Talk:Leonard Peltier

2012-12-27T01:29:35Z

177.133.114.160: Peltier as a source about his trial?

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==Peltier as a source about his trial?==

Several claims about the trial only cite Peltier interviews, obviously he is a biased questionable source regarding this topic. Unless other sources are provided or a more expienced editor over rules me I will delete them. Also many of the links are dead.

[[Special:Contributions/177.133.114.160|177.133.114.160]] ([[User talk:177.133.114.160|talk]]) 01:29, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

== False information about death ==

Information is appearing that is false regarding the subject's death. Peltier's death did not occur today according to any news sources. Therefore I am removing the following information: "This is what has been removed: "On November 26, 2009, at the age of 65, Peltier died in prison of smallpox. He had contracted smallpox from a blanket given to him by his captors."

[[User:Kitschqueen|Kitschqueen]] ([[User talk:Kitschqueen|talk]]) 04:06, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
: yes, an obvious thoughtless addition. ([[User:MartinGugino | Martin]] | [[User_talk:MartinGugino | talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MartinGugino|contribs]] 02:49, 13 April 2012 (UTC))

== Doubts about the fairness of Peltier's legal proceedings ==

Does anyone else have an issue with a section that so dominates the article uses such definitive language and is entirely sourced to Peltier's website and one radio program in which his defense lawyers were interviewed? [[User:JLBertzel|JLBertzel]] ([[User talk:JLBertzel|talk]]) 16:58, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, I am also concerned about such sources. I have read other accounts about the controversy, but using Peltier's website as the main source weakens the article. In addition, there is too much reliance on editor(s) making their own selections of material from trial testimony, which is a primary source and an action comprising Original Research (OR). All such material can be removed as improperly sourced. Editors are supposed to rely on published secondary sources, preferably in peer-reviewed or otherwise established reliable sources. Given the high visibility of this case, it has doubtless been written about by scholars as well as activists, and needs better sourcing.[[User:Parkwells|Parkwells]] ([[User talk:Parkwells|talk]]) 19:44, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

::Poor Bears affidavit, used as part of the Canadian extradition papers, was false, and little doubt that someone at the FBI had to know it. She was not allowed to testify at trial. Few trials are certain, and this trial has lots of non-judicial motivations, aside from the unthinkable: did a state of war exist between the FBI and AIM?([[User:MartinGugino | Martin]] | [[User_talk:MartinGugino | talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MartinGugino|contribs]] 02:59, 13 April 2012 (UTC))

:::The other item is that that the FBI, "despite its claim to the contrary, could and did conduct a firing pin test on the Wichita AR-15, the weapon attributed to Peltier and which was alleged to have caused Agests Williams' and Coler's fatal injuries. That test proved conclusively that the shell casing offered into evidence at Peltier's 1977 tial was not fired by the Witchita AR-15. This means only one thing... Peltier did not shoot the agents." Quote taken from Ghost Rider Roads isbn 978-1469905716, reprint of a letter to the Toronto Sun. ([[User:MartinGugino | Martin]] | [[User_talk:MartinGugino | talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MartinGugino|contribs]] 07:39, 13 April 2012 (UTC))
::::Martin, are you proposing that we should somehow take into serious consideration a quote from "a letter to the Toronto Sun"? [[User:Hammersbach|Hammersbach]] ([[User talk:Hammersbach|talk]]) 21:57, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

== The boots and POV re: assault and robbery ==

Regarding Jimmy eagle: Is it true that "He was wanted for questioning in connection with the recent assault and robbery"? Isn't this an inflation of the charges? Were there charges, at this point? The next sentence says the conflict was an altercation between an AIM teenager, Jimmy Eagle, and a local, and some missing boots. This seems pretty minor, not a topic for the FBI, even if they thought the boots crossed state lines, compared to the outstanding unsolved murders, barely noted. Why are two FBI agents working a missing boots case? Is each agent after one boot? By 1PM there are hundreds of people at the scene. Where did they come from? Missing from this part of the story is the notion that Calvin Jumping Bull's property was the location of the AIM camp; where AIM hung out. The FBI was certainly concerned and worried about the AIM movement, and so would be focusing surveilance on this location. This was the period of COINTELLPRO. The camp was described as 'strongly defended', fortified, so driving in there in speeding cars chasing a red pickup is hardly a run of the mill "innocent" pursuit, hot on the trail of a pair of missing boots.

Or- what is really going on here?
Note the case is called RESMURS (Reservation Murders), but it concerns the two killed FBI agents only. The dozens of murders that took place on the reservation, to natives, do not register. ([[User:MartinGugino | Martin]] | [[User_talk:MartinGugino | talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MartinGugino|contribs]] 13:55, 12 April 2012 (UTC))

== Archiving without consensus ==

Someone set up this talk page to be regularly archived without any consensus on this board, which is against Wikipedia policy. As a consequence, there are now 38 very valuable conversations hidden away in [[Talk:Leonard Peltier/Archive 1]]. The bot was set up to archive all threads inactive for over 90 days. I have removed the coding at the top of this Talk page that activated the bot, so hopefully it will stop. If not, please notify an admin so that they can turn off the bot; thanks. Also, I recommend that any relevant thread from the archives be restored to this talk page. This is a highly controversial article, and information discussing it should not be censored or hidden away. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 10:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
:archiving of stale discussions is completely in line with wikipedia policy and does not require a prior consensus making process. All the information in the archives is readily available to anyone who wants to read it it is neither censored or hidden away.[[User:Maunus|·ʍaunus]]·[[User talk:Maunus|snunɐw·]] 21:22, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

::Instructions on automatic archiving clearly read in a highlighted notification box: "'''Before setting up automatic archiving on an article's talk page, please establish a consensus that archiving is really needed there.'''" [[User:MiszaBot/Archive HowTo]]. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 06:11, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Why is this Talk Page so short? I am new to this controversy. It seems the source of pressure against a more usual course of events in prosecution and subsequent legal redress and against political pardon is very narrow and very highly placed for this case. On the open and public Wikipedia forum, people with what kind of approach and tone support incarceration? Does the evolution of this Wikipedia page show the odd kind of contributions I have seen in the Bradley Birkenfeld [[Talk:Brad_Birkenfeld|(Talk page)]] and USB bank pages? I am interested in the Talk page because it is a window into the society in which I live. I'll go dig. I don't understand why this Talk Page needs such a haircut. 
[[User:Jerry-va|Jerry-va]] ([[User talk:Jerry-va|talk]]) 15:04, 13 December 2012 (UTC)jerry-va

:It's a pretty standard undertaking for any page with a lengthy amount of discussion. I'm not sure why it's such a problem.--[[User:Chimino|Chimino]] ([[User talk:Chimino|talk]]) 21:38, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

== Popular Culture--Music ==

Perhaps an appropriate addition for the Music sub heading of the Pop Culture section would be the Goats, a highly politicized American rap outfit from the 90s who have some tracks about and mentioning Peltier? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/142.162.217.94|142.162.217.94]] ([[User talk:142.162.217.94|talk]]) 21:17, 26 October 2012 (UTC) 

== Location of Cole's Pistol? ==
The article currently lists two separate discoveries of Agent Cole's .38 revolver: once under the seat in an RV, and once in a burned-out station wagon. Which is it? It is also problematic that neither account is sourced.

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Talk:Leonard Peltier