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User talk:180.232.70.82

2024-02-02T01:35:32Z

HelixxUnderscore: Note: Editing tests (UV 0.1.5)

== December 2019 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:CASSIOPEIA|CASSIOPEIA]]. I wanted to let you know that I reverted one of [[Special:Contributions/180.232.70.82|your recent contributions]] —specifically [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yeo%20Jin-goo&diff=930227629 this edit] to [[:Yeo Jin-goo]]—because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the [[Wikipedia:Help desk|Help desk]]. Thanks. [[User:CASSIOPEIA| CASSIOPEIA]]([[User talk:CASSIOPEIA|talk]]) 02:10, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
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== February 2024 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]]. An edit that you recently made to [[:Tagalog]] seemed to be a test and has been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you want to practice editing, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on [[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|my talk page]]. Thanks! [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 01:35, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
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Tagalog

2024-02-02T01:35:17Z

HelixxUnderscore: Reverting edit(s) by 180.232.70.82 (talk) to rev. 1157373801 by ShelfSkewed: Test edits (UV 0.1.5)

{{wiktionary|Tagalog}}
'''Tagalog''' may refer to:

==Language==
* [[Tagalog language]], a language spoken in the Philippines
** [[Old Tagalog]], an archaic form of the language
** [[Batangas Tagalog]], a dialect of the language
* [[Tagalog script]], the writing system historically used for Tagalog, also known as Baybayin
** [[Tagalog (Unicode block)]], character encodings for computers

==Other==
* [[Tagalog people]], a major ethnic group in the Philippines
* [[Southern Tagalog]], a region in southern Luzon that is the heartland of the Tagalog people
* [[Tagalog Republic]] or ''Katagalugan'', revolutionary governments during the Philippine Revolution
* [[Tagalog War]], another name for the Philippine Revolution
* [[Tagalog (beetle)|''Tagalog'' (beetle)]], a genus of beetles in the subfamily [[Prioninae]]

{{disambiguation}}
[[Category:Language and nationality disambiguation pages]]

User talk:110.54.128.187

2024-02-02T01:34:04Z

HelixxUnderscore: Unconstructive editing (UV 0.1.5)

== February 2024 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/110.54.128.187|your recent contributions]], such as the edit(s) you made to [[:Binibining Pilipinas 2022]], did not appear to be constructive and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|policies and guidelines]]. You can find information about these at our [[Help:Getting started|welcome page]] which also provides further information about [[Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia|contributing constructively to this encyclopedia]]. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]] for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on [[User_talk:HelixxUnderscore|my talk page]]. Thank you. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 01:34, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
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Binibining Pilipinas 2022

2024-02-02T01:32:55Z

HelixxUnderscore: Reverting edit(s) by 110.54.128.187 (talk) to rev. 1200682319 by Allyriana000: Non-constructive edit (UV 0.1.5)

{{Short description|58th Binibining Pilipinas pageant}}
{{Use Philippine English|date=August 2022}}
{{Use mdy dates|date=December 2021}}
{{Infobox beauty pageant
| name = Binibining Pilipinas 2022
| photo= Nicole Borromeo (cropped).jpg
| image size=
| photo size=
| image alt=
| photo alt=
| caption=[[Nicole Borromeo]], Binibining Pilipinas International 2022
| date= July 31, 2022
| presenters= {{Hlist|[[Catriona Gray]]|[[Nicole Cordoves]]|[[Edward Barber (actor)|Edward Barber]]|[[Samantha Bernardo]]}}
| hosts=
| entertainment= {{Hlist|[[SB19]]|[[Maymay Entrata]]}}
|venue = [[Smart Araneta Coliseum]], [[Quezon City]], [[Metro Manila]], Philippines
| broadcaster={{Hlist|[[A2Z (Philippine TV channel)|A2Z]]|[[TV5 (Philippine TV network)|TV5]]}}
| entrants= 40
| withdrawals = {{Hlist|[[Angeles City|Angeles, Pampanga]]|[[Pampanga]]|[[Pangasinan]]}}
| placements= 12
| best national costume = Graciella Lehmann [[Oriental Mindoro]]
| photogenic = [[Yllana Aduana|Yllana Marie Aduana]] [[Laguna, Philippines|Laguna]]
| congeniality = Eiffel Rosalita [[Catanduanes]]
| winner='''[[Nicole Borromeo]]'''
| represented='''[[Cebu]]'''
| before = [[Binibining Pilipinas 2021|2021]]
| opening trailer = "Win Your Heart" [[SB19]]
| next = [[Binibining Pilipinas 2023|2023]]
}}

'''Binibining Pilipinas 2022''' was the 58th edition of [[Binibining Pilipinas]]. It took place at the [[Araneta Coliseum|Smart Araneta Coliseum]] in [[Quezon City]], [[Metro Manila]], Philippines on July 31, 2022.<ref>{{cite web |last=Bracamonte |first=Earl D.C. |date=7 February 2022 |title=Miss Supranational still with Miss World PH, new Binibining Pilipinas pageant season opens |url=https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2022/02/07/2159168/miss-supranational-still-miss-world-ph-new-binibining-pilipinas-pageant-season-opens |access-date=9 February 2022 |website=[[Philippine Star]]}}</ref>

At the end of the event, [[Hannah Arnold (beauty queen)|Hannah Arnold]] crowned [[Nicole Borromeo]] of [[Cebu]] as [[Miss International|Binibining Pilipinas International 2022]]; [[Cinderella Obeñita]] crowned [[Gabrielle Camille Basiano|Gabrielle Basiano]] of [[Borongan]], Eastern Samar, as Binibining Pilipinas Intercontinental 2022; [[Maureen Montagne]] crowned [[Chelsea Fernandez]] of [[Tacloban]] as Binibining Pilipinas Globe 2022; and, Samantha Panlilio crowned [[Roberta Tamondong]] of [[San Pablo, Laguna]] as [[Miss Grand International 2022|Binibining Pilipinas Grand International 2022]]. [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]] of [[Angono]], [[Rizal (province)|Rizal]] was named 1st Runner-Up, and Stacey Gabriel of [[Cainta, Rizal]] was named 2nd Runner-Up.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Purnell |first=Kristofer |date=1 August 2022 |title=LIST: Binibining Pilipinas 2022 winners, special awards |url=https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2022/08/01/2199055/list-binibining-pilipinas-2022-winners-special-awards |access-date=1 August 2022 |website=[[Philippine Star]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news |last1=Adina |first1=Armin P. |last2=Pasajol |first2=Anne |date=1 August 2022 |title=Binibining Pilipinas 2022 crowns its new queens |url=https://entertainment.inquirer.net/458947/binibining-pilipinas-2022-crowns-its-new-queens |access-date=1 August 2022 |newspaper=[[Philippine Daily Inquirer]] |language=en}}</ref>

On August 29, 2022, Wilbert Tolentino, talent manager of [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]], brought the rights of Miss Planet Philippines. Budol was appointed as Miss Planet Philippines 2022.<ref>{{Cite web |date=29 August 2022 |title=Herlene Budol to compete in Miss Planet International 2022, says manager |url=https://news.abs-cbn.com/life/08/29/22/herlene-budol-to-compete-in-miss-planet-international |access-date=29 August 2022 |website=[[ABS-CBN News]]}}</ref> This was also the last year of Binibining Pilipinas Grand International title to be under [[Binibining Pilipinas]] after the franchise of Miss Grand Philippines will be transferred to a new organization.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Severo |first=Jan Milo |date=8 November 2022 |title=Binibining Pilipinas officially drops Miss Grand International |url=https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2022/11/08/2222333/binibining-pilipinas-officially-drops-miss-grand-international |access-date=11 November 2022 |website=[[Philippine Star]] |language=en}}</ref>

[[ABS-CBN]] broadcast the coronation night via [[Kapamilya Channel]] and free-to-air channels [[A2Z (Philippine TV channel)|A2Z]] and [[TV5 (Philippine TV network)|TV5]]. The pageant was also simulcast on ABS-CBN's [[Metro Channel]] and livestreamed on [[iWantTFC]] and [[YouTube]]. The competition was hosted by [[Nicole Cordoves]], [[Catriona Gray]], [[Samantha Bernardo]] and [[Edward Barber (actor)|Edward Barber]].<ref>{{Cite web |last=Bracamonte |first=Earl D.C. |date=12 July 2022 |title=Catriona Gray, Nicole Cordoves continue historic feat as all-female Binibining Pilipinas hosts |url=https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2022/07/12/2194861/catriona-gray-nicole-cordoves-continue-historic-feat-all-female-binibining-pilipinas-hosts |access-date=10 August 2022 |website=[[Philippine Star]] |language=en}}</ref>

== Background ==

=== Selection of participants ===
40 contestants were chosen during the final screening which was held at the [[New Frontier Theater]] last April 22, 2022. On April 25, 2022, the contestants were given their official numbers and was asked what city/province will they represent. The date of their official sashing ceremony will be announced on a later date.<ref>{{Cite web |last= |first= |date=April 26, 2022 |title=Binibining Pilipinas 2022 presents the Top 40 with their official numbers |url=https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/lifestyle/content/829716/binibining-pilipinas-2022-presents-the-top-40-with-their-official-numbers/story/ |access-date=April 27, 2022 |website=[[GMA News Online]] |language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Bracamonte |first=Earl |date=April 23, 2022 |title='Hipon Girl' Herlene Budol enters Binibining Pilipinas 2022 top 40; full list of candidates |url=https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2022/04/23/2176193/hipon-girl-herlene-budol-enters-binibining-pilipinas-2022-top-40-full-list-candidates |access-date=April 23, 2022 |website=[[Philippine Star]]}}</ref>

On April 27, 2022, Binibining Pilipinas officially announced the withdrawal of three candidates: Gwendoline Meliz Soriano of [[Pangasinan]], [[Francesca Taruc|Maria Francesca Taruc]] of [[Angeles City, Pampanga]], and Iman Franchesca Cristal of [[Pampanga]]. The three candidates where then replaced by Patricia Ann Tan, Maria Isabela David, and Joanna Rabe.<ref>{{Cite web |date=April 27, 2022 |title=Bb. Pilipinas updates 2022 roster after withdrawal of 3 candidates |url=https://news.abs-cbn.com/life/04/27/22/bb-pilipinas-updates-roster-as-3-candidates-withdraw |access-date=April 28, 2022 |website=[[ABS-CBN News]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Severo |first=Jan Milo |date=April 28, 2022 |title=3 Binibining Pilipinas candidates withdraw; Hipon Girl is Binibini no. 8 |url=https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2022/04/28/2177409/3-binibining-pilipinas-candidates-withdraw-hipon-girl-binibini-no-8 |access-date=April 29, 2022 |website=[[Philippine Star]]}}</ref>

== Results ==
;Color keys

* {{Color box|#FFFF66|border=darkgray}} The contestant was a Runner-Up in an International pageant.
* {{Color box|#FFFACD|border=darkgray}} The contestant was a Semi-Finalist in an International pageant.

{| class="wikitable sortable" style="font-size: 95%;"
! Placement<ref>{{Cite news |last=Pasajol
|first=Anne |date=31 July 2022 |title=Binibining Pilipinas 2022 names top 12 finalists |url=https://entertainment.inquirer.net/458945/binibining-pilipinas-2022-names-top-12-finalists |access-date=1 August 2022 |newspaper=[[Philippine Daily Inquirer]] |language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |date=1 August 2022 |title=Cebu's Nicole Borromeo is Binibining Pilipinas International 2022 |url=https://www.rappler.com/entertainment/pageants/cebu-nicole-borromeo-winner-binibining-pilipinas-international-2022/ |access-date=1 August 2022 |website=[[Rappler]] |language=en-US}}</ref>
!Contestant
!International Placement
|- style="background:#FFFF66;"
|Binibining Pilipinas International 2022
|
* Bb. #23 '''[[Cebu]]''' – '''[[Nicole Borromeo]]'''
|{{center|3rd Runner-Up – [[Miss International 2023]]}}
|- style="background:#FFFACD;"
|Binibining Pilipinas Intercontinental 2022
|
* Bb. #28 '''[[Borongan|Borongan, Eastern Samar]]''' – '''[[Gabrielle Basiano]]'''
|{{center|Top 20 – Miss Intercontinental 2022}}
|- style="background:#FFFACD;"
|Binibining Pilipinas Globe 2022
|
* Bb. #17 '''[[Tacloban]]''' – '''[[Chelsea Fernandez]]'''
|{{center|Top 15 - The Miss Globe 2022}}
|- style="background:#FFFF66;"
|Binibining Pilipinas Grand International 2022
|
* Bb. #40 '''[[San Pablo, Laguna]]''' – '''[[Roberta Tamondong]]'''
|{{center|5th Runner-Up – [[Miss Grand International 2022]]}}
|-
|1st Runner-Up
|
* Bb. #8 '''[[Angono|Angono, Rizal]]''' – [[Herlene Budol|'''Nicole Budol''']] ''{{small|(Appointed as Miss Planet Philippines 2022)}}''
| {{center|''Withdrew – Miss Planet International 2022''}}
|-
|2nd Runner-Up
|
* Bb. #1 [[Cainta|Cainta, Rizal]] – Stacey Gabriel
|-
|Top 12
|
* Bb. #5 [[Iloilo City]] – Karen Mendoza
* Bb. #25 [[Bataan]] – [[Anna Lakrini|Annalena Lakrini]]
* Bb. #31 [[Laguna (province)|Laguna]] – [[Yllana Aduana|Yllana Marie Aduana]]
* Bb. #32 [[Batangas]] – Anna Carres De Mesa
* Bb. #35 [[Nueva Ecija]] – Diana Mackey
* Bb. #39 [[Tarlac|Tarlac Province]] – Jasmine Omay
|}

=== Special awards ===
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="font-size: 95%;"
!Award
!Contestant
!Ref.
|-
|Miss Hya-Loo
|
* Bb. #15 [[Guiguinto|Guiguinto, Bulacan]] – Nyca Bernardo
| rowspan="25" |<ref>{{Cite web |last=Purnell |first=Kristofer |date=1 August 2022 |title=LIST: Binibining Pilipinas 2022 winners, special awards |url=https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2022/08/01/2199055/list-binibining-pilipinas-2022-winners-special-awards |access-date=1 August 2022 |website=[[The Philippine Star]]}}</ref>
|-
|Miss Spotlight
|
* Bb. #40 [[San Pablo, Laguna]] – [[Roberta Tamondong]]
|-
|Miss Hello Glow
|
* Bb. #5 [[Iloilo City]] – Karen Mendoza
|-
|Miss Ever Organics
|
* Bb. #35 [[Nueva Ecija]] – Diana Mackey
|-
|Miss Careline
|
* Bb. #23 [[Cebu]] – [[Nicole Borromeo]]
|-
|Miss Blackwater
|
* Bb. #8 [[Angono]], [[Rizal (province)|Rizal]] – [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]
|-
|Miss Ever Bilena
|
* Bb. #17 [[Tacloban]] – [[Chelsea Fernandez]]
|-
|Miss Kumu People's Choice
|
* Bb. #5 [[Iloilo City]] – Karen Mendoza
|-
|Miss Kumu Question
|
* Bb. #38 [[La Union]] – Ethel Abellanosa
|-
|Best in National Costume
|
* Bb. #7 [[Oriental Mindoro]] – Graciella Lehmann
|-
|Best in Talent
|
* Bb. #18 [[Mexico, Pampanga]] – Maria Isabella David
|-
|Face of Binibini (Miss Photogenic)
|
* Bb. #31 [[Laguna (province)|Laguna]] – [[Yllana Aduana|Yllana Marie Aduana]]
|-
|Bb. Friendship
|
* Bb. #37 [[Catanduanes]] – Eiffel Rosalita
|-
|Bb. Philippine Airlines
|
* Bb. #40 [[San Pablo, Laguna]] – [[Roberta Tamondong]]
|-
|Manila Bulletin Readers' Choice
|
* Bb. #8 [[Angono, Rizal]] – [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]
|-
|Bb. Shein
|
* Bb. #8 [[Angono, Rizal]] – [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]
|-
|Bb. Moist Diane Shampoo
|
* Bb. #5 [[Iloilo City]] – Karen Mendoza
|-
|Bb. Pizza Hut
|
* Bb. #8 [[Angono, Rizal]] – [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]
|-
|Bb. Kumu
|
* Bb. #8 [[Angono, Rizal]] – [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]
|-
|Jag Queen
|
* Bb. #8 [[Angono, Rizal]] – [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]
|-
|Bb. Silka
|
* Bb. #8 [[Angono, Rizal]] – [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]
|-
|Bb. Ever Bilena
|
* Bb. #17 [[Tacloban]] – [[Chelsea Fernandez]]
|-
|Bb. World Balance
|
* Bb. #8 [[Angono, Rizal]] – [[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]
|-
|Best in Swimsuit
|
* Bb. #28 [[Borongan]], [[Eastern Samar]] – [[Gabrielle Basiano]]
|-
|Best in Evening Gown
|
* Bb. #28 [[Borongan]], [[Eastern Samar]] – [[Gabrielle Basiano]]
|}

== Pageant ==
=== Format ===
Binibining Pilipinas introduced several specific changes to the format for this edition. The number of semifinalists was reduced to 12, compared to 13 in [[Binibining Pilipinas 2021|2021]]. The results of the closed-door interview and various pageant activities determined the 12 semifinalists selected at large. The 12 semifinalists were tasked to give an opening statement, which was then followed by the swimsuit and evening gown competitions. The 12 semifinalists also competed at the question and answer portion, after which the four titleholders and two runners-up were announced.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Viernes |first=Franchesca |date=31 July 2022 |title=Here are the Top 12 Binibining Pilipinas 2022 finalists |url=https://www.gmanetwork.com/news/lifestyle/content/840020/here-are-the-top-12-binibining-pilipinas-2022-finalists/story/ |access-date=1 November 2022 |website=[[GMA News Online]] |language=en}}</ref>

=== Selection committee ===

* [[Cecilio Asuncion|Cecilio "Cece" Asuncion]] – Founder and model director, Slay Model Management<ref>{{Cite web |last=Purnell |first=Kristofer |date=2 August 2022 |title=Binibining Pilipinas 2022 judge slammed for wearing 'boxers' with Barong |url=https://www.philstar.com/entertainment/2022/08/02/2199745/binibining-pilipinas-2022-judge-slammed-wearing-boxers-barong |access-date=1 November 2022 |website=[[Philippine Star]]}}</ref>
* George Barcelon – President, Philippine Chamber of Commerce and Industry
* [[Ann Colis]] – [[Binibining Pilipinas 2015|Binibining Pilipinas Globe 2015]] & Miss Globe 2015
* [[Jane De Leon]] – Actress, singer, model, dancer<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |last=Lazaro |first=Cass |date=1 August 2022 |title=Whoa, Jane De Leon And Joshua Garcia Look ~Stunning~ As Judges Of Binibining Pilipinas 2022 |url=https://www.cosmo.ph/style/jane-de-leon-joshua-garcia-judges-binibining-pilipinas-2022-a4988-20220801 |access-date=1 November 2022 |website=[[Cosmopolitan (magazine)|Cosmopolitan]] |language=en-ph}}</ref>
* [[Joshua Garcia]] – Actor, dancer, commercial model<ref name=":0" />
* [[Rico Hizon]] – Broadcast journalist and senior news anchor, [[CNN Philippines|CNN]]
* [[Ahtisa Manalo (beauty queen)|Maria Ahtisa Manalo]] – [[Binibining Pilipinas 2018|Binibining Pilipinas International 2018]] & [[Miss International 2018]] 1st Runner-Up
* [[Alfredo E. Pascual|Alfredo Pascual]] – [[Secretary of Trade and Industry (Philippines)|Secretary]], [[Department of Trade and Industry (Philippines)|Department of Trade and Industry]]
* Ioannis Pediotis – Ambassador, Embassy of the Hellenic Republic in the Philippines

== Contestants ==
40 contestants competed for the four titles.<ref>{{Cite web |date=April 22, 2022 |title=Binibining Pilipinas names 40 candidates in 2022 pageant |url=https://news.abs-cbn.com/life/04/22/22/binibining-pilipinas-names-40-hopefuls-in-2022-pageant |access-date=April 22, 2022 |website=[[ABS-CBN News]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last=Adina |first=Armin |date=April 22, 2022 |title=Bb. Pilipinas pageant presents competitive batch of aspirants for 2022 contest |url=https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/401567/bb-pilipinas-pageant-presents-competitive-batch-of-aspirants-for-2022-contest/ |access-date=April 22, 2022 |website=Inquirer Lifestyle |language=en-US}}</ref>
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="font-size:95%;"
!No.
!Represented
!Delegate
!Age{{efn|Ages at the time of the pageant|name=A}}
|-
|'''1'''
|'''[[Cainta]]'''
|'''Stacey Gabriel'''
|'''24'''
|-
|2
|[[Camarines Sur]]
|Krizzia Moreno
|26
|-
|3
|[[Taguig]]
|Diana Pinto
|24
|-
|4
|[[Carcar]], [[Cebu]]
|Jane Genobisa
|25
|-
|5
|[[Iloilo City]]
|Karen Mendoza
|26
|-
|6
|[[Davao del Sur]]
|Elda Aznar
|26
|-
|7
|[[Oriental Mindoro]]
|Graciella Lehmann
|24
|-
|'''8'''
|'''[[Angono]], [[Rizal (province)|Rizal]]'''
|'''[[Herlene Budol|Nicole Budol]]'''
|'''22'''
|-
|9
|[[Marabut, Samar]]
|Natasha Jung
|18
|-
|10
|[[Sarangani]]
|Fatima Kate Bisan
|22
|-
|11
|[[Misamis Oriental]]
|Esel Pabillaran
|26
|-
|12
|[[Sultan Kudarat]]
|Leslie Avila
|19
|-
|13
|[[Masbate City]]
|Patricia Tan
|26
|-
|14
|[[Bulacan]]
|Joanna Day
|23
|-
|15
|[[Guiguinto]], [[Bulacan]]
|Nyca Bernardo
|22
|-
|16
|[[Davao City]]
|Jeriza Uy
|25
|-
|'''17'''
|'''[[Tacloban]]'''
|'''[[Chelsea Fernandez]]'''
|'''23'''
|-
|18
|[[Mexico, Pampanga]]
|Isabela David
|20
|-
|19
|[[Quezon|Quezon Province]]
|Ira Malaluan
|21
|-
|20
|[[Iba, Zambales]]
|Joanna Rabe
|26
|-
|21
|[[Lipa, Batangas|Lipa]]
|Gracia Mendoza
|24
|-
|22
|[[Davao Oriental]]
|Joanna Alajar
|27
|-
|'''23'''
|'''[[Cebu]]'''
|'''[[Nicole Borromeo]]'''
|'''21'''
|-
|24
|[[Quezon City]]
|Patricia Go
|26
|-
|25
|[[Bataan]]
|[[Anna Lakrini]]
|24
|-
|26
|[[Porac]], [[Pampanga]]
|Cyrille Payumo
|25
|-
|27
|[[Floridablanca, Pampanga]]
|Jessica McEwen
|25
|-
|'''28'''
|'''[[Eastern Samar]]'''
|'''[[Gabrielle Basiano]]'''
|'''24'''
|-
|29
|[[Marikina]]
|Mariella Esguerra
|24
|-
|30
|[[Albay]]
|Jashmin Dimaculangan
|25
|-
|31
|[[Laguna (province)|Laguna]]
|[[Yllana Aduana]]
|23
|-
|32
|[[Batangas]]
|Anne de Mesa
|23
|-
|33
|[[Cavite]]
|Justinne Punsalang
|27
|-
|34
|[[Zambales]]
|Christine Opiaza
|23
|-
|35
|[[Nueva Ecija]]
|Diana Mackey
|24
|-
|36
|[[Tanjay]], [[Negros Oriental]]
|Jannine Navarro
|27
|-
|37
|[[Catanduanes]]
|Eiffel Rosalita
|26
|-
|38
|[[La Union]]
|Ethel Abellanosa
|25
|-
|39
|[[Tarlac|Tarlac Province]]
|Jasmine Omay
|24
|-
|'''40'''
|'''[[San Pablo, Laguna]]'''
|'''[[Roberta Tamondong]]'''
|'''19'''
|}

==Notes==
{{notelist}}

== References ==
{{reflist|30em}}

{{Binibining Pilipinas}}

[[Category:Binibining Pilipinas|2022]]
[[Category:2022 beauty pageants]]
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Champús

2024-02-02T01:03:13Z

HelixxUnderscore: removing meaningless promotion

{{Short description|Drink}}
{{more citations needed|date=December 2009}}
{{Infobox beverage
| name = Champús
| image = Champús.jpg
| caption =
| type = Beverage
| origin = [[South America]]
| color =
| flavor =
| ingredients = [[Maize]], [[fruit]]s such as [[lulo]] (also known as naranjilla), pineapple, quince or guanábana, sweetened with [[panela]] and seasoned with [[cinnamon]], [[cloves]] and [[orange tree]] leaves.
| variants =
| related =
| website =
}}
'''Champús''' is a [[drink]] popular in [[Ecuador]], [[Perú]] and southwest [[Colombia]], made with [[maize]], [[fruit]]s such as [[lulo]] (also known as naranjilla), pineapple, quince or guanábana, sweetened with [[panela]] and seasoned with [[cinnamon]], [[cloves]] and [[orange tree]] leaves.

In [[Peru]], it is drunk warm, and [[apple]], guanábana and quince are used instead of lulo.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2019-10-16 |title=Champus de Guanabana - Arca del Gusto - Fondazione Slow Food |url=https://www.fondazioneslowfood.com/it/arca-del-gusto-slow-food/champus-de-guanabana/ |access-date=2023-08-08 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191016141509/https://www.fondazioneslowfood.com/it/arca-del-gusto-slow-food/champus-de-guanabana/ |archive-date=2019-10-16 }}</ref> It is sold in the streets by a ''champusera'', a typical figure of Lima's landscape, generally Afro-Peruvian, who passes down the recipe to younger generations.<ref>{{Cite book |last=Acurio |first=Gastón |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=MID-tgAACAAJ |title=Larousse de la gastronomía peruana: diccionario gatronómico ilustrado |date=2008 |publisher=Q.W. Editores |isbn=978-9972-58-937-9 |language=es}}</ref><ref>{{Cite book |last=Portal |first=Ismael |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=kqbUAAAAMAAJ |title=Del pasado limeño |date=1932 |publisher=Librería e imprenta Gil, s.a. |language=es}}</ref>

In [[Ecuador]], it is prepared with maize flour, panela and green leaves from the lemon tree. It is a drink in funeral rites in November or the funerals of adults because the indigenous tradition considers it a favorite of the dead.

In [[Colombia]], crushed maize is used, in addition to panela, lulo, pineapple, cinnamon, cloves and leaves of the orange tree. In the regions of the south, such as the Departments of Nariño and Cauca, it is considered mainly a drink for Christmas. In Nariño it is prepared also with leaves of cedrón and congona. In the Department of Valle del Cauca it is served very cold it is popular at any time.

In some regions of Peru and southern Colombia, the drink is made with ''mote'', cooked maize that makes the champús thicker; in these regions, it is consumed as dessert.

==Origin==
{{Peacock|section|date=February 2024}}
The origin of the word champús remains unknown due to the lack of registered information. However, there are certain theories that make this type of drink not only a Colombian drink but one made in different parts of [[South America]] like [[Ecuador]] and [[Peru]].

In 1960, Daniel Guevara in “Expresión ritual de comidas y bebidas ecuatorianas”, explains that champús in [[Ecuador]] is a drink used by indigenous tribes in funeral rituals. Since it is a traditional indigenous drink, like [[chicha]] and [[guarapo (drink)|guarapo]], it is said to share the same origin.

According to the “Diccionario of Vallecaucanismos” of Leonardo Tascón, Champús is a [[Spanish language|Spanish]] word that means “something done wrong, a mixture of everything”. He explains that the [[Spaniards|Spanish]] gave this name to the drink due to the unpleasant mixture of many things.

Others consider that it is an [[African languages|African]] word. In “[[Canto Negro]]” (2004), Nicomedes Santa Cruz finds this lady in traditional Afro-Peruvian songs. The problem is that, any of the defenders of the [[African languages|African]] thesis propose a word in the [[African languages|African]] language to relate to the origin of Champús.

“A champucera is a lady that placed herself in the plots with a lamp of tallow candles and an Afro-Descendant boy recited a copla to proclaim the sale of the champús”. “Seminario de la Historia de la Cocina Peruana” (2007).

Diaz (2018), believes that the most convincing theory about the origin of the word comes from the [[Quechuan languages|Quechua]], because “chapuy” means “to make dough” which, in fact, is the main ingredient of the drink.

Ceballos; Micanquer; Perez; Lasso and Zambrano (2011) explain that, in [[Colombia]], the Champús is a drink that comes from low- income families. They also explain that the champús gathers the energy of the [[corn]], the sweetness of the [[sugar cane]], the strength and the aroma of the cloves and the cinnamon as well as the secret touch from the orange leaves. Nowadays, it is a drink served all year long but the authors explained that this drink is made for [[Christmas]] celebrations and is also considered a dessert.

According to the authors above, they describe that this type of drink cures both thirst and hunger. It is a refreshing drink that at first might not look pleasant. There is a famous place in [[Cali]] where they sell this delicious drink, it is called “El Champús de Lola”. This establishment has run for almost 30 years and has passed to younger generations which had worked with the original recipe. Despite the existence of several venues that sell the same drink, customers consider that the best preparation of the champús come from the lower-income suburbs which are sold on the streets sometimes with the purpose of raising funds.

==References==
{{Reflist|30}}

#Tascon, L (1961). Quechuismos usados en Colombia. Editorial Norma. Colombia.
#Guevara, D (1960). Expresión ritual de comidas y bebidas ecuatorianas. Editorial Universitaria. Mexico.
#Santa Cruz, N (1971). Ritmos negros del Perú. Editorial Losada. Argentina.
#Villavicencio, M (2007). Seminario de la Historia de la Cocina Peruana. Universidad de San Martín de Porres. Peru.

{{DEFAULTSORT:Champus}}
[[Category:Peruvian cuisine]]
[[Category:Colombian cuisine]]
[[Category:Ecuadorian cuisine]]
[[Category:Non-alcoholic drinks]]
[[Category:Maize-based drinks]]

Champús

2024-02-02T01:00:57Z

HelixxUnderscore: tagging for peacock prose, see talk page

{{Short description|Drink}}
{{more citations needed|date=December 2009}}
{{Infobox beverage
| name = Champús
| image = Champús.jpg
| caption =
| type = Beverage
| origin = [[South America]]
| color =
| flavor =
| ingredients = [[Maize]], [[fruit]]s such as [[lulo]] (also known as naranjilla), pineapple, quince or guanábana, sweetened with [[panela]] and seasoned with [[cinnamon]], [[cloves]] and [[orange tree]] leaves.
| variants =
| related =
| website =
}}
'''Champús''' is a [[drink]] popular in [[Ecuador]], [[Perú]] and southwest [[Colombia]], made with [[maize]], [[fruit]]s such as [[lulo]] (also known as naranjilla), pineapple, quince or guanábana, sweetened with [[panela]] and seasoned with [[cinnamon]], [[cloves]] and [[orange tree]] leaves.

In [[Peru]], it is drunk warm, and [[apple]], guanábana and quince are used instead of lulo.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2019-10-16 |title=Champus de Guanabana - Arca del Gusto - Fondazione Slow Food |url=https://www.fondazioneslowfood.com/it/arca-del-gusto-slow-food/champus-de-guanabana/ |access-date=2023-08-08 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191016141509/https://www.fondazioneslowfood.com/it/arca-del-gusto-slow-food/champus-de-guanabana/ |archive-date=2019-10-16 }}</ref> It is sold in the streets by a ''champusera'', a typical figure of Lima's landscape, generally Afro-Peruvian, who passes down the recipe to younger generations.<ref>{{Cite book |last=Acurio |first=Gastón |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=MID-tgAACAAJ |title=Larousse de la gastronomía peruana: diccionario gatronómico ilustrado |date=2008 |publisher=Q.W. Editores |isbn=978-9972-58-937-9 |language=es}}</ref><ref>{{Cite book |last=Portal |first=Ismael |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=kqbUAAAAMAAJ |title=Del pasado limeño |date=1932 |publisher=Librería e imprenta Gil, s.a. |language=es}}</ref>

In [[Ecuador]], it is prepared with maize flour, panela and green leaves from the lemon tree. It is a drink in funeral rites in November or the funerals of adults because the indigenous tradition considers it a favorite of the dead.

In [[Colombia]], crushed maize is used, in addition to panela, lulo, pineapple, cinnamon, cloves and leaves of the orange tree. In the regions of the south, such as the Departments of Nariño and Cauca, it is considered mainly a drink for Christmas. In Nariño it is prepared also with leaves of cedrón and congona. In the Department of Valle del Cauca it is served very cold it is popular at any time.

In some regions of Peru and southern Colombia, the drink is made with ''mote'', cooked maize that makes the champús thicker; in these regions, it is consumed as dessert.

==Origin==
{{Peacock|section|date=February 2024}}
The origin of the word champús remains unknown due to the lack of registered information. However, there are certain theories that make this type of drink not only a Colombian drink but one made in different parts of [[South America]] like [[Ecuador]] and [[Peru]].

In 1960, Daniel Guevara in “Expresión ritual de comidas y bebidas ecuatorianas”, explains that champús in [[Ecuador]] is a drink used by indigenous tribes in funeral rituals. Since it is a traditional indigenous drink, like [[chicha]] and [[guarapo (drink)|guarapo]], it is said to share the same origin.

According to the “Diccionario of Vallecaucanismos” of Leonardo Tascón, Champús is a [[Spanish language|Spanish]] word that means “something done wrong, a mixture of everything”. He explains that the [[Spaniards|Spanish]] gave this name to the drink due to the unpleasant mixture of many things.

Others consider that it is an [[African languages|African]] word. In “[[Canto Negro]]” (2004), Nicomedes Santa Cruz finds this lady in traditional Afro-Peruvian songs. The problem is that, any of the defenders of the [[African languages|African]] thesis propose a word in the [[African languages|African]] language to relate to the origin of Champús.

“A champucera is a lady that placed herself in the plots with a lamp of tallow candles and an Afro-Descendant boy recited a copla to proclaim the sale of the champús”. “Seminario de la Historia de la Cocina Peruana” (2007).

Diaz (2018), believes that the most convincing theory about the origin of the word comes from the [[Quechuan languages|Quechua]], because “chapuy” means “to make dough” which, in fact, is the main ingredient of the drink.

Ceballos; Micanquer; Perez; Lasso and Zambrano (2011) explain that, in [[Colombia]], the Champús is a drink that comes from low- income families. They also explain that the champús gathers the energy of the [[corn]], the sweetness of the [[sugar cane]], the strength and the aroma of the cloves and the cinnamon as well as the secret touch from the orange leaves. Nowadays, it is a drink served all year long but the authors explained that this drink is made for [[Christmas]] celebrations and is also considered a dessert.

According to the authors above, they describe that this type of drink cures both thirst and hunger. It is a refreshing drink that at first might not look pleasant. There is a famous place in [[Cali]] where they sell this delicious drink, it is called “El Champús de Lola”. This establishment has run for almost 30 years and has passed to younger generations which had worked with the original recipe. Despite the existence of several venues that sell the same drink, customers consider that the best preparation of the champús come from the lower-income suburbs which are sold on the streets sometimes with the purpose of raising funds.

This drink goes well with lunch food and savoury snacks; it brings families together.

==References==
{{Reflist|30}}

#Tascon, L (1961). Quechuismos usados en Colombia. Editorial Norma. Colombia.
#Guevara, D (1960). Expresión ritual de comidas y bebidas ecuatorianas. Editorial Universitaria. Mexico.
#Santa Cruz, N (1971). Ritmos negros del Perú. Editorial Losada. Argentina.
#Villavicencio, M (2007). Seminario de la Historia de la Cocina Peruana. Universidad de San Martín de Porres. Peru.

{{DEFAULTSORT:Champus}}
[[Category:Peruvian cuisine]]
[[Category:Colombian cuisine]]
[[Category:Ecuadorian cuisine]]
[[Category:Non-alcoholic drinks]]
[[Category:Maize-based drinks]]

Talk:Champús

2024-02-02T01:00:22Z

HelixxUnderscore: /* Peacock prose */ new section

{{WikiProject banner shell|1=
{{WikiProject Colombia|class=stub |attention= |needs-infobox= |importance=low}}
{{WikiProject Peru|class=Stub|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Food and drink|drink=yes|class=Stub|importance=Low}}
}}

==Assessment comment==
{{Substituted comment|length=286|lastedit=20070305012556|comment=Decent information, but needs wikification and style fixes. [[User:Hwonder|Hwonder]] [[User talk:Hwonder|''talk'']] [[Special:Contributions/Hwonder|''contribs'']] 01:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)}}
Substituted at 11:14, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

== Peacock prose ==

I feel that part of this article is using peacock terms, or has a promotional tone. I'd like to point out this specific section:
<blockquote>Ceballos; Micanquer; Perez; Lasso and Zambrano (2011) explain that, in Colombia, the Champús is a drink that comes from low- income families. They also explain that the champús gathers the energy of the corn, the sweetness of the sugar cane, the strength and the aroma of the cloves and the cinnamon as well as the secret touch from the orange leaves. Nowadays, it is a drink served all year long but the authors explained that this drink is made for Christmas celebrations and is also considered a dessert.
According to the authors above, they describe that this type of drink cures both thirst and hunger. It is a refreshing drink that at first might not look pleasant. There is a famous place in Cali where they sell this delicious drink, it is called “El Champús de Lola”. This establishment has run for almost 30 years and has passed to younger generations which had worked with the original recipe. Despite the existence of several venues that sell the same drink, customers consider that the best preparation of the champús come from the lower-income suburbs which are sold on the streets sometimes with the purpose of raising funds.
This drink goes well with lunch food and savoury snacks; it brings families together.</blockquote>
I'm not sure if these authors are even a reliable source, and whatever source this section is referring to isn't made clear, though I am also unsure if it should be completely removed. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 01:00, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

User talk:2601:483:5A01:9880:D077:DF4:26A5:C924

2023-12-01T05:37:37Z

HelixxUnderscore: Notification: speedy deletion nomination of :Draft:Girl tits.

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Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, the introduction of inappropriate pages, such as [[:Draft:Girl tits]], is considered [[WP:VAND|vandalism]] and is prohibited. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Repeated vandalism may result in the [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|'''loss of editing privileges''']]. Under [[Wikipedia:CSD#G3|section G3 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], the page has been nominated for deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Draft:Girl tits|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]].  [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 05:37, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Ghe with upturn

2023-12-01T05:26:26Z

HelixxUnderscore: Undid revision 1186896696 by 2601:348:700:24D0:8D14:D2E0:4F8F:D33D (talk)

{{Cyrillic alphabet navbox
|Heading=Cyrillic letter Ghe with upturn
|Image=Cyrillic letter Ghe - uppercase and lowercase.svg
|size=120px
|uuc=0490
|ulc=0491
|sound = {{IPA|[ɡ]}}
}}
'''Ghe with upturn''' (Ґ ґ; italics: ''Ґ'' ''ґ''), also known as '''Ge''' or '''G''', is a letter of the [[Cyrillic script]]. It is part of the [[Ukrainian alphabet]], the [[Pannonian Rusyn language#Grammar and alphabet|Pannonian Rusyn alphabet]] and both the [[Rusyn language#Alphabet|Carpathian Rusyn alphabets]], and also some variants of the [[Urum language|Urum]] and [[Belarusian language|Belarusian]] (i.e. [[Taraškievica|Belarusian Classical Orthography]]) alphabets. In these languages it is usually called '''ge''', while the letter it follows, ⟨[[Ge (Cyrillic)|Г г]]⟩ is called ''he''. In the [[Unicode]] system for text encoding, this letter is called '''ghe with upturn'''.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0400.pdf |title=Cyrillic: Range: 0400–04FF |work=The Unicode Standard, Version 6.0 |year=2010 |publisher=Unicode Inc |page=42 |access-date=2011-10-13 }}</ref>

The [[letterform]] of this letter is based on the letterform of the letter ⟨[[Ge (Cyrillic)|Г г]]⟩, but its handwritten and italic lowercase forms do not follow the italic modification of ⟨г⟩: ''г''.

It represents the [[voiced velar plosive]] {{IPA|/ɡ/}}, like the pronunciation of ⟨g⟩ in "'''g'''o".

Ghe with upturn is usually romanized using the Latin letter ''g'', or sometimes ''ġ'' with a dot or ''g̀'' with a grave accent.

== History ==
The common Slavic [[voiced velar plosive]] {{IPA|[ɡ]}} is represented in most Cyrillic orthographies by ⟨[[Ge (Cyrillic)|Г]]⟩, called ге, ''ge'', in most languages. In Ukrainian, however, around the early 13th century, the sound [[lenition|lenited]] to the [[voiced velar fricative]] {{IPA|[ɣ]}} (except in the cluster *zg),<ref>{{Harvcoltxt|Shevelov|1977|p=145}}</ref> and around the 16th century, [[debuccalization|debuccalized]] to the [[voiced glottal fricative]] {{IPA|[ɦ]}}.<ref>{{Harvcoltxt|Shevelov|1977|p=148}}</ref> The [[phoneme]] continued to be represented by ⟨Г⟩, called ге, ''he'', in Ukrainian.

Within a century after this sound change began, {{IPA|[ɡ]}} was re-introduced from Western European loanwords. Since then, it has been represented by several different notations in writing.

In early Belarusian and Ukrainian orthographies, Latin ⟨g⟩ or the Cyrillic [[Digraph (orthography)|digraph]] ⟨кг⟩ (''kh'') were sometimes used for the sound of Latin ⟨g⟩ in assimilated words. The first text to consequently employ the letter ⟨ґ⟩ was the 16th-century [[Peresopnytsia Gospel]]. The use of the letter was not confined to the Old- and Middle-Ukrainian-speaking territory, and there was a fully-fledged use in the 16th-century printer [[Pyotr Mstislavets]]'s edition of ''The Four Gospels''. Later, distinguishing of the sound and using the digraph gradually disappeared from Belarusian orthography.

As far as linguistic studies are concerned, the letter ⟨ґ⟩ was first introduced into the Slavic alphabet in 1619 by [[Meletius Smotrytsky]] in his "Slavic Grammar" ''(Грамматіки славєнскиѧ правилноє Сѵнтаґма)''.<ref>[http://izbornyk.org.ua/smotrgram/sm07.htm Мелетій Смотрицький. Граматика слов'янська (1619). Підготовка факсимільного видання В. В. Німчука. Київ. «Наукова думка» (Пам'ятки української мови) 1979]</ref> Later, for an identical purpose, it was saved in the new orthography of Ukrainian.

The letter ⟨ґ⟩ was officially eliminated from the [[Ukrainian alphabet]] in the Soviet orthographic reforms of 1933, to bring the Ukrainian language closer to Russian, its function being subsumed into that of the letter ⟨г⟩, pronounced in Ukrainian as {{IPA|[ɦ]}}. However, ⟨ґ⟩ continued to be used by Ukrainians in [[Galicia (Central Europe)|Galicia]] (part of [[Poland]] until 1939) and in the Ukrainian [[diaspora]] worldwide, who all continued to follow the [[Ukrainian orthography of 1928|Kharkiv orthography of 1928]] (the so-called ''skrypnykivka'', after [[Mykola Skrypnyk]]). It was reintroduced to Soviet Ukraine in a 1990 orthographic reform under [[glasnost]],<ref>[http://izbornyk.org.ua/pravopys/rozdil1.htm#par15 Ukrainian Orthography (2012). — § 15. The letter ⟨ґ⟩.]</ref> just before [[Declaration of Independence of Ukraine|independence]] in 1991. A 2017 study of legal documents found that the letter had returned to active usage in Ukraine.<ref>{{Cite journal |last=Goletiani |first=Liana |date=2017-11-03 |title=The Letter that was Missing: On the Return of the Letter Ґ to the Ukrainian Legal Language |url=https://oaj.fupress.net/index.php/ss/article/view/2398 |journal=Studi Slavistici |language=en |pages=47–66 |doi=10.13128/STUDI_SLAVIS-21938}}</ref>

In Belarusian, the plosive realization of the Proto-Slavic voiced velar plosive has been preserved [[root (linguistics)|root]]-internally in the consonant clusters ⟨зг⟩, ⟨жг⟩, ⟨дзг⟩, and ⟨джг⟩ (in words such as ''мазгі'' {{IPA|[mazˈɡi]}}, ''вэдзгаць'' {{IPA|[ˈvɛdzɡatsʲ]}} or ''джгаць'' {{IPA|[ˈdʐɡatsʲ]}} but not on a morphological boundary, as in ''згадаць'' {{IPA|[zɣaˈdatsʲ]}}, in which {{IPA|/z/}} is a [[prefix]]). It is present in common loanwords such as ''ганак'' {{IPA|[ˈɡanak]}}, ''гузік'' {{IPA|[ˈɡuzʲik]}}, or ''гандаль'' {{IPA|[ˈɡandalʲ]}}. In the 20th century, some Belarusian linguists, notably [[Jan Stankievič]], promoted both the reintroduction of the practice of pronouncing Latin ⟨g⟩, at least in newly assimilated words, and the adoption of the letter ⟨ґ⟩ to represent it. However, consensus on this has never been reached, and the letter has never been part of the standard [[Belarusian alphabet]] and saw only sporadic periods of use. For example, a code of alternative Belarusian orthography rules, based on the proposal of [[Vincuk Viačorka]] and published in 2005, has the optional letter ⟨ґ⟩ included in the alphabet, but it can be replaced by ⟨г⟩.<ref name="bkl2005">Bušlakoŭ et al. (2005: 13)</ref>

== Usage in Slavic languages ==

=== Belarusian ===
The letter ґ next to г is used in the so-called "[[Taraškievica]]" - the classical spelling of the Belarusian language.

An attempt to differentiate in writing the transmission of sounds /[[Voiced velar fricative|ɣ]]/ and /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/, using along with the letter Г, г, a special letter Ґ, ґ, which differed in size and shape, took place in the history of the [[Ruthenian language|Old Belarusian language]].<ref>''[[Журавський Аркадій Йосипович|А._І._Жураўскі]]'' Гісторыя беларускай літаратурнай мовы. Т. 1. — Мн., 1967.</ref><ref>[https://www.bsu.by/Cache/pdf/257053.pdf Беларуская мова: хрэстоматыя: Вучэбны дапаможнік]</ref>

In A. Jelsky's publication in 1895, a new sign was introduced for the fricative /[[Voiced velar fricative|ɣ]]/ inherent in the Belarusian language, in contrast to the Russian breakthrough [g]. The new letter [[г̑]] differed in contours from the letter Г, г by the presence of a diacritical mark in the form of a bracket bent downwards. In the publication of folklore and ethnographic work by A.K. Serzhputovsky in 1911, the sign Ґ, ґ with a curved upward horizontal line was proposed for the same purpose. The same sign was used in the alphabet of Kupala's collection in 1908 and became part of the alphabet approved by the first normative grammar of the Belarusian language by [[Branislaw Tarashkyevich]], only with a different purpose - to convey a sonorous soft palate breakthrough /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/. But in 1933 the letter Ґ, ґ, was excluded from the Belarusian alphabet, as well as from the Ukrainian one.

==== Belarusian Classical Orthography ====
'''§ 61. G''' When adopting foreign proper names, explosive /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/ can be transmitted through a letter '''ґ''' (“ґе”): ''Ґіём, Ґасконь'' etc.<ref>{{Cite web |date=2009-09-25 |title=Беларускі Клясычнырав Правапіс |url=http://pravapis.info/books/pravapis2005.html#ftn55 |access-date=2023-03-18 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090925112038/http://pravapis.info/books/pravapis2005.html#ftn55 |archive-date=2009-09-25 }}</ref>

In the literary Belarusian language, an explosive sound /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/ (and its soft equivalent /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]ʲ/) pronounced in Belarusian sound combinations [<nowiki/>[[Voiced alveolar fricative|z̪]][[Voiced velar plosive|g]]], [<nowiki/>[[Voiced alveolar affricate|d͡z̞]][[Voiced velar plosive|g]]], [<nowiki/>[[Voiced postalveolar affricate|d͡ʐ]][[Voiced velar plosive|g]]]: ''во[з'''ґ''']ры'', ''ма[з'''ґ’''']і'', ''ро[з'''ґ’''']і'', ''абры[з'''ґ''']лы'', ''бра[з'''ґ''']аць'', ''пляву[з'''ґ''']аць'', ''вэ[дз'''ґ''']аць'', ''[дж'''ґ''']аць'' and in a number of borrowed words: ''['''ґ''']анак'', ''['''ґ''']арсэт'', ''['''ґ''']валт'', ''['''ґ''']зымс'', ''['''ґ''']онта'', ''['''ґ''']узік'', ''а['''ґ''']рэст'', ''['''ґ’''']ер['''ґ’''']етаць'', ''цу['''ґ''']лі'', ''шва['''ґ’''']ер'' etc. This marked the beginning of the restoration in the twentieth century of the use of the letter ґ, which was used in the Old Belarusian language.

In proper names with a non-Slavic lexical basis, explosive /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/ is traditionally pronounced in Belarusian as fricative /[[Voiced velar fricative|ɣ]]/; preservation of /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/ in pronunciation does not qualify as a violation of the orthoepic norm: ''['''Г''']арыбальдзі'' and ''['''Ґ''']арыбальдзі'', ''['''Г''']рэнляндыя'' and ''['''Ґ''']рэнляндыя'', ''['''Г’''']ётэ'' and ''['''Ґ’''']ётэ'', ''['''Г’''']ібральтар'' and ''['''Ґ’''']ібральтар''.

The sound [<nowiki/>[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]] in Belarusian also exists in place of etymological [<nowiki/>[[Voiced velar plosive|k]]] before voiced consonants, as a result of assimilation. This assimilation is not reflected in writing, so the letter '''к''' is used in this case: ''анэ'''к'''дот, ва'''к'''зал, па'''к'''гаўз, э'''к'''замэн, э'''к'''сгумацыя''.

=== Ukrainian ===
The letter Ґ ґ in the Ukrainian language represents the voiced velar plosive /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/.

It is usually [[Romanization|romanized]] as the letter ''[[g]]'' (while the letter [[Ge (Cyrillic)|Г г]] is transliterated as ''[[h]]'', and Cyrillic [[Kha (Cyrillic)|Х х]] as ''kh'' or ''ch''). Some European standards use ''ġ'' with a dot or ''g̀'' with a grave accent (see [[Preußische Instruktionen]], [[ISO 9]]).

==== Current orthography<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://mon.gov.ua/storage/app/media/zagalna%20serednya/05062019-onovl-pravo.pdf|title=Український правопис 2019 року|last=|first=|date=|website=|publisher=|language=|accessdate=}}</ref> ====
'''§ 6. Letter Ґ'''

1. In Ukrainian and long-borrowed/Ukrainianized words: ''а́ґрус, ґа́ва, ґа́зда́, ґандж, ґа́нок, ґату́нок, ґвалт, ґе́ґати, ґедзь, ґелґота́ти, ґелґотіти, ґерґелі, ґерґота́ти, ґерґоті́ти, ґи́ґнути, ґирли́ґа, ґлей, ґніт (in the lamp), ґо́ґель-мо́ґель, ґонт(а), ґрасува́ти, ґра́ти (noun), ґре́чний, ґринджо́ли, ґрунт, ґу́дзик, ґу́ля, ґура́льня, джиґу́н, дзи́ґа, дзи́ґлик, дриґа́ти і дри́ґати, ремиґа́ти'' etc. and in their derivatives: ''а́ґрусовий, ґаздува́ти, ґвалтува́ти, ґе́рґіт, ґратча́стий, ґрунтови́й, ґрунтува́ти(ся), ґу́дзиковий, ґу́лька, проґа́вити'' etc.

2. In proper names — toponyms of Ukraine: ''Ґорґа́ни'' (massif), ''Ґоро́нда'', ''У́ґля'' (villages in [[Zakarpattia Oblast|Zakarpattia]]), in the surnames of Ukrainians: ''Ґалаґа́н, Ґалято́вський, Ґе́ник, Ґерза́нич, Ґерда́н, Ґжи́цький, Ґи́ґа, Ґо́ґа, Ґо́йдич, Ґо́нта, Ґри́ґа, Ґудзь, Ґу́ла, Лома́ґа''.

'''§ 122. Sounds [g], [h]'''

1. The sound /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/ and similar sounds denoted by the letter g are usually transmitted by the letter г: ''аванга́рд, агіта́ція, агре́сор, бло́гер, гва́рдія, генера́л, гламу́р, гра́фік, грог, емба́рго, марке́тинг, мігра́ція; лінгві́стика, негативний, се́рфінг, синаго́га, Вахта́нг, Гарсі́я, Гайнетді́н, Ердога́н, Гвіне́я, Гольфстри́м, Гренла́ндія, Гру́зія, Ге́те, Гео́рг, Гурамішві́лі, Люксембу́рг, Магоме́т, Фольксва́ген, Чика́го''.

2. The letter ґ conveys the sound /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/ in long-borrowed common names, such as ''ґа́нок, ґатунок, ґвалт, ґра́ти, ґрунт'', etc. (see § 6) and their derivatives: ''ґа́нковий, ґратча́стий, ґрунто́вний'' etc.

3. In surnames and names of people it is allowed to transmit the sound /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/ in two ways: by adapting to the sound system of the Ukrainian language — with the letter г (''Вергі́лій, Гарсі́я, Ге́гель, Гео́рг, Ге́те, Грегуа́р, Гулліве́р'') and by imitating a foreign language /[[Voiced velar plosive|g]]/ — with the letter ґ (''Верґі́лій, Ґарсі́я, Ге́ґель, Ґео́рґ, Ґе́те, Ґреґуа́р, Ґулліве́р'' etc.)

==Form==
[[File:Ukrainian cursive letter "Ґґ".png|50px|left|thumb|The cursive form in Ukrainian]]
[[File:Ґудзик.png|alt=Examples of words using the letter Ґ in cursive writing.|thumb|Examples of words using the letter Ґ in cursive writing.]]
Regular (non-cursive) uppercase and lowercase forms of this letter look similar to the corresponding regular (non-cursive) uppercase and lowercase forms of [[Ge (Cyrillic)|the letter Г г]], but with additional upturn. Handwritten (cursive) uppercase and lowercase forms of this letter are displayed by the image to the left.
{{clear left}}

==Related letters and other similar characters==
*Г г : [[Ge (Cyrillic)|Cyrillic letter Ge]] (distinguished and named He in the Ukrainian and Belarusian alphabets)
*Γ γ : [[Gamma|Greek letter Gamma]]
*G g : [[G|Latin letter G]]
*Ġ ġ : [[Ġ|Latin letter Ġ]]

{{anchor|Code positions}}

==Computing codes==

{{charmap
|0490|name1=Cyrillic Capital Letter Ghe with Upturn
|0491|name2=Cyrillic Small Letter Ghe with Upturn
|map1=[[KOI8-U]] |map1char1=BD |map1char2=AD
|map2=[[Windows-1251]] |map2char1=A5 |map2char2=B4
|map3=[[Macintosh Cyrillic encoding|Macintosh Cyrillic]] |map3char1=A2 |map3char2=B6
}}

==References==
{{Reflist}}

== Further reading ==
*Bušlakoŭ, Juraś, Vincuk Viačorka, Źmicier Sańko, Źmicier Saŭka. 2005. [http://knihi.com/storage/pravapis2005.html ''Klasyčny pravapis. Zbor praviłaŭ: Sučasnaja narmalizacyja''] [Classical orthography. Set of rules: Contemporary normalization]. ([http://archive.svaboda.org/info/pravapis2005.pdf PDF].) Vilnia—Miensk: Audra.
*Лёсік, Язэп. 1927. “Да рэформы беларускай азбукі”, у: [http://knihi.com/none/Pracy_akademicnaje_konferencyi_pa_reformie_bielaruskaha_pravapisu_i_azbuki_1926_h.html ''Працы акадэмічнае конфэрэнцыі па рэформе беларускага правапісу і азбукі'']. Менск: Інстытут Беларускае Культуры.
* {{cite journal |last=Shevelov |first=George Y. |title=On the Chronology of ''H'' and the New ''G'' in Ukrainian |url=http://140.247.132.248/huri/pdf/hus_volumes/vI_n2june1977.pdf |journal=Harvard Ukrainian Studies |volume=1 |issue=2 |date=June 1977 |pages=137–152 |location=Cambridge |publisher=Harvard Ukrainian Research Institute|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110703105253/http://140.247.132.248/huri/pdf/hus_volumes/vI_n2june1977.pdf |archive-date=2011-07-03 }}
*Станкевіч, Ян. 2002. “Гук «ґ» у беларускай мове” [The G sound in Belarusian], у: Ян Станкевіч, ''Збор твораў у двух тамах''. Т. 2. - Менск: Энцыклапедыкс. {{ISBN|985-6599-46-6}}

==External links==
*{{Wiktionary-inline|Ґ}}
*{{Wiktionary-inline|ґ}}

User:HelixxUnderscore

2023-12-01T04:50:56Z

HelixxUnderscore: updated to UV

Hi, I'm not Helixx anymore please call me Marz. I'm trying to do my best to revert vandalism and unconstructive edits, however i may mess up sometimes. in that case, you can leave a note on my talk page if i reverted a good edit.
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User:HelixxUnderscore/common.js

2023-12-01T04:49:46Z

HelixxUnderscore: Installing User:10nm/beta.js (script-installer)

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2023-12-01T04:49:16Z

HelixxUnderscore: Uninstalling User:RedWarn/.js (script-installer)

User:HelixxUnderscore

2023-12-01T04:47:25Z

HelixxUnderscore: changed my name

Trans man

2023-01-12T07:05:45Z

HelixxUnderscore: /* top */

{{short description|Man assigned female at birth}}
{{use dmy dates|date=June 2022}}
{{pp-pc|small=yes}}
[[File:Kye Allums.jpg|alt=A young Black man dressed in vest and tie, with leg crossed over his knee and his chin resting on his hand. He looks off-camera to the left. |thumb|[[Kye Allums]], the first openly transgender [[NCAA Division I]] college athlete.]]
{{Transgender sidebar}}
{{Boys and men sidebar}}
A '''trans man''' is a [[man]] who was [[assigned female at birth]]. The label of [[transgender]] man is not always interchangeable with that of [[transsexual]] man, although the two labels are often used in this way. ''Transgender'' is an [[umbrella term]] that includes different types of gender variant people (including transsexual people). Trans men have a male [[gender identity]], and many trans men choose to undergo surgical or hormonal transition, or both (see [[sex reassignment therapy]]), to alter their appearance in a way that aligns with their gender identity or alleviates [[gender dysphoria]].<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Bariola |first1=Emily |last2=Lyons |first2=Anthony |last3=Leonard |first3=William |last4=Pitts |first4=Marian |last5=Badcock |first5=Paul |last6=Couch |first6=Murray |title=Demographic and Psychosocial Factors Associated With Psychological Distress and Resilience Among Transgender Individuals |journal=American Journal of Public Health |date=October 2015 |volume=105 |issue=10 |pages=2108–2116 |doi=10.2105/AJPH.2015.302763 |pmid=26270284 |pmc=4566567 }}</ref>

Although the literature{{by whom}} indicates that most trans men identify as [[heterosexual]] (meaning they are sexually attracted to women),<ref name="Shankle">{{cite book |last=Shankle |first=Michael |title=The Handbook of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Public Health: A Practitioner's Guide to Service|publisher=[[Routledge]] |isbn=978-1-136-57355-2 |year= 2013 |page=175 |access-date=January 10, 2016 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=xq5LU0iK1Y4C&pg=RA1-PT175}}</ref><ref name="Yitzchak">{{cite book |last1=Binik |first1=Yitzchak M. |last2=Hall |first2=Kathryn S. K. |author-link1=Irving M. Binik |title=Principles and Practice of Sex Therapy, Fifth Edition |publisher=[[Guilford Publications]] |isbn=978-1-4625-1389-5 |year=2014 |page=252 |access-date=January 10, 2016 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=AvfkAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA252}}</ref> trans men, like [[cisgender]] men, can have any [[sexual orientation]] or [[sexual identity]], and some trans men might consider conventional sexual orientation labels inadequate or inapplicable to them, in which case they may elect to use labels like ''[[queer]].''<ref name="BocktingBenner2009">{{cite journal |last1=Bockting |first1=Walter |last2=Benner |first2=Autumn |last3=Coleman |first3=Eli |author-link3=Eli Coleman |title=Gay and Bisexual Identity Development Among Female-to-Male Transsexuals in North America: Emergence of a Transgender Sexuality |journal=Archives of Sexual Behavior |date=28 March 2009 |volume=38 |issue=5 |pages=688–701 |doi=10.1007/s10508-009-9489-3 |pmid=19330439 |s2cid=27207925 }}</ref>

== Terminology ==
{{See|Transgender#Terminology}}
[[File:BrianMichaelGLAAD18.jpg|alt=A handsome Black man in a blue suit standing in front of an awards ceremony backdrop.|thumb|[[Brian Michael Smith]], award-winning actor.]]
[[File:Elliot Page 2021.png|alt=A thin, white man gazing at the camera, wearing a black hoodie, with a snowy background.|thumb|[[Elliot Page]], Canadian actor and producer.]]
[[File:Elliot Fletcher.jpg|thumb|[[Elliot Fletcher]], American actor.]]
[[File:Thomas Beatie på Stockholm Pride 2011.JPG|thumb|[[Thomas Beatie]], an American public speaker, author, and advocate for transgender [[reproductive rights]].|alt=A smiling young man of white, Korean, and Filipino descent, standing at a podium, gesturing with one hand.]]

The [[umbrella term]] {{wt|en|trans}}{{efn|occasionally spelled {{Wt|en|trans*}}, using the asterisk ({{code|*}}) as a [[wildcard character]]}} is a shortening of both ''[[transgender]]'' and ''[[transsexual]]'', and describes anyone whose gender identity does not align with their [[assigned sex]]. Trans men who transition are commonly referred to as '''female-to-male''' ('''FTM''' or '''F2M''').<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Swann |first1=William B. |author-link1=William Swann |last2=Gómez |first2=Ángel |last3=Vázquez |first3=Alexandra |last4=Guillamón |first4=Antonio |last5=Segovia |first5=Santiago |last6=Carillo |first6=Beatriz |date=10 February 2015 |title=Fusion with the Cross-Gender Group Predicts Genital Sex Reassignment Surgery |journal=Archives of Sexual Behavior |volume=44 |issue=5 |pages=1313–1318 |doi=10.1007/s10508-014-0470-4 |pmid=25666854 |s2cid=3261825}}</ref>

The term ''transsexual'' originated in the medical and psychological communities, and is generally considered a subset of ''[[transgender]]'', although the two are not always interchangeable. It predominantly describes people with medically diagnosed [[gender dysphoria]], and who desire to permanently transition to the opposite [[sex]] via [[sex reassignment therapy]]. Many trans people prefer the labels ''transgender'' or ''trans'', considering them more inclusive and less stigmatizing.<ref name="Polly">{{cite journal |last1=Polly |first1=Ryan |last2=Nicole |first2=Julie |date=March 2011 |title=Understanding transsexual patients: culturally sensitive care in emergency nursing practice |url=https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21317698/ |url-status=live |journal=[[Advanced Emergency Nursing Journal]] |volume=33 |issue=1 |pages=55–64 |doi=10.1097/TME.0b013e3182080ef4 |pmid=21317698 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220311010934/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21317698/ |archive-date=2022-03-11 |access-date=2022-05-14 |quote=The use of terminology by transsexual individuals to self-identify varies. As aforementioned, many transsexual individuals prefer the term transgender, or simply trans, as it is more inclusive and carries fewer stigmas. There are some transsexual individuals, however, who reject the term transgender; these individuals view transsexualism as a treatable congenital condition. Following medical and/or surgical transition, they live within the binary as either a man or a woman and may not disclose their transition history. |s2cid=2481961}}</ref><ref name="Swanson">A Swenson, ''Medical Care of the Transgender Patient'', in ''Family Medicine'' (2014): "While some transsexual people still prefer to use the term to describe themselves, many transgender people prefer the term transgender to transsexual."</ref> However, others, such as [[Buck Angel]], reject the label of ''transgender''.<ref>{{cite web |date=March 2014 |title=Transsexualism |url=http://www.gendercentre.org.au/ |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160304090430/http://www.gendercentre.org.au/resources/fact-sheets/transsexualism.htm |archive-date=2016-03-04 |access-date=2016-07-05 |website=Gender Centre |quote=Transsexualism is often included within the broader term 'transgender', which is generally considered an umbrella term for people who do not conform to typically accepted gender roles for the sex they were assigned at birth. The term 'transgender' is a word employed by activists to encompass as many groups of gender diverse people as possible. However, many of these groups individually don't identify with the term. Many health clinics and services set up to serve gender variant communities employ the term, however most of the people using these services again don't identify with this term. The rejection of this political category by those that it is designed to cover clearly illustrates the difference between self-identification and categories that are imposed by observers to understand other people.}}</ref><ref>{{Cite tweet|number=1115768669798141952|user=BuckAngel|title=Transsexual is my identity and where I came from. [...] Transgender does not represent me.|date=Apr 9, 2019}}</ref> The [[GLAAD]] media reference guide advises against describing people as ''transsexual'', except for individuals who explicitly identify as such.<ref name="glaad.org2">{{cite news |date=22 February 2022 |title=GLAAD Media Reference Guide – Transgender Terms |url=https://www.glaad.org/reference/trans-terms |access-date=4 June 2022 |website=[[GLAAD]]}}</ref>

''[[Transmasculine]]'' (sometimes clipped to {{Wt|en|transmasc}}) is a broader term for all trans individuals with predominantly masculine identities or [[gender expression]], and includes trans men as well as [[non-binary]] people who were [[assigned female at birth]] and may have a identity that is partially masculine but not entirely male.<ref name="pmid271839782">{{cite journal |last1=MacDonald |first1=Trevor |author-link1=Trevor Kirczenow |last2=Noel-Weiss |first2=Joy |last3=West |first3=Diana |author-link3=Diana West (lactation consultant) |last4=Walks |first4=Michelle |last5=Biener |first5=MaryLynne |last6=Kibbe |first6=Alanna |last7=Myler |first7=Elizabeth |date=16 May 2016 |title=Transmasculine individuals' experiences with lactation, chestfeeding, and gender identity: a qualitative study |journal=BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth |volume=16 |issue=1 |page=106 |doi=10.1186/s12884-016-0907-y |pmc=4867534 |pmid=27183978}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |title=Definition of transmasculine |url=http://www.dictionary.com/browse/transmasculine |access-date=8 September 2016 |website=Dictionary.com}}</ref>

The alternate spelling {{Wt|en|transman}} is sometimes used interchangeably. However, like {{Wt|en|transwoman}}, it is often associated with [[Transphobia|trans-exclusionary]] views which hold that trans men are distinct from men, and thus require a separate word to describe them.<ref name="Lopez">German Lopez, ''[https://www.vox.com/2015/2/18/8055691/transgender-transgendered-tnr Why you should always use "transgender" instead of "transgendered"]'', ''Vox'', February 18, 2015</ref> For this reason many transgender people find the spelling offensive.<ref name="Lopez" />

== Transitioning ==
{{See also|Gender transitioning}}
[[File:Buck Angel Headshot.jpg|thumb|[[Buck Angel]], an American actor, producer, and sex educator. ]]
[[File:The Dork Forest at Meltdown Comics, 29 November 2011(2).jpg|thumb|[[Ian Harvie]], an American comedian and openly transgender man.]]
Originally, the term ''trans men'' referred specifically to female-to-male [[transsexual|transsexual people]] who underwent [[Hormone replacement therapy (female-to-male)|hormone replacement therapy]] (HRT) or [[sex reassignment surgery female-to-male|sex reassignment surgery]] (SRS), or both. The definition of ''transition'' has broadened to include theories of psychological development or complementary methods of self-acceptance.<ref name="Hudson">{{cite web |title=Hudson's Guide: FTM Basics: Terminology |url=http://www.ftmguide.org/terminology.html |access-date=22 February 2015 |website=Hudson's FTM Resource Guide}}</ref><ref name="IJSO">{{cite web |url=http://www.huc.edu/ijso/glossary/ |title=Glossary of Terms and Usage |website=[[Hebrew Union College – Jewish Institute of Religion]] |access-date=22 February 2015 |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140519234810/http://www.huc.edu/ijso/glossary/ |archive-date=19 May 2014 }}</ref> Many of those who identify as transgender may face [[gender dysphoria]].

[[Transsexual]] and transgender men may seek medical interventions such as hormones and surgery to make their bodies as congruent as possible with their gender presentation. However, many transgender and transsexual men cannot afford or choose not to undergo surgery or hormone replacement therapy.

Many who have not undergone [[mastectomy|top surgery]] choose to [[Breast binding|bind]] their breasts. There are a few different methods of binding, including using sports bras and specially made binders (which can be vest-type, or wrap-around style). Tape or bandages are often depicted in popular culture.

Some trans men might also decide to [[packing (phallus)|pack]], to create a phallic bulge in the crotch of clothing. However, this is not universal. Trans men who decide to pack may use anything from rolled up socks to specially made packers, which resemble a penis. Some packers are also created for trans men to be able to urinate through them ([[female urination device|stand-to-pee]], or STP, devices), or for [[sexual penetration]] or other [[sexual activity]] (known as "pack-and-play").

Transitioning might involve some or all of the following steps:<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.ftmaustralia.org/treatment/whatis.html |title=What is transition? |website=FTM Australia |date=14 April 2007 |access-date=4 June 2022 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080725044946/http://www.ftmaustralia.org/treatment/whatis.html |archive-date=25 July 2008 |url-status=dead}}</ref>{{better source needed|reason=Source is fifteen years old. Newer sources should cover this in better detail|date=June 2022}}
* Social transition: using a preferred name and pronouns, wearing clothing seen as gender appropriate, disclosure to family, friends and usually at the workplace/school.
* [[Sex reassignment therapy]]: [[Masculinizing hormone therapy|hormone replacement therapy]] (HRT), and/or [[sex reassignment surgery female-to-male|surgery]] (SRS)<ref name=pmid25692791>{{cite journal |last1=Meriggiola |first1=Maria Cristina |last2=Gava |first2=Giulia |title=Endocrine care of transpeople part I. A review of cross-sex hormonal treatments, outcomes and adverse effects in transmen |journal=Clinical Endocrinology |publisher=Wiley |date=25 March 2015 |volume=83 |issue=5 |pages=597–606 |doi=10.1111/cen.12753 |pmid=25692791 |hdl=11585/541907 |s2cid=11480289 |issn=0300-0664}}</ref>
* Legal affirmation: name and (sometimes) sex marker correction in legal identification documents.<ref name="TETG">{{cite book |last=Lev |first=Arlene Istar |author-link=Arlene Istar Lev |date=2004 |title=Transgender Emergence: Therapeutic Guidelines for Working with Gender-Variant People and their Families |publisher=The Haworth Clinical Practice Press |isbn=978-0-7890-2117-5 |oclc=51342468}}</ref><ref name="MOF">{{cite journal |last1=Eno |first1=Amanda S. |title=The Misconception of Sex in Title VII: Federal Courts Reevaluate Transsexual Employment Discrimination Claims |journal=Tulsa Law Review |date=21 June 2013 |volume=43 |issue=3 |pages=765–792 |url=https://digitalcommons.law.utulsa.edu/tlr/vol43/iss3/10/ |issn=1942-986X}}</ref>

Being socially accepted as male (sometimes known as [[passing (gender)|passing]]) may be challenging for trans men who have not undergone HRT and/or surgery.<ref name="TETG" /><ref name="MOF" /> Some trans men may choose to present as female in certain social situations (e.g. at work).<ref name="TETG" /><ref name="MOF" /> After physical transition, trans men usually live full-time as male.<ref name="TETG" /><ref name="MOF" /> However, some transmasculine individuals might choose to use and engage their bodies to be [[Pregnancy|pregnant]], birth a baby, and [[breastfeeding|breastfeed]].<ref name="pmid27183978">{{cite journal |last1=MacDonald |first1=Trevor |author-link1=Trevor Kirczenow |last2=Noel-Weiss |first2=Joy |last3=West |first3=Diana |author-link3=Diana West (lactation consultant) |last4=Walks |first4=Michelle |last5=Biener |first5=MaryLynne |last6=Kibbe |first6=Alanna |last7=Myler |first7=Elizabeth |date=16 May 2016 |title=Transmasculine individuals' experiences with lactation, chestfeeding, and gender identity: a qualitative study |journal=BMC Pregnancy and Childbirth |volume=16 |issue=1 |page=106 |doi=10.1186/s12884-016-0907-y |pmc=4867534 |pmid=27183978}}</ref><ref>{{Cite journal |last1=Bonnington |first1=Adam |last2=Dianat |first2=Shokoufeh |last3=Kerns |first3=Jennifer |last4=Hastings |first4=Jen |last5=Hawkins |first5=Mitzi |last6=Haan |first6=Gene De |last7=Obedin-Maliver |first7=Juno |date=1 August 2020 |title=Society of Family Planning clinical recommendations: Contraceptive counseling for transgender and gender diverse people who were female sex assigned at birth |url=https://www.contraceptionjournal.org/article/S0010-7824(20)30104-9/abstract |journal=Contraception |publisher=Elsevier BV |language=English |volume=102 |issue=2 |pages=70–82 |doi=10.1016/j.contraception.2020.04.001 |issn=0010-7824 |pmid=32304766 |s2cid=215819218}}</ref>

=={{anchor|Straight trans man}} Prevalence, identity and relationships==

In the United States, the ratio of trans men within the general population is unclear, but estimates range between 1:2,000 and 1:100,000.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Conway |first1=Lynn |author-link1=Lynn Conway |date=17 December 2002 |title=Estimating the Prevalence of Transsexualism |url=http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html }}</ref>{{better source needed|reason=Source is 20 years old. More up to date information may be available|date=June 2022}}<ref>{{cite web |last=Herman |first=Joanne |url=http://www.advocate.com/politics/commentary/2006/05/12/there-are-more-us-you-think |title=There are more of us than you think |website=[[The Advocate (LGBT magazine)]] |date=12 May 2006 |access-date=22 February 2015}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.msu.edu/~alliance/faq/faqtransgendered.html |title=FAQ - Transgenderism |last1=Rohde |first1=Maggi |year=1996 |website=The Alliance of Les-Bi-Gay-Transgender and Straight Ally Students, Michigan State University |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080520111935/http://www.msu.edu/~alliance/faq/faqtransgendered.html |archive-date=20 May 2008 |access-date=4 June 2022 |url-status=dead}}</ref>{{better source needed|reason=Source is 26 years old. More up to date information may be available|date=June 2022}} A U.S. Census Bureau study in 2015 suggests that there were around 58,000 name changes in census records consistent with female to male transitions although only 7,500 of these changed their sex coding as well.<ref>{{cite report |title=Likely Transgender Individuals in U.S. Federal Administrative Records and the 2010 Census |last=Cerf-Harris |first=Benjamin |date=4 May 2015 |publisher=U.S. Census Bureau |url=https://www.census.gov/srd/carra/15_03_Likely_Transgender_Individuals_in_ARs_and_2010Census.pdf |access-date=4 June 2022 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170112190056/https://www.census.gov/srd/carra/15_03_Likely_Transgender_Individuals_in_ARs_and_2010Census.pdf |archive-date=12 January 2017 |url-status=dead}}</ref>{{failed verification|reason=58,000 figure is the 90% confidence threshold, figure drops to 24,528 at 99%.|date=June 2022}}

In a study by Kara Devaney, entitled ''Transgender Research Literature Review'', it is addressed that the term ''transgender'' encompasses a myriad of different and unique identities that do not follow the "normal" rules of gender. Miriam J. Abelson writes, "There is no question that trans men's experiences are men's
experiences and give insight about men, masculinity, and gender inequality."<ref>{{cite thesis |last1=Abelson |first1=Miriam |title=Men in Context: Transmasculinities and Transgender Experiences in Three US Regions |date=17 October 2014 |hdl=1794/18512 }}</ref>

Like [[cisgender]] men, trans men can have any [[sexual orientation]] or [[sexual identity]], including [[Heterosexuality|heterosexual]], [[Gay men|gay]], [[Bisexuality|bisexual]], and [[queer]],<ref name="BocktingBenner2009" /> and some trans men consider conventional sexual orientation labels inadequate or inapplicable to them.<ref name="Hrc.org">{{cite web |title=Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Definitions |url=https://www.hrc.org/resources/sexual-orientation-and-gender-identity-terminology-and-definitions |website=Human Rights Campaign |access-date=4 June 2022}}</ref> The literature commonly indicates that sexual attraction to those of their same gender (e.g., trans men liking men and trans women liking women) is considerably less common among trans men than among trans women; the vast majority of trans men are reported as heterosexual.<ref name="Shankle" /><ref name="Yitzchak" /> Surveys from the [[National Center for Transgender Equality]] show more variation in sexual orientation or sexual identity among trans men. In NCTE's 2015 Transgender Survey of respondents who identified as trans men, 23% identified as heterosexual or straight. The vast majority (65%) identified their sexual orientation or sexual identity as [[queer]] (24%), pansexual (17%), bisexual (12%), or gay/[[same-gender loving]] (12%).<ref name="NCTE USTS" />

Some trans men date heterosexual women, while other trans men date queer-identified women; the latter might be because queer-identified women are less invested in the gender and sexual anatomy of a person when it comes to selecting an intimate partner.<ref name="Yitzchak" /> It is also common for trans men to have histories with the [[lesbian]] community or to feel that they identify better with that community because of its wide acceptance of [[gender variance]], with a number of trans men having identified as lesbian (often as a "[[Butch and femme|butch]] lesbian") before realizing that they are instead transgender.<ref name="Shankle" /><ref name="Yitzchak" /><ref name="Haggerty">{{cite book |last1=Haggerty |first1=George |last2=Zimmerman |first2=Bonnie |author-link2=Bonnie Zimmerman |title=Encyclopedia of Lesbian and Gay Histories and Cultures |publisher=[[Taylor & Francis]] |isbn=978-1-135-57870-1 |year=2003 |page=776 |access-date=January 10, 2016 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=qAZ5AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA776}}</ref>

Trans men have less success integrating socially within [[cisgender]] gay men's communities, which tend to be more body-focused, especially in terms of being [[phallocentric]].<ref name="Yitzchak" /><ref name="Schilt">{{cite book |last=Schilt |first=Kristen |title=Just One of the Guys?: Transgender Men and the Persistence of Gender Inequality |publisher=[[University of Chicago Press]] |publication-place=Chicago |isbn=978-0-226-73807-9 |oclc=587209584 |year=2010 |page=153 |access-date=January 10, 2016 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=b534IfCEi_UC&pg=PA153 }}</ref><ref name="Sumerau">{{cite book |last1=Sumerau |first1=J E |last2=Mathers |first2=Lain |author-link1=J.E. Sumerau |title=America through Transgender Eyes |publisher=[[Rowman & Littlefield]] |publication-place=Lanham |isbn=978-1538122082 |oclc=1064762453 |year=2019 |pages=60–61 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=xK6LDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA60}}</ref> Yitzchak et al. state that, as a result, they more commonly see gay trans men partnering with each other than with cisgender gay men.<ref name="Yitzchak" /> There are, however, cases of women being likelier than men to thoroughly question trans men about their motivations for modifying their bodies.<ref name="Schilt" />

Some scholars argue against assumptions that trans men are predominantly heterosexual and usually have lesbian histories. In scholars Dan Irving and Rupert Raj's book ''Trans Activism in Canada'', researchers state, "There is still a common misperception that trans men are largely heterosexual amongst those who conflate gender identity and sexual orientation. It is frequently assumed that trans men are exclusively attracted to women and have lesbian histories prior to transition." They add, "Recent data from the Trans PULSE project (Bauer, Redman, Bradley, & Scheim, 2013) challenge this assumption, with 63 percent of female-to-male spectrum trans people in Ontario reporting [[non-heterosexual]] identities and/or past-year sex with trans or non-trans men." They also argue that, based on some research, "many non-trans gay men have welcomed trans men into gay communities and have increasingly recognized trans men as potential sexual and romantic partners."<ref name="Irving">{{cite book |last1=Irving |first1=Dan |last2=Raj |first2=Rupert |author-link2=Rupert Raj |title=Trans Activism in Canada: A Reader |publisher=Canadian Scholars' Press |isbn=978-1-55130-537-0 |year=2014 |page=248 |access-date=January 10, 2016 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=dpKDAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA248}}</ref>

== Health ==
{{see also|Transgender pregnancy|Discrimination against transgender men}}
Trans men and transmasculine people often face difficulty and discrimination receiving medical treatment, due to both [[Gender_disparities_in_health#Bias_against_females|bias against assigned-female patients]] and [[Healthcare_and_the_LGBT_community#Issues_affecting_transgender_people|against transgender people]]. In the 2015 [[U.S. Transgender Survey]], 42% of 8,037 trans men reported negative experiences with healthcare providers.<ref name="NCTE USTS">{{Cite journal |last1=James |first1=Sandy E. |last2=Herman |first2=Jody L. |last3=Rankin |first3=Susan |last4=Keisling |first4=Mara |last5=Mottet |first5=Lisa |last6=Anafi |first6=Ma'ayan |author-link4=Mara Keisling |date=December 2016 |title=The Report of the 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey. |journal=Washington, DC: National Center for Transgender Equality. |url=https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf |access-date=4 June 2022 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220530062420/https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf |archive-date=30 May 2022 |url-status=live}}</ref> There is a lack of credible research about how to provide adequate healthcare to transmasculine people undergoing medical transition, notably with doctors having difficulty diagnosing breast cancer in people who have undergone [[Sex reassignment surgery (female-to-male)|top surgery]].<ref>{{cite journal |last1=Patel |first1=Jharna M. |last2=Dolitsky |first2=Shelley |last3=Bachman |first3=Gloria A. |last4=Buckley de Meritens |first4=Alexandre |title=Gynecologic cancer screening in the transgender male population and its current challenges |journal=Maturitas |publisher=Elsevier BV |volume=129 |date=20 August 2019 |issn=0378-5122 |doi=10.1016/j.maturitas.2019.08.009 |pages=40–44|pmid=31547911 |s2cid=201958946 }}</ref> HIV infection between trans men and others is still increasing.<ref name="TangTang2016">{{cite journal |last1=Tang |first1=Songyuan |last2=Tang |first2=Weiming |last3=Meyers |first3=Kathrine |last4=Chan |first4=Polin |last5=Chen |first5=Zhongdan |last6=Tucker |first6=Joseph D. |title=HIV epidemiology and responses among men who have sex with men and transgender individuals in China: a scoping review |journal=BMC Infectious Diseases |date=20 October 2016 |volume=16 |issue=1 |page=588 |doi=10.1186/s12879-016-1904-5 |pmid=27765021 |pmc=5073436 }}</ref>

Some trans experience [[menstruation]] or choose to become [[transgender pregnancy|pregnant]].<ref name=":1">{{Cite book |last1=Frank |first1=S. E. |last2=Dellaria |first2=Jac |title=The Palgrave Handbook of Critical Menstruation Studies |chapter=Navigating the Binary: A Visual Narrative of Trans and Genderqueer Menstruation |date=25 July 2020 |pages=69–76 |publication-place=Singapore |publisher=Springer Singapore |language=en |doi=10.1007/978-981-15-0614-7_7 |isbn=978-981-15-0613-0 |pmid=33347161 |doi-access=free}}</ref>{{rp|1}} <ref name=":4">{{Cite journal |last1=Obedin-Maliver |first1=Juno |last2=Makadon |first2=Harvey J |title=Transgender men and pregnancy |journal=Obstetric Medicine |volume=9 |issue=1 |date=28 October 2015 |pages=4–8 |language=en |doi=10.1177/1753495X15612658 |pmc=4790470 |pmid=27030799 |issn=1753-495X}}</ref> This depends on what decisions they make regarding hormones and surgery.<ref name=":1" /><ref name=":4" /> According to surveys compiled by Medicare for Australia, 75 male-identifying parents gave birth in Australia in 2016, and 40 in 2017.<ref>{{Cite news |url=https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/20/the-dad-who-gave-birth-pregnant-trans-freddy-mcconnell |title=The dad who gave birth: 'Being pregnant doesn't change me being a trans man' |first=Simon |last=Hattenstone |work=The Guardian |date=20 April 2019 |access-date=4 June 2022}}</ref>

== Discrimination ==
{{main|Discrimination against transgender men}}
Transgender men can face discrimination as a result of their status as trans men. Such discrimination may include sexual violence.<ref name=":0">{{cite news |last=Chonwilai |first=Sulaiporn |date=17 May 2016 |title=Trans community still faces violence |work=[[Bangkok Post]] |url=http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/976353/trans-community-still-faces-violence |access-date=4 June 2022}}</ref>

== See also ==
* [[Trans woman]]
* [[List of transgender people]]
* [[List of transgender-related topics]]

== Notes ==
{{notelist}}

== References ==
{{reflist}}

== Further reading ==
* ''Becoming a Visible Man'' by [[Jamison Green]]
* ''Just Add Hormones: An Insider's Guide to the Transsexual Experience'' by [[Matt Kailey]]
* ''Transmen and FTMs: Identities, Bodies, Genders, and Sexualities'' by [[Jason Cromwell]]
* ''FTM: Female-to-Male Transsexuals in Society''. by [[Aaron H. Devor]]
* ''Second Son: Transitioning Toward My Destiny, Love and Life'' by [[Ryan Sallans]]

== External links ==
* {{dmoz|Society/Transgendered/Female_to_Male/|Transman}}
* [http://www.nickgorton.org/ Medical Therapy and Health Maintenance for Transgender Men: A Guide For Health Care Providers] free [[ebook]], {{ISBN|0-9773250-0-8}}
* [http://transguys.com/ TransGuys.com] A magazine for trans men
* [http://www.ftmi.org/ FTM International] An organization serving the female-to-male trans community.
* [https://originalplumbing.bigcartel.com/ Original Plumbing magazine] Quarterly magazine with online component focusing on culture and diversity in the trans male community.

{{Navboxes
|list =
{{Transgender footer}}
{{LGBT|selected=identities|orientation=yes|state=collapsed|main=expanded}}
}}
{{Authority control}}

[[Category:Trans men| ]]
[[Category:Terms for men]]
[[Category:Transgender identities]]

[[sv:FtM]]

User:HelixxUnderscore/redwarnRules.json

2022-06-24T21:10:53Z

HelixxUnderscore: Updating user Rule Database (RW 16.1)

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User talk:102.182.145.69

2022-06-09T20:28:20Z

HelixxUnderscore: Notification: speedy deletion nomination of :Draft:Nico Phooko.The Music Painter.

== Welcome! ==

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==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Draft:Nico Phooko.The Music Painter]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
{{Quote box|quote=If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read [[WP:Your first article|the guide to writing your first article]].You may want to consider using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] to help you create articles.|width=20%|align=right}}
A tag has been placed on [[:Draft:Nico Phooko.The Music Painter]], requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G11|section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read [[Wikipedia:Spam|the guidelines on spam]] and [[Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations]] for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Draft:Nico Phooko.The Music Painter|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=Draft%3ANico+Phooko.The+Music+Painter|deleting administrator}}.   [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 20:28, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

User talk:205.167.54.89

2022-06-09T17:38:06Z

HelixxUnderscore: Note: Editing tests (RW 16.1)

== idc kys ==

[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at [[:Apple Fire]]. Your edits appear to constitute [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Repeated vandalism may result in the [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|loss of editing privileges]]. Thank you. --[[User:LPS and MLP Fan|LPS and MLP Fan]] ([[User talk:LPS and MLP Fan|Littlest Pet Shop]] and [[Special:Contributions/LPS and MLP Fan|My Little Pony]] Fan) 13:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

== May 2022 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/205.167.54.89|your recent contributions]], such as the edit(s) you made to [[:Apple Fire]], did not appear to be constructive and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|policies and guidelines]]. You can find information about these at our [[Help:Getting started|welcome page]] which also provides further information about [[Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia|contributing constructively to this encyclopedia]]. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]] for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on [[User_talk:Blaze Wolf|my talk page]]. Thank you. ― [[User:Blaze Wolf|Blaze Wolf]][[User talk:Blaze Wolf|Talk]]Blaze Wolf#6545 13:10, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]]. An edit that you recently made to [[:Tecumseh]] seemed to be a test and has been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you want to practice editing, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on [[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|my talk page]]. Thanks! [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 17:38, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
{{Block indent|''If this is a [[Network address translation|shared IP address]], and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|creating an account]] for yourself or [[Special:UserLogin|logging in with an existing account]] so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.''}}

Tecumseh

2022-06-09T17:36:34Z

HelixxUnderscore: Undid revision 1092336196 by 205.167.54.89 (talk)

{{short description |Shawnee Native American military leader}}
{{Other uses}}
{{Featured article}}
{{Use mdy dates|date= March 2021}}
{{Infobox person
| name = Tecumseh
| image = Tecumseh02.jpg
| caption = Painting of Tecumseh based on an 1808 sketch{{#tag:ref|This 1915 painting is based on a black and white engraving published by [[Benson John Lossing]] in 1868. Before Lossing's was published, no authentic portrait of Tecumseh was known to exist. Lossing said his portrait was based on a sketch of Tecumseh made in 1808 by Pierre Le Dru, a French trader in Vincennes. Lossing altered the original by putting Tecumseh in a British Army uniform, based on the erroneous belief that Tecumseh had been appointed a brigadier general.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp= facing 210, 402–03}}|group= note}}
| alt = Tecumseh in red military uniform
| birth_date = {{circa|1768}}
| birth_place = Likely near present-day [[Chillicothe, Ohio]], U.S.
| death_date = October 5, 1813 (aged about 45)
| death_place = [[Delaware Nation at Moraviantown|Moraviantown]], [[Upper Canada]]
| death_cause = Killed in the [[Battle of the Thames]]
| nationality = [[Shawnee]]
| known for = Organizing Native American resistance to [[Territorial evolution of the United States|U.S. expansion]]
| relatives = {{ubl|[[Cheeseekau]] (brother)|[[Tenskwatawa]] (brother)}}
}}

'''Tecumseh''' ({{IPAc-en|lang|t|ɪ|ˈ|k|ʌ|m|s|ə|,_|-|s|i}} {{respell|tih|KUM|sə|,_|-|see}}; {{circa|1768}}{{snd}}October 5, 1813) was a [[Shawnee]] chief and warrior who promoted resistance to the [[Territorial evolution of the United States|expansion of the United States]] onto [[Native Americans in the United States|Native American]] lands. A persuasive orator, Tecumseh traveled widely, forming a [[Tecumseh's confederacy|Native American confederacy]] and promoting intertribal unity. Even though his efforts to unite Native Americans ended with his death in the [[War of 1812]], he became an iconic [[folk hero]] in American, Indigenous, and Canadian popular history.

Tecumseh was born in what is now Ohio, at a time when the far-flung Shawnees were reuniting in their [[Ohio Country]] homeland. During his childhood, the Shawnees lost territory to the expanding [[Thirteen Colonies|American colonies]] in a series of border conflicts. Tecumseh's father was killed in [[Battle of Point Pleasant |battle against American colonists]] in 1774. Tecumseh was thereafter mentored by his older brother [[Cheeseekau]], a noted war chief who died fighting Americans in 1792. As a young war leader, Tecumseh joined Shawnee Chief [[Blue Jacket]]'s armed struggle against further American encroachment, which ended in defeat at the [[Battle of Fallen Timbers]] in 1794 and with the loss of most of Ohio in the 1795 [[Treaty of Greenville]].

In 1805, Tecumseh's younger brother [[Tenskwatawa]], who came to be known as the Shawnee Prophet, founded a religious movement that called upon Native Americans to reject European influences and return to a more traditional lifestyle. In 1808, Tecumseh and Tenskwatawa established [[Prophetstown State Park|Prophetstown]], a village in present-day [[Indiana]], that grew into a large, multi-tribal community. Tecumseh traveled constantly, spreading the Prophet's message and eclipsing his brother in prominence. Tecumseh proclaimed that Native Americans owned their lands in common and urged tribes not to cede more territory unless all agreed. His message alarmed American leaders as well as Native leaders who sought accommodation with the United States. In 1811, when Tecumseh was in the South recruiting allies, Americans under [[William Henry Harrison]] defeated Tenskwatawa at the [[Battle of Tippecanoe]] and destroyed Prophetstown.

In the War of 1812, Tecumseh joined his cause with the British, recruited warriors, and helped [[Siege of Detroit|capture Detroit]] in August 1812. The following year he led an unsuccessful campaign against the United States in Ohio and Indiana. When U.S. naval forces took control of Lake Erie in 1813, Tecumseh reluctantly retreated with the British into [[Upper Canada]], where American forces engaged them at the [[Battle of the Thames]] on October 5, 1813, in which Tecumseh was killed. His death caused his confederacy to collapse. The lands he had fought to defend were eventually ceded to the U.S. government. His legacy as one of the most celebrated Native Americans in history grew in the years after his death, although details of his life have often been obscured by mythology.

==Early life==
{{further|Family of Tecumseh}}
[[File:Shawnee towns in Ohio to 1808.png|thumb|upright=1.5|alt=Shawnees retreat further from the Ohio River as towns are destroyed in American raids.|Map of Shawnee towns in the Ohio region from 1768 to 1808, indicating where Tecumseh lived]]

Tecumseh was born in [[Shawnee]] territory in what is now [[Ohio]] between 1764 and 1771. The best evidence suggests a birthdate of around March 1768.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=22}}{{#tag:ref|Tecumseh was not mentioned in contemporary historical documents for about the first 40 years of his life, so historians have reconstructed his early experiences based on later testimony.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=413 n1}} Interpretations vary in the dating of early events and the differentiation between legend and history. Tecumseh first appears in historical documents around 1808.{{sfn|Dowd|1992|p=328}}{{sfn|Antal|1997|p=20}}|group=note}}

The Shawnee pronunciation of his name has traditionally been rendered by non-Shawnee sources as "Tecumthé".{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=23}}{{#tag:ref|No one knows how Tecumseh himself would have pronounced his name. There are no standard Roman-alphabet orthographies for rendering the Shawnee language, and among orthographies that have been used, none employ a "c" by itself or an "é". According to Sugden, Shawnees pronounce the ''s'' in Tecumseh as ''[[voiceless interdental fricative|th]],'' and noted that Tecumseh's Shawnee friend [[Captain Logan|James Logan]] gave his full name as "We-the-cumpt-te".{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=415 n19}} Gatschet (1895) gives the name in Shawnee as ''Tekámthi'' or ''Tkámthi'', which is derived from ''níla ni tkamáthka,'' meaning "I cross the path or way (of an animate being)."{{sfn|Gatschet|1895|p=91}}|group=note}} He was born into the Panther clan of the [[Kispoko]] division of the Shawnee tribe. Like most Shawnees, his name indicated his clan: translations of his name from the [[Shawnee language]] include "I Cross the Way", and "Shooting Star", references to a meteor associated with the Panther clan.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=23}}

Later stories claimed that Tecumseh was named after a shooting star that appeared at his birth, although his father and most of his siblings, as members of the Panther clan, were named after the same meteor.{{sfn|Gatschet|1895|p=91}}{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=14, 23}}{{#tag:ref|In Tecumseh's time the Shawnee were organized into five tribal divisions or [[sept]]s: Kispoko, [[Chalahgawtha]] (Chillicothe), [[Mekoche]], [[Pekowi]], and [[Hathawekela]]. Each Shawnee person also belonged to a clan (''m'shoma''), such as Panther, Turtle, and Turkey. Each clan had a peace chief (''hokima'') and war chief (''neenawtooma''). Each division often had a principal town named after the division. Clan leaders sat on a town council, which made important decisions by consensus. The town council sometimes appointed a clan leader to be the ceremonial hokima to speak for the town. When a clan hokima died, the town leaders selected his successor from among his sons. War chiefs were selected from successful war leaders. Shawnee chiefs had no coercive powers; they led by persuasion and example.{{sfn|Lakomäki|2014|pp=14–20, 36}}|group=note}}

Tecumseh was likely born in the Shawnee town of Chillicothe, in the [[Scioto River]] valley, near present-day [[Chillicothe, Ohio]], or in a nearby Kispoko village.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=18–19, 22}}{{#tag:ref|In 1777, many Shawnees moved away from the Scioto River to be less exposed to American attacks, establishing a new Chillicothe on the [[Little Miami River]] (present-day [[Oldtown, Ohio]]). In the early 20th century, people mistakenly identified this newer Chillicothe as Tecumseh's birthplace, unaware the town did not exist when Tecumseh was born.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=22}} As a result, the official Ohio historical marker designating Tecumseh's birthplace is {{convert|50|mi|km}} from the actual location.{{sfn|Cozzens|2020|p=445 n14}}|group=note}} Tecumseh's father, Puckeshinwau, was a Shawnee war chief of the Kispoko division.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=13–14}} Tecumseh's mother, Methoataaskee, probably belonged to the [[Pekowi]] division and the Turtle clan, although some traditions maintain that she was [[Muscogee]]. His mother may have been a blood relative of [[William Weatherford]].{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=13–14}} Tecumseh was the fifth of eight children.{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=17}} His parents met and married in what is now [[Alabama]], where many Shawnees had settled after being driven out of the Ohio Country by the [[Iroquois]] in the 17th-century [[Beaver Wars]]. Around 1759, Puckeshinwau and Methoataaskee moved to the Ohio Country as part of a Shawnee effort to reunite in their traditional homeland.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=16–19}}

In 1763, the British Empire laid claim to the Ohio Country following its victory in the [[French and Indian War]]. That year, Puckeshinwau took part in [[Pontiac's War]], a pan-tribal effort to counter British control of the region.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=19}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=18}} Tecumseh was born in the peaceful decade after Pontiac's War, a time when Puckeshinwau likely became the chief of the Kispoko town on the Scioto.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=20–22}} In a [[Treaty of Fort Stanwix (1768)|1768 treaty]], the Iroquois ceded land south of the [[Ohio River]] (including present-day [[Kentucky]]) to the British, a region the Shawnee and other tribes used for hunting. Shawnees attempted to organize further resistance against colonial occupation of the region, culminating in the 1774 [[Battle of Point Pleasant]], in which Puckeshinwau was killed. After the battle, Shawnees ceded Kentucky to the colonists.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=25–29}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|pp=16, 18}}

When the [[American Revolutionary War]] between the British and their American colonies began in 1775, many Shawnees allied themselves with the British, raiding into Kentucky aiming to drive out American settlers.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=30}} Tecumseh, too young to fight, was among those forced to relocate in the face of American counterraids. In 1777, his family moved from the Scioto River to a Kispoko town on the [[Mad River (Ohio)|Mad River]], near present-day [[Springfield, Ohio]].{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=30–31}} General [[George Rogers Clark]], commander of the Kentucky militia, led a major expedition into Shawnee territory in 1780. Tecumseh may have witnessed the ensuing [[Battle of Piqua]] on August 8. After the Shawnees retreated, Clark burned their villages and crops. The Shawnees relocated to the northwest, along the [[Great Miami River]], but Clark returned in 1782 and destroyed those villages as well, forcing the Shawnees to retreat further north, near present-day [[Bellefontaine, Ohio]].{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=35–36}}

==From warrior to chief==
[[File:Black Hoof.jpg|thumb|alt=Painting of Black Hoof in American-style clothing but wearing a Shawnee turban|[[Black Hoof]] (Catecahassa) emerged in the 1790s as the principal spokesman for the Ohio Shawnees. Most Shawnees followed his lead rather than Tecumseh's.]]

After the American Revolutionary War ended in 1783, the United States claimed the lands north of the Ohio River by right of conquest; Britain had renounced its claims to the area in the [[Treaty of Paris (1783)|Treaty of Paris]]. In response, Indians convened a great intertribal conference at [[Lower Sandusky]] in the summer of 1783. Speakers, most notably [[Joseph Brant]] [[Mohawk people|(Mohawk)]], argued that Indians must unite to hold onto their lands. They put forth a doctrine that Indian lands were held in common by all tribes, and so no further land should be ceded to the United States without the consent of all the tribes. This idea made a strong impression on Tecumseh, just fifteen years old when he attended the conference. As an adult, he would become such a well-known advocate of this policy that some mistakenly thought it had originated with him.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=42–44}} The United States, however, insisted on dealing with the tribes individually, getting each to sign separate land treaties. In January 1786, [[Moluntha]], civil chief of the [[Mekoche]] Shawnee division, signed the [[Treaty of Fort Finney]], surrendering most of Ohio to the Americans.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=45–46}} Later that year, Moluntha [[Logan's raid|was murdered]] by a Kentucky militiaman, initiating a new border war.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=46–47}}

Tecumseh, now about eighteen years old, became a warrior under the tutelage of his older brother [[Cheeseekau]], who emerged as a noted war chief.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=48–49, 75}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=21}} Tecumseh participated in attacks on [[flatboats]] traveling down the Ohio River, carrying waves of immigrants into lands the Shawnees had lost. He was disturbed by the sight of prisoners being cruelly treated by the Shawnees, an early indication of his lifelong aversion to torture and cruelty for which he would later be celebrated.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=51–52}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=23}} In 1788, Tecumseh, Cheeseekau and their family moved westward, relocating near [[Cape Girardeau, Missouri]]. They hoped to be free of American settlers, only to find colonists moving there as well, so they did not stay long.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=54–55}}

In late 1789 or early 1790, Tecumseh traveled south with Cheeseekau to live with the [[Chickamauga Cherokee]]s near [[Lookout Mountain]] in what is now [[Tennessee]]. Some Shawnees already lived among the Chickamaugas, who were fierce opponents of U.S. expansion. Cheeseekau led about forty Shawnees in raids against colonists; Tecumseh was presumably among them.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=57–59}} During his nearly two years among the Chickamaugas, Tecumseh probably had a daughter with a Cherokee woman; the relationship was brief, and the child remained with her mother.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=61}}

In 1791, Tecumseh returned to the Ohio Country to take part in the [[Northwest Indian War]] as a minor leader. The [[Northwestern Confederacy|Native confederacy]] that had been formed to fight the war was led by the Shawnee [[Blue Jacket]], and would provide a model for the confederacy Tecumseh created years later.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=81}} He led a band of eight followers, including his younger brother Lalawéthika, later known as [[Tenskwatawa]]. Tecumseh missed fighting in a major Indian victory ([[St. Clair's defeat]]) on November 4 because he was hunting or scouting at the time.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=63}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=30}} The following year he participated in other skirmishes before rejoining Cheeseekau in Tennessee.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=64–66}} Tecumseh was with Cheeseekau when he was killed in an unsuccessful attack on Buchanan's Station near [[Nashville, Tennessee|Nashville]] in 1792.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=73–75}} Tecumseh probably sought revenge for his brother's death, but the details are unknown.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=76}}

Tecumseh returned to the Ohio Country at the end of 1792 and fought in several more skirmishes.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=82–86}} In 1794, he fought in the [[Battle of Fallen Timbers]], a bitter defeat for the Indians.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=87–90}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|pp=36–37}} The Native confederacy fell apart, especially after Blue Jacket agreed to make peace with the Americans.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=91}} Tecumseh did not attend the signing of the [[Treaty of Greenville]] (1795), in which about two-thirds of Ohio and portions of present-day [[Indiana]] were ceded to the United States.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=92}}

By 1796, Tecumseh was both the civil and war chief of a Kispoko band of about 50 warriors and 250 people.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=94}} His sister Tecumapease was the band's principal female chief. Tecumseh took a wife, Mamate, and had a son, Paukeesaa, born about 1796. Their marriage did not last, and Tecumapease raised Paukeesaa from the age of seven or eight.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=98–99}} Tecumseh's band moved to various locations before settling in 1798 close to [[Lenape|Delaware Indians]], along the [[White River (Indiana)|White River]] near present-day [[Anderson, Indiana]], where he lived for the next eight years.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=100}} He married twice more during this time. His third marriage, to White Wing, lasted until 1807.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=102–03}}

==Rise of the Prophet==
[[File:Ten-sqúat-a-way.jpg|thumb|alt=Painting of Tenskwatawa in traditional attire holding religious items|[[Tenskwatawa]], Tecumseh's younger brother, founded a religious movement in 1805. ([[George Catlin]], 1832){{sfn|Edmunds|1983|p=186}}]]

While Tecumseh lived along the White River, Native Americans in the region were troubled by sickness, alcoholism, poverty, the loss of land, depopulation, and the decline of their traditional way of life.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=103–10}} Several religious prophets emerged, each offering explanations and remedies for the crisis. Among these was Tecumseh's younger brother Lalawéthika, a healer in Tecumseh's village.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=113}} Until this time, Lalawéthika had been regarded as a misfit with little promise.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=113}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|pp=69–71}} In 1805, he began preaching, drawing upon ideas espoused by earlier prophets, particularly the Delaware prophet [[Neolin]].{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=119–20}} Lalawéthika urged listeners to reject European influences, stop drinking alcohol, and discard their traditional [[medicine bag]]s.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=117–19}}{{sfn|Cave|2002|pp=642–43}} Tecumseh followed his brother's teachings by eating only Native food, wearing traditional Shawnee clothing, and not drinking alcohol.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=127–28}}

In 1806, Tecumseh and Lalawéthika, now known as the Shawnee Prophet, established a new town near the ruins of Fort Greenville (present-day [[Greenville, Ohio]]), where the 1795 Treaty of Greenville had been signed.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=137–38}}{{sfn|Jortner|2011|p=100}} The Prophet's message spread widely, attracting visitors and converts from multiple tribes.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=143–48}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|pp=85–86}} The brothers hoped to reunite the scattered Shawnees at Greenville, but they were opposed by [[Black Hoof]], a Mekoche chief regarded by Americans as the "principal chief" of the Shawnees.{{sfn|Lakomäki|2014|p=139}}{{#tag:ref|In Tecumseh's era, Shawnees lived in autonomous villages with no central government, but in the 1760s they began appointing a ceremonial leader from the Mekoche division to speak for them in negotiations with Europeans and Americans, who often mistook this leader as the Shawnee "principal chief" or "king." The ceremonial leader in Tecumseh's youth was Kisinoutha (Hard Man), who was succeeded in the 1780s by Moluntha and then Black Hoof.{{sfn|Lakomäki|2014|pp=79–80, 115, 139}}|group=note}} Black Hoof and other leaders around the Shawnee town of [[Wapakoneta, Ohio|Wapakoneta]] urged Shawnees to accommodate the United States by adopting some American customs, with the goal of creating a Shawnee homeland with secure borders in northern Ohio.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=128–31}}{{sfn|Lakomäki|2014|p=140}} The Prophet's movement represented a challenge to the Shawnee chiefs who sat on the tribal council at Wapakoneta. Most Ohio Shawnees followed Black Hoof's path and rejected the Prophet's movement.{{sfn|Lakomäki|2014|p=147}} Important converts who joined the movement at Greenville were Blue Jacket, the famed Shawnee war leader, and [[Roundhead (Wyandot)|Roundhead]], who became Tecumseh's close friend and ally.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=131–33}}

American settlers grew uneasy as Indians flocked to Greenville. In 1806 and 1807, Tecumseh and Blue Jacket traveled to Chillicothe, the capital of the new U.S. state of Ohio, to reassure the governor that Greenville posed no threat.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=3–8, 136}} Rumors of war between the United States and Great Britain followed the [[Chesapeake–Leopard affair|''Chesapeake'' incident]] of June 1807. To escape the rising tensions, Tecumseh and the Prophet decided to move west to a more secure location, farther from American forts and closer to potential western Indian allies.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=156–57, 160, 167}}{{sfn|Willig|1997|p=127}}

In 1808, Tecumseh and the Prophet established a village Americans would call [[Prophetstown State Park|Prophetstown]], north of present-day [[Lafayette, Indiana]]. The Prophet adopted a new name, Tenskwatawa ("The Open Door"), meaning he was the door through which followers could reach salvation.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=168}}{{sfn|Cave|2002|p=643}} Like Greenville, Prophetstown attracted numerous followers, comprising Shawnees, [[Potawatomi]]s, [[Kickapoo people|Kickapoo]]s, [[Ho-Chunk|Winnebagos]], [[Sauk people|Sauks]], [[Odawa|Ottawas]], [[Wyandot people|Wyandots]], and [[Iowa people|Iowas]], an unprecedented variety of Natives living together.{{sfn|Willig|1997|p=128}} Perhaps 6,000 people settled in the area, making it larger than any American city in the region.{{sfn|Jortner|2011|p=145}} Jortner (2011) argues that Prophetstown was effectively an independent [[city-state]].{{sfn|Jortner|2011|pp=145–47}}

At Prophetstown, Tecumseh and Tenskwatawa initially worked to maintain a peaceful coexistence with the United States.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=168–74}}{{sfn|Cave|2002|p=647}} A major turning point came in September 1809, when [[William Henry Harrison]], governor of the [[Indiana Territory]], negotiated the [[Treaty of Fort Wayne (1809)|Treaty of Fort Wayne]], purchasing {{convert|2.5|to|3|e6acre|km2}} of land in what is present-day Indiana and Illinois. Although many Indian leaders signed the treaty, others who used the land were deliberately excluded from the negotiations.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=182–84}}{{sfn|Owens|2007|pp=200–06}} The treaty created widespread outrage among Indians, and, according to historian John Sugden, "put Tecumseh on the road to war" with the United States.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=187}}

==Forming a confederacy==
{{main|Tecumseh's confederacy}}
[[File:Tecumseh ante Harrison (cropped).jpeg|thumb|upright=1.2|left|alt=Tecumseh and Harrison facing each other with weapons drawn|In a famous 1810 meeting, Tecumseh accosts William Henry Harrison when he refuses to rescind the [[Treaty of Fort Wayne (1809)|Treaty of Fort Wayne]].]]

Before the Treaty of Fort Wayne, Tecumseh was relatively unknown to outsiders, who usually referred to him as "the Prophet's brother."{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=187}} Afterwards he emerged as a prominent figure as he built an [[Tecumseh's confederacy|intertribal confederacy]] to counter U.S. expansion.{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=111}} In August 1810, Tecumseh met with William Henry Harrison at [[Vincennes, Indiana|Vincennes]], capital of the Indiana Territory, a standoff that became legendary.{{sfn|Yagelski|1995|p=64}}{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=198}} Tecumseh demanded that Harrison rescind the Fort Wayne cession, and said he would oppose American settlement on the disputed lands. He said the chiefs who had signed the treaty would be punished, and that he was uniting the tribes to prevent further cessions.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=198}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|pp=118–19}} Harrison insisted the land had been purchased fairly and that Tecumseh had no right to object because Native Americans did not own land in common. Harrison said he would send Tecumseh's demands to President [[James Madison]], but did not expect the president to accept them. As the meeting concluded, Tecumseh said that if Madison did not rescind the Fort Wayne treaty, "you and I will have to fight it out."{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=202}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=121}}

After the confrontation with Harrison, Tecumseh traveled widely to build his confederacy.{{sfn|Sugden|2000|p=167}} He went westward to recruit allies among the Potawatomis, Winnebagos, Sauks, [[Meskwaki|Foxes]], Kickapoos, and Missouri Shawnees.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=205–11}} In November 1810, he visited [[Fort Malden]] in [[Upper Canada]] to ask British officials for assistance in the coming war, but the British were noncommittal, urging restraint.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=212–14}}{{sfn|Edmunds|1983|p=98}} In May 1811, Tecumseh visited Ohio to recruit warriors among the Shawnees, Wyandots, and [[Seneca people|Senecas]].{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=217}} After returning to Prophetstown, he sent a delegation to the Iroquois in New York.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=218}}

In July 1811, Tecumseh again met Harrison at Vincennes. He told the governor he had amassed a confederacy of northern tribes and was heading south to do the same. For the next six months, Tecumseh traveled some {{convert|3000|mi|km}} in the south and west to recruit allies. The documentary evidence of this journey is fragmentary, and was exaggerated in folklore, but he probably met with [[Chickasaw]]s, [[Choctaw]]s, Muscogee, [[Osage Nation|Osages]], western Shawnees and Delawares, Iowas, Sauks, Foxes, [[Sioux]], Kickapoos, and Potawatomis.{{sfn|Sugden|1986|p=298}} He was aided in his efforts by two extraordinary events: the [[Great Comet of 1811]] and the [[1811–1812 New Madrid earthquakes|New Madrid earthquake]], which he and other Native Americans interpreted as omens that his confederacy should be supported.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=246–51}} Many rejected his overtures, especially in the south, most notably the Choctaws and Chickasaws; his most receptive southern listeners were among the Muscogee. A faction among the Muscogee, who became known as the [[Red Sticks]], responded to Tecumseh's call to arms, contributing to the coming of the [[Creek War]].{{sfn|Sugden|1986|p=299}}{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=262–63}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|pp=133–39}}

According to Sugden (1997), Tecumseh had made a "serious mistake" by informing Harrison he would be absent from Prophetstown for an extended time.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=224}} Harrison wrote that Tecumseh's absence "affords a most favorable opportunity for breaking up his Confederacy."{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=140}} In September 1811, Harrison marched toward Prophetstown with about 1,000 men.{{sfn|Edmunds|1983|pp=104–06}} In the pre-dawn hours on November 7, warriors from Prophetstown launched a surprise attack on Harrison's camp, initiating the [[Battle of Tippecanoe]]. Harrison's men held their ground, after which the Prophet's warriors withdrew and evacuated Prophetstown. The Americans burned the village the following day and returned to Vincennes.{{sfn|Edmunds|1983|pp=111–14}}

Historians have traditionally viewed the Battle of Tippecanoe as a devastating blow to Tecumseh's confederacy. According to a story recorded by [[Benjamin Drake]] ten years after the battle, Tecumseh was furious with Tenskwatawa after the battle and threatened to kill him.{{sfn|Dowd|1992|pp=324–25}} Afterwards, it was said, the Prophet played little part in the confederacy's leadership. Modern scholarship has cast doubt on this interpretation. Dowd (1992), Cave (2002), and Jortner (2011) argued that stories of Tenskwatawa's disgrace originated with Harrison's allies and are not supported by other sources.{{sfn|Dowd|1992|pp=322–24}}{{sfn|Cave|2002|pp=657–64}}{{sfn|Jortner|2011|p=198}} According to this view, the battle was a setback for Tenskwatawa, but he continued to serve as the confederacy's spiritual leader, with Tecumseh as its diplomat and military leader.{{sfn|Dowd|1992|p=327}}{{sfn|Cave|2002|pp=663–67}}{{sfn|Jortner|2011|p=199}}

Harrison hoped his preemptive strike would subdue Tecumseh's confederacy, but a wave of frontier violence erupted after the battle. Native Americans, many who had fought at Tippecanoe, sought revenge, killing as many as 46 Americans.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=258–61}} Tecumseh sought to restrain warriors from premature action while preparing the confederacy for future hostilities.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=262–71}} By the time the United States declared war on Great Britain in June 1812, as many as 800 warriors had gathered around the rebuilt Prophetstown. Tecumseh's Native American allies throughout the Northwest Territory numbered around 3,500 warriors.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=273}}

==War of 1812==
[[File:War of 1812 Detroit Region.png|thumb|upright=1.3|alt=refer to caption|Forts and battles in the Detroit region]]
[[File:Meeting of Brock and Tecumseh, 1812.jpg|thumb|upright|alt=Painting of Tecumseh and Brock shaking hands|Tecumseh's brief partnership with [[Isaac Brock]] is celebrated in Canadian history. (''Meeting of Brock and Tecumseh'', [[Charles William Jefferys]], 1915).]]

In June 1812, Tecumseh arrived at Fort Malden in [[Amherstburg]] to join his cause with the British in the [[War of 1812]]. The British had few troops and scant resources in the west, so Native allies were essential to the defense of Upper Canada.{{sfn|Antal|1997|pp=20–24}} The British quickly recognized Tecumseh as the most influential of their Indian allies and relied upon him to direct the Native forces.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=279–83}}{{sfn|Antal|1997|p=72}} He and his warriors scouted and probed enemy positions as American General [[William Hull]] crossed into Canada and threatened to take Fort Malden. On July 25, Tecumseh's warriors skirmished with Americans north of Amherstburg, inflicting the first American fatalities of the war.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=288–89}}

Tecumseh turned his attention to cutting off Hull's supply and communication lines on the U.S. side of the border, south of [[Detroit]]. On August 5, he led 25 warriors in [[Battle of Brownstown|two successive ambushes]], scattering a far superior force. Tecumseh captured Hull's outgoing mail, which revealed that the general was fearful of being cut off. On August 9, Tecumseh joined with British soldiers at the [[Battle of Maguaga]], successfully thwarting Hull's attempt to reopen his line of communications. Two days later, Hull pulled the last of his men from Amherstburg, ending his attempt to invade Canada.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=295–97}}{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|pp=96–98, 100–04}}

===Brock and the Siege of Detroit===
On August 14, Major-General [[Isaac Brock]], British commander of Upper Canada, arrived at Fort Malden and began preparations for attacking Hull at [[Fort Shelby (Michigan)|Fort Detroit]]. Tecumseh, upon hearing of Brock's plans, reportedly turned to his companions and said, "This is a man!"{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=300}}{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|p=105}}{{#tag:ref|This oft-quoted comment was reported by a member of Brock's regiment who was not present; Sugden writes, "perhaps it happened."{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=300}}|group=note}} Tecumseh and Brock "formed an immediate friendship that served to cement the alliance."{{sfn|Antal|1997|p=92}} Brock's high esteem for Tecumseh likely contributed to a popular belief that Tecumseh was appointed a brigadier general in the British Army, though this is a myth.{{sfn|Antal|1997|p=106 n8}}{{sfn|St-Denis|2005|pp=132, 247}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=204}}

Tecumseh led about 530 warriors in the [[Siege of Detroit]].{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=301}} According to one account, Tecumseh had his men repeatedly pass through an opening in the woods to create the impression that thousands of Native Americans were outside the fort, a story that may be apocryphal.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=303}}{{#tag:ref|This incident was reported by a Canadian militia officer who was not an eyewitness; American accounts of the battle do not mention it.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=303}}|group=note}} To almost everyone's astonishment, Hull decided to surrender on August 16.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=303–05}}{{sfn|Antal|1997|pp=96–102}}

Afterwards, Brock wrote of Tecumseh:<blockquote>He who attracted most of my attention was a Shawnee chief, Tecumset [''sic''], brother to the Prophet, who for the last two years has carried on, contrary to our remonstrances, an active warfare against the United States. A more sagacious or a more gallant warrior does not I believe exist. He was the admiration of every one who conversed with him.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=310–11}}{{sfn|Antal|1997|p=105}}</blockquote>

Brock likely assured Tecumseh that the British would support Native American land claims. He wrote his superiors that restoration of land "fraudulently usurped" from the Native Americans should be considered in any peace treaty.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=311}}{{sfn|Antal|1997|p=123}} News of Detroit's capture revived British discussion of creating of an [[Indian barrier state]] to ensure the security of Upper Canada.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=311–12}}{{sfn|Antal|1997|p=105}} After his short stay in the area, Brock returned to the Niagara frontier, where he was [[Battle of Queenston Heights|killed in action]] several weeks later. Meanwhile, the British had negotiated a temporary armistice and called off further offensives.{{sfn|Antal|1997|p=104}} Tecumseh was frustrated by the unexpected British-American armistice, which came at a time when his confederacy was attacking other American forts and needed British support. In September 1812, he and Roundhead led 600 warriors to assist in an [[Siege of Fort Wayne|attack on Fort Wayne]], but the siege failed before they arrived.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=311}} Another siege against [[Siege of Fort Harrison|Fort Harrison]] also failed. Tecumseh stayed in the Prophetstown region for the remainder of 1812, coordinating Native American war efforts.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=314–17}}

===Fort Meigs===
{{quote|I have with me eight hundred braves. You have an equal number in your hiding place. Come out with them and give me battle; you talked like a brave when we met at Vincennes, and I respected you; but now you hide behind logs and in the earth like a ground hog. Give me your answer.|Tecumseh's message to William Henry Harrison at Fort Meigs{{sfn|Antal|1997|pp=222–23}}}}

[[File:Tecumeh saving prisoners cropped.png|thumb|upright=1.2|alt=Tecumseh stands between an armed warrior and helpless prisoners|Tecumseh (in white, arm upraised) stopping the killing of American prisoners near Fort Meigs (John Emmins, 1860)]]
Tecumseh returned to Amherstburg in April 1813. Meanwhile, the Americans, having suffered defeat at the [[Battle of Frenchtown]] in January 1813, were pushing back toward Detroit under the command of William Henry Harrison. Tecumseh and Roundhead led about 1,200 warriors to [[Fort Meigs]], a recently constructed American fort along the [[Maumee River]] in Ohio. The Indians initially saw little action while British forces under General [[Henry Procter (British Army officer)|Henry Procter]] [[Siege of Fort Meigs|laid siege]] to the fort. Fighting outside the fort began on May 5 after the arrival of American reinforcements, who attacked the British gun batteries. Tecumseh led an attack on an American sortie from the fort, then crossed the river to help defeat a regiment of Kentucky militia.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=331–34}} The British and Native Americans had inflicted heavy casualties on the Americans outside the fort, but failed to capture it. Procter's Canadian militia and many of Tecumseh's warriors left after the battle, so Procter was compelled to lift the siege.{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|pp=189–90}}{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=338–39}}{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=179}}

One of the most famous incidents in Tecumseh's life occurred after the battle.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=334–35}} American prisoners had been taken to the nearby ruins of [[Fort Miami (Ohio)|Fort Miami]]. When a group of Indians began killing prisoners, Tecumseh rushed in and stopped the slaughter. According to Sugden (1997), "Tecumseh's defense of the American prisoners became a cornerstone of his legend, the ultimate proof of his inherent nobility."{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=338}} Some accounts said Tecumseh rebuked General Procter for failing to protect the prisoners, though this might not have happened.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=337}}

Tecumseh and Procter returned to Fort Meigs in July 1813, Tecumseh with 2,501 warriors, the largest contingent he would ever lead.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=347}} They had little hope of taking the strongly defended fort, but Tecumseh sought to draw the Americans into open battle. He staged a mock battle within earshot of the fort, hoping the Americans would ride out to assist. The ruse failed and the second siege of Fort Meigs was lifted.{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|pp=204–05}}{{sfn|Hickey|1989|p=136}}{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=347–48}} Procter then led a detachment to [[Battle of Fort Stephenson|attack Fort Stephenson]] on the [[Sandusky River]], while Tecumseh went west to intercept potential American advances. Procter's attack failed and the expedition returned to Amherstburg.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=348}}{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|pp=206–07}}

===Death and aftermath===
[[File:Death of Tecumseh- Battle of the Thames Oct. 18- 1813 - lith. & pub. by N. Currier. LCCN91794824.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|alt=Tecumseh clutches his chest after Johnson has shot him from horseback|[[Nathaniel Currier]]'s lithograph (c. 1846) is one of many images that portrayed [[Richard Mentor Johnson]] shooting Tecumseh.]]

Tecumseh hoped further offensives were forthcoming, but after the American naval victory in the [[Battle of Lake Erie]] on September 10, 1813, Procter decided to retreat from Amherstburg.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=356–57}}{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|pp=214–16}} Tecumseh pleaded with Procter to stay and fight: "Our lives are in the hands of the Great Spirit. We are determined to defend our lands, and if it is his will, we wish to leave our bones upon them."{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=360}} Procter insisted the defense of Amherstburg was untenable now that the Americans controlled Lake Erie, but he promised to make a stand at [[Chatham-Kent|Chatham]], along the [[Thames River (Ontario)|Thames River]].{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=360–61}}{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|p=217}} Tecumseh reluctantly agreed. The British burned Fort Malden and public buildings in Amherstburg, then began the retreat, with William Henry Harrison's army in pursuit.{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|p=217}}{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=363}}

Tecumseh arrived at Chatham to find that Procter had retreated even further upriver. Procter sent word that he had chosen to make a stand near [[Delaware Nation at Moraviantown|Moraviantown]]. Tecumseh was angered by the change in plans, but he led a rearguard action at Chatham to slow the American advance, and was slightly wounded in the arm.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=363}} Many of Tecumseh's despairing allies deserted during the retreat, leaving him 500 warriors.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=363}} Procter and Tecumseh, outnumbered more than three-to-one, faced the Americans at the [[Battle of the Thames]] on October 5. Tecumseh positioned his men in a line of trees along the right, hoping to flank the Americans.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=369}} The left, commanded by Procter, collapsed almost immediately, and Procter fled the battlefield.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=372–73}}{{sfn|Antal|1997|pp=341–44}} Colonel [[Richard Mentor Johnson]] led the American charge against the Indians. Tecumseh was killed in the fierce fighting, and the Indians dispersed. The Americans had won a decisive victory.{{sfn|Gilpin|1958|pp=223–26}}{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=374}}{{sfn|Hickey|1989|p=139}}

After the battle, American soldiers stripped and scalped Tecumseh's body. The next day, when Tecumseh's body had been positively identified, others peeled off some skin as souvenirs.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=379}} The location of his remains are unknown. The earliest account stated that his body had been taken by Canadians and buried at [[Old Sandwich Town|Sandwich]].{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=380}} Later stories said he was buried at the battlefield, or that his body was secretly removed and buried elsewhere.{{sfn|Sugden|1985|pp=215–18}} According to another tradition, an [[Ojibwe]] named Oshahwahnoo, who had fought at Moraviantown, exhumed Tecumseh's body in the 1860s and buried him on [[St. Anne Island]] on the [[St. Clair River]].{{sfn|Sugden|1985|p=218}} In 1931, these bones were examined. Tecumseh had broken a thighbone in a riding accident as a youth and thereafter walked with a limp, but neither thigh of this skeleton had been broken. Nevertheless, in 1941 the remains were buried on nearby [[Walpole Island]] in a ceremony honoring Tecumseh.{{sfn|Sugden|1985|p=220}} St-Denis (2005), in a book-length investigation of the topic, concluded that Tecumseh was likely buried on the battlefield and his remains have been lost.{{sfn|St-Denis|2005|pp=141–42}}

Initial published accounts identified Richard Mentor Johnson as having killed Tecumseh. In 1816, another account claimed a different soldier had fired the fatal shot.{{sfn|Sugden|1985|p=138}} The matter became controversial in the 1830s when Johnson was a candidate for [[Vice President of the United States]] to [[Martin Van Buren]]. Johnson's supporters promoted him as Tecumseh's killer, employing slogans such as "Rumpsey dumpsey, rumpsey dumpsey, Colonel Johnson killed Tecumseh." Johnson's opponents collected testimony contradicting this claim; numerous other possibilities were named. Sugden (1985) presented the evidence and argued that Johnson's claim was the strongest, though not conclusive.{{sfn|Sugden|1985|pp=136–67}} Johnson became Vice President in 1837, his fame largely based on his claim to have killed Tecumseh.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=375}}

Tecumseh's death led to the collapse of his confederacy; except in the southern Creek War, most of his followers did little more fighting.{{sfn|Edmunds|2007|pp=197–98}}{{sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=383–86}} In the negotiations that ended the War of 1812, the British attempted to honor promises made to Tecumseh by insisting upon the creation of a Native American barrier state in the Old Northwest. The Americans refused and the matter was dropped.{{sfn|Sugden|1997|p=383}}{{sfn|Calloway|2007|p=153}} The [[Treaty of Ghent]] (1814) called for Native American lands to be restored to their 1811 boundaries, something the United States had no intention of doing.{{sfn|Allen|1993|p=169}} By the end of the 1830s, the U.S. government had compelled Shawnees still living in Ohio to sign [[Indian removal|removal treaties]] and move west of the Mississippi River.{{sfn|Calloway|2007|pp=155–66}}

==Legacy==
{{See also|List of memorials to Tecumseh}}
[[File:Tecumseh bust at the Royal Ontario Museum.jpg|thumb|left|upright|alt=Bust sculpture |Tecumseh by [[Hamilton MacCarthy]] (c. 1896), [[Royal Ontario Museum]], Toronto]]

Tecumseh was widely admired in his lifetime, even by Americans who had fought against him.{{Sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=205}} His primary American foe, William Henry Harrison, described Tecumseh as "one of those uncommon geniuses, which spring up occasionally to produce revolutions and overturn the established order of things."{{Sfn|Edmunds|2007|pp=205–06}} After his death, he became an iconic folk hero in American, Indigenous, and Canadian history.{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=389–90}} For many [[Native Americans in the United States]] and [[First Nations in Canada|First Nations]] people in [[Canada]], he became a hero who transcends tribal identity.{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=390}} Tecumseh's stature grew over the decades after his death, often at the expense of Tenskwatawa, whose religious views white writers found alien and unappealing. White writers tended to turn Tecumseh into a "secular" leader who only used his brother's religious movement for political reasons.{{Sfn|Dowd|1992|p=309}}{{Sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=207}} For many Europeans and white North Americans, he became the foremost example of the "[[noble savage]]" stereotype.{{Sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=207}}{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=396}}

Tecumseh is honored in Canada as a hero who played a major role in Canada's defense in the War of 1812, joining Sir Isaac Brock and [[Laura Secord]] as the best-remembered people of that war.{{Sfn|Goltz|1983}} [[John Richardson (author)|John Richardson]], an important early Canadian novelist, had served with Tecumseh and idolized him. His 1828 epic poem "Tecumseh; or, The Warrior of the West" was intended to "preserve the memory of one of the noblest and most gallant spirits" in history.{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=392}} Canadian writers such as [[Charles Mair]] (''Tecumseh: A Drama'', 1886) celebrated Tecumseh as a Canadian patriot, an idea reflected in numerous subsequent biographies written for Canadian school children.{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=392}} The portrayal of Tecumseh as a Canadian patriot has been criticized for obscuring his true aim of protecting Native homelands outside of Canada.{{Sfn|Goltz|1983}} Among the many things named for Tecumseh in Canada are the naval reserve unit [[HMCS Tecumseh|HMCS ''Tecumseh'']] and [[Tecumseh, Ontario]].{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=391}} In 1931, the Canadian government designated Tecumseh as a [[Persons of National Historic Significance|person of national historic significance]].{{sfn|St-Denis|2005|p=241 n71}}

Tecumseh has long been admired in Germany, especially due to popular novels by [[Fritz Steuben]], beginning with ''The Flying Arrow'' (1930).{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=393}} Steuben used Tecumseh to promote Nazi ideology, though later editions of his novels removed the Nazi elements.{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=394}} An East German film, ''[[Tecumseh (film)|Tecumseh]]'', was released in 1972.{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=394}}

[[File:Ferdinand Pettrich - The Dying Tecumseh - Smithsonian.jpg|thumb|upright=1.2|alt=A marble statue showing a wounded Tecumseh on the ground, clutching his axe|[[Ferdinand Pettrich]], ''The Dying Tecumseh'' (1856)]]

In the United States, Tecumseh became a legendary figure, the historical details of his life shrouded in mythology. According to Edmunds (2007), "the real Tecumseh has been overshadowed by a folk hero whose exploits combine the best of fact and fiction."{{Sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=200}} Only in the late 20th century did academic historians begin to unravel fact from fiction.{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|pp=ix–x}} The fictional Tecumseh has been featured in numerous poems, plays, and novels, as well as several movies and [[outdoor drama]]s. Examples include [[George, Count Joannes|George Jones]]'s ''Tecumseh; or, The Prophet of the West'' (1844 play),{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=397}} [[Mary Catherine Crowley]]'s ''Love Thrives in War'' (1903 novel),{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=399}} ''[[Brave Warrior]]'' (1952 film),{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=395}} and [[Allan W. Eckert]]'s ''A Sorrow in Our Hearts: The Life of Tecumseh'' (1992 novel).{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=399}} [[James Alexander Thom]]'s 1989 novel ''Panther in the Sky'' was made into a TV movie, ''Tecumseh: The Last Warrior'' (1995).{{Sfn|Sugden|1997|p=456}} The outdoor drama ''Tecumseh!'' has been performed near Chillicothe, Ohio, since 1973. Written by Allan Eckert, the story features a fictional, doomed romance between Tecumseh and a white settler woman, an example of the "[[vanishing Indian]]" scenario popular with white Americans.{{Sfn|Edmunds|2007|p=201}}{{Sfn|Barnes|2017|pp=218–19}}

[[William Tecumseh Sherman]], a Union general during the [[American Civil War]] and advocate for the genocide of indigenous people,<ref> Sherman to Grant, December 28, 1866, Papers of Ulysses S. Grant 16:422</ref> was named after Tecumseh.

==See also==
* [[Curse of Tippecanoe]]

==References==
===Notes===
{{reflist|group=note}}

===Citations===
{{reflist|20em}}

===Sources===
{{refbegin|30em|indent=yes}}
* {{cite book |last=Allen |first=Robert S. |title=His Majesty's Indian Allies: British Indian Policy in the Defence of Canada 1774–1815 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Y11ibcJ184oC&pg=PA235|year=1993|publisher=Dundurn|location= Toronto |isbn=978-1-55488-189-5}}
* {{cite book |last= Antal |first= Sandy |date= 1997 |title= A Wampum Denied: Procter's War of 1812 |location= Ottawa |publisher= Carleton University Press |isbn= 0-87013-443-4}}
* {{cite book |last= Barnes |first= Benjamin J. |editor-last= Warren |editor-first= Stephen |title= The Eastern Shawnee Tribe of Oklahoma: Resilience Through Adversity |publisher= University of Oklahoma Press |location= Norman |date= 2017 |pages=217–27|chapter= Becoming our Own Storytellers: Tribal Nations Engaging with Academia |isbn= 978-0-8061-6100-6}}
* {{cite book |last=Calloway |first=Colin G. |author-link= Colin G. Calloway |title=The Shawnees and the War for America |year=2007 |publisher=Viking |location=New York |isbn=978-0-670-03862-6}}
* {{cite journal|last= Cave|first = Alfred A. |author-link = Alfred A. Cave |date = 2002 |title = The Shawnee Prophet, Tecumseh, and Tippecanoe: A Case Study of Historical Myth-Making |journal= Journal of the Early Republic |volume = 22 |issue = 4 |pages = 637–673 |doi = 10.2307/3124761|jstor= 3124761 |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/3124761 |access-date= January 24, 2021}}
* {{cite book |last= Cozzens |first= Peter |author-link= Peter Cozzens |date= 2020 |title=Tecumseh and the Prophet: The Shawnee Brothers Who Defied a Nation |location= New York |publisher= Knopf |isbn= 978-1-5247-3325-4}}
* {{cite journal|last=Dowd |first= Gregory E.|date= 1992|title= Thinking and Believing: Nativism and Unity in the Ages of Pontiac and Tecumseh |journal= American Indian Quarterly |volume= 16 |issue= 3 |pages= 309–35 |doi= 10.2307/1185795 |jstor= 1185795 |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/1185795 |access-date= January 25, 2021}}
* {{cite book |last= Edmunds|first= R. David|title= The Shawnee Prophet|publisher= University of Nebraska Press|year =1983|location= Lincoln|url =https://archive.org/details/shawneeprophet00edmu|isbn =0-8032-1850-8}}
* {{cite book |last= Edmunds |first= R. David |date= 2007 |edition= 2nd |title=Tecumseh and the Quest for Indian Leadership |location= New York |publisher= Pearson Longman |isbn= 978-0-321-04371-9}}
* {{cite journal|last= Gatschet |first = A. S.|author-link=Albert Samuel Gatschet|date = 1895 |title = Tecumseh's Name|journal= American Anthropologist |volume = 8 |issue = 1 |pages = 91–92 |doi =10.1525/aa.1895.8.1.02a00120|jstor= 658447|doi-access = free }}
* {{cite book |last= Gilpin |first= Alec R. |date= 1958 |title= The War of 1812 in the Old Northwest |location= East Lansing |publisher= Michigan State University Press |isbn= 978-1-62896-127-0}}
* {{cite DCB |title=Tecumseh|volume=5|first=Herbert C. W.|last=Goltz |url=http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/tecumseh_5E.html}}
* {{cite book|last=Hickey|first=Donald R.|title=The War of 1812: A Forgotten Conflict|year=1989|location=Urbana; Chicago|publisher=University of Illinois Press|isbn=0-252-01613-0 |url=https://archive.org/details/warof1812forgo00hick |url-access=registration}}
* {{cite book |last= Jortner |first= Adam |date= 2011 |title= The Gods of Prophetstown: The Battle of Tippecanoe and the Holy War for the American Frontier |location= Oxford |publisher= Oxford University Press |isbn= 978-0-19-976529-4}}
* {{cite book |last= Lakomäki |first= Sami |date= 2014 |title= Gathering Together: The Shawnee People Through Diaspora and Nationhood, 1600–1870 |location= New Haven, Connecticut |publisher= Yale University Press |isbn=978-0-300-18061-9}}
* {{cite book |last= Owens |first= Robert M. |date= 2007 |title= Mr. Jefferson's Hammer: William Henry Harrison and the Origins of American Indian Policy |location= Norman |publisher= University of Oklahoma Press |isbn= 978-0-8061-3842-8}}
* {{cite book|last=St-Denis|first=Guy|title=Tecumseh's Bones |location= Montreal|publisher=McGill-Queen's University Press |year=2005 |isbn=978-0-7735-2843-7}}
* {{cite book|last=Sugden|first=John|title=Tecumseh's Last Stand |location=Norman|publisher=University of Oklahoma Press |year=1985 |edition=hardcover |isbn=0-8061-1944-6|url=https://archive.org/details/tecumsehslaststa00sugd}}
* {{cite journal |last=Sugden |first=John |title=Early Pan-Indianism: Tecumseh's Tour of the Indian Country, 1811-1812 |journal=American Indian Quarterly |date=1986 |volume=10 |issue=4 |pages=273–304 |doi=10.2307/1183838 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/1183838 |jstor=1183838}}
* {{cite book |last=Sugden |first=John |title=Tecumseh: A Life |location=New York |publisher=Henry Holt and Company |year=1997 |isbn=0-8050-4138-9}}
* {{cite journal |last= Sugden|first= John|date= 2000 |title= Tecumseh's Travels Revisited |journal= Indiana Magazine of History |volume= 96 |issue= 2 |pages= 150–68 |jstor= 27792243 |url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/27792243 |access-date= January 21, 2021}}
* {{cite journal |last= Willig |first= Timothy D.|date= 1997 |title= Prophetstown on the Wabash: The Native Spiritual Defense of the Old Northwest|journal= Michigan Historical Review|volume = 23 |issue= 2 |pages= 115–58|doi= 10.2307/20173677 |jstor= 20173677|url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/20173677|access-date= January 25, 2021}}
* {{cite journal |last1=Yagelski |first1=Robert |title=A Rhetoric of Contact: Tecumseh and the Native American Confederacy |journal=Rhetoric Review |date=1995 |volume=14 |issue=1 |pages=64–77 |jstor= 465661|url= https://www.jstor.org/stable/465661 |doi=10.1080/07350199509389052}}
{{refend}}

== External links ==
* {{Commons inline}}
* {{Wikiquote inline}}

{{War of 1812}}
{{Authority control}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Tecumseh}}
[[Category:Tecumseh| ]]
[[Category:1768 births]]
[[Category:1813 deaths]]
[[Category:Indigenous leaders in Ontario]]
[[Category:Military personnel killed in the War of 1812]]
[[Category:Native American leaders]]
[[Category:Native American temperance activists]]
[[Category:Native Americans in Indiana]]
[[Category:Native Americans in the War of 1812]]
[[Category:Native Americans of the Northwest Indian War]]
[[Category:People from Indiana in the War of 1812]]
[[Category:Persons of National Historic Significance (Canada)]]
[[Category:Prophets]]
[[Category:Shawnee people]]

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Baillie Walsh

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{{Short description|British film director}}
{{Use dmy dates|date=April 2022}}
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{{Infobox person
| name = Baillie Walsh
| image =
| caption =
| alt =
| image_size =
| birth_name = Baillie Walsh
| birth_date = {{birth date|df=yes|1959|12|14}}
| death_date =
| occupation = Film director
| website =
}}

'''Baillie Walsh''' is a film director and screenwriter.<ref>Baillie Walsh [https://www.nowness.com/contributor/249/baillie-walsh#! Nowness article]</ref>

=Career=
Walsh made his feature-film debut with ''[[Flashbacks of a Fool]],''<ref>Baillie Walsh interview promoting the release of :[https://cineuropa.org/en/interview/83570/ Flashbacks of a Fool]</ref> starring [[Daniel Craig]] and [[Felicity Jones]], which he wrote and directed. He has also directed the documentaries ''Mirror Mirror,'' ''[[Lord Don't Slow Me Down]],'' ''[[Springsteen & I]],'' and [https://letterboxd.com/film/being-james-bond/ ''Being James Bond''], a documentary about [[Daniel Craig]]'s tenure in the role.

Walsh has also created films and advertisements for many corporate brands including for Levis, Sony, Huawei, Citroën, Versace, Hugo Boss, Cartier, YSL, and Thierry Mugler, and has worked with actors such as [[Eva Mendes]], [[Ryan Reynolds]], [[Scarlett Johansson]], and [[Anne Hathaway]].
He has also directed many videos for music artists<ref>Baillie Walsh [https://www.nowness.com/contributor/249/baillie-walsh#! Nowness article]</ref> such as [[Oasis (band)|Oasis]], [[Kylie Minogue]], [[New Order (band)|New Order]], [[INXS (band)|INXS]], and [[Spiritualized]].

Other notable works include the hologram installation of [[Kate Moss]]<ref>Kate Moss in 3D [https://www.nowness.com/story/kate-moss-in-3d Behind the scenes]</ref> for the designer [[Alexander McQueen]], [[Massive Attack]]’s seminal ‘[[Unfinished Sympathy]]’ video, and the 2018 charity video ''Malaria Must Die So Millions Can Live.''

==Filmography==
* 1996: ''Mirror, Mirror''
* 2001: ''Massive Attack: Eleven Promos''
* 2004: ''I'm Only Looking: The Best of INXS''
* 2007: ''[[Lord Don't Slow Me Down]]''
* 2008: ''[[Flashbacks of a Fool]]''<ref>[https://cineuropa.org/en/film/83616/ ''Flashbacks of a Fool'']</ref>
* 2013: ''[[Springsteen & I]]''
* 2021: [https://letterboxd.com/film/being-james-bond/ ''Being James Bond'']

==References==
<references/>

==External links==
* {{IMDb name|0909548}}
* Baillie Walsh’ ''Curators Choice'' of inspirational [https://thecuratorsandco.com/#/baillie-walsh/ music videos]
{{Authority control}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Walsh, Baillie}}
[[Category:British film directors]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:1953 births]]

{{UK-film-director-stub}}

User talk:2604:CB00:E13:700:5495:C120:744A:E7A5

2022-06-09T16:19:29Z

HelixxUnderscore:

User talk:2604:CB00:E13:700:5495:C120:744A:E7A5

2022-06-09T16:19:06Z

HelixxUnderscore: ONLY Warning: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px|alt=Warning icon]] Please stop your [[Wikipedia:Disruptive editing|disruptive editing]]. If you continue to [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia, as you did at [[:Michael Moore]], you may be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]].  [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:18, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
{{Block indent|''If this is a [[Network address translation|shared IP address]], and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|creating an account]] for yourself or [[Special:UserLogin|logging in with an existing account]] so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.''}}

[[File:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|alt=Stop icon]] You may be '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]] without further warning''' the next time you [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia.  ~~ [[User:lol1VNIO|lol1VNIO]] (I made a mistake? '''[[User talk:lol1VNIO|talk to me]]''' • [[Special:Contributions/lol1VNIO|contribs]]) 16:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
{{Block indent|''If this is a [[Network address translation|shared IP address]], and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|creating an account]] for yourself or [[Special:UserLogin|logging in with an existing account]] so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.''}}

[[File:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|alt=Stop icon]] This is your '''only warning'''; if you [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia again, you may be '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]] without further notice'''.  [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
{{Block indent|''If this is a [[Network address translation|shared IP address]], and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|creating an account]] for yourself or [[Special:UserLogin|logging in with an existing account]] so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.''}}

User talk:2604:CB00:E13:700:5495:C120:744A:E7A5

2022-06-09T16:18:33Z

HelixxUnderscore: Warning: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

User talk:37.121.28.190

2022-06-09T16:11:24Z

HelixxUnderscore: Caution: Not adhering to neutral point of view (RW 16.1)

== June 2022 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:EDM fan 2|EDM fan 2]]. I wanted to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/37.121.28.190|your recent contributions]] to [[:Bupa Arabia]] have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the [[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]]. Thanks. [[User:EDM fan 2|EDM fan 2]] ([[User talk:EDM fan 2|talk]]) 16:09, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
{{Block indent|''If this is a [[Network address translation|shared IP address]], and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|creating an account]] for yourself or [[Special:UserLogin|logging in with an existing account]] so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.''}}

[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please do not add commentary, your own point of view, or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to [[:Bupa Arabia]]. Doing so violates Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutral point of view policy]] and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Thank you. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:11, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
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Bupa Arabia

2022-06-09T16:10:38Z

HelixxUnderscore: Undid revision 1092325412 by 37.121.28.190 (talk)

{{short description|Saudi health insurance company}}
{{Multiple issues|
{{more footnotes|date=July 2013}}
{{primary sources|date=April 2013}}
{{tone|date=July 2013}}
}}
{{Use dmy dates|date=March 2020}}
{{Infobox company
| name = Bupa Arabia
| logo = Bupa_Arabia_logo.jpg
| location = [[Jeddah]], [[Saudi Arabia]]
| foundation = 1997
| type = [[Public company|Public]]
| industry = [[Healthcare]]
| products = [[Health insurance]]
| num_employees = 1300 (2015)
| homepage = [http://www.bupa.com.sa www.bupa.com.sa]
}}

'''Bupa''' '''Arabia''' (pronounced {{IPA|/buːpə/}}) is a Saudi-owned and operated publicly traded company with 800 million [[Saudi riyal]] in [[paid-in capital]]. Bupa Arabia provides health insurance in accordance with the requirements of the Council of Cooperative Health Insurance and the [[Saudi Arabian Monetary Authority]] (SAMA).

Bupa Arabia is associated with the [[Bupa]] Group, a worldwide healthcare organization.<ref>[http://www.zawya.com/middle-east/company/profile/1000241/ BUPA Arabia for Cooperative Insurance] - Zawya</ref>

==Background==
Bupa Arabia originated in 1997 as a joint venture with the Nazer Group. Today, with more than 3 million customers, Bupa Arabia is the largest health insurer in the [[Saudi Arabia|Kingdom of Saudi Arabia]], with individual clients as well as some of the Kingdom's largest companies.

Under insurance regulations, Bupa Arabia evolved its business from a [[joint venture]] to a [[Public company|publicly listed]] company offering cooperative health insurance.

In 2008, Bupa Arabia offered 40% of its shares to the public in the most successful IPO ever floated for an insurance company in Saudi Arabia, and the remaining 60% were divided between BUPA Investments Overseas Co. and Nazer Group. In 2012, BUPA Investments Overseas Co. acquired Nazer Group's stake in Bupa Arabia. In 2014, BUPA Investments Overseas Co. acquired a significant stake in The Mediterranean and Gulf Cooperative Insurance and Reinsurance Company (Medgulf) Mediterranean & Gulf Insurance Co. which resulted in having 55% of the total shares.

== Services ==

===Bupa Corporate===
Bupa Corporate is one of the main groups of products that Bupa Arabia has developed for larger businesses and corporations within the Saudi market. The product coverage is based on the basic Council of Cooperative Health Insurance (CCHI) product/policy guidelines, and customized to give a range of options. The available cover levels range from SR 500,000 to SR 37,500,000, and there is a choice of [[Hospital network|hospital networks]]. Bupa Corporate includes four main schemes: Gold, Silver, Bronze and Blue.<ref>[http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaCorporate/Pages/default.aspx Bupa Corporate] {{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130515152114/http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaCorporate/Pages/default.aspx |date=15 May 2013 }}</ref>

===Bupa Business===
Bupa Business is a group of products that Bupa Arabia has developed for small to medium businesses and corporations within the Saudi market. The product coverage is based on the basic Council of Cooperative Health Insurance (CCHI) product/policy guidelines, and customized to give a range of options. The available cover levels range from SR 500,000 to SR 600,000, and there is a choice of 7+ hospital networks. Bupa Business includes seven schemes: Diamond, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Blue, Green and White.<ref>[http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaBusiness/Pages/default.aspx Bupa Business] {{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130515121715/http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaBusiness/Pages/default.aspx |date=15 May 2013 }}</ref>

===Bupa for Saudi Families===
Bupa Family is designed for Saudi families who don't fall under Council of Cooperative Health Insurance (CCHI) enforcement within the Saudi market. The available cover levels range from SR 75,000 to SR 250,000. Bupa Family includes four main schemes: Gold, Silver, Bronze and Blue.<ref>[http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaforSaudiFamily/Pages/default.aspx Bupa for Saudi Families] {{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130515195606/http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaforSaudiFamily/Pages/default.aspx |date=15 May 2013 }}</ref>

===Bupa for Individuals===
Bupa for individuals is designed purely for [[Foreign workers in Saudi Arabia|expatriates working in Saudi Arabia]] that are not under the sponsorship of a company or establishment. Bupa Individual includes one scheme, Basic Green. which can be purchased through the website.<ref>[http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaforIndividuals/Pages/default.aspx Bupa for Individuals] {{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130515195627/http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaforIndividuals/Pages/default.aspx |date=15 May 2013 }}</ref>

===Bupa for Domestic Help===
Bupa Domestic is designed for [[Domestic worker|domestic workers]]. This product is designed around the Council of Cooperative Health Insurance (CCHI) guidelines and is available in two schemes: Bronze and White.<ref>[http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaforDomesticHelp/Pages/default.aspx Bupa for Domestic Help] {{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130515160309/http://www.bupa.com.sa/English/Products/BupaforDomesticHelp/Pages/default.aspx |date=15 May 2013 }}</ref>

==References==
{{Reflist}}

==External links==
*[https://web.archive.org/web/20081121081446/http://www.bupa.com.sa/ Bupa Arabia official website]
*[http://www.bupa-intl.com/ Bupa International official website]
*[https://www.cchi.gov.sa/en/Pages/default.aspx Council of Cooperative Health Insurance]

{{Major insurance companies}}

[[Category:Financial services companies established in 1997]]
[[Category:Health insurance]]
[[Category:Medical and health organisations based in Saudi Arabia]]

User talk:Ecenontrib

2022-06-09T16:08:05Z

HelixxUnderscore: Welcome to Wikipedia!

== Welcome! ==
Hello and [[Help:Getting started|welcome]] to [[Wikipedia]]. Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Ecenontrib|your contributions]]. We appreciate encyclopedic contributions, but some of your [[Special:Contributions/Ecenontrib|recent contributions]], such as your edit to the page [[:Talk:Aiden Aslin]], have removed content without [[WP:CANTFIX|a good reason to do so]]. Content on Wikipedia should not be removed just because you [[WP:NPOV|disagree with it]] or because you think it's wrong, unless the claim is not [[WP:V|verifiable]]. Instead, you should consider expanding the article with noteworthy and verifiable information of your own, citing [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] when you do so. If you'd like to experiment with the wiki's syntax, please do so in the [[wp:sand|sandbox]] rather than in articles. The following links will help you begin editing on Wikipedia:
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The [[Help:Introduction|Wikipedia tutorial]] is a good place to start learning about Wikipedia. If you have any questions, see the [[Help:Contents|help pages]], add a question to the [[Wikipedia:village pump|village pump]] or ask me on my talk page. By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and discussion pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~ (the software will replace them with your signature and the date). Again, welcome!  [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:08, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Aiden Aslin

2022-06-09T16:06:22Z

HelixxUnderscore: Reverting edit(s) by Ecenontrib (talk) to rev. 1092314718 by RenatUK: Unexplained content removal (RW 16.1)

{{WikiProject Biography |listas=Aslin, Aiden |living=yes |class=Start}}
 
==Lots to add==
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Aiden+Aslin 
Lots to add out now folks, please get to it. 
[[Special:Contributions/24.78.228.96|24.78.228.96]] ([[User talk:24.78.228.96|talk]]) 07:47, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Yea, guys, someone could be saved at least. Other couple thousand lads should know he is safe before they are going to Sibir to prosper it. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/89.109.46.120|89.109.46.120]] ([[User talk:89.109.46.120#top|talk]]) 19:22, 18 April 2022 (UTC) 

==Beaten Up==
Here is a notable youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNizGwjZbo0 released 18 April 2022.
There aren't any wounds on his head or hand. So I would suggest to take out the claim of "beaten up". --[[Special:Contributions/2A02:908:957:A340:145C:A80F:AF2C:BA8A|2A02:908:957:A340:145C:A80F:AF2C:BA8A]] ([[User talk:2A02:908:957:A340:145C:A80F:AF2C:BA8A|talk]]) 22:55, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

:The article describes a video from 14 April, as supported by two [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] we trust to give us accurate information. {{tq|On 14 April, in Russian captivity, he appeared in a video in handcuffs and appeared to have been beaten up, as he appeared to have a head injury, swollen hands and was slurring his words.}} And there is no doubt he had a facial injury on that day – [https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/NINTCHDBPICT000726176174.jpg see this image]. His being uninjured, in your words, 4 days later has nothing to do with the description the article used. If it did, it would need to be supported by a reliable source, otherwise it's [[WP:OR|original research]] or the views of individual Wikipedians and hence not permitted, no matter how well intentioned. Best wishes, [[User:Solipsism 101|Solipsism 101]] ([[User talk:Solipsism 101|talk]]) 00:18, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

== Not in source ==

I have restored two {{tl|not in source}} templates. A source mentioning "Aiden Aslin, 23, from Newark" with title "Nottinghamshire man" neither confirms a year of birth, nor a birth place. [[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]] (Pigsonthewing); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]] 19:23, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

== British-Ukrainian? ==

He is referred to in the article as ‘British-Ukrainian’ but major western media outlets overwhelmingly refer to him as ‘British volunteer fighter’ ‘British fighter’ ‘British volunteer’, ‘British man fighting in Ukraine’ etc.

It is understandable that his family have recently been stressing his ties to Ukraine and that his fiancé is Ukrainian to counter Russia’s claim that he is a mercenary. But Wikipedia is supposed to be impartial and rely only on published facts. Referring to him as ‘British’, as Wikipedia approved reliable sources do, does not put him in any additional danger.

The article could mention that his family says he’s lived in Ukraine since 2018 and joined the Ukrainian Marines, there are plenty of references for that. But ‘British-Ukrainian’ is a stretch and it’s not reflected in any major media outlet I’ve looked at. [[User:User2346|User2346]] ([[User talk:User2346|talk]]) 00:29, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

:It is not really a question if he is described as "British solider" or "Briton" (as the headlines in the reflist refer to him as), but what his current nationalities are (from [[MOS:FIRSTBIO]]). The MOS aside, there is an obvious reason his being both British and Ukrainian are relevant to his situation and useful to note to the reader. [[User:Solipsism 101|Solipsism 101]] ([[User talk:Solipsism 101|talk]]) 10:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

== Was just given death penalty ==

I got an alert from Apple News he’s been given the death penalty, I’m going back. Screw this. [[Special:Contributions/92.40.200.40|92.40.200.40]] ([[User talk:92.40.200.40|talk]]) 19:11, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

User talk:68.206.150.74

2022-06-08T18:06:12Z

HelixxUnderscore: Note: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]]. I wanted to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/68.206.150.74|your recent contributions]] to [[:Wikipedia talk:Categorizing redirects/Archive 2]] have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the [[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]]. Thanks. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 18:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
{{Block indent|''If this is a [[Network address translation|shared IP address]], and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|creating an account]] for yourself or [[Special:UserLogin|logging in with an existing account]] so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.''}}

Wikipedia talk:Categorizing redirects/Archive 2

2022-06-08T18:06:04Z

HelixxUnderscore: Reverting edit(s) by 68.206.150.74 (talk) to rev. 1091651493 by MalnadachBot: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

{{Aan}}

== [[:Category:Super Smash Bros. fighters]] ==

In 2008 when many character articles were merged, there was some debate whether [[:Category:Super Smash Bros. fighters]] should be left on the redirects.(The category had about 30 articles and 15 redirects.) While some argued that no redirects should have categories, others pointed to this guideline, and deciphered that it says this is allowed. So it stayed on the redirects for for over two years, with a few reverts, and now {{user|New Age Retro Hippie}} has removed it from all the redirects with the "categories should not have redirects" rationale. I just want to know what exactly the guideline reccomends for this situation where most of the characters in the category have articles, and around a third are in character lists. 
I think that this guidelines states that if the category is to be complete, then the category goes on the redirects, not the lists. I think the real question is whether or not the category ''needs to be completed''. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' ([[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]]) 01:37, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
:I say IAR, and just keep all of them. I know Wikipedia isn't supposed to be the entire repository for all things, but this is Super Smash Bros. fighters. This needs to represent all of the characters in the series as reflected in the table on the series page. Sincerely [[User:Subzerosmokerain|Subzerosmokerain]] ([[User talk:Subzerosmokerain|talk]]) 02:18, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
::Why? We don't even have categories for similar franchise fighters such as the Capcom Versus games. Like I've said, the categorization of these characters is tumultuous without ignoring this rule. - [[User:New Age Retro Hippie|The New Age Retro Hippie]] [[User talk:New Age Retro Hippie|used Ruler!]] [[Special:Contributions/New Age Retro Hippie|Now, he can figure out the length of things easily.]] 03:48, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
:::And that's the precedent I was [not] looking for. This category seems out of place to me for Wikipedia; I'd almost call it a trivial categorization, aside from the fact there is a clear reason it exists. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 18:25, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't get the argument against categorizing the redirects. Let's forget about the guideline (it's ambiguous at best) and just ask what makes most sense for the reader. I couldn't care less about the Nintendo fauna but let's face it: the articles that are currently in the category are here to stay and should be categorized appropriately. The redirects are also here to stay: I don't think an RfD for [[King Dedede]] would last more than a few hours. Given that state of affairs, why should we leave out the redirects? To most readers interested in the topic, a category page that's missing King Dedede will be viewed as "those idiots forgot King Dedede" not "I see they were smart enough to include only characters which are otherwise considered [[WP:N|sufficiently notable]] to have their own article". (The latter is made even more unlikely by the average age of readers interested in this category) I could ''perhaps'' see an argument against categorizing the redirects if we had a decent list article that the introductory sentence of the category could point to. This isn't the case. [[User:Pichpich|Pichpich]] ([[User talk:Pichpich|talk]]) 20:28, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
:Usefulness is not a good enough reason to do something. Giving categories to these redirects implies some sense that they are notable, when they simply are not. Where is the failing in the list of characters? Heck, the list is MORE useful, as it has more characters than the category. The fact of the matter is that we really ought to be discussing the deletion of the category if anything as completely redundant to the list. - [[User:New Age Retro Hippie|The New Age Retro Hippie]] [[User talk:New Age Retro Hippie|used Ruler!]] [[Special:Contributions/New Age Retro Hippie|Now, he can figure out the length of things easily.]] 21:26, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
::Usefulness is the overarching principle behind the creation and maintenance of categories. A redirect appearing in the category does not magically confer it an aura of notability. To the casual reader, the entry is just there: he can click on it and he'll end up at some useful place. [[User:Pichpich|Pichpich]] ([[User talk:Pichpich|talk]]) 22:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Redundancy is not a rationale for deleting it. Some readers/editors like lists, while some like categories. Often, both are used. EX: List of Nintendo 3DS games. Is the category redundant to the list? No. They help different people for different reasons. I think the category should go back to what it has been for the past two years, and having the redirects listed, because it is an easy way to find information on all the characters. How would you go from [[Ganon]] to [[Ivysaur]]? There isn't a template on the page. Clicking the link to SSB, and then scrolling down to the characters section, and then clicking the link to the character list takes way too long. The category is an easy way to link all the characters, and their location on Wikipedia. '''[[User:Blake|Blake]]''' ([[User talk:Blake#top|Talk]]·[[Special:Contributions/Blake|Edits]]) 01:38, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I think the issue is the category, and the preferable approach would have been to nominate it for deletion. Which can still be done, but must now include the history of events. [[User:Ham Pastrami|Ham Pastrami]] ([[User talk:Ham Pastrami|talk]]) 02:33, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

== Categorising the Discussion page of an article ==

Last month, I posted a concern at the main [[Wikipedia_talk:Redirect|Redirect]] guideline page here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Redirect#Tobey_Black]. Now upon consideration, I may have been too [[WP:BOLD]] in adding a third item to the guideline [[Wikipedia:Redirect#Categorizing redirect pages]]. The issue here is that the categories of the [[Talk:Tobey Black]] are for an article and not a class=Redirect page. I'll post a follow-up note at [[Wikipedia_talk:Redirect]] about my concerns and explicitly state that the change of the article to a redirect was an effective deletion of the article with no disscussion/notice. Isn't some sort of mention regarding discussion/talk pages needed in this guideline? Thank-you. [[User:Argolin|Argolin]] ([[User talk:Argolin|talk]]) 02:44, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

== [[:Category:Redirects from Unicode characters]] ==

A few questions have arisen at [[Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 43#Redirects from Unicode characters]] regarding just which pages should be in [[:Category:Redirects from Unicode characters]]:
* Should only mainspace redirects be included, or should pages like [[WP:€]] also be included in the category?
* Should "abstract characters" that are represented by more than one code point (i.e. a base character and one or more [[combining character]]s) be included or excluded? These are [[P̌]], [[Β̞]], [[D̰]], [[D̬]], [[D̥]], [[D̤]], [[J̌]], [[R̝]], [[N̈]], [[%CC%B2%CC%B2| ̲]], [[T̈]], [[H̱]], [[Λ̊]], [[T̪]], [[0̸]], [[ɪ̵]], [[Ŋ̃]], [[̲h̲| ̲h]], [[Ǝ́]], [[X̱]], [[Ю́]], [[D̪]], [[Y̨]], [[Ą̊]], [[Ǫ̈]], [[Ą̈]], [[Q̊]], [[N̪]], [[B̪]], [[P̪]], [[X̧]], [[M̧]], [[Y̧]], [[O̧]], [[Þ]], [[Ʃ̧]], [[Ʊ̧]], [[M̄]], [[N̄]], [[R̄]], [[S̺]], [[U̴]], and [[ɑ̃]].
And since we're here,
* Should a bot actually do this?
Thanks. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 17:33, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
:Hmmm, should that Cat be subordinate to something more general, such as [[:Category:Unprintworthy redirects]]? Looking further afield, [[:Category:Redirects_from_titles_without_diacritics]] reflects considerable prior effort. [[User:LeadSongDog|LeadSongDog]] [[User talk:LeadSongDog#top|come howl!]] 18:21, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
::Unicode characters are probably unprintworthy redirects, I agree. I don't see how [[:Category:Redirects from titles without diacritics]] is related here.
::I think a bot ''should'' do this, because any proposed definition of "Unicode character" can be used by a bot to quickly and consistently categorize the redirects. Consistency is a big problem when all human editors interpret the purpose of the category differently. [[User:Gorobay|Gorobay]] ([[User talk:Gorobay|talk]]) 20:23, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

== Cause of death cat on redir pointing to band ==

If a person is not notable enough for an independent article, but has a redir to the band he was a member of, is it appropriate to tag the redir with a cause of death category? I can't quite tell from the main page if this is a good or bad thing. --[[User talk:SarekOfVulcan|SarekOfVulcan (talk)]] 20:00, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
* The target of the redirect should ideally be to a specific section in the band article about the member, and there should be sourced info about cause of death. [[User:Occuli|Occuli]] ([[User talk:Occuli|talk]]) 20:08, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
** On reading the band article more closely, it appears it was a solo project. I'm confused. [[Lucifer (rock band)]] --[[User talk:SarekOfVulcan|SarekOfVulcan (talk)]] 20:23, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
***Hi. I'm commenting here as Joe Faust has asked me why the two redirects no longer appear in the hang gliding deaths category. [[User:Ahunt]] removed them, as s/he felt, probably rightly, that they were not allowed by [[WP:RCAT]]. Thing is, if Denys Irving ''is'' [[Lucifer (rock band)]], then I believe [[Wikipedia:Rcat#Redirects_whose_target_title_is_incompatible_with_the_category]] ''might'' be met, as I expect Irving was not hang-gliding as Lucifer on that fateful day, but as himself, and so should be in the hang gliding dead people category, one way or another. [[User:Shawn in Montreal|Shawn in Montreal]] ([[User talk:Shawn in Montreal|talk]]) 13:20, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

::::Sorry I didn't realize this was up for debate, thanks for the note on my talk page. I removed the two cats because they were on redirect pages that redirected to a company and a band respectively. Neither the company nor the band was killed hang gliding. These really should not be on redirect pages as it looks like trying to pad out the category and make it look more significant than it is for numbers. It also runs afoul of [[Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects]] and was just misleading. These could be added back if actual biographies of these two people are written. - [[User:Ahunt|Ahunt]] ([[User talk:Ahunt|talk]]) 13:30, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
::::: I agree with Shawn in Montreal - this is a text-book case where [[Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects]] does apply as [[Lucifer (rock band)]] is mostly about [[Denys Irving]]. The redirect should be categorised exactly as if it were the article [[Denys Irving]] (using the info in [[Lucifer (rock band)]]). (I am not however in favour of keeping {{cl|Deaths by hang gliding}}.) [[User:Occuli|Occuli]] ([[User talk:Occuli|talk]]) 13:40, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
:Actually, the article is more than a little confusing. I'd be tempted to move the article to [[Lucifer (rock musician)]] since it seems that despite the uncertainty about who Lucifer was, it was always presented a solo project. And if the article is moved to that or a similar title, then I don't really see how this is any different than [[Lady Gaga]] or any other artist known primarily by their stage name. [[User:Pichpich|Pichpich]] ([[User talk:Pichpich|talk]]) 01:33, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

== Redirect templates contiguously on the same line? ==

Why should redirect templates "be placed contiguously on the same line as the <nowiki>#REDIRECT</nowiki>"? I only recently learned about this. Unfortunately, over the years I had added a large number of redirect templates improperly. I have never noticed an issue arising from it however. In any case, merely having them helps explain why the redirect should exist in the first place. [[User:Jason Quinn|Jason Quinn]] ([[User talk:Jason Quinn|talk]]) 04:43, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
: That restriction was removed in January 2006 (in {{rev|12339}}); the documentation here should be updated <ins>(unless there is another reason besides the old technical restriction?)</ins>. Before January 2006, all wikitext in a redirect page after the first newline would be completely ignored (including templates and category links). [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 16:36, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
::I can't think of another reason, so I updated that part of the text (Note 1). Other parts of the text seem unnecessary as well, e.g. setting the start of ''the sort to "{" or (most often) "}" ''; I don't remember seeing that in my six years here. The <nowiki>{{PAGENAME}}</nowiki> stuff seems unnecessary too. Can we remove both those notes? – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic '''L''']] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|(talk)]] 17:24, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

:Thanks for the replies. It's good to know I wasn't adding errors and ended up getting the documentation improved. Cheers, [[User:Jason Quinn|Jason Quinn]] ([[User talk:Jason Quinn|talk]]) 18:33, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

== Biography name sorting ==

Would using redirects to provide alternative sort keys for biographical articles be appropriate? Take [[Yingluck Shinawatra]], for example. Thai people are known and sorted by given (first) name, so the article should be sorted under "Yingluck Shinawatra" but readers unfamiliar with her name may be looking for "Shinawatra, Yingluck". Creating [[Shinawatra, Yingluck]] as a redirect for categorisation would allow both versions to appear in a category. There's a related discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:Categorization of people#Regarding January's update]]. --[[User:Paul 012|Paul_012]] ([[User talk:Paul 012|talk]]) 05:24, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

:This is a bit like a discussion linked higher up on this page, [[WT:Categorization/Archive 10#Sortkeys for geographic entities with names in multiple languages]]. That case was about "alternative name" redirects, and it was decided that categories ought to be on the redirects ''in addition to'', not ''instead of'', the same categories on the target page. However, I do think this is different, as it is a case of using the words with the same spelling but just in a different order. IMHO, these should only appear in a category once.
:It is OK to create a redirect in the form you suggest, as this will come up when someone starts typing the name in the search box. However, it should not be categorised.
:As a partly-related hint, make sure that the {{tl|DEFAULTSORT}} template has been added above the categories in the article, and uses the first name first. If someone has incorrectly inserted
::<nowiki>{{DEFAULTSORT:Shinawatra, Yingluck}}, </nowiki>
:do not just delete it, as somebody else may come along and re-add it. Instead, change it to
::<nowiki>{{DEFAULTSORT:Yingluck Shinawatra}}</nowiki>
:and hopefully it should be left alone. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic '''L''']] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|(talk)]] 17:13, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

== [[Steve Bartman]] and [[Steve Bartman incident]] ==

Why is the category Sports spectators on both? Reading this policy, I'm almost wondering if it should only be on the redirect, not on the article itself. -- [[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] ([[User talk:Zanimum|talk]]) 14:10, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
:It should only be on the redirect. [[User:Pichpich|Pichpich]] ([[User talk:Pichpich|talk]]) 14:53, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
:: Thanks for also making the change. I was unfamiliar with the policy before recently. -- [[User:Zanimum|Zanimum]] ([[User talk:Zanimum|talk]]) 15:05, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

== Quick question ==

A redirect such as [[BABYMETAL]] should not have a category like "Japanese heavy metal musical groups" right? [[User:Xfansd|Xfansd]] ([[User talk:Xfansd|talk]]) 17:38, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
:Well, depends if Babymetal is a Japanese heavy metal group. If it is, I'd say put it in the category. [[User:Dondegroovily|'''D O N D E''' groovily]] [[User talk:Dondegroovily|Talk to me]] 03:25, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

== Hard redirect categories ==

: ''one of multiple new sections posted in one day''
Should redirect categories ever be "hard" --in the sense i just now removed ''[[Out of Oz]]'' from two hard redirect categories? ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Out_of_Oz&diff=528705470&oldid=521904037 diffs])

Those two were inherited from a redirect expanded since [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Out_of_Oz&oldid=498423312 version 20 June 2012]. --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 22:48, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

== What to consider when converting a false redirection page? ==

I have a encountered a redirection page which just redirects to one specific subject, while it should add an explanation and then provide links to pages with the different sub-subjects on Wikipedia. How should I proceed? - 19:11, 21 May 2013 — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.121.58.187|99.121.58.187]] ([[User talk:99.121.58.187|talk]])  
:Sounds like you're looking for [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation]]. This is the [[WP:TP|talk page]] for discussing improvements to the page [[Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects]]. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 09:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
: [[Wikipedia talk:Policies and guidelines/Archive 13 #Accepting "WP:Multiple-cross-reference page" as a guideline]] is a related discussion. BTW, [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template talk:R from ambiguous page]] is a collection of (this and other) links relevant to the problem of ambiguous redirects. [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 12:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

== redirects for school shooting victims have a category ==

[[:Category:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting]] was deleted, however all of these redirects are now found in [[:Category:Deaths by firearm in Connecticut]]. If there is no significant mention of a person in the article being redirected to, should the redirect for them be in a category? Almost none of those listed in that category have their page, so should they be listed there at all? [[User:Dream Focus | '''Dream Focus''']] 03:57, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
:I'm inclined to say that all of those redirects should be removed from the category. The Sandy Hook shooting itself is in the category and that's all that's needed. I'll probably remove them from the categories in the next couple days, but I might forget. [[User:Ego White Tray|Ego White Tray]] ([[User talk:Ego White Tray|talk]]) 12:33, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

== Redirects without redirect templates ==

Is there a report listing all redirects without redirect templates? That is, in effect, category: redirect template missing. --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 19:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
:[[WT:Database reports]] would be the proper place to request such a thing. I was thinking of doing so myself, as I'm not aware of such a report existing. --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 00:49, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

== What is R mh? ==

While trying to figure out why [[:Category:Pages with templates in the wrong namespace]] suddenly got so large, I [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:R_xw&diff=prev&oldid=590564726 found and removed a call] to the nonexistent redirect template {{tlx|r mh}}. I seem to remember doing this previously to a different template redirect.

[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=Template%3AR+mh&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_review_log=1&hide_thanks_log=1 No deletion log entries exist for it]. What was its intended meaning, and if it did at one time exist, why was it deleted? --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 00:41, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
:As you say, there are no entries in the logs for the page, so not only has it not been deleted, it hasn't been moved elsewhere either; hence, it never existed. I suspect a typo, although for what, I couldn't say (in my opinion, these two-letter R templates are way too cryptic). Probably best to ask {{user|JPaestpreornJeolhlna}}, who created {{noredirect|Template:R xw}} in the first place. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 11:03, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
::Will do. (I thought the absence of deletion logs could have been a glitch or could have preceded the keeping of deletion logs, but the latter couldn't be true because it would likely have been impossible to categorize redirects back then due to the relevant MediaWiki version(s) not parsing anything after the REDIRECT markup.) --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 18:04, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
:::I've found [[User:JPaestpreornJeolhlna/Index of redirect template shortcuts & abbreviations]], and apparently "mh" is an initialism for "missing hyphenation". Based on what I found in that list, I've created {{noredirect|Template:R mh}}, {{noredirect|Template:Redirect mh}} and {{noredirect|Template:R missing hyphenation}} as redirects to [[Template:R from modification]]. I've ''not'' added any rcat templates to these, because examination of some others that are superficially similar ({{noredirect|Template:R mp}} {{noredirect|Template:R ms}} etc.) reveals a bewildering selection of cryptic R templates. There must be ''some'' system to it, but I don't want to pick the wrong ones. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:13, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
::::I've categorized those shortcuts with the Rcats I've been using for years on Rcat aliases. I've found that JPaest has miscatted several of these sometimes with Rcats and aliases that are only used on mainspace redirects. [[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]], the reason that {{cls|Pages with templates in the wrong namespace}} has recently grown is due to my conversions of several Rcats to usage of {{tl|Redirect template}}, which handles that categorization. I had recently cleared that cat prior to doing the conversions so the job of clearing the new entries would not seem like such a huge task. ''Joys!'' – '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]''''' [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|''CLIMAX!'']] 14:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

== "Most redirects should not ..." ==

(quote) "Most redirects should not be placed in article categories."

Previously I have supposed that few redirects should be in article categories. Now I understand that "most" may simply mean a vast majority, which in turn is unhelpful if it happens that a vast majority are redirects from mis-spellings, plurals, hyphens, etc, and redirects to diacritics, long names, etc.

I wonder whether categories should routinely be retained when an article is replaced by a redirect up one of these hierarchies
* book => series => author
* song => album => artist
* fictional character => whatever (world, book, listof characters, creator)
and no doubt others outside the arts.
* village => county => ... ?
* successive versions of a building under one name ?
Perhaps all categories should be retained by default?

That is, where WP:MERGE instructs "2. Redirect the source page whose content was just merged by replacing everything with the following: ..." it should advise replacing everything except categories.

Only as a secondary point (such as 4. check for double redirects) consider whether any categories should be deleted. --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 20:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
:I don't have a problem with your suggestions above. The "most" however still applies, since most redirects are for things like punctuation, caps, etc. [[User:Ego White Tray|Ego White Tray]] ([[User talk:Ego White Tray|talk]]) 02:55, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

:: This " redirects should not be placed in article categories" is utter crap and just another symptom of the way that increasing numbers of WP editors don't have a clue about MediaWiki categorization. [[User:Andy Dingley|Andy Dingley]] ([[User talk:Andy Dingley|talk]]) 23:16, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

'''2014.''' Moments ago at [[WP:MERGE]] talk I observed that its instruction should be revised, with links to sections 11, 14, and 16 of this talk. See [[Wikipedia talk:Merging#Bad instruction: "replacing everything" with one line |Bad instruction: "replacing everything" with one line]]. --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 17:39, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

== DEFAULTSORT ==

Perhaps the documentation should here explain when it is desirable for the redirect creator to add DEFAULTSORT as well as some redirect template. And elsewhere --eg, [[Wikipedia:Template messages/Redirect pages]]-- those redirect templates likely to be accompanied by DEFAULTSORT may be indicated.

As I understand it, only a few should generally be accompanied by DEFAULTSORT. Two of them are {{tl|redirect to joint biography}} and {{tl|redirect from member}}. R to section and R to list entry (or whatchamacallem) are two others. Because redirects of these kinds are likely or certain to carry Categories --and eventually Metadata in completed templates {{tl|Authority control} and {{tl|Persondata}}.

--[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 23:03, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

: If I understand correctly, we should recommend adding template {DEFAULTSORT} to the same redirects that are likely to carry category lists.
: Offhand I suppose we might recommend that an editor who creates a new or tags a bare redirect, and adds template {DEFAULTSORT}, should also start a category list. --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 21:52, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Moments ago at [[WP:MERGE]] talk I observed that its instruction should be revised, with links to sections 11, 14, and 16 of this talk. See [[Wikipedia talk:Merging#Bad instruction: "replacing everything" with one line |Bad instruction: "replacing everything" with one line]]. --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 17:39, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

== When not to categorize a redirect ==
:: See [[#"Most redirects should not ..."]] (currently section 11 above) regarding the substantial point. Let me repeat my recommendation:

:: So the redirect with possibilities retains the categories. -P64

Why doesn't the guideline contain a section of that name? Or do we intend that all redirects in mainspace can potentially be categorized? (I'm not considering other namespaces right now.) --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 18:13, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
:I would say that nearly all redirects should be in one of the redirect categories, such as {{tl|R from alternate name}}, {{tl|R from misspelling}}, {{tl|R from move}}, etc. Most don't belong in article categories. [[User:Ego White Tray|Ego White Tray]] ([[User talk:Ego White Tray|talk]]) 21:50, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

:: In my experience {{c|redirects with possibilities}} should carry category lists, by default the same ones they would carry as articles. FWIW Ego White Tray evidently endorses this one year ago, [[#"Most redirects should not ..."]]. Let me repeat the recommendation here --a recommendation for redirects with possibilities--
:: ''where WP:MERGE instructs "2. Redirect the source page whose content was just merged by replacing everything with the following: ..." it should advise replacing everything except categories.''

:: That is how I have proceeded (no cases of merge or move) with {{tl|R from person}} to spouse biographies and joint biographies, for example [[David Kherdian]] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Kherdian&action=edit&editintro=Template:BLP_editintro view code]). For two older ones set up by previous editors, see [[Janet Ahlberg]] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Janet_Ahlberg&action=edit code]) and [[Allan Ahlberg]] ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Allan_Ahlberg&action=edit&editintro=Template:BLP_editintro code]). It turns out that I haven't done many fictional character, novel, and book series articles this year.
:: --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 20:18, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
::: I just want to chime in that I agree with the above. Apparently we need to word the page differently to better make that point. At the same time, most redirects are things like capitalization and spelling and the like, and those should not be in any article categories. [[User:Ego White Tray|Ego White Tray]] ([[User talk:Ego White Tray|talk]]) 02:54, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Moments ago at [[WP:MERGE]] talk I observed that its instruction should be revised, with links to sections 11, 14, and 16 of this talk. See [[Wikipedia talk:Merging#Bad instruction: "replacing everything" with one line |Bad instruction: "replacing everything" with one line]]. --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 17:39, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

== 1.1 Categories just for redirects ==

: quote: ''There are a series of categories that are used only for redirects. Articles are placed in categories by templates. These categories explain why the redirect exists ...''

Many redirect-category templates now display messages that should be useful to editors. (See the preceding section re R from other capitalisation, for example.) As those messages improve, use of the templates to populate the categories becomes more valuable. For instance, {{no redirect|Lord of the rings }} is now in three redirect categories, and no other cats. All three are implemented as hard categories ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lord_of_the_rings&action=submit code]) but the first two --if not all three?-- could be done with templates {{tl|R from cap}} and {{tl|unprintworthy}} that would display blurbs as well as populate the categories.
 ({{tl|R short}} could appropriately be added, too.)

But manual replacement of hard categories by templates is not worthwhile, for that work is easy to automate.

All right? or partly wrong? --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 23:29, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
:I'm not entirely sure what you are asking here, but if you mean "Is it OK to automatically replace hardcoded redirect categories with templates that provide the same category?", then as long as this does not change the categorisation (e.g. it doesn't introduce more categories) then I don't see a problem with it, but do make sure you talk to the bot operators to make sure they don't see any problems. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 12:28, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

== This is a redirect ==

Recently, the bugs were fixed that now allow text to be rendered on redirects. For a long time, text was not allowed on redirects, {{phab|16323}}, and the only time any text could be seen was on [[Help:diff|diff page]]s and also when a redirect had been disabled to be discussed at [[WP:RFD|RFD]]. Then last November, a change was made that removed the redirect text from diff pages, {{phab|44642}}. Both of these bugs have been resolved, so it is time to look at improvements of the way text appears on redirects.

A proposal is underway at [[Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects/Redr]] to update the [[Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects#How to categorize a redirect|How to categorize a redirect]] section of this project page. Please discuss any alterations to that proposal here before making any changes. The major inclusion is the {{tlx|This is a redirect}} template that now can hold up to six [[WP:RCAT|rcat]]s along with one each unnamed parameter from any rcat. There is also a new named parameter, "<code>to</code>" that works together with the {{tlx|R from alternative language}} template and adds the [[List of ISO 639-1 codes|ISO 639 code]] of the targeted language.

If I made any errors while adding or deleting material from the section, then please by all means, bring it up here for consideration by all who are interested. If you feel there is a need for more information to be added, then again please mention it here for the same consideration. Thank you for reading and for your important input! ''Joys!'' – '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]''''' [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|''CLIMAX!'']] 20:56, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

It's been about a week since this was proposed, so if there are no objections, I shall include the new material soon. – '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]''''' [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|''CLIMAX!'']] 10:47, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

: Sure thing, [[WP:SILENCE]] says it's fine to assume nobody's against it. — [[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]] ([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 19:07, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

== R from other capitalisation ==

* {{cl|Redirects from relatives}} contains {{no redirect|Trigger tha Gambler}} and {{no redirect|Trigger Tha Gambler}}, both implemented by template {{tl|R from relative}}.

* {{cl|Redirects from spouses}} contains {{no redirect|Anusha Bhagat}} and {{no redirect|Anusha bhagat}} both implemented by template {{tlx|Redr|wife}}, which is {{tl|R wife}} in effect.

I suppose that the two redirect categories should contain only the first redirect of each pair, which represents the person who is a relative or spouse. The second, underlined redirect of each pair should be in the capitalisation category alone. (These two examples are unique in the relatives and spouses redirect categories, which are now small. I expect to populate them further, by diffusion from R person.)

Thus I think we should make a change, such as what follows in square brackets, in the notice now displayed by [[Template:R from other capitalisation]] or {{tl|R cap}}:
: quote: '''''From other capitalisation''': This is a redirect from a title with another method of capitalisation. It leads to the title in accordance with the Wikipedia naming conventions for capitalisation [or to its target if that page is a redirect], and can help writing, searching, and international language issues.''

Alternatively we might shorten the blurb, or reword it, without any specific description of the target page name. As templates {{tl|R from short name}} and {{tl|R from initialism}} do not say that the full name is the target page name (altho {R from initialism} gives that for instance).

Something like this:
: '''''From other capitalisation''': This is a redirect from a title with a method of capitalisation that does not fit Wikipedia naming conventions for capitalisation.''

--[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 22:15, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

:I'm sorry but I don't understand what you are wanting here. A redirect should never point to another redirect because they don't work (see [[Wikipedia:Double redirects]]). [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 12:30, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

:: Yes, no double redirects. But we put redirects from various alternative name forms--say, redirects from other capitalisations, R cap for short--in the substantial "redirects from" categories rather than R cap, when the properly cap'd page is a redirect. Presumably we do this because the R cap blurb includes a commitment that the redirect target is a page with properly cap'd version of its own name. That's counterproductive. Instead put those redirects in R cap but revise that redirect category blurb so that it covers those targets with downstream names rather than properly cap'd versions of their own names, which our no-double-redirect software makes necessary.
:: R cap, or capitalisation that does not fit Wikipedia naming conventions, is an example. {{tl|R alt}} and {{tl|R from incorrect name}} are two more examples. Our blurbs specify that the target is a page whose name is the proper version of the redirect pagename.
:: {{tl|R initialism}}, on the other hand, displays a blurb that admits other targets. Expansion of the initialism is a likely target pagename and it is given for illustration. {{tl|R short}} is another one. The source pagename may be a person's full name regardless whether the target pagename is that person's full name.
:: --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 19:31, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
::: In the case of {{tl|R from incorrect name}} the correct name (if not the target) can be specified by the unnamed parameter as in {{tlx|R from incorrect name|Fairfield}} where "Fairfield" also redirects to the same target, but is not the target itself, e.g., {{-r|Virginia Western Coal and Iron Railroad}}. {{tl|R from misspelling}} also has this parameter, e.g., {{-r|EXIF}}. Perhaps we can do something similar with {{tl|R caps}}. Let me massage it a bit. – '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]''''' [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|''CLIMAX!'']] 19:53, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

::: I have added wording to [[Template:R from other capitalisation/sandbox]] that may suffice. Opinions? – '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]''''' [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|''CLIMAX!'']] 21:14, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

::: Since there has been no further discussion, the change has been made. ''Joys!'' – '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]''''' [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|''CLIMAX!'']] 09:33, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

== Separate sub-category for Greek Letter Organizations (Fraternity/Honor Societies etc)? ==

It seems to be that the article [[ΦΒΚ]] which is a redirect to [[Phi Beta Kappa]] doesn't belong in [[:Category:Redirects from initialisms]] (with say [[3rd Congress of the RSDLP]]) but should be in a subcategory of it. Right now R from initialisms does have one sub-category, [[:Category:Redirects from acronyms]]. I'm looking for feelings on whether it should be a subcategory and if so, what name should be given to the category/template. My initial idea is [[:Category:Redirects from Greek Letter Organization Letters]] [[User:Naraht|Naraht]] ([[User talk:Naraht|talk]]) 15:46, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
:I actually created (and filled) [[:Category:Redirects from Greek Letter Organization letters]] (lower case l in last word)[[User:Naraht|Naraht]] ([[User talk:Naraht|talk]]) 15:24, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

== Can former names also be short/long names? ==

In other words, do names that have been [[Template:R from former name|changed]] to a longer or shorter form by the controlling entity qualify for [[Template:R from long name|long]]/[[Template:R from short name|short name]], or is it required for the long and short forms to be ''simultaneously'' in official use? [[User talk:Guy Harris/Archives/2015/11#Rcats on OS X product line|Guy Harris claims the latter]] ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Harris&oldid=603845732#Rcats_on_OS_X_product_line permalink]), but I'd like some clarification on whether this is the consensus, since I don't see a previous discussion here. ''(Clarification: Original version of this post referred erroneously to Guy Macon. This notice placed at 17:35, 12 April 2014 (UTC))''

On a related note, which is generally considered the most authoritative description: the text produced by transcluding an Rcat template; the text on the corresponding category page; something else/none of the above? --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 07:30, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

:[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] may well claim the latter; what [[User talk:Guy Harris/Archives/2015/11#Rcats on OS X product line|Guy Harris]] claims is that [[Template:R from long name]] sounds as if it's intended for cases where the "right" name is the long name, but the most commonly used name is an shortening of that name, without regards to whether the shorter version is "official"; see the examples I cited on my talk page. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 07:51, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

::Did anyone follow the link SoledadKabocha posted? He wrote "Guy '''Macon''' claims the latter" with a permalink to something Guy '''Harris''' wrote. I don't recall ever expressing an opinion on this. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 08:04, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

:::That was a mistake. Sorry for not checking more carefully (I did click preview but...) --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 08:12, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

::::No problem. I might as well give you my understanding on this.

::::Redirects exist so that when someone searches or follows a link they will get to the right place. that is the primary purpose of redirects. All else is secondary and must not interfere with the primary purpose.

::::The "r from" notation serves a couple of important secondary purposes. One of them is to tell me whether a link is wrong, such as [[Jumbo Wales]]. If I find a link to that, I should change it to [[Jimmy Wales]] on sight. A link to [[Jimmy Donal Wales]] isn't wrong, and thus does not need to be automatically corrected.

::::When I have questions on which to use, I look here:
::::[[Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects]]
::::[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Redirect/Style guide]]

::::BTW, as far as I know, "Mac OS X" has never been an Apple trademark. "Mac®" and "OS X®" are registered trademarks of Apple Inc., so you can't call your band "The Mac OS Xs", but they are two trademarks, not one. In theory, Apple could release an "ARM OS X", in which case they would have to go back to calling the OS that runs on a Mac "Mac OS X". In other words, "Mac" has always been a modifier, not part of the name. See https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-property/trademark/appletmlist.html --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 08:55, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

:::::OK, so I guess I can't call my band [[The Tubes]] either. :-)

:::::Interesting. They give "Mac OS" as a trademark on that page, but not "Mac OS X", and a quick search of [{TESS]] didn't find "Mac OS X" as an Apple trademark. The only "OS X" trademark it found (live or dead) was filed for on November 12, 2008; I don't know whether this means somebody could have come out with "OS X" prior to that, with the only protection against calling your OS "Mac OS X" being the "Mac" part being trademarked by Apple, but that appears to be the case.

:::::But Apple were certainly heavily using "Mac OS X" before Lion (and continued to use it, along with just "OS X", for Lion), and didn't call it "OS X" much (if at all) before Lion, so both are pretty clearly "official" in some sense.

:::::As for correcting links to avoid redirects, whether "OS X" or "Mac OS X" is correct depends on whether it's talking about OS X in general (in which case, if the discussion includes modern versions, "OS X" is probably better) or specific releases (in which case "Mac OS X" is correct for everything from Cheetah to Snow Leopard, "OS X" is correct for Mountain Lion and later, and either one should probably be accepted for Lion). None of "r from short name", "r from long name", "r from former name", and "r from historic name" are, I suspect, ''inherently'' wrong and worthy of correction; whether correction is appropriate or not depends on the context.

:::::[[Wikipedia:Categorizing redirects]] doesn't seem to address the issue of which "r from" template should be used in which circumstances; neither does [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Redirect/Style guide]]. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 09:22, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

::::::I agree with Guy Harris. I should have mentioned that I also rely on the instructions at each "r from" template when deciding which to use. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]])
::::::←
Again, I apologize for dragging you into this; thank you for your time and help. I had no intent to canvass or otherwise disrupt; it was genuinely a problem of sloppiness. --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 17:35, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Just to make clear, does ''former name'' also invalidate ''to/from initialism''? See for example [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=America_Online&redirect=no America Online]. --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 18:08, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

:In the case of AOL, if people generally called it "AOL" before it officially became "AOL", both might be appropriate, but it could also be argued that AOL isn't an initialism any more, in which case "r to initialism" wouldn't be appropriate. [[User:Guy Harris|Guy Harris]] ([[User talk:Guy Harris|talk]]) 18:31, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

== Breaking section links ==

I've created lots of rd's, but know little about them. Question: We can use the anchor tag when rd'ing to sections, but in practice that doesn't always happen. Is there a similar benefit to using {{tl|R to section}}? That is, is there a bot that crawls that category periodically to verify that the section names still exist, and flags the rd's that are broken? — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 19:55, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

: Hello there! I'd say there are no such bots, as I've fixed at least a dozen of old redirect pages pointing to no longer existing sections. Though, having such a bot would make a lot of sense. — [[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]] ([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 04:07, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
: See also [[Wikipedia:Bots/Status]]. A new bot could be created, or some of the already existing bots which are fixing double redirects could be extended to do that as well. — [[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]] ([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 04:18, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
::There could be quite a few broken section rd's, more than any one of us could handle. If we ran a bot to flag errors, would you or others here be willing to help fix them? — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 17:50, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
::: Well, quite frankly I'd rather help by creating a bot that would flag such redirects. :) — [[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]] ([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 18:03, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes, that would be more fun! — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 23:30, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

== R from symbol ==

What is the intended use for [[Template:R from symbol]]? Currently [[Template:R from Unicode]] puts redirects in a subcategory of [[:Category:Redirects from symbols]]. I assumed all Unicode characters can be considered symbols in a broad sense, but [[User:Gorobay]] points out some people would consider letters and numbers to not be symbols in a narrower sense. I also see things already tagged "R from symbol" like [[Γ ray]] and [[Руб]] which are not symbols, but which could be considered to contain a symbol or be an abbreviation. -- [[User:Beland|Beland]] ([[User talk:Beland|talk]]) —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 00:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

== Murder of Kitty Genovese article and categorising redirects ==
{{la|Murder of Kitty Genovese}}

I've moved various person-specific categories from the Murder of Kitty Genovese article and placed them on the the "Kitty Genovese" redirect, for example I've moved "1935 births", "1964 deaths" and "American murder victims". An editor has disputed and reverted the change stating they belong on the main "Murder of" article and not on the redirect. We would appreciate it if someone here could explain what is the correct location for the categories. Many thanks.--[[User:Shakehandsman|Shakehandsman]] ([[User talk:Shakehandsman|talk]]) 00:04, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
:Please also see as reference the discussion already underway at [[Talk:Murder of Kitty Genovese#Inappropriate categories added to the article - they belong on the "Kitty Genovese" redirect|Talk:Murder of Kitty Genovese]]. [[User:Dwpaul|Dwpaul]] ''[[User talk:Dwpaul|Talk ]] '' 00:12, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
::Hmm. Interesting question. The article is not about Kitty Genovese but rather it is about the murder, the victim, the perpetrator, and the reaction and aftermath. It is not about Kitty Genovese and so the 1935 births category doesn't really fit (would we, for example, also include the birth year of the perp?). Not sure whether they should be on the category or nowhere at all. --[[User:RegentsPark|regentspark]] ([[User talk:RegentsPark|comment]]) 00:53, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
:::Well to simply matters maybe we can put the categories of borderline relevance to one side for now and firstly deal with the most relevant categories such as "American murder victims". My view is that an event cannot be a person and therefore the redirect has to be categorised instead.--[[User:Shakehandsman|Shakehandsman]] ([[User talk:Shakehandsman|talk]]) 01:05, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes. That's what I meant above. Person specific categories don't make sense here at all. To elaborate on your example, it would be odd to see both "American murder victims" as well as "American murderers" on the same page unless it were an article on Lee Harvey Oswald. Broader point, the article is not about a person so it shouldn't have person specific categories. --[[User:RegentsPark|regentspark]] ([[User talk:RegentsPark|comment]]) 01:16, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::So, given that, what [[User:Shakehandsman|Shakehandsman]] is asking is whether, for example, it is appropriate instead to place the category "American murder victims" on the redirect page [[Kitty Genovese|Kitty Genovese -> Murder of Kitty Genovese]] and the category "American murderers" on redirect page [[Winston Moseley|Winston Moseley -> Murder of Kitty Genovese]]. [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] is suggesting that ''without exception categories should never be applied to redirect pages'', while Shakehandsman contends ''that is the only reasonable way to connect this article with those very relevant categories''. Who is correct? [[User:Dwpaul|Dwpaul]] ''[[User talk:Dwpaul|Talk ]] '' 01:25, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::(Later) Reviewing previous discussions, I think the exception described at [[Wikipedia:Categorizing_redirects#Redirects_whose_target_title_is_incompatible_with_the_category|Redirects whose target title is incompatible with the category]] would apply to this circumstance (here we are talking about a category incompatible with the target article title but compatible with the redirect title), and that this guidance lends weight to Shakehandsman's position. [[User:Dwpaul|Dwpaul]] ''[[User talk:Dwpaul|Talk ]] '' 12:20, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
::::::The question regarding {{cl|1935 births}} may be viewed as "who or what was born in 1935 - the crime, or Kitty Genovese?" Obviously, a crime that occurred in 1964 is irrelevant to 1935, so the cat is specific to Kitty Genovese and belongs at {{noredirect|Kitty Genovese}} (the fact that crimes are committed, and not born, is also irrelevant but secondary); the same goes for {{cl|1964 deaths}}. Similarly for {{cl|American murder victims}} - who or what is the victim, the crime itself, or Kitty Genovese? Again, the cat is specific to Kitty Genovese. All three cats belong on the redir. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 12:53, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::::Many thanks for resolving this matter. In defence of those who were confused about this matter, these policies aren't exactly spelled out very clearly anywhere. While they may be common sense to some, there are a few editors who don't think we categorise redirects. It's also not uncommon to see "murder of" pages containing these inappropriate categories (I think its usually a legacy of someone creating a bio article about the victim and then it being moved to a "murder of" title).--[[User:Shakehandsman|Shakehandsman]] ([[User talk:Shakehandsman|talk]]) 14:35, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
:On a similar topic, can editors please confirm whether or not we can categorise the redirect of the perpetrator of such crimes, for example adding Winston Moseley to the "American murders" category. Thanks. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Shakehandsman|Shakehandsman]] ([[User talk:Shakehandsman|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Shakehandsman|contribs]]) 19:02, 13 June 2014‎ (UTC)
::Redirect [[Winston Moseley]] has already been categorized using [[:Category:American murderers]]. Since he was convicted of the crime and is American, I assume this is appropriate in just the same way it is appropriate to categorize a redirect from the victim's name. [[User:Dwpaul|Dwpaul]] ''[[User talk:Dwpaul|Talk ]] '' 19:47, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
:::For the record I fully support the inclusion and above reasoning, I was just attempting to ask the question in a neutral fashion.--[[User:Shakehandsman|Shakehandsman]] ([[User talk:Shakehandsman|talk]]) 21:05, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

==Categorizing taxonomic redirects by date of description==
Is there any reason not to categorize redirects that are species names by date described? For example ''[[Velociraptor osmolskae]]'' (redirects to ''[[Velociraptor]]'') categorized in [[:Category:Fossil taxa described in 2008]]. [[User:Abyssal|Abyssal]] ([[User talk:Abyssal|talk]]) 16:29, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
:Can't think of any reason. It's fairly common for plant redirects to have description date categories, and certainly not unheard of for (non-fossil) animals. [[User:Plantdrew|Plantdrew]] ([[User talk:Plantdrew|talk]]) 01:36, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

== Question of whether songs belong in article cats ==

[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]] [[User_talk:Richhoncho#Categories_for_redirects]] [[File:Eye close font awesome.svg|14px|link=user:czar/watching|I am no longer watching this page—ping if you'd like a response]] czar [[user:czar|⨹]] 19:36, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

↵ [[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]] [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums#Should song redirects be categorized?]] czar [[user:czar|⨹]] 13:08, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

== "Shortcuts" of the same length as the target ==

For example, {{-r|Wikipedia:ADVOCACY}}, which redirects to [[Wikipedia:Advocacy]] - what category is appropriate for it? It is obviously ''meant'' as a shortcut, but it differs only in capitalization, which would be covered by {{tlx|R from modification}} (because it is outside mainspace). --[[User:SoledadKabocha|SoledadKabocha]] ([[User talk:SoledadKabocha|talk]]) 04:45, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

== cat|Redirects template needs to be updated ==

{{help me-helped}}
Regarding project page [[WP:REDCAT]], in the "general information note" there is a glitch:

Category:Redirects is a blanked page so the <nowiki>{{Cat|Redirects}}</nowiki> template is broken. The template now points to:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Redirects Category:Redirects]

The template should point to this page instead:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_redirects Category:Wikipedia redirects] 
[[User:Checkingfax|Checkingfax]] ([[User talk:Checkingfax|talk]]) 14:37, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
:{{fixed}}. [[User:JohnCD|JohnCD]] ([[User talk:JohnCD|talk]]) 15:02, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

== Redirects in article categories, workaround ==

Yesterday I posted [[WT:RE#Redirects in article categories, workaround]], which is relevant here. Now I post this cross-reference at [[WT:CATP]] too. --[[User:P64|P64]] ([[User talk:P64|talk]]) 17:05, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

== Split R from official name, and R from long name ==

Official names are not always longer, and the policy rationales for tracking the former ([[WP:OFFICIALNAME]] and [[WP:ABOUTSELF]], vs. [[WP:COMMONNAME]] and [[MOS:TM]] debates) are different from the latter ([[WP:CONCISE]] and [[WP:RECOGNIZABLE]], vs. other considerations). These should be separate templates and categories. For one thing, the official names cat.'s content should be periodically reviewed for cases of business and other name changes that happened a couple of years ago to see if the [[WP:RS]] coverage has caught up and the common name has become the new name, as is often the case after some time passes. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 13:50, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

== R from plural ==

I just created [[Wikipedia:List articles]] as an {{tlx|R from plural}} to [[Wikipedia:List article]]. I marked it as such, and it says it should only be used in mainspace. I disagree, I am not a fan of cross-namespace redirects but this is not one, I think the tag is somewhat wrong there. It says I should use {{tlx|R from modification}}.

I and others over at [[WP:RFD]] tend to do a bit of rcatting as a bit of gnomework when we are done, and this just seemed like a bit of gnomework, but I don't see why this should be only applicable in mainspace (article space) rather than in the backroom also. [[User:SimonTrew|Si Trew]] ([[User talk:SimonTrew|talk]]) 00:09, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
:Same here, regarding {{noredirect|Wikipedia:Meetups}}. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 09:31, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

:I'll take a wild stab and guess that if an rcat is limited in namespace scope, then it means that those who track the redirects that are categorized by that rcat are not interested in tracking that type of redirect in other namespaces.  ''[[WP:NOR|Stick to sources!]]'' '''''[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|Paine]]'''''  07:32, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

== Categories to suggest replacement of redirects with articles ==

Is it appropriate to categorize a redirect using one of the templates in [[:Category:Expand by language Wikipedia templates]]? For example, for ''chanchada'', a Brazilian film genre, I created the redirect [[Chanchada]] leading to [[Cinema of Brazil]], which mentions it. But I'd like to tag this redirect with {{tl|Expand Portuguese}} to suggest turning it into an article based on [[:pt:Chanchada|the article covering it at Portuguese Wikipedia]]. I guess I could put it at [[WP:Articles for creation]], but I'm not really begging for an article, I just thought I'd point out the existence of a source for anyone who's interested in tackling it. [[User:Largoplazo|—Largo Plazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 08:41, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
:I guess you could put the {{tlx|Expand Portuguese}} on the redirect's talk page, although of course that's not very visible to the casual reader-cum-editor. [[User:SimonTrew|Si Trew]] ([[User talk:SimonTrew|talk]]) 03:57, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

:Perhaps the redirect can be mentioned on the target's talk page along with the "Expand Portuguese" template. Also, the redirect can and should be tagged with the {{tl|R with possibilities}} rcat.  ''[[WP:NOR|Stick to sources!]]'' '''''[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|Paine]]'''''  07:35, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

== Rcats discussion ==

There is a discussion presently at [[WT:WikiProject Redirect#Rethinking "R to project namespace" & "R to subpage"]] that involves three namespace rcats, ''R to project namespace'', ''R to help namespace'' and ''R to portal namespace''. Unlike five of the eight namespace rcats that are only used outside their namespaces, these three rcats have also been used to sort "same-namespace" redirects, and that quality has been called into question. Your input would help us decide how these three rcats should sort their redirects in the future. Please come give your 2 cents or more.  ''[[WP:NOR|Stick to sources!]]'' '''''[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|Paine]]'''''  08:56, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

== Additional reason ==

Under the "When to categorize a redirect" section, should "Has potential to become an article of its own" be one of them? [[User:Iazyges|Iazyges]] [[User talk:Iazyges|Consermonor]] [[Special:Contributions/Iazyges|Opus meum]] 19:11, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

== R from alternative anglicisation? ==

I'm surprised such a category doesn't exist. There is for example the rather specific {{tl|R from diacritics}}, but we don't seem to have a broad one to cover all cases of alternative [[anglicisation]]s, like alternative [[transliteration]]s from non-Latin scripts or alternative English renderings of Latin-script names in other languages (for example, for both the ''Corum'' and the ''Chorum'' variants of [[Çorum]]). I don't know of any existing rcat that could possibly cover this ground and I think this is a ground that needs covering. Any thoughts? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Uanfala|Uanfala]] ([[User talk:Uanfala|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Uanfala|contribs]]) 07:37, 9 September 2016 (UTC) 

:{{to|Uanfala}} so sorry, I just saw this. Rcats and their maintenance categories have in the past been created whenever there was a need to fill, for example, {{tl|R from alternative transliteration}}, {{tl|R from Wade–Giles romanization}} and their categories were created to fill needs similar to what you suggest. Do you think there is a need for another rcat, or more than one?  '''''[[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User:Paine Ellsworth|u]]/[[Special:Contributions/Paine Ellsworth|c]] 00:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
::I wasn't aware of {{tl|R from alternative transliteration}} when I posted this question back in September. I think it's generally useful if a redirect from an alternative transliteration contains information about the transliteration scheme used. I don't know this fits in the grand scheme of things, as I don't know what the big picture is in redirect categorisation. If something like this is adopted, then I don't think it's sensible to have a separate template for each type of transliteration used (there quite a lot of them out there), and it's probably best to handle that with a parameter: for example <nowiki>{{R from alternative transliteration|IAST}}</nowiki> to indicate that the scheme used is [[IAST]]. – [[User talk:Uanfala| Uanfala (talk)]] 13:29, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

== categorizing redirects as though they were articles ==
{{See also|fr:Discussion Projet:Catégories#Catégorisation d'une redirection}}
I recently had an edit reverted because another user suggested that we should not be categorizing redirects as though they were actual articles. He pointed me here.

I'm not sure I interpret that the same way he does. Is that the case? The example is [[The Hell or High Water EP]] which used to be part of the category [[:Category:2010 EPs]]. (It was actually there when I got there, I just added DEFAULTSORT)

That category contains 23 redirects. If this is the policy, is someone going to clean up the probable 100s of thousands of cases like this? [[User:Fuddle|Fuddle]] ([[User talk:Fuddle|talk]]) 15:04, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
:Categorising redirects into article categories is ideally done with measure, but it is done nevertheless, as the bulk of the guidelines on this project page clearly testify. Maybe the editor who pointed you here could explain what they meant? – [[User talk:Uanfala|Uanfala]] 15:15, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
::I would contact him again, but he told me to "stay off my talk page" [[User:Fuddle|Fuddle]] ([[User talk:Fuddle|talk]]) 15:28, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
:::Judging by {{diff|User talk:Fuddle|prev|800435340|this post}}, I assume that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Walter_Görlitz&action=history&offset=20170913171500&limit=12 these] are the discussions concerned. Seems somewhat one-sided. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:48, 13 September 2017 (UTC)
{{od}}
{{to|Fuddle|Walter Görlitz|Uanfala|Redrose64}} this editing guideline, which editor Görlitz left on editor Fuddle's talk page, is very clear about redirect categorization in article categories. Whether or not any editor disagrees with this consensus, the sorting of redirects to article categories is and has been the community consensus for many years now. Anyone who reverts a valid edit that sorts a redirect to an article category in accord with this project page is going up against the consensus of the community. Rather than indiscriminately reverting such edits, the reverting editor should bring the discussion to this talk page and try to get the consensus changed. To be up front about how I would !vote, I personally see no reason nor logic in keeping redirects out of article categories when it is appropriate to sort them in that manner.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  20:23, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
: Thanks for that comment. It's an incorrect consensus then. If I, as a reader, come to a cat page and see a link to subject X and I click through to it, I expect to see an article on X. If am redirected to an article about the creator of X or some other topic that includes X, but never describes X, I will be annoyed. Not trying to change the consensus, but I'm complaining that it's wrong and will result in people thinking we're ignorant and wasting their time. I'll honour the consensus but I don't like it. [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 21:09, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
::It's a pleasure, [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]]! We'll have to "agree to disagree", since I think of this as a long-standing and correct consensus. And perhaps you missed the tech note near the bottom of this project page? If you, as a reader, come to a cat page and see a link to subject X and that link is in italics, then you know it's a redirect before you even click on it. So I really don't see a problem. Sorting some redirects to article categories can be useful and helpful to readers. That is why the consensus is in place, and that is why it's correct.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  19:14, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
::I see no difference between your scenario, in which you are following a link to X from a category page, and a scenario where you are led to subject X by any other route. What's annoying you is that the redirect is misbegotten. The fact of having been categorized by someone has nothing to do with it. If the article about the creator of X were to include the information "In 2014 she created X", then all would be clear, and arriving at X through a category would cause no more befuddlement than arriving at X through any other path. And then a user interested in getting information about all the topics in category C about which information exists on Wikipedia will have access to it. Whether the information available here for each of those topics is in an article devoted to that topic or in an article devoted to a related topic will be immaterial. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 19:50, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
:::In situations like this I usually mention {{noredirect|Honey Lantree}}. Unless further reliable sources can be found, she's notable for just one thing - being the drummer with [[The Honeycombs]]. Hence she has a redirect to the band page, but no separate article of her own. On the redirect there are four categories: {{cl|Living people}} (mandatory for non-dead people); {{cl|1943 births}} (required for biogs); {{cl|British female drummers}} (see below); plus hidden cat {{cl|Redirects from members}}, this being due to {{tlx|R from member}}. The "controversial" one here would be {{cl|British female drummers}} - this is a "Fooian fooers" cat, but can you think of anything more appropriate? If this category were on the article [[The Honeycombs]], it would be doubly inappropriate: The Honeycombs were not all female, and they were not all drummers. But omitting this cat from the redirect would mean that the likes of [[Karen Carpenter]], [[Maureen Tucker]] or [[Meg White]] were deserving of categorisation when Honey Lantree was somehow not. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:52, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
::::I've never in 12 years and more here encountered the idea that redirs should not be categorized like articles when they are a {{tlx|R from subtopic}} or the like and could theoretically be their own article (i.e. we don't so categorize things that are just alternative names for a topic, only distinct things that happen to be covered at the same article, like band members, albums, side projects, songs, etc., all redirecting to a band article). So, yes, Lantree should have that category – if it's to be retained (see new thread I'm starting next). — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 07:00, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

== Request for comments on MoS shortcut redirect categorization ==
{{Archive top|1=There seems to be support for sorting them to maintenance categories, in particular a decent amount of support for an all-encompassing template that does everything for this (e.g., {{tlx|R from MOS shortcut}}). Apart from that, there's no clear consensus for the magic combinations of applicable templates, with {{tlx|R from shortcut}} and / {{tlx|R to project namespace}} being more supported and {{tlx|R unprintworthy}} less due to redundancy with the former. Disagreements over whether the shortcuts should be categorized as redirects to subpages and most of the other issues, specifically, which categories should apply and when, can likely be handled at the template level, automatically or via additional template parameters. --[[User:Slakr|slakr]]\ [[User talk:Slakr|talk]] / 19:03, 14 February 2018 (UTC)}}

{{info|text=A [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure#Wikipedia talk:Categorizing redirects#Request for comments on MoS shortcut redirect categorization|request to close]] this Rfc was made on 14 January 2018.}}
Should MoS shortcut redirects be sorted to certain specific maintenance categories?  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  15:59, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

:Another editor, [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]], and I would appreciate more eyes on this issue. This question has been ongoing for some time and was brought to this RfC by the following two instances of opposing opinions:
:# Please see the edit history of {{-r|MOS:CAPSACRS|this MoS shortcut redirect}}, where contention can be seen in regard to whether or not it should be sorted to {{cat|Redirects to subpages}}, {{cat|Redirects to Wikipedia project pages}} and {{cat|Unprintworthy redirects}} ''by using their associated rcats''.
:# See also [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth#rcat|our discussion on my talk page]], which I bring here as extended content in the following:

{{collapse top|title={{Moved discussion from|User talk:Paine Ellsworth#rcat}}|bg2=#DFD}}
Can you please avoid adding pointless rcats to shortcuts like "MOS:{{var|WHATEVER}}"? From just one example:
* MoS pages are not subpages, they're stand-alone guidelines that happen to have "/" in their names (with a handful of exceptions, like actual supplementary subpages of [[WP:Manual of Style/Accessibility]]).
* They don't need to be categorized as redirs to project space. "WP:{{var|FOO}}" shortcuts are already in project space, and "MOS:" one {{em|all}} go there; it's implicit in their purpose, so tagging all several hundred of them is a waste of time and just bloats the rcat block. If there's some really important maint. reason to tag the "MOS:" ones with this, I could stop objecting to it, but I've been removing this rcat on sight in "MOS:" shortcuts for years, and no one has ever objected or reverted.
* They also don't need to be rcat'ed as unprintworthy, since they're not used in mainspace. (That should be used on things like hatnote templates that cross-reference different articles because our content is meant to be [[WP:REUSE|reusable]] as-is on a per-article basis.)
As someone who does a lot of shortcut maintenance, it's a hassle to have a thick pile of rcats on these things that interfere with quickly assessing exactly what they are and why they exist. The only ones we really need are shortcut (for building lists of shortcuts), and either section or anchor as applicable (for maint work on anchors that are not section links, e.g. replacing markup like {{code|1=}} and {{code|1=}} with {{tlx|anchor|something}}). — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 00:44, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
:Not sure what gave you the idea that categorizing redirect shortcuts with appropriate rcats is "pointless". MOS shortcuts are in mainspace and therefore should definitely be sorted as "unprintworthy" so they don't appear in any "printable" versions of Wikipedia, such as any [[WP:1|CD/DVD]] versions. What in the world makes you think that sorting those shortcuts to the {{c|Unprintworthy redirects}} category is not the right thing to do???  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  01:01, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
::Already said: they are not used in the text of articles, so they'll never appear and need to be suppressed in articles. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 10:25, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
:As to using the rcat to project space, do you expect that editors are mind readers? How do you expect the MOS shortcuts, which are vivid [[WP:CNR]]s, to be detected? {{cat|Redirects to project space}} is most assuredly an appropriate category for these as much as it is for other CNRs.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  01:01, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
::No editor who does not already know that "MOS:" goes to MoS pages in project space is competent yet to be doing any kind of maintenance, with redirects or otherwise. There is no need to "detect" MOS shortcuts since they all are of the same form, "MOS:" followed by something; and nothing else is of that form. If some day there's something notable in the real world named something like "MOS:FOO" then will we ever need to distinguish "MOS:" CNRs from something that isn't one. Unless that day comes, the "MOS:" shortcuts are auto-"detected", simply be being as they are. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 10:25, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
:As for subpages, you haven't made a very strong case there, either, [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]. Just what exactly makes, say, [[WP:Manual of Style/Capital letters]] any different from [[WP:Manual of Style/Accessibility]]? They are both subpages of the MOS, and I see no difference. If as you say, "Capital letters" is stand-alone, then why is it on a subpage of the MOS instead of at [[WP:Capital letters]]? Both pages are about style, so both are subpages of the Manual of Style. It seems to me that you are wrong on all counts and should be soundly [[WP:trout|trout]]ed for removing redirects from appropriate categories. Happy Holidays to you''!''  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  07:28, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
::The only "case" that needs to be "made" is that they have guideline tags on them. They are not subpages, they are guidelines that happen to have "/" in their names; please don't make me repeat myself. Do you think that the redirect [[WP:AC/DS]] is a subpage of the redirect [[WP:AC]]? It is not. It just happens to have "/" in its name. We chose to name the MoS pages this way rather than in the pattern of the NC pages ([[WP:Naming conventions (people)]], etc.) because parenthetic disambiguation was felt to be awkward or something. They could actually be moved to things like [[WP:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)]] and so on, and these do exist as redirects. The actual subpages (e.g. [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/CSS colors for text on white]], [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Glossaries/DD bug test cases]], [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial]], maybe a few others) are not guidelines and are not tagged as guidelines (I actually did find one mistakenly tagged that way and fixed it; it's a {{tl|Wikipedia how-to}}). I think you're confusing "subpage" as meaning "anything faintly like a hierarchical relationship", or "anything that contains a slash character", and it doesn't mean either of those things. A subpage is a dependent page such that were the parent page deleted the subpage would also be deleted, because it serves no purpose on its own. We could in fact delete the entire [[WP:Manual of Style]] page and it would have no effect on the other MoS guidelines, since the main MoS page is simply a summary of their most important and commonly needed points. PS: MOSCAPS isn't at [[WP:Capital letters]] because we agreed to group the style stuff under "Manual of Style" as a heading, exactly as all the NC pages start with "Naming conventions", and are not at names like "WP:People" for [[WP:Naming conventions (people)]]. The super-short names are too ambiguous to make it clear what their scope is. We do in fact have multiple pages about capital letters and about people and about most things for which we have MoS or NC pages (e.g. [[WP:Naming conventions (capitalization)]] and [[WP:Manual of Style/Biographies]], respectively; these could be more consistently named, but no one is losing sleep over it). — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 10:25, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
:::Thank you''!'' because I'm beginning to understand your reasoning as it applies to the, shall I call them "pseudo"subpages? which just means there is no rcat for "redirects to pseudosubpages". That is one of three issues to which I'm warming up. So how do you suggest we resolve the other two issues? (unprintworthiness and CNR tracking of MOS shortcut redirects)?  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  01:01, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
:::Congratulations, [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]], for your decision to run''!'' Just wanted you to know that these issues are not something that can't wait, so keep your "eyes on the prize" and may good fortune be your ally''!''  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  14:52, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
::::I guess the question is what utility is provided, what purpose is served, by {{tlx|R to project namespace}} and {{tlx|R unprintworthy}} on those particular shortcuts? The first is for things like [[Create an article]] – stuff that we expect users might want to type into the URL bar as a guess, without realizing WP has namespaces. Some other examples are things even experienced users might try, like [[List of hoaxes on Wikipedia]], which is a topic that could in theory be notable and have an encyclopedia article but which isn't and doesn't (insufficient in-depth coverage in independent reliable sources), but which we do have an internal page about. Shortcuts like "MOS:CAPS" aren't either kind of case. And by virtue of what they are, we already know they're project-space redirs anyway. If some day there's something called "Mouse-Optional Synergistics: An Operating System", and its conventional acronym is "MOS:OS", then and probably only then would we have a need for that rcat on "MOS:{{var|FOO}}" shortcuts, to distinguish from real-world things that start with "MOS:".The latter rcat is for redirs that we want to replace in displayed article text with the actual name of the article because they're "deficient" names in some way, in an encyclopedic sense; this is a pure maintenance category, for gnomes to use in fixing wording to make good sense in a printed article. There is no case in which something like "MOS:CAPS" {{em|or}} "Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters" should appear in an actual article's text.* And [[:Category:Redirects from shortcuts]] is already a subcat of [[:Category:Unprintworthy redirects]], so using {{tnull|R unprintworthy}} when {{tlx|R from shortcut}} is already used is redundant. [* In theory, there could be one someday: INDY RS could eventually write a whole bunch of stuff about WP's MoS and make it real-world notable. That's a bridge to cross if we come to it.]So, it's not that these redir categorizations are "dead wrong" or whatever, it's just unnecessary, and both a waste of your editorial time to add these rcats on these shortcuts (and perhaps of other editors' time, in maintaining them later), as well as an annoyance to the actual maintainers of the MOS shortcuts (which may not even be plural – it may just be me!) by doubling the rcats per shortcut and slowing down the correction of things like an {{tlx|R to anchor}} needing to be changed to {{tlx|R to section}} or vice versa, and sometimes a concurrent update to the exact in-page target; aside from a missing {{tnull|R from shortcut}} on a few of them, that's all the maint they need. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 00:48, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
::::: {{to|SMcCandlish}} I've thought a lot about my response to your question about utility, and I hope that you will approve and agree with me. In terms of the printability rcat, it's true that both {{tl|R from shortcut}} and {{tl|R to project page}} automatically sort mainspace redirects to the {{c|Unprintworthy redirects}} category. For many years I have practiced placing the {{tl|R unprintworthy}} rcat on those redirects even though it is not needed functionally to sort them to the unprintworthy category. The reason I've always done this is for those editors, mostly inexperienced, who haven't set their "See hidden categories" preference. By applying the rcat to those redirects, editors are able to see that the redirects are sorted as unprintworty even if they can't see the categories at the bottom of the redirect page. It is also good in my opinion for editors who can see the categories at the bottom, because the rcat also functions as an information source for editors. I've always done this with printworthy redirects as well, for example, some rcats such as {{tl|R with possibilities}} automatically populate the {{c|Printworthy redirects}} category, and yet I still tag those redirects with {{tl|R printworthy}} to accommodate inexperienced editors, which I think helps them gain experience and knowledge about the "low-end" Wikipedia need to categorize redirects. I hope you agree that this is an important reason to use the printability rcats even when they are not needed to actually sort redirects to their categories, and I see no reason to start making exceptions for certain types of shortcut redirects.
::::: The {{tl|R to project page}} rcat is in a similar boat. There is no reason to make an exception for the MOS shortcut redirects. That rcat sorts to three categories, one for project-page redirects, one for cross-namespace redirects, and one for printability of mainspace redirects. Those are all tracking categories and are large enough to warrant bot tracking. Making an exception for the MOS shortcut redirects, which are clearly CNRs, would in effect defeat the purpose of the tracking that has been set up for many years.
::::: I find that discussing this with you has been informative, and I certainly mean no disrespect when I say that either one of us could be wrong. If you find that you still cannot agree with me about the utility of using the project and printability rcats on the MOS shortcut redirects, then we should probably seek the opinions of other editors on the matter. Hope your holidays continue to be happy and healthy''!''  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  01:39, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::Sure, I always prefer a discussion over a squabble. :-) I'm not sure I follow the first of these points. If the editor is too new to know about "See hidden categories" why would they be experienced enough to know about unprintworthy redirect sorting? I'm not inclined to go editwar about these rcats, but would suggest opening a discussion at [[Wikipedia talk:Categorizing redirects]], with a pointer to it from [[Wikipedia talk:Categorization]], [[Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization]], [[Wikipedia talk:Redirect]], and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Redirect]] to get extra eyes and brains. We do actually permit some forms of redundant categorization, but they're limited; whether to treat this kind of maint categorization as diffusing or non-diffusing is probably significant enough it shouldn't be just between you and me. Heh. I can see that there is potential utility in doing it your way, but is the utility worth the hassle (i.e. the anti-utility for others)? From my personal perspective it's not, since I do most of the maint. relating the pseudo-namespace in question; I don't think any of the kinda-new editors you're seeking to help out here are involved in any way with editing "MOS:" shortcuts, or more than very rarely even the "WP:" and "WT:" ones for that matter. Given the different sorts of unprintworthy redirs and the large total number of them, there's a good chance that maintainers in general will object to having them in the main category for them as well diffused to one or more of its subcats, instead of treating the main one as a container cat.I'll just concede on tagging the "MOS:" ones with {{tlx|R to project namespace}} (and have already started checking; have done all the ones at [[Special:PrefixIndex/MOS:]] that precede "A" in the alpha-order list already, doing the As next). While it seemed superfluous to me, you're correct that it creates a gap in "total redirs to project-space" and "total CNRs" tracking; I was arguing from an editorial not bot utility perspective (bots may not be coded to "know" what editors actually know about page names starting with "MOS:"). However, using that Rcat actually strengthens (at least marginally) the notion that {{tlx|R unprintworthy}} would be redundant. Anyway, {{tlx|R to project namespace}} should not be used on "WP:" or "WT:" redirs, since they're not CNRs; those have been made into actual aliases of "Wikipedia:" and "Wikipedia talk:", respectively. I'm sure you know that, but I do keep finding that Rcat on them, and it's just wrong, regardless who's putting them there. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 04:26, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::::{{to|SMcCandlish}} to repeat... rcats do more than just sort redirects to categories. They provide information in their texts about the categorization, and again, this is a learning tool whether or not editors can see hidden categories. So it is just as important, for information and tracking purposes, to tag WP (not WT) shortcuts with the {{-r|Template:R to project page|projectspace rcat}} so they will be tracked in that rcat's non-CNR {{cat|Redirects to Wikipedia project pages}}. That is specifically for redirects that are in projectspace that target projectspace pages, a long-standing tracking process. And you might be surprised that there are editors who want to help, but who thus far lack the information they need to help. That's why rcats are designed as learning tools in addition to their more functional sorting abilities. Thank you beyond words for your help in this''!''  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  15:58, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::::I don't strenuously disagree with that, I just don't think it's sufficient in this case (with regard to the point I didn't concede on). I could be wrong, which is why I suggest an RfC or something. There are a lot of people way more particular than me and probably you about categorization (both against and for the position I've taken). — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 16:06, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::Agreed, and I shall prepare an RfC in the manner you suggested above. I know several editors who have been involved with redirect categorization, and while I have no idea how they would !vote, I shall ping them to make sure they're aware of the discussion. L8RG8R –  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  16:17, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
{{collapse bottom}}

: While our two opinions seem to have come to some level of agreement on my talk page, we both believe that it would be beneficial to Wikipedia if these issues could receive the opinions of other editors. Thank you in advance for your decision.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  16:07, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
:: A little note to say that, while I support the notion of full usage of these rcats and cats in their present form, I will be happy to create/implement any changes that result from this discussion.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine]]'''''  20:59, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
* '''Yes.''' As seen on my talk page, I did warm to the exclusion of the {{tl|R to subpage}} tag; however, I would still appreciate more opinions on whether or not to call [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Acronyms]], which is the target page of the {{-r|MOS:CAPSACRS}} shortcut redirect, a "subpage". And I continue to consider the tracking and information functions of the other two tags, {{tl|R to project page}} and {{tl|R unprintworthy}}, as appropriate for all MoS shortcut redirects. I see no need to make exceptions for one type of shortcut redirect.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  16:07, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. By technical definition they are certainly [[WP:subpages|subpages]]. Whether they are functionally subpages may be another matter, but there is no question that they are subpages. Each of them has a breadcrumb link under the title that links to the "main" page for that subpage. While any benefits may be marginal, I don't see any harm in categorizing them as such. Similarly, it seems [[:Category:Redirects to Wikipedia project pages]] is certainly an appropriate categorization for these. It's kind of irrelevant whether editors understand what the MOS prefix does when the point of the category is to collect these redirects into a single group (and anyone interested can watch the category to spot changes to such redirects). If anything, there might be a case for sub-categorization of MOS redirects. I don't really have much use for or opinion about [[:Category:Unprintworthy redirects]], so I'm OK either way with that one. [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 17:21, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*{{ec}} '''Include all'''. I was invited here by a notice on my talkpage. I've read the edit history link and the collapsed discussion above, and I find myself in complete agreement with Paine Ellsworth - ''every'' redirect that is a shortcut should be tagged as being such, likewise ''every'' redirect to project space, cross-namespace redirect, to a subpage, etc, should be tagged with all the categories that apply. The reason these exist is so that bots, etc. can include or exclude what they do/don't want with ease without needing to know exceptions. There are mirrors that only take mainspace content, and they do not want titles that redirect out of mainspace - there is no way without tagging it as such for a bot to distinguish between redirects like [[MOS:/]] (→ [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Slashes]]) and [[http://]] (→ [[Hypertext Transfer Protocol]]). Regarding the subpage issue, [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters]] seems to me to be functionally and structurally indistinguishable from a page like [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military]] or [[Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates]], which are unarguably subpages. The guideline regarding image captions is located at [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Captions]], a subpage of the Manual of Style, if it wasn't a subpage it would be located at [[Wikipedia:Captions]], which redirects to the subpage. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 17:35, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
* Can we not just have something like a [[:Category:MOS shortcuts]], which itself includes all categorizations relevant to these links? [[User:BD2412|'''''bd2412''''']] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 17:52, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*'''Make a MOS-shortcut rcat''' as suggested by {{u|bd2412}} which can pass the other cats I guess. The subpage matter I'm ambivalent about -- functionally, in Mediawiki software, yes the individual MOS guidelines are subpages. However there are many usages for subpages, some more dependent on their parent, some less (like MOS). What is the net benefit of the "redirect to subpage" category anyways? However MOS redirects should definitely be marked as unprintworthy because <code>MOS:</code> is not an actual namespace shortcut (as opposed to <code>WP:</code>, for example) and thus Mediawiki considers the MOS shortcuts to be in mainspace. Without an unprintworthiness rcat, they'd be included if anyone printed "all Wikipedia articles starting with M", for instance. The "R to project page" rcat shouldn't even be a discussion, it's a mainspace title redirecting to projectspace, plain and simple. [[User:Salvidrim!|Ben · Salvidrim!]] [[User talk:Salvidrim|✉]] 18:28, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*:I'd be fine with Train2104's proposal for a PNR rcat instead of a MOS-specific one. This PNR cat should include unprintworthiness and R-to-projectspace. [[User:Salvidrim!|Ben · Salvidrim!]] [[User talk:Salvidrim|✉]] 19:05, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*'''Make a category for mainspace shortcuts''', to include these MOS shortcuts as well as "CAT:" and "T:" shortcuts. There is value in independently keeping track of these, since the software considers them as articles. They should also have the R to projectspace tag, but I'm not too sure of the utility of R to subpage. The various guidelines are subpages of MOS, but they aren't "dependent" on it per se, they usually stand alone. – [[User:Train2104|Train2104]] ([[User talk:Train2104|t]] • [[Special:Contributions/Train2104|c]])
*'''Comment.''' Let me ask editors to keep in mind that rcats serve in two main areas, 1) they categorize redirects, and 2), they provide information about their categorization to editors. In the first area, some rcats sort redirects to more than one category, for example, {{tl|R from shortcut}} populates {{cat|Redirects from shortcuts}} and (when the redirect is in mainspace) {{cat|Unprintworthy redirects}} by default. So the issue in this case is whether or not the {{tl|R unprintworthy}} rcat should be used to tag MoS shortcuts, since both the ''R from shortcut'' and ''R to project page'' rcats automatically sort mainspace redirects to the ''Unprintworthy redirects'' category. I maintain that ''R unprintworthy'' should still be used, and this brings us to the second area of service, which is to inform editors with details about why a redirect is sorted to a particular category. This doesn't just help inexperienced editors who want to learn how to help. Even though I have been working in redirect categorization for many years, I still sometimes find myself using the {{tl|tl}} template to read the rcat text ''first'' to make me certain that I tag a redirect with the correct rcat. So even though the printworthiness rcat is not necessary in these cases to actually sort the MoS shortcuts to the unprintworthy category, tagging them with ''R unprintworthy'' provides helpful information for editors.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  20:10, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
* '''Comment'''{{snd}}{{ec}}{{snd}}does {{tlx|R from shortcut}} cover it? Ping me back. Having fun! Cheers! <code>{{u|[[User:Checkingfax|Checkingfax]]}} {[[User talk:Checkingfax|Talk]]}</code> 20:13, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*: {{to|Checkingfax}} the ''R from shortcut'' rcat sorts only to ''Categories: Redirects from shortcuts'' and ''Unprintworthy redirects''. It does not sort to the project page and subpage categories. Are we having fun yet?  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  20:23, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*::Hi, {{u|Paine Ellsworth}}. I have been involved in UNIX directory structure web hosting since 1996 and when a URL has a forward-slash in it, that tells me that anything to the right of it is a sub-directory (or file), and so on. I do not see anything pseudo about it. Is that what {{u|SMcCandlish|McCandlish}} is getting at? Having fun! Cheers! <code>{{u|[[User:Checkingfax|Checkingfax]]}} {[[User talk:Checkingfax|Talk]]}</code> 20:37, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*::: {{to|Checkingfax}} if I understand the premise, even though the target of the shortcut is ''technically'' a subpage, the shortcut redirect should not be sorted to the subpage category because the target is a "stand-alone" project page.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  20:43, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*:::: I don't think it is obvious that these project pages are not subpages, even if some might consider them to be standalone. They are named the way that the are to group them together and that was deliberately done to bring some degree of order to the chaos that preceded them. [[User:Bkonrad|older]] ≠ [[User talk:Bkonrad|wiser]] 21:13, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*:::::In this case I'm just not sure. It makes me think of a time long ago when mainspace pages had functional subpages. We moved past that, and yet we hang on to a "need" to continue to use subpages in projectspace. And yet, there is definite utility for subpages in templatespace for such as /doc & /sandbox pages, as well as other "sub-template" pages. Until now, except for titles that use a solidus supported by reliable sources, I have treated all usages of the solidus as subpages of the "next higher level" of page. I could be wrong, which is why I began this Rfc.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  21:36, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*::: {{to|Checkingfax}} You might want to take a look here: [[Wikipedia:Articles with slashes in title]]. '''[[User:Wumbolo|Ꞷ]][[User talk:Wumbolo|umbolo]]''' 20:45, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*::::Hi, {{u|Wumbolo}}. Those for the most part are not sub-sets. They are pseudo-hyphens. For instance, DC is not a sub-set of AC. Having fun! Cheers! <code>{{u|[[User:Checkingfax|Checkingfax]]}} {[[User talk:Checkingfax|Talk]]}</code> 22:41, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*:::::Hmm? Sure it is. Well, you'd normally say "fragment" rather than "subset", but [[dependent choice]] is indeed a fragment of the [[axiom of choice]]. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 00:59, 15 December 2017 (UTC) 
*'''This should have been more specific.''' The question may be too vague for us to get a clear consensus answer. To summarize my answers template-by-template:
**'''Yes for now''' on {{tlx|R from shortcut}}
**'''Yes for now''' on {{tlx|R to project namespace}} a.k.a. {{tlx|R to project page}} (Paine convinced me some maint. bots need this).
** '''Better yet''', create a {{tlx|R from MOS shortcut}} and {{tlx|R from category shortcut}} (a.k.a. {{tlx|R from CAT shortcut}}), while we already have {{tlx|R from template shortcut}} (which should have a {{tlx|R from T shortcut}} alias). Code these to detect originating namespace (at least for {{tnull|R from template shortcut}}, which has multiple uses), and categorize as needed. E.g. for "MOS:" ones, {{tnull|R from MOS shortcut}} should put them in [[:Category:Redirects to project space]] and in a [[:Category:Redirects from mainspace shortcuts]] that is a subcat of both [[:Category:Redirects from shortcuts]] and [[:Category:Cross-namespace redirects]].
**'''Yes''' on either {{tlx|R to section}} or {{tlx|R to anchor}} {{em|if}} one of these is applicable in a particular case.
**'''No''' on {{tlx|R to subpage}} – MoS guidelines are not subpages in the [[WP:Subpages]] sense (neither editors nor readers care what the MediaWiki engine thinks they are). They're stand-alone guidelines that happen to have "/" in their names. You could delete the entire [[WP:Manual of Style]] main page, and all the MoS pages would continue as guidelines, in perfect working order. That page is just a summary of their key points. They have names like [[WP:Manual of Style/Capital letters]] instead of [[WP:Manual of Style (capital letters)]] simply due to historical accident.
**'''No''' on {{tlx|R unprintworthy}}, since {{tnull|R from shortcut}} already adds [[:Category:Unprintworthy redirects]], and [[:Category:Redirects from shortcuts]] is also already a subcat of [[:Category:Unprintworthy redirects]], and so is [[:Category:Redirects to project space‎]]. Adding {{tlx|R unprintworthy}} would be {{em|triply}} [BrEng: {{em|trebly}}] redundant.
**'''PS:''' Several subcats of [[:Category:Cross-namespace redirects]] need to be renamed for consistency, to use "namespace" not "space".
*: — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 22:06, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*::Just to be clear about usage of {{tlx|R unprintworthy}}: you are partially correct, because the [[WP:printability|printability]] rcats are often used in this "redundant" way. There are several rcats that, in addition to their main categories, they also sort to {{cat|Unprintworthy redirects}}, so for the first purpose of all rcats, which is to sort to maintenance categories, this is "redundant" usage. What about the second purpose of all rcats? The second purpose of all rcats is to provide to editors {{big|information}} about the categorizations, so there is absolutely {{big|no}} redundancy involved in this respect when the printability rcats are used to tag redirects. I do this all this time, for example with [[Bua (disambiguation)]] that redirects to [[Bua]] (a no-primary-topic disambiguation page). The {{tl|R to disambiguation page}} rcat sorts to {{cat|Unprintworthy redirects}} by default, but that is no reason to exclude the {{tl|R unprintworthy}} rcat and its {{big|textual information}}.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  19:48, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
*:::Please provide a practical use case for having {{tlx|R unprintworthy}}, despite 3× redundancy, on all these shortcuts. Like, give us a workflow that actually needs this. Then explain what actually good it's doing for the project. Redirects exist to get us where we need to get to. We should not spend one second categorizing them internally for maintenance purposes unless that maintenance is genuinely productive, will actually happen, and is best served by doing it that exact way. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 10:58, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
*::::I have already provided a "practical use case for having {{tlx|R unprintworthy}}", so I'm not exactly certain of what you're asking for here, [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]]. If you want me to justify the categorization itself, the [[WP:TPONT|printability]] rcats were created, were used and are still used to help decide which article-space redirects do or do not belong in printed versions of ''Wikipedia'', the encyclopedia. We agree in regard to categorizing redirects internally for maintenance purposes only when that maintenance is genuinely productive, will actually happan, and is best served by doing it that exact way. So your challenge there goes without saying, and the printability rcats certainly meet that challenge, as previously described. And there is no true redundancy here as regards the categorization. True redundancy would be indicated by a redirect actually being entered into a category more than once, which never happens. I could tag a redirect with {{tl|R printworthy}} ten times, and that redirect would only appear once – one time only – in {{cat|Printworthy redirects}}. So there is no true redundancy in adding the printworthy rcat to, say, a redirect that has also been tagged with {{tl|R with possibilities}}, which automatically sorts to the Printworthy redirects category. The redirect will only appear in the Printworthy redirects category ''one time'', hence no redundancy. Now we once again come to how important it is that the {{big|information}} provided by each rcat be allowed to appear on redirects. I consider and have always considered that the informative text found on rcats is just as important, if not more important, than the category sorts made by the rcats. So I consider it to be imperative that all category sorts be accompanied by the appropriate rcats, in this case the {{tl|R unprintworthy}} rcat, in order to convey information about the category sorts to editors. Less is not more when it comes to informing editors with these rcats. You must know where I'm coming from, because you've been here long enough to know just how difficult it has been over the years to understand the redirect category system simply because editors back then just did things without explaining what they did. You and I had to dig and dig to find out why and how other editors did things. So we now provide editors with information about why and how things are done for the express reason that '''it won't be as hard for them as it was for us''!'''''  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  14:54, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
* '''Yes''' – If a page fits into a category, it should be in that category (or a subcategory). Whether an entire category is needed or is necessary is another discussion.
** MoS pages are subpages of the main [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style]]. There is a lot of information on that main page, with more specific information spun-off into subpages. If there was no information on the main page and the whole MoS was broken in subpages, then you would have a point that the subpages are all standalone guidelines, but this is not the case. The situation doesn't seem any different to any page with subpages.
** The redirect ''is'' a redirect to a project page. It's not obvious to everyone what the purpose of MOS redirects are. Categorising cross-namespace redirects is important for technical reasons.
** Printworthy and unprintworthy redirects are for inclusion/exclusion in a possible print edition of Wikipedia, and we should assume, just in case, that non-mainspace pages could be included. Redirects designed for speed rather than related topics or search queries are unprintworthy (because they're only useful for typing), so this redirect is unprintworthy. However it has been pointed out above that another template already adds unprintworthy, meaning the specific template for unprintworthy is unnecessary.
** I agree with making a specific template for MOS redirects that would categorise (or subcategorise) them as redirects to project space, shortcuts and unprintworthy. (Not all MOS redirects go to subpages or sections/anchors.)
*:[[User:Mclay1|M.Clay1]] ([[User talk:Mclay1|talk]]) 23:58, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
*::Your first point is incorrect, for reasons I've already explained. They {{em|are}} independent guidelines, or they could not have {{tl|Guideline}} on them. As a matter of [[WP:CONLEVEL]] policy, they're interpretationally subordinate to the main MoS page (i.e., what it says overrides them if there's ever a [[WP:POLICYFORK]] in their wording), but they're not subpages of it. Again, you could nuke the main MoS page, and all the rest of them would be unaffected, other than by needing cross-references in them updated. Some MoS pages {{em|do}} have a handful of actual subpages, and they're correctly tagged as information pages, supplements, etc.; redirs to them should be and probably all already are tagged with {{tl|R to subpage}}. There are only about half a dozen of these. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 04:02, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
* All MOS shortcuts, and all WP shortcuts in mainspace, should be moved out. Put "WP:" in front of them. Fix all historic uses. The few editors who use them can get used to this change. Mainspace should be kept clean, mainspace is mainspace, everything in mainspace is part of the encyclopedia, and mainspace redirects must only redirect to mainspace pages. Concerns such as newcomer barriers and simple downstream uses of the product far outweigh sentimentally sticking with an old mistake. No objection to creating a new MOS namespace, except for the concern that MOS aficionados (as clever and correct they might be) already take themselves too seriously. --[[User:SmokeyJoe|SmokeyJoe]] ([[User talk:SmokeyJoe|talk]]) 05:25, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
*: I am not adverse to this. Even the venerable MOS:CAPS has less than 2000 uses. All the best: ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]] [[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'', 09:43, 15 December 2017 (UTC). 
*:: I have probably used [[MOS:DAB]] tens of thousands of times in edit summaries - pretty much any time I have edited a disambiguation page to bring it in line with the MOS. [[User:BD2412|'''''bd2412''''']] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 02:54, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
*::: Those edit summary links would then have to rely on the new link being provided in the deletion summary. —[[User:SmokeyJoe|SmokeyJoe]] ([[User talk:SmokeyJoe|talk]]) 04:02, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
*: If we're going down this route (and I don't know that I'm opposed) then there should be a period of deprecation before deletion - convert the MOS: shortcuts to soft redirects listing the new correct WP: alternative, specially highlighting any where the bit after the colon is not the same. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 10:36, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
*::{{replyto|SmokeyJoe}} There are ''no'' WP shortcuts in mainspace. All WP shortcuts are in [[Wikipedia:Project namespace|Wikipedia: (a.k.a. Project) space]]. This is because WP: is an alias for Wikipedia: that is defined at the wiki setup level. For example, [[WP:RCAT]] is an alias for [[Wikipedia:RCAT]] - it is a redirect ''in Project space''; similarly, [[WP:Categorizing redirects]] is not a redirect, it is not in mainspace either. I could write [[Project:Categorizing redirects]] and it's exactly the same page without need for redirection.
*::There should be no need to create a MOS namespace. We already have the Project (Wikipedia) namespace, which "includes Wikipedia official policies and guidelines", and the Manual of Style is most emphatically among the Wikipedia official policies and guidelines. Manual of Style pages should stay there. --[[User:Redrose64|Redrose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:23, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
*::: [[User:Redrose64]], [[MOS:CAP]] is a WP shortcut in mainspace. —[[User:SmokeyJoe|SmokeyJoe]] ([[User talk:SmokeyJoe|talk]]) 22:43, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
*:::: Not to put too fine a point on it, technically you're both correct. "WP" has more than one meaning, and just as a "template shortcut" is defined by whether or not the ''target page'' is a template regardless of the namespace in which the redirect is found, a "project-" or "WP shortcut" is defined the same way.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  19:12, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
*'''Yes''', {{tl|r to subpage}} <s>is appropriate for manual of style "subpages" largely per M.Clay1's first bullet point</s> because they are technically subpages (whether they are "independent guidelines" is beside the point, though I lean toward SMcCandlish's point of view on the matter), and {{tl|r to project namespace}} is obviously appropriate. {{tl|r unprintworthy}} may be redundant per SMcCandlish. I '''oppose''' a MOS-shortcut rcat because it is too specific; it opens the door for other rcats for certain types of policy and guideline pages, and there is no reason to do it in this case and not all cases. — [[User:Godsy|Godsy]] ([[User_talk:Godsy|TALK]][[Special:Contributions/Godsy|CONT]]) 20:44, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
*I'm not sure what to think in the broad sense as the situations seem, as stated quite clearly above, to be very different here depending on which we're talking about. I find myself thinking '''yes''' indeed for {{tlx|R to project namespace}} a.k.a. {{tlx|R to project page}} as well as {{tlx|R from shortcut}} and {{tl|r to subpage}}. With Godsy, SMcCandlish, and others' opinions making sense to me, I'm an uncertain '''no''' for {{tlx|R unprintworthy}}. [[User:CoffeeWithMarkets|CoffeeWithMarkets]] ([[User talk:CoffeeWithMarkets|talk]]) 22:21, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
*:Thank you, [[User:CoffeeWithMarkets|CoffeeWithMarkets]] – please let me know if there is anything I can do to help with your uncertainty.  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  02:40, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
*::And why on earth would you support {{tlx|R to subpage}} on these, after I've explained in great detail, twice, why that doesn't pertain? If it comes to it, I'm going to mass-RM them all "Wikipedia:Manual of Style (foo)" names, specifically to prevent this boneheaded bureaucratic and omphaloskeptic hyper-gnome crap effectively downgrading a large number of guidelines into some kind of "sub-guideline" that people will then feel they have more of an entitlement to ignore at their pleasure and without a legit [[WP:IAR]] reason. '''Please take this seriously'''; see the forest, not just the nit-picking maintenance tree several of you are over-focusing on. [I mean that in the nicest way, being a nit-picky gnome myself, but this isn't just frustrating, it dangerous to MoS stability, and that can potentially impact millions of articles.] — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 11:09, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
*:::As I have already mentioned, I am (or was) leaning very strongly toward your depiction of certain pages that just happen to have a [[solidus (punctuation)|solidus a.k.a forward-slash (/)]] in their page title to be something other than a "subpage". Judging by your raspy response above, you seem to have not gotten that, yet, so allow me to reiterate: even though I fall short understanding exactly what you mean, I can see that your explanation thus far as to why certain MoS pages that just happen to be titled with a solidus are not to be considered "subpages" contains merit. My only real problem is in how to easily tell the difference between what you consider is not a subpage and what actually ''is'' a subpage. In the past, it was easy to tell a subpage because the solidus ''defined'' the page as a subpage. Now that you don't want that to be the case anymore, it would help a good deal if you would please show some way that your "non-subpages" can be easily shown to be different from "subpages".  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  15:24, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
*:::If it would be helpful, let me provide an example. On my talk page, you mentioned that [[WP:Manual of Style/Accessibility]] is one of a handful of exceptions to your non-subpage rule, and that those pages that are not actually subpages are "stand-alone" project pages. How would you write that into a guideline that would easily explain to editors precisely what you mean? How, for example, can the accessibility guideline NOT be considered to be a stand-alone project page, and yet, the [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters]] page IS a stand-alone project page?  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  15:47, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
*::::{{ping|Paine Ellsworth}} I must have been unusually unclear in the user talk thread; [[WP:Manual of Style/Accessibility]] is not an exception, and is a guideline. It {{em|has}} (not {{em|is}}) a bunch of information subpages that are not guidelines and are subpages of it (not of the main MoS page). The pages under the [[WP:Manual of Style/]] sub-namespace that are subpages and are not guidelines don't have {{tlx|Guideline}} banners on them, but {{tlx|Supplement}}, {{tlx|Information page}}, {{tlx|Howto}} or whatever, and are clearly subpages providing additional (mostly technical) information. (Plus there are some {{tlx|Failed}} proposals retained for historical reasons.) See [[Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility]], for example. Most of these things are properly tagged and categorized, and redirs to them should have {{tlx|R to subpage}} on them. But a redir like [[MOS:ACCESS]] should not because it's going to a guideline which just happens to have "/" in its name. [Thinking back, I recall that the rationale for the "Manual of Style/Foo" pattern instead of "Manual of Style (Foo)" was to imply a [[WP:CONLEVEL]] authority hierarchy, to avoid misperception of topical MoS pages as {{em|alternatives to}} rather than subject-specific applications and refinements {{em|of}} the MoS. Given various attempts to try to make "WP:Naming conventions (foo)" pages immune to [[WP:GNG]] and be substitutes for it, and persistent misinterpretation of various "WP:Naming conventions (foo)" ideas as somehow not subject to the basic [[WP:CRITERIA]] policy, this wasn't an idle concern, in retrospect.) Another idea was that the MoS is like a book with "chapters", but I don't think anyone really thinks of it that way. It's pretty much pure [[WP:SUMMARY]] style: an overview page branching out into many topically specific, related pages that stand alone and are not fragmentary but which should be kept in agreement with it and with each other.] — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 05:39, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
*:::::I see where I went wrong and misconstrued your first bullet on my talk page, the statement within parentheses of which went "with a handful of exceptions, like '''actual supplementary ''subpages of'' WP:Manual of Style/Accessibility'''". I still tend to agree with you on this point, and I see that if the header of a solidus page has "guideline" in it, then the page should be viewed as stand-alone and not as a subpage of the Manual of Style. That's easy enough. So far, the scope of this as discussed has only included MoS pages. In your opinion does this also apply within a wider scope? such as other project pages besides the MoS? perhaps even template pages presently viewed as subpages but that are actually stand-alone templates, meta or otherwise? perhaps other namespaces? What do you perceive as the potentially expanding scope of this "solidus page but not subpage" illumination?  '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|Paine Ellsworth]]'''''  [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]]  01:21, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
{{Archive bottom}}

== Bad example ==

The example redirect [[24 Heures (newspaper)]] used on this page [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=24_Heures_(newspaper)&diff=854685806&oldid=783776410 isn't categorized anymore]. --[[User:Kliituu|Kliituu]] ([[User talk:Kliituu|talk]]) 12:19, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

== Why categorize redirects anymore? ==

I don't think we're making a print version of the encyclopedia anymore, so the printworthy/unprintworthy aspect seems to be not useful anymore since we don't need a paper index. Is there another reason why rcats are still helpful? I did look at this page first but I couldn't really grasp why categorizing redirects should still be encouraged, although leaving in the old ones wouldn't hurt unless they confuse new people and make them feel overwhelmed. I probably missed something. It might be worth having a section that brings this importance out at or near the beginning. Thanks in advance, [[User:Geekdiva|Geekdiva]] ([[User talk:Geekdiva|talk]]) 01:31, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

:Maintenance categorisation. [[User:Nixinova|Nixinova]] [[User talk:Nixinova|T]] [[Special:Contribs/Nixinova|C]] 23:52, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
::Redirect categorisation serves a variety of purposes, including helping the search engine rank results (redirects from typos are pushed down relative to redirects from alternative names), helping track links that need fixing (e.g. links to redirects from misspellings), and telling editors why the redirect is there (as this is not always obvious). – [[User talk:Uanfala|Uanfala (talk)]] 21:19, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
::: I agree, and would go further to say that ''every redirect in Wikipedia'' should have at least one categorization, even if it is obvious. There are other editing tasks for which classification of redirects will be useful. [[User:BD2412|'''''bd2412''''']] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 04:40, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
::: I agree as well. Additionally, the printworthy/unprintworthy distinction can be used for appearances in other indexes e.g. search suggestions. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 09:08, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

== Do redirects from typos/etc. need to ''additionally'' be tagged as unprintworthy? ==
A disagreement has arisen on [[Talk:Pronounciation#R unprintworthy]]. There {{u|Paine Ellsworth}} expressed the opinion that redirects should always be tagged with either {{tl|R printworthy}} or {{tl|R unprintworthy}}, even if they're already tagged with more specific tags (like {{tl|R from misspelling}}) that already classify the redirect with regard to printworthiness. Is this the general practice? – [[User talk:Uanfala|Uanfala (talk)]] 21:19, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
:I have never added printworthy/unprintworthy rcat templates. I let more specific templates make that categorization.[[User:Plantdrew|Plantdrew]] ([[User talk:Plantdrew|talk]]) 22:47, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
::If I know a more specific template makes the categorisation then I don't bother adding it specifically, unless for some reason it's different to the usual. If I'm not sure then I usually add one anyway. Even if one is not strictly necessary, don't remove it unless it is incorrect though. [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 09:11, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
{{od}}
{{to|Uanfala|Plantdrew|Thryduulf}} thank you for your responses and concerns''!'' The basis for adding {{tl|R printworthy}} or {{tl|R unprintworthy}} rcats to any and all redirects in mainspace is described in the essay on [[WP:printability|printability]], and in a recent discussion with editor [[User:Black Falcon|Black Falcon]] on the talk page of [[Template talk:R from alternative language#Printworthy|Template:R from alternative language]]. Bottom line is that the main reason for tagging mainspace redirects with one or the other of the printability rcats is to convey information about the category sorting to editors who come to the redirect page. When an rcat such as {{tl|R from misspelling}} tags a redirect, the info about unprintworthiness is not conveyed unless the unprintworthy rcat also tags the redirect. Categorization takes place, yes; however, that can be executed with a simple {{code|<nowiki>[[Category:Unprintworthy redirects]]</nowiki>}}. Templates are used to tag redirects mainly to convey information. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|P. I. Ellsworth]]''''', [[Editor|ed.]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]] 11:37, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
:Well, if there really is a need for redirects from misspellings to also display the printworthiness tag, then surely it's better to have that tag automatically displayed by {{tln|R from misspelling}} rather than have editors add it individually to all redirects concerned? – [[User talk:Uanfala|Uanfala (talk)]] 13:14, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
::I did that once, several years ago, and was promptly [[Template talk:This is a redirect#New parameters|complained to by an editor about the clutter]]. Some redirects, you see, have two or more rcats that auto sort to a printability rcat. So having each of those exhibit the text of the printability rcat meant that several renditions of the same printability text appeared on some redirects. I had to agree that the clutter was inexcusable, and I removed that ability from auto-sorting rcats like {{tl|R from misspelling}}. It's so much better to have only one rendition of the printability rcat text on a redirect than to have two or more renditions of the same text on that redirect. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|P. I. Ellsworth]]''''', [[Editor|ed.]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]] 06:36, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
:::Well, in that case the template that should display the tag is {{tl|Rshell}}. It shouldn't be too difficult to tweak it so that it checks if any of the rcat templates it contains has obligatorily printworthiness, and display a tag accordingly. At any rate, that's something that will need to be proposed and discussed first. I take it that we agree that individually tagging for printworthiness on each of the millions of redirects out there is not an option. – [[User talk:Uanfala|Uanfala (talk)]] 14:34, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
::::If what you propose could be done, I don't know how to do it not for lack of trying. As for tagging the millions of redirects, even with today's growing number of editors who get involved with redirect categorization (it's a rather good Wikignome occupation) the vast majority of redirects ''still'' need sorting of ''any'' kind, not just printability, and it takes no more time to add a printability rcat to a redirect than it does any other rcat. So no, at present individually tagging redirects is the only option there is. Printability tagging usually means editors must make a decision, a choice. Several rcats that normally default to one or the other of the printability rcats have the ability to be altered by editors. {{tl|R from misspelling}}, for example, defaults to unprintworthy; however, an editor can change that to printworthy by using its {{para|2}} parameter. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|P. I. Ellsworth]]''''', [[Editor|ed.]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]] 00:22, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::Well, if your intention is to individually tag all redirects from misspellings that have no other rcats with {{tl|R unprintworthy}}, then I ask you to please not do that manually, but put it up for discussion as a bot request, as this involves repetitive and predictable edits that affect almost all of the 36,000 redirects tagged as misspellings. Personally, I continue to fail to see the point of such additional tagging (the {{tl|R from misspelling}} tag is already explicit enough, and it already automatically makes the unprintworthy categorisation). – [[User talk:Uanfala|Uanfala (talk)]] 19:15, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
::::::You ask me to do it as a bot request rather than manually, and yet the end result would be the same... with one tiny exception: bots cannot decide between printworthy and unprintworthy, bots won't see other needs such as other rcats needed, replacing incorrect rcats and so on. Just don't understand your idea here. What exactly is so bad about a bunch of WikiGnomes seeing to it that redirects are correctly categorized and supplying information to editors??? '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|P. I. Ellsworth]]''''', [[Editor|ed.]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]] 01:16, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::::I don't think the end result will be the same because I believe that if that's put up for discussion as a bot request, it will be likely turned down as an unnecessary task. And if it does get accepted, then it will be performed by a bot that users will be able to easily hide from their watchlists. – [[User talk:Uanfala|Uanfala (talk)]] 01:46, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

== Rcat wording/scope/rationale RfC (R from television episode) ==

{{FYI|pointer=y}}
Please see [[Template talk:R from television episode#RfC: The template wording's accuracy]].

I've RfCed this because the page has very few active watchlisters other than the disputing parties. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 06:58, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

== Nomination for merging of [[:Category:Redirects from catchphrases]] / [[Template:R from catchphrase]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px|alt=|link=]][[:Category:Redirects from catchphrases]] (and [[Template:R from catchphrase]]) have been [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion|nominated for merging]] with [[:Category:Redirects from slogans]] (and [[Template:R from slogan]], respectively). You are invited to comment on the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 February 5#Category:Redirects from catchphrases|the categories' and templates' entry at Categories for discussion]]. Thank you. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 07:04, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

== Printworthiness ==

Currently, printworthiness is indicated for ~2 million out of ~11 million redirects. To facilitate adding printworthiness, and assuming that all redirect should have at least two ''rcat'' tags (one for printworthiness and at least one descriptive ''rcat''), what do folks think about displaying printworthiness via {{tl|Redirect category shell}}? This would require updating the shell template to add a named parameter, e.g., {{tlx|Redirect category shell|printworthy{{=}}(yes/no)|...}}. -- [[User:Black Falcon|Black Falcon]] ([[User talk:Black Falcon|talk]]) 20:30, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
:By my count using the {{c|Printworthy redirects|printworthy}} and {{c|Unprintworthy redirects|unprintworthy}} categories, there are around 3 million redirects that have been categorized as to their printability, 486,064 as printworthy and the rest as unprintworthy. How did you come by the 11 million figure? Does it represent just mainspace redirects or is it the number of all redirects on the project? There used to be a tool that did these counts, but I can't find it now.
:I like the idea of the shell with the {{para|printworthy}} parameter. It would have to be passed automatically with every transclusion of the shell, and it would have to be passed as "{{para|printworthy| {{!}}}}" so editors would only have to type "yes" or "no". One present problem is that editors don't seem to understand how important it is to tag a mainspace redirect with either the printworthy or the unprintworthy category, so they decide not to decide, and they won't manually add either of the rcats. I've tried to stress this importance at [[WP:PRINTABILITY]]; however, the applying of it has been slow-going. Unless editors have a tool like Twinkle or [[meta:TemplateScript|TemplateScript]] to add rcats in the blink of an eye, they appear to be loathe to taking the time to add the rcats manually. So unless it is made easy as possible, editors will mostly ignore the printworthy= parameter. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|PI Ellsworth]]'''''  [[Editor|ed.]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]] 16:19, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
::Would a [[:Category:Redirects of undetermined printworthiness]] or similar name be useful? [[User:Thryduulf|Thryduulf]] ([[User talk:Thryduulf|talk]]) 18:49, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
:::Assuming you mean to have such a category bot-applied using the lack of either the ''R printworthy'' or ''R unprintworthy'' rcat, there would be millions of redirects ending up in that category. Since bots can't make the printability decision, and since there are still relatively few editors who categorize redirects on a daily basis, such a category would be next to impossible to monitor and massage. However it would at least show the entire backlog of redirects that need to be categorized for printworthiness. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|PI Ellsworth]]'''''  [[Editor|ed.]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]] 03:26, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
::The "11 million" figure is from [[Wikipedia:Database reports/Page count by namespace]] and represents redirects across all namespaces. I do not think there is an easy solution to the issue issue you highlight in your second paragraph (or, at least, I cannot think of one), but adding the parameter will at least make editors more aware of redirect printability. If there are still no objections after a few more weeks, I will test adding a parameter to the template and proposed corresponding updates to [[WP:REDCAT]]. -- [[User:Black Falcon|Black Falcon]] ([[User talk:Black Falcon|talk]]) 04:45, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
:::{{to|Black Falcon}} okay, then the number of redirects marked "p" or "un-p" can be compared only to the 9 million or so redirects in main article namespace, which is the only namespace in which redirects can be printworthy or unprintworthy. I'm actually pleasantly surprised to find that high a ratio, about 32%, almost a third, that have already been tagged one way or the other. I thought it was lower. Anyway, let me know if you need help with the parameter's sandbox testing. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|PI Ellsworth]]'''''  [[Editor|ed.]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]] 05:20, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

=== Weird printworthiness template categorization ===
A peripherally related thing: I'm finding both:
* <code><nowiki>[[Category:Templates for Printworthy redirects|Song]] [[Category:Printworthy redirects| ]]</nowiki></code>; and
* <code><nowiki>[[Category:Templates for unprintworthy redirects|Song]] [[Category:Unprintworthy redirects| ]]</nowiki></code>
pairs at the same time (sometimes {{em|all four}} not just a pair) on a lot of {{samp|Template:R from {{var|whatever}}/doc}} pages, such as at {{tlx|R from song}} (though it is not consistently being done at all rcats even of the same general sort, such as for creative works of various kinds).

First off, I don't think it very plausible that song titles and similar things are very often unprintworthy; the cases they're unprintworthy are going to be outliers. Second, it's confusing to have these categorized as both printworthiness and unprintworthiness tags. Third, I don't see any point to these categories being done in pairs. That is, these templates may belong in a "Templates for ..." category, but not a category for actual redirects. Fourth, I question anyway the usefulness of listing them even in either of these "Templates for" categories, because they are not actually templates for [un]printworthiness; they do not have any code in them about that. "Templates that can be used for things that are [un]printworthy according to some other template" is not synonymous with "Templates for [un]printworthy redirects", and it really applies to virtually {{em|all}} rcats, anyway.

So, I'm proposing removing all four of these categories from all rcat templates/doc pages that do not have printworthiness code build into them, like {{tlx|R printworthy}}, {{tlx|R unprintworthy}}, and a few specialty one I remember running across at some point. — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 07:20, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

=== Related TfM ===
{{FYI|pointer=y}}
Please see [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 February 5#Template:R to anchor 2]] – to merge into [[Template:R to anchor]], and fix the latter to stop auto-categorizing things as unprintworthy (which may explain a big chunk of the unexpected ~32% results that {{U|Paine Ellsworth}} mentioned above). — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 09:20, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
:Don't understand why you would want to remove unprintworthiness from anchor redirects? Have you checked with the team involved with [[wp:printability#CD/DVD version.trw|printing the Wikipedia disks]]? It seems clear to me that they never wanted to include anchor redirects in printed versions of Wikipedia. And my noting above that 32% was higher than I expected was more of a happy note that tells me that a lot more editors than I expected are now including printworthiness or unprintworthiness when they categorize redirects. These rcats, {{tl|R printworthy}} and {{tl|R unprintworthy}} are necessary to the project and should not be tampered with unless it is first discussed with the [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team|Version 1.0 Editorial Team]]. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|PI Ellsworth]]'''''  [[Editor|ed.]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|put'r there]] 16:04, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

User talk:168.170.142.1

2022-06-08T18:03:40Z

HelixxUnderscore: Note: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

{{Shared IP edu|Madison-Oneida BOCES (NY, US)}}

== November 2019 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:Adam9007|Adam9007]]. I noticed that you recently removed content from [[:United States military casualties of war]] without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate [[Help:Edit summary|edit summary]]. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[WP:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on [[User_talk:Adam9007|my talk page]]. Thanks. [[User:Adam9007|Adam9007]] ([[User talk:Adam9007|talk]]) 19:50, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
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[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at [[:United States military casualties of war]]. Your edits appear to constitute [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Repeated vandalism may result in the [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|loss of editing privileges]]. Thank you. [[User:Jebcubed|'''Jeb''''''3''']][[User talk:Jebcubed|'''Talk at me here''']][[Special:Contributions/Jebcubed|What I've Done]] 19:52, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
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== January 2020 ==

[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:TheAwesomeHwyh|TheAwesomeHwyh]]. I wanted to let you know that I reverted one of [[Special:Contributions/168.170.142.1|your recent contributions]] —specifically [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Big%20brown%20bat&diff=936901245 this edit] to [[:Big brown bat]]—because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the [[Wikipedia:Help desk|Help desk]]. Thanks. [[User:TheAwesomeHwyh|TheAwesome]][[User_Talk:TheAwesomeHwyh|Hwyh]] 18:45, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

<div style="clear: both"></div>[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Big%20brown%20bat&diff=936901435 this edit] to [[:Big brown bat]]. Your edits appear to be [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]] or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Repeated vandalism can result in the [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|loss of editing privileges]]. Thank you. [[User:TheAwesomeHwyh|TheAwesome]][[User_Talk:TheAwesomeHwyh|Hwyh]] 18:46, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]]. I wanted to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/168.170.142.1|your recent contributions]] to [[:Charles Alderton]] have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the [[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]]. Thanks. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 18:03, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
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Charles Alderton

2022-06-08T18:03:31Z

HelixxUnderscore: Reverting edit(s) by 168.170.142.1 (talk) to rev. 1092186021 by JeffUK: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

{{Short description|American pharmacist; inventor of Dr Pepper}}
{{Infobox person
|name = Charles Alderton
|image = Charles_Alderton.jpg
|caption = Charles Courtice Alderton
|birth_date = {{birth date|1857|6|21}}
|birth_place = [[Brooklyn]], [[New York City]], USA
|death_date = {{death date and age|1941|5|29|1857|6|21}}
|death_place = [[Waco, Texas]], USA
|resting_place_coordinates =
|known_for = Creator of [[Dr Pepper]]
|education =
|spouse = Lillie E. Walker (1884) Emilie Marie Coquille (1918)
|occupation = [[Pharmacist]]
}}

'''Charles Courtice Alderton''' (June 21, 1857 – May 29, 1941)<ref>[http://www.nndb.com/people/635/000207014/ Charles Alderton – NNDB]</ref> was an American [[pharmacist]] and the creator of the carbonated soft drink [[Dr Pepper]].

==Early life==
Charles Courtice Alderton was born (June 21, 1857, [[Brooklyn, New York]]), the eldest of five children to [[English people|English]] parents.<ref>{{cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=L7CaAAAAIAAJ&q=charles+courtice+alderton+parents|title=Entrepreneur magazine encyclopedia of entrepreneurs|first1=Anthony|last1=Hallett|first2=Diane|last2=Hallett|date=24 October 1997|isbn=9780471175360|accessdate=24 May 2020}}</ref>
Alderton attended [[Framlingham College]] in England, studied medicine at the [[University of Texas]], and worked as a pharmacist in [[Waco, Texas|Waco]], in a shop called "Morrison's Old Corner Drug Store",<ref name=faq>{{cite web|url=http://www.drpepper.com/text/faq|title=Dr Pepper FAQ.|accessdate=24 May 2020}}</ref> which had a [[soda fountain]].

==Creation of Dr Pepper==
Alderton noticed that customers were tiring of the traditional flavors of [[sarsaparilla (soft drink)|sarsaparilla]], lemon and [[vanilla]], and so to try and revive sales, began experimenting with new flavor combinations, eventually settling on a 23 ingredient mix combined with [[phosphoric acid]] to give it tang. It was first sold on December 1, 1885, and was ordered by asking the soda attendant to "shoot a Waco".<ref>{{cite book|last1=Donovan|first1=Tristan|title=Fizz : how soda shook up the world|date=2014|publisher=Chicago Review Press|location=Chicago, Illinois|isbn=978-1613747223|pages=69}}</ref>
Alderton gave the formula to Wade Morrison, who named it Dr Pepper.

It was introduced to almost 20 million people while attending the 1904 [[Louisiana Purchase Exposition|World's Fair Exposition]] in [[St. Louis]], Missouri as a new kind of soda pop.<ref>[https://drpeppermuseum.com/history/ Dr Pepper museum] – The 1904 World's Fair</ref> Its introduction in 1885 preceded the introduction of [[Coca-Cola]] by one year.
[[File:Dr Pepper Museum December 2016 01 (Old Corner Drug Store exhibit).jpg|right|200px|thumb|Corner Drug Store exhibit at the Dr. Pepper museum in [[Waco, Texas]].]]
Completed in 1906, the building was the first building to be built specifically to bottle Dr Pepper and Dr Pepper was bottled there until the 1960s.
The Dr Pepper Museum, located in the Artesian Manufacturing and Bottling Company building at 300 South Fifth Street in downtown Waco, Texas, opened to the public in 1991. The museum has three floors of exhibits, a working old-fashioned soda fountain, and a gift store of Dr Pepper memorabilia.<ref>[https://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/gray-matters/amp/Waco-s-Dr-Pepper-Museum-complete-with-a-6065414.php Waco's Dr Pepper Museum and its holographic ghost] Houston Chronicle. Retrieved October 8, 2019</ref><ref>[https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/dr-pepper-museum Dr Pepper Museum] – Waco, Texas – Gastro Obscura. Retrieved October 8, 2019</ref>

==Personal life==
Alderton married twice. His first wife was Lilian "Lillie" E. Walker, whom he married in October 1884. It was announced in the [[Galveston, Texas]] newspaper. They married at the residence of J. B. Walker (Lillie's father) with [[Methodist]] Rev. Mr. Young present.<ref>[http://www.wacomasonic.org/charles-alderton/ Charles Courtice Alderton (1857–1941)] – Wacomasomic</ref> Lillie died in 1916. He married Emilie Marie Coquille on December 20, 1918 in New Orleans, Orleans, Louisiana.

==Death==
Alderton died in 1941. He was buried in [[Oakwood Cemetery (Waco, Texas)|Oakwood Cemetery]], [[Waco]], [[McLennan County]], Texas, in Plot: Section B-1 Lot 425.<ref>[https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=7834189 Find a Grave] Charles C. Alderton</ref>

== References ==
{{Reflist|30em}}

{{authority control}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Alderton, Charles}}
[[Category:1857 births]]
[[Category:1941 deaths]]
[[Category:American pharmacists]]
[[Category:19th-century American inventors]]
[[Category:People from Brooklyn]]
[[Category:University of Texas Medical Branch alumni]]
[[Category:American expatriates in the United Kingdom]]
[[Category:Burials at Oakwood Cemetery (Waco, Texas)]]
[[Category:American people of English descent]]
[[Category:People educated at Framlingham College]]

User talk:209.80.156.36

2022-06-08T18:00:43Z

HelixxUnderscore: Caution: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

{{Shared IP edu|Merrimack Education Center}}
{{OW}}

== October 2018 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:Kleuske|Kleuske]]. I wanted to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/209.80.156.36|your recent contributions]] to [[:Code talker]] have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[WP:sandbox|sandbox]]. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the [[Wikipedia:Help desk|Help Desk]]. Thanks. [[User:Kleuske|Kleuske]] ([[User talk:Kleuske|talk]]) 16:23, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
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== April 2019 ==
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== May 2019 ==
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<div style=clear: both></div>[[File:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px]] You may be '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]] without further warning''' the next time you vandalize Wikipedia, as you did with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Supervolcano&diff=899665419 this edit] to [[:Supervolcano]]. [[User:One Of Seven Billion|One Of Seven Billion]] ([[User talk:One Of Seven Billion|talk]]) 14:47, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Information orange.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at [[:Salem Poor]]. Your edits appear to constitute [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]] and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Repeated vandalism may result in the [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|loss of editing privileges]]. Thank you. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 18:00, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
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User talk:2A00:23C7:4F0B:DA01:64F5:BFE7:BFBB:3966

2022-06-08T17:58:20Z

HelixxUnderscore: Note: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]]. I wanted to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C7:4F0B:DA01:64F5:BFE7:BFBB:3966|your recent contributions]] to [[:Babybel]] have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the [[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]]. Thanks. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 17:58, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
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Babybel

2022-06-08T17:58:11Z

HelixxUnderscore: Reverting edit(s) by 2A00:23C7:4F0B:DA01:64F5:BFE7:BFBB:3966 (talk) to rev. 1090517984 by Northalabama: Vandalism (RW 16.1)

{{Short description|Brand of small snack cheese from France}}

'''Mini Babybel''' ({{IPAc-en|ˈ|b|æ|b|ɪ|b|ɛ|l}}) is a French brand of small snack [[cheese]] products that are individually packaged and available in various flavours. It is a product of [[Bel Group|Le Groupe Bel]] ({{langnf||French|The Bel Group}}), a company with roots in the [[Jura Mountains|Jura region]] of [[France]], started by [[Jules Bel]] in 1865.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.groupe-bel.com/en/group/company-history/|title=A BEHIND THE SCENES LOOK AT THE BEL SAGA|website=Le Groupe Bel}}</ref> Half of the global production of Mini Babybel is made in [[Évron]], a [[Communes of France|commune]] in the northwest of France.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/evron-53600/evron-bel-voit-grand-pour-son-mini-babybel-5915354|title=Agroalimentaire. Bel voit grand pour son mini Babybel en Mayenne|last=Robin|first=Claire|date=2018-08-08|work=Ouest-France|access-date=24 April 2020}}</ref>

[[File:Babybel WikiCheese 04 Lokal K.jpg|thumb|right|Mini Babybel cheeses]]

In the [[United States]] Le Groupe Bel produces the Mini Babybel cheeses in [[Kentucky]].<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.nytimes.com/1987/04/22/garden/american-beckons-to-foreign-foods.html|title=American Beckons to Foreign Foods|last=Hall|first=Trish|date=1987-04-22|work=The New York Times|access-date=13 March 2018}}</ref>
In March 2016, Bel Brands USA opened a new plant in [[Brookings, South Dakota]]. At the time, Bel Brands projected that its 250 employees would produce 1.5 million Mini Babybel cheese wheels a day.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/brookings-mini-babybel-cheese-plant-part-of-south-dakota-push-to-boost-dairies-milk-products|title=Brookings Mini Babybel cheese plant part of South Dakota push to boost dairies, milk products|date=5 March 2016|website=foxbusiness.com }}</ref> In July 2018, {{lang|fr|Le Groupe Bel}} announced that the company had 12,700 employees in thirty subsidiaries around the world and that their first Canadian office would be in [[Quebec]].<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://globalnews.ca/news/4329762/mini-babybel-plant-quebec/|title = First Canadian Mini Babybel plant to be built in Quebec | Globalnews.ca}}</ref>

==Product==
Mini Babybel is known for its packaging, consisting of a netted bag in which each piece of cheese is encased in a blend of coloured [[paraffin wax|paraffin]] and [[microcrystalline wax|microcrystalline]] wax.<ref name=wax>{{cite web |url= https://www.minibabybel.ca/en-ca/faq-0 |title= FAQ |publisher = Babybel |accessdate= 26 January 2022}}</ref> Numerous flavors of Mini Babybel are offered across the world.

[[File:Mmbover cheesedisk.jpg|thumb|right|The red wax encasement being removed from a Babybel cheese]]

===Flavours (with corresponding wrapping colours)===

{| class="wikitable sortable"
!Flavour
!Colour
!References/comments
|-
| [[Edam cheese|Edam]]
| Red (all locations)
|
|-
| Edam "light"
| Red with light blue stripe or light blue (Australia, France, Spain, United Kingdom, United States of America, and Canada)
| Sponsored by [[WeightWatchers]] in Canada <ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=108041&sc=3010|title=Hungry Girl Goes... In Search of "2 for 1" Snacks (PointsPlus® Bargain Combos!)|website=www.weightwatchers.com|access-date=2019-04-09}}</ref>
|-
|[[Cheddar cheese|Cheddar]]
| Black (Canada and United States of America), Orange (Australia), and Purple (Spain, Finland, United Kingdom, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Belgium)
| <ref name="minibabybelca">{{Cite web|url=https://www.minibabybel.ca/en-ca/products|title=Mini Babybel® : The perfect snack|website=Babybel UK|access-date=2019-04-09}}</ref>
|-
| [[Emmental cheese|Emmental]]
| Yellow (Canada – discontinued, Spain, Greece, Germany and Belgium)
|
|-
| [[Gruyère cheese|Gruyere]]
| Yellow (Canada)
| <ref name="minibabybelca">{{Cite web|url=https://www.minibabybel.ca/en-ca/products|title=Mini Babybel® : The perfect snack|website=Babybel UK|access-date=2019-04-09}}</ref>
|-
| [[Gouda cheese|Gouda]]
| Brown (United States of America and Canada), Yellow (United Kingdom), and Orange (United States of America, Canada, and Norway)
|
|-
| [[Mozzarella cheese|Mozzarella]]
| Green (Canada, United States of America and Greece)
| <ref name="minibabybelca">{{Cite web|url=https://www.minibabybel.ca/en-ca/products|title=Mini Babybel® : The perfect snack|website=Babybel UK|access-date=2019-04-09}}</ref>
|-
| "Sharp Original" (cheese type unknown)
| Magenta (United States of America)
|
|-
| [[Goat's cheese]]
| Green (United Kingdom and Canada – discontinued, and France)
|
|-
|"High Protein"
|Black (Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, Italy, Australia)
|
|-
|"Vegan"
|Green, with leaves (United States of America)
|
|}

===Products===
* Babybel Maxi – Edam Only (FR)
* Babybel Tranches – Edam Only (FR, BE)

==== Mini Babybel ====
[[File:Babybel mini roll 1.jpg|thumb|Babybel mini rolls in plastic packaging]]
* Mini Babybel (BE, CA, DE, ES, EE, FI, FR, GR, IT, NL, PL, PT, UK, US, SK)
* Mini Babybel Mini Roulés/Enrollados/Mini Rolls – Edam only (FR, ES, IT)
* Mini Babybel Cheese & Crackers – Edam, Edam Light and White Cheddar (US, GR, PT)

==Advertising==
An advertising [[jingle]] associated with the product plays on the lyrics of the song "[[Barbara Ann]]" by [[The Regents (doo-wop band)|The Regents]]. Use of said jingle started in [[France]] in the end of the 1970s, and then emerged to other parts of [[Europe]] and French-Canada by the start of the 1990s. They tout the product as an "always on the go and ready for anything" snack cheese.

As of 2012, a recording of the song "Get in Line" by [[I'm from Barcelona]] has been used in their adverts, where the band rerecorded the song with a children's choir. In August 2012, there was controversy over its promotional use of the French slogan "Des vacances de malade mental" ("having a mental holiday", or literally "holidaying like a mentally ill person") which was deemed offensive to people with learning difficulties or mental illnesses.<ref>{{cite news|last=Chrisafis|first=Angelique|title=Babybel maker apologises for 'clumsy' gaffe|url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/aug/08/babybel-france|accessdate=28 November 2013|newspaper=The Guardian (UK)|date=8 August 2012}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|title=Campaigners call for Babybel boycott after mental illness 'insult'|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/campaigners-call-for-babybel-boycott-after-mental-illness-insult-8026685.html|accessdate=28 November 2013|newspaper=The Independent (UK)|date=9 August 2012}}</ref>

== References ==
<references />

==External links==
{{Commons category|
}}
* Babybel websites: [https://www.babybel.fr/ France], [https://www.babybel.co.uk/ United Kingdom], [https://www.babybel.nl/ Netherlands], [https://www.minibabybel.ca/en-ca Canada], [https://www.babybel.com/en-us United States]
* [https://www.groupe-bel.com/en/ Groupe Bel official website]

[[Category:French cheeses]]
[[Category:Cow's-milk cheeses]]
[[Category:Products introduced in 1952]]
[[Category:Brand name dairy products]]

User talk:Aoflinn

2022-06-08T17:54:00Z

HelixxUnderscore: Note: Adding unreferenced information about living persons (RW 16.1)

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, I'm [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]]. I noticed that you made an edit concerning content related to a living (or recently deceased) person{{spaces|1}}on [[:William Tavoulareas]], but you didn't support your changes with a [[Help:Referencing for beginners|citation to a reliable source]]. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now. Wikipedia has a very strict policy concerning [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|how we write about living people]], so please help us keep such articles accurate and clear. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on [[User_talk:HelixxUnderscore|my talk page]]. Thank you!  [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 17:54, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

User talk:206.207.225.120

2022-06-08T17:41:54Z

HelixxUnderscore: Note: Disruptive editing (RW 16.1)

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of [[Special:Contributions/206.207.225.120|your recent contributions]], such as the edit(s) you made to [[:Water memory]], did not appear to be constructive and have been [[Help:Reverting|reverted]]. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our [[Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines|policies and guidelines]]. You can find information about these at our [[Help:Getting started|welcome page]] which also provides further information about [[Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia|contributing constructively to this encyclopedia]]. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]] for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on [[User_talk:HelixxUnderscore|my talk page]]. Thank you. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 17:41, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
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Water memory

2022-06-08T17:40:41Z

HelixxUnderscore: Undid revision 1092182915 by 206.207.225.120 (talk)

{{Short description|Refuted theory behind homeopathic remedies}}
{{Use dmy dates|date=June 2020}}
{{Infobox pseudoscience
| topics=[[Homeopathy]], [[alternative medicine]], [[pseudoscience]]
| image = File:Glass Half Full bw 1.JPG
| caption = A glass of water
| claims=Unproven claim that under certain circumstances water can retain a "memory" of solute particles after arbitrarily large dilution.
| origyear={{launch date and age|df=y|1988}}
| origprop=[[Jacques Benveniste]]
| currentprop=[[Madeleine Ennis]] [[Brian David Josephson|Brian Josephson]] [[Luc Montagnier]] [[Bernd Kroplin]] Various [[homeopathy|homeopaths]]
}}
'''Water memory''' is the purported ability of [[water]] to retain a memory of substances previously [[Solvation|dissolved]] in it even after an arbitrary number of [[serial dilutions]]. It has been claimed to be a mechanism by which [[Homeopathy|homeopathic remedies]] work, even when they are diluted to the point that no molecule of the original substance remains, but has no scientific proof.

Water memory contradicts current scientific understanding of [[physical chemistry]] and is generally not accepted by the [[scientific community]]. In 1988, [[Jacques Benveniste]] published a study supporting a water memory effect amid [[Benveniste affair|controversy]] in ''[[Nature (journal)|Nature]]'',<ref>{{PMID|2455231}}.</ref> accompanied by an editorial by ''Nature{{'}}s'' editor [[John Maddox]]<ref>{{Cite journal|doi=10.1038/334287a0|title="High-dilution" experiments a delusion|year=1988|last1=Maddox|first1=John|last2=Randi|first2=James|last3=Stewart|first3=Walter W.|journal=Nature|volume=334|issue=6180|pages=287–290|pmid=2455869|bibcode=1988Natur.334..287M|s2cid=9579433}}</ref> urging readers to "suspend judgement" until the results could be replicated. In the years after publication, multiple supervised experiments were made by Benveniste's team, the [[United States Department of Defense]],<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/integrative-medicine-invades-the-u-s-military-part-three/ |title=Integrative Medicine Invades the U.S. Military: Part Three |last=Bellamy |first=Jann |date=2013-08-08 |website=[[Science-Based Medicine]] |access-date=2017-10-01}}</ref> [[BBC Horizon|BBC's ''Horizon'']] programme,<ref name="bbc"/> and other researchers, but no one has ever reproduced Benveniste's results under [[scientific control|controlled]] conditions.

==Benveniste's study==
{{Main|Benveniste affair}}
[[Jacques Benveniste]] was a French immunologist who sought to demonstrate the plausibility of homeopathic remedies "independently of homeopathic interests" in a major scientific journal.<ref name="personaltribute">{{cite journal|author=Poitevin, Bernard|title=Jacques Benveniste: a personal tribute|journal=Homeopathy|volume=94|issue=2|year=2005|pages=138–139|doi=10.1016/j.homp.2005.02.004}}</ref> To that end, Benveniste and his team at [[Institut National de la Santé et de la Recherche Médicale]] (INSERM, French for National Institute of Health and Medical Research) diluted a solution of human [[antibodies]] in water to such a degree that there was virtually no possibility that a single molecule of the antibody remained in the water solution.

Nonetheless, they reported, human [[basophil]]s responded to the solutions just as though they had encountered the original antibody (part of the [[allergic reaction]]). The effect was reported only when the solution was shaken violently during dilution.<ref name="benveniste">{{cite journal
|journal = Nature|title = Human basophil degranulation triggered by very dilute antiserum against IgE|volume = 333|date = 30 June 1988|pages = 816–818|doi = 10.1038/333816a0|pmid = 2455231|issue = 6176|bibcode = 1988Natur.333..816D|vauthors = Dayenas E, Beauvais F, Amara J, Oberbaum M, Robinzon B, Miadonna A, Tedeschit A, Pomeranz B, Fortner P, Belon P, Sainte-Laudy J, Poitevin B, Benveniste J|s2cid = 12992106}}</ref> Benveniste stated: "It's like agitating a car key in the river, going miles downstream, extracting a few drops of water, and then starting one's car with the water."<ref name="time">{{cite journal
| author = John Langone
| journal = Time Magazine
| title = The Water That Lost Its Memory
| date = 8 August 1988
| url = http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,968080,00.html
| archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20070930093556/http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,968080,00.html
| url-status = dead
| archive-date = 30 September 2007
| access-date = 2007-06-05
}}
</ref> At the time, Benveniste offered no theoretical explanation for the effect, which was later coined as "water memory" by a journalist reporting on the study.<ref>Beauvais, Francis (2016) ''Ghosts of Molecules - The case of the "memory of water"'', Coll. Mille-Mondes [http://www.mille-mondes.fr], Ed. Lulu.com, {{ISBN|978-1-326-45874-4}} (Chapter 1, page 15).{{self-published source|date=June 2020}}</ref>{{self-published inline|date=February 2020}}

===Implications===
While Benveniste's study demonstrated a mechanism by which homeopathic remedies could operate, the mechanism defied scientific understanding{{clarify|date=April 2014}} of [[physical chemistry]].<ref name="time" /><ref name=NatureEditorial>{{cite journal|author=Anonymous [John Maddox]|title=When to believe the unbelievable|journal=Nature|doi=10.1038/333787a0|volume=333|issue=6176|year=1988|pages=787|pmid=|bibcode = 1988Natur.333Q.787. |s2cid=4369459|doi-access=free}}</ref><ref>{{cite journal | author = P. Ball |author-link=Philip Ball| title = Here lies one whose name is writ in water | journal = [[Nature (journal)|Nature]] | date = 8 August 2007 | doi = 10.1038/news070806-6 |s2cid=97223172| url = http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070806/full/news070806-6.html | access-date = 2011-02-13 }}</ref> A paper about hydrogen bond dynamics<ref name="cowan">{{cite journal |author=Cowan ML |title=Ultrafast memory loss and energy redistribution in the hydrogen bond network of liquid H2O |journal=Nature |volume=434 |issue=7030 |pages=199–202 |year=2005 |pmid=15758995 |doi=10.1038/nature03383 |author2=Bruner BD |author3=Huse N |display-authors=3 |last4=Dwyer |first4=J. R. |last5=Chugh |first5=B. |last6=Nibbering |first6=E. T. J. |last7=Elsaesser |first7=T. |last8=Miller |first8=R. J. D.|bibcode = 2005Natur.434..199C |s2cid=4396493 }}</ref> is mentioned by some secondary sources<ref name="SpellmanPrice-Bayer2010">{{cite book|author1=Frank R. Spellman|author2=Joni Price-Bayer|title=In Defense of Science: Why Scientific Literacy Matters|url=https://archive.org/details/indefenseofscien0000spel|url-access=registration|date=16 December 2010|publisher=Government Institutes|isbn=978-1-60590-711-6|pages=[https://archive.org/details/indefenseofscien0000spel/page/77 77]}}</ref><ref>{{citation|last=Novella|first=Steven|author-link=Steven Novella|title=The Memory of Water: The Science of Medicine|volume=35|issue=3|date=May–June 2011|journal=Skeptical Inquirer|url=http://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_memory_of_water/}}</ref> in connection to the implausibility of water memory.

===Publication in ''Nature'' ===
Benveniste submitted his research to the prominent [[science journal]] ''[[Nature (journal)|Nature]]'' for publication. There was concern on the part of ''Nature's'' editorial oversight board that the material, if published, would lend credibility to homeopathic practitioners even if the effects were not replicable.<ref name="time" /> There was equal concern that the research was simply wrong, given the changes that it would demand of the known laws of physics and chemistry. The editor of ''Nature'', [[John Maddox]], stated that, "Our minds were not so much closed as unready to change our whole view of how science is constructed."<ref name="time" /> Rejecting the paper on any objective grounds was deemed unsupportable, as there were no methodological flaws apparent at the time.

In the end, a compromise was reached. The paper was published in ''Nature'' Vol. 333 on 30 June 1988,<ref name="benveniste" /> but it was accompanied with an editorial by Maddox that noted "There are good and particular reasons why prudent people should, for the time being, suspend judgement" and described some of the fundamental laws of chemistry and physics which it would violate, if shown to be true.<ref name=NatureEditorial /> Additionally, Maddox demanded that the experiments be re-run under the supervision of a hand-picked group of what became known as "ghostbusters", including Maddox, famed magician and paranormal researcher [[James Randi]], and [[Walter W. Stewart (chemist)|Walter W. Stewart]], a chemist and freelance [[debunker]] at the [[U.S. National Institutes of Health]].<ref>{{citation |title= E-mailed Antigens and Iridium's Iridescence |others= column "Psychic Vibrations" |author= Robert Sheaffer |volume= 22 |issue= 1 |date= January–February 1998 |work= [[Skeptical Inquirer]] |url= http://www.csicop.org/si/show/e-mailed_antigens_and_iridiumrsquos_iridescence/ |author-link= Robert Sheaffer }}</ref>

==Post-publication supervised experiments==
Under supervision of Maddox and his team, Benveniste and his team of researchers followed the original study's procedure and produced results similar to those of the first published data. Maddox, however, noted that during the procedure, the experimenters were aware of which test tubes originally contained the antibodies and which did not. Benveniste's team then started a second, blinded experimental series with Maddox and his team in charge of the [[double-blind experiment|double-blinding]]: notebooks were photographed, the lab videotaped, and vials juggled and secretly coded. Randi even went so far as to wrap the labels in newspaper, seal them in an envelope, and then stick them on the ceiling. This was done so that Benveniste and his team could not read them.<ref name="horizon">James Randi in interview for BBC Horizon: {{cite web | title=Science & Nature - Horizon - Homeopathy: The Test | website=BBC | date=10 December 2003 | url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml | access-date=28 April 2021}}</ref> The blinded experimental series showed no water memory effect.

Maddox's team published a report on the supervised experiments in the next issue (July 1988) of ''Nature''.<ref name="maddox">{{cite journal
| journal = Nature
| title = "High-dilution" experiments a delusion
| volume = 334
| date = 28 July 1988
| author = J. Maddox
|author2=J. Randi |author3=W. W. Stewart
| pages = 287–290
| doi = 10.1038/334287a0
| pmid = 2455869
| issue = 6180
| bibcode=1988Natur.334..287M| s2cid = 9579433
}}</ref> Maddox's team concluded "that there is no substantial basis for the claim that anti-IgE at high dilution (by factors as great as 10120) retains its biological effectiveness, and that the hypothesis that water can be imprinted with the memory of past solutes is as unnecessary as it is fanciful." Maddox's team initially speculated that someone in the lab "was playing a trick on Benveniste",<ref name="time" /> but later concluded that, "We believe the laboratory has fostered and then cherished a delusion about the interpretation of its data." Maddox also pointed out that two of Benveniste's researchers were being paid by the French homeopathic company [[Boiron]].<ref name="maddox"/>

===Aftermath===
In a response letter published in the same July issue of ''Nature'', Benveniste lashed out at Maddox and complained about the "ordeal" that he had endured at the hands of the ''Nature'' team, comparing it to "[[Salem witchhunt]]s or [[McCarthyism|McCarthy]]-like prosecutions."<ref name="letters">{{cite journal|journal=Nature |title=Dr Jacques Benveniste replies |volume=334 |date=28 July 1988 |author=J. Benveniste |pages=291 |url=http://br.geocities.com/criticandokardec/benveniste02.pdf |doi=10.1038/334291a0 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20091018233412/http://br.geocities.com/criticandokardec/benveniste02.pdf |archive-date=18 October 2009 |issue=6180 |bibcode=1988Natur.334..291B |s2cid=4362490 |url-status=unfit |doi-access=free }}</ref> Both in the ''Nature'' response and during a later episode of ''[[Quirks and Quarks]]'', Benveniste especially complained about Stewart, who he claimed acted as if they were all frauds and treated them with disdain, complaining about his "typical know-it-all attitude". In his ''Nature'' letter, Benveniste also implied that Randi was attempting to hoodwink the experimental run by doing magic tricks, "distracting the technician in charge of its supervision!" He was more apologetic on ''Quirks and Quarks'', re-phrasing his mention of Randi to imply that he had kept the team ''amused'' with his tricks and that his presence was generally welcomed. He also pointed out that although it was true two of his team members were being paid by a homeopathic company, the same company had paid Maddox's team's hotel bill.

Maddox was unapologetic, stating "I'm sorry we didn't find something more interesting." On the same ''Quirks and Quarks'' show, he dismissed Benveniste's complaints, stating that, because of the possibility that the results would be unduly promoted by the homeopathy community, an immediate re-test was necessary. The failure of the tests demonstrated that the initial results were likely due to the [[Observer-expectancy effect|experimenter effect]]. He also pointed out that the entire test procedure, that Benveniste later complained about, was one that had been agreed upon in advance by all parties. It was only after the test had failed that Benveniste disputed its appropriateness.

The debate continued in the letters section of ''Nature'' for several issues before being ended by the editorial board. It continued in the French press for some time,<ref name="controversy">{{cite journal
| journal = Nature
| title = Benveniste controversy rages on in the French press
| volume = 334
| date = 28 July 1988
| author = P. Coles
| pages = 372
| doi = 10.1038/334372a0
| pmid = 2457165
| issue = 6181
|bibcode = 1988Natur.334..372C | doi-access = free
}}</ref> and in September Benveniste [[Jacques Benveniste#After Dark|appeared]] on the British television discussion programme ''[[After Dark (TV series)|After Dark]]'' to debate the events live with Randi and others. In spite of all the arguing over the retests, it had done nothing to stop what Maddox worried about: even in light of the tests' failure, they were still being used to claim that the experiments "prove" that homeopathy works. One of Benveniste's co-authors on the ''Nature'' paper, Francis Beauvais, later stated that while unblinded experimental trials usually yielded "correct" results (''i.e.'' ultradiluted samples were biologically active, controls were not), "the results of blinded samples were almost always at random and did not fit the expected results: some 'controls' were active and some 'active' samples were without effect on the biological system."<ref>{{cite journal | last1 = Beauvais | first1 = Francis | year = 2008 | title = Memory of water and blinding | journal = Homeopathy | volume = 97 | issue = 1| pages = 41–42 | pmid = 18194766 | doi=10.1016/j.homp.2007.10.001 }}</ref>

==Subsequent research==

In the [[cold fusion]] or [[polywater]] controversies, many scientists started replications immediately, because the underlying theories did not go directly against scientific fundamental principles and could be accommodated with a few tweaks to those principles.<ref name="ball" /> But Benveniste's experiment went directly against several principles, causing most researchers to outright reject the results as errors or fabrication, with only a few researchers willing to perform replications or experiments that could validate or reject his hypotheses.<ref name="ball">{{citation |title= Life's matrix: a biography of water |author= Philip Ball |edition= illustrated, reprinted |publisher= University of California Press |year= 2001 |isbn= 978-0-520-23008-8 |page= 328 |url= https://books.google.com/books?id=vPVdHwpkfu0C |author-link= Philip Ball }}</ref>

After the ''Nature'' controversy, Benveniste gained the public support of [[Brian David Josephson|Brian Josephson]],<ref>Brian Josephson, [http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/water.memory/ns/homeopathy.html molecule memories], ''New Scientist'' letters, 1 November 1997</ref> a [[Nobel Prize|Nobel laureate]] physicist with a reputation for openness to paranormal claims. Experiments continued along the same basic lines, culminating with a 1997 paper claiming the effect could be transmitted over phone lines.<ref>{{cite journal|last1=Benveniste|first1=J|last2=Jurgens|first2=P|last3=Hsueh|first3=W|last4=Aissa|first4=J |title= Transatlantic Transfer of Digitized Antigen Signal by Telephone Link|journal=Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology|date=January 1997|volume=99|issue=1|pages=S101–S200|doi=10.1016/S0091-6749(97)81064-0}}</ref> This was followed by two additional papers in 1999<ref name=informed>{{cite journal|last1=Benveniste|first1=J|last2=Aissa|first2=J|last3=Guillonnet|first3=D| journal = FASEB Journal| title = The molecular signal is not functional in the absence of "informed" water| volume = 13|issue= 4|pages=A163}}</ref> and another from 2000, in the controversial non-[[peer review]]ed ''[[Medical Hypotheses]]'', on remote-transmission, by which time it was claimed that it could also be sent over the [[Internet]].<ref>{{cite journal|last1=Thomas|first1=Y.|last2=Schiff|first2=M.|last3=Belkadi|first3=L.|last4=Jurgens|first4=P.|last5=Kahhak|first5=L.|last6=Benveniste|first6=J.|title=Activation of human neutrophils by electronically transmitted phorbol–myristate acetate|journal=[[Medical Hypotheses]]|date=2000|volume=54|issue=1|pages=33–39|doi=10.1054/mehy.1999.0891|pmid=10790721}}</ref>

''Time'' magazine reported in 1999 that, in response to skepticism from physicist [[Robert L. Park|Robert Park]], Josephson had challenged the [[American Physical Society]] (APS) to oversee a replication by Benveniste. This challenge was to be "a randomized double-blind test", of his claimed ability to transfer the characteristics of homeopathically altered solutions over the Internet:<ref>Leon Jaroff, [http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,24440,00.html Homeopathic E-Mail], ''Time Magazine'', 9 May 1999</ref><blockquote>[Benveniste's] latest theory, and the cause of the current flap, is that the "memory" of water in a homeopathic solution has an electromagnetic "signature." This signature, he says, can be captured by a copper coil, digitized and transmitted by wire—or, for extra flourish, over the Internet—to a container of ordinary water, converting it to a homeopathic solution.</blockquote>The APS accepted the challenge and offered to cover the costs of the test. When he heard of this, Randi offered to throw in the long-standing [[One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge|$1 million prize]] for any positive demonstration of the paranormal, to which Benveniste replied: "Fine to us."<ref>Jacques Benveniste and Didier Guillonnet, [https://web.archive.org/web/20010415020240/http://digibio.com/doc/nl1999-2us.txt DigiBio - NewsLetter 1999.2], "Demonstration challenge, etc." section</ref> In his ''DigiBio NewsLetter''. Randi later noted that Benveniste and Josephson did not follow up on their challenge, mocking their silence on the topic as if they were missing persons.<ref>James Randi, [http://www.randi.org/jr/01-26-2001.html Computer problems, a Nobel Laureate reneges, more magnetic shoes, the metric system, and ...], ''Commentary'', 26 January 2001</ref>

An independent test of the 2000 remote-transmission experiment was carried out in the US by a team funded by the [[United States Department of Defense]]. Using the same experimental devices and setup as the Benveniste team, they failed to find any effect when running the experiment. Several "positive" results were noted, but only when a particular one of Benveniste's researchers was running the equipment. "We did not observe systematic influences such as pipetting differences, contamination, or violations in blinding or randomization that would explain these effects from the Benveniste investigator. However, our observations do not exclude these possibilities."

Benveniste admitted to having noticed this himself. "He stated that certain individuals consistently get digital effects and other individuals get no effects or block those effects."<ref name=dod>{{cite journal | journal = FASEB Journal | title = Can specific biological signals be digitized?| volume = 20| issue = 1| pages = 23–28|date=January 2006| author= Jonas, Wayne B.
|author2=John A. Ives |author3=Florence Rollwagen |author4=Daniel W. Denman |author5=Kenneth Hintz |author6=Mitchell Hammer |author7=Cindy Crawford |author8=Kurt Henry | doi = 10.1096/fj.05-3815hyp | pmid = 16394263| s2cid = 23116745| url = https://semanticscholar.org/paper/cf9ad3bdf036981ff0fad25da613ed7b1612ee35}}</ref>

Third-party attempts at replication of the Benveniste experiment to date have failed to produce positive results that could be independently replicated. In 1993, ''Nature'' published a paper describing a number of follow-up experiments that failed to find a similar effect,<ref name="followups">{{cite journal| journal = Nature| title = Human basophil degranulation is not triggered by very dilute antiserum against human IgE| volume = 366| issue = 5| date = 9 December 1993| author = Hirst S. J. |author2=Hayes N. A. |author3=Burridge J. |author4=Pearce FL |author5=Foreman JC. | pages = 525–527| pmid = 8255290 | doi = 10.1038/366525a0|bibcode = 1993Natur.366..525H | s2cid = 4314547}}</ref> and an independent study published in ''[[Experientia]]'' in 1992 showed no effect.<ref>{{cite journal|last1=Ovelgönne|first1=J. H.|last2=Bol|first2=A. W. J. M.|last3=Hop|first3=W. C. J.|last4=van Wijk|first4=R.|title=Mechanical agitation of very dilute antiserum against IgE has no effect on basophil staining properties|journal=Experientia|date=1992|volume=48|issue=5|pages=504–508|doi=10.1007/BF01928175|pmid=1376282|s2cid=32110713}}</ref> An international team led by Professor [[Madeleine Ennis]] of [[Queen's University of Belfast]] claimed in 1999 to have replicated the Benveniste results.<ref name="ennis">{{cite journal| journal = Inflammation Research| title = Inhibition of human basophil degranulation by successive histamine dilutions: Results of a European multi-centre trial| volume = 48| issue = Supplement 1| pages = 17–18|date=April 1999 | author= P. Belon |author2=J. Cumps |author3=M. Ennis |author4=P. F. Mannaioni |author5=J. Sainte-Laudy |author6=M. Roberfroid |author7=F. A. C. Wiegant | doi =10.1007/s000110050376| pmid=10350142| s2cid = 11803836}}</ref><ref>{{Cite journal | title= Thanks for the memory. Experiments have backed what was once a scientific 'heresy', says Lionel Milgrom | author= Lionel Milgrom| journal= [[The Guardian]]| date= 2001-03-15| url = https://www.theguardian.com/science/2001/mar/15/technology2 | publisher= [[Guardian Unlimited]]
}}</ref> Randi then forwarded the $1 million challenge to the [[BBC]] ''[[Horizon (BBC TV series)|Horizon]]'' program to prove the "water memory" theory following Ennis's experimental procedure. In response, experiments were conducted with the vice-president of the [[Royal Society]], Professor John Enderby, overseeing the proceedings. The challenge ended with no memory effect observed by the Horizon team.<ref name="bbc">{{cite web | url = http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathytrans.shtml
| title = Homeopathy: The test. Transcript. | publisher = [[BBC Two]] | date = 2003-11-26 | access-date = 2007-03-04}}</ref> For a piece on homeopathy, the ABC program [[20/20 (US television series)|20/20]] also attempted, unsuccessfully, to reproduce Ennis's results.<ref>{{cite news | last = Stossel | first = John | author-link=John Stossel|title = Homeopathic Remedies - Can Water Really Remember? | work = [[20/20 (US television series)|20/20]] | publisher = [[ABC News]] | year = 2008 | url = https://abcnews.go.com/print?id=124309 | access-date = 2008-01-22}}</ref> Ennis has claimed that these tests did not follow her own experiment protocols.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Ennis |first1=Madeleine |title=E-mail from Professor Ennis on the specific differences in her study and the studies by ABC News (20/20) and the BBC |url=https://homeopathic.com/e-mail-from-professor-ennis-on-the-specific-differences-in-her-study-and-the-studies-by-abc-news-2020-and-the-bbc/ |access-date=4 December 2018 |work=homeopathic.com}}</ref>

== Other scientists ==

In 2003 Louis Rey, a chemist from Lausanne, reported that frozen samples of lithium and sodium chloride solutions prepared according to homeopathic prescriptions showed – after being exposed to radiation – different thermoluminescence peaks compared with pure water. Rey claimed that this suggested that the networks of hydrogen bonds in homeopathic dilutions were different.<ref>{{cite journal | last1 = Rey | first1 = L | year = 2003 | title = Thermoluminescence of ultra-high dilutions of lithium chloride and sodium chloride | journal = Physica A | volume = 323 | pages = 67–74 | doi = 10.1016/s0378-4371(03)00047-5 | bibcode = 2003PhyA..323...67R }}</ref>
These results have never been replicated and are not generally accepted - even Benveniste criticised them, pointing out that they were not blinded.<ref>[http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3817 Icy claim that water has memory] ''New Scientist'' 11 June 2003</ref>

In January 2009, [[Luc Montagnier]], the Nobel Laureate virologist who led the team that discovered the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), claimed (in a paper published in a journal that he set up, which seems to have avoided conventional peer review as it was accepted three days after submission) that the DNA of [[pathogen]]ic bacteria and viruses massively diluted in water emit radio waves that he can detect.<ref>{{cite journal | last1 = Montagnier | first1 = L | display-authors = etal | year = 2009 | title = Electromagnetic signals are produced by aqueous nanostructures derived from bacterial DNA sequences | journal = Interdiscip Sci | volume = 1 | issue = 2| pages = 81–90 | pmid = 20640822 | doi = 10.1007/s12539-009-0036-7 | s2cid = 7158953 }}</ref> The device used to detect these signals was developed by Jacques Benveniste, and was independently tested, with the co-operation of the Benveniste team, at the request of the United States [[Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency]]. That investigation was unable to replicate any effects of digital signals using the device.<ref>{{cite journal | last1 = Jonas | first1 = WB | display-authors = etal | year = 2006 | title = Can specific biological signals be digitized? | journal = FASEB J | volume = 20 | issue = 1 | pages = 23–8 | pmid = 16394263 | doi = 10.1096/fj.05-3815hyp | s2cid = 23116745 }}</ref>

In 2010, at the age of 78, Montagnier announced that he would take on the leadership of a new research institute at Jiaotong University in Shanghai, where he plans to continue this work. He claims that the findings "are very reproducible and we are waiting for confirmation by other labs", but said, in an interview with ''Science'', "There is a kind of fear around this topic in Europe. I am told that some people have reproduced Benveniste's results, but they are afraid to publish it because of the intellectual terror from people who don't understand it." Montagnier had called Benveniste "a modern [[Galileo]]", but the problem was that "his results weren't 100% reproducible".<ref>Newsmaker interview: {{cite journal | last1 = Montagnier | first1 = Luc | date = Dec 2010 | title = French Nobelist escapes 'intellectual terror' to pursue radical ideas in China. Interview by Martin Enserink | journal = Science | volume = 330 | issue = 6012| page = 1732 | doi = 10.1126/science.330.6012.1732 | pmid = 21205644 }}</ref>

== Homeopathic coverage ==
To most scientists, the "memory of water" is not something that deserves serious consideration; the only evidence is the flawed Benveniste work. By contrast, the notion of "memory of water" has been taken seriously among [[homeopathy|homeopaths]]. For them, it seemed to be part of a possible explanation of why some of their remedies might work.
An overview of the issues surrounding the memory of water was the subject of a special issue of ''Homeopathy.'' In an editorial, the editor of ''Homeopathy'', [[Peter Fisher (physician)|Peter Fisher]], acknowledged that Benveniste's original method does not yield reproducible results and declared "...the memory of water is a bad memory: it casts a long shadow over homeopathy and is just about all that many scientists recall about the scientific investigation of homeopathy, equating it with poor or even fraudulent science." The issue was an attempt to restore some credibility to the notion with articles proposing various, very different theories of water memory, such as: electromagnetic exchange of information between molecules, breaking of temporal symmetry, thermoluminescence, entanglement described by a new quantum theory, formation of hydrogen peroxide, clathrate formation, etc. Some of the proposed mechanisms would require overthrowing much of 20th century physics.<ref name="Homeopathy2007">{{citation
| editor = Martin Chaplin
| date = 2007
| title = The Memory of Water ''Homeopathy'' 96:141-230}}
::Copies of the articles in this special issue are freely available on a private website, along with discussion. [http://www.badscience.net/?p=490 Homeopathy Journal Club] hosted by Bad Science, a blog by Ben Goldacre</ref>

==See also==
{{portal|Water}}
* [[Hexagonal water]]
* [[DNA teleportation]]
* [[List of experimental errors and frauds in physics]]
* [[List of topics characterized as pseudoscience]]
* [[Pathological science]]
* [[Pseudoscience]]
* [[Scientific misconduct]]
* [[Masaru Emoto]]
* [[Homeopathic dilutions]]

==References==
{{reflist}}
{{Pseudoscience}}
{{Homeopathy}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Water Memory}}
[[Category:Homeopathy]]
[[Category:Pathological science]]
[[Category:Pseudoscience]]
[[Category:Water chemistry controversies]]

Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Chicago Happy Tree Friends vandal

2022-06-07T18:42:54Z

HelixxUnderscore: add new case

{{Infobox vandal
|name=Chicago Happy Tree Friends vandal
|shortcut=[[WP:LTA/HTF]]
|Originalname=
|lifespan=
|ISP=various
|IPs=
|hostmasks=
|location=[[Chicago, Illinois]] area
|severity=Medium
|RFCs=|SPIs=|RFARs=|Instructions=When found, report to [[WP:AIV]] and update this case page.|status=active}}

== Basic information ==

This IP hopper located in the [[Chicago|Chicago, Illinois]] area is most known for adding the adult-animated show [[Happy Tree Friends]] to the [[list of programs broadcast by Cartoonito]], [[Template:Cartoonito USA original programming|the Cartoonito USA original programming template]], and the [[Cartoonito (American programming block)|Cartoonito programming block page]] and claims that it is airing there in 2022. However, other general vandalism is committed as well. Will often edit war with other users in an attempt to reinstate their edits, false or not.

=== Targeted areas, pages, themes ===

Other targeted pages besides Cartoonito-related ones include:
* the Chicago Transit Authority (ex. [[Lawrence station (CTA)]], [[Brown Line (CTA)]], [[3200-series (CTA)]], [[List of Chicago "L" stations]], [[Chicago "L" rolling stock]])
* IdeaPad (ex. [[IdeaPad]], [[IdeaPad Y series]], [[IdeaPad Flex]])
* laptops (ex. [[HP Pavilion]], [[Acer TravelMate]], [[HP Essential laptops]], [[Dell Inspiron]], [[Acer Aspire]], [[ThinkPad]])
* computer companies (ex. [[Dell Technologies]], [[HP Inc.]], [[Acer Inc.]])
* disambiguation pages (ex. [[3000 series]], most often adding laptop or computer-related entries)

== IPs and ranges ==
{| class="wikitable"
|+
!IP address or range
!Geolocates to
!ISP/organization
!Blocked?
|-
|{{Rangevandal|2603:300A:1507:300:0:0:0:0/64}}
|[[Naperville, Illinois]]
|Comcast Business
|Blocked 2 weeks June 2022
|-
|{{Range vandal|2601:241:200:0:0:0:0:0/40}}
|[[Chicago|Chicago, Illinois]]
|[[Xfinity]]
|
* 2601:241:200:5DD0:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 48 hours then 1 week December 2021, 1 month January 2022, 59 days February 2022, 6 months April 2022
*2601:241:200:5DD0:9D4D:148A:D351:F3E6 blocked 60 hours January 2022
* 2601:241:280:580:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 2 weeks July 2021, 3 months August 2021, 6 months November 2021
|-
|{{Range vandal|2601:240:106:ab18:ac1d:1847:8704:1ec0/44}}
|Chicago, Illinois
|Xfinity
|
* 2601:240:105:FD79:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 1 month July 2021
|-
|{{Rangevandal|2601:240:cd0b:496d::/44}}
|Chicago, Illinois
|Xfinity
|2601:240:CD00:615A:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 1 week January 2022, 2601:240:cd00::/44 blocked 1 month January 2022
|-
|{{Rangevandal|2600:1008:b000::/39}}
|Chicago, Illinois
|[[Verizon (mobile network)|Verizon Wireless]]
|
* 2600:1008:B014:BAD2:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 1 month January 2022
* 2600:1008:B065:7BBD:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 2 weeks February 2022
* 2600:1008:B14B:CDEF:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 2 weeks February 2022
* 2600:1008:B067:2642:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 60 hours February 2022
* 2600:1008:B020:B4F9:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 1 week February 2022
* Blocked 3 months March 2022
|-
|{{IPvandal|2600:387:f:910::/61}}
|[[Springfield, Illinois]]
|AT&T Wireless
|
* 2600:387:f:910::/62 blocked 72 hours January 2022
* 2600:387:f:911::/64 blocked 2 weeks January 2022
* 2600:387:F:915:0:0:0:0/64 blocked 2 weeks January 2022
* Blocked 6 months February 2022
|-
|{{IPvandal|User=96.65.101.181}}
|[[Evanston, Illinois]]
|[[Comcast Business]]
|Never blocked
|-
|{{IPvandal|User=71.239.45.79}}
|Chicago, Illinois
|Xfinity
|Blocked 31 then 72 hours December 2021, blocked 1 month January 2022, 1 year February 2022
|-
|{{IPvandal|User=73.50.99.122}}
|[[Harwood Heights, Illinois]]
|Xfinity
|Blocked 31 hours then 2 weeks then 1 month December 2021
|-
|{{Rangevandal|174.209.32.0/20}}
|Chicago, Illinois
|Verizon Wireless
|
* 174.209.37.166 blocked 31 hours October 2021
*174.209.43.39 blocked 31 hours November 2021
* 174.209.37.121 blocked 24 hours December 2021
|-
|{{IPvandal|User=107.77.206.160}}
|Chicago, Illinois
|[[AT&T Mobility|AT&T Wireless]]
|Blocked 31 hours November 2021
|-
|{{IPvandal|73.51.185.108}}
|[[Elmwood Park, Illinois]]
|Xfinity
|Blocked 72 hours then 1 week January 2022
|-
|}

=== Mexico-based "Made in China"/Chinese disruption ===
A /64, {{rangevandal|2600:1008:B067:2642:0:0:0:0/64}}, which is on a range used by this vandal, have reinstated edits on computer company pages (a known target of this vandal) that state that these companies are Chinese by another vandal in [[Monterrey, Mexico]], making it possible that the two are connected.

* {{rangevandal|2806:108E:22:1AE9:0:0:0:0/64}} - blocked 31 hours February 2022
* {{rangevandal|2806:108E:18:ED2:0:0:0:0/64}} - blocked 3 days February 2022
* {{IPvandal|189.159.42.208}} - blocked 31 hours February 2022

User talk:RowanImposterSussy

2022-06-02T16:45:23Z

HelixxUnderscore: Notification: speedy deletion nomination of :Draft:Chrotimology.

== Welcome! ==

Hello, RowanImposterSussy, and [[Help:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as [[:Draft:Chrotimology]], may not conform to some of Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Core content policies|content policies]] and may not be retained. In short, the topic of an article must be [[Wikipedia:Notability|notable]] and have already been the subject of publication by [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable]] and [[Wikipedia:Independent sources|independent sources]].

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==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Draft:Chrotimology]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]

Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, introducing inappropriate pages, such as [[:Draft:Chrotimology]], is considered [[WP:VAND|vandalism]] and is prohibited. If you would like to experiment, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Repeated vandalism may result in the [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|'''loss of editing privileges''']]. Under [[Wikipedia:CSD#G3|section G3 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], the page has been nominated for deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Draft:Chrotimology|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]].  [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:45, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

User talk:Krishan Godara.1

2022-06-02T16:42:30Z

HelixxUnderscore: Welcome to Wikipedia!

==Welcome!==
Hello, Krishan Godara.1, and '''[[Wikipedia:Welcoming_committee/Welcome_to_Wikipedia|welcome to Wikipedia]]'''! Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Krishan Godara.1|your contributions]].

I noticed that one of the first articles you created or edited was [[:Draft:Krishan Godara]], which appears to be an article [[Wikipedia:Autobiography|about yourself]]. Creating an autobiography is a [[Wikipedia:Avoiding common mistakes|common mistake]] made by new [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedians]]—as this is an encyclopedia, we wouldn't expect to have an article about every contributor. We require individuals to meet Wikipedia's definition of a [[WP:BIO|notable person]] to accept articles about them.

The page you created about yourself may well be deleted from the encyclopedia. If it is deleted and you wish to retrieve its contents, don't hesitate to ask [[:Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to provide copies of deleted articles|anyone from this list]] and they will copy it to your user page. If your contributions to an existing article about yourself are undone and you wish to add to it, please propose the changes on its talk page.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign]] your messages on [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]]s using four [[tilde]]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]], ask me on [[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|my talk page]], or ask your question on this page and then place <code><nowiki>{{help me}}</nowiki></code> before the question. Again, welcome!  [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:42, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

User talk:Izxudin

2022-06-02T16:37:51Z

HelixxUnderscore: Welcome to Wikipedia!

==Welcome!==
Hello, Izxudin, and '''[[Wikipedia:Welcoming_committee/Welcome_to_Wikipedia|welcome to Wikipedia]]'''! Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Izxudin|your contributions]].

I noticed that one of the first articles you created or edited was [[:Draft:Izxudin]], which appears to be an article [[Wikipedia:Autobiography|about yourself]]. Creating an autobiography is a [[Wikipedia:Avoiding common mistakes|common mistake]] made by new [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedians]]—as this is an encyclopedia, we wouldn't expect to have an article about every contributor. We require individuals to meet Wikipedia's definition of a [[WP:BIO|notable person]] to accept articles about them.

The page you created about yourself may well be deleted from the encyclopedia. If it is deleted and you wish to retrieve its contents, don't hesitate to ask [[:Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to provide copies of deleted articles|anyone from this list]] and they will copy it to your user page. If your contributions to an existing article about yourself are undone and you wish to add to it, please propose the changes on its talk page.

Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
*[[Wikipedia:Five pillars|The five pillars of Wikipedia]]
*[[Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia|Contributing to Wikipedia]]
*[[Wikipedia:Tutorial|Tutorial]]
*[[Help:Editing|How to edit a page]] and [[Wikipedia:Article development|How to develop articles]]
*[[Wikipedia:Your first article|How to create your first article]] (using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] if you wish)
*[[Wikipedia:Simplified Manual of Style|Simplified Manual of Style]]
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign]] your messages on [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]]s using four [[tilde]]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]], ask me on [[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|my talk page]], or ask your question on this page and then place <code><nowiki>{{help me}}</nowiki></code> before the question. Again, welcome!  [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:37, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

User talk:I Dhruv Kumar

2022-06-02T16:35:01Z

HelixxUnderscore: Notification: speedy deletion nomination of :Draft:Dhruv Kumar.

{{Talk header}}

== Your submission at [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for creation]]: [[User:I Dhruv Kumar/sandbox|sandbox]] (June 2) ==
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> [[File:AFC-Logo_Decline.svg|50px|left]]Your recent article submission to [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for Creation]] has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time.<nowiki> </nowiki>The reason left by Eagleash was:

{{divbox|gray|3=This submission seems to be a test edit and not an article worthy of an encyclopedia. Please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]] for any editing tests, but do not submit for review until you have an article that you want reviewed for inclusion in Wikipedia. Thank you.|}} Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit ''after they have been resolved''.
{{clear}}
* If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to [[User:I Dhruv Kumar/sandbox]] and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
* If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to [[User:I Dhruv Kumar/sandbox]], click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{tl|Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
* If you do not make any further changes to your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G13. Abandoned Drafts and Articles for creation submissions|may be deleted]].
* If you need any assistance, or have experienced any [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Scam warning|untoward behavior]] associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=User:I_Dhruv_Kumar/sandbox '''Articles for creation help desk'''], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Eagleash&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=User:I_Dhruv_Kumar/sandbox '''reviewer's talk page'''] or use [[Wikipedia:IRC help disclaimer|Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors]].

[[User:Eagleash|Eagleash]] ([[User talk:Eagleash|talk]]) 05:19, 2 June 2022 (UTC)</div>

{| style="margin: 0.4em 2em;"
|- style="vertical-align: top;"
| [[File:WP teahouse logo 2.png|alt=Teahouse logo]]
| <div style="background-color:#e1e6db; color: #393D38; padding: 1em; font-size: 1.1em; border-radius:10px;box-shadow:-2px -2px 1px #8e8a78;">Hello, '''I Dhruv Kumar'''!
Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk|Articles for creation help desk]]'''. If you have any ''other'' questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the '''[[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]]''', a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! [[User:Eagleash|Eagleash]] ([[User talk:Eagleash|talk]]) 05:19, 2 June 2022 (UTC)</div>
|}
[[Category:Wikipedians who have received a Teahouse invitation through AfC]]
==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Draft:Dhruv Kumar]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
{{Quote box|quote=If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read [[WP:Your first article|the guide to writing your first article]].You may want to consider using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] to help you create articles.|width=20%|align=right}}
A tag has been placed on [[:Draft:Dhruv Kumar]], requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G11|section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read [[Wikipedia:Spam|the guidelines on spam]] and [[Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations]] for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Draft:Dhruv Kumar|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=Draft%3ADhruv+Kumar|deleting administrator}}.   [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:35, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

User talk:Riggs Thompson

2022-06-02T16:33:16Z

HelixxUnderscore: Notice: Creating autobiographies (RW 16.1)

{{Talk header}}

== Your submission at [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for creation]]: [[Draft:Riggs Thompson's Life|Riggs Thompson's Life]] (June 1) ==
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> [[File:AFC-Logo_Decline.svg|50px|left]]Your recent article submission to [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for Creation]] has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time.<nowiki> </nowiki>The reason left by KylieTastic was:

{{divbox|gray|3=This submission's references do not show that the subject [[Wikipedia:Notability|qualifies for a Wikipedia article]]—that is, they do not show ''significant'' coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in ''published'', [[Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources|''reliable'']], [[Wikipedia:No_original_research#Secondary|''secondary'']] sources that are ''[[Wikipedia:Identifying and using independent sources|independent]]'' of the subject (see the [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)|guidelines on the notability of people]]). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see [[Help:Referencing_for_beginners#Inserting_a_reference|technical help]] and learn about [[Wikipedia:Common sourcing mistakes (notability)|mistakes to avoid]] when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.|}} Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit ''after they have been resolved''.
{{clear}}
* If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to [[Draft:Riggs Thompson's Life]] and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
* If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to [[Draft:Riggs Thompson's Life]], click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{tl|Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
* If you do not make any further changes to your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G13. Abandoned Drafts and Articles for creation submissions|may be deleted]].
* If you need any assistance, or have experienced any [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Scam warning|untoward behavior]] associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Riggs_Thompson%27s_Life '''Articles for creation help desk'''], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:KylieTastic&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Riggs_Thompson%27s_Life '''reviewer's talk page'''] or use [[Wikipedia:IRC help disclaimer|Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors]].

[[User:KylieTastic|KylieTastic]] ([[User talk:KylieTastic|talk]]) 18:29, 1 June 2022 (UTC)</div>

{| style="margin: 0.4em 2em;"
|- style="vertical-align: top;"
| [[File:WP teahouse logo 2.png|alt=Teahouse logo]]
| <div style="background-color:#e1e6db; color: #393D38; padding: 1em; font-size: 1.1em; border-radius:10px;box-shadow:-2px -2px 1px #8e8a78;">Hello, '''Riggs Thompson'''!
Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk|Articles for creation help desk]]'''. If you have any ''other'' questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the '''[[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]]''', a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! [[User:KylieTastic|KylieTastic]] ([[User talk:KylieTastic|talk]]) 18:29, 1 June 2022 (UTC)</div>
|}
[[Category:Wikipedians who have received a Teahouse invitation through AfC]]

== Your submission at [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for creation]]: [[Draft:Oversimplefied|Oversimplefied]] (June 1) ==
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> [[File:AFC-Logo_Decline.svg|50px|left]]Your recent article submission to [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|Articles for Creation]] has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time.<nowiki> </nowiki>The reasons left by Mcmatter were:

{{divbox|gray|3=This submission is not adequately supported by [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. ''Reliable'' sources are required so that information can be [[WP:V|verified]]. If you need help with referencing, please see [[WP:REFB|Referencing for beginners]] and [[Wikipedia:Citing sources|Citing sources]].|}}{{divbox|gray|3=This submission's references do not show that the subject [[Wikipedia:Notability|qualifies for a Wikipedia article]]—that is, they do not show ''significant'' coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in ''published'', [[Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources|''reliable'']], [[Wikipedia:No_original_research#Secondary|''secondary'']] sources that are ''[[Wikipedia:Identifying and using independent sources|independent]]'' of the subject. Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see [[Help:Referencing for beginners|technical help]] and learn about [[Wikipedia:Common sourcing mistakes (notability)|mistakes to avoid]] when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.|}} Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit ''after they have been resolved''.
{{clear}}
* If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to [[Draft:Oversimplefied]] and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
* If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to [[Draft:Oversimplefied]], click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{tl|Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
* If you do not make any further changes to your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G13. Abandoned Drafts and Articles for creation submissions|may be deleted]].
* If you need any assistance, or have experienced any [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Scam warning|untoward behavior]] associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Oversimplefied '''Articles for creation help desk'''], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mcmatter&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Oversimplefied '''reviewer's talk page'''] or use [[Wikipedia:IRC help disclaimer|Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors]].

[[User:Mcmatter|McMatter]] ([[User talk:Mcmatter|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Mcmatter|contrib]]) 23:14, 1 June 2022 (UTC)</div>

== June 2022 ==
[[File:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello, and [[Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia|welcome to Wikipedia]]. We appreciate [[Special:Contributions/Riggs Thompson|your contributions]]; however, it appears you may have written a Wikipedia article, or a draft for a Wikipedia article, about yourself, at [[:Draft:Riggs Thompson's Life]]. Creating an autobiography is ''strongly'' discouraged – please see our [[Wikipedia:Autobiography|guideline on writing autobiographies]]. If you create such an article, it may be [[Wikipedia:Deletion Policy|deleted]]. If what you have done in life is genuinely [[Wikipedia:Notability|notable]] and can be verified according to our [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|policy for articles about living people]], someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later (see [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians with articles|Wikipedians with articles]]). If you wish to add to or change an existing article about yourself, you are welcome to propose the changes by visiting the article's talk page. Please understand that this is an encyclopedia and [[Wikipedia:NOTWEBHOST|not a personal web space or social networking site]]. If your article has already been deleted, please see: [[Wikipedia:Why was the page I created deleted?|Why was the page I created deleted?]], and if you feel the deletion was an error, please discuss this with the deleting administrator. Thank you. [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 16:33, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

User talk:LiosDigital

2022-05-26T19:18:03Z

HelixxUnderscore: Notification: speedy deletion nomination of :Draft:Lios Digital.

== Welcome! ==

Hello, LiosDigital, and [[Help:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as [[:Draft:Lios Digital]], may not conform to some of Wikipedia's [[Wikipedia:Core content policies|content policies]] and may not be retained. In short, the topic of an article must be [[Wikipedia:Notability|notable]] and have already been the subject of publication by [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable]] and [[Wikipedia:Independent sources|independent sources]].

Please review '''[[Help:Your first article|Your first article]]''' for an overview of the [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation|article creation process]]. The '''[[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]]''' is available to help you create an article, where it will be reviewed and considered for publication. For information on how to request a new article that can be created by someone else, see '''[[Wikipedia:Requested articles|Requested articles]].''' If you are stuck, come to the '''[[Wikipedia:Teahouse|Teahouse]]''', where experienced Wikipedians can help you through the processes.

New to Wikipedia? Please consider taking a look at [[Help:Introduction|our introductory tutorial]] or reviewing the [[Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia|contributing to Wikipedia]] page to learn the basics about editing. Below are a few other good pages about article creation.
* [[Wikipedia:Article development|Article development]]
* [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout|Standard layout]]
* [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section|Lead section]]
* [[Wikipedia:The perfect article|The perfect article]]
* [[Wikipedia:Task Center|Task Center]]{{snd}}need some ideas of what kind of things need doing? Go here.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign your name]] on talk pages using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, ask me on my talk page. You can also type '''{{tl|help me}}''' on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 19:18, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Draft:Lios Digital]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
{{Quote box|quote=If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read [[WP:Your first article|the guide to writing your first article]].You may want to consider using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] to help you create articles.|width=20%|align=right}}
A tag has been placed on [[:Draft:Lios Digital]], requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G11|section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read [[Wikipedia:Spam|the guidelines on spam]] and [[Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations]] for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Draft:Lios Digital|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=Draft%3ALios+Digital|deleting administrator}}.   [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 19:18, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

User talk:Numocity

2022-05-26T19:17:15Z

HelixxUnderscore: Notification: speedy deletion nomination of :Draft:About Numocity.

== May 2022 ==
<div class="user-block" style="padding: 5px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; border: 1px solid #a9a9a9; background-color: #ffefd5; min-height: 40px"> [[File:Stop x nuvola.svg|40px|left|alt=|link=]]Your account has been '''[[WP:Blocking policy#Indefinite blocks|indefinitely blocked]]''' from editing because of the following problems: the account has been used for [[WP:Spam|advertising or promotion]], which is [[WP:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion|contrary]] to the [[WP:Five pillars|purpose of Wikipedia]], and your username indicates that the account represents a business, organisation, group, or web site, which is against the [[WP:UN|username policy]].

You may request a change of username and unblock if you intend to make useful contributions instead of promoting your business or organization. To do this, first search [[Special:CentralAuth]] for available usernames that comply with the [[WP:UN|username policy]]. Once you have found an acceptable username, post the text {{tlx|unblock-spamun|Your proposed new username|Your reason here}} at the bottom of your talk page. Replace the text "Your proposed new username" with your new username and replace the text "Your reason here" with your reasons to be unblocked. In your reasons, '''you must''':
*Disclose any compensation you may receive for your contributions in accordance with the [[Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure]] requirement.
*Convince us that you understand the reason for your block and that you will not repeat the kind of edits for which you were blocked.
*Describe in general terms the contributions that you intend to make if you are unblocked.
'''Appeals:''' If, after reviewing the [[WP:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]], you believe this block was made in error, you may [[WP:Appealing a block|appeal it]] by adding the text {{tlx|unblock|Your reason here}} at the bottom of your talk page. Replace the text "Your reason here" with the reasons you believe the block was an error, and publish the page. [[User:Jauerback|Jauerback]][[User talk:Jauerback|dude?]]/[[Special:Contributions/Jauerback|dude.]] 13:10, 26 May 2022 (UTC)</div>[[Category:Wikipedians who are indefinitely blocked for promotional user names|{{PAGENAME}}]]
{{unblock reviewed |1= |decline = I am declining your unblock request because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that
*the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Wikipedia, or
*the block is no longer necessary because you
*#understand what you have been blocked for,
*#will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
*#will make useful contributions instead.

Please read the [[Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]] for more information. [[User:Yamla|Yamla]] ([[User talk:Yamla|talk]]) 14:30, 26 May 2022 (UTC)}}
==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Draft:About Numocity]]==
[[File:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]
{{Quote box|quote=If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read [[WP:Your first article|the guide to writing your first article]].You may want to consider using the [[Wikipedia:Article wizard|Article Wizard]] to help you create articles.|width=20%|align=right}}
A tag has been placed on [[:Draft:About Numocity]], requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G11|section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion]], because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read [[Wikipedia:Spam|the guidelines on spam]] and [[Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations]] for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may '''contest the nomination''' by [[:Draft:About Numocity|visiting the page]] and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with [[Wikipedia:List of policies|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]]. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the {{Querylink|Special:Log|qs=type=delete&page=Draft%3AAbout+Numocity|deleting administrator}}.   [[User:HelixxUnderscore|HelixxUnderscore]] ([[User talk:HelixxUnderscore|talk]]) 19:17, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Rhythm Heaven Fever

2022-05-26T18:47:26Z

HelixxUnderscore: remove repetitive language

{{more citations needed|date=August 2011}}
{{Infobox video game
| title = Rhythm Heaven Fever
| image = File:Rhythm-heaven-fever.jpg
| caption = North American game cover.
| developer = [[Nintendo SPD]] TNX Music Recordings
| publisher = [[Nintendo]]
| director =
| producer = [[Tsunku]]
| designer = Ko Takeuchi Masami Yone Takafumi Masaoka Kyohei Seki Takumi Hatakeyama
| programmer = Takafumi Masaoka Takumi Hatakeyama
| artist = Ko Takeuchi
| composer = [[Tsunku]] Masami Yone Shinji Ushiroda Asuka Ito
| released = {{vgrelease|JP|July 21, 2011|NA|February 13, 2012|EU|July 6, 2012|AUS|September 13, 2012|KOR|September 12, 2013}}
| genre = [[Music video game|Music]]
| modes = [[Single-player video game|Single-player]], [[Multiplayer video game|Multiplayer]]
| platforms = [[Wii]]
| engine =
}}

'''''Rhythm Heaven Fever''''',{{efn|Known in Japan as {{nihongo|'''''Minna no Rhythm Tengoku'''''|みんなのリズム天国|Minna no Rizumu Tengoku|''Everybody's Rhythm Heaven''}}}} known in [[PAL]] regions as '''''Beat The Beat: Rhythm Paradise''''', '''''Minna No Rhythm Tengoku''''' in Japan and '''''Rhythm World Wii''''' (모두의 리듬 Wii) in Korea, is a Japanese [[music video game]] developed by [[Nintendo]] and TNX for Nintendo's [[Wii]]. It is the third game in the ''Rhythm Heaven'' series, following ''[[Rhythm Tengoku]]'' for the [[Game Boy Advance]] and ''[[Rhythm Heaven]]'' for the [[Nintendo DS]], and was succeeded by ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'' for the [[Nintendo 3DS]] in 2016. The game was released in Japan on July 21, 2011, in North America on February 13, 2012, in Europe on July 6, 2012, and in Australia on September 13, 2012. It was digitally re-released for the [[Wii U]] in Japan on July 27, 2016, in North America on November 10, 2016, and in Europe on November 22, 2016.

==Gameplay==
As with ''[[Rhythm Tengoku]]'' and its [[Nintendo DS|DS]] sequel, ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' features various levels with their own set of rules, requiring the player to play in time to the rhythm in order to clear them. These levels range from stabbing peas with a fork, to attacking evil spirits with a sword, and playing badminton in midair. The game is played by either tapping the A button, or squeezing the A and B buttons together. At the end of each level, players are ranked on their performance, with at least an 'OK' rank required to clear the level and progress onto the next. Each set of levels culminates in a Remix stage, which combines all of the gameplay elements of the previous levels in one stage.

Clearing levels with a Superb rating earns medals that unlock extra content, including Rhythm Toys, Endless Games and four levels from the original ''[[Rhythm Tengoku]]'', plus a bonus credits level. Levels that have been cleared with a Superb rating may also be randomly selected for a Perfect attempt, in which the player can try to clear the level without making any mistakes with a maximum of 3 retries before the perfect challenge disappears. Clearing these unlock bonus items such as songs and lyrics. The game also features a Dual Mode in which two players can play simultaneously. Levels played in this mode require players to earn enough points in total to reach the desired rank and clear each stage, with bonus points awarded based on the harmony of the players that can improve the rank. These levels come with their own set of medals which can unlock multiplayer minigames.

==Development==
Producer [[Yoshio Sakamoto]] and [[Nintendo SPD|Nintendo SPD Group No.1]] were responsible for the programming, graphic design, and some of the music in the game. The development team made some prototypes using 3D models, however, they felt that the flow of the games worked best with 2D animation. Motion controls were also ignored in favor of more accurate button controls.

Collaborator and musician [[Tsunku]] and his music studio TNX created several of the performed vocal songs found throughout the game. These songs are "Tonight" (used in Remix 3), "Lonely Storm" (used in Karate Man, with a remixed version used in its sequel), "Dreams of Our Generation" (used in Night Walk), "I Love You, My One and Only" (used in Remix 8), and "Beautiful One Day" (used in Remix 9), all performed by Mana Ogawa, Soshi, Nice Girl Trainee, The Possible, and Canary Club respectively. For the English version, these songs were re-recorded by Annette Marie Cotrill, Aimee Blackschelger, and Clinton Edward Strother. Soundtrack albums for the game were only released in Japan. The first has all of the music from the game, which was released on August 24, 2011, and the second has the vocal songs used in the game, which was released on August 31, 2011.

In the English versions of the game, an endless minigame based on [[manzai]] routines was removed due to the dialogue focused nature of the game and was replaced with another minigame from ''[[Rhythm Tengoku]]'' known as "Mr. Upbeat".<ref>{{cite web |url=http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/rhythmheavenfever/0/3 |title=Iwata Asks - ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'': 4. Music Spinning in Your Head |publisher=[[Nintendo]] |access-date=May 7, 2013}}</ref> The European and Australian versions of the game allow players to toggle between English and Japanese voices and songs.<ref>{{cite web |last=Holmes |first=Jonathan |date=April 21, 2012 |url=http://www.destructoid.com/rhythm-heaven-comes-to-europe-in-english-and-japanese-226270.phtml |title=''Rhythm Heaven'' comes to Europe in English and Japanese |website=[[Destructoid]] |access-date=June 15, 2015}}</ref>

==Reception==
{{Video game reviews
| MC = 83/100<ref name="metacritic">{{cite web |url=http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/rhythm-heaven-fever |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' for Wii Reviews |website=[[Metacritic]] |access-date=May 7, 2013}}</ref>
| Destruct = 9.5/10<ref>{{cite web |last=Holmes |first=Jonathan |date=February 13, 2012 |url=https://www.destructoid.com/review-rhythm-heaven-fever-220990.phtml |title=Review: ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' |website=Destructoid |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| Edge = 8/10<ref>{{cite magazine |author=Edge staff |date=July 6, 2012 |url=http://www.edge-online.com/reviews/beat-beat-rhythm-paradise-review |title=''Beat The Beat: Rhythm Paradise'' review |magazine=[[Edge (magazine)|Edge]] |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120709002032/http://www.edge-online.com/reviews/beat-beat-rhythm-paradise-review |archive-date=July 9, 2012 |url-status=dead |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| EGM = 9/10<ref>{{cite magazine |last=Patterson |first=Eric |date=February 15, 2012 |url=http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/egm-review-rhythm-heaven-fever/ |title=EGM Review: ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' |magazine=[[Electronic Gaming Monthly|EGMNow]] |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| EuroG = 8/10<ref>{{cite web |last=Parkin |first=Simon |date=July 5, 2012 |url=http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-05-beat-the-beat-rhythm-paradise-review |title=''Beat the Beat: Rhythm Paradise'' Review |website=[[Eurogamer]] |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| Fam = 32/40<ref name="fam review">{{cite web |last=Gifford |first=Kevin |date=July 13, 2011 |url=http://www.1up.com/news/japan-review-check-rhythm-heaven |title=Japan Review Check: ''Rhythm Heaven'', No More Heroes'' |website=[[1UP.com]] |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20121019205313/http://www.1up.com/news/japan-review-check-rhythm-heaven |archive-date=October 19, 2012 }}</ref>
| GI = 8.5/10<ref>{{cite magazine |last=Hilliard |first=Kyle |date=February 29, 2012 |url=http://www.gameinformer.com/games/rhythm_heaven_fever/b/wii/archive/2012/02/29/rhythm-heaven-fever-review-nintendo-s-bizarre-musical-experiment-finds-a-home-on-the-wii.aspx |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'': Nintendo's Bizarre Musical Experiment Finds A Home On The Wii |magazine=[[Game Informer]] |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| GameRev = {{Rating|4|5}}<ref>{{cite web |last=Fettig |first=Eddy DS |date=February 27, 2012 |url=http://www.gamerevolution.com/review/rhythm-heaven-fever |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' Review |publisher=[[Game Revolution]] |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| GSpot = 8/10<ref>{{cite web |last=Meunier |first=Nathan |date=February 13, 2012 |url=http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/rhythm-heaven-fever-review/1900-6350268/ |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' Review |website=[[GameSpot]] |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| GT = 8.6/10<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gametrailers.com/reviews/7ytdi1/rhythm-heaven-fever-review |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' Review |publisher=[[GameTrailers]] |date=February 21, 2012 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120717013725/http://www.gametrailers.com/reviews/7ytdi1/rhythm-heaven-fever-review |archive-date=July 17, 2012 |url-status=dead |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| GB = {{Rating|5|5}}<ref>{{cite web |last=Navarro |first=Alex |date=February 22, 2012 |url=http://www.giantbomb.com/reviews/rhythm-heaven-fever-review/1900-473/ |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' Review |publisher=[[Giant Bomb]] |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| Hyper = 8/10<ref>{{cite journal |title=''Beat the Beat: Rhythm Paradise'' |journal=[[Hyper (magazine)|Hyper]] |date=December 2012}}</ref>
| IGN = 7/10<ref>{{cite web |last=Drake |first=Audrey |date=February 6, 2012 |url=http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/02/07/rhythm-heaven-fever-review |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' Review |website=[[IGN]]}}</ref>
| Joystiq = {{Rating|4|5}}<ref>{{cite web |last=Fletcher |first=JC |date=February 9, 2012 |url=https://www.engadget.com/2012/02/09/rhythm-heaven-fever-review-crazy-into-you/ |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' review: Crazy into you |publisher=[[Engadget]] ([[Joystiq]]) |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| NP = 8/10<ref>{{cite journal |title=''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' |journal=[[Nintendo Power]] |volume=276 |date=March 2012 |page=85}}</ref>
| rev1 = [[Digital Spy]]
| rev1Score = {{Rating|4|5}}<ref>{{cite web |last=Martin |first=Liam |date=July 9, 2012 |url=http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/review/a392385/beat-the-beat-rhythm-paradise-review-wii-a-bizarre-wonderful-treat/ |title=''Beat the Beat: Rhythm Paradise'' review (Wii): A bizarre, wonderful treat |website=[[Digital Spy]] |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
| rev2 = ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]''
| rev2Score = {{Rating|4.5|5}}<ref>{{cite magazine |last=Meyer |first=John Mix |date=February 8, 2012 |url=https://www.wired.com/2012/02/rhythm-heaven-fever-review/ |title=Review: I Don't Need No Doctor For This ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' |magazine=[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]] |access-date=August 19, 2016}}</ref>
}}
The game received "favorable" reviews according to the [[Review aggregator|review aggregation]] website [[Metacritic]].<ref name="metacritic"/> In Japan, ''[[Famitsu]]'' gave it a score of one nine, two eights, and one seven for a total of 32 out of 40,<ref name="fam review"/> and it sold over 100,000 copies in its first week there.<ref name="japan sales">{{cite web |last=Gantayat |first=Anoop |date=July 28, 2011 |url=http://andriasang.com/comx91/media_create_sales/ |title=Wii ''Rhythm Heaven'' Tops the Charts |publisher=Andriasang}}</ref>

==Notes==
{{notelist}}

==References==
{{Reflist|30em}}

==External links==
*{{Official website|http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/rhythm-heaven-fever-wii}} {{in lang|en}}
*{{Official website|http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/somj}} {{in lang|ja}}
*{{moby game|id=/wii/rhythm-heaven-fever}}

{{Rhythm Heaven}}

[[Category:2011 video games]]
[[Category:2012 video games]]
[[Category:2013 video games]]
[[Category:2016 video games]]
[[Category:Multiplayer and single-player video games]]
[[Category:Rhythm Heaven]]
[[Category:Video games developed in Japan]]
[[Category:Wii games]]
[[Category:Wii U games]]
[[Category:Wii games re-released on the Nintendo eShop]]
[[Category:Music video games]]
[[Category:Rhythm games]]

Zool

2022-05-06T18:03:52Z

HelixxUnderscore: correcting some grammar errors

{{for|the Swedish rock band|ZooL}}
{{Distinguish|Zoor: Majū Tsukai Densetsu|Zuul}}

{{Infobox video game
|title = Zool: Ninja of the Nth Dimension
|image = Zool cover.jpg
|image_size = 256px
|caption = Amiga cover art
|developer = [[Gremlin Interactive|Gremlin Graphics]]
|designer = George Allan
|publisher = [[Gremlin Interactive|Gremlin Graphics]]
|composer = [[Patrick Phelan (composer)|Patrick Phelan]] Neil Biggin (CD32)
|released = October 1992 March 1993 (MS-DOS)<ref>{{cite magazine |date=April 1993 |title=PC Zone Magazine |url=https://archive.org/stream/PC_Zone_Issue_001_1993-04_Dennis_Publishing_GB#page/n7 |magazine=[[PC Zone]] |issue=1 |page=9 |access-date=July 3, 2017}}</ref>
|genre = [[Platform game|Platform]]
|modes = [[Single-player video game|Single-player]]
|platforms = [[Acorn Archimedes]], [[Amiga]], [[Atari ST]], [[Amiga CD32]], [[MS-DOS]], [[Game Boy]], [[Game Gear]], [[Master System]], [[Sega Genesis|Genesis]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System|SNES]]
}}
'''''Zool: Ninja of the Nth Dimension''''' is a [[platform game]] originally produced for the [[Amiga]] by [[Gremlin Interactive|Gremlin Graphics]] in [[1992 in video gaming|1992]]. It was later ported to several other platforms and followed by ''[[Zool 2]]'' in 1993.

==Gameplay==
[[File:Zool snes.jpg|thumb|left|SNES gameplay screenshot]]

The game is a [[platform game]], relying on smooth, fast-moving gameplay. Its protagonist is Zool, a [[gremlin]] "[[Ninja]] of the Nth Dimension" who is forced to land on Earth; in order to gain ninja ranking, he has to pass seven lands, beating a [[Boss (video gaming)|boss]] at the end of each of them. The game contains a number of embedded [[minigame]]s, including several arcade games, a [[Scrolling shooters|scrolling space shooter]] and a game accessible only by making Zool play a certain tune on an in-game [[piano]] or finding certain invisible warp points.

{{clear left}}

==Development and release==
''Zool'' was marketed as a rival to [[Sega]]'s ''[[Sonic the Hedgehog (character)|Sonic the Hedgehog]]''. George Allan came with the idea of ''Zool'' as he was criticized on his previous game ''[[Switchblade II]]'' for having a lack of enemies. In development, Zool could cast spells to get him out of trouble by collecting potions. For example, Zool could escape from pits with high jump spells and cast a shadow spell to make a clone of him that follows his actions (thus doubling the fire power). In the final version, the spells were replaced with collectible power-ups. The very early name for the project was ''Pootz''.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://amr.abime.net/review_28495 |title=Zool preview from CU Amiga (Mar 1992) - Amiga Magazine Rack |publisher=Amr.abime.net |access-date=2015-05-28}}</ref> The soundtrack by [[Patrick Phelan (composer)|Patrick Phelan]] overlaps with the ''[[Lotus (video game series)|Lotus 3]]'' soundtrack and inspired several modern electro/techno remixes. The game was heavily hyped upon its initial release, including being bundled with the then-newly launched [[Amiga 1200]], although not the [[Advanced Graphics Architecture|AGA]] version with enhanced graphics which followed later. In 2000, the Amiga version of ''Zool'' was re-released as part of ''The Best of Gremlin'' compilation.

''Zool'' was also ported to the [[Atari ST]], [[Game Boy]], [[Sega Genesis|Sega Mega Drive/Genesis]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System|SNES]], [[Sega Master System|Master System]], [[Sega Game Gear]], [[Amiga CD32]], [[IBM PC Compatible|PC]], and [[RISC OS]] platform, as well as an arcade machine.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.gamespot.com/zool-ninja-of-the-nth-dimension/ |title=Zool: Ninja of the 'Nth' Dimension |publisher=GameSpot.com |access-date=2015-05-28}}</ref> The Amiga CD32 version has original [[Red Book (CD standard)|red book]] audio tracks by Neil Biggin and has the option to have both sound effects and music. This and the Acorn Archimedes port are the only two incarnations of the original Amiga version to have this. Most computer ports are close to the Amiga original but the Genesis and SNES ports both feature different levels which are structured differently, different background graphics, and unique bosses. The Sega Master System version features smaller, more scaled down stages and a more strict quota on collectible items, but also features unique gameplay moves like a wall climb. With the exception of the CD32 version, all console versions feature the soundtrack of the Amiga original, remixed appropriately for each console's unique sound systems.

Two young adult novels based on the games, entitled ''Cool Zool'' and ''Zool Rules'', were released in February 1995. They were written by [[Stan Nicholls]] and [[Ian Edginton]] and published by Boxtree.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.knibbworld.com/nicholls17/biblio.html |title=Stan Nicholls |publisher=Knibbworld.com |access-date=2015-05-28}}</ref> ''The Game Maker's Companion'' (APress, 2010), a book on hobbyist game development, contains step-by-step instructions on how to remake the original ''Zool'' game using [[GameMaker Studio]].<ref>[http://apress.com/book/view/9781430228264] {{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110306192338/http://apress.com/book/view/9781430228264 |date=March 6, 2011 }}</ref>

==Remaster==
''Zool Redimensioned'', a remaster of the game, was announced and released in August 2021. It was developed by Sumo Digital Academy and published by publisher Secret Mode on the [[Steam (service)|Steam]] platform.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.gematsu.com/2021/08/zool-redimensioned-announced-for-pc|title=Zool Redimensioned announced for PC|last=Romano|first=Sal|date=4 August 2021|publisher=Gematsu|accessdate=August 4, 2021}}</ref> The game was based on the Mega Drive version, which was included as a bonus.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.thesixthaxis.com/2021/08/04/zool-redimensioned-pc-steam-release-date/|title=16-bit icon Zool returns in Zool Redimensioned, out this month|date=4 August 2021}}</ref> Due to legal reasons, the [[Chupa Chups]] brand and logo that have been heavily featured in the Zool series as part of their sponsorship, featured in the opening title and the first level "Sweet World" have been removed due to the brand no longer being associated with the series.

== Reception ==
{{Video game reviews
|GB = true
|SMD = true
|EGM_SMD = 5.8/10{{efn|In ''Electronic Gaming Monthly''{{'}}s review of the Genesis, version, two critics scored it 5/10, two 6/10, one 7/10.<ref name = "EGMSMD">{{cite magazine|last1=Semrad|first1=Ed|last2=Carpenter|first2=Danyon|last3=Manuel|first3=Al|author4=Sushi-X|last5=Weigand|first5=Mike|date=January 1994|url=https://archive.org/details/Electronic_Gaming_Monthly_54/page/n39/mode/2up|title=Review Crew|magazine=[[Electronic Gaming Monthly]]|volume=7|number=1|pages=38–52}}</ref>}}
|GameZone_GB = 57/100<ref>{{cite magazine|last=Webb|first=Trenton|date=December 1993|url=https://archive.org/details/nintendo-game-zone-14/page/n33/mode/2up|title=Zool|magazine=GameZone|issue=14|pages=34–35|accessdate=March 9, 2021}}</ref>
}}
The original Amiga game was released to critical acclaim,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://amr.abime.net/amr_search.php?search=zool&mag_id=0&action=Find |title=Amiga magazines - Amiga Magazine Rack |publisher=Amr.abime.net |access-date=2015-05-28}}</ref>
receiving scores of 97%, 96%, 95% from ''[[Amiga Computing]]'', ''[[Amiga Action]]'' and ''[[Amiga Format]]'' respectively. ''[[Electronic Gaming Monthly]]'' claimed, "''Zool'' sports great graphics, but ends up with a case of Super Trolland's disease: your character moves much too fast and with little control!"<ref name = "EGMSMD"/> ''[[GamePro]]'' gave a positive review of the Game Gear version, praising its "great graphics and sound abound", as well as its "crisp" gameplay.<ref>{{cite journal|date=May 1994|title=Zool|url=https://archive.org/details/GamePro_Issue_058_May_1994/page/n131/mode/2up|journal=[[GamePro]]|publisher=[[International Data Group|IDG]]|issue=58|page=130}}</ref>

Retrospectively, [[Virgin Media]] included ''Zool'' on their list of top ten video game ninja heroes.<ref>{{cite web|title=Zool (Zool) - Top ten ninjas - Pictures - Games|url=http://www.virginmedia.com/games/inpictures/top-ten-ninjas.php?ssid=1|url-status=dead|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150123053734/http://www.virginmedia.com/games/inpictures/top-ten-ninjas.php?ssid=1|archive-date=January 23, 2015|access-date=2015-05-28|publisher=Virginmedia.com}}</ref> In 2011, [[Wirtualna Polska]] ranked it as the 22nd best game for the Amiga, noting its "absurdly" high difficulty.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://gry.wp.pl/galeria/30-najlepszych-gier-na-amige,179431/10.html |title=22. Zool - 30 najlepszych gier na Amigę |date=9 February 2015 |publisher=Gry.wp.pl |access-date=2015-05-28}}</ref>

== Notes ==
{{noteslist}}

==References==
{{Reflist}}

==External links==
*{{MobyGames|id=/Zool}}
*[http://hol.abime.net/1633 Zool: Ninja Of The ''Nth'' Dimension Amiga – HOL database]
*{{Internet Archive game|msdos_Zool_1993}}

[[Category:1992 video games]]
[[Category:Acorn Archimedes games]]
[[Category:Amiga games]]
[[Category:Amiga 1200 games]]
[[Category:Arcade video games]]
[[Category:Atari ST games]]
[[Category:Amiga CD32 games]]
[[Category:DOS games]]
[[Category:Game Boy games]]
[[Category:GameTek games]]
[[Category:Game Gear games]]
[[Category:Gremlin Interactive games]]
[[Category:Video games about ninja]]
[[Category:Side-scrolling platform games]]
[[Category:Single-player video games]]
[[Category:Master System games]]
[[Category:Sega Genesis games]]
[[Category:Super Nintendo Entertainment System games]]
[[Category:Video games scored by Patrick Phelan]]
[[Category:Video games developed in the United Kingdom]]

User talk:82.219.7.157

2022-05-06T17:10:00Z

HelixxUnderscore: Notification: speedy deletion nomination of :Draft:Mushus.

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