Wikipedia - User contributions [en]

User talk:Duff man2007

2007-09-16T06:31:06Z

Duff man2007: /* You can't peramently block me for remoting conent that's not needed */ new section

{{sockpuppet|Zephead999}}

== September 2007 ==
{{{icon|[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] }}}Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did to [[:Led Zeppelin]]. Your edits appear to constitute [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Thank you. [[User:IrisKawling|IrisKawling]] 03:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

{{{icon|[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] }}}Please stop. If you continue to [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia{{{{{subst|}}}#if:Halo 3|, as you did to [[:Halo 3]]}}, you ''will'' be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing. {{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{2|}}}|{{{2}}}|}} [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

{{{icon|[[Image:Stop hand nuvola.svg|left|30px]] }}}This is your '''last warning'''. The next time you [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia, as you did to [[:Halo 3]], you '''will''' be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing.  [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:19, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

{{{icon|[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] }}}Please stop. If you continue to [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia, as you did to [[:Shut Up and Drive (Rihanna song)]], you ''will'' be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing.  [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:34, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

{{{icon|[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] }}}Please [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|do not attack]] other editors{{{{{subst|}}}#if:Halo 3|, which you did here: [[Talk:Halo 3]]}}. If you continue, you '''will''' be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing Wikipedia. {{{{{subst|}}}#if:Your general lack of respect for editors has gone too far. I'm not sure why you haven't been blocked already.|Your general lack of respect for editors has gone too far. I'm not sure why you haven't been blocked already.|}} [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== SOS and ANY OTHER ARTICLE you edit ==
Guess what buddy? Wikipedia has policies. Statements MUST BE SOURCED RELIABLY. "Go watch the VMAs" is not a reliable source. Guess what? American VMAs don't play on my television... why? Because I'm not in the US. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

:EVERYTHING on this encyclopedia are to be sourced. That's what fact tags are for. Please don't remove them again as it constitutes vandalism. And refrain from being [[WP:CIVIL|uncivil]]. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

::I believe she played at the VMAs, but that's not the point. The point is the tag was there for a reason. Do not remove fact tags unless you are replacing them with a source. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:44, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Your way is about to get you blocked. You have a blatant disregard for wikipolicy. You do not [[wp:own|own]] anything on this encyclopedia and things are not "your way". [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

::::Alright, glad to see you took a turn away from vandalism. Thanks for helping with cleanup. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

:: As a head's up: [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Duff man2007]] [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==Blocked==
{{3RR5|Halo 3}}
Note: Please don't repeatedly add non-encyclopedic material to articles. When there's a dispute, don't keep putting the material back in, take it to the talk page and discuss it. '''[[User:Akradecki|AKRadecki]]'''[[User_talk:Akradecki|Speaketh]] 05:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Akradecki, please un-ban me ==

I did nothing wrong. I had to quickly add that back in becuse they kept on removing it. Infact, if you check I provided links backing up the info that I provided, and they still felt compelled to remove it. I was even discussing this on the talk page, and they still removed it. Again, please un-ban me. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 05:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Absolutely not. What do you mean you did nothing wrong? You really need to take a few minutes and ''read our policies''. You've been told this before. We have rules, here, and you're expected to follow them. In this case, it's the [[WP:3RR|3 Revert Rule]]. I'll count [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=prev&oldid=157265714 this] diff as your original, just because I don't want to go back farther. So, the reverts were: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157270105], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157272572], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157293655], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157294996], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157297321], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157299797], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157301311], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=prev&oldid=157303288], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157304620], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157306107], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157307572], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157308381], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157309338], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157310604], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157311179], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157311714], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157312685], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157313144], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Halo_3&diff=next&oldid=157314030]. ''That's an astounding 19 reverts!'' And you claim to have done nothing wrong? You can consider yourself lucky to have gotten off with just a 24 hour block. There's already been allegations of sockpuppetry...if I find you doing that to avoid this block, you'll be blocked indefinitely. Take some time off, ''read our policies'', and be ready to come back and write ''encyclopedic'' content and live by our rules. Oh, and by the way, a [[leek]] is a vegetable. I doubt there's a whole lot of them on Ebay. Maybe you were thinking of a [[leak]], meaning something that gets out of a hole? '''[[User:Akradecki|AKRadecki]]'''[[User_talk:Akradecki|Speaketh]] 05:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== AKRadeckiSpeaketh, you gotta be joking me. ==

Like I said, I wen to the discussion page and talked about it first. And they STILL got rid of the info without even talking about it on the discussion page for at least 15 or so min. So what was I supposed to do? If I did not do anything they probably never wuold have said anything on the discussion page. So then they wanted some valid sources, I provided a valid soruce, and also told them there are plenty more on the internet. They STILL did not believe me, and simply called it a "hoax" even where there was visual proof it was leaked, AND was provided a link to the Halo 3 page on Ebay. And *I* am the one that gets banned? Do I really need to tell you how asinine that is? Like I said, please un-ban me and ban them. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 14:17, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Please read [[WP:CONSENSUS]]. The process works like this: you add text. If it's contested, you go and propose it and discuss it on the talk page. ''You don't add it back in until there is a consensus to do so.'' Some things that are considered during the discussion: Is the proposed content significant and notable, as we define notability? Is it material worthy of inclusion in an encylopedia (remember, we're not a web forum or chat room)? Is it written in an encyclopedic tone? Does it have sources, and do those sources meet our policies, [[WP:V]] and [[WP:RS]]? After the discussion and debate, when everyone agrees that the material should be included, then and only then do you add it back in. Doing things the way you did it was a blatant disregard for our ruls, was rude and out of line. The best thing for you to do is apologize, let it go, and move on. In the greater scheme of things, the info you were trying to add simply didn't add substantive content...in other words, in five years, no one's going to care that a beta copy was leaked a couple of weeks before the formal launch - that kind of material just doesn't belong in an encyclopedia; chat room, forum, sure, but encyclopedia, no. '''[[User:Akradecki|AKRadecki]]'''[[User_talk:Akradecki|Speaketh]] 15:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

{{{icon|[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] }}}Welcome, and thank you for experimenting with the page [[:John Lennon]] on Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]] or removed. Please take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome page]] to learn more about contributing to [[Wikipedia|our encyclopedia]]. If you would like to experiment further, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Thank you. [[User:Liverpool Scouse|Liverpool Scouse]] 19:03, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

==Speedy deletion of [[:Image:JohnLennonWhiteAlbum.jpg]]==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|32px|left]] A tag has been placed on [[:Image:JohnLennonWhiteAlbum.jpg]], requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia per [[WP:CSD#i4|CSD i4]].

Under the [[WP:CSD#General_criteria|criteria for speedy deletion]], articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time. Please [[Wikipedia:Your first article|see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as an appropriate article]], and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is appropriate, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add <code>{{tl|hangon}}</code> on the top of the article and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion. To do this, add <code>{{tl|hangon}}</code> on the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag) and leave a note on the page's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. [[User:Liverpool Scouse|Liverpool Scouse]] 19:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
:This image was deleted because a) it did not have any licensing information, b) it is a non-free image with no fair-use rationale and c) it was previously deleted because of available free images. The first two criteria also apply to the Robert Plant image, which also was deleted. Please see our guidelines on [[Wikipedia:Non-free content|Non-free content]]. '''[[User:Akradecki|AKRadecki]]'''[[User_talk:Akradecki|Speaketh]] 19:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

==Your edits to [[Jimmy Wales]]==
{{{icon|[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] }}}Please do not delete content from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to [[:Jimmy Wales]]. Your edits do not appear to be constructive and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment, please use [[Wikipedia:Sandbox]] for test edits. Thank you. [[User:Tiptoety|Tiptoety]] 01:22, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

{{{icon|[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px]] }}}Please stop. If you continue to blank out (or delete portions of) page content, templates or other materials from Wikipedia{{{{{subst|}}}#if:Jimmy Wales|, as you did to [[:Jimmy Wales]]}}, you ''will'' be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing. {{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{2|}}}|{{{2}}}|}}

== WHY EXACTLY WAS I BLOCKED? ==

There was NOTHING controvesial about Bomis, so I deleted it. un-block me please. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 05:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

:You were blocked indefinitely for repeated vandalism and content removal. Please see [[Special:Contributions/Duff_man2007|all of your contribs for more insight on why you were blocked. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 05:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

== You can't peramently block me for remoting conent that's not needed ==

I removed unapproiate content, and i get banned? Past content has nothing to do with my current ban. this is an unjust ban, now un-ban me please. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 06:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Duff man2007

2007-09-16T05:17:09Z

Duff man2007: /* WHY EXACTLY WAS I BLOCKED? */ new section

Jimmy Wales

2007-09-16T05:12:14Z

Duff man2007: /* Bomis */

{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}
{{Infobox_Person
|name=Jimmy Donal "Jimbo" Wales
|image=Jimmy-wales-frankfurt2005-alih01.jpg
|caption=
|birth_date=August [[1966]]
|birth_place=[[Huntsville, Alabama]], [[United States|U.S.]]
|occupation=President of [[Wikia, Inc.]]; Board member and Chair Emeritus of the [[Wikimedia Foundation]]
|spouse=Christine<ref name="timesonline">{{cite web|url = http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/united_states/article1264098.ece?token=null&offset=0|title = Curiousity filled the biggest textbook in the world|accessdate = 2007-08-24|last = Doran|first = James|date = 2006-12-23|work = [[Times Online]]|publisher = Times Newspapers Ltd.}}</ref>
|children=Kira<ref name="timesonline"/>
|website=[http://blog.jimmywales.com/ Jimmy Wales - Free knowledge for free minds]
}}
'''Jimmy Donal "Jimbo" Wales''' (born August [[1966]] in [[Huntsville, Alabama|Huntsville]], [[Alabama]]<ref name="dob">Rogoway, M. ([[July 27]], [[2007]]) [http://blog.oregonlive.com/siliconforest/2007/07/on_wikipedia_and_its_founders.html "Wikipedia & its founder disagree on his birth date,"] ''Silicon Forest'' ''([[The Oregonian]])'' accessed [[August 8]], [[2007]]</ref><ref name="DOB">Wales, J. ([[August 8]], [[2007]]) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=149942464&oldid=149940473 "More birthdate nonsense"] ''User talk:Jimbo Wales'' accessed [[August 8]], [[2007]]</ref>) is an [[United States|American]] [[Internet]] [[entrepreneur]] known for his role in founding [[Wikipedia]]<ref name="Dan_Mitchell">{{cite news|first=Dan|last=Mitchell|title=Insider Editing at Wikipedia|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/technology/24online.ready.html?ex=1293080400&en=431aff478b00239e&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss|publisher=[[New York Times]]|date=[[2005-12-24]]|accessdate=2007-03-26}}</ref><ref name="2002 Wikipedia press release">[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Press_releases/January_2002 Free Encyclopedia Project, Wikipedia, Creates 20,000 Articles in a Year] Wikipedia press release January 15, 2002 "The founders of Wikipedia are Internet entrepreneur Jimmy Wales and philosopher Larry Sanger."</ref><ref name="Larry_Sanger_Springs_Citizendium">{{cite news|first=Brian|last=Bergstein|title=Sanger says he co-started Wikipedia|url=http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2980046|work=[[ABC News]]|publisher=[[Associated Press]]|date=[[2007-03-25]]|accessdate=2007-03-26|quote=The nascent Web encyclopedia Citizendium springs from Larry Sanger, a philosophy Ph.D. who counts himself as a co-founder of Wikipedia, the site he now hopes to usurp. The claim does not seem particularly controversial—Sanger has long been cited as a co-founder. Yet the other founder, Jimmy Wales, isn't happy about it.}}—Brian Bergstein.</ref> and other [[wiki]]-related projects, including the charitable organization [[Wikimedia Foundation]], and the for-profit company [[Wikia|Wikia, Inc.]]<ref name="2.0">{{cite news|first=Tom|last=McNichol|title=Wikipedia founder hunts for gold|url=http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2007/03/01/8401010/index.htm|work=[[Business 2.0]]|publisher=[[CNN]]|date=[[2007-03-01]]|accessdate=2007-03-10}}</ref>

==Personal life==
Wales' father worked as a [[grocery store]] manager while his mother, Doris, and his grandmother, Erma, ran a small [[private school]], in the tradition of the [[one-room school]]house, where Wales received his [[education]]. Most of the time there were four children in his grade so the school grouped the first through fourth grade students together and the fifth through eighth grade students together.<ref name="qanda">{{cite web|title=Q&A: Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia founder|author=[[Brian Lamb|Lamb, Brian]]|url=http://qanda.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1042|work=[[C-SPAN]]|date=[[2005-09-25]]|accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref> In his adult life, Wales enjoys sailing and is an outdoor enthusiast.<ref name="fastcompany">{{cite web|title="Why Is This Man Smiling?"|url=http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/114/features-why-is-this-man-smiling.html|work=[[Fast Company (magazine)|Fast Company]]|date=March 2007|accessdate=2007-05-02}}"Wales revealed that Wikia, his for-profit Silicon Valley startup, was working on Search Wikia, which he touted as "the search engine that changes everything … Just as Wikipedia revolutionized how we think about knowledge and the encyclopedia, we have a chance now to revolutionize how we think about search."</ref>

==Education==
After eighth grade, Wales attended [[Randolph School]], a [[university-preparatory school]] in [[Huntsville, Alabama|Huntsville]], [[Alabama]]. Wales has said that the school was expensive for his family, but that education was regarded as important. "Education was always a passion in my household… you know, the very traditional approach to knowledge and learning and establishing that as a base for a good life."<ref name="qanda"/> He received his [[Bachelor's degree]] in [[finance]] from [[Auburn University]] and started with the [[Doctor of Philosophy|Ph.D.]] finance program at the [[University of Alabama]], where he left with a [[Master's degree|Master's]] in finance.<ref name="qanda"/> After that, he took courses offered in the Ph.D. finance program at [[Indiana University Bloomington|Indiana University]]. He taught at both universities during his postgraduate studies, but did not write the [[thesis|doctoral dissertation]] required to earn a Ph.D.<ref name="qanda"/>

==Career==
From 1994–2000, Wales served as research director at Chicago Options Associates, a [[futures contract|futures]] and [[stock option|options]] [[stock trader|trader]] in [[Chicago, Illinois|Chicago]].<ref name="qanda"/> By "speculating on interest rate and foreign-currency fluctuations" he had soon earned enough to "support himself and his wife for the rest of their lives", according to Daniel Pink of [[Wired Magazine]].<ref name=bookstopshere>{{cite web|url=http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.03/wiki.html?pg=3|title=The Book Stops Here|date=[[2005-03-13]]|accessdate=2006-10-09|publisher=[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]|last=Pink|first=Daniel H.}}</ref> During this time one of the projects Wales undertook was the creation of a [[dot-com company|dot-com]] erotic search engine, [[Bomis]], that later helped in the initial funding for Wikipedia. The nature of Bomis is disputed—Wales describes Bomis as a "guy-oriented search engine" that often sold erotic materials similar in nature to "[[Maxim (magazine)|Maxim]]" magazine's [[non-nude photography|scantily clad women]]. Wales disputes the statement that Bomis dealt in "soft-core pornography," preferring the term "adult content."<ref name="wirednews">{{cite web|last=Hansen|first=Evan|title=Wikipedia Founder Edits Own Bio|work=[[Wired News]]|publisher=[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]|url=http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,69880,00.html|accessdate=2006-02-14}}</ref>

In a 2007 interview Wales said that in 1999 he had a student design software for a top-down design multilingual encyclopedia website; however, it was too slow to be usable.<ref name="utopia">[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16926950/site/newsweek/ In Search of an Online Utopia] [[2007-02-01]].</ref>

In March 2000, he started a peer-reviewed, open-content encyclopedia, [[Nupedia]] ("the free encyclopedia"), and hired [[Larry Sanger]] to be its editor-in-chief.<ref name="qanda"/>

===Wikipedia and Wikimedia Foundation===
[[Image:P1030255.jpg|thumb|Wales speaking at [[Wikimania]] 2007]]
{{main|History of Wikipedia}}
After [[Larry Sanger]] publicly proposed on [[January 10]], [[2001]] the idea of using a wiki to create an encyclopedia, Wales installed wiki software on a server and authorized Sanger to pursue the project under his supervision. Sanger dubbed the project "Wikipedia" and, with Wales, laid down the founding principles, content and established an Internet-based community of contributors during that year. Wikipedia was initially intended to be a [[wiki]]-based site for collaboration on early encyclopedic content for submission to [[Nupedia]], but Wikipedia's rapid growth quickly overshadowed Nupedia's development.<ref name="2.0"/> Sanger worked on and promoted both the Nupedia and Wikipedia projects until [[Bomis]] discontinued funding for his position in February 2002; Sanger resigned as editor-in-chief of Nupedia and as "chief organizer" of Wikipedia on March 1.<ref>[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/My_resignation--Larry_Sanger My resignation—Larry Sanger] [[2002-03-01]]. Retrieved on [[2006-10-19]].</ref><ref>[http://news.com.com/Wikipedias+co-founder+eyes+a+Digital+Universe/2008-1082_3-6011487.html Wikipedia's co-founder eyes a Digital Universe] [[2006-01-06]].</ref> Wales has said that he initially was so worried with the concept that he would wake up in the middle of the night, wanting to check the site for vandalism.<ref name="utopia"/> In mid-2003, Wales set up the [[Wikimedia Foundation]],<ref name="wmfbylaws">[http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_bylaws Wikimedia foundation bylaws].</ref> a [[non-profit organization]]<ref name=BBCTech>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4450052.stm BBC.co.uk. Technology. Open media to connect communities.] 20 November 2005</ref> based in [[St. Petersburg, Florida]], to support Wikipedia and its younger sibling projects. The Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation consists of seven directors as of May 2007.<ref name=WMFD>[http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Board_of_Trustees Wikimedia Foundation.] Board of Trustees.</ref> In 2004 in interview with [[Slashdot]] Wales has explained his motivations about Wikipedia, "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing."<ref>{{cite web|author=Wales, Jimmy|title="Wikipedia Founder Jimmy Wales Replies"|publisher=[[Slashdot]]|url=http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/1351230|date=[[2004-07-28]]|accessdate=2006-06-07}}</ref>

===Wikia===
{{main|Wikia}}
Wales also later went on to co-found, with [[Angela Beesley]], the for-profit company [[Wikia|Wikia, Inc.]] in 2004.<ref name="2.0"/> Wikia is a [[wiki farm]], in that it is a collection of different individual [[wiki]]s on different subjects, all hosted on the same website.<ref name="WikiaMain">[http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia Wikia.] Main Page. 12 May 2007.</ref> One of the proposed services of Wikia is Wikia Search, with which Wales means to upset [[Google]], a service he says produces excessive "spam and useless crap."<ref name="fastcompany"/> Wales emphasizes the inner workings of the search engine will be "transparent." He went on to say, "This is fundamental, basic information about the world. It needs to be neutral, and there needs to be an accountable, transparent, public dialogue about how it's created." He further stated, "I trust Google reasonably well, but that's like saying you have a favorite politician. I trust this politician, but I still want the city council to meet publicly. I still want a certain transparency in how government is run, even if you trust the person who's in charge now."<ref name="fastcompany"/>

===Media appearances and honors===
[[Image:Jimbo-Frankfurt-skyline.jpeg|thumb|175px|upright|Jimmy Wales on the Holbeinsteg bridge in [[Frankfurt|Frankfurt am Main]], [[Germany]], during a shooting break of a documentary film on Wikipedia created by French-German TV station [[arte]].]] Wales was appointed a fellow of the [[Berkman Center for Internet & Society]] at [[Harvard Law School]] in 2005. On [[October 3]] [[2005]], according to a press release,<ref>{{cite news|title=Wikipedia Founder Joins Socialtext Board|date=[[2005-10-03]]|publisher=[[Socialtext]]|url=http://www.socialtext.com/weblog/051003wikiwales.html}}</ref> Wales joined the [[Board of Directors]] of [[Socialtext]], a provider of wiki technology to businesses. In 2006, he joined the Board of Directors of the non-profit organization [[Creative Commons]].<ref>{{cite news|title=Creative Commons Adds Two New Board Members|date=[[2006-03-30]]|publisher=[[Creative Commons]]|url=http://creativecommons.org/press-releases/entry/5840}}</ref>

Wales was the first person listed in the "Scientists & Thinkers" section of the [[May 8]] [[2006]] special edition of ''[[Time (magazine)|Time]]'' ("The lives and ideas of the world's most influential people"), listing [[Time 100|100 influential people]].<ref name=influence>{{cite news|url=http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1187286,00.html|title=Jimmy Wales: The (Proud) Amateur Who Created Wikipedia|date=[[2006-05-08]]|publisher=[[Time (magazine)|Time]]|accessdate=2006-04-30|last=Anderson|first=Chris}}</ref>

Wales received an [[honorary degree]] from [[Knox College]] on [[June 3]] [[2006]]. The [[Electronic Frontier Foundation]] awarded him a Pioneer Award on [[May 3]], [[2006]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/14632|title=EFF Honors Craigslist, Gigi Sohn, and Jimmy Wales with Pioneer Awards|date=[[2006-04-28]]|publisher=Kansas City infoZine News|accessdate=2006-06-05}}</ref>

Wales appeared on [[PBS]]' [[Charlie Rose]] on [[October 6]] [[2006]]<ref>[http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5184822358876183858&#2310s Video of Jimmy Wales on Charlie Rose] October 4, 2006</ref> and was nominated for [[Beard Liberation Front|Beard of the Year]] 2006.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tms/2006/12/beard_of_the_year.shtml|title=Beard of the Year|accessdate=2007-07-25}}</ref>

On [[November 4]], [[2006]], Wales appeared in the "Not My Job" segment of ''[[Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!]]'', a humorous news-quiz show on [[National Public Radio]]. The topic was "It must be True, I read it on Wikipedia". The three questions posed, drawn from obscure content on Wikipedia, were answered incorrectly.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=35&prgDate=11-04-2006&view=storyview|title="This Week's Show 4 November 2006"|Accessdate=2006-11-10|date=[[2006-11-04]]}}</ref>

''[[Forbes]]'' magazine ranked him twelfth in its first annual "The Web Celebs 25."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.forbes.com/2007/01/23/internet-fame-celebrity-tech-media-cx_de_06webceleb_0123intro.html|title=The Web Celeb 25|first=David M.|last=Ewalt|date=2007-01-23|accessdate=2007-04-23}}</ref>

Wales was featured in the [[April 2]] [[2007]] issue of ''Time'' magazine in the article "10 Questions: Jimmy Wales." He answered ten questions culled from ''Time'''s readership. He was the second to be interviewed in this fashion, after Chris Rock, as previously the questions were composed by a ''Time'' staff member. In his replies, he acknowledged the limitations of Wikipedia, while defending its usefulness.<ref name="TimeMagazine">
{{cite news
|first=
|last=
|title=10 Questions: Jimmy Wales
|url=http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1601491,00.html
|publisher=[[Time (magazine)|Time Magazine]]
|date=March 21, 2007
|accessdate=2007-03-24
| quote = The key is to look at the quality of articles. The quality of Wikipedia today compared with three years ago is a dramatic improvement. But people do need to be aware of how it is created and edited so they can treat it with the appropriate caution.}}—Jimmy Wales.</ref>

On [[April 10]], [[2007]] the Annual Meeting of the Friends of the Spartanburg County Public Libraries (in South Carolina and hosted by [[Converse College]]) had Jimmy Wales as a special guest speaker.<ref name="CC_Apr10">{{cite speech |author=Wales, Jimmy |authorlink= |date = [[April 10]], 2007 |location = [[Converse College]], [[Spartanburg, South Carolina|Spartanburg]], [[South Carolina]]}}</ref> A humorous event occurred when an introductory speaker (Dr. Mark Monson) misspoke while presenting an award and said “gynecological” rather than “genealogical.” Later, during a question-and-answer period, Wales was asked by a school-aged child what Wales’s favorite article was that a third grader could read. Wales (after some consideration) said that [[Inherently funny word]] would probably be the case.<ref name="CC_Apr10"/> He later cautioned that a parent may want to check on this before sending their child to the site. However, perhaps a new word will be added to this article because the questioner after a few attempts at pronunciation asked if “genie-whatever that was” was one of those words, and if it was the study of genies. Wales said that this question should be answered by his parents and continued with the forum.<ref name="CC_Apr10"/>

On [[April 26]] [[2007]] Wales had a run-in with [[The Chaser]], an [[Australia]]n satire group. He was used in the first occurrence of the "Mr. Ten Questions" segment in Season 2 of [[The Chaser's War on Everything]], in which a "reporter" asks the victim ten questions of variable relevance without pausing for a response until all questions are asked. Wales managed to score a 4 out of 10, however some of the answers did not seem to match the questions being asked.<ref name="brisbane">{{cite news
|first=Asher
|last=Moses
|title=Chaser's war on Wikipedia founder
|url=http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/technology/chasers-war-on-wikipedia-founder/2007/04/26/1177459849504.html
|publisher=[[Brisbanetimes.com.au]]
|date=April 26, 2007
|accessdate=2007-04-29
|quote=Given Wales's widely publicised goal of giving "every single person on the planet free access to the sum of all human knowledge", Hansen evidently thought Wales would be a prime candidate for ''The Chaser's'' "Mr Ten Questions" segment.}}</ref>

==Controversy==

===Wikipedia biography===
{{main|History of Wikipedia#Conceptual origins|l1=Origins of Wikipedia}}

In late 2005, Wales was criticized for editing his own biography page on Wikipedia. In particular, [[Rogers Cadenhead]] drew attention to logs showing that Wales had [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&diff=26702273&oldid=26658959 removed] references to Sanger as the co-founder of Wikipedia.<ref name="cadenhead"/><ref>{{cite web|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&diff=29849184&oldid=29772366|title=Wikipedia diff showing modification by Mr. Wales|accessdate=2006-10-15}}</ref> [[Larry Sanger]] commented that "Having seen edits like this, it does seem that Jimmy is attempting to rewrite history. But this is a futile process because in our brave new world of transparent activity and maximum communication, the truth will out."<ref name="wirednews"/><ref name="timesonline">{{cite web|url=http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-1948005,00.html|author=Rhys Blakely|accessdate=2006-10-15|title=Wikipedia founder edits himself|publisher=Times Online}}</ref><ref name="cadenhead">{{cite web|url=http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/news/2828/wikipedia-founder-looks-out-number-1|author=Rogers Cadenhead|accessdate=2006-10-15|title=Wikipedia Founder Looks Out for Number 1}}</ref> Wales was also observed to have modified references to Bomis in a way that was characterized as downplaying the sexual nature of some of his former company's products.<ref name="wirednews"/> An article in the [[July 31]] [[2006]] issue of ''[[The New Yorker]]'' magazine<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060731fa_fact|title=en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&diff=29849184&oldid=29772366|title=Wikipedia diff showing modification by Mr. Wales|accessdate=2006-10-15}}</ref> expanded on this topic:

{{cquote|Even Wales has been caught airbrushing his Wikipedia entry—eighteen times<ref>{{cite web|url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?site=en.wikipedia.org&username=Jimbo_Wales&site=en.wikipedia.org|title=Wales' edit count for various articles on Wikipedia|accessdate=2007-07-25}}</ref> in the past year. He is particularly sensitive about references to the porn traffic on his Web portal. "Adult content" or "glamour photography" are the terms that he prefers, though, as one user pointed out on the site, they are perhaps not the most precise way to describe lesbian strip-poker threesomes. (In January, Wales agreed to a compromise: "erotic photography.")}}

In both cases, Wales argued that his modifications were solely intended to improve the accuracy of the content.<ref name="wirednews"/> He apologized for editing his own biography, which is a practice generally frowned upon at Wikipedia. Wales said in the ''Wired'' interview, "People should not do it, including me. I wish I had not done it."<ref name="wirednews"/>

Wales continues to assert that he is the sole founder of Wikipedia,<ref name="preposterous"/> which he bases on the specific fact that Sanger was his employee.<ref name="uniontribune">{{cite news|url=http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20041206/news_mz1b6encyclo.html|author =Jonathan Sidener|title =Everyone's Encyclopedia|accessdate=2006-10-15|publisher=San Diego Union Tribune}}</ref> In 2006, Wales told ''[[The Boston Globe]]'' that "it's preposterous" to call Sanger the co-founder;<ref name="preposterous">{{cite news| first=Janet |last=Knott |title=Bias, sabotage haunt Wikipedia's free world|url=http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2006/02/12/bias_sabotage_haunt_wikipedias_free_world/?page=4| publisher=[[The Boston Globe]]|date=[[2006-02-12]]|accessdate=2006-04-12}}</ref> however, Sanger was identified as a co-founder of Wikipedia at least as early as September 2001<ref name="sanger-NYTimes">{{cite news
|author=Peter Meyers
|title=Fact-Driven? Collegial? This Site Wants You
|url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9800E5D6123BF933A1575AC0A9679C8B63&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fSubjects%2fC%2fComputer%20Software
|publisher=[[New York Times]]
|accessdate=2006-10-15
|date=[[2001-09-20]]}}"I can start an article that will consist of one paragraph, and then a real expert will come along and add three paragraphs and clean up my one paragraph," said Larry Sanger of Las Vegas, who founded Wikipedia with Mr. Wales.</ref> and referred to himself that way as early as January 2002.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_and_why_it_matters&oldid=149626|author=[[Larry Sanger|Sanger, Larry]]|title=What Wikipedia is and why it matters|accessdate=2006-04-12}}</ref> In addition to developing Wikipedia in its early phase and guiding the project, Sanger is also responsible for the idea of applying the wiki concept to the building of a free encyclopedia. It is undisputed that he also coined the name of the project. He nevertheless ascribed the broader idea to Wales: "To be clear, the idea of an open source, collaborative encyclopedia, open to contribution by ordinary people, was entirely Jimmy's, not mine, and the funding was entirely by Bomis. (…) The actual development of this encyclopedia was the task he gave me to work on."<ref>{{cite news|author=[[Larry Sanger|Sanger, Larry]]|title=The Early History of Nupedia and Wikipedia: A Memoir|publisher=[[Slashdot]]|url=http://features.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/18/164213|date=[[2005-04-18]]|accessdate=2005-04-18}}</ref> In response to Wales' revisionism,<ref name="Dan_Mitchell"/> Sanger posted on his personal webpage a collection of evidence about his role in founding Wikipedia by referencing earlier versions of Wikipedia pages, citing Wikipedia press releases, and linking to early media coverage, all of which described Wales and Sanger as the co-founders.<ref name="SangerLinks">
{{cite web
|url=http://www.larrysanger.org/roleinwp.html
|title=My role in Wikipedia (links)
|author=Larry Sanger
|work=larrysanger.org
|accessdate=2007-04-21}}</ref> In a discussion with Brian Bergstein of the Associated Press, Wales said: "When you write this up please do not uncritically repeat Sanger's absurd claim to be the co-founder of Wikipedia." He added: "I am not bent out of shape about it. The facts are on my side, which is why I bother so little about it."<ref name="Larry_Sanger_Springs_Citizendium"/>

===Birthdate===

Wales had previously edited his entries on Wikipedia and on the Wikimedia Foundation's website in 2004 to indicate his date of birth is [[August 7]], [[1966]].<ref name="originalbirthday">
{{cite news
|first=Jimbo
|last=Wales
|title=Edit by Jimbo Wales at Wikipedia
|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=5987088
|work=
|publisher=[[Wikipedia]]
|date=September 18, 2004
|accessdate=2007-08-08
|quote=}}</ref><ref name="original_birthday">
{{cite news
|first=Jimbo
|last=Wales
|title=Edit by Jimbo Wales at Wikimedia Foundation
|url=http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Board_of_Trustees&diff=prev&oldid=406
|work=
|publisher=[[Wikimedia Foundation]]
|date=September 18, 2004
|accessdate=2007-08-08
|quote=}}</ref> He also made a statement in 2006 in which he wrote in part: "My date of birth is not August 8, 1966."<ref name="DOBnot080866">
{{cite news
|title=Wales claim birthdate is not August 8, 1966
|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AJimmy_Wales&diff=63246911&oldid=63223187
|publisher=[[Wikipedia]]
|date=July 11, 2006
|accessdate=2007-08-12}}</ref> The ''[[Encyclopædia Britannica]]'', [[Current Biography]], and [[Marquis Who's Who|Who’s Who in America]] support this statement.<ref name="dob">{{cite web|title=Jimmy Wales |url=http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9438001/Jimmy-Wales Britannica Book of the Year, 2007|accessdate=2007-07-25}}</ref><ref name=dob1">{{cite book|title=Current Biography Yearbook 2006 - Publisher: H. W. Wilson (February 28, 2007) ISBN 978-0824210748}}</ref><ref name="dob2">{{cite book|title=Who's Who In America: Diamond Edition - Publisher: Marquis Who's Who; 60th edition (October 12, 2005) ISBN 978-0837969909}}</ref> However, according to a researcher’s note on the Britannica’s website in June 2007, Wales contacted Britannica claiming that the date of [[August 7]], [[1966]] was incorrect but was unwilling to provide them with a documented alternative.<ref name="researchers_note">
{{cite news
|first=
|last=
|title=Jimmy Wales's date of birth
|url=http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9439003/Jimmy-Waless-date-of-birth
|work=Researcher's Note
|publisher=[[Encyclopædia Britannica]]
|date=September 18, 2004
|accessdate=2007-08-08
|quote=}}</ref> On [[July 27]], [[2007]], when asked by [[The Oregonian|Oregonian]] reporter Mike Rogoway when his birthday was Wales is reported to have mysteriously stated, "Nobody knows."<ref name="dob"/> Moreover, on his blog Rogoway claims that a Florida public records search shows that Wales’ drivers license lists his date of birth as [[August 8]], [[1966]].<ref name="dob"/> In August 2007, Wales expanded on this in his Wikipedia talk page by stating, in part: "In any event, the quotes in the Oregonian are correct."<ref name="DOB"/>

==Personal philosophy==
Wales is a self-avowed "[[Objectivism (Ayn Rand)|Objectivist]] to the core", to the extent of having named his daughter Kira after the heroine in [[Ayn Rand]]'s ''[[We the Living]]'',<ref name="fastcompany"/> although he says, "I think I do a better job — than a lot of people who self-identify as Objectivists — of not pushing my point of view on other people."<ref>{{citeweb|url=http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2007/01/29/wikipedia-jimmy-wales-rusirius-google-objectivism|title= Jimmy Wales Will Destroy Google|accessdate=2007-05-11}}</ref> When asked by [[Brian Lamb]] in his appearance on [[C-SPAN]]'s ''[[Q&A (talk show)|Q&A]]'' about Rand, Wales cited "the virtue of independence" as important to him personally. When asked if he could trace "the Ayn Rand connection" to having a political philosophy at the time of the interview, Wales reluctantly labeled himself a [[libertarianism|libertarian]], qualifying his remark by referring to the [[Libertarian Party (United States)|Libertarian Party]] as "lunatics" and citing "freedom, liberty, basically individual rights, that idea of dealing with other people in a matter that is not initiating force against them" as his guiding principles.<ref name="qanda"/> From 1992 to 1996, he ran the electronic mailing list "Moderated Discussion of Objectivist Philosophy."<ref>{{cite newsgroup|author=Wales, Jimmy|title=Re: Objectivism of Ayn Rand|date=[[1992-09-23]]|newsgroup=talk.philosophy.misc|id=Bv1u8x.Bnv@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu|url=http://groups.google.com/group/talk.philosophy.misc/msg/8c5e626c70a213f8?dmode=source}}</ref> An interview with Wales served as the cover feature of the June 2007 issue of the libertarian magazine ''[[Reason magazine|Reason]]''.

==Published works by Wales==
*Robert Brooks, Jon Corson, and J. Donal Wales. [http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5735 "The Pricing of Index Options When the Underlying Assets All Follow a Lognormal Diffusion"], in ''Advances in Futures and Options Research'', volume 7, 1994. See also [[log-normal distribution]].

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
{{linkfarm}}
{{Spoken Wikipedia|Jimmy Wales.ogg|2005-04-06}}
{{sisterlinks}}
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales Wales' page on the English Wikipedia]
*[http://blog.jimmywales.com/ Wales' blog]
*{{imdb name|id=2467065|name=Jimmy Wales}}
===News media===
*{{cite news |first=Tim |last=Adams |authorlink= |author= |coauthors= |title= For your information|url=http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,,2113739,00.html |format= |work= |publisher=''[[The Observer]]''|id= |pages= |page= |date=[[July 1]], [[2007]]|accessdate=|language= |quote= }}
*{{cite news|url=http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20070311x1.html|title=Power to the Wikipeople|author=Setsuko Kamiya|publisher=[[The Japan Times]]|date=[[2007-03-11]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16926950/site/newsweek/|title=Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales discusses encyclopedias, Microsoft and the next big thing(s) on the Internet|publisher=[[Newsweek]]|date=[[2007-02-01]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2003-06-30-wiki_x.htm|title=It's a Wiki world out there for the Web's groupmind|publisher=[[USA Today]]|date=[[2003-07-01]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://www.goodexperience.com/blog/archives/000124.php|title=Interview: Wikipedia's Jimmy Wales|publisher=Good Experience|author=Mark Hurst|date=[[2005-03-10]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/09/26/focus4.html|title=St. Petersburg tech brain creates 'wiki' world with online encyclopedia|publisher=Tampa Bay Business Journal|author=Michael Hinman|date=[[2005-09-23]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/|title=Wikipedia founder admits serious quality problems|publisher=[[The Register]]|author=[[Andrew Orlowski]]|date=[[2005-10-18]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6298340/site/newsweek/|title=It's Like a Blog, But It's a Wiki|publisher=[[Newsweek]]|author=Brad Stone|date=[[2005-11-01]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1136024385322320.xml&coll=2|title=Alabamian is brain behind Wikipedia|publisher=The Birmingham News|author=Joseph D. Bryant|date=[[2005-12-31]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9075-1962714,00.html|title=Wikipedia Chief considers taking ads|publisher=[[Times Online]]|author=Rhys Blakely|date=[[2005-12-30]]}}
*{{cite news|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/fashion/13poss.html |title=Industrial Art Illuminates Life|publisher=[[New York Times]]|author=David Colman|date=[[2006-08-13]]}}</div>

===Audio/video===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
! Recorded on
! Place
! Type
! Title
|-
|[[2005-04-29]]
|[[New York City]]
|Video
|[http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1481092941037856073 Jimmy Wales speaking at Gel 2005 conference]
|-
|[[2005-05-19]]
| [[Boston, Massachusetts]] ([[WGBH]])
| Audio
|[http://www.radioopensource.org/pilot-3-the-wikipedia/ Open Source—The Wikipedia] (hosted by [[Christopher Lydon]])
|-
|[[2005-07-11]]
|[[Oxford Internet Institute]]
|Video
|[http://webcast.oii.ox.ac.uk/?view=Webcast&ID=20050711_76 “The Intelligence of Wikipedia" Talk]
|-
|[[2005-07-15]]
|[[Oxford]], [[UK]]
|Video
|[http://www.ted.com/tedtalks/tedtalksplayer.cfm?key=j_wales Jimmy Wales speaking at TED Global Conference] ([[July 12]] – [[July 15]] [[2005]])
|-
|[[2005-09-02]]
|[[Stanford]]
|Video
|[http://www.prodigem.com/torrents/details.php?id=296 Jimmy Wales discussing Wikipedia] 40 minutes from a talk Jimmy held at Stanford on available as an avi in torrent form and licensed under the [[Creative Commons]] ([[QuickTime]]: [http://www.archive.org/download/HowardRheingoldIFTFStanfordHumanitiesLabJimmyWales/wales.mov 200 MB], [http://www.archive.org/download/IFTFJimmyWalesLecturesmallversion/walessmall.mov 70 MB])
|-
|[[2005-09-03]]
|[[California]]
|Audio
|[http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail443.html IT Conversations interview with Jimbo]
|-
|[[2005-10-10]]
|[[San Francisco]]
|Video
|[http://www.nooneslistening.org/mm.php?sl=v3 Jimmy Wales interview by Irene McGee of NoOne's Listening] 9 minutes, from Media Alliance event
|-
|[[2005-11-02]]
|[[NPR]]
|Audio
|[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4986453&ft=1&f=1019 Talk of the Nation—Wikipedia, Open Source and the Future of the Web]
|-
|[[2005-11-03]]
|[[UC Berkeley]] (iSchool)
|Audio
|[http://dream.sims.berkeley.edu/~jhall/wales_sims_03-Nov-2005.mp3 Audio of Jimmy Wales talk] about Community & politics & future plans & other things
|-
|[[2005-12-05]]
|
|Audio
|[http://writingshow.com/?p=88 Jimmy Wales Talks Wikipedia on The Writing Show] (posted on [[2006-01-01]])
|-
|[[2006-02-08]]
|
|Audio
|[http://danbricklin.com/podcast.html#danbcast-2006-02-08-22-40-29 Jimmy Wales Keynote Speech on Wikipedia, Mass Tech Leadership Council meeting], . Podcast by [[Dan Bricklin]] [http://danbricklin.com/log/2006_01_12.htm#mtlcpodcast Podcast description].
|-
|[[2006-04-14]]
|San Francisco
|Audio
|[http://seminars.moose.cc/salt-0200604-wales/salt-020060414-wales.mp3 "Vision: Wikipedia and the Future of Free Culture"] for [http://www.longnow.org/ The Long Now Foundation]
|-
|[[2006-04-14]]
|San Francisco
|Video
|[http://fora.tv/fora/showthread.php?t=459 "Vision: Wikipedia and the Future of Free Culture"] for [http://www.longnow.org/ The Long Now Foundation]
|-
|[[2006-05-26]]
|[[FLOSS Weekly]]
|Audio
|[http://twit.tv/floss7 Audio interview]
|-
|[[2006-08-02]]
|Boston, Massachusetts ([[On Point]])
|Audio
|[http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2006/08/20060802_b_main.asp Audio interview]
|-
|-
|[[2006-10-13]]
|''[[The Hour]]'' with [[George Stroumboulopoulos]]
|Video
|[http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1089 "Wikipedia Versus China" Video interview]
|-

|
|
|
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkXD-MXyI7k No One's Listening interview of Jimmy Wales]
|-
|[[2007-01-08]]
|[[BBC Radio Five]]
|Audio
|[http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/noscript.shtml?/radio/aod/fivelive_aod.shtml?fivelive/wikipedia BBC Radio Five interview]
|-
|[[2007-01-29]]
|
|Audio
|[http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2007/01/29/wikipedia-jimmy-wales-rusirius-google-objectivism/ Interview with RU Sirius]
|-
|[[2007-01-31]]
|[[New York University]]
|Video
|[http://www.nowpublic.com/jimmy_wales_gives_talk_on_free_culture_transparency_and_search Video of and notes from Jimmys Talk on Free Culture, Transparency, and Search]
|-
|[[2007-01-31]]
|[[NYU]]
|Audio
|[http://homepages.nyu.edu/~gd586/Jimmy%20Wales%20-%20NYU%20-%201-31-07.mp3 MP3 of Jimmy's talk about Wikia Search]
|-
|[[2007-01-05]]
|
|
|[http://www.kqed.org/epArchive/R701051000 Jimmy Wales interviewed] on [[KQED]]'s Forum Program
|-
|[[2007-04-18]]
|
|
|[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9683874 Jimmy Wales on the User-Generated Generation] on [[NPR]]'s [[Fresh Air]] with [[Terry Gross]]
|-
|[[2007-04-03]]
|
|
|[http://www.crankygeeks.com/2007/04/episode_58_wikipediacom_helium.php/ Jimmy Wales on Cranky Geeks]
|-
|[[2007-04-24]]
|
|
|[http://www.thezashow.com/?p=228 Interview with Jimmy Wales on The ZA Show]
|-
|
|
|
|[http://media.fairfax.com.au/?rid=27889 Interview] with The Sydney Morning Herald
|}
{{start}}
{{s-new|rows=2}}
{{s-ttl|title=Chairman of the Wikimedia Foundation|years=[[2003-06-20]] – [[2006-10-21]]}}
{{s-aft|after=[[Florence Nibart-Devouard]]}}
|-
{{s-ttl|title=Chairman Emeritus of the Wikimedia Foundation|years=[[2006-10-21]] – Present}}
{{s-inc|heir=}}
{{end}}

{{Wikipediahistory}}



{{Persondata
|NAME=Wales, Jimmy Donal
|ALTERNATIVE NAMES=Wales, Jimbo
|SHORT DESCRIPTION=American [[Internet]] [[entrepreneur]], [[wiki]] pioneer; founder of [[Wikipedia]]
|DATE OF BIRTH=[[August 7]], [[1966]]
|PLACE OF BIRTH=[[Huntsville, Alabama|Huntsville]], [[Alabama]]}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Wales, Jimmy}}
[[Category:1966 births]]
[[Category:American bloggers]]
[[Category:American entrepreneurs]]
[[Category:Auburn University alumni]]
[[Category:Berkman Fellows]]
[[Category:EFF Pioneer Award recipients]]
[[Category:History of Wikipedia]]
[[Category:Indiana University alumni]]
[[Category:Internet personalities]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:Objectivists]]
[[Category:People from Florida]]
[[Category:People from Huntsville, Alabama]]
[[Category:University of Alabama alumni]]
[[Category:Wikimedia Foundation]]
[[Category:Wikipedia people]]

[[ar:جيمي ويلز]]
[[ast:Jimmy Wales]]
[[bn:জিমি ওয়েল্‌স]]
[[be-x-old:Джымі Ўэйлз]]
[[bs:Jimmy Wales]]
[[br:Jimmy Wales]]
[[bg:Джими Уейлс]]
[[ca:Jimmy Wales]]
[[cs:Jimmy Wales]]
[[cy:Jimmy Wales]]
[[da:Jimmy Wales]]
[[de:Jimmy Wales]]
[[dv:Jimmy Wales]]
[[el:Τζίμι Γουέιλς]]
[[es:Jimmy Wales]]
[[eo:Jimmy Wales]]
[[eu:Jimmy Wales]]
[[fa:جیمی ولز]]
[[fr:Jimmy Wales]]
[[fur:Jimmi Wales]]
[[gl:Jimbo Wales]]
[[zh-classical:吉米·威爾斯]]
[[ko:지미 웨일스]]
[[hi:जिम्मी डोनेल "जिम्बो" वेल्स]]
[[hr:Jimmy Wales]]
[[ig:Jimmy Wales]]
[[id:Jimmy Wales]]
[[is:Jimmy Wales]]
[[it:Jimmy Wales]]
[[he:ג'ימי ויילס]]
[[la:Iacobus Wales]]
[[lb:Jimmy Wales]]
[[lt:Jimmy Wales]]
[[li:Jimmy Wales]]
[[hu:Jimmy Wales]]
[[ml:ജിമ്മി വെയില്‍‌സ്]]
[[ms:Jimmy Wales]]
[[cdo:Cī-mī Ŭi-lò̤-sṳ̆]]
[[nah:Jimmy Wales]]
[[nl:Jimmy Wales]]
[[ja:ジミー・ウェールズ]]
[[no:Jimmy Wales]]
[[nn:Jimmy Wales]]
[[oc:Jimmy Wales]]
[[pl:Jimmy Wales]]
[[pt:Jimmy Wales]]
[[ro:Jimmy Wales]]
[[qu:Jimmy Wales]]
[[ru:Уэйлс, Джимми Донал]]
[[simple:Jimbo Wales]]
[[sk:Jimmy Wales]]
[[sl:Jimmy Wales]]
[[sr:Џими Вејлс]]
[[sh:Džimi Vels]]
[[fi:Jimmy Wales]]
[[sv:Jimmy Wales]]
[[ta:ஜிம்மி வேல்ஸ்]]
[[te:జిమ్మీ వేల్స్]]
[[th:จิมมี เวลส์]]
[[vi:Jimmy Wales]]
[[tr:Jimmy Wales]]
[[war:Jimmy Wales]]
[[yi:זשימי וועילס]]
[[zh-yue:占美·威爾斯]]
[[bat-smg:Džims Veilsas]]
[[zh:吉米·威爾士]]

Shut Up and Drive

2007-09-16T03:28:02Z

Duff man2007: /* Music video */

{{CurrentSingles}}
{{Infobox Single 
| Name = Shut Up and Drive
| (A)-Sides = [[Don't Stop The Music]]
| Cover = Shut Up and Drive - Single.PNG
| Artist = [[Rihanna]]
| from Album = [[Good Girl Gone Bad]]
| Released = [[June 12]], [[2007]] ([[U.S.]])<ref>http://fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=69239</ref> [[August 27]], [[2007]] ([[UK]])<ref>http://www.defjam.co.uk/</ref>
| Format = [[12" maxi single]], [[digital download]]
| Recorded = 2007
| Genre = [[Pop rock]]
| Length = 3:33
| Label = [[Def Jam]]
| Writer = [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers|Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers]] & [[New Order]]
| Producer = Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers
| Certification =
| Chart position =
* 4 ([[Australia]])
* 5 ([[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]], [[United Kingdom]])
* 6 ([[Canada]])
* 7 ([[Lithuania]])
* 8 ([[Poland]])
* 9 ([[Netherlands]])
* 11 ([[World]])
* 12 ([[Europe]])
* 15 ([[United States]])
* 17 ([[New Zealand]])
* 31 ([[Sweden]])
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Hate That I Love You]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = [[UK]] singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Don't Stop the Music (Rihanna song)|Don't Stop the Music]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Upper caption = Alternate covers
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic1.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic2.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
}}

"'''Shut Up and Drive'''" is a song written by [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers]] for [[Rihanna]]'s third album ''[[Good Girl Gone Bad]]'' (2007). The track uses a reworked version of [[New Order]]'s "[[Blue Monday (New Order song)|Blue Monday]]" as the main musical theme.<ref>[http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde] ''Wc02.allmusic.com'' </ref> Its lyrics use [[automobile]]s as a metaphor for the persona in an offer of [[sexual intercourse|sex]].<ref name="vv"/> It was released as the second North American single in June 2007 (see [[2007 in music]]).<ref>[http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/3-0&fp=465c3e50374d037d&ei=LMRcRpWoF4-UpQKp1tT6DA&url=http%3A//www.mtv.com/news/articles/1560279/20070523/lohan_lindsay.jhtml&cid=0 MTV].</ref> It debuted on the ''[[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]]'' [[Hot 100]] at number 88 and has so far peaked at number fifteen.<ref name=Reigns>Jonathan Cohen, [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003598985 "Rihanna's 'Umbrella' Reigns Again Atop Hot 100"], Billboard.com, June 14, 2007.</ref>

==Critical reception==
The song has received mixed reviews from music critics. ''[[Slant Magazine]]'' found that the song did not live up to its [[campy]] title,<ref>Cinquemani, Sal. [http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/music_review.asp?ID=1135 "Music Review: Rihanna: Good Girl Gone Bad"]. ''[[Slant Magazine]]''. [[May 22]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> and ''[[The Village Voice]]'' described it as simultaneously "goofy and sexually daring".<ref name="vv">Dugue, Rodney. [http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0723,dugue,76851,22.html "Mediocre Girl Gone Good"]. ''[[The Village Voice]]''. [[June 5]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> [[All Music Guide]], however, referred to it as "a sleek, forthcoming proposition…as undeniable and rocking as [[Sugababes]]' 2002 UK smash '[[Freak Like Me#Sugababes version|Freak Like Me]]'".<ref>Kellman, Andy. [http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jcftxz85ld0e~T00 "Good Girl Gone Bad > Overview"]. [[All Music Guide]]. 2007. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref>

==Music video==
[[Image:ShutUpAndDriveVideo.jpg|left|thumb|Rihanna working on a car in the music video.]]

The song's [[music video]] is directed by [[Anthony Mandler]] and opens with Rihanna driving a [[Ferrari F430]] into a garage. Rihanna and several other girls start working in the car mechanic garage in a suggestive manner, before slamming the hoods down on cue with the first "Shut Up and Drive" part of the lyrics. The video then cuts to a scene where two cars are preparing to race. Rihanna and her friends show up, and Rihanna proceeds to flirt with the two race car drivers through the open windows of their cars at the starting line. She then directs the drivers to "Shut Up and Drive", and they take off. The next scene shows Rihanna performing with her band. Throughout the video, Rihanna is also shown in the car garage, and walking around the race yard.

The video premiered on MTV's ''[[Total Request Live]]'' on [[July 4]], [[2007]]. On [[July 9]], [[2007]], it debuted on the ''TRL'' countdown at number ten for the first time and has been on the countdown for twenty nine days and so far has peaked at #4 as of [[August 20]], [[2007]].

Rihanna's first promotional venues for Shut Up And Drive were on the British [[television]] shows [[This Morning]], [[The Friday Night Project]] and [[DanceX]]. Rihanna also performed Shut Up And Drive in public prior to its release at venues including [[Stripped Music]], [[Live Earth]], [[AOL Music Sessions]], and several concerts not shown on [[television]]. The music video was also used in 2007 [[NASCAR]] [[NEXTEL Cup]] broadcasts on [[NASCAR on ESPN|ESPN]]. The song has also been used in the promotional commercial for the [[The CW Television Network | CW]]'s reality television series [[America's Next Top Model]] for Cycle 9, and the new show [[Carpoolers]] on ABC.

Rihanna performed the song on the [[2007 MTV Video Music Awards]] with [[Fall Out Boy]], and on [[The Ellen DeGeneres Show]]. <ref>http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shut+up+and+drive+fall+out+boy</ref>

==Track listing==
;Vinyl CD Single<ref>[http://www.juno.co.uk/products/279088-01.htm Vinyl CD Single]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Instrumental)

;UK CD Single<ref>[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shut-Up-Drive-Rhianna/dp/B000UNBQQY]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)

==Chart performance==
Shut Up and Drive debuted on Australian [[ARIA Charts|ARIA Singles Chart]] at number 4. It also reached at number 11 in [[United World Chart]].

===Charts===
{|class="wikitable"
!align="left"|Chart (2007)
!align="center"|Peak position
|-
|align="left"|[[ARC Weekly Top 40]]<ref>[http://www.rockonthenet.com/charts/arc.htm ARC Weekly Top 40]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|Romanian Top 100 <ref>[http://www.rt100.ro/top-100-edition.html Romania Top 100]</ref>
|align="center"|33
|-
|align="left"|Bulgarian Airplay Chart<ref>[http://theveronicas.free.fr/C1300forums/index.php?showtopic=2632]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Australian ARIA Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1U50 Australian Top 50 Singles Chart]. [[ARIA Charts|ARIA]]. Retrieved on [[September 9]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Brazil Hot 100<ref>[http://www.hot100brasil.com/chtsinglesb.html Brazil Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|84
|-
|align="left"|Canadian Hot 100<ref name="billboard">[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Canadian+Hot+100]</ref>
|align="center"|6
|-
|align="left"|[[Dutch Top 40]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|Europe<ref>[http://www.euro200.eu/ Euro 200]</ref>
|align="center"|12
|-
|align="left"|Hit List Portugal<ref>[http://www.mtv.pt/mtv.pt/charts/index.jhtml Hit List Portugal]</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Irish Singles Chart<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|[[Lithuania Airplay Chart]] <ref>[http://www.blogas.lt/hitfm/205871/lithuanian-airplay-chart.html Lithuanian Airplay Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|7
|-
|align="left"|New Zealand RIANZ Singles Chart<ref>[http://charts.org.nz/showitem.asp?key=322634&cat=s Rihanna - Shut Up and Drive (song)]. charts.org.nz. Retrieved on [[August 26]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|17
|-
|align="left"|[[Poland|Polish]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Polish-Top50.htm Polish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|8
|-
|align="left"|[[Portuguese]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Portugese-Top50.htm Portuguese Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|28
|-
|align="left"|[[Singapore]] Airplay Chart<ref>[http://www.power98.com.sg/pages/red_hot_30.php Singapore AirplayChart]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Swedish top 60<ref>[http://www.swedishcharts.com/weekchart.asp?cat=s Swedish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|31
|-
|align="left"|Turkey Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.capitalradio.com.tr/hot40/hot40_cr.asp Turkey Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|UK Top 75 Singles<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|[[United World Chart]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|11
|-
|align="left"|U.S. [[Billboard Hot 100|''Billboard'' Hot 100]]<ref name=acharts>[http://acharts.us/song/26455 "Rihanna - Shut Up And Drive global chart positions and trajectories"]. aCharts.us. Retrieved [[July 31]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|15
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' [[Pop 100]]<ref> [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/retrieve_chart_history.do?model.vnuArtistId=658897&model.vnuAlbumId=933955]</ref>
|align="center"|10
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' European Hot 100<ref>[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?f=European+Hot+100+Singles&pageNumber=Top+11-50&g=Singles European Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|16
|-
|}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* [http://music.defjam.com/www2/av_player/AVPlayer.php?av_asset_id=11921&av_link_group_id=558&av_type_id=2&cms_site_id=1 "Shut Up and Drive" music video]
* [http://music.unrealitytv.co.uk/rihanna-shut-up-and-drive/ Review of Shut Up And drive by Unreality Music]

{{Rihanna}}

[[Category:2007 singles]]
[[Category:Pop rock songs]]
[[Category:Rihanna songs]]
[[Category:Songs with sexual themes]]

[[he:Shut Up and Drive]]
[[pl:Shut Up and Drive]]

Jimmy Wales

2007-09-15T01:21:29Z

Duff man2007: /* Bomis */

Talk:Jimmy Wales

2007-09-15T01:21:06Z

Duff man2007: /* Can anybody explaine to me why Bomis or whatever is controversial? */

{{skiptotoctalk}}
{{oldpeerreview}}
{{oldafdmulti
|date=[[2005-05-31]]
|result='''Keep'''
|page=Jimmy Wales
|date2=[[2007-08-14]]
|result2='''Speedy Keep'''
|page2=Jimmy Wales (2nd nomination)
|date3=[[2007-08-31]]
|result3='''Speedy Keep'''
|page3=Jimmy Wales (3rd nomination)
}}
{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="text-align: left;"
|-
| [[Image:Information icon.svg|45px|Information]]
| '''If you need to contact Jimbo about something, please do so at [[User talk:Jimbo Wales]], not here.''' As Jimbo explains...

"People who are trying to leave messages for me will likely be more satisfied if they leave messages on my [[User_talk:Jimbo Wales|user talk page]] than if they leave them here. This is the talk page for the article about me, not a place to talk to me. I rarely read this. --[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 06:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)"
|}
{{talkheader}}
{{WikiProjectBanners
|1 = {{WPBiography|class=GA|priority=Mid|living=yes}}
|2 = {{WikiProject Wikipedia|class=GA|importance=Top}}
|3 = {{WP Internet|class=GA|importance=Top}}
|4 = {{WikiProject Alabama|class=GA}}
}}
{{ArticleHistory
|action1=PR
|action1date=23:22, 15 June 2006
|action1link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Jimmy Wales/Archive 1
|action1result=reviewed
|action1oldid=58840827

|action2=GAN
|action2date=01:35, 5 July 2006
|action2result=listed
|action2oldid=62024022

|action3=FAC
|action3date=22:58, 10 October 2006
|action3link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jimmy Wales/archive1
|action3result=not promoted
|action3oldid=80703703

|action4=GAR
|action4date=12:54, 17 October 2006
|action4link=Wikipedia:Good_articles/Disputes/Archive_8#Jimmy_Wales
|action4result=kept
|action4oldid=81895538

|currentstatus=GA
|gacat=biz people
|topic=Socsci}}
{{WP1.0|WPCD=yes|class=GA}}
{{Talk Spoken Wikipedia|Jimmy_Wales.ogg|small=yes}}
{{wikipedian-bio|Jimbo Wales|Wales, Jimbo|editedhere=yes|small=yes}}
{{archives|auto=[long|yes]|small=yes}}

== WP Alabama ==

How could this article relate to WikiProject Alabama when the only (known) thing Jimbo has in common with it is his birthplace in [[Huntsville, Alabama|Huntsville]]? — [[User:Springeragh| '''''$PЯING''''']][[User talk:Springeragh|rαgђ ]] 02:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

:You answered your own question; the fact that he was born and raised in Alabama places him in the scope of the Alabama WikiProject. [[User:Nufy8|Nufy8]] 02:58, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

::Does he live there now? — [[User:Springeragh| '''''$PЯING''''']][[User talk:Springeragh|rαgђ ]] 03:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

:::No. [[User:Nufy8|Nufy8]] 03:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

::Being born in Alabama is not the only known thing Jimmy Wales has in common with Alabama. Wales was also educated in Alabama. He attended the University of '''Alabama''' in Tuscaloosa, '''Alabama''' and Auburn University in Auburn, '''Alabama'''. [[User:24.181.107.187|24.181.107.187]] 19:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
:::what does he have to do with the state itself? should every american with an article on wikipedia fall under the scope of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject United States|wikiproject united states]]? [[User:82.112.143.249|82.112.143.249]] 00:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

== Website as Userpage ==

I removed his userpage link that was under the title "Website" per [[WP:NOT]] ie Wikipedia is not a Personal web page and thus should not advertise his userpage as a personal website. Instead of just reverting [[User:Freakofnurture|Freakofnurture]] edits i thought i would bring it here as [[WP:NOT]] is a policy. I would like to hear Jimmy's option if he considers this his personal website or not. [[User:ExtraDry|ExtraDry]] 10:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
: It's not as much his personal website, as it is his official page as benevolent dictator of this project. Aum. <strikes forehead against floor>. Highly relevant to his main area of notability. Keep it. --[[User:AnonEMouse|AnonEMouse]] [[User_talk:AnonEMouse|(squeak)]] 12:39, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

:If we are looking for a link which directs people to further information about me, the best link will be my blog, which I consider to be my "personal website" in the relevant sense. My wikipedia userpage is a wikipedia userpage and therefore not a personal website. However, as to the question of whether this article should send people to my wikipedia userpage or not, I guess that is a different question, and I have no opinion. What do we generally do when subjects of articles also have userpages? We should be more or less consistent, I suppose.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 13:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
::Normally we use {{tl|Notable Wikipedian}}. As this talk page has a special notice ''"If you need to contact Jimbo about something..."'', it might be a little spammy to add the NW template. [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]][[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]] 14:54, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
:::We already have that template here, disguised via a redirect. Look at the right column. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 00:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

:Having a link hidden in the talk page is not at all the same as having it in the article, I feel that the link [[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] should be kept in the article. Because the two subjects of Jimbo and wikipedia are innately woven together, coming from him being on wikipedia. Or to put it another way, a large part of his fame comes from the work he has done as a user on wikipedia. Thus it makes sense to link to his userpage on wikipedia. Exactly the same as ''if'' (pretend example here...) I became very famous for my writings the times, then it would makes logical sense to link to my userpage on the times (if it is informative). [[User:Mathmo|Mathmo]] [[User talk:Mathmo|Talk]] 17:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

== missing pictures ==

At least [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&oldid=138897691 2 pictures] are missing from this article. I recommend the pictures be restored. [[User:QuackGuru| QuackGuru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk]] 01:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
:This is important, I thought. I think the pictures should be added back in. [[User:QuackGuru| QuackGuru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk]] 19:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:: Besides picturing Wales they don't have anything to do with the article. They are redundant and should not be restored. [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 17:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

== External link craziness ==

Check out [[Jimmy Wales#External links|the external links]]. Per [[WP:EL|link policy]], the external links need a very good clean up. [[User:QuackGuru| QuackGuru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk]] 01:37, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
:Yeah, I'd just kill them all except the first 3 and then put in a link to dmoz or something. [[User:RN|RN]] 03:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
::About half of the external links should be removed. Thanks. [[User:QuackGuru| QuackGuru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk]] 19:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Isn't it sad that the founders page has an external links user box?!?[[User:Gorkymalorki|Gorkymalorki]] 08:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

== Reversion of my change to Jimmy Wales ==
'''(moved Tualha comment from QuackGuru's talk page by QuackGuru)''' [[User:QuackGuru| QuackGuru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk]] 19:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello QuackGuru, did you read the edit summary of my change before you reverted it? I don't think we need to clutter up the citation with that rather long quote. The only way it supports the point is by referring to Jimbo as Wikipedia's "co-founder".

I observe that the text I removed [{{fullurl:Jimmy_Wales|diff=123902830&oldid=prev}} was originally added by you]. Allow me to remind you of what every page says when you edit it: "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, '''do not submit it.'''" You seem to be taking the removal of your text personally, or something. Please be assured I am just trying to improve the article. No one "owns" these articles, and insisting that one's changes be retained without justification is inappropriate.

I also don't understand why you summarized your change as ''("quotes" in small)'', when you did not change any text size, but merely reverted the last change. Did some program insert that text? Edit summaries are a useful guide to other editors, so it's important to make sure they're accurate.

Cheers, [[User:Tualha|Tualha]] ([[User_talk:Tualha|Talk]]) 15:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:It's kind of surprising that you could just open up a site and let people work," said Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia's co-founder and the chief executive of Bomis, a San Diego search engine company that donates the computer resources for the project. "There's kind of this real social pressure to not argue about things." Instead, he said, "there's a general consensus among all of the really busy volunteers about what an encyclopedia article needs to be like.

I added the "quotes" in small. To answer your question: I am a person and not a program. The quotes are very relevant and add to the article. Images are missing from this article. There is external link craziness. Relevant small quotes are being removed. Whats happening here? [[User:QuackGuru| QuackGuru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk]] 19:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
*It should be noted that the whole section above was not actually posted by [[User:Tualha|Tualha]], but was actually posted by {{user|QuackGuru}}. It looks like a textdump for Quack's talkpage.--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] 19:27, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
**Yes, I originally posted it on QuackGuru's talk page, he moved it here for some reason. Verbatim, I checked. [[User:Tualha|Tualha]] ([[User_talk:Tualha|Talk]]) 19:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
***Yeah, I noticed that after the fact. Cut and paste like that isn't the best practice because off the cuff it looks like impersonation since you were not in the edit log for having made that comment here.--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] 19:36, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
****Responding to QuackGuru, my points were:
::::#The quote is ''not'' relevant: where you have it, it should be supporting the statement "Sanger was identified as a co-founder of Wikipedia at least as early as September 2001". While the cited article does support that statement, the quote does not. All it does is refer to Jimmy Wales, in an offhand way, as "Wikipedia's co-founder". In my opinion, this rather lengthy quote doesn't carry its weight.
::::#You reverted my change, but whereas the edit summary should say something like ''reverted Tualha's change'' or ''undid Tualha's edit'', instead it says ''"quotes" in small'', which means very little. The edit summary should briefly explain the change and its purpose.
::::[[User:Tualha|Tualha]] ([[User_talk:Tualha|Talk]]) 19:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::I will use a more relevant quote. Thanks for your concern. Please review. [[User:QuackGuru| QuackGuru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk]] 20:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
::::::That one will do, though it can be trimmed. Thanks. [[User:Tualha|Tualha]] ([[User_talk:Tualha|Talk]]) 21:17, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

== First sentence in the education section ==

That part I fixed yesterday in the education section is logically inconsistent. It reads like the school was donating the software to itself. It's not Jimbo's user page so I have right to fix it, right? Why has it been undone then? [[User:Greg park avenue|greg park avenue]] 13:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

== Birthdate ==

'''I just [http://blog.jimmywales.com/ blogged about this].--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 09:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Supposedly, he was born on the 8th, and [[Britannica]] also thinks its the 7th. See [http://blog.oregonlive.com/siliconforest/2007/07/on_wikipedia_and_its_founders.html this blog entry] from [[The Oregonian]] newspaper. Also see [http://blog.oregonlive.com/siliconforest/2007/07/a_brief_history_of_wikis_1.html the previous, related blog entry] about an interview with him, [[Ward Cunningham]] and the newspaper, as well as a print article, [http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1185506712175050.xml&coll=7 Open-source thinking]. [[User:Jmchuff|Jason McHuff]] 22:49, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It looks like a reporter from a major newspaper has reported on a public records search, confirming what I have been saying for a long time. According to my birth certificate, August 7th is not my birthdate. Perhaps someday I will produce a note from my mom for another reporter. And perhaps I will just continue to have a bit of fun with this. :)--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 09:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:Mr. Wales has stated that his birthday is Aug. 7th, 1966. Links to these admissions can be found [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jimmy_Wales&oldid=6071885#Other_Stuff here] and [http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Board_of_Trustees&oldid=406 here]. Also, both [[Current Biography]] and [[Marquis Who's Who | Who's Who is America]] list his birthday as being the 7th. [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 07:21, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

::I hope I am not the only one who is amused that this anonymous ip number calls a discussion of my date of birth an "admission". :) Perhaps I shall next confess to having brown hair. --[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 18:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

::Thanks for the links. I don't think I saw the archive of this page when I came here. I'm not seeing the first edit you link to in the page history, but the second one does seem somewhat conclusive. Its interesting, because here (at your links) he seems pretty firm that its the 7th, yet the blog post (written by [http://blog.oregonlive.com/siliconforest/about.html a reporter] for a major metro newspaper, so hopefully a reliable source) really sounds like he said that its not the 7th. Overall, it does seem that a difference of a day isn't much to worry about. [[User:Jmchuff|Jason McHuff]] 09:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

::: Yeah, it's a bit weird. Here's a [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=5987088 link] that clarifies things a bit better than my first one. Of course, we can't use Wikepedia as a reliable source for information, which is why it's important to use more scholarly source like [[Current Biography]]. [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 18:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

::::Another good link. I was really just comparing what Wales has said here and in the interview. I do see the awkwardness of citing something here inside Wikipedia. Source-wise, it seems to be Current Biography, Who's Who and Britannica vs. The Oregonian interview and [http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9439003/Jimmy-Waless-date-of-birth this Britannica "research note"]. Assuming Current Biography and Who's Who don't also have questions about the date, for now I'm willing to leave the it as is, and use them as reference. [[User:Jmchuff|Jason McHuff]] 08:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::It might also be worth noting that on [[August 7]] '''we''' list August 7 as his birthday. If this is incorrect, I think we look really, really stupid here. [[User:Warlordjohncarter|John Carter]] 20:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::Wikipedia isn't about truth, it's about providing [[WP:V|verifiable]] information from [[WP:RS|reliable, published sources]]. I really don't thnk it's something to worry about. [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 21:40, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::::His DOB is on August 8 according to Jimmy. Agreed? [[User:QuackGuru| Mr.Guru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk ]] 22:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::::No. Sadly, Mr. Wales cannot be used as a reliable source since his statements about his DOB have been inconsistent. As previously mentioned only verifiable information from reliable, published sources can be used on Wikipedia. Even if that was not the case I can find no records where Mr. Wales has said that his birthday was on August 8th. If you can reference a source for that fact, which meets Wikipedia's guidelines, please do so. Till then I feel that we must continue to rely on the previously mentioned sources and keep his DOB as is. [[User:Jhurlburt|Jhurlburt]] 03:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::Yes! Happily, Jimbo can be used as a reliable source per [[WP:SELFPUB]] policy. Cheers. [[User:QuackGuru| Mr.Guru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk ]] 05:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::You have failed to provide a source where Mr. Wales makes this claim. We can't just take your word for it. [[User:Jhurlburt|Jhurlburt]] 05:29, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

In response to the most recent edits, a simple reminder; you cannot use Wikipedia or blogs as sources. Wikipedia is not its own reference and blogs are not acceptable as sources, according to [[WP:SELFPUB#Self-published_sources_.28online_and_paper.29|policy]]. If we were to use Wikipedia as a source I would direct everyone to statements and edits made by Mr. Wales where he [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jimmy_Wales&oldid=6071885#Other_Stuff states],

<blockquote>
"My actual birthday is August 7th, 1966. This is unverifiable information, I'm sorry to say, since my driver's license and passport say August 8. If we must revert on that basis, then I guess we must. *g*. Maybe I'll have to upload a signed note from my mom as documentary evidence; the only proof that I have is her sayso. :-) Jimbo Wales 20:55, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)"
</blockquote>

However, since a number of verifiable resources do provide this information and no published, reliable source refutes it we must stick with what we got. Remember, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. [[User:Jhurlburt|Jhurlburt]] 16:58, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:Hmm. Oddly that was added not by Jimbo but [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jimmy_Wales&diff=5987141&oldid=5973463 General Patton]. There is no contribution history from Jimbo with that timestamp or anything like it (not on meta either.) But, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=5987088 there is this] where he sets it to the 7th. Boggle! See http://blog.jimmywales.com/index.php/archives/2007/08/08/my-birthdate/ ←[[User:BenB4|Ben]][[User talk:BenB4|B4]] 18:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:: Thanks for pointing out the strange timestamp, that is odd. After doing some internet research it appears this is an old [http://www.wikitruth.info/index.php?title=The_Case_of_the_Disappearing_Diff controversy] and somebody with oversight powers on Wikipedia removed Mr. Wales' quote. However, as you pointed out with your [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=5987088 example] there have been times when Mr. Wales has edited his bio to state that his birthday is Aug 7th. As silly as it sounds given the fact that Mr. Wales has flip-flopped over when his actual birthdate is we can't use him as a reliable source. Three years ago he said it was the 7th, now he says it's the 8th. If next year he say's it's the 9th should we change it again? Remember, we '''need''' reliable, published sources for content.... Mr. Wales' blog never makes the claim that his birthdate is Aug. 8th.... it refers to another blog where Wales' states that "Nobody knows..." when his birthdate is and the blogger claims that it's the 8th. That's not good enough. [[User:Jhurlburt|Jhurlburt]] 19:00, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:::I don't think I have flip flopped at all. I have had a bit of fun by being cryptic from time to time, but have been consistent throughout. At the present time, and for the first time EVER, we appear to have a reliable source: a reporter who has done a public record search.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 10:49, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

:::Let's use a bit of common sense here... is Jimbo's birthdate being in February or August really all that contentious of a topic that it merits edit warring? I mean seriously.--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] ''[[User_talk:Isotope23|talk]]'' 19:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I am confused. Jimbo first said his birthday is on the 7th and ''NOT'' on the 8th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=5987088 ''See here and...''

http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Board_of_Trustees&diff=prev&oldid=406 ''here.''

OK. This is a little weird. I am scratching my head. How can we [[WP:NPOV|NPOV]] this? I must say. This is a difficult one. [[User:QuackGuru| Mr.Guru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk ]] 20:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

::I am confused too, hence my removing any date and putting on the totally disputed tag. Obviously I wont be reverting over this one, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 20:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:::If you ask me, it is entirely silly to have a section of the article on this topic. To my mind, this seems pretty simple. For the first time, we have a reliable source on the date, and currently we don't even mention it. Linking to Wikipedia diffs is invalid. Linking to my blog can be perfectly valid, and certainly linking to the Oregonian article is perfectly valid. Britannica is a tertiary source at best and should be ignored. The simple correction that was made yesterday seems best to me.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 10:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we just say "Jimbo Wales was born on the [[International date line]], and thus his precise date of birth can not be decided"? Sure, it's a little dubious, but if it would stop the fighting --'''[[User talk:L|L]]'''[[User:L|u]][[Special:Contributions/L|c]][[User:L/contribs|id]] 11:16, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

What I'd like to know is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jimmy_Wales&diff=5987141&oldid=5973463 who oversighed this]. It seems like a pretty obvious abuse of the oversight power. ←[[User:BenB4|Ben]][[User talk:BenB4|B4]] 13:32, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
:I would like to know what evidence there is it was oversighted. Neither your or I are admins so we AFAIK can't tell the difference between things that are oversighted and things that are deleted... Whatever the case, it would seem to me this doesn't really belong here. Perhaps the VP or Administrator's Noticeboard or some such [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] 13:52, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
::If it was not oversighted, then General Patton signed Jimbo's name. Google a phrase from the edit in question and you'll see. ←[[User:BenB4|Ben]][[User talk:BenB4|B4]] 14:11, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
:::That, sadly, is what makes this controversal and the fact that this matter is starting to get mentioned in outside media (e.g. Britannica, the blog of Oregonian reporter Mike Rogoway) makes it worthy of mention. Regardless, if General Patton falsified a record to masquerade as Mr. Wales, a record of this act should be made here. Likewise, if an admin abused the oversight function to make it appear that General Patton falsified a record than that needs to be recorded as well (although neither circumstance explains edits made by Mr. Wales where he changes his DOB from the 8th to the 7th, but that's a different story).[[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 16:55, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Come on, its not that important, falsify is completely OTT, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 17:00, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

::::Britannica doesn't AFAIK say anything about the supposed oversighted deletion. All they say is that Jimbo Wales contacted them to say it was a different date but didn't provide proof. Jimbo Wales agreed with this in his blog. So again, if you think there is a controversy here, please show it [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] 17:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

::Sorry I forgot about the deletion log [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=&page=Talk%3AJimmy+Wales]. From the deletion log, it appears that it was not simply deleted. There have been some deletions but it doesn't look to me like any of them were to remove the revision which is purported to be missing (although only an admin can say for sure). However it appears both Ben & 84 failed to consider it could have been deleted so my main point stands. Don't assume something is oversighted when it could have been deleted. And my second point also stands. If you have a complaint about 'abuse' of the oversight system, take it up in a more appropriate channel since it has absolutely nothing to do with the article. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] 17:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Just a quick question now that the date has been reverted to Aug 8th. Why is the blog (not an article but a blog) of some reporter (for a local newspaper) considered to be more reliable than the Encyclopedia Britannica, Current Biography, and Who’s Who in America in light of Wikipedia's policy on [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiability]]? [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 17:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

:Encyclopedia Britannica? How is that a reliable source? Its a rival encyclopedia, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 18:04, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
::Being a rival doesn't discredit ones credibility, especially when Wikipedia started the rivalry. --[[User:Anittas|Thus Spake Anittas]] 18:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I am not doubting their credibility but they are not a reliable source, that is obvious. They themselves would need to use reliable sources to be our equal but even so they cannot be a reliable source precisely because they just use reliable sources, that would be a self-defeating catch-22 type situation, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 18:27, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Let me quote Wikipedia's policy on [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]]. ''"What is a reliable source? Reliable sources are authors or publications regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand. Reliable publications are those with an established structure for fact-checking and editorial oversight."'' So again I ask my question why is the blog of a reporter for a small-time newspaper considered to be more reliable than the Encyclopedia Britannica, Current Biography, and Who’s Who in America - each of which has a reliable reputation for fact-checking and editorial oversight? [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 18:55, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

:You may be right about the Oregon web page though the fact that it is local makes no odds. I would clearly say EB does not fit the definition you have given of a reliable source, othjerwise we could just copy from them and it would make us absurd, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 19:03, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

FYI - the [[Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition|11th edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica]] is in the public domain and has been extensively copied by Wikipedia. We can't "copy" the current EB because that would violate their copyright terms. While I disagree with your claim that EB is not a reliable source, given that it contains some of the most extensive biographies of notable people found anywhere else, I don't think you can make the same claim for either Current Biography, and Who’s Who in America - whose bread and butter is personal biographies. [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 19:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

:Added the following quote from Wales, "My date of birth is not August 8, 1966." A link to statement can be found [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AJimmy_Wales&diff=63246911&oldid=63223187 here]. Hopefully, this page won't disappear like the last one. Just in case it does it was located between the following edits, 13:45, 11 July 2006 Theresa knott (Talk | contribs) (→The birth date....) and 16:27, 11 July 2006 Jimbo Wales (Talk | contribs) (→A fine point about Jimmy's wealth).

:Given that EB, Current Biography, and Who’s Who in America reports Mr. Wales' DOB as Aug. 7th, 1966 and only reporter Mike Rogoway's blog reports the date as the 8th, which contradicts Wales statement in the above quote, can we revert the article and list the DOB as the 7th instead of leaving it blank.? [[User:Jhurlburt|Jhurlburt]] 17:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

== Libertarian? ==
can we list him as a libertarian even though he doesnt like the libertarian party? i mean you can be conservative but not be a republican or a liberal and not be a democrat. so would it be safe to add him to the "American libertarian" category?

:Probably not.
I suggest talking to Jim, so he knows your adding him, and he can disagree or agree on it.
 Megan :) 05:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

::Remember that the threshold for inclusion of any information is [[WP:V|verifiability]] in [[WP:RS|reliable, published sources]], not truth. If the fact that he is Libertarian in his political philosophy has been published in a citable reliable source, then by all means add it to the appropriate section. [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] [[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]] 06:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

:::The only evidence we have of his libertarianism are his expressed support of ostensibly similar beliefs such as Objectivism. Seeing as Objectivists, such as myself, Ayn Rand, and those at ARI, often dislike the use of the term "libertarian" in regard to us, this is no proof that he identifies himself as a libertarian. Until there is expressed knowledge, it should be left out. [[User:D prime|D prime]] 15:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== NPOV ==

As always, it is deeply inappropriate for Wikipedia to take a stand on any controversial issue. It is therefore wrong to call me the co-founder of Wikipedia. Please someone fix this. There has been a long standing consensus as to how to deal with this, a compromise that avoids the question. "best known for his role in founding Wikipedia". Whoever changed it should be asked not to do that again.
--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 09:18, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:I made the change, but I have not been able to trace back to the editor that changed it, yet. [[User:Ursasapien|Ursasapien]] [[User talk:Ursasapien|(talk)]] 09:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

::I changed it to"known for his role in founding, running, and promoting" which I hope will remove the problem as Jimmy clearly isnt co-promoting or co-running wikipedia so hopefully this shouldnt happen again, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 19:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

== Brian Peppers Controversy ==

I believe that this represents a legitimate controversy that's worth mentioning here. Mr. Wales's actions in this case were unprecedented and have some serious ramifications for Wikipedia in general. Moreover, the claim of controversy isn't out of place. --[[User:H4lf|H4lf]] 15:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

My actions were in no way unprecedented, and there was basically no controversy. There was an AfD, the article was deleted, and some trolls kept recreating it anyway, and I deleted it and said knock it off for a certain amount of time. When that time was up, the matter was considered and the article remained deleted. Of all the things that happen in Wikipedia that might be controversial this is pretty low on the list. --[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 18:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:Jimbo, I'd like to apologize for my rashness. With the discussion page blanked, I only had other pages to go by, which portrayed the event as more substantive than it actually is. --[[User:H4lf|H4lf]] 16:53, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Here is the problem... you may consider this notable [[User:H4lf|H4lf]], but it doesn't seem to be very significant in regards to general media coverage of the incident. It really is a non-issue in the grand scheme of things and I don't see anything to indicate "serious ramifications" for Wikipedia in general. The other listed controversies have at least garnered some publicity.--[[User:Isotope23|Isotope23]] ''[[User_talk:Isotope23|talk]]'' 19:45, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
:The "Brian Peppers controversy" is such a non-issue it really does not warrant inclusion in Jimbo's biography at all. --[[User:Deskana|Deskana]] [[User talk:Deskana|(banana)]] 12:20, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
===Brian Peppers===
In February 2006, the Wikipedia article on [[Brian Peppers]] was deleted by Jimmy Wales. Since its creation in [[May 2005]], the article was repeatedly deleted and recreated. When brought before a community review, most users supported keeping the article. However, on February 22, 2006, Wales removed the article in full, removed its discussion page, and issued a one year moratorium on the article's recreation. The page currently remains protected.

I do not see any references for the above information. Is this true and is there any references from the general media. [[User:QuackGuru| Mr.Guru ]][[User_talk:QuackGuru| talk ]] 20:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Brian_Peppers Page logs] indicate not but without an outside relaible source there is no chance of including it anyway, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 20:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
::We can cite primary sources when they aren't challenged, right? ←[[User:BenB4|Ben]][[User talk:BenB4|B4]] 09:00, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Good luck not being challenged on this. I think the interpretation above is nonsense, suggesting that I acted (controversially) against community consensus. This is just more trolling about it if you ask me.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 10:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Um no you can't. For [[WP:BLP]] reasons in particular, you can't make up a controversy if none exists. Primary sources may be able to establish that something happened but they cannot establish it's controversial. Even if Jimbo Wales one time seriously said "I enjoy beating my wife and I think all men should be allowed to beat their wives" (random made up example) which is seemingly a controversial statement, it's not a controversy UNLESS other reliable sources establish it as a controversy [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]]
::::Firstly, I am opposed to the section; it has no place in this article because it is such a minor thing, one of dozens of such incidents. However, we have people citing primary sources in BLPs all over the place. Technically an autobiography is a primary source. ←[[User:BenB4|Ben]][[User talk:BenB4|B4]] 14:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::And I would also be opposed to mentioning a supposed controversy that someone was involved in if the only source which shows it was a controversial is an autobiography (although this isn't such a big issue as editors claiming something is a controversy based on their intepretation of primary sources when no reliable source has claimed it's a controversy which is what I was talking about). If there are any BLPs you can show which claims a controversy when the only evidence for the controversy is an autobiography, please do remove it or take it up ay [[WP:BLP/N]] [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] 17:32, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
=== THIS IS MY LAST ENTRY IN WIKIPEDIA ===
# I would like to thank Jimmy Wales for entertaining my interview last year prior to Wikimania 2.
# I would also like to thank some of the constructive members of the community including Mark_Ryan for originally introducing me to wikipedia.
# However, I cannot and will not go on receiving the blatant and total disrespect of the Wikimedia / Wikipedia communities in IRC and continue to sponsor this organization by making posts to it.
# This is all that needs to be said I'm afraid. Nice spending time with you.
# I'm really honestly sorry it has to close like this.
* chrisbradley@noisecontrolpublishing.com
--[[User:72.45.229.121|72.45.229.121]] 03:09, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

== Birthdate again ==

Jimmy's profile on [[Orkut]] [http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=3191748365440145796] gives today (August 14th) as his birthday. Is that correct?--[[User:Seraphiel|Seraphiel]] 04:25, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it. As to the section recently deleted by Squeakbox, rejecting contributions based on the prejudicial history of the contributor rather than the merit of the contribution in question is an assumption of bad faith. The information is correct, is neutral (as it makes no affirmative statement of which date is right), and is properly [[WP:V|verified]]. A discussion of the controversy surrounding his birthdate is certainly notable and encyclopedic, and does not violate the BLP. Futhermore, [[User talk:Jimbo#more birthdate nonsense|Jimbo]] stated that he though removing an affirmative statement of fact about his birthdate was a good idea, not that a neutral, balanced discussion of ''the debate surrounding the issue'' was bad. [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] [[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]] 20:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think BLP does demand we take the wishes of the subject into consideration and especially in a case like this where it would be controversial for the subject himself to edit the article. I am not convinced that basing an opinion on an editor on their [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Anittas block log] is showing bad faith, and basing myself on Jimbo's "I have had enough" statement and the fact that this is the article on Jimbo (I wouldnt use the block log to comment on this user's edits to otehr article), [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 20:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::I'm not saying we should ignore what Jimbo wishes, I'm saying that he supported a removal of a controversial fact. The current Controversy section is a well-rounded discussion about the debate, and doesn't make an affirmative statement as to which date is correct. To just leave out a precise date and no explanation of the obviously notable debate over the issue is failing the standards of a complete encyclopedia. [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] [[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]] 21:00, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

:::While I'm in no hurry to uphold JW's right to a quantum indeterminate DoB -- or as Tony S. said, two birthdays like his alleged role model -- I'm struggling to see that this is clearly either controversial or notable, as against the subject being somewhat silly, for no discernible reason. Wouldn't simply a sentence on which to "hang" the assorted sources (in which JW freely contradicts himself self and right) suffice? As opposed to an entire sectionated paragraph, which seems to have something of a "so what?" quality about it. [[User:Alai|Alai]] 03:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

::::I agree. People seem to be forgetting that to show something is controversial and relevant, especially in a BLP, you need to provide some evidence in a reliable source for this. The fact that it can be established that something happened is irrelevant. We shouldn't be writing about something using primary sources as our references when our only evidence it's controversial is the opinion of editors. Currently, the only RS I've seen which hints it's controversial is the Britannica thing and perhaps the 'who knows' bit. [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] —The preceding {{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|08:58:45, August 19, 2007}}}}}} | | comment was }} [[Wikipedia:Signatures|signed but undated]]{{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|08:58:45, August 19, 2007}}}}}} | | | comment was added at {{{Date|{{{Time|08:58:45, August 19, 2007}}}}}} (UTC{{{Zone|{{{3|{{{2|}}}}}}}}}) }}. 

::::: I think that the mention in EB and the article by Rogoway provide enough of a bases that a controversy exists. Plus, primary sources can be used in a BLP if the primary source is the person themselves (e.g. Wales' blog and his statements in his Wikipedia Talk page). Since some jokers keep on inserting Aug 8th as Wales' birthday every few months having a section that addresses the birthday issue along with all relevant sources seems pretty useful to me. [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 04:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

::::::I don't think Jimbo's blog, or any such primary source is sufficient to establish controversy. The fact that the person thinks there's a controversy is somewhat irrelevant. All that matters is whether or not there's a noteable controversy as recognised by other people [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] 18:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== Controversy section - has what he's done really been particularly controversial? ==

The sections in here don't deal with massively controversial issues. This may be an extension of [[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]], but in other biographies it's uncommon to have controversy sections over issues that are as relatively tame as the fact that he hosted erotic material online, that there was a small dispute over who founded the website, and, least important of all, his date of birth. Anyone else? It seems like the article is trying to adhere to NPOV as much as possible to avoid claims of hypocrisy, whereas the negative known aspects of Jimmy's life are quite insignificant.--'''[[User:HisSpaceResearch|h i s]]''' ''[[User talk:HisSpaceResearch|s p a c e]]'' '''[[Special:Contributions/HisSpaceResearch|r e s e a r c h]]''' 17:48, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

:Uh, [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]] editing of his own wikibio for one thing. Next is the controversy over his downplaying of Bomis' adult content. Last was the controversy surrounding the accuracy of his birthdate. The birthdate thing is very notable because it's a microcosm of the larger debate surrounding Wikipedia's reliability; if we can't even get his birthdate right, how accurate is this project? It doesn't just have to be controversial things Jimbo has done, but controversies that center on him. As to the hypocrisy issue, I think the idea that we are being sensationalistic is folly. Surely Jimbo wouldn't hesitate to voice some concern or complaint if he thought this was rumor-mongering? I say, if the subject doesn't have a problem with the content in question, then it can't be doing him "[[WP:BLP|harm]]". [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] [[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]] 17:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

::All of the things mentioned..... Bomis, the co-founder debate, and Wales' birthday are all aspects of the controversy that arose from Wales' conflict of interest editing. You can't discuss that controversy without mentioning these aspects..... the DOB is just the latest, and silliest, outgrowth of this debate. Of course, the DOB thing wouldn't even be a controversy if Mr. Wales would just tell people when his birth is instead of telling people when it is not or going around saying "Nobody knows...". [[User:68.117.211.187|68.117.211.187]] 23:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

== NPOV again ==

I am the sole founder of Wikipedia. It is deeply inappropriate for Wikipedia to take a stand on this point of controversy. Please revert to the longstanding compromise version on this point. And I think it is time to start warning the trolls who keep doing this.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 01:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:I assume you're speaking of the first sentence of the "Wikipedia and the Wikimedia Foundation" section? Or is it the intro's use of the term cofounder? Please clarify. But either way, you do realize that calling you ''the'' founder is also taking a stance on this, and possibly a more controversial and damning one for Wikipedia's reputation? We either don't use the term founder/cofounder at all (which, with the necessary explanation of your role, makes it verbose) or we choose the lesser of two evils and protect Wikipedia from being universally mocked like when we let you edit your own bio. [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] [[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]] 01:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:I removed the co from the first sentence, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 02:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:I agree with Jimbo that this would be damaging to the project and re BLP we should always take the subjects wishes inot consideration, equally for Sanger, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 02:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

::My comments above still stand, but I think I've changed my mind a bit. Simply saying founder, as long as we stay away from obviously inappropriate qualifiers such as "sole", leaves the implied possibility of other founders. Saying co does positively take the stance that Sanger's claim is valid, which is more a violation of NPOV. [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] [[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]] 02:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:::It's an issue some are very passionate about. I tried to find neutral ground over on [[Wikimedia Foundation]] as was trounced on by someone who felt "co-founder" was better sourced than Jimbo owning Wikipedia before transferring it to the Foundation. I believe many articles can be made neutral by simply avoiding any sort of "stand", but there's enough who will edit war over it endlessly. It drew me into some very ugly behavior, and I won't touch the issue again. I think a larger portion of the community needs to address this issue and come up with a solution written into policy: how shall Wikipedia refer to itself and its history. I don't mean to suggest any articles be locked down permanently, I'm thinking more like a strict manual of style relating to Wiki-history to prevent these issues from flaring up ever few months. --[[User:InkSplotch|InkSplotch]] 04:04, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

::::I have again removed the co. I think we can comment in the article about this, as we do, though I have NPOV'd that a bit, but we cant mention it in the opening. Sanger was a paid employee and that makes claims that he co-founded wikipedia extremely unlikley if not plain absurd, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 21:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::So absurd that it was written all over the official press releases, noted by the New York Times and other media, etc. without the slightest contradiction by anyone until 2004, and since then only by Jimbo himself, without a single notable source agreeing with him... [[User:Bramlet Abercrombie|Bramlet Abercrombie]] 21:46, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::Whatever my personal feelings concerning Sanger's status may be, I agree that the debate is real. It's not some inarguable [[WP:FRINGE]] idea to disagree with Jimbo, so we need to give equal weight here. Not that I think it should say co in the intro. But a lengthy discussion of the debate over the role Sanger played is better left to the main [[History of Wikipedia]] article I think. I say we mention it here, but keep it succinct enough that it doesn't turn into another battleground on the issue. Just summarize what the main history article says. [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] [[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]] 21:58, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::Actually, it's pretty much an inarguable [[WP:FRINGE]] idea to ''agree'' with Jimbo on this. His claim is completely baseless, not backed by one shred of evidence or by any notable source whatsoever, and his own mere say-so carries zero weight as he is obviously not an objective source in this - whereas the opposite view does not rely at all on Larry's say-so, it is backed by plenty of evidence. There is no "controversy" other than one between reality on one side and Jimbo on the other. [[User:Bramlet Abercrombie|Bramlet Abercrombie]] 22:09, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::::I think the main issue is the wording in the inrto reads "is known for". Wales is in fact known for being the founder of Wikipedia; not for his role in finding it nor for being the co-founder (regardless of the truth... is he the founder or the cofounder? Doesn't matter, for he is '''known''' as the founder). Perhaps rewriting the sentence so it isn't as passive may help. But as it reads now it is just wrong. -- [[User:Levine2112|Levine2112]] [[User talk:Levine2112|discuss]] 22:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::::Well, if what he is known as is actually counterfactual, it would be wrong to state it like that and thereby give the impression that the view is correct. I think it's not particularly relevant that he's often misleadingly called "the founder" in the press; the article should be factual and thus state that he "is the co-founder". The "known for his role in founding" formula was some attempt at compromise, but apparently it didn't work. Jimbo's threat of "warning the trolls" suggests that he's intent on forcing the issue his way. [[User:Bramlet Abercrombie|Bramlet Abercrombie]] 22:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::I am confused then. Two entries above you say that Jimbo's claim is "not backed by one shred of evidence or by any notable source whatsoever", but here you say that he is called "the founder" in the press. So if the press calls him the founder (though it may be incorrect according to your beliefs), then why can't we say he is known as the founder here? That is what he is known for, truthful or not. -- [[User:Levine2112|Levine2112]] [[User talk:Levine2112|discuss]] 22:53, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::As I said, it's misleading. The press calling him "the founder" is not evidence of him being the sole founder. Jimbo just calls himself "the founder" everywhere, so to some extent that's what he's now "known as". But there's not a single press article which deals explicitly with the Sanger-Wales issue and takes Wales' side (while many take Sanger's side by calling them both co-founders). [[User:Bramlet Abercrombie|Bramlet Abercrombie]] 00:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
:There is no evidence saying he is known as the founder is counter-factual. Sanger was a subordinate employee and subordinate employees cant claim to be the equal and co-founder, well they can claim but their claim has no valididty, it'd be like early Microsoft employees saying they built Windows. He is definitely known as the founder and while some claim that iosnt sso I agree with Van Tuckey that that should go into the History article. Certainly what iedited to just a bit ago is absolutely a succinct description giving both more or less Jimbo's POV and Sanger's POV. Note Jimbo says he is the siole founder, thatis his real POV and I agree that we shouldnt include either that or the co-founder int he opening, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 22:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Insofar as "the founder" suggests "sole founder", there is plenty of evidence contradicting it by calling him co-founder. What on earth has employee status to do with whether one can be a founder of something? And if this employee argument held any water, how do you explain that no one found it strange when Larry was called co-founder all over the place before 2004? It was well known that he was an employee. Again, it's not "Jimbo's POV" versus "Sanger's POV". Both of those are biased, so their views don't matter. The objective evidence matters, and it goes all one way. [[User:Bramlet Abercrombie|Bramlet Abercrombie]] 00:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
::I agree with SqueakBox on this. -- [[User:Levine2112|Levine2112]] [[User talk:Levine2112|discuss]] 23:04, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:::In any event, there is a controversy about it, and all I ask is that Wikipedia remain neutral.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 23:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::And if you said 2+2=5, we'd have to note this mathematical "controversy" too? Your assertion is backed up by nothing and is obviously self-serving, so has no factual value. The only fact is that you make the claim. But since the objective evidence is entirely sufficient to establish the facts, your claim is irrelevant as to the actual question of the founding of Wikipedia. The fact that you have been trying to rewrite the history, of course, should well be noted in your article. [[User:Bramlet Abercrombie|Bramlet Abercrombie]] 00:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

::::I've said it before and I'll say again in here. This is THE most important issue/edit war whatever the hell you want to call it to face this project, period. If the fact that Sanger was referred to as co-founder in the past(in here and in the media) and edit historys show that is how these articles used/still read, and this material can be so bastardized or whitewashed or whatever the hell you want to call it to the point where the guy who helped found this project WITH others is now posting to a talk page and proclaimed "I am the sole founder of Wikipedia." and that is how his entry will read, this project ain't worth a dam because how can ANY article will be safe from this type of distortion/write of history? My first reaction to seeing the lead post above was that it was the work of some Jimbo imposter. If that really is Jimbo, thats pretty sad, imho. --[[User:Threeafterthree|Tom]] 23:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::Well I am definitely not an imposter of Jimbo's, lol. On the other hand I take BLP very seriously and as Jimbo cannot edit this article I am happy to at least make sure his views get a fair representation, though in this case I think we reached a neutral and balanced article with [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jimmy_Wales&oldid=154465216 this] version, the last I edited. Its been reverted so I am going to add an NPOV tag as I wont be edit warring over this again for at least 24 hours as that is no solution, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 23:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::How is the version you cited above neutral and balanced? Just for the record, you believe Sanger did not help found Wikipedia and Wales is the sole founder, is that correct? --[[User:Threeafterthree|Tom]] 23:40, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:If what Jimbo says about Sanger being a subordiante employee is true I absolutely think that, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 00:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

::I don't think it is as clear cut as you (or Jimbo) wants it to be. If I give you money and resources and then stand back while you create SqueakBox Industries, then you are the creator in the "sweat-of-the-brow" sense, even if you didn't bankroll the project. The Wikipedia case is more ambiguous since Jimbo was actively involved in setting the direction of things, even though probably not with the same day to day intensity that Sanger had. If Sanger had been identified as a manager or employee (rather than as a founder) in the early press coverage, then that probably would have been fine. However, various pieces created during the early history of Wikipedia did refer to Sanger as a "founder" along with Wales, and that suggests either that Jimbo was comfortable sharing the credit at that time, or that Jimbo wasn't paying close attention to what people were saying (including Wikipedia's own press releases, e.g. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Press_releases/January_2002]). Fostered by the press releases and such stalwarts of reporting as the NY Times, many people acquired the perception that Jimbo and Sanger amicably and openly shared credit for founding Wikipedia (Jimbo for his bankroll and guiding influence and Sanger for his day-to-day management). Since no apparent attempts to change that perception were made until after Sanger left the organization, the subsequent efforts have been percieved as revisionist and more than a little spiteful, hence the controversy. (And frankly, if Jimbo really never did try to "correct" the press coverage until well after Larry left, then he deserves that criticism.) [[User:169.229.142.185|169.229.142.185]] 00:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

:::Well SqueakBox is my name (or my nick) but if I get employees to do something that I pay them to do and I take the boss role, indicating how to solve the problems as they arise, showing them how to resolve them etc, how to initiate processes that do that etc then its my baby. And I would not claim to be the founder of TV Genius (whom I work for albeit I havent been paid so far because I am ashare holder) nor expect anyone other than the real founder to do so, so I am basing this stance on my real exoperience of life as both boss and employee, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 00:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

::::And I would assume that TV Genius hasn't been issuing press releases calling you a founder. However, there are Wikipedia press releases over three seperate years (2002-2004) in which Wales and Sanger are jointly referred to as founders. Wales bankrolled things, but I think the perception many people formed is that they operated as partners rather than employee/employer. [[User:169.229.142.185|169.229.142.185]] 01:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

:::::That is certainly true. But there are bits of TV Genius that i would claim (basically our video clip collection) and equally there may be bits of wikipedia that Sanger can claim, ie the specific work he did for the project as an employee. But that doesnt make him the founder, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 02:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::There is a controversy and we can report that controversy (but not in the opening) including the press statements, but that is about it, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 02:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

The status quo is perfectly fine. If we're not sure & Jimbo Wales & Larry Sanger disagree, then we should leave it as a controversy. If the sources are not supportive nor responsive to the facts/questions we seek, then again we leave them as controversies. ([[User:Wikimachine|Wikimachine]] 02:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC))

==Capitalization==
Why is there capitals in the first sentence? American can be american and Internet should be internet, right? thnx ([[User:86.82.184.75|86.82.184.75]] 19:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC))
:Both are proper nouns and should be capitalized. [[User:Nufy8|Nufy8]] 19:15, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Question ==

Am i allowed to remove vandalism warnings, copyright image notices, etc, from my user talk page?
[[This|User:Yamakiri]] user has threatened to permanently protect my user talk page so that i cant edit it. Can i remove copyright image notices at least? i hope you see this soon. thx [[User:Modelun88|Modelun88]] 00:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:I'm not an admin, I'm just requesting it. And, you should post it at the help desk or something. Besides you're removing vandalism and block notices [[User:Yamakiri|Yamakiri]] 00:39, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::He's right Modelun, you cannot remove vandalism and or block notices. Why would you want to remove them anyway? → [[User:Jackrm|jacĸrм ]]( [[User_talk:Jackrm| talk]] | [[User:Jackrm/Signatures| sign]] ) 00:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Actually while discouraged there's nothing explicitly banning the removal of warnings from your own talk page. Primarily because the admins don't like the messy edit wars that result when someone tries to revert the removal of warnings and also because of the difficulty with defining what is acceptable given the clear allowance for removing inappropriate warnings and for archiving. So if someone removes warnings discourage them but don't revert or imply it's forbidden (since it's not). Block notices are probably a different matter though. I don't know what this has to do with the Jimmy Wales article in any case. If you were intending to ask Jimbo Wales then as the big header says at the top, this isn't the place nor is there a need to ask Jimbo such a question [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] 19:03, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

== Can anybody explaine to me why Bomis or whatever is controversial? ==

Sure, if you're an 80 year old conservative it's controversial. ya, i'm taking it out. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 01:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Jimmy Wales

2007-09-15T01:20:53Z

Duff man2007: /* Can anybody explaine to me why Bomis or whatever is controversial? */ new section

Talk:Jimmy Wales

2007-09-15T01:20:52Z

Duff man2007: /* Can anybody explaine to me why Bomis or whatever is controversial? */ new section

Talk:John Lennon

2007-09-15T00:46:00Z

Duff man2007: /* can we find a decent picture of john lennon? */ new section

{{WPBeatles
|class=B
|
|living =no
|apple =yes
|john =yes
|also-beatles =yes
|musician=yes
|bio-importance =Top
|listas=Lennon, John
}}

{| class="infobox" width="200px"
!align="center"|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]] [[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]
----
|-
|
*[[/Archive 1|March 2004]]
*[[/Archive 2|May 2006]]
*[[/Archive 3|November 2006]]
*[[/Archive 4|January 2007]]
|}

==Citations==
I have started to put "citations needed" into the article, because it needs them. You can find a lot of them on the McCartney page (and the links pages) and copy them over to here. [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 19:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes more citations from Albert Goldman's lovely biography: "The Lives of John Lennon" where Goldman claims Mr Lennon picked up male prostitutes in Thailand; and had an affair with Brian Epstein. A professional knowledgable author!? Did Mr Goldman do professional research on either this book or "Elvis". I doubt it but these references must be included in the Lennon biography if this kind of slanderous stuff is also being printed over in the Elvis article. There are users on Wikipedia who are biased so are favouring some celebrities over others when it comes to editing.--[[User:Suzulu|Suzulu]] 03:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

My account is to knew, but I can clear up several citation needed comments.

Specically - Under 1960-1970
Lennon told Rolling Stone that '...Let It Be ("That film was set up by Paul, for Paul")...'
and
'Lennon told Rolling Stone, "I was a fool not to do what Paul did, which was use it to sell a record,"

Both items can be validated on the Rolling Stone - Lennon podcast available at Rolling Stones website. The whole interview is a 3-4 hour recording from 1970(?), that I highly recommend. If in 4 days this isn't changed I'll adjust this myself. The interview itself should be included in the notes, as it's readily available at Rolling Stones website.

This statement (under Recreational Drug Use) "Lennon largely abandoned his leadership role under the influence of LSD and Timothy Leary's book The Psychedelic Experience, believing he needed to "lose his ego" to become enlightened." can also be cited as being confirmed on the Rolling Stone interview.[[User:Littleoracle|Littleoracle]] 21:48, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

The statement that "On one occasion, when asked if Ringo Starr was "the best drummer in the world", Lennon replied, "He isn't even the best drummer in The Beatles"," needs citation, doesn't it? Most Lennon interviews are well documented. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm sure Jasper Carrott or somebody used to make that joke as part of their act, so it's possible that naming John as the source could be incorrect. As I understand it, Ringo replaced Pete Best because he was an excellent drummer, and the popular misconception that he was talentless doesn't need strengthening, particularly when he was clearly good enough to be the drummer in a band who obviously had a great deal of success. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.96.182.60|88.96.182.60]] ([[User talk:88.96.182.60|talk]]) 14:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 
: It does need sourcing but I think Lennon did actually say this, it's been quoted in numerous Beatles books and he's supposed to have said it at a press conference in the States. He apparently regretted saying it later, because although he intended it as a joke, it sounded as though he was putting down Ringo. Jaspar Carrott may well have used the line in his act but he was probably just repeating Lennon's joke (it probably went down better than his other Lennon joke which he used in the States, suggesting that while the British took American stars like Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra "to our hearts", the British sent Lennon to America and "you shot him" - he was booed off after saying that). Ringo was a perfectly good drummer, he wasn't outstanding or technically brilliant, but he was very reliable and had a great feel. Plus his unusual fills, as well as his innovative playing on 'Rain', 'She Said She Said', and 'A Day in the Life', were quite influential on drummers, as plenty of drummers today will tell you. People put Ringo down because he wasn't one of the great rock drummers like Moon or Bonham but that rather misses the point, their style would not have suited the Beatles, they were a pop four-piece dedicated to balance, subtlety and nuance, most of the songs would have sounded ridiculous with a Moon or a Bonham pounding and thrashing away behind the rest of the band. Critics with little musical sense don't understand that. Lennon appreciated Ringo a great deal, but unfortunately that quote has been hyped by some as evidence that the Beatles themselves did not rate Ringo and that Lennon must have rated McCartney higher as a drummer (which is highly unlikely) when it was actually meant as nothing more than a joke. I don't think it bothered Ringo but I believe Lennon wished he hadn't said it. [[User:MarkB79|MarkB79]] 18:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

==Style==
As Kingboyk rightly changed the Macca article to sub-sections, I believe Lennon's should mirror it. It would give this article the same feel, and look, and would make it easier to read. Slap me with a wet fish if disgruntled... [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 19:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC) I have done some bits, but it needs more work. [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 20:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

:I have moved more stuff, but it still needs a good sweep with a large brush. [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 18:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

::Note to editors: Delete all adjectives, such as 'great', 'brilliant', and 'iconoclastic'. The people 'upstairs' frown upon these words, and will "waggle their eyebrows at you" (copyright: LessHeard vanU :)) [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 04:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

<s>It needs a section on his drugtaking (which was copious).</s>[[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 17:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

<s>I'm sorting the sections out before adding anything new from books.</s> [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 17:34, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

<s>A lot of stuff from May Pang should go in his solo career.</s> [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 17:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I am up to The Beatles. I am putting in a lot of citations from Cynthia at the moment, because it's hard to balance three books at the same time on the edge of the desk. [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 15:16, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

==[[John Lennon]]==

Happy New Year [[Andreasegde]] I'm not sure if you meant to or not, but you deleted the family section from the[[John Lennon]]artical. I have reverted it back...but justed wanted to give you a heads-up. Once again "Happy New Year" [[User:Shoessss|Shoessss]] 18:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

:Bugger me - He won't do that again, by crikey... [[User:Andreasegde|Plinky Plonky Plink Plonk]] 21:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

"ex-Beatles ''since the lads had waved farewell'' at Candlestick Park". Do me a lemon... [[User:Andreasegde|Imagine all the users]] 19:51, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I would like to ask if anybody else thinks the part about J.L. being born during an air raid should be dropped, mostly because it can not be proven right (Liverpool Echo did not report any raids the next day) and because it is irrelevant in many ways. Somebody in Germany might be able to check out Luftwaffe records? Anyways, cool sounding legends are not ment for Encyclopedias? Hh75

I changed the 'Family section' to 'Personal Life' as since so much derogatory passages from Albert Goldman's book "Elvis" have been included in the Elvis article it is only fair that derogatory passages from Albert Goldman's book: "The Lives of John Lennon" be included in this Lennon article. Note this Professor's claim that Lennon had homosexual relationships. If users are allowed to put Goldman's implications about Elvis' sexuality in that article then Goldman's remarks about Lennon's have to be in this article. Do not delete.--[[User:Suzulu|Suzulu]] 05:50, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

==Albert Goldman's book on Lennon==
Very interesting that no passages from Albert Goldman's 'The Lives of John Lennon'. has been quoted in this article. Goldman stated that Lennon was homosexual. However,no one feared printing derogatory passages from Albert Goldman's book 'Elvis' in Presley's bio on this very same site. Biased anyone? Wikipedia is very unprofessional.
~~Suzulu~~
:Goldman's book is thoroughly discussed in a separate Wikipedia article: See [[The Lives of John Lennon]]. Perhaps some information from this book can also be included in the main article on Lennon. [[User:Onefortyone|Onefortyone]] 01:52, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

==Length==
*80% of the humour section should be in 'Wikiquote'. It's 573 words at the moment.
*Activism is 916.
*Christianity is 507.
*Solo career was 920. He only had five years of it... It's now 781.
*Murder was 1,033. It's now 870.

OK, his 'Early years' is 874, but The Beatles is only 878. (I know, I know... Family life is 1,563.) [[User:Andreasegde|Me - who else would it be??]] 23:52, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

*9,186 words, after cutting. Far too much.

:I concur. Also, I oppose to young people using the word "gay" referring to homosexuality. Back in my day "gay" meant to be happy and carefree. I don't mind telling you when I declared at my local that, having won £2.64 at dominos, I felt "Gay as a gander." The youngsters gave me the strangest looks, and one burly biker raped me in the stalls. Oxford English Dicitonary - revise your policy!--[[User:Crestville|The Rt. Hon. Basil Massingbird-Massingbird-Baden-Massingbird MBE (deceased)]] 02:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

::Uhh, I do so love a man that concurs... [[User:Andreasegde|Burly biker]] 15:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

== Uploading the Lennon/Chapman Photograph ==

Oddly, the section that speaks of his assassination ignores the photograph taken of John signing Chapman's LP as he left the Dakota
earlier in the evening. I added a sentence mentioning it, but I think it would be more powerful if someone upload it and added it to the article. I would, but I don't know how. A Google Image search will turn up numerous results for the photograph in question. -Notahippie76

:To be really honest, I think that a lot of people would prefer that Chapman could be erased from history. He can't be, of course, but putting a photo of him on this page would be cementing his image in people's minds, and would be thought of as distasteful. Let him rot where he is, and don't give him what he craved the most; being famous. This is only my opinion.

:P.S. If someone killed a loved one of yours, would you want a photo of them on a page? [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 04:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

::Actually, the photo in question has been on and off of this page numerous times. There may be a copyright question, or it may have disappeared because it is so disturbing - I'm not really sure - I neither added it nor removed it. Some people have suggested that Chapman's name not even be mentioned in the article, but obviously we have to think like an encyclopedia, so the name appears. The photo, to me, adds only to the utter senselessness and viciousness of the crime - two things I don't personally need added to, because I never forget either one - to see Lennon extending a kindness that he didn't have to do to the man who a few hours later would murder him in cold blood is physically sickening. But the photo certainly is a powerful reminder of just how awful the crime was, if anyone really needs that reminder. I'm not going to look for it or upload it, and I probably won't remove it either - but no promises. I researched the "combat stance" phrase a few months ago, re-reading the contemporaneous newspaper account - and as I said then, I never wanted to re-read that New York Times article and I never will read it again. It doesn't get any easier, more than 25 years later. This is just my opinion as well. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] | [[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 06:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

== Winston Churchill is NOT John Lennon's paternal grandfather. Can this be removed? ==

I tried unsuccessfully to corroborate that Winston Churchill was John Lennon's paternal grandparent, as is stated in this article, as I had never heard this before. Instead, I discovered that (according to the Liverpool Lennons' Family Tree: http://www.lennon.net/familytree/sub/jack_lennon.shtml )
Jack Lennon (1855-1917) of Co. Fermanagh, Northern Ireland was the Paternal Grandfather of John Lennon. Is it possible to have the text relating to the Churchill relationship removed? [[User:GRSUS|GRSUS]] 11:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Please Note. John Lennon's paternal grandfather was born in Liverpool 1855. A little research would show this. Forget all the books and websites. Check it out for yourself. [[User:Brakn|Brakn]] 14:48, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

:Hmmm... how to put this. Okay - you, um, might have saved yourself a bit of trouble if you had read that line more carefully. I think the word "and" is meant to suggest that there are '''two''' separate people being referred to. Hope that helps. :) [[User:Cgingold|Cgingold]] 17:04, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

::I will make it a bit clearer. [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 13:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

:::I bet if you asked May Pang she'd corroborate Grandpa Winnie... [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] | [[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 21:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

::::May Pang corroborated John in the undergarments dept... :) [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 11:08, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

A pity, really. The idea of Freddie Lennon as the product of a tryst between the First Lord of the Admiralty and Elizabeth Lennon has a certain appeal. [[User:Raymond arritt|Raymond Arritt]] 03:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

:It could have changed history:

:"We shall defend The Beatles - whatever Brian Epstein's percentage may be. We shall have photos of us taken on the beaches and on mountains, we shall bow to the public at all our concerts, we shall talk about vegetarianism in the fields and break telephone boxes in the streets of Liverpool, and we shall live in large houses; we shall be the toppermost of the poppermost. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our fight, and so bear ourselves that, if The Beatles last for a thousand years, men (and women) will still say, 'This was their finest album.' " [[User:Andreasegde|Dr. Winston O'Boogie]] 22:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

==Christianity, Part II==
[[Christianity Today]] ([http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/januaryweb-only/001-22.0.html
]) reports that Lennon wrote to [[Oral Roberts]] in 1972, expressing regret for his earlier remark about Jesus. Lennon further wrote: “I want out of hell”. This began a correspondence of several letters between Lennon and Roberts. Lennon later announced to friends that he had become a born-again Christian. Yoko was appalled, and did everything she could to destroy his newfound faith. By his death in 1980, Lennon no longer considered himself a Christian.

== Re: England & the United Kingdom ==

'''Attention:''' All editors who may wish to remove ''either'' "England" or "United Kingdom/UK" from Lennon's place of birth.

Please take note of the fact that BOTH of these designations are included for a very simple reason: in order to provide '''correct and complete''' information to readers. Neither alone is complete. '''End of discussion.'''

Therefore, be advised that any future edit that removes either designation from Lennon's place of birth will be considered [[WP:VANDAL|Vandalism]]. Any editor, whether sincerely motivated or simply a [[Wikipedia:What is a troll|Troll]], who disregards this warning and persists in deleting either the birthplace data, or the "invisibile text note" pertaining to this issue, will be reported for [[WP:DE|Disruptive editing]].

[[User:Cgingold|Cgingold]] 16:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
:<blockquote>"'''End of discussion.'''"</blockquote> Like fuck it is. Please point me toward a WP policy or even any Beatles related talkpage where a concensus was reached. As it happens I agree that both should be included, but I do not care for your arrogant attitude. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC) '''Start of Discussion.'''

::Sorry, that was me who voted him judge and jury. I also died and made him boss. I dunno what I was doing, I was on an e. But, sadly, unless you want to argue diminished responsibility on my part, he now has ultimate power of judge AND jury on wikipedia (and if I remeber correctly, myspace and google too). He told me if I voted for him, he would alter the Oasis article so that ''Be Here Now'' - ''Heathen Chemistery'' never happened. I feel such a fool. By the way, I think he may have ambitions to change articles so the Hitler never died and Godzilla is real, which would be bad news for all of us.[[User:Crestville|Crestville (just helping LessHeard vanU stick the knife in that bit deeper)]]

:::To Mr. [[User:Cgingold|Cgingold]]: Mr. Lennon was born in [[Liverpool]] (Northern England) [[England]], but not in [[Great Britain]] and the [[United Kingdom]]—and in that order. Anybody that disagrees with with that will have to buy me a pint, and stand in the corner with a hat on their head that reads, "I am ignorant of the basic rules concerning birth places". [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 16:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

:::This makes my blood boil... Lennon was NOT born in [[Great Britain]] (which means Scotland, England and Wales) or the [[UK]] (which includes Northern Ireland). He was born in England. Now shut up and put some in-line citations in, or I will feed your dog something unpleasant. You can now report me for being a vandal. [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 16:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::I guess no-one has EVER been born in America then, right? Only California, Florida, Texas etc? What a freakin' moron..... [[User:86.17.211.191|86.17.211.191]] 00:42, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
::::I have to say I disagree about the naming of the place of birth; whilst all four (six including Sutcliffe and Best) were born in the '''country''' of England they were also born in the '''nation''' of the United Kingdom. I would include both. Think of the United Arab Emirates; we refer to the cities and citizens as UAE, whereas they may think of themselves and their cities as belonging to a particular Emirate. In Wikipedia the correct distinction is nation/nationality, and divisions by country/emirate is a geographical indicator. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::If a person is born in England, then so be it—otherwise the list goes on and on: Born in (hospital of your choice) [[Liverpool]], in the county of [[Lancashire]], [[northern England]], the [[Kingdom of England]], [[Great Britain]] (but not born in [[Scotland]] or [[Wales]]) the [[UK]] (but not born in [[Northern Ireland]]) the [[Commonwealth]], the [[European Union]], [[Europe]], the [[Northern Hemisphere]], [[Earth]]. Take your pick. I am a citizen of the UK, but I wasn't born in it, as that would mean I was born in four of the above at the same time.

:::::P.S. The [[United Arab Emirates]] is a collection of states, and not countries, as is the USA, which has one capital. The UK has four.

:::::P.P.S. I could imagine an interesting conversation with a drunken Scotsman, Welshman, or a Northern Irishman on a saturday night in their home countries. :)) [[User:Andreasegde|Major Sniffley, BSC (Bronze Swimming Certificate)]] 12:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::The historical country England is a good geographical indicator of which part of the United Kingdom you come from, Liverpool is better and Wooton too detailed, but you are still a British subject and international law defines you as from the United Kingdom. Since Wikipedia is an international reference we need to apply the same standard of national identity as any other nation.
::::::As for the Emirates, they are not states they are soveriegn countries each with an Emir who have constitutionally joined together and are ruled by one of the Emirs on a rotating basis (although it does tend to make them dizzy). The constitution of each Emirate has been amended to reflect their confederated status. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 13:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC) ps. re pps Wouldn't they need to shout a bit, as there is no common borders?

I think this discussion has got silly. Can't we just put ''Liverpool, England''? Or do I just win £5? [[User:Crestville|Crestville (born 5 August 1986, Maternity Ward, Leed Royal Infirmary, Leeds, West Yorkshire, Yorkshire, northern England, England, Great Britain and/or United Kingdom, Europe, Northern Hemisphere, Earth, Inner Planets, The Solar System, [The Magic's in] The Milky Way, The Local Group, An ever expanding universe which it taken to be infinate, Rutland) I think I've made my point]]

:You little rascal - I was also born in the Maternity Ward, of Leeds Royal Infirmary! If we have the same mother I claim £5. BTW, I talked to a Northern Irish guy today, and he said he would definitely ''never'' say he was born in the UK. I think it's us people born in merry old England what uses that UK term thingy, and not our celtic brethren in the colonies. [[User:Andreasegde|Nurse Longbottom (Nurses against bedpans protesters' group)]] 17:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

::What this all means is: 1. I am waiting for Freddie and Julia to go through GAR, so I'm bored. 2. I should do some bleedin' editing and stop being flippant and pedantic at the same time (which brings me out in a rash). 3. I have finally found something to disagree with LessHeard vanU about (which leaves me feeling all confused and also interested because of the intellectual stimulation it gives one). 4. There is no four. [[User:Andreasegde|If you put a Leeds United fan inside a room by himself for one hour, he will come out with a black eye and a fractured jaw.]] 17:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
:::How people may choose to label themselves is not the point, it is how the international community sees a citizen. We may be considered ''Limeys'', ''Brits'', ''Poms'' or ''Running Lackey Dogs of Imperialism'', but the vote in the [[United Nations]] records the Nation as the United Kingdom, as it does in the [[Eurovision Song Contest]]. To top even that intellectual cudgel of an argument, I wish to put forward the unanswerable logic of '''My Mam is Bigger than your Mam!'''. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

::::I surrender to your logic, and infinite wisdom, but.... (Oh bugger - he's off again) my passport reads (as yours does):

EUROPEAN UNION

UNITED KINGDOM OF

GREAT BRITAIN

AND NORTHERN IRELAND

(which doesn't even mention Scotland the Brave and Tom Jones' birthplace). Whatever... I'm off back to the minor articles, and to keep my head down out of the line of fire. [[User:Andreasegde|My Grandad had a wooden leg, and my dad was left with one little toe on his right foot after an industrial accident.]] 17:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
:(mumble)No, Wales is not mentioned as it is a [[Principality]] subject to English jurisdiction ... However the United Kingdom referred to above is that of Scotland and England, ie one Kingdom made from two countries, ''plus'' Northern Ireland whose constititional standing cannot easily be given.
:I don't have a passport. I have to cross the [[River Tamar]] by nefarious means. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 23:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

::lol, good times. You weren't by any chance born on the 5th August 1986 were you? We could be twins separated at birth. If you've got the other half of the amulet bequited to me by my mother, then that would answer a lot - she left me on a doorstep in Thronton with a swtichblade, a bottle of scoth and a note saying "''please look after my baby - I can't be bothered''." Incedently, if you look out of the window of the maternity ward you can see a pub across the street named "Joseph's Well". I believe this to be a major factor in my Dad's choice of name for his fist born. [[User:Crestville|My Grandfather Lost His Tounge in WW2. He never talked about it]]
:::Unlikely, since there would surely be some record of a birth of one male infant and one male adult in the region of 26 years... Although it may give some indication of why Mam (who was then recently bigger than '''any''' other Mam) was so reluctant to continue with childcare. [[User:LessHeard vanU|Mark]] 20:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

::::OK, I will continue this happy state of mind. My Grandad lost his leg in the [[Mining|pit]], My Dad (who was always taller than me until he was horizontal in the box) lost four toes on a conveyor belt in the [[Mining|pit]], and my brother Michael lost four toes whilst driving a petrol-driven lawnmower over his expansive lawn. Look at the Lennon's tradition below. The Lennon's lose their fathers, but we lose limbs. Bugger. [[User:Andreasegde|My leg itches, but it's not there]] 22:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

That's almost macabre--[[User:Crestville|Crestville]] 13:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

:I forgot: My dear old Mam had most of her toes chopped off because of an arthritis problem. That goes under extremities, and not limbs, though. Do two hip replacements on her count as well? My eldest brother only has one kidney. We're losing body parts faster than you can say..... [[User:Andreasegde|Quick nurse, the screens!.]] 17:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

==Family tradition==
Freddie's father died when he was nine. Freddie left Julia when John was five. John left Cynthia when Julian was five. John was shot when Sean was five. Maybe wait for Julian and Sean to have kids before continuing... [[User:Andreasegde|Daddy come home... from the pub]] 17:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

um, if freddie was 9 how is that a tradition, if everyone was 5?

:Oh bugger, I slipped that one in to see if anyone would notice. It still means that the fathers left when the wee bairns were young-ish. [[User:Andreasegde|egde]] 22:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

== Royal Variety ==

I've removed the "numerous" from "numerous members of...Royalty". Only the Queen Mother, Princess Margeret and Lord Snowdon attended, so there were only three members of the family, even if you count Lord Snowdon. [[User:Apepper|Apepper]] 23:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

== Memorials and Tributes (Elton John + Clarity) ==

Maybe it's just me, but in this section it says:

Elton John mourned the loss of John Lennon in his 1982 hit "Empty Garden (Hey Hey Johnny)", from his Jump Up! album. '''John''' exclaimed, "As the New York Sunset disappeared, I found an empty garden among the flagstones there, Who lived here, He must have been a gardener that cared a lot."

Hmmmmm... Methinks it would be better to be a bit clearer on this subject; Elton '''John''' and '''John''' Lennon. For a weird moment I thought Lennon was talking from beyond the grave about Elton John's song! I suggest changing "John exclaimed" to "The lyrics" or something else.

Who agrees with me on here? Or am I just being thick - it seems to me that somebody could get the wrong impression or think it was a mistake. [[User:Liamshaw|Liamshaw]] 10:34, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

:Liamshaw, you are totally right — change it. Should it be, Elton John sang?... [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 16:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

::I couldn't help myself; I changed it, but I think it needs a citation. [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 16:21, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

:::Thanks - much obliged. Memo to self: BE BOLD AND DO IT YOURSELF! I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure. I've added the citation.. I think. [[User:Liamshaw|Liamshaw]] 23:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

::::What about, be bold and do it TO yourself? [[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 17:18, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

==Image==
It seems that the image at the top of the page has been removed, would there be any chance of a replacement being posted? [[User:Doobuzz|Doobuzz]] 22:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
:I have replaced the image with [[Image:Lennon 01.jpg|50px]]. It's a bit low in resolution, but fine for the article. [[Image:Huskyeye.jpg]] [[User:Husky|Husky]] ([[User_talk:Husky|talk page]]) 17:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
::I should point out that this is an ugly picture of John. We can get cuter pics then this!

== Picture ==
JOHN Lennon was shot 5 times not 4.

Change the Image —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Peterkeith99|Peterkeith99]] ([[User talk:Peterkeith99|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peterkeith99|contribs]]) 05:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

:This user is known as a vandal. [[User:Andreasegde|ThE bEaTLeS aka andreasegde]] 00:35, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

== [[We didn't start the fire]] ==
He's not good enough to mention in there(death).--[[User:69.113.131.124|69.113.131.124]] 22:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

==Instruments John Lennon Played==

John Lennon did play piano accordion to some degree as is mentioned in other parts of the encyclopedia. [[User:Dr accordion|Dr accordion]] 22:58, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

:True. It is quoted in [[Julia Lennon]] that she taught him the piano accordion. [[User:Andreasegde|ThE bEaTLeS aka andreasegde]] 20:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

==GA==
This could easily be a GA if a little more work was done on it. It was started in '''2002''', BTW... [[User:Andreasegde|ThE bEaTLeS aka andreasegde]] 00:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Typical. Where is the "smaller group of people" when you need them? "Workshy" is the word... [[User:Andreasegde|ThE bEaTLeS aka andreasegde]] 01:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
:There are poor sections in it, yeah, but you're right.--'''[[User:HisSpaceResearch|h i s]]''' ''[[User talk:HisSpaceResearch|s p a c e]]'' '''[[Special:Contributions/HisSpaceResearch|r e s e a r c h]]''' 13:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

== What was John Lennon's belief? ==

Was Lennon an atheist, an agnostic, a buddhist, a humanist or what? Is there anything known about that? —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/213.196.244.74|213.196.244.74]] ([[User talk:213.196.244.74|talk]]) 02:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC).
:"[[God (John Lennon song)|God]]?" [[User:John Cardinal|John Cardinal]] 02:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
::The best answer to the question "was Lennon an atheist, an agnostic, a buddhist, a humanist or what?" is "yes". [[User:Raymond arritt|Raymond Arritt]] 04:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

== Rolling Stone's 38th place ==

Can I suggest that the inclusion or exclusion of this fact is discussed here, rather than by reversions to the article with or without edit summaries? Once consensus is reached, reversions can refer to this discussion. This is an issue with POV ramifications and likely to be controversial, so definitely should be done by consensus. --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] 16:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
:Rolling Stone is a well respected resource and the quote had been in some time before someone felt affronted about a supposed ''lowly'' placing. It should stay, since the argument of ''"Well, '''I''' don't like it"'' is facile.[[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 20:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
The Rolling Stone listing is meaningless nonsense and shouldn't be included. Frankly I'm mystified how on earth they reached that conclusion. POV is irrelevant, Lennon was '''''clearly''''' more important to the world of music than 38th place. He was the leading member of the [[Beatles]] for God's sake!!! You don't have to be an obsessive fan to realise that. Please remove this ridiculous, mind-numbingly annoying citation... it makes my blood boil every time I look at this page and see it there. The BBC citation which comes before this is fine, just use that one.
[[User:Wjfox2005|Wjfox2005]] 18:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
:The trouble with truth, and statistics, is that you can only have the whole and not the part that suits a particular viewpoint; ''The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.'' Rolling Stone's placing should stay, since it is a well regarded publication that reflects an American view of popular culture while the BBC reflects a perhaps more broad section of British public opinion. As a personal opinion I think Lennon was a immensely talented and articulate individual and I don't need opinion polls to tell me what he means to me. He also had a few things to say about facing up to truth, even if it is painful. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 20:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Sam Cooke, The Ramones and Bo Diddley are more significant than John Lennon...... er, yeah right.
[[User:Wjfox2005|Wjfox2005]] 00:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
:Sam Cooke; perhaps. The Ramones, no. Bo Diddley, emphatically yes. No Bo = no Buddy Holly = No Beatles = No John Lennon... Significant is the word here, not popular/favourite. That said, this is just my opinion. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 12:50, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
----
Wjfox2005, we are recording evidence, not facts/truth. No one really knows how influential Lennon was or is. He may be #1 in your book and others, or a lower number to other people. It's notable that RS—one of the leading magazines during Lennon's career—put him at 38. Right or wrong from your POV, the RS ranking should stay. [[User:John Cardinal|John Cardinal]] 05:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

:"we are recording evidence, not facts/truth." Like, you're kidding about that, right? [[User:212.241.67.98|212.241.67.98]] 14:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
::Absolutely not kidding! Rolling Stone reckons Lennon is the 38th most significant individual... Is that a fact, or the truth? Well, yes and no; I don't agree, Wjfox certainly doesn't agree and John Cardinal may or may not agree. It is, however, the position of Rolling Stone and that is a reputable published source. So we cite the evidence of the existence of that published listing. It isn't, I realise, the easiest of concepts to understand, but it is the Wiki way. Someone, somewhere, writes something notable and Wikipedia references it. What we ''believe'' does not matter. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 20:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
----

Well then, since the Beatles were #1 in that list, can't we add a small bit at the end, so it reads - ''"In 2004, Rolling Stone ranked Lennon number 38 on their list of "The Immortals: The Fifty Greatest Artists of All Time" and ranked the Beatles at number 1."''

or...

...just leave out the "38" figure altogether so it says ''"In 2004, Rolling Stone ranked Lennon among their list of "The Immortals: The Fifty Greatest Artists of All Time".''

Please... I'm begging you here. Either of these 2 compromises would be fine with me.
[[User:Wjfox2005|Wjfox2005]] 11:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

----

I am fine with mentioning the Beatles' place on the list. It probably had an effect on lennon's ind. position, tho we should let the user decide on his or her own about that. [[User:John Cardinal|John Cardinal]] 12:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

For balance, this fact should be included. Even if they'd placed him 383rd, it should be included. Excluding it is POV that the journal was wrong or misguided. --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] 14:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Then you don't object to my first option?
[[User:Wjfox2005|Wjfox2005]] 15:43, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
:Not at all. I think it's the very essence of balance! --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] 15:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

== 'O' Level Grades edit query ==

Were there different grades at 'O' Level in Lennons time? I believe that in the 50's and 60's you either passed or failed, and the later C grade was at the old pass mark. I have left a question over at the GCE page, but think I might get more responses here. I also think that the edit is ill-founded in that the original edit may have been talking about the ''11+'' exam, which determined if you went to Grammer School or ''Secondary Modern''/''Technical College'' (which is what Liverpool Art College may have been). I have no idea if the 11+ was graded as I didn't do that, although I did do 'O' Levels in the mid 70's. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 11:33, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

== Eric Clague ==

Regarding young John’s bereavement when his Mum was run over and killed by a drunk copper, I quite fancy putting in the copper’s name into the article using a bit more detail. It was a life changing moment (certainly for Julia), and probably accounts for a lot of Lennon’s anger. Can we do this, or would it be slanderous? --[[User:Patthedog|Patthedog]] 10:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
:No, it wouldn't be libelous, truth would be the defence, but I cannot see the point. Lennon would be 67 had he lived, and it thus happened 62 years ago. As I recall from my reading of "Shout" the copper was a senior officer which meant he would have been thirties minimum and more likely forties... If he was still alive he would be in his nineties at least, and he is most likely dead. I don't think it would bring anything to the article, and those interested can find the references and the name. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 22:22, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
::Lennon must have been older than five when [[Julia Lennon|Julia]] died. I think?--[[User:Crestville|Crestville]] 01:29, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
:::I’m not saying war crimes and witch hunts or suchlike. I was only concerned that his name might have been deliberately left out. If so, why? Lennon was fourteen when it happened. Anyway, sleeping dogs and all that. --[[User:Patthedog|Patthedog]] 08:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
::::I think it is more pertinent that he was a police officer, and never prosecuted, than what his name was. Giving his name indicates the source has been read, but giving a cite to the reference means the same thing. Just my opinion. Perhaps name and cite?
::::Yeah, sorry about the age thing. I was so chuffed at managing to do my sums I completely fluffed on facts.... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 11:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
:::::No, you’re right, leave it alone. I couldn’t do it anyway, as I can’t trust my motives. I get angry whenever I look into it. --[[User:Patthedog|Patthedog]] 14:01, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
::::::Put in reference cite to name, low key.--[[User:Patthedog|Patthedog]] 11:24, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Cool. The truth is served. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 11:53, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

::::::::Didn't John Lennon donate bullet-proof vests to the NYPD not long before he died? If so, that seems significant in light of that. Apparently he tried to let go of any anger towards police in general. [[User:Brentt|Brentt]] 21:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Heroin Addict ==
Shouldn't there be some discussion of his heroin addiction? It seems to have been pretty significant. The whole article has a whiff of hagiography to it, which leads me to question why it was left out. Whatever his merits, he was clearly a deeply troubled individual, and it seems there ought to be more discussion of that.

:There is much information about Lennon's consumption of drugs in Albert Goldman's book, [[The Lives of John Lennon]]. Perhaps somebody can write a summary of the facts from this book. [[User:Onefortyone|Onefortyone]] 01:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

==Edits by some Albert Goldman fan==
There's an unregistered user by the name of [[user:Suzulu|Suzulu]] who's attempting to insert Goldman's allegations regarding Lennon's sexuality into this article. Goldman's book was discredited years ago, and any "information" taken from his book is essentially rumor. This same user has also been playing around with the [[Elvis Presley]] article, it appears. I've reverted Suzulu's most recent edits here, but other Wikipedians will probably have to keep an eye on him/her. [[User:J.R. Hercules|J.R. Hercules]] 03:31, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

:Is there any former celebritiy who wasn't ''allegedly'' gay?''Alleged''' gayness just automatically comes with reaching a certain level of stardom it would seem. [[User:Brentt|Brentt]] 18:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

== Change the Picture Please!!!! ==

That main pic of John is awful-it needs changing! Yuck![[User:TammiMagee|TammiMagee]] 12:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Ya, does anyone have a higher resolution, maybe colour photograph that can be used as the main picture?
:It needs to be a free image, so if anyone has one, upload it to Commons. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 06:55, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

== John's death controversy==

Nothing about the suspicions on who could have orchrested his assasination? Nothing about the CIA wanting John out of the scene? Does everyone here really believes that john was just incidentally shot by a random lunatic? He was quite a political activist, he moved a lot of people in protests against the war and government actions. He had lots of money he could have even be supporting antiwar groups. Do you relly believe that no one but this lunatic would have wanted him dead? I'm not asking to discard the offical version but also include some alternate reflexions or facts. {{unsigned|Huguinvzqz}}
:''"Does everyone here really believes that john was just incidentally shot by a random lunatic?"'' In a nutshell, yes. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC) ps. Please sign your posts.

::Don't include me in that "everyone". I read [[Fenton Bresler]]'s book, and that stop-over in Chicago was interesting, as well as the YMCA stuff in Lebanon. [[User:Andreasegde|egde]] 22:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
:::Are you aware that Fenton died in 2003? Am I really the only person who believes he was silenced by [[Secret Squirrel]] operatives concerned about a book he was writing about the expense accounts of the Austrian Embassy (in London) staff, as supplied by a Mrs Stoggs (the former Major Redvers Bludknott, hero of the Malaysian Emergency and the lesser known Stirling Not Too Pressing Problem)?
:
:
:
:::Evidently, I am! [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 22:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

::::I'll believe he's alive and well when I see a non-doctored photo of him with a copy of today's newpaper, obtained without the need for grave robbery. Of course a lunatic might want to kill John Lennon, he's a lunatic. He has no time for logic. Why would they kill Lennon - who was only a minor player - and let little [[hellion]]s like [[David Peel]] run loose?--[[User:Crestville|Crestville]] 11:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

:::::Oh, c'mon guys, nobody is advocating poison darts from umbrellas here, or plutonium sushi, but why was the FBI tapping Lennon's phone? (That is a fact). I do not like the idea that if we can't prove it (hook, line and sinker) then it ''must have been a loony''. To negate the idea that there might have been ''just a little something going on'' is to stick one's head in the sand, and also says that we trust everything we read. We have the idea that because we have the right to vote, we can somehow control who governs us. In an English court of law it's all about "reasonable doubt". I would go with that, even though it doesn't mean the issue is true or not. It's also called democracy (which is forbidden on these pages) and the right of free speech. BTW, I'm not going mad, I'm just a bit bored... [[User:Andreasegde|egde]] 18:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

::::::True as it is that the FBI and other agencies were making his life more difficult, the gunman just sat there and read. He shot him and sat down, he was apprehended and confessed without a fuss. Why would a man serve 20-to-life for some minor grudge with his politics? I remain pretty convinced this guy was a loon, now I don't know if he was somehow pushed or encouraged to go this route but without some amazing new information I've got to conclude that John was murdered by a fan in the truest since, a fanatic. [[User:75.111.37.174|75.111.37.174]] 22:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

== Did he not have a sexual relationship with Brian Epstein. ==

I think not enough of his drug use and promotion are mentioned here. [[User:Xavier cougat|Xavier cougat]] 17:16, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

:His ''promotion''? Is that sexual? Do tell... [[User:Andreasegde|egde]] 18:45, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
::Run it up the ''flagpole'' and see if anyone '''salutes'''? Perhaps, "Pips on his shoulder"? "Scrambled eggs upon his chest"? "Major Drama"? Encyclopedias, they are so full of innuendo... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 23:00, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

==Yoko's new revelations about Dec 8==
Editing in AP article details. Yoko says they came home instead of going out to eat as John wanted to see Sean before he went to sleep. Also Yoko says John did not say any "dying words"[http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/223747].[[User:Piperdown|Piperdown]] 15:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

This was said at the time of his death in 1980 as well, so why it was treated by the media as a "new revelation" escapes me. Even in Ms. ono's "John & Yoko: A Love Story" movie for CBS in 1985-6?, the Lennon character says he wants to skip eating to go home and see Sean.

[[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] 20:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

==English Atheists==

I really don't think Lennon should be on the list of English atheists. He was never entirely clear about his religious beliefs, and they seemed to change from one year to the next throughout his life. He seems to have been an atheist in the early 70's (though even then he refused to give a straight answer when asked whether he believed in God, and seemed to imply that he wasn't sure what to think), but his later statements on the subject seem to suggest he believed in some concept of 'God', in his own words he said his beliefs were similar to Zen Buddhism. As far as I am aware, he never stated that he was an atheist or that he firmly disbelieved in God, and many of his statements on the subject throughout the 70's do not appear very compatible with an atheist outlook. If anything, he appears to have been some kind of agnostic with a belief in some sort of spirituality. Having him labelled an 'English atheist' is probably very misleading. It would probably be wise not to label his religious beliefs at all. [[User:MarkB79|MarkB79]] 16:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I was surprised to see Lennon placed in this category. I've never seen any statement to confirm Lennon was an Atheist. I agree with MarkB79, Lennon went through various phases in his life regarding Religion, even been 'Born Again' at one point during the 70's, something which didn't last. - Tom 17 June 2007

:John Lennon sure was not an atheist for any significant portion of his life. The problem mainly stems from people who heard Imagine and believe that Lennon didn't think there was a heaven and hated religion. Ug. [[User:CynicofWiki|CynicofWiki]] 21:49, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:: Thanks to both of you for backing me up on that. The various athiest categories appear to have been removed thankfully. I think Lennon is kind of held up in the United States in particular by all sorts of secular humanists and athiests, including people in the sciences, as some kind of major athiest artist and commentator, largely because of 'Imagine' and the ''Plastic Ono Band'' album. Socialists often highlight Lennon's apparently athiest sentiments in 'God' and 'Imagine' approvingly, and while all these people are well-meaning and some might actually be aware of Lennon's ambigious attitude towards the question of a God and merely approve of the sentiments, I think most actually do believe he was an athiest. If Lennon was truly an athiest at any point, it was around 1970-72, when he and Yoko were heavily influenced by Janov and Marxism (and even then, as I say, when interviewed during this period he refuses to give a straight answer as to whether he believed in God). The fact is Lennon's stated views in later years are not indicitive of him being an athiest, as I say he appears to have had a belief in some concept of 'God', and stated that his spiritual beliefs where similar to Yoko's [[Zen Buddhism]]. Lennon was probably added to these categories on here by well-meaning athiests/humanists/socialists but it is very misleading to call him an athiest. It should be ensured in future that his name is kept out of these categories. [[User:MarkB79|MarkB79]] 07:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Tomorrow Never Knows ==

I remember reading (I believe it was in Rolling Stone 500 greatest albums) that the song Tomorrow Never Knows was an attempt by Lennon to distill an LSD trip into a song. Should this be mentioned in the Recreational Drug Use section? [[User:Glassbreaker5791|Glassbreaker5791]] 03:44, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

== "Fat Elvis period" - when was this? ==

When Lennon once had put on a lot of weight and had been drinking heavily, he said, "I was eating and drinking like a pig, and I was fat as a pig, dissatisfied with myself, and subconsciously I was crying for help. It was my fat-Elvis period."

The article doesn't say when this actually happened, though, or what period of his career this was, and it's a quote from a booksource. Can anyone fix this?--'''[[User:HisSpaceResearch|h i s]]''' ''[[User talk:HisSpaceResearch|s p a c e]]'' '''[[Special:Contributions/HisSpaceResearch|r e s e a r c h]]''' 10:40, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
:Thinking about it, it'd have to be not long before his death as Elvis didn't get fat until the mid-70s, right?--'''[[User:HisSpaceResearch|h i s]]''' ''[[User talk:HisSpaceResearch|s p a c e]]'' '''[[Special:Contributions/HisSpaceResearch|r e s e a r c h]]''' 10:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah, but Lennon was talking retrospectively about 1965-ish.--[[User:Crestville|Crestville]] 22:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
::I've added that to the article, but yeah, much of that section "Humour" is quotes and needs cleanup/transwiki to Wikiquote.-'''[[User:HisSpaceResearch|h i s]]''' ''[[User talk:HisSpaceResearch|s p a c e]]'' '''[[Special:Contributions/HisSpaceResearch|r e s e a r c h]]''' 14:09, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

== Lennon's Humor - "Band Manager" Quote ==
<blockquote>
Reporter: "What is it about your music that excites people so much?"
Lennon: "If we knew, we'd form another group and be managers."
</blockquote>

That was actually Ringo -- I just watched a great VH1 documentary last night called "Imagine", and they had footage of the interview where Ringo said this.

Sorry if I'm not doing this correctly -- first time wiki-user... just wanted to pass this along. thanks!

ps - Lennon's "fat and disgusting" period was ~65, right around when he wrote the song "Help!"

:I have it on tape that Lennon said, "If we knew, we'd form another group and be managers." I think Ringo nicked it. --[[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] 18:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

== Picture Takin on Day of Death ==

On the Annie Leibovitz page there is a picture of the Rolling Stone cover from the photo shoot she did the morning of the shooting. Someone should consider putting this on this page.

Thanks for adding it.

The photo from the album "Lennon Collection" was also taken by Leibovitz on 12/08/80.

[[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] 20:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

== Awards ==

Since when has John Lennon been an Acadamy Award winner?

Since 1970. The Beatles won Original Song Score for ''Let It Be''.

== Early Years ==

Shouldn't this be a bit more specific?: "He also picked on anyone who was in anyway different, using his quick wit and sense of humour to bully them."

Anyone who was "different" how? Different from him personally? Different from some sort of perceived social "norm"? And is it truly accurate/NPOV to suggest that he "picked on ANYONE different"? I haven't read the source material but this particular passage seems like it could use some work. If anyone has access to the source material, I'd suggest touching up this bit of the article. [[User:Ginnna|'''Ginnna''']] 21:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

==MBE==
I think that Lennon's returning of the MBE actually ''does'' negate the award as a refusal or delination of the honour. I am not sure we should be mentioning his MBE in the Lead. Is there confirmation that the MBE was returned? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 20:43, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
:While the physical award can of course be returned, there is no official provision for a recipient of a British honor to renounce said honor, so technically John Lennon OBE is still correct. [[User:Faithlessthewonderboy|Faithlessthewonderboy]] 22:46, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
::Can you cite that, Faithless? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 15:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I admit, I've never seen any proof, it's just what I've heard. Now that I'm looking around, I'm no longer so sure that this is the case. [http://www.honours.gov.uk/faqs.aspx This] is the best info I've found so far; I'll post here if I can find something a little more specific. [[User:Faithlessthewonderboy|Faithlessthewonderboy]] 22:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
::::The reasonI ask is that a number of entertainers have refused or returned their honours. Bowie refused a nubmer of times as had Helen Mirren. I feel uncomfortable having it in there unless we are sure he is in possession of it. Is there a list by which we can check? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 23:52, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Well I'm pretty sure he's no longer in possession of it. ;) Seriously, I don't know if there is such a list, though I haven't stopped looking. I do know that he accepted it in (I believe) 1964, and mailed it back to Merry Ol' England in 1969. Personally, even if a provision does exist whereby one can return the honor, I doubt Lennon would be bothered to go through the appropriate legal channels to formally renounce it. His returning of the medal was much more symbolic than anything else (which is why he [or his publicist or whoever] made sure that we all knew about it). Of course, this is just my opinion. [[User:Faithlessthewonderboy|Faithlessthewonderboy]] 08:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

==Removed Section==
As per the request of another contributor, I have looked over the section below and note that it is largely uncited. As per [[WP:BLP]], a greater level of citation is necessary. As this has practically no citation whatsoever, it cannot remain in the article. However, there is the chance that the information can be cited, and therefore, it has been placed here until that time. Without proper levels of [[WP:V|verifiable]], [[WP:RS|reliable]] citation, it cannot return to the article.

<blockquote>
:::::'''May Pang and the 'lost weekend''''
:::::In 1973, Yoko approached May Pang (their personal assistant) with a proposal. Ono, who thought May Pang would be an "ideal companion" for Lennon, asked her to "be with John, help him, and see that he gets whatever he wants." {{Fact|date=February 2007}} Yoko then kicked Lennon out of the house. Lennon and Pang moved to Los Angeles - a period which has been dubbed the "lost weekend", though it lasted until the beginning of 1975. During their time together, Pang encouraged Lennon to spend time with his son, Julian Lennon, and she became friends with [[Cynthia Lennon]].
:::::After arriving in [[Hollywood]], Lennon reunited with producer Phil Spector and began work on recording and some of their efforts were eventually released as part of his 'farewell' LP ''Rock 'n' Roll''. However their work together was ended by interpersonal conflict -- some sources blame this on Spector while others cite Lennon's increasingly out-of-control behaviour in the studio, which led to Lennon being banned from [[A&M Studios]] in Hollywood after the studio was repeatedly vandalised.
:::::During this time Lennon often caroused with an assortment of his drinking/drug buddies including singer/songwriter [[Harry Nilsson]], [[Keith Moon]], Ringo Starr, [[Alice Cooper]], [[Micky Dolenz]] and others, who dubbed themselves the 'Hollywood Vampires'. One of the most oft-repeated incidents was that in which Lennon and Nilsson were ejected from [[The Troubadour]] club after repeatedly heckling comedians [[The Smothers Brothers]] during their act. During the evening, a drunken Lennon was also reported to have gone into the women's toilet and emerged with a sanitary napkin on his head; when challenged by a waitress, he yelled "Don't you know who I am?" -- to which the waitress famously replied, "Yeah, you're an asshole with a Kotex on your head!".
:::::Though Lennon's public drunkenness had been the subject of gossip during 1974, Pang said that he was usually sober in his private life and recorded a large body of work. One notable session, captured on the [[bootleg recording]] ''[[A Toot and a Snore in '74]]'', had Lennon and his friends jamming with Paul McCartney. Others included on the session were [[Harry Nilsson]], [[Stevie Wonder]], [[Jesse Ed Davis]], and [[Bobby Keys]].
:::::Lennon's relationship with May Pang ended once Yoko Ono began to fear that Lennon would divorce her for Pang. It has been said that Lennon went back to Ono unwillingly, claiming in phone messages to May Pang that Yoko was forcing him to stay with her.
:::::Despite Lennon's love for May Pang, their relationship was violent on occasion. In her book, May Pang describes a time when Lennon actually threw her across a room in a rage. Upon doing this, he had burst into tears and fell to his knees beside her, begging her forgiveness.
</blockquote>
- [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 19:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
:BLP? Seriously? Lennon's dead, and this section focuses mainly on HIS actions and behaviour, not that of May Pang.... [[User:Liverpool Scouse|Liverpool Scouse]] 20:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

::Yes, Lennon is dead, but the other two folk cited in the passage - Yoko Ono and May Pang - are still amongst the living, and that the passage doesn't paint anyone in a favorable light. It requires rock-solid citation, my friend. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 04:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Fair enough, I can see that. [[User:Liverpool Scouse|Liverpool Scouse]] 14:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Agree that the section as a whole is not verified or cited. However, the part that CLEARLY has never been proven is the conjecture in the passage:
<blockquote>
:::::Lennon's relationship with May Pang ended once Yoko Ono began to fear that Lennon would divorce her for Pang. It has been said that Lennon went back to Ono unwillingly, claiming in phone messages to May Pang that Yoko was forcing him to stay with her. Despite Lennon's love for May Pang, their relationship was violent on occasion. In her book, May Pang describes a time when Lennon actually threw her across a room in a rage. Upon doing this, he had burst into tears and fell to his knees beside her, begging her forgiveness.
</blockquote>
- (''unsigned post by user:63.115.59.2'')

== The Lost Weekend Remains on this page ==

First you vandalize Ms. Pang's page, and now you're re-writing Mr. Lennon's history? Nope. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] ([[User talk:Hotcop2|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hotcop2|contribs]]) 22:38, August 26, 2007 (UTC) 

There are many vandals hovering over the Beatles-Lennon-Pang pages. They are being watched closely. 00:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
* [[User talk:Sixstring1965| Sixstring1965]][[Image:applecorps.jpg|25px]][[User talk:Sixstring1965|The Beatles Wikiproject]]

::To being with, removing the May Pang info is ''not'' vandalism. Please ask an admin to explain the difference, and how unsourced info cannot remain on a [[WP:BLP|BLP]] article. Period. It isn't a maybe situation. It is an absolute. Frankly, that anyone would want to preserve something that is completely uncited is boggling to me.
::Secondly, this is considered a content dispute. If you wish to escalate this matter by reporting my removal of the unsourced, info, please go to this [[WP:ANI|Admin noticeboard]]. I am pretty sure they are going to back me up on this, though. You could also simply read [[WP:BLP|BLP]] and [[WP:CITE]], and avoid the embarrassment. I am not trying to prevent good information from being provided to the reader. I am - and ''will'' - keep unsourced info from making it into the article. I am not trying to keep anyone from adding solid, ''verifiable, reliable, non-OR'' info to the article; I am preserving wiki policies here. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 03:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

== Lost Weekend Removed Again ==

Citing Ms. Pang's "trashy tell-all," which violates POV issues, Acrayne is attempting to eliminate the May pang entry both on this page and on May's own page. This period of Mr. Lennon's life is fairly "common knowledge" and the fact that he produced three hit albums during this period should not be ignored. The "Lost Weekend" is well documented in movies, interviews and books other than Ms. Pang's. Please beware this attempt and revisionism. [[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] 01:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:It would probably be helpful if the editor above could focus on what my actual difficulties were with the account, and perhaps stop making bad faith assumptions about my intentions. the article is largely uncited. The parts that are cited are from a "trashy tell-all" (as per the London Times review when it came out) and a collection of reminiscing by a revisionist journalist pal of Lennon's. Maybe someone could roll up their sleeves and start finding citations for the statements made that don't draw from either of these books like - oh, I don't know - actual ''reliable'' sources?
:It doesn't sem like too much to ask. However, to hear all the whining and complain ing and conspiracy theories being bandied about, you'd think I was asking them to produce the ''Lost Underpants of Jesus''™ or whatnot. It isn't revisionism. It's the need for citable sources, and more than two, highly biased ones. No one is trying to suppress anything. We demand that it be provided with sources, as per Wikipedia policy. That which is not cited in a BLP is to be removed ''immediately''. I am being polite in removing the statements to the Discussion page, giving folk to find more citations for them. Know with absolutel assuredness that many other editors could and would remove the passages with utter impunity and without a word.
:This works one of three ways from here on out, and the people who want the passages can either ignore these three options, but understand that they will happen with our without you. That may sound harsh, but there it is. 1) You can continue arguing the point until you get blocked or banned for edit-warring (one or more of you are sitting on 3RR as I write this), and an admin will come in and remove the passage completely as unreliably cited. 2) You can use this time to find citations for the passages that extend byond Pang or Kane's books (hint: newspapers and magazine articles are excellent sources for this sort of stuff. You might actually have to go to a library, as I don't know how many articles are going to be available for those without college-library abstracting resources). 3) You can work with people like me who are trying to help you find a way to keep it, rather than picking an editorial argument that you will almost certainly lose, 'coz I'll simply get you blocked/banned after a while.
:So there are your choices, fans of the Lost Weekend. Find more sources, or it is gone. Thank the less civil amongst your number for making me less willing to work with keeping it. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 02:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Will someone explain to the above editor that deleting entire entries at the insistance of someone else doesn't 'help create a better page' nor does insisting every source in 'biased' and 'sensationalist' except for those he chooses to cite with such inflammatory comments as "trashy tell-all" and interviews with people who give negative opinios about Ms. Pang -- who never met her nor Mr. Lennon, but wrote books in cooperation with Elliot Mintz and Yoko Ono. Kane's book fairly and impartially talks to both Ono and Pang, yet this, too, is not credible, according to the above editor. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] ([[User talk:Hotcop2|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hotcop2|contribs]]) 03:20, August 29, 2007 (UTC) 

Just add citation tags where need be and I will cite them as I did on the Pang page. [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]]

* [[User talk:Sixstring1965| Sixstring1965]][[Image:applecorps.jpg|25px]][[User talk:Sixstring1965|The Beatles Wikiproject]]

== From [[WT:BLP/N]] ==

I raised the general question of BLP's applicability to an article about a dead person, and Arcayne is quite correct regarding the fact that people who are still living are being written about here, so BLP applies. The need for accurate sourcing - always policy here - is even more acute for biographical pieces, and the decision to remove the material vs. adding a citation tag would depend on the nature of the text and if it is potentially derogatory toward living folk. Requesting citations by tagging is fine for non-contentious material, even about living people, but if the material is contentious, the consensus is that we err on the side of removal.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#How_are_BLP_guidleines_interpreted_for_a_subject_who_is_dead.3F This] discussion is worth reading. And meanwhile, people with access to legitimate sources might look for some - I do think that the article should have material about May Pang and the lost weekend, as it is well-known and readers might well look for it. It should not be in its own main section as it recently was added, however - for a long time it appeared as a smaller subsection of "personal life" which I think makes more sense. Note that right now, without any explanation of what her involvement with Lennon was, Pang is mentioned regarding Julian - this needs context. So rather than arguing about this, how about getting some reliable sources. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 05:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

=== re [[User talk:Sixstring1965| Sixstring1965]][[Image:applecorps.jpg|25px]][[User talk:Sixstring1965|The Beatles Wikiproject]] and [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] revert warring ===

I have issued both editors with a 15 minute block, with the comment that they should discuss (with others) the best way to edit this article, and reach consensus. Further edit warring will attract longer blocks. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 15:29, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

== A more cincise "Lost Weekend" ==

Just shortened it a bit, added a few facts, made it more Lennon-focused. WAR IS OVER (if you want it)

[[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] 17:04, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:But you added no references or citations, and the section includes what are purported to be direct quotes. Where I grew up you don't put direct quotes into a paper, article, piece of writing without saying where those quotes came from. This goes beyond BLP concerns - this is basic Writing 101. I added a "unreferenced section" tag and several "citation needed" tags next to the more egregious unreferenced items. And I am questioning the placement - once again, I think May Pang and the lost weekend should be included in an article about John Lennon, but I preferred when it was part of "Personal Life". I recognize that some of the section is talking about her role in his personal life and some of it is talking about that time period in his career, so maybe the two can be separated - I'd like other editors' opinions on this. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 19:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll add them. Wiki went crazy this morning and I couldn't even access this discussion page. But certain things do fall under the realm of "common knowledge" such as the Troubadour incidents, as they were covered heavily by media. But I get the citations.

20:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC){{unsigned|hotcop2}}

:::If they were "covered heavily by media", then get some citations. Actual, real citations - newspaper or magazine articles, with titles, authors, dates, url if available, or page numbers in books - real citations. Just saying that a subject is covered in Larry Kane's book or Cynthia's book in the text does not substitute for actual citations. WHat if I want to llok it up? Give me page numbers. And as I said earlier, direct quotes need sources - who said that the waitress said that? Where is it cited? This is basic stuff - it has nothing to do with BLP. "Common knowledge" is not a good enough answer. I deliberately put a tag on the whole section as well as some individual tags to point to the particularly problematic places. Please don't remove the tags until you replace them with real citations. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 23:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:::And it took me 2 minugtes to locate the Rolling Stone interview - the actual one, not an unreliable reprint. Please go for better citations, not the easy way out for others to fix. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 00:17, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Lennons notability does not rest on what he didn't do (aka The Lost Weekend) but what he did as a Beatle, as a solo artist, as a private individual, and how he died, and the effects on pop culture at those times. The Lost Weekend provides an insight into the person, but is only noteworthy in context of what he achieved at other stages of his life. It should be noted that May Pang is only part of that period. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 23:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:I agree completely - I think this is of small value, but shouldn't be ignored - my instinct is to have May return to "personal life" where it was for a long time as to me any significance is in the personal relationship if the stories are true - and I would have no problem with the whole "lost weekend" being scaled down in size considerably. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 23:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

==Why the replacement of the subject image?==
There used to be a free image of Lennon in place int he article before it was swapped out for an old Bealtes one. Anyone know why? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 21:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:Right. Not finding any reasoning forthcoming, I will be removing the non-free image and replacing it with the free one that better represetns Lennon as an individual, and not a Beatle. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 23:33, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
::Agree. Free use trumps non-free every time. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 23:36, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:Please also note that the other Beatles' articles do not use press images from album covers/press publicity shots as the Lead photograph. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 23:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:::I agree too.[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 23:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

==Revisiting the ''Lost Weekend''==
:I have said this before, but since there appears to be a fresh start, so to speak, i will voice my concerns again. The inclusion of the Lost Weekend information both here and in the [[May Pang]] article (where Hotcop, Sixstring and myself also contribute) is largely uncited information. A good, hard look at any of the FA articles for musicians (indeed, for almost any individual with an FA article) indicates that dozens of sources are required to create a comeplement of interlocking sources. Lennon's article contains multiple citations from the same source - a source which was called a "trashy tell-all" by the London Times when it was published.
:Wikipedia clearly states that in the case of extraordinary claims that extraordinary proof is required. I think it is unreasonable to expect anyone to see two sources (one a biography and one a reminiscing journal) to consider this to rise to that particular plateau.
:Wikipedia also states that defamatory material cannot remain in a BLP without ''strong'' citation. While Lennon is in fact dead, the other people referred to in the passage (Yoko Ono and May Pang) are in fact living, and BLP extends to protect them. In fact, we are enjoined as editors to remove it immediately. It is notable that the Lost Weekend passage appears not at all in Ono's article.
:In short, the header under which is discussed the Lost Weekend needs better citation than the books by Kane and Pang. They simply do. Without it, the article won't be considered for FA or even GA - and frankly, that is the point of even having an article in WP. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 23:54, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:I think you are arguing per [[WP:Undue weight]]. There are enough Lennon biographies that cover this period to provide a neutral POV for the article. This does not mean that the Pang book need be discounted, but only as one of several sources. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 00:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

::I just read through a bit more of the article again and had forgotten that the section "1970-75 Solo career" already covers May Pang and the lost weekend. So why do we need this separate section at all? I think we should remove it and make sure there are adequate citations in the 70-75 solo section that could include Pang's book, Kane's, the Hamill interview, and whatever else we can come up with, and be done with it. In context I see no particular reason for adding the section, and in fact it is redundant and perhaps more detailed than needed. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 01:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
::I moved a few bits of info from the separate section and incorporated into the 70-75 solo section and removed the other section. It was redundant and unnecessary. More specific citations needed in solo section, however - page refs where Kane talks about what Pang and/or Ono told him, for example. Not general ref to his book or Pang's or the other one that appeared there. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 02:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. It reads better, but I made some factual corrections in that section. I can cite the pages in the Kane book, which I have done on the Pang page. The quote Pang would be the "ideal companion" for Lennon was made by Elliot Mintz in the 1988 Warner Brothers documentary, ''Imagine''. Ono's explanation in Kane's book is lengthy, humorous, but essential conveys the same point.[[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] 03:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I am a little concerned about [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Lennon&diff=next&oldid=154519618 this] 'cn' tag that Cop removed, citing that it was a bootleg. Is the reasoning for the revert was that it was a bootleg that the event wasn't reviewed or covered by any press outlet? It would seem to me that it would be fairly easy to find a reference of a review, right? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 04:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

It was a bootleg that some people liked because of its historical signifcance and others didn't becasue it sounds like caca. Is a review of either a bootleg or an offically released album (or book, for that matter) pertinent to an encyclopedia entry? Bascially, some people like things and some people don't.

:I'm sorry; perhaps I was unclear. I understand the purpose of review. I was asking if the statements had any citation, such as a review or news outlet notation. The statement begs for citation, which is why the cn tag was placed there. It isn't the review of the bootleg we are as interested in as the verification for the statements that the review would provide. My apologies if I was unclear. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 17:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

It's fine, but the only person to ever mention this session (who was present at the session) was May Pang. So, even if a reviewer would add some insight, it probably would have come from Ms. Pang. The only tidbit that's a Wiki exclusive is the name of the bass player (which should be cited as original research, and if i had the slightest idea how to create citations, I would do. Even the bootleg is incomplete as it doesn't include "Midnight Special"

[[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] 22:04, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== New Lennon book coming ==

Sometime in 2008, a new day-by-day account of John Lennon's life will be published. This will help answer some of the "citation" questions. Hats off to the authors who undertook this most tedious task, but they've spoken with many Lennon/Ono staff and friends in putting together this daily account. This should help with citations throught the article. [[User:Hotcop2|Hotcop2]] 01:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

:That's good news - when we have the citations we can remove the "citation needed" tags. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 01:50, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
::Note that the operative word there is ''when''. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 08:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Yup, that's what I said. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 08:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

==Header Image==
Someone keeps removing the lead image for the article - an image which is a free image as defined by Creative Commons, and replacing it with images from Lennon early in his career - first as a Beatle and then with a professional pic taken sans beard. Perhaps it would be nifty that the editor in question discuss a proposed replacement of a guaranteed free image with one whose status is at best murky? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 08:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:The picture in question is available for free to the public, to download from the official John Lennon website. It is a fine picture where John is looking straight on and not a partial face obscured by hair and beard, looking like a Howard Hughes wannabe. The image is free from any legal dispute.[[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 14:59,

4 September 2007 (UTC) [[User talk:Sixstring1965| Sixstring1965]][[Image:applecorps.jpg|25px]][[User talk:Sixstring1965|The Beatles Wikiproject]]
::Actually, the image is ''not'' free. It is a cropped image from the 1998 album [http://www.amazon.com/Lennon-Legend-Very-Best-John/dp/B00000634J/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9548212-2863207?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1188919959&sr=8-1 ''Lennon Legend'']. The image rights revert back to both the record company and the photographer. In fact, the image description (as ''you'' uploaded it) marks it as non-free. As you will receall, Wikipedia stresses using free images over non-free. As the image currently in place is free, it gets preferential treatment to non-free. As for the 'Howard Hughes wannabe' comment, I think that's rather invalid as both a jibe as well as an assessment. Everyone knows that all the former Beatles were part of the burgeoning hippie culture, and that meant hair, hair and more hair, ie, let it all hang out. And the comparison to Hughes is simply uninformed, as Lennon was not at all impressed by wealth, and Hughes is only thought to have a long hair and beard due to portrayals in popular, current media.
::If you happen to come across another FreeCommons wiki image of Lennon, we would be delighted to consider it as a possible replacement image. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 15:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

When you say "we" whom are you referring to? You aren't an admin are you? If you check the Lennon site, you'll see three free downloads, one being the shot used for the Lennon Legend cover. What do you think? www.johnlennon.com [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 17:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC) [[User talk:Sixstring1965| Sixstring1965]][[Image:applecorps.jpg|25px]][[User talk:Sixstring1965|The Beatles Wikiproject]]

:Just bc an image is available for download doesn't automatically make it free, Six. Anyway, the image of Lennon with a beard is just fine. Yes, he was in the Beatles, but he was more than just a Beatle. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 18:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the picture is representative of John though his life or career. It's plain horrible. The picture was put on the Lennon site for the taking, so what's the problem? Why are you in love with the picture? I'll need a better explanation before reverting the picture back to the"Legend" picture. [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] ([[User talk:Sixstring1965|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sixstring1965|contribs]]) 18:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 

:Well, the best reason is that the bearded image is a FreeCommons pic, and the other one has fair use issues. I am not in love with the picture so much as I appreciate the stability of its free usage. I don't understand why you hate an image that he was apparently quite comfortable with. I am telling you quite frankly that I will revert the reinsertion of an image that is not as or more free than the image already in place. You might want to consult an admin on this matter; clearly, you aren't processing the free use argument I have provided for you, instead attributing some odd love or hatred of John Lennon (which has grown tedious, I must say). Just ask an admin, as they are pretty familiar with the rules on image usage. They canhelp square you away. - 18:21, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::Did you say "More free"? The Legend picture is a free use image. Unless you provide me with proof that it isn't, It will go back up. [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 19:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Sorry, it's called wit. What I meant is that you cannot find a free-er image than one that is free (unless you actually took the picture yourself, and surrender rights to it). The proof that the image is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lennonjohn.jpg here], after I reinserted the non-free tag you removed a bit earlier today. You uploaded a non-free image and then removed the tag; that's called a [[WP:POINT|disruption to make a point]], and can get you blocked. Let's not see that again, okey-doke?
:::So, let's look at the image you want - a non-free album cover (which according to the licensing you yourself provided, was to be used solely to illustrate an album cover), and a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lie_In_15_--_John_rehearses_Give_Peace_A_Chance.jpg FreeCommons picture]. If you are having difficulty understanding the whole free image vs. fair-use image, please locate an admin and ask them about it. They are helpful sorts, and will be delighted to explain it to you.
:::Of course, as free images trump fair-use images in Wikipedia - to whit, "''fair use images cannot be used when a free image of the subject can be found"'' - it would be inappropriate and disruptive of you to insist upon violating Wikipedia image policy. I'm sure you understand. Again, if you are having difficutlies understanding the policy, please feel free to consult an admin. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 19:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The picture is not the album cover, that's why I took off the information. It was supplied by the Lennon website for free use.
I simply put the wrong tag on it and removed it. Again, there is no such thing as more free. The image is free to use. If you find a problem with that, ask admin about it. The picture will be back up soon. [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 19:52, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

::Sixstring, Wikipedia has a stringent - sometimes too stringent in my opinion - position on images. This is not a matter of Arcayne liking or hating a picture - I doubt you even know which picture he likes better. It's completely irrelevant. He's not speaking from his own taste, he's telling you what Wikipedia will or won't allow. I assure you if the pictures are not free as defined by Wikipedia, they will be removed by any one of dozens and dozens of people who patrol for this type of thing, in fear that Wikipedia will be sued for copyright violation. A picture on Barack Obama's Senate website - senate.gov.us - which one would think should be free and clear for citizens to use, was removed from Wikipedia because of an alleged claim by the photographer. It's still up on the senate webpage though. Copyright of images is a very touchy subject around here, and I'm not the best person to explain it because I find it arcane, I don't agree with some of it, and I'm just not. But there are lots of people who are, and you can start by looking at [[WP:IMAGE]], [[WP:IUP]], [[WP:NONFREE]], and I'm going to ask an admin to pop in and perhaps explain it to you better than I could. But just understand it's not a question of what picture editors like or don't like - it goes beyond that. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 20:20, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

:::I'm told [[Wikipedia_talk:Image_use_policy]] is a good place to ask questions, and maybe to find someone who can evaluate these images. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 20:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Excellent advice. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 20:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

::Tvoz has got it right. Perhaps "free" is a confusing term. For image use on wikipedia, "free" is used to descibe the ''downstream'' use of the material (it can be repackaged and either sold or given away --as opposed to the fact that the image didn't cost you anything to obtain or upload). Basically, Wikipedia's policy is to use pictures that are free, meaning that they uploaded ''with a redistribution license'' (such as [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ cc-by-sa-2.5] or GFDL, for example). Hope this helps. [[User:R. Baley|R. Baley]] 21:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== New Licensed Image ==

This image is licensed with Creative Commons and tagged. [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 22:49, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[[User talk:Sixstring1965| Sixstring1965]][[Image:applecorps.jpg|25px]][[User talk:Sixstring1965|The Beatles Wikiproject]]
Yeah, I saw. Might I ask where you found it? I don't recall seeing it in the Commons index, and it looks like it was just uploaded. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 22:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

:(Re: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lennon_commons.jpg this image]) Sixstring, you need to provide a link to the original license and author information, which is required under the CC 2.5 license. Otherwise the image will be speedy deleted. Also I should warn you that providing false licensing info is not wise and could, among other things, invite scrutiny of any photos you upload (and possible blocking, but I don't have enough experience in this area to say for certain). [[User:R. Baley|R. Baley]] 23:25, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

::Actually, the image is from [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9996682/ here]. As indicated on the page, the image is owned by AP, and they ''never'' fall under the category of free or Creative Commons.
::And folk get ''banned'' for those sorts of misrepresentations. My suggestion is that since you have [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sixstring1965&diff=154964759&oldid=154963786 claimed] to know people who know the Beatles is that you ask them to find a personal photograph that they would allow to be licensed under Creative Commons. Otherwise, you might have to live with bearded Lennon, which of course is a free image. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 23:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The image wasn't from there. It was from a Creative Commons Flickr site. look it up. [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 01:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you might want to re-read the earlier posts. The image is owned by AP, and the ''never'' offer up Creative Commons pics. Sorry,. the image cannot remain. You do understand that uploading a picture and marking it's licensing as Creative Commons isn't the same as the image really being free. You get that, right? The image isn't free; it belongs to AP. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 01:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I made the effort to find the site. The picture is from [http://www.flickr.com/photos/galaxyfm/266363205/ here]. Look at the licensing info [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 02:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:That image link shows a Attribution-NonCommercial 2.0 license, which is not allowed by wiki policy see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags/Deprecated#Non-free_Creative_Commons_licenses this page]. [[User:R. Baley|R. Baley]] 02:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC) You might also want to see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags this page]. [[User:R. Baley|R. Baley]] 02:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey, fair enough. [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 02:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:No worries, image stuff seems to have gotten pretty complicated here of late. In the future you might also want to make sure that the photos on Flickr appear to be self-made (that particular user looks to be uploading published/news photos). I know I've looked around for pics on there, so far no success though. Good luck with future editing. [[User:R. Baley|R. Baley]] 02:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you, R. As I said, arcane. My eyes glaze over and I get a headache trying to figure it all out. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 04:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

==Out of the woodwork==
Okay, now Jenny Kee is claiming to have [http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/09/1006jennykee1_wideweb__470x357,0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/10/06/1159641501397.html&h=357&w=470&sz=37&hl=en&start=30&sig2=r8tqpiYip4wm68ESxEhH9Q&um=1&tbnid=a-50931T-QWaTM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=129&ei=lHvdRo6SE5GmiQG-w-GBCw&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJohn%2BLennon%2Bimages%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN bedded Lennon] before Pang and Ono. Surprise, surprise - she's got a tell-all book coming out, too. Maybe we should ad her as well...- [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 16:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I think you're being a bit unfair here, Arcayne. I don't know who Jenny Kee is, and certainly would not accept her "tell-all" book, if that's what it is, as a ''sole'' source. Unless her claims are backed up by other sources she's problematic to be included. I assume your reference above is to May Pang - well, I don't think we should use ''only'' her book as a source, but Kane's book backs her up, and there is at least one Lennon interview quoted that talks about some of the things she talks about, as apparently does Cynthia in her book. I haven't looked at the list of sources recently, but I don't think this is an apt comparison. I disagree with your rejection of Larry Kane's book as a source - again, I would hope it's not the ''only'' source, but you haven't demonstrated why (if?) you think he should be rejected out of hand. I said a while ago on [[Talk: May Pang]] that at that time I felt her article was more about her book than about her, and that it needed more sourcing. Again, I have taken a few days away from heavy immersion in these articles, so I don't know offhand where that one stands right now. Are you suggesting that the separate article be deleted completely? If so, bring it to AfD - but you'll have to make a case for why she's not notable or what's wrong with the article. If not, maybe you can do some research work too, to try to build a better article. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 19:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Tvoz, Arcayne is using Wikipedia to spew his hatred toward anybody who goes against him. It's a power trip thing (which he doesn't have). No matter what you say, this person will go against it. [[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 19:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

:('''edit conflict''') No, i am not suggesting AfD, as I think the article isn't all that bad, and can be repaired to get it to at least GA. The point was that anyone can claim they slept with John Lennon, and their tell-all book can be cited as a source for inclusion, according to the criteria that have been expressed that allow for the inclusion of May Pang and the largely uncited Lost Weekend info. A good book has references, which allow us to see the origins for claims made within the books. The situation has parallels with [[Kitty Kelley]]'s book on the Reagans, and the hugely uncited claims that Nancy Davis neé Reagan "gave the best head in Hollywood".
:I am not suggesting that May Pang or Jenny Kee's claims of relationship be barred. I am saying - yet again - is that extraordinary claims need extraordianry citation. What Pang says happened fulfills the extraordinary claim. Kane (and I'm amazed that folk areeven considering using any remarks from that bottom feeder - if we give him credit, we might as wel include his claim of having been in bed with Lennon, too) does ''not'' fulfill the extraoridnary level of citation required.
Frankly, if we give any sort of weight to Kane's comments, we will probably need to offer statemetns as to the purported llaiason between him and Lennon, too. I think Imdb is more reliable that Kane. I'm hoping the point about citation is registering, because we are asking the reader to accept citation based on someone who apparently doesn't even have citation in her tell-all, and from Kane, who alleges a personal téte-a-téte with Lennon himself. I think there are better citations to be found, and if editors want to include those sorts of statements, they need fairly more reliable citations than that. Somebody (other than myself or Tvoz) pull out the ol' search engine and find some hard news stories, or even a Rolling Stone article - I mean, the guy ''was'' John Lennon. It isn't like there was a news black-out where he was concerned. Citatiosn can be had. Roll up the sleeves, drop the 'we are Beatles experts' elitism and do some work. Sorry for all the harsh, but I'm getting kinda tired at teaching Wikipedia 101 to editors who should know better. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 20:03, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:However, let's bring in [[User:LessHeard vanU]]; he seems to know a bit about the subject matter, and let him weigh in.

Yeah, why should we believe Kane. He's only known Lennon since the beginning.[[User:Sixstring1965|Sixstring1965]] 20:08, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:Well, that's great then. Please make sure to add Kane's claim of having had sex with Lennon as well, please. He did claim as much in his book. Dude, is there some reason you are afraid of doing some basic news stroy searches? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 20:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::Fact; Lennon had girlfriends before Cynthia, Lennon had relationships while with Cynthia, Lennon had relationship(s?) while with Yoko. Out of all the relationships other than with his spouses the only one of any note was May Pang - which is only notable because of the supposed tacit approval of Yoko, and was part of the semi-legendary lost weekend. Unless there is a source that independently confirms the relationship (and its extent) with Kee then it is just another groupie trying to cover her pension. If there is an independent confirmation, how important is it to the Lennon story? The other question to ask is; why wasn't this published in 1981, when it would have been a much bigger story? At most this is a footnote - "Lennon was recognised as not always being faithful to his spouses (ref Pang '''and Kee if claim is confirmed''')" somewhere in his bio. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 20:21, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::Works for me. [[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] |[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]] 20:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Yeah, as long as the same criteria is used for Pang, I've no problem with that. Kane is not a reliable source, unless we are intending to note that Kane had bumpoed uglies with Lennon as well. I think its worth noting here that the Lost Weekend stuff appears precisely zero times in Ono's article. Odd, considering that she is the one who uncitedly pushed the two together. Storng claims require strong citation. Kane does not constitute that. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 20:49, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Kane/Kee I agree with, but May Pang is different; there are multiple sources about the fact, and it was an event that most Lennon fans are familiar with - however, it is much more important a factor to Pangs notability than it is to Lennons. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 20:56, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Migt I trouble you to explain that out a bit more? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 21:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

==Aka Dr. Winston O`Boogie==
Is this a citation for this pseudonym? I see where it appears in the infobox, and in the article along wil Mel Torment, but I think a cite would be helpful. I am not sure we need the alias in the infobox, though. Thoughts? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 04:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:I think he used the alias for a production credit (Plastic Ono Band?), so it was another identity. Same per Macca's "Apollo C Vermouth". I believe it should be in the info box. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 15:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::I think a citation is going to be needed to verify its inclusion. It was mentioned that one alias or another was used to rsign in to hotels. These sorts of things need citation, I think. - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 21:05, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

==Which 'full' name should be used in the lead paragraph?==

John Lennon was '''''never''''' known as John Winston Ono Lennon. He changed his middle name from Winston to Ono. To shoehorn the two into a single 'full' name is a crass error.

The [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Names|relevant section of the MoS]] (which I referenced both times I corrected the above error) clearly states:

:While the article title should generally be the name by which the subject is most commonly known, the subject's full name should be given in the lead paragraph, if known...

:In some cases, subjects have changed their names at some point after birth. In these cases the birth name should be given as well:
:*(from [[Bill Clinton]]): '''William Jefferson Clinton''' (born '''William Jefferson Blythe III''' on [[August 19]], [[1946]]) …

Unfortunately, the MoS is not explicit about the case where the article's subject has died. "(born '''John Winston Lennon''' on [[9 October]] [[1940]] – [[8 December]] [[1980]])" would be wrong, so I've put the dates first in my previous corrections, but "(born '''John Winston Lennon''' on [[9 October]] [[1940]], died [[8 December]] [[1980]])" would be acceptable. [[User:The Font|Grant]] 12:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:I am not certain, but I do not think he changed his name by deed poll and thus was officially John Winston Lennon at the time of his death. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 12:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:I am strongly against ''John Winston Ono Lennon''. I think he went by ''John Ono Lennon'' and so even though he may not have made a legal name change, I'd use that. I think Grant's proposal is fine for referencing the ''John Winston Lennon'' at-birth version. [[User:John Cardinal|John Cardinal]] 13:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::Lennon's [http://www.jfkmontreal.com/john_lennon/Death_Cert.htm Death Certificate] gives his name as John Winston Ono Lennon. [[User:Masaruemoto|Masaruemoto]] 20:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::A Death Certificate is not a great source for someone's name because the subject is dead and the person who completes the form usually has little or no access to legal documents. A legal name change document would be much better, for example. Even so, I'd probably defer to the Death Certificate if the source for it wasn't the website you linked; I am very suspicious of "conspiracy theory" sites. Is there another source for the Death Certificate? [[User:John Cardinal|John Cardinal]] 20:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:::The death certificate seems to fulfill the criteria for inclusion. As well, we note that we born John Winston lennon in the early years section. Is there somewhere in the article where it shows he changed his name? Is it possible that Ono influenced the titling of the birth certificate? - [[User:Arcayne|'''Arcayne''']] [[User talk:Arcayne|('''cast a spell''')]] 20:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Yes, I imagine the one and only immediate source for the name put on the death cert would have been Yoko. [[User:Liverpool Scouse|Liverpool Scouse]] 21:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The article says he was born John Winston Lennon and changed his name to John Ono Lennon. The [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Names|MoS]] says these should both be given in the first sentence of the article. I requested a citation for the bizarre amalgam that is currently being shown. If you feel that a death certificate overrides the names he was known by during his life (and the only names used elsewhere in the article), then cite it in the article, not in the talk page. [[User:The Font|Grant]] 23:44, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

==[[Lennon]] now redirects here==
[[Lennon]] was previously a page listing people with the surname Lennon, along with some articles called Lennon. According to [[WP:MOSDAB]] I have created [[Lennon (name)]] for the people, and [[Lennon (disambiguation)]] for the articles. "Lennon" should always have redirected to John Lennon as he is the only person listed on [[Lennon (name)]] commonly called "Lennon" and more notable than the other articles on [[Lennon (disambiguation)]] that are known as "Lennon". [[User:Masaruemoto|Masaruemoto]] 20:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== can we find a decent picture of john lennon? ==

seriously. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 00:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

File talk:Deathvalleysky nps big.jpg

2007-09-15T00:45:00Z

Duff man2007:

Wow! ''Said: [[User talk:Rursus|Rursus]] [[User:Rursus/OTHITPWMEEENAE|☺]] [[User:Rursus|★]]'' 19:25, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

why such a crappy, cheap, 1/2 assed pic in like this on the main page? Honestly, this pic would have been epic if it were in color. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 00:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

John Lennon

2007-09-14T18:58:25Z

Duff man2007:

{{redirect|Lennon}}
{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}
{{Infobox musical artist 
| Name = John Lennon
| Img = JohnLennonWhiteAlbum.jpg
| Img_size = 
| Background = solo_singer
| Birth_name = John Winston Lennon
| Alias = Dr. Winston O`Boogie
| Born = {{Birth date|1940|10|9|df=yes}} [[Liverpool]], [[England]]
| Died = {{Death date and age|1980|12|8|1940|10|9|df=yes}} [[New York City]], [[New York]], [[United States]]
| Origin =
| Instrument = [[Guitar]], [[Harmonica]], [[Piano]], [[Bass guitar|Bass]], [[Melodica]], [[Banjo]], [[Drums]], [[Percussion]]
| Genre = [[Rock music|Rock]], [[Pop music|Pop]], [[Experimental music|Experimental]]
| Occupation = [[Singer-songwriter]], [[Musician]], [[Poet]], [[Artist]], [[Peace activist]]
| Years_active = 1957 – 1975, 1980
| Label = [[Parlophone]], [[Capitol Records|Capitol]], [[Apple Records|Apple]], [[Vee-Jay Records|Vee-Jay]], [[EMI]], [[Geffen Records|Geffen]]
| Associated_acts = [[The Beatles]] [[Plastic Ono Band]] [[The Dirty Mac]]
| URL = [http://www.johnlennon.com JohnLennon.com]
| Notable_instruments = Rickenbacker 325, Epiphone Casino, Epiphone J-160E
}}

'''John Winston Ono Lennon''', [[Order of the British Empire|MBE]] ([[9 October]] [[1940]] – [[8 December]] [[1980]]), was an [[England|English]] [[songwriter]], [[singer]], [[musician]], [[graphic artist]], [[author]] and [[peace activist]] who gained worldwide fame as one of the founders of [[The Beatles]]. Lennon and [[Paul McCartney]] formed a critically acclaimed and commercially successful [[Lennon/McCartney|partnership]] writing songs for The Beatles and other artists.<ref>[http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A5950929 The Lennon-McCartney Songwriting Partnership] ''bbc.co.uk'', [[4 November]] [[2005]]. Retrieved on [[14 December]] [[2006]]</ref> Lennon, with his cynical edge and knack for introspection, and McCartney, with his storytelling optimism and gift for melody, complemented each other.<ref>See [http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A5950929 'Writing Styles'] in "The Lennon-McCartney Songwriting Partnership" ''bbc.co.uk'', [[4 November]] [[2005]]. Retrieved: [[14 December]] [[2006]]</ref> In his solo career, Lennon wrote and recorded songs such as "[[Imagine (song)|Imagine]]" and "[[Give Peace a Chance]]".

Lennon revealed his rebellious nature and irreverent wit on [[television]], in [[film]]s such as ''[[A Hard Day's Night (film)|A Hard Day's Night]]'' (1964), in [[book]]s such as ''[[In His Own Write]]'', and in press conferences and interviews. He channelled his fame and penchant for controversy into his work as a [[activism|peace activist]], [[drawing|artist]], and [[writer|author]].

He had two sons, [[Julian Lennon|Julian]], with his first wife [[Cynthia Lennon|Cynthia]], and [[Sean Ono Lennon|Sean]], with his second wife, [[avant-garde]] artist [[Yoko Ono]]. Lennon was murdered by [[Mark David Chapman]] in New York City on [[8 December]] [[1980]] as he and Ono returned home from a recording session.

In 2002, respondents to a [[BBC]] poll on the [[100 Greatest Britons]] voted Lennon into eighth place. In 2004, [[Rolling Stone]] ranked Lennon number 38 on their list of "The Immortals: The Fifty Greatest Artists of All Time"<ref name="rs50-lennon">{{cite web |url=http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5940018/38_john_lennon |title=The Immortals: 38) John Lennon |first=Lenny |last=Kravitz |publisher=[[Rolling Stone]] |accessdate=2007-03-08}}</ref><ref name="rs50">{{cite web |url=http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5939214/the_immortals_the_first_fifty/ |title=The Immortals: The First Fifty |publisher=[[Rolling Stone]] |accessdate=2007-03-08}}</ref> and ranked The Beatles at number 1.

==Early years: 1940-1957==

'''John Winston Lennon''' was born on [[9 October]] [[1940]], in the Oxford Street Maternity Hospital in Liverpool, to [[Julia Lennon]] (née Stanley) and [[Freddie Lennon|Alfred "Freddie" Lennon]],<ref>[http://www.lennon.net/familytree/sub/julia_stanley.shtml The Liverpool Lennons] Retrieved: [[15 December]] [[2006]]</ref> during the course of a [[Germany|German]] [[air raid]] in [[World War II]].<ref name="Spitzp24"> Spitz, Bob - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p24.</ref> He was named after his [[paternal]] [[grandfather]], John 'Jack' Lennon, and [[Winston Churchill]].<ref name="Spitzp24"/> Both parents played the [[banjo]] and sang (Freddie specialised in impersonating [[Al Jolson]]) though neither pursued music professionally.<ref name="Spitzp23"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p23.</ref>The names Lennon and Linnane, are anglicized versions of O'Leannain, or O'Lionnain, names which historically have been prevalent in Fermanagh and Galway. However, [[Dublin]] was the birthplace in 1858 of John's grandfather, John (Jack) Lennon who, like many men of his time, emigrated to Liverpool to seek better prospects of employment <ref> [http://www.beatlemoney.com/johnfamily.htm]</ref>
Freddie Lennon was not present at John's birth. He was a [[merchant seaman]] during the [[World War II|war]] and sent regular pay cheques to Julia, who was living with John in Newcastle Road, Liverpool. The cheques stopped when Freddie went [[AWOL]].<ref name="Spitzp25"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p25.</ref> As Freddie was seldom in Liverpool, Julia started going out to [[Nightclub|dance halls]] and met a Welsh soldier called 'Taffy' Williams<ref name="Spitzp25-26"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' pp25-26.</ref> by whom she became pregnant in late 1944.<ref name="Spitzp26-27"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' pp26-27.</ref> When Freddie Lennon eventually came home in 1944 he offered to look after Julia, John, and the expected baby, but Julia rejected the idea.<ref name="Spitzp27"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p27.</ref> On [[19 June]] [[1945]] she gave birth to a daughter, Victoria,<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp54"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. p54.</ref> who was given up for adoption after intense pressure from Julia's family (the girl was later re-named Ingrid) .<ref name="Spitzp27"/> Lennon was not told about his half-sister's birth and never knew of her existence.<ref name="Spitzp29"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p29. </ref>

Julia later met John 'Bobby' Dykins and moved into a small [[apartment|flat]] with him.<ref name="Spitzp28"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p28.</ref> After comments on the still-married Julia '[[cohabitation|living in sin]]' with Dykins<ref name="MilesPage32"> Miles. p32</ref><ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp55"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. p55.</ref> and after considerable pressure from her sister, [[Mimi Smith|Mary "Mimi" Smith]] — who contacted Liverpool's [[Child welfare|Social Services]] and complained about John sleeping in the same bed as Julia and Dykins — Julia reluctantly handed the care of John over to Mimi.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp55"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. p55.</ref> (Julia later had two daughters - Julia and Jackie - with Dykins.)<ref name="CynthiaJohnp61"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p61.</ref> In July 1946, Freddie visited Mimi and took John to [[Blackpool]] for a long 'holiday', secretly intending to emigrate to [[New Zealand]] with him.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp56"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. p56.</ref> Julia and Dykins found out and followed them, and after a heated argument Freddie made the five-year-old John choose between Julia or him. John chose Freddie (twice) and then Julia walked away, but John, crying, followed her.<ref name="Spitzp29"/> Freddie then lost contact with the family until [[Beatlemania]], when father and son met again.<ref name="Spitzp30"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p30.</ref>
[[Image:Mendipsnationaltrust.JPG|thumb|left|150px|'Mendips' - Lennon's childhood home.]]

Throughout the rest of his childhood and adolescence, Lennon lived with his '[[Mimi Smith|Auntie Mimi]]' and her husband [[George Smith (John Lennon)|George Smith]] (who had no children of their own) in a [[middle class]] area of Liverpool at 'Mendips' ([[251 Menlove Avenue]]). Family friends described Mimi as stubborn, impatient, and unforgiving,<ref name="Spitzp30"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p30.</ref> but she also had a sense of humour. Often when she criticised Lennon he would respond with a joke, and the two of them would be "rolling around, laughing together".<ref name="Spitzp31"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p31.</ref> Mimi confided to a relative that although she had never wanted children, she had always ''wanted'' John.<ref name="Spitzp31"/> Mimi and George gave Lennon all of their attention:<ref name="Spitzp31"/> Mimi bought volumes of [[short stories]], and George, who was a [[Milkman|dairyman]] at a local farm,<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp56"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. p56.</ref> engaged John in solving [[crossword puzzles]] and bought him a [[harmonica]].<ref name="Spitzp32"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p32.</ref> Julia Lennon visited 'Mendips' almost every day and John often visited her; she taught John how to play the banjo and the piano.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp40"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. p40.</ref> She also played [[Elvis Presley|Elvis Presley's]] records to John, and would dance around her kitchen with him.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp41"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. p41.</ref> Lennon was later inspired by [[Elvis Presley]], [[Chuck Berry]], [[Buddy Holly]] and [[Little Richard]].

Lennon was raised as an [[Anglican]],<ref>[http://www.nndb.com/people/294/000026216/ John Lennon’s religion] Retrieved: [[14 December]] [[2006]] </ref><ref>[http://www.icons.org.uk/nom/nominations/liverpool-anglican-cathederal Liverpool Cathedral] Retrieved: [[14 December]] [[2006]] </ref> and like much of the population of Liverpool he had some [[Ireland|Irish]] heritage. 
Lennon attended [[Dovedale County Primary School]] until he passed his [[Eleven-Plus]] exam. From September 1952 to 1957, he attended the [[Calderstones School|Quarry Bank Grammar School]] in Liverpool<ref>[http://www.calderstones.co.uk/ Quarry Bank/Calderstones school home page] Retrieved: [[18 December]] [[2006]] </ref> where he was a "happy-go-lucky" pupil,<ref name="Spitzpp32-33"> Spitz - ''Beatles: The Biography'' pp32-33.</ref> known for drawing comical cartoons and making fun of his teachers by [[mimic (entertainment)|mimicking]] their odd characteristics.<ref name="MilesPage107"> Miles. p107</ref>

Julia bought Lennon his first guitar in [[1957]], a Gallotone Champion acoustic. It was an inexpensive model that was "guaranteed not to split", but insisted it be delivered to her house and not Mimi's.<ref name="Spitzp45"> Spitz, Bob - ''Beatles: The Biography'' p45.</ref> Mimi hoped that John would soon grow bored with it - she was sceptical of Lennon's claim that he would be famous one day, and often told him, "The guitar's all very well, John, but you'll never make a living out of it." Years later, when The Beatles were successful, John presented Mimi with a silver platter engraved with those words.<ref>[http://www.solcomhouse.com/johnlennon.htm John Lennon biography] Retrieved: [[3 January]] [[2007]] </ref>

George Smith died in 1955.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp59"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p59.</ref><ref name="GeorgeSmith">[http://www.instantkarma.com/johnbio.html George Smith's death] Retrieved: [[18 December]] [[2006]] </ref> On [[15 July]] [[1958]], Julia was killed on Menlove Avenue — close to Mimi's house — when struck by a car driven by a drunken off-duty police officer.<ref name="MilesPage31"> Miles. p31.</ref><ref name="CynthiaJohnp59"/><ref>Keith Badman ''The Beatles Off The Record'' p18</ref> Lennon was 17 at the time. Her death was one of the most traumatic events in John's life and one of the factors that cemented his friendship with McCartney, who had lost his own mother to [[breast cancer]] in 1956.<ref name="MilesPage20"> Miles. p20.</ref> Lennon named his first-born son Julian after his mother, and later wrote the song, "[[Julia (song)|Julia]]".

Lennon failed all his [[General Certificate of Education|GCE]] O-level examinations by one grade. He was accepted into the [[Liverpool College of Art]] with help from his school's [[headmaster]] and his Aunt Mimi, who was insistent that John should have some sort of academic qualifications. It was there that he met his future wife, [[Cynthia Powell]], when Lennon was a [[Teddy Boy]].<ref name="CynthiaJohnp22"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p22.</ref> Lennon failed his exams despite help from Powell, and was often disruptive in class with most of the teachers refusing to take him on in their classes.<ref name="Colemanp93"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p93.</ref> He also picked on anyone who was in anyway different, using his quick wit and sense of humour to bully them.<ref name="Colemanp97"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p97.</ref>He dropped out before the last year of college.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp67"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p67.</ref>

==1957-1960: The Quarrymen and the Silver Beetles==

{{main|The Quarrymen|Lennon/McCartney}}
Lennon started [[The Quarrymen]], a [[skiffle]] band, in March 1957<ref name="SpitzPage47"> Spitz. p47</ref>, while attending Quarry Bank Grammar School.<ref name="SpitzPage47"/> Their first engagement was on [[9 June]] [[1957]] at an audition for impresario Carroll Lewsis, known as "Mr. Star-Maker."<ref>Lewisohn. p. 14</ref> A few weeks later, on [[6 July]] [[1957]], Lennon and [[The Quarrymen]] met guitarist Paul McCartney at the [[Woolton]] Garden fête held at St. Peter's Church.<ref name="SpitzPage93"> Spitz. p93</ref> McCartney's father later allowed the Quarrymen to rehearse in his front room at [[20 Forthlin Road]].<ref name="CynthiaJohnp46"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p46.</ref><ref name="MilesPage38"> Miles. p38.</ref> During their early friendship Lennon encouraged McCartney to [[Shoplifting|steal]] cigarettes, [[candy|sweets]], or books from shops,<ref name="SpitzPage113"> Spitz. p113</ref> and they found a shared interest in playing [[prank|jokes]] on the other band members and on their teachers.<ref name="MilesPage107"> Miles.p107</ref> It was around this time that Lennon and McCartney started writing songs with each other and separately. The first song that John completed was "Hello Little Girl" when he was eighteen years old. This later became a hit for the [[Fourmost]].

McCartney convinced Lennon to allow [[George Harrison]] to join the Quarrymen - although Lennon considered Harrison to be too young - after Harrison played at a rehearsal in March 1958.<ref name=" SpitzPage126-127"> Spitz. pp126-127</ref> Harrison joined the group as [[lead guitarist]],<ref name="MilesPage47"> Miles. p47.</ref> and [[Stuart Sutcliffe]] (Lennon's [[art school]] friend) later joined as [[bass guitar|bassist]].<ref name="MilesPage50"> Miles. p50.</ref> The band soon switched to playing rock 'n' roll, using the name 'Johnny and the Moondogs', but Lennon found it too musically associated with skiffle. 
In mid-1958, the Quarrymen made their first recording: a cover of [[That'll Be The Day]] by [[Buddy Holly]] and a McCartney-Harrison original called [[In Spite Of All The Danger]]. 
In 1960, the band changed its name five times. Stuart Sutcliffe suggested 'the Beetles' as a form of tribute to [[Buddy Holly]] and [[The Crickets]], which he and Lennon then thought of changing to the 'Beatals'. They changed their name again to the 'Silver Beats', [[The Silver Beetles]], and the 'Silver Beatles', but Lennon shortened it to The Beatles, to avoid being introduced as "Long John Silver of the Silver Beatles", which was too similar to 'Johnny and the Moondogs'. After a tour with [[Larry Parnes|Johnny Gentle]] in [[Scotland]],<ref>Coleman, Ray (1984). ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography''. [[Pan Books]]. p212.</ref><ref name="CynthiaJohnp66"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p66.</ref> they changed their name to the 'Beatles'.<ref>[http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A378669 How h2g2 - How The Beatles Did Not Get Their Name] Retrieved: [[3 January]] [[2007]] </ref>

Lennon was considered the leader of The Beatles, as he founded the original group. McCartney said, "We all looked up to John. He was older and he was very much the leader - he was the quickest wit and the smartest and all that kind of thing."<ref name="Playboy">[http://members.tripod.com/~taz4158/macint.htm "Paul McCartney 1984 Playboy Interview"]</ref><ref name="CynthiaJohnp45-46"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. pp45-46.</ref>

==1960-1970: The Beatles==

[[Image:Beatlessullivantogether.jpg|right|thumb|300px | The Beatles (left-right) [[Paul McCartney]], [[Ringo Starr]], [[George Harrison]] and [[John Lennon]] perform on ''[[The Ed Sullivan Show]]'' in 1964.]]

{{Main|The Beatles|The Beatles discography}}
[[Image:Guitarras de Lennon.jpg|thumb|150px|right|Lennon's guitars.]]
[[Allan Williams]] started to manage The Beatles in May 1960 after they had played in his [[Jacaranda]] club.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp64"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. p64.</ref>A few months later he booked them into [[Bruno Koschmider|Bruno Koschmider's]] [[Bruno Koschmider|Indra]] club in [[Hamburg]], [[Germany]].<ref name="MilesPage56"> Miles. p56.</ref><ref name="HamburgBeatleClubs">[http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://webs.wichita.edu/mschneegurt/hamburg/kaiserkeller.gif&imgrefurl=http://webs.wichita.edu/mschneegurt/hamburg/hamburg.html&h=254&w=355&sz=65&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=XuBKiGVW2CiqFM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=121&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkaiserkeller%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG Photos of Clubs in Hamburg] </ref> [[Pete Best|Mona Best]] ran the [[Pete Best|Casbah Club]] in the basement of her home in Liverpool,<ref name="TheCasbahClub ">[http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.samleach.com/album/casbah_club.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.samleach.com/photos_beatles.html&h=600&w=509&sz=128&hl=en&start=9&tbnid=tfDP9PmjD52POM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCasbah%2BClub%2B%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG Photos of The Casbah Club] </ref> where The Beatles often played in 1959,<ref name="MilesPage57"> Miles. p57.</ref> and Mona's son [[Pete Best]] joined The Beatles on drums as soon as their first Hamburg season was confirmed.<ref name="MilesPage57"/> Aunt Mimi was horrified when Lennon told her about Hamburg. She pleaded with him to continue his studies, but was ignored.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp70-71"> Cynthia Lennon - “John”. pp70-71.</ref> The Beatles first played at the [[Indra]]<ref name="HamburgBeatleClubs"/> club - sleeping in small, dirty rooms in the [[Bruno Koschmider|Bambi Kino]]<ref name="HamburgBeatleClubs"/> - and after the closure of the Indra moved to the larger [[Kaiserkeller]]<ref name="HamburgBeatleClubs"/><ref name="MilesPage57-58"> Miles. pp57-8.</ref> In October 1960, they left Koschmider's club and worked at the "Top Ten Club",<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp93"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p93.</ref><ref name="HamburgBeatleClubs"/> which was run by Peter Eckhorn.<ref name="MilesPage71-72"> Miles. pp71-72.</ref> Koschmider reported McCartney and Best for arson after the two attached a [[condom]] to a nail in the 'Bambi' and set fire to it.<ref name="MilesPage72"> Miles. p72.</ref> They were deported, as was [[George Harrison]] for working under-age.<ref name="MilesPage72-73"> Miles. pp72-73.</ref> Days later Lennon's [[work permit]] was revoked and he went home by train, but Sutcliffe had [[tonsillitis]] and flew home.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp79"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p79.</ref> When Lennon got back to 'Mendips', his Aunt Mimi threw a cooked chicken (that Lennon had bought for her) and a hand-mirror at him for spending money on a leather coat for [[Cynthia Lennon|Cynthia Powell]] (John's girlfriend, and later his wife) whom she referred to as "a [[gangster]]'s [[gun moll|moll]]".<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp80"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p80.</ref>

In December 1960, The Beatles reunited, and on [[21 March]] [[1961]], they played their first concert at Liverpool's [[Cavern club]].<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp84"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p84.</ref><ref name="Page80"> Lewisohn. p80</ref> They went back to Hamburg in April 1961, and recorded '[[My Bonnie]]' with [[Tony Sheridan]].<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp97"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p97.</ref> Sutcliffe stayed with [[Astrid Kirchherr]] when it was time to go home, so McCartney took over [[bass guitar|bass]].<ref name="MilesPage74"> Miles. p74.</ref> When Lennon was nearly 21 in October 1961, his Aunt Mater (who lived in [[Edinburgh]]) gave him 100 [[Pound Sterling|pounds]], which he spent on a holiday to [[Paris]] with McCartney.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp99"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p99.</ref> [[Brian Epstein]] first saw The Beatles in the Cavern Club on [[9 November]] [[1961]], and later signed them to a management contract.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp101"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p101.</ref>

The Beatles were driven to London by their [[road manager]], [[Neil Aspinall]], on [[31 December]] [[1961]] and auditioned the next day for [[Decca Records]], who rejected them.<ref name="MilesPage89"> Miles. p89</ref> In April 1962 they returned to Hamburg to play at the [[Star-Club]], but they learned that Stuart Sutcliffe had died a few hours before they arrived.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp109"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p109.</ref> This was another shock for Lennon, after losing Uncle George and Julia.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp109"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p109.</ref>

They finally signed a record contract on [[9 May]] [[1962]], with [[Parlophone]] Records,<ref name="MilesPage90"> Miles. p90</ref> after having been turned down by many [[Record company|labels]].<ref name="MilesPage89"> Miles. p89</ref> "[[Love Me Do]]" was released on [[5 October]] [[1962]],<ref name="MilesPage90"/> featuring Lennon on [[harmonica]] and McCartney singing solo on the chorus line.<ref name="MilesPage91"> Miles. p91</ref>

All Lennon-McCartney songs on the first pressing of ''[[Please Please Me]]'' album (recorded in one day on [[11 February]] [[1963]])<ref name="MilesPage93"> Miles. p93</ref> as well as the single "[[From Me to You]]", and its B-side, "[[Thank You Girl]]", are credited to "McCartney-Lennon", but this was later changed to "Lennon-McCartney".<ref name="Daybyday">The Beatles : Day-by-Day, Song-by-Song, Record-by-Record, by Cross, Craig, iUniverse.com, [[14 May]] [[2005]], ISBN 0-595-34663-4 </ref> They usually needed an hour or two to finish a song, most of which were written in hotel rooms after a concert, at Wimpole Street, at Cavendish Avenue,<ref name="MilesPage149"> Miles. p149</ref> or at [[Kenwood, St. George's Hill|Kenwood]] (John Lennon's house).<ref name="MilesPage171"> Miles. p171</ref>


As recording technology improved, and they were doing more work in the studio than live, [[overdubbing]] was used so that Lennon might provide the harmony parts as well as the lead for his songs. The "Beatles" sound was a three-part harmony with Lennon or McCartney singing lead, and harmony provided by the others.

The group's decisions were democratic: if any member objected to an idea, the group wouldn't pursue it.  The Beatles decided to stop touring after their San Francisco concert in 1966, and never performed a scheduled concert again.<ref>[http://www.time.com/time/time100/artists/profile/beatles3.html Time 100: The Beatles] Retrieved: [[20 January]] [[2007]]</ref>

Lennon resented McCartney taking control of the band after [[Brian Epstein]]'s death in 1967, and disliked some of the resulting projects such as ''[[Magical Mystery Tour]]'' and particularly ''[[Let It Be]]'' ("That film was set up by Paul, for Paul," as he said later to ''Rolling Stone''). He was the first to break the band's all-for-one sensibility, and also the rule that no wives or girlfriends would attend recording sessions, as he brought Yoko into the studio.

Lennon was also the first member to quit the group, which he did in September 1969 (Starr had left during 1968, but was persuaded to return; Harrison stated he was "leaving the band" on [[10 January]] [[1969]] during the rehearsal sessions for ''[[Let It Be (album)|Let It Be]]'', but returned after negotiations at two business meetings). Lennon agreed not to make an announcement while the band renegotiated their recording contract, and blasted McCartney months later (with the negotiations complete) for going public with his own departure in April 1970. [[Phil Spector]]'s involvement in trying to revive the ''Let It Be'' material then drove a further wedge between Lennon (who supported Spector) and McCartney (who opposed him). With the public unaware of the details, McCartney appeared to be the one who dissolved the group, depriving Lennon of the formalities. Lennon told ''Rolling Stone'', "I was a fool not to do what Paul did, which was use it to sell a record," and later wrote, "I started the band. I finished it."<ref>John Lennon 1987 Skywriting by Word of Mouth : And Other Writings, Including "The Ballad of John and Yoko" Harper Paperbacks</ref> Though the split would only become legal some time later, Lennon's and McCartney's partnership had come to a bitter end. McCartney soon made a press announcement, declaring he had quit The Beatles and promoting his new solo record. McCartney later admitted Lennon had been the first to quit, re-explaining the circumstances to [[CBS-TV]]'s ''[[48 Hours (TV series)|48 Hours]]'' in 1989.

In 1970, [[Jann Wenner]] recorded an interview with Lennon that was played on [[BBC]] in 2005. The interview reveals his bitterness towards McCartney and the hostility he felt that the other members held towards Yoko Ono. Lennon said: "One of the main reasons The Beatles ended is because ... I pretty well know, we got fed up with being sidemen for Paul. After [[Brian Epstein]] died we collapsed. Paul took over and supposedly led us. But what is leading us when we went round in circles? Paul had the impression we should be thankful for what he did, for keeping The Beatles going. But he kept it going for his own sake."<ref> The interview was broadcast for the first time on BBC Radio in December 2005, along with other rare Beatles audio clips, as part of [http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/11_november/17/lennon.shtml "a major John Lennon season on BBC Radio to mark the 25th anniversary of his death"]. </ref>

==1970-1975: Solo career==

{{see|John Lennon discography}}
[[Image:Jlennon2.jpg|100px|thumb|John Lennon in early 1970, after he cut his hair for charity]]
Lennon had a varied recording career. Whilst still a Beatle, Lennon (along with Ono) recorded three albums of experimental music, ''[[Unfinished Music No.1: Two Virgins]]'', ''[[Unfinished Music No.2: Life with the Lions]]'', and ''[[Wedding Album]]''. His first 'solo' album of [[popular music]] was ''[[Live Peace in Toronto 1969]]'', recorded prior to the breakup of The Beatles, at the Rock 'n' Roll Festival in [[Toronto]] with [[The Plastic Ono Band]]. He also recorded three solo singles: the anti-war anthem "[[Give Peace a Chance]]", the [[heroin addiction|heroin withdrawal]] report "[[Cold Turkey]]", and "[[Instant Karma!]]". Following The Beatles' split in 1970 Lennon released the ''[[John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band]]'' album. The song "[[God (John Lennon song)|God]]" lists people and things Lennon no longer believed in - ending with "Beatles". The album also included "[[Working Class Hero]]" which was banned from the airwaves for its use of the word "fucking"{{Fact|date=August 2007}}.

The album ''[[Imagine (album)|Imagine]]'' followed in 1971, and its [[Imagine (song)|title song]] soon became an anthem for anti-religion and anti-war movements. The song's video was filmed during Lennon's "white period" (white clothes, white piano, white room, and the like). He wrote "[[How Do You Sleep?]]" as an attack against McCartney, with [[George Harrison]] on slide guitar,<ref>[http://www.superseventies.com/lennon2.html John Lennon - Imagine Review] Retrieved: [[20 January]] [[2007]]</ref> but later claimed that it was about himself.<ref>[http://www.geocities.com/~beatleboy1/db1971.11jp.beatles.html Lennon and McCartney in Melody Maker] Retrieved: [[20 January]] [[2007]]</ref>

''[[Some Time in New York City]]'' (1972) was loud, raucous, and explicitly political, with songs about prison riots, racial and sexual relations, the British role in [[Northern Ireland]], and his own problems in obtaining a United States [[United States Permanent Resident Card|Green Card]]. Lennon had been interested in left-wing politics since the late 1960s, and was said to have given donations to the [[Trotskyism|Trotskyist]] [[Workers' Revolutionary Party (UK)|Workers Revolutionary Party]].<ref>[http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/mar2000/lenn-m02.shtml "Was there a high-level MI5 agent in the British Workers Revolutionary Party?"] from the World Socialist Website, [[2 March]] [[2000]]</ref>

In 1972 Lennon released "[[Woman Is the Nigger of the World]]", which drew parallels between [[sexism|exploitation of women]] and discrimination against blacks. Radio stations refused to broadcast the song and it was banned nearly everywhere, though he managed to play it to television viewers during his second appearance on ''[[The Dick Cavett Show]]''.<ref>[http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/cavettlennon.php DVD Reviews, The Dick Cavett Show] Retrieved: [[20 January]] [[2007]]</ref>

On [[30 August]] [[1972]] Lennon and his backing band, [[Elephant's Memory]], staged two [[benefit concert]]s at [[Madison Square Garden]] in New York. These were to be his last full-length concert appearances. Lennon and Ono also did a week-long guest/co-hosting the [[Mike Douglas|Mike Douglas Show]].<ref>[http://www.answers.com/topic/mike-douglas-show-with-john-lennon-and-yoko-ono-day-3 Answers.com, The Mike Douglas Show] Retrieved: [[20 January]] [[2007]]</ref>

Following Lennon's depression over the poor-selling ''Some Time In New York City'' album and Nixon's re-election as president (which would insure the continuance of Lennon's immigration problems),{{or}} Lennon and Ono decided to separate. He moved to California and embarked on a period he would later dub his "lost weekend" (despite the fact that it lasted approximately eighteen months). At Ono's suggestion he took [[May Pang]] along as his assistant and his lover during this period.<ref>http://www.lennonrevealed.com </ref>

Lennon released ''[[Mind Games]]'' in 1973, which was credited to "the Plastic U.F.Ono Band". It was the first solo album produced by Lennon with no input from Yoko. He wrote "[[I'm the Greatest]]" for [[Ringo Starr]]'s album ''[[Ringo (album)|Ringo]]'', and recorded his own version of the song (which appears on the [[John Lennon Anthology]]). Because of his excessive drinking, Lennon's behavior during this period was notoriously bad. <ref name="Hamill">{{cite|url=http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/8898794/long_nights_journey_into_day|title=Long Night's Journey Into Day: A Conversation with John Lennon | author=Pete Hamill | date=1975-06-05 |accessdate=2008-08-29}}</ref> Some songs from this period (appearing on ''Mind Games'' and ''[[Walls and Bridges]]'') took an apologetic tone that seem to be directed at Ono.
Lennon released ''Walls and Bridges'' (1974), which featured a duet with [[Elton John]] on Lennon's only #1 (in his lifetime) hit single "[[Whatever Gets You Thru the Night]]". The album was released under the name "the Plastic Ono Nuclear Band". Another hit from the album was "[[Number Nine Dream|#9 Dream]]" which features a vocal from Pang.

In March, 1974, during a jam session known as "The Jim Keltner Fan Club Hour," a most interesting lineup participated in what can be described as a "very loose" studio hour unfolded. The session, captured on tape and later released as a bootleg ''[[A Toot and a Snore in '74]]'', featured Lennon on guitar and vocals, Harry Nilsson, [[Stevie Wonder]], [[Jesse Ed Davis]], [[Bobby Keys]], [[Linda McCartney]] on keyboards and May Pang on tambourine. Paul McCartney played drums and the bass player was producer Ed Freeman{{Fact|date=August 2007}}. This was the one and only time Lennon and McCartney played together after the Beatles split.

During this period, Lennon produced Harry Nilsson's ''[[Pussy Cats]]'' album, and re-recorded his Beatle song ''[[Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds]]'' with Elton John in 1974. [[David Bowie]] achieved his first U.S. number one hit in 1975 with "[[Fame (David Bowie song)|Fame]]", co-written with Lennon (who contributed vocals and guitar) and [[Carlos Alomar]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.rockhall.com/inductee/david-bowie|title=David Bowie|work=Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction | date=1996 | accessdate=2007-08-31}}</ref> Lennon also re-recorded Across the Universe with Bowie at this January, 1975 session. In October, 2007, ''Too Many Cooks'', a song Lennon produced for [[Mick Jagger]] during this time, is released on Mick Jagger's Greatest Hits.

In February 1975, Lennon rush-released his ''[[Rock 'n' Roll (John Lennon album)|Rock 'n' Roll]]'' album of cover versions, to combat the illegal mail-order version, ''John Lennon Sings The Great Rock N Roll Hits: ROOTS'', by Morris Levy. Begun in December, 1973, this "simple" album became the most complex of Lennon's career, complicated by the unpredictable Phil Spector's involvement as producer and by several legal battles{{Fact|date=August 2007}}. It was completed with the same musicians from ''Walls and Bridges'' in October, 1974.

Lennon made a surprise guest appearance in November 1974 at an Elton John concert in Madison Square Garden where they performed "[[Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds]]", "Whatever Gets You Thru the Night" and "[[I Saw Her Standing There]]" together. It was to be his last-ever major concert appearance in front of a rock audience. Coincidentally, Yoko Ono happened to be present at the concert. Following this performance, George Harrison came to New York on his ''Dark Horse'' tour. Lennon was to join him on stage as well, but because of a disagreement between the two over Lennon not signing the Beatles dissolution agreement in New York City on December 19 (at a meeting in which McCartney was also present), Lennon didn't appear. Lennon travelled to [[Florida]] with Pang and son Julian for the Christmas holidays where he signed the papers legally dissolving The Beatles partnership in the unlikely backdrop of Disneyworld. In January, 1975, Lennon and Pang planned to visit Paul and Linda McCartney in [[New Orleans]] where the McCartneys were recording their "''Venus And Mars''" album. Lennon wanted to write a song with McCartney and spring it on the world unannounced. On the weekend of February 1, 1975, Lennon returned to live with Yoko Ono, who soon became pregnant with their first child{{Fact|date=August 2007}}.

Lennon made his last public musical appearance on [[Associated TeleVision|ATV]]'s [[18 April]] [[1975]] special ''A Salute to [[Lew Grade]],'' performing "Imagine," and "Stand By Me" (which was cut from the televised edition) and "Slippin' and Slidin'" from his ''Rock 'n' Roll'' LP. Lennon's backup band was BOMF (billed as "Etc." that evening) and the band members were costumed in two-faced masks{{Fact|date=August 2007}}. The "two-faced" stunt, and the line "don't want to be your fool no more" (from "Slippin' and Slidin") were seen as digs at Grade, with whom Lennon and McCartney had been in conflict over his previous control of The Beatles' publishing concerns.<ref>[http://www.hollywoodusa.co.uk/GravesOutofLA/johnlennon.htm " Final Resting Place of John Lennon - The Lost Weekend"] from http://www.hollywoodusa.co.uk</ref> [[Dick James]] had sold Lennon's and McCartney's publishing rights to Grade in 1969. During "Imagine" Lennon interjected the line "and no immigration too" - a reference to his battle to remain in the United States{{Fact|date=August 2007}}.

On [[9 October]] [[1975]] – Lennon's 35th birthday – his son Sean Ono Lennon was born, and Lennon retired from the music business to care for him{{Fact|date=August 2007}}.

==1980: Starting over==

Lennon's retirement came to an end in 1980, a year in which he wrote an impressive amount of material during a lengthy vacation in [[Bermuda]] and began to think about recording a new album. For this comeback, he and Ono produced ''[[Double Fantasy]]'', a [[concept album]] focusing on their relationship. The name came from a species of [[freesia]] Lennon saw at the [[Bermuda Botanical Gardens]]; he liked the name and thought it was a perfect description of his marriage to Yoko{{Fact|date=August 2007}}.

The Lennons once again began a series of interviews and video footage to promote the album. Although Lennon would say in interviews for the album that he had not touched a guitar for five years, several of the tunes, such as "I'm Losing You" and "[[Watching the Wheels]]", had been worked on at home in [[The Dakota]] in various stages with different lyrics from 1977 onward{{Fact|date=August 2007}}. "[[(Just Like) Starting Over]]" began climbing the singles charts, and Lennon started thinking about a brand new world tour{{Fact|date=August 2007}}. Lennon also commenced work on ''[[Milk and Honey]]'', which he would leave unfinished. It was some time before Ono could bring herself to complete it{{Fact|date=August 2007}}.

Towards the end of his life, Lennon expressed his displeasure with the scant credit he was given as an influence on [[George Harrison]] in the latter's autobiography, ''I Me Mine''. According to Ono, he was also unhappy that McCartney's Beatles songs, such as "[[Yesterday (song)|Yesterday]]", "[[Hey Jude]]" and "[[Let It Be (song)|Let It Be]]" were more covered than his own contributions.

In a 1980 ''Playboy'' interview Lennon claimed that some of his Beatles songs were subconsciously sabotaged, and that the group put more work into and paid more attention to McCartney's songs, whereas with his they tended to experiment.<ref name=" Playboyinterview1980"/> In the same interview, Lennon was ambivalent about his time with The Beatles and the group's legacy and was not interested in talking about them any more than he would about old high school buddies.<ref name="Playboyinterview1980">Playboy interview - 1980</ref> He was prompted that there was considerable speculation about whether The Beatles were now "dreaded enemies or the best of friends." He replied that they were neither, and that he had not seen any of The Beatles for "I don't know how much time."<ref name=" Playboyinterview1980"/> He also said that the last time he had seen McCartney they had watched the episode of ''[[Saturday Night Live]]'' where [[Lorne Michaels]] made his $3200 cash offer to get The Beatles to reunite on the show. The two had seriously considered going to the studio to appear on the show for a joke, but were too tired.<ref>[http://www.geocities.com/wireless_machine/lennon/pi1.htm Lennon's Playboy interview - September 1980] Retrieved: [[7 January]] [[2007]]</ref>

==Personal life==

In one of his last major interviews, conducted in September 1980,<ref name=" Playboyinterview1980"/> Lennon said that he'd always been very macho and had never questioned his [[chauvinistic]] attitudes towards women until he met Ono. Lennon was always distant with his first son (Julian) but was very close to his second son (Sean), and called him "my pride". Near the end of his life, he had embraced the role of [[househusband]] and even said that he had taken on the role of [[wife]] and mother in their relationship.<ref name="1984PlayboyInterview">[http://members.tripod.com/~taz4158/macint.htm McCartney’s 1984 Playboy Interview] Retrieved: [[14 November]] [[2006]] </ref>

===Cynthia and Julian Lennon===

[[Cynthia Lennon|Cynthia Powell]] met Lennon at the [[Liverpool Art College]] in 1957.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp22"/> After hearing Lennon comment favourably about another girl who looked like [[Brigitte Bardot]],<ref name="CynthiaJohnp25"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p25.</ref> Powell changed the colour of her hair to blonde.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp25-26"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. pp25-26.</ref> Their relationship started after a college party before the summer holidays when Lennon asked Cynthia to go a [[pub]] with him and some friends.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp27"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p27.</ref> At this point Cynthia was already engaged to another man, a fact which she brought up when Lennon asked her to dance. Lennon replied, "I didn't ask you to fucking marry me, did I?" and stormed off.<ref name="Colemanp95"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p95.</ref>Although Lennon ignored her for the rest of the party, he talked to her as she was ready to leave, and then grabbed her hand and took her to a room Stuart Sutcliffe was renting,<ref name="BeatleHousesinPool">[http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.beatlecity.com/images/john.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.beatlecity.com/homes.htm&h=102&w=76&sz=1&hl=en&start=121&tbnid=Z86RoWuuJUC7gM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=62&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522Aunt%2BMimi%2522%26start%3D108%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN Photo of Gambier Terrace – Sutcliffe’s flat] Retrieved: 14 January 2007 </ref> where they had [[sexual intercourse|sex]].<ref name="CynthiaJohnp28-29"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. pp28-29.</ref> If Sutcliffe's room was not available, they often had sex in alleyways or shop doorways, but Cynthia didn't enjoy those "snatched encounters".<ref name="CynthiaJohnp35"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p35.</ref> Lennon's jealousy could manifest itself in cruel and aggressive behaviour towards Cynthia,<ref name="CynthiaJohnp36"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p36.</ref> as when Lennon slapped her across the face (knocking her head against the wall) the day after he saw her dancing with Stuart Sutcliffe.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp48-49"> Miles. pp48-49.</ref> Cynthia broke up with Lennon for three months, but resumed their relationship after Lennon's profuse apology.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp50-51"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. pp50-51.</ref> Cynthia visited Lennon in Hamburg for two weeks in 1960, but in 1961 Lennon left her at home and went to Paris with McCartney for a holiday.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp99"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p99.</ref>

In mid-1962, Cynthia discovered she was pregnant.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp122"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p122.</ref> Lennon proposed marriage, but when he told Mimi she screamed and raged at Lennon to stop him from going through with it.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp123"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. p123.</ref> Lennon and Cynthia were married on [[23 August]] at the Mount Pleasant [[Register office]] in Liverpool. Mimi did not attend.<ref name="CynthiaLennonJohnp128-129"> Cynthia Lennon “John”. pp128-129.</ref>

On [[April 8]], [[1963]], John Charles Julian Lennon was born in Sefton General Hospital. John did not see Julian until a week after he was born because of commitments with The Beatles. The birth of John's son and his marriage to Cynthia was kept secret from the public, due to Brian Epstein's insistence that it would harm John's image with The Beatles' female fans.

According to Cynthia, in a 1995 interview, there were problems throughout their marriage because of the pressures of The Beatles' fame and rigorous touring, and because of Lennon's increasing use of drugs.<ref>Interview of Cynthia Lennon with Linda McDermott, ''Liverpool Echo'', [[17 February]] [[1995]] [http://www.merseyworld.com/beatlemania/cynthia/]</ref> Their marriage all but came to an end when Cynthia came back from a holiday in [[Greece]] with friends to find that John and Yoko had been in bed together. John did not deny the fact but when Cynthia left for a while he phoned her and said "I can't understand why you went off".<ref name="Colemanp462"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p462.</ref> Cynthia found out about the definite end of their marriage when John refused to go on a family holiday with them and was later shown in a newspaper making his affair with Yoko public. To make matters worse Lennon sent a mutual friend to Italy to inform her that he was going to take their child and force her to leave their home. He also arranged for divorce, stating that she was the one who had committed adultery, not him..<ref name="Colemanp464"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p464.</ref> In the ensuing court case Lennon refused to give his wife anymore than £75,000, telling her "What have you done to deserve it? Christ, it's like winning the bloody pools".<ref name="Colemanp467"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p467.</ref> In the end, she got £100,000 plus £2,400 a year, custody of Julian and the house.

Lennon was distant to his son, Julian, who felt closer to McCartney than to him. The younger Lennon later said, "I've never really wanted to know the truth about how dad was with me. There was some very negative stuff talked about me ... like when he said I'd come out of a whiskey bottle on a Saturday night. Stuff like that. You think, where's the love in that? Paul and I used to hang about quite a bit ... more than dad and I did. We had a great friendship going and there seems to be far more pictures of me and Paul playing together at that age than there are pictures of me and my dad."
When Lennon moved to New York in 1971, Julian did not see him until 1973. After encouragement from May Pang, it was finally arranged for Julian to visit John and her in Los Angeles{{Fact|date=August 2007}}. Lennon was said to be very nervous beforehand but the visit went well{{Fact|date=August 2007}}. After this point, Julian started to see his father more regularly, and played drums on "Ya Ya" from Lennon's 1974 album, Walls and Bridges.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/johnlennon/albums/album/170665/review/5945311/walls_and_bridges | title=John Lennon:Walls and Bridges|author=Ben Gerson|publisher=Rolling Stone magazine| date=1974-11-21|accesssdate=2007-08-28}}</ref> Lennon also bought Julian a [[Gibson Les Paul]] guitar for Christmas in 1973 and encouraged his growing interest in music.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.lennon.net/memorabilia/blackguitar.shtml|title=Memorabilia: The Julian Lennon Collection| publisher=Lennon.net|accessdate=2007-08-28}}</ref>

Lennon was quoted as saying: "[[Sean Lennon|Sean]] was a planned child, and therein lies the difference. I don't love Julian any less as a child. He's still my son, whether he came from a bottle of whiskey or because they didn't have pills in those days. He's here, he belongs to me, and he always will."{{Fact|date=February 2007}}

According to Cynthia, after the break-up with John, McCartney visited Cynthia and jokingly suggested marriage, reportedly saying, "How's about you and me, Cyn?"<ref name=" CynthiaJohnp303"> Cynthia Lennon – “John” 2006. p303</ref>

In an interview shortly before his death, Lennon said he was trying to re-establish a connection with the then 17-year-old Julian, and confidently predicted that "Julian and I will have a relationship in the future."<ref>''Playboy'' interview with David Sheff, conducted September 1980; published in January 1981 issue of ''Playboy''; reprinted in John Lennon, Yoko Ono, David Sheff and G. Barry Olson, ''The Playboy interviews with John Lennon and Yoko Ono'' New York: Playboy Press/Putnam, 1981; available online at http://www.geocities.com/wireless_machine/lennon/pi.htm </ref>

Both [[Julian Lennon#Discography|Julian]] and [[Sean Lennon#Solo discography|Sean Lennon]] went on to have recording careers years after their father's death.

===Yoko Ono===
[[Image:Lennon Ono Trudeau 1969 b.jpg|thumb|right|John Lennon and Yoko Ono with [[Canadian Prime Minister]] [[Pierre Trudeau]], [[22 December]] [[1969]] Ottawa, Ontario]]

On [[9 November]] [[1966]], after The Beatles' final tour and just after he had finished filming ''[[How I Won the War]]'', Lennon visited an art exhibit of Yoko Ono's at the [[Indica Gallery|Indica]] gallery in Mason's Yard, London. Lennon began his relationship with Ono in May 1968 after returning from [[India]]. Cynthia filed for [[divorce]] later that year, on the grounds of John's adultery with Ono which was evidenced by the latter's pregnancy and miscarriage of [[John Ono Lennon II|their son]]. Lennon and Ono became inseparable, even during Beatles sessions.

The press was unkind to Ono — writing unflattering articles about her, with frequently racist overtones — and one called her "ugly". This angered Lennon, who said that there was no John and Yoko, but they were one person; "JohnandYoko". Yoko's constant presence in the studio led to tension within The Beatles during the ''[[The Beatles (album)|White Album]]'' recordings in 1968.

At the end of 1968, Lennon and Ono performed as [[Dirty Mac]] on [[the Rolling Stones]] ''[[Rock and Roll Circus]]''. During Lennon's last two years in The Beatles, he spent much of his time with Ono partaking in public protests against the [[Vietnam War]]. Lennon sent back his MBE medal, which [[Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom|Queen Elizabeth]] bestowed during the height of Beatlemania, "in protest against Britain's involvement in the [[Nigeria]]-[[Biafra]] thing [a reference to the Nigerian civil war of 1967-70], its support of America in Vietnam, and '[[Cold Turkey]]' slipping down the charts." (Return of the medal did not formally negate his appointment to the Order.)
[[Image:JLENN01.jpg|thumb|left||John Lennon and Yoko Ono in late 1969. Photo: Howard Frank Archives.{{unverifiedimage}}]]
On [[14 March]], as Lennon and Ono were being driven to Mimi's house, in [[Poole]], [[Dorset]], they asked if it was possible to get "married at sea".<ref>[http://www.iamthebeatles.com/article1316.html Visit to Mimi in Poole] Retrieved: [[11 January]] [[2007]] </ref> On [[20 March]] [[1969]], they were married in [[Gibraltar]], and spent their honeymoon in [[Amsterdam]] in a "[[Bed-In]]" for peace. Behind their bed were posters that displayed the words "Hair Peace. Bed Peace." They held another "Bed-In", in [[Montreal]], at the [[Queen Elizabeth Hotel]], where they recorded "[[Give Peace a Chance]]", which became an anthem for the [[peace movement]]. They were mainly patronised as a couple of eccentrics by the media, yet they did a great deal for the peace movement, as well as for [[feminism]] and racial harmony. Lennon and Ono often combined advocacy with [[performance art]], as in their "[[Bagism]]" introduced during a Vienna press conference. Shortly after, Lennon changed his name to John Ono Lennon. Lennon wrote "[[The Ballad of John and Yoko]]" about his marriage and the subsequent press coverage it generated.

The failed ''Get Back''/''[[Let It Be (film)|Let It Be]]'' recording/filming sessions did nothing to improve relations within the band. After both Lennon and Ono were injured in the summer of 1969 in a car accident in Scotland, Lennon arranged for Ono to be constantly with him in the studio (including having a full-sized bed rolled in) as he worked on The Beatles' last album, ''[[Abbey Road (album)|Abbey Road]]''. While the group managed to hang together to produce one last acclaimed musical work, soon thereafter business issues related to [[Apple Corps]] came between them.

===House-husband===

On [[9 October]] [[1975]] — John Lennon's 35th birthday — Yoko Ono gave birth to a son, Sean Ono Lennon, after having suffered three [[John Ono Lennon II|miscarriages]] of babies fathered by John. Regretful of the limited relationship he had with first son, Julian, Lennon decided to retire from music so he could dedicate himself to family life: he thus became a [[stay-at-home dad|house husband]]. Deeply aware, after his experience of [[Primal therapy]], of the crucial importance of the [[Affectional bond|parent-child bond]], he devoted his energies to nurturing young Sean in every possible way. He also made a point of learning how to bake a loaf of bread, an accomplishment which he proudly showed off to visitors.

In 1976, Lennon's [[Immigration and Naturalization Service|U.S. immigration]] status was finally resolved favourably, after a years-long battle with the [[Richard Nixon|Nixon]] administration that included an [[FBI]] investigation — a full-scale effort involving [[surveillance]], [[Telephone tapping|wiretap]]s, and agents following Lennon around as he travelled. Lennon insisted that the investigation was politically motivated, a claim that was later proven true. With the departure of Nixon from the White House, the administration of his successor, [[Gerald Ford]], showed little interest in continuing the battle.

When [[Jimmy Carter]] was inaugurated as President on [[20 January]] [[1977]], Lennon and Ono were invited to attend the Inaugural Ball, signalling the end of hostilities between the U.S. government and Lennon. After that appearance, Lennon was rarely seen in public for the next 3½ years, until his 1980 comeback.

===Estrangement from his father===
At the time that Beatlemania took off, John had not seen or heard from his father, [[Freddie Lennon]], since he was five years old. When Freddie realised that his son was the famous John Lennon of The Beatles, he pursued John until finally meeting him during a film shoot. John did not receive this visit well and told Freddie to leave him alone. John later warmed a bit to Freddie and they continued to see each other occasionally for the next few years, until 1969 when John ordered Freddie to get out of his house in a storming rage. John did not talk to his father again until 1976, when he heard that Freddie was dying. John telephoned Freddie on his deathbed, and they reconciled.<ref>[http://www.iol.ie/~beatlesireland/zBeatlesfactfiles/factfilesx1/TheLennons/AlfredLennon.htm "Alfred Lennon"] [[8 May]] [[2007]]</ref>

== Political and lifestyle controversies ==

Lennon's humour was often quoted during his time with The Beatles, but he later rejected the idea of being a "lovable mop-top" and concerned himself with drug experimentation, meditation, therapy cures, world peace, and was active for a range of anti-government causes.

=== Christianity ===

On [[4 March]] [[1966]], Lennon was interviewed for the ''[[Evening Standard|London Evening Standard]]'' by his friend [[Maureen Cleave]] and made an off-the-cuff remark regarding [[Christianity]].<ref>[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2005/10/05/bmlennon05.xml "The John Lennon I Knew"] from the Telegraph, [[5 October]] [[2006]]</ref>

:"[[Christianity]] will go. It will vanish and shrink.... I don't know what will go first, rock 'n' roll or Christianity. We're more popular than [[Jesus]] now. Jesus was all right, but his [[Disciple (Christianity)|disciples]] were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

The article was printed and nothing came of it — until five months later, when an American teen magazine called ''Datebook'' reprinted part of the quote on its front cover.<ref>[http://www.newsoftheodd.com/article1012.html "John Lennon Proclaims Beatles "More Popular than Jesus""] from News of the Odd, [[4 March]] [[1966]]</ref>

A firestorm of protest erupted across the American [[Bible Belt]] in the [[Southern United States|South]] and [[Midwest]], as [[Social conservatism|conservative]] groups staged public burnings of Beatles records and [[memorabilia]]. (The Beatles at first viewed this in a wry way, saying, "They've got to buy them first before they burn 'em.") Many radio stations banned Beatles music, and some concert venues cancelled performances.

On [[11 August]] [[1966]], The Beatles held a press conference in [[Chicago]], in order to address the growing controversy.{{Fact|date=February 2007}}

:Lennon: I suppose if I had said television was more popular than Jesus, I would have got away with it, but I just happened to be talking to a journalist friend, and I used the words "Beatles" as a remote thing, not as what I think — as Beatles, as those other Beatles, like other people see us. I just said "they" are having more influence on kids and things than anything else, including Jesus. But I said it in that way, which is the wrong way.

:''Reporter: Some teenagers have repeated your statements — "I like The Beatles more than [[Jesus Christ]]." What do you think about that?''

:Lennon: Well, originally I pointed out that fact in reference to [[England]]. That we meant more to kids than Jesus did, or religion at that time. I wasn't knocking it or putting it down. I was just saying it as a fact, and it's true more for England than here. I'm not saying that we're better or greater, or comparing us with Jesus Christ as a person or God as a thing, or whatever it is. I just said what I said and it was wrong. Or it was taken wrong. And now it's all this.

:''Reporter: But are you prepared to apologise?''

:Lennon: I wasn't saying whatever they're saying I was saying. I'm sorry I said it really. I never meant it to be a lousy anti-religious thing. I apologise if that will make you happy. I still don't know quite what I've done. I've tried to tell you what I did do, but if you want me to apologise, if that will make you happy, then OK, I'm sorry.

The [[Roman Curia|Vatican]] accepted his apology, but the [[Southern Baptist Convention]] (the predominant religion in the U.S. Bible Belt) did not.<ref>[http://music.aol.com/feature/famous-quote-john-lennon "We're more popular than Jesus."] from AOL Music's ''Infamous Rock Quotes''.</ref> Lennon wrote later, "I always remember to thank Jesus for the end of my touring days; if I hadn't said that The Beatles were 'bigger than Jesus' and upset the very Christian [[Ku Klux Klan]], well, Lord, I might still be up there with all the other performing fleas! God bless America. Thank you, Jesus."<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2005/10/05/bmlennon05.xml |title= The John Lennon I knew |last=Cleave |first=Maureen |publisher=Telegraph.co.uk |date=2005-05-10}}</ref>
{{-}}

=== Political activism and the deportation battle ===

[[Image:Jlbedin3.JPG|right|200px|thumbnail|Recording "Give Peace A Chance", by Roy Kerwood]]

"[[Give Peace a Chance]]", recorded in 1969 at the height of the Vietnam War, marked Lennon’s transformation from mop-top to [[anti-war]] [[activism|activist]], and began a process that culminated in 1972, when the Nixon Administration sought to silence him by ordering him [[deportation|deported]] from the US.

The Vietnam War mobilised a great many [[Post-World War II baby boom|young people]] to take a stand [[Opposition to the Vietnam War|opposing US government policy]], but few pop stars joined them: antiwar [[protest]] was more common among [[folk musician]]s like [[Phil Ochs]], [[Joan Baez]] and [[Bob Dylan]] (the British musician [[Donovan]] was a notable exception).

Lennon, however, was determined to use his power as a [[superstar]] to help end the war, especially after he left The Beatles and teamed up with Yoko. The couple declared their [[honeymoon]] at the [[Amsterdam]] [[Hilton Hotel|Hilton]], in March 1969, a "bed-in for peace," winning world-wide [[mass media|media]] coverage. At a second "bed-in" in Montreal, in June 1969, they recorded "Give Peace a Chance" in their hotel room.

The song quickly became the [[anthem]] of the [[anti-war movement]], and was sung by as many as half a million [[demonstration (people)|demonstrators]] in [[Washington, D.C.]] at the second [[Moratorium to End the War in Vietnam|Vietnam Moratorium Day]], in November 1969. They were led by the renowned [[folk singer]] [[Pete Seeger]], who interspersed phrases like, "Are you listening, Nixon?" and "Are you listening, [[Spiro T. Agnew|Agnew]]?", between the [[refrain|chorus]]es of protesters singing, "All we are saying ... is give peace a chance".<ref>See, for example, [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/series/pt_09.html this PBS documentary]</ref>

When Lennon and Ono moved to New York City in August 1971, they became friends with antiwar leaders [[Jerry Rubin]], [[Abbie Hoffman]], and others, and planned a national concert tour to coincide with the [[1972 presidential election]]. It would have been the first U.S. tour by any of the ex-Beatles since the lads had waved farewell at [[Candlestick Park]] in [[San Francisco]] at the end of their 1966 tour. But it would not have been the usual rock tour. 1972 was the first year 18-year-olds had been given the [[right to vote]] in the U.S., and Lennon wanted to help persuade young people to register to vote and to vote against the war — which meant voting against Nixon. Thus, the planned tour was to combine rock music with anti-war organising and [[voter registration]].

The Nixon [[Executive (government)|Administration]] found out about Lennon's plans from an unlikely source: Republican Senator [[Strom Thurmond]], who suggested in a February 1972 memo that "deportation would be a strategic counter-measure." The next month the [[Immigration and Naturalization Service]] began deportation proceedings against Lennon, arguing that his 1968 [[misdemeanour]] conviction for cannabis possession in London had made him ineligible for admission to the U.S. Lennon spent the next two years in and out of deportation hearings and constantly under a 60-day order to leave the country, which his attorney managed to get extended repeatedly.

The 1972 concert tour never happened, but Lennon and his friends did put on the "Free [[John Sinclair (poet)|John Sinclair]]" concert in [[Ann Arbor]], [[Michigan]], in December 1971. Sinclair was a local antiwar activist and poet who was serving ten years in state prison for selling two [[Joint (cannabis)|joint]]s of [[Cannabis (drug)|marijuana]] to an undercover cop. Lennon and Ono appeared on stage (in his first live appearance since The Beatles' breakup) along with Phil Ochs, Stevie Wonder and other musicians, plus antiwar [[radical left|radical]] Jerry Rubin and [[Bobby Seale]] of the [[Black Panthers]]. Lennon performed the song, "John Sinclair", which he had just written, calling on the authorities to ''"Let him be, set him free, let him be like you and me."'' Some 20,000 people attended the rally, and two days after the concert, the State of Michigan released Sinclair from prison. (A [[bootleg recording]] of the live performance circulated for years, but was later released on the 2-CD John Lennon Anthology [1998], and the album, [[Acoustic (John Lennon album)|Acoustic]] [2004]). Lennon performed the song on the [[David Frost]] Show accompanied by Ono and Jerry Rubin.

While his deportation battle was going on, Lennon spoke out against the Vietnam War - appearing at rallies in New York City and on TV shows, including a week hosting the Mike Douglas Show in February 1972, where Jerry Rubin and Bobby Seale appeared as his guests. He was tailed by a team of FBI agents, who concluded, "Lennon appears to be radically oriented however he does not give the impression he is a true revolutionist since he is constantly under the influence of narcotics."{{Fact|date=February 2007}}

Nixon left the White House after the [[Watergate scandal]], and Lennon won his [[green card]] in 1975. After Lennon’s murder, historian [[Jon Wiener]] filed a [[Freedom of Information]] request for FBI files on Lennon. The FBI admitted it had 281 pages of files on Lennon, but refused to release most of them, claiming they were national security documents. In 1983, Wiener sued the FBI with the help of the [[American Civil Liberties Union]] of Southern California. The case went to the Supreme Court before the FBI settled in 1997 — releasing all but ten of the contested documents.<ref>Gimme Some Truth: The John Lennon FBI Files, by Jon Wiener</ref><ref>[http://www.LennonFBIfiles.com. Lennon's FBI files]</ref> The story is told in the documentary ''[[The U.S. vs. John Lennon]]'', by David Leaf and John Scheinfeld, released in theatres in September 2006 and on DVD in February 2007. The final ten documents in Lennon's FBI file were finally released in December 2006.<ref>[http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-me-lennon20dec20,0,5975625.story FBI to release last of its John Lennon files]. Retrieved on [[December 20]], [[2006]],</ref> and are available on the web.<ref>[http://lennonfbifiles.com/fbi_release06.html Lennon Files]</ref>

===Recreational drug use===

[[Image:Timbres imprégnés de LSD.jpg|thumb|150px|right|Perforated blotting paper for use with LSD.]]
Although drinking beer was commonplace in Liverpool, Lennon was first given drugs in [[Hamburg]], [[Germany]].<ref name="MilesPage66-67"> Miles. pp66-67.</ref> The Beatles had to play long sets, and were often given "Prellies" ([[Preludin]]) (slimming pills) by customers or by [[Astrid Kirchherr]], whose mother bought them for her.<ref name="MilesPage66-67"> Miles. pp66-67.</ref> McCartney would usually take one, but Lennon would often take four or five.<ref name="MilesPage66-67"> Miles. pp66-67.</ref> He later took [[amphetamines]] called 'Black Bombers' and 'Purple Hearts'.<ref name="CynthiaJohnp76"> Cynthia – “John”. p76.</ref>

After having smoked [[cannabis (drug)|cannabis]] with [[Bob Dylan]] in New York in 1964,<ref name="MilesPage185"> Miles. p185</ref> McCartney remembered all of The Beatles being "very high" and laughing a lot.<ref name="MilesPage188-189"> Miles. pp188-189</ref>

Lennon largely [[Turn on, tune in, drop out|abandoned his leadership role]] under the influence of [[LSD]] and [[Timothy Leary]]'s book ''The Psychedelic Experience'', believing he needed to "lose his ego" to become enlightened.{{Fact|date=February 2007}} His drug experiences, which his first wife Cynthia did not want to join him in were also a major factor in their divorce. He later dabbled in heroin and wrote about its effects in the song ''[[Cold Turkey]]''.<ref name="Colemanp570"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p570.</ref>

===Meditation===
On [[24 August]] [[1967]], Lennon met the [[Maharishi Mahesh Yogi]] at the [[The London Hilton on Park Lane|London Hilton]], and later went to [[Bangor, Wales|Bangor]], in North [[Wales]], to attend a weekend 'initiation' conference with The Beatles.<ref>[http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/walesonair/database/beatles.shtml Beatles in Bangor] bbc.co.uk 16 November, 2006 </ref> The time Lennon later spent in [[India]] at the Maharishi's [[ashram]] (with Cynthia) was highly productive, as practically all of the songs that would later be recorded for [[The White Album]] and [[Abbey Road (album)|Abbey Road]] were composed there by Lennon, McCartney, or both together.<ref name="MilesPage397"> Miles. p397</ref> Although later turning against the Maharishi, Lennon still advocated [[meditation]] when interviewed.<ref>[http://www.geocities.com/~beatleboy1/db1968.05ts.beatles.html Lennon & McCartney Interview, The Tonight Show 5/14/68] Retrieved [[7 January]], [[2007]] </ref>

===Primal therapy===
In 1970, Lennon (and Yoko Ono) went through Primal therapy with Dr. [[Arthur Janov]], in Los Angeles, California, though he ended the sessions before completing a full course of therapy.<ref> [http://homepage.ntlworld.com/carousel/pob11.html "John Lennon - Primal therapy,"]</ref> The influence of the therapy, which consists in part of screaming out the depths of one's emotional pain, is apparent in many of the songs on his album, ''John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band,'' including "[[Mother (John Lennon song)|Mother]]" ("Mama don't go!! / Daddy come home!!"), "Remember", "Isolation", "I Found Out", "My Mummy's Dead", and "Well Well Well".

Lennon's "[[God (John Lennon song)|God]]" song opens with the simple observation that "God is a concept... by which we measure... our pain." The middle section, in which he dramatically names people and things he no longer believes in — such as Bible, Jesus, Kennedy, Buddha, and yoga — ends with an emphatic, "Beatles". Lennon's political radicalisation is evident in the song "Working Class Hero", whose lyrics also show traces of Primal therapy all the way through, beginning with, "As soon as you're born they make you feel small ... Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all."

Lennon's Imagine album also contained songs influenced by Primal Therapy. "How?", a song that includes lines like "How can I feel love when love is something I ain't never had?" and "Oh My Love", that includes lines like "Oh My Love for the first time in my life - my mind can feel," are songs inspired by John's Primal experience. "Crippled Inside", which is a continuation of the themes of "Working Class Hero" and "God", is a direct reference to those who are not "feeling" people.

===Humour===

Each of The Beatles was known, especially during [[Beatlemania]], for his sense of humour.
Lennon's style of humour was always to combine the normal with the absurd, and then make it appear as just a normal comment. After Starr said, "It's been a hard day's ''(work)'' night", Lennon laughed, but then turned it into a song.

During live performances of "[[I Want to Hold Your Hand]]", Lennon often changed the words to "I want to hold your [[mammary gland|gland]]", because of the difficulty hearing the vocals above the noise of screaming audiences.

Lennon's humour also showed up often in The Beatles' music and in his solo work. For instance, during the aborted ''[[Get Back]]'' sessions, he was recorded introducing "[[Dig a Pony]]" by shouting, "I dig a [[pygmy]] by [[Charles Hawtrey (talkies)|Charles Hawtrey]] and the Deaf Aids, phase one in which Doris gets her oats!" The phrase was later edited to precede the first song on ''Let It Be'', the McCartney-penned "[[Two of Us]]".

On one occasion, when asked if Ringo Starr was "the best drummer in the world", Lennon replied, "He isn't even the best drummer in The Beatles", showing again how he would turn things upside down to create laughter. Perhaps regretting the remark, Lennon in later years was outspoken in his conviction of Starr's importance to the band.

It was Lennon who, at the Royal Variety Show in 1963, in the presence of members of the British royalty, told the audience, "Those of you in the cheaper seats can clap your hands. The rest of you, if you'll just rattle your jewellery."

Lennon's humour was apparent during The Beatles' first American press conference, immediately after they stepped off the plane in February 1964.

Reporter: "Will you please sing something for us?"
Lennon: "No, we need money first."

Reporter: "What is it about your music that excites people so much?"
Lennon: "If we knew, we'd form another group and be managers."

Once, in an elevator of a hotel in New York where they were staying, [[Brian Epstein]] asked Lennon what a good title would be for the autobiography he was planning to write. He answered: "How about ''Queer Jew''?" Epstein was extremely upset by his remark. <ref name="Colemanp90"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p23.</ref> Later, when Lennon learned that the title of the book would be ''[[A Cellarful of Noise]]'', John said to a friend: "More like ''A Cellarful of Boys''." In his early years Lennon also liked to make fun of cripples and people who were disfigured.<ref name="Colemanp90"> Coleman - ''Lennon: The Definitive Biography'' p90.</ref>

Lennon would sometimes use his humour to be extremely sarcastic and caustic in interviews. "We created Apple so someone wouldn't have to go down on their knees in an office — probably yours." Whilst the other Beatles laughed, he would glare to make his point, although nobody was quite sure if he was joking or not.

When Lennon once had put on a lot of weight after a time period when he was drinking heavily around 1965, he said, "I was eating and drinking like a pig, and I was fat as a pig, dissatisfied with myself, and subconsciously I was crying for help. It was my fat-Elvis period."<ref>Ken Lawrence, ''John Lennon: In His Own Words'' (2005), p.62.</ref>

Lennon's partnership in songwriting with McCartney involved him — many times — in opposing McCartney's upbeat, positive outlook, with a sarcastic counter-point, as seen, for example, in "[[Getting Better]]":

: McCartney: ''I've got to admit it's getting better, a little better all the time.''

: Lennon: ''Can't get no worse.''<ref name="scoresp310">{{cite book |author=Hal Leonard Publishing Corporation |title=The Beatles - Complete Scores |year=1993 |pages=310 |publisher=Hal Leanord |location=Milwaukee |isbn=0-7935-1832-6}}</ref>

The Beatles often made fun of George Martin, as they once sang "tit-tit-tit", as backing vocals instead of "dit-dit-dit" on the 1965 song "[[Girl (Beatles song)|Girl]]" from the LP ''[[Rubber Soul]]''. When Martin (who was upstairs in the control room and could not see them) asked, "Boys, was that dit, or... tit?" "It was dit, George", Lennon replied, as the others doubled up in silent laughter. They thought of George Martin (who was always dressed in a suit and tie) as being part of the establishment and therefore open to jokes, but never ridicule.

Lennon’s wit often reflected his strong political beliefs. While visiting Canada, which at the time was still flying under the British Union Flag, Lennon was asked by a reporter what he thought of a country that did not have its own flag. Lennon replied, “It’s a start.”

===Writing and art===
[[Image:06041901.jpg|thumb|left|200px|Lennon's own self-drawn comic, "The Daily Howl"]]Lennon started writing and drawing early in life, with encouragement from his Uncle George (Mimi's husband).<ref name="Spitzp31"/> He often drew [[caricature]]s of his school teachers; when he attended art school he penned love poems to [[Cynthia Powell|Cynthia Lennon]] on scraps of paper, once writing, "Our first Christmas, I love you, yes, yes, yes."<ref name="CynthiaJohnp35"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. p35.</ref>
Lennon even created his own [[comic strip]], which he called "The Daily Howl". This contained drawings, frequently of crippled people, and [[satire|satirical]] writings, often with a [[Word play|play on words]]. For example, in one page, Lennon wrote a weather report saying that "Tomorrow will be Muggy, followed by Tuggy, Wuggy and Thuggy."<ref name=http://triumphpc.com/mersey-beat/archives/dailyhowl.shtml> Bill Harry, Mersey Beat.</ref>

When Liverpool's [[Mersey Beat]] magazine was founded, Lennon was often asked to contribute. His first piece was about the origins of The Beatles and contained the line, "A man appeared on a flaming pie, and said you are Beatles with an 'A'."<ref name=" CynthiaJohnp98-99"> Cynthia Lennon – “John”. pp98-99.</ref>

'''Books written by Lennon''', or with contributions. Some were published posthumously. The first three works here are generally considered to be unique examples of [[literary nonsense]].
* John Lennon (1964), ''[[In His Own Write]]''.
* John Lennon (1965), ''[[A Spaniard in the Works]]''.
* John Lennon (1986), ''Skywriting by Word of Mouth''. New York: Harper Collins. ISBN 0-06-015676-7
* John Lennon (1992), ''Ai: Japan Through John Lennon's Eyes: A Personal Sketchbook''. Cadence Books. ISBN 0-929279-78-6 - Lennon's familiar drawings illustrating definitions of Japanese words.
* John Lennon (1999), ''Real Love: The Drawings for Sean''. New York: Random House Books for Young Readers. ISBN 0-375-80174-X
* ''[[The Beatles Anthology]]''. - includes writings, drawings, and interview transcripts by Lennon

==Death==

On the morning of [[December 8]], [[1980]], [[Annie Leibovitz]] came over to the Ono and Lennon's apartment to do a photo shoot for the [[Rolling Stone|Rolling Stone magazine]]. She had promised Lennon it would make the cover<ref name="buzzle">{{cite web |date=12/8/2005| url = http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/12-8-2005-83469.asp| title = Hours After This Picture Was Taken John Lennon Was Dead| format = HTML | publisher = Guardian Unlimited| accessdate = 2007-07-26 | last= }}</ref> but she initially tried to get a picture with just Lennon alone. Leibovitz would recall that, "nobody wanted [Ono] on the cover".<ref name="FamousPictures">{{cite web |date=2007 | url = http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/index.php?title=John_Lennon| title = Naked Lennon| format = HTML | publisher = Famous Pictures Magazine| accessdate = 2007-07-26 | last=Lucas, Dean }}</ref> When Lennon insisted that both be on the cover Leibovitz then tried to recreate the kissing scene from the ''Double Fantasy'' album cover, a picture that she loved.<ref name="FamousPictures"/>
{{Cquote2|What is interesting is she said she'd take her top off and I said, 'Leave everything on' ... not really preconceiving the picture at all. Then he curled up next to her and it was very, very strong. You couldn't help but feel that she was cold and he looked like he was clinging on to her<ref name="RS">{{cite web |date=2007 | url = http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/1000thphotographers/11/john_lennon_and_yoko_ono| title = Issue #335 (Jan. 22, 1981)| format = Audio | publisher = [[Rolling Stone|The Rolling Stone magazine]]| accessdate = 2007-07-26 | last=[[Rolling Stone|The Rolling Stone magazine]] }}</ref>

... I shot some test Polaroids first and when I showed them to John and Yoko, John said, 'You've captured our relationship exactly'. I looked him in the eye and we shook on it.<ref name="buzzle"/>|Annie Leibovitz}}

With the pictures in hand, Annie Leibovitz left their apartment.

Around 5 p.m., Lennon and Ono left the Dakota to supervise the transfer of some of the ''Double Fantasy'' album numbers to [[single (music)|single]]s. [[David Geffen]] said that more than 700,000 album copies had already been sold up to that time. As they were leaving the Dakota, they were approached by several people seeking [[autograph]]s. Among them was a young man later to be identified as [[Mark David Chapman]], and Lennon signed his autograph on the ''Double Fantasy'' album cover for him. A picture was taken by another fan while Lennon was signing Chapman's album, capturing soon-to-be killer and victim on film only a few hours before Lennon's murder.

The Lennons spent several hours at the studio on West 44th Street before returning to the Dakota at about 10:50 p.m. Lennon was concerned about seeing five-year-old Sean before Sean went to sleep, so they returned to the Dakota instead of going out to eat.<ref>{{cite web|title=Lennon shot on way to see son: Ono |url=http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/223747}}</ref> They exited their limousine on 72nd Street, even though the car could have been driven into the courtyard. Jose Perdomo (who was the doorman at the entrance), an elevator operator, and a cab driver all saw Chapman standing in the shadows by the archway. The Lennons walked past, and Ono opened the inner door — leaving Lennon alone inside the entrance. Chapman called out, "Mr. Lennon!" As Lennon paused to turn around, Chapman dropped into a "combat stance"<ref>"Police Trace Tangled Path Leading To Lennon's Slaying at the Dakota" by Paul L. Montgomery, ''[http://elvispelvis.com/johnlennon.htm#NYT The New York Times]'', 10 December 1980, pp. A1,B6, quoting NYPD Chief of Detectives James T. Sullivan.</ref> and shot at Lennon five times with [[hollow point bullet]]s from a [[.38]] [[revolver]]. One shot missed, passing over Lennon's head and hitting a window of the Dakota building. Two shots struck Lennon in the left side of his back and two more in his left shoulder. All four wounds caused serious internal damage, and at least one of them fatally pierced Lennon's [[aorta]].

Lennon staggered up six steps to the room at the end of the entrance used by the [[concierge]], said, "I'm shot," and collapsed. Doorman Jay Hastings ran out from his inside office to assist Lennon and immediately dialled 911, as Chapman calmly sat down on the sidewalk and waited. The doorman walked to Chapman and reportedly shouted, "Do you know what you've done?" before kicking the revolver across the sidewalk. Chapman calmly replied, "I just shot John Lennon."
[[Image:1 West 72nd Street (The Dakota) entrance by David Shankbone.jpg|thumb|Entrance to the Dakota building where Lennon was shot.]]
The first [[Police officer|policemen]] to arrive were Steve Spiro and Peter Cullen, who were at 72nd Street and [[Broadway (New York City)|Broadway]] when they heard a report of shots fired at the Dakota. The officers found Chapman sitting "very calmly" on the sidewalk. They reported that Chapman had dropped the revolver to the ground, and was holding a paperback book ([[J.D. Salinger]]'s ''[[The Catcher in the Rye]]''), and a cassette recorder, along with more than ten [[audio cassette]]s, with 14 hours of Beatles' songs on them.

The second team — Officers Bill Gamble and James Moran, who arrived a few minutes later — upon arrival immediately carried Lennon into their squad car and rushed him to [[St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital Center|Roosevelt Hospital]]. Officer Moran said they stretched out Lennon (who was "moaning") on the back seat. Moran asked, "Do you know who you are?" Lennon nodded slightly and tried to speak, but could only manage to make a gurgling sound. According to Yoko Ono, he uttered no final words.<ref>{{cite web|title=Lennon shot on way to see son: Ono|url=http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/223747|accessdate=2007-07-1|date=2007-06-10}}</ref> Lennon lost consciousness shortly thereafter.

Lennon was pronounced [[Dead on arrival|D.O.A.]] in the Emergency Room at the Roosevelt Hospital at 11:15 p.m. by Dr. Stephen Lynn. The cause of death was reported as [[hypovolemic shock]], after losing more than 80% of [[blood volume]]. Dr. Elliott M. Gross (the Chief Medical Examiner) said that no one could have lived more than a few minutes with such multiple bullet injuries. Ono, crying "Oh no, no, no, no...tell me it's not true," was taken to Roosevelt Hospital and led away in shock after she learned that her husband was dead. Geffen later issued a statement: "John loved and prayed for the human race. Please do the same for him."

Shortly after local news stations reported the shooting, people began to gather at Roosevelt Hospital and in front of the Dakota - reciting [[prayer]]s, singing Lennon's songs and burning candles. The first national transmission of the news across the U.S. was on the fledgling [[Cable News Network]], on which anchorwoman Kathleen Sullivan reported that Lennon had been shot and was en route to a New York hospital (his death had not been confirmed). [[American Broadcasting Company|ABC]] was in the midst of airing an [[National Football League|NFL]] game between the [[Miami Dolphins]] and [[New England Patriots]]. After hearing the news sent by [[ABC News]] chief [[Roone Arledge]], sports announcer [[Howard Cosell]] (who had interviewed Lennon on [[Monday Night Football]] on [[9 December]] [[1974]]) announced the news of Lennon's murder. [[NBC]] announced the news during a comedy sketch on ''[[The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson]]''. It was interrupted by an anonymous announcer voicing the news bulletin, and then returned to the [[Sketch comedy|sketch]].

When reporters questioned Paul McCartney about his reaction, McCartney muttered "Drag, isn't it?" His response was criticised, but McCartney later stated in a Playboy interview that "I had just finished a whole day in shock and I said, 'It's a drag.' I meant drag in the heaviest sense of the word, you know: 'It's a — DRAG.' But, you know, when you look at that in print, it says, 'Yes, it's a drag.' Matter of fact." Ringo Starr and his wife flew to New York to comfort Ono. Lennon was [[cremated]] at [[Ferncliff Cemetery]] in [[Hartsdale, New York]], and his ashes were kept by Ono. Chapman pleaded guilty to [[second degree murder]] and was sentenced to 20 years to life.

Lennon had a [[black humour|macabre sense of humour]] about dying, once saying, "We'll either go in a plane crash or we'll be popped off by some loony."<ref name=Coleman>Coleman, Ray; Lennon: The Definitive Biography, 1992, Harper</ref> Although Lennon joked about it, several 1960s Beatles concerts in the United States and [[Canada]] did have heightened security because of death threats.

===Memorials and tributes===

{{main|List of John Lennon Tributes}}
[[Image:Imagine Memorial.jpg|thumb|left|180px|[[Strawberry Fields Memorial]] in [[Central Park]], New York City.]]
On [[14 December]] [[1980]], millions of people across the world responded to Ono's request to pause for ten minutes of silence to remember Lennon. Thirty thousand gathered in Liverpool, and the largest group - over 100,000 - converged on New York's Central Park, close to the scene of the shooting.<ref>Clyde Haberman, "Silent Tribute to Lennon's Memory is Observed Throughout the World," ''[[The New York Times]]'', 15 December 1980, p. A1.</ref>

On [[January 22]], [[1981]], Annie Leibovitz's shot taken on the day he died appeared on the cover of the ''Rolling Stone'' magazine (Issue #335). In October 2005 it was voted the best ever magazine cover ever. <ref name="MSNBC">{{cite web |date=Updated: 12:56 p.m. ET Oct. 17, 2005| url = http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9729637/| title =
1981 Rolling Stone pic of ex-Beatle chosen as best in past 40 years| format = HTML | publisher = msnbc| accessdate = 2007-07-26 | last=AP }}</ref>

Lennon continues to be mourned throughout the world and has been the subject of numerous memorials and tributes, principally New York City's [[Strawberry Fields memorial|Strawberry Fields]]<ref>[http://www.centralparknyc.org/virtualpark/southend/strawberryfields Strawberry Fields]</ref> - a memorial garden area in Central Park across the street from the Dakota building. After his death Ono donated $1 million for its maintenance. It has become a gathering place for tributes on his birthday and on the anniversary of his death, as well as at other times of mourning, such as after the [[September 11, 2001 attacks]] and George Harrison's death in November 2001. Every [[8 December]], there is a memorial in front of Capitol Records on Vine Street in [[Hollywood, California]]. It includes speakers discussing Lennon, and musical tributes.

Various fellow musicians paid tribute to Lennon through songs. [[George Harrison]] rewrote "[[All Those Years Ago]]" on his 1981 album ''[[Somewhere in England]]'', making it a tribute to his fallen former bandmate. Paul McCartney, [[Linda McCartney]] and Ringo Starr added vocals and drums to the track, making it a de facto reunion of the surviving [[Beatles]].

Paul McCartney wrote the elegiac, haunting ballad "Here Today" on his 1982 album ''[[Tug of War]]'' as a way of lamenting the loss of his friend and bandmate.

[[Paul Simon]] co-wrote the song "The Late Great Johnny Ace" with [[Philip Glass]] as a rumination on Lennon's death and included it on his 1983 album ''[[Hearts and Bones]]''.

[[Queen (band)|Queen]] included the song "Life is Real (Song for Lennon)" on their 1982 album ''[[Hot Space]]''.

[[Elton John]] mourned the loss of John Lennon in his 1982 hit "Empty Garden (Hey Hey Johnny)", from his ''[[Jump Up!]]'' album. Elton John sang, "As the New York Sunset disappeared, I found an empty garden among the flagstones there, Who lived here, He must have been a gardener that cared a lot."

Other tributes continued well after Lennon's death. In 1991, Lennon was honoured with the [[Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award]].

In 2000, [[John Lennon Museum]] was opened in [[Saitama Super Arena]] in [[Saitama, Saitama]], Japan.

In 2002, Liverpool renamed its airport the [[Liverpool John Lennon Airport]] and adopted the motto "Above us only sky". The 25th memorial of John Lennon's death was on [[8 December]] [[2005]]. Celebrations of John Lennon's life and music took place in [[London]], New York City, [[Cleveland]], and [[Seattle]]. A tribute concert was held at [[John Lennon Park]] at Havana, Cuba, with a special guest appearance by [[Kents]], Luis Molina and [[X-Alfonso]]. The minor planet 4147, discovered [[12 January]] [[1983]] by B. A. Skiff at the Anderson Mesa Station of the Lowell Observatory, was named in memory of John Lennon.<ref>[http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/iau/special/rocknroll/0004147.html Lennon's planet]</ref>

In 1994 the [[Republic of Abkhazia]] (an [[unrecognized state]] that is officially part of [[Georgia (country)|Georgia]]) issued two [[postage stamps]] featuring John Lennon and [[Groucho Marx]], spoofing Abkhazia's [[communist state|communist]] past. [http://www.answers.com/topic/marx-and-lennon-stamp-from-abkhazia-jpg#top] (The stamps would have normally bore the portraits of [[Karl Marx]] and [[Vladimir Lenin]].)

From September 28 through 30, 2007, musicians, poets, painters, dramatists and others will come together to celebrate the "John Lennon Northern Lights Festival" in the village of [[Durness]], [[Scotland]]. This cultural event, drawing artists and audiences from across the United Kingdom and the world, will be hosted in the region where Lennon spent Summer holidays as a boy. His cousin Stanley Parkes, says: "The festival is not remembering John Lennon the pop star, but John the person, the writer and the poet."

==Pseudonyms==


Throughout his solo career, Lennon appeared on his own albums (as well as those of other artists like [[Elton John]]) under such [[pseudonym]]s as Dr Winston O'Boogie, Mel Torment (a play on singer [[Mel Tormé]]), and The Reverend Fred [[Gherkin]]. He and Ono (as Ada Gherkin "ate a gherkin", and other [[sobriquet]]s) also travelled under such names, thus avoiding unwanted public attention.

Lennon also named his session musicians under various different band names during his career, including: 
* The Plastic Ono Band (for the ''Plastic Ono Band'' album)
* The Plastic Ono Band with the Flux Fiddlers (''[[Imagine]]'')
* Elephants Memory (with Invisible Strings) (''[[Sometime In New York City]]'')
* The Plastic U.F.Ono Band (''Mind Games'')
* The Plastic Ono Nuclear Band/Little Big Horns and the Philharmonic Orchestrange (''Walls and Bridges'')

==Awards==
===With The Beatles===
* 1977 [[BRIT Awards]] - Outstanding contribution to music during the past 25 years
* 1977 [[BRIT Awards]] - Best British group of the past 25 years
* 1977 [[BRIT Awards]] - Best British album of the past 25 years (for [[Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band]])
* 1983 [[BRIT Awards]] - Outstanding contribution to music

===Solo career===
* 1982 [[BRIT Awards]] - Outstanding contribution to music

==Discography==
''For Lennon's solo career's discography, go to [[John Lennon discography]]. For his works with The Beatles, go to [[The Beatles discography]].''

==Documentaries and films==
* ''[[The U.S. Versus John Lennon]]''
* [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095360/ Imagine: John Lennon]
* [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061789/ How I Won The War]

==See also==
* [[The Lives of John Lennon]]

==Notes==
{{reflist|2}}

==References==
* John Lennon, Yoko Ono, David Sheff and G. Barry Olson (1981), ''The Playboy interviews with John Lennon and Yoko Ono''. New York: Playboy Press/Putnam. ISBN 0-87223-705-2 - includes unpublished conversations and Lennon's song-by-song analysis of his work.
* John Lennon, Jann Wenner (1971), ''Lennon Remembers: The Complete Rolling Stone Interviews from 1970''. Straight Arrow Books. ISBN 1859846009.
* Julia Baird (with [[Geoffrey Giuliano]]) (1989), ''John Lennon My Brother''. Grafton Books. ISBN 0-586-20566-7
* Fenton Bresler (1989), ''The Murder of John Lennon''. Mandarin Press. ISBN 0-7493-0357-3
* Ray Coleman (1984), ''Lennon: the definitive biography''. Harper. Four further updated editions, the last being in 2000. ISBN 0-330-48330-7
* Albert Goldman (2001), ''The Lives of John Lennon''. Chicago Review Press. ISBN 1-55652-399-8
* [[Larry Kane]] (2005), ''Lennon Revealed''. Running Press. ISBN 0-7624-2364-1
* Cynthia Lennon (2005), ''John''. Crown Publishers. ISBN 0-307-33855-X
* Elizabeth Partridge (2005), ''John Lennon: All I Want is the Truth''. Viking Juvenile, ISBN 0-670-05954-4
* Bob Spitz (2006), ''The Beatles: The Biography''. New York: Little, Brown and Company. ISBN 1-84513-160-6
* E. Thomson and D. Gutman (editors) (2004), ''The Lennon Companion: Twenty-Five Years of the Comment''. ISBN 0306812703
* Jon Wiener (1985), ''Come Together: John Lennon In His Time''. Random House.
* Jon Wiener (2000), ''Gimme Some Truth: The John Lennon FBI Files''. Univ. of California Press.

==External links==
{{wikiquote}}
{{commons|John Lennon}}
{{Guitar}}
* [http://www.johnlennon.com Official John Lennon website]
* [http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/lennon/ BBC Lennon Site]
* {{nndb name|id=294/000026216|name=John Lennon}}
* {{imdb name|id=0006168|name=John Lennon}}
* [http://www.lennonart.com/ John Lennon as an artist]
* [http://www.LennonFBIfiles.com/ Lennon FBI files]
* [http://www.quasimodobell.com/default.aspx/tabid/130/groupid/918/gingroup/LENNON+JOHN John Lennon Discography]
* [http://www.ellispaul.com/index.php?page=songs&display=140 "Who Killed John Lennon"], a song written by [[Ellis Paul]].

{{John Lennon}}
{{The Beatles}}

{{Persondata
|NAME=Lennon, John Winston Ono
|ALTERNATIVE NAMES=Lennon, John Winston (birth name)
|SHORT DESCRIPTION=Rock musician
|DATE OF BIRTH={{birth date|1940|10|9|df=y}}
|PLACE OF BIRTH=Liverpool, [[England]], [[United Kingdom]]
|DATE OF DEATH={{death date|1980|12|8|df=y}}
|PLACE OF DEATH=[[New York City, New York|New York]], New York, United States of America
}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Lennon, John}}
[[Category:John Lennon|John Lennon]]
[[Category:The Beatles members]]
[[Category:English rock singers]]
[[Category:English singer-songwriters]]
[[Category:English rock guitarists]]
[[Category:English rock pianists]]
[[Category:British experimental musicians]]
[[Category:English male singers]]
[[Category:Apple Records artists]]
[[Category:Music from Liverpool]]
[[Category:The Quarrymen members]]
[[Category:Yoko Ono]]
[[Category:Grammy Award winners]]
[[Category:Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award winners]]
[[Category:Ivor Novello Award winners]]
[[Category:Hollywood Walk of Fame]]
[[Category:Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees]]
[[Category:Songwriters Hall of Fame inductees]]
[[Category:English film actors]]
[[Category:English actor-singers]]
[[Category:English pacifists]]
[[Category:People from Liverpool]]
[[Category:People of Irish descent in Great Britain]]
[[Category:British expatriates in the United States]]
[[Category:Members of the Order of the British Empire]]
[[Category:Murdered entertainers]]
[[Category:English murder victims]]
[[Category:Deaths by firearm in the United States]]
[[Category:1940 births]]
[[Category:1980 deaths]]

[[af:John Lennon]]
[[als:John Lennon]]
[[ar:جون لينون]]
[[az:Con Lennon]]
[[zh-min-nan:John Lennon]]
[[bs:John Lennon]]
[[br:John Lennon]]
[[bg:Джон Ленън]]
[[ca:John Lennon]]
[[cs:John Lennon]]
[[cy:John Lennon]]
[[da:John Lennon]]
[[de:John Lennon]]
[[et:John Lennon]]
[[el:Τζων Λένον]]
[[es:John Lennon]]
[[eo:John Lennon]]
[[eu:John Lennon]]
[[fa:جان وینستون لنون]]
[[fr:John Lennon]]
[[ga:John Lennon]]
[[gd:Iain Lennon]]
[[gl:John Lennon]]
[[ko:존 레논]]
[[hr:John Lennon]]
[[io:John Lennon]]
[[id:John Lennon]]
[[is:John Lennon]]
[[it:John Lennon]]
[[he:ג'ון לנון]]
[[ka:ჯონ ლენონი]]
[[kk:Леннон, Джон]]
[[sw:John Lennon]]
[[la:Ioannes Lennon]]
[[lv:Džons Lenons]]
[[lb:John Lennon]]
[[lt:John Winston Lennon]]
[[hu:John Lennon]]
[[mk:Џон Ленон]]
[[ms:John Lennon]]
[[nl:John Lennon]]
[[ja:ジョン・レノン]]
[[no:John Lennon]]
[[nn:John Lennon]]
[[oc:John Lennon]]
[[pl:John Lennon]]
[[pt:John Lennon]]
[[ro:John Lennon]]
[[ru:Леннон, Джон]]
[[scn:John Lennon]]
[[simple:John Lennon]]
[[sk:John Lennon]]
[[sl:John Lennon]]
[[sr:Џон Ленон]]
[[sh:John Lennon]]
[[su:John Lennon]]
[[fi:John Lennon]]
[[sv:John Lennon]]
[[th:จอห์น เลนนอน]]
[[vi:John Lennon]]
[[tr:John Lennon]]
[[uk:Леннон Джон]]
[[zh:约翰·列侬]]

Robert Plant

2007-09-14T18:57:02Z

Duff man2007:

{{Infobox musical artist
|Name = Robert Plant
|Img = 200px-Plant1975.jpg
|Img_capt = Robert Plant in 2007
|Img_size =
|Background = solo_singer
|Birth_name = Robert Anthony Plant
|Alias =
|Born = {{birth date and age|1948|8|20}} {{flagicon|England}} [[West Bromwich]], [[England]]
|Died =
|Instrument = [[Singer|Vocals]][[Harmonica]][[Tambourine]][[Guitar]]
|Genre = [[Hard rock]], [[Heavy metal music|Heavy metal]], [[Blues-rock]], [[Rock and roll]], [[Folk music]], [[World music]]
|Occupation = Singer-songwriter
|Years_active = [[1966]] – present
|Label = [[Atlantic Records]] [[Swan Song Records]]
|Associated_acts = [[Band of Joy]][[Led Zeppelin]][[The Honeydrippers]][[Page and Plant]][[Strange Sensation]]
|URL = http://www.robertplant.com/
}}
'''Robert Anthony Plant''' (born [[August 20]], [[1948]], [[West Bromwich]], [[West Midlands (county)|West Midlands]], [[England]]) is an [[England|English]] [[Rock and Roll|rock]] singer and songwriter, most famous for his membership in the rock band [[Led Zeppelin]], but also for his successful solo career. He is known for his powerful style, often mystical lyrics, and wide vocal range. As the lead singer of Led Zeppelin he is often defined as the quintessential rock front man, combining rare musical adeptness and knowledge with a large measure of stage bravado and [[Wiktionary:braggadocio|braggadocio]]. As a solo artist, following Led Zeppelin's break up after the death of [[John Bonham]], he is often credited for his wide range of musical taste and his ability to perform an eclectic range of songs in a refined manner.
==Early career==
Plant was born in West Bromwich but grew up in [[Halesowen]], formerly [[Worcestershire]], now part of the [[Metropolitan Borough of Dudley]]. He left school in his mid-teens and developed a strong passion for the [[blues]], abandoning a promising career as a chartered accountant to become part of the [[Midlands]] blues scene.<ref>Dave Lewis and Simon Pallett (1997) ''Led Zeppelin: The Concert File'', London: Omnibus Press. ISBN 0-7119-5307-4, p. 10.</ref> His early blues influences included artists such as [[Robert Johnson (musician)|Robert Johnson]], [[Bukka White]], [[Skip James]], [[Jerry Miller]] and [[Sleepy John Estes]]. Plant did various jobs whilst pursuing his music career, one of which was working for the major British construction company [[George Wimpey plc|Wimpey]] in Birmingham in 1966 laying tarmac on roads. He also worked at [[Woolworths Group|Woolworths]] in Halesowen town for a short period of time. He cut three obscure singles on [[CBS Records]] <ref>Hammer Of the Gods, by Stephen Davis ISBN 1-57297-306-4 (p.48-49)</ref> and sang with a variety of bands, including [[The Crawling King Snakes]], which brought him into contact with drummer [[John Bonham]]. They both went on to play in the [[Band of Joy]], merging blues with newer psychedelic trends. Though his early career met with no commercial success, word quickly spread about the "young man with the powerful voice".

==Led Zeppelin==
{{main_article|Led Zeppelin}}
===Early years===
In 1968, the guitarist [[Jimmy Page]] was in search of a lead singer for his new band and met Plant after being turned down by his first choice, [[Terry Reid]], who referred him to a show at a nightclub where Plant was singing in a band. Plant and Page immediately hit it off with a shared musical passion and after Plant joined the band, they began their writing collaboration with reworkings of earlier blues songs, although Plant would receive no songwriting credits on the band's first album, allegedly because he was still under contract to CBS Records at the time. Plant brought along [[John Bonham]] as drummer, and along with [[John Paul Jones (musician)|John Paul Jones]], who had worked with Jimmy Page as a studio musician, [[Led Zeppelin]] was formed in 1968. Their [[Led Zeppelin (album)|self-titled debut album]] hit the charts in 1969 and is widely credited as a catalyst for the [[Heavy metal music|heavy metal]] genre. Ironically, Plant has commented that it is unfair for people to think of Zeppelin as "heavy metal," since almost a third of their music was acoustic.<ref>''The History of Rock 'n' Roll: The '70s: Have a Nice Decade''</ref>



===Later years===
Plant's time with Led Zeppelin was not without its problems, however. In 1975, he and his wife Maureen were seriously injured in a car crash in [[Rhodes, Greece]]. This significantly affected the production of Led Zeppelin's seventh album ''[[Presence]]'' for a few months while he recovered, and forced the band to cancel the remaining tour dates for the year.

Things took an even greater turn for the worse in 1977 when his oldest son Karac died of a stomach infection when Plant was engaged on [[Led Zeppelin concert tour chronology|Led Zeppelin's concert tour]] of the [[United States]]. Karac's death later inspired him to write the song "[[All My Love (song)|All My Love]]" in tribute, featured on Led Zeppelin's final studio [[Gramophone record|LP]], 1979's ''[[In Through the Out Door]]''.

==Solo career==
After the breakup of Led Zeppelin in 1980, Plant pursued a successful solo career beginning with his first solo album, ''[[Pictures at Eleven]]'' in 1982, followed by 1983's ''[[The Principle of Moments]]''. Popular tracks from this period include "[[Big Log]]" (a Top 20 hit in 1983), "In the Mood (1984), "Little by Little" (1985), "Tall Cool One" (a #25 hit in 1988) and "I Believe" (1993), another song written for and dedicated to his late son, Karac. In 1984, Plant formed a short-lived all-star group with Jimmy Page and [[Jeff Beck]] called [[The Honeydrippers]], who had a #3 hit with a remake of the [[Phil Phillips]]' tune, "[[Sea of Love (song)|Sea of Love]]", along with a lesser hit with "Rockin' at Midnight." Plant avoided performing Led Zeppelin songs through much of this period.

On rare occasions, Plant performed with both surviving members of Led Zeppelin: In 1985 for [[Live Aid]] (with [[Phil Collins]] and [[Tony Thompson]] on drums), 1988 for [[Atlantic Records]] 40th anniversary, and in 1995 when the band was inducted into the [[Rock and Roll Hall of Fame]], the last two with Bonham's son [[Jason Bonham|Jason]] filling in on drums. Additionally, Plant, Jones, and Page attended—and later performed at Jason's wedding in 1990.

Through the 1980s and 1990s, Plant co-wrote three solo albums with keyboardist/songwriter [[Phil Johnstone]]. ''[[Now and Zen]]'', ''[[Manic Nirvana]]'', and ''[[Fate of Nations]]''. It was Johnstone who talked Plant into playing Zeppelin songs in his live shows, something Plant had resisted, not wanting to be forever known as "the former Led Zeppelin vocalist." Plant first collaborated with Jimmy Page post-Zeppelin in the studio on the 1988 Page solo effort, ''[[Outrider (album)|Outrider]]''. He later collaborated with Page on the 1998 album, ''[[Walking into Clarksdale]]'', which features all original material from the pair. Starting at the close of 1999, Plant performed at several small venues with his folk-rock band, named [[Priory of Brion]].
[[Image:Plantandfan2007.jpg|thumb|right|175px|Robert Plant (left) posing with a fan after a [[The Who]] concert that was held in London [[31 March]] [[2007]]]]
In 2002, with his then newly-formed band [[Strange Sensation]], Plant released a widely acclaimed collection of mostly blues and folk remakes, ''[[Dreamland (Robert Plant album)|Dreamland]]''. Contrasting with this lush collection of often relatively obscure remakes, the second album with Strange Sensation ''[[Mighty ReArranger]]'' (2005), contains new, original songs. Both have received some of the most favorable reviews of Plant's solo career and four [[Grammy]] nominations, two in 2003 and two in 2006.

As a former member of Led Zeppelin, along with [[Jimmy Page]] and [[John Paul Jones (musician)|John Paul Jones]], Plant received the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 2005 and the [http://www.polarmusicprize.se/ Polar Music Prize] in 2006. Plant still actively tours, the most recent taking place in US and Europe during 2005/2006 with Strange Sensation. His sets typically include recent, but not only, solo material and plenty of Led Zeppelin favorites, often with new and expanded arrangements. A DVD titled ''[[Soundstage: Robert Plant and the Strange Sensation]]'', featuring his Soundstage performance (filmed at the Soundstage Studios in
Chicago on September 16, 2005), was released in October 2006.
An expansive box set of his solo work, [[Nine Lives (Robert Plant album)|Nine Lives]], was released in November 2006. It was reported on [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003605490| Billboard's Website] that Robert is contributing a track to the [[Fats Domino]] tribute album entitled "It Keeps Rainin'". The performers list indicates that he will cover the song with the "Lil' Band o' Gold".

Recently, Plant has been recording music with bluegrass star [[Alison Krauss]]. The album, ''Raising Sand'', will be released on October 23, 2007 on Rounder Records, the label announced on August 5, 2007. The album that has been recorded in Nashville and Los Angeles includes the two songwriters doing lesser-known material from R&B, blues, folk, and country songwriters including Mel Tillis, Townes Van Zandt, Gene Clark, Tom Waits, Doc Waltson, Little Milton Campbell, and the Everly Brothers.

==Voice and singing technique==
{{tone|section}}
Robert Plant's voice and singing technique were very unusual compared to other rock lead singers of the era such as [[John Lennon]], [[Paul McCartney]], [[Mick Jagger]] and others, and these traits helped to define the unique sound of Led Zeppelin and ultimately the heavy metal vocal style.{{Fact|date=July 2007}} Plant possesses a high tenor voice and his vocal style is showcased in many Led Zeppelin songs such as "[[Communication Breakdown]]", "[[Dazed and Confused (song)|Dazed and Confused]]","[[Since I've Been Loving You]]" and "[[Whole Lotta Love]]". Plant became one of the most significant rock singers of the 1970s (and of all time), influencing the style of many of his contemporaries like [[Steven Tyler]], [[Paul Stanley]], [[Freddie Mercury]], [[Bon Scott]], [[Geddy Lee]] and [[Robin Zander]], and later rock vocalists such as [[Brian Johnson]], [[Axl Rose]], [[Eddie Vedder]], [[Chris Cornell]], [[Koshi Inaba]], [[Chris Robinson]], [[Shannon Hoon]], [[Andrew Stockdale]] and [[Justin Hawkins]].{{Fact|date=July 2007}}.

==Lyrics==
Plant's lyrics are often mystical, philosophical and spiritual, alluding to events in classical and [[Norse mythology]], such as in the song "[[No Quarter (song)|No Quarter]]" which refers to the god [[Thor]], and the "[[Immigrant Song]]", which refers to [[Valhalla]] and [[Viking]] conquests. Another example is "[[The Rain Song]]", which contains allusions to various pagan rituals.

Plant was also influenced by [[J. R. R. Tolkien]], whose book series inspired lyrics in some early Led Zeppelin songs. Most notably the "[[Battle of Evermore]]", "[[Misty Mountain Hop]]" and "[[Ramble On]]" all contain verses referencing Tolkien's ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. Conversely, Plant sometimes used more straightforward blues-based lyrics dealing primarily with sexual innuendo, as in "[[The Lemon Song]]", "[[Trampled Under Foot]]", and "[[Black Dog (song)|Black Dog]]".

The passion diverse musical experiences drove Plant to explore Africa, specifically [[Morocco]], whose musical inspiration most evidently culminated in the classic track "[[Kashmir (song)|Kashmir]]" (which, ironically, is not in North Africa, but rather between [[India]] and [[Pakistan]]). Both he and Jimmy Page revisited these influences during their reunion album ''[[No Quarter: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant Unledded]]'' in 1994. In his solo career, Plant again tapped from these influences many times, most notably in the 2002 album, ''[[Dreamland (Robert Plant album)|Dreamland]]''.

Undoubtedly one of Plant's most significant and influential achievements with Led Zeppelin was his contribution to the track "[[Stairway to Heaven]]", an epic rock [[ballad]] featured on ''[[Led Zeppelin IV]]'' that drew influence from [[folk music|folk]], [[blues]], [[Celtic music|Celtic traditional music]] and [[hard rock]] among other genres. Most of the lyrics of the song were written spontaneously by Plant in 1970 at [[Headley Grange]]. While never released as a single, the song has topped charts as the greatest song of all time on various polls around the world. Other fans however argue that Plant made a better performance in other Led Zeppelin epics such as "[[Kashmir (song)|Kashmir]]" or "[[Achilles Last Stand]]".

Plant is also recognised for his lyrical improvisation in [[Led Zeppelin concerts|Led Zeppelin's live performances]], often singing verses previously unheard on studio recordings. One of the most famous Led Zeppelin musical devices involves Plant's vocal mimicking of bandmate [[Jimmy Page]]'s guitar effects. This can be heard in the songs "[[How Many More Times]]", "Dazed and Confused", "[[You Shook Me]]", and "[[Sick Again]]". He's also known for his light-hearted and humorous on-stage banter, often referred to as "plantations."

==Persona==
Plant enjoyed great success with Led Zeppelin throughout the 1970s and developed a compelling image as the charismatic rock-and-roll front man much like [[Roger Daltrey]] of [[The Who]] and [[Jim Morrison]] of [[The Doors]]. With his mane of long blond hair and powerful, bare-chested appearance, Plant helped perhaps more than any other artist to create the "[[god of rock and roll]]" or "rock god" archetype. On stage, Robert was (and still is) particularly active in live performances, often dancing, jumping, snapping his fingers, clapping, making emphatic gestures to emphasise a lyric or cymbal crash, throwing back his head, or placing his hands on his hips. As the 1970s progressed he, along with the other members of Led Zeppelin, became increasingly flamboyant onstage and wore more elaborate, colourful clothing and jewelry. In 1975, he was reported to have exclaimed the phrase "I am a Golden god!" from the balcony of the [[Continental Hyatt House]] in [[Los Angeles, California]] (reference to which was later made in [[Cameron Crowe]]'s film, ''[[Almost Famous]]'').

He is a huge football fan, and has been a life-long supporter, and a season-ticket ticket-holder, of the Wolverhampton Wanderers. Once faced with the prospect of a clash between a possible Wolves FA Cup Final appearance, and the start of the Page-Plant tour, Plant remarked that if Wolves made the final, Jimmy Page would have to play that date on his own. Unfortunately for Wolves and Plant, Wolves lost in the semi-final, and Plant didn't have to choose.

Plant is also a big fan of Laser Quest and often plays at his local arena in Stourbridge with his grown up son.

==Tributes==

*An achievement in the [[Xbox 360]] version of the game [[Guitar Hero II]], is titled the "Page and Plant Award", given to two players who can hit 100% of the notes in cooperative mode.

==Notes==
<references/>

==Solo discography==
*''[[Pictures at Eleven]]'' (1982), UK #2 US #5
*''[[The Principle of Moments]]'' (1983), UK #7 US #8
*''[[The Honeydrippers: Volume One]]'' (1984), with [[Jimmy Page]] US #3
*''[[Shaken 'n' Stirred]]'' (1985), US #20 UK #19
*''[[Now and Zen]]'' (1988), US #6 UK #10
*''[[Manic Nirvana]]'' (1990), US #13 UK#15
*''[[Fate of Nations]]'' (1993), US #34 UK #6
*''[[No Quarter: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant Unledded]]'' (1994), as [[Page and Plant]]UK #7
*''[[Walking into Clarksdale]]'' (1998), as [[Page and Plant]]UK #3 US #8
*''[[Dreamland (Robert Plant album)|Dreamland]]'' (2002), US #40
*''[[Sixty Six to Timbuktu]]'' (2003) Best Of, US #134
*''[[Mighty ReArranger]]'' (2005), with [[Strange Sensation]], US #22 UK #4
*''[[Nine Lives (Robert Plant album)|Nine Lives]]'' (2006), a [[box set]] of his previous albums, with unreleased tracks and B-sides.
*''[[Soundstage: Robert Plant and the Strange Sensation]] (2006), DVD [http://www.universalmusiconline.com/robert-plant/strange/ Watch the trailer]
*''[[Raising Sand]]'' (2007), with [[Alison Krauss]]

==External links==
*[http://www.ledzeppelin.com Led Zeppelin Official Site]
*[http://www.robertplant.com/ Official Robert Plant Homepage]
*[http://home.att.net/~chuckayoub/Led_Zeppelin_Sound_2.htm Interview with Robert Plant]
*[http://www.rickmcgrath.com/ledzep.html 1971 Interview with Robert Plant by underground press journalist Rick McGrath.]
*[http://afropop.org/multi/interview/ID/38/Robert+Plant-Mali%2C+2003 2003 Afropop Worldwide Interview with Robert Plant in Mali]
*[http://www.bbc.co.uk/blackcountry/content/articles/2007/09/06/robert_plant_feature.shtml BBC interview with Robert Plant about the Led Zeppelin reunion]

{{Robert Plant}}
{{Led Zeppelin}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Plant, Robert}}
[[Category:1948 births]]
[[Category:English male singers]]
[[Category:English songwriters]]
[[Category:English rock singers]]
[[Category:Led Zeppelin members]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:People from West Bromwich]]
[[Category:Grammy Award winners]]
[[Category:Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees]]
[[Category:Falsettos]]

[[bg:Робърт Плант]]
[[cs:Robert Plant]]
[[da:Robert Plant]]
[[de:Robert Plant]]
[[es:Robert Plant]]
[[fr:Robert Plant]]
[[ga:Robert Plant]]
[[gd:Robert Plant]]
[[id:Robert Plant]]
[[it:Robert Plant]]
[[he:רוברט פלאנט]]
[[nl:Robert Plant]]
[[ja:ロバート・プラント]]
[[no:Robert Plant]]
[[pl:Robert Plant]]
[[pt:Robert Plant]]
[[ru:Плант, Роберт]]
[[sl:Robert Plant]]
[[sr:Роберт Плант]]
[[fi:Robert Plant]]
[[sv:Robert Plant]]
[[tr:Robert Plant]]

Robert Plant

2007-09-14T18:56:17Z

Duff man2007:

{{Infobox musical artist
|Name = Robert Plant
|Img = Robert Plant.jpg
|Img_capt = Robert Plant in 2007
|Img_size =
|Background = solo_singer
|Birth_name = Robert Anthony Plant
|Alias =
|Born = {{birth date and age|1948|8|20}} {{flagicon|England}} [[West Bromwich]], [[England]]
|Died =
|Instrument = [[Singer|Vocals]][[Harmonica]][[Tambourine]][[Guitar]]
|Genre = [[Hard rock]], [[Heavy metal music|Heavy metal]], [[Blues-rock]], [[Rock and roll]], [[Folk music]], [[World music]]
|Occupation = Singer-songwriter
|Years_active = [[1966]] – present
|Label = [[Atlantic Records]] [[Swan Song Records]]
|Associated_acts = [[Band of Joy]][[Led Zeppelin]][[The Honeydrippers]][[Page and Plant]][[Strange Sensation]]
|URL = http://www.robertplant.com/
}}
'''Robert Anthony Plant''' (born [[August 20]], [[1948]], [[West Bromwich]], [[West Midlands (county)|West Midlands]], [[England]]) is an [[England|English]] [[Rock and Roll|rock]] singer and songwriter, most famous for his membership in the rock band [[Led Zeppelin]], but also for his successful solo career. He is known for his powerful style, often mystical lyrics, and wide vocal range. As the lead singer of Led Zeppelin he is often defined as the quintessential rock front man, combining rare musical adeptness and knowledge with a large measure of stage bravado and [[Wiktionary:braggadocio|braggadocio]]. As a solo artist, following Led Zeppelin's break up after the death of [[John Bonham]], he is often credited for his wide range of musical taste and his ability to perform an eclectic range of songs in a refined manner.
==Early career==
Plant was born in West Bromwich but grew up in [[Halesowen]], formerly [[Worcestershire]], now part of the [[Metropolitan Borough of Dudley]]. He left school in his mid-teens and developed a strong passion for the [[blues]], abandoning a promising career as a chartered accountant to become part of the [[Midlands]] blues scene.<ref>Dave Lewis and Simon Pallett (1997) ''Led Zeppelin: The Concert File'', London: Omnibus Press. ISBN 0-7119-5307-4, p. 10.</ref> His early blues influences included artists such as [[Robert Johnson (musician)|Robert Johnson]], [[Bukka White]], [[Skip James]], [[Jerry Miller]] and [[Sleepy John Estes]]. Plant did various jobs whilst pursuing his music career, one of which was working for the major British construction company [[George Wimpey plc|Wimpey]] in Birmingham in 1966 laying tarmac on roads. He also worked at [[Woolworths Group|Woolworths]] in Halesowen town for a short period of time. He cut three obscure singles on [[CBS Records]] <ref>Hammer Of the Gods, by Stephen Davis ISBN 1-57297-306-4 (p.48-49)</ref> and sang with a variety of bands, including [[The Crawling King Snakes]], which brought him into contact with drummer [[John Bonham]]. They both went on to play in the [[Band of Joy]], merging blues with newer psychedelic trends. Though his early career met with no commercial success, word quickly spread about the "young man with the powerful voice".

==Led Zeppelin==
{{main_article|Led Zeppelin}}
===Early years===
In 1968, the guitarist [[Jimmy Page]] was in search of a lead singer for his new band and met Plant after being turned down by his first choice, [[Terry Reid]], who referred him to a show at a nightclub where Plant was singing in a band. Plant and Page immediately hit it off with a shared musical passion and after Plant joined the band, they began their writing collaboration with reworkings of earlier blues songs, although Plant would receive no songwriting credits on the band's first album, allegedly because he was still under contract to CBS Records at the time. Plant brought along [[John Bonham]] as drummer, and along with [[John Paul Jones (musician)|John Paul Jones]], who had worked with Jimmy Page as a studio musician, [[Led Zeppelin]] was formed in 1968. Their [[Led Zeppelin (album)|self-titled debut album]] hit the charts in 1969 and is widely credited as a catalyst for the [[Heavy metal music|heavy metal]] genre. Ironically, Plant has commented that it is unfair for people to think of Zeppelin as "heavy metal," since almost a third of their music was acoustic.<ref>''The History of Rock 'n' Roll: The '70s: Have a Nice Decade''</ref>



===Later years===
Plant's time with Led Zeppelin was not without its problems, however. In 1975, he and his wife Maureen were seriously injured in a car crash in [[Rhodes, Greece]]. This significantly affected the production of Led Zeppelin's seventh album ''[[Presence]]'' for a few months while he recovered, and forced the band to cancel the remaining tour dates for the year.

Things took an even greater turn for the worse in 1977 when his oldest son Karac died of a stomach infection when Plant was engaged on [[Led Zeppelin concert tour chronology|Led Zeppelin's concert tour]] of the [[United States]]. Karac's death later inspired him to write the song "[[All My Love (song)|All My Love]]" in tribute, featured on Led Zeppelin's final studio [[Gramophone record|LP]], 1979's ''[[In Through the Out Door]]''.

==Solo career==
After the breakup of Led Zeppelin in 1980, Plant pursued a successful solo career beginning with his first solo album, ''[[Pictures at Eleven]]'' in 1982, followed by 1983's ''[[The Principle of Moments]]''. Popular tracks from this period include "[[Big Log]]" (a Top 20 hit in 1983), "In the Mood (1984), "Little by Little" (1985), "Tall Cool One" (a #25 hit in 1988) and "I Believe" (1993), another song written for and dedicated to his late son, Karac. In 1984, Plant formed a short-lived all-star group with Jimmy Page and [[Jeff Beck]] called [[The Honeydrippers]], who had a #3 hit with a remake of the [[Phil Phillips]]' tune, "[[Sea of Love (song)|Sea of Love]]", along with a lesser hit with "Rockin' at Midnight." Plant avoided performing Led Zeppelin songs through much of this period.

On rare occasions, Plant performed with both surviving members of Led Zeppelin: In 1985 for [[Live Aid]] (with [[Phil Collins]] and [[Tony Thompson]] on drums), 1988 for [[Atlantic Records]] 40th anniversary, and in 1995 when the band was inducted into the [[Rock and Roll Hall of Fame]], the last two with Bonham's son [[Jason Bonham|Jason]] filling in on drums. Additionally, Plant, Jones, and Page attended—and later performed at Jason's wedding in 1990.

Through the 1980s and 1990s, Plant co-wrote three solo albums with keyboardist/songwriter [[Phil Johnstone]]. ''[[Now and Zen]]'', ''[[Manic Nirvana]]'', and ''[[Fate of Nations]]''. It was Johnstone who talked Plant into playing Zeppelin songs in his live shows, something Plant had resisted, not wanting to be forever known as "the former Led Zeppelin vocalist." Plant first collaborated with Jimmy Page post-Zeppelin in the studio on the 1988 Page solo effort, ''[[Outrider (album)|Outrider]]''. He later collaborated with Page on the 1998 album, ''[[Walking into Clarksdale]]'', which features all original material from the pair. Starting at the close of 1999, Plant performed at several small venues with his folk-rock band, named [[Priory of Brion]].
[[Image:Plantandfan2007.jpg|thumb|right|175px|Robert Plant (left) posing with a fan after a [[The Who]] concert that was held in London [[31 March]] [[2007]]]]
In 2002, with his then newly-formed band [[Strange Sensation]], Plant released a widely acclaimed collection of mostly blues and folk remakes, ''[[Dreamland (Robert Plant album)|Dreamland]]''. Contrasting with this lush collection of often relatively obscure remakes, the second album with Strange Sensation ''[[Mighty ReArranger]]'' (2005), contains new, original songs. Both have received some of the most favorable reviews of Plant's solo career and four [[Grammy]] nominations, two in 2003 and two in 2006.

As a former member of Led Zeppelin, along with [[Jimmy Page]] and [[John Paul Jones (musician)|John Paul Jones]], Plant received the Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 2005 and the [http://www.polarmusicprize.se/ Polar Music Prize] in 2006. Plant still actively tours, the most recent taking place in US and Europe during 2005/2006 with Strange Sensation. His sets typically include recent, but not only, solo material and plenty of Led Zeppelin favorites, often with new and expanded arrangements. A DVD titled ''[[Soundstage: Robert Plant and the Strange Sensation]]'', featuring his Soundstage performance (filmed at the Soundstage Studios in
Chicago on September 16, 2005), was released in October 2006.
An expansive box set of his solo work, [[Nine Lives (Robert Plant album)|Nine Lives]], was released in November 2006. It was reported on [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003605490| Billboard's Website] that Robert is contributing a track to the [[Fats Domino]] tribute album entitled "It Keeps Rainin'". The performers list indicates that he will cover the song with the "Lil' Band o' Gold".

Recently, Plant has been recording music with bluegrass star [[Alison Krauss]]. The album, ''Raising Sand'', will be released on October 23, 2007 on Rounder Records, the label announced on August 5, 2007. The album that has been recorded in Nashville and Los Angeles includes the two songwriters doing lesser-known material from R&B, blues, folk, and country songwriters including Mel Tillis, Townes Van Zandt, Gene Clark, Tom Waits, Doc Waltson, Little Milton Campbell, and the Everly Brothers.

==Voice and singing technique==
{{tone|section}}
Robert Plant's voice and singing technique were very unusual compared to other rock lead singers of the era such as [[John Lennon]], [[Paul McCartney]], [[Mick Jagger]] and others, and these traits helped to define the unique sound of Led Zeppelin and ultimately the heavy metal vocal style.{{Fact|date=July 2007}} Plant possesses a high tenor voice and his vocal style is showcased in many Led Zeppelin songs such as "[[Communication Breakdown]]", "[[Dazed and Confused (song)|Dazed and Confused]]","[[Since I've Been Loving You]]" and "[[Whole Lotta Love]]". Plant became one of the most significant rock singers of the 1970s (and of all time), influencing the style of many of his contemporaries like [[Steven Tyler]], [[Paul Stanley]], [[Freddie Mercury]], [[Bon Scott]], [[Geddy Lee]] and [[Robin Zander]], and later rock vocalists such as [[Brian Johnson]], [[Axl Rose]], [[Eddie Vedder]], [[Chris Cornell]], [[Koshi Inaba]], [[Chris Robinson]], [[Shannon Hoon]], [[Andrew Stockdale]] and [[Justin Hawkins]].{{Fact|date=July 2007}}.

==Lyrics==
Plant's lyrics are often mystical, philosophical and spiritual, alluding to events in classical and [[Norse mythology]], such as in the song "[[No Quarter (song)|No Quarter]]" which refers to the god [[Thor]], and the "[[Immigrant Song]]", which refers to [[Valhalla]] and [[Viking]] conquests. Another example is "[[The Rain Song]]", which contains allusions to various pagan rituals.

Plant was also influenced by [[J. R. R. Tolkien]], whose book series inspired lyrics in some early Led Zeppelin songs. Most notably the "[[Battle of Evermore]]", "[[Misty Mountain Hop]]" and "[[Ramble On]]" all contain verses referencing Tolkien's ''[[The Lord of the Rings]]''. Conversely, Plant sometimes used more straightforward blues-based lyrics dealing primarily with sexual innuendo, as in "[[The Lemon Song]]", "[[Trampled Under Foot]]", and "[[Black Dog (song)|Black Dog]]".

The passion diverse musical experiences drove Plant to explore Africa, specifically [[Morocco]], whose musical inspiration most evidently culminated in the classic track "[[Kashmir (song)|Kashmir]]" (which, ironically, is not in North Africa, but rather between [[India]] and [[Pakistan]]). Both he and Jimmy Page revisited these influences during their reunion album ''[[No Quarter: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant Unledded]]'' in 1994. In his solo career, Plant again tapped from these influences many times, most notably in the 2002 album, ''[[Dreamland (Robert Plant album)|Dreamland]]''.

Undoubtedly one of Plant's most significant and influential achievements with Led Zeppelin was his contribution to the track "[[Stairway to Heaven]]", an epic rock [[ballad]] featured on ''[[Led Zeppelin IV]]'' that drew influence from [[folk music|folk]], [[blues]], [[Celtic music|Celtic traditional music]] and [[hard rock]] among other genres. Most of the lyrics of the song were written spontaneously by Plant in 1970 at [[Headley Grange]]. While never released as a single, the song has topped charts as the greatest song of all time on various polls around the world. Other fans however argue that Plant made a better performance in other Led Zeppelin epics such as "[[Kashmir (song)|Kashmir]]" or "[[Achilles Last Stand]]".

Plant is also recognised for his lyrical improvisation in [[Led Zeppelin concerts|Led Zeppelin's live performances]], often singing verses previously unheard on studio recordings. One of the most famous Led Zeppelin musical devices involves Plant's vocal mimicking of bandmate [[Jimmy Page]]'s guitar effects. This can be heard in the songs "[[How Many More Times]]", "Dazed and Confused", "[[You Shook Me]]", and "[[Sick Again]]". He's also known for his light-hearted and humorous on-stage banter, often referred to as "plantations."

==Persona==
Plant enjoyed great success with Led Zeppelin throughout the 1970s and developed a compelling image as the charismatic rock-and-roll front man much like [[Roger Daltrey]] of [[The Who]] and [[Jim Morrison]] of [[The Doors]]. With his mane of long blond hair and powerful, bare-chested appearance, Plant helped perhaps more than any other artist to create the "[[god of rock and roll]]" or "rock god" archetype. On stage, Robert was (and still is) particularly active in live performances, often dancing, jumping, snapping his fingers, clapping, making emphatic gestures to emphasise a lyric or cymbal crash, throwing back his head, or placing his hands on his hips. As the 1970s progressed he, along with the other members of Led Zeppelin, became increasingly flamboyant onstage and wore more elaborate, colourful clothing and jewelry. In 1975, he was reported to have exclaimed the phrase "I am a Golden god!" from the balcony of the [[Continental Hyatt House]] in [[Los Angeles, California]] (reference to which was later made in [[Cameron Crowe]]'s film, ''[[Almost Famous]]'').

He is a huge football fan, and has been a life-long supporter, and a season-ticket ticket-holder, of the Wolverhampton Wanderers. Once faced with the prospect of a clash between a possible Wolves FA Cup Final appearance, and the start of the Page-Plant tour, Plant remarked that if Wolves made the final, Jimmy Page would have to play that date on his own. Unfortunately for Wolves and Plant, Wolves lost in the semi-final, and Plant didn't have to choose.

Plant is also a big fan of Laser Quest and often plays at his local arena in Stourbridge with his grown up son.

==Tributes==

*An achievement in the [[Xbox 360]] version of the game [[Guitar Hero II]], is titled the "Page and Plant Award", given to two players who can hit 100% of the notes in cooperative mode.

==Notes==
<references/>

==Solo discography==
*''[[Pictures at Eleven]]'' (1982), UK #2 US #5
*''[[The Principle of Moments]]'' (1983), UK #7 US #8
*''[[The Honeydrippers: Volume One]]'' (1984), with [[Jimmy Page]] US #3
*''[[Shaken 'n' Stirred]]'' (1985), US #20 UK #19
*''[[Now and Zen]]'' (1988), US #6 UK #10
*''[[Manic Nirvana]]'' (1990), US #13 UK#15
*''[[Fate of Nations]]'' (1993), US #34 UK #6
*''[[No Quarter: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant Unledded]]'' (1994), as [[Page and Plant]]UK #7
*''[[Walking into Clarksdale]]'' (1998), as [[Page and Plant]]UK #3 US #8
*''[[Dreamland (Robert Plant album)|Dreamland]]'' (2002), US #40
*''[[Sixty Six to Timbuktu]]'' (2003) Best Of, US #134
*''[[Mighty ReArranger]]'' (2005), with [[Strange Sensation]], US #22 UK #4
*''[[Nine Lives (Robert Plant album)|Nine Lives]]'' (2006), a [[box set]] of his previous albums, with unreleased tracks and B-sides.
*''[[Soundstage: Robert Plant and the Strange Sensation]] (2006), DVD [http://www.universalmusiconline.com/robert-plant/strange/ Watch the trailer]
*''[[Raising Sand]]'' (2007), with [[Alison Krauss]]

==External links==
*[http://www.ledzeppelin.com Led Zeppelin Official Site]
*[http://www.robertplant.com/ Official Robert Plant Homepage]
*[http://home.att.net/~chuckayoub/Led_Zeppelin_Sound_2.htm Interview with Robert Plant]
*[http://www.rickmcgrath.com/ledzep.html 1971 Interview with Robert Plant by underground press journalist Rick McGrath.]
*[http://afropop.org/multi/interview/ID/38/Robert+Plant-Mali%2C+2003 2003 Afropop Worldwide Interview with Robert Plant in Mali]
*[http://www.bbc.co.uk/blackcountry/content/articles/2007/09/06/robert_plant_feature.shtml BBC interview with Robert Plant about the Led Zeppelin reunion]

{{Robert Plant}}
{{Led Zeppelin}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Plant, Robert}}
[[Category:1948 births]]
[[Category:English male singers]]
[[Category:English songwriters]]
[[Category:English rock singers]]
[[Category:Led Zeppelin members]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:People from West Bromwich]]
[[Category:Grammy Award winners]]
[[Category:Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees]]
[[Category:Falsettos]]

[[bg:Робърт Плант]]
[[cs:Robert Plant]]
[[da:Robert Plant]]
[[de:Robert Plant]]
[[es:Robert Plant]]
[[fr:Robert Plant]]
[[ga:Robert Plant]]
[[gd:Robert Plant]]
[[id:Robert Plant]]
[[it:Robert Plant]]
[[he:רוברט פלאנט]]
[[nl:Robert Plant]]
[[ja:ロバート・プラント]]
[[no:Robert Plant]]
[[pl:Robert Plant]]
[[pt:Robert Plant]]
[[ru:Плант, Роберт]]
[[sl:Robert Plant]]
[[sr:Роберт Плант]]
[[fi:Robert Plant]]
[[sv:Robert Plant]]
[[tr:Robert Plant]]

Shut Up and Drive

2007-09-14T18:45:06Z

Duff man2007: /* Music video */

{{CurrentSingles}}
{{Infobox Single 
| Name = Shut Up and Drive
| B-Sides = [[Don't Stop The Music]]
| Cover = Shut Up and Drive - Single.PNG
| Artist = [[Rihanna]]
| from Album = [[Good Girl Gone Bad]]
| Released = [[June 12]], [[2007]] ([[U.S.]])<ref>http://fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=69239</ref> [[August 27]], [[2007]] ([[UK]])<ref>http://www.defjam.co.uk/</ref>
| Format = [[12" maxi single]], [[digital download]]
| Recorded = 2007
| Genre = [[Pop rock]]
| Length = 3:33
| Label = [[Def Jam]]
| Writer = [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers|Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers]] & [[New Order]]
| Producer = Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers
| Certification =
| Chart position =
* 4 ([[Australia]])
* 5 ([[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]], [[United Kingdom]])
* 6 ([[Canada]])
* 8 ([[Poland]])
* 9 ([[Netherlands]])
* 11 ([[World]])
* 12 ([[Europe]])
* 15 ([[United States]])
* 17 ([[New Zealand]])
* 31 ([[Sweden]])
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Hate That I Love You]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = [[UK]] singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Don't Stop the Music (Rihanna song)|Don't Stop the Music]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Upper caption = Alternate covers
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic1.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic2.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
}}

"'''Shut Up and Drive'''" is a song written by [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers]] for [[Rihanna]]'s third album ''[[Good Girl Gone Bad]]'' (2007). The track uses a reworked version of [[New Order]]'s "[[Blue Monday (New Order song)|Blue Monday]]" as the main musical theme.<ref>[http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde] ''Wc02.allmusic.com'' </ref> Its lyrics use [[automobile]]s as a metaphor for the persona in an offer of [[sexual intercourse|sex]].<ref name="vv"/> It was released as the second North American single in June 2007 (see [[2007 in music]]).<ref>[http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/3-0&fp=465c3e50374d037d&ei=LMRcRpWoF4-UpQKp1tT6DA&url=http%3A//www.mtv.com/news/articles/1560279/20070523/lohan_lindsay.jhtml&cid=0 MTV].</ref> It debuted on the ''[[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]]'' [[Hot 100]] at number 88 and has so far peaked at number fifteen.<ref name=Reigns>Jonathan Cohen, [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003598985 "Rihanna's 'Umbrella' Reigns Again Atop Hot 100"], Billboard.com, June 14, 2007.</ref>

==Critical reception==
The song has received mixed reviews from music critics. ''[[Slant Magazine]]'' found that the song did not live up to its [[campy]] title,<ref>Cinquemani, Sal. [http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/music_review.asp?ID=1135 "Music Review: Rihanna: Good Girl Gone Bad"]. ''[[Slant Magazine]]''. [[May 22]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> and ''[[The Village Voice]]'' described it as simultaneously "goofy and sexually daring".<ref name="vv">Dugue, Rodney. [http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0723,dugue,76851,22.html "Mediocre Girl Gone Good"]. ''[[The Village Voice]]''. [[June 5]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> [[All Music Guide]], however, referred to it as "a sleek, forthcoming proposition…as undeniable and rocking as [[Sugababes]]' 2002 UK smash '[[Freak Like Me#Sugababes version|Freak Like Me]]'".<ref>Kellman, Andy. [http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jcftxz85ld0e~T00 "Good Girl Gone Bad > Overview"]. [[All Music Guide]]. 2007. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref>

==Music video==
[[Image:ShutUpAndDriveVideo.jpg|left|thumb|Rihanna working on a car in the music video.]]

The song's [[music video]] is directed by [[David LaChapelle]] and is opens with Rihanna driving a [[Ferrari F430]] into a garage. Rihanna and several other girls start working in the car mechanic garage in a suggestive manner, before slamming the hoods down on cue with the first "Shut Up and Drive" part of the lyrics. The video then cuts to a scene where two cars are preparing to race. Rihanna and her friends show up, and Rihanna proceeds to flirt with the two race car drivers through the open windows of their cars at the starting line. She then directs the drivers to "Shut Up and Drive", and they take off. The next scene shows Rihanna performing with her band. Throughout the video, Rihanna is also shown in the car garage, and walking around the race yard.

The video premiered on MTV's ''[[Total Request Live]]'' on [[July 4]], [[2007]]. On [[July 9]], [[2007]], it debuted on the ''TRL'' countdown at number ten for the first time and has been on the countdown for twenty nine days and so far has peaked at #4 as of [[August 20]], [[2007]].

Rihanna's first promotional venues for Shut Up And Drive were on the British [[television]] shows [[This Morning]], [[The Friday Night Project]] and [[DanceX]]. Rihanna also performed Shut Up And Drive in public prior to its release at venues including [[Stripped Music]], [[Live Earth]], [[AOL Music Sessions]], and several concerts not shown on [[television]]. The music video was also used in 2007 [[NASCAR]] [[NEXTEL Cup]] broadcasts on [[NASCAR on ESPN|ESPN]]. The song has also been used in the promotional commercial for the [[The CW Television Network | CW]]'s reality television series [[America's Next Top Model]] for Cycle 9, and the new show [[Carpoolers]] on ABC.

Rihanna performed the song on the [[2007 MTV Video Music Awards]] with [[Fall Out Boy]], and on [[The Ellen DeGeneres Show]].

==Track listing==
;Vinyl CD Single<ref>[http://www.juno.co.uk/products/279088-01.htm Vinyl CD Single]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Instrumental)

;UK CD Single<ref>[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shut-Up-Drive-Rhianna/dp/B000UNBQQY]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)

==Chart performance==
Shut Up and Drive debuted on Australian [[ARIA Charts|ARIA Singles Chart]] at number 4. It also reached at number 11 in [[United World Chart]].

===Charts===
{|class="wikitable"
!align="left"|Chart (2007)
!align="center"|Peak position
|-
|align="left"|[[ARC Weekly Top 40]]<ref>[http://www.rockonthenet.com/charts/arc.htm ARC Weekly Top 40]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|Romanian Top 100 <ref>[http://www.rt100.ro/top-100-edition.html Romania Top 100]</ref>
|align="center"|33
|-
|align="left"|Bulgarian Airplay Chart<ref>[http://theveronicas.free.fr/C1300forums/index.php?showtopic=2632]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Australian ARIA Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1U50 Australian Top 50 Singles Chart]. [[ARIA Charts|ARIA]]. Retrieved on [[September 9]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Brazil Hot 100<ref>[http://www.hot100brasil.com/chtsinglesb.html Brazil Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|84
|-
|align="left"|Canadian Hot 100<ref name="billboard">[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Canadian+Hot+100]</ref>
|align="center"|6
|-
|align="left"|[[Dutch Top 40]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|EURO 200<ref>[http://www.euro200.eu/ Euro 200]</ref>
|align="center"|12
|-
|align="left"|Hit List Portugal<ref>[http://www.mtv.pt/mtv.pt/charts/index.jhtml Hit List Portugal]</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Irish Singles Chart<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|New Zealand RIANZ Singles Chart<ref>[http://charts.org.nz/showitem.asp?key=322634&cat=s Rihanna - Shut Up and Drive (song)]. charts.org.nz. Retrieved on [[August 26]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|17
|-
|align="left"|[[Poland|Polish]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Polish-Top50.htm Polish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|8
|-
|align="left"|[[Portuguese]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Portugese-Top50.htm Portuguese Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|28
|-
|align="left"|[[Singapore]] Airplay Chart<ref>[http://www.power98.com.sg/pages/red_hot_30.php Singapore AirplayChart]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Swedish top 60<ref>[http://www.swedishcharts.com/weekchart.asp?cat=s Swedish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|31
|-
|align="left"|Turkey Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.capitalradio.com.tr/hot40/hot40_cr.asp Turkey Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|UK Top 75 Singles<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|[[United World Chart]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|11
|-
|align="left"|U.S. [[Billboard Hot 100|''Billboard'' Hot 100]]<ref name=acharts>[http://acharts.us/song/26455 "Rihanna - Shut Up And Drive global chart positions and trajectories"]. aCharts.us. Retrieved [[July 31]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|15
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' [[Pop 100]]<ref> [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/retrieve_chart_history.do?model.vnuArtistId=658897&model.vnuAlbumId=933955]</ref>
|align="center"|10
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' European Hot 100<ref>[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?f=European+Hot+100+Singles&pageNumber=Top+11-50&g=Singles European Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|16
|-
|}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* [http://music.defjam.com/www2/av_player/AVPlayer.php?av_asset_id=11921&av_link_group_id=558&av_type_id=2&cms_site_id=1 "Shut Up and Drive" music video]
* [http://music.unrealitytv.co.uk/rihanna-shut-up-and-drive/ Review of Shut Up And drive by Unreality Music]

{{Rihanna}}

[[Category:2007 singles]]
[[Category:Pop rock songs]]
[[Category:Rihanna songs]]
[[Category:Songs with sexual themes]]

[[he:Shut Up and Drive]]
[[pl:Shut Up & Drive]]

User talk:Duff man2007

2007-09-12T14:17:17Z

Duff man2007: /* AKRadeckiSpeaketh, you gotta be joking me. */ new section

User talk:Duff man2007

2007-09-12T05:03:22Z

Duff man2007: /* Akradecki, please un-ban me */ new section

Talk:Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:59:07Z

Duff man2007: /* People, do not git rid of the "[citation needed]s". */ new section

{{talkheader}}
{{HaloWikiProject|class=B}}
{{cvgproj|class=B|importance=mid|small=yes}}
{{Archive box|
*[[/Archive 1|1: July — November 2006]]
*[[/Archive 2|2: November — December 2006]]
*[[/Archive 3|3: December 2006 — January 2007]]
*[[/Archive 4|4: January 2007 - April 2007]]
*[[/Archive 5|5: April 2007 - June 2007]]}}

''Why isnt it for pc'''''Bold text''' —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.224.191.90|74.224.191.90]] ([[User talk:74.224.191.90|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Forerunners? ==

has anyone noticed that in the game, the forerunners, thoguh not specifically described, seem to have been some type of human race?

got info from listening to the monitor in halo 1, and reading halo: the flood and halo:ghosts of onyx. tidbits of dialogue and documents seem to imply tht the forrunners may have been human
[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
::The discussion page is only for topics pertaining to the article itself, not the game. If you want to speculate, go find a relevant message board. [[User:Amalga|Amalga]] —The preceding {{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} | | comment was }} [[Wikipedia:Signatures|signed but undated]]{{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} | | | comment was added at {{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} (UTC{{{Zone|{{{3|{{{2|}}}}}}}}}) }}. 

:::i was hoping sm1 would know if they have released any info on if the forerunners will make an appearence in halo 3. didnt make that clear. sry. [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
::::In regards to information about the storyline, Bungie's been pretty mum about the in-depth details. Whether or not the Forerunners will appear in Halo 3 is not a storyline detail they'd want to reveal before the game comes out, so no. No information has been released. [[User:Amalga|Amalga]] 04:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::According to the Halo ARG "Iris", the Forerunners were not human. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.167.2.89|67.167.2.89]] ([[User talk:67.167.2.89|talk]]) 02:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

and where did u get that information? a link would be nice. cuz i played the iris game and it said nothing about being or not being human [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== '''Gameplay revisions''' ==

Consider revisign the Gameplay section, most of it seems extremely useless to the article, much of the information if very obvious and present in almost any game.

I Agree, the grammar and puncuation is poor. There are uneccessary commas all over the place.

It also it states that the game follows The Master Chief, with no mention of the Arbiter.

It also contains opinion - when mentioning the Multiplayer element of the game "... and is the primary reason for the series' enormous success." The games Halo:CE and Halo 2 were hugely successful despite the multiplayer element.

English is also poor eg when describing it as a first person shooter it states that the game "Largely builds off of previous renditions of the franchise..." Surely this should read "Largely builds on.." or "Largely builds upon..."

That is just a few examples.

[[User:63.174.7.252|63.174.7.252]] 11:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

these have been fixed, courtesy of yours truly[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

==Just Wondering==
You do realize that Truth isn't the last Prophet, right?

:yeah but hes the one in power right now, so we don't really care about the rest of his race.[[User:157.174.221.167|157.174.221.167]] 20:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

True, but it matters on what you define as 'the prophets'. yes, theres more prophets or people that look like him. But the proftet of truth's kind may not be called prophets, and might be called somethiung different.--[[User:Leemyster|leemyster]] 13:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Campain Choice ==

There is a rumor going around Halo 3 forums that you can choose who you can play as, Meaning you either play as the Arbiter or the Master Chief, your choice.
[http://www.halo3forum.com/halo-3-general-discussion/148071-discovery-about-co-op-in-h3-from-the-trailer-2.html#post2617394 Link to rumor]

At this stage there is no ''confirmation''. When Bungie says whether the Arbiter is playable or not we can add it, until then there's no need to mention it. I personally think he will be available as a coop character, but that's just my opinion and it shouldn't be added to the article (my opinion that is). [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 09:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Huh. Looks like the latest issue of EGM says that the Arbiter ''is'' playable in Halo 3's campaign. Whaddya know. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 16:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
:Since I am at work and cant get onto the EGM page can you tell me what date they are putting it on the shelves?[[User:Xenocide321|Xenocide321]] 19:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think its for sure but since the arbiter is playing along side the Master Cheif vertially the entire game there would be no purpose in having 2 different campain's and the fact that the arbiter is a co-op player might enhance this thought. Im not posative just a guess.

Campain Choice has been confirmed [http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack| Bungie news]

No it hasn't. However, the Arbiter is available in co-op. Also, your link is broken.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Extra grenade? ==

In the E3 2007 trailer; at 0:50 (50 seconds) there is a 1st person view of MC killing a brute with a battle rifle and if you look at his grenades he has 4 types. It's '''not''' equipment (like a shield drainer or bubble shield) because that is displayed under the grenades. Is it known what it is or hasn't Bungie said anything? [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 04:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[[:Image:Screenshoth3e307.png]]

Currenty it's unknown... Hackers found an Agility powerup or piece of equipment, in the beta code, and its speculated that this is it. [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 15:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

:Ok thanks, and at the moment that screenshot needs to be put in an article or it will be deleted (see [[WP:FU]]), sorry to be such a copyright-nut. [[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 01:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

In the next months EGM mag there is a ton of new tHalo 3 info,the 4th grenade is the Flare, a smoke grenade of sorts. There are more new weapons shown too! Gravity Hammer - a shockwave-generating device that's used for close-range attacks and vehicle disruptions. The Mauler - a dual-wield shotgun.[[User:valo_sweet_666|valo_sweet_666]]

:The Flare is a new piece of equipment, similar to the Portable Grav Lift, Power Drainer, and Bubble Shield available in the multiplayer beta. Even in EGM, the fourth grenade remains more of a rumor than anything. "We saw hints of a fourth grenade type, though it never actually appeared in action. Bungie won't give any details on this possible addition--or whether it will even be included in the final game." [[User:Brent Butler|Brent Butler]] [[Special:Contributions/Brent Butler|contribs]][[User talk:Brent Butler|talk]] 16:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

it has been confirmed 2 days ago by bungie that the 4th grenade is the fire grenade. heres link http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12699

== EGM Leak ==

Should that be included? It was leaked on the GameFAQS board and there were quite a few pictures...[[User:Argias|Argias]] 01:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Where is this leak? [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 01:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

On the Halo 3 board on GameFAQS. Just ask them for the stuff and they'll post it. I can't, as I was recently banned.

Link: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=926632&topic=36863163 No pics though... [[User:Argias|Argias]] 04:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oeaFIrBz2vA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9XHxwI_dqEU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MrG93-6AbtI

== ONLINE CO-OP ==

Following reports earlier in the month that online co-operative gameplay was on the verge of not making it in Halo 3, Bungie has today confirmed that the four player Online Co-Op is now confirmed! [[User:Valo sweet 666|Valo sweet 666]] 04:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

They've announced that Player One will play as Master Chief. Player Two will be the Arbiter. Players Three and Four will be elite soldiers. All three will have identical abilities, aside from the starting weapon which will be carbines for the elites instead of the battle rifle which Master Chief will use. Here are some details about those characters directly from Bungie.net:

PLAYER 3 (Sangheili)

Name: N’tho ‘Sraom
Affiliation: Fleet of Retribution/Special Warfare Group/Special Operations
History: N’tho ‘Sraom is the youngest member of his Special Operations unit and is one of a growing number of human sympathizers amongst the Sangheili youth. He is a fairly typical young male adult Sangheili—he began compulsory military service at the end of adolescence, and remains unmarried with no close, non-familial relationships outside of his martial order. N’tho Sraom refused to stand idly by while the Prophets replaced Sangheili units with Jiralhanae packs, and now bears deep resentment toward those Sangheili politicians who landed his kind in their current predicament.

Although N’tho ‘Sraom’s romanticized nationalism is emblematic of all Sangheili, he has developed a healthy respect for humanity—not for their physical abilities or martial prowess, but for their audacity and resolve.

PLAYER 4 (Sangheili)

Name: Usze ‘Taham
Affiliation: Fleet of Retribution/Special Warfare Group/Fleet Security
History: Although Usze ‘Taham was born into a respected merchant family he was fathered by Toha ‘Sumai—one of the preeminent swordfighters of this age. Usze graduated with honors from the top War College in the Iruiru region of Yermo, Sanghelios (a distinction he shares with Rtas 'Vadum). Shortly after receiving his first post within the Covenant Navy he was offered a place on the Prophets’ Honor Guard but he declined citing “lack of practical experience”. In truth, he had no desire to be part of a largely ceremonial unit, and at the end of his third combat tour, Usze ‘Taham again refused the post—even though his superiors warned him such behavior could be misinterpreted as apostasy.

Since that time Usze has evaded countless punitive actions, at least two assassination attempts, and served with distinction for two additional tours before the Schism. Following the dissolution of the Covenant, he was approached by the Ascetics to become one of their liaisons within the Navy.
[[User:Hammet1982|Hammet1982]] 21:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

:If a source is needed, this was stated in the August 1st Bungie podcast. [[User:64.230.63.54|64.230.63.54]] 07:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

:: '''''Done''''', added to the article with a citation to the announcement about it on b.net [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

== typo fix ==
{{tl|editprotected}} Gameplay section, third paragraph, first sentence, "were it is most useful" should read "where it is most useful"
:done. [[User:Od Mishehu|Od]] [[User talk:Od Mishehu|Mishehu]] 07:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

== New Information Via EGM Magazine (08/07) ==

=== New Weapons ===

* Mauler- Brute shotgun. Dual-wield.

=== New Equipment ===

* Regenerator- Regenerates shields.
* Flare- Blinds all that view the flash.
* Radar Jammer- Creates fake blips on enemy motion detectors.

is the equipment like bubble-sheild and trip mine available in camapign?[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 13:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

=== New Vehicles ===

* Hornet- Human aerial vehicle. Appears to have vertical takeoff and landing.
* Prowler- Brute vehicle like the Elite Specter.
* Warthog Personel Carrier- Human Warthog with room for soldiers in the back "cab".
* Elephant- Large vehicle that looks like a [[Sandcrawler]]. Moves very slow and is protected by mounted turrets. Houses a spawn point, flag spawn, and flag return.

:: Thats great anonymous user. But unless you fix us up a nice citation using [[Template:Cite_journal]] or [[Template:Citation]], we can't use the info. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

:::I dont have the link from the article because i cant get it at work, but I too have seen this information on the egm.1up.com site. [[User:Xenocide321|Xenocide321]] 18:30, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== More magazine tidbits (Edge 179) ==

Over today, I'll be adding a few new tidbits about Halo 3 to the article from the latest [[Edge (magazine)|Edge]] magazine in the UK. I'll also be adding full cites to bits I add as well, just to make it proper. Please don't worry about this being a leak, or false information. I have the magazine right in front of me, and assuming EDGE themselves didn't get it wrong, it is all correct.

One tidbit that i've just added; there are '''53,595''' pieces of audio in Halo 3, of which '''39,368''' are of NPC dialogue. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

== Million Preorders ==

the news hitting the intertubes today is that there have already been one million copies sold, over a month before release. is this notable enough to put in the article? is it a record of any kind? -anon

:I think so, a mention in the lead section should do saying it's one of the most anticipated games with more than 1 million copies pre-ordered, with a source of course. Speaking of which, I had to go searching to pre-order my legendary edition, they're sold out at so many places now. I had to drive ~30km to find a store that wasn't sold out! (it's a long way considering how many stores there are near me). [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I only preordered the cheapest version of the game... saving the bigs bucks for the GTA4 special edition... Anyway, According to the article now this is or is not a new record for preorders. Someone added a new source showing higher preorders for halo 2. I think it has something to do with how quickly they got to 1 million preorders... I'll be looking for a source, and I'm betting I'll be able to find a source that states 2 Million or more pre-orders for this game by the time the launch finally hits. -anon

== HALO 3 PROMOTION!!! ==

Jesus Christ, scroll down to the bottom. lots of new info regardign the promotion for the game. [[User:Brownstone999|Brownstone999]] 18:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

== FLAMETHROWER!!!! ==

[http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html] You have to put this in its so sweet!!

Can you find another source to confirm this information by? [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 16:40, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

has been confirmed by bungie [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 03:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

== Legendary Edition image ==

I found a free image of the legendary edition ([[:Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg]]) though I'm not sure where to add it to the article, I think that the "Different versions" section would have too much white space if I were to add it there. Any suggestions, or just go ahead if you have a good idea. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 03:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

== Note ==

It states in weapons that you cannot hide a seconday weapon, however the energy sword in the beta would deactivate after being switched, allowing you to hide it. [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 16:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

:However, it still visibly appeared on the players leg. So its not invisible when you switch like it was in previous games. Thats the point of the sentence in the article. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 09:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== Halo 3 Epsilon and new flame weapons ==

I recommend you mention the halo 3 epsilon that is currently active. Bungie has yet to confirm this epsilon but many trustworthy websites have written about it and I have personally seen someone playing the halo 3 epsilon.
Links to some websites:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812230p1.html
http://kotaku.com/gaming/soon/so-whats-halo-3-epsilon-288442.php
http://kotaku.com/gaming/and-nothing-but-the-truth/the-truth-behind-halo-3-epsilon-288565.php
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EElyluyuuASXUMvxWV.php

Regarding the flamethrower and firebomb, these were confirmed by IGN and included an interview with a Bungie employee. "O'Connor confirmed that the gadget (bubble shield) will provide safe haven from fire."It will wash over the shield. It will actually burn on the surface of the shield."

:The Epsilon is just another stage of internal testing. As the article stands theres no real place for it. However, if there was a "development" section, it could be mentioned there. Oh, and firebomb and flamethrower have been added now. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 09:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== More info on Meta-Game scoring ==

I don't remember where I read it (new EGM I think, but I don't have a copy) but they have released how the meta-game scoring will go. It will be based on things like head-shots, using skulls (which have negative effects), killing mutliple enemies at once, etc. It will essentially work like the stat baords in multiplayer games, but with a point value associated with the different stats and medals as well as some Single-Player only things like using skulls. If anyone has the data on this, I think it would be nice to add to the info for the meta-game since the wording right now is a little weak.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 15:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

: Yes. This is one of the things mentioned in Edge 179 that I meant to update the article with. I don't know about the "killing multiple enemies at once" one, but there are still things that could be added. I'll have a look... [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:24, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::'''Done:''' Well mostly. I reworded most of it, and added info about headshots and speed of progression. Also noting the competitive aspect it introduces to co-op. Oh, plus a quote! [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 15:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

== Post-release cleanup and organization ==

(Just want to get this out of the way) ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]'' and ''[[Halo 2]]'' are both [[WP:FA|featured articles]], so ideally I would like this to be as well. Obviously immediately after it's released there won't be enough critical reception (and face it, we'll all be too busy playing the damn game), however I would like to suggest that shortly before the release we shunt a copy of this page to a subpage, perhaps [[/prerelease]] or whatever; that way, we can trash the main page and reorganize it, while still having a copy in the back (to grab details about development, rumors and prerelease info that will be extremely helpful upon release.) Anyone have any objections to this/improvements? [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] <nowiki>(</nowiki>[[User talk:David Fuchs|talk]]<nowiki>)</nowiki> 22:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think that would be an excellent way to help develop and refine the article. And I completely agree with you on getting this to FA since CE and 2 are FAs. It'll take time, but all good things do. [[User:Cliff smith|Cliff smith]] 23:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

::I also agree, I was wondering myself what we should do with the current article but that sounds like an excellent idea. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:::Yeah. Upon release, it will need a significant rewrite. Because a lot of the stuff is listed chronologically and with lots of "will introduce" "was revealed on" etc. Putting a copy of the article on a subpage does seem like a good reference point for developing an FA worthy article. We'll have to decide exactly what needs to be said in regards to things that are covered in the article now, but aren't covered in counter-part on Halo and Halo 2 pages. Because thinks like the current "technology" or "features" (saved films) section, aren't covered at all in many other game articles. But, perhaps they should be?
:::The article as it stands, is still pretty good I would say. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Yeah, there is nothing about the technology behind the games in the other articles, but also in terms of release marketing and reception- that ''killed'' me when I had to go digging for it at FAC. [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] <nowiki>(</nowiki>[[User talk:David Fuchs|talk]]<nowiki>)</nowiki> 15:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::Um, whats FAC? [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 15:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::::[[WP:FAC]] = Featured article candidates, but it's often referred to as the process of "putting an article through FAC" as in nominating and responding to the discussion. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::: Ah, thought it might be. Just had to check. Thanks [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

==Vague, POV wording here==
I don't like how the following passage was worded. No citation is given and we are not even told which 2 weapons the author found to be the only useful ones in the original Halo. For one, I used every weapon in Halo, and in multi-player I used the Sniper-Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun frequently like many players. Since this ungrounded bias reads like a POV sales pitch for the new game, I'd like to have this sentence rewritten please:

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are ''''famously'' limited only two choices of weapons in Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overwhelmingly the best overall choice for whatever type of situation they may encounter.
--[[User:Charizardpal|Charizardpal]] 20:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

: I wrote that. I was trying to explain the bit about "the balance of weapons..has been altered." Perhaps it seems a little out of context now. It orgininally did say at the end "(such as the M6D in the first Halo)" however someonce decided that wasn't needed and removed it. It still holds true, I feel. If you didn't know what was coming. You'd choose an M6D and the most powerful weapon you could find.
:Now, probably, it does need a rewrite. Though I don't know what could be said. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

::"Only two weapons at any one time" might fit better? [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

== New Toy ==

Speaking of new toys, apparantly Wired magazine confirms a new weapon. Wasn't sure where to post this, but the URL is here...

http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/15-09/ff_halo?currentPage=4

And apparantly describes another turret-type weapon that's covenant based called the Plasma Turret. Does someone want to put this where it needs to go?

-Uwasa

:This is simply a redesign of the existing portable plasma turret. i.e. the one without the shield on the front. Whats new is that it is detachable like the human turret, and the weapon looks more impressive to reflect its powerful nature. [[User:157.174.221.167|157.174.221.167]] 19:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

::Just wanted to add that this turret can be seen in action in the HALO 3 videos form this years PAX. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] ([[User talk:157.174.221.168|talk]]) 20:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 

I was surfing the GameStop website, when I came accross a few more limited editions of another very cool, but some-what pointless Halo 3 extras. Im sure you all know about the SPARTAN and Elite controlers, and the Halo 3 wireless head-set. The 2 new items are the MadCatz Xbox 360 Halo 3 Faceplate/Skin Pack, and the SPNKr Missle cass. Yea that's right, a SPNKr missle cass (the missle ammo pick-ups from the games). From the picture, it looks like it can hold one controller and a wired-headset (or, maybe 2 controllers) and it looks like it has room for 5 CDs. The missle cass is only available online, so dont go to the store looking for one.

The links for the 2 new extras, respectively

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802715

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802720

: - that missle case thingy is pretty cool, very original halo memorabeila —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|22:51:47, August 19, 2007 (UTC)}}} 

[[User:Gundam94|Gundam94]] 17:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== Female Voice ==

I know this feature has been confirmed by Bungie, but has anyone seen anything about when you ever hear it? Those that are familiar with Halo know that the characters voice is never really used in multi. Its just not very clear in the article why having a female voice option matters. The way its written sounds like you speak through character voices instead of just using the xbox live headset and may be misleading to those unfamiliar with the game.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 18:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Its there for when the player dies, you will hear a female scream istead of male. .[[User:Valo sweet 666|Valo sweet 666]] 17 August 2007 (UTC)

:I would have thought it would be the voice that says "double kill" or "flag taken" etc. That would make a more noticable difference that would probably be worth mentioning in a weekly update but then again I'm just speculating. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 03:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

It is when you hear the player die in MultiPlayer. You will never hear it during the campaign, and it does not change the voice of the announcer.--Tyguy92 17:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think its the 'voice mask' that is going to be female or male. they did this because of the increasing amount of female gamers, so it wouldnt be sexist that the only voice mask you could get would be one of a male voice. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Leemyster|Leemyster]] ([[User talk:Leemyster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Leemyster|contribs]]) 13:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 

The female voice that bungie has added will be used when your character is meleed, in halo 2 your character would "grunt" so to speak. now, you can change that grunt to a shriek, it does not change your voice masking, the voice of the announcer, or any other game unrelated aspects, its simply an aesthetic change. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.126.243.32|70.126.243.32]] ([[User talk:70.126.243.32|talk]]) 02:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

== IGN Q&A with Bungie ==

I recently added a quote from Tyson Green of Bungie Studios from a Q/A session at IGN.com. The rest of the interview may have some info that could verify and/or supplement what's already here. [[User:Cliff smith|Cliff smith]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

== Bubble Shield Issue ==

Correct me if I'm worng but as I remember from the Beta, from within the bubble shield you can still fire outwards. If I'm completely wrong, just disregard this. —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|13:08, August 23, 2007 (UTC)}}} 

:No, you can't, it prevents fire both ways. When the beta was available I would approach a bubble and throw a grenade inside. It contains the explosion and pretty much guarantees a kill if there's anyone inside it. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 13:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

::The new stationary shield has a slit you can fire through though. I believe it was confirmed in the EGM issue, but I could be wrong.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

== NEW HALO 3 BLOW OUT ON IGN.COM!!! ==

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/815/815041p1.html

wow, there is so much info we can add on this article. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 21:12, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Quite, I read all the way through it, but not as much as one would think. A case of it says alot without telling us much. There is some useful info there, just alotta waffle around it.[[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 20:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

you phail, there is plenty of info to add due to that link [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:43, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Not that I see. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 05:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks like mostly the same stuff to me [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 02:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC) [[User:The Shroud]]

== Listing ==
For the weapons, maps, equipment, etc., you guys should start listing the confirmed ones and put them in a list instead of the little article that only summerizes a couple of tidbits of information. It's only a month away from Sept. 25 and Bungie and alot of other websites (IGN, 1up, etc.) have confirmed a bunch of other stuff. We should start a list soon. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|22:07, August 24, 2007 (UTC)}}} 
:Wikipedia is not a list. We already had that, but it was eliminated because it was unencyclopedic. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 05:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

::And it was huge. the olde "confirmed elements" section practically took over the whole article. And there are plenty of other sites that will list every weapon and vehicle and map etc. Wikipedia doesn't need to [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== PC Version ==

Please don't attack me for asking this (as I'm afraid Xbox fans will do) but what is the current possibility of a PC version being released or done? They have released a PC version for both the original and Halo 2, are they planning to do the same with Halo 3? Just wondering if anyone knew anything about it and therefore it could be added to the article. [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 07:52, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

:There hasn't been any word of a Halo 3 PC as far as I know, but as you said, the previous 2 had PC versions released later so it's likely there will be some day. There is no confirmation by Bungie or Microsoft though so it can't be added to the article. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 08:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

::Again if the last 2 were released you can expect the same of this one. BUT, the first one wasn't released until just prior to xbox Halo 2 coming out, and Halo2 PC is just now coming out. I wouldn't just hold out for the PC version if I were you because it will be a while, and it'll be pretty outdated by then for PC standards.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

:Seems I'll have to wait for it on the PC, though. [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 20:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Yes, but likely not to long, from what i hear. Deal with it and find a friend with a 360 until it comes out...
I want it for PC too [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 00:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

See this article http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170224&skip=yes [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 00:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

:It will be a few years before the PC version comes out. MS isn't that dumb since this is one of their biggest system sellers.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, a PC version is not being made as of yet. Bungie have already said they want to get the 360 version out before even considering it. But, since the other two were, you can be fairly certain it will eventually come to PC (ahem, Vista). [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== in EGM's latest issue, they gave Halo's AI the "best AI" on the showroom floor ==

This should be included when talking about the AI in the game. Keep in mind that EGM only does console stuff though. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.117.224.11|71.117.224.11]] ([[User talk:71.117.224.11|talk]]) 01:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Burning wood? ==

I saw a vid where the wooden pallets burned, but it cut off early so i don't know [[User:The Shroud]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] ([[User talk:74.245.38.202|talk]]) 02:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 

What vid? do you have a link? [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 17:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

== Gold ==

What does 'gone gold' actually mean in terms of video games? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 16:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC) 

:Gone gold generally means that it it is certidied Golden master, e.g. it's ready for production then shipment. Gold is he last thing a game is certified before it is released to the people that make all those DVDs, who then pass it on to the store lines and such. [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 17:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

::Just a note to clarify, "gone gold" has nothing to do with sales numbers like it does in the music industry. The master copies of optical discs were traditionally (and sometimes still are) gold colored due to the material they were made from and with no real marketing purpose.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== 1up's daily coverage ==

Today there is supposed to be an update but when i went to the website, it was still locked and the date said 9/03/07. Anyone know what time they unlock those? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 14:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC) 
:Check again. It's there now.--[[User:Roeas|Roeas]] 00:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Canadian Money ==

hey can you guys put the prices of the halo 3 game version in Canadian too. If you do thanks. :)[[User:68.145.77.173|68.145.77.173]] 23:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Legendary only available in ... ==

I removed the text "The legendary edition is currently only available in North America and Brazil." because it's unsourced and not true. Why Brazil & not UK? Besides, I live in Australia and have pre-ordered the Legendary without any problems. If there's a source listing the places that the Legendary Edition is available, by all means add the info, but make sure it's reliable. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Havok Engine ==

In the box in the top right corner of the page, where it says which Game Engine is used, shouldn't the Havok Engine be listed as well as the Halo Engine, since Havok is used for physics calculation?--[[User:Roeas|Roeas]] 00:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I'm not sure, on some articles it states the game engine they use, including all the various physics engines, on others it doesn't. I don't see why you can't put it there.[[User:The Lord Of The Crayons|The Lord Of The Crayons]] 00:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Sony, Stay Off Wikipedia ==

Honestly, [http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/09/04/sony-tries-to-secretly-wiki-diss-halo-3-and-fails/ doesn’t Sony have anything better to do?] Trying to edit the Halo 3 Wikipedia page? Didn’t they even know their ISP would be caught? Even if they attempted this from a home ISP, the rules in Wikipedia are fairly clear on speculative, source-less entries, much less weasel-worded opinions. Plus, Sony apparently hasn’t learned good grammar, since they capitalized after a comma.

Maybe Sony should be concentrating on its own software than trying to clumsily sling mud anonymously. [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 18:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sony must have gone crazy. Caught vandalizing rival product article. What an insult for themselves. Its already a hot news out there.--[[User:R.iqbal|R.iqbal]] 18:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I love Halo, but you you guys sound like idiots when you say "sony did this, sony did that." Did you ever stop to consider maybe it was just an employee there. Whether you'd like to beleive it or not, Sony is not stupid, and they did not get to the top of consumer electronics by making dumb marketing moves. If Sony wanted to discredit Halo, I'm sorry, but they would not change the wikipedia entry on it. What would that accomplish. Stop acting like victims, grow up, and think the situation through.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

...Are you serious? If they didn't want to be held accountable they should have done it from a different computer. It doesn't matter whether it was an employee or not, they still are held accountable due to it being done from their IP. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/153.90.68.64|153.90.68.64]] ([[User talk:153.90.68.64|talk]]) 02:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

:my dad works at bungie (his name is frank o'connor) and he gave me halo 3 for my birthday last year and Sony is wrong. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Goatsmoke|Goatsmoke]] ([[User talk:Goatsmoke|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Goatsmoke|contribs]]) 07:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

It is obviously done by some sony employee. But who cares, it's from sony so its done by sony. The mud have been spilled and its sony sony who is disgraced in the end. People are making fun of sony everywhere from game forums to news articles. I assume MS is loughing like hell seeing this news all over the place.--[[User:R.iqbal|R.iqbal]] 07:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::I'd like to request that this discussion ends. Unless it is being discussed as to enter this information in the article or not, this talk page is [[WP:FORUM|not a forum]] for discussion about the article's topic. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 08:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Heh. How is this unrelated to editing the Halo 3 article? (wink) [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 17:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Heck, this is one of the few points on the talk page directly relating to the editing of the article! [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 22:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Saying that "Sony is embarrassed seeing this news all over the place" is a complete exaggeration. Sure, a few people who read news on gaming sites may be laughing, but most regular gamers never heard of the story. I didn't hear about it until this discussion. It's not real news unless the AP or Reuters picks it up, otherwise, it's just a confirmed internet rumor that will be chuckled at by the few who read gaming news sites.(Excluding game reviews, these are more widely read.)--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 22:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it is all over the place. This is the internet after all and news like this travels like wildfire. The article from Vnunet has been linked on several forums I visit.[[User:Yasgur|Yasgur]] 03:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I also want to request that this discussion end. This page is [[WP:FORUM|not a forum]] to discuss why someone from a Sony-related IP edited [[Halo 3]]. This page is for discussing how to improve the article. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 04:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Bearing that thought in mind. I find that the little section concerning Sony 'vandalizing Wikipedia's article to not show neutrality in the subject in mind. <blockquote>For As of September 04, 2007 an internet technology and news site reported that a wikipedia user posted under the graphics section that Halo 3 would have graphics only marginally better than Halo 2. This news site determined that the user had posted from the Liverpool office of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE).[46] Undoubtedly, this was an attempt to downplay the upcoming release of the hotly anticipated title.
</blockquote>

I feel that last sentence or perhaps the whole article should be re-evaluated to seem more neutral then a POV of some halo fan's. Don't get me wrong I am a great fan of Halo but I don't think it seems proper to bash sony on Wikipedia and claim at the end Halo is Awesome. This is what I am getting when I read this article. [[User:24.226.195.58|24.226.195.58]] 13:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:A little off-topic but saying its a "hotly anticipated title" and stating that its rightfully hotly aniticipated are two different things. I don't think anyone would argue that it is very highly anticipated.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
::The preorder numbers (projected minimum $172M on first day), the Madame Tussounds wax figure, the hype, the commercials, etc - it's hotly anticipated. [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 04:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Considering that the PS3 is a failure, Sony seems to be getting increasingly desperate. What a shame. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.110.26.86|24.110.26.86]] ([[User talk:24.110.26.86|talk]]) 03:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 

yes, i agree. sony is scared witless of halo 3, b/c they know that it will knock them out when it comes out[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 11:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

== Different Editions Omission ==

There missing a difference between the editions. Both the Limited and the Legendary editions come with an "HD Calibration Disk". This was briefly noted on the bungie website. This is a Halo 3 themed disk that will help to Calibrate your HDTV to get the best picture.
[[User:69.158.17.235|69.158.17.235]] 01:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)Jason M - TO

:I could be wrong, but I beleive it is available to everyone with an Xbox Live Silver or Gold membership now. Do some research into it if you want, I'm sure the Bungie forum will be glad to help once they stop posting "phail". Sorry for the rant, but that forum is one of the most immature I've ever been in.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::As far as I know, that tool is on the "Interactive Xbox 360 Disc." So is with the limited and legendary versions. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Well regardless as to whether its on xbox live, it should be mentioned if it also comes on the disc. Since only like 50% (i think it was) of xbox owners are on live, it would be good info for them. Also, 4chans boards are by far and away more immature than Bungies.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== addition to weapons section ==

it should be noted under the weapons section that the covenant needler can no longer be dual wielded due to a significant power increase.

:Okay, go ahead and make the change. You don't need permission to add info to the entry, that's your right. If formatting of grammar is not right, someone will make the change for you until you learn.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::Well, by all means make the edit. But, we don't want to be "game guidey" describing all the changes to every single weapon in the game. The overall statement "with minor power and cosmetic changes" is fine I believe. The needler is still the needler and just has different power. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Why are the graphics not much better? ==
The graphics in this game are disappointing. They have a good replay/cutscene engine but the real gameplay engine looks only slightly better than Halo2.

Halo3
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/734/734817/img_4818511.html

Halo2
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/804/804393/img_4486727.html

Yes it is a fair comparison even if its the PC version of Halo2 because both are running in high resolution. Seems bungie went lazy on this one and didn't bother to spend the development time to improve the engine to the best of the systems abilities. Like Halo and Halo2, Halo3 is sure to have frame rate issues and even worse when in split screen.
[[User:Vietone|Vietone]] 13:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

have either of u guys seen the halo 3 single player thing? i mean, the graphics blew me away. if u say its not better than halo 2, i dont thuink u payed attantion. the betes werent that great, but there u go: BETA [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:(facepalm) Haven't you noticed by now that the graphics in multiplayer are not going to be as good as the ones in singleplayer? That's because they matter less in multiplayer than they do in singleplayer, which is where the real shininess is going to go. This: [/media/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Halo_3_online_co-op.jpg] is a far better example of Halo 3's graphics, and that itself may or may not be the final build. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] ([[User talk:Peptuck|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peptuck|contribs]]) 15:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

::If you look carefully, there are vast improvements. Halo 2 had visible polygons, whereas Halo 3's polygons are tiny. There weren't really framerate issues in Halo 1 or 2 unless you made a lot of blood on the ground. Though NTSC may differ from PAL-60 in this case. Still, I don't think there's anything bad about the graphics, sure Halo was never a game with amazing graphics but they aren't bad. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 08:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:Well, the action does (supposedly) take place in much larger areas. And there is more going on and more enemies on screen at once. So theres two reasons. Plus, i believe, a lot of the beauty of the game is in its subtlety. the bloom isn't overdone, the lighting it soft were it needs to be, things that are supposed to be natural look natural. textures convery the surface of an object without getting in your face. Oh, and PCs have FAR more RAM than the 360. So even in H2V, they can have higher res textures in some cases. :Plus, who said there would be framerate issues? All accounts so far point to a very stable framerate in Halo 3. While H1 and H2 had some framerate issues, i've seen games with far worse issues in that regard. Oh, and Halo 3 had a much longer "polish" period at the end of development than halo 2, and certainly longer than H1. All signs seem good.
:Besides, the talk page is for the article, until we have some proper commentary (ie reviews) about how much the graphics suck or not, theres no reason to talk about it. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I agree, this is an article talk page and we should be discussing the article, not the game. I got a bit sidetracked. Please let's keep it on-topic from now. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::To keep on topic about the article, we should really remove that pic of High Ground or at least mention that the screenshot is from the Beta and NOT the final build and thus not representative of the actual in-game graphics. Bungie has said many times that many graphical settings were turned down or off for the beta. For instance, if someone wishes to dig through their site, they said that there was absolutely not Anti-aliasing in the Beta, and turning that on will help greatly. The purpose of the Beta was to test the gameplay and the online functions, not the graphics engine.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

==Xbox 360 Achievements==
Hi, I wanted to add a link to a list of the Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3 in the External Links section on the Halo 3 page, but the page is protected. I was going to add this link: *[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]. Can someone help me with this? --[[User:UaneReade|UaneReade]] 14:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:Wikipedia generally frowns on Lists and info that is considered [[fancruft]] or game-guide like material instead of the type of stuff you'd find in an encyclopedia.(I always forget to sign)[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 14:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Picture ==

For the 2 beta pictures, can you at least mention it's from the beta, you did good on the other picture mentiong it's a work in progress, you might as well mention that the beta pics are from the beta, now seeing that was like 6 months ago. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.38.203.115|72.38.203.115]] ([[User talk:72.38.203.115|talk]]) 02:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 
:It doesn't really matter, does it?--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 02:33, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

yes, it does. since it is a beta or work-in-progress still, it needs to ber known that it is not the final product[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 11:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:If you feel so strongly about it, you can add it in yourself--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 19:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

== Old Maps ==
Will their be any multiplayer maps from Halo 1 or Halo 2 that will be in Halo 3 other than Last Resort (Zanzibar)? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 23:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 
:The game isn't out yet, so who knows. Also, the talk page is to discuss the article, not the game itself--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 01:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::Agreed with above. If you can phrase it in a way that is more encyclopedic and not so game-forum-esque, it could be added. Oh and to answer your question, Lockout has also been remade with a jungle theme and can be seen in the videos from PAX.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 14:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== RV please ==

I would rv the current verison myself but I'm an IP. I can't belvie no one noticed this.--[[User:71.170.106.104|71.170.106.104]] 02:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== in EGM's latest issue, they gave Halo's AI the "best AI" on the showroom floor ==

[[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 02:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
this topic was already here[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Auctions ==

idk if anyone noticed this, but there's a lot of confusion abt these 2 ebay auctions, u can check the halo.bungie.org site to find out the details, but i'm surprisd no1 posted about it yet.after checking it out, wat do u ppl think, real or not?[[http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=832934]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Discopete117|Discopete117]] ([[User talk:Discopete117|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Discopete117|contribs]]) 21:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Halo 3 is selling on Ebay, add this in ==

Halo 3 is selling on Ebay, add this in [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 23:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

i already did, look at auctions, i'v also got a link where people discuss it so just delete it[[User:Discopete117|Discopete117]] 00:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

No you didin't. THe word "ebay" or "auction" is not mentioned once. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 02:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:The part about this eBay auction is poorly formatted and place haphazardly in the middle of the article, if it is to stay, it needs to be fixed. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

::This is the exact text that was in the article. I am removing the text from the article temporarily until it can be cleaned up and a better location found for it within the text of the article:

"- ===Ebay Leek and kids getting banned for life===
- - - - - - THe game is selling on Ebay right now, and kids are also getting banned for life by playin halo 3 right now
- - - - -
- - - - - Source: http://news.filefront.com/halo-3-available-on-ebay/
- - - - -
- - - - - source: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=halo+3+ban"

[[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Look if you guys don't like it, then fix it yourself. But you can't remove it yourself and not fix it. So either fix it yourself, or don't mess with it [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 03:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==3RR==
Refering to the [[WP:3RR|three revert rule]], please use this discussion to determine the fate of the eBay leak portion of the article, rather than remove and re-add the content repeatedly. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Well, it can be reworded, as you said above--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 03:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
So? If you don't like it, then fix it. Don't remove it. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::So... I removed it, per [[WP:NOT#NEWS]]. And it will continue to be removed, this is not a news service nor is a forum to announce cruft like this. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Spigot your logic is flawed, if something is leeked onto the internet it does go on wikipedia. Try again [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::Only if said leak can be classified as a [[WP:RS|reliable source]].--[[User:Yeti Hunter|Yeti Hunter]] 04:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I did provide a source. Hell, just go to google news and type "halo 3 ebay" and you'll get results. Like I said, don't even attempt to think to remove this from the page, if you have trouble with the spelling and what not then fix it, don't just blatantly remove it though. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Thanks for not writing [[WP:Civil|civily]]. Please READ the wikilinks we have provided and you will see why it will not be included until it is confirmed and reported by a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

: Might be notable to note that 1) this does not deserve to be before all other sections of the article; 2) unless you provide a '''specific''' credible source, such information should not be added to Wikipedia; and 3) as according to the comment posted in the article, please '''do not''' repeatedly insert your snippet over and over again, until this is issue is resolved on the talk page. [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay ==

Full retail PAL version of the game leaked.

Right here, IGN.COM - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

If you argue with the notablitiy of IGN.com you are tremendiously un-informed [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

: As Spigot has kindly noted, this still possibly falls under [[WP:NOT#NEWS]], and thus would be unfit to add to this article; that notwithstanding, there is again '''no reason''' as to why something as questionable as this should be at the FOREFRONT OF THE ENTIRE ARTICLE. [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:34, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Styrik, like I said. If something gets leaked onto the internet then it does get added on to wikipedia. Just check any album that has been leaked on the internet. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

:Most albums/games with leaks are confirmed to be leaked. This hasn't even been confirmed yet and possibly a hoax. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:39, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

LMFAO buddy you think this is a hoax? It was posted on IGN.COM. Again dude, just GOOGLE "halo 3 beta". If you're too lazy/paranoid then that's your fault. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:IGN gets hoaxes, too. Try to stay civil, why don't you--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 04:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Like I said, it's all around the internet, this halo 3 thing. NOT just IGN. And no, they only report things that are confirmed. If you saw earlier it WAS on Ebay.

Honestly, after this is all said and done I'll lmao at all you guys for not believing me, and you guys will look pathetic. lmfao [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

:Yes, that's exactly what it is. We don't believe you. Have you not read one single wikilink we provided? There's no point in arguing or trying to explain to you anymore. We'll just have to wait for a block for the death threats, vandalism, and general incivility from you. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== People, do not git rid of the "[citation needed]s". ==

SpigotMap will agree that any info on here that is not sourced needs to have a citation needed tag, if you get rid of it then provide a source that does back up this claime. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:57:39Z

Duff man2007:

<noinclude>{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}</noinclude>
{{future game}}
{{Infobox CVG
|title = Halo 3
|image = [[Image:Halo 3 final boxshot.JPG|256px]]
|developer = [[Bungie Studios]]
|publisher = [[Microsoft Game Studios]]
|designer =
|series = ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]''
|engine = Halo Engine ([[Proprietary]])
|picture format = [[720p]] ([[HDTV]]) 
|version =
|released = {{vgrelease|North America|NA|[[September 25]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12467 |title = Finish the Fight on September 25, 2007 |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie Software |quote = On September 25, 2007, players will be able to finish the fight they started in Halo: Combat Evolved and continued in Halo 2. Halo 3 will release in Europe on September 26, 2007}}</ref> 
{{vgrelease|Europe|EU|[[September 26]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate /> 
{{vgrelease|Japan|JP|[[September 27]] [[2007]]}}<ref name="japrelease">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/games/h/halo3/ |title = Halo 3 Page Xbox Japan |accessdate = 2007-06-15 |author = Microsoft Games Studio |authorlink = Microsoft Game Studios |year = 2007 |format = HTML |publisher = Xbox.com/ja-JP/ |language = Japanese |quote = 発売日: 2007/09/27 }}</ref>
|genre = [[First-person shooter]]
|modes = [[Single player]], [[Co-op]], [[Co-op|Online co-op]], [[Multiplayer]], and [[Online multiplayer]] [[Halo 3#Forge|Forge]] [[Halo 3#Meta-game|Meta-game]]
|ratings = [[Entertainment Software Rating Board|ESRB]]: M [[British Board of Film Classification|BBFC]]: 15<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/1FB3194D3E47659580257341004F4642?OpenDocument|title=Halo 3 BBFC Rating Page|accessdate=2007-08-24}} </ref> 
[[Computer Entertainment Rating Organization|CERO]]: D [[Office of Film and Literature Classification (Australia)|OFLC]]: M<ref>{{web cite|url=http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=46&p=156&sTitle=Halo+3&sTitleExact=1&sMediaGames=1&sDateFromM=1&sDateFromY=2003&sDateToM=10&sDateToY=2007&record=221739|title=HALO 3 Game (Multi Platform)|publisher=The Classification Board and Classification Review Board|accessdate=2007-07-18}}</ref>
|platforms = [[Xbox 360]]
|media = [[DVD-DL]]
|requirements =
|input = [[Gamepad#Xbox 360|Xbox 360 Controller]]
|footnotes =
}}
'''''Halo 3''''', the final [[video game]] in the ''Halo'' trilogy, is an upcoming [[first-person shooter]] by [[Bungie Studios]] for the [[Xbox 360]]. An official announcement on the developer's website states that ''Halo 3'' will end the current [[story arc]] of the [[Halo (series)|''Halo'' trilogy]].<ref name="announcement">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Halo3Announcement |title = Halo 3 Announced |accessdate = 2007-08-06 |author = Achronos |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Bungie |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref> A public [[beta test]] of the multiplayer component of the game occurred between [[May 16]], [[2007]] and [[June 10]], [[2007]].<ref name=multiplayermadness>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=MPBetaAndVidocRelease |title = Inside Bungie: Multiplayer Madness! |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta will go live on May 16th at 12:00 AM PDT and run through June 6th at 11:59 PM PDT}}</ref> The final version of the game is due to be released on [[September 25]], [[2007]]<ref name=releasedate /> in the [[United States]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[Singapore]], [[September 26]], [[2007]] in [[Europe]] and [[September 27]], [[2007]] in [[Japan]]. On [[August 29]], [[2007]], Bungie officially stated that ''Halo 3'' has gone [[Software release life cycle#Gold or general availability release|gold]].<ref name=gold>{{cite web |url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12737 |title=Halo's Gone Gold! |accessdate=2007-08-29 |author=Luke Smith (lukems) |date=2007-08-29 |format=HTML |work=Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref>



==Halo 3 aussie leek==
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

==Gameplay==
The gameplay of ''Halo 3'' largely builds upon the previous successful renditions of the franchise. It is a [[first-person shooter]] that, once again, follows the character [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] and his struggle against the [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] and the [[Flood (Halo)|Flood]]. The game's action takes place largely on foot, but there are [[vehicles]] available for the player to use at certain points in the game. As with the other ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]'' titles, the [[multiplayer]] portion of the game is one of the game's most celebrated features, and is one of the reasons for the series' enormous success.

The balance of weapons and objects in the game has been adjusted to better adhere to what Multiplayer Designer Lars Bakken describes as the "Golden Three Things of ''Halo''". These are "weapons, grenades, and mêlée"; all three of which are simultaneously available to a player at all times while on foot (unless they are dual wielding or using one of the new class of support weapons).

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are famously limited to only two weapons at any one time in ''Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overpowered for every type of situation the player might encounter.

The new default controller layout will see the Right Bumper become the "action" button (pick up, reload, board vehicles, activate switches, etc), with the '''X''' button being used for deployment of equipment<ref name="betaquestions">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/04/10/halo-3-video-questions-cleared-up/ |title = Halo 3 video questions cleared up |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Dustin Burg |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |work = Xbox 360 fanboy Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = Xbox360fanboy.com |quote = ..the new bubble shield, trip mine, are 2 of the X button's deployments ...}}</ref> (see ''Equipment'' below). When dual-wielding, weapons can be individually reloaded using either the left or right bumper. Other buttons are unchanged, but '''B''' (melee attack) also will be used to take a stationary gun turret off its tripod for mobile use, becoming one of the game's "support weapons" (see ''Weaponry'' below), <ref name="Kotaku 07-05-11">{{cite video | people = Frank O'connor (presenter), Richard Blakeley (Camera), Michael McWhertor (News Writer) |date = [[2007-05-11]] |title = Kotaku Beta Preview Presentation | url = http://kotaku.com/gaming/has-anyone-here-seen-predator%3F/new-video-of-halo-3-beta-map-weapons-259861.php |format = Flash video/ HTML) |medium = Presentation |publisher = Kotaku.com |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |time = 2:30}}</ref>. As with previous games however, players can still choose to change the default control layout in their game profile to a number of pre-sets. <ref name="betacontrols">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaWhatsNew |title = H3 Public Beta: Whats new? |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML/ASP |work = Guide to the Halo 3 Beta |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The default button layout is one of four available in the Beta }}</ref>

===Campaign===
The only officially broadcast campaign footage released has been at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2006 trailer|E3 2006]] {{fact|date=September}}, the [[Marketing for Halo 3#"Et tu, Brute?" video documentary|"Et Tu, Brute?"]] {{fact|date=September}} Vidoc and again at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|E3 2007]] {{fact|date=September}} . There are several distinct types of environments that players will have to traverse in ''Halo 3''; lush jungles, built up towns and sparse desert environments have all been seen. {{fact|date=September}}

Other campaign footage has been shown to people at other gaming conventions such as [[Games Convention|Leipzig]] and this is Tsavo Highway, the third level in the game. {{fact|date=September}}

[[AI]] behavior of both enemies and allies in the campaign will be greatly enhanced in ''Halo 3''. Marines' driving and gunning skills on the Warthog, Grunt flanking maneuvers in battle, and Brute "[[Herd behavior|pack mentality]]" have all been mentioned by Bungie as examples of using the power of the Xbox 360 for more than making the game look better. Enemy AI will also have new non-combat behaviors, rather than just sitting around waiting for players to kill them, to make them feel more "alive" and realistic.

====Cooperative play====
[[Image:Halo 3 online co-op.jpg|left|thumb|225px|Master Chief alongside the Arbiter, N’tho ‘Sraom and Usze ‘Taham.]]
''Halo 3'' features up to four player [[cooperative gameplay]] over [[Xbox LIVE]] or [[System Link]] and two player cooperative split-screen.<ref name="soundofsack" /> Although previous games also supported split-screen co-op, system link and XBL variants of this game mode is a first for the series. Players playing split-screen can also join other players over system link and Xbox LIVE for a total of up to four players.

For plot reasons, instead of having each player be an identical [[SPARTAN-II Project|Spartan]] like in previous ''Halo'' games, the first player will play as [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]], the second player the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] and the other two players newly created Elites; [[N’tho ‘Sraom]] and [[Usze ‘Taham]] each with their own backstories. Each player has identical abilities although the starting weapon will be different depending on whether the player is Master Chief or an Elite.<ref name="soundofsack">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack |title = The Tru7h About Co-Op in Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-08-02 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-07-31]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> Master Chief will have the Battle Rifle, while the Elites will be equipped with Carbines depending on which mission they are on.

====Meta-game====
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The ultimate task will be to beat every mission in Legendary difficulty with all skulls turned on in a certain time limit with style... To get the highest possible score."|source=—Brian Jarrard, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}
''Halo 3'' features a "campaign meta-game" in which a player is awarded a numerical score based on their performance while completing a level in the campaign. Points mostly come from defeating enemies, with extra points being awarded for stylish moves such as performing "headshots", or progressing through a level quickly. Finding and activating Skulls, a continuation of [[Halo 2]]'s gameplay-altering [[Easter egg (virtual)|easter eggs]], allows a player to obtain even higher scores in the meta-game. As it records individual performance for each player, the meta-game also introduces a competitive aspect to co-op play. If a player themselves die, or kill a co-op teammate however, they will lose points.<ref name="edge179" /> Campaign play also unlocks even more armor permutations for use in multiplayer.<ref name="screenshotsgalore">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12616 |title = Way Beyond the Beta: Screenshots Galore |accessdate = 2007-07-04 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-03]] |format = HTML /ASPX |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The C.Q.B. (Close Quarters Battle) and E.V.A. (Extra Vehicular Activity) variants of Spartans are two of the numerous permutations players will be able to unlock in Halo 3}}</ref>

[[Gamerscore]] is awarded for successfully getting over a certain score in each level,<ref name="Achievements" /> and medals are awarded for specific accomplishments.

===Multiplayer===
[[Image:High Ground Gate.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Halo 3'' multiplayer map High Ground]]
Up to four people can participate in multiplayer match on a single [[Xbox 360]] in ''Halo 3'' via a [[Split screen (computer graphics)|split screen]] layout. Up to sixteen may participate in a single match over a [[LAN]] or [[Xbox Live]]. A combination of some or all of these methods may be combined for a match with up to sixteen players.

Like most multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, ''Halo 3'' will use a customized version of [[TrueSkill]] ranking system for its online matchmaking facilities. ''Halo 3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s matchmaking system will be based on two different ranks, skill and experience (Rating Points or RP). Skill will simply be the TrueSkill rank of the player in a given playlist, and experience (RP) is a linear measure of experience (1 point for each win in the online playlists). Overlaid by a Military rank; so, a player with a designation of a "General" will have played for a longer time than someone who is a "recruit". This is in order to make the system more fair and to reflect the effect of experience on players' profiles.<ref name="1up-3155479"> {{cite web |url = http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155479 |title = The Five Best Things About Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author= Luke Smith |date = [[2006-11-24]] |format = HTML |work = 1up Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = 1up.com }}</ref> The RP system also has a mechanism built in to dissuade players from excessive quitting from matches, which became a problem for some players in Halo 2. When players quit from a match before it has finished, they will lose 2 RP. So players that regularly quit games, leaving their teammates stranded, may eventually end up having ''negative'' RP.

The UI (user interface) has been redesigned from ''Halo 2'', making it easier to generate a custom game in ''Halo 3'' multiplayer, which can now be saved and shared online with the File Sharing Features. Players will now be able to "advertise" their custom games via [[Xbox Live]] Public; making it easier to find a multiplayer match to a player's taste without having to link up with friends.<ref name="1up-3155479" /> To help players have an enjoyable time online, a new feature dubbed the "[[asshole|A-hole]] button" allows players to mute annoying players in the game quickly and easily from the in-game scoreboard view.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6165796.html |title=Halo 3 gets shutup button |accessdate=2007-04-28}}</ref> People sifting through the code, as well as those who used a glitch to find their way into the custom game UI, of the ''Halo 3'' Beta have found that the strength of gravity is indeed a customizable option in multiplayer games, confirming statements made by Bungie employees.<ref name="customgrav">{{cite web|url=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/503973679_660e011151.jpg|title=Custom gravity options in Halo 3 Beta menus|accessdate=2007-05-24}}</ref> In addition to existing gametype settings from previous games, new "player traits" allow players to set specific altered abilities to all players and different (if they wish) abilities to the leaders of a game, expanding the amount of gametype customization available still further.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

===Weapons===
[[Image:Copy of Missile Pod Header.jpg|right|thumb|150px|A Spartan Holding a Missle Pod]]
Most of the weapons available in previous installments of the series return with minor cosmetic and power alterations; including the Battle Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Covenant Plasma Rifle, Brute Shot and the Covenant Needler. The now-iconic Assault Rifle which appeared in the original ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]]'' as the MA5B, but was absent from ''[[Halo 2]]'' is returning for ''Halo 3'' retooled into the MA5C. Developer [[Bungie]] hopes it will fill the role as the "ultimate spawn weapon", allowing players to hold their own in a fight straight away (unlike the SMG in ''Halo 2'') but not be so powerful as to overshadow all of the other weapons (like the M6D in ''Halo''). In hopes of fulfilling this, it has a smaller magazine and slower rate of fire than its previous iteration but a longer range, greater accuracy, and more fire power.

''Halo 3'' introduces a new-to-the-series class called "support weapons". These are a group of exceptionally large, powerful and cumbersome two-handed weapons that, when carried, change the view to a third-person perspective and cause the player to move more slowly. The two weapons available in this class during the Public Beta were the Machine Gun Turret and Missile Pod, although a [[Flamethrower]] also features in this class as well as a new covenant plasma turret.<ref name="ignburning">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html |title = Burn, Baby! Burn! |accessdate = 2007-08-10 |author = Hilary Goldstein |authorlink = IGN |date = [[2007-08-10]] |format = HTML |work = IGN Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |pages =1–2 }}</ref>

As a visual change to the weapons, when a player is carrying a second weapon in ''Halo 3'', the secondary weapon will be stored on the character's back (for larger, two-handed weapons) or on a leg holster (for smaller, one-handed weapons). This makes it impossible to "hide" a powerful secondary weapon and surprise unsuspecting foes.

===Equipment===
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The 30 seconds of fun has become 30 seconds of fun and five of total astonishment."|source=—Jaime Griesemer, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}

A new class of usable items in ''Halo 3'' are known as ''Equipment''. These items have various effects and functions, ranging from defensive effects (Bubble Shield and Regenerator), or objects which blind or confuse the enemy (Flare<ref name="edge179" /> and Radar Jammer), to ones which can actually harm and kill (Power Drainer and Tripmine). Most of these are named by their function.

They are not designed to give one player a significant advantage, as they affect both sides equally, but as items which change the dynamic of a fight momentarily. The Bubble Shield, for example, produces a protective dome but, a person inside cannot fire out, just as a person outside cannot fire in. This creates a stalemate situation until the Bubble Shield fails, or players move through the shield onto one side of it. Equally, once the Portable Gravity Lift is dropped it can be used by both sides to gain greater height into the air, often to get over specific obstacles.

[[Image:Halo 3 Equipment.jpg|left|thumb|225px|A small selection of equipment available in Halo 3.]]

===Vehicles===
''Halo 3'', like its predecessors, will also feature a strong vehicular component. Vehicles, and their countermeasures (rockets, mines, etc.), are tightly integrated with ''Halo'' gameplay. Many of the series' vehicles are returning in the third installment. Vehicles cover a wide range of types, including light [[reconnaissance]] vehicles, large, heavily armoured [[tanks]], troop and vehicle transport craft, plus various atmospheric and spacecraft, though not all are usable by the player.

The Mongoose ATV, a small quad bike, originally designed for [[Halo 2]] but later cut out, is available as a vehicle in ''Halo 3''. A second player can ride on the back of the vehicle to provide some offensive capability. There will also be a new variant of [[Warthog]], with rear seats for troops instead of a gun, and a light human aircraft called the Hornet which is similar in function to the [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]]. They can both be seen briefly in the [[E3 2007]] video. The Hornet will not feature in Matchmaking because it is "too overpowered" and thus will only be accessible in custom games, Campaign, or the Forge gametype.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] }}</ref>

There are also two entirely new [[The Covenant (Halo)#Brute|Brute]] vehicles, dubbed the "Brute Chopper" and "Brute Prowler" to expand the "Brute sandbox". Unlike other vehicles attributed to The Covenant in the game, that entirely hover or fly above the ground, the Chopper has a single large and heavy wheel on the front with a hovering driver seat behind. <ref name="chopper">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=chopperfiction |title = The Brute Chopper |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-06]] |format = HTML /ASP |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> It has been referred to as a "vehicle smasher," able to destroy other vehicles with a single hit. Insofar it has only been seen in the [[E3 2007]] [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|Trailer]]. The Brute Prowler however, is closer in function to a Brute version of the Warthog.<ref name="egmseptember" /> It has a plasma turret in front, a driver in back, and two side seats, similar to the Covenant [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Spectre|Spectre]] in [[Halo 2]].

The [[The Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]] aircraft and [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Wraith|Wraith]] tank have been altered in terms of gameplay. The Banshee now has the ability to fire its Fuel Rod Gun in multiplayer matches, an ability which was formerly restricted to Campaign and the multiplayer of [[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]] for [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] and [[Macintosh|Mac]]. But as a trade-off it can no longer point directly down. The Wraith can now carry two people instead of one. One drives the vehicle and fires the main cannon, while the other fires the smaller plasma turret. The plasma turret was formerly exclusive to AI in the ''Halo 2'' campaign.

The largest drivable vehicle in the game is a UNSC transport vehicle named "The Elephant".<ref name="egmseptember" /> The vehicle is armed with an anti-aircraft gun at the front, has a Mongoose in its belly, and can transport an additional 2 Mongooses, a Warthog, and a Scorpion tank along with 12 infantry. In multiplayer the vehicle serves as a mobile base where players can respawn, and also holds both the flag and capture points for certain multiplayer objective modes. Because of its size, it only features on the largest multiplayer map: Sand Trap, and it is unknown whether it will make an appearance in campaign.

===Miscellaneous===
Fish have been seen on the level "Sierra 117" and it has been confirmed that the player can kill [[fauna]].<ref name="Halo3fishies">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813227p2.html |title = IGN interview with Frankie O'connor |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Patrick Kolan |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = IGN |publisher = IGN.com |quote = Toss a grenade on the shore in High Ground and see what kind of wildlife we have!}}</ref>

The game's 49 [[Xbox LIVE#Gamerscore|achievements]] were revealed on [[June 19]], [[2007]].<ref name="Achievements">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360achievements.org/achievements.php?gameID=274 |title = Halo 3 Achievements |accessdate = 2007-07-30 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-19]] |format = HTML |work = |publisher = Xbox360Achievements.org }}</ref>

==Features==
===Forge===
Forge is a tool that enables players to insert game objects into existing maps. Bungie has stated that this should be considered more a gametype than a tool.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] </ref> Almost all weapons, vehicles, and interactive objects (various crates and barriers) can be spawned, moved and placed into maps with Forge. In an example of its uses, one of the testers was able to place an unusually large number of exploding fusion cores in a large vehicle set to as close an instantaneous respawn as the game would allow, which caused the vehicle to charge wildly around the map.
<ref name="BWU-07-08-03">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12685 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/03/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-05 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=139 |archivedate = 2007-08-04 |quote = [...] placed a RIDICULOUS number of exploding fusion cores [...] respawn times set to as close to "instant" as Forge allows [...] }}</ref>
In games where Forge is enabled, players can switch to the editing mode at any time. While in this mode, a player appears to other players as a [[Forerunner (Halo)#Monitors|Forerunner Monitor]] and is still vulnerable to being attacked and killed. Objects can be spawned into the game in real-time and parameters such as ammo counts (for weapons) and respawn rates can be altered for each object.<ref name="edge179" /> The number of objects that can exist in a map at any one time is limited, however, as each object created takes up a set amount of points from the particular map's limit.<ref name="edge179" />

As well as changing alterations to spawn weapons to assist a player in real-time, altered maps can be saved and then recalled in a normal multiplayer game mode. These altered maps can also be transferred to other players using the ''File Sharing'' features. Modifications made by ''Forge'' can change the way a map plays quite drastically from its original configuration. Forge was also the name of the editing tools included in another Bungie game called Marathon.

===Saved films===
''Halo 3'' will have a feature called ''Saved Films''. This feature allows players to save a copy of the game data of a multiplayer match or campaign session to their Xbox 360's [[hard drive]], so that they may watch it later on. It has been confirmed that you can only save 100 files on a hard drive at a time.<ref name="100 gamesaves">{{cite web |url = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=135 |title = HBO |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Lukems |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = HBO |publisher = bungie.net |quote = Players will be able to save up to 100 total films (this is also referenced to in a podcast that it is all items, so 100 films, or 20 "forges" and 80 films, et cetera}}</ref> Though the public beta's implementation was very limited, its functionality is planned to be extended for the final game.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaSavedFilms |title = Saved Films and File Share |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |work = Halo 3 Beta Guide |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref>

{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="Just think about all those stories you've heard, about that game you played the other night, that awesome thing that happened – well, now you can download it and actually check it out."|source=—Tyson Green, Bungie Studios<ref>{{cite web| title=Halo 3:In-depth Bungie Q&A |url=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800901p3.html |last=Kolan |first=Patrick |publisher=IGN.com |date=[[2007-07-01]] |accessdate=2007-08-16}}</ref> }}

Players will be able to view the action from almost any angle and any player's perspective (including a free-roaming camera), as well as being able to slow down the speed and also play the recording in reverse. The Saved Films can even be edited in game to create a shorter clip of a particularly amazing or special moment.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Players can also use the tool to take still pictures from films and upload them to the [[bungie]] website.

As the Saved Films are only the game data (not an actual video), this allows the file sizes to be relatively small. A recording for a typical "long" game is in the region of only 6 [[megabyte|MB]].<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Films will also be played back at whatever resolution the [[Xbox 360]] is set to, regardless of the resolution at which the a player was using at the time of the recording. All games are recreated in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the ''Halo 3'' engine. This allows them to be shared amongst any other [[Xbox 360]] without any compatibility issues because they all run off the same code. The ''Saved Films'' feature is described as an "excellent training aid" since players can gain valuable tactical insight into the strategies of other players by viewing the saved films.<ref name="handson">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/20070511-mulitplayerbeta.htm |title = Hands-On: Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |author = Denny Atkin |date = [[2007-05-11]] |format = HTML |work = Previews on Xbox.com |publisher = Xbox.com }}</ref> Alternatively, they could have a look at other games uploaded through the fileshare.

This feature will also facilitate the creation of [[machinima]] and other game-related videos, as well as give the creators of such videos advanced tools to enhance the quality of this medium. Video game montage creators can save games to the hard drive of their Xbox 360 console for later use, so they never have to miss a camera shot, while machinima directors and cinematographers will have expanded camera options, instead of having to resort to using a first-person, gameplay perspective.

=== File share ===
File Sharing in ''Halo 3'' is an online storage and sharing service for a range of files that are created in the game, and is an extension of the game's online capabilities. Files such as Saved Films, screenshots, custom gametypes and Forge settings can all be uploaded to the ''File Share.'' When the game launches, items stored there then appear on a players [[Bungie.net]] ''Halo 3'' profile, with the ability to comment on them and queue items to download for when the player next plays the game online.<ref name="edge179">{{cite journal |author = Edge (UK) |authorlink = Edge (magazine) |year = 2007 |month = August |title = Finish the Fight |journal = Edge |volume = September 2007 |issue = 179 |pages = 66–77 |issn = 1350-1593 |format = HTML |accessdate = 2007-08-07 |laysummary = http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2007/08/edge_179.php |laysource = Edge-online.co.uk |laydate = 2007-08-04 |quote = }} 
:*'''On Audio:''' ''"- of the 53,595 pieces of audio created by the day we visited, 39,368 were of NPC dialogue"'' 
:*'''On File Sharing:''' ''"Content in players' shared spaces will be shown on Bungie.net, with the ability to post comments and queue clips for download when players next load up the game"'' 
:*'''On Equipment:''' ''"it operates over and above normal combat, [..] that can benefit and disadvantage each side in equal measure."'' 
:*'''On Forge:''' ''"Each object has a certain cost, each map a global budget"''</ref>

Players can view and transfer these files individually to others while they are online, but can also upload them to a central, Bungie run server so friends (or rivals) can then view and download them even when the creating player is not online. During the Beta each player had 25 [[megabyte|MB]] of storage space on the File Share, which may change by the time the final game ships. Bungie announced that players will be able to purchase additional storage space and slots for 750 [[Microsoft Points]], dubbed "Bungie Pro"; all Gold subscribers get 6 file slots and 25MB of storage. Bungie Pro bumps storage up to 24 slots and 250MB. While players with Xbox Live Silver do not have access to the free file-share, they may purchase Bungie Pro to share their files. Bungie has also extended the file-share to their website; players may "flag" files for download (up to 8) on Bungie.net. The next time a user signs on to their Xbox, it will automatically download the flagged files to their hard drive. <ref name="BWU-07-08-17">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12718 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/17/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-19 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-08-17]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=141 |archivedate = 2007-08-17 }}</ref>

==Story==
===Characters===
{{main|Characters in the Halo series}}
The [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] again returns as the main protagonist, with the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] making several major appearances. The other characters below, and some others, have been revealed in promotional media.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!colspan="2"|Playable characters
|-
!Character
!Player
|-
| [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]]
| First
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Arbiter|Arbiter]]
| Second
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#N.E2.80.99tho .E2.80.98Sraom|N’tho ‘Sraom]]
| Third
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Usze .E2.80.98Taham|Usze ‘Taham]]
| Fourth
|-
!colspan="2"|Non-playable characters
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Miranda Keyes|Miranda Keyes]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Cortana]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Sergeant Major A.J. Johnson|A.J. Johnson]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Terrence Hood|Lord Hood]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#The High Prophets|Prophet of Truth]]
|-
|}

===Plot===
The game will not begin right where ''Halo 2'' left off. Instead, the comic mini-series, ''[[Halo: Uprising]]'', will bridge the story gap between the ending of ''Halo 2'', and the beginning of ''Halo 3''.<ref name="H_uprising">{{cite web |url = http://www.halo3.com/html/Halo_Uprising.html |title = Halo: Uprising On Halo3.com |accessdate = 2007-06-22 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-14]] |format = HTML |publisher = Halo3.com |quote = ...the miniseries will bridge the gap between ''Halo 2'' and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated Halo 3 video game... }}</ref> When the game begins, [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] is back on a thoroughly conquered and [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] controlled Earth. Covenant ships are hovering over an excavation site a few miles from the ruins of [[Halo universe#UNSC Planets and Locations|New Mombasa]] and have uncovered a large artifact in this site, and [[Cortana]] is still the prisoner of [[Gravemind]]. The [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]], along with the some [[Covenant Elite|Elites]] have split from the Covenant during the civil war at the end of ''[[Halo 2]]''; it has been hinted that the [[Covenant (Halo)#Grunts|Grunts]] and the [[Covenant (Halo)#Hunters|Hunters]] have joined with the Elites, but recent promotional media show that at least some of the Grunts have sided with the Brutes. The [[Xbox LIVE#Gamer score|Achievements]] show the story mode will be divided into nine main levels, which gives some information about the game's length and an indistinct view of the story arc. Recent promotional items have had a strong memorial feeling to them, hinting at the demise of Master Chief, though strictly through speculative [[circumstantial evidence]].<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/08/03/the-death-of-master-chief-in-halo-3/| authorlink = Falcon, Jonah| title= The Death of Master Chief in Halo 3?| date = [[2007-08-03]]| publisher = [[2old2play.com]]}}</ref>

==Technology==
===Graphics===
[[Image:Halo 3 singleplayer.jpg|thumb|250px|Work-in-progress ''Halo 3'' screenshot of campaign mode originally captured for use in ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''.]]
''Halo 3'' utilizes a proprietary, in-house [[Game engine|graphics engine]], often referred to as the "''Halo 3'' Engine".<ref name="igntrailer">{{cite web |url = http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/706/706251p1.html |title = E3 2k6: Halo 3 Trailer Impressions |accessdate = 2007-06-25 |author = Kathleen Sanders |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = IGN E3 2006 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |quote = ...rendered in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the current version of the Halo 3 engine.}}</ref> This engine builds upon the technologies of the ''Halo 2'' Engine (and previously the ''Halo'' Engine) and is re-optimized for the architecture of the Xbox 360.

As detailed on the [[Bungie Studios]] website, it will employ advanced graphics technologies such as [[High dynamic range rendering|High Dynamic Range]], global lighting, real-time reflections and [[depth of field]] effects within cutscenes.<ref>{{cite web | title =Bungie | url =http://www.bungie.net | accessdate =2007-06-29 }}</ref> Certain surfaces, including the Master Chief's visor (when visible) and the armor of a Ghost, will have real-time reflections (These were, however, not present within the Beta.). Most of the dynamic objects in the game will cast real-time shadows on themselves and the environment around them, including the game's plant life. ''Halo 3'' will use [[Normal mapping|normal]], [[Bump mapping|bump]], and [[parallax mapping]] to give surfaces more detail without dramatically increasing the number of polygons.

Bungie has also stated that the [[draw distance]] of the game will be in excess of {{mi to km|10}}. Sophisticated new atmospheric models are used in the game to replace the traditional [[skybox (video games)|skybox]],<ref>{{cite video | people = alextotherescue | year = 2007 | date = May 25 | title = Halo 3: Sky Testing Part 2 | url = http://youtube.com/watch?v=aFnbhQU0lcY | format = flash | publisher = Clan Hat Trick | accessdate = 2007-05-27}}</ref> allowing several layers of cloud and atmospheric cover, and even a pseudo "space" beyond that.

[[Water]] effects are also dramatically improved, as water can now reflect and refract images simultaneously. As well as being able to simulate effects such as waterfalls, water will visually flow around objects in its path and splash when players, vehicles, or other objects travel through it.

===Physics===
''Halo 3'', like ''[[Halo 2]]'', uses a version of the [[Havok (software)|Havok]] physics engine for much of its physics calculations<ref name="cid12545">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12545 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 06/15/07 |accessdate = 2007-06-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = ..and this isn’t a Havok physics issue, this is a bug with the Halo melee physics...}}</ref> <ref name="havokgames">{{cite web |url = http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/ |title = Havok - Upcoming Releases |accessdate = 2007-07-13 |author = Havok Inc |date = |format = HTML |publisher = Havok.com |quote = The following game titles on current and next-generation Xbox 360 and Playstation®3 platforms will be released utilizing Havok products [...] Halo 3}}</ref> (although parts of the physics, like melee, are done with custom code on top of the [[Game engine#Middleware|middleware]]).

A wide variety of objects are affected by physical interactions in ''Halo 3''. Crates, canisters, objective objects, dropped weapons, characters, bodies, vehicles, and some parts of the world geometry all interact with each other and the world around them in believable physical ways. Trajectories of thrown objects are also affected by the gravity lifts in the game (including the "Mancannon").

Some of the foliage in the game is physically reactive; it not only moves in the simulated wind, but actually reacts to the player's (or other creatures) presence and bullet fire, as well as explosions. Some flora in the game will also be destroyed after receiving enough damage.

===Audio===
As with all titles on the [[Xbox 360]], ''Halo 3'' will fully support [[Surround sound#5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)|5.1 surround sound]] audio. In the game, there will be over 50,000 pieces of audio, with nearly 40,000 of those being NPC dialogue.<ref name="edge179" /> This is many more than in either of the preceding ''Halo'' titles; ''[[Halo 2]]'' had over 15,000 pieces of dialogue. The AI controlling this dialogue is designed to ensure the exchanges flow naturally and convincingly.

Separate recordings have been made for nearby and distant gunfire to make for a more believable sound experience. Distant gunfire sounds, which may first seem like prerecorded ambient sound, may often be the result of an actual firefight happening somewhere in the game. [[Marty O'Donnell]] is again composing the original score. Some pieces of the game's music are produced with a much larger real orchestra than anything in the prior two games. For example, the music for the announcement trailer was recorded with a 60-piece orchestra and a 24-piece [[choir]].<ref name="announcement" /> Voice actors returning to reprise their roles in ''Halo 3'' include: [[Jen Taylor]] as Cortana and [[Steve Downes]] as the voice of Master Chief. Actress [[Julie Benz]], however, is not voicing Miranda Keyes for ''Halo 3''.<ref name="mirandakeyes">{{cite web |url = http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7B586AE81D-35CC-4DE1-AAD8-920B33FDDDFC%7D |title = Dexter's No. 1 Gal — Julie Benz |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author = Matt Webb Mitovich |date = [[2006-12-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = TVGuide.com |quote = Benz: You know what? I am actually not a part of Halo 3. }}</ref>

==Versions==
[[Image:Halo 3 front-1-.jpg|175px|thumb|''Halo 3 Collector's Edition'' cover.]]
[[Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg|175px|thumb||left|''Halo 3 Legendary Edition'' box and helmet.]]

There will be three different versions of ''Halo 3'' for retail sale: the Standard Edition, which contains the game disc and a manual; the Collector's Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive Xbox 360 bonus disc with several featurettes, and Beastiarum, which is a "hard cover, bound collection of information and art covering the species, cultures and civilizations of ''Halo 3''." according to Bungie; and the Legendary Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive bonus disc, Beastiarum, Legendary DVD containing special content exclusive to the Legendary Edition, and a scale replica of the Master Chief's Helmet as a case for the three discs.<ref name="versions">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531 |title = Three Versions of Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-06-08 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-08]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=130 |archivedate = 2007-06-09}}</ref>

{|class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto;"
!valign="right"| Features
!Standard
!Collector's
!Legendary
|-
|Price ([[United States dollar|USD]])
|$59.99
|$69.99
|$129.99
|-
|Price ([[British Pound Sterling|GBP]])
|£39.99
|£44.99
|£69.99
|-
|Price ([[Singapore Dollar|SGD]])
|$69.90
|$79.90
|N.A.
|-
|Game Disc & Manual
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Interactive Xbox 360 Disc
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Beastiarum
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (book)
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (DVD)
|-
|Legendary DVD
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Master Chief Helmet Replica
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|}

==Marketing==
[[Image:GAME FUEL version of Mt. Dew.jpg|thumb|100px|Mountain Dew Game Fuel.]]
{{main|Marketing for Halo 3}}
Various marketing techniques have been employed in promoting the release of ''Halo 3''. This has included various trailers of the game; real-time [[cinematic]]s, recorded [[gameplay]] sequences, pre-rendered [[Computer-generated imagery|CGI]] and even [[live action]] film. Throughout the course of development several "developer documentaries" were released, which explain the processes behind creating parts of the game. A large scale multiplayer Beta test was played on Xbox Live with many members of the public being able to take part and experience the game for themselves. Beginning in June 2007, [[Iris (game)|''Iris'']], an [[alternate reality game]], began on the internet, designed to create hype for the game while involving players in slowing revealing some background information for the game.

In addition to high profile events, Bungie often talked about the game in its Weekly Update, occasionally releasing media of the game on their site. Numerous interviews with Bungie staff have been conducted by many gaming press establishments, covering a vast range of subjects. Magazines and journals also occasionally ran stories revealing new information. [[Pepsi-Cola]] have announced a new line of soft drink, a variant of [[Mountain Dew]] named [[Marketing for Halo 3#Mountain Dew Game Fuel|Game Fuel]]. The packaging reflects ''Halo 3'', sporting images of [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/809/809612p1.html |title=Halo 3 Box Arrives at IGN Offices |accessdate=2007-08-22 |publisher=IGN }}</ref> As ''Halo 3'' draws nearer to completion and release the marketing drive is set to increase. Much of the advertising to date has focused on appealing to the general public, rather than just hardcore fans of the game. Microsoft announced on [[August 9]], [[2007]], that [[pre-order]]s for ''Halo 3'' had exceeded one million in North America.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20196977/| title=‘Halo 3’ breaks pre-order record | publisher=msnbc.com |date=[[2007-08-09]] | accessdate=2007-08-19}}</ref> However, has not yet equalled ''Halo 2''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s record-setting 1.5 million pre-orders.<ref>{{cite news | title=Halo 3 Passes 1M Pre-Orders|publisher=[[1UP.com]]|date=[[2007-08-09]]|first=Mark |last=Whiting|accessdate=2007-08-14 |url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161856}}</ref> Some [[7-Eleven]] stores have recently begun advertising ''Halo 3'' and will be selling copies of the game.<ref>{{cite web| url=http://www.xbox360rally.com/reserve-halo-3-at-7-11-today/ |title=Reserve Halo 3 at 7-11 TODAY! |accessdate=2007-08-22 |date=[[2007-08-06]] |publisher=Xbox 360 Rally}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Iris (game)|''Iris'' (game)]]
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*[[Halo universe]]
*[[Bungie Studios]]
*[[Microsoft Game Studios]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.halo3.com Official site]
*[http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Halo3/default.aspx Official ''Halo 3'' site at Bungie.net]
*[http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/ ''Halo 3'' at Xbox.com]
*[http://www.halo3countdown.com ''Halo 3'' Countdown]
*[[Wikia:Halo:Halo 3|''Halo 3'' article at Halopedia]]
*[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]

{{Halo series}}
{{Bungie Studios}}

[[Category:2007 video games]]
[[Category:Video game sequels]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360-only games]]
[[Category:Halo games]]
[[Category:Cooperative video games]]

[[es:Halo 3]]
[[fr:Halo 3]]
[[it:Halo 3]]
[[nl:Halo 3]]
[[ja:Halo 3]]
[[no:Halo 3]]
[[pl:Halo 3]]
[[fi:Halo 3]]
[[sv:Halo 3]]

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

2007-09-12T04:56:33Z

Duff man2007: /* User:Duff man2007 */

{{Purge|''Purge the cache to refresh this page''}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|maxarchivesize = 250K
|counter = 296
|algo = old(24h)
|key = 4636e7fd80174f8cb324fd91d06d906d
|archive = Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive%(counter)d
}}
{{Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentsHeader}}
[[Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed]]
__NEWSECTIONLINK__
__TOC__







== User [[user:Democrat4|Democrat4]] paid to create articles in wikipedia for customers: A new MyWikiBiz? ==

There is an ebay user with multiple listings not unlike MyWikiBiz, offering to make articles for a fee [http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160153423329&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr2_PcY_BIN_IT&refitem=160146092291&itemcount=2&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&usedrule2=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget] . The user, [http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/diremine Diremine (ebay account)] also [[user:Diremine|Had a wikipedia account that was indefinitely blocked]], now has another sockpuppet, [[user:Democrat4]].

The evidence, showing little need for checkuser other than to make sure he or she has no other sockpuppets:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Diremine&diff=prev&oldid=149174701 Old edit on Diremine's page about a blog]

And [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Democrat4&diff=prev&oldid=149178614 Edit with same edit summary, same owner of same blog]

The user is creating articles that on the outside appear to be perfectly legitimate, but seems to be gaming the systems by carefully stylizing the articles and being careful not to break any rules, but in the end the user is just a paid editor.

An example was [[Gloria Irwin]], which was recently deleted.

A current example is [[Kevin_Eggan]], which is currently listed under AFD.

Just thought I'd bring this here to see what should be done. Note that in the previous case, [[user:MyWikiBiz|MyWikiBiz]] was blocked indefinitely (twice by Jimbo, in the end by the community). [[User:Cowman109|Cowman109]][[User talk:Cowman109|Talk]] 02:15, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:Wow. Is there any wmf policy prohibiting this that we can block him under? —'''[[user:Crazytales|Crazytales]]''' [[User talk:Crazytales|(o rly?)]] 02:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I went hunting with checkuser, and Diremine is the only sockpuppet I found. [[User:Raul654|Raul654]] 02:53, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I've indeffed per [[WP:SOCK]]. Someone please take care of the templates. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 03:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I used a screen shot of that eBay auction at a [http://www.bruceclay.com/blog/archives/2007/08/the_seo_reputat.html recent presentation] on the "SEO Reputation Problem". Somebody should complain to eBay because the seller has a very strong reputation score: 6580. - [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] [[User_talk:Jehochman|Talk]] 04:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::I'm not convinced that this is a sock of MyWikiBiz, just another entrepreneur with some similarities in the MO. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 13:55, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::MWB socks are often anagrams of the phrase "Jimbo Wales Sucks" (JossBuckle Swami, MuscleJaw SobSki, etc.). -[[User:Hit bull, win steak|Hit bull, win steak]][[User talk:Hit bull, win steak|(Moo!)]] 13:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree with blocking him in spirit, but as usual I question the wisdom of blocking external paid editors while permitting paid editing at [[WP:REWARD]]. -[[User:Hit bull, win steak|Hit bull, win steak]][[User talk:Hit bull, win steak|(Moo!)]] 16:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I cannot remember where it was, but there was discussion about the principle of allowing (third party) editing. I believe it was generally agreed that if the editing didn't violate any policy or guideline it would be no different than volunteer authored work and therefore valid. The only possible problem would be WP:COI but if it was undetectable in the work then it isn't really a concern. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 20:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
::This editor is committing a fraud upon eBay by promising things that violate site policies and that this person cannot guarantee. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 05:40, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::If the editors edits conform to WP policies and guidelines (I'm not saying they do, just '''if''') then what duty of care did we owe to eBay and/or third parties which results in us blocking an editor for off-wiki promises for actions that are not in themselves against the creed that "anyone can edit"? Are we creating precedent in blocking an editor for making promises outside of WP which does not (potentially) result in violating WP editing principles? [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Well a precedent was already created with Jimbo's blocking of [[User:MyWikiBiz]]. [[User:Cowman109|Cowman109]][[User talk:Cowman109|Talk]] 21:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::Oh, and I never suggested that this was a sock of MyWikiBiz, but that this was just a similar situation. And I find it hard to believe that MWB would have socks like that, as he seemed to be quite a professional person who just happened to be caught up in the not so acceptable area of advertising for companies on Wikipedia. [[User:Cowman109|Cowman109]][[User talk:Cowman109|Talk]] 21:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::Thanks, that was informative and answered my query. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
unindent) In response to ">[[User:Cowman109|Cowman109]], was MyWikiBiz not banned for sockpuppetry and/or making legal threats? Neither would apply in this case. [[User:Risker|Risker]] 21:58, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:I've added url Democrat4president.org to the Blacklist[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ASpam-blacklist&diff=155923830&oldid=155797088], and it appears [[:Democrat4president.org]] article has already been deleted.--[[User:Hu12|Hu12]] 22:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
::Yes, MyWikiBiz was banned for those it appears, but the outlying issue that started it all was the fact that he was paid to advertise for businesses on Wikipedia, I guess. That's the only similarity here I meant to bring up - the fact that we have another paid editor issue. [[User:Cowman109|Cowman109]][[User talk:Cowman109|Talk]] 22:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

So when did everyone turn psychic so that they can determine the motivations of an editor for contributing. As long as contributions adhere to the content policy and guidance then what justification is there for blocking or otherwise harassing them? If a contributor engages in persistent confrontations over the content that falls into the existing methods for censure and enforcement.

I really think people need to get a sense of perspective here.

[[User:ALR|ALR]] 08:18, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:ALR, this editor is perpetrating a fraud. I realize what a strong word this is so let me repeat it: ''this editor is perpetrating a fraud''. This person is purporting to sell a service on eBay that would guarantee any purchaser a "homepage" at Wikipedia (read: an article, regardless of underlying notability) and guarantees twelve outgoing links to the purchaser's website. This person has no ability to make such guarantees, which are in blatant violation of [[WP:NOT]], [[WP:OWN]], [[WP:COI]], and [[WP:SPAM]]. It is a play upon the client's ignorance and our goodwill. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 15:41, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::the nature of any advertising on eBay is eBays problem, not Wikipedias. Frankly as far as the eBay advert is concerned, and the Craigslist ones below, ''caveat emptor''. If someone purchases the service and then discovers that it can't be fulfilled then that is between them and the vendor. Wikipedia has no place in the transaction, other than as a third party.
::I'd go as far as to say that any effort to do something, beyond what's already covered in the content policy and guidance, about it probably increases any liability.
::I'd consider a comparison with someone who is employed by an organisation and edits articles related to them, either during their work time, or in their own time. Take a look at the [[PA Consulting Group]] page for an example of someone in the marketing department of the company dealing with the article.
::I appreciate that in any system there is a tendency for rules and administranium to self perpetuate, but frankly I'd like to see the jackboots kicking in more appropriate doors. wikipedia has enough of its own problems without sorting out eBay and Craigslist.
::[[User:ALR|ALR]] 15:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Selling something which it is patently obvious is unable to be delivered is fraud. While Wikipedia probably would be seen in the courts as a victim of this, not a perpetrator, we've moved, independently, to avoid such problems. You see that as a problem? That's an unusual perspective, and you seem to be almost supportive of it. Further, if you don't like what [[User:Summilux]] is doing to the PA COnsulting group article, talk to him/her, and edit that article to be better. If talking doesn't work, go to the COIN folks, and ask for help. We have recourse available, nad saying 'well, they're doing it too' isn't a valid defense. [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 21:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::::My point with regard to PA consulting was that the blatant advertising was dealt with by discussion. That waas an example of a more general point, what is the situation with employees, or indeed contractors within an organisation, editing the articles related to their employers? I appreciate that the point was probably more subtle than is usual in this area.
::::I have no problem with someone making money out of this system, they've seen opportunities and they're exploiting them. If the advertised service is fraudulent then that is between the parties involved; Wikipedia is neither responsible for it, nor a victim of it. However I do object to some creeping effort to police the whole web. Policies and guidelines allow this to be handled without the rather excessive step of preemptive blocking of accounts, in fact you clearly identify two of the approaches yourself, and another is being used immediately below this.
::::So much for ''anyone can edit'', frankly ones motivations for editing shouldn't be policed. Play the ball, not the player....
::::[[User:ALR|ALR]] 21:20, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
*[[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_anarchy]] Just because anyone can edit doesn't mean they're welcome to roam wild. This site has policies and standards.
*[[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_blog.2C_webspace_provider.2C_social_networking.2C_or_memorial_site]] We don't have homepages: we have encyclopedia articles.
*[[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_your_web_host]] A more explicit policy statement of the above.
*[[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory]] Wikipedia ''is not a resource for conducting business.''
*[[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information]] Subjects have to satisfy a certain threshold of verifiable information to merit an article.
*[[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox]] Advertising and self-promotion are explicitly against policy.
I don't set out to police every entry at eBay or Craigslist, but as an administrator of Wikipedia I most certainly do pay attention when someone attempts to manipulate Wikipedia for ideological or profit motives. I deal with this kind of thing all the time. And if you'd rather participate in a different wiki where that kind of editing is welcome and I don't volunteer, you are most welcome to create one or join one. Unless you persuade consensus here to alter several fundamental policies and guidelines, I'll keep right on doing my thing. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 02:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

:Clearly there is something I'm not communicating here. I've pointed out several times that '''Policy and Guidelines''' exist which allow us to address content issues. I have a concern that there is a pre-emptive effort to ban people on the basis that they '''might''' break those policies and guidelines, predicated on their service offering; writing or editing articles for monetary reward.
:If that's not what you're suggesting then it's not clear from your wording.
:The effort to justify pre-emptive action based on your assumption that the actual contractual arrangement '''might''' be fraudulent strikes me as rather disingenuous, and comes close to being intellectually fraudulent in it's own right. Of course I might apply a very different standard of justification around punitive action than you do. It strikes me that you're seeking to justify making up your own rules on the hoof, which is a risky direction to take.
:Of course your suggestion that I should ''f*ck off elsewhere'' does seem to be consistent with the approach you seek to justify. Clearly my expectation of self discipline and professional behaviour from administrators is misplaced.
:[[User:ALR|ALR]] 07:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

::I wouldn't bother so much about the "fraud" aspect, the fact that he might be unable to fulfill his "contract". I bother about that he is obviously willing to ''try'' to fulfil it. Which entails that he is willing to write articles ''regardless of the encyclopedic merits'' of the subject, and make an effort sneaking them into Wikipedia, bending our rules if necessary. Note that he isn't just selling his services to customers he judges suitable (as MyWikiBiz did, if I remember correctly); he is selling them to anybody, to the highest bidder. So, according to the e-bay rules, presumably he hasn't even got any control over which customers he accepts or not. If I hire him to write an article about my pet cat, he will be obliged to try and write one and fight to have it included. This is what he is publicly declaring he's willing to do. And this means he is automatically not a good-faith contributor. [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 08:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:::This is interesting. What eBay seller is going to risk getting negged over something he can't deliver, and, as noted above, about any subject the buyer wants? The seller has 6500+ positives with 6 negs, none of them in the last 12 months. $100 just doesn't seem worth the risk, but it's a creepy little section of eBay anyway. Of the five or so buyers I found from the last month (seller uses exact wording except for names to sell Yahoo Answer, Google, Facebook, etc pages), two have left feedback...buyer Robbo0 bought on Aug. 16 and left positive on Aug. 27 and Diremine left positive on Aug. 31, while RayJasm left a cryptic positive on Aug. 19 (bought Aug. 9). Other purchases were buyer from Bulgaria, online store "My Native Creations" and GiaPromotions, which markets poker stuff. The two articles could be connected with the feedback, but I couldn't see the dates from the already deleted article to see if it matched up. Be interesting to see what feedback comes from these buyers down the road. [[User:Flowanda|Flowanda]] | [[User talk:Flowanda|Talk]] 19:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

===Craigslist===
eBay is behind the curve compared to [[Craigslist]]. From a Google search of site:craigslist.org for "wikipedia":

* [http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/wrg/397156391.html This guy] has "two projects that should be of some interest to an accomplished author with a potential book deal sometime in the future" and non-disclosure/secrecy agreements. It helps if, despite Wikipedia's "encyclopedic" style, you could "employ some passion." Salary is negotiable, of course

* [http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/wri/412091373.html A local filmmaker] in Philadelphia wants someone to "create a Wiki profile" about him/her

* Canadians will be glad to know that Wikipedia [http://toronto.craigslist.org/crg/413746366.html needs photographers in Toronto] to snap photos for use in articles. The photographer even gets a link to his site from "whatever article(s) Wikipedia uses the photos in", in exchange for taking "pro bono" shots

* [http://houston.craigslist.org/wet/407191389.html Here's] a guy in Houston who "guarantees (to write for you) a Wikipedia entry free from spelling and grammar errors", plus a "chance to become part of history". (I never thought of myself as historical.) —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:KrakatoaKatie|KrakatoaKatie]] ([[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/KrakatoaKatie|contribs]]) 08:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 

There are more like this that have expired and are unavailable for viewing. The things people will do to promote themselves never ceases to amaze me. - [[User:KrakatoaKatie|'''Krakatoa''']][[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|Katie]] 08:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:Actually the third of those four listings is completely legitimate. The other three look very bad. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 15:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
::Well, he can't get a link in the article. In the photograph, maybe. But never in the article. [[User:Bastique|Cary Bass]] [[User talk:Bastique|demandez]] 15:54, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
::I wrote to the photographer, explaining he can't offer a link *in* the article. [[User:Bastique|Cary Bass]] [[User talk:Bastique|demandez]] 15:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Good to know the third one is okay – the phrase "Wikipedia uses the photo in" sounded very odd. - [[User:KrakatoaKatie|'''Krakatoa''']][[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|Katie]] 20:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

: Lordy. The fourth guy has had a long, illustrated, reasonably well written, but completely [[Wikipedia:Notability|non-notable]] article for almost a year: [[J. Kevin Tumlinson]]. See you all when [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/J. Kevin Tumlinson|this AFD red link turns blue]]. :-). --[[User:AnonEMouse|AnonEMouse]] [[User_talk:AnonEMouse|(squeak)]] 17:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:: Arrgh! I looked for him in userspace, not the mainspace. Look at the article's history - I'm trying to [[WP:AGF]], but how many believe [[User:Oldhatgolfer]] and [[User:Hat72]] are different people? - [[User:KrakatoaKatie|'''Krakatoa''']][[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|Katie]] 20:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:::They _are_ the same guy. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:DeletedContributions&target=Oldhatgolfer Oldhatgolfer's deleted edits], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:DeletedContributions&target=Hat72 Hat72's deleted edits]. (Non-admins can't see these, sorry.) - [[User:KrakatoaKatie|'''Krakatoa''']][[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|Katie]] 20:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I almost forgot – I don't want to hijack ANI, but there's one more, and it may be the best one of all:

* A "Nude resort and spa" in [http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cpg/413969204.html Los Angeles] wants a "WIKI expert to help resort on trade post for us". They "are seeking more help with really working wikipedia and some other sites like this as we cant seem to be able to post", and "and there seems to be many places for us to placemnt on Wikipedia". They're willing to exchange expertise for a free midweek stay at sea mountain inn for two people (URL removed) or two free dayspa passes for two" to their nudie spa.

If you're interested, please don't tell me about the experience. I have enough problems. ;-) - [[User:KrakatoaKatie|'''Krakatoa''']][[User talk:KrakatoaKatie|Katie]] 20:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:Free midweek stay at a nudie spa??? WP:Conflict of WHAT? I'm there! Any female parties interested in that second ticket, you know who's Talk page to hit up. Awww yeahhhh. :-P Bullzeye[[User talk:Bullzeye| (Ring for Service)]] 11:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:: I guess since it's not an offer of money, it doesn't violate [[WP:COI]]. However, some of us (like yours truly) aren't at our best unclothed, so it's not all that appealing of an offer. -- [[User:Llywrch|llywrch]] 23:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Sure it violates [[WP:COI]]. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 14:34, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Only if the editor in question seeks to insert content in violation of policy, and persists in doing so when that content is challenged by other editors. Although I'd agree that in this sense there is no real difference between a financial and non-financial reward.
::::[[User:ALR|ALR]] 15:45, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::A ''conflict of interest'' is precisely what its name implies: a conflicting motivational factor that could lead to behavior that works against the building of an encyclopedia. This is an old concept that managed situations such as free junkets long before Wikipedia or the Internet existed. You've offered no reason why Wikipedia should be forced to reinvent the wheel in this regard, and if you have some reason then you ought to advance it at the guideline talk page rather than here. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 17:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

::::::I'm not entirey sure why you feel it neccesary to be quite so hostile towards me, peculiar really.
::::::There is a potential conflict of interest in the situation, no doubt of that whatsoever. However it only becomes a conflict if the required edits don't meet the content demands of ''the community'', recognising that those demands are somewhat fluid in places.
::::::Whilst it remains a ''potential'' I see no need for any proverbial jackboots kicking the doors in until there is an attempt to break the extant policies. I'm not suggesting any need to re-invent any wheels, I'm merely cautious of pre-emptive action. In the UK we have this quaint tradition of considering people innocent until proven guilty.
::::::[[User:ALR|ALR]] 18:50, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::This is the second time you've referred to jackboots in replies, yet you accuse me of hostility? There are proper channels for this discussion. You have focused on an inappropriate one, refused to redirect energies into areas where your input might sway consensus, and expressed your opinion in hyperbolic terms. I have consulted Jimbo Wales, Cary Bass, and members of the arbitration committee when these matters arise in order to ensure my "jackboot" is in step. What work have you done in the area and whose input have you sought? From the looks of things, very little. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 22:23, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::::I am more than a little concerned over the ad hominem aspect of these responses. The query as regards "paid for" article writing is one I raised earlier, and received a much more civil response (which I recommend to ALR). FYI, "jackboot" has a different cultural meaning to British (rather than English language) readers/editors and I would have hoped that all administrators would recognise that there are different nuances over the en-Wiki - and respond accordingly.[[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 22:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that difference. It can be a little hard to hear a voice calling from the other side of The Pond. Really, I've wished for a long time that even ten percent of the people who offer opinions on how [[WP:COI]] ought to be interepreted actually pitched in at the chronically backlogged [[WP:COIN]]. If that colored my reply I apologize. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 22:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::This excerpt from [[Nineteen Eighty Four]] (the ultimate British [[dystopia]]) sums up the UK attitude toward the concept; ''"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — for ever."'' The boot is a jackboot. As for COIN, as with much on WP, comment (opinion) is cheap and action is... labour intensive. "'bless the COIN patrollers, and thank 'eavens you ain't one of 'em." or, No need to apologise - we are here to build the encyclopedia. Cheers. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 00:44, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

::::::::Well I regret that I appear to have offended you in my effort to get a straight answer to the question. I'm less concerned about COI per-se as what I see as a justification for punitive action based on an admins assessment of motivations, rather than evidence of non-compliance with policy and guideline in Wikipedia itself. I'm sorry if you feel that I've been unreasonable in seeking to get to that understanding. My point about integrity was related to the argument, not the individual, it's regrettable that wasn't clear.
::::::::Personally I steer clear of the governance in Wikipedia nowadays, in my experience it's a futile exercise because the scale of the project has outgrown the existing framework for governance and the creation of further governance. That's a rather broader issue than this specific area though. I'm also rather more pushed for time since I moved to a new job than much of it actually needs. Now that things are freeing up a little if the current flavour of this page is anything to go by I'll probably focus on other things. I spend my working day helping organisations improve how they operate, the first step is always recognising the need for change....... But that's a fairly broad philosophical debate about the evolution of communities and the interaction of social networks; an inevitable consequence of collaboration.
::::::::Thanks for your time.
::::::::[[User:ALR|ALR]] 12:20, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:: Er, my comment above was meant as a ''joke''. (Not that I would want people to laugh at me if they saw me in the nude.) I didn't intend for it to ignite a flame war. :-( -- [[User:Llywrch|llywrch]] 19:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

*Once again: it's strange to me that someone on an external website offering a stay at a resort in exchange for an article would be violating policy, but someone offering it here on [[WP:RB]] would be just fine. Can anyone explain why this is the case? -[[User:Hit bull, win steak|Hit bull, win steak]][[User talk:Hit bull, win steak|(Moo!)]] 23:17, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
*:Most of the offers on the Reward Board are token payments: $20 - $50 per ''featured'' article, usually on some obviously encyclopedic topic - and many of the offers have no dollar value at all, just pledges for reciprocal editing or barnstars. [[Wikipedia:Reward_board#LetLifeIn.com|This]] raises my eyebrow and I wouldn't object if some established editors monitored the page accordingly. If push comes to shove I'd rather eliminate the money section from the Reward Board than let that page become a wedge issue. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 23:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

::No idea this board existed. I've been in the dark ;). [[User:Navou|Navou]] [[User talk:Navou|banter]] 00:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::And I'll have to assume some good faith, but even with that, the entry is eye catching. Commercial? [[User:Navou|Navou]] [[User talk:Navou|banter]] 00:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:Durova, how much do you think Duremine is paying its writers? I'd say $20 would be the high end. [[User:Flowanda|Flowanda]] | [[User talk:Flowanda|Talk]] 20:41, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

== Blocked User:Jmfangio as a reincarnation of User:Tecmobowl ==

Following a checkuser, I have blocked {{User|Jmfangio}} as a reincarnation of community banned {{User|Tecmobowl}}. [[User:Morven|Matthew Brown (Morven)]] ([[User talk:Morven|T]]:[[Special:Contributions/Morven|C]]) 08:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:Wha...[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jmfangio-Chrisjnelson]]...*clears head*... '''[[User:Daniel|Daniel]]''' 10:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
::Probably should have checked earlier, but it didn't click for me. Durova had suspicions which led me to it. [[User:Morven|Matthew Brown (Morven)]] ([[User talk:Morven|T]]:[[Special:Contributions/Morven|C]]) 10:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

shouldn't someone close the RfAr? [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 13:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:Not necessarily, but this simplifies it. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 14:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:No, because we still have to look at Chrisjnelson's behaviour. [[User:Morven|Matthew Brown (Morven)]] ([[User talk:Morven|T]]:[[Special:Contributions/Morven|C]]) 22:56, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Related to that, I've filed a report under [[Wikipedia:Long_term_abuse#Notre_Dame_vandal]], added that vandal to the list of banned users, and indeffed his socks. There seems to be no precedent for this so I've been [[WP:BOLD|bold]]. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 19:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

You guys may want to let SirFozzie know that Jmfangio is a Tecmobowl sock. He'd said that he would have lifted the block himself provided Tecmobowl meet [[Wikipedia:Community_sanction_noticeboard/Archive10#User:Tecmobowl certain conditions]], but it's pretty safe to say that he won't be allowed back. [[User:Blueboy96|Blueboy]][[User talk:Blueboy96|96]] 18:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I suspected it that Jmfangio was a sock of somebody, but didn't really thought it was tecmobowl (as he was mostly fighting in football articles while tecmobowl dealt with baseball articles). Thanks [[User:Jaranda|Jaranda]] [[User_talk:Jaranda|wat's sup]] [[Wikipedia:Notabilty (sports)|Sports!]] 19:33, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Techobowl/Jmfangio made peace with Chrisnelson during the arbcom case, and while was was evading is ban, most of his edits that weren't revert warning was rather useful, and another issue with Techo was aggresive communication, and that wasn't the case with Jmfangio right before his block. I support that he be unbanned and several admins tutoring him (including me, and possibly Duvona, Daniel and, SirFozzie) and if he becomes disruptive again, we can always reban. Thanks [[User:Jaranda|Jaranda]] [[User_talk:Jaranda|wat's sup]] [[Wikipedia:Notabilty (sports)|Sports!]] 19:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== TfD disruption ==

{{seealso|Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Irpen persisting in using a deletion board for personal attacks}} {{unsigned|Digwuren}} at 22:20, September 9, 2007 (UTC)

{{user|Digwuren}} attempts to disrupt the TfD of the template whose deletion he seems to oppose by tweaking the wording of the nomination for deletion submitted by the nominator (see [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 September 9#Template:POV Russia]].)

He claims [[WP:NPA]] entitles him to delete most of the nominator's explanation while the wording of nomination accurately reflects the problem of the template and its creator. Digwuren then revert-wars over his redacting of other users' comments. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_September_9&diff=156788930&oldid=156788711] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_September_9&diff=156785755&oldid=156785496]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_September_9&diff=156782139&oldid=156781724]

Could someone explain to him the policy about editing other user's comments and watch further developments of this TfD? Thanks. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 21:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:The policy against editing comments made by others is very subversivent to the policies against [[WP:AGF|assuming bad faith]] and [[WP:NPA|calling people racist]]. -[[User:Amarkov|Amarkov]] [[User_talk:Amarkov|moo!]] 22:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::If you disagree that the template is racist, your comment is welcome at the survey. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 22:04, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:::And the rationale behind allowing you to assume the template was created in bad faith would be...? -[[User:Amarkov|Amarkov]] [[User_talk:Amarkov|moo!]] 22:06, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Just read what the template says. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 22:07, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Indeed, sometimes it pays to investigate the matter before rushing to comment. --[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirla]][[User_talk:Ghirlandajo|-трёп-]] 12:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::: If there is a problem with the template then that should be dealt with soberly as Wikipedians, and not by making personal attacks. A personal attack in a deletion nomination is still a personal attack, and should be avoided. --[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]] 12:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::There is no attack Tony, as several editors pointed out above. Did you even read the discussion? --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]]

=== [[User:Irpen|Irpen]] persisting in using a deletion board for personal attacks ===
:Moved from [[WP:AN]].--[[User:Chaser|Chaser]] - [[User_talk:Chaser|T]] 23:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
[[User:Irpen|Irpen]], who is currently involved in a [[User talk:Irpen#Digwuren arbitration case|sterile]], yet lasting [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren|arbitration case]], is now seen using the [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion]] noticeboard for personal attacks. I first stroke out the offending parts, later removed them under [[WP:RPA]], but he kept reinstating them:
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_September_9&diff=156781724&oldid=156780686],
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ATemplates_for_deletion%2FLog%2F2007_September_9&diff=156785496&oldid=156783780],
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_September_9&diff=156788398&oldid=156788340],
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2007_September_9&diff=156789388&oldid=156789074].

I'm normally not too sensitive about slightly offending comments and can accept good humour, but this case is neither. A TfD nomination that spends most of its content on commenting an editor rather than the nomination, and, indeed, contains but '''one''' word that can be reasonably considered discussing content, not personality, is something exceptional. Accordingly, I humbly request that the administrators take all proper and necessary measures to end this uncivility. [[User:Digwuren|Digwuren]] 21:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

:The thread should be merged with [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27 noticeboard/Incidents#TfD disruption]] --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 22:06, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

**You've removed it repeatedly "under" [[WP:RPA]]? Digwuren, [[WP:RPA]] has no authority. It's not policy and not a guideline. It's an essay, and a highly contested one. Please take a look at its talkpage, and at the first lines of the essay, which explain this. I quote: "It has often been abused by malefactors, and may not have community consensus... It should, at most, be interpreted strictly and used sparingly." If you apply it you may find yourself "held accountable for questionable uses." "Questionable" is a mild term for removing ''and edit-warring over'' another user's comment on an issue ''you're involved in.'' Stop it. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 23:47, 9 September 2007 (UTC).
::* For the record, I'm not in any way involved in this template. I don't care much about it, but I do care about a soliloquy of insults masquerading as a TfD nomination. [[User:Digwuren|Digwuren]] 23:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
:::*Echoing what Bishonen said, edit warring over the removal of personal attacks is not a good way to go. If it's undone once, then let it be. Generally unless it's blatant enough as someone saying 'fuck you', it's a good idea to not touch it. [[User:Cowman109|Cowman109]][[User talk:Cowman109|Talk]] 23:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
As I recall, the indefinite block for Digwuren was lifted due to promises of good behaviour, but the conduct seemed to have scarcely changed. [[User:El C|El_C]] 00:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::* It's my first time removing personal attacks. If you look closely at the article's history, you see I proposed a series of approaches as to how the removal should go, in attempt to find compromise. And for the record, I've never been indefinitely blocked. [[User:Digwuren|Digwuren]] 17:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Why would RPA even apply to those statements? I don't see a single personal attack anywhere in them. [[User:Swatjester|⇒]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|SWATJester]] [[WP:CLIMBING|Denny Crane.]] 00:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::Here's the original wording: "[[WP:POINT]]y inflammatory bad-faith template for article tagging with racist overtones created by the user with history of creation such disruptive templates (see [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Notpropaganda]].)"
::Let's consider every part separately.
::* "[[WP:POINT]]y" can be considered a description of the template in question. This is the only such word, by the way.
::* "inflammatory bad-faith template" is an assertion on not on the template, but on the user. It claims that the user is deliberately, in bad faith, causing flames. This does not belong into any serious discussion unless it can be backed down by appropriate evidence, which is clearly not the case here.
::* "for article tagging with racist overtones" is an assertion of racist intent regarding the user. Again, nothing about the article; only an insult towards [[User:Suva|Suva]], who, by any reasonable standard, can't be considered racist.
::* "created by the user with history of creation such disruptive templates" should be obvious.
::* And finally, "(see [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Notpropaganda]].)" is interesting, because it refers to another TfD by [[User:Irpen|Irpen]] where he deliberately used such wording, only to be then pointed out it was not only insulting but also not backed with any facts. [[User:Digwuren|Digwuren]] 17:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
He is allowed to claim a template contains "racist overtones," you have no right to censor him. If you edit his comments, or the comments of anyone else again, I, myself, will block you, and you'll be forced to participate in [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren|RFAR/Digwuren]] from your talk page, with the aid of an [[WP:CLERK|clerk]]. [[User:El C|El_C]] 21:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
------------
:It often amazes me the lengths to which those who complain, and even soapbox, about censorship, are willing to go to silence others. It stops now, Digwuren. [[User:El C|El_C]] 00:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::There are times and places for political discourse. There are even places for insulting. Some people pay good money to be able to call in to folks who claim to be scantily clad females, only to hear insults. But the TfD board is not a place for insults, and you can't reasonably calls attempts to retain civility on that board "[[censorship]]". [[User:Digwuren|Digwuren]] 17:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::Note that I've asked the unblocking admin for a [[User_talk:Deskana#User:Digwuren_followup|brief followup]] (i.e. of whether Digwuren has been living up to the terms of the unblock). [[User:El C|El_C]] 01:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::: Deskana's report would be appreciated here. As far as I can see, Digwuren is on a never-ending revert-warring spree. It does not appear likely that he was unblocked in order to indulge in this sort of behaviour. --[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirla]][[User_talk:Ghirlandajo|-трёп-]] 12:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Behavior of Diwurgen, Irpen, and other related issues is now under review by ArbCom. I suggest archiving this thread, there is nothing we can add. Diwurgen, please remember that ANI is not a complains thread and concentrate on your ArbCom case.--[[User:Piotrus| Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus| talk ]] 01:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:: Piotrus, could you please refrain from adding inflammatory comments whenever Irpen's name is mentioned? That would be highly appreciated. --[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirla]][[User_talk:Ghirlandajo|-трёп-]] 12:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:My behavior is under the review by ArbCom? Interesting. I did not know that but fine. I welcome the review of ArbCom if there is any. Judging by the familiar faces popping up at once whenever I post, I am always under some sort of a "review" anyway. Too bad some editors don't have anything better to do but commenting on most each of my edit. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 02:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

::My today's wikitime has been spent on populating [[Soviet occupation]], reading several articles for [[Pullapää crisis]] and reviewing a [[WP:GA]] candidate. What have you done today, besides insulting people? [[User:Digwuren|Digwuren]] 02:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::: Just for the record: your "Soviet occupation" essays should be prodded immediately. --[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirla]][[User_talk:Ghirlandajo|-трёп-]] 12:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::: Yeah, let's do that: Article proposed for deletion because: [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT|Ghirla doesn't like it]] and thinks that the article [[Suck|sucks]]. [[User:Suva|Suva]] 12:53, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Support archiving for ArbCom to decide. [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 02:15, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:: Care to elaborate what needs to be decided upon? I corroborate that, when I was involved in deleting two articles started by Digwuren and Co several months ago, there was a flurry of sterile edit-warring over removal of my comments (including the entire rationale for deletion) with references to [[WP:RFA]]. As a result, the deletion process was derailed. I believe Digwuren deserves a stern warning for having crossed the line of disruption. --[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirla]][[User_talk:Ghirlandajo|-трёп-]] 12:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
: For ArbCom to decide what? I started this thread to ask some to take a look and stop the ongoing disruption of TfD. If this is done, there is nothing to "decide". Just watch this TfD, that's all. For the record, I have no objection to ArbCom getting involved in this nonsense too if this board is not enough. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 02:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:: AC looking into this or that is not a free pass for disruption and I will not sit idle if it continues. [[User:El C|El_C]] 02:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::: Agreed, this disruptive block shopping by [[User:Irpen|Irpen]] needs to be examined by Arbcom. [[User:Martintg|Martintg]] 05:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:::: Block shopping? Did I ask to block anyone? All I asked is that Digwuren be told in no unclear terms to stop editing my comments. The message seems to have got through since he now left them alone. You are welcome to try to get ArbCom involved of course in this too. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 05:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::: I find your double standard disturbing. [[User:Digwuren|Digwuren]] 17:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Generally removal of comments are bad approach, if those are not obvious vandalism, ethnically based harassment etc. Can't find such in Irpens comments. In other hand we have an example then administrator's [[user:Piotrus]] talk page was converted to attack-harassment page, pointed to specific contributors [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Piotrus#Narutowicz]. Nor administrator Piotrus, nor anybody else removed those ethnically based harassment made by Halibutt. Second point, to name Irepn's messages on this board as ''disruptive block shopping'' as Martintg did, is misleading and unjust, say at least. As there are no hints about block request. [[User:M.K|M.K.]] 12:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
* Obviously the solution for this is for Irpen to avoid making inflammatory statements of this sort. --12:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]] ([[User talk:Tony Sidaway|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tony Sidaway|contribs]]) {{{2|}}} 
**Your comment, Tony, makes me wonder whether you even saw the page in question. Uninformed snide remarks are unhelpful. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]]

== User picks up his vandalism right after week long block ends ==

A week ago [[User: Daddy Kindsoul]] was blocked for continuingly reverting the [[NOFX]] page, violating his revert parole.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Daddy_Kindsoul/Archive_1#Blocked_5]

Today the block expired and he went to the NOFX page to make the same revert again.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=NOFX&action=history]

Now I know I should assume good faith, but considering the number of times he has been warned to go to the talk page before he reverts, I think this can be categorised as vandalism, as he clearly knows better.

I'm not sure what his revert parole conditions are, but he may well have violated them again.
[[User:Hoponpop69|Hoponpop69]] 23:26, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

:More like intentional disruption, not vandalism, but that's splitting hairs. Guess he needs a parole extension, contact the RFAR folks. [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 01:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Hoponpop is been dishonest. As you can see from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=NOFX&diff=prev&oldid=156610876 diff] no vandalism has been purportrated, just the additional of information with vertified sources; which he happens to keep blanking (See, [[WP:VANDAL]]) with his IP (see, [[WP:SOCK]]). Hoponpop has already been blocked by an admin this week for his abusive behaviour towards me (vile personal attacks in edit summaries), yet he continues to throw out personal attacks here.. clearly hasn't learned his lesson. - [[User:Daddy Kindsoul|The Daddy]] 11:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Is that you, [[User:Michael|Michael]]? [[User:Corvus cornix|Corvus cornix]] 16:05, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

If you are so sure I am a vandal and a sockpupptet, go ahead and file a report.[[User:Hoponpop69|Hoponpop69]] 22:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

::I don't need to, its already been proven that you use IP's like [[User:68.114.92.198|68.114.92.198]] and others to attack articles and harass.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:68.114.92.198#Block] And spread more insults, you have even been accused of spreading racism while using one of your sock IP's.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:68.114.92.198#rasicsm] I come here to work on articles, not to play silly little games with "people" like you. The fact that you were blocked for calling me an "asshole" should give you a hint that maybe you should move onto doing something constructive. - [[User:Daddy Kindsoul|The Daddy]] 01:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Re: {{IPuser|129.133.124.194}} ==

The IP {{IPuser|129.133.124.194}} seems to think that I was threating him/her [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:129.133.124.194&oldid=156825596] when I place a 3RR/edit war warning just to inform him/her about 3RR. He responded by placing this comment on my talk page [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ANat&diff=156846430&oldid=156706246]. I placed a [[WP:NPA]] notice [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3A129.133.124.194&diff=156851022&oldid=156846838] on his/her user talk page, but I fear that the IP user will react in a hostile manner as he/she might see it as another threat. I don't expect and I doubt that any sysop action to be taken against this IP user. However I would like to request that sysops, if possible, keep an eye on this IP user. [[user:Nat|'''nat''']][[user talk:Nat|'''t''']][[Special:Contributions/Nat|a]][[Special:Emailuser/Nat|'''n''']][http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=Nat&site=en.wikipedia.org g] 04:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:There's a danger that this will escalate into a war of warning templates. Probably the best way to de-escalate the situation is to make a polite post on their Talk page (or yours) explaining that you were not making a personal attack, that you don't have any animosity towards them, and that you simply wanted to alert them to the 3RR. It's probably also a good idea to explain that you would much rather discuss disputed edits, with a view to finding a compromise, rather than revert-war about them. [[User:SheffieldSteel|Sheffield Steel]][[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|talkers]][[Special:contributions/SheffieldSteel|stalkers]] 15:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::I'll do that...anyhoo...he's done it again: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ANat&diff=157064592&oldid=156917322]. [[user:Nat|'''nat''']][[user talk:Nat|'''t''']][[Special:Contributions/Nat|a]][[Special:Emailuser/Nat|'''n''']][http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=Nat&site=en.wikipedia.org g] 02:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:Denizz]] ==

[[User:Denizz]] three times added the same unsourced information [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anti-Turkism&action=history] to the [[Anti-Turkism]]. When I wrote him to stop and go to talk page I received 2 not very kind warnings by him asking maybe Im using a sockpuppet and so on...[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Andranikpasha&diff=156917027&oldid=156460207] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Andranikpasha&diff=156917677&oldid=156917027] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Andranikpasha&diff=156918163&oldid=156917677].[[User:Andranikpasha|Andranikpasha]] 13:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Andranikpasha, that information was already there, if you remember. You are the one who removed it. It was consensus. It seems to me that you are the only one who claims at least openly that ASALA is not anti-Turkish, which would mean that your removal is far from consensus. Also my edit summary was a response to your edit summary (you said there was a discussion (on ASALA's page) and I said noone else disagreed with me). What I said on your talkpage , was that there came an open proxy anon just at the right time, and did the same edit with you, if that anon is you that would be violating 3RR and sockpuppetry, I don't see anything wrong with it. Also we have another Canadian open proxy anon just like that one that is claimed to be you, Artaxiad, Vonones, and Hu1lee. See [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Artaxiad]]. I also noted that you made at least three reverts, and was surprised that you put all the edit warring allegations on me, which might have made me sound in a way I wouldn't like. I would have liked it more, if you had informed me about this discussion. I could have missed it. [[User:Denizz|Deniz]][[User Talk:Denizz|T]][[Special:Contributions/Denizz|C]] 15:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Denizz, I think its not the better place to start a discussion. And all other things you wrote havent any links and seems to be your opinion. For example, see here [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anti-Turkism&action=history] if I maked 3 reverts...Also pls add all your claims on sockpuppets to Administrators as Im not an administrator and your unproven accusations cannot be pleasant for me! PS- And also pls dont start editwarring here [[Anti-Armenianism]] as you cant accuse if I even edited it... [[User:Andranikpasha|Andranikpasha]] 15:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Andranikpasha, but you started the discussion. I don't know all the rules on this page, these should be my first edits here, but I think that I should be allowed to reply you, in fact I should have been contacted by you in the first place, imo. Let me first put what I meant by consensus:
*KeremOzcan: Andranikpasha, I see that you're acting in good faith, but unfortunately it's not possible to agree with you in the Anti-Turkism part
*Karent32: Well ASALA's purpose was to kill Turkish officials, it targeted a specific people so that narrows down to Anti-Turkism the category is not that bad, I say we use it maybe and be more sensitive to categories here
*VartanM has not made an explicit comment
*Atabek gave source
*Dbaba:I searched New York Times history for anti-Turkish and ASALA and saw no sources. It's hard to imagine anything being more anti-Turkish than ASALA though, given just how ridiculous their pretenses were: "Oh, I see, you've killed 3 of my ambassadors! Indeed, the Armenian Genocide occurred, here is half my country and a billion dollars! Kthx!"
*Grandmaster:Organization killing Turkish diplomats just for being Turks is clearly anti-Turkic. I don't think there's much to discuss here
:See also [[WP:Consensus]]. If you are after a third party intervention, I am OK with that, but you could have talked with me, and we could have looked for one together. We wouldn't have to write all these comments here. Sources are given, you could have put the sources there, or put a fact tag there, if that was what you were looking for. My allegation that you made there reverts were undue, sorry about that, i wasn't careful enough, possibly due to lack of sleep, or due to this dispute having originated in another article and carried here by you. The discussion on ASALA's talk page was not yet finished, but sofar everyone except you and Vartan did comment on the favor/obviousness of the anti-Turkism there. Sources were supplied as well. Vartan did not make an explicit comment as I stated above. This was the discussion you stated in one of your edit summaries, hence came my revert to that, as that discussion contradicted your edit.
[[User:Denizz|Deniz]][[User Talk:Denizz|T]][[Special:Contributions/Denizz|C]] 19:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

...sure... VartanM just asked: " would like to add that after the Esenboga airport incident, ASALA split into two groups and no civilians were killed after that." And I dont know if the majority of POVs is more important for Wiki than a simple source which you cant find until now! And I dont know how this refers to your warnings sended to me? So if you're just want to continue the discussion (I asked for that earlier, you didnt answer...), then lets to do it in the ASALA's talk page, as this is not a discussion list. [[User:Andranikpasha|Andranikpasha]] 19:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

: I would like to ask the admins to look into the behavior of [[User:Andranikpasha]]. He is simultaneously edit warring on 7 or 8 pages, while technically staying within the 3RR limits. The pages regularly reverted by Andranikpasha include, but are not limited to: [[September Days]], [[March Days]], [[Shushi Massacres]], [[Anti-Turkism]], [[Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia]] and a number of others. This clearly goes against the ruling of the latest Armenia – Azerbaijan arbcom case. Urgent attention of the admins to the behavior of this user would be appreciated. [[User:Grandmaster|Grandmaster]] 19:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Are you going to wikistalk me everywhere? By the way, this conflict started when you added my name to the check list of User:Artaxiad's sockpuppets, despite of no facts, just because I asked you to use reliable sources to prove anything... [[User:Andranikpasha|Andranikpasha]] 19:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Andranikpasha, I am sure that Grandmaster had many such pages watchlisted long before you started editing Wikipedia. I still think that you are not a sock of Artaxiad and co, but I've been wrong many times in my life. Also regarding Vartan's opinion, I cannot completely disagree with you, but he did not explicitly say anything, what he says is pointing to one direction (according to you and me). Anyway, there is still an overwhelming consensus, and note also that many editors I cited above can be Armenian, if it matters. The discussion on the talk page of ASALA hasn't ended yet, like I mentioned before, yet 'we've already met many seagulls', and even 'the land is seen'. [[User:Denizz|Deniz]][[User Talk:Denizz|T]][[Special:Contributions/Denizz|C]] 00:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

After this result at the sockpuppets check-list: ''"Andranikpasha contacted me in an email, and after looking through the edit histories, I've come to the conclusion that he is a good-faith editor, and I will assume with good faith that he is not a sock-puppet. While he and the confirmed sock-puppet Artaxiad have edited similar subjects, I see no "tag team" editing, nor shared POV. In fact, Andranikpasha seems to make very little additions to the text (therefore not inserting POV), instead finding sources and improving formatting. Also, his "mainspace" (article) edits go right up until today,[1] where Artaxiad's stop abruptly on April 9.[2] In conclusion, I have crossed Andranikpasha off the list as it is very clear that we have a case of mistaken identity."'' can I hope for a simple sorry? [[User:Andranikpasha|Andranikpasha]] 01:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Terror threat ==

{{resolved|1=Indefblocked. Not a credible threat by any stretch of the imagination.[[User:Swatjester|⇒]] [[User_talk:Swatjester|SWATJester]] [[WP:CLIMBING|Denny Crane.]] 17:08, 10 September 2007 (UTC)}}
See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=A_Warning_to_All&diff=prev&oldid=156952653 this] edit. Sincerley, --[[User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles]]''[[User talk:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Tally-ho!]]'' 16:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Cute. I warned the user while [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] deleted the article; fear our 133t tag-team administrating. -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]] ([[User talk:FisherQueen|Talk]]) 16:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::Delete, block, ignore. Nuclear weapons? Come off it, mate. Kids messing around...we were all young once. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 16:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::Thanks! Should we just treat these things as nonsense, or should we notify "authorities" whenever people post stuff like that? Isn't just making a threat techniclaly illegal somehow? Sincerely, --[[User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles]]''[[User talk:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Tally-ho!]]'' 16:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::No point in wasting valuable police time on some bored teenager. No evidence that this is a credible threat. -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]] ([[User talk:FisherQueen|Talk]]) 16:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Fair enough; I just think some pranks are far less funny than others and stuff like what that user wrote is just not cool. Best, --[[User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles]]''[[User talk:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Tally-ho!]]'' 16:53, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Exactly, and on that note, wasting police time is also illegal AFAIK. Admittedly, less serious than nukes, but still... [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 16:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::By the way, for something like this, was this board the correct one to take it to, or would I have been better off taking it to the "against vandalism" one instead? I've been "patrolling" the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/newusers new] user log to welcome new users and noticed some complex vandalism that I reported on the other board and that is also how I came upon this matter. Sincerely, --[[User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles]]''[[User talk:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Tally-ho!]]'' 16:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
No, ANI is fine, just in case the threat is credible. I agree that that sort of thing is not nice, which is why the user is blocked indef. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 16:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Okay, thanks for the reply! Sincerely, --[[User:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles]]''[[User talk:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles|Tally-ho!]]'' 16:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

FYI, the police are often very interested in this sort of threat, and occasionally these things result in real-live jail time. 5 days before the 6-month anniversary of the [[Columbine killings]], a Michael Ian Campbell sent an anonymous e-mail to a Columbine student telling him not to go to school the next day. (It was apparently a very, very stupid joke -- Campbell lived in Florida and didn't even own a gun.) He was arrested by the FBI and sentenced to 4 months in prison. So if a terrorist plot is later uncovered that bears any resemblance to what our friend "D the T" described, I'd expect him to face jail time (for being unlucky and stupid, if nothing else). – [[User:Quadell|Quadell]] ([[User_talk:Quadell|talk]]) ([[Special:Random|random]]) 17:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Though if a nuke does go off in NYC I'd think the police (provided there are any left) would have more important things to do than chase up "D of T"...[[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 18:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
[[Jake Brahm]] posted on 4chan that there were going to be terrorist attacks on stadiums and was arrested, yet it was a complete hoax/nonsense post. [[User:Jackaranga|Jackaranga]] 18:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:FWIW, I'd tagged this for speedy delete-as-nonsense earlier this morning, probably around the same time as this report was filed.--[[User:Sethacus|Sethacus]] 20:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE]] ==

I recently created an article concerning an up and coming Russian emigre author [[Lara Vapnyar]]. As I was sorting the page out the above user tagged the article as needing wikification. I removed the tag and advised the user that I was in the process of creating the article. There was an exchange, and in the end apparently the article had not been wikified to the user's satisfaction, as he left the following edit summary, which can be seen in the history page for the article.

''(wikified due to an incompetent user who still hasn't done it)''

I'd suggest that this is not a useful way to sort out differences over acceptable levels of wikification, and that it is a violation of [[WP:No_personal_attacks]]. Is it possible for an administrator to remove the slur from the edit summary? Thanks. [[User:Larry Dunn|Larry Dunn]] 16:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:That's not nice, but it was back in late August. I'm afraid that we usually don't delete/oversight specific revisions unless personal info has been revealed/libellous attacks made. Personal attacks and incivility in edit summaries are not enough, AFAIK. Sorry. Cheers, [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 16:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Why edit war over the tag? Why not just do the wikification and be done with it? What harm does a tag do? [[User:Corvus cornix|Corvus cornix]] 17:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

::No "edit warring" is going on here. I'm asking if an admin would clean up the edit summary to remove the prohibited personal attack. [[User:Larry Dunn|Larry Dunn]] 18:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I am normally one to be 99% civil but what happened is this. I tagged a new article which was in a terrible state -no categories , no links wikified, no paragraphing no real context thinking I was doing a good job new page patrolling. The user later rmeoved these saying I was premature. I layed back a bit and suggested how he might create new articles -and that once he posts them he can't go on at other editors who tag them for clean up if they are not wikified properly to begin with. The editor peristed he would attend to it so I though ok cool and left him to it. I returned however several days later and he had still not done it. Now can I be blamed for tagging articles and bothering to fix a problem myself when the editor didn't follow up his word? [[User:Ernst Stavro Blofeld| '''''♦ Sir Blofeld ♦''''']] [[User talk:Ernst Stavro Blofeld| '''"Talk"?''' ]] 17:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:It should be noted that the user tagged it six minutes after it was added, and added the comment about "incompetence" after the article had been wikified -- just not to his satisfaction. In any event, nothing the user cites is described in [[WP:No_personal_attacks]] as an exception to that policy. [[User:Larry Dunn|Larry Dunn]] 18:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:Looks like you still need to work on that last 1%, Sir. Come on, apologize and be done with it. (We do heartily thank you for your Wikification efforts, though.) – [[User:Quadell|Quadell]] ([[User_talk:Quadell|talk]]) ([[Special:Random|random]]) 18:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

* I think the correct response here is "feh." Or maybe "pish." It's incredibly lame to go running to teacher over something so trivial. [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 18:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Was it as much as six minutes. Ah I'll have to be more efficient in future. Larry my son it ain't nothing personal but I just dont know why you didn't fix it - it was a 1 minute edit max and certainly not worth a fuss over. Thankyou for creating the article 20:25, 10 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Blofeld of SPECTRE|Blofeld of SPECTRE]] ([[User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Blofeld of SPECTRE|contribs]]) {{{2|}}} 

== [[User:Salom Khalitun]] permanently disrupts his RfC ==

{{resolved|Salom Khalitun blocked [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 19:05, 10 September 2007 (UTC)}}
We are currently preparing a user conduct RfC at [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Salom Khalitun]]. The subject of the RfC is permanently disrupting the process by adding his POV (usually in bold) to inappropriate sections. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Salom_Khalitun&action=history the history] and in particular e.g. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_comment%2FSalom_Khalitun&diff=156958534&oldid=156958061], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_comment%2FSalom_Khalitun&diff=156957579&oldid=156956446]. I've informed him about the process [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASalom_Khalitun&diff=156957807&oldid=156943351 here], but he [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Salom_Khalitun&diff=next&oldid=156957807 rejects my suggestion]. Can some uninvolved admin please take proper steps (warning, temporary blocking) so that the RfC can be prepared? Thanks. --[[User:Stephan Schulz|Stephan Schulz]] 17:16, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:Reviewing his contributions, I've blocked him indefinitely. He's been nothing but disruptive, ceaselessly attacked other editors, trolled controversial talk pages, focused on other editors' ethnicity, and generally lacks any positive impact that I've seen. There is also a question in my mind as to whether he's truly a new user, but that's neither here nor there - his behavior alone is enough. I appreciate your willingness to go through the RfC process - if it reaches completion and there's a feeling that he should be unblocked, or if other admins disagree with this block, then he could be unblocked, but for now at the very least the RfC can proceed in peace. If there's no strong feeling that he should be unblocked, it may be superfluous. '''[[User:MastCell|MastCell]]''' [[User Talk:MastCell|Talk]] 17:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::* Good move. I'd been watching from a distance and he seemed like one of the recently banned neo-Nazi users pretending to be Iranian. [[User:The Behnam|The Behnam]] 17:54, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::* Good call, I think. The RfC is now in reasonable shape, too. --[[User:Stephan Schulz|Stephan Schulz]] 18:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I believe it's a sockpuppet account, and I believe I know who the puppeteer is, but it's somewhat irrelevant - I can't prove it, and he's done more than enough to warrant an indefinite block even without that piece of the puzzle. '''[[User:MastCell|MastCell]]''' [[User Talk:MastCell|Talk]] 17:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Given his response to the block [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASalom_Khalitun&diff=156979840&oldid=156962506 here], I have to say I'm not going to lose any sleep over this one. The RfC could probably be wrapped up. '''[[User:MastCell|MastCell]]''' [[User Talk:MastCell|Talk]] 19:07, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Endorse block, exit Jew-hating troll. We don't need to keep people like this around. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 19:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::Fully endorse indefinite block. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 20:37, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::This is why we keep Guy around. [[User:SheffieldSteel|Sheffield Steel]][[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|talkers]][[Special:contributions/SheffieldSteel|stalkers]] 21:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== Repeated Personal Attacks report and article semi-block request ==

I would like to report [[User:PIO]] for his repeated attacks against both me as well as Users [[User:No.13|No.13]] and [[User:Kubura|Kubura]]. The complication (I hope someone can resolve) arises here: the user in question is apparently experiencing ''"technical difficulties"'' so he uses an IP, however he signs his edits (with PIO), and it is unmistakeably obvious (due to the identical, rather shaky grammar as well as my experiences with the user) that this is indeed the person he claims to be. The best example's of his attacks are [[User talk:Giovanni Giove|here]] (in Italian, but still obvious), and [[Talk:Istrian exodus|here]]. I have warned him repeatedly, both on his IP and registered talkpages, he, of course, deleted all the warnings. The user is also suspected of sockpuppetry, and apparently thinks he can get away with murder if it is done in the Italian language. 

Another matter, the extremely controversial article, [[Istrian exodus]], has been in the past prudently shielded against unregistered users by Admins. This protection apparently expired recently and the article has become a verotable battleground of edit-warring. I request that the semi-block be returned so that this infinate conflict can ''finally'' end. [[User:DIREKTOR|DIREKTOR]] 18:20, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:As best I can tell he's suggesting that several other editors "need to see a psychiatrist," which isn't in keeping with the atmosphere we're trying to promote here. Your own comments leave much to be desired as well[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APIO&diff=147561013&oldid=147505308]. [[User:Raymond arritt|Raymond Arritt]] 20:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I am aware of that, however, this user has infringed upon even the low standards of decency that are kept in the unending edit war between Croatian and Italian users. In his post on [[User talk:Giovanni Giove|Giovanni Giove's talkpage]] he also calls me (and others) an idiot and "mentally disturbed", he also incessantly calls me communist. I do not mean to be pretentious, but if these are not textbook personal attacks, I do not know what is. I believe at least ''some'' action is warranted. [[User:DIREKTOR|DIREKTOR]] 08:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/64.131.205.111 ==

Could someone with a rollback tool please rollback this editor's canvassing? I'd appreciate it. Thanks. It appears this may be a banned user, given the block history. [[User:The Evil Spartan|The Evil Spartan]] 19:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
*Per [[User talk:Marine 69-71/Archive 16#Agreement]], that's [[User:YoSoyGuapo]]. --[[User:Jpgordon|jpgordon]][[User talk:Jpgordon|∇∆∇∆]] 19:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:*Thanks for the note. I wonder if not canvassing using sockpuppetry was part of the agreement. In any case, the canvassing is still there. Twinkle doesn't work on the library computers, so some help would be nice. [[User:The Evil Spartan|The Evil Spartan]] 21:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== insulting disruptions from RookZERO ==

[[User:RookZERO]], who has just returned from a weeklong block, is immediately diving right back into his continual non-stop edit-warring on many Scientology-related articles at once, including [[Scientology and democracy]] and [[David Miscavige]], a perennial [[WP:BLP]] problem. He does almost zero talk page posting, and his edit summaries are still almost uniformly insulting despite warnings from multiple editors to knock it off. A glance at edit summaries on his [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/RookZERO contribs page]
shows a long-term pattern of calling anyone who disagrees with him a "cult vandal":

*'''"Member of a known cult vandalize the article, by deleting well cited and directly relavent information which does not suit the cult POV"''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Miscavige&diff=prev&oldid=156993331] (he is referring to ''me'' here, which I find grossly offensive)
* '''"restored cited material deleted by cult vandal"''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Miscavige&diff=prev&oldid=156986313]
* '''"restored categories deleted by cult vandal" '''[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Thriving_Cult_of_Greed_and_Power&diff=prev&oldid=156987000]
* '''"your repeated deletions of cited material that does not fit the cult POV"''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scientology_and_democracy&diff=prev&oldid=156986149]
* '''"restored article defaced by cult vandalism"''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Scientology&diff=prev&oldid=155302611]
* '''"classical "censorship by vandal" - deleting relevent links for no reason beyond that they don't suit the cult POV"''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=L._Ron_Hubbard&diff=prev&oldid=155247575]

This relentless and obnoxious belligerence that Scientology is definitively a "cult" and that anyone who reverts his edits must be part of that "cult", makes him impossible to reason with and work with (literally, because he rarely discusses edits outside of his summaries). The Scientology articles are problematic enough without this person's ongoing disruption. [[User:Wikipediatrix|wikipediatrix]] 19:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:I have indef blocked as a SPA. I would welcome admin review, as I would some other admins help with requests on Scientology related matters. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:08, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::I'm not sure that SPA is totally accurate; user appears to also be interested in martial arts, where he makes much more reasonable edits. However, he doesn't seem to have learned to control his feelings about Scientology during his block. -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]] ([[User talk:FisherQueen|Talk]]) 21:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Yup, I agree I was hasty with the SPA accusation and apologized for it on their talkpage. I also commented that if they were to agree either not edit Scientology or to get consensus for their proposed edits before doing so that the tariff could be reduced. I would still like a review of the tariff anyway. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I'm far less concerned about whether he's a SPA as I am about editwarring with no real explanation, insulting and libelous comments like calling another editor a "member of a known cult" and crying "censorship" when his edits are reverted by multiple editors. [[User:Wikipediatrix|wikipediatrix]] 21:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::I'm concerned that I do things properly. I believe I was right to block indefinitely for the continuing disruption, right to suggest that if the editor were to stop the disruptive editing then the block could be lifted or reduced, and right to request review of my actions.
:::::Blocks are preventative. If the user agrees not to edit disruptively and gets unblocked then Wikipedia wins. Indefinite is a potentially long time, and most everyone deserves a chance. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::: Being one of the editors who was unfairly at the receiving end of his slanderous accusations, you might understand why it makes little or no difference to me whether he shapes up in the future or not. His hateful and slanderous accusations already made will still remain in print, on the internet, in the Wikipedia system and all its mirrors for all time now, and in this sense ''he'' wins and gaming the system wins, ''not'' Wikipedia. The long-recurring pattern of blocks for his behavior also suggests that any action would indeed be preventative at this point, not punitive. [[User:Wikipediatrix|wikipediatrix]] 23:55, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::: I am a sysop on Wikipedia, not for wikipediatrix. I act for what I understand to be best for WP, which involves stopping attacks on the edits and characters of WP editors and attempting to resolve disputes, and to encourage good editing.
::::::: As mentioned, I would be grateful if other admins were also to review complaints in respect of Scientology related matters. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 20:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Strongly disagree with the SPA block. A quick [http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=RookZERO&site=en.wikipedia.org glance] at RookZERO's edit history proves that he is not an SPA. That said, wikipediatrix is right to be concerned about his problematic behavior. I really don't like to think of AN/I as indefblock-on-demand for established users, this situation requires a more delicate approach like [[WP:DR]] or [[WP:CSN]]. ˉˉ[[User:Anetode|'''anetode''']][[User_talk:Anetode|╦╩]] 18:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I concur, upon review, that this is not a SPA account - but it is one that is disruptive with regard to articles relating to a particular subject matter. As it is I have explained to RookZERO that it was his immediate resumption of editing in the same manner that incurred his previous block that provided me with the reason for an indefinite tariff. It is understood that indefinite does not mean forever, but if anyone wants (me) to amend the tariff now then I am happy for it to happen. However, I don't want an editor to be able to wait out a block and then resume the same practices as before - it doesn't gain Wikipedia. I would like to see some progress in getting the editor to understand why their conduct was unacceptable, and why any repeat will not be tolerated. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 20:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree that this editor could be a candidate for a topic ban if he/she agrees to enter formal mentorship. And with respect to Wikipediatrix, a good number of editors have one or two hot buttons that they're better off avoiding. If I'd put my energies into [[9/11]] or [[World Trade Center]] I doubt I would have gotten sysopped. [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 03:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Urgent request - deletion of article needed per [[WP:BLP]] ==

I've already placed a notice at [[WP:BLP/N]]: [[Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Mark_Kruzan]]. The [[Mark_Kruzan]] page is clearly an attack article written by someone who is in a lawsuit against this person (said so directly on page, and confirmed on talk page by another editor). Article was even worse before someone removed the libel, and has already been deleted twice. Worse, ''I cannot edit it because the page is a protected title''. [[User:The Evil Spartan|The Evil Spartan]] 20:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Gone. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 20:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::I'm not sure how it was protected, yet editable. It was added to the protected titles list immediately after deletion (18:09) but was recreated well after that. If I had to guess, I would say it was probably due to caching issues. It should now be completely protected from recreation. [[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]]''[[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''Z-'''man]]'' 20:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
== Death threat ==

The anon ip [[Special:Contributions/69.19.14.38]] has just been blocked for vandalism for 24 hours.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:69.19.14.38 block log] Personally i think he should have a longer block due to the death threat shown per [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sergiogr&diff=prev&oldid=156987073 this diff]. I think this was a quite serious threat and should be dealt with before he returns. Thanks. [[User:Woodym555|Woodym555]] 20:23, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:: I agree! This isn't just 24-hour block material, this is super serious. [[User:Wikipediatrix|wikipediatrix]] 20:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::: No wonder the IP did a death threat and it is a serious problem!! [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 20:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::This appears to be related to a now-blocked registered user who was vandalizing and trolling earlier. I think we need a checkuser to see if there are any more registered accounts out of this IP. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 20:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::Brad, who do you think it was? [[User:Georgewilliamherbert|Georgewilliamherbert]] 20:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I indef-blocked. (That's what we do just for ''legal'' threats, and this was much worse.) Yeah, it looked as credible as an online death threat can be. I'm 99% sure he was blowing smoke, but that's no excuse. – [[User:Quadell|Quadell]] ([[User_talk:Quadell|talk]]) ([[Special:Random|random]]) 20:36, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:I tagged the talk page with the indefblockedip tag and explained a bit. You guys only beat me to the indef block by about 30 sec. [[User:Georgewilliamherbert|Georgewilliamherbert]] 20:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::Its a dynamic IP, we probably should not be blocking it indef. I shortened the block to one month. I won't complain if someone wants to extend it though. [[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]]''[[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''Z-'''man]]'' 20:43, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
: He's asked to be unblocked, claiming his password was stolen. Er, since when has one needed a password to edit anonymously? Can't sleep, clown will eat me referred him to the unblock mailing list, but I doubt he'll get satisfaction there. -- [[User:Llywrch|llywrch]] 20:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Jon Awbrey ==

{{userlinks|Jon Awbrey}} is back - if indeed he ever truly went away ([[:Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Jon Awbrey]]). Watchlisting {{la|Charles Peirce}} is probably worthwhile. [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 20:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::That damned user is back once again. Any comments? [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 20:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[Kamau Kambon]] ==

{{resolved}}
I think a Wiki authority should look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kamau_Kambon&diff=156987261&oldid=156980875 Reggin1234's edits at the Kamau Kambon article]. He makes what looks to me like threatening behavior to Kambon. Reggin1234 states where Kambon works and suggests that "it is simply a miracle that nobody has shown up at his (Kambon's) store, Blacknificent Books, and ended his miserable life." [[User:Griot|Griot]] 20:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Hmm. All racist images now deleted and his account indef blocked for pure vandalism. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] 20:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Sheesh! Is there something in the water today? – [[User:Quadell|Quadell]] ([[User_talk:Quadell|talk]]) ([[Special:Random|random]]) 20:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Oh my god, I am not sure. [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 20:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::All recent libel revisions by Reggin and an IP have been removed from the history. [[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]]''[[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''Z-'''man]]'' 20:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Y'all missed one: [[:Image:Kamdon.jpg]]. Please nail it. [[User:The Evil Spartan|The Evil Spartan]] 22:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Done. [[User:Fvasconcellos|Fvasconcellos]] ([[User talk:Fvasconcellos|t]]·[[Special:Contributions/Fvasconcellos|c]]) 22:13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== 24.199.99.169 ==

Editor [[Special:Contributions/24.199.99.169|24.199.99.169]] has removed comments (see contributions) including two sets from AfDs ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Pens%C3%A9e_%28Immanuel_Velikovsky_Reconsidered%29&diff=156903090&oldid=156900992 here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/David_Talbott&diff=156903254&oldid=156858537 here]), suggesting that they all belong to a banned user.

The last set of removals is suspicious in that one anonymous user votes '''keep''', the other '''delete''', which may not be consistent with a single invididual. [[Special:Contributions/24.199.99.169|24.199.99.169]] appears to have made some investigations, one of which appears to result in a "[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets&diff=156629398&oldid=156626261 no case]".

Although it may be right to remove contributions from known sockpuppets, to remove those only on suspicion and without due process, seems to be the start of a slippery slope. [[Wikipedia:Welcome anonymous editing|Wikipedia welcomes anonymous editing]], even [[m:Editing_with_Tor|Editing with Tor]]. This contribution is from a Tor Proxy to protect my anonymity [[User:68.148.109.58|68.148.109.58]] 20:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== Sandbox chat-room in bottom margine... ==

While exploring WP Sandbox yesterday I discovered the picture of a nude woman with some commentary. After requeting deletion I continued to the word game, then returned to Sandbox. This time there was commentary about the picture and possibly about its removal, which was quickly erased as soon as I added a comment. The point is: the comments appeared in the ''bottom margin'' of the page, NOT in the text box! When I attempted to report the problem on the Sandbox discussion page the material was very speedily deleted, nor could I find any record of it in the History.

Since then I tried to find someone to report the incident to, but coming from WV I asked for a Custodian; Tourskin refered me to Adminostrators. Please advise. Thank you, [[User:Shir-El too|Shir-El too]] 21:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Content added to the sandbox appears below the "block" of instructions. The edits you mention are still in the history ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&diff=prev&oldid=156839626 here, for instance]). As for the picture, it has encyclopedic value, and [[WP:CENSOR|Wikipedia is not censored]]. That's probably why your edits were reverted—featuring a nude subject is not really a valid reason for deleting an image; if it is used for vandalism or disparaging to the subject, that's another story. [[User:Fvasconcellos|Fvasconcellos]] ([[User talk:Fvasconcellos|t]]·[[Special:Contributions/Fvasconcellos|c]]) 22:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:: Thank you; will try not to jump the gun again (could it be called 'Newbie Blues'? ;-) [[User:Shir-El too|Shir-El too]] 13:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Calling transclusion experts ==

I am calling for a transclusion expert.

There is a template, [[:Template:Combatant Status Review Tribunal trailer image and caption]], that another wikipedian thinks has text that violates [[WP:NPOV]].

They placed an {{tl|npov}} tag on the template -- which is kind of a problem

When the template is transcluded there is a box in the caption field on each article where it is transcluded. However, when one clicks on the button that tells interested readers where they can find the discussion about the POV concern they get the article's talk page, not the template's talk page.

I think the discussion of concerns as to whether the template has a POV problem should occur on the [[:Template talk:Combatant Status Review Tribunal trailer image and caption]] -- not scattered all over all kind of the article's talk pages.

Would it be possible for someone to hack a special version of the {{tl|npov}} tag that would direct the readers interested in the discussion to the template's talk page, rather than the talk pages of the individual articles? Sorry. I don't know if this is a little bit of work, or a lot.

If it is a lot of work can someone think of another alternative? [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] 21:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:Why is this in a template in the first place? Slabs of text like this should not be presented in image captions, they should be in the article body somewhere. --[[User:Thebainer|bainer]] ([[User_talk:Thebainer|talk]]) 03:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:I agree with bainer. Although I have subst'ed the {{tl|npov}} template and modified it a bit to make it look a little less crappy in the meantime. ➪[[User_talk:HiDrNick|HiDrNick]]! 03:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

===Responsible use of tags? -- related to the above===

#When someone places a tag owner, like an {{tl|npov}} tag, what responsibility does someone have to initiate the discussion on the talk page that the tag promises interested readers?
#If someone places a tag like {{tl|npov}} on an article, but they don't follow through, and go to the talk page to leave a specific explanation of their concern, is it appropriate to leave them a request on their perosnal talk page, asking them to return to the talk page of the article where they placed the tag, and explain themselves more fully?
#If an article has a tag sitting on it, that the person who placed seems to have abandoned, that may very well be out of date, when is it appropriate to simply remove the tag?

Cheers! [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] 21:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:The last is easy; check the history to find when the tag was first placed, check contribs since to see if area concerned addressed, if so... be [[WP:BOLD|bold]]! nb. NPOV doesn't "''date''" - so check that it really has been resolved! [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 21:53, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::It seems the tag was added today. I'll try to test a few fixes in my sandbox and see if I can comeup with anything that will correct the problem.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 22:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::<nowiki>{{</nowiki>TALKPAGENAME}} seems like the parameter that is messing everything up and no matter how that parameter is fooled around with, it will always link to the talk page of the currently displayed article. The only solutions I can come up with would be to make a new template where you have to type the talk page location or modify the existing one and make it a pain to have to type the location of the talk page for every article tagged. Making a new template might be more practical. Anybody else got anything so far?[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 22:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Regarding [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]]'s questions, it seems to me that the answer to all three questions is: Use [[WP:COMMON|common sense]], and don't [[WP:EW|edit war]] over it. [[User:Od Mishehu|Od]] [[User talk:Od Mishehu|Mishehu]] 22:53, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::In regards to the first question, I would say that the person placing the tag has a responsibility to initiate the discussion, which of course would include explaining their reasons for placing it. If the person placing the tag provides no explanation after a reasonable period of time (at least a few hours, if not a day) than I would say it would be fine to remove it. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 01:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't make more sense to place the tag on the top of the template or the article where disputed text exists? Transcluding templates like npov could cause problems if it was transcluded where no NPOV violations exist. — [[User:Moe Epsilon|Moe]] [[User talk:Moe Epsilon|ε]] 03:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Stalking ==

{{resolved}}

[[User:Kalive]], an editor since January 2007, has removed the welcome template 7 days earlier and said "stop stalking me creep" ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kalive&diff=155353650&oldid=153541276 diff]). I need help with this problem. [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 22:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:The comment was just a tad [[WP:CIVIL|incivil]] but nothing that requires administrative attention. Is there something more serious to the matter that's concerning you?[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 22:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I need some help on some issues. When he/she put that message up and removed the welcome template, it was making me feel a little bit upset. [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 22:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I'm sorry this is not a serious enough issue that requires administrative attention. Though it was not very friendly of them to write a message like that, this is no cause for much discussion or disciplinary action. I was going to leave a small note about the civility policy on his page but it seems you already did that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kalive&diff=prev&oldid=157024911 yourself] just a few moments ago. So this matter is more or less resolved.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 22:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I have restored that message. If it is removed, put it back in, okay? [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 22:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::You seem to have reverted yourself. Probably a good idea, all things considered. If someone thinks you're a creep and a stalker, they just have a perception problem, that's all. – [[User:Quadell|Quadell]] ([[User_talk:Quadell|talk]]) ([[Special:Random|random]]) 01:46, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::You're right about that. [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 01:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Rock Lee vs IP ==

{{resolved}}
Hi. I'm having a bit of a problem with IP{{user|24.170.243.24}}. He's committed himself to vandalizing. [[User:Brianga|Brianga]] first came accross his [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rock_Lee&diff=157007460&oldid=156776771 unconstructive edits] on [[Rock Lee]]'s article and reverted two; Our IP friend made another two apparently [[WP:AGF|good-faith]] edits following that, which I [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rock_Lee&diff=next&oldid=157024978 reverted because they were redundant]. Since then, he has made [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rock_Lee&diff=next&oldid=157025479 two more] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rock_Lee&diff=prev&oldid=157029463 bad-faith edits] on [[Rock Lee]]'s article. When I went to place a warning message on [[User talk:24.170.243.24|his talk page]], I noticed he already had one for vandalism on [[Son Goku (Dragon Ball)]]; this was earned from four bad-faith edits. Aside from the two good-faith edits previously mentioned, this IP is a vandalism-only account which started editing today.

Regards, ''[[User talk:UC'tCM!|You Can]][[User:UC'tCM!/'|']][[Wikipedia:Editor review/You Can't See Me!|t Review Me!!!]]'' 23:08, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Blocked. next time, please report to [[WP:AIV]] (and you don't need as much detail for obvious vandalism. Also, since IPs are not accounts, they cannot be vandalism-only accounts. [[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]]''[[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''Z-'''man]]'' 23:12, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you, and sorry for the mistakes. The only noticeboard I was previously familiar with was [[WP:AN/3RR]]. I'll keep that in mind next time. Regards, ''[[User talk:UC'tCM!|You Can]][[User:UC'tCM!/'|']][[Wikipedia:Editor review/You Can't See Me!|t Review Me!!!]]'' 23:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

== Suspicion of image copyright violations ==

{{resolved}}

I'm not sure how to handle this.

[[User talk:Ravenfan4ever]] uploaded 3 images [[:Image:05356.jpg]], [[:Image:Raven04ky0.jpg]]‎ and [[:Image:Raven03xu7.jpg]]. In each of these the user asserted ownership of the image and gave permission for use in Wikipedia. The first image of the three has extended image data that indicates the copyright is held by http://www.wireimage.com/ so the assertion of ownership of the image by the user is not supported by the actual image data. I have tagged the image for deletion as a blatant copyright violation. I suspect the other 2 images are also not owned by the user but have no proof. The veracity of the user is suspect based on the first image. The images look like they were taken by a pro photographer. --[[User:NrDg|NrDg]] 23:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:No wonder that they (the pictures) could be in suspicion of [[WP:COPYVIO]]. Any comments or objections? [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 23:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::I would say ask the user on their page what the circumstances are, explain that unless they personally clicked the button on the camera, they should not upload the photo under those terms. Ask if they really took the photo. If the user does not answer or answers in a questionable way, delete the images. --[[User:B|B]] 23:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Doh! That ought to do the trick. [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 23:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Thanks for the help. I decided to effectively do what [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] suggested but used the [[WP:PUI]] procedure to accomplish it. Looks to give proper notice to user and is a formal procedure. --[[User:NrDg|NrDg]] 00:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::Mission accomplished. [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 00:46, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:Pacula]] / [[User:Ralphyde]] ==

I would like to report an ongoing edit war. It relates to the topic 'Tension Myositis Syndrome.' To review, on Sept 9, 2007, [[User:Pacula]] marked the article for deletion. This is a well established article that has been on Wikipedia since January, 2004, and has been edited and improved by many people over this time. It has many citations and has been linked to in many other articles. Then, on the same day, he began deleting all the references to this article and the citations involved, in other related articles. This left a mess of broken links and deleted citations, with nothing in the discussion pages to justify his edits. I should point out that Pacula is a games programmer, and knows nothing about the topic involved, but for some reason decided he didn't like it. As one interested in this topic, I began to try to repair the damage done. When I began to replace the deleted links and citations, trying to put the related articles back to the way they had been before his destructive edits, and not adding anything new, he quickly followed me around and deleted my repairs, calling me a "spammer." The discussion still goes on as to whether the article should be deleted or not, but Pacula continues to revert my repairs of his destructive edits. Then today, he accused me of spamming and advertising (false), of "Unwarranted pervasive linking to uncollaborated self-published work" (totally false) and threatened to block me if I continued to repair his destructive edits which I would consider vandalism. Look at his recent edits and comments and his multiple destructive edits to cited texts and links. This is censorship and vandalism in my opinion, and I would like it stopped. Thanks, [[User:Ralphyde|Ralphyde]] 21:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
:Note: moved from AN3 - seems more appropriate here. [[User:Kuru|'''Kuru''']] [[User talk:Kuru|''talk'']] 23:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

:No wonder there is an edit war. We need some administrators to stop it ASAP. [[User:Sjones23|Greg]] [[User talk:Sjones23|Jones]] [[User:Sjones23/Wikipedia contributions|II]] 00:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

(Assuming you are talking about [[Tension myositis syndrome]].) It is perfectly acceptable for Pacula to initiate this deletion discussion, no matter how long the article has been on Wikipedia. Notability is not conferred by an article's Wikipedia age, but by other external factors. As for your accusations that Pacula began deleting the references, there are only two edits to that article by Pacula among the last 50 edits: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tension_myositis_syndrome&diff=156652283&oldid=154984889 this one], in which s/he puts a CSD tag on it, and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tension_myositis_syndrome&diff=156720515&oldid=156712201 this one], in which s/he nominates it for AfD following your removal of the speedy tag. Pacula has made a few edits to [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tension myositis syndrome|the AfD]], but none of them are reverts and they are all very constructive. I'm not seeing what the issue with Pacula is, and there is certainly no 3RR violation, since s/he has only edited the article twice and they were completely acceptable edits. Nominating an article for AfD when someone has disagreed with the speedy is the right way to handle that. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 01:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:(Nice summary, Natalie!) – [[User:Quadell|Quadell]] ([[User_talk:Quadell|talk]]) ([[Special:Random|random]]) 01:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::Natalie, to see what Pacula did, you have to look at his edit history. His edits weren't all to Tension Myositis Syndrome, but to all topics that previously linked to tension myositis syndrome, of which there were many. Since he destroyed these links by systematically deleting them and various cited text, they can't be found by just looking at tension myositis syndrome but can only be seen by looking at his editing history. He made a big mess of quite a few interrelated articles having to do with chronic pain. I have tried to repair some of the damage, to get it back to the way it was before his rampage, but he has then reverted most of my repairs. Thanks, [[User:Ralphyde|Ralphyde]] 02:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

What I see in Pacula's editing history is the removal of an external link you have repeatedly added. Whether this link is used a lot on Wikipedia or not will have no bearing on the AfD for the article since being an external link in Wikipedia is not a standard of notability. However, Pacula's editing history goes back nearly 3 years so I didn't check every edit. Could you provide some diffs, Ralphyde, of where Pacula has removed cited text, removed citations, or broken a link? [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 02:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:Natalie, I don't know what you mean by diffs, but if you start with the edit history for Pacula at 15:42 on 9 September, you'll see his nomination for deletion, then in rapid order starting at 18:13 the same day, he removed the links to tension myositis syndrome from Fibromyalgia, Pain and nociception, repetitive strain injury, list of medical abbreviations, human body, chronic pain, back pain, biopsychosocial model, lumbago, carpel tunnel syndrome, TMS, low back pain, etc. When I tried to repair this damage, he then reverted all my changes and called me a "very determined spammer," when it was he who was vandalizing all the links and references based on a false idea that these links weren't legitimate. I've been a student of tension myositis syndrome, which relates to a method for curing chronic pain, for over three years, have read nine different books on it by several different authors, and it is a legitimate and important subject especially to those in chronic pain. And Pacula has continued destroying these important links in spite of my complaints to him, which he purged from his talk page. Thanks for caring, [[User:Ralphyde|Ralphyde]] 05:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:: There seem to be issues of LINKSPAMMING (which also applies to wikilinks) and OWNERSHIP going on here. (BTW, if you don't yet know what a "diff" is, please get better informed before doing much more editing. That's pretty basic knowledge you will need if you are going to engage in talk page discussions and in any conflict resolution processes.) Basically these matters are common beginner mistakes and a refusal to listen to more experienced editors (in this case Pacula) can give you a bad record here. Don't edit war. Discuss and learn. -- [[User:Fyslee|Fyslee]]/[[User talk:Fyslee|talk]] 05:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I find it helpful to link to the page in question when suggesting that someone educate themself. Ralphyde, you can learn what diffs are at [[Help:Diff]]. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 17:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Ralphyde's complaint against me is basically that I systematically removed a considerable number of links and references from various articles that pointed to the TMS article, and that much ''is'' true. I removed them because I felt that they were link spam - refering (directly or otherwise) to what I saw as an extremely non-NPOV article on a WP:Fringe subject that basically read like an advertisement for the books it used as references. Most of these references to this article/advertisement seemed barely relevent, so I thought it best if I tried to sweep up the mess as much as possible. Ralphyde's insistence on undoing the removals prompted me to place the standard series of 'advertising' user warning templates on his talk page, from which came the threats of blocking that he refers to above. These books that the TMS article uses for reference are the above-mentioned 'uncollaborated self-published works', though I realize now that Ralphyde is not the author, but merely an evangelical fan of the author's theories, making this more of a WP:SOAP spamming issue than of blatant commercial spam as I first thought. - [[User:Pacula|Pacula]] 05:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:Here's the essense of my complaint, that Pacula hastily marked an established, long standing, and important article for deletion, without any knowledge of the subject, but then, before anyone had a chance to discuss that motion, he deleted all the links to it in related articles, as well as cited text, so that people could not properly see the significance of the article, and when I tried to restore his destroyed links, he followed me around deleting them again and calling me a spammer. Marking the article for deletion was acceptable (though wrong in this case), but then rushing around destroying all the links to it to diminish its importance (i.e. destroying all the evidence) before anyone had a chance to vote on his motion and thus making it inaccessable from related articles, was '''absolutely unacceptable'''. There should have been a wait '''until the issue was decided'''. That is my point. In addition there was nothing about any 'uncollaborated self-published works' involved. This was a total red herring. [[User:Ralphyde|Ralphyde]] 17:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::Firstly, beginning a deletion discussion of this article is perfectly acceptable, regardless of how long the article has existed on Wikipedia. As to whether it's important, that's for the AfD discussion to hammer out. Secondly, removing links to this article from other articles will have ''no bearing on the AfD'', as this is ''not a way of meeting [[Wikipedia:Notability]]''. The importance or significance of an article can in no way be judged by its presence within Wikipedia - it has to come from outside. If you are worried that not enough people will participate in the deletion discussion, you may wish to list it on an appropriate noticeboard (''not'' telling people how to vote, just informing them that the discussion is taking place). So what you have here is a content dispute, and as the banner on the top of the page says, this board is not part of the dispute resolution process. Administrators have no special ability to adjudicate content disputes; please utilize one of the processes outlined at [[Wikipedia: Dispute resolution]] instead. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 17:52, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Harassment in User space. ==

[[User:Zsero]] has openly declared in past discussion that he has abandoned [[WP:AGF]] in his interactions with me. In light of this, I asked that he not make edits to my User or User_talk pages until he rescinds said abandonment. He has continued arguing in my User_talk space despite my request; this is harassment, and I request intervention against his continue posting there unless and until he rescinds his abandonment of [[WP:AGF]]. [[User:Italiavivi|Italia]][[User_talk:Italiavivi|vivi]] 03:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
: AFAIK there is no policy, guideline, or even mild suggestion, that editors own their talk pages, and can ban people from them. User talk pages exist to facilitate communication between editors, and any editor who has a legitimate comment to make to another editor, or a legitimate contribution to make to a discussion taking place on another editor's user talk page, is entitled to do so. Doing so does not constitute harassment in any sense of the word, and certainly not in the sense defined at [[WP:Harassment]]. As for AGF, it is decidedly ''not'' the case that one must continue to assume good faith in the presence of evidence to the contrary; I did AGF of Italiavivi for far longer than I needed to, but eventually the evidence to the contrary seemed to me overwhelming, and I stopped, as is clearly my right. I fail to see how that affects my right to participate in discussions taking place on his/her talk page. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 03:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Zsero, I will ask politely one more time: Please abstain from making edits to my userspace until you rescind your declared abandonment of good faith against me. [[User:Italiavivi|Italia]][[User_talk:Italiavivi|vivi]] 03:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::: No policy, guideline, or anything else, requires me to accede to such an request. I will continue to make ''reasonable and appropriate'' comments on your talk page whenever I see a legitimate cause to do so. I have not harassed you until now, and I have no intention of doing so in the future. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 03:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::I don't care if you have not harassed me until now, ''now'' is not acceptable. Please do not make edits to my User space while you continue flaunting your abandonment of good faith against me elsewhere. It is harassment to fill my User space with arguments while openly declaring your refusal to assume good faith in discussions with me. [[User:Italiavivi|Italia]][[User_talk:Italiavivi|vivi]] 03:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::: No, it isn't. And I have hardly "filled" your user space with arguments. My comments there have been few and modest. Now if I were in fact "filling your user space" or trying to do so, e.g. by posting many KB of nonsense, that ''would'' be harassment. But I've never done so, or even come within orders of magnitude of appearing to do so, so I don't know where you come off implying otherwise. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 04:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::It is generally recognized that when someone asks you to stop using their talk page, esp. in admitted cases of no AGF and no civility, the offending editor should stop. Please limit your conversation to the talk page of the article in question. Continuing to attack him on his talk page constitutes harassment (even if only he feels it's an attack, it's best to disengage.) [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 03:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::: If it's "generally recognised" it must surely be written somewhere. Where?
::: BTW in this case there is no article in question, to whose talk page I could take it; the discussion, about something that happened here on ANI, was taking place on Italiavivi's talk page, between him/her and another editor, and s/he said something that wasn't true, so I pointed it out, as is my right. I was entirely factual, and documented the truth with the relevant diffs. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 03:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::::First, above the 'until now' indicates you KNOW that your actions are taken as harrassment. beyond that, if you're going to wait till the admins block you by demanding I give you a policy citation for a common occurance here on AN/I, then good luck with that free time the block will get you. Your statement that you intend to keep editing there, despite your admission that it comes off as harassment, is a problem. but since you don't believe it, I'll step aside ,and let others get the point across. [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 03:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::: Oh my goodness. "Until now" indicates nothing of the sort. It means exactly what it says. I have never harassed Italiavivi, and I have no intention of harassing him/her, or anybody else. How you read what you do into it is beyond me. AFAIK when Italiavivi claims that declining a request not to edit a user talk page is ''per se'' harassment, s/he is using a definition of "harassment" that is peculiar to him/her. Are you really saying that you share that view? It's certainly not consistent with the definition at [[WP:Harassment]]. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 04:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you all just walk away? This seems like pointless instigation at this point, and it's definitely not helping anyone resolve their disputes. --[[User:Haemo|Haemo]] 04:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:I would love for him to walk away. I simply ask that Zsero not make edits to my User space until he rescinds his abandonment of good faith against me, nothing more. [[User:Italiavivi|Italia]][[User_talk:Italiavivi|vivi]] 04:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:: The correct response would be "I would love to walk away", not "I would love for ''him'' to walk away". And since you're the one who filed this frivolous complaint here at ANI, I can hardly walk away from that can I? You have not "asked" me not to comment on your talk page, you have demanded it, something that you have no right to do, and threatened that if I refuse you will file frivolous complaints against me, such as this one. That's hardly something I can walk away from. I don't comment on your talk page to annoy you, I do it when I have something pertinent to say. Such as this evening, when you misrepresented what another editor had done, and I pointed out the facts. That's what the talk page is for, and I have every intention of continuing to do so ''when appropriate'' and not otherwise. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 04:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Seriously, Zsero, Italia, step away from each other entirely. Zsero, stop instigating discussions with Italia where he/she does not want to discuss things with you. Italia, ignore Zsero if necessary.—[[User:Ryulong|Ryūlóng]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|竜龍]]) 04:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:Both of you should stop and rather concentrate energies on editing articles <s>accordingly to [[WP:CIVIL]]. I did see the message on [[User talk:Zsero]] in which he explicitly talks about not proceeding with good faith towards the other editor. that means trolling! [[WP:TROLL]]/[[WP:GAME]]. Just because there are gaps in certain rules in wikipedia doesn't give you the right to harass someone else's user page and more if the other party doesn't want to discuss things not related to articles but a discussion here.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AZsero&diff=157072242&oldid=157070770] plus Zsero edited over taliavivi's comments (it is considered vandalism [[WP:TALK]]). My humble advice is to just drop all this nonsense..!!--'''[[User:F3rn4nd0#|'''F3rn4nd0''']] '''[[User talk:f3rn4nd0|(Roger - Out)]] 04:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)</st>
:: Excuse me? You've got to be kidding. 1) I am explicitly '''not''' required to AGF forever; how is declaring that I've reached the point where I no longer AGF of someone "trolling" or "gaming"? 2) How have I "harassed someone else's user page"? By "gaps in certain rules in wikipedia" do you mean that I'm expected to obey rules that exist in your head and nowhere else? 3) Deleting someone's comments on my own talk page is '''not''' vandalism - where on earth did you get the idea that it is? I'm entitled to delete them just as Italiavivi is entitled to delete comments on his/her talk page. I leave comments that I consider useful and constructive, even if they're criticism directed against me. In this case I saw no point in leaving the comment up. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 07:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I'm going to consider this resolved so long as you both agree not to talk to each other on each other's user talks. How's that sound?—[[User:Ryulong|Ryūlóng]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|竜龍]]) 07:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Which is what is being asked here, is it not?—[[User:Ryulong|Ryūlóng]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|竜龍]]) 07:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
ItaliaVivi is blocked for 48 hours for (unrelated) violation of 3RR, and has announced that he leaves Wikipedia, which makes this all rather moot. [[User:Fram|Fram]] 09:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
===I'm seeing a lot of this===
I've seen quite a lot of people lately who think they can "ban" other people they dislike from their talk page. It may sound like stating the obvious, but perhaps [[WP:UP]] needs to point out that they can't do that? [[User_talk:Radiant!|>Radiant<]] 09:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Might be a good idea. [[User:Viridae|Viridae]][[User talk:Viridae|Talk]] 09:26, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Certainly true, but it's often wise to honor a request to stay away. [[User:Tom harrison|Tom Harrison]] [[User talk:Tom harrison|Talk]] 11:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::I'd support a balanced edit to UP, once which explicitly states taht 'while a user's request that you not continue using his talk page is not enforcable because it constitutes a WO:OWN violation, it's often wise to be CIVIL and disengage, at least for a brief period (such as a day, or weekend), to allow both parties to cool off and return their focus to the content dispute.', thus making it clear that it's good manners, but not policy, to stop when asked. [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 11:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I personally consider it ''really bad form'' to post to someone's talk page if they make it clear they don't want any communication with you. I don't think there should be a policy about it either way. We shouldn't encourage Wikilawyering, but we shouldn't encourage [[WP:DICK]] violations either. – [[User:Quadell|Quadell]] ([[User_talk:Quadell|talk]]) ([[Special:Random|random]]) 13:20, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
*On the contrary, I consider it ''really childish'' to tell people "whatever you have to say, I don't want to hear it". It's the wiki equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going "la la la la" at the top of your voice. [[User_talk:Radiant!|>Radiant<]] 13:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
**I understand the concerns about harassment and incivility, but I think these can be dealt with by other means than talk page embargoes. These include comments by uninvolved admins, the dispute resolution process, and (in extreme cases) admin actions. — Carl ([[User:CBM|CBM]] · [[User talk:CBM|talk]]) 13:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
*Agreed. As a policy, it could be gamed and used to justify harassment. Radiant's stance would make for a mighty fine essay though. ˉˉ[[User:Anetode|'''anetode''']][[User_talk:Anetode|╦╩]] 18:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
***Perhaps we could add Radiant's note to [[WP:UP]], but also bring up [[WP:HARRASS]] on the page and specifically state that as an exception, or something. ''[[User talk:UC'tCM!|You Can]][[User:UC'tCM!/'|']][[Wikipedia:Editor review/You Can't See Me!|t Review Me!!!]]'' 01:24, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== User:Codyfinke6 ==

Hello,
This is a repost, The user Codyfink6 is making these edits again, this time on the [[Wendy's]] article. Could some on please take the time to block him? The complaints are piling up on his talk page. I do not believe he is a sock puppet, but he causing issues that are disrupting several articles. - [[User:Jerem43|Jerem43]] 05:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:I don't udnerstand why this User has not been blocked. Could someone please explain? [[User:Corvus cornix|Corvus cornix]] 15:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:: Just a note, since my original post on the 7th: According to his contribution page, he has made approximately 8 edits, only one of which was productive and not reverted. There is one article that he has created that has been tagged for speedy deletion as non-notable and one that was deleted for the same reason. Again he has been requested to verify all edits and ignored the requests. - [[User:Jerem43|Jerem43]] 02:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

===Original post===
I made a request earlier this week that this user be blocked (again) as that he is consistently making disruptive/unproductive edits and/or creating articles that are non-notable (I cannot find the archive of it). He has been requested to stop by myself and at least 10 other editors or administrators, yet he ignores our requests and continues to do so.

He has created at least nine non-notable articles that met the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G11|criteria for speedy deletion]], two of which he tried to recreate several times. Several articles that he did create, he was asked to modify so that they met the criteria of a notable article, yet he did not and another editor had to. When he does create an article, it is usually just a sentence or two long, does not cite any sources and he fails to place a <nowiki>{{stub}}</nowiki> designation.

Here are some articles he has made disruptive/unproductive edits to:
* [[Burger King products]] - keeps putting incorrect or conflicting data in;
* [[List of CBS slogans]] - created an article that was basically a duplicate of the main article;
* [[CBS Records]] - put incorrect or conflicting data in;
* [[Dice Game (pricing game)]] - deleted a section of the article without stating reasons why, was requested to do so and did not. The edits to the article were were reverted and cited for vandalism on it as a result;
* [[:Farmer Jack]] - deleted a section of the article without stating reasons why, was requested to do so and did not. The edits to the article were were reverted and cited for vandalism on it as a result;
* [[WLS-TV]] - put incorrect or conflicting data in;
* [[WNYW]] - keeps modifying their slogans with incorrect data.

Mr. Finke will not respond to any posts on his [[User Talk:Codyfinke6|talk page]], so this has been very frustrating to many editors who have tried to engage him in a productive dialog to help him understand what he has been doing violates the policies of Wikipedia. He has already been blocked once and I believe that he needs to be blocked again, for at least 30 days if possible. This will hopefully get the point across that he has been causing harm to this community.

[[User:Jerem43|Jerem43]] 16:51, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

:This sounds strongly like [[User:MascotGuy]]. [[User:Corvus cornix|Corvus cornix]] 17:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
::Has this user made any constructive edits? If it's not something from the sock drawer (as suggested by Corvus) maybe it's time for a [[WP:CSN]]? --[[User:Rocksanddirt|Rocksanddirt]] 18:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:::I am afraid that any sanctions against him would be ignored as that he does not read his talk page. ---[[User:Jerem43|Jerem43]] 19:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

::::Then why not just block him like all of his other sockpuppets? [[User:Corvus cornix|Corvus cornix]] 20:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

::::I am not so sure this guy is a sock puppet, but he is being disruptive. Could an administrator please put a block on him for a 30 day period, as the first one seemed to be completely ignored. - [[User:Jerem43|Jerem43]] 02:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

== Revert warring on today's featured article ==

Two editors have been reverting like mad on today's featured article, [[Fightin' Texas Aggie Band]]. I've blocked both of them for 12 hours, but since this is my first 3RR enforcement, feel free to adjust length or overturn as needed. [[User:Resurgent insurgent|Resurgent insurgent]] 05:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Thanks for bringing this up here yourself and hopefully and admin can soon have a second look. Let me just note that it is very unfortunate that we arrive at a situation where the author of a featured article gets blocked for multiple reversions on 'his' article the same day that it gets posted and can't help feeling that we should have been more vigilant / helpful in the first place --[[User:Tikiwont|Tikiwont]] 15:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::The editor in question claims he was reverting vandalism, and a cursory review of the diffs seems to bear that out. Please keep in mind that obvious vandalism is an exception to the 3RR policy. When an article is a TFA, it's a magnet for vandalism, and we need to keep that in mind and approach things a little more carefully. I think you owed the author a bit of an explanation when you blocked, telling him why the vandalism exception didn't apply in this case, assuming you believed that it didn't. '''[[User:Akradecki|AKRadecki]]'''[[User_talk:Akradecki|Speaketh]] 19:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Err Resurgent insurgent's block doesn't show up in the logs at all. The users in question are [[User:BQZip01]] and [[User:ThreeE]], for the record (took me 10 minutes to find out who he was talking about :P). The two user block logs in question: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:BQZip01] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:ThreeE]. Ignoring that confusing note, 3rr was indeed broken, and it was not vandalism. One editor removed a bit of unsourced information in the lead and it was reinserted back and forth, so the block was appropriate. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fightin%27_Texas_Aggie_Band&diff=prev&oldid=157091000] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fightin%27_Texas_Aggie_Band&diff=prev&oldid=157087772] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fightin%27_Texas_Aggie_Band&diff=prev&oldid=157081412] [[User:Cowman109|Cowman109]][[User talk:Cowman109|Talk]] 20:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Two bands called [[The Need]] ==

Currently, Wikipedia has an article called [[The Need]] about a late '90s queercore band from Washington. Recently, however, the article has been getting edits that change the subject entirely, to a different band located in California that happens to have the same name. Starting with [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Need&diff=150369593&oldid=132776302 this] edit on August 10th, several users and IPs have been changing the article to the same version, all discussing this other band. Oddly enough, all the editor names are similar to the lead singer of the band, Garrett McArthur. Gee, wonder who it could be...

[[Special:Contributions/Garrettmcarthur|Garrettmcarthur]] - only edits have been to [[The Need]] 
[[Special:Contributions/72.129.69.164|72.129.69.164]] - only edits have been to [[The Need]] 
[[Special:Contributions/Wgmcarthur|Wgmcarthur]] - edited [[The Need]], also created page at [[Garrett McArthur]] 

After the IP vandalized following a suggestion I left on Wgmcarthur's [[User talk: Wgmcarthur|talk page]] to just create a new article, I got a bit fed up. I've requested semi-protection for the page, but I'd also like to see the two editors and the IP blocked as single-purpose accounts. [[Garrett McArthur]] probably ought to be deleted as well. Thanks. [[User:GlassCobra|GlassCobra]] ([[User talk:GlassCobra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GlassCobra|contribs]]) 06:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Would either band even qualify per our [[WP:MUSIC|notability]] criteria?—[[User:Ryulong|Ryūlóng]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|竜龍]]) 06:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:: The original one is marginal - probably passes WP:MUSIC per their touring etc. The "new" one almost certainly doesn't - and [[Garrett McArthur]] is definitely A7 and I've speedily deleted it. [[User talk:EliminatorJR|ELIMINATORJR]] 06:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::The California band definitely doesn't (and by extension, neither does its singer). To be honest, though, I haven't read the original article too closely, so I can't vouch for its notability either way. I'd be okay if someone wants to tag the whole thing for deletion. [[User:GlassCobra|GlassCobra]] ([[User talk:GlassCobra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GlassCobra|contribs]]) 06:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:New development: Semi-protection has been declined. I'd still like the users in question to be blocked, though. [[User:GlassCobra|GlassCobra]] ([[User talk:GlassCobra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GlassCobra|contribs]]) 06:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::The promoter (self promoter?) adding the new California band needs a stern warngin at the least. His article's entirely CRYSTAL, as it predicts where we might someday hear their music, based on the fact that they know a producer who worked with some big names. The other band, int he older version of the article, has a passing notability, but not much more. However, that the older article has mild notability, and the new one has nothing but maybes, I'd support a long talking to or a short block if the edits persist. [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 20:52, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Subpage madness ==

Some (if not all) of the subpages created by [[User:Efansay]] need to go. I wasn't sure which, so I'm bringing it up here. As a note: this user has very few edits to the encyclopedia (and has been told about it). [[User:RobJ1981|RobJ1981]] 06:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixindex&from=User%3AEfansay&namespace=0 for evidence]. [[User:Zscout370]] [[User_talk:Zscout370|(Return Fire)]] 06:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
**I've gotten rid of nearly all of them except for a few that I think are a proper use. I've also given this user a stern warning.—[[User:Ryulong|Ryūlóng]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|竜龍]]) 07:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
**[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=Ryulong&page= Current evidence].—[[User:Ryulong|Ryūlóng]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|竜龍]]) 07:05, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Recourse for being falsely attributed to broad ranges of IP addresses. ==

[[User:Hu12]] is attributing past edits made from an entire range of a large ISP to myself, including many which are literally years old and pre-date my introduction to Wikipedia. He insists on attributing this range of IP addresses to me, and I would like to know what kind of recourse exists for these types of claims.

The IP range in question has made over [http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/f.php?ip1=206.255.0.0-255.255&ip2=&ip3=&ip4= 7,000 edits] total according to Wikipedia Scanner. There is inevitably overlap when using such a large ISP, and I will not be held accountable for every edit from my geographical region in the past three years (especially when I have only known of Wikipedia for one year). Numerous editors have already raised concerns about the compliance of Hu's page with [[WP:RFC]]'s guidelines (especially the lack of prior resolution attempts, mischaracterized diffs, and certification by completely unrelated users), but this most recent development (attributing an entire IP range to myself) is of serious concern to me.

I am also requesting serious independent review of Hu12's RfC against me. I do not believe Hu's page abides by the guidelines at [[WP:RFC]], which reads:

:From [[WP:RFC]]: ''"The evidence, preferably in the form of diffs, '''should not simply show the dispute itself''', but should show attempts to find a resolution or compromise. '''The users certifying the dispute must be the same users who were involved in the attempt to resolve it.'''"''

What is going on at Hu's RfC is getting out of hand; it is exactly what [[WP:RFC]] says ''is not'' the way to approach things. It is not a page which complies with [[WP:RFC]], it is not organized, and it is making accusations which I have no apparent recourse against (attributing large IP ranges to me). Hu is placing [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AItaliavivi&diff=157106630&oldid=157071797 placing] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AItaliavivi&diff=157107601&oldid=157106630 warnings] on my talk page for contesting his use of IPs which are not my own; please, I ask that others here take the time to review what's going on at [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Italiavivi]] and tell me if it is what [[WP:RFC]] really prescribes. I am open to conflict resolution, but this RfC has been nothing ''but'' conflict, with no resolution or good faith whatsoever. [[User:Italiavivi|Italia]][[User_talk:Italiavivi|vivi]] 07:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:Will another sysop please prevent this user from removing content from his own RFC? The content that is being repdedly removed is a part of the origional filed Sept 2cnd. thank you--[[User:Hu12|Hu12]] 07:46, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::I politely as possible asked Hu to stop attributing these IP addresses to me, and Hu responded by claiming that my request was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AHu12&diff=157108610&oldid=157107490 threats and personal attack]," for god's sake! Hu has described me as "irredeemable" and expressed a desire to "firmly remove me from the project." This individual has no interest whatsoever in resolving anything with me, and shows no concern about his falsel, sweeping, indiscriminate attribution of IP addresses to myself. What kind of recourse exists for me here? How is this dispute resolution, and how is this pinning of IP addresses to me not [[WP:HARASS|harassment]]? [[User:Italiavivi|Italia]][[User_talk:Italiavivi|vivi]] 07:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::This is precisely the disruptive behaviour that has got you into an RfC in the first place. During the whole process you have denied that there is a problem with your behaviour but it is obvious that you now need to open your eyes and listen to what the community is saying. There's nothing wrong with how the RfC is formed, it's a lot better than most - you now need to accept what other users have to say. [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''Ryan Postlethwaite''']] 07:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Half your malformed RfC's responses are editors expressing skepticism about the behavior and merits of those who created the RfC against me, and there are suspected sockpuppets endorsing your particular section of the page. You are not a spokesperson for the "community," and you are not an outside view on the compliance of your own page. [[User:Italiavivi|Italia]][[User_talk:Italiavivi|vivi]] 08:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::Same pages, same range. [[WP:DUCK|Quack quack]]. CU would say "sockpuppet. And yes, whole ranges have been blocked for one disruptive user, e.g. Manchester vandal. '''[[User:Sceptre|Will]]''' ([[User talk:Sceptre|talk]]) 08:10, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::Can we forgo with the taunting? Also, what's Hu using {{tl|uw-delete2}}? Can he not express his own thoughts? The use of templates to communicate in such instances is not acceptable. Nor is revert warring in one's own RfC, of course. [[User:El C|El_C]] 09:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Many users feel that standardized templates are the best way to keep things from getting personal. See, for example, [[WP:TTR]]. I don't agree with that essay, but simply point it out to illustrate the opposing view. -- [[User talk:Satori Son|Satori Son]] 12:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::::I'm sorry but that is not ''many users'', it is basically a provocation. [[User:El C|El_C]] 14:26, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::I didn't say ''most'' users, I said ''many'', and I stand by that. If you look at the debate going on at [[Wikipedia talk:Don't template the regulars]], I hope you'll agree there is a lack of consensus on this particular issue. Just for the record, I agree with you that it is almost always better to use a personalized message when dealing with a long-time user. I'm just saying not everyone else feels the same way. -- [[User talk:Satori Son|Satori Son]] 15:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
ItaliaVivi is blocked for 48 hours for (seriously) violating 3RR, and has announced that he leaves Wikipedia. [[User:Fram|Fram]] 09:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:I have blocked Hu12 for 24 hours for ''also'' exceeding three reverts in this conflict. The first removals of content, and edit warring to keep them out, from the RFC were actually ''Hu12'' repeatedly removing ''Italiaviva's'' comments. Both users also took part in the subsequent edit war with Italiaviva similarly attempting to remove content added by Hu12. While both clearly exceeded three reverts, and were aware of the prohibition against doing so, Hu12 (unlike Italiavivi) has not previously been blocked for this and thus I gave a shorter block period. --[[User talk:CBDunkerson|CBD]] 12:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Good call. Fram supposedly failed to check both sides. -- [[User:FayssalF|FayssalF]] - [[User talk:FayssalF|''Wiki me up''® ]] 15:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Yep, I only checked what happened at the time I saw the dits (through recent changes), and those were way too many reverts by ItaliaVivi: I also did not consider the reinsertioon of Hu12 of his own comments as reverts, as removing other people's comments is vandalism, and reverting vandalism is allowed. However, I should havce noticed the other edits (reverts) by Hu12, which also deserved a block. Thanks for keeping the balance here and looking at both sides a bit more carefully. [[User:Fram|Fram]] 15:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::It is just normal as contributors in general tend to consider admins as a good example and therefore believe in advance that ''we'' (admins) do respect policy more than anyone. This is waht happens. -- [[User:FayssalF|FayssalF]] - [[User talk:FayssalF|''Wiki me up''® ]] 15:26, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::: Check again, Fram - you were right the first time. As you say, the reinsertion of the IPs doesn't count for 3RR, because it was reverting vandalism. And the other edits you refer to are not reverts at all, they're moving comments to the talk page, where they belong. It seems to me that Hu12's block was mistaken and should be lifted immediately. -- [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 20:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::So... Hu12's removal of Italiavivi's statements that two of the IP addresses listed were not his was 'proper', but Italiavivi's subsequent removal of those two IP addresses (after his disavowal of them had been taken away) was 'vandalism'? No, I don't think so. Vandalism is a deliberate act to damage or disrupt the encyclopedia. Italiavivi only removed those IP addresses from the page '''after''' his statements that they were not his had been taken off. He clearly was not committing 'vandalism', but rather removing the content he objected to since he was not being allowed to show that objection on the page. The vandalism policy does not prohibit removal of materials from RFC pages (else Hu12's removals would have been 'vandalism' too). There is a general prohibition against rewriting the comments of others to change their meaning, but that is not in issue here as Italiavivi left the general claims about IP use and various other IP addresses in place - only removing the two that he was disputing on the talk page. That's a content dispute. As was the repeated removal of Italiavivi's comments from the page. --[[User talk:CBDunkerson|CBD]] 21:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Remark: [[User:Hu12]] is waiting for a review of his block: [[user talk:Hu12]]. --[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] [[User_Talk:Beetstra|T]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|C]] 20:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Well, [[WP:ADMIN|admin]] got the "Hu thought he was doing the right thing, and since blocks are preventitive, not punitive, there is no reason for this to continue, now that he has been informed." The editor got no such treatment. Keep up the ''good'' work admins. -- [[User:FayssalF|FayssalF]] - [[User talk:FayssalF|''Wiki me up''® ]] 02:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::: The cases are not even remotely similar. Italiavivi was removing content from the RFC, on the grounds that s/he claimed it wasn't true. It's to be expected that the subject of the RFC will deny some or all of the accusations, and that's why s/he has a space to put his/her side of the story. That was the proper place to claim that those IPs were somebody else, and offer whatever proof s/he could. Instead s/he simply asserted that it wasn't true, and edited the material out. That's not acceptable, and s/he must have known it.
::: What Hu did, on the other hand, was either proper, or if improper not obviously so. Hu removed, not material belonging to the RFC, but comments that did not belong there. The RFC instructions are clear - comments about the subject go on the main page; comments about the comments go on the talk page. All Hu did was move the meta-discussion from the main page to the talk page. S/he moved ''all'' the meta-discussion, not just Italiavivi's. Now maybe s/he shouldn't have done that; I don't know. But s/he certainly had grounds for believing that s/he was doing the right thing. There was clearly no intent to disrupt anything, and therefore no need to block.
::: [[User:Zsero|Zsero]] 04:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

=== On Privacy and Harassment ===
Looking further at the underlying dispute, I think there is reason for concern and greater consideration here. Essentially what has happened is that someone dug up two instances where Italiavivi made edits without logging in, but signed his username to them. Then taking those IP addresses they went through other IPs in the same range and picked out some that they felt to be 'similar' and listed all of these IPs (and the two with identifying signatures) on the RFC. The [[wikimedia:Privacy policy]] states that we will only reveal IP addresses in response to a court order, to deal with extensive vandalism from a range, or the like... and [[WP:HARASS#Posting_of_personal_information]] prohibits revelation of personally identifying information the person has not themselves chosen to make public. Now, it can certainly be argued that since these IP addresses belong to ranges held by ISPs they may not be personally identifying enough to be of concern ''and'' that Italiaviva 'chose' to make his association with these IPs public when he signed his username to edits by them.... but it doesn't smell good. Nor does the listing of IP addresses as supposedly being his seem kosher when Checkuser would turn down cold any request to so link them. Italiaviva says some of them aren't his, and checkuser considers it a privacy violation to review the matter at all... so how is it ok to post them ''without'' the imprimatur of checkuser?

Bottom line - we shouldn't be attempting to 'ferret out' the IP addresses of users. If we continue allowing this practice (and I've seen other recent examples of it) then eventually there ''will'' come a day when an IP address which '''does''' lead directly back to the person behind it is revealed. Hopefully it will be an innocent case and no harm will come of it, but we can't really know. As I've said before... we should either ''always'' protect our user's IPs and identities or clearly state that we don't. Right now we say that we do, but allow alot of behaviours and activities which compromise that. --[[User talk:CBDunkerson|CBD]] 13:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:That's a very valid point to make CBD, but if a user chooses to edit with their IP or for that matter a changing IP from an ISP then that is upto them. If they are using IP's to make it appear that they haven't been editing a particular page, or skip past a 3RR violation then that is up to them, but we have a duty to compare these edits and if it is clear a user has been using an IP to make disruptive edits, bring it to their (and the communities) attention. We're not talking about outing an IP that a user has been editing on - that would be wrong as the user hasn't chosen to do this, but comparing edits and saying that an IP and a user are the same person, ultimately abusing [[WP:SOCK]]. [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''Ryan Postlethwaite''']] 13:34, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Point of fact: our privacy policy does not promise to protect the privacy of those who are not logged in, and even specifically says that users who are concerned about their privacy should log in. All promises of privacy that follow are qualified with the words "when using a pseudonym". Without commenting on the appropriateness of all of Hu12's actions, Italiavivi is the one who revealed his own IP address. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 13:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Hmmm... so if you don't realize you aren't logged in and you make an edit which can be linked back to you then you are out of luck? Or, as occurs in this case, if people simply ''think'' that an IP address may be yours they can and should go about posting it as evidence? We can go that way if people want. I don't see any pressing reason to do so, but if we ''are'' going to then I think we should make it more clear that we allow (encourage?) users to do what they can to dig up and post the IP addresses of others whom they are in dispute with. --[[User talk:CBDunkerson|CBD]] 14:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I would say there is a difference between making an edit from you IP that maybe able to be linked back to you, and going back and signing your name to an IP edit you made. The first can only be guessed to be you, and if you really don't want people to know your IP address you have plausible deniability. Whereas the second is more than just not paying attenion - it's not paying attention and then going back and deliberately tying yourself to that IP address. Wikipedia only promises privacy to logged in users, because it is impossible to provide privacy to anonymous users, and Wikipedia cannot do anything if users reveal their own IP addresses. To clarify myself, though, I don't think what Hu12 is doing is acceptable, and I would describe it as harrassment, but I would not describe it as a privacy violation. There is a difference. Or rather, a violating someone's privacy is a form of harrassment, but all harrassment is not violating privacy. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 14:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::I understand the impulse to 'catch the bad guy', but am not sure this manifestation of it comports with actual practice. I recall a case where an IP address made a 4th revert, identical to three preceding it by a logged in user, and [[WP:RCU]] refused a request to determine whether that IP address was the same as the user for purposes of establishing whether a 3RR violation had occurred. IPs aren't useful for most types of 'sockpuppet abuse' as they aren't considered in RFA comments and often receive less weight in *fD and the like as well. Thus, they'd only really be 'helpful' in edit warring... and people can always be blocked for that if it goes on at length even if 3RR is never surpassed on any particular day. Thus... is there really any great ''need'' to identify 'IP sockpuppets' which would outweigh the potential harm in doing so? If people feel that there '''is''' then I return to my statement that we should be warning people about the possibility of their IP being dug up and posted about... and not just with 'abusers', because there are always plenty willing to use any such tool to 'go after' those they simply disagree with. It's the old Ben Franklin, 'if you give up liberty to gain security you will have neither' situation. --[[User talk:CBDunkerson|CBD]] 13:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[Ethnic Germans]] ==

I have added a number of cite-taggs and other request for references to this article, however certain users keep removing them without any summary, or offensive remarks. One user complained that the reasons for the cite taggs should be further explained on the talkpage. Which I then did. Yet they still get removed. I would like the version with the cite tags restored and that the article be protected (semi or full) untill references are provided, or that the users removing the taggs be explained that they are harming the trustworthyness of wikipedia.[[User:Rex Germanus|Rex]] 13:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:A little background. Rex Germanus move-warred at the article in the past (without seeking consensus on the talk page) and was reverted by several distrinct editors. He then proceeded to add 40(!) cite tags on the article (along with more unilateral modifications) and when this massive adding of tags was reverted he reverted in turn using summaries like "naturally I revert. In fact, one more of these actions and I'll report you. I'm fedd up with this childish behaviour. If you want remove a tagg, ADD A SOURCE FOR IT!" and "revert to last version by rex. Fact taggs readded. See talk for details. Remove them again, and I'll call in the admins.". And call in the admins, he did. And I failed to find any offensive remarks direct at Rex in the recent history, though I feel his behaviour, in turn, is a bit tedious. As for the request for protection... see [[m:The Wrong Version]] [[User:84.145.229.194|84.145.229.194]] 14:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Naturally the remark on 40 citetaggs is a lie, and a bad one too. Though the information in the article is so unsourced and flawed my guess it would have been easy to actually do it. The move discussion (as it was discussed) is irrelavant, as is your remark on the 'wrong version'. It not about my version, its about a version with information that can be checked. In fact my version is identical to yours, with the only difference being that mine warns readers that the information is not sourced. Learn how wikipedia works, then lecture others.[[User:Rex Germanus|Rex]] 15:52, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Feel free to count [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ethnic_Germans&diff=156993379&oldid=155752761|count them], Rex, before you call me a liar. 40 Tags were added. [[User:84.145.229.194|84.145.229.194]] 16:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Like I said, 40 cite taggs were not added. Still a lot though. With which one(s) did you disagree anonymous? I can't seem to find your objections on the talkpage. [[User:Rex Germanus|Rex]] 16:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::PS. An admin just restored virtually all my cite taggs.Cheers![[User:Rex Germanus|Rex]] 16:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Anonymous user keeps deleting screenshots ==

In the articles [[ArmA:_Armed_Assault]] an anonymous user (72.188.213.190, 70.118.89.204, 70.118.90.29) keeps deleting a [[::Image:Arma33.JPG|legit screenshot]] with the argument that it's not "web-resolution". He even keeps reverting the copyright and fair-use rationale that is supplied with the image.

Can we do anything about this situation? --[[User:Frescard|Frescard]] 14:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:The resolution of that screenshot really does need to be reduced. [[User:WilyD|Wily]][[User talk:WilyD|D]] 15:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Yeah, I don't think there's an exception to fair use policy for video games, even if what you are attemping to illustrate is the high resolution of the game. Although the anon should not be replacing the fair use rationale with the statement that there is no rationale. If s/he thinks the rationale is invalid, that should go to the talk page or some appropriate venue for discussion, rather than be edit warred over. I notice, though, that no one has attempted to engage this anonymous user in discussion at their talk page, which should be the first step. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 15:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:::I uploaded a 300x250 pixel image at [[:Image:Arma33.JPG]] that satisfies the low resolution requirement. [[User:WODUP|'''''WODUP''''']] 16:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::::Unfortunately, at that size the whole point of the image gets lost...
::::But I've contacted the developer, and they will try to set up an image tag like [[Template:Ubisoft-screenshot|Ubisoft]], in order to allow ''any'' kind of screenshots. --[[User:Frescard|Frescard]] 17:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:::::Just a suggestion, but if you're trying to illustrate the resolution, how about cropping down to just a 500x500 small area of the screen? That would still show the level of detail and (while still technically a copyvio) might be less of a problem — [[User:Iridescent|iridescent]] [[User_talk:Iridescent|(talk to me!)]] 17:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::::::Well... is "web-resolution" defined anywhere? I looked, but without much success.
::::::I would imagine that nowadays, with the majority running at least 1024x768 that that would fall into the definition, but it seems that some people feel different... --[[User:Frescard|Frescard]] 19:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:::::::I've always understood web resolution to mean the same size as it's displayed in the article, typically 180 pixels wide. —[[User talk:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 19:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::::::::For things like album & book covers, I generally use between 300px & 500px - not everyone uses the default thumbnail settings, but I can't imagine anyone having it set higher than that. That's the size Amazon uses on sales blurb, so I treat it as a ''de facto'' web standard — [[User:Iridescent|iridescent]] [[User_talk:Iridescent|(talk to me!)]] 19:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::"Web-resolution" is largely dependent on the layout of a site and the lowest common screen resolution used by visitors. While there's no one standard, there is a clear differentiation between that and print resolution, which is drastically higher (a 300dpi 8x10" image translates to 2400x3000). Also, Wikipedia users may have different thumb size settings in [[Special:Preferences]] - all the way up to 300px width. Fair use images should be no larger than necessary, but the 300px max guidelines are arbitrary and meaningless (though favored by the image patrol posse). However I have difficulty imagining a fair use claim where a resolution larger than .3 megapixels is necessary. ˉˉ[[User:Anetode|'''anetode''']][[User_talk:Anetode|╦╩]] 20:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:Dacy69]] ==

[[User:Dacy69]] (under supevision at [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2#List_of_users_placed_under_supervision]]) despite a discussion is going on related to the neutrality of [[March Days]], he deleted the POV tag and also deleted '''some sourced information related to the numbers of killed people''' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=March_Days&curid=5122310&diff=157164379&oldid=156958567]without asking why? [[User:Andranikpasha|Andranikpasha]] 16:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:The user has been blocked by Seraphimblade. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 18:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

It was 14 days ago [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Dacy69]. Now he's unblocked![[User:Andranikpasha|Andranikpasha]] 18:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Ah, you're right. I did not read that closely enough. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 18:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I do love this - two arbitration cases and still the Armenia wars will not cease. Very silly! Fortunately, however, the kind gentlemen of the Committee have given us the tools to fight back. We simply have to drag this area of the encyclopedia back under control, and if that means playing a tad rough, so be it. General comment. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 18:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Alansohn ==

Would somebody please help me at [[User talk:Alansohn]]. I asked him really quite nicely nicely not to use misleading edit summaries, which prompted him to accuse me of all kinds of shit, and he also thinks that reposting a cached version of an article is fine by policy whereas deleting an article on a living individual drawn entirely form tabloid news reports is Evil. Judging from [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Alansohn]] this is pretty much normal behaviour for him. Is it time for further action? [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 16:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
*Quite nicely? You accuse me of deliberately falsified edit summaries to disguise changes made to the [[Lizzie Grubman]] article: '''"Alan, I suggest you take a lot more care here. You have at least twice used highly misleading edit summaries, making significant changes which you knew to be controversial with summaries that imply minor copyediting."''' You then made an "or else" threat: '''" If you continue to do this then I will feel a need to bring this to wider notice."''' There is no policy requiring that any edit summary be entered, whatsoever. Every single word added to the article included a reliable and verifiable source. We now have a completely imaginary WP:TABLOID policy that has been violated, when in fact every single reference added comes from a reliable source, and that no one else has challenged. Even the admin who deleted the article in the face of unanimous consensus to keep the article as is (other than the nominator) didn't use teh excuse that teh sources weren't reliable. No other editor has claimed that the content added was "controversial" or attempted to change a word of what you have decided was inserted misleadingly. Every single edit that I have made over the past few years includes an edit summary that provides a clear, concise and accurate description of the changes I've made. That, despite repeated requests, you have never specified what Wikipedia policy has been violated, you have failed to specify what the "or else" part of your threat is and to take take the action you keep on threatening is evidence that there is no legitimate purpose here. It amazes me that an admin can improperly delete an article, another admin can improperly delete the same article after sources were added, and a third admin can make false accusations of a policy violation, accompanied by threats of further action, that I can plead with this admin to move on and have him refuse. I finished my edits of the article, which is balanced, comprehensive and in which nearly every sentence is thoroughly-documented (including such "tabloids as ''[[The New York Times]]'' and ''[[New York (magazine)|New York]]'' magazine). I had already moved on, but an admin wants to fight a non-existent battle. And who has a problem here? [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] 18:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::*I agree with JzG in regards to you using a misleading edit summary. I do not see where JzG has breached [[WP:CIVIL]] here? He did not right off the bat come to you with a stern warning. I think you overacted to what he was leaving as a notice/reminder from the start. Also, there may be no policy about entering an edit summary but policy is clear enough in saying "do not enter a misleading edit summary."[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 19:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::*'''"Alan, I suggest you take a lot more care here. You have at least twice used highly misleading edit summaries, making significant changes which you knew to be controversial with summaries that imply minor copyediting."''' followed by '''" If you continue to do this then I will feel a need to bring this to wider notice."''' An accusation of "misleading edit summaries" followed by a threat "to bring this to wider notice" when NO ONE HAS SPECIFIED WHAT WIKIPEDIA WAS VIOLATED, may not be a violation of [[WP:CIVIL]], but it is certainly not "nicely". What battle is being fought here? Are we just having admins defending other admins by attacking non-policy issues? [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] 19:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::*Calm down. No [[WP:BATTLEGROUND|battle]] is being fought here. Your edits were believed to be inappropriate. I am not really aware or involved about the controversy of your content additions (so I have no comments in regards to that) but it is easy to tell that you were using a misleading edit summary. Just understand that it is honestly not appropriate to do so. That's all.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 19:20, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::*Do you (or anyone else) seriously believe that the edits were deliberately "misleading" as [[User:JzG]] accused or (at worst) brief? Do you have any shred of Wikipedia policy that requires any edit summary for any article (Answer: none exists)? Was any Wikipedia policy violated? What is the "or else" threat "to bring this to wider notice" and why was it necessary? I had finished editing the article and moved on. I'm trying to build an encyclopedia here; Your fellow admin [[User:JzG]] is trying to fight some sort of battle about the article, citing his brand-new WP:TABLOIDISM policy. I don't suppose that you know his motivations or the answers to these questions, but we need to hear a thorough explanation for these actions directly from the horse's mouth. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] 19:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::*Yes I do and I explained to you why. You labeled them [[WP:COPYEDIT|copyedits]] when they had nothing to do with small grammatical, spelling, etc. fixes. However, I do understand it might not have been your direct intention to make the edit summary misleading.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 19:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:I left this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alansohn&diff=157184487&oldid=157183181 comment] on his talk page describing the difference between what is considered [[WP:COPYEDIT|copyediting]] and introducing new material into an article. I also alerted him to this ANI thread as common courtesy.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 17:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:I have last week been in a very similar dispute with Alansohn, and this behavious seems to be all too common for him. The RfC hasn't really achieved anything, sadly. [[User:Fram|Fram]] 19:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:: Good to see all the old tricks here: the SHOUTING, the accusations, the outrage, the wikilawyering and the mindless repetition, all without admitting even the slightest possibility of having done something wrong. The RfC could be re-opened. [[User:Eusebeus|Eusebeus]] 19:46, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::* Or escalated, since he shows every sign of not just not learning, but of denying any need to learn. [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 19:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::*Agreed. This is not a new problem by any means. [[User:Wikipediatrix|wikipediatrix]] 19:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::*No disrespect, Guy, but given that your response to his "what the hell are talking about?" was to simply repeat what you originally said, with added boldface, talk about escalation cuts both ways. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 19:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::* That was the third or fourth iteration. But you're right, it should have been apparent that Alansohn's response to any form of kickback is reliably denial and attack, so yes I should have taken it straight here or maybe arbcom. [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 20:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::*Actually Calton, he didn't ask for clarification, he asked what WP policy he was explicitly violating in his summaries, which is wikilawyerish & belligerent, given the discussion that had already occurred. [[User:Eusebeus|Eusebeus]] 20:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
If your edit summaries were misleading, and it was an accident, then just apologize and explain that you'll be more careful? Is that a really difficult thing to do? Why all the '''shouting'''?--[[User:Haemo|Haemo]] 19:48, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:It seems apparent that he didn't understand what JzG was talking about -- whether he should have is another question, but is at least ambiguous -- and since JzG's response was to repeat the same thing over and over, with added boldface, it seems Alansohn's response to repeat the same thing over and over, with added boldface, was at least at the same level. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] | [[User talk:Calton|Talk]] 19:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:*A note on my page that read "Alan, please try to leave more descriptive edit summaries when making edits of this nature", would have gotten a prompt thanks. I have nothing to hide, and stand behind every single edit (and edit summary) I made to the article, despite the claim of "violating" the brand-new [[WP:TABLOID]] policy that JzG created earlier today. Instead, my first contact from [[User:JzG]] was the baseless claim of making knowingly misleading edit summaries in bad faith '''"Alan, I suggest you take a lot more care here. You have at least twice used highly misleading edit summaries, making significant changes which you knew to be controversial with summaries that imply minor copyediting."''' followed by '''" If you continue to do this then I will feel a need to bring this to wider notice."''' An accusation of "misleading edit summaries" followed by a threat "to bring this to wider notice", which [[User:JzG]] presents as "asking nicely", is anything but. We deserve far better from an admin who seems to be desperately trying to manufacture a controversy here. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] 20:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::*I don't really see why one would get a "thanks" and the other would cause you to react like this. You've made it clear that it was an accident; that's good now. Everyone here appears to be [[WP:AGF|acting in good faith]], and it would probably be beneficial if we just left it at that. Sometimes cheerfully responding even to things you feel might be pushing it prevents a lot of trouble. After all, we all have better things to do. --[[User:Haemo|Haemo]] 20:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::*My version is a suggestion; JzG's version constitutes an accusation and a threat. And you think they're the same? Accusing someone of maliciously hiding nefarious edits to an article and threatening action is your version of [[WP:AGF|assuming good faith]]? [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] 20:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::* Except that the issue wasn't that your summaries weren't descriptive, it was that they were ''misleading'', representing significant textual changes as "copyediting". Most editors will not check or patrol an edit labelled "copyediting" by an account with a bluelinked user page. You didn't suggest that this was accidental, what you did was to demand what the hell was wrong with calling it copyediting - and all ''that'' does is make it look very much ''more'' like you are deliberately setting out to mislead and far less likely that you simply hadn't thought it through. [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 20:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::*You are still making the baseless and bad faith accusation that the edit summaries were misleading. You still have not justified just how it is that you "know" that they were misleading. You didn't make a request. You didn't make a suggestion. You made an accusation accompanied by a threat. If you look at my past 30 or 40 thousand edit summaries, you will see that a significant majority are prefixed with the words "copyedit and wikify re..." Yet, this is the first time, in over 40,000 edits, that anyone has ever accused me of making a "misleading edit summary". Did you bother to review the edits and look through my edit history, or were you just trying to manufacture a controversy about an article where there seems to have been clear administrative impropriety? Someone else mentioned [[WP:COPYEDIT]] as the issue here, but that's a "how to", not a policy. I've asked a dozen times, and you still haven't specified what Wikipedia policy was violated. Why was the bad faith accusation and threat necessary, and why on earth would you think it was appropriate. ? [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] 20:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::: Well that's a serious charge: a ''baseless and bad-faith accusation''. So let's have a look, shall we?
::::::: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lizzie_Grubman&diff=157016441&oldid=157005269 (copyedit and wikify re bio)] - but the "copyedit" re-inserts gratuitous detail about her mother's death. Misleading? Certainly not just a ''copyedit'', and when it follows this edit [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lizzie_Grubman&diff=157005269&oldid=156966353] which has the edit summary "(what her mother died of isn't really relevant and adds nothing to the article)", and removes ''precisely that fact'' - and that fact was inserted by you in the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lizzie_Grubman&diff=156966353&oldid=156934179 previous edit]! - you cannot posisbly be unaware that what you were doing was, far from copyediting, reinserting disputed material. So: I would call that a ''very'' misleading edit summary.
::::::: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lizzie_Grubman&diff=next&oldid=156926477 (add additional biographical details, with sources)] - really? So the statement "An expert hired by the plaintiffs in a civil case against her who reconstructed the accident based on data from the car's "[[black box (transportation)|black box]]" determined that her actions intentional" is a ''biographical detail''? Since when did experts ''determine'' things in civil suits?
::::::: But I guess not all your edit summaries are misleading. Take this one, for example: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alansohn&diff=prev&oldid=157171045] - (You were the one who intruded with knowingly false claims and made pathetic empty threats that you refuse to follow through with. Put up or sht up, once and for all.) Oh, my! ''Knowingly false'', eh? No chance of even a difference in interpretation, ''knowingly'' false. Dear oh dear, sounds like you might need to open a request for comment, what with me going round making ''knowingly false'' accusations. Or... wait... is it perhaps the case that others here have ''also'' said that your edit summaries were misleading? Why, they have! So perhaps it's not ''knowingly false'' after all! Perhaps it's a perfectly reasonable interpretation under the circumstances! Perhaps, after all, you might need to, you know, be a bit more careful? Perhaps someone should go to your talk page and suggest that you're more careful with the summaries? Ah, but I see that a helpful admin already did that.
::::::: FYI: acceptable responses would have been "oops", "sorry", "that's not what I meant" or even nothing at all.
::::::: Unacceptable responses include "HOW DARE YOU!" and "SHOW ME IN POLICY WHERE IT SAYS I CAN'T DESCRIBE REVERSION AS COPYEDITING, GO ON, SHOW ME!".
::::::: In short, then, I left you a polite note, and you went utterly ballistic and in the process made a total fool of yourself by asserting that it is ''knowingly false'' to describe as misleading those edit summaries which were, very obviously, misleading. And from your RfC it seems that this is repeatably how you react. The question is what we might want to do about that. [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 22:10, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I've already written an outside view on the original RfC asking why a particular old, resolved dispute was there. Amusingly enough, in that old, resolved dispute, it was Guy/JzG who said at the time as a neutral admin that both disputing parties had lost their perspective. The general consensus on the talk page of the RfC was that the RfC result could be described roughly as "Alansohn never responded directly to the RfC; although some users noticed changes in some of his behavior that seemed to them to reflect criticisms made in it. Other users did not feel he showed any sign of modifying his behavior. No consensus was reached as to whether the RfC had its intended effect or not." If we think there is a general pattern repeating, another RfC seems to be in order, possibly escalating to mediation or beyond. Frankly, I think there is a bit of a general pattern repeating here. [[User:GRBerry|GRBerry]] 22:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
*Alansohn's view (see his screed below) seems to be that a good offense is the best defense. The RfC highlighted various tendencies, including: 
# A tendency to repeat his viewpoint with legalistic reference to policy, regardless of the response of those who disagree with him. This drives many editors to extreme frustration.
# A tendency to accuse those who disagree with him of making personal attacks.
# A tendency to insist upon the merits of his viewpoint without regard to a consensus or body of opinion that he disagrees with.
# A tendency to reinforce his positions with nasty characterisations of those with whom he disagree
# A tendency to extreme wikilawyering in discussion, often to the point of disrupting the larger debate.
# A tendency to avoid all compromise, or even the invitation to compromise, in instances where he is convinced of the rectitude & probity of his position, sometimes modulated by an ingenuous (or perhaps heartfelt) belief that he alone is acting to build consensus (''or in this case an encyclopedia''). Many of these are on full display here and below; it is distressing that there has apparently been no willingness to moderate any of these instincts. [[User:Eusebeus|Eusebeus]] 02:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
**Again, we have Eusebeus and his selective misinterpretation of facts. JzG violated [[WP:POINT]] by placing a knowingly false accusation and a threat on my user page in response to a made up policy violation regarding edit summaries. Despite repeated requests for the policy violated, JzG has stubbornly refused to specify what Wikipedia policy was violated; one can't be "legalistic" when there is no legitimate basis to the patently false "warning" and its accompanying threat. That you have added to the disruption in no way minimizes the abusive action by JzG. A cursory review of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lizzie Grubman]], shows unanimous consensus that the original article meets any and all standards of notability. That JzG refuses to abide by this consensus and has manufactured an imaginary "WP:TABLOIDISM" policy to justify his actions is further evidence of bad faith on his part. I stand by every single action and every single edit to the [[Lizzie Grubman]] article. I invite any individual who believes the current version of the article violates any Wikipedia policy to take another stab at deleting it at [[WP:AFD]]. Until then, this entire process of intimidation is intended to be disruptive, the very definition of a [[WP:POINT]] violation. This abuse by JzG must be put to an end. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] 03:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
* What would be the point of another RfC? Alansohn displayed no interest in the prior one, and any lessons he might have taken from it have proven ephemeral. RfC (or RfM, come to that) presupposes that all parties will come to the table and accept some measure of consensus resolution. What would make this any more likely now than the first time out I cannot guess. In my direct experience, Alansohn does not cease objectionable behavior until he is ordered to do so. [[User:RGTraynor|'''  RGTraynor ''']] 03:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Blatant Obvious sock ==
{{resolved}}
[[User:Pflanzgarten|Pflanzgarten]] was blocked indefinitely several months ago for edits like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jim_Clark&diff=prev&oldid=79133142 this] on the [[Jim Clark]] article. Now, today [[User:217.247.30.91|217.247.30.91]] made this alarmingly [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jim_Clark&diff=156960526&oldid=156742468 similar edit], and [[User:84.177.127.124|84.177.127.124]] made another very similar [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jim_Clark&diff=next&oldid=156978246 edit]. I think they should be blocked indefinitely as obvious socks —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Davnel03|Davnel03]] ([[User talk:Davnel03|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Davnel03|contribs]]) 17:53, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

:Yes, they look like IP socks, and I see this has been a problem in the past. I've issued a short-term (12-hour) block to the most recently used dynamic IP, which will just force him to switch. I've also semiprotected the target page, which should be more effective. '''[[User:MastCell|MastCell]]''' [[User Talk:MastCell|Talk]] 19:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:86.154.196.171 ]] ==

{{resolved}}
Would someone block this idiot and semi-protect AIV for a while? He's an obvious sock. [[User:The Evil Spartan|The Evil Spartan]] 18:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Looks like the IP has already been given an involuntary three hour break... [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] 18:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::I'm only seeing vandalism on AIV from the one IP address, so I think any protection is unecessary as yet. [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 18:10, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

==[[User:Aynabend]]==
{{resolved|Complainant blocked indefinitely by Moreschi; see below thread.}}
[[User:Aynabend]] (under supevision at [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2#List_of_users_placed_under_supervision]]) despite a discussion is going on related to the [[Arran (Republic of Azerbaijan)]], added unrelevant information [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arran_%28Republic_of_Azerbaijan%29&diff=157203406&oldid=157124127] with a semi-vandal marking "Arran and Garabagh are almost synonyms." [[User:Andranikpasha|Andranikpasha]] 18:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== {{user|Andranikpasha}} ==

Earlier on this fellow was placed on supervised editing, revert limitation and civility supervision for disruptive editing. Since then he's done nothing but wrangle pettily on various noticeboards. I've blocked him indef as a disruption-only account. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 19:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Ah good work, most probably a sock by his editing pattern anyway. [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''Ryan Postlethwaite''']] 19:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::The world will probably continue to turn on its axis with one less nationalistic edit-warring single-purpose account in it. Er, good block - may just want to make sure it's logged on the Arbitration page. '''[[User:MastCell|MastCell]]''' [[User Talk:MastCell|Talk]] 19:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Done. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 19:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Good job guys, this user needed guidance not an indef block. In any case the world still spins. Justice prevails [[User:VartanM|VartanM]] 19:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:I doubt it. We've seen so many of his type before (we've probably seen him before, too: how many new editors are all over ANI after 2 weeks?) that we've come to realise single-purpose disruptive edit-warring wrangling accounts will not be changed. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 19:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Andranikpasha is a genuine user. First off, he is, from email conversations, pretty much fluent in [[Eastern Armenian]], Artaxiad can barely speak any Armenian and Fadix writes in [[Western Armenian]]. So he is not the sock of a banned user. If you are to ban him for unjustified reasons then also ban [[user:Ehud Lesar]] who every one of us knows is [[user:AdilBaguirov]] and who, unlike Andranik, keeps a nice account while his edit warrings are relied to other suicide accounts. I am ready to defend my claim that [[user:Ehud Lesar]] is banned [[user:AdilBaguirov]] and armed with many evidences before an AA3. Blocking indefinitely users while others have had two arbitrations as chances and still disrupt (Atabek) is unfair, which won't be the first time I witness here.

The reason why you see him so many times on ANI is because Grandmaster and Atabek abuse the process by provoking members by reporting them on every given occasion, Vartan was reported three times to the Arbcom enforcement by Atabek for insignificancies in a very short time, while Grandmaster submitted Andranik for checkusers more than once. While this abuse of process was documented during the
last arbitration, case it was ignored by arbitrators like most of the other disruptions. Andranik was harassed and provoked the day he set foot on Wikipedia with multiple attempts to get him blocked. (whatever happened to the principle ''don't bait newbies?'').

1) Report members as much as it is required
2) create the illusion that only disruption comes from them and finally
3) expect him to be blocked on the given next occasion.
4) And then have other administrators support the block to make it more official, endorsing by the occasion Grandmaster and Atabek abuses of process which has
done nothing other than destabilising editors. - [[User:Fedayee|Fedayee]] 21:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:No, no - my question is, why was this user reporting everyone else to ANI? I care little if this user is a sock: the point is that he's a single-purpose account created purely, so it seems, to disrupt articles relating to Armenia with edit-warring and tendentious editing. We have quite enough of those without adding more to the mix. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 21:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
For now, I object to this block. The user may well improve sufficiently with mentoring. Any objections if I explore that (including unblocking)? [[User:El C|El_C]] 21:10, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:I am not volunteering myself, to be clear! (I don't really do mentoring) I meant, [[someone else]]! [[User:El C|El_C]] 21:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::If you can find someone responsible and willing to mentor, fine, but I would question whether we really need dedicate such time to SPAs here purely to fight on what's already our biggest battleground, even without this one. I don't really objec to close mentorship + restrictions, though. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 21:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Yes, I hear that. I'll look into it, thanks. [[User:El C|El_C]] 21:47, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Nice idea as i was going to say that the block is a bit exaggerated but i am just busy mentoring another user. -- [[User:FayssalF|FayssalF]] - [[User talk:FayssalF|''Wiki me up''® ]] 02:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:69.230.48.225]] ==
This guy has gotten away with vandalizing too many articles for too long. I and numerous others have warned him/her in the past, yet (s)he refuses to relent. He continues to vandalize such articles as [[Ozzfest]], [[Slipknot (album)|Slipknot]], [[Satellite (album)]]. Please prevent him/her from disrupting these articles any further. Thank you!
:Firstly, the IP hasn't edited since yesterday. Secondly, his/her history doesn't appear to contain any vandalism, but rather good faith edits like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Slipknot_discography&diff=next&oldid=156820294 this one]. Now, maybe you disagree with those edits, but that is not vandalism. Could you provide some [[Help:Diff|diffs]] of this vandalism? [[User:Natalie Erin|Natalie]] 22:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? This guy continuously adds bands like Simple Plan onto the Ozzfest page, and then adds a bunch of nonsensical miscellaneous information (incorrect band line-ups, etc.). It's happened at least ten times now. But I'm sure you'd know that if you looked at the history...

Also, I find it ironic that you mention Slipknot, given that he totally butchered that article
yesterday...

Here you go:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Slipknot_%28album%29&diff=157269692&oldid=155333042]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ozzfest&diff=157046415&oldid=156813606]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Satellite_%28album%29&diff=157198469&oldid=156784193]

This looks like good faith to you? I didn't think so.
[[User:75.60.240.144|75.60.240.144]] 01:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Moulton ==

I have indef blocked {{vandal|Moulton}}. See [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Moulton|his Rfc]] and [[Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Moulton|the talk page]], as well as his talk page. Multiple editors have tried to help Moulton and work with him, to no positive result - the result is usually Moulton insulting those trying to help him. It appears Moulton has confused Wikipedia with some kind of forum where OR and POV reign supreme. He uses the "martyr" card or makes personal attacks regularly. He not only hasn't learned a thing about how Wikipedia works, he has continued playing games with manipulation and misdirection, albeit so ineptly that he is driving away anyone who has made the attempt to help him. He's not here to assist in building an encyclopedia, and he's getting very much in the way of that aim with his disruptive tendentious proselytizing for his POV.

Per usual, if anyone wishes to unblock feel free. IMO giving him another chance will waste more time, but I have no objection if someone else wishes to waste that time. I'm done. [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]][[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]] 19:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:Well done. I commented as an outside view at the RfC, or I'd have done this myself a few days ago. Persistent talk page disruption, and trolling in the purest sense of the word - that is, editing with the apparent primary objective of getting a rise out of people. Sadly, he was all too successful. A good block. '''[[User:MastCell|MastCell]]''' [[User Talk:MastCell|Talk]] 19:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:I have no problem with this block. Checking over the RFC, accounts that are here solely to push original research (some of the stuff he wrote was outstandingly original!) are not welcome. As little time should be wasted over disruption-only accounts as possible. [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] [[User talk:Moreschi|Talk]] 19:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::Well, I hate to see someone get blocked, but there was little else that could be accomplished. Good block and its a shame he wouldn't listen to what other editors had to say. [[User:Baegis|Baegis]] 19:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:::I'm not sorry to have extended good faith towards him, but I'm not sorry to see the back of him either. The smart trolls are the worst. [[User:SheffieldSteel|Sheffield Steel]][[User_talk:SheffieldSteel|talkers]][[Special:contributions/SheffieldSteel|stalkers]] 20:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::::I commented at his RfC, although I did not have direct contact as others have. I think once he printed private emails (and who knows if or how they were edited by Moulton, which is why I think it's not appropriate), that was it. This is unfortunate, since he seems to be quite intelligent and well-read. But he didn't want to play by the rules. [[User:Orangemarlin|'''Orange''''''Marlin''']] [[User talk:Orangemarlin|Talk•]] [[Special:Contributions/Orangemarlin|Contributions]] 21:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:I agree with MastCell - it's a good block. I tried reasoning with Moulton several weeks ago, but gave up rather quickly. He just doesn't seem to be able to grasp the point of Wikipedia. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 22:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:Grant_Chuggle]] ==
*HE'S BACK ~ not a big surprise. New IP is [[user:41.241.8.137|41.241.8.137]]. He also uses IP [[41.241.74.5]], and just added [[41.241.14.73]] not sure if you have that one yet. He has also posted this in the Wikipedia sandbox. I'll not link it because, you can tell from the title, what the picture is. Image:Hot_naked_woman.jpg He's been repeatedly blocked but continues to use [[sockpuppetry]] to get past the blocks. More information can been found on my talk page.[[User:IrishLass0128|IrishLass0128]] 20:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:*Along with placing the pictures of the naked women in the sandbox, he is putting obsene phrases/"invitations" in. He has a long history of this behavior and has been reported several times. He also uses [[user:Hen55]] as a user id. He continues to remove [[verifiable]] information and place assumptions and personal opinion in articles. He is constantly changing his IP to evade blocking.[[User:IrishLass0128|IrishLass0128]] 20:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
*User has abused people, posted pictures of naked women, bragged about evading blocks, repeatedly invited people to "enjoy his man parts" and changed user reports about him. He's blocked for a week but has evaded the blocks again. As I have never encountered such a problem, is there a procedure for getting him banned for good and blocking his sockpuppets? He is disruptive, participates in edit wars, adds unverifiable information, and reverts edits made by multiple editors ignoring consensus decisions. Please advise on how to get user banned. [[User:CelticGreen|CelticGreen]] 00:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:Abtract]] - disruption. ==

[[User:Abtract]] has edited [[WP:Lead section]] four times imposing his own view as to how articles should begin which goes against a long-standing consensus. His decision to edit this page was prompted by a number of users reverting his changes to [[United Kingdom]], where he made the article begin with '''United Kingdom''' rather than '''United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'''. I pointed out that the UK article was following the guideline at [[WP:Lead section]], and so Abtract decided to change the guideline to suit his view. I also pointed out that very many articles followed the agreed consensus and gave the following examples [[United States]], [[BBC]], [[Tony Blair]], [[Margaret Thatcher]]. Abtract then decided to edit just these articles to follow his preferred style. Abtract's edits with regard to the lead are but one aspect of his determination to change the UK article to his own way of thinking and to repeatedly ignore the consensus. Please see [[Talk:United Kingdom]] for the evidence. [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] 20:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:That's clearly disruptive behavior, in my opinion. --[[User:Haemo|Haemo]] 20:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

::I'm thoroughly unimpressed by almost every single incident of this type, where someone is cited a policy, gets conronted by consensus on a page, then runs to the policy to get his way. I've already addressed at Lead Section, that he's making end runs around consensus across numerous pages, and hopefully that will sort this out, but I doubt it will be that easy, and I concur, it's disruptive. [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 20:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Very disruptive, indeed. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] 22:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

11 reversions on [[United States]]
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157133791&oldid=157109634
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157224515&oldid=157221207
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157226644&oldid=157225475
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157231654&oldid=157229558
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157233128&oldid=157232011
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157234670&oldid=157233580
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157237114&oldid=157236778
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157237655&oldid=157237434
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157240830&oldid=157239367
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157242208&oldid=157241659
#http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157244046&oldid=157243630
:[[User:Jooler|Jooler]] 22:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Given that you have provided [[template:3RR|a warning]], this user may be blocked under Wikipedia's [[WP:3RR|Three-revert rule]]. If he qualifies, you should bring this up on [[WP:AN/3]]. ''[[User talk:UC'tCM!|You Can]][[User:UC'tCM!/'|']][[Wikipedia:Editor review/You Can't See Me!|t Review Me!!!]]'' 23:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Is this acceptable? ==

''NOTE: This is a copy of an archived incident, resolved [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive295|here]]. I've added one question and a proposed exception to the decision.--[[User:Kitrus|Kitrus]] 20:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)''

<blockquote>
Is keeping a record of (spurious) sockpuppetry accusations, such as held here [[User talk:Kitrus]] accepted? Interesting juxtaposition of warnings and records [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kitrus&action=history http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kitrus&action=history]. Thoughts? -- [[User:Avraham|Avi]] 06:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
* I always enjoy accusations of sockpuppetry against the likes of Jayjg, they make it so much easier to work out that the accuser is deluded :-) No, this is not an acceptable use of user space. [[User Talk:JzG|Guy]] ([[User:JzG/help|Help!]]) 08:31, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
**I thought so. Thank you, and it's good to see you back, Guy! --- [[User:Avraham|Avi]] 12:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
*Funny, before other things came up for Jayjg, he was editing so heavily any sockpuppeting would have prohibited a job, eating, and sleeping. --[[User:MichaelLinnear|MichaelLinnear]] 23:19, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
</blockquote>

Which administrators were involved in this decision?--[[User:Kitrus|Kitrus]] 20:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I will restore the section that lists '''KNOWN''', verified sockpuppets and leave "suspected" deleted.--[[User:Kitrus|Kitrus]] 20:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:Why do you need this list? [[User:Shell_Kinney|Shell]] [[User_talk:Shell_Kinney|babelfish]] 21:00, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Why do you care? Why do you have any number of things on your own userpage?--[[User:Kitrus|Kitrus]] 01:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Consisten personal attacks on myself. ==

[[User:Uss-cool]] has plastered [[Talk:Abd-al-Aziz ibn Abd-Allah ibn Baaz]] with a number of attacks on my integrity as an editor due to a content dispute, which I am wary of as I suspect he may be involved in [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Chubeat8|this]] open case. I'll keep it short, this is not about the content dispute as I understand this isn't the place for it; this is about this user's consistent inability to behave in a civil manner. As can be seen by his [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Uss-cool contribs], most of his activity on this site has consisted of attacks on myself:
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abd-al-Aziz_ibn_Abd-Allah_ibn_Baaz&diff=prev&oldid=156968885 13:58, 10 September 2007]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abd-al-Aziz_ibn_Abd-Allah_ibn_Baaz&diff=prev&oldid=156982449 15:09, 10 September 2007]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abd-al-Aziz_ibn_Abd-Allah_ibn_Baaz&diff=prev&oldid=157168766 11:32, 11 September 2007]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abd-al-Aziz_ibn_Abd-Allah_ibn_Baaz&diff=prev&oldid=157186318 13:10, 11 September 2007]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abd-al-Aziz_ibn_Abd-Allah_ibn_Baaz&diff=prev&oldid=157226419 16:29, 11 September 2007]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abd-al-Aziz_ibn_Abd-Allah_ibn_Baaz&diff=prev&oldid=157227761 16:36, 11 September 2007]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abd-al-Aziz_ibn_Abd-Allah_ibn_Baaz&diff=prev&oldid=157228491 16:39, 11 September 2007]
In addition, he has also used [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/70.50.247.190 this] IP address, for what it's worth. 
Normally I would just chalk this up to a newbie not knowing how things work, but that coupled with my suspicion of him in regard to the above mentioned sockpuppetry case and his persistence in these attacks makes me a bit suspicious. Please advise. [[User:MezzoMezzo|MezzoMezzo]] 20:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== [[User:Skatewalk]] and [[User:Funkynusayri]]: disruption and canvassing ==

Could I ask someone to review [[User:Skatewalk]] and [[User:Funkynusayri]]'s conduct? Skatewalk has been cross-posting on various users' talk pages for days to encourage them to engage in revert wars on several articles, lastly asking them to deal with a user "known for his/her Anti-Arab agenda" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Funkynusayri&diff=prev&oldid=157229273]. He is also fond of soapboxing on article talk pages, for which I left him two not-a-forum warnings, which he deletes then posts on my talk page instead. Funkynusayri is the user who frequently responds to his calls [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Zerida&diff=prev&oldid=157230141]. Please review our contribution histories. — [[User:Zerida|Zerida]] 20:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I posted on members of the Arab world wiki project, because you are trolling Arabic language pages and claiming dialects as languages!
*the only language to split from Arabic is Maltese, every other nation speaks Arabic as its official language and has numerous local dialects. I ask the admin to review [[User:Zerida|Zerida]] biased edits history to see what type of agenda she is pushing!
*wikipedia is a scientific encyclopaedia not a place to play edit wars! 90% of your contribuitions are original research that opposes reality and science!--[[User:Skatewalk|Skatewalk]] 21:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
*Again, when I see sections of articles that are clearly false, or push a nationalistic agenda, I change them to the better. The "[[Egyptians]]" article is a huge problem, and is based on a false premise. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 21:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

===User Zerida contribuitions to Wikipedia!/sock-puppet Hamada-2===
It will take me pages to detail the atrocities this member commited.
* Creating Sock puppets such as [[User:Hamada2|Hamada2]]. participating in negative revert wars. that reduces the quality of wikipedia and its articles.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arab&action=history], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Copt&action=history], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Egyptians&action=history]
* A habit of blanking talk pages![http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Egyptians&action=history], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AEgyptians&diff=156985327&oldid=156984916]
* we are dealing with a rude user, who wants wikipedia to reflect his personal feelings!--[[User:Skatewalk|Skatewalk]] 21:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

:The only claim to which I can respond here is the blanking of the article's talk page, which editors are allowed to do if they are being used as a [[WP:FORUM|forum]] or disruptively. I only blanked that part that was in violation of policy. The rest is a rather long string of personal accusations and attacks that leaves me, more than anything, pretty surprised since I've had almost no interaction with Skatewalk until he began "editing" articles to which I frequently contribute. At any rate, content disputes, if there are any, are not an excuse for disruption. — [[User:Zerida|Zerida]] 21:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but explain the sudden apeerance of [[User:Hamada2|Hamada2]]?
He only appears to be interested in your edit wars?
Look at my history I expanded over 1000 articles, and I use respected refernces in every edit I add. Unlike your biased reverts or ommissions of refernces![http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Egyptian_Arabic&diff=157225189&oldid=157224578]
*Please explain to wikipedia, why did you delete this reference? [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Egyptian_Arabic&diff=157225189&oldid=157224578], its already known and official that Arabic is the language of egypt. The Egyptian govt websites operate in Arabic, the Egyptian dialect exists on TV just like the Southern American dialect or Italian American dialect exists on TV and the streets. However its not a language!. I referenced it because you seem to live in a fantasy world (which is beautiful), just dont spam wikipedia. They have Dramatica for creative users such as yourself.--[[User:Skatewalk|Skatewalk]] 21:46, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

===The bottom line===
Both parties should try [[WP:AGF]] and stop their "agendas and sockpuppetry" ''if'' they got any. -- [[User:FayssalF|FayssalF]] - [[User talk:FayssalF|''Wiki me up''® ]] 02:36, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==Open proxies? Sockpuppets? ==
Two Ip accounts [[User:86.145.251.168]] and [[User:84.67.181.45]] are obviously the same person, one was blocked for 3RR and the other restarted the edit war, the other couple of articles each has edited are identical as well. How can one tell if these are open proxies? [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] 21:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Try reporting them over at [[WP:OP|WikiProject on open proxies]]. The users there will check them out. --[[User:Snowolfd4|'''snowolfD4''']] ( [[User_Talk:Snowolfd4|'''talk''']] / [[Special:Emailuser/Snowolfd4| @]] ) 22:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Will do. [[User:Carlossuarez46|Carlossuarez46]] 22:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Not proxies, probably the same person, though, on a dynamic IP.—[[User:Ryulong|Ryūlóng]] ([[User talk:Ryulong|竜龍]]) 22:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Vandalism at [[Arthur Rubin]] ==

I'm not sure whether this should be here or [[WP:COIN]], but I just want to confirm that I can revert [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arthur_Rubin&diff=157177184&oldid=146498883 clear] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arthur_Rubin&diff=157254760&oldid=157183643 vandalism] on an article about me, especially if it's from an anon and claims to be reverting edits made by me. — [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]] | [[User_talk:Arthur_Rubin|(talk)]] 23:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:Regardless of what board this should go on, removing clear/undisputed/undeniable vandalism is absolutely an exception to [[WP:COI]]. So its quite alright of you to do so, no worries.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 23:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Not that another voice is needed here, but I surely think PPG to be quite right. [[User:Jahiegel|Joe]] 23:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Absolutely, reversion of obvious vandalism is appropriate by Wikipedia standards. The press and public can be harsh critics, though, so if you want to be avert potential off-wiki problems (which are beyond our control) then some alternative solutions are:
:::*[[WP:AIV]] - vandalism in progress noticeboard
:::*[[WP:BLPN]] - biographies of living persons noticeboard
:::*[[WP:RPP]] - requests for page protection (if the same vandal strikes several times)
:::Best wishes, [[User:Durova|Durova]]''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]'' 01:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Sanity ==

I have blocked [[User:Abtract]] for disruption on [[United States]]. I don't know about blocking the other reverters, could I have a second opinion? Thanks, [[User:Navou|Navou]] [[User talk:Navou|banter]] 23:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:If a user has 'reverted' more then 3 times in 24hrs, that's a breach of 3RR. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] 23:25, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::Not even remotely surprised. Attempts to get "your way" in an editing dispute by changing the guidelines, and then changing other articles, are bound to get messy. It was disruptive to begin with, and this is just a symptom of that. --[[User:Haemo|Haemo]] 23:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::I understand, however, you and another did revert exactly three times, and I considered blocking you two as well. Please do not participate in the edit war, even if you limit your reverts to exact three reverts. This is also disruption, and a block will prevent that disruption. [[User:Navou|Navou]] [[User talk:Navou|banter]] 23:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
<s>:::I've only reverted 3-times (pointing out my third, was my last). [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] 23:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)<s>
:::OK, I'll limit myself to 2-reverts, and avoid getting involved with edit wars. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] 23:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I'd say no other blocks are needed even if one person did revert against him 3+ times. Abtract's actions equate to simple vandalism, if not originally, then by the 12th time he repeated them against mass consensus. --[[User:tjstrf|tjstrf]] [[User talk:tjstrf|talk]] 23:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Honestly, we should be understanding of people who go to the "brink" when they're dealing with someone who makes unilateral, undiscussed changes, and then breaks our guidelines to edit war over them. --[[User:Haemo|Haemo]] 23:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Based on the edit history for [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&action=history United States] I counted 3 reversions max for every reverter besides [[User:Abtract]]...

Breakdown:

*Gooday: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=prev&oldid=157239367 1], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=prev&oldid=157241659 2], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=prev&oldid=157244775 3]
*DCGeist [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157233580&oldid=157233128 1], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157243630&oldid=157242208 2] (had reverted earlier but those where all anti-vandal reverts, acceptable)
*G2bambino [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157229558&oldid=157226644 1], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157236778&oldid=157234670 2], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157237434&oldid=157237114 3]
*Evb-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157232011&oldid=157231654 1]
*Jooler [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157225475&oldid=157224515 1]
*AndonicO [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&diff=157221207&oldid=157220400 1].

So technically there has been no [[WP:3RR|3rr]]s but the edit warring was disruptive.[[User:Persian Poet Gal|¤~Persian Poet Gal]] [[User talk:Persian Poet Gal|(talk)]] 23:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Yup, I thought so, just wanted the to double check. Also, thank you for that promise [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]]. [[User:Navou|Navou]] [[User talk:Navou|banter]] 23:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

==Folken De Fanel reported by Cman7792==

Folken De fanel and me have been arguing over the dbz live action film being merged with the dbz page. we both have different opinions, but every time he leaves a comment, the comment is personally attacking me. he says aweful things and he should watch his mouth. not to mention, he broke the three revert rule on the dragonballz page. he has a history of doing both these things.
--[[User:Cman7792|Cman7792]] 01:04, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Disruption on [[Iranian Azeris]] ==

A new [[User:Elick txu]] is pushing a self-made "demographic map" into the sensitive [[Iranian Azeris]] article. The map was originally uploaded to a fringe website and he is not providing any sources (in fact many other editors thinks that it is incorrect). He was reverted seven times by different users but kept re-inserting the map with nice summaries like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iranian_Azeris&diff=157081254&oldid=157077926]. I have blocked him for the PA and warned about 3RR and OR. Still he continued pushing the map as [[User:Babek Azeri]]. I have indefblocked the sock and extended Elick's block to 48h. I am reporting the matter here as while I have no interest to this article, I have reverted Elick and his sock twice, so I might be considered a participant. If somebody wants to review my actions, you are very welcome [[User:Alex Bakharev|Alex Bakharev]] 01:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==Bullying and harassment by [[User:JzG]]==
That [[User:JzG]] has chosen to deliberately misinterpret edits and edit summaries in bad faith, solely to push his arbitrary and baseless claim that the article "violates" the "WP:TABLOIDISM" policy he concocted today, is completely and utterly pathetic and intentionally disruptive. He made no effort whatsoever to discern the purpose of the edits; after going berzerk the fact that an article he opposes in the face of clear consensus was recreated, he concocted an issue deliberately intended to violate [[WP:POINT]], aiming to create an excuse for deletion of the article. The two edits falsely and maliciously presented by JzG as "highly misleading edit summaries", his baseless justification for his deliberately false warning and threats were the following: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lizzie_Grubman&diff=next&oldid=156926477 Edit 1] with an edit summary of "add additional biographical details, with sources" added a source about her celebrity clients and added two statements about the SUV incident; her claim that it was an accident, and an expert's claim that it was intentional, each backed by a separate reliable source. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lizzie_Grubman&diff=157016441&oldid=157005269 Edit 2], with an edit summary of "copyedit and wikify re bio" reinserted sourced information regarding her mother's death placing it in context in the lead section together with the mention of her parents, and several other copyedits and wikifications including 1) removing the words "and 'fixer'" (no support found), 2) changing "a Long Island nightclub" to "a nightclub in [[the Hamptons]], 3) wikilinking to [[felony]] (so that anyone unsure of the definition could look it up), 4) adding the words "Second-degree" before "assault" (to specify the crime she was charged with, based on the source), and 5) wikilinking to "driving while intoxicated". Every single one of these changes was sourced, was made in good faith, came from a reliable source and was made with the intention of improving an article that had already been improperly deleted and had vultures circling around looking for more excuses to delete it again. Well more than 12 hours later, with a stable, thoroughly-documented article far behind me, JzG went bat shit and went on attack. Deliberately ignoring the clear purpose behind the edits, failing to review the content of the article, and purposefully and maliciously ignoring my previous use of "copyedit and wikify re..." in edit summaries, he made a knowingly false accusation that the edit summaries I use were intentionally misleading with an aim of "hiding" something. This accusation is complete and total bullshit, and JzG's insistence that he believes this crap to be true is patently unbelievable. JzG has never bothered to point out any Wikipedia policy that was violated by these edit summaries, the fact being that edit summaries are not required and have never been required. That JzG has misinterpreted my good faith effort to improve an article he wants deleted is his own personal hangup, not justification for a manufactired warning and an empty threat. As there is no basis for his false and malicious claims, there is obviously no validity to his threat of taking this "to a wider audience". The proof of the pudding is JzG's edit summary for his bullshit attack: the incredibly detailed word "warning". That an administrator such as JzG would be so utterly ignorant of Wikipedia policy as to have to make up rules to be violated is a sad and disturbing state of affairs. Appropriate sanctions need to be taken against [[User:jZG]] to ensure that this pattern of abuse is not perpetuated with other users. I am willing to accept an apology from him to end this matter once and for all. [[User:Alansohn|Alansohn]] 01:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:This is a content dispute on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lizzie_Grubman&action=history Lizzie Grubman]? [[User:JzG]] has two edits to that article as far as I can see. It doesn't look much like "bat shit" to me. [[User:Secretlondon|Secretlondon]] 02:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Hello. This screed is way too long for many people to care. For instance, I haven't read it, and I'm not going to at that length. Look at the top of this page. Is there an executive summary? --[[User:Jeffrey O. Gustafson|Jeffrey O. Gustafson]] - ''[[User:Jeffrey O. Gustafson/Shazaam|Shazaam!]]'' - [[User_Talk:Jeffrey O. Gustafson|<*>]] 02:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::HA HA HA... I got as far as 'JzG did wrong' and ran for the sig... and then read it all. Alansohn seems to be lashing out. forget that noise. JzG wasn't the oly one revertign excess personal info unrelated to the article subject's notability. I'm starting to get tired of seeing Wikipedia articles turn from 'here's why this prson is notable' into 'here's every available fact about the person. Read a 'real' encyclopedia. Information too far outside notability is NOT included, and WP can benefit from remembering that we don't need to know Lizie Grubman's dog's name, nor about her exboyriend,s OR about her parents' deaths. None of those topics impacted, in any citable manner, her actions in that incident. [[User:ThuranX|ThuranX]] 02:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps this is better placed above [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Alansohn]], instead of fragmenting the discussion?--[[User:Hu12|Hu12]] 02:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

This is not at all what I had in mind when I suggested everyone just drop it. --[[User:Haemo|Haemo]] 02:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Regarding [[User:Maneisis]] ==

{{userlinks|Maneisis}}

This user received a level 4 warning in early April for creating hoax movie pages. However, in late June, he created [[MayBe (film)]], which is supposedly directed by [[Martin Hernandez]], a 15 year old. Then today, he created [[White Light (film)]], a nonsensical article that smells of hoax. He's also uploaded several movie posters from http://www.impawards.com; these probably aren't okay for 'pedia use. Not sure of appropriate action to be taken, possibly a short block? Thanks. [[User:GlassCobra|GlassCobra]] ([[User talk:GlassCobra|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/GlassCobra|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== IP address 74.100.231.137 ==

It's nothing much, and I'm probably overreacting, but IP address 74.100.231.137 went insane on my talk page, and removed a comment made by someone else.

All I did was post on their talk page about Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, and the whole Mother Brain =/= Aurora unit.

Before i undid what this user posted, here is what they posted:

"Ok Dude STFU, do you have some kind of pickle shoved way up your ass or something?"

"...you need to in general learn not to be such a god damn asshole.."

You can see the whole message(s) under my history page.

Again, probably something minor, but this REALLY shouldn't be the kind of thing that happens to users.[[User:GreenAiden555|GreenAiden555]] 02:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::People occasionally go bananas. If they go persistently bananas, you can report them as a vandal (if they are vandalising) at [[WP:AIV]]. Also, keep in mind that IP addresses can be used by many different people, so there's no guarantee that the person using the IP address right now will be the same one using it an hour from now. Just take things in stride and brush off the little things. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|日本穣]][[Help:Japanese|?]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] 03:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:You shouldn't remove vandalism warnings from your talk page either. [[User:Secretlondon|Secretlondon]] 02:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::There is no guideline or policy forbidding removal of anything from your own user talk page. It'll still be in the history, so it doesn't really matter anyway. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|日本穣]][[Help:Japanese|?]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] 03:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:::There's no prohibition as such on removal of warnings. But when checking out vandal reports and the like, if I see someone's history shows they have regularly blanked a lot of stuff from their talk page I often think "hmm, wonder what's going on here..." and start looking in more detail. There may well be nothing of concern, of course. [[User:Raymond arritt|Raymond Arritt]] 03:27, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==[[User:Cowboycaleb1]]==
If I have to put up with this user's nonsense trolling anymore I'm going to go off on him, and that's putting it mildy. He already revert warred with me, unsuccessfully [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR#User:Moe_Epsilon_reported_by_User:Cowboycaleb1_.28Result:_Article_protected_.29|accused me of 3RR]], which I was told to ignore because he seemed to be wrong about it [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Moe_Epsilon&diff=157212907&oldid=157172505], and now he requested I be "blocked from editing the WWE roster site" for adding "false information" [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Moreschi&diff=prev&oldid=157289262]. This user has been a problem for the last month having been blocked for disruption three times. Comments or action would be appriciated. — [[User:Moe Epsilon|Moe]] [[User talk:Moe Epsilon|ε]] 03:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==[[User:Duff man2007]]==
Sockpuppetry accusations aside, this user is showing a blatant disregard for Wikipedia policy and etiquette, making inflammatory posts on the [[Talk:Halo 3]] page, and violating 3RR on [[Halo 3]]. Several users have attempted to discuss the subject of the edit war, as well as pointing out the 3RR rule and the need for sources. Please, do something about this user! [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

he's wrong, I've provided sources numerous times and they chose to disregard it, calling it a "hoax". even though every other site on the internet talked about it, there pictures OF it, and tehre was links to the halo 3 ebay page; honestly, I don't even know why i'm arguing with this guy. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:53:33Z

Duff man2007: /* Campaign */

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:51:48Z

Duff man2007: /* Gameplay */

<noinclude>{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}</noinclude>
{{future game}}
{{Infobox CVG
|title = Halo 3
|image = [[Image:Halo 3 final boxshot.JPG|256px]]
|developer = [[Bungie Studios]]
|publisher = [[Microsoft Game Studios]]
|designer =
|series = ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]''
|engine = Halo Engine ([[Proprietary]])
|picture format = [[720p]] ([[HDTV]]) 
|version =
|released = {{vgrelease|North America|NA|[[September 25]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12467 |title = Finish the Fight on September 25, 2007 |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie Software |quote = On September 25, 2007, players will be able to finish the fight they started in Halo: Combat Evolved and continued in Halo 2. Halo 3 will release in Europe on September 26, 2007}}</ref> 
{{vgrelease|Europe|EU|[[September 26]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate /> 
{{vgrelease|Japan|JP|[[September 27]] [[2007]]}}<ref name="japrelease">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/games/h/halo3/ |title = Halo 3 Page Xbox Japan |accessdate = 2007-06-15 |author = Microsoft Games Studio |authorlink = Microsoft Game Studios |year = 2007 |format = HTML |publisher = Xbox.com/ja-JP/ |language = Japanese |quote = 発売日: 2007/09/27 }}</ref>
|genre = [[First-person shooter]]
|modes = [[Single player]], [[Co-op]], [[Co-op|Online co-op]], [[Multiplayer]], and [[Online multiplayer]] [[Halo 3#Forge|Forge]] [[Halo 3#Meta-game|Meta-game]]
|ratings = [[Entertainment Software Rating Board|ESRB]]: M [[British Board of Film Classification|BBFC]]: 15<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/1FB3194D3E47659580257341004F4642?OpenDocument|title=Halo 3 BBFC Rating Page|accessdate=2007-08-24}} </ref> 
[[Computer Entertainment Rating Organization|CERO]]: D [[Office of Film and Literature Classification (Australia)|OFLC]]: M<ref>{{web cite|url=http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=46&p=156&sTitle=Halo+3&sTitleExact=1&sMediaGames=1&sDateFromM=1&sDateFromY=2003&sDateToM=10&sDateToY=2007&record=221739|title=HALO 3 Game (Multi Platform)|publisher=The Classification Board and Classification Review Board|accessdate=2007-07-18}}</ref>
|platforms = [[Xbox 360]]
|media = [[DVD-DL]]
|requirements =
|input = [[Gamepad#Xbox 360|Xbox 360 Controller]]
|footnotes =
}}
'''''Halo 3''''', the final [[video game]] in the ''Halo'' trilogy, is an upcoming [[first-person shooter]] by [[Bungie Studios]] for the [[Xbox 360]]. An official announcement on the developer's website states that ''Halo 3'' will end the current [[story arc]] of the [[Halo (series)|''Halo'' trilogy]].<ref name="announcement">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Halo3Announcement |title = Halo 3 Announced |accessdate = 2007-08-06 |author = Achronos |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Bungie |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref> A public [[beta test]] of the multiplayer component of the game occurred between [[May 16]], [[2007]] and [[June 10]], [[2007]].<ref name=multiplayermadness>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=MPBetaAndVidocRelease |title = Inside Bungie: Multiplayer Madness! |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta will go live on May 16th at 12:00 AM PDT and run through June 6th at 11:59 PM PDT}}</ref> The final version of the game is due to be released on [[September 25]], [[2007]]<ref name=releasedate /> in the [[United States]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[Singapore]], [[September 26]], [[2007]] in [[Europe]] and [[September 27]], [[2007]] in [[Japan]]. On [[August 29]], [[2007]], Bungie officially stated that ''Halo 3'' has gone [[Software release life cycle#Gold or general availability release|gold]].<ref name=gold>{{cite web |url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12737 |title=Halo's Gone Gold! |accessdate=2007-08-29 |author=Luke Smith (lukems) |date=2007-08-29 |format=HTML |work=Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref>



==Halo 3 aussie leek==
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

==Gameplay==
The gameplay of ''Halo 3'' largely builds upon the previous successful renditions of the franchise. It is a [[first-person shooter]] that, once again, follows the character [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] and his struggle against the [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] and the [[Flood (Halo)|Flood]]. The game's action takes place largely on foot, but there are [[vehicles]] available for the player to use at certain points in the game. As with the other ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]'' titles, the [[multiplayer]] portion of the game is one of the game's most celebrated features, and is one of the reasons for the series' enormous success.

The balance of weapons and objects in the game has been adjusted to better adhere to what Multiplayer Designer Lars Bakken describes as the "Golden Three Things of ''Halo''". These are "weapons, grenades, and mêlée"; all three of which are simultaneously available to a player at all times while on foot (unless they are dual wielding or using one of the new class of support weapons).

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are famously limited to only two weapons at any one time in ''Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overpowered for every type of situation the player might encounter.

The new default controller layout will see the Right Bumper become the "action" button (pick up, reload, board vehicles, activate switches, etc), with the '''X''' button being used for deployment of equipment<ref name="betaquestions">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/04/10/halo-3-video-questions-cleared-up/ |title = Halo 3 video questions cleared up |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Dustin Burg |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |work = Xbox 360 fanboy Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = Xbox360fanboy.com |quote = ..the new bubble shield, trip mine, are 2 of the X button's deployments ...}}</ref> (see ''Equipment'' below). When dual-wielding, weapons can be individually reloaded using either the left or right bumper. Other buttons are unchanged, but '''B''' (melee attack) also will be used to take a stationary gun turret off its tripod for mobile use, becoming one of the game's "support weapons" (see ''Weaponry'' below), <ref name="Kotaku 07-05-11">{{cite video | people = Frank O'connor (presenter), Richard Blakeley (Camera), Michael McWhertor (News Writer) |date = [[2007-05-11]] |title = Kotaku Beta Preview Presentation | url = http://kotaku.com/gaming/has-anyone-here-seen-predator%3F/new-video-of-halo-3-beta-map-weapons-259861.php |format = Flash video/ HTML) |medium = Presentation |publisher = Kotaku.com |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |time = 2:30}}</ref>. As with previous games however, players can still choose to change the default control layout in their game profile to a number of pre-sets. <ref name="betacontrols">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaWhatsNew |title = H3 Public Beta: Whats new? |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML/ASP |work = Guide to the Halo 3 Beta |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The default button layout is one of four available in the Beta }}</ref>

===Campaign===
The only officially broadcast campaign footage released has been at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2006 trailer|E3 2006]] {{fact|date=September}}, the [[Marketing for Halo 3#"Et tu, Brute?" video documentary|"Et Tu, Brute?"]] {{fact|date=September}}
Vidoc and again at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|E3 2007]] {{fact|date=September}}
. There are several distinct types of environments that players will have to traverse in ''Halo 3''; lush jungles, built up towns and sparse desert environments have all been seen. {{fact|date=September}}

Other campaign footage has been shown to people at other gaming conventions such as [[Games Convention|Leipzig]]{{fact|date=September}}
and this is Tsavo Highway, the third level in the game. {{fact|date=September}}

[[AI]] behavior of both enemies and allies in the campaign will be greatly enhanced in ''Halo 3''. Marines' driving and gunning skills on the Warthog, Grunt flanking maneuvers in battle, and Brute "[[Herd behavior|pack mentality]]" have all been mentioned by Bungie as examples of using the power of the Xbox 360 for more than making the game look better. Enemy AI will also have new non-combat behaviors, rather than just sitting around waiting for players to kill them, to make them feel more "alive" and realistic.

====Cooperative play====
[[Image:Halo 3 online co-op.jpg|left|thumb|225px|Master Chief alongside the Arbiter, N’tho ‘Sraom and Usze ‘Taham.]]
''Halo 3'' features up to four player [[cooperative gameplay]] over [[Xbox LIVE]] or [[System Link]] and two player cooperative split-screen.<ref name="soundofsack" /> Although previous games also supported split-screen co-op, system link and XBL variants of this game mode is a first for the series. Players playing split-screen can also join other players over system link and Xbox LIVE for a total of up to four players.

For plot reasons, instead of having each player be an identical [[SPARTAN-II Project|Spartan]] like in previous ''Halo'' games, the first player will play as [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]], the second player the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] and the other two players newly created Elites; [[N’tho ‘Sraom]] and [[Usze ‘Taham]] each with their own backstories. Each player has identical abilities although the starting weapon will be different depending on whether the player is Master Chief or an Elite.<ref name="soundofsack">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack |title = The Tru7h About Co-Op in Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-08-02 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-07-31]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> Master Chief will have the Battle Rifle, while the Elites will be equipped with Carbines depending on which mission they are on.

====Meta-game====
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The ultimate task will be to beat every mission in Legendary difficulty with all skulls turned on in a certain time limit with style... To get the highest possible score."|source=—Brian Jarrard, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}
''Halo 3'' features a "campaign meta-game" in which a player is awarded a numerical score based on their performance while completing a level in the campaign. Points mostly come from defeating enemies, with extra points being awarded for stylish moves such as performing "headshots", or progressing through a level quickly. Finding and activating Skulls, a continuation of [[Halo 2]]'s gameplay-altering [[Easter egg (virtual)|easter eggs]], allows a player to obtain even higher scores in the meta-game. As it records individual performance for each player, the meta-game also introduces a competitive aspect to co-op play. If a player themselves die, or kill a co-op teammate however, they will lose points.<ref name="edge179" /> Campaign play also unlocks even more armor permutations for use in multiplayer.<ref name="screenshotsgalore">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12616 |title = Way Beyond the Beta: Screenshots Galore |accessdate = 2007-07-04 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-03]] |format = HTML /ASPX |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The C.Q.B. (Close Quarters Battle) and E.V.A. (Extra Vehicular Activity) variants of Spartans are two of the numerous permutations players will be able to unlock in Halo 3}}</ref>

[[Gamerscore]] is awarded for successfully getting over a certain score in each level,<ref name="Achievements" /> and medals are awarded for specific accomplishments.

===Multiplayer===
[[Image:High Ground Gate.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Halo 3'' multiplayer map High Ground]]
Up to four people can participate in multiplayer match on a single [[Xbox 360]] in ''Halo 3'' via a [[Split screen (computer graphics)|split screen]] layout. Up to sixteen may participate in a single match over a [[LAN]] or [[Xbox Live]]. A combination of some or all of these methods may be combined for a match with up to sixteen players.

Like most multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, ''Halo 3'' will use a customized version of [[TrueSkill]] ranking system for its online matchmaking facilities. ''Halo 3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s matchmaking system will be based on two different ranks, skill and experience (Rating Points or RP). Skill will simply be the TrueSkill rank of the player in a given playlist, and experience (RP) is a linear measure of experience (1 point for each win in the online playlists). Overlaid by a Military rank; so, a player with a designation of a "General" will have played for a longer time than someone who is a "recruit". This is in order to make the system more fair and to reflect the effect of experience on players' profiles.<ref name="1up-3155479"> {{cite web |url = http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155479 |title = The Five Best Things About Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author= Luke Smith |date = [[2006-11-24]] |format = HTML |work = 1up Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = 1up.com }}</ref> The RP system also has a mechanism built in to dissuade players from excessive quitting from matches, which became a problem for some players in Halo 2. When players quit from a match before it has finished, they will lose 2 RP. So players that regularly quit games, leaving their teammates stranded, may eventually end up having ''negative'' RP.

The UI (user interface) has been redesigned from ''Halo 2'', making it easier to generate a custom game in ''Halo 3'' multiplayer, which can now be saved and shared online with the File Sharing Features. Players will now be able to "advertise" their custom games via [[Xbox Live]] Public; making it easier to find a multiplayer match to a player's taste without having to link up with friends.<ref name="1up-3155479" /> To help players have an enjoyable time online, a new feature dubbed the "[[asshole|A-hole]] button" allows players to mute annoying players in the game quickly and easily from the in-game scoreboard view.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6165796.html |title=Halo 3 gets shutup button |accessdate=2007-04-28}}</ref> People sifting through the code, as well as those who used a glitch to find their way into the custom game UI, of the ''Halo 3'' Beta have found that the strength of gravity is indeed a customizable option in multiplayer games, confirming statements made by Bungie employees.<ref name="customgrav">{{cite web|url=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/503973679_660e011151.jpg|title=Custom gravity options in Halo 3 Beta menus|accessdate=2007-05-24}}</ref> In addition to existing gametype settings from previous games, new "player traits" allow players to set specific altered abilities to all players and different (if they wish) abilities to the leaders of a game, expanding the amount of gametype customization available still further.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

===Weapons===
[[Image:Copy of Missile Pod Header.jpg|right|thumb|150px|A Spartan Holding a Missle Pod]]
Most of the weapons available in previous installments of the series return with minor cosmetic and power alterations; including the Battle Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Covenant Plasma Rifle, Brute Shot and the Covenant Needler. The now-iconic Assault Rifle which appeared in the original ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]]'' as the MA5B, but was absent from ''[[Halo 2]]'' is returning for ''Halo 3'' retooled into the MA5C. Developer [[Bungie]] hopes it will fill the role as the "ultimate spawn weapon", allowing players to hold their own in a fight straight away (unlike the SMG in ''Halo 2'') but not be so powerful as to overshadow all of the other weapons (like the M6D in ''Halo''). In hopes of fulfilling this, it has a smaller magazine and slower rate of fire than its previous iteration but a longer range, greater accuracy, and more fire power.

''Halo 3'' introduces a new-to-the-series class called "support weapons". These are a group of exceptionally large, powerful and cumbersome two-handed weapons that, when carried, change the view to a third-person perspective and cause the player to move more slowly. The two weapons available in this class during the Public Beta were the Machine Gun Turret and Missile Pod, although a [[Flamethrower]] also features in this class as well as a new covenant plasma turret.<ref name="ignburning">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html |title = Burn, Baby! Burn! |accessdate = 2007-08-10 |author = Hilary Goldstein |authorlink = IGN |date = [[2007-08-10]] |format = HTML |work = IGN Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |pages =1–2 }}</ref>

As a visual change to the weapons, when a player is carrying a second weapon in ''Halo 3'', the secondary weapon will be stored on the character's back (for larger, two-handed weapons) or on a leg holster (for smaller, one-handed weapons). This makes it impossible to "hide" a powerful secondary weapon and surprise unsuspecting foes.

===Equipment===
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The 30 seconds of fun has become 30 seconds of fun and five of total astonishment."|source=—Jaime Griesemer, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}

A new class of usable items in ''Halo 3'' are known as ''Equipment''. These items have various effects and functions, ranging from defensive effects (Bubble Shield and Regenerator), or objects which blind or confuse the enemy (Flare<ref name="edge179" /> and Radar Jammer), to ones which can actually harm and kill (Power Drainer and Tripmine). Most of these are named by their function.

They are not designed to give one player a significant advantage, as they affect both sides equally, but as items which change the dynamic of a fight momentarily. The Bubble Shield, for example, produces a protective dome but, a person inside cannot fire out, just as a person outside cannot fire in. This creates a stalemate situation until the Bubble Shield fails, or players move through the shield onto one side of it. Equally, once the Portable Gravity Lift is dropped it can be used by both sides to gain greater height into the air, often to get over specific obstacles.

[[Image:Halo 3 Equipment.jpg|left|thumb|225px|A small selection of equipment available in Halo 3.]]

===Vehicles===
''Halo 3'', like its predecessors, will also feature a strong vehicular component. Vehicles, and their countermeasures (rockets, mines, etc.), are tightly integrated with ''Halo'' gameplay. Many of the series' vehicles are returning in the third installment. Vehicles cover a wide range of types, including light [[reconnaissance]] vehicles, large, heavily armoured [[tanks]], troop and vehicle transport craft, plus various atmospheric and spacecraft, though not all are usable by the player.

The Mongoose ATV, a small quad bike, originally designed for [[Halo 2]] but later cut out, is available as a vehicle in ''Halo 3''. A second player can ride on the back of the vehicle to provide some offensive capability. There will also be a new variant of [[Warthog]], with rear seats for troops instead of a gun, and a light human aircraft called the Hornet which is similar in function to the [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]]. They can both be seen briefly in the [[E3 2007]] video. The Hornet will not feature in Matchmaking because it is "too overpowered" and thus will only be accessible in custom games, Campaign, or the Forge gametype.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] }}</ref>

There are also two entirely new [[The Covenant (Halo)#Brute|Brute]] vehicles, dubbed the "Brute Chopper" and "Brute Prowler" to expand the "Brute sandbox". Unlike other vehicles attributed to The Covenant in the game, that entirely hover or fly above the ground, the Chopper has a single large and heavy wheel on the front with a hovering driver seat behind. <ref name="chopper">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=chopperfiction |title = The Brute Chopper |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-06]] |format = HTML /ASP |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> It has been referred to as a "vehicle smasher," able to destroy other vehicles with a single hit. Insofar it has only been seen in the [[E3 2007]] [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|Trailer]]. The Brute Prowler however, is closer in function to a Brute version of the Warthog.<ref name="egmseptember" /> It has a plasma turret in front, a driver in back, and two side seats, similar to the Covenant [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Spectre|Spectre]] in [[Halo 2]].

The [[The Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]] aircraft and [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Wraith|Wraith]] tank have been altered in terms of gameplay. The Banshee now has the ability to fire its Fuel Rod Gun in multiplayer matches, an ability which was formerly restricted to Campaign and the multiplayer of [[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]] for [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] and [[Macintosh|Mac]]. But as a trade-off it can no longer point directly down. The Wraith can now carry two people instead of one. One drives the vehicle and fires the main cannon, while the other fires the smaller plasma turret. The plasma turret was formerly exclusive to AI in the ''Halo 2'' campaign.

The largest drivable vehicle in the game is a UNSC transport vehicle named "The Elephant".<ref name="egmseptember" /> The vehicle is armed with an anti-aircraft gun at the front, has a Mongoose in its belly, and can transport an additional 2 Mongooses, a Warthog, and a Scorpion tank along with 12 infantry. In multiplayer the vehicle serves as a mobile base where players can respawn, and also holds both the flag and capture points for certain multiplayer objective modes. Because of its size, it only features on the largest multiplayer map: Sand Trap, and it is unknown whether it will make an appearance in campaign.

===Miscellaneous===
Fish have been seen on the level "Sierra 117" and it has been confirmed that the player can kill [[fauna]].<ref name="Halo3fishies">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813227p2.html |title = IGN interview with Frankie O'connor |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Patrick Kolan |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = IGN |publisher = IGN.com |quote = Toss a grenade on the shore in High Ground and see what kind of wildlife we have!}}</ref>

The game's 49 [[Xbox LIVE#Gamerscore|achievements]] were revealed on [[June 19]], [[2007]].<ref name="Achievements">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360achievements.org/achievements.php?gameID=274 |title = Halo 3 Achievements |accessdate = 2007-07-30 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-19]] |format = HTML |work = |publisher = Xbox360Achievements.org }}</ref>

==Features==
===Forge===
Forge is a tool that enables players to insert game objects into existing maps. Bungie has stated that this should be considered more a gametype than a tool.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] </ref> Almost all weapons, vehicles, and interactive objects (various crates and barriers) can be spawned, moved and placed into maps with Forge. In an example of its uses, one of the testers was able to place an unusually large number of exploding fusion cores in a large vehicle set to as close an instantaneous respawn as the game would allow, which caused the vehicle to charge wildly around the map.
<ref name="BWU-07-08-03">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12685 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/03/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-05 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=139 |archivedate = 2007-08-04 |quote = [...] placed a RIDICULOUS number of exploding fusion cores [...] respawn times set to as close to "instant" as Forge allows [...] }}</ref>
In games where Forge is enabled, players can switch to the editing mode at any time. While in this mode, a player appears to other players as a [[Forerunner (Halo)#Monitors|Forerunner Monitor]] and is still vulnerable to being attacked and killed. Objects can be spawned into the game in real-time and parameters such as ammo counts (for weapons) and respawn rates can be altered for each object.<ref name="edge179" /> The number of objects that can exist in a map at any one time is limited, however, as each object created takes up a set amount of points from the particular map's limit.<ref name="edge179" />

As well as changing alterations to spawn weapons to assist a player in real-time, altered maps can be saved and then recalled in a normal multiplayer game mode. These altered maps can also be transferred to other players using the ''File Sharing'' features. Modifications made by ''Forge'' can change the way a map plays quite drastically from its original configuration. Forge was also the name of the editing tools included in another Bungie game called Marathon.

===Saved films===
''Halo 3'' will have a feature called ''Saved Films''. This feature allows players to save a copy of the game data of a multiplayer match or campaign session to their Xbox 360's [[hard drive]], so that they may watch it later on. It has been confirmed that you can only save 100 files on a hard drive at a time.<ref name="100 gamesaves">{{cite web |url = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=135 |title = HBO |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Lukems |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = HBO |publisher = bungie.net |quote = Players will be able to save up to 100 total films (this is also referenced to in a podcast that it is all items, so 100 films, or 20 "forges" and 80 films, et cetera}}</ref> Though the public beta's implementation was very limited, its functionality is planned to be extended for the final game.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaSavedFilms |title = Saved Films and File Share |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |work = Halo 3 Beta Guide |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref>

{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="Just think about all those stories you've heard, about that game you played the other night, that awesome thing that happened – well, now you can download it and actually check it out."|source=—Tyson Green, Bungie Studios<ref>{{cite web| title=Halo 3:In-depth Bungie Q&A |url=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800901p3.html |last=Kolan |first=Patrick |publisher=IGN.com |date=[[2007-07-01]] |accessdate=2007-08-16}}</ref> }}

Players will be able to view the action from almost any angle and any player's perspective (including a free-roaming camera), as well as being able to slow down the speed and also play the recording in reverse. The Saved Films can even be edited in game to create a shorter clip of a particularly amazing or special moment.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Players can also use the tool to take still pictures from films and upload them to the [[bungie]] website.

As the Saved Films are only the game data (not an actual video), this allows the file sizes to be relatively small. A recording for a typical "long" game is in the region of only 6 [[megabyte|MB]].<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Films will also be played back at whatever resolution the [[Xbox 360]] is set to, regardless of the resolution at which the a player was using at the time of the recording. All games are recreated in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the ''Halo 3'' engine. This allows them to be shared amongst any other [[Xbox 360]] without any compatibility issues because they all run off the same code. The ''Saved Films'' feature is described as an "excellent training aid" since players can gain valuable tactical insight into the strategies of other players by viewing the saved films.<ref name="handson">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/20070511-mulitplayerbeta.htm |title = Hands-On: Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |author = Denny Atkin |date = [[2007-05-11]] |format = HTML |work = Previews on Xbox.com |publisher = Xbox.com }}</ref> Alternatively, they could have a look at other games uploaded through the fileshare.

This feature will also facilitate the creation of [[machinima]] and other game-related videos, as well as give the creators of such videos advanced tools to enhance the quality of this medium. Video game montage creators can save games to the hard drive of their Xbox 360 console for later use, so they never have to miss a camera shot, while machinima directors and cinematographers will have expanded camera options, instead of having to resort to using a first-person, gameplay perspective.

=== File share ===
File Sharing in ''Halo 3'' is an online storage and sharing service for a range of files that are created in the game, and is an extension of the game's online capabilities. Files such as Saved Films, screenshots, custom gametypes and Forge settings can all be uploaded to the ''File Share.'' When the game launches, items stored there then appear on a players [[Bungie.net]] ''Halo 3'' profile, with the ability to comment on them and queue items to download for when the player next plays the game online.<ref name="edge179">{{cite journal |author = Edge (UK) |authorlink = Edge (magazine) |year = 2007 |month = August |title = Finish the Fight |journal = Edge |volume = September 2007 |issue = 179 |pages = 66–77 |issn = 1350-1593 |format = HTML |accessdate = 2007-08-07 |laysummary = http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2007/08/edge_179.php |laysource = Edge-online.co.uk |laydate = 2007-08-04 |quote = }} 
:*'''On Audio:''' ''"- of the 53,595 pieces of audio created by the day we visited, 39,368 were of NPC dialogue"'' 
:*'''On File Sharing:''' ''"Content in players' shared spaces will be shown on Bungie.net, with the ability to post comments and queue clips for download when players next load up the game"'' 
:*'''On Equipment:''' ''"it operates over and above normal combat, [..] that can benefit and disadvantage each side in equal measure."'' 
:*'''On Forge:''' ''"Each object has a certain cost, each map a global budget"''</ref>

Players can view and transfer these files individually to others while they are online, but can also upload them to a central, Bungie run server so friends (or rivals) can then view and download them even when the creating player is not online. During the Beta each player had 25 [[megabyte|MB]] of storage space on the File Share, which may change by the time the final game ships. Bungie announced that players will be able to purchase additional storage space and slots for 750 [[Microsoft Points]], dubbed "Bungie Pro"; all Gold subscribers get 6 file slots and 25MB of storage. Bungie Pro bumps storage up to 24 slots and 250MB. While players with Xbox Live Silver do not have access to the free file-share, they may purchase Bungie Pro to share their files. Bungie has also extended the file-share to their website; players may "flag" files for download (up to 8) on Bungie.net. The next time a user signs on to their Xbox, it will automatically download the flagged files to their hard drive. <ref name="BWU-07-08-17">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12718 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/17/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-19 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-08-17]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=141 |archivedate = 2007-08-17 }}</ref>

==Story==
===Characters===
{{main|Characters in the Halo series}}
The [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] again returns as the main protagonist, with the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] making several major appearances. The other characters below, and some others, have been revealed in promotional media.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!colspan="2"|Playable characters
|-
!Character
!Player
|-
| [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]]
| First
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Arbiter|Arbiter]]
| Second
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#N.E2.80.99tho .E2.80.98Sraom|N’tho ‘Sraom]]
| Third
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Usze .E2.80.98Taham|Usze ‘Taham]]
| Fourth
|-
!colspan="2"|Non-playable characters
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Miranda Keyes|Miranda Keyes]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Cortana]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Sergeant Major A.J. Johnson|A.J. Johnson]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Terrence Hood|Lord Hood]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#The High Prophets|Prophet of Truth]]
|-
|}

===Plot===
The game will not begin right where ''Halo 2'' left off. Instead, the comic mini-series, ''[[Halo: Uprising]]'', will bridge the story gap between the ending of ''Halo 2'', and the beginning of ''Halo 3''.<ref name="H_uprising">{{cite web |url = http://www.halo3.com/html/Halo_Uprising.html |title = Halo: Uprising On Halo3.com |accessdate = 2007-06-22 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-14]] |format = HTML |publisher = Halo3.com |quote = ...the miniseries will bridge the gap between ''Halo 2'' and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated Halo 3 video game... }}</ref> When the game begins, [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] is back on a thoroughly conquered and [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] controlled Earth. Covenant ships are hovering over an excavation site a few miles from the ruins of [[Halo universe#UNSC Planets and Locations|New Mombasa]] and have uncovered a large artifact in this site, and [[Cortana]] is still the prisoner of [[Gravemind]]. The [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]], along with the some [[Covenant Elite|Elites]] have split from the Covenant during the civil war at the end of ''[[Halo 2]]''; it has been hinted that the [[Covenant (Halo)#Grunts|Grunts]] and the [[Covenant (Halo)#Hunters|Hunters]] have joined with the Elites, but recent promotional media show that at least some of the Grunts have sided with the Brutes. The [[Xbox LIVE#Gamer score|Achievements]] show the story mode will be divided into nine main levels, which gives some information about the game's length and an indistinct view of the story arc. Recent promotional items have had a strong memorial feeling to them, hinting at the demise of Master Chief, though strictly through speculative [[circumstantial evidence]].<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/08/03/the-death-of-master-chief-in-halo-3/| authorlink = Falcon, Jonah| title= The Death of Master Chief in Halo 3?| date = [[2007-08-03]]| publisher = [[2old2play.com]]}}</ref>

==Technology==
===Graphics===
[[Image:Halo 3 singleplayer.jpg|thumb|250px|Work-in-progress ''Halo 3'' screenshot of campaign mode originally captured for use in ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''.]]
''Halo 3'' utilizes a proprietary, in-house [[Game engine|graphics engine]], often referred to as the "''Halo 3'' Engine".<ref name="igntrailer">{{cite web |url = http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/706/706251p1.html |title = E3 2k6: Halo 3 Trailer Impressions |accessdate = 2007-06-25 |author = Kathleen Sanders |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = IGN E3 2006 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |quote = ...rendered in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the current version of the Halo 3 engine.}}</ref> This engine builds upon the technologies of the ''Halo 2'' Engine (and previously the ''Halo'' Engine) and is re-optimized for the architecture of the Xbox 360.

As detailed on the [[Bungie Studios]] website, it will employ advanced graphics technologies such as [[High dynamic range rendering|High Dynamic Range]], global lighting, real-time reflections and [[depth of field]] effects within cutscenes.<ref>{{cite web | title =Bungie | url =http://www.bungie.net | accessdate =2007-06-29 }}</ref> Certain surfaces, including the Master Chief's visor (when visible) and the armor of a Ghost, will have real-time reflections (These were, however, not present within the Beta.). Most of the dynamic objects in the game will cast real-time shadows on themselves and the environment around them, including the game's plant life. ''Halo 3'' will use [[Normal mapping|normal]], [[Bump mapping|bump]], and [[parallax mapping]] to give surfaces more detail without dramatically increasing the number of polygons.

Bungie has also stated that the [[draw distance]] of the game will be in excess of {{mi to km|10}}. Sophisticated new atmospheric models are used in the game to replace the traditional [[skybox (video games)|skybox]],<ref>{{cite video | people = alextotherescue | year = 2007 | date = May 25 | title = Halo 3: Sky Testing Part 2 | url = http://youtube.com/watch?v=aFnbhQU0lcY | format = flash | publisher = Clan Hat Trick | accessdate = 2007-05-27}}</ref> allowing several layers of cloud and atmospheric cover, and even a pseudo "space" beyond that.

[[Water]] effects are also dramatically improved, as water can now reflect and refract images simultaneously. As well as being able to simulate effects such as waterfalls, water will visually flow around objects in its path and splash when players, vehicles, or other objects travel through it.

===Physics===
''Halo 3'', like ''[[Halo 2]]'', uses a version of the [[Havok (software)|Havok]] physics engine for much of its physics calculations<ref name="cid12545">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12545 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 06/15/07 |accessdate = 2007-06-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = ..and this isn’t a Havok physics issue, this is a bug with the Halo melee physics...}}</ref> <ref name="havokgames">{{cite web |url = http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/ |title = Havok - Upcoming Releases |accessdate = 2007-07-13 |author = Havok Inc |date = |format = HTML |publisher = Havok.com |quote = The following game titles on current and next-generation Xbox 360 and Playstation®3 platforms will be released utilizing Havok products [...] Halo 3}}</ref> (although parts of the physics, like melee, are done with custom code on top of the [[Game engine#Middleware|middleware]]).

A wide variety of objects are affected by physical interactions in ''Halo 3''. Crates, canisters, objective objects, dropped weapons, characters, bodies, vehicles, and some parts of the world geometry all interact with each other and the world around them in believable physical ways. Trajectories of thrown objects are also affected by the gravity lifts in the game (including the "Mancannon").

Some of the foliage in the game is physically reactive; it not only moves in the simulated wind, but actually reacts to the player's (or other creatures) presence and bullet fire, as well as explosions. Some flora in the game will also be destroyed after receiving enough damage.

===Audio===
As with all titles on the [[Xbox 360]], ''Halo 3'' will fully support [[Surround sound#5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)|5.1 surround sound]] audio. In the game, there will be over 50,000 pieces of audio, with nearly 40,000 of those being NPC dialogue.<ref name="edge179" /> This is many more than in either of the preceding ''Halo'' titles; ''[[Halo 2]]'' had over 15,000 pieces of dialogue. The AI controlling this dialogue is designed to ensure the exchanges flow naturally and convincingly.

Separate recordings have been made for nearby and distant gunfire to make for a more believable sound experience. Distant gunfire sounds, which may first seem like prerecorded ambient sound, may often be the result of an actual firefight happening somewhere in the game. [[Marty O'Donnell]] is again composing the original score. Some pieces of the game's music are produced with a much larger real orchestra than anything in the prior two games. For example, the music for the announcement trailer was recorded with a 60-piece orchestra and a 24-piece [[choir]].<ref name="announcement" /> Voice actors returning to reprise their roles in ''Halo 3'' include: [[Jen Taylor]] as Cortana and [[Steve Downes]] as the voice of Master Chief. Actress [[Julie Benz]], however, is not voicing Miranda Keyes for ''Halo 3''.<ref name="mirandakeyes">{{cite web |url = http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7B586AE81D-35CC-4DE1-AAD8-920B33FDDDFC%7D |title = Dexter's No. 1 Gal — Julie Benz |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author = Matt Webb Mitovich |date = [[2006-12-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = TVGuide.com |quote = Benz: You know what? I am actually not a part of Halo 3. }}</ref>

==Versions==
[[Image:Halo 3 front-1-.jpg|175px|thumb|''Halo 3 Collector's Edition'' cover.]]
[[Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg|175px|thumb||left|''Halo 3 Legendary Edition'' box and helmet.]]

There will be three different versions of ''Halo 3'' for retail sale: the Standard Edition, which contains the game disc and a manual; the Collector's Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive Xbox 360 bonus disc with several featurettes, and Beastiarum, which is a "hard cover, bound collection of information and art covering the species, cultures and civilizations of ''Halo 3''." according to Bungie; and the Legendary Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive bonus disc, Beastiarum, Legendary DVD containing special content exclusive to the Legendary Edition, and a scale replica of the Master Chief's Helmet as a case for the three discs.<ref name="versions">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531 |title = Three Versions of Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-06-08 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-08]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=130 |archivedate = 2007-06-09}}</ref>

{|class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto;"
!valign="right"| Features
!Standard
!Collector's
!Legendary
|-
|Price ([[United States dollar|USD]])
|$59.99
|$69.99
|$129.99
|-
|Price ([[British Pound Sterling|GBP]])
|£39.99
|£44.99
|£69.99
|-
|Price ([[Singapore Dollar|SGD]])
|$69.90
|$79.90
|N.A.
|-
|Game Disc & Manual
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Interactive Xbox 360 Disc
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Beastiarum
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (book)
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (DVD)
|-
|Legendary DVD
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Master Chief Helmet Replica
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|}

==Marketing==
[[Image:GAME FUEL version of Mt. Dew.jpg|thumb|100px|Mountain Dew Game Fuel.]]
{{main|Marketing for Halo 3}}
Various marketing techniques have been employed in promoting the release of ''Halo 3''. This has included various trailers of the game; real-time [[cinematic]]s, recorded [[gameplay]] sequences, pre-rendered [[Computer-generated imagery|CGI]] and even [[live action]] film. Throughout the course of development several "developer documentaries" were released, which explain the processes behind creating parts of the game. A large scale multiplayer Beta test was played on Xbox Live with many members of the public being able to take part and experience the game for themselves. Beginning in June 2007, [[Iris (game)|''Iris'']], an [[alternate reality game]], began on the internet, designed to create hype for the game while involving players in slowing revealing some background information for the game.

In addition to high profile events, Bungie often talked about the game in its Weekly Update, occasionally releasing media of the game on their site. Numerous interviews with Bungie staff have been conducted by many gaming press establishments, covering a vast range of subjects. Magazines and journals also occasionally ran stories revealing new information. [[Pepsi-Cola]] have announced a new line of soft drink, a variant of [[Mountain Dew]] named [[Marketing for Halo 3#Mountain Dew Game Fuel|Game Fuel]]. The packaging reflects ''Halo 3'', sporting images of [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/809/809612p1.html |title=Halo 3 Box Arrives at IGN Offices |accessdate=2007-08-22 |publisher=IGN }}</ref> As ''Halo 3'' draws nearer to completion and release the marketing drive is set to increase. Much of the advertising to date has focused on appealing to the general public, rather than just hardcore fans of the game. Microsoft announced on [[August 9]], [[2007]], that [[pre-order]]s for ''Halo 3'' had exceeded one million in North America.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20196977/| title=‘Halo 3’ breaks pre-order record | publisher=msnbc.com |date=[[2007-08-09]] | accessdate=2007-08-19}}</ref> However, has not yet equalled ''Halo 2''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s record-setting 1.5 million pre-orders.<ref>{{cite news | title=Halo 3 Passes 1M Pre-Orders|publisher=[[1UP.com]]|date=[[2007-08-09]]|first=Mark |last=Whiting|accessdate=2007-08-14 |url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161856}}</ref> Some [[7-Eleven]] stores have recently begun advertising ''Halo 3'' and will be selling copies of the game.<ref>{{cite web| url=http://www.xbox360rally.com/reserve-halo-3-at-7-11-today/ |title=Reserve Halo 3 at 7-11 TODAY! |accessdate=2007-08-22 |date=[[2007-08-06]] |publisher=Xbox 360 Rally}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Iris (game)|''Iris'' (game)]]
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*[[Halo universe]]
*[[Bungie Studios]]
*[[Microsoft Game Studios]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.halo3.com Official site]
*[http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Halo3/default.aspx Official ''Halo 3'' site at Bungie.net]
*[http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/ ''Halo 3'' at Xbox.com]
*[http://www.halo3countdown.com ''Halo 3'' Countdown]
*[[Wikia:Halo:Halo 3|''Halo 3'' article at Halopedia]]
*[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]

{{Halo series}}
{{Bungie Studios}}

[[Category:2007 video games]]
[[Category:Video game sequels]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360-only games]]
[[Category:Halo games]]
[[Category:Cooperative video games]]

[[es:Halo 3]]
[[fr:Halo 3]]
[[it:Halo 3]]
[[nl:Halo 3]]
[[ja:Halo 3]]
[[no:Halo 3]]
[[pl:Halo 3]]
[[fi:Halo 3]]
[[sv:Halo 3]]

Talk:Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:50:59Z

Duff man2007: /* Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay */

User talk:SpigotMap

2007-09-12T04:49:35Z

Duff man2007: /* Okay buddy, you want to play this way? */ new section

<div style="position:absolute; right:13px; top:5px;">[[image:Flag of Russia.svg|100px]]</div>
{| width="100%" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="10" style="background:#7399BF; border-style:solid; border-width:2px; border-color:#566473;"
| width="55%" valign="top" style="padding: 0; margin:0;" |
<div style="float:right; width:100%">
{{divbox|blue|<center>Welcome to my talk page|Please leave any messages for me at the bottom of this page.</center>}}
{{archive box|auto=yes}}
== What In The Sacred Name Of Arceus Is Going On? ==

To be honest I've been observing the whole edit warring that's gone on ever since last Thursday. This is just insane. What's going on anyway? As far as I can tell it has something to do with images and dates? -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 23:41, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah, I got carried away. He's just here to cause trouble/disrupt things. If he believes something is his way, he will just keep reverting it. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 00:01, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
::I'm mostly talking out of bewilderment here. If what I asked sounded like a scolding with a fingerwagging, I didn't mean it as such and I would be lying if I said I haven't accidentally done 3RR myself. Though I did decide to reword your comment, as pointing out Crystalflame the way you did is probably close to a personal attack (even if you didn't mean it as such). You might want to handle things a bit more carefully in the future but I think you've handled yourself better this time around. Cheers and happy editing. :) -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 00:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== ummmmmmmm ==
Its just the Central African Republics Independence day, cant I wish it a happy birthday? It is such a crime? --[[User:LutonAirport|LutonAirport]] 09:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

jeez take a chill pill , I am just wishing a country a happy birthday. Hey and Im a white guy! Are you proud to be white? --[[User:LutonAirport|LutonAirport]] 09:53, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

==Image tagging==
Referring to [[:Image:Nicole-richie-elle-magazine-03.jpg]] false csd deletion notice, please see [[WP:CSD|speedy deletion criteria]] again. Best, [[User:Feydey|feydey]] 10:34, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

==Thanks==
Thank you for helping out on my talk page. I have now blocked the newly-registered user, regrettably. Regards, [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] | [[User talk:Ground Zero|t]] 15:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Would you like your user page and talk page protected? [[User:Ground Zero|Ground Zero]] | [[User talk:Ground Zero|t]] 16:10, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

==Here we go...==
We have a lunatic on our hands. It's at times like these that you wish you had admin powers... =P [[User:TheIslander|'''The''''''Islander''']] 16:09, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

== [[The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time]] ==

Do you happen to see an improvement in the quality of the article? Well, anyways, I'm off. Gonna go on a scheduled [[WP:BREAK|Wikibreak]] that will last for a day or two. Good luck to you, SpigotMap, and happy editing. [[User:LOZ: OOT|LOZ]]: [[User talk:LOZ: OOT|OOT]] 20:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

== Er . . . ==

I don't meant to sound like a bully or anything, but referring to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AList_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_%281-20%29&diff=151913453&oldid=151913164| this edit], it's not a good idea to [[WP:BEANS|shove beans up one's nose]]. Not really a warning, but just a tip. :) -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 22:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

==Regards on Habbo article==

[[Wikipedia Vandalism|Vandalism]] is defined as an attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia.

My edit was to inform people interested in Habbo Hotel that Habbo is not as safe as it seems, not a bad-faith effort to destroy Wikipedia. Please consider refraining from warning people of permanently banning them by looking at the details first.

==[[Brock University Students' Union]]==
Generally I find students unions to be notable. However, I don't think we need to know how much the campus pub charges for a [[Pepsi|drink]], or who the last President of the organization was. Just remind them that they need to [[WP:CITE|cite sources]]. Thanks for the help! [[User:GreenJoe|GreenJoe]] 04:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

==[[Kwantlen Student Association]]==
If you have 5 seconds, I need someone to give [[Kwantlen Student Association]] a look over for facts and POV. Also some back up on the [[Talk:Kwantlen Student Association|talk page]] would be great. Thanks. [[User:GreenJoe|GreenJoe]] 04:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

==[[Talk:University of Alberta Students' Union]]==
At [[Talk:University of Alberta Students' Union]], we're discussing why the Presidents don't merit inclusion. [[User:GreenJoe|GreenJoe]] 04:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

==[[Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus]]==
Turks and Russians are nice friend countries of each other. You, being a side in the Cyprus dispute, are not regarded nice in this friendship. Never forget: Your frindship to Greek Cypriots make you gain a market of only 600 000 whereas make you lose a market of 75 million Turkey!! You are expected to behave logically. Think that in 2007 in Antalya, Turkey there was opened a Russian School!! Never destroy the friendship!, you - Russians-, loses otherwise [[User:GreekHonorous|GreekHonorous]] 08:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your warnings. So, if you are an admin of Wikipedia you can '''really protect''' the indicated pages. Thank you [[User:GreekHonorous|GreekHonorous]] 08:45, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

== [[Moonlight flit]] ==

Greetings. I thought that is was a little strange that you tagged this article with a db-repost tag, considering that when it was deleted before, it was at the author's own request and not because of an AfD or a more forceful speedy deletion criterion. I've retagged it with the more appropriate db-band tag. --[[User:Finngall|Finngall]] [[User Talk:Finngall|talk]] 09:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

== Supportissues783 ==

Well now. That'll teach you not to be so patient and kind to people!;-) Your friend has been duly blocked for her charming outburst and vandalism. Cheers, '''[[User talk:Sarah|Sarah]]''' 10:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

== An Apology ==

Hi. I am very sorry for the issue with the Wallis and Futuna Islands thing. Basically I have a fantasy football team, and in this competition you may choose which country you are from, and the winner from each country gets through to a final showdown in the final week. Therefore - pretending that I am from Wallis and Futuna Islands gives me the highest chance of winning. I was having a joke with my friend, who I was trying to convince I am from there, and making up a national anthem in the style of Borat, i just thought was funny. Apologies Again.
From Dave —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Pourtoivivien|Pourtoivivien]] ([[User talk:Pourtoivivien|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pourtoivivien|contribs]]){{#if:10:54, August 21, 2007 (UTC)| 10:54, August 21, 2007 (UTC)}}. 

== sock puppetry my EYE ==

i prefer the term "multi account vandal mania" —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Day Wrecker Core Ha|Day Wrecker Core Ha]] ([[User talk:Day Wrecker Core Ha|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Day Wrecker Core Ha|contribs]]){{#if:08:33, August 22, 2007 (UTC)| 08:33, August 22, 2007 (UTC)}}. 

== August 2007 ==
{{{icon|[[Image:Information.svg|25px]] }}}Please refrain from making test edits in Wikipedia articles, such as those you made to [[:List of Pokémon (201-220)]], even if your ultimate intention is to fix them. Such edits appear to be [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment again, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Thank you. ''don't do that anymore, lulz'' [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 22:57, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

== Smile! ==

<div style="float:center; border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px; vertical-align: middle;" class="plainlinks">[[Image:Smiley.svg|left|62px]]

WarthogDemon has smiled at you! Smiles promote [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|WikiLove]] and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing! {{{2|}}} Smile at others by adding {{tls|Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
</div> And out of curiosity, why did you place a warning to yourself? -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 00:37, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
:[[User:24.76.181.253]] was actually giving misleading information, not trivia. They don't make the cards for Pokemon before the Pokemon appear in the games/anime. :) And even if they did, such a thing could be fixed. -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 01:58, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

== My Trivia Section ==

How come you erased my Trivia section in the [[Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea]] article. I mean, I saw what you said about it, but you could have edited it to, "this seems like a blatant reference..." instead of deleting the whole thing from existence. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Armageddon1994|Armageddon1994]] ([[User talk:Armageddon1994|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Armageddon1994|contribs]]) 04:59, August 25, 2007 (UTC) 

== [[Michelle (Futurama)]] ==

Hi, saw your edit to [[List of recurring human characters from Futurama]] regarding Michelle not needing her own page. Thought I'd let you know I fully agree with that assessment and that I'd make you aware that the page has already been created at [[Michelle (Futurama)]]. I'm going to try redirecting it but since I don't expect that to really work I thought I'd get somebody else to keep an eye on it... [[User:Stardust8212|Star]][[User talk:Stardust8212|dust]][[Special:Contributions/Stardust8212|8212]] 17:34, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

== Pokèmon List Reverts ==

Nah, I don't think you're really being harsh. Though it's good to keep in mind that perhaps some of them are wanting to bring the gameguidish content back from the articles, but others are probably just trying to help out the best way they can. Quite a few of them are probably little kids wanting to help conribute to Wikipedia, and how many of them will know what a [[Zorki|zorki]] is? Er, well that's how I see it at any rate. :) That's why I usually don't give them any warnings on talk pages unless a) they're putting in misinformation that they may or may not know isn't true, or b) consistently doing it more than 5 times. I suppose the bottom line is, give them a little extra slack. As long as you're not warning them on their talk pages right off the bat, you're doing fine. :) -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 00:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
:Actually I have thought of something: When undoing one of the edits, it might be a good idea to explain why but leave out the "undid X's edit identified as vandalism back to Y's edit" bit. -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 19:28, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
::Ah okay. :) That was just an fyi since I hadn't looked at all you reverts. (I, like you probably, watch ALL the Pokemon lists; my watchlist tends to grow in bursts at times.) You do seem to be doing a good job though. :) Cheers! -[[User:WarthogDemon|WarthogDemon]] 19:51, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

==Hooray for you!==
I'm enjoying sharing the recentchanges patrol with you right now. You're fast and accurate, and you remember to put warnings on userpages. I like you. -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]] ([[User talk:FisherQueen|Talk]]) 20:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

== User page for speedy deletion ==

Hi, I marked this page as it's a copy of an already speedily deleted nn band bio and this user has been vandalising the project (already reported to WP:AIV). As he's not here to help the project I don't see why he should be allowed to use his userpage for free advertising for his band. This isn't an appropiate use for a user page. [[User:Exxolon|Exxolon]] 18:48, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

== Dogfighting Controversy Revert War ==

Please stop violating wiki policy by continuing the revert war over FACTUAL RELEVENT NON BIASED statements made by these players about dogfighting. There is no reason to keep them off their pages... they don't violate wiki NPOV policy or any other wiki policy. They are relevent info that belongs on these pages.

See Keith Hernanez's bio - we have put up his controversial comments about women and baseball. The bottom line is these statements are not at all biased and belong on his page.

Please stop violating wikipedia policy by revert deleting them. Feel free to change how they are presented but they belong on the page. See Wiki policy:

"Be respectful to others and their points of view. This means primarily: Do not simply revert changes in a dispute. When someone makes an edit you consider biased or inaccurate, improve the edit, rather than reverting it. Provide a good edit summary when making significant changes that other users might object to. The revision you would prefer will not be established by reverting, and repeated reverting is forbidden; discuss disputed changes on the talk page. If you encounter rude or inappropriate behavior, resist the temptation to respond unkindly, and do not make personal attacks."

I emphasize the policy on refraining from reversions.

:Thanks for your help with this - if you haven't seen it already: [[Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/70.143.68.157]]. Take care. [[User:Jmfangio|Juan Miguel Fangio]]|[[User_talk:Jmfangio| ►Chat ]] 05:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

::No problem my friend. I picked it up on New User Contribs and immediately noticed his single use of the new account to add the information back in to the article. I had to deal recently with a new editor wanting to add useless information across 10 different articles I watch. He was blocked twice and still continued. Hopefully this does not turn out to be the same type of case. I have also warned the other editor on your talk page for making legal threats against you. Cheers! [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 05:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

:::I hope you don't mind the refractor - i just wanted you to be able to follow the convo. (we can always put this on mine). If you ever see this type of behavior elsewhere, please feel free to keep my username on file so to speak. Be well and thanks for the aide! [[User:Jmfangio|Juan Miguel Fangio]]|[[User_talk:Jmfangio| ►Chat ]] 05:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:Barnstar_of_Reversion2.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thank you for spending the time to protect the content. [[User:Jmfangio|Juan Miguel Fangio]]|[[User_talk:Jmfangio| ►Chat ]] 05:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
|}

== your warning to me ==

Look, I appreciate the notification about legal threats. But there is such a thing as freedom of speech and blocking that speech by accusing someone of being a sockpuppet has ramifications. jmfangio has been accusing various others of sock puppetry. The first time I logged on I didn't have a user name. The second time, when I reverted to my own edit, I did. Alas, I am one in the same. It is humorous to comtemplate that a person would go to such an extent and create a second account to make very factual remarks about Stephon Marbury. My main concern with the content is that "Mr. Good Guy" should be shown to have questionable judgement as he evidenced. He chased off Larry Brown for that matter. For someone as familiar with wiki as jmfangio seems to be (way more than I as I am very new to this), this seems a malicious, defensive move and he has recently done it to others. It's a cheap shot.

This quote on the SMarbury page for example is:

He has been named to The Sporting News list of "Good Guys in Sports" three times. He was one of the highest donors to the NBA Player Association's Katrina Relief effort, donating 1 million dollars to the effort.[citation needed] He currently has 7 barbers on hire in Coney Island giving free haircuts to neighborhood children.[citation needed

is no more factual than:

Marbury was quoted as supporting the actions of Atlanta Falcon's quarterback Michael Vick after his arrest for involvement in dogfighting, gambling and animal cruelty. Marbury retracted his support the next day.

Many of us find this fact as significant as say, where he was born. If you think the Vick scandal is dated, I would argue that. It has brought enormous awareness and will revolutionize the penalities for animal cruelty at least in the U.S.. The good stuff should be balanced by the bad stuff.

Yes, I can drop it but the sockpuppetry defense has got to stop.[[User:Bmccarren|Bmccarren]] 00:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

== What was wrong with my edit to [[Pokémon episodes removed from rotation]] ==

you called it vandalism, the edit was made at 14:34, 3 September 2007. please tell me--[[User:Blue eyes gold dragon|Blue-Eyes Gold Dragon]] 02:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

:oh im sorry i didnt read it right--[[User:Blue eyes gold dragon|Blue-Eyes Gold Dragon]] 04:49, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== == I was not vandalizing the page, I added how it was leaked, things that are leaked deserve to go on wikipedia. == ==

I was not vandalizing the page, I added how it was leaked, things that are leaked deserve to go on wikipedia. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Rihanna played the song at the VMAs ==

first off, it's not such an otreagous claime to even mark the thing that makes it look like she did not play it. 2nd off, watch it, she did play it at the vmas —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] ([[User talk:Duff man2007|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Duff man2007|contribs]]) 04:36, 12 September 2007 (UTC) 

== LMFAO do you really expect me to get a digital recorder, record it, and play upload it on youtube? ==

LMFAO do you really expect me to get a digital recorder, record it, and play upload it on youtube?

Look buddy, like I said. Her playing the song at the VMA'S is not an absurd claime, it does not even need to get tagged. And yes, she did play it at the VMAs with Fall Out Boy. I don't even know why i'm arguing with you —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] ([[User talk:Duff man2007|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Duff man2007|contribs]]) 04:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Whether you won't believe it or not, she did play it at the VMAS. ==

Whether you won't believe it or not, she did play it at the VMAS. What makes you think she did not play it? [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:43, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== No, unless there is a reason provided on why you think she did NOT play at the VMAs then it gets left in my way ==

No, unless there is a reason provided on why you think she did NOT play at the VMAs then it gets left in my way

No, unless there is a reason provided on why you think she did NOT play at the VMAs then it gets left in my way

No, unless there is a reason provided on why you think she did NOT play at the VMAs then it gets left in my way

No, unless there is a reason provided on why you think she did NOT play at the VMAs then it gets left in my way [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Okay buddy, you want to play this way? ==

heheeh wow you're going to regret this. I'm going to add a citation needed to ANY unsourced claime I see on Halo 3, is that understood? and unless yuo can can source it, then they WILL be left in. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:48:36Z

Duff man2007: /* Campaign */

<noinclude>{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}</noinclude>
{{future game}}
{{Infobox CVG
|title = Halo 3
|image = [[Image:Halo 3 final boxshot.JPG|256px]]
|developer = [[Bungie Studios]]
|publisher = [[Microsoft Game Studios]]
|designer =
|series = ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]''
|engine = Halo Engine ([[Proprietary]])
|picture format = [[720p]] ([[HDTV]]) 
|version =
|released = {{vgrelease|North America|NA|[[September 25]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12467 |title = Finish the Fight on September 25, 2007 |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie Software |quote = On September 25, 2007, players will be able to finish the fight they started in Halo: Combat Evolved and continued in Halo 2. Halo 3 will release in Europe on September 26, 2007}}</ref> 
{{vgrelease|Europe|EU|[[September 26]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate /> 
{{vgrelease|Japan|JP|[[September 27]] [[2007]]}}<ref name="japrelease">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/games/h/halo3/ |title = Halo 3 Page Xbox Japan |accessdate = 2007-06-15 |author = Microsoft Games Studio |authorlink = Microsoft Game Studios |year = 2007 |format = HTML |publisher = Xbox.com/ja-JP/ |language = Japanese |quote = 発売日: 2007/09/27 }}</ref>
|genre = [[First-person shooter]]
|modes = [[Single player]], [[Co-op]], [[Co-op|Online co-op]], [[Multiplayer]], and [[Online multiplayer]] [[Halo 3#Forge|Forge]] [[Halo 3#Meta-game|Meta-game]]
|ratings = [[Entertainment Software Rating Board|ESRB]]: M [[British Board of Film Classification|BBFC]]: 15<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/1FB3194D3E47659580257341004F4642?OpenDocument|title=Halo 3 BBFC Rating Page|accessdate=2007-08-24}} </ref> 
[[Computer Entertainment Rating Organization|CERO]]: D [[Office of Film and Literature Classification (Australia)|OFLC]]: M<ref>{{web cite|url=http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=46&p=156&sTitle=Halo+3&sTitleExact=1&sMediaGames=1&sDateFromM=1&sDateFromY=2003&sDateToM=10&sDateToY=2007&record=221739|title=HALO 3 Game (Multi Platform)|publisher=The Classification Board and Classification Review Board|accessdate=2007-07-18}}</ref>
|platforms = [[Xbox 360]]
|media = [[DVD-DL]]
|requirements =
|input = [[Gamepad#Xbox 360|Xbox 360 Controller]]
|footnotes =
}}
'''''Halo 3''''', the final [[video game]] in the ''Halo'' trilogy, is an upcoming [[first-person shooter]] by [[Bungie Studios]] for the [[Xbox 360]]. An official announcement on the developer's website states that ''Halo 3'' will end the current [[story arc]] of the [[Halo (series)|''Halo'' trilogy]].<ref name="announcement">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Halo3Announcement |title = Halo 3 Announced |accessdate = 2007-08-06 |author = Achronos |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Bungie |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref> A public [[beta test]] of the multiplayer component of the game occurred between [[May 16]], [[2007]] and [[June 10]], [[2007]].<ref name=multiplayermadness>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=MPBetaAndVidocRelease |title = Inside Bungie: Multiplayer Madness! |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta will go live on May 16th at 12:00 AM PDT and run through June 6th at 11:59 PM PDT}}</ref> The final version of the game is due to be released on [[September 25]], [[2007]]<ref name=releasedate /> in the [[United States]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[Singapore]], [[September 26]], [[2007]] in [[Europe]] and [[September 27]], [[2007]] in [[Japan]]. On [[August 29]], [[2007]], Bungie officially stated that ''Halo 3'' has gone [[Software release life cycle#Gold or general availability release|gold]].<ref name=gold>{{cite web |url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12737 |title=Halo's Gone Gold! |accessdate=2007-08-29 |author=Luke Smith (lukems) |date=2007-08-29 |format=HTML |work=Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref>



==Gameplay==
The gameplay of ''Halo 3'' largely builds upon the previous successful renditions of the franchise. It is a [[first-person shooter]] that, once again, follows the character [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] and his struggle against the [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] and the [[Flood (Halo)|Flood]]. The game's action takes place largely on foot, but there are [[vehicles]] available for the player to use at certain points in the game. As with the other ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]'' titles, the [[multiplayer]] portion of the game is one of the game's most celebrated features, and is one of the reasons for the series' enormous success.

The balance of weapons and objects in the game has been adjusted to better adhere to what Multiplayer Designer Lars Bakken describes as the "Golden Three Things of ''Halo''". These are "weapons, grenades, and mêlée"; all three of which are simultaneously available to a player at all times while on foot (unless they are dual wielding or using one of the new class of support weapons).

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are famously limited to only two weapons at any one time in ''Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overpowered for every type of situation the player might encounter.

The new default controller layout will see the Right Bumper become the "action" button (pick up, reload, board vehicles, activate switches, etc), with the '''X''' button being used for deployment of equipment<ref name="betaquestions">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/04/10/halo-3-video-questions-cleared-up/ |title = Halo 3 video questions cleared up |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Dustin Burg |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |work = Xbox 360 fanboy Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = Xbox360fanboy.com |quote = ..the new bubble shield, trip mine, are 2 of the X button's deployments ...}}</ref> (see ''Equipment'' below). When dual-wielding, weapons can be individually reloaded using either the left or right bumper. Other buttons are unchanged, but '''B''' (melee attack) also will be used to take a stationary gun turret off its tripod for mobile use, becoming one of the game's "support weapons" (see ''Weaponry'' below), <ref name="Kotaku 07-05-11">{{cite video | people = Frank O'connor (presenter), Richard Blakeley (Camera), Michael McWhertor (News Writer) |date = [[2007-05-11]] |title = Kotaku Beta Preview Presentation | url = http://kotaku.com/gaming/has-anyone-here-seen-predator%3F/new-video-of-halo-3-beta-map-weapons-259861.php |format = Flash video/ HTML) |medium = Presentation |publisher = Kotaku.com |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |time = 2:30}}</ref>. As with previous games however, players can still choose to change the default control layout in their game profile to a number of pre-sets. <ref name="betacontrols">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaWhatsNew |title = H3 Public Beta: Whats new? |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML/ASP |work = Guide to the Halo 3 Beta |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The default button layout is one of four available in the Beta }}</ref>

===Campaign===
The only officially broadcast campaign footage released has been at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2006 trailer|E3 2006]] {{fact|date=September}}, the [[Marketing for Halo 3#"Et tu, Brute?" video documentary|"Et Tu, Brute?"]] {{fact|date=September}}
Vidoc and again at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|E3 2007]] {{fact|date=September}}
. There are several distinct types of environments that players will have to traverse in ''Halo 3''; lush jungles, built up towns and sparse desert environments have all been seen. {{fact|date=September}}

Other campaign footage has been shown to people at other gaming conventions such as [[Games Convention|Leipzig]]{{fact|date=September}}
and this is Tsavo Highway, the third level in the game. {{fact|date=September}}

[[AI]] behavior of both enemies and allies in the campaign will be greatly enhanced in ''Halo 3''. Marines' driving and gunning skills on the Warthog, Grunt flanking maneuvers in battle, and Brute "[[Herd behavior|pack mentality]]" have all been mentioned by Bungie as examples of using the power of the Xbox 360 for more than making the game look better. Enemy AI will also have new non-combat behaviors, rather than just sitting around waiting for players to kill them, to make them feel more "alive" and realistic.

====Cooperative play====
[[Image:Halo 3 online co-op.jpg|left|thumb|225px|Master Chief alongside the Arbiter, N’tho ‘Sraom and Usze ‘Taham.]]
''Halo 3'' features up to four player [[cooperative gameplay]] over [[Xbox LIVE]] or [[System Link]] and two player cooperative split-screen.<ref name="soundofsack" /> Although previous games also supported split-screen co-op, system link and XBL variants of this game mode is a first for the series. Players playing split-screen can also join other players over system link and Xbox LIVE for a total of up to four players.

For plot reasons, instead of having each player be an identical [[SPARTAN-II Project|Spartan]] like in previous ''Halo'' games, the first player will play as [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]], the second player the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] and the other two players newly created Elites; [[N’tho ‘Sraom]] and [[Usze ‘Taham]] each with their own backstories. Each player has identical abilities although the starting weapon will be different depending on whether the player is Master Chief or an Elite.<ref name="soundofsack">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack |title = The Tru7h About Co-Op in Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-08-02 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-07-31]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> Master Chief will have the Battle Rifle, while the Elites will be equipped with Carbines depending on which mission they are on.

====Meta-game====
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The ultimate task will be to beat every mission in Legendary difficulty with all skulls turned on in a certain time limit with style... To get the highest possible score."|source=—Brian Jarrard, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}
''Halo 3'' features a "campaign meta-game" in which a player is awarded a numerical score based on their performance while completing a level in the campaign. Points mostly come from defeating enemies, with extra points being awarded for stylish moves such as performing "headshots", or progressing through a level quickly. Finding and activating Skulls, a continuation of [[Halo 2]]'s gameplay-altering [[Easter egg (virtual)|easter eggs]], allows a player to obtain even higher scores in the meta-game. As it records individual performance for each player, the meta-game also introduces a competitive aspect to co-op play. If a player themselves die, or kill a co-op teammate however, they will lose points.<ref name="edge179" /> Campaign play also unlocks even more armor permutations for use in multiplayer.<ref name="screenshotsgalore">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12616 |title = Way Beyond the Beta: Screenshots Galore |accessdate = 2007-07-04 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-03]] |format = HTML /ASPX |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The C.Q.B. (Close Quarters Battle) and E.V.A. (Extra Vehicular Activity) variants of Spartans are two of the numerous permutations players will be able to unlock in Halo 3}}</ref>

[[Gamerscore]] is awarded for successfully getting over a certain score in each level,<ref name="Achievements" /> and medals are awarded for specific accomplishments.

===Multiplayer===
[[Image:High Ground Gate.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Halo 3'' multiplayer map High Ground]]
Up to four people can participate in multiplayer match on a single [[Xbox 360]] in ''Halo 3'' via a [[Split screen (computer graphics)|split screen]] layout. Up to sixteen may participate in a single match over a [[LAN]] or [[Xbox Live]]. A combination of some or all of these methods may be combined for a match with up to sixteen players.

Like most multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, ''Halo 3'' will use a customized version of [[TrueSkill]] ranking system for its online matchmaking facilities. ''Halo 3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s matchmaking system will be based on two different ranks, skill and experience (Rating Points or RP). Skill will simply be the TrueSkill rank of the player in a given playlist, and experience (RP) is a linear measure of experience (1 point for each win in the online playlists). Overlaid by a Military rank; so, a player with a designation of a "General" will have played for a longer time than someone who is a "recruit". This is in order to make the system more fair and to reflect the effect of experience on players' profiles.<ref name="1up-3155479"> {{cite web |url = http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155479 |title = The Five Best Things About Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author= Luke Smith |date = [[2006-11-24]] |format = HTML |work = 1up Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = 1up.com }}</ref> The RP system also has a mechanism built in to dissuade players from excessive quitting from matches, which became a problem for some players in Halo 2. When players quit from a match before it has finished, they will lose 2 RP. So players that regularly quit games, leaving their teammates stranded, may eventually end up having ''negative'' RP.

The UI (user interface) has been redesigned from ''Halo 2'', making it easier to generate a custom game in ''Halo 3'' multiplayer, which can now be saved and shared online with the File Sharing Features. Players will now be able to "advertise" their custom games via [[Xbox Live]] Public; making it easier to find a multiplayer match to a player's taste without having to link up with friends.<ref name="1up-3155479" /> To help players have an enjoyable time online, a new feature dubbed the "[[asshole|A-hole]] button" allows players to mute annoying players in the game quickly and easily from the in-game scoreboard view.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6165796.html |title=Halo 3 gets shutup button |accessdate=2007-04-28}}</ref> People sifting through the code, as well as those who used a glitch to find their way into the custom game UI, of the ''Halo 3'' Beta have found that the strength of gravity is indeed a customizable option in multiplayer games, confirming statements made by Bungie employees.<ref name="customgrav">{{cite web|url=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/503973679_660e011151.jpg|title=Custom gravity options in Halo 3 Beta menus|accessdate=2007-05-24}}</ref> In addition to existing gametype settings from previous games, new "player traits" allow players to set specific altered abilities to all players and different (if they wish) abilities to the leaders of a game, expanding the amount of gametype customization available still further.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

===Weapons===
[[Image:Copy of Missile Pod Header.jpg|right|thumb|150px|A Spartan Holding a Missle Pod]]
Most of the weapons available in previous installments of the series return with minor cosmetic and power alterations; including the Battle Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Covenant Plasma Rifle, Brute Shot and the Covenant Needler. The now-iconic Assault Rifle which appeared in the original ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]]'' as the MA5B, but was absent from ''[[Halo 2]]'' is returning for ''Halo 3'' retooled into the MA5C. Developer [[Bungie]] hopes it will fill the role as the "ultimate spawn weapon", allowing players to hold their own in a fight straight away (unlike the SMG in ''Halo 2'') but not be so powerful as to overshadow all of the other weapons (like the M6D in ''Halo''). In hopes of fulfilling this, it has a smaller magazine and slower rate of fire than its previous iteration but a longer range, greater accuracy, and more fire power.

''Halo 3'' introduces a new-to-the-series class called "support weapons". These are a group of exceptionally large, powerful and cumbersome two-handed weapons that, when carried, change the view to a third-person perspective and cause the player to move more slowly. The two weapons available in this class during the Public Beta were the Machine Gun Turret and Missile Pod, although a [[Flamethrower]] also features in this class as well as a new covenant plasma turret.<ref name="ignburning">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html |title = Burn, Baby! Burn! |accessdate = 2007-08-10 |author = Hilary Goldstein |authorlink = IGN |date = [[2007-08-10]] |format = HTML |work = IGN Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |pages =1–2 }}</ref>

As a visual change to the weapons, when a player is carrying a second weapon in ''Halo 3'', the secondary weapon will be stored on the character's back (for larger, two-handed weapons) or on a leg holster (for smaller, one-handed weapons). This makes it impossible to "hide" a powerful secondary weapon and surprise unsuspecting foes.

===Equipment===
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The 30 seconds of fun has become 30 seconds of fun and five of total astonishment."|source=—Jaime Griesemer, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}

A new class of usable items in ''Halo 3'' are known as ''Equipment''. These items have various effects and functions, ranging from defensive effects (Bubble Shield and Regenerator), or objects which blind or confuse the enemy (Flare<ref name="edge179" /> and Radar Jammer), to ones which can actually harm and kill (Power Drainer and Tripmine). Most of these are named by their function.

They are not designed to give one player a significant advantage, as they affect both sides equally, but as items which change the dynamic of a fight momentarily. The Bubble Shield, for example, produces a protective dome but, a person inside cannot fire out, just as a person outside cannot fire in. This creates a stalemate situation until the Bubble Shield fails, or players move through the shield onto one side of it. Equally, once the Portable Gravity Lift is dropped it can be used by both sides to gain greater height into the air, often to get over specific obstacles.

[[Image:Halo 3 Equipment.jpg|left|thumb|225px|A small selection of equipment available in Halo 3.]]

===Vehicles===
''Halo 3'', like its predecessors, will also feature a strong vehicular component. Vehicles, and their countermeasures (rockets, mines, etc.), are tightly integrated with ''Halo'' gameplay. Many of the series' vehicles are returning in the third installment. Vehicles cover a wide range of types, including light [[reconnaissance]] vehicles, large, heavily armoured [[tanks]], troop and vehicle transport craft, plus various atmospheric and spacecraft, though not all are usable by the player.

The Mongoose ATV, a small quad bike, originally designed for [[Halo 2]] but later cut out, is available as a vehicle in ''Halo 3''. A second player can ride on the back of the vehicle to provide some offensive capability. There will also be a new variant of [[Warthog]], with rear seats for troops instead of a gun, and a light human aircraft called the Hornet which is similar in function to the [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]]. They can both be seen briefly in the [[E3 2007]] video. The Hornet will not feature in Matchmaking because it is "too overpowered" and thus will only be accessible in custom games, Campaign, or the Forge gametype.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] }}</ref>

There are also two entirely new [[The Covenant (Halo)#Brute|Brute]] vehicles, dubbed the "Brute Chopper" and "Brute Prowler" to expand the "Brute sandbox". Unlike other vehicles attributed to The Covenant in the game, that entirely hover or fly above the ground, the Chopper has a single large and heavy wheel on the front with a hovering driver seat behind. <ref name="chopper">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=chopperfiction |title = The Brute Chopper |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-06]] |format = HTML /ASP |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> It has been referred to as a "vehicle smasher," able to destroy other vehicles with a single hit. Insofar it has only been seen in the [[E3 2007]] [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|Trailer]]. The Brute Prowler however, is closer in function to a Brute version of the Warthog.<ref name="egmseptember" /> It has a plasma turret in front, a driver in back, and two side seats, similar to the Covenant [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Spectre|Spectre]] in [[Halo 2]].

The [[The Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]] aircraft and [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Wraith|Wraith]] tank have been altered in terms of gameplay. The Banshee now has the ability to fire its Fuel Rod Gun in multiplayer matches, an ability which was formerly restricted to Campaign and the multiplayer of [[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]] for [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] and [[Macintosh|Mac]]. But as a trade-off it can no longer point directly down. The Wraith can now carry two people instead of one. One drives the vehicle and fires the main cannon, while the other fires the smaller plasma turret. The plasma turret was formerly exclusive to AI in the ''Halo 2'' campaign.

The largest drivable vehicle in the game is a UNSC transport vehicle named "The Elephant".<ref name="egmseptember" /> The vehicle is armed with an anti-aircraft gun at the front, has a Mongoose in its belly, and can transport an additional 2 Mongooses, a Warthog, and a Scorpion tank along with 12 infantry. In multiplayer the vehicle serves as a mobile base where players can respawn, and also holds both the flag and capture points for certain multiplayer objective modes. Because of its size, it only features on the largest multiplayer map: Sand Trap, and it is unknown whether it will make an appearance in campaign.

===Miscellaneous===
Fish have been seen on the level "Sierra 117" and it has been confirmed that the player can kill [[fauna]].<ref name="Halo3fishies">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813227p2.html |title = IGN interview with Frankie O'connor |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Patrick Kolan |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = IGN |publisher = IGN.com |quote = Toss a grenade on the shore in High Ground and see what kind of wildlife we have!}}</ref>

The game's 49 [[Xbox LIVE#Gamerscore|achievements]] were revealed on [[June 19]], [[2007]].<ref name="Achievements">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360achievements.org/achievements.php?gameID=274 |title = Halo 3 Achievements |accessdate = 2007-07-30 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-19]] |format = HTML |work = |publisher = Xbox360Achievements.org }}</ref>

==Features==
===Forge===
Forge is a tool that enables players to insert game objects into existing maps. Bungie has stated that this should be considered more a gametype than a tool.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] </ref> Almost all weapons, vehicles, and interactive objects (various crates and barriers) can be spawned, moved and placed into maps with Forge. In an example of its uses, one of the testers was able to place an unusually large number of exploding fusion cores in a large vehicle set to as close an instantaneous respawn as the game would allow, which caused the vehicle to charge wildly around the map.
<ref name="BWU-07-08-03">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12685 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/03/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-05 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=139 |archivedate = 2007-08-04 |quote = [...] placed a RIDICULOUS number of exploding fusion cores [...] respawn times set to as close to "instant" as Forge allows [...] }}</ref>
In games where Forge is enabled, players can switch to the editing mode at any time. While in this mode, a player appears to other players as a [[Forerunner (Halo)#Monitors|Forerunner Monitor]] and is still vulnerable to being attacked and killed. Objects can be spawned into the game in real-time and parameters such as ammo counts (for weapons) and respawn rates can be altered for each object.<ref name="edge179" /> The number of objects that can exist in a map at any one time is limited, however, as each object created takes up a set amount of points from the particular map's limit.<ref name="edge179" />

As well as changing alterations to spawn weapons to assist a player in real-time, altered maps can be saved and then recalled in a normal multiplayer game mode. These altered maps can also be transferred to other players using the ''File Sharing'' features. Modifications made by ''Forge'' can change the way a map plays quite drastically from its original configuration. Forge was also the name of the editing tools included in another Bungie game called Marathon.

===Saved films===
''Halo 3'' will have a feature called ''Saved Films''. This feature allows players to save a copy of the game data of a multiplayer match or campaign session to their Xbox 360's [[hard drive]], so that they may watch it later on. It has been confirmed that you can only save 100 files on a hard drive at a time.<ref name="100 gamesaves">{{cite web |url = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=135 |title = HBO |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Lukems |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = HBO |publisher = bungie.net |quote = Players will be able to save up to 100 total films (this is also referenced to in a podcast that it is all items, so 100 films, or 20 "forges" and 80 films, et cetera}}</ref> Though the public beta's implementation was very limited, its functionality is planned to be extended for the final game.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaSavedFilms |title = Saved Films and File Share |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |work = Halo 3 Beta Guide |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref>

{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="Just think about all those stories you've heard, about that game you played the other night, that awesome thing that happened – well, now you can download it and actually check it out."|source=—Tyson Green, Bungie Studios<ref>{{cite web| title=Halo 3:In-depth Bungie Q&A |url=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800901p3.html |last=Kolan |first=Patrick |publisher=IGN.com |date=[[2007-07-01]] |accessdate=2007-08-16}}</ref> }}

Players will be able to view the action from almost any angle and any player's perspective (including a free-roaming camera), as well as being able to slow down the speed and also play the recording in reverse. The Saved Films can even be edited in game to create a shorter clip of a particularly amazing or special moment.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Players can also use the tool to take still pictures from films and upload them to the [[bungie]] website.

As the Saved Films are only the game data (not an actual video), this allows the file sizes to be relatively small. A recording for a typical "long" game is in the region of only 6 [[megabyte|MB]].<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Films will also be played back at whatever resolution the [[Xbox 360]] is set to, regardless of the resolution at which the a player was using at the time of the recording. All games are recreated in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the ''Halo 3'' engine. This allows them to be shared amongst any other [[Xbox 360]] without any compatibility issues because they all run off the same code. The ''Saved Films'' feature is described as an "excellent training aid" since players can gain valuable tactical insight into the strategies of other players by viewing the saved films.<ref name="handson">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/20070511-mulitplayerbeta.htm |title = Hands-On: Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |author = Denny Atkin |date = [[2007-05-11]] |format = HTML |work = Previews on Xbox.com |publisher = Xbox.com }}</ref> Alternatively, they could have a look at other games uploaded through the fileshare.

This feature will also facilitate the creation of [[machinima]] and other game-related videos, as well as give the creators of such videos advanced tools to enhance the quality of this medium. Video game montage creators can save games to the hard drive of their Xbox 360 console for later use, so they never have to miss a camera shot, while machinima directors and cinematographers will have expanded camera options, instead of having to resort to using a first-person, gameplay perspective.

=== File share ===
File Sharing in ''Halo 3'' is an online storage and sharing service for a range of files that are created in the game, and is an extension of the game's online capabilities. Files such as Saved Films, screenshots, custom gametypes and Forge settings can all be uploaded to the ''File Share.'' When the game launches, items stored there then appear on a players [[Bungie.net]] ''Halo 3'' profile, with the ability to comment on them and queue items to download for when the player next plays the game online.<ref name="edge179">{{cite journal |author = Edge (UK) |authorlink = Edge (magazine) |year = 2007 |month = August |title = Finish the Fight |journal = Edge |volume = September 2007 |issue = 179 |pages = 66–77 |issn = 1350-1593 |format = HTML |accessdate = 2007-08-07 |laysummary = http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2007/08/edge_179.php |laysource = Edge-online.co.uk |laydate = 2007-08-04 |quote = }} 
:*'''On Audio:''' ''"- of the 53,595 pieces of audio created by the day we visited, 39,368 were of NPC dialogue"'' 
:*'''On File Sharing:''' ''"Content in players' shared spaces will be shown on Bungie.net, with the ability to post comments and queue clips for download when players next load up the game"'' 
:*'''On Equipment:''' ''"it operates over and above normal combat, [..] that can benefit and disadvantage each side in equal measure."'' 
:*'''On Forge:''' ''"Each object has a certain cost, each map a global budget"''</ref>

Players can view and transfer these files individually to others while they are online, but can also upload them to a central, Bungie run server so friends (or rivals) can then view and download them even when the creating player is not online. During the Beta each player had 25 [[megabyte|MB]] of storage space on the File Share, which may change by the time the final game ships. Bungie announced that players will be able to purchase additional storage space and slots for 750 [[Microsoft Points]], dubbed "Bungie Pro"; all Gold subscribers get 6 file slots and 25MB of storage. Bungie Pro bumps storage up to 24 slots and 250MB. While players with Xbox Live Silver do not have access to the free file-share, they may purchase Bungie Pro to share their files. Bungie has also extended the file-share to their website; players may "flag" files for download (up to 8) on Bungie.net. The next time a user signs on to their Xbox, it will automatically download the flagged files to their hard drive. <ref name="BWU-07-08-17">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12718 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/17/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-19 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-08-17]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=141 |archivedate = 2007-08-17 }}</ref>

==Story==
===Characters===
{{main|Characters in the Halo series}}
The [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] again returns as the main protagonist, with the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] making several major appearances. The other characters below, and some others, have been revealed in promotional media.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!colspan="2"|Playable characters
|-
!Character
!Player
|-
| [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]]
| First
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Arbiter|Arbiter]]
| Second
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#N.E2.80.99tho .E2.80.98Sraom|N’tho ‘Sraom]]
| Third
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Usze .E2.80.98Taham|Usze ‘Taham]]
| Fourth
|-
!colspan="2"|Non-playable characters
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Miranda Keyes|Miranda Keyes]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Cortana]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Sergeant Major A.J. Johnson|A.J. Johnson]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Terrence Hood|Lord Hood]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#The High Prophets|Prophet of Truth]]
|-
|}

===Plot===
The game will not begin right where ''Halo 2'' left off. Instead, the comic mini-series, ''[[Halo: Uprising]]'', will bridge the story gap between the ending of ''Halo 2'', and the beginning of ''Halo 3''.<ref name="H_uprising">{{cite web |url = http://www.halo3.com/html/Halo_Uprising.html |title = Halo: Uprising On Halo3.com |accessdate = 2007-06-22 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-14]] |format = HTML |publisher = Halo3.com |quote = ...the miniseries will bridge the gap between ''Halo 2'' and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated Halo 3 video game... }}</ref> When the game begins, [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] is back on a thoroughly conquered and [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] controlled Earth. Covenant ships are hovering over an excavation site a few miles from the ruins of [[Halo universe#UNSC Planets and Locations|New Mombasa]] and have uncovered a large artifact in this site, and [[Cortana]] is still the prisoner of [[Gravemind]]. The [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]], along with the some [[Covenant Elite|Elites]] have split from the Covenant during the civil war at the end of ''[[Halo 2]]''; it has been hinted that the [[Covenant (Halo)#Grunts|Grunts]] and the [[Covenant (Halo)#Hunters|Hunters]] have joined with the Elites, but recent promotional media show that at least some of the Grunts have sided with the Brutes. The [[Xbox LIVE#Gamer score|Achievements]] show the story mode will be divided into nine main levels, which gives some information about the game's length and an indistinct view of the story arc. Recent promotional items have had a strong memorial feeling to them, hinting at the demise of Master Chief, though strictly through speculative [[circumstantial evidence]].<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/08/03/the-death-of-master-chief-in-halo-3/| authorlink = Falcon, Jonah| title= The Death of Master Chief in Halo 3?| date = [[2007-08-03]]| publisher = [[2old2play.com]]}}</ref>

==Technology==
===Graphics===
[[Image:Halo 3 singleplayer.jpg|thumb|250px|Work-in-progress ''Halo 3'' screenshot of campaign mode originally captured for use in ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''.]]
''Halo 3'' utilizes a proprietary, in-house [[Game engine|graphics engine]], often referred to as the "''Halo 3'' Engine".<ref name="igntrailer">{{cite web |url = http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/706/706251p1.html |title = E3 2k6: Halo 3 Trailer Impressions |accessdate = 2007-06-25 |author = Kathleen Sanders |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = IGN E3 2006 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |quote = ...rendered in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the current version of the Halo 3 engine.}}</ref> This engine builds upon the technologies of the ''Halo 2'' Engine (and previously the ''Halo'' Engine) and is re-optimized for the architecture of the Xbox 360.

As detailed on the [[Bungie Studios]] website, it will employ advanced graphics technologies such as [[High dynamic range rendering|High Dynamic Range]], global lighting, real-time reflections and [[depth of field]] effects within cutscenes.<ref>{{cite web | title =Bungie | url =http://www.bungie.net | accessdate =2007-06-29 }}</ref> Certain surfaces, including the Master Chief's visor (when visible) and the armor of a Ghost, will have real-time reflections (These were, however, not present within the Beta.). Most of the dynamic objects in the game will cast real-time shadows on themselves and the environment around them, including the game's plant life. ''Halo 3'' will use [[Normal mapping|normal]], [[Bump mapping|bump]], and [[parallax mapping]] to give surfaces more detail without dramatically increasing the number of polygons.

Bungie has also stated that the [[draw distance]] of the game will be in excess of {{mi to km|10}}. Sophisticated new atmospheric models are used in the game to replace the traditional [[skybox (video games)|skybox]],<ref>{{cite video | people = alextotherescue | year = 2007 | date = May 25 | title = Halo 3: Sky Testing Part 2 | url = http://youtube.com/watch?v=aFnbhQU0lcY | format = flash | publisher = Clan Hat Trick | accessdate = 2007-05-27}}</ref> allowing several layers of cloud and atmospheric cover, and even a pseudo "space" beyond that.

[[Water]] effects are also dramatically improved, as water can now reflect and refract images simultaneously. As well as being able to simulate effects such as waterfalls, water will visually flow around objects in its path and splash when players, vehicles, or other objects travel through it.

===Physics===
''Halo 3'', like ''[[Halo 2]]'', uses a version of the [[Havok (software)|Havok]] physics engine for much of its physics calculations<ref name="cid12545">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12545 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 06/15/07 |accessdate = 2007-06-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = ..and this isn’t a Havok physics issue, this is a bug with the Halo melee physics...}}</ref> <ref name="havokgames">{{cite web |url = http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/ |title = Havok - Upcoming Releases |accessdate = 2007-07-13 |author = Havok Inc |date = |format = HTML |publisher = Havok.com |quote = The following game titles on current and next-generation Xbox 360 and Playstation®3 platforms will be released utilizing Havok products [...] Halo 3}}</ref> (although parts of the physics, like melee, are done with custom code on top of the [[Game engine#Middleware|middleware]]).

A wide variety of objects are affected by physical interactions in ''Halo 3''. Crates, canisters, objective objects, dropped weapons, characters, bodies, vehicles, and some parts of the world geometry all interact with each other and the world around them in believable physical ways. Trajectories of thrown objects are also affected by the gravity lifts in the game (including the "Mancannon").

Some of the foliage in the game is physically reactive; it not only moves in the simulated wind, but actually reacts to the player's (or other creatures) presence and bullet fire, as well as explosions. Some flora in the game will also be destroyed after receiving enough damage.

===Audio===
As with all titles on the [[Xbox 360]], ''Halo 3'' will fully support [[Surround sound#5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)|5.1 surround sound]] audio. In the game, there will be over 50,000 pieces of audio, with nearly 40,000 of those being NPC dialogue.<ref name="edge179" /> This is many more than in either of the preceding ''Halo'' titles; ''[[Halo 2]]'' had over 15,000 pieces of dialogue. The AI controlling this dialogue is designed to ensure the exchanges flow naturally and convincingly.

Separate recordings have been made for nearby and distant gunfire to make for a more believable sound experience. Distant gunfire sounds, which may first seem like prerecorded ambient sound, may often be the result of an actual firefight happening somewhere in the game. [[Marty O'Donnell]] is again composing the original score. Some pieces of the game's music are produced with a much larger real orchestra than anything in the prior two games. For example, the music for the announcement trailer was recorded with a 60-piece orchestra and a 24-piece [[choir]].<ref name="announcement" /> Voice actors returning to reprise their roles in ''Halo 3'' include: [[Jen Taylor]] as Cortana and [[Steve Downes]] as the voice of Master Chief. Actress [[Julie Benz]], however, is not voicing Miranda Keyes for ''Halo 3''.<ref name="mirandakeyes">{{cite web |url = http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7B586AE81D-35CC-4DE1-AAD8-920B33FDDDFC%7D |title = Dexter's No. 1 Gal — Julie Benz |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author = Matt Webb Mitovich |date = [[2006-12-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = TVGuide.com |quote = Benz: You know what? I am actually not a part of Halo 3. }}</ref>

==Versions==
[[Image:Halo 3 front-1-.jpg|175px|thumb|''Halo 3 Collector's Edition'' cover.]]
[[Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg|175px|thumb||left|''Halo 3 Legendary Edition'' box and helmet.]]

There will be three different versions of ''Halo 3'' for retail sale: the Standard Edition, which contains the game disc and a manual; the Collector's Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive Xbox 360 bonus disc with several featurettes, and Beastiarum, which is a "hard cover, bound collection of information and art covering the species, cultures and civilizations of ''Halo 3''." according to Bungie; and the Legendary Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive bonus disc, Beastiarum, Legendary DVD containing special content exclusive to the Legendary Edition, and a scale replica of the Master Chief's Helmet as a case for the three discs.<ref name="versions">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531 |title = Three Versions of Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-06-08 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-08]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=130 |archivedate = 2007-06-09}}</ref>

{|class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto;"
!valign="right"| Features
!Standard
!Collector's
!Legendary
|-
|Price ([[United States dollar|USD]])
|$59.99
|$69.99
|$129.99
|-
|Price ([[British Pound Sterling|GBP]])
|£39.99
|£44.99
|£69.99
|-
|Price ([[Singapore Dollar|SGD]])
|$69.90
|$79.90
|N.A.
|-
|Game Disc & Manual
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Interactive Xbox 360 Disc
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Beastiarum
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (book)
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (DVD)
|-
|Legendary DVD
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Master Chief Helmet Replica
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|}

==Marketing==
[[Image:GAME FUEL version of Mt. Dew.jpg|thumb|100px|Mountain Dew Game Fuel.]]
{{main|Marketing for Halo 3}}
Various marketing techniques have been employed in promoting the release of ''Halo 3''. This has included various trailers of the game; real-time [[cinematic]]s, recorded [[gameplay]] sequences, pre-rendered [[Computer-generated imagery|CGI]] and even [[live action]] film. Throughout the course of development several "developer documentaries" were released, which explain the processes behind creating parts of the game. A large scale multiplayer Beta test was played on Xbox Live with many members of the public being able to take part and experience the game for themselves. Beginning in June 2007, [[Iris (game)|''Iris'']], an [[alternate reality game]], began on the internet, designed to create hype for the game while involving players in slowing revealing some background information for the game.

In addition to high profile events, Bungie often talked about the game in its Weekly Update, occasionally releasing media of the game on their site. Numerous interviews with Bungie staff have been conducted by many gaming press establishments, covering a vast range of subjects. Magazines and journals also occasionally ran stories revealing new information. [[Pepsi-Cola]] have announced a new line of soft drink, a variant of [[Mountain Dew]] named [[Marketing for Halo 3#Mountain Dew Game Fuel|Game Fuel]]. The packaging reflects ''Halo 3'', sporting images of [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/809/809612p1.html |title=Halo 3 Box Arrives at IGN Offices |accessdate=2007-08-22 |publisher=IGN }}</ref> As ''Halo 3'' draws nearer to completion and release the marketing drive is set to increase. Much of the advertising to date has focused on appealing to the general public, rather than just hardcore fans of the game. Microsoft announced on [[August 9]], [[2007]], that [[pre-order]]s for ''Halo 3'' had exceeded one million in North America.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20196977/| title=‘Halo 3’ breaks pre-order record | publisher=msnbc.com |date=[[2007-08-09]] | accessdate=2007-08-19}}</ref> However, has not yet equalled ''Halo 2''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s record-setting 1.5 million pre-orders.<ref>{{cite news | title=Halo 3 Passes 1M Pre-Orders|publisher=[[1UP.com]]|date=[[2007-08-09]]|first=Mark |last=Whiting|accessdate=2007-08-14 |url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161856}}</ref> Some [[7-Eleven]] stores have recently begun advertising ''Halo 3'' and will be selling copies of the game.<ref>{{cite web| url=http://www.xbox360rally.com/reserve-halo-3-at-7-11-today/ |title=Reserve Halo 3 at 7-11 TODAY! |accessdate=2007-08-22 |date=[[2007-08-06]] |publisher=Xbox 360 Rally}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Iris (game)|''Iris'' (game)]]
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*[[Halo universe]]
*[[Bungie Studios]]
*[[Microsoft Game Studios]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.halo3.com Official site]
*[http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Halo3/default.aspx Official ''Halo 3'' site at Bungie.net]
*[http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/ ''Halo 3'' at Xbox.com]
*[http://www.halo3countdown.com ''Halo 3'' Countdown]
*[[Wikia:Halo:Halo 3|''Halo 3'' article at Halopedia]]
*[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]

{{Halo series}}
{{Bungie Studios}}

[[Category:2007 video games]]
[[Category:Video game sequels]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360-only games]]
[[Category:Halo games]]
[[Category:Cooperative video games]]

[[es:Halo 3]]
[[fr:Halo 3]]
[[it:Halo 3]]
[[nl:Halo 3]]
[[ja:Halo 3]]
[[no:Halo 3]]
[[pl:Halo 3]]
[[fi:Halo 3]]
[[sv:Halo 3]]

Shut Up and Drive

2007-09-12T04:46:25Z

Duff man2007: /* Music video */

{{CurrentSingles}}
{{Infobox Single 
| Name = Shut Up and Drive
| B-Sides = [[Don't Stop The Music]]
| Cover = Shut Up and Drive - Single.PNG
| Artist = [[Rihanna]]
| from Album = [[Good Girl Gone Bad]]
| Released = [[June 12]], [[2007]] ([[U.S.]])<ref>http://fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=69239</ref> [[August 27]], [[2007]] ([[UK]])<ref>http://www.defjam.co.uk/</ref>
| Format = [[12" maxi single]], [[digital download]]
| Recorded = 2007
| Genre = [[Pop rock]]
| Length = 3:33
| Label = [[Def Jam]]
| Writer = [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers|Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers]] & [[New Order]]
| Producer = Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers
| Certification =
| Chart position =
* 4 ([[Australia]], [[Portugal]])
* 5 ([[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]], [[United Kingdom]])
* 6 ([[Canada]])
* 8 ([[Poland]])
* 9 ([[Netherlands]])
* 12 ([[Europe]], [[World]])
* 15 ([[United States]])
* 17 ([[New Zealand]])
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Hate That I Love You]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = [[UK]] singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Don't Stop the Music (Rihanna song)|Don't Stop the Music]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Upper caption = Alternate covers
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic1.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic2.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
}}

"'''Shut Up and Drive'''" is a song written by [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers]] for [[Rihanna]]'s third album ''[[Good Girl Gone Bad]]'' (2007). The track uses a reworked version of [[New Order]]'s "[[Blue Monday (New Order song)|Blue Monday]]" as the main musical theme.<ref>[http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde] ''Wc02.allmusic.com'' </ref> Its lyrics use [[automobile]]s as a metaphor for the persona in an offer of [[sexual intercourse|sex]].<ref name="vv"/> It was released as the second North American single in June 2007 (see [[2007 in music]]).<ref>[http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/3-0&fp=465c3e50374d037d&ei=LMRcRpWoF4-UpQKp1tT6DA&url=http%3A//www.mtv.com/news/articles/1560279/20070523/lohan_lindsay.jhtml&cid=0 MTV].</ref> It debuted on the ''[[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]]'' [[Hot 100]] at number 88 and has so far peaked at number fifteen.<ref name=Reigns>Jonathan Cohen, [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003598985 "Rihanna's 'Umbrella' Reigns Again Atop Hot 100"], Billboard.com, June 14, 2007.</ref>

==Critical reception==
The song has received mixed reviews from music critics. ''[[Slant Magazine]]'' found that the song did not live up to its [[campy]] title,<ref>Cinquemani, Sal. [http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/music_review.asp?ID=1135 "Music Review: Rihanna: Good Girl Gone Bad"]. ''[[Slant Magazine]]''. [[May 22]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> and ''[[The Village Voice]]'' described it as simultaneously "goofy and sexually daring".<ref name="vv">Dugue, Rodney. [http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0723,dugue,76851,22.html "Mediocre Girl Gone Good"]. ''[[The Village Voice]]''. [[June 5]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> [[All Music Guide]], however, referred to it as "a sleek, forthcoming proposition…as undeniable and rocking as [[Sugababes]]' 2002 UK smash '[[Freak Like Me#Sugababes version|Freak Like Me]]'".<ref>Kellman, Andy. [http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jcftxz85ld0e~T00 "Good Girl Gone Bad > Overview"]. [[All Music Guide]]. 2007. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref>

==Music video==
[[Image:ShutUpAndDriveVideo.jpg|left|thumb|Rihanna working on a car in the music video.]]

The song's [[music video]] is directed by [[David LaChapelle]] and is opens with Rihanna driving a [[Ferrari F430]] into a garage. Rihanna and several other girls start working in the car mechanic garage in a suggestive manner, before slamming the hoods down on cue with the first "Shut Up and Drive" part of the lyrics. The video then cuts to a scene where two cars are preparing to race. Rihanna and her friends show up, and Rihanna proceeds to flirt with the two race car drivers through the open windows of their cars at the starting line. She then directs the drivers to "Shut Up and Drive", and they take off. The next scene shows Rihanna performing with her band. Throughout the video, Rihanna is also shown in the car garage, and walking around the race yard.

The video premiered on MTV's ''[[Total Request Live]]'' on [[July 4]], [[2007]]. On [[July 9]], [[2007]], it debuted on the ''TRL'' countdown at number ten for the first time and has been on the countdown for twenty nine days and so far has peaked at #4 as of [[August 20]], [[2007]].

Rihanna's first promotional venues for Shut Up And Drive were on the British [[television]] shows [[This Morning]], [[The Friday Night Project]] and [[DanceX]]. Rihanna also performed Shut Up And Drive in public prior to its release at venues including [[Stripped Music]], [[Live Earth]], [[AOL Music Sessions]], and several concerts not shown on [[television]]. The song is also [[NASCAR]]'s theme song. The song has also been used in the promotional commercial for the [[The CW Television Network | CW]]'s reality television series [[America's Next Top Model]] for Cycle 9, and the new show [[Carpoolers]] on ABC.

Rihanna performed the song on the [[2007 MTV Video Music Awards]].

==Track listing==
;Vinyl CD Single<ref>[http://www.juno.co.uk/products/279088-01.htm Vinyl CD Single]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Instrumental)

;UK CD Single<ref>[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shut-Up-Drive-Rhianna/dp/B000UNBQQY]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)

==Chart performance==
Shut Up and Drive debuted on Australian [[ARIA Charts|ARIA Singles Chart]] at number 4. It also reached at number 12 in [[United World Chart]].

===Charts===
{|class="wikitable"
!align="left"|Chart (2007)
!align="center"|Peak position
|-
|align="left"|[[ARC Weekly Top 40]]<ref>[http://www.rockonthenet.com/charts/arc.htm ARC Weekly Top 40]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|Romanian Top 100
|align="center"|33
|-
|align="left"|Bulgarian Airplay Chart<ref>[http://theveronicas.free.fr/C1300forums/index.php?showtopic=2632]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Australian ARIA Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1U50 Australian Top 50 Singles Chart]. [[ARIA Charts|ARIA]]. Retrieved on [[September 9]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Brazil Hot 100<ref>[http://www.hot100brasil.com/chtsinglesb.html Brazil Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|84
|-
|align="left"|Canadian Hot 100<ref name="billboard">[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Canadian+Hot+100]</ref>
|align="center"|6
|-
|align="left"|[[Dutch Top 40]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|EURO 200<ref>[http://www.euro200.eu/ Euro 200]</ref>
|align="center"|12
|-
|align="left"|Hit List Portugal<ref>[http://www.mtv.pt/mtv.pt/charts/index.jhtml Hit List Portugal]</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Irish Singles Chart<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|New Zealand RIANZ Singles Chart<ref>[http://charts.org.nz/showitem.asp?key=322634&cat=s Rihanna - Shut Up and Drive (song)]. charts.org.nz. Retrieved on [[August 26]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|17
|-
|align="left"|[[Poland|Polish]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Polish-Top50.htm Polish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|8
|-
|align="left"|[[Portuguese]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Portugese-Top50.htm Portuguese Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|28
|-
|align="left"|[[Singapore]] Airplay Chart<ref>[http://www.power98.com.sg/pages/red_hot_30.php Singapore AirplayChart]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Swedish top 60<ref>[http://www.swedishcharts.com/weekchart.asp?cat=s Swedish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|33
|-
|align="left"|Turkey Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.capitalradio.com.tr/hot40/hot40_cr.asp Turkey Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|UK Top 75 Singles<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|[[United World Chart]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|12
|-
|align="left"|U.S. [[Billboard Hot 100|''Billboard'' Hot 100]]<ref name=acharts>[http://acharts.us/song/26455 "Rihanna - Shut Up And Drive global chart positions and trajectories"]. aCharts.us. Retrieved [[July 31]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|15
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' [[Pop 100]]<ref> [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/retrieve_chart_history.do?model.vnuArtistId=658897&model.vnuAlbumId=933955]</ref>
|align="center"|10
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' European Hot 100<ref>[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?f=European+Hot+100+Singles&pageNumber=Top+11-50&g=Singles European Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|16
|-
|}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* [http://music.defjam.com/www2/av_player/AVPlayer.php?av_asset_id=11921&av_link_group_id=558&av_type_id=2&cms_site_id=1 "Shut Up and Drive" music video]
* [http://music.unrealitytv.co.uk/rihanna-shut-up-and-drive/ Review of Shut Up And drive by Unreality Music]

{{Rihanna}}

[[Category:2007 singles]]
[[Category:Pop rock songs]]
[[Category:Rihanna songs]]
[[Category:Songs with sexual themes]]

[[he:Shut Up and Drive]]
[[pl:Shut Up & Drive]]

User talk:SpigotMap

2007-09-12T04:46:07Z

Duff man2007: /* No, unless there is a reason provided on why you think she did NOT play at the VMAs then it gets left in my way */ new section

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:44:53Z

Duff man2007:

<noinclude>{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}</noinclude>
{{future game}}
{{Infobox CVG
|title = Halo 3
|image = [[Image:Halo 3 final boxshot.JPG|256px]]
|developer = [[Bungie Studios]]
|publisher = [[Microsoft Game Studios]]
|designer =
|series = ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]''
|engine = Halo Engine ([[Proprietary]])
|picture format = [[720p]] ([[HDTV]]) 
|version =
|released = {{vgrelease|North America|NA|[[September 25]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12467 |title = Finish the Fight on September 25, 2007 |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie Software |quote = On September 25, 2007, players will be able to finish the fight they started in Halo: Combat Evolved and continued in Halo 2. Halo 3 will release in Europe on September 26, 2007}}</ref> 
{{vgrelease|Europe|EU|[[September 26]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate /> 
{{vgrelease|Japan|JP|[[September 27]] [[2007]]}}<ref name="japrelease">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/games/h/halo3/ |title = Halo 3 Page Xbox Japan |accessdate = 2007-06-15 |author = Microsoft Games Studio |authorlink = Microsoft Game Studios |year = 2007 |format = HTML |publisher = Xbox.com/ja-JP/ |language = Japanese |quote = 発売日: 2007/09/27 }}</ref>
|genre = [[First-person shooter]]
|modes = [[Single player]], [[Co-op]], [[Co-op|Online co-op]], [[Multiplayer]], and [[Online multiplayer]] [[Halo 3#Forge|Forge]] [[Halo 3#Meta-game|Meta-game]]
|ratings = [[Entertainment Software Rating Board|ESRB]]: M [[British Board of Film Classification|BBFC]]: 15<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/1FB3194D3E47659580257341004F4642?OpenDocument|title=Halo 3 BBFC Rating Page|accessdate=2007-08-24}} </ref> 
[[Computer Entertainment Rating Organization|CERO]]: D [[Office of Film and Literature Classification (Australia)|OFLC]]: M<ref>{{web cite|url=http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=46&p=156&sTitle=Halo+3&sTitleExact=1&sMediaGames=1&sDateFromM=1&sDateFromY=2003&sDateToM=10&sDateToY=2007&record=221739|title=HALO 3 Game (Multi Platform)|publisher=The Classification Board and Classification Review Board|accessdate=2007-07-18}}</ref>
|platforms = [[Xbox 360]]
|media = [[DVD-DL]]
|requirements =
|input = [[Gamepad#Xbox 360|Xbox 360 Controller]]
|footnotes =
}}
'''''Halo 3''''', the final [[video game]] in the ''Halo'' trilogy, is an upcoming [[first-person shooter]] by [[Bungie Studios]] for the [[Xbox 360]]. An official announcement on the developer's website states that ''Halo 3'' will end the current [[story arc]] of the [[Halo (series)|''Halo'' trilogy]].<ref name="announcement">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Halo3Announcement |title = Halo 3 Announced |accessdate = 2007-08-06 |author = Achronos |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Bungie |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref> A public [[beta test]] of the multiplayer component of the game occurred between [[May 16]], [[2007]] and [[June 10]], [[2007]].<ref name=multiplayermadness>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=MPBetaAndVidocRelease |title = Inside Bungie: Multiplayer Madness! |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta will go live on May 16th at 12:00 AM PDT and run through June 6th at 11:59 PM PDT}}</ref> The final version of the game is due to be released on [[September 25]], [[2007]]<ref name=releasedate /> in the [[United States]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[Singapore]], [[September 26]], [[2007]] in [[Europe]] and [[September 27]], [[2007]] in [[Japan]]. On [[August 29]], [[2007]], Bungie officially stated that ''Halo 3'' has gone [[Software release life cycle#Gold or general availability release|gold]].<ref name=gold>{{cite web |url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12737 |title=Halo's Gone Gold! |accessdate=2007-08-29 |author=Luke Smith (lukems) |date=2007-08-29 |format=HTML |work=Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref>



==Halo 3 aussie leek==
HALO 3 AUSSIE LINK

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

==Gameplay==
The gameplay of ''Halo 3'' largely builds upon the previous successful renditions of the franchise. It is a [[first-person shooter]] that, once again, follows the character [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] and his struggle against the [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] and the [[Flood (Halo)|Flood]]. The game's action takes place largely on foot, but there are [[vehicles]] available for the player to use at certain points in the game. As with the other ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]'' titles, the [[multiplayer]] portion of the game is one of the game's most celebrated features, and is one of the reasons for the series' enormous success.

The balance of weapons and objects in the game has been adjusted to better adhere to what Multiplayer Designer Lars Bakken describes as the "Golden Three Things of ''Halo''". These are "weapons, grenades, and mêlée"; all three of which are simultaneously available to a player at all times while on foot (unless they are dual wielding or using one of the new class of support weapons).

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are famously limited to only two weapons at any one time in ''Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overpowered for every type of situation the player might encounter.

The new default controller layout will see the Right Bumper become the "action" button (pick up, reload, board vehicles, activate switches, etc), with the '''X''' button being used for deployment of equipment<ref name="betaquestions">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/04/10/halo-3-video-questions-cleared-up/ |title = Halo 3 video questions cleared up |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Dustin Burg |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |work = Xbox 360 fanboy Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = Xbox360fanboy.com |quote = ..the new bubble shield, trip mine, are 2 of the X button's deployments ...}}</ref> (see ''Equipment'' below). When dual-wielding, weapons can be individually reloaded using either the left or right bumper. Other buttons are unchanged, but '''B''' (melee attack) also will be used to take a stationary gun turret off its tripod for mobile use, becoming one of the game's "support weapons" (see ''Weaponry'' below), <ref name="Kotaku 07-05-11">{{cite video | people = Frank O'connor (presenter), Richard Blakeley (Camera), Michael McWhertor (News Writer) |date = [[2007-05-11]] |title = Kotaku Beta Preview Presentation | url = http://kotaku.com/gaming/has-anyone-here-seen-predator%3F/new-video-of-halo-3-beta-map-weapons-259861.php |format = Flash video/ HTML) |medium = Presentation |publisher = Kotaku.com |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |time = 2:30}}</ref>. As with previous games however, players can still choose to change the default control layout in their game profile to a number of pre-sets. <ref name="betacontrols">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaWhatsNew |title = H3 Public Beta: Whats new? |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML/ASP |work = Guide to the Halo 3 Beta |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The default button layout is one of four available in the Beta }}</ref>

===Campaign===
The only officially broadcast campaign footage released has been at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2006 trailer|E3 2006]], the [[Marketing for Halo 3#"Et tu, Brute?" video documentary|"Et Tu, Brute?"]] Vidoc and again at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|E3 2007]]. There are several distinct types of environments that players will have to traverse in ''Halo 3''; lush jungles, built up towns and sparse desert environments have all been seen.

Other campaign footage has been shown to people at other gaming conventions such as [[Games Convention|Leipzig]] and this is Tsavo Highway, the third level in the game.

[[AI]] behavior of both enemies and allies in the campaign will be greatly enhanced in ''Halo 3''. Marines' driving and gunning skills on the Warthog, Grunt flanking maneuvers in battle, and Brute "[[Herd behavior|pack mentality]]" have all been mentioned by Bungie as examples of using the power of the Xbox 360 for more than making the game look better. Enemy AI will also have new non-combat behaviors, rather than just sitting around waiting for players to kill them, to make them feel more "alive" and realistic.

====Cooperative play====
[[Image:Halo 3 online co-op.jpg|left|thumb|225px|Master Chief alongside the Arbiter, N’tho ‘Sraom and Usze ‘Taham.]]
''Halo 3'' features up to four player [[cooperative gameplay]] over [[Xbox LIVE]] or [[System Link]] and two player cooperative split-screen.<ref name="soundofsack" /> Although previous games also supported split-screen co-op, system link and XBL variants of this game mode is a first for the series. Players playing split-screen can also join other players over system link and Xbox LIVE for a total of up to four players.

For plot reasons, instead of having each player be an identical [[SPARTAN-II Project|Spartan]] like in previous ''Halo'' games, the first player will play as [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]], the second player the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] and the other two players newly created Elites; [[N’tho ‘Sraom]] and [[Usze ‘Taham]] each with their own backstories. Each player has identical abilities although the starting weapon will be different depending on whether the player is Master Chief or an Elite.<ref name="soundofsack">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack |title = The Tru7h About Co-Op in Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-08-02 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-07-31]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> Master Chief will have the Battle Rifle, while the Elites will be equipped with Carbines depending on which mission they are on.

====Meta-game====
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The ultimate task will be to beat every mission in Legendary difficulty with all skulls turned on in a certain time limit with style... To get the highest possible score."|source=—Brian Jarrard, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}
''Halo 3'' features a "campaign meta-game" in which a player is awarded a numerical score based on their performance while completing a level in the campaign. Points mostly come from defeating enemies, with extra points being awarded for stylish moves such as performing "headshots", or progressing through a level quickly. Finding and activating Skulls, a continuation of [[Halo 2]]'s gameplay-altering [[Easter egg (virtual)|easter eggs]], allows a player to obtain even higher scores in the meta-game. As it records individual performance for each player, the meta-game also introduces a competitive aspect to co-op play. If a player themselves die, or kill a co-op teammate however, they will lose points.<ref name="edge179" /> Campaign play also unlocks even more armor permutations for use in multiplayer.<ref name="screenshotsgalore">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12616 |title = Way Beyond the Beta: Screenshots Galore |accessdate = 2007-07-04 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-03]] |format = HTML /ASPX |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The C.Q.B. (Close Quarters Battle) and E.V.A. (Extra Vehicular Activity) variants of Spartans are two of the numerous permutations players will be able to unlock in Halo 3}}</ref>

[[Gamerscore]] is awarded for successfully getting over a certain score in each level,<ref name="Achievements" /> and medals are awarded for specific accomplishments.

===Multiplayer===
[[Image:High Ground Gate.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Halo 3'' multiplayer map High Ground]]
Up to four people can participate in multiplayer match on a single [[Xbox 360]] in ''Halo 3'' via a [[Split screen (computer graphics)|split screen]] layout. Up to sixteen may participate in a single match over a [[LAN]] or [[Xbox Live]]. A combination of some or all of these methods may be combined for a match with up to sixteen players.

Like most multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, ''Halo 3'' will use a customized version of [[TrueSkill]] ranking system for its online matchmaking facilities. ''Halo 3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s matchmaking system will be based on two different ranks, skill and experience (Rating Points or RP). Skill will simply be the TrueSkill rank of the player in a given playlist, and experience (RP) is a linear measure of experience (1 point for each win in the online playlists). Overlaid by a Military rank; so, a player with a designation of a "General" will have played for a longer time than someone who is a "recruit". This is in order to make the system more fair and to reflect the effect of experience on players' profiles.<ref name="1up-3155479"> {{cite web |url = http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155479 |title = The Five Best Things About Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author= Luke Smith |date = [[2006-11-24]] |format = HTML |work = 1up Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = 1up.com }}</ref> The RP system also has a mechanism built in to dissuade players from excessive quitting from matches, which became a problem for some players in Halo 2. When players quit from a match before it has finished, they will lose 2 RP. So players that regularly quit games, leaving their teammates stranded, may eventually end up having ''negative'' RP.

The UI (user interface) has been redesigned from ''Halo 2'', making it easier to generate a custom game in ''Halo 3'' multiplayer, which can now be saved and shared online with the File Sharing Features. Players will now be able to "advertise" their custom games via [[Xbox Live]] Public; making it easier to find a multiplayer match to a player's taste without having to link up with friends.<ref name="1up-3155479" /> To help players have an enjoyable time online, a new feature dubbed the "[[asshole|A-hole]] button" allows players to mute annoying players in the game quickly and easily from the in-game scoreboard view.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6165796.html |title=Halo 3 gets shutup button |accessdate=2007-04-28}}</ref> People sifting through the code, as well as those who used a glitch to find their way into the custom game UI, of the ''Halo 3'' Beta have found that the strength of gravity is indeed a customizable option in multiplayer games, confirming statements made by Bungie employees.<ref name="customgrav">{{cite web|url=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/503973679_660e011151.jpg|title=Custom gravity options in Halo 3 Beta menus|accessdate=2007-05-24}}</ref> In addition to existing gametype settings from previous games, new "player traits" allow players to set specific altered abilities to all players and different (if they wish) abilities to the leaders of a game, expanding the amount of gametype customization available still further.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

===Weapons===
[[Image:Copy of Missile Pod Header.jpg|right|thumb|150px|A Spartan Holding a Missle Pod]]
Most of the weapons available in previous installments of the series return with minor cosmetic and power alterations; including the Battle Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Covenant Plasma Rifle, Brute Shot and the Covenant Needler. The now-iconic Assault Rifle which appeared in the original ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]]'' as the MA5B, but was absent from ''[[Halo 2]]'' is returning for ''Halo 3'' retooled into the MA5C. Developer [[Bungie]] hopes it will fill the role as the "ultimate spawn weapon", allowing players to hold their own in a fight straight away (unlike the SMG in ''Halo 2'') but not be so powerful as to overshadow all of the other weapons (like the M6D in ''Halo''). In hopes of fulfilling this, it has a smaller magazine and slower rate of fire than its previous iteration but a longer range, greater accuracy, and more fire power.

''Halo 3'' introduces a new-to-the-series class called "support weapons". These are a group of exceptionally large, powerful and cumbersome two-handed weapons that, when carried, change the view to a third-person perspective and cause the player to move more slowly. The two weapons available in this class during the Public Beta were the Machine Gun Turret and Missile Pod, although a [[Flamethrower]] also features in this class as well as a new covenant plasma turret.<ref name="ignburning">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html |title = Burn, Baby! Burn! |accessdate = 2007-08-10 |author = Hilary Goldstein |authorlink = IGN |date = [[2007-08-10]] |format = HTML |work = IGN Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |pages =1–2 }}</ref>

As a visual change to the weapons, when a player is carrying a second weapon in ''Halo 3'', the secondary weapon will be stored on the character's back (for larger, two-handed weapons) or on a leg holster (for smaller, one-handed weapons). This makes it impossible to "hide" a powerful secondary weapon and surprise unsuspecting foes.

===Equipment===
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The 30 seconds of fun has become 30 seconds of fun and five of total astonishment."|source=—Jaime Griesemer, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}

A new class of usable items in ''Halo 3'' are known as ''Equipment''. These items have various effects and functions, ranging from defensive effects (Bubble Shield and Regenerator), or objects which blind or confuse the enemy (Flare<ref name="edge179" /> and Radar Jammer), to ones which can actually harm and kill (Power Drainer and Tripmine). Most of these are named by their function.

They are not designed to give one player a significant advantage, as they affect both sides equally, but as items which change the dynamic of a fight momentarily. The Bubble Shield, for example, produces a protective dome but, a person inside cannot fire out, just as a person outside cannot fire in. This creates a stalemate situation until the Bubble Shield fails, or players move through the shield onto one side of it. Equally, once the Portable Gravity Lift is dropped it can be used by both sides to gain greater height into the air, often to get over specific obstacles.

[[Image:Halo 3 Equipment.jpg|left|thumb|225px|A small selection of equipment available in Halo 3.]]

===Vehicles===
''Halo 3'', like its predecessors, will also feature a strong vehicular component. Vehicles, and their countermeasures (rockets, mines, etc.), are tightly integrated with ''Halo'' gameplay. Many of the series' vehicles are returning in the third installment. Vehicles cover a wide range of types, including light [[reconnaissance]] vehicles, large, heavily armoured [[tanks]], troop and vehicle transport craft, plus various atmospheric and spacecraft, though not all are usable by the player.

The Mongoose ATV, a small quad bike, originally designed for [[Halo 2]] but later cut out, is available as a vehicle in ''Halo 3''. A second player can ride on the back of the vehicle to provide some offensive capability. There will also be a new variant of [[Warthog]], with rear seats for troops instead of a gun, and a light human aircraft called the Hornet which is similar in function to the [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]]. They can both be seen briefly in the [[E3 2007]] video. The Hornet will not feature in Matchmaking because it is "too overpowered" and thus will only be accessible in custom games, Campaign, or the Forge gametype.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] }}</ref>

There are also two entirely new [[The Covenant (Halo)#Brute|Brute]] vehicles, dubbed the "Brute Chopper" and "Brute Prowler" to expand the "Brute sandbox". Unlike other vehicles attributed to The Covenant in the game, that entirely hover or fly above the ground, the Chopper has a single large and heavy wheel on the front with a hovering driver seat behind. <ref name="chopper">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=chopperfiction |title = The Brute Chopper |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-06]] |format = HTML /ASP |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> It has been referred to as a "vehicle smasher," able to destroy other vehicles with a single hit. Insofar it has only been seen in the [[E3 2007]] [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|Trailer]]. The Brute Prowler however, is closer in function to a Brute version of the Warthog.<ref name="egmseptember" /> It has a plasma turret in front, a driver in back, and two side seats, similar to the Covenant [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Spectre|Spectre]] in [[Halo 2]].

The [[The Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]] aircraft and [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Wraith|Wraith]] tank have been altered in terms of gameplay. The Banshee now has the ability to fire its Fuel Rod Gun in multiplayer matches, an ability which was formerly restricted to Campaign and the multiplayer of [[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]] for [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] and [[Macintosh|Mac]]. But as a trade-off it can no longer point directly down. The Wraith can now carry two people instead of one. One drives the vehicle and fires the main cannon, while the other fires the smaller plasma turret. The plasma turret was formerly exclusive to AI in the ''Halo 2'' campaign.

The largest drivable vehicle in the game is a UNSC transport vehicle named "The Elephant".<ref name="egmseptember" /> The vehicle is armed with an anti-aircraft gun at the front, has a Mongoose in its belly, and can transport an additional 2 Mongooses, a Warthog, and a Scorpion tank along with 12 infantry. In multiplayer the vehicle serves as a mobile base where players can respawn, and also holds both the flag and capture points for certain multiplayer objective modes. Because of its size, it only features on the largest multiplayer map: Sand Trap, and it is unknown whether it will make an appearance in campaign.

===Miscellaneous===
Fish have been seen on the level "Sierra 117" and it has been confirmed that the player can kill [[fauna]].<ref name="Halo3fishies">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813227p2.html |title = IGN interview with Frankie O'connor |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Patrick Kolan |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = IGN |publisher = IGN.com |quote = Toss a grenade on the shore in High Ground and see what kind of wildlife we have!}}</ref>

The game's 49 [[Xbox LIVE#Gamerscore|achievements]] were revealed on [[June 19]], [[2007]].<ref name="Achievements">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360achievements.org/achievements.php?gameID=274 |title = Halo 3 Achievements |accessdate = 2007-07-30 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-19]] |format = HTML |work = |publisher = Xbox360Achievements.org }}</ref>

==Features==
===Forge===
Forge is a tool that enables players to insert game objects into existing maps. Bungie has stated that this should be considered more a gametype than a tool.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] </ref> Almost all weapons, vehicles, and interactive objects (various crates and barriers) can be spawned, moved and placed into maps with Forge. In an example of its uses, one of the testers was able to place an unusually large number of exploding fusion cores in a large vehicle set to as close an instantaneous respawn as the game would allow, which caused the vehicle to charge wildly around the map.
<ref name="BWU-07-08-03">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12685 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/03/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-05 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=139 |archivedate = 2007-08-04 |quote = [...] placed a RIDICULOUS number of exploding fusion cores [...] respawn times set to as close to "instant" as Forge allows [...] }}</ref>
In games where Forge is enabled, players can switch to the editing mode at any time. While in this mode, a player appears to other players as a [[Forerunner (Halo)#Monitors|Forerunner Monitor]] and is still vulnerable to being attacked and killed. Objects can be spawned into the game in real-time and parameters such as ammo counts (for weapons) and respawn rates can be altered for each object.<ref name="edge179" /> The number of objects that can exist in a map at any one time is limited, however, as each object created takes up a set amount of points from the particular map's limit.<ref name="edge179" />

As well as changing alterations to spawn weapons to assist a player in real-time, altered maps can be saved and then recalled in a normal multiplayer game mode. These altered maps can also be transferred to other players using the ''File Sharing'' features. Modifications made by ''Forge'' can change the way a map plays quite drastically from its original configuration. Forge was also the name of the editing tools included in another Bungie game called Marathon.

===Saved films===
''Halo 3'' will have a feature called ''Saved Films''. This feature allows players to save a copy of the game data of a multiplayer match or campaign session to their Xbox 360's [[hard drive]], so that they may watch it later on. It has been confirmed that you can only save 100 files on a hard drive at a time.<ref name="100 gamesaves">{{cite web |url = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=135 |title = HBO |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Lukems |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = HBO |publisher = bungie.net |quote = Players will be able to save up to 100 total films (this is also referenced to in a podcast that it is all items, so 100 films, or 20 "forges" and 80 films, et cetera}}</ref> Though the public beta's implementation was very limited, its functionality is planned to be extended for the final game.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaSavedFilms |title = Saved Films and File Share |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |work = Halo 3 Beta Guide |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref>

{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="Just think about all those stories you've heard, about that game you played the other night, that awesome thing that happened – well, now you can download it and actually check it out."|source=—Tyson Green, Bungie Studios<ref>{{cite web| title=Halo 3:In-depth Bungie Q&A |url=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800901p3.html |last=Kolan |first=Patrick |publisher=IGN.com |date=[[2007-07-01]] |accessdate=2007-08-16}}</ref> }}

Players will be able to view the action from almost any angle and any player's perspective (including a free-roaming camera), as well as being able to slow down the speed and also play the recording in reverse. The Saved Films can even be edited in game to create a shorter clip of a particularly amazing or special moment.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Players can also use the tool to take still pictures from films and upload them to the [[bungie]] website.

As the Saved Films are only the game data (not an actual video), this allows the file sizes to be relatively small. A recording for a typical "long" game is in the region of only 6 [[megabyte|MB]].<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Films will also be played back at whatever resolution the [[Xbox 360]] is set to, regardless of the resolution at which the a player was using at the time of the recording. All games are recreated in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the ''Halo 3'' engine. This allows them to be shared amongst any other [[Xbox 360]] without any compatibility issues because they all run off the same code. The ''Saved Films'' feature is described as an "excellent training aid" since players can gain valuable tactical insight into the strategies of other players by viewing the saved films.<ref name="handson">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/20070511-mulitplayerbeta.htm |title = Hands-On: Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |author = Denny Atkin |date = [[2007-05-11]] |format = HTML |work = Previews on Xbox.com |publisher = Xbox.com }}</ref> Alternatively, they could have a look at other games uploaded through the fileshare.

This feature will also facilitate the creation of [[machinima]] and other game-related videos, as well as give the creators of such videos advanced tools to enhance the quality of this medium. Video game montage creators can save games to the hard drive of their Xbox 360 console for later use, so they never have to miss a camera shot, while machinima directors and cinematographers will have expanded camera options, instead of having to resort to using a first-person, gameplay perspective.

=== File share ===
File Sharing in ''Halo 3'' is an online storage and sharing service for a range of files that are created in the game, and is an extension of the game's online capabilities. Files such as Saved Films, screenshots, custom gametypes and Forge settings can all be uploaded to the ''File Share.'' When the game launches, items stored there then appear on a players [[Bungie.net]] ''Halo 3'' profile, with the ability to comment on them and queue items to download for when the player next plays the game online.<ref name="edge179">{{cite journal |author = Edge (UK) |authorlink = Edge (magazine) |year = 2007 |month = August |title = Finish the Fight |journal = Edge |volume = September 2007 |issue = 179 |pages = 66–77 |issn = 1350-1593 |format = HTML |accessdate = 2007-08-07 |laysummary = http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2007/08/edge_179.php |laysource = Edge-online.co.uk |laydate = 2007-08-04 |quote = }} 
:*'''On Audio:''' ''"- of the 53,595 pieces of audio created by the day we visited, 39,368 were of NPC dialogue"'' 
:*'''On File Sharing:''' ''"Content in players' shared spaces will be shown on Bungie.net, with the ability to post comments and queue clips for download when players next load up the game"'' 
:*'''On Equipment:''' ''"it operates over and above normal combat, [..] that can benefit and disadvantage each side in equal measure."'' 
:*'''On Forge:''' ''"Each object has a certain cost, each map a global budget"''</ref>

Players can view and transfer these files individually to others while they are online, but can also upload them to a central, Bungie run server so friends (or rivals) can then view and download them even when the creating player is not online. During the Beta each player had 25 [[megabyte|MB]] of storage space on the File Share, which may change by the time the final game ships. Bungie announced that players will be able to purchase additional storage space and slots for 750 [[Microsoft Points]], dubbed "Bungie Pro"; all Gold subscribers get 6 file slots and 25MB of storage. Bungie Pro bumps storage up to 24 slots and 250MB. While players with Xbox Live Silver do not have access to the free file-share, they may purchase Bungie Pro to share their files. Bungie has also extended the file-share to their website; players may "flag" files for download (up to 8) on Bungie.net. The next time a user signs on to their Xbox, it will automatically download the flagged files to their hard drive. <ref name="BWU-07-08-17">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12718 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/17/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-19 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-08-17]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=141 |archivedate = 2007-08-17 }}</ref>

==Story==
===Characters===
{{main|Characters in the Halo series}}
The [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] again returns as the main protagonist, with the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] making several major appearances. The other characters below, and some others, have been revealed in promotional media.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!colspan="2"|Playable characters
|-
!Character
!Player
|-
| [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]]
| First
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Arbiter|Arbiter]]
| Second
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#N.E2.80.99tho .E2.80.98Sraom|N’tho ‘Sraom]]
| Third
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Usze .E2.80.98Taham|Usze ‘Taham]]
| Fourth
|-
!colspan="2"|Non-playable characters
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Miranda Keyes|Miranda Keyes]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Cortana]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Sergeant Major A.J. Johnson|A.J. Johnson]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Terrence Hood|Lord Hood]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#The High Prophets|Prophet of Truth]]
|-
|}

===Plot===
The game will not begin right where ''Halo 2'' left off. Instead, the comic mini-series, ''[[Halo: Uprising]]'', will bridge the story gap between the ending of ''Halo 2'', and the beginning of ''Halo 3''.<ref name="H_uprising">{{cite web |url = http://www.halo3.com/html/Halo_Uprising.html |title = Halo: Uprising On Halo3.com |accessdate = 2007-06-22 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-14]] |format = HTML |publisher = Halo3.com |quote = ...the miniseries will bridge the gap between ''Halo 2'' and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated Halo 3 video game... }}</ref> When the game begins, [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] is back on a thoroughly conquered and [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] controlled Earth. Covenant ships are hovering over an excavation site a few miles from the ruins of [[Halo universe#UNSC Planets and Locations|New Mombasa]] and have uncovered a large artifact in this site, and [[Cortana]] is still the prisoner of [[Gravemind]]. The [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]], along with the some [[Covenant Elite|Elites]] have split from the Covenant during the civil war at the end of ''[[Halo 2]]''; it has been hinted that the [[Covenant (Halo)#Grunts|Grunts]] and the [[Covenant (Halo)#Hunters|Hunters]] have joined with the Elites, but recent promotional media show that at least some of the Grunts have sided with the Brutes. The [[Xbox LIVE#Gamer score|Achievements]] show the story mode will be divided into nine main levels, which gives some information about the game's length and an indistinct view of the story arc. Recent promotional items have had a strong memorial feeling to them, hinting at the demise of Master Chief, though strictly through speculative [[circumstantial evidence]].<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/08/03/the-death-of-master-chief-in-halo-3/| authorlink = Falcon, Jonah| title= The Death of Master Chief in Halo 3?| date = [[2007-08-03]]| publisher = [[2old2play.com]]}}</ref>

==Technology==
===Graphics===
[[Image:Halo 3 singleplayer.jpg|thumb|250px|Work-in-progress ''Halo 3'' screenshot of campaign mode originally captured for use in ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''.]]
''Halo 3'' utilizes a proprietary, in-house [[Game engine|graphics engine]], often referred to as the "''Halo 3'' Engine".<ref name="igntrailer">{{cite web |url = http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/706/706251p1.html |title = E3 2k6: Halo 3 Trailer Impressions |accessdate = 2007-06-25 |author = Kathleen Sanders |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = IGN E3 2006 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |quote = ...rendered in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the current version of the Halo 3 engine.}}</ref> This engine builds upon the technologies of the ''Halo 2'' Engine (and previously the ''Halo'' Engine) and is re-optimized for the architecture of the Xbox 360.

As detailed on the [[Bungie Studios]] website, it will employ advanced graphics technologies such as [[High dynamic range rendering|High Dynamic Range]], global lighting, real-time reflections and [[depth of field]] effects within cutscenes.<ref>{{cite web | title =Bungie | url =http://www.bungie.net | accessdate =2007-06-29 }}</ref> Certain surfaces, including the Master Chief's visor (when visible) and the armor of a Ghost, will have real-time reflections (These were, however, not present within the Beta.). Most of the dynamic objects in the game will cast real-time shadows on themselves and the environment around them, including the game's plant life. ''Halo 3'' will use [[Normal mapping|normal]], [[Bump mapping|bump]], and [[parallax mapping]] to give surfaces more detail without dramatically increasing the number of polygons.

Bungie has also stated that the [[draw distance]] of the game will be in excess of {{mi to km|10}}. Sophisticated new atmospheric models are used in the game to replace the traditional [[skybox (video games)|skybox]],<ref>{{cite video | people = alextotherescue | year = 2007 | date = May 25 | title = Halo 3: Sky Testing Part 2 | url = http://youtube.com/watch?v=aFnbhQU0lcY | format = flash | publisher = Clan Hat Trick | accessdate = 2007-05-27}}</ref> allowing several layers of cloud and atmospheric cover, and even a pseudo "space" beyond that.

[[Water]] effects are also dramatically improved, as water can now reflect and refract images simultaneously. As well as being able to simulate effects such as waterfalls, water will visually flow around objects in its path and splash when players, vehicles, or other objects travel through it.

===Physics===
''Halo 3'', like ''[[Halo 2]]'', uses a version of the [[Havok (software)|Havok]] physics engine for much of its physics calculations<ref name="cid12545">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12545 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 06/15/07 |accessdate = 2007-06-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = ..and this isn’t a Havok physics issue, this is a bug with the Halo melee physics...}}</ref> <ref name="havokgames">{{cite web |url = http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/ |title = Havok - Upcoming Releases |accessdate = 2007-07-13 |author = Havok Inc |date = |format = HTML |publisher = Havok.com |quote = The following game titles on current and next-generation Xbox 360 and Playstation®3 platforms will be released utilizing Havok products [...] Halo 3}}</ref> (although parts of the physics, like melee, are done with custom code on top of the [[Game engine#Middleware|middleware]]).

A wide variety of objects are affected by physical interactions in ''Halo 3''. Crates, canisters, objective objects, dropped weapons, characters, bodies, vehicles, and some parts of the world geometry all interact with each other and the world around them in believable physical ways. Trajectories of thrown objects are also affected by the gravity lifts in the game (including the "Mancannon").

Some of the foliage in the game is physically reactive; it not only moves in the simulated wind, but actually reacts to the player's (or other creatures) presence and bullet fire, as well as explosions. Some flora in the game will also be destroyed after receiving enough damage.

===Audio===
As with all titles on the [[Xbox 360]], ''Halo 3'' will fully support [[Surround sound#5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)|5.1 surround sound]] audio. In the game, there will be over 50,000 pieces of audio, with nearly 40,000 of those being NPC dialogue.<ref name="edge179" /> This is many more than in either of the preceding ''Halo'' titles; ''[[Halo 2]]'' had over 15,000 pieces of dialogue. The AI controlling this dialogue is designed to ensure the exchanges flow naturally and convincingly.

Separate recordings have been made for nearby and distant gunfire to make for a more believable sound experience. Distant gunfire sounds, which may first seem like prerecorded ambient sound, may often be the result of an actual firefight happening somewhere in the game. [[Marty O'Donnell]] is again composing the original score. Some pieces of the game's music are produced with a much larger real orchestra than anything in the prior two games. For example, the music for the announcement trailer was recorded with a 60-piece orchestra and a 24-piece [[choir]].<ref name="announcement" /> Voice actors returning to reprise their roles in ''Halo 3'' include: [[Jen Taylor]] as Cortana and [[Steve Downes]] as the voice of Master Chief. Actress [[Julie Benz]], however, is not voicing Miranda Keyes for ''Halo 3''.<ref name="mirandakeyes">{{cite web |url = http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7B586AE81D-35CC-4DE1-AAD8-920B33FDDDFC%7D |title = Dexter's No. 1 Gal — Julie Benz |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author = Matt Webb Mitovich |date = [[2006-12-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = TVGuide.com |quote = Benz: You know what? I am actually not a part of Halo 3. }}</ref>

==Versions==
[[Image:Halo 3 front-1-.jpg|175px|thumb|''Halo 3 Collector's Edition'' cover.]]
[[Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg|175px|thumb||left|''Halo 3 Legendary Edition'' box and helmet.]]

There will be three different versions of ''Halo 3'' for retail sale: the Standard Edition, which contains the game disc and a manual; the Collector's Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive Xbox 360 bonus disc with several featurettes, and Beastiarum, which is a "hard cover, bound collection of information and art covering the species, cultures and civilizations of ''Halo 3''." according to Bungie; and the Legendary Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive bonus disc, Beastiarum, Legendary DVD containing special content exclusive to the Legendary Edition, and a scale replica of the Master Chief's Helmet as a case for the three discs.<ref name="versions">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531 |title = Three Versions of Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-06-08 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-08]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=130 |archivedate = 2007-06-09}}</ref>

{|class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto;"
!valign="right"| Features
!Standard
!Collector's
!Legendary
|-
|Price ([[United States dollar|USD]])
|$59.99
|$69.99
|$129.99
|-
|Price ([[British Pound Sterling|GBP]])
|£39.99
|£44.99
|£69.99
|-
|Price ([[Singapore Dollar|SGD]])
|$69.90
|$79.90
|N.A.
|-
|Game Disc & Manual
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Interactive Xbox 360 Disc
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Beastiarum
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (book)
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (DVD)
|-
|Legendary DVD
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Master Chief Helmet Replica
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|}

==Marketing==
[[Image:GAME FUEL version of Mt. Dew.jpg|thumb|100px|Mountain Dew Game Fuel.]]
{{main|Marketing for Halo 3}}
Various marketing techniques have been employed in promoting the release of ''Halo 3''. This has included various trailers of the game; real-time [[cinematic]]s, recorded [[gameplay]] sequences, pre-rendered [[Computer-generated imagery|CGI]] and even [[live action]] film. Throughout the course of development several "developer documentaries" were released, which explain the processes behind creating parts of the game. A large scale multiplayer Beta test was played on Xbox Live with many members of the public being able to take part and experience the game for themselves. Beginning in June 2007, [[Iris (game)|''Iris'']], an [[alternate reality game]], began on the internet, designed to create hype for the game while involving players in slowing revealing some background information for the game.

In addition to high profile events, Bungie often talked about the game in its Weekly Update, occasionally releasing media of the game on their site. Numerous interviews with Bungie staff have been conducted by many gaming press establishments, covering a vast range of subjects. Magazines and journals also occasionally ran stories revealing new information. [[Pepsi-Cola]] have announced a new line of soft drink, a variant of [[Mountain Dew]] named [[Marketing for Halo 3#Mountain Dew Game Fuel|Game Fuel]]. The packaging reflects ''Halo 3'', sporting images of [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/809/809612p1.html |title=Halo 3 Box Arrives at IGN Offices |accessdate=2007-08-22 |publisher=IGN }}</ref> As ''Halo 3'' draws nearer to completion and release the marketing drive is set to increase. Much of the advertising to date has focused on appealing to the general public, rather than just hardcore fans of the game. Microsoft announced on [[August 9]], [[2007]], that [[pre-order]]s for ''Halo 3'' had exceeded one million in North America.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20196977/| title=‘Halo 3’ breaks pre-order record | publisher=msnbc.com |date=[[2007-08-09]] | accessdate=2007-08-19}}</ref> However, has not yet equalled ''Halo 2''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s record-setting 1.5 million pre-orders.<ref>{{cite news | title=Halo 3 Passes 1M Pre-Orders|publisher=[[1UP.com]]|date=[[2007-08-09]]|first=Mark |last=Whiting|accessdate=2007-08-14 |url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161856}}</ref> Some [[7-Eleven]] stores have recently begun advertising ''Halo 3'' and will be selling copies of the game.<ref>{{cite web| url=http://www.xbox360rally.com/reserve-halo-3-at-7-11-today/ |title=Reserve Halo 3 at 7-11 TODAY! |accessdate=2007-08-22 |date=[[2007-08-06]] |publisher=Xbox 360 Rally}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Iris (game)|''Iris'' (game)]]
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*[[Halo universe]]
*[[Bungie Studios]]
*[[Microsoft Game Studios]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.halo3.com Official site]
*[http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Halo3/default.aspx Official ''Halo 3'' site at Bungie.net]
*[http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/ ''Halo 3'' at Xbox.com]
*[http://www.halo3countdown.com ''Halo 3'' Countdown]
*[[Wikia:Halo:Halo 3|''Halo 3'' article at Halopedia]]
*[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]

{{Halo series}}
{{Bungie Studios}}

[[Category:2007 video games]]
[[Category:Video game sequels]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360-only games]]
[[Category:Halo games]]
[[Category:Cooperative video games]]

[[es:Halo 3]]
[[fr:Halo 3]]
[[it:Halo 3]]
[[nl:Halo 3]]
[[ja:Halo 3]]
[[no:Halo 3]]
[[pl:Halo 3]]
[[fi:Halo 3]]
[[sv:Halo 3]]

Shut Up and Drive

2007-09-12T04:43:58Z

Duff man2007: /* Music video */

{{CurrentSingles}}
{{Infobox Single 
| Name = Shut Up and Drive
| B-Sides = [[Don't Stop The Music]]
| Cover = Shut Up and Drive - Single.PNG
| Artist = [[Rihanna]]
| from Album = [[Good Girl Gone Bad]]
| Released = [[June 12]], [[2007]] ([[U.S.]])<ref>http://fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=69239</ref> [[August 27]], [[2007]] ([[UK]])<ref>http://www.defjam.co.uk/</ref>
| Format = [[12" maxi single]], [[digital download]]
| Recorded = 2007
| Genre = [[Pop rock]]
| Length = 3:33
| Label = [[Def Jam]]
| Writer = [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers|Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers]] & [[New Order]]
| Producer = Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers
| Certification =
| Chart position =
* 4 ([[Australia]], [[Portugal]])
* 5 ([[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]], [[United Kingdom]])
* 6 ([[Canada]])
* 8 ([[Poland]])
* 9 ([[Netherlands]])
* 12 ([[Europe]], [[World]])
* 15 ([[United States]])
* 17 ([[New Zealand]])
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Hate That I Love You]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = [[UK]] singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Don't Stop the Music (Rihanna song)|Don't Stop the Music]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Upper caption = Alternate covers
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic1.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic2.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
}}

"'''Shut Up and Drive'''" is a song written by [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers]] for [[Rihanna]]'s third album ''[[Good Girl Gone Bad]]'' (2007). The track uses a reworked version of [[New Order]]'s "[[Blue Monday (New Order song)|Blue Monday]]" as the main musical theme.<ref>[http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde] ''Wc02.allmusic.com'' </ref> Its lyrics use [[automobile]]s as a metaphor for the persona in an offer of [[sexual intercourse|sex]].<ref name="vv"/> It was released as the second North American single in June 2007 (see [[2007 in music]]).<ref>[http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/3-0&fp=465c3e50374d037d&ei=LMRcRpWoF4-UpQKp1tT6DA&url=http%3A//www.mtv.com/news/articles/1560279/20070523/lohan_lindsay.jhtml&cid=0 MTV].</ref> It debuted on the ''[[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]]'' [[Hot 100]] at number 88 and has so far peaked at number fifteen.<ref name=Reigns>Jonathan Cohen, [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003598985 "Rihanna's 'Umbrella' Reigns Again Atop Hot 100"], Billboard.com, June 14, 2007.</ref>

==Critical reception==
The song has received mixed reviews from music critics. ''[[Slant Magazine]]'' found that the song did not live up to its [[campy]] title,<ref>Cinquemani, Sal. [http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/music_review.asp?ID=1135 "Music Review: Rihanna: Good Girl Gone Bad"]. ''[[Slant Magazine]]''. [[May 22]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> and ''[[The Village Voice]]'' described it as simultaneously "goofy and sexually daring".<ref name="vv">Dugue, Rodney. [http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0723,dugue,76851,22.html "Mediocre Girl Gone Good"]. ''[[The Village Voice]]''. [[June 5]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> [[All Music Guide]], however, referred to it as "a sleek, forthcoming proposition…as undeniable and rocking as [[Sugababes]]' 2002 UK smash '[[Freak Like Me#Sugababes version|Freak Like Me]]'".<ref>Kellman, Andy. [http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jcftxz85ld0e~T00 "Good Girl Gone Bad > Overview"]. [[All Music Guide]]. 2007. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref>

==Music video==
[[Image:ShutUpAndDriveVideo.jpg|left|thumb|Rihanna working on a car in the music video.]]

The song's [[music video]] is directed by [[David LaChapelle]] and is opens with Rihanna driving a [[Ferrari F430]] into a garage. Rihanna and several other girls start working in the car mechanic garage in a suggestive manner, before slamming the hoods down on cue with the first "Shut Up and Drive" part of the lyrics. The video then cuts to a scene where two cars are preparing to race. Rihanna and her friends show up, and Rihanna proceeds to flirt with the two race car drivers through the open windows of their cars at the starting line. She then directs the drivers to "Shut Up and Drive", and they take off. The next scene shows Rihanna performing with her band. Throughout the video, Rihanna is also shown in the car garage, and walking around the race yard.

The video premiered on MTV's ''[[Total Request Live]]'' on [[July 4]], [[2007]]. On [[July 9]], [[2007]], it debuted on the ''TRL'' countdown at number ten for the first time and has been on the countdown for twenty nine days and so far has peaked at #4 as of [[August 20]], [[2007]].

Rihanna's first promotional venues for Shut Up And Drive were on the British [[television]] shows [[This Morning]], [[The Friday Night Project]] and [[DanceX]]. Rihanna also performed Shut Up And Drive in public prior to its release at venues including [[Stripped Music]], [[Live Earth]], [[AOL Music Sessions]], and several concerts not shown on [[television]]. The song is also [[NASCAR]]'s theme song. The song has also been used in the promotional commercial for the [[The CW Television Network | CW]]'s reality television series [[America's Next Top Model]] for Cycle 9, and the new show [[Carpoolers]] on ABC.

Rihanna performed the song on the [[2007 MTV Video Music Awards]].

==Track listing==
;Vinyl CD Single<ref>[http://www.juno.co.uk/products/279088-01.htm Vinyl CD Single]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Instrumental)

;UK CD Single<ref>[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shut-Up-Drive-Rhianna/dp/B000UNBQQY]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)

==Chart performance==
Shut Up and Drive debuted on Australian [[ARIA Charts|ARIA Singles Chart]] at number 4. It also reached at number 12 in [[United World Chart]].

===Charts===
{|class="wikitable"
!align="left"|Chart (2007)
!align="center"|Peak position
|-
|align="left"|[[ARC Weekly Top 40]]<ref>[http://www.rockonthenet.com/charts/arc.htm ARC Weekly Top 40]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|Romanian Top 100
|align="center"|33
|-
|align="left"|Bulgarian Airplay Chart<ref>[http://theveronicas.free.fr/C1300forums/index.php?showtopic=2632]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Australian ARIA Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1U50 Australian Top 50 Singles Chart]. [[ARIA Charts|ARIA]]. Retrieved on [[September 9]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Brazil Hot 100<ref>[http://www.hot100brasil.com/chtsinglesb.html Brazil Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|84
|-
|align="left"|Canadian Hot 100<ref name="billboard">[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Canadian+Hot+100]</ref>
|align="center"|6
|-
|align="left"|[[Dutch Top 40]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|EURO 200<ref>[http://www.euro200.eu/ Euro 200]</ref>
|align="center"|12
|-
|align="left"|Hit List Portugal<ref>[http://www.mtv.pt/mtv.pt/charts/index.jhtml Hit List Portugal]</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Irish Singles Chart<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|New Zealand RIANZ Singles Chart<ref>[http://charts.org.nz/showitem.asp?key=322634&cat=s Rihanna - Shut Up and Drive (song)]. charts.org.nz. Retrieved on [[August 26]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|17
|-
|align="left"|[[Poland|Polish]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Polish-Top50.htm Polish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|8
|-
|align="left"|[[Portuguese]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Portugese-Top50.htm Portuguese Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|28
|-
|align="left"|[[Singapore]] Airplay Chart<ref>[http://www.power98.com.sg/pages/red_hot_30.php Singapore AirplayChart]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Swedish top 60<ref>[http://www.swedishcharts.com/weekchart.asp?cat=s Swedish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|33
|-
|align="left"|Turkey Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.capitalradio.com.tr/hot40/hot40_cr.asp Turkey Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|UK Top 75 Singles<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|[[United World Chart]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|12
|-
|align="left"|U.S. [[Billboard Hot 100|''Billboard'' Hot 100]]<ref name=acharts>[http://acharts.us/song/26455 "Rihanna - Shut Up And Drive global chart positions and trajectories"]. aCharts.us. Retrieved [[July 31]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|15
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' [[Pop 100]]<ref> [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/retrieve_chart_history.do?model.vnuArtistId=658897&model.vnuAlbumId=933955]</ref>
|align="center"|10
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' European Hot 100<ref>[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?f=European+Hot+100+Singles&pageNumber=Top+11-50&g=Singles European Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|16
|-
|}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* [http://music.defjam.com/www2/av_player/AVPlayer.php?av_asset_id=11921&av_link_group_id=558&av_type_id=2&cms_site_id=1 "Shut Up and Drive" music video]
* [http://music.unrealitytv.co.uk/rihanna-shut-up-and-drive/ Review of Shut Up And drive by Unreality Music]

{{Rihanna}}

[[Category:2007 singles]]
[[Category:Pop rock songs]]
[[Category:Rihanna songs]]
[[Category:Songs with sexual themes]]

[[he:Shut Up and Drive]]
[[pl:Shut Up & Drive]]

User talk:SpigotMap

2007-09-12T04:43:20Z

Duff man2007: /* Whether you won't believe it or not, she did play it at the VMAS. */ new section

Talk:Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:41:55Z

Duff man2007: /* Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay */

User talk:SpigotMap

2007-09-12T04:40:41Z

Duff man2007: /* LMFAO do you really expect me to get a digital recorder, record it, and play upload it on youtube? */ new section

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:38:53Z

Duff man2007:

<noinclude>{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}</noinclude>
{{future game}}
{{Infobox CVG
|title = Halo 3
|image = [[Image:Halo 3 final boxshot.JPG|256px]]
|developer = [[Bungie Studios]]
|publisher = [[Microsoft Game Studios]]
|designer =
|series = ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]''
|engine = Halo Engine ([[Proprietary]])
|picture format = [[720p]] ([[HDTV]]) 
|version =
|released = {{vgrelease|North America|NA|[[September 25]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12467 |title = Finish the Fight on September 25, 2007 |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie Software |quote = On September 25, 2007, players will be able to finish the fight they started in Halo: Combat Evolved and continued in Halo 2. Halo 3 will release in Europe on September 26, 2007}}</ref> 
{{vgrelease|Europe|EU|[[September 26]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate /> 
{{vgrelease|Japan|JP|[[September 27]] [[2007]]}}<ref name="japrelease">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/games/h/halo3/ |title = Halo 3 Page Xbox Japan |accessdate = 2007-06-15 |author = Microsoft Games Studio |authorlink = Microsoft Game Studios |year = 2007 |format = HTML |publisher = Xbox.com/ja-JP/ |language = Japanese |quote = 発売日: 2007/09/27 }}</ref>
|genre = [[First-person shooter]]
|modes = [[Single player]], [[Co-op]], [[Co-op|Online co-op]], [[Multiplayer]], and [[Online multiplayer]] [[Halo 3#Forge|Forge]] [[Halo 3#Meta-game|Meta-game]]
|ratings = [[Entertainment Software Rating Board|ESRB]]: M [[British Board of Film Classification|BBFC]]: 15<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/1FB3194D3E47659580257341004F4642?OpenDocument|title=Halo 3 BBFC Rating Page|accessdate=2007-08-24}} </ref> 
[[Computer Entertainment Rating Organization|CERO]]: D [[Office of Film and Literature Classification (Australia)|OFLC]]: M<ref>{{web cite|url=http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=46&p=156&sTitle=Halo+3&sTitleExact=1&sMediaGames=1&sDateFromM=1&sDateFromY=2003&sDateToM=10&sDateToY=2007&record=221739|title=HALO 3 Game (Multi Platform)|publisher=The Classification Board and Classification Review Board|accessdate=2007-07-18}}</ref>
|platforms = [[Xbox 360]]
|media = [[DVD-DL]]
|requirements =
|input = [[Gamepad#Xbox 360|Xbox 360 Controller]]
|footnotes =
}}
'''''Halo 3''''', the final [[video game]] in the ''Halo'' trilogy, is an upcoming [[first-person shooter]] by [[Bungie Studios]] for the [[Xbox 360]]. An official announcement on the developer's website states that ''Halo 3'' will end the current [[story arc]] of the [[Halo (series)|''Halo'' trilogy]].<ref name="announcement">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Halo3Announcement |title = Halo 3 Announced |accessdate = 2007-08-06 |author = Achronos |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Bungie |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref> A public [[beta test]] of the multiplayer component of the game occurred between [[May 16]], [[2007]] and [[June 10]], [[2007]].<ref name=multiplayermadness>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=MPBetaAndVidocRelease |title = Inside Bungie: Multiplayer Madness! |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta will go live on May 16th at 12:00 AM PDT and run through June 6th at 11:59 PM PDT}}</ref> The final version of the game is due to be released on [[September 25]], [[2007]]<ref name=releasedate /> in the [[United States]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[Singapore]], [[September 26]], [[2007]] in [[Europe]] and [[September 27]], [[2007]] in [[Japan]]. On [[August 29]], [[2007]], Bungie officially stated that ''Halo 3'' has gone [[Software release life cycle#Gold or general availability release|gold]].<ref name=gold>{{cite web |url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12737 |title=Halo's Gone Gold! |accessdate=2007-08-29 |author=Luke Smith (lukems) |date=2007-08-29 |format=HTML |work=Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref>



==Aussie Halo 3 leek==
- - So far microsfot ahs not revealed the Austrilian's pushiment
- - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

==Gameplay==
The gameplay of ''Halo 3'' largely builds upon the previous successful renditions of the franchise. It is a [[first-person shooter]] that, once again, follows the character [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] and his struggle against the [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] and the [[Flood (Halo)|Flood]]. The game's action takes place largely on foot, but there are [[vehicles]] available for the player to use at certain points in the game. As with the other ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]'' titles, the [[multiplayer]] portion of the game is one of the game's most celebrated features, and is one of the reasons for the series' enormous success.

The balance of weapons and objects in the game has been adjusted to better adhere to what Multiplayer Designer Lars Bakken describes as the "Golden Three Things of ''Halo''". These are "weapons, grenades, and mêlée"; all three of which are simultaneously available to a player at all times while on foot (unless they are dual wielding or using one of the new class of support weapons).

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are famously limited to only two weapons at any one time in ''Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overpowered for every type of situation the player might encounter.

The new default controller layout will see the Right Bumper become the "action" button (pick up, reload, board vehicles, activate switches, etc), with the '''X''' button being used for deployment of equipment<ref name="betaquestions">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/04/10/halo-3-video-questions-cleared-up/ |title = Halo 3 video questions cleared up |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Dustin Burg |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |work = Xbox 360 fanboy Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = Xbox360fanboy.com |quote = ..the new bubble shield, trip mine, are 2 of the X button's deployments ...}}</ref> (see ''Equipment'' below). When dual-wielding, weapons can be individually reloaded using either the left or right bumper. Other buttons are unchanged, but '''B''' (melee attack) also will be used to take a stationary gun turret off its tripod for mobile use, becoming one of the game's "support weapons" (see ''Weaponry'' below), <ref name="Kotaku 07-05-11">{{cite video | people = Frank O'connor (presenter), Richard Blakeley (Camera), Michael McWhertor (News Writer) |date = [[2007-05-11]] |title = Kotaku Beta Preview Presentation | url = http://kotaku.com/gaming/has-anyone-here-seen-predator%3F/new-video-of-halo-3-beta-map-weapons-259861.php |format = Flash video/ HTML) |medium = Presentation |publisher = Kotaku.com |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |time = 2:30}}</ref>. As with previous games however, players can still choose to change the default control layout in their game profile to a number of pre-sets. <ref name="betacontrols">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaWhatsNew |title = H3 Public Beta: Whats new? |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML/ASP |work = Guide to the Halo 3 Beta |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The default button layout is one of four available in the Beta }}</ref>

===Campaign===
The only officially broadcast campaign footage released has been at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2006 trailer|E3 2006]], the [[Marketing for Halo 3#"Et tu, Brute?" video documentary|"Et Tu, Brute?"]] Vidoc and again at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|E3 2007]]. There are several distinct types of environments that players will have to traverse in ''Halo 3''; lush jungles, built up towns and sparse desert environments have all been seen.

Other campaign footage has been shown to people at other gaming conventions such as [[Games Convention|Leipzig]] and this is Tsavo Highway, the third level in the game.

[[AI]] behavior of both enemies and allies in the campaign will be greatly enhanced in ''Halo 3''. Marines' driving and gunning skills on the Warthog, Grunt flanking maneuvers in battle, and Brute "[[Herd behavior|pack mentality]]" have all been mentioned by Bungie as examples of using the power of the Xbox 360 for more than making the game look better. Enemy AI will also have new non-combat behaviors, rather than just sitting around waiting for players to kill them, to make them feel more "alive" and realistic.

====Cooperative play====
[[Image:Halo 3 online co-op.jpg|left|thumb|225px|Master Chief alongside the Arbiter, N’tho ‘Sraom and Usze ‘Taham.]]
''Halo 3'' features up to four player [[cooperative gameplay]] over [[Xbox LIVE]] or [[System Link]] and two player cooperative split-screen.<ref name="soundofsack" /> Although previous games also supported split-screen co-op, system link and XBL variants of this game mode is a first for the series. Players playing split-screen can also join other players over system link and Xbox LIVE for a total of up to four players.

For plot reasons, instead of having each player be an identical [[SPARTAN-II Project|Spartan]] like in previous ''Halo'' games, the first player will play as [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]], the second player the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] and the other two players newly created Elites; [[N’tho ‘Sraom]] and [[Usze ‘Taham]] each with their own backstories. Each player has identical abilities although the starting weapon will be different depending on whether the player is Master Chief or an Elite.<ref name="soundofsack">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack |title = The Tru7h About Co-Op in Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-08-02 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-07-31]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> Master Chief will have the Battle Rifle, while the Elites will be equipped with Carbines depending on which mission they are on.

====Meta-game====
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The ultimate task will be to beat every mission in Legendary difficulty with all skulls turned on in a certain time limit with style... To get the highest possible score."|source=—Brian Jarrard, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}
''Halo 3'' features a "campaign meta-game" in which a player is awarded a numerical score based on their performance while completing a level in the campaign. Points mostly come from defeating enemies, with extra points being awarded for stylish moves such as performing "headshots", or progressing through a level quickly. Finding and activating Skulls, a continuation of [[Halo 2]]'s gameplay-altering [[Easter egg (virtual)|easter eggs]], allows a player to obtain even higher scores in the meta-game. As it records individual performance for each player, the meta-game also introduces a competitive aspect to co-op play. If a player themselves die, or kill a co-op teammate however, they will lose points.<ref name="edge179" /> Campaign play also unlocks even more armor permutations for use in multiplayer.<ref name="screenshotsgalore">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12616 |title = Way Beyond the Beta: Screenshots Galore |accessdate = 2007-07-04 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-03]] |format = HTML /ASPX |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The C.Q.B. (Close Quarters Battle) and E.V.A. (Extra Vehicular Activity) variants of Spartans are two of the numerous permutations players will be able to unlock in Halo 3}}</ref>

[[Gamerscore]] is awarded for successfully getting over a certain score in each level,<ref name="Achievements" /> and medals are awarded for specific accomplishments.

===Multiplayer===
[[Image:High Ground Gate.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Halo 3'' multiplayer map High Ground]]
Up to four people can participate in multiplayer match on a single [[Xbox 360]] in ''Halo 3'' via a [[Split screen (computer graphics)|split screen]] layout. Up to sixteen may participate in a single match over a [[LAN]] or [[Xbox Live]]. A combination of some or all of these methods may be combined for a match with up to sixteen players.

Like most multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, ''Halo 3'' will use a customized version of [[TrueSkill]] ranking system for its online matchmaking facilities. ''Halo 3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s matchmaking system will be based on two different ranks, skill and experience (Rating Points or RP). Skill will simply be the TrueSkill rank of the player in a given playlist, and experience (RP) is a linear measure of experience (1 point for each win in the online playlists). Overlaid by a Military rank; so, a player with a designation of a "General" will have played for a longer time than someone who is a "recruit". This is in order to make the system more fair and to reflect the effect of experience on players' profiles.<ref name="1up-3155479"> {{cite web |url = http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155479 |title = The Five Best Things About Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author= Luke Smith |date = [[2006-11-24]] |format = HTML |work = 1up Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = 1up.com }}</ref> The RP system also has a mechanism built in to dissuade players from excessive quitting from matches, which became a problem for some players in Halo 2. When players quit from a match before it has finished, they will lose 2 RP. So players that regularly quit games, leaving their teammates stranded, may eventually end up having ''negative'' RP.

The UI (user interface) has been redesigned from ''Halo 2'', making it easier to generate a custom game in ''Halo 3'' multiplayer, which can now be saved and shared online with the File Sharing Features. Players will now be able to "advertise" their custom games via [[Xbox Live]] Public; making it easier to find a multiplayer match to a player's taste without having to link up with friends.<ref name="1up-3155479" /> To help players have an enjoyable time online, a new feature dubbed the "[[asshole|A-hole]] button" allows players to mute annoying players in the game quickly and easily from the in-game scoreboard view.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6165796.html |title=Halo 3 gets shutup button |accessdate=2007-04-28}}</ref> People sifting through the code, as well as those who used a glitch to find their way into the custom game UI, of the ''Halo 3'' Beta have found that the strength of gravity is indeed a customizable option in multiplayer games, confirming statements made by Bungie employees.<ref name="customgrav">{{cite web|url=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/503973679_660e011151.jpg|title=Custom gravity options in Halo 3 Beta menus|accessdate=2007-05-24}}</ref> In addition to existing gametype settings from previous games, new "player traits" allow players to set specific altered abilities to all players and different (if they wish) abilities to the leaders of a game, expanding the amount of gametype customization available still further.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

===Weapons===
[[Image:Copy of Missile Pod Header.jpg|right|thumb|150px|A Spartan Holding a Missle Pod]]
Most of the weapons available in previous installments of the series return with minor cosmetic and power alterations; including the Battle Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Covenant Plasma Rifle, Brute Shot and the Covenant Needler. The now-iconic Assault Rifle which appeared in the original ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]]'' as the MA5B, but was absent from ''[[Halo 2]]'' is returning for ''Halo 3'' retooled into the MA5C. Developer [[Bungie]] hopes it will fill the role as the "ultimate spawn weapon", allowing players to hold their own in a fight straight away (unlike the SMG in ''Halo 2'') but not be so powerful as to overshadow all of the other weapons (like the M6D in ''Halo''). In hopes of fulfilling this, it has a smaller magazine and slower rate of fire than its previous iteration but a longer range, greater accuracy, and more fire power.

''Halo 3'' introduces a new-to-the-series class called "support weapons". These are a group of exceptionally large, powerful and cumbersome two-handed weapons that, when carried, change the view to a third-person perspective and cause the player to move more slowly. The two weapons available in this class during the Public Beta were the Machine Gun Turret and Missile Pod, although a [[Flamethrower]] also features in this class as well as a new covenant plasma turret.<ref name="ignburning">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html |title = Burn, Baby! Burn! |accessdate = 2007-08-10 |author = Hilary Goldstein |authorlink = IGN |date = [[2007-08-10]] |format = HTML |work = IGN Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |pages =1–2 }}</ref>

As a visual change to the weapons, when a player is carrying a second weapon in ''Halo 3'', the secondary weapon will be stored on the character's back (for larger, two-handed weapons) or on a leg holster (for smaller, one-handed weapons). This makes it impossible to "hide" a powerful secondary weapon and surprise unsuspecting foes.

===Equipment===
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The 30 seconds of fun has become 30 seconds of fun and five of total astonishment."|source=—Jaime Griesemer, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}

A new class of usable items in ''Halo 3'' are known as ''Equipment''. These items have various effects and functions, ranging from defensive effects (Bubble Shield and Regenerator), or objects which blind or confuse the enemy (Flare<ref name="edge179" /> and Radar Jammer), to ones which can actually harm and kill (Power Drainer and Tripmine). Most of these are named by their function.

They are not designed to give one player a significant advantage, as they affect both sides equally, but as items which change the dynamic of a fight momentarily. The Bubble Shield, for example, produces a protective dome but, a person inside cannot fire out, just as a person outside cannot fire in. This creates a stalemate situation until the Bubble Shield fails, or players move through the shield onto one side of it. Equally, once the Portable Gravity Lift is dropped it can be used by both sides to gain greater height into the air, often to get over specific obstacles.

[[Image:Halo 3 Equipment.jpg|left|thumb|225px|A small selection of equipment available in Halo 3.]]

===Vehicles===
''Halo 3'', like its predecessors, will also feature a strong vehicular component. Vehicles, and their countermeasures (rockets, mines, etc.), are tightly integrated with ''Halo'' gameplay. Many of the series' vehicles are returning in the third installment. Vehicles cover a wide range of types, including light [[reconnaissance]] vehicles, large, heavily armoured [[tanks]], troop and vehicle transport craft, plus various atmospheric and spacecraft, though not all are usable by the player.

The Mongoose ATV, a small quad bike, originally designed for [[Halo 2]] but later cut out, is available as a vehicle in ''Halo 3''. A second player can ride on the back of the vehicle to provide some offensive capability. There will also be a new variant of [[Warthog]], with rear seats for troops instead of a gun, and a light human aircraft called the Hornet which is similar in function to the [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]]. They can both be seen briefly in the [[E3 2007]] video. The Hornet will not feature in Matchmaking because it is "too overpowered" and thus will only be accessible in custom games, Campaign, or the Forge gametype.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] }}</ref>

There are also two entirely new [[The Covenant (Halo)#Brute|Brute]] vehicles, dubbed the "Brute Chopper" and "Brute Prowler" to expand the "Brute sandbox". Unlike other vehicles attributed to The Covenant in the game, that entirely hover or fly above the ground, the Chopper has a single large and heavy wheel on the front with a hovering driver seat behind. <ref name="chopper">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=chopperfiction |title = The Brute Chopper |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-06]] |format = HTML /ASP |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> It has been referred to as a "vehicle smasher," able to destroy other vehicles with a single hit. Insofar it has only been seen in the [[E3 2007]] [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|Trailer]]. The Brute Prowler however, is closer in function to a Brute version of the Warthog.<ref name="egmseptember" /> It has a plasma turret in front, a driver in back, and two side seats, similar to the Covenant [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Spectre|Spectre]] in [[Halo 2]].

The [[The Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]] aircraft and [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Wraith|Wraith]] tank have been altered in terms of gameplay. The Banshee now has the ability to fire its Fuel Rod Gun in multiplayer matches, an ability which was formerly restricted to Campaign and the multiplayer of [[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]] for [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] and [[Macintosh|Mac]]. But as a trade-off it can no longer point directly down. The Wraith can now carry two people instead of one. One drives the vehicle and fires the main cannon, while the other fires the smaller plasma turret. The plasma turret was formerly exclusive to AI in the ''Halo 2'' campaign.

The largest drivable vehicle in the game is a UNSC transport vehicle named "The Elephant".<ref name="egmseptember" /> The vehicle is armed with an anti-aircraft gun at the front, has a Mongoose in its belly, and can transport an additional 2 Mongooses, a Warthog, and a Scorpion tank along with 12 infantry. In multiplayer the vehicle serves as a mobile base where players can respawn, and also holds both the flag and capture points for certain multiplayer objective modes. Because of its size, it only features on the largest multiplayer map: Sand Trap, and it is unknown whether it will make an appearance in campaign.

===Miscellaneous===
Fish have been seen on the level "Sierra 117" and it has been confirmed that the player can kill [[fauna]].<ref name="Halo3fishies">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813227p2.html |title = IGN interview with Frankie O'connor |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Patrick Kolan |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = IGN |publisher = IGN.com |quote = Toss a grenade on the shore in High Ground and see what kind of wildlife we have!}}</ref>

The game's 49 [[Xbox LIVE#Gamerscore|achievements]] were revealed on [[June 19]], [[2007]].<ref name="Achievements">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360achievements.org/achievements.php?gameID=274 |title = Halo 3 Achievements |accessdate = 2007-07-30 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-19]] |format = HTML |work = |publisher = Xbox360Achievements.org }}</ref>

==Features==
===Forge===
Forge is a tool that enables players to insert game objects into existing maps. Bungie has stated that this should be considered more a gametype than a tool.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] </ref> Almost all weapons, vehicles, and interactive objects (various crates and barriers) can be spawned, moved and placed into maps with Forge. In an example of its uses, one of the testers was able to place an unusually large number of exploding fusion cores in a large vehicle set to as close an instantaneous respawn as the game would allow, which caused the vehicle to charge wildly around the map.
<ref name="BWU-07-08-03">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12685 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/03/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-05 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=139 |archivedate = 2007-08-04 |quote = [...] placed a RIDICULOUS number of exploding fusion cores [...] respawn times set to as close to "instant" as Forge allows [...] }}</ref>
In games where Forge is enabled, players can switch to the editing mode at any time. While in this mode, a player appears to other players as a [[Forerunner (Halo)#Monitors|Forerunner Monitor]] and is still vulnerable to being attacked and killed. Objects can be spawned into the game in real-time and parameters such as ammo counts (for weapons) and respawn rates can be altered for each object.<ref name="edge179" /> The number of objects that can exist in a map at any one time is limited, however, as each object created takes up a set amount of points from the particular map's limit.<ref name="edge179" />

As well as changing alterations to spawn weapons to assist a player in real-time, altered maps can be saved and then recalled in a normal multiplayer game mode. These altered maps can also be transferred to other players using the ''File Sharing'' features. Modifications made by ''Forge'' can change the way a map plays quite drastically from its original configuration. Forge was also the name of the editing tools included in another Bungie game called Marathon.

===Saved films===
''Halo 3'' will have a feature called ''Saved Films''. This feature allows players to save a copy of the game data of a multiplayer match or campaign session to their Xbox 360's [[hard drive]], so that they may watch it later on. It has been confirmed that you can only save 100 files on a hard drive at a time.<ref name="100 gamesaves">{{cite web |url = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=135 |title = HBO |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Lukems |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = HBO |publisher = bungie.net |quote = Players will be able to save up to 100 total films (this is also referenced to in a podcast that it is all items, so 100 films, or 20 "forges" and 80 films, et cetera}}</ref> Though the public beta's implementation was very limited, its functionality is planned to be extended for the final game.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaSavedFilms |title = Saved Films and File Share |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |work = Halo 3 Beta Guide |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref>

{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="Just think about all those stories you've heard, about that game you played the other night, that awesome thing that happened – well, now you can download it and actually check it out."|source=—Tyson Green, Bungie Studios<ref>{{cite web| title=Halo 3:In-depth Bungie Q&A |url=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800901p3.html |last=Kolan |first=Patrick |publisher=IGN.com |date=[[2007-07-01]] |accessdate=2007-08-16}}</ref> }}

Players will be able to view the action from almost any angle and any player's perspective (including a free-roaming camera), as well as being able to slow down the speed and also play the recording in reverse. The Saved Films can even be edited in game to create a shorter clip of a particularly amazing or special moment.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Players can also use the tool to take still pictures from films and upload them to the [[bungie]] website.

As the Saved Films are only the game data (not an actual video), this allows the file sizes to be relatively small. A recording for a typical "long" game is in the region of only 6 [[megabyte|MB]].<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Films will also be played back at whatever resolution the [[Xbox 360]] is set to, regardless of the resolution at which the a player was using at the time of the recording. All games are recreated in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the ''Halo 3'' engine. This allows them to be shared amongst any other [[Xbox 360]] without any compatibility issues because they all run off the same code. The ''Saved Films'' feature is described as an "excellent training aid" since players can gain valuable tactical insight into the strategies of other players by viewing the saved films.<ref name="handson">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/20070511-mulitplayerbeta.htm |title = Hands-On: Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |author = Denny Atkin |date = [[2007-05-11]] |format = HTML |work = Previews on Xbox.com |publisher = Xbox.com }}</ref> Alternatively, they could have a look at other games uploaded through the fileshare.

This feature will also facilitate the creation of [[machinima]] and other game-related videos, as well as give the creators of such videos advanced tools to enhance the quality of this medium. Video game montage creators can save games to the hard drive of their Xbox 360 console for later use, so they never have to miss a camera shot, while machinima directors and cinematographers will have expanded camera options, instead of having to resort to using a first-person, gameplay perspective.

=== File share ===
File Sharing in ''Halo 3'' is an online storage and sharing service for a range of files that are created in the game, and is an extension of the game's online capabilities. Files such as Saved Films, screenshots, custom gametypes and Forge settings can all be uploaded to the ''File Share.'' When the game launches, items stored there then appear on a players [[Bungie.net]] ''Halo 3'' profile, with the ability to comment on them and queue items to download for when the player next plays the game online.<ref name="edge179">{{cite journal |author = Edge (UK) |authorlink = Edge (magazine) |year = 2007 |month = August |title = Finish the Fight |journal = Edge |volume = September 2007 |issue = 179 |pages = 66–77 |issn = 1350-1593 |format = HTML |accessdate = 2007-08-07 |laysummary = http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2007/08/edge_179.php |laysource = Edge-online.co.uk |laydate = 2007-08-04 |quote = }} 
:*'''On Audio:''' ''"- of the 53,595 pieces of audio created by the day we visited, 39,368 were of NPC dialogue"'' 
:*'''On File Sharing:''' ''"Content in players' shared spaces will be shown on Bungie.net, with the ability to post comments and queue clips for download when players next load up the game"'' 
:*'''On Equipment:''' ''"it operates over and above normal combat, [..] that can benefit and disadvantage each side in equal measure."'' 
:*'''On Forge:''' ''"Each object has a certain cost, each map a global budget"''</ref>

Players can view and transfer these files individually to others while they are online, but can also upload them to a central, Bungie run server so friends (or rivals) can then view and download them even when the creating player is not online. During the Beta each player had 25 [[megabyte|MB]] of storage space on the File Share, which may change by the time the final game ships. Bungie announced that players will be able to purchase additional storage space and slots for 750 [[Microsoft Points]], dubbed "Bungie Pro"; all Gold subscribers get 6 file slots and 25MB of storage. Bungie Pro bumps storage up to 24 slots and 250MB. While players with Xbox Live Silver do not have access to the free file-share, they may purchase Bungie Pro to share their files. Bungie has also extended the file-share to their website; players may "flag" files for download (up to 8) on Bungie.net. The next time a user signs on to their Xbox, it will automatically download the flagged files to their hard drive. <ref name="BWU-07-08-17">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12718 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/17/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-19 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-08-17]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=141 |archivedate = 2007-08-17 }}</ref>

==Story==
===Characters===
{{main|Characters in the Halo series}}
The [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] again returns as the main protagonist, with the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] making several major appearances. The other characters below, and some others, have been revealed in promotional media.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!colspan="2"|Playable characters
|-
!Character
!Player
|-
| [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]]
| First
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Arbiter|Arbiter]]
| Second
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#N.E2.80.99tho .E2.80.98Sraom|N’tho ‘Sraom]]
| Third
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Usze .E2.80.98Taham|Usze ‘Taham]]
| Fourth
|-
!colspan="2"|Non-playable characters
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Miranda Keyes|Miranda Keyes]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Cortana]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Sergeant Major A.J. Johnson|A.J. Johnson]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Terrence Hood|Lord Hood]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#The High Prophets|Prophet of Truth]]
|-
|}

===Plot===
The game will not begin right where ''Halo 2'' left off. Instead, the comic mini-series, ''[[Halo: Uprising]]'', will bridge the story gap between the ending of ''Halo 2'', and the beginning of ''Halo 3''.<ref name="H_uprising">{{cite web |url = http://www.halo3.com/html/Halo_Uprising.html |title = Halo: Uprising On Halo3.com |accessdate = 2007-06-22 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-14]] |format = HTML |publisher = Halo3.com |quote = ...the miniseries will bridge the gap between ''Halo 2'' and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated Halo 3 video game... }}</ref> When the game begins, [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] is back on a thoroughly conquered and [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] controlled Earth. Covenant ships are hovering over an excavation site a few miles from the ruins of [[Halo universe#UNSC Planets and Locations|New Mombasa]] and have uncovered a large artifact in this site, and [[Cortana]] is still the prisoner of [[Gravemind]]. The [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]], along with the some [[Covenant Elite|Elites]] have split from the Covenant during the civil war at the end of ''[[Halo 2]]''; it has been hinted that the [[Covenant (Halo)#Grunts|Grunts]] and the [[Covenant (Halo)#Hunters|Hunters]] have joined with the Elites, but recent promotional media show that at least some of the Grunts have sided with the Brutes. The [[Xbox LIVE#Gamer score|Achievements]] show the story mode will be divided into nine main levels, which gives some information about the game's length and an indistinct view of the story arc. Recent promotional items have had a strong memorial feeling to them, hinting at the demise of Master Chief, though strictly through speculative [[circumstantial evidence]].<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/08/03/the-death-of-master-chief-in-halo-3/| authorlink = Falcon, Jonah| title= The Death of Master Chief in Halo 3?| date = [[2007-08-03]]| publisher = [[2old2play.com]]}}</ref>

==Technology==
===Graphics===
[[Image:Halo 3 singleplayer.jpg|thumb|250px|Work-in-progress ''Halo 3'' screenshot of campaign mode originally captured for use in ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''.]]
''Halo 3'' utilizes a proprietary, in-house [[Game engine|graphics engine]], often referred to as the "''Halo 3'' Engine".<ref name="igntrailer">{{cite web |url = http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/706/706251p1.html |title = E3 2k6: Halo 3 Trailer Impressions |accessdate = 2007-06-25 |author = Kathleen Sanders |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = IGN E3 2006 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |quote = ...rendered in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the current version of the Halo 3 engine.}}</ref> This engine builds upon the technologies of the ''Halo 2'' Engine (and previously the ''Halo'' Engine) and is re-optimized for the architecture of the Xbox 360.

As detailed on the [[Bungie Studios]] website, it will employ advanced graphics technologies such as [[High dynamic range rendering|High Dynamic Range]], global lighting, real-time reflections and [[depth of field]] effects within cutscenes.<ref>{{cite web | title =Bungie | url =http://www.bungie.net | accessdate =2007-06-29 }}</ref> Certain surfaces, including the Master Chief's visor (when visible) and the armor of a Ghost, will have real-time reflections (These were, however, not present within the Beta.). Most of the dynamic objects in the game will cast real-time shadows on themselves and the environment around them, including the game's plant life. ''Halo 3'' will use [[Normal mapping|normal]], [[Bump mapping|bump]], and [[parallax mapping]] to give surfaces more detail without dramatically increasing the number of polygons.

Bungie has also stated that the [[draw distance]] of the game will be in excess of {{mi to km|10}}. Sophisticated new atmospheric models are used in the game to replace the traditional [[skybox (video games)|skybox]],<ref>{{cite video | people = alextotherescue | year = 2007 | date = May 25 | title = Halo 3: Sky Testing Part 2 | url = http://youtube.com/watch?v=aFnbhQU0lcY | format = flash | publisher = Clan Hat Trick | accessdate = 2007-05-27}}</ref> allowing several layers of cloud and atmospheric cover, and even a pseudo "space" beyond that.

[[Water]] effects are also dramatically improved, as water can now reflect and refract images simultaneously. As well as being able to simulate effects such as waterfalls, water will visually flow around objects in its path and splash when players, vehicles, or other objects travel through it.

===Physics===
''Halo 3'', like ''[[Halo 2]]'', uses a version of the [[Havok (software)|Havok]] physics engine for much of its physics calculations<ref name="cid12545">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12545 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 06/15/07 |accessdate = 2007-06-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = ..and this isn’t a Havok physics issue, this is a bug with the Halo melee physics...}}</ref> <ref name="havokgames">{{cite web |url = http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/ |title = Havok - Upcoming Releases |accessdate = 2007-07-13 |author = Havok Inc |date = |format = HTML |publisher = Havok.com |quote = The following game titles on current and next-generation Xbox 360 and Playstation®3 platforms will be released utilizing Havok products [...] Halo 3}}</ref> (although parts of the physics, like melee, are done with custom code on top of the [[Game engine#Middleware|middleware]]).

A wide variety of objects are affected by physical interactions in ''Halo 3''. Crates, canisters, objective objects, dropped weapons, characters, bodies, vehicles, and some parts of the world geometry all interact with each other and the world around them in believable physical ways. Trajectories of thrown objects are also affected by the gravity lifts in the game (including the "Mancannon").

Some of the foliage in the game is physically reactive; it not only moves in the simulated wind, but actually reacts to the player's (or other creatures) presence and bullet fire, as well as explosions. Some flora in the game will also be destroyed after receiving enough damage.

===Audio===
As with all titles on the [[Xbox 360]], ''Halo 3'' will fully support [[Surround sound#5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)|5.1 surround sound]] audio. In the game, there will be over 50,000 pieces of audio, with nearly 40,000 of those being NPC dialogue.<ref name="edge179" /> This is many more than in either of the preceding ''Halo'' titles; ''[[Halo 2]]'' had over 15,000 pieces of dialogue. The AI controlling this dialogue is designed to ensure the exchanges flow naturally and convincingly.

Separate recordings have been made for nearby and distant gunfire to make for a more believable sound experience. Distant gunfire sounds, which may first seem like prerecorded ambient sound, may often be the result of an actual firefight happening somewhere in the game. [[Marty O'Donnell]] is again composing the original score. Some pieces of the game's music are produced with a much larger real orchestra than anything in the prior two games. For example, the music for the announcement trailer was recorded with a 60-piece orchestra and a 24-piece [[choir]].<ref name="announcement" /> Voice actors returning to reprise their roles in ''Halo 3'' include: [[Jen Taylor]] as Cortana and [[Steve Downes]] as the voice of Master Chief. Actress [[Julie Benz]], however, is not voicing Miranda Keyes for ''Halo 3''.<ref name="mirandakeyes">{{cite web |url = http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7B586AE81D-35CC-4DE1-AAD8-920B33FDDDFC%7D |title = Dexter's No. 1 Gal — Julie Benz |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author = Matt Webb Mitovich |date = [[2006-12-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = TVGuide.com |quote = Benz: You know what? I am actually not a part of Halo 3. }}</ref>

==Versions==
[[Image:Halo 3 front-1-.jpg|175px|thumb|''Halo 3 Collector's Edition'' cover.]]
[[Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg|175px|thumb||left|''Halo 3 Legendary Edition'' box and helmet.]]

There will be three different versions of ''Halo 3'' for retail sale: the Standard Edition, which contains the game disc and a manual; the Collector's Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive Xbox 360 bonus disc with several featurettes, and Beastiarum, which is a "hard cover, bound collection of information and art covering the species, cultures and civilizations of ''Halo 3''." according to Bungie; and the Legendary Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive bonus disc, Beastiarum, Legendary DVD containing special content exclusive to the Legendary Edition, and a scale replica of the Master Chief's Helmet as a case for the three discs.<ref name="versions">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531 |title = Three Versions of Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-06-08 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-08]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=130 |archivedate = 2007-06-09}}</ref>

{|class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto;"
!valign="right"| Features
!Standard
!Collector's
!Legendary
|-
|Price ([[United States dollar|USD]])
|$59.99
|$69.99
|$129.99
|-
|Price ([[British Pound Sterling|GBP]])
|£39.99
|£44.99
|£69.99
|-
|Price ([[Singapore Dollar|SGD]])
|$69.90
|$79.90
|N.A.
|-
|Game Disc & Manual
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Interactive Xbox 360 Disc
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Beastiarum
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (book)
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (DVD)
|-
|Legendary DVD
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Master Chief Helmet Replica
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|}

==Marketing==
[[Image:GAME FUEL version of Mt. Dew.jpg|thumb|100px|Mountain Dew Game Fuel.]]
{{main|Marketing for Halo 3}}
Various marketing techniques have been employed in promoting the release of ''Halo 3''. This has included various trailers of the game; real-time [[cinematic]]s, recorded [[gameplay]] sequences, pre-rendered [[Computer-generated imagery|CGI]] and even [[live action]] film. Throughout the course of development several "developer documentaries" were released, which explain the processes behind creating parts of the game. A large scale multiplayer Beta test was played on Xbox Live with many members of the public being able to take part and experience the game for themselves. Beginning in June 2007, [[Iris (game)|''Iris'']], an [[alternate reality game]], began on the internet, designed to create hype for the game while involving players in slowing revealing some background information for the game.

In addition to high profile events, Bungie often talked about the game in its Weekly Update, occasionally releasing media of the game on their site. Numerous interviews with Bungie staff have been conducted by many gaming press establishments, covering a vast range of subjects. Magazines and journals also occasionally ran stories revealing new information. [[Pepsi-Cola]] have announced a new line of soft drink, a variant of [[Mountain Dew]] named [[Marketing for Halo 3#Mountain Dew Game Fuel|Game Fuel]]. The packaging reflects ''Halo 3'', sporting images of [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/809/809612p1.html |title=Halo 3 Box Arrives at IGN Offices |accessdate=2007-08-22 |publisher=IGN }}</ref> As ''Halo 3'' draws nearer to completion and release the marketing drive is set to increase. Much of the advertising to date has focused on appealing to the general public, rather than just hardcore fans of the game. Microsoft announced on [[August 9]], [[2007]], that [[pre-order]]s for ''Halo 3'' had exceeded one million in North America.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20196977/| title=‘Halo 3’ breaks pre-order record | publisher=msnbc.com |date=[[2007-08-09]] | accessdate=2007-08-19}}</ref> However, has not yet equalled ''Halo 2''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s record-setting 1.5 million pre-orders.<ref>{{cite news | title=Halo 3 Passes 1M Pre-Orders|publisher=[[1UP.com]]|date=[[2007-08-09]]|first=Mark |last=Whiting|accessdate=2007-08-14 |url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161856}}</ref> Some [[7-Eleven]] stores have recently begun advertising ''Halo 3'' and will be selling copies of the game.<ref>{{cite web| url=http://www.xbox360rally.com/reserve-halo-3-at-7-11-today/ |title=Reserve Halo 3 at 7-11 TODAY! |accessdate=2007-08-22 |date=[[2007-08-06]] |publisher=Xbox 360 Rally}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Iris (game)|''Iris'' (game)]]
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*[[Halo universe]]
*[[Bungie Studios]]
*[[Microsoft Game Studios]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.halo3.com Official site]
*[http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Halo3/default.aspx Official ''Halo 3'' site at Bungie.net]
*[http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/ ''Halo 3'' at Xbox.com]
*[http://www.halo3countdown.com ''Halo 3'' Countdown]
*[[Wikia:Halo:Halo 3|''Halo 3'' article at Halopedia]]
*[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]

{{Halo series}}
{{Bungie Studios}}

[[Category:2007 video games]]
[[Category:Video game sequels]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360-only games]]
[[Category:Halo games]]
[[Category:Cooperative video games]]

[[es:Halo 3]]
[[fr:Halo 3]]
[[it:Halo 3]]
[[nl:Halo 3]]
[[ja:Halo 3]]
[[no:Halo 3]]
[[pl:Halo 3]]
[[fi:Halo 3]]
[[sv:Halo 3]]

Talk:Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:38:05Z

Duff man2007: /* Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay */

User talk:SpigotMap

2007-09-12T04:36:46Z

Duff man2007: /* Rihanna played the song at the VMAs */ new section

Shut Up and Drive

2007-09-12T04:35:59Z

Duff man2007: /* Music video */ she played at the VMAS, watch it yourself

{{CurrentSingles}}
{{Infobox Single 
| Name = Shut Up and Drive
| B-Sides = [[Don't Stop The Music]]
| Cover = Shut Up and Drive - Single.PNG
| Artist = [[Rihanna]]
| from Album = [[Good Girl Gone Bad]]
| Released = [[June 12]], [[2007]] ([[U.S.]])<ref>http://fmqb.com/Article.asp?id=69239</ref> [[August 27]], [[2007]] ([[UK]])<ref>http://www.defjam.co.uk/</ref>
| Format = [[12" maxi single]], [[digital download]]
| Recorded = 2007
| Genre = [[Pop rock]]
| Length = 3:33
| Label = [[Def Jam]]
| Writer = [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers|Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers]] & [[New Order]]
| Producer = Carl Sturken, Evan Rogers
| Certification =
| Chart position =
* 4 ([[Australia]], [[Portugal]])
* 5 ([[Republic of Ireland|Ireland]], [[United Kingdom]])
* 6 ([[Canada]])
* 8 ([[Poland]])
* 9 ([[Netherlands]])
* 12 ([[Europe]], [[World]])
* 15 ([[United States]])
* 17 ([[New Zealand]])
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Hate That I Love You]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra chronology
| Artist = Rihanna
| Type = [[UK]] singles
| Last single = "[[Umbrella (song)|Umbrella]]" (2007)
| This single = "'''Shut Up and Drive'''" (2007)
| Next single = "[[Don't Stop the Music (Rihanna song)|Don't Stop the Music]]" (2007)
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Upper caption = Alternate covers
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic1.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
{{Extra album cover
| Cover = Rihanna-ShutUpAndDrive&Don'tStopTheMusic2.jpg
| Lower caption = Double A-side single
}}
}}

"'''Shut Up and Drive'''" is a song written by [[Carl Sturken and Evan Rogers]] for [[Rihanna]]'s third album ''[[Good Girl Gone Bad]]'' (2007). The track uses a reworked version of [[New Order]]'s "[[Blue Monday (New Order song)|Blue Monday]]" as the main musical theme.<ref>[http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde http://wc02.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5ixqu0ldde] ''Wc02.allmusic.com'' </ref> Its lyrics use [[automobile]]s as a metaphor for the persona in an offer of [[sexual intercourse|sex]].<ref name="vv"/> It was released as the second North American single in June 2007 (see [[2007 in music]]).<ref>[http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/3-0&fp=465c3e50374d037d&ei=LMRcRpWoF4-UpQKp1tT6DA&url=http%3A//www.mtv.com/news/articles/1560279/20070523/lohan_lindsay.jhtml&cid=0 MTV].</ref> It debuted on the ''[[Billboard (magazine)|Billboard]]'' [[Hot 100]] at number 88 and has so far peaked at number fifteen.<ref name=Reigns>Jonathan Cohen, [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003598985 "Rihanna's 'Umbrella' Reigns Again Atop Hot 100"], Billboard.com, June 14, 2007.</ref>

==Critical reception==
The song has received mixed reviews from music critics. ''[[Slant Magazine]]'' found that the song did not live up to its [[campy]] title,<ref>Cinquemani, Sal. [http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/music_review.asp?ID=1135 "Music Review: Rihanna: Good Girl Gone Bad"]. ''[[Slant Magazine]]''. [[May 22]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> and ''[[The Village Voice]]'' described it as simultaneously "goofy and sexually daring".<ref name="vv">Dugue, Rodney. [http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0723,dugue,76851,22.html "Mediocre Girl Gone Good"]. ''[[The Village Voice]]''. [[June 5]], [[2007]]. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref> [[All Music Guide]], however, referred to it as "a sleek, forthcoming proposition…as undeniable and rocking as [[Sugababes]]' 2002 UK smash '[[Freak Like Me#Sugababes version|Freak Like Me]]'".<ref>Kellman, Andy. [http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jcftxz85ld0e~T00 "Good Girl Gone Bad > Overview"]. [[All Music Guide]]. 2007. Retrieved [[June 12]], [[2007]].</ref>

==Music video==
[[Image:ShutUpAndDriveVideo.jpg|left|thumb|Rihanna working on a car in the music video.]]

The song's [[music video]] is directed by [[David LaChapelle]] and is opens with Rihanna driving a [[Ferrari F430]] into a garage. Rihanna and several other girls start working in the car mechanic garage in a suggestive manner, before slamming the hoods down on cue with the first "Shut Up and Drive" part of the lyrics. The video then cuts to a scene where two cars are preparing to race. Rihanna and her friends show up, and Rihanna proceeds to flirt with the two race car drivers through the open windows of their cars at the starting line. She then directs the drivers to "Shut Up and Drive", and they take off. The next scene shows Rihanna performing with her band. Throughout the video, Rihanna is also shown in the car garage, and walking around the race yard.

The video premiered on MTV's ''[[Total Request Live]]'' on [[July 4]], [[2007]]. On [[July 9]], [[2007]], it debuted on the ''TRL'' countdown at number ten for the first time and has been on the countdown for twenty nine days and so far has peaked at #4 as of [[August 20]], [[2007]].

Rihanna's first promotional venues for Shut Up And Drive were on the British [[television]] shows [[This Morning]], [[The Friday Night Project]] and [[DanceX]]. Rihanna also performed Shut Up And Drive in public prior to its release at venues including [[Stripped Music]], [[Live Earth]], [[AOL Music Sessions]], and several concerts not shown on [[television]]. The song is also [[NASCAR]]'s theme song. The song has also been used in the promotional commercial for the [[The CW Television Network | CW]]'s reality television series [[America's Next Top Model]] for Cycle 9, and the new show [[Carpoolers]] on ABC.

Rihanna performed the song on the [[2007 MTV Video Music Awards]].

==Track listing==
;Vinyl CD Single<ref>[http://www.juno.co.uk/products/279088-01.htm Vinyl CD Single]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Instrumental)

;UK CD Single<ref>[http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shut-Up-Drive-Rhianna/dp/B000UNBQQY]</ref>
# "Shut Up and Drive" (Radio edit)
# "Shut Up and Drive" (The Wideboys Club Mix)

==Chart performance==
Shut Up and Drive debuted on Australian [[ARIA Charts|ARIA Singles Chart]] at number 4. It also reached at number 12 in [[United World Chart]].

===Charts===
{|class="wikitable"
!align="left"|Chart (2007)
!align="center"|Peak position
|-
|align="left"|[[ARC Weekly Top 40]]<ref>[http://www.rockonthenet.com/charts/arc.htm ARC Weekly Top 40]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|Romanian Top 100
|align="center"|33
|-
|align="left"|Bulgarian Airplay Chart<ref>[http://theveronicas.free.fr/C1300forums/index.php?showtopic=2632]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Australian ARIA Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1U50 Australian Top 50 Singles Chart]. [[ARIA Charts|ARIA]]. Retrieved on [[September 9]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Brazil Hot 100<ref>[http://www.hot100brasil.com/chtsinglesb.html Brazil Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|84
|-
|align="left"|Canadian Hot 100<ref name="billboard">[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=Canadian+Hot+100]</ref>
|align="center"|6
|-
|align="left"|[[Dutch Top 40]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|EURO 200<ref>[http://www.euro200.eu/ Euro 200]</ref>
|align="center"|12
|-
|align="left"|Hit List Portugal<ref>[http://www.mtv.pt/mtv.pt/charts/index.jhtml Hit List Portugal]</ref>
|align="center"|4
|-
|align="left"|Irish Singles Chart<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|New Zealand RIANZ Singles Chart<ref>[http://charts.org.nz/showitem.asp?key=322634&cat=s Rihanna - Shut Up and Drive (song)]. charts.org.nz. Retrieved on [[August 26]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|17
|-
|align="left"|[[Poland|Polish]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Polish-Top50.htm Polish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|8
|-
|align="left"|[[Portuguese]] Singles Chart<ref>[http://euro200.eu.mialias.net/Portugese-Top50.htm Portuguese Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|28
|-
|align="left"|[[Singapore]] Airplay Chart<ref>[http://www.power98.com.sg/pages/red_hot_30.php Singapore AirplayChart]</ref>
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|Swedish top 60<ref>[http://www.swedishcharts.com/weekchart.asp?cat=s Swedish Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|33
|-
|align="left"|Turkey Singles Chart<ref>[http://www.capitalradio.com.tr/hot40/hot40_cr.asp Turkey Singles Chart]</ref>
|align="center"|9
|-
|align="left"|UK Top 75 Singles<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|5
|-
|align="left"|[[United World Chart]]<ref name=acharts />
|align="center"|12
|-
|align="left"|U.S. [[Billboard Hot 100|''Billboard'' Hot 100]]<ref name=acharts>[http://acharts.us/song/26455 "Rihanna - Shut Up And Drive global chart positions and trajectories"]. aCharts.us. Retrieved [[July 31]] [[2007]].</ref>
|align="center"|15
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' [[Pop 100]]<ref> [http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/retrieve_chart_history.do?model.vnuArtistId=658897&model.vnuAlbumId=933955]</ref>
|align="center"|10
|-
|align="left"|U.S. ''Billboard'' European Hot 100<ref>[http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?f=European+Hot+100+Singles&pageNumber=Top+11-50&g=Singles European Hot 100]</ref>
|align="center"|16
|-
|}

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* [http://music.defjam.com/www2/av_player/AVPlayer.php?av_asset_id=11921&av_link_group_id=558&av_type_id=2&cms_site_id=1 "Shut Up and Drive" music video]
* [http://music.unrealitytv.co.uk/rihanna-shut-up-and-drive/ Review of Shut Up And drive by Unreality Music]

{{Rihanna}}

[[Category:2007 singles]]
[[Category:Pop rock songs]]
[[Category:Rihanna songs]]
[[Category:Songs with sexual themes]]

[[he:Shut Up and Drive]]
[[pl:Shut Up & Drive]]

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:35:02Z

Duff man2007: If you don't want a seperate section, then include this info in an appropriate section. Don't just "remove it" like it's nothing thouh.

<noinclude>{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}</noinclude>
{{future game}}
{{Infobox CVG
|title = Halo 3
|image = [[Image:Halo 3 final boxshot.JPG|256px]]
|developer = [[Bungie Studios]]
|publisher = [[Microsoft Game Studios]]
|designer =
|series = ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]''
|engine = Halo Engine ([[Proprietary]])
|picture format = [[720p]] ([[HDTV]]) 
|version =
|released = {{vgrelease|North America|NA|[[September 25]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12467 |title = Finish the Fight on September 25, 2007 |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie Software |quote = On September 25, 2007, players will be able to finish the fight they started in Halo: Combat Evolved and continued in Halo 2. Halo 3 will release in Europe on September 26, 2007}}</ref> 
{{vgrelease|Europe|EU|[[September 26]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate /> 
{{vgrelease|Japan|JP|[[September 27]] [[2007]]}}<ref name="japrelease">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/games/h/halo3/ |title = Halo 3 Page Xbox Japan |accessdate = 2007-06-15 |author = Microsoft Games Studio |authorlink = Microsoft Game Studios |year = 2007 |format = HTML |publisher = Xbox.com/ja-JP/ |language = Japanese |quote = 発売日: 2007/09/27 }}</ref>
|genre = [[First-person shooter]]
|modes = [[Single player]], [[Co-op]], [[Co-op|Online co-op]], [[Multiplayer]], and [[Online multiplayer]] [[Halo 3#Forge|Forge]] [[Halo 3#Meta-game|Meta-game]]
|ratings = [[Entertainment Software Rating Board|ESRB]]: M [[British Board of Film Classification|BBFC]]: 15<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/1FB3194D3E47659580257341004F4642?OpenDocument|title=Halo 3 BBFC Rating Page|accessdate=2007-08-24}} </ref> 
[[Computer Entertainment Rating Organization|CERO]]: D [[Office of Film and Literature Classification (Australia)|OFLC]]: M<ref>{{web cite|url=http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=46&p=156&sTitle=Halo+3&sTitleExact=1&sMediaGames=1&sDateFromM=1&sDateFromY=2003&sDateToM=10&sDateToY=2007&record=221739|title=HALO 3 Game (Multi Platform)|publisher=The Classification Board and Classification Review Board|accessdate=2007-07-18}}</ref>
|platforms = [[Xbox 360]]
|media = [[DVD-DL]]
|requirements =
|input = [[Gamepad#Xbox 360|Xbox 360 Controller]]
|footnotes =
}}
'''''Halo 3''''', the final [[video game]] in the ''Halo'' trilogy, is an upcoming [[first-person shooter]] by [[Bungie Studios]] for the [[Xbox 360]]. An official announcement on the developer's website states that ''Halo 3'' will end the current [[story arc]] of the [[Halo (series)|''Halo'' trilogy]].<ref name="announcement">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Halo3Announcement |title = Halo 3 Announced |accessdate = 2007-08-06 |author = Achronos |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Bungie |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref> A public [[beta test]] of the multiplayer component of the game occurred between [[May 16]], [[2007]] and [[June 10]], [[2007]].<ref name=multiplayermadness>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=MPBetaAndVidocRelease |title = Inside Bungie: Multiplayer Madness! |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta will go live on May 16th at 12:00 AM PDT and run through June 6th at 11:59 PM PDT}}</ref> The final version of the game is due to be released on [[September 25]], [[2007]]<ref name=releasedate /> in the [[United States]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[Singapore]], [[September 26]], [[2007]] in [[Europe]] and [[September 27]], [[2007]] in [[Japan]]. On [[August 29]], [[2007]], Bungie officially stated that ''Halo 3'' has gone [[Software release life cycle#Gold or general availability release|gold]].<ref name=gold>{{cite web |url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12737 |title=Halo's Gone Gold! |accessdate=2007-08-29 |author=Luke Smith (lukems) |date=2007-08-29 |format=HTML |work=Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref>



==Aussie Halo 3 leek==
- So far microsfot ahs not revealed the Austrilian's pushiment
- http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

==Gameplay==
The gameplay of ''Halo 3'' largely builds upon the previous successful renditions of the franchise. It is a [[first-person shooter]] that, once again, follows the character [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] and his struggle against the [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] and the [[Flood (Halo)|Flood]]. The game's action takes place largely on foot, but there are [[vehicles]] available for the player to use at certain points in the game. As with the other ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]'' titles, the [[multiplayer]] portion of the game is one of the game's most celebrated features, and is one of the reasons for the series' enormous success.

The balance of weapons and objects in the game has been adjusted to better adhere to what Multiplayer Designer Lars Bakken describes as the "Golden Three Things of ''Halo''". These are "weapons, grenades, and mêlée"; all three of which are simultaneously available to a player at all times while on foot (unless they are dual wielding or using one of the new class of support weapons).

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are famously limited to only two weapons at any one time in ''Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overpowered for every type of situation the player might encounter.

The new default controller layout will see the Right Bumper become the "action" button (pick up, reload, board vehicles, activate switches, etc), with the '''X''' button being used for deployment of equipment<ref name="betaquestions">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/04/10/halo-3-video-questions-cleared-up/ |title = Halo 3 video questions cleared up |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Dustin Burg |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |work = Xbox 360 fanboy Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = Xbox360fanboy.com |quote = ..the new bubble shield, trip mine, are 2 of the X button's deployments ...}}</ref> (see ''Equipment'' below). When dual-wielding, weapons can be individually reloaded using either the left or right bumper. Other buttons are unchanged, but '''B''' (melee attack) also will be used to take a stationary gun turret off its tripod for mobile use, becoming one of the game's "support weapons" (see ''Weaponry'' below), <ref name="Kotaku 07-05-11">{{cite video | people = Frank O'connor (presenter), Richard Blakeley (Camera), Michael McWhertor (News Writer) |date = [[2007-05-11]] |title = Kotaku Beta Preview Presentation | url = http://kotaku.com/gaming/has-anyone-here-seen-predator%3F/new-video-of-halo-3-beta-map-weapons-259861.php |format = Flash video/ HTML) |medium = Presentation |publisher = Kotaku.com |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |time = 2:30}}</ref>. As with previous games however, players can still choose to change the default control layout in their game profile to a number of pre-sets. <ref name="betacontrols">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaWhatsNew |title = H3 Public Beta: Whats new? |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML/ASP |work = Guide to the Halo 3 Beta |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The default button layout is one of four available in the Beta }}</ref>

===Campaign===
The only officially broadcast campaign footage released has been at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2006 trailer|E3 2006]], the [[Marketing for Halo 3#"Et tu, Brute?" video documentary|"Et Tu, Brute?"]] Vidoc and again at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|E3 2007]]. There are several distinct types of environments that players will have to traverse in ''Halo 3''; lush jungles, built up towns and sparse desert environments have all been seen.

Other campaign footage has been shown to people at other gaming conventions such as [[Games Convention|Leipzig]] and this is Tsavo Highway, the third level in the game.

[[AI]] behavior of both enemies and allies in the campaign will be greatly enhanced in ''Halo 3''. Marines' driving and gunning skills on the Warthog, Grunt flanking maneuvers in battle, and Brute "[[Herd behavior|pack mentality]]" have all been mentioned by Bungie as examples of using the power of the Xbox 360 for more than making the game look better. Enemy AI will also have new non-combat behaviors, rather than just sitting around waiting for players to kill them, to make them feel more "alive" and realistic.

====Cooperative play====
[[Image:Halo 3 online co-op.jpg|left|thumb|225px|Master Chief alongside the Arbiter, N’tho ‘Sraom and Usze ‘Taham.]]
''Halo 3'' features up to four player [[cooperative gameplay]] over [[Xbox LIVE]] or [[System Link]] and two player cooperative split-screen.<ref name="soundofsack" /> Although previous games also supported split-screen co-op, system link and XBL variants of this game mode is a first for the series. Players playing split-screen can also join other players over system link and Xbox LIVE for a total of up to four players.

For plot reasons, instead of having each player be an identical [[SPARTAN-II Project|Spartan]] like in previous ''Halo'' games, the first player will play as [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]], the second player the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] and the other two players newly created Elites; [[N’tho ‘Sraom]] and [[Usze ‘Taham]] each with their own backstories. Each player has identical abilities although the starting weapon will be different depending on whether the player is Master Chief or an Elite.<ref name="soundofsack">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack |title = The Tru7h About Co-Op in Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-08-02 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-07-31]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> Master Chief will have the Battle Rifle, while the Elites will be equipped with Carbines depending on which mission they are on.

====Meta-game====
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The ultimate task will be to beat every mission in Legendary difficulty with all skulls turned on in a certain time limit with style... To get the highest possible score."|source=—Brian Jarrard, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}
''Halo 3'' features a "campaign meta-game" in which a player is awarded a numerical score based on their performance while completing a level in the campaign. Points mostly come from defeating enemies, with extra points being awarded for stylish moves such as performing "headshots", or progressing through a level quickly. Finding and activating Skulls, a continuation of [[Halo 2]]'s gameplay-altering [[Easter egg (virtual)|easter eggs]], allows a player to obtain even higher scores in the meta-game. As it records individual performance for each player, the meta-game also introduces a competitive aspect to co-op play. If a player themselves die, or kill a co-op teammate however, they will lose points.<ref name="edge179" /> Campaign play also unlocks even more armor permutations for use in multiplayer.<ref name="screenshotsgalore">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12616 |title = Way Beyond the Beta: Screenshots Galore |accessdate = 2007-07-04 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-03]] |format = HTML /ASPX |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The C.Q.B. (Close Quarters Battle) and E.V.A. (Extra Vehicular Activity) variants of Spartans are two of the numerous permutations players will be able to unlock in Halo 3}}</ref>

[[Gamerscore]] is awarded for successfully getting over a certain score in each level,<ref name="Achievements" /> and medals are awarded for specific accomplishments.

===Multiplayer===
[[Image:High Ground Gate.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Halo 3'' multiplayer map High Ground]]
Up to four people can participate in multiplayer match on a single [[Xbox 360]] in ''Halo 3'' via a [[Split screen (computer graphics)|split screen]] layout. Up to sixteen may participate in a single match over a [[LAN]] or [[Xbox Live]]. A combination of some or all of these methods may be combined for a match with up to sixteen players.

Like most multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, ''Halo 3'' will use a customized version of [[TrueSkill]] ranking system for its online matchmaking facilities. ''Halo 3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s matchmaking system will be based on two different ranks, skill and experience (Rating Points or RP). Skill will simply be the TrueSkill rank of the player in a given playlist, and experience (RP) is a linear measure of experience (1 point for each win in the online playlists). Overlaid by a Military rank; so, a player with a designation of a "General" will have played for a longer time than someone who is a "recruit". This is in order to make the system more fair and to reflect the effect of experience on players' profiles.<ref name="1up-3155479"> {{cite web |url = http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155479 |title = The Five Best Things About Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author= Luke Smith |date = [[2006-11-24]] |format = HTML |work = 1up Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = 1up.com }}</ref> The RP system also has a mechanism built in to dissuade players from excessive quitting from matches, which became a problem for some players in Halo 2. When players quit from a match before it has finished, they will lose 2 RP. So players that regularly quit games, leaving their teammates stranded, may eventually end up having ''negative'' RP.

The UI (user interface) has been redesigned from ''Halo 2'', making it easier to generate a custom game in ''Halo 3'' multiplayer, which can now be saved and shared online with the File Sharing Features. Players will now be able to "advertise" their custom games via [[Xbox Live]] Public; making it easier to find a multiplayer match to a player's taste without having to link up with friends.<ref name="1up-3155479" /> To help players have an enjoyable time online, a new feature dubbed the "[[asshole|A-hole]] button" allows players to mute annoying players in the game quickly and easily from the in-game scoreboard view.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6165796.html |title=Halo 3 gets shutup button |accessdate=2007-04-28}}</ref> People sifting through the code, as well as those who used a glitch to find their way into the custom game UI, of the ''Halo 3'' Beta have found that the strength of gravity is indeed a customizable option in multiplayer games, confirming statements made by Bungie employees.<ref name="customgrav">{{cite web|url=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/503973679_660e011151.jpg|title=Custom gravity options in Halo 3 Beta menus|accessdate=2007-05-24}}</ref> In addition to existing gametype settings from previous games, new "player traits" allow players to set specific altered abilities to all players and different (if they wish) abilities to the leaders of a game, expanding the amount of gametype customization available still further.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

===Weapons===
[[Image:Copy of Missile Pod Header.jpg|right|thumb|150px|A Spartan Holding a Missle Pod]]
Most of the weapons available in previous installments of the series return with minor cosmetic and power alterations; including the Battle Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Covenant Plasma Rifle, Brute Shot and the Covenant Needler. The now-iconic Assault Rifle which appeared in the original ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]]'' as the MA5B, but was absent from ''[[Halo 2]]'' is returning for ''Halo 3'' retooled into the MA5C. Developer [[Bungie]] hopes it will fill the role as the "ultimate spawn weapon", allowing players to hold their own in a fight straight away (unlike the SMG in ''Halo 2'') but not be so powerful as to overshadow all of the other weapons (like the M6D in ''Halo''). In hopes of fulfilling this, it has a smaller magazine and slower rate of fire than its previous iteration but a longer range, greater accuracy, and more fire power.

''Halo 3'' introduces a new-to-the-series class called "support weapons". These are a group of exceptionally large, powerful and cumbersome two-handed weapons that, when carried, change the view to a third-person perspective and cause the player to move more slowly. The two weapons available in this class during the Public Beta were the Machine Gun Turret and Missile Pod, although a [[Flamethrower]] also features in this class as well as a new covenant plasma turret.<ref name="ignburning">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html |title = Burn, Baby! Burn! |accessdate = 2007-08-10 |author = Hilary Goldstein |authorlink = IGN |date = [[2007-08-10]] |format = HTML |work = IGN Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |pages =1–2 }}</ref>

As a visual change to the weapons, when a player is carrying a second weapon in ''Halo 3'', the secondary weapon will be stored on the character's back (for larger, two-handed weapons) or on a leg holster (for smaller, one-handed weapons). This makes it impossible to "hide" a powerful secondary weapon and surprise unsuspecting foes.

===Equipment===
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The 30 seconds of fun has become 30 seconds of fun and five of total astonishment."|source=—Jaime Griesemer, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}

A new class of usable items in ''Halo 3'' are known as ''Equipment''. These items have various effects and functions, ranging from defensive effects (Bubble Shield and Regenerator), or objects which blind or confuse the enemy (Flare<ref name="edge179" /> and Radar Jammer), to ones which can actually harm and kill (Power Drainer and Tripmine). Most of these are named by their function.

They are not designed to give one player a significant advantage, as they affect both sides equally, but as items which change the dynamic of a fight momentarily. The Bubble Shield, for example, produces a protective dome but, a person inside cannot fire out, just as a person outside cannot fire in. This creates a stalemate situation until the Bubble Shield fails, or players move through the shield onto one side of it. Equally, once the Portable Gravity Lift is dropped it can be used by both sides to gain greater height into the air, often to get over specific obstacles.

[[Image:Halo 3 Equipment.jpg|left|thumb|225px|A small selection of equipment available in Halo 3.]]

===Vehicles===
''Halo 3'', like its predecessors, will also feature a strong vehicular component. Vehicles, and their countermeasures (rockets, mines, etc.), are tightly integrated with ''Halo'' gameplay. Many of the series' vehicles are returning in the third installment. Vehicles cover a wide range of types, including light [[reconnaissance]] vehicles, large, heavily armoured [[tanks]], troop and vehicle transport craft, plus various atmospheric and spacecraft, though not all are usable by the player.

The Mongoose ATV, a small quad bike, originally designed for [[Halo 2]] but later cut out, is available as a vehicle in ''Halo 3''. A second player can ride on the back of the vehicle to provide some offensive capability. There will also be a new variant of [[Warthog]], with rear seats for troops instead of a gun, and a light human aircraft called the Hornet which is similar in function to the [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]]. They can both be seen briefly in the [[E3 2007]] video. The Hornet will not feature in Matchmaking because it is "too overpowered" and thus will only be accessible in custom games, Campaign, or the Forge gametype.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] }}</ref>

There are also two entirely new [[The Covenant (Halo)#Brute|Brute]] vehicles, dubbed the "Brute Chopper" and "Brute Prowler" to expand the "Brute sandbox". Unlike other vehicles attributed to The Covenant in the game, that entirely hover or fly above the ground, the Chopper has a single large and heavy wheel on the front with a hovering driver seat behind. <ref name="chopper">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=chopperfiction |title = The Brute Chopper |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-06]] |format = HTML /ASP |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> It has been referred to as a "vehicle smasher," able to destroy other vehicles with a single hit. Insofar it has only been seen in the [[E3 2007]] [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|Trailer]]. The Brute Prowler however, is closer in function to a Brute version of the Warthog.<ref name="egmseptember" /> It has a plasma turret in front, a driver in back, and two side seats, similar to the Covenant [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Spectre|Spectre]] in [[Halo 2]].

The [[The Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]] aircraft and [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Wraith|Wraith]] tank have been altered in terms of gameplay. The Banshee now has the ability to fire its Fuel Rod Gun in multiplayer matches, an ability which was formerly restricted to Campaign and the multiplayer of [[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]] for [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] and [[Macintosh|Mac]]. But as a trade-off it can no longer point directly down. The Wraith can now carry two people instead of one. One drives the vehicle and fires the main cannon, while the other fires the smaller plasma turret. The plasma turret was formerly exclusive to AI in the ''Halo 2'' campaign.

The largest drivable vehicle in the game is a UNSC transport vehicle named "The Elephant".<ref name="egmseptember" /> The vehicle is armed with an anti-aircraft gun at the front, has a Mongoose in its belly, and can transport an additional 2 Mongooses, a Warthog, and a Scorpion tank along with 12 infantry. In multiplayer the vehicle serves as a mobile base where players can respawn, and also holds both the flag and capture points for certain multiplayer objective modes. Because of its size, it only features on the largest multiplayer map: Sand Trap, and it is unknown whether it will make an appearance in campaign.

===Miscellaneous===
Fish have been seen on the level "Sierra 117" and it has been confirmed that the player can kill [[fauna]].<ref name="Halo3fishies">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813227p2.html |title = IGN interview with Frankie O'connor |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Patrick Kolan |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = IGN |publisher = IGN.com |quote = Toss a grenade on the shore in High Ground and see what kind of wildlife we have!}}</ref>

The game's 49 [[Xbox LIVE#Gamerscore|achievements]] were revealed on [[June 19]], [[2007]].<ref name="Achievements">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360achievements.org/achievements.php?gameID=274 |title = Halo 3 Achievements |accessdate = 2007-07-30 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-19]] |format = HTML |work = |publisher = Xbox360Achievements.org }}</ref>

==Features==
===Forge===
Forge is a tool that enables players to insert game objects into existing maps. Bungie has stated that this should be considered more a gametype than a tool.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] </ref> Almost all weapons, vehicles, and interactive objects (various crates and barriers) can be spawned, moved and placed into maps with Forge. In an example of its uses, one of the testers was able to place an unusually large number of exploding fusion cores in a large vehicle set to as close an instantaneous respawn as the game would allow, which caused the vehicle to charge wildly around the map.
<ref name="BWU-07-08-03">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12685 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/03/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-05 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=139 |archivedate = 2007-08-04 |quote = [...] placed a RIDICULOUS number of exploding fusion cores [...] respawn times set to as close to "instant" as Forge allows [...] }}</ref>
In games where Forge is enabled, players can switch to the editing mode at any time. While in this mode, a player appears to other players as a [[Forerunner (Halo)#Monitors|Forerunner Monitor]] and is still vulnerable to being attacked and killed. Objects can be spawned into the game in real-time and parameters such as ammo counts (for weapons) and respawn rates can be altered for each object.<ref name="edge179" /> The number of objects that can exist in a map at any one time is limited, however, as each object created takes up a set amount of points from the particular map's limit.<ref name="edge179" />

As well as changing alterations to spawn weapons to assist a player in real-time, altered maps can be saved and then recalled in a normal multiplayer game mode. These altered maps can also be transferred to other players using the ''File Sharing'' features. Modifications made by ''Forge'' can change the way a map plays quite drastically from its original configuration. Forge was also the name of the editing tools included in another Bungie game called Marathon.

===Saved films===
''Halo 3'' will have a feature called ''Saved Films''. This feature allows players to save a copy of the game data of a multiplayer match or campaign session to their Xbox 360's [[hard drive]], so that they may watch it later on. It has been confirmed that you can only save 100 files on a hard drive at a time.<ref name="100 gamesaves">{{cite web |url = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=135 |title = HBO |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Lukems |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = HBO |publisher = bungie.net |quote = Players will be able to save up to 100 total films (this is also referenced to in a podcast that it is all items, so 100 films, or 20 "forges" and 80 films, et cetera}}</ref> Though the public beta's implementation was very limited, its functionality is planned to be extended for the final game.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaSavedFilms |title = Saved Films and File Share |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |work = Halo 3 Beta Guide |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref>

{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="Just think about all those stories you've heard, about that game you played the other night, that awesome thing that happened – well, now you can download it and actually check it out."|source=—Tyson Green, Bungie Studios<ref>{{cite web| title=Halo 3:In-depth Bungie Q&A |url=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800901p3.html |last=Kolan |first=Patrick |publisher=IGN.com |date=[[2007-07-01]] |accessdate=2007-08-16}}</ref> }}

Players will be able to view the action from almost any angle and any player's perspective (including a free-roaming camera), as well as being able to slow down the speed and also play the recording in reverse. The Saved Films can even be edited in game to create a shorter clip of a particularly amazing or special moment.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Players can also use the tool to take still pictures from films and upload them to the [[bungie]] website.

As the Saved Films are only the game data (not an actual video), this allows the file sizes to be relatively small. A recording for a typical "long" game is in the region of only 6 [[megabyte|MB]].<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Films will also be played back at whatever resolution the [[Xbox 360]] is set to, regardless of the resolution at which the a player was using at the time of the recording. All games are recreated in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the ''Halo 3'' engine. This allows them to be shared amongst any other [[Xbox 360]] without any compatibility issues because they all run off the same code. The ''Saved Films'' feature is described as an "excellent training aid" since players can gain valuable tactical insight into the strategies of other players by viewing the saved films.<ref name="handson">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/20070511-mulitplayerbeta.htm |title = Hands-On: Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |author = Denny Atkin |date = [[2007-05-11]] |format = HTML |work = Previews on Xbox.com |publisher = Xbox.com }}</ref> Alternatively, they could have a look at other games uploaded through the fileshare.

This feature will also facilitate the creation of [[machinima]] and other game-related videos, as well as give the creators of such videos advanced tools to enhance the quality of this medium. Video game montage creators can save games to the hard drive of their Xbox 360 console for later use, so they never have to miss a camera shot, while machinima directors and cinematographers will have expanded camera options, instead of having to resort to using a first-person, gameplay perspective.

=== File share ===
File Sharing in ''Halo 3'' is an online storage and sharing service for a range of files that are created in the game, and is an extension of the game's online capabilities. Files such as Saved Films, screenshots, custom gametypes and Forge settings can all be uploaded to the ''File Share.'' When the game launches, items stored there then appear on a players [[Bungie.net]] ''Halo 3'' profile, with the ability to comment on them and queue items to download for when the player next plays the game online.<ref name="edge179">{{cite journal |author = Edge (UK) |authorlink = Edge (magazine) |year = 2007 |month = August |title = Finish the Fight |journal = Edge |volume = September 2007 |issue = 179 |pages = 66–77 |issn = 1350-1593 |format = HTML |accessdate = 2007-08-07 |laysummary = http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2007/08/edge_179.php |laysource = Edge-online.co.uk |laydate = 2007-08-04 |quote = }} 
:*'''On Audio:''' ''"- of the 53,595 pieces of audio created by the day we visited, 39,368 were of NPC dialogue"'' 
:*'''On File Sharing:''' ''"Content in players' shared spaces will be shown on Bungie.net, with the ability to post comments and queue clips for download when players next load up the game"'' 
:*'''On Equipment:''' ''"it operates over and above normal combat, [..] that can benefit and disadvantage each side in equal measure."'' 
:*'''On Forge:''' ''"Each object has a certain cost, each map a global budget"''</ref>

Players can view and transfer these files individually to others while they are online, but can also upload them to a central, Bungie run server so friends (or rivals) can then view and download them even when the creating player is not online. During the Beta each player had 25 [[megabyte|MB]] of storage space on the File Share, which may change by the time the final game ships. Bungie announced that players will be able to purchase additional storage space and slots for 750 [[Microsoft Points]], dubbed "Bungie Pro"; all Gold subscribers get 6 file slots and 25MB of storage. Bungie Pro bumps storage up to 24 slots and 250MB. While players with Xbox Live Silver do not have access to the free file-share, they may purchase Bungie Pro to share their files. Bungie has also extended the file-share to their website; players may "flag" files for download (up to 8) on Bungie.net. The next time a user signs on to their Xbox, it will automatically download the flagged files to their hard drive. <ref name="BWU-07-08-17">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12718 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/17/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-19 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-08-17]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=141 |archivedate = 2007-08-17 }}</ref>

==Story==
===Characters===
{{main|Characters in the Halo series}}
The [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] again returns as the main protagonist, with the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] making several major appearances. The other characters below, and some others, have been revealed in promotional media.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!colspan="2"|Playable characters
|-
!Character
!Player
|-
| [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]]
| First
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Arbiter|Arbiter]]
| Second
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#N.E2.80.99tho .E2.80.98Sraom|N’tho ‘Sraom]]
| Third
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Usze .E2.80.98Taham|Usze ‘Taham]]
| Fourth
|-
!colspan="2"|Non-playable characters
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Miranda Keyes|Miranda Keyes]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Cortana]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Sergeant Major A.J. Johnson|A.J. Johnson]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Terrence Hood|Lord Hood]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#The High Prophets|Prophet of Truth]]
|-
|}

===Plot===
The game will not begin right where ''Halo 2'' left off. Instead, the comic mini-series, ''[[Halo: Uprising]]'', will bridge the story gap between the ending of ''Halo 2'', and the beginning of ''Halo 3''.<ref name="H_uprising">{{cite web |url = http://www.halo3.com/html/Halo_Uprising.html |title = Halo: Uprising On Halo3.com |accessdate = 2007-06-22 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-14]] |format = HTML |publisher = Halo3.com |quote = ...the miniseries will bridge the gap between ''Halo 2'' and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated Halo 3 video game... }}</ref> When the game begins, [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] is back on a thoroughly conquered and [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] controlled Earth. Covenant ships are hovering over an excavation site a few miles from the ruins of [[Halo universe#UNSC Planets and Locations|New Mombasa]] and have uncovered a large artifact in this site, and [[Cortana]] is still the prisoner of [[Gravemind]]. The [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]], along with the some [[Covenant Elite|Elites]] have split from the Covenant during the civil war at the end of ''[[Halo 2]]''; it has been hinted that the [[Covenant (Halo)#Grunts|Grunts]] and the [[Covenant (Halo)#Hunters|Hunters]] have joined with the Elites, but recent promotional media show that at least some of the Grunts have sided with the Brutes. The [[Xbox LIVE#Gamer score|Achievements]] show the story mode will be divided into nine main levels, which gives some information about the game's length and an indistinct view of the story arc. Recent promotional items have had a strong memorial feeling to them, hinting at the demise of Master Chief, though strictly through speculative [[circumstantial evidence]].<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/08/03/the-death-of-master-chief-in-halo-3/| authorlink = Falcon, Jonah| title= The Death of Master Chief in Halo 3?| date = [[2007-08-03]]| publisher = [[2old2play.com]]}}</ref>

==Technology==
===Graphics===
[[Image:Halo 3 singleplayer.jpg|thumb|250px|Work-in-progress ''Halo 3'' screenshot of campaign mode originally captured for use in ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''.]]
''Halo 3'' utilizes a proprietary, in-house [[Game engine|graphics engine]], often referred to as the "''Halo 3'' Engine".<ref name="igntrailer">{{cite web |url = http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/706/706251p1.html |title = E3 2k6: Halo 3 Trailer Impressions |accessdate = 2007-06-25 |author = Kathleen Sanders |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = IGN E3 2006 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |quote = ...rendered in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the current version of the Halo 3 engine.}}</ref> This engine builds upon the technologies of the ''Halo 2'' Engine (and previously the ''Halo'' Engine) and is re-optimized for the architecture of the Xbox 360.

As detailed on the [[Bungie Studios]] website, it will employ advanced graphics technologies such as [[High dynamic range rendering|High Dynamic Range]], global lighting, real-time reflections and [[depth of field]] effects within cutscenes.<ref>{{cite web | title =Bungie | url =http://www.bungie.net | accessdate =2007-06-29 }}</ref> Certain surfaces, including the Master Chief's visor (when visible) and the armor of a Ghost, will have real-time reflections (These were, however, not present within the Beta.). Most of the dynamic objects in the game will cast real-time shadows on themselves and the environment around them, including the game's plant life. ''Halo 3'' will use [[Normal mapping|normal]], [[Bump mapping|bump]], and [[parallax mapping]] to give surfaces more detail without dramatically increasing the number of polygons.

Bungie has also stated that the [[draw distance]] of the game will be in excess of {{mi to km|10}}. Sophisticated new atmospheric models are used in the game to replace the traditional [[skybox (video games)|skybox]],<ref>{{cite video | people = alextotherescue | year = 2007 | date = May 25 | title = Halo 3: Sky Testing Part 2 | url = http://youtube.com/watch?v=aFnbhQU0lcY | format = flash | publisher = Clan Hat Trick | accessdate = 2007-05-27}}</ref> allowing several layers of cloud and atmospheric cover, and even a pseudo "space" beyond that.

[[Water]] effects are also dramatically improved, as water can now reflect and refract images simultaneously. As well as being able to simulate effects such as waterfalls, water will visually flow around objects in its path and splash when players, vehicles, or other objects travel through it.

===Physics===
''Halo 3'', like ''[[Halo 2]]'', uses a version of the [[Havok (software)|Havok]] physics engine for much of its physics calculations<ref name="cid12545">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12545 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 06/15/07 |accessdate = 2007-06-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = ..and this isn’t a Havok physics issue, this is a bug with the Halo melee physics...}}</ref> <ref name="havokgames">{{cite web |url = http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/ |title = Havok - Upcoming Releases |accessdate = 2007-07-13 |author = Havok Inc |date = |format = HTML |publisher = Havok.com |quote = The following game titles on current and next-generation Xbox 360 and Playstation®3 platforms will be released utilizing Havok products [...] Halo 3}}</ref> (although parts of the physics, like melee, are done with custom code on top of the [[Game engine#Middleware|middleware]]).

A wide variety of objects are affected by physical interactions in ''Halo 3''. Crates, canisters, objective objects, dropped weapons, characters, bodies, vehicles, and some parts of the world geometry all interact with each other and the world around them in believable physical ways. Trajectories of thrown objects are also affected by the gravity lifts in the game (including the "Mancannon").

Some of the foliage in the game is physically reactive; it not only moves in the simulated wind, but actually reacts to the player's (or other creatures) presence and bullet fire, as well as explosions. Some flora in the game will also be destroyed after receiving enough damage.

===Audio===
As with all titles on the [[Xbox 360]], ''Halo 3'' will fully support [[Surround sound#5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)|5.1 surround sound]] audio. In the game, there will be over 50,000 pieces of audio, with nearly 40,000 of those being NPC dialogue.<ref name="edge179" /> This is many more than in either of the preceding ''Halo'' titles; ''[[Halo 2]]'' had over 15,000 pieces of dialogue. The AI controlling this dialogue is designed to ensure the exchanges flow naturally and convincingly.

Separate recordings have been made for nearby and distant gunfire to make for a more believable sound experience. Distant gunfire sounds, which may first seem like prerecorded ambient sound, may often be the result of an actual firefight happening somewhere in the game. [[Marty O'Donnell]] is again composing the original score. Some pieces of the game's music are produced with a much larger real orchestra than anything in the prior two games. For example, the music for the announcement trailer was recorded with a 60-piece orchestra and a 24-piece [[choir]].<ref name="announcement" /> Voice actors returning to reprise their roles in ''Halo 3'' include: [[Jen Taylor]] as Cortana and [[Steve Downes]] as the voice of Master Chief. Actress [[Julie Benz]], however, is not voicing Miranda Keyes for ''Halo 3''.<ref name="mirandakeyes">{{cite web |url = http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7B586AE81D-35CC-4DE1-AAD8-920B33FDDDFC%7D |title = Dexter's No. 1 Gal — Julie Benz |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author = Matt Webb Mitovich |date = [[2006-12-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = TVGuide.com |quote = Benz: You know what? I am actually not a part of Halo 3. }}</ref>

==Versions==
[[Image:Halo 3 front-1-.jpg|175px|thumb|''Halo 3 Collector's Edition'' cover.]]
[[Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg|175px|thumb||left|''Halo 3 Legendary Edition'' box and helmet.]]

There will be three different versions of ''Halo 3'' for retail sale: the Standard Edition, which contains the game disc and a manual; the Collector's Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive Xbox 360 bonus disc with several featurettes, and Beastiarum, which is a "hard cover, bound collection of information and art covering the species, cultures and civilizations of ''Halo 3''." according to Bungie; and the Legendary Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive bonus disc, Beastiarum, Legendary DVD containing special content exclusive to the Legendary Edition, and a scale replica of the Master Chief's Helmet as a case for the three discs.<ref name="versions">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531 |title = Three Versions of Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-06-08 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-08]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=130 |archivedate = 2007-06-09}}</ref>

{|class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto;"
!valign="right"| Features
!Standard
!Collector's
!Legendary
|-
|Price ([[United States dollar|USD]])
|$59.99
|$69.99
|$129.99
|-
|Price ([[British Pound Sterling|GBP]])
|£39.99
|£44.99
|£69.99
|-
|Price ([[Singapore Dollar|SGD]])
|$69.90
|$79.90
|N.A.
|-
|Game Disc & Manual
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Interactive Xbox 360 Disc
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Beastiarum
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (book)
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (DVD)
|-
|Legendary DVD
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Master Chief Helmet Replica
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|}

==Marketing==
[[Image:GAME FUEL version of Mt. Dew.jpg|thumb|100px|Mountain Dew Game Fuel.]]
{{main|Marketing for Halo 3}}
Various marketing techniques have been employed in promoting the release of ''Halo 3''. This has included various trailers of the game; real-time [[cinematic]]s, recorded [[gameplay]] sequences, pre-rendered [[Computer-generated imagery|CGI]] and even [[live action]] film. Throughout the course of development several "developer documentaries" were released, which explain the processes behind creating parts of the game. A large scale multiplayer Beta test was played on Xbox Live with many members of the public being able to take part and experience the game for themselves. Beginning in June 2007, [[Iris (game)|''Iris'']], an [[alternate reality game]], began on the internet, designed to create hype for the game while involving players in slowing revealing some background information for the game.

In addition to high profile events, Bungie often talked about the game in its Weekly Update, occasionally releasing media of the game on their site. Numerous interviews with Bungie staff have been conducted by many gaming press establishments, covering a vast range of subjects. Magazines and journals also occasionally ran stories revealing new information. [[Pepsi-Cola]] have announced a new line of soft drink, a variant of [[Mountain Dew]] named [[Marketing for Halo 3#Mountain Dew Game Fuel|Game Fuel]]. The packaging reflects ''Halo 3'', sporting images of [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/809/809612p1.html |title=Halo 3 Box Arrives at IGN Offices |accessdate=2007-08-22 |publisher=IGN }}</ref> As ''Halo 3'' draws nearer to completion and release the marketing drive is set to increase. Much of the advertising to date has focused on appealing to the general public, rather than just hardcore fans of the game. Microsoft announced on [[August 9]], [[2007]], that [[pre-order]]s for ''Halo 3'' had exceeded one million in North America.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20196977/| title=‘Halo 3’ breaks pre-order record | publisher=msnbc.com |date=[[2007-08-09]] | accessdate=2007-08-19}}</ref> However, has not yet equalled ''Halo 2''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s record-setting 1.5 million pre-orders.<ref>{{cite news | title=Halo 3 Passes 1M Pre-Orders|publisher=[[1UP.com]]|date=[[2007-08-09]]|first=Mark |last=Whiting|accessdate=2007-08-14 |url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161856}}</ref> Some [[7-Eleven]] stores have recently begun advertising ''Halo 3'' and will be selling copies of the game.<ref>{{cite web| url=http://www.xbox360rally.com/reserve-halo-3-at-7-11-today/ |title=Reserve Halo 3 at 7-11 TODAY! |accessdate=2007-08-22 |date=[[2007-08-06]] |publisher=Xbox 360 Rally}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Iris (game)|''Iris'' (game)]]
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*[[Halo universe]]
*[[Bungie Studios]]
*[[Microsoft Game Studios]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.halo3.com Official site]
*[http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Halo3/default.aspx Official ''Halo 3'' site at Bungie.net]
*[http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/ ''Halo 3'' at Xbox.com]
*[http://www.halo3countdown.com ''Halo 3'' Countdown]
*[[Wikia:Halo:Halo 3|''Halo 3'' article at Halopedia]]
*[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]

{{Halo series}}
{{Bungie Studios}}

[[Category:2007 video games]]
[[Category:Video game sequels]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360-only games]]
[[Category:Halo games]]
[[Category:Cooperative video games]]

[[es:Halo 3]]
[[fr:Halo 3]]
[[it:Halo 3]]
[[nl:Halo 3]]
[[ja:Halo 3]]
[[no:Halo 3]]
[[pl:Halo 3]]
[[fi:Halo 3]]
[[sv:Halo 3]]

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:29:28Z

Duff man2007:

<noinclude>{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}</noinclude>
{{future game}}
{{Infobox CVG
|title = Halo 3
|image = [[Image:Halo 3 final boxshot.JPG|256px]]
|developer = [[Bungie Studios]]
|publisher = [[Microsoft Game Studios]]
|designer =
|series = ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]''
|engine = Halo Engine ([[Proprietary]])
|picture format = [[720p]] ([[HDTV]]) 
|version =
|released = {{vgrelease|North America|NA|[[September 25]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12467 |title = Finish the Fight on September 25, 2007 |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie Software |quote = On September 25, 2007, players will be able to finish the fight they started in Halo: Combat Evolved and continued in Halo 2. Halo 3 will release in Europe on September 26, 2007}}</ref> 
{{vgrelease|Europe|EU|[[September 26]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate /> 
{{vgrelease|Japan|JP|[[September 27]] [[2007]]}}<ref name="japrelease">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/games/h/halo3/ |title = Halo 3 Page Xbox Japan |accessdate = 2007-06-15 |author = Microsoft Games Studio |authorlink = Microsoft Game Studios |year = 2007 |format = HTML |publisher = Xbox.com/ja-JP/ |language = Japanese |quote = 発売日: 2007/09/27 }}</ref>
|genre = [[First-person shooter]]
|modes = [[Single player]], [[Co-op]], [[Co-op|Online co-op]], [[Multiplayer]], and [[Online multiplayer]] [[Halo 3#Forge|Forge]] [[Halo 3#Meta-game|Meta-game]]
|ratings = [[Entertainment Software Rating Board|ESRB]]: M [[British Board of Film Classification|BBFC]]: 15<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/1FB3194D3E47659580257341004F4642?OpenDocument|title=Halo 3 BBFC Rating Page|accessdate=2007-08-24}} </ref> 
[[Computer Entertainment Rating Organization|CERO]]: D [[Office of Film and Literature Classification (Australia)|OFLC]]: M<ref>{{web cite|url=http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=46&p=156&sTitle=Halo+3&sTitleExact=1&sMediaGames=1&sDateFromM=1&sDateFromY=2003&sDateToM=10&sDateToY=2007&record=221739|title=HALO 3 Game (Multi Platform)|publisher=The Classification Board and Classification Review Board|accessdate=2007-07-18}}</ref>
|platforms = [[Xbox 360]]
|media = [[DVD-DL]]
|requirements =
|input = [[Gamepad#Xbox 360|Xbox 360 Controller]]
|footnotes =
}}
'''''Halo 3''''', the final [[video game]] in the ''Halo'' trilogy, is an upcoming [[first-person shooter]] by [[Bungie Studios]] for the [[Xbox 360]]. An official announcement on the developer's website states that ''Halo 3'' will end the current [[story arc]] of the [[Halo (series)|''Halo'' trilogy]].<ref name="announcement">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Halo3Announcement |title = Halo 3 Announced |accessdate = 2007-08-06 |author = Achronos |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Bungie |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref> A public [[beta test]] of the multiplayer component of the game occurred between [[May 16]], [[2007]] and [[June 10]], [[2007]].<ref name=multiplayermadness>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=MPBetaAndVidocRelease |title = Inside Bungie: Multiplayer Madness! |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta will go live on May 16th at 12:00 AM PDT and run through June 6th at 11:59 PM PDT}}</ref> The final version of the game is due to be released on [[September 25]], [[2007]]<ref name=releasedate /> in the [[United States]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[Singapore]], [[September 26]], [[2007]] in [[Europe]] and [[September 27]], [[2007]] in [[Japan]]. On [[August 29]], [[2007]], Bungie officially stated that ''Halo 3'' has gone [[Software release life cycle#Gold or general availability release|gold]].<ref name=gold>{{cite web |url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12737 |title=Halo's Gone Gold! |accessdate=2007-08-29 |author=Luke Smith (lukems) |date=2007-08-29 |format=HTML |work=Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref>



==Aussie Halo 3 leek==

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

==Gameplay==
The gameplay of ''Halo 3'' largely builds upon the previous successful renditions of the franchise. It is a [[first-person shooter]] that, once again, follows the character [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] and his struggle against the [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] and the [[Flood (Halo)|Flood]]. The game's action takes place largely on foot, but there are [[vehicles]] available for the player to use at certain points in the game. As with the other ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]'' titles, the [[multiplayer]] portion of the game is one of the game's most celebrated features, and is one of the reasons for the series' enormous success.

The balance of weapons and objects in the game has been adjusted to better adhere to what Multiplayer Designer Lars Bakken describes as the "Golden Three Things of ''Halo''". These are "weapons, grenades, and mêlée"; all three of which are simultaneously available to a player at all times while on foot (unless they are dual wielding or using one of the new class of support weapons).

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are famously limited to only two weapons at any one time in ''Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overpowered for every type of situation the player might encounter.

The new default controller layout will see the Right Bumper become the "action" button (pick up, reload, board vehicles, activate switches, etc), with the '''X''' button being used for deployment of equipment<ref name="betaquestions">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/04/10/halo-3-video-questions-cleared-up/ |title = Halo 3 video questions cleared up |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Dustin Burg |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |work = Xbox 360 fanboy Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = Xbox360fanboy.com |quote = ..the new bubble shield, trip mine, are 2 of the X button's deployments ...}}</ref> (see ''Equipment'' below). When dual-wielding, weapons can be individually reloaded using either the left or right bumper. Other buttons are unchanged, but '''B''' (melee attack) also will be used to take a stationary gun turret off its tripod for mobile use, becoming one of the game's "support weapons" (see ''Weaponry'' below), <ref name="Kotaku 07-05-11">{{cite video | people = Frank O'connor (presenter), Richard Blakeley (Camera), Michael McWhertor (News Writer) |date = [[2007-05-11]] |title = Kotaku Beta Preview Presentation | url = http://kotaku.com/gaming/has-anyone-here-seen-predator%3F/new-video-of-halo-3-beta-map-weapons-259861.php |format = Flash video/ HTML) |medium = Presentation |publisher = Kotaku.com |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |time = 2:30}}</ref>. As with previous games however, players can still choose to change the default control layout in their game profile to a number of pre-sets. <ref name="betacontrols">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaWhatsNew |title = H3 Public Beta: Whats new? |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML/ASP |work = Guide to the Halo 3 Beta |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The default button layout is one of four available in the Beta }}</ref>

===Campaign===
The only officially broadcast campaign footage released has been at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2006 trailer|E3 2006]], the [[Marketing for Halo 3#"Et tu, Brute?" video documentary|"Et Tu, Brute?"]] Vidoc and again at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|E3 2007]]. There are several distinct types of environments that players will have to traverse in ''Halo 3''; lush jungles, built up towns and sparse desert environments have all been seen.

Other campaign footage has been shown to people at other gaming conventions such as [[Games Convention|Leipzig]] and this is Tsavo Highway, the third level in the game.

[[AI]] behavior of both enemies and allies in the campaign will be greatly enhanced in ''Halo 3''. Marines' driving and gunning skills on the Warthog, Grunt flanking maneuvers in battle, and Brute "[[Herd behavior|pack mentality]]" have all been mentioned by Bungie as examples of using the power of the Xbox 360 for more than making the game look better. Enemy AI will also have new non-combat behaviors, rather than just sitting around waiting for players to kill them, to make them feel more "alive" and realistic.

====Cooperative play====
[[Image:Halo 3 online co-op.jpg|left|thumb|225px|Master Chief alongside the Arbiter, N’tho ‘Sraom and Usze ‘Taham.]]
''Halo 3'' features up to four player [[cooperative gameplay]] over [[Xbox LIVE]] or [[System Link]] and two player cooperative split-screen.<ref name="soundofsack" /> Although previous games also supported split-screen co-op, system link and XBL variants of this game mode is a first for the series. Players playing split-screen can also join other players over system link and Xbox LIVE for a total of up to four players.

For plot reasons, instead of having each player be an identical [[SPARTAN-II Project|Spartan]] like in previous ''Halo'' games, the first player will play as [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]], the second player the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] and the other two players newly created Elites; [[N’tho ‘Sraom]] and [[Usze ‘Taham]] each with their own backstories. Each player has identical abilities although the starting weapon will be different depending on whether the player is Master Chief or an Elite.<ref name="soundofsack">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack |title = The Tru7h About Co-Op in Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-08-02 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-07-31]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> Master Chief will have the Battle Rifle, while the Elites will be equipped with Carbines depending on which mission they are on.

====Meta-game====
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The ultimate task will be to beat every mission in Legendary difficulty with all skulls turned on in a certain time limit with style... To get the highest possible score."|source=—Brian Jarrard, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}
''Halo 3'' features a "campaign meta-game" in which a player is awarded a numerical score based on their performance while completing a level in the campaign. Points mostly come from defeating enemies, with extra points being awarded for stylish moves such as performing "headshots", or progressing through a level quickly. Finding and activating Skulls, a continuation of [[Halo 2]]'s gameplay-altering [[Easter egg (virtual)|easter eggs]], allows a player to obtain even higher scores in the meta-game. As it records individual performance for each player, the meta-game also introduces a competitive aspect to co-op play. If a player themselves die, or kill a co-op teammate however, they will lose points.<ref name="edge179" /> Campaign play also unlocks even more armor permutations for use in multiplayer.<ref name="screenshotsgalore">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12616 |title = Way Beyond the Beta: Screenshots Galore |accessdate = 2007-07-04 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-03]] |format = HTML /ASPX |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The C.Q.B. (Close Quarters Battle) and E.V.A. (Extra Vehicular Activity) variants of Spartans are two of the numerous permutations players will be able to unlock in Halo 3}}</ref>

[[Gamerscore]] is awarded for successfully getting over a certain score in each level,<ref name="Achievements" /> and medals are awarded for specific accomplishments.

===Multiplayer===
[[Image:High Ground Gate.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Halo 3'' multiplayer map High Ground]]
Up to four people can participate in multiplayer match on a single [[Xbox 360]] in ''Halo 3'' via a [[Split screen (computer graphics)|split screen]] layout. Up to sixteen may participate in a single match over a [[LAN]] or [[Xbox Live]]. A combination of some or all of these methods may be combined for a match with up to sixteen players.

Like most multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, ''Halo 3'' will use a customized version of [[TrueSkill]] ranking system for its online matchmaking facilities. ''Halo 3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s matchmaking system will be based on two different ranks, skill and experience (Rating Points or RP). Skill will simply be the TrueSkill rank of the player in a given playlist, and experience (RP) is a linear measure of experience (1 point for each win in the online playlists). Overlaid by a Military rank; so, a player with a designation of a "General" will have played for a longer time than someone who is a "recruit". This is in order to make the system more fair and to reflect the effect of experience on players' profiles.<ref name="1up-3155479"> {{cite web |url = http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155479 |title = The Five Best Things About Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author= Luke Smith |date = [[2006-11-24]] |format = HTML |work = 1up Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = 1up.com }}</ref> The RP system also has a mechanism built in to dissuade players from excessive quitting from matches, which became a problem for some players in Halo 2. When players quit from a match before it has finished, they will lose 2 RP. So players that regularly quit games, leaving their teammates stranded, may eventually end up having ''negative'' RP.

The UI (user interface) has been redesigned from ''Halo 2'', making it easier to generate a custom game in ''Halo 3'' multiplayer, which can now be saved and shared online with the File Sharing Features. Players will now be able to "advertise" their custom games via [[Xbox Live]] Public; making it easier to find a multiplayer match to a player's taste without having to link up with friends.<ref name="1up-3155479" /> To help players have an enjoyable time online, a new feature dubbed the "[[asshole|A-hole]] button" allows players to mute annoying players in the game quickly and easily from the in-game scoreboard view.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6165796.html |title=Halo 3 gets shutup button |accessdate=2007-04-28}}</ref> People sifting through the code, as well as those who used a glitch to find their way into the custom game UI, of the ''Halo 3'' Beta have found that the strength of gravity is indeed a customizable option in multiplayer games, confirming statements made by Bungie employees.<ref name="customgrav">{{cite web|url=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/503973679_660e011151.jpg|title=Custom gravity options in Halo 3 Beta menus|accessdate=2007-05-24}}</ref> In addition to existing gametype settings from previous games, new "player traits" allow players to set specific altered abilities to all players and different (if they wish) abilities to the leaders of a game, expanding the amount of gametype customization available still further.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

===Weapons===
[[Image:Copy of Missile Pod Header.jpg|right|thumb|150px|A Spartan Holding a Missle Pod]]
Most of the weapons available in previous installments of the series return with minor cosmetic and power alterations; including the Battle Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Covenant Plasma Rifle, Brute Shot and the Covenant Needler. The now-iconic Assault Rifle which appeared in the original ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]]'' as the MA5B, but was absent from ''[[Halo 2]]'' is returning for ''Halo 3'' retooled into the MA5C. Developer [[Bungie]] hopes it will fill the role as the "ultimate spawn weapon", allowing players to hold their own in a fight straight away (unlike the SMG in ''Halo 2'') but not be so powerful as to overshadow all of the other weapons (like the M6D in ''Halo''). In hopes of fulfilling this, it has a smaller magazine and slower rate of fire than its previous iteration but a longer range, greater accuracy, and more fire power.

''Halo 3'' introduces a new-to-the-series class called "support weapons". These are a group of exceptionally large, powerful and cumbersome two-handed weapons that, when carried, change the view to a third-person perspective and cause the player to move more slowly. The two weapons available in this class during the Public Beta were the Machine Gun Turret and Missile Pod, although a [[Flamethrower]] also features in this class as well as a new covenant plasma turret.<ref name="ignburning">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html |title = Burn, Baby! Burn! |accessdate = 2007-08-10 |author = Hilary Goldstein |authorlink = IGN |date = [[2007-08-10]] |format = HTML |work = IGN Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |pages =1–2 }}</ref>

As a visual change to the weapons, when a player is carrying a second weapon in ''Halo 3'', the secondary weapon will be stored on the character's back (for larger, two-handed weapons) or on a leg holster (for smaller, one-handed weapons). This makes it impossible to "hide" a powerful secondary weapon and surprise unsuspecting foes.

===Equipment===
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The 30 seconds of fun has become 30 seconds of fun and five of total astonishment."|source=—Jaime Griesemer, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}

A new class of usable items in ''Halo 3'' are known as ''Equipment''. These items have various effects and functions, ranging from defensive effects (Bubble Shield and Regenerator), or objects which blind or confuse the enemy (Flare<ref name="edge179" /> and Radar Jammer), to ones which can actually harm and kill (Power Drainer and Tripmine). Most of these are named by their function.

They are not designed to give one player a significant advantage, as they affect both sides equally, but as items which change the dynamic of a fight momentarily. The Bubble Shield, for example, produces a protective dome but, a person inside cannot fire out, just as a person outside cannot fire in. This creates a stalemate situation until the Bubble Shield fails, or players move through the shield onto one side of it. Equally, once the Portable Gravity Lift is dropped it can be used by both sides to gain greater height into the air, often to get over specific obstacles.

[[Image:Halo 3 Equipment.jpg|left|thumb|225px|A small selection of equipment available in Halo 3.]]

===Vehicles===
''Halo 3'', like its predecessors, will also feature a strong vehicular component. Vehicles, and their countermeasures (rockets, mines, etc.), are tightly integrated with ''Halo'' gameplay. Many of the series' vehicles are returning in the third installment. Vehicles cover a wide range of types, including light [[reconnaissance]] vehicles, large, heavily armoured [[tanks]], troop and vehicle transport craft, plus various atmospheric and spacecraft, though not all are usable by the player.

The Mongoose ATV, a small quad bike, originally designed for [[Halo 2]] but later cut out, is available as a vehicle in ''Halo 3''. A second player can ride on the back of the vehicle to provide some offensive capability. There will also be a new variant of [[Warthog]], with rear seats for troops instead of a gun, and a light human aircraft called the Hornet which is similar in function to the [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]]. They can both be seen briefly in the [[E3 2007]] video. The Hornet will not feature in Matchmaking because it is "too overpowered" and thus will only be accessible in custom games, Campaign, or the Forge gametype.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] }}</ref>

There are also two entirely new [[The Covenant (Halo)#Brute|Brute]] vehicles, dubbed the "Brute Chopper" and "Brute Prowler" to expand the "Brute sandbox". Unlike other vehicles attributed to The Covenant in the game, that entirely hover or fly above the ground, the Chopper has a single large and heavy wheel on the front with a hovering driver seat behind. <ref name="chopper">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=chopperfiction |title = The Brute Chopper |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-06]] |format = HTML /ASP |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> It has been referred to as a "vehicle smasher," able to destroy other vehicles with a single hit. Insofar it has only been seen in the [[E3 2007]] [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|Trailer]]. The Brute Prowler however, is closer in function to a Brute version of the Warthog.<ref name="egmseptember" /> It has a plasma turret in front, a driver in back, and two side seats, similar to the Covenant [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Spectre|Spectre]] in [[Halo 2]].

The [[The Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]] aircraft and [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Wraith|Wraith]] tank have been altered in terms of gameplay. The Banshee now has the ability to fire its Fuel Rod Gun in multiplayer matches, an ability which was formerly restricted to Campaign and the multiplayer of [[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]] for [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] and [[Macintosh|Mac]]. But as a trade-off it can no longer point directly down. The Wraith can now carry two people instead of one. One drives the vehicle and fires the main cannon, while the other fires the smaller plasma turret. The plasma turret was formerly exclusive to AI in the ''Halo 2'' campaign.

The largest drivable vehicle in the game is a UNSC transport vehicle named "The Elephant".<ref name="egmseptember" /> The vehicle is armed with an anti-aircraft gun at the front, has a Mongoose in its belly, and can transport an additional 2 Mongooses, a Warthog, and a Scorpion tank along with 12 infantry. In multiplayer the vehicle serves as a mobile base where players can respawn, and also holds both the flag and capture points for certain multiplayer objective modes. Because of its size, it only features on the largest multiplayer map: Sand Trap, and it is unknown whether it will make an appearance in campaign.

===Miscellaneous===
Fish have been seen on the level "Sierra 117" and it has been confirmed that the player can kill [[fauna]].<ref name="Halo3fishies">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813227p2.html |title = IGN interview with Frankie O'connor |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Patrick Kolan |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = IGN |publisher = IGN.com |quote = Toss a grenade on the shore in High Ground and see what kind of wildlife we have!}}</ref>

The game's 49 [[Xbox LIVE#Gamerscore|achievements]] were revealed on [[June 19]], [[2007]].<ref name="Achievements">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360achievements.org/achievements.php?gameID=274 |title = Halo 3 Achievements |accessdate = 2007-07-30 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-19]] |format = HTML |work = |publisher = Xbox360Achievements.org }}</ref>

==Features==
===Forge===
Forge is a tool that enables players to insert game objects into existing maps. Bungie has stated that this should be considered more a gametype than a tool.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] </ref> Almost all weapons, vehicles, and interactive objects (various crates and barriers) can be spawned, moved and placed into maps with Forge. In an example of its uses, one of the testers was able to place an unusually large number of exploding fusion cores in a large vehicle set to as close an instantaneous respawn as the game would allow, which caused the vehicle to charge wildly around the map.
<ref name="BWU-07-08-03">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12685 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/03/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-05 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=139 |archivedate = 2007-08-04 |quote = [...] placed a RIDICULOUS number of exploding fusion cores [...] respawn times set to as close to "instant" as Forge allows [...] }}</ref>
In games where Forge is enabled, players can switch to the editing mode at any time. While in this mode, a player appears to other players as a [[Forerunner (Halo)#Monitors|Forerunner Monitor]] and is still vulnerable to being attacked and killed. Objects can be spawned into the game in real-time and parameters such as ammo counts (for weapons) and respawn rates can be altered for each object.<ref name="edge179" /> The number of objects that can exist in a map at any one time is limited, however, as each object created takes up a set amount of points from the particular map's limit.<ref name="edge179" />

As well as changing alterations to spawn weapons to assist a player in real-time, altered maps can be saved and then recalled in a normal multiplayer game mode. These altered maps can also be transferred to other players using the ''File Sharing'' features. Modifications made by ''Forge'' can change the way a map plays quite drastically from its original configuration. Forge was also the name of the editing tools included in another Bungie game called Marathon.

===Saved films===
''Halo 3'' will have a feature called ''Saved Films''. This feature allows players to save a copy of the game data of a multiplayer match or campaign session to their Xbox 360's [[hard drive]], so that they may watch it later on. It has been confirmed that you can only save 100 files on a hard drive at a time.<ref name="100 gamesaves">{{cite web |url = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=135 |title = HBO |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Lukems |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = HBO |publisher = bungie.net |quote = Players will be able to save up to 100 total films (this is also referenced to in a podcast that it is all items, so 100 films, or 20 "forges" and 80 films, et cetera}}</ref> Though the public beta's implementation was very limited, its functionality is planned to be extended for the final game.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaSavedFilms |title = Saved Films and File Share |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |work = Halo 3 Beta Guide |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref>

{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="Just think about all those stories you've heard, about that game you played the other night, that awesome thing that happened – well, now you can download it and actually check it out."|source=—Tyson Green, Bungie Studios<ref>{{cite web| title=Halo 3:In-depth Bungie Q&A |url=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800901p3.html |last=Kolan |first=Patrick |publisher=IGN.com |date=[[2007-07-01]] |accessdate=2007-08-16}}</ref> }}

Players will be able to view the action from almost any angle and any player's perspective (including a free-roaming camera), as well as being able to slow down the speed and also play the recording in reverse. The Saved Films can even be edited in game to create a shorter clip of a particularly amazing or special moment.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Players can also use the tool to take still pictures from films and upload them to the [[bungie]] website.

As the Saved Films are only the game data (not an actual video), this allows the file sizes to be relatively small. A recording for a typical "long" game is in the region of only 6 [[megabyte|MB]].<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Films will also be played back at whatever resolution the [[Xbox 360]] is set to, regardless of the resolution at which the a player was using at the time of the recording. All games are recreated in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the ''Halo 3'' engine. This allows them to be shared amongst any other [[Xbox 360]] without any compatibility issues because they all run off the same code. The ''Saved Films'' feature is described as an "excellent training aid" since players can gain valuable tactical insight into the strategies of other players by viewing the saved films.<ref name="handson">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/20070511-mulitplayerbeta.htm |title = Hands-On: Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |author = Denny Atkin |date = [[2007-05-11]] |format = HTML |work = Previews on Xbox.com |publisher = Xbox.com }}</ref> Alternatively, they could have a look at other games uploaded through the fileshare.

This feature will also facilitate the creation of [[machinima]] and other game-related videos, as well as give the creators of such videos advanced tools to enhance the quality of this medium. Video game montage creators can save games to the hard drive of their Xbox 360 console for later use, so they never have to miss a camera shot, while machinima directors and cinematographers will have expanded camera options, instead of having to resort to using a first-person, gameplay perspective.

=== File share ===
File Sharing in ''Halo 3'' is an online storage and sharing service for a range of files that are created in the game, and is an extension of the game's online capabilities. Files such as Saved Films, screenshots, custom gametypes and Forge settings can all be uploaded to the ''File Share.'' When the game launches, items stored there then appear on a players [[Bungie.net]] ''Halo 3'' profile, with the ability to comment on them and queue items to download for when the player next plays the game online.<ref name="edge179">{{cite journal |author = Edge (UK) |authorlink = Edge (magazine) |year = 2007 |month = August |title = Finish the Fight |journal = Edge |volume = September 2007 |issue = 179 |pages = 66–77 |issn = 1350-1593 |format = HTML |accessdate = 2007-08-07 |laysummary = http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2007/08/edge_179.php |laysource = Edge-online.co.uk |laydate = 2007-08-04 |quote = }} 
:*'''On Audio:''' ''"- of the 53,595 pieces of audio created by the day we visited, 39,368 were of NPC dialogue"'' 
:*'''On File Sharing:''' ''"Content in players' shared spaces will be shown on Bungie.net, with the ability to post comments and queue clips for download when players next load up the game"'' 
:*'''On Equipment:''' ''"it operates over and above normal combat, [..] that can benefit and disadvantage each side in equal measure."'' 
:*'''On Forge:''' ''"Each object has a certain cost, each map a global budget"''</ref>

Players can view and transfer these files individually to others while they are online, but can also upload them to a central, Bungie run server so friends (or rivals) can then view and download them even when the creating player is not online. During the Beta each player had 25 [[megabyte|MB]] of storage space on the File Share, which may change by the time the final game ships. Bungie announced that players will be able to purchase additional storage space and slots for 750 [[Microsoft Points]], dubbed "Bungie Pro"; all Gold subscribers get 6 file slots and 25MB of storage. Bungie Pro bumps storage up to 24 slots and 250MB. While players with Xbox Live Silver do not have access to the free file-share, they may purchase Bungie Pro to share their files. Bungie has also extended the file-share to their website; players may "flag" files for download (up to 8) on Bungie.net. The next time a user signs on to their Xbox, it will automatically download the flagged files to their hard drive. <ref name="BWU-07-08-17">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12718 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/17/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-19 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-08-17]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=141 |archivedate = 2007-08-17 }}</ref>

==Story==
===Characters===
{{main|Characters in the Halo series}}
The [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] again returns as the main protagonist, with the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] making several major appearances. The other characters below, and some others, have been revealed in promotional media.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!colspan="2"|Playable characters
|-
!Character
!Player
|-
| [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]]
| First
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Arbiter|Arbiter]]
| Second
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#N.E2.80.99tho .E2.80.98Sraom|N’tho ‘Sraom]]
| Third
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Usze .E2.80.98Taham|Usze ‘Taham]]
| Fourth
|-
!colspan="2"|Non-playable characters
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Miranda Keyes|Miranda Keyes]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Cortana]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Sergeant Major A.J. Johnson|A.J. Johnson]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Terrence Hood|Lord Hood]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#The High Prophets|Prophet of Truth]]
|-
|}

===Plot===
The game will not begin right where ''Halo 2'' left off. Instead, the comic mini-series, ''[[Halo: Uprising]]'', will bridge the story gap between the ending of ''Halo 2'', and the beginning of ''Halo 3''.<ref name="H_uprising">{{cite web |url = http://www.halo3.com/html/Halo_Uprising.html |title = Halo: Uprising On Halo3.com |accessdate = 2007-06-22 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-14]] |format = HTML |publisher = Halo3.com |quote = ...the miniseries will bridge the gap between ''Halo 2'' and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated Halo 3 video game... }}</ref> When the game begins, [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] is back on a thoroughly conquered and [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] controlled Earth. Covenant ships are hovering over an excavation site a few miles from the ruins of [[Halo universe#UNSC Planets and Locations|New Mombasa]] and have uncovered a large artifact in this site, and [[Cortana]] is still the prisoner of [[Gravemind]]. The [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]], along with the some [[Covenant Elite|Elites]] have split from the Covenant during the civil war at the end of ''[[Halo 2]]''; it has been hinted that the [[Covenant (Halo)#Grunts|Grunts]] and the [[Covenant (Halo)#Hunters|Hunters]] have joined with the Elites, but recent promotional media show that at least some of the Grunts have sided with the Brutes. The [[Xbox LIVE#Gamer score|Achievements]] show the story mode will be divided into nine main levels, which gives some information about the game's length and an indistinct view of the story arc. Recent promotional items have had a strong memorial feeling to them, hinting at the demise of Master Chief, though strictly through speculative [[circumstantial evidence]].<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/08/03/the-death-of-master-chief-in-halo-3/| authorlink = Falcon, Jonah| title= The Death of Master Chief in Halo 3?| date = [[2007-08-03]]| publisher = [[2old2play.com]]}}</ref>

==Technology==
===Graphics===
[[Image:Halo 3 singleplayer.jpg|thumb|250px|Work-in-progress ''Halo 3'' screenshot of campaign mode originally captured for use in ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''.]]
''Halo 3'' utilizes a proprietary, in-house [[Game engine|graphics engine]], often referred to as the "''Halo 3'' Engine".<ref name="igntrailer">{{cite web |url = http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/706/706251p1.html |title = E3 2k6: Halo 3 Trailer Impressions |accessdate = 2007-06-25 |author = Kathleen Sanders |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = IGN E3 2006 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |quote = ...rendered in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the current version of the Halo 3 engine.}}</ref> This engine builds upon the technologies of the ''Halo 2'' Engine (and previously the ''Halo'' Engine) and is re-optimized for the architecture of the Xbox 360.

As detailed on the [[Bungie Studios]] website, it will employ advanced graphics technologies such as [[High dynamic range rendering|High Dynamic Range]], global lighting, real-time reflections and [[depth of field]] effects within cutscenes.<ref>{{cite web | title =Bungie | url =http://www.bungie.net | accessdate =2007-06-29 }}</ref> Certain surfaces, including the Master Chief's visor (when visible) and the armor of a Ghost, will have real-time reflections (These were, however, not present within the Beta.). Most of the dynamic objects in the game will cast real-time shadows on themselves and the environment around them, including the game's plant life. ''Halo 3'' will use [[Normal mapping|normal]], [[Bump mapping|bump]], and [[parallax mapping]] to give surfaces more detail without dramatically increasing the number of polygons.

Bungie has also stated that the [[draw distance]] of the game will be in excess of {{mi to km|10}}. Sophisticated new atmospheric models are used in the game to replace the traditional [[skybox (video games)|skybox]],<ref>{{cite video | people = alextotherescue | year = 2007 | date = May 25 | title = Halo 3: Sky Testing Part 2 | url = http://youtube.com/watch?v=aFnbhQU0lcY | format = flash | publisher = Clan Hat Trick | accessdate = 2007-05-27}}</ref> allowing several layers of cloud and atmospheric cover, and even a pseudo "space" beyond that.

[[Water]] effects are also dramatically improved, as water can now reflect and refract images simultaneously. As well as being able to simulate effects such as waterfalls, water will visually flow around objects in its path and splash when players, vehicles, or other objects travel through it.

===Physics===
''Halo 3'', like ''[[Halo 2]]'', uses a version of the [[Havok (software)|Havok]] physics engine for much of its physics calculations<ref name="cid12545">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12545 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 06/15/07 |accessdate = 2007-06-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = ..and this isn’t a Havok physics issue, this is a bug with the Halo melee physics...}}</ref> <ref name="havokgames">{{cite web |url = http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/ |title = Havok - Upcoming Releases |accessdate = 2007-07-13 |author = Havok Inc |date = |format = HTML |publisher = Havok.com |quote = The following game titles on current and next-generation Xbox 360 and Playstation®3 platforms will be released utilizing Havok products [...] Halo 3}}</ref> (although parts of the physics, like melee, are done with custom code on top of the [[Game engine#Middleware|middleware]]).

A wide variety of objects are affected by physical interactions in ''Halo 3''. Crates, canisters, objective objects, dropped weapons, characters, bodies, vehicles, and some parts of the world geometry all interact with each other and the world around them in believable physical ways. Trajectories of thrown objects are also affected by the gravity lifts in the game (including the "Mancannon").

Some of the foliage in the game is physically reactive; it not only moves in the simulated wind, but actually reacts to the player's (or other creatures) presence and bullet fire, as well as explosions. Some flora in the game will also be destroyed after receiving enough damage.

===Audio===
As with all titles on the [[Xbox 360]], ''Halo 3'' will fully support [[Surround sound#5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)|5.1 surround sound]] audio. In the game, there will be over 50,000 pieces of audio, with nearly 40,000 of those being NPC dialogue.<ref name="edge179" /> This is many more than in either of the preceding ''Halo'' titles; ''[[Halo 2]]'' had over 15,000 pieces of dialogue. The AI controlling this dialogue is designed to ensure the exchanges flow naturally and convincingly.

Separate recordings have been made for nearby and distant gunfire to make for a more believable sound experience. Distant gunfire sounds, which may first seem like prerecorded ambient sound, may often be the result of an actual firefight happening somewhere in the game. [[Marty O'Donnell]] is again composing the original score. Some pieces of the game's music are produced with a much larger real orchestra than anything in the prior two games. For example, the music for the announcement trailer was recorded with a 60-piece orchestra and a 24-piece [[choir]].<ref name="announcement" /> Voice actors returning to reprise their roles in ''Halo 3'' include: [[Jen Taylor]] as Cortana and [[Steve Downes]] as the voice of Master Chief. Actress [[Julie Benz]], however, is not voicing Miranda Keyes for ''Halo 3''.<ref name="mirandakeyes">{{cite web |url = http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7B586AE81D-35CC-4DE1-AAD8-920B33FDDDFC%7D |title = Dexter's No. 1 Gal — Julie Benz |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author = Matt Webb Mitovich |date = [[2006-12-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = TVGuide.com |quote = Benz: You know what? I am actually not a part of Halo 3. }}</ref>

==Versions==
[[Image:Halo 3 front-1-.jpg|175px|thumb|''Halo 3 Collector's Edition'' cover.]]
[[Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg|175px|thumb||left|''Halo 3 Legendary Edition'' box and helmet.]]

There will be three different versions of ''Halo 3'' for retail sale: the Standard Edition, which contains the game disc and a manual; the Collector's Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive Xbox 360 bonus disc with several featurettes, and Beastiarum, which is a "hard cover, bound collection of information and art covering the species, cultures and civilizations of ''Halo 3''." according to Bungie; and the Legendary Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive bonus disc, Beastiarum, Legendary DVD containing special content exclusive to the Legendary Edition, and a scale replica of the Master Chief's Helmet as a case for the three discs.<ref name="versions">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531 |title = Three Versions of Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-06-08 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-08]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=130 |archivedate = 2007-06-09}}</ref>

{|class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto;"
!valign="right"| Features
!Standard
!Collector's
!Legendary
|-
|Price ([[United States dollar|USD]])
|$59.99
|$69.99
|$129.99
|-
|Price ([[British Pound Sterling|GBP]])
|£39.99
|£44.99
|£69.99
|-
|Price ([[Singapore Dollar|SGD]])
|$69.90
|$79.90
|N.A.
|-
|Game Disc & Manual
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Interactive Xbox 360 Disc
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Beastiarum
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (book)
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (DVD)
|-
|Legendary DVD
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Master Chief Helmet Replica
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|}

==Marketing==
[[Image:GAME FUEL version of Mt. Dew.jpg|thumb|100px|Mountain Dew Game Fuel.]]
{{main|Marketing for Halo 3}}
Various marketing techniques have been employed in promoting the release of ''Halo 3''. This has included various trailers of the game; real-time [[cinematic]]s, recorded [[gameplay]] sequences, pre-rendered [[Computer-generated imagery|CGI]] and even [[live action]] film. Throughout the course of development several "developer documentaries" were released, which explain the processes behind creating parts of the game. A large scale multiplayer Beta test was played on Xbox Live with many members of the public being able to take part and experience the game for themselves. Beginning in June 2007, [[Iris (game)|''Iris'']], an [[alternate reality game]], began on the internet, designed to create hype for the game while involving players in slowing revealing some background information for the game.

In addition to high profile events, Bungie often talked about the game in its Weekly Update, occasionally releasing media of the game on their site. Numerous interviews with Bungie staff have been conducted by many gaming press establishments, covering a vast range of subjects. Magazines and journals also occasionally ran stories revealing new information. [[Pepsi-Cola]] have announced a new line of soft drink, a variant of [[Mountain Dew]] named [[Marketing for Halo 3#Mountain Dew Game Fuel|Game Fuel]]. The packaging reflects ''Halo 3'', sporting images of [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/809/809612p1.html |title=Halo 3 Box Arrives at IGN Offices |accessdate=2007-08-22 |publisher=IGN }}</ref> As ''Halo 3'' draws nearer to completion and release the marketing drive is set to increase. Much of the advertising to date has focused on appealing to the general public, rather than just hardcore fans of the game. Microsoft announced on [[August 9]], [[2007]], that [[pre-order]]s for ''Halo 3'' had exceeded one million in North America.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20196977/| title=‘Halo 3’ breaks pre-order record | publisher=msnbc.com |date=[[2007-08-09]] | accessdate=2007-08-19}}</ref> However, has not yet equalled ''Halo 2''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s record-setting 1.5 million pre-orders.<ref>{{cite news | title=Halo 3 Passes 1M Pre-Orders|publisher=[[1UP.com]]|date=[[2007-08-09]]|first=Mark |last=Whiting|accessdate=2007-08-14 |url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161856}}</ref> Some [[7-Eleven]] stores have recently begun advertising ''Halo 3'' and will be selling copies of the game.<ref>{{cite web| url=http://www.xbox360rally.com/reserve-halo-3-at-7-11-today/ |title=Reserve Halo 3 at 7-11 TODAY! |accessdate=2007-08-22 |date=[[2007-08-06]] |publisher=Xbox 360 Rally}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Iris (game)|''Iris'' (game)]]
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*[[Halo universe]]
*[[Bungie Studios]]
*[[Microsoft Game Studios]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.halo3.com Official site]
*[http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Halo3/default.aspx Official ''Halo 3'' site at Bungie.net]
*[http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/ ''Halo 3'' at Xbox.com]
*[http://www.halo3countdown.com ''Halo 3'' Countdown]
*[[Wikia:Halo:Halo 3|''Halo 3'' article at Halopedia]]
*[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]

{{Halo series}}
{{Bungie Studios}}

[[Category:2007 video games]]
[[Category:Video game sequels]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360-only games]]
[[Category:Halo games]]
[[Category:Cooperative video games]]

[[es:Halo 3]]
[[fr:Halo 3]]
[[it:Halo 3]]
[[nl:Halo 3]]
[[ja:Halo 3]]
[[no:Halo 3]]
[[pl:Halo 3]]
[[fi:Halo 3]]
[[sv:Halo 3]]

Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:28:34Z

Duff man2007:

<noinclude>{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}</noinclude>
{{future game}}
{{Infobox CVG
|title = Halo 3
|image = [[Image:Halo 3 final boxshot.JPG|256px]]
|developer = [[Bungie Studios]]
|publisher = [[Microsoft Game Studios]]
|designer =
|series = ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]''
|engine = Halo Engine ([[Proprietary]])
|picture format = [[720p]] ([[HDTV]]) 
|version =
|released = {{vgrelease|North America|NA|[[September 25]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12467 |title = Finish the Fight on September 25, 2007 |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie Software |quote = On September 25, 2007, players will be able to finish the fight they started in Halo: Combat Evolved and continued in Halo 2. Halo 3 will release in Europe on September 26, 2007}}</ref> 
{{vgrelease|Europe|EU|[[September 26]] [[2007]]}}<ref name=releasedate /> 
{{vgrelease|Japan|JP|[[September 27]] [[2007]]}}<ref name="japrelease">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/ja-JP/games/h/halo3/ |title = Halo 3 Page Xbox Japan |accessdate = 2007-06-15 |author = Microsoft Games Studio |authorlink = Microsoft Game Studios |year = 2007 |format = HTML |publisher = Xbox.com/ja-JP/ |language = Japanese |quote = 発売日: 2007/09/27 }}</ref>
|genre = [[First-person shooter]]
|modes = [[Single player]], [[Co-op]], [[Co-op|Online co-op]], [[Multiplayer]], and [[Online multiplayer]] [[Halo 3#Forge|Forge]] [[Halo 3#Meta-game|Meta-game]]
|ratings = [[Entertainment Software Rating Board|ESRB]]: M [[British Board of Film Classification|BBFC]]: 15<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/0/1FB3194D3E47659580257341004F4642?OpenDocument|title=Halo 3 BBFC Rating Page|accessdate=2007-08-24}} </ref> 
[[Computer Entertainment Rating Organization|CERO]]: D [[Office of Film and Literature Classification (Australia)|OFLC]]: M<ref>{{web cite|url=http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=46&p=156&sTitle=Halo+3&sTitleExact=1&sMediaGames=1&sDateFromM=1&sDateFromY=2003&sDateToM=10&sDateToY=2007&record=221739|title=HALO 3 Game (Multi Platform)|publisher=The Classification Board and Classification Review Board|accessdate=2007-07-18}}</ref>
|platforms = [[Xbox 360]]
|media = [[DVD-DL]]
|requirements =
|input = [[Gamepad#Xbox 360|Xbox 360 Controller]]
|footnotes =
}}
'''''Halo 3''''', the final [[video game]] in the ''Halo'' trilogy, is an upcoming [[first-person shooter]] by [[Bungie Studios]] for the [[Xbox 360]]. An official announcement on the developer's website states that ''Halo 3'' will end the current [[story arc]] of the [[Halo (series)|''Halo'' trilogy]].<ref name="announcement">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=Halo3Announcement |title = Halo 3 Announced |accessdate = 2007-08-06 |author = Achronos |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Bungie |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref> A public [[beta test]] of the multiplayer component of the game occurred between [[May 16]], [[2007]] and [[June 10]], [[2007]].<ref name=multiplayermadness>{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=MPBetaAndVidocRelease |title = Inside Bungie: Multiplayer Madness! |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta will go live on May 16th at 12:00 AM PDT and run through June 6th at 11:59 PM PDT}}</ref> The final version of the game is due to be released on [[September 25]], [[2007]]<ref name=releasedate /> in the [[United States]], [[Brazil]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]], and [[Singapore]], [[September 26]], [[2007]] in [[Europe]] and [[September 27]], [[2007]] in [[Japan]]. On [[August 29]], [[2007]], Bungie officially stated that ''Halo 3'' has gone [[Software release life cycle#Gold or general availability release|gold]].<ref name=gold>{{cite web |url=http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12737 |title=Halo's Gone Gold! |accessdate=2007-08-29 |author=Luke Smith (lukems) |date=2007-08-29 |format=HTML |work=Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net}}</ref>



==Gameplay==
The gameplay of ''Halo 3'' largely builds upon the previous successful renditions of the franchise. It is a [[first-person shooter]] that, once again, follows the character [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] and his struggle against the [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] and the [[Flood (Halo)|Flood]]. The game's action takes place largely on foot, but there are [[vehicles]] available for the player to use at certain points in the game. As with the other ''[[Halo (series)|Halo]]'' titles, the [[multiplayer]] portion of the game is one of the game's most celebrated features, and is one of the reasons for the series' enormous success.

The balance of weapons and objects in the game has been adjusted to better adhere to what Multiplayer Designer Lars Bakken describes as the "Golden Three Things of ''Halo''". These are "weapons, grenades, and mêlée"; all three of which are simultaneously available to a player at all times while on foot (unless they are dual wielding or using one of the new class of support weapons).

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are famously limited to only two weapons at any one time in ''Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overpowered for every type of situation the player might encounter.

The new default controller layout will see the Right Bumper become the "action" button (pick up, reload, board vehicles, activate switches, etc), with the '''X''' button being used for deployment of equipment<ref name="betaquestions">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/04/10/halo-3-video-questions-cleared-up/ |title = Halo 3 video questions cleared up |accessdate = 2007-04-17 |author = Dustin Burg |date = [[2007-04-10]] |format = HTML |work = Xbox 360 fanboy Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = Xbox360fanboy.com |quote = ..the new bubble shield, trip mine, are 2 of the X button's deployments ...}}</ref> (see ''Equipment'' below). When dual-wielding, weapons can be individually reloaded using either the left or right bumper. Other buttons are unchanged, but '''B''' (melee attack) also will be used to take a stationary gun turret off its tripod for mobile use, becoming one of the game's "support weapons" (see ''Weaponry'' below), <ref name="Kotaku 07-05-11">{{cite video | people = Frank O'connor (presenter), Richard Blakeley (Camera), Michael McWhertor (News Writer) |date = [[2007-05-11]] |title = Kotaku Beta Preview Presentation | url = http://kotaku.com/gaming/has-anyone-here-seen-predator%3F/new-video-of-halo-3-beta-map-weapons-259861.php |format = Flash video/ HTML) |medium = Presentation |publisher = Kotaku.com |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |time = 2:30}}</ref>. As with previous games however, players can still choose to change the default control layout in their game profile to a number of pre-sets. <ref name="betacontrols">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaWhatsNew |title = H3 Public Beta: Whats new? |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML/ASP |work = Guide to the Halo 3 Beta |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The default button layout is one of four available in the Beta }}</ref>

===Campaign===
The only officially broadcast campaign footage released has been at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2006 trailer|E3 2006]], the [[Marketing for Halo 3#"Et tu, Brute?" video documentary|"Et Tu, Brute?"]] Vidoc and again at [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|E3 2007]]. There are several distinct types of environments that players will have to traverse in ''Halo 3''; lush jungles, built up towns and sparse desert environments have all been seen.

Other campaign footage has been shown to people at other gaming conventions such as [[Games Convention|Leipzig]] and this is Tsavo Highway, the third level in the game.

[[AI]] behavior of both enemies and allies in the campaign will be greatly enhanced in ''Halo 3''. Marines' driving and gunning skills on the Warthog, Grunt flanking maneuvers in battle, and Brute "[[Herd behavior|pack mentality]]" have all been mentioned by Bungie as examples of using the power of the Xbox 360 for more than making the game look better. Enemy AI will also have new non-combat behaviors, rather than just sitting around waiting for players to kill them, to make them feel more "alive" and realistic.

====Cooperative play====
[[Image:Halo 3 online co-op.jpg|left|thumb|225px|Master Chief alongside the Arbiter, N’tho ‘Sraom and Usze ‘Taham.]]
''Halo 3'' features up to four player [[cooperative gameplay]] over [[Xbox LIVE]] or [[System Link]] and two player cooperative split-screen.<ref name="soundofsack" /> Although previous games also supported split-screen co-op, system link and XBL variants of this game mode is a first for the series. Players playing split-screen can also join other players over system link and Xbox LIVE for a total of up to four players.

For plot reasons, instead of having each player be an identical [[SPARTAN-II Project|Spartan]] like in previous ''Halo'' games, the first player will play as [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]], the second player the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] and the other two players newly created Elites; [[N’tho ‘Sraom]] and [[Usze ‘Taham]] each with their own backstories. Each player has identical abilities although the starting weapon will be different depending on whether the player is Master Chief or an Elite.<ref name="soundofsack">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack |title = The Tru7h About Co-Op in Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-08-02 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-07-31]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> Master Chief will have the Battle Rifle, while the Elites will be equipped with Carbines depending on which mission they are on.

====Meta-game====
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The ultimate task will be to beat every mission in Legendary difficulty with all skulls turned on in a certain time limit with style... To get the highest possible score."|source=—Brian Jarrard, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}
''Halo 3'' features a "campaign meta-game" in which a player is awarded a numerical score based on their performance while completing a level in the campaign. Points mostly come from defeating enemies, with extra points being awarded for stylish moves such as performing "headshots", or progressing through a level quickly. Finding and activating Skulls, a continuation of [[Halo 2]]'s gameplay-altering [[Easter egg (virtual)|easter eggs]], allows a player to obtain even higher scores in the meta-game. As it records individual performance for each player, the meta-game also introduces a competitive aspect to co-op play. If a player themselves die, or kill a co-op teammate however, they will lose points.<ref name="edge179" /> Campaign play also unlocks even more armor permutations for use in multiplayer.<ref name="screenshotsgalore">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12616 |title = Way Beyond the Beta: Screenshots Galore |accessdate = 2007-07-04 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-03]] |format = HTML /ASPX |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = The C.Q.B. (Close Quarters Battle) and E.V.A. (Extra Vehicular Activity) variants of Spartans are two of the numerous permutations players will be able to unlock in Halo 3}}</ref>

[[Gamerscore]] is awarded for successfully getting over a certain score in each level,<ref name="Achievements" /> and medals are awarded for specific accomplishments.

===Multiplayer===
[[Image:High Ground Gate.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Halo 3'' multiplayer map High Ground]]
Up to four people can participate in multiplayer match on a single [[Xbox 360]] in ''Halo 3'' via a [[Split screen (computer graphics)|split screen]] layout. Up to sixteen may participate in a single match over a [[LAN]] or [[Xbox Live]]. A combination of some or all of these methods may be combined for a match with up to sixteen players.

Like most multiplayer Xbox 360 titles, ''Halo 3'' will use a customized version of [[TrueSkill]] ranking system for its online matchmaking facilities. ''Halo 3''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s matchmaking system will be based on two different ranks, skill and experience (Rating Points or RP). Skill will simply be the TrueSkill rank of the player in a given playlist, and experience (RP) is a linear measure of experience (1 point for each win in the online playlists). Overlaid by a Military rank; so, a player with a designation of a "General" will have played for a longer time than someone who is a "recruit". This is in order to make the system more fair and to reflect the effect of experience on players' profiles.<ref name="1up-3155479"> {{cite web |url = http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3155479 |title = The Five Best Things About Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author= Luke Smith |date = [[2006-11-24]] |format = HTML |work = 1up Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = 1up.com }}</ref> The RP system also has a mechanism built in to dissuade players from excessive quitting from matches, which became a problem for some players in Halo 2. When players quit from a match before it has finished, they will lose 2 RP. So players that regularly quit games, leaving their teammates stranded, may eventually end up having ''negative'' RP.

The UI (user interface) has been redesigned from ''Halo 2'', making it easier to generate a custom game in ''Halo 3'' multiplayer, which can now be saved and shared online with the File Sharing Features. Players will now be able to "advertise" their custom games via [[Xbox Live]] Public; making it easier to find a multiplayer match to a player's taste without having to link up with friends.<ref name="1up-3155479" /> To help players have an enjoyable time online, a new feature dubbed the "[[asshole|A-hole]] button" allows players to mute annoying players in the game quickly and easily from the in-game scoreboard view.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gamespot.com/news/6165796.html |title=Halo 3 gets shutup button |accessdate=2007-04-28}}</ref> People sifting through the code, as well as those who used a glitch to find their way into the custom game UI, of the ''Halo 3'' Beta have found that the strength of gravity is indeed a customizable option in multiplayer games, confirming statements made by Bungie employees.<ref name="customgrav">{{cite web|url=http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/503973679_660e011151.jpg|title=Custom gravity options in Halo 3 Beta menus|accessdate=2007-05-24}}</ref> In addition to existing gametype settings from previous games, new "player traits" allow players to set specific altered abilities to all players and different (if they wish) abilities to the leaders of a game, expanding the amount of gametype customization available still further.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

===Weapons===
[[Image:Copy of Missile Pod Header.jpg|right|thumb|150px|A Spartan Holding a Missle Pod]]
Most of the weapons available in previous installments of the series return with minor cosmetic and power alterations; including the Battle Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Covenant Plasma Rifle, Brute Shot and the Covenant Needler. The now-iconic Assault Rifle which appeared in the original ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]]'' as the MA5B, but was absent from ''[[Halo 2]]'' is returning for ''Halo 3'' retooled into the MA5C. Developer [[Bungie]] hopes it will fill the role as the "ultimate spawn weapon", allowing players to hold their own in a fight straight away (unlike the SMG in ''Halo 2'') but not be so powerful as to overshadow all of the other weapons (like the M6D in ''Halo''). In hopes of fulfilling this, it has a smaller magazine and slower rate of fire than its previous iteration but a longer range, greater accuracy, and more fire power.

''Halo 3'' introduces a new-to-the-series class called "support weapons". These are a group of exceptionally large, powerful and cumbersome two-handed weapons that, when carried, change the view to a third-person perspective and cause the player to move more slowly. The two weapons available in this class during the Public Beta were the Machine Gun Turret and Missile Pod, although a [[Flamethrower]] also features in this class as well as a new covenant plasma turret.<ref name="ignburning">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html |title = Burn, Baby! Burn! |accessdate = 2007-08-10 |author = Hilary Goldstein |authorlink = IGN |date = [[2007-08-10]] |format = HTML |work = IGN Halo 3 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |pages =1–2 }}</ref>

As a visual change to the weapons, when a player is carrying a second weapon in ''Halo 3'', the secondary weapon will be stored on the character's back (for larger, two-handed weapons) or on a leg holster (for smaller, one-handed weapons). This makes it impossible to "hide" a powerful secondary weapon and surprise unsuspecting foes.

===Equipment===
{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="The 30 seconds of fun has become 30 seconds of fun and five of total astonishment."|source=—Jaime Griesemer, Bungie Studios<ref name="edge179"/>|}}

A new class of usable items in ''Halo 3'' are known as ''Equipment''. These items have various effects and functions, ranging from defensive effects (Bubble Shield and Regenerator), or objects which blind or confuse the enemy (Flare<ref name="edge179" /> and Radar Jammer), to ones which can actually harm and kill (Power Drainer and Tripmine). Most of these are named by their function.

They are not designed to give one player a significant advantage, as they affect both sides equally, but as items which change the dynamic of a fight momentarily. The Bubble Shield, for example, produces a protective dome but, a person inside cannot fire out, just as a person outside cannot fire in. This creates a stalemate situation until the Bubble Shield fails, or players move through the shield onto one side of it. Equally, once the Portable Gravity Lift is dropped it can be used by both sides to gain greater height into the air, often to get over specific obstacles.

[[Image:Halo 3 Equipment.jpg|left|thumb|225px|A small selection of equipment available in Halo 3.]]

===Vehicles===
''Halo 3'', like its predecessors, will also feature a strong vehicular component. Vehicles, and their countermeasures (rockets, mines, etc.), are tightly integrated with ''Halo'' gameplay. Many of the series' vehicles are returning in the third installment. Vehicles cover a wide range of types, including light [[reconnaissance]] vehicles, large, heavily armoured [[tanks]], troop and vehicle transport craft, plus various atmospheric and spacecraft, though not all are usable by the player.

The Mongoose ATV, a small quad bike, originally designed for [[Halo 2]] but later cut out, is available as a vehicle in ''Halo 3''. A second player can ride on the back of the vehicle to provide some offensive capability. There will also be a new variant of [[Warthog]], with rear seats for troops instead of a gun, and a light human aircraft called the Hornet which is similar in function to the [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]]. They can both be seen briefly in the [[E3 2007]] video. The Hornet will not feature in Matchmaking because it is "too overpowered" and thus will only be accessible in custom games, Campaign, or the Forge gametype.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] }}</ref>

There are also two entirely new [[The Covenant (Halo)#Brute|Brute]] vehicles, dubbed the "Brute Chopper" and "Brute Prowler" to expand the "Brute sandbox". Unlike other vehicles attributed to The Covenant in the game, that entirely hover or fly above the ground, the Chopper has a single large and heavy wheel on the front with a hovering driver seat behind. <ref name="chopper">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/projects/halo3/content.aspx?link=chopperfiction |title = The Brute Chopper |accessdate = 2007-07-07 |author = Lukems |date = [[2007-07-06]] |format = HTML /ASP |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref> It has been referred to as a "vehicle smasher," able to destroy other vehicles with a single hit. Insofar it has only been seen in the [[E3 2007]] [[Marketing for Halo 3#E3 2007 trailer|Trailer]]. The Brute Prowler however, is closer in function to a Brute version of the Warthog.<ref name="egmseptember" /> It has a plasma turret in front, a driver in back, and two side seats, similar to the Covenant [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Spectre|Spectre]] in [[Halo 2]].

The [[The Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Banshee|Banshee]] aircraft and [[Covenant Vehicles in Halo#Wraith|Wraith]] tank have been altered in terms of gameplay. The Banshee now has the ability to fire its Fuel Rod Gun in multiplayer matches, an ability which was formerly restricted to Campaign and the multiplayer of [[Halo: Combat Evolved|Halo]] for [[Microsoft Windows|Windows]] and [[Macintosh|Mac]]. But as a trade-off it can no longer point directly down. The Wraith can now carry two people instead of one. One drives the vehicle and fires the main cannon, while the other fires the smaller plasma turret. The plasma turret was formerly exclusive to AI in the ''Halo 2'' campaign.

The largest drivable vehicle in the game is a UNSC transport vehicle named "The Elephant".<ref name="egmseptember" /> The vehicle is armed with an anti-aircraft gun at the front, has a Mongoose in its belly, and can transport an additional 2 Mongooses, a Warthog, and a Scorpion tank along with 12 infantry. In multiplayer the vehicle serves as a mobile base where players can respawn, and also holds both the flag and capture points for certain multiplayer objective modes. Because of its size, it only features on the largest multiplayer map: Sand Trap, and it is unknown whether it will make an appearance in campaign.

===Miscellaneous===
Fish have been seen on the level "Sierra 117" and it has been confirmed that the player can kill [[fauna]].<ref name="Halo3fishies">{{cite web |url = http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/813/813227p2.html |title = IGN interview with Frankie O'connor |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Patrick Kolan |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = IGN |publisher = IGN.com |quote = Toss a grenade on the shore in High Ground and see what kind of wildlife we have!}}</ref>

The game's 49 [[Xbox LIVE#Gamerscore|achievements]] were revealed on [[June 19]], [[2007]].<ref name="Achievements">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox360achievements.org/achievements.php?gameID=274 |title = Halo 3 Achievements |accessdate = 2007-07-30 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-19]] |format = HTML |work = |publisher = Xbox360Achievements.org }}</ref>

==Features==
===Forge===
Forge is a tool that enables players to insert game objects into existing maps. Bungie has stated that this should be considered more a gametype than a tool.<ref name="Bungie-podcast082707">{{cite web |url = http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/8/5/d85ce76f-0cb2-41df-aaae-a8c96790332b/Bungie_Podcast_082807.mp3 |title = podcast |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = bungie |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] </ref> Almost all weapons, vehicles, and interactive objects (various crates and barriers) can be spawned, moved and placed into maps with Forge. In an example of its uses, one of the testers was able to place an unusually large number of exploding fusion cores in a large vehicle set to as close an instantaneous respawn as the game would allow, which caused the vehicle to charge wildly around the map.
<ref name="BWU-07-08-03">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12685 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/03/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-05 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |coauthors = Luke Smith (Lukems) |date = [[2007-08-03]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=139 |archivedate = 2007-08-04 |quote = [...] placed a RIDICULOUS number of exploding fusion cores [...] respawn times set to as close to "instant" as Forge allows [...] }}</ref>
In games where Forge is enabled, players can switch to the editing mode at any time. While in this mode, a player appears to other players as a [[Forerunner (Halo)#Monitors|Forerunner Monitor]] and is still vulnerable to being attacked and killed. Objects can be spawned into the game in real-time and parameters such as ammo counts (for weapons) and respawn rates can be altered for each object.<ref name="edge179" /> The number of objects that can exist in a map at any one time is limited, however, as each object created takes up a set amount of points from the particular map's limit.<ref name="edge179" />

As well as changing alterations to spawn weapons to assist a player in real-time, altered maps can be saved and then recalled in a normal multiplayer game mode. These altered maps can also be transferred to other players using the ''File Sharing'' features. Modifications made by ''Forge'' can change the way a map plays quite drastically from its original configuration. Forge was also the name of the editing tools included in another Bungie game called Marathon.

===Saved films===
''Halo 3'' will have a feature called ''Saved Films''. This feature allows players to save a copy of the game data of a multiplayer match or campaign session to their Xbox 360's [[hard drive]], so that they may watch it later on. It has been confirmed that you can only save 100 files on a hard drive at a time.<ref name="100 gamesaves">{{cite web |url = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=135 |title = HBO |accessdate = 2007-09-02 |author = Lukems |date = [[2006-09-02]] |format = HTML |work = HBO |publisher = bungie.net |quote = Players will be able to save up to 100 total films (this is also referenced to in a podcast that it is all items, so 100 films, or 20 "forges" and 80 films, et cetera}}</ref> Though the public beta's implementation was very limited, its functionality is planned to be extended for the final game.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/content.aspx?link=h3betaSavedFilms |title = Saved Films and File Share |accessdate = 2007-05-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-05-15]] |format = HTML |work = Halo 3 Beta Guide |publisher = Bungie.net }}</ref>

{{Quote_box|width=25%|align=right|quote="Just think about all those stories you've heard, about that game you played the other night, that awesome thing that happened – well, now you can download it and actually check it out."|source=—Tyson Green, Bungie Studios<ref>{{cite web| title=Halo 3:In-depth Bungie Q&A |url=http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/800/800901p3.html |last=Kolan |first=Patrick |publisher=IGN.com |date=[[2007-07-01]] |accessdate=2007-08-16}}</ref> }}

Players will be able to view the action from almost any angle and any player's perspective (including a free-roaming camera), as well as being able to slow down the speed and also play the recording in reverse. The Saved Films can even be edited in game to create a shorter clip of a particularly amazing or special moment.<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Players can also use the tool to take still pictures from films and upload them to the [[bungie]] website.

As the Saved Films are only the game data (not an actual video), this allows the file sizes to be relatively small. A recording for a typical "long" game is in the region of only 6 [[megabyte|MB]].<ref name="h3betaSavedFilms" /> Films will also be played back at whatever resolution the [[Xbox 360]] is set to, regardless of the resolution at which the a player was using at the time of the recording. All games are recreated in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the ''Halo 3'' engine. This allows them to be shared amongst any other [[Xbox 360]] without any compatibility issues because they all run off the same code. The ''Saved Films'' feature is described as an "excellent training aid" since players can gain valuable tactical insight into the strategies of other players by viewing the saved films.<ref name="handson">{{cite web |url = http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/20070511-mulitplayerbeta.htm |title = Hands-On: Halo 3 Multiplayer Beta |accessdate = 2007-05-12 |author = Denny Atkin |date = [[2007-05-11]] |format = HTML |work = Previews on Xbox.com |publisher = Xbox.com }}</ref> Alternatively, they could have a look at other games uploaded through the fileshare.

This feature will also facilitate the creation of [[machinima]] and other game-related videos, as well as give the creators of such videos advanced tools to enhance the quality of this medium. Video game montage creators can save games to the hard drive of their Xbox 360 console for later use, so they never have to miss a camera shot, while machinima directors and cinematographers will have expanded camera options, instead of having to resort to using a first-person, gameplay perspective.

=== File share ===
File Sharing in ''Halo 3'' is an online storage and sharing service for a range of files that are created in the game, and is an extension of the game's online capabilities. Files such as Saved Films, screenshots, custom gametypes and Forge settings can all be uploaded to the ''File Share.'' When the game launches, items stored there then appear on a players [[Bungie.net]] ''Halo 3'' profile, with the ability to comment on them and queue items to download for when the player next plays the game online.<ref name="edge179">{{cite journal |author = Edge (UK) |authorlink = Edge (magazine) |year = 2007 |month = August |title = Finish the Fight |journal = Edge |volume = September 2007 |issue = 179 |pages = 66–77 |issn = 1350-1593 |format = HTML |accessdate = 2007-08-07 |laysummary = http://www.edge-online.co.uk/archives/2007/08/edge_179.php |laysource = Edge-online.co.uk |laydate = 2007-08-04 |quote = }} 
:*'''On Audio:''' ''"- of the 53,595 pieces of audio created by the day we visited, 39,368 were of NPC dialogue"'' 
:*'''On File Sharing:''' ''"Content in players' shared spaces will be shown on Bungie.net, with the ability to post comments and queue clips for download when players next load up the game"'' 
:*'''On Equipment:''' ''"it operates over and above normal combat, [..] that can benefit and disadvantage each side in equal measure."'' 
:*'''On Forge:''' ''"Each object has a certain cost, each map a global budget"''</ref>

Players can view and transfer these files individually to others while they are online, but can also upload them to a central, Bungie run server so friends (or rivals) can then view and download them even when the creating player is not online. During the Beta each player had 25 [[megabyte|MB]] of storage space on the File Share, which may change by the time the final game ships. Bungie announced that players will be able to purchase additional storage space and slots for 750 [[Microsoft Points]], dubbed "Bungie Pro"; all Gold subscribers get 6 file slots and 25MB of storage. Bungie Pro bumps storage up to 24 slots and 250MB. While players with Xbox Live Silver do not have access to the free file-share, they may purchase Bungie Pro to share their files. Bungie has also extended the file-share to their website; players may "flag" files for download (up to 8) on Bungie.net. The next time a user signs on to their Xbox, it will automatically download the flagged files to their hard drive. <ref name="BWU-07-08-17">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12718 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 08/17/07 |accessdate = 2007-08-19 |author = Luke Smith (Lukems) |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-08-17]] |format = HTML |work = Inside Bungie |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=141 |archivedate = 2007-08-17 }}</ref>

==Story==
===Characters===
{{main|Characters in the Halo series}}
The [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] again returns as the main protagonist, with the [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]] making several major appearances. The other characters below, and some others, have been revealed in promotional media.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!colspan="2"|Playable characters
|-
!Character
!Player
|-
| [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]]
| First
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Arbiter|Arbiter]]
| Second
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#N.E2.80.99tho .E2.80.98Sraom|N’tho ‘Sraom]]
| Third
|-
| [[Characters in the Halo series#Usze .E2.80.98Taham|Usze ‘Taham]]
| Fourth
|-
!colspan="2"|Non-playable characters
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Miranda Keyes|Miranda Keyes]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Cortana]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Sergeant Major A.J. Johnson|A.J. Johnson]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#Terrence Hood|Lord Hood]]
|-
|colspan="2"| [[Characters in the Halo series#The High Prophets|Prophet of Truth]]
|-
|}

===Plot===
The game will not begin right where ''Halo 2'' left off. Instead, the comic mini-series, ''[[Halo: Uprising]]'', will bridge the story gap between the ending of ''Halo 2'', and the beginning of ''Halo 3''.<ref name="H_uprising">{{cite web |url = http://www.halo3.com/html/Halo_Uprising.html |title = Halo: Uprising On Halo3.com |accessdate = 2007-06-22 |author = Bungie Studios |authorlink = Bungie Studios |date = [[2007-06-14]] |format = HTML |publisher = Halo3.com |quote = ...the miniseries will bridge the gap between ''Halo 2'' and the upcoming release of the highly-anticipated Halo 3 video game... }}</ref> When the game begins, [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]] is back on a thoroughly conquered and [[Covenant (Halo)|Covenant]] controlled Earth. Covenant ships are hovering over an excavation site a few miles from the ruins of [[Halo universe#UNSC Planets and Locations|New Mombasa]] and have uncovered a large artifact in this site, and [[Cortana]] is still the prisoner of [[Gravemind]]. The [[Arbiter (Halo)|Arbiter]], along with the some [[Covenant Elite|Elites]] have split from the Covenant during the civil war at the end of ''[[Halo 2]]''; it has been hinted that the [[Covenant (Halo)#Grunts|Grunts]] and the [[Covenant (Halo)#Hunters|Hunters]] have joined with the Elites, but recent promotional media show that at least some of the Grunts have sided with the Brutes. The [[Xbox LIVE#Gamer score|Achievements]] show the story mode will be divided into nine main levels, which gives some information about the game's length and an indistinct view of the story arc. Recent promotional items have had a strong memorial feeling to them, hinting at the demise of Master Chief, though strictly through speculative [[circumstantial evidence]].<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.gamestooge.com/2007/08/03/the-death-of-master-chief-in-halo-3/| authorlink = Falcon, Jonah| title= The Death of Master Chief in Halo 3?| date = [[2007-08-03]]| publisher = [[2old2play.com]]}}</ref>

==Technology==
===Graphics===
[[Image:Halo 3 singleplayer.jpg|thumb|250px|Work-in-progress ''Halo 3'' screenshot of campaign mode originally captured for use in ''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''.]]
''Halo 3'' utilizes a proprietary, in-house [[Game engine|graphics engine]], often referred to as the "''Halo 3'' Engine".<ref name="igntrailer">{{cite web |url = http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/706/706251p1.html |title = E3 2k6: Halo 3 Trailer Impressions |accessdate = 2007-06-25 |author = Kathleen Sanders |date = [[2006-05-09]] |format = HTML |work = IGN E3 2006 Coverage |publisher = IGN.com |quote = ...rendered in real-time on the Xbox 360 using the current version of the Halo 3 engine.}}</ref> This engine builds upon the technologies of the ''Halo 2'' Engine (and previously the ''Halo'' Engine) and is re-optimized for the architecture of the Xbox 360.

As detailed on the [[Bungie Studios]] website, it will employ advanced graphics technologies such as [[High dynamic range rendering|High Dynamic Range]], global lighting, real-time reflections and [[depth of field]] effects within cutscenes.<ref>{{cite web | title =Bungie | url =http://www.bungie.net | accessdate =2007-06-29 }}</ref> Certain surfaces, including the Master Chief's visor (when visible) and the armor of a Ghost, will have real-time reflections (These were, however, not present within the Beta.). Most of the dynamic objects in the game will cast real-time shadows on themselves and the environment around them, including the game's plant life. ''Halo 3'' will use [[Normal mapping|normal]], [[Bump mapping|bump]], and [[parallax mapping]] to give surfaces more detail without dramatically increasing the number of polygons.

Bungie has also stated that the [[draw distance]] of the game will be in excess of {{mi to km|10}}. Sophisticated new atmospheric models are used in the game to replace the traditional [[skybox (video games)|skybox]],<ref>{{cite video | people = alextotherescue | year = 2007 | date = May 25 | title = Halo 3: Sky Testing Part 2 | url = http://youtube.com/watch?v=aFnbhQU0lcY | format = flash | publisher = Clan Hat Trick | accessdate = 2007-05-27}}</ref> allowing several layers of cloud and atmospheric cover, and even a pseudo "space" beyond that.

[[Water]] effects are also dramatically improved, as water can now reflect and refract images simultaneously. As well as being able to simulate effects such as waterfalls, water will visually flow around objects in its path and splash when players, vehicles, or other objects travel through it.

===Physics===
''Halo 3'', like ''[[Halo 2]]'', uses a version of the [[Havok (software)|Havok]] physics engine for much of its physics calculations<ref name="cid12545">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12545 |title = Bungie Weekly Update: 06/15/07 |accessdate = 2007-06-16 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |quote = ..and this isn’t a Havok physics issue, this is a bug with the Halo melee physics...}}</ref> <ref name="havokgames">{{cite web |url = http://www.havok.com/content/blogcategory/37/78/ |title = Havok - Upcoming Releases |accessdate = 2007-07-13 |author = Havok Inc |date = |format = HTML |publisher = Havok.com |quote = The following game titles on current and next-generation Xbox 360 and Playstation®3 platforms will be released utilizing Havok products [...] Halo 3}}</ref> (although parts of the physics, like melee, are done with custom code on top of the [[Game engine#Middleware|middleware]]).

A wide variety of objects are affected by physical interactions in ''Halo 3''. Crates, canisters, objective objects, dropped weapons, characters, bodies, vehicles, and some parts of the world geometry all interact with each other and the world around them in believable physical ways. Trajectories of thrown objects are also affected by the gravity lifts in the game (including the "Mancannon").

Some of the foliage in the game is physically reactive; it not only moves in the simulated wind, but actually reacts to the player's (or other creatures) presence and bullet fire, as well as explosions. Some flora in the game will also be destroyed after receiving enough damage.

===Audio===
As with all titles on the [[Xbox 360]], ''Halo 3'' will fully support [[Surround sound#5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)|5.1 surround sound]] audio. In the game, there will be over 50,000 pieces of audio, with nearly 40,000 of those being NPC dialogue.<ref name="edge179" /> This is many more than in either of the preceding ''Halo'' titles; ''[[Halo 2]]'' had over 15,000 pieces of dialogue. The AI controlling this dialogue is designed to ensure the exchanges flow naturally and convincingly.

Separate recordings have been made for nearby and distant gunfire to make for a more believable sound experience. Distant gunfire sounds, which may first seem like prerecorded ambient sound, may often be the result of an actual firefight happening somewhere in the game. [[Marty O'Donnell]] is again composing the original score. Some pieces of the game's music are produced with a much larger real orchestra than anything in the prior two games. For example, the music for the announcement trailer was recorded with a 60-piece orchestra and a 24-piece [[choir]].<ref name="announcement" /> Voice actors returning to reprise their roles in ''Halo 3'' include: [[Jen Taylor]] as Cortana and [[Steve Downes]] as the voice of Master Chief. Actress [[Julie Benz]], however, is not voicing Miranda Keyes for ''Halo 3''.<ref name="mirandakeyes">{{cite web |url = http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7B586AE81D-35CC-4DE1-AAD8-920B33FDDDFC%7D |title = Dexter's No. 1 Gal — Julie Benz |accessdate = 2007-04-28 |author = Matt Webb Mitovich |date = [[2006-12-15]] |format = HTML |publisher = TVGuide.com |quote = Benz: You know what? I am actually not a part of Halo 3. }}</ref>

==Versions==
[[Image:Halo 3 front-1-.jpg|175px|thumb|''Halo 3 Collector's Edition'' cover.]]
[[Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg|175px|thumb||left|''Halo 3 Legendary Edition'' box and helmet.]]

There will be three different versions of ''Halo 3'' for retail sale: the Standard Edition, which contains the game disc and a manual; the Collector's Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive Xbox 360 bonus disc with several featurettes, and Beastiarum, which is a "hard cover, bound collection of information and art covering the species, cultures and civilizations of ''Halo 3''." according to Bungie; and the Legendary Edition, which contains the game disc, manual, interactive bonus disc, Beastiarum, Legendary DVD containing special content exclusive to the Legendary Edition, and a scale replica of the Master Chief's Helmet as a case for the three discs.<ref name="versions">{{cite web |url = http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531 |title = Three Versions of Halo 3 |accessdate = 2007-06-08 |author = Frank O'Connor (Frankie) |date = [[2007-06-08]] |format = HTML |publisher = Bungie.net |archiveurl = http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=130 |archivedate = 2007-06-09}}</ref>

{|class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto;"
!valign="right"| Features
!Standard
!Collector's
!Legendary
|-
|Price ([[United States dollar|USD]])
|$59.99
|$69.99
|$129.99
|-
|Price ([[British Pound Sterling|GBP]])
|£39.99
|£44.99
|£69.99
|-
|Price ([[Singapore Dollar|SGD]])
|$69.90
|$79.90
|N.A.
|-
|Game Disc & Manual
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Interactive Xbox 360 Disc
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Beastiarum
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (book)
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes (DVD)
|-
|Legendary DVD
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|Master Chief Helmet Replica
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ffdddd" | No
|style="background: #ddffdd" | Yes
|-
|}

==Marketing==
[[Image:GAME FUEL version of Mt. Dew.jpg|thumb|100px|Mountain Dew Game Fuel.]]
{{main|Marketing for Halo 3}}
Various marketing techniques have been employed in promoting the release of ''Halo 3''. This has included various trailers of the game; real-time [[cinematic]]s, recorded [[gameplay]] sequences, pre-rendered [[Computer-generated imagery|CGI]] and even [[live action]] film. Throughout the course of development several "developer documentaries" were released, which explain the processes behind creating parts of the game. A large scale multiplayer Beta test was played on Xbox Live with many members of the public being able to take part and experience the game for themselves. Beginning in June 2007, [[Iris (game)|''Iris'']], an [[alternate reality game]], began on the internet, designed to create hype for the game while involving players in slowing revealing some background information for the game.

In addition to high profile events, Bungie often talked about the game in its Weekly Update, occasionally releasing media of the game on their site. Numerous interviews with Bungie staff have been conducted by many gaming press establishments, covering a vast range of subjects. Magazines and journals also occasionally ran stories revealing new information. [[Pepsi-Cola]] have announced a new line of soft drink, a variant of [[Mountain Dew]] named [[Marketing for Halo 3#Mountain Dew Game Fuel|Game Fuel]]. The packaging reflects ''Halo 3'', sporting images of [[Master Chief (Halo)|Master Chief]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/809/809612p1.html |title=Halo 3 Box Arrives at IGN Offices |accessdate=2007-08-22 |publisher=IGN }}</ref> As ''Halo 3'' draws nearer to completion and release the marketing drive is set to increase. Much of the advertising to date has focused on appealing to the general public, rather than just hardcore fans of the game. Microsoft announced on [[August 9]], [[2007]], that [[pre-order]]s for ''Halo 3'' had exceeded one million in North America.<ref>{{cite news | url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20196977/| title=‘Halo 3’ breaks pre-order record | publisher=msnbc.com |date=[[2007-08-09]] | accessdate=2007-08-19}}</ref> However, has not yet equalled ''Halo 2''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s record-setting 1.5 million pre-orders.<ref>{{cite news | title=Halo 3 Passes 1M Pre-Orders|publisher=[[1UP.com]]|date=[[2007-08-09]]|first=Mark |last=Whiting|accessdate=2007-08-14 |url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3161856}}</ref> Some [[7-Eleven]] stores have recently begun advertising ''Halo 3'' and will be selling copies of the game.<ref>{{cite web| url=http://www.xbox360rally.com/reserve-halo-3-at-7-11-today/ |title=Reserve Halo 3 at 7-11 TODAY! |accessdate=2007-08-22 |date=[[2007-08-06]] |publisher=Xbox 360 Rally}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Iris (game)|''Iris'' (game)]]
*''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]''
*''[[Halo 2]]''
*[[Halo universe]]
*[[Bungie Studios]]
*[[Microsoft Game Studios]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.halo3.com Official site]
*[http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Halo3/default.aspx Official ''Halo 3'' site at Bungie.net]
*[http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/h/halo3/ ''Halo 3'' at Xbox.com]
*[http://www.halo3countdown.com ''Halo 3'' Countdown]
*[[Wikia:Halo:Halo 3|''Halo 3'' article at Halopedia]]
*[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]

{{Halo series}}
{{Bungie Studios}}

[[Category:2007 video games]]
[[Category:Video game sequels]]
[[Category:Xbox 360 games]]
[[Category:Xbox 360-only games]]
[[Category:Halo games]]
[[Category:Cooperative video games]]

[[es:Halo 3]]
[[fr:Halo 3]]
[[it:Halo 3]]
[[nl:Halo 3]]
[[ja:Halo 3]]
[[no:Halo 3]]
[[pl:Halo 3]]
[[fi:Halo 3]]
[[sv:Halo 3]]

Talk:Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:27:51Z

Duff man2007: /* Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay */

Talk:Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:27:26Z

Duff man2007: /* Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay */

{{talkheader}}
{{HaloWikiProject|class=B}}
{{cvgproj|class=B|importance=mid|small=yes}}
{{Archive box|
*[[/Archive 1|1: July — November 2006]]
*[[/Archive 2|2: November — December 2006]]
*[[/Archive 3|3: December 2006 — January 2007]]
*[[/Archive 4|4: January 2007 - April 2007]]
*[[/Archive 5|5: April 2007 - June 2007]]}}

''Why isnt it for pc'''''Bold text''' —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.224.191.90|74.224.191.90]] ([[User talk:74.224.191.90|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Forerunners? ==

has anyone noticed that in the game, the forerunners, thoguh not specifically described, seem to have been some type of human race?

got info from listening to the monitor in halo 1, and reading halo: the flood and halo:ghosts of onyx. tidbits of dialogue and documents seem to imply tht the forrunners may have been human
[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
::The discussion page is only for topics pertaining to the article itself, not the game. If you want to speculate, go find a relevant message board. [[User:Amalga|Amalga]] —The preceding {{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} | | comment was }} [[Wikipedia:Signatures|signed but undated]]{{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} | | | comment was added at {{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} (UTC{{{Zone|{{{3|{{{2|}}}}}}}}}) }}. 

:::i was hoping sm1 would know if they have released any info on if the forerunners will make an appearence in halo 3. didnt make that clear. sry. [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
::::In regards to information about the storyline, Bungie's been pretty mum about the in-depth details. Whether or not the Forerunners will appear in Halo 3 is not a storyline detail they'd want to reveal before the game comes out, so no. No information has been released. [[User:Amalga|Amalga]] 04:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::According to the Halo ARG "Iris", the Forerunners were not human. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.167.2.89|67.167.2.89]] ([[User talk:67.167.2.89|talk]]) 02:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

and where did u get that information? a link would be nice. cuz i played the iris game and it said nothing about being or not being human [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== '''Gameplay revisions''' ==

Consider revisign the Gameplay section, most of it seems extremely useless to the article, much of the information if very obvious and present in almost any game.

I Agree, the grammar and puncuation is poor. There are uneccessary commas all over the place.

It also it states that the game follows The Master Chief, with no mention of the Arbiter.

It also contains opinion - when mentioning the Multiplayer element of the game "... and is the primary reason for the series' enormous success." The games Halo:CE and Halo 2 were hugely successful despite the multiplayer element.

English is also poor eg when describing it as a first person shooter it states that the game "Largely builds off of previous renditions of the franchise..." Surely this should read "Largely builds on.." or "Largely builds upon..."

That is just a few examples.

[[User:63.174.7.252|63.174.7.252]] 11:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

these have been fixed, courtesy of yours truly[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

==Just Wondering==
You do realize that Truth isn't the last Prophet, right?

:yeah but hes the one in power right now, so we don't really care about the rest of his race.[[User:157.174.221.167|157.174.221.167]] 20:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

True, but it matters on what you define as 'the prophets'. yes, theres more prophets or people that look like him. But the proftet of truth's kind may not be called prophets, and might be called somethiung different.--[[User:Leemyster|leemyster]] 13:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Campain Choice ==

There is a rumor going around Halo 3 forums that you can choose who you can play as, Meaning you either play as the Arbiter or the Master Chief, your choice.
[http://www.halo3forum.com/halo-3-general-discussion/148071-discovery-about-co-op-in-h3-from-the-trailer-2.html#post2617394 Link to rumor]

At this stage there is no ''confirmation''. When Bungie says whether the Arbiter is playable or not we can add it, until then there's no need to mention it. I personally think he will be available as a coop character, but that's just my opinion and it shouldn't be added to the article (my opinion that is). [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 09:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Huh. Looks like the latest issue of EGM says that the Arbiter ''is'' playable in Halo 3's campaign. Whaddya know. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 16:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
:Since I am at work and cant get onto the EGM page can you tell me what date they are putting it on the shelves?[[User:Xenocide321|Xenocide321]] 19:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think its for sure but since the arbiter is playing along side the Master Cheif vertially the entire game there would be no purpose in having 2 different campain's and the fact that the arbiter is a co-op player might enhance this thought. Im not posative just a guess.

Campain Choice has been confirmed [http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack| Bungie news]

No it hasn't. However, the Arbiter is available in co-op. Also, your link is broken.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Extra grenade? ==

In the E3 2007 trailer; at 0:50 (50 seconds) there is a 1st person view of MC killing a brute with a battle rifle and if you look at his grenades he has 4 types. It's '''not''' equipment (like a shield drainer or bubble shield) because that is displayed under the grenades. Is it known what it is or hasn't Bungie said anything? [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 04:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[[:Image:Screenshoth3e307.png]]

Currenty it's unknown... Hackers found an Agility powerup or piece of equipment, in the beta code, and its speculated that this is it. [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 15:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

:Ok thanks, and at the moment that screenshot needs to be put in an article or it will be deleted (see [[WP:FU]]), sorry to be such a copyright-nut. [[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 01:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

In the next months EGM mag there is a ton of new tHalo 3 info,the 4th grenade is the Flare, a smoke grenade of sorts. There are more new weapons shown too! Gravity Hammer - a shockwave-generating device that's used for close-range attacks and vehicle disruptions. The Mauler - a dual-wield shotgun.[[User:valo_sweet_666|valo_sweet_666]]

:The Flare is a new piece of equipment, similar to the Portable Grav Lift, Power Drainer, and Bubble Shield available in the multiplayer beta. Even in EGM, the fourth grenade remains more of a rumor than anything. "We saw hints of a fourth grenade type, though it never actually appeared in action. Bungie won't give any details on this possible addition--or whether it will even be included in the final game." [[User:Brent Butler|Brent Butler]] [[Special:Contributions/Brent Butler|contribs]][[User talk:Brent Butler|talk]] 16:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

it has been confirmed 2 days ago by bungie that the 4th grenade is the fire grenade. heres link http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12699

== EGM Leak ==

Should that be included? It was leaked on the GameFAQS board and there were quite a few pictures...[[User:Argias|Argias]] 01:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Where is this leak? [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 01:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

On the Halo 3 board on GameFAQS. Just ask them for the stuff and they'll post it. I can't, as I was recently banned.

Link: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=926632&topic=36863163 No pics though... [[User:Argias|Argias]] 04:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oeaFIrBz2vA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9XHxwI_dqEU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MrG93-6AbtI

== ONLINE CO-OP ==

Following reports earlier in the month that online co-operative gameplay was on the verge of not making it in Halo 3, Bungie has today confirmed that the four player Online Co-Op is now confirmed! [[User:Valo sweet 666|Valo sweet 666]] 04:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

They've announced that Player One will play as Master Chief. Player Two will be the Arbiter. Players Three and Four will be elite soldiers. All three will have identical abilities, aside from the starting weapon which will be carbines for the elites instead of the battle rifle which Master Chief will use. Here are some details about those characters directly from Bungie.net:

PLAYER 3 (Sangheili)

Name: N’tho ‘Sraom
Affiliation: Fleet of Retribution/Special Warfare Group/Special Operations
History: N’tho ‘Sraom is the youngest member of his Special Operations unit and is one of a growing number of human sympathizers amongst the Sangheili youth. He is a fairly typical young male adult Sangheili—he began compulsory military service at the end of adolescence, and remains unmarried with no close, non-familial relationships outside of his martial order. N’tho Sraom refused to stand idly by while the Prophets replaced Sangheili units with Jiralhanae packs, and now bears deep resentment toward those Sangheili politicians who landed his kind in their current predicament.

Although N’tho ‘Sraom’s romanticized nationalism is emblematic of all Sangheili, he has developed a healthy respect for humanity—not for their physical abilities or martial prowess, but for their audacity and resolve.

PLAYER 4 (Sangheili)

Name: Usze ‘Taham
Affiliation: Fleet of Retribution/Special Warfare Group/Fleet Security
History: Although Usze ‘Taham was born into a respected merchant family he was fathered by Toha ‘Sumai—one of the preeminent swordfighters of this age. Usze graduated with honors from the top War College in the Iruiru region of Yermo, Sanghelios (a distinction he shares with Rtas 'Vadum). Shortly after receiving his first post within the Covenant Navy he was offered a place on the Prophets’ Honor Guard but he declined citing “lack of practical experience”. In truth, he had no desire to be part of a largely ceremonial unit, and at the end of his third combat tour, Usze ‘Taham again refused the post—even though his superiors warned him such behavior could be misinterpreted as apostasy.

Since that time Usze has evaded countless punitive actions, at least two assassination attempts, and served with distinction for two additional tours before the Schism. Following the dissolution of the Covenant, he was approached by the Ascetics to become one of their liaisons within the Navy.
[[User:Hammet1982|Hammet1982]] 21:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

:If a source is needed, this was stated in the August 1st Bungie podcast. [[User:64.230.63.54|64.230.63.54]] 07:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

:: '''''Done''''', added to the article with a citation to the announcement about it on b.net [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

== typo fix ==
{{tl|editprotected}} Gameplay section, third paragraph, first sentence, "were it is most useful" should read "where it is most useful"
:done. [[User:Od Mishehu|Od]] [[User talk:Od Mishehu|Mishehu]] 07:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

== New Information Via EGM Magazine (08/07) ==

=== New Weapons ===

* Mauler- Brute shotgun. Dual-wield.

=== New Equipment ===

* Regenerator- Regenerates shields.
* Flare- Blinds all that view the flash.
* Radar Jammer- Creates fake blips on enemy motion detectors.

is the equipment like bubble-sheild and trip mine available in camapign?[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 13:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

=== New Vehicles ===

* Hornet- Human aerial vehicle. Appears to have vertical takeoff and landing.
* Prowler- Brute vehicle like the Elite Specter.
* Warthog Personel Carrier- Human Warthog with room for soldiers in the back "cab".
* Elephant- Large vehicle that looks like a [[Sandcrawler]]. Moves very slow and is protected by mounted turrets. Houses a spawn point, flag spawn, and flag return.

:: Thats great anonymous user. But unless you fix us up a nice citation using [[Template:Cite_journal]] or [[Template:Citation]], we can't use the info. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

:::I dont have the link from the article because i cant get it at work, but I too have seen this information on the egm.1up.com site. [[User:Xenocide321|Xenocide321]] 18:30, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== More magazine tidbits (Edge 179) ==

Over today, I'll be adding a few new tidbits about Halo 3 to the article from the latest [[Edge (magazine)|Edge]] magazine in the UK. I'll also be adding full cites to bits I add as well, just to make it proper. Please don't worry about this being a leak, or false information. I have the magazine right in front of me, and assuming EDGE themselves didn't get it wrong, it is all correct.

One tidbit that i've just added; there are '''53,595''' pieces of audio in Halo 3, of which '''39,368''' are of NPC dialogue. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

== Million Preorders ==

the news hitting the intertubes today is that there have already been one million copies sold, over a month before release. is this notable enough to put in the article? is it a record of any kind? -anon

:I think so, a mention in the lead section should do saying it's one of the most anticipated games with more than 1 million copies pre-ordered, with a source of course. Speaking of which, I had to go searching to pre-order my legendary edition, they're sold out at so many places now. I had to drive ~30km to find a store that wasn't sold out! (it's a long way considering how many stores there are near me). [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I only preordered the cheapest version of the game... saving the bigs bucks for the GTA4 special edition... Anyway, According to the article now this is or is not a new record for preorders. Someone added a new source showing higher preorders for halo 2. I think it has something to do with how quickly they got to 1 million preorders... I'll be looking for a source, and I'm betting I'll be able to find a source that states 2 Million or more pre-orders for this game by the time the launch finally hits. -anon

== HALO 3 PROMOTION!!! ==

Jesus Christ, scroll down to the bottom. lots of new info regardign the promotion for the game. [[User:Brownstone999|Brownstone999]] 18:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

== FLAMETHROWER!!!! ==

[http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html] You have to put this in its so sweet!!

Can you find another source to confirm this information by? [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 16:40, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

has been confirmed by bungie [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 03:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

== Legendary Edition image ==

I found a free image of the legendary edition ([[:Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg]]) though I'm not sure where to add it to the article, I think that the "Different versions" section would have too much white space if I were to add it there. Any suggestions, or just go ahead if you have a good idea. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 03:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

== Note ==

It states in weapons that you cannot hide a seconday weapon, however the energy sword in the beta would deactivate after being switched, allowing you to hide it. [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 16:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

:However, it still visibly appeared on the players leg. So its not invisible when you switch like it was in previous games. Thats the point of the sentence in the article. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 09:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== Halo 3 Epsilon and new flame weapons ==

I recommend you mention the halo 3 epsilon that is currently active. Bungie has yet to confirm this epsilon but many trustworthy websites have written about it and I have personally seen someone playing the halo 3 epsilon.
Links to some websites:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812230p1.html
http://kotaku.com/gaming/soon/so-whats-halo-3-epsilon-288442.php
http://kotaku.com/gaming/and-nothing-but-the-truth/the-truth-behind-halo-3-epsilon-288565.php
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EElyluyuuASXUMvxWV.php

Regarding the flamethrower and firebomb, these were confirmed by IGN and included an interview with a Bungie employee. "O'Connor confirmed that the gadget (bubble shield) will provide safe haven from fire."It will wash over the shield. It will actually burn on the surface of the shield."

:The Epsilon is just another stage of internal testing. As the article stands theres no real place for it. However, if there was a "development" section, it could be mentioned there. Oh, and firebomb and flamethrower have been added now. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 09:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== More info on Meta-Game scoring ==

I don't remember where I read it (new EGM I think, but I don't have a copy) but they have released how the meta-game scoring will go. It will be based on things like head-shots, using skulls (which have negative effects), killing mutliple enemies at once, etc. It will essentially work like the stat baords in multiplayer games, but with a point value associated with the different stats and medals as well as some Single-Player only things like using skulls. If anyone has the data on this, I think it would be nice to add to the info for the meta-game since the wording right now is a little weak.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 15:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

: Yes. This is one of the things mentioned in Edge 179 that I meant to update the article with. I don't know about the "killing multiple enemies at once" one, but there are still things that could be added. I'll have a look... [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:24, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::'''Done:''' Well mostly. I reworded most of it, and added info about headshots and speed of progression. Also noting the competitive aspect it introduces to co-op. Oh, plus a quote! [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 15:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

== Post-release cleanup and organization ==

(Just want to get this out of the way) ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]'' and ''[[Halo 2]]'' are both [[WP:FA|featured articles]], so ideally I would like this to be as well. Obviously immediately after it's released there won't be enough critical reception (and face it, we'll all be too busy playing the damn game), however I would like to suggest that shortly before the release we shunt a copy of this page to a subpage, perhaps [[/prerelease]] or whatever; that way, we can trash the main page and reorganize it, while still having a copy in the back (to grab details about development, rumors and prerelease info that will be extremely helpful upon release.) Anyone have any objections to this/improvements? [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] <nowiki>(</nowiki>[[User talk:David Fuchs|talk]]<nowiki>)</nowiki> 22:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think that would be an excellent way to help develop and refine the article. And I completely agree with you on getting this to FA since CE and 2 are FAs. It'll take time, but all good things do. [[User:Cliff smith|Cliff smith]] 23:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

::I also agree, I was wondering myself what we should do with the current article but that sounds like an excellent idea. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:::Yeah. Upon release, it will need a significant rewrite. Because a lot of the stuff is listed chronologically and with lots of "will introduce" "was revealed on" etc. Putting a copy of the article on a subpage does seem like a good reference point for developing an FA worthy article. We'll have to decide exactly what needs to be said in regards to things that are covered in the article now, but aren't covered in counter-part on Halo and Halo 2 pages. Because thinks like the current "technology" or "features" (saved films) section, aren't covered at all in many other game articles. But, perhaps they should be?
:::The article as it stands, is still pretty good I would say. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Yeah, there is nothing about the technology behind the games in the other articles, but also in terms of release marketing and reception- that ''killed'' me when I had to go digging for it at FAC. [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] <nowiki>(</nowiki>[[User talk:David Fuchs|talk]]<nowiki>)</nowiki> 15:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::Um, whats FAC? [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 15:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::::[[WP:FAC]] = Featured article candidates, but it's often referred to as the process of "putting an article through FAC" as in nominating and responding to the discussion. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::: Ah, thought it might be. Just had to check. Thanks [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

==Vague, POV wording here==
I don't like how the following passage was worded. No citation is given and we are not even told which 2 weapons the author found to be the only useful ones in the original Halo. For one, I used every weapon in Halo, and in multi-player I used the Sniper-Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun frequently like many players. Since this ungrounded bias reads like a POV sales pitch for the new game, I'd like to have this sentence rewritten please:

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are ''''famously'' limited only two choices of weapons in Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overwhelmingly the best overall choice for whatever type of situation they may encounter.
--[[User:Charizardpal|Charizardpal]] 20:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

: I wrote that. I was trying to explain the bit about "the balance of weapons..has been altered." Perhaps it seems a little out of context now. It orgininally did say at the end "(such as the M6D in the first Halo)" however someonce decided that wasn't needed and removed it. It still holds true, I feel. If you didn't know what was coming. You'd choose an M6D and the most powerful weapon you could find.
:Now, probably, it does need a rewrite. Though I don't know what could be said. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

::"Only two weapons at any one time" might fit better? [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

== New Toy ==

Speaking of new toys, apparantly Wired magazine confirms a new weapon. Wasn't sure where to post this, but the URL is here...

http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/15-09/ff_halo?currentPage=4

And apparantly describes another turret-type weapon that's covenant based called the Plasma Turret. Does someone want to put this where it needs to go?

-Uwasa

:This is simply a redesign of the existing portable plasma turret. i.e. the one without the shield on the front. Whats new is that it is detachable like the human turret, and the weapon looks more impressive to reflect its powerful nature. [[User:157.174.221.167|157.174.221.167]] 19:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

::Just wanted to add that this turret can be seen in action in the HALO 3 videos form this years PAX. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] ([[User talk:157.174.221.168|talk]]) 20:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 

I was surfing the GameStop website, when I came accross a few more limited editions of another very cool, but some-what pointless Halo 3 extras. Im sure you all know about the SPARTAN and Elite controlers, and the Halo 3 wireless head-set. The 2 new items are the MadCatz Xbox 360 Halo 3 Faceplate/Skin Pack, and the SPNKr Missle cass. Yea that's right, a SPNKr missle cass (the missle ammo pick-ups from the games). From the picture, it looks like it can hold one controller and a wired-headset (or, maybe 2 controllers) and it looks like it has room for 5 CDs. The missle cass is only available online, so dont go to the store looking for one.

The links for the 2 new extras, respectively

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802715

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802720

: - that missle case thingy is pretty cool, very original halo memorabeila —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|22:51:47, August 19, 2007 (UTC)}}} 

[[User:Gundam94|Gundam94]] 17:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== Female Voice ==

I know this feature has been confirmed by Bungie, but has anyone seen anything about when you ever hear it? Those that are familiar with Halo know that the characters voice is never really used in multi. Its just not very clear in the article why having a female voice option matters. The way its written sounds like you speak through character voices instead of just using the xbox live headset and may be misleading to those unfamiliar with the game.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 18:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Its there for when the player dies, you will hear a female scream istead of male. .[[User:Valo sweet 666|Valo sweet 666]] 17 August 2007 (UTC)

:I would have thought it would be the voice that says "double kill" or "flag taken" etc. That would make a more noticable difference that would probably be worth mentioning in a weekly update but then again I'm just speculating. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 03:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

It is when you hear the player die in MultiPlayer. You will never hear it during the campaign, and it does not change the voice of the announcer.--Tyguy92 17:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think its the 'voice mask' that is going to be female or male. they did this because of the increasing amount of female gamers, so it wouldnt be sexist that the only voice mask you could get would be one of a male voice. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Leemyster|Leemyster]] ([[User talk:Leemyster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Leemyster|contribs]]) 13:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 

The female voice that bungie has added will be used when your character is meleed, in halo 2 your character would "grunt" so to speak. now, you can change that grunt to a shriek, it does not change your voice masking, the voice of the announcer, or any other game unrelated aspects, its simply an aesthetic change. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.126.243.32|70.126.243.32]] ([[User talk:70.126.243.32|talk]]) 02:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

== IGN Q&A with Bungie ==

I recently added a quote from Tyson Green of Bungie Studios from a Q/A session at IGN.com. The rest of the interview may have some info that could verify and/or supplement what's already here. [[User:Cliff smith|Cliff smith]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

== Bubble Shield Issue ==

Correct me if I'm worng but as I remember from the Beta, from within the bubble shield you can still fire outwards. If I'm completely wrong, just disregard this. —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|13:08, August 23, 2007 (UTC)}}} 

:No, you can't, it prevents fire both ways. When the beta was available I would approach a bubble and throw a grenade inside. It contains the explosion and pretty much guarantees a kill if there's anyone inside it. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 13:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

::The new stationary shield has a slit you can fire through though. I believe it was confirmed in the EGM issue, but I could be wrong.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

== NEW HALO 3 BLOW OUT ON IGN.COM!!! ==

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/815/815041p1.html

wow, there is so much info we can add on this article. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 21:12, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Quite, I read all the way through it, but not as much as one would think. A case of it says alot without telling us much. There is some useful info there, just alotta waffle around it.[[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 20:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

you phail, there is plenty of info to add due to that link [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:43, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Not that I see. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 05:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks like mostly the same stuff to me [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 02:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC) [[User:The Shroud]]

== Listing ==
For the weapons, maps, equipment, etc., you guys should start listing the confirmed ones and put them in a list instead of the little article that only summerizes a couple of tidbits of information. It's only a month away from Sept. 25 and Bungie and alot of other websites (IGN, 1up, etc.) have confirmed a bunch of other stuff. We should start a list soon. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|22:07, August 24, 2007 (UTC)}}} 
:Wikipedia is not a list. We already had that, but it was eliminated because it was unencyclopedic. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 05:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

::And it was huge. the olde "confirmed elements" section practically took over the whole article. And there are plenty of other sites that will list every weapon and vehicle and map etc. Wikipedia doesn't need to [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== PC Version ==

Please don't attack me for asking this (as I'm afraid Xbox fans will do) but what is the current possibility of a PC version being released or done? They have released a PC version for both the original and Halo 2, are they planning to do the same with Halo 3? Just wondering if anyone knew anything about it and therefore it could be added to the article. [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 07:52, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

:There hasn't been any word of a Halo 3 PC as far as I know, but as you said, the previous 2 had PC versions released later so it's likely there will be some day. There is no confirmation by Bungie or Microsoft though so it can't be added to the article. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 08:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

::Again if the last 2 were released you can expect the same of this one. BUT, the first one wasn't released until just prior to xbox Halo 2 coming out, and Halo2 PC is just now coming out. I wouldn't just hold out for the PC version if I were you because it will be a while, and it'll be pretty outdated by then for PC standards.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

:Seems I'll have to wait for it on the PC, though. [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 20:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Yes, but likely not to long, from what i hear. Deal with it and find a friend with a 360 until it comes out...
I want it for PC too [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 00:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

See this article http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170224&skip=yes [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 00:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

:It will be a few years before the PC version comes out. MS isn't that dumb since this is one of their biggest system sellers.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, a PC version is not being made as of yet. Bungie have already said they want to get the 360 version out before even considering it. But, since the other two were, you can be fairly certain it will eventually come to PC (ahem, Vista). [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== in EGM's latest issue, they gave Halo's AI the "best AI" on the showroom floor ==

This should be included when talking about the AI in the game. Keep in mind that EGM only does console stuff though. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.117.224.11|71.117.224.11]] ([[User talk:71.117.224.11|talk]]) 01:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Burning wood? ==

I saw a vid where the wooden pallets burned, but it cut off early so i don't know [[User:The Shroud]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] ([[User talk:74.245.38.202|talk]]) 02:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 

What vid? do you have a link? [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 17:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

== Gold ==

What does 'gone gold' actually mean in terms of video games? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 16:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC) 

:Gone gold generally means that it it is certidied Golden master, e.g. it's ready for production then shipment. Gold is he last thing a game is certified before it is released to the people that make all those DVDs, who then pass it on to the store lines and such. [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 17:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

::Just a note to clarify, "gone gold" has nothing to do with sales numbers like it does in the music industry. The master copies of optical discs were traditionally (and sometimes still are) gold colored due to the material they were made from and with no real marketing purpose.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== 1up's daily coverage ==

Today there is supposed to be an update but when i went to the website, it was still locked and the date said 9/03/07. Anyone know what time they unlock those? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 14:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC) 
:Check again. It's there now.--[[User:Roeas|Roeas]] 00:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Canadian Money ==

hey can you guys put the prices of the halo 3 game version in Canadian too. If you do thanks. :)[[User:68.145.77.173|68.145.77.173]] 23:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Legendary only available in ... ==

I removed the text "The legendary edition is currently only available in North America and Brazil." because it's unsourced and not true. Why Brazil & not UK? Besides, I live in Australia and have pre-ordered the Legendary without any problems. If there's a source listing the places that the Legendary Edition is available, by all means add the info, but make sure it's reliable. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Havok Engine ==

In the box in the top right corner of the page, where it says which Game Engine is used, shouldn't the Havok Engine be listed as well as the Halo Engine, since Havok is used for physics calculation?--[[User:Roeas|Roeas]] 00:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I'm not sure, on some articles it states the game engine they use, including all the various physics engines, on others it doesn't. I don't see why you can't put it there.[[User:The Lord Of The Crayons|The Lord Of The Crayons]] 00:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Sony, Stay Off Wikipedia ==

Honestly, [http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/09/04/sony-tries-to-secretly-wiki-diss-halo-3-and-fails/ doesn’t Sony have anything better to do?] Trying to edit the Halo 3 Wikipedia page? Didn’t they even know their ISP would be caught? Even if they attempted this from a home ISP, the rules in Wikipedia are fairly clear on speculative, source-less entries, much less weasel-worded opinions. Plus, Sony apparently hasn’t learned good grammar, since they capitalized after a comma.

Maybe Sony should be concentrating on its own software than trying to clumsily sling mud anonymously. [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 18:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sony must have gone crazy. Caught vandalizing rival product article. What an insult for themselves. Its already a hot news out there.--[[User:R.iqbal|R.iqbal]] 18:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I love Halo, but you you guys sound like idiots when you say "sony did this, sony did that." Did you ever stop to consider maybe it was just an employee there. Whether you'd like to beleive it or not, Sony is not stupid, and they did not get to the top of consumer electronics by making dumb marketing moves. If Sony wanted to discredit Halo, I'm sorry, but they would not change the wikipedia entry on it. What would that accomplish. Stop acting like victims, grow up, and think the situation through.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

...Are you serious? If they didn't want to be held accountable they should have done it from a different computer. It doesn't matter whether it was an employee or not, they still are held accountable due to it being done from their IP. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/153.90.68.64|153.90.68.64]] ([[User talk:153.90.68.64|talk]]) 02:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

:my dad works at bungie (his name is frank o'connor) and he gave me halo 3 for my birthday last year and Sony is wrong. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Goatsmoke|Goatsmoke]] ([[User talk:Goatsmoke|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Goatsmoke|contribs]]) 07:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

It is obviously done by some sony employee. But who cares, it's from sony so its done by sony. The mud have been spilled and its sony sony who is disgraced in the end. People are making fun of sony everywhere from game forums to news articles. I assume MS is loughing like hell seeing this news all over the place.--[[User:R.iqbal|R.iqbal]] 07:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::I'd like to request that this discussion ends. Unless it is being discussed as to enter this information in the article or not, this talk page is [[WP:FORUM|not a forum]] for discussion about the article's topic. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 08:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Heh. How is this unrelated to editing the Halo 3 article? (wink) [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 17:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Heck, this is one of the few points on the talk page directly relating to the editing of the article! [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 22:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Saying that "Sony is embarrassed seeing this news all over the place" is a complete exaggeration. Sure, a few people who read news on gaming sites may be laughing, but most regular gamers never heard of the story. I didn't hear about it until this discussion. It's not real news unless the AP or Reuters picks it up, otherwise, it's just a confirmed internet rumor that will be chuckled at by the few who read gaming news sites.(Excluding game reviews, these are more widely read.)--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 22:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it is all over the place. This is the internet after all and news like this travels like wildfire. The article from Vnunet has been linked on several forums I visit.[[User:Yasgur|Yasgur]] 03:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I also want to request that this discussion end. This page is [[WP:FORUM|not a forum]] to discuss why someone from a Sony-related IP edited [[Halo 3]]. This page is for discussing how to improve the article. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 04:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Bearing that thought in mind. I find that the little section concerning Sony 'vandalizing Wikipedia's article to not show neutrality in the subject in mind. <blockquote>For As of September 04, 2007 an internet technology and news site reported that a wikipedia user posted under the graphics section that Halo 3 would have graphics only marginally better than Halo 2. This news site determined that the user had posted from the Liverpool office of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE).[46] Undoubtedly, this was an attempt to downplay the upcoming release of the hotly anticipated title.
</blockquote>

I feel that last sentence or perhaps the whole article should be re-evaluated to seem more neutral then a POV of some halo fan's. Don't get me wrong I am a great fan of Halo but I don't think it seems proper to bash sony on Wikipedia and claim at the end Halo is Awesome. This is what I am getting when I read this article. [[User:24.226.195.58|24.226.195.58]] 13:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:A little off-topic but saying its a "hotly anticipated title" and stating that its rightfully hotly aniticipated are two different things. I don't think anyone would argue that it is very highly anticipated.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
::The preorder numbers (projected minimum $172M on first day), the Madame Tussounds wax figure, the hype, the commercials, etc - it's hotly anticipated. [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 04:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Considering that the PS3 is a failure, Sony seems to be getting increasingly desperate. What a shame. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.110.26.86|24.110.26.86]] ([[User talk:24.110.26.86|talk]]) 03:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 

yes, i agree. sony is scared witless of halo 3, b/c they know that it will knock them out when it comes out[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 11:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

== Different Editions Omission ==

There missing a difference between the editions. Both the Limited and the Legendary editions come with an "HD Calibration Disk". This was briefly noted on the bungie website. This is a Halo 3 themed disk that will help to Calibrate your HDTV to get the best picture.
[[User:69.158.17.235|69.158.17.235]] 01:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)Jason M - TO

:I could be wrong, but I beleive it is available to everyone with an Xbox Live Silver or Gold membership now. Do some research into it if you want, I'm sure the Bungie forum will be glad to help once they stop posting "phail". Sorry for the rant, but that forum is one of the most immature I've ever been in.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::As far as I know, that tool is on the "Interactive Xbox 360 Disc." So is with the limited and legendary versions. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Well regardless as to whether its on xbox live, it should be mentioned if it also comes on the disc. Since only like 50% (i think it was) of xbox owners are on live, it would be good info for them. Also, 4chans boards are by far and away more immature than Bungies.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== addition to weapons section ==

it should be noted under the weapons section that the covenant needler can no longer be dual wielded due to a significant power increase.

:Okay, go ahead and make the change. You don't need permission to add info to the entry, that's your right. If formatting of grammar is not right, someone will make the change for you until you learn.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::Well, by all means make the edit. But, we don't want to be "game guidey" describing all the changes to every single weapon in the game. The overall statement "with minor power and cosmetic changes" is fine I believe. The needler is still the needler and just has different power. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Why are the graphics not much better? ==
The graphics in this game are disappointing. They have a good replay/cutscene engine but the real gameplay engine looks only slightly better than Halo2.

Halo3
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/734/734817/img_4818511.html

Halo2
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/804/804393/img_4486727.html

Yes it is a fair comparison even if its the PC version of Halo2 because both are running in high resolution. Seems bungie went lazy on this one and didn't bother to spend the development time to improve the engine to the best of the systems abilities. Like Halo and Halo2, Halo3 is sure to have frame rate issues and even worse when in split screen.
[[User:Vietone|Vietone]] 13:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

have either of u guys seen the halo 3 single player thing? i mean, the graphics blew me away. if u say its not better than halo 2, i dont thuink u payed attantion. the betes werent that great, but there u go: BETA [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:(facepalm) Haven't you noticed by now that the graphics in multiplayer are not going to be as good as the ones in singleplayer? That's because they matter less in multiplayer than they do in singleplayer, which is where the real shininess is going to go. This: [/media/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Halo_3_online_co-op.jpg] is a far better example of Halo 3's graphics, and that itself may or may not be the final build. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] ([[User talk:Peptuck|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peptuck|contribs]]) 15:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

::If you look carefully, there are vast improvements. Halo 2 had visible polygons, whereas Halo 3's polygons are tiny. There weren't really framerate issues in Halo 1 or 2 unless you made a lot of blood on the ground. Though NTSC may differ from PAL-60 in this case. Still, I don't think there's anything bad about the graphics, sure Halo was never a game with amazing graphics but they aren't bad. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 08:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:Well, the action does (supposedly) take place in much larger areas. And there is more going on and more enemies on screen at once. So theres two reasons. Plus, i believe, a lot of the beauty of the game is in its subtlety. the bloom isn't overdone, the lighting it soft were it needs to be, things that are supposed to be natural look natural. textures convery the surface of an object without getting in your face. Oh, and PCs have FAR more RAM than the 360. So even in H2V, they can have higher res textures in some cases. :Plus, who said there would be framerate issues? All accounts so far point to a very stable framerate in Halo 3. While H1 and H2 had some framerate issues, i've seen games with far worse issues in that regard. Oh, and Halo 3 had a much longer "polish" period at the end of development than halo 2, and certainly longer than H1. All signs seem good.
:Besides, the talk page is for the article, until we have some proper commentary (ie reviews) about how much the graphics suck or not, theres no reason to talk about it. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I agree, this is an article talk page and we should be discussing the article, not the game. I got a bit sidetracked. Please let's keep it on-topic from now. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::To keep on topic about the article, we should really remove that pic of High Ground or at least mention that the screenshot is from the Beta and NOT the final build and thus not representative of the actual in-game graphics. Bungie has said many times that many graphical settings were turned down or off for the beta. For instance, if someone wishes to dig through their site, they said that there was absolutely not Anti-aliasing in the Beta, and turning that on will help greatly. The purpose of the Beta was to test the gameplay and the online functions, not the graphics engine.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

==Xbox 360 Achievements==
Hi, I wanted to add a link to a list of the Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3 in the External Links section on the Halo 3 page, but the page is protected. I was going to add this link: *[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]. Can someone help me with this? --[[User:UaneReade|UaneReade]] 14:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:Wikipedia generally frowns on Lists and info that is considered [[fancruft]] or game-guide like material instead of the type of stuff you'd find in an encyclopedia.(I always forget to sign)[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 14:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Picture ==

For the 2 beta pictures, can you at least mention it's from the beta, you did good on the other picture mentiong it's a work in progress, you might as well mention that the beta pics are from the beta, now seeing that was like 6 months ago. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.38.203.115|72.38.203.115]] ([[User talk:72.38.203.115|talk]]) 02:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 
:It doesn't really matter, does it?--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 02:33, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

yes, it does. since it is a beta or work-in-progress still, it needs to ber known that it is not the final product[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 11:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:If you feel so strongly about it, you can add it in yourself--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 19:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

== Old Maps ==
Will their be any multiplayer maps from Halo 1 or Halo 2 that will be in Halo 3 other than Last Resort (Zanzibar)? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 23:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 
:The game isn't out yet, so who knows. Also, the talk page is to discuss the article, not the game itself--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 01:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::Agreed with above. If you can phrase it in a way that is more encyclopedic and not so game-forum-esque, it could be added. Oh and to answer your question, Lockout has also been remade with a jungle theme and can be seen in the videos from PAX.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 14:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== RV please ==

I would rv the current verison myself but I'm an IP. I can't belvie no one noticed this.--[[User:71.170.106.104|71.170.106.104]] 02:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== in EGM's latest issue, they gave Halo's AI the "best AI" on the showroom floor ==

[[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 02:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
this topic was already here[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Auctions ==

idk if anyone noticed this, but there's a lot of confusion abt these 2 ebay auctions, u can check the halo.bungie.org site to find out the details, but i'm surprisd no1 posted about it yet.after checking it out, wat do u ppl think, real or not?[[http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=832934]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Discopete117|Discopete117]] ([[User talk:Discopete117|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Discopete117|contribs]]) 21:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Halo 3 is selling on Ebay, add this in ==

Halo 3 is selling on Ebay, add this in [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 23:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

i already did, look at auctions, i'v also got a link where people discuss it so just delete it[[User:Discopete117|Discopete117]] 00:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

No you didin't. THe word "ebay" or "auction" is not mentioned once. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 02:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:The part about this eBay auction is poorly formatted and place haphazardly in the middle of the article, if it is to stay, it needs to be fixed. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

::This is the exact text that was in the article. I am removing the text from the article temporarily until it can be cleaned up and a better location found for it within the text of the article:

"- ===Ebay Leek and kids getting banned for life===
- - - - - - THe game is selling on Ebay right now, and kids are also getting banned for life by playin halo 3 right now
- - - - -
- - - - - Source: http://news.filefront.com/halo-3-available-on-ebay/
- - - - -
- - - - - source: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=halo+3+ban"

[[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Look if you guys don't like it, then fix it yourself. But you can't remove it yourself and not fix it. So either fix it yourself, or don't mess with it [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 03:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==3RR==
Refering to the [[WP:3RR|three revert rule]], please use this discussion to determine the fate of the eBay leak portion of the article, rather than remove and re-add the content repeatedly. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Well, it can be reworded, as you said above--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 03:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
So? If you don't like it, then fix it. Don't remove it. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::So... I removed it, per [[WP:NOT#NEWS]]. And it will continue to be removed, this is not a news service nor is a forum to announce cruft like this. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Spigot your logic is flawed, if something is leeked onto the internet it does go on wikipedia. Try again [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::Only if said leak can be classified as a [[WP:RS|reliable source]].--[[User:Yeti Hunter|Yeti Hunter]] 04:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I did provide a source. Hell, just go to google news and type "halo 3 ebay" and you'll get results. Like I said, don't even attempt to think to remove this from the page, if you have trouble with the spelling and what not then fix it, don't just blatantly remove it though. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Thanks for not writing [[WP:Civil|civily]]. Please READ the wikilinks we have provided and you will see why it will not be included until it is confirmed and reported by a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

: Might be notable to note that 1) this does not deserve to be before all other sections of the article; 2) unless you provide a '''specific''' credible source, such information should not be added to Wikipedia; and 3) as according to the comment posted in the article, please '''do not''' repeatedly insert your snippet over and over again, until this is issue is resolved on the talk page. [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay ==

Full retail PAL version of the game leaked.

Right here, IGN.COM - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

If you argue with the notablitiy of IGN.com you are tremendiously un-informed [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay ==

Full retail PAL version of the game leaked.

Right here, IGN.COM - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

If you argue with the notablitiy of IGN.com you are tremoundously un-informed [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:26:58Z

Duff man2007: /* Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay */ new section

{{talkheader}}
{{HaloWikiProject|class=B}}
{{cvgproj|class=B|importance=mid|small=yes}}
{{Archive box|
*[[/Archive 1|1: July — November 2006]]
*[[/Archive 2|2: November — December 2006]]
*[[/Archive 3|3: December 2006 — January 2007]]
*[[/Archive 4|4: January 2007 - April 2007]]
*[[/Archive 5|5: April 2007 - June 2007]]}}

''Why isnt it for pc'''''Bold text''' —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.224.191.90|74.224.191.90]] ([[User talk:74.224.191.90|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Forerunners? ==

has anyone noticed that in the game, the forerunners, thoguh not specifically described, seem to have been some type of human race?

got info from listening to the monitor in halo 1, and reading halo: the flood and halo:ghosts of onyx. tidbits of dialogue and documents seem to imply tht the forrunners may have been human
[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
::The discussion page is only for topics pertaining to the article itself, not the game. If you want to speculate, go find a relevant message board. [[User:Amalga|Amalga]] —The preceding {{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} | | comment was }} [[Wikipedia:Signatures|signed but undated]]{{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} | | | comment was added at {{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} (UTC{{{Zone|{{{3|{{{2|}}}}}}}}}) }}. 

:::i was hoping sm1 would know if they have released any info on if the forerunners will make an appearence in halo 3. didnt make that clear. sry. [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
::::In regards to information about the storyline, Bungie's been pretty mum about the in-depth details. Whether or not the Forerunners will appear in Halo 3 is not a storyline detail they'd want to reveal before the game comes out, so no. No information has been released. [[User:Amalga|Amalga]] 04:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::According to the Halo ARG "Iris", the Forerunners were not human. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.167.2.89|67.167.2.89]] ([[User talk:67.167.2.89|talk]]) 02:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

and where did u get that information? a link would be nice. cuz i played the iris game and it said nothing about being or not being human [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== '''Gameplay revisions''' ==

Consider revisign the Gameplay section, most of it seems extremely useless to the article, much of the information if very obvious and present in almost any game.

I Agree, the grammar and puncuation is poor. There are uneccessary commas all over the place.

It also it states that the game follows The Master Chief, with no mention of the Arbiter.

It also contains opinion - when mentioning the Multiplayer element of the game "... and is the primary reason for the series' enormous success." The games Halo:CE and Halo 2 were hugely successful despite the multiplayer element.

English is also poor eg when describing it as a first person shooter it states that the game "Largely builds off of previous renditions of the franchise..." Surely this should read "Largely builds on.." or "Largely builds upon..."

That is just a few examples.

[[User:63.174.7.252|63.174.7.252]] 11:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

these have been fixed, courtesy of yours truly[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

==Just Wondering==
You do realize that Truth isn't the last Prophet, right?

:yeah but hes the one in power right now, so we don't really care about the rest of his race.[[User:157.174.221.167|157.174.221.167]] 20:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

True, but it matters on what you define as 'the prophets'. yes, theres more prophets or people that look like him. But the proftet of truth's kind may not be called prophets, and might be called somethiung different.--[[User:Leemyster|leemyster]] 13:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Campain Choice ==

There is a rumor going around Halo 3 forums that you can choose who you can play as, Meaning you either play as the Arbiter or the Master Chief, your choice.
[http://www.halo3forum.com/halo-3-general-discussion/148071-discovery-about-co-op-in-h3-from-the-trailer-2.html#post2617394 Link to rumor]

At this stage there is no ''confirmation''. When Bungie says whether the Arbiter is playable or not we can add it, until then there's no need to mention it. I personally think he will be available as a coop character, but that's just my opinion and it shouldn't be added to the article (my opinion that is). [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 09:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Huh. Looks like the latest issue of EGM says that the Arbiter ''is'' playable in Halo 3's campaign. Whaddya know. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 16:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
:Since I am at work and cant get onto the EGM page can you tell me what date they are putting it on the shelves?[[User:Xenocide321|Xenocide321]] 19:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think its for sure but since the arbiter is playing along side the Master Cheif vertially the entire game there would be no purpose in having 2 different campain's and the fact that the arbiter is a co-op player might enhance this thought. Im not posative just a guess.

Campain Choice has been confirmed [http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack| Bungie news]

No it hasn't. However, the Arbiter is available in co-op. Also, your link is broken.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Extra grenade? ==

In the E3 2007 trailer; at 0:50 (50 seconds) there is a 1st person view of MC killing a brute with a battle rifle and if you look at his grenades he has 4 types. It's '''not''' equipment (like a shield drainer or bubble shield) because that is displayed under the grenades. Is it known what it is or hasn't Bungie said anything? [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 04:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[[:Image:Screenshoth3e307.png]]

Currenty it's unknown... Hackers found an Agility powerup or piece of equipment, in the beta code, and its speculated that this is it. [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 15:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

:Ok thanks, and at the moment that screenshot needs to be put in an article or it will be deleted (see [[WP:FU]]), sorry to be such a copyright-nut. [[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 01:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

In the next months EGM mag there is a ton of new tHalo 3 info,the 4th grenade is the Flare, a smoke grenade of sorts. There are more new weapons shown too! Gravity Hammer - a shockwave-generating device that's used for close-range attacks and vehicle disruptions. The Mauler - a dual-wield shotgun.[[User:valo_sweet_666|valo_sweet_666]]

:The Flare is a new piece of equipment, similar to the Portable Grav Lift, Power Drainer, and Bubble Shield available in the multiplayer beta. Even in EGM, the fourth grenade remains more of a rumor than anything. "We saw hints of a fourth grenade type, though it never actually appeared in action. Bungie won't give any details on this possible addition--or whether it will even be included in the final game." [[User:Brent Butler|Brent Butler]] [[Special:Contributions/Brent Butler|contribs]][[User talk:Brent Butler|talk]] 16:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

it has been confirmed 2 days ago by bungie that the 4th grenade is the fire grenade. heres link http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12699

== EGM Leak ==

Should that be included? It was leaked on the GameFAQS board and there were quite a few pictures...[[User:Argias|Argias]] 01:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Where is this leak? [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 01:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

On the Halo 3 board on GameFAQS. Just ask them for the stuff and they'll post it. I can't, as I was recently banned.

Link: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=926632&topic=36863163 No pics though... [[User:Argias|Argias]] 04:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oeaFIrBz2vA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9XHxwI_dqEU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MrG93-6AbtI

== ONLINE CO-OP ==

Following reports earlier in the month that online co-operative gameplay was on the verge of not making it in Halo 3, Bungie has today confirmed that the four player Online Co-Op is now confirmed! [[User:Valo sweet 666|Valo sweet 666]] 04:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

They've announced that Player One will play as Master Chief. Player Two will be the Arbiter. Players Three and Four will be elite soldiers. All three will have identical abilities, aside from the starting weapon which will be carbines for the elites instead of the battle rifle which Master Chief will use. Here are some details about those characters directly from Bungie.net:

PLAYER 3 (Sangheili)

Name: N’tho ‘Sraom
Affiliation: Fleet of Retribution/Special Warfare Group/Special Operations
History: N’tho ‘Sraom is the youngest member of his Special Operations unit and is one of a growing number of human sympathizers amongst the Sangheili youth. He is a fairly typical young male adult Sangheili—he began compulsory military service at the end of adolescence, and remains unmarried with no close, non-familial relationships outside of his martial order. N’tho Sraom refused to stand idly by while the Prophets replaced Sangheili units with Jiralhanae packs, and now bears deep resentment toward those Sangheili politicians who landed his kind in their current predicament.

Although N’tho ‘Sraom’s romanticized nationalism is emblematic of all Sangheili, he has developed a healthy respect for humanity—not for their physical abilities or martial prowess, but for their audacity and resolve.

PLAYER 4 (Sangheili)

Name: Usze ‘Taham
Affiliation: Fleet of Retribution/Special Warfare Group/Fleet Security
History: Although Usze ‘Taham was born into a respected merchant family he was fathered by Toha ‘Sumai—one of the preeminent swordfighters of this age. Usze graduated with honors from the top War College in the Iruiru region of Yermo, Sanghelios (a distinction he shares with Rtas 'Vadum). Shortly after receiving his first post within the Covenant Navy he was offered a place on the Prophets’ Honor Guard but he declined citing “lack of practical experience”. In truth, he had no desire to be part of a largely ceremonial unit, and at the end of his third combat tour, Usze ‘Taham again refused the post—even though his superiors warned him such behavior could be misinterpreted as apostasy.

Since that time Usze has evaded countless punitive actions, at least two assassination attempts, and served with distinction for two additional tours before the Schism. Following the dissolution of the Covenant, he was approached by the Ascetics to become one of their liaisons within the Navy.
[[User:Hammet1982|Hammet1982]] 21:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

:If a source is needed, this was stated in the August 1st Bungie podcast. [[User:64.230.63.54|64.230.63.54]] 07:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

:: '''''Done''''', added to the article with a citation to the announcement about it on b.net [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

== typo fix ==
{{tl|editprotected}} Gameplay section, third paragraph, first sentence, "were it is most useful" should read "where it is most useful"
:done. [[User:Od Mishehu|Od]] [[User talk:Od Mishehu|Mishehu]] 07:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

== New Information Via EGM Magazine (08/07) ==

=== New Weapons ===

* Mauler- Brute shotgun. Dual-wield.

=== New Equipment ===

* Regenerator- Regenerates shields.
* Flare- Blinds all that view the flash.
* Radar Jammer- Creates fake blips on enemy motion detectors.

is the equipment like bubble-sheild and trip mine available in camapign?[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 13:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

=== New Vehicles ===

* Hornet- Human aerial vehicle. Appears to have vertical takeoff and landing.
* Prowler- Brute vehicle like the Elite Specter.
* Warthog Personel Carrier- Human Warthog with room for soldiers in the back "cab".
* Elephant- Large vehicle that looks like a [[Sandcrawler]]. Moves very slow and is protected by mounted turrets. Houses a spawn point, flag spawn, and flag return.

:: Thats great anonymous user. But unless you fix us up a nice citation using [[Template:Cite_journal]] or [[Template:Citation]], we can't use the info. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

:::I dont have the link from the article because i cant get it at work, but I too have seen this information on the egm.1up.com site. [[User:Xenocide321|Xenocide321]] 18:30, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== More magazine tidbits (Edge 179) ==

Over today, I'll be adding a few new tidbits about Halo 3 to the article from the latest [[Edge (magazine)|Edge]] magazine in the UK. I'll also be adding full cites to bits I add as well, just to make it proper. Please don't worry about this being a leak, or false information. I have the magazine right in front of me, and assuming EDGE themselves didn't get it wrong, it is all correct.

One tidbit that i've just added; there are '''53,595''' pieces of audio in Halo 3, of which '''39,368''' are of NPC dialogue. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

== Million Preorders ==

the news hitting the intertubes today is that there have already been one million copies sold, over a month before release. is this notable enough to put in the article? is it a record of any kind? -anon

:I think so, a mention in the lead section should do saying it's one of the most anticipated games with more than 1 million copies pre-ordered, with a source of course. Speaking of which, I had to go searching to pre-order my legendary edition, they're sold out at so many places now. I had to drive ~30km to find a store that wasn't sold out! (it's a long way considering how many stores there are near me). [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I only preordered the cheapest version of the game... saving the bigs bucks for the GTA4 special edition... Anyway, According to the article now this is or is not a new record for preorders. Someone added a new source showing higher preorders for halo 2. I think it has something to do with how quickly they got to 1 million preorders... I'll be looking for a source, and I'm betting I'll be able to find a source that states 2 Million or more pre-orders for this game by the time the launch finally hits. -anon

== HALO 3 PROMOTION!!! ==

Jesus Christ, scroll down to the bottom. lots of new info regardign the promotion for the game. [[User:Brownstone999|Brownstone999]] 18:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

== FLAMETHROWER!!!! ==

[http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html] You have to put this in its so sweet!!

Can you find another source to confirm this information by? [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 16:40, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

has been confirmed by bungie [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 03:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

== Legendary Edition image ==

I found a free image of the legendary edition ([[:Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg]]) though I'm not sure where to add it to the article, I think that the "Different versions" section would have too much white space if I were to add it there. Any suggestions, or just go ahead if you have a good idea. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 03:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

== Note ==

It states in weapons that you cannot hide a seconday weapon, however the energy sword in the beta would deactivate after being switched, allowing you to hide it. [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 16:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

:However, it still visibly appeared on the players leg. So its not invisible when you switch like it was in previous games. Thats the point of the sentence in the article. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 09:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== Halo 3 Epsilon and new flame weapons ==

I recommend you mention the halo 3 epsilon that is currently active. Bungie has yet to confirm this epsilon but many trustworthy websites have written about it and I have personally seen someone playing the halo 3 epsilon.
Links to some websites:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812230p1.html
http://kotaku.com/gaming/soon/so-whats-halo-3-epsilon-288442.php
http://kotaku.com/gaming/and-nothing-but-the-truth/the-truth-behind-halo-3-epsilon-288565.php
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EElyluyuuASXUMvxWV.php

Regarding the flamethrower and firebomb, these were confirmed by IGN and included an interview with a Bungie employee. "O'Connor confirmed that the gadget (bubble shield) will provide safe haven from fire."It will wash over the shield. It will actually burn on the surface of the shield."

:The Epsilon is just another stage of internal testing. As the article stands theres no real place for it. However, if there was a "development" section, it could be mentioned there. Oh, and firebomb and flamethrower have been added now. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 09:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== More info on Meta-Game scoring ==

I don't remember where I read it (new EGM I think, but I don't have a copy) but they have released how the meta-game scoring will go. It will be based on things like head-shots, using skulls (which have negative effects), killing mutliple enemies at once, etc. It will essentially work like the stat baords in multiplayer games, but with a point value associated with the different stats and medals as well as some Single-Player only things like using skulls. If anyone has the data on this, I think it would be nice to add to the info for the meta-game since the wording right now is a little weak.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 15:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

: Yes. This is one of the things mentioned in Edge 179 that I meant to update the article with. I don't know about the "killing multiple enemies at once" one, but there are still things that could be added. I'll have a look... [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:24, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::'''Done:''' Well mostly. I reworded most of it, and added info about headshots and speed of progression. Also noting the competitive aspect it introduces to co-op. Oh, plus a quote! [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 15:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

== Post-release cleanup and organization ==

(Just want to get this out of the way) ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]'' and ''[[Halo 2]]'' are both [[WP:FA|featured articles]], so ideally I would like this to be as well. Obviously immediately after it's released there won't be enough critical reception (and face it, we'll all be too busy playing the damn game), however I would like to suggest that shortly before the release we shunt a copy of this page to a subpage, perhaps [[/prerelease]] or whatever; that way, we can trash the main page and reorganize it, while still having a copy in the back (to grab details about development, rumors and prerelease info that will be extremely helpful upon release.) Anyone have any objections to this/improvements? [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] <nowiki>(</nowiki>[[User talk:David Fuchs|talk]]<nowiki>)</nowiki> 22:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think that would be an excellent way to help develop and refine the article. And I completely agree with you on getting this to FA since CE and 2 are FAs. It'll take time, but all good things do. [[User:Cliff smith|Cliff smith]] 23:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

::I also agree, I was wondering myself what we should do with the current article but that sounds like an excellent idea. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:::Yeah. Upon release, it will need a significant rewrite. Because a lot of the stuff is listed chronologically and with lots of "will introduce" "was revealed on" etc. Putting a copy of the article on a subpage does seem like a good reference point for developing an FA worthy article. We'll have to decide exactly what needs to be said in regards to things that are covered in the article now, but aren't covered in counter-part on Halo and Halo 2 pages. Because thinks like the current "technology" or "features" (saved films) section, aren't covered at all in many other game articles. But, perhaps they should be?
:::The article as it stands, is still pretty good I would say. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Yeah, there is nothing about the technology behind the games in the other articles, but also in terms of release marketing and reception- that ''killed'' me when I had to go digging for it at FAC. [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] <nowiki>(</nowiki>[[User talk:David Fuchs|talk]]<nowiki>)</nowiki> 15:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::Um, whats FAC? [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 15:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::::[[WP:FAC]] = Featured article candidates, but it's often referred to as the process of "putting an article through FAC" as in nominating and responding to the discussion. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::: Ah, thought it might be. Just had to check. Thanks [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

==Vague, POV wording here==
I don't like how the following passage was worded. No citation is given and we are not even told which 2 weapons the author found to be the only useful ones in the original Halo. For one, I used every weapon in Halo, and in multi-player I used the Sniper-Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun frequently like many players. Since this ungrounded bias reads like a POV sales pitch for the new game, I'd like to have this sentence rewritten please:

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are ''''famously'' limited only two choices of weapons in Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overwhelmingly the best overall choice for whatever type of situation they may encounter.
--[[User:Charizardpal|Charizardpal]] 20:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

: I wrote that. I was trying to explain the bit about "the balance of weapons..has been altered." Perhaps it seems a little out of context now. It orgininally did say at the end "(such as the M6D in the first Halo)" however someonce decided that wasn't needed and removed it. It still holds true, I feel. If you didn't know what was coming. You'd choose an M6D and the most powerful weapon you could find.
:Now, probably, it does need a rewrite. Though I don't know what could be said. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

::"Only two weapons at any one time" might fit better? [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

== New Toy ==

Speaking of new toys, apparantly Wired magazine confirms a new weapon. Wasn't sure where to post this, but the URL is here...

http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/15-09/ff_halo?currentPage=4

And apparantly describes another turret-type weapon that's covenant based called the Plasma Turret. Does someone want to put this where it needs to go?

-Uwasa

:This is simply a redesign of the existing portable plasma turret. i.e. the one without the shield on the front. Whats new is that it is detachable like the human turret, and the weapon looks more impressive to reflect its powerful nature. [[User:157.174.221.167|157.174.221.167]] 19:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

::Just wanted to add that this turret can be seen in action in the HALO 3 videos form this years PAX. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] ([[User talk:157.174.221.168|talk]]) 20:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 

I was surfing the GameStop website, when I came accross a few more limited editions of another very cool, but some-what pointless Halo 3 extras. Im sure you all know about the SPARTAN and Elite controlers, and the Halo 3 wireless head-set. The 2 new items are the MadCatz Xbox 360 Halo 3 Faceplate/Skin Pack, and the SPNKr Missle cass. Yea that's right, a SPNKr missle cass (the missle ammo pick-ups from the games). From the picture, it looks like it can hold one controller and a wired-headset (or, maybe 2 controllers) and it looks like it has room for 5 CDs. The missle cass is only available online, so dont go to the store looking for one.

The links for the 2 new extras, respectively

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802715

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802720

: - that missle case thingy is pretty cool, very original halo memorabeila —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|22:51:47, August 19, 2007 (UTC)}}} 

[[User:Gundam94|Gundam94]] 17:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== Female Voice ==

I know this feature has been confirmed by Bungie, but has anyone seen anything about when you ever hear it? Those that are familiar with Halo know that the characters voice is never really used in multi. Its just not very clear in the article why having a female voice option matters. The way its written sounds like you speak through character voices instead of just using the xbox live headset and may be misleading to those unfamiliar with the game.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 18:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Its there for when the player dies, you will hear a female scream istead of male. .[[User:Valo sweet 666|Valo sweet 666]] 17 August 2007 (UTC)

:I would have thought it would be the voice that says "double kill" or "flag taken" etc. That would make a more noticable difference that would probably be worth mentioning in a weekly update but then again I'm just speculating. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 03:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

It is when you hear the player die in MultiPlayer. You will never hear it during the campaign, and it does not change the voice of the announcer.--Tyguy92 17:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think its the 'voice mask' that is going to be female or male. they did this because of the increasing amount of female gamers, so it wouldnt be sexist that the only voice mask you could get would be one of a male voice. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Leemyster|Leemyster]] ([[User talk:Leemyster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Leemyster|contribs]]) 13:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 

The female voice that bungie has added will be used when your character is meleed, in halo 2 your character would "grunt" so to speak. now, you can change that grunt to a shriek, it does not change your voice masking, the voice of the announcer, or any other game unrelated aspects, its simply an aesthetic change. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.126.243.32|70.126.243.32]] ([[User talk:70.126.243.32|talk]]) 02:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

== IGN Q&A with Bungie ==

I recently added a quote from Tyson Green of Bungie Studios from a Q/A session at IGN.com. The rest of the interview may have some info that could verify and/or supplement what's already here. [[User:Cliff smith|Cliff smith]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

== Bubble Shield Issue ==

Correct me if I'm worng but as I remember from the Beta, from within the bubble shield you can still fire outwards. If I'm completely wrong, just disregard this. —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|13:08, August 23, 2007 (UTC)}}} 

:No, you can't, it prevents fire both ways. When the beta was available I would approach a bubble and throw a grenade inside. It contains the explosion and pretty much guarantees a kill if there's anyone inside it. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 13:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

::The new stationary shield has a slit you can fire through though. I believe it was confirmed in the EGM issue, but I could be wrong.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

== NEW HALO 3 BLOW OUT ON IGN.COM!!! ==

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/815/815041p1.html

wow, there is so much info we can add on this article. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 21:12, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Quite, I read all the way through it, but not as much as one would think. A case of it says alot without telling us much. There is some useful info there, just alotta waffle around it.[[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 20:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

you phail, there is plenty of info to add due to that link [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:43, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Not that I see. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 05:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks like mostly the same stuff to me [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 02:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC) [[User:The Shroud]]

== Listing ==
For the weapons, maps, equipment, etc., you guys should start listing the confirmed ones and put them in a list instead of the little article that only summerizes a couple of tidbits of information. It's only a month away from Sept. 25 and Bungie and alot of other websites (IGN, 1up, etc.) have confirmed a bunch of other stuff. We should start a list soon. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|22:07, August 24, 2007 (UTC)}}} 
:Wikipedia is not a list. We already had that, but it was eliminated because it was unencyclopedic. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 05:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

::And it was huge. the olde "confirmed elements" section practically took over the whole article. And there are plenty of other sites that will list every weapon and vehicle and map etc. Wikipedia doesn't need to [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== PC Version ==

Please don't attack me for asking this (as I'm afraid Xbox fans will do) but what is the current possibility of a PC version being released or done? They have released a PC version for both the original and Halo 2, are they planning to do the same with Halo 3? Just wondering if anyone knew anything about it and therefore it could be added to the article. [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 07:52, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

:There hasn't been any word of a Halo 3 PC as far as I know, but as you said, the previous 2 had PC versions released later so it's likely there will be some day. There is no confirmation by Bungie or Microsoft though so it can't be added to the article. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 08:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

::Again if the last 2 were released you can expect the same of this one. BUT, the first one wasn't released until just prior to xbox Halo 2 coming out, and Halo2 PC is just now coming out. I wouldn't just hold out for the PC version if I were you because it will be a while, and it'll be pretty outdated by then for PC standards.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

:Seems I'll have to wait for it on the PC, though. [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 20:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Yes, but likely not to long, from what i hear. Deal with it and find a friend with a 360 until it comes out...
I want it for PC too [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 00:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

See this article http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170224&skip=yes [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 00:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

:It will be a few years before the PC version comes out. MS isn't that dumb since this is one of their biggest system sellers.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, a PC version is not being made as of yet. Bungie have already said they want to get the 360 version out before even considering it. But, since the other two were, you can be fairly certain it will eventually come to PC (ahem, Vista). [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== in EGM's latest issue, they gave Halo's AI the "best AI" on the showroom floor ==

This should be included when talking about the AI in the game. Keep in mind that EGM only does console stuff though. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.117.224.11|71.117.224.11]] ([[User talk:71.117.224.11|talk]]) 01:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Burning wood? ==

I saw a vid where the wooden pallets burned, but it cut off early so i don't know [[User:The Shroud]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] ([[User talk:74.245.38.202|talk]]) 02:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 

What vid? do you have a link? [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 17:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

== Gold ==

What does 'gone gold' actually mean in terms of video games? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 16:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC) 

:Gone gold generally means that it it is certidied Golden master, e.g. it's ready for production then shipment. Gold is he last thing a game is certified before it is released to the people that make all those DVDs, who then pass it on to the store lines and such. [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 17:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

::Just a note to clarify, "gone gold" has nothing to do with sales numbers like it does in the music industry. The master copies of optical discs were traditionally (and sometimes still are) gold colored due to the material they were made from and with no real marketing purpose.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== 1up's daily coverage ==

Today there is supposed to be an update but when i went to the website, it was still locked and the date said 9/03/07. Anyone know what time they unlock those? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 14:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC) 
:Check again. It's there now.--[[User:Roeas|Roeas]] 00:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Canadian Money ==

hey can you guys put the prices of the halo 3 game version in Canadian too. If you do thanks. :)[[User:68.145.77.173|68.145.77.173]] 23:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Legendary only available in ... ==

I removed the text "The legendary edition is currently only available in North America and Brazil." because it's unsourced and not true. Why Brazil & not UK? Besides, I live in Australia and have pre-ordered the Legendary without any problems. If there's a source listing the places that the Legendary Edition is available, by all means add the info, but make sure it's reliable. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Havok Engine ==

In the box in the top right corner of the page, where it says which Game Engine is used, shouldn't the Havok Engine be listed as well as the Halo Engine, since Havok is used for physics calculation?--[[User:Roeas|Roeas]] 00:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I'm not sure, on some articles it states the game engine they use, including all the various physics engines, on others it doesn't. I don't see why you can't put it there.[[User:The Lord Of The Crayons|The Lord Of The Crayons]] 00:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Sony, Stay Off Wikipedia ==

Honestly, [http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/09/04/sony-tries-to-secretly-wiki-diss-halo-3-and-fails/ doesn’t Sony have anything better to do?] Trying to edit the Halo 3 Wikipedia page? Didn’t they even know their ISP would be caught? Even if they attempted this from a home ISP, the rules in Wikipedia are fairly clear on speculative, source-less entries, much less weasel-worded opinions. Plus, Sony apparently hasn’t learned good grammar, since they capitalized after a comma.

Maybe Sony should be concentrating on its own software than trying to clumsily sling mud anonymously. [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 18:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sony must have gone crazy. Caught vandalizing rival product article. What an insult for themselves. Its already a hot news out there.--[[User:R.iqbal|R.iqbal]] 18:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I love Halo, but you you guys sound like idiots when you say "sony did this, sony did that." Did you ever stop to consider maybe it was just an employee there. Whether you'd like to beleive it or not, Sony is not stupid, and they did not get to the top of consumer electronics by making dumb marketing moves. If Sony wanted to discredit Halo, I'm sorry, but they would not change the wikipedia entry on it. What would that accomplish. Stop acting like victims, grow up, and think the situation through.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

...Are you serious? If they didn't want to be held accountable they should have done it from a different computer. It doesn't matter whether it was an employee or not, they still are held accountable due to it being done from their IP. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/153.90.68.64|153.90.68.64]] ([[User talk:153.90.68.64|talk]]) 02:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

:my dad works at bungie (his name is frank o'connor) and he gave me halo 3 for my birthday last year and Sony is wrong. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Goatsmoke|Goatsmoke]] ([[User talk:Goatsmoke|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Goatsmoke|contribs]]) 07:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

It is obviously done by some sony employee. But who cares, it's from sony so its done by sony. The mud have been spilled and its sony sony who is disgraced in the end. People are making fun of sony everywhere from game forums to news articles. I assume MS is loughing like hell seeing this news all over the place.--[[User:R.iqbal|R.iqbal]] 07:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::I'd like to request that this discussion ends. Unless it is being discussed as to enter this information in the article or not, this talk page is [[WP:FORUM|not a forum]] for discussion about the article's topic. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 08:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Heh. How is this unrelated to editing the Halo 3 article? (wink) [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 17:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Heck, this is one of the few points on the talk page directly relating to the editing of the article! [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 22:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Saying that "Sony is embarrassed seeing this news all over the place" is a complete exaggeration. Sure, a few people who read news on gaming sites may be laughing, but most regular gamers never heard of the story. I didn't hear about it until this discussion. It's not real news unless the AP or Reuters picks it up, otherwise, it's just a confirmed internet rumor that will be chuckled at by the few who read gaming news sites.(Excluding game reviews, these are more widely read.)--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 22:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it is all over the place. This is the internet after all and news like this travels like wildfire. The article from Vnunet has been linked on several forums I visit.[[User:Yasgur|Yasgur]] 03:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I also want to request that this discussion end. This page is [[WP:FORUM|not a forum]] to discuss why someone from a Sony-related IP edited [[Halo 3]]. This page is for discussing how to improve the article. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 04:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Bearing that thought in mind. I find that the little section concerning Sony 'vandalizing Wikipedia's article to not show neutrality in the subject in mind. <blockquote>For As of September 04, 2007 an internet technology and news site reported that a wikipedia user posted under the graphics section that Halo 3 would have graphics only marginally better than Halo 2. This news site determined that the user had posted from the Liverpool office of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE).[46] Undoubtedly, this was an attempt to downplay the upcoming release of the hotly anticipated title.
</blockquote>

I feel that last sentence or perhaps the whole article should be re-evaluated to seem more neutral then a POV of some halo fan's. Don't get me wrong I am a great fan of Halo but I don't think it seems proper to bash sony on Wikipedia and claim at the end Halo is Awesome. This is what I am getting when I read this article. [[User:24.226.195.58|24.226.195.58]] 13:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:A little off-topic but saying its a "hotly anticipated title" and stating that its rightfully hotly aniticipated are two different things. I don't think anyone would argue that it is very highly anticipated.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
::The preorder numbers (projected minimum $172M on first day), the Madame Tussounds wax figure, the hype, the commercials, etc - it's hotly anticipated. [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 04:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Considering that the PS3 is a failure, Sony seems to be getting increasingly desperate. What a shame. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.110.26.86|24.110.26.86]] ([[User talk:24.110.26.86|talk]]) 03:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 

yes, i agree. sony is scared witless of halo 3, b/c they know that it will knock them out when it comes out[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 11:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

== Different Editions Omission ==

There missing a difference between the editions. Both the Limited and the Legendary editions come with an "HD Calibration Disk". This was briefly noted on the bungie website. This is a Halo 3 themed disk that will help to Calibrate your HDTV to get the best picture.
[[User:69.158.17.235|69.158.17.235]] 01:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)Jason M - TO

:I could be wrong, but I beleive it is available to everyone with an Xbox Live Silver or Gold membership now. Do some research into it if you want, I'm sure the Bungie forum will be glad to help once they stop posting "phail". Sorry for the rant, but that forum is one of the most immature I've ever been in.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::As far as I know, that tool is on the "Interactive Xbox 360 Disc." So is with the limited and legendary versions. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Well regardless as to whether its on xbox live, it should be mentioned if it also comes on the disc. Since only like 50% (i think it was) of xbox owners are on live, it would be good info for them. Also, 4chans boards are by far and away more immature than Bungies.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== addition to weapons section ==

it should be noted under the weapons section that the covenant needler can no longer be dual wielded due to a significant power increase.

:Okay, go ahead and make the change. You don't need permission to add info to the entry, that's your right. If formatting of grammar is not right, someone will make the change for you until you learn.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::Well, by all means make the edit. But, we don't want to be "game guidey" describing all the changes to every single weapon in the game. The overall statement "with minor power and cosmetic changes" is fine I believe. The needler is still the needler and just has different power. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Why are the graphics not much better? ==
The graphics in this game are disappointing. They have a good replay/cutscene engine but the real gameplay engine looks only slightly better than Halo2.

Halo3
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/734/734817/img_4818511.html

Halo2
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/804/804393/img_4486727.html

Yes it is a fair comparison even if its the PC version of Halo2 because both are running in high resolution. Seems bungie went lazy on this one and didn't bother to spend the development time to improve the engine to the best of the systems abilities. Like Halo and Halo2, Halo3 is sure to have frame rate issues and even worse when in split screen.
[[User:Vietone|Vietone]] 13:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

have either of u guys seen the halo 3 single player thing? i mean, the graphics blew me away. if u say its not better than halo 2, i dont thuink u payed attantion. the betes werent that great, but there u go: BETA [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:(facepalm) Haven't you noticed by now that the graphics in multiplayer are not going to be as good as the ones in singleplayer? That's because they matter less in multiplayer than they do in singleplayer, which is where the real shininess is going to go. This: [/media/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Halo_3_online_co-op.jpg] is a far better example of Halo 3's graphics, and that itself may or may not be the final build. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] ([[User talk:Peptuck|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peptuck|contribs]]) 15:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

::If you look carefully, there are vast improvements. Halo 2 had visible polygons, whereas Halo 3's polygons are tiny. There weren't really framerate issues in Halo 1 or 2 unless you made a lot of blood on the ground. Though NTSC may differ from PAL-60 in this case. Still, I don't think there's anything bad about the graphics, sure Halo was never a game with amazing graphics but they aren't bad. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 08:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:Well, the action does (supposedly) take place in much larger areas. And there is more going on and more enemies on screen at once. So theres two reasons. Plus, i believe, a lot of the beauty of the game is in its subtlety. the bloom isn't overdone, the lighting it soft were it needs to be, things that are supposed to be natural look natural. textures convery the surface of an object without getting in your face. Oh, and PCs have FAR more RAM than the 360. So even in H2V, they can have higher res textures in some cases. :Plus, who said there would be framerate issues? All accounts so far point to a very stable framerate in Halo 3. While H1 and H2 had some framerate issues, i've seen games with far worse issues in that regard. Oh, and Halo 3 had a much longer "polish" period at the end of development than halo 2, and certainly longer than H1. All signs seem good.
:Besides, the talk page is for the article, until we have some proper commentary (ie reviews) about how much the graphics suck or not, theres no reason to talk about it. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I agree, this is an article talk page and we should be discussing the article, not the game. I got a bit sidetracked. Please let's keep it on-topic from now. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::To keep on topic about the article, we should really remove that pic of High Ground or at least mention that the screenshot is from the Beta and NOT the final build and thus not representative of the actual in-game graphics. Bungie has said many times that many graphical settings were turned down or off for the beta. For instance, if someone wishes to dig through their site, they said that there was absolutely not Anti-aliasing in the Beta, and turning that on will help greatly. The purpose of the Beta was to test the gameplay and the online functions, not the graphics engine.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

==Xbox 360 Achievements==
Hi, I wanted to add a link to a list of the Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3 in the External Links section on the Halo 3 page, but the page is protected. I was going to add this link: *[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]. Can someone help me with this? --[[User:UaneReade|UaneReade]] 14:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:Wikipedia generally frowns on Lists and info that is considered [[fancruft]] or game-guide like material instead of the type of stuff you'd find in an encyclopedia.(I always forget to sign)[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 14:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Picture ==

For the 2 beta pictures, can you at least mention it's from the beta, you did good on the other picture mentiong it's a work in progress, you might as well mention that the beta pics are from the beta, now seeing that was like 6 months ago. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.38.203.115|72.38.203.115]] ([[User talk:72.38.203.115|talk]]) 02:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 
:It doesn't really matter, does it?--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 02:33, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

yes, it does. since it is a beta or work-in-progress still, it needs to ber known that it is not the final product[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 11:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:If you feel so strongly about it, you can add it in yourself--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 19:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

== Old Maps ==
Will their be any multiplayer maps from Halo 1 or Halo 2 that will be in Halo 3 other than Last Resort (Zanzibar)? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 23:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 
:The game isn't out yet, so who knows. Also, the talk page is to discuss the article, not the game itself--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 01:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::Agreed with above. If you can phrase it in a way that is more encyclopedic and not so game-forum-esque, it could be added. Oh and to answer your question, Lockout has also been remade with a jungle theme and can be seen in the videos from PAX.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 14:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== RV please ==

I would rv the current verison myself but I'm an IP. I can't belvie no one noticed this.--[[User:71.170.106.104|71.170.106.104]] 02:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== in EGM's latest issue, they gave Halo's AI the "best AI" on the showroom floor ==

[[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 02:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
this topic was already here[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Auctions ==

idk if anyone noticed this, but there's a lot of confusion abt these 2 ebay auctions, u can check the halo.bungie.org site to find out the details, but i'm surprisd no1 posted about it yet.after checking it out, wat do u ppl think, real or not?[[http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=832934]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Discopete117|Discopete117]] ([[User talk:Discopete117|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Discopete117|contribs]]) 21:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Halo 3 is selling on Ebay, add this in ==

Halo 3 is selling on Ebay, add this in [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 23:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

i already did, look at auctions, i'v also got a link where people discuss it so just delete it[[User:Discopete117|Discopete117]] 00:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

No you didin't. THe word "ebay" or "auction" is not mentioned once. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 02:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:The part about this eBay auction is poorly formatted and place haphazardly in the middle of the article, if it is to stay, it needs to be fixed. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

::This is the exact text that was in the article. I am removing the text from the article temporarily until it can be cleaned up and a better location found for it within the text of the article:

"- ===Ebay Leek and kids getting banned for life===
- - - - - - THe game is selling on Ebay right now, and kids are also getting banned for life by playin halo 3 right now
- - - - -
- - - - - Source: http://news.filefront.com/halo-3-available-on-ebay/
- - - - -
- - - - - source: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=halo+3+ban"

[[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Look if you guys don't like it, then fix it yourself. But you can't remove it yourself and not fix it. So either fix it yourself, or don't mess with it [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 03:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==3RR==
Refering to the [[WP:3RR|three revert rule]], please use this discussion to determine the fate of the eBay leak portion of the article, rather than remove and re-add the content repeatedly. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Well, it can be reworded, as you said above--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 03:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
So? If you don't like it, then fix it. Don't remove it. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::So... I removed it, per [[WP:NOT#NEWS]]. And it will continue to be removed, this is not a news service nor is a forum to announce cruft like this. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Spigot your logic is flawed, if something is leeked onto the internet it does go on wikipedia. Try again [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::Only if said leak can be classified as a [[WP:RS|reliable source]].--[[User:Yeti Hunter|Yeti Hunter]] 04:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I did provide a source. Hell, just go to google news and type "halo 3 ebay" and you'll get results. Like I said, don't even attempt to think to remove this from the page, if you have trouble with the spelling and what not then fix it, don't just blatantly remove it though. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Thanks for not writing [[WP:Civil|civily]]. Please READ the wikilinks we have provided and you will see why it will not be included until it is confirmed and reported by a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

: Might be notable to note that 1) this does not deserve to be before all other sections of the article; 2) unless you provide a '''specific''' credible source, such information should not be added to Wikipedia; and 3) as according to the comment posted in the article, please '''do not''' repeatedly insert your snippet over and over again, until this is issue is resolved on the talk page. [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay ==

Full retail PAL version of the game leaked.

Right here, IGN.COM - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

If you argue with the notablitiy of IGN.com you are tremoundously un-informed [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay ==

Full retail PAL version of the game leaked.

Right here, IGN.COM - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

If you argue with the notablitiy of IGN.com you are tremoundously un-informed [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Halo 3

2007-09-12T04:26:57Z

Duff man2007: /* Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay */ new section

{{talkheader}}
{{HaloWikiProject|class=B}}
{{cvgproj|class=B|importance=mid|small=yes}}
{{Archive box|
*[[/Archive 1|1: July — November 2006]]
*[[/Archive 2|2: November — December 2006]]
*[[/Archive 3|3: December 2006 — January 2007]]
*[[/Archive 4|4: January 2007 - April 2007]]
*[[/Archive 5|5: April 2007 - June 2007]]}}

''Why isnt it for pc'''''Bold text''' —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.224.191.90|74.224.191.90]] ([[User talk:74.224.191.90|talk]]) 21:17, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Forerunners? ==

has anyone noticed that in the game, the forerunners, thoguh not specifically described, seem to have been some type of human race?

got info from listening to the monitor in halo 1, and reading halo: the flood and halo:ghosts of onyx. tidbits of dialogue and documents seem to imply tht the forrunners may have been human
[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
::The discussion page is only for topics pertaining to the article itself, not the game. If you want to speculate, go find a relevant message board. [[User:Amalga|Amalga]] —The preceding {{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} | | comment was }} [[Wikipedia:Signatures|signed but undated]]{{#ifeq:{{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} | | | comment was added at {{{Date|{{{Time|01:35, August 27, 2007}}}}}} (UTC{{{Zone|{{{3|{{{2|}}}}}}}}}) }}. 

:::i was hoping sm1 would know if they have released any info on if the forerunners will make an appearence in halo 3. didnt make that clear. sry. [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
::::In regards to information about the storyline, Bungie's been pretty mum about the in-depth details. Whether or not the Forerunners will appear in Halo 3 is not a storyline detail they'd want to reveal before the game comes out, so no. No information has been released. [[User:Amalga|Amalga]] 04:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::According to the Halo ARG "Iris", the Forerunners were not human. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.167.2.89|67.167.2.89]] ([[User talk:67.167.2.89|talk]]) 02:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

and where did u get that information? a link would be nice. cuz i played the iris game and it said nothing about being or not being human [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:15, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== '''Gameplay revisions''' ==

Consider revisign the Gameplay section, most of it seems extremely useless to the article, much of the information if very obvious and present in almost any game.

I Agree, the grammar and puncuation is poor. There are uneccessary commas all over the place.

It also it states that the game follows The Master Chief, with no mention of the Arbiter.

It also contains opinion - when mentioning the Multiplayer element of the game "... and is the primary reason for the series' enormous success." The games Halo:CE and Halo 2 were hugely successful despite the multiplayer element.

English is also poor eg when describing it as a first person shooter it states that the game "Largely builds off of previous renditions of the franchise..." Surely this should read "Largely builds on.." or "Largely builds upon..."

That is just a few examples.

[[User:63.174.7.252|63.174.7.252]] 11:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

these have been fixed, courtesy of yours truly[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:43, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

==Just Wondering==
You do realize that Truth isn't the last Prophet, right?

:yeah but hes the one in power right now, so we don't really care about the rest of his race.[[User:157.174.221.167|157.174.221.167]] 20:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

True, but it matters on what you define as 'the prophets'. yes, theres more prophets or people that look like him. But the proftet of truth's kind may not be called prophets, and might be called somethiung different.--[[User:Leemyster|leemyster]] 13:29, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Campain Choice ==

There is a rumor going around Halo 3 forums that you can choose who you can play as, Meaning you either play as the Arbiter or the Master Chief, your choice.
[http://www.halo3forum.com/halo-3-general-discussion/148071-discovery-about-co-op-in-h3-from-the-trailer-2.html#post2617394 Link to rumor]

At this stage there is no ''confirmation''. When Bungie says whether the Arbiter is playable or not we can add it, until then there's no need to mention it. I personally think he will be available as a coop character, but that's just my opinion and it shouldn't be added to the article (my opinion that is). [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 09:11, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Huh. Looks like the latest issue of EGM says that the Arbiter ''is'' playable in Halo 3's campaign. Whaddya know. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 16:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
:Since I am at work and cant get onto the EGM page can you tell me what date they are putting it on the shelves?[[User:Xenocide321|Xenocide321]] 19:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think its for sure but since the arbiter is playing along side the Master Cheif vertially the entire game there would be no purpose in having 2 different campain's and the fact that the arbiter is a co-op player might enhance this thought. Im not posative just a guess.

Campain Choice has been confirmed [http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=thesoundofsack| Bungie news]

No it hasn't. However, the Arbiter is available in co-op. Also, your link is broken.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:50, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Extra grenade? ==

In the E3 2007 trailer; at 0:50 (50 seconds) there is a 1st person view of MC killing a brute with a battle rifle and if you look at his grenades he has 4 types. It's '''not''' equipment (like a shield drainer or bubble shield) because that is displayed under the grenades. Is it known what it is or hasn't Bungie said anything? [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 04:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[[:Image:Screenshoth3e307.png]]

Currenty it's unknown... Hackers found an Agility powerup or piece of equipment, in the beta code, and its speculated that this is it. [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 15:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

:Ok thanks, and at the moment that screenshot needs to be put in an article or it will be deleted (see [[WP:FU]]), sorry to be such a copyright-nut. [[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 01:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

In the next months EGM mag there is a ton of new tHalo 3 info,the 4th grenade is the Flare, a smoke grenade of sorts. There are more new weapons shown too! Gravity Hammer - a shockwave-generating device that's used for close-range attacks and vehicle disruptions. The Mauler - a dual-wield shotgun.[[User:valo_sweet_666|valo_sweet_666]]

:The Flare is a new piece of equipment, similar to the Portable Grav Lift, Power Drainer, and Bubble Shield available in the multiplayer beta. Even in EGM, the fourth grenade remains more of a rumor than anything. "We saw hints of a fourth grenade type, though it never actually appeared in action. Bungie won't give any details on this possible addition--or whether it will even be included in the final game." [[User:Brent Butler|Brent Butler]] [[Special:Contributions/Brent Butler|contribs]][[User talk:Brent Butler|talk]] 16:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

it has been confirmed 2 days ago by bungie that the 4th grenade is the fire grenade. heres link http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12699

== EGM Leak ==

Should that be included? It was leaked on the GameFAQS board and there were quite a few pictures...[[User:Argias|Argias]] 01:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Where is this leak? [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 01:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

On the Halo 3 board on GameFAQS. Just ask them for the stuff and they'll post it. I can't, as I was recently banned.

Link: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=926632&topic=36863163 No pics though... [[User:Argias|Argias]] 04:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oeaFIrBz2vA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9XHxwI_dqEU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MrG93-6AbtI

== ONLINE CO-OP ==

Following reports earlier in the month that online co-operative gameplay was on the verge of not making it in Halo 3, Bungie has today confirmed that the four player Online Co-Op is now confirmed! [[User:Valo sweet 666|Valo sweet 666]] 04:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

They've announced that Player One will play as Master Chief. Player Two will be the Arbiter. Players Three and Four will be elite soldiers. All three will have identical abilities, aside from the starting weapon which will be carbines for the elites instead of the battle rifle which Master Chief will use. Here are some details about those characters directly from Bungie.net:

PLAYER 3 (Sangheili)

Name: N’tho ‘Sraom
Affiliation: Fleet of Retribution/Special Warfare Group/Special Operations
History: N’tho ‘Sraom is the youngest member of his Special Operations unit and is one of a growing number of human sympathizers amongst the Sangheili youth. He is a fairly typical young male adult Sangheili—he began compulsory military service at the end of adolescence, and remains unmarried with no close, non-familial relationships outside of his martial order. N’tho Sraom refused to stand idly by while the Prophets replaced Sangheili units with Jiralhanae packs, and now bears deep resentment toward those Sangheili politicians who landed his kind in their current predicament.

Although N’tho ‘Sraom’s romanticized nationalism is emblematic of all Sangheili, he has developed a healthy respect for humanity—not for their physical abilities or martial prowess, but for their audacity and resolve.

PLAYER 4 (Sangheili)

Name: Usze ‘Taham
Affiliation: Fleet of Retribution/Special Warfare Group/Fleet Security
History: Although Usze ‘Taham was born into a respected merchant family he was fathered by Toha ‘Sumai—one of the preeminent swordfighters of this age. Usze graduated with honors from the top War College in the Iruiru region of Yermo, Sanghelios (a distinction he shares with Rtas 'Vadum). Shortly after receiving his first post within the Covenant Navy he was offered a place on the Prophets’ Honor Guard but he declined citing “lack of practical experience”. In truth, he had no desire to be part of a largely ceremonial unit, and at the end of his third combat tour, Usze ‘Taham again refused the post—even though his superiors warned him such behavior could be misinterpreted as apostasy.

Since that time Usze has evaded countless punitive actions, at least two assassination attempts, and served with distinction for two additional tours before the Schism. Following the dissolution of the Covenant, he was approached by the Ascetics to become one of their liaisons within the Navy.
[[User:Hammet1982|Hammet1982]] 21:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

:If a source is needed, this was stated in the August 1st Bungie podcast. [[User:64.230.63.54|64.230.63.54]] 07:11, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

:: '''''Done''''', added to the article with a citation to the announcement about it on b.net [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

== typo fix ==
{{tl|editprotected}} Gameplay section, third paragraph, first sentence, "were it is most useful" should read "where it is most useful"
:done. [[User:Od Mishehu|Od]] [[User talk:Od Mishehu|Mishehu]] 07:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

== New Information Via EGM Magazine (08/07) ==

=== New Weapons ===

* Mauler- Brute shotgun. Dual-wield.

=== New Equipment ===

* Regenerator- Regenerates shields.
* Flare- Blinds all that view the flash.
* Radar Jammer- Creates fake blips on enemy motion detectors.

is the equipment like bubble-sheild and trip mine available in camapign?[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 13:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

=== New Vehicles ===

* Hornet- Human aerial vehicle. Appears to have vertical takeoff and landing.
* Prowler- Brute vehicle like the Elite Specter.
* Warthog Personel Carrier- Human Warthog with room for soldiers in the back "cab".
* Elephant- Large vehicle that looks like a [[Sandcrawler]]. Moves very slow and is protected by mounted turrets. Houses a spawn point, flag spawn, and flag return.

:: Thats great anonymous user. But unless you fix us up a nice citation using [[Template:Cite_journal]] or [[Template:Citation]], we can't use the info. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

:::I dont have the link from the article because i cant get it at work, but I too have seen this information on the egm.1up.com site. [[User:Xenocide321|Xenocide321]] 18:30, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== More magazine tidbits (Edge 179) ==

Over today, I'll be adding a few new tidbits about Halo 3 to the article from the latest [[Edge (magazine)|Edge]] magazine in the UK. I'll also be adding full cites to bits I add as well, just to make it proper. Please don't worry about this being a leak, or false information. I have the magazine right in front of me, and assuming EDGE themselves didn't get it wrong, it is all correct.

One tidbit that i've just added; there are '''53,595''' pieces of audio in Halo 3, of which '''39,368''' are of NPC dialogue. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

== Million Preorders ==

the news hitting the intertubes today is that there have already been one million copies sold, over a month before release. is this notable enough to put in the article? is it a record of any kind? -anon

:I think so, a mention in the lead section should do saying it's one of the most anticipated games with more than 1 million copies pre-ordered, with a source of course. Speaking of which, I had to go searching to pre-order my legendary edition, they're sold out at so many places now. I had to drive ~30km to find a store that wasn't sold out! (it's a long way considering how many stores there are near me). [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I only preordered the cheapest version of the game... saving the bigs bucks for the GTA4 special edition... Anyway, According to the article now this is or is not a new record for preorders. Someone added a new source showing higher preorders for halo 2. I think it has something to do with how quickly they got to 1 million preorders... I'll be looking for a source, and I'm betting I'll be able to find a source that states 2 Million or more pre-orders for this game by the time the launch finally hits. -anon

== HALO 3 PROMOTION!!! ==

Jesus Christ, scroll down to the bottom. lots of new info regardign the promotion for the game. [[User:Brownstone999|Brownstone999]] 18:19, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

== FLAMETHROWER!!!! ==

[http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812177p1.html] You have to put this in its so sweet!!

Can you find another source to confirm this information by? [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 16:40, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

has been confirmed by bungie [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 03:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

== Legendary Edition image ==

I found a free image of the legendary edition ([[:Image:Halo Legendary Helmet.jpg]]) though I'm not sure where to add it to the article, I think that the "Different versions" section would have too much white space if I were to add it there. Any suggestions, or just go ahead if you have a good idea. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 03:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

== Note ==

It states in weapons that you cannot hide a seconday weapon, however the energy sword in the beta would deactivate after being switched, allowing you to hide it. [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 16:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

:However, it still visibly appeared on the players leg. So its not invisible when you switch like it was in previous games. Thats the point of the sentence in the article. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 09:54, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== Halo 3 Epsilon and new flame weapons ==

I recommend you mention the halo 3 epsilon that is currently active. Bungie has yet to confirm this epsilon but many trustworthy websites have written about it and I have personally seen someone playing the halo 3 epsilon.
Links to some websites:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/812/812230p1.html
http://kotaku.com/gaming/soon/so-whats-halo-3-epsilon-288442.php
http://kotaku.com/gaming/and-nothing-but-the-truth/the-truth-behind-halo-3-epsilon-288565.php
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EElyluyuuASXUMvxWV.php

Regarding the flamethrower and firebomb, these were confirmed by IGN and included an interview with a Bungie employee. "O'Connor confirmed that the gadget (bubble shield) will provide safe haven from fire."It will wash over the shield. It will actually burn on the surface of the shield."

:The Epsilon is just another stage of internal testing. As the article stands theres no real place for it. However, if there was a "development" section, it could be mentioned there. Oh, and firebomb and flamethrower have been added now. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 09:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

== More info on Meta-Game scoring ==

I don't remember where I read it (new EGM I think, but I don't have a copy) but they have released how the meta-game scoring will go. It will be based on things like head-shots, using skulls (which have negative effects), killing mutliple enemies at once, etc. It will essentially work like the stat baords in multiplayer games, but with a point value associated with the different stats and medals as well as some Single-Player only things like using skulls. If anyone has the data on this, I think it would be nice to add to the info for the meta-game since the wording right now is a little weak.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 15:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

: Yes. This is one of the things mentioned in Edge 179 that I meant to update the article with. I don't know about the "killing multiple enemies at once" one, but there are still things that could be added. I'll have a look... [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:24, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::'''Done:''' Well mostly. I reworded most of it, and added info about headshots and speed of progression. Also noting the competitive aspect it introduces to co-op. Oh, plus a quote! [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 15:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

== Post-release cleanup and organization ==

(Just want to get this out of the way) ''[[Halo: Combat Evolved]]'' and ''[[Halo 2]]'' are both [[WP:FA|featured articles]], so ideally I would like this to be as well. Obviously immediately after it's released there won't be enough critical reception (and face it, we'll all be too busy playing the damn game), however I would like to suggest that shortly before the release we shunt a copy of this page to a subpage, perhaps [[/prerelease]] or whatever; that way, we can trash the main page and reorganize it, while still having a copy in the back (to grab details about development, rumors and prerelease info that will be extremely helpful upon release.) Anyone have any objections to this/improvements? [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] <nowiki>(</nowiki>[[User talk:David Fuchs|talk]]<nowiki>)</nowiki> 22:58, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think that would be an excellent way to help develop and refine the article. And I completely agree with you on getting this to FA since CE and 2 are FAs. It'll take time, but all good things do. [[User:Cliff smith|Cliff smith]] 23:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

::I also agree, I was wondering myself what we should do with the current article but that sounds like an excellent idea. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

:::Yeah. Upon release, it will need a significant rewrite. Because a lot of the stuff is listed chronologically and with lots of "will introduce" "was revealed on" etc. Putting a copy of the article on a subpage does seem like a good reference point for developing an FA worthy article. We'll have to decide exactly what needs to be said in regards to things that are covered in the article now, but aren't covered in counter-part on Halo and Halo 2 pages. Because thinks like the current "technology" or "features" (saved films) section, aren't covered at all in many other game articles. But, perhaps they should be?
:::The article as it stands, is still pretty good I would say. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 14:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
::::Yeah, there is nothing about the technology behind the games in the other articles, but also in terms of release marketing and reception- that ''killed'' me when I had to go digging for it at FAC. [[User:David Fuchs|David Fuchs]] <nowiki>(</nowiki>[[User talk:David Fuchs|talk]]<nowiki>)</nowiki> 15:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::Um, whats FAC? [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 15:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

::::::[[WP:FAC]] = Featured article candidates, but it's often referred to as the process of "putting an article through FAC" as in nominating and responding to the discussion. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::: Ah, thought it might be. Just had to check. Thanks [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

==Vague, POV wording here==
I don't like how the following passage was worded. No citation is given and we are not even told which 2 weapons the author found to be the only useful ones in the original Halo. For one, I used every weapon in Halo, and in multi-player I used the Sniper-Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun frequently like many players. Since this ungrounded bias reads like a POV sales pitch for the new game, I'd like to have this sentence rewritten please:

The idea of "balance" (at least in multiplayer) is that each specific weapon or piece of equipment has specific areas where it is most useful, and others where it falls far short. No matter what combination of weapons a player chooses (players are ''''famously'' limited only two choices of weapons in Halo''), there will be situations in which they have an advantage, and others in which they have a disadvantage. The result is that there is no one weapon/vehicle that is overwhelmingly the best overall choice for whatever type of situation they may encounter.
--[[User:Charizardpal|Charizardpal]] 20:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

: I wrote that. I was trying to explain the bit about "the balance of weapons..has been altered." Perhaps it seems a little out of context now. It orgininally did say at the end "(such as the M6D in the first Halo)" however someonce decided that wasn't needed and removed it. It still holds true, I feel. If you didn't know what was coming. You'd choose an M6D and the most powerful weapon you could find.
:Now, probably, it does need a rewrite. Though I don't know what could be said. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

::"Only two weapons at any one time" might fit better? [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

== New Toy ==

Speaking of new toys, apparantly Wired magazine confirms a new weapon. Wasn't sure where to post this, but the URL is here...

http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/15-09/ff_halo?currentPage=4

And apparantly describes another turret-type weapon that's covenant based called the Plasma Turret. Does someone want to put this where it needs to go?

-Uwasa

:This is simply a redesign of the existing portable plasma turret. i.e. the one without the shield on the front. Whats new is that it is detachable like the human turret, and the weapon looks more impressive to reflect its powerful nature. [[User:157.174.221.167|157.174.221.167]] 19:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

::Just wanted to add that this turret can be seen in action in the HALO 3 videos form this years PAX. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] ([[User talk:157.174.221.168|talk]]) 20:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 

I was surfing the GameStop website, when I came accross a few more limited editions of another very cool, but some-what pointless Halo 3 extras. Im sure you all know about the SPARTAN and Elite controlers, and the Halo 3 wireless head-set. The 2 new items are the MadCatz Xbox 360 Halo 3 Faceplate/Skin Pack, and the SPNKr Missle cass. Yea that's right, a SPNKr missle cass (the missle ammo pick-ups from the games). From the picture, it looks like it can hold one controller and a wired-headset (or, maybe 2 controllers) and it looks like it has room for 5 CDs. The missle cass is only available online, so dont go to the store looking for one.

The links for the 2 new extras, respectively

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802715

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=802720

: - that missle case thingy is pretty cool, very original halo memorabeila —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|22:51:47, August 19, 2007 (UTC)}}} 

[[User:Gundam94|Gundam94]] 17:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

== Female Voice ==

I know this feature has been confirmed by Bungie, but has anyone seen anything about when you ever hear it? Those that are familiar with Halo know that the characters voice is never really used in multi. Its just not very clear in the article why having a female voice option matters. The way its written sounds like you speak through character voices instead of just using the xbox live headset and may be misleading to those unfamiliar with the game.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 18:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Its there for when the player dies, you will hear a female scream istead of male. .[[User:Valo sweet 666|Valo sweet 666]] 17 August 2007 (UTC)

:I would have thought it would be the voice that says "double kill" or "flag taken" etc. That would make a more noticable difference that would probably be worth mentioning in a weekly update but then again I'm just speculating. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 03:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

It is when you hear the player die in MultiPlayer. You will never hear it during the campaign, and it does not change the voice of the announcer.--Tyguy92 17:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

:I think its the 'voice mask' that is going to be female or male. they did this because of the increasing amount of female gamers, so it wouldnt be sexist that the only voice mask you could get would be one of a male voice. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Leemyster|Leemyster]] ([[User talk:Leemyster|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Leemyster|contribs]]) 13:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC) 

The female voice that bungie has added will be used when your character is meleed, in halo 2 your character would "grunt" so to speak. now, you can change that grunt to a shriek, it does not change your voice masking, the voice of the announcer, or any other game unrelated aspects, its simply an aesthetic change. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.126.243.32|70.126.243.32]] ([[User talk:70.126.243.32|talk]]) 02:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

== IGN Q&A with Bungie ==

I recently added a quote from Tyson Green of Bungie Studios from a Q/A session at IGN.com. The rest of the interview may have some info that could verify and/or supplement what's already here. [[User:Cliff smith|Cliff smith]] 18:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

== Bubble Shield Issue ==

Correct me if I'm worng but as I remember from the Beta, from within the bubble shield you can still fire outwards. If I'm completely wrong, just disregard this. —The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|63.164.202.130}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|13:08, August 23, 2007 (UTC)}}} 

:No, you can't, it prevents fire both ways. When the beta was available I would approach a bubble and throw a grenade inside. It contains the explosion and pretty much guarantees a kill if there's anyone inside it. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 13:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

::The new stationary shield has a slit you can fire through though. I believe it was confirmed in the EGM issue, but I could be wrong.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:30, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

== NEW HALO 3 BLOW OUT ON IGN.COM!!! ==

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/815/815041p1.html

wow, there is so much info we can add on this article. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 21:12, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Quite, I read all the way through it, but not as much as one would think. A case of it says alot without telling us much. There is some useful info there, just alotta waffle around it.[[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 20:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

you phail, there is plenty of info to add due to that link [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:43, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Not that I see. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 05:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks like mostly the same stuff to me [[User:74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] 02:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC) [[User:The Shroud]]

== Listing ==
For the weapons, maps, equipment, etc., you guys should start listing the confirmed ones and put them in a list instead of the little article that only summerizes a couple of tidbits of information. It's only a month away from Sept. 25 and Bungie and alot of other websites (IGN, 1up, etc.) have confirmed a bunch of other stuff. We should start a list soon. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{IP|{{{User|70.188.113.218}}}}}}|talk]]) {{{Time|22:07, August 24, 2007 (UTC)}}} 
:Wikipedia is not a list. We already had that, but it was eliminated because it was unencyclopedic. [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 05:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

::And it was huge. the olde "confirmed elements" section practically took over the whole article. And there are plenty of other sites that will list every weapon and vehicle and map etc. Wikipedia doesn't need to [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== PC Version ==

Please don't attack me for asking this (as I'm afraid Xbox fans will do) but what is the current possibility of a PC version being released or done? They have released a PC version for both the original and Halo 2, are they planning to do the same with Halo 3? Just wondering if anyone knew anything about it and therefore it could be added to the article. [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 07:52, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

:There hasn't been any word of a Halo 3 PC as far as I know, but as you said, the previous 2 had PC versions released later so it's likely there will be some day. There is no confirmation by Bungie or Microsoft though so it can't be added to the article. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 08:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

::Again if the last 2 were released you can expect the same of this one. BUT, the first one wasn't released until just prior to xbox Halo 2 coming out, and Halo2 PC is just now coming out. I wouldn't just hold out for the PC version if I were you because it will be a while, and it'll be pretty outdated by then for PC standards.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:27, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

:Seems I'll have to wait for it on the PC, though. [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 20:23, 29 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

Yes, but likely not to long, from what i hear. Deal with it and find a friend with a 360 until it comes out...
I want it for PC too [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 00:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

See this article http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=170224&skip=yes [[User:72.49.194.69|72.49.194.69]] 00:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC) Joshua

:It will be a few years before the PC version comes out. MS isn't that dumb since this is one of their biggest system sellers.[[User:157.174.221.169|157.174.221.169]] 19:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, a PC version is not being made as of yet. Bungie have already said they want to get the 360 version out before even considering it. But, since the other two were, you can be fairly certain it will eventually come to PC (ahem, Vista). [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:11, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

== in EGM's latest issue, they gave Halo's AI the "best AI" on the showroom floor ==

This should be included when talking about the AI in the game. Keep in mind that EGM only does console stuff though. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.117.224.11|71.117.224.11]] ([[User talk:71.117.224.11|talk]]) 01:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Burning wood? ==

I saw a vid where the wooden pallets burned, but it cut off early so i don't know [[User:The Shroud]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.245.38.202|74.245.38.202]] ([[User talk:74.245.38.202|talk]]) 02:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC) 

What vid? do you have a link? [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 17:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

== Gold ==

What does 'gone gold' actually mean in terms of video games? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 16:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC) 

:Gone gold generally means that it it is certidied Golden master, e.g. it's ready for production then shipment. Gold is he last thing a game is certified before it is released to the people that make all those DVDs, who then pass it on to the store lines and such. [[User:!Darkfire!6'28'14|The Walkin Dude]] 17:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

::Just a note to clarify, "gone gold" has nothing to do with sales numbers like it does in the music industry. The master copies of optical discs were traditionally (and sometimes still are) gold colored due to the material they were made from and with no real marketing purpose.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== 1up's daily coverage ==

Today there is supposed to be an update but when i went to the website, it was still locked and the date said 9/03/07. Anyone know what time they unlock those? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 14:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC) 
:Check again. It's there now.--[[User:Roeas|Roeas]] 00:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Canadian Money ==

hey can you guys put the prices of the halo 3 game version in Canadian too. If you do thanks. :)[[User:68.145.77.173|68.145.77.173]] 23:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Legendary only available in ... ==

I removed the text "The legendary edition is currently only available in North America and Brazil." because it's unsourced and not true. Why Brazil & not UK? Besides, I live in Australia and have pre-ordered the Legendary without any problems. If there's a source listing the places that the Legendary Edition is available, by all means add the info, but make sure it's reliable. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

== Havok Engine ==

In the box in the top right corner of the page, where it says which Game Engine is used, shouldn't the Havok Engine be listed as well as the Halo Engine, since Havok is used for physics calculation?--[[User:Roeas|Roeas]] 00:36, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
:I'm not sure, on some articles it states the game engine they use, including all the various physics engines, on others it doesn't. I don't see why you can't put it there.[[User:The Lord Of The Crayons|The Lord Of The Crayons]] 00:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

== Sony, Stay Off Wikipedia ==

Honestly, [http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/09/04/sony-tries-to-secretly-wiki-diss-halo-3-and-fails/ doesn’t Sony have anything better to do?] Trying to edit the Halo 3 Wikipedia page? Didn’t they even know their ISP would be caught? Even if they attempted this from a home ISP, the rules in Wikipedia are fairly clear on speculative, source-less entries, much less weasel-worded opinions. Plus, Sony apparently hasn’t learned good grammar, since they capitalized after a comma.

Maybe Sony should be concentrating on its own software than trying to clumsily sling mud anonymously. [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 18:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sony must have gone crazy. Caught vandalizing rival product article. What an insult for themselves. Its already a hot news out there.--[[User:R.iqbal|R.iqbal]] 18:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I love Halo, but you you guys sound like idiots when you say "sony did this, sony did that." Did you ever stop to consider maybe it was just an employee there. Whether you'd like to beleive it or not, Sony is not stupid, and they did not get to the top of consumer electronics by making dumb marketing moves. If Sony wanted to discredit Halo, I'm sorry, but they would not change the wikipedia entry on it. What would that accomplish. Stop acting like victims, grow up, and think the situation through.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

...Are you serious? If they didn't want to be held accountable they should have done it from a different computer. It doesn't matter whether it was an employee or not, they still are held accountable due to it being done from their IP. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/153.90.68.64|153.90.68.64]] ([[User talk:153.90.68.64|talk]]) 02:49, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

:my dad works at bungie (his name is frank o'connor) and he gave me halo 3 for my birthday last year and Sony is wrong. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Goatsmoke|Goatsmoke]] ([[User talk:Goatsmoke|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Goatsmoke|contribs]]) 07:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

It is obviously done by some sony employee. But who cares, it's from sony so its done by sony. The mud have been spilled and its sony sony who is disgraced in the end. People are making fun of sony everywhere from game forums to news articles. I assume MS is loughing like hell seeing this news all over the place.--[[User:R.iqbal|R.iqbal]] 07:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::I'd like to request that this discussion ends. Unless it is being discussed as to enter this information in the article or not, this talk page is [[WP:FORUM|not a forum]] for discussion about the article's topic. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 08:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Heh. How is this unrelated to editing the Halo 3 article? (wink) [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 17:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
::::Heck, this is one of the few points on the talk page directly relating to the editing of the article! [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] 22:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Saying that "Sony is embarrassed seeing this news all over the place" is a complete exaggeration. Sure, a few people who read news on gaming sites may be laughing, but most regular gamers never heard of the story. I didn't hear about it until this discussion. It's not real news unless the AP or Reuters picks it up, otherwise, it's just a confirmed internet rumor that will be chuckled at by the few who read gaming news sites.(Excluding game reviews, these are more widely read.)--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 22:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it is all over the place. This is the internet after all and news like this travels like wildfire. The article from Vnunet has been linked on several forums I visit.[[User:Yasgur|Yasgur]] 03:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:I also want to request that this discussion end. This page is [[WP:FORUM|not a forum]] to discuss why someone from a Sony-related IP edited [[Halo 3]]. This page is for discussing how to improve the article. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 04:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Bearing that thought in mind. I find that the little section concerning Sony 'vandalizing Wikipedia's article to not show neutrality in the subject in mind. <blockquote>For As of September 04, 2007 an internet technology and news site reported that a wikipedia user posted under the graphics section that Halo 3 would have graphics only marginally better than Halo 2. This news site determined that the user had posted from the Liverpool office of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE).[46] Undoubtedly, this was an attempt to downplay the upcoming release of the hotly anticipated title.
</blockquote>

I feel that last sentence or perhaps the whole article should be re-evaluated to seem more neutral then a POV of some halo fan's. Don't get me wrong I am a great fan of Halo but I don't think it seems proper to bash sony on Wikipedia and claim at the end Halo is Awesome. This is what I am getting when I read this article. [[User:24.226.195.58|24.226.195.58]] 13:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
:A little off-topic but saying its a "hotly anticipated title" and stating that its rightfully hotly aniticipated are two different things. I don't think anyone would argue that it is very highly anticipated.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
::The preorder numbers (projected minimum $172M on first day), the Madame Tussounds wax figure, the hype, the commercials, etc - it's hotly anticipated. [[User:JAF1970|JAF1970]] 04:22, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Considering that the PS3 is a failure, Sony seems to be getting increasingly desperate. What a shame. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.110.26.86|24.110.26.86]] ([[User talk:24.110.26.86|talk]]) 03:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 

yes, i agree. sony is scared witless of halo 3, b/c they know that it will knock them out when it comes out[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 11:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

== Different Editions Omission ==

There missing a difference between the editions. Both the Limited and the Legendary editions come with an "HD Calibration Disk". This was briefly noted on the bungie website. This is a Halo 3 themed disk that will help to Calibrate your HDTV to get the best picture.
[[User:69.158.17.235|69.158.17.235]] 01:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)Jason M - TO

:I could be wrong, but I beleive it is available to everyone with an Xbox Live Silver or Gold membership now. Do some research into it if you want, I'm sure the Bungie forum will be glad to help once they stop posting "phail". Sorry for the rant, but that forum is one of the most immature I've ever been in.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::As far as I know, that tool is on the "Interactive Xbox 360 Disc." So is with the limited and legendary versions. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Well regardless as to whether its on xbox live, it should be mentioned if it also comes on the disc. Since only like 50% (i think it was) of xbox owners are on live, it would be good info for them. Also, 4chans boards are by far and away more immature than Bungies.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

== addition to weapons section ==

it should be noted under the weapons section that the covenant needler can no longer be dual wielded due to a significant power increase.

:Okay, go ahead and make the change. You don't need permission to add info to the entry, that's your right. If formatting of grammar is not right, someone will make the change for you until you learn.--[[User:Tyguy92|TyGuy92]] 02:30, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::Well, by all means make the edit. But, we don't want to be "game guidey" describing all the changes to every single weapon in the game. The overall statement "with minor power and cosmetic changes" is fine I believe. The needler is still the needler and just has different power. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 12:53, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

== Why are the graphics not much better? ==
The graphics in this game are disappointing. They have a good replay/cutscene engine but the real gameplay engine looks only slightly better than Halo2.

Halo3
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/734/734817/img_4818511.html

Halo2
http://media.pc.ign.com/media/804/804393/img_4486727.html

Yes it is a fair comparison even if its the PC version of Halo2 because both are running in high resolution. Seems bungie went lazy on this one and didn't bother to spend the development time to improve the engine to the best of the systems abilities. Like Halo and Halo2, Halo3 is sure to have frame rate issues and even worse when in split screen.
[[User:Vietone|Vietone]] 13:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

have either of u guys seen the halo 3 single player thing? i mean, the graphics blew me away. if u say its not better than halo 2, i dont thuink u payed attantion. the betes werent that great, but there u go: BETA [[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:(facepalm) Haven't you noticed by now that the graphics in multiplayer are not going to be as good as the ones in singleplayer? That's because they matter less in multiplayer than they do in singleplayer, which is where the real shininess is going to go. This: [/media/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Halo_3_online_co-op.jpg] is a far better example of Halo 3's graphics, and that itself may or may not be the final build. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Peptuck|Peptuck]] ([[User talk:Peptuck|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Peptuck|contribs]]) 15:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC) 

::If you look carefully, there are vast improvements. Halo 2 had visible polygons, whereas Halo 3's polygons are tiny. There weren't really framerate issues in Halo 1 or 2 unless you made a lot of blood on the ground. Though NTSC may differ from PAL-60 in this case. Still, I don't think there's anything bad about the graphics, sure Halo was never a game with amazing graphics but they aren't bad. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 08:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:Well, the action does (supposedly) take place in much larger areas. And there is more going on and more enemies on screen at once. So theres two reasons. Plus, i believe, a lot of the beauty of the game is in its subtlety. the bloom isn't overdone, the lighting it soft were it needs to be, things that are supposed to be natural look natural. textures convery the surface of an object without getting in your face. Oh, and PCs have FAR more RAM than the 360. So even in H2V, they can have higher res textures in some cases. :Plus, who said there would be framerate issues? All accounts so far point to a very stable framerate in Halo 3. While H1 and H2 had some framerate issues, i've seen games with far worse issues in that regard. Oh, and Halo 3 had a much longer "polish" period at the end of development than halo 2, and certainly longer than H1. All signs seem good.
:Besides, the talk page is for the article, until we have some proper commentary (ie reviews) about how much the graphics suck or not, theres no reason to talk about it. [[User:RC Master|RC Master]] 13:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

::I agree, this is an article talk page and we should be discussing the article, not the game. I got a bit sidetracked. Please let's keep it on-topic from now. [[User:James086|James086]][[User talk:James086|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/James086|Email]] 23:52, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

:::To keep on topic about the article, we should really remove that pic of High Ground or at least mention that the screenshot is from the Beta and NOT the final build and thus not representative of the actual in-game graphics. Bungie has said many times that many graphical settings were turned down or off for the beta. For instance, if someone wishes to dig through their site, they said that there was absolutely not Anti-aliasing in the Beta, and turning that on will help greatly. The purpose of the Beta was to test the gameplay and the online functions, not the graphics engine.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 20:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

==Xbox 360 Achievements==
Hi, I wanted to add a link to a list of the Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3 in the External Links section on the Halo 3 page, but the page is protected. I was going to add this link: *[http://gaming.wikia.com/index.php?title=Xbox_360_Achievements:_Halo_3 A list of Xbox 360 Achievements for Halo 3]. Can someone help me with this? --[[User:UaneReade|UaneReade]] 14:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
:Wikipedia generally frowns on Lists and info that is considered [[fancruft]] or game-guide like material instead of the type of stuff you'd find in an encyclopedia.(I always forget to sign)[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 14:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Picture ==

For the 2 beta pictures, can you at least mention it's from the beta, you did good on the other picture mentiong it's a work in progress, you might as well mention that the beta pics are from the beta, now seeing that was like 6 months ago. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.38.203.115|72.38.203.115]] ([[User talk:72.38.203.115|talk]]) 02:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 
:It doesn't really matter, does it?--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 02:33, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

yes, it does. since it is a beta or work-in-progress still, it needs to ber known that it is not the final product[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 11:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
:If you feel so strongly about it, you can add it in yourself--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 19:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

== Old Maps ==
Will their be any multiplayer maps from Halo 1 or Halo 2 that will be in Halo 3 other than Last Resort (Zanzibar)? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.188.113.218|70.188.113.218]] ([[User talk:70.188.113.218|talk]]) 23:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 
:The game isn't out yet, so who knows. Also, the talk page is to discuss the article, not the game itself--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 01:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
::Agreed with above. If you can phrase it in a way that is more encyclopedic and not so game-forum-esque, it could be added. Oh and to answer your question, Lockout has also been remade with a jungle theme and can be seen in the videos from PAX.[[User:157.174.221.168|157.174.221.168]] 14:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== RV please ==

I would rv the current verison myself but I'm an IP. I can't belvie no one noticed this.--[[User:71.170.106.104|71.170.106.104]] 02:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== in EGM's latest issue, they gave Halo's AI the "best AI" on the showroom floor ==

[[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 02:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
this topic was already here[[User:Darthblaze99|Darthblaze99]] 14:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

== Auctions ==

idk if anyone noticed this, but there's a lot of confusion abt these 2 ebay auctions, u can check the halo.bungie.org site to find out the details, but i'm surprisd no1 posted about it yet.after checking it out, wat do u ppl think, real or not?[[http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=832934]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Discopete117|Discopete117]] ([[User talk:Discopete117|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Discopete117|contribs]]) 21:29, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 

== Halo 3 is selling on Ebay, add this in ==

Halo 3 is selling on Ebay, add this in [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 23:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

i already did, look at auctions, i'v also got a link where people discuss it so just delete it[[User:Discopete117|Discopete117]] 00:54, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

No you didin't. THe word "ebay" or "auction" is not mentioned once. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 02:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:The part about this eBay auction is poorly formatted and place haphazardly in the middle of the article, if it is to stay, it needs to be fixed. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

::This is the exact text that was in the article. I am removing the text from the article temporarily until it can be cleaned up and a better location found for it within the text of the article:

"- ===Ebay Leek and kids getting banned for life===
- - - - - - THe game is selling on Ebay right now, and kids are also getting banned for life by playin halo 3 right now
- - - - -
- - - - - Source: http://news.filefront.com/halo-3-available-on-ebay/
- - - - -
- - - - - source: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=halo+3+ban"

[[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Look if you guys don't like it, then fix it yourself. But you can't remove it yourself and not fix it. So either fix it yourself, or don't mess with it [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 03:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

==3RR==
Refering to the [[WP:3RR|three revert rule]], please use this discussion to determine the fate of the eBay leak portion of the article, rather than remove and re-add the content repeatedly. [[User:Useight|Useight]] 03:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Well, it can be reworded, as you said above--[[User talk:SUIT|'''$U''''''IT''']] 03:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
So? If you don't like it, then fix it. Don't remove it. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::So... I removed it, per [[WP:NOT#NEWS]]. And it will continue to be removed, this is not a news service nor is a forum to announce cruft like this. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Spigot your logic is flawed, if something is leeked onto the internet it does go on wikipedia. Try again [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
::Only if said leak can be classified as a [[WP:RS|reliable source]].--[[User:Yeti Hunter|Yeti Hunter]] 04:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I did provide a source. Hell, just go to google news and type "halo 3 ebay" and you'll get results. Like I said, don't even attempt to think to remove this from the page, if you have trouble with the spelling and what not then fix it, don't just blatantly remove it though. [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
:Thanks for not writing [[WP:Civil|civily]]. Please READ the wikilinks we have provided and you will see why it will not be included until it is confirmed and reported by a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. [[User:SpigotMap|Spigot]][[User talk:SpigotMap|Map]] 04:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

: Might be notable to note that 1) this does not deserve to be before all other sections of the article; 2) unless you provide a '''specific''' credible source, such information should not be added to Wikipedia; and 3) as according to the comment posted in the article, please '''do not''' repeatedly insert your snippet over and over again, until this is issue is resolved on the talk page. [[User:Stryik|Stryik]] 04:20, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

== Aussie Halo 3 hits eBay ==

Full retail PAL version of the game leaked.

Right here, IGN.COM - http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/819/819245p1.html

If you argue with the notablitiy of IGN.com you are tremoundously un-informed [[User:Duff man2007|Duff man2007]] 04:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)