https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Ilber8000 Wikipedia - User contributions [en] 2024-10-25T05:33:01Z User contributions MediaWiki 1.43.0-wmf.28 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetics_and_archaeogenetics_of_South_Asia&diff=1012695004 Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia 2021-03-17T20:06:45Z <p>Ilber8000: Grammar</p> <hr /> <div>{{EngvarB|date=November 2019}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=March 2020}}<br /> '''Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia''' is the study of the [[genetics]] and [[archaeogenetics]] of the [[ethnic groups of South Asia]]. It aims at uncovering these groups' [[genetic history]]. The geographic position of South Asia makes its biodiversity important for the study of the early dispersal of [[anatomically modern human]]s across [[Asia]].<br /> <br /> Studies based on Mitochondrial DNA ([[mtDNA]]) variations have reported genetic unity across various South Asian sub–populations, showing that most of the ancestral nodes of the phylogenetic tree of all the mtDNA types originated in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt; Conclusions of studies based on Y Chromosome variation and Autosomal DNA variation have been varied. Recent genome studies appear to show that most South Asians are descendants of two major ancestral components, one restricted to South Asia (''Ancestral South Indian'', derived from West-Eurasian[[Indus Valley Civilisation|IVC]]-people and a distinctive native South Asian population, which was distantly related to the Andamanese and East Asians), and the other component (''Ancestral North Indian,'' derived from West-Eurasian IVC-people and [[Pontic steppe|Pontic Steppe-pastoralists]], making them closely related to those in [[Central Asia]], [[West Asia]] and [[Europe]].&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Moorjani2013 /&gt;{{sfn|Silva et al.|2017}} Basu et al. (2016) identified two more ancestral components in mainland India, denoted as ''AAA'' and ''ATB'', that are major for the Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribals and the Tibeto-Burman speakers respectively. The study also infers that the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which &quot;was found to be coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations&quot; and distant from contemporary South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2016&quot;/&gt; Yelmen et al. 2019 concluded that the AASI (Ancient Ancestral South Indians) form their own ancestral clade, best represented by the indigenous tribes, such as the [[Irula people]] and [[Paniya people]].&lt;ref name=&quot;auto&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Yelmen|first1=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=1 August 2019|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt; The East Asian ancestry component detected in India is mainly restricted to specific populations in the [[Himalayan foothills]] and [[Northeast India]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |last2=Kadian |first2=Anurag |last3=Bala |first3=Saroj |last4=Rao |first4=Vadlamudi Raghavendra |url=https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0127655|s2cid=848806 |title=Genetic Affinity of the Bhil, Kol and Gond Mentioned in Epic Ramayana |journal=PLOS ONE |date=10 June 2015 |volume=10 |issue=6 |pages=e0127655 |doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0127655 |pmid=26061398 |pmc=4465503 |bibcode=2015PLoSO..1027655C |language=en |issn=1932-6203}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> It has been found that the ancestral node of the phylogenetic tree of all the [[mtDNA]] types ([[mitochondrial DNA haplogroup]]s) typically found in Central Asia, the West Asia and Europe are also to be found in South Asia at relatively high frequencies. The inferred divergence of this common ancestral node is estimated to have occurred slightly less than 50,000 years ago, supporting an &quot;Out-of-India&quot; event for West-Eurasian populations such as Europeans, during the early Paleolithic.&lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a /&gt; In India, the major maternal lineages are various [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]] subclades, followed by [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] sublineages. These mitochondrial haplogroups' coalescence times have been approximated to date to 50,000 BP.&lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a /&gt;<br /> <br /> The major paternal lineages of Indians, represented by [[Y chromosome]]s, are haplogroups [[Haplogroup R1a1|R1a1]], [[Haplogroup R2|R2]], [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|H]], [[Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)|L]] and [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]], all common in modern day West-Eurasians, such as Middle Easterners and Europeans. The ancestral lineages are suggested to have diverged within South Asia and than spreaded to Europe and northern Africa respectively.&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt; Some researchers have argued that Y-DNA Haplogroup R1a1 (M17) is of [[autochthon (person)|autochthonous]] South Asian origin.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; However, proposals for a Central Asian origin for R1a1 are also quite common.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> == Overview ==<br /> All the mtDNA and Y-chromosome lineages outside Africa descend from three founder lineages:<br /> * [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N]] and [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] haplogroups for mtDNA and<br /> * [[Haplogroup C (Y-DNA)|C]], [[Haplogroup D (Y-DNA)|D]] and [[Haplogroup F* (Y-DNA)|F]] haplogroups for the Y-chromosome.<br /> All these six founder haplogroups can be found in the present day populations of [[South Asia]]. Moreover, the mtDNA haplogroup M and the Y-chromosome haplogroups C and D are restricted to the area ''east'' of South Asia. All the West [[Eurasian]] populations derive from the N and R haplogroups of mtDNA and the F haplogroup of the Y-chromosome.{{sfn|Endicott|Metspalu|Kivisild|2007|p=231}}<br /> <br /> Endicott et al. state that these facts are consistent with the hypothesis of a single exodus from East Africa 65,000 years ago via a [[Recent African origin of modern humans#Movement out of Africa|southern coastal route]], with the West Eurasian lineages separating from the South Asian lineages somewhere between East/Northeast Africa and South Asia.{{sfn|Endicott|Metspalu|Kivisild|2007|pp=234–235}}<br /> <br /> The predominant majority genome markers of South Asians are all closely related to [[West Eurasians]] and may have either originated in [[Western Asia]] or [[South Asia]] itself.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Das |first1=Ranajit |last2=Upadhyai |first2=Priyanka |s2cid=88966532 |title=Tracing the biogeographical origin of South Asian populations using DNA SatNav |journal=bioRxiv |date=25 November 2016 |pages=089466 |doi=10.1101/089466 |quote=Our hypothesis is supported by archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidences that suggest that there were two prominent waves of immigrations to India. A majority of the Early Caucasoids were proto-Dravidian language speakers that migrated to India putatively ~ 6000 YBP.}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Full genome analyses in 2020 reveals that the Indian people (majority of the South Asian ethnic groups) are closely related to various West-Eurasian populations, such as Europeans and Middle Easterners. Some forest tribes however have rather diverse ancestry and are shifted towards non-West-Eurasian groups.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|date=2020-12-01|title=The Y-chromosome of the Soliga, an ancient forest-dwelling tribe of South India|url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590158319300233|journal=Gene: X|language=en|volume=5|pages=100026|doi=10.1016/j.gene.2019.100026|issn=2590-1583}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == mtDNA ==<br /> {{See also|Recent single origin hypothesis}}<br /> [[File:Peopling of eurasia.jpg|thumb|300px|Hypothesized map of human migration into [[South Asia]] based on [[mitochondrial DNA]] and possible dispersal routes.]]<br /> The most frequent [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|mtDNA haplogroups]] in South Asia are [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] (where U is a descendant of R).&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt;<br /> <br /> Arguing for the longer term &quot;rival Y-Chromosome model&quot;,&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt; [[Stephen Oppenheimer]] believes that it is highly suggestive that India is the origin of the [[Eurasia]]n [[mtDNA]] haplogroups which he calls the &quot;Eurasian Eves&quot;. According to Oppenheimer it is highly probable that nearly all human maternal lineages in Central Asia, the Middle East and Europe descended from only four mtDNA lines that originated in South Asia 50,000–100,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Oppenheimer|2003}}{{page needed|date=December 2013}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Macrohaplogroup M ===<br /> The [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup M]], which is considered as a cluster of the proto-Asian maternal lineages,&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt; represents more than 60% of South Asian MtDNA.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> The M macrohaplotype in India includes many subgroups that differ profoundly from other sublineages in East Asia especially Mongoloid populations.&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt; The deep roots of M phylogeny clearly ascertain the relic of South Asian lineages as compared to other M sub lineages (in East Asia and elsewhere) suggesting 'in-situ' origin of these sub-haplogroups in South Asia, most likely in India. These deep rooting lineages are not language specific and spread over all the language groups in India.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Virtually all modern Central Asian MtDNA M lineages seem to belong to the Eastern Eurasian ([[Mongoloid|Mongolian]]) rather than the South Asian subtypes of haplogroup M, which indicates that no large-scale migration from the present [[Turkic languages|Turkic]]-speaking populations of Central Asia occurred to India. The absence of haplogroup M in Europeans, compared to its equally high frequency among South Asians, East Asians and in some Central Asian populations contrasts with the Western Eurasian leanings of South Asian paternal lineages.&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt;<br /> <br /> Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans.&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Important Sub clades || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! M2<br /> || M2a, M2b || Throughout the continent with low presence in Northwest &lt;br /&gt; Peaking in Bangladesh, Andhra Pradesh, coastal Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka<br /> |-<br /> ! M3<br /> || M3a || Concentrated into northwestern India &lt;br /&gt; Highest amongst the Parsees of Mumbai<br /> |-<br /> ! M4<br /> || M4a || Peaks in Pakistan, Kashmir and Andhra Pradesh<br /> |-<br /> ! M6<br /> || M6a, M6b || Kashmir and near the coasts of the Bay of Bengal, Sri Lanka<br /> |-<br /> ! M18<br /> || || Throughout South Asia&lt;br /&gt; Peaking at Rajasthan and Andhra Pradesh<br /> |-<br /> ! M25<br /> || || Moderately frequent in Kerala and Maharashtra but rather infrequent elsewhere in India<br /> |}<br /> <br /> === Macrohaplogroup R ===<br /> <br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | width = 130<br /> | image1=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-2.jpg<br /> | image2=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-1.jpg<br /> | image3=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-3.jpg<br /> | footer = The spatial distribution of [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] mtDNA haplogroups and their sub-haplogroups in South Asia. <br /> }}<br /> <br /> The [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup R]] (a very large and old subdivision of [[Haplogroup N (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup N]]) is also widely represented and accounts for the other 40% of South Asian MtDNA. A very old and most important subdivision of it is [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|haplogroup U]] that, while also present in [[West Eurasia]], has several subclades specific to South Asia.<br /> <br /> Most important South Asian haplogroups within R:&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! R2<br /> || Distributed widely across the sub continent<br /> |-<br /> ! R5<br /> || widely distributed by most of India. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks in coastal SW India<br /> |-<br /> ! R6<br /> || widespread at low rates across India. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks among Tamils and Kashmiris<br /> |-<br /> ! W<br /> || Found in northwestern states. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks in Gujarat, Punjab and Kashmir, frequency is low elsewhere.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> ==== Haplogroup U ====<br /> [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|Haplogroup U]] is a sub-haplogroup of macrohaplogroup R.&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt; The distribution of haplogroup U is a mirror image of that for haplogroup M: the former has not been described so far among eastern Asians but is frequent in European populations as well as among South Asians.&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999a /&gt; South Asian U lineages differ substantially from those in Europe and their coalescence to a common ancestor also dates back to about 50,000 years.&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! U2*<br /> || (a [[parahaplogroup]]) is sparsely distributed specially in the northern half of the South Asia.<br /> It is also found in SW Arabia.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2a<br /> || shows relatively high density in Pakistan and NW India but also in Karnataka, where it reaches its higher density.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2b<br /> || has highest concentration in Uttar Pradesh but is also found in many other places, specially in Kerala and Sri Lanka.<br /> It is also found in Oman.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2c<br /> || is specially important in Bangladesh and West Bengal.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2l<br /> || is maybe the most important numerically among U subclades in South Asia, reaching specially high concentrations (over 10%) in Uttar Pradesh, Sri Lanka, Sindh and parts of Karnataka. It also has some importance in Oman. [[mtDNA haplogroup U2i]] is dubbed &quot;Western Eurasian&quot; in Bamshad ''et al.'' study but &quot;Eastern Eurasian (mostly India specific)&quot; in Kivisild ''et al.'' study.<br /> |-<br /> ! U7<br /> || this haplogroup has a significant presence in Gujarat, Punjab and Pakistan. The possible homeland of this haplogroup spans Gujarat (highest frequency, 12%) and Iran because from there its frequency declines steeply both to the east and to the west.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> == Y chromosome ==<br /> [[File:Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG|thumb|350px|The diversion of [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants.]]<br /> '''{{details|topic=individual groups by Y-DNA|Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of South Asia}}'''<br /> The major South Asian Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups are [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|H]], [[Haplogroup J-M172|J2]], [[Haplogroup L-M20|L]], [[Haplogroup R1a1|R1a1]] and [[Haplogroup R2a|R2]], typically West-Eurasian haplogroups shared with Europeans and Middle Easterners.&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt; Their geographical origins are listed as follows, according to the latest scholarship:<br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; border=&quot;1&quot;<br /> !width=16%|Major South Asian Y-chromosomal lineages:<br /> !width=16%|H<br /> !width=16%|J2<br /> !width=16%|L<br /> !width=16%|R1a<br /> !width=16%|R2<br /> |- valign=top<br /> !Basu ''et al.'' (2003)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |Central Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Kivisild ''et al.'' (2003)<br /> |India<br /> |Western Asia<br /> |India<br /> |Southern and Western Asia<br /> |South-Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Cordaux ''et al.'' (2004)<br /> |India<br /> |West or Central Asia<br /> |Middle Eastern<br /> |Central Asia<br /> |South-Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Sengupta ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |India<br /> |The Middle East and Central Asia<br /> |South India<br /> |North India<br /> |North India<br /> |-<br /> !Thanseem ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |India<br /> |The Levant<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |Southern and Central Asia<br /> |Southern and Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Sahoo ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |South Asia<br /> |The Near East<br /> |South Asia<br /> |South or West Asia<br /> |South Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Mirabal ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |Northwestern India or Central Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Zhao ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |India<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |Central Asia or West Eurasia<br /> |Central Asia or West Eurasia<br /> |-<br /> !Sharma ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |South Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Thangaraj ''et al.'' (2010)<br /> |South Asia<br /> |The Near East<br /> |The Near East<br /> |South Asia<br /> |South Asia<br /> |}<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup H ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)}}<br /> <br /> [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)]] is found at a high frequency in South Asia. H is today rarely found outside of the South Asia but is common among the [[Romanis]], particularly the H-M82 subgroup. H was also quite common in ancient samples of Europe and is still found today at a low frequency in Europeans and Arabs of the [[Levant]]. Haplogroup H is frequently found among populations of [[India]], [[Sri Lanka]], [[Nepal]], [[Pakistan]] and the [[Maldives]]. All three branches of [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)]] are found in South Asia.<br /> <br /> It is a branch of [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and descends from [[Haplogroup GHIJK|GHIJK]] family. [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup H]] is believed to have arisen in South Asia between 30,000 and 40,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot; /&gt; Its probable site of introduction is South Asia, since it is concentrated there. It seems to represent the main Y-Chromosome haplogroup of the paleolithic inhabitants of South Asia and Europe respectively. Some individuals in South Asia have also been shown to belong to the much rarer subclade H3 (Z5857).&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot; /&gt; Haplogroup H is by no means restricted to specific populations. For example, H is possessed by about 28.8% of Indo-Aryan castes.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; and in tribals about 25–35%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup J2 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)}}<br /> Haplogroup J2 has been present in South Asia mostly as J2a-M410 and J2b-M102, since neolithic times (9500 YBP).&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Singh |first1=Sakshi |last2=Singh |first2=Ashish |last3=Rajkumar |first3=Raja |last4=Sampath Kumar |first4=Katakam |last5=Kadarkarai Samy |first5=Subburaj |last6=Nizamuddin |first6=Sheikh |last7=Singh |first7=Amita |last8=Ahmed Sheikh |first8=Shahnawaz |last9=Peddada |first9=Vidya |last10=Khanna |first10=Vinee |last11=Veeraiah |first11=Pandichelvam |last12=Pandit |first12=Aridaman |last13=Chaubey |first13=Gyaneshwer |last14=Singh |first14=Lalji |last15=Thangaraj |first15=Kumarasamy |title=Dissecting the influence of Neolithic demic diffusion on Indian Y-chromosome pool through J2-M172 haplogroup |journal=Scientific Reports |date=12 January 2016 |volume=6 |issue=1 |page=19157 |doi=10.1038/srep19157 |pmid=26754573 |pmc=4709632 |bibcode=2016NatSR...619157S |language=en |issn=2045-2322}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Herrera2018&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Herrera |first1=Rene J. |last2=Garcia-Bertrand |first2=Ralph |title=Ancestral DNA, Human Origins, and Migrations |date=2018 |publisher=Academic Press |isbn=978-0-12-804128-4 |page=250 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=ZF1gDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=Ancestral+DNA+Human+Origins+and+Migrations+J2b-M102+South+Asia&amp;pg=PA250 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt; J2 clades attain peak frequencies in the North-West and South India&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot; /&gt; and is found at 19% within South Indian castes, 11% in North Indian castes and 12% in Pakistan.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; In [[South India]], the presence of J2 is higher among middle castes at 21%, followed by upper castes at 18.6% and lower castes at 14%.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; Among caste groups, the highest frequency of J2-M172 is observed among Tamil [[Vellalar]]s of South India, at 38.7%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sengupta S, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Mehdi SQ, Edmonds CA, Chow CE, Lin AA, Mitra M, Sil SK, Ramesh A, Usha Rani MV, Thakur CM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Majumder PP, Underhill PA | display-authors = 6 | title = Polarity and temporality of high-resolution y-chromosome distributions in India identify both indigenous and exogenous expansions and reveal minor genetic influence of Central Asian pastoralists | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 78 | issue = 2 | pages = 202–21 | date = February 2006 | pmid = 16400607 | pmc = 1380230 | doi = 10.1086/499411 }}&lt;/ref&gt; J2 is present in tribals too&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot; /&gt; and has a frequency of 11% in Austro-Asiatic tribals. Among the Austro-Asiatic tribals, the predominant [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]] occurs in the Lodha (35%).&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; J2 is also present in the South Indian [[hill tribe]] [[Toda people|Toda]] at 38.46%,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Soria-Hernanz DF, Kavitha VJ, Arun VS, Syama A, Ashokan KS, Gandhirajan KT, Vijayakumar K, Narayanan M, Jayalakshmi M, Ziegle JS, Royyuru AK, Parida L, Wells RS, Renfrew C, Schurr TG, Smith CT, Platt DE, Pitchappan R | display-authors = 6 | title = Population differentiation of southern Indian male lineages correlates with agricultural expansions predating the caste system | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 7 | issue = 11 | pages = e50269 | year = 2012 | pmid = 23209694 | pmc = 3508930 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0050269 | bibcode = 2012PLoSO...750269A }}&lt;/ref&gt; in the [[Andh|Andh tribe]] of [[Telangana]] at 35.19%&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt; and in the [[Kol people|Kol tribe]] of [[Uttar Pradesh]] at a frequency of 33.34%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sharma2009&quot;/&gt; Haplogroup J-P209 was found to be more common in India's [[Shia Muslim]]s, of which 28.7% belong to haplogroup J, with 13.7% in J-M410, 10.6% in J-M267 and 4.4% in J2b {{harv|Eaaswarkhanth|2009}}.<br /> <br /> In [[Pakistan]], the highest frequencies of J2-M172 were observed among the [[Parsi]]s at 38.89%, the [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speaking [[Brahui people|Brahuis]] at 28.18% and the Makrani [[Baloch people|Balochs]] at 24%.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Qamar R, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Helgason A, Mazhar K, Mansoor A, Zerjal T, Tyler-Smith C, Mehdi SQ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 5 | pages = 1107–24 | date = May 2002 | pmid = 11898125 | pmc = 447589 | doi = 10.1086/339929 }}&lt;/ref&gt; It also occurs at 18.18% in [[Siddi|Makrani Siddis]] and at 3% in [[Siddis of Karnataka|Karnataka Siddis]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shah AM, Tamang R, Moorjani P, Rani DS, Govindaraj P, Kulkarni G, Bhattacharya T, Mustak MS, Bhaskar LV, Reddy AG, Gadhvi D, Gai PB, Chaubey G, Patterson N, Reich D, Tyler-Smith C, Singh L, Thangaraj K | display-authors = 6 | title = Indian Siddis: African descendants with Indian admixture | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 1 | pages = 154–61 | date = July 2011 | pmid = 21741027 | pmc = 3135801 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.05.030 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> J2-M172 is found at an overall frequency of 10.3% among the [[Sinhalese people]] of [[Sri Lanka]].&lt;ref name=kivisild2003/&gt; In [[Maldives]], 20.6% of Maldivian population were found to be haplogroup J2 positive.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pijpe |first1=Jeroen |last2=de Voogt |first2=Alex |last3=van Oven |first3=Mannis |last4=Henneman |first4=Peter |last5=van der Gaag |first5=Kristiaan J. |last6=Kayser |first6=Manfred |last7=de Knijff |first7=Peter |title=Indian ocean crossroads: Human genetic origin and population structure in the maldives |journal=American Journal of Physical Anthropology |date=21 March 2013 |volume=151 |issue=1 |pages=58–67 |doi=10.1002/ajpa.22256 |pmid=23526367 |pmc=3652038 |language=en |issn=0002-9483}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup L ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)}}<br /> According to Dr. [[Spencer Wells]], L-M20 originated in the [[Pamir Knot]] region in [[Tajikistan]] and migrated into [[Pakistan]] and [[India]] ca. 30,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last1=Wells|first1=Spencer|title=Deep ancestry : inside the Genographic project|date=2007|publisher=National Geographic|location=Washington, D.C.|isbn=978-1426201189}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;David G 2017&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Spencer Wells (2003), ''The Journey of Man. A Genetic Odyssey''. New Delhi: Penguin Books India, p. 167&lt;/ref&gt; However, most other studies have proposed a [[West Asia]]n origin for L-M20 and associated its expansion in the [[Indus valley]] (~7,000 YBP) to [[neolithic]] farmers.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao Z, Khan F, Borkar M, Herrera R, Agrawal S | title = Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: a study of 560 Y chromosomes | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 36 | issue = 1 | pages = 46–59 | date = 2009 | pmid = 19058044 | pmc = 2755252 | doi = 10.1080/03014460802558522 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Aunger R, Bentley G, Nasidze I, Sirajuddin SM, Stoneking M | s2cid = 5721248 | title = Independent origins of Indian caste and tribal paternal lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 14 | issue = 3 | pages = 231–5 | date = February 2004 | pmid = 14761656 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2004.01.024 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McElreavey K, Quintana-Murci L | s2cid = 109014 | title = A population genetics perspective of the Indus Valley through uniparentally-inherited markers | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 32 | issue = 2 | pages = 154–62 | date = 2005 | pmid = 16096211 | doi = 10.1080/03014460500076223 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thangaraj K, Naidu BP, Crivellaro F, Tamang R, Upadhyay S, Sharma VK, Reddy AG, Walimbe SR, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = The influence of natural barriers in shaping the genetic structure of Maharashtra populations | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 5 | issue = 12 | pages = e15283 | date = December 2010 | pmid = 21187967 | pmc = 3004917 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0015283 | bibcode = 2010PLoSO...515283T }}&lt;/ref&gt; There are three subbranches of haplogroup L: L1-M76 (L1a1), L2-M317 (L1b) and L3-M357 (L1a2), found at varying levels in South Asia.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> [[Haplogroup L-M20|Haplogroup L]] shows time of neolithic expansion.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2010 /&gt; The clade is present in the Indian population at an overall frequency of ca. 7–15%.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Basu2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; [[Haplogroup L-M20|Haplogroup L]] has higher frequency among south Indian castes (ca. 17–19%) and reaches up to 68% in some castes in [[Karnataka]] but is somewhat rarer in north Indian castes (ca. 5–6%).&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; The presence of haplogroup L is quite rare among tribal groups (ca. 5,6–7%),&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; however a moderate, 14.6% has been observed among the [[Chenchu]]s.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Among regional and social groups, moderate to high frequencies have been observed in Konkanastha Brahmins (18.6%), Punjabis (12.1%), Gujaratis (10.4%), [[Lambadis]] (17.1%), [[Jats]] (36.8%)&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;David G 2017&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mahal DG, Matsoukas IG | title = Y-STR Haplogroup Diversity in the Jat Population Reveals Several Different Ancient Origins | journal = Frontiers in Genetics | volume = 8 | pages = 121 | date = 20 September 2017 | pmid = 28979290 | pmc = 5611447 | doi = 10.3389/fgene.2017.00121 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> In Pakistan, L1-M76 and L3-M357 subclades of L-M20 reaches overall frequencies of 5.1% and 6.8%, respectively.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;<br /> Haplogroup L3 (M357) is found frequently among [[Burusho people|Burusho]] (approx. 12%&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;) and [[Pashtun people|Pashtuns]] (approx. 7%&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;). Its highest frequency can be found in south western [[Balochistan (Pakistan)|Balochistan]] province along the [[Makran]] coast (28%) to [[Indus River]] delta. L3a (PK3) is found in approximately 23% of [[Nuristani people|Nuristani]] in northwest [[Pakistan]].&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;<br /> <br /> The clade is present in moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population (14% approx).{{sfn|Qamar|2002}}{{sfn|Mcelreavey|2005}}<br /> <br /> ====Sri Lanka====<br /> In one study, 16% of the Sinhalese were found to be Haplogroup L-M20 positive.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003a/&gt; In another study 18% were found to belong to L1.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup R1a1 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup R1a1a}}<br /> In South Asia, R1a1 has been observed often with high frequency in a number of demographic groups,&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot;&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Sengupta et al.|2005}}{{full|date=May 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; as well as with highest [[Microsatellite|STR]] diversity which lead some to see it as the locus of origin.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Mirabal2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> While R1a originated ca. 22,000&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt; to 25,000{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} years ago, its subclade M417 (R1a1a1) diversified ca. 5,800 years ago.{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} The distribution of M417-subclades R1-Z282 (including R1-Z280){{sfn|Pamjav|2012}} in Central- and Eastern Europe and R1-Z93 in Asia{{sfn|Pamjav|2012}}{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} suggests that R1a1a diversified within the [[Eurasian Steppe]]s or the [[Middle East]] and [[Caucasus]] region.{{sfn|Pamjav|2012}} The place of origin of these subclades plays a role in the debate about the origins of [[Indo-European languages|Indo-Europeans]].<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> <br /> In [[India]], high percentage of this haplogroup is observed in [[Bengali Brahmins|West Bengal Brahmins]] (72%)&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot; /&gt; to the east, [[Lohana|Gujarat Lohanas]] (60%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; to the west, [[Khatri]]s (67%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; in north, [[Iyengar|Iyengar Brahmins]] (31%) in the south.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot; /&gt; It has also been found in several [[South Indian]] [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]]-speaking [[Adivasi|tribals]] including the Kotas (41%) of Tamil Nadu{{sfn|ArunkumarG|2012}} [[Chenchu]] (26%) and Valmikis of [[Andhra Pradesh]]&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt; as well as the [[Yadav]] and [[Kallar(caste)|Kallar]] of [[Tamil Nadu]] suggesting that M17 is widespread in these Southern Indians tribes.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Kivisild|2003}}&lt;/ref&gt; Besides these, studies show high percentages in regionally diverse groups such as [[Meitei people|Manipuris]] (50%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; to the extreme North East and in among [[Punjabis]] (47%)&lt;ref name=kivisild2003/&gt; to the extreme North West.<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> In Pakistan, it is found at 71% among the Mohanna of [[Sindh Province]] to the south and 46% among the [[Balti people|Baltis]] of [[Gilgit-Baltistan]] to the north.&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Sri Lanka ====<br /> 23% of the [[Sinhalese people]] out of a sample of 87 subjects were found to be R1a1a (R-SRY1532) positive according to a 2003 research.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003a&gt;{{Cite book | last1 = Kivisild | first1 = Toomas | last2 = Rootsi |first2=Siiri |last3=Metspalu |first3=Mait |last4=Metspalu |first4=Ene |last5=Parik |first5=Juri |last6=Kaldma |first6=Katrin |last7=Usanga |first7=Esien |last8=Mastana |first8=Sarabjit |last9=Papiha |first9=Surinder S. |last10=Villems |first10=Richard | name-list-style = vanc | year = 2003 | chapter= The Genetics of Language and Farming Spread in India |editor=Bellwood P, Renfrew C |title=Examining the farming/language dispersal hypothesis | publisher = McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, Cambridge, United Kingdom | pages = 215–222 |chapter-url=http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2003a.pdf }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maldives ====<br /> In [[Maldives]], 23.8% of the [[Maldivian people]] were found to be R1a1a (M17) positive.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Nepal ====<br /> People in [[Terai]] Region, [[Nepal]] show R1a1a at 69%.&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Fornarino et al.|2009}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup R2 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)}}<br /> <br /> In South Asia, the frequency of [[Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA)|R2]] and [[Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)|R2a]] lineage is around 10–15% in India and [[Sri Lanka]] and 7–8% in Pakistan. At least 90% of R-M124 individuals are located in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Manoukian&quot; /&gt; It is also reported in [[Caucasus]] and [[Central Asia]] at lower frequency. A genetic study by Mondal et al. 2017 concluded that [[Haplogroup R2]] originated in northern India and was already present before the Steppe migration.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Mondal|first1=Mayukh|last2=Bergström|first2=Anders|last3=Xue|first3=Yali|last4=Calafell|first4=Francesc|last5=Laayouni|first5=Hafid|last6=Casals|first6=Ferran|last7=Majumder|first7=Partha P.|last8=Tyler-Smith|first8=Chris|last9=Bertranpetit|first9=Jaume|s2cid=3725426|date=1 May 2017|title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese|journal=Human Genetics|language=en|volume=136|issue=5|pages=499–510|doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0|pmid=28444560|issn=1432-1203|hdl=10230/34399|hdl-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> <br /> Among regional groups, it is found among [[West Bengal|West]] [[Bengalis]] (23%), [[New Delhi]] [[Hindu]]s (20%), [[Punjabis]] (5%) and [[Gujaratis]] (3%).&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt; Among tribal groups, Karmalis of [[West Bengal]] showed highest at 100%&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; followed by [[Lodha people|Lodhas]] (43%)&lt;ref name=Kumar2007 /&gt; to the east, while [[Bhil]] of [[Gujarat]] in the west were at 18%,&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt; [[Tharu people|Tharus]] of north showed it at 17%,&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt; [[Chenchu]] and [[Pallan]] of south were at 20% and 14% respectively.&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt; Among caste groups, high percentages are shown by [[Jaunpur district|Jaunpur]] [[Kshatriya]]s (87%), [[Kamma (caste)|kamma]] (73%), [[Bihar]] [[Yadav]] (50%), [[Khandayat]] (46%)and [[Kallar (caste)|Kallar]] (44%).&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> It is also significantly high in many [[Brahmin]] groups including [[Punjabi Brahmins]] (25%), [[Bengali Brahmins]] (22%), [[Konkanastha]] Brahmins (20%), [[Chaturvedi]]s (32%), [[Bhargava]]s (32%), [[Kashmiri Pandit]]s (14%) and [[Lingayat]] Brahmins (30%).&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> North Indian Muslims have a frequency of 19% ([[Sunni Islam|Sunni]]) and 13% ([[Shia islam|Shia]]),&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt; while [[Dawoodi Bohra|Dawoodi Bohra Muslim]] in the western state of Gujarat have a frequency of 16% and [[Mappila|Mappila Muslims]] of South India have a frequency of 5%.&lt;ref name=Eaaswarkhanth2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> The R2 haplogroup is found in 14% of the [[Burusho people]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Firasat2007&quot; /&gt; Among the [[Hunza people]] it is found at 18% while the [[Parsi]]s show it at 20%. It is also found in the northeastern part of [[Afghanistan]].{{citation needed|date=July 2016}}<br /> <br /> ==== Sri Lanka ====<br /> 38% of the [[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]] of Sri Lanka were found to be R2 positive according to a 2003 research.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maldives ====<br /> 12% of the [[Maldivian people]] of Maldives are found to have R2.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Nepal ====<br /> In Nepal, R2 percentages range from 2% to 26% within different groups under various studies. [[Newar]]s show a significantly high frequency of 26% while people of [[Kathmandu]] show it at 10%.<br /> <br /> == Reconstructing South Asian population history ==<br /> The {{harvtxt|Indian Genome Variation Consortium|2008}}, divides the population of South Asia into four ethnolinguistic (not genetic) groups: [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]], [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]], [[Tibeto-Burman languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and [[Austroasiatic languages|Austro-Asiatic]].&lt;ref&gt;<br /> {{Cite web |url=http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf |title=The Place of the Indian mtDNA Variants in the Global Network of Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World |access-date=28 September 2011 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120308154249/http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf |archive-date=8 March 2012 |url-status=live }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;<br /> {{cite web|url=http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=2-16|title=Ethnologue report for Indo-European|publisher=Ethnologue.com|access-date=24 November 2015|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20121015090404/http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=2-16|archive-date=15 October 2012|url-status=live}}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Baldi|first=Philip| name-list-style = vanc |author-link=Philip Baldi|title=Linguistic Change and Reconstruction Methodology|publisher=Walter de Gruyter|year=1990|isbn=978-3-11-011908-4|page=342}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfnp|Burling|2003|pp=174–178}}&lt;ref&gt;<br /> Bradley (2012) notes, ''MK in the wider sense including the Munda languages of eastern South Asia is also known as Austroasiatic.''[https://www.academia.edu/1542763/Languages_and_Language_Families_in_China Languages and Language Families in China] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170430061616/http://www.academia.edu/1542763/Languages_and_Language_Families_in_China |date=30 April 2017 }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; The molecular anthropology studies use three different type of markers: Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation which is maternally inherited and highly polymorphic, Y Chromosome variation which involves uniparental transmission along the male lines, and Autosomal DNA variation.&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt;{{rp|04}}<br /> <br /> === mtDNA variation ===<br /> Most of the studies based on mtDNA variation have reported genetic unity of South Asian populations across language, caste and tribal groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar&quot;&gt;<br /> {{cite book|last=Singh|first=Ashok Kumar| name-list-style = vanc |title=Science &amp; Technology For Upsc|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=CzV1MgFH6oMC&amp;pg=PA595|year=2007|publisher=Tata McGraw-Hill Education|isbn=978-0-07-065548-5|page=595|access-date=24 May 2016|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140103134039/http://books.google.com/books?id=CzV1MgFH6oMC&amp;pg=PA595|archive-date=3 January 2014|url-status=live}}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; It is likely that haplogroup M was brought to Asia from East Africa along the southern route by earliest migration wave 78,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to [[Toomas Kivisild|Kivisild]] et al. (1999), &quot;Minor overlaps with lineages described in other Eurasian populations clearly demonstrate that recent immigrations have had very little impact on the innate structure of the maternal [[gene pool]] of South Asians. Despite the variations found within India, these populations stem from a limited number of founder lineages. These lineages were most likely introduced to South Asia during the Middle Palaeolithic, before the peopling of Europe 48,000 years ago and perhaps the Old World in general.&quot;&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b /&gt; Basu et al. (2003) also emphasises underlying unity of female lineages in India.&lt;ref name=Basu2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Y Chromosome variation ===<br /> Conclusions based on Y Chromosome variation have been more varied than those based on mtDNA variation. While {{harvtxt|Kivisild et al.|2003}} proposes an ancient and shared genetic heritage of male lineages in South Asia, Bamshad et al. (2001) suggests an affinity between South Asian male lineages and west Eurasians proportionate to upper caste rank and places upper caste populations of southern Indian states closer to [[East Europeans]].&lt;ref name=Bamshad2001 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Basu et al. (2003) concludes that Austro–Asiatic tribal populations entered India first from the Northwest corridor and much later some of them through Northeastern corridor.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2003&quot; /&gt; Whereas, Kumar et al. (2007) analysed 25 South Asian Austro-Asiatic tribes and found strong paternal genetic link among the sub-linguistic groups of the South Asian Austro-Asiatic populations.&lt;ref name=Kumar2007 /&gt; Mukherjee et al. (2001) places Pakistanis and North Indians between west Asian and Central Asian populations,&lt;ref name=Mukherjee2001 /&gt; whereas Cordaux et al. (2004) argues that the Indian caste populations are closer to Central Asian populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot; /&gt; Sahoo et al. (2006) and Sengupta et al. (2006) suggest that Indian caste populations have not been subject to any recent admixtures.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; Sanghamitra Sahoo concludes his study with:&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> {{Quote|It is not necessary, based on the current evidence, to look beyond South Asia for the origins of the paternal heritage of the majority of Indians at the time of the onset of settled agriculture. The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through the northwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny. Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a, and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the South Asia are rejected, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H. Of the others, only J2 indicates an unambiguous recent external contribution, from West Asia rather than Central Asia. The current distributions of haplogroup frequencies are, with the exception of the lineages, predominantly driven by geographical, rather than cultural determinants. Ironically, it is in the northeast of India, among the TB groups that there is clear-cut evidence for large-scale demic diffusion traceable by genes, culture, and language, but apparently not by agriculture.}}<br /> <br /> Closest neighbor analysis done by Mondal et al. 2017 concluded that Indian Y-lineages are close to southern [[Europe]]an populations and the time of divergence between the two predated Steppe migration.&quot;:&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Mondal |first1=Mayukh |last2=Bergström |first2=Anders |last3=Xue |first3=Yali |last4=Calafell |first4=Francesc |last5=Laayouni |first5=Hafid |last6=Casals |first6=Ferran |last7=Majumder |first7=Partha P. |last8=Tyler-Smith |first8=Chris |last9=Bertranpetit |first9=Jaume |s2cid=3725426 |title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese |journal=Human Genetics |date=25 April 2017 |volume=136 |issue=5 |pages=499–510 |doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0 |pmid=28444560 |hdl=10230/34399 |hdl-access=free }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{Quote|text=These results suggest that the European-related ancestry in Indian populations might be much older and more complex than anticipated, and might originate from the first wave of agriculturists or even earlier|sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> === Autosomal DNA variation ===<br /> <br /> ====AASI-ANI-ASI====<br /> Results of studies based upon autosomal DNA variation have also been varied. In a major study (2009) using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers, Reich hypothesized that the modern South Asian population was the result of admixture between two genetically divergent ancestral populations dating from the post-Holocene era. These two &quot;reconstructed&quot; ancient populations he termed &quot;Ancestral South Indians&quot; (ASI) and &quot;Ancestral North Indians&quot; (ANI). According to Reich: &quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers, suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot; While the ANI is genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians and Europeans, the ASI is not closely related to groups outside of the subcontinent. As no &quot;ASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] [[Onge people|Onge]] are used as an (imperfect) proxy of ASI (according to Reich et al., the Andamanese, though distinct from them, are the closest living population to ASI). According to Reich et al., both ANI and ASI ancestry are found all over the subcontinent (in both northern and southern India) in varying proportions, and that &quot;ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich2009&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the ASI, though not closely related to any living group, are &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. however suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI, causing the modeled relationship. The study concluded that &quot;almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West-Eurasians in PCA (referred to as &quot;Indian cline&quot;)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2013 study by Chaubey using the single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP), shows that the genome of Andamanese people (Onge) is closer to those of other Oceanic Negrito groups than to that of South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|last1=Chaubey|first1=Gyaneshwer|last2=Endicott|first2=Phillip|date=June 2013|title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia|url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7|journal=Human Biology|volume=85|issue=1–3|pages=153–172|doi=10.3378/027.085.0307|pmid=24297224|s2cid=7774927}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. 2016, further analysis revealed that the genomic structure of mainland Indian populations is best explained by contributions from four ancestral components. In addition to the ANI and ASI, Basu et. al (2016) identified two East Asian ancestral components in mainland India that are major for the Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribals and the Tibeto-Burman speakers, which they denoted as AAA (for &quot;Ancestral Austro-Asiatic&quot;) and ATB (for &quot;Ancestral Tibeto-Burman&quot;) respectively. The study also infers that the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which &quot;was found to be coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations&quot; but more distant from South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The cline of admixture between the ANI and ASI lineages is dated to the period of c. 4.2–1.9 kya by Moorjani et al. (2013), corresponding to the Indian Bronze Age, and associated by the authors with the process of deurbanisation of the [[Indus Valley Civilization]] and the population shift to the Gangetic system in the incipient Indian Iron Age.&lt;ref name=&quot;Moorjani2013&quot; /&gt; Basu et al. (2003) suggests that &quot;Dravidian speakers were possibly widespread throughout India before the arrival of the Indo-European-speaking nomads&quot; and that &quot;formation of populations by fission that resulted in founder and drift effects have left their imprints on the genetic structures of contemporary populations&quot;.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2003&quot; /&gt; The geneticist PP Majumder (2010) has recently argued that the findings of Reich et al. (2009) are in remarkable concordance with previous research using mtDNA and Y-DNA:&lt;ref name=&quot;Majumder2010&quot; /&gt;<br /> {{Quote|Central Asian populations are supposed to have been major contributors to the Indian gene pool, particularly to the northern Indian gene pool, and the migrants had supposedly moved into India through what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan. Using [[mitochondrial DNA]] variation data collated from various studies, we have shown that populations of Central Asia and Pakistan show the lowest coefficient of genetic differentiation with the north Indian populations, a higher differentiation with the south Indian populations, and the highest with the northeast Indian populations. Northern Indian populations are genetically closer to Central Asians than populations of other geographical regions of India... . Consistent with the above findings, a recent study using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers has found a north to south gradient of genetic proximity of Indian populations to western Eurasians. This feature is likely related to the proportions of ancestry derived from the western Eurasian gene pool, which, as this study has shown, is greater in populations inhabiting northern India than those inhabiting southern India.}}<br /> <br /> Chaubey et al. 2015 detected a distinctive East Asian ancestral component, mainly restricted to specific populations in the foothills of Himalaya and northeastern part of India. Highest frequency of the component is observed among the Tibeto-Burmese speaking groups of northeast India and was also detected in Andamanese populations at 32%, with substantial presence also among Austroasiatic speakers. It is found to be largely absent in Indo-European and Dravidian speakers, except in some specific ethnic groups living in the Himalayan foothills and central-south India.&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |title=East Asian ancestry in India |date=January 2015 |journal=Indian Journal of Physical Anthropology and Human Genetics |volume=34 |issue=2 |pages=193–199 |url=https://serialsjournals.com/abstract/78963_2.pdf |quote=Here the analysis of genome wide data on Indian and East/Southeast Asian demonstrated their restricted distinctive ancestry in India mainly running along the foothills of Himalaya and northeastern part.}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;/ref&gt; The researchers however suggested that the East Asian ancestry (represented by the Han) measured in the studied Andamanese groups may actually reflect the capture of the affinity of the Andamanese with Melanesians and Malaysian Negritos (rather than true East Asian admixture),&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt; as a previous study by Chaubey et al. suggested &quot;a deep common ancestry&quot; between Andamanese, Melanesians and other Negrito groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt; and an affinity between Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians (as well as the Andamanese) with East Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |last2=Endicott |first2=Phillip |title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia |journal=Human Biology |date=June 2013 |volume=85 |issue=1–3 |pages=153–172 |doi=10.3378/027.085.0307 |pmid=24297224 |s2cid=7774927 |url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes &quot;The demographic impact of steppe related populations on South Asia was substantial, as the [[Mala (caste)|Mala]], a south Indian [[Dalit]] population with minimal Ancestral North Indian (ANI) ancestry still have ~ 18% [[steppe-related ancestry|steppe-related Yamnaya ancestry]], while the [[Kalash people|Kalash]] of Pakistan are inferred to have ~ 50% steppe-related Yamnaya ancestry, one of the highest percentage next to eastern Europeans at 51%.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Citation error. See inline comment how to fix. {{verify source |date=September 2019 |reason=This ref was deleted Special:Diff/909570260 by a bug in VisualEditor and later identified by a bot. The original cite can be found at Special:Permalink/909439483 (or in a rev close to it) in either cite #44 or cite #38 - find and verify the cite and replace this template with it (1). [[User:GreenC bot/Job 18]]}}&lt;/ref&gt; Lazaridis et al.'s 2016 study estimated (6.5–50.2%) steppe related admixture in South Asians. Lazaridis et al. further notes that &quot;A useful direction of future research is a more comprehensive sampling of ancient DNA from steppe populations, as well as populations of central Asia (east of Iran and south of the steppe), which may reveal more proximate sources of the ANI than the ones considered here, and of South Asia to determine the trajectory of population change in the area directly.<br /> <br /> Pathak et al. 2018 concluded that the [[Indo-European language|Indo-European]] speakers of [[Gangetic Plains]] and the [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speakers have significant [[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya Early-Middle Bronze Age]] (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry but no Middle-Late Bronze Age Steppe (Steppe_MLBA) ancestry. On the other hand, the &quot;North-Western Indian and Pakistani&quot; populations (PNWI) showed significant Steppe_MLBA ancestry along with Yamnaya (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry. The study also noted that ancient South Asian samples had significantly higher Steppe_MLBA than Steppe_EMBA (or Yamnaya). The study also suggested that the [[Ror]]s could be used as a proxy for the ANI.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pathak |first1=Ajai K. |last2=Kadian |first2=Anurag |last3=Kushniarevich |first3=Alena |last4=Montinaro |first4=Francesco |last5=Mondal |first5=Mayukh |last6=Ongaro |first6=Linda |last7=Singh |first7=Manvendra |last8=Kumar |first8=Pramod |last9=Rai |first9=Niraj |last10=Parik |first10=Jüri |last11=Metspalu |first11=Ene |last12=Rootsi |first12=Siiri |last13=Pagani |first13=Luca |last14=Kivisild |first14=Toomas |last15=Metspalu |first15=Mait |last16=Chaubey |first16=Gyaneshwer |last17=Villems |first17=Richard |title=The Genetic Ancestry of Modern Indus Valley Populations from Northwest India |journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics |date=December 2018 |volume=103 |issue=6 |pages=918–929 |doi=10.1016/j.ajhg.2018.10.022 |pmid=30526867 |pmc=6288199 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[David Reich (geneticist)|David Reich]] in his 2018 book ''[[Who We Are and How We Got Here]]'' states that the 2016 analyses found the ASI to have significant amounts of an ancestry component deriving from Iranian farmers (about 25% of their ancestry), with the remaining 75% of their ancestry deriving from native South Asian hunter-gatherers. He adds that ASI were unlikely the local hunter-gatherers of South Asia as previously established, but a population responsible for spreading agriculture throughout South Asia. In the case of the ANI, the Iranian farmer ancestry is 50%, with the rest being from steppe groups related to the Yamnaya.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last1=Reich |first1=David |title=Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the new science of the human past |date=2018 |publisher=OUP Oxford |isbn=978-0-19-257040-6 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=8NFeDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=Who+We+Are+and+How+We+Got+Here+asi&amp;pg=PT216 |access-date=2 March 2020 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}, similarly, conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI (ancient ancestral south Indian, i.e. hunter-gatherers sharing a distant root with the Andamanese, Australian Aboriginals, and East Asians); and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; (with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population).{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} The authors propose that the AASI indigenous hunter-gatherers represent a divergent branch that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge (Andamanese) and Australian Aboriginal ancestors separated from each other. It inferred, &quot;essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. (2019) however shows that modern South Asian populations are generally closest to West-Eurasians. They concluded that modern South Asians are basically a mixture of a native South Asian genetic component and a later-arriving West-Eurasian component (derived from both West Asia and the western Steppes). The authors also argue that the native South Asian genetic component is distinct from the Andamanese or East Asians, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect proxy. They propose that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (a group of predominantly ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians, as the Paniya are directly derived from the natives of South Asia, while the Onge may have received geneflow from other groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;auto&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from peoples related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers, with the Iranian-related ancestry being on average predominant. The samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI. The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;[[Steppe ancestry]]&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10|date = September 2019 | pmid = 31495572| pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Genetic distance between caste groups and tribes ====<br /> Studies by Watkins et al. (2005) and Kivisild et al. (2003) based on autosomal markers conclude that Indian caste and tribal populations have a common ancestry.&lt;ref name=&quot;kivisild2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Watkins2005 /&gt; Reddy et al. (2005) found fairly uniform allele frequency distributions across caste groups of southern [[Andhra Pradesh]], but significantly larger genetic distance between caste groups and tribes indicating [[genetic isolation]] of the tribes and castes.&lt;ref name=Reddy2005 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Viswanathan et al. (2004) in a study on genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India concludes, &quot;''Genetic differentiation was high and genetic distances were not significantly correlated with geographic distances. Genetic drift therefore probably played a significant role in shaping the patterns of genetic variation observed in southern Indian tribal populations.'' Otherwise, analyses of population relationships showed that all Indian and South Asian populations are still similar to one another, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and do not show any particular affinities to Africans. We conclude that the phenotypic similarities of some Indian groups to Africans ''do not'' reflect a close relationship between these groups, but are better explained by ''convergence''.&quot;&lt;ref name=Vishwanathan2004 /&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2011 study published in the [[American Journal of Human Genetics]]&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt; indicates that Indian ancestral components are the result of a more complex demographic history than was previously thought. According to the researchers, South Asia harbours two major ancestral components, one of which is spread at comparable frequency and genetic diversity in populations of Central Asia, West Asia and Europe; the other component is more restricted to South Asia. However, if one were to rule out the possibility of a large-scale Indo-Aryan migration, these findings suggest that the genetic affinities of both Indian ancestral components are the result of multiple gene flows over the course of thousands of years.&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt;&lt;!--{{Quote|Modeling of the observed haplotype diversities suggests that both Indian ancestry components are older than the purported Indo-Aryan invasion 3,500 YBP. Consistent with the results of pairwise genetic distances among world regions, Indians share more ancestry signals with West than with East Eurasians.}}--&gt;<br /> <br /> Narashimhan et al 2019 found Austroasiatic-speaking Munda tribals could not be modeled simply as mixture of ASI, AASI, ANI ancestry unlike other South Asians but required additional ancestry component from Southeast Asia. They were modeled as mixture of 48% AASI, 52% Austroasiatic-clad related to [[Nicobarese]] and 37% ASI ancestry, thus the ancestry profile of the Mundas provides an independent line of ancestry from Southeast Asia around the 3rd millennium BCE.&lt;ref&gt;Narashimhan et al 2019&lt;/ref&gt; Lipson et al. 2018 found similar admixture results in regard to Munda tribals stating ''&quot;we obtained a good fit with three ancestry components: one western Eurasian, one deep eastern Eurasian (interpreted as an indigenous South Asian lineage), and one from the Austroasiatic clade&quot;''.&lt;ref&gt;lipson et al 2018&lt;/ref&gt; Lipson et al. 2018 further found that the Austroasiatic source clad (proportion 35%) in Munda tribals was inferred to be closest to [[Mlabri]]. &lt;ref name=&quot;Lipson et al 2018&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Lipson |first1=Mark |last2=Cheronet |first2=Olivia |last3=Mallick |first3=Swapan |last4=Rohland |first4=Nadin |last5=Oxenham |first5=Marc |last6=Pietrusewsky |first6=Michael |last7=Oliver Pryce |first7=Thomas |last8=Willis |first8=Anna |last9=Matsumura |first9=Hirofumi |last10=Buckley |first10=Hallie |last11=Domett |first11=Kate |last12=Hai Nguyen |first12=Giang |last13=Hiep Trinh |first13=Hoang |last14=Kyaw |first14=Aung Aung |last15=Win |first15=Tin Tin |last16=Pradier |first16=Baptiste |last17=Broomandkhoshbacht |first17=Nasreen |last18=Candilio |first18=Francesca |last19=Changmai |first19=Piya |last20=Fernandes |first20=Daniel |last21=Ferry |first21=Matthew |last22=Gamarra |first22=Beatriz |last23=Harney |first23=Eadaoin |last24=Kampuansai |first24=Jatupol |last25=Kutanan |first25=Megan |last26=Novak |first26=Mario |last27=Oppenheimer |first27=Jonas |last28=Sirak |first28=Kendra |last29=Stewardson |first29=Kristin |last30=Zhang |first30=Zhao |last31=Flegontov |first31=Pavel |last32=Pinhasi |first32=Ron |last33=Reich |first33=David |title=Ancient genomes document multiple waves of migration in Southeast Asian prehistory |journal=Science |date=06 July 2018 |volume=361 |issue=6397 |pages=92-95 |doi=DOI: 10.1126/science.aat3188 |url=https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/92 |access-date=06 July 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt; Singh et al 2020 similarly found Austroasiatic speakers in South Asia fall out of the South Asian cline due to their Southeast Asian genetic affinity. <br /> &lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pratap Singh |first1=Prajjval |last2=Vishwakarma |first2=Shani |last3=Nahar Sultana |first3=Gazi Nurun |last4=Pilvar |first4=Arno |last5=Karmin |first5=Monika |last6=Rootsi |first6=Siiri |last7=Villems |first7=Richard |last8=Metspalu |first8=Mait |last9=M. Behar |first9=Doron |last10=Kivisild |first10=Toomas |last11=Van Driem |first11=George |last12=Chaubey |first12=Gyaneshwer |title=Dissecting the paternal founders of Mundari (Austroasiatic) speakers associated with the language dispersal in South Asia |journal=European Journal of Human Genetics |date=21 October 2020 |volume=172 |pages=1-5 |doi=https://doi.org/10.1038/s41431-020-00745-1 |url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-00745-1#citeas |access-date=21 October 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{Portal|Evolutionary biology}}<br /> *[[Archaeogenetics]]<br /> *[[Ethnic groups of South Asia]]<br /> *[[List of ethnolinguistic regions of South Asia]]<br /> *[[Peopling of India]]<br /> *[[Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of South Asia]]<br /> *[[Genetic studies on Gujarati people]]<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{Reflist|colwidth=30em|refs=<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Baig MM, Khan AA, Kulkarni KM | title = Mitochondrial DNA diversity in tribal and caste groups of Maharashtra (India) and its implication on their genetic origins | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 5 | pages = 453–60 | date = September 2004 | pmid = 15469422 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2004.00108.x | s2cid = 23032872 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Eaaswarkhanth2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Eaaswarkhanth M, Haque I, Ravesh Z, Romero IG, Meganathan PR, Dubey B, Khan FA, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Tyler-Smith C, Singh L, Thangaraj K | display-authors = 6 | title = Traces of sub-Saharan and Middle Eastern lineages in Indian Muslim populations | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 3 | pages = 354–63 | date = March 2010 | pmid = 19809480 | pmc = 2859343 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.168 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Firasat2007&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Firasat S, Khaliq S, Mohyuddin A, Papaioannou M, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Ayub Q | title = Y-chromosomal evidence for a limited Greek contribution to the Pathan population of Pakistan | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 15 | issue = 1 | pages = 121–6 | date = January 2007 | pmid = 17047675 | pmc = 2588664 | doi = 10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201726 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot;&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html |title=Y-DNA Haplogroup H and its Subclades – 2015 |access-date=11 October 2015 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151101022048/http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html |archive-date=1 November 2015 |url-status=live }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a&gt;{{citation |first1=Toomas |last1=Kivisild |author-link1=Toomas Kivisild |first2=Surinder S. |last2=Papiha |first3=Siiri |last3=Rootsi |first4=Jüri |last4=Parik |first5=Katrin |last5=Kaldma |first6=Maere |last6=Reidla |first7=Sirle |last7=Laos |first8=Mait |last8=Metspalu |first9=Gerli |last9=Pielberg |first10=Maa rja |last10=Adojaan |first11=Ene |last11=Metspalu |first12=Sarabjit S. |last12=Mastana |first13=Yiming |last13=Wang |first14=Mukaddes |last14=Golge |first15=Halil |last15=Demirtas |first16=Eckart |last16=Schnakenberg |first17=Gian Franco |last17=de Stefano |first18=Tarekegn |last18=Geberhiwot |first19=Mireille |last19=Claustres |first20=Richard |last20=Villems | name-list-style = vanc | display-authors = 6 |title=An Indian Ancestry: a Key for Understanding Human Diversity in Europe and Beyond |year=2000 |publisher=McDonald Institute Monographs | url= http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf |access-date=11 November 2005 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20060219054924/http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf |archive-date=19 February 2006 |url-status=live}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kumar2007&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kumar V, Reddy AN, Babu JP, Rao TN, Langstieh BT, Thangaraj K, Reddy AG, Singh L, Reddy BM | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 7 | pages = 47 | date = March 2007 | pmid = 17389048 | pmc = 1851701 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Manoukian&quot;&gt;Manoukian, Jean-Grégoire (2006), &quot;[http://www.ethnoancestry.com/index_files/index_data/Haplogroup_R2_Manoukian.pdf A Synthesis of Haplogroup R2 – 2006] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151001014558/http://www.ethnoancestry.com/index_files/index_data/Haplogroup_R2_Manoukian.pdf |date=1 October 2015 }}.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=mcDonald&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf |title=Y Haplogroups of the World, 2005, McDonald |access-date=24 October 2006 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20040728005528/http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf |archive-date=28 July 2004 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Metspalu2011&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Mirabal2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mirabal S, Regueiro M, Cadenas AM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA, Verbenko DA, Limborska SA, Herrera RJ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome distribution within the geo-linguistic landscape of northwestern Russia | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 17 | issue = 10 | pages = 1260–73 | date = October 2009 | pmid = 19259129 | pmc = 2986641 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.6 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Moorjani2013&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | author7-link = Bonnie Berger }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Reddy2005&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Reddy BM, Naidu VM, Madhavi VK, Thangaraj LK, Kumar V, Langstieh BT, Venkatramana P, Reddy AG, Singh L | s2cid = 18446485 | display-authors = 6 | title = Microsatellite diversity in Andhra Pradesh, India: genetic stratification versus social stratification | journal = Human Biology | volume = 77 | issue = 6 | pages = 803–23 | date = December 2005 | pmid = 16715839 | doi = 10.1353/hub.2006.0018 | url = http://dspace.nehu.ac.in/handle/1/1547 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Sahoo2006&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sahoo S, Singh A, Himabindu G, Banerjee J, Sitalaximi T, Gaikwad S, Trivedi R, Endicott P, Kivisild T, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kashyap VK | display-authors = 6 | title = A prehistory of Indian Y chromosomes: evaluating demic diffusion scenarios | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 103 | issue = 4 | pages = 843–8 | date = January 2006 | pmid = 16415161 | pmc = 1347984 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.0507714103 | bibcode = 2006PNAS..103..843S }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Sharma2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sharma S, Rai E, Sharma P, Jena M, Singh S, Darvishi K, Bhat AK, Bhanwer AJ, Tiwari PK, Bamezai RN | s2cid = 22162114 | display-authors = 6 | title = The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 54 | issue = 1 | pages = 47–55 | date = January 2009 | pmid = 19158816 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2008.2 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Puente XS, Velasco G, Gutiérrez-Fernández A, Bertranpetit J, King MC, López-Otín C | title = Comparative analysis of cancer genes in the human and chimpanzee genomes | journal = BMC Genomics | volume = 7 | pages = 15 | date = January 2006 | pmid = 16438707 | pmc = 1382208 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2164-7-15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Thangaraj2010&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thangaraj K, Naidu BP, Crivellaro F, Tamang R, Upadhyay S, Sharma VK, Reddy AG, Walimbe SR, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = The influence of natural barriers in shaping the genetic structure of Maharashtra populations | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 5 | issue = 12 | pages = e15283 | date = December 2010 | pmid = 21187967 | pmc = 3004917 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0015283 | editor1-last = Cordaux | bibcode = 2010PLoSO...515283T | editor1-first = Richard }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thanseem I, Thangaraj K, Chaubey G, Singh VK, Bhaskar LV, Reddy BM, Reddy AG, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic affinities among the lower castes and tribal groups of India: inference from Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 7 | pages = 42 | date = August 2006 | pmid = 16893451 | pmc = 1569435 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-7-42}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Tripathy2008&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Tripathy |first1=Vikal |last2=Nirmala |first2=A. |last3=Reddy |first3=B. Mohan |s2cid=12763485 |title=Trends in Molecular Anthropological Studies in India |journal=International Journal of Human Genetics |date=4 September 2017 |volume=8 |issue=1–2 |pages=1–20 |doi=10.1080/09723757.2008.11886015 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Vishwanathan2004&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | s2cid = 24230856 | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Watkins2005&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Watkins WS, Prasad BV, Naidu JM, Rao BB, Bhanu BA, Ramachandran B, Das PK, Gai PB, Reddy PC, Reddy PG, Sethuraman M, Bamshad MJ, Jorde LB | display-authors = 6 | title = Diversity and divergence among the tribal populations of India | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 69 | issue = Pt 6 | pages = 680–92 | date = November 2005 | pmid = 16266407 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2005.00200.x | s2cid = 31907598 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Zhao2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao Z, Khan F, Borkar M, Herrera R, Agrawal S | title = Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: a study of 560 Y chromosomes | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 36 | issue = 1 | pages = 46–59 | year = 2009 | pmid = 19058044 | pmc = 2755252 | doi = 10.1080/03014460802558522 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Bamshad2001&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Bamshad M, Kivisild T, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Ricker CE, Rao BB, Naidu JM, Prasad BV, Reddy PG, Rasanayagam A, Papiha SS, Villems R, Redd AJ, Hammer MF, Nguyen SV, Carroll ML, Batzer MA, Jorde LB | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence on the origins of Indian caste populations | journal = Genome Research | volume = 11 | issue = 6 | pages = 994–1004 | date = June 2001 | pmid = 11381027 | pmc = 311057 | doi = 10.1101/gr.GR-1733RR }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Basu2003&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Mukherjee N, Roy S, Sengupta S, Banerjee S, Chakraborty M, Dey B, Roy M, Roy B, Bhattacharyya NP, Roychoudhury S, Majumder PP | display-authors = 6 | title = Ethnic India: a genomic view, with special reference to peopling and structure | journal = Genome Research | volume = 13 | issue = 10 | pages = 2277–90 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 14525929 | pmc = 403703 | doi = 10.1101/gr.1413403 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild1999a&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Kivisild |first1=T. |last2=Bamshad |first2=M.J. |last3=Kaldma |first3=K. |last4=Metspalu |first4=M. |last5=Metspalu |first5=E. |last6=Reidla |first6=M. |last7=Laos |first7=S. |last8=Parik |first8=J. |last9=Watkins |first9=W.S. |last10=Dixon |first10=M.E. |last11=Papiha |first11=S.S. |last12=Mastana |first12=S.S. |last13=Mir |first13=M.R. |last14=Ferak |first14=V. |last15=Villems |first15=R. |s2cid=2821966 |title=Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages |journal=Current Biology |date=November 1999 |volume=9 |issue=22 |pages=1331–1334 |doi=10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 |pmid=10574762 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha S, Villems R |author-link1=Toomas Kivisild |doi=10.1007/978-1-4615-4263-6_11 | chapter =The Place of the Indian Mitochondrial DNA Variants in the Global Network of Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World |title =Genomic Diversity |year=1999 |isbn=978-1-4613-6914-1 |pages=135–152 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Underhill2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Myres NM, Rootsi S, Metspalu M, Zhivotovsky LA, King RJ, Lin AA, Chow CE, Semino O, Battaglia V, Kutuev I, Järve M, Chaubey G, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Mehdi SQ, Sengupta S, Rogaev EI, Khusnutdinova EK, Pshenichnov A, Balanovsky O, Balanovska E, Jeran N, Augustin DH, Baldovic M, Herrera RJ, Thangaraj K, Singh V, Singh L, Majumder P, Rudan P, Primorac D, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 4 | pages = 479–84 | date = April 2010 | pmid = 19888303 | pmc = 2987245 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.194 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Majumder2010&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Majumder PP | s2cid = 1490419 | title = The human genetic history of South Asia | journal = Current Biology | volume = 20 | issue = 4 | pages = R184-7 | date = February 2010 | pmid = 20178765 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2009.11.053 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Mukherjee2001&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | s2cid = 13267463 | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/BF02717908 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Reich2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> }}<br /> <br /> === Further reading ===<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Allikas A, Ord D, Kurg R, Kivi S, Ustav M | title = Roles of the hinge region and the DNA binding domain of the bovine papillomavirus type 1 E2 protein in initiation of DNA replication | journal = Virus Research | volume = 75 | issue = 2 | pages = 95–106 | date = June 2001 | pmid = 11325464 | doi = 10.1016/S0168-1702(01)00219-2 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Behar DM, Garrigan D, Kaplan ME, Mobasher Z, Rosengarten D, Karafet TM, Quintana-Murci L, Ostrer H, Skorecki K, Hammer MF | s2cid = 10310338 | display-authors = 6 | title = Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome variation in Ashkenazi Jewish and host non-Jewish European populations | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 4 | pages = 354–65 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 14740294 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1073-7 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Bhattacharyya NP, Basu P, Das M, Pramanik S, Banerjee R, Roy B, Roychoudhury S, Majumder PP | display-authors = 6 | title = Negligible male gene flow across ethnic boundaries in India, revealed by analysis of Y-chromosomal DNA polymorphisms | journal = Genome Research | volume = 9 | issue = 8 | pages = 711–9 | date = August 1999 | pmid = 10447506 | doi = 10.1101/gr.9.8.711 | url = http://genome.cshlp.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&amp;pmid=10447506 | doi-broken-date = 3 February 2021 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Cann RL | s2cid = 19367408 | title = Genetic clues to dispersal in human populations: retracing the past from the present | journal = Science | volume = 291 | issue = 5509 | pages = 1742–8 | date = March 2001 | pmid = 11249820 | doi = 10.1126/science.1058948 | bibcode = 2001Sci...291.1742C }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Cinnioğlu C, King R, Kivisild T, Kalfoğlu E, Atasoy S, Cavalleri GL, Lillie AS, Roseman CC, Lin AA, Prince K, Oefner PJ, Shen P, Semino O, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA | s2cid = 10763736 | display-authors = 6 | title = Excavating Y-chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 2 | pages = 127–48 | date = January 2004 | pmid = 14586639 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1031-4 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Das B, Chauhan PS, Seshadri M | s2cid = 12835244 | title = Minimal sharing of Y-chromosome STR haplotypes among five endogamous population groups from western and southwestern India | journal = Human Biology | volume = 76 | issue = 5 | pages = 743–63 | date = October 2004 | pmid = 15757245 | doi = 10.1353/hub.2005.0003 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last1 = Hemphill | first1 = Brian E. | last2 = Christensen | first2 = Alexander F. | name-list-style = vanc | title = The Oxus Civilization as a Link between East and West: A Non-Metric Analysis of Bronze Age Bactrain Biological Affinities | date = 3 November 1994 | location = Madison, Wisconsin | page = 13}} (paper read at the South Asia Conference)<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Jobling MA, Tyler-Smith C | s2cid = 13508130 | title = The human Y chromosome: an evolutionary marker comes of age | journal = Nature Reviews. Genetics | volume = 4 | issue = 8 | pages = 598–612 | date = August 2003 | pmid = 12897772 | doi = 10.1038/nrg1124 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Rootsi S, Metspalu M, Mastana S, Kaldma K, Parik J, Metspalu E, Adojaan M, Tolk HV, Stepanov V, Gölge M, Usanga E, Papiha SS, Cinnioğlu C, King R, Cavalli-Sforza L, Underhill PA, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic heritage of the earliest settlers persists both in Indian tribal and caste populations | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 2 | pages = 313–32 | date = February 2003 | pmid = 12536373 | pmc = 379225 | doi = 10.1086/346068 | author-link1 = Toomas Kivisild }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Patowary A, Purkanti R, Singh M, Chauhan RK, Bhartiya D, Dwivedi OP, Chauhan G, Bharadwaj D, Sivasubbu S, Scaria V | s2cid = 11466942 | display-authors = 6 | title = Systematic analysis and functional annotation of variations in the genome of an Indian individual | journal = Human Mutation | volume = 33 | issue = 7 | pages = 1133–40 | date = July 2012 | pmid = 22461382 | doi = 10.1002/humu.22091 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Rootsi S, Magri C, Kivisild T, Benuzzi G, Help H, Bermisheva M, Kutuev I, Barać L, Pericić M, Balanovsky O, Pshenichnov A, Dion D, Grobei M, Zhivotovsky LA, Battaglia V, Achilli A, Al-Zahery N, Parik J, King R, Cinnioğlu C, Khusnutdinova E, Rudan P, Balanovska E, Scheffrahn W, Simonescu M, Brehm A, Goncalves R, Rosa A, Moisan JP, Chaventre A, Ferak V, Füredi S, Oefner PJ, Shen P, Beckman L, Mikerezi I, Terzić R, Primorac D, Cambon-Thomsen A, Krumina A, Torroni A, Underhill PA, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Villems R, Semino O | display-authors = 6 | title = Phylogeography of Y-chromosome haplogroup I reveals distinct domains of prehistoric gene flow in europe | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 75 | issue = 1 | pages = 128–37 | date = July 2004 | pmid = 15162323 | pmc = 1181996 | doi = 10.1086/422196 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Qamar R, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Helgason A, Mazhar K, Mansoor A, Zerjal T, Tyler-Smith C, Mehdi SQ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 5 | pages = 1107–24 | date = May 2002 | pmid = 11898125 | pmc = 447589 | doi = 10.1086/339929 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Semino O, Magri C, Benuzzi G, Lin AA, Al-Zahery N, Battaglia V, Maccioni L, Triantaphyllidis C, Shen P, Oefner PJ, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Torroni A, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS | display-authors = 6 | title = Origin, diffusion, and differentiation of Y-chromosome haplogroups E and J: inferences on the neolithization of Europe and later migratory events in the Mediterranean area | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 74 | issue = 5 | pages = 1023–34 | date = May 2004 | pmid = 15069642 | pmc = 1181965 | doi = 10.1086/386295 }}<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> == Sources ==<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * {{cite journal | author = Indian Genome Variation Consortium | s2cid = 21473349 | title = Genetic landscape of the people of India: a canvas for disease gene exploration | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 87 | issue = 1 | pages = 3–20 | date = April 2008 | pmid = 18560169 | doi = 10.1007/s12041-008-0002-x }}<br /> &lt;!-- E --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Endicott |first1=Phillip |last2=Metspalu |first2=Mait |last3=Kivisild |first3=Toomas | name-list-style = vanc |chapter=Genetic evidence on modern human dispersals in South Asia: Y chromose and mitochondrial DNA perspectives |editor1=Michael D. Petraglia |editor2=Bridget Allchin |title=The Evolution and History of Human Populations in South Asia |publisher=Springer |year=2007 |isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 |pages=201–228 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC&amp;pg=PA201}}<br /> &lt;!-- H --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Hemphill |first1=B.E. |last2=Lukacs |first2=J.R. |last3=Kennedy |first3=K.A.R. | name-list-style = vanc |chapter=Biological Adaptations and Affinities of Bronze Age Harappans |editor1-first=Richard H. |editor1-last=Meadow |title=Harappa excavations 1986–1990: a multidisciplinary approach to third millennium urbanism |year=1991 |pages=137–82 |isbn=978-0-9629110-1-9 }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{Cite book | last1 = Kennedy | first1 = Kenneth A.R. | name-list-style = vanc | author-link = Kenneth A.R. Kennedy | chapter = A Reassessment of the Theories of Racial Origins of the People of the Indus Valley Civilization from Recent Anthropological Data | title = Studies in the Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology of South Asia | pages = 99–107 | editor1-last = Kennedy | editor1-first = Kenneth A.R. | editor2-last = Possehl | editor2-first = Gregory L. | publisher = Humanities Press | year = 1984 | location = [[Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey|Atlantic Highlands, NJ]]}}&lt;!--? Oxford: American Institute of Indian Studies--&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Kennedy |first=Kenneth A. R. | name-list-style = vanc |year=1995 |chapter=Have Aryans been identified in the prehistoric skeletal record from South Asia? |editor=George Erdosy |title=The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia |publisher=Walter de Gruyter |isbn=978-3-11-014447-5 |pages=49–54 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=A6ZRShEIFwMC&amp;pg=PA49}}<br /> * {{Cite book | last = Kivisild | first = Toomas | name-list-style = vanc | title = The origins of southern and western Eurasian populations: an mtDNA study | publisher = Tartu University, Estonia | year = 2000b | url = http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000PhD.pdf }} (PhD)<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Mascarenhas DD, Raina A, Aston CE, Sanghera DK | title = Genetic and Cultural Reconstruction of the Migration of an Ancient Lineage | journal = BioMed Research International | volume = 2015 | pages = 651415 | year = 2015 | pmid = 26491681 | pmc = 4605215 | doi = 10.1155/2015/651415 }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | s2cid =89658279 | name-list-style = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | biorxiv =10.1101/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 | hdl =21.11116/0000-0001-E7B3-0 | hdl-access =free }}<br /> &lt;!-- O --&gt;<br /> * {{Cite book | last = Oppenheimer | first = Stephen | name-list-style = vanc | author-link = Stephen Oppenheimer | title = The Real Eve: Modern Man's Journey out of Africa | year = 2003 | location = New York | publisher = Carroll and Graf Publishers | isbn = 978-0-7867-1192-5}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation | last1 =Pamjav | s2cid =4820868 | title =Brief communication: New Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1 | journal =American Journal of Physical Anthropology| volume= 149| issue= 4| pages= 611–615|date= December 2012 | doi=10.1002/ajpa.22167 | pmid=23115110}}<br /> * {{Cite book | year = 2000a | title = An Indian Ancestry: a Key for Understanding Human Diversity in Europe and Beyond | editor1-last = Renfrew | editor1-first = Colin | editor2-last = Boyle | editor2-first = Katie | name-list-style = vanc | url = http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf | isbn= 978-1-902937-08-3}}<br /> &lt;!-- S --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Silva M, Oliveira M, Vieira D, Brandão A, Rito T, Pereira JB, Fraser RM, Hudson B, Gandini F, Edwards C, Pala M, Koch J, Wilson JF, Pereira L, Richards MB, Soares P | display-authors = 6 | title = A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 17 | issue = 1 | pages = 88 | date = March 2017 | pmid = 28335724 | pmc = 5364613 | doi = 10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 |ref={{sfnref|Silva et al.|2017}}}}<br /> &lt;!-- U --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA | s2cid = 15527457 | title = Inferring human history: clues from Y-chromosome haplotypes | journal = Cold Spring Harbor Symposia on Quantitative Biology | volume = 68 | pages = 487–93 | year = 2003 | pmid = 15338652 | doi = 10.1101/sqb.2003.68.487 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Poznik GD, Rootsi S, Järve M, Lin AA, Wang J, Passarelli B, Kanbar J, Myres NM, King RJ, Di Cristofaro J, Sahakyan H, Behar DM, Kushniarevich A, Sarac J, Saric T, Rudan P, Pathak AK, Chaubey G, Grugni V, Semino O, Yepiskoposyan L, Bahmanimehr A, Farjadian S, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Herrera RJ, Chiaroni J, Bustamante CD, Quake SR, Kivisild T, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 23 | issue = 1 | pages = 124–31 | date = January 2015 | pmid = 24667786 | pmc = 4266736 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2014.50 }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | vauthors = Wells S |year=2003 |title=The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | url = https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well | url-access = registration |publisher=Princeton University Press}}<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> {{Wikiquote}}<br /> * [http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/NewWebSurnames041008.html ''Introduction to Haplogroups and Haplotypes''], Mark A. Jobling, University of Leicester. [http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/SurnamesForWeb.pdf ]<br /> * [http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ Journey of Man: Peopling of the World], Bradshaw Foundation, in association with [[Stephen Oppenheimer]].<br /> *[http://igvdb.res.in/ Indian Genome Variation Database] [[Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology]]<br /> * [http://sites.google.com/site/r2dnainfo/R2-Home/r2-dna/r2-frequency/r2-frequencies-worldwide?pli=1 List of R2 frequency]<br /> * [http://maldives-ancestry.blogspot.in/2013/05/maldivian-ancestry-in-light-of-genetics.html Maldives]<br /> <br /> {{Human genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Human Y-DNA haplogroups|+]]<br /> [[Category:Human genetics|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Modern human genetic history|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Genetics by country|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:South Asia]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetics_and_archaeogenetics_of_South_Asia&diff=1012688870 Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia 2021-03-17T19:28:39Z <p>Ilber8000: Fixed broken citation</p> <hr /> <div>{{EngvarB|date=November 2019}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=March 2020}}<br /> '''Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia''' is the study of the [[genetics]] and [[archaeogenetics]] of the [[ethnic groups of South Asia]]. It aims at uncovering these groups' [[genetic history]]. The geographic position of South Asia makes its biodiversity important for the study of the early dispersal of [[anatomically modern human]]s across [[Asia]].<br /> <br /> Studies based on Mitochondrial DNA ([[mtDNA]]) variations have reported genetic unity across various South Asian sub–populations, showing that most of the ancestral nodes of the phylogenetic tree of all the mtDNA types originated in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt; Conclusions of studies based on Y Chromosome variation and Autosomal DNA variation have been varied. Recent genome studies appear to show that most South Asians are descendants of two major ancestral components, one restricted to South Asia (''Ancestral South Indian'', derived from West-Eurasian[[Indus Valley Civilisation|IVC]]-people and a distinctive native South Asian population, which was distantly related to the Andamanese and East Asians), and the other component (''Ancestral North Indian,'' derived from West-Eurasian IVC-people and [[Pontic steppe|Pontic Steppe-pastoralists]], making them closely related to those in [[Central Asia]], [[West Asia]] and [[Europe]].&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Moorjani2013 /&gt;{{sfn|Silva et al.|2017}} Basu et al. (2016) identified two more ancestral components in mainland India, denoted as ''AAA'' and ''ATB'', that are major for the Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribals and the Tibeto-Burman speakers respectively. The study also infers that the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which &quot;was found to be coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations&quot; and distant from contemporary South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2016&quot;/&gt; Yelmen et al. 2019 concluded that the AASI (Ancient Ancestral South Indians) form their own ancestral clade, best represented by the indigenous tribes, such as the [[Irula people]] and [[Paniya people]].&lt;ref name=&quot;auto&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Yelmen|first1=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=1 August 2019|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt; The East Asian ancestry component detected in India is mainly restricted to specific populations in the [[Himalayan foothills]] and [[Northeast India]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |last2=Kadian |first2=Anurag |last3=Bala |first3=Saroj |last4=Rao |first4=Vadlamudi Raghavendra |url=https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0127655|s2cid=848806 |title=Genetic Affinity of the Bhil, Kol and Gond Mentioned in Epic Ramayana |journal=PLOS ONE |date=10 June 2015 |volume=10 |issue=6 |pages=e0127655 |doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0127655 |pmid=26061398 |pmc=4465503 |bibcode=2015PLoSO..1027655C |language=en |issn=1932-6203}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> It has been found that the ancestral node of the phylogenetic tree of all the [[mtDNA]] types ([[mitochondrial DNA haplogroup]]s) typically found in Central Asia, the West Asia and Europe are also to be found in South Asia at relatively high frequencies. The inferred divergence of this common ancestral node is estimated to have occurred slightly less than 50,000 years ago, supporting an &quot;Out-of-India&quot; event for West-Eurasian populations such as Europeans, during the early Paleolithic.&lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a /&gt; In India, the major maternal lineages are various [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]] subclades, followed by [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] sublineages. These mitochondrial haplogroups' coalescence times have been approximated to date to 50,000 BP.&lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a /&gt;<br /> <br /> The major paternal lineages of Indians, represented by [[Y chromosome]]s, are haplogroups [[Haplogroup R1a1|R1a1]], [[Haplogroup R2|R2]], [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|H]], [[Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)|L]] and [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]], all common in modern day West-Eurasians, such as Middle Easterners and Europeans. The ancestral lineages are suggested to have diverged within South Asia and than spreaded to Europe and northern Africa respectively.&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt; Some researchers have argued that Y-DNA Haplogroup R1a1 (M17) is of [[autochthon (person)|autochthonous]] South Asian origin.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; However, proposals for a Central Asian origin for R1a1 are also quite common.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> == Overview ==<br /> All the mtDNA and Y-chromosome lineages outside Africa descend from three founder lineages:<br /> * [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N]] and [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] haplogroups for mtDNA and<br /> * [[Haplogroup C (Y-DNA)|C]], [[Haplogroup D (Y-DNA)|D]] and [[Haplogroup F* (Y-DNA)|F]] haplogroups for the Y-chromosome.<br /> All these six founder haplogroups can be found in the present day populations of [[South Asia]]. Moreover, the mtDNA haplogroup M and the Y-chromosome haplogroups C and D are restricted to the area ''east'' of South Asia. All the West [[Eurasian]] populations derive from the N and R haplogroups of mtDNA and the F haplogroup of the Y-chromosome.{{sfn|Endicott|Metspalu|Kivisild|2007|p=231}}<br /> <br /> Endicott et al. state that these facts are consistent with the hypothesis of a single exodus from East Africa 65,000 years ago via a [[Recent African origin of modern humans#Movement out of Africa|southern coastal route]], with the West Eurasian lineages separating from the South Asian lineages somewhere between East/Northeast Africa and South Asia.{{sfn|Endicott|Metspalu|Kivisild|2007|pp=234–235}}<br /> <br /> The predominant majority genome markers of South Asians are all closely related to [[West Eurasians]] and may have either originated in [[Western Asia]] or [[South Asia]] itself.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Das |first1=Ranajit |last2=Upadhyai |first2=Priyanka |s2cid=88966532 |title=Tracing the biogeographical origin of South Asian populations using DNA SatNav |journal=bioRxiv |date=25 November 2016 |pages=089466 |doi=10.1101/089466 |quote=Our hypothesis is supported by archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidences that suggest that there were two prominent waves of immigrations to India. A majority of the Early Caucasoids were proto-Dravidian language speakers that migrated to India putatively ~ 6000 YBP.}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Full genome analyses in 2020 reveals that the Indian people (majority of the South Asian ethnic groups) are closely related to various West-Eurasian populations, such as Europeans and Middle Easterners. Some forest tribes however have rather diverse ancestry and are shifted towards non-West-Eurasian groups.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|date=2020-12-01|title=The Y-chromosome of the Soliga, an ancient forest-dwelling tribe of South India|url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590158319300233|journal=Gene: X|language=en|volume=5|pages=100026|doi=10.1016/j.gene.2019.100026|issn=2590-1583}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == mtDNA ==<br /> {{See also|Recent single origin hypothesis}}<br /> [[File:Peopling of eurasia.jpg|thumb|300px|Hypothesized map of human migration into [[South Asia]] based on [[mitochondrial DNA]] and possible dispersal routes.]]<br /> The most frequent [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|mtDNA haplogroups]] in South Asia are [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] (where U is a descendant of R).&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt;<br /> <br /> Arguing for the longer term &quot;rival Y-Chromosome model&quot;,&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt; [[Stephen Oppenheimer]] believes that it is highly suggestive that India is the origin of the [[Eurasia]]n [[mtDNA]] haplogroups which he calls the &quot;Eurasian Eves&quot;. According to Oppenheimer it is highly probable that nearly all human maternal lineages in Central Asia, the Middle East and Europe descended from only four mtDNA lines that originated in South Asia 50,000–100,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Oppenheimer|2003}}{{page needed|date=December 2013}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Macrohaplogroup M ===<br /> The [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup M]], which is considered as a cluster of the proto-Asian maternal lineages,&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt; represents more than 60% of South Asian MtDNA.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> The M macrohaplotype in India includes many subgroups that differ profoundly from other sublineages in East Asia especially Mongoloid populations.&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt; The deep roots of M phylogeny clearly ascertain the relic of South Asian lineages as compared to other M sub lineages (in East Asia and elsewhere) suggesting 'in-situ' origin of these sub-haplogroups in South Asia, most likely in India. These deep rooting lineages are not language specific and spread over all the language groups in India.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Virtually all modern Central Asian MtDNA M lineages seem to belong to the Eastern Eurasian ([[Mongoloid|Mongolian]]) rather than the South Asian subtypes of haplogroup M, which indicates that no large-scale migration from the present [[Turkic languages|Turkic]]-speaking populations of Central Asia occurred to India. The absence of haplogroup M in Europeans, compared to its equally high frequency among South Asians, East Asians and in some Central Asian populations contrasts with the Western Eurasian leanings of South Asian paternal lineages.&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt;<br /> <br /> Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans.&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Important Sub clades || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! M2<br /> || M2a, M2b || Throughout the continent with low presence in Northwest &lt;br /&gt; Peaking in Bangladesh, Andhra Pradesh, coastal Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka<br /> |-<br /> ! M3<br /> || M3a || Concentrated into northwestern India &lt;br /&gt; Highest amongst the Parsees of Mumbai<br /> |-<br /> ! M4<br /> || M4a || Peaks in Pakistan, Kashmir and Andhra Pradesh<br /> |-<br /> ! M6<br /> || M6a, M6b || Kashmir and near the coasts of the Bay of Bengal, Sri Lanka<br /> |-<br /> ! M18<br /> || || Throughout South Asia&lt;br /&gt; Peaking at Rajasthan and Andhra Pradesh<br /> |-<br /> ! M25<br /> || || Moderately frequent in Kerala and Maharashtra but rather infrequent elsewhere in India<br /> |}<br /> <br /> === Macrohaplogroup R ===<br /> <br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | width = 130<br /> | image1=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-2.jpg<br /> | image2=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-1.jpg<br /> | image3=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-3.jpg<br /> | footer = The spatial distribution of [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] mtDNA haplogroups and their sub-haplogroups in South Asia. <br /> }}<br /> <br /> The [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup R]] (a very large and old subdivision of [[Haplogroup N (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup N]]) is also widely represented and accounts for the other 40% of South Asian MtDNA. A very old and most important subdivision of it is [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|haplogroup U]] that, while also present in [[West Eurasia]], has several subclades specific to South Asia.<br /> <br /> Most important South Asian haplogroups within R:&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! R2<br /> || Distributed widely across the sub continent<br /> |-<br /> ! R5<br /> || widely distributed by most of India. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks in coastal SW India<br /> |-<br /> ! R6<br /> || widespread at low rates across India. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks among Tamils and Kashmiris<br /> |-<br /> ! W<br /> || Found in northwestern states. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks in Gujarat, Punjab and Kashmir, frequency is low elsewhere.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> ==== Haplogroup U ====<br /> [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|Haplogroup U]] is a sub-haplogroup of macrohaplogroup R.&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt; The distribution of haplogroup U is a mirror image of that for haplogroup M: the former has not been described so far among eastern Asians but is frequent in European populations as well as among South Asians.&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999a /&gt; South Asian U lineages differ substantially from those in Europe and their coalescence to a common ancestor also dates back to about 50,000 years.&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! U2*<br /> || (a [[parahaplogroup]]) is sparsely distributed specially in the northern half of the South Asia.<br /> It is also found in SW Arabia.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2a<br /> || shows relatively high density in Pakistan and NW India but also in Karnataka, where it reaches its higher density.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2b<br /> || has highest concentration in Uttar Pradesh but is also found in many other places, specially in Kerala and Sri Lanka.<br /> It is also found in Oman.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2c<br /> || is specially important in Bangladesh and West Bengal.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2l<br /> || is maybe the most important numerically among U subclades in South Asia, reaching specially high concentrations (over 10%) in Uttar Pradesh, Sri Lanka, Sindh and parts of Karnataka. It also has some importance in Oman. [[mtDNA haplogroup U2i]] is dubbed &quot;Western Eurasian&quot; in Bamshad ''et al.'' study but &quot;Eastern Eurasian (mostly India specific)&quot; in Kivisild ''et al.'' study.<br /> |-<br /> ! U7<br /> || this haplogroup has a significant presence in Gujarat, Punjab and Pakistan. The possible homeland of this haplogroup spans Gujarat (highest frequency, 12%) and Iran because from there its frequency declines steeply both to the east and to the west.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> == Y chromosome ==<br /> [[File:Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG|thumb|350px|The diversion of [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants.]]<br /> '''{{details|topic=individual groups by Y-DNA|Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of South Asia}}'''<br /> The major South Asian Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups are [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|H]], [[Haplogroup J-M172|J2]], [[Haplogroup L-M20|L]], [[Haplogroup R1a1|R1a1]] and [[Haplogroup R2a|R2]], typically West-Eurasian haplogroups shared with Europeans and Middle Easterners.&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt; Their geographical origins are listed as follows, according to the latest scholarship:<br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; border=&quot;1&quot;<br /> !width=16%|Major South Asian Y-chromosomal lineages:<br /> !width=16%|H<br /> !width=16%|J2<br /> !width=16%|L<br /> !width=16%|R1a<br /> !width=16%|R2<br /> |- valign=top<br /> !Basu ''et al.'' (2003)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |Central Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Kivisild ''et al.'' (2003)<br /> |India<br /> |Western Asia<br /> |India<br /> |Southern and Western Asia<br /> |South-Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Cordaux ''et al.'' (2004)<br /> |India<br /> |West or Central Asia<br /> |Middle Eastern<br /> |Central Asia<br /> |South-Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Sengupta ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |India<br /> |The Middle East and Central Asia<br /> |South India<br /> |North India<br /> |North India<br /> |-<br /> !Thanseem ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |India<br /> |The Levant<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |Southern and Central Asia<br /> |Southern and Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Sahoo ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |South Asia<br /> |The Near East<br /> |South Asia<br /> |South or West Asia<br /> |South Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Mirabal ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |Northwestern India or Central Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Zhao ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |India<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |Central Asia or West Eurasia<br /> |Central Asia or West Eurasia<br /> |-<br /> !Sharma ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |South Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Thangaraj ''et al.'' (2010)<br /> |South Asia<br /> |The Near East<br /> |The Near East<br /> |South Asia<br /> |South Asia<br /> |}<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup H ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)}}<br /> <br /> [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)]] is found at a high frequency in South Asia. H is today rarely found outside of the South Asia but is common among the [[Romanis]], particularly the H-M82 subgroup. H was also quite common in ancient samples of Europe and is still found today at a low frequency in Europeans and Arabs of the [[Levant]]. Haplogroup H is frequently found among populations of [[India]], [[Sri Lanka]], [[Nepal]], [[Pakistan]] and the [[Maldives]]. All three branches of [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)]] are found in South Asia.<br /> <br /> It is a branch of [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and descends from [[Haplogroup GHIJK|GHIJK]] family. [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup H]] is believed to have arisen in South Asia between 30,000 and 40,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot; /&gt; Its probable site of introduction is South Asia, since it is concentrated there. It seems to represent the main Y-Chromosome haplogroup of the paleolithic inhabitants of South Asia and Europe respectively. Some individuals in South Asia have also been shown to belong to the much rarer subclade H3 (Z5857).&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot; /&gt; Haplogroup H is by no means restricted to specific populations. For example, H is possessed by about 28.8% of Indo-Aryan castes.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; and in tribals about 25–35%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup J2 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)}}<br /> Haplogroup J2 has been present in South Asia mostly as J2a-M410 and J2b-M102, since neolithic times (9500 YBP).&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Singh |first1=Sakshi |last2=Singh |first2=Ashish |last3=Rajkumar |first3=Raja |last4=Sampath Kumar |first4=Katakam |last5=Kadarkarai Samy |first5=Subburaj |last6=Nizamuddin |first6=Sheikh |last7=Singh |first7=Amita |last8=Ahmed Sheikh |first8=Shahnawaz |last9=Peddada |first9=Vidya |last10=Khanna |first10=Vinee |last11=Veeraiah |first11=Pandichelvam |last12=Pandit |first12=Aridaman |last13=Chaubey |first13=Gyaneshwer |last14=Singh |first14=Lalji |last15=Thangaraj |first15=Kumarasamy |title=Dissecting the influence of Neolithic demic diffusion on Indian Y-chromosome pool through J2-M172 haplogroup |journal=Scientific Reports |date=12 January 2016 |volume=6 |issue=1 |page=19157 |doi=10.1038/srep19157 |pmid=26754573 |pmc=4709632 |bibcode=2016NatSR...619157S |language=en |issn=2045-2322}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Herrera2018&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Herrera |first1=Rene J. |last2=Garcia-Bertrand |first2=Ralph |title=Ancestral DNA, Human Origins, and Migrations |date=2018 |publisher=Academic Press |isbn=978-0-12-804128-4 |page=250 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=ZF1gDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=Ancestral+DNA+Human+Origins+and+Migrations+J2b-M102+South+Asia&amp;pg=PA250 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt; J2 clades attain peak frequencies in the North-West and South India&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot; /&gt; and is found at 19% within South Indian castes, 11% in North Indian castes and 12% in Pakistan.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; In [[South India]], the presence of J2 is higher among middle castes at 21%, followed by upper castes at 18.6% and lower castes at 14%.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; Among caste groups, the highest frequency of J2-M172 is observed among Tamil [[Vellalar]]s of South India, at 38.7%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sengupta S, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Mehdi SQ, Edmonds CA, Chow CE, Lin AA, Mitra M, Sil SK, Ramesh A, Usha Rani MV, Thakur CM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Majumder PP, Underhill PA | display-authors = 6 | title = Polarity and temporality of high-resolution y-chromosome distributions in India identify both indigenous and exogenous expansions and reveal minor genetic influence of Central Asian pastoralists | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 78 | issue = 2 | pages = 202–21 | date = February 2006 | pmid = 16400607 | pmc = 1380230 | doi = 10.1086/499411 }}&lt;/ref&gt; J2 is present in tribals too&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot; /&gt; and has a frequency of 11% in Austro-Asiatic tribals. Among the Austro-Asiatic tribals, the predominant [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]] occurs in the Lodha (35%).&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; J2 is also present in the South Indian [[hill tribe]] [[Toda people|Toda]] at 38.46%,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Soria-Hernanz DF, Kavitha VJ, Arun VS, Syama A, Ashokan KS, Gandhirajan KT, Vijayakumar K, Narayanan M, Jayalakshmi M, Ziegle JS, Royyuru AK, Parida L, Wells RS, Renfrew C, Schurr TG, Smith CT, Platt DE, Pitchappan R | display-authors = 6 | title = Population differentiation of southern Indian male lineages correlates with agricultural expansions predating the caste system | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 7 | issue = 11 | pages = e50269 | year = 2012 | pmid = 23209694 | pmc = 3508930 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0050269 | bibcode = 2012PLoSO...750269A }}&lt;/ref&gt; in the [[Andh|Andh tribe]] of [[Telangana]] at 35.19%&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt; and in the [[Kol people|Kol tribe]] of [[Uttar Pradesh]] at a frequency of 33.34%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sharma2009&quot;/&gt; Haplogroup J-P209 was found to be more common in India's [[Shia Muslim]]s, of which 28.7% belong to haplogroup J, with 13.7% in J-M410, 10.6% in J-M267 and 4.4% in J2b {{harv|Eaaswarkhanth|2009}}.<br /> <br /> In [[Pakistan]], the highest frequencies of J2-M172 were observed among the [[Parsi]]s at 38.89%, the [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speaking [[Brahui people|Brahuis]] at 28.18% and the Makrani [[Baloch people|Balochs]] at 24%.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Qamar R, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Helgason A, Mazhar K, Mansoor A, Zerjal T, Tyler-Smith C, Mehdi SQ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 5 | pages = 1107–24 | date = May 2002 | pmid = 11898125 | pmc = 447589 | doi = 10.1086/339929 }}&lt;/ref&gt; It also occurs at 18.18% in [[Siddi|Makrani Siddis]] and at 3% in [[Siddis of Karnataka|Karnataka Siddis]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shah AM, Tamang R, Moorjani P, Rani DS, Govindaraj P, Kulkarni G, Bhattacharya T, Mustak MS, Bhaskar LV, Reddy AG, Gadhvi D, Gai PB, Chaubey G, Patterson N, Reich D, Tyler-Smith C, Singh L, Thangaraj K | display-authors = 6 | title = Indian Siddis: African descendants with Indian admixture | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 1 | pages = 154–61 | date = July 2011 | pmid = 21741027 | pmc = 3135801 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.05.030 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> J2-M172 is found at an overall frequency of 10.3% among the [[Sinhalese people]] of [[Sri Lanka]].&lt;ref name=kivisild2003/&gt; In [[Maldives]], 20.6% of Maldivian population were found to be haplogroup J2 positive.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pijpe |first1=Jeroen |last2=de Voogt |first2=Alex |last3=van Oven |first3=Mannis |last4=Henneman |first4=Peter |last5=van der Gaag |first5=Kristiaan J. |last6=Kayser |first6=Manfred |last7=de Knijff |first7=Peter |title=Indian ocean crossroads: Human genetic origin and population structure in the maldives |journal=American Journal of Physical Anthropology |date=21 March 2013 |volume=151 |issue=1 |pages=58–67 |doi=10.1002/ajpa.22256 |pmid=23526367 |pmc=3652038 |language=en |issn=0002-9483}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup L ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)}}<br /> According to Dr. [[Spencer Wells]], L-M20 originated in the [[Pamir Knot]] region in [[Tajikistan]] and migrated into [[Pakistan]] and [[India]] ca. 30,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last1=Wells|first1=Spencer|title=Deep ancestry : inside the Genographic project|date=2007|publisher=National Geographic|location=Washington, D.C.|isbn=978-1426201189}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;David G 2017&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Spencer Wells (2003), ''The Journey of Man. A Genetic Odyssey''. New Delhi: Penguin Books India, p. 167&lt;/ref&gt; However, most other studies have proposed a [[West Asia]]n origin for L-M20 and associated its expansion in the [[Indus valley]] (~7,000 YBP) to [[neolithic]] farmers.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao Z, Khan F, Borkar M, Herrera R, Agrawal S | title = Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: a study of 560 Y chromosomes | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 36 | issue = 1 | pages = 46–59 | date = 2009 | pmid = 19058044 | pmc = 2755252 | doi = 10.1080/03014460802558522 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Aunger R, Bentley G, Nasidze I, Sirajuddin SM, Stoneking M | s2cid = 5721248 | title = Independent origins of Indian caste and tribal paternal lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 14 | issue = 3 | pages = 231–5 | date = February 2004 | pmid = 14761656 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2004.01.024 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McElreavey K, Quintana-Murci L | s2cid = 109014 | title = A population genetics perspective of the Indus Valley through uniparentally-inherited markers | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 32 | issue = 2 | pages = 154–62 | date = 2005 | pmid = 16096211 | doi = 10.1080/03014460500076223 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thangaraj K, Naidu BP, Crivellaro F, Tamang R, Upadhyay S, Sharma VK, Reddy AG, Walimbe SR, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = The influence of natural barriers in shaping the genetic structure of Maharashtra populations | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 5 | issue = 12 | pages = e15283 | date = December 2010 | pmid = 21187967 | pmc = 3004917 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0015283 | bibcode = 2010PLoSO...515283T }}&lt;/ref&gt; There are three subbranches of haplogroup L: L1-M76 (L1a1), L2-M317 (L1b) and L3-M357 (L1a2), found at varying levels in South Asia.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> [[Haplogroup L-M20|Haplogroup L]] shows time of neolithic expansion.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2010 /&gt; The clade is present in the Indian population at an overall frequency of ca. 7–15%.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Basu2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; [[Haplogroup L-M20|Haplogroup L]] has higher frequency among south Indian castes (ca. 17–19%) and reaches up to 68% in some castes in [[Karnataka]] but is somewhat rarer in north Indian castes (ca. 5–6%).&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; The presence of haplogroup L is quite rare among tribal groups (ca. 5,6–7%),&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; however a moderate, 14.6% has been observed among the [[Chenchu]]s.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Among regional and social groups, moderate to high frequencies have been observed in Konkanastha Brahmins (18.6%), Punjabis (12.1%), Gujaratis (10.4%), [[Lambadis]] (17.1%), [[Jats]] (36.8%)&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;David G 2017&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mahal DG, Matsoukas IG | title = Y-STR Haplogroup Diversity in the Jat Population Reveals Several Different Ancient Origins | journal = Frontiers in Genetics | volume = 8 | pages = 121 | date = 20 September 2017 | pmid = 28979290 | pmc = 5611447 | doi = 10.3389/fgene.2017.00121 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> In Pakistan, L1-M76 and L3-M357 subclades of L-M20 reaches overall frequencies of 5.1% and 6.8%, respectively.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;<br /> Haplogroup L3 (M357) is found frequently among [[Burusho people|Burusho]] (approx. 12%&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;) and [[Pashtun people|Pashtuns]] (approx. 7%&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;). Its highest frequency can be found in south western [[Balochistan (Pakistan)|Balochistan]] province along the [[Makran]] coast (28%) to [[Indus River]] delta. L3a (PK3) is found in approximately 23% of [[Nuristani people|Nuristani]] in northwest [[Pakistan]].&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;<br /> <br /> The clade is present in moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population (14% approx).{{sfn|Qamar|2002}}{{sfn|Mcelreavey|2005}}<br /> <br /> ====Sri Lanka====<br /> In one study, 16% of the Sinhalese were found to be Haplogroup L-M20 positive.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003a/&gt; In another study 18% were found to belong to L1.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup R1a1 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup R1a1a}}<br /> In South Asia, R1a1 has been observed often with high frequency in a number of demographic groups,&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot;&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Sengupta et al.|2005}}{{full|date=May 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; as well as with highest [[Microsatellite|STR]] diversity which lead some to see it as the locus of origin.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Mirabal2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> While R1a originated ca. 22,000&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt; to 25,000{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} years ago, its subclade M417 (R1a1a1) diversified ca. 5,800 years ago.{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} The distribution of M417-subclades R1-Z282 (including R1-Z280){{sfn|Pamjav|2012}} in Central- and Eastern Europe and R1-Z93 in Asia{{sfn|Pamjav|2012}}{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} suggests that R1a1a diversified within the [[Eurasian Steppe]]s or the [[Middle East]] and [[Caucasus]] region.{{sfn|Pamjav|2012}} The place of origin of these subclades plays a role in the debate about the origins of [[Indo-European languages|Indo-Europeans]].<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> <br /> In [[India]], high percentage of this haplogroup is observed in [[Bengali Brahmins|West Bengal Brahmins]] (72%)&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot; /&gt; to the east, [[Lohana|Gujarat Lohanas]] (60%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; to the west, [[Khatri]]s (67%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; in north, [[Iyengar|Iyengar Brahmins]] (31%) in the south.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot; /&gt; It has also been found in several [[South Indian]] [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]]-speaking [[Adivasi|tribals]] including the Kotas (41%) of Tamil Nadu{{sfn|ArunkumarG|2012}} [[Chenchu]] (26%) and Valmikis of [[Andhra Pradesh]]&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt; as well as the [[Yadav]] and [[Kallar(caste)|Kallar]] of [[Tamil Nadu]] suggesting that M17 is widespread in these Southern Indians tribes.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Kivisild|2003}}&lt;/ref&gt; Besides these, studies show high percentages in regionally diverse groups such as [[Meitei people|Manipuris]] (50%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; to the extreme North East and in among [[Punjabis]] (47%)&lt;ref name=kivisild2003/&gt; to the extreme North West.<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> In Pakistan, it is found at 71% among the Mohanna of [[Sindh Province]] to the south and 46% among the [[Balti people|Baltis]] of [[Gilgit-Baltistan]] to the north.&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Sri Lanka ====<br /> 23% of the [[Sinhalese people]] out of a sample of 87 subjects were found to be R1a1a (R-SRY1532) positive according to a 2003 research.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003a&gt;{{Cite book | last1 = Kivisild | first1 = Toomas | last2 = Rootsi |first2=Siiri |last3=Metspalu |first3=Mait |last4=Metspalu |first4=Ene |last5=Parik |first5=Juri |last6=Kaldma |first6=Katrin |last7=Usanga |first7=Esien |last8=Mastana |first8=Sarabjit |last9=Papiha |first9=Surinder S. |last10=Villems |first10=Richard | name-list-style = vanc | year = 2003 | chapter= The Genetics of Language and Farming Spread in India |editor=Bellwood P, Renfrew C |title=Examining the farming/language dispersal hypothesis | publisher = McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, Cambridge, United Kingdom | pages = 215–222 |chapter-url=http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2003a.pdf }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maldives ====<br /> In [[Maldives]], 23.8% of the [[Maldivian people]] were found to be R1a1a (M17) positive.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Nepal ====<br /> People in [[Terai]] Region, [[Nepal]] show R1a1a at 69%.&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Fornarino et al.|2009}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup R2 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)}}<br /> <br /> In South Asia, the frequency of [[Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA)|R2]] and [[Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)|R2a]] lineage is around 10–15% in India and [[Sri Lanka]] and 7–8% in Pakistan. At least 90% of R-M124 individuals are located in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Manoukian&quot; /&gt; It is also reported in [[Caucasus]] and [[Central Asia]] at lower frequency. A genetic study by Mondal et al. 2017 concluded that [[Haplogroup R2]] originated in northern India and was already present before the Steppe migration.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Mondal|first1=Mayukh|last2=Bergström|first2=Anders|last3=Xue|first3=Yali|last4=Calafell|first4=Francesc|last5=Laayouni|first5=Hafid|last6=Casals|first6=Ferran|last7=Majumder|first7=Partha P.|last8=Tyler-Smith|first8=Chris|last9=Bertranpetit|first9=Jaume|s2cid=3725426|date=1 May 2017|title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese|journal=Human Genetics|language=en|volume=136|issue=5|pages=499–510|doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0|pmid=28444560|issn=1432-1203|hdl=10230/34399|hdl-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> <br /> Among regional groups, it is found among [[West Bengal|West]] [[Bengalis]] (23%), [[New Delhi]] [[Hindu]]s (20%), [[Punjabis]] (5%) and [[Gujaratis]] (3%).&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt; Among tribal groups, Karmalis of [[West Bengal]] showed highest at 100%&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; followed by [[Lodha people|Lodhas]] (43%)&lt;ref name=Kumar2007 /&gt; to the east, while [[Bhil]] of [[Gujarat]] in the west were at 18%,&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt; [[Tharu people|Tharus]] of north showed it at 17%,&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt; [[Chenchu]] and [[Pallan]] of south were at 20% and 14% respectively.&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt; Among caste groups, high percentages are shown by [[Jaunpur district|Jaunpur]] [[Kshatriya]]s (87%), [[Kamma (caste)|kamma]] (73%), [[Bihar]] [[Yadav]] (50%), [[Khandayat]] (46%)and [[Kallar (caste)|Kallar]] (44%).&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> It is also significantly high in many [[Brahmin]] groups including [[Punjabi Brahmins]] (25%), [[Bengali Brahmins]] (22%), [[Konkanastha]] Brahmins (20%), [[Chaturvedi]]s (32%), [[Bhargava]]s (32%), [[Kashmiri Pandit]]s (14%) and [[Lingayat]] Brahmins (30%).&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> North Indian Muslims have a frequency of 19% ([[Sunni Islam|Sunni]]) and 13% ([[Shia islam|Shia]]),&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt; while [[Dawoodi Bohra|Dawoodi Bohra Muslim]] in the western state of Gujarat have a frequency of 16% and [[Mappila|Mappila Muslims]] of South India have a frequency of 5%.&lt;ref name=Eaaswarkhanth2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> The R2 haplogroup is found in 14% of the [[Burusho people]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Firasat2007&quot; /&gt; Among the [[Hunza people]] it is found at 18% while the [[Parsi]]s show it at 20%. It is also found in the northeastern part of [[Afghanistan]].{{citation needed|date=July 2016}}<br /> <br /> ==== Sri Lanka ====<br /> 38% of the [[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]] of Sri Lanka were found to be R2 positive according to a 2003 research.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maldives ====<br /> 12% of the [[Maldivian people]] of Maldives are found to have R2.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Nepal ====<br /> In Nepal, R2 percentages range from 2% to 26% within different groups under various studies. [[Newar]]s show a significantly high frequency of 26% while people of [[Kathmandu]] show it at 10%.<br /> <br /> == Reconstructing South Asian population history ==<br /> The {{harvtxt|Indian Genome Variation Consortium|2008}}, divides the population of South Asia into four ethnolinguistic (not genetic) groups: [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]], [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]], [[Tibeto-Burman languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and [[Austroasiatic languages|Austro-Asiatic]].&lt;ref&gt;<br /> {{Cite web |url=http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf |title=The Place of the Indian mtDNA Variants in the Global Network of Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World |access-date=28 September 2011 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120308154249/http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf |archive-date=8 March 2012 |url-status=live }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;<br /> {{cite web|url=http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=2-16|title=Ethnologue report for Indo-European|publisher=Ethnologue.com|access-date=24 November 2015|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20121015090404/http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=2-16|archive-date=15 October 2012|url-status=live}}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Baldi|first=Philip| name-list-style = vanc |author-link=Philip Baldi|title=Linguistic Change and Reconstruction Methodology|publisher=Walter de Gruyter|year=1990|isbn=978-3-11-011908-4|page=342}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfnp|Burling|2003|pp=174–178}}&lt;ref&gt;<br /> Bradley (2012) notes, ''MK in the wider sense including the Munda languages of eastern South Asia is also known as Austroasiatic.''[https://www.academia.edu/1542763/Languages_and_Language_Families_in_China Languages and Language Families in China] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170430061616/http://www.academia.edu/1542763/Languages_and_Language_Families_in_China |date=30 April 2017 }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; The molecular anthropology studies use three different type of markers: Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation which is maternally inherited and highly polymorphic, Y Chromosome variation which involves uniparental transmission along the male lines, and Autosomal DNA variation.&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt;{{rp|04}}<br /> <br /> === mtDNA variation ===<br /> Most of the studies based on mtDNA variation have reported genetic unity of South Asian populations across language, caste and tribal groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar&quot;&gt;<br /> {{cite book|last=Singh|first=Ashok Kumar| name-list-style = vanc |title=Science &amp; Technology For Upsc|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=CzV1MgFH6oMC&amp;pg=PA595|year=2007|publisher=Tata McGraw-Hill Education|isbn=978-0-07-065548-5|page=595|access-date=24 May 2016|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140103134039/http://books.google.com/books?id=CzV1MgFH6oMC&amp;pg=PA595|archive-date=3 January 2014|url-status=live}}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; It is likely that haplogroup M was brought to Asia from East Africa along the southern route by earliest migration wave 78,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to [[Toomas Kivisild|Kivisild]] et al. (1999), &quot;Minor overlaps with lineages described in other Eurasian populations clearly demonstrate that recent immigrations have had very little impact on the innate structure of the maternal [[gene pool]] of South Asians. Despite the variations found within India, these populations stem from a limited number of founder lineages. These lineages were most likely introduced to South Asia during the Middle Palaeolithic, before the peopling of Europe 48,000 years ago and perhaps the Old World in general.&quot;&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b /&gt; Basu et al. (2003) also emphasises underlying unity of female lineages in India.&lt;ref name=Basu2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Y Chromosome variation ===<br /> Conclusions based on Y Chromosome variation have been more varied than those based on mtDNA variation. While {{harvtxt|Kivisild et al.|2003}} proposes an ancient and shared genetic heritage of male lineages in South Asia, Bamshad et al. (2001) suggests an affinity between South Asian male lineages and west Eurasians proportionate to upper caste rank and places upper caste populations of southern Indian states closer to [[East Europeans]].&lt;ref name=Bamshad2001 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Basu et al. (2003) concludes that Austro–Asiatic tribal populations entered India first from the Northwest corridor and much later some of them through Northeastern corridor.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2003&quot; /&gt; Whereas, Kumar et al. (2007) analysed 25 South Asian Austro-Asiatic tribes and found strong paternal genetic link among the sub-linguistic groups of the South Asian Austro-Asiatic populations.&lt;ref name=Kumar2007 /&gt; Mukherjee et al. (2001) places Pakistanis and North Indians between west Asian and Central Asian populations,&lt;ref name=Mukherjee2001 /&gt; whereas Cordaux et al. (2004) argues that the Indian caste populations are closer to Central Asian populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot; /&gt; Sahoo et al. (2006) and Sengupta et al. (2006) suggest that Indian caste populations have not been subject to any recent admixtures.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; Sanghamitra Sahoo concludes his study with:&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> {{Quote|It is not necessary, based on the current evidence, to look beyond South Asia for the origins of the paternal heritage of the majority of Indians at the time of the onset of settled agriculture. The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through the northwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny. Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a, and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the South Asia are rejected, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H. Of the others, only J2 indicates an unambiguous recent external contribution, from West Asia rather than Central Asia. The current distributions of haplogroup frequencies are, with the exception of the lineages, predominantly driven by geographical, rather than cultural determinants. Ironically, it is in the northeast of India, among the TB groups that there is clear-cut evidence for large-scale demic diffusion traceable by genes, culture, and language, but apparently not by agriculture.}}<br /> <br /> Closest neighbor analysis done by Mondal et al. 2017 concluded that Indian Y-lineages are close to southern [[Europe]]an populations and the time of divergence between the two predated Steppe migration.&quot;:&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Mondal |first1=Mayukh |last2=Bergström |first2=Anders |last3=Xue |first3=Yali |last4=Calafell |first4=Francesc |last5=Laayouni |first5=Hafid |last6=Casals |first6=Ferran |last7=Majumder |first7=Partha P. |last8=Tyler-Smith |first8=Chris |last9=Bertranpetit |first9=Jaume |s2cid=3725426 |title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese |journal=Human Genetics |date=25 April 2017 |volume=136 |issue=5 |pages=499–510 |doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0 |pmid=28444560 |hdl=10230/34399 |hdl-access=free }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{Quote|text=These results suggest that the European-related ancestry in Indian populations might be much older and more complex than anticipated, and might originate from the first wave of agriculturists or even earlier|sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> === Autosomal DNA variation ===<br /> <br /> ====AASI-ANI-ASI====<br /> Results of studies based upon autosomal DNA variation have also been varied. In a major study (2009) using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers, Reich hypothesized that the modern South Asian population was the result of admixture between two genetically divergent ancestral populations dating from the post-Holocene era. These two &quot;reconstructed&quot; ancient populations he termed &quot;Ancestral South Indians&quot; (ASI) and &quot;Ancestral North Indians&quot; (ANI). According to Reich: &quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers, suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot; While the ANI is genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians and Europeans, the ASI is not closely related to groups outside of the subcontinent. As no &quot;ASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] [[Onge people|Onge]] are used as an (imperfect) proxy of ASI (according to Reich et al., the Andamanese, though distinct from them, are the closest living population to ASI). According to Reich et al., both ANI and ASI ancestry are found all over the subcontinent (in both northern and southern India) in varying proportions, and that &quot;ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich2009&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the ASI, though not closely related to any living group, are &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. however suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI, causing the modeled relationship. The study concluded that &quot;almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West-Eurasians in PCA (referred to as &quot;Indian cline&quot;)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2013 study by Chaubey using the single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP), shows that the genome of Andamanese people (Onge) is closer to those of other Oceanic Negrito groups than to that of South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|last1=Chaubey|first1=Gyaneshwer|last2=Endicott|first2=Phillip|date=June 2013|title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia|url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7|journal=Human Biology|volume=85|issue=1–3|pages=153–172|doi=10.3378/027.085.0307|pmid=24297224|s2cid=7774927}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. 2016, further analysis revealed that the genomic structure of mainland Indian populations is best explained by contributions from four ancestral components. In addition to the ANI and ASI, Basu et. al (2016) identified two East Asian ancestral components in mainland India that are major for the Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribals and the Tibeto-Burman speakers, which they denoted as AAA (for &quot;Ancestral Austro-Asiatic&quot;) and ATB (for &quot;Ancestral Tibeto-Burman&quot;) respectively. The study also infers that the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which &quot;was found to be coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations&quot; but more distant from South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The cline of admixture between the ANI and ASI lineages is dated to the period of c. 4.2–1.9 kya by Moorjani et al. (2013), corresponding to the Indian Bronze Age, and associated by the authors with the process of deurbanisation of the [[Indus Valley Civilization]] and the population shift to the Gangetic system in the incipient Indian Iron Age.&lt;ref name=&quot;Moorjani2013&quot; /&gt; Basu et al. (2003) suggests that &quot;Dravidian speakers were possibly widespread throughout India before the arrival of the Indo-European-speaking nomads&quot; and that &quot;formation of populations by fission that resulted in founder and drift effects have left their imprints on the genetic structures of contemporary populations&quot;.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2003&quot; /&gt; The geneticist PP Majumder (2010) has recently argued that the findings of Reich et al. (2009) are in remarkable concordance with previous research using mtDNA and Y-DNA:&lt;ref name=&quot;Majumder2010&quot; /&gt;<br /> {{Quote|Central Asian populations are supposed to have been major contributors to the Indian gene pool, particularly to the northern Indian gene pool, and the migrants had supposedly moved into India through what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan. Using [[mitochondrial DNA]] variation data collated from various studies, we have shown that populations of Central Asia and Pakistan show the lowest coefficient of genetic differentiation with the north Indian populations, a higher differentiation with the south Indian populations, and the highest with the northeast Indian populations. Northern Indian populations are genetically closer to Central Asians than populations of other geographical regions of India... . Consistent with the above findings, a recent study using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers has found a north to south gradient of genetic proximity of Indian populations to western Eurasians. This feature is likely related to the proportions of ancestry derived from the western Eurasian gene pool, which, as this study has shown, is greater in populations inhabiting northern India than those inhabiting southern India.}}<br /> <br /> Chaubey et al. 2015 detected a distinctive East Asian ancestral component, mainly restricted to specific populations in the foothills of Himalaya and northeastern part of India. Highest frequency of the component is observed among the Tibeto-Burmese speaking groups of northeast India and was also detected in Andamanese populations at 32%, with substantial presence also among Austroasiatic speakers. It is found to be largely absent in Indo-European and Dravidian speakers, except in some specific ethnic groups living in the Himalayan foothills and central-south India.&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |title=East Asian ancestry in India |date=January 2015 |journal=Indian Journal of Physical Anthropology and Human Genetics |volume=34 |issue=2 |pages=193–199 |url=https://serialsjournals.com/abstract/78963_2.pdf |quote=Here the analysis of genome wide data on Indian and East/Southeast Asian demonstrated their restricted distinctive ancestry in India mainly running along the foothills of Himalaya and northeastern part.}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;/ref&gt; The researchers however suggested that the East Asian ancestry (represented by the Han) measured in the studied Andamanese groups may actually reflect the capture of the affinity of the Andamanese with Melanesians and Malaysian Negritos (rather than true East Asian admixture),&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt; as a previous study by Chaubey et al. suggested &quot;a deep common ancestry&quot; between Andamanese, Melanesians and other Negrito groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt; and an affinity between Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians (as well as the Andamanese) with East Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |last2=Endicott |first2=Phillip |title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia |journal=Human Biology |date=June 2013 |volume=85 |issue=1–3 |pages=153–172 |doi=10.3378/027.085.0307 |pmid=24297224 |s2cid=7774927 |url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes &quot;The demographic impact of steppe related populations on South Asia was substantial, as the [[Mala (caste)|Mala]], a south Indian [[Dalit]] population with minimal Ancestral North Indian (ANI) ancestry still have ~ 18% [[steppe-related ancestry|steppe-related Yamnaya ancestry]], while the [[Kalash people|Kalash]] of Pakistan are inferred to have ~ 50% steppe-related Yamnaya ancestry, one of the highest percentage next to eastern Europeans at 51%.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Citation error. See inline comment how to fix. {{verify source |date=September 2019 |reason=This ref was deleted Special:Diff/909570260 by a bug in VisualEditor and later identified by a bot. The original cite can be found at Special:Permalink/909439483 (or in a rev close to it) in either cite #44 or cite #38 - find and verify the cite and replace this template with it (1). [[User:GreenC bot/Job 18]]}}&lt;/ref&gt; Lazaridis et al.'s 2016 study estimated (6.5–50.2%) steppe related admixture in South Asians. Lazaridis et al. further notes that &quot;A useful direction of future research is a more comprehensive sampling of ancient DNA from steppe populations, as well as populations of central Asia (east of Iran and south of the steppe), which may reveal more proximate sources of the ANI than the ones considered here, and of South Asia to determine the trajectory of population change in the area directly.<br /> <br /> Pathak et al. 2018 concluded that the [[Indo-European language|Indo-European]] speakers of [[Gangetic Plains]] and the [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speakers have significant [[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya Early-Middle Bronze Age]] (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry but no Middle-Late Bronze Age Steppe (Steppe_MLBA) ancestry. On the other hand, the &quot;North-Western Indian and Pakistani&quot; populations (PNWI) showed significant Steppe_MLBA ancestry along with Yamnaya (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry. The study also noted that ancient South Asian samples had significantly higher Steppe_MLBA than Steppe_EMBA (or Yamnaya). The study also suggested that the [[Ror]]s could be used as a proxy for the ANI.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pathak |first1=Ajai K. |last2=Kadian |first2=Anurag |last3=Kushniarevich |first3=Alena |last4=Montinaro |first4=Francesco |last5=Mondal |first5=Mayukh |last6=Ongaro |first6=Linda |last7=Singh |first7=Manvendra |last8=Kumar |first8=Pramod |last9=Rai |first9=Niraj |last10=Parik |first10=Jüri |last11=Metspalu |first11=Ene |last12=Rootsi |first12=Siiri |last13=Pagani |first13=Luca |last14=Kivisild |first14=Toomas |last15=Metspalu |first15=Mait |last16=Chaubey |first16=Gyaneshwer |last17=Villems |first17=Richard |title=The Genetic Ancestry of Modern Indus Valley Populations from Northwest India |journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics |date=December 2018 |volume=103 |issue=6 |pages=918–929 |doi=10.1016/j.ajhg.2018.10.022 |pmid=30526867 |pmc=6288199 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[David Reich (geneticist)|David Reich]] in his 2018 book ''[[Who We Are and How We Got Here]]'' states that the 2016 analyses found the ASI to have significant amounts of an ancestry component deriving from Iranian farmers (about 25% of their ancestry), with the remaining 75% of their ancestry deriving from native South Asian hunter-gatherers. He adds that ASI were unlikely the local hunter-gatherers of South Asia as previously established, but a population responsible for spreading agriculture throughout South Asia. In the case of the ANI, the Iranian farmer ancestry is 50%, with the rest being from steppe groups related to the Yamnaya.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last1=Reich |first1=David |title=Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the new science of the human past |date=2018 |publisher=OUP Oxford |isbn=978-0-19-257040-6 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=8NFeDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=Who+We+Are+and+How+We+Got+Here+asi&amp;pg=PT216 |access-date=2 March 2020 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}, similarly, conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI (ancient ancestral south Indian, i.e. hunter-gatherers sharing a distant root with the Andamanese, Australian Aboriginals, and East Asians); and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; (with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population).{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} The authors propose that the AASI indigenous hunter-gatherers represent a divergent branch that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge (Andamanese) and Australian Aboriginal ancestors separated from each other. It inferred, &quot;essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. (2019) however shows that modern South Asian populations are generally closest to West-Eurasians. They concluded that modern South Asians are basically a mixture of a native South Asian genetic component and a later-arriving West-Eurasian component (derived from both West Asia and the western Steppes). The authors also argue that the native South Asian genetic component is distinct from the Andamanese or East Asians, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect proxy. They propose that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (a group of predominantly ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians, as the Paniya are directly derived from the natives of South Asia, while the Onge may have received geneflow from other groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;auto&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from peoples related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers, with the Iranian-related ancestry being on average predominant. The samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI. The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;[[Steppe ancestry]]&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10|date = September 2019 | pmid = 31495572| pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Genetic distance between caste groups and tribes ====<br /> Studies by Watkins et al. (2005) and Kivisild et al. (2003) based on autosomal markers conclude that Indian caste and tribal populations have a common ancestry.&lt;ref name=&quot;kivisild2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Watkins2005 /&gt; Reddy et al. (2005) found fairly uniform allele frequency distributions across caste groups of southern [[Andhra Pradesh]], but significantly larger genetic distance between caste groups and tribes indicating [[genetic isolation]] of the tribes and castes.&lt;ref name=Reddy2005 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Viswanathan et al. (2004) in a study on genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India concludes, &quot;''Genetic differentiation was high and genetic distances were not significantly correlated with geographic distances. Genetic drift therefore probably played a significant role in shaping the patterns of genetic variation observed in southern Indian tribal populations.'' Otherwise, analyses of population relationships showed that all Indian and South Asian populations are still similar to one another, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and do not show any particular affinities to Africans. We conclude that the phenotypic similarities of some Indian groups to Africans ''do not'' reflect a close relationship between these groups, but are better explained by ''convergence''.&quot;&lt;ref name=Vishwanathan2004 /&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2011 study published in the [[American Journal of Human Genetics]]&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt; indicates that Indian ancestral components are the result of a more complex demographic history than was previously thought. According to the researchers, South Asia harbours two major ancestral components, one of which is spread at comparable frequency and genetic diversity in populations of Central Asia, West Asia and Europe; the other component is more restricted to South Asia. However, if one were to rule out the possibility of a large-scale Indo-Aryan migration, these findings suggest that the genetic affinities of both Indian ancestral components are the result of multiple gene flows over the course of thousands of years.&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt;&lt;!--{{Quote|Modeling of the observed haplotype diversities suggests that both Indian ancestry components are older than the purported Indo-Aryan invasion 3,500 YBP. Consistent with the results of pairwise genetic distances among world regions, Indians share more ancestry signals with West than with East Eurasians.}}--&gt;<br /> <br /> Narashimhan et al 2019 found Austroasiatic-speaking Munda tribals could not be modeled simply as mixture of ASI, AASI, ANI ancestry unlike other South Asians but required additional ancestry component from Southeast Asia. They were modeled as mixture of 48% AASI, 52% Austroasiatic-clad related to [[Nicobarese]] and 37% ASI ancestry, thus the ancestry profile of the Mundas provides an independent line of ancestry from Southeast Asia around the 3rd millennium BCE.&lt;ref&gt;Narashimhan et al 2019&lt;/ref&gt; Lipson et al. 2018 found similar admixture results in regard to Munda tribals stating ''&quot;we obtained a good fit with three ancestry components: one western Eurasian, one deep eastern Eurasian (interpreted as an indigenous South Asian lineage), and one from the Austroasiatic clade&quot;''.&lt;ref&gt;lipson et al 2018&lt;/ref&gt; Lipson et al. 2018 further found the Austroasiatic source clad (proportion 35%) in Munda tribals was inferred to be closest to [[Mlabri]]. &lt;ref name=&quot;Lipson et al 2018&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Lipson |first1=Mark |last2=Cheronet |first2=Olivia |last3=Mallick |first3=Swapan |last4=Rohland |first4=Nadin |last5=Oxenham |first5=Marc |last6=Pietrusewsky |first6=Michael |last7=Oliver Pryce |first7=Thomas |last8=Willis |first8=Anna |last9=Matsumura |first9=Hirofumi |last10=Buckley |first10=Hallie |last11=Domett |first11=Kate |last12=Hai Nguyen |first12=Giang |last13=Hiep Trinh |first13=Hoang |last14=Kyaw |first14=Aung Aung |last15=Win |first15=Tin Tin |last16=Pradier |first16=Baptiste |last17=Broomandkhoshbacht |first17=Nasreen |last18=Candilio |first18=Francesca |last19=Changmai |first19=Piya |last20=Fernandes |first20=Daniel |last21=Ferry |first21=Matthew |last22=Gamarra |first22=Beatriz |last23=Harney |first23=Eadaoin |last24=Kampuansai |first24=Jatupol |last25=Kutanan |first25=Megan |last26=Novak |first26=Mario |last27=Oppenheimer |first27=Jonas |last28=Sirak |first28=Kendra |last29=Stewardson |first29=Kristin |last30=Zhang |first30=Zhao |last31=Flegontov |first31=Pavel |last32=Pinhasi |first32=Ron |last33=Reich |first33=David |title=Ancient genomes document multiple waves of migration in Southeast Asian prehistory |journal=Science |date=06 July 2018 |volume=361 |issue=6397 |pages=92-95 |doi=DOI: 10.1126/science.aat3188 |url=https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/92 |access-date=06 July 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt; Singh et al 2020 similarly found Austroasiatic speakers in South Asia fall out of the South Asian cline due to their Southeast Asian genetic affinity. <br /> &lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pratap Singh |first1=Prajjval |last2=Vishwakarma |first2=Shani |last3=Nahar Sultana |first3=Gazi Nurun |last4=Pilvar |first4=Arno |last5=Karmin |first5=Monika |last6=Rootsi |first6=Siiri |last7=Villems |first7=Richard |last8=Metspalu |first8=Mait |last9=M. Behar |first9=Doron |last10=Kivisild |first10=Toomas |last11=Van Driem |first11=George |last12=Chaubey |first12=Gyaneshwer |title=Dissecting the paternal founders of Mundari (Austroasiatic) speakers associated with the language dispersal in South Asia |journal=European Journal of Human Genetics |date=21 October 2020 |volume=172 |pages=1-5 |doi=https://doi.org/10.1038/s41431-020-00745-1 |url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-00745-1#citeas |access-date=21 October 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{Portal|Evolutionary biology}}<br /> *[[Archaeogenetics]]<br /> *[[Ethnic groups of South Asia]]<br /> *[[List of ethnolinguistic regions of South Asia]]<br /> *[[Peopling of India]]<br /> *[[Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of South Asia]]<br /> *[[Genetic studies on Gujarati people]]<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{Reflist|colwidth=30em|refs=<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Baig MM, Khan AA, Kulkarni KM | title = Mitochondrial DNA diversity in tribal and caste groups of Maharashtra (India) and its implication on their genetic origins | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 5 | pages = 453–60 | date = September 2004 | pmid = 15469422 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2004.00108.x | s2cid = 23032872 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Eaaswarkhanth2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Eaaswarkhanth M, Haque I, Ravesh Z, Romero IG, Meganathan PR, Dubey B, Khan FA, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Tyler-Smith C, Singh L, Thangaraj K | display-authors = 6 | title = Traces of sub-Saharan and Middle Eastern lineages in Indian Muslim populations | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 3 | pages = 354–63 | date = March 2010 | pmid = 19809480 | pmc = 2859343 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.168 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Firasat2007&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Firasat S, Khaliq S, Mohyuddin A, Papaioannou M, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Ayub Q | title = Y-chromosomal evidence for a limited Greek contribution to the Pathan population of Pakistan | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 15 | issue = 1 | pages = 121–6 | date = January 2007 | pmid = 17047675 | pmc = 2588664 | doi = 10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201726 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot;&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html |title=Y-DNA Haplogroup H and its Subclades – 2015 |access-date=11 October 2015 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151101022048/http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html |archive-date=1 November 2015 |url-status=live }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a&gt;{{citation |first1=Toomas |last1=Kivisild |author-link1=Toomas Kivisild |first2=Surinder S. |last2=Papiha |first3=Siiri |last3=Rootsi |first4=Jüri |last4=Parik |first5=Katrin |last5=Kaldma |first6=Maere |last6=Reidla |first7=Sirle |last7=Laos |first8=Mait |last8=Metspalu |first9=Gerli |last9=Pielberg |first10=Maa rja |last10=Adojaan |first11=Ene |last11=Metspalu |first12=Sarabjit S. |last12=Mastana |first13=Yiming |last13=Wang |first14=Mukaddes |last14=Golge |first15=Halil |last15=Demirtas |first16=Eckart |last16=Schnakenberg |first17=Gian Franco |last17=de Stefano |first18=Tarekegn |last18=Geberhiwot |first19=Mireille |last19=Claustres |first20=Richard |last20=Villems | name-list-style = vanc | display-authors = 6 |title=An Indian Ancestry: a Key for Understanding Human Diversity in Europe and Beyond |year=2000 |publisher=McDonald Institute Monographs | url= http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf |access-date=11 November 2005 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20060219054924/http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf |archive-date=19 February 2006 |url-status=live}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kumar2007&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kumar V, Reddy AN, Babu JP, Rao TN, Langstieh BT, Thangaraj K, Reddy AG, Singh L, Reddy BM | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 7 | pages = 47 | date = March 2007 | pmid = 17389048 | pmc = 1851701 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Manoukian&quot;&gt;Manoukian, Jean-Grégoire (2006), &quot;[http://www.ethnoancestry.com/index_files/index_data/Haplogroup_R2_Manoukian.pdf A Synthesis of Haplogroup R2 – 2006] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151001014558/http://www.ethnoancestry.com/index_files/index_data/Haplogroup_R2_Manoukian.pdf |date=1 October 2015 }}.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=mcDonald&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf |title=Y Haplogroups of the World, 2005, McDonald |access-date=24 October 2006 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20040728005528/http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf |archive-date=28 July 2004 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Metspalu2011&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Mirabal2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mirabal S, Regueiro M, Cadenas AM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA, Verbenko DA, Limborska SA, Herrera RJ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome distribution within the geo-linguistic landscape of northwestern Russia | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 17 | issue = 10 | pages = 1260–73 | date = October 2009 | pmid = 19259129 | pmc = 2986641 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.6 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Moorjani2013&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | author7-link = Bonnie Berger }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Reddy2005&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Reddy BM, Naidu VM, Madhavi VK, Thangaraj LK, Kumar V, Langstieh BT, Venkatramana P, Reddy AG, Singh L | s2cid = 18446485 | display-authors = 6 | title = Microsatellite diversity in Andhra Pradesh, India: genetic stratification versus social stratification | journal = Human Biology | volume = 77 | issue = 6 | pages = 803–23 | date = December 2005 | pmid = 16715839 | doi = 10.1353/hub.2006.0018 | url = http://dspace.nehu.ac.in/handle/1/1547 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Sahoo2006&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sahoo S, Singh A, Himabindu G, Banerjee J, Sitalaximi T, Gaikwad S, Trivedi R, Endicott P, Kivisild T, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kashyap VK | display-authors = 6 | title = A prehistory of Indian Y chromosomes: evaluating demic diffusion scenarios | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 103 | issue = 4 | pages = 843–8 | date = January 2006 | pmid = 16415161 | pmc = 1347984 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.0507714103 | bibcode = 2006PNAS..103..843S }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Sharma2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sharma S, Rai E, Sharma P, Jena M, Singh S, Darvishi K, Bhat AK, Bhanwer AJ, Tiwari PK, Bamezai RN | s2cid = 22162114 | display-authors = 6 | title = The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 54 | issue = 1 | pages = 47–55 | date = January 2009 | pmid = 19158816 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2008.2 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Puente XS, Velasco G, Gutiérrez-Fernández A, Bertranpetit J, King MC, López-Otín C | title = Comparative analysis of cancer genes in the human and chimpanzee genomes | journal = BMC Genomics | volume = 7 | pages = 15 | date = January 2006 | pmid = 16438707 | pmc = 1382208 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2164-7-15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Thangaraj2010&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thangaraj K, Naidu BP, Crivellaro F, Tamang R, Upadhyay S, Sharma VK, Reddy AG, Walimbe SR, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = The influence of natural barriers in shaping the genetic structure of Maharashtra populations | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 5 | issue = 12 | pages = e15283 | date = December 2010 | pmid = 21187967 | pmc = 3004917 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0015283 | editor1-last = Cordaux | bibcode = 2010PLoSO...515283T | editor1-first = Richard }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thanseem I, Thangaraj K, Chaubey G, Singh VK, Bhaskar LV, Reddy BM, Reddy AG, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic affinities among the lower castes and tribal groups of India: inference from Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 7 | pages = 42 | date = August 2006 | pmid = 16893451 | pmc = 1569435 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-7-42}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Tripathy2008&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Tripathy |first1=Vikal |last2=Nirmala |first2=A. |last3=Reddy |first3=B. Mohan |s2cid=12763485 |title=Trends in Molecular Anthropological Studies in India |journal=International Journal of Human Genetics |date=4 September 2017 |volume=8 |issue=1–2 |pages=1–20 |doi=10.1080/09723757.2008.11886015 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Vishwanathan2004&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | s2cid = 24230856 | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Watkins2005&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Watkins WS, Prasad BV, Naidu JM, Rao BB, Bhanu BA, Ramachandran B, Das PK, Gai PB, Reddy PC, Reddy PG, Sethuraman M, Bamshad MJ, Jorde LB | display-authors = 6 | title = Diversity and divergence among the tribal populations of India | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 69 | issue = Pt 6 | pages = 680–92 | date = November 2005 | pmid = 16266407 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2005.00200.x | s2cid = 31907598 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Zhao2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao Z, Khan F, Borkar M, Herrera R, Agrawal S | title = Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: a study of 560 Y chromosomes | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 36 | issue = 1 | pages = 46–59 | year = 2009 | pmid = 19058044 | pmc = 2755252 | doi = 10.1080/03014460802558522 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Bamshad2001&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Bamshad M, Kivisild T, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Ricker CE, Rao BB, Naidu JM, Prasad BV, Reddy PG, Rasanayagam A, Papiha SS, Villems R, Redd AJ, Hammer MF, Nguyen SV, Carroll ML, Batzer MA, Jorde LB | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence on the origins of Indian caste populations | journal = Genome Research | volume = 11 | issue = 6 | pages = 994–1004 | date = June 2001 | pmid = 11381027 | pmc = 311057 | doi = 10.1101/gr.GR-1733RR }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Basu2003&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Mukherjee N, Roy S, Sengupta S, Banerjee S, Chakraborty M, Dey B, Roy M, Roy B, Bhattacharyya NP, Roychoudhury S, Majumder PP | display-authors = 6 | title = Ethnic India: a genomic view, with special reference to peopling and structure | journal = Genome Research | volume = 13 | issue = 10 | pages = 2277–90 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 14525929 | pmc = 403703 | doi = 10.1101/gr.1413403 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild1999a&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Kivisild |first1=T. |last2=Bamshad |first2=M.J. |last3=Kaldma |first3=K. |last4=Metspalu |first4=M. |last5=Metspalu |first5=E. |last6=Reidla |first6=M. |last7=Laos |first7=S. |last8=Parik |first8=J. |last9=Watkins |first9=W.S. |last10=Dixon |first10=M.E. |last11=Papiha |first11=S.S. |last12=Mastana |first12=S.S. |last13=Mir |first13=M.R. |last14=Ferak |first14=V. |last15=Villems |first15=R. |s2cid=2821966 |title=Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages |journal=Current Biology |date=November 1999 |volume=9 |issue=22 |pages=1331–1334 |doi=10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 |pmid=10574762 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha S, Villems R |author-link1=Toomas Kivisild |doi=10.1007/978-1-4615-4263-6_11 | chapter =The Place of the Indian Mitochondrial DNA Variants in the Global Network of Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World |title =Genomic Diversity |year=1999 |isbn=978-1-4613-6914-1 |pages=135–152 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Underhill2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Myres NM, Rootsi S, Metspalu M, Zhivotovsky LA, King RJ, Lin AA, Chow CE, Semino O, Battaglia V, Kutuev I, Järve M, Chaubey G, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Mehdi SQ, Sengupta S, Rogaev EI, Khusnutdinova EK, Pshenichnov A, Balanovsky O, Balanovska E, Jeran N, Augustin DH, Baldovic M, Herrera RJ, Thangaraj K, Singh V, Singh L, Majumder P, Rudan P, Primorac D, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 4 | pages = 479–84 | date = April 2010 | pmid = 19888303 | pmc = 2987245 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.194 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Majumder2010&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Majumder PP | s2cid = 1490419 | title = The human genetic history of South Asia | journal = Current Biology | volume = 20 | issue = 4 | pages = R184-7 | date = February 2010 | pmid = 20178765 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2009.11.053 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Mukherjee2001&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | s2cid = 13267463 | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/BF02717908 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Reich2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> }}<br /> <br /> === Further reading ===<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Allikas A, Ord D, Kurg R, Kivi S, Ustav M | title = Roles of the hinge region and the DNA binding domain of the bovine papillomavirus type 1 E2 protein in initiation of DNA replication | journal = Virus Research | volume = 75 | issue = 2 | pages = 95–106 | date = June 2001 | pmid = 11325464 | doi = 10.1016/S0168-1702(01)00219-2 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Behar DM, Garrigan D, Kaplan ME, Mobasher Z, Rosengarten D, Karafet TM, Quintana-Murci L, Ostrer H, Skorecki K, Hammer MF | s2cid = 10310338 | display-authors = 6 | title = Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome variation in Ashkenazi Jewish and host non-Jewish European populations | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 4 | pages = 354–65 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 14740294 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1073-7 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Bhattacharyya NP, Basu P, Das M, Pramanik S, Banerjee R, Roy B, Roychoudhury S, Majumder PP | display-authors = 6 | title = Negligible male gene flow across ethnic boundaries in India, revealed by analysis of Y-chromosomal DNA polymorphisms | journal = Genome Research | volume = 9 | issue = 8 | pages = 711–9 | date = August 1999 | pmid = 10447506 | doi = 10.1101/gr.9.8.711 | url = http://genome.cshlp.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&amp;pmid=10447506 | doi-broken-date = 3 February 2021 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Cann RL | s2cid = 19367408 | title = Genetic clues to dispersal in human populations: retracing the past from the present | journal = Science | volume = 291 | issue = 5509 | pages = 1742–8 | date = March 2001 | pmid = 11249820 | doi = 10.1126/science.1058948 | bibcode = 2001Sci...291.1742C }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Cinnioğlu C, King R, Kivisild T, Kalfoğlu E, Atasoy S, Cavalleri GL, Lillie AS, Roseman CC, Lin AA, Prince K, Oefner PJ, Shen P, Semino O, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA | s2cid = 10763736 | display-authors = 6 | title = Excavating Y-chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 2 | pages = 127–48 | date = January 2004 | pmid = 14586639 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1031-4 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Das B, Chauhan PS, Seshadri M | s2cid = 12835244 | title = Minimal sharing of Y-chromosome STR haplotypes among five endogamous population groups from western and southwestern India | journal = Human Biology | volume = 76 | issue = 5 | pages = 743–63 | date = October 2004 | pmid = 15757245 | doi = 10.1353/hub.2005.0003 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last1 = Hemphill | first1 = Brian E. | last2 = Christensen | first2 = Alexander F. | name-list-style = vanc | title = The Oxus Civilization as a Link between East and West: A Non-Metric Analysis of Bronze Age Bactrain Biological Affinities | date = 3 November 1994 | location = Madison, Wisconsin | page = 13}} (paper read at the South Asia Conference)<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Jobling MA, Tyler-Smith C | s2cid = 13508130 | title = The human Y chromosome: an evolutionary marker comes of age | journal = Nature Reviews. Genetics | volume = 4 | issue = 8 | pages = 598–612 | date = August 2003 | pmid = 12897772 | doi = 10.1038/nrg1124 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Rootsi S, Metspalu M, Mastana S, Kaldma K, Parik J, Metspalu E, Adojaan M, Tolk HV, Stepanov V, Gölge M, Usanga E, Papiha SS, Cinnioğlu C, King R, Cavalli-Sforza L, Underhill PA, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic heritage of the earliest settlers persists both in Indian tribal and caste populations | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 2 | pages = 313–32 | date = February 2003 | pmid = 12536373 | pmc = 379225 | doi = 10.1086/346068 | author-link1 = Toomas Kivisild }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Patowary A, Purkanti R, Singh M, Chauhan RK, Bhartiya D, Dwivedi OP, Chauhan G, Bharadwaj D, Sivasubbu S, Scaria V | s2cid = 11466942 | display-authors = 6 | title = Systematic analysis and functional annotation of variations in the genome of an Indian individual | journal = Human Mutation | volume = 33 | issue = 7 | pages = 1133–40 | date = July 2012 | pmid = 22461382 | doi = 10.1002/humu.22091 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Rootsi S, Magri C, Kivisild T, Benuzzi G, Help H, Bermisheva M, Kutuev I, Barać L, Pericić M, Balanovsky O, Pshenichnov A, Dion D, Grobei M, Zhivotovsky LA, Battaglia V, Achilli A, Al-Zahery N, Parik J, King R, Cinnioğlu C, Khusnutdinova E, Rudan P, Balanovska E, Scheffrahn W, Simonescu M, Brehm A, Goncalves R, Rosa A, Moisan JP, Chaventre A, Ferak V, Füredi S, Oefner PJ, Shen P, Beckman L, Mikerezi I, Terzić R, Primorac D, Cambon-Thomsen A, Krumina A, Torroni A, Underhill PA, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Villems R, Semino O | display-authors = 6 | title = Phylogeography of Y-chromosome haplogroup I reveals distinct domains of prehistoric gene flow in europe | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 75 | issue = 1 | pages = 128–37 | date = July 2004 | pmid = 15162323 | pmc = 1181996 | doi = 10.1086/422196 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Qamar R, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Helgason A, Mazhar K, Mansoor A, Zerjal T, Tyler-Smith C, Mehdi SQ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 5 | pages = 1107–24 | date = May 2002 | pmid = 11898125 | pmc = 447589 | doi = 10.1086/339929 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Semino O, Magri C, Benuzzi G, Lin AA, Al-Zahery N, Battaglia V, Maccioni L, Triantaphyllidis C, Shen P, Oefner PJ, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Torroni A, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS | display-authors = 6 | title = Origin, diffusion, and differentiation of Y-chromosome haplogroups E and J: inferences on the neolithization of Europe and later migratory events in the Mediterranean area | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 74 | issue = 5 | pages = 1023–34 | date = May 2004 | pmid = 15069642 | pmc = 1181965 | doi = 10.1086/386295 }}<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> == Sources ==<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * {{cite journal | author = Indian Genome Variation Consortium | s2cid = 21473349 | title = Genetic landscape of the people of India: a canvas for disease gene exploration | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 87 | issue = 1 | pages = 3–20 | date = April 2008 | pmid = 18560169 | doi = 10.1007/s12041-008-0002-x }}<br /> &lt;!-- E --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Endicott |first1=Phillip |last2=Metspalu |first2=Mait |last3=Kivisild |first3=Toomas | name-list-style = vanc |chapter=Genetic evidence on modern human dispersals in South Asia: Y chromose and mitochondrial DNA perspectives |editor1=Michael D. Petraglia |editor2=Bridget Allchin |title=The Evolution and History of Human Populations in South Asia |publisher=Springer |year=2007 |isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 |pages=201–228 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC&amp;pg=PA201}}<br /> &lt;!-- H --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Hemphill |first1=B.E. |last2=Lukacs |first2=J.R. |last3=Kennedy |first3=K.A.R. | name-list-style = vanc |chapter=Biological Adaptations and Affinities of Bronze Age Harappans |editor1-first=Richard H. |editor1-last=Meadow |title=Harappa excavations 1986–1990: a multidisciplinary approach to third millennium urbanism |year=1991 |pages=137–82 |isbn=978-0-9629110-1-9 }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{Cite book | last1 = Kennedy | first1 = Kenneth A.R. | name-list-style = vanc | author-link = Kenneth A.R. Kennedy | chapter = A Reassessment of the Theories of Racial Origins of the People of the Indus Valley Civilization from Recent Anthropological Data | title = Studies in the Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology of South Asia | pages = 99–107 | editor1-last = Kennedy | editor1-first = Kenneth A.R. | editor2-last = Possehl | editor2-first = Gregory L. | publisher = Humanities Press | year = 1984 | location = [[Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey|Atlantic Highlands, NJ]]}}&lt;!--? Oxford: American Institute of Indian Studies--&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Kennedy |first=Kenneth A. R. | name-list-style = vanc |year=1995 |chapter=Have Aryans been identified in the prehistoric skeletal record from South Asia? |editor=George Erdosy |title=The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia |publisher=Walter de Gruyter |isbn=978-3-11-014447-5 |pages=49–54 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=A6ZRShEIFwMC&amp;pg=PA49}}<br /> * {{Cite book | last = Kivisild | first = Toomas | name-list-style = vanc | title = The origins of southern and western Eurasian populations: an mtDNA study | publisher = Tartu University, Estonia | year = 2000b | url = http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000PhD.pdf }} (PhD)<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Mascarenhas DD, Raina A, Aston CE, Sanghera DK | title = Genetic and Cultural Reconstruction of the Migration of an Ancient Lineage | journal = BioMed Research International | volume = 2015 | pages = 651415 | year = 2015 | pmid = 26491681 | pmc = 4605215 | doi = 10.1155/2015/651415 }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | s2cid =89658279 | name-list-style = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | biorxiv =10.1101/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 | hdl =21.11116/0000-0001-E7B3-0 | hdl-access =free }}<br /> &lt;!-- O --&gt;<br /> * {{Cite book | last = Oppenheimer | first = Stephen | name-list-style = vanc | author-link = Stephen Oppenheimer | title = The Real Eve: Modern Man's Journey out of Africa | year = 2003 | location = New York | publisher = Carroll and Graf Publishers | isbn = 978-0-7867-1192-5}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation | last1 =Pamjav | s2cid =4820868 | title =Brief communication: New Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1 | journal =American Journal of Physical Anthropology| volume= 149| issue= 4| pages= 611–615|date= December 2012 | doi=10.1002/ajpa.22167 | pmid=23115110}}<br /> * {{Cite book | year = 2000a | title = An Indian Ancestry: a Key for Understanding Human Diversity in Europe and Beyond | editor1-last = Renfrew | editor1-first = Colin | editor2-last = Boyle | editor2-first = Katie | name-list-style = vanc | url = http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf | isbn= 978-1-902937-08-3}}<br /> &lt;!-- S --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Silva M, Oliveira M, Vieira D, Brandão A, Rito T, Pereira JB, Fraser RM, Hudson B, Gandini F, Edwards C, Pala M, Koch J, Wilson JF, Pereira L, Richards MB, Soares P | display-authors = 6 | title = A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 17 | issue = 1 | pages = 88 | date = March 2017 | pmid = 28335724 | pmc = 5364613 | doi = 10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 |ref={{sfnref|Silva et al.|2017}}}}<br /> &lt;!-- U --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA | s2cid = 15527457 | title = Inferring human history: clues from Y-chromosome haplotypes | journal = Cold Spring Harbor Symposia on Quantitative Biology | volume = 68 | pages = 487–93 | year = 2003 | pmid = 15338652 | doi = 10.1101/sqb.2003.68.487 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Poznik GD, Rootsi S, Järve M, Lin AA, Wang J, Passarelli B, Kanbar J, Myres NM, King RJ, Di Cristofaro J, Sahakyan H, Behar DM, Kushniarevich A, Sarac J, Saric T, Rudan P, Pathak AK, Chaubey G, Grugni V, Semino O, Yepiskoposyan L, Bahmanimehr A, Farjadian S, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Herrera RJ, Chiaroni J, Bustamante CD, Quake SR, Kivisild T, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 23 | issue = 1 | pages = 124–31 | date = January 2015 | pmid = 24667786 | pmc = 4266736 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2014.50 }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | vauthors = Wells S |year=2003 |title=The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | url = https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well | url-access = registration |publisher=Princeton University Press}}<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> {{Wikiquote}}<br /> * [http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/NewWebSurnames041008.html ''Introduction to Haplogroups and Haplotypes''], Mark A. Jobling, University of Leicester. [http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/SurnamesForWeb.pdf ]<br /> * [http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ Journey of Man: Peopling of the World], Bradshaw Foundation, in association with [[Stephen Oppenheimer]].<br /> *[http://igvdb.res.in/ Indian Genome Variation Database] [[Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology]]<br /> * [http://sites.google.com/site/r2dnainfo/R2-Home/r2-dna/r2-frequency/r2-frequencies-worldwide?pli=1 List of R2 frequency]<br /> * [http://maldives-ancestry.blogspot.in/2013/05/maldivian-ancestry-in-light-of-genetics.html Maldives]<br /> <br /> {{Human genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Human Y-DNA haplogroups|+]]<br /> [[Category:Human genetics|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Modern human genetic history|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Genetics by country|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:South Asia]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetics_and_archaeogenetics_of_South_Asia&diff=1012688655 Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia 2021-03-17T19:27:21Z <p>Ilber8000: Fixed broken citation</p> <hr /> <div>{{EngvarB|date=November 2019}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=March 2020}}<br /> '''Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia''' is the study of the [[genetics]] and [[archaeogenetics]] of the [[ethnic groups of South Asia]]. It aims at uncovering these groups' [[genetic history]]. The geographic position of South Asia makes its biodiversity important for the study of the early dispersal of [[anatomically modern human]]s across [[Asia]].<br /> <br /> Studies based on Mitochondrial DNA ([[mtDNA]]) variations have reported genetic unity across various South Asian sub–populations, showing that most of the ancestral nodes of the phylogenetic tree of all the mtDNA types originated in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt; Conclusions of studies based on Y Chromosome variation and Autosomal DNA variation have been varied. Recent genome studies appear to show that most South Asians are descendants of two major ancestral components, one restricted to South Asia (''Ancestral South Indian'', derived from West-Eurasian[[Indus Valley Civilisation|IVC]]-people and a distinctive native South Asian population, which was distantly related to the Andamanese and East Asians), and the other component (''Ancestral North Indian,'' derived from West-Eurasian IVC-people and [[Pontic steppe|Pontic Steppe-pastoralists]], making them closely related to those in [[Central Asia]], [[West Asia]] and [[Europe]].&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Moorjani2013 /&gt;{{sfn|Silva et al.|2017}} Basu et al. (2016) identified two more ancestral components in mainland India, denoted as ''AAA'' and ''ATB'', that are major for the Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribals and the Tibeto-Burman speakers respectively. The study also infers that the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which &quot;was found to be coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations&quot; and distant from contemporary South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2016&quot;/&gt; Yelmen et al. 2019 concluded that the AASI (Ancient Ancestral South Indians) form their own ancestral clade, best represented by the indigenous tribes, such as the [[Irula people]] and [[Paniya people]].&lt;ref name=&quot;auto&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Yelmen|first1=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=1 August 2019|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt; The East Asian ancestry component detected in India is mainly restricted to specific populations in the [[Himalayan foothills]] and [[Northeast India]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |last2=Kadian |first2=Anurag |last3=Bala |first3=Saroj |last4=Rao |first4=Vadlamudi Raghavendra |url=https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0127655|s2cid=848806 |title=Genetic Affinity of the Bhil, Kol and Gond Mentioned in Epic Ramayana |journal=PLOS ONE |date=10 June 2015 |volume=10 |issue=6 |pages=e0127655 |doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0127655 |pmid=26061398 |pmc=4465503 |bibcode=2015PLoSO..1027655C |language=en |issn=1932-6203}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> It has been found that the ancestral node of the phylogenetic tree of all the [[mtDNA]] types ([[mitochondrial DNA haplogroup]]s) typically found in Central Asia, the West Asia and Europe are also to be found in South Asia at relatively high frequencies. The inferred divergence of this common ancestral node is estimated to have occurred slightly less than 50,000 years ago, supporting an &quot;Out-of-India&quot; event for West-Eurasian populations such as Europeans, during the early Paleolithic.&lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a /&gt; In India, the major maternal lineages are various [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]] subclades, followed by [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] sublineages. These mitochondrial haplogroups' coalescence times have been approximated to date to 50,000 BP.&lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a /&gt;<br /> <br /> The major paternal lineages of Indians, represented by [[Y chromosome]]s, are haplogroups [[Haplogroup R1a1|R1a1]], [[Haplogroup R2|R2]], [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|H]], [[Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)|L]] and [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]], all common in modern day West-Eurasians, such as Middle Easterners and Europeans. The ancestral lineages are suggested to have diverged within South Asia and than spreaded to Europe and northern Africa respectively.&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt; Some researchers have argued that Y-DNA Haplogroup R1a1 (M17) is of [[autochthon (person)|autochthonous]] South Asian origin.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; However, proposals for a Central Asian origin for R1a1 are also quite common.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> == Overview ==<br /> All the mtDNA and Y-chromosome lineages outside Africa descend from three founder lineages:<br /> * [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N]] and [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] haplogroups for mtDNA and<br /> * [[Haplogroup C (Y-DNA)|C]], [[Haplogroup D (Y-DNA)|D]] and [[Haplogroup F* (Y-DNA)|F]] haplogroups for the Y-chromosome.<br /> All these six founder haplogroups can be found in the present day populations of [[South Asia]]. Moreover, the mtDNA haplogroup M and the Y-chromosome haplogroups C and D are restricted to the area ''east'' of South Asia. All the West [[Eurasian]] populations derive from the N and R haplogroups of mtDNA and the F haplogroup of the Y-chromosome.{{sfn|Endicott|Metspalu|Kivisild|2007|p=231}}<br /> <br /> Endicott et al. state that these facts are consistent with the hypothesis of a single exodus from East Africa 65,000 years ago via a [[Recent African origin of modern humans#Movement out of Africa|southern coastal route]], with the West Eurasian lineages separating from the South Asian lineages somewhere between East/Northeast Africa and South Asia.{{sfn|Endicott|Metspalu|Kivisild|2007|pp=234–235}}<br /> <br /> The predominant majority genome markers of South Asians are all closely related to [[West Eurasians]] and may have either originated in [[Western Asia]] or [[South Asia]] itself.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Das |first1=Ranajit |last2=Upadhyai |first2=Priyanka |s2cid=88966532 |title=Tracing the biogeographical origin of South Asian populations using DNA SatNav |journal=bioRxiv |date=25 November 2016 |pages=089466 |doi=10.1101/089466 |quote=Our hypothesis is supported by archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidences that suggest that there were two prominent waves of immigrations to India. A majority of the Early Caucasoids were proto-Dravidian language speakers that migrated to India putatively ~ 6000 YBP.}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Full genome analyses in 2020 reveals that the Indian people (majority of the South Asian ethnic groups) are closely related to various West-Eurasian populations, such as Europeans and Middle Easterners. Some forest tribes however have rather diverse ancestry and are shifted towards non-West-Eurasian groups.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|date=2020-12-01|title=The Y-chromosome of the Soliga, an ancient forest-dwelling tribe of South India|url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590158319300233|journal=Gene: X|language=en|volume=5|pages=100026|doi=10.1016/j.gene.2019.100026|issn=2590-1583}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == mtDNA ==<br /> {{See also|Recent single origin hypothesis}}<br /> [[File:Peopling of eurasia.jpg|thumb|300px|Hypothesized map of human migration into [[South Asia]] based on [[mitochondrial DNA]] and possible dispersal routes.]]<br /> The most frequent [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|mtDNA haplogroups]] in South Asia are [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] (where U is a descendant of R).&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt;<br /> <br /> Arguing for the longer term &quot;rival Y-Chromosome model&quot;,&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt; [[Stephen Oppenheimer]] believes that it is highly suggestive that India is the origin of the [[Eurasia]]n [[mtDNA]] haplogroups which he calls the &quot;Eurasian Eves&quot;. According to Oppenheimer it is highly probable that nearly all human maternal lineages in Central Asia, the Middle East and Europe descended from only four mtDNA lines that originated in South Asia 50,000–100,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Oppenheimer|2003}}{{page needed|date=December 2013}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Macrohaplogroup M ===<br /> The [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup M]], which is considered as a cluster of the proto-Asian maternal lineages,&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt; represents more than 60% of South Asian MtDNA.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> The M macrohaplotype in India includes many subgroups that differ profoundly from other sublineages in East Asia especially Mongoloid populations.&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt; The deep roots of M phylogeny clearly ascertain the relic of South Asian lineages as compared to other M sub lineages (in East Asia and elsewhere) suggesting 'in-situ' origin of these sub-haplogroups in South Asia, most likely in India. These deep rooting lineages are not language specific and spread over all the language groups in India.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Virtually all modern Central Asian MtDNA M lineages seem to belong to the Eastern Eurasian ([[Mongoloid|Mongolian]]) rather than the South Asian subtypes of haplogroup M, which indicates that no large-scale migration from the present [[Turkic languages|Turkic]]-speaking populations of Central Asia occurred to India. The absence of haplogroup M in Europeans, compared to its equally high frequency among South Asians, East Asians and in some Central Asian populations contrasts with the Western Eurasian leanings of South Asian paternal lineages.&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt;<br /> <br /> Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans.&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Important Sub clades || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! M2<br /> || M2a, M2b || Throughout the continent with low presence in Northwest &lt;br /&gt; Peaking in Bangladesh, Andhra Pradesh, coastal Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka<br /> |-<br /> ! M3<br /> || M3a || Concentrated into northwestern India &lt;br /&gt; Highest amongst the Parsees of Mumbai<br /> |-<br /> ! M4<br /> || M4a || Peaks in Pakistan, Kashmir and Andhra Pradesh<br /> |-<br /> ! M6<br /> || M6a, M6b || Kashmir and near the coasts of the Bay of Bengal, Sri Lanka<br /> |-<br /> ! M18<br /> || || Throughout South Asia&lt;br /&gt; Peaking at Rajasthan and Andhra Pradesh<br /> |-<br /> ! M25<br /> || || Moderately frequent in Kerala and Maharashtra but rather infrequent elsewhere in India<br /> |}<br /> <br /> === Macrohaplogroup R ===<br /> <br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | width = 130<br /> | image1=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-2.jpg<br /> | image2=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-1.jpg<br /> | image3=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-3.jpg<br /> | footer = The spatial distribution of [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] mtDNA haplogroups and their sub-haplogroups in South Asia. <br /> }}<br /> <br /> The [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup R]] (a very large and old subdivision of [[Haplogroup N (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup N]]) is also widely represented and accounts for the other 40% of South Asian MtDNA. A very old and most important subdivision of it is [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|haplogroup U]] that, while also present in [[West Eurasia]], has several subclades specific to South Asia.<br /> <br /> Most important South Asian haplogroups within R:&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! R2<br /> || Distributed widely across the sub continent<br /> |-<br /> ! R5<br /> || widely distributed by most of India. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks in coastal SW India<br /> |-<br /> ! R6<br /> || widespread at low rates across India. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks among Tamils and Kashmiris<br /> |-<br /> ! W<br /> || Found in northwestern states. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks in Gujarat, Punjab and Kashmir, frequency is low elsewhere.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> ==== Haplogroup U ====<br /> [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|Haplogroup U]] is a sub-haplogroup of macrohaplogroup R.&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt; The distribution of haplogroup U is a mirror image of that for haplogroup M: the former has not been described so far among eastern Asians but is frequent in European populations as well as among South Asians.&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999a /&gt; South Asian U lineages differ substantially from those in Europe and their coalescence to a common ancestor also dates back to about 50,000 years.&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! U2*<br /> || (a [[parahaplogroup]]) is sparsely distributed specially in the northern half of the South Asia.<br /> It is also found in SW Arabia.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2a<br /> || shows relatively high density in Pakistan and NW India but also in Karnataka, where it reaches its higher density.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2b<br /> || has highest concentration in Uttar Pradesh but is also found in many other places, specially in Kerala and Sri Lanka.<br /> It is also found in Oman.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2c<br /> || is specially important in Bangladesh and West Bengal.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2l<br /> || is maybe the most important numerically among U subclades in South Asia, reaching specially high concentrations (over 10%) in Uttar Pradesh, Sri Lanka, Sindh and parts of Karnataka. It also has some importance in Oman. [[mtDNA haplogroup U2i]] is dubbed &quot;Western Eurasian&quot; in Bamshad ''et al.'' study but &quot;Eastern Eurasian (mostly India specific)&quot; in Kivisild ''et al.'' study.<br /> |-<br /> ! U7<br /> || this haplogroup has a significant presence in Gujarat, Punjab and Pakistan. The possible homeland of this haplogroup spans Gujarat (highest frequency, 12%) and Iran because from there its frequency declines steeply both to the east and to the west.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> == Y chromosome ==<br /> [[File:Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG|thumb|350px|The diversion of [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants.]]<br /> '''{{details|topic=individual groups by Y-DNA|Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of South Asia}}'''<br /> The major South Asian Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups are [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|H]], [[Haplogroup J-M172|J2]], [[Haplogroup L-M20|L]], [[Haplogroup R1a1|R1a1]] and [[Haplogroup R2a|R2]], typically West-Eurasian haplogroups shared with Europeans and Middle Easterners.&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt; Their geographical origins are listed as follows, according to the latest scholarship:<br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; border=&quot;1&quot;<br /> !width=16%|Major South Asian Y-chromosomal lineages:<br /> !width=16%|H<br /> !width=16%|J2<br /> !width=16%|L<br /> !width=16%|R1a<br /> !width=16%|R2<br /> |- valign=top<br /> !Basu ''et al.'' (2003)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |Central Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Kivisild ''et al.'' (2003)<br /> |India<br /> |Western Asia<br /> |India<br /> |Southern and Western Asia<br /> |South-Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Cordaux ''et al.'' (2004)<br /> |India<br /> |West or Central Asia<br /> |Middle Eastern<br /> |Central Asia<br /> |South-Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Sengupta ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |India<br /> |The Middle East and Central Asia<br /> |South India<br /> |North India<br /> |North India<br /> |-<br /> !Thanseem ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |India<br /> |The Levant<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |Southern and Central Asia<br /> |Southern and Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Sahoo ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |South Asia<br /> |The Near East<br /> |South Asia<br /> |South or West Asia<br /> |South Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Mirabal ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |Northwestern India or Central Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Zhao ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |India<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |Central Asia or West Eurasia<br /> |Central Asia or West Eurasia<br /> |-<br /> !Sharma ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |South Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Thangaraj ''et al.'' (2010)<br /> |South Asia<br /> |The Near East<br /> |The Near East<br /> |South Asia<br /> |South Asia<br /> |}<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup H ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)}}<br /> <br /> [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)]] is found at a high frequency in South Asia. H is today rarely found outside of the South Asia but is common among the [[Romanis]], particularly the H-M82 subgroup. H was also quite common in ancient samples of Europe and is still found today at a low frequency in Europeans and Arabs of the [[Levant]]. Haplogroup H is frequently found among populations of [[India]], [[Sri Lanka]], [[Nepal]], [[Pakistan]] and the [[Maldives]]. All three branches of [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)]] are found in South Asia.<br /> <br /> It is a branch of [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and descends from [[Haplogroup GHIJK|GHIJK]] family. [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup H]] is believed to have arisen in South Asia between 30,000 and 40,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot; /&gt; Its probable site of introduction is South Asia, since it is concentrated there. It seems to represent the main Y-Chromosome haplogroup of the paleolithic inhabitants of South Asia and Europe respectively. Some individuals in South Asia have also been shown to belong to the much rarer subclade H3 (Z5857).&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot; /&gt; Haplogroup H is by no means restricted to specific populations. For example, H is possessed by about 28.8% of Indo-Aryan castes.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; and in tribals about 25–35%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup J2 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)}}<br /> Haplogroup J2 has been present in South Asia mostly as J2a-M410 and J2b-M102, since neolithic times (9500 YBP).&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Singh |first1=Sakshi |last2=Singh |first2=Ashish |last3=Rajkumar |first3=Raja |last4=Sampath Kumar |first4=Katakam |last5=Kadarkarai Samy |first5=Subburaj |last6=Nizamuddin |first6=Sheikh |last7=Singh |first7=Amita |last8=Ahmed Sheikh |first8=Shahnawaz |last9=Peddada |first9=Vidya |last10=Khanna |first10=Vinee |last11=Veeraiah |first11=Pandichelvam |last12=Pandit |first12=Aridaman |last13=Chaubey |first13=Gyaneshwer |last14=Singh |first14=Lalji |last15=Thangaraj |first15=Kumarasamy |title=Dissecting the influence of Neolithic demic diffusion on Indian Y-chromosome pool through J2-M172 haplogroup |journal=Scientific Reports |date=12 January 2016 |volume=6 |issue=1 |page=19157 |doi=10.1038/srep19157 |pmid=26754573 |pmc=4709632 |bibcode=2016NatSR...619157S |language=en |issn=2045-2322}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Herrera2018&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Herrera |first1=Rene J. |last2=Garcia-Bertrand |first2=Ralph |title=Ancestral DNA, Human Origins, and Migrations |date=2018 |publisher=Academic Press |isbn=978-0-12-804128-4 |page=250 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=ZF1gDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=Ancestral+DNA+Human+Origins+and+Migrations+J2b-M102+South+Asia&amp;pg=PA250 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt; J2 clades attain peak frequencies in the North-West and South India&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot; /&gt; and is found at 19% within South Indian castes, 11% in North Indian castes and 12% in Pakistan.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; In [[South India]], the presence of J2 is higher among middle castes at 21%, followed by upper castes at 18.6% and lower castes at 14%.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; Among caste groups, the highest frequency of J2-M172 is observed among Tamil [[Vellalar]]s of South India, at 38.7%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sengupta S, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Mehdi SQ, Edmonds CA, Chow CE, Lin AA, Mitra M, Sil SK, Ramesh A, Usha Rani MV, Thakur CM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Majumder PP, Underhill PA | display-authors = 6 | title = Polarity and temporality of high-resolution y-chromosome distributions in India identify both indigenous and exogenous expansions and reveal minor genetic influence of Central Asian pastoralists | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 78 | issue = 2 | pages = 202–21 | date = February 2006 | pmid = 16400607 | pmc = 1380230 | doi = 10.1086/499411 }}&lt;/ref&gt; J2 is present in tribals too&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot; /&gt; and has a frequency of 11% in Austro-Asiatic tribals. Among the Austro-Asiatic tribals, the predominant [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]] occurs in the Lodha (35%).&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; J2 is also present in the South Indian [[hill tribe]] [[Toda people|Toda]] at 38.46%,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Soria-Hernanz DF, Kavitha VJ, Arun VS, Syama A, Ashokan KS, Gandhirajan KT, Vijayakumar K, Narayanan M, Jayalakshmi M, Ziegle JS, Royyuru AK, Parida L, Wells RS, Renfrew C, Schurr TG, Smith CT, Platt DE, Pitchappan R | display-authors = 6 | title = Population differentiation of southern Indian male lineages correlates with agricultural expansions predating the caste system | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 7 | issue = 11 | pages = e50269 | year = 2012 | pmid = 23209694 | pmc = 3508930 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0050269 | bibcode = 2012PLoSO...750269A }}&lt;/ref&gt; in the [[Andh|Andh tribe]] of [[Telangana]] at 35.19%&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt; and in the [[Kol people|Kol tribe]] of [[Uttar Pradesh]] at a frequency of 33.34%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sharma2009&quot;/&gt; Haplogroup J-P209 was found to be more common in India's [[Shia Muslim]]s, of which 28.7% belong to haplogroup J, with 13.7% in J-M410, 10.6% in J-M267 and 4.4% in J2b {{harv|Eaaswarkhanth|2009}}.<br /> <br /> In [[Pakistan]], the highest frequencies of J2-M172 were observed among the [[Parsi]]s at 38.89%, the [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speaking [[Brahui people|Brahuis]] at 28.18% and the Makrani [[Baloch people|Balochs]] at 24%.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Qamar R, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Helgason A, Mazhar K, Mansoor A, Zerjal T, Tyler-Smith C, Mehdi SQ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 5 | pages = 1107–24 | date = May 2002 | pmid = 11898125 | pmc = 447589 | doi = 10.1086/339929 }}&lt;/ref&gt; It also occurs at 18.18% in [[Siddi|Makrani Siddis]] and at 3% in [[Siddis of Karnataka|Karnataka Siddis]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shah AM, Tamang R, Moorjani P, Rani DS, Govindaraj P, Kulkarni G, Bhattacharya T, Mustak MS, Bhaskar LV, Reddy AG, Gadhvi D, Gai PB, Chaubey G, Patterson N, Reich D, Tyler-Smith C, Singh L, Thangaraj K | display-authors = 6 | title = Indian Siddis: African descendants with Indian admixture | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 1 | pages = 154–61 | date = July 2011 | pmid = 21741027 | pmc = 3135801 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.05.030 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> J2-M172 is found at an overall frequency of 10.3% among the [[Sinhalese people]] of [[Sri Lanka]].&lt;ref name=kivisild2003/&gt; In [[Maldives]], 20.6% of Maldivian population were found to be haplogroup J2 positive.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pijpe |first1=Jeroen |last2=de Voogt |first2=Alex |last3=van Oven |first3=Mannis |last4=Henneman |first4=Peter |last5=van der Gaag |first5=Kristiaan J. |last6=Kayser |first6=Manfred |last7=de Knijff |first7=Peter |title=Indian ocean crossroads: Human genetic origin and population structure in the maldives |journal=American Journal of Physical Anthropology |date=21 March 2013 |volume=151 |issue=1 |pages=58–67 |doi=10.1002/ajpa.22256 |pmid=23526367 |pmc=3652038 |language=en |issn=0002-9483}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup L ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)}}<br /> According to Dr. [[Spencer Wells]], L-M20 originated in the [[Pamir Knot]] region in [[Tajikistan]] and migrated into [[Pakistan]] and [[India]] ca. 30,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last1=Wells|first1=Spencer|title=Deep ancestry : inside the Genographic project|date=2007|publisher=National Geographic|location=Washington, D.C.|isbn=978-1426201189}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;David G 2017&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Spencer Wells (2003), ''The Journey of Man. A Genetic Odyssey''. New Delhi: Penguin Books India, p. 167&lt;/ref&gt; However, most other studies have proposed a [[West Asia]]n origin for L-M20 and associated its expansion in the [[Indus valley]] (~7,000 YBP) to [[neolithic]] farmers.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao Z, Khan F, Borkar M, Herrera R, Agrawal S | title = Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: a study of 560 Y chromosomes | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 36 | issue = 1 | pages = 46–59 | date = 2009 | pmid = 19058044 | pmc = 2755252 | doi = 10.1080/03014460802558522 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Aunger R, Bentley G, Nasidze I, Sirajuddin SM, Stoneking M | s2cid = 5721248 | title = Independent origins of Indian caste and tribal paternal lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 14 | issue = 3 | pages = 231–5 | date = February 2004 | pmid = 14761656 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2004.01.024 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McElreavey K, Quintana-Murci L | s2cid = 109014 | title = A population genetics perspective of the Indus Valley through uniparentally-inherited markers | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 32 | issue = 2 | pages = 154–62 | date = 2005 | pmid = 16096211 | doi = 10.1080/03014460500076223 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thangaraj K, Naidu BP, Crivellaro F, Tamang R, Upadhyay S, Sharma VK, Reddy AG, Walimbe SR, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = The influence of natural barriers in shaping the genetic structure of Maharashtra populations | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 5 | issue = 12 | pages = e15283 | date = December 2010 | pmid = 21187967 | pmc = 3004917 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0015283 | bibcode = 2010PLoSO...515283T }}&lt;/ref&gt; There are three subbranches of haplogroup L: L1-M76 (L1a1), L2-M317 (L1b) and L3-M357 (L1a2), found at varying levels in South Asia.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> [[Haplogroup L-M20|Haplogroup L]] shows time of neolithic expansion.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2010 /&gt; The clade is present in the Indian population at an overall frequency of ca. 7–15%.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Basu2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; [[Haplogroup L-M20|Haplogroup L]] has higher frequency among south Indian castes (ca. 17–19%) and reaches up to 68% in some castes in [[Karnataka]] but is somewhat rarer in north Indian castes (ca. 5–6%).&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; The presence of haplogroup L is quite rare among tribal groups (ca. 5,6–7%),&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; however a moderate, 14.6% has been observed among the [[Chenchu]]s.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Among regional and social groups, moderate to high frequencies have been observed in Konkanastha Brahmins (18.6%), Punjabis (12.1%), Gujaratis (10.4%), [[Lambadis]] (17.1%), [[Jats]] (36.8%)&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;David G 2017&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mahal DG, Matsoukas IG | title = Y-STR Haplogroup Diversity in the Jat Population Reveals Several Different Ancient Origins | journal = Frontiers in Genetics | volume = 8 | pages = 121 | date = 20 September 2017 | pmid = 28979290 | pmc = 5611447 | doi = 10.3389/fgene.2017.00121 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> In Pakistan, L1-M76 and L3-M357 subclades of L-M20 reaches overall frequencies of 5.1% and 6.8%, respectively.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;<br /> Haplogroup L3 (M357) is found frequently among [[Burusho people|Burusho]] (approx. 12%&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;) and [[Pashtun people|Pashtuns]] (approx. 7%&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;). Its highest frequency can be found in south western [[Balochistan (Pakistan)|Balochistan]] province along the [[Makran]] coast (28%) to [[Indus River]] delta. L3a (PK3) is found in approximately 23% of [[Nuristani people|Nuristani]] in northwest [[Pakistan]].&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;<br /> <br /> The clade is present in moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population (14% approx).{{sfn|Qamar|2002}}{{sfn|Mcelreavey|2005}}<br /> <br /> ====Sri Lanka====<br /> In one study, 16% of the Sinhalese were found to be Haplogroup L-M20 positive.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003a/&gt; In another study 18% were found to belong to L1.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup R1a1 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup R1a1a}}<br /> In South Asia, R1a1 has been observed often with high frequency in a number of demographic groups,&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot;&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Sengupta et al.|2005}}{{full|date=May 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; as well as with highest [[Microsatellite|STR]] diversity which lead some to see it as the locus of origin.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Mirabal2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> While R1a originated ca. 22,000&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt; to 25,000{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} years ago, its subclade M417 (R1a1a1) diversified ca. 5,800 years ago.{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} The distribution of M417-subclades R1-Z282 (including R1-Z280){{sfn|Pamjav|2012}} in Central- and Eastern Europe and R1-Z93 in Asia{{sfn|Pamjav|2012}}{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} suggests that R1a1a diversified within the [[Eurasian Steppe]]s or the [[Middle East]] and [[Caucasus]] region.{{sfn|Pamjav|2012}} The place of origin of these subclades plays a role in the debate about the origins of [[Indo-European languages|Indo-Europeans]].<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> <br /> In [[India]], high percentage of this haplogroup is observed in [[Bengali Brahmins|West Bengal Brahmins]] (72%)&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot; /&gt; to the east, [[Lohana|Gujarat Lohanas]] (60%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; to the west, [[Khatri]]s (67%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; in north, [[Iyengar|Iyengar Brahmins]] (31%) in the south.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot; /&gt; It has also been found in several [[South Indian]] [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]]-speaking [[Adivasi|tribals]] including the Kotas (41%) of Tamil Nadu{{sfn|ArunkumarG|2012}} [[Chenchu]] (26%) and Valmikis of [[Andhra Pradesh]]&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt; as well as the [[Yadav]] and [[Kallar(caste)|Kallar]] of [[Tamil Nadu]] suggesting that M17 is widespread in these Southern Indians tribes.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Kivisild|2003}}&lt;/ref&gt; Besides these, studies show high percentages in regionally diverse groups such as [[Meitei people|Manipuris]] (50%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; to the extreme North East and in among [[Punjabis]] (47%)&lt;ref name=kivisild2003/&gt; to the extreme North West.<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> In Pakistan, it is found at 71% among the Mohanna of [[Sindh Province]] to the south and 46% among the [[Balti people|Baltis]] of [[Gilgit-Baltistan]] to the north.&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Sri Lanka ====<br /> 23% of the [[Sinhalese people]] out of a sample of 87 subjects were found to be R1a1a (R-SRY1532) positive according to a 2003 research.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003a&gt;{{Cite book | last1 = Kivisild | first1 = Toomas | last2 = Rootsi |first2=Siiri |last3=Metspalu |first3=Mait |last4=Metspalu |first4=Ene |last5=Parik |first5=Juri |last6=Kaldma |first6=Katrin |last7=Usanga |first7=Esien |last8=Mastana |first8=Sarabjit |last9=Papiha |first9=Surinder S. |last10=Villems |first10=Richard | name-list-style = vanc | year = 2003 | chapter= The Genetics of Language and Farming Spread in India |editor=Bellwood P, Renfrew C |title=Examining the farming/language dispersal hypothesis | publisher = McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, Cambridge, United Kingdom | pages = 215–222 |chapter-url=http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2003a.pdf }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maldives ====<br /> In [[Maldives]], 23.8% of the [[Maldivian people]] were found to be R1a1a (M17) positive.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Nepal ====<br /> People in [[Terai]] Region, [[Nepal]] show R1a1a at 69%.&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Fornarino et al.|2009}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup R2 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)}}<br /> <br /> In South Asia, the frequency of [[Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA)|R2]] and [[Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)|R2a]] lineage is around 10–15% in India and [[Sri Lanka]] and 7–8% in Pakistan. At least 90% of R-M124 individuals are located in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Manoukian&quot; /&gt; It is also reported in [[Caucasus]] and [[Central Asia]] at lower frequency. A genetic study by Mondal et al. 2017 concluded that [[Haplogroup R2]] originated in northern India and was already present before the Steppe migration.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Mondal|first1=Mayukh|last2=Bergström|first2=Anders|last3=Xue|first3=Yali|last4=Calafell|first4=Francesc|last5=Laayouni|first5=Hafid|last6=Casals|first6=Ferran|last7=Majumder|first7=Partha P.|last8=Tyler-Smith|first8=Chris|last9=Bertranpetit|first9=Jaume|s2cid=3725426|date=1 May 2017|title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese|journal=Human Genetics|language=en|volume=136|issue=5|pages=499–510|doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0|pmid=28444560|issn=1432-1203|hdl=10230/34399|hdl-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> <br /> Among regional groups, it is found among [[West Bengal|West]] [[Bengalis]] (23%), [[New Delhi]] [[Hindu]]s (20%), [[Punjabis]] (5%) and [[Gujaratis]] (3%).&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt; Among tribal groups, Karmalis of [[West Bengal]] showed highest at 100%&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; followed by [[Lodha people|Lodhas]] (43%)&lt;ref name=Kumar2007 /&gt; to the east, while [[Bhil]] of [[Gujarat]] in the west were at 18%,&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt; [[Tharu people|Tharus]] of north showed it at 17%,&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt; [[Chenchu]] and [[Pallan]] of south were at 20% and 14% respectively.&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt; Among caste groups, high percentages are shown by [[Jaunpur district|Jaunpur]] [[Kshatriya]]s (87%), [[Kamma (caste)|kamma]] (73%), [[Bihar]] [[Yadav]] (50%), [[Khandayat]] (46%)and [[Kallar (caste)|Kallar]] (44%).&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> It is also significantly high in many [[Brahmin]] groups including [[Punjabi Brahmins]] (25%), [[Bengali Brahmins]] (22%), [[Konkanastha]] Brahmins (20%), [[Chaturvedi]]s (32%), [[Bhargava]]s (32%), [[Kashmiri Pandit]]s (14%) and [[Lingayat]] Brahmins (30%).&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> North Indian Muslims have a frequency of 19% ([[Sunni Islam|Sunni]]) and 13% ([[Shia islam|Shia]]),&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt; while [[Dawoodi Bohra|Dawoodi Bohra Muslim]] in the western state of Gujarat have a frequency of 16% and [[Mappila|Mappila Muslims]] of South India have a frequency of 5%.&lt;ref name=Eaaswarkhanth2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> The R2 haplogroup is found in 14% of the [[Burusho people]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Firasat2007&quot; /&gt; Among the [[Hunza people]] it is found at 18% while the [[Parsi]]s show it at 20%. It is also found in the northeastern part of [[Afghanistan]].{{citation needed|date=July 2016}}<br /> <br /> ==== Sri Lanka ====<br /> 38% of the [[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]] of Sri Lanka were found to be R2 positive according to a 2003 research.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maldives ====<br /> 12% of the [[Maldivian people]] of Maldives are found to have R2.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Nepal ====<br /> In Nepal, R2 percentages range from 2% to 26% within different groups under various studies. [[Newar]]s show a significantly high frequency of 26% while people of [[Kathmandu]] show it at 10%.<br /> <br /> == Reconstructing South Asian population history ==<br /> The {{harvtxt|Indian Genome Variation Consortium|2008}}, divides the population of South Asia into four ethnolinguistic (not genetic) groups: [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]], [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]], [[Tibeto-Burman languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and [[Austroasiatic languages|Austro-Asiatic]].&lt;ref&gt;<br /> {{Cite web |url=http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf |title=The Place of the Indian mtDNA Variants in the Global Network of Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World |access-date=28 September 2011 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120308154249/http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf |archive-date=8 March 2012 |url-status=live }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;<br /> {{cite web|url=http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=2-16|title=Ethnologue report for Indo-European|publisher=Ethnologue.com|access-date=24 November 2015|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20121015090404/http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=2-16|archive-date=15 October 2012|url-status=live}}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Baldi|first=Philip| name-list-style = vanc |author-link=Philip Baldi|title=Linguistic Change and Reconstruction Methodology|publisher=Walter de Gruyter|year=1990|isbn=978-3-11-011908-4|page=342}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfnp|Burling|2003|pp=174–178}}&lt;ref&gt;<br /> Bradley (2012) notes, ''MK in the wider sense including the Munda languages of eastern South Asia is also known as Austroasiatic.''[https://www.academia.edu/1542763/Languages_and_Language_Families_in_China Languages and Language Families in China] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170430061616/http://www.academia.edu/1542763/Languages_and_Language_Families_in_China |date=30 April 2017 }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; The molecular anthropology studies use three different type of markers: Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation which is maternally inherited and highly polymorphic, Y Chromosome variation which involves uniparental transmission along the male lines, and Autosomal DNA variation.&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt;{{rp|04}}<br /> <br /> === mtDNA variation ===<br /> Most of the studies based on mtDNA variation have reported genetic unity of South Asian populations across language, caste and tribal groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar&quot;&gt;<br /> {{cite book|last=Singh|first=Ashok Kumar| name-list-style = vanc |title=Science &amp; Technology For Upsc|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=CzV1MgFH6oMC&amp;pg=PA595|year=2007|publisher=Tata McGraw-Hill Education|isbn=978-0-07-065548-5|page=595|access-date=24 May 2016|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140103134039/http://books.google.com/books?id=CzV1MgFH6oMC&amp;pg=PA595|archive-date=3 January 2014|url-status=live}}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; It is likely that haplogroup M was brought to Asia from East Africa along the southern route by earliest migration wave 78,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to [[Toomas Kivisild|Kivisild]] et al. (1999), &quot;Minor overlaps with lineages described in other Eurasian populations clearly demonstrate that recent immigrations have had very little impact on the innate structure of the maternal [[gene pool]] of South Asians. Despite the variations found within India, these populations stem from a limited number of founder lineages. These lineages were most likely introduced to South Asia during the Middle Palaeolithic, before the peopling of Europe 48,000 years ago and perhaps the Old World in general.&quot;&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b /&gt; Basu et al. (2003) also emphasises underlying unity of female lineages in India.&lt;ref name=Basu2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Y Chromosome variation ===<br /> Conclusions based on Y Chromosome variation have been more varied than those based on mtDNA variation. While {{harvtxt|Kivisild et al.|2003}} proposes an ancient and shared genetic heritage of male lineages in South Asia, Bamshad et al. (2001) suggests an affinity between South Asian male lineages and west Eurasians proportionate to upper caste rank and places upper caste populations of southern Indian states closer to [[East Europeans]].&lt;ref name=Bamshad2001 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Basu et al. (2003) concludes that Austro–Asiatic tribal populations entered India first from the Northwest corridor and much later some of them through Northeastern corridor.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2003&quot; /&gt; Whereas, Kumar et al. (2007) analysed 25 South Asian Austro-Asiatic tribes and found strong paternal genetic link among the sub-linguistic groups of the South Asian Austro-Asiatic populations.&lt;ref name=Kumar2007 /&gt; Mukherjee et al. (2001) places Pakistanis and North Indians between west Asian and Central Asian populations,&lt;ref name=Mukherjee2001 /&gt; whereas Cordaux et al. (2004) argues that the Indian caste populations are closer to Central Asian populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot; /&gt; Sahoo et al. (2006) and Sengupta et al. (2006) suggest that Indian caste populations have not been subject to any recent admixtures.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; Sanghamitra Sahoo concludes his study with:&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> {{Quote|It is not necessary, based on the current evidence, to look beyond South Asia for the origins of the paternal heritage of the majority of Indians at the time of the onset of settled agriculture. The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through the northwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny. Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a, and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the South Asia are rejected, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H. Of the others, only J2 indicates an unambiguous recent external contribution, from West Asia rather than Central Asia. The current distributions of haplogroup frequencies are, with the exception of the lineages, predominantly driven by geographical, rather than cultural determinants. Ironically, it is in the northeast of India, among the TB groups that there is clear-cut evidence for large-scale demic diffusion traceable by genes, culture, and language, but apparently not by agriculture.}}<br /> <br /> Closest neighbor analysis done by Mondal et al. 2017 concluded that Indian Y-lineages are close to southern [[Europe]]an populations and the time of divergence between the two predated Steppe migration.&quot;:&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Mondal |first1=Mayukh |last2=Bergström |first2=Anders |last3=Xue |first3=Yali |last4=Calafell |first4=Francesc |last5=Laayouni |first5=Hafid |last6=Casals |first6=Ferran |last7=Majumder |first7=Partha P. |last8=Tyler-Smith |first8=Chris |last9=Bertranpetit |first9=Jaume |s2cid=3725426 |title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese |journal=Human Genetics |date=25 April 2017 |volume=136 |issue=5 |pages=499–510 |doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0 |pmid=28444560 |hdl=10230/34399 |hdl-access=free }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{Quote|text=These results suggest that the European-related ancestry in Indian populations might be much older and more complex than anticipated, and might originate from the first wave of agriculturists or even earlier|sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> === Autosomal DNA variation ===<br /> <br /> ====AASI-ANI-ASI====<br /> Results of studies based upon autosomal DNA variation have also been varied. In a major study (2009) using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers, Reich hypothesized that the modern South Asian population was the result of admixture between two genetically divergent ancestral populations dating from the post-Holocene era. These two &quot;reconstructed&quot; ancient populations he termed &quot;Ancestral South Indians&quot; (ASI) and &quot;Ancestral North Indians&quot; (ANI). According to Reich: &quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers, suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot; While the ANI is genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians and Europeans, the ASI is not closely related to groups outside of the subcontinent. As no &quot;ASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] [[Onge people|Onge]] are used as an (imperfect) proxy of ASI (according to Reich et al., the Andamanese, though distinct from them, are the closest living population to ASI). According to Reich et al., both ANI and ASI ancestry are found all over the subcontinent (in both northern and southern India) in varying proportions, and that &quot;ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich2009&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the ASI, though not closely related to any living group, are &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. however suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI, causing the modeled relationship. The study concluded that &quot;almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West-Eurasians in PCA (referred to as &quot;Indian cline&quot;)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2013 study by Chaubey using the single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP), shows that the genome of Andamanese people (Onge) is closer to those of other Oceanic Negrito groups than to that of South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|last1=Chaubey|first1=Gyaneshwer|last2=Endicott|first2=Phillip|date=June 2013|title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia|url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7|journal=Human Biology|volume=85|issue=1–3|pages=153–172|doi=10.3378/027.085.0307|pmid=24297224|s2cid=7774927}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. 2016, further analysis revealed that the genomic structure of mainland Indian populations is best explained by contributions from four ancestral components. In addition to the ANI and ASI, Basu et. al (2016) identified two East Asian ancestral components in mainland India that are major for the Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribals and the Tibeto-Burman speakers, which they denoted as AAA (for &quot;Ancestral Austro-Asiatic&quot;) and ATB (for &quot;Ancestral Tibeto-Burman&quot;) respectively. The study also infers that the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which &quot;was found to be coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations&quot; but more distant from South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The cline of admixture between the ANI and ASI lineages is dated to the period of c. 4.2–1.9 kya by Moorjani et al. (2013), corresponding to the Indian Bronze Age, and associated by the authors with the process of deurbanisation of the [[Indus Valley Civilization]] and the population shift to the Gangetic system in the incipient Indian Iron Age.&lt;ref name=&quot;Moorjani2013&quot; /&gt; Basu et al. (2003) suggests that &quot;Dravidian speakers were possibly widespread throughout India before the arrival of the Indo-European-speaking nomads&quot; and that &quot;formation of populations by fission that resulted in founder and drift effects have left their imprints on the genetic structures of contemporary populations&quot;.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2003&quot; /&gt; The geneticist PP Majumder (2010) has recently argued that the findings of Reich et al. (2009) are in remarkable concordance with previous research using mtDNA and Y-DNA:&lt;ref name=&quot;Majumder2010&quot; /&gt;<br /> {{Quote|Central Asian populations are supposed to have been major contributors to the Indian gene pool, particularly to the northern Indian gene pool, and the migrants had supposedly moved into India through what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan. Using [[mitochondrial DNA]] variation data collated from various studies, we have shown that populations of Central Asia and Pakistan show the lowest coefficient of genetic differentiation with the north Indian populations, a higher differentiation with the south Indian populations, and the highest with the northeast Indian populations. Northern Indian populations are genetically closer to Central Asians than populations of other geographical regions of India... . Consistent with the above findings, a recent study using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers has found a north to south gradient of genetic proximity of Indian populations to western Eurasians. This feature is likely related to the proportions of ancestry derived from the western Eurasian gene pool, which, as this study has shown, is greater in populations inhabiting northern India than those inhabiting southern India.}}<br /> <br /> Chaubey et al. 2015 detected a distinctive East Asian ancestral component, mainly restricted to specific populations in the foothills of Himalaya and northeastern part of India. Highest frequency of the component is observed among the Tibeto-Burmese speaking groups of northeast India and was also detected in Andamanese populations at 32%, with substantial presence also among Austroasiatic speakers. It is found to be largely absent in Indo-European and Dravidian speakers, except in some specific ethnic groups living in the Himalayan foothills and central-south India.&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |title=East Asian ancestry in India |date=January 2015 |journal=Indian Journal of Physical Anthropology and Human Genetics |volume=34 |issue=2 |pages=193–199 |url=https://serialsjournals.com/abstract/78963_2.pdf |quote=Here the analysis of genome wide data on Indian and East/Southeast Asian demonstrated their restricted distinctive ancestry in India mainly running along the foothills of Himalaya and northeastern part.}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;/ref&gt; The researchers however suggested that the East Asian ancestry (represented by the Han) measured in the studied Andamanese groups may actually reflect the capture of the affinity of the Andamanese with Melanesians and Malaysian Negritos (rather than true East Asian admixture),&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt; as a previous study by Chaubey et al. suggested &quot;a deep common ancestry&quot; between Andamanese, Melanesians and other Negrito groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt; and an affinity between Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians (as well as the Andamanese) with East Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |last2=Endicott |first2=Phillip |title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia |journal=Human Biology |date=June 2013 |volume=85 |issue=1–3 |pages=153–172 |doi=10.3378/027.085.0307 |pmid=24297224 |s2cid=7774927 |url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes &quot;The demographic impact of steppe related populations on South Asia was substantial, as the [[Mala (caste)|Mala]], a south Indian [[Dalit]] population with minimal Ancestral North Indian (ANI) ancestry still have ~ 18% [[steppe-related ancestry|steppe-related Yamnaya ancestry]], while the [[Kalash people|Kalash]] of Pakistan are inferred to have ~ 50% steppe-related Yamnaya ancestry, one of the highest percentage next to eastern Europeans at 51%.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Citation error. See inline comment how to fix. {{verify source |date=September 2019 |reason=This ref was deleted Special:Diff/909570260 by a bug in VisualEditor and later identified by a bot. The original cite can be found at Special:Permalink/909439483 (or in a rev close to it) in either cite #44 or cite #38 - find and verify the cite and replace this template with it (1). [[User:GreenC bot/Job 18]]}}&lt;/ref&gt; Lazaridis et al.'s 2016 study estimated (6.5–50.2%) steppe related admixture in South Asians. Lazaridis et al. further notes that &quot;A useful direction of future research is a more comprehensive sampling of ancient DNA from steppe populations, as well as populations of central Asia (east of Iran and south of the steppe), which may reveal more proximate sources of the ANI than the ones considered here, and of South Asia to determine the trajectory of population change in the area directly.<br /> <br /> Pathak et al. 2018 concluded that the [[Indo-European language|Indo-European]] speakers of [[Gangetic Plains]] and the [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speakers have significant [[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya Early-Middle Bronze Age]] (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry but no Middle-Late Bronze Age Steppe (Steppe_MLBA) ancestry. On the other hand, the &quot;North-Western Indian and Pakistani&quot; populations (PNWI) showed significant Steppe_MLBA ancestry along with Yamnaya (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry. The study also noted that ancient South Asian samples had significantly higher Steppe_MLBA than Steppe_EMBA (or Yamnaya). The study also suggested that the [[Ror]]s could be used as a proxy for the ANI.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pathak |first1=Ajai K. |last2=Kadian |first2=Anurag |last3=Kushniarevich |first3=Alena |last4=Montinaro |first4=Francesco |last5=Mondal |first5=Mayukh |last6=Ongaro |first6=Linda |last7=Singh |first7=Manvendra |last8=Kumar |first8=Pramod |last9=Rai |first9=Niraj |last10=Parik |first10=Jüri |last11=Metspalu |first11=Ene |last12=Rootsi |first12=Siiri |last13=Pagani |first13=Luca |last14=Kivisild |first14=Toomas |last15=Metspalu |first15=Mait |last16=Chaubey |first16=Gyaneshwer |last17=Villems |first17=Richard |title=The Genetic Ancestry of Modern Indus Valley Populations from Northwest India |journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics |date=December 2018 |volume=103 |issue=6 |pages=918–929 |doi=10.1016/j.ajhg.2018.10.022 |pmid=30526867 |pmc=6288199 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[David Reich (geneticist)|David Reich]] in his 2018 book ''[[Who We Are and How We Got Here]]'' states that the 2016 analyses found the ASI to have significant amounts of an ancestry component deriving from Iranian farmers (about 25% of their ancestry), with the remaining 75% of their ancestry deriving from native South Asian hunter-gatherers. He adds that ASI were unlikely the local hunter-gatherers of South Asia as previously established, but a population responsible for spreading agriculture throughout South Asia. In the case of the ANI, the Iranian farmer ancestry is 50%, with the rest being from steppe groups related to the Yamnaya.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last1=Reich |first1=David |title=Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the new science of the human past |date=2018 |publisher=OUP Oxford |isbn=978-0-19-257040-6 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=8NFeDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=Who+We+Are+and+How+We+Got+Here+asi&amp;pg=PT216 |access-date=2 March 2020 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}, similarly, conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI (ancient ancestral south Indian, i.e. hunter-gatherers sharing a distant root with the Andamanese, Australian Aboriginals, and East Asians); and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; (with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population).{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} The authors propose that the AASI indigenous hunter-gatherers represent a divergent branch that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge (Andamanese) and Australian Aboriginal ancestors separated from each other. It inferred, &quot;essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. (2019) however shows that modern South Asian populations are generally closest to West-Eurasians. They concluded that modern South Asians are basically a mixture of a native South Asian genetic component and a later-arriving West-Eurasian component (derived from both West Asia and the western Steppes). The authors also argue that the native South Asian genetic component is distinct from the Andamanese or East Asians, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect proxy. They propose that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (a group of predominantly ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians, as the Paniya are directly derived from the natives of South Asia, while the Onge may have received geneflow from other groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;auto&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from peoples related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers, with the Iranian-related ancestry being on average predominant. The samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI. The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;[[Steppe ancestry]]&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10|date = September 2019 | pmid = 31495572| pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Genetic distance between caste groups and tribes ====<br /> Studies by Watkins et al. (2005) and Kivisild et al. (2003) based on autosomal markers conclude that Indian caste and tribal populations have a common ancestry.&lt;ref name=&quot;kivisild2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Watkins2005 /&gt; Reddy et al. (2005) found fairly uniform allele frequency distributions across caste groups of southern [[Andhra Pradesh]], but significantly larger genetic distance between caste groups and tribes indicating [[genetic isolation]] of the tribes and castes.&lt;ref name=Reddy2005 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Viswanathan et al. (2004) in a study on genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India concludes, &quot;''Genetic differentiation was high and genetic distances were not significantly correlated with geographic distances. Genetic drift therefore probably played a significant role in shaping the patterns of genetic variation observed in southern Indian tribal populations.'' Otherwise, analyses of population relationships showed that all Indian and South Asian populations are still similar to one another, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and do not show any particular affinities to Africans. We conclude that the phenotypic similarities of some Indian groups to Africans ''do not'' reflect a close relationship between these groups, but are better explained by ''convergence''.&quot;&lt;ref name=Vishwanathan2004 /&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2011 study published in the [[American Journal of Human Genetics]]&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt; indicates that Indian ancestral components are the result of a more complex demographic history than was previously thought. According to the researchers, South Asia harbours two major ancestral components, one of which is spread at comparable frequency and genetic diversity in populations of Central Asia, West Asia and Europe; the other component is more restricted to South Asia. However, if one were to rule out the possibility of a large-scale Indo-Aryan migration, these findings suggest that the genetic affinities of both Indian ancestral components are the result of multiple gene flows over the course of thousands of years.&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt;&lt;!--{{Quote|Modeling of the observed haplotype diversities suggests that both Indian ancestry components are older than the purported Indo-Aryan invasion 3,500 YBP. Consistent with the results of pairwise genetic distances among world regions, Indians share more ancestry signals with West than with East Eurasians.}}--&gt;<br /> <br /> Narashimhan et al 2019 found Austroasiatic-speaking Munda tribals could not be modeled simply as mixture of ASI, AASI, ANI ancestry unlike other South Asians but required additional ancestry component from Southeast Asia. They were modeled as mixture of 48% AASI, 52% Austroasiatic-clad related to [[Nicobarese]] and 37% ASI ancestry, thus the ancestry profile of the Mundas provides an independent line of ancestry from Southeast Asia around the 3rd millennium BCE.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt; Lipson et al. 2018 found similar admixture results in regard to Munda tribals stating ''&quot;we obtained a good fit with three ancestry components: one western Eurasian, one deep eastern Eurasian (interpreted as an indigenous South Asian lineage), and one from the Austroasiatic clade&quot;''.&lt;ref&gt;lipson et al 2018&lt;/ref&gt; Lipson et al. 2018 further found the Austroasiatic source clad (proportion 35%) in Munda tribals was inferred to be closest to [[Mlabri]]. &lt;ref name=&quot;Lipson et al 2018&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Lipson |first1=Mark |last2=Cheronet |first2=Olivia |last3=Mallick |first3=Swapan |last4=Rohland |first4=Nadin |last5=Oxenham |first5=Marc |last6=Pietrusewsky |first6=Michael |last7=Oliver Pryce |first7=Thomas |last8=Willis |first8=Anna |last9=Matsumura |first9=Hirofumi |last10=Buckley |first10=Hallie |last11=Domett |first11=Kate |last12=Hai Nguyen |first12=Giang |last13=Hiep Trinh |first13=Hoang |last14=Kyaw |first14=Aung Aung |last15=Win |first15=Tin Tin |last16=Pradier |first16=Baptiste |last17=Broomandkhoshbacht |first17=Nasreen |last18=Candilio |first18=Francesca |last19=Changmai |first19=Piya |last20=Fernandes |first20=Daniel |last21=Ferry |first21=Matthew |last22=Gamarra |first22=Beatriz |last23=Harney |first23=Eadaoin |last24=Kampuansai |first24=Jatupol |last25=Kutanan |first25=Megan |last26=Novak |first26=Mario |last27=Oppenheimer |first27=Jonas |last28=Sirak |first28=Kendra |last29=Stewardson |first29=Kristin |last30=Zhang |first30=Zhao |last31=Flegontov |first31=Pavel |last32=Pinhasi |first32=Ron |last33=Reich |first33=David |title=Ancient genomes document multiple waves of migration in Southeast Asian prehistory |journal=Science |date=06 July 2018 |volume=361 |issue=6397 |pages=92-95 |doi=DOI: 10.1126/science.aat3188 |url=https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/92 |access-date=06 July 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt; Singh et al 2020 similarly found Austroasiatic speakers in South Asia fall out of the South Asian cline due to their Southeast Asian genetic affinity. <br /> &lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pratap Singh |first1=Prajjval |last2=Vishwakarma |first2=Shani |last3=Nahar Sultana |first3=Gazi Nurun |last4=Pilvar |first4=Arno |last5=Karmin |first5=Monika |last6=Rootsi |first6=Siiri |last7=Villems |first7=Richard |last8=Metspalu |first8=Mait |last9=M. Behar |first9=Doron |last10=Kivisild |first10=Toomas |last11=Van Driem |first11=George |last12=Chaubey |first12=Gyaneshwer |title=Dissecting the paternal founders of Mundari (Austroasiatic) speakers associated with the language dispersal in South Asia |journal=European Journal of Human Genetics |date=21 October 2020 |volume=172 |pages=1-5 |doi=https://doi.org/10.1038/s41431-020-00745-1 |url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-00745-1#citeas |access-date=21 October 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{Portal|Evolutionary biology}}<br /> *[[Archaeogenetics]]<br /> *[[Ethnic groups of South Asia]]<br /> *[[List of ethnolinguistic regions of South Asia]]<br /> *[[Peopling of India]]<br /> *[[Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of South Asia]]<br /> *[[Genetic studies on Gujarati people]]<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{Reflist|colwidth=30em|refs=<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Baig MM, Khan AA, Kulkarni KM | title = Mitochondrial DNA diversity in tribal and caste groups of Maharashtra (India) and its implication on their genetic origins | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 5 | pages = 453–60 | date = September 2004 | pmid = 15469422 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2004.00108.x | s2cid = 23032872 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Eaaswarkhanth2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Eaaswarkhanth M, Haque I, Ravesh Z, Romero IG, Meganathan PR, Dubey B, Khan FA, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Tyler-Smith C, Singh L, Thangaraj K | display-authors = 6 | title = Traces of sub-Saharan and Middle Eastern lineages in Indian Muslim populations | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 3 | pages = 354–63 | date = March 2010 | pmid = 19809480 | pmc = 2859343 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.168 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Firasat2007&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Firasat S, Khaliq S, Mohyuddin A, Papaioannou M, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Ayub Q | title = Y-chromosomal evidence for a limited Greek contribution to the Pathan population of Pakistan | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 15 | issue = 1 | pages = 121–6 | date = January 2007 | pmid = 17047675 | pmc = 2588664 | doi = 10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201726 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot;&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html |title=Y-DNA Haplogroup H and its Subclades – 2015 |access-date=11 October 2015 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151101022048/http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html |archive-date=1 November 2015 |url-status=live }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a&gt;{{citation |first1=Toomas |last1=Kivisild |author-link1=Toomas Kivisild |first2=Surinder S. |last2=Papiha |first3=Siiri |last3=Rootsi |first4=Jüri |last4=Parik |first5=Katrin |last5=Kaldma |first6=Maere |last6=Reidla |first7=Sirle |last7=Laos |first8=Mait |last8=Metspalu |first9=Gerli |last9=Pielberg |first10=Maa rja |last10=Adojaan |first11=Ene |last11=Metspalu |first12=Sarabjit S. |last12=Mastana |first13=Yiming |last13=Wang |first14=Mukaddes |last14=Golge |first15=Halil |last15=Demirtas |first16=Eckart |last16=Schnakenberg |first17=Gian Franco |last17=de Stefano |first18=Tarekegn |last18=Geberhiwot |first19=Mireille |last19=Claustres |first20=Richard |last20=Villems | name-list-style = vanc | display-authors = 6 |title=An Indian Ancestry: a Key for Understanding Human Diversity in Europe and Beyond |year=2000 |publisher=McDonald Institute Monographs | url= http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf |access-date=11 November 2005 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20060219054924/http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf |archive-date=19 February 2006 |url-status=live}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kumar2007&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kumar V, Reddy AN, Babu JP, Rao TN, Langstieh BT, Thangaraj K, Reddy AG, Singh L, Reddy BM | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 7 | pages = 47 | date = March 2007 | pmid = 17389048 | pmc = 1851701 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Manoukian&quot;&gt;Manoukian, Jean-Grégoire (2006), &quot;[http://www.ethnoancestry.com/index_files/index_data/Haplogroup_R2_Manoukian.pdf A Synthesis of Haplogroup R2 – 2006] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151001014558/http://www.ethnoancestry.com/index_files/index_data/Haplogroup_R2_Manoukian.pdf |date=1 October 2015 }}.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=mcDonald&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf |title=Y Haplogroups of the World, 2005, McDonald |access-date=24 October 2006 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20040728005528/http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf |archive-date=28 July 2004 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Metspalu2011&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Mirabal2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mirabal S, Regueiro M, Cadenas AM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA, Verbenko DA, Limborska SA, Herrera RJ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome distribution within the geo-linguistic landscape of northwestern Russia | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 17 | issue = 10 | pages = 1260–73 | date = October 2009 | pmid = 19259129 | pmc = 2986641 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.6 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Moorjani2013&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | author7-link = Bonnie Berger }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Reddy2005&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Reddy BM, Naidu VM, Madhavi VK, Thangaraj LK, Kumar V, Langstieh BT, Venkatramana P, Reddy AG, Singh L | s2cid = 18446485 | display-authors = 6 | title = Microsatellite diversity in Andhra Pradesh, India: genetic stratification versus social stratification | journal = Human Biology | volume = 77 | issue = 6 | pages = 803–23 | date = December 2005 | pmid = 16715839 | doi = 10.1353/hub.2006.0018 | url = http://dspace.nehu.ac.in/handle/1/1547 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Sahoo2006&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sahoo S, Singh A, Himabindu G, Banerjee J, Sitalaximi T, Gaikwad S, Trivedi R, Endicott P, Kivisild T, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kashyap VK | display-authors = 6 | title = A prehistory of Indian Y chromosomes: evaluating demic diffusion scenarios | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 103 | issue = 4 | pages = 843–8 | date = January 2006 | pmid = 16415161 | pmc = 1347984 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.0507714103 | bibcode = 2006PNAS..103..843S }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Sharma2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sharma S, Rai E, Sharma P, Jena M, Singh S, Darvishi K, Bhat AK, Bhanwer AJ, Tiwari PK, Bamezai RN | s2cid = 22162114 | display-authors = 6 | title = The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 54 | issue = 1 | pages = 47–55 | date = January 2009 | pmid = 19158816 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2008.2 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Puente XS, Velasco G, Gutiérrez-Fernández A, Bertranpetit J, King MC, López-Otín C | title = Comparative analysis of cancer genes in the human and chimpanzee genomes | journal = BMC Genomics | volume = 7 | pages = 15 | date = January 2006 | pmid = 16438707 | pmc = 1382208 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2164-7-15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Thangaraj2010&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thangaraj K, Naidu BP, Crivellaro F, Tamang R, Upadhyay S, Sharma VK, Reddy AG, Walimbe SR, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = The influence of natural barriers in shaping the genetic structure of Maharashtra populations | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 5 | issue = 12 | pages = e15283 | date = December 2010 | pmid = 21187967 | pmc = 3004917 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0015283 | editor1-last = Cordaux | bibcode = 2010PLoSO...515283T | editor1-first = Richard }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thanseem I, Thangaraj K, Chaubey G, Singh VK, Bhaskar LV, Reddy BM, Reddy AG, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic affinities among the lower castes and tribal groups of India: inference from Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 7 | pages = 42 | date = August 2006 | pmid = 16893451 | pmc = 1569435 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-7-42}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Tripathy2008&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Tripathy |first1=Vikal |last2=Nirmala |first2=A. |last3=Reddy |first3=B. Mohan |s2cid=12763485 |title=Trends in Molecular Anthropological Studies in India |journal=International Journal of Human Genetics |date=4 September 2017 |volume=8 |issue=1–2 |pages=1–20 |doi=10.1080/09723757.2008.11886015 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Vishwanathan2004&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | s2cid = 24230856 | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Watkins2005&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Watkins WS, Prasad BV, Naidu JM, Rao BB, Bhanu BA, Ramachandran B, Das PK, Gai PB, Reddy PC, Reddy PG, Sethuraman M, Bamshad MJ, Jorde LB | display-authors = 6 | title = Diversity and divergence among the tribal populations of India | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 69 | issue = Pt 6 | pages = 680–92 | date = November 2005 | pmid = 16266407 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2005.00200.x | s2cid = 31907598 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Zhao2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao Z, Khan F, Borkar M, Herrera R, Agrawal S | title = Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: a study of 560 Y chromosomes | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 36 | issue = 1 | pages = 46–59 | year = 2009 | pmid = 19058044 | pmc = 2755252 | doi = 10.1080/03014460802558522 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Bamshad2001&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Bamshad M, Kivisild T, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Ricker CE, Rao BB, Naidu JM, Prasad BV, Reddy PG, Rasanayagam A, Papiha SS, Villems R, Redd AJ, Hammer MF, Nguyen SV, Carroll ML, Batzer MA, Jorde LB | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence on the origins of Indian caste populations | journal = Genome Research | volume = 11 | issue = 6 | pages = 994–1004 | date = June 2001 | pmid = 11381027 | pmc = 311057 | doi = 10.1101/gr.GR-1733RR }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Basu2003&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Mukherjee N, Roy S, Sengupta S, Banerjee S, Chakraborty M, Dey B, Roy M, Roy B, Bhattacharyya NP, Roychoudhury S, Majumder PP | display-authors = 6 | title = Ethnic India: a genomic view, with special reference to peopling and structure | journal = Genome Research | volume = 13 | issue = 10 | pages = 2277–90 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 14525929 | pmc = 403703 | doi = 10.1101/gr.1413403 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild1999a&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Kivisild |first1=T. |last2=Bamshad |first2=M.J. |last3=Kaldma |first3=K. |last4=Metspalu |first4=M. |last5=Metspalu |first5=E. |last6=Reidla |first6=M. |last7=Laos |first7=S. |last8=Parik |first8=J. |last9=Watkins |first9=W.S. |last10=Dixon |first10=M.E. |last11=Papiha |first11=S.S. |last12=Mastana |first12=S.S. |last13=Mir |first13=M.R. |last14=Ferak |first14=V. |last15=Villems |first15=R. |s2cid=2821966 |title=Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages |journal=Current Biology |date=November 1999 |volume=9 |issue=22 |pages=1331–1334 |doi=10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 |pmid=10574762 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha S, Villems R |author-link1=Toomas Kivisild |doi=10.1007/978-1-4615-4263-6_11 | chapter =The Place of the Indian Mitochondrial DNA Variants in the Global Network of Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World |title =Genomic Diversity |year=1999 |isbn=978-1-4613-6914-1 |pages=135–152 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Underhill2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Myres NM, Rootsi S, Metspalu M, Zhivotovsky LA, King RJ, Lin AA, Chow CE, Semino O, Battaglia V, Kutuev I, Järve M, Chaubey G, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Mehdi SQ, Sengupta S, Rogaev EI, Khusnutdinova EK, Pshenichnov A, Balanovsky O, Balanovska E, Jeran N, Augustin DH, Baldovic M, Herrera RJ, Thangaraj K, Singh V, Singh L, Majumder P, Rudan P, Primorac D, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 4 | pages = 479–84 | date = April 2010 | pmid = 19888303 | pmc = 2987245 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.194 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Majumder2010&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Majumder PP | s2cid = 1490419 | title = The human genetic history of South Asia | journal = Current Biology | volume = 20 | issue = 4 | pages = R184-7 | date = February 2010 | pmid = 20178765 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2009.11.053 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Mukherjee2001&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | s2cid = 13267463 | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/BF02717908 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Reich2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> }}<br /> <br /> === Further reading ===<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Allikas A, Ord D, Kurg R, Kivi S, Ustav M | title = Roles of the hinge region and the DNA binding domain of the bovine papillomavirus type 1 E2 protein in initiation of DNA replication | journal = Virus Research | volume = 75 | issue = 2 | pages = 95–106 | date = June 2001 | pmid = 11325464 | doi = 10.1016/S0168-1702(01)00219-2 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Behar DM, Garrigan D, Kaplan ME, Mobasher Z, Rosengarten D, Karafet TM, Quintana-Murci L, Ostrer H, Skorecki K, Hammer MF | s2cid = 10310338 | display-authors = 6 | title = Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome variation in Ashkenazi Jewish and host non-Jewish European populations | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 4 | pages = 354–65 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 14740294 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1073-7 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Bhattacharyya NP, Basu P, Das M, Pramanik S, Banerjee R, Roy B, Roychoudhury S, Majumder PP | display-authors = 6 | title = Negligible male gene flow across ethnic boundaries in India, revealed by analysis of Y-chromosomal DNA polymorphisms | journal = Genome Research | volume = 9 | issue = 8 | pages = 711–9 | date = August 1999 | pmid = 10447506 | doi = 10.1101/gr.9.8.711 | url = http://genome.cshlp.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&amp;pmid=10447506 | doi-broken-date = 3 February 2021 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Cann RL | s2cid = 19367408 | title = Genetic clues to dispersal in human populations: retracing the past from the present | journal = Science | volume = 291 | issue = 5509 | pages = 1742–8 | date = March 2001 | pmid = 11249820 | doi = 10.1126/science.1058948 | bibcode = 2001Sci...291.1742C }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Cinnioğlu C, King R, Kivisild T, Kalfoğlu E, Atasoy S, Cavalleri GL, Lillie AS, Roseman CC, Lin AA, Prince K, Oefner PJ, Shen P, Semino O, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA | s2cid = 10763736 | display-authors = 6 | title = Excavating Y-chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 2 | pages = 127–48 | date = January 2004 | pmid = 14586639 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1031-4 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Das B, Chauhan PS, Seshadri M | s2cid = 12835244 | title = Minimal sharing of Y-chromosome STR haplotypes among five endogamous population groups from western and southwestern India | journal = Human Biology | volume = 76 | issue = 5 | pages = 743–63 | date = October 2004 | pmid = 15757245 | doi = 10.1353/hub.2005.0003 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last1 = Hemphill | first1 = Brian E. | last2 = Christensen | first2 = Alexander F. | name-list-style = vanc | title = The Oxus Civilization as a Link between East and West: A Non-Metric Analysis of Bronze Age Bactrain Biological Affinities | date = 3 November 1994 | location = Madison, Wisconsin | page = 13}} (paper read at the South Asia Conference)<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Jobling MA, Tyler-Smith C | s2cid = 13508130 | title = The human Y chromosome: an evolutionary marker comes of age | journal = Nature Reviews. Genetics | volume = 4 | issue = 8 | pages = 598–612 | date = August 2003 | pmid = 12897772 | doi = 10.1038/nrg1124 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Rootsi S, Metspalu M, Mastana S, Kaldma K, Parik J, Metspalu E, Adojaan M, Tolk HV, Stepanov V, Gölge M, Usanga E, Papiha SS, Cinnioğlu C, King R, Cavalli-Sforza L, Underhill PA, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic heritage of the earliest settlers persists both in Indian tribal and caste populations | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 2 | pages = 313–32 | date = February 2003 | pmid = 12536373 | pmc = 379225 | doi = 10.1086/346068 | author-link1 = Toomas Kivisild }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Patowary A, Purkanti R, Singh M, Chauhan RK, Bhartiya D, Dwivedi OP, Chauhan G, Bharadwaj D, Sivasubbu S, Scaria V | s2cid = 11466942 | display-authors = 6 | title = Systematic analysis and functional annotation of variations in the genome of an Indian individual | journal = Human Mutation | volume = 33 | issue = 7 | pages = 1133–40 | date = July 2012 | pmid = 22461382 | doi = 10.1002/humu.22091 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Rootsi S, Magri C, Kivisild T, Benuzzi G, Help H, Bermisheva M, Kutuev I, Barać L, Pericić M, Balanovsky O, Pshenichnov A, Dion D, Grobei M, Zhivotovsky LA, Battaglia V, Achilli A, Al-Zahery N, Parik J, King R, Cinnioğlu C, Khusnutdinova E, Rudan P, Balanovska E, Scheffrahn W, Simonescu M, Brehm A, Goncalves R, Rosa A, Moisan JP, Chaventre A, Ferak V, Füredi S, Oefner PJ, Shen P, Beckman L, Mikerezi I, Terzić R, Primorac D, Cambon-Thomsen A, Krumina A, Torroni A, Underhill PA, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Villems R, Semino O | display-authors = 6 | title = Phylogeography of Y-chromosome haplogroup I reveals distinct domains of prehistoric gene flow in europe | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 75 | issue = 1 | pages = 128–37 | date = July 2004 | pmid = 15162323 | pmc = 1181996 | doi = 10.1086/422196 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Qamar R, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Helgason A, Mazhar K, Mansoor A, Zerjal T, Tyler-Smith C, Mehdi SQ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 5 | pages = 1107–24 | date = May 2002 | pmid = 11898125 | pmc = 447589 | doi = 10.1086/339929 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Semino O, Magri C, Benuzzi G, Lin AA, Al-Zahery N, Battaglia V, Maccioni L, Triantaphyllidis C, Shen P, Oefner PJ, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Torroni A, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS | display-authors = 6 | title = Origin, diffusion, and differentiation of Y-chromosome haplogroups E and J: inferences on the neolithization of Europe and later migratory events in the Mediterranean area | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 74 | issue = 5 | pages = 1023–34 | date = May 2004 | pmid = 15069642 | pmc = 1181965 | doi = 10.1086/386295 }}<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> == Sources ==<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * {{cite journal | author = Indian Genome Variation Consortium | s2cid = 21473349 | title = Genetic landscape of the people of India: a canvas for disease gene exploration | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 87 | issue = 1 | pages = 3–20 | date = April 2008 | pmid = 18560169 | doi = 10.1007/s12041-008-0002-x }}<br /> &lt;!-- E --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Endicott |first1=Phillip |last2=Metspalu |first2=Mait |last3=Kivisild |first3=Toomas | name-list-style = vanc |chapter=Genetic evidence on modern human dispersals in South Asia: Y chromose and mitochondrial DNA perspectives |editor1=Michael D. Petraglia |editor2=Bridget Allchin |title=The Evolution and History of Human Populations in South Asia |publisher=Springer |year=2007 |isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 |pages=201–228 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC&amp;pg=PA201}}<br /> &lt;!-- H --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Hemphill |first1=B.E. |last2=Lukacs |first2=J.R. |last3=Kennedy |first3=K.A.R. | name-list-style = vanc |chapter=Biological Adaptations and Affinities of Bronze Age Harappans |editor1-first=Richard H. |editor1-last=Meadow |title=Harappa excavations 1986–1990: a multidisciplinary approach to third millennium urbanism |year=1991 |pages=137–82 |isbn=978-0-9629110-1-9 }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{Cite book | last1 = Kennedy | first1 = Kenneth A.R. | name-list-style = vanc | author-link = Kenneth A.R. Kennedy | chapter = A Reassessment of the Theories of Racial Origins of the People of the Indus Valley Civilization from Recent Anthropological Data | title = Studies in the Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology of South Asia | pages = 99–107 | editor1-last = Kennedy | editor1-first = Kenneth A.R. | editor2-last = Possehl | editor2-first = Gregory L. | publisher = Humanities Press | year = 1984 | location = [[Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey|Atlantic Highlands, NJ]]}}&lt;!--? Oxford: American Institute of Indian Studies--&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Kennedy |first=Kenneth A. R. | name-list-style = vanc |year=1995 |chapter=Have Aryans been identified in the prehistoric skeletal record from South Asia? |editor=George Erdosy |title=The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia |publisher=Walter de Gruyter |isbn=978-3-11-014447-5 |pages=49–54 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=A6ZRShEIFwMC&amp;pg=PA49}}<br /> * {{Cite book | last = Kivisild | first = Toomas | name-list-style = vanc | title = The origins of southern and western Eurasian populations: an mtDNA study | publisher = Tartu University, Estonia | year = 2000b | url = http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000PhD.pdf }} (PhD)<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Mascarenhas DD, Raina A, Aston CE, Sanghera DK | title = Genetic and Cultural Reconstruction of the Migration of an Ancient Lineage | journal = BioMed Research International | volume = 2015 | pages = 651415 | year = 2015 | pmid = 26491681 | pmc = 4605215 | doi = 10.1155/2015/651415 }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | s2cid =89658279 | name-list-style = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | biorxiv =10.1101/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 | hdl =21.11116/0000-0001-E7B3-0 | hdl-access =free }}<br /> &lt;!-- O --&gt;<br /> * {{Cite book | last = Oppenheimer | first = Stephen | name-list-style = vanc | author-link = Stephen Oppenheimer | title = The Real Eve: Modern Man's Journey out of Africa | year = 2003 | location = New York | publisher = Carroll and Graf Publishers | isbn = 978-0-7867-1192-5}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation | last1 =Pamjav | s2cid =4820868 | title =Brief communication: New Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1 | journal =American Journal of Physical Anthropology| volume= 149| issue= 4| pages= 611–615|date= December 2012 | doi=10.1002/ajpa.22167 | pmid=23115110}}<br /> * {{Cite book | year = 2000a | title = An Indian Ancestry: a Key for Understanding Human Diversity in Europe and Beyond | editor1-last = Renfrew | editor1-first = Colin | editor2-last = Boyle | editor2-first = Katie | name-list-style = vanc | url = http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf | isbn= 978-1-902937-08-3}}<br /> &lt;!-- S --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Silva M, Oliveira M, Vieira D, Brandão A, Rito T, Pereira JB, Fraser RM, Hudson B, Gandini F, Edwards C, Pala M, Koch J, Wilson JF, Pereira L, Richards MB, Soares P | display-authors = 6 | title = A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 17 | issue = 1 | pages = 88 | date = March 2017 | pmid = 28335724 | pmc = 5364613 | doi = 10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 |ref={{sfnref|Silva et al.|2017}}}}<br /> &lt;!-- U --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA | s2cid = 15527457 | title = Inferring human history: clues from Y-chromosome haplotypes | journal = Cold Spring Harbor Symposia on Quantitative Biology | volume = 68 | pages = 487–93 | year = 2003 | pmid = 15338652 | doi = 10.1101/sqb.2003.68.487 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Poznik GD, Rootsi S, Järve M, Lin AA, Wang J, Passarelli B, Kanbar J, Myres NM, King RJ, Di Cristofaro J, Sahakyan H, Behar DM, Kushniarevich A, Sarac J, Saric T, Rudan P, Pathak AK, Chaubey G, Grugni V, Semino O, Yepiskoposyan L, Bahmanimehr A, Farjadian S, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Herrera RJ, Chiaroni J, Bustamante CD, Quake SR, Kivisild T, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 23 | issue = 1 | pages = 124–31 | date = January 2015 | pmid = 24667786 | pmc = 4266736 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2014.50 }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | vauthors = Wells S |year=2003 |title=The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | url = https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well | url-access = registration |publisher=Princeton University Press}}<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> {{Wikiquote}}<br /> * [http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/NewWebSurnames041008.html ''Introduction to Haplogroups and Haplotypes''], Mark A. Jobling, University of Leicester. [http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/SurnamesForWeb.pdf ]<br /> * [http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ Journey of Man: Peopling of the World], Bradshaw Foundation, in association with [[Stephen Oppenheimer]].<br /> *[http://igvdb.res.in/ Indian Genome Variation Database] [[Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology]]<br /> * [http://sites.google.com/site/r2dnainfo/R2-Home/r2-dna/r2-frequency/r2-frequencies-worldwide?pli=1 List of R2 frequency]<br /> * [http://maldives-ancestry.blogspot.in/2013/05/maldivian-ancestry-in-light-of-genetics.html Maldives]<br /> <br /> {{Human genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Human Y-DNA haplogroups|+]]<br /> [[Category:Human genetics|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Modern human genetic history|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Genetics by country|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:South Asia]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetics_and_archaeogenetics_of_South_Asia&diff=1012687785 Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia 2021-03-17T19:22:02Z <p>Ilber8000: POV misinterpretation of study by anonymous user below about Y-STR Y-DNA back-migration of Asian clads to West Euasia/Africa, it's not* about Autosomal DNA (See also Pille Hallast et al. 2020).</p> <hr /> <div>{{EngvarB|date=November 2019}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=March 2020}}<br /> '''Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia''' is the study of the [[genetics]] and [[archaeogenetics]] of the [[ethnic groups of South Asia]]. It aims at uncovering these groups' [[genetic history]]. The geographic position of South Asia makes its biodiversity important for the study of the early dispersal of [[anatomically modern human]]s across [[Asia]].<br /> <br /> Studies based on Mitochondrial DNA ([[mtDNA]]) variations have reported genetic unity across various South Asian sub–populations, showing that most of the ancestral nodes of the phylogenetic tree of all the mtDNA types originated in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt; Conclusions of studies based on Y Chromosome variation and Autosomal DNA variation have been varied. Recent genome studies appear to show that most South Asians are descendants of two major ancestral components, one restricted to South Asia (''Ancestral South Indian'', derived from West-Eurasian[[Indus Valley Civilisation|IVC]]-people and a distinctive native South Asian population, which was distantly related to the Andamanese and East Asians), and the other component (''Ancestral North Indian,'' derived from West-Eurasian IVC-people and [[Pontic steppe|Pontic Steppe-pastoralists]], making them closely related to those in [[Central Asia]], [[West Asia]] and [[Europe]].&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Moorjani2013 /&gt;{{sfn|Silva et al.|2017}} Basu et al. (2016) identified two more ancestral components in mainland India, denoted as ''AAA'' and ''ATB'', that are major for the Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribals and the Tibeto-Burman speakers respectively. The study also infers that the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which &quot;was found to be coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations&quot; and distant from contemporary South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2016&quot;/&gt; Yelmen et al. 2019 concluded that the AASI (Ancient Ancestral South Indians) form their own ancestral clade, best represented by the indigenous tribes, such as the [[Irula people]] and [[Paniya people]].&lt;ref name=&quot;auto&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Yelmen|first1=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=1 August 2019|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt; The East Asian ancestry component detected in India is mainly restricted to specific populations in the [[Himalayan foothills]] and [[Northeast India]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |last2=Kadian |first2=Anurag |last3=Bala |first3=Saroj |last4=Rao |first4=Vadlamudi Raghavendra |url=https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0127655|s2cid=848806 |title=Genetic Affinity of the Bhil, Kol and Gond Mentioned in Epic Ramayana |journal=PLOS ONE |date=10 June 2015 |volume=10 |issue=6 |pages=e0127655 |doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0127655 |pmid=26061398 |pmc=4465503 |bibcode=2015PLoSO..1027655C |language=en |issn=1932-6203}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> It has been found that the ancestral node of the phylogenetic tree of all the [[mtDNA]] types ([[mitochondrial DNA haplogroup]]s) typically found in Central Asia, the West Asia and Europe are also to be found in South Asia at relatively high frequencies. The inferred divergence of this common ancestral node is estimated to have occurred slightly less than 50,000 years ago, supporting an &quot;Out-of-India&quot; event for West-Eurasian populations such as Europeans, during the early Paleolithic.&lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a /&gt; In India, the major maternal lineages are various [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]] subclades, followed by [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] sublineages. These mitochondrial haplogroups' coalescence times have been approximated to date to 50,000 BP.&lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a /&gt;<br /> <br /> The major paternal lineages of Indians, represented by [[Y chromosome]]s, are haplogroups [[Haplogroup R1a1|R1a1]], [[Haplogroup R2|R2]], [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|H]], [[Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)|L]] and [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]], all common in modern day West-Eurasians, such as Middle Easterners and Europeans. The ancestral lineages are suggested to have diverged within South Asia and than spreaded to Europe and northern Africa respectively.&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt; Some researchers have argued that Y-DNA Haplogroup R1a1 (M17) is of [[autochthon (person)|autochthonous]] South Asian origin.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; However, proposals for a Central Asian origin for R1a1 are also quite common.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> == Overview ==<br /> All the mtDNA and Y-chromosome lineages outside Africa descend from three founder lineages:<br /> * [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N]] and [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] haplogroups for mtDNA and<br /> * [[Haplogroup C (Y-DNA)|C]], [[Haplogroup D (Y-DNA)|D]] and [[Haplogroup F* (Y-DNA)|F]] haplogroups for the Y-chromosome.<br /> All these six founder haplogroups can be found in the present day populations of [[South Asia]]. Moreover, the mtDNA haplogroup M and the Y-chromosome haplogroups C and D are restricted to the area ''east'' of South Asia. All the West [[Eurasian]] populations derive from the N and R haplogroups of mtDNA and the F haplogroup of the Y-chromosome.{{sfn|Endicott|Metspalu|Kivisild|2007|p=231}}<br /> <br /> Endicott et al. state that these facts are consistent with the hypothesis of a single exodus from East Africa 65,000 years ago via a [[Recent African origin of modern humans#Movement out of Africa|southern coastal route]], with the West Eurasian lineages separating from the South Asian lineages somewhere between East/Northeast Africa and South Asia.{{sfn|Endicott|Metspalu|Kivisild|2007|pp=234–235}}<br /> <br /> The predominant majority genome markers of South Asians are all closely related to [[West Eurasians]] and may have either originated in [[Western Asia]] or [[South Asia]] itself.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Das |first1=Ranajit |last2=Upadhyai |first2=Priyanka |s2cid=88966532 |title=Tracing the biogeographical origin of South Asian populations using DNA SatNav |journal=bioRxiv |date=25 November 2016 |pages=089466 |doi=10.1101/089466 |quote=Our hypothesis is supported by archaeological, linguistic and genetic evidences that suggest that there were two prominent waves of immigrations to India. A majority of the Early Caucasoids were proto-Dravidian language speakers that migrated to India putatively ~ 6000 YBP.}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Full genome analyses in 2020 reveals that the Indian people (majority of the South Asian ethnic groups) are closely related to various West-Eurasian populations, such as Europeans and Middle Easterners. Some forest tribes however have rather diverse ancestry and are shifted towards non-West-Eurasian groups.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|date=2020-12-01|title=The Y-chromosome of the Soliga, an ancient forest-dwelling tribe of South India|url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590158319300233|journal=Gene: X|language=en|volume=5|pages=100026|doi=10.1016/j.gene.2019.100026|issn=2590-1583}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == mtDNA ==<br /> {{See also|Recent single origin hypothesis}}<br /> [[File:Peopling of eurasia.jpg|thumb|300px|Hypothesized map of human migration into [[South Asia]] based on [[mitochondrial DNA]] and possible dispersal routes.]]<br /> The most frequent [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|mtDNA haplogroups]] in South Asia are [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] (where U is a descendant of R).&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt;<br /> <br /> Arguing for the longer term &quot;rival Y-Chromosome model&quot;,&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt; [[Stephen Oppenheimer]] believes that it is highly suggestive that India is the origin of the [[Eurasia]]n [[mtDNA]] haplogroups which he calls the &quot;Eurasian Eves&quot;. According to Oppenheimer it is highly probable that nearly all human maternal lineages in Central Asia, the Middle East and Europe descended from only four mtDNA lines that originated in South Asia 50,000–100,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Oppenheimer|2003}}{{page needed|date=December 2013}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Macrohaplogroup M ===<br /> The [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup M]], which is considered as a cluster of the proto-Asian maternal lineages,&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt; represents more than 60% of South Asian MtDNA.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> The M macrohaplotype in India includes many subgroups that differ profoundly from other sublineages in East Asia especially Mongoloid populations.&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt; The deep roots of M phylogeny clearly ascertain the relic of South Asian lineages as compared to other M sub lineages (in East Asia and elsewhere) suggesting 'in-situ' origin of these sub-haplogroups in South Asia, most likely in India. These deep rooting lineages are not language specific and spread over all the language groups in India.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Virtually all modern Central Asian MtDNA M lineages seem to belong to the Eastern Eurasian ([[Mongoloid|Mongolian]]) rather than the South Asian subtypes of haplogroup M, which indicates that no large-scale migration from the present [[Turkic languages|Turkic]]-speaking populations of Central Asia occurred to India. The absence of haplogroup M in Europeans, compared to its equally high frequency among South Asians, East Asians and in some Central Asian populations contrasts with the Western Eurasian leanings of South Asian paternal lineages.&lt;ref name =Kivisild2000a /&gt;<br /> <br /> Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans.&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Important Sub clades || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! M2<br /> || M2a, M2b || Throughout the continent with low presence in Northwest &lt;br /&gt; Peaking in Bangladesh, Andhra Pradesh, coastal Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka<br /> |-<br /> ! M3<br /> || M3a || Concentrated into northwestern India &lt;br /&gt; Highest amongst the Parsees of Mumbai<br /> |-<br /> ! M4<br /> || M4a || Peaks in Pakistan, Kashmir and Andhra Pradesh<br /> |-<br /> ! M6<br /> || M6a, M6b || Kashmir and near the coasts of the Bay of Bengal, Sri Lanka<br /> |-<br /> ! M18<br /> || || Throughout South Asia&lt;br /&gt; Peaking at Rajasthan and Andhra Pradesh<br /> |-<br /> ! M25<br /> || || Moderately frequent in Kerala and Maharashtra but rather infrequent elsewhere in India<br /> |}<br /> <br /> === Macrohaplogroup R ===<br /> <br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | width = 130<br /> | image1=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-2.jpg<br /> | image2=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-1.jpg<br /> | image3=Most-of-the-extant-mtDNA-boundaries-in-South-and-Southwest-Asia-were-likely-shaped-during-the-1471-2156-5-26-3.jpg<br /> | footer = The spatial distribution of [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R]] and [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|U]] mtDNA haplogroups and their sub-haplogroups in South Asia. <br /> }}<br /> <br /> The [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup R]] (a very large and old subdivision of [[Haplogroup N (mtDNA)|macrohaplogroup N]]) is also widely represented and accounts for the other 40% of South Asian MtDNA. A very old and most important subdivision of it is [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|haplogroup U]] that, while also present in [[West Eurasia]], has several subclades specific to South Asia.<br /> <br /> Most important South Asian haplogroups within R:&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! R2<br /> || Distributed widely across the sub continent<br /> |-<br /> ! R5<br /> || widely distributed by most of India. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks in coastal SW India<br /> |-<br /> ! R6<br /> || widespread at low rates across India. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks among Tamils and Kashmiris<br /> |-<br /> ! W<br /> || Found in northwestern states. &lt;br /&gt; Peaks in Gujarat, Punjab and Kashmir, frequency is low elsewhere.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> ==== Haplogroup U ====<br /> [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|Haplogroup U]] is a sub-haplogroup of macrohaplogroup R.&lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot; /&gt; The distribution of haplogroup U is a mirror image of that for haplogroup M: the former has not been described so far among eastern Asians but is frequent in European populations as well as among South Asians.&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999a /&gt; South Asian U lineages differ substantially from those in Europe and their coalescence to a common ancestor also dates back to about 50,000 years.&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b /&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:left; font-size: 90%&quot;<br /> |-<br /> ! Haplogroup || Populations<br /> |-<br /> ! U2*<br /> || (a [[parahaplogroup]]) is sparsely distributed specially in the northern half of the South Asia.<br /> It is also found in SW Arabia.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2a<br /> || shows relatively high density in Pakistan and NW India but also in Karnataka, where it reaches its higher density.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2b<br /> || has highest concentration in Uttar Pradesh but is also found in many other places, specially in Kerala and Sri Lanka.<br /> It is also found in Oman.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2c<br /> || is specially important in Bangladesh and West Bengal.<br /> |-<br /> ! U2l<br /> || is maybe the most important numerically among U subclades in South Asia, reaching specially high concentrations (over 10%) in Uttar Pradesh, Sri Lanka, Sindh and parts of Karnataka. It also has some importance in Oman. [[mtDNA haplogroup U2i]] is dubbed &quot;Western Eurasian&quot; in Bamshad ''et al.'' study but &quot;Eastern Eurasian (mostly India specific)&quot; in Kivisild ''et al.'' study.<br /> |-<br /> ! U7<br /> || this haplogroup has a significant presence in Gujarat, Punjab and Pakistan. The possible homeland of this haplogroup spans Gujarat (highest frequency, 12%) and Iran because from there its frequency declines steeply both to the east and to the west.<br /> |}<br /> <br /> == Y chromosome ==<br /> [[File:Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG|thumb|350px|The diversion of [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants.]]<br /> '''{{details|topic=individual groups by Y-DNA|Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of South Asia}}'''<br /> The major South Asian Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups are [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|H]], [[Haplogroup J-M172|J2]], [[Haplogroup L-M20|L]], [[Haplogroup R1a1|R1a1]] and [[Haplogroup R2a|R2]], typically West-Eurasian haplogroups shared with Europeans and Middle Easterners.&lt;ref name=mcDonald /&gt; Their geographical origins are listed as follows, according to the latest scholarship:<br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; border=&quot;1&quot;<br /> !width=16%|Major South Asian Y-chromosomal lineages:<br /> !width=16%|H<br /> !width=16%|J2<br /> !width=16%|L<br /> !width=16%|R1a<br /> !width=16%|R2<br /> |- valign=top<br /> !Basu ''et al.'' (2003)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |Central Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Kivisild ''et al.'' (2003)<br /> |India<br /> |Western Asia<br /> |India<br /> |Southern and Western Asia<br /> |South-Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Cordaux ''et al.'' (2004)<br /> |India<br /> |West or Central Asia<br /> |Middle Eastern<br /> |Central Asia<br /> |South-Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Sengupta ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |India<br /> |The Middle East and Central Asia<br /> |South India<br /> |North India<br /> |North India<br /> |-<br /> !Thanseem ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |India<br /> |The Levant<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |Southern and Central Asia<br /> |Southern and Central Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Sahoo ''et al.'' (2006)<br /> |South Asia<br /> |The Near East<br /> |South Asia<br /> |South or West Asia<br /> |South Asia<br /> |-<br /> !Mirabal ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |Northwestern India or Central Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Zhao ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |India<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |The Middle East<br /> |Central Asia or West Eurasia<br /> |Central Asia or West Eurasia<br /> |-<br /> !Sharma ''et al.'' (2009)<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |no comment<br /> |South Asia<br /> |no comment<br /> |-<br /> !Thangaraj ''et al.'' (2010)<br /> |South Asia<br /> |The Near East<br /> |The Near East<br /> |South Asia<br /> |South Asia<br /> |}<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup H ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)}}<br /> <br /> [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)]] is found at a high frequency in South Asia. H is today rarely found outside of the South Asia but is common among the [[Romanis]], particularly the H-M82 subgroup. H was also quite common in ancient samples of Europe and is still found today at a low frequency in Europeans and Arabs of the [[Levant]]. Haplogroup H is frequently found among populations of [[India]], [[Sri Lanka]], [[Nepal]], [[Pakistan]] and the [[Maldives]]. All three branches of [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)]] are found in South Asia.<br /> <br /> It is a branch of [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and descends from [[Haplogroup GHIJK|GHIJK]] family. [[Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup H]] is believed to have arisen in South Asia between 30,000 and 40,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot; /&gt; Its probable site of introduction is South Asia, since it is concentrated there. It seems to represent the main Y-Chromosome haplogroup of the paleolithic inhabitants of South Asia and Europe respectively. Some individuals in South Asia have also been shown to belong to the much rarer subclade H3 (Z5857).&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot; /&gt; Haplogroup H is by no means restricted to specific populations. For example, H is possessed by about 28.8% of Indo-Aryan castes.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; and in tribals about 25–35%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup J2 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)}}<br /> Haplogroup J2 has been present in South Asia mostly as J2a-M410 and J2b-M102, since neolithic times (9500 YBP).&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Singh |first1=Sakshi |last2=Singh |first2=Ashish |last3=Rajkumar |first3=Raja |last4=Sampath Kumar |first4=Katakam |last5=Kadarkarai Samy |first5=Subburaj |last6=Nizamuddin |first6=Sheikh |last7=Singh |first7=Amita |last8=Ahmed Sheikh |first8=Shahnawaz |last9=Peddada |first9=Vidya |last10=Khanna |first10=Vinee |last11=Veeraiah |first11=Pandichelvam |last12=Pandit |first12=Aridaman |last13=Chaubey |first13=Gyaneshwer |last14=Singh |first14=Lalji |last15=Thangaraj |first15=Kumarasamy |title=Dissecting the influence of Neolithic demic diffusion on Indian Y-chromosome pool through J2-M172 haplogroup |journal=Scientific Reports |date=12 January 2016 |volume=6 |issue=1 |page=19157 |doi=10.1038/srep19157 |pmid=26754573 |pmc=4709632 |bibcode=2016NatSR...619157S |language=en |issn=2045-2322}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Herrera2018&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Herrera |first1=Rene J. |last2=Garcia-Bertrand |first2=Ralph |title=Ancestral DNA, Human Origins, and Migrations |date=2018 |publisher=Academic Press |isbn=978-0-12-804128-4 |page=250 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=ZF1gDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=Ancestral+DNA+Human+Origins+and+Migrations+J2b-M102+South+Asia&amp;pg=PA250 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt; J2 clades attain peak frequencies in the North-West and South India&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot; /&gt; and is found at 19% within South Indian castes, 11% in North Indian castes and 12% in Pakistan.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; In [[South India]], the presence of J2 is higher among middle castes at 21%, followed by upper castes at 18.6% and lower castes at 14%.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; Among caste groups, the highest frequency of J2-M172 is observed among Tamil [[Vellalar]]s of South India, at 38.7%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sengupta S, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Mehdi SQ, Edmonds CA, Chow CE, Lin AA, Mitra M, Sil SK, Ramesh A, Usha Rani MV, Thakur CM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Majumder PP, Underhill PA | display-authors = 6 | title = Polarity and temporality of high-resolution y-chromosome distributions in India identify both indigenous and exogenous expansions and reveal minor genetic influence of Central Asian pastoralists | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 78 | issue = 2 | pages = 202–21 | date = February 2006 | pmid = 16400607 | pmc = 1380230 | doi = 10.1086/499411 }}&lt;/ref&gt; J2 is present in tribals too&lt;ref name=&quot;Singh2016&quot; /&gt; and has a frequency of 11% in Austro-Asiatic tribals. Among the Austro-Asiatic tribals, the predominant [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]] occurs in the Lodha (35%).&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; J2 is also present in the South Indian [[hill tribe]] [[Toda people|Toda]] at 38.46%,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Soria-Hernanz DF, Kavitha VJ, Arun VS, Syama A, Ashokan KS, Gandhirajan KT, Vijayakumar K, Narayanan M, Jayalakshmi M, Ziegle JS, Royyuru AK, Parida L, Wells RS, Renfrew C, Schurr TG, Smith CT, Platt DE, Pitchappan R | display-authors = 6 | title = Population differentiation of southern Indian male lineages correlates with agricultural expansions predating the caste system | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 7 | issue = 11 | pages = e50269 | year = 2012 | pmid = 23209694 | pmc = 3508930 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0050269 | bibcode = 2012PLoSO...750269A }}&lt;/ref&gt; in the [[Andh|Andh tribe]] of [[Telangana]] at 35.19%&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt; and in the [[Kol people|Kol tribe]] of [[Uttar Pradesh]] at a frequency of 33.34%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sharma2009&quot;/&gt; Haplogroup J-P209 was found to be more common in India's [[Shia Muslim]]s, of which 28.7% belong to haplogroup J, with 13.7% in J-M410, 10.6% in J-M267 and 4.4% in J2b {{harv|Eaaswarkhanth|2009}}.<br /> <br /> In [[Pakistan]], the highest frequencies of J2-M172 were observed among the [[Parsi]]s at 38.89%, the [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speaking [[Brahui people|Brahuis]] at 28.18% and the Makrani [[Baloch people|Balochs]] at 24%.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Qamar R, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Helgason A, Mazhar K, Mansoor A, Zerjal T, Tyler-Smith C, Mehdi SQ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 5 | pages = 1107–24 | date = May 2002 | pmid = 11898125 | pmc = 447589 | doi = 10.1086/339929 }}&lt;/ref&gt; It also occurs at 18.18% in [[Siddi|Makrani Siddis]] and at 3% in [[Siddis of Karnataka|Karnataka Siddis]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shah AM, Tamang R, Moorjani P, Rani DS, Govindaraj P, Kulkarni G, Bhattacharya T, Mustak MS, Bhaskar LV, Reddy AG, Gadhvi D, Gai PB, Chaubey G, Patterson N, Reich D, Tyler-Smith C, Singh L, Thangaraj K | display-authors = 6 | title = Indian Siddis: African descendants with Indian admixture | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 1 | pages = 154–61 | date = July 2011 | pmid = 21741027 | pmc = 3135801 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.05.030 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> J2-M172 is found at an overall frequency of 10.3% among the [[Sinhalese people]] of [[Sri Lanka]].&lt;ref name=kivisild2003/&gt; In [[Maldives]], 20.6% of Maldivian population were found to be haplogroup J2 positive.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pijpe |first1=Jeroen |last2=de Voogt |first2=Alex |last3=van Oven |first3=Mannis |last4=Henneman |first4=Peter |last5=van der Gaag |first5=Kristiaan J. |last6=Kayser |first6=Manfred |last7=de Knijff |first7=Peter |title=Indian ocean crossroads: Human genetic origin and population structure in the maldives |journal=American Journal of Physical Anthropology |date=21 March 2013 |volume=151 |issue=1 |pages=58–67 |doi=10.1002/ajpa.22256 |pmid=23526367 |pmc=3652038 |language=en |issn=0002-9483}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup L ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)}}<br /> According to Dr. [[Spencer Wells]], L-M20 originated in the [[Pamir Knot]] region in [[Tajikistan]] and migrated into [[Pakistan]] and [[India]] ca. 30,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last1=Wells|first1=Spencer|title=Deep ancestry : inside the Genographic project|date=2007|publisher=National Geographic|location=Washington, D.C.|isbn=978-1426201189}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;David G 2017&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Spencer Wells (2003), ''The Journey of Man. A Genetic Odyssey''. New Delhi: Penguin Books India, p. 167&lt;/ref&gt; However, most other studies have proposed a [[West Asia]]n origin for L-M20 and associated its expansion in the [[Indus valley]] (~7,000 YBP) to [[neolithic]] farmers.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao Z, Khan F, Borkar M, Herrera R, Agrawal S | title = Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: a study of 560 Y chromosomes | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 36 | issue = 1 | pages = 46–59 | date = 2009 | pmid = 19058044 | pmc = 2755252 | doi = 10.1080/03014460802558522 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Aunger R, Bentley G, Nasidze I, Sirajuddin SM, Stoneking M | s2cid = 5721248 | title = Independent origins of Indian caste and tribal paternal lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 14 | issue = 3 | pages = 231–5 | date = February 2004 | pmid = 14761656 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2004.01.024 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McElreavey K, Quintana-Murci L | s2cid = 109014 | title = A population genetics perspective of the Indus Valley through uniparentally-inherited markers | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 32 | issue = 2 | pages = 154–62 | date = 2005 | pmid = 16096211 | doi = 10.1080/03014460500076223 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thangaraj K, Naidu BP, Crivellaro F, Tamang R, Upadhyay S, Sharma VK, Reddy AG, Walimbe SR, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = The influence of natural barriers in shaping the genetic structure of Maharashtra populations | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 5 | issue = 12 | pages = e15283 | date = December 2010 | pmid = 21187967 | pmc = 3004917 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0015283 | bibcode = 2010PLoSO...515283T }}&lt;/ref&gt; There are three subbranches of haplogroup L: L1-M76 (L1a1), L2-M317 (L1b) and L3-M357 (L1a2), found at varying levels in South Asia.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> [[Haplogroup L-M20|Haplogroup L]] shows time of neolithic expansion.&lt;ref name=Thangaraj2010 /&gt; The clade is present in the Indian population at an overall frequency of ca. 7–15%.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Basu2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; [[Haplogroup L-M20|Haplogroup L]] has higher frequency among south Indian castes (ca. 17–19%) and reaches up to 68% in some castes in [[Karnataka]] but is somewhat rarer in north Indian castes (ca. 5–6%).&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt; The presence of haplogroup L is quite rare among tribal groups (ca. 5,6–7%),&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Cordaux2004 /&gt; however a moderate, 14.6% has been observed among the [[Chenchu]]s.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Among regional and social groups, moderate to high frequencies have been observed in Konkanastha Brahmins (18.6%), Punjabis (12.1%), Gujaratis (10.4%), [[Lambadis]] (17.1%), [[Jats]] (36.8%)&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;David G 2017&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mahal DG, Matsoukas IG | title = Y-STR Haplogroup Diversity in the Jat Population Reveals Several Different Ancient Origins | journal = Frontiers in Genetics | volume = 8 | pages = 121 | date = 20 September 2017 | pmid = 28979290 | pmc = 5611447 | doi = 10.3389/fgene.2017.00121 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> In Pakistan, L1-M76 and L3-M357 subclades of L-M20 reaches overall frequencies of 5.1% and 6.8%, respectively.&lt;ref name=Sengupta2006 /&gt;<br /> Haplogroup L3 (M357) is found frequently among [[Burusho people|Burusho]] (approx. 12%&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;) and [[Pashtun people|Pashtuns]] (approx. 7%&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;). Its highest frequency can be found in south western [[Balochistan (Pakistan)|Balochistan]] province along the [[Makran]] coast (28%) to [[Indus River]] delta. L3a (PK3) is found in approximately 23% of [[Nuristani people|Nuristani]] in northwest [[Pakistan]].&lt;ref name=Firasat2007 /&gt;<br /> <br /> The clade is present in moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population (14% approx).{{sfn|Qamar|2002}}{{sfn|Mcelreavey|2005}}<br /> <br /> ====Sri Lanka====<br /> In one study, 16% of the Sinhalese were found to be Haplogroup L-M20 positive.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003a/&gt; In another study 18% were found to belong to L1.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup R1a1 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup R1a1a}}<br /> In South Asia, R1a1 has been observed often with high frequency in a number of demographic groups,&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot;&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Sengupta et al.|2005}}{{full|date=May 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; as well as with highest [[Microsatellite|STR]] diversity which lead some to see it as the locus of origin.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Mirabal2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> While R1a originated ca. 22,000&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt; to 25,000{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} years ago, its subclade M417 (R1a1a1) diversified ca. 5,800 years ago.{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} The distribution of M417-subclades R1-Z282 (including R1-Z280){{sfn|Pamjav|2012}} in Central- and Eastern Europe and R1-Z93 in Asia{{sfn|Pamjav|2012}}{{sfn|Underhill|2014}} suggests that R1a1a diversified within the [[Eurasian Steppe]]s or the [[Middle East]] and [[Caucasus]] region.{{sfn|Pamjav|2012}} The place of origin of these subclades plays a role in the debate about the origins of [[Indo-European languages|Indo-Europeans]].<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> <br /> In [[India]], high percentage of this haplogroup is observed in [[Bengali Brahmins|West Bengal Brahmins]] (72%)&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot; /&gt; to the east, [[Lohana|Gujarat Lohanas]] (60%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; to the west, [[Khatri]]s (67%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; in north, [[Iyengar|Iyengar Brahmins]] (31%) in the south.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta et al. 2005&quot; /&gt; It has also been found in several [[South Indian]] [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]]-speaking [[Adivasi|tribals]] including the Kotas (41%) of Tamil Nadu{{sfn|ArunkumarG|2012}} [[Chenchu]] (26%) and Valmikis of [[Andhra Pradesh]]&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt; as well as the [[Yadav]] and [[Kallar(caste)|Kallar]] of [[Tamil Nadu]] suggesting that M17 is widespread in these Southern Indians tribes.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Kivisild|2003}}&lt;/ref&gt; Besides these, studies show high percentages in regionally diverse groups such as [[Meitei people|Manipuris]] (50%)&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt; to the extreme North East and in among [[Punjabis]] (47%)&lt;ref name=kivisild2003/&gt; to the extreme North West.<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> In Pakistan, it is found at 71% among the Mohanna of [[Sindh Province]] to the south and 46% among the [[Balti people|Baltis]] of [[Gilgit-Baltistan]] to the north.&lt;ref name=Underhill2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Sri Lanka ====<br /> 23% of the [[Sinhalese people]] out of a sample of 87 subjects were found to be R1a1a (R-SRY1532) positive according to a 2003 research.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003a&gt;{{Cite book | last1 = Kivisild | first1 = Toomas | last2 = Rootsi |first2=Siiri |last3=Metspalu |first3=Mait |last4=Metspalu |first4=Ene |last5=Parik |first5=Juri |last6=Kaldma |first6=Katrin |last7=Usanga |first7=Esien |last8=Mastana |first8=Sarabjit |last9=Papiha |first9=Surinder S. |last10=Villems |first10=Richard | name-list-style = vanc | year = 2003 | chapter= The Genetics of Language and Farming Spread in India |editor=Bellwood P, Renfrew C |title=Examining the farming/language dispersal hypothesis | publisher = McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, Cambridge, United Kingdom | pages = 215–222 |chapter-url=http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2003a.pdf }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maldives ====<br /> In [[Maldives]], 23.8% of the [[Maldivian people]] were found to be R1a1a (M17) positive.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Nepal ====<br /> People in [[Terai]] Region, [[Nepal]] show R1a1a at 69%.&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvcoltxt|Fornarino et al.|2009}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Haplogroup R2 ===<br /> {{Main|Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)}}<br /> <br /> In South Asia, the frequency of [[Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA)|R2]] and [[Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)|R2a]] lineage is around 10–15% in India and [[Sri Lanka]] and 7–8% in Pakistan. At least 90% of R-M124 individuals are located in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Manoukian&quot; /&gt; It is also reported in [[Caucasus]] and [[Central Asia]] at lower frequency. A genetic study by Mondal et al. 2017 concluded that [[Haplogroup R2]] originated in northern India and was already present before the Steppe migration.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Mondal|first1=Mayukh|last2=Bergström|first2=Anders|last3=Xue|first3=Yali|last4=Calafell|first4=Francesc|last5=Laayouni|first5=Hafid|last6=Casals|first6=Ferran|last7=Majumder|first7=Partha P.|last8=Tyler-Smith|first8=Chris|last9=Bertranpetit|first9=Jaume|s2cid=3725426|date=1 May 2017|title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese|journal=Human Genetics|language=en|volume=136|issue=5|pages=499–510|doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0|pmid=28444560|issn=1432-1203|hdl=10230/34399|hdl-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== India ====<br /> <br /> Among regional groups, it is found among [[West Bengal|West]] [[Bengalis]] (23%), [[New Delhi]] [[Hindu]]s (20%), [[Punjabis]] (5%) and [[Gujaratis]] (3%).&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt; Among tribal groups, Karmalis of [[West Bengal]] showed highest at 100%&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; followed by [[Lodha people|Lodhas]] (43%)&lt;ref name=Kumar2007 /&gt; to the east, while [[Bhil]] of [[Gujarat]] in the west were at 18%,&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt; [[Tharu people|Tharus]] of north showed it at 17%,&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt; [[Chenchu]] and [[Pallan]] of south were at 20% and 14% respectively.&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt; Among caste groups, high percentages are shown by [[Jaunpur district|Jaunpur]] [[Kshatriya]]s (87%), [[Kamma (caste)|kamma]] (73%), [[Bihar]] [[Yadav]] (50%), [[Khandayat]] (46%)and [[Kallar (caste)|Kallar]] (44%).&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> It is also significantly high in many [[Brahmin]] groups including [[Punjabi Brahmins]] (25%), [[Bengali Brahmins]] (22%), [[Konkanastha]] Brahmins (20%), [[Chaturvedi]]s (32%), [[Bhargava]]s (32%), [[Kashmiri Pandit]]s (14%) and [[Lingayat]] Brahmins (30%).&lt;ref name=Sharma2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> <br /> North Indian Muslims have a frequency of 19% ([[Sunni Islam|Sunni]]) and 13% ([[Shia islam|Shia]]),&lt;ref name=Zhao2009 /&gt; while [[Dawoodi Bohra|Dawoodi Bohra Muslim]] in the western state of Gujarat have a frequency of 16% and [[Mappila|Mappila Muslims]] of South India have a frequency of 5%.&lt;ref name=Eaaswarkhanth2009 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Pakistan ====<br /> The R2 haplogroup is found in 14% of the [[Burusho people]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Firasat2007&quot; /&gt; Among the [[Hunza people]] it is found at 18% while the [[Parsi]]s show it at 20%. It is also found in the northeastern part of [[Afghanistan]].{{citation needed|date=July 2016}}<br /> <br /> ==== Sri Lanka ====<br /> 38% of the [[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]] of Sri Lanka were found to be R2 positive according to a 2003 research.&lt;ref name=kivisild2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maldives ====<br /> 12% of the [[Maldivian people]] of Maldives are found to have R2.&lt;ref name=&quot;Pijpe2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Nepal ====<br /> In Nepal, R2 percentages range from 2% to 26% within different groups under various studies. [[Newar]]s show a significantly high frequency of 26% while people of [[Kathmandu]] show it at 10%.<br /> <br /> == Reconstructing South Asian population history ==<br /> The {{harvtxt|Indian Genome Variation Consortium|2008}}, divides the population of South Asia into four ethnolinguistic (not genetic) groups: [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]], [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]], [[Tibeto-Burman languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and [[Austroasiatic languages|Austro-Asiatic]].&lt;ref&gt;<br /> {{Cite web |url=http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf |title=The Place of the Indian mtDNA Variants in the Global Network of Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World |access-date=28 September 2011 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20120308154249/http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf |archive-date=8 March 2012 |url-status=live }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;<br /> {{cite web|url=http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=2-16|title=Ethnologue report for Indo-European|publisher=Ethnologue.com|access-date=24 November 2015|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20121015090404/http://www.ethnologue.com/show_family.asp?subid=2-16|archive-date=15 October 2012|url-status=live}}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Baldi|first=Philip| name-list-style = vanc |author-link=Philip Baldi|title=Linguistic Change and Reconstruction Methodology|publisher=Walter de Gruyter|year=1990|isbn=978-3-11-011908-4|page=342}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfnp|Burling|2003|pp=174–178}}&lt;ref&gt;<br /> Bradley (2012) notes, ''MK in the wider sense including the Munda languages of eastern South Asia is also known as Austroasiatic.''[https://www.academia.edu/1542763/Languages_and_Language_Families_in_China Languages and Language Families in China] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170430061616/http://www.academia.edu/1542763/Languages_and_Language_Families_in_China |date=30 April 2017 }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; The molecular anthropology studies use three different type of markers: Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation which is maternally inherited and highly polymorphic, Y Chromosome variation which involves uniparental transmission along the male lines, and Autosomal DNA variation.&lt;ref name=Tripathy2008 /&gt;{{rp|04}}<br /> <br /> === mtDNA variation ===<br /> Most of the studies based on mtDNA variation have reported genetic unity of South Asian populations across language, caste and tribal groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar&quot;&gt;<br /> {{cite book|last=Singh|first=Ashok Kumar| name-list-style = vanc |title=Science &amp; Technology For Upsc|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=CzV1MgFH6oMC&amp;pg=PA595|year=2007|publisher=Tata McGraw-Hill Education|isbn=978-0-07-065548-5|page=595|access-date=24 May 2016|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140103134039/http://books.google.com/books?id=CzV1MgFH6oMC&amp;pg=PA595|archive-date=3 January 2014|url-status=live}}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; It is likely that haplogroup M was brought to Asia from East Africa along the southern route by earliest migration wave 78,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild1999b&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to [[Toomas Kivisild|Kivisild]] et al. (1999), &quot;Minor overlaps with lineages described in other Eurasian populations clearly demonstrate that recent immigrations have had very little impact on the innate structure of the maternal [[gene pool]] of South Asians. Despite the variations found within India, these populations stem from a limited number of founder lineages. These lineages were most likely introduced to South Asia during the Middle Palaeolithic, before the peopling of Europe 48,000 years ago and perhaps the Old World in general.&quot;&lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b /&gt; Basu et al. (2003) also emphasises underlying unity of female lineages in India.&lt;ref name=Basu2003 /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Y Chromosome variation ===<br /> Conclusions based on Y Chromosome variation have been more varied than those based on mtDNA variation. While {{harvtxt|Kivisild et al.|2003}} proposes an ancient and shared genetic heritage of male lineages in South Asia, Bamshad et al. (2001) suggests an affinity between South Asian male lineages and west Eurasians proportionate to upper caste rank and places upper caste populations of southern Indian states closer to [[East Europeans]].&lt;ref name=Bamshad2001 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Basu et al. (2003) concludes that Austro–Asiatic tribal populations entered India first from the Northwest corridor and much later some of them through Northeastern corridor.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2003&quot; /&gt; Whereas, Kumar et al. (2007) analysed 25 South Asian Austro-Asiatic tribes and found strong paternal genetic link among the sub-linguistic groups of the South Asian Austro-Asiatic populations.&lt;ref name=Kumar2007 /&gt; Mukherjee et al. (2001) places Pakistanis and North Indians between west Asian and Central Asian populations,&lt;ref name=Mukherjee2001 /&gt; whereas Cordaux et al. (2004) argues that the Indian caste populations are closer to Central Asian populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Cordaux2004&quot; /&gt; Sahoo et al. (2006) and Sengupta et al. (2006) suggest that Indian caste populations have not been subject to any recent admixtures.&lt;ref name=&quot;Sengupta2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt; Sanghamitra Sahoo concludes his study with:&lt;ref name=Sahoo2006 /&gt;<br /> {{Quote|It is not necessary, based on the current evidence, to look beyond South Asia for the origins of the paternal heritage of the majority of Indians at the time of the onset of settled agriculture. The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through the northwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny. Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a, and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the South Asia are rejected, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H. Of the others, only J2 indicates an unambiguous recent external contribution, from West Asia rather than Central Asia. The current distributions of haplogroup frequencies are, with the exception of the lineages, predominantly driven by geographical, rather than cultural determinants. Ironically, it is in the northeast of India, among the TB groups that there is clear-cut evidence for large-scale demic diffusion traceable by genes, culture, and language, but apparently not by agriculture.}}<br /> <br /> Closest neighbor analysis done by Mondal et al. 2017 concluded that Indian Y-lineages are close to southern [[Europe]]an populations and the time of divergence between the two predated Steppe migration.&quot;:&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Mondal |first1=Mayukh |last2=Bergström |first2=Anders |last3=Xue |first3=Yali |last4=Calafell |first4=Francesc |last5=Laayouni |first5=Hafid |last6=Casals |first6=Ferran |last7=Majumder |first7=Partha P. |last8=Tyler-Smith |first8=Chris |last9=Bertranpetit |first9=Jaume |s2cid=3725426 |title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese |journal=Human Genetics |date=25 April 2017 |volume=136 |issue=5 |pages=499–510 |doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0 |pmid=28444560 |hdl=10230/34399 |hdl-access=free }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{Quote|text=These results suggest that the European-related ancestry in Indian populations might be much older and more complex than anticipated, and might originate from the first wave of agriculturists or even earlier|sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> === Autosomal DNA variation ===<br /> <br /> ====AASI-ANI-ASI====<br /> Results of studies based upon autosomal DNA variation have also been varied. In a major study (2009) using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers, Reich hypothesized that the modern South Asian population was the result of admixture between two genetically divergent ancestral populations dating from the post-Holocene era. These two &quot;reconstructed&quot; ancient populations he termed &quot;Ancestral South Indians&quot; (ASI) and &quot;Ancestral North Indians&quot; (ANI). According to Reich: &quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers, suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot; While the ANI is genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians and Europeans, the ASI is not closely related to groups outside of the subcontinent. As no &quot;ASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] [[Onge people|Onge]] are used as an (imperfect) proxy of ASI (according to Reich et al., the Andamanese, though distinct from them, are the closest living population to ASI). According to Reich et al., both ANI and ASI ancestry are found all over the subcontinent (in both northern and southern India) in varying proportions, and that &quot;ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich2009&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the ASI, though not closely related to any living group, are &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. however suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI, causing the modeled relationship. The study concluded that &quot;almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West-Eurasians in PCA (referred to as &quot;Indian cline&quot;)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2013 study by Chaubey using the single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP), shows that the genome of Andamanese people (Onge) is closer to those of other Oceanic Negrito groups than to that of South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|last1=Chaubey|first1=Gyaneshwer|last2=Endicott|first2=Phillip|date=June 2013|title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia|url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7|journal=Human Biology|volume=85|issue=1–3|pages=153–172|doi=10.3378/027.085.0307|pmid=24297224|s2cid=7774927}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. 2016, further analysis revealed that the genomic structure of mainland Indian populations is best explained by contributions from four ancestral components. In addition to the ANI and ASI, Basu et. al (2016) identified two East Asian ancestral components in mainland India that are major for the Austro-Asiatic-speaking tribals and the Tibeto-Burman speakers, which they denoted as AAA (for &quot;Ancestral Austro-Asiatic&quot;) and ATB (for &quot;Ancestral Tibeto-Burman&quot;) respectively. The study also infers that the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which &quot;was found to be coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations&quot; but more distant from South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> &lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The cline of admixture between the ANI and ASI lineages is dated to the period of c. 4.2–1.9 kya by Moorjani et al. (2013), corresponding to the Indian Bronze Age, and associated by the authors with the process of deurbanisation of the [[Indus Valley Civilization]] and the population shift to the Gangetic system in the incipient Indian Iron Age.&lt;ref name=&quot;Moorjani2013&quot; /&gt; Basu et al. (2003) suggests that &quot;Dravidian speakers were possibly widespread throughout India before the arrival of the Indo-European-speaking nomads&quot; and that &quot;formation of populations by fission that resulted in founder and drift effects have left their imprints on the genetic structures of contemporary populations&quot;.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu2003&quot; /&gt; The geneticist PP Majumder (2010) has recently argued that the findings of Reich et al. (2009) are in remarkable concordance with previous research using mtDNA and Y-DNA:&lt;ref name=&quot;Majumder2010&quot; /&gt;<br /> {{Quote|Central Asian populations are supposed to have been major contributors to the Indian gene pool, particularly to the northern Indian gene pool, and the migrants had supposedly moved into India through what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan. Using [[mitochondrial DNA]] variation data collated from various studies, we have shown that populations of Central Asia and Pakistan show the lowest coefficient of genetic differentiation with the north Indian populations, a higher differentiation with the south Indian populations, and the highest with the northeast Indian populations. Northern Indian populations are genetically closer to Central Asians than populations of other geographical regions of India... . Consistent with the above findings, a recent study using over 500,000 biallelic autosomal markers has found a north to south gradient of genetic proximity of Indian populations to western Eurasians. This feature is likely related to the proportions of ancestry derived from the western Eurasian gene pool, which, as this study has shown, is greater in populations inhabiting northern India than those inhabiting southern India.}}<br /> <br /> Chaubey et al. 2015 detected a distinctive East Asian ancestral component, mainly restricted to specific populations in the foothills of Himalaya and northeastern part of India. Highest frequency of the component is observed among the Tibeto-Burmese speaking groups of northeast India and was also detected in Andamanese populations at 32%, with substantial presence also among Austroasiatic speakers. It is found to be largely absent in Indo-European and Dravidian speakers, except in some specific ethnic groups living in the Himalayan foothills and central-south India.&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |title=East Asian ancestry in India |date=January 2015 |journal=Indian Journal of Physical Anthropology and Human Genetics |volume=34 |issue=2 |pages=193–199 |url=https://serialsjournals.com/abstract/78963_2.pdf |quote=Here the analysis of genome wide data on Indian and East/Southeast Asian demonstrated their restricted distinctive ancestry in India mainly running along the foothills of Himalaya and northeastern part.}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;/ref&gt; The researchers however suggested that the East Asian ancestry (represented by the Han) measured in the studied Andamanese groups may actually reflect the capture of the affinity of the Andamanese with Melanesians and Malaysian Negritos (rather than true East Asian admixture),&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt; as a previous study by Chaubey et al. suggested &quot;a deep common ancestry&quot; between Andamanese, Melanesians and other Negrito groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;ChaubeyEast&quot;/&gt; and an affinity between Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians (as well as the Andamanese) with East Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Chaubey |first1=Gyaneshwer |last2=Endicott |first2=Phillip |title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia |journal=Human Biology |date=June 2013 |volume=85 |issue=1–3 |pages=153–172 |doi=10.3378/027.085.0307 |pmid=24297224 |s2cid=7774927 |url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes &quot;The demographic impact of steppe related populations on South Asia was substantial, as the [[Mala (caste)|Mala]], a south Indian [[Dalit]] population with minimal Ancestral North Indian (ANI) ancestry still have ~ 18% [[steppe-related ancestry|steppe-related Yamnaya ancestry]], while the [[Kalash people|Kalash]] of Pakistan are inferred to have ~ 50% steppe-related Yamnaya ancestry, one of the highest percentage next to eastern Europeans at 51%.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;Citation error. See inline comment how to fix. {{verify source |date=September 2019 |reason=This ref was deleted Special:Diff/909570260 by a bug in VisualEditor and later identified by a bot. The original cite can be found at Special:Permalink/909439483 (or in a rev close to it) in either cite #44 or cite #38 - find and verify the cite and replace this template with it (1). [[User:GreenC bot/Job 18]]}}&lt;/ref&gt; Lazaridis et al.'s 2016 study estimated (6.5–50.2%) steppe related admixture in South Asians. Lazaridis et al. further notes that &quot;A useful direction of future research is a more comprehensive sampling of ancient DNA from steppe populations, as well as populations of central Asia (east of Iran and south of the steppe), which may reveal more proximate sources of the ANI than the ones considered here, and of South Asia to determine the trajectory of population change in the area directly.<br /> <br /> Pathak et al. 2018 concluded that the [[Indo-European language|Indo-European]] speakers of [[Gangetic Plains]] and the [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speakers have significant [[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya Early-Middle Bronze Age]] (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry but no Middle-Late Bronze Age Steppe (Steppe_MLBA) ancestry. On the other hand, the &quot;North-Western Indian and Pakistani&quot; populations (PNWI) showed significant Steppe_MLBA ancestry along with Yamnaya (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry. The study also noted that ancient South Asian samples had significantly higher Steppe_MLBA than Steppe_EMBA (or Yamnaya). The study also suggested that the [[Ror]]s could be used as a proxy for the ANI.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pathak |first1=Ajai K. |last2=Kadian |first2=Anurag |last3=Kushniarevich |first3=Alena |last4=Montinaro |first4=Francesco |last5=Mondal |first5=Mayukh |last6=Ongaro |first6=Linda |last7=Singh |first7=Manvendra |last8=Kumar |first8=Pramod |last9=Rai |first9=Niraj |last10=Parik |first10=Jüri |last11=Metspalu |first11=Ene |last12=Rootsi |first12=Siiri |last13=Pagani |first13=Luca |last14=Kivisild |first14=Toomas |last15=Metspalu |first15=Mait |last16=Chaubey |first16=Gyaneshwer |last17=Villems |first17=Richard |title=The Genetic Ancestry of Modern Indus Valley Populations from Northwest India |journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics |date=December 2018 |volume=103 |issue=6 |pages=918–929 |doi=10.1016/j.ajhg.2018.10.022 |pmid=30526867 |pmc=6288199 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[David Reich (geneticist)|David Reich]] in his 2018 book ''[[Who We Are and How We Got Here]]'' states that the 2016 analyses found the ASI to have significant amounts of an ancestry component deriving from Iranian farmers (about 25% of their ancestry), with the remaining 75% of their ancestry deriving from native South Asian hunter-gatherers. He adds that ASI were unlikely the local hunter-gatherers of South Asia as previously established, but a population responsible for spreading agriculture throughout South Asia. In the case of the ANI, the Iranian farmer ancestry is 50%, with the rest being from steppe groups related to the Yamnaya.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last1=Reich |first1=David |title=Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the new science of the human past |date=2018 |publisher=OUP Oxford |isbn=978-0-19-257040-6 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=8NFeDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=Who+We+Are+and+How+We+Got+Here+asi&amp;pg=PT216 |access-date=2 March 2020 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}, similarly, conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI (ancient ancestral south Indian, i.e. hunter-gatherers sharing a distant root with the Andamanese, Australian Aboriginals, and East Asians); and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; (with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population).{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} The authors propose that the AASI indigenous hunter-gatherers represent a divergent branch that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge (Andamanese) and Australian Aboriginal ancestors separated from each other. It inferred, &quot;essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. (2019) however shows that modern South Asian populations are generally closest to West-Eurasians. They concluded that modern South Asians are basically a mixture of a native South Asian genetic component and a later-arriving West-Eurasian component (derived from both West Asia and the western Steppes). The authors also argue that the native South Asian genetic component is distinct from the Andamanese or East Asians, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect proxy. They propose that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (a group of predominantly ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians, as the Paniya are directly derived from the natives of South Asia, while the Onge may have received geneflow from other groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;auto&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from peoples related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers, with the Iranian-related ancestry being on average predominant. The samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI. The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;[[Steppe ancestry]]&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10|date = September 2019 | pmid = 31495572| pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Genetic distance between caste groups and tribes ====<br /> Studies by Watkins et al. (2005) and Kivisild et al. (2003) based on autosomal markers conclude that Indian caste and tribal populations have a common ancestry.&lt;ref name=&quot;kivisild2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=Watkins2005 /&gt; Reddy et al. (2005) found fairly uniform allele frequency distributions across caste groups of southern [[Andhra Pradesh]], but significantly larger genetic distance between caste groups and tribes indicating [[genetic isolation]] of the tribes and castes.&lt;ref name=Reddy2005 /&gt;<br /> <br /> Viswanathan et al. (2004) in a study on genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India concludes, &quot;''Genetic differentiation was high and genetic distances were not significantly correlated with geographic distances. Genetic drift therefore probably played a significant role in shaping the patterns of genetic variation observed in southern Indian tribal populations.'' Otherwise, analyses of population relationships showed that all Indian and South Asian populations are still similar to one another, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and do not show any particular affinities to Africans. We conclude that the phenotypic similarities of some Indian groups to Africans ''do not'' reflect a close relationship between these groups, but are better explained by ''convergence''.&quot;&lt;ref name=Vishwanathan2004 /&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2011 study published in the [[American Journal of Human Genetics]]&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt; indicates that Indian ancestral components are the result of a more complex demographic history than was previously thought. According to the researchers, South Asia harbours two major ancestral components, one of which is spread at comparable frequency and genetic diversity in populations of Central Asia, West Asia and Europe; the other component is more restricted to South Asia. However, if one were to rule out the possibility of a large-scale Indo-Aryan migration, these findings suggest that the genetic affinities of both Indian ancestral components are the result of multiple gene flows over the course of thousands of years.&lt;ref name=Metspalu2011 /&gt;&lt;!--{{Quote|Modeling of the observed haplotype diversities suggests that both Indian ancestry components are older than the purported Indo-Aryan invasion 3,500 YBP. Consistent with the results of pairwise genetic distances among world regions, Indians share more ancestry signals with West than with East Eurasians.}}--&gt;<br /> <br /> Narashimhan et al 2019 found Austroasiatic-speaking Munda tribals could not be modeled simply as mixture of ASI, AASI, ANI ancestry unlike other South Asians but required additional ancestry component from Southeast Asia. They were modeled as mixture of 48% AASI, 52% Austroasiatic-clad related to [[Nicobarese]] and 37% ASI ancestry, thus the ancestry profile of the Mundas provides an independent line of ancestry from Southeast Asia around the 3rd millennium BCE.{{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} Lipson et al. 2018 found similar admixture results in regard to Munda tribals stating ''&quot;we obtained a good fit with three ancestry components: one western Eurasian, one deep eastern Eurasian (interpreted as an indigenous South Asian lineage), and one from the Austroasiatic clade&quot;''.&lt;ref&gt;lipson et al 2018&lt;/ref&gt; Lipson et al. 2018 further found the Austroasiatic source clad (proportion 35%) in Munda tribals was inferred to be closest to [[Mlabri]]. &lt;ref name=&quot;Lipson et al 2018&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Lipson |first1=Mark |last2=Cheronet |first2=Olivia |last3=Mallick |first3=Swapan |last4=Rohland |first4=Nadin |last5=Oxenham |first5=Marc |last6=Pietrusewsky |first6=Michael |last7=Oliver Pryce |first7=Thomas |last8=Willis |first8=Anna |last9=Matsumura |first9=Hirofumi |last10=Buckley |first10=Hallie |last11=Domett |first11=Kate |last12=Hai Nguyen |first12=Giang |last13=Hiep Trinh |first13=Hoang |last14=Kyaw |first14=Aung Aung |last15=Win |first15=Tin Tin |last16=Pradier |first16=Baptiste |last17=Broomandkhoshbacht |first17=Nasreen |last18=Candilio |first18=Francesca |last19=Changmai |first19=Piya |last20=Fernandes |first20=Daniel |last21=Ferry |first21=Matthew |last22=Gamarra |first22=Beatriz |last23=Harney |first23=Eadaoin |last24=Kampuansai |first24=Jatupol |last25=Kutanan |first25=Megan |last26=Novak |first26=Mario |last27=Oppenheimer |first27=Jonas |last28=Sirak |first28=Kendra |last29=Stewardson |first29=Kristin |last30=Zhang |first30=Zhao |last31=Flegontov |first31=Pavel |last32=Pinhasi |first32=Ron |last33=Reich |first33=David |title=Ancient genomes document multiple waves of migration in Southeast Asian prehistory |journal=Science |date=06 July 2018 |volume=361 |issue=6397 |pages=92-95 |doi=DOI: 10.1126/science.aat3188 |url=https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/92 |access-date=06 July 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt; Singh et al 2020 similarly found Austroasiatic speakers in South Asia fall out of the South Asian cline due to their Southeast Asian genetic affinity. <br /> &lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pratap Singh |first1=Prajjval |last2=Vishwakarma |first2=Shani |last3=Nahar Sultana |first3=Gazi Nurun |last4=Pilvar |first4=Arno |last5=Karmin |first5=Monika |last6=Rootsi |first6=Siiri |last7=Villems |first7=Richard |last8=Metspalu |first8=Mait |last9=M. Behar |first9=Doron |last10=Kivisild |first10=Toomas |last11=Van Driem |first11=George |last12=Chaubey |first12=Gyaneshwer |title=Dissecting the paternal founders of Mundari (Austroasiatic) speakers associated with the language dispersal in South Asia |journal=European Journal of Human Genetics |date=21 October 2020 |volume=172 |pages=1-5 |doi=https://doi.org/10.1038/s41431-020-00745-1 |url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-00745-1#citeas |access-date=21 October 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{Portal|Evolutionary biology}}<br /> *[[Archaeogenetics]]<br /> *[[Ethnic groups of South Asia]]<br /> *[[List of ethnolinguistic regions of South Asia]]<br /> *[[Peopling of India]]<br /> *[[Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of South Asia]]<br /> *[[Genetic studies on Gujarati people]]<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{Reflist|colwidth=30em|refs=<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Baig2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Baig MM, Khan AA, Kulkarni KM | title = Mitochondrial DNA diversity in tribal and caste groups of Maharashtra (India) and its implication on their genetic origins | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 5 | pages = 453–60 | date = September 2004 | pmid = 15469422 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2004.00108.x | s2cid = 23032872 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Eaaswarkhanth2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Eaaswarkhanth M, Haque I, Ravesh Z, Romero IG, Meganathan PR, Dubey B, Khan FA, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Tyler-Smith C, Singh L, Thangaraj K | display-authors = 6 | title = Traces of sub-Saharan and Middle Eastern lineages in Indian Muslim populations | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 3 | pages = 354–63 | date = March 2010 | pmid = 19809480 | pmc = 2859343 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.168 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Firasat2007&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Firasat S, Khaliq S, Mohyuddin A, Papaioannou M, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Ayub Q | title = Y-chromosomal evidence for a limited Greek contribution to the Pathan population of Pakistan | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 15 | issue = 1 | pages = 121–6 | date = January 2007 | pmid = 17047675 | pmc = 2588664 | doi = 10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201726 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;isogg.org&quot;&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html |title=Y-DNA Haplogroup H and its Subclades – 2015 |access-date=11 October 2015 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151101022048/http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpH.html |archive-date=1 November 2015 |url-status=live }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild2000a&gt;{{citation |first1=Toomas |last1=Kivisild |author-link1=Toomas Kivisild |first2=Surinder S. |last2=Papiha |first3=Siiri |last3=Rootsi |first4=Jüri |last4=Parik |first5=Katrin |last5=Kaldma |first6=Maere |last6=Reidla |first7=Sirle |last7=Laos |first8=Mait |last8=Metspalu |first9=Gerli |last9=Pielberg |first10=Maa rja |last10=Adojaan |first11=Ene |last11=Metspalu |first12=Sarabjit S. |last12=Mastana |first13=Yiming |last13=Wang |first14=Mukaddes |last14=Golge |first15=Halil |last15=Demirtas |first16=Eckart |last16=Schnakenberg |first17=Gian Franco |last17=de Stefano |first18=Tarekegn |last18=Geberhiwot |first19=Mireille |last19=Claustres |first20=Richard |last20=Villems | name-list-style = vanc | display-authors = 6 |title=An Indian Ancestry: a Key for Understanding Human Diversity in Europe and Beyond |year=2000 |publisher=McDonald Institute Monographs | url= http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf |access-date=11 November 2005 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20060219054924/http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf |archive-date=19 February 2006 |url-status=live}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kumar2007&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kumar V, Reddy AN, Babu JP, Rao TN, Langstieh BT, Thangaraj K, Reddy AG, Singh L, Reddy BM | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 7 | pages = 47 | date = March 2007 | pmid = 17389048 | pmc = 1851701 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Manoukian&quot;&gt;Manoukian, Jean-Grégoire (2006), &quot;[http://www.ethnoancestry.com/index_files/index_data/Haplogroup_R2_Manoukian.pdf A Synthesis of Haplogroup R2 – 2006] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151001014558/http://www.ethnoancestry.com/index_files/index_data/Haplogroup_R2_Manoukian.pdf |date=1 October 2015 }}.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=mcDonald&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf |title=Y Haplogroups of the World, 2005, McDonald |access-date=24 October 2006 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20040728005528/http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf |archive-date=28 July 2004 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Metspalu2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Metspalu2011&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Mirabal2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mirabal S, Regueiro M, Cadenas AM, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA, Verbenko DA, Limborska SA, Herrera RJ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome distribution within the geo-linguistic landscape of northwestern Russia | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 17 | issue = 10 | pages = 1260–73 | date = October 2009 | pmid = 19259129 | pmc = 2986641 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.6 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Moorjani2013&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | author7-link = Bonnie Berger }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Reddy2005&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Reddy BM, Naidu VM, Madhavi VK, Thangaraj LK, Kumar V, Langstieh BT, Venkatramana P, Reddy AG, Singh L | s2cid = 18446485 | display-authors = 6 | title = Microsatellite diversity in Andhra Pradesh, India: genetic stratification versus social stratification | journal = Human Biology | volume = 77 | issue = 6 | pages = 803–23 | date = December 2005 | pmid = 16715839 | doi = 10.1353/hub.2006.0018 | url = http://dspace.nehu.ac.in/handle/1/1547 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Sahoo2006&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sahoo S, Singh A, Himabindu G, Banerjee J, Sitalaximi T, Gaikwad S, Trivedi R, Endicott P, Kivisild T, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kashyap VK | display-authors = 6 | title = A prehistory of Indian Y chromosomes: evaluating demic diffusion scenarios | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 103 | issue = 4 | pages = 843–8 | date = January 2006 | pmid = 16415161 | pmc = 1347984 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.0507714103 | bibcode = 2006PNAS..103..843S }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Sharma2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Sharma S, Rai E, Sharma P, Jena M, Singh S, Darvishi K, Bhat AK, Bhanwer AJ, Tiwari PK, Bamezai RN | s2cid = 22162114 | display-authors = 6 | title = The Indian origin of paternal haplogroup R1a1* substantiates the autochthonous origin of Brahmins and the caste system | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 54 | issue = 1 | pages = 47–55 | date = January 2009 | pmid = 19158816 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2008.2 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Thangaraj2006&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Puente XS, Velasco G, Gutiérrez-Fernández A, Bertranpetit J, King MC, López-Otín C | title = Comparative analysis of cancer genes in the human and chimpanzee genomes | journal = BMC Genomics | volume = 7 | pages = 15 | date = January 2006 | pmid = 16438707 | pmc = 1382208 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2164-7-15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Thangaraj2010&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thangaraj K, Naidu BP, Crivellaro F, Tamang R, Upadhyay S, Sharma VK, Reddy AG, Walimbe SR, Chaubey G, Kivisild T, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = The influence of natural barriers in shaping the genetic structure of Maharashtra populations | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 5 | issue = 12 | pages = e15283 | date = December 2010 | pmid = 21187967 | pmc = 3004917 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0015283 | editor1-last = Cordaux | bibcode = 2010PLoSO...515283T | editor1-first = Richard }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Thanseem2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Thanseem I, Thangaraj K, Chaubey G, Singh VK, Bhaskar LV, Reddy BM, Reddy AG, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic affinities among the lower castes and tribal groups of India: inference from Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 7 | pages = 42 | date = August 2006 | pmid = 16893451 | pmc = 1569435 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-7-42}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Tripathy2008&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Tripathy |first1=Vikal |last2=Nirmala |first2=A. |last3=Reddy |first3=B. Mohan |s2cid=12763485 |title=Trends in Molecular Anthropological Studies in India |journal=International Journal of Human Genetics |date=4 September 2017 |volume=8 |issue=1–2 |pages=1–20 |doi=10.1080/09723757.2008.11886015 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Vishwanathan2004&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | s2cid = 24230856 | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Watkins2005&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Watkins WS, Prasad BV, Naidu JM, Rao BB, Bhanu BA, Ramachandran B, Das PK, Gai PB, Reddy PC, Reddy PG, Sethuraman M, Bamshad MJ, Jorde LB | display-authors = 6 | title = Diversity and divergence among the tribal populations of India | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 69 | issue = Pt 6 | pages = 680–92 | date = November 2005 | pmid = 16266407 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2005.00200.x | s2cid = 31907598 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Zhao2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao Z, Khan F, Borkar M, Herrera R, Agrawal S | title = Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: a study of 560 Y chromosomes | journal = Annals of Human Biology | volume = 36 | issue = 1 | pages = 46–59 | year = 2009 | pmid = 19058044 | pmc = 2755252 | doi = 10.1080/03014460802558522 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Bamshad2001&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Bamshad M, Kivisild T, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Ricker CE, Rao BB, Naidu JM, Prasad BV, Reddy PG, Rasanayagam A, Papiha SS, Villems R, Redd AJ, Hammer MF, Nguyen SV, Carroll ML, Batzer MA, Jorde LB | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence on the origins of Indian caste populations | journal = Genome Research | volume = 11 | issue = 6 | pages = 994–1004 | date = June 2001 | pmid = 11381027 | pmc = 311057 | doi = 10.1101/gr.GR-1733RR }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Basu2003&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Mukherjee N, Roy S, Sengupta S, Banerjee S, Chakraborty M, Dey B, Roy M, Roy B, Bhattacharyya NP, Roychoudhury S, Majumder PP | display-authors = 6 | title = Ethnic India: a genomic view, with special reference to peopling and structure | journal = Genome Research | volume = 13 | issue = 10 | pages = 2277–90 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 14525929 | pmc = 403703 | doi = 10.1101/gr.1413403 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild1999a&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Kivisild |first1=T. |last2=Bamshad |first2=M.J. |last3=Kaldma |first3=K. |last4=Metspalu |first4=M. |last5=Metspalu |first5=E. |last6=Reidla |first6=M. |last7=Laos |first7=S. |last8=Parik |first8=J. |last9=Watkins |first9=W.S. |last10=Dixon |first10=M.E. |last11=Papiha |first11=S.S. |last12=Mastana |first12=S.S. |last13=Mir |first13=M.R. |last14=Ferak |first14=V. |last15=Villems |first15=R. |s2cid=2821966 |title=Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages |journal=Current Biology |date=November 1999 |volume=9 |issue=22 |pages=1331–1334 |doi=10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 |pmid=10574762 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Kivisild1999b&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha S, Villems R |author-link1=Toomas Kivisild |doi=10.1007/978-1-4615-4263-6_11 | chapter =The Place of the Indian Mitochondrial DNA Variants in the Global Network of Maternal Lineages and the Peopling of the Old World |title =Genomic Diversity |year=1999 |isbn=978-1-4613-6914-1 |pages=135–152 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Underhill2009&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Myres NM, Rootsi S, Metspalu M, Zhivotovsky LA, King RJ, Lin AA, Chow CE, Semino O, Battaglia V, Kutuev I, Järve M, Chaubey G, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Mehdi SQ, Sengupta S, Rogaev EI, Khusnutdinova EK, Pshenichnov A, Balanovsky O, Balanovska E, Jeran N, Augustin DH, Baldovic M, Herrera RJ, Thangaraj K, Singh V, Singh L, Majumder P, Rudan P, Primorac D, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 4 | pages = 479–84 | date = April 2010 | pmid = 19888303 | pmc = 2987245 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2009.194 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Majumder2010&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Majumder PP | s2cid = 1490419 | title = The human genetic history of South Asia | journal = Current Biology | volume = 20 | issue = 4 | pages = R184-7 | date = February 2010 | pmid = 20178765 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2009.11.053 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=Mukherjee2001&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | s2cid = 13267463 | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/BF02717908 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;ref name=&quot;Reich2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> }}<br /> <br /> === Further reading ===<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Allikas A, Ord D, Kurg R, Kivi S, Ustav M | title = Roles of the hinge region and the DNA binding domain of the bovine papillomavirus type 1 E2 protein in initiation of DNA replication | journal = Virus Research | volume = 75 | issue = 2 | pages = 95–106 | date = June 2001 | pmid = 11325464 | doi = 10.1016/S0168-1702(01)00219-2 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Behar DM, Garrigan D, Kaplan ME, Mobasher Z, Rosengarten D, Karafet TM, Quintana-Murci L, Ostrer H, Skorecki K, Hammer MF | s2cid = 10310338 | display-authors = 6 | title = Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome variation in Ashkenazi Jewish and host non-Jewish European populations | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 4 | pages = 354–65 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 14740294 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1073-7 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Bhattacharyya NP, Basu P, Das M, Pramanik S, Banerjee R, Roy B, Roychoudhury S, Majumder PP | display-authors = 6 | title = Negligible male gene flow across ethnic boundaries in India, revealed by analysis of Y-chromosomal DNA polymorphisms | journal = Genome Research | volume = 9 | issue = 8 | pages = 711–9 | date = August 1999 | pmid = 10447506 | doi = 10.1101/gr.9.8.711 | url = http://genome.cshlp.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&amp;pmid=10447506 | doi-broken-date = 3 February 2021 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Cann RL | s2cid = 19367408 | title = Genetic clues to dispersal in human populations: retracing the past from the present | journal = Science | volume = 291 | issue = 5509 | pages = 1742–8 | date = March 2001 | pmid = 11249820 | doi = 10.1126/science.1058948 | bibcode = 2001Sci...291.1742C }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Cinnioğlu C, King R, Kivisild T, Kalfoğlu E, Atasoy S, Cavalleri GL, Lillie AS, Roseman CC, Lin AA, Prince K, Oefner PJ, Shen P, Semino O, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA | s2cid = 10763736 | display-authors = 6 | title = Excavating Y-chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 2 | pages = 127–48 | date = January 2004 | pmid = 14586639 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1031-4 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Das B, Chauhan PS, Seshadri M | s2cid = 12835244 | title = Minimal sharing of Y-chromosome STR haplotypes among five endogamous population groups from western and southwestern India | journal = Human Biology | volume = 76 | issue = 5 | pages = 743–63 | date = October 2004 | pmid = 15757245 | doi = 10.1353/hub.2005.0003 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last1 = Hemphill | first1 = Brian E. | last2 = Christensen | first2 = Alexander F. | name-list-style = vanc | title = The Oxus Civilization as a Link between East and West: A Non-Metric Analysis of Bronze Age Bactrain Biological Affinities | date = 3 November 1994 | location = Madison, Wisconsin | page = 13}} (paper read at the South Asia Conference)<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Jobling MA, Tyler-Smith C | s2cid = 13508130 | title = The human Y chromosome: an evolutionary marker comes of age | journal = Nature Reviews. Genetics | volume = 4 | issue = 8 | pages = 598–612 | date = August 2003 | pmid = 12897772 | doi = 10.1038/nrg1124 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Rootsi S, Metspalu M, Mastana S, Kaldma K, Parik J, Metspalu E, Adojaan M, Tolk HV, Stepanov V, Gölge M, Usanga E, Papiha SS, Cinnioğlu C, King R, Cavalli-Sforza L, Underhill PA, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic heritage of the earliest settlers persists both in Indian tribal and caste populations | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 2 | pages = 313–32 | date = February 2003 | pmid = 12536373 | pmc = 379225 | doi = 10.1086/346068 | author-link1 = Toomas Kivisild }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Patowary A, Purkanti R, Singh M, Chauhan RK, Bhartiya D, Dwivedi OP, Chauhan G, Bharadwaj D, Sivasubbu S, Scaria V | s2cid = 11466942 | display-authors = 6 | title = Systematic analysis and functional annotation of variations in the genome of an Indian individual | journal = Human Mutation | volume = 33 | issue = 7 | pages = 1133–40 | date = July 2012 | pmid = 22461382 | doi = 10.1002/humu.22091 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Rootsi S, Magri C, Kivisild T, Benuzzi G, Help H, Bermisheva M, Kutuev I, Barać L, Pericić M, Balanovsky O, Pshenichnov A, Dion D, Grobei M, Zhivotovsky LA, Battaglia V, Achilli A, Al-Zahery N, Parik J, King R, Cinnioğlu C, Khusnutdinova E, Rudan P, Balanovska E, Scheffrahn W, Simonescu M, Brehm A, Goncalves R, Rosa A, Moisan JP, Chaventre A, Ferak V, Füredi S, Oefner PJ, Shen P, Beckman L, Mikerezi I, Terzić R, Primorac D, Cambon-Thomsen A, Krumina A, Torroni A, Underhill PA, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Villems R, Semino O | display-authors = 6 | title = Phylogeography of Y-chromosome haplogroup I reveals distinct domains of prehistoric gene flow in europe | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 75 | issue = 1 | pages = 128–37 | date = July 2004 | pmid = 15162323 | pmc = 1181996 | doi = 10.1086/422196 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Qamar R, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Helgason A, Mazhar K, Mansoor A, Zerjal T, Tyler-Smith C, Mehdi SQ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 5 | pages = 1107–24 | date = May 2002 | pmid = 11898125 | pmc = 447589 | doi = 10.1086/339929 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Semino O, Magri C, Benuzzi G, Lin AA, Al-Zahery N, Battaglia V, Maccioni L, Triantaphyllidis C, Shen P, Oefner PJ, Zhivotovsky LA, King R, Torroni A, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Underhill PA, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS | display-authors = 6 | title = Origin, diffusion, and differentiation of Y-chromosome haplogroups E and J: inferences on the neolithization of Europe and later migratory events in the Mediterranean area | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 74 | issue = 5 | pages = 1023–34 | date = May 2004 | pmid = 15069642 | pmc = 1181965 | doi = 10.1086/386295 }}<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> == Sources ==<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * {{cite journal | author = Indian Genome Variation Consortium | s2cid = 21473349 | title = Genetic landscape of the people of India: a canvas for disease gene exploration | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 87 | issue = 1 | pages = 3–20 | date = April 2008 | pmid = 18560169 | doi = 10.1007/s12041-008-0002-x }}<br /> &lt;!-- E --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Endicott |first1=Phillip |last2=Metspalu |first2=Mait |last3=Kivisild |first3=Toomas | name-list-style = vanc |chapter=Genetic evidence on modern human dispersals in South Asia: Y chromose and mitochondrial DNA perspectives |editor1=Michael D. Petraglia |editor2=Bridget Allchin |title=The Evolution and History of Human Populations in South Asia |publisher=Springer |year=2007 |isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 |pages=201–228 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC&amp;pg=PA201}}<br /> &lt;!-- H --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Hemphill |first1=B.E. |last2=Lukacs |first2=J.R. |last3=Kennedy |first3=K.A.R. | name-list-style = vanc |chapter=Biological Adaptations and Affinities of Bronze Age Harappans |editor1-first=Richard H. |editor1-last=Meadow |title=Harappa excavations 1986–1990: a multidisciplinary approach to third millennium urbanism |year=1991 |pages=137–82 |isbn=978-0-9629110-1-9 }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{Cite book | last1 = Kennedy | first1 = Kenneth A.R. | name-list-style = vanc | author-link = Kenneth A.R. Kennedy | chapter = A Reassessment of the Theories of Racial Origins of the People of the Indus Valley Civilization from Recent Anthropological Data | title = Studies in the Archaeology and Palaeoanthropology of South Asia | pages = 99–107 | editor1-last = Kennedy | editor1-first = Kenneth A.R. | editor2-last = Possehl | editor2-first = Gregory L. | publisher = Humanities Press | year = 1984 | location = [[Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey|Atlantic Highlands, NJ]]}}&lt;!--? Oxford: American Institute of Indian Studies--&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Kennedy |first=Kenneth A. R. | name-list-style = vanc |year=1995 |chapter=Have Aryans been identified in the prehistoric skeletal record from South Asia? |editor=George Erdosy |title=The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia |publisher=Walter de Gruyter |isbn=978-3-11-014447-5 |pages=49–54 |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=A6ZRShEIFwMC&amp;pg=PA49}}<br /> * {{Cite book | last = Kivisild | first = Toomas | name-list-style = vanc | title = The origins of southern and western Eurasian populations: an mtDNA study | publisher = Tartu University, Estonia | year = 2000b | url = http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000PhD.pdf }} (PhD)<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Mascarenhas DD, Raina A, Aston CE, Sanghera DK | title = Genetic and Cultural Reconstruction of the Migration of an Ancient Lineage | journal = BioMed Research International | volume = 2015 | pages = 651415 | year = 2015 | pmid = 26491681 | pmc = 4605215 | doi = 10.1155/2015/651415 }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | s2cid =89658279 | name-list-style = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | biorxiv =10.1101/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 | hdl =21.11116/0000-0001-E7B3-0 | hdl-access =free }}<br /> &lt;!-- O --&gt;<br /> * {{Cite book | last = Oppenheimer | first = Stephen | name-list-style = vanc | author-link = Stephen Oppenheimer | title = The Real Eve: Modern Man's Journey out of Africa | year = 2003 | location = New York | publisher = Carroll and Graf Publishers | isbn = 978-0-7867-1192-5}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation | last1 =Pamjav | s2cid =4820868 | title =Brief communication: New Y-chromosome binary markers improve phylogenetic resolution within haplogroup R1a1 | journal =American Journal of Physical Anthropology| volume= 149| issue= 4| pages= 611–615|date= December 2012 | doi=10.1002/ajpa.22167 | pmid=23115110}}<br /> * {{Cite book | year = 2000a | title = An Indian Ancestry: a Key for Understanding Human Diversity in Europe and Beyond | editor1-last = Renfrew | editor1-first = Colin | editor2-last = Boyle | editor2-first = Katie | name-list-style = vanc | url = http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Kivisild2000.pdf | isbn= 978-1-902937-08-3}}<br /> &lt;!-- S --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Silva M, Oliveira M, Vieira D, Brandão A, Rito T, Pereira JB, Fraser RM, Hudson B, Gandini F, Edwards C, Pala M, Koch J, Wilson JF, Pereira L, Richards MB, Soares P | display-authors = 6 | title = A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 17 | issue = 1 | pages = 88 | date = March 2017 | pmid = 28335724 | pmc = 5364613 | doi = 10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 |ref={{sfnref|Silva et al.|2017}}}}<br /> &lt;!-- U --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA | s2cid = 15527457 | title = Inferring human history: clues from Y-chromosome haplotypes | journal = Cold Spring Harbor Symposia on Quantitative Biology | volume = 68 | pages = 487–93 | year = 2003 | pmid = 15338652 | doi = 10.1101/sqb.2003.68.487 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Poznik GD, Rootsi S, Järve M, Lin AA, Wang J, Passarelli B, Kanbar J, Myres NM, King RJ, Di Cristofaro J, Sahakyan H, Behar DM, Kushniarevich A, Sarac J, Saric T, Rudan P, Pathak AK, Chaubey G, Grugni V, Semino O, Yepiskoposyan L, Bahmanimehr A, Farjadian S, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Herrera RJ, Chiaroni J, Bustamante CD, Quake SR, Kivisild T, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 23 | issue = 1 | pages = 124–31 | date = January 2015 | pmid = 24667786 | pmc = 4266736 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2014.50 }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | vauthors = Wells S |year=2003 |title=The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | url = https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well | url-access = registration |publisher=Princeton University Press}}<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> {{Wikiquote}}<br /> * [http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/NewWebSurnames041008.html ''Introduction to Haplogroups and Haplotypes''], Mark A. Jobling, University of Leicester. [http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/SurnamesForWeb.pdf ]<br /> * [http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ Journey of Man: Peopling of the World], Bradshaw Foundation, in association with [[Stephen Oppenheimer]].<br /> *[http://igvdb.res.in/ Indian Genome Variation Database] [[Institute of Genomics and Integrative Biology]]<br /> * [http://sites.google.com/site/r2dnainfo/R2-Home/r2-dna/r2-frequency/r2-frequencies-worldwide?pli=1 List of R2 frequency]<br /> * [http://maldives-ancestry.blogspot.in/2013/05/maldivian-ancestry-in-light-of-genetics.html Maldives]<br /> <br /> {{Human genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Human Y-DNA haplogroups|+]]<br /> [[Category:Human genetics|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Modern human genetic history|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Genetics by country|South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:South Asia]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ilber8000&diff=1012653419 User:Ilber8000 2021-03-17T15:52:43Z <p>Ilber8000: </p> <hr /> <div>Hello.<br /> <br /> I enjoy learning about history &amp; archaeology, I mostly contribute to Wikipedia on these subjects. I edit art &amp; culture related topics from [[User:Vikandy|Vickandy]].<br /> <br /> {{User:J.P.Lon/Userboxes/Human-prehistory}}{{Template:User history}}{{User:A. Pseudonym/UBX/Archaeology}}</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dravidian_folk_religion&diff=1009515149 Dravidian folk religion 2021-03-01T00:15:16Z <p>Ilber8000: Vandalism of source content over several months, see history - Restored to original content, resorted scholarly sources.</p> <hr /> <div>{{pp-dispute|small=yes}}<br /> The early Dravidian religion refers to a broad range of belief systems which existed in South Asia before the arrival of Indo-Aryans.{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}} Scholars do not share a uniform consensus on early Dravidian religion but many scholars associated it with [[Neolithic]] societies of South Asia{{sfn|Sjoberg|1990}} which was later assimilated into migrating Indo-Aryan society{{sfn|Sjoberg|1990}} leading to formation of early Indian religious and cultural synthesis.{{sfn|Sjoberg|1990}}{{refn|group=note||name=Lockard}}{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}} Some scholars suggest early Dravidian religion were either historically or are at present [[Āgama (Hinduism)|Āgamic]].&lt;ref name=Narasimhachary&gt;Mudumby Narasimhachary (Ed) (1976). Āgamaprāmāṇya of Yāmunācārya, Issue 160 of Gaekwad's Oriental Series. Oriental Institute, Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda.&lt;/ref&gt; and have been dated either as post-vedic&lt;ref name=&quot;Tripath&quot;&gt;Tripath, S.M. (2001). Psycho-Religious Studies Of Man, Mind And Nature. Global Vision Publishing House. {{ISBN|9788187746041}}. [https://books.google.com/books?id=zWFM_SaX24AC&amp;pg=PA54]&lt;/ref&gt; or as pre-vedic compositions&lt;ref name=Nagalingam&gt;Nagalingam, Pathmarajah (2009). The Religion of the Agamas. Siddhanta Publications. [http://www.siddha.com.my/forum/religionoftheagamas/chapter3.html]&lt;/ref&gt; which were assimilated to the Vedic fold.&lt;ref&gt;PT Raju (2009), The Philosophical Traditions of India, Routledge, {{ISBN|978-81-208-0983-3}}, page 45; Quote: ''The word Agama means 'coming down', and the literature is that of traditions, which are mixtures of the Vedic with some non-Vedic ones, which were later assimilated to the Vedic''.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Guy Beck (1993), Sonic Theology: Hinduism and Sacred Sound, University of South Carolina Press, {{ISBN|978-0-87249-855-6}}, pages 151–152&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=Darbu&gt;Drabu, V. N. (1990). [https://books.google.com/books?id=vEKkuLQUza8C&amp;pg=PA31 Śaivāgamas: A Study in the Socio-economic Ideas and Institutions of Kashmir (200 B.C. to A.D. 700)], Indus Publishing Company. {{ISBN|978-81-85182-38-4}}. LCCN lc90905805&lt;/ref&gt; The ''Agamas'' are a collection of [[Tamil language|Tamil]] and [[Sanskrit]] [[religious text|scriptures]] chiefly constituting the methods of temple construction and creation of ''[[murti]]'', means of worshiping deities, philosophical doctrines, meditative practices, attainment of sixfold desires and four kinds of yoga.&lt;ref name=Grimes&gt;Grimes, John A. (1996). A Concise Dictionary of Indian Philosophy: Sanskrit Terms Defined in English. State University of New York Press. {{ISBN|9780791430682}}. LCCN 96012383. [http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=eP5p0ev3nJEC]&lt;/ref&gt; The worship of [[tutelary deity|tutelary deities]] and sacred flora and fauna in Hinduism is also recognized as a survival of the pre-Vedic Dravidian religion.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=The Modern review: Volume 28; Volume 28|year=1920|publisher=Prabasi Press Private, Ltd.}}&lt;/ref&gt; Dravidian linguistic influence on early Vedic religion is evident; many of these features are already present in the oldest known [[Indo-Aryan language]], the language of the ''[[Rigveda]]'' (c. 1500 BCE), which also includes over a dozen words borrowed from Dravidian. The linguistic evidence for Dravidian impact grows increasingly strong as we move from the Samhitas down through the later Vedic works and into the classical post-Vedic literature.{{sfnp|Krishnamurti|2003|p=6}} This represents an early religious and cultural fusion{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}{{refn|group=note|name=Lockard|Lockard: &quot;The encounters that resulted from Aryan migration brought together several very different peoples and cultures, reconfiguring Indian society. Over many centuries a fusion of [[Indo-Aryan peoples|Aryan]] and [[Dravidian peoples|Dravidian]] occurred, a complex process that historians have labeled the Indo-Aryan synthesis.&quot;{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}} Lockard: &quot;Hinduism can be seen historically as a synthesis of Aryan beliefs with Harappan and other Dravidian traditions that developed over many centuries.&quot;{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}}} or synthesis{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}} between ancient Dravidians and Indo-Aryans that went on to influence Indian civilization.{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}{{sfn|Zimmer|1951|p=218-219}}{{sfn|Larson|1995|p=81}}&lt;ref name=&quot;RDeC&quot;&gt;{{cite book|title=Haunting the Buddha: Indian Popular Religions and the Formation of Buddhism|last=DeCaroli|first=Robert|year=2004|publisher=[[Oxford University Press]], US| isbn=978-0-19-516838-9}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Classification==<br /> Scholars do not share a uniform consensus on early Dravidian religion. Some scholars believed that the Dravidian religion was a belief system unique to the [[Neolithic]] people of South Asia before the arrival of Indo-Aryans. Dr. Pope believes that in the pre-historic period the Dravidian religion was a precursor to Shaivism and Shaktism.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Iyengar|first=T. R. Sesha|title=Dravidian India|year=1982|publisher=Asian Educational Services}}&lt;/ref&gt; While John B. Magee was of the view that native Dravidian religion prior to 1500 BC was unclear.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Magee|first=John Benjamin|title=Religion and modern man: a study of the religious meaning of being human|url=https://archive.org/details/religionmodernma00mage|url-access=registration|year=1967|publisher=Harper &amp; Row}}&lt;/ref&gt; Other scholars define it as a non-Vedic part of [[Hinduism]]. Henry O. Thompson's definition of [[Hinduism]] included Dravidian traditions as one of the important foundational element.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Thompson|first=Henry O.|title=World religions in war and peace|year=1988|publisher=McFarland}}&lt;/ref&gt; Sjoberg claims that the Dravidian religion influenced [[Hinduism]] more than its Aryan counterpart,{{sfn|Sjoberg|1990|p=43}}{{refn|group=note|Tyler, in ''India: An Anthropological Perspective''(1973), page 68, as quoted by Sjoberg, calls Hinduism a &quot;synthesis&quot; in which the Dravidian elements prevail: &quot;The Hindu synthesis was less the dialectical reduction of orthodoxy and heterodoxy than the resurgence of the ancient, aboriginal Indus civilization. In this process the rude, barbaric Aryan tribes were gradually civilised and eventually merged with the autochthonous Dravidians. Although elements of their domestic cult and ritualism were jealously preserved by Brahman priests, the body of their culture survived only in fragmentary tales and allegories embedded in vast, syncretistic compendia. On the whole, the Aryan contribution to Indian culture is insignificant. The essential pattern of Indian culture was already established in the third millennium B.C., and ... the form of Indian civilization perdured and eventually reasserted itself.{{sfn|Sjoberg|1990|p=43}}}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Khan|first=Abdul Jamil|title=Urdu/Hindi: an artificial divide : African heritage, Mesopotamian roots, Indian culture &amp; British colonialism|year=2006|publisher=Algora Publishing}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Eliot|first=Charles|title=Hinduism and Buddhism, Vol I. (of 3)|year=2007|publisher=Echo Library|pages=12}}&lt;/ref&gt; Elmore suggests Dravidian belief in [[afterlife]] was common and is contrary to the [[reincarnation]] concept that evolved somewhere in northern India after the Indo-Aryan migration.&lt;ref&gt;Grimes, John A. (1996). A Concise Dictionary of Indian Philosophy: Sanskrit Terms Defined in English. State University of New York Press. {{ISBN|9780791430682}}. {{LCCN|96012383}}.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Jamison, Stephanie; Witzel, Michael (1992). &quot;Vedic Hinduism&quot; (PDF). Harvard University. pp. 2–4. Retrieved 2019-01-23.&lt;/ref&gt; Gustav oppert suggests Dravidian religion was centered the worship of Goddess as mother, protector of villages and the seven sisters identified with Matrikas.&lt;ref&gt;Gustav oppert, original inhabitants of Bharata. &lt;&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Dravidian Gods in Modern Hinduism, Wilder Theodre Elmore&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Vicissitudes of Goddess, Sree Padma &lt;/ref&gt; Wilder Theodre Elmore comments that the Dravidian folks religions are not a simple form of animism, but exhibit complex [[Metaphysics|metaphysical concepts]].&lt;ref&gt;page 134 Dravidian Gods in Modern Hinduism, Wilder Theodre Elmore&lt;/ref&gt; The widespread worship of certain village deities of Karnataka and Tamil Nadu may be argued to reflect a survival of the pre-Brahmanic religious tradition.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=The Modern review: Volume 28; Volume 28|year=1920|publisher=Prabasi Press Private, Ltd.}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Schastok, Sara L. ''The Śamalājī Sculptures and Sixth-Century Art in Western India.'' Leiden: Brill, 1985. pp.58–60&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Guy Beck (1993), Sonic Theology: Hinduism and Sacred Sound, University of South Carolina Press, {{ISBN|978-0-87249-855-6}}, pages 151–152&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> &lt;blockquote&gt;<br /> The cult of the Female Principle was a major aspect of Dravidian religion, The concept of Shakti was an integral part of their religion [...] The cult of the ''Sapta Matrika'', or Seven Divine Mothers, which is an integral part of the Shakta religion, may be of Dravidian inspiration.&lt;ref&gt;Bhattacharyya, N. N., ''History of the Sakta Religion'', Munshiram Manoharlal Publishers Pvt. Ltd. (New Delhi, 1974, 2d ed. 1996).&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> &lt;/blockquote&gt; <br /> ===Early religious and cultural synthesis===<br /> Dravidian influence on early Vedic religion is evident, many of these features are already present in the oldest known [[Indo-Aryan language]], the language of the ''[[Rigveda]]'' (c. 1500 BCE), which also includes over a dozen words borrowed from Dravidian.{{sfnp|Krishnamurti|2003|p=6}} The linguistic evidence for Dravidian impact grows increasingly strong as we move from the Samhitas down through the later Vedic works and into the classical post-Vedic literature.{{sfnp|Krishnamurti|2003|p=6}} This represents an early religious and cultural fusion{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}{{refn|group=note|name=Lockard}} or synthesis{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}} between ancient Dravidians and Indo-Aryans, which became more evident over time with sacred iconography, traditions, philosophy, flora and fauna that went on to influence [[Hinduism]], [[Buddhism]], [[Jainism]], [[Sramana]] and [[Charvaka]].{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}{{sfn|Zimmer|1951|p=218-219}}{{sfn|Larson|1995|p=81}}<br /> <br /> Scholars regard the modern [[Hinduism]] as a fusion{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}{{refn|group=note||name=Lockard}} or synthesis{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}}{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;Hiltebeitel&quot;|Hiltebeitel: &quot;A period of consolidation, sometimes identified as one of &quot;Hindu synthesis,&quot; Brahmanic synthesis,&quot; or &quot;orthodox synthesis,&quot; takes place between the time of the late Vedic Upanishads (c. 500 BCE) and the period of Gupta imperial ascendency&quot; (c. 320-467 CE).&quot;}}{{sfn|Samuel|2010|p=193}} of various Indian cultures and traditions.{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}}{{sfn|Flood|1996|p=16}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}&lt;!---START OF EXTENSIVE NOTE &quot;name=fusion&quot;---&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=fusion|See also:<br /> * J.H. Hutton (1931), in {{citation | last =Ghurye | first =Govind Sadashiv |year =1980| title =The Scheduled Tribes of India | publisher =Transaction Publishers | isbn =9781412838856 | url =https://books.google.com/books?id=pTNmCIc9hCUC&amp;q=australoids+india+religion}}{{sfn|Ghurye|1980|p=3-4}}{{refn|group=note|Ghurye: He [Hutton] considers modern Hinduism to be the result of an amalgam between pre-Aryan Indian beliefs of Mediterranean inspiration and the religion of the Rigveda. &quot;The Tribal religions present, as it were, surplus material not yet buit into the temple of Hinduism&quot;.{{sfn|Ghurye|1980|p=4}}}} <br /> * {{citation | last =Zimmer | first =Heinrich | year =1951 | title =Philosophies of India | publisher =Princeton University Press}}{{sfn|Zimmer|1951|p=218-219}}<br /> * Tyler (1973), ''India: An Anthropological Perspective'', Goodyear Publishing Company. In: Sjoberg 1990,{{sfn|Sjoberg|1990|p=43}}{{refn|group=note|Tyler, in ''India: An Anthropological Perspective''(1973), page 68, as quoted by Sjoberg, calls Hinduism a &quot;synthesis&quot; in which the Dravidian elements prevail: &quot;The Hindu synthesis was less the dialectical reduction of orthodoxy and heterodoxy than the resurgence of the ancient, aboriginal Indus civilization. In this process the rude, barbaric Aryan tribes were gradually civilised and eventually merged with the autochthonous Dravidians. Although elements of their domestic cult and ritualism were jealously preserved by Brahman priests, the body of their culture survived only in fragmentary tales and allegories embedded in vast, syncretistic compendia. On the whole, the Aryan contribution to Indian culture is insignificant. The essential pattern of Indian culture was already established in the third millennium B.C., and ... the form of Indian civilization perdured and eventually reasserted itself.{{sfn|Sjoberg|1990|p=43}}}}<br /> * {{citation | last =Sjoberg | first =Andree F. | year =1990 | title =The Dravidian Contribution To The Development Of Indian Civilization: A Call For A Reassessment | journal =Comparative Civilizations Review. 23:40-74 | url =https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/CCR/article/download/13469/13403}}{{sfn|Sjoberg|1990}}<br /> * {{citation | last =Flood | first =Gavin D. | year =1996 | title =An Introduction to Hinduism | publisher =Cambridge University Press}}{{sfn|Flood|1996|p=16}}<br /> * {{citation | last =Nath | first =Vijay | date =March–April 2001 | title =From 'Brahmanism' to 'Hinduism': Negotiating the Myth of the Great Tradition | journal =Social Scientist | volume =29 | issue =3/4 | pages =19–50 | doi=10.2307/3518337 |jstor=3518337}}{{sfn|Nath|2001}}<br /> * {{citation | last =Werner | first =karel | year =2005 | title =A Popular Dictionary of Hinduism | publisher =Routledge | isbn =9781135797539 | url =https://books.google.com/books?id=HvuQAgAAQBAJ&amp;q=hinduism+synthesis}}{{sfn|Werner|2005|p=8-9}}<br /> * {{citation | last =Lockard | first =Craig A. | year =2007 | title =Societies, Networks, and Transitions. Volume I: to 1500 | publisher =Cengage Learning | isbn =978-0618386123 | url =https://books.google.com/books?id=yJPlCpzOY_QC&amp;pg=PA50}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}<br /> * {{citation | last =Hiltebeitel | first=Alf |author-link=Alf Hiltebeitel |year=2007 | title =Hinduism. In: Joseph Kitagawa, &quot;The Religious Traditions of Asia: Religion, History, and Culture&quot; | publisher =Routledge | isbn=9781136875977 | url =https://books.google.com/books?id=kfyzAAAAQBAJ}}{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007}}<br /> * {{citation | last1 =Hopfe | first1 =Lewis M. | last2 =Woodward | first2 =Mark R. | year =2008 | title =Religions of the World | publisher =Pearson Education | isbn =9780136061779 | url =https://books.google.com/books?id=BVbiMBDVrdEC&amp;pg=PA79}}{{sfn|Hopfe|2008|p=79}}{{refn|group=note|name=Hopfe|Hopfe &amp; Woodward: &quot;The religion that the Aryans brought with them mingled with the religion of the native people, and the culture that developed between them became classical Hinduism.&quot;{{sfn|Hopfe|2008|p=79}}}}<br /> * {{citation | last =Samuel | first =Geoffrey | year =2010 | title =The Origins of Yoga and Tantra. Indic Religions to the Thirteenth Century | publisher =Cambridge University Press}}{{sfn|Samuel|2010}}}}&lt;!---END OF EXTENSIVE NOTE &quot;name=fusion&quot;---&gt; Among its roots are the [[historical Vedic religion]] of [[Iron Age India]],{{sfn|Samuel|2010|p=41-42}}{{sfn|Flood|1996|p=16}} itself already the product of &quot;a composite of the indo-Aryan and Harappan cultures and civilizations&quot;,{{sfn|White|2006|p=28}}{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;Vedic composite&quot;|See:<br /> * David Gordo White: &quot;[T]he religion of the Vedas was already a composite of the Indo-Aryan and Harappan cultures and civilizations.&quot;{{sfn|White|2006|p=28}}<br /> * Richard Gombrich: &quot;It is important to bear in mind that the Indo-Aryans did not enter an unhabited (sic) land. For nearly two millennia they and their culture gradually penetrated India, moving east and south from their original seat in the Punjab. They mixed with people who spoke Munda or Dravidian languages, who have left no traces of their culture beyond some archaeological remains; we know as little about them as we would about the Indo-Aryans if they had left no texts. In fact we cannot even be sure whether some of the aerchaeological finds belong to Indo-Aryans, autochthonous populations, or a mixture.{{paragraph break}} It is to be assumed - though this is not fashionable in Indian historiography - that the clash of cultures between Indo-Aryans and autochtones was responsible for many of the changes in Indo-Aryan society. We can also assume that many - perhaps most - of the indigenous population came to be assimilated into Indo-Aryan culture.{{sfn|Gombrich|1996|p=35-36}}}} but also the [[Sramana]]{{sfn|Gomez|2002|p=42}} or renouncer traditions{{sfn|Flood|1996|p=16}} of [[Maurya Empire|northeast India]],{{sfn|Gomez|2002|p=42}} and mesolithic{{sfn|Doniger|2010|p=66}} and neolithic{{sfn|Jones|2006|p=xvii}} cultures of India, such as the religions of the [[Indus Valley Civilisation]],{{sfn|Narayanan|2009|p=11}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=3}}{{sfn|Jones|2006|p=xviii}} [[Dravidian peoples|Dravidian]] traditions,{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}{{sfn|Zimmer|1951|p=218-219}}{{sfn|Larson|1995|p=81}} and the [[Adivasi|local traditions]]{{sfn|Flood|1996|p=16}} and [[Tribal religions in India|tribal religions]].{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}}{{refn|group=note|Tiwari mentions the [[Austroasiatic|Austric]] and [[Mongoloid]] people.{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}} See also [[Adivasi|Adivasi people]] for the variety of Indian people.}}<br /> <br /> ==Religion in ancient Tamilakam==<br /> {{Main article|Sangam literature|Tamilakam}}<br /> [[File:WLA lacma 12th century Maharishi Agastya.jpg|170px|thumb|Sage Agastya, father of Tamil literature.]]<br /> Ancient Tamil grammatical works [[Tolkappiyam]], the ten anthologies [[Pattuppāṭṭu]], the eight anthologies [[Eṭṭuttokai]] sheds light on early ancient Dravidian religion. ''[[Murugan|Seyyon]]'' was glorified as, ''the red god seated on the blue peacock, who is ever young and resplendent,'' as ''the favored god of the Tamils.''&lt;ref name=&quot;Kanchan Sinha 1979&quot;&gt;Kanchan Sinha, Kartikeya in Indian art and literature, Delhi: Sundeep Prakashan (1979).&lt;/ref&gt; [[Shiva|Sivan]] was also seen as the supreme God.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kanchan Sinha 1979&quot; /&gt; Early iconography of [[Murugan|Seyyon]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Mahadevan|first=Iravatham|title=A Note on the Muruku Sign of the Indus Script in light of the Mayiladuthurai Stone Axe Discovery|year=2006|publisher=harappa.com|url=http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html|url-status=dead|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20060904034700/http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html|archive-date=2006-09-04}}&lt;/ref&gt; and [[Shiva|Sivan]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book| title = The Making of India: A Historical Survey| url = https://archive.org/details/makingindiahisto00vohr| url-access = limited| author = Ranbir Vohra| publisher = M.E. Sharpe| year = 2000| page = [https://archive.org/details/makingindiahisto00vohr/page/n10 15]}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book| title = Ancient Indian Civilization| author = Grigorii Maksimovich Bongard-Levin| publisher = Arnold-Heinemann| year = 1985| page = 45}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book| title = Essential Hinduism| author = Steven Rosen, Graham M. Schweig| publisher = Greenwood Publishing Group| year = 2006| page = 45}}&lt;/ref&gt; and their association with native flora and fauna goes back to Indus Valley Civilization.&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvnb|Basham|1967}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book| title = Plants of life, plants of death| author = Frederick J. Simoons| year = 1998 |page=363}}&lt;/ref&gt; The [[Sangam landscape]] was classified into five categories, ''thinais'', based on the mood, the season and the land. [[Tolkappiyam]], mentions that each of these ''thinai'' had an associated deity such [[Murugan|Seyyon]] in ''Kurinji''-the hills, [[Thirumal|Thirumaal]] in ''Mullai''-the forests, and [[Korravai]] in ''Marutham''-the plains, and [[Indra|Wanji-ko]] in the ''Neithal''-the coasts and the seas. Other gods mentioned were [[Krishna|Mayyon]] and Vaali who were all assimilated into Hinduism over time.<br /> <br /> [[File:01AnnamalaiyarTemple&amp;Thiruvannamalai&amp;TamilNadu&amp;AerialViewfromVirupakshaCave.jpg|thumb|left|Typical layout of Dravidian architecture which evolved from ''koyil'' as kings residence.]]<br /> Throughout [[Tamilakam]], a king was considered to be divine by nature and possessed religious significance.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Harman|first=William P.|title=The sacred marriage of a Hindu goddess|year=1992|publisher=Motilal Banarsidass|pages=6}}&lt;/ref&gt; The king was 'the representative of God on earth’ and lived in a “koyil”, which means the “residence of a god”. The Modern Tamil word for temple is [[koil]] ({{lang-ta|கோயில்}}). Titual worship was also given to kings.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Anand|first=Mulk Raj|title=Splendours of Tamil Nadu |year=1980|publisher=Marg Publications|url=https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&amp;safe=off&amp;noj=1&amp;prmdo=1&amp;biw=1067&amp;bih=565&amp;tbm=bks&amp;q=The+king+is+%27the+representative+of+God+on+earth%27+and+lives+in+a+palace+called+%27+Koyil%27%2C+which+means+the+residence+of+God.+The+ritual+worship+of+God&amp;oq=The+king+is+%27the+representative+of+God+on+earth%27+and+lives+in+a+palace+called+%27+Kovil%27%2C+which+means+the+residence+of+God.+The+ritual+worship+of+God&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=&amp;aql=&amp;gs_l=serp.3…0.0.0.8227.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0…0.0.DdIt9d1ZNjo}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Chopra|first=Pran Nath|title=History of South India|year=1979|publisher=S. Chand|url=https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&amp;safe=off&amp;noj=1&amp;prmdo=1&amp;biw=1067&amp;bih=565&amp;tbm=bks&amp;q=The+king+is+%27the+representative+of+God+on+earth%27+and+lives+in+a+palace+called+%27+Kovil%27%2C+which+means+the+residence+of+God.+The+ritual+worship+of+God&amp;oq=The+king+is+%27the+representative+of+God+on+earth%27+and+lives+in+a+palace+called+%27+Koyil%27%2C+which+means+the+residence+of+God.+The+ritual+worship+of+God&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=&amp;aql=&amp;gs_l=serp.3…0.0.0.8227.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0…0.0.DdIt9d1ZNjo}}&lt;/ref&gt; Modern words for god like “kō” ({{lang-ta|கோ}} “king”), “iṟai” ({{lang|ta|இறை}} “emperor”) and “āṇḍavar” ({{lang|ta|ஆண்டவன்}} “conqueror”) now primarily refer to gods. These elements were incorporated later into [[Hinduism]] like the legendary marriage of [[Shiva]] to Queen Mīnātchi who ruled [[Madurai]] or [[Legendary early Chola kings#Cholas of the Sangam period|Wanji-ko]], a god who later merged into [[Indra]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Bate|first=Bernard|title=Tamil oratory and the Dravidian aesthetic: democratic practice in south India|year=2009|publisher=Columbia University Press}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Tolkappiyar]] refers to the [[Three Crowned Kings]] as the “Three Glorified by Heaven”, ({{indic|lang=ta|indic=வான்புகழ் மூவர்|trans=Vāṉpukaḻ Mūvar}}).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=A. Kiruṭṭin̲an̲|title=Tamil culture: religion, culture, and literature|year=2000|publisher=Bharatiya Kala Prakashan|pages=17}}&lt;/ref&gt; In the Dravidian-speaking South, the concept of divine kingship led to the assumption of major roles by state and temple.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Embree|first=Ainslie Thomas|author-link=Ainslie Embree|title=Encyclopedia of Asian history: Volume 1|year=1988|publisher=Scribner|isbn=9780684188980|url=https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofas0000embr|url-access=registration}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The cult of the mother goddess is treated as an indication of a society which venerated femininity. This mother goddess was conceived as a virgin, one who has given birth to all and one and was typically associated with [[History of Shaktism|Shaktism]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Thiruchandran|first=Selvy|title=Ideology, caste, class, and gender|year=1997|publisher=Vikas Pub. House}}&lt;/ref&gt; Her worship was accepted in the northern parts of India with various names as Devi, Ksetradevata etc.&lt;ref&gt;On the original inhabitants of Bharatavarsa or India, Oppert, Gustav Salomon, 1836-1908, page 17&lt;/ref&gt; More recent scholarship has been correcting the misrepresentation made by a section of Westerner and Indian Brahmanical scholars in portrayal of the tradition of goddess. Western scholars like Denobili portrayed Brahmin as &quot;gentilism&quot; and the goddess tradition as &quot;idolatarous&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;Visicssitudes of the Goddess, Sree Padma,goddess explained, page 11&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The temples of the Sangam days, mainly of Madurai, seem to have had priestesses to the deity, which also appear predominantly a goddess.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Manickam|first=Valliappa Subramaniam|title=A glimpse of Tamilology|year=1968|publisher=Academy of Tamil Scholars of Tamil Nadu|pages=75|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bIQOAAAAYAAJ&amp;q=sangam+priestess}}&lt;/ref&gt; In the Sangam literature, there is an elaborate description of the rites performed by the Kurava priestess in the shrine Palamutircholai.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Lal|first=Mohan|title=The Encyclopaedia Of Indian Literature Volume Five (Sasay To Zorgot), Volume 5|year=2006|publisher=Sahitya Akademi|isbn=8126012218|pages=4396}}&lt;/ref&gt; Among the early Dravidians the practice of erecting memorial stones “[[hero stone|Natukal]]’' had appeared, and it continued for quite a long time after the Sangam age, down to about 16th century.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Shashi|first=S. S.|title=Encyclopaedia Indica: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh: Volume 100|year=1996|publisher=Anmol Publications}}&lt;/ref&gt; It was customary for people who sought victory in war to worship these [[hero stone]]s to bless them with victory.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Subramanium|first=N.|title=Śaṅgam polity: the administration and social life of the Śaṅgam Tamils|year=1980|publisher=Ennes Publications}}&lt;/ref&gt; Many Hindu sects such as [[Bhakti movement]] and [[Lingayatism]] originated in [[Tamil Nadu]] and [[Karnataka]] respectively. In addition to literary sources, folk festivals, village deities, shamanism, ritual theater and traditions, which are unique to the region, are also good indicators of what early Dravidian people believed/practiced.<br /> <br /> [[File:Ayyanar idols near Gobichettipalayam.jpg|right|thumb|170px|Ayyanar, guardian folk deity of Tamil Nadu villages]]<br /> <br /> The most popular deity is [[Murugan]], he is known as the patron god of the Tamils and is also called ''Tamil Kadavul'' (Tamil God).&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Murukan in Cankam Literature: Veriyattu Tribal Worship|author= M. Shanmugam Pillai| work=First International Conference Seminar on Skanda-Murukan in Chennai, 28–30 December 1998. This article first appeared in the September 1999 issue of The Journal of the Institute of Asian Studies | url= http://murugan.org/research/shanmugampillai.htm | access-date=6 December 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Harold G. Coward,John R. Hinnells,Raymond Brady Williams, ''The South Asian Religious Diaspora in Britain, Canada, and the United States''&lt;/ref&gt; In Tamil tradition, Murugan is the youngest son and [[Ganesha|Pillayar]] the oldest son of [[Shiva|Sivan]], this differs from the North Indian tradition, which represents Murugan as the oldest son. The goddess [[Parvati]] is often depicted as having a green complexion in Tamil Hindu tradition, implying her association with nature. The worship of [[Amman (goddess)|Amman]], also called [[Mariamman]], who is thought to have been derived from an ancient [[mother goddess]] is also very common.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation | title= Principles and Practice of Hindu Religion| work=Hindu Heritage Study Program |url=http://www.bnaiyer.com/hinduism/hist-34.html |access-date=5 December 2006|archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20061114082702/http://www.bnaiyer.com/hinduism/hist-34.html |archive-date = 14 November 2006|url-status=dead}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Kannagi|Kan̲n̲agi]], the heroine of the [[Cilappatikaram|Cilappatikār̲am]], is worshipped as [[Pattini|Pattin̲i]] by many Tamils, particularly in Sri Lanka.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Tracing the Sri Lanka-Kerala link|author= PK Balachandran |work=Hindustan Times, 23 March 2006 | url= http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5983_1657214,00430014.htm |access-date=5 December 2006 |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20061210184751/http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5983_1657214,00430014.htm |archive-date = 10 December 2006|url-status=dead}}&lt;/ref&gt; There are also many followers of [[Ayyavazhi]] in Tamil Nadu, mainly in the southern districts.&lt;ref&gt;''Dr. R.Ponnu''s, Sri Vaikunda Swamigal and the Struggle for Social Equality in South India, (Madurai Kamaraj University) ''Ram Publishers'', Page 98&lt;/ref&gt; In addition, there are many temples and devotees of [[Vishnu]], [[Shiva|Siva]], [[Ganapathi]], and the other Hindu deities.<br /> <br /> In rural [[Tamil Nadu]], many local deities, called ''[[aiyyanar|aiyyan̲ārs]]'', are believed to be the spirits of local heroes who protect the village from harm.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |title= Horse Shrines in Tamil India: Reflections on Modernity|author= [[Mark Jarzombek]]| journal=Future Anterior |year= 2009| url= http://web.mit.edu/mmj4/www/downloads/future_ant4_1.pdf | volume=4 | issue=1 | pages=18–36 | doi=10.1353/fta.0.0031|s2cid= 191627473}}&lt;/ref&gt; Their worship often centres around ''nadukkal'', stones erected in memory of heroes who died in battle. This form of worship is mentioned frequently in classical literature and appears to be the surviving remnants of an ancient Tamil tradition.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation | title= 'Hero stone' unearthed | work=The Hindu, 22 July 2006| url= http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/22/stories/2006072202680200.htm |access-date=5 December 2006 | location=Chennai, India | date=22 July 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; The early Dravidian religion constituted a non-[[Historical Vedic religion|Vedic]] form of [[Hinduism]] in that they were either historically or are at present [[Āgama (Hinduism)|Āgamic]]. The Agamas are non-[[vedic]] in origin&lt;ref name=&quot;Narasimhachary&quot;&gt;Mudumby Narasimhachary (Ed) (1976). Āgamaprāmāṇya of Yāmunācārya, Issue 160 of Gaekwad's Oriental Series. Oriental Institute, Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda.&lt;/ref&gt; and have been dated either as post-Vedic texts&lt;ref name=&quot;Tripath&quot; /&gt; or as pre-Vedic compositions.&lt;ref name=&quot;Nagalingam&quot;&gt;Nagalingam, Pathmarajah (2009). The Religion of the Agamas. Siddhanta Publications. [http://www.siddha.com.my/forum/religionoftheagamas/chapter3.html]&lt;/ref&gt; A large portion of these deities continue to be worshipped as the [[Village deities of Tamil Nadu]] and [[Village deities of Tamils of Sri Lanka|Sri Lanka]], and their subsequent influence in [[South-east Asia]], examples of which include the Mariamman temples in [[Sri Mariamman Temple, Singapore|Singapore]] and [[Mariamman Temple, Ho Chi Minh City|Vietnam]]. Worship of anthills, snakes and other forms of guardian deities and heroes are still worshiped in the [[Konkan coast]], [[Maharashtra]] proper and a few other parts of India including [[North India]] which traces its origins to ancient Dravidian religion which has been influencing formation of mainstream Hinduism for thousands of years.<br /> <br /> A [[hero stone]], known as “Natukal” by [[Tamils]] and “Virgal” by [[Kannadigas]], is a memorial commemorating the honorable death of a hero in battle. Erected between the 3rd century BC and the 18th century AD, hero stones are found all over India, most of them in southern India. They often carry inscriptions displaying a variety of adornments, including [[bas relief]] panels, frieze, and figures on carved stone.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web<br /> |url=http://www.kamat.com/database/content/hero-stones/index.htm<br /> |title=Hero-stone Memorials of India<br /> |publisher=Kamat Potpourri <br /> |access-date=2007-03-15<br /> }}&lt;/ref&gt; Usually they are in the form of a stone monument and may have an inscription at the bottom with a narrative of the battle. According to the historian [[Upinder Singh]], the largest concentration of such memorial stones are found in [[Karnataka]]. About two thousand six hundred and fifty hero stones, the earliest dated to the 5th century have been discovered in Karnataka.&lt;ref name=&quot;singh&quot;&gt;Chapter “Memorializing death in stone”, Singh (2009), p48&lt;/ref&gt; The custom of erecting memorial stones dates back to the Iron Age (1000 BCE–600BCE) though a vast majority were erected between the 5th and 13th centuries AD.<br /> <br /> === Veriyattam ===<br /> Veriyattam refers to [[spirit possession]] of women, who took part in priestly functions. Under the influence of the god, women sang and danced, but also read the dim past, predicted the future, diagnosed diseases.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=History of the Tamils: from the earliest times to 600 A.D.|last=Iyengar|first=Srinivasa|publisher=Asian Educational Services|year=1929|pages=77}}&lt;/ref&gt; Twenty two poets of the Sangam age in as many as 40 poems portray Veriyatal. Velan is a reporter and prophet endowed with supernatural powers. Veriyatal had been performed by men as well as women.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=pzurjfF3AE4C&amp;q=Twenty+two+poets+of+the+Sangam+age+in+as+many+as&amp;pg=PA16|title=Music as History in TamilNadu|last=Venkatasubramanian|first=T.K.|publisher=Primus Books|year=2010|isbn=978-9380607061|pages=16}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Nadukkal ===<br /> Among the early Tamils the practice of erecting [[Hero stone|hero stones]] (''nadukkal'') had appeared, and it continued for quite a long time after the Sangam age, down to about 11th century.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Encyclopaedia Indica: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh: Volume 100|last=Shashi|first=S. S.|publisher=Anmol Publications|year=1996}}&lt;/ref&gt; It was customary for people who sought victory in war to worship these hero stones to bless them with victory.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Śaṅgam polity: the administration and social life of the Śaṅgam Tamils|last=Subramanium|first=N.|publisher=Ennes Publications|year=1980}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Theyyam ===<br /> [[Theyyam]] is a ritual shaman dance popular in [[Kerala]] and parts of [[Karnataka]]. Theyyam migrates into the artist who has assumed the spirit and it is a belief that the god or goddess comes in the midst of fathering through the medium of possessed dancer. The dancer throws rice on the audience and distributes turmeric powder as symbols of blessing. Theyyam incorporates dance, mime and music and enshrines the rudiments of ancient tribal cultures which attached great importance to the worship of heroes and the spirits of ancestors, is a socio-religious ceremony. There are over 400 Theyyams performed, the most spectacular ones are those of Raktha Chamundi, Kari Chamundi, Muchilottu Bhagavathi, Wayanadu Kulaven, Gulikan and Pottan. These are performed in front of shrines, sans stage or curtains.<br /> <br /> The early character of Tamil religion was celebrative. It embodied an aura of sacral immanence, sensing the sacred in the vegetation, fertility, and color of the land. The summum bonum of the religious experience was expressed in terms of possession by the god, or ecstasy. Into this milieu there immigrated a sobering influence—a growing number of Jain and Buddhist communities and an increasing influx of northerners.<br /> <br /> The layout of villages can be assumed to be standard across most villages. An Amman (mother goddess) is at the centre of the villages while a male [[Village deities of Tamil Nadu|guardian deity]] ({{indic|lang=ta|indic=காவல் கடவுள்|trans=kāval kaṭavuḷ}}) has a shrine at the village borders. Nowadays, Amman can be either worshipped alone or as a part of the Vedic pantheon.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Part 14|last=Hastings|first=James|publisher=Kessinger Publishing|year=2003}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Folk dance rituals==<br /> <br /> *There are multiple [[Folk arts of Karnataka|folk dance rituals]] in Karnataka used for the worship of ''gramadevata''. One of these from Tulu areas is [[Yakshagana]], literally meansing the song (''gana'') of the ''yaksha'', (''[[exotic tribes of ancient India|nature spirits]]'').&lt;ref name=&quot;eb&quot;&gt;{{cite web | url=http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9077732/yaksha| title=yaksha|publisher=Encyclopædia Britannica| access-date=2007-09-06}}&lt;/ref&gt; Yakshagana is the scholastic name (used for the last 200 years) for art forms formerly known as ''kēḷike, āṭa, [[Bayalaata|bayalāṭa]],'' and ''daśāvatāra'' ({{lang-kn|ದಶಾವತಾರ}}). From the Old Mysore region comes [[Folk arts of Karnataka#Somana Kunita|Somana Kunitha]].<br /> *[[Koothu]] ({{lang-ta|கூத்து}}), and alternatively spelt as ''kuttu'', means dance or performance in [[Tamil language|Tamil]], it is a folk art originated from the early [[Tamil country]].&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.discovertamilnadu.net/tamilnadu%20dances.html Dance forms of Tamilnadu&lt;!-- Bot generated title --&gt;] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150814040440/http://discovertamilnadu.net/tamilnadu%20dances.html |date=2015-08-14}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://tamilnadu.com/arts/therukoothu.html Tamilnadu.com] {{webarchive |url=https://archive.is/20130411213929/http://tamilnadu.com/arts/therukoothu.html |date=April 11, 2013}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> * [[Buta Kola]]<br /> * [[Dravidian languages]]<br /> * [[Folk religion]]<br /> * [[Gramadevata]]<br /> * [[History of Hinduism]]<br /> * [[Indian religions]]<br /> * [[Religion in ancient Tamil country]]<br /> * [[Shinto]]<br /> * [[Substratum in Vedic Sanskrit]]<br /> * [[Theyyam]]<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{Hinduism}}<br /> {{reflist|group=note}}<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Dravidian studies]]<br /> [[Category:Indian religions]]<br /> [[Category:Asian ethnic religion]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetic_history_of_East_Asians&diff=999422767 Genetic history of East Asians 2021-01-10T02:29:13Z <p>Ilber8000: Minor clean up</p> <hr /> <div>{{short description|Genetic history of East Asian peoples}}<br /> {{pp-pc|small=yes}}<br /> [[File:Y-DNA haplogroup migration map in East Asia.png|thumb|300px|right|Y-DNA haplogroup (paternal lineages) migration in East Asia.]]<br /> The article '''genetic history of East Asians''' explains the genetic makeup of the [[East Asians|East Asian peoples]].<br /> <br /> == Xiongnu people (ancient) ==<br /> The [[Xiongnu]], possibly a [[Turkic peoples|Turkic]], [[Iranian peoples|Iranian]], [[Mongolic languages|Mongolic]], [[Yenisseian]] or multi-ethnic people, were a [[confederation]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://global.britannica.com/topic/Xiongnu|title=Xiongnu People|website=britannica.com|publisher=Encyclopædia Britannica|access-date=25 July 2015}}&lt;/ref&gt; of [[Nomads|nomadic peoples]] who, according to ancient [[Chinese historiography|Chinese sources]], inhabited the eastern [[Asian Steppe]] from the 3rd century BC to the late 1st century AD. [[Twenty-Four Histories|Chinese sources]] report that [[Modu Chanyu]], the supreme leader after 209&amp;nbsp;BC, founded the Xiongnu Empire.&lt;ref&gt;di Cosmo 2004: 186&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A majority (89%) of the Xiongnu sequences can be classified as belonging to Asian [[haplogroup]]s, and nearly 11% belong to European haplogroups.&lt;ref name=&quot;Keyser-Tracqui_et_al&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Keyser-Tracqui C, Crubézy E, Ludes B | title = Nuclear and mitochondrial DNA analysis of a 2,000-year-old necropolis in the Egyin Gol Valley of Mongolia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 73 | issue = 2 | pages = 247–60 | date = August 2003 | pmid = 12858290 | pmc = 1180365 | doi = 10.1086/377005 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> Over the past decade, Chinese archaeologists have published several reviews regarding the results of excavations in Xinjiang. They imply the genetic composition of Xiongnu's supreme ruling class. Particularly interesting are the tombs in the cemetery at Heigouliang, Xinjiang (the Black Gouliang cemetery, also known as the summer palace of the Xiongnu king), east of the Barkol basin, near the city of [[Hami City|Hami]]. By typing results of DNA samples during the excavation of one of the tombs, it was determined that of the 12 men: 6 Q1a* (not Q1a1-M120, not Q1a1b-M25, not Q1a2-M3), 4 Q1b-M378, 2 Q* (not Q1a, not Q1b: unable to determine subclades):&lt;ref&gt;Lihongjie, Y-Chromosome Genetic Diversity of the Ancient North Chinese populations, Jilin University-China (2012)&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In a paper (Lihongjie 2012), the author analyzed the Y-DNAs of the ancient male samples from the 2nd or 1st century BCE cemetery at [[Heigouliang]] in Xinjiang – which is also believed to be the site of a summer palace for Xiongnu kings – which is east of the Barkol basin and near the city of Hami. The Y-DNA of 12 men excavated from the site belonged to Q-MEH2 (Q1a) or Q-M378 (Q1b). The Q-M378 men among them were regarded as hosts of the tombs; half of the Q-MEH2 men appeared to be hosts and the other half as sacrificial victims.<br /> <br /> == Xianbei people (ancient) ==<br /> The origins of the [[Xianbei]] are unclear. Chinese anthropologist Zhu Hong and Zhang Quanchao studied Xianbei crania from several sites of Inner Mongolia and noticed that anthropological features of studied Xianbei crania show that the racial type is closely related to the modern East-Asian Mongoloids, and some physical characteristics of those skulls are closer to modern [[Mongols]], [[Manchu people|Manchu]] and [[Han Chinese]].&lt;ref&gt;Anthropology of Archaeological Populations from East- and Central-Asia*[http://user.dankook.ac.kr/~oriental/Journal/pdf_new/49/11.pdf] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130729140858/http://user.dankook.ac.kr/~oriental/Journal/pdf_new/49/11.pdf |date=2013-07-29 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Maternal lineages ===<br /> <br /> Genetic studies published in 2006 and 2015 revealed that the [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|mitochondrial haplogroups]] of Xianbei remains were of [[East Asian]] origin. According to Zhou (2006) the haplogroup frequencies of the Tuoba Xianbei were 43.75% [[Haplogroup D (mtDNA)|haplogroup D]], 31.25% [[Haplogroup C (mtDNA)|haplogroup C]], 12.5% [[Haplogroup B (mtDNA)|haplogroup B]], 6.25% [[Haplogroup A (mtDNA)|haplogroup A]] and 6.25% &quot;other.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Changchun Y, Li X, Xiaolei Z, Hui Z, Hong Z | title = Genetic analysis on Tuoba Xianbei remains excavated from Qilang Mountain Cemetery in Qahar Right Wing Middle Banner of Inner Mongolia | journal = FEBS Letters | volume = 580 | issue = 26 | pages = 6242–6 | date = November 2006 | pmid = 17070809 | doi = 10.1016/j.febslet.2006.10.030 | s2cid = 19492267 | ref = Zhou2006 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Zhou (2014) obtained [[mitochondrial DNA]] analysis from 17 Tuoba Xianbei, which indicated that these specimens were, similarly, completely East Asian in their maternal origins, belonging to haplogroups D, C, B, A and [[Haplogroup G (mtDNA)|haplogroup G]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhou H |title=Genetic analyses of Xianbei populations about 1,500–1,800 years old |journal=Human Genetics |date=March 2014 |volume=50 |issue=3 |pages=308–314 |ref=Zhou2014|doi=10.1134/S1022795414030119 |s2cid=18809679 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The research also found a relation between Xianbei individuals with modern [[Oroqen people|Oroqen]], [[Evenks|Ewenki]] and [[Outer Mongolia]]n people. Especially [[Tungusic peoples|Tungusic]] Oroqen show close relation to Xianbei.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Changchun Y, Li X, Xiaolei Z, Hui Z, Hong Z | title = Genetic analysis on Tuoba Xianbei remains excavated from Qilang Mountain Cemetery in Qahar Right Wing Middle Banner of Inner Mongolia | journal = FEBS Letters | volume = 580 | issue = 26 | pages = 6242–6 | date = November 2006 | pmid = 17070809 | doi = 10.1016/j.febslet.2006.10.030 | s2cid = 19492267 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Han Chinese==<br /> A 2018 study calculated pairwise F&lt;sub&gt;ST&lt;/sub&gt; (a measure of genetic difference) based on genome-wide SNPs, among the Han Chinese (Northern Han from Beijing and Southern Han from Hunan and Fujian provinces), Japanese and Korean populations sampled. It found that the smallest F&lt;sub&gt;ST&lt;/sub&gt; value was between North Han Chinese (CHB) and South Han Chinese (CHS) (F&lt;sub&gt;ST[CHB-CHS]&lt;/sub&gt; = 0.0014), while CHB and Korean (KOR) (F&lt;sub&gt;ST[CHB-KOR]&lt;/sub&gt; = 0.0026) and between KOR and Japanese (JPT) (F&lt;sub&gt;ST[JPT-KOR]&lt;/sub&gt; = 0.0033). Generally, pairwise F&lt;sub&gt;ST&lt;/sub&gt; between Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean (0.0026~ 0.0090) are greater than that within Han Chinese (0.0014). These results suggested Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean are different in terms of genetic make-up, and the difference among the three groups are much larger than that between northern and southern Han Chinese.&lt;ref name = &quot;Wang_2018&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wang Y, Lu D, Chung YJ, Xu S | title = Genetic structure, divergence and admixture of Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean populations | journal = Hereditas | volume = 155 | issue = 1 | pages = 19 | date = 2018-04-06 | pmid = 29636655 | pmc = 5889524 | doi = 10.1186/s41065-018-0057-5 | lay-url = tp://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-biology/2018/04/10/common-ancestor-of-han-chinese-japanese-and-koreans-dated-to-3000-3600-years-ago/ | lay-source = blogs.biomedcentral.com }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Another study shows that the northern and southern Han Chinese are genetically closest to each other and it finds that the genetic characteristics of present-day northern Han Chinese was already formed as early as three-thousand years ago in the [[Zhongyuan|Central Plain area]].&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Zhao YB, Zhang Y, Zhang QC, Li HJ, Cui YQ, Xu Z, Jin L, Zhou H, Zhu H|date=2015|title=Ancient DNA reveals that the genetic structure of the northern Han Chinese was shaped prior to 3,000 years ago|journal=PLOS ONE|volume=10|issue=5|pages=e0125676|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0125676|pmc=4418768|pmid=25938511|bibcode=2015PLoSO..1025676Z}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A recent genetic study on the remains of people (~4000 years BP) from the Mogou site in the [[Gansu]]-[[Qinghai]] (or Ganqing) region of China revealed more information on the genetic contributions of these ancient [[Qiang (historical people)|Di-Qiang]] people to the [[Huaxia|ancestors]] of the Northern Han. It was deduced that 3300–3800 years ago some Mogou people had merged into the ancestral Han population, resulting in the Mogou people being similar to some northern Han in sharing up to ~33% paternal (O3a) and ~70% maternal (D, A, F, M10) haplogroups. The mixture rate was possibly 13-18%.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Li J, Zeng W, Zhang Y, Ko AM, Li C, Zhu H, Fu Q, Zhou H|date=December 2017|title=Ancient DNA reveals genetic connections between early Di-Qiang and Han Chinese|journal=BMC Evolutionary Biology|volume=17|issue=1|pages=239|doi=10.1186/s12862-017-1082-0|pmc=5716020|pmid=29202706}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The estimated contribution of northern Han to southern Han is substantial in both paternal and maternal lineages and a geographic [[cline (biology)|cline]] exists for mtDNA. As a result, the northern Han are the primary contributors to the gene pool of the southern Han. However, it is noteworthy that the expansion process was dominated by males, as is shown by a greater contribution to the Y-chromosome than the mtDNA from northern Han to southern Han. These genetic observations are in line with historical records of continuous and large migratory waves of northern China inhabitants escaping warfare and famine, to southern China. Aside from these large migratory waves, other smaller southward migrations occurred during almost all periods in the past two millennia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot; /&gt; A study by the Chinese Academy of Sciences into the gene frequency data of Han subpopulations and ethnic minorities in China, showed that Han subpopulations in different regions are also genetically quite close to the local ethnic minorities, meaning that in many cases, blood of ethnic minorities had mixed into Han, while at the same time, the blood of Han had also mixed into the local ethnic minorities.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Du R, Xiao C, Cavalli-Sforza LL|date=December 1997|title=Genetic distances between Chinese populations calculated on gene frequencies of 38 loci|journal=Science in China Series C: Life Sciences|volume=40|issue=6|pages=613–21|doi=10.1007/BF02882691|pmid=18726285|s2cid=1924085}}&lt;/ref&gt; A study on Armenian admixture in varied populations found 3.9% Armenian-like DNA in some northern Chinese Han.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com/|title=World ancestry|website=admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com|access-date=2016-02-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A recent, and to date the most extensive, genome-wide association study of the Han population, shows that geographic-genetic stratification from north to south has occurred and centrally placed populations act as the conduit for outlying ones.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|display-authors=9|vauthors=Chen J, Zheng H, Bei JX, Sun L, Jia WH, Li T, Zhang F, Seielstad M, Zeng YX, Zhang X, Liu J|date=December 2009|title=Genetic structure of the Han Chinese population revealed by genome-wide SNP variation|journal=American Journal of Human Genetics|volume=85|issue=6|pages=775–85|doi=10.1016/j.ajhg.2009.10.016|pmc=2790583|pmid=19944401}}&lt;/ref&gt; Ultimately, with the exception in some [[Ethnolinguistics|ethnolinguistic]] branches of the Han Chinese, such as [[Pinghua]], there is &quot;coherent genetic structure&quot; (homogeneity)&lt;!-- &quot;coherent genetic structure&quot; doesn't seem to have a standard, formal definition--&gt; in all Han Chinese.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Gan RJ, Pan SL, Mustavich LF, Qin ZD, Cai XY, Qian J, Liu CW, Peng JH, Li SL, Xu JS, Jin L, Li H|year=2008|title=Pinghua population as an exception of Han Chinese's coherent genetic structure|journal=Journal of Human Genetics|volume=53|issue=4|pages=303–13|doi=10.1007/s10038-008-0250-x|pmid=18270655|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> While [[Northern Vietnam]] [[Kinh]] people assimilated Han Chinese immigrants into their population, have a [[sinicized]] culture and carry the [[patrilineal]] Han Chinese O-M7 [[haplogroup]], [[Cham people]] carry the patrilineal R-M17 haplogroup of [[South Asian]] Indian origin from South Asian merchants spreading Hinduism to Champa and marrying Cham females since Chams have no [[matrilineal]] South Asian [[mtdna]] and this fits with the [[matrilocal]] structure of Cham families.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = He JD, Peng MS, Quang HH, Dang KP, Trieu AV, Wu SF, Jin JQ, Murphy RW, Yao YG, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = Patrilineal perspective on the Austronesian diffusion in Mainland Southeast Asia | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 7 | issue = 5 | pages = e36437 | date = May 7, 2012 | pmid = 22586471 | pmc = 3346718 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0036437 | veditors = Kayser M | bibcode = 2012PLoSO...736437H }}&lt;/ref&gt; Analysis of Vietnamese Kinh people's genetics show that within the last 800 years there was mixture between a [[Malays (ethnic group)|Malay]] like southern Asian and a Chinese ancestral component that happens to fit the time period in which Kinh expanded south from their [[Red river delta]] homeland in [[Nam tiến]] which also matches the event 700 years ago when the Cham population suffered massive losses. Japanese and Middle Eastern merchants as well as other foreigners have travelled to the coast of Vietnam for more than 2,000 years and left genetic traces among Vietnamese due to its location on the Silk Roads and commercial paths. Vietnamese ethnicities descend from groups that migrated to SEA islands and the SEA mainland from the region in China south of the river Yangtze.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Pischedda S, Barral-Arca R, Gómez-Carballa A, Pardo-Seco J, Catelli ML, Álvarez-Iglesias V, Cárdenas JM, Nguyen ND, Ha HH, Le AT, Martinón-Torres F, Vullo C, Salas A | display-authors = 6 | title = Phylogeographic and genome-wide investigations of Vietnam ethnic groups reveal signatures of complex historical demographic movements | journal = Scientific Reports | volume = 7 | issue = 1 | pages = 12630 | date = October 2017 | pmid = 28974757 | pmc = 5626762 | doi = 10.1038/s41598-017-12813-6 | bibcode = 2017NatSR...712630P | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; With the exception of Cham who are Austronesian speaking and Mang who are Austroasiatic speaking, the southern Han Chinese and all other ethnic groups in Vietnam share ancestry.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Liu D, Duong NT, Ton ND, Van Phong N, Pakendorf B, Van Hai N, Stoneking M | title = Extensive ethnolinguistic diversity in Vietnam reflects multiple sources of genetic diversity | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | date = April 2020 | volume = 37 | issue = 9 | pages = 2503–2519 | pmid = 32344428 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msaa099 | pmc = 7475039 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> Y-chromosome [[haplogroup O-M122|haplogroup O2-M122]] is a common DNA marker in Han Chinese, as it appeared in China in prehistoric times. It is found in more than 50% of Chinese males, and ranging up to over 80% in certain regional subgroups of the Han ethnicity.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hurles2005&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hurles ME, Sykes BC, Jobling MA, Forster P | title = The dual origin of the Malagasy in Island Southeast Asia and East Africa: evidence from maternal and paternal lineages | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 76 | issue = 5 | pages = 894–901 | date = May 2005 | pmid = 15793703 | pmc = 1199379 | doi = 10.1086/430051 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Other Y-DNA haplogroups that have been found with notable frequency in samples of Han Chinese include [[haplogroup O-M119#O-P203|O-P203]] (15/165 = 9.1%, 47/361 = 13.0%), [[haplogroup C-M217|C-M217]] (10/168 = 6.0%, 27/361 = 7.5%, 187/1730 = 10.8%, 20/166 = 12.0%), [[haplogroup N-M231|N-M231]] (6/166 = 3.6%, 18/361 = 5.0%, 117/1729 = 6.8%, 17/165 = 10.3%), [[haplogroup O-P31|O-M268(xM95, M176)]] (54/1147 = 4.7%,&lt;ref name = &quot;Lu2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Lu C, Zhang J, Li Y, Xia Y, Zhang F, Wu B, Wu W, Ji G, Gu A, Wang S, Jin L, Wang X | title = The b2/b3 subdeletion shows higher risk of spermatogenic failure and higher frequency of complete AZFc deletion than the gr/gr subdeletion in a Chinese population | journal = Human Molecular Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 6 | pages = 1122–30 | date = March 2009 | pmid = 19088127 | doi = 10.1093/hmg/ddn427 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; 8/168 = 4.8%, 23/361 = 6.4%, 12/166 = 7.2%), and [[haplogroup Q-M242|Q-M242]] (2/168 = 1.2%, 49/1729 = 2.8%, 12/361 = 3.3%, 48/1147 = 4.2%&lt;ref name = &quot;Lu2009&quot; /&gt;). However, the [[mitochondrial DNA]] (mtDNA) of Han Chinese increases in diversity as one looks from northern to southern China, which suggests that male migrants from northern China married with women from local peoples after arriving in modern-day Guangdong, Fujian, and other regions of southern China.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wen B, Li H, Lu D, Song X, Zhang F, He Y, Li F, Gao Y, Mao X, Zhang L, Qian J, Tan J, Jin J, Huang W, Deka R, Su B, Chakraborty R, Jin L | title = Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han culture | journal = Nature | volume = 431 | issue = 7006 | pages = 302–5 | date = September 2004 | pmid = 15372031 | doi = 10.1038/nature02878 | bibcode = 2004Natur.431..302W | s2cid = 4301581 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;EJH&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Xue F, Wang Y, Xu S, Zhang F, Wen B, Wu X, Lu M, Deka R, Qian J, Jin L | title = A spatial analysis of genetic structure of human populations in China reveals distinct difference between maternal and paternal lineages | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 16 | issue = 6 | pages = 705–17 | date = June 2008 | pmid = 18212820 | doi = 10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201998 | display-authors = 9 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; Despite this, tests comparing the genetic profiles of northern Han, southern Han and southern natives determined that haplogroups O1b-M110, O2a1-M88 and O3d-M7, which are prevalent in southern natives, were only observed in some southern Han (4% on average), but not in northern Han. Therefore, this proves&lt;!--suggests???--&gt; that the male contribution of southern natives in southern Han is limited, assuming that the frequency distribution of Y lineages in southern natives represents that before the expansion of Han culture that started two-thousand years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;gene&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wen B, Li H, Lu D, Song X, Zhang F, He Y, Li F, Gao Y, Mao X, Zhang L, Qian J, Tan J, Jin J, Huang W, Deka R, Su B, Chakraborty R, Jin L | title = Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han culture | journal = Nature | volume = 431 | issue = 7006 | pages = 302–5 | date = September 2004 | pmid = 15372031 | doi = 10.1038/nature02878 | bibcode = 2004Natur.431..302W | s2cid = 4301581 | display-authors = 9 }}&lt;/ref&gt; In contrast, there are consistent strong genetic similarities in the Y chromosome haplogroup distribution between the southern and northern Chinese population, and the result of [[principal component analysis]] indicates almost all Han populations form a tight cluster in their Y chromosome. However, other research has also shown that the paternal lineages Y-DNA O-M119,&lt;ref name=&quot;Li et al (2008)&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Li H, Wen B, Chen SJ, Su B, Pramoonjago P, Liu Y, Pan S, Qin Z, Liu W, Cheng X, Yang N, Li X, Tran D, Lu D, Hsu MT, Deka R, Marzuki S, Tan CC, Jin L | title = Paternal genetic affinity between Western Austronesians and Daic populations | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 8 | issue = 1 | pages = 146 | date = May 2008 | pmid = 18482451 | pmc = 2408594 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2148-8-146 }}&lt;/ref&gt; O-P201,&lt;ref name=&quot;Karafet et al (2010)&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Karafet TM, Hallmark B, Cox MP, Sudoyo H, Downey S, Lansing JS, Hammer MF | title = Major east-west division underlies Y chromosome stratification across Indonesia | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 27 | issue = 8 | pages = 1833–44 | date = August 2010 | pmid = 20207712 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq063 }}&lt;/ref&gt; O-P203&lt;ref name=&quot;Karafet et al (2010)&quot;/&gt; and O-M95&lt;ref name=&quot;Karafet et al 2005&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Edén CS, Hagberg L, Hanson LA, Korhonen T, Leffler H, Olling S | title = Adhesion of Escherichia coli in urinary tract infection | journal = Ciba Foundation Symposium | volume = 80 | pages = 161–87 | year = 2008 | pmid = 6114819 | doi = 10.1002/9780470720639.ch11 | isbn = 9780470720639 | series = Novartis Foundation Symposia }}&lt;/ref&gt; are found in both southern Han Chinese and South Chinese minorities, but more commonly in the latter. In fact, these paternal markers are in turn less frequent in northern Han Chinese.&lt;ref name=&quot;Han Chinese Y-DNA by region&quot;&gt;{{cite web|last1=Wang|first1=Xiadong | name-list-style = vanc |title=Han Chinese dialect area by the distribution of the Y chromosome|url=http://blog.ifeng.com/article/31381043.html|website=Blog.ifeng.com|publisher=Wang Xiadong|access-date=10 June 2014|url-status=dead|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140714221614/http://blog.ifeng.com/article/31381043.html|archive-date=14 July 2014}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Yan et al (2011)&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yan S, Wang CC, Li H, Li SL, Jin L | title = An updated tree of Y-chromosome Haplogroup O and revised phylogenetic positions of mutations P164 and PK4 | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 19 | issue = 9 | pages = 1013–5 | date = September 2011 | pmid = 21505448 | pmc = 3179364 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2011.64 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Maternal lineages ===<br /> The mitochondrial-DNA haplogroups of the Han Chinese can be classified into the northern East Asian-dominating haplogroups, including A, C, D, G, M8, M9, and Z, and the southern East Asian-dominating haplogroups, including B, F, M7, N*, and R.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot; /&gt; These haplogroups account for 52.7% and 33.85% of those in the Northern Han, respectively. Among these haplogroups, D, B, F, and A were predominant in the Northern Han, with frequencies of 25.77%, 11.54%, 11.54%, and 8.08%, respectively. However, in the Southern Han, the northern and southern East Asian-dominating haplogroups accounted for 35.62% and 51.91%, respectively. The frequencies of haplogroups D, B, F, and A reached 15.68%, 20.85%, 16.29%, and 5.63%, respectively.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yao YG, Kong QP, Bandelt HJ, Kivisild T, Zhang YP | title = Phylogeographic differentiation of mitochondrial DNA in Han Chinese | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 3 | pages = 635–51 | date = March 2002 | pmid = 11836649 | pmc = 384943 | doi = 10.1086/338999 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Tolk HV, Parik J, Wang Y, Papiha SS, Bandelt HJ, Villems R | title = The emerging limbs and twigs of the East Asian mtDNA tree | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 19 | issue = 10 | pages = 1737–51 | date = October 2002 | pmid = 12270900 | doi = 10.1093/oxfordjournals.molbev.a003996 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yao YG, Kong QP, Man XY, Bandelt HJ, Zhang YP | title = Reconstructing the evolutionary history of China: a caveat about inferences drawn from ancient DNA | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 20 | issue = 2 | pages = 214–9 | date = February 2003 | pmid = 12598688 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msg026 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kong QP, Sun C, Wang HW, Zhao M, Wang WZ, Zhong L, Hao XD, Pan H, Wang SY, Cheng YT, Zhu CL, Wu SF, Liu LN, Jin JQ, Yao YG, Zhang YP | title = Large-scale mtDNA screening reveals a surprising matrilineal complexity in east Asia and its implications to the peopling of the region | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 28 | issue = 1 | pages = 513–22 | date = January 2011 | pmid = 20713468 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq219 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Manchus and Daurs==<br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> [[Haplogroup C-M217|Haplogroup C3b2b1*-M401(xF5483)]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wei LH, Yan S, Yu G, Huang YZ, Yao DL, Li SL, Jin L, Li H | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic trail for the early migrations of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 62 | issue = 3 | pages = 407–411 | date = March 2017 | pmid = 27853133 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2016.142 | s2cid = 7685248 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yan S, Tachibana H, Wei LH, Yu G, Wen SQ, Wang CC | title = Y chromosome of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 60 | issue = 6 | pages = 295–8 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25833470 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2015.28 | arxiv = 1412.6274 | s2cid = 7505563 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;DidYouKnowDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite web |title=Did you know DNA was used to uncover the origin of the House of Aisin Gioro? |url=https://www.didyouknowdna.com/famous-dna/aisin-gioro-dna/ |website=Did You Know DNA...|access-date=5 November 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt; has been identified as a possible marker of the Aisin Gioro and is found in ten different ethnic minorities in northern China, but completely absent from Han Chinese.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Xue Y, Zerjal T, Bao W, Zhu S, Lim SK, Shu Q, Xu J, Du R, Fu S, Li P, Yang H, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = Recent spread of a Y-chromosomal lineage in northern China and Mongolia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 77 | issue = 6 | pages = 1112–6 | date = December 2005 | pmid = 16380921 | pmc = 1285168 | doi = 10.1086/498583 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.genebase.com/learning/article/23 |title=Asian Ancestry based on Studies of Y-DNA Variation: Part 3. Recent demographics and ancestry of the male East Asians – Empires and Dynasties |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131125053101/http://www.genebase.com/learning/article/23 |archive-date=November 25, 2013 |work=Genebase Tutorials }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;DidYouKnowDNA&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Genetic testing also showed that the haplogroup C3b1a3a2-F8951 of the Aisin Gioro family came to southeastern Manchuria after migrating from their place of origin in the Amur river's middle reaches, originating from ancestors related to [[Daur people|Daur]]s in the [[Transbaikal]] area. The [[Tungusic languages|Tungusic]] speaking peoples mostly have C3c-M48 as their subclade of C3 which drastically differs from the C3b1a3a2-F8951 haplogroup of the Aisin Gioro which originates from Mongolic speaking populations like the Daur. Jurchen (Manchus) are a Tungusic people. The Mongol Genghis Khan's haplogroup C3b1a3a1-F3796 (C3*-Star Cluster) is a fraternal &quot;brother&quot; branch of C3b1a3a2-F8951 haplogroup of the Aisin Gioro.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wei LH, Yan S, Yu G, Huang YZ, Yao DL, Li SL, Jin L, Li H | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic trail for the early migrations of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 62 | issue = 3 | pages = 407–411 | date = March 2017 | pmid = 27853133 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2016.142 | url = https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310477623 | publisher = The Japan Society of Human Genetics | s2cid = 7685248 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A genetic test was conducted on seven men who claimed Aisin Gioro descent with three of them showing documented genealogical information of all their ancestors up to Nurhaci. Three of them turned out to share the C3b2b1*-M401(xF5483) haplogroup, out of them, two of them were the ones who provided their documented family trees. The other four tested were unrelated.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yan S, Tachibana H, Wei LH, Yu G, Wen SQ, Wang CC | title = Y chromosome of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 60 | issue = 6 | pages = 295–8 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25833470 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2015.28 | url = https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269876995 | publisher = Nature Publishing Group on behalf of the Japan Society of Human Genetics (Japan) | arxiv = 1412.6274 | s2cid = 7505563 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The Daur Ao clan carries the unique haplogroup subclade C2b1a3a2-F8951, the same haplogroup as Aisin Gioro and both Ao and Aisin Gioro only diverged merely a couple of centuries ago from a shared common ancestor. Other members of the Ao clan carry haplogroups like N1c-M178, C2a1b-F845, C2b1a3a1-F3796 and C2b1a2-M48. People from northeast China, the Daur Ao clan and Aisin Gioro clan are the main carriers of haplogroup C2b1a3a2-F8951. The Mongolic C2*-Star Cluster (C2b1a3a1-F3796) haplogroup is a fraternal branch to Aisin Gioro's C2b1a3a2-F8951 haplogroup.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wang CZ, Wei LH, Wang LX, Wen SQ, Yu XE, Shi MS, Li H | title = Relating Clans Ao and Aisin Gioro from northeast China by whole Y-chromosome sequencing | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 64 | issue = 8 | pages = 775–780 | date = August 2019 | pmid = 31148597 | doi = 10.1038/s10038-019-0622-4 | publisher = Japan Society of Human Genetics | s2cid = 171094135 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Japanese==<br /> {{main|Genetic and anthropometric studies on Japanese people}}<br /> <br /> === Jōmon people ===<br /> {{Main|Jōmon people}}<br /> Jōmon people is the generic name of people who lived in the [[Japanese archipelago]] during the [[Jōmon period]]. Today most Japanese historians believe that the Jomon people were not one homogeneous people but were at least two or three distinct groups.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Miura | last1 = Sukeyuki | first2 = Shinoda | last2 = Kenichi | name-list-style = vanc | title = The Origins of Japanese Culture Uncovered Using DNA ― What happens when we cut into the world of the Kojiki myths using the latest science | url= https://sp.japanpolicyforum.jp/archives/culture/pt20160603213440.html |date=2016-06-03|website=Discuss Japan-Japan Foreign Policy Forum|access-date=2019-01-21 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Recent full genome analyses in 2020 by Boer et al. 2020 and Yang et al. 2020, reveals some further information regarding the origin of the Jōmon peoples. They were found to have largely formed from a Paleolithic Siberian population and an East Asian related population.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yang|first=Melinda A.|last2=Fan|first2=Xuechun|last3=Sun|first3=Bo|last4=Chen|first4=Chungyu|last5=Lang|first5=Jianfeng|last6=Ko|first6=Ying-Chin|last7=Tsang|first7=Cheng-hwa|last8=Chiu|first8=Hunglin|last9=Wang|first9=Tianyi|last10=Bao|first10=Qingchuan|last11=Wu|first11=Xiaohong|date=2020-07-17|title=Ancient DNA indicates human population shifts and admixture in northern and southern China|url=https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6501/282|journal=Science|language=en|volume=369|issue=6501|pages=282–288|doi=10.1126/science.aba0909|issn=0036-8075|pmid=32409524}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Boer|first=Elisabeth de|last2=Yang|first2=Melinda A.|last3=Kawagoe|first3=Aileen|last4=Barnes|first4=Gina L.|date=2020/ed|title=Japan considered from the hypothesis of farmer/language spread|url=https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/evolutionary-human-sciences/article/japan-considered-from-the-hypothesis-of-farmerlanguage-spread/BD91E69AEA3CCAEDC567519EF7F5AA97|journal=Evolutionary Human Sciences|language=en|volume=2|doi=10.1017/ehs.2020.7|issn=2513-843X|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Yayoi people ===<br /> {{See also|Yayoi people}}<br /> The [[Yayoi people]] were migrants to the [[Japanese archipelago]] from [[Asia]] ([[Korea]] or [[China]]) during the [[Yayoi period]] (1000 BCE&amp;ndash;300 CE) and [[Kofun period]] (250–538 CE). They are seen as direct ancestors of the modern [[Yamato people]], the majority of Japanese and of the [[Ryukyuan people]]. It is estimated that modern Japanese share in average about 90% of their genome with the Yayoi.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/555/|title='Jomon woman' helps solve Japan's genetic mystery {{!}} NHK WORLD-JAPAN News|website=NHK WORLD|language=en|access-date=2019-07-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Paternal lineages ====<br /> It is estimated that Yayoi people mainly belonged to [[Haplogroup O-M176|Haplogroup O-M176 (O1b2)]] (found in ~32% of present-day Japanese males), [[Haplogroup O-M122]] (O2, formerly O3, today ~20%), [[Haplogroup O-K18]] (O1b1, today ~1%), and [[Haplogroup O-M119]] (O1a, today ~1%), which are typical for East and Southeast Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Nonaka2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Nonaka I, Minaguchi K, Takezaki N | title = Y-chromosomal binary haplogroups in the Japanese population and their relationship to 16 Y-STR polymorphisms | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 71 | issue = Pt 4 | pages = 480–95 | date = July 2007 | pmid = 17274803 | doi = 10.1111/j.1469-1809.2006.00343.x | hdl-access = free | hdl = 10130/491 | s2cid = 1041367 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Srithawong S, Srikummool M, Pittayaporn P, Ghirotto S, Chantawannakul P, Sun J, Eisenberg A, Chakraborty R, Kutanan W | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic and linguistic correlation of the Kra-Dai-speaking groups in Thailand | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 60 | issue = 7 | pages = 371–80 | date = July 2015 | pmid = 25833471 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2015.32 | s2cid = 21509343 }}&lt;/ref&gt; [[:ja:崎谷満|Mitsuru Sakitani]] suggests that haplogroup O1b2, which is common in today's Japanese, Koreans, and some Manchu, and O1a are one of the carriers of Yangtze civilization. As the Yangtze civilization declined several tribes crossed westward and northerly, to the [[Shandong peninsula]], the [[Korean Peninsula]] and the Japanese archipelago.&lt;ref&gt;崎谷満『DNA・考古・言語の学際研究が示す新・日本列島史』(勉誠出版 2009年&lt;/ref&gt; One study calls haplogroup O1b1 as a major [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]] paternal lineage and the haplogroup O1b2 (of Koreans and Japanese) as a &quot;''para-Austroasiatic''&quot; paternal lineage.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=5Z5BDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=japonic+austroasiatic&amp;pg=PA207|title=Language Dispersal Beyond Farming|last1=Robbeets|first1=Martine|last2=Savelyev|first2=Alexander | name-list-style = vanc |date=2017-12-21|publisher=John Benjamins Publishing Company|isbn=9789027264640}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maternal lineages ====<br /> A recent study confirms that modern Japanese are predominantly descendants of the Yayoi. The mitochondrial chromosomes of modern Japanese are nearly identical with the Yayoi and differ significantly from the Jomon population (see below).&lt;ref name=&quot;Nara_2019&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Modern Japanese===<br /> <br /> ====Paternal lineages====<br /> The main paternal haplogroups of modern Yamato Japanese are [[Haplogroup D-M55]] (today ~33%, with the frequency in various samples ranging from 18/70 = 25.7% in a sample from [[Tokushima Prefecture]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hammer MF, Karafet TM, Park H, Omoto K, Harihara S, Stoneking M, Horai S | title = Dual origins of the Japanese: common ground for hunter-gatherer and farmer Y chromosomes | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 51 | issue = 1 | pages = 47–58 | year = 2006 | pmid = 16328082 | doi = 10.1007/s10038-005-0322-0 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; to 24/59 = 40.7% in a sample of Japanese male volunteers&lt;ref name = &quot;Ochiai2016&quot; /&gt; and 11/27 = 40.7% in a sample from [[Aomori Prefecture]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer1995&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hammer MF, Horai S | title = Y chromosomal DNA variation and the peopling of Japan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 56 | issue = 4 | pages = 951–62 | date = April 1995 | pmid = 7717406 | pmc = 1801189 }}&lt;/ref&gt;), [[Haplogroup O-M176|Haplogroup O-M176 (O1b2)]] (today ~32%, range 37/142 = 26.1% in a sample of Japanese&lt;ref name = &quot;Hashiyada2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hashiyada M, Nata M, Nagashima T | year = 2004 | title = Y-SNPs analysis in Japanese using liquid bead array technology | journal = International Congress Series | volume = 1261 | pages = 79–81 | doi = 10.1016/S0531-5131(03)01527-9 }}&lt;/ref&gt; to 35/97 = 36.1% in a sample from Western Japan&lt;ref name=&quot;Nonaka2007&quot;/&gt;), [[Haplogroup O-M122]] (O2, formerly O3) (today ~20%, ranging from 4/59 = 6.8% in a sample of Japanese volunteers&lt;ref name = &quot;Ochiai2016&quot; /&gt; and 11/102 = 10.8% in a sample of adults from [[Fukuoka]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal| vauthors = Sato Y, Shinka T, Ewis AA, Yamauchi A, Iwamoto T, Nakahori Y |title=Overview of genetic variation in the Y chromosome of modern Japanese males|journal=Anthropological Science|volume=122|issue=3|year=2014|pages=131–136|issn=0918-7960|doi=10.1537/ase.140709|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt; to 38/157 = 24.2% in a sample of Japanese&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2011&quot; /&gt; and 14/53 = 26.4% in a sample from Kyushu&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt;), [[Haplogroup C-M217]] (C2, today ~6%, ranging from 0/26 = 0.0% in a sample from Aomori,&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt; 1/61 = 1.6% in a sample from Shizuoka,&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt; 1/47 = 2.1% in a sample of Japanese,&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot; /&gt; and 3/137 = 2.2% in a sample from the Kantō region&lt;ref name = &quot;Nonaka2007&quot; /&gt; to 15/206 = 7.3% in a sample from Sapporo,&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot; /&gt; 18/241 = 7.5% in a sample from Osaka,&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot; /&gt; 4/53 = 7.5% in a sample from Kyushu,&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt; and 8/102 = 7.8% in a sample from Fukuoka&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot; /&gt;), and [[Haplogroup C-M8]] (C1a1, today ~5%, ranging from 0/53 = 0.0% in a sample from Kyushu&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt; to 7/70 = 10.0% in a sample from [[Tokushima Prefecture|Tokushima]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt;).&lt;ref name=&quot;Nonaka2007&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer_1995&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hammer MF, Horai S | title = Y chromosomal DNA variation and the peopling of Japan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 56 | issue = 4 | pages = 951–62 | date = April 1995 | pmid = 7717406 | pmc = 1801189 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot; /&gt; Haplogroups [[haplogroup N-M231|N-M231]], [[haplogroup O-M119|O-M119]], [[haplogroup O-K18|O-K18]], and [[haplogroup Q-M242|Q-M242]] also have been observed with low frequency among present-day Japanese.<br /> <br /> A comprehensive study of worldwide Y-DNA diversity (Underhill ''et al.'' 2000) included a sample of 23 males from Japan, of whom eight (35%) belonged to haplogroup [[haplogroup D-M174|D-M174]], six (26%) belonged to [[haplogroup O-M175|O-M175]], five (22%) belonged to [[haplogroup O-M122|O-M122]], three (13%) belonged to [[Haplogroup C-M8|C-M8]] and [[Haplogroup C-M130|C-M130]], and one (4.3%) belonged to [[haplogroup N-M231|N-M128]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Underhill_2000&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Shen P, Lin AA, Jin L, Passarino G, Yang WH, Kauffman E, Bonné-Tamir B, Bertranpetit J, Francalacci P, Ibrahim M, Jenkins T, Kidd JR, Mehdi SQ, Seielstad MT, Wells RS, Piazza A, Davis RW, Feldman MW, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Oefner PJ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y chromosome sequence variation and the history of human populations | journal = Nature Genetics | volume = 26 | issue = 3 | pages = 358–61 | date = November 2000 | pmid = 11062480 | doi = 10.1038/81685 | s2cid = 12893406 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Among 259 males from Japan (70 from [[Tokushima Prefecture|Tokushima]], 61 from [[Shizuoka Prefecture|Shizuoka]], 53 from [[Kyūshū]], 45 from [[Okinawa Prefecture|Okinawa]], 26 from [[Aomori Prefecture|Aomori]], and 4 [[Ainu people|Ainus]]) whose Y-DNA has been examined in a 2005 study by Michael F. Hammer, ninety (34.7%) belong to [[haplogroup D-M55]], eighty-two (31.7%) belong to [[Haplogroup O2 (Y-DNA)|haplogroup O-P31]] (including 22% O-47z, 7.7% O-M176(x47z), and 1.9% [[haplogroup O-K18|O-M95(xM111)]]), fifty-two (20.1%) belong to [[Haplogroup O3 (Y-DNA)|haplogroup O-M122]], fourteen (5.4%) belong to [[haplogroup C-M8]], ten (3.9%) belong to [[Haplogroup NO (Y-DNA)|haplogroup NO-M214(xO-M175)]] (including 2.3% NO-M214(xO-M175, N-LLY22g), 1.2% [[haplogroup N (Y-DNA)|haplogroup N-LLY22g(xM128, P43, M178)]], and 0.4% [[Haplogroup N-M231#N1c1a .28M178.29|haplogroup N-M178]]), and eight (3.1%) belong to [[haplogroup C-M217]] (including 1.9% haplogroup C-M217(xM86) and 1.2% [[Haplogroup C-M48|haplogroup C-M86]]).&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> The patrilines belonging to D-P37.1 were found in all the Japanese samples, but were more frequently found in the Ainu (75.0%) and Okinawa (55.6%) samples and less frequently found in the [[Tokushima Prefecture|Tokushima]] (25.7%) and [[Kyūshū]] samples (26.4%).&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt; Haplogroups O-M175 and C-M8 were not found in the small Ainu sample of four individuals, and C-M217 was not found in the Okinawa sample of 45 individuals.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt; Haplogroup N was detected in samples of Japanese from Aomori (2/26 N-LLY22g(xM128, P43, M178)), Shizuoka (1/61 N-LLY22g(xM128, P43, M178)), and Tokushima (1/70 N-M178), but was not found in the Kyūshū, Okinawa, or Ainu samples.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt; This study, and others, report that Y-chromosome patrilines crossed from the Asian mainland into the Japanese archipelago, and continue to make up a large proportion of the Japanese male lineage.&lt;ref name=&quot;Travis_1997&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Travis J|date=February 1997|title=Jomon Genes: Using DNA, researchers probe the genetic origins of modern japanese.|journal=Science News|volume=151|issue=7|pages=106–7|doi=10.2307/3980542|jstor=3980542}}&lt;/ref&gt; If focusing haplogroup O-P31 in those researches, the patrilines derived from its [[subclade]] [[Haplogroup O2b (Y-DNA)|O-SRY465]] are frequently found in both Japanese (mean 32%,&lt;ref&gt;238/744 = 32.0% O2b-SRY465 in a pool of all Japanese samples of Xue ''et al.'' (2006), Katoh ''et al.'' (2004), Han-Jun Jin ''et al.'' (2009), Nonaka ''et al.'' (2007), and all non-Ainu and non-Okinawan Japanese samples of Hammer ''et al.'' (2006).&lt;/ref&gt; with frequency in various samples ranging from 26%&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Hammer MF, Nakahori Y, Shinka T, Lee JW, Jin F, Jia X, Tyler-Smith C, Kim W | title = Y-chromosomal DNA haplogroups and their implications for the dual origins of the Koreans | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 1 | pages = 27–35 | date = December 2003 | pmid = 14505036 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1019-0 | s2cid = 1396796 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Jin HJ, Tyler-Smith C, Kim W | title = The peopling of Korea revealed by analyses of mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal markers | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 4 | issue = 1 | pages = e4210 | year = 2009 | pmid = 19148289 | pmc = 2615218 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0004210 | bibcode = 2009PLoSO...4.4210J }} {{open access}}&lt;/ref&gt; to 36%&lt;ref name=&quot;Katoh_2005&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Katoh T, Munkhbat B, Tounai K, Mano S, Ando H, Oyungerel G, Chae GT, Han H, Jia GJ, Tokunaga K, Munkhtuvshin N, Tamiya G, Inoko H | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic features of Mongolian ethnic groups revealed by Y-chromosomal analysis | journal = Gene | volume = 346 | pages = 63–70 | date = February 2005 | pmid = 15716011 | doi = 10.1016/j.gene.2004.10.023 }}&lt;/ref&gt;) and Koreans (mean 30%,&lt;ref&gt;202/677 = 29.8% O2b-SRY465 in a pool of all ethnic Korean samples of Hammer ''et al.'' (2006), Xue ''et al.'' (2006), Katoh ''et al.'' (2004), Wook Kim ''et al.'' (2007), and Han-Jun Jin ''et al.'' (2009).&lt;/ref&gt; with frequency in various samples ranging from 19%&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kim2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kim W, Yoo TK, Kim SJ, Shin DJ, Tyler-Smith C, Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Kim ET, Bae YS | title = Lack of association between Y-chromosomal haplogroups and prostate cancer in the Korean population | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 2 | issue = 1 | pages = e172 | date = January 2007 | pmid = 17245448 | pmc = 1766463 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0000172 | bibcode = 2007PLoSO...2..172K }} {{open access}}&lt;/ref&gt; to 40%&lt;ref name=&quot;Katoh_2005&quot; /&gt;). According to the research, these patrilines have undergone extensive [[genetic admixture]] with the Jōmon period populations previously established in Japan.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2007 study by Nonaka ''et al.'' reported that among a total of 263 healthy unrelated Japanese male individuals born in 40 of the 47 [[prefectures of Japan]], but especially [[Tokyo Metropolis|Tokyo]] (''n''=51), [[Chiba Prefecture|Chiba]] (''n''=45), [[Kanagawa Prefecture|Kanagawa]] (''n''=14), [[Saitama Prefecture|Saitama]] (''n''=13), [[Shizuoka Prefecture|Shizuoka]] (''n''=12), and [[Nagano Prefecture|Nagano]] (''n''=11), the frequencies of the D2, O2b, and O3 lineages were 38.8%, 33.5%, and 16.7%, respectively, which constituted approximately 90% of the Japanese population. Haplogroup diversity for the binary polymorphisms was calculated to be 86.3%.&lt;ref name = &quot;Nonaka_2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Nonaka I, Minaguchi K, Takezaki N | title = Y-chromosomal binary haplogroups in the Japanese population and their relationship to 16 Y-STR polymorphisms | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 71 | issue = Pt 4 | pages = 480–95 | date = July 2007 | pmid = 17274803 | doi = 10.1111/j.1469-1809.2006.00343.x | hdl = 10130/491 | s2cid = 1041367 | hdl-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Poznik ''et al.'' (2016) have reported that the males in the JPT (Japanese in Tokyo, Japan) sample&lt;ref&gt;The JPT sample is considered &quot;as generally representative of the majority population in Japan&quot;. See {{cite web |last=Matsuda |first=Ichiro | name-list-style = vanc |title=Japanese in Tokyo, Japan – Population Description |location=Camden, [[New Jersey|NJ]] |publisher=Coriell Institute for Medical Research |url=https://catalog.coriell.org/0/Sections/Collections/NHGRI/Japanese.aspx?PgId=359 }}&lt;/ref&gt; of the [[1000 Genomes Project]] are 20/56 = 36% [[haplogroup D-M174|D2-M179]], 18/56 = 32% [[haplogroup O-M176|O2b-M176]], 10/56 = 18% [[haplogroup O-M122|O3-M122]], 4/56 = 7.1% [[Haplogroup C-F3393|C1a1-M8]], 2/56 = 3.6% [[haplogroup O-K18|O2a-K18]], and 2/56 = 3.6% [[haplogroup C-M217|C2-M217]].&lt;ref name = &quot;Poznik2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Poznik GD, Xue Y, Mendez FL, Willems TF, Massaia A, Wilson Sayres MA, Ayub Q, McCarthy SA, Narechania A, Kashin S, Chen Y, Banerjee R, Rodriguez-Flores JL, Cerezo M, Shao H, Gymrek M, Malhotra A, Louzada S, Desalle R, Ritchie GR, Cerveira E, Fitzgerald TW, Garrison E, Marcketta A, Mittelman D, Romanovitch M, Zhang C, Zheng-Bradley X, Abecasis GR, McCarroll SA, Flicek P, Underhill PA, Coin L, Zerbino DR, Yang F, Lee C, Clarke L, Auton A, Erlich Y, Handsaker RE, Bustamante CD, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = Punctuated bursts in human male demography inferred from 1,244 worldwide Y-chromosome sequences | journal = Nature Genetics | volume = 48 | issue = 6 | pages = 593–9 | date = June 2016 | pmid = 27111036 | pmc = 4884158 | doi = 10.1038/ng.3559 | hdl = 11858/00-001M-0000-002A-F024-C }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In a project approved by the Ethics Committee of [[Tokai University]] School of Medicine, Ochiai ''et al.'' (2016) have reported finding [[haplogroup D-M174|D-M174]] (rs2032602 T&gt;C) in 24/59 (40.7%), [[haplogroup O-P31|O-M268]] (rs13447443 A&gt;G) in 21/59 (35.6%), [[haplogroup C-M130|C-M130]] (rs35284970 C&gt;T) in 8/59 (13.6%), [[haplogroup O-M122|O-P198]] (rs17269816 T&gt;C) in 4/59 (6.8%), [[haplogroup N-M231|N-M231]] (rs9341278 G&gt;A) in 1/59 (1.7%), and [[haplogroup O-M175|O-P186]](xM268, P198) (rs16981290 C&gt;A, rs13447443 A, rs17269816 T) in 1/59 (1.7%) of a sample obtained through buccal swabs from Japanese male volunteers (''n'' = 59) who had given informed consent to participate in the study.&lt;ref name = &quot;Ochiai2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Ochiai E, Minaguchi K, Nambiar P, Kakimoto Y, Satoh F, Nakatome M, Miyashita K, Osawa M | title = Evaluation of Y chromosomal SNP haplogrouping in the HID-Ion AmpliSeq™ Identity Panel | journal = Legal Medicine | volume = 22 | pages = 58–61 | date = September 2016 | pmid = 27591541 | doi = 10.1016/j.legalmed.2016.08.001 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Maternal lineages====<br /> According to an analysis of the [[1000 Genomes Project]]'s sample of Japanese collected in the Tokyo metropolitan area, the mtDNA haplogroups found among modern Japanese include [[haplogroup D (mtDNA)|D]] (42/118 = 35.6%, including 39/118 = 33.1% D4 and 3/118 = 2.5% D5), [[haplogroup B (mtDNA)|B]] (16/118 = 13.6%, including 11/118 = 9.3% B4 and 5/118 = 4.2% B5), [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M7]] (12/118 = 10.2%), [[haplogroup G (mtDNA)|G]] (12/118 = 10.2%), [[haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N9]] (10/118 = 8.5%), [[haplogroup F (mtDNA)|F]] (9/118 = 7.6%), [[haplogroup A (mtDNA)|A]] (8/118 = 6.8%), [[haplogroup Z (mtDNA)|Z]] (4/118 = 3.4%), [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M9]] (3/118 = 2.5%), and [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M8]] (2/118 = 1.7%).&lt;ref name = &quot;Zheng_2011&quot;&gt;Zheng H-X, Yan S, Qin Z-D, Wang Y, Tan J-Z, ''et al.'' (2011), &quot;Major Population Expansion of East Asians Began before Neolithic Time: Evidence of mtDNA Genomes.&quot; ''PLoS ONE'' 6(10): e25835. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0025835&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Single-nucleotide polymorphism====<br /> A 2011 SNP consortium study done by the [[Chinese Academy of Sciences]] and [[Max Planck Society]] consisting of 1719 DNA samples determined that Koreans and Japanese clustered near to each other, confirming the findings of an earlier study that Koreans and Japanese are related. However, the Japanese were found to be genetically closer to South Asian populations as evident by a genetic position that is significantly closer towards South Asian populations on the principal component analysis (PCA) chart. Some Japanese individuals are also genetically closer to Southeast Asian and Melanesian populations when compared to other East Asians such as Koreans and Han Chinese, indicating possible genetic interactions between Japanese and these populations.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yang X, Xu S | title = Identification of close relatives in the HUGO Pan-Asian SNP database | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 6 | issue = 12 | pages = e29502 | date = 29 December 2011 | pmid = 22242128 | pmc = 3248454 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0029502 | bibcode = 2011PLoSO...629502Y | author4 = Indian Genome Variation Consortium | author3 = HUGO Pan-Asian SNP Consortium }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2008 study about genome-wide SNPs of East Asians by Chao Tian ''et al.'' reported that Japanese along with other East Asians such as [[Koreans|Joseon Korean]]s and [[Han Chinese]] are genetically distinguishable from Southeast Asians and that the Japanese are related to Koreans, who in turn are more closely related to Han Chinese. However, the Japanese are relatively genetically distant from Han Chinese, compared to Koreans.&lt;ref name=&quot;Public Library of Science&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Tian C, Kosoy R, Lee A, Ransom M, Belmont JW, Gregersen PK, Seldin MF | title = Analysis of East Asia genetic substructure using genome-wide SNP arrays | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 3 | issue = 12 | pages = e3862 | date = December 5, 2008 | pmid = 19057645 | pmc = 2587696 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0003862 | bibcode = 2008PLoSO...3.3862T }}&lt;/ref&gt; Another study (2017) shows a relative strong relation between all East and Southeast Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aId=3030017|title=Pinning down Korean-ness through DNA|website=Korea JoongAng Daily|language=ko|access-date=2019-07-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Immunoglobulin G====<br /> <br /> Hideo Matsumoto, professor [[emeritus]] at [[Osaka Medical College]] tested Gm types, genetic markers of [[immunoglobulin G]], of Japanese populations for a 2009 study.&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | last1 = Matsumoto | first1 = Hideo | name-list-style = vanc | year = 2009 | title = The origin of the Japanese race based on genetic markers of immunoglobulin G. | journal = Proceedings of the Japan Academy Series B | volume = 85 | issue = 2| pages = 69–82 | doi = 10.2183/pjab.85.69 | pmid = 19212099 | pmc = 3524296 | bibcode = 2009PJAB...85...69M }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to this study, the Gm ab3st gene is found at notably high frequencies across eastern Siberia, [[North China|northern China]], [[Korea]], [[Mongolia]], Japan, and [[Tibet]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; The mean frequency of Gm ab3st for the mainstream Japanese population was found to be 26.0%, with a peak in the [[Yaeyama Islands]] (36.4% [[Yonaguni]], 32.1% [[Ishigaki Island|Ishigaki]]) among all populations in Japan and peaks in [[Akita, Akita|Akita]] (29.5%) and [[Shizunai]] (28.3%) among mainstream Japanese.&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; On mainland Asia, peak frequencies of Gm ab3st were found among [[Oroqen people|Oroqen]] (44.0%) and [[Tungus]] (30.0%) in [[northeast China]] and among the north Baikal [[Buryats]] (30.7%); however, this gene is also frequent among [[Eskimos]] (25.4% Alaska, 24.7% Greenland, 20.5% Chaplin, Russia), [[Chukotkan languages|Luoravetlans]] ([[Koryaks|Koryak]] 20.0%, [[Chukchi people|Chukchi]] 15.3%), and [[Athabaskans]] (New Mexico [[Apache]] 19.7%, Alaska Athabascan 14.3%), and it is not uncommon even as far west as the south shore of the [[Caspian Sea]] (8.8% [[Gilan Province|Gilani]], 8.5% [[Mazanderan Province|Mazanderani]]).&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt; Minimum frequencies of Gm ab3st were found in [[Yakushima]] (22.0%) among all populations in Japan and in [[Tsu, Mie|Tsu]] (23.3%) and [[Ōita, Ōita|Ōita]] (23.6%) among mainstream Japanese.&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; The data from small, isolated island populations, such as those of Yonaguni, Ishigaki, and Yakushima, were not used when calculating the mean for the mainstream Japanese population.&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; The study also considered [[Ainu people|Ainu]] and [[Koreans|Korean]] populations and found Gm ab3st with a frequency of 25.2% among Ainu in [[Hidaka Subprefecture|Hidaka, Hokkaido]] and a mean frequency of 14.5% (range 13.1% [[Pusan]], South Korea to 18.6% [[Yanji]], China) among Koreans.&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Gm afb1b3, on the other hand, is a southern marker gene possibly originating in [[South China|southern China]] on the background of the fb1b3 gene (the modal Gm type among [[Caucasoids]]) and found at very high frequencies across southern China, [[Southeast Asia]], [[Taiwan]], [[Sri Lanka]], [[Bangladesh]], [[Nepal]], [[Assam]], and the [[Pacific Islands]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; Professor Matsumoto has remarked that the center of dispersal of the Gm afb1b3 gene may be in the Yunnan and Guangxi area of southern China; extremely high frequencies of this gene have been observed in samples of mostly [[Tai-Kadai languages|Daic]] peoples from this region (95.2% [[Sui people|Shui]] in [[Sandu Shui Autonomous County|Sandu]], Guizhou, 94.2% [[Zhuang people|Zhuang]] in Guangxi, 91.4% [[Bouyei people|Bouyei]] in [[Duyun]], Guizhou, 87.5% [[Miao people|Miao]] in Guizhou, 84.0% [[Dai people|Dai]] in [[Mangshi|Luxi]], Yunnan) and from neighboring Laos (97.0% Laotian) and Thailand (89.9% Thai).&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt; However, Gm afb1b3 is almost equally common among people in Malaysia (97.3% [[Kadazan people|Kadazan]] on Borneo, 85.0% [[Malay people|Malay]]), Indonesia (76.6% [[Sulawesi]], 75.2% [[Java]]), the Philippines (83.6% [[Luzon]] Filipinos, 76.4% Luzon Negritos, 67.2% Mindanao Negritos), [[Karen people]] in Thailand (82.3%), [[Bodo-Kachari people|Kachari]]s in Assam (80.9%), Cambodians (76.7%), [[Taiwanese aborigines]] (76.2%), [[Micronesian people|Micronesians]] (88.7%), [[Melanesians]] (74.6%), and [[Polynesians]] (74.7% [[Cook Islands]], 69.4% [[Hawaii]]).&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt; The study found that the mean frequency of Gm afb1b3 was 10.6% (range 7.8% [[Shizunai]] to 13.0% [[Osaka]]) for the general Japanese population. Minimum frequencies (4.0% to 4.4%) of Gm afb1b3 were found among the [[Ryukyuan people|native people]] in the Yaeyama and [[Miyako Islands|Miyako]] islands in the extreme south of Japan and among the Ainu (4.3%) in the extreme north of Japan. The author suggested that the somewhat elevated frequency of the Gm afb1b3 gene among the mainstream Japanese compared to the Sakishima islanders and the Ainu may have resulted from some admixture of the mainstream Japanese population at rates as low as 7–8% with southern Asian (from southern China or Southeast Asia as far west as Bangladesh and Nepal) populations having the Gm afb1b3 gene in high frequency.&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> The other Gm types observed among Japanese are ag (45.8%) and axg (17.6%), which are not so useful for discerning human migrations and genetic relationships because they appear to be [[symplesiomorphy|retained from a common ancestor of most modern humans]] and are found in similar proportions (with the frequency of ag being significantly greater than the frequency of axg) in many populations all over the world (aboriginal Australians and Americans, South Asians, Caucasoids, ''etc.'').&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Genetic components compared with other Asian populations ====<br /> A 2017 study conducted by Fumihiko Takeuchi, Tomohiro Katsuya, Ryosuke Kimura and Norihiro Kato compared three genetically distinct Japanese groups, Hondu ([[Honshu]]), [[Ryukyu Islands|Ryukyu]] and [[Ainu people|Ainu]] to 26 other Asian populations to analyze the shared ancestry and genetic differentiation between the Japanese people and other Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;PLOS&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Takeuchi F, Katsuya T, Kimura R, Nabika T, Isomura M, Ohkubo T, Tabara Y, Yamamoto K, Yokota M, Liu X, Saw WY, Mamatyusupu D, Yang W, Xu S, Teo YY, Kato N | title = The fine-scale genetic structure and evolution of the Japanese population | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 12 | issue = 11 | pages = e0185487 | year = 2017 | pmid = 29091727 | pmc = 5665431 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0185487 | bibcode = 2017PLoSO..1285487T }}&lt;/ref&gt; The study revealed for the Japanese as a whole, some genetic components from all of the Central, East, Southeast and South Asian populations are prevalent in the Japanese population with the major components of ancestry profile coming from the [[Koreans|Korean]] and [[Han Chinese]] clusters.&lt;ref name=&quot;PLOS&quot;/&gt; The major components of the Japanese Hondo cluster is similar to the Korean (87–94%), followed by Han Chinese 1 (0–8%) clusters.&lt;ref name=&quot;PLOS&quot;/&gt; The genetic components from the Southeast Asian ([[Thai people|Thais]], [[Vietnamese people|Vietnamese]] and [[Malays (ethnic group)|Malays]]) and South Asian ([[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]] and [[Tamils]]) clusters were larger for the Ryukyu cluster – Southeast Asian (4–6%) and South Asian (4–6%) – in comparison to the results found in the Hondo cluster – Southeast Asian (0–1%) and South Asian (1–2%).&lt;ref name=&quot;PLOS&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Predominantly Yayoi Origins of the Modern Japanese ====<br /> A recent study (2018) shows that the Japanese are predominantly descendants of the Yayoi people and are closely related to other modern East Asians, especially [[Koreans]] and [[Han Chinese]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Wang_2018&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web | title = Today's East Asians are very genetically similar to their ancient ancestors |url=https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/1/14469236/east-asian-genetic-sequencing-ancestors-history-hunter-gatherers | first = Angela | last = Chen | name-list-style = vanc |date=2017-02-01|website=The Verge|access-date=2019-04-17}}&lt;/ref&gt; It is estimated that the majority of Japanese only has about 12% Jōmon ancestry or even less.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/fukayomi/20171214-OYT8T50003/|title=「縄文人」は独自進化したアジアの特異集団だった! : 深読み|date=2017-12-15|website=読売新聞オンライン|language=ja|access-date=2019-04-17}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Recent studies suggest that the Japanese people are predominantly descendants of the [[Yayoi people]], and that the Yayoi largely displaced the local Jōmon.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wang_2018&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> A genome research (Takahashi et al. 2019) shows that modern Japanese (Yamato) do not have much Jōmon ancestry at all. Nuclear genome analysis of Jōmon samples and modern Japanese samples show strong differences.&lt;ref name=&quot;Nara_2019&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Takahashi R, Koibuchi R, Saeki F, Hagihara Y, Yoneda M, Adachi N, Nara T |title=Mitochondrial DNA analysis of the human skeletons excavated from the Shomyoji shell midden site, Kanagawa, Japan |journal=Anthropological Science |date=2019 |volume=127 |issue=1 |pages=65–72 |doi=10.1537/ase.190307 |doi-access=free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study by Gakihari et al. 2019 estimate the gene-flow from Jōmon people into modern Japanese people at about 3.3% or 9.8%, and that modern Japanese cluster closely with other East Asians but are clearly distinct from the [[Ainu people]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal | vauthors = Gakuhari T, Nakagome S, Rasmussen S, Allentoft M, Sato T, Korneliussen T, Chuinneagáin BN, Matsumae H, Koganebuchi K, Schmidt R, Mizushima S | display-authors = 6 |date=March 15, 2019 |orig-year=2019 |title=Jomon genome sheds light on East Asian population history |url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/03/15/579177.full.pdf |publisher=[[bioRxiv]] |publication-date=March 15, 2019 |pages=3–5}}&lt;/ref&gt; A study by Kanazawa-Kiriyama et al. (2019) estmates 9–13% ancestry from the Jomon in the modern Japanese.&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ase/advpub/0/advpub_190415/_pdf/-char/en Late Jomon male and female genome sequences from the Funadomari site in Hokkaido, Japan - Hideaki Kanzawa-Kiriyama, Department of Anthropology, National Museum of Nature and Science 2018/2019en]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Ainu people ===<br /> The [[Ainu people]], an ethnic minority in [[Hokkaido]], [[Sakhalin]] and the [[Kurils]], were found to have formed from two distinct ancestry groups during the [[Jōmon period]], one distinctive Paleolithic population from [[Central Asia]] and one ancient population from [[Northeast Asia]] ([[Okhotsk culture|Okhotsk people]], with both arriving at different times during the Jōmon period in Japan. According to Lee and Hasegawa from the [[Waseda University]], the [[Ainu language|Ainu-speakers]] itself originated from the Northeast Asian/Okhotsk population, which established themselves in northern Hokkaido and expanded into large parts of [[Honshu]] and the [[Kurils]] and created the Incipient Jōmon culture, long before the arrival of contemporary Japanese people.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|last=Lee, Hasegawa|first=Sean, Toshikazu|date=April 2013|title=Evolution of the Ainu Language in Space and Time|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236604406_Evolution_of_the_Ainu_Language_in_Space_and_Time|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=|website=|quote=In this paper, we reconstructed spatiotemporal evolution of 19 Ainu language varieties, and the results are in strong agreement with the hypothesis that a recent population expansion of the Okhotsk people played a critical role in shaping the Ainu people and their culture. Together with the recent archaeological, biological and cultural evidence, our phylogeographic reconstruction of the Ainu language strongly suggests that the conventional dual-structure model must be refined to explain these new bodies of evidence. The case of the Ainu language origin we report here also contributes additional detail to the global pattern of language evolution, and our language phylogeny might also provide a basis for making further inferences about the cultural dynamics of the Ainu speakers [44,45].}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;崎谷満『DNA・考古・言語の学際研究が示す新・日本列島史』(勉誠出版 2009年)(in Japanese)&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://www.jjarchaeology.jp/contents/pdf/vol002/2-1_034-059.pdf|title=Jōmon culture and the peopling of the Japanese archipelago|last=Schmidt, Seguchi|year=2014|quote=In this respect, the biological identity of the Jomon is heterogeneous, and it may be indicative of diverse peoples who possibly belonged to a common culture, known as the Jomon}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> A study by Gakuhari et al. (2019) suggests about 79.3% ancestry from the Jomon in the modern Ainu.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Gakuhari|first1=Takashi|last2=Nakagome|first2=Shigeki|last3=Rasmussen|first3=Simon|last4=Allentoft|first4=Morten|last5=Sato|first5=Takehiro|last6=Korneliussen|first6=Thorfinn|last7=Chuinneagáin|first7=Blánaid|last8=Matsumae|first8=Hiromi|last9=Koganebuchi|first9=Kae|last10=Schmidt|first10=Ryan|last11=Mizushima|first11=Souichiro|date=March 15, 2019|orig-year=2019|title=Jomon genome sheds light on East Asian population history|url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/03/15/579177.full.pdf|publisher=[[bioRxiv]]|publication-date=March 15, 2019|pages=3–5}}&lt;/ref&gt; <br /> A study by Kanazawa-Kiriyama et al. (2019) suggests about 66%.&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ase/advpub/0/advpub_190415/_pdf/-char/en Late Jomon male and female genome sequences from the Funadomari site in Hokkaido, Japan - Hideaki Kanzawa-Kiriyama, Department of Anthropology, National Museum of Nature and Science 2018/2019en]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Koreans==<br /> <br /> Studies of [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|polymorphisms in the human Y-chromosome]] have so far produced evidence to suggest that the [[Koreans|Korean people]] have a long history as a distinct, mostly [[endogamy|endogamous]] ethnic group, with successive waves of people moving to the peninsula and three major Y-chromosome haplogroups.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kim SH, Han MS, Kim W, Kim W | title = Y chromosome homogeneity in the Korean population | journal = International Journal of Legal Medicine | volume = 124 | issue = 6 | pages = 653–7 | date = November 2010 | pmid = 20714743 | doi = 10.1007/s00414-010-0501-1 | s2cid = 27125545 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The reference population for Koreans used in [[Genographic Project#Geno 2.0 Next Generation|Geno 2.0 Next Generation]] is 94% Eastern Asia and 5% Southeast Asia &amp; Oceania.&lt;ref&gt;[[Genographic Project#Geno 2.0 Next Generation|Reference Populations – Geno 2.0 Next Generation]] . (2017). [[Genographic Project|The Genographic Project]]. Retrieved 15 May 2017, from [https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/ link.]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Several studies confirmed that Koreans are basically a [[Northeast Asia]]&lt;nowiki/&gt;n population, but that Korean populations have both Northeast and Southeast Asian genome.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Jin HJ, Tyler-Smith C, Kim W | title = The peopling of Korea revealed by analyses of mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal markers | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 4 | issue = 1 | pages = e4210 | date = 2009-01-16 | pmid = 19148289 | pmc = 2615218 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0004210 | bibcode = 2009PLoSO...4.4210J }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Paternal lineages===<br /> Jin Han-jun et al. (2003)&lt;!--The article's abstract wrote this person's name as &quot;Han-Jun Jin.&quot; Jin Han-jun is this person's name in the Korean name ordering.--&gt; said that the distribution of [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromosomal haplogroups]] shows that Koreans have a complex origin that results from genetic contributions from [[Colonisation (biology)|range expansions]], most of which are from southern-to-northern China, and genetic contributions from the northern Asian settlement.&lt;!--This information is in the last sentence of the article's abstract.--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2003&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Korean males display a high frequency of [[Haplogroup O-M176]] (O1b2, formerly O2b), a subclade that probably has spread mainly from somewhere in the Korean Peninsula or its vicinity,&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2011&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Balaresque2015&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Balaresque P, Poulet N, Cussat-Blanc S, Gerard P, Quintana-Murci L, Heyer E, Jobling MA | title = Y-chromosome descent clusters and male differential reproductive success: young lineage expansions dominate Asian pastoral nomadic populations | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 23 | issue = 10 | pages = 1413–22 | date = October 2015 | pmid = 25585703 | pmc = 4430317 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2014.285 }}&lt;/ref&gt; and [[Haplogroup O-M122]] (O2, formerly O3), a common Y-DNA haplogroup among East and Southeast Asians in general.&lt;ref name = &quot;Shi2005&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shi H, Dong YL, Wen B, Xiao CJ, Underhill PA, Shen PD, Chakraborty R, Jin L, Su B | title = Y-chromosome evidence of southern origin of the East Asian-specific haplogroup O3-M122 | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 77 | issue = 3 | pages = 408–19 | date = September 2005 | pmid = 16080116 | pmc = 1226206 | doi = 10.1086/444436 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot;/&gt; Haplogroup O1b2-M176 has been found in approximately 30% (ranging from 20%&lt;ref name = &quot;Jin_2003&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Xue Y, Zerjal T, Bao W, Zhu S, Shu Q, Xu J, Du R, Fu S, Li P, Hurles ME, Yang H, Tyler-Smith C | title = Male demography in East Asia: a north-south contrast in human population expansion times | journal = Genetics | volume = 172 | issue = 4 | pages = 2431–9 | date = April 2006 | pmid = 16489223 | pmc = 1456369 | doi = 10.1534/genetics.105.054270 }}&lt;/ref&gt; to 37%&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt;) of sampled Korean males, while haplogroup O2-M122 has been found in approximately 40% of sampled Korean males.&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Shin2001&quot; &gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shin DJ, Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Choi JW, Han MS, Kang PW, Choi SK, Kim W | title = Y-chromosome multiplexes and their potential for the DNA profiling of Koreans | journal = International Journal of Legal Medicine | volume = 115 | issue = 2 | pages = 109–17 | date = October 2001 | pmid = 11724428 | doi = 10.1007/s004140100248 | s2cid = 27739773 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2007&quot;/&gt; Korean males also exhibit a moderate frequency (approximately 15%) of [[Haplogroup C-M217]].<br /> <br /> About 2% of Korean males belong to [[Haplogroup D-M174]] (0/216 = 0.0% DE-YAP,&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2007&quot; /&gt; 3/300 = 1.0% DE-M145,&lt;ref name = &quot;Park2013&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Park MJ, Lee HY, Kim NY, Lee EY, Yang WI, Shin KJ | title = Y-SNP miniplexes for East Asian Y-chromosomal haplogroup determination in degraded DNA | journal = Forensic Science International. Genetics | volume = 7 | issue = 1 | pages = 75–81 | date = January 2013 | pmid = 22818129 | doi = 10.1016/j.fsigen.2012.06.014 }}&lt;/ref&gt; 1/68 = 1.5% DE-YAP(xE-SRY4064),&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot; /&gt; 8/506 = 1.6% [[Haplogroup D1b (Y-DNA)|D1b-M55]],&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kim SH, Kim KC, Shin DJ, Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Han MS, Song JM, Kim W, Kim W | title = High frequencies of Y-chromosome haplogroup O2b-SRY465 lineages in Korea: a genetic perspective on the peopling of Korea | journal = Investigative Genetics | volume = 2 | issue = 1 | pages = 10 | date = April 2011 | pmid = 21463511 | pmc = 3087676 | doi = 10.1186/2041-2223-2-10 }}&lt;/ref&gt; 3/154 = 1.9% DE, 18/706 = 2.55% D-M174,&lt;ref name=&quot;Kwon2015&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kwon SY, Lee HY, Lee EY, Yang WI, Shin KJ | title = Confirmation of Y haplogroup tree topologies with newly suggested Y-SNPs for the C2, O2b and O3a subhaplogroups | journal = Forensic Science International. Genetics | volume = 19 | pages = 42–46 | date = November 2015 | pmid = 26103100 | doi = 10.1016/j.fsigen.2015.06.003 }}&lt;/ref&gt; 5/164 = 3.0% D-M174,&lt;ref name=&quot;Katoh_2005&quot; /&gt; 1/75 D1b*-P37.1(xD1b1-M116.1) + 2/75 D1b1a-M125(xD1b1a1-P42) = 3/75 = 4.0% D1b-P37.1,&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt; 3/45 = 6.7% D-M174&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wells RS, Yuldasheva N, Ruzibakiev R, Underhill PA, Evseeva I, Blue-Smith J, Jin L, Su B, Pitchappan R, Shanmugalakshmi S, Balakrishnan K, Read M, Pearson NM, Zerjal T, Webster MT, Zholoshvili I, Jamarjashvili E, Gambarov S, Nikbin B, Dostiev A, Aknazarov O, Zalloua P, Tsoy I, Kitaev M, Mirrakhimov M, Chariev A, Bodmer WF | display-authors = 6 | title = The Eurasian heartland: a continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 98 | issue = 18 | pages = 10244–9 | date = August 2001 | pmid = 11526236 | pmc = 56946 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.171305098 | bibcode = 2001PNAS...9810244W }}&lt;/ref&gt;). The D1b-M55 subclade has been found with maximal frequency in a small sample (n=16) of the [[Ainu people]] of Japan, and is generally frequent throughout the Japanese Archipelago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Tajima2004&quot;&gt;<br /> {{cite journal | vauthors = Tajima A, Hayami M, Tokunaga K, Juji T, Matsuo M, Marzuki S, Omoto K, Horai S | title = Genetic origins of the Ainu inferred from combined DNA analyses of maternal and paternal lineages | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 49 | issue = 4 | pages = 187–93 | year = 2004 | pmid = 14997363 | doi = 10.1007/s10038-004-0131-x | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; Other haplogroups that have been found less commonly in samples of Korean males are Y-DNA [[haplogroup N-M231]] (approx. 4%), [[haplogroup O-M119]] (approx. 3%), [[haplogroup O-M268]](xM176) (approx. 2%), [[haplogroup Q-M242]] and [[Haplogroup R1]] (approx. 2% total), J, Y*(xA, C, DE, J, K), L, C-RPS4Y(xM105, M38, M217), and C-M105.&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2011&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> [[Korea Foundation]] Associate Professor of History, Eugene Y. Park, said that there is no correlation between a Korean person's [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup]] and their surname or ancestral seat.&lt;ref name=&quot;ProfessorEugenePark&quot;&gt;Eugene Y. Park. (n.d.). [[University of Pennsylvania School of Arts and Sciences|Penn Arts &amp; Sciences]] East Asian Languages and Civilizations. Retrieved January 24, 2018, from [https://www.sas.upenn.edu/ealc/people/eugene-y-park link.] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20171111194602/https://www.sas.upenn.edu/ealc/people/eugene-y-park |date=11 November 2017 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;!--This first citation is to cite Eugene Y. Park's credential as &quot;Korea Foundation Associate Professor of History&quot;.--&gt;&lt;ref&gt;In a YouTube video which was published on May 18, 2015, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akiv2ji6EiY&amp;t=9m9s from the 9:09 mark of the video to 9:56 mark of the video], [[Korea Foundation]] Associate Professor of History, Eugene Y. Park said, &quot;Unlike the Jewish people, Jewish males with the traditionally priestly surnames such as the [[Levi (surname)|Levi]], [[Levine]], [[Cohen (surname)|Cohen]], and others, who claim that they're descended from [[Moses|Moses's]] brother, [[Aaron]], and the Y-DNA analysis actually shows that the majority of the Jewish men with the, such surnames, descend from a single male, who lived about a hundred generations ago, around the time of [[the Exodus]]. In complete, in stark contrast, Y-DNA analysis shows that there's no correlation between [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-DNA haplotype or haplogroup]], and a [[List of Korean surnames|Korean person's surname]] or ancestral seat. It's fairly random.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;!--This second citation is to cite the statement which is attributed to Eugene Y. Park.--&gt;<br /> <br /> He Miao&lt;!--The article wrote the name as &quot;Miao He&quot;. &quot;He Miao&quot; is the person's name in the Chinese name order.--&gt; et al. (2009) created an artificial combination of equal parts of the [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromsomes]] of the [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] samples of Han Chinese in Beijing and Japanese in Tokyo. The study said that this artificial combination resembled five populations which included Koreans in South Korea and [[Koreans in China]].&lt;!--This information is in the second sentence of the third paragraph of the right column of page 5 of 8 of the PDF document. That sentence uses the acronyms &quot;CHB&quot; and &quot;JPT&quot;. These two acronyms are defined in the second sentence of the &quot;Introduction&quot; section of page 1 of 8 of the PDF document as &quot;Han Chinese in Beijing, China&quot; and &quot;Japanese in Tokyo, Japan,&quot; respectively. That sentence uses the phrase &quot;Chinese Koreans&quot; which could ambiguously mean either Koreans in China or Chinese in Korea. Figure 3 Map &quot;A&quot; on page 6 of 8 of the PDF document shows a dot for &quot;Chinese Korean&quot; in China north of North Korea, so the study must be using the term &quot;Chinese Koreans&quot; to mean an analyzed regional population of Koreans in China rather than Chinese in Korea. The same sentence uses the term &quot;Koreans,&quot; and Figure 3 Map &quot;A&quot; on page 6 of 8 of the PDF document shows the dot for &quot;Korean&quot; in South Korea, so the study, in that sentence, is using the singular term &quot;Korean&quot; to mean an analyzed regional population of Koreans in South Korea.--&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=He M, Gitschier J, Zerjal T, de Knijff P, Tyler-Smith C, Xue Y|year=2009|title=Geographical affinities of the HapMap samples|journal=PLOS ONE|volume=4|issue=3|pages=e4684|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0004684|pmc=2649532|pmid=19259268|bibcode=2009PLoSO...4.4684H}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Maternal lineages===<br /> Studies of Korean [[mitochondrial DNA]] lineages have shown that there is a high frequency of [[Haplogroup D (mtDNA)|Haplogroup D4]], ranging from approximately 23% (11/48) among ethnic Koreans in [[Arun Banner]], [[Inner Mongolia]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Kong_2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kong QP, Yao YG, Liu M, Shen SP, Chen C, Zhu CL, Palanichamy MG, Zhang YP | title = Mitochondrial DNA sequence polymorphisms of five ethnic populations from northern China | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 113 | issue = 5 | pages = 391–405 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 12938036 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1004-7 | s2cid = 6370358 }}&lt;/ref&gt; to approximately 32% (33/103) among Koreans from South Korea.&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2009&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Derenko2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Grzybowski T, Denisova G, Dambueva I, Perkova M, Dorzhu C, Luzina F, Lee HK, Vanecek T, Villems R, Zakharov I | display-authors = 6 | title = Phylogeographic analysis of mitochondrial DNA in northern Asian populations | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 81 | issue = 5 | pages = 1025–41 | date = November 2007 | pmid = 17924343 | pmc = 2265662 | doi = 10.1086/522933 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Haplogroup D4 is the modal mtDNA haplogroup among northern East Asians (Japanese, Ryukyuans, Koreans, Manchus, Oroqens, Manchurian Evenks, Daurs, Mongols, northern Han Chinese, Tibetans) in general, with a peak frequency among Japanese and Ryukyuans in Japan. [[Haplogroup B (mtDNA)|Haplogroup B]], which occurs very frequently in many populations of Southeast Asia, Polynesia, and the Americas, is found in approximately 10% (5/48 ethnic Koreans from Arun Banner, Inner Mongolia) to 20% (21/103 Koreans from South Korea) of Koreans.&lt;ref name = &quot;Kong_2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Derenko2007&quot; /&gt; [[Haplogroup A (mtDNA)|Haplogroup A]] has been detected in approximately 7% (7/103 Koreans from South Korea) to 15% (7/48 ethnic Koreans from [[Arun Banner]], Inner Mongolia) of Koreans.&lt;ref name = &quot;Kong_2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Derenko2007&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2009&quot;/&gt; Haplogroup A is the most common mtDNA haplogroup among the [[Chukchi people|Chukchi]], [[Eskimo]], [[Na-Dene languages|Na-Dene]], and many [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Amerind]] ethnic groups of North and Central America.<br /> <br /> The other half of the Korean mtDNA pool consists of an assortment of various haplogroups, each found with relatively low frequency, such as [[haplogroup G (mtDNA)|G]], [[haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N9]], [[haplogroup Y (mtDNA)|Y]], [[Haplogroup F (mtDNA)|F]], [[haplogroup D (mtDNA)|D5]], [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M7]], [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M8]], [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M9]], [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M10]], [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M11]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R11]], [[haplogroup C (mtDNA)|C]], and [[Haplogroup Z|Z]].<br /> <br /> Hwan Young Lee ''et al.'' (2006) studied a sample of 694 Koreans and found the following mtDNA distribution: 32.56% (226/694) [[haplogroup D (mtDNA)|D]] (including 188/694 = 27.09% D4, 37/694 = 5.33% D5, and 1/694 = 0.14% D6a), 14.84% (103/694) [[haplogroup B (mtDNA)|B]] (including 23/694 = 3.31% B4a, 22/694 = 3.17% B4b, 20/694 = 2.88% B5b, 12/694 = 1.73% B4c, 12/694 = 1.73% B4*, 10/694 = 1.44% B5a, 2/694 = 0.29% B4d, and 2/694 = 0.29% B4f), 9.65% (67/694) [[haplogroup G (mtDNA)|G]] (including 27/694 = 3.89% G2a, 18/694 = 2.59% G1a, 11/694 = 1.59% G3, 9/694 = 1.30% G*, 1/694 = 0.14% G2c, and 1/694 = 0.14% G4), 8.79% (61/694) [[haplogroup A (mtDNA)|A]] (including 23/694 = 3.31% A5a, 3/694 = 0.43% A5b, 3/694 = 0.43% A5c, 25/694 = 3.60% A4, and 7/694 = 1.01% A(xA4, A5)), 8.36% (58/694) [[haplogroup F (mtDNA)|F]], 8.21% (57/694) [[haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N9]] (including 18/694 = 2.59% N9a2a, 11/694 = 1.59% N9a2*, 11/694 = 1.59% N9a1, 9/694 = 1.30% Y1b, 4/694 = 0.58% N9a*, 2/694 = 0.29% N9b, and 2/694 = 0.29% Y2), 7.78% (54/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M7]] (including 25/694 = 3.60% M7b, 20/694 = 2.88% M7c, and 9/694 = 1.30% M7a), 4.76% (33/694) [[haplogroup M8 (mtDNA)|M8'CZ]] (including 17/694 = 2.45% [[haplogroup C (mtDNA)|C]], 7/694 = 1.01% M8a, 7/694 = 1.01% [[haplogroup Z (mtDNA)|Z]], and 2/694 = 0.29% pre-Z), 1.87% (13/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M9]], 1.73% (12/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M10]], 0.72% (5/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M11]], 0.29% (2/694) [[haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R11]], 0.14% (1/694) [[haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R9b]], 0.14% (1/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M12]], and 0.14% (1/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M*]].&lt;ref name = &quot;Lee2006&quot;&gt;Hwan Young Lee, Ji-Eun Yoo, Myung Jin Park, Ukhee Chung, Chong-Youl Kim, and Kyoung-Jin Shin, &quot;East Asian mtDNA haplogroup determination in Koreans: Haplogroup-level coding region SNP analysis and subhaplogroup-level control region sequence analysis.&quot; ''Electrophoresis'' (2006). DOI 10.1002/elps.200600151.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study of the mtDNA of 708 Koreans sampled from six regions of South Korea (134 from Seoul-[[Gyeonggi Province|Gyeonggi]], 118 from [[Jeolla Province|Jeolla]], 117 from [[Chungcheong Province|Chungcheong]], 114 from [[Gangwon Province (South Korea)|Gangwon]], 113 from [[Jeju Province|Jeju]], and 112 from [[Gyeongsang Province|Gyeongsang]]) found that they belonged to haplogroup D (35.5%, including 14.7% D4(xD4a, D4b), 7.8% D4a, 6.5% D5, 6.4% D4b, and 0.14% D(xD4, D5)), haplogroup B (14.8%, including 11.0% B4 and 3.8% B5), haplogroup A (8.3%), haplogroup M7 (7.6%), haplogroup F (7.1%), haplogroup M8'CZ (6.5%), haplogroup G (6.1%), haplogroup N9a (5.2%), haplogroup Y (3.8%), haplogroup M9 (2.7%), haplogroup M10 (1.6%), haplogroup M11 (0.42%), haplogroup N(xN9, Y, A, F, B4, B5) (0.28%), and haplogroup N9(xN9a) (0.14%).&lt;ref name = &quot;Hong2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors =Hong SB, Kim KC, Kim W | year = 2014 | title = Mitochondrial DNA haplogroups and homogeneity in the Korean population | journal = Genes &amp; Genomics | volume = 36| issue = 5| pages = 583–590| doi = 10.1007/s13258-014-0194-9 | s2cid = 16827252 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study of 1094 individuals in the Korean Genome Project found that they belonged to haplogroup D (34.19%), haplogroup B (13.89%), haplogroup M(xC, D, G, Z) (13.8%), haplogroup A (8.32%), haplogroup G (8.23%), haplogroup F (7.86%), haplogroup N(xA, B, F, R, Y) (5.76%), haplogroup C (3.02%), haplogroup R(xB, F) (2.01%), haplogroup Y (1.74%), and haplogroup Z (1.19%).&lt;ref name = &quot;Jeon2020&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Jeon S, Bhak Y, Choi Y | display-authors = etal | year = 2020 | title = Korean Genome Project: 1094 Korean personal genomes with clinical information | journal = Science Advances | volume = 6 | issue = 22| page = eaaz7835 | doi = 10.1126/sciadv.aaz7835 | pmid = 32766443 | pmc = 7385432 | bibcode = 2020SciA....6.7835J | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; The individuals sampled for the Korean Genome Project are mostly from the [[Ulsan]] metropolitan region.&lt;ref name = &quot;Jeon2020&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Autosomal DNA ===<br /> Jin Han-jun et al. (1999)&lt;!--The study wrote the first author's name as &quot;Han Jun Jin.&quot; Jin Han-jun is the first author's name in the Korean name ordering.--&gt; said that, based on genetic studies of classic [[genetic marker]]s of [[protein]] and [[nuclear DNA]], Koreans tend to be closely genetically related to Mongols among East Asians, which is supported by the following studies: Goedde et al. (1987); Saha &amp; Tay (1992); Hong et al. (1993); and Nei &amp; Roychoudhury (1993).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 2/6 of the PDF document (page 393).--&gt; The study said that the [[Human mitochondrial genetics|mtDNA]] 9‐[[Base pair|bp]] deletion frequency in the [[wikt:intergenic|intergenic]] ''[[Cytochrome c oxidase subunit II|COII]]/[[Transfer RNA|tRNA]]&lt;sup&gt;[[Lysine|Lys]]&lt;/sup&gt;'' region of Mongols (5.1%) is lower than that of Chinese (14.2%), Japanese (14.3%) and Koreans (15.5%). The study said that these 9‐bp deletion frequencies suggest that Koreans are closely related to Japanese and Chinese and that Koreans are not so closely related to Mongols.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and second sentences of the second paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396). The frequency numbers for Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are in the &quot;9-bp deletion&quot; column of Table 1 of page 4/6 of the PDF document (page 395).--&gt; The study said that the [[Homogeneity and heterogeneity|homogeneity]] in the 9-bp deletion frequencies among Chinese (14.2%), Japanese (14.3%) and Koreans (15.5%), only spanning from a low of 14.2% for Chinese to a high of 15.5% for Koreans, indicates that very few [[Human mitochondrial genetics|mtDNA]] are differentiated in these three populations.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second-to-last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396). The frequency numbers for Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are in the &quot;9-bp deletion&quot; column of Table 1 of page 4/6 of the PDF document (page 395).--&gt; The study said that the 9‐bp deletion frequencies for Vietnamese (23.2%) and [[Indonesians]] (25.0%), which are the two populations constituting Mongoloid Southeast Asians in the study, are relatively high frequencies when compared to the 9-bp deletion frequencies for Mongols(5.1%), Chinese (14.2%), Japanese (14.3%) and Koreans (15.5%), which are the four populations constituting Northeast Asians in the study. The study said that these 9-bp deletion frequencies are consistent with earlier surveys which showed that 9-bp deletion frequencies increase going from Japan to mainland Asia to the [[Malay Peninsula]], which is supported by the following studies: Horai et al. (1987); Hertzberg et al. (1989); Stoneking &amp; Wilson (1989); Horai (1991); Ballinger et al. (1992); Hanihara et al. (1992); and Chen et al. (1995).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second, third and fourth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 4/6 of the PDF document (page 395).--&gt; The study said that [[Genetic distance#Cavalli-Sforza chord distance|Cavalli-Sforza's chord genetic distance (4D)]], from Cavalli-Sforza &amp; Bodmer (1971), which is based on the [[allele]] frequencies of the intergenic ''COII/tRNA&lt;sup&gt;Lys&lt;/sup&gt;'' region, showed that Koreans are more genetically related to Japanese than Koreans are genetically related to the other East Asian populations which were surveyed.&lt;!--The preceding information is in first sentence of the third paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396). The caption in Table 2, which is in page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396), says, &quot;Cavalli-Sforza's cord genetic distance (4D) in the Table body was based on allele frequency in the intergenic ''COII/tRNA&lt;sup&gt;Lys&lt;/sup&gt;'' region.&quot; The caption in Table 2 misspelled the word &quot;chord&quot; as &quot;cord.&quot;--&gt; The Cavalli-Sforza's chord genetic distance (4D) between Koreans and other East Asian populations in the study, from least to greatest, are as follows: Korean to Japanese (0.0019), Korean to Chinese (0.0141), Korean to Vietnamese (0.0265), Korean to Indonesian (0.0316) and Korean to Mongols (0.0403).&lt;!--The preceding information is in Table 2 of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396).--&gt; The study said that the close genetic affinity between present-day Koreans and Japanese is expected due to the [[Yayoi people|Yayoi]] migration from China and the Korean Peninsula to Japan which began about 2,300 years ago, a migration which is supported by the following studies: Chard (1974); Hanihara (1991); Hammer &amp; Horai (1995); Horai et al. (1996); Omoto &amp; Saitou (1997).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second and third sentences of the third paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396).--&gt; The study said that Horai et al. (1996) detected [[Human mitochondrial genetics|mtDNA]] [[D-loop]] variation which supports the idea that a large amount of [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|maternal lineages]] came into Japan from immigrants from the Korean Peninsula after the [[Yayoi period]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second-to-last sentence of the third paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396).--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;JinHanjun1999&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Jin HJ, Choi JW, Shin DJ, Kim JM, Kim W|year=1999|title=Distribution of length variation of the mtDNA 9‐bp motif in the intergenic COII/tRNALys region in East Asian populations|journal=Korean Journal of Biological Sciences|volume=3|issue=4|pages=393–397|doi=10.1080/12265071.1999.9647513|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Wook&lt;!--The article writes this person's name as &quot;Wook Kim.&quot; &quot;Kim Wook&quot; is this person's name in the Korean name order.--&gt; et al. (2000) said that Chu et al. (1998) found that [[Phylogenetic tree|phylogeny]] which was based on 30 [[microsatellite]]s indicated that Korean people were closely related to Chinese people from [[Manchuria]] and [[Yunnan]], but Kim Wook et al. (2000) found that the high incidence of the DXYS156Y-null variant in northeast Chinese implied that it is possible to exclude these northeastern Chinese populations from being sources which are significant in Korean people.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the sixth sentence which starts with &quot;Interestingly&quot; and the eighth sentence which starts with &quot;The relatively high&quot; of the third paragraph of the left column of page 8/9 of the PDF document (page 82).--&gt; The phylogenetic analysis done by Wook et al. (2000) indicated that Japanese people are genetically closer to Korean people than Japanese people are genetically related to any of the following peoples: Mongolians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Filipinos and Thais. The study said that mainland Japanese having Koreans as their closest genetic population is consistent with the following previous studies: Hammer and Horai (1995); Horai et al. (1996); and Kim et al. (1998).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the ninth sentence which starts with &quot;The phylogeny also indicated&quot; and the tenth sentence which starts with &quot;This result is&quot; which are both in the third paragraph of the left column of page 8/9 of the PDF document (page 82). The &quot;phylogeny&quot; referenced in the ninth sentence refers to the first sentence of the same paragraph which said, &quot;Phylogenetic analysis also reflected a considerable difference between Southeast and Northeast Asian populations (Fig. 3).&quot; The groups indicated by the phrase, &quot;other Asian populations surveyed,&quot; can be seen in Table 1 or Table 2 or Figure 3 or the &quot;DNA samples&quot; section of the &quot;Subjects and methods&quot; section to be Mongolians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Filipinos and Thais.--&gt; The study found that Koreans are more genetically [[Homogeneity and heterogeneity|homogenous]] than the Japanese, and the study said that this might be due to different sizes of the [[Founder effect|founding populations]] and [[Colonisation (biology)|range expansions]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first sentence of the first paragraph of the right column of page 8/9 of the PDF document (page 82).--&gt; The study said that the moderate [[mean]] [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromosome haplotype]] diversity value for Koreans might be the result of migrations from East Asia that had a homogenizing influence.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the second paragraph of page 7/9 of the PDF document (page 81). The &quot;Korean variability (0.482)&quot; referenced in that sentence is the same thing as the &quot;diversity values (h)&quot; referenced in the third sentence of the fourth paragraph of the left column of page 6/9 of the PDF document (page 80). The variable &quot;h&quot; is indicated to be &quot;mean haplotype diversity&quot; in second sentence of the fourth paragraph of the right column of page 4/9 of the PDF document (page 78).--&gt; The study said that it is more probable that Koreans descend from dual infusions of Y-chromosomes from two different waves of East Asians rather than a single East Asian population due to the dual patterns of the Y-chromosome haplotype distribution found in Koreans.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the fourth sentence which starts with &quot;These dual patterns of the distribution&quot; and the last sentence of the article's abstract which is on page 2/9 of the PDF document (page 76). The fourth sentence clarifies that the &quot;dual patterns of the haplotype distribution&quot; referenced in the last sentence refers to Koreans.--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kim_2000&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Kim W, Shin DJ, Harihara S, Kim YJ|date=2000|title=Y chromosomal DNA variation in east Asian populations and its potential for inferring the peopling of Korea|journal=Journal of Human Genetics|volume=45|issue=2|pages=76–83|doi=10.1007/s100380050015|pmid=10721667|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Kim Jong-jin&lt;!--The study wrote Kim Jong-jin's name as &quot;Jong-Jin Kim&quot;.--&gt; et al. (2005) did a study about the genetic relationships among East Asians based on [[Allele frequency|allele frequencies]], particularly focusing on how close Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are genetically related to each other.&lt;!--This information is in the first sentence of the article's abstract on page 511 which is page 1/9 of the PDF document. The phrase &quot;particularly focusing on how... are related&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;with a specific focus on the relationships among&quot;.--&gt; Most Koreans were hard to distinguish from Japanese,&lt;!--This information is in the second-to-last sentence of the article's abstract on page 511 which is page 1/9 of the PDF document.--&gt; and the study was not able to clearly distinguish Koreans and Japanese.&lt;!--This information is in the second sentence of the third paragraph of the right column of page 518 which is page 8/9 of the PDF document.--&gt; Koreans and Japanese clustered together in the [[principal component analysis]] and the best [[Least squares|least-squares]] tree.&lt;!--This information is in the third-to-last sentence of the article's abstract on page 511 which is page 1/9 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that &quot;''[c]ommon ancestry and/or extensive gene flow''&quot; historically between Koreans and Japanese appears to be &quot;''likely''&quot; and results in a lot of difficulty finding population-specific alleles that could assist in differentiating Koreans and Japanese.&lt;!--This information is in the fourth sentence of the third paragraph of the right column of page 518 which is page 8/9 of the PDF document. The word &quot;historically&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;throughout history&quot;. The phrase &quot;appears to be&quot; is a rewording of the source text's word &quot;seem&quot;. The phrase &quot;results in a lot of difficulty finding&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;make it very hard to find&quot;. The phrase &quot;assist in differentiating&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;help differentiate&quot;.--&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Kim JJ, Verdu P, Pakstis AJ, Speed WC, Kidd JR, Kidd KK|date=October 2005|title=Use of autosomal loci for clustering individuals and populations of East Asian origin|journal=Human Genetics|volume=117|issue=6|pages=511–9|doi=10.1007/s00439-005-1334-8|pmid=16028061|s2cid=15585215}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Jung Jongsun et al. (2010)&lt;!--The article wrote this person's name as &quot;Jongsun Jung.&quot; &quot;Jung Jongsun&quot; is this person's name in the Korean name ordering.--&gt; used the following Korean samples for a study: Southeast Korean (sample regions: [[Gyeongju]], [[Goryeong County|Goryeong]] and [[Ulsan]]), Middle West Korean (sample regions: [[Jecheon]], [[Yeoncheon County|Yeoncheon]], [[Cheonan]] and [[Pyeongchang County|Pyeongchang]]) and Southwest Korean (sample regions: [[Gimje]], [[Naju]] and [[Jeju Province|Jeju]]).&lt;!--The abbreviations used in the study for the Korean populations (SE Korea, MW Korea &amp; SW Korea) are located in Table 1 which is on page 3/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; Due to political reasons, the study said that it did not use North Korean samples, but the study said that the &quot;''historical migration event of [[Baekje]] from [[Goguryeo]] Empire ([[37 BC|BC 37]]–[[668|AD 668]]) in Northern Korea imply that Northern lineages remain in South Korea.''&quot;&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and second sentences of the second paragraph of the left column of page 5/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that the &quot;''Northern people of the Goguryeo Empire''&quot; are closely related to [[Mongols|Mongolians]], and the study said that this group of people ruled most of Southwest Korea.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and second sentences of the first paragraph of the right column of page 2/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that &quot;''some of the royal families and their subjects in the Goguryeo Empire moved to this region and formed the Baekje Empire in [[18 BC|BC 18]]–[[22 BC|22]].''&quot; Southwest Koreans are closer to Mongolians in the study's [[Gene mapping|genome map]] than the other two Korean regions in the study are close to Mongolians. Southwest Koreans also display genetic connections with the [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] sample of Japanese in [[Tokyo]],&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second, third and fourth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document. The acronym &quot;JPT&quot; refers to the HapMap sample of Japanese in Tokyo, Japan. The last sentence of the second paragraph of the left column of page 3/8 of the PDF document says &quot;JPT (Tokyo),&quot; and Table 1 of the same page says &quot;Japanese HapMap(JPT).&quot;--&gt; and, in the [[neighbor joining]] tree, the [[Clade|nodes]] for Southwest Korea are close to Japan.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document. The abbreviation &quot;NJ&quot; used in that sentence was defined as &quot;Neighbor Joining&quot; in the last sentence of the second paragraph of the right column of page 2/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; In the study's Korea-China-Japan genome map, some Southwest Korean samples overlap with samples from Japan.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and third sentences of the first paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that the fairly close relationship, in both the study's [[genetic structure]] analysis and [[Gene mapping|genome map]], of the [[Jeju Province|Jeju]] Southwest Korean sample and the HapMap sample of Japanese in Tokyo, Japan, has made the evolutionary relationship of Chinese, Japanese and Koreans become clearer.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 5/8 of the PDF document. That sentence's reference to &quot;STRUCTURE results&quot; is explained to be an analysis of genetic structure, &quot;In our analysis of genetics structure by STRUCTURE program,&quot; in the first sentence of the third paragraph of the left column of page 3/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; Southeast Koreans display some genetic similarity with people of [[Kobe]], Japan, which indicates that there might have been links between these regions. The study said that it is possible that [[outlier]]s in the [[Gyeongju]] sample, one of the sampled Southeast Korean regions, and outliers in the Kobe, Japan, sample both have [[Indigenous peoples of Siberia|Siberian]] lineage due to Southeast Koreans having connections with Siberian lineages with respect to grave patterns and culture.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the fifth and sixth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The overall result for the study's Korea-Japan-China genome map indicates that some signals for Siberia remain in Southeast Korea.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document. The sentence construction in the source text's sentence which used the word &quot;respectively&quot; meant that the signals for Mongolia remain in SW Korea and signals for Siberia remain in SE Korea.--&gt; In contrast to the [[Gyeongju]] sample, the [[Goryeong County|Goryeong]] and [[Ulsan]] samples, which are both Southeast Korean samples, displayed average signals for the Korean Peninsula.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that Middle West Korea was a [[melting pot]] in the Korean Peninsula with people traveling from North to South, South to North, and people traveling from [[East China]], including from the [[Shandong Peninsula]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the sixth sentence, which starts with &quot;Model III,&quot; and the seventh sentences of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document. The sixth sentence uses the term &quot;SanDung peninsula&quot; for the Shandong Peninsula. The seventh sentence uses the term &quot;Peking&quot; for &quot;Beijing&quot;.--&gt; [[Western China|Western Chinese]], which included those in the Shandong Peninsula, travelled across the [[Yellow Sea]], and these Western Chinese lived and traded in both China and Korea.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the fourth sentence, the sentence which starts with &quot;Model III,&quot; of the first paragraph of the right column of page 2/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; In the study's genome map, Middle West Koreans are close to the [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] sample of Han Chinese in [[Beijing]]&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second-to-last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document. The acronym &quot;CHB&quot; refers to the HapMap sample of Han Chinese in Beijing, China. The last sentence of the second paragraph of the left column of page 3/8 of the PDF document says &quot;CHB (Peking),&quot; and Table 1 of the same page says &quot;Chinese HapMap(CHB).&quot;--&gt; and, in the [[neighbor joining]] tree, the [[Clade|nodes]] for Middle West Korea are close to China.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document. The abbreviation &quot;NJ&quot; used in that sentence was defined as &quot;Neighbor Joining&quot; in the last sentence of the second paragraph of the right column of page 2/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The overall result for the study's Korea-Japan-China genome map indicates that Middle West Korea displays an average signal for South Korea.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; Chinese people are located between Korean and Vietnamese people in the study's [[Gene mapping|genome map]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second-to-last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 5/8 of the PDF document.--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;JungJongsun2010&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|display-authors=6|vauthors=Jung J, Kang H, Cho YS, Oh JH, Ryu MH, Chung HW, Seo JS, Lee JE, Oh B, Bhak J, Kim HL|date=July 2010|title=Gene flow between the Korean peninsula and its neighboring countries|journal=PLOS ONE|volume=5|issue=7|pages=e11855|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0011855|pmc=2912326|pmid=20686617|bibcode=2010PLoSO...511855J}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;!--The Coriell Institute citation is being used to cite that the acronym &quot;CHB,&quot; which was used in Jung Jongsun et al. (2010) in reference to the Chinese HapMap sample from Beijing, was a sample of Han Chinese.--&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=https://www.coriell.org/1/NHGRI/Collections/HapMap-Collections/Han-Chinese-in-Beijing-China-CHB|title=Han Chinese in Beijing, China [CHB].|date=2018|work=Coriell Institute for Medical Research|access-date=27 February 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Kim Young-jin and Jin Han-jun (2013)&lt;!--The study wrote their names as &quot;Young Jin Kim &amp; Han Jun Jin.&quot; Kim Young-jin and Jin Han-jun are their names written in the Korean name ordering.--&gt; said that [[principal component analysis]] had Korean [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] samples clustering with neighboring East Asian populations which were geographically nearby them such as the Chinese and Japanese.&lt;!--This information is in the fifth sentence of the third paragraph of the left column of page 6/12 (page 357). Information about the principal component analysis being performed is in the first sentence of that paragraph.--&gt; The study said that Koreans are genetically closely related to [[Japanese people|Japanese]] in comparison to Koreans' genetic relatedness to other East Asians which included the following East and Southeast Asian peoples: [[Tujia people|Tujia]], [[Miao people|Miao]], [[Daur people|Daur]], [[She people|She]], [[Mongols]], [[Nakhi people|Naxi]], [[Khmer people|Cambodians]], [[Oroqen people|Oroqen]], [[Yakuts]], [[Yi people|Yi]], Southern Han Chinese, Northern Han Chinese, [[Nanai people|Hezhen]], [[Sibe people|Xibo]], [[Lahu people|Lahu]], [[Dai people|Dai]] and [[Monguor people|Tu]]. The study said that the close genetic relatedness of Koreans to Japanese has been reported in the following previous studies: Kivisild et al. (2002); Jin et al. (2003); Jin et al. (2009); and Underhill and Kivisild (2007).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the fifth sentence which starts with &quot;On comparison&quot; of the first paragraph of the left column of page 9/12 of the PDF document (page 360). The other East Asian populations which were compared are listed in the Table 2 of page 8/12 of the PDF document (page 359).--&gt; The study said that Jung et al. (2010) said that there is a genetic substructure in Koreans, but the study said that it found Korean [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] individuals to be highly genetically similar.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the third-to-last sentence which starts with &quot;Genetic sub-structure&quot; of the first paragraph of the right column of page 9/12 of the PDF document (page 360).--&gt; The study said that Jin et al. (2009) found that Koreans from different populations are not different in a significant way which indicates that Koreans are genetically [[Homogeneity and heterogeneity|homogenous]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the right column of page 9/12 of the PDF document (page 360).--&gt; The study said that the affinity of Koreans is predominately Southeast Asian with an estimated admixture of 79% Southeast Asian and 21% Northeast Asian for Koreans, but the study said that this does not mean that Koreans are [[Homogeneity and heterogeneity|heterogenous]], because all of the Koreans which were analyzed uniformly displayed a dual pattern of Northeast Asian and Southeast Asian origins.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second, third and fourth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 9/12 of the PDF document (page 360). On page 10/12 of the PDF document (page 361), Table 3 which lists Koreans' 79% Southeast Asian and 21% Northeast Asian estimated admixture uses the terms &quot;Northeast Asians&quot; and &quot;Southeast Asian&quot; in its title.--&gt; The study said that Koreans and Japanese displayed no observable difference between each other in their proportion of Southeast Asian and Northeast Asian admixture.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second, third and fourth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 6/12 of the PDF document (page 357). Figure 2 B on page 10/12 of the PDF document (page 361) shows the results referred to in those sentences.--&gt; The study said the 79% Southeast Asian and 21% Northeast Asian admixture estimate for Koreans is consistent with the interpretation of Jin et al. (2009) that Koreans descend from a Northeast Asian population which was subsequently followed by a male-centric migration from the southern region of Asia which changed both the [[Autosome|autosomal]] composition and [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromosomes]] in the Korean population.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and second sentences of the first paragraph of the left column of page 10/12 (page 361).--&gt;<br /> <br /> Veronika Siska et al. (2017) said that the [[Ulch people|Ulchi people]] are genetically closest in the study's panel to the human remains from the [[Chertovy Vorota Cave|Devil's Gate Cave]] which are dated to about 7,700 years ago.&lt;!--The 7,700 date comes from the second sentence of the &quot;Results&quot; section on page 1 of 10. In that sentence it's written as &quot;~7.7 ka&quot;. In the third sentence of the article's abstract on page 1 of 10, the date is alternatively written as &quot;~7.7 thousand years ago&quot;.--&gt; Modern Korean and Japanese, the [[Oroqen people]] and the [[Nanai people|Hezhen people]] display a high affinity to the human remains from Devil's Gate Cave. Considering the geographic distance of [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Amerindians]] from Devil's Gate Cave, Amerindians are unusually genetically close to the human remains from Devil's Gate Cave. Korean [[genome]]s display similar traits to Japanese genomes on genome-wide [[Single-nucleotide polymorphism|SNP]] data. In an admixture analysis, when the genes of Devil's Gate is made into a unique genetic component, this new Devil's Gate genetic component is highest in peoples of the Amur Basin, including Ulchi, and makes up about more than 50% of Koreans and Japanese. It also has a sporadic distribution among other East Asians, Central Asians and Southeast Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid28164156&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|display-authors=6|vauthors=Siska V, Jones ER, Jeon S, Bhak Y, Kim HM, Cho YS, Kim H, Lee K, Veselovskaya E, Balueva T, Gallego-Llorente M, Hofreiter M, Bradley DG, Eriksson A, Pinhasi R, Bhak J, Manica A|date=February 2017|title=Genome-wide data from two early Neolithic East Asian individuals dating to 7700 years ago|journal=Science Advances|volume=3|issue=2|pages=e1601877|doi=10.1126/sciadv.1601877|pmc=5287702|pmid=28164156|bibcode=2017SciA....3E1877S}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Immunoglobulin G ===<br /> Hideo Matsumoto, professor [[emeritus]] at [[Osaka Medical College]],&lt;!--Matsumoto's credentials are written in small text next to the asterisk one (*1) symbol at the bottom left of page 69 which is page 1/14 of the PDF document. The asterisk one symbol there corresponds to the asterisk one symbol following Hideo Matsumoto's name underneath the title of the article on the same page, indicating that those credentials are Matsumoto's credentials.--&gt; tested Gm types, genetic markers of [[immunoglobulin G]], of Korean populations for a 2009 study.&lt;!--The definition of &quot;Gm&quot; is in the article's abstract on numbered page 69 which is page 1/14 of the PDF document.--&gt; The Korean populations were populations in [[Jeju Island]], [[Busan]], [[Gwangju]], Kongsan, [[Jeonju]], [[Wonju]], the Kannung of South Korea and a Korean population in [[Yanji]].&lt;!--This information is in the first sentence of the last paragraph of the left column of numbered page 71 which is page 3/14 of the PDF document.--&gt; Matsumoto said that the Gm ab3st gene is a marker for northern [[Mongoloid]] possibly originating in Siberia and found at high frequencies across northeast Asia and Tibet&lt;!--This information is in the second sentence of the second paragraph of the left column of numbered page 78 which is page 10/14 of the PDF document.--&gt;. Matsumoto said that the average frequency of Gm ab3st for Koreans was 14.5% which was intermediate between an average frequency of 26% for general Japanese and a frequency of 11.7% which was for a Han Chinese population in [[Beijing]]. Matsumoto said that Gm afb1b3 is a southern marker gene possibly originating in southern China and found at high frequencies across Southeast Asia, southern China, Taiwan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Assam and parts of the Pacific. However, given the result that the [[Ryukyuan people|Okinawans]] being genetically most northern among the Japanese with the highest frequency of the Gm ab3st gene which is assigned to be ''northern'', the term ''northern'' and ''southern'' used in his study is controversial. Matsumoto said that the average frequency of Gm afb1b3 for Koreans was 14.7% which was intermediate between a frequency of 10.6% for general Japanese and a frequency of 24.1% for Beijing Han Chinese. Matsumoto said that Koreans displayed the northern Mongoloid pattern, but Matsumoto said that Koreans displayed a higher frequency of the southern marker gene, Gm afb1b3, than the Japanese. Matsumoto said that &quot;''Japanese and Korean populations were originally identical or extremely close to each other''&quot;, and Matsumoto said, &quot;''It seemed to be during the formation of the contemporary Korean population that such a Gm pattern intermediate between Japanese and the northern Han in China emerged.''&quot; Matsumoto said that the different Gm pattern between Japanese and Koreans most likely came about from frequent inflows of Chinese and/or northern populations into the Korean Peninsula.&lt;!--This information is in the section titled &quot;Characteristics of the Korean population&quot;. That section is a paragraph at the bottom of numbered page 71 which is page 3/14 of the PDF document, and this paragraph extends to the top of page 73 which is page 5/14 of the PDF document. The word &quot;inflows&quot; is a rewording of the source text's word &quot;influxes&quot;. The phrase &quot;most likely&quot; is a rewording of the source text's word &quot;probably&quot;. The phrase &quot;average frequency&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;mean frequency&quot; for the 26% frequency.--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Matsumoto2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Matsumoto H|year=2009|title=The origin of the Japanese race based on genetic markers of immunoglobulin G|journal=Proceedings of the Japan Academy. Series B, Physical and Biological Sciences|volume=85|issue=2|pages=69–82|doi=10.2183/pjab.85.69|pmc=3524296|pmid=19212099|bibcode=2009PJAB...85...69M}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Genetic history of Mongolians ==<br /> The [[Mongols]] are an ethnic group in northern China, Mongolia, parts of Siberia and Western Asia. They are believed to be the descendants of the [[Xianbei]] and the [[proto-Mongols]]. The former term includes the Mongols proper (also known as the [[Khalkha Mongols]]), [[Buryats]], [[Oirats]], the [[Kalmyk people]] and the Southern Mongols. The latter comprises the [[Abaga Mongols]], [[Abaganar]], [[Aohans]], [[Baarins]], [[Gorlos Mongols]], [[Jalaids]], [[Jaruud]], [[Khishigten]], [[Khuuchid]], [[Muumyangan]] and [[Onnigud]]. The [[Daur people]] are descendants of the para-Mongolic [[Khitan people]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://china.org.cn/english/2001/Aug/16896.htm|title=DNA Match Solves Ancient Mystery|website=china.org.cn|access-date=2018-12-25}}&lt;/ref&gt; Mongolians are also related to the Manchurians.<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> The majority of Mongolians belong to the y-DNA [[Haplogroup C-M217]]. Haplogroup C-M217 among the Mongols is characterized by very deep total diversity that dates back to the very origin of haplogroup C-M217 (TMRCA 33,900 [95% CI 31,300 &lt;-&gt; 36,500] ybp&lt;ref name = &quot;YFull&quot; /&gt;) and very shallow diversity in each of the frequently observed subclades: C-M504 (TMRCA 2,900 [95% CI 2,200 &lt;-&gt; 3,700] ybp), [[haplogroup C-M48|C-M86]] (TMRCA 3,700 [95% CI 3,000 &lt;-&gt; 4,500] ybp&lt;ref name = &quot;YFull&quot; /&gt;), C-M407 (TMRCA 4,400 [95% CI 3,500 &lt;-&gt; 5,200] ybp&lt;ref name = &quot;YFull&quot; /&gt;), and C-F1756 (TMRCA 5,000 [95% CI 4,200 &lt;-&gt; 5,800] ybp&lt;ref name = &quot;YFull&quot; /&gt;). Of these four subclades, C-M407 is phylogenetically extremely divergent from the others, and is more closely related to subclades of C-M217 that are found among present-day Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and other East and Southeast Asians; however, among Mongols, C-M407 is found most frequently toward the north (among Barghuts&lt;ref name = &quot;Malyarchuk2016&quot;&gt;Boris A Malyarchuk, Miroslava Derenko, Galina Denisova, Marcin Woźniak, Urszula Rogalla, Irina Dambueva, and Tomasz Grzybowski, &quot;Y chromosome haplotype diversity in Mongolic-speaking populations and gene conversion at the duplicated STR DYS385a,b in haplogroup C3-M407.&quot; ''Journal of Human Genetics'' (2016) 61, 491–496; doi:10.1038/jhg.2016.14; published online 25 February 2016.&lt;/ref&gt; and Buryats&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid25711029&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Har'kov VN, Hamina KV, Medvedeva OF, Simonova KV, Eremina ER, Stepanov VA | title = [Gene pool of Buryats: clinal variability and territorial subdivision based on data of Y-chromosome markers] | language = ru | journal = Genetika | volume = 50 | issue = 2 | pages = 203–13 | date = February 2014 | pmid = 25711029 | doi = 10.1134/S1022795413110082 | s2cid = 15595963 }}&lt;/ref&gt; as well as the neighboring [[Khamnigans]] and [[Soyots]]) and toward the west (among Dorbet Kalmyks&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Malyarchuk B, Derenko M, Denisova G, Khoyt S, Woźniak M, Grzybowski T, Zakharov I | title = Y-chromosome diversity in the Kalmyks at the ethnical and tribal levels | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 58 | issue = 12 | pages = 804–11 | date = December 2013 | pmid = 24132124 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.108 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Balinova2019&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Balinova N, Post H, Kushniarevich A, Flores R, Karmin M, Sahakyan H, Reidla M, Metspalu E, Litvinov S, Dzhaubermezov M, Akhmetova V, Khusainova R, Endicott P, Khusnutdinova E, Orlova K, Bakaeva E, Khomyakova I, Spitsina N, Zinchenko R, Villems R, Rootsi S | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal analysis of clan structure of Kalmyks, the only European Mongol people, and their relationship to Oirat-Mongols of Inner Asia | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 27 | issue = 9 | pages = 1466–1474 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 30976109 | pmc = 6777519 | doi = 10.1038/s41431-019-0399-0 }}&lt;/ref&gt;).<br /> <br /> [[Haplogroup O-M175]] and [[Haplogroup N-M231]] are found at medium rates among present-day Mongols. The subclades of Haplogroup O-M175 that have been observed among Mongols tend to be similar to those found among Han Chinese, whereas the subclades of Haplogroup N-M231 that have been observed among Mongols tend to be similar to those found among Nenets, Nganasans, Khakasses, and Tuvans (N-B478) on the one hand or those found among Chukchi, Koryaks, and Asian Eskimos on the other (N-B197).&lt;ref name = &quot;Ilumae2016&quot;&gt;{{harvnb|Ilumäe|2016}}&lt;/ref&gt; However, N-M2118, a subclade which is most often noted for its extremely high frequency among present-day populations of [[Yakutia]], has been observed in 21.4% (6/28) of a sample of [[Kalmyks|Kalmyk]] [[Khoshuud|Khoshut]],&lt;ref name = &quot;Balinova2019&quot; /&gt; and N-B525 is also widely observed among Mongols with low frequency. In addition, some members of a wide variety of other Y-DNA haplogroups have been found among present-day Mongols, including [[Haplogroup Q-M242]], [[Haplogroup R-M207]] ([[Haplogroup R-M343#R1b1a1a1 (R-M73)|Haplogroup R1b-M478]], [[Haplogroup R-M269|Haplogroup R1b-M269]], [[Haplogroup R1a|Haplogroup R1a-M17]], [[Haplogroup R-M124|Haplogroup R2a-M124]]), [[Haplogroup D-M174]], [[Haplogroup J-M172|Haplogroup J2a-M410]], [[Haplogroup J-M267|Haplogroup J1-Page8]], [[Haplogroup G-M285|Haplogroup G1-M285]], and [[Haplogroup I-M438#I-M223|Haplogroup I2a2-M436]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/mongols.html|title=Mongol Genetics – DNA of Mongolia's Khalkha Mongolians and others|website=www.khazaria.com|access-date=2018-12-25}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Maternal lineages ===<br /> <br /> The maternal haplogroups are diverse but similar to other northern Asian populations. The most common maternal haplogroups in Mongolians are [[haplogroup D4]], [[Haplogroup A (mtDNA)|Haplogroup A]], and [[Haplogroup B (mtDNA)|Haplogroup B.]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kolman CJ, Sambuughin N, Bermingham E | title = Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Mongolian populations and implications for the origin of New World founders | journal = Genetics | volume = 142 | issue = 4 | pages = 1321–34 | date = April 1996 | pmid = 8846908 | pmc = 1207128 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups [[Haplogroup HV (mtDNA)|Haplogroup HV]], [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|Haplogroup U]], [[Haplogroup K (mtDNA)|Haplogroup K]], [[Haplogroup I (mtDNA)|Haplogroup I]], [[Haplogroup J (mtDNA)|Haplogroup J]], represents 14% in western Xingjang Mongolian, 10% in Mongolia, 8.4% in central Inner Mongolian samples, 2% in eastern Xin Barage Zuoqi County samples.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cheng B, Tang W, He L, Dong Y, Lu J, Lei Y, Yu H, Zhang J, Xiao C | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic imprint of the Mongol: signal from phylogeographic analysis of mitochondrial DNA | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 53 | issue = 10 | pages = 905–913 | date = October 2008 | pmid = 18769869 | doi = 10.1007/s10038-008-0325-8 | quote = European-prevalent haplogroups (HV, U, K, I, J) are 14% in western Xingjang Mongolian, 10% in Monglia, 8.4% in central Inner Mongolian samples, and only 2% in eastern Xin Barage Zuoqi County samples, showing decreasing frequencies from west to east | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Tibetans==<br /> <br /> Modern Tibetan populations are genetically most similar to other modern [[East Asian]] populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot; /&gt; They also show more genetic affinity for modern [[Central Asian]] than modern Siberian populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2016 study found that the Tibetan gene pool diverged from that of [[Han Chinese]] around 15,000 years ago, which can be largely attributed to post-LGM ([[Last Glacial Maximum]]) arrivals. Analysis of around 200 contemporary populations showed that Tibetans share ancestry with populations from East Asia (~82%), Central Asia and Siberia (~11%), South Asia (~6%), and western Eurasia and Oceania (~1%). These results support that Tibetans arose from a mixture of multiple ancestral gene pools but that their origins are much more complicated and ancient than previously suspected.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Lu D, Lou H, Yuan K, Wang X, Wang Y, Zhang C, Lu Y, Yang X, Deng L, Zhou Y, Feng Q, Hu Y, Ding Q, Yang Y, Li S, Jin L, Guan Y, Su B, Kang L, Xu S | display-authors = 6 | title = Ancestral Origins and Genetic History of Tibetan Highlanders | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 99 | issue = 3 | pages = 580–594 | date = September 2016 | pmid = 27569548 | pmc = 5011065 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2016.07.002 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Relationship to other populations ===<br /> A study in 2010 suggested that the majority of the Tibetan gene pool may have diverged from the Zang around 15,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yi X, Liang Y, Huerta-Sanchez E, Jin X, Cuo ZX, Pool JE, Xu X, Jiang H, Vinckenbosch N, Korneliussen TS, Zheng H, Liu T, He W, Li K, Luo R, Nie X, Wu H, Zhao M, Cao H, Zou J, Shan Y, Li S, Yang Q, Ni P, Tian G, Xu J, Liu X, Jiang T, Wu R, Zhou G, Tang M, Qin J, Wang T, Feng S, Li G, Luosang J, Wang W, Chen F, Wang Y, Zheng X, Li Z, Bianba Z, Yang G, Wang X, Tang S, Gao G, Chen Y, Luo Z, Gusang L, Cao Z, Zhang Q, Ouyang W, Ren X, Liang H, Zheng H, Huang Y, Li J, Bolund L, Kristiansen K, Li Y, Zhang Y, Zhang X, Li R, Li S, Yang H, Nielsen R, Wang J, Wang J | display-authors = 6 | title = Sequencing of 50 human exomes reveals adaptation to high altitude | journal = Science | volume = 329 | issue = 5987 | pages = 75–8 | date = July 2010 | pmid = 20595611 | pmc = 3711608 | doi = 10.1126/science.1190371 | df = dmy-all | bibcode = 2010Sci...329...75Y }}&lt;/ref&gt; However, there are possibilities of much earlier human inhabitation of Tibet,&lt;ref name = &quot;Aldenderfer&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Aldenderfer M, Yinong Z |title= The Prehistory of the Tibetan Plateau to the Seventh Century A.D.: Perspectives and Research from China and the West Since 1950|doi=10.1023/B:JOWO.0000038657.79035.9e |volume=18 |issue= 1|journal=Journal of World Prehistory |pages=1–55|date= March 2004 |s2cid= 154022638}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Yuan&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yuan B, Huang W, Zhang D |title= New evidence for human occupation of the northern Tibetan Plateau, China during the Late Pleistocene |doi=10.1007/s11434-007-0357-z |volume=52 |issue= 19 |journal=Chinese Science Bulletin |pages=2675–2679 |date= October 2007 |bibcode= 2007ChSBu..52.2675Y |s2cid= 93228078 }}&lt;/ref&gt; and these early residents may have contributed to the modern Tibetan gene pool.&lt;ref name=&quot;Zhao&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao M, Kong QP, Wang HW, Peng MS, Xie XD, Wang WZ, Duan JG, Cai MC, Zhao SN, Tu YQ, Wu SF, Yao YG, Bandelt HJ, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = Mitochondrial genome evidence reveals successful Late Paleolithic settlement on the Tibetan Plateau | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 106 | issue = 50 | pages = 21230–5 | date = December 2009 | pmid = 19955425 | pmc = 2795552 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.0907844106 | df = dmy-all | bibcode = 2009PNAS..10621230Z }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The date of divergence between Tibetans and Sherpas was estimated to have taken place around 11,000 to 7,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> === Relationship to archaic hominins ===<br /> After modern Oceanic populations, modern Tibetan populations show the highest rate of allele sharing with archaic hominins at over 6%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt; Modern Tibetans show genetic affinities to three archaic populations: Denisovans, Neanderthals, and an unidentified archaic population.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> In comparison to modern Han populations, modern Tibetans show greater genetic affinity to [[Denisovans]]; however, both the Han and Tibetans have similar ratios of genetic affinity to general [[Neanderthal]] populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Modern Tibetans were identified as the modern population that has the most alleles in common with [[Ust'-Ishim man]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineage ===<br /> The distribution of [[Haplogroup D-M174]] (subclade [[Haplogroup D-Z27276]]) is found among nearly all the populations of Central Asia and Northeast Asia south of the Russian border, although generally at a low frequency of 2% or less. A dramatic spike in the frequency of D-M174 occurs as one approaches the [[Tibetan Plateau]]. D-M174 is also found at high frequencies among [[Japanese people]], but it fades into low frequencies in [[Korea]] and [[China proper]] between [[Japan]] and Tibet. The claim that the [[Navajo people]] and Tibetans are related, while [[Dené–Caucasian languages|discussed among linguists]] since [[Edward Sapir]], has not found support in genetic studies. Some light has been shed on their origins, however, by one genetic study in which it was indicated that Tibetan Y-chromosomes had multiple origins, one from Central Asia and the other from East Asia.&lt;ref&gt;Su, Bing, ''et al.'' (2000)&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Genetic history of Turks ==<br /> The Turkic peoples are a collection of [[ethno-linguistic group]]s of [[Central Asia|Central-]], [[East Asia|Eastern-]], [[North Asia|Northern-]] and [[Western Asia|Western-Asia]] as well as parts of [[Europe]] and [[North Africa]]. They speak [[Language family|related languages]] belonging to the [[Turkic languages|Turkic language family]].<br /> <br /> Proposals for the homeland of the Turkic peoples and their language are far-ranging, from the [[Trans-Caspia|Transcaspian steppe]] to [[Northeastern Asia]] ([[Manchuria]]).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Valeev A, Litvinov S, Valiev R, Akhmetova V, Balanovska E, Balanovsky O, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Nymadawa P, Bahmanimehr A, Sahakyan H, Tambets K, Fedorova S, Barashkov N, Khidiyatova I, Mihailov E, Khusainova R, Damba L, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Osipova L, Voevoda M, Yepiskoposyan L, Kivisild T, Khusnutdinova E, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic legacy of the expansion of Turkic-speaking nomads across Eurasia | journal = PLOS Genetics | volume = 11 | issue = 4 | pages = e1005068 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25898006 | pmc = 4405460 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068 | quote = The origin and early dispersal history of the Turkic peoples is disputed, with candidates for their ancient homeland ranging from the Transcaspian steppe to Manchuria in Northeast Asia, }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Yunusbayev, genetic evidence points to an origin in the region near [[South Central Siberia|South Siberia]] and [[Mongolia]] as the &quot;Inner Asian Homeland&quot; of the Turkic ethnicity.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Valeev A, Litvinov S, Valiev R, Akhmetova V, Balanovska E, Balanovsky O, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Nymadawa P, Bahmanimehr A, Sahakyan H, Tambets K, Fedorova S, Barashkov N, Khidiyatova I, Mihailov E, Khusainova R, Damba L, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Osipova L, Voevoda M, Yepiskoposyan L, Kivisild T, Khusnutdinova E, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic legacy of the expansion of Turkic-speaking nomads across Eurasia | journal = PLOS Genetics | volume = 11 | issue = 4 | pages = e1005068 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25898006 | pmc = 4405460 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068 | quote = &quot;Thus, our study provides the first genetic evidence supporting one of the previously hypothesized IAHs to be near Mongolia and South Siberia.&quot; }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Authors Joo-Yup Lee and Shuntu Kuang analyzed 10 years of genetic research on Turkic people and compiled scholarly information about Turkic origins, and said that the early and medieval Turks were a heterogeneous group and that the Turkification of Eurasia was a result of language diffusion, not a migration of homogeneous population.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Lee |first1=Joo-Yup |first2=Shuntu |last2=Kuang | name-list-style = vanc |title=A Comparative Analysis of Chinese Historical Sources and y-dna Studies with Regard to the Early and Medieval Turkic Peoples |journal=Inner Asia |date=Oct 2017 |volume=19 |issue=2 |pages=197–239 |doi=10.1163/22105018-12340089}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;references group=&quot;note&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> <br /> Common Y-DNA haplogroups in Turkic peoples are [[Haplogroup N-M231]] (found with especially high frequency among Turkic peoples living in present-day [[Russia]]), [[Haplogroup C-M217]] (especially in [[Central Asia]] and, in particular, [[Kazakhstan]]), [[Haplogroup Q-M242]] (especially in [[Southern Siberia]] and among [[Turkmens]] and the Qangly [[Kazakh tribes|tribe of Kazakhs]]), and [[Haplogroup O-M175]] (especially among Turkic peoples living in present-day [[China]] and the Naiman [[Kazakh tribes|tribe of Kazakhs]]). Some groups also have [[Haplogroup R1b]] (notably frequent among the [[Teleuts]] and [[Kumandins]] of Southern Siberia, the [[Bashkirs]] of the Southern [[Ural Mountains|Ural]] region of [[Russia]], and the [[Kipchaks|Qypshaq]] [[Kazakh tribes|tribe of Kazakhs]]), [[Haplogroup R1a]] (notably frequent among the [[Kyrgyz people|Kyrgyz]], [[Altai people|Altaians]], and several other Turkic peoples living in present-day Russia), [[Haplogroup J-M172]] (especially frequent among [[Uyghurs]], [[Uzbeks]], [[Azerbaijanis]], and [[Turkish people]]), and [[Haplogroup D-M174]] (especially among [[Yugurs]], but also observed regularly with low frequency among [[Uyghurs]], [[Altai people|Southern Altaians]], [[Nogai people|Nogais]], [[Kazakhs]], and [[Uzbeks]]).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zerjal T, Wells RS, Yuldasheva N, Ruzibakiev R, Tyler-Smith C | title = A genetic landscape reshaped by recent events: Y-chromosomal insights into central Asia | language = en | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 71 | issue = 3 | pages = 466–82 | date = September 2002 | pmid = 12145751 | pmc = 419996 | doi = 10.1086/342096 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar2012&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Kumar |first1=Dhavendra | name-list-style = vanc |title=Genomics and Health in the Developing World |date=11 May 2012 |publisher=Oxford University Press |location=Oxford, England |isbn=978-0199705474 |pages=1265–1267 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Anatolian/European Turks ===<br /> The modern Turkic groups in [[Anatolia]] ([[Turkey]]) and [[Europe]] have less relation to East-Asian groups than their Central-Asian relatives. Various studies estimate about 15-30% East-Asian lineages in Anatolian/European Turks with the average at 21.7%.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Alkan C, Kavak P, Somel M, Gokcumen O, Ugurlu S, Saygi C, Dal E, Bugra K, Güngör T, Sahinalp SC, Özören N, Bekpen C | title = Whole genome sequencing of Turkish genomes reveals functional private alleles and impact of genetic interactions with Europe, Asia and Africa | journal = BMC Genomics | volume = 15 | issue = 1 | pages = 963 | date = November 2014 | pmid = 25376095 | pmc = 4236450 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2164-15-963 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> A study in 2015 found that &quot;''Previous genetic studies have generally used Turks as representatives of ancient populations from Turkey. Our results show that Turks are genetically shifted towards modern Central Asians, a pattern consistent with a history of mixture with populations from this region''&quot;. The authors found &quot;7.9% (±0.4) East Asian ancestry in Turks from admixture occurring 800 (±170) years ago.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|first1=Chris|last1=Tyler-Smith|first2=Pierre|last2=Zalloua|first3=Paolo|last3=Gasparini|first4=David|last4=Comas|title=Genetic evidence for an origin of the Armenians from Bronze Age mixing of multiple populations|journal=European Journal of Human Genetics|date=2016 |issn=1476-5438|pages=931–936|volume=24|issue=6|doi=10.1038/ejhg.2015.206|pmid=26486470|pmc=4820045|first5=Yali|last5=Xue|first6=Massimo|last6=Mezzavilla|first7=Marc|last7=Haber}}&lt;/ref&gt; A 2019 study found that Turkish people cluster with Southern and Mediterranean Europe populations along with groups in the northern part of Southwest Asia (such as the populations from [[Caucasus]], Northern Iraq, and Iranians).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pakstis |first1=Andrew J. |last2=Gurkan |first2=Cemal |last3=Dogan |first3=Mustafa |last4=Balkaya |first4=Hasan Emin |last5=Dogan |first5=Serkan |last6=Neophytou |first6=Pavlos I. |last7=Cherni |first7=Lotfi |last8=Boussetta |first8=Sami |last9=Khodjet-El-Khil |first9=Houssein |last10=Ben Ammar ElGaaied |first10=Amel |last11=Salvo |first11=Nina Mjølsnes |last12=Janssen |first12=Kirstin |last13=Olsen |first13=Gunn-Hege |last14=Hadi |first14=Sibte |last15=Almohammed |first15=Eida Khalaf |last16=Pereira |first16=Vania |last17=Truelsen |first17=Ditte Mikkelsen |last18=Bulbul |first18=Ozlem |last19=Soundararajan |first19=Usha |last20=Rajeevan |first20=Haseena |last21=Kidd |first21=Judith R. |last22=Kidd |first22=Kenneth K. |title=Genetic relationships of European, Mediterranean, and SW Asian populations using a panel of 55 AISNPs |journal=European Journal of Human Genetics |date=December 2019 |volume=27 |issue=12 |pages=1885–1893 |doi=10.1038/s41431-019-0466-6 |pmid=31285530 |pmc=6871633 |language=en |issn=1476-5438|doi-access=free }}&lt;/ref&gt; Another study found the [[Circassians]] are closest to the Turkish population among sampled European (French, Italian, Sardinian), Middle Eastern (Druze, Palestinian), and Central (Kyrgyz, Hazara, Uygur), South (Pakistani), and East Asian (Mongolian, Han) populations.&lt;ref name=Hodoglugil_et_al&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Hodoğlugil |first1=U. U. |last2=Mahley |first2=R. W. |doi=10.1111/j.1469-1809.2011.00701.x |title=Turkish Population Structure and Genetic Ancestry Reveal Relatedness among Eurasian Populations |journal=Annals of Human Genetics |volume=76 |issue=2 |pages=128–141 |year=2012 |pmid=22332727 |pmc=4904778}}&lt;/ref&gt; Another 2019 study found that Turkish people have the lowest [[Fixation index|Fst distances]] with Caucasus population group and Iranian-Syrian group, compared to East-Central European, European (including Northern and Eastern European), Sardinian, Roma, and Turkmen groups or populations. Caucasus group in the study included samples from &quot;Abkhazians, Adygey, Armenians, Balkars, Chechens, Georgians, Kumyks, Kurds, Lezgins, Nogays, and North Ossetia.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Banfai_et_al_2019&quot;&gt;{{cite journal| author=Bánfai Z, Melegh BI, Sümegi K, Hadzsiev K, Miseta A, Kásler M | display-authors=etal| title=Revealing the Genetic Impact of the Ottoman Occupation on Ethnic Groups of East-Central Europe and on the Roma Population of the Area. | journal=Front Genet | year= 2019 | volume= 10 | pages= 558 | pmid=31263480 | doi=10.3389/fgene.2019.00558 | pmc=6585392 | url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/eutils/elink.fcgi?dbfrom=pubmed&amp;tool=sumsearch.org/cite&amp;retmode=ref&amp;cmd=prlinks&amp;id=31263480 }} &lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study involving mitochondrial analysis of a [[Byzantine|Byzantine-era]] population, whose samples were gathered from excavations in the archaeological site of [[Sagalassos]], found that Sagalassos samples were closest to modern samples from &quot;Turkey, Crimea, Iran and Italy (Campania and Puglia), Cyprus and the Balkans (Bulgaria, Croatia and Greece).&quot;&lt;ref name=Ottoni_et_al&gt;{{Cite journal | last1 = Ottoni | first1 = C. | last2 = Ricaut | first2 = F. O. X. | last3 = Vanderheyden | first3 = N. | last4 = Brucato | first4 = N. | last5 = Waelkens | first5 = M. | last6 = Decorte | first6 = R. | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2010.230 | title = Mitochondrial analysis of a Byzantine population reveals the differential impact of multiple historical events in South Anatolia | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 19 | issue = 5 | pages = 571–576 | year = 2011 | pmid = 21224890| pmc =3083616 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Modern-day samples from the nearby town of Ağlasun showed that lineages of East Eurasian descent assigned to macro-haplogroup M were found in the modern samples from Ağlasun. This haplogroup is significantly more frequent in Ağlasun (15%) than in Byzantine Sagalassos, but the study concluded that there is &quot;no genetic discontinuity across two millennia in the region.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|title=Comparing maternal genetic variation across two millennia reveals the demographic history of an ancient human population in southwest Turkey|journal=Royal Society Open Science|volume=3|issue=2|pages=150250|doi=10.1098/rsos.150250|pmid = 26998313|pmc=4785964|year = 2016|last1 = Ottoni|first1 = Claudio|last2 = Rasteiro|first2 = Rita|last3 = Willet|first3 = Rinse|last4 = Claeys|first4 = Johan|last5 = Talloen|first5 = Peter|last6 = Van De Vijver|first6 = Katrien|last7 = Chikhi|first7 = Lounès|last8 = Poblome|first8 = Jeroen|last9 = Decorte|first9 = Ronny|bibcode = 2016RSOS....350250O}}&lt;/ref&gt; Another study concluded that the true Central Asian contributions to Anatolia was 13% for males and 22% for females (with wide ranges of [[Confidence interval|confidence intervals]]), and<br /> the language replacement in Turkey and Azerbaijan might not have been in accordance with the elite dominance model.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite thesis |last=Berkman |first=Ceren Caner |date=September 2006 |title=Comparative Analyses For The Central Asian Contribution To Anatolian Gene Pool With Reference To Balkans |type=PhD |url=http://etd.lib.metu.edu.tr/upload/12607764/index.pdf |access-date= 30 October 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Be that as it may, the most common male haplogroup in Anatolia is [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]]=24% - J2 (M172)&lt;ref name=&quot;cinnioglu 2004&quot; /&gt; J-M172 (or J2) may reflect the spread of Anatolian farmers.&lt;ref name=&quot;Semino_et_al_2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal| author=Semino O, Magri C, Benuzzi G, Lin AA, Al-Zahery N, Battaglia V | display-authors=etal| title=Origin, diffusion, and differentiation of Y-chromosome haplogroups E and J: inferences on the neolithization of Europe and later migratory events in the Mediterranean area. | journal=Am J Hum Genet | year= 2004 | volume= 74 | issue= 5 | pages= 1023-34 | pmid=15069642 | doi=10.1086/386295 | pmc=1181965 | url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/eutils/elink.fcgi?dbfrom=pubmed&amp;tool=sumsearch.org/cite&amp;retmode=ref&amp;cmd=prlinks&amp;id=15069642 }} &lt;/ref&gt; J2-M172 is &quot;mainly confined to the Mediterranean coastal areas, southeastern Europe and Anatolia&quot;, as well as West Asia and Central Asia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |doi=10.1038/jhg.2010.30|pmid=20414255|title=Y-chromosome distributions among populations in Northwest China identify significant contribution from Central Asian pastoralists and lesser influence of western Eurasians|journal=Journal of Human Genetics|volume=55|issue=5|pages=314–22|year=2010|last1=Shou|first1=Wei-Hua|last2=Qiao|first2=En-Fa|last3=Wei|first3=Chuan-Yu|last4=Dong|first4=Yong-Li|last5=Tan|first5=Si-Jie|last6=Shi|first6=Hong|last7=Tang|first7=Wen-Ru|last8=Xiao|first8=Chun-Jie|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Relationship to other Asian groups ==<br /> ===Central Asians===<br /> {{See also|History of Central Asia#Medieval}}<br /> The genetic evidence suggests that the [[Turkification]] of Central Asia was carried out by [[East Asian people|East Asian]] [[Dominant minority|dominant minorities]] migrating out of Mongolia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Damgaard PB, Marchi N, Rasmussen S, Peyrot M, Renaud G, Korneliussen T, Moreno-Mayar JV, Pedersen MW, Goldberg A, Usmanova E, Baimukhanov N, Loman V, Hedeager L, Pedersen AG, Nielsen K, Afanasiev G, Akmatov K, Aldashev A, Alpaslan A, Baimbetov G, Bazaliiskii VI, Beisenov A, Boldbaatar B, Boldgiv B, Dorzhu C, Ellingvag S, Erdenebaatar D, Dajani R, Dmitriev E, Evdokimov V, Frei KM, Gromov A, Goryachev A, Hakonarson H, Hegay T, Khachatryan Z, Khaskhanov R, Kitov E, Kolbina A, Kubatbek T, Kukushkin A, Kukushkin I, Lau N, Margaryan A, Merkyte I, Mertz IV, Mertz VK, Mijiddorj E, Moiyesev V, Mukhtarova G, Nurmukhanbetov B, Orozbekova Z, Panyushkina I, Pieta K, Smrčka V, Shevnina I, Logvin A, Sjögren KG, Štolcová T, Taravella AM, Tashbaeva K, Tkachev A, Tulegenov T, Voyakin D, Yepiskoposyan L, Undrakhbold S, Varfolomeev V, Weber A, Wilson Sayres MA, Kradin N, Allentoft ME, Orlando L, Nielsen R, Sikora M, Heyer E, Kristiansen K, Willerslev E | display-authors = 6 | title = 137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes | journal = Nature | volume = 557 | issue = 7705 | pages = 369–374 | date = May 2018 | pmid = 29743675 | doi = 10.1038/s41586-018-0094-2 | bibcode = 2018Natur.557..369D | s2cid = 13670282 | url = https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0094-2 }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to a recent study, the Turkic Central Asian populations, such as Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, and Turkmens share more of their gene pool with various East Asian and Siberian populations than with West Asian or European populations. The study further suggests that both migration and linguistic assimilation helped to spread the Turkic languages in Eurasia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Valeev A, Litvinov S, Valiev R, Akhmetova V, Balanovska E, Balanovsky O, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Nymadawa P, Bahmanimehr A, Sahakyan H, Tambets K, Fedorova S, Barashkov N, Khidiyatova I, Mihailov E, Khusainova R, Damba L, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Osipova L, Voevoda M, Yepiskoposyan L, Kivisild T, Khusnutdinova E, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic legacy of the expansion of Turkic-speaking nomads across Eurasia | journal = PLOS Genetics | volume = 11 | issue = 4 | pages = e1005068 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25898006 | pmc = 4405460 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===North Asians===<br /> {{Expand section|date=August 2020}}<br /> <br /> ===South Asians===<br /> {{Main|Genetic history of South Asia}}<br /> According to a genetic research (2015) including linguistic analyses, suggests an [[East Asia|East Asian]] origin for proto-Austroasiatic groups, which first migrated to Southeast Asia and later into India.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Ness, there are three broad theories on the origins of the Austroasiatic speakers, namely northeastern India, central or southern China, or southeast Asia.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}} Multiple researches indicate that the Austroasiatic populations in India are derived from (mostly male dominated) migrations from southeast Asia during the Holocene.{{sfn|van Driem|2007}}{{sfn|Chaubey|2011}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot; /&gt;{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;!--** START OF NOTE **--&gt;{{refn|&quot;ASI-AAA&quot;|Nevertheless, according to Basu et al. (2016), the AAA were early settlers in India, related to the ASI: &quot;The absence of significant resemblance with any of the neighboring populations is indicative of the ASI and the AAA being early settlers in India, possibly arriving on the “southern exit” wave out of Africa. Differentiation between the ASI and the AAA possibly took place after their arrival in India (ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population in SI Appendix, Fig. S2).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}}}&lt;!--** END OF NOTE **--&gt; According to Van Driem (2007), &quot;...the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot;{{sfn|van Driem|2007|p=7}}<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey et al. (2011), &quot;Austroasiatic speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;{{sfn|Chaubey|2011}} According to Zhang et al. (2015), Austroasiatic (male) migrations from southeast Asia into India took place after the lates Glacial maximum, circa 10,000 years ago.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Arunkumar et al. (2015), Y-chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, which is typical for Austrosiatic speaking peoples, clearly decreases from Laos to east India, with &quot;a serial decrease in expansion time from east to west,&quot; namely &quot;5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India.&quot; This suggests &quot;a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first = Miguel | last = Vilar | name-list-style = vanc | date = 2015 | url = http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ | title = DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India | work = National Geographic }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Riccio et al. (2011), the Munda people are likely descended from Austroasiatic migrants from southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Riccio ME, Nunes JM, Rahal M, Kervaire B, Tiercy JM, Sanchez-Mazas A | title = The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study | journal = Human Biology | volume = 83 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–35 | date = June 2011 | pmid = 21740156 | doi = 10.3378/027.083.0306 | s2cid = 39428816 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Alejandro | last1 = Gutman | first2 = Beatriz | last2 = Avanzati | name-list-style = vanc | work = The Language Gulper | url = http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Austroasiatic.html | title = Austroasiatic Languages }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Ness, the Khasi probably migrated into India in the first millennium BCE.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}}<br /> <br /> ===Southeast Asians===<br /> A 2020 genetic study about Southeast Asian populations in 2020 (Liu et al. 2020), found that mostly all Southeast Asians are closely related to East Asians and have mostly &quot;East Asian-related&quot; ancestry. [[Austronesian peoples|Austronesian]] and [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic speaking populations]] of [[Southeast Asia]] were found to have mostly East Asian-related ancestry (89% to 96%) and minor [[Onge people|Onge-related]] ancestry (1% to 11%). Additionally they found evidence for ancient gene flow from East Asian-related groups into the [[Andamanese|Andamanese people]]. Andamanese (Onge) were found to have about 30% East Asian-related ancestry next to their original Negrito ancestry. [[Taiwanese indigenous peoples]] had on average 99% East Asian-related ancestry. [[Kra-Dai]] speaking populations had, similar to the Taiwanese indigenous peoples, nearly exclusively East Asian-related ancestry.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Liu D, Duong NT, Ton ND, Van Phong N, Pakendorf B, Van Hai N, Stoneking M | title = Extensive ethnolinguistic diversity in Vietnam reflects multiple sources of genetic diversity | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | date = April 2020 | volume = 37 | issue = 9 | pages = 2503–2519 | pmid = 32344428 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msaa099 | url = https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msaa099/5821431 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Notes ==<br /> {{reflist|group=note}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> <br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = He G, Wang Z, Guo J, Wang M, Zou X, Tang R, Liu J, Zhang H, Li Y, Hu R, Wei LH, Chen G, Wang CC, Hou Y | display-authors = 6 | title = Inferring the population history of Tai-Kadai-speaking people and southernmost Han Chinese on Hainan Island by genome-wide array genotyping | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 28 | issue = 8 | pages = 1111–1123 | date = August 2020 | pmid = 32123326 | doi = 10.1038/s41431-020-0599-7 | url = https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339632918 | s2cid = 211729663 }}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> {{Human genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:East Asian people]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetic_history_of_East_Asians&diff=999421712 Genetic history of East Asians 2021-01-10T02:21:56Z <p>Ilber8000: Updated South Asia to related topic - Austroasiatic Munda and Northeast India</p> <hr /> <div>{{short description|Genetic history of East Asian peoples}}<br /> {{pp-pc|small=yes}}<br /> [[File:Y-DNA haplogroup migration map in East Asia.png|thumb|300px|right|Y-DNA haplogroup (paternal lineages) migration in East Asia.]]<br /> The article '''genetic history of East Asians''' explains the genetic makeup of the [[East Asians|East Asian peoples]].<br /> <br /> == Xiongnu people (ancient) ==<br /> The [[Xiongnu]], possibly a [[Turkic peoples|Turkic]], [[Iranian peoples|Iranian]], [[Mongolic languages|Mongolic]], [[Yenisseian]] or multi-ethnic people, were a [[confederation]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://global.britannica.com/topic/Xiongnu|title=Xiongnu People|website=britannica.com|publisher=Encyclopædia Britannica|access-date=25 July 2015}}&lt;/ref&gt; of [[Nomads|nomadic peoples]] who, according to ancient [[Chinese historiography|Chinese sources]], inhabited the eastern [[Asian Steppe]] from the 3rd century BC to the late 1st century AD. [[Twenty-Four Histories|Chinese sources]] report that [[Modu Chanyu]], the supreme leader after 209&amp;nbsp;BC, founded the Xiongnu Empire.&lt;ref&gt;di Cosmo 2004: 186&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A majority (89%) of the Xiongnu sequences can be classified as belonging to Asian [[haplogroup]]s, and nearly 11% belong to European haplogroups.&lt;ref name=&quot;Keyser-Tracqui_et_al&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Keyser-Tracqui C, Crubézy E, Ludes B | title = Nuclear and mitochondrial DNA analysis of a 2,000-year-old necropolis in the Egyin Gol Valley of Mongolia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 73 | issue = 2 | pages = 247–60 | date = August 2003 | pmid = 12858290 | pmc = 1180365 | doi = 10.1086/377005 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> Over the past decade, Chinese archaeologists have published several reviews regarding the results of excavations in Xinjiang. They imply the genetic composition of Xiongnu's supreme ruling class. Particularly interesting are the tombs in the cemetery at Heigouliang, Xinjiang (the Black Gouliang cemetery, also known as the summer palace of the Xiongnu king), east of the Barkol basin, near the city of [[Hami City|Hami]]. By typing results of DNA samples during the excavation of one of the tombs, it was determined that of the 12 men: 6 Q1a* (not Q1a1-M120, not Q1a1b-M25, not Q1a2-M3), 4 Q1b-M378, 2 Q* (not Q1a, not Q1b: unable to determine subclades):&lt;ref&gt;Lihongjie, Y-Chromosome Genetic Diversity of the Ancient North Chinese populations, Jilin University-China (2012)&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In a paper (Lihongjie 2012), the author analyzed the Y-DNAs of the ancient male samples from the 2nd or 1st century BCE cemetery at [[Heigouliang]] in Xinjiang – which is also believed to be the site of a summer palace for Xiongnu kings – which is east of the Barkol basin and near the city of Hami. The Y-DNA of 12 men excavated from the site belonged to Q-MEH2 (Q1a) or Q-M378 (Q1b). The Q-M378 men among them were regarded as hosts of the tombs; half of the Q-MEH2 men appeared to be hosts and the other half as sacrificial victims.<br /> <br /> == Xianbei people (ancient) ==<br /> The origins of the [[Xianbei]] are unclear. Chinese anthropologist Zhu Hong and Zhang Quanchao studied Xianbei crania from several sites of Inner Mongolia and noticed that anthropological features of studied Xianbei crania show that the racial type is closely related to the modern East-Asian Mongoloids, and some physical characteristics of those skulls are closer to modern [[Mongols]], [[Manchu people|Manchu]] and [[Han Chinese]].&lt;ref&gt;Anthropology of Archaeological Populations from East- and Central-Asia*[http://user.dankook.ac.kr/~oriental/Journal/pdf_new/49/11.pdf] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130729140858/http://user.dankook.ac.kr/~oriental/Journal/pdf_new/49/11.pdf |date=2013-07-29 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Maternal lineages ===<br /> <br /> Genetic studies published in 2006 and 2015 revealed that the [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|mitochondrial haplogroups]] of Xianbei remains were of [[East Asian]] origin. According to Zhou (2006) the haplogroup frequencies of the Tuoba Xianbei were 43.75% [[Haplogroup D (mtDNA)|haplogroup D]], 31.25% [[Haplogroup C (mtDNA)|haplogroup C]], 12.5% [[Haplogroup B (mtDNA)|haplogroup B]], 6.25% [[Haplogroup A (mtDNA)|haplogroup A]] and 6.25% &quot;other.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Changchun Y, Li X, Xiaolei Z, Hui Z, Hong Z | title = Genetic analysis on Tuoba Xianbei remains excavated from Qilang Mountain Cemetery in Qahar Right Wing Middle Banner of Inner Mongolia | journal = FEBS Letters | volume = 580 | issue = 26 | pages = 6242–6 | date = November 2006 | pmid = 17070809 | doi = 10.1016/j.febslet.2006.10.030 | s2cid = 19492267 | ref = Zhou2006 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Zhou (2014) obtained [[mitochondrial DNA]] analysis from 17 Tuoba Xianbei, which indicated that these specimens were, similarly, completely East Asian in their maternal origins, belonging to haplogroups D, C, B, A and [[Haplogroup G (mtDNA)|haplogroup G]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhou H |title=Genetic analyses of Xianbei populations about 1,500–1,800 years old |journal=Human Genetics |date=March 2014 |volume=50 |issue=3 |pages=308–314 |ref=Zhou2014|doi=10.1134/S1022795414030119 |s2cid=18809679 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The research also found a relation between Xianbei individuals with modern [[Oroqen people|Oroqen]], [[Evenks|Ewenki]] and [[Outer Mongolia]]n people. Especially [[Tungusic peoples|Tungusic]] Oroqen show close relation to Xianbei.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Changchun Y, Li X, Xiaolei Z, Hui Z, Hong Z | title = Genetic analysis on Tuoba Xianbei remains excavated from Qilang Mountain Cemetery in Qahar Right Wing Middle Banner of Inner Mongolia | journal = FEBS Letters | volume = 580 | issue = 26 | pages = 6242–6 | date = November 2006 | pmid = 17070809 | doi = 10.1016/j.febslet.2006.10.030 | s2cid = 19492267 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Han Chinese==<br /> A 2018 study calculated pairwise F&lt;sub&gt;ST&lt;/sub&gt; (a measure of genetic difference) based on genome-wide SNPs, among the Han Chinese (Northern Han from Beijing and Southern Han from Hunan and Fujian provinces), Japanese and Korean populations sampled. It found that the smallest F&lt;sub&gt;ST&lt;/sub&gt; value was between North Han Chinese (CHB) and South Han Chinese (CHS) (F&lt;sub&gt;ST[CHB-CHS]&lt;/sub&gt; = 0.0014), while CHB and Korean (KOR) (F&lt;sub&gt;ST[CHB-KOR]&lt;/sub&gt; = 0.0026) and between KOR and Japanese (JPT) (F&lt;sub&gt;ST[JPT-KOR]&lt;/sub&gt; = 0.0033). Generally, pairwise F&lt;sub&gt;ST&lt;/sub&gt; between Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean (0.0026~ 0.0090) are greater than that within Han Chinese (0.0014). These results suggested Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean are different in terms of genetic make-up, and the difference among the three groups are much larger than that between northern and southern Han Chinese.&lt;ref name = &quot;Wang_2018&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wang Y, Lu D, Chung YJ, Xu S | title = Genetic structure, divergence and admixture of Han Chinese, Japanese and Korean populations | journal = Hereditas | volume = 155 | issue = 1 | pages = 19 | date = 2018-04-06 | pmid = 29636655 | pmc = 5889524 | doi = 10.1186/s41065-018-0057-5 | lay-url = tp://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-biology/2018/04/10/common-ancestor-of-han-chinese-japanese-and-koreans-dated-to-3000-3600-years-ago/ | lay-source = blogs.biomedcentral.com }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Another study shows that the northern and southern Han Chinese are genetically closest to each other and it finds that the genetic characteristics of present-day northern Han Chinese was already formed as early as three-thousand years ago in the [[Zhongyuan|Central Plain area]].&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Zhao YB, Zhang Y, Zhang QC, Li HJ, Cui YQ, Xu Z, Jin L, Zhou H, Zhu H|date=2015|title=Ancient DNA reveals that the genetic structure of the northern Han Chinese was shaped prior to 3,000 years ago|journal=PLOS ONE|volume=10|issue=5|pages=e0125676|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0125676|pmc=4418768|pmid=25938511|bibcode=2015PLoSO..1025676Z}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A recent genetic study on the remains of people (~4000 years BP) from the Mogou site in the [[Gansu]]-[[Qinghai]] (or Ganqing) region of China revealed more information on the genetic contributions of these ancient [[Qiang (historical people)|Di-Qiang]] people to the [[Huaxia|ancestors]] of the Northern Han. It was deduced that 3300–3800 years ago some Mogou people had merged into the ancestral Han population, resulting in the Mogou people being similar to some northern Han in sharing up to ~33% paternal (O3a) and ~70% maternal (D, A, F, M10) haplogroups. The mixture rate was possibly 13-18%.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Li J, Zeng W, Zhang Y, Ko AM, Li C, Zhu H, Fu Q, Zhou H|date=December 2017|title=Ancient DNA reveals genetic connections between early Di-Qiang and Han Chinese|journal=BMC Evolutionary Biology|volume=17|issue=1|pages=239|doi=10.1186/s12862-017-1082-0|pmc=5716020|pmid=29202706}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The estimated contribution of northern Han to southern Han is substantial in both paternal and maternal lineages and a geographic [[cline (biology)|cline]] exists for mtDNA. As a result, the northern Han are the primary contributors to the gene pool of the southern Han. However, it is noteworthy that the expansion process was dominated by males, as is shown by a greater contribution to the Y-chromosome than the mtDNA from northern Han to southern Han. These genetic observations are in line with historical records of continuous and large migratory waves of northern China inhabitants escaping warfare and famine, to southern China. Aside from these large migratory waves, other smaller southward migrations occurred during almost all periods in the past two millennia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot; /&gt; A study by the Chinese Academy of Sciences into the gene frequency data of Han subpopulations and ethnic minorities in China, showed that Han subpopulations in different regions are also genetically quite close to the local ethnic minorities, meaning that in many cases, blood of ethnic minorities had mixed into Han, while at the same time, the blood of Han had also mixed into the local ethnic minorities.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Du R, Xiao C, Cavalli-Sforza LL|date=December 1997|title=Genetic distances between Chinese populations calculated on gene frequencies of 38 loci|journal=Science in China Series C: Life Sciences|volume=40|issue=6|pages=613–21|doi=10.1007/BF02882691|pmid=18726285|s2cid=1924085}}&lt;/ref&gt; A study on Armenian admixture in varied populations found 3.9% Armenian-like DNA in some northern Chinese Han.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com/|title=World ancestry|website=admixturemap.paintmychromosomes.com|access-date=2016-02-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A recent, and to date the most extensive, genome-wide association study of the Han population, shows that geographic-genetic stratification from north to south has occurred and centrally placed populations act as the conduit for outlying ones.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|display-authors=9|vauthors=Chen J, Zheng H, Bei JX, Sun L, Jia WH, Li T, Zhang F, Seielstad M, Zeng YX, Zhang X, Liu J|date=December 2009|title=Genetic structure of the Han Chinese population revealed by genome-wide SNP variation|journal=American Journal of Human Genetics|volume=85|issue=6|pages=775–85|doi=10.1016/j.ajhg.2009.10.016|pmc=2790583|pmid=19944401}}&lt;/ref&gt; Ultimately, with the exception in some [[Ethnolinguistics|ethnolinguistic]] branches of the Han Chinese, such as [[Pinghua]], there is &quot;coherent genetic structure&quot; (homogeneity)&lt;!-- &quot;coherent genetic structure&quot; doesn't seem to have a standard, formal definition--&gt; in all Han Chinese.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Gan RJ, Pan SL, Mustavich LF, Qin ZD, Cai XY, Qian J, Liu CW, Peng JH, Li SL, Xu JS, Jin L, Li H|year=2008|title=Pinghua population as an exception of Han Chinese's coherent genetic structure|journal=Journal of Human Genetics|volume=53|issue=4|pages=303–13|doi=10.1007/s10038-008-0250-x|pmid=18270655|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> While [[Northern Vietnam]] [[Kinh]] people assimilated Han Chinese immigrants into their population, have a [[sinicized]] culture and carry the [[patrilineal]] Han Chinese O-M7 [[haplogroup]], [[Cham people]] carry the patrilineal R-M17 haplogroup of [[South Asian]] Indian origin from South Asian merchants spreading Hinduism to Champa and marrying Cham females since Chams have no [[matrilineal]] South Asian [[mtdna]] and this fits with the [[matrilocal]] structure of Cham families.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = He JD, Peng MS, Quang HH, Dang KP, Trieu AV, Wu SF, Jin JQ, Murphy RW, Yao YG, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = Patrilineal perspective on the Austronesian diffusion in Mainland Southeast Asia | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 7 | issue = 5 | pages = e36437 | date = May 7, 2012 | pmid = 22586471 | pmc = 3346718 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0036437 | veditors = Kayser M | bibcode = 2012PLoSO...736437H }}&lt;/ref&gt; Analysis of Vietnamese Kinh people's genetics show that within the last 800 years there was mixture between a [[Malays (ethnic group)|Malay]] like southern Asian and a Chinese ancestral component that happens to fit the time period in which Kinh expanded south from their [[Red river delta]] homeland in [[Nam tiến]] which also matches the event 700 years ago when the Cham population suffered massive losses. Japanese and Middle Eastern merchants as well as other foreigners have travelled to the coast of Vietnam for more than 2,000 years and left genetic traces among Vietnamese due to its location on the Silk Roads and commercial paths. Vietnamese ethnicities descend from groups that migrated to SEA islands and the SEA mainland from the region in China south of the river Yangtze.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Pischedda S, Barral-Arca R, Gómez-Carballa A, Pardo-Seco J, Catelli ML, Álvarez-Iglesias V, Cárdenas JM, Nguyen ND, Ha HH, Le AT, Martinón-Torres F, Vullo C, Salas A | display-authors = 6 | title = Phylogeographic and genome-wide investigations of Vietnam ethnic groups reveal signatures of complex historical demographic movements | journal = Scientific Reports | volume = 7 | issue = 1 | pages = 12630 | date = October 2017 | pmid = 28974757 | pmc = 5626762 | doi = 10.1038/s41598-017-12813-6 | bibcode = 2017NatSR...712630P | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; With the exception of Cham who are Austronesian speaking and Mang who are Austroasiatic speaking, the southern Han Chinese and all other ethnic groups in Vietnam share ancestry.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Liu D, Duong NT, Ton ND, Van Phong N, Pakendorf B, Van Hai N, Stoneking M | title = Extensive ethnolinguistic diversity in Vietnam reflects multiple sources of genetic diversity | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | date = April 2020 | volume = 37 | issue = 9 | pages = 2503–2519 | pmid = 32344428 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msaa099 | pmc = 7475039 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> Y-chromosome [[haplogroup O-M122|haplogroup O2-M122]] is a common DNA marker in Han Chinese, as it appeared in China in prehistoric times. It is found in more than 50% of Chinese males, and ranging up to over 80% in certain regional subgroups of the Han ethnicity.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hurles2005&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hurles ME, Sykes BC, Jobling MA, Forster P | title = The dual origin of the Malagasy in Island Southeast Asia and East Africa: evidence from maternal and paternal lineages | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 76 | issue = 5 | pages = 894–901 | date = May 2005 | pmid = 15793703 | pmc = 1199379 | doi = 10.1086/430051 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Other Y-DNA haplogroups that have been found with notable frequency in samples of Han Chinese include [[haplogroup O-M119#O-P203|O-P203]] (15/165 = 9.1%, 47/361 = 13.0%), [[haplogroup C-M217|C-M217]] (10/168 = 6.0%, 27/361 = 7.5%, 187/1730 = 10.8%, 20/166 = 12.0%), [[haplogroup N-M231|N-M231]] (6/166 = 3.6%, 18/361 = 5.0%, 117/1729 = 6.8%, 17/165 = 10.3%), [[haplogroup O-P31|O-M268(xM95, M176)]] (54/1147 = 4.7%,&lt;ref name = &quot;Lu2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Lu C, Zhang J, Li Y, Xia Y, Zhang F, Wu B, Wu W, Ji G, Gu A, Wang S, Jin L, Wang X | title = The b2/b3 subdeletion shows higher risk of spermatogenic failure and higher frequency of complete AZFc deletion than the gr/gr subdeletion in a Chinese population | journal = Human Molecular Genetics | volume = 18 | issue = 6 | pages = 1122–30 | date = March 2009 | pmid = 19088127 | doi = 10.1093/hmg/ddn427 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; 8/168 = 4.8%, 23/361 = 6.4%, 12/166 = 7.2%), and [[haplogroup Q-M242|Q-M242]] (2/168 = 1.2%, 49/1729 = 2.8%, 12/361 = 3.3%, 48/1147 = 4.2%&lt;ref name = &quot;Lu2009&quot; /&gt;). However, the [[mitochondrial DNA]] (mtDNA) of Han Chinese increases in diversity as one looks from northern to southern China, which suggests that male migrants from northern China married with women from local peoples after arriving in modern-day Guangdong, Fujian, and other regions of southern China.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wen B, Li H, Lu D, Song X, Zhang F, He Y, Li F, Gao Y, Mao X, Zhang L, Qian J, Tan J, Jin J, Huang W, Deka R, Su B, Chakraborty R, Jin L | title = Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han culture | journal = Nature | volume = 431 | issue = 7006 | pages = 302–5 | date = September 2004 | pmid = 15372031 | doi = 10.1038/nature02878 | bibcode = 2004Natur.431..302W | s2cid = 4301581 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;EJH&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Xue F, Wang Y, Xu S, Zhang F, Wen B, Wu X, Lu M, Deka R, Qian J, Jin L | title = A spatial analysis of genetic structure of human populations in China reveals distinct difference between maternal and paternal lineages | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 16 | issue = 6 | pages = 705–17 | date = June 2008 | pmid = 18212820 | doi = 10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201998 | display-authors = 9 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; Despite this, tests comparing the genetic profiles of northern Han, southern Han and southern natives determined that haplogroups O1b-M110, O2a1-M88 and O3d-M7, which are prevalent in southern natives, were only observed in some southern Han (4% on average), but not in northern Han. Therefore, this proves&lt;!--suggests???--&gt; that the male contribution of southern natives in southern Han is limited, assuming that the frequency distribution of Y lineages in southern natives represents that before the expansion of Han culture that started two-thousand years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;gene&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wen B, Li H, Lu D, Song X, Zhang F, He Y, Li F, Gao Y, Mao X, Zhang L, Qian J, Tan J, Jin J, Huang W, Deka R, Su B, Chakraborty R, Jin L | title = Genetic evidence supports demic diffusion of Han culture | journal = Nature | volume = 431 | issue = 7006 | pages = 302–5 | date = September 2004 | pmid = 15372031 | doi = 10.1038/nature02878 | bibcode = 2004Natur.431..302W | s2cid = 4301581 | display-authors = 9 }}&lt;/ref&gt; In contrast, there are consistent strong genetic similarities in the Y chromosome haplogroup distribution between the southern and northern Chinese population, and the result of [[principal component analysis]] indicates almost all Han populations form a tight cluster in their Y chromosome. However, other research has also shown that the paternal lineages Y-DNA O-M119,&lt;ref name=&quot;Li et al (2008)&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Li H, Wen B, Chen SJ, Su B, Pramoonjago P, Liu Y, Pan S, Qin Z, Liu W, Cheng X, Yang N, Li X, Tran D, Lu D, Hsu MT, Deka R, Marzuki S, Tan CC, Jin L | title = Paternal genetic affinity between Western Austronesians and Daic populations | journal = BMC Evolutionary Biology | volume = 8 | issue = 1 | pages = 146 | date = May 2008 | pmid = 18482451 | pmc = 2408594 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2148-8-146 }}&lt;/ref&gt; O-P201,&lt;ref name=&quot;Karafet et al (2010)&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Karafet TM, Hallmark B, Cox MP, Sudoyo H, Downey S, Lansing JS, Hammer MF | title = Major east-west division underlies Y chromosome stratification across Indonesia | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 27 | issue = 8 | pages = 1833–44 | date = August 2010 | pmid = 20207712 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq063 }}&lt;/ref&gt; O-P203&lt;ref name=&quot;Karafet et al (2010)&quot;/&gt; and O-M95&lt;ref name=&quot;Karafet et al 2005&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Edén CS, Hagberg L, Hanson LA, Korhonen T, Leffler H, Olling S | title = Adhesion of Escherichia coli in urinary tract infection | journal = Ciba Foundation Symposium | volume = 80 | pages = 161–87 | year = 2008 | pmid = 6114819 | doi = 10.1002/9780470720639.ch11 | isbn = 9780470720639 | series = Novartis Foundation Symposia }}&lt;/ref&gt; are found in both southern Han Chinese and South Chinese minorities, but more commonly in the latter. In fact, these paternal markers are in turn less frequent in northern Han Chinese.&lt;ref name=&quot;Han Chinese Y-DNA by region&quot;&gt;{{cite web|last1=Wang|first1=Xiadong | name-list-style = vanc |title=Han Chinese dialect area by the distribution of the Y chromosome|url=http://blog.ifeng.com/article/31381043.html|website=Blog.ifeng.com|publisher=Wang Xiadong|access-date=10 June 2014|url-status=dead|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140714221614/http://blog.ifeng.com/article/31381043.html|archive-date=14 July 2014}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Yan et al (2011)&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yan S, Wang CC, Li H, Li SL, Jin L | title = An updated tree of Y-chromosome Haplogroup O and revised phylogenetic positions of mutations P164 and PK4 | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 19 | issue = 9 | pages = 1013–5 | date = September 2011 | pmid = 21505448 | pmc = 3179364 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2011.64 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Maternal lineages ===<br /> The mitochondrial-DNA haplogroups of the Han Chinese can be classified into the northern East Asian-dominating haplogroups, including A, C, D, G, M8, M9, and Z, and the southern East Asian-dominating haplogroups, including B, F, M7, N*, and R.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot; /&gt; These haplogroups account for 52.7% and 33.85% of those in the Northern Han, respectively. Among these haplogroups, D, B, F, and A were predominant in the Northern Han, with frequencies of 25.77%, 11.54%, 11.54%, and 8.08%, respectively. However, in the Southern Han, the northern and southern East Asian-dominating haplogroups accounted for 35.62% and 51.91%, respectively. The frequencies of haplogroups D, B, F, and A reached 15.68%, 20.85%, 16.29%, and 5.63%, respectively.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yao YG, Kong QP, Bandelt HJ, Kivisild T, Zhang YP | title = Phylogeographic differentiation of mitochondrial DNA in Han Chinese | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 70 | issue = 3 | pages = 635–51 | date = March 2002 | pmid = 11836649 | pmc = 384943 | doi = 10.1086/338999 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Tolk HV, Parik J, Wang Y, Papiha SS, Bandelt HJ, Villems R | title = The emerging limbs and twigs of the East Asian mtDNA tree | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 19 | issue = 10 | pages = 1737–51 | date = October 2002 | pmid = 12270900 | doi = 10.1093/oxfordjournals.molbev.a003996 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yao YG, Kong QP, Man XY, Bandelt HJ, Zhang YP | title = Reconstructing the evolutionary history of China: a caveat about inferences drawn from ancient DNA | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 20 | issue = 2 | pages = 214–9 | date = February 2003 | pmid = 12598688 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msg026 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kong QP, Sun C, Wang HW, Zhao M, Wang WZ, Zhong L, Hao XD, Pan H, Wang SY, Cheng YT, Zhu CL, Wu SF, Liu LN, Jin JQ, Yao YG, Zhang YP | title = Large-scale mtDNA screening reveals a surprising matrilineal complexity in east Asia and its implications to the peopling of the region | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 28 | issue = 1 | pages = 513–22 | date = January 2011 | pmid = 20713468 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq219 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Manchus and Daurs==<br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> [[Haplogroup C-M217|Haplogroup C3b2b1*-M401(xF5483)]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wei LH, Yan S, Yu G, Huang YZ, Yao DL, Li SL, Jin L, Li H | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic trail for the early migrations of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 62 | issue = 3 | pages = 407–411 | date = March 2017 | pmid = 27853133 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2016.142 | s2cid = 7685248 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yan S, Tachibana H, Wei LH, Yu G, Wen SQ, Wang CC | title = Y chromosome of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 60 | issue = 6 | pages = 295–8 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25833470 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2015.28 | arxiv = 1412.6274 | s2cid = 7505563 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;DidYouKnowDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite web |title=Did you know DNA was used to uncover the origin of the House of Aisin Gioro? |url=https://www.didyouknowdna.com/famous-dna/aisin-gioro-dna/ |website=Did You Know DNA...|access-date=5 November 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt; has been identified as a possible marker of the Aisin Gioro and is found in ten different ethnic minorities in northern China, but completely absent from Han Chinese.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Xue Y, Zerjal T, Bao W, Zhu S, Lim SK, Shu Q, Xu J, Du R, Fu S, Li P, Yang H, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = Recent spread of a Y-chromosomal lineage in northern China and Mongolia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 77 | issue = 6 | pages = 1112–6 | date = December 2005 | pmid = 16380921 | pmc = 1285168 | doi = 10.1086/498583 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.genebase.com/learning/article/23 |title=Asian Ancestry based on Studies of Y-DNA Variation: Part 3. Recent demographics and ancestry of the male East Asians – Empires and Dynasties |url-status=dead |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131125053101/http://www.genebase.com/learning/article/23 |archive-date=November 25, 2013 |work=Genebase Tutorials }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;DidYouKnowDNA&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Genetic testing also showed that the haplogroup C3b1a3a2-F8951 of the Aisin Gioro family came to southeastern Manchuria after migrating from their place of origin in the Amur river's middle reaches, originating from ancestors related to [[Daur people|Daur]]s in the [[Transbaikal]] area. The [[Tungusic languages|Tungusic]] speaking peoples mostly have C3c-M48 as their subclade of C3 which drastically differs from the C3b1a3a2-F8951 haplogroup of the Aisin Gioro which originates from Mongolic speaking populations like the Daur. Jurchen (Manchus) are a Tungusic people. The Mongol Genghis Khan's haplogroup C3b1a3a1-F3796 (C3*-Star Cluster) is a fraternal &quot;brother&quot; branch of C3b1a3a2-F8951 haplogroup of the Aisin Gioro.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wei LH, Yan S, Yu G, Huang YZ, Yao DL, Li SL, Jin L, Li H | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic trail for the early migrations of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 62 | issue = 3 | pages = 407–411 | date = March 2017 | pmid = 27853133 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2016.142 | url = https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310477623 | publisher = The Japan Society of Human Genetics | s2cid = 7685248 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A genetic test was conducted on seven men who claimed Aisin Gioro descent with three of them showing documented genealogical information of all their ancestors up to Nurhaci. Three of them turned out to share the C3b2b1*-M401(xF5483) haplogroup, out of them, two of them were the ones who provided their documented family trees. The other four tested were unrelated.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yan S, Tachibana H, Wei LH, Yu G, Wen SQ, Wang CC | title = Y chromosome of Aisin Gioro, the imperial house of the Qing dynasty | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 60 | issue = 6 | pages = 295–8 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25833470 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2015.28 | url = https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269876995 | publisher = Nature Publishing Group on behalf of the Japan Society of Human Genetics (Japan) | arxiv = 1412.6274 | s2cid = 7505563 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The Daur Ao clan carries the unique haplogroup subclade C2b1a3a2-F8951, the same haplogroup as Aisin Gioro and both Ao and Aisin Gioro only diverged merely a couple of centuries ago from a shared common ancestor. Other members of the Ao clan carry haplogroups like N1c-M178, C2a1b-F845, C2b1a3a1-F3796 and C2b1a2-M48. People from northeast China, the Daur Ao clan and Aisin Gioro clan are the main carriers of haplogroup C2b1a3a2-F8951. The Mongolic C2*-Star Cluster (C2b1a3a1-F3796) haplogroup is a fraternal branch to Aisin Gioro's C2b1a3a2-F8951 haplogroup.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wang CZ, Wei LH, Wang LX, Wen SQ, Yu XE, Shi MS, Li H | title = Relating Clans Ao and Aisin Gioro from northeast China by whole Y-chromosome sequencing | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 64 | issue = 8 | pages = 775–780 | date = August 2019 | pmid = 31148597 | doi = 10.1038/s10038-019-0622-4 | publisher = Japan Society of Human Genetics | s2cid = 171094135 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Japanese==<br /> {{main|Genetic and anthropometric studies on Japanese people}}<br /> <br /> === Jōmon people ===<br /> {{Main|Jōmon people}}<br /> Jōmon people is the generic name of people who lived in the [[Japanese archipelago]] during the [[Jōmon period]]. Today most Japanese historians believe that the Jomon people were not one homogeneous people but were at least two or three distinct groups.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Miura | last1 = Sukeyuki | first2 = Shinoda | last2 = Kenichi | name-list-style = vanc | title = The Origins of Japanese Culture Uncovered Using DNA ― What happens when we cut into the world of the Kojiki myths using the latest science | url= https://sp.japanpolicyforum.jp/archives/culture/pt20160603213440.html |date=2016-06-03|website=Discuss Japan-Japan Foreign Policy Forum|access-date=2019-01-21 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Recent full genome analyses in 2020 by Boer et al. 2020 and Yang et al. 2020, reveals some further information regarding the origin of the Jōmon peoples. They were found to have largely formed from a Paleolithic Siberian population and an East Asian related population.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yang|first=Melinda A.|last2=Fan|first2=Xuechun|last3=Sun|first3=Bo|last4=Chen|first4=Chungyu|last5=Lang|first5=Jianfeng|last6=Ko|first6=Ying-Chin|last7=Tsang|first7=Cheng-hwa|last8=Chiu|first8=Hunglin|last9=Wang|first9=Tianyi|last10=Bao|first10=Qingchuan|last11=Wu|first11=Xiaohong|date=2020-07-17|title=Ancient DNA indicates human population shifts and admixture in northern and southern China|url=https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6501/282|journal=Science|language=en|volume=369|issue=6501|pages=282–288|doi=10.1126/science.aba0909|issn=0036-8075|pmid=32409524}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Boer|first=Elisabeth de|last2=Yang|first2=Melinda A.|last3=Kawagoe|first3=Aileen|last4=Barnes|first4=Gina L.|date=2020/ed|title=Japan considered from the hypothesis of farmer/language spread|url=https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/evolutionary-human-sciences/article/japan-considered-from-the-hypothesis-of-farmerlanguage-spread/BD91E69AEA3CCAEDC567519EF7F5AA97|journal=Evolutionary Human Sciences|language=en|volume=2|doi=10.1017/ehs.2020.7|issn=2513-843X|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Yayoi people ===<br /> {{See also|Yayoi people}}<br /> The [[Yayoi people]] were migrants to the [[Japanese archipelago]] from [[Asia]] ([[Korea]] or [[China]]) during the [[Yayoi period]] (1000 BCE&amp;ndash;300 CE) and [[Kofun period]] (250–538 CE). They are seen as direct ancestors of the modern [[Yamato people]], the majority of Japanese and of the [[Ryukyuan people]]. It is estimated that modern Japanese share in average about 90% of their genome with the Yayoi.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/555/|title='Jomon woman' helps solve Japan's genetic mystery {{!}} NHK WORLD-JAPAN News|website=NHK WORLD|language=en|access-date=2019-07-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Paternal lineages ====<br /> It is estimated that Yayoi people mainly belonged to [[Haplogroup O-M176|Haplogroup O-M176 (O1b2)]] (found in ~32% of present-day Japanese males), [[Haplogroup O-M122]] (O2, formerly O3, today ~20%), [[Haplogroup O-K18]] (O1b1, today ~1%), and [[Haplogroup O-M119]] (O1a, today ~1%), which are typical for East and Southeast Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Nonaka2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Nonaka I, Minaguchi K, Takezaki N | title = Y-chromosomal binary haplogroups in the Japanese population and their relationship to 16 Y-STR polymorphisms | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 71 | issue = Pt 4 | pages = 480–95 | date = July 2007 | pmid = 17274803 | doi = 10.1111/j.1469-1809.2006.00343.x | hdl-access = free | hdl = 10130/491 | s2cid = 1041367 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Srithawong S, Srikummool M, Pittayaporn P, Ghirotto S, Chantawannakul P, Sun J, Eisenberg A, Chakraborty R, Kutanan W | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic and linguistic correlation of the Kra-Dai-speaking groups in Thailand | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 60 | issue = 7 | pages = 371–80 | date = July 2015 | pmid = 25833471 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2015.32 | s2cid = 21509343 }}&lt;/ref&gt; [[:ja:崎谷満|Mitsuru Sakitani]] suggests that haplogroup O1b2, which is common in today's Japanese, Koreans, and some Manchu, and O1a are one of the carriers of Yangtze civilization. As the Yangtze civilization declined several tribes crossed westward and northerly, to the [[Shandong peninsula]], the [[Korean Peninsula]] and the Japanese archipelago.&lt;ref&gt;崎谷満『DNA・考古・言語の学際研究が示す新・日本列島史』(勉誠出版 2009年&lt;/ref&gt; One study calls haplogroup O1b1 as a major [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]] paternal lineage and the haplogroup O1b2 (of Koreans and Japanese) as a &quot;''para-Austroasiatic''&quot; paternal lineage.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=5Z5BDwAAQBAJ&amp;q=japonic+austroasiatic&amp;pg=PA207|title=Language Dispersal Beyond Farming|last1=Robbeets|first1=Martine|last2=Savelyev|first2=Alexander | name-list-style = vanc |date=2017-12-21|publisher=John Benjamins Publishing Company|isbn=9789027264640}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Maternal lineages ====<br /> A recent study confirms that modern Japanese are predominantly descendants of the Yayoi. The mitochondrial chromosomes of modern Japanese are nearly identical with the Yayoi and differ significantly from the Jomon population (see below).&lt;ref name=&quot;Nara_2019&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Modern Japanese===<br /> <br /> ====Paternal lineages====<br /> The main paternal haplogroups of modern Yamato Japanese are [[Haplogroup D-M55]] (today ~33%, with the frequency in various samples ranging from 18/70 = 25.7% in a sample from [[Tokushima Prefecture]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hammer MF, Karafet TM, Park H, Omoto K, Harihara S, Stoneking M, Horai S | title = Dual origins of the Japanese: common ground for hunter-gatherer and farmer Y chromosomes | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 51 | issue = 1 | pages = 47–58 | year = 2006 | pmid = 16328082 | doi = 10.1007/s10038-005-0322-0 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; to 24/59 = 40.7% in a sample of Japanese male volunteers&lt;ref name = &quot;Ochiai2016&quot; /&gt; and 11/27 = 40.7% in a sample from [[Aomori Prefecture]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer1995&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hammer MF, Horai S | title = Y chromosomal DNA variation and the peopling of Japan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 56 | issue = 4 | pages = 951–62 | date = April 1995 | pmid = 7717406 | pmc = 1801189 }}&lt;/ref&gt;), [[Haplogroup O-M176|Haplogroup O-M176 (O1b2)]] (today ~32%, range 37/142 = 26.1% in a sample of Japanese&lt;ref name = &quot;Hashiyada2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hashiyada M, Nata M, Nagashima T | year = 2004 | title = Y-SNPs analysis in Japanese using liquid bead array technology | journal = International Congress Series | volume = 1261 | pages = 79–81 | doi = 10.1016/S0531-5131(03)01527-9 }}&lt;/ref&gt; to 35/97 = 36.1% in a sample from Western Japan&lt;ref name=&quot;Nonaka2007&quot;/&gt;), [[Haplogroup O-M122]] (O2, formerly O3) (today ~20%, ranging from 4/59 = 6.8% in a sample of Japanese volunteers&lt;ref name = &quot;Ochiai2016&quot; /&gt; and 11/102 = 10.8% in a sample of adults from [[Fukuoka]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal| vauthors = Sato Y, Shinka T, Ewis AA, Yamauchi A, Iwamoto T, Nakahori Y |title=Overview of genetic variation in the Y chromosome of modern Japanese males|journal=Anthropological Science|volume=122|issue=3|year=2014|pages=131–136|issn=0918-7960|doi=10.1537/ase.140709|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt; to 38/157 = 24.2% in a sample of Japanese&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2011&quot; /&gt; and 14/53 = 26.4% in a sample from Kyushu&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt;), [[Haplogroup C-M217]] (C2, today ~6%, ranging from 0/26 = 0.0% in a sample from Aomori,&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt; 1/61 = 1.6% in a sample from Shizuoka,&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt; 1/47 = 2.1% in a sample of Japanese,&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot; /&gt; and 3/137 = 2.2% in a sample from the Kantō region&lt;ref name = &quot;Nonaka2007&quot; /&gt; to 15/206 = 7.3% in a sample from Sapporo,&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot; /&gt; 18/241 = 7.5% in a sample from Osaka,&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot; /&gt; 4/53 = 7.5% in a sample from Kyushu,&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt; and 8/102 = 7.8% in a sample from Fukuoka&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot; /&gt;), and [[Haplogroup C-M8]] (C1a1, today ~5%, ranging from 0/53 = 0.0% in a sample from Kyushu&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt; to 7/70 = 10.0% in a sample from [[Tokushima Prefecture|Tokushima]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer2006&quot; /&gt;).&lt;ref name=&quot;Nonaka2007&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer_1995&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Hammer MF, Horai S | title = Y chromosomal DNA variation and the peopling of Japan | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 56 | issue = 4 | pages = 951–62 | date = April 1995 | pmid = 7717406 | pmc = 1801189 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Sato2014&quot; /&gt; Haplogroups [[haplogroup N-M231|N-M231]], [[haplogroup O-M119|O-M119]], [[haplogroup O-K18|O-K18]], and [[haplogroup Q-M242|Q-M242]] also have been observed with low frequency among present-day Japanese.<br /> <br /> A comprehensive study of worldwide Y-DNA diversity (Underhill ''et al.'' 2000) included a sample of 23 males from Japan, of whom eight (35%) belonged to haplogroup [[haplogroup D-M174|D-M174]], six (26%) belonged to [[haplogroup O-M175|O-M175]], five (22%) belonged to [[haplogroup O-M122|O-M122]], three (13%) belonged to [[Haplogroup C-M8|C-M8]] and [[Haplogroup C-M130|C-M130]], and one (4.3%) belonged to [[haplogroup N-M231|N-M128]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Underhill_2000&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Underhill PA, Shen P, Lin AA, Jin L, Passarino G, Yang WH, Kauffman E, Bonné-Tamir B, Bertranpetit J, Francalacci P, Ibrahim M, Jenkins T, Kidd JR, Mehdi SQ, Seielstad MT, Wells RS, Piazza A, Davis RW, Feldman MW, Cavalli-Sforza LL, Oefner PJ | display-authors = 6 | title = Y chromosome sequence variation and the history of human populations | journal = Nature Genetics | volume = 26 | issue = 3 | pages = 358–61 | date = November 2000 | pmid = 11062480 | doi = 10.1038/81685 | s2cid = 12893406 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Among 259 males from Japan (70 from [[Tokushima Prefecture|Tokushima]], 61 from [[Shizuoka Prefecture|Shizuoka]], 53 from [[Kyūshū]], 45 from [[Okinawa Prefecture|Okinawa]], 26 from [[Aomori Prefecture|Aomori]], and 4 [[Ainu people|Ainus]]) whose Y-DNA has been examined in a 2005 study by Michael F. Hammer, ninety (34.7%) belong to [[haplogroup D-M55]], eighty-two (31.7%) belong to [[Haplogroup O2 (Y-DNA)|haplogroup O-P31]] (including 22% O-47z, 7.7% O-M176(x47z), and 1.9% [[haplogroup O-K18|O-M95(xM111)]]), fifty-two (20.1%) belong to [[Haplogroup O3 (Y-DNA)|haplogroup O-M122]], fourteen (5.4%) belong to [[haplogroup C-M8]], ten (3.9%) belong to [[Haplogroup NO (Y-DNA)|haplogroup NO-M214(xO-M175)]] (including 2.3% NO-M214(xO-M175, N-LLY22g), 1.2% [[haplogroup N (Y-DNA)|haplogroup N-LLY22g(xM128, P43, M178)]], and 0.4% [[Haplogroup N-M231#N1c1a .28M178.29|haplogroup N-M178]]), and eight (3.1%) belong to [[haplogroup C-M217]] (including 1.9% haplogroup C-M217(xM86) and 1.2% [[Haplogroup C-M48|haplogroup C-M86]]).&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> The patrilines belonging to D-P37.1 were found in all the Japanese samples, but were more frequently found in the Ainu (75.0%) and Okinawa (55.6%) samples and less frequently found in the [[Tokushima Prefecture|Tokushima]] (25.7%) and [[Kyūshū]] samples (26.4%).&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt; Haplogroups O-M175 and C-M8 were not found in the small Ainu sample of four individuals, and C-M217 was not found in the Okinawa sample of 45 individuals.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt; Haplogroup N was detected in samples of Japanese from Aomori (2/26 N-LLY22g(xM128, P43, M178)), Shizuoka (1/61 N-LLY22g(xM128, P43, M178)), and Tokushima (1/70 N-M178), but was not found in the Kyūshū, Okinawa, or Ainu samples.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt; This study, and others, report that Y-chromosome patrilines crossed from the Asian mainland into the Japanese archipelago, and continue to make up a large proportion of the Japanese male lineage.&lt;ref name=&quot;Travis_1997&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Travis J|date=February 1997|title=Jomon Genes: Using DNA, researchers probe the genetic origins of modern japanese.|journal=Science News|volume=151|issue=7|pages=106–7|doi=10.2307/3980542|jstor=3980542}}&lt;/ref&gt; If focusing haplogroup O-P31 in those researches, the patrilines derived from its [[subclade]] [[Haplogroup O2b (Y-DNA)|O-SRY465]] are frequently found in both Japanese (mean 32%,&lt;ref&gt;238/744 = 32.0% O2b-SRY465 in a pool of all Japanese samples of Xue ''et al.'' (2006), Katoh ''et al.'' (2004), Han-Jun Jin ''et al.'' (2009), Nonaka ''et al.'' (2007), and all non-Ainu and non-Okinawan Japanese samples of Hammer ''et al.'' (2006).&lt;/ref&gt; with frequency in various samples ranging from 26%&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Hammer MF, Nakahori Y, Shinka T, Lee JW, Jin F, Jia X, Tyler-Smith C, Kim W | title = Y-chromosomal DNA haplogroups and their implications for the dual origins of the Koreans | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 114 | issue = 1 | pages = 27–35 | date = December 2003 | pmid = 14505036 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1019-0 | s2cid = 1396796 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Jin HJ, Tyler-Smith C, Kim W | title = The peopling of Korea revealed by analyses of mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal markers | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 4 | issue = 1 | pages = e4210 | year = 2009 | pmid = 19148289 | pmc = 2615218 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0004210 | bibcode = 2009PLoSO...4.4210J }} {{open access}}&lt;/ref&gt; to 36%&lt;ref name=&quot;Katoh_2005&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Katoh T, Munkhbat B, Tounai K, Mano S, Ando H, Oyungerel G, Chae GT, Han H, Jia GJ, Tokunaga K, Munkhtuvshin N, Tamiya G, Inoko H | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic features of Mongolian ethnic groups revealed by Y-chromosomal analysis | journal = Gene | volume = 346 | pages = 63–70 | date = February 2005 | pmid = 15716011 | doi = 10.1016/j.gene.2004.10.023 }}&lt;/ref&gt;) and Koreans (mean 30%,&lt;ref&gt;202/677 = 29.8% O2b-SRY465 in a pool of all ethnic Korean samples of Hammer ''et al.'' (2006), Xue ''et al.'' (2006), Katoh ''et al.'' (2004), Wook Kim ''et al.'' (2007), and Han-Jun Jin ''et al.'' (2009).&lt;/ref&gt; with frequency in various samples ranging from 19%&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kim2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kim W, Yoo TK, Kim SJ, Shin DJ, Tyler-Smith C, Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Kim ET, Bae YS | title = Lack of association between Y-chromosomal haplogroups and prostate cancer in the Korean population | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 2 | issue = 1 | pages = e172 | date = January 2007 | pmid = 17245448 | pmc = 1766463 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0000172 | bibcode = 2007PLoSO...2..172K }} {{open access}}&lt;/ref&gt; to 40%&lt;ref name=&quot;Katoh_2005&quot; /&gt;). According to the research, these patrilines have undergone extensive [[genetic admixture]] with the Jōmon period populations previously established in Japan.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2007 study by Nonaka ''et al.'' reported that among a total of 263 healthy unrelated Japanese male individuals born in 40 of the 47 [[prefectures of Japan]], but especially [[Tokyo Metropolis|Tokyo]] (''n''=51), [[Chiba Prefecture|Chiba]] (''n''=45), [[Kanagawa Prefecture|Kanagawa]] (''n''=14), [[Saitama Prefecture|Saitama]] (''n''=13), [[Shizuoka Prefecture|Shizuoka]] (''n''=12), and [[Nagano Prefecture|Nagano]] (''n''=11), the frequencies of the D2, O2b, and O3 lineages were 38.8%, 33.5%, and 16.7%, respectively, which constituted approximately 90% of the Japanese population. Haplogroup diversity for the binary polymorphisms was calculated to be 86.3%.&lt;ref name = &quot;Nonaka_2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Nonaka I, Minaguchi K, Takezaki N | title = Y-chromosomal binary haplogroups in the Japanese population and their relationship to 16 Y-STR polymorphisms | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 71 | issue = Pt 4 | pages = 480–95 | date = July 2007 | pmid = 17274803 | doi = 10.1111/j.1469-1809.2006.00343.x | hdl = 10130/491 | s2cid = 1041367 | hdl-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Poznik ''et al.'' (2016) have reported that the males in the JPT (Japanese in Tokyo, Japan) sample&lt;ref&gt;The JPT sample is considered &quot;as generally representative of the majority population in Japan&quot;. See {{cite web |last=Matsuda |first=Ichiro | name-list-style = vanc |title=Japanese in Tokyo, Japan – Population Description |location=Camden, [[New Jersey|NJ]] |publisher=Coriell Institute for Medical Research |url=https://catalog.coriell.org/0/Sections/Collections/NHGRI/Japanese.aspx?PgId=359 }}&lt;/ref&gt; of the [[1000 Genomes Project]] are 20/56 = 36% [[haplogroup D-M174|D2-M179]], 18/56 = 32% [[haplogroup O-M176|O2b-M176]], 10/56 = 18% [[haplogroup O-M122|O3-M122]], 4/56 = 7.1% [[Haplogroup C-F3393|C1a1-M8]], 2/56 = 3.6% [[haplogroup O-K18|O2a-K18]], and 2/56 = 3.6% [[haplogroup C-M217|C2-M217]].&lt;ref name = &quot;Poznik2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Poznik GD, Xue Y, Mendez FL, Willems TF, Massaia A, Wilson Sayres MA, Ayub Q, McCarthy SA, Narechania A, Kashin S, Chen Y, Banerjee R, Rodriguez-Flores JL, Cerezo M, Shao H, Gymrek M, Malhotra A, Louzada S, Desalle R, Ritchie GR, Cerveira E, Fitzgerald TW, Garrison E, Marcketta A, Mittelman D, Romanovitch M, Zhang C, Zheng-Bradley X, Abecasis GR, McCarroll SA, Flicek P, Underhill PA, Coin L, Zerbino DR, Yang F, Lee C, Clarke L, Auton A, Erlich Y, Handsaker RE, Bustamante CD, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = Punctuated bursts in human male demography inferred from 1,244 worldwide Y-chromosome sequences | journal = Nature Genetics | volume = 48 | issue = 6 | pages = 593–9 | date = June 2016 | pmid = 27111036 | pmc = 4884158 | doi = 10.1038/ng.3559 | hdl = 11858/00-001M-0000-002A-F024-C }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In a project approved by the Ethics Committee of [[Tokai University]] School of Medicine, Ochiai ''et al.'' (2016) have reported finding [[haplogroup D-M174|D-M174]] (rs2032602 T&gt;C) in 24/59 (40.7%), [[haplogroup O-P31|O-M268]] (rs13447443 A&gt;G) in 21/59 (35.6%), [[haplogroup C-M130|C-M130]] (rs35284970 C&gt;T) in 8/59 (13.6%), [[haplogroup O-M122|O-P198]] (rs17269816 T&gt;C) in 4/59 (6.8%), [[haplogroup N-M231|N-M231]] (rs9341278 G&gt;A) in 1/59 (1.7%), and [[haplogroup O-M175|O-P186]](xM268, P198) (rs16981290 C&gt;A, rs13447443 A, rs17269816 T) in 1/59 (1.7%) of a sample obtained through buccal swabs from Japanese male volunteers (''n'' = 59) who had given informed consent to participate in the study.&lt;ref name = &quot;Ochiai2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Ochiai E, Minaguchi K, Nambiar P, Kakimoto Y, Satoh F, Nakatome M, Miyashita K, Osawa M | title = Evaluation of Y chromosomal SNP haplogrouping in the HID-Ion AmpliSeq™ Identity Panel | journal = Legal Medicine | volume = 22 | pages = 58–61 | date = September 2016 | pmid = 27591541 | doi = 10.1016/j.legalmed.2016.08.001 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Maternal lineages====<br /> According to an analysis of the [[1000 Genomes Project]]'s sample of Japanese collected in the Tokyo metropolitan area, the mtDNA haplogroups found among modern Japanese include [[haplogroup D (mtDNA)|D]] (42/118 = 35.6%, including 39/118 = 33.1% D4 and 3/118 = 2.5% D5), [[haplogroup B (mtDNA)|B]] (16/118 = 13.6%, including 11/118 = 9.3% B4 and 5/118 = 4.2% B5), [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M7]] (12/118 = 10.2%), [[haplogroup G (mtDNA)|G]] (12/118 = 10.2%), [[haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N9]] (10/118 = 8.5%), [[haplogroup F (mtDNA)|F]] (9/118 = 7.6%), [[haplogroup A (mtDNA)|A]] (8/118 = 6.8%), [[haplogroup Z (mtDNA)|Z]] (4/118 = 3.4%), [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M9]] (3/118 = 2.5%), and [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M8]] (2/118 = 1.7%).&lt;ref name = &quot;Zheng_2011&quot;&gt;Zheng H-X, Yan S, Qin Z-D, Wang Y, Tan J-Z, ''et al.'' (2011), &quot;Major Population Expansion of East Asians Began before Neolithic Time: Evidence of mtDNA Genomes.&quot; ''PLoS ONE'' 6(10): e25835. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0025835&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Single-nucleotide polymorphism====<br /> A 2011 SNP consortium study done by the [[Chinese Academy of Sciences]] and [[Max Planck Society]] consisting of 1719 DNA samples determined that Koreans and Japanese clustered near to each other, confirming the findings of an earlier study that Koreans and Japanese are related. However, the Japanese were found to be genetically closer to South Asian populations as evident by a genetic position that is significantly closer towards South Asian populations on the principal component analysis (PCA) chart. Some Japanese individuals are also genetically closer to Southeast Asian and Melanesian populations when compared to other East Asians such as Koreans and Han Chinese, indicating possible genetic interactions between Japanese and these populations.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yang X, Xu S | title = Identification of close relatives in the HUGO Pan-Asian SNP database | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 6 | issue = 12 | pages = e29502 | date = 29 December 2011 | pmid = 22242128 | pmc = 3248454 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0029502 | bibcode = 2011PLoSO...629502Y | author4 = Indian Genome Variation Consortium | author3 = HUGO Pan-Asian SNP Consortium }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2008 study about genome-wide SNPs of East Asians by Chao Tian ''et al.'' reported that Japanese along with other East Asians such as [[Koreans|Joseon Korean]]s and [[Han Chinese]] are genetically distinguishable from Southeast Asians and that the Japanese are related to Koreans, who in turn are more closely related to Han Chinese. However, the Japanese are relatively genetically distant from Han Chinese, compared to Koreans.&lt;ref name=&quot;Public Library of Science&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Tian C, Kosoy R, Lee A, Ransom M, Belmont JW, Gregersen PK, Seldin MF | title = Analysis of East Asia genetic substructure using genome-wide SNP arrays | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 3 | issue = 12 | pages = e3862 | date = December 5, 2008 | pmid = 19057645 | pmc = 2587696 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0003862 | bibcode = 2008PLoSO...3.3862T }}&lt;/ref&gt; Another study (2017) shows a relative strong relation between all East and Southeast Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aId=3030017|title=Pinning down Korean-ness through DNA|website=Korea JoongAng Daily|language=ko|access-date=2019-07-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Immunoglobulin G====<br /> <br /> Hideo Matsumoto, professor [[emeritus]] at [[Osaka Medical College]] tested Gm types, genetic markers of [[immunoglobulin G]], of Japanese populations for a 2009 study.&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | last1 = Matsumoto | first1 = Hideo | name-list-style = vanc | year = 2009 | title = The origin of the Japanese race based on genetic markers of immunoglobulin G. | journal = Proceedings of the Japan Academy Series B | volume = 85 | issue = 2| pages = 69–82 | doi = 10.2183/pjab.85.69 | pmid = 19212099 | pmc = 3524296 | bibcode = 2009PJAB...85...69M }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to this study, the Gm ab3st gene is found at notably high frequencies across eastern Siberia, [[North China|northern China]], [[Korea]], [[Mongolia]], Japan, and [[Tibet]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; The mean frequency of Gm ab3st for the mainstream Japanese population was found to be 26.0%, with a peak in the [[Yaeyama Islands]] (36.4% [[Yonaguni]], 32.1% [[Ishigaki Island|Ishigaki]]) among all populations in Japan and peaks in [[Akita, Akita|Akita]] (29.5%) and [[Shizunai]] (28.3%) among mainstream Japanese.&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; On mainland Asia, peak frequencies of Gm ab3st were found among [[Oroqen people|Oroqen]] (44.0%) and [[Tungus]] (30.0%) in [[northeast China]] and among the north Baikal [[Buryats]] (30.7%); however, this gene is also frequent among [[Eskimos]] (25.4% Alaska, 24.7% Greenland, 20.5% Chaplin, Russia), [[Chukotkan languages|Luoravetlans]] ([[Koryaks|Koryak]] 20.0%, [[Chukchi people|Chukchi]] 15.3%), and [[Athabaskans]] (New Mexico [[Apache]] 19.7%, Alaska Athabascan 14.3%), and it is not uncommon even as far west as the south shore of the [[Caspian Sea]] (8.8% [[Gilan Province|Gilani]], 8.5% [[Mazanderan Province|Mazanderani]]).&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt; Minimum frequencies of Gm ab3st were found in [[Yakushima]] (22.0%) among all populations in Japan and in [[Tsu, Mie|Tsu]] (23.3%) and [[Ōita, Ōita|Ōita]] (23.6%) among mainstream Japanese.&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; The data from small, isolated island populations, such as those of Yonaguni, Ishigaki, and Yakushima, were not used when calculating the mean for the mainstream Japanese population.&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; The study also considered [[Ainu people|Ainu]] and [[Koreans|Korean]] populations and found Gm ab3st with a frequency of 25.2% among Ainu in [[Hidaka Subprefecture|Hidaka, Hokkaido]] and a mean frequency of 14.5% (range 13.1% [[Pusan]], South Korea to 18.6% [[Yanji]], China) among Koreans.&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Gm afb1b3, on the other hand, is a southern marker gene possibly originating in [[South China|southern China]] on the background of the fb1b3 gene (the modal Gm type among [[Caucasoids]]) and found at very high frequencies across southern China, [[Southeast Asia]], [[Taiwan]], [[Sri Lanka]], [[Bangladesh]], [[Nepal]], [[Assam]], and the [[Pacific Islands]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;/&gt; Professor Matsumoto has remarked that the center of dispersal of the Gm afb1b3 gene may be in the Yunnan and Guangxi area of southern China; extremely high frequencies of this gene have been observed in samples of mostly [[Tai-Kadai languages|Daic]] peoples from this region (95.2% [[Sui people|Shui]] in [[Sandu Shui Autonomous County|Sandu]], Guizhou, 94.2% [[Zhuang people|Zhuang]] in Guangxi, 91.4% [[Bouyei people|Bouyei]] in [[Duyun]], Guizhou, 87.5% [[Miao people|Miao]] in Guizhou, 84.0% [[Dai people|Dai]] in [[Mangshi|Luxi]], Yunnan) and from neighboring Laos (97.0% Laotian) and Thailand (89.9% Thai).&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt; However, Gm afb1b3 is almost equally common among people in Malaysia (97.3% [[Kadazan people|Kadazan]] on Borneo, 85.0% [[Malay people|Malay]]), Indonesia (76.6% [[Sulawesi]], 75.2% [[Java]]), the Philippines (83.6% [[Luzon]] Filipinos, 76.4% Luzon Negritos, 67.2% Mindanao Negritos), [[Karen people]] in Thailand (82.3%), [[Bodo-Kachari people|Kachari]]s in Assam (80.9%), Cambodians (76.7%), [[Taiwanese aborigines]] (76.2%), [[Micronesian people|Micronesians]] (88.7%), [[Melanesians]] (74.6%), and [[Polynesians]] (74.7% [[Cook Islands]], 69.4% [[Hawaii]]).&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt; The study found that the mean frequency of Gm afb1b3 was 10.6% (range 7.8% [[Shizunai]] to 13.0% [[Osaka]]) for the general Japanese population. Minimum frequencies (4.0% to 4.4%) of Gm afb1b3 were found among the [[Ryukyuan people|native people]] in the Yaeyama and [[Miyako Islands|Miyako]] islands in the extreme south of Japan and among the Ainu (4.3%) in the extreme north of Japan. The author suggested that the somewhat elevated frequency of the Gm afb1b3 gene among the mainstream Japanese compared to the Sakishima islanders and the Ainu may have resulted from some admixture of the mainstream Japanese population at rates as low as 7–8% with southern Asian (from southern China or Southeast Asia as far west as Bangladesh and Nepal) populations having the Gm afb1b3 gene in high frequency.&lt;ref name=&quot;Gm&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> The other Gm types observed among Japanese are ag (45.8%) and axg (17.6%), which are not so useful for discerning human migrations and genetic relationships because they appear to be [[symplesiomorphy|retained from a common ancestor of most modern humans]] and are found in similar proportions (with the frequency of ag being significantly greater than the frequency of axg) in many populations all over the world (aboriginal Australians and Americans, South Asians, Caucasoids, ''etc.'').&lt;ref name = &quot;Gm&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Genetic components compared with other Asian populations ====<br /> A 2017 study conducted by Fumihiko Takeuchi, Tomohiro Katsuya, Ryosuke Kimura and Norihiro Kato compared three genetically distinct Japanese groups, Hondu ([[Honshu]]), [[Ryukyu Islands|Ryukyu]] and [[Ainu people|Ainu]] to 26 other Asian populations to analyze the shared ancestry and genetic differentiation between the Japanese people and other Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;PLOS&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Takeuchi F, Katsuya T, Kimura R, Nabika T, Isomura M, Ohkubo T, Tabara Y, Yamamoto K, Yokota M, Liu X, Saw WY, Mamatyusupu D, Yang W, Xu S, Teo YY, Kato N | title = The fine-scale genetic structure and evolution of the Japanese population | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 12 | issue = 11 | pages = e0185487 | year = 2017 | pmid = 29091727 | pmc = 5665431 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0185487 | bibcode = 2017PLoSO..1285487T }}&lt;/ref&gt; The study revealed for the Japanese as a whole, some genetic components from all of the Central, East, Southeast and South Asian populations are prevalent in the Japanese population with the major components of ancestry profile coming from the [[Koreans|Korean]] and [[Han Chinese]] clusters.&lt;ref name=&quot;PLOS&quot;/&gt; The major components of the Japanese Hondo cluster is similar to the Korean (87–94%), followed by Han Chinese 1 (0–8%) clusters.&lt;ref name=&quot;PLOS&quot;/&gt; The genetic components from the Southeast Asian ([[Thai people|Thais]], [[Vietnamese people|Vietnamese]] and [[Malays (ethnic group)|Malays]]) and South Asian ([[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]] and [[Tamils]]) clusters were larger for the Ryukyu cluster – Southeast Asian (4–6%) and South Asian (4–6%) – in comparison to the results found in the Hondo cluster – Southeast Asian (0–1%) and South Asian (1–2%).&lt;ref name=&quot;PLOS&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Predominantly Yayoi Origins of the Modern Japanese ====<br /> A recent study (2018) shows that the Japanese are predominantly descendants of the Yayoi people and are closely related to other modern East Asians, especially [[Koreans]] and [[Han Chinese]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Wang_2018&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web | title = Today's East Asians are very genetically similar to their ancient ancestors |url=https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/1/14469236/east-asian-genetic-sequencing-ancestors-history-hunter-gatherers | first = Angela | last = Chen | name-list-style = vanc |date=2017-02-01|website=The Verge|access-date=2019-04-17}}&lt;/ref&gt; It is estimated that the majority of Japanese only has about 12% Jōmon ancestry or even less.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/fukayomi/20171214-OYT8T50003/|title=「縄文人」は独自進化したアジアの特異集団だった! : 深読み|date=2017-12-15|website=読売新聞オンライン|language=ja|access-date=2019-04-17}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Recent studies suggest that the Japanese people are predominantly descendants of the [[Yayoi people]], and that the Yayoi largely displaced the local Jōmon.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wang_2018&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> A genome research (Takahashi et al. 2019) shows that modern Japanese (Yamato) do not have much Jōmon ancestry at all. Nuclear genome analysis of Jōmon samples and modern Japanese samples show strong differences.&lt;ref name=&quot;Nara_2019&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Takahashi R, Koibuchi R, Saeki F, Hagihara Y, Yoneda M, Adachi N, Nara T |title=Mitochondrial DNA analysis of the human skeletons excavated from the Shomyoji shell midden site, Kanagawa, Japan |journal=Anthropological Science |date=2019 |volume=127 |issue=1 |pages=65–72 |doi=10.1537/ase.190307 |doi-access=free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study by Gakihari et al. 2019 estimate the gene-flow from Jōmon people into modern Japanese people at about 3.3% or 9.8%, and that modern Japanese cluster closely with other East Asians but are clearly distinct from the [[Ainu people]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal | vauthors = Gakuhari T, Nakagome S, Rasmussen S, Allentoft M, Sato T, Korneliussen T, Chuinneagáin BN, Matsumae H, Koganebuchi K, Schmidt R, Mizushima S | display-authors = 6 |date=March 15, 2019 |orig-year=2019 |title=Jomon genome sheds light on East Asian population history |url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/03/15/579177.full.pdf |publisher=[[bioRxiv]] |publication-date=March 15, 2019 |pages=3–5}}&lt;/ref&gt; A study by Kanazawa-Kiriyama et al. (2019) estmates 9–13% ancestry from the Jomon in the modern Japanese.&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ase/advpub/0/advpub_190415/_pdf/-char/en Late Jomon male and female genome sequences from the Funadomari site in Hokkaido, Japan - Hideaki Kanzawa-Kiriyama, Department of Anthropology, National Museum of Nature and Science 2018/2019en]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Ainu people ===<br /> The [[Ainu people]], an ethnic minority in [[Hokkaido]], [[Sakhalin]] and the [[Kurils]], were found to have formed from two distinct ancestry groups during the [[Jōmon period]], one distinctive Paleolithic population from [[Central Asia]] and one ancient population from [[Northeast Asia]] ([[Okhotsk culture|Okhotsk people]], with both arriving at different times during the Jōmon period in Japan. According to Lee and Hasegawa from the [[Waseda University]], the [[Ainu language|Ainu-speakers]] itself originated from the Northeast Asian/Okhotsk population, which established themselves in northern Hokkaido and expanded into large parts of [[Honshu]] and the [[Kurils]] and created the Incipient Jōmon culture, long before the arrival of contemporary Japanese people.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|last=Lee, Hasegawa|first=Sean, Toshikazu|date=April 2013|title=Evolution of the Ainu Language in Space and Time|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236604406_Evolution_of_the_Ainu_Language_in_Space_and_Time|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=|website=|quote=In this paper, we reconstructed spatiotemporal evolution of 19 Ainu language varieties, and the results are in strong agreement with the hypothesis that a recent population expansion of the Okhotsk people played a critical role in shaping the Ainu people and their culture. Together with the recent archaeological, biological and cultural evidence, our phylogeographic reconstruction of the Ainu language strongly suggests that the conventional dual-structure model must be refined to explain these new bodies of evidence. The case of the Ainu language origin we report here also contributes additional detail to the global pattern of language evolution, and our language phylogeny might also provide a basis for making further inferences about the cultural dynamics of the Ainu speakers [44,45].}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;崎谷満『DNA・考古・言語の学際研究が示す新・日本列島史』(勉誠出版 2009年)(in Japanese)&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://www.jjarchaeology.jp/contents/pdf/vol002/2-1_034-059.pdf|title=Jōmon culture and the peopling of the Japanese archipelago|last=Schmidt, Seguchi|year=2014|quote=In this respect, the biological identity of the Jomon is heterogeneous, and it may be indicative of diverse peoples who possibly belonged to a common culture, known as the Jomon}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> A study by Gakuhari et al. (2019) suggests about 79.3% ancestry from the Jomon in the modern Ainu.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Gakuhari|first1=Takashi|last2=Nakagome|first2=Shigeki|last3=Rasmussen|first3=Simon|last4=Allentoft|first4=Morten|last5=Sato|first5=Takehiro|last6=Korneliussen|first6=Thorfinn|last7=Chuinneagáin|first7=Blánaid|last8=Matsumae|first8=Hiromi|last9=Koganebuchi|first9=Kae|last10=Schmidt|first10=Ryan|last11=Mizushima|first11=Souichiro|date=March 15, 2019|orig-year=2019|title=Jomon genome sheds light on East Asian population history|url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/03/15/579177.full.pdf|publisher=[[bioRxiv]]|publication-date=March 15, 2019|pages=3–5}}&lt;/ref&gt; <br /> A study by Kanazawa-Kiriyama et al. (2019) suggests about 66%.&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ase/advpub/0/advpub_190415/_pdf/-char/en Late Jomon male and female genome sequences from the Funadomari site in Hokkaido, Japan - Hideaki Kanzawa-Kiriyama, Department of Anthropology, National Museum of Nature and Science 2018/2019en]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Koreans==<br /> <br /> Studies of [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|polymorphisms in the human Y-chromosome]] have so far produced evidence to suggest that the [[Koreans|Korean people]] have a long history as a distinct, mostly [[endogamy|endogamous]] ethnic group, with successive waves of people moving to the peninsula and three major Y-chromosome haplogroups.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kim SH, Han MS, Kim W, Kim W | title = Y chromosome homogeneity in the Korean population | journal = International Journal of Legal Medicine | volume = 124 | issue = 6 | pages = 653–7 | date = November 2010 | pmid = 20714743 | doi = 10.1007/s00414-010-0501-1 | s2cid = 27125545 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The reference population for Koreans used in [[Genographic Project#Geno 2.0 Next Generation|Geno 2.0 Next Generation]] is 94% Eastern Asia and 5% Southeast Asia &amp; Oceania.&lt;ref&gt;[[Genographic Project#Geno 2.0 Next Generation|Reference Populations – Geno 2.0 Next Generation]] . (2017). [[Genographic Project|The Genographic Project]]. Retrieved 15 May 2017, from [https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/ link.]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Several studies confirmed that Koreans are basically a [[Northeast Asia]]&lt;nowiki/&gt;n population, but that Korean populations have both Northeast and Southeast Asian genome.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Jin HJ, Tyler-Smith C, Kim W | title = The peopling of Korea revealed by analyses of mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal markers | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 4 | issue = 1 | pages = e4210 | date = 2009-01-16 | pmid = 19148289 | pmc = 2615218 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0004210 | bibcode = 2009PLoSO...4.4210J }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Paternal lineages===<br /> Jin Han-jun et al. (2003)&lt;!--The article's abstract wrote this person's name as &quot;Han-Jun Jin.&quot; Jin Han-jun is this person's name in the Korean name ordering.--&gt; said that the distribution of [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromosomal haplogroups]] shows that Koreans have a complex origin that results from genetic contributions from [[Colonisation (biology)|range expansions]], most of which are from southern-to-northern China, and genetic contributions from the northern Asian settlement.&lt;!--This information is in the last sentence of the article's abstract.--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2003&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Korean males display a high frequency of [[Haplogroup O-M176]] (O1b2, formerly O2b), a subclade that probably has spread mainly from somewhere in the Korean Peninsula or its vicinity,&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2011&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Balaresque2015&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Balaresque P, Poulet N, Cussat-Blanc S, Gerard P, Quintana-Murci L, Heyer E, Jobling MA | title = Y-chromosome descent clusters and male differential reproductive success: young lineage expansions dominate Asian pastoral nomadic populations | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 23 | issue = 10 | pages = 1413–22 | date = October 2015 | pmid = 25585703 | pmc = 4430317 | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2014.285 }}&lt;/ref&gt; and [[Haplogroup O-M122]] (O2, formerly O3), a common Y-DNA haplogroup among East and Southeast Asians in general.&lt;ref name = &quot;Shi2005&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shi H, Dong YL, Wen B, Xiao CJ, Underhill PA, Shen PD, Chakraborty R, Jin L, Su B | title = Y-chromosome evidence of southern origin of the East Asian-specific haplogroup O3-M122 | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 77 | issue = 3 | pages = 408–19 | date = September 2005 | pmid = 16080116 | pmc = 1226206 | doi = 10.1086/444436 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Wen2004&quot;/&gt; Haplogroup O1b2-M176 has been found in approximately 30% (ranging from 20%&lt;ref name = &quot;Jin_2003&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Xue Y, Zerjal T, Bao W, Zhu S, Shu Q, Xu J, Du R, Fu S, Li P, Hurles ME, Yang H, Tyler-Smith C | title = Male demography in East Asia: a north-south contrast in human population expansion times | journal = Genetics | volume = 172 | issue = 4 | pages = 2431–9 | date = April 2006 | pmid = 16489223 | pmc = 1456369 | doi = 10.1534/genetics.105.054270 }}&lt;/ref&gt; to 37%&lt;ref name=&quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt;) of sampled Korean males, while haplogroup O2-M122 has been found in approximately 40% of sampled Korean males.&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Shin2001&quot; &gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shin DJ, Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Choi JW, Han MS, Kang PW, Choi SK, Kim W | title = Y-chromosome multiplexes and their potential for the DNA profiling of Koreans | journal = International Journal of Legal Medicine | volume = 115 | issue = 2 | pages = 109–17 | date = October 2001 | pmid = 11724428 | doi = 10.1007/s004140100248 | s2cid = 27739773 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2007&quot;/&gt; Korean males also exhibit a moderate frequency (approximately 15%) of [[Haplogroup C-M217]].<br /> <br /> About 2% of Korean males belong to [[Haplogroup D-M174]] (0/216 = 0.0% DE-YAP,&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2007&quot; /&gt; 3/300 = 1.0% DE-M145,&lt;ref name = &quot;Park2013&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Park MJ, Lee HY, Kim NY, Lee EY, Yang WI, Shin KJ | title = Y-SNP miniplexes for East Asian Y-chromosomal haplogroup determination in degraded DNA | journal = Forensic Science International. Genetics | volume = 7 | issue = 1 | pages = 75–81 | date = January 2013 | pmid = 22818129 | doi = 10.1016/j.fsigen.2012.06.014 }}&lt;/ref&gt; 1/68 = 1.5% DE-YAP(xE-SRY4064),&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot; /&gt; 8/506 = 1.6% [[Haplogroup D1b (Y-DNA)|D1b-M55]],&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kim SH, Kim KC, Shin DJ, Jin HJ, Kwak KD, Han MS, Song JM, Kim W, Kim W | title = High frequencies of Y-chromosome haplogroup O2b-SRY465 lineages in Korea: a genetic perspective on the peopling of Korea | journal = Investigative Genetics | volume = 2 | issue = 1 | pages = 10 | date = April 2011 | pmid = 21463511 | pmc = 3087676 | doi = 10.1186/2041-2223-2-10 }}&lt;/ref&gt; 3/154 = 1.9% DE, 18/706 = 2.55% D-M174,&lt;ref name=&quot;Kwon2015&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kwon SY, Lee HY, Lee EY, Yang WI, Shin KJ | title = Confirmation of Y haplogroup tree topologies with newly suggested Y-SNPs for the C2, O2b and O3a subhaplogroups | journal = Forensic Science International. Genetics | volume = 19 | pages = 42–46 | date = November 2015 | pmid = 26103100 | doi = 10.1016/j.fsigen.2015.06.003 }}&lt;/ref&gt; 5/164 = 3.0% D-M174,&lt;ref name=&quot;Katoh_2005&quot; /&gt; 1/75 D1b*-P37.1(xD1b1-M116.1) + 2/75 D1b1a-M125(xD1b1a1-P42) = 3/75 = 4.0% D1b-P37.1,&lt;ref name = &quot;Hammer_2006&quot; /&gt; 3/45 = 6.7% D-M174&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Wells RS, Yuldasheva N, Ruzibakiev R, Underhill PA, Evseeva I, Blue-Smith J, Jin L, Su B, Pitchappan R, Shanmugalakshmi S, Balakrishnan K, Read M, Pearson NM, Zerjal T, Webster MT, Zholoshvili I, Jamarjashvili E, Gambarov S, Nikbin B, Dostiev A, Aknazarov O, Zalloua P, Tsoy I, Kitaev M, Mirrakhimov M, Chariev A, Bodmer WF | display-authors = 6 | title = The Eurasian heartland: a continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 98 | issue = 18 | pages = 10244–9 | date = August 2001 | pmid = 11526236 | pmc = 56946 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.171305098 | bibcode = 2001PNAS...9810244W }}&lt;/ref&gt;). The D1b-M55 subclade has been found with maximal frequency in a small sample (n=16) of the [[Ainu people]] of Japan, and is generally frequent throughout the Japanese Archipelago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Tajima2004&quot;&gt;<br /> {{cite journal | vauthors = Tajima A, Hayami M, Tokunaga K, Juji T, Matsuo M, Marzuki S, Omoto K, Horai S | title = Genetic origins of the Ainu inferred from combined DNA analyses of maternal and paternal lineages | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 49 | issue = 4 | pages = 187–93 | year = 2004 | pmid = 14997363 | doi = 10.1007/s10038-004-0131-x | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; Other haplogroups that have been found less commonly in samples of Korean males are Y-DNA [[haplogroup N-M231]] (approx. 4%), [[haplogroup O-M119]] (approx. 3%), [[haplogroup O-M268]](xM176) (approx. 2%), [[haplogroup Q-M242]] and [[Haplogroup R1]] (approx. 2% total), J, Y*(xA, C, DE, J, K), L, C-RPS4Y(xM105, M38, M217), and C-M105.&lt;ref name = &quot;Kim2011&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Xue2006&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> [[Korea Foundation]] Associate Professor of History, Eugene Y. Park, said that there is no correlation between a Korean person's [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup]] and their surname or ancestral seat.&lt;ref name=&quot;ProfessorEugenePark&quot;&gt;Eugene Y. Park. (n.d.). [[University of Pennsylvania School of Arts and Sciences|Penn Arts &amp; Sciences]] East Asian Languages and Civilizations. Retrieved January 24, 2018, from [https://www.sas.upenn.edu/ealc/people/eugene-y-park link.] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20171111194602/https://www.sas.upenn.edu/ealc/people/eugene-y-park |date=11 November 2017 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;!--This first citation is to cite Eugene Y. Park's credential as &quot;Korea Foundation Associate Professor of History&quot;.--&gt;&lt;ref&gt;In a YouTube video which was published on May 18, 2015, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akiv2ji6EiY&amp;t=9m9s from the 9:09 mark of the video to 9:56 mark of the video], [[Korea Foundation]] Associate Professor of History, Eugene Y. Park said, &quot;Unlike the Jewish people, Jewish males with the traditionally priestly surnames such as the [[Levi (surname)|Levi]], [[Levine]], [[Cohen (surname)|Cohen]], and others, who claim that they're descended from [[Moses|Moses's]] brother, [[Aaron]], and the Y-DNA analysis actually shows that the majority of the Jewish men with the, such surnames, descend from a single male, who lived about a hundred generations ago, around the time of [[the Exodus]]. In complete, in stark contrast, Y-DNA analysis shows that there's no correlation between [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-DNA haplotype or haplogroup]], and a [[List of Korean surnames|Korean person's surname]] or ancestral seat. It's fairly random.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;!--This second citation is to cite the statement which is attributed to Eugene Y. Park.--&gt;<br /> <br /> He Miao&lt;!--The article wrote the name as &quot;Miao He&quot;. &quot;He Miao&quot; is the person's name in the Chinese name order.--&gt; et al. (2009) created an artificial combination of equal parts of the [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromsomes]] of the [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] samples of Han Chinese in Beijing and Japanese in Tokyo. The study said that this artificial combination resembled five populations which included Koreans in South Korea and [[Koreans in China]].&lt;!--This information is in the second sentence of the third paragraph of the right column of page 5 of 8 of the PDF document. That sentence uses the acronyms &quot;CHB&quot; and &quot;JPT&quot;. These two acronyms are defined in the second sentence of the &quot;Introduction&quot; section of page 1 of 8 of the PDF document as &quot;Han Chinese in Beijing, China&quot; and &quot;Japanese in Tokyo, Japan,&quot; respectively. That sentence uses the phrase &quot;Chinese Koreans&quot; which could ambiguously mean either Koreans in China or Chinese in Korea. Figure 3 Map &quot;A&quot; on page 6 of 8 of the PDF document shows a dot for &quot;Chinese Korean&quot; in China north of North Korea, so the study must be using the term &quot;Chinese Koreans&quot; to mean an analyzed regional population of Koreans in China rather than Chinese in Korea. The same sentence uses the term &quot;Koreans,&quot; and Figure 3 Map &quot;A&quot; on page 6 of 8 of the PDF document shows the dot for &quot;Korean&quot; in South Korea, so the study, in that sentence, is using the singular term &quot;Korean&quot; to mean an analyzed regional population of Koreans in South Korea.--&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=He M, Gitschier J, Zerjal T, de Knijff P, Tyler-Smith C, Xue Y|year=2009|title=Geographical affinities of the HapMap samples|journal=PLOS ONE|volume=4|issue=3|pages=e4684|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0004684|pmc=2649532|pmid=19259268|bibcode=2009PLoSO...4.4684H}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Maternal lineages===<br /> Studies of Korean [[mitochondrial DNA]] lineages have shown that there is a high frequency of [[Haplogroup D (mtDNA)|Haplogroup D4]], ranging from approximately 23% (11/48) among ethnic Koreans in [[Arun Banner]], [[Inner Mongolia]]&lt;ref name = &quot;Kong_2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kong QP, Yao YG, Liu M, Shen SP, Chen C, Zhu CL, Palanichamy MG, Zhang YP | title = Mitochondrial DNA sequence polymorphisms of five ethnic populations from northern China | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 113 | issue = 5 | pages = 391–405 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 12938036 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-003-1004-7 | s2cid = 6370358 }}&lt;/ref&gt; to approximately 32% (33/103) among Koreans from South Korea.&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2009&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Derenko2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Grzybowski T, Denisova G, Dambueva I, Perkova M, Dorzhu C, Luzina F, Lee HK, Vanecek T, Villems R, Zakharov I | display-authors = 6 | title = Phylogeographic analysis of mitochondrial DNA in northern Asian populations | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 81 | issue = 5 | pages = 1025–41 | date = November 2007 | pmid = 17924343 | pmc = 2265662 | doi = 10.1086/522933 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Haplogroup D4 is the modal mtDNA haplogroup among northern East Asians (Japanese, Ryukyuans, Koreans, Manchus, Oroqens, Manchurian Evenks, Daurs, Mongols, northern Han Chinese, Tibetans) in general, with a peak frequency among Japanese and Ryukyuans in Japan. [[Haplogroup B (mtDNA)|Haplogroup B]], which occurs very frequently in many populations of Southeast Asia, Polynesia, and the Americas, is found in approximately 10% (5/48 ethnic Koreans from Arun Banner, Inner Mongolia) to 20% (21/103 Koreans from South Korea) of Koreans.&lt;ref name = &quot;Kong_2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Derenko2007&quot; /&gt; [[Haplogroup A (mtDNA)|Haplogroup A]] has been detected in approximately 7% (7/103 Koreans from South Korea) to 15% (7/48 ethnic Koreans from [[Arun Banner]], Inner Mongolia) of Koreans.&lt;ref name = &quot;Kong_2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Derenko2007&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Jin_2009&quot;/&gt; Haplogroup A is the most common mtDNA haplogroup among the [[Chukchi people|Chukchi]], [[Eskimo]], [[Na-Dene languages|Na-Dene]], and many [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Amerind]] ethnic groups of North and Central America.<br /> <br /> The other half of the Korean mtDNA pool consists of an assortment of various haplogroups, each found with relatively low frequency, such as [[haplogroup G (mtDNA)|G]], [[haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N9]], [[haplogroup Y (mtDNA)|Y]], [[Haplogroup F (mtDNA)|F]], [[haplogroup D (mtDNA)|D5]], [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M7]], [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M8]], [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M9]], [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M10]], [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M11]], [[Haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R11]], [[haplogroup C (mtDNA)|C]], and [[Haplogroup Z|Z]].<br /> <br /> Hwan Young Lee ''et al.'' (2006) studied a sample of 694 Koreans and found the following mtDNA distribution: 32.56% (226/694) [[haplogroup D (mtDNA)|D]] (including 188/694 = 27.09% D4, 37/694 = 5.33% D5, and 1/694 = 0.14% D6a), 14.84% (103/694) [[haplogroup B (mtDNA)|B]] (including 23/694 = 3.31% B4a, 22/694 = 3.17% B4b, 20/694 = 2.88% B5b, 12/694 = 1.73% B4c, 12/694 = 1.73% B4*, 10/694 = 1.44% B5a, 2/694 = 0.29% B4d, and 2/694 = 0.29% B4f), 9.65% (67/694) [[haplogroup G (mtDNA)|G]] (including 27/694 = 3.89% G2a, 18/694 = 2.59% G1a, 11/694 = 1.59% G3, 9/694 = 1.30% G*, 1/694 = 0.14% G2c, and 1/694 = 0.14% G4), 8.79% (61/694) [[haplogroup A (mtDNA)|A]] (including 23/694 = 3.31% A5a, 3/694 = 0.43% A5b, 3/694 = 0.43% A5c, 25/694 = 3.60% A4, and 7/694 = 1.01% A(xA4, A5)), 8.36% (58/694) [[haplogroup F (mtDNA)|F]], 8.21% (57/694) [[haplogroup N (mtDNA)|N9]] (including 18/694 = 2.59% N9a2a, 11/694 = 1.59% N9a2*, 11/694 = 1.59% N9a1, 9/694 = 1.30% Y1b, 4/694 = 0.58% N9a*, 2/694 = 0.29% N9b, and 2/694 = 0.29% Y2), 7.78% (54/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M7]] (including 25/694 = 3.60% M7b, 20/694 = 2.88% M7c, and 9/694 = 1.30% M7a), 4.76% (33/694) [[haplogroup M8 (mtDNA)|M8'CZ]] (including 17/694 = 2.45% [[haplogroup C (mtDNA)|C]], 7/694 = 1.01% M8a, 7/694 = 1.01% [[haplogroup Z (mtDNA)|Z]], and 2/694 = 0.29% pre-Z), 1.87% (13/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M9]], 1.73% (12/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M10]], 0.72% (5/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M11]], 0.29% (2/694) [[haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R11]], 0.14% (1/694) [[haplogroup R (mtDNA)|R9b]], 0.14% (1/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M12]], and 0.14% (1/694) [[haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M*]].&lt;ref name = &quot;Lee2006&quot;&gt;Hwan Young Lee, Ji-Eun Yoo, Myung Jin Park, Ukhee Chung, Chong-Youl Kim, and Kyoung-Jin Shin, &quot;East Asian mtDNA haplogroup determination in Koreans: Haplogroup-level coding region SNP analysis and subhaplogroup-level control region sequence analysis.&quot; ''Electrophoresis'' (2006). DOI 10.1002/elps.200600151.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study of the mtDNA of 708 Koreans sampled from six regions of South Korea (134 from Seoul-[[Gyeonggi Province|Gyeonggi]], 118 from [[Jeolla Province|Jeolla]], 117 from [[Chungcheong Province|Chungcheong]], 114 from [[Gangwon Province (South Korea)|Gangwon]], 113 from [[Jeju Province|Jeju]], and 112 from [[Gyeongsang Province|Gyeongsang]]) found that they belonged to haplogroup D (35.5%, including 14.7% D4(xD4a, D4b), 7.8% D4a, 6.5% D5, 6.4% D4b, and 0.14% D(xD4, D5)), haplogroup B (14.8%, including 11.0% B4 and 3.8% B5), haplogroup A (8.3%), haplogroup M7 (7.6%), haplogroup F (7.1%), haplogroup M8'CZ (6.5%), haplogroup G (6.1%), haplogroup N9a (5.2%), haplogroup Y (3.8%), haplogroup M9 (2.7%), haplogroup M10 (1.6%), haplogroup M11 (0.42%), haplogroup N(xN9, Y, A, F, B4, B5) (0.28%), and haplogroup N9(xN9a) (0.14%).&lt;ref name = &quot;Hong2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors =Hong SB, Kim KC, Kim W | year = 2014 | title = Mitochondrial DNA haplogroups and homogeneity in the Korean population | journal = Genes &amp; Genomics | volume = 36| issue = 5| pages = 583–590| doi = 10.1007/s13258-014-0194-9 | s2cid = 16827252 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study of 1094 individuals in the Korean Genome Project found that they belonged to haplogroup D (34.19%), haplogroup B (13.89%), haplogroup M(xC, D, G, Z) (13.8%), haplogroup A (8.32%), haplogroup G (8.23%), haplogroup F (7.86%), haplogroup N(xA, B, F, R, Y) (5.76%), haplogroup C (3.02%), haplogroup R(xB, F) (2.01%), haplogroup Y (1.74%), and haplogroup Z (1.19%).&lt;ref name = &quot;Jeon2020&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Jeon S, Bhak Y, Choi Y | display-authors = etal | year = 2020 | title = Korean Genome Project: 1094 Korean personal genomes with clinical information | journal = Science Advances | volume = 6 | issue = 22| page = eaaz7835 | doi = 10.1126/sciadv.aaz7835 | pmid = 32766443 | pmc = 7385432 | bibcode = 2020SciA....6.7835J | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt; The individuals sampled for the Korean Genome Project are mostly from the [[Ulsan]] metropolitan region.&lt;ref name = &quot;Jeon2020&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Autosomal DNA ===<br /> Jin Han-jun et al. (1999)&lt;!--The study wrote the first author's name as &quot;Han Jun Jin.&quot; Jin Han-jun is the first author's name in the Korean name ordering.--&gt; said that, based on genetic studies of classic [[genetic marker]]s of [[protein]] and [[nuclear DNA]], Koreans tend to be closely genetically related to Mongols among East Asians, which is supported by the following studies: Goedde et al. (1987); Saha &amp; Tay (1992); Hong et al. (1993); and Nei &amp; Roychoudhury (1993).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 2/6 of the PDF document (page 393).--&gt; The study said that the [[Human mitochondrial genetics|mtDNA]] 9‐[[Base pair|bp]] deletion frequency in the [[wikt:intergenic|intergenic]] ''[[Cytochrome c oxidase subunit II|COII]]/[[Transfer RNA|tRNA]]&lt;sup&gt;[[Lysine|Lys]]&lt;/sup&gt;'' region of Mongols (5.1%) is lower than that of Chinese (14.2%), Japanese (14.3%) and Koreans (15.5%). The study said that these 9‐bp deletion frequencies suggest that Koreans are closely related to Japanese and Chinese and that Koreans are not so closely related to Mongols.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and second sentences of the second paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396). The frequency numbers for Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are in the &quot;9-bp deletion&quot; column of Table 1 of page 4/6 of the PDF document (page 395).--&gt; The study said that the [[Homogeneity and heterogeneity|homogeneity]] in the 9-bp deletion frequencies among Chinese (14.2%), Japanese (14.3%) and Koreans (15.5%), only spanning from a low of 14.2% for Chinese to a high of 15.5% for Koreans, indicates that very few [[Human mitochondrial genetics|mtDNA]] are differentiated in these three populations.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second-to-last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396). The frequency numbers for Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are in the &quot;9-bp deletion&quot; column of Table 1 of page 4/6 of the PDF document (page 395).--&gt; The study said that the 9‐bp deletion frequencies for Vietnamese (23.2%) and [[Indonesians]] (25.0%), which are the two populations constituting Mongoloid Southeast Asians in the study, are relatively high frequencies when compared to the 9-bp deletion frequencies for Mongols(5.1%), Chinese (14.2%), Japanese (14.3%) and Koreans (15.5%), which are the four populations constituting Northeast Asians in the study. The study said that these 9-bp deletion frequencies are consistent with earlier surveys which showed that 9-bp deletion frequencies increase going from Japan to mainland Asia to the [[Malay Peninsula]], which is supported by the following studies: Horai et al. (1987); Hertzberg et al. (1989); Stoneking &amp; Wilson (1989); Horai (1991); Ballinger et al. (1992); Hanihara et al. (1992); and Chen et al. (1995).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second, third and fourth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 4/6 of the PDF document (page 395).--&gt; The study said that [[Genetic distance#Cavalli-Sforza chord distance|Cavalli-Sforza's chord genetic distance (4D)]], from Cavalli-Sforza &amp; Bodmer (1971), which is based on the [[allele]] frequencies of the intergenic ''COII/tRNA&lt;sup&gt;Lys&lt;/sup&gt;'' region, showed that Koreans are more genetically related to Japanese than Koreans are genetically related to the other East Asian populations which were surveyed.&lt;!--The preceding information is in first sentence of the third paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396). The caption in Table 2, which is in page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396), says, &quot;Cavalli-Sforza's cord genetic distance (4D) in the Table body was based on allele frequency in the intergenic ''COII/tRNA&lt;sup&gt;Lys&lt;/sup&gt;'' region.&quot; The caption in Table 2 misspelled the word &quot;chord&quot; as &quot;cord.&quot;--&gt; The Cavalli-Sforza's chord genetic distance (4D) between Koreans and other East Asian populations in the study, from least to greatest, are as follows: Korean to Japanese (0.0019), Korean to Chinese (0.0141), Korean to Vietnamese (0.0265), Korean to Indonesian (0.0316) and Korean to Mongols (0.0403).&lt;!--The preceding information is in Table 2 of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396).--&gt; The study said that the close genetic affinity between present-day Koreans and Japanese is expected due to the [[Yayoi people|Yayoi]] migration from China and the Korean Peninsula to Japan which began about 2,300 years ago, a migration which is supported by the following studies: Chard (1974); Hanihara (1991); Hammer &amp; Horai (1995); Horai et al. (1996); Omoto &amp; Saitou (1997).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second and third sentences of the third paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396).--&gt; The study said that Horai et al. (1996) detected [[Human mitochondrial genetics|mtDNA]] [[D-loop]] variation which supports the idea that a large amount of [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|maternal lineages]] came into Japan from immigrants from the Korean Peninsula after the [[Yayoi period]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second-to-last sentence of the third paragraph of the left column of page 5/6 of the PDF document (page 396).--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;JinHanjun1999&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Jin HJ, Choi JW, Shin DJ, Kim JM, Kim W|year=1999|title=Distribution of length variation of the mtDNA 9‐bp motif in the intergenic COII/tRNALys region in East Asian populations|journal=Korean Journal of Biological Sciences|volume=3|issue=4|pages=393–397|doi=10.1080/12265071.1999.9647513|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Wook&lt;!--The article writes this person's name as &quot;Wook Kim.&quot; &quot;Kim Wook&quot; is this person's name in the Korean name order.--&gt; et al. (2000) said that Chu et al. (1998) found that [[Phylogenetic tree|phylogeny]] which was based on 30 [[microsatellite]]s indicated that Korean people were closely related to Chinese people from [[Manchuria]] and [[Yunnan]], but Kim Wook et al. (2000) found that the high incidence of the DXYS156Y-null variant in northeast Chinese implied that it is possible to exclude these northeastern Chinese populations from being sources which are significant in Korean people.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the sixth sentence which starts with &quot;Interestingly&quot; and the eighth sentence which starts with &quot;The relatively high&quot; of the third paragraph of the left column of page 8/9 of the PDF document (page 82).--&gt; The phylogenetic analysis done by Wook et al. (2000) indicated that Japanese people are genetically closer to Korean people than Japanese people are genetically related to any of the following peoples: Mongolians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Filipinos and Thais. The study said that mainland Japanese having Koreans as their closest genetic population is consistent with the following previous studies: Hammer and Horai (1995); Horai et al. (1996); and Kim et al. (1998).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the ninth sentence which starts with &quot;The phylogeny also indicated&quot; and the tenth sentence which starts with &quot;This result is&quot; which are both in the third paragraph of the left column of page 8/9 of the PDF document (page 82). The &quot;phylogeny&quot; referenced in the ninth sentence refers to the first sentence of the same paragraph which said, &quot;Phylogenetic analysis also reflected a considerable difference between Southeast and Northeast Asian populations (Fig. 3).&quot; The groups indicated by the phrase, &quot;other Asian populations surveyed,&quot; can be seen in Table 1 or Table 2 or Figure 3 or the &quot;DNA samples&quot; section of the &quot;Subjects and methods&quot; section to be Mongolians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indonesians, Filipinos and Thais.--&gt; The study found that Koreans are more genetically [[Homogeneity and heterogeneity|homogenous]] than the Japanese, and the study said that this might be due to different sizes of the [[Founder effect|founding populations]] and [[Colonisation (biology)|range expansions]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first sentence of the first paragraph of the right column of page 8/9 of the PDF document (page 82).--&gt; The study said that the moderate [[mean]] [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromosome haplotype]] diversity value for Koreans might be the result of migrations from East Asia that had a homogenizing influence.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the second paragraph of page 7/9 of the PDF document (page 81). The &quot;Korean variability (0.482)&quot; referenced in that sentence is the same thing as the &quot;diversity values (h)&quot; referenced in the third sentence of the fourth paragraph of the left column of page 6/9 of the PDF document (page 80). The variable &quot;h&quot; is indicated to be &quot;mean haplotype diversity&quot; in second sentence of the fourth paragraph of the right column of page 4/9 of the PDF document (page 78).--&gt; The study said that it is more probable that Koreans descend from dual infusions of Y-chromosomes from two different waves of East Asians rather than a single East Asian population due to the dual patterns of the Y-chromosome haplotype distribution found in Koreans.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the fourth sentence which starts with &quot;These dual patterns of the distribution&quot; and the last sentence of the article's abstract which is on page 2/9 of the PDF document (page 76). The fourth sentence clarifies that the &quot;dual patterns of the haplotype distribution&quot; referenced in the last sentence refers to Koreans.--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kim_2000&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Kim W, Shin DJ, Harihara S, Kim YJ|date=2000|title=Y chromosomal DNA variation in east Asian populations and its potential for inferring the peopling of Korea|journal=Journal of Human Genetics|volume=45|issue=2|pages=76–83|doi=10.1007/s100380050015|pmid=10721667|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Kim Jong-jin&lt;!--The study wrote Kim Jong-jin's name as &quot;Jong-Jin Kim&quot;.--&gt; et al. (2005) did a study about the genetic relationships among East Asians based on [[Allele frequency|allele frequencies]], particularly focusing on how close Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are genetically related to each other.&lt;!--This information is in the first sentence of the article's abstract on page 511 which is page 1/9 of the PDF document. The phrase &quot;particularly focusing on how... are related&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;with a specific focus on the relationships among&quot;.--&gt; Most Koreans were hard to distinguish from Japanese,&lt;!--This information is in the second-to-last sentence of the article's abstract on page 511 which is page 1/9 of the PDF document.--&gt; and the study was not able to clearly distinguish Koreans and Japanese.&lt;!--This information is in the second sentence of the third paragraph of the right column of page 518 which is page 8/9 of the PDF document.--&gt; Koreans and Japanese clustered together in the [[principal component analysis]] and the best [[Least squares|least-squares]] tree.&lt;!--This information is in the third-to-last sentence of the article's abstract on page 511 which is page 1/9 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that &quot;''[c]ommon ancestry and/or extensive gene flow''&quot; historically between Koreans and Japanese appears to be &quot;''likely''&quot; and results in a lot of difficulty finding population-specific alleles that could assist in differentiating Koreans and Japanese.&lt;!--This information is in the fourth sentence of the third paragraph of the right column of page 518 which is page 8/9 of the PDF document. The word &quot;historically&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;throughout history&quot;. The phrase &quot;appears to be&quot; is a rewording of the source text's word &quot;seem&quot;. The phrase &quot;results in a lot of difficulty finding&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;make it very hard to find&quot;. The phrase &quot;assist in differentiating&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;help differentiate&quot;.--&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Kim JJ, Verdu P, Pakstis AJ, Speed WC, Kidd JR, Kidd KK|date=October 2005|title=Use of autosomal loci for clustering individuals and populations of East Asian origin|journal=Human Genetics|volume=117|issue=6|pages=511–9|doi=10.1007/s00439-005-1334-8|pmid=16028061|s2cid=15585215}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Jung Jongsun et al. (2010)&lt;!--The article wrote this person's name as &quot;Jongsun Jung.&quot; &quot;Jung Jongsun&quot; is this person's name in the Korean name ordering.--&gt; used the following Korean samples for a study: Southeast Korean (sample regions: [[Gyeongju]], [[Goryeong County|Goryeong]] and [[Ulsan]]), Middle West Korean (sample regions: [[Jecheon]], [[Yeoncheon County|Yeoncheon]], [[Cheonan]] and [[Pyeongchang County|Pyeongchang]]) and Southwest Korean (sample regions: [[Gimje]], [[Naju]] and [[Jeju Province|Jeju]]).&lt;!--The abbreviations used in the study for the Korean populations (SE Korea, MW Korea &amp; SW Korea) are located in Table 1 which is on page 3/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; Due to political reasons, the study said that it did not use North Korean samples, but the study said that the &quot;''historical migration event of [[Baekje]] from [[Goguryeo]] Empire ([[37 BC|BC 37]]–[[668|AD 668]]) in Northern Korea imply that Northern lineages remain in South Korea.''&quot;&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and second sentences of the second paragraph of the left column of page 5/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that the &quot;''Northern people of the Goguryeo Empire''&quot; are closely related to [[Mongols|Mongolians]], and the study said that this group of people ruled most of Southwest Korea.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and second sentences of the first paragraph of the right column of page 2/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that &quot;''some of the royal families and their subjects in the Goguryeo Empire moved to this region and formed the Baekje Empire in [[18 BC|BC 18]]–[[22 BC|22]].''&quot; Southwest Koreans are closer to Mongolians in the study's [[Gene mapping|genome map]] than the other two Korean regions in the study are close to Mongolians. Southwest Koreans also display genetic connections with the [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] sample of Japanese in [[Tokyo]],&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second, third and fourth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document. The acronym &quot;JPT&quot; refers to the HapMap sample of Japanese in Tokyo, Japan. The last sentence of the second paragraph of the left column of page 3/8 of the PDF document says &quot;JPT (Tokyo),&quot; and Table 1 of the same page says &quot;Japanese HapMap(JPT).&quot;--&gt; and, in the [[neighbor joining]] tree, the [[Clade|nodes]] for Southwest Korea are close to Japan.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document. The abbreviation &quot;NJ&quot; used in that sentence was defined as &quot;Neighbor Joining&quot; in the last sentence of the second paragraph of the right column of page 2/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; In the study's Korea-China-Japan genome map, some Southwest Korean samples overlap with samples from Japan.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and third sentences of the first paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that the fairly close relationship, in both the study's [[genetic structure]] analysis and [[Gene mapping|genome map]], of the [[Jeju Province|Jeju]] Southwest Korean sample and the HapMap sample of Japanese in Tokyo, Japan, has made the evolutionary relationship of Chinese, Japanese and Koreans become clearer.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 5/8 of the PDF document. That sentence's reference to &quot;STRUCTURE results&quot; is explained to be an analysis of genetic structure, &quot;In our analysis of genetics structure by STRUCTURE program,&quot; in the first sentence of the third paragraph of the left column of page 3/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; Southeast Koreans display some genetic similarity with people of [[Kobe]], Japan, which indicates that there might have been links between these regions. The study said that it is possible that [[outlier]]s in the [[Gyeongju]] sample, one of the sampled Southeast Korean regions, and outliers in the Kobe, Japan, sample both have [[Indigenous peoples of Siberia|Siberian]] lineage due to Southeast Koreans having connections with Siberian lineages with respect to grave patterns and culture.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the fifth and sixth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The overall result for the study's Korea-Japan-China genome map indicates that some signals for Siberia remain in Southeast Korea.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document. The sentence construction in the source text's sentence which used the word &quot;respectively&quot; meant that the signals for Mongolia remain in SW Korea and signals for Siberia remain in SE Korea.--&gt; In contrast to the [[Gyeongju]] sample, the [[Goryeong County|Goryeong]] and [[Ulsan]] samples, which are both Southeast Korean samples, displayed average signals for the Korean Peninsula.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The study said that Middle West Korea was a [[melting pot]] in the Korean Peninsula with people traveling from North to South, South to North, and people traveling from [[East China]], including from the [[Shandong Peninsula]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the sixth sentence, which starts with &quot;Model III,&quot; and the seventh sentences of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document. The sixth sentence uses the term &quot;SanDung peninsula&quot; for the Shandong Peninsula. The seventh sentence uses the term &quot;Peking&quot; for &quot;Beijing&quot;.--&gt; [[Western China|Western Chinese]], which included those in the Shandong Peninsula, travelled across the [[Yellow Sea]], and these Western Chinese lived and traded in both China and Korea.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the fourth sentence, the sentence which starts with &quot;Model III,&quot; of the first paragraph of the right column of page 2/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; In the study's genome map, Middle West Koreans are close to the [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] sample of Han Chinese in [[Beijing]]&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second-to-last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document. The acronym &quot;CHB&quot; refers to the HapMap sample of Han Chinese in Beijing, China. The last sentence of the second paragraph of the left column of page 3/8 of the PDF document says &quot;CHB (Peking),&quot; and Table 1 of the same page says &quot;Chinese HapMap(CHB).&quot;--&gt; and, in the [[neighbor joining]] tree, the [[Clade|nodes]] for Middle West Korea are close to China.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the right column of page 3/8 of the PDF document. The abbreviation &quot;NJ&quot; used in that sentence was defined as &quot;Neighbor Joining&quot; in the last sentence of the second paragraph of the right column of page 2/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; The overall result for the study's Korea-Japan-China genome map indicates that Middle West Korea displays an average signal for South Korea.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 4/8 of the PDF document.--&gt; Chinese people are located between Korean and Vietnamese people in the study's [[Gene mapping|genome map]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second-to-last sentence of the first paragraph of the left column of page 5/8 of the PDF document.--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;JungJongsun2010&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|display-authors=6|vauthors=Jung J, Kang H, Cho YS, Oh JH, Ryu MH, Chung HW, Seo JS, Lee JE, Oh B, Bhak J, Kim HL|date=July 2010|title=Gene flow between the Korean peninsula and its neighboring countries|journal=PLOS ONE|volume=5|issue=7|pages=e11855|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0011855|pmc=2912326|pmid=20686617|bibcode=2010PLoSO...511855J}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;!--The Coriell Institute citation is being used to cite that the acronym &quot;CHB,&quot; which was used in Jung Jongsun et al. (2010) in reference to the Chinese HapMap sample from Beijing, was a sample of Han Chinese.--&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=https://www.coriell.org/1/NHGRI/Collections/HapMap-Collections/Han-Chinese-in-Beijing-China-CHB|title=Han Chinese in Beijing, China [CHB].|date=2018|work=Coriell Institute for Medical Research|access-date=27 February 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Kim Young-jin and Jin Han-jun (2013)&lt;!--The study wrote their names as &quot;Young Jin Kim &amp; Han Jun Jin.&quot; Kim Young-jin and Jin Han-jun are their names written in the Korean name ordering.--&gt; said that [[principal component analysis]] had Korean [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] samples clustering with neighboring East Asian populations which were geographically nearby them such as the Chinese and Japanese.&lt;!--This information is in the fifth sentence of the third paragraph of the left column of page 6/12 (page 357). Information about the principal component analysis being performed is in the first sentence of that paragraph.--&gt; The study said that Koreans are genetically closely related to [[Japanese people|Japanese]] in comparison to Koreans' genetic relatedness to other East Asians which included the following East and Southeast Asian peoples: [[Tujia people|Tujia]], [[Miao people|Miao]], [[Daur people|Daur]], [[She people|She]], [[Mongols]], [[Nakhi people|Naxi]], [[Khmer people|Cambodians]], [[Oroqen people|Oroqen]], [[Yakuts]], [[Yi people|Yi]], Southern Han Chinese, Northern Han Chinese, [[Nanai people|Hezhen]], [[Sibe people|Xibo]], [[Lahu people|Lahu]], [[Dai people|Dai]] and [[Monguor people|Tu]]. The study said that the close genetic relatedness of Koreans to Japanese has been reported in the following previous studies: Kivisild et al. (2002); Jin et al. (2003); Jin et al. (2009); and Underhill and Kivisild (2007).&lt;!--The preceding information is in the fifth sentence which starts with &quot;On comparison&quot; of the first paragraph of the left column of page 9/12 of the PDF document (page 360). The other East Asian populations which were compared are listed in the Table 2 of page 8/12 of the PDF document (page 359).--&gt; The study said that Jung et al. (2010) said that there is a genetic substructure in Koreans, but the study said that it found Korean [[International HapMap Project|HapMap]] individuals to be highly genetically similar.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the third-to-last sentence which starts with &quot;Genetic sub-structure&quot; of the first paragraph of the right column of page 9/12 of the PDF document (page 360).--&gt; The study said that Jin et al. (2009) found that Koreans from different populations are not different in a significant way which indicates that Koreans are genetically [[Homogeneity and heterogeneity|homogenous]].&lt;!--The preceding information is in the last sentence of the first paragraph of the right column of page 9/12 of the PDF document (page 360).--&gt; The study said that the affinity of Koreans is predominately Southeast Asian with an estimated admixture of 79% Southeast Asian and 21% Northeast Asian for Koreans, but the study said that this does not mean that Koreans are [[Homogeneity and heterogeneity|heterogenous]], because all of the Koreans which were analyzed uniformly displayed a dual pattern of Northeast Asian and Southeast Asian origins.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second, third and fourth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 9/12 of the PDF document (page 360). On page 10/12 of the PDF document (page 361), Table 3 which lists Koreans' 79% Southeast Asian and 21% Northeast Asian estimated admixture uses the terms &quot;Northeast Asians&quot; and &quot;Southeast Asian&quot; in its title.--&gt; The study said that Koreans and Japanese displayed no observable difference between each other in their proportion of Southeast Asian and Northeast Asian admixture.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the second, third and fourth sentences of the second paragraph of the right column of page 6/12 of the PDF document (page 357). Figure 2 B on page 10/12 of the PDF document (page 361) shows the results referred to in those sentences.--&gt; The study said the 79% Southeast Asian and 21% Northeast Asian admixture estimate for Koreans is consistent with the interpretation of Jin et al. (2009) that Koreans descend from a Northeast Asian population which was subsequently followed by a male-centric migration from the southern region of Asia which changed both the [[Autosome|autosomal]] composition and [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-chromosomes]] in the Korean population.&lt;!--The preceding information is in the first and second sentences of the first paragraph of the left column of page 10/12 (page 361).--&gt;<br /> <br /> Veronika Siska et al. (2017) said that the [[Ulch people|Ulchi people]] are genetically closest in the study's panel to the human remains from the [[Chertovy Vorota Cave|Devil's Gate Cave]] which are dated to about 7,700 years ago.&lt;!--The 7,700 date comes from the second sentence of the &quot;Results&quot; section on page 1 of 10. In that sentence it's written as &quot;~7.7 ka&quot;. In the third sentence of the article's abstract on page 1 of 10, the date is alternatively written as &quot;~7.7 thousand years ago&quot;.--&gt; Modern Korean and Japanese, the [[Oroqen people]] and the [[Nanai people|Hezhen people]] display a high affinity to the human remains from Devil's Gate Cave. Considering the geographic distance of [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Amerindians]] from Devil's Gate Cave, Amerindians are unusually genetically close to the human remains from Devil's Gate Cave. Korean [[genome]]s display similar traits to Japanese genomes on genome-wide [[Single-nucleotide polymorphism|SNP]] data. In an admixture analysis, when the genes of Devil's Gate is made into a unique genetic component, this new Devil's Gate genetic component is highest in peoples of the Amur Basin, including Ulchi, and makes up about more than 50% of Koreans and Japanese. It also has a sporadic distribution among other East Asians, Central Asians and Southeast Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid28164156&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|display-authors=6|vauthors=Siska V, Jones ER, Jeon S, Bhak Y, Kim HM, Cho YS, Kim H, Lee K, Veselovskaya E, Balueva T, Gallego-Llorente M, Hofreiter M, Bradley DG, Eriksson A, Pinhasi R, Bhak J, Manica A|date=February 2017|title=Genome-wide data from two early Neolithic East Asian individuals dating to 7700 years ago|journal=Science Advances|volume=3|issue=2|pages=e1601877|doi=10.1126/sciadv.1601877|pmc=5287702|pmid=28164156|bibcode=2017SciA....3E1877S}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Immunoglobulin G ===<br /> Hideo Matsumoto, professor [[emeritus]] at [[Osaka Medical College]],&lt;!--Matsumoto's credentials are written in small text next to the asterisk one (*1) symbol at the bottom left of page 69 which is page 1/14 of the PDF document. The asterisk one symbol there corresponds to the asterisk one symbol following Hideo Matsumoto's name underneath the title of the article on the same page, indicating that those credentials are Matsumoto's credentials.--&gt; tested Gm types, genetic markers of [[immunoglobulin G]], of Korean populations for a 2009 study.&lt;!--The definition of &quot;Gm&quot; is in the article's abstract on numbered page 69 which is page 1/14 of the PDF document.--&gt; The Korean populations were populations in [[Jeju Island]], [[Busan]], [[Gwangju]], Kongsan, [[Jeonju]], [[Wonju]], the Kannung of South Korea and a Korean population in [[Yanji]].&lt;!--This information is in the first sentence of the last paragraph of the left column of numbered page 71 which is page 3/14 of the PDF document.--&gt; Matsumoto said that the Gm ab3st gene is a marker for northern [[Mongoloid]] possibly originating in Siberia and found at high frequencies across northeast Asia and Tibet&lt;!--This information is in the second sentence of the second paragraph of the left column of numbered page 78 which is page 10/14 of the PDF document.--&gt;. Matsumoto said that the average frequency of Gm ab3st for Koreans was 14.5% which was intermediate between an average frequency of 26% for general Japanese and a frequency of 11.7% which was for a Han Chinese population in [[Beijing]]. Matsumoto said that Gm afb1b3 is a southern marker gene possibly originating in southern China and found at high frequencies across Southeast Asia, southern China, Taiwan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Nepal, Assam and parts of the Pacific. However, given the result that the [[Ryukyuan people|Okinawans]] being genetically most northern among the Japanese with the highest frequency of the Gm ab3st gene which is assigned to be ''northern'', the term ''northern'' and ''southern'' used in his study is controversial. Matsumoto said that the average frequency of Gm afb1b3 for Koreans was 14.7% which was intermediate between a frequency of 10.6% for general Japanese and a frequency of 24.1% for Beijing Han Chinese. Matsumoto said that Koreans displayed the northern Mongoloid pattern, but Matsumoto said that Koreans displayed a higher frequency of the southern marker gene, Gm afb1b3, than the Japanese. Matsumoto said that &quot;''Japanese and Korean populations were originally identical or extremely close to each other''&quot;, and Matsumoto said, &quot;''It seemed to be during the formation of the contemporary Korean population that such a Gm pattern intermediate between Japanese and the northern Han in China emerged.''&quot; Matsumoto said that the different Gm pattern between Japanese and Koreans most likely came about from frequent inflows of Chinese and/or northern populations into the Korean Peninsula.&lt;!--This information is in the section titled &quot;Characteristics of the Korean population&quot;. That section is a paragraph at the bottom of numbered page 71 which is page 3/14 of the PDF document, and this paragraph extends to the top of page 73 which is page 5/14 of the PDF document. The word &quot;inflows&quot; is a rewording of the source text's word &quot;influxes&quot;. The phrase &quot;most likely&quot; is a rewording of the source text's word &quot;probably&quot;. The phrase &quot;average frequency&quot; is a rewording of the source text's phrase &quot;mean frequency&quot; for the 26% frequency.--&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Matsumoto2009&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|vauthors=Matsumoto H|year=2009|title=The origin of the Japanese race based on genetic markers of immunoglobulin G|journal=Proceedings of the Japan Academy. Series B, Physical and Biological Sciences|volume=85|issue=2|pages=69–82|doi=10.2183/pjab.85.69|pmc=3524296|pmid=19212099|bibcode=2009PJAB...85...69M}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Genetic history of Mongolians ==<br /> The [[Mongols]] are an ethnic group in northern China, Mongolia, parts of Siberia and Western Asia. They are believed to be the descendants of the [[Xianbei]] and the [[proto-Mongols]]. The former term includes the Mongols proper (also known as the [[Khalkha Mongols]]), [[Buryats]], [[Oirats]], the [[Kalmyk people]] and the Southern Mongols. The latter comprises the [[Abaga Mongols]], [[Abaganar]], [[Aohans]], [[Baarins]], [[Gorlos Mongols]], [[Jalaids]], [[Jaruud]], [[Khishigten]], [[Khuuchid]], [[Muumyangan]] and [[Onnigud]]. The [[Daur people]] are descendants of the para-Mongolic [[Khitan people]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://china.org.cn/english/2001/Aug/16896.htm|title=DNA Match Solves Ancient Mystery|website=china.org.cn|access-date=2018-12-25}}&lt;/ref&gt; Mongolians are also related to the Manchurians.<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> The majority of Mongolians belong to the y-DNA [[Haplogroup C-M217]]. Haplogroup C-M217 among the Mongols is characterized by very deep total diversity that dates back to the very origin of haplogroup C-M217 (TMRCA 33,900 [95% CI 31,300 &lt;-&gt; 36,500] ybp&lt;ref name = &quot;YFull&quot; /&gt;) and very shallow diversity in each of the frequently observed subclades: C-M504 (TMRCA 2,900 [95% CI 2,200 &lt;-&gt; 3,700] ybp), [[haplogroup C-M48|C-M86]] (TMRCA 3,700 [95% CI 3,000 &lt;-&gt; 4,500] ybp&lt;ref name = &quot;YFull&quot; /&gt;), C-M407 (TMRCA 4,400 [95% CI 3,500 &lt;-&gt; 5,200] ybp&lt;ref name = &quot;YFull&quot; /&gt;), and C-F1756 (TMRCA 5,000 [95% CI 4,200 &lt;-&gt; 5,800] ybp&lt;ref name = &quot;YFull&quot; /&gt;). Of these four subclades, C-M407 is phylogenetically extremely divergent from the others, and is more closely related to subclades of C-M217 that are found among present-day Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and other East and Southeast Asians; however, among Mongols, C-M407 is found most frequently toward the north (among Barghuts&lt;ref name = &quot;Malyarchuk2016&quot;&gt;Boris A Malyarchuk, Miroslava Derenko, Galina Denisova, Marcin Woźniak, Urszula Rogalla, Irina Dambueva, and Tomasz Grzybowski, &quot;Y chromosome haplotype diversity in Mongolic-speaking populations and gene conversion at the duplicated STR DYS385a,b in haplogroup C3-M407.&quot; ''Journal of Human Genetics'' (2016) 61, 491–496; doi:10.1038/jhg.2016.14; published online 25 February 2016.&lt;/ref&gt; and Buryats&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid25711029&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Har'kov VN, Hamina KV, Medvedeva OF, Simonova KV, Eremina ER, Stepanov VA | title = [Gene pool of Buryats: clinal variability and territorial subdivision based on data of Y-chromosome markers] | language = ru | journal = Genetika | volume = 50 | issue = 2 | pages = 203–13 | date = February 2014 | pmid = 25711029 | doi = 10.1134/S1022795413110082 | s2cid = 15595963 }}&lt;/ref&gt; as well as the neighboring [[Khamnigans]] and [[Soyots]]) and toward the west (among Dorbet Kalmyks&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Malyarchuk B, Derenko M, Denisova G, Khoyt S, Woźniak M, Grzybowski T, Zakharov I | title = Y-chromosome diversity in the Kalmyks at the ethnical and tribal levels | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 58 | issue = 12 | pages = 804–11 | date = December 2013 | pmid = 24132124 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.108 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name = &quot;Balinova2019&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Balinova N, Post H, Kushniarevich A, Flores R, Karmin M, Sahakyan H, Reidla M, Metspalu E, Litvinov S, Dzhaubermezov M, Akhmetova V, Khusainova R, Endicott P, Khusnutdinova E, Orlova K, Bakaeva E, Khomyakova I, Spitsina N, Zinchenko R, Villems R, Rootsi S | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosomal analysis of clan structure of Kalmyks, the only European Mongol people, and their relationship to Oirat-Mongols of Inner Asia | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 27 | issue = 9 | pages = 1466–1474 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 30976109 | pmc = 6777519 | doi = 10.1038/s41431-019-0399-0 }}&lt;/ref&gt;).<br /> <br /> [[Haplogroup O-M175]] and [[Haplogroup N-M231]] are found at medium rates among present-day Mongols. The subclades of Haplogroup O-M175 that have been observed among Mongols tend to be similar to those found among Han Chinese, whereas the subclades of Haplogroup N-M231 that have been observed among Mongols tend to be similar to those found among Nenets, Nganasans, Khakasses, and Tuvans (N-B478) on the one hand or those found among Chukchi, Koryaks, and Asian Eskimos on the other (N-B197).&lt;ref name = &quot;Ilumae2016&quot;&gt;{{harvnb|Ilumäe|2016}}&lt;/ref&gt; However, N-M2118, a subclade which is most often noted for its extremely high frequency among present-day populations of [[Yakutia]], has been observed in 21.4% (6/28) of a sample of [[Kalmyks|Kalmyk]] [[Khoshuud|Khoshut]],&lt;ref name = &quot;Balinova2019&quot; /&gt; and N-B525 is also widely observed among Mongols with low frequency. In addition, some members of a wide variety of other Y-DNA haplogroups have been found among present-day Mongols, including [[Haplogroup Q-M242]], [[Haplogroup R-M207]] ([[Haplogroup R-M343#R1b1a1a1 (R-M73)|Haplogroup R1b-M478]], [[Haplogroup R-M269|Haplogroup R1b-M269]], [[Haplogroup R1a|Haplogroup R1a-M17]], [[Haplogroup R-M124|Haplogroup R2a-M124]]), [[Haplogroup D-M174]], [[Haplogroup J-M172|Haplogroup J2a-M410]], [[Haplogroup J-M267|Haplogroup J1-Page8]], [[Haplogroup G-M285|Haplogroup G1-M285]], and [[Haplogroup I-M438#I-M223|Haplogroup I2a2-M436]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/mongols.html|title=Mongol Genetics – DNA of Mongolia's Khalkha Mongolians and others|website=www.khazaria.com|access-date=2018-12-25}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Maternal lineages ===<br /> <br /> The maternal haplogroups are diverse but similar to other northern Asian populations. The most common maternal haplogroups in Mongolians are [[haplogroup D4]], [[Haplogroup A (mtDNA)|Haplogroup A]], and [[Haplogroup B (mtDNA)|Haplogroup B.]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kolman CJ, Sambuughin N, Bermingham E | title = Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Mongolian populations and implications for the origin of New World founders | journal = Genetics | volume = 142 | issue = 4 | pages = 1321–34 | date = April 1996 | pmid = 8846908 | pmc = 1207128 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups [[Haplogroup HV (mtDNA)|Haplogroup HV]], [[Haplogroup U (mtDNA)|Haplogroup U]], [[Haplogroup K (mtDNA)|Haplogroup K]], [[Haplogroup I (mtDNA)|Haplogroup I]], [[Haplogroup J (mtDNA)|Haplogroup J]], represents 14% in western Xingjang Mongolian, 10% in Mongolia, 8.4% in central Inner Mongolian samples, 2% in eastern Xin Barage Zuoqi County samples.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cheng B, Tang W, He L, Dong Y, Lu J, Lei Y, Yu H, Zhang J, Xiao C | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic imprint of the Mongol: signal from phylogeographic analysis of mitochondrial DNA | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 53 | issue = 10 | pages = 905–913 | date = October 2008 | pmid = 18769869 | doi = 10.1007/s10038-008-0325-8 | quote = European-prevalent haplogroups (HV, U, K, I, J) are 14% in western Xingjang Mongolian, 10% in Monglia, 8.4% in central Inner Mongolian samples, and only 2% in eastern Xin Barage Zuoqi County samples, showing decreasing frequencies from west to east | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetic history of Tibetans==<br /> <br /> Modern Tibetan populations are genetically most similar to other modern [[East Asian]] populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot; /&gt; They also show more genetic affinity for modern [[Central Asian]] than modern Siberian populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2016 study found that the Tibetan gene pool diverged from that of [[Han Chinese]] around 15,000 years ago, which can be largely attributed to post-LGM ([[Last Glacial Maximum]]) arrivals. Analysis of around 200 contemporary populations showed that Tibetans share ancestry with populations from East Asia (~82%), Central Asia and Siberia (~11%), South Asia (~6%), and western Eurasia and Oceania (~1%). These results support that Tibetans arose from a mixture of multiple ancestral gene pools but that their origins are much more complicated and ancient than previously suspected.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Lu D, Lou H, Yuan K, Wang X, Wang Y, Zhang C, Lu Y, Yang X, Deng L, Zhou Y, Feng Q, Hu Y, Ding Q, Yang Y, Li S, Jin L, Guan Y, Su B, Kang L, Xu S | display-authors = 6 | title = Ancestral Origins and Genetic History of Tibetan Highlanders | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 99 | issue = 3 | pages = 580–594 | date = September 2016 | pmid = 27569548 | pmc = 5011065 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2016.07.002 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Relationship to other populations ===<br /> A study in 2010 suggested that the majority of the Tibetan gene pool may have diverged from the Zang around 15,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yi X, Liang Y, Huerta-Sanchez E, Jin X, Cuo ZX, Pool JE, Xu X, Jiang H, Vinckenbosch N, Korneliussen TS, Zheng H, Liu T, He W, Li K, Luo R, Nie X, Wu H, Zhao M, Cao H, Zou J, Shan Y, Li S, Yang Q, Ni P, Tian G, Xu J, Liu X, Jiang T, Wu R, Zhou G, Tang M, Qin J, Wang T, Feng S, Li G, Luosang J, Wang W, Chen F, Wang Y, Zheng X, Li Z, Bianba Z, Yang G, Wang X, Tang S, Gao G, Chen Y, Luo Z, Gusang L, Cao Z, Zhang Q, Ouyang W, Ren X, Liang H, Zheng H, Huang Y, Li J, Bolund L, Kristiansen K, Li Y, Zhang Y, Zhang X, Li R, Li S, Yang H, Nielsen R, Wang J, Wang J | display-authors = 6 | title = Sequencing of 50 human exomes reveals adaptation to high altitude | journal = Science | volume = 329 | issue = 5987 | pages = 75–8 | date = July 2010 | pmid = 20595611 | pmc = 3711608 | doi = 10.1126/science.1190371 | df = dmy-all | bibcode = 2010Sci...329...75Y }}&lt;/ref&gt; However, there are possibilities of much earlier human inhabitation of Tibet,&lt;ref name = &quot;Aldenderfer&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Aldenderfer M, Yinong Z |title= The Prehistory of the Tibetan Plateau to the Seventh Century A.D.: Perspectives and Research from China and the West Since 1950|doi=10.1023/B:JOWO.0000038657.79035.9e |volume=18 |issue= 1|journal=Journal of World Prehistory |pages=1–55|date= March 2004 |s2cid= 154022638}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Yuan&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yuan B, Huang W, Zhang D |title= New evidence for human occupation of the northern Tibetan Plateau, China during the Late Pleistocene |doi=10.1007/s11434-007-0357-z |volume=52 |issue= 19 |journal=Chinese Science Bulletin |pages=2675–2679 |date= October 2007 |bibcode= 2007ChSBu..52.2675Y |s2cid= 93228078 }}&lt;/ref&gt; and these early residents may have contributed to the modern Tibetan gene pool.&lt;ref name=&quot;Zhao&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zhao M, Kong QP, Wang HW, Peng MS, Xie XD, Wang WZ, Duan JG, Cai MC, Zhao SN, Tu YQ, Wu SF, Yao YG, Bandelt HJ, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = Mitochondrial genome evidence reveals successful Late Paleolithic settlement on the Tibetan Plateau | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 106 | issue = 50 | pages = 21230–5 | date = December 2009 | pmid = 19955425 | pmc = 2795552 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.0907844106 | df = dmy-all | bibcode = 2009PNAS..10621230Z }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The date of divergence between Tibetans and Sherpas was estimated to have taken place around 11,000 to 7,000 years ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> === Relationship to archaic hominins ===<br /> After modern Oceanic populations, modern Tibetan populations show the highest rate of allele sharing with archaic hominins at over 6%.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt; Modern Tibetans show genetic affinities to three archaic populations: Denisovans, Neanderthals, and an unidentified archaic population.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> In comparison to modern Han populations, modern Tibetans show greater genetic affinity to [[Denisovans]]; however, both the Han and Tibetans have similar ratios of genetic affinity to general [[Neanderthal]] populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Modern Tibetans were identified as the modern population that has the most alleles in common with [[Ust'-Ishim man]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Lu_2016&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineage ===<br /> The distribution of [[Haplogroup D-M174]] (subclade [[Haplogroup D-Z27276]]) is found among nearly all the populations of Central Asia and Northeast Asia south of the Russian border, although generally at a low frequency of 2% or less. A dramatic spike in the frequency of D-M174 occurs as one approaches the [[Tibetan Plateau]]. D-M174 is also found at high frequencies among [[Japanese people]], but it fades into low frequencies in [[Korea]] and [[China proper]] between [[Japan]] and Tibet. The claim that the [[Navajo people]] and Tibetans are related, while [[Dené–Caucasian languages|discussed among linguists]] since [[Edward Sapir]], has not found support in genetic studies. Some light has been shed on their origins, however, by one genetic study in which it was indicated that Tibetan Y-chromosomes had multiple origins, one from Central Asia and the other from East Asia.&lt;ref&gt;Su, Bing, ''et al.'' (2000)&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Genetic history of Turks ==<br /> The Turkic peoples are a collection of [[ethno-linguistic group]]s of [[Central Asia|Central-]], [[East Asia|Eastern-]], [[North Asia|Northern-]] and [[Western Asia|Western-Asia]] as well as parts of [[Europe]] and [[North Africa]]. They speak [[Language family|related languages]] belonging to the [[Turkic languages|Turkic language family]].<br /> <br /> Proposals for the homeland of the Turkic peoples and their language are far-ranging, from the [[Trans-Caspia|Transcaspian steppe]] to [[Northeastern Asia]] ([[Manchuria]]).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Valeev A, Litvinov S, Valiev R, Akhmetova V, Balanovska E, Balanovsky O, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Nymadawa P, Bahmanimehr A, Sahakyan H, Tambets K, Fedorova S, Barashkov N, Khidiyatova I, Mihailov E, Khusainova R, Damba L, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Osipova L, Voevoda M, Yepiskoposyan L, Kivisild T, Khusnutdinova E, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic legacy of the expansion of Turkic-speaking nomads across Eurasia | journal = PLOS Genetics | volume = 11 | issue = 4 | pages = e1005068 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25898006 | pmc = 4405460 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068 | quote = The origin and early dispersal history of the Turkic peoples is disputed, with candidates for their ancient homeland ranging from the Transcaspian steppe to Manchuria in Northeast Asia, }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Yunusbayev, genetic evidence points to an origin in the region near [[South Central Siberia|South Siberia]] and [[Mongolia]] as the &quot;Inner Asian Homeland&quot; of the Turkic ethnicity.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Valeev A, Litvinov S, Valiev R, Akhmetova V, Balanovska E, Balanovsky O, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Nymadawa P, Bahmanimehr A, Sahakyan H, Tambets K, Fedorova S, Barashkov N, Khidiyatova I, Mihailov E, Khusainova R, Damba L, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Osipova L, Voevoda M, Yepiskoposyan L, Kivisild T, Khusnutdinova E, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic legacy of the expansion of Turkic-speaking nomads across Eurasia | journal = PLOS Genetics | volume = 11 | issue = 4 | pages = e1005068 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25898006 | pmc = 4405460 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068 | quote = &quot;Thus, our study provides the first genetic evidence supporting one of the previously hypothesized IAHs to be near Mongolia and South Siberia.&quot; }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Authors Joo-Yup Lee and Shuntu Kuang analyzed 10 years of genetic research on Turkic people and compiled scholarly information about Turkic origins, and said that the early and medieval Turks were a heterogeneous group and that the Turkification of Eurasia was a result of language diffusion, not a migration of homogeneous population.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Lee |first1=Joo-Yup |first2=Shuntu |last2=Kuang | name-list-style = vanc |title=A Comparative Analysis of Chinese Historical Sources and y-dna Studies with Regard to the Early and Medieval Turkic Peoples |journal=Inner Asia |date=Oct 2017 |volume=19 |issue=2 |pages=197–239 |doi=10.1163/22105018-12340089}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;references group=&quot;note&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> === Paternal lineages ===<br /> <br /> Common Y-DNA haplogroups in Turkic peoples are [[Haplogroup N-M231]] (found with especially high frequency among Turkic peoples living in present-day [[Russia]]), [[Haplogroup C-M217]] (especially in [[Central Asia]] and, in particular, [[Kazakhstan]]), [[Haplogroup Q-M242]] (especially in [[Southern Siberia]] and among [[Turkmens]] and the Qangly [[Kazakh tribes|tribe of Kazakhs]]), and [[Haplogroup O-M175]] (especially among Turkic peoples living in present-day [[China]] and the Naiman [[Kazakh tribes|tribe of Kazakhs]]). Some groups also have [[Haplogroup R1b]] (notably frequent among the [[Teleuts]] and [[Kumandins]] of Southern Siberia, the [[Bashkirs]] of the Southern [[Ural Mountains|Ural]] region of [[Russia]], and the [[Kipchaks|Qypshaq]] [[Kazakh tribes|tribe of Kazakhs]]), [[Haplogroup R1a]] (notably frequent among the [[Kyrgyz people|Kyrgyz]], [[Altai people|Altaians]], and several other Turkic peoples living in present-day Russia), [[Haplogroup J-M172]] (especially frequent among [[Uyghurs]], [[Uzbeks]], [[Azerbaijanis]], and [[Turkish people]]), and [[Haplogroup D-M174]] (especially among [[Yugurs]], but also observed regularly with low frequency among [[Uyghurs]], [[Altai people|Southern Altaians]], [[Nogai people|Nogais]], [[Kazakhs]], and [[Uzbeks]]).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Zerjal T, Wells RS, Yuldasheva N, Ruzibakiev R, Tyler-Smith C | title = A genetic landscape reshaped by recent events: Y-chromosomal insights into central Asia | language = en | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 71 | issue = 3 | pages = 466–82 | date = September 2002 | pmid = 12145751 | pmc = 419996 | doi = 10.1086/342096 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kumar2012&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Kumar |first1=Dhavendra | name-list-style = vanc |title=Genomics and Health in the Developing World |date=11 May 2012 |publisher=Oxford University Press |location=Oxford, England |isbn=978-0199705474 |pages=1265–1267 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Anatolian/European Turks ===<br /> The modern Turkic groups in [[Anatolia]] ([[Turkey]]) and [[Europe]] have less relation to East-Asian groups than their Central-Asian relatives. Various studies estimate about 15-30% East-Asian lineages in Anatolian/European Turks with the average at 21.7%.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Alkan C, Kavak P, Somel M, Gokcumen O, Ugurlu S, Saygi C, Dal E, Bugra K, Güngör T, Sahinalp SC, Özören N, Bekpen C | title = Whole genome sequencing of Turkish genomes reveals functional private alleles and impact of genetic interactions with Europe, Asia and Africa | journal = BMC Genomics | volume = 15 | issue = 1 | pages = 963 | date = November 2014 | pmid = 25376095 | pmc = 4236450 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2164-15-963 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> A study in 2015 found that &quot;''Previous genetic studies have generally used Turks as representatives of ancient populations from Turkey. Our results show that Turks are genetically shifted towards modern Central Asians, a pattern consistent with a history of mixture with populations from this region''&quot;. The authors found &quot;7.9% (±0.4) East Asian ancestry in Turks from admixture occurring 800 (±170) years ago.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|first1=Chris|last1=Tyler-Smith|first2=Pierre|last2=Zalloua|first3=Paolo|last3=Gasparini|first4=David|last4=Comas|title=Genetic evidence for an origin of the Armenians from Bronze Age mixing of multiple populations|journal=European Journal of Human Genetics|date=2016 |issn=1476-5438|pages=931–936|volume=24|issue=6|doi=10.1038/ejhg.2015.206|pmid=26486470|pmc=4820045|first5=Yali|last5=Xue|first6=Massimo|last6=Mezzavilla|first7=Marc|last7=Haber}}&lt;/ref&gt; A 2019 study found that Turkish people cluster with Southern and Mediterranean Europe populations along with groups in the northern part of Southwest Asia (such as the populations from [[Caucasus]], Northern Iraq, and Iranians).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Pakstis |first1=Andrew J. |last2=Gurkan |first2=Cemal |last3=Dogan |first3=Mustafa |last4=Balkaya |first4=Hasan Emin |last5=Dogan |first5=Serkan |last6=Neophytou |first6=Pavlos I. |last7=Cherni |first7=Lotfi |last8=Boussetta |first8=Sami |last9=Khodjet-El-Khil |first9=Houssein |last10=Ben Ammar ElGaaied |first10=Amel |last11=Salvo |first11=Nina Mjølsnes |last12=Janssen |first12=Kirstin |last13=Olsen |first13=Gunn-Hege |last14=Hadi |first14=Sibte |last15=Almohammed |first15=Eida Khalaf |last16=Pereira |first16=Vania |last17=Truelsen |first17=Ditte Mikkelsen |last18=Bulbul |first18=Ozlem |last19=Soundararajan |first19=Usha |last20=Rajeevan |first20=Haseena |last21=Kidd |first21=Judith R. |last22=Kidd |first22=Kenneth K. |title=Genetic relationships of European, Mediterranean, and SW Asian populations using a panel of 55 AISNPs |journal=European Journal of Human Genetics |date=December 2019 |volume=27 |issue=12 |pages=1885–1893 |doi=10.1038/s41431-019-0466-6 |pmid=31285530 |pmc=6871633 |language=en |issn=1476-5438|doi-access=free }}&lt;/ref&gt; Another study found the [[Circassians]] are closest to the Turkish population among sampled European (French, Italian, Sardinian), Middle Eastern (Druze, Palestinian), and Central (Kyrgyz, Hazara, Uygur), South (Pakistani), and East Asian (Mongolian, Han) populations.&lt;ref name=Hodoglugil_et_al&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Hodoğlugil |first1=U. U. |last2=Mahley |first2=R. W. |doi=10.1111/j.1469-1809.2011.00701.x |title=Turkish Population Structure and Genetic Ancestry Reveal Relatedness among Eurasian Populations |journal=Annals of Human Genetics |volume=76 |issue=2 |pages=128–141 |year=2012 |pmid=22332727 |pmc=4904778}}&lt;/ref&gt; Another 2019 study found that Turkish people have the lowest [[Fixation index|Fst distances]] with Caucasus population group and Iranian-Syrian group, compared to East-Central European, European (including Northern and Eastern European), Sardinian, Roma, and Turkmen groups or populations. Caucasus group in the study included samples from &quot;Abkhazians, Adygey, Armenians, Balkars, Chechens, Georgians, Kumyks, Kurds, Lezgins, Nogays, and North Ossetia.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Banfai_et_al_2019&quot;&gt;{{cite journal| author=Bánfai Z, Melegh BI, Sümegi K, Hadzsiev K, Miseta A, Kásler M | display-authors=etal| title=Revealing the Genetic Impact of the Ottoman Occupation on Ethnic Groups of East-Central Europe and on the Roma Population of the Area. | journal=Front Genet | year= 2019 | volume= 10 | pages= 558 | pmid=31263480 | doi=10.3389/fgene.2019.00558 | pmc=6585392 | url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/eutils/elink.fcgi?dbfrom=pubmed&amp;tool=sumsearch.org/cite&amp;retmode=ref&amp;cmd=prlinks&amp;id=31263480 }} &lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study involving mitochondrial analysis of a [[Byzantine|Byzantine-era]] population, whose samples were gathered from excavations in the archaeological site of [[Sagalassos]], found that Sagalassos samples were closest to modern samples from &quot;Turkey, Crimea, Iran and Italy (Campania and Puglia), Cyprus and the Balkans (Bulgaria, Croatia and Greece).&quot;&lt;ref name=Ottoni_et_al&gt;{{Cite journal | last1 = Ottoni | first1 = C. | last2 = Ricaut | first2 = F. O. X. | last3 = Vanderheyden | first3 = N. | last4 = Brucato | first4 = N. | last5 = Waelkens | first5 = M. | last6 = Decorte | first6 = R. | doi = 10.1038/ejhg.2010.230 | title = Mitochondrial analysis of a Byzantine population reveals the differential impact of multiple historical events in South Anatolia | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 19 | issue = 5 | pages = 571–576 | year = 2011 | pmid = 21224890| pmc =3083616 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Modern-day samples from the nearby town of Ağlasun showed that lineages of East Eurasian descent assigned to macro-haplogroup M were found in the modern samples from Ağlasun. This haplogroup is significantly more frequent in Ağlasun (15%) than in Byzantine Sagalassos, but the study concluded that there is &quot;no genetic discontinuity across two millennia in the region.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|title=Comparing maternal genetic variation across two millennia reveals the demographic history of an ancient human population in southwest Turkey|journal=Royal Society Open Science|volume=3|issue=2|pages=150250|doi=10.1098/rsos.150250|pmid = 26998313|pmc=4785964|year = 2016|last1 = Ottoni|first1 = Claudio|last2 = Rasteiro|first2 = Rita|last3 = Willet|first3 = Rinse|last4 = Claeys|first4 = Johan|last5 = Talloen|first5 = Peter|last6 = Van De Vijver|first6 = Katrien|last7 = Chikhi|first7 = Lounès|last8 = Poblome|first8 = Jeroen|last9 = Decorte|first9 = Ronny|bibcode = 2016RSOS....350250O}}&lt;/ref&gt; Another study concluded that the true Central Asian contributions to Anatolia was 13% for males and 22% for females (with wide ranges of [[Confidence interval|confidence intervals]]), and<br /> the language replacement in Turkey and Azerbaijan might not have been in accordance with the elite dominance model.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite thesis |last=Berkman |first=Ceren Caner |date=September 2006 |title=Comparative Analyses For The Central Asian Contribution To Anatolian Gene Pool With Reference To Balkans |type=PhD |url=http://etd.lib.metu.edu.tr/upload/12607764/index.pdf |access-date= 30 October 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Be that as it may, the most common male haplogroup in Anatolia is [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|J2]]=24% - J2 (M172)&lt;ref name=&quot;cinnioglu 2004&quot; /&gt; J-M172 (or J2) may reflect the spread of Anatolian farmers.&lt;ref name=&quot;Semino_et_al_2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal| author=Semino O, Magri C, Benuzzi G, Lin AA, Al-Zahery N, Battaglia V | display-authors=etal| title=Origin, diffusion, and differentiation of Y-chromosome haplogroups E and J: inferences on the neolithization of Europe and later migratory events in the Mediterranean area. | journal=Am J Hum Genet | year= 2004 | volume= 74 | issue= 5 | pages= 1023-34 | pmid=15069642 | doi=10.1086/386295 | pmc=1181965 | url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/eutils/elink.fcgi?dbfrom=pubmed&amp;tool=sumsearch.org/cite&amp;retmode=ref&amp;cmd=prlinks&amp;id=15069642 }} &lt;/ref&gt; J2-M172 is &quot;mainly confined to the Mediterranean coastal areas, southeastern Europe and Anatolia&quot;, as well as West Asia and Central Asia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |doi=10.1038/jhg.2010.30|pmid=20414255|title=Y-chromosome distributions among populations in Northwest China identify significant contribution from Central Asian pastoralists and lesser influence of western Eurasians|journal=Journal of Human Genetics|volume=55|issue=5|pages=314–22|year=2010|last1=Shou|first1=Wei-Hua|last2=Qiao|first2=En-Fa|last3=Wei|first3=Chuan-Yu|last4=Dong|first4=Yong-Li|last5=Tan|first5=Si-Jie|last6=Shi|first6=Hong|last7=Tang|first7=Wen-Ru|last8=Xiao|first8=Chun-Jie|doi-access=free}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Relationship to other Asian groups ==<br /> ===Central Asians===<br /> {{See also|History of Central Asia#Medieval}}<br /> The genetic evidence suggests that the [[Turkification]] of Central Asia was carried out by [[East Asian people|East Asian]] [[Dominant minority|dominant minorities]] migrating out of Mongolia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Damgaard PB, Marchi N, Rasmussen S, Peyrot M, Renaud G, Korneliussen T, Moreno-Mayar JV, Pedersen MW, Goldberg A, Usmanova E, Baimukhanov N, Loman V, Hedeager L, Pedersen AG, Nielsen K, Afanasiev G, Akmatov K, Aldashev A, Alpaslan A, Baimbetov G, Bazaliiskii VI, Beisenov A, Boldbaatar B, Boldgiv B, Dorzhu C, Ellingvag S, Erdenebaatar D, Dajani R, Dmitriev E, Evdokimov V, Frei KM, Gromov A, Goryachev A, Hakonarson H, Hegay T, Khachatryan Z, Khaskhanov R, Kitov E, Kolbina A, Kubatbek T, Kukushkin A, Kukushkin I, Lau N, Margaryan A, Merkyte I, Mertz IV, Mertz VK, Mijiddorj E, Moiyesev V, Mukhtarova G, Nurmukhanbetov B, Orozbekova Z, Panyushkina I, Pieta K, Smrčka V, Shevnina I, Logvin A, Sjögren KG, Štolcová T, Taravella AM, Tashbaeva K, Tkachev A, Tulegenov T, Voyakin D, Yepiskoposyan L, Undrakhbold S, Varfolomeev V, Weber A, Wilson Sayres MA, Kradin N, Allentoft ME, Orlando L, Nielsen R, Sikora M, Heyer E, Kristiansen K, Willerslev E | display-authors = 6 | title = 137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes | journal = Nature | volume = 557 | issue = 7705 | pages = 369–374 | date = May 2018 | pmid = 29743675 | doi = 10.1038/s41586-018-0094-2 | bibcode = 2018Natur.557..369D | s2cid = 13670282 | url = https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0094-2 }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to a recent study, the Turkic Central Asian populations, such as Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, and Turkmens share more of their gene pool with various East Asian and Siberian populations than with West Asian or European populations. The study further suggests that both migration and linguistic assimilation helped to spread the Turkic languages in Eurasia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Yunusbayev B, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Valeev A, Litvinov S, Valiev R, Akhmetova V, Balanovska E, Balanovsky O, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Nymadawa P, Bahmanimehr A, Sahakyan H, Tambets K, Fedorova S, Barashkov N, Khidiyatova I, Mihailov E, Khusainova R, Damba L, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Osipova L, Voevoda M, Yepiskoposyan L, Kivisild T, Khusnutdinova E, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = The genetic legacy of the expansion of Turkic-speaking nomads across Eurasia | journal = PLOS Genetics | volume = 11 | issue = 4 | pages = e1005068 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25898006 | pmc = 4405460 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===North Asians===<br /> {{Expand section|date=August 2020}}<br /> <br /> ===South Asians===<br /> {{Main|Genetic history of South Asia}}<br /> According to a genetic research (2015) including linguistic analyses, suggests an [[East Asia|East Asian]] origin for proto-Austroasiatic groups, which first migrated to Southeast Asia and later into India.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Ness, there are three broad theories on the origins of the Austroasiatic speakers, namely northeastern India, central or southern China, or southeast Asia.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}} Multiple researches indicate that the Austroasiatic populations in India are derived from (mostly male dominated) migrations from southeast Asia during the Holocene.{{sfn|van Driem|2007}}{{sfn|Chaubey|2011}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot; /&gt;{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;!--** START OF NOTE **--&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;ASI-AAA&quot;|Nevertheless, according to Basu et al. (2016), the AAA were early settlers in India, related to the ASI: &quot;The absence of significant resemblance with any of the neighboring populations is indicative of the ASI and the AAA being early settlers in India, possibly arriving on the “southern exit” wave out of Africa. Differentiation between the ASI and the AAA possibly took place after their arrival in India (ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population in SI Appendix, Fig. S2).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}}}&lt;!--** END OF NOTE **--&gt; According to Van Driem (2007), &quot;...the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot;{{sfn|van Driem|2007|p=7}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey et al. (2011), &quot;Austroasiatic speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;{{sfn|Chaubey|2011}} According to Zhang et al. (2015), Austroasiatic (male) migrations from southeast Asia into India took place after the lates Glacial maximum, circa 10,000 years ago.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Arunkumar et al. (2015), Y-chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, which is typical for Austrosiatic speaking peoples, clearly decreases from Laos to east India, with &quot;a serial decrease in expansion time from east to west,&quot; namely &quot;5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India.&quot; This suggests &quot;a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first = Miguel | last = Vilar | name-list-style = vanc | date = 2015 | url = http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ | title = DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India | work = National Geographic }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Riccio et al. (2011), the Munda people are likely descended from Austroasiatic migrants from southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Riccio ME, Nunes JM, Rahal M, Kervaire B, Tiercy JM, Sanchez-Mazas A | title = The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study | journal = Human Biology | volume = 83 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–35 | date = June 2011 | pmid = 21740156 | doi = 10.3378/027.083.0306 | s2cid = 39428816 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Alejandro | last1 = Gutman | first2 = Beatriz | last2 = Avanzati | name-list-style = vanc | work = The Language Gulper | url = http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Austroasiatic.html | title = Austroasiatic Languages }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Ness, the Khasi probably migrated into India in the first millennium BCE.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}}<br /> <br /> ===Southeast Asians===<br /> A 2020 genetic study about Southeast Asian populations in 2020 (Liu et al. 2020), found that mostly all Southeast Asians are closely related to East Asians and have mostly &quot;East Asian-related&quot; ancestry. [[Austronesian peoples|Austronesian]] and [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic speaking populations]] of [[Southeast Asia]] were found to have mostly East Asian-related ancestry (89% to 96%) and minor [[Onge people|Onge-related]] ancestry (1% to 11%). Additionally they found evidence for ancient gene flow from East Asian-related groups into the [[Andamanese|Andamanese people]]. Andamanese (Onge) were found to have about 30% East Asian-related ancestry next to their original Negrito ancestry. [[Taiwanese indigenous peoples]] had on average 99% East Asian-related ancestry. [[Kra-Dai]] speaking populations had, similar to the Taiwanese indigenous peoples, nearly exclusively East Asian-related ancestry.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Liu D, Duong NT, Ton ND, Van Phong N, Pakendorf B, Van Hai N, Stoneking M | title = Extensive ethnolinguistic diversity in Vietnam reflects multiple sources of genetic diversity | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | date = April 2020 | volume = 37 | issue = 9 | pages = 2503–2519 | pmid = 32344428 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msaa099 | url = https://academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msaa099/5821431 | doi-access = free }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Notes ==<br /> {{reflist|group=note}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> <br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = He G, Wang Z, Guo J, Wang M, Zou X, Tang R, Liu J, Zhang H, Li Y, Hu R, Wei LH, Chen G, Wang CC, Hou Y | display-authors = 6 | title = Inferring the population history of Tai-Kadai-speaking people and southernmost Han Chinese on Hainan Island by genome-wide array genotyping | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 28 | issue = 8 | pages = 1111–1123 | date = August 2020 | pmid = 32123326 | doi = 10.1038/s41431-020-0599-7 | url = https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339632918 | s2cid = 211729663 }}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> {{Human genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:East Asian people]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945538910 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-14T16:58:08Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrito&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last year claiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African/Archic ancestry, and not Asians. It claims that modern humans originated in hunan province of China, and that they found Chinese ancestry in Africans (recent Shum Lake paper didn't mention this part lol). There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-reviewed. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, one of them is on several pages. He is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)<br /> I have removed them for now.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 23:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945439364 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T23:57:15Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrito&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last year claiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African/Archic ancestry, and not Asians. It claims That modern humans originated in hunan province of China, and that they found Chinese ancestry in Africans (recent Shum Lake paper didn't mention this part lol). There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, one of them is on several pages. He is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)<br /> I have removed them for now.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 23:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dravidian_peoples&diff=945435960 Dravidian peoples 2020-03-13T23:27:44Z <p>Ilber8000: See talk page sock puppet, misinterpretation of source</p> <hr /> <div>{{Other uses|Dravidian (disambiguation)}}<br /> {{Cleanup|date=August 2019|reason=The article is full of incorrect capitalization.}}{{short description|ethnic group}}<br /> {{Use British English|date=March 2013}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=March 2013}}{{Use Indian English|date = August 2019}}<br /> <br /> {{Infobox language family<br /> |name = Dravidian<br /> |region = [[South Asia]] and parts of [[Southeast Asia]], mainly [[South India]] and [[Sri Lanka]]<br /> |familycolor = Dravidian<br /> |family = One of the world's primary [[language families]]<br /> |protoname = [[Proto-Dravidian language|Proto-Dravidian]]<br /> |child1 = Northern<br /> |child2 = Central<br /> |child3 = Southern<br /> |iso2 = dra<br /> |iso5 = dra<br /> |lingua = 49= (phylozone)<br /> |glotto = drav1251<br /> |glottorefname = Dravidian<br /> |map = Dravidian subgroups.png<br /> |mapcaption = Distribution of subgroups of Dravidian languages:&lt;br&gt;{{col-begin}}<br /> {{col-2}}<br /> {{legend|#7BDE7B|Northern}}<br /> {{legend|#FEE28C|Central}}<br /> {{col-2}}<br /> {{legend|#FE9C62|South-Central}}<br /> {{legend|#FE6262|Southern}}<br /> {{col-end}}<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{Infobox ethnic group<br /> | caption = Dravidian speakers in South Asia<br /> | group = Dravidian people<br /> |image = Dravidian map.svg<br /> | pop = approx. '''245 million'''<br /> | languages = [[Dravidian languages]]<br /> | religions = Predominantly [[Hinduism]], [[Dravidian folk religion]] and others: [[Jainism]], [[Buddhism]], [[Islam]], [[Christianity]], [[Judaism]]<br /> | related =<br /> | native_name =<br /> | native_name_lang =<br /> }}<br /> {{Dravidian}}<br /> <br /> '''Dravidian people''' or '''Dravidians''' are the present and past speakers of any of the [[Dravidian languages]]. There are around 245 million native speakers of Dravidian languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;West2010&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=West |first=Barbara A. |title=Encyclopedia of the People of Asia and Oceania |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=pCiNqFj3MQsC&amp;pg=PA193 |accessdate=18 October 2016 |date=19 May 2010 |publisher=Infobase Publishing |isbn=978-1-4381-1913-7 |pages=193–194}}&lt;/ref&gt; Dravidian speakers form the majority of the population of [[South India]] and are natively found in [[India]], [[Pakistan]], [[Afghanistan]],&lt;ref name=&quot;LouisSteever2015&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Louis |first1=Rosenblatt |authorlink1=Rosenblatt Louis |last2=Steever |first2=Sanford B. |title=The Dravidian Languages |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=n2DxBwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA388 |accessdate=18 October 2016 |date=15 April 2015 |publisher=Routledge |isbn=978-1-136-91164-4 |page=388}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Bangladesh]], the [[Giraavaru people|Maldives]] and [[Sri Lanka]].&lt;ref name=&quot;SwanSmith2001&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Swan |first1=Michael |authorlink1=Michael Swan (writer) |last2=Smith |first2=Bernard |authorlink2=Bernard Smith (art historian) |title=Learner English: A Teacher's Guide to Interference and Other Problems |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=6UIuWj9fQfQC&amp;pg=PA227 |accessdate=18 October 2016 |date=26 April 2001 |publisher=[[Cambridge University Press]] |isbn=978-0-521-77939-5 |page=227}}&lt;/ref&gt; Dravidians are also present in [[Singapore]] or the [[United Arab Emirates]] through recent migration.<br /> <br /> [[Proto-Dravidian language|Proto-Dravidian]] may have been spoken in the Indus civilization, suggesting a &quot;tentative date of Proto-Dravidian around the early part of the third millennium&quot;,{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501}} after which it branched into various Dravidian languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;books.google.com&quot;&gt;[https://books.google.com/books?id=chvjAAAAMAAJ&amp;q=the+proto-+Dravidian+linguistic+community+disintegrated+at+the+beginning+of+the+4th+millennium+B.+C&amp;dq=the+proto-+Dravidian+linguistic+community+disintegrated+at+the+beginning+of+the+4th+millennium+B.+C&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y History and Archaeology, Volume 1, Issues 1-2] p.234, Department of Ancient History, Culture, and Archaeology, University of Allahabad&lt;/ref&gt; South Dravidian I (including pre-[[Tamil language|Tamil]]) and South Dravidian II (including pre-[[Telugu language|Telugu]]) split around the eleventh century BCE, with the other major branches splitting off at around the same time.{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501-502}}<br /> <br /> The origins of the Dravidians are a &quot;very complex subject of research and debate&quot;.&lt;ref name=&quot;Tudu2008_p.400&quot;&gt;{{cite book|year=2008|title=Encyclopedia of the African Diaspora: Origins, Experiences, and Culture [3 volumes]: Origins, Experiences, and Culture|page=400|author=Horen Tudu|editor=Carole Elizabeth Boyce Davies|publisher=ABC-CLIO|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=nkVxNVvex-sC&amp;pg=PA400&amp;dq=dravidian|isbn=9781851097050}}&lt;/ref&gt; They may have been indigenous to the [[Indian subcontinent]],&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |title=Ancient India: A History of the Indian Sub-Continent from C. 7000 BC to AD 1200 |page=13 |author=Burjor Avari |publisher=Routledge}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Masica_p39&quot;&gt;{{cite book |title=The Indo-Aryan Languages |page=39 |publisher=Cambridge University |author=Colin P. Masica}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kopstein_p345&quot;&gt;{{cite book |year=2005 |title=Comparative Politics: Interests, Identities, and Institutions in a Changing Global Order |page=345 |author=Jeffrey Kopstein, Mark Lichbach |publisher=Cambridge University}}&lt;/ref&gt; but origins in, or influence from, West-Asia have also been proposed.{{sfnp|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|pp=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;/&gt;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}}{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}}{{sfn|Samuel|2008|p=54 note 15}} Their origins are often viewed as being connected with the [[Indus Valley Civilisation]],&lt;ref name=&quot;Tudu2008_p.400&quot;/&gt;{{sfn|Samuel|2008|p=54 note 15}}{{sfn|Parpola|2015}} hence people and language spread east- and southwards after the demise of the Indus Valley Civilisation in the early second millennium BCE,{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}&lt;ref name=&quot;scientificamerican.com&quot;/&gt; concurrently with the arrival of Indo-Aryan speakers,&lt;ref name=&quot;The Dravidianization of India&quot;&gt;Razab Khan, [https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/01/18/t/ ''The Dravidianization of India'']&lt;/ref&gt; with whom they intensively interacted.&lt;ref name=&quot;britannicaOnline&quot;/&gt; Some recent DNA evidence indicates a linkage between a corpse found in the Harappan site of Rakhigarhi in Haryana.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|url=https://www.natureasia.com/en/nindia/article/10.1038/nindia.2019.121|title=Where did the Indus Valley people come from?|website=Nature India|doi=10.1038/nindia.2019.121|access-date=2020-01-05|doi-broken-date=2020-01-07}}&lt;/ref&gt; From these interactions and migrations arose eventually the so-called &quot;Hindus synthesis&quot;, after 500 BCE.{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}<br /> <br /> The third century BCE onwards saw the development of large kingdoms in South India. Medieval South Indian guilds and trading organisations like the &quot;Ayyavole of Karnataka and Manigramam&quot; played an important role in the Southeast Asia trade,&lt;ref name=&quot;World p.293&quot;&gt;The Emporium of the World: Maritime Quanzhou, 1000-1400 by Angela Schottenhammer p.293&lt;/ref&gt; and the [[Greater India|cultural Indianisation]] of the region.<br /> <br /> Dravidian visual art is dominated by [[Dravidian architecture|stylised temple architecture]] in major centres, and the production of images on stone and bronze sculptures. The sculpture dating from the [[Chola art|Chola period]] has become notable as a symbol of [[Hinduism]].<br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> {{Main|Dravidian languages#Etymology}}<br /> The origin of the Sanskrit word ''{{IAST|drāviḍa}}'' is [[Tamil language|Tamil]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |title=Tamil |last=Shulman |first=David |publisher=[[Harvard University Press]] |year= |isbn= |location= |pages=5}}&lt;/ref&gt; In [[Prakrit]], words such as &quot;Damela&quot;, &quot;Dameda&quot;, &quot;Dhamila&quot; and &quot;Damila&quot;, which later evolved from &quot;Tamila&quot;, could have been used to denote an ethnic identity.&lt;ref name=&quot;Ancient India&quot;&gt;{{cite book |author1=RC Majumdar |authorlink1=RC Majumdar |year=1977 |title=Ancient India |publisher=Motilal Banarsidass |isbn=978-81-208-0436-4 |page=18 |chapter=Dravidians}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{Failed verification|date=September 2019}} In the Sanskrit tradition the word ''{{IAST|drāviḍa}}'' was also used to denote the geographical region of South India.&lt;ref name=&quot;Zvelebil 1990 xx&quot;&gt;{{harvnb|Zvelebil|1990|p=xx}}&lt;/ref&gt; Epigraphic evidence of an ethnic group termed as such is found in ancient India where a number of inscriptions have come to light datable from the 6th to the 5th century BCE mentioning ''Damela'' or ''Dameda'' persons. The [[Hathigumpha inscription]] of the [[Kalinga (historical kingdom)|Kalinga]] ruler [[Kharavela]] refers to a ''T(ra)mira samghata'' (Confederacy of Tamil rulers) dated to 150 BCE. It also mentions that the league of Tamil kingdoms had been in existence for 113 years by that time.&lt;ref name=&quot;KI157&quot;&gt;Indrapala, K ''The Evolution of an ethnic identity: The Tamils of Sri Lanka'', pp.155-156&lt;/ref&gt; In [[Amaravathi village, Guntur district|Amaravati]] in present-day [[Andhra Pradesh]] there is an inscription referring to a ''Dhamila-vaniya'' (Tamil trader) datable to the 3rd century CE.&lt;ref name=&quot;KI157&quot; /&gt; Another inscription of about the same time in [[Nagarjunakonda]] seems to refer to a ''Damila''. A third inscription in [[Kanheri Caves]] refers to a ''Dhamila-gharini'' (Tamil house-holder). In the [[Buddhist]] [[Jataka]] story known as ''Akiti Jataka'' there is a mention to ''Damila-rattha'' (Tamil dynasty).<br /> <br /> While the English word ''Dravidian'' was first employed by [[Robert Caldwell]] in his book of comparative Dravidian grammar based on the usage of the Sanskrit word ''{{IAST|drāviḍa}}'' in the work ''Tantravārttika'' by {{IAST|Kumārila Bhaṭṭa}},&lt;ref name=&quot;Zvelebil 1990 xx&quot;/&gt; the word ''{{IAST|drāviḍa}}'' in Sanskrit has been historically used to denote geographical regions of Southern India as whole. Some theories concern the direction of derivation between ''{{IAST|tamiẓ}}'' and ''{{IAST|drāviḍa}}''; such linguists as Zvelebil assert that the direction is from ''{{IAST|tamiẓ}}'' to ''{{IAST|drāviḍa}}''.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Zvelebil|1990|p=xxi}}&lt;/ref&gt; The modern word ''Dravidian'' is devoid of any ethnic significance, and is only used to classify a [[linguistic]] family of the referred group.&lt;ref name=&quot;Ancient India&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Ethnic groups==<br /> The largest-Dravidian ethnic groups are the [[Telugus]] from [[Andhra Pradesh]] and [[Telangana]], the [[Tamils]] from [[Tamil Nadu]], [[Sri Lanka]], [[Malaysia]] and [[Singapore]], the [[Kannadigas]] from [[Karnataka]], the [[Malayalis]] from [[Kerala]], and the [[Tulu people]] from Karnataka. Certain communities of [[Marathis]] from [[Maharashtra]] are considered as Scytho-Dravidians.&lt;ref name=&quot;books.google.co.in&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Barnett |first1=Lionel D. |date=1999 |title=Antiquities of India: An Account of the History and Culture of Ancient Hindustan |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=LnoREHdzxt8C&amp;pg=PA31 |publisher=Atlantic Publishers &amp; Dist |pages=31 |isbn=978-81-7156-442-2}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;https&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last1=Wright |first1=Arnold |date=1914 |title=Southern India: Its History, People, Commerce, and Industrial Resources |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=8WNEcgMr11kC&amp;pg=PA71 |publisher=Asian Educational Services |pages=71 |isbn=978-81-206-1344-7}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable sortable&quot;<br /> ! Name<br /> ! Subgroup<br /> ! data-sort-type=&quot;number&quot;| Population<br /> ! class=&quot;unsortable&quot;| Notes<br /> |-<br /> | [[Badagas]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | 133,500 (2011 census)<br /> | Badagas are found in [[Tamil nadu]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Brahui people|Brahuis]]<br /> | North Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;2,500,000&quot;| 2.5 million{{Citation needed|date=April 2019}}<br /> | Brahuis are mostly found in the [[Balochistan]] region of [[Pakistan]], with smaller numbers in southwestern [[Afghanistan]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Chenchu people|Chenchus]]<br /> | South-Central Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;0&quot;| N/A<br /> | Chenchus are found in [[Andra Pradesh]], [[Telengana]], and [[Odisha]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Irula people|Irula]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | 203,382 (2011 census)<br /> | Irula are found in [[Tamil nadu]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Giraavaru people]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | 0 &lt; 100 (Extinct)<br /> | Giraavaru people were found in [[Maldives]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Gondi people|Gondis]]<br /> | Central Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;13,000,000&quot;| 13 million (approx.){{Citation needed|date=April 2019}}<br /> | Gondi belong to the central Dravidian subgroup. They are spread over the states of [[Madhya Pradesh]], [[Maharashtra]], [[Chhattisgarh]], [[Uttar Pradesh]], [[Telangana]], [[Andhra Pradesh]], [[Bihar]] and [[Odisha]]. A state named [[Gondwana (India)|Gondwana]] was proposed to represent them in [[India]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Khonds]]<br /> | South-Central Dravidian<br /> | 1,627,486 (2011 census)<br /> | Khonds are found in [[Odisha]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Kannadigas]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;43,700,000&quot;| 43.7 million&lt;ref name=census&gt;{{cite web |url=http://censusindia.gov.in/Census_Data_2001/Census_Data_Online/Language/Statement3.htm |title=Census 2011: Languages by state |publisher=Censusindia.gov.in |access-date=12 February 2013}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | Kannadigas are native to [[Karnataka]] in [[India]] but considerable population is also found in Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Telangana and Kerala.<br /> |-<br /> | [[Kodava people|Kodavas]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | 160,000(approx.){{Citation needed|date=April 2019}}<br /> | Kodavas are native to [[Kodagu|Kodagu district]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Kurukh people|Kurukh]]<br /> | North Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;3,600,000&quot;| 3.6 million (approx.)&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011census/PCA/ST.html |title=A-11 Individual Scheduled Tribe Primary Census Abstract Data and its Appendix |website=censusindia.gov.in |publisher=Office of the Registrar General &amp; Census Commissioner, India |access-date=6 December 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | Kurukh are spread over parts of the states of [[Chhatishgarh]], [[Jharkhand]] and [[Odisha]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Kurumbar (tribe)|Kurumbar]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | N/A<br /> | Kurumbar are found in [[Tamil Nadu]], [[Karnataka]] and [[Andhra Pradesh]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Malayalis]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;32,200,000&quot;| 32.2 million&lt;ref name=census/&gt;<br /> | Malayalis are native to Kerala and Lakshadweep, but are also found in Puducherry and parts of Tamil Nadu. They are also found in large numbers in Middle East countries, the Americas and Australia.<br /> |-<br /> | [[Paniya people|Paniya]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | N/A<br /> | Paniya are found in [[Kerala]] and [[Tamil Nadu]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Tamils]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;78,000,000&quot;| 78 million&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://tamilo.com/tamil-population-education-29.html |title=World Tamil Population |date=August 2008 |website=Tamilo.com |access-date=4 September 2015 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150930204226/http://tamilo.com/tamil-population-education-29.html |archive-date=30 September 2015 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | Tamils are native to [[Tamil Nadu]], [[Puducherry]] and northern and eastern [[Sri Lanka]], but are also found in parts of [[Kerala]], [[Karnataka]] and [[Andhra Pradesh]], although they have a large [[Tamil diaspora|diaspora]] and are also widespread throughout many countries including [[South Africa]], [[Singapore]], the [[United States of America]], [[Canada]], [[Fiji]], [[Indonesia]], [[Vietnam]], [[Cambodia]], [[Philippines]], [[Mauritius]], [[Europe]]an countries, [[Guyana]], [[Suriname]], [[French Guiana]] and [[Malaysia]], as are the other three major Dravidian languages.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |title=History of the Tamil Diaspora |author=Sivasupramaniam, V. |url=http://murugan.org/research/sivasupramaniam.htm |website=Murugan.org}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> |-<br /> | [[Telugus]]<br /> | Central Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;85,100,000&quot;| 85.1 million&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.friendsoftelugu.org/UCB/index.php/telugu-people-stats |title=Census 2011: Languages by state |publisher=Censusindia.gov.in |access-date=12 February 2013 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130225141907/http://www.friendsoftelugu.org/UCB/index.php/telugu-people-stats |archive-date=25 February 2013 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | Telugus are native to [[Andhra Pradesh]], [[Telangana]] and [[Yanam]] ([[Puducherry]]), but are also found in parts of [[Tamil Nadu]], [[Karnataka]], [[Orissa]] and [[Maharashtra]]. Further, they have a large [[Telugu diaspora|diaspora]] and are also widespread throughout many countries including the [[United States of America]], [[Canada]], [[Australia]] and [[Europe]]an countries. Telugu is the fastest growing language in the [[United States of America]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |title=Do you speak Telugu? Welcome to America|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45902204 |newspaper=BBC News|date=21 October 2018 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> |-<br /> | [[Toda people|Todas]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | 2,002 (2011 census)<br /> | Todas are found in [[Tamil nadu]].<br /> |-<br /> | [[Tuluvas]]<br /> | South Dravidian<br /> | data-sort-value=&quot;2,000,000&quot;| 2 million (approx.){{Citation needed|date=April 2019}}<br /> | Tuluvas are found in coastal Karnataka and Northern Kerala (Kasaragodu district) in [[India]]. A state named [[Tulu Nadu]] was proposed to represent them in [[India]].<br /> |}<br /> <br /> ==Language==<br /> {{Main|Dravidian languages}}<br /> [[File:DravidianTree.png|250px|thumb|right|Dravidian language tree]]<br /> <br /> The most commonly spoken Dravidian languages are [[Telugu language|Telugu]] (తెలుగు), [[Tamil language|Tamil]] (தமிழ்), [[Kannada language|Kannada]] (ಕನ್ನಡ), [[Malayalam language|Malayalam]] (മലയാളം), [[Brahui language|Brahui]] (براہوئی), [[Tulu Language|Tulu]] (ತುಳು), [[Gondi language|Gondi]] and [[Kodava language|Coorg]]. There are three subgroups within the Dravidian language family: North Dravidian, Central Dravidian, and South Dravidian, matching for the most part the corresponding regions in the Indian subcontinent.<br /> <br /> Dravidian grammatical impact on the structure and syntax of Indo-Aryan languages is considered far greater than the Indo-Aryan grammatical impact on Dravidian. Some linguists explain this anomaly by arguing that Middle Indo-Aryan and New Indo-Aryan were built on a Dravidian [[substratum]].&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Krishnamurti|2003|pp=40–1}}&lt;/ref&gt; There are also hundreds of Dravidian loanwords in Indo-Aryan languages, and vice versa.<br /> <br /> According to David McAlpin and his [[Elamo-Dravidian languages|Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis]], the Dravidian languages were brought to India by immigration into India from [[Elam]], located in present-day southwestern [[Iran]].&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;&gt;{{citation |title=Genetic Disorders of the Indian Subcontinent |author=Dhavendra Kumar |publisher=Springer |year=2004 |accessdate=25 November 2008 |isbn=978-1-4020-1215-0 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bpl0LXKj13QC |quote=... The analysis of two Y chromosome variants, Hgr9 and Hgr3 provides interesting data (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). Microsatellite variation of Hgr9 among Iranians, Pakistanis and Indians indicate an expansion of populations to around 9000 YBP in Iran and then to 6,000 YBP in India. This migration originated in what was historically termed Elam in south-west Iran to the Indus valley, and may have been associated with the spread of Dravidian languages from south-west Iran (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;David McAlpin, &quot;Toward Proto-Elamo-Dravidian&quot;, ''Language'' vol. 50 no. 1 (1974); David McAlpin: &quot;Elamite and Dravidian, Further Evidence of Relationships&quot;, ''Current Anthropology'' vol. 16 no. 1 (1975); David McAlpin: &quot;Linguistic prehistory: the Dravidian situation&quot;, in Madhav M. Deshpande and Peter Edwin Hook: ''Aryan and Non-Aryan in India'', Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (1979); David McAlpin, &quot;Proto-Elamo-Dravidian: The Evidence and its Implications&quot;, ''Transactions of the American Philosophical Society'' vol. 71 pt. 3, (1981)&lt;/ref&gt; In the 1990s, Renfrew and Cavalli-Sforza have also argued that Proto-Dravidian was brought to India by farmers from the Iranian part of the Fertile Crescent,{{sfnp|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|pp=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;mukherjee2001&quot;&gt;{{citation |title=High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from central Asia and West Asia into India |author1=Namita Mukherjee |author2=Almut Nebel |author3=Ariella Oppenheim |author4=Partha P. Majumder |journal=[[Journal of Genetics]] |date=December 2001 |volume=80 |issue=3 |doi=10.1007/BF02717908 |quote=... More recently, about 15,000–10,000 years before present (ybp), when agriculture developed in the Fertile Crescent region that extends from Israel through northern Syria to western Iran, there was another eastward wave of human migration (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994; Renfrew 1987), a part of which also appears to have entered India. This wave has been postulated to have brought the Dravidian languages into India (Renfrew 1987). Subsequently, the Indo-European (Aryan) language family was introduced into India about 4,000 ybp ... |pmid=11988631 |pages=125–35}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfnp|Derenko|2013}}{{refn|group=note|Derenko: &quot;The spread of these new technologies has been associated with the dispersal of Dravidian and Indo-European languages in southern Asia. It is hypothesized that the proto-Elamo-Dravidian language, most likely originated in the Elam province in southwestern Iran, spread eastwards with the movement of farmers to the Indus Valley and the Indian sub-continent.&quot;{{sfnp|Derenko|2013}}&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Derenko refers to:&lt;br /&gt;* Renfrew (1987), ''Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins''&lt;br /&gt;* Renfrew (1996), ''Language families and the spread of farming.'' In: Harris DR, editor, ''The origins and spread of Agriculture and Pastoralism in Eurasia'', pp. 70–92&lt;br /&gt;* Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, Piazza (1994), ''The History and Geography of Human Genes''.}} but more recently Heggerty and Renfrew noted that &quot;McAlpin's analysis of the language data, and thus his claims, remain far from orthodoxy&quot;, adding that Fuller finds no relation of Dravidian language with other languages, and thus assumes it to be native to India.&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew&gt;{{citation |last1=Heggarty |first1=Paul |last2=Renfrew |first2=Collin |year=2014 |chapter=South and Island Southeast Asia; Languages |editor-last1=Renfrew |editor-first1=Colin |editor-last2=Bahn |editor-first2=Paul |title=The Cambridge World Prehistory |chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vWbwAwAAQBAJ |publisher=Cambridge University Press |isbn=9781107647756}}&lt;/ref&gt; Renfrew and Bahn conclude that several scenarios are compatible with the data, and that &quot;the linguistic jury is still very much out.&quot;&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew/&gt;<br /> <br /> As a [[proto-language]], the [[Proto-Dravidian]] language is not itself attested in the historical record. Its modern conception is based solely on reconstruction. It is suggested that the language was spoken in the 4th millennium BCE, and started disintegrating into various branches around 3rd millennium BCE.&lt;ref name=&quot;books.google.com&quot;/&gt; According to Krishnamurti, Proto-Dravidian may have been spoken in the Indus civilization, suggesting a &quot;tentative date of Proto-Dravidian around the early part of the third millennium.&quot;{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501}} Krishnamurti further states that South Dravidian I (including pre-Tamil) and South Dravidian II (including pre-Telugu) split around the eleventh century BCE, with the other major branches splitting off at around the same time.{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501-502}}<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> <br /> ===Origins===<br /> [[File:Dancing girl.jpg|thumb|The [[Dancing Girl (sculpture)|Dancing Girl]], a prehistoric [[bronze sculpture]] made in approximately 2500 BCE in the [[Indus Valley Civilisation]] city of [[Mohenjo-daro]].]]<br /> The origin of the Dravidian language family is a &quot;very complex subject of research and debate.&quot; &lt;ref name=&quot;Tudu2008_p.400&quot;/&gt; Older theories suggested that it may have been indigenous to the [[Indian subcontinent]],&lt;ref name=&quot;Masica_p39&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kopstein_p345&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Ancient India: A History of the Indian Sub-Continent from C. 7000 BC to AD 1200|page=13|author = Burjor Avari|publisher=Routledge}}&lt;/ref&gt; but some more recent studies argue for an origin in West-Asia.{{sfnp|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|pp=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;/&gt;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}}{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}}{{sfn|Samuel|2008|p=54 note 15}} An 2012 study suggested a “Zagrosian family” including [[Elamite]], [[Brahui]] and Dravidian which was suggested to have originated among ancient Iranian farmers and pastoralists.&lt;ref&gt;https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12284-011-9076-9&lt;/ref&gt; A 2018 study by Narasimhan et al. suggests that proto-Dravidian originated from “Indus periphery-related groups and note that this scenario is consistent with other theories regarding the origin of Dravidian. Additionally he notes that an “pre-Indus” origin in southeastern India is also plausible. <br /> According to a 2016 genome analysis, populations from the region of the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros Mountain farmers]] in the area of modern day Iran were the main ancestral contributor to modern day South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm|title=Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians|website=ScienceDaily|language=en|access-date=2020-03-01}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Narasimhan et al. (2018), the people of the Indian subcontinent, including Dravidian people, are of mixed genetic origin and formed as a mixture, mainly of &quot;native hunter gatherers&quot; related to the [[Andamanese people]], Neolithic West Asian farmers from Iran and Steppe Yamnaya pastoralists. According to Narasimhan, there is evidence that the proto-Dravidian language may have originated from native hunter gatherers of South Asia (related to the Andamanese) in southeastern India, positing that, as ASI “Ancestral South Indian” ancestry correlates with Dravidian languages, a native origin for Dravidian is very plausible.{{sfn|Narasimhan|2018}} <br /> <br /> Although in modern times speakers of various [[Dravidian language]]s have mainly occupied the southern portion of India, Dravidian speakers must have been widespread throughout the Indian subcontinent before the [[Indo-Aryan people|Indo-Aryan]] migration into the subcontinent.&lt;ref name=&quot;britannicaOnline&quot;&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.britannica.com/topic/Dravidian-languages |title=Dravidian languages |date=8 July 2015 |website=[[Encyclopædia Britannica]]}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Horen Tudu, &quot;many academic researchers have attempted to connect the Dravidians with the remnants of the great [[Indus Valley Civilisation]], located in Northwestern India... but [i]t is mere speculation that the Dravidians are the ensuing post–Indus Valley settlement of refugees into South and Central India.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Tudu2008_p.400&quot;/&gt; The most noteworthy scholar making such claims is [[Asko Parpola]],{{sfn|Samuel|2008|p=54 note 15}} who did extensive research on the IVC-scripts.{{sfn|Samuel|2008|p=54 note 15}}{{sfn|Parpola|2015}} The [[Brahui people|Brahui]] population of [[Balochistan (Pakistan)|Balochistan]] in [[Pakistan]] has been taken by some as the linguistic equivalent of a [[relict]] population, perhaps indicating that Dravidian languages were formerly much more widespread and were supplanted by the incoming Indo-Aryan languages.&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvnb|Mallory|1989|p=44}}: &quot;There are still remnant northern Dravidian languages including Brahui ... The most obvious explanation of this situation is that the Dravidian languages once occupied nearly all of the Indian subcontinent and it is the intrusion of Indo-Aryans that engulfed them in northern India leaving but a few isolated enclaves. This is further supported by the fact that Dravidian loan words begin to appear in Sanskrit literature from its very beginning.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; Nowadays Tamils, Malayalis, Telugus, Kannadigas that make up around 20% of India's population.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Dravidian India|page=21|author=T.R. Sesha Iyengar}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> =====Ancestral components=====<br /> {{See also|Indo-Aryan migration theory#Genetics: ancient ancestry and multiple gene flows|Peopling of India|Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia|l1=ANI and ASI|l2=Peopling of India|l3=Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia}}<br /> <br /> Several studies have shown that the [[Indian subcontinent]]&lt;nowiki/&gt; harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}}namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is broadly related to West Eurasians and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}|group=note}}{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} Later, a component termed &quot;AASI&quot; (found to be the predominant element in ASI), was distinguished in subsequent studies. As no &quot;ASI&quot; or &quot;AASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] (exemplified by the [[Onge]], a possibly distantly related population native to the Andaman Islands) is used as an (imperfect) proxy. According to Reich et al., both ANI and ASI ancestry are found all over the subcontinent (in both northern and southern India) in varying proportions, and that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers.&quot; {{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}.<br /> <br /> According to a large craniometric study (Raghavan and Bulbeck et al. 2013) the native populations of [[India]] and [[Sri Lanka]] have distinct craniometric and anthropologic ancestry. Both southern and northern groups are most similar to each other also show deep relations to populations of Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. The study further showed that the native South Asians, north and south, form a unique group distinct from “Australo-Melanesians&quot;. <br /> However Raghavan and Bulbeck et al., while noting the differences of South Asian from Andamanese and Australoid crania, while also noting the distinctiveness of between South Asian and Andamanese crania, explain that this is not in conflict with genetic evidence showing a partial common ancestry and genetic affinity between South Asians and the native Andamanese, stating that &quot;The distinctiveness of Andamanese and southern Indian crania need not challenge the finding by Reich et al. for an “Ancestral South Indian” ancestry shared by southern Indians and Andamanese&quot;, and that the differences may be in part due the greater craniometric specialization of South Asians compared to Andamanese.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|title=Indian Craniometric Variability and Affinities|volume=2013|pages=836738|last=Rathee|first=Suresh Kanta|last2=Pathmanathan|first2=Gayathiri|date=2013|journal=International Journal of Evolutionary Biology|language=en|pmid=24455409|pmc=3886603|last3=Bulbeck|first3=David|last4=Raghavan|first4=Pathmanathan|doi=10.1155/2013/836738}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A recent genetic study published in the &quot;''European Journal of Human Genetics&quot;'' in [[Nature (journal)|Nature]] (2019) showed that most populations of [[South Asia]], [[Western Asia]], [[Northern Africa]], [[Europe]] and parts of [[Central Asia]] are closely related to each other. These mentioned groups can be clearly distinguished from most populations in East Asia or Western Africa and Africans south of the Sahara.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Kidd|first=Kenneth K.|last2=Kidd|first2=Judith R.|last3=Rajeevan|first3=Haseena|last4=Soundararajan|first4=Usha|last5=Bulbul|first5=Ozlem|last6=Truelsen|first6=Ditte Mikkelsen|last7=Pereira|first7=Vania|last8=Almohammed|first8=Eida Khalaf|last9=Hadi|first9=Sibte|date=2019-07-08|title=Genetic relationships of European, Mediterranean, and SW Asian populations using a panel of 55 AISNPs|journal=European Journal of Human Genetics|pages=1885–1893|doi=10.1038/s41431-019-0466-6|pmid=31285530|pmc=6871633|issn=1476-5438|volume=27|issue=12}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> =====Formation of modern Dravidians=====<br /> {{See also|Dravidian languages#Prehistory|l1=History of Dravidian languages|Proto-Dravidian|l2=Proto-Dravidian|Dravidian homeland|l3=Dravidian homeland|Neolithic revolution|l4=Neolithic revolution|Fertile Crescent|l5=Fertile Crescent|Demic diffusion|l6=Demic diffusion|Mehrgarh#Origins|l7=Origins of Mehrgahr}}<br /> <br /> Recent studies have shown that the proto-Dravidians were descendants of neolithic farmers which are suggested to have migrated from the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] in modern day [[Iran]] to northern South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/jgen/087/02/0175-0179&lt;/ref&gt; According to another study the neolithic farmers ancestry component forms the main ancestry of modern South Asians. These neolithic farmers migrated from the [[Fertile Crescent|fertile crescent]], most likely from a region near the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]]&lt;nowiki/&gt;in modern day Iran, to South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm|title=Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians|website=ScienceDaily|language=en|access-date=2020-01-20}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. (2013) describe three scenarios regarding the [[Peopling of India]]:<br /> <br /> # migrations before the development of agriculture (8,000–9,000 years before present (BP));<br /> # migration of western Asian people together with the spread of agriculture, maybe up to 4,600 years BP;<br /> # migrations of western Eurasians from 3,000 to 4,000 years BP.{{sfnp|Moorjani et al.|2013|pp=422-423}}<br /> <br /> According to Gallego Romero et al. (2011), their research on lactose tolerance in India suggests that &quot;the west Eurasian genetic contribution identified by Reich et al. (2009) principally reflects gene flow from Iran and the Middle East.&quot;{{sfnp|Gallego Romero|2011|p=9}} Gallego Romero notes that Indians who are lactose-tolerant show a genetic pattern regarding this tolerance which is &quot;characteristic of the common European mutation.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot;&gt;[http://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2011/09/14/lactose-tolerance-in-the-indian-dairyland/ Rob Mitchum (2011), ''Lactose Tolerance in the Indian Dairyland'', ScienceLife]&lt;/ref&gt; According to Romero, this suggests that &quot;the most common lactose tolerance mutation made a two-way migration out of the Middle East less than 10,000 years ago. While the mutation spread across Europe, another explorer must have brought the mutation eastward to India – likely traveling along the coast of the Persian Gulf where other pockets of the same mutation have been found.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Asko Parpola, who regards the Harappans to have been Dravidian, notes that [[Mehrgarh]] (7000&amp;nbsp;BCE to c. 2500&amp;nbsp;BCE), to the west of the [[Indus River]] valley,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4882968.stm |title=Stone age man used dentist drill |date=6 April 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; is a precursor of the Indus Valley Civilisation, whose inhabitants migrated into the Indus Valley and became the Indus Valley Civilisation.{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}} It is one of the earliest sites with evidence of farming and herding in [[South Asia]].&lt;ref&gt;UNESCO World Heritage. 2004. [https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1876/&quot;]. ''Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh''&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Hirst, K. Kris. 2005. [http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/g/mehrgarh.htm &quot;Mehrgarh&quot;]. '' Guide to Archaeology''&lt;/ref&gt; According to Lukacs and Hemphill, while there is a strong continuity between the neolithic and [[chalcolithic]] (Copper Age) cultures of Mehrgarh, dental evidence shows that the chalcolithic population did not descend from the neolithic population of Mehrgarh,{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} which &quot;suggests moderate levels of gene flow.&quot;{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} They further noted that &quot;the direct lineal descendants of the Neolithic inhabitants of Mehrgarh are to be found to the south and the east of Mehrgarh, in northwestern India and the western edge of the Deccan plateau,&quot; with neolithic Mehrgarh showing greater affinity with chalocolithic [[Inamgaon]], south of Mehrgarh, than with chalcolithic Mehrgarh.{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}}<br /> <br /> Another study published in 2016 suggests that Dravidians are linked to [[Neolithic]] [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros Mountain farmers]], and that this West Asian population builds the main ancestor of modern [[South Asia|South Asians]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm|title=Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians|website=ScienceDaily|language=en|access-date=2020-01-12}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI (Ancient Ancestral South Indian, i.e. hunter-gatherers sharing a common root with the Andamanese); and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; (with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population).{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. (2019) shows that the native South Asian genetic component is distinct from the Andamanese and thus that the Andamanese (Onge) are an imperfect and imprecise proxy for &quot;ASI&quot; ancestry in South Asians (there is difficulty detecting ASI ancestry in the North Indian Gujarati when the Andamanese Onge are used). Yemen et al. suggest that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from people related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common ancestry with the Andamanese, with the Iranian-related ancestry being predominant on average. And the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry). The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;Steppe ancestry&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10 | date = October 2019 | pmid = 31495572 | pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Indus Valley Civilization====<br /> [[File:Shiva Pashupati.jpg|thumb|220px| The ''Pashupati'' seal from the Indus Valley Civilization]]<br /> {{Main|Indus valley civilisation|Substratum in Vedic Sanskrit}}<br /> <br /> =====Dravidian identification=====<br /> The [[Indus Valley civilization]] (2,600-1,900 BCE) located in the northwest of the [[Indian subcontinent]] is sometimes identified as having been Dravidian.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html |title=Stone celts in Harappa |last=Mahadevan |first=Iravatham |date=6 May 2006 |website=Harappa |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20060904034700/http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html |archivedate=4 September 2006 |df=dmy}}&lt;/ref&gt; Already in 1924, when announcing the discovery of the IVC, [[John Marshall]] stated that (one of) the language(s) may have been Dravidic.&lt;ref&gt;M.T. Saju (5 October 2018), [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/tracking-indian-communities/pot-route-could-have-linked-indus-vaigai/ ''Pot route could have linked Indus &amp; Vaigai''], ''The Times of India''&lt;/ref&gt; Cultural and linguistic similarities have been cited by researchers [[Henry Heras]], [[Kamil Zvelebil]], [[Asko Parpola]] and [[Iravatham Mahadevan]] as being strong evidence for a proto-Dravidian origin of the ancient Indus Valley civilisation.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |last=Rahman |first=Tariq |title=People and languages in pre-Islamic Indus valley |url=http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subject/peoplesandlanguages.html |quote=most scholars have taken the 'Dravidian hypothesis' seriously |accessdate=20 November 2008 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20080509053921/http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subject/peoplesandlanguages.html |archivedate=9 May 2008}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last=Cole |first=Jennifer |date=2006 |chapter=The Sindhi language |chapter-url=http://www.linguistics.uiuc.edu/jscole/Sindhi_Elsevier_encyl.pdf |editor-last=Brown |editor-first=K. |title=Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics, 2nd Edition |volume=11 |publisher=Elsevier |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20070106015921/http://www.linguistics.uiuc.edu/jscole/Sindhi_Elsevier_encyl.pdf |archivedate=6 January 2007 |quote=Harappan language...prevailing theory indicates Dravidian origins}}&lt;/ref&gt; The discovery in Tamil Nadu of a late Neolithic (early 2nd millennium BCE, i.e. post-dating Harappan decline) stone [[Celt (tool)|celt]] allegedly marked with Indus signs has been considered by some to be significant for the Dravidian identification.&lt;ref&gt;Subramanium 2006; see also [http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html A Note on the Muruku Sign of the Indus Script in light of the Mayiladuthurai Stone Axe Discovery] {{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20060904034700/http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html |date=4 September 2006}} by I. Mahadevan (2006)&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |last=Subramanian |first=T.S. |date=1 May 2006 |title=Significance of Mayiladuthurai find |url=http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/05/01/stories/2006050101992000.htm |newspaper=The Hindu |access-date=9 August 2015 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20080430214654/http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/05/01/stories/2006050101992000.htm |archive-date=30 April 2008 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[Yuri Knorozov]] surmised that the symbols represent a [[logosyllabic]] script and suggested, based on computer analysis, an agglutinative [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] language as the most likely candidate for the underlying language.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Knorozov|1965|p=117}}&lt;/ref&gt; Knorozov's suggestion was preceded by the work of Henry Heras, who suggested several readings of signs based on a proto-Dravidian assumption.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Heras|1953|p=138}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Linguist Asko Parpola writes that the Indus script and Harappan language are &quot;most likely to have belonged to the Dravidian family&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |author=Edwin Bryant |year=2003 |title=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate |page=183 |publisher=Oxford |isbn=9780195169478}}&lt;/ref&gt; Parpola led a Finnish team in investigating the inscriptions using computer analysis. Based on a proto-Dravidian assumption, they proposed readings of many signs, some agreeing with the suggested readings of Heras and Knorozov (such as equating the &quot;fish&quot; sign with the Dravidian word for fish, &quot;min&quot;) but disagreeing on several other readings. A comprehensive description of Parpola's work until 1994 is given in his book ''Deciphering the Indus Script''.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Parpola|1994}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> =====Decline, migration and Dravidianization=====<br /> [[Paleoclimatology|Paleoclimatologists]] believe the fall of the Indus Valley Civilisation and eastward migration during the late Harappan period was due to climate change in the region, with a 200-year long drought being the major factor.&lt;ref name=&quot;scientificamerican.com&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last=Marris |first=Emma |date=3 March 2014 |title=200-Year Drought Doomed Indus Valley Civilization |url=http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/200-year-drought-doomed-indus-valley-civilization/ |journal=Nature |via=Scientific American}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |last=Keys |first=David |date=2 March 2014 |title=How climate change ended worlds first great civilisations |url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/revealed-how-climate-change-ended-worlds-first-great-civilisations-9164248.html |newspaper=The Independent |location=London}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |last=Sinha |first=Kounteya |date=28 February 2014 |title=Climate change caused Indus Valley civilization collapse |url=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Climate-change-caused-Indus-Valley-civilization-collapse/articleshow/31133369.cms |newspaper=The Times of India}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Indus Valley Civilisation seemed to slowly lose their urban cohesion, and their cities were gradually abandoned during the late Harappan period, followed by eastward migrations before the Indo-Aryan migration into the Indian subcontinent.&lt;ref name=&quot;scientificamerican.com&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> The process of post-Harappan/Dravidian influences on southern India has tentatively been called &quot;Dravidianization&quot;,&lt;ref name=&quot;The Dravidianization of India&quot;/&gt; and is reflected in the post-Harappan mixture of IVC and Ancient Ancestral South Indian people.&lt;ref&gt;* {{citation |last1=Narasimhan |first1=Vagheesh M. |last2=Anthony |first2=David |last3=Mallory |first3=James |last4=Reich |first4=David |year=2018 |title=The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia |biorxiv=292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} |doi=10.1101/292581}}&lt;/ref&gt; Yet, according to Krishnamurti, Dravidian languages may have reached south India before Indo-Aryan migrations.&lt;ref&gt;Bhadriraju Krishnamurti, [https://www.britannica.com/topic/Dravidian-languages ''Dravidian languages''], REncyclopedia Britannica&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Dravidian and Indo-Aryan interactions====<br /> <br /> =====Dravidian substrate=====<br /> The Dravidian language influenced the Indo-Aryan languages. Dravidian languages show extensive lexical (vocabulary) borrowing, but only a few traits of structural (either [[phonology|phonological]] or grammatical) borrowing from Indo-Aryan, whereas Indo-Aryan shows more structural than lexical borrowings from the Dravidian languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;britannicaOnline&quot;/&gt; Many of these features are already present in the oldest known [[Indo-Aryan language]], the language of the ''[[Rigveda]]'' (c. 1500 BCE), which also includes over a dozen words borrowed from Dravidian. The linguistic evidence for Dravidian impact grows increasingly strong as we move from the Samhitas down through the later Vedic works and into the classical post-Vedic literature.&lt;ref name=Krishnamurti6&gt;{{harvnb|Krishnamurti|2003|p=6}}&lt;/ref&gt; This represents an early religious and cultural fusion{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}{{refn|group=note|name=Lockard|Lockard: &quot;The encounters that resulted from Aryan migration brought together several very different people and cultures, reconfiguring Indian society. Over many centuries a fusion of [[Indo-Aryan people|Aryan]] and Dravidian occurred, a complex process that historians have labeled the Indo-Aryan synthesis.&quot;{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}} Lockard: &quot;Hinduism can be seen historically as a synthesis of Aryan beliefs with Harappan and other Dravidian traditions that developed over many centuries.&quot;{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}}} or synthesis{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}} between ancient Dravidians and Indo-Aryans.{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}{{sfn|Zimmer|1951|pp=218-219}}{{sfn|Larson|1995|p=81}}<br /> <br /> According to Mallory there are an estimated thirty to forty Dravidian loanwords in [[Rig Veda]].&lt;ref name=MalloryAdams&gt;{{cite book |first=J. P. |last=Mallory |first2=D. Q. |last2=Adams |title=Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture |date=1997 |page=308}}&lt;/ref&gt; Some of those for which Dravidian etymologies are certain include {{lang|sa|ಕುಲಾಯ}} ''kulāya'' &quot;nest&quot;, {{lang|sa|ಕುಲ್ಫ}} ''kulpha'' &quot;ankle&quot;, {{lang|sa|ದಂಡ}} ''{{IAST|daṇḍa}}'' &quot;stick&quot;, {{lang|sa|ಕುಲ}} ''kūla'' &quot;slope&quot;, {{lang|sa|ಬಿಲ}} ''bila'' &quot;hollow&quot;, {{lang|sa|ಖಲ}} ''khala'' &quot;threshing floor&quot;.&lt;ref name=Zvelebil/&gt;{{rp|81}}&lt;ref name=Zvelebil&gt;{{cite book |first=Kamil |last=Zvelebil |title=Dravidian Linguistics: An Introduction |publisher=Pondicherry Institute of Linguistics and Culture |date=1990}}&lt;/ref&gt; While J. Bloch and [[Michael Witzel|M. Witzel]] believe that the Indo-Aryans moved into an already Dravidian speaking area after the oldest parts of the [[Rig Veda]] were already composed.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |first=Edwin |last=Bryant |authorlink=Edwin Bryant (author) |year=2001 |chapter=Linguistic Substrata in Sanskrit Texts |chapterurl=https://books.google.com/books?id=nkJAmVuBCcIC&amp;pg=PA76 |pages=76–107 |title=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |location=Oxford |isbn=978-0-19-513777-4}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Thomason and Kaufman, there is strong evidence that Dravidian influenced [[Indo-Aryan languages|Indic]] through &quot;shift&quot;, that is, native Dravidian speakers learning and adopting Indic languages.{{sfn|Thomason|Kaufman|1988}} According to Erdosy, the most plausible explanation for the presence of Dravidian structural features in Old Indo-Aryan is that the majority of early Old Indo-Aryan speakers had a Dravidian mother tongue which they gradually abandoned.{{Harvcoltxt|Erdosy|1995|p=18}} Even though the innovative traits in Indic could be explained by multiple internal explanations, early Dravidian influence is the only explanation that can account for all of the innovations at once. Early Dravidian influence accounts for several of the innovative traits in Indic better than any internal explanation that has been proposed.{{sfn|Thomason|Kaufman|1988|pp=141–144}} According to Zvelebil, &quot;several scholars have demonstrated that pre-Indo-Aryan and pre-Dravidian bilingualism in India provided conditions for the far-reaching influence of Dravidian on the Indo-Aryan tongues in the spheres of phonology, syntax and vocabulary.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-74968 Dravidian languages – Britannica Online Encyclopedia&lt;!-- Bot generated title --&gt;]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> =====Sanskritization=====<br /> With the rise of the [[Kuru Kingdom]] a process of [[Sanskritization]] started which influenced all of India, with the populations of the north of the Indian subcontinent predominantly speaking the Indo-Aryan languages.{{sfn|Witzel|1995}}<br /> <br /> ===Dravidian empires===<br /> The third century BCE onwards saw the development of large Dravidian empires like [[Chera dynasty|Chera]], [[Chola dynasty|Chola]], [[Pandyan dynasty|Pandyan]], [[Rashtrakuta dynasty|Rashtrakuta]], [[Satavahana dynasty|Satavahana]], [[Vijayanagara Empire|Vijayanagara]], [[Pallava dynasty|Pallava]], [[Chalukya dynasty|Chalukya]], [[Hoysala Empire|Hoysala]], [[Mysore|Kingdom of Mysore]] and smaller kingdoms like [[Ay kingdom|Ay]], [[Alupa dynasty|Alupa]], [[Western Ganga dynasty|Western Ganga]], [[Eastern Ganga dynasty|Eastern Ganga]], [[Kadamba dynasty|Kadamba]], [[Kalabhra dynasty|Kalabhra]], [[Andhra Ikshvaku]], [[Vishnukundina]], [[Western Chalukya Empire|Western Chalukya]], [[Eastern Chalukya]], [[Sena dynasty|Sena]], [[Kakatiya dynasty|Kakatiya]], [[Reddy dynasty|Reddy]], [[Mysore kingdom|Mysore]], [[Jaffna kingdom|Jaffna]], [[Travancore]], [[Venad]], [[Kingdom of Cochin|Cochin]], [[Kolathunadu|Cannanore]], [[Zamorin of Calicut|Calicut]] and the [[Nayak dynasty|Nayakas]].<br /> <br /> ===Medieval trade and influence===<br /> Medieval Tamil guilds and trading organisations like the Ayyavole and Manigramam played an important role in the southeast Asia trade.&lt;ref name=&quot;World p.293&quot;/&gt; Traders and religious leaders travelled to southeast Asia and played an important role in the [[Greater India|cultural Indianisation]] of the region. Locally developed scripts such as [[Grantha script|Grantha]] and [[Pallava script]] induced the development of many native scripts such as [[Khmer script|Khmer]], [[Javanese script|Javanese]] [[Kawi script]], [[Baybayin]], and [[Thai script|Thai]].<br /> <br /> === European contact (1500 onward) ===<br /> Portuguese explorers like Vasco de Gama were motivated to expand mainly for the spice markets of Calicut (today called Kozhikode) in modern-day Kerala. This led to the establishment of a series of Portuguese colonies along the western coasts of Karnataka and Kerala, including Mangalore. During this time Portuguese Jesuit priests also arrived and converted a small number of people in modern Kerala, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu to Catholicism, most notably the Paravars.<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian culture==<br /> <br /> ===Religious belief===<br /> {{See also|Dravidian folk religion| Hinduism| Śramaṇa| Jainism| Buddhism| Charvaka| Ājīvika|Indus Valley Civilization}}<br /> <br /> Ancient Dravidian religion constituted of an [[Animism|animistic]] and non-[[Historical Vedic religion|Vedic]] form of religion which may have influenced the [[Āgama (Hinduism)|Āgamas]], Vedic and non-[[Vedic]] texts&lt;ref name=Narasimhachary&gt;Mudumby Narasimhachary (Ed) (1976). Āgamaprāmāṇya of Yāmunācārya, Issue 160 of Gaekwad's Oriental Series. Oriental Institute, Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda.&lt;/ref&gt; which post-date the Vedic texts.&lt;ref name=&quot;Tripath2001&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Tripath |first=S. M. |date=2001 |title=Psycho-Religious Studies Of Man, Mind And Nature |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=zWFM_SaX24AC&amp;pg=PA54 |publisher=Global Vision Publishing House |pages=54– |isbn=978-81-87746-04-1}}&lt;/ref&gt; The ''Agamas'' are [[Tamil language|Tamil]] and [[Sanskrit]] [[religious text|scriptures]] chiefly constituting the methods of temple construction and creation of ''[[murti]]'', worship means of deities, philosophical doctrines, meditative practices, attainment of sixfold desires and four kinds of yoga.&lt;ref name=&quot;Grimes1996&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Grimes |first=John A. |date=1996 |title=A Concise Dictionary of Indian Philosophy: Sanskrit Terms Defined in English (New and Revised Edition) |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=eP5p0ev3nJEC |publisher=State University of New York Press |isbn=978-0-7914-3068-2}}&lt;/ref&gt; The worship of [[Village deities of Tamil Nadu|village deities]], as well as sacred flora and fauna in Hinduism is recognized as a survival of the pre-Vedic Dravidian religion.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=The Modern review: Volume 28; Volume 28|year=1920|publisher=Prabasi Press Private, Ltd.}}&lt;/ref&gt; Hinduism can be regarded as a religious and cultural fusion{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}{{refn|group=note|name=Lockard}} or synthesis{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}} between ancient Dravidians and Indo-Aryans, and other local elements.{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}{{sfn|Zimmer|1951|pp=218-219}}{{sfn|Larson|1995|p=81}}<br /> <br /> [[File:WLA lacma 12th century Maharishi Agastya.jpg|150px|thumb|Sage [[Agastya]], father of Tamil literature]]<br /> <br /> Ancient Tamil grammatical works [[Tolkappiyam]], the ten anthologies [[Pattuppāṭṭu]], and the eight anthologies [[Eṭṭuttokai]] shed light on early ancient Dravidian religion. [[Murugan]] (also known as Seyyon) was glorified as ''the red god seated on the blue peacock, who is ever young and resplendent'', as ''the favored god of the Tamils''.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kanchan Sinha 1979&quot;&gt;Kanchan Sinha, Kartikeya in Indian art and literature, Delhi: Sundeep Prakashan (1979).&lt;/ref&gt; [[Shiva|Sivan]] was also seen as the supreme God.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kanchan Sinha 1979&quot;/&gt; Early iconography of [[Murugan]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last=Mahadevan |first=Iravatham |title=A Note on the Muruku Sign of the Indus Script in light of the Mayiladuthurai Stone Axe Discovery |year=2006 |publisher=harappa.com |url=http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20060904034700/http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html |archivedate=4 September 2006 |df=dmy-all}}&lt;/ref&gt; and [[Shiva|Sivan]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |title=The Making of India: A Historical Survey |author=Ranbir Vohra |publisher=M.E. Sharpe |year=2000 |page=15}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |title=Ancient Indian Civilization |author=Grigorii Maksimovich Bongard-Levin |publisher=Arnold-Heinemann |year=1985 |page=45}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |title=Essential Hinduism |author=Steven Rosen, Graham M. Schweig |publisher=Greenwood Publishing Group |year=2006 |page=45}}&lt;/ref&gt; and their association with native flora and fauna goes back to the Indus Valley Civilisation.&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvnb|Basham|year=1967|page=27}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |title=Plants of life, plants of death |author=Frederick J. Simoons |year=1998 |page=363}}&lt;/ref&gt; The [[Sangam landscape]] was classified into five categories, ''thinais'', based on the mood, the season and the land. Tolkappiyam mentions that each of these ''thinai'' had an associated deity such as Seyyon in ''Kurinji'' (hills), [[Vishnu|Thirumaal]] in ''Mullai'' (forests), and [[Durga|Kotravai]] in ''Marutham'' (plains), and [[Indra|Wanji-ko]] in the ''Neithal'' (coasts and seas). Other gods mentioned were [[Krishna|Mayyon]] and [[Balaram|Vaali]], now identified with Krishna and Balarama, who are all major deities in Hinduism today. This represents an early religious and cultural fusion{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}{{refn|group=note|name=Lockard}} or synthesis{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}} between ancient Dravidians and Indo-Aryans, which became more evident over time with sacred iconography, traditions, philosophy, flora and fauna that went on to influence and shape Indian civilisation.{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}{{sfn|Zimmer|1951|pp=218-219}}{{sfn|Larson|1995|p=81}}<br /> <br /> [[File:Madurai The City of Temples.jpg|thumb|200px|left|[[Meenakshi Amman temple]], dedicated to Goddess [[Meenakshi]], tutelary deity of Madurai city]]<br /> <br /> Throughout [[Tamilakam]], a king was considered to be divine by nature and possessed religious significance.&lt;ref name=&quot;Harman 1992 6&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Harman |first=William P. |title=The sacred marriage of a Hindu goddess |year=1992 |publisher=Motilal Banarsidass |pages=6}}&lt;/ref&gt; The king was 'the representative of God on earth' and lived in a &quot;koyil&quot;, which means the &quot;residence of a god&quot;. The Modern Tamil word for temple is ''[[koil]]'' ({{lang-ta|கோயில்}}). Ritual worship was also given to kings.&lt;ref name=&quot;Anand 1980&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Anand |first=Mulk Raj |title=Splendours of Tamil Nadu |year=1980 |publisher=Marg Publications |url=https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&amp;safe=off&amp;noj=1&amp;prmdo=1&amp;biw=1067&amp;bih=565&amp;tbm=bks&amp;q=The+king+is+%27the+representative+of+God+on+earth%27+and+lives+in+a+palace+called+%27+Koyil%27%2C+which+means+the+residence+of+God.+The+ritual+worship+of+God&amp;oq=The+king+is+%27the+representative+of+God+on+earth%27+and+lives+in+a+palace+called+%27+Kovil%27%2C+which+means+the+residence+of+God.+The+ritual+worship+of+God&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=&amp;aql=&amp;gs_l=serp.3…0.0.0.8227.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0…0.0.DdIt9d1ZNjo}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chopra 1979&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Chopra |first=Pran Nath |title=History of South India |year=1979 |publisher=S. Chand |url=https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&amp;safe=off&amp;noj=1&amp;prmdo=1&amp;biw=1067&amp;bih=565&amp;tbm=bks&amp;q=The+king+is+%27the+representative+of+God+on+earth%27+and+lives+in+a+palace+called+%27+Kovil%27%2C+which+means+the+residence+of+God.+The+ritual+worship+of+God&amp;oq=The+king+is+%27the+representative+of+God+on+earth%27+and+lives+in+a+palace+called+%27+Koyil%27%2C+which+means+the+residence+of+God.+The+ritual+worship+of+God&amp;aq=f&amp;aqi=&amp;aql=&amp;gs_l=serp.3…0.0.0.8227.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0…0.0.DdIt9d1ZNjo}}&lt;/ref&gt; Modern words for god like &quot;kō&quot; ({{lang-ta|கோ}} &quot;king&quot;), &quot;iṟai&quot; ({{lang|ta|இறை}} &quot;emperor&quot;) and &quot;āṇḍavar&quot; ({{lang|ta|ஆண்டவன்}} &quot;conqueror&quot;) now primarily refer to gods. These elements were incorporated later into Hinduism like the legendary marriage of [[Shiva]] to Queen Mīnātchi who ruled [[Madurai]] or [[Legendary early Chola kings#Cholas of the Sangam period|Wanji-ko]], a god who later merged into [[Indra]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Bate 2009&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Bate |first=Bernard |title=Tamil oratory and the Dravidian aesthetic: democratic practice in south India |year=2009 |publisher=Columbia University Press}}&lt;/ref&gt; Tolkappiyar refers to the [[Three Crowned Kings]] as the &quot;Three Glorified by Heaven&quot;, ({{indic|lang=ta|indic=வாண்புகழ் மூவர் |trans=Vāṉpukaḻ Mūvar}}).&lt;ref name=&quot;A. Kiruṭṭin̲an̲ 2000 17&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=A. Kiruṭṭin̲an̲ |title=Tamil culture: religion, culture, and literature |year=2000 |publisher=Bharatiya Kala Prakashan |pages=17}}&lt;/ref&gt; In the Dravidian-speaking South, the concept of divine kingship led to the assumption of major roles by state and temple.&lt;ref name=&quot;Embree 1988&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Embree |first=Ainslie Thomas |authorlink=Ainslie Embree |title=Encyclopedia of Asian history: Volume 1 |year=1988 |publisher=Scribner |isbn=9780684188980 |url=https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofas0000embr |url-access=registration }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The cult of the mother goddess is treated as an indication of a society which venerated femininity. This mother goddess was conceived as a virgin, one who has given birth to all and one, and were typically associated with [[History of Shaktism|Shaktism]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last=Thiruchandran |first=Selvy |title=Ideology, caste, class, and gender |year=1997 |publisher=Vikas Pub. House}}&lt;/ref&gt; The temples of the Sangam days, mainly of Madurai, seem to have had priestesses to the deity, which also appear predominantly a goddess.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last=Manickam |first=Valliappa Subramaniam |title=A glimpse of Tamilology |year=1968 |publisher=Academy of Tamil Scholars of Tamil Nadu |pages=75 |url=https://books.google.com/?id=bIQOAAAAYAAJ&amp;q=sangam+priestess&amp;dq=sangam+priestess}}&lt;/ref&gt; In the Sangam literature, there is an elaborate description of the rites performed by the Kurava priestess in the shrine Palamutircholai.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last=Lal |first=Mohan |title=The Encyclopaedia Of Indian Literature (Volume Five (Sasay To Zorgot), Volume 5 |year=2006 |publisher=Sahitya Akademi |isbn=978-8126012213 |pages=4396}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Among the early Dravidians the practice of erecting memorial stones, [[hero stone|Natukal and Viragal]], had appeared, and it continued for quite a long time after the Sangam age, down to about the 16th century.&lt;ref name=&quot;shashi1996&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Shashi |first=S.S. |title=Encyclopaedia Indica: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh: Volume 100 |year=1996 |publisher=Anmol Publications}}&lt;/ref&gt; It was customary for people who sought victory in war to worship these [[hero stone]]s to bless them with victory''.&lt;ref name=&quot;subramanium1980&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Subramanium |first=N. |title=Śaṅgam polity: the administration and social life of the Śaṅgam Tamils |year=1980 |publisher=Ennes Publications}}&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> ===Architecture and visual art===<br /> {{Main|Dravidian Architecture}}<br /> [[File:Nataraja01.jpg|150|thumb|right|upright|[[Nataraja]], example of [[Chola Empire]] bronze has become notable as a symbol of [[Hinduism]].]]<br /> [[File:01AnnamalaiyarTemple&amp;Thiruvannamalai&amp;TamilNadu&amp;AerialViewfromVirupakshaCave.jpg|thumb|right|Typical layout of Dravidian temple architecture, 9th century A.D]]<br /> <br /> Throughout [[Tamilakam]], a king was considered to be divine by nature and possessed religious significance.&lt;ref name=&quot;Harman 1992 6&quot;/&gt; The king was 'the representative of God on earth' and lived in a &quot;koyil&quot;, which means the &quot;residence of a god&quot;. The Modern Tamil word for temple is [[koil]] ({{lang-ta|கோயில்}}). Titual worship was also given to kings.&lt;ref name=&quot;Anand 1980&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chopra 1979&quot;/&gt; Modern words for god like &quot;kō&quot; ({{lang-ta|கோ}} &quot;king&quot;), &quot;iṟai&quot; ({{lang|ta|இறை}} &quot;emperor&quot;) and &quot;āṇḍavar&quot; ({{lang|ta|ஆண்டவன்}} &quot;conqueror&quot;) now primarily refer to gods.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bate 2009&quot;/&gt; [[Tolkappiyar]] refers to the [[Three Crowned Kings]] as the &quot;Three Glorified by Heaven&quot;, ({{indic|lang=ta|indic=வாண்புகழ் மூவர்|trans=Vāṉpukaḻ Mūvar}}).&lt;ref name=&quot;A. Kiruṭṭin̲an̲ 2000 17&quot;/&gt; In the Dravidian-speaking South, the concept of divine kingship led to the assumption of major roles by state and temple.&lt;ref name=&quot;Embree 1988&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> ''Mayamata'' and ''Manasara shilpa'' texts estimated to be in circulation by the 5th to 7th century AD, are guidebooks on the Dravidian style of [[Vastu Shastra]] design, construction, sculpture and joinery technique.&lt;ref name=stellakramrisch76&gt;Stella Kramrisch (1976), The Hindu Temple Volume 1 &amp; 2, {{ISBN|81-208-0223-3}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Tillotson, G. H. R. (1997). Svastika Mansion: A Silpa-Sastra in the 1930s. South Asian Studies, 13(1), pp 87-97&lt;/ref&gt; ''Isanasivagurudeva paddhati'' is another text from the 9th century describing the art of building in India in south and central India.&lt;ref name=stellakramrisch76/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Ganapati Sastri (1920), Īśānaśivagurudeva paddhati, Trivandrum Sanskrit Series, {{OCLC|71801033}}&lt;/ref&gt; In north India, ''Brihat-samhita'' by [[Varāhamihira]] is the widely cited ancient Sanskrit manual from the 6th century describing the design and construction of ''Nagara'' style of Hindu temples.&lt;ref name=mmgeometry&gt;{{cite journal |last=Meister |first=Michael W. |author-link=Michael W. Meister |year=1983 |title=Geometry and Measure in Indian Temple Plans: Rectangular Temples |journal=Artibus Asiae |volume=44 |issue=4 |pages=266–296 |doi=10.2307/3249613 |jstor=3249613}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=hgood&gt;Heather Elgood (2000), Hinduism and the religious arts, {{ISBN|978-0304707393}}, Bloomsbury Academic, pp 121-125&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;H Kern (1865), [http://www.wilbourhall.org/pdfs/BrhatSamhitaSanskrit.pdf The Brhat Sanhita of Varaha-mihara], The Asiatic Society of Bengal, Calcutta&lt;/ref&gt; Traditional Dravidian architecture and symbolism are also based on Agamas. The Agamas are non-[[Vedic]] in origin&lt;ref name=&quot;Narasimhachary&quot;/&gt; and have been dated either as post-Vedic texts &lt;ref name=&quot;Tripath2001&quot;/&gt; or as pre-Vedic compositions.&lt;ref name=Nagalingam&gt;Nagalingam, Pathmarajah (2009). The Religion of the Agamas. Siddhanta Publications. [http://www.siddha.com.my/forum/religionoftheagamas/chapter3.html]&lt;/ref&gt; The ''Agamas'' are a collection of Tamil and [[Sanskrit]] [[religious text|scriptures]] chiefly constituting the methods of temple construction and creation of ''[[murti]]'', worship means of deities, philosophical doctrines, meditative practices, attainment of sixfold desires and four kinds of yoga.&lt;ref name=&quot;Grimes1996&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Chola style temples consist almost invariably of the three following parts, arranged in differing manners, but differing in themselves only according to the age in which they were executed:&lt;ref name=Fergusson&gt;{{cite book |last=Fergusson |first=James |title=History of Indian and Eastern Architecture |origyear=1910 |edition=3rd |year=1997 |publisher=Low Price Publications |location= New Delhi |page=309}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> # The porches or ''Mantapas'', which always cover and precede the door leading to the cell.<br /> # Gate-pyramids, ''Gopuras'', which are the principal features in the quadrangular enclosures that surround the more notable temples. Gopuras are very common in Dravidian temples.<br /> # Pillared halls (''Chaultris'' or ''Chawadis'') are used for many purposes and are the invariable accompaniments of these temples.<br /> <br /> Besides these, a south Indian temple usually has a tank called the ''Kalyani'' or ''Pushkarni'' – to be used for sacred purposes or the convenience of the priests – dwellings for all the grades of the priesthood are attached to it, and other buildings for state or convenience.&lt;ref name=Fergusson/&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Theatre, dance and music===<br /> {{Main|Carnatic music|Ancient Tamil music|Music of Kerala|Music of Tamil Nadu|Music of Andhra Pradesh|Cinema of South India}}<br /> [[File:Kuchipudi1.jpg|thumb|right|200px|A [[Kuchipudi]] dancer.]]<br /> Literary evidence of traditional form of theatre, dance and music dates back to the 3rd century BCE.&lt;ref name=&quot;Nijenhuis 1974&quot;&gt;{{citation |last=Nijenhuis |first=Emmie te |title=Indian Music: History and Structure |publisher=Brill |place=Leiden |year=1974 |isbn=978-90-04-03978-0}} at pp. 4–5&lt;/ref&gt; Ancient literary works, such as the ''[[Cilappatikaram]]'', describe a [[Ancient Tamil music|system of music]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Nijenhuis 1974&quot; /&gt; The theatrical culture flourished during the early Sangam age. Theatre-dance traditions have a long and varied history whose origins can be traced back almost two millennia to dance-theatre forms like ''Kotukotti'', Kaapaalam and ''Pandarangam'', which are mentioned in an ancient anthology of poems entitled the [[Kaliththokai]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Fine Arts and Crafts in Pattu-p-pāṭṭu and Eṭṭu-t-tokai|author=C. Vaittiyaliṅkan̲|publisher=Annamalai University, 1977|page=162}}&lt;/ref&gt; Dance forms such as [[Bharatanatyam]] are based on older temple dance forms known as ''Catir Kacceri'', as practised by [[courtesans]] and a class of women known as ''[[Devadasis]]''.&lt;ref name=Leslie&gt;Leslie, Julia. '' Roles and rituals for Hindu women'', pp.149–152&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[Carnatic music]] originated in the Dravidian region. With the growing influence of Persian and Sufi music on Indian music, a clear distinction in style appeared from the 12th century onwards. Many literary works were composed in Carnatic style and it soon spread wide in the Dravidian regions. The most notable Carnatic musician is [[Purandara Dasa]] who lived in the court of [[Krishnadevaraya]] of the [[Vijayanagara]] empire. He formulated the basic structure of Carnatic music and is regarded as the ''Pitamaha'' (''lit'', &quot;father&quot; or the &quot;grandfather&quot;) of Carnatic Music. [[Kanakadasa]] is another notable Carnatic musician who was Purandaradasa's contemporary.<br /> <br /> Each of the major Dravidian languages has its own film industry like [[Kollywood]] (Tamil), [[Tollywood (Telugu)|Tollywood]] (Telugu), [[Kannada cinema|Sandalwood]] (Kannada), [[Malayalam cinema|Mollywood]] (Malayalam). Kollywood and Tollywood produce most films in India.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/Tamil-leads-as-India-tops-film-production/articleshow/21967065.cms |title=Tamil leads as India tops film production |date=22 December 2013 |newspaper=timesofindia.indiatimes/ |access-date=5 August 2017}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Clothing===<br /> {{Main|Lungi|Sari|Dhoti}}<br /> [[File:Salt field worker.jpg|left|thumb|Salt field worker in Tamil Nadu wearing Lungi]]<br /> [[File:Sari-and-Mundu.jpg|thumb|Woman wearing Sari Kerala style and man wearing Mundu]]<br /> Dravidian speakers in Southern India wear varied traditional costumes depending on their region, largely influenced by local customs and traditions. The most traditional dress for Dravidian men is the [[lungi]], or the more formal [[dhoti]], called ''veshti'' in Tamil, ''panche'' in Kannada and Telugu, and ''mundu'' in Malayalam. The lungi consists of a colorful checked cotton cloth. Many times these lungis are tube-shaped and tied around the waist, and can be easily tied above the knees for more strenuous activities. The lungi is usually everyday dress, used for doing labour while dhoti is used for more formal occasions. Many villagers have only a lungi as their article of clothing. The dhoti is generally white in color, and occasionally has a border of red, green or gold. Dhotis are usually made out of cotton for more everyday use, but the more expensive silk dhotis are used for special functions like festivals and weddings.<br /> <br /> Traditional dress of Dravidian women is typical of most Indian women, that of the sari. This sari consists of a cloth wrapped around the waist and draped over the shoulder. Originally saris were worn bare, but during the Victorian era, women began wearing blouse (called a ravike) along with sari. In fact, until the late 19th century most Kerala women did not wear any upper garments, or were forced to by law, and in many villages, especially in tribal communities, the sari is worn without the blouse. Unlike Indo-Aryan speakers, most Dravidian women do not cover their head with the pallu except in areas of North Karnataka. Due to the complexity of draping the sari, younger girls start with a skirt called a ''pavada''. When they get older, around the age when puberty begins, they transition to a [[Langa voni|''langa voni'']] or half-sari, which is composed of a skirt tied at the waist along with a cloth draped over a blouse. After adulthood girls begin using the sari. There are many different styles of sari draping varying across regions and communities. Examples are the [[Madisar]], specific to Tamil Brahmin Community, and the [[Mundum Neriyathum|Mundum neriyathum]], a very old Kerala style covering only the lower part of the body worn by lower castes.<br /> <br /> ===Martial arts and sports===<br /> {{Main|Kalaripayattu|Kuttu Varisai|Varma Kalai|Silambam|Adithada||Malyutham}}<br /> <br /> In [[Mahabaratha]], [[Bhishma]] claimed that Southerners are skilled with sword-fighting in general and [[Sahadeva]] was chosen for the conquest of the southern kingdoms due to his swordsmanship.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m12/m12a100.htm|title=Mahabharata Text}}&lt;/ref&gt; In South India various types of martial arts are practiced like [[Kalaripayattu]] and [[Silambam]].<br /> <br /> In ancient times there were ''[[ankam|ankams]]'', public duels to the death, to solve disputes between opposing rulers.&lt;ref name=&quot;Zarrilli 1998&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Zarrilli |first=Phillip B. |title=When the Body Becomes All Eyes: Paradigms, Discourses and Practices of Power in Kalaripayattu, a South Indian Martial Art |date=1998 |publisher=Oxford University Press |page= 95 |isbn=978-0-19-563940-7}}&lt;/ref&gt; Among some communities, young girls received preliminary training up until the onset of puberty.&lt;ref name=&quot;Zarrilli 1998&quot;/&gt; In ''vadakkan pattukal'' ballads, at least a few women warriors continued to practice and achieved a high degree of expertise.&lt;ref name=&quot;Zarrilli 1998&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Sports like [[Kambala]], [[Jallikattu]], [[Kabaddi]], [[Vallam Kali]], [[Lambs and Tigers]], [[Maramadi]] remain strong among Dravidian ethnic groups.<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> ;General<br /> * [[Dravidian languages]]<br /> * [[Dravidian University]] (dedicated to research and learning of Dravidian languages)<br /> <br /> ;Culture<br /> * [[Dance forms of Andhra Pradesh]]<br /> * [[Culture of Telangana]]<br /> * [[Arts of Kerala]]<br /> * [[Dance forms of Tamil Nadu]]<br /> * [[Folk arts of Karnataka]]<br /> <br /> ;Other<br /> * [[Proto-Indo-Europeans]]<br /> * [[Early Indians]]<br /> * [[Indo-Aryan people]]<br /> * [[Indian diaspora]]<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note|2}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{Reflist|30em}}<br /> <br /> == Sources ==<br /> {{refbegin|40em}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Basham |first=A.L. |author-link=A. L. Basham |date=1967 |title=The Wonder That was India |edition=3rd |location=London |publisher=[[Sidgwick &amp; Jackson]] |oclc=459272 |ref=harv |title-link=The Wonder That was India}}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Basu |first1=Analabha |last2=Sarkar-Roya |first2=Neeta |last3=Majumder |first3=Partha P. |title=Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure |journal=PNAS |date=9 February 2016 |volume=113 |issue=6 |pages=1594–9 |ref={{sfnref|Basu et al.|2016}}| bibcode=2016PNAS..113.1594B |doi=10.1073/pnas.1513197113 |pmid=26811443 |pmc=4760789}}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Cavalli-Sforza |first1=Luigi Luca |last2=Menozzi |first2=Paolo |last3=Piazza |first3=Alberto |year=1994 |title=The History and Geography of Human Genes |publisher=[[Princeton University Press]]}}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Coningham |first1=Robin |last2=Young |first2=Ruth |year=2015 |title=The Archaeology of South Asia: From the Indus to Asoka, c.6500 BCE–200 CE |publisher=[[Cambridge University Press]]}}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Derenko |first1=Miroslava |year=2013 |title=Complete Mitochondrial DNA Diversity in Iranians |journal=PLoS ONE |volume=8 |issue=11 |page=e80673 |doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0080673 |pmid=24244704 |pmc=3828245 |bibcode=2013PLoSO...880673D}}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Gallego Romero |first1=Irene |year=2011 |title=Herders of Indian and European Cattle Share their Predominant Allele for Lactase Persistence |journal=[[Molecular Biology and Evolution]] |volume=29 |issue=1 |pages=249–60 |doi=10.1093/molbev/msr190 |pmid=21836184 |display-authors=etal}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Heras |first=Henry |author-link=Henry Heras |date=1953 |title=Studies in Proto-Indo-Mediterranean Culture |location=Bombay |publisher=Indian Historical Research Institute |oclc=2799353 |ref=harv}}<br /> * {{citation |last=Kivisild |year=1999 |title=Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages |journal=[[Current Biology]] |volume=9 |issue=22 |pages=1331–1334 |url=http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf |display-authors=etal |pmid=10574762 |doi=10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 |access-date=21 March 2016 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20051030014804/http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf |archive-date=30 October 2005 |url-status=dead }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Knorozov |first=Yuri V. |author-link=Yuri Knorosov |date=1965 |chapter=Характеристика протоиндийского языка |trans-chapter=Characteristics of Proto-Indian language |title=Predvaritel'noe soobshchenie ob issledovanii protoindiyskikh textov |script-title=ru:Предварительное сообщение об исследовании протоиндийских текстов |trans-title=A Preliminary Report on the Study of Proto Texts |language=ru |location=Moscow |publisher=Institute of Ethnography of the USSR |ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Krishnamurti |first=Bhadriraju |authorlink=Bhadriraju Krishnamurti |date=2003 |title=The Dravidian Languages |series=Cambridge Language Surveys |publisher=Cambridge University Press |location=Cambridge |isbn=978-0-521-77111-5 |ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Mallory |first=J. P. |authorlink=J. P. Mallory |year=1989 |title=In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology and Myth |publisher=[[Thames and Hudson]] |location=London |isbn=978-0-500-05052-1 |ref=harv |url-access=registration |url=https://archive.org/details/insearchofindoeu00jpma }}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Metspalu |first1=Mait |year=2011 |title=Shared and Unique Components of Human Population Structure and Genome-Wide Signals of Positive Selection in South Asia |last2=Romero |first2=Irene Gallego |last3=Yunusbayev |first3=Bayazit |last4=Chaubey |first4=Gyaneshwer |last5=Mallick |first5=Chandana Basu |last6=Hudjashov |first6=Georgi |last7=Nelis |first7=Mari |last8=Mägi |first8=Reedik |last9=Metspalu |first9=Ene |last10=Remm |first10=Maido |last11=Pitchappan |first11=Ramasamy |last12=Singh |first12=Lalji |last13=Thangaraj |first13=Kumarasamy |last14=Villems |first14=Richard |last15=Kivisild |first15=Toomas |journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics |volume=89 |issue=6 |pages=731–744 |issn=0002-9297 |doi=10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 |ref={{sfnref|Metspalu et al.|2011}} |pmid=22152676 |pmc=3234374}}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Moorjani |first1=P. |year=2013 |title=Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India |last2=Thangaraj |first2=K. |last3=Patterson |first3=N. |last4=Lipson |first4=M. |last5=Loh |first5=P.R. |last6=Govindaraj |first6=P. |last7=Singh |first7=L. |journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics |volume=93 |issue=3 |pages=422–438 |doi=10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 |pmid=23932107 |pmc=3769933 |ref={{sfnref|Moorjani et al.|2013}}}}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{citation |last1=Narasimhan |first1=Vagheesh M. |last2=Anthony |first2=David |last3=Mallory |first3=James |last4=Reich |first4=David |year=2018 |title=The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia |journal=bioRxiv |pages=292581 |url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} |doi=10.1101/292581}}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Palanichamy |first1=Malliya Gounder |year=2015 |title=West Eurasian mtDNA lineages in India: an insight into the spread of the Dravidian language and the origins of the caste system |journal=Human Genetics |volume=134 |issue=6 |pages=637–647 |doi=10.1007/s00439-015-1547-4 |pmid=25832481}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Parpola |first=Asko |author-link=Asko Parpola |date=1994 |title=Deciphering the Indus script |location=New York |publisher=[[Cambridge University Press]] |isbn=978-0-521-43079-1 |ref=harv}}<br /> * {{citation |last=Parpola |first=Asko |year=2015 |title=The Roots of Hinduism. The Early Arians and the Indus Civilization |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]]}}<br /> * {{citation |last1=Reich |first1=David |year=2009 |last2=Thangaraj |first2=Kumarasamy |last3=Patterson |first3=Nick |last4=Price |first4=Alkes L. |last5=Singh |first5=Lalji |title=Reconstructing Indian population history |journal=Nature |volume=461 |issue=7263 |pages=489–494 |issn=0028-0836 |doi=10.1038/nature08365 |pmid=19779445 |pmc=2842210 |bibcode=2009Natur.461..489R |ref={{sfnref|Reich et al.|2009}}}}<br /> &lt;!-- S --&gt;<br /> * {{citation |last=Samuel |first=Geoffrey |year=2008 |title=The Origins of Yoga and Tantra: Indic Religions to the Thirteenth Century |publisher=Cambridge University Press}}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{citation |last=Tudu |first=Horen |year=2008 |chapter=Dravidians |title=Encyclopedia of the African Diaspora: Origins, Experiences, and Culture [3 volumes]: Origins, Experiences, and Culture|page=400|editor=Carole Elizabeth Boyce Davies|publisher=ABC-CLIO|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=nkVxNVvex-sC&amp;pg=PA400&amp;dq=dravidian|isbn=9781851097050}}<br /> * {{citation |last=Witzel |first=Michael |author-link=Michael Witzel |year=1995 |title=Early Sanskritization: Origin and Development of the Kuru state |journal=Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies |volume=1 |issue=4 |pages=1–26 |url=http://www.ejvs.laurasianacademy.com/ejvs0104/ejvs0104article.pdf |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20070611142934/http://www.ejvs.laurasianacademy.com/ejvs0104/ejvs0104article.pdf |archivedate=11 June 2007 |df=dmy}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Zvelebil |first=Kamil |authorlink=Kamil Zvelebil |year=1990 |title=Dravidian Linguistics: An Introduction |publisher=Pondicherry Institute of Linguistics and Culture |location=Pondicherry |isbn=978-81-85452-01-2 |ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Erdosy |first=George |year=1995 |title=The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia: Language, Material Culture and Ethnicity |publisher=de Gruyter |location=Berlin |isbn=978-3-11-014447-5}}<br /> * {{cite journal |doi=10.1007/s12041-008-0002-x |title=Genetic landscape of the people of India: A canvas for disease gene exploration |year=2008 |journal=[[Journal of Genetics]] |volume=87 |pages=3–20 |pmid=18560169 |author1=Indian Genome Variation Consortium |issue=1}}<br /> * {{cite book |last1=Thomason |first1=Sarah Grey |authorlink1=Sarah Thomason |first2=Terrence |last2=Kaufman |authorlink2=Terrence Kaufman |year=1988 |title=Language Contact, Creolization, and Genetic Linguistics |publisher=University of California Press |location=Berkeley |isbn=978-0-520-05789-0}}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> {{commons category|Dravidian people}}<br /> ;Origins<br /> * Akhilesh Pillalamarri, ''Where Did Indians Come from'', [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/unraveled-where-indians-come-from-part-1/ part1], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-indians-come-from-part-2-dravidians-and-aryans/ part 2], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-did-indians-come-from-part-3-what-is-caste/ part 3]<br /> * Scroll.in, {{cite web|url=https://scroll.in/article/874102/aryan-migration-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-study-on-indian-genetics|title=Aryan migration: Everything you need to know about the new study on Indian genetics}}, on Narasimhan (2018)<br /> ;Language<br /> * Bhadriraju Krishnamurti, [https://www.britannica.com/topic/Dravidian-languages ''Dravidian languages''], Encyclopædia Britannica<br /> * [https://www.mpg.de/11987643/dravidian-language-family ''Dravidian language family is approximately 4,500 years old''], Max-Planck-Gesellschaft<br /> <br /> {{Portalbar|India}}<br /> <br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:Dravidian People}}<br /> [[Category:Pre-Indo-Europeans]]<br /> [[Category:Dravidian people]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945433069 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T23:04:12Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */ /</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrito&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last yearclaiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. And that they found Chinese ancestry in Africans (recent Shum Lake paper didn't mention this part lol). There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, one of them is on several pages. He is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)<br /> I have removed them for now.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 23:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Negrito&diff=945423630 Negrito 2020-03-13T21:45:25Z <p>Ilber8000: Seee talk page</p> <hr /> <div>{{About|the ethnic groups|the shrub|Citharexylum berlandieri|the municipality|El Negrito|the bird genus|Lessonia (bird)}}<br /> {{Distinguish|Pygmy peoples}}<br /> {{short description|Set of ethnic groups in Austronesia}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=May 2012}}<br /> {{Infobox ethnic group<br /> |group = Negrito<br /> |image = Negrito group.png<br /> |caption = <br /> |population = <br /> |regions = <br /> {{flag|India}}&lt;br/&gt;{{smaller|([[Andaman and Nicobar Islands]])}}&lt;hr/&gt;<br /> {{flag|Malaysia}}&lt;br/&gt;{{smaller|([[Peninsular Malaysia]])}}&lt;hr/&gt;<br /> {{flagcountry|PHI}}&lt;br/&gt;{{smaller|([[Luzon]], [[Palawan]], [[Panay]], [[Negros (Philippines)|Negros]], and [[Mindanao]])}}&lt;hr/&gt;<br /> {{flag|Thailand}}&lt;br/&gt;{{smaller|([[Southern Thailand]])}}<br /> |languages = [[Andamanese languages]], [[Aslian languages]], [[Nicobarese languages]], [[Philippine Negrito languages]]<br /> |religions = [[Animism]], [[folk religion]]s<br /> }}<br /> [[File:Malaya 1905.jpg|thumb|[[Semang|Negrito group]] photo ([[British Malaya|Malaya]], 1905)]]<br /> <br /> The '''Negrito''' ({{IPAc-en|n|ɪ|ˈ|ɡ|r|iː|t|oʊ}}) are several diverse ethnic groups who inhabit isolated parts of [[Austronesia]].&lt;ref&gt;Snow, Philip. ''The Star Raft: China's Encounter With Africa.'' Cornell Univ. Press, 1989 ({{ISBN|0801495830}})&lt;/ref&gt; Their current populations include: the [[Andamanese peoples]] of the [[Andaman Islands]], the [[Semang]] and [[Batek people]]s of [[Peninsular Malaysia]], the [[Maniq people]] of [[Southern Thailand]], as well as the [[Aeta people|Aeta]], [[Ati people|Ati]], and about 30 other officially recognized [[ethnic groups in the Philippines]].<br /> <br /> Based on their physical similarities, Negritos were once considered a single population of related people. Some studies suggest that they include several separate groups, as well as demonstrating that they are not closely related to the [[African Pygmies|Pygmies of Africa]], while more recent studies find evidence for a close genetic relation between the various Negrito groups.&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu 1594–1599&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Basu|first=Analabha|last2=Sarkar-Roy|first2=Neeta|last3=Majumder|first3=Partha P.|date=2016-02-09|title=Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure|journal=Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America|volume=113|issue=6|pages=1594–1599|doi=10.1073/pnas.1513197113|issn=0027-8424|pmc=4760789|pmid=26811443}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chaubey|first=Gyaneshwer|last2=Endicott|first2=Phillip|date=2013-11-27|title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia|url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7|journal=Human Biology|volume=85|issue=1|pages=153–72|issn=0018-7143|doi=10.3378/027.085.0307|pmid=24297224}}&lt;/ref&gt; The pre-Neolithic Negrito populations of Southeast Asia were largely replaced by the expansion of Southern Mongoloid populations, beginning about 5,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;S. Noerwidi, &quot;Using Dental Metrical Analysis to Determine the Terminal Pleistocene and Holocene Population History of Java&quot;, in: Philip J. Piper, Hirofumi Matsumura, David Bulbeck (eds.), New Perspectives in Southeast Asian and Pacific Prehistory (2017), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=CDDFDgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA92 p. 92].&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Historically they engaged in trade with the local population that eventually invaded their lands and were also often subjugated to slave raids while also paying tributes to the local Southeast Asian rulers and kingdoms. Some Negrito pygmies from the southern forests were enslaved and exploited until modern times since 724 AD.&lt;ref&gt;[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=y0ExAQAAIAAJ&amp;q=Srivijaya+enslaved+negrito&amp;dq=Srivijaya+enslaved+negrito&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjOo43O-JvkAhWLTcAKHZI5AdEQ6AEIPTAD Archives of the Chinese Art Society of America]&lt;/ref&gt; While some have lived in isolation others have become assimilated with the general local population.<br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> The word ''Negrito'' is the Spanish [[diminutive]] of ''[[negro]]'', used to mean &quot;little black person&quot;. This usage was coined by 16th-century Spanish [[Catholic Church and the Age of Discovery|missionaries]] operating in the Philippines, and was borrowed by other European travellers and colonialists across Austronesia to label various peoples perceived as sharing relatively small physical stature and dark skin.&lt;ref name=Manickham-2009&gt;{{cite book|last=Manickham|first=Sandra Khor|editor=Hägerdal, Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}&lt;/ref&gt; Contemporary usage of an alternative Spanish epithet, ''Negrillos'', also tended to bundle these peoples with the [[pygmy peoples]] of [[Central Africa]], based on perceived similarities in stature and complexion.&lt;ref name=Manickham-2009/&gt; (Historically, the label ''Negrito'' has also been used to refer to African pygmies.)&lt;ref&gt;See, for example: ''Encyclopædia Britannica'' Eleventh Edition, 1910–1911: &quot;Second are the large Negrito family, represented in Africa by the dwarf-races of the equatorial forests, the [[Aka (Pygmy tribe)|Akkas]], [[Batwa]]s, [[Wochua]]s and others...&quot; (p. 851)&lt;/ref&gt; The appropriateness of using the label &quot;Negrito&quot; to bundle peoples of different [[ethnicity|ethnicities]] based on similarities in stature and complexion has been challenged.&lt;ref name=Manickham-2009/&gt;<br /> [[File:Negrito Fishing Boat, Philippines (1899).jpg|thumb|Negritos in a fishing boat ([[First Philippine Republic|Philippines]], 1899)]]<br /> Many online dictionaries give the plural in English as either &quot;Negritos&quot; or &quot;Negritoes&quot;, without preference. The plural in Spanish is &quot;Negritos&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Negrito|title=Definition of NEGRITO|website=www.merriam-webster.com}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Negrito|title=Negrito|via=The Free Dictionary}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Culture ==<br /> Most Negrito groups lived as [[hunter-gatherer]]&lt;nowiki/&gt;s, while some also used [[agriculture]]. Today most Negrito tribes live assimilated to the majority population of their homeland. Discrimination and [[poverty]] are often problems.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.rutufoundation.org/hunting-gathering-in-the-tropical-rainforest-something-for-children/|title=The {{sic|succesful|nolink=y}} revival of Negrito culture in the Philippines|date=2015-05-06|website=Rutu Foundation|language=en-US|access-date=2019-07-19}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Origins==<br /> [[File:Great Andamanese couple.jpg|thumb|upright|[[Great Andamanese]] couple in the [[Andaman Islands]], [[British Raj|India]] (1876)]]<br /> [[File:Early stages of the Austronesian diaspora showing best-fit genomic proportions of Austronesian-speaking peoples in ISEA and their inferred population movements.png|thumb|Map showing the suggested ancestry per ethnicity and tribes (red and yellow being the Negrito and Melanesian ancestry respectively)]]<br /> <br /> ===Genetics===<br /> <br /> ==== Haplogroups ====<br /> Paternal haplogroups found in some Negrito populations are Haplogroup D-M174*, a branch of [[Haplogroup D-M174|D-M174]] among Andaman Islanders, as well as [[Haplogroup O-P31]] which is also common among the now [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic-speaking]] Negrito peoples, such as the Maniq and the Semang in Malaysia.&lt;ref&gt;Craniodental Affinities of Southeast Asia's &quot;Negritos&quot; and the Concordance with Their Genetic Affinities by David Bulbeck 2013&lt;/ref&gt; The [[Onge]] and all the Adamanan Islanders belong strictly to the [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|mitochondrial Haplogroup M]] it is also the predominant marker of other Negrito tribes and Australian aborigines, Papuans.&lt;ref name=&quot;thangaraj2002&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=Genetic Affinities of the Andaman Islanders, a Vanishing Human Population | author=Kumarasamy Thangaraj, [[Lalji Singh]], Alla G. Reddy, V. Raghavendra Rao, Subhash C. Sehgal, Peter A. Underhill, Melanie Pierson, Ian G. Frame, and Erika Hagelberg | year=2002 | accessdate=2008-11-16 | url=http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/CB_2002_p1-18.pdf | archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20081029071336/http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/CB_2002_p1-18.pdf | archivedate=29 October 2008 | url-status=dead | df=dmy-all }}&lt;/ref&gt; Analysis of mtDNA, which is inherited exclusively by maternal descent, confirms the above results. All Onge belong to mDNA M, which is unique to Onge people.&lt;ref name=&quot;endicott2003&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The Genetic Origins of the Andaman Islanders |author1=M. Phillip Endicott |author2=Thomas P. Gilbert |author3=Chris Stringer |author4=Carles Lalueza-Fox |author5=Eske Willerslev |author6=Anders J. Hansen |author7=Alan Cooper | year=2003 | accessdate = 2009-04-21 | url=http://www.dna.gfy.ku.dk/course/papers/B2.endicott.pdf | journal=American Journal of Human Genetics | volume=72 | issue=1 | pages=178–184| pmid=12478481 | doi=10.1086/345487 | pmc=378623}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|last=Reich|first=David|author2=Kumarasamy Thangaraj |author3=Nick Patterson |author4=Alkes L. Price |author5=Lalji Singh |title=Reconstructing Indian Population History|journal=Nature|volume=461|issue=7263|pages=489–494|doi=10.1038/nature08365|date=24 September 2009|pmid=19779445|pmc=2842210}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:A Negrito from Negros Island (c. 1900, Philippines).jpg|thumb|left|A Negrito man with a hunting bow (c. 1900) from [[Negros Island]], [[First Philippine Republic|Philippines]]]]<br /> Most other Negritos, like the [[Aeta people|Aeta]] or [[Ati people]] are of great interest to genetic, anthropological and historical researchers because at least 83% of them belong to haplogroup [[Haplogroup K2b (Y-DNA)|K2b]], in the form of its rare primary clades [[Haplogroup K2b1 (Y-DNA)|K2b1*]] and [[Haplogroup P (Y-DNA)|P*]] (a.k.a. K2b2* or P-P295*). Most Aeta males (60%) carry [[Haplogroup K2b1 (Y-DNA)|K-P397]] (K2b1), which is otherwise uncommon in the Philippines and is strongly associated with the indigenous peoples of [[Melanesia]] and [[Micronesia]]. Basal P* is rare outside the Aeta and some other groups within Maritime Southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;isogg2016&quot;&gt;[http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpP.html ISOGG, 2016, ''Y-DNA Haplogroup P and its Subclades – 2016''] (20 June 2016).&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2009 study by the [[Anthropological Survey of India]] and the [[Texas Biomedical Research Institute]] identified seven genomes from 26 isolated &quot;relic tribes&quot; from the Indian mainland, such as the [[Baiga tribe]], which share &quot;two synonymous polymorphisms with the [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M42 haplogroup]], which is specific to [[Indigenous Australians|Australian Aborigines]]&quot;. These were specific [[Human mitochondrial genetics|mtDNA]] mutations that are shared exclusively by Australian aborigines and these Indian tribes, and no other known human groupings.&lt;ref name=&quot;bmc2009ksg&quot;&gt;{{Citation|author1=Satish Kumar|title=Reconstructing Indian-Australian phylogenetic link|date=22 July 2009|journal=BMC Evolutionary Biology|volume=9|page=173|doi=10.1186/1471-2148-9-173|pmc=2720955|pmid=19624810|quote=In our completely sequenced 966-mitochondrial genomes from 26 relic tribes of India, we have identified seven genomes, which share two synonymous polymorphisms with the M42 haplogroup, which is specific to Australian Aborigines…direct genetic evidence of an early colonization of Australia through south Asia|author2=Rajasekhara Reddy Ravuri|author3=Padmaja Koneru|author4=BP Urade|author5=BN Sarkar|author6=A Chandrasekar|author7=VR Rao}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Bulbeck (2013) shows the Andamanese maternal mtDNA is entirely [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|mitochondrial Haplogroup M]] .&lt;ref name=&quot;Bulbeck&quot; /&gt; Their Y-DNA belong to the D haplogroup which has not been seen outside of the Andamans, a fact that underscores the insularity of these tribes.&lt;ref name=&quot;thangaraj2002&quot; /&gt; Analysis of mtDNA, which is inherited exclusively by maternal descent, confirms the above results. All Onge belong to tmDNA M, which is unique to Onge people.&lt;ref name=&quot;endicott2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==== Origin and ethnic relations ====<br /> A study of [[human blood group systems]] and proteins in the 1950s suggested that the [[Andamanese peoples]] were more closely related to Oceanic peoples than African pygmy peoples. Genetic studies on Philippine Negritos, based on polymorphic blood enzymes and antigens, showed that they were similar to their surrounding populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thangaraj2002&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Negrito peoples may descend from the first settlers of South and Southeast Asia. Despite being isolated, the different peoples do share [[population genetics|genetic similarities]] with their neighboring populations.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thangaraj2002&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Stock-2013&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|last=Stock|first=JT|year=2013|title=The skeletal phenotype of &quot;negritos&quot; from the Andaman Islands and Philippines relative to global variation among hunter-gatherers|url=http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2052&amp;context=humbiol|journal=[[Human Biology (journal)|Human Biology]]|volume=85|issue=1–3|pages=67–94|doi=10.3378/027.085.0304|pmid=24297221}}&lt;/ref&gt; They also show relevant [[phenotypic]] (anatomic) variations which require explanation.&lt;ref name=&quot;Stock-2013&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:A young Onge mother with her baby.jpg|thumb|upright|A young [[Onge]] mother with her baby ([[Andaman Islands]], [[British Raj|India]], 1905)]]<br /> This has often been interpreted to the effect that they are remnants of the original expansion from Africa some 70,000 years ago. Studies in osteology, cranial shape and dental morphology have connected the Semang to Australoid populations, while connecting the Andamanese to Africans in craniometry and to South Asians in dental morphology, and Philippine Negritos to Southeast Asians. A possible conclusion of this is that the dispersal of mitochondrial haplogroup B4a1a is connected to the distinction between Philippine and other Negritos.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bulbeck&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|last=Bulbeck|first=David|title=Craniodental Affinities of Southeast Asia's &quot;Negritos&quot; and the Concordance with Their Genetic Affinities|journal=Human Biology|date=November 2013|volume=85|issue=1|url=http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2053&amp;context=humbiol|accessdate=17 December 2013|doi=10.3378/027.085.0305|pages=95–134|pmid=24297222}}&lt;/ref&gt; However, another study suggests that the Onge (indigenous to Little Andaman) are more closely related to Southeast Asian Negritos, Melanesians, and Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians, and that the Great Andamanese (of the northern Andamans, as opposed to the Onge or other Andamanese groups) &quot;appear to have received a degree of relatively recent admixture from adjacent regional populations but also share a significant degree of genetic ancestry with Malaysian negrito groups&quot;.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chaubey|first=Gyaneshwer|last2=Endicott|first2=Phillip|date=2013-02-01|title=The Andaman Islanders in a regional genetic context: reexamining the evidence for an early peopling of the archipelago from South Asia|journal=Human Biology|volume=85|issue=1–3|pages=153–172|doi=10.3378/027.085.0307|issn=1534-6617|pmid=24297224|url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2055&amp;context=humbiol}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:PCA of Orang Asli and Andamanese with world populations in HGDP.png|thumb|left|Principal Component analysis of Australo-Melanesians with world populations (Aghakhanian et al. 2015)]]A recent genetic study found that unlike other early groups in [[Oceania]], Andamanese Negritos lack [[Denisovan#Interbreeding|Denisovan hominin admixture]] in their DNA. Denisovan ancestry is found among indigenous Melanesian and Aboriginal Australian populations at between 4–6%.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | last1 = Reich | display-authors = etal | year = 2011 | title = Denisova Admixture and the First Modern Human Dispersals into Southeast Asia and Oceania | url = | journal = The American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89| issue = 4| pages = 516–528| doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.09.005 | pmid = 21944045 | pmc=3188841}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|quote=About 3% to 5% of the DNA of people from Melanesia (islands in the southwest Pacific Ocean), Australia and New Guinea as well as aboriginal people from the Philippines comes from the Denisovans.|url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/09/health/oldest-human-dna/|title=Oldest human DNA found in Spain – Elizabeth Landau's interview of Svante Paabo|publisher=CNN|date=2013-12-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Some studies have suggested that each group should be considered separately, as the genetic evidence refutes the notion of a specific shared ancestry between the &quot;Negrito&quot; groups of the Andaman Islands, the Malay Peninsula, and the Philippines.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |url=http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/msl124v1.pdf |title=Phylogeography and Ethnogenesis of Aboriginal Southeast Asians |author1=Catherine Hill |author2=Pedro Soares |author3=Maru Mormina |author4=Vincent Macaulay |author5=William Meehan |author6=James Blackburn |author7=Douglas Clarke |author8=Joseph Maripa Raja |author9=Patimah Ismail |author10=David Bulbeck |author11=Stephen Oppenheimer |author12=Martin Richards |year=2006 |journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution |doi=10.1093/molbev/msl124 |pmid=16982817 |volume=23 |issue=12 |pages=2480–91 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20080409132033/http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/msl124v1.pdf |archivedate=9 April 2008 |df=dmy-all }}&lt;/ref&gt; Indeed, this sentiment is echoed in a more recent work from 2013 which concludes that &quot;at the current level of genetic resolution&amp;nbsp;... there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as 'negritos'.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Recent studies, concerning the population history of Southeast Asia, suggest that most modern Negrito populations in Southeast Asia show a rather strong &quot;Mongoloid&quot; admixture (Austronesian and Austroasiatic), ranging between 30% to 50% of their ancestry.&lt;ref&gt;Reconstructing Austronesian population history in Island Southeast Asia - Lipson et al. (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2014/05/27/005603.full.pdf)&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Chaubey et al. 2013 notes that the Andamanese people are closely related to other Negrito populations as well as [[Melanesians]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chaubey, Gyaneshwer|last2=Endicott, Phillip|date=2013|title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia|url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7|journal=Human Biology|language=en|volume=85|issue=1|pages=153–72|issn=0018-7143|doi=10.3378/027.085.0307|pmid=24297224}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), Andamanese and other Negrito populations are closely related and share also partial relation to [[Indigenous people of New Guinea]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Basu 1594–1599&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Narasimhan et al. 2018 observe that samples from the [[Indus Valley Civilisation]] population in northern [[India]] are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI (Andamanese-related hunter gatherers) and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry. According Narasimhan the genetic makeup of the ASI (Ancestral South Indian) population consisted of about 73% AASI/Andamanese-related and about 27% Iranian-related ancestry.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Narasimhan|first=Vagheesh M.|last2=Patterson|first2=Nick|last3=Moorjani|first3=Priya|last4=Lazaridis|first4=Iosif|last5=Lipson|first5=Mark|last6=Mallick|first6=Swapan|last7=Rohland|first7=Nadin|last8=Bernardos|first8=Rebecca|last9=Kim|first9=Alexander M.|last10=Nakatsuka|first10=Nathan|last11=Olalde|first11=Iñigo|date=2018-03-31|title=The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia|url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1|journal=bioRxiv|language=en|pages=292581|doi=10.1101/292581}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In 2019, Narasimhan shows that the ASI (Ancestral South Asians) are descendants of the AASI with following admixture from Iranian-related agriculturalists. He further notes that the high correlation between [[Dravidian peoples|Dravidian]] and ASI ancestry may suggest that the Dravidians (and the proto-Dravidian language) originated from the AASI component and is native to the peninsula of India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Narasimhan|first=Vagheesh M.|last2=Patterson|first2=Nick|last3=Moorjani|first3=Priya|last4=Rohland|first4=Nadin|last5=Bernardos|first5=Rebecca|last6=Mallick|first6=Swapan|last7=Lazaridis|first7=Iosif|last8=Nakatsuka|first8=Nathan|last9=Olalde|first9=Iñigo|last10=Lipson|first10=Mark|last11=Kim|first11=Alexander M.|date=2019-09-06|title=The Formation of Human Populations in South and Central Asia|journal=Science|volume=365|issue=6457|pages=eaat7487|doi=10.1126/science.aat7487|issn=0036-8075|pmc=6822619|pmid=31488661}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Anthropology===<br /> [[File:Ati woman.jpg|thumb|An [[Ati (tribe)|Ati]] woman of [[Kalibo]], Philippines in 2006]]<br /> <br /> A number of features would seem to suggest a common origin for the Negrito and [[Pygmy peoples]], including short stature, dark skin, scant body hair, and occasional [[steatopygia]] (large, curvaceous buttocks and thighs). The claim that the [[Andamanese]] more closely resemble African pygmies than other Austronesian populations in their cranial morphology in a study of 1973 added some weight to this theory, before genetic studies pointed to a closer relationship with their neighbours.&lt;ref name=&quot;Thangaraj2002&quot;&gt;{{citation|first=Kumarasamy|last=Thangaraj|title=Genetic Affinities of the Andaman Islanders, a Vanishing Human Population|url=http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/CB_2002_p1-18.pdf|doi=10.1016/S0960-9822(02)01336-2|pmid=12546781|journal=Current Biology|volume=13|issue=2|pages=86–93|date=21 January 2003|display-authors=etal|url-status=dead|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20081029071336/http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/CB_2002_p1-18.pdf|archivedate=29 October 2008|df=dmy-all}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Multiple studies also show that Negritos share a closer cranial affinity with [[Aboriginal Australians]] and [[Melanesians]].&lt;ref name=&quot;WH_Getting_Here&quot;&gt;William Howells (1993). [https://books.google.com/books?id=HLFzywF8OFsC&amp;pg=PA222 ''Getting Here: The Story of Human Evolution'']. Compass Press.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{citation|title=Races of Homo sapiens: if not in the southwest Pacific, then nowhere|author1=David Bulbeck |author2=Pathmanathan Raghavan |author3=Daniel Rayner |journal=World Archaeology|volume=38|issue=1|pages=109–132|issn=0043-8243|doi=10.1080/00438240600564987|year=2006|jstor=40023598|citeseerx = 10.1.1.534.3176}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> * [[Proto-Australoid]]<br /> * [[Pygmy peoples]]<br /> * [[Australo-Melanesian]]<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> * {{EB1911|wstitle=Negritos}}<br /> <br /> ===References===<br /> {{reflist|2}}<br /> <br /> ==Further reading==<br /> * Evans, Ivor Hugh Norman. ''The Negritos of Malaya''. Cambridge [Eng.]: University Press, 1937.<br /> * Benjamin, Geoffrey. 2013. ‘Why have the Peninsular “Negritos” remained distinct?’ ''Human Biology'' 85: 445–484. [ISSN 0018-7143 (print), 1534-6617 (online)]<br /> * Garvan, John M., and Hermann Hochegger. ''The Negritos of the Philippines''. Wiener Beitrage zur Kulturgeschichte und Linguistik, Bd. 14. Horn: F. Berger, 1964.<br /> * Hurst Gallery. ''Art of the Negritos''. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Hurst Gallery, 1987.<br /> * Khadizan bin Abdullah, and Abdul Razak Yaacob. ''Pasir Lenggi, a Bateq Negrito Resettlement Area in Ulu Kelantan''. Pulau Pinang: Social Anthropology Section, School of Comparative Social Sciences, Universití Sains Malaysia, 1974.<br /> * Mirante, Edith (2014). ''The Wind in the Bamboo: Journeys in Search of Asia's 'Negrito' Indigenous Peoples''. Bangkok, Orchid Press.<br /> * Schebesta, P., &amp; Schütze, F. (1970). ''The Negritos of Asia''. Human relations area files, 1-2. New Haven, Conn: Human Relations Area Files.<br /> * [[Armando Marques Guedes]] (1996). ''Egalitarian Rituals. Rites of the Atta hunter-gatherers of Kalinga-Apayao, Philippines'', Social and Human Sciences Faculty, [[Universidade Nova de Lisboa]].<br /> * Zell, Reg. ''About the Negritos: A Bibliography''. edition blurb, 2011.<br /> * Zell, Reg. ''Negritos of the Philippines''. The People of the Bamboo - Age - A Socio-Ecological Model. edition blurb, 2011.<br /> * Zell, Reg, John M. Garvan. ''An Investigation: On the Negritos of Tayabas''. edition blurb, 2011.<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> {{Commons category|Negrito}}<br /> {{AmCyc Poster|Negritos}}<br /> * [http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20329 ''Negritos of Zambales'']—detailed book written by an American at the turn of the previous century holistically describing the Negrito culture<br /> * [https://web.archive.org/web/20130520173144/http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter36/text36.htm Andaman.org: The Negrito of Thailand]<br /> * [http://www.sac.or.th/databases/siamrarebooks/main/index.php/history/jss/314-the-southeast-asian-negrito The Southeast Asian Negrito]<br /> <br /> {{Negritos}}<br /> {{ph-negrito-lang}}<br /> {{Historical definitions of race}}<br /> {{Authority control}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Negritos| ]]<br /> [[Category:Demographics of the Philippines]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in Malaysia]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in Thailand]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in the Philippines]]<br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of Southeast Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Austronesian peoples]]<br /> [[Category:Negro]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Australo-Melanesian&diff=945420972 Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T21:21:41Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Genetics */ Seee talk page</p> <hr /> <div>{{multiple image<br /> | total_width = 470<br /> | perrow = 4<br /> | image1 = Femmes_kanak2.jpg<br /> | image2 = Music_show_in_Fiji.jpg<br /> | image3 = Vanuatu_blonde.jpg<br /> | image4 = Ati_woman.jpg<br /> | image5 = Friends2.jpg<br /> | image6 = 1981 event Australian aboriginals.jpg<br /> | image7 = Great Andamanese - two men - 1875.jpg<br /> | footer_align = left<br /> | footer = '''Left to right''': New Caledonian women; Fijian musicians; a boy from Vanuatu; an Ati girl from the Philippines; Papuan girls; Aboriginal Australian dancers; Andamanese men.<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{short description|Group of populations indigenous to Maritime Southeast Asia and Oceania.}}<br /> <br /> In [[physical anthropology]], [[forensic anthropology]] and [[archaeogenetics]], '''Australo-Melanesians''' (also '''Australasian, Australomelanesoid''' or '''Australoid''')&lt;ref name=&quot;LCS1994&quot;&gt;Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi, Alberto Piazza, ''The History and Geography of Human Genes'' (1994), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=FrwNcwKaUKoC&amp;pg=PA241 p. 241]. R. P. Pathak, ''Education in the Emerging India'' (2007), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=z_OCjp-T2vIC&amp;pg=PA137 p. 137].&lt;/ref&gt; form a group of populations indigenous to [[Southeast Asia]] and [[Oceania]] as well as parts of [[South Asia]].<br /> <br /> The group includes [[Papuan people|Papuans]], [[Aboriginal Australians]], [[Melanesians]] (mainly from [[Fiji]], [[New Caledonia]] and [[Vanuatu]]) and the populations grouped as &quot;[[Negrito]]&quot; (the [[Andamanese]], the [[Semang]] and [[Batek people]]s, the [[Maniq people]], the [[Aeta people]], the [[Ati people]], and certain other [[ethnic groups in the Philippines]]).<br /> <br /> The [[Vedda|Vedda people]] in [[Sri Lanka]] and a number of [[Dark skin|dark-skinned]] [[Adivasi|tribal populations]] in the interior of the [[Indian subcontinent]] (some [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian-speaking]] groups and [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic-speaking]] peoples, like the [[Munda people]]) are also suggested by some to belong to the Australo-Melanesian group,&lt;ref name=&quot;p. 26&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Coon 1939 425–431&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;p. 26&quot;/&gt; but there are controversies about this inclusion.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kulatilake&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal |last=Kulatilake |first=Samanti |title=Cranial Morphology of the Vedda people - the indigenes of Sri Lanka|url= https://www.academia.edu/9637404}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The term ''Australoid'' belongs to a set of terms introduced by 19th-century anthropologists attempting to categorize human races. Some claim such terms are associated with outdated notions of racial types, and so are now potentially offensive.&lt;ref name=&quot;B2011&quot;&gt;{{cite book|last1=Black|first1=Sue|last2=Ferguson|first2=Eilidh|title=Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010|date=2011|publisher=Taylor and Francis Group|page=127|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127|accessdate=3 July 2018|isbn=9781439845899}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Fluehr-Lobban2011&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Fluehr-Lobban |first=C. |title=Race and racism : an Introduction |publisher=Lanham : Rowman &amp; Littlefield |date=2005 |pages=131–133 |url= https://books.google.it/books?id=3lq3XDz39pIC&amp;pg=PA132&amp;lpg=PA131|isbn=9780759107953 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford&quot;&gt;{{cite web| title = Ask Oxford – Definition of Australoid| publisher = [[Oxford Dictionary of English]]|year=2018| url = https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/australoid| accessdate = 2018-06-28}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history==<br /> [[File:Meyers map.jpg|thumb|230px|Australians were marked as Negroid on the racial ''[[Meyers Konversations-Lexikon]]'' (1885-90)]]<br /> <br /> {{anchor|Australoid race}}<br /> <br /> The term &quot;Australoid&quot; was coined in ethnology in the mid 19th century, describing tribes or populations &quot;of the type of native Australians&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;J.R. Logan (ed.), ''The Journal of the Indian archipelago and eastern Asia'' (1859), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=iW0EAAAAQAAJ&amp;pg=PA68 p. 68].&lt;/ref&gt; In [[physical anthropology]], ''Australoid'' is used for morphological features characteristic of Aboriginal Australians by [[Daniel John Cunningham]] in his ''Text-book of Anatomy'' (1902). An ''Australioid'' (''sic'', with an additional ''-i-'') racial group was first proposed by [[Thomas Huxley]] in an essay ''On the Geographical Distribution of the Chief Modifications of Mankind'' (1870), in which he divided humanity into four principal groups (Xanthochroic, [[Mongoloid]], [[Negroid]], and Australioid).&lt;ref&gt;[http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/SM3/GeoDis.html Huxley, Thomas On the Geographical Distribution of the Chief Modifications of Mankind. 1870. August 14, 2006]&lt;/ref&gt; Huxley's original model included the native inhabitants of [[South Asia]] under the Australoid category. Huxley further classified the [[Mediterranean race|Melanochroi]] (Peoples of the [[Mediterranean race]]) as a mixture of the [[Nordic race|Xanthochroi]] (northern Europeans) and Australioids.&lt;ref&gt;Huxley, Thomas. On the Geographical Distribution of the Chief Modifications of Mankind. 1870. August 14, 2006. [http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/SM3/GeoDis.html]&lt;/ref&gt; <br /> <br /> Huxley (1870) described Australioids as [[dolichocephalic]]; their hair as usually silky, black and wavy or curly, with large, heavy jaws and [[prognathism]], with skin the color of chocolate and irises which are dark brown or black.&lt;ref name=&quot;aleph0.clarku.edu&quot;&gt;[[Thomas Henry Huxley|Huxley, T. H.]] &quot;[http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/SM3/GeoDis.html On the Geographical Distribution of the Chief Modifications of Mankind]&quot; (1870) ''Journal of the Ethnological Society of London''&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The term &quot;Proto-Australoid&quot; was used by [[Roland Burrage Dixon]] in his ''Racial History of Man'' (1923). In a 1962 publication, Australoid was described as one of the five major human races alongside [[Caucasoid]], [[Mongoloid]], Congoid and Capoid.&lt;ref&gt;Moore, Ruth ''Evolution'' (Life Nature Library) New York:1962 Time, Inc. Chapter 8: &quot;The Emergence of Modern ''Homo sapiens''&quot; Page 173 – First page of picture section &quot;Man and His Genes&quot;: &quot;The ''Australoid'' race is identified as one of the five major races of mankind, along with the ''[[Mongoloid race|Mongoloid]]'', ''[[Congoid]]'', ''[[Caucasoid race|Caucasoid]]'', and ''[[Capoid race|Capoid]]'' races (pictures of a person typical of each race are shown)&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; In ''The Origin of Races'' (1962), [[Carleton S. Coon|Carleton Coon]] attempted to refine such [[scientific racism]] by introducing a system of five races with separate origins. Based on such evidence as claiming Australoids had the largest, megadont teeth, this group was assessed by Coon as being the most archaic and therefore the most primitive and backward. Coon's methods and conclusions were later discredited and show either a &quot;poor understanding of human cultural history and [[evolution]] or his use of [[ethnology]] for a [[racialism|racialist]] agenda.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Fluehr-Lobban2011&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Fluehr-Lobban |first=C. |title=Race and racism : an Introduction |publisher=Lanham : Rowman &amp; Littlefield |date=2005 |pages=131–133 |url= https://books.google.it/books?id=3lq3XDz39pIC&amp;pg=PA132&amp;lpg=PA131|isbn=9780759107953 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Bellwood (1985) uses the terms &quot;Australoid&quot;, &quot;Australomelanesoid&quot; and &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot; to describe the genetic heritage of &quot;the Southern [[Mongoloid]] populations of [[Indonesia]] and [[Malaysia]]&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Bellwood|first=Peter|title=Prehistory of the Indo-Malaysian Archipelago|publisher=Australian National University|year=1985|isbn=978-1-921313-11-0|url=https://books.google.com/?id=4obAfGBGKY0C&amp;pg=RA1-PA346&amp;lpg=RA1-PA346&amp;dq=australomelanesoid}}&lt;/ref&gt; Since the 1980s, anthropological terms in &quot;-oid&quot; have come to be avoided in some disciplines, especially in the United States, where the term Australo-Melanesian is now preferred.{{year needed|date=October 2018}} In other areas, specifically in anthropological literature in India, the term Australoid continues to be preferred.&lt;ref&gt;[[Ram Nath Sharma]], [[Rajendra Kumar Sharma]], ''Anthropology'' (1997), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=dDrYsjGq35wC&amp;pg=PA135#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false].&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Controversies ==<br /> <br /> === Inclusion ===<br /> The [[Vedda|Vedda people]] in [[Sri Lanka]] and a number of [[Dark skin|dark-skinned]] [[Adivasi|tribal populations]] in the interior of the [[Indian subcontinent]] (some [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian-speaking]] groups and some [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic-speaking]] groups, such as the [[Munda people]], [[Bonda people|Bonda]], Khonda Dora, and [[Ho people|Ho]]) are also suggested by some to belong to the Australoid group,&lt;ref name=&quot;p. 26&quot;&gt;{{cite book|url= https://books.google.com/books?id=ErE0DwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PP26 |first1=T |last1=Pullaiah |first2=KV |last2=Krishnamurthy |first3=Bir |last3=Bahadur |title=Ethnobotany of India, Volume 5: The Indo-Gangetic Region and Central India |year=2017 |p=26|isbn=9781351741316 }} names the tribes of Chota Nagpur, the Baiga, Gond, Bhil, Santal and Oroan tribes; counted as of partial Australoid and partial [[Mongoloid]] ancestry are certain Munda-speaking groups (Munda, Bonda, Gadaba, Santals) and certain Dravidian-speaking groups (Maria, Muria, Gond, Oroan).&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Coon 1939 425–431&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Coon |first=Carleton Stevens |year=1939 |location=[[New York City |New York]] |publisher=[[The Macmillan Company]] |title=The Races of Europe|url= https://archive.org/details/racesofeurope031695mbp |authorlink=Carleton S. Coon |pages=425–431}}&lt;/ref&gt; but there are controversies about this inclusion. Research involving cranial morphology, made by Indian anthropologists, however, suggests that the South Asian Indian populations have different cranial characteristics from Australoid groups. This difference has possibly been strengthened in recent times due to [[Interracial marriage|intermarriage]] with peoples of different origins.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal |last=Reich |first=David |last2=Pinhasi |first2=Ron |last3=Frachetti |first3=Michael |last4=Kennett |first4=Douglas |last5=Thangaraj |first5=Kumarasmy |last6=Boivin |first6=Nicole |last7=Anthony |first7=David |last8=Meyer |first8=Matthias |last9=Lalueza-Fox |first9=Carles |date=2018-03-31 |title=The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia|url= https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 |journal=bioRxiv |pages=292581 |doi=10.1101/292581}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kulatilake&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;p. 26&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Coon 1939 425–431&quot;/&gt; A genetic study in 1985 suggested connections between tribal peoples of Southern India and Sri Lanka and Negrito populations of the [[Philippines]] and [[Malaysia]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news|url=http://hellis.cmb.ac.lk:8180/handle/123456789/7520|title=A Genetic study of the Veddas of Sri Lanka|author=ELLEPOLA, SB|publisher=Hellis Digital Repository, Sri Lanka|date=1985|accessdate=2019-01-20}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> === Distribution ===<br /> {{see|Aboriginal Australians|Melanesians|Papuans|Negrito}}<br /> <br /> Besides the [[Papuans]], [[Australian Aboriginals]], [[Melanesians]], and [[Negritos]], the &quot;Australoid&quot; category is often taken to include various [[tribes of India]].<br /> <br /> The inclusion of Indian tribes in the group is not well-defined, and is closely related to the question of the original [[peopling of India]], and the possible shared ancestry between Indian, Andamanese, and [[Australia (continent)|Sahulian]] populations of the Upper Paleolithic.<br /> <br /> The suggested Australoid ancestry of the original South Asian populations has long remained an open question. It was embraced by Indian anthropologists as emphasizing the deep antiquity of Indian prehistory. Australoid hunter-gatherer and fisherman tribes of the interior of India were identified with the [[Nishada Kingdom]] described in the [[Mahabharata]]. [[Panchanan Mitra]] (1923) following Vincenzo Giuffrida-Ruggeri (1913) recognizes a Pre-Dravidian ''Australo-Veddaic'' stratum in India.&lt;ref&gt;P. Mitra, ''Prehistoric India'' (1923), p. 48.&lt;/ref&gt; <br /> <br /> Alternatively, the [[Dravidians]] themselves have been claimed as originally of Australoid stock,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last1=Sarat Chandra Roy (Ral Bahadur)|title=Man in India - Volume 80|date=2000|publisher=A. K. Bose|page=59|url=https://www.google.com/books?id=wPhEAQAAIAAJ|accessdate=21 May 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt; a view held by [[Biraja Sankar Guha]] among others.&lt;ref&gt;R. R. Bhattacharya et al. (eds., ''Anthropology of B.S. Guha: a centenary tribute'' (1996), p. 50.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> South Indian tribes specifically described as having Australoid affinities include the [[Oraon]], [[Munda people|Munda]], [[Santal]], [[Bhil]], [[Gondi people|Gondi]], the [[Tribals in Kerala|Kadars]] of Kerala, the [[Kuruba|Kurumba]] and [[Irula people|Irula]] of the [[Nilgiris]], the [[Paniya people|Paniyans]] of Malabar, the [[Urali Gounder|Uralis]], [[Tribals in Kerala|Kannikars]], [[Mithuvan]] and [[Chenchu people|Chenchus]].&lt;ref&gt;Mhaiske, Vinod M., Patil, Vinayak K., Narkhede, S. S., ''Forest Tribology And Anthropology'' (2016), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=sbs4DwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA5 p. 5]. Bhuban Mohan Das, ''The Peoples of Assam'' (1987), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=wcIOc0YaxGEC&amp;pg=PA78 p. 78].&lt;/ref&gt;.<br /> <br /> But other Indian anthropologists of the post-colonial period, such as S. P. Sharma (1971) and D. N. Majumdar (1946, 1965),&lt;!--Dhirendra Nath Majumdar, also spelled Majumder--&gt; have gone as far as claiming Australoid ancestry, to a greater or lesser extent, for almost all the castes and tribes of India.&lt;ref&gt;cited after Bhuban Mohan Das, ''The Peoples of Assam'' (1987), 77f. &quot;Majumder also subscribes to this view by saying that 'the Australoid features are found throughout the length and breadth of Indian subcontinent 90% of Indian racial genetics population.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Kulatilake&quot; /&gt; <br /> <br /> According to a large craniometric study (Raghavan and Bulbeck et al. 2013) the native populations of South Asia have distinct craniometric and anthropologic ancestry. Both southern and northern groups are most similar to each other and have generally closer affinities to various &quot;[[Caucasoid]]&quot; groups. The study further showed that the native South Asians (including the [[Vedda]]) form a distinct group and are not aligned to the &quot;[[Australoid]]&quot; group. However, Raghavan and Bulbeck et al., while noting the differences of South Asian from Andamanese and Australoid crania, also explain that this is not in conflict with genetic evidence (found by Reich et al. in 2009) showing a common ancestry and genetic affinity between ancient South Asian hunter gatherers and the native Andamanese (a group sometimes considered to be related to Australoids), stating: &quot;The distinctiveness of Andamanese and southern Indian crania need not challenge the finding by Reich et al. for an “Ancestral South Indian” ancestry shared by southern Indians and Andamanese&quot; and that &quot;some populations are craniometrically specialised while others are not...What the present analysis adds is that southern Indians also have specialised craniometrics. Andamanese on the other hand have unspecialised craniometrics...Therefore, southern Indians' craniometric distinctiveness from Andamanese should be interpreted as a result of their craniometric specialisation rather than as evidence against a shared, ancient ancestry with Andamanese.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|title=Indian Craniometric Variability and Affinities|volume=2013|pages=836738|last=Rathee|first=Suresh Kanta|last2=Pathmanathan|first2=Gayathiri|date=2013|journal=International Journal of Evolutionary Biology|language=en|pmid=24455409|pmc=3886603|last3=Bulbeck|first3=David|last4=Raghavan|first4=Pathmanathan|doi=10.1155/2013/836738}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Individuals with Australo-Melanesian/Australoid [[phenotype]]s existed possibly also in southern East Asia at least since [[Middle Paleolithic]], such as [[Liujiang hominid|Liujiang]] but were largely displaced by migrations of [[Mongoloid]] [[rice]] [[farmer]]s since [[Neolithic]], who may have spread from Siberia or Central China to Southeastern Asia during Mesolithic and Neolithic and after adopting [[farming]] to the rest of Southeast Asia and Oceania.&lt;ref name=&quot;urlCraniometrics Reveal “Two Layers” of Prehistoric Human Dispersal in Eastern Eurasia&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |title=Craniometrics Reveal &quot;Two Layers&quot; of Prehistoric Human Dispersal in Eastern Eurasia |pmc = 6363732|year = 2019|last1 = Matsumura|first1 = H.|last2 = Hung|first2 = H. C.|last3 = Higham|first3 = C.|last4 = Zhang|first4 = C.|last5 = Yamagata|first5 = M.|last6 = Nguyen|first6 = L. C.|last7 = Li|first7 = Z.|last8 = Fan|first8 = X. C.|last9 = Simanjuntak|first9 = T.|last10 = Oktaviana|first10 = A. A.|last11 = He|first11 = J. N.|last12 = Chen|first12 = C. Y.|last13 = Pan|first13 = C. K.|last14 = He|first14 = G.|last15 = Sun|first15 = G. P.|last16 = Huang|first16 = W. J.|last17 = Li|first17 = X. W.|last18 = Wei|first18 = X. T.|last19 = Domett|first19 = K.|last20 = Halcrow|first20 = S.|last21 = Nguyen|first21 = K. D.|last22 = Trinh|first22 = H. H.|last23 = Bui|first23 = C. H.|last24 = Nguyen|first24 = K. T.|last25 = Reinecke|first25 = A.|journal = Scientific Reports|volume = 9|issue = 1|pages = 1451|pmid = 30723215|doi = 10.1038/s41598-018-35426-z}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;urlBioarchaeology of Southeast Asia - Google Books&quot;&gt;{{cite book |url=https://books.google.com/?id=RrM7jKx-HysC&amp;pg=PA36&amp;lpg=PA36&amp;dq=Hoabinhian+wajak#v=onepage&amp;q=Hoabinhian%20wajak&amp;f=false |title=Bioarchaeology of Southeast Asia - Google Books |format= |work= |accessdate=|isbn=9780521825801 |last1=Oxenham |first1=Marc |last2=Tayles |first2=Nancy |date=2006-04-20 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Physical features==<br /> {{see|Sinodonty and Sundadonty}}In physical anthropology, the Australo-Melanesian group is characterized primarily by its characteristic dental morphology.&lt;ref&gt;G. Richard Scott, Christy G. Turner II, Grant C. Townsend, María Martinón-Torres, &quot;The Anthropology of Modern Human Teeth: Dental Morphology and Its Variation in Recent and Fossil Homo Sapiens&quot;, Cambridge University Press (2018), p. 260.&lt;/ref&gt; In Java, &quot;Australo-Melanesian dentitions&quot; are found in fossils until the mid-Holocene (c. 5,000 years ago), but are replaced by modern &quot;Southern Mongoloid dentitions&quot; (Sundadonty) in the Neolithic, suggesting the displacement and assimilation of the aboriginal Australo-Melanesian population by the [[Austronesian expansion]].&lt;ref&gt;S. Noerwidi, &quot;Using Dental Metrical Analysis to Determine the Terminal Pleistocene and Holocene Population History of Java&quot;, in: Philip J. Piper, Hirofumi Matsumura, David Bulbeck (eds.), New Perspectives in Southeast Asian and Pacific Prehistory (2017), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=CDDFDgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA92 p. 92].&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetics==<br /> {{see|Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia|Genetic history of Southeast Asia}}<br /> Numerous studies of [[archaeogenetics]] performed during 2009&amp;ndash;2016 have suggested that Eurasian populations can be derived from an early division of the [[non-Africans (genetic lineage)|non-African]] lineage into an eastern and a western clade lineage before around 40,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;&quot;The former [eastern clade] includes present-day East Asians and had differentiated as early as the ∼40 kya Tianyuan individual (Fu et al. 2013), while early members of the latter [western clade] include ancient European hunter-gatherers (Lazaridis et al. 2014; Seguin-Orlando et al. 2014; Fu et al. 2016) and the ancient northern Eurasian [[Mal'ta boy|Mal'ta 1]] (MA1, a ∼24 kya Upper Paleolithic individual from south-central Siberia) (Raghavan et al. 2014). More recent (Neolithic and later) western Eurasians, such as Europeans, are mostly descended from the western clade but with an additional component of “[[Basal Eurasian]]” ancestry (via the Near East) splitting more deeply than any other known non-African lineage (Lazaridis et al. 2014, 2016). The timing of the eastern/western split is uncertain, but several papers (Gutenkunst et al. 2009; Laval et al. 2010; Gravel et al. 2011) have used present-day European and East Asian populations to infer dates of initial separation of 40–45 kya (adjusted for a mutation rate of 0.5 × 10−9 per year; Scally 2016).&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> It has been argued, however, that this model of a primary split between eastern and western Eurasians is invalid for Oceania and Southeast Asia.&lt;ref&gt;Rasmussen, M., et al., &quot;An Aboriginal Australian genome reveals separate human dispersals into Asia&quot;, ''Science'' 334(6052) (2011), 94-98, {{DOI|10.1126/science.1211177}}. &quot;We show that Aboriginal Australians are descendants of an early human dispersal into eastern Asia, possibly 62,000 to 75,000 years ago. This dispersal is separate from the one that gave rise to modern Asians 25,000 to 38,000 years ago.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; The so-called &quot;southern-route hypothesis&quot; derives an Australasian lineage, comprising Australians, New Guineans, and possibly Southeast Asian Negritos, from an early out-of-Africa dispersal, forming an ancestral lineage which split off the other non-African lineages prior to the Eastern Eurasian vs. Western Eurasian split.&lt;ref name=&quot;LipsonReich2017&quot;&gt;Mark Lipson and David Reich, &quot;A Working Model of the Deep Relationships of Diverse Modern Human Genetic Lineages Outside of Africa&quot;, ''Mol Biol Evol'' 34.4 (2017), 889–902, {{DOI|10.1093/molbev/msw293}}.&lt;/ref&gt; A number of 2016 studies have presented a refined model of Australasian ancestry.&lt;ref&gt;Mondal M, Casals F, Xu T, Dall'Olio GM, Pybus M, Netea MG, Comas D, Laayouni H, Li Q, Majumder PP., et al. 2016. &quot;Genomic analysis of Andamanese provides insights into ancient human migration into Asia and adaptation&quot;, Nat Genet. 48(9): 1066–1070.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Mallick S, Li H, Lipson M, Mathieson I, Gymrek M, Racimo F, Zhao M, Chennagiri N, Nordenfelt S, Tandon A., et al. 2016. &quot;The Simons Genome Diversity Project: 300 genomes from 142 diverse populations&quot;, Nature 538(7624): 201–206.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Malaspinas AS, Westaway MC, Muller C, Sousa VC, Lao O, Alves I, Bergström A, Athanasiadis G, Cheng JY, Crawford JE., et al. 2016. &quot;A genomic history of Aboriginal Australia&quot;, Nature 538(7624): 207–214.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Pagani L, Lawson DJ, Jagoda E, Mörseburg A, Eriksson A, Mitt M, Clemente F, Hudjashov G, DeGiorgio M, Saag L., et al. 2016. &quot;Genomic analyses inform on migration events during the peopling of Eurasia&quot;, Nature 538(7624): 238–242.&lt;/ref&gt;Reviewing the evidence, Lipson and Reich (2017) present as best-fitting model a derivation of the Australasian clade from the Eastern Eurasian clade at an early time, with substantial [[Denisovan admixture]] (of the order of 4%) before the Australasian clade split into the Australian and the New Guinean lineages.&lt;ref name=&quot;LipsonReich2017&quot; /&gt; More recently, Matsumura et al. 2019 found contradicting evidence. According to his study, Australo-Melanesians formed from independent lineages, not related to Eastern Eurasians, and supports a “two-layer” origin for Southeast Asia and Oceania.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Reinecke|first=Andreas|last2=Nguyen|first2=Khanh Trung Kien|last3=Bui|first3=Chi Hoang|last4=Trinh|first4=Hoang Hiep|last5=Yamagata|first5=Mariko|last6=Nguyen|first6=Kim Dung|last7=Halcrow|first7=Siân|last8=Domett|first8=Kate|last9=Wei|first9=Xing-tao|date=2019-02-05|title=Craniometrics Reveal “Two Layers” of Prehistoric Human Dispersal in Eastern Eurasia|url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35426-z|journal=Scientific Reports|language=en|volume=9|issue=1|pages=1–12|doi=10.1038/s41598-018-35426-z|issn=2045-2322}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:PCA of Orang Asli and Andamanese with world populations in HGDP.png|thumb|left|Principal Component analysis of Australo-Melanesians with world populations, (Aghakhanian et al. 2015).]]<br /> <br /> Pugach et al. (2013) find an ancestral association between Aboriginal Australians, New Guineans and the Mamanwa Negritos, with an estimated divergence time of at least 35,000 years, in support of the &quot;southern migration route&quot; scenario. In addition, the study finds evidence of gene flow between India and Australia at a later time, an estimated 141 generations ago (i.e. roughly 3,000 to 4,000 years ago), suggesting a possible late migration wave to Australia.&lt;ref&gt;Irina Pugach, Frederick Delfin, Ellen Gunnarsdóttir, Manfred Kayser, and Mark Stoneking, &quot;Genome-wide data substantiate Holocene gene flow from India to Australia&quot;, PNAS January 29, 2013 110 (5) 1803-1808;{{DOI|10.1073/pnas.1211927110}}.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:Early stages of the Austronesian diaspora showing best-fit genomic proportions of Austronesian-speaking peoples in ISEA and their inferred population movements.png |thumb|right|Best-fit genomic mixture proportions of [[Austronesians]] in [[Island Southeast Asia]] and their inferred population movements, showing rates of admixture with pre-existing Australo-Melanesian populations&lt;ref name=&quot;Lipson2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Lipson |first1=Mark |last2=Loh |first2=Po-Ru |last3=Patterson |first3=Nick |last4=Moorjani |first4=Priya |last5=Ko |first5=Ying-Chin |last6=Stoneking |first6=Mark |last7=Berger |first7=Bonnie |last8=Reich |first8=David |date=2014 |title=Reconstructing Austronesian population history in Island Southeast Asia|url= https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2014/05/27/005603.full.pdf |journal=Nature Communications |volume=5 |issue=1 |pages=4689 |doi=10.1038/ncomms5689 |pmc=4143916 |pmid=25137359}}&lt;/ref&gt;]]<br /> <br /> For Australo-Melanesian populations within [[Austronesia]] (the [[Negrito]]s, [[Papuans]], and [[Orang Asli]]), they underwent fairly extensive population admixture with the incoming [[Austronesian peoples|Austronesian]] migrants.&lt;ref name=&quot;Lipson2014&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|year=2006|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|pmc=1513393|pmid=16707019}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The term &quot;Australioid race&quot; was introduced by [[Thomas Huxley]] in 1870 to refer to certain peoples indigenous to [[South Asia|South]] and [[Southeast Asia]] and [[Oceania]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last1=Pearson|first1=Roger|title=Anthropological Glossary|date=1985|publisher=Krieger Publishing Company|pages=20, 128, 267|url=https://www.google.com/books?id=HjANAAAAYAAJ|accessdate=2 February 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt; <br /> <br /> Terms associated with outdated notions of racial types, such as those ending in &quot;-oid&quot; have come to be seen as potentially offensive&lt;ref name=&quot;Black2011&quot;&gt;{{cite book|last1=Black|first1=Sue|last2=Ferguson|first2=Eilidh|title=Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010|date=2011|publisher=Taylor and Francis Group|page=127|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127|accessdate=3 July 2018|isbn=9781439845899}} &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group (&quot;Negroid&quot;), the European group (&quot;Caucasoid&quot;), the Central Asian group (&quot;Mongoloid&quot;), and the Australasian group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; and related to [[scientific racism]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Fluehr-Lobban2011&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Fluehr-Lobban |first=C. |title=Race and racism : an Introduction |publisher=Lanham : Rowman &amp; Littlefield |date=2005 |pages=131–133 |url= https://books.google.it/books?id=3lq3XDz39pIC&amp;pg=PA132&amp;lpg=PA131|isbn=9780759107953 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford&quot;&gt;{{cite web| title = Ask Oxford – Definition of Australoid| publisher = [[Oxford Dictionary of English]]|year=2018| url = https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/australoid| accessdate = 2018-06-28}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> == Possible early presence in the Americas ==<br /> {{main|Pleistocene peopling of the Americas}}<br /> {{see also|Genetic history of indigenous peoples of the Americas#Paleoamericans|Fuegians|Pericúes}}<br /> [[File:Lapa Vermelha IV Hominid 1-Homo Sapiens 11,500 Years Old.jpg|thumb|A cast of the [[Luzia Woman]]'s skull]]<br /> <br /> A speculative theory of [[Walter Neves]] in the 1990s proposes that an early Australoid population may have been the earliest occupants of the New World. The theory was based on an analysis of the [[Luzia Woman]] fossil found in Brazil, and found tentative academic support.&lt;ref&gt;[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19960408/ai_n14052462 ''Ancient voyage of discovery'', Independent, The (London), Apr 8, 1996 by David Keys]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> If this hypothesis is correct, it would mean that some Australoid groups continued the [[Great Coastal Migration]] beyond [[Southeast Asia]], along the continental shelf north in [[East Asia]] and across the [[Beringia|Bering land bridge]], reaching the [[Americas]] by about 50,000 years ago.{{citation needed|date=June 2018}}<br /> <br /> === Australasian genetic evidence in Native Americans ===<br /> In 2015, two major studies{{citation needed|date=May 2018}} of the DNA of living and ancient people detect in modern Native Americans a trace of DNA related to that of native people from [[Australia]] and [[Melanesia]]. Australasian admixture in some living Native Americans, including those of the [[Aleutian Islands]] and the [[Paiter|Surui people]] of Amazonian Brazil. Evidence of Australasian admixture in Amazonian populations was found by Skoglund and Reich (2016).&lt;ref name=&quot;Skoglund2016&quot;&gt;P. Skoglund, D. Reich, &quot;A genomic view of the peopling of the Americas&quot;, ''Curr Opin Genet Dev.'' 2016 Dec; 41: 27–35, {{doi|10.1016/j.gde.2016.06.016}}. &quot;Recently, we carried out a stringent test of the null hypothesis of a single founding population of Central and South Americans using genome-wide data from diverse Native Americans. We detected a statistically clear signal linking Native Americans in the Amazonian region of Brazil to present-day Australo-Melanesians and Andaman Islanders (‘Australasians'). Specifically, we found that Australasians share significantly more genetic variants with some Amazonian populations—including ones speaking Tupi languages—than they do with other Native Americans. We called this putative ancient Native American lineage “Population Y” after Ypykuéra, which means ‘ancestor' in the Tupi language family.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Walter Neves and Mark Hubbe argue that these people descended from an early wave of migration that was separate from the one that gave rise to today's Native Americans, and drew on a different source population in Asia.&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2015/07/mysterious-link-emerges-between-native-americans-and-people-half-globe-away Mysterious link emerges between Native Americans and people half a globe away] by Michael Balter published in the &quot;American Association for the Advancement of Science&quot; on July 21, 2015&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Australasian morphology in Native Americans ===<br /> [[Christy G. Turner II|Christy Turner]] states that &quot;cranial analyses of some South American crania have suggested that there might have been some early migration of &quot;Australoids.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'|last=Turner|first=Christy|publisher=University of California Press|year=2002|isbn=978-0-940228-50-4|page=138|chapter=Teeth, Needles, Dogs and Siberia: Bioarchaeological Evidence for the Colonization of the New World|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=RI32r548fUwC}}&lt;/ref&gt; <br /> However, Turner argues that cranial morphology suggests [[Sinodonty and Sundadonty|sinodonty]], a dental pattern seen in people from eastern and northern Asia in the Native American populations she has studied.<br /> <br /> One of the earliest skulls discovered in the Americas by archaeologists is an Upper Paleolithic specimen named the [[Luzia Woman]] in 1974 by archaeologist Annette Laming-Emperaire. Anthropologists variously described Luzia's features as resembling those of Negroids, Indigenous Australians, Melanesians and the Negritos of Southeast Asia. Walter Neves, an anthropologist at the University of São Paulo, suggested that Luzia's features most strongly resembled those of Australian Aboriginal peoples. Richard Neave of Manchester University, who undertook a forensic facial reconstruction of Luzia, described it as negroid.&lt;ref&gt;https://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/26/science/an-ancient-skull-challenges-long-held-theories.html&lt;/ref&gt; According to [[Walter Neves]] a Brazilian anthropologist, archaeologist and biologist from the University of São Paulo ( Luzia's [[Paleo-Indians|Paleo-Indian]] predecessors lived in South East Asia for tens of thousands of years, after [[human migration|migrating]] from [[Africa]], and began arriving in the [[New World]], as early as 15,000 years ago. Some anthropologists have hypothesized that Paleo-Indians migrated along the coast of [[East Asia]] and [[Beringia]] in small watercraft, before or during the LGM. Neves' conclusions have been challenged researchers who argued that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AVJyLBsGC0mKZGZucHhrNTRfMTRjd20zbnBkOQ&amp;hl=en|title=THE KENNEWICK FOLLIES: &quot;New&quot; Theories about the Peopling of the Americas|author=Stuart J. Fiedel|year=2004|accessdate=2008-02-15}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In November 2018, scientists of the [[University of São Paulo]] and [[Harvard University]] released a study that contradicts the alleged Australo-Melanesian origin of Luzia. The results showed that Luzia was entirely Amerindian, genetically.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news|url=https://g1.globo.com/ciencia-e-saude/noticia/2018/11/08/estudo-contradiz-teoria-de-povoamento-da-america-e-sugere-que-rosto-de-luzia-era-diferente-do-que-se-pensava.ghtml|title=Estudo contradiz teoria de povoamento da América e sugere que rosto de Luzia era diferente do que se pensava (Research contradicts the theory of the occupation of the Americas and suggests that the Luzia's face was different from what was previously thought)|author=César Menezes|date=8 Nov 2018|accessdate=2018-11-09|publisher=G1|language=pt-br}}&lt;/ref&gt; It was published in the journal Cell article (November 8, 2018)&lt;ref&gt;https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(18)31380-1&lt;/ref&gt;, a paper in the journal Science from an affiliated team also reported new findings on fossil DNA from the first migrants to the Americas.&lt;ref&gt;https://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6419/eaav2621.abstract&lt;/ref&gt; Using [[DNA sequencing]], the results showed that Lagoa Santa remains from a site nearby to the Luzia remains carry DNA regarded as Native American. Two of the Lagoa Santa individuals carry the same mtDNA haplogroup (D4h3a) also carried by older 12,000+ remains [[Anzick-1]] found in Montana and three of the Lagoa Santa individuals harbor the same Y chromosome haplogroup Q-M848 as found in the Spirit Cave genome of Nevada. The bust of Luzia displaying Australo-Melanesian/African features was created in 1999. André Strauss of the Max Planck Institute, one of the authors of the Journal Science article remarked &quot;However, skull shape isn't a reliable marker of ancestrality or geographic origin. Genetics is the best basis for this type of inference,&quot; Strauss explained.&quot;The genetic results of the new study show categorically that there was no significant connection between the Lagoa Santa people and groups from Africa or Australia. So the hypothesis that Luzia's people derived from a migratory wave prior to the ancestors of today's Amerindians has been disproved. On the contrary, the DNA shows that Luzia's people were entirely Amerindian.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-11/fda-tnf110918.php&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> *[[Austronesian peoples]]<br /> *[[Melanesians]]<br /> *[[Negrito]]<br /> *[[Andamanese]]<br /> *[[Aboriginal Australians]]<br /> *[[Papuans]]<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{reflist|30em}}<br /> <br /> {{Human genetics}}<br /> {{Historical definitions of race}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of Oceania]]<br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of Southeast Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Historical definitions of race]]<br /> [[Category:Biological anthropology]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_peoples&diff=945420769 Andamanese peoples 2020-03-13T21:19:58Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Genomic */ See talk page</p> <hr /> <div>{{other uses}}<br /> {{short description|People of Andaman archipelago}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=December 2019}}<br /> [[Image:Great Andamanese - two men - 1875.jpg|thumb|right|Two Great Andamanese men, ''circa'' 1875]]<br /> The '''Andamanese''' are the various [[indigenous peoples]] of the [[Andaman Islands]], part of [[India]]'s [[Andaman and Nicobar Islands]] [[union territory]] in the southeastern part of the [[Bay of Bengal]] in [[Southeast Asia]]. The Andamanese peoples are among the various groups considered [[Negrito]], owing to their dark skin and diminutive stature. All Andamanese traditionally lived a [[hunter-gatherer]] lifestyle, and appear to have lived in substantial isolation for thousands of years.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.livemint.com/Leisure/tIsiO3lUJFbVtlo39lIfIP/Getting-to-know-the-Andamanese.html|title=Getting to know the Andamanese|first=Tony|last=Joseph|date=22 December 2018|website=www.livemint.com}}&lt;/ref&gt; It is suggested that the Andamanese settled in the Andaman Islands around the [[Last glacial period|latest glacial maximum]], around 26,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Mondal|first=Mayukh|last2=Bergström|first2=Anders|last3=Xue|first3=Yali|last4=Calafell|first4=Francesc|last5=Laayouni|first5=Hafid|last6=Casals|first6=Ferran|last7=Majumder|first7=Partha P.|last8=Tyler-Smith|first8=Chris|last9=Bertranpetit|first9=Jaume|date=2017-05-01|title=Y-chromosomal sequences of diverse Indian populations and the ancestry of the Andamanese|journal=Human Genetics|language=en|volume=136|issue=5|pages=499–510|doi=10.1007/s00439-017-1800-0|pmid=28444560|issn=1432-1203|quote=In contrast, the Riang (Tibeto-Burman-speaking) and Andamanese have their nearest neighbour lineages in East Asia. The Jarawa and Onge shared haplogroup D lineages with each other within the last ~7000 years, but had diverged from Japanese haplogroup D Y-chromosomes ~53000 years ago, most likely by a split from a shared ancestral population.|hdl=10230/34399}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322207974|title=East Asian ancestry in India|last=Chaubey|date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The Andamanese peoples included the [[Great Andamanese]] and [[Jarawas (Andaman Islands)|Jarawas]] of the [[Great Andaman]] archipelago, the [[Jangil]] of Rutland Island, the [[Onge]] of [[Little Andaman]], and the [[Sentinelese]] of [[North Sentinel Island]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/when-british-toyed-with-idea-to-unleash-gurkhas-on-sentinelese/articleshow/66802882.cms|title=Sentinel island: When British toyed with idea to unleash Gurkhas on Sentinelese|website=The Times of India}}&lt;/ref&gt; At the end of the 18th century, when they first came into sustained contact with outsiders, an estimated 7,000 Andamanese remained. In the next century, they were largely wiped out by diseases, violence, and loss of territory. Today, only roughly 400–450 Andamanese remain, with the Jangil being extinct. Only the Jarawa and the Sentinelese maintain a steadfast independence, refusing most attempts at contact by outsiders.<br /> <br /> The Andamanese are a designated [[Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes|Scheduled Tribe]] in India's constitution.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/ST%20Lists.pdf |page=27 |title=List of notified Scheduled Tribes |publisher=Census India |accessdate=15 December 2013 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131107225208/http://censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/ST%20Lists.pdf |archivedate=7 November 2013 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> <br /> Until the late 18th century, the Andamanese culture, language, and genetics were preserved from outside influences by their fierce reaction to visitors, which included killing any shipwrecked foreigners, and by the remoteness of the islands. The various tribes and their mutually unintelligible languages thus are believed to have evolved on their own over millennia.<br /> <br /> ===Origins===<br /> [[Image:World map of prehistoric human migrations.jpg|400px|right|thumb|Map of human haplotype migration based on [[mitochondrial DNA]], with Key (coloured) indicating periods in numbered thousands of years before the present. Note the route of the mtDNA haplogroup M through the Indian mainland and the Andaman Islands, possibly on to Southeast Asia]]<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey and Endicott (2013), the Andaman Islands were settled less than 26,000 years ago, by people who were not direct descendants of the first migrants out of Africa.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal | doi=10.3378/027.085.0307| pmid=24297224| title=The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia| journal=Human Biology| volume=85| issue=1–3| pages=153–172| year=2013| last1=Chaubey| first1=Gyaneshwer| last2=Endicott| first2=Phillip| url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|Chaubey and Endicott (2013):&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;&lt;br&gt;* &quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled less than ~26 ka and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)&lt;br&gt;* &quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)}} According to Wang et al. (2011),<br /> {{quote|...the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&lt;ref name=&quot;Wang2011&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|title = Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic|journal = Journal of Genetics and Genomics|date = 20 March 2011|pages = 117–122|volume = 38|issue = 3|doi = 10.1016/j.jgg.2011.02.005|pmid = 21477783|first = Hua-Wei|last = Wang|first2 = Bikash|last2 = Mitra|first3 = Tapas Kumar|last3 = Chaudhuri|first4 = Malliya gounder|last4 = Palanichamy|first5 = Qing-Peng|last5 = Kong|first6 = Ya-Ping|last6 = Zhang}}&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> <br /> It was previously assumed that the Andaman ancestors were part of the initial [[Great Coastal Migration]] that was the first expansion of humanity out of Africa, via the Arabian peninsula, along the coastal regions of the Indian mainland and toward [[Southeast Asia]], [[China]], and [[Oceania]].&lt;ref name=&quot;wells2002&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | author=Spencer Wells | year=2002 | publisher=Princeton University Press | isbn=978-0-691-11532-0 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=WAsKm-_zu5sC | quote=... the population of south-east Asia prior to 6000 years ago was composed largely of groups of hunter-gatherers very similar to modern Negritos ... So, both the Y-chromosome and the mtDNA paint a clear picture of a coastal leap from Africa to south-east Asia, and onward to Australia ... DNA has given us a glimpse of the voyage, which almost certainly followed a coastal route va India ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;abbi2006&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=Endangered Languages of the Andaman Islands | author=Anvita Abbi | year=2006 | publisher=Lincom Europa | url=https://books.google.com/?id=VWVkAAAAMAAJ | quote=... to Myanmar by a land bridge during the ice ages, and it is possible that the ancestors of the Andamanese reached the islands without crossing the sea ... The latest figure in 2005 is 50 in all ...| author-link=Anvita Abbi }}&lt;/ref&gt; The Andamanese were considered to be a pristine example of a hypothesized [[Negrito]] population, which showed similar physical characteristics, and was supposed to have existed throughout southeast Asia. The existence of a specific Negrito-population is nowadays doubted. Their commonalities could be the result of evolutionary convergence and/or a shared history.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|title = Admixture Patterns and Genetic Differentiation in Negrito Groups from West Malaysia Estimated from Genome-wide SNP Data|journal = Human Biology|date = 1 June 2013|issn = 0018-7143|pages = 173–188|volume = 85|issue = 1–3|doi = 10.3378/027.085.0308|first = Timothy A.|last = Jinam|first2 = Maude E.|last2 = Phipps|first3 = Naruya|last3 = Saitou|pmid=24297225|url = https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/8}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|title = The Skeletal Phenotype of &quot;Negritos&quot; from the Andaman Islands and Philippines Relative to Global Variation among Hunter-Gatherers|url = https://muse.jhu.edu/journals/human_biology/v085/85.1-3.stock.html|journal = Human Biology|date = 1 January 2013|issn = 1534-6617|pages = 67–94|volume = 85|issue = 1|first = Jay T.|last = Stock|doi=10.3378/027.085.0304|pmid=24297221}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Bulbeck (2013) shows the Andamanese maternal mtDNA is entirely [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|mitochondrial Haplogroup M]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Bulbeck&quot;/&gt; Their Y-DNA belong to the D haplogroup which has not been seen outside of the Andamans, a fact that underscores the insularity of these tribes. Analysis of mtDNA, which is inherited exclusively by maternal descent, confirms the above results. All Onge belong to tmDNA M, which is unique to Onge people. mtDNA M which is descentdant of Africa's [[Macro-haplogroup L (mtDNA)]] represents the entire lineage of the Onge, Adamanese, Onge and predominantly in Malaysia Negrito Semangs. M is the single most common mtDNA haplogroup in Asia.[[Super-Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|subgroup of M]] is distributed in the [[Asia]], where it represents 60% of all maternal lineages.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | last1 = Ghezzi | display-authors = etal | year = 2005 | title = Mitochondrial DNA haplogroup K is associated with a lower risk of Parkinson's disease in Italians | journal = European Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 13 | issue = 6| pages = 748–752 | doi=10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201425 | pmid=15827561}}&lt;/ref&gt;[[Super-Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|subgroup of M]] is distributed in the [[Asia]], where it represents 60% of all maternal lineages.&lt;ref name=&quot;petraglia2007&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The evolution and history of human populations in South Asia |author1=Michael D. Petraglia |author2=Bridget Allchin | publisher=Springer | year=2007 | isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC | quote=... As haplogroup M, except for the African sub-clade M1, is not notably present in regions west of the Indian subcontinent, while it covers the majority of Indian mtDNA variation ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2017 study by Mondal et al. finds that the [[Tripuri people|Riang]] lineage of D1a3 (a Tibeto-Burmese population) and the Andamanese D1a3 have their nearest related lineages in [[East Asia]]. The Jarawa and Onge shared this D1a3 lineages with each other within the last ~7000 years, but had diverged from the Japanese D1a2 lineage ~53000 years ago&quot;. They further suggest that: “This strongly suggests that haplogroup D does not indicate a separate ancestry for Andamanese populations. Rather, haplogroup D was part of the standing variation carried by the OOA expansion, and later lost from most of the populations except in Andaman and partially in Japan and Tibet”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot; /&gt;.<br /> <br /> ===Population decline===<br /> [[Image:Govt of India - Assam Valley Incident Report.png|left|thumb|200px|An official 1867 British government communication about organizing a punitive expedition against Andamanese tribespeople on [[Little Andaman Island]]]]<br /> The Andamanese's protective isolation changed with the first British colonial presence and subsequent settlements, which proved disastrous for them. Lacking immunity against common [[Infection|infectious diseases]] of the Eurasian mainland, the large Jarawa habitats on the southeastern regions of South Andaman Island likely were depopulated by disease within four years (1789–1793) of the initial British colonial settlement in 1789.&lt;ref name=&quot;venkateswar2004&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=Development and Ethnocide: Colonial Practices in the Andaman Islands | author=Sita Venkateswar | publisher=IWGIA | year=2004 | isbn=978-87-91563-04-1 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=XFETVExNUYgC | quote=&quot;As I have suggested previously, it is probable that some disease was introduced among the coastal groups by Lieutenant Colebrooke and Blair's first settlement in 1789, resulting in a marked reduction of their population. The four years that the British occupied their initial site on the south-east of South Andaman were sufficient to have decimated the coastal populations of the groups referred to as Jarawa by the Aka-bea-da.&quot;}}&lt;/ref&gt; Epidemics of [[pneumonia]], measles and [[influenza]] spread rapidly and exacted heavy tolls, as did alcoholism.&lt;ref name=&quot;venkateswar2004&quot; /&gt; In the 19th century, the [[measles]] killed 50% of the Andamanese population.&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4987406.stm Measles hits rare Andaman tribe] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110823054811/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4987406.stm |date=23 August 2011 }}. ''BBC News''. 16 May 2006.&lt;/ref&gt; By 1875, the Andamanese were already &quot;perilously close to extinction,&quot; yet attempts to contact, subdue and co-opt them continued unrelentingly. In 1888, the British government set in place a policy of &quot;organized gift giving&quot; that continued in varying forms until well into the 20th century.&lt;ref name=&quot;lee1999&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Hunters and Gatherers |author1=Richard B. Lee |author2=Richard Heywood Daly | publisher=Cambridge University Press | year=1999 | isbn=978-0-521-57109-8 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=5eEASHGLg3MC | quote=&quot;By 1875, when these peoples were perilously close to extinction, the Andaman cultures came under scientific scrutiny ... In 1888, 'friendly relations' were established with Ongees through organized gift giving contacts ... As recently as 1985—92, government contacts have been initiated with Jarawas and Sentinelese through gift-giving, a contact procedure much like that carried out during British rule.&quot;}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[File:Great Andamanese women - 1876.jpg|thumb|Great Andamanese men, women and children, 1876]]<br /> There is evidence that some sections of the British Indian administration were working deliberately to annihilate the tribes.&lt;ref name=&quot;cavalli-sforza1995&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The Great Human Diasporas: The History of Diversity and Evolution |author1=Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza |author2=Francesco Cavalli-Sforza | publisher=Basic Books | year=1995 | isbn=978-0-201-44231-1 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=ApuuiwUkEZ0C | quote=Contact with whites, and the British in particular, has virtually destroyed them. Illness, alcohol, and the will of the colonials all played their part; the British governor of the time mentions in his diary that he received instructions to destroy them with alcohol and opium. He succeeded completely with one group. The others reacted violently.}}&lt;/ref&gt; After the mid-19th century, [[British Raj|British]] established [[penal colony|penal colonies]] on the islands and an increasing numbers of mainland Indian and [[Karen people|Karen]] settlers arrived, encroaching on former territories of the Andamanese. This accelerated the decline of the tribes.<br /> <br /> Many Andamanese succumbed to British expeditions to avenge the killing of shipwrecked sailors. In the 1867 [[Andaman Islands Expedition]], dozens of Onge were killed by British naval personnel following the death of shipwrecked sailors, which resulted in four [[Victoria Cross]]es for the British soldiers.&lt;ref name=&quot;mukerjee2003&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The Land of Naked People | author=Madhusree Mukerjee | publisher=Houghton Mifflin Books | year=2003 | isbn=978-0-618-19736-1 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=u6373dOvGFgC | quote=&quot;In 1927 Egon Freiherr von Eickstedt, a German anthropologist, found that around 100 Great Andamanese survived, 'in dirty, half-closed huts, which primarily contain cheap European household effects'.&quot;}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=londongazette1867&gt;{{London Gazette |issue=23333 |date=17 December 1867 |page=6878 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;mathur1985&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=Kala Pani: History of Andaman &amp; Nicobar Islands, with a Study of Indiaʼs Freedom Struggle |author=Laxman Prasad Mathur | publisher=Eastern Book Corporation | year=2003 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=UQ9uAAAAMAAJ | quote=Snippet: &quot;Immediately afterwards in another visit to Little Andaman to trace the sailors of a ship named 'Assam Valley' wrecked on its coast, Homfray's party was attacked by a large group of Onges.&quot;}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In 1923, the British ornithologist and anthropologist [[Frank Finn]], who visited the islands in the 1890s, while working for the [[Indian Museum, Kolkata|Indian Museum]], described the Andamanese as &quot;The World's Most Primitive People&quot;, writing:&lt;ref name=&quot;Finn&quot;&gt;{{cite magazine |title=The World's Most Primitive People |first1=Frank |last1=Finn |authorlink1=Frank Finn |magazine=[[Radio Times|The Radio Times]] |date=26 October 1923|title-link=:s:Radio Times/1923/10/26/The World's Most Primitive People }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {{quote|I used to envy the pigmies their simple costume, which in the case of the ladies was a wisp and a waistband, and in that of the men, nothing at all. Their interests are looked after by an English Civil Servant, who has to see that no one sells them drink, or interferes with them in any way; but even this officer-in-charge, as he is styled, dares not go among them where he is not known, and considerable tact is required in getting an introduction to the local chief.}}<br /> <br /> In the 1940s, the Jarawa were bombed by [[Imperial Japanese Army|imperial Japanese forces]] for their hostility. This attack of the Japanese was criticized as war crime by many observers.&lt;ref name=&quot;vanDriem2001&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Recent history===<br /> In 1974, a film crew and anthropologist [[Triloknath Pandit]] attempted friendly contact by leaving a tethered pig, some pots and pans, some fruit, and toys on the beach at North Sentinel Island. One of the islanders shot the film director in the thigh with an arrow. The following year, European visitors were repulsed with arrows.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|title = The Last Island of the Savages|last = Goodheart|first = Adam|date = Autumn 2000|journal = The American Scholar|volume = 69|issue = 4|pages = 13–44|jstor=41213066}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.amazon.com/dp/8170460816 Pandit]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;McGirk&quot;&gt;{{cite news | url = https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/islanders-running-out-of-isolation-tim-mcgirk-in-the-andaman-islands-reports-on-the-fate-of-the-sentinelese-1477566.html | location=London | work=[[The Independent]] | title=Islanders running out of isolation: Tim McGirk in the Andaman Islands reports on the fate of the Sentinelese | date=10 January 1993}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> On 2 August 1981, the Hong Kong freighter ship ''Primrose'' grounded on the North Sentinel Island reef. A few days later, crewmen on the immobile vessel observed that small black men were carrying spears and arrows and building boats on the beach. The captain of the Primrose radioed for an urgent airdrop of firearms so the crew could defend themselves, but did not receive them. Heavy seas kept the islanders away from the ship. After a week, the crew were rescued by an Indian navy helicopter.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.neatorama.com/2013/07/08/The-Forbidden-Island/|title=Grounding|work=neatorama.com}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> On 4 January 1991, Triloknath Pandit made the first known friendly contact with the Sentinelese.&lt;ref name=&quot;McGirk&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Until 1996, the Jarawa met most visitors with flying arrows. From time to time, they attacked and killed poachers on the lands reserved to them by the Indian government. They also killed some workers building the [[Andaman Trunk Road]] (ATR), which traverses Jarawa lands. One of the earliest peaceful contacts with the Jarawa occurred in 1996. Settlers found a teenaged Jarawa boy named Enmei near Kadamtala town. The boy was immobilized with a broken foot. They took Enmei to a hospital, where he received good care. Over several weeks, Enmei learned a few words of Hindi before returning to his jungle home. The following year, Jarawa individuals and small groups began appearing along roadsides and occasionally venturing into settlements to steal food. The ATR may have interfered with traditional Jarawa food sources.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|last1=Seksharia|first1=Pankaj|title=Jarawa excursions|url=http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl1514/15140660.htm|website=frontline.in|publisher=Front Line|accessdate=30 May 2015}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|last1=Valley|first1=Paul|title=Under threat: an ancient tribe emerging from the forests|url=http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/ilat/2003-December/000546.html|website=listserv.linguist.org|publisher=The Independent UK|accessdate=30 May 2015}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|last1=Grig|first1=Sophie|title=Remote Jarawa tribe kill poacher – exclusive interview shows Jarawa denouncing poaching on their land|url=http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/3950%20Survival|website=survivalinternational.org|publisher=Survival International|accessdate=30 May 2015}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> On 17 November 2018, a [[United States]] [[missionary]], John Allen Chau, was killed when he tried to introduce [[Christianity]] to the [[Sentinelese]] tribe. The Sentinelese have been protected from contact with the outside world. Trips to the Island are prohibited by [[India]]n law.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/john-allen-chau-us-missionary-north-sentinel-killed-latest-india-a8659021.html|title=US man killed on remote island prepared for years for mission and 'may not have acted alone'|date=29 November 2018|website=The Independent|language=en|access-date=7 December 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt; Chau was brought near the island by local fishermen, who were later arrested during the investigation into his death.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://scroll.in/latest/904603/american-missionary-killed-by-sentinelese-was-on-a-planned-adventure-says-scheduled-tribes-panel|title=American missionary killed by Sentinelese was on a 'planned adventure', says scheduled tribes panel|last=Staff|first=Scroll|website=Scroll.in|language=en-US|access-date=7 December 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt; Indian authorities attempted to retrieve Chau's remains without success.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite news|url=https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/john-chaus-death-roils-the-missionary-world|title=John Chau's Death on North Sentinel Island Roils the Missionary World|last=Griswold|first=Eliza|date=8 December 2018|work=The New Yorker|access-date=11 December 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Tribes==<br /> [[Image:Andamanese comparative distribution.png|thumb|right|400px|Distribution of Andamanese tribes in the [[Andaman Islands]] — early 1800s versus present-day (2004).]]<br /> The five major groups of Andamanese are:<br /> <br /> * [[Great Andamanese]], traditionally of the [[Great Andaman]] archipelago but now living on [[Strait Island]]. Their population was 52 as of 2010.&lt;ref name=telegraph&gt;[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/7161422/Language-lost-as-last-member-of-Andaman-tribe-dies.html &quot;Language lost as last member of Andaman tribe dies&quot;] (5 February 2010). ''The Daily Telegraph'', London. Accessed 3 January 2017.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> * [[Jarawa (Andaman Islands)|Jarawa]] traditionally of the southern part of [[South Andaman Island]] in the [[Great Andaman]] archipelago but now living in the ex-[[Great Andamanese]] homeland in the West Coast and central parts of [[South Andaman Island|South]] and [[Middle Andaman Island]]s. Their population was 380 as of 2011.&lt;ref name=&quot;censusindia.gov.in&quot;&gt;http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011census/PCA/SC_ST/PCA-A11_Appendix/ST-35-PCA-A11-APPENDIX.xlsx&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> * [[Jangil]] or Rutland Jarawa of [[Rutland Island]], extinct by 1921&lt;ref name=&quot;vanDriem2001&quot;/&gt;<br /> * [[Onge]] of [[Little Andaman]], at 101 individuals as of 2011.&lt;ref name=&quot;censusindia.gov.in&quot;/&gt;<br /> * [[Sentinelese]] of [[North Sentinel Island]], estimated to be 100 to 200 individuals.<br /> <br /> By the end of the eighteenth century, there were an estimated 5,000 Great Andamanese living on [[Great Andaman]]. Altogether they comprised ten distinct tribes with different languages. The population quickly dwindled to 600 in 1901 and to 19 by 1961.&lt;ref name=&quot;asi1990&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The Jarawa | author=Jayanta Sarkar | publisher=Anthropological Survey of India | year=1990 | isbn=978-81-7046-080-0 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=HxBuAAAAMAAJ | quote=The Great Andamanese population was large till 1858 when it started declining ... In 1901, their number was reduced to only 600 and in 1961 to a mere 19.}}&lt;/ref&gt; It has increased slowly after that, following their move to a reservation on [[Strait Island]]. As of 2010, the population was 52, representing a mix of the former tribes.&lt;ref name=telegraph/&gt;<br /> <br /> The Jarawa originally inhabited southeastern [[Jarawa (Andaman Islands)|Jarawa Island]] and have migrated to the west coast of Great Andaman in the wake of the Great Andamanese. The Onge once lived throughout [[Little Andaman]] and now are confined to two reservations on the island. The [[Jangil]], who originally inhabited [[Rutland Island]], were extinct by 1931; the last individual was sighted in 1907.&lt;ref name=&quot;vanDriem2001&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=Languages of the Himalayas: An Ethnolinguistic Handbook of the Greater Himalayan Region: Containing an Introduction to the Symbiotic Theory of Language | author=George van Driem | year=2001 | publisher=BRILL | isbn=978-90-04-12062-4 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=fiavPYCz4dYC | quote=''... The Aka-Kol tribe of Middle Andaman became extinct by 1921. The Oko-Juwoi of Middle Andaman and the Aka-Bea of South Andaman and Rutland Island were extinct by 1931. The Akar-Bale of Ritchie's Archipelago, the Aka-Kede of Middle Andaman and the A-Pucikwar of South Andaman Island soon followed. By 1951, the census counted a total of only 23 Greater Andamanese and 10 Sentinelese. That means that just ten men, twelve women and one child remained of the Aka-Kora, Aka-Cari and Aka-Jeru tribes of Greater Andaman and only ten natives of North Sentinel Island ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; Only the [[Sentinelese people|Sentinelese]] are still living in their original homeland on [[North Sentinel Island]], largely undisturbed, and have fiercely resisted all attempts at contact.<br /> <br /> == Languages ==<br /> {{main|Andamanese languages}}<br /> The [[Andamanese languages]] are considered to be the fifth language family of India, following the Indo-European, Dravidian, Austroasiatic, and Sino-Tibetan.&lt;ref name=&quot;:3&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Zide |first1=Norman |last2=Pandya |first2=Vishvajit |title=A Bibliographical Introduction to Andamanese Linguistics |journal=Journal of the American Oriental Society |date=1989 |volume=109 |issue=4 |pages=639–651 |doi=10.2307/604090 |jstor=604090}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> While some connections have been tentatively proposed with other language families,&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|title = A Long Lost Sister of Proto-Austronesian?: Proto-Ongan, Mother of Jarawa and Onge of the Andaman Islands.|last = Blevins|first = Juliette|date = 2007|journal = Oceanic Linguistics|doi = 10.1353/ol.2007.0015|volume=46|pages=154–198}}&lt;/ref&gt; the consensus view is currently that Andamanese languages form a separate language family – or rather, two unrelated linguistic families: ''Greater Andamanese''&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|title = A Grammar of the Great Andamanese Language : An Ethnolinguistic Study|url = http://eds.b.ebscohost.com/eds/ebookviewer/ebook/bmxlYmtfXzYzNTAyNF9fQU41?sid=184082ff-25b6-4cb0-94ec-18b6ab2a3056@sessionmgr114&amp;vid=3&amp;format=EB&amp;rid=1|website = eds.b.ebscohost.com|accessdate = 29 October 2015}}{{Dead link|date=September 2019 |bot=InternetArchiveBot |fix-attempted=yes }}&lt;/ref&gt; and ''Ongan''.<br /> <br /> ==Culture==<br /> [[File:Group of Andaman Men and Women in Costume, Some Wearing Body Paint And with Bows and Arrows, Catching Turtles from Boat on Water.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Group of Andamanese [[turtle hunting|hunting turtles]] with bows and arrows.]]<br /> Until contact, the Andamanese were strict [[hunter-gatherer]]s. They did not practice [[tillage|cultivation]], and lived off hunting indigenous pigs, fishing, and gathering. Their only weapons were the [[bow (weapon)|bow]], [[adze]]s, and wooden [[harpoon]]s. With the [[Aboriginal Tasmanian|aboriginal people of Tasmania]], the Andamanese were one of only two peoples who in the nineteenth century knew of no method for [[firelighting|making fire]].&lt;ref name =&quot;Bordes&quot;&gt;{{cite book|author= François Bordes|title=Leçons sur le Paléolithique|page=229|publisher=CNRS Éditions|year=2003|isbn=978-2-271-05836-2|quotation=Récemment encore les Indigènes des îles Andaman ne savaient pas allumer le feu, et le conservaient dans des caches, qu'ils rallumaient à l'occasion avec des brandons empruntés aux peuples voisins.|author-link=François Bordes}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{rp|229}} They instead carefully preserved embers&lt;ref name = &quot;Bordes&quot; /&gt;{{rp|229}} in hollowed-out trees from fires caused by lightning strikes.<br /> <br /> The men wore girdles made of hibiscus fiber which carried useful tools and weapons for when they went hunting. The women on the other hand wore a tribal dress containing leaves that were held by a belt. A majority of them had painted bodies as well. They usually slept on leaves or mats and had either permanent or temporary habitation among the tribes. All habitations were man made.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title = The Aboriginal Inhabitants of the Andaman Islands|url = https://books.google.com/books?id=NnBAiQnFLpgC|publisher = Mittal Publications|date = 1 January 1932|first = Edward Horace|last = Man|first2 = Alexander John|last2 = Ellis}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Some of the tribe members were credited to having supernatural powers. They were called oko-pai-ad, which meant dreamer. They were thought to have an influence on the members of the tribe and would bring misfortune to those who did not believe in their abilities. Traditional knowledge practitioners were the ones who helped with healthcare. The medicine that was used to cure illnesses were herbal most of the time. Various types of medicinal plants were used by the islanders. 77 total traditional knowledge practitioners were identified and 132 medicinal plants were used. The members of the tribes found various ways to use leaves in their everyday lives including clothing, medicine, and to sleep on.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|title = EBSCO Publishing Service Selection Page|url = http://eds.b.ebscohost.com/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?vid=9&amp;sid=94a7606d-170c-4266-ab58-49cc3cebd14f%2540sessionmgr112&amp;hid=112|website = eds.b.ebscohost.com|accessdate = 30 October 2015}}{{Dead link|date=September 2019 |bot=InternetArchiveBot |fix-attempted=yes }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Anthropologist [[Alfred Radcliffe-Brown|A.R. Radcliffe Brown]] argued that the Andamanese had no government and made decisions by group [[Consensus decision-making|consensus]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title=The Andaman Islanders|last=Brown|first=A.R. Radcliffe|publisher=Cambridge University Press|year=1933|location=Cambridge|pages=44}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> === Religion ===<br /> The native Andamanese religion and belief system is a form of [[Animism]]. [[Ancestor worship]] is an important element in the religious traditions of the Andaman islands.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Brown|first=A. R.|date=1909|title=The Religion of the Andaman Islanders|journal=Folklore|volume=20|issue=3|pages=257–271|issn=0015-587X|jstor=1254079|doi=10.1080/0015587X.1909.9719883}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Physical appearance==<br /> {{see|Negrito|Australo-Melanesian}}<br /> <br /> === Phenotype ===<br /> [[File:A young Onge mother with her baby.jpg|thumb|upright|A young [[Onge]] mother with her baby, Andaman Islands, [[British Raj|British India]], 1905.]]<br /> Negritos, specifically Andamanese, are grouped together by phenotype and anthropological features. Three physical features that distinguish the Andaman islanders include: skin colour, hair, and stature. Those of the Andaman islands have dark skin, are short in stature, and have &quot;frizzy&quot; hair.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bulbeck&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> === Dental morphology ===<br /> Dental characteristics also group the Andamanese between Negrito and East-Asian samples.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> When comparing dental morphology the focus is on overall size and tooth shape. To measure the size and shape, Penrose's size and shape statistic is used. To calculate tooth size, the sum of the tooth area is taken. Factor analysis is applied to tooth size to achieve tooth shape. Results have shown that the dental morphology of Andaman Islanders resembles that of South Asians, whereas Philippine Negrito groups more closely resemble southeast Asians in their dental morphology. Therefore, the dental morphology of the Andamanese indicates a retention of dental morphology from early South Asians in the early-mid Holocene. Overall the dental morphology of the Andamanese is found to be distant from that of modern East Asians. However it is noted that the tooth size of the Andamanese is similar to that of the [[Han Chinese]] and Japanese.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bulbeck&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Genetics==<br /> [[File:Great Andamanese scarification pattern - 1901.jpg|thumb|right|&quot;Scarification pattern among the Great Andamanese in the late 19th century. Nothing is known of the origins or antiquity of this custom among the Andamanese.&quot;]]<br /> [[genetics|Genetic analysis]], both of nuclear DNA&lt;ref name=&quot;wells2002&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2003j&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=Molecular Relatedness of The Aboriginal Groups of Andaman and Nicobar Islands with Similar Ethnic Populations | author=V. K. Kashyap |author2=Sitalaximi T. |author3=B. N. Sarkar |author4=R. Trivedi1 | journal=International Journal of Human Genetics |volume=3 |issue=1 |pages=5–11 | year=2003 | accessdate = 8 June 2009 | url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/IJHG/IJHG-03-0-000-000-2003-Web/IJHG-03-1-001-067-2003-Abst-PDF/IJHG-03-1-005-011-2003-Kashyap/IJHG-03-1-005-011-2003-Kashyap.pdf | quote=... the Negrito populations of Andaman Islands have remained in isolation ... the Andamanese are more closely related to other Asians than to modern day Africans ... the Nicobarese exhibiting a close affinity with geographically proximate Indo-Mongoloid populations of Northeast India ...| doi=10.1080/09723757.2003.11885820 }}&lt;/ref&gt; and [[mitochondrial DNA]]&lt;ref name=&quot;endicott2003&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The Genetic Origins of the Andaman Islanders | author1=M. Phillip Endicott | author2=Thomas P. Gilbert | author3=Chris Stringer | author4-link=Carles Lalueza-Fox | author4=Carles Lalueza-Fox | author5=Eske Willerslev | author6=Anders J. Hansen | author7=Alan Cooper | year=2003 | accessdate=21 April 2009 | url=http://www.dna.gfy.ku.dk/course/papers/B2.endicott.pdf | journal=American Journal of Human Genetics | volume=72 | issue=1 | pages=178–184 | quote=... The HVR-1 data separate them into two lineages, identified on the Indian mainland (Bamshad et al. 2001) as M4 and M2 ... The Andamanese M2 contains two haplotypes ... developed in situ, after an early colonization ... Alternatively, it is possible that the haplotypes have become extinct in India or are present at a low frequency and have not yet been sampled, but, in each case, an early settlement of the Andaman Islands by an M2-bearing population is implied ... The Andaman M4 haplotype ... is still present among populations in India, suggesting it was subject to the late Pleistocene population expansions ... | pmid=12478481 | doi=10.1086/345487 | pmc=378623 }}{{Dead link|date=September 2018 |bot=InternetArchiveBot |fix-attempted=yes }}&lt;/ref&gt; provide information about the origins of the Andamanese. The Andamanese are most genetically similar to the Malaysian Negrito tribe.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|last1=Aghakhanian|first1=F.|last2=Yunus|first2=Y.|last3=Naidu|first3=R.|last4=Jinam|first4=T.|last5=Manica|first5=A.|last6=Hoh|first6=B. P.|last7=Phipps|first7=M. E.|title=Unravelling the Genetic History of Negritos and Indigenous Populations of Southeast Asia|journal=Genome Biology and Evolution|date=14 April 2015|volume=7|issue=5|pages=1206–1215|doi=10.1093/gbe/evv065|pmid=25877615|pmc=4453060|url=http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/7/5/1206.full.pdf|accessdate=1 November 2015}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Nuclear DNA===<br /> The Andamanese show a very small genetic variation, which is indicative of populations that have experienced a [[population bottleneck]] and then developed in isolation for a long period.<br /> <br /> An [[allele]] has been discovered among the Jarawas that is found nowhere else in the world. Blood samples of 116 Jarawas were collected and tested for Duffy blood group and malarial parasite infectivity. Results showed a total absence of both [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2271/ Fya and Fyb antigens] in two areas (Kadamtala and R.K Nallah) and low prevalence of both Fya antigen in another two areas (Jirkatang and Tirur). There was an absence of malarial parasite [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK294430/ ''Plasmodium vivax''] infection though [[Plasmodium falciparum|''Plasmodium falciparum'' infection]] was present in 27·59% of cases. A very high frequency of Fy (a–b–) in the Jarawa tribe from all the four jungle areas of Andaman Islands along with total absence of ''P. vivax'' infections suggests the selective advantage offered to Fy (a–b–) individuals against ''P. vivax'' infection.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7798109|title=The Duffy blood groups of Jarawas - The primitive and vanishing tribe of Andaman and Nicobar Islands of India {{!}} Request PDF|website=ResearchGate|language=en|access-date=23 November 2018}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Overall, the Andamanese showed closest relations with other Oceanic populations. The Nicobarese in contrast were observed to share close genetic relations with adjacent Indo-Mongoloid populations of Northeast India and Myanmar.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2003j&quot; /&gt; Bulbeck (2013) likewise noted that the Andamanese's nuclear DNA clusters with that of other Andamanese Islanders, as they carry a unique branch of [[Haplogroup D-M174|Haplogroup D]] (D1a3) and maternal [[Super-Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|M (mtDNA)]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Bulbeck&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|last=Bulbeck|first=David|date=November 2013|title=Craniodental Affinities of Southeast Asia's &quot;Negritos&quot; and the Concordance with Their Genetic Affinities|url=http://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2053&amp;context=humbiol|journal=Human Biology|volume=85|issue=1|pages=95–134|doi=10.3378/027.085.0305|pmid=24297222|accessdate=17 December 2013}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Genomic===<br /> The use of single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) shows that the genome of Andamanese people is closest to those of other Oceanic Negrito groups and distinct from South Asians and East Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bulbeck&quot; /&gt; Analysis of mtDNA, which is inherited exclusively by maternal descent, confirms the above results. All Onge belong to M32 mtDNA, a [[Super-Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|subgroup of M]] which is unique to Onge people.&lt;ref name=&quot;endicott2003&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Reich et al. (2009). [[South Asian]] populations of the [[Indian subcontinent]] are composed, to significantly varying degrees, of mixtures of ancestry from: a group (known as &quot;ASI&quot; or &quot;Ancestral South Indian&quot;) closest to but distinct from Andaman islanders, and populations from Western Eurasia (comprising a component termed &quot;ANI&quot; or &quot;Ancestral North Indian&quot;).{{sfn|Reich|2009a|p=40}} Reich et al. speculate that the Andamanese split from mainland Asia 1,700 generations ago.&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich&quot;/&gt; Andamanese are the only South Asian population in the study that lacked any Ancestral North Indian admixture.&lt;ref name=Reich /&gt; According to Basu et al. (2016), the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct ancestry, which is &quot;coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations and not close to South Asians (India).&quot; They conclude that the Andamanese, though they may be the closest existing group to the ancient &quot;ASI&quot; ancestral component in modern South Asians, have a distinct ancestry and are not closely related to other South Asians but are closer to Southeast Asian Negritos.{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}} <br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the &quot;ASI&quot; component in South Asians, though not closely related to any living group, is &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. also suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI. The study concluded that “almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West Eurasians in PCA (referred to as “Indian cline”)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A genetic analysis from Chaubey et al. 2015 found evidence of East Asian ([[Han Chinese]]-related) ancestry in Andamanese people. They estimated 32% East Asian ancestry in the [[Onge]] and 31% in the [[Great Andamanese]], but suggest that this finding also may reflect the genetic affinity of the Andamanese to Melanesian and Southeast Asian Negrito populations (stating that &quot;The Han ancestry measured in Andaman Negrito is probably partially capturing both Melanesian and Malaysian Negrito ancestry&quot;),&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322207974|title=East Asian ancestry in India|last=Chaubey|date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt; as a previous study by Chaubey et al. suggested &quot;a deep common ancestry&quot; between Andamanese, Melanesians and other Negrito groups (as well as South Asians), and an affinity between Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians with East Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;Chaubey_and_Endicott&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Chaubey|first=Gyaneshwer|last2=Endicott|first2=Phillip|date=2013-02-01|title=The Andaman Islanders in a regional genetic context: reexamining the evidence for an early peopling of the archipelago from South Asia|journal=Human Biology|volume=85|issue=1–3|pages=153–172|doi=10.3378/027.085.0307|issn=1534-6617|pmid=24297224|url=https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2055&amp;context=humbiol}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> McColl et al. (2018) Analysed 26 ancient samples from Southeast Asia and Japan spanning from the late Neolithic to the Iron Age, along with an ancient Ikawazu [[Jomon|Jōmon]] sample from southeast [[Honshu]].The Jomon female skeleton which was analyzed shows typical Jōmon morphology.&lt;ref&gt;https://www.kanazawa-u.ac.jp/latest-research/59409&lt;/ref&gt; However this Jōmon individual partially shares some ancestry with prehistoric [[Hoabinhian|Hoabinhians]], which in turn also share some ancestry with the [[Onge]], Jehai (Peninsular Malaysia) in mainland Southeast Asia along with [[Indian people|Indian]] groups and [[Papua New Guinea|Papua New Guineans]], which represents possible gene flow from that group into the Jōmon population.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Willerslev|first=Eske|last2=Lambert|first2=David M.|last3=Higham|first3=Charles|last4=Oota|first4=Hiroki|last5=Phipps|first5=Maude E.|last6=Sikora|first6=Martin|last7=Orlando|first7=Ludovic|last8=Lahr|first8=Marta Mirazón|last9=Foley|first9=Robert A.|date=2018-07-06|title=The prehistoric peopling of Southeast Asia|journal=Science|language=en|volume=361|issue=6397|pages=88–92|doi=10.1126/science.aat3628|issn=0036-8075|pmid=29976827|quote=“Finally, the Jōmon individual is best-modeled as a mix between a population related to group 1/Önge and a population related to East Asians (Amis)” and “The oldest layer consists of mainland Hòabìnhians (group 1), who share ancestry with present-day Andamanese Önge, Malaysian Jehai, and the ancient Japanese Ikawazu Jōmon. Consistent with the two-layer hypothesis in MSEA, we observe a change in ancestry by ~4 ka ago, supporting a demographic expansion from EA into SEA during the Neolithic transition to farming.” and “Group 1 individuals differ from the other Southeast Asian ancient samples in containing components shared with the supposed descendants of the Hòabìnhians: the Önge and the Jehai (Peninsular Malaysia), along with groups from India and Papua New Guinea.”|bibcode=2018Sci...361...88M}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Jōmon individual is best modeled as a mix of Hòabìnhian (La368) and East Asian ancestry while present-day East Asians can be modeled as a mixture of an Önge-like population and a population related to the Tiányuán individual..&lt;ref&gt;[https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F3.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Fig. 3 Admixture graphs fitting ancient Southeast Asian genomes]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88&lt;/ref&gt; However, there is still lack of ancient genome data to understand the peopling history of East Eurasians. It is required to analyze more ancient genome data, if there found appropriate skeletons, in order to fill the gap and to prove the speculation.&lt;ref name=&quot;biorxiv.org&quot;&gt;https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/03/15/579177.full.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A study by {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} concludes that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE, and were preceded by a mixture of AASI (Ancient Ancestral South Indian, i.e. hunter-gatherers sharing a common root with the Andamanese); and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery population are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; (with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population). According Narasimhan the genetic makeup of the ASI population consisted of about 73% AASI and about 27% from Iran-related peoples.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> Another genetic study by Yelmen et al. (2019) shows that the native South Asian genetic component is distinct from the Andamanese and thus that the Andamanese (Onge) are an imperfect and imprecise proxy for &quot;ASI&quot; ancestry in South Asians (there is difficulty detecting ASI ancestry in the North Indian Gujarati when the Andamanese Onge are used). Yemen et al. suggest that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Two more recent genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019) on remains from the [[Indus Valley civilisation]] (of parts of Bronze Age northwest India and east Pakistan) found them to have a mixed ancestry: The samples analyzed by Shinde et al. had about 50-98% of their genome from Iranian [[hunter-gatherer]] peoples, which were also ancestral to Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% from South-east Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common ancestry with the Andamanese, with the Iranian ancestry being on average predominant. The samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry). The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;[[Steppe ancestry]]&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history. Further Narasimhan et al. 2019 notes that the high correlation between Dravidian and ASI ancestry may suggest that the Dravidians originated from the AASI component and are native to peninsular South Asia (south and east India).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10 |date = September 2019 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 | pmid = 31495572 | pmc = 6800651 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasomhan VM et al.| title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487|date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661| pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Y DNA===<br /> [[File:Haplogroup D (Y-DNA) migration.png|thumb|Proposed migration routes of haplogroup [[Haplogroup D (Y-DNA)|D]] branches.]]<br /> The male [[Human Y chromosome haplogroup|Y-chromosome]] in humans is inherited exclusively through paternal descent. All sampled males of Onges (23/23) and Jarawas (4/4) belong to [[Haplogroup D-M174|Paragroup D-M174*]](D1a3).&lt;ref&gt;Kumarasamy et al.(2003)[https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(02)01336-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982202013362%3Fshowall%3Dtrue Genetic Affinities of the Andaman Islanders, a Vanishing Human Population] Current Biology Volume 13, Issue 2, Pages 86–93 doi:10.1016/S0960-9822(02)01336-2&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;ISOGG&quot;&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpD08.html |title=Y-DNA Haplogroup D and its Subclades – 2008 |publisher=Isogg.org |accessdate=14 May 2010}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Tajima2004&quot;&gt;{{Citation | last = Tajima | first = Atsushi | year = 2004 | title = Genetic origins of the Ainu inferred from combined DNA analyses of maternal and paternal lineages | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 49 | issue = 4 | pages = 187–193 | doi = 10.1007/s10038-004-0131-x | pmid = 14997363 |display-authors=etal}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.yfull.com/tree/D/ Y-Full]&lt;/ref&gt; However, male Great Andamanese do not appear to carry these clades. A low resolution study suggests that they belong to haplogroups [[Haplogroup K (Y-DNA)|K]], [[Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)|L]], [[Haplogroup O (Y-DNA)|O]] and [[Haplogroup P-M45 (Y-DNA)|P1]] (P-M45).&lt;ref name=&quot;thangaraj2002&quot;&gt;{{Citation|author=Kumarasamy Thangaraj|title=Genetic Affinities of the Andaman Islanders, a Vanishing Human Population|url=http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/CB_2002_p1-18.pdf|year=2002|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20081029071336/http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/CB_2002_p1-18.pdf|url-status=dead|quote=... Our data indicate that the Andamanese have closer affinities to Asian than to African populations and suggest that they are the descendants of the early Palaeolithic colonizers of Southeast Asia ... All Onge and Jarawa had the same binary haplotype D ... Great Andaman males had five different binary haplotypes, found previously in Southeast Asia, the Indian subcontinent, and Melanesia ...|accessdate=16 November 2008|archivedate=29 October 2008|author2=Lalji Singh|author3=Alla G. Reddy|author4=V. Raghavendra Rao|author5=Subhash C. Sehgal|author6=Peter A. Underhill|author7=Melanie Pierson|author8=Ian G. Frame|author9=Erika Hagelberg|authorlink2=Lalji Singh|authorlink9=Erika Hagelberg}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A 2017 study by Mondal et al. finds that Andamanese D lineages diverged from Japanese D lineages lineage ~53000 years ago&quot; and that Andamanese D lineages and those of the [[Tripuri people|Riang]] (a Tibeto-Burmese population) have their nearest related lineages in [[East Asia]], also finding that the D lineages of the Jarawa and Onge (both Andamanese groups) share a common ancestry more recently, within the last ~7000 years. They further suggest that: “This strongly suggests that haplogroup D does not indicate a separate ancestry for Andamanese populations. Rather, haplogroup D was part of the standing variation carried by the OOA expansion, and later lost from most of the populations except in Andaman and partially in Japan and Tibet”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Mitochondrial DNA===<br /> Analysis of [[Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup|mtDNA]], which is inherited exclusively by maternal descent, confirms the above results. The [[Onge]] and all the Adamanan Islanders belong strictly to the [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|mitochondrial Haplogroup M]]. All Andamanese belong to M31 and M32 mtDNA, a [[Super-Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|subgroup of M]] which is unique to Andamanese people.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bulbeck&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;endicott2003&quot; /&gt; The analysis of 20 coding regions in 20 samples of ancient Andamanese people and 12 samples of modern Indian populations changed the topology of the two lineages in South Asians. The data received suggests an M31a lineage in South Asians and in East Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|title = Multiplexed SNP Typing of Ancient DNA Clarifies the Origin of Andaman mtDNA Haplogroups amongst South Asian Tribal Populations|journal = PLoS ONE|date = 20 December 2006|pmc = 1766372|pmid = 17218991|pages = e81|volume = 1|issue = 1|doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0000081|first = Phillip|last = Endicott|first2 = Mait|last2 = Metspalu|first3 = Chris|last3 = Stringer|first4 = Vincent|last4 = Macaulay|first5 = Alan|last5 = Cooper|first6 = Juan J.|last6 = Sanchez|bibcode = 2006PLoSO...1...81E}}&lt;/ref&gt; Other mainland specific [[Super-Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|subgroups of M]] are distributed in [[Asia]], where they represent 60% of all maternal lineages.&lt;ref name=&quot;thangaraj2002&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;petraglia2007&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The evolution and history of human populations in South Asia |author1=Michael D. Petraglia |author2=Bridget Allchin | publisher=Springer | year=2007 | isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 | url=https://books.google.com/?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC | quote=... As haplogroup M, except for the African sub-clade M1, is not notably present in regions west of the Indian subcontinent, while it covers the majority of Indian mtDNA variation ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Rajkumar et al.&quot;&gt;Revathi Rajkumar et al., [http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/5/26 Phylogeny and antiquity of M macrohaplogroup inferred from complete mt DNA sequence of Indian specific lineages], BMC Evolutionary Biology 2005, 5:26 {{doi|10.1186/1471-2148-5-26}} {{PMID|15804362}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Endicott et al. (2002), this haplogroup originated with the earliest settlers of India during the coastal migration that may have brought the ancestors of the Andamanese to the Indian mainland, the Andaman Islands, and farther afield to Southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;endicott2002&quot;&gt;{{Citation | title=The Genetic Origins of the Andaman Islanders |author1=Phillip Endicott |author2=M. Thomas P. Gilbert |author3=Chris Stringer |author4=Carles Lalueza-Fox |author5=Eske Willerslev |author6=Anders J. Hansen |author7=Alan Cooper | date= 1 January 2002| publisher=The American Society of Human Genetics | quote=... The high frequency of M2 is consistent with its greater age, and its distribution suggests that many of the populations viewed as the [[indigenous peoples|autochthon]]s of India because of their cultural inheritance may also be genetic descendants of the early settlers of southern Asia ... | pmid=12478481 | journal=American Journal of Human Genetics | issue=1 | volume=72 | doi=10.1086/345487 | pmc=378623 | pages=178–84 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Archaic Admixture===<br /> Unlike some Negrito populations of Southeast Asia, Andaman Islanders have not been found to have [[Denisovan]] ancestry.&lt;ref name=&quot;Choi.&quot;&gt;{{Citation |url=http://www.livescience.com/16171-denisovans-humans-widespread-sex-asia.html |title=Now-Extinct Relative Had Sex with Humans Far and Wide |publisher=[[LiveScience]] |date=22 September 2011 |first=Charles |last=Choi}}&lt;/ref&gt; However, they are estimated, like all other non-African populations, to possess approximately 1-2% [[Neanderthal]] ancestry.&lt;ref name=&quot;Mondal, Bertranpetit &amp; Lao.&quot;&gt;{{Citation |title= Approximate Bayesian computation with deep learning supports a third archaic introgression in Asia and Oceania |journal=[[Nature Communications]] |volume= 10 |issue= 1 |pages= 246 |date=16 January 2019 |first=Mayukh |last=Mondal|doi= 10.1038/s41467-018-08089-7 |pmid= 30651539 |pmc= 6335398 |bibcode= 2019NatCo..10..246M }}&lt;/ref&gt; A study suggests that all Asian and Australo-Papuan populations, including Andaman Islanders, also share between 2.6 and 3.4% of the genetic profile of a previously unknown hominin that was genetically roughly equidistant to Denisovans and Neandertals.&lt;ref name=&quot;Teixeira &amp; Cooper&quot;&gt;{{Citation |title= Using hominin introgression to trace modern human dispersals |journal= Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences |volume= 116 |issue= 31 |pages= 15327–15332 |publisher=[[PNAS]] |date=17 June 2019 |first=Joao |last=Teixeira|doi= 10.1073/pnas.1904824116 |pmid= 31300536 |pmc= 6681743 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Mondal, Bertranpetit &amp; Lao.&quot;/&gt; However, a 2018 study by Skoglund et al. lead by the Harvard Reich lab team did not replicate that result and did not find evidence for admixture from an unknown hominin in the Andamanese or other Asians.&lt;ref&gt; Skoglund et al 2018 [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6433599/ No evidence for unknown archaic ancestry in South Asia]&lt;/ref&gt; Wall et al. 2019 also did not find evidence of unknown archaic hominin admixture in Andamanese.&lt;ref&gt;Wall et al. 2019 [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002929719304264 Identification of African-Specific Admixture between Modern and Archaic Humans]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> *[[Adivasis]]<br /> *[[Andamanese languages]]<br /> *[[Uncontacted peoples]]<br /> *[[Early human migrations]]<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note|2}}<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> *[https://web.archive.org/web/20131020185236/http://www.andaman.org/ The Andamanese by George Weber]<br /> *[http://awa.survivalinternational.org/news/tribes/jarawa News by Survival International]{{dead link|date=October 2016 |bot=InternetArchiveBot |fix-attempted=yes }}<br /> *[https://web.archive.org/web/20070927020220/http://awa.survival-international.org/news/video/jarawa Videos by] [[Survival International]]<br /> <br /> {{Negritos}}<br /> <br /> {{Authority control}}<br /> <br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands]]<br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Scheduled Tribes of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands]]<br /> [[Category:Negritos]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945420300 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T21:15:28Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrito&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last yearclaiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. And that they found Chinese ancestry in Africans (recent Shum Lake paper didn't mention this part lol). There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, one of them is on several pages. He is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945417064 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T20:48:24Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrito&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last yearclaiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. And that they found Chinese ancestry in Africans (recent Shum Lake paper didn't mention this part lol). There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, he is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945416971 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T20:47:48Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrotio&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians, and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last yearclaiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. And that they found Chinese ancestry in Africans (recent Shum Lake paper didn't mention this part lol). There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, he is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945416864 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T20:47:03Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrotio&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians, and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last yearclaiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. And that found Chinese ancestry in Africans.(recent Shum Lake paper didn't mention this part lol). There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, he is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945416817 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T20:46:38Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrotio&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians, and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last yearclaiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. And that found Chinese ancestry in Africans.(recent Shum Lake paper didn't mention this page lol). There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, he is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945416191 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T20:42:19Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrotio&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians, and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various peer-reviewed studies from reich and haravrd groups, pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last year claiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, he is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945415669 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T20:38:34Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrotio&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians, and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various Reich group Harvard studies pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. Which came out last year claiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, he is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945415452 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T20:37:10Z <p>Ilber8000: /* POV maps */</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrotio&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians, and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various Reich group Harvard studies pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. It came out last year claiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Reliable peer-reviewed ancient DNA study suggests otherwise, this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] from ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) from based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018] study.<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, he is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Australo-Melanesian&diff=945415009 Talk:Australo-Melanesian 2020-03-13T20:34:09Z <p>Ilber8000: /</p> <hr /> <div>{{Skip to talk}}<br /> {{Talk header}}<br /> {{Calm}}<br /> {{WikiProject banner shell|1=<br /> {{WikiProject Anthropology|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Ethnic groups|class=B|importance=High}}<br /> {{WikiProject South Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Oceania|class=B|importance=Top}}<br /> {{WikiProject Linguistics|class=B|importance=}}<br /> {{WikiProject Culture|class=|importance=}}<br /> }}<br /> {{findsourcesnotice}}<br /> <br /> {| class=&quot;infobox&quot; width=&quot;270px&quot;<br /> |-<br /> !align=&quot;center&quot;|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]&lt;br/&gt;[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]<br /> ----<br /> <br /> |-<br /> |<br /> <br /> ==Untitled==<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 1|December 2005 &amp;ndash; February 2007]]<br /> * [[Talk:Australoid/Archive 2|March 2005 &amp;ndash; April 2007]]<br /> *<br /> <br /> |}&lt;!--Template:Archivebox--&gt;<br /> <br /> == Picture ==<br /> <br /> What's up with removing the pictures? You may argue that the term i outdated, but the images were produced back when the term was used, and are therefore valid illustrations for it. Also, Fred, please at least give a reason for your edits, and bring it to the talk page before reverting.[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :It does ''not'' use the term Australoid. It presents a caption and gives weight to the idea that people represented are a type. How would you categorise me? I am finding this very offensive, why the abiding interest in racism and antagonism. Please remove it and try to improve something. There is a word for this. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 03:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> Please, how are ''you'' relevant to this discussion? This is an article about a term which is very rarely used today, obsolete if you will, but it was once in use, and the illustrations show what the term referred to. Please come up with some good arguments for removing these images, or they stay. And please don't remove sourced statements. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:35, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> *Quit making baseless accusations. The first source refers to physical anthropology in general, and therefore includes Australoids. Anyhow, the sentence says that racial classification is disputed, not the term Australoid, so your current objection is irrelevant. Footnote five clearly mentions the term on the other hand, so I don't see why you want to remove that. As for the pictures, the first one shows what the term refers to, and the second picture does too. You better come up with some better arguments, so far they aren't convincing. Or let's at least wait for a third party, even as such has already made an opinion. Your constant mention of yourself in this discussion makes me believe that you have something personal involved, which would make your arguments POV. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 03:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::The highly outdated book called &quot;The living races of mankind : a popular illustrated account&quot; uses a three race system to describe the world. The word &quot;Australoid&quot; does not appear in this book [https://archive.org/stream/livingracesofman01john#page/n13/mode/2up/search/australoid]. It is original research to assume these photographs show members of the Australiod race, as the book they are taken from says otherwise. So the pictures have no connection with this article. Out of interest, I have examined the text from the book and it says Aboriginal Australians &quot;are mainly a pure-bred race and if so, there can be no hesitation in classing them as of Caucasian origin, and allied to the Veddas of Ceylon and the Toalas of Celebres&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Stereotype===<br /> *[[Stereotype]]<br /> <br /> :edit summary: &quot;these photos are stereotypical, hence they are not appropriate&quot;. Err, that's exactly why they ''are'' appropriate. They represent the stereotypical (or perhaps archetypical) image of the Australoid. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 13:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with Fred. this is why the terms were not in use. Pictures in these articles are best avoided. If they are to be used the editors should make the effort to ensure that the pictures do not cause offense or controversy. This is the only way that a picture can have a sustained presence in an article.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> :So your main argument is pretty much based on the idea that censorship should be implemented on Wikipedia. I find that pretty hard to take seriously. Again, we have pictures of Muhammad, erect penises, swastikas, but we can't have a picture of a bunch of people. Strange. I'll direct your attention to this again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored[[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Not a soapbox either. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 14:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> *Heh. I want to add relevant content which ''will'' help the understanding of the article, whereas you want to leave it out because you believe it ''might'' offend someone, and apparently for personal reasons, since you keep bringing yourself up with the &quot;how would you classify me&quot; gibberish. Are you an Australian Aboriginal? [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> there is already an article for indigenous australians. You know that you cannot sneak your photos into that article so you look for the lesser known article. These photos are old and the caption says australian types not australoid.[[User:Muntuwandi|Muntuwandi]] 19:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0178.jpg|thumb|right|Examples of Australian types in a [[lexicon]] from [[1914]], which were then believed to belong to the Australoid race.&lt;/s&gt;<br /> * I know that I cannot what? It never occurred to me, because some of the types are not from Australia itself. So please quit your ridiculous assumptions. For the record, the picture in question is on the right. Don't remove it from the talk page. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] 23:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> **Here is the page from the work in question.[http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student's_Reference_Work/Australia] There is no mention of Australoid in the article. I am intrigued by your ''research'' though, I will keep in touch. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Fred.e| Fred &lt;big&gt;☻&lt;/big&gt; ]]&lt;/span&gt; 10:20, 18 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Paul Barlow==<br /> I used the following policies in my edit summaries to justify my edits: [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:TOPIC]] and [[WP:BETTER]]. First, the [[WP:BETTER|better]] article consists of a short article which my version faithfully demonstrates. My version is straight to the point. My version says Australoid is disputed, based on skulls and variously refers to South Asians, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians and indigenous Austrlians. Much of the bulk of the previous version consisted of [[WP:TOPIC|off topic]] racial classifications of non-Australoids in famous peoples' racial classification systems. This is not those anthropologists' articles, so the inclusion of their non-Australoid ideas are off topic. Although probably verifiable, the statement that the Australoid race is discredited by genetics and that the Gond people are Australoid is uncited [[WP:NOR|original research]]. I don't know about the appropriateness of the picture. The person who uploaded it tried adding similar pictures to the other racial articles, but other editors claimed they didn't actually say, Australoid, Negroid, etc. in the original source. The picture may be original research in this article.--&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 14:32, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Utter dross and misrepresentation of policy as usual. No article is better short - that's a stub, and the policy is to expand stubs. Specific sentences are better in concise rather than prolix form, but there is no policy to simply cut out great chunks of relevant information. The picture is clearly not original research as it illustates the topic. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 14:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::Stubs aren't good but shorter articles are better, since they make the article concise. The picture is [[WP:SYN|synthesis]] if it says that it represents Australians and another source says Australians are Australoid.----&lt;sup&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[User:Dark Tea|Dark]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;purple&quot;&gt;[[User talk:Dark Tea|Tea]]&lt;/font&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;darkslateblue&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/Dark Tea|&amp;#169;]]&lt;/font&gt; 16:34, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> :::The picture simply illustrates what was meant by the term. You know this, but you prefer to engage in wikilawyering rather than including material that informs the reader and add meaninf=fulk content. ''All'' models of the category Austaloids include native Australians. An article is best which clearly expains and discusses the content for the reader rather than one that tries to repress or hide information. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] 17:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)<br /> ::::The pictures are taken from a 1902 book which is presently online about the races of mankind. Anyone can check that these books, despite being from a period which believed in scientific racism and directly describing the races as biological, do not use the term Australoid. These &gt;100 year old book describe the pictures as related to other races. Australoid was never a useful theory, as can be shown from books 100 years ago, yet alone today. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:52, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==The first Americans?==<br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]].<br /> <br /> Skulls comparable to Australoid peoples have been found in the Americas, leading to speculation that peoples with phenotypical similarities to modern Australoids may have been the earliest occupants of the continent. &lt;ref&gt;[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&amp;articleID=000E8538-F33D-139D-B33D83414B7F0000 ''Scientific American'', Skulls Suggest Differing Stocks for First Americans, December 13, 2005]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/12/1212_051212_humans_americas.html ''National Geographic'', Americas Settled by Two Groups of Early Humans, Study Says, Dec 12, 2005]<br /> &lt;/ref&gt; These have been termed by some [[Pre-Siberian American Aborigines]]. These early Americans left signs of settlement in Brazil which may date back as many as 50,000 years ago. <br /> <br /> One of earliest skulls recovered by archaeologists is a specimen scientists have named Lucia.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm] According to [[archaeology|archaeologist]] Walter Neves of the [[University of São Paulo]], detailed measurements of the skull revealed that Lucia revealed that she &quot;''was anything but mongoloid.''&quot; Further, when a [[forensics|forensic]] artist reconstructed Lucia's face, &quot;''the result was surprising: 'It ha[d] all the features of a negroid face''&quot;&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Scientists believe these Australoid first Americans later were displaced relatively recently by peoples with more brachycephalic profiles, projecting zygomas and monolids ([[Bergmann's Rule|cold climate morphology]]) approximately 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. A small number of peoples living in [[Tierra del Fuego]] are speculated to be a possible remnant of these earliest known Americans.<br /> <br /> {{cquote|The pre-European Fuegeans, who lived stone age-style lives until this century, show hybrid skull features which could have resulted from intermarrying between mongoloid and negroid peoples. Their rituals and traditions also bear some resemblance to the ancient rock art in Brazil--BBC News, 1999.&lt;ref&gt;.[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm &quot;First Americans were Australian].&quot; BBC News, Sci/Tech. [[August 26]], [[1999]]. Accessed 01-07/2007.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> {{-}}<br /> :I moved the section here. A number of close exmainations hane not revealed any connection to the term, it is not mentioned in these refrences, it is original research, fugitive from other pages and deletion discussions. There is much more in there, that should also be moved. [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]] 12:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I'm wondering why this was removed. The sources clearly mention the skulls found were &quot;Australoid&quot; or &quot;Negroid.&quot; I'm reinserting it. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] ([[User talk:Deeceevoice|talk]]) 18:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::Undone. They do not. &lt;span style=&quot;font-variant: small-caps;&quot;&gt;[[User:Cygnis insignis|cygnis]] [[User talk:Cygnis insignis|insignis]]&lt;/span&gt; 09:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> :::You show your usual levels of intellectual dishonesty. Your fantasy that &quot;Australian&quot; in this context does not imply Australoid is unsustainable, and many sources can be found that contadict you. Restored with source. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I don't understand how the Australoids could have or would have had the advanced nautical technology like the [[Polynesians]] to enable them to migrate all the way across the [[Pacific Ocean]]. Has anyone seen any references about how they could have gotten to [[South America]]? (It is known that some Polynesians traveled to South America because they brought [[sweet potato]]s from there.) [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 02:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I don't think that it is necessarily implied that they were migrating from Australasia, just that early inhabitants of the Americas were morphologically similar to modern Australoids. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I see. After they reached Australia 50,000 years ago by migrating from Africa along the now submerged [[continental shelf]], they could have continued along the now submerged continental shelf up the east coast of Asia and into the [[Americas]]. That is a very interesting theory! [[User:Keraunos|Keraunos]] ([[User talk:Keraunos|talk]]) 04:54, 19 March 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Not unlikely. See [[Pericúes]] and [[Fuegians]], both now extinct. If Australoids could migrate from India to Australia and probably Japan (see [[Ainu]]), why is it surprising if they got to the Americas? Early humans dispersed all over the planet minus Antarctica. Australoids, Amerindians, [[Na Dene|Na-Dene]] people, Vikings... lol, Colombus didn't &quot;discover&quot; no nothing. 12:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC) &lt;span style=&quot;font-size: smaller;&quot; class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/213.109.230.96|213.109.230.96]] ([[User talk:213.109.230.96|talk]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> :: I really doubt the substance of this. There's no DNA evidence; just dubious anthropometry of a single skeleton.<br /> :: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luzia_Woman<br /> :: &quot;Neves' conclusions have been challenged by research done by anthropologists Rolando Gonzalez-Jose, Frank Williams and William Armelagos who have shown in their studies that the cranio-facial variability could just be due to genetic drift and other factors affecting cranio-facial plasticity in Native Americans.&quot;<br /> :::Some of these articles do not mention Australoid, so they have been removed. The argument above is that the word Australian means being Australoid. During the period of scientific racism, Australians were thought to be a range of things and it was rare that Australoid was used. Just because someone writes a story about Australians in the 21st century doesn't mean they adopted any particular race theory of the 19th century. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 09:59, 29 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dishonesty==<br /> This page has become a joke because of what can only be described as outright lying by some editors. The very first sentence stated that this classification is no longer used except by &quot;racialists&quot; (a highly misleading word) and was supported by a footnote from a page written by someone who ''supported'' the use of such classifications. The preposterous claim that Huxley abandoned his classification system after a &quot;peer review&quot; is supported by reference to a website which discusses the evolution of Huxley's views about whether or not physical differences correspond to innate mental differences, a view which in his later life Huxley came to question. This in no way implies that he rejected his system of classification. Indeed the very citation is referring to ''the actual article'' in which the classification is laid out! The attempt to delete the section on the first Americans is even more absurd. Nina G. Jablonski's ''The First Americans: The Pleistocene Colonization of the New World'' discusses this in some detail. It rejects the argument that Australoid colonisation took place, but uses the term on p137-8. The terms Australoid, Australian and Negroid are all used by Neve, the principal source for the argument that Turner in Jablonski's book discusses. Even more ridiculous is the fact that the real history and debates about the meaning of the term are obscured by the endless POV editorialising and deletion mania. What we need is a clear layout of the history of the concept, the arguments used to support it as a model of racial differences and the arguments that have been developed to criticise it. Ironically there is almost no criticism in the article as it currently stands and no attempt to explain the concept in a meaningful way. Remember, what we are supposed to be doing is building an encyclopedia that ''explains things''. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 12:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> *All the race articles are jokes, and they'll continue to be watered down whenever they are expanded. No one keeps track of them apart from the people who just want to delete them all. [[User:Funkynusayri|Funkynusayri]] ([[User talk:Funkynusayri|talk]]) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Suggest you look at actual [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=australoid scientific papers using Australoid] and add content from them. Many or most of the recent ones are by Indian scientists. --[[User:JWB|JWB]] ([[User talk:JWB|talk]]) 22:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)<br /> ::We should note the gross misuse of scientific papers listed here. There are papers listed that don't mention the term Australoid at all. There are papers that only mention Australoid as a debunked concept. There are papers that are extremely old and outdated. The comments defending this page are breaking wikipedia polices at all levels. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:20, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Yes. I found the pictures used from books from 1900's years old didn't say Australoid, but described Aboriginal Australians as Caucasian. The map from Meyers describes them as Negroid. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:05, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Veddas==<br /> Corrections/Comments: Balgir (2004) has mismatched the Proto-Australoid and Australoid racial designations. The former should refer to the Gond, Kondh, Kissan, Oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes; the latter should comprise the Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. Balgir should follow classical usage.<br /> <br /> The Veddas are a Caucasoid aboriginal hunter people of southern India and Ceylon. The racial constitution of the Veddas is Indo-European (Vedda is Sinhalese for &quot;hunter;&quot; Sinhalese is an Indo-European language), Proto-Australoid, and Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Cevene|Cevene]] ([[User talk:Cevene|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cevene|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> :Language and race do not correspond very well. Sudanese and Syrians speak Arabic, where as most Sudanese are African in origin, Syrians are Caucasian in racial type. Similarly, Veddas along with many aboriginal groups in the world speak the language of the predominant settler communities. [[User:Kanatonian|Kanatonian]] ([[User talk:Kanatonian|talk]]) 22:24, 17 January 2012 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Prederite Tense? ==<br /> <br /> How come everything is in past tense? Is this subspecies extinct?[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 03:56, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> I just found out that this is not a subspecies. Im sorry if anyone was offended[[Special:Contributions/69.226.111.151|69.226.111.151]] ([[User talk:69.226.111.151|talk]]) 20:11, 13 December 2009 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == What sourced or unsourced evidence is there for the claim that the man depicted in the second picture was from Yemen? ==<br /> <br /> [[User:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Courier New;color:#990024&quot;&gt;'''EIN'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] ([[User talk:Everything Is Numbers|&lt;font color=&quot;black&quot;&gt;talk&lt;/font&gt;]]) 11:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :According to the file, it's an illustration in a book by [[Carleton Coon]], who states that the man is from Yemen. The point, I suppose, is that he does not look like a typical Yemeni. It's used to illustrate Coon's theories about racial types and their histories. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Further research into the file history suggests that the claim that he's Yemeni was added by an IP some years after the file was uploaded [https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Veddah_Man.jpg&amp;diff=54710983&amp;oldid=42803544]. It may be accurate, or it may be baloney. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:23, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Well, it appears that Coon did publish a photograph of an &quot;Australoid&quot; man from Yemen in his book ''The Living Races of Man'', 1965. The picture can be seen here [http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4297660/2/]. But the person in the photo included here does not seem to be Yemeni. The confusion may be from the juxtaposition of images on this website [http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis%206.htm]. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 15:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)<br /> <br /> onde que luzia tem cranio australoide? &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 03:56, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> australoides e negrilhos são sub-troncos negroides a exemplo de congoides e resto a única razão para a separação é politica o pigmoide as vezes é separado para levanter a auto-estima do congoide que o genocidou o que não deixa de ser patetico sendo o pigmoide o negroide original &lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/187.64.9.219|187.64.9.219]] ([[User talk:187.64.9.219|talk]]) 04:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> == DNA studies? ==<br /> <br /> Everything in this article that describes this &quot;race&quot; is based on very old descriptions (suborbital brow ridges, etc.), but nothing modern including DNA studies. Is this distinction even supported by modern science? [[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 17:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :This is a page where edits seem to defend a archaic, unscientific concept. This page is entirely unreliable and indefensible. But it's a good example of how racial concepts perpetuate. See earlier comments. [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:25, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Obsolete theory? ==<br /> <br /> Add '''Category:Obsolete scientific theories'''?<br /> :[[User:Kortoso|Kortoso]] ([[User talk:Kortoso|talk]]) 16:30, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Yes [[Special:Contributions/43.243.12.31|43.243.12.31]] ([[User talk:43.243.12.31|talk]]) 11:26, 16 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> There are ample sources which show that this term is outdated, including the Oxford dictionary. An objector to this said &quot;term still used in studies today, such as by Wlkenson, synonymous with or related to 'Veddoid', 'Australasian', 'Australo-Melanesian' and 'Negrito' and Australoid or similar terms, such as Veddoid and Australo-Melanesian are still used in academic literature; nothing in soures about &quot;offense&quot;, nor about it being &quot;outdated&quot;' in fact, its been supported by genetics linking Negritos, Papuans, Aus Aborigines, Andamans, and southern Indians who have these features.&quot; <br /> There are no recent sources for these claims, and just because a word exists in a book from 1985, this does not refute the referenced source accurately describing the term as outdated or offensive. At present the [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:43, 9 July 2018 (UTC). <br /> We can list the existing plus two more references which describe Australoid as outdated:<br /> * The Oxford dictionary is quite clear [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/Australoid]<br /> * Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011) ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' Taylor and Francis Group. p. 127.[https://books.google.com.sg/books?id=306ruTniZmcC&amp;pg=PA127#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false] &quot;[Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid] and the Australian Group (&quot;Australoid&quot;). The rather outdated names of all but one of these groups were originally derived from geography ... The terms Caucasoid and Caucasian do not have the same oppressive, persecutory connotations as the other terms and so are less likely to cause offense.&quot; <br /> * Taylor J. Kieser J. (2015) ''Forensic Odontology: Principles and Practice'' page 337[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=AN9bCwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA337&amp;lpg=PA337&amp;dq=is+australoid+outdated&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=OgYDgH0cDd&amp;sig=_8kgu1YtxE_0v3trjJs85gXZ8UY&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwig7Py2uZLcAhWD62EKHegLALk4FBDoAQgoMAE#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid] &quot;Worldwide ancestral groups where traditionally known as Caucasoid, Australoid, Mongoloid [etc. These] so-called major racial groups have become outdated and replaced by descriptions of people as originating from particular geographic regions.&quot;<br /> * Barrett, S. (2009) ''Anthropology: A Student's Guide to Theory and Method''[https://books.google.com.hk/books?id=w_pWZM7iNnsC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=australoid+pseudoscientific&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=0ahUKEwjbooKxwJLcAhVRFogKHTlmCRw4FBDoAQhGMAY#v=onepage&amp;q=australoid&amp;f=false] &quot;An attempt was made to classify the population of the world into phenotypes (for example Negroid, Mongoloid, Australoid, and Caucasoid), employing observable criteria such as skin colour and hair types. A great deal of mischief was done by these attempts ... Today most physical anthropologists have abandoned classifications based on phenotype.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == External links modified ==<br /> <br /> Hello fellow Wikipedians,<br /> <br /> I have just modified 2 external links on [[Australoid race]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=782002268 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070612085927/http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm to http://anthro.palomar.edu/tutorials/pglossary.htm<br /> <br /> When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.<br /> <br /> {{sourcecheck|checked=true|needhelp=}}<br /> <br /> Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace&quot;&gt;InternetArchiveBot&lt;/span&gt;''']] &lt;span style=&quot;color:green;font-family:Rockwell&quot;&gt;([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])&lt;/span&gt; 11:45, 24 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Hidden comments within the article ==<br /> <br /> The following comments are hidden in the article for some reason:<br /> *!--the &quot;-oid&quot; terms remain in use in perfectly respectable academic literature, notably in Indian English and in forensic anthroplogy, but it seems they have been deemed unacceptable in US English and are therefore purged from Wikipedia, but also increasingly avoided by academics. It may be advisable to just use the synonyms deemed acceptable in the US instead of insisting on &quot;Wikipedia is not American English only&quot;--<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:51, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Irrelevant section ==<br /> <br /> This whole section seems to use modern genetic ideas, with no reference to 19th century race categories. Also there is a link to a online forum, which is not valid as a source:<br /> <br /> A 2006 [[Central Forensic Science Laboratory|CFSL]] research article which assessed &quot;3522 individuals belonging to 54 (23 belonging to the [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]], 18 to [[Dravidian Languages|Dravidian]], 7 to [[Tibeto-Burman Languages|Tibeto-Burman]] and 24 to [[Indo-European Languages|Indo-European]] linguistic groups) endogamous Indian populations, representing all major ethnic, linguistic and geographic groups&quot; for genetic variations to support such classifications found no conclusive evidence. It further summed that &quot;the absence of genetic markers to support the general clustering of population groups based on ethnic, linguistic, geographic or socio-cultural affiliations&quot; undermines the broad groupings based on such affiliations that exist in population genetic studies and forensic databases.&lt;ref name=&quot;kashyap2006bg&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|doi=10.1186/1471-2156-7-28|title=Genetic structure of Indian populations based on fifteen autosomal microsatellite loci|author=Kashyap, VK|author2=Guha, S.|author3=Sitalaximi, T.|author4=Bindu, G.H.|author5=Hasnain, S.E.|author6=Trivedi, R.|last-author-amp=yes|journal=BMC Genetics|volume=7|pages=28|year=2006|url=http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1471-2156-7-28.pdf|pmid=16707019|pmc=1513393}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Australoid components present through Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia is genetically closest to [[Negrito]] Andamanese Islanders&lt;ref&gt;http://www.livescience.com/38751-genetic-study-reveals-caste-system-origins.html&lt;/ref&gt; though still divergent&lt;ref&gt;http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/4846429/11/&lt;/ref&gt; however some Indians also have genetic links with Australian Aborigenes, though mixed with Caucasoid or Mongoloid genes as well.&lt;ref&gt;http://www.nature.com/news/genomes-link-aboriginal-australians-to-indians-1.12219&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:13, 2 July 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> You continue to pretend that this article is somehow about 19th century &quot;race categories&quot;. <br /> It is not. This is just the ''origin of the term''. This article is about anthropology, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century. The fact that some of the results of the 19th century may be outdated is no grounds on which to claim that the entire topic is outdated. <br /> Fair enough on the &quot;forum&quot; comment, of course the actual research should be cited, not journalism, and not online forums.<br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:18, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> :The article is a race category, it says so in the title and in the category [[:Category:Historical_definitions_of_race]]. Information above not based on reliable sources and contradict sources from linked on this page and the article page. You've including a reflist-talk, but seems not in support. Please refer to [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Debate within physical anthropology on social implications of pejorative terms ==<br /> <br /> As per references in the main body, this outdated classification has common origins with racist/pejorative terms. Physical anthropologists classify skulls in relation to ancestry and Australoid was one of the classifications discussed, however the anthropology field has adopted better and more accurate ways to discuss hereditary differences in human variation with geographical correlation. Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification. If source material is taken out of context and/or presented in a way that implies support for pejorative use of terms, then it wouldn't just be bias, but also fall under Wikipedia policy on how we treat living persons [[WP:BLP]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 05:46, 2 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Yes, modern anthropology does have, and does make use of, better methods than just craniology. <br /> This doesn't mean that the term suddenly ceases to be valid. Why all the harping on &quot;race&quot; when the concept is in perfectly scholarly use?<br /> If you are interested in discussing &quot;social implications&quot;, you are free to do so, but please take care not to interfere with the <br /> coverage of anthropological and archaeogenetic research. <br /> <br /> I am sorry if this sounds rude, but you do not understand WP:BLP. And I cannot parse &quot;Material from living persons exists that omits any explanation of the social implications of physical anthropology ancestry classification&quot;.<br /> I have become really tired by editors who ''pretend'' to be against racism, but who have nothing to do but make our articles on anthropology ''all about'' racism. Please feel free to cover racism, based on academic references, to your heart's content, but please do so without interfering with other editors who wish to cover anthropology, not racism. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 09:33, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The word &quot;interfere&quot; appears several times in the above comments. Please refer [[WP:OWN]] before further discussion. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Anonymous user ==<br /> <br /> There is an anonymous user who repeatedly makes the same edits, to stop presenting information available in any modern anthropological text about the current status of this concept. It is likely to be the same person who was blocked by an administrator a few months ago. They have a IP based user name: 2601:CB:8200:15B6:98E2:EF2F:776C:A01F. These can be reverted as soon as they occur. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 17:03, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==[[WP:NAME]]==<br /> While I would continue to insist, here as at [[Mongoloid]], that the &quot;-oid&quot; suffix has not pejorative implications whatsoever, <br /> I recognize that it is certainly so perceived among non-anthropologists, apparently primarily in the US.<br /> Since language on Wikipedia is heavily dominated by US English anyway, it may make sense to move this away from the faux-controversial &quot;-oid&quot; name to what appears to be more common in US literature today, Australo-Melanesian.<br /> <br /> The problem is, however, that &quot;Australoid&quot; is ''far'' more common than ''Australo-Melanesian'' (about 30k vs. 2k hits on google books). It seems to me that ''Australo-Melanesian'' was mostly introduced in recent decades just to avoid this very debate. It's just a label, after all, and the article should focus on the concept instead. <br /> <br /> I will continue to dispute that the term &quot;Australoid&quot; ''on its own'' is in any way objectively pejorative, as it continues to be used in perfectly scholarly literature, but I will concede, of course, that &quot;some commentators&quot; have claimed it has such connotations. <br /> <br /> --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:14, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Reviewing terminology further, I find that &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot; is clearly favoured in recent academic literature. <br /> &quot;Australoid&quot; has more hits because the term is much older, obviously, but it seems that over the last 20 years, it has been largely replaced by &quot;Australo-Melanesian&quot;. This appears to be an effect of the &quot;anti-oid-suffix sentiment&quot;.<br /> Documenting attitudes towards this Greek-derived suffix would be a task for Wiktionary, or perhaps an [[-oid]] page on Wikipedia, for our purposes here, I would suggest that the ancestry group is today best known as &quot;Australo-Melanesians&quot;.<br /> Matter-of-factly scholarly usage of this term in recent literature on dental morphology etc. rules out any possibility that the term is (a) derogatory, (b) non-scholarly or (c) non-notable. &quot;Australoid race&quot; is simply what this group used to be called prior to 1960 or so, before &quot;race&quot; became a politically charged word. This is no excuse to turn this page into a discussion of racial politics. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] &lt;small&gt;[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]&lt;/small&gt; 10:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The above comment that &quot;I will continue to dispute ...&quot; is a cause for great concern. Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it. You've expressed yourself in terms of your own opinion, rather than arguments from reputable sources. Please review [[Wikipedia:Core_content_policies]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 22:52, 9 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Terminological history chapter is an essay==<br /> The organisation of a chapter on terminological history is essentially an essay, based on the talk page opinion. None of the sources provide a &quot;terminological history&quot;. We need to go back to the basics with this article [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia]]. [[WP:OP]] includes &quot;any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 06:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Need to follow edit policy / Bold rewrite ==<br /> A large number of changes have been made to the material with no edit summary (see Help:Edit_summary). Edit summaries should accurately and succinctly summarize the nature of the edit. The net result has obscured understanding of what is happening to this page. It is unresponsive to the comments on the talk page. Proper use of edit summaries and talk page is critical to resolving content. We also see that the Talk page and Article page redirect to other pages, so this big change has not been taken undertaken with due care. We have a page about one thing, but still primarily discusses the other, and links elsewhere to &quot;Australoid&quot; now refer to a redirect.<br /> <br /> The article appears to be have been completely rewritten on 9-Oct, to present a unified, uncritical point of view, which ignores the discussion and analysis in the source material that refer to a range of scientific debates from various disciplines, including how terms should be used. In each of the texts referenced, there are pages suggesting caution and explaining the limited scope of the material, so to provide context for understanding the later presented information. The whole article has been vastly rewritten over a few hours. Further effort needs to be made on collaboration. The rushed manner of editing has also resulted in numerous typographical errors. The name changed, but the article content refers to the old name, without explanation. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 00:47, 10 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == References to 1939 ==<br /> If anything demonstrates the attempts to wind back current knowledge on this page, there are references being added citing [[Carlton Coon]] from 1939 who was a proponent of [[scientific racism]]. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 19:41, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> They seem to have no relation to the text, where used, so removed. [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Reliable Sources==<br /> In reference to the ancestry groups mentioned in Black, Sue; Ferguson, Eilidh (2011). Forensic Anthropology:<br /> :You changed Caucasoid to European and Mongoloid to Central Asian. This is not correct. Europeans are Caucasoid, but not all Caucasoids are European. That is a higly eurocentric claim. Arabs are not a European group, they are a West Asian Caucasoid group. Also the Central-Asian group is nonesense. Central-Asians are Turkic peoples, Iranian people, Mongolians and Russians and various other ethnolinguistic groups. They are Caucasoid and Mongoloid. Please change this back. Even the source say (Negroid, Australoid, Caucasoid and Mongolid). I agree with your other edits. [[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 20:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Wikipedia follows what is written by reliable academic sources. I compared the source and the text, and they said something totally different from each other, to the extent that the source said there were four ancestry groups, and the text said there were five. Your disagreement is with the forensic anthropologists who wrote the source, or the editor who first inserted the source. See [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 20:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Adjusting Sources==<br /> The population groups listed in the source from ''Forensic Anthropology: 2000 to 2010'' are found in the quote: &quot;There are considered to be four basic ancestry groups into which an individual can be placed by physical appearance, not accounting for admixture: the sub-Saharan African group, the European group, the Central Asian group, and the Australasian group.&quot; [[User:Travelmite|Travelmite]] ([[User talk:Travelmite|talk]]) 15:37, 6 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> :That makes no sense, and you take the quote out of context. It is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negroid. What is &quot;Central-Asian&quot;!? Central-Asians are predominantly Mongoloid with Caucasoid admixture... Your edit is highly eurocentric. It is not European... what are Arabs? What are Indians? Stop your eurocentric nonesense![[Special:Contributions/212.241.98.39|212.241.98.39]] ([[User talk:212.241.98.39|talk]]) 11:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I agree with you, 212.241.98.39. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 14:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::{{re|Scheridon}} setting aside the question of whether we use geographical origin or &quot;Caucasian&quot;, etc., the IP tried to add capoid which the source only mentions in saying that Coon tried to split Negroid into Capoid and Congoid, so that was inappropriate. But what really is inappropriate is the whole sentence, which I've removed. It doesn't add to the article and in a controversial subject which should be treated elsewhere. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 15:55, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Particularly, I consider the Khoisan peoples so different from the rest of the Sub-Saharan African peoples, but it seems that only Carleton Coon has considered Khoisan as a distinct human group. [[User:Scheridon|Scheridon]] ([[User talk:Scheridon|talk]]) 16:19, 10 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==POV maps==<br /> [[File:Negrito ancestry distribution.png|thumb|]] [[File:Sub Saharan African related (Negroid) ancestry.png|thumb|]]<br /> {{Ping|Joshua Jonathan}} &amp; {{Ping|Doug Weller}} - This [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/LenguaMapa User:LenguaMapa] on wikicommons (does not seem to have wikipedia account?) has been adding unreliable/unsourced maps like these on several pages. Claiming Oceanians are Africans and not East Eurasians. <br /> <br /> He guesstimates &quot;Negrotio&quot; (onge) ancestry in South Asians, and also associates it with Sub Shaharan African ancestry. Here is link to [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Negrito_ancestry_distribution.png Negrito map] talk page and [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Sub_Saharan_African_related_(Negroid)_ancestry.png Sub Sahaharan related map] talk page. I have pointed how ([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/361/6397/88#F1 McColl et al. 2018]) models East Asians as roughly 75% Onge (Andamanese)-related and 25% Tianyuan-related (fig.3) where Onge is capturing deep proxy ancestry. Similarly, Onge is also capturing deep proxy for hypothesized AASI ancestry which is poor fit for AASI as several studies have pointed out. <br /> <br /> I cited various Reich group Harvard studies pointed out Negrito and Australians descend from East Eurasian clad along with East Asians, however he won't seem to get it. <br /> <br /> :''&quot;New Guinea and Australia fit well as sister groups, with their majority ancestry component forming a clade with East Asians (with respect to western Eurasians). Onge fit as a near-trifurcation with the Australasian and East Asian lineages&quot;'' - [https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/4/889/2838774 Lipson et al. 2017]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;Deep ancestry of the indigenous hunter-gather population of India represents an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian aboriginal ancestors separated from each other.&quot;'' He also notes that East Eurasian clad spread ''&quot;From a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians&quot;'' - [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1 Narashimhan et al. 2018]<br /> <br /> :''&quot;If one of these population fits (for AASI), it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that potentially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(19)30967-5.pdf Shinde et al. 2019] <br /> <br /> While he cites Non-peer reviewed [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/101410v6.full Yuan et al. 2019] study, which has not been peer-reviewed for months. It came out last year claiming Oceanians are mix of European/Indian and African, and not Asians. There was discussion about this on Anthorogenica [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574320&amp;viewfull=1#post574320 post 1] explains why &amp; [https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?2573-New-DNA-Papers-General-Discussion-Thread&amp;p=574339&amp;viewfull=1#post574339 post 2]. It is telling why the study was not peer-rewired. <br /> <br /> Pretty much this [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6397/88/F4.large.jpg?width=800&amp;height=600&amp;carousel=1 Figure 4] based on ancient DNA will help understand East Eurasian clad and it's branching, along with this [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6476732/figure/F3/ Lipson et al 2018]<br /> <br /> Those two maps is pretty misleading, he is guesstimating &quot;negrito&quot; ancestry based on Onge proxy ancestry found in mainland Asians and also associating it with Saharan/African ancestry, when in reality Negritos branched from East Eurasian clad and share deep ancestry with all East Eurasians. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 20:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brahui_language&diff=940695193 Brahui language 2020-02-14T01:51:57Z <p>Ilber8000: RV : POV vandalism and misinterpretation of source by banned sock puppet</p> <hr /> <div>{{Short description|Dravidian language spoken by Brahui people of Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan}}<br /> {{Infobox language<br /> |name = Brahui<br /> |nativename = &lt;big&gt;{{lang|brh|براهوئی}}&lt;/big&gt;<br /> |region = [[Pakistan]], [[Iran]], [[Afghanistan]], [[Turkmenistan]]<br /> |map = Dravidische Sprachen.png<br /> |mapcaption = Brahui (far upper left) is geographically isolated from all other Dravidian languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;Parkin37&quot;/&gt;<br /> |ethnicity = [[Brahui people|Brahui]]<br /> |speakers = 3.28 million<br /> |date = 2016<br /> |ref = &lt;ref&gt;{{Cite news|url=https://www.ethnologue.com/language/brh|title=Brahui|work=Ethnologue|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> |familycolor = Dravidian<br /> |fam2 = [[Northern Dravidian languages|Northern]]<br /> |script = [[Arabic script]] ([[Nastaʿlīq]]), [[Latin script]]<br /> |iso3 = brh<br /> |glotto=brah1256<br /> |glottorefname=Brahui<br /> }}<br /> <br /> '''Brahui'''&lt;ref name=&quot;University of Balochistan&quot;/&gt; ({{IPAc-en|b|ɻ|ə|ˈ|h|uː|i}};&lt;ref&gt;{{OED|Brahui}}&lt;/ref&gt; {{lang-brh|براهوئی|links=no}}) is a [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian language]] spoken primarily by the [[Brahui people]] in the central part of [[Balochistan, Pakistan|Balochistan Province]], in [[Pakistan]] and in scattered parts of [[Iran]], [[Afghanistan]] and [[Turkmenistan]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.livemint.com/Sundayapp/lWCoIZ2K5dPycrhS1gk6nJ/A-slice-of-south-India-in-Balochistan.html|title=A slice of south India in Balochistan|date=2017-02-18}}&lt;/ref&gt; and by expatriate Brahui communities in [[Iraq]], [[Qatar]] and [[United Arab Emirates]].&lt;ref name=&quot;books.google.nl&quot;&gt;[https://books.google.com/books?id=bCkaAQAAIAAJ&amp;q=brahui+language+gulf+states&amp;dq=brahui+language+gulf+states&amp;hl=nl&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=PbCVVZSpJoO9ygPxw4SwCg&amp;ved=0CEkQ6AEwCA &quot;International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics, Volumes 36-37&quot;] department of linguistics, University of Kerala&lt;/ref&gt; It is isolated from the nearest Dravidian-speaking neighbour population of [[South India]] by a distance of more than {{convert|1500|km}}.&lt;ref name=&quot;Parkin37&quot;&gt;{{harvnb|Parkin|1989|p=37}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Kalat District|Kalat]], [[Khuzdar District|Khuzdar]], [[Mastung District|Mastung]], [[Quetta District|Quetta]], [[Bolan District|Bolan]], [[Nasirabad District|Nasirabad]] Noshki, kharan district of Balochistan Province are predominantly Brahui-speaking. Brahui is also spoken in [[Sindh]], mostly in [[Larkana]] and [[Nawabshah]] divisions.<br /> <br /> ==Distribution==<br /> Brahui is spoken in the central part of Pakistani [[Balochistan]], mainly in [[Kalat District|Kalat]], [[Khuzdar District|Khuzdar]] and [[Mastung District|Mastung]] districts, but also in smaller numbers in neighboring districts, as well as in [[Afghanistan]] which borders Pakistani Balochistan; however, many members of the ethnic group [[language attrition|no longer speak]] Brahui.&lt;ref name=&quot;Parkin37&quot;/&gt; The 2013 edition of [[Ethnologue]] reports that there are 4 million speakers of the language and primarily in the Pakistan province of Balochistan.{{citation needed|date=October 2018}} There are also an unknown very small number of expatriate Brahuis in the Arab States of the [[Persian Gulf]], Iranian Balochistan and Turkmenistan.&lt;ref name=&quot;books.google.nl&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> There is no consensus as to whether Brahui is a relatively recent language introduced into Balochistan or remnant of an older widespread Dravidian language family. According to Josef Elfenbein (1989), the most common theory is that the Brahui were part of a [[proto-Dravidian people|Dravidian]] invasion of north-western India in 3rd millennium BC, but unlike other Dravidians who migrated to the south, they remained in Sarawan and Jahlawan since before 2000 BC.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/brahui|title=BRAHUI – Encyclopaedia Iranica|last=electricpulp.com|website=www.iranicaonline.org}}&lt;/ref&gt; However, some other scholars see it as a recent migrant language to its present region. They postulate that Brahui could only have migrated to Balochistan from [[central India]] after 1000 CE. The absence of any older Iranian ([[Avestan]]) loanwords in Brahui supports this hypothesis. The main Iranian contributor to Brahui vocabulary, Balochi, is a [[Northwestern Iranian language]], and moved to the area from the west only around 1000 CE.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Witzel|1998|p=1}}, which cites {{harvnb|Elfenbein|1987}}&lt;/ref&gt; One scholar places the migration as late as the 13th or 14th century.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Sergent|1997|pp=129–130}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Dialects==<br /> There are no important dialectal differences. Jhalawani (southern, centered on [[Khuzdar]]) and Sarawani (northern, centered on [[Kalat, Pakistan|Kalat]]) dialects are distinguished by the pronunciation of *h, which is retained only in the north (Elfenbein 1997).<br /> Brahui has been influenced by the [[Iranian languages]] spoken in the area, including [[Persian language|Persian]], [[Balochi language|Balochi]] and [[Pashto]].&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Emeneau|1962}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{Page needed|date=September 2010}}<br /> <br /> ==Phonology==<br /> Brahui vowels show a partial length distinction between long {{IPA|/aː eː iː oː uː/}} and [[diphthong]]s {{IPA|/aɪ aʊ/}} and short {{IPA|/a u i/}}.<br /> <br /> Brahui consonants show patterns of retroflexion but lack the [[Aspirated consonant|aspiration]] distinctions found in surrounding languages and include several [[fricatives]] such as the [[voiceless lateral fricative]] {{IPA|[ɬ]}}, a sound not otherwise found in the region.{{sfn|Bashir|2016|p=274}}<br /> {| class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center&quot;<br /> |+<br /> Consonants<br /> ! colspan=&quot;2&quot; rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Bilabial consonant|Bilabial]]<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Labiodental consonant|Labio-&lt;br&gt;dental]]<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Dental consonant|Dental]]<br /> ! colspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Alveolar consonant|Alveolar]]<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Postalveolar consonant|Post-&lt;br&gt;alveolar]]<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Retroflex consonant|Retroflex]]<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Palatal consonant|Palatal]]<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Velar consonant|Velar]]<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Glottal consonant|Glottal]]<br /> |-<br /> !&lt;small&gt;plain&lt;/small&gt;<br /> ![[Lateral consonant|&lt;small&gt;lateral&lt;/small&gt;]]<br /> |-<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Stop consonant|Stop]]<br /> !&lt;small&gt;voiceless&lt;/small&gt;<br /> |{{IPA|p}}<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|t}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|ʈ}}<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|k}}<br /> |{{IPA|ʔ}}<br /> |-<br /> ![[Voice (phonetics)|&lt;small&gt;voiced&lt;/small&gt;]]<br /> |{{IPA|b}}<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|d}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|ɖ}}<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|ɡ}}<br /> |<br /> |-<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Affricate consonant|Affricate]]<br /> !&lt;small&gt;voiceless&lt;/small&gt;<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|t͡ʃ}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |-<br /> ![[Voice (phonetics)|&lt;small&gt;voiced&lt;/small&gt;]]<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|d͡ʒ}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |-<br /> ! rowspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Fricative consonant|Fricative]]<br /> !&lt;small&gt;voiceless&lt;/small&gt;<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|f}}<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|s}}<br /> |{{IPA|ɬ}}<br /> |{{IPA|ʃ}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|x}}<br /> |{{IPA|h}}<br /> |-<br /> ![[Voice (phonetics)|&lt;small&gt;voiced&lt;/small&gt;]]<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|z}}<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|ʒ}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|ɣ}}<br /> |<br /> |-<br /> ! colspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Nasal consonant|Nasal]]<br /> |{{IPA|m}}<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|n}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|ɳ}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |-<br /> ! colspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Approximant consonant|Approximant]]<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|l}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|j}}<br /> |{{IPA|w}}<br /> |<br /> |-<br /> ! colspan=&quot;2&quot; |[[Flap consonant|Flap]]<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|ɾ}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |{{IPA|ɽ}}<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |<br /> |}<br /> <br /> ===Stress===<br /> Stress in Brahui follows a quantity-based pattern, occurring either on the first long vowel or diphthong, or on the first syllable if all vowels are short.<br /> <br /> ==Orthography==<br /> ===Arabic script===<br /> Brahui is the only [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian language]] which is not known to have been written in a [[Brahmic scripts|Brahmi]]-based script; instead, it has been written in the [[Arabic script]] since the second half of the 20th century.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web |url=http://www.worklib.ru/dic/%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%B8/ |title=&quot;Бесписьменный язык Б.&quot; |access-date=2015-06-23 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20150623210754/http://www.worklib.ru/dic/%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%B8/ |archive-date=2015-06-23 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> In Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan, the [[Nastaʿlīq]] script is used in writing.<br /> <br /> ===Latin script===<br /> More recently, a Roman-based orthography named Brolikva (an abbreviation of ''Brahui Roman Likvar'') was developed by the Brahui Language Board of the [[University of Balochistan]] in Quetta and adopted by the newspaper [[Talár (newspaper)|Talár]].<br /> <br /> Below is the new promoted Bráhuí Báşágal Brolikva orthography:&lt;ref name=&quot;University of Balochistan&quot;&gt;{{citation|publisher=Brahui Language Board, University of Balochistan|location=Quetta|url=https://sites.google.com/site/brahuilb/home|title=Bráhuí Báşágal|date=April 2009|accessdate=2010-06-29}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {|class=&quot;wikitable&quot; style=&quot;font-size: 110%;&quot;<br /> |[[b]]<br /> |[[á]]<br /> |[[p]]<br /> |[[í]]<br /> |[[s]]<br /> |[[y]]<br /> |[[ş]]<br /> |[[v]]<br /> |[[x]]<br /> |[[e]]<br /> |[[z]]<br /> |[[ź]]<br /> |[[ģ]]<br /> |[[f]]<br /> |[[ú]]<br /> |[[m]]<br /> |[[n]]<br /> |[[l]]<br /> |[[g]]<br /> |[[c]]<br /> |[[t]]<br /> |[[ŧ]]<br /> |[[r]]<br /> |[[ŕ]]<br /> |[[d]]<br /> |[[o]]<br /> |[[đ]]<br /> |[[h]]<br /> |[[j]]<br /> |[[k]]<br /> |[[a]]<br /> |[[i]]<br /> |[[u]]<br /> |[[ń]]<br /> |[[ļ]]<br /> |}<br /> <br /> The letters with diacritics are the long vowels, post-alveolar and retroflex consonants, the voiced velar fricative and the voiceless lateral fricative.<br /> <br /> ==Endangerment==<br /> According to a 2009 [[UNESCO]] report, Brahui is one of the 27 [[languages of Pakistan]] that are facing the danger of extinction. They classify it in &quot;unsafe&quot; status, the least endangered level out of the five levels of concern (Unsafe, Definitely Endangered, Severely Endangered, Critically Endangered and Extinct).&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|Moseley|2009}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Publications===<br /> [[Talár (newspaper)|Talár]] is the first daily newspaper in the Brahui language.{{citation needed|date=October 2019}} It uses the new Roman orthography and is &quot;an attempt to standardize and develop [the] Brahui language to meet the requirements of modern political, social and scientific discourse.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;{{citation|title=Haftaí Talár|url=http://www.talarpub.tk/|publisher=Talár Publications|accessdate=2010-06-29}}{{dead link|fix-attempted=yes|date=October 2019}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> &lt;references/&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Sources==<br /> {{refbegin}}<br /> *{{Citation|title=South Asian Language Resource Center Workshop on Languages of Afghanistan and neighboring areas|date=December 2003|chapter=Brahui - Notes|first=Elena|last=Bashir|chapter-url=http://salrc.uchicago.edu/workshops/sponsored/121203/resources/brahui.pdf|accessdate=2010-06-29}}<br /> *{{Citation| last = Bashir| first = Elena L.| date = 2016| chapter = Contact and convergence. Baluchistan| editor1-last = Hock| editor1-first = Hans Henrich| editor2-last = Bashir| editor2-first = Elena L.| title = The languages and linguistics of South Asia: a comprehensive guide| series = World of Linguistics| publisher = De Gruyter Mouton| location = Berlin| isbn = 978-3-11-042715-8| pages = 271–84}}<br /> *Bray, Denys. ''The Brahui Language, an Old Dravidian Language Spoken in Parts of Baluchistan and Sind: Grammar.'' Gian Publishing House, 1986. <br /> *{{Citation|first=J. H.|last=Elfenbein|title=A Periplus of the 'Brahui Problem'|journal=Studia Iranica|volume=16|issue=2|year=1987|pages=215–233|doi=10.2143/SI.16.2.2014604}}<br /> *{{Citation|last=Emeneau|first=Murray B.|authorlink=Murray Barnson Emeneau|year=1962|title=Bilingualism and structural borrowing|journal=Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society|volume=106|issue=5|pages=430–442|jstor=985488}}<br /> *{{Citation|title=Interactive Atlas of the World's Languages in Danger|year=2009|publisher=UNESCO|editor-first=Christopher|editor-last=Moseley|url=http://www.unesco.org/culture/ich/index.php?pg=00206|oclc=435877932}}<br /> *{{Citation|first=Robert|last=Parkin|journal=Indo-Iranian Journal|doi=10.1007/BF00182435|pages=37–43|title=Some comments on Brahui kinship terminology|volume=32|issue=1|year=1989}}<br /> *{{Citation|last=Sergent|first=Bernard|authorlink=Bernard Sergent|title=Genèse de l'Inde|publisher= Bibliothèque scientifique Payot|year=1997|isbn=9782228891165|oclc=38198091}}<br /> *{{Citation|last=Witzel|first=Michael|authorlink=Michael Witzel|date=February 1998|chapter=The Languages of Harappa|chapter-url=http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~witzel/IndusLang.pdf|title=Proceedings of the Conference on the Indus Civilisation|editor-last=Kenoyer|editor-first=Jonathan Mark|location=Madison, Wisconsin}}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> {{Incubator|code= brh}}<br /> *[http://www.ijunoon.com/Brahui/ Online Brahui Dictionary]<br /> *[https://books.google.com/books?id=mrcOAAAAQAAJ&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;source=gbs_ge_summary_r&amp;cad=0#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false ''Handbook of the Birouhi language'' By Allâh Baksh (1877)]<br /> *[https://sites.google.com/site/brahuilb/home Brahui Language Board]<br /> *[https://sites.google.com/site/brahuilb/videos-1/untitledpost Bráhuí Báşágal (Brahui Alphabet)]<br /> *[https://web.archive.org/web/20080106095702/http://www.lmp.ucla.edu/Profile.aspx?LangID=207&amp;menu=004 Profile of the Brahui language]<br /> *[https://web.archive.org/web/20050421184249/http://www.southasiabibliography.de/Bibliography/Dravidian/Brahui___Birouhi/brahui___birouhi.html Partial bibliography of scholarly works on Brahui]<br /> *[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/77229/Brahui-language Britannica Brahui language]<br /> * [http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=new100&amp;morpho=0&amp;basename=new100\drv\bra&amp;first=0 Brahui basic lexicon at the Global Lexicostatistical Database]<br /> <br /> {{Dravidian languages}}<br /> {{Languages of South Asia}}<br /> {{Languages of Afghanistan}}<br /> {{Languages of Pakistan}}<br /> <br /> {{Authority control}}<br /> <br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:Brahui Language}}<br /> [[Category:Agglutinative languages]]<br /> [[Category:Dravidian languages]]<br /> [[Category:Languages of Afghanistan]]<br /> [[Category:Languages of Iran]]<br /> [[Category:Languages of Iraq]]<br /> [[Category:Languages of Turkmenistan]]<br /> [[Category:Languages of Qatar]]<br /> [[Category:Languages of Pakistan]]<br /> [[Category:Languages of Balochistan, Pakistan]]<br /> [[Category:Arabic alphabets for South Asian languages]]<br /> [[Category:Endangered languages]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brahui_people&diff=940695123 Brahui people 2020-02-14T01:51:18Z <p>Ilber8000: RV : POV vandalism and misinterpretation of source by banned sock puppet.</p> <hr /> <div>{{Infobox ethnic group<br /> |group = Brahui&lt;br/&gt;براہوئی, Baloch<br /> |image = [[File:Brahui people of Quetta.jpg |250px]]<br /> |caption = A photograph from 1910 with the caption reading &quot;Brahui of [[Quetta]]&quot;<br /> |langs = [[Brahui language|Brahui]]<br /> |rels = [[Sunni Islam]] ([[Hanafi]])<br /> |related = [[Dravidian peoples|Dravidians]]}}<br /> <br /> The '''Brahui''' ({{lang-brh|براہوئی}}) or '''Brahvi''' or '''Brohi people''', are an ethnic group of about 2.2 million people with the vast majority found in [[Balochistan (Pakistan)|Baluchistan]], [[Pakistan]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite news|url=http://www.livemint.com/Sundayapp/lWCoIZ2K5dPycrhS1gk6nJ/A-slice-of-south-India-in-Balochistan.html|title=A slice of south India in Balochistan|last=Venkatesh|first=Karthik|date=2017-02-18|work=livemint.com/|access-date=2017-12-27}}&lt;/ref&gt; They are also found in small numbers in [[Afghanistan]] and [[Iran]], where they are native, but they are also found through their diaspora in other [[Middle East]]ern states.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=fOQkpcVcd9AC&amp;pg=PT73|title=Brahuis|encyclopedia=Ethnic Groups of South Asia and the Pacific: An Encyclopedia|author=James B. Minahan|accessdate=21 November 2015|isbn=9781598846607|date=2012-08-30}}&lt;/ref&gt; They mainly occupy the area in Balochistan from [[Bolan Pass]] through the Bolan Hills to Ras Muari ([[Cape Monze]]) on the Arabian sea, separating the [[Baloch people]] of [[Balochistan]] to the west and the [[Sindhi people]] of [[Sindh]] in the east. The Brahuis are almost entirely [[Sunni Islam|Sunni Muslims]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Andrew Dalby - Hindu origin of Brahui people&quot;&gt;{{cite book|url = https://books.google.com/books?id=CnckpL8auSIC&amp;pg=PA96&amp;dq=brahui+hindu#v=onepage&amp;q=brahui%20hindu&amp;f=false| title = Dictionary of Languages: The Definitive Reference to More Than 400 Languages|publisher = Columbia University Press|accessdate = 2010-09-09|isbn = 9780231115698|date = 2004-03-01}}&lt;/ref&gt; There is a varied pattern of language use among the Brahui: some of the constituent groups predominantly speak the Dravidian [[Brahui language]], others are bilingual in [[Balochi language|Balochi]] and Brahui.<br /> <br /> ==Origins==<br /> &lt;!--The ethnonym &quot;Brahui&quot; is a very old term and a purely Dravidian one.&lt;ref name=&quot;Mikhail Sergeevich Andronov - Dravidian Brahui language&quot;&gt;{{cite book|url = https://books.google.com/books?id=K4lkAAAAMAAJ&amp;q=brahui+dravidian&amp;dq=brahui+dravidian| title = Brahui, a Dravidian language: a descriptive and comparative study|publisher = Foreign Language Study|accessdate = 2010-09-09}}&lt;/ref&gt;--&gt;<br /> The fact that other Dravidian languages only exist further south in India has led to several speculations about the origins of the Brahui. There are three hypotheses regarding the Brahui that have been proposed by academics.<br /> <br /> One theory is that the Brahui are a [[relict population]] of Dravidians, surrounded by speakers of [[Indo-Iranian languages]], remaining from a time when Dravidian was more widespread.<br /> <br /> A second theory is that they migrated to [[Baluchistan]] from inner India during the early Muslim period of the 13th or 14th centuries.&lt;ref&gt;[Sergent, ''Genèse de l'Inde'']&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The third theory says the Brahui migrated to Balochistan from [[Central India]] after 1000 AD.<br /> <br /> The absence of any older Iranian (Avestan) influence in Brahui supports this last hypothesis. The main Iranian contributor to Brahui vocabulary is a northwestern Iranian language, [[Balochi language|Baluchi]], [[Sindhi language|Sindhi]] and southeastern [[Iranian language]], [[Pashto language|Pashto]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | last1 = Elfenbein | first1 = J. H. | year = 1987 | title = A periplous of the 'Brahui problem' | url = | journal = Studia Iranica | volume = 16 | issue = 2| pages = 215–233 | doi=10.2143/si.16.2.2014604}}&lt;/ref&gt; However, the Brahui do not have higher genetic affinity with Dravidian populations in India than other neighboring Indo-Iranian Pakistanis. Pagani, et al., conclude that this shows that the Brahui, although speaking a Dravidian language, had their Dravidian genetic component completely replaced by Indo-Iranian speakers, suggesting that the Brahui are descendants of a previous relict population whose genomes were replaced when more recent Indo-Iranian speakers arrived in South Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Pagani|first=Luca|last2=Colonna|first2=Vincenza|last3=Tyler-Smith|first3=Chris|last4=Ayub|first4=Qasim|date=2017|title=An Ethnolinguistic and Genetic Perspective on the Origins of the Dravidian-Speaking Brahui in Pakistan|journal=Man in India|volume=97|issue=1|pages=267–278|issn=0025-1569|pmc=5378296|pmid=28381901}}&lt;/ref&gt; Linguistic findings and oral histories of the Brahui however say otherwise.&lt;ref&gt;Pagani (2017) states in its &quot;Conclusion&quot; that there is &quot;No historical or linguistic data support&quot; the possibility that &quot;the Brahui ancestors were Indo-European speakers, who later adopted a Dravidian language.&quot;&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | last1 = Elfenbein | first1 = Josef | year = 1987 | title = A periplus of the 'Brahui problem' | url = | journal = Studia Iranica | volume = 16 | issue = 2| pages = 215–233 | doi = 10.2143/SI.16.2.2014604 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;PP. 27, 142, Krishnamurti, Bhadriraju (2003), The Dravidian Languages, Cambridge University Press, {{ISBN|0-521-77111-0}}.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;P. 12 Origin and Spread of the Tamils By V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;P. 32 Ideology and status of Sanskrit : contributions to the history of the Sanskrit language by Jan E M Houben&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> {{Quotation|The history of the Brahui emerges from total darkness with the displacement of a shadowy Hindu dynasty in [[Kalat, Pakistan|Kalat]] called Sewa by the [[Mirwani]] Brahuis. There is a [[Mughal (tribe)|Mughal]] interlude and then Brahui ascendancy again.&lt;ref&gt;Language and linguistic area: essays By Murray Barnson Emeneau, Selected and introduced by Anwar S. Dil, Stanford University Press. Page 334&lt;/ref&gt;|sign=Murray Barnson Emeneau|source=Language and Linguistic Area: page 334}}<br /> <br /> {{Quotation|It is said that a [[Hindu]] dynasty, the [[Sewa Dynasty|Sewa]] by name, ruled over this part of the country prior to the seventh century, Kalat is still known as Kalat-i-Sewa.&lt;ref&gt;Population Census Organisation, Statistics Division, Govt. of Pakistan, 1999, 1998 district census report of Kalat Page 7.&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> <br /> ==Tribes==<br /> There are three groups of Brahui tribes. The &quot;nucleus&quot; consists of the Achmadzai, Gurguari, Iltazai, Kalandari, [[Kambrani]], Mirwari, Rodeni and the Sumalari, which altogether account for only a small proportion of the total number of Brahuis. The majority of the population is divided up between the Jhalawan Brahuis (which include the tribes of the Bizanjars, Harunis, [[Muhammad Hasni]]s, [[Mengal]]s, Siapad, Nicharis, Pandranis, Sajdis and the Zahris), and the Sarawan Brahuis (comprising the tribes of the [[Muhammad Shahi]], [[Bangulzai tribe|Bangulzai]], [[Kūrd]], [[Lehri tribe|Lahri]], [[Langov]], [[Raisani]], Rustamzai, Sarparah, Satakzai, Shahwani and Zagar-Mengal).{{sfn|Scholz|2002|p=28}}<br /> <br /> ==Language==<br /> {{Main|Brahui language}}<br /> The Brahui language is a Dravidian language, even though it is very far from South India. It is mainly spoken in the Kalat areas of [[Balochistan (Pakistan)|Balochistan]], Pakistan, and in Southern Afghanistan, as well as by an unknown very small number of expatriates in the [[Arab states of the Persian Gulf|Persian Gulf states]], [[Turkmenistan]], as well as Iranian [[Balochistan (Iran)|Balochistan]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bCkaAQAAIAAJ |title = International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics|year = 2007}}&lt;/ref&gt; It has three dialects: Sarawani (spoken in the north), Jhalawani (spoken in the southeast), and Chaghi (spoken in the northwest and west) The 2013 edition of Ethnologue reports that there are some 4.2 million speakers; 4 million live in Pakistan, mainly in the province of Balochistan. Due to its isolation, Brahui's vocabulary is only 15% Dravidian, while the remainder is dominated by [[Balochi language|Balochi]], and [[Indo-Aryan languages]] (for example, of the number names from &quot;one&quot; to &quot;ten,&quot; &quot;four&quot; through &quot;ten&quot; are borrowed from Persian). Brahui is generally written in the [[Perso-Arabic script]] and there is even a [[Latin script|Latin alphabet]] that has been developed for use with Brahui.<br /> <br /> ===Dialects===<br /> Kalat, Jhalawan, and Sarawan, with Kalat as the standard dialect.<br /> <br /> At present Brahui is spoken in [[Pakistani Balochistan]], Afghanistan, [[Turkmenistan]], [[Sindh]] and the Persian Gulf [[Arab]] states.<br /> <br /> ==Genetics==<br /> Brahuis display a variety of [[Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup|Y-DNA]] [[haplogroups]], the most important being haplogroup [[Haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA)|R1a1a-M17]](35% to 39.09%) - with its mass diffusion among populations of [[Central Asia|Central]]/[[South Asia]] and associated with the early eastern migrations of [[Indo-Iranians|Indo-Iranian]] nomads.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal|title=Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a| pmc=2987245 | pmid=19888303 | doi=10.1038/ejhg.2009.194| volume=18| issue=4 | year=2010| journal=Eur. J. Hum. Genet.| pages=479–84 | last1 = Underhill | first1 = PA | last2 = Myres | first2 = NM | last3 = Rootsi | first3 = S | last4 = Metspalu | first4 = M | last5 = Zhivotovsky | first5 = LA | last6 = King | first6 = RJ | last7 = Lin | first7 = AA | last8 = Chow | first8 = CE | last9 = Semino | first9 = O | last10 = Battaglia | first10 = V | last11 = Kutuev | first11 = I | last12 = Järve | first12 = M | last13 = Chaubey | first13 = G | last14 = Ayub | first14 = Q | last15 = Mohyuddin | first15 = A | last16 = Mehdi | first16 = SQ | last17 = Sengupta | first17 = S | last18 = Rogaev | first18 = EI | last19 = Khusnutdinova | first19 = EK | last20 = Pshenichnov | first20 = A | last21 = Balanovsky | first21 = O | last22 = Balanovska | first22 = E | last23 = Jeran | first23 = N | last24 = Augustin | first24 = DH | last25 = Baldovic | first25 = M | last26 = Herrera | first26 = RJ | last27 = Thangaraj | first27 = K | last28 = Singh | first28 = V | last29 = Singh | first29 = L | last30 = Majumder | first30 = P | last31 = Rudan | first31 = P | last32 = Primorac | first32 = D | last33 = Villems | first33 = R | last34 = Kivisild | first34 = T}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|title=Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in Pakistan| pmc=447589 | pmid=11898125 | doi=10.1086/339929| volume=70| issue=5 | date=May 2002| journal=Am. J. Hum. Genet.| pages=1107–24 | last1 = Qamar | first1 = R | last2 = Ayub | first2 = Q | last3 = Mohyuddin | first3 = A |display-authors=et al}}&lt;/ref&gt; Haplogroup [[Haplogroup J (Y-DNA)|J]], which is found among other [[South Asian]] peoples and more typical of Near-Eastern populations occurs at 28%.&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;https&quot;&gt;{{cite journal|title=Polarity and Temporality of High-Resolution Y-Chromosome Distributions in India Identify Both Indigenous and Exogenous Expansions and Reveal Minor Genetic Influence of Central Asian Pastoralists| pmc=1380230 | pmid=16400607 | doi=10.1086/499411| volume=78| issue=2 | date=February 2006| journal=Am. J. Hum. Genet.| pages=202–21 | last1 = Sengupta | first1 = S | last2 = Zhivotovsky | first2 = LA | last3 = King | first3 = R |display-authors=et al}}&lt;/ref&gt; Other, relatively minor, low-frequency haplogroups among the Brahui are those of [[Haplogroup G (Y-DNA)|G]], [[haplogroup L (Y-DNA)|L]], [[Haplogroup E1b1a (Y-DNA)|E1b1a]], and [[Haplogroup N (Y-DNA)|N]].&lt;ref name=&quot;ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;https&quot;/&gt; These haplogroups show that the Brahui population genetics are largely indistinguishable from those of Indo-Iranian speakers which are adjacent to them, like the Balochi and Makrani, but different from those further away, such as Sindhi.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Quintana-Murci et al. (2004), the Brahui population has a high prevalence (55%) of western Eurasian mtDNAs and the lowest frequency in the region (21%) of [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|haplogroup M]]*, which is common (∼60%) among the Dravidian-speaking Indians. So the possibility of the Dravidian presence in Baluchistan originating from recent entry of Dravidians of India should be excluded. It also shows their maternal gene pool is similar to Indo-Iranian speakers. The present Brahui population may have originated from ancient Indian Dravidian-speakers who may have relocated to Baluchistan and admixed with locals; however, no historical record supports this. So it is suggested that they are the last northern survivors of a larger Dravidian-speaking region before Indo-Iranian arrived. This would, if true, reinforce the [[Elamo-Dravidian languages|proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Quintana-Murci|first=Lluís|last2=Chaix|first2=Raphaëlle|last3=Wells|first3=R. Spencer|last4=Behar|first4=Doron M.|last5=Sayar|first5=Hamid|last6=Scozzari|first6=Rosaria|last7=Rengo|first7=Chiara|last8=Al-Zahery|first8=Nadia|last9=Semino|first9=Ornella|date=May 2004|title=Where West Meets East: The Complex mtDNA Landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian Corridor|url=https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(07)64352-3?code=ajhg-site|journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics|language=English|volume=74|issue=5|pages=827–845|doi=10.1086/383236|pmid=15077202|issn=0002-9297|pmc=1181978}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==Bibliography==<br /> *{{Cite book| last = Scholz| first = Fred| title = Nomadism &amp; colonialism : a hundred years of Baluchistan, 1872-1972| date = 2002| orig-year = 1974| location = Karachi; Oxford; New York|publisher = Oxford University Press| isbn = 978-0-19-579638-4| ref = harv}}<br /> *{{cite journal |last1=Qamar|first1=Raheel|last2=Ayub|first2=Qasim|last3=Mohyuddin|first3=Aisha|last4=Helgason|first4=Agnar|last5=Kehkashan|first5=Mazhar|last6=Atika|first6=Mansoor|last7=Zerjal|first7=Tatjana|last8=Tyler-Smith|first8=Chris|last9=Mehdi|first9=S. Qasim |title=Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in Pakistan|journal=American Journal of Human Genetics |date=2002-03-15|volume=70|issue=5|pages=1107–1124|doi=10.1086/339929|pmid=11898125 |pmc=447589}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> {{Commons category|Brahui}}<br /> {{EB1911 poster|Brahui}}<br /> *[http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/brahui Brahui people] at Encyclopædia Iranica<br /> <br /> {{Ethnic groups in Afghanistan}}<br /> {{Ethnic groups in Pakistan}}<br /> <br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:Brahui People}}<br /> [[Category:Brahui people|*]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in Afghanistan]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in Pakistan]]<br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Social groups of Balochistan, Pakistan]]<br /> [[Category:Dravidian peoples|*]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Ilber8000&diff=940688489 User:Ilber8000 2020-02-14T01:04:35Z <p>Ilber8000: </p> <hr /> <div>Hello.<br /> [[File:Candi Sewu viewed from the south, 23 November 2013.jpg|290px|thumb|right|]]<br /> <br /> I enjoy learning about history &amp; archaeology, I mostly contribute to Wikipedia on these subjects. I edit art &amp; culture related topics from [[User:Vikandy|Vickandy]].<br /> <br /> {{User:J.P.Lon/Userboxes/Human-prehistory}}{{Template:User history}}{{User:A. Pseudonym/UBX/Archaeology}}</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vedda&diff=940687241 Vedda 2020-02-14T00:56:19Z <p>Ilber8000: RV : There is no consensus on adding genomic studies to South Asian ethnic group pages outside Indo-Aryan migration, Dravidian peoples and Peopling of India. ~~~~</p> <hr /> <div>{{distinguish|Vedic people|Venda people}} <br /> {{Redirect|Veddas|the language|Vedda language|articles with similar titles|Veda (disambiguation)}}<br /> {{cleanup reorganize|date=March 2017}}<br /> {{Infobox ethnic group<br /> | group = Vedda<br /> | image = [[File:Vedda Chief Uruwarige Wannila Aththo.jpg|270px]]<br /> | image_caption = Vedda man, Sri Lanka.<br /> | population = Between '''2,500 - 6,600'''&lt;ref&gt;http://www.encyclopedia.com/places/asia/sri-lankan-political-geography/vedda&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=ved&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;br/&gt; (less than 0.20% of the population) (2001)&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book |title=The Portuguese Cultural Imprint on Sri Lanka |last=Jayasuriya |first=S. de Silva |publisher=Lusotopie 2000 |year=2000 |isbn= |pages=255}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | regions = Sri Lanka {{nbsp|6}} 2,500 (2002)<br /> | region1 = [[Badulla District]]<br /> | pop1 = <br /> | ref1 = <br /> | region2 = [[Polonnaruwa District]]<br /> | languages = [[Vedda language|Vedda]], [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]], [[Sri Lankan Tamil dialects|Sri Lankan Tamil]]<br /> | religions = Traditional animistic beliefs with [[Buddhism]], [[Hinduism]]&lt;ref&gt;http://www.encyclopedia.com/places/asia/sri-lankan-political-geography/vedda&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | related = [[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]]<br /> | footnotes = <br /> | native_name = <br /> | native_name_lang = <br /> }}<br /> <br /> The '''Vedda''' ({{lang-si|වැද්දා}} {{IPA-si|ˈvædːaː|}}, {{lang-ta|வேடர்}} ''Vēdar'') or '''Wanniyalaeto'''&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.shh.mpg.de/906627/forest-reliance-sri-lanka|title=Evidence for persistent forest reliance by Indigenous peoples in historical Sri Lanka|website=www.shh.mpg.de|language=en|access-date=2020-02-08}}&lt;/ref&gt; are a minority indigenous group of people in [[Sri Lanka]] who, among other sub-communities such as [[Coast Veddas]], [[Anuradhapura Veddas]] and Bintenne Veddas,&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://www.encyclopedia.com/places/asia/sri-lankan-political-geography/vedda|title=Vedda facts, information, pictures {{!}} Encyclopedia.com articles about Vedda|website=www.encyclopedia.com|language=en|access-date=2017-09-18}}&lt;/ref&gt; are accorded indigenous status. The Vedda minority in Sri Lanka is in threat of becoming completely assimilated.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web | url=http://chandlersfordtoday.co.uk/sri-lanka-ancient-vedda-tribe-becoming-extinct/ |title = Vedda tribe becoming extinct, Chandler's Ford Today|date = 2014-09-06}}&lt;/ref&gt; Most speak [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]] instead of their indigenous languages which are nearing extinction. It has been hypothesized that the Vedda were probably the earliest inhabitants of [[Sri Lanka]] and have lived on the island since before the arrival of other ethnic groups in India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web | url=http://www.sundaytimes.lk/140126/plus/race-in-sri-lanka-what-genetic-evidence-tells-us-80911.html |title = Race in Sri Lanka: What genetic evidence tells us &amp;#124; the Sundaytimes Sri Lanka}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal |doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.112|pmid = 24196378|title = Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: Their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations|journal = Journal of Human Genetics|volume = 59|issue = 1|pages = 28–36|year = 2014|last1 = Ranaweera|first1 = Lanka|last2 = Kaewsutthi|first2 = Supannee|last3 = Win Tun|first3 = Aung|last4 = Boonyarit|first4 = Hathaichanoke|last5 = Poolsuwan|first5 = Samerchai|last6 = Lertrit|first6 = Patcharee}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Veddas are also mentioned in [[Robert Knox (sailor)|Robert Knox]]'s history of his captivity by the King of [[Kandy]] in the 17th century. Knox described them as &quot;wild men&quot;, but also said there was a &quot;tamer sort&quot;, and that the latter sometimes served in the king's army.&lt;ref&gt;Knox, Robert [1681] (1981). A Historical Relation of Ceylon. Tisara Prakasakayo Ltd (page 195).&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The Ratnapura District, which is part of the [[Sabaragamuwa Province]], is known to have been inhabited by the Veddas in the distant past. This has been shown by scholars like [[Nandadeva Wijesekera]]. The very name ''Sabaragamuwa'' is believed to have meant the village of the ''Sabaras'' or &quot;forest barbarians&quot;. Place-names such as ''Vedda-gala'' (Vedda Rock), ''Vedda-ela'' (Vedda Canal) and ''Vedi-Kanda'' (Vedda Mountain) in the Ratnapura District also bear testimony to this. As Wijesekera observes, a strong Vedda element is discernible in the population of ''Vedda-gala'' and its environs.<br /> <br /> == Etymology ==<br /> Ethnonyms of Vedda include Vadda, Veddah, Veddha and Vaddo.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://www.encyclopedia.com/places/asia/sri-lankan-political-geography/vedda|title=Vedda facts, information, pictures {{!}} Encyclopedia.com articles about Vedda|website=www.encyclopedia.com|language=en|access-date=2017-09-18}}&lt;/ref&gt; &quot;Vedda&quot; is either a [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] word and stems from [[Tamil language|Tamil]] word ''Vēdu'' meaning ''hunting,''&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|url=https://books.google.com/?id=AtdjAAAAMAAJ&amp;q=vedda+etymology+hunter+tamil&amp;dq=vedda+etymology+hunter+tamil|title=Knox's Words: A Study of the Words of Sri Lankan Origin Or Association First Used in English Literature by Robert Knox and Recorded in the Oxford English Dictionary|last=Boyle|first=Richard|date=2004|publisher=Visidunu Publication|isbn=9789559170679|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=http://agarathi.com/word/%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%87%E0%AE%9F%E0%AE%A9%E0%AF%8D|title=வேடன் {{!}} அகராதி {{!}} Tamil Dictionary|last=|first=|date=|website=agarathi.com|publisher=University of Madras Lexicon|others=|access-date=2017-09-18}}&lt;/ref&gt; or from [[Sanskrit]] vyādha (&quot;hunter&quot;) or veddhṛ (&quot;the one who pierces&quot;).&lt;ref&gt;Wilhelm Geiger: ''An Etymological Glossary of the Sinhalese Language.'' Colombo 1941&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Language==<br /> {{Main article|Vedda language}}<br /> [[File:Tisahamy Aththo (Vedda Chief).jpg|left|upright|thumb|Most prominent Vedda chief late '''Tisahamy Aththo'''.]]<br /> [[File:Tisahamy Aththo with Some Vedda Women.jpg|left|upright|thumb|Tisahamy Aththo with Some Vedda Women.]]<br /> [[File:Important locations of Anuradhapura Kingdom.png|thumb|right|[[Malaya Rata]] was the historical center of the [[Vedda language]], a [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]]-based creole.]]<br /> The original language of the Veddas is the [[Vedda language]], which today is used primarily by the interior Veddas of [[Dambana, Sri Lanka|Dambana]]. Communities such as Coast Veddas and Anuradhapura Veddas, who do not identify themselves strictly as Veddas, also use Vedda language for communication during hunting and or for religious chants.{{citation needed|date=March 2017}} When a systematic field study was conducted in 1959 it was determined that the language was confined to the older generation of Veddas from Dambana. In the 1990s, self-identifying Veddas knew few words and phrases in the Vedda language, but there were individuals who knew the language comprehensively. Initially, there was considerable debate among [[linguists]] as to whether Vedda is a dialect of [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]] or an independent language. Later studies indicate that it diverged from its parent stock in the 10th century and became a [[Creole languages|Creole]] and a stable independent language by the 13th century, under the influence of [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]].<br /> <br /> The parent Vedda language(s) is of unknown [[Genetic (linguistics)|genetic origins]], while Sinhala is of the [[Indo-Aryan languages|Indo-Aryan]] branch of [[Indo-European languages]]. [[Phonology|Phonologically]] it is distinguished from Sinhala by the higher frequency of [[palatal]] sounds C and J. The effect is also heightened by the addition of [[animacy|inanimate]] [[suffixes]]. Vedda language word class is [[Morphology (linguistics)|morphologically]] divided into [[nouns]], [[verbs]] and variables with unique [[grammatical gender|gender distinctions]] inanimate nouns. Per its Creole tradition, it has reduced and simplified many forms of Sinhala such as second person [[pronouns]] and denotations of negative meanings. Instead of borrowing new words from Sinhala, Vedda created combinations of words from a limited lexical stock. Vedda also maintains many [[Archaism|archaic]] Sinhala terms prior to the 10th to 12th centuries, as a [[relict]] of its close contact with Sinhala. Vedda also retains a number of unique words that cannot be derived from Sinhala. Likewise, Sinhala has also borrowed from the original Vedda language, words, and grammatical structures, differentiating it from its related Indo-Aryan languages. Vedda has exerted a [[substratum]] influence in the formation of Sinhala.<br /> <br /> Veddas that have adopted [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]] are found primarily in the southeastern part of the country, especially in the vicinity of Bintenne in [[Uva Province]]. There are also Veddas that have adopted Sinhala who live in Anuradhapura District in the North Central Province.&lt;ref name=&quot;Brow&quot;&gt;Brow, James (1978). Vedda Villages of Anuradhapura. University of Washington Press.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=Nira&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2010/07/sri-lankas-conflict-culture-and.html|title=Sri Lanka's conflict: culture and lineages of the past|authorlink=Nira Wickramasinghe|author=Nira Wickramasinghe| publisher=Sri Lanka Guardian|accessdate=Feb 20, 2016}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Another group, often termed [[East Coast Veddas]], is found in coastal areas of the Eastern Province, between [[Batticaloa]] and [[Trincomalee]]. These Veddas have adopted [[Tamil language|Tamil]] as their mother tongue.&lt;ref name=&quot;vedda.org&quot;&gt;[http://vedda.org/coastal-veddas.htm Sri Lanka's coastal Vedda indigenous communities&lt;!-- Bot generated title --&gt;]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://vedda.org/seligmann-coastal-veddas.htm East Coast Veddas]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Cultural aspects==<br /> <br /> ===Language===<br /> {{main article|Vedda language}}<br /> The parent of Vedda language is of unknown [[Genetic (linguistics)|linguistic origin]] and is considered a [[language isolate]]. Early linguists and observers of the language considered it to be either a separate language or a dialect of Sinhala. The chief proponent of the dialect theory was [[Wilhelm Geiger]], but he also contradicted himself by claiming that Vedda was a [[Relexification|relexified]] aboriginal language.&lt;ref name=V227&gt;{{Harvnb|Van Driem|2002|page=227}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Veddas consider the Vedda language to be distinct from Sinhala and use it as an ethnic marker to differentiate them from Sinhalese people.&lt;ref name=D81&gt;{{Harvnb|Dharmadasa|1974|page=81}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Religion===<br /> <br /> The original religion of Veddas is [[animism]]. The Sinhalized interior Veddahs follow a mix of animism and nominal [[Buddhism]]; whereas the Tamilized east coast Veddahs follow a mix of animism and nominal [[Hinduism]] due to [[Brahminical]] [[Sanskritisation|sanskritisation]], which is known as [[folk Hinduism]] among anthropologists.<br /> <br /> One of the most distinctive features of Vedda religion is the worship of dead ancestors, who are called &quot;nae yaku&quot; among the Sinhala-speaking Veddas and are invoked for the game and [[Yam (vegetable)|yam]]s.&lt;ref&gt;Seligmann, Charles and Brenda (1911). The Veddas. Cambridge University Press (pages 123-135).&lt;/ref&gt; There are also peculiar deities unique to Veddas, such as &quot;Kande Yakka&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;&quot;Seligmann&quot;, Charles and Brenda (1911). The Veddas. Cambridge University Press (pages 30-31).&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Veddas, along with the Island's [[Buddhist]], [[Hindu]] and [[Muslim]] communities, venerate the temple complex situated at [[Kataragama]], showing the [[syncretism]] that has evolved over 2,000 years of coexistence and assimilation. Kataragama is supposed to be the site where the Hindu god Skanda or [[Murugan]] in [[Tamil language|Tamil]] met and married a local tribal girl, [[Valli]], who in Sri Lanka is believed to have been a Vedda.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kataragama&quot;&gt;[http://kataragama.org The Kataragama-Skanda website]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> There are a number of less famous [[shrine]]s across the island which are sacred to the Veddas as well as to other communities.&lt;ref name=&quot;Kataragama&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Rituals===<br /> [[File:Coastal-1.jpeg|thumb|right|A traditional Vedda settlement on the coast.]]<br /> Vedda marriage is a simple ceremony. It consists of the bride tying a bark rope (''Diya lanuva'') that she has twisted, around the waist of the groom. This symbolizes the bride's acceptance of the man as her mate and life partner. Although [[endogamous]] marriage between cross-cousins was the norm until recently, this has changed significantly, with Vedda women even contracting marriages with their Sinhalese and Moor neighbors.<br /> <br /> [[File:Veddah ritual.jpg|thumb|A Veddah ritual about to be performed]]<br /> In Vedda society, women are in many respects men's equals. They are entitled to similar inheritance. Monogamy is the general rule, though a widow would frequently marry her husband's brother as a means of support and consolation ([[levirate marriage]]). They also do not practice a [[caste]] system.&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.scenicsrilanka.com/vadda-of-sri-lanka.html Vadda of Sri Lanka]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Death, too, is a simple affair without ostentatious funeral ceremonies where the corpse of the deceased is promptly buried.<br /> <br /> ===Burial===<br /> [[File: Kataragama entrance.jpg|thumb|right|Main entrance of the inner complex of Kataragama temple, Sri Lanka.]]<br /> Since the opening of colonization schemes, Vedda burials changed when they dug graves of 4–5 feet deep and wrapped the body wrapped cloth and covered it with leaves and earth. The Veddas also laid the body between the scooped out trunks of the ''gadumba'' tree before they buried it. At the head of the grave were kept three open coconuts and a small bundle of wood, while at its foot were kept an opened coconut and an untouched coconut. Certain cactus species ''(pathok)'' were planted at the head, the middle and the foot. Personal possessions like the bow and arrow, betel pouch, were also buried. This practice varied by community. The contents of the betel pouch of the deceased were eaten after his death.<br /> ===Cult of the dead===<br /> The Veddas practice a cult of the dead. They worshipped and made incantations to their ''Nae Yakka'' (Relative Spirit) followed by another customary ritual (called the ''Kiri Koraha'') which is still in vogue among the surviving Gam Veddas of Rathugala, Pollebedda Dambana and the Henanigala Vedda re-settlement (in Mahaweli systems off Mahiyangane).<br /> <br /> They believed that the spirit of their dead would haunt them bringing forth diseases and calamity. To appease the dead spirit they invoke the blessings of the Nae Yakka and other spirits, like ''Bilinda Yakka, Kande Yakka'' followed by the dance ritual of the ''Kiri Koraha''.&lt;ref&gt;[http://amazinglanka.com/wp/prehistoric-sites-of-sri-lanka/ Prehistoric timeline of Sri Lanka] - amazinglanka.com Accessed 2015-12-5&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ''According to Sarasin Cousins (in 1886) and Seligmann's book - 'The Veddas' (1910).''<br /> <br /> &quot;When man or woman dies from sickness, the body is left in the cave or rock shelter where the death took place, the body is not washed or dressed or ornamented in any way, but is generally allowed to be in the natural supine position and is covered with leaves and branches. This was formerly the universal custom and still persists among the less sophisticated Veddas who sometimes in addition place a large stone upon the chest for which no reason could be given, this is observed at Sitala Wanniya (off Polle-bedda close to Maha Oya), where the body is still covered with branches and left where the death occurred.&quot;<br /> <br /> ===Clothing===<br /> [[File:Mankerny family 2006.jpg|thumb|right|Vedda villagers from Mankery in [[Batticaloa district]] wearing sarongs and other traditional attire.]]<br /> Until fairly recent times, the raiment of the Veddas was remarkably scanty. In the case of men, it consisted only of a [[loincloth]] suspended with a string at the waist, while in the case of women, it was a piece of cloth that extended from the navel to the knees. Today, however, Vedda attire is more covering, men wear a short [[sarong]] extending from the waist to the knees, while the women clad themselves in a garment similar to the [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]] ''diya-redda'' which extends from the breast line to the knees.<br /> <br /> ===Music===<br /> <br /> {{organize section|date=March 2017}}<br /> <br /> ''Bori Bori Sellam-Sellam Bedo Wannita,''<br /> <br /> ''Palletalawa Navinna-Pita Gosin Vetenne,''<br /> <br /> ''Malpivili genagene-Hele Kado Navinne,''<br /> <br /> ''Diyapivili Genagene-Thige Bo Haliskote Peni,''<br /> <br /> ''Ka tho ipal denne''<br /> <br /> (A Vedda honeycomb cutter's folk song)<br /> <br /> Meaning of this song - The bees from yonder hills of Palle Talawa and Kade suck nectar from the flowers and made the honeycomb. So why should you give them undue pain when there is no honey by cutting the honeycomb.<br /> <br /> ==Livelihood==<br /> [[File:Veddah.jpg|thumb|right|180px|A Veddah hunter with bow and arrow.]]<br /> Veddas were originally [[hunter-gatherer]]s. They used bows and arrows to hunt game, harpoons and toxic plants for fishing and gathered wild plants, yams, honey, fruit and nuts.&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.survivalinternational.org/tribes/wanniyala Survival international - Wanniyala-Aetto]&lt;/ref&gt; Many Veddas also farm, frequently using [[slash and burn]] or swidden cultivation, which is called &quot;chena&quot; in Sri Lanka. East Coast Veddas also practice sea fishing. Veddas are famously known for their rich meat diet. Venison and the flesh of rabbit, turtle, tortoise, monitor lizard, wild boar and the common brown monkey are consumed with much relish. The Veddas kill only for food and do not harm young or pregnant animals. Game is commonly shared amongst the family and clan. Fish are caught by employing fish poisons such as the juice of the ''pus-vel'' (Entada scandens) and ''daluk-kiri'' (Cactus milk).<br /> [[File:Vedar bow and harpoon.gif|thumb|left|60px|Traditional Vedda bow and fishing harpoon.]]<br /> Vedda culinary fare is also deserving of mention. Amongst the best known are ''gona perume'', which is a sort of sausage containing alternate layers of meat and fat, and ''goya-tel-perume'', which is the tail of the monitor lizard (talagoya), stuffed with fat obtained from its sides and roasted in embers. Another Vedda delicacy is dried meat preserve soaked in honey. In the olden days, the Veddas used to preserve such meat in the hollow of a tree, enclosing it with clay.<br /> [[File:Equipment used.jpg|thumb|some of the bows used by the veddahs]]<br /> <br /> Such succulent meat served as a ready food supply in times of scarcity. The early part of the year (January–February) is considered to be the season of yams and mid-year (June–July) that of fruit and honey, while hunting is availed of throughout the year. Nowadays, more and more Vedda folk have taken to ''Chena'' (slash and burn) cultivation. ''Kurakkan'' [[Eleusine coracana]] is cultivated very often. Maize, yams, gourds and melons are also cultivated. In the olden days, the dwellings of the Veddas consisted of caves and rock shelters. Today, they live in unpretentious huts of wattle, daub and thatch.<br /> <br /> In the reign of King Datusena (6th century CE) the Mahaweli ganga was diverted at Minipe in the Minipe canal nearly 47 miles long said to be constructed with help from the Yakkas. The Mahawamsa refers to the canal as Yaka-bendi-ela. When the Ruwanweli Seya was built in King Dutugemunu's time (2nd century BCE) the Veddas procured the necessary minerals from the jungles.<br /> <br /> King Parakrama Bahu the great (12th century) in his war against the rebels employed these Veddas as scouts.<br /> <br /> In the reign of King Rajasinghe II (17th century) in his battle with the Dutch he had a Vedda regiment. In the abortive Uva-Welessa revolt of 1817-1818 of the British times, led by Keppetipola Disawe, the Veddas too fought with the rebels against the British forces.<br /> <br /> ==Current status==<br /> {{Historical populations<br /> |type = <br /> |footnote = Source:[[Department of Census &amp; Statistics, Sri Lanka|Department of Census&lt;br&gt;&amp; Statistics]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|title=Population by ethnic group, census years|url=http://www.statistics.gov.lk/abstract2010/chapters/Chap2/AB2-10.pdf|publisher=Department of Census &amp; Statistics, Sri Lanka|accessdate=23 October 2012|url-status=dead|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20111113175023/http://www.statistics.gov.lk/abstract2010/chapters/Chap2/AB2-10.pdf|archivedate=13 November 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;br&gt;Data is based on &lt;br&gt;[[Sri Lankan Government]] Census.<br /> |1881 | 2200<br /> |1891 | 1200<br /> |1901 | 4000<br /> |1911 | 5300<br /> |1921 | 4500<br /> |1931 | 5200<br /> |1946 | 2400<br /> |1953 | 800<br /> |1963 | 400<br /> |1971 | <br /> |1981 | <br /> |1989 (est.) | <br /> |2001 | <br /> |2011 | <br /> }}<br /> <br /> Some observers have said Veddas are disappearing and have lamented the decline of their distinct culture.&lt;ref name=Nira/&gt;&lt;ref name=UN&gt;[http://vedda.org/wanniyalaeto-un.htm Address of Warige Wanniya to the UN], vedda.org Retrieved 4-12-2015&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Spittel, R.L. (1950). Vanished Trails: The Last of the Veddas. Oxford University Press.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://vimeo.com/45950118 Difficulties faced by our original inhabitants]&lt;/ref&gt; Land acquisition for mass irrigation projects, government forest reserve restrictions, and the civil war have disrupted traditional Vedda ways of life.&lt;ref name=Nira/&gt;&lt;ref name=UN/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbO0id6g0NQ Deforestation, farming and encroachment on to their forests (3:10min)]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ae4JoWqWkU The plea of the great chief - Vanniatho speaks (1:40min)]&lt;/ref&gt; Between 1977 and 1983 under the Accelerated [[Mahaweli Development programme|Mahaweli Development Project]] and colonization schemes, approximately 51468 hectares were turned into a gigantic hydroelectric dam irrigation project.&lt;ref name=UN/&gt;&lt;ref name=passports&gt;[http://vedda.org/wanniyalaeto.htm Sri Lanka's Indigenous Wanniya-laeto: A Case History], vedda.org Retrieved 4-12-2015&lt;/ref&gt; Subsequently, the creation of the [[Maduru Oya National Park]] deprived the Veddhas their last hunting grounds.&lt;ref name=passports/&gt; In 1985, the Veddha Chief Thissahamy and his delegation were obstructed from attending the United Nations [[Working Group on Indigenous Populations]].&lt;ref name=passports/&gt; Dr. Wiveca Stegeborn, an [[anthropologist]], has been studying the Vedda since 1977 and alleges that their young women are being tricked into accepting contracts to the [[Middle East]] as [[domestic worker]]s when in fact they will be [[human trafficking|trafficked]] into [[prostitution]] or sold as [[sex slaves]].&lt;ref&gt;http://gender-policy.tripod.com/backissues/March01.html#Article%20Two&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> However, [[cultural assimilation]] of Veddas with other local populations has been going on for a long time. &quot;Vedda&quot; has been used in Sri Lanka to mean not only hunter-gatherers but also to refer to any people who adopt an unsettled and rural way of life and thus can be a [[derogatory]] term not based on ethnic group. Thus, over time, it is possible for non-Vedda groups to become Veddas, in this broad cultural sense.&lt;ref&gt;Brow, James (1978). Vedda Villages of Anuradhapura. University of Washington Press (page 34).&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{webarchive |url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130217140154/www.artsrilanka.org/essays/vaddaprimitivism/index.html |date= February 17, 2013 |title=Obeyesekere, Gananath. Colonial Histories and Vadda Primitivism}}&lt;/ref&gt; Vedda populations of this kind are increasing in some districts.&lt;ref&gt;Brow, James (1978). Vedda Villages of Anuradhapura. University of Washington Press (page 3).&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Zoology==<br /> A spider genus endemic to Sri Lanka was named ''[[Wanniyala]]'' as a dedication to Sri Lanka's oldest civilized people.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | url=http://www.pholcidae.de/PDFs/sri_lanka_2005.pdf | title=The pholcid spiders from Sri Lanka: redescription of Pholcus ceylonicus and description of a new genus | publisher=pholcidae.de | accessdate=6 May 2016}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==See also==<br /> *[[South Asian ethnic groups]]<br /> *[[Charles Gabriel Seligman]]<br /> *The United Nations [[Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples]]<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{Commons category|Veddas|Vedda people}}{{reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==Further reading==<br /> ''The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Hunters and Gatherers'', editor Richard B. Lee.<br /> ({{ISBN|978-0-521-60919-7}} | {{ISBN|0-521-60919-4}})<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> A great deal of information on them can be found at [http://vedda.org Vedda.org]<br /> * [http://www.survival-international.org/tribes.php?tribe_id=59 Survival International profile on the Wanniyala-Aetto]<br /> * [http://www.srilankareference.org/srilankahistory/thammanna.htm Sri Lankan history]<br /> * [http://www.lankalibrary.com/cul/veddha/veddha_1.htm Veddas - now only a household name]<br /> * [http://www.island.lk/index.php?page_cat=article-details&amp;page=article-details&amp;code_title=32048# Veddas of Sri Lanka]<br /> * [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu3y9sHBWBs Last of the Devil Dancers]<br /> <br /> {{Ethnic groups in Sri Lanka}}<br /> {{Indigenous peoples by continent}}<br /> <br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:Vedda People}}<br /> [[Category:Vedda|*]]<br /> [[Category: Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category: Ethnic groups in Sri Lanka]]<br /> [[Category: Ethnic groups in the Indian Ocean]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ilber8000&diff=940686939 User talk:Ilber8000 2020-02-14T00:54:19Z <p>Ilber8000: </p> <hr /> <div>== Ilber8000, you are invited to the Teahouse! ==<br /> <br /> <br /> {| style=&quot;margin: 1em 4em;&quot;<br /> |- valign=&quot;top&quot;<br /> | [[File:WP teahouse logo 2.png|alt=Teahouse logo|link=w:en:WP:Teahouse|File:WP teahouse logo 2.png by User:Heatherawalls, licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0]]<br /> | &lt;div style=&quot;background-color:#f4f3f0; color: #393D38; padding: 0.4em 1em;border-radius:10px; font-size: 1.1em;&quot;&gt;<br /> Hi '''Ilber8000'''! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. &lt;br /&gt;Be our guest at [[w:WP:teahouse|the Teahouse]]! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from experienced editors like {{noping|Soni}} ([[User_talk:Soni|talk]]).<br /> <br /> &lt;div class=&quot;submit ui-button ui-widget ui-state-default ui-corner-all ui-button-text-only&quot; role=&quot;button&quot; aria-disabled=&quot;false&quot; style=&quot;float: left;&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;ui-button-text&quot;&gt;[[WP:Teahouse|Visit the Teahouse]]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;div style=&quot;text-align:right;&quot;&gt;We hope to see you there!<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;Delivered by {{noping|HostBot}} on behalf of the [[WP:Teahouse/Hosts|Teahouse hosts]]&lt;/small&gt; <br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;16:03, 6 June 2016 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/div&gt;<br /> &lt;/div&gt; <br /> |}<br /> [[Category:Wikipedians who have received a Teahouse invitation]]&lt;!-- Template:Teahouse_HostBot_Invitation --&gt;<br /> ==Welcome!==<br /> <br /> [[Image:Chocolate chip cookies.jpg|thumb|300px|Some cookies to welcome you! [[File:Face-smile.svg|25px]]]] [[Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia|Welcome to Wikipedia]], Ilber8000! Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/Ilber8000|your contributions]]. I am [[User:Chiswick Chap|Chiswick Chap]] and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on [[User talk:Chiswick Chap|my talk page]]. You can also check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]] or type {{tlx|help me}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:<br /> * [[Wikipedia:Introduction|Introduction]]<br /> * [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|The five pillars of Wikipedia]]<br /> * [[Help:Editing|How to edit a page]]<br /> * [[Help:Contents|Help pages]]<br /> * [[Wikipedia:Article development|How to write a great article]]<br /> * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Discover what's going on in the Wikimedia community]]<br /> Also, when you post on [[Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines|talk pages]] you should [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign your name]] using four tildes (&lt;nowiki&gt;~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! [[User:Chiswick Chap|Chiswick Chap]] ([[User talk:Chiswick Chap|talk]]) 07:12, 16 June 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == IE - animated! ==<br /> <br /> [[File:Indo-European migrations.gif|thumb|Animated map of Indo-European migrations]]<br /> The last picture needs improvement, but otherwise, this is cute isn't it? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:55, 12 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> : Amazing work, it looks really good! is it based on Allentoft et al? [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000#top|talk]]) 21:29, 12 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Mostly Mallory's ''InSearch of the Indo-Europeans'' and Anthony's ''The Horse, The Wheel and Language''. I didn't know/hadn't realized, untill this week, that the western IE-languages came to western Europe through the Danube Valley, and spread, together with Baltic-Slavic, through the Corded Ware culture. It was amazing to study this map of the Balkans, with mountains and valleys, and to see how the Danube (Donau) provides a convenient avenue to Germany. I also hadn't realized that the Andronovo culture untill ca. 800 BCE, and that ''then'' the Iranian languages spread over a vast territory. Wikipedia is a wonderfull excuse to study and learn. Western gymnasia (Dutch: Gymnasium is pre-academic education, with Latin and Greek) should be turned into Indo-European schools! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:17, 13 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: A lot of studying then! is BMAC culture considered Indo-European? I thought they were non-I.E based on their material culture. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000#top|talk]]) 01:57, 14 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::The idea is that IE's took over/integrated with the BMAC in its late phase. Note that the BMAC had relations with other contemporary cultures, like the IVC. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:06, 14 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: Last image Vedic period (Indo-Aryans) geography looks very inaccurate, previous one was better (yellow highlight). Vedic periods' northern extent was Gandahara to Vidarbha in the south (around vindya ranges), it's eastern extent was up to Anga (Northern Bengal) and Western extent up to Banas &amp; Sindhu (Gujarat and Sindh). In modern terms, it included &quot;Hindi belt&quot;, Punjab, Gujarat, Sindh, Northern Bengal and Kashmir. There were no Scythian in South Asia until Middle Kingdoms of India (post-Mauryan empire), they were still in Central Asia then. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000#top|talk]]) 18:16, 15 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> [[File:Scythia-Parthia 100 BC.png|thumb|right|Distribution of Iranian peoples in 100 BCE: shown is [[Sarmatia]], [[Scythia]], [[Bactria]] and the [[Parthian Empire]]]]<br /> &quot;Very&quot; inaccurate? I just this map for the Scythians; it's the situation in ca. 100 BCE. Main point for the last map is to show how far the Iranian languages extended, and how Europe was &quot;divided&quot; in various languages after the Corded Ware. Much is missing; I'd love to make a really accurate animation, but it would tahe something like the combination of an animation studio and academic historians. I'm just one guy with an interest in religion and history... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 16 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> :But alas, I've just extended the Vedic territory. Still not perfect, but more. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:03, 16 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> I understand but we can't compare Vedic period extension to 100 BCE Scythian extension. Thank you for your efforts, it's a really good map. :) [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000#top|talk]]) 16:46, 16 December 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ArbCom 2017 election voter message ==<br /> <br /> {{Ivmbox|Hello, Ilber8000. Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2017|2017 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.<br /> <br /> The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.<br /> <br /> If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2017/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/400|voting page]]'''. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)<br /> |Scale of justice 2.svg|imagesize=40px}}<br /> &lt;!-- Message sent by User:Xaosflux@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2017/Coordination/MMS/05&amp;oldid=813459745 --&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Disambiguation link notification for April 21==<br /> <br /> Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited [[2017 in paleontology]], you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page [[Almas]] ([//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/2017_in_paleontology check to confirm]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/2017_in_paleontology?client=notify fix with Dab solver]). Such links are [[WP:INTDABLINK|usually incorrect]], since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. &lt;small&gt;(Read the [[User:DPL bot/Dablink notification FAQ|FAQ]]{{*}} Join us at the [[Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links|DPL WikiProject]].)&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these [[User:DPL bot|opt-out instructions]]. Thanks, [[User:DPL bot|DPL bot]] ([[User talk:DPL bot|talk]]) 09:20, 21 April 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ArbCom 2018 election voter message ==<br /> <br /> {{Ivmbox|Hello, Ilber8000. Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2018|2018 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.<br /> <br /> The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.<br /> <br /> If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2018/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/710|voting page]]'''. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)<br /> |Scale of justice 2.svg|imagesize=40px}}<br /> &lt;!-- Message sent by User:Cyberpower678@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2018/Coordination/MMS/05&amp;oldid=866998124 --&gt;<br /> <br /> == ArbCom 2019 election voter message ==<br /> <br /> &lt;table class=&quot;messagebox &quot; style=&quot;border: 1px solid #AAA; background: ivory; padding: 0.5em; width: 100%;&quot;&gt;<br /> &lt;tr&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;vertical-align:middle; padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;&quot;&gt;[[File:Scale of justice 2.svg|40px]]&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;Hello! Voting in the '''[[WP:ACE2019|2019 Arbitration Committee elections]]''' is now open until 23:59 on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2019|end}}-1 day}}. All '''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2019#Election_timeline|eligible users]]''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.<br /> <br /> The [[WP:ARBCOM|Arbitration Committee]] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the [[Wikipedia:Arbitration|Wikipedia arbitration process]]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose [[WP:BAN|site bans]], [[WP:TBAN|topic bans]], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy|arbitration policy]] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.<br /> <br /> If you wish to participate in the 2019 election, please review [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2019/Candidates|the candidates]] and submit your choices on the '''[[Special:SecurePoll/vote/{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2019|poll}}|voting page]]'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 00:20, 19 November 2019 (UTC)<br /> &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;<br /> &lt;/table&gt;<br /> &lt;!-- Message sent by User:Cyberpower678@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2019/Coordination/MMS/07&amp;oldid=926750474 --&gt;<br /> <br /> == Possible Sock Puppet on the [[Vedda]] page? ==<br /> <br /> An IP is currently active on the [[Vedda]] page making somewhat problematic and suspicious edits, who seems similar to a previously blocked sock puppet (who edited on South Asian topics such as [[Peopling of India]], [[Andamanese]], and I believe [[Negrito]]), whom I believe you detected previously. If you coud possibly look into this it would be much appreciated. I may also contact [[User:Doug Weller]] regarding this. Here is their recent history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/81.10.217.91<br /> (Note the - inaccurate - claim, here [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/938621558]], that the mention of 73% AASI ancestry and 27% Iranian-like ancestry in the ASI pooulation is unsourced or &quot;WP:OR&quot;, seemingly the same claim made by a blocked sock on the [[Peopling of India]] and [[Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia]] pages).<br /> Thank you. [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 18:26, 8 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> :{{ping|Skllagyook}} I have alerted mods about it. Btw, there is no consensus on adding genomic studies to South Asian ethnic group pages outside Indo-Aryan migration and Dravidian peoples. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000#top|talk]]) 00:54, 14 February 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tamils&diff=940686528 Tamils 2020-02-14T00:51:17Z <p>Ilber8000: RV : There is no consensus on adding genomic studies to South Asian ethnic group pages outside Indo-Aryan migration and Dravidian peoples</p> <hr /> <div><br /> {{short description|Ethnic group}}<br /> {{EngvarB|date=February 2015}}<br /> {{Use Indian English|date=October 2018}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=October 2019}}<br /> {{Infobox ethnic group<br /> | group = Tamils<br /> | native_name = தமிழர்<br /> | native_name_lang = ta<br /> | image =<br /> | population = '''{{Circa|76 million|lk=yes}}'''&lt;ref name=&quot;ethnologue.com&quot;&gt;{{Ethnologue19|tam|Tamil}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | region1 = {{Flag|India}}<br /> | pop1 = 69,026,881 (2011)&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.censusindia.gov.in/2011Census/Language-2011/Statement-1.pdf Statement 1 : Abstract of speakers' strength of languages and mother tongues – 2011]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | region2 = {{Flag|Sri Lanka}}<br /> | pop2 = 3,135,770 (2012)&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |title=Census of Population and Housing of Sri Lanka, 2012 – Table A3: Population by district, ethnic group and sex |url=http://www.statistics.gov.lk/PopHouSat/CPH2011/Pages/Activities/Reports/FinalReport/Population/Table%20A3.pdf |publisher=Department of Census and Statistics, Sri Lanka}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> | region3 = {{Flag|Malaysia}}<br /> | pop3 = 1,800,000&lt;ref name=&quot;ethnologue.com&quot;/&gt;<br /> | region4 = {{Flag|Singapore}}<br /> | pop4 = 192,665+ (2015)&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |title=Basic Demographic Characteristics: Table 6 Indian Resident Population by Age Group, Dialect Group and Sex |url=http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/cop2010/census_2010_release1/excel/t1-11.xls |work=Census of Population 2010 Statistical Release 1: Demographic Characteristics, Education, Language and Religion |publisher=Department of Statistics, Singapore |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130908091821/http://www.singstat.gov.sg/publications/publications_and_papers/cop2010/census_2010_release1/excel/t1-11.xls |archivedate=8 September 2013 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[https://web.archive.org/web/20170120210625/http://www.singstat.gov.sg/docs/default-source/default-document-library/publications/publications_and_papers/GHS/ghs2015/ghs2015.pdf General Household Survey 2015 - Department of Statistics, Ministry of Trade &amp; Industry, Republic of Singapore]&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|Note: The Singapore Tamil population data excludes Tamils who were unable to speak, and those in one-person households<br /> and households comprising only unrelated persons.}}<br /> | region5 = other<br /> | pop5 = see [[Tamil diaspora]]<br /> | langs = [[Tamil language|Tamil]], [[English language|English]], [[French language|French]] (in [[Puducherry]])<br /> | religions = '''Predominately:'''&lt;br&gt;[[File:Tamil Om.svg|15px]] [[Hinduism]]&lt;br&gt;'''Minorities:'''&lt;br&gt;{{hlist|[[File:Allah-green.svg|15px]] [[Islam]]|[[File:Christian cross.svg|12px]] [[Christianity]]|[[File:Jain Prateek Chihna.svg|12px]] [[Jainism]]|[[File:Dharma Wheel.svg|18px]] [[Buddhism]] and others}}<br /> | related = [[Dravidian people|Dravidians]], [[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]]&lt;ref name=GKK&gt;{{citation |author=Kshatriya, G.K. |year=1995 |title=Genetic affinities of Sri Lankan populations |journal=Human Biology |volume=67 |issue=6 |pages=843–66 |pmid=8543296}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> }}<br /> {{Tamils}}<br /> <br /> The '''Tamil people''', also known as '''Tamilar''', '''Thamizhar''' ({{Indic|lang=ta|indic=தமிழர்|trans=tamiẓhar (singular)}} {{IPA-ta|t̪ɐmɪɻɐɾ|}}, or {{Indic|lang=ta|indic=தமிழர்கள்|trans=tamiẓarkaḷ (plural)}} {{IPA-ta|t̪ɐmɪɻɐɾxɐɭ|}}), or simply '''Tamils''' ({{IPAc-en|ˈ|t|æ|m|ɪ|l}}), are a [[Dravidian people|Dravidian]] ethnic group who speak the [[Tamil language]] as their mother tongue and trace their ancestry to [[Southern India]] and northern [[Sri Lanka]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last=Minahan |first=James |title=Ethnic Groups of South Asia and the Pacific: An Encyclopedia |date=2012 |publisher=ABC-CLIO|url=https://books.google.com/?id=abNDLZQ6quYC&amp;pg=PA315&amp;dq=tamils+dravidian+ethnic+group#v=onepage&amp;q=tamils%20dravidian%20ethnic%20group&amp;f=false |isbn=978-1-59884-659-1}}&lt;/ref&gt; Tamils constitute 5.9% of the population in [[India]] (concentrated mainly in [[Tamil Nadu]]), 15% in [[Sri Lanka]],{{refn|group=note|Tamils in Sri Lanka are classified into three ethnicities by the [[Sri Lankan government]] namely, [[Sri Lankan Tamils]], [[Indian Tamils of Sri Lanka|Indian Origin Tamils]] and [[Sri Lankan Moors]] who accounted for 11.2%, 4.1% and 9.3% respectively of the country's population in 2011.&lt;ref name=census12&gt;{{cite web |title=A2: Population by ethnic group according to districts, 2012 |url=http://www.statistics.gov.lk/PopHouSat/CPH2011/index.php?fileName=pop42&amp;gp=Activities&amp;tpl=3 |publisher=Department of Census &amp; Statistics, Sri Lanka}}&lt;/ref&gt; Indian Origin Tamils were separately classified in the 1911 census onwards, while the [[Sri Lankan government]] lists a substantial Tamil-speaking Muslim population as a distinct ethnicity. However, much of the available genealogical evidence suggests that the Sri Lankan Moor community are of Tamil ethnicity, and that the majority of their ancestors were also Tamils who had lived in the country for generations, and had simply converted to Islam from other faiths.&lt;ref name=&quot;vm&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Mohan |first=Vasundhara |title=Identity Crisis of Sri Lankan Muslims |publisher=Mittal Publications |location=Delhi |year=1987 |pages=9–14, 27–30, 67–74, 113–18 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;moor&quot;&gt;{{cite web |url=http://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/1903/12049/1/Ramos_umd_0117E_12042.pdf |title=Ross Brann, &quot;The Moors?&quot; |website=Drum.lib.umd.edu |accessdate=15 December 2017}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;bbcnews&quot;&gt;{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2070817.stm |title=Analysis: Tamil-Muslim divide |publisher=BBC News World Edition |accessdate=6 July 2014}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;azz&quot;&gt;{{cite book |last=Zemzem |first=Akbar |title=The Life and Times of Marhoom Wappichi Marikar (booklet) |location=Colombo |year=1970 }}&lt;/ref&gt; It is also evidenced by the fact that [[Sri Lankan Moors]] were not a self-defined group of people and neither did the 'Moor' identity exist before the arrival of Portuguese colonists.&lt;ref&gt;Pieris, P.E. &quot;Ceylon and the Hollanders 1658–1796&quot;. American Ceylon Mission Press, Tellippalai Ceylon 1918&lt;/ref&gt;}} 6% in [[Tamil Mauritian|Mauritius]],&lt;ref&gt;http://statsmauritius.govmu.org/English/StatsbySubj/Documents/Digest/Demographic13.pdf&lt;/ref&gt; 7% in [[Tamil Malaysians|Malaysia]] and 5% in [[Indians in Singapore|Singapore]]. Tamils, with a population of around 76 million and with a documented history stretching back over 2,000 years, are one of the largest and oldest extant ethnolinguistic groups in the modern world.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |author=N. Subrahmanian |title=The Tamils: Their History, Culture, and Civilization |volume=36 |pages=150–58 |year=1996 |publisher=Institute of Asian Studies}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> From the 4th century BC onwards,&lt;ref&gt;Encyclopaedia of Indian Literature: Sasay to Zorgot by Mohan Lal p. 4283&lt;/ref&gt; urbanisation and mercantile activity along the western and eastern coasts of what is today [[Kerala]] and [[Tamil Nadu]] led to the development of four large Tamil political states, the [[Chera dynasty|Cheras]], [[Chola dynasty|Cholas]], [[Pandyan dynasty|Pandyas]] and [[Pallava dynasty|Pallavas]] and a number of smaller states, all of whom were warring amongst themselves for dominance. The [[Jaffna Kingdom]], inhabited by [[Sri Lankan Tamils]], was once one of the strongest kingdoms of [[Sri Lanka]], and controlled much of the north of the island.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=HKOU3xw2JsAC |title=South Asian Studies |date=1999 |publisher=South Asian Studies Centre, Department of Political Science, University of Rajasthan |pages=11 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=8HEUAQAAMAAJ |title=Ethnic Composition and Crisis in South Asia: Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Bhutan |last=Chattopadhyaya |first=Haraprasad |last2=Sarkar |first2=S.K. |date=2003 |publisher=Global Vision Publishing House |isbn=9788187746737 |page=480 |language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Tamils were noted for their influence on regional trade throughout the Indian Ocean. Artifacts marking the presence of Roman traders show direct trade was active between Rome and southern India, and the Pandyas were recorded as having sent at least two embassies directly to Emperor Augustus in Rome. The Pandyas and Cholas were historically active in Sri Lanka. The [[Chola dynasty]] successfully invaded several areas in southeast Asia, including the powerful [[Srivijaya]] and the Malay city-state of [[Kedah]].&lt;ref&gt;Nagapattinam to Suvarnadwipa: Reflections on the Chola Naval Expeditions to Southeast Asia by Hermann Kulke, K Kesavapany, Vijay Sakhuja p. 79&lt;/ref&gt; Medieval Tamil guilds and trading organizations like the Ayyavole and Manigramam played an important role in Southeast Asian trading networks.&lt;ref&gt;The Emporium of the World: Maritime Quanzhou, 1000–1400 by Angela Schottenhammer p. 293&lt;/ref&gt; [[Pallava]] traders and religious leaders travelled to [[Southeast Asia]] and played an important role in the [[Greater India|cultural Indianisation]] of the region. Scripts brought by Tamil traders to Southeast Asia, like the [[Grantha script|Grantha]] and [[Pallava script|Pallava]] scripts, induced the development of many Southeast Asian scripts such as [[Khmer script|Khmer]], [[Javanese script|Javanese]] [[Kawi script]], [[Baybayin]] and [[Thai script|Thai]].<br /> <br /> The [[Tamil language]] is one of the world's longest-surviving [[classical language]]s,&lt;ref name=&quot;Circulation and the Historical Geog&quot;&gt;{{Citation|last1=Stein|first1=B.|title=Circulation and the Historical Geography of Tamil Country|journal=The Journal of Asian Studies|volume=37|issue=1|pages=7–26|year=1977|doi=10.2307/2053325|jstor=2053325}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvnb|Steever|1998|pp=6–9}}&lt;/ref&gt; with a history dating back to 300 BCE. Tamil literature is dominated by poetry, especially [[Sangam literature]], which is composed of poems composed between 300 BCE and 300 CE. The most important Tamil author was the poet and philosopher [[Thiruvalluvar]], who wrote the [[Tirukkuṛaḷ]], a group of treatises on ethics, politics, love and morality widely considered the greatest work of Tamil literature.&lt;ref&gt;Encyclopaedia of Indian Literature: Sasay to Zorgot by Mohan Lal p. 4284&lt;/ref&gt; Tamil visual art is dominated by [[Dravidian architecture|stylised Temple architecture]] in major centres and the productions of images of deities in stone and bronze. Chola bronzes, especially the [[Nataraja]] sculptures of the [[Chola art|Chola period]], have become notable symbols of [[Hinduism]]. A major part of Tamil performing arts is its classical form of dance, the [[Bharatanatyam]], whereas the popular forms are known as [[Koothu]]. Classical Tamil music is dominated by the [[Carnatic music|Carnatic]] genre, while [[gaana]] and [[dappan koothu]] are also popular genres.<br /> <br /> Although most Tamil people are [[Hindu]]s, many, especially those in the rural areas practice what is considered to be [[Dravidian folk religion]], venerating a [[Village deities of Tamil Nadu|plethora of village deities]]; while a sizeable number are [[Tamil Muslims|Muslims]] and [[Christians]]. A small [[Tamil Jain|Jain]] community survives from the classical period as well. [[Tamil cuisine]] is informed by varied vegetarian and non-vegetarian items usually spiced with locally available spices. The [[Ancient Tamil music|music]], the temple architecture and the stylised sculptures favoured by the Tamil people as in their [[Ancient Tamil country|ancient nation]] are still being learnt and practised. English historian and broadcaster [[Michael Wood (historian)|Michael Wood]] called the Tamils the last surviving classical civilisation on Earth, because the Tamils have preserved substantial elements of their past regarding belief, culture, music and literature despite the influence of globalization.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/india/gal_india_south_03.shtml |title=Michael Wood, BBC |publisher=Bbc.co.uk |date=5 November 2009 |accessdate=18 July 2010}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last=Wood |first=Michael |title=A South Indian Journey: The Smile of Murugan |publisher=Penguin UK |url=https://books.google.com/?id=sK4hIRAdIJ8C&amp;dq=tamil+last+classical+civilization |isbn=978-0-14-193527-0 |date=2 August 2007}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Etymology==<br /> {{See also|Sources of ancient Tamil history}}<br /> <br /> It is unknown as to whether the term ''Thamizhar'' and its equivalents in [[Prakrit]] such as ''Damela'', ''Dameda'', ''Dhamila'' and ''Damila'' was a self designation or a term denoted by outsiders. Epigraphic evidence of an ethnicity termed as such is found in ancient Sri Lanka where a number of inscriptions have come to light datable from the 6th to the 5th century BCE mentioning ''Damela'' or ''Dameda'' persons. The well-known [[Hathigumpha inscription]] of the [[Kalinga (historical kingdom)|Kalinga]] ruler [[Kharavela]] refers to a ''T(ra)mira samghata'' (Confederacy of Tamil rulers) dated to 150 BCE. It also mentions that the league of Tamil kingdoms had been in existence 113 years before then.&lt;ref name=KI157/&gt; In [[Amaravathi village, Guntur district|Amaravati]] in present-day [[Andhra Pradesh]] there is an inscription referring to a ''Dhamila-vaniya'' (Tamil trader) datable to the 3rd century CE.&lt;ref name=KI157/&gt; Another inscription of about the same time in [[Nagarjunakonda]] seems to refer to a ''Damila''. A third inscription in [[Kanheri Caves]] refers to a ''Dhamila-gharini'' (Tamil house-holder). In the [[Buddhist]] [[Jataka]] story known as ''Akiti Jataka'' there is a mention to ''Damila-rattha'' (Tamil dynasty). There were trade relationship between the [[Roman Empire]] and [[Pandyan Empire]]. As recorded by [[Strabo]], [[Emperor Augustus]] of [[Rome]] received at [[Antioch]] an ambassador from a king called ''Pandyan of Dramira''.&lt;ref name=&quot;The cyclopædia of India and of Eastern and Southern Asia&quot;&gt;The cyclopædia of India and of Eastern and Southern Asia By Edward Balfour&lt;/ref&gt; Hence, it is clear that by at least 300 B.C., the ethnic identity of Tamils was formed as a distinct group.&lt;ref name=KI157&gt;Indrapala, K ''The Evolution of an ethnic identity: The Tamils of Sri Lanka'', pp.&amp;nbsp;155–56&lt;/ref&gt; ''Thamizhar'' is etymologically related to Tamil, the language spoken by Tamil people. Southworth suggests that the name comes from tam-miz &gt; tam-iz 'self-speak', or 'one's own speech'.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |last=Southworth |first=Franklin C. |title=On the Origin of the word tamiz |year=1998 |journal=International Journal of Dravidial Linguistics |volume=27 |issue=1 |pages=129–32}}&lt;/ref&gt; Zvelebil suggests an etymology of ''tam-iz'', with tam meaning &quot;self&quot; or &quot;one's self&quot;, and &quot;-iz&quot; having the connotation of &quot;unfolding sound&quot;. Alternatively, he suggests a derivation of ''tamiz'' &lt; ''tam-iz'' &lt; ''*tav-iz'' &lt; ''*tak-iz'', meaning in origin &quot;the proper process (of speaking)&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |last=Zvelebil |first=Kamil V. |author-link=Kamil Zvelebil |title=Companion Studies to the history of Tamil literature |year=1992 |publisher=E.J. Brill |place=Leiden}} at pp. x–xvi.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==History==<br /> {{See also| History of Tamil Nadu}}<br /> <br /> ===In India===<br /> <br /> ====Pre-historic period====<br /> Possible evidence indicating the earliest presence of Tamil people in modern-day [[Tamil Nadu]] are the [[megalith]]ic urn burials, dating from around 1500 BCE and onwards, which have been discovered at various locations in Tamil Nadu, notably in [[Adichanallur]] in [[Thoothukudi District]]&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation|last=John |first=Vino |title=Reading the past in a more inclusive way: Interview with Dr. Sudharshan Seneviratne |publisher=[[Frontline (magazine)|Frontline]] |date=27 January 2006 |url=http://www.flonnet.com/fl2301/stories/20060127003610200.htm |accessdate=9 July 2008 |quote=But Indian/south Indian history/archaeology has pushed the date back to 1500 B.C., and in Sri Lanka, there are definitely good radiometric dates coming from Anuradhapura that the non-Brahmi symbol-bearing black and red ware occur at least around 900 B.C. or 1000 B.C. |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20090202174036/http://www.flonnet.com/fl2301/stories/20060127003610200.htm |archivedate=2 February 2009 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;codrington1&quot;&gt;{{Citation<br /> | author = K. De B. Codrington<br /> |date= October 1930<br /> | title = Indian Cairn- and Urn-Burials<br /> | journal = Man<br /> | volume = 30<br /> | issue = 30<br /> | pages = 190–96<br /> | doi = 10.2307/2790468<br /> | quote =...&amp;nbsp;at Perambair &amp; Pallavaram a second type of burial exists in legged urns&amp;nbsp;...<br /> | jstor=2790468}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;kan&quot;&gt;Comparative excavations carried out in Adichanallur in Thirunelveli district and in Northern India have provided evidence of a southward migration of the Megalithic culture – K.A.N. Sastri, ''A History of South India'', pp. 4&amp;&gt;'67&lt;/ref&gt; which conform to the descriptions of funerals in classical Tamil literature.&lt;ref name=&quot;codrington2&quot;&gt;{{Citation<br /> | author = K. De B. Codrington<br /> |date=August 2017| title = Indian Cairn- and Urn-Burials<br /> | journal = Man<br /> | volume = 30<br /> | issue = 30<br /> |pages=190–196| doi =10.2307/2790468<br /> | quote = It is necessary to draw attention to certain passages in early Tamil literature which throw a great deal of light upon this strange burial ceremonial&amp;nbsp;...<br /> | jstor=2790468}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Various legends became prevalent after the 10th century CE regarding the antiquity of the Tamil people. According to ''[[Iraiyanar Agapporul]]'', a 10th/11th century annotation on the Sangam literature, the [[Kumari Kandam|Tamil country extended southwards]] beyond the natural boundaries of the Indian peninsula comprising 49 ancient ''nadus'' (divisions). The land was supposed to have been destroyed by a deluge. The ''[[Tamil Sangams|Sangam]]'' legends also adproded to the antiquity of the Tamil people by claiming tens of thousands of years of continuous literary activity during three ''Sangams''.&lt;ref&gt;Nilakanta Sastri, ''A history of South India'', p. 105&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Classical period====<br /> [[File:GreyPotteryWithEngravingsVirampatnamArikamedu1stCenturyCE.jpg|thumb|upright|Grey pottery with engravings, [[Arikamedu]], 1st century CE]]<br /> Ancient Tamils had three monarchical states, headed by kings called &quot;Vendhar&quot; and several tribal chieftainships, headed by the chiefs called by the general denomination &quot;Vel&quot; or &quot;Velir&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;K.A.N. Sashtri, ''A History of South India'', pp. 109–12&lt;/ref&gt; Still lower at the local level there were clan chiefs called &quot;kizhar&quot; or &quot;mannar&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;'There were three levels of redistribution corresponding to the three categories of chieftains, namely: the Ventar, Velir and Kilar in descending order. Ventar were the chieftains of the three major lineages, viz Cera, Cola and Pandya. Velir were mostly hill chieftains, while Kilar were the headmen of settlements&amp;nbsp;...' —{{cite web |title=Perspectives on Kerala History |work=P.J. Cherian (ed) |url=http://www.keralahistory.ac.in/historicalantecedents.htm |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20060826094724/http://www.keralahistory.ac.in/historicalantecedents.htm |archivedate=26 August 2006 |publisher=Kerala Council for Historical Research |accessdate=15 November 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Tamil kings and chiefs were always in conflict with each other, mostly over territorial hegemony and property. The royal courts were mostly places of social gathering rather than places of dispensation of authority; they were centres for distribution of resources. Ancient Tamil [[Sangam literature]] and grammatical works, [[Tolkappiyam]]; the ten anthologies, [[Pattuppāṭṭu]]; and the eight anthologies, [[Eṭṭuttokai]] also shed light on ancient Tamil people.&lt;ref name=&quot;autogenerated1979&quot;&gt;Kanchan Sinha, Kartikeya in Indian art and literature, Delhi: Sundeep Prakashan (1979).&lt;/ref&gt; The kings and chieftains were patrons of the arts, and a significant volume of literature exists from this period.&lt;ref name=&quot;ks&quot;&gt;{{citation |author=K. Sivathamby |date=December 1974 |title=Early South Indian Society and Economy: The Tinai Concept |journal=Social Scientist |volume=3 |issue=5 |pages=20–37 |quote=Those who ruled over small territories were called Kurunilamannar. The area ruled by such a small ruler usually corresponded to a geographical unit. In Purananuru a number of such chieftains are mentioned;.. |doi=10.2307/3516448 |jstor=3516448}}&lt;/ref&gt; The literature shows that many of the cultural practices that are considered peculiarly Tamil date back to the classical period.&lt;ref name=&quot;ks&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Agriculture was important during this period, and there is evidence that networks of [[irrigation]] channels were built as early as the 3rd century BCE.&lt;ref name=&quot;ebcauvery&quot;&gt;{{citation |url=http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9021884/Cauvery-River |title=Grand Anaicut |encyclopedia=Encyclopædia Britannica |accessdate=3 May 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; Internal and external trade flourished, and evidence of significant contact with [[Ancient Rome]] exists.&lt;ref name=&quot;mgsn&quot; /&gt; Large quantities of [[Roman currency|Roman coins]] and signs of the presence of [[Roman commerce|Roman traders]] have been discovered at [[Karur]] and [[Arikamedu]].&lt;ref name=&quot;mgsn&quot;&gt;{{citation |author=M.G.S. Narayanan |date=September 1988<br /> |title=The Role of Peasants in the Early History of Tamilakam in South India |journal=Social Scientist |volume=16 |issue=9 |pages=17–34 |doi=10.2307/3517170 |jstor=3517170}}&lt;/ref&gt; There is evidence that at least two embassies were sent to the [[Roman Emperor]] [[Augustus]] by Pandya kings.&lt;ref name=&quot;ebpandya&quot;&gt;{{citation |url=http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9058245/Pandya-Dynasty |title=Pandya Dynasty |encyclopedia=Encyclopædia Britannica |accessdate=3 May 2007}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Sherd|Potsherds]] with Tamil writing have also been found in [[Excavation (archaeology)|excavations]] on the [[Red Sea]], suggesting the presence of Tamil [[merchant]]s there.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |title=Archaeologists Uncover Ancient Maritime Spice Route Between India, Egypt |work=Veluppillai, Prof. A. }}&lt;/ref&gt; An anonymous 1st century traveller's account written in Greek, ''[[Periplus Maris Erytraei]]'', describes the ports of the Pandya and Chera kingdoms in ''[[Damirica]]'' and their commercial activity in great detail. ''Periplus'' also indicates that the chief exports of the ancient Tamils were [[black pepper|pepper]], [[malabathrum]], [[pearl]]s, [[ivory]], silk, [[spikenard]], diamonds, [[sapphire]]s, and [[tortoiseshell material|tortoiseshell]].&lt;ref name=&quot;periplus&quot;&gt;The term ''Periplus'' refers to the region of the eastern seaboard of South India as ''Damirica '' – {{citation |url=http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/periplus.html |title=The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century |work=Ancient History source book}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The classical period ended around the 4th century CE with invasions by the [[Kalabhra dynasty|Kalabhra]], referred to as the ''kalappirar'' in Tamil literature and inscriptions.&lt;ref name=&quot;igj&quot; /&gt; These invaders are described as 'evil kings' and 'barbarians' coming from lands to the north of the Tamil country, but modern historians think they could have been hill tribes who lived north of Tamil country.&lt;ref&gt;'Kalabhraas were denounced as 'evil kings' (''kaliararar'') – K.A.N. Sastri, ''A History of South India'', p. 130&lt;/ref&gt; This period, commonly referred to as the Dark Age of the Tamil country, ended with the rise of the [[Pallava]] dynasty.&lt;ref name=&quot;igj&quot;&gt;{{Citation<br /> |author= Indian Geographical Society<br /> |title= The Indian Geographical Journal<br /> |year=1941<br /> |page = 69<br /> |quote = These Kalabhras were thrown out by the powerful Pallava dynasty in the fourth century AD&amp;nbsp;... this period is aptly known as &quot;Dark Ages&quot; of Tamil Nadu.}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;K.A.N. Sastri, ''A History of South India''&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;marilyn&quot;&gt;{{Citation<br /> |author=Marilyn Hirsh<br /> |year=1987<br /> |title=Mahendravarman I Pallava: Artist and Patron of Mamallapuram<br /> |journal=Artibus Asiae<br /> |volume=48<br /> |issue=1/2<br /> |pages=109–130<br /> |doi=10.2307/3249854 |jstor=3249854}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> &lt;gallery&gt;<br /> File:Souttoukeny, sarcofago da una sepoltura megalitica, II sec. ac..JPG|Megalithic sarcophagus burial from [[Tamil Nadu]]<br /> File:ಬಂಗಾರದ ವಾದವೇ, ಫುನೆರರಿ ಚೇಂಬರ್, ೨ ನೆಯ ಶತಮಾನ, ತಮಿಳ್ ನಡು. (Tamil Nadu).jpg| Virampatnam jewelry from funerary burial, 2nd century BCE, [[Tamil Nadu]]<br /> Image:SouttoukenyJewelry2ndCenturyBCE.jpg| Souttoukeny jewelry, 2nd century BCE [[Tamil Nadu]]<br /> File:Periplous_of_the_Erythraean_Sea.svg| Map of ancient oceanic trade, and ports of [[Tamilakam]]<br /> File:South India in Sangam Period.jpg|[[Tamiḻakam]] during [[Sangam literature|Sangam]] Period<br /> &lt;/gallery&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Economy, trade and maritime====<br /> {{main|Economy of ancient Tamil country}}<br /> <br /> The Tamil country is strategically located in the [[Indian Ocean]] and had access to a [[sea trade route]].<br /> <br /> ====Imperial and post-imperial periods====<br /> [[File:Varaha Cave Bas relief.jpg|thumb|left|250px|The Varaha cave [[bas relief]] at [[Mahabalipuram]] from 7th century CE]]<br /> <br /> The names of the three dynasties, Cholas, Pandyas, and Cheras, are mentioned in Tamil [[Sangam literature]] and grammatical works like [[Tolkappiyar]] refers to them as the &quot;Three Glorified by Heaven&quot;, ({{indic|lang=ta|indic=வாண்புகழ் மூவர்|trans=Vāṉpukaḻ Mūvar}}).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |last=A. Kiruṭṭin̲an̲ |title=Tamil culture: religion, culture, and literature |year=2000 |publisher=Bharatiya Kala Prakashan |page=17}}&lt;/ref&gt; Later, they are mentioned in the [[Mauryan Empire]]'s [[Pillars of Ashoka]] (inscribed 273–232 BCE) inscriptions, among the kingdoms, which though not subject to [[Ashoka]], were on friendly and allied terms with him.&lt;ref&gt;'Everywhere within Beloved-of-the-Gods, King Piyadasi's domain, and among the people beyond the borders, the Cholas, the Pandyas, the [[Velirs|Satyaputras]], the Keralaputras, as far as Tamraparni&amp;nbsp;...' —{{cite web |title=Ashoka's second minor rock edict |url=http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html |publisher=Colorado State University |accessdate=15 November 2006 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131028175927/http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html |archivedate=28 October 2013 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;asoka&quot;&gt;K.A.N. Sastri, &quot;The CoLas&quot;, 1935 p. 20&lt;/ref&gt; The king of [[Kalinga (historical kingdom)|Kalinga]], Kharavela, who ruled around 150 BCE, is mentioned in the famous Hathigumpha inscription of the confederacy of the Tamil kingdoms that had existed for over 100 years.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |title=Hathigumpha Inscription |work=Epigraphia Indica, Vol. XX (1929–1930). Delhi, 1933, pp. 86–89 |url=http://www.mssu.edu/projectsouthasia/HISTORY/PRIMARYDOCS/EPIGRAPHY/HathigumphaInscription.htm |publisher=Missouri Southern State University |accessdate=15 November 2006 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20061117151339/http://www.mssu.edu/projectsouthasia/HISTORY/PRIMARYDOCS/EPIGRAPHY/HathigumphaInscription.htm |archivedate=17 November 2006 |url-status=dead}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Cholas, Pandyas, Cheras, and Pallavas were followers of [[Hinduism]], though for a short while some of them seem to have embraced [[Tamil Jain|Jainism]] and later converted to Hinduism.&lt;ref&gt;(Source- K.A. Nilakanta Sastri's &quot;History of South India&quot;)&lt;/ref&gt; After the fall of the Mauryan Empire, the Tamil kingdoms were allied with the [[Satavahana Dynasty]].<br /> <br /> [[File:01AnnamalaiyarTemple&amp;Thiruvannamalai&amp;TamilNadu&amp;AerialViewfromVirupakshaCave.jpg|thumb|right|250px|[[Tiruvannamalai]] city and Annamalaiyar temple, Tamil architecture and culture influenced much of [[Southeast Asia]] between the 8th to 13th century CE.]]<br /> <br /> These early kingdoms sponsored the growth of some of the oldest extant [[Tamil literature|literature in Tamil]]. The classical Tamil literature, referred to as Sangam literature, is attributed to the period between 200 BCE and 300 CE.&lt;ref&gt;Kamil Veith Zvelebil, ''Companion Studies to the History of Tamil Literature&quot;, p. 12&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;K.A.N. Sastri, &quot;A History of South India&quot;, OUP (1955) p. 105&lt;/ref&gt; The poems of Sangam literature, which deal with emotional and material topics, were categorised and collected into various anthologies during the medieval period. These Sangam poems paint the picture of a fertile land and of a people who were organised into various occupational groups. The governance of the land was through hereditary monarchies, although the sphere of the state's activities and the extent of the ruler's powers were limited through the adherence to the established order (&quot;[[dharma]]&quot;). Although the [[Pallava]] records can be traced from the 2nd century CE, they did not rise to prominence as an imperial dynasty until the 6th century.&lt;ref&gt;name=&quot;his_of_india&quot;{{Citation|last = Smith|first= Vincent Arthur|title= The Early History of India|year=1904|publisher= The Clarendon press|pages = 336–58|isbn = 978-81-7156-618-1}}&lt;/ref&gt; They transformed the institution of the kingship into an imperial one, and sought to bring vast amounts of territory under their direct rule. The [[Bhakti movement]] in Hinduism was founded at this time, and rose along with the growing influence of [[Tamil Jain|Jainism]] and [[Buddhism]].&lt;ref name=&quot;med_india&quot;&gt;{{Citation|last = Chandra|first= Satish|title= Medieval India: From Sultanat to the Mughals (1206–1526) – I|year=1997|publisher= Har-Anand Publications|page = 250|isbn = 978-81-241-1064-5|quote =... Starting from the Tamil lands under the Pallava kings, bhakti spread to different parts of south India ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Pallavas pioneered the building of large, ornate temples in stone which formed the basis of the Dravidian temple architecture. They came into conflict with the [[Kannada]] [[Chalukya dynasty|Chalukyas of Badami]]. During this period, the great Badami Chalukya King [[Pulakeshin II]] extended the Chalukya Empire up to the northern extents of the [[Pallava]] kingdom and defeated the Pallavas in several battles.&lt;ref name=&quot;pulaka&quot;&gt;Chopra, Ravindran and Subramanian (2003), p. 74 part 1&lt;/ref&gt; Pallava [[Narasimhavarma I|Narasimhavarman]] however reversed this victory in 642 by attacking and occupying Badami temporarily.&lt;ref name=&quot;fell&quot;&gt;Sastri (1955), p. 136&lt;/ref&gt; However a later Chalukya King [[Vikramaditya II]] took revenge by repeated invasions of the territory of [[Tondaimandalam]] and his subsequent victories over Pallava [[Nandivarman II]] and the annexation of Kanchipuram.&lt;ref name=&quot;overran&quot;&gt;Sastri 1955, p. 140&lt;/ref&gt; The [[Pallava]] dynasty was overthrown in the 9th century by the imperial Kannada [[Rashtrakutas]] who ruled from Gulbarga. King [[Krishna III]], the last great Rashtrakuta king consolidated the empire so that it stretched from the Narmada River to the Kaveri River and included the northern Tamil country (Tondaimandalam) while levying tribute on the king of Ceylon.&lt;ref name=&quot;krishna&quot;&gt;Sastri (1955), p. 162&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:Rajendra map new.svg|left|thumb|The Tamil [[Chola Empire]] at its height, 1030 CE]]<br /> <br /> Under [[Rajaraja Chola]] and his son [[Rajendra Chola I|Rajendra Chola]], the Cholas became dominant in the 10th century and established an empire covering most of [[South India]] and [[Sri Lanka]].&lt;ref name=&quot;his_of_india&quot;&gt;{{Citation|last = Smith|first= Vincent Arthur|title= The Early History of India|year=1904|publisher= The Clarendon press|pages = 336–58|isbn = 978-81-7156-618-1}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;!--page #345--&gt;The empire had strong trading links with the Chinese [[Song Dynasty]] and southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;rajendra1&quot;&gt;{{Citation|last = Srivastava|first= Balram|title= Rajendra Chola|year=1973|publisher= National Book Trust, India|page = 80|quote = The mission which Rajendra sent to China was essentially a trade mission, ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;cct&quot;&gt;{{Citation|last = D. Curtin|first= Philip|title= Cross-Cultural Trade in World History|year=1984|publisher= Cambridge University Press|page = 101|isbn = 978-0-521-26931-5}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Cholas defeated the [[Eastern Chalukya]] and expanded their empire to the [[Ganges]]. They conquered the coastal areas around the [[Bay of Bengal]] and turned it into a Chola lake. [[Rajendra Chola]] improved his father's fleet and created the first notable marine of the Indian subcontinent. The [[Chola navy]] [[Chola invasion of Srivijaya|conquered]] the dominant Southeast Asian power, the [[Srivijaya|Srivijaya Empire]], and secured the sea trade route to [[China]].&lt;ref name=&quot;his_of_india&quot; /&gt; Cholas exacted tribute from [[Thailand]] and the [[Khmer Empire]]. The latter half of the 11th century saw the union of Chola and Vengi kingdoms under [[Kulottunga I]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=The Cambridge Shorter History of India|publisher=CUP Archive|page=191}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Chola emperor decisively defeated and repulsed an invasion by the Western Chalukya king Vikramaditya VI who tried to interfere in Chola politics by installing his puppet. These wars resulted in a victory for the Cholas and led to the annexation of Gangavadi and Konkan regions. Vikramaditya VI was confined to his own dominions north of the Tungabhadra.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Ancient Indian History and Civilization|author=Sailendra Nath Sen|publisher=New Age International, 1999|page=485}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Chola empire remained formidable during the reign of Kulottunga and maintained its influence over the various kingdoms of Southeast Asia like the Sri Vijaya empire.&lt;ref&gt;Singapore in Global History by Derek Thiam Soon Heng, Syed Muhd Khairudin Aljunied p.40&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Nagapattinam to Suvarnadwipa: Reflections on the Chola Naval Expeditions to Southeast Asia|author1=Hermann Kulke|author2=K Kesavapany|author3=Vijay Sakhuja|publisher=Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, 2009 - History|pages=11–12}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to historian [[Nilakanta Sastri]], Kulottunga avoided unnecessary wars and had a long and prosperous reign characterized by unparalleled success that laid the foundation for the well being of the empire for the next 150 years.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |author=K. A. N. Sastri |author-link=K. A. Nilakanta Sastri |title=The Cōḷas |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=eg9uAAAAMAAJ |year=1955 |publisher=University of Madras|page=301}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The eventual decline of Chola power in South India began towards the end of Kulottunga III's reign. It was accentuated by the resurgence of Pandyas under [[Maravarman Sundara Pandya]] (1216-1238 CE)&lt;ref name=&quot;his_of_india&quot; /&gt; The waning Chola fortunes resulted in a three-way fight for the Tamil regions between the Pandyas, the Hoysalas and the Kakatiyas. Even the Kadava chief, Kopperunjinga, rebelled against his Chola overlord, Rajaraja III, and asserted his independence.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Gazetteer of the Nellore District: Brought Upto 1938|author=Government of Madras Staff, Government of Madras|publisher=Asian Educational Services, 2004|pages=44–45}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Hoysalas played a divisive role in the politics of the Tamil country during this period. They thoroughly exploited the lack of unity among the Tamil kingdoms and alternately supported one Tamil kingdom against the other thereby preventing both the Cholas and Pandyas from rising to their full potential. During the period of Rajaraja III, the Hoysalas sided with the Cholas and defeated the Kadava chieftain Kopperunjinga and the Pandyas and established a presence in the Tamil country. Rajendra Chola III who succeeded Rajaraja III was a much better ruler who took bold steps to revive the Chola fortunes. He led successful expeditions to the north as attested by his epigraphs found as far as Cuddappah.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Journal of the Sri Venkatesvara Oriental Institute, Volumes 5-7|author=Sri Venkatesvara Oriental Institute|page=64}}&lt;/ref&gt; He also defeated two Pandya princes one of whom was Maravarman Sundara Pandya II and briefly made the Pandyas submit to the Chola overlordship. The Hoysalas, under Vira Someswara, were quick to intervene and this time they sided with the Pandyas and repulsed the Cholas in order to counter the latter's revival.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Ancient Indian History and Civilization|author=Sailendra Nath Sen|publisher=New Age International, 1999|page=487}}&lt;/ref&gt; Tamil history turned a new leaf with the advent of the warrior prince, Jatavarman Sundara Pandya I. In the ensuing wars for supremacy, he emerged as the single most victorious ruler and the Pandya kingdom reached its zenith in the 13th century during his reign. Jatavarman Sundara Pandya first put an end to Hoysala interference by expelling them from the Kaveri delta and subsequently killed their king Vira Someswara in 1262 AD near Srirangam. He then defeated Kopperunjinga, the Kadava chieftain, and turned him into a vassal. The Pandya then turned his attention to the north and annexed Kanchi by killing the Telugu chief Vijaya Gandagopala. He then marched up to Nellore and celebrated his victories there by doing the ''virabisheka''(anointment of heroes) after defeating the Kakatiya ruler, Ganapati. Meanwhile, his lieutenant Vira Pandya defeated the king of Lanka and obtained the submission of the island nation.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=Ancient Indian History and Civilization|author=Sailendra Nath Sen|publisher=New Age International, 1999|page=459}}&lt;/ref&gt; In the 14th century, the Pandyan empire was engulfed in a civil war and also had to face repeated invasions by the Delhi Sultanate. In 1335, [[Madurai]], the Pandyan capital, was conquered by [[Jalaluddin Ahsan Khan]] and a short-lived [[Madurai Sultanate]] was established, but was captured in 1378 by the [[Vijayanagara Empire]]. Throughout the 15th and 16th century the [[Vijayanagara Empire]] was the dominant power of South India and sponsored many Tamil literary works. After the collapse of Vijayanagara in 1646, [[Tamil Nadu]] was dominated by small states like the [[Madurai Nayak Dynasty|Madurai Nayaks]].<br /> <br /> The area west of the western ghats became increasingly politically distinct from the Eastern parts ruled by Chola and Pandya Dynasties&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation |last=Freeman |first=Rich |date=February 1998 |title=Rubies and Coral: The Lapidary Crafting of Language in Kerala |journal=The Journal of Asian Studies |volume=57 |issue=1 |pages=38–65 |doi=10.2307/2659023 |jstor=2659023}} at pp. 41–43.&lt;/ref&gt; [[Kerala]] was until 9th century, culturally and linguistically part of [[Tamilakam]], with the local Koduntamil evolving to [[Malayalam]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title=Social and cultural history of Tamilnad|last=Subrahmanian|first=N.|date=1993|publisher=Ennes|pages=209|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt; This socio-culturally transformation was altered through [[Sanskrit]]-speaking [[Indo-Aryan peoples|Indo-Aryan]] migration from Northern India in the 8th century.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title=Medieval Indian Literature: Surveys and selections|last=Paniker|first=K. Ayyappa|date=1997|publisher=Sahitya Akademi|isbn=9788126003655|pages=299–300|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===In Sri Lanka===<br /> {{Sri Lankan Tamil history}}<br /> {{Main|Sri Lankan Tamils}}<br /> [[File:Megalithic burial jar.jpg|thumb|right|Megalithic burial urns or jar found in Pomparippu, North Western, Sri Lanka dated to at least five to two centuries before the [[Common Era]]. These are similar to Megalithic burial jars found in [[South India]] and the [[Deccan Plateau|Deccan]] during a similar time frame.&lt;ref name=desilva129&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|2005|p= 129}}&lt;/ref&gt;]]<br /> <br /> There is little scholarly consensus over the presence of Tamil people in Sri Lanka .&lt;ref&gt;Natarajan, V., ''History of Ceylon Tamils'', p. 9&lt;/ref&gt; According to another theory, cultural diffusion well before Sinhalese arrival in Sri Lanka led to Tamil replacing a previous language of an indigenous [[Mesolithic]] population that became the Sri Lankan Tamils.&lt;ref&gt;Indrapala, K. ''The Evolution of an ethnic identity: The Tamils of Sri Lanka'', pp. 53–54&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to their tradition, Sri Lankan Tamils are lineal descendants of the aboriginal [[Naga people of Sri Lanka|Naga]] and [[Yaksha]] people of Sri Lanka. The &quot;Nakar&quot; used the cobra totem known as &quot;Nakam&quot; in the Tamil language, which is still part of the [[Hindu]] [[Tamil language|Tamil]] tradition in Sri Lanka today as a subordinate deity.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation|author= South Asia Association|title= South Asia Bulletin|year= 1987|location= University of California, Los Angeles|url= https://books.google.com/?id=W9kuAQAAIAAJ&amp;dq=Sri+Lankan+tamil+naga&amp;q=%22According+to+tradition%2C+the+Tamils+of+India+and+Sri+Lanka+are+the+lineal+descendants+of+the+Naga+and+Yaksha+people.+The+aboriginal+Nagas%2C+called+Nakar+in+Tamil+had+the+cobra+%28Nakam+in+Tamil%29+as+their+totem.%22#search_anchor}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Pre-historic period====<br /> The indigenous [[Veddha]]s of Sri Lanka have similar genetic profiles to [[Adivasi]] people of [[South India]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title = Vedda | encyclopedia = Encyclopædia Britannica Online | publisher = Encyclopædia Britannica | location = London | year = 2008 | url = http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/624466/Vedda | accessdate = 23 June 2008 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Settlements of people culturally similar to those of present-day Sri Lanka and [[Tamil Nadu]] in modern India were excavated at [[Megaliths|megalithic burial sites]] at [[Pomparippu]] on the west coast and in [[Kathiraveli]] on the east coast of the island, with villages established between the 5th century BCE and 2nd century CE.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|p= 129}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Indrapala, K. ''The Evolution of an ethnic identity: The Tamils of Sri Lanka'', p. 91&lt;/ref&gt; Cultural similarities in burial practices in South India and Sri Lanka were dated by archeologists to the 10th century BCE. However, Indian history and archaeology have pushed the date back to the 15th century BCE, and in Sri Lanka, there is radiometric evidence from [[Anuradhapura]] that the non-[[Brahmi script|Brahmi]] symbol-bearing [[earthenware|black and red ware]] occurs at least around the 9th or 10th century BCE.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation|last= Subramanian |first= T.S. |title= Reading the past in a more inclusive way: Interview with Dr. Sudharshan Seneviratne |work= [[Frontline (magazine)|Frontline]] |date= 27 January 2006 |url= http://www.flonnet.com/fl2301/stories/20060127003610200.htm |accessdate= 9 July 2008 |url-status= dead |archiveurl= https://web.archive.org/web/20080612085446/http://www.flonnet.com/fl2301/stories/20060127003610200.htm |archivedate= 12 June 2008 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Historic period====<br /> Early South Indian type [[Black and red ware culture|black and red ware]] potsherds found in Sri Lanka, indicate that both region were bound by similar culture and identity.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title=Sri Lanka: Ethnic Fratricide and the Dismantling of Democracy|last=Tambiah|first=Stanley Jeyaraja|date=1986|publisher=I.B.Tauris|isbn=9781850430261|pages=90|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt; The many Brahmic inscriptions found in Sri Lanka, with Tamil clan names such as ''Parumakal'', ''Ay'', ''Vel'', ''Uti'' (''Utiyan''), ''Tissa'' (''Ticaiyan''), ''Cuda''/''Cula''/''Cola, Naka'' etc., point out to early close affinity between Sri Lanka and South India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title=Early Settlements in Jaffna: An Archaeological Survey|last=Ragupathy|first=Ponnampalam|date=1987|publisher=University of Jaffna|pages=223|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Sherd|Potsherds]] with [[Tamil Brahmi|early Tamil writing]] from the 2nd century BCE have been found in excavations in north of the Sri Lanka in [[Poonakari|Poonagari]], bearing several inscriptions including a clan name – ''vela'', a name related to ''[[Velirs|velir]]'' from [[ancient Tamil country]].&lt;ref name=ETEHar&gt;Mahadeva, I. ''Early Tamil Epigraphy: From the Earliest Times to the Sixth Century A.D.'', p. 48&lt;/ref&gt; Tamil Brahmi inscribed potsherds have also been [[Tissamaharama Tamil Brahmi inscriptions|excavated in the south of the island in Tissamaharama]]. There is [[epigraphic]] evidence of people identifying themselves as Damelas or Damedas (the [[Prakrit]] word for Tamil people) in Anuradhapura, the capital city of [[Rajarata]], and other areas of Sri Lanka as early as the 2nd century BCE.&lt;ref&gt;Indrapala, K., ''The Evolution of an ethnic identity: The Tamils of Sri Lanka'', p. 157&lt;/ref&gt; Historical records establish that Tamil kingdoms in modern India were closely involved in the island's affairs from about the 2nd century BCE.&lt;ref name=&quot;desilva&quot;&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|pp= 30–32}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;mendis&quot;&gt;Mendis, G.C. ''Ceylon Today and Yesterday'', pp. 24–25&lt;/ref&gt; In ''[[Mahavamsa]]'', a historical poem, ethnic Tamil adventurers such as [[Elara (King)|Elara]] invaded the island around 145 BCE.&lt;ref&gt;Nadarajan, V., ''History of Ceylon Tamils'', p. 40&lt;/ref&gt; Tamil soldiers from what is now South India were brought{{by whom|date=October 2018}} to Anuradhapura between the 7th and 11th centuries CE in such large numbers that local chiefs and kings trying to establish legitimacy came to rely on them.&lt;ref name=GSpencer/&gt; By the 8th century CE there were Tamil villages collectively known as ''Demel-kaballa'' (Tamil allotment), ''Demelat-valademin'' (Tamil villages), and ''Demel-gam-bim'' (Tamil villages and lands).&lt;ref&gt;Indrapala, K ''The Evolution of an ethnic identity: The Tamils of Sr Lanka'', pp. 214–15&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Medieval period====<br /> <br /> In the 9th and 10th centuries CE, [[Pandya]] and [[Chola]] incursions into [[Sri Lanka]] culminated in the Chola annexation of the island, which lasted until the latter half of the 11th century CE, after which Chola influence declined in Sri Lanka.&lt;ref name=GSpencer&gt;{{Citation | last = Spencer | first = George W | title = The politics of plunder: The Cholas in eleventh century Ceylon | journal = The Journal of Asian Studies | volume = 35 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–419 | doi= 10.2307/2053272| jstor = 2053272 | year = 1976 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|pp= 46, 48, 75}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Mendis, G.C. ''Ceylon Today and Yesterday'', pp. 30–31&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Smith, V.A. ''The Oxford History of India'', p. 224&lt;/ref&gt; The Chola decline in Sri Lanka was followed by the restoration of the [[Polonnaruwa|Polonnaruwa monarchy]] in the late 11th century CE.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|p= 76}}&lt;/ref&gt; In 1215, following Pandya invasions, the Tamil-dominant [[Aryacakravarti dynasty|Aryacakaravarthi]] dynasty established the [[Jaffna Kingdom]]&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|pp= 100–02}}&lt;/ref&gt; on the [[Jaffna]] peninsula and in parts of northern Sri Lanka. The Aryacakaravarthi expansion into the south was halted by Akalesvara [[Alagakkonara]], the descendant of a powerful feudal family from [[Kanchipuram]] that migrated to Sri Lanka around the 13th century and converted to Buddhism.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|pp= 102–04}}&lt;/ref&gt; Akalesvara was the chief minister of the Sinhalese king Parakramabahu V (1344–59 CE) and soon became the real power behind the throne. Vira Alakeshwara, a descendant of Alagakkonara, later became king of the Sinhalese,&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|p= 104}}&lt;/ref&gt; but the [[Ming Dynasty|Ming]] admiral [[Zheng He]] overthrew him in 1409 and took him as a captive to China, after which his family declined in influence. The Aryachakaravarthi dynasty continued to rule over large parts of northeast Sri Lanka until the Portuguese [[Portuguese conquest of the Jaffna kingdom|conquest]] of the Jaffna Kingdom in 1619. The coastal areas of the island were taken over by the Dutch and then became part of the [[British Empire]] in 1796. The English sailor [[Robert Knox (sailor)|Robert Knox]] described walking into the island's Tamil country in the publication ''[[An Historical Relation of the Island Ceylon]]'', annotating some kingdoms within it on a map in 1681.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | last = Knox | first = Robert | title = An Historical Relation of the Island Ceylon | page= 166|url= http://gateway.proquest.com/openurl?ctx_ver=Z39.88-2003&amp;res_id=xri:eebo&amp;rft_id=xri:eebo:image:58692:2 |publisher = Robert Chiswell |year= 1681| location = London | id= 2596825 | isbn = 978-1-4069-1141-1 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Upon the arrival of European powers from the 17th century, the Tamils' separate nation was described{{by whom|date=October 2018}} in their areas of habitation in the northeast of the island.&lt;ref&gt;Upon arrival in June 1799, Sir Hugh Cleghorn, the island's first British colonial secretary, wrote to the British government of the traits and antiquity of the Tamil nation on the island in the ''Cleghorn Minute:''<br /> &quot;Two different nations from a very ancient period have divided between them the possession of the island. First the Sinhalese, inhabiting the interior in its Southern and Western parts, and secondly the [[Malabars]] [another name for Tamils] who possess the Northern and Eastern districts. These two nations differ entirely in their religion, language, and manners.&quot; McConnell, D., 2008; Ponnambalam, S. 1983&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The [[Caste system in Sri Lanka|caste structure]] of the majority [[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]] has also accommodated [[Hindu]] immigrants from South India since the 13th century CE. This led to the emergence of three new Sinhalese caste groups: the ''[[Salagama]]'', the ''[[Durava]]'' and the ''[[Karava]]''.&lt;ref name=silva121/&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Spencer, ''Sri Lankan history and roots of conflict'', p. 23&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Indrapala, K., ''The Evolution of an ethnic identity: The Tamils of Sri Lanka'', p. 275&lt;/ref&gt; The Hindu migration and assimilation continued until the 18th century.&lt;ref name=silva121&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|p= 121}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Modern period====<br /> [[File:MylaiTamizhSangam.jpg|thumb|[[Ma. Po. Si.|Ma. Po. Si]] and [[Rajaji]] in center, convention of the Mylai [[Tamil language|Tamil]] Sangam, early 1900s]] British colonists consolidated the Tamil territory in southern India into the [[Madras Presidency]], which was integrated into [[British Raj|British India]]. Similarly, the Tamil speaking parts of Sri Lanka joined with the other regions of the island in 1802 to form the Ceylon colony. Ceylon remained in political union with India until India's independence in 1947; it gained independence the following year, as Sri Lanka, with both Sinhalese and Tamil populations.<br /> <br /> ===== The post-independence period and the Civil War =====<br /> {{See also|Sri Lankan Civil War}}<br /> [[Tamil Eelam]] is a proposed independent state that [[Sri Lankan Tamils|Tamils]] in [[Sri Lanka]] and the [[Sri Lankan Tamil diaspora]] aspire to establish in the [[Northern Province, Sri Lanka|north]] and [[North Eastern Province, Sri Lanka|east]] of [[Sri Lanka]].&lt;ref name=sunday&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2005/01/30/fea28.html |title=From relief, rehabilitation to peace |accessdate=21 June 2008 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20090124105732/http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2005/01/30/fea28.html |archivedate=24 January 2009 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/TKAE-6VZ8LB?OpenDocument&amp;cc=lka&amp;rc=3 |title=Independence-seeking Tigers already run a shadow state |accessdate=21 June 2008 |website= }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=BBC&gt;{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6895809.stm |title='War victory party' in Sri Lanka |accessdate=21 June 2008 |work=BBC News |date=12 July 2007}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=Stokke2006&gt;{{cite journal |author=Stokke, K. |year=2006 |title=Building the Tamil Eelam State: emerging state institutions and forms of governance in LTTE-controlled areas in Sri Lanka |journal=[[Third World Quarterly]] |volume=27 |issue=6 |pages=1021–40 |doi=10.1080/01436590600850434 |citeseerx=10.1.1.466.5940}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=McConnell2008&gt;{{cite journal |author=McConnell, D. |year=2008 |title=The Tamil people's right to self-determination |journal=[[Cambridge Review of International Affairs]] |volume=21 |issue=1 |pages=59–76 |doi=10.1080/09557570701828592}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=Ranganathan2002&gt;{{cite journal |author=Ranganathan, M. |year=2002 |title=Nurturing a Nation on the Net: The Case of Tamil Eelam |journal=Nationalism and Ethnic Politics |volume=8 |issue=2 |pages=51–66 |doi=10.1080/13537110208428661}}&lt;/ref&gt; Irrespective of the ethnic differences, the [[British Ceylon|British]] imposed a unitary state structure in [[British Ceylon]] for better administration.&lt;ref&gt;Donald L. Horowitz, ''Ethnic Groups in Conflict''&lt;/ref&gt; During the British colonial rule, many Tamils held higher positions than the Sinhalese in the government, because they were favored by the British for their qualification in English education. In the Sri Lankan highlands the lands of the Sinhalese were seized by the British and [[Indian Tamils of Sri Lanka|Indian Tamils]] were settled there as plantation workers.&lt;ref&gt;Sri Lanka: Current Issues and Historical Background (2002), Walter Nubin, p. 87&lt;/ref&gt; After the [[British Empire|British colonial rule]] in Sri Lanka ended, ethnic tension between the [[Sinhalese people|Sinhalese]] and the [[Sri Lankan Tamils]] rose. The Sinhalese, constituting a majority of the country, resented the minority Tamils having huge power in the island. In 1948 about 700,000 [[Indian Tamils of Sri Lanka|Indian Tamil]] tea plantation workers from Sri Lanka were made stateless and deported to India. In 1956 the Prime Minister of Sri Lanka passed the [[Sinhala Only Act]], an act where Sinhala replaced English as the only official language of Sri Lanka. Due to this, many Tamils were forced to resign as civil servants/public servants because they were not fluent in [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book |title=Sri Lanka: Ethnic Fratricide and the Dismantling of Democracy |last=Tambiah |first=Stanley |publisher=[[University of Chicago Press]] |year=1984 |isbn=978-0-226-78952-1 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The [[Sri Lankan Tamils]] saw the act as linguistic, cultural and economic discrimination against them.<br /> <br /> After anti-Tamil [[pogrom]]s in [[1956 Ceylonese riots|1956]], [[1958 anti-Tamil pogrom|1958]] and [[1977 anti-Tamil pogrom|1977]] and a brutal crackdown against Tamils protesting against these acts, guerrilla groups like the [[Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam]] were established{{by whom|date=October 2018}}. They aimed to set up an independent Tamil state, [[Tamil Eelam]], for majority-Tamil regions in Sri Lanka. The [[burning of Jaffna library]] in 1981 and [[Black July]] in 1983 finally led to over 25 years of war between the [[Sri Lanka|Sri Lankan army]] and the [[Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam|Tamil Tigers]], in which both sides committed numerous atrocities. This [[Sri Lankan civil war]] led to death of over 100,000 people, according to the [[UN|United Nations]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-05-20/up-to-100000-killed-in-sri-lankas-civil-war-un/1689524 |title=Up to 100,000 killed in Sri Lanka's civil war: UN |website=ABC News |language=en-AU |access-date=1 March 2016|date=20 May 2009 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The Sri Lankan government allegedly committed [[war crimes]] against the civilian Sri Lankan Tamil people during the final months of the [[Eelam War IV]] phase in 2009, when the leader of the Tigers, Prabhakaran, was killed.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/05/20/sri-lanka-new-evidence-wartime-abuses |title=Sri Lanka: New Evidence of Wartime Abuses |website=Human Rights Watch |access-date=9 March 2016|date=20 May 2010 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The war led to the flight of over 800,000 Sri Lankan Tamil refugees, many going to the UK and India. {{As of|2018}} Tamils made up 25% of the population of Sri Lanka.<br /> <br /> ==Geographic distribution==<br /> ===India===<br /> Most Tamils in India live in the state of [[Tamil Nadu]]. Tamils are the&lt;!--was originally &quot;in&quot;--&gt; majority in the [[union territory]] of [[Puducherry]], a former French colony. Puducherry is a [[Enclave#Subnational enclave|subnational enclave]] situated within Tamil Nadu. Tamils account for at least one-sixth of the population in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.<br /> <br /> There are significant Tamil communities in other parts of India. Most of these have emerged fairly recently, dating to the colonial and post-colonial periods, but some date back to the medieval period. Significant populations reside in [[Karnataka]] (2.9 million), [[Maharashtra]] (1.4 million), [[Andhra Pradesh]] (1.2 million), [[Kerala]] (0.6 million) and the [[National Capital Region]] (0.1 million).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Census_Data_2001/Census_Data_Online/Language/Statement3.htm |title=Almost 5 million Tamils live outside Tamil Nadu, inside India |publisher=Censusindia.gov.in |accessdate=18 July 2010}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Sri Lanka===<br /> {{See also|Sri Lankan Tamils|Indian Tamils of Sri Lanka|Sri Lankan Moors}}<br /> [[File:Tamil distribution.png|thumb|170px|Distribution of [[Tamil language|Tamil]] speakers in South India and Sri Lanka (1961)]]<br /> There are two groups of Tamils in Sri Lanka: the [[Sri Lankan Tamils]] and the [[Indian Tamils of Sri Lanka|Indian Tamils]]. The Sri Lankan Tamils (or Ceylon Tamils) are descendants of the Tamils of the old [[Jaffna Kingdom]] and east coast chieftaincies called [[Vannimai]]s. The Indian Tamils (or Hill Country Tamils) are descendants of bonded laborers who migrated from Tamil Nadu to Sri Lanka in the 19th century to work on tea plantations.&lt;ref&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|pp= 177, 181}}&lt;/ref&gt; There also exists a [[Tamil Muslim|significant Muslim population]] in Sri Lanka who are speakers of the Tamil language. Due to independent lineage,&lt;ref name=&quot;vm&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;moor&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;bbcnews&quot;/&gt; they are listed&lt;ref name=&quot;vm&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;bbcnews&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;azz&quot;/&gt; as [[Sri Lankan Moor|Moors]] by the [[Sri Lankan government]].{{Sfn|de Silva|1987|pp=3–5, 9}}&lt;ref name=population/&gt;<br /> <br /> Most Sri Lankan Tamils live in the Northern and Eastern provinces and in the capital [[Colombo]], whereas most Indian Tamils live in the central highlands.&lt;ref name=population&gt;{{citation |title=Population by Ethnicity according to District |author=Department of Census and Statistics of Sri Lanka |url=http://www.statistics.gov.lk/PopHouSat/PDF/Population/p9p8%20Ethnicity.pdf |publisher=statistics.gov.lk |accessdate=3 May 2007}}&lt;/ref&gt; Historically both groups have seen themselves as separate communities, although there has been a greater sense of unity since the 1980s.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |author=V. Suryanarayan |title=In search of a new identity |work=[[Frontline (magazine)|Frontline]] |year=2001 |url=http://www.flonnet.com/fl1816/18160950.htm |accessdate=2 July 2008 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20080529221016/http://www.flonnet.com/fl1816/18160950.htm |archivedate=29 May 2008}}&lt;/ref&gt; &lt;!--In 1949, the [[United National Party]] government, which included [[G.G. Ponnambalam]], leader of the [[All Ceylon Tamil Congress|Tamil Congress]], stripped the Indian Tamils of their citizenship. This was opposed by [[S.J.V. Chelvanayakam]], leader of the Tamil nationalist [[Federal Party (Sri Lanka)|Federal Party]], and most Tamil people.&lt;ref name=&quot;uthr1&quot;&gt;{{Citation | last = Hoole | first = Ranjan | authorlink = Ranjan Hoole | author2 = Sritharan, Kopalasingam | title = Missed Opportunities and the Loss of Democracy: The Disfranchisement of Indian Tamils: 1948–49 | publisher = [[UTHR]] | year = 2001 | url = http://www.uthr.org/BP/volume1/Chapter1.htm | accessdate =26 June 2008}}&lt;/ref&gt;--&gt;<br /> <br /> Under the terms of an agreement reached between the Sri Lankan and Indian governments in the 1960s, about 40 percent of the Indian Tamils were granted Sri Lankan citizenship, and many of the remainder were [[repatriate]]d to India.&lt;ref name=&quot;de Silva, C.R. Sri Lanka-A History, p. 262&quot;&gt;{{harvnb|de Silva|1997|p= 262}}&lt;/ref&gt; By the 1990s, most Indian Tamils had received Sri Lankan citizenship.&lt;ref name=&quot;de Silva, C.R. Sri Lanka-A History, p. 262&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Tamil diaspora===<br /> {{Main|Tamil diaspora|Sri Lankan Tamil diaspora}}<br /> {{See also|Tamil Malaysians|Tamil South Africans|Tamil Canadians|Tamil British|Tamil Indonesian|Tamils in Réunion|Malbars}}<br /> [[File:Tamil Sari.jpg|thumb|right|170px|Tamil woman in traditional attire, c. 1880]]<br /> [[File:Batu caves.jpg|190px|thumb|upright|left|[[Batu Caves]] temple built by Tamil Malaysians in {{circa}} 1880s]]<br /> Significant Tamil emigration began in the 18th century, when the British colonial government sent many poor Tamils as [[indentured servitude|indentured labourers]] to far-off parts of the [[British Empire|Empire]], especially [[British Malaya|Malaya]], [[South Africa]], [[Fiji]], [[Mauritius]], [[Trinidad and Tobago]], [[Guyana]], [[Suriname]], [[Jamaica]], [[French Guiana]], [[Guadeloupe]], and [[Martinique]]. At about the same time, many Tamil businessmen also migrated to other parts of the British Empire, particularly to Burma and East Africa.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |title=The Tamil Migration Cycle 1830–1950 |author=Christophe Z Guilmoto |journal=[[Economic and Political Weekly]] |jstor=4399307 |pages=111–20 |volume=28 |issue=3 |publisher=Economic and Political Weekly |year=1993}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Many Tamils still live in these countries, and the Tamil communities in Singapore, [[Reunion Island]], Malaysia and [[Asians in South Africa|South Africa]] have retained much of their original culture and language. Many Malaysian children attend [[Education in Malaysia#School types and medium of instruction|Tamil schools]], and a significant portion of Tamil children are brought up with Tamil as their first language. In Singapore, Mauritius and Reunion, Tamil students learn Tamil as their second language in school, with English as the first. In Singapore, to preserve the [[Tamil language]], the government has made it an official language despite Tamils comprising only about 5% of the population, and has also introduced compulsory instruction of the language for Tamils. Other Tamil communities, such as those in [[South Africa]], [[Fiji]], [[Mauritius]], [[Trinidad and Tobago]], [[Guyana]], [[Suriname]], [[Jamaica]], [[French Guiana]], [[Guadeloupe]], [[Pakistan]], [[Martinique]], and the [[Caribbean]] no longer speak [[Tamil language]] as a first language, but still retain a strong Tamil identity, and are able to understand the language, while most elders speak it as a first language.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |title=Tamil diaspora – a trans state nation |url=http://searchko.in/literature/ta-cached.jsp?id=82&amp;idx=0 |publisher=Tamilnation.org |accessdate=4 December 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; There is a very small [[Tamils in Pakistan|Tamil community in Pakistan]], notably settled since the [[Partition of India|partition]] in 1947.&lt;ref name=&quot;thenews&quot;&gt;{{cite news |url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-4-98530-Strangers-to-their-roots-and-those-around-them |title=Strangers to their roots, and those around them |work=The News |date=20 March 2012 |accessdate=8 September 2014 |first=Ammar |last=Shahbazi |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130617043012/http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-4-98530-Strangers-to-their-roots-and-those-around-them |archivedate=17 June 2013 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A large emigration also began in the 1980s, as Sri Lankan Tamils sought to escape the ethnic conflict there. These recent emigrants have most often moved to Australia, Europe, North America and southeast Asia.&lt;ref&gt;{{citation |first=Chris |last=McDowell |year=1996 |title=A Tamil Asylum Diaspora: Sri Lankan Migration, Settlement and Politics in Switzerland |publisher=Berghahn Books |location=New York |isbn=978-1-57181-917-8}}&lt;/ref&gt; Today, the largest concentration of Sri Lankan Tamils outside Sri Lanka can be found in [[Toronto]].&lt;ref name=canada&gt;{{cite web |last=Foster |first=Carly |title=Tamils: Population in Canada |publisher=[[Ryerson University]] |year=2007 |url=http://www.diversitywatch.ryerson.ca/backgrounds/tamils.htm |accessdate=25 June 2008 |quote=According to government figures, there are about 200,000 Tamils in Canada |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20080214141743/http://www.diversitywatch.ryerson.ca/backgrounds/tamils.htm |archivedate=14 February 2008}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url=https://www.thestar.com/opinion/columnists/2009/04/04/the_truth_about_tamil_statistics.html |title=The truth about Tamil statistics |first=Kathy |last=English |date=4 April 2009 |accessdate=15 December 2017 |newspaper=[[Toronto Star]]}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://heritagetoronto.org/new-beginnings-tamil-heritage-in-toronto/ |title=New Beginnings: Tamil Heritage in Toronto |website=Heritagetoronto.org |accessdate=15 December 2017}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://tamilculture.com/the-tamil-community-in-canada-a-brief-overview/ |title=The Tamil Community in Canada: A Brief Overview |website=Tamilculture.com |accessdate=15 December 2017}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Culture==<br /> {{further|South Indian culture|Tamil culture|Tamil cuisine}}<br /> <br /> ===Language and literature===<br /> {{Main|Tamil language|Tamil literature|Sri Lankan Tamil dialects|Sri Lankan Tamil literature}}<br /> [[File:WLA lacma 12th century Maharishi Agastya.jpg|170px|thumb|Sage [[Agastya|Agathiyar]], one of the contributors of old Tamil literature]]<br /> Tamils have strong attachment to the Tamil language, which is often venerated in literature as ''Tamil̲an̲n̲ai'', &quot;the Tamil mother&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;See Sumathi Ramasamy, ''Passions of the Tongue'', 'Feminising language: Tamil as Goddess, Mother, Maiden' Chapter 3.&lt;/ref&gt; It has historically been, and to large extent still is, central to the Tamil identity.&lt;ref&gt;(Ramaswamy 1998)&lt;/ref&gt; Like the other languages of [[South India]], it is a [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian language]], unrelated to the [[Indo-European languages]] of northern India. The language has been far less influenced by [[Sanskrit]] than the other Dravidian languages, and preserves many features of [[Proto-Dravidian]], though modern-day spoken Tamil in Tamil Nadu freely uses [[loanword]]s from Sanskrit and English.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | last=Kailasapathy | first=K.| title=The Tamil Purist Movement: A Re-Evaluation | journal=Social Scientist | volume=7 | issue=10 | year=1979 | pages=23–51| doi=10.2307/3516775 | jstor=3516775}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Tamil literature]] is of considerable antiquity, and is recognised as a [[classical language]] by the [[government of India]]. [[Sangam literature|Classical Tamil literature]], which ranges from [[lyric poetry]] to works on [[poetics]] and [[ethics|ethical philosophy]], is remarkably different from contemporary and later literature in other Indian languages, and represents the oldest body of secular literature in South Asia.&lt;ref&gt;See Hart, ''The Poems of Ancient Tamil: Their Milieu and their Sanskrit Counterparts'' (1975)&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Religion===<br /> {{See also|Religion in ancient Tamil country|Dravidian folk religion}}<br /> Ancient Tamil grammatical works, [[Tolkappiyam]]; the ten anthologies, [[Pathupattu]]; and the eight anthologies, [[Ettuthogai]] shed light on early religion. ''[[Murugan]]'' was glorified as ''the red god seated on the blue peacock, who is ever young and resplendent,'' as ''the favored god of the Tamils.''&lt;ref name=&quot;autogenerated1979&quot;/&gt; [[Shiva|Sivan]] was also seen as the supreme God.&lt;ref name=&quot;autogenerated1979&quot;/&gt; Early iconography of [[Murugan|Seyyon]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Mahadevan |first=Iravatham |title=A Note on the Muruku Sign of the Indus Script in light of the Mayiladuthurai Stone Axe Discovery |year=2006 |publisher=harappa.com |url=http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20060904034700/http://www.harappa.com/arrow/stone_celt_indus_signs.html |archivedate=4 September 2006 }}&lt;/ref&gt; and [[Shiva|Sivan]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book| title = The Making of India: A Historical Survey| author = Ranbir Vohra| publisher = M.E. Sharpe| year = 2000| page = 15}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book| title = Ancient Indian Civilization| author = Grigorii Maksimovich Bongard-Levin| publisher = Arnold-Heinemann| year = 1985| page = 45}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book| title = Essential Hinduism| author = Steven Rosen, Graham M. Schweig| publisher = Greenwood Publishing Group| year = 2006| page = 45}}&lt;/ref&gt; and their association with native flora and fauna goes back to the Indus Valley Civilization.&lt;ref&gt;{{Harvnb|Basham|1967}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book| title = Plants of life, plants of death| author = Frederick J. Simoons| year = 1998| page = 363}}&lt;/ref&gt; The [[Sangam landscape]] was classified into five categories, ''thinais'', based on the mood, the season and the land. [[Tolkappiyam]] mentions that each of these ''thinai'' had an associated deity such as [[Murugan|Seyyon]] in ''Kurinji''-the hills, [[Thirumal]] in ''Mullai''-the forests, [[Korravai]] in ''Marutham''-the plains, and [[Indra|Wanji-ko]] in the ''Neithal''-the coasts and the seas. Other gods mentioned were [[Krishna|Mayyon]] and [[Balaram|Vaali]] who are major deities in Hinduism today. Dravidian influence on early Vedic religion is evident; many of these features are already present in the oldest known [[Indo-Aryan language]], the language of the ''[[Rigveda]]'' (c. 1500 BCE), which also includes over a dozen words borrowed from Dravidian.{{sfnp|Krishnamurti|2003|p=6}} This represents an early religious and cultural fusion{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}}{{refn|group=note|name=Lockard|Lockard: &quot;The encounters that resulted from Aryan migration brought together several very different peoples and cultures, reconfiguring Indian society. Over many centuries a fusion of [[Indo-Aryan peoples|Aryan]] and [[Dravidian peoples|Dravidian]] occurred, a complex process that historians have labeled the Indo-Aryan synthesis.&quot;{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=50}} Lockard: &quot;Saivam can be seen historically as a synthesis of Aryan beliefs with Harappan and other Dravidian traditions that developed over many centuries.&quot;{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}}} or synthesis{{sfn|Hiltebeitel|2007|p=12}} between ancient Dravidians and Indo-Aryans, which became more evident over time with sacred iconography, flora and fauna that went on to influence Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.{{sfn|Tiwari|2002|p=v}}{{sfn|Lockard|2007|p=52}}{{sfn|Zimmer|1951|pp=218–19}}{{sfn|Larson|1995|p=81}} Mercantile groups from [[Tamilakam]] and [[Kerala]] introduced ''Cholapauttam'', a syncretic form of [[Buddhism]] and [[Shaivism]] in northern [[Sri Lanka]] and [[South India|Southern India]]. This religion was transmitted through the [[Tamil language]]. The religion lost its importance in the 14th century when conditions changed for the benefit of [[Sinhala language|Sinhala]]/[[Pali]] traditions.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite book|title=Early Interactions Between South and Southeast Asia: Reflections on Cross-cultural Exchange|last=Manguin|first=Pierre-Yves|last2=Mani|first2=A.|last3=Wade|first3=Geoff|date=2011|publisher=Institute of Southeast Asian Studies|isbn=9789814345101|pages=138|language=en}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:Madurai The City of Temples.jpg|thumb|220px|right|Meenakshi Amman temple, dedicated to Goddess Meenakshi, tutelary deity of Madurai city]]<br /> <br /> The cult of the mother goddess is treated as an indication of a society which venerated femininity. [[Amman (goddess)|Amman]], [[Mariamman]], [[Durga]]i, [[Lakshmi]], [[Saraswati]], [[Kali]] and [[Matrikas|Saptakanniyar]] are venerated in all their glorious forms.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Thiruchandran|first=Selvy|title=Ideology, caste, class, and gender|year=1997|publisher=Vikas Pub. House}}&lt;/ref&gt; The temples of the Sangam days, mainly of Madurai, seem to have had priestesses to the deity, who also appear predominantly as goddesses.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Manickam|first=Valliappa Subramaniam|title=A glimpse of Tamilology|year=1968|publisher=Academy of Tamil Scholars of Tamil Nadu|page=75|url=https://books.google.com/?id=bIQOAAAAYAAJ&amp;q=sangam+priestess&amp;dq=sangam+priestess}}&lt;/ref&gt; In the Sangam literature, there is an elaborate description of the rites performed by the Kurava priestess in the shrine Palamutircholai.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Lal|first=Mohan|title=The Encyclopaedia of Indian Literature (Volume Five Sasay To Zorgot), Volume 5|year=2006|publisher=Sahitya Akademi|isbn=978-81-260-1221-3|page=4396}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> About 88%&lt;ref name=&quot;relpop&quot;&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Census_Data_2001/Census_data_finder/C_Series/Population_by_religious_communities.htm |title=Census 2001 – Statewise population by Religion |publisher=Censusindia.gov.in |accessdate=18 July 2010}}&lt;/ref&gt; of the population of Tamil Nadu are Hindus.&lt;br&gt;<br /> [[File:Erwadi kodi.jpg|200px|left|thumb|Erwadi durgah in Ramanathapuram district is the major pilgrimage shrine of the Tamil Muslims.]]<br /> In Tamil Nadu, Christians and Muslims account for 6% and 5.8% respectively.&lt;ref name=&quot;relpop&quot;/&gt; The majority of Muslims in Tamil Nadu speak Tamil,&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | last=More | first=J.B.P. | title=Muslim identity, print culture and the Dravidian factor in Tamil Nadu | publisher=Orient Longman | place=Hyderabad | year=2007 | isbn=978-81-250-2632-7}} at p. xv&lt;/ref&gt; with less than 15% of them reporting [[Urdu]] as their mother tongue.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | last=Jain | first=Dhanesh | contribution=Sociolinguistics of the Indo-Aryan languages | editor1-last=Cardona | editor1-first=George | editor2-last=Jain | editor2-first=Dhanesh | title=The Indo-Aryan Languages | publisher=Routledge | place=London | year=2003 | series=Routledge language family series | isbn=978-0-7007-1130-7 | pages=46–66}} at p. 57.&lt;/ref&gt; [[Tamil Jain]]s now number only a few thousand.&lt;ref name= census&gt;Total number of [[Tamil Jain|Jains]] in Tamil Nadu was 88,000 in 2001. {{Citation | title= Census|author= Directorate of Census Operations – Tamil Nadu| url= http://www.census.tn.nic.in/religion.aspx | accessdate=5 December 2006|archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20061130194120/http://www.census.tn.nic.in/religion.aspx |archivedate = 30 November 2006|url-status=dead}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Atheism|Atheist]], [[Rationalism|rationalist]], and [[Humanism|humanist]] philosophies are also adhered by sizeable minorities.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | last=Maloney | first=Clarence | title=Religious Beliefs and Social Hierarchy in Tamiḻ Nāḍu, India | journal=American Ethnologist | volume=2 | issue=1 | year=1975 | pages=169–91 | doi=10.1525/ae.1975.2.1.02a00100}} at p. 178&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:Tamil Om.svg|left|thumb|150px|The [[Om]] symbol in Tamil script]]<br /> <br /> The most popular Tamil Hindu deity is [[Murugan]]; he is known as the patron god of the Tamils and is also called &quot;Tamil Kadavul&quot; (Tamil God).&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Murukan in Cankam Literature: Veriyattu Tribal Worship|author= M. Shanmugam Pillai| work=First International Conference Seminar on Skanda-Murukan in Chennai, 28–30 December 1998. This article first appeared in the September 1999 issue of The Journal of the Institute of Asian Studies | url= http://murugan.org/research/shanmugampillai.htm | accessdate=6 December 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Harold G. Coward, John R. Hinnells, Raymond Brady Williams, ''The South Asian Religious Diaspora in Britain, Canada, and the United States''&lt;/ref&gt; In Tamil tradition, Murugan is the youngest and [[Ganesha|Pillaiyar]] the oldest son of [[Shiva|Sivan]] and [[Parvati]]. The goddess [[Parvati]] is often depicted as a goddess with green skin complexion in Tamil Hindu tradition. The worship of [[Amman (goddess)|Amman]], also called [[Mariamman]], thought to have been derived from an ancient [[mother goddess]], is also very common.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Principles and Practice of Hindu Religion| work=Hindu Heritage Study Program | url= http://www.bnaiyer.com/hinduism/hist-34.html | accessdate=5 December 2006|archiveurl = https://web.archive.org/web/20061114082702/http://www.bnaiyer.com/hinduism/hist-34.html |archivedate = 14 November 2006|url-status=dead}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Kannagi|Kan̲n̲agi]], the heroine of the [[Cilappatikaram|Cilappatikār̲am]], is worshipped as [[Pattini|Pattin̲i]] by many Tamils, particularly in Sri Lanka.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation|title=Tracing the Sri Lanka-Kerala link |author=P.K. Balachandran |work=Hindustan Times, 23 March 2006 |url=http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5983_1657214,00430014.htm |accessdate=5 December 2006 |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20061210184751/http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5983_1657214%2C00430014.htm |archivedate=10 December 2006 |url-status=dead }}&lt;/ref&gt; There are also many followers of [[Ayyavazhi]] in Tamil Nadu, mainly in the southern districts.&lt;ref&gt;''Dr. R. Ponnu''s, Sri Vaikunda Swamigal and the Struggle for Social Equality in South India, (Madurai Kamaraj University) ''Ram Publishers'', p. 98&lt;/ref&gt; In addition, there are many temples and devotees of [[Thirumal]], [[Shiva|Sivan]], [[Ganesha|Pillaiyar]], and the other Hindu deities.<br /> <br /> Muslims across Tamil Nadu follow [[Hanafi]] and [[Shafi'i]] schools while the Tamil Muslims in Sri Lanka follow the [[Shadhili]] school. While the [[Marakkar|Marakkayar]] and [[Kayalar (Muslim)|Kayalar]] sects claim descent from the [[Arab world]], the [[Rowther]] and [[Labbay|Lebbai]] sects claim descent from the [[Turkic peoples|Turkic world]]. All these sects have improvised Tamil vocabulary with peculiar loan words due to [[miscegenation]]. [[Erwadi]] in [[Ramanathapuram district]] and [[Nagore]] in [[Nagapattinam district]]&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.aulia-e-hind.com/Cities.htm|title=Indian Dargah's All Cities|website=Aulia-e-hind.com|accessdate=15 December 2017}}&lt;/ref&gt; are the major pilgrimage centres for Muslims in Tamil Nadu. Karpudayar mosque in [[Kayalpatnam]], Old Jumma mosque in [[Kilakarai]] and [[Kazimar Big Mosque]] in Madurai are among the oldest mosques of Tamil Muslims in Tamil Nadu.<br /> <br /> [[File:Ayyanar idols near Gobichettipalayam.jpg|right|thumb|170px|[[Aiyanar]] ({{lang-ta|ஐயனார், சாஸ்தா}}), guardian folk deity of Tamil Nadu]]<br /> <br /> Among the ancient Tamils the practice of erecting memorial stones (''[[hero stone|natukal]]'') had appeared, and it continued for quite a long time after the Sangam age, down to about the 16th century.&lt;ref name=&quot;shashi1996&quot;&gt;{{cite book|last=Shashi|first=S.S.|title=Encyclopaedia Indica: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh: Volume 100|year=1996|publisher=Anmol Publications}}&lt;/ref&gt; It was customary for people who sought victory in war to worship these [[hero stone]]s to bless them with victory.&lt;ref name=&quot;subramanium1980&quot;&gt;{{cite book|last=Subramanium|first=N.|title=Śaṅgam polity: the administration and social life of the Śaṅgam Tamils|year=1980|publisher=Ennes Publications}}&lt;/ref&gt; They often carry inscriptions displaying a variety of adornments, including [[bas relief]] panels, friezes, and figures on carved stone.&lt;ref name=&quot;kamat1&quot;&gt;{{cite web<br /> |url=http://www.kamat.com/database/content/hero-stones/index.htm<br /> |title=Hero-stone Memorials of India<br /> |publisher=Kamat Potpourri<br /> |accessdate=15 March 2007<br /> }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The most important Tamil festivals are [[Pongal (festival)|Pongal]], a [[harvest festival]] that occurs in mid-January, and Varudapirappu, the Tamil New Year, which occurs on 14 April. Both are celebrated by almost all Tamils, regardless of religion. The [[Hindu]] festival [[Diwali|Deepavali]] is celebrated with fanfare; other local [[Hindu]] festivals include [[Thaipusam]], Panguni Uttiram, and [[Adiperukku]]. While Adiperukku is celebrated with more pomp in the Cauvery region than in others, the Ayyavazhi Festival, [[Ayya Vaikunda Avataram]], is predominantly celebrated in the southern districts of [[Kanyakumari District]], [[Tirunelveli]], and [[Thoothukudi]].&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=2006030305790400.htm&amp;date=2006/03/03/&amp;prd=th&amp; Information on declaration of holiday on the event of birth anniversary of Vaikundar in ''The Hindu''] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20110727095534/http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=2006030305790400.htm&amp;date=2006%2F03%2F03%2F&amp;prd=th&amp; |date=27 July 2011 }}, The holiday for three Districts: ''Daily Thanthi'', Daily''(Tamil)'', Nagercoil Edition, 5 March 2006&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> In rural [[Tamil Nadu]], many local deities, called [[aiyyanar|aiyyan̲ārs]], are thought to be the spirits of local heroes who protect the village from harm.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Horse Shrines in Tamil India: Reflections on Modernity|author= Mark Jarzombek| journal= Future Anterior | url= http://web.mit.edu/mmj4/www/downloads/future_ant4_1.pdf | volume=4 | issue=1 | pages=18–36 | doi=10.1353/fta.0.0031|year= 2009|author-link= Mark Jarzombek}}&lt;/ref&gt; Their worship often centres around nadukkal, stones erected in memory of heroes who died in battle. This form of worship is mentioned frequently in classical literature and appears to be the surviving remnants of an ancient Tamil tradition.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= 'Hero stone' unearthed | work=The Hindu, 22 July 2006| url= http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/22/stories/2006072202680200.htm | accessdate=5 December 2006 | location=Chennai, India | date=22 July 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Muniandi|Munis]] are a group of guardian gods, who are worshiped by Tamils. The [[Saivism|Saivist]] tradition of Hinduism is significantly represented amongst Tamils, more so among Sri Lankan Tamils, although most of the Saivist places of religious significance are in [[North India|northern India]]. The [[Alvars]] and [[Nayanars]], who were predominantly Tamils, played a key role in the renaissance of [[Bhakti]] tradition in India. In the 10th century, the philosopher [[Ramanuja]] propagated the theory of [[Vishishtadvaita|Visishtadvaitam]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Redefining secularism | work=The Hindu, 18 March 2004 | url= http://www.hindu.com/2004/03/18/stories/2004031801941000.htm | accessdate=5 December 2006 | location=Chennai, India | date=18 March 2004|last1= Swamy|first1= Subramanian}}&lt;/ref&gt; [[Ramavataram|Kambaramayanam]] is the Tamil version of Hindu Epic [[Ramayana]], which was written by the Tamil poet [[Kambar (poet)|Kambar]] during 12 century. The Tamil version is smaller than the original [[Ramayana]] written by [[Valmiki]]. It's not a translation but tells the story in a different perspective.<br /> <br /> [[Tamil Jains]] constitute around 0.13% of the population of Tamil Nadu.&lt;ref name=&quot;relpop&quot;/&gt; Many of the rich [[Tamil literature]] works were written by Jains.&lt;ref&gt;Jaina Literature in Tamil, Prof. A. Chakravartis&lt;/ref&gt; According to [[George L. Hart]], the legend of the [[Tamil Sangams]] or literary assemblies was based on the Jain ''sangham'' at [[Madurai]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://tamil.berkeley.edu/html/chapter_1.html |archive-url=https://archive.today/19970709071128/http://tamil.berkeley.edu/html/chapter_1.html |url-status=dead |archive-date=9 July 1997 |title=The Milieu of the Ancient Tamil Poems, Prof. George Hart |date=9 July 1997 |accessdate=21 April 2012 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Martial traditions===<br /> <br /> Various martial arts including [[Kuttu Varisai]], [[Varma Kalai]], [[Silambam]], [[Adithada]], and [[Malla-yuddha|Malyutham]] are practised in [[Tamil Nadu]].&lt;ref&gt;Zarrilli, Phillip B. (1992) &quot;[http://www.spa.ex.ac.uk/drama/staff/kalari/healharm.html To Heal and/or To Harm: The Vital Spots in Two South Indian Martial Traditions]&quot;&lt;/ref&gt; The warm-up phase includes [[yoga]], meditation and breathing exercises. Silambam originated in ancient [[Tamilakam]] and was patronized by the Pandyans, Cholas and Cheras, who ruled over this region. ''Silapathiharam'', Tamil literature from the 2nd century CE, refers to the sale of Silamabam instructions, weapons and equipment to foreign traders.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://sports.indiapress.org/silambam.php/SPORTS|title=Martial Arts in India|website=Sports.indiapress.org|accessdate=15 December 2017}}&lt;/ref&gt; Since the early [[Sangam age]], there was a warlike culture in South India. War was regarded as an honorable sacrifice and fallen heroes and kings were worshiped in the form of a [[hero stone]]. Each warrior was trained in martial arts, horse riding and specialized in two of the weapons of that period: Vel (spear), Val (sword), and Vil (bow).&lt;ref&gt;South Asian Folklore: An Encyclopedia : Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka(2003), p. 386.&lt;/ref&gt; Heroic [[martyrdom]] was glorified in ancient Tamil literature. The Tamil kings and warriors followed an honour code similar to that of Japanese [[samurai]] and committed suicide to preserve honor. The forms of martial suicide were known as Avipalli, Thannai, Verttal, Marakkanchi, [[Vatakkiruttal]] and Punkilithu Mudiyum Maram. Avipalli was mentioned in all the works except ''Veera Soliyam''. It was a self-sacrifice of a warrior to the goddess of war for the victory of his commander.&lt;ref&gt;Ethnic Insurgency and National Integration: A Study of Selected Ethnic Problems in South Asia (1997) p. 114&lt;/ref&gt; The [[Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam|Tamil rebels]] in [[Sri Lanka]] reflected some elements of Tamil martial traditions which included worship of fallen heroes ([[Maaveerar Naal]]) and practice of martial suicide. They carried a [[suicide pill]] around their neck to escape captivity and torture.&lt;ref&gt;Sri Lankan Ethnic Crisis: Towards a Resolution (2002), p. 76.&lt;/ref&gt; A remarkable feature, besides their willingness to sacrifice, is that they were well organized and disciplined. It was forbidden for the rebels to consume [[tobacco]], [[alcohol (drug)|alcohol]], [[drug]]s and to have sexual relationships.&lt;ref&gt;Encyclopedia of Modern Worldwide Extremists and Extremist Groups, p. 252.&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [[File:Indian katar push dagger.jpg|thumb|left|156px|[[Katar (dagger)|Katar]], Tamil dagger which was popular throughout South Asia]]<br /> <br /> Among the ancient Tamils the practice of erecting memorial stones (''[[hero stone|natukal]]'') had appeared, and it continued for quite a long time after the Sangam age, down to about the 16th century.&lt;ref name=&quot;shashi1996&quot;/&gt; It was customary for people who sought victory in war to worship these [[hero stone]]s to bless them with victory.&lt;ref name=&quot;subramanium1980&quot;/&gt; They often carry inscriptions displaying a variety of adornments, including [[bas relief]] panels, friezes, and figures on carved stone.&lt;ref name=&quot;kamat1&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> The Wootz steel originated in South India and Sri Lanka.&lt;ref name=&quot;SR_IISc&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Gerald W. R. Ward. The Grove Encyclopedia of Materials and Techniques in Art. p. 380&lt;/ref&gt; There are several ancient Tamil, Greek, Chinese and Roman literary references to high carbon Indian steel since the time of [[Indian campaign of Alexander the Great|Alexander's India campaign]]. The crucible steel production process started in the sixth century BCE, at production sites of [[Kodumanal]] in [[Tamil Nadu]], [[Golconda]] in [[Andhra Pradesh]], [[Karnataka]] and [[Sri Lanka]] and exported globally; the Tamils of the [[Chera Dynasty]] producing what was termed ''the finest steel in the world'', i.e. Seric Iron to the Romans, Egyptians, Chinese and Arabs by 500 BCE.&lt;ref&gt;Sharada Srinivasan (1994). [https://pia-journal.co.uk/articles/abstract/10.5334/pia.60/ Wootz crucible steel: a newly discovered production site in South India]. Papers from the Institute of Archaeology 5(1994) 49–59 [[doi:10.5334/pia.60]]&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Herbert Henery Coghlan. (1977). Notes on prehistoric and early iron in the Old World. pp&amp;nbsp;99–100&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;B. Sasisekharan (1999).[http://www.new1.dli.ernet.in/data1/upload/insa/INSA_1/20005b66_263.pdf TECHNOLOGY OF IRON AND STEEL IN KODUMANAL-] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160201061259/http://www.new1.dli.ernet.in/data1/upload/insa/INSA_1/20005b66_263.pdf |date=1 February 2016 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The steel was exported as cakes of steely iron that came to be known as &quot;Wootz&quot;.&lt;ref name=&quot;Hilda Ellis Davidson p. 20&quot;&gt;Hilda Ellis Davidson. The Sword in Anglo-Saxon England: Its Archaeology and Literature. p. 20&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The [[Tamilakam]] method was to heat black magnetite ore in the presence of carbon in a sealed clay crucible inside a charcoal furnace. An alternative was to smelt the ore first to give wrought iron, then heated and hammered to be rid of slag. The carbon source was bamboo and leaves from plants such as [[Senna auriculata|avārai]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Hilda Ellis Davidson p. 20&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Burton 1884 111&quot;&gt;{{cite book|last=Burton|first=Sir Richard Francis|title=The Book of the Sword|year=1884|publisher=Chatto and Windus|location=Internet archive|isbn=978-1-60520-436-9|page=111|url=https://archive.org/details/booksword00unkngoog}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Chinese and locals in Sri Lanka adopted the production methods of creating Wootz steel from the Chera Tamils by the 5th century BCE.&lt;ref name=&quot;needham volume 4 part 1 282&quot;&gt;Needham, Volume 4, Part 1, p. 282.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Ancient and Medieval India. Vol.2 by Charlotte Speir Manning p.365&quot;&gt;{{Cite book | url = https://books.google.com/books?id=nmESJR3a0RYC&amp;pg=PA365 | title = Ancient and Medieval India. Volume 2 | isbn = 978-0-543-92943-3 | last1 = Manning | first1 = Charlotte Speir}}&lt;/ref&gt; In Sri Lanka, this early steel-making method employed a unique wind furnace, driven by the monsoon winds, capable of producing high-carbon steel. Production sites from antiquity have emerged, in places such as [[Anuradhapura]], [[Tissamaharama]] and [[Samanalawewa]], as well as imported artifacts of ancient iron and steel from Kodumanal. A [[Tissamaharama Tamil Brahmi inscription|200 BCE Tamil trade guild in Tissamaharama]], in the South East of Sri Lanka, brought with them some of the oldest iron and steel artifacts and production processes to the island from the [[classical antiquity|classical period]].&lt;ref&gt;Hobbies – Volume 68, Issue 5, p. 45. Lghtner Publishing Company (1963)&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Mahathevan&quot;&gt;{{cite news|url=http://www.hindu.com/2010/06/24/stories/2010062451701100.htm|title=An epigraphic perspective on the antiquity of Tamil|last=Mahathevan|first=Iravatham|date=24 June 2010|work=The Hindu|publisher=The Hindu Group|accessdate=31 October 2010}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Ragupathy&quot;&gt;{{cite news|url=http://www.tamilnet.com/art.html?catid=79&amp;artid=32303|title=Tissamaharama potsherd evidences ordinary early Tamils among population|last=Ragupathy|first=P|date=28 June 2010|work=Tamilnet|publisher=Tamilnet|accessdate=31 October 2010}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.archaeology.lk/http:/www.archaeology.lk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Dinithi-Volume-1-Issue-4.pdf] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20130903165502/http://www.archaeology.lk/http%3A/www.archaeology.lk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Dinithi-Volume-1-Issue-4.pdf |date=3 September 2013 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The Arabs introduced the South Indian/Sri Lankan wootz steel to [[Damascus steel|Damascus]], where an industry developed for making weapons of this steel. The 12th century Arab traveler [[Muhammad al-Idrisi|Edrisi]] mentioned the &quot;Hinduwani&quot; or Indian steel as the best in the world.&lt;ref name=&quot;SR_IISc&quot;&gt;{{cite book |author1=Sharada Srinivasan |author2=Srinivasa Ranganathan |title=India's Legendary Wootz Steel: An Advanced Material of the Ancient World|date=2004 |publisher=National Institute of Advanced Studies |oclc=82439861 |url=http://materials.iisc.ernet.in/~wootz/heritage/WOOTZ.htm }}&lt;/ref&gt; Another sign of its reputation is seen in a Persian phrase{{spaced ndash}}to give an &quot;Indian answer&quot;, meaning &quot;a cut with an Indian sword&quot;.&lt;ref name=&quot;Ancient and Medival India. Vol.2 by Charlotte Speir Manning p.365&quot;/&gt; Wootz steel was widely exported and traded throughout ancient [[Europe]] and the [[Arab world]], and became particularly famous in the [[Middle East]].&lt;ref name=&quot;Ancient and Medival India. Vol.2 by Charlotte Speir Manning p.365&quot;&gt;{{Cite book | url = https://books.google.com/books?id=nmESJR3a0RYC&amp;pg=PA365 | title = Ancient and Mediæval India. Volume 2 | isbn = 978-0-543-92943-3 | last1 = Manning | first1 = Charlotte Speir}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Traditional weapons====<br /> <br /> The Tamil martial arts also includes various types of weapons.<br /> <br /> {{columns-list|colwidth=20em|<br /> * [[Valari]] (throwing stick)<br /> * [[Maduvu]] (deer horns)<br /> * [[Urumi|Surul vaal]] (curling blade)<br /> * [[sword|Vaal]] (sword) + [[shield|Ketayam]] (shield)<br /> * [[spear|Itti]] or [[Vel]] (spear)<br /> * [[Savuku]] (whip)<br /> * [[Katar (dagger)|Kattari]] (fist blade)<br /> * [[Aruval|Veecharuval]] (battle machete)<br /> * [[Silambam]] (long bamboo staff)<br /> * [[knuckleduster|Kuttu katai]] (spiked knuckleduster)<br /> * [[dagger|Katti]] (dagger/knife)<br /> * [[Bow and arrow|Vil]] (bow) + [[Bow and arrow|Ambu]] (arrow)<br /> * [[Gada (mace)|Tantayutam]] (mace)<br /> * [[Trishula|Soolam]] (trident)<br /> * [[Theekutchi]] (flaming baton)<br /> * [[Yeratthai mulangkol]] (dual stick)<br /> * [[Yeretthai Vaal]] (dual sword)<br /> <br /> }}<br /> <br /> ===Visual art and architecture===<br /> {{See also|Chola art|Dravidian architecture|Tamil architecture}}<br /> [[File:Nataraja01.jpg|150px|thumb|left|upright|Dancing Siva or [[Nataraja]], example of [[Chola Empire]] bronze]]<br /> [[File:Thanjavur temple.jpg|thumb|right|150px|The Brihadeshswara Temple at [[Thanjavur]], also known as the Great Temple, built by [[Rajaraja Chola I]]]]<br /> <br /> Most traditional art is religious in some form and usually centres on [[Hinduism]], although the religious element is often only a means to represent universal—and, occasionally, [[humanism|humanist]]—themes.&lt;ref&gt;Coomaraswamy, A.K., ''Figures of Speech or Figures of Thought''&lt;/ref&gt; &lt;!--The classical art forms are &quot;living traditions, which are&quot; redundant continually practised.--&gt;<br /> <br /> The most important form of Tamil painting is [[Tanjore painting]], which originated in [[Thanjavur]] in the 9th century. The painting's base is made of cloth and coated with [[zinc oxide]], over which the image is painted using dyes; it is then decorated with semi-precious stones, as well as silver or gold thread.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Tanjore – Painting |work= tanjore.net | url= http://www.tanjore.net/tanjorepainting.htm | publisher=Tanjore.net|accessdate=4 December 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; A style which is related in origin, but which exhibits significant differences in execution, is used for painting [[mural]]s on temple walls; the most notable example are the murals on the [[Koodal Azhagar temple]] and [[Meenakshi temple]] of [[Madurai]], and the [[Brihadeeswarar temple]] of [[Tanjore]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | last=Nayanthara | first=S. | title=The World of Indian murals and paintings | publisher=Chillbreeze | year=2006 | isbn=978-81-904055-1-5}} at pp. 55–57&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Tamil sculpture ranges from elegant stone sculptures in temples, to [[bronze]] icons with exquisite details.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Shilpaic literature of the tamils |work=V. Ganapathi | url= http://www.intamm.com/arts/ancient.htm| publisher=INTAMM|accessdate=4 December 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; The medieval Chola bronzes are considered to be one of India's greatest contributions to world art.&lt;ref name=&quot;div_images&quot;&gt;{{Citation<br /> | author = Aschwin Lippe<br /> |date= December 1971<br /> | title = Divine Images in Stone and Bronze: South India, Chola Dynasty (c. 850–1280)<br /> | journal = Metropolitan Museum Journal<br /> | volume = 4<br /> | pages = 29–79<br /> |quote = The bronze icons of Early Chola period are one of India's greatest contribution to world art&amp;nbsp;...<br /> | doi = 10.2307/1512615<br /> | jstor=1512615}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;royalacademy&quot;&gt;{{Citation|title=Heaven sent: Michael Wood explores the art of the Chola dynasty |url=http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/ra-magazine/winter2006/features/heven-sent,47,RAMA.html |publisher=Royal Academy, UK |accessdate=26 April 2007 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20070303072704/http://www.royalacademy.org.uk/ra-magazine/winter2006/features/heven-sent%2C47%2CRAMA.html |archivedate=3 March 2007 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Unlike most Western art, the material in Tamil sculpture does not influence the form taken by the sculpture; instead, the artist imposes his/her vision of the form on the material.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation|first=Carmel |last=Berkson|title=The Life of Form in Indian Sculpture |publisher=Abhinav Publications|year=2000|isbn=978-81-7017-376-2|chapter=II The Life of Form pp. 29–65}}&lt;/ref&gt; As a result, one often sees in stone sculptures flowing forms that are usually reserved for metal.&lt;ref&gt;Sivaram 1994&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Music===<br /> {{See also|Music of Tamil Nadu|Ancient Tamil music}}<br /> <br /> Ancient Tamil works, such as the ''[[Cilappatikaram]]'', describe a [[Ancient Tamil music|system of music]],&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | last=Nijenhuis | first=Emmie te | title=Indian Music: History and Structure | publisher=Brill | place=Leiden | year=1974 | isbn=978-90-04-03978-0}} at pp. 4–5&lt;/ref&gt; and a 7th-century Pallava inscription at Kudimiyamalai contains one of the earliest surviving examples of Indian music in notation.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | last=Widdess | first=D.R. | contribution=The Kudumiyamalai inscription: a source of early Indian music in notation | editor-last=Picken | editor-first=Laurence | title=Musica Asiatica | volume=2 | place=London | publisher=Oxford University Press | year=1979 | pages=115–50}}&lt;/ref&gt; Contemporary dance forms such as [[Bharatanatyam]] have recent origins but are based on older temple dance forms known as ''Catir Kacceri'' as practised by [[courtesans]] and a class of women known as ''[[Devadasis]]''.&lt;ref name=Leslie&gt;Leslie, Julia. '' Roles and rituals for Hindu women, pp. 149–152&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Performing arts===<br /> [[File:Flickr - dalbera - Danseuses de Kuchipudi (musée Guimet).jpg|thumb|right|210px|[[Bharatanatyam]] dancers]]<br /> <br /> Famous Tamil dance styles are<br /> {{columns-list|colwidth=20em|<br /> * [[Bharatanatyam]] (Tamil classical dance)<br /> * [[Karakattam]] (Tamil ancient folk dance)<br /> * [[Koothu]] (A folk and street dance)<br /> * [[Parai|Parai attam]] (A folk drums and dance)<br /> * [[Kavadi]]attam (dedicated to the Tamil God [[Murugan]])<br /> * [[Kummi]]yattam (female folk dance)<br /> * [[Bommalattam (dance)|Bommalattam]] (Puppet dance)<br /> * [[Puliyattam]] (Tiger dance)<br /> * [[Mayilattam]] (Peacock dance)<br /> * [[Paampu attam]] (Snake dance)<br /> * [[Oyilattam]] (Dance of Grace)<br /> * [[Poikkaal Kuthirai Aattam]] (False legged horses dance)<br /> }}<br /> <br /> Contemporary dance forms such as [[Bharatanatyam]] have recent origins but are based on older temple dance forms known as ''Catir Kacceri'' as practised by [[courtesans]] and a class of women known as ''[[Devadasis]]''.&lt;ref name=&quot;Leslie&quot;/&gt;<br /> One of the Tamil [[folk dance]]s is ''[[karakattam]]''. In its religious form, the dance is performed in front of an image of the goddess [[Mariamma]].&lt;ref&gt;Sharma, Manorama (2004). Folk India: A Comprehensive Study of Indian Folk Music and Culture, Vol. 11&lt;/ref&gt; The ''kuravanci'' is a type of dance-drama, performed by four to eight women. The drama is opened by a woman playing the part of a female [[Fortune-telling|soothsayer]] of the ''[[kurava]]'' tribe (people of hills and mountains), who tells the story of a lady pining for her lover. The [[Koothu|therukoothu]], literally meaning &quot;street play&quot;, is a form of village theater or folk opera. It is traditionally performed in village squares, with no sets and very simple props.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://tamilnadu.com/arts/therukoothu.html |title=Therukoothu |publisher=Tamilnadu.com |date=16 February 2013 |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://archive.today/20130411213929/http://tamilnadu.com/arts/therukoothu.html |archivedate=11 April 2013 }}&lt;/ref&gt; The performances involve songs and dances, and the stories can be either religious or [[secularity|secular]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation| title=Tamil Art History| url=http://www.eelavar.com/jaffna/pageview.php?ID=578&amp;SID=119| publisher=eelavar.com| accessdate=5 December 2006| url-status=dead| archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20060427073449/http://www.eelavar.com/jaffna/pageview.php?ID=578&amp;SID=119| archivedate=27 April 2006| df=dmy-all}}&lt;/ref&gt; The performances are not formal, and performers often interact with the audience, mocking them, or involving them in the dialogue. Therukkūthu has, in recent times, been very successfully adapted to convey social messages, such as [[abstinence]] and [[caste|anti-caste]] criticism, as well as information about legal rights, and has spread to other parts of India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Striving hard to revive and refine ethnic dance form | url= http://www.hindu.com/mp/2006/11/11/stories/2006111100670300.htm|publisher= hindu.com | accessdate=5 December 2006 | location=Chennai, India | date=11 November 2006|newspaper= The Hindu}}&lt;/ref&gt; Tamil Nadu also has a well developed stage theatre tradition, which has been influenced by western theatre. A number of theatrical companies exist, with repertoires including [[absurdist fiction|absurdist]], [[Realism (arts)|realist]], and [[comedy|humorous]] plays.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= Bhagavata mela | work= The Hindu, 30 April 2004 | url= http://www.hindu.com/fr/2004/04/30/stories/2004043001360600.htm|publisher= hindu.com | accessdate=5 December 2006 | location=Chennai, India | date=30 April 2004}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Film and theater arts====<br /> {{main|Tamil cinema|Tamil television soap opera}}<br /> Theatrical culture flourished among Tamils during the classical age. Tamil theatre has a long and varied history whose origins can be traced back almost two millennia to dance-theatre forms like ''Kotukotti'' and ''Pandarangam'', which are mentioned in an ancient anthology of poems entitled the ''Kalingathu Parani''.&lt;ref&gt;Dennis Kennedy &quot;The Oxford Encyclopedia of Theatre and Performance, Publisher:Oxford University Press&lt;/ref&gt; The modern Tamil film industry originated during the 20th century. Tamil film industry has its headquarters in [[Chennai]] and is known as [[Kollywood]]; it is the second largest film industry in India after [[Bollywood]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation | title= The states they're in | url= http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,,1955127,00.html|work= Guardian| accessdate=5 December 2006 | location=London | first=Tom | last=Templeton | date=26 November 2006}}&lt;/ref&gt; Films from Kollywood entertain audiences not only in India but also overseas [[Tamil diaspora]]. Tamil films from Chennai have been distributed to various overseas theatres in Singapore, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Malaysia, Japan, Oceania, the Middle East, Western Europe, and North America.&lt;ref&gt;{{Citation|title=Eros buys Tamil film distributor |work=[[Business Standard]] |url=http://www.business-standard.com/indi/storypage.php?autono=290977 |date=6 October 2011 }}{{dead link|date=June 2016|bot=medic}}{{cbignore|bot=medic}}&lt;/ref&gt; Independent Tamil film production inspired by Kollywood originated outside India in Sri Lanka, Singapore, Canada, and western Europe. Several Tamil actresses such as Anuisa Ranjan [[Vyjayanthimala]], [[Hema Malini]], [[Rekha Ganesan]], [[Sridevi]], [[Meenakshi Sheshadri]], and [[Vidya Balan]] have acted in [[Bollywood]] and dominated the cinema over the years. Some Chief Ministers of Tamil Nadu like [[MG Ramachandran]], [[Karunanidhi]] and [[Jayalalithaa]] have their background in the Tamil film industry.<br /> <br /> ===Sports in Tamil Nadu===<br /> {{Main|Sports in Tamil Nadu}}<br /> The people of Tamil Nadu play traditional sports and sports from other countries. Tamil Nadu has some notable players in each sport.<br /> <br /> # [[Jallikattu]]: Jallikattu is a bull-taming sport in Tamil Nadu, over 2000 years old and an integral part of Tamil culture. In Ancient times, two bull-taming and bull-racing sports were conducted: manjuvirattu and yeruthazhuval. These sports were organised to keep the people's temperament always fit and ready for war at any time. Each has its own techniques and rules. These sports acted as one of the criteria for marrying girls of a warrior family. There were traditions where the winner would be chosen as bridegroom for their daughter or sister. On the other hand, the untamable bulls were held as a pride of the owner/village and used for breeding the cows. Unlike western [[bullfighting]], bulls and warriors participated in the sport year after year. The ancient Tamil art of unarmed bull taming, popular amongst warriors in the classical period,&lt;ref name=&quot;jallikattu_ebook&quot;&gt;{{Citation|url=https://books.google.com/?id=o56i5ymOIBkC&amp;pg=PA159dq=jallikattu+history|title=Google books version of the book ''A Western Journalist on India: The Ferengi's Columns'' by François Gautier|accessdate =24 May 2007|isbn=978-81-241-0795-9|author1=Gautier, François|year=2001}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;jallikattu_nytimes&quot;&gt;{{Citation|url=http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/travel/21webletter.html|title=NY Times: ''The ritual dates back as far as 2,000 years&amp;nbsp;...''|accessdate =24 May 2007| work=The New York Times| first=Daniel| last=Grushkin| date=22 March 2007}}&lt;/ref&gt; has also survived in parts of [[Tamil Nadu]], notably [[Alanganallur]] near [[Madurai]], where it is known as [[jallikattu]] and is held once a year around the time of the [[Pongal (festival)|Pongal]] festival.<br /> # [[Kabaddi]]: A traditional sport that originated in [[Tamil Nadu]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|title=International Sport Management|publisher=Human Kinetics|isbn=978-0-7360-8273-0|page=183|url=https://books.google.com/?id=BX6QSQAACAAJ&amp;dq=kabaddi|accessdate=22 August 2015|date=May 2010}}&lt;/ref&gt; The word &quot;Kabaddi&quot; is probably derived from Tamil word &quot;kai-pidi&quot; (&quot;to hold hands&quot;).&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.memidex.com/kabaddi|title=kabaddi, etymology|publisher=memidex.com|access-date=13 July 2015}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> # Mattu Vandy Elgai Panthayam (Reckla Race): [[Bullock cart]] racing is mostly celebrated in southern Tamil Nadu.<br /> # [[Silambam]] (Staff fencing): Silambam is a martial art originated in the ancient [[Tamilakam]]. In 1978, the Tamil Nadu government and Tamil Nadu Olympic Federation recognised silambam as a traditional sport, but it was not recognised by the Sports Ministry of India and [[Indian Olympic Association]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news|title=Traditional martial arts not given due importance|url=http://newstodaynet.com/chennai/traditional-martial-arts-not-given-due-importance|publisher=newstodaynet.com|access-date=21 January 2016|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160122172521/http://newstodaynet.com/chennai/traditional-martial-arts-not-given-due-importance|archive-date=22 January 2016|url-status=dead}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> # [[Cricket]]: More people are interested in cricket. Notable players from Tamil Nadu are [[Srinivasaraghavan Venkataraghavan]], [[Krishnamachari Srikkanth]], [[Laxman Sivaramakrishnan]], [[Lakshmipathy Balaji]], [[Baba Aparajith]], [[Murali Vijay]], [[Ravichandran Ashwin]], [[Murugan Ashwin]], [[Sadagoppan Ramesh]] and [[Dinesh Karthik]]. It should also be mentioned that the prominent Sri Lankan cricketer Muttiah Muralidharan, who currently holds the test match record of 800 wickets in a career, is also a Tamil of Tamil Nadu descent. In Chennai [[M. A. Chidambaram Stadium]] is present with a capacity of 50,000.<br /> # [[Chess]]: Chess is a widely popular game in the state. The [[Tamil Nadu State Chess Association]] (TNSCA) is the apex body for the game of chess in Tamil Nadu. Viswanathan &quot;Vishy&quot; Anand is an Indian chess Grandmaster and former World Chess Champion. Described by chess commentator Lubomir Kavalek as one of the most versatile world champions ever, Anand has won the World Chess Championship five times (2000, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012), and was the undisputed World Champion from 2007 to 2013.<br /> # [[Hockey]]: Fewer people are interested in hockey. Sports Development Authority of Tamil Nadu is planning to set up a hockey academy.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news|title=Veteran hockey players delighted with synthetic turf in Tiruchi|url=http://www.hindu.com/2011/01/25/stories/2011012559450200.htm|newspaper=The Hindu|date=25 January 2011|location=Tiruchi, India}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> # [[Squash (sport)|Squash]]: [[Joshna Chinappa]], [[Dipika Pallikal]] are the notable players.<br /> # [[Swimming (sport)|Swimming]]: [[Kutraleeswaran]] is a notable swimmer.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url=http://www.rediff.com/sports/2005/oct/06spec.htm|title=Why Kutraleeswaran stopped swimming|author=Shobha Warrier|date=6 October 2005|website= |publisher=Rediff India – Sports|accessdate=12 June 2013}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> # [[Tennis]]: [[Chennai Open]] is a professional tennis tournament organised in Chennai every January. Notable players are [[Ramesh Krishnan]], [[Ramanathan Krishnan]], [[Vijay Amritraj]], [[Mahesh Bhupathi]] and [[Nirupama Vaidyanathan]].<br /> # [[Motor racing]]: The sport was pioneered by [[Sundaram Karivardhan]] (1954–95) in its early days. Motor racing between the 1960s and 1980s was conducted at Sholavaram, a track used as a World War II air strip.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news|title=Memories of Madras: From Sholavaram to Irungattukottai|url=http://www.thehindu.com/features/friday-review/history-and-culture/memories-of-madras-from-sholavaram-to-irungattukottai/article2528390.ece|newspaper=The Hindu|date=11 October 2011|location=India}}&lt;/ref&gt; Modern motor racing events are held at the Irungattukottai Race Track owned and operated by Madras Motor Sports Club near Sriperumbudur and [[Kari Motor Speedway]] near Coimbatore. The people representing India in Formula 1 are from Tamil Nadu, namely [[Narain Karthikeyan]] and [[Karun Chandhok]]. In F2 European season held in 2010, [[Parthiva Sureshwaren]] and [[Ajith Kumar]] represented India.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news|title=Ajith Kumar to drive in F2 European season 2010|url=http://www.thehindu.com/sport/motorsport/ajith-kumar-to-drive-in-f2-european-season-2010/article304221.ece|newspaper=The Hindu|date=25 March 2010|location=Chennai, India}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> # [[Volleyball]]: Tamil Nadu team won gold in national level men's volleyball competition held in 2011.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news|title=Tamil Nadu bags volleyball gold|url=http://www.thehindu.com/sport/other-sports/tamil-nadu-bags-volleyball-gold/article1466227.ece|newspaper=The Hindu|date=18 February 2011|location=Ranchi, India}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> # [[Archery]]: Srither won gold at the Asian Archery Championship held at Indonesia in November 2009.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news|title=Champion archer Srither felicitated|url=http://www.hindu.com/2009/12/31/stories/2009123159902000.htm|newspaper=The Hindu|date=31 December 2009|location=Chennai, India}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> # [[Association football|Football]]: The [[Tamil Nadu football team]] represented Tamil Nadu for the [[Santosh Trophy]].<br /> # [[Paralympic games]]: [[Mariyappan Thangavelu]] has won the gold medal in the finals of [[2016 Summer Paralympics|2016 Summer Paralympic games]] held in [[Rio de Janeiro]].&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://sportscafe.in/articles/sports/2016/sep/10/paralympics-2016-mariyappan-thangavelu-wins-indias-first-gold-in-rio|title=Paralympics 2016 {{!}} Mariyappan Thangavelu wins India's first gold in Rio|date=10 September 2016|access-date=14 September 2016}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;golden_leap&quot;&gt;{{cite news|last1=Stalin|first1=J. Sam Daniel|title=Paralympian Mariyappan Thangavelu's Golden Leap From Poverty|url=http://sports.ndtv.com/othersports/news/262708-paralympian-mariyappan-thangavelu-s-golden-leap-from-poverty|accessdate=10 September 2016|work=NDTV Sports|date=10 September 2016|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160910123616/http://sports.ndtv.com/othersports/news/262708-paralympian-mariyappan-thangavelu-s-golden-leap-from-poverty|archive-date=10 September 2016|url-status=dead}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Tamil cuisine===<br /> {{Main|Tamil cuisine}}<br /> <br /> Tamil cuisine includes vegetarian and non-vegetarian food. Some Tamils, especially those belonging to the [[Brahmin]] caste are vegetarian because of religious reasons.&lt;ref&gt;Historical Dictionary of the Tamils, Vijaya Ramaswamy, Scarecrow Press, 22 May 2007.&lt;/ref&gt; [[Rice]] has great importance in Tamil culture. Tamil people were among the first peoples who cultivated rice; the word &quot;rice&quot; probably has its origin in Tamil word &quot;Arisi&quot;.&lt;ref&gt;A South Indian Journey: The Smile of Murugan, Michael Wood (2002), p. 76.&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;Hobson-Jobson: The Definitive Glossary of British India, Henry Yule, A.C. Burnell, Kate Teltscher (2013), p. 442.&lt;/ref&gt; Rice is mostly eaten with vegetarian and non-vegetarian curries. Traditionally, the Tamils sit on the ground and the food is served on a banana leaf. The traditional foods are eaten with the right hand. Dishes such as [[dosa]], [[idli]], and [[vada (food)|vadai]] are served with [[sambar (dish)|sambar]], [[chutney]] or in Sri Lanka with [[pol sambola|coconut sambal]]. [[Rasam]] replaces soup in Tamil cuisine. The Tamil cuisine in Sri Lanka differs little from that of South India.&lt;ref&gt;Mangoes &amp; Curry Leaves: Culinary Travels Through the Great Subcontinent, Jeffrey Alford, Naomi Duguid, Artisan Books, 1 November 2005, p. 146.&lt;/ref&gt; A famous [[Sri Lankan Tamil]] specialty is [[kottu|kottu roti]], available in most Sri Lankan restaurants in the country and abroad.<br /> <br /> ==Notable Tamil people==<br /> {{Main|List of Tamil people}}<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{Portal|Tamils|India}}<br /> * [[List of countries where Tamil is an official language]]<br /> * [[List of languages by first written accounts]]<br /> * [[Tamil keyboard]]<br /> * [[Tamil population by cities]]<br /> * [[Tamil population by nation]]<br /> * [[Tamil Loanwords in other languages]]<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note}}<br /> <br /> ==Sources==<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{Refbegin|30em}}<br /> * Bowers, F. (1956). ''Theatre in the East – A Survey of Asian Dance and Drama''. New York: Grove Press.<br /> * Casson, L. (1989). ''The Periplus Maris Erythraei: Text with Introduction, Translation and Commentary''. Princeton, Princeton University Press. {{ISBN|0-691-04060-5}}.<br /> * Chaitanya, Krishna (1971). ''A history of Malayalam literature''. New Delhi: Orient Longman. {{ISBN|81-250-0488-2}}.<br /> * {{Citation |last1= Chopra|first1= P.N.|last2= Ravindran|first2= T.K.|last3=Subrahmanian|first3= N|title= History of South India (Ancient, Medieval and Modern) Part 1|origyear=2003|year=2003|publisher= Chand Publications|location=New Delhi|isbn= 978-81-219-0153-6}}<br /> * Coomaraswamy, A.K. (1946). ''Figures of Speech or Figures of Thought''. London: Luzac &amp; Co.<br /> * {{Citation |last=de Silva |first= Chandra Richard |title= Sri Lanka – A History | edition = 2, illustrated | year=1997 |publisher=Vikas Pub. House |isbn=978-0-9510710-2-1 }}<br /> * {{Citation | last = de Silva | first = K. M. | title = A History of Sri Lanka | publisher = Vijitha Yapa |year=2005 | location = [[Colombo]] | isbn = 978-955-8095-92-8}}<br /> * Gadgil, M. &amp; Joshi, N.V. &amp; Shambu Prasad, U.V. &amp; Manoharan, S. &amp; Patil, S. (1997). &quot;Peopling of India.&quot; In D. Balasubramanian and N. Appaji Rao (eds.), ''The Indian Human Heritage'', pp.&amp;nbsp;100–129. Hyderabad: Universities Press. {{ISBN|81-7371-128-3}}.<br /> * Hart, G.L. (1975). ''The Poems of Ancient Tamil: Their Milieu and their Sanskrit Counterparts''. Berkeley: University of California Press. {{ISBN|0-520-02672-1}}.<br /> * Hart, G.L. (1979). &quot;The Nature of Tamil Devotion.&quot; In M.M. Deshpande and P.E. Hook (eds.), ''Aryan and Non-Aryan in India'', pp.&amp;nbsp;11–33. Michigan: Ann Arbor. {{ISBN|0-89148-014-5}}.<br /> * Hart, G.L. (1987). &quot;Early Evidence for Caste in South India.&quot; In P. Hockings (ed.), ''Dimensions of Social Life: Essays in honor of David B. Mandelbaum''. Berlin: Mouton Gruyter.<br /> * [[Mark Jarzombek]], &quot;Horse Shrines in Tamil India: Reflections on Modernity&quot;, Future Anterior, (4/1), pp 18–36.<br /> * [[Iravatham Mahadevan|Mahadevan, Iravatham]] (2003). ''Early Tamil Epigraphy from the Earliest Times to the Sixth Century A.D. Cambridge, Harvard University Press''. {{ISBN|0-674-01227-5}}.<br /> * {{Citation |last= Keay|first= John|title= India: A History|origyear=2000|year=2000|publisher= Grove Publications|location= New York|isbn= 978-0-8021-3797-5}}<br /> * Parpola, Asko (1974). &quot;On the protohistory of the Indian languages in the light of archaeological, linguistic and religious evidence: An attempt at integration.&quot; In van Lohuizen, J.E. de Leeuw &amp; Ubaghs, J.M.M. (eds.), ''South Asian Archaeology 1973'', pp.&amp;nbsp;90–100. Leiden: E.J. Brill.<br /> * Parpola, Asko (2003). ''Deciphering the Indus script'' (2nd ed.). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. {{ISBN|0-521-79566-4}}.<br /> * Pillai, Suresh B. (1976). ''Introduction to the study of temple art''. Thanjavur: Equator and Meridian.<br /> * Ramaswamy, Sumathi (1998). ''Passions of the Tongue: language devotion in Tamil India 1891–1970''. Delhi: Munshiram. {{ISBN|81-215-0851-7}}.<br /> * {{Citation |last= Sastri|first= K.A. Nilakanta|title= A history of South India from prehistoric times to the fall of Vijayanagar|origyear=1955|year=2002|publisher= Indian Branch, Oxford University Press|location= New Delhi|isbn= 978-0-19-560686-7}}<br /> * Sastri, K.S. Ramaswamy (2002). ''The Tamils: The People, Their History and Culture'', Vol. 1: ''An Introduction to Tamil History and Society''. New Delhi: Cosmo Publications. {{ISBN|81-7755-406-9}}.<br /> * Sharma, Manorama (2004). ''Folk India: A Comprehensive Study of Indian Folk Music and Culture'', Vol. 11: ''Tamil Nadu and Kerala''. New Delhi: Sundeep Prakashan. {{ISBN|81-7574-141-4}}.<br /> * Sivaram, Rama (1994). ''Early Chola Art: Origin and Emergence of Style''. New Delhi: Navrang. {{ISBN|81-7013-079-4}}.<br /> * {{Citation | last=Subramanian | first=T.S. | title='Rudimentary Tamil-Brahmi script' unearthed at Adichanallur | date=17 February 2005 | newspaper=The Hindu | url=http://www.hindu.com/2005/02/17/stories/2005021704471300.htm | location=Chennai, India}}<br /> * International Tamil Organisation (2011). [https://web.archive.org/web/20110319062539/http://tamilsociety.org/ &quot;Tamil Society Organisation&quot;]<br /> * {{Citation|last1=Suryanarayan |first1=V. |year=2001 |title=In search of a new identity |url=http://www.flonnet.com/fl1816/18160950.htm |journal=Frontline |volume=18 |issue=16 |page=2 |postscript=. |url-status=dead |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20050208230112/http://www.flonnet.com/fl1816/18160950.htm |archivedate=8 February 2005 }}<br /> * Swaminatha Iyer, S.S. (1910). ''A Brief History of the Tamil Country'', Part 1: ''The Cholas''. Tanjore: G.S. Maniya.<br /> * Varadpande, M.L. (1992). ''Loka Ranga: Panorama of Indian Folk Theatre''. New Delhi: Abhinav Publications. {{ISBN|81-7017-278-0}}.<br /> * {{cite book | isbn = 978-0-8129-7146-0 | title = The Journey of Man : A Genetic Odyssey | last1 = Wells | first1 = Spencer | year = 2004 | publisher = Random House Trade Paperbacks | location = New York, NY }}<br /> * Zvebil, K. (1974). ''The Smile of Murugan: On Tamil Literature of South India''. Leiden: Brill. {{ISBN|90-04-03591-5}}.<br /> * Indrapala, K (2007). ''The evolution of an ethnic identity: The Tamils of Sri Lanka''. Colombo: Vijitha Yapa. {{ISBN|978-955-1266-72-1}}.<br /> * {{Citation|last=Leslie|first=Julia|title=Roles and rituals for Hindu women|url=https://books.google.com/?id=sKDm8EH2L3kC&amp;pg=PA149&amp;dq=Bharatanatyam#v=onepage&amp;q=Bharatanatyam&amp;f=false|date=June 1992|publisher=South Asia Books|isbn=978-81-208-1036-5}}.<br /> * Patil, S. (1997). &quot;Peopling of India.&quot; In D. Balasubramanian and N. Appaji Rao (eds.), ''The Indian Human Heritage''.<br /> {{Refend}}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> {{Z148}}&lt;!-- {{No more links}}<br /> <br /> Please be cautious adding more external links.<br /> <br /> Wikipedia is not a collection of links and should not be used for advertising.<br /> <br /> Excessive or inappropriate links will be removed.<br /> <br /> See [[Wikipedia:External links]] and [[Wikipedia:Spam]] for details.<br /> <br /> If there are already suitable links, propose additions or replacements on<br /> the article's talk page, or submit your link to the relevant category at<br /> the Open Directory Project (dmoz.org) and link there using {{Dmoz}}.<br /> <br /> --&gt;<br /> * [https://www.britannica.com/topic/Tamil Tamils] ''[[Encyclopædia Britannica]]'' entry<br /> * [https://www.tamilnation.org/ Tamils - A Trans State Nation]<br /> <br /> {{Tamil Nadu}}<br /> {{Ethnic Groups of India|collapsed}}<br /> <br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:Tamil People}}<br /> [[Category:Tamil people| ]]<br /> [[Category:Dravidian peoples]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in India]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in Sri Lanka]]<br /> [[Category:Ethnic groups in Malaysia]]<br /> [[Category:Articles containing video clips]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=940560566 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-02-13T07:07:49Z <p>Ilber8000: </p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=C|importance=low|assess-date=February 2020}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} He seems to be back and evading ban. <br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.66}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.42}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.50}} <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> <br /> I think he is IP hopping? [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{re|Ilber8000}} I've blocked the range. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:56, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} he seems to be back again and IP hopping, similar vandalism. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 05:17, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> * {{Checkip|1=81.10.217.91}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=117.254.65.252}}<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. 2019==<br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below:<br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;If one of these population fits, it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that poten-tially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Ah, I see it now. Thank you. [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 16:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Chronological order of info ==<br /> <br /> * I've moved the ANI_ASI downwards, to create a more chronological order. Some of it's info could be moved further to other places.<br /> * This section, by the way, contains a lot of doublures. <br /> * The Iranian neolithic farmer hypothesis has to be adjusted, given Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> * The Holocene section is now very short, but can serve as an introductory overview. Da Silva et al. (2017), [https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 ''A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals''] should be mentioned; they argue for various post-glacial, pre-farmer migrations into South Asia. This collaborates the early date of western Eurasian ancestry in South Asia, found by Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> I'm a bit in a hurry now, but I'll work on this further. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:31, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> : {{ping|Joshua Jonathan}} Thank you, the Negrito section and [[Andamanese people]] page also needs some clean up. It's all repetition. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 22:30, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> ::Done. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:57, 1 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==LGM==<br /> LGM section: Silva et al (2018) study claims mtdna N1a1b1 arrived from Near East during 21 ybp and further Near Eastern mtdna clades W4, HV + 16311!, HV12b,I1, U7a and J1b1b1 spread to South Asia in the Late Glacial period, 16–13 ka (4.5% of west eurasian mtdna in their dataset). But, they're data-set includes Baloch &amp; Jewish Indians who are medieval migrants, and they point out they carry near eastern ancestry but (in contrast) the study says South Asians do not carry Near Eastern ancestry ''&quot;However, this component is virtually absent in other South Asians (including Muslims) except for Jewish groups&quot;''. They don't specify which South Asian group carries this N1a1b1 mtdna for some reason, which would be very helpful. I'll remove this for time being considering Shinde et al gives 13kya as arrival time frame for west eurasian ancestry based on Rakhigarhi aDNA. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 06:41, 13 February 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=940559499 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-02-13T06:56:45Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Chronological order of info */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=C|importance=low|assess-date=February 2020}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} He seems to be back and evading ban. <br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.66}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.42}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.50}} <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> <br /> I think he is IP hopping? [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{re|Ilber8000}} I've blocked the range. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:56, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} he seems to be back again and IP hopping, similar vandalism. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 05:17, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> * {{Checkip|1=81.10.217.91}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=117.254.65.252}}<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. 2019==<br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below:<br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;If one of these population fits, it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that poten-tially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Ah, I see it now. Thank you. [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 16:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Chronological order of info ==<br /> <br /> * I've moved the ANI_ASI downwards, to create a more chronological order. Some of it's info could be moved further to other places.<br /> * This section, by the way, contains a lot of doublures. <br /> * The Iranian neolithic farmer hypothesis has to be adjusted, given Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> * The Holocene section is now very short, but can serve as an introductory overview. Da Silva et al. (2017), [https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 ''A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals''] should be mentioned; they argue for various post-glacial, pre-farmer migrations into South Asia. This collaborates the early date of western Eurasian ancestry in South Asia, found by Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> I'm a bit in a hurry now, but I'll work on this further. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:31, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> : {{ping|Joshua Jonathan}} Thank you, the Negrito section and [[Andamanese people]] page also needs some clean up. It's all repetition. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 22:30, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> ::Done. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:57, 1 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==LGM==<br /> LGM section: Silva et al (2018) study claims mtdna N1a1b1 arrived from Near East during 21 ybp and further Near Eastern mtdna clades W4, HV + 16311!, HV12b,I1, U7a and J1b1b1 spread to South Asia in the Late Glacial period, 16–13 ka (4.5% of west eurasian mtdna in their dataset). But, they're data-set includes Baloch &amp; Jewish Indians who are medieval migrants, and they point out they carry near eastern ancestry but (in contrast) the study says South Asians do not carry Near Eastern ancestry ''&quot;However, this component is virtually absent in other South Asians (including Muslims) except for Jewish groups&quot;''. They don't specify which South Asian group carries this N1a1b1 mtdna for some reason, which would be very helpful. I'll remove this for time being considering Shinde et al gives 13kya as arrival time frame for west eurasian ancestry based on aDNA. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 06:41, 13 February 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&diff=940558869 Peopling of India 2020-02-13T06:49:25Z <p>Ilber8000: /</p> <hr /> <div>{{short description|Immigration patterns of different races of people of India}}<br /> {{See also|Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=February 2020}}<br /> {{Use Indian English|date=March 2017}}<br /> [[File:Spreading homo sapiens la.svg|thumb|upright=1.5|Successive dispersals of {{color box|#e8e22c}} ''[[Homo erectus]]'' (yellow), {{color box|#e4ca30}} ''[[Homo neanderthalensis]]'' (ochre) and {{color box|#e9252c}} ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' (red).]]<br /> The '''peopling of India''' refers to the migration of ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' into the Indian subcontinent. [[Homo sapiens#Anatomical modernity|Anatomically modern humans]] settled India in multiple waves of [[Early human migrations|early migrations]], over tens of millennia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url= https://www.openthemagazine.com/article/books/migrant-nation |title=Migrant Nation }}&lt;/ref&gt; The first migrants came with the Southern Coastal dispersal, ca. 65,000 years ago, whereafter complex migrations within south and southeast Asia took place. West Eurasian hunter-gatherers migrated to South Asia after the latest Ice Age, but before the onset of farming. Together with a minor number of ancient South Asian hunter-gatherers they formed the population of the Indus Valley Civilisation. <br /> <br /> With the decline of the IVC, and the migration of [[Indo-European migrations|Indo-Europeans]], the IVC-people contributed to the formation of Ancestral North Indians (&quot;ANI&quot;), who were closely related to west Eurasians, and Ancestral South Asians (&quot;ASI&quot;), who were mainly descended from the ancient South Asian hunter-gatherers (&quot;Ancient Ancestral South Asians&quot; or &quot;AASI&quot;), who were distantly related to the [[Andamanese]]. These two ancestral populations mixed, while the migrations of the Munda people and the Tibeto-Burmese speaking people from [[East Asia]] also added new elements.<br /> <br /> ==First modern human settlers==<br /> {{main|Recent African origin of modern humans}}<br /> {{See also|Paleolithic|Paleolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> ===Pre- or post-Toba===<br /> The dating of the earliest successful migration modern humans out of Africa is a matter of dispute.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2012}} It may have pre- or post-dated the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba catastrophe]], a volcanic [[Supervolcano|super eruption]] that took place between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at the site of present-day [[Lake Toba]]. According to Michael Petraglia, stone tools discovered below the layers of ash deposits in India at [[Jwalapuram]], Andhra Pradesh point to a pre-Toba dispersal. The population who created these tools is not known with certainty as no human remains were found.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2012}} An indication for post-Toba is [[Haplogroup L3 (mtDNA)|haplogroup L3]], that originated before the dispersal of humans out of Africa, and can be dated to 60,000–70,000 years ago, &quot;suggesting that humanity left Africa a few thousand years after Toba.&quot;{{sfn|Appenzeller|2012}}<br /> <br /> ====Impact====<br /> It has been hypothesized that the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba supereruption]] about 74,000 years ago destroyed much of India's central forests, covering it with a layer of volcanic ash, and may have brought humans worldwide to a state of near-extinction by suddenly plunging the planet into an ice-age that could have lasted for up to 1,800 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Supervolcano Eruption – In Sumatra – Deforested India 73,000 Years Ago | date=24 November 2009 | access-date=1 March 2011 | journal=ScienceDaily | url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091123142739.htm | quote=''... new study provides &quot;incontrovertible evidence&quot; that the volcanic super-eruption of Toba on the island of Sumatra about 73,000 years ago deforested much of central India, some 3,000 miles from the epicenter ... initiating an &quot;Instant Ice Age&quot; that – according to evidence in ice cores taken in Greenland – lasted about 1,800 years ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; If true, this may &quot;explain the apparent [[population bottleneck|bottleneck in human populations]] that geneticists believe occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago&quot; and the relative &quot;lack of genetic diversity among humans alive today.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Since the Toba event is believed to have had such a harsh impact and &quot;specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash,&quot; it was &quot;difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref59movel&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Out of Eden: the peopling of the world | first = Stephen | last = Oppenheimer Chaudhuri | publisher=Robinson | date = 2004 | isbn=978-1-84119-894-1 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=H_zwAAAAMAAJ | quote=''... The Toba event specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash. It is difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters. So, we could predict a broad human extinction ...'' }}&lt;/ref&gt; Therefore, it was believed that all humans previously present in India went extinct during, or shortly after, this event and these first Indians left &quot;no trace of their DNA in present-day humans&quot; – a theory seemingly backed by genetic studies.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref67curug&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=The evolution and history of human populations in South Asia: Inter-disciplinary Studies in Archaeology, Biological Anthropology, Linguistics and Genetics | first1 = Michael D. | last1 = Petraglia | first2 = Bridget | last2 = Allchin | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer, 2007 | isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC | quote=... had H. sapiens colonized India before the eruption? The majority of genetic evidence seems to suggest that the initial colonization of India took place soon after the Toba event. It should be noted, however, that on the basis of this evidence, the hypothesis that modern human populations inhabited India before ~74ka and underwent extinction as a result of Toba cannot be ruled out. If population extinction occurred, there would be no trace of their DNA in present-day humans ...|date=22 May 2007 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Pre-Toba tools====<br /> Research published in 2009 by a team led by Michael Petraglia of the [[University of Oxford]] suggested that some humans may have survived the hypothesized catastrophe on the Indian mainland. Undertaking &quot;[[Pompeii]]-like excavations&quot; under the layer of Toba ash, the team discovered tools and human habitations from both before and after the eruption.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;&gt;{{cite web | title=New evidence shows populations survived the Toba super-eruption 74,000 years ago | publisher=University of Oxford | date=22 February 2009 | access-date=1 March 2011 | url=http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | quote=... Newly discovered archaeological sites in southern and northern India have revealed how people lived before and after the colossal Toba volcanic eruption 74,000 years ago. The international, multidisciplinary research team, led by Oxford University in collaboration with Indian institutions, has uncovered what it calls ‘Pompeii-like excavations’ beneath the Toba ash ... suggests that human populations were present in India prior to 74,000 years ago, or about 15,000 years earlier than expected based on some genetic clocks,’ said project director Dr Michael Petraglia ... | url-status=dead | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101230210026/http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | archive-date=30 December 2010 | df=dmy-all }}&lt;/ref&gt; However, human fossils have not been found from this period, and nothing is known of the ethnicity of these early humans in India.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;/&gt; Recent research also by Macauly et al. (2005){{sfn|Macauly|2005}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot; /&gt; and Posth et al. (2016),{{sfn|Posth|Renaud|Mittnik|Drucker|2016}} also argue for a post-Toba dispersal.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot;&gt;[http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/science-magazine.php Bradshaw Foundation, ''Human Migration'']&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Early [[South Asian Stone Age|Stone Age]] hominin fossils have been found in the Narmada valley of Madhya Pradesh. Some have been dated to 200- 700,000 BP. It is uncertain what species they represent.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kennedy KA, Sonakia A, Chiment J, Verma KK | title = Is the Narmada hominid an Indian Homo erectus? | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 86 | issue = 4 | pages = 475–96 | date = December 1991 | pmid = 1776655 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.1330860404 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Post-Toba Southern Coastal dispersal====<br /> {{see|Southern Dispersal|Proto-Australoid}}<br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | align = right<br /> | direction = vertical<br /> | width = 200<br /> | header = Migrations routes according to the [[Coastal Migration]] Model<br /> | image1 = Peopling of eurasia.jpg<br /> | alt1 = <br /> | caption1 = Note the route of the mtDNA [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|Haplogroup M]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]], to [[Andaman Islands]] and [[Southeast Asia]].<br /> | image2 = C=M130-Migration.jpg<br /> | alt2 = <br /> | caption2 = Note the route of the Y-DNA [[Haplogroup C-M130|Haplogroup C]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]] to [[Australia]].<br /> | image3 = Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG<br /> | alt3 = <br /> | caption3 = Y-DNA [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and it's descendants. <br /> }}<br /> By some 70-50,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;Hirst&quot;&gt;{{cite web | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm | first = K. Kris | last = Hirst | name-list-format = vanc | title = Southern Dispersal Route – Early Modern Humans Leave Africa | work = About.com }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Posth|Renaud|Mittnik|Drucker|2016}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Karmin M, Saag L, Vicente M, Wilson Sayres MA, Järve M, Talas UG, Rootsi S, Ilumäe AM, Mägi R, Mitt M, Pagani L, Puurand T, Faltyskova Z, Clemente F, Cardona A, Metspalu E, Sahakyan H, Yunusbayev B, Hudjashov G, DeGiorgio M, Loogväli EL, Eichstaedt C, Eelmets M, Chaubey G, Tambets K, Litvinov S, Mormina M, Xue Y, Ayub Q, Zoraqi G, Korneliussen TS, Akhatova F, Lachance J, Tishkoff S, Momynaliev K, Ricaut FX, Kusuma P, Razafindrazaka H, Pierron D, Cox MP, Sultana GN, Willerslev R, Muller C, Westaway M, Lambert D, Skaro V, Kovačevic L, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Khusainova R, Trofimova N, Akhmetova V, Khidiyatova I, Lichman DV, Isakova J, Pocheshkhova E, Sabitov Z, Barashkov NA, Nymadawa P, Mihailov E, Seng JW, Evseeva I, Migliano AB, Abdullah S, Andriadze G, Primorac D, Atramentova L, Utevska O, Yepiskoposyan L, Marjanovic D, Kushniarevich A, Behar DM, Gilissen C, Vissers L, Veltman JA, Balanovska E, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Metspalu A, Fedorova S, Eriksson A, Manica A, Mendez FL, Karafet TM, Veeramah KR, Bradman N, Hammer MF, Osipova LP, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Johnsen K, Remm M, Thomas MG, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Willerslev E, Nielsen R, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = A recent bottleneck of Y chromosome diversity coincides with a global change in culture | journal = Genome Research | volume = 25 | issue = 4 | pages = 459–66 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25770088 | pmc = 4381518 | doi = 10.1101/gr.186684.114 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;ReferenceC&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Haber M, Jones AL, Connell BA, Arciero E, Yang H, Thomas MG, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications for the Expansion of Modern Humans Out of Africa | journal = Genetics | volume = 212 | issue = 4 | pages = 1421–1428 | date = August 2019 | pmid = 31196864 | pmc = 6707464 | doi = 10.1534/genetics.119.302368 }}&lt;/ref&gt; only a small group, possibly as few as 150 to 1,000 people, crossed the Red Sea.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |year=2008 |first=Gary |last=Stix | name-list-format = vanc |url=http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-migration-history-of-humans|title=The Migration History of Humans: DNA Study Traces Human Origins Across the Continents|access-date=14 June 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt; The group that crossed the Red Sea travelled along the coastal route around the coast of [[Arabia]] and [[Persia]] until reaching India, which appears to be the first major settling point.&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid15339343&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | issue = | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 | ref = harv }}&lt;/ref&gt; Geneticist [[Spencer Wells]] says that the early travellers followed the southern coastline of Asia, crossed about {{convert|250|km|0|abbr=out}} of sea, and colonized Australia by around 50,000 years ago. The [[Australian Aborigines|Aborigines of Australia]], Wells says, are the descendants of the first wave of migrations.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7358868.stm |title= Human line 'nearly split in two' |publisher= BBC News |date= 24 April 2008 | access-date=31 December 2009 | first=Paul | last=Rincon | name-list-format = vanc }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The oldest definitively identified Homo sapiens fossils yet found in South Asia are [[Balangoda Man|Balangoda man]]. Named for the location in Sri Lanka where they were discovered, they are at least 28,000 years old.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Deraniyagala|first=Siran U.| name-list-format = vanc |date=1 June 1989|title=Fossil Remains of 28,000-Year-Old Hominids from Sri Lanka|journal=Current Anthropology|volume=30|issue=3|pages=394–399|doi=10.1086/203757|issn=0011-3204}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===AASI===<br /> Narashimhan et al. (2018) <br /> introduced the term AASI for these oldest human habitants, &quot;Ancient Ancestral South Indian,&quot;{{refn|group=note|ASI was synonyms to AASI before 2018.{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}}} which were related to the East Asian, Onge and Aboriginal Australian ancestors. It is deeply related to Andaman islanders.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009|p=40}}&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019|p=9}} According to Narashimhan et al. (2019), &quot;essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.&quot;{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}<br /> <br /> ====Relation to Andaman Islanders==== <br /> {{see also|Andaman Islands|Andamanese people|Sentinelese people|Sentinelese language}}<br /> <br /> Several genetic studies have found evidence of a distant common ancestry between native Andaman Islanders and the AASI/ASI ancestral component found in South Asians.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009|p=40}} Modern South Asians have not been found to carry the paternal lineages common in the Andamanese, which has been suggested to indicate that certain paternal lineages may have become extinct in India, or that they may be very rare and have not yet been sampled.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Endicott P, Gilbert MT, Stringer C, Lalueza-Fox C, Willerslev E, Hansen AJ, Cooper A | title = The genetic origins of the Andaman Islanders | language = English | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 1 | pages = 178–84 | date = January 2003 | pmid = 12478481 | pmc = 378623 | doi = 10.1086/345487 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Chaubey and Endicott (2013) further noted that &quot;Overall, the Andamanese are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians (as well as being closer to Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians).&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Endicott P | title = The Andaman Islanders in a regional genetic context: reexamining the evidence for an early peopling of the archipelago from South Asia | journal = Human Biology | volume = 85 | issue = 1–3 | pages = 153–72 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24297224 | doi = 10.3378/027.085.0307 | url = https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|Chaubey and Endicott (2013):&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;&lt;br&gt;* &quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled less than ~26 ka and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and [[Great Andamanese]] commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)&lt;br&gt;* &quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)}}<br /> <br /> Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI &quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time.&quot;{{sfn|Shinde|2019}} According to Yelmen et al. (2019) the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and not closely related, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for ASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not detected in the northern Indian [[Gujarati people|Gujarati]], and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=1 August 2019|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Narashimhan et al. (2019), the &quot;AASI&quot; component in South Asians shares a common root with the Andamanese (as exemplified by the Onge as proxy) and is distantly related to the Onge (Andamanese), East Asians, and Aboriginal Australians (with those groups and the AASI sharing a deep ancestral split around the same time).{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019|p=9}}<br /> <br /> ====Relation to &quot;Negritos&quot;====<br /> {{see also|Negrito|Andaman Islands|Andamanese people}}<br /> <br /> The present-day Andamese are considered to be part of the &quot;Negritos,&quot; several diverse ethnic groups who inhabit isolated parts of [[Austronesia]].&lt;ref&gt;Snow, Philip. ''The Star Raft: China's Encounter With Africa.'' Cornell Univ. Press, 1989 ({{ISBN|0801495830}})&lt;/ref&gt; Based on their physical similarities, Negritos were once considered a single population of related people, but the appropriateness of using the label 'Negrito' to bundle together peoples of different [[ethnicity]] based on similarities in stature and complexion has been challenged.&lt;ref name=Manickham-2009&gt;{{cite book|last=Manickham|first=Sandra Khor|editor=Hägerdal, Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}&lt;/ref&gt; Recent research suggests that the Negritos include several separate groups, as well as demonstrating that they are not closely related to the Pygmies of Africa.&lt;ref&gt;S. Noerwidi, &quot;Using Dental Metrical Analysis to Determine the Terminal Pleistocene and Holocene Population History of Java&quot;, in: Philip J. Piper, Hirofumi Matsumura, David Bulbeck (eds.), New Perspectives in Southeast Asian and Pacific Prehistory (2017), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=CDDFDgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA92 p. 92].&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Vishwanathan et al. (2004), the typical &quot;negrito&quot; features could also have been developed by [[convergent evolution]].{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to [[Gyaneshwer Chaubey]] and Endicott (2013), &quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as 'negritos.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt; Basu et al. 2016 concluded that the Andamanese have a distinct ancestry and are not closely related to other South Asians, but are closer to Southeast Asian Negritos, indicating that South Asian peoples do not descend directly from &quot;Negritos&quot; as such.{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> ===Sri Lankan Vedda===<br /> {{see also|Vedda people}}<br /> <br /> Groups ancestral to the modern [[Vedda people|Veddas]] were probably the earliest inhabitants of Sri Lanka. Their arrival is dated tentatively to about 40,000–35,000 years ago. They are genetically distinguishable from the other peoples of Sri Lanka, and they show a high degree of intra-group diversity. This is consistent with a long history of existing as small subgroups undergoing significant [[genetic drift]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Deraniyagala SU | title = Pre-and protohistoric settlement in Sri Lanka. | journal = XIII UISPP Congress Proceedings | date = September 1996 | volume = 5 | pages = 277–285 | url = http://www.lankalibrary.com/geo/dera1.html }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Ranaweera_2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Ranaweera L, Kaewsutthi S, Win Tun A, Boonyarit H, Poolsuwan S, Lertrit P | title = Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 59 | issue = 1 | pages = 28–36 | date = January 2014 | pmid = 24196378 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.112 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Latest Glacial Maximum==<br /> ===Holocene===<br /> {{Main|Holocene|Neolithic|Neolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> After the last [[Ice age|glacial maximum]], human populations started to grow and migrate. With the invention of agriculture, the so-called Neolithic revolution, larger numbers of people could be sustained. The use of metals (copper, bronze, iron) further changed human ways of life, giving an initial advance to early users, and aiding further migrations, and admixture.<br /> <br /> According to Silva et al. (2017), multiple waves of migration from western Eurasia took place after the last Ice Age, both before and after the advent of farming in South Asia.{{sfn|da Silva|2017}} According to Narasimhan et al. (2019), people related to Iranian hunter-gatherers were present in South Asia before the advent of farming. They mixed with Ancestral Ancient South Asians (AASI) to form the Indus Valley population. With the decline of the IVC after 1900 BCE and the arrival of the Indo-Aryans, IVC-people mixed with incoming Indo-Aryans, forming the Ancestral North Indians (ANI). Other IVC-people mixed with AASI forming the Ancestral South Indians (ASI).{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}}<br /> <br /> These two ancestral groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to [[endogamy]] took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; during the Hindu [[Gupta empire|Gupta rule]].{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} Reich et al. stated that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers”.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}} <br /> <br /> Basu et al. (2016) note that mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}}} namely Ancestral Austro-Asiatic (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}<br /> <br /> ==West Eurasian ancestry==<br /> {{See also|Dravidian peoples|Indus Valley Civilisation|Mehrgarh}}<br /> <br /> ===Pre-farming Iranian hunter-gatherers===<br /> Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019) conclude that west Eurasian ancestry was already present before the advent of farming in South Asia.{{sfn|da Silva|2017}}{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}<br /> <br /> Metspalu et al. (2011) detected a genetic component in India, k5, which &quot;distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus&quot;.{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|pp=734–735}} According to Metspalu et al. (2011), k5 &quot;might represent the genetic vestige of the ANI&quot;, though they also note that the geographic cline of this component within India &quot;is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model&quot;, explaining that the ASI-ANI model implies an ANI contribution which decreases toward southern India.{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|p=739}} According to Metspalu et al. (2011), &quot;regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years.&quot;{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|p=740}} <br /> <br /> Speaking to Fountain Ink, Metspalu said, &quot;the West Eurasian component in Indians appears to come from a population that diverged genetically from people actually living in Eurasia, and this separation happened at least 12,500 years ago.&quot;&lt;ref group=web name=Perur /&gt;{{refn|group=note|Note that according to Jones et al. (2015), Caucasian Hunter Gatherers and &quot;the ancestors of Neolithic farmers&quot; split circa 25,000 years ago: &quot;Caucasus hunter-gatherers (CHG) belong to a distinct ancient clade that split from western hunter-gatherers ~45 kya, shortly after the expansion of anatomically modern humans into Europe and from the ancestors of Neolithic farmers ~25 kya, around the Last Glacial Maximum. CHG genomes significantly contributed to the Yamnaya steppe herders who migrated into Europe B3,000 BC, supporting a formative Caucasus influence on this important Early Bronze age culture.&quot;{{sfn|Jones|2016}}}} Moorjani et al. (2013) refer to Metspalu (2011)&lt;!--**START OF NOTE**--&gt;{{refn|group=note|The reference is to a &quot;recent study&quot;, and gives Kivisild et al. (1999). Kivisild (1999) does not mention the number 12,500, nor does it explicitly make such a statement. What it does state is that western-Eurasian and Indian mtDNA lineages overlap in haplogroup U;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1331}} that the split between the western-Eurasian and Indian U2 lineages appeared circa 53,000 ± 4,000 years before present;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1331}} and that &quot;despite their equally deep time depth, the Indian U2 has not penetrated western Eurasia, and the European U5 has almost not reached India.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1332}} They further note that wester-Eurasian mtDNA lineages did spread in India at the time of the spread of agricultural crops from the fertile Crescent.{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|pp=1332–1333}} Metspalu et al. (2011) ''do'' refer to 12,500 years ago.{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|p=740}} Apparently, the reference to Kivisld (1999) is incorrect, and was not noticed by the authors.}}&lt;!--**END OF NOTE**--&gt; as &quot;fail[ing] to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years&quot;.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013|p=430}} CCMB researcher Thangaraj believes that &quot;it was much longer ago&quot;, and that &quot;the ANI came to India in a second wave of migration{{refn|group=note|After the initial settlement of India by the ASI.}} that happened perhaps 40,000 years ago.&quot;&lt;ref group=web name=Perur&gt;[https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Press_files/Fountain%20Ink%20-%20December%202013%20-%20Cover.pdf Srinath Perur (December 2013), ''The origins of Indians. What our genes are telling us.'', Fountain Ink] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160304073824/http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Press_files/Fountain%20Ink%20-%20December%202013%20-%20Cover.pdf |date=4 March 2016 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Possible migration of Iranian neolithic farmers===<br /> According to Gallego Romero et al. (2011), their research on lactose tolerance in India suggests that &quot;the west Eurasian genetic contribution identified by Reich et al. (2009) principally reflects gene flow from Iran and the Middle East.&quot;{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|p=9}} Gallego Romero notes that Indians who are lactose-tolerant show a genetic pattern regarding this tolerance which is &quot;characteristic of the common European mutation.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | url = http://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2011/09/14/lactose-tolerance-in-the-indian-dairyland/ | first = Rob | last = Mitchum | name-list-format = vanc | title = Lactose Tolerance in the Indian Dairyland | work = ScienceLife | publisher = UChicago Medicine | date = 14 September 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Romero, this suggests that &quot;the most common lactose tolerance mutation made a two-way migration out of the Middle East less than 10,000 years ago. While the mutation spread across Europe, another explorer must have brought the mutation eastward to India – likely traveling along the coast of the Persian Gulf where other pockets of the same mutation have been found.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Mehrgarh (7000&amp;nbsp;BCE to c. 2500&amp;nbsp;BCE), to the west of the [[Indus River]] valley,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4882968.stm |title=Stone age man used dentist drill | work = BBC News | date = 6 April 2006 }}&lt;/ref&gt; is a precursor of the Indus Valley Civilisation, whose inhabitants migrated into the Indus Valley and became the Indus Valley Civilisation.{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}} It is one of the earliest sites with evidence of farming and herding in [[South Asia]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | work = UNESCO World Heritage | date = 2004 | url = https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1876/ | title = Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | last = Hirst | first = K. Kris | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2005 | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/g/mehrgarh.htm | title = Mehrgarh | work = Guide to Archaeology }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Lukacs and Hemphill, while there is a strong continuity between the neolithic and [[chalcolithic]] (Copper Age) cultures of Mehrgarh, dental evidence shows that the chalcolithic population did not descend from the neolithic population of Mehrgarh,{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} which &quot;suggests moderate levels of gene flow.&quot;{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} They further noted that &quot;the direct lineal descendents of the Neolithic inhabitants of Mehrgarh are to be found to the south and the east of Mehrgarh, in northwestern India and the western edge of the Deccan plateau,&quot; with neolithic Mehrgarh showing greater affinity with chalcolithic [[Inamgaon]], south of Mehrgarh, than with chalcolithic Mehrgarh.{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}}<br /> <br /> ====Elamite-Dravidian hypothesis====<br /> {{Main|Elamo-Dravidian languages}}<br /> <br /> While the IVC has been linked to the early [[Dravidian peoples]], some scholars have suggested that their neolithic farmer predecessors may have migrated from the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] to northern South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/jgen/087/02/0175-0179&lt;/ref&gt; According to David McAlpin, the Dravidian languages were brought to India by immigration into India from [[Elam]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin D, Emeneau MB, Jacobsen Jr WH, Kuiper FB, Paper HH, Reiner E, Stopa R, Vallat F, Wescott RW | chapter = Elamite and Dravidian: Further Evidence of Relationship [and Comments and Reply]. | title = Current Anthropology | date = March 1975 | volume = 16 | issue = 1 | pages = 105–15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin DW | chapter = Linguistic prehistory: the Dravidian situation. | title = Aryan and Non-Aryan | date = 1979 | pages = 175–89 | publisher = Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of Michigan | location = Ann Arbor}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McAlpin DW | title = Proto-Elamo-Dravidian: The evidence and its implications. | journal = Transactions of the American Philosophical Society | date = January 1981 | volume = 71 | issue = 3 | pages = 1–55 | doi = 10.2307/1006352 | jstor = 1006352 | url = https://semanticscholar.org/paper/897c74bc98e62cec162ddf7f75af4650c27147e1 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Genetic Disorders of the Indian Subcontinent | first = Dhavendra | last = Kumar | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer | year=2004 | access-date=25 November 2008 | isbn=978-1-4020-1215-0 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bpl0LXKj13QC | quote=... The analysis of two Y chromosome variants, Hgr9 and Hgr3 provides interesting data (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). Microsatellite variation of Hgr9 among Iranians, Pakistanis and Indians indicate an expansion of populations to around 9000 YBP in Iran and then to 6,000 YBP in India. This migration originated in what was historically termed Elam in south-west Iran to the Indus valley, and may have been associated with the spread of Dravidian languages from south-west Iran (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Renfrew and Cavalli-Sforza, proto-Dravidian was brought to India by farmers from the Iranian part of the Fertile Crescent,{{sfn|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|p=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;mukherjee2001&quot; &gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/bf02717908 | quote = ... More recently, about 15,000-10,000 years before present (ybp), when agriculture developed in the Fertile Crescent region that extends from Israel through northern Syria to western Iran, there was another eastward wave of human migration (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994; Renfrew 1987), a part of which also appears to have entered India. This wave has been postulated to have brought the Dravidian languages into India (Renfrew 1987). Subsequently, the Indo-European (Aryan) language family was introduced into India about 4,000 ybp ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}{{refn|group=note|Derenko: &quot;The spread of these new technologies has been associated with the dispersal of Dravidian and Indo-European languages in southern Asia. It is hypothesized that the proto-Elamo-Dravidian language, most likely originated in the Elam province in southwestern Iran, spread eastwards with the movement of farmers to the Indus Valley and the Indian sub-continent.&quot;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Derenko refers to:&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1987), ''Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins''&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1996), ''Language families and the spread of farming.'' In: Harris DR, editor, ''The origins and spread of Agriculture and Pastoralism in Eurasia'', pp. 70–92&lt;br&gt;* Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, Piazza (1994), ''The History and Geography of Human Genes''.}} but more recently Heggerty and Renfrew (2014) noted that &quot;McAlpin's analysis of the language data, and thus his claims, remain far from orthodoxy&quot;, adding that Fuller finds no relation of Dravidian language with other languages, and thus assumes it to be native to India.&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew&gt;{{cite book |last1=Heggarty |first1=Paul |last2=Renfrew |first2=Collin | name-list-format = vanc |year=2014|chapter=South and Island Southeast Asia; Languages|editor-last1=Renfrew|editor-first1=Colin|editor-last2=Bahn|editor-first2=Paul|title=The Cambridge World Prehistory|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vWbwAwAAQBAJ|publisher=Cambridge University Press}}&lt;/ref&gt; Renfrew and Bahn conclude that several scenarios are compatible with the data, and that &quot;the linguistic jury is still very much out.&quot;&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew/&gt;{{refn|group=note|The Elamite-hypothesis has drawn attention in the scholarly literature, but has never been fully accpeted:&lt;br&gt;* According to Mikhail Andronov, Dravidian languages were brought to India at the beginning of the third millennium BCE.{{sfn|Andronov|2003|p=299}}&lt;br&gt;* Kivisild et al. (1999) note that &quot;a small fraction of the West Eurasian mtDNA lineages found in Indian populations can be ascribed to a relatively recent admixture.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1331}} at ca. 9,300 ± 3,000 years before present,{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1333}} which coincides with &quot;the arrival to India of cereals domesticated in the [[Fertile Crescent]]&quot; and &quot;lends credence to the suggested [[Elamo-Dravidian languages|linguistic connection]] between the Elamite and Dravidic populations.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1333}}&lt;br&gt;* According to Palanichamy et al. (2015), &quot;The presence of mtDNA haplogroups (HV14 and U1a) and Y-chromosome haplogroup ([[Haplogroup L-M20|L1]]) in Dravidian populations indicates the spread of the Dravidian language into India from west Asia.&quot;{{sfnp|Palanichamy|2015|p=645}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; According to Krishnamurti, Proto-Dravidian may have been spoken in the Indus civilization, suggesting a &quot;tentative date of Proto-Dravidian around the early part of the third millennium.&quot;{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501}} Krishnamurti further states that South Dravidian I (including pre-Tamil) and South Dravidian II (including Pre-Telugu) split around the eleventh century BCE, with the other major branches splitting off at around the same time.{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501-502}}}}<br /> <br /> According to another study in 2016, evidence support that the neolithic farmers ancestry component forms the main ancestry of modern South Asians. These neolithic farmers migrated from the [[Fertile Crescent|fertile crescent]], most likely from a region near the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] in modern day Iran, to South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm|title=Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians|website=ScienceDaily|language=en|access-date=20 January 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Indus Valley Civilisation==<br /> Shinde et al. (2019) and Narasimhan et al. (2019), analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), conclude that the IVC-population was a mixture people related to Iranians and AASI:{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}} <br /> {{quote|&quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;{{sfn|Shinde|2019}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Shinde et al. (2019) about 50-98% of the IVC-genome came from people related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of the IVC-genome came from native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common ancestry with the Andamanese.{{sfn|Shinde|2019}} According to Narasimhan et al. (2019) found 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry).{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}} The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;Steppe ancestry&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.{{sfn|Shinde|2019}}{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}<br /> <br /> ==Indo-Aryans==<br /> [[File:IE expansion.png|thumb|right|Scheme of the theoretical Indo-European migrations, of which the Indo-Aryan migrations form a part, from c. 4000 to 1000 BCE according to the [[Kurgan hypothesis]].&lt;br /&gt;* The magenta area corresponds to the assumed ''[[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|Urheimat]]'' ([[Samara culture]], [[Sredny Stog culture]]) and the subsequent [[Yamna culture]].&lt;br /&gt;* The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to c. 2500 BCE.&lt;br /&gt;* The orange area to 1000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=30}}]]<br /> {{Main|Indo-Aryan peoples|Indo-Aryan migration theory#genetics}}<br /> <br /> In the second millennium BCE people from the [[Sintashta culture]]{{sfn|Anthony|2007|pp=408–411}}{{sfn|Kuz'mina|2007|p=222}} migrated through [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]] and into the northern [[Indian subcontinent]] (modern day [[India]], [[Pakistan]], [[Bangladesh]] and [[Nepal]]). The Indo-Aryan migrations started in approximately 1,800 BCE, after the invention of the [[Chariot|war chariot]], and also brought Indo-Aryan languages into the [[Levant]] and possibly [[Inner Asia]]. {{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=33}}{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}}{{refn|group=note|Pathak et al. (2018) concluded that the [[Indo-Aryan languages|Indo-Aryan]] speakers of [[Gangetic Plains]] and some [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speakers in central India have significant [[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya Early-Middle Bronze Age]] (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry. The &quot;North-Western Indian and Pakistani&quot; populations (PNWI) showed additionally significant Steppe_MLBA ancestry along with Yamnaya (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry. The study also suggested that the [[Ror|Rors]] could be used as a proxy for the ANI.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Villems|first1=Richard|last2=Pathak|first2=Ajay|date=December 2018|title=The Genetic Ancestry of Modern Indus Valley Populations from Northwest India|url=https://www.cell.com/ajhg/pdfExtended/S0002-9297(18)30398-7|journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics|volume=|pages=|via=|name-list-format=vanc}}&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> <br /> The [[Proto-Indo-Iranians]], from which the [[Indo-Aryans]] developed, are identified with the [[Sintashta culture]] (2100–1800 BCE),{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=390 (fig. 15.9), 405–411}} and the [[Andronovo culture]],{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=49}} which flourished ca. 1800–1400 BCE in the steppes around the [[Aral sea]], present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. The proto-Indo-Iranians were influenced by the [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]], south of the Andronovo culture, from which they borrowed their distinctive religious beliefs and practices. The Indo-Aryans split off around 1800–1600 BCE from the Iranians,{{sfn|Anthony|2007|p=408}} whereafter the Indo-Aryans migrated into the Levant and north-western India.<br /> <br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes that the demographic impact of steppe related populations on South Asia was substantial and forms the major component in northern India.{{sfnp|Lazaridis et al.|2016|pp=123}} Lazaridis et al.'s 2016 study estimates 6.5–50.2&amp;nbsp;% steppe related admixture in all modern South Asians with a majority found in most Indo-Aryan speaking groups.{{refn|Lazaridis et al. (2016) Supplementary Information, Table S9.1: &quot;Kalash – 50.2&amp;nbsp;%, Tiwari Brahmins – 44.1&amp;nbsp;%, Gujarati (four samples) – 46.1&amp;nbsp;% to 27.5&amp;nbsp;%, Pathan – 44.6&amp;nbsp;%, Burusho – 42.5&amp;nbsp;%, Sindhi – 37.7&amp;nbsp;%, Punjabi – 32.6&amp;nbsp;%, Balochi – 32.4&amp;nbsp;%, Brahui – 30.2&amp;nbsp;%, Lodhi – 29.3&amp;nbsp;%, Bengali – 24.6&amp;nbsp;%, Vishwabhramin – 20.4&amp;nbsp;%, Makrani – 19.2&amp;nbsp;%, Mala – 18.4&amp;nbsp;%, Kusunda – 8.9&amp;nbsp;%, Kharia – 6.5&amp;nbsp;%.&quot;|group=note}}<br /> <br /> ==Post-IVC: ANI and ASI ancestral components in the Indian population==<br /> A series of studies since 2009-2019 have shown that the [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} formed in the 2nd milllennium BCE,{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI), which is broadly related to West Eurasians, and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}} ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers.<br /> <br /> ASI formed as mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group who moved south and mixed further with AASI-related ancestry. &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group did not carry steppe admixture and were instead mixture of Neolithic Iran-related ancestry and hypothesized AASI-related ancestry. According Narasimhan et al. 2018, the genetic makeup of the ASI population consisted of about 73% AASI and about 27% from Iranian-related peoples.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}<br /> <br /> ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from Bronze age steppe.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} Lazaridis et al. (2016){{refn|group=note|According to Lazaridis et al. (2016) ANI-related ancestry in South Asians can be modeled as a mix of ancestry related to both early farmers of Iran and to people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe ([[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya component]]).{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016}}}} notes that the demographic impact of steppe related populations on South Asia was substantial, and forms the major component in northern India. According to the results, the [[Mala (caste)|Mala]], a south Indian [[Dalit]] population with minimal Ancestral North Indian (ANI) along the 'Indian Cline' have nevertheless ~&amp;nbsp;18&amp;nbsp;% steppe-related ancestry, showing the strong influence of ANI ancestry in all populations of India. The [[Kalash people|Kalash]] of Pakistan are inferred to have ~&amp;nbsp;50&amp;nbsp;% steppe-related ancestry, with the rest being of Iranian farmers ancestry.{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016}}{{refn|group=note|Lazaridis et al. (2016) Supplementary Information, Table S9.1: &quot;Kalash – 50.2&amp;nbsp;%, Tiwari Brahmins – 44.1&amp;nbsp;%, Gujarati (four samples) – 46.1&amp;nbsp;% to 27.5&amp;nbsp;%, Pathan – 44.6&amp;nbsp;%, Burusho – 42.5&amp;nbsp;%, Sindhi – 37.7&amp;nbsp;%, Punjabi – 32.6&amp;nbsp;%, Balochi – 32.4&amp;nbsp;%, Brahui – 30.2&amp;nbsp;%, Lodhi – 29.3&amp;nbsp;%, Bengali – 24.6&amp;nbsp;%, Vishwabhramin – 20.4&amp;nbsp;%, Makrani – 19.2&amp;nbsp;%, Mala – 18.4&amp;nbsp;%, Kusunda – 8.9&amp;nbsp;%, Kharia – 6.5&amp;nbsp;%.&quot;}} Reich et al. stated that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-Aryan speakers”.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}<br /> <br /> ==Austroasiatic==<br /> {{See also|Austroasiatic languages|Munda peoples|Khasi people}}<br /> <br /> According to Ness, there are three broad theories on the origins of the Austroasiatic speakers, namely northeastern India, central or southern China, or southeast Asia.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}} Multiple researches indicate that the Austroasiatic populations in India are derived from (mostly male dominated) migrations from southeast Asia during the Holocene.{{sfn|van Driem|2007}}{{sfn|Chaubey|2011}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot; /&gt;{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;!--** START OF NOTE **--&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;ASI-AAA&quot;|Nevertheless, according to Basu et al. (2016), the AAA were early settlers in India, related to the ASI: &quot;The absence of significant resemblance with any of the neighboring populations is indicative of the ASI and the AAA being early settlers in India, possibly arriving on the “southern exit” wave out of Africa. Differentiation between the ASI and the AAA possibly took place after their arrival in India (ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population in SI Appendix, Fig. S2).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}}}&lt;!--** END OF NOTE **--&gt; According to Van Driem (2007), <br /> {{quote|...the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.{{sfn|van Driem|2007|p=7}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey et al. (2011), &quot;AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;{{sfn|Chaubey|2011}}{{refn|group=note|See also:&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | work = Dienekes Anthropology Blog | url = http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html | title = Origin of Indian Austroasiatic speakers | date = 27 October 2010 }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | year = 2010 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/#.UQfBCVQR-Sp | title = Sons of the conquerors: the story of India? }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2013 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ | title = Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India}} }} According to Zhang et al. (2015), Austroasiatic (male) migrations from southeast Asia into India took place after the lates Glacial maximum, circa 10,000 years ago.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Arunkumar et al. (2015), Y-chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, which is typical for Austrosiatic speaking peoples, clearly decreases from Laos to east India, with &quot;a serial decrease in expansion time from east to west,&quot; namely &quot;5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India.&quot; This suggests &quot;a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first = Miguel | last = Vilar | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2015 | url = http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ | title = DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India | work = National Geographic }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Riccio et al. (2011), the Munda people are likely descended from Austroasiatic migrants from southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Riccio ME, Nunes JM, Rahal M, Kervaire B, Tiercy JM, Sanchez-Mazas A | title = The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study | journal = Human Biology | volume = 83 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–35 | date = June 2011 | pmid = 21740156 | doi = 10.3378/027.083.0306 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Alejandro | last1 = Gutman | first2 = Beatriz | last2 = Avanzati | name-list-format = vanc | work = The Language Gulper | url = http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Austroasiatic.html | title = Austroasiatic Languages }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Ness, the Khasi probably migrated into India in the first millennium BCE.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}}<br /> <br /> According to a genetic research (2015) including linguistic analyses, suggests an [[East Asia|East Asian]] origin for proto-Austroasiatic groups, which first migrated to Southeast Asia and later into India.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}<br /> <br /> ==Tibeto-Burmese==<br /> {{Main|Tibeto-Burman languages}}<br /> <br /> According to Cordaux et al. (2004), the Tibeto-Burmans possibly came from the Himalayan and north-eastern borders of the subcontinent within the past 4,200 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Weiss G, Saha N, Stoneking M | title = The northeast Indian passageway: a barrier or corridor for human migrations? | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 21 | issue = 8 | pages = 1525–33 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15128876 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msh151 | url = http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/8/1525 | access-date = 25 November 2008 | quote = ... Our coalescence analysis suggests that the expansion of Tibeto-Burman speakers to northeast India most likely took place within the past 4,200 years ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A wide variety of Tibeto-Burman languages are spoken on the southern slopes of the Himalayas. Sizable groups that have been identified are the [[West Himalayish languages]] of [[Himachal Pradesh]] and western Nepal, the [[Tamangic languages]] of western Nepal, including [[Tamang language|Tamang]] with one million speakers, and the [[Kiranti languages]] of eastern Nepal. The remaining groups are small, with several isolates.<br /> <br /> The [[Newar language]] (Nepal Bhasa) of central Nepal has a million speakers and a literature dating from the 12th century, and nearly a million people speak [[Magaric languages]], but the rest have small speech communities. Other isolates and small groups in Nepal are [[Dura language|Dura]], [[Raji–Raute languages|Raji–Raute]], [[Chepangic languages|Chepangic]] and [[Dhimal languages|Dhimalish]]. [[Lepcha language|Lepcha]] is spoken in an area from eastern Nepal to western Bhutan.{{sfnp|van Driem|2007|p=296}} Most of the languages of Bhutan are Bodish, but it also has three small isolates, [['Ole language|'Ole]] (&quot;Black Mountain Monpa&quot;), [[Lhokpu language|Lhokpu]] and [[Gongduk language|Gongduk]] and a larger community of speakers of [[Tshangla language|Tshangla]].{{sfnp|van Driem|2011}}<br /> <br /> ==Crossovers in languages and ethnicity==<br /> {{See also|Adivasi}}<br /> <br /> One complication in studying various population groups is that ethnic origins and linguistic affiliations in India match only inexactly: while the [[Kurukh people|Oraon]] [[adivasi]]s are classified as an &quot;Austric&quot; group, their language, called [[Kurukh language|Kurukh]], is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Bilingual Education | first1 = Jim | last1 = Cummins | first2 = David | last2 = Corson | name-list-format = vanc | year=1999 | access-date=25 November 2008 | isbn=978-0792348061 | publisher=Springer | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=x1aw6j7xHpwC | quote=... over one million speakers each: Bhili (Indo-Aryan) 4.5 million; Santali (Austric) 4.2 m; Gondi (Dravidian) 2.0 m; and Kurukh (Dravidian) 1.3 million ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Nicobarese are considered to be a Mongoloid group,&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Khongsdier R, Mukherjee N | title = Growth and nutritional status of Khasi boys in Northeast India relating to exogamous marriages and socioeconomic classes | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 122 | issue = 2 | pages = 162–70 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 12949836 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.10305 | url = http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | access-date = 25 November 2008 | url-status = dead | quote = ... The Khasis are one of the Indo-Mongoloid tribes in Northeast India. They speak the Monkhmer language, which belongs to the Austro-Asiatic group (Das, 1978) ... | archive-url = https://archive.today/20130105170233/http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | archive-date = 5 January 2013 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Tribal Development in India: The Contemporary Debate | first = Govinda Chandra | last = Rath | name-list-format = vanc | year=2006 | access-date=25 November 2008 | isbn=978-0761934233 | publisher=SAGE | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=BxDKhOnWwOsC | quote=... The Car Nicobarese are of Mongoloid stock ... The Nicobarese speak different languages of the Nicobarese group, which belongs to an Austro-Asiatic language sub-family ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; and the [[Munda people|Munda]] and [[Santals]] [[Adivasi]] are &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=The Sacred Complex of Munda Tribe | first = Malini | last = Srivastava | name-list-format = vanc | journal=Anthropologist | volume = 9 | issue = 4 | pages = 327–330 | year=2007 | access-date=25 November 2008 | url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T-Anth/Anth-09-0-000-000-2007-Web/Anth-09-4-000-07-Abst-PDF/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M-Tt.pdf | quote=... Racially, they are proto-australoid and speak Mundari dialect of Austro-Asiatic ...| doi = 10.1080/09720073.2007.11891020 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;chaudhuri1993&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=State Formation Among Tribals: A Quest for Santal Identity | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1993 | access-date=25 November 2008 | isbn=978-8121204224 | publisher=Gyan Publishing House | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=rhMXAAAAIAAJ | quote=... The Santal is a large Proto-Australoid tribe found in West Bengal, northern Orissa, Bihar, Assam as also in Bangladesh ... The solidarity having been broken, the Santals are gradually adopting languages of the areas inhabited, like Oriya in Orissa, Hindi in Bihar and Bengali in West Bengal and Bangladesh ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;culshaw1949&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Tribal Heritage: A Study of the Santals | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1949 | access-date=25 November 2008 | publisher=Lutterworth Press | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=PpFCAAAAIAAJ | quote=''... The Santals belong to his second &quot;main race&quot;, the Proto-Australoid, which he considers arrived in India soon after the Negritos ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; but all four speak Austro-Asiatic languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot; /&gt; The [[Bhil]]s and [[Gondi people|Gonds]] [[Adivasi]] are frequently classified as &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;shankarkumar2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |title=A Correlative Study of HLA, Sickle Cell Gene and G6PD Deficiency with Splenomegaly and Malaria Incidence Among Bhils and Pawra Tribes from Dhadgon, Dhule, Maharastra | vauthors = Shankarkumar U |journal=Studies of Tribes and Tribals |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=91–94 |date=2003 |access-date=25 November 2008 |url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T%20&amp;%20T/T%20&amp;%20T-01-0-000-000-2003-Web/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-174-2003-Abst-PDF/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar.pdf |quote=... The Bhils are one of the largest tribes concentrated mainly in Western Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Eastern Gujarat and Northern Maharastra. Racially they were classified as Gondids, Malids or Proto-Australoid, but their social history is still a mystery (Bhatia and Rao, 1986) ...| doi=10.1080/0972639X.2003.11886488 }}&lt;/ref&gt; yet [[Bhil languages]] are [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]] and the [[Gondi language]] is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{col div|colwidth=30em}}<br /> * [[Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia]]<br /> * [[Early Indians]]<br /> * [[Early human migrations]]<br /> * [[Andamanese]]<br /> * [[Irulas]]<br /> * [[Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis]]<br /> {{colend}}<br /> <br /> == Notes ==<br /> {{reflist|group=note|2}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{reflist|2}}<br /> <br /> == Sources ==<br /> ;Printed sources<br /> {{refbegin|35em}}<br /> &lt;!-- A --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Andronov |first=Mikhail Sergeevich | name-list-format = vanc |title=A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian Languages |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vhB60gYvnLgC&amp;pg=PA299 |year=2003 |publisher=Otto Harrassowitz Verlag |isbn=978-3-447-04455-4 |ref=harv }}<br /> * {{cite book | last=Anthony | first=David W. | name-list-format = vanc | year=2007 | title=The Horse The Wheel And Language. How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped The Modern World | publisher=Princeton University Press }}<br /> * {{cite journal |last=Appenzeller |first=Tim | name-list-format = vanc |year=2012 |title=Human migrations: Eastern odyssey. Humans had spread across Asia by 50,000 years ago. Everything else about our original exodus from Africa is up for debate. |journal=Nature |volume=485 |issue=7396 |url=http://www.nature.com/news/human-migrations-eastern-odyssey-1.10560|ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Wei LH, Kavitha VJ, Syama A, Arun VS, Sathua S, Sahoo R, Balakrishnan R, Riba T, Chakravarthy J, Chaudhury B | collaboration = The Genographic Consortium | year =2015 | title =A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west | journal =Journal of Systematics and Evolution |volume=53 |issue=6 |pages=546–560 | doi =10.1111/jse.12147| url =https://semanticscholar.org/paper/cb2c767a6f58bc2cf853fbf57ac38f1c5388cc32 |ref={{harvid|Arunkumar|2015}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- B --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | ref = {{sfnref|Basu et al.|2016}} | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Beckwith |first=Christopher I.| name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Christopher I. Beckwith |title=Empires of the Silk Road: A History of Central Eurasia from the Bronze Age to the Present |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=-Ue8BxLEMt4C |date=16 March 2009 |publisher=[[Princeton University Press]] |isbn=978-1-4008-2994-1 |access-date=30 December 2014 |ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite book | last=Bryant | first=Edwin | name-list-format = vanc | author-link=Edwin Bryant (author) | year=2001 | title=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate | publisher=Oxford University Press | isbn=978-0-19-513777-4 | title-link=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture }}.<br /> &lt;!-- C --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last1 =Cavalli-Sforza | first1 =Luigi Luca | last2 =Menozzi | first2 =Paolo | last3 =Piazza | first3 =Alberto | name-list-format = vanc | year =1994 | title =The History and Geography of Human Genes | publisher =Princeton University Press|ref={{harvid|Cavalli-Sforza|1994}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Choi Y, Mägi R, Romero IG, Soares P, van Oven M, Behar DM, Rootsi S, Hudjashov G, Mallick CB, Karmin M, Nelis M, Parik J, Reddy AG, Metspalu E, van Driem G, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C, Thangaraj K, Singh L, Remm M, Richards MB, Lahr MM, Kayser M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Population genetic structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: the role of landscape barriers and sex-specific admixture | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 28 | issue = 2 | pages = 1013–24 | date = February 2011 | pmid = 20978040 | pmc = 3355372 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq288 |ref={{harvid|Chaubey|2011}} }}<br /> * {{cite book | last1 =Coningham | first1 =Robin | last2 =Young | first2 =Ruth | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Archaeology of South Asia: From the Indus to Asoka, c.6500 BCE–200 CE | publisher =Cambridge University Press|ref=harv}}<br /> &lt;!-- D --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Bahmanimehr A, Denisova G, Perkova M, Farjadian S, Yepiskoposyan L | title = Complete mitochondrial DNA diversity in Iranians | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 8 | issue = 11 | pages = e80673 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24244704 | pmc = 3828245 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0080673 | bibcode = 2013PLoSO...880673D|ref={{harvid|Derenko|2013}} }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | chapter = South Asia and the Middle East | title = Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages | editor-last = Moseley | editor-first = Christopher | publisher = Routledge | year = 2007 | isbn = 978-0-7007-1197-0 | pages = 283–347|ref=harv }}<br /> * {{cite web | last =van Driem | first =George L. | name-list-format = vanc | year =2007b | title =Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies | url =http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf}}<br /> * {{cite journal | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | title = Tibeto-Burman subgroups and historical grammar | journal = Himalayan Linguistics Journal | volume = 10 | issue = 1 | year = 2011 | pages = 31–39 | url = http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | url-status = dead | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20120112220623/http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | archive-date = 12 January 2012 | df = dmy-all|ref=harv }}<br /> &lt;!-- J --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation | last1=Jones | first1=Eppie R. | year=2016 | title=Upper Palaeolithic genomes reveal deep roots of modern Eurasians |journal=Nature Communications |volume=6 |pages=8912 | doi=10.1038/ncomms9912 | pmid=26567969 | pmc=4660371|bibcode=2015NatCo...6E8912J }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Bamshad MJ, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Reidla M, Laos S, Parik J, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Papiha SS, Mastana SS, Mir MR, Ferak V, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Deep common ancestry of indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 9 | issue = 22 | pages = 1331–4 | date = November 1999 | pmid = 10574762 | doi = 10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 | url = http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | url-status = dead | df = dmy-all | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20051030014804/http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | archive-date = 30 October 2005 |ref={{harvid|Kivisild et al.|1999}} }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Kuz'mina |first=Elena Efimovna | name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Elena Efimovna Kuzmina |editor=J. P. Mallory |editor-link=J. P. Mallory |title=The Origin of the Indo-Iranians |publisher=Brill |year=2007 |isbn=978-90-04-16054-5|ref=harv}}<br /> &lt;!-- L --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation|last=Lazaridis |display-authors=etal|year =2016 | title =The genetic structure of the world's first farmers | | journal =Nature | series =Supplementary Information | volume =536 | issue =7617 | pages =419–424 | bibcode =2016Natur.536..419L | doi =10.1038/nature19310 | pmc =5003663 | pmid =27459054 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2016/06/16/059311.DC1/059311-1.pdf |ref={{harvid|Lazaridis et al.|2016}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Manickham |first=Sandra Khor| name-list-format = vanc |editor-last = Hägerdal | editor-first = Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 | ref = {{sfnref|Metspalu et al.|2011}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | ref = {{sfnref|Moorjani et al.|2013}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | name-list-format = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | journal =bioRxiv | pages =292581 | url =https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 }}<br /> * {{Citation | last =Narasimhan |display-authors=etal | title =The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =|ref=harv}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Palanichamy MG, Mitra B, Zhang CL, Debnath M, Li GM, Wang HW, Agrawal S, Chaudhuri TK, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = West Eurasian mtDNA lineages in India: an insight into the spread of the Dravidian language and the origins of the caste system | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 134 | issue = 6 | pages = 637–47 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25832481 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-015-1547-4 |ref={{harvid|Palanichamy|2015}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037|ref=harv }}<br /> &lt;!-- R --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last = Ruhlen | first = Merritt | authorlink = Merritt Ruhlen | name-list-format = vanc | title = A Guide to the World's Languages: Classification | publisher = Stanford University Press | year = 1991 | isbn = 978-0-8047-1894-3 }}<br /> * {{cite web | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2010 | title =A Dravidian solution to the Indus script problem | publisher =World Classical Tamil Conference | url = http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/00133/_A_Dravidian_Soluti_133901a.pdf }}<br /> * {{cite book | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Roots of Hinduism. The Early Arians and the Indus Civilization | publisher =Oxford University Press|ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | url = https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R | ref = {{sfnref|Reich et al.|2009}}}}<br /> &lt;!-- S --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation | last =da Silva |display-authors=etal | year =2017 | title =A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals | journal =BMC Evolutionary Biology volume 17, Article number: 88 (2017) | url =https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9}}<br /> * {{Citation | last =Shinde |display-authors=etal | year =2019 | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10 | pmid = 31495572 | pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}<br /> &lt;!-- V --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x | url = http://repository.ias.ac.in/21333/1/328.pdf |ref={{harvid|Vishwanathan|2004}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | year =2002 | publisher =Princeton University Press | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | year =2012 | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | publisher =Random House Publishing Group | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * {{cite book | last=Witzel | first=Michael | name-list-format = vanc | year=2005 | chapter=Indocentrism | editor-last1=Bryant | editor-first1=Edwin | editor-last2=Patton | editor-first2=Laurie L. | title=TheE Indo-Aryan Controversy. Evidence and inference in Indian history | publisher=Routledge | chapter-url=https://archive.org/details/EdwinBryantLauriePattonIndoAryanControversyEvidenceAndInferenceInIndianHistoryRoutledge2005|ref=harv}}<br /> &lt;!-- Z --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Zhang X, Liao S, Qi X, Liu J, Kampuansai J, Zhang H, Yang Z, Serey B, Sovannary T, Bunnath L, Seang Aun H, Samnom H, Kangwanpong D, Shi H, Su B | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro-Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent | journal = Scientific Reports | volume = 5 | pages = 15486 | date = October 2015 | pmid = 26482917 | pmc = 4611482 | doi = 10.1038/srep15486 | bibcode = 2015NatSR...515486Z |ref={{harvid|Zhang|2015}} }}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> ;Web-sources<br /> {{reflist|group=web}}<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> * {{Citation | last =Joseph | first =Tony | year =2018 | title =Early Indians: The Story of Our Ancestors and Where We Came From | publisher =Juggernaut|ref=none}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> ;Overview<br /> * Akhilesh Pillalamarri, ''Where Did Indians Come from'', [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/unraveled-where-indians-come-from-part-1/ part1], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-indians-come-from-part-2-dravidians-and-aryans/ part 2], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-did-indians-come-from-part-3-what-is-caste/ part 3]<br /> <br /> ;Genetics<br /> * Tony Joseph (16 June 2017), [http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-genetics-is-settling-the-aryan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece ''How genetics is settling the Aryan migration debate''], The Hindu<br /> * Tony Joseph (2018), [https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/genomic-study-vedic-aryan-migration-dravidian-languages-sanskrit ''How We, The Indians, Came to Be''] (summary of Narasimhan (2018)<br /> * Scroll.in, {{cite web|url=https://scroll.in/article/874102/aryan-migration-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-study-on-indian-genetics|title=Aryan migration: Everything you need to know about the new study on Indian genetics}}, on Narasimhan (2018)<br /> * The Economic Times (12 October 2019), [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/steppe-migration-to-india-was-between-3500-4000-years-ago-david-reich/articleshow/71556277.cms?from=mdr Steppe migration to India was between 3500-4000 years ago: David Reich]<br /> <br /> ;Negritos<br /> * [https://thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com/tag/negrito/ thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com, ''Negrito'']<br /> <br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:History of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Peopling of the world|India]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&diff=940558167 Peopling of India 2020-02-13T06:43:12Z <p>Ilber8000: See talk page</p> <hr /> <div>{{short description|Immigration patterns of different races of people of India}}<br /> {{See also|Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia}}<br /> {{Use dmy dates|date=February 2020}}<br /> {{Use Indian English|date=March 2017}}<br /> [[File:Spreading homo sapiens la.svg|thumb|upright=1.5|Successive dispersals of {{color box|#e8e22c}} ''[[Homo erectus]]'' (yellow), {{color box|#e4ca30}} ''[[Homo neanderthalensis]]'' (ochre) and {{color box|#e9252c}} ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' (red).]]<br /> The '''peopling of India''' refers to the migration of ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' into the Indian subcontinent. [[Homo sapiens#Anatomical modernity|Anatomically modern humans]] settled India in multiple waves of [[Early human migrations|early migrations]], over tens of millennia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url= https://www.openthemagazine.com/article/books/migrant-nation |title=Migrant Nation }}&lt;/ref&gt; The first migrants came with the Southern Coastal dispersal, ca. 65,000 years ago, whereafter complex migrations within south and southeast Asia took place. West Eurasian hunter-gatherers migrated to South Asia after the latest Ice Age, but before the onset of farming. Together with a minor number of ancient South Asian hunter-gatherers they formed the population of the Indus Valley Civilisation. <br /> <br /> With the decline of the IVC, and the migration of [[Indo-European migrations|Indo-Europeans]], the IVC-people contributed to the formation of Ancestral North Indians (&quot;ANI&quot;), who were closely related to west Eurasians, and Ancestral South Asians (&quot;ASI&quot;), who were mainly descended from the ancient South Asian hunter-gatherers (&quot;Ancient Ancestral South Asians&quot; or &quot;AASI&quot;), who were distantly related to the [[Andamanese]]. These two ancestral populations mixed, while the migrations of the Munda people and the Tibeto-Burmese speaking people from [[East Asia]] also added new elements.<br /> <br /> ==First modern human settlers==<br /> {{main|Recent African origin of modern humans}}<br /> {{See also|Paleolithic|Paleolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> ===Pre- or post-Toba===<br /> The dating of the earliest successful migration modern humans out of Africa is a matter of dispute.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2012}} It may have pre- or post-dated the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba catastrophe]], a volcanic [[Supervolcano|super eruption]] that took place between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at the site of present-day [[Lake Toba]]. According to Michael Petraglia, stone tools discovered below the layers of ash deposits in India at [[Jwalapuram]], Andhra Pradesh point to a pre-Toba dispersal. The population who created these tools is not known with certainty as no human remains were found.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2012}} An indication for post-Toba is [[Haplogroup L3 (mtDNA)|haplogroup L3]], that originated before the dispersal of humans out of Africa, and can be dated to 60,000–70,000 years ago, &quot;suggesting that humanity left Africa a few thousand years after Toba.&quot;{{sfn|Appenzeller|2012}}<br /> <br /> ====Impact====<br /> It has been hypothesized that the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba supereruption]] about 74,000 years ago destroyed much of India's central forests, covering it with a layer of volcanic ash, and may have brought humans worldwide to a state of near-extinction by suddenly plunging the planet into an ice-age that could have lasted for up to 1,800 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Supervolcano Eruption – In Sumatra – Deforested India 73,000 Years Ago | date=24 November 2009 | access-date=1 March 2011 | journal=ScienceDaily | url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091123142739.htm | quote=''... new study provides &quot;incontrovertible evidence&quot; that the volcanic super-eruption of Toba on the island of Sumatra about 73,000 years ago deforested much of central India, some 3,000 miles from the epicenter ... initiating an &quot;Instant Ice Age&quot; that – according to evidence in ice cores taken in Greenland – lasted about 1,800 years ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; If true, this may &quot;explain the apparent [[population bottleneck|bottleneck in human populations]] that geneticists believe occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago&quot; and the relative &quot;lack of genetic diversity among humans alive today.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Since the Toba event is believed to have had such a harsh impact and &quot;specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash,&quot; it was &quot;difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref59movel&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Out of Eden: the peopling of the world | first = Stephen | last = Oppenheimer Chaudhuri | publisher=Robinson | date = 2004 | isbn=978-1-84119-894-1 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=H_zwAAAAMAAJ | quote=''... The Toba event specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash. It is difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters. So, we could predict a broad human extinction ...'' }}&lt;/ref&gt; Therefore, it was believed that all humans previously present in India went extinct during, or shortly after, this event and these first Indians left &quot;no trace of their DNA in present-day humans&quot; – a theory seemingly backed by genetic studies.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref67curug&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=The evolution and history of human populations in South Asia: Inter-disciplinary Studies in Archaeology, Biological Anthropology, Linguistics and Genetics | first1 = Michael D. | last1 = Petraglia | first2 = Bridget | last2 = Allchin | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer, 2007 | isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC | quote=... had H. sapiens colonized India before the eruption? The majority of genetic evidence seems to suggest that the initial colonization of India took place soon after the Toba event. It should be noted, however, that on the basis of this evidence, the hypothesis that modern human populations inhabited India before ~74ka and underwent extinction as a result of Toba cannot be ruled out. If population extinction occurred, there would be no trace of their DNA in present-day humans ...|date=22 May 2007 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Pre-Toba tools====<br /> Research published in 2009 by a team led by Michael Petraglia of the [[University of Oxford]] suggested that some humans may have survived the hypothesized catastrophe on the Indian mainland. Undertaking &quot;[[Pompeii]]-like excavations&quot; under the layer of Toba ash, the team discovered tools and human habitations from both before and after the eruption.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;&gt;{{cite web | title=New evidence shows populations survived the Toba super-eruption 74,000 years ago | publisher=University of Oxford | date=22 February 2009 | access-date=1 March 2011 | url=http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | quote=... Newly discovered archaeological sites in southern and northern India have revealed how people lived before and after the colossal Toba volcanic eruption 74,000 years ago. The international, multidisciplinary research team, led by Oxford University in collaboration with Indian institutions, has uncovered what it calls ‘Pompeii-like excavations’ beneath the Toba ash ... suggests that human populations were present in India prior to 74,000 years ago, or about 15,000 years earlier than expected based on some genetic clocks,’ said project director Dr Michael Petraglia ... | url-status=dead | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101230210026/http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | archive-date=30 December 2010 | df=dmy-all }}&lt;/ref&gt; However, human fossils have not been found from this period, and nothing is known of the ethnicity of these early humans in India.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;/&gt; Recent research also by Macauly et al. (2005){{sfn|Macauly|2005}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot; /&gt; and Posth et al. (2016),{{sfn|Posth|Renaud|Mittnik|Drucker|2016}} also argue for a post-Toba dispersal.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot;&gt;[http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/science-magazine.php Bradshaw Foundation, ''Human Migration'']&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Early [[South Asian Stone Age|Stone Age]] hominin fossils have been found in the Narmada valley of Madhya Pradesh. Some have been dated to 200- 700,000 BP. It is uncertain what species they represent.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kennedy KA, Sonakia A, Chiment J, Verma KK | title = Is the Narmada hominid an Indian Homo erectus? | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 86 | issue = 4 | pages = 475–96 | date = December 1991 | pmid = 1776655 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.1330860404 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Post-Toba Southern Coastal dispersal====<br /> {{see|Southern Dispersal|Proto-Australoid}}<br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | align = right<br /> | direction = vertical<br /> | width = 200<br /> | header = Migrations routes according to the [[Coastal Migration]] Model<br /> | image1 = Peopling of eurasia.jpg<br /> | alt1 = <br /> | caption1 = Note the route of the mtDNA [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|Haplogroup M]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]], to [[Andaman Islands]] and [[Southeast Asia]].<br /> | image2 = C=M130-Migration.jpg<br /> | alt2 = <br /> | caption2 = Note the route of the Y-DNA [[Haplogroup C-M130|Haplogroup C]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]] to [[Australia]].<br /> | image3 = Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG<br /> | alt3 = <br /> | caption3 = Y-DNA [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and it's descendants. <br /> }}<br /> By some 70-50,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;Hirst&quot;&gt;{{cite web | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm | first = K. Kris | last = Hirst | name-list-format = vanc | title = Southern Dispersal Route – Early Modern Humans Leave Africa | work = About.com }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Posth|Renaud|Mittnik|Drucker|2016}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Karmin M, Saag L, Vicente M, Wilson Sayres MA, Järve M, Talas UG, Rootsi S, Ilumäe AM, Mägi R, Mitt M, Pagani L, Puurand T, Faltyskova Z, Clemente F, Cardona A, Metspalu E, Sahakyan H, Yunusbayev B, Hudjashov G, DeGiorgio M, Loogväli EL, Eichstaedt C, Eelmets M, Chaubey G, Tambets K, Litvinov S, Mormina M, Xue Y, Ayub Q, Zoraqi G, Korneliussen TS, Akhatova F, Lachance J, Tishkoff S, Momynaliev K, Ricaut FX, Kusuma P, Razafindrazaka H, Pierron D, Cox MP, Sultana GN, Willerslev R, Muller C, Westaway M, Lambert D, Skaro V, Kovačevic L, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Khusainova R, Trofimova N, Akhmetova V, Khidiyatova I, Lichman DV, Isakova J, Pocheshkhova E, Sabitov Z, Barashkov NA, Nymadawa P, Mihailov E, Seng JW, Evseeva I, Migliano AB, Abdullah S, Andriadze G, Primorac D, Atramentova L, Utevska O, Yepiskoposyan L, Marjanovic D, Kushniarevich A, Behar DM, Gilissen C, Vissers L, Veltman JA, Balanovska E, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Metspalu A, Fedorova S, Eriksson A, Manica A, Mendez FL, Karafet TM, Veeramah KR, Bradman N, Hammer MF, Osipova LP, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Johnsen K, Remm M, Thomas MG, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Willerslev E, Nielsen R, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = A recent bottleneck of Y chromosome diversity coincides with a global change in culture | journal = Genome Research | volume = 25 | issue = 4 | pages = 459–66 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25770088 | pmc = 4381518 | doi = 10.1101/gr.186684.114 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;ReferenceC&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Haber M, Jones AL, Connell BA, Arciero E, Yang H, Thomas MG, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications for the Expansion of Modern Humans Out of Africa | journal = Genetics | volume = 212 | issue = 4 | pages = 1421–1428 | date = August 2019 | pmid = 31196864 | pmc = 6707464 | doi = 10.1534/genetics.119.302368 }}&lt;/ref&gt; only a small group, possibly as few as 150 to 1,000 people, crossed the Red Sea.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |year=2008 |first=Gary |last=Stix | name-list-format = vanc |url=http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-migration-history-of-humans|title=The Migration History of Humans: DNA Study Traces Human Origins Across the Continents|access-date=14 June 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt; The group that crossed the Red Sea travelled along the coastal route around the coast of [[Arabia]] and [[Persia]] until reaching India, which appears to be the first major settling point.&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid15339343&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | issue = | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 | ref = harv }}&lt;/ref&gt; Geneticist [[Spencer Wells]] says that the early travellers followed the southern coastline of Asia, crossed about {{convert|250|km|0|abbr=out}} of sea, and colonized Australia by around 50,000 years ago. The [[Australian Aborigines|Aborigines of Australia]], Wells says, are the descendants of the first wave of migrations.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7358868.stm |title= Human line 'nearly split in two' |publisher= BBC News |date= 24 April 2008 | access-date=31 December 2009 | first=Paul | last=Rincon | name-list-format = vanc }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The oldest definitively identified Homo sapiens fossils yet found in South Asia are [[Balangoda Man|Balangoda man]]. Named for the location in Sri Lanka where they were discovered, they are at least 28,000 years old.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Deraniyagala|first=Siran U.| name-list-format = vanc |date=1 June 1989|title=Fossil Remains of 28,000-Year-Old Hominids from Sri Lanka|journal=Current Anthropology|volume=30|issue=3|pages=394–399|doi=10.1086/203757|issn=0011-3204}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===AASI===<br /> Narashimhan et al. (2018) <br /> introduced the term AASI for these oldest human habitants, &quot;Ancient Ancestral South Indian,&quot;{{refn|group=note|ASI was synonyms to AASI before 2018.{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}}} which were related to the East Asian, Onge and Aboriginal Australian ancestors. It is deeply related to Andaman islanders.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009|p=40}}&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019|p=9}} According to Narashimhan et al. (2019), &quot;essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.&quot;{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}<br /> <br /> ====Relation to Andaman Islanders==== <br /> {{see also|Andaman Islands|Andamanese people|Sentinelese people|Sentinelese language}}<br /> <br /> Several genetic studies have found evidence of a distant common ancestry between native Andaman Islanders and the AASI/ASI ancestral component found in South Asians.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009|p=40}} Modern South Asians have not been found to carry the paternal lineages common in the Andamanese, which has been suggested to indicate that certain paternal lineages may have become extinct in India, or that they may be very rare and have not yet been sampled.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Endicott P, Gilbert MT, Stringer C, Lalueza-Fox C, Willerslev E, Hansen AJ, Cooper A | title = The genetic origins of the Andaman Islanders | language = English | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 1 | pages = 178–84 | date = January 2003 | pmid = 12478481 | pmc = 378623 | doi = 10.1086/345487 }}&lt;/ref&gt; Chaubey and Endicott (2013) further noted that &quot;Overall, the Andamanese are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians (as well as being closer to Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians).&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Endicott P | title = The Andaman Islanders in a regional genetic context: reexamining the evidence for an early peopling of the archipelago from South Asia | journal = Human Biology | volume = 85 | issue = 1–3 | pages = 153–72 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24297224 | doi = 10.3378/027.085.0307 | url = https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|Chaubey and Endicott (2013):&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;&lt;br&gt;* &quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled less than ~26 ka and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and [[Great Andamanese]] commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)&lt;br&gt;* &quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)}}<br /> <br /> Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI &quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time.&quot;{{sfn|Shinde|2019}} According to Yelmen et al. (2019) the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and not closely related, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for ASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not detected in the northern Indian [[Gujarati people|Gujarati]], and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=1 August 2019|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Narashimhan et al. (2019), the &quot;AASI&quot; component in South Asians shares a common root with the Andamanese (as exemplified by the Onge as proxy) and is distantly related to the Onge (Andamanese), East Asians, and Aboriginal Australians (with those groups and the AASI sharing a deep ancestral split around the same time).{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019|p=9}}<br /> <br /> ====Relation to &quot;Negritos&quot;====<br /> {{see also|Negrito|Andaman Islands|Andamanese people}}<br /> <br /> The present-day Andamese are considered to be part of the &quot;Negritos,&quot; several diverse ethnic groups who inhabit isolated parts of [[Austronesia]].&lt;ref&gt;Snow, Philip. ''The Star Raft: China's Encounter With Africa.'' Cornell Univ. Press, 1989 ({{ISBN|0801495830}})&lt;/ref&gt; Based on their physical similarities, Negritos were once considered a single population of related people, but the appropriateness of using the label 'Negrito' to bundle together peoples of different [[ethnicity]] based on similarities in stature and complexion has been challenged.&lt;ref name=Manickham-2009&gt;{{cite book|last=Manickham|first=Sandra Khor|editor=Hägerdal, Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}&lt;/ref&gt; Recent research suggests that the Negritos include several separate groups, as well as demonstrating that they are not closely related to the Pygmies of Africa.&lt;ref&gt;S. Noerwidi, &quot;Using Dental Metrical Analysis to Determine the Terminal Pleistocene and Holocene Population History of Java&quot;, in: Philip J. Piper, Hirofumi Matsumura, David Bulbeck (eds.), New Perspectives in Southeast Asian and Pacific Prehistory (2017), [https://books.google.ch/books?id=CDDFDgAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PA92 p. 92].&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Vishwanathan et al. (2004), the typical &quot;negrito&quot; features could also have been developed by [[convergent evolution]].{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to [[Gyaneshwer Chaubey]] and Endicott (2013), &quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as 'negritos.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt; Basu et al. 2016 concluded that the Andamanese have a distinct ancestry and are not closely related to other South Asians, but are closer to Southeast Asian Negritos, indicating that South Asian peoples do not descend directly from &quot;Negritos&quot; as such.{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> ===Sri Lankan Vedda===<br /> {{see also|Vedda people}}<br /> <br /> Groups ancestral to the modern [[Vedda people|Veddas]] were probably the earliest inhabitants of Sri Lanka. Their arrival is dated tentatively to about 40,000–35,000 years ago. They are genetically distinguishable from the other peoples of Sri Lanka, and they show a high degree of intra-group diversity. This is consistent with a long history of existing as small subgroups undergoing significant [[genetic drift]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Deraniyagala SU | title = Pre-and protohistoric settlement in Sri Lanka. | journal = XIII UISPP Congress Proceedings | date = September 1996 | volume = 5 | pages = 277–285 | url = http://www.lankalibrary.com/geo/dera1.html }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Ranaweera_2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Ranaweera L, Kaewsutthi S, Win Tun A, Boonyarit H, Poolsuwan S, Lertrit P | title = Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 59 | issue = 1 | pages = 28–36 | date = January 2014 | pmid = 24196378 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.112 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Latest Glacial Maximum==<br /> ==Holocene==<br /> {{Main|Holocene|Neolithic|Neolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> After the last [[Ice age|glacial maximum]], human populations started to grow and migrate. With the invention of agriculture, the so-called Neolithic revolution, larger numbers of people could be sustained. The use of metals (copper, bronze, iron) further changed human ways of life, giving an initial advance to early users, and aiding further migrations, and admixture.<br /> <br /> According to Silva et al. (2017), multiple waves of migration from western Eurasia took place after the last Ice Age, both before and after the advent of farming in South Asia.{{sfn|da Silva|2017}} According to Narasimhan et al. (2019), people related to Iranian hunter-gatherers were present in South Asia before the advent of farming. They mixed with Ancestral Ancient South Asians (AASI) to form the Indus Valley population. With the decline of the IVC after 1900 BCE and the arrival of the Indo-Aryans, IVC-people mixed with incoming Indo-Aryans, forming the Ancestral North Indians (ANI). Other IVC-people mixed with AASI forming the Ancestral South Indians (ASI).{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}}<br /> <br /> These two ancestral groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to [[endogamy]] took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; during the Hindu [[Gupta empire|Gupta rule]].{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} Reich et al. stated that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers”.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}} <br /> <br /> Basu et al. (2016) note that mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}}} namely Ancestral Austro-Asiatic (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}<br /> <br /> ==West Eurasian ancestry==<br /> {{See also|Dravidian peoples|Indus Valley Civilisation|Mehrgarh}}<br /> <br /> ===Pre-farming Iranian hunter-gatherers===<br /> Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019) conclude that west Eurasian ancestry was already present before the advent of farming in South Asia.{{sfn|da Silva|2017}}{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}<br /> <br /> Metspalu et al. (2011) detected a genetic component in India, k5, which &quot;distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus&quot;.{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|pp=734–735}} According to Metspalu et al. (2011), k5 &quot;might represent the genetic vestige of the ANI&quot;, though they also note that the geographic cline of this component within India &quot;is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model&quot;, explaining that the ASI-ANI model implies an ANI contribution which decreases toward southern India.{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|p=739}} According to Metspalu et al. (2011), &quot;regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years.&quot;{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|p=740}} <br /> <br /> Speaking to Fountain Ink, Metspalu said, &quot;the West Eurasian component in Indians appears to come from a population that diverged genetically from people actually living in Eurasia, and this separation happened at least 12,500 years ago.&quot;&lt;ref group=web name=Perur /&gt;{{refn|group=note|Note that according to Jones et al. (2015), Caucasian Hunter Gatherers and &quot;the ancestors of Neolithic farmers&quot; split circa 25,000 years ago: &quot;Caucasus hunter-gatherers (CHG) belong to a distinct ancient clade that split from western hunter-gatherers ~45 kya, shortly after the expansion of anatomically modern humans into Europe and from the ancestors of Neolithic farmers ~25 kya, around the Last Glacial Maximum. CHG genomes significantly contributed to the Yamnaya steppe herders who migrated into Europe B3,000 BC, supporting a formative Caucasus influence on this important Early Bronze age culture.&quot;{{sfn|Jones|2016}}}} Moorjani et al. (2013) refer to Metspalu (2011)&lt;!--**START OF NOTE**--&gt;{{refn|group=note|The reference is to a &quot;recent study&quot;, and gives Kivisild et al. (1999). Kivisild (1999) does not mention the number 12,500, nor does it explicitly make such a statement. What it does state is that western-Eurasian and Indian mtDNA lineages overlap in haplogroup U;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1331}} that the split between the western-Eurasian and Indian U2 lineages appeared circa 53,000 ± 4,000 years before present;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1331}} and that &quot;despite their equally deep time depth, the Indian U2 has not penetrated western Eurasia, and the European U5 has almost not reached India.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1332}} They further note that wester-Eurasian mtDNA lineages did spread in India at the time of the spread of agricultural crops from the fertile Crescent.{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|pp=1332–1333}} Metspalu et al. (2011) ''do'' refer to 12,500 years ago.{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|p=740}} Apparently, the reference to Kivisld (1999) is incorrect, and was not noticed by the authors.}}&lt;!--**END OF NOTE**--&gt; as &quot;fail[ing] to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years&quot;.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013|p=430}} CCMB researcher Thangaraj believes that &quot;it was much longer ago&quot;, and that &quot;the ANI came to India in a second wave of migration{{refn|group=note|After the initial settlement of India by the ASI.}} that happened perhaps 40,000 years ago.&quot;&lt;ref group=web name=Perur&gt;[https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Press_files/Fountain%20Ink%20-%20December%202013%20-%20Cover.pdf Srinath Perur (December 2013), ''The origins of Indians. What our genes are telling us.'', Fountain Ink] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160304073824/http://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Press_files/Fountain%20Ink%20-%20December%202013%20-%20Cover.pdf |date=4 March 2016 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Possible migration of Iranian neolithic farmers===<br /> According to Gallego Romero et al. (2011), their research on lactose tolerance in India suggests that &quot;the west Eurasian genetic contribution identified by Reich et al. (2009) principally reflects gene flow from Iran and the Middle East.&quot;{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011|p=9}} Gallego Romero notes that Indians who are lactose-tolerant show a genetic pattern regarding this tolerance which is &quot;characteristic of the common European mutation.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | url = http://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2011/09/14/lactose-tolerance-in-the-indian-dairyland/ | first = Rob | last = Mitchum | name-list-format = vanc | title = Lactose Tolerance in the Indian Dairyland | work = ScienceLife | publisher = UChicago Medicine | date = 14 September 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Romero, this suggests that &quot;the most common lactose tolerance mutation made a two-way migration out of the Middle East less than 10,000 years ago. While the mutation spread across Europe, another explorer must have brought the mutation eastward to India – likely traveling along the coast of the Persian Gulf where other pockets of the same mutation have been found.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Mehrgarh (7000&amp;nbsp;BCE to c. 2500&amp;nbsp;BCE), to the west of the [[Indus River]] valley,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4882968.stm |title=Stone age man used dentist drill | work = BBC News | date = 6 April 2006 }}&lt;/ref&gt; is a precursor of the Indus Valley Civilisation, whose inhabitants migrated into the Indus Valley and became the Indus Valley Civilisation.{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}} It is one of the earliest sites with evidence of farming and herding in [[South Asia]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | work = UNESCO World Heritage | date = 2004 | url = https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1876/ | title = Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | last = Hirst | first = K. Kris | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2005 | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/g/mehrgarh.htm | title = Mehrgarh | work = Guide to Archaeology }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Lukacs and Hemphill, while there is a strong continuity between the neolithic and [[chalcolithic]] (Copper Age) cultures of Mehrgarh, dental evidence shows that the chalcolithic population did not descend from the neolithic population of Mehrgarh,{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} which &quot;suggests moderate levels of gene flow.&quot;{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} They further noted that &quot;the direct lineal descendents of the Neolithic inhabitants of Mehrgarh are to be found to the south and the east of Mehrgarh, in northwestern India and the western edge of the Deccan plateau,&quot; with neolithic Mehrgarh showing greater affinity with chalcolithic [[Inamgaon]], south of Mehrgarh, than with chalcolithic Mehrgarh.{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}}<br /> <br /> ====Elamite-Dravidian hypothesis====<br /> {{Main|Elamo-Dravidian languages}}<br /> <br /> While the IVC has been linked to the early [[Dravidian peoples]], some scholars have suggested that their neolithic farmer predecessors may have migrated from the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] to northern South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/jgen/087/02/0175-0179&lt;/ref&gt; According to David McAlpin, the Dravidian languages were brought to India by immigration into India from [[Elam]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin D, Emeneau MB, Jacobsen Jr WH, Kuiper FB, Paper HH, Reiner E, Stopa R, Vallat F, Wescott RW | chapter = Elamite and Dravidian: Further Evidence of Relationship [and Comments and Reply]. | title = Current Anthropology | date = March 1975 | volume = 16 | issue = 1 | pages = 105–15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin DW | chapter = Linguistic prehistory: the Dravidian situation. | title = Aryan and Non-Aryan | date = 1979 | pages = 175–89 | publisher = Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of Michigan | location = Ann Arbor}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McAlpin DW | title = Proto-Elamo-Dravidian: The evidence and its implications. | journal = Transactions of the American Philosophical Society | date = January 1981 | volume = 71 | issue = 3 | pages = 1–55 | doi = 10.2307/1006352 | jstor = 1006352 | url = https://semanticscholar.org/paper/897c74bc98e62cec162ddf7f75af4650c27147e1 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Genetic Disorders of the Indian Subcontinent | first = Dhavendra | last = Kumar | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer | year=2004 | access-date=25 November 2008 | isbn=978-1-4020-1215-0 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bpl0LXKj13QC | quote=... The analysis of two Y chromosome variants, Hgr9 and Hgr3 provides interesting data (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). Microsatellite variation of Hgr9 among Iranians, Pakistanis and Indians indicate an expansion of populations to around 9000 YBP in Iran and then to 6,000 YBP in India. This migration originated in what was historically termed Elam in south-west Iran to the Indus valley, and may have been associated with the spread of Dravidian languages from south-west Iran (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Renfrew and Cavalli-Sforza, proto-Dravidian was brought to India by farmers from the Iranian part of the Fertile Crescent,{{sfn|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|p=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;mukherjee2001&quot; &gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/bf02717908 | quote = ... More recently, about 15,000-10,000 years before present (ybp), when agriculture developed in the Fertile Crescent region that extends from Israel through northern Syria to western Iran, there was another eastward wave of human migration (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994; Renfrew 1987), a part of which also appears to have entered India. This wave has been postulated to have brought the Dravidian languages into India (Renfrew 1987). Subsequently, the Indo-European (Aryan) language family was introduced into India about 4,000 ybp ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}{{refn|group=note|Derenko: &quot;The spread of these new technologies has been associated with the dispersal of Dravidian and Indo-European languages in southern Asia. It is hypothesized that the proto-Elamo-Dravidian language, most likely originated in the Elam province in southwestern Iran, spread eastwards with the movement of farmers to the Indus Valley and the Indian sub-continent.&quot;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Derenko refers to:&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1987), ''Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins''&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1996), ''Language families and the spread of farming.'' In: Harris DR, editor, ''The origins and spread of Agriculture and Pastoralism in Eurasia'', pp. 70–92&lt;br&gt;* Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, Piazza (1994), ''The History and Geography of Human Genes''.}} but more recently Heggerty and Renfrew (2014) noted that &quot;McAlpin's analysis of the language data, and thus his claims, remain far from orthodoxy&quot;, adding that Fuller finds no relation of Dravidian language with other languages, and thus assumes it to be native to India.&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew&gt;{{cite book |last1=Heggarty |first1=Paul |last2=Renfrew |first2=Collin | name-list-format = vanc |year=2014|chapter=South and Island Southeast Asia; Languages|editor-last1=Renfrew|editor-first1=Colin|editor-last2=Bahn|editor-first2=Paul|title=The Cambridge World Prehistory|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vWbwAwAAQBAJ|publisher=Cambridge University Press}}&lt;/ref&gt; Renfrew and Bahn conclude that several scenarios are compatible with the data, and that &quot;the linguistic jury is still very much out.&quot;&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew/&gt;{{refn|group=note|The Elamite-hypothesis has drawn attention in the scholarly literature, but has never been fully accpeted:&lt;br&gt;* According to Mikhail Andronov, Dravidian languages were brought to India at the beginning of the third millennium BCE.{{sfn|Andronov|2003|p=299}}&lt;br&gt;* Kivisild et al. (1999) note that &quot;a small fraction of the West Eurasian mtDNA lineages found in Indian populations can be ascribed to a relatively recent admixture.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1331}} at ca. 9,300 ± 3,000 years before present,{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1333}} which coincides with &quot;the arrival to India of cereals domesticated in the [[Fertile Crescent]]&quot; and &quot;lends credence to the suggested [[Elamo-Dravidian languages|linguistic connection]] between the Elamite and Dravidic populations.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999|p=1333}}&lt;br&gt;* According to Palanichamy et al. (2015), &quot;The presence of mtDNA haplogroups (HV14 and U1a) and Y-chromosome haplogroup ([[Haplogroup L-M20|L1]]) in Dravidian populations indicates the spread of the Dravidian language into India from west Asia.&quot;{{sfnp|Palanichamy|2015|p=645}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; According to Krishnamurti, Proto-Dravidian may have been spoken in the Indus civilization, suggesting a &quot;tentative date of Proto-Dravidian around the early part of the third millennium.&quot;{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501}} Krishnamurti further states that South Dravidian I (including pre-Tamil) and South Dravidian II (including Pre-Telugu) split around the eleventh century BCE, with the other major branches splitting off at around the same time.{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501-502}}}}<br /> <br /> According to another study in 2016, evidence support that the neolithic farmers ancestry component forms the main ancestry of modern South Asians. These neolithic farmers migrated from the [[Fertile Crescent|fertile crescent]], most likely from a region near the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] in modern day Iran, to South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm|title=Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians|website=ScienceDaily|language=en|access-date=20 January 2020}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Indus Valley Civilisation==<br /> Shinde et al. (2019) and Narasimhan et al. (2019), analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), conclude that the IVC-population was a mixture people related to Iranians and AASI:{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}} <br /> {{quote|&quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;{{sfn|Shinde|2019}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Shinde et al. (2019) about 50-98% of the IVC-genome came from people related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of the IVC-genome came from native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common ancestry with the Andamanese.{{sfn|Shinde|2019}} According to Narasimhan et al. (2019) found 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry).{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}} The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;Steppe ancestry&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.{{sfn|Shinde|2019}}{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}<br /> <br /> ==Indo-Aryans==<br /> [[File:IE expansion.png|thumb|right|Scheme of the theoretical Indo-European migrations, of which the Indo-Aryan migrations form a part, from c. 4000 to 1000 BCE according to the [[Kurgan hypothesis]].&lt;br /&gt;* The magenta area corresponds to the assumed ''[[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|Urheimat]]'' ([[Samara culture]], [[Sredny Stog culture]]) and the subsequent [[Yamna culture]].&lt;br /&gt;* The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to c. 2500 BCE.&lt;br /&gt;* The orange area to 1000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=30}}]]<br /> {{Main|Indo-Aryan peoples|Indo-Aryan migration theory#genetics}}<br /> <br /> In the second millennium BCE people from the [[Sintashta culture]]{{sfn|Anthony|2007|pp=408–411}}{{sfn|Kuz'mina|2007|p=222}} migrated through [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]] and into the northern [[Indian subcontinent]] (modern day [[India]], [[Pakistan]], [[Bangladesh]] and [[Nepal]]). The Indo-Aryan migrations started in approximately 1,800 BCE, after the invention of the [[Chariot|war chariot]], and also brought Indo-Aryan languages into the [[Levant]] and possibly [[Inner Asia]]. {{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=33}}{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}}{{refn|group=note|Pathak et al. (2018) concluded that the [[Indo-Aryan languages|Indo-Aryan]] speakers of [[Gangetic Plains]] and some [[Dravidian languages|Dravidian]] speakers in central India have significant [[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya Early-Middle Bronze Age]] (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry. The &quot;North-Western Indian and Pakistani&quot; populations (PNWI) showed additionally significant Steppe_MLBA ancestry along with Yamnaya (Steppe_EMBA) ancestry. The study also suggested that the [[Ror|Rors]] could be used as a proxy for the ANI.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last1=Villems|first1=Richard|last2=Pathak|first2=Ajay|date=December 2018|title=The Genetic Ancestry of Modern Indus Valley Populations from Northwest India|url=https://www.cell.com/ajhg/pdfExtended/S0002-9297(18)30398-7|journal=The American Journal of Human Genetics|volume=|pages=|via=|name-list-format=vanc}}&lt;/ref&gt;}}<br /> <br /> The [[Proto-Indo-Iranians]], from which the [[Indo-Aryans]] developed, are identified with the [[Sintashta culture]] (2100–1800 BCE),{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=390 (fig. 15.9), 405–411}} and the [[Andronovo culture]],{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=49}} which flourished ca. 1800–1400 BCE in the steppes around the [[Aral sea]], present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. The proto-Indo-Iranians were influenced by the [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]], south of the Andronovo culture, from which they borrowed their distinctive religious beliefs and practices. The Indo-Aryans split off around 1800–1600 BCE from the Iranians,{{sfn|Anthony|2007|p=408}} whereafter the Indo-Aryans migrated into the Levant and north-western India.<br /> <br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes that the demographic impact of steppe related populations on South Asia was substantial and forms the major component in northern India.{{sfnp|Lazaridis et al.|2016|pp=123}} Lazaridis et al.'s 2016 study estimates 6.5–50.2&amp;nbsp;% steppe related admixture in all modern South Asians with a majority found in most Indo-Aryan speaking groups.{{refn|Lazaridis et al. (2016) Supplementary Information, Table S9.1: &quot;Kalash – 50.2&amp;nbsp;%, Tiwari Brahmins – 44.1&amp;nbsp;%, Gujarati (four samples) – 46.1&amp;nbsp;% to 27.5&amp;nbsp;%, Pathan – 44.6&amp;nbsp;%, Burusho – 42.5&amp;nbsp;%, Sindhi – 37.7&amp;nbsp;%, Punjabi – 32.6&amp;nbsp;%, Balochi – 32.4&amp;nbsp;%, Brahui – 30.2&amp;nbsp;%, Lodhi – 29.3&amp;nbsp;%, Bengali – 24.6&amp;nbsp;%, Vishwabhramin – 20.4&amp;nbsp;%, Makrani – 19.2&amp;nbsp;%, Mala – 18.4&amp;nbsp;%, Kusunda – 8.9&amp;nbsp;%, Kharia – 6.5&amp;nbsp;%.&quot;|group=note}}<br /> <br /> ==Post-IVC: ANI and ASI ancestral components in the Indian population==<br /> A series of studies since 2009-2019 have shown that the [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} formed in the 2nd milllennium BCE,{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI), which is broadly related to West Eurasians, and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Narasimhan|2019}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}} ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers.<br /> <br /> ASI formed as mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group who moved south and mixed further with AASI-related ancestry. &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group did not carry steppe admixture and were instead mixture of Neolithic Iran-related ancestry and hypothesized AASI-related ancestry. According Narasimhan et al. 2018, the genetic makeup of the ASI population consisted of about 73% AASI and about 27% from Iranian-related peoples.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}<br /> <br /> ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from Bronze age steppe.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} Lazaridis et al. (2016){{refn|group=note|According to Lazaridis et al. (2016) ANI-related ancestry in South Asians can be modeled as a mix of ancestry related to both early farmers of Iran and to people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe ([[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya component]]).{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016}}}} notes that the demographic impact of steppe related populations on South Asia was substantial, and forms the major component in northern India. According to the results, the [[Mala (caste)|Mala]], a south Indian [[Dalit]] population with minimal Ancestral North Indian (ANI) along the 'Indian Cline' have nevertheless ~&amp;nbsp;18&amp;nbsp;% steppe-related ancestry, showing the strong influence of ANI ancestry in all populations of India. The [[Kalash people|Kalash]] of Pakistan are inferred to have ~&amp;nbsp;50&amp;nbsp;% steppe-related ancestry, with the rest being of Iranian farmers ancestry.{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016}}{{refn|group=note|Lazaridis et al. (2016) Supplementary Information, Table S9.1: &quot;Kalash – 50.2&amp;nbsp;%, Tiwari Brahmins – 44.1&amp;nbsp;%, Gujarati (four samples) – 46.1&amp;nbsp;% to 27.5&amp;nbsp;%, Pathan – 44.6&amp;nbsp;%, Burusho – 42.5&amp;nbsp;%, Sindhi – 37.7&amp;nbsp;%, Punjabi – 32.6&amp;nbsp;%, Balochi – 32.4&amp;nbsp;%, Brahui – 30.2&amp;nbsp;%, Lodhi – 29.3&amp;nbsp;%, Bengali – 24.6&amp;nbsp;%, Vishwabhramin – 20.4&amp;nbsp;%, Makrani – 19.2&amp;nbsp;%, Mala – 18.4&amp;nbsp;%, Kusunda – 8.9&amp;nbsp;%, Kharia – 6.5&amp;nbsp;%.&quot;}} Reich et al. stated that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-Aryan speakers”.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}<br /> <br /> ==Austroasiatic==<br /> {{See also|Austroasiatic languages|Munda peoples|Khasi people}}<br /> <br /> According to Ness, there are three broad theories on the origins of the Austroasiatic speakers, namely northeastern India, central or southern China, or southeast Asia.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}} Multiple researches indicate that the Austroasiatic populations in India are derived from (mostly male dominated) migrations from southeast Asia during the Holocene.{{sfn|van Driem|2007}}{{sfn|Chaubey|2011}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot; /&gt;{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;!--** START OF NOTE **--&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;ASI-AAA&quot;|Nevertheless, according to Basu et al. (2016), the AAA were early settlers in India, related to the ASI: &quot;The absence of significant resemblance with any of the neighboring populations is indicative of the ASI and the AAA being early settlers in India, possibly arriving on the “southern exit” wave out of Africa. Differentiation between the ASI and the AAA possibly took place after their arrival in India (ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population in SI Appendix, Fig. S2).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}}}}&lt;!--** END OF NOTE **--&gt; According to Van Driem (2007), <br /> {{quote|...the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.{{sfn|van Driem|2007|p=7}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey et al. (2011), &quot;AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;{{sfn|Chaubey|2011}}{{refn|group=note|See also:&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | work = Dienekes Anthropology Blog | url = http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html | title = Origin of Indian Austroasiatic speakers | date = 27 October 2010 }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | year = 2010 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/#.UQfBCVQR-Sp | title = Sons of the conquerors: the story of India? }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2013 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ | title = Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India}} }} According to Zhang et al. (2015), Austroasiatic (male) migrations from southeast Asia into India took place after the lates Glacial maximum, circa 10,000 years ago.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Arunkumar et al. (2015), Y-chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, which is typical for Austrosiatic speaking peoples, clearly decreases from Laos to east India, with &quot;a serial decrease in expansion time from east to west,&quot; namely &quot;5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India.&quot; This suggests &quot;a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first = Miguel | last = Vilar | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2015 | url = http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ | title = DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India | work = National Geographic }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Riccio et al. (2011), the Munda people are likely descended from Austroasiatic migrants from southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Riccio ME, Nunes JM, Rahal M, Kervaire B, Tiercy JM, Sanchez-Mazas A | title = The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study | journal = Human Biology | volume = 83 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–35 | date = June 2011 | pmid = 21740156 | doi = 10.3378/027.083.0306 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Alejandro | last1 = Gutman | first2 = Beatriz | last2 = Avanzati | name-list-format = vanc | work = The Language Gulper | url = http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Austroasiatic.html | title = Austroasiatic Languages }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Ness, the Khasi probably migrated into India in the first millennium BCE.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}}<br /> <br /> According to a genetic research (2015) including linguistic analyses, suggests an [[East Asia|East Asian]] origin for proto-Austroasiatic groups, which first migrated to Southeast Asia and later into India.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}<br /> <br /> ==Tibeto-Burmese==<br /> {{Main|Tibeto-Burman languages}}<br /> <br /> According to Cordaux et al. (2004), the Tibeto-Burmans possibly came from the Himalayan and north-eastern borders of the subcontinent within the past 4,200 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Weiss G, Saha N, Stoneking M | title = The northeast Indian passageway: a barrier or corridor for human migrations? | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 21 | issue = 8 | pages = 1525–33 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15128876 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msh151 | url = http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/8/1525 | access-date = 25 November 2008 | quote = ... Our coalescence analysis suggests that the expansion of Tibeto-Burman speakers to northeast India most likely took place within the past 4,200 years ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A wide variety of Tibeto-Burman languages are spoken on the southern slopes of the Himalayas. Sizable groups that have been identified are the [[West Himalayish languages]] of [[Himachal Pradesh]] and western Nepal, the [[Tamangic languages]] of western Nepal, including [[Tamang language|Tamang]] with one million speakers, and the [[Kiranti languages]] of eastern Nepal. The remaining groups are small, with several isolates.<br /> <br /> The [[Newar language]] (Nepal Bhasa) of central Nepal has a million speakers and a literature dating from the 12th century, and nearly a million people speak [[Magaric languages]], but the rest have small speech communities. Other isolates and small groups in Nepal are [[Dura language|Dura]], [[Raji–Raute languages|Raji–Raute]], [[Chepangic languages|Chepangic]] and [[Dhimal languages|Dhimalish]]. [[Lepcha language|Lepcha]] is spoken in an area from eastern Nepal to western Bhutan.{{sfnp|van Driem|2007|p=296}} Most of the languages of Bhutan are Bodish, but it also has three small isolates, [['Ole language|'Ole]] (&quot;Black Mountain Monpa&quot;), [[Lhokpu language|Lhokpu]] and [[Gongduk language|Gongduk]] and a larger community of speakers of [[Tshangla language|Tshangla]].{{sfnp|van Driem|2011}}<br /> <br /> ==Crossovers in languages and ethnicity==<br /> {{See also|Adivasi}}<br /> <br /> One complication in studying various population groups is that ethnic origins and linguistic affiliations in India match only inexactly: while the [[Kurukh people|Oraon]] [[adivasi]]s are classified as an &quot;Austric&quot; group, their language, called [[Kurukh language|Kurukh]], is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Bilingual Education | first1 = Jim | last1 = Cummins | first2 = David | last2 = Corson | name-list-format = vanc | year=1999 | access-date=25 November 2008 | isbn=978-0792348061 | publisher=Springer | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=x1aw6j7xHpwC | quote=... over one million speakers each: Bhili (Indo-Aryan) 4.5 million; Santali (Austric) 4.2 m; Gondi (Dravidian) 2.0 m; and Kurukh (Dravidian) 1.3 million ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Nicobarese are considered to be a Mongoloid group,&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Khongsdier R, Mukherjee N | title = Growth and nutritional status of Khasi boys in Northeast India relating to exogamous marriages and socioeconomic classes | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 122 | issue = 2 | pages = 162–70 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 12949836 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.10305 | url = http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | access-date = 25 November 2008 | url-status = dead | quote = ... The Khasis are one of the Indo-Mongoloid tribes in Northeast India. They speak the Monkhmer language, which belongs to the Austro-Asiatic group (Das, 1978) ... | archive-url = https://archive.today/20130105170233/http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | archive-date = 5 January 2013 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Tribal Development in India: The Contemporary Debate | first = Govinda Chandra | last = Rath | name-list-format = vanc | year=2006 | access-date=25 November 2008 | isbn=978-0761934233 | publisher=SAGE | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=BxDKhOnWwOsC | quote=... The Car Nicobarese are of Mongoloid stock ... The Nicobarese speak different languages of the Nicobarese group, which belongs to an Austro-Asiatic language sub-family ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; and the [[Munda people|Munda]] and [[Santals]] [[Adivasi]] are &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=The Sacred Complex of Munda Tribe | first = Malini | last = Srivastava | name-list-format = vanc | journal=Anthropologist | volume = 9 | issue = 4 | pages = 327–330 | year=2007 | access-date=25 November 2008 | url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T-Anth/Anth-09-0-000-000-2007-Web/Anth-09-4-000-07-Abst-PDF/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M-Tt.pdf | quote=... Racially, they are proto-australoid and speak Mundari dialect of Austro-Asiatic ...| doi = 10.1080/09720073.2007.11891020 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;chaudhuri1993&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=State Formation Among Tribals: A Quest for Santal Identity | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1993 | access-date=25 November 2008 | isbn=978-8121204224 | publisher=Gyan Publishing House | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=rhMXAAAAIAAJ | quote=... The Santal is a large Proto-Australoid tribe found in West Bengal, northern Orissa, Bihar, Assam as also in Bangladesh ... The solidarity having been broken, the Santals are gradually adopting languages of the areas inhabited, like Oriya in Orissa, Hindi in Bihar and Bengali in West Bengal and Bangladesh ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;culshaw1949&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Tribal Heritage: A Study of the Santals | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1949 | access-date=25 November 2008 | publisher=Lutterworth Press | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=PpFCAAAAIAAJ | quote=''... The Santals belong to his second &quot;main race&quot;, the Proto-Australoid, which he considers arrived in India soon after the Negritos ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; but all four speak Austro-Asiatic languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot; /&gt; The [[Bhil]]s and [[Gondi people|Gonds]] [[Adivasi]] are frequently classified as &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;shankarkumar2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |title=A Correlative Study of HLA, Sickle Cell Gene and G6PD Deficiency with Splenomegaly and Malaria Incidence Among Bhils and Pawra Tribes from Dhadgon, Dhule, Maharastra | vauthors = Shankarkumar U |journal=Studies of Tribes and Tribals |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=91–94 |date=2003 |access-date=25 November 2008 |url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T%20&amp;%20T/T%20&amp;%20T-01-0-000-000-2003-Web/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-174-2003-Abst-PDF/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar.pdf |quote=... The Bhils are one of the largest tribes concentrated mainly in Western Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Eastern Gujarat and Northern Maharastra. Racially they were classified as Gondids, Malids or Proto-Australoid, but their social history is still a mystery (Bhatia and Rao, 1986) ...| doi=10.1080/0972639X.2003.11886488 }}&lt;/ref&gt; yet [[Bhil languages]] are [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]] and the [[Gondi language]] is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{col div|colwidth=30em}}<br /> * [[Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia]]<br /> * [[Early Indians]]<br /> * [[Early human migrations]]<br /> * [[Andamanese]]<br /> * [[Irulas]]<br /> * [[Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis]]<br /> {{colend}}<br /> <br /> == Notes ==<br /> {{reflist|group=note|2}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{reflist|2}}<br /> <br /> == Sources ==<br /> ;Printed sources<br /> {{refbegin|35em}}<br /> &lt;!-- A --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Andronov |first=Mikhail Sergeevich | name-list-format = vanc |title=A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian Languages |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vhB60gYvnLgC&amp;pg=PA299 |year=2003 |publisher=Otto Harrassowitz Verlag |isbn=978-3-447-04455-4 |ref=harv }}<br /> * {{cite book | last=Anthony | first=David W. | name-list-format = vanc | year=2007 | title=The Horse The Wheel And Language. How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped The Modern World | publisher=Princeton University Press }}<br /> * {{cite journal |last=Appenzeller |first=Tim | name-list-format = vanc |year=2012 |title=Human migrations: Eastern odyssey. Humans had spread across Asia by 50,000 years ago. Everything else about our original exodus from Africa is up for debate. |journal=Nature |volume=485 |issue=7396 |url=http://www.nature.com/news/human-migrations-eastern-odyssey-1.10560|ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Wei LH, Kavitha VJ, Syama A, Arun VS, Sathua S, Sahoo R, Balakrishnan R, Riba T, Chakravarthy J, Chaudhury B | collaboration = The Genographic Consortium | year =2015 | title =A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west | journal =Journal of Systematics and Evolution |volume=53 |issue=6 |pages=546–560 | doi =10.1111/jse.12147| url =https://semanticscholar.org/paper/cb2c767a6f58bc2cf853fbf57ac38f1c5388cc32 |ref={{harvid|Arunkumar|2015}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- B --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | ref = {{sfnref|Basu et al.|2016}} | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Beckwith |first=Christopher I.| name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Christopher I. Beckwith |title=Empires of the Silk Road: A History of Central Eurasia from the Bronze Age to the Present |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=-Ue8BxLEMt4C |date=16 March 2009 |publisher=[[Princeton University Press]] |isbn=978-1-4008-2994-1 |access-date=30 December 2014 |ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite book | last=Bryant | first=Edwin | name-list-format = vanc | author-link=Edwin Bryant (author) | year=2001 | title=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate | publisher=Oxford University Press | isbn=978-0-19-513777-4 | title-link=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture }}.<br /> &lt;!-- C --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last1 =Cavalli-Sforza | first1 =Luigi Luca | last2 =Menozzi | first2 =Paolo | last3 =Piazza | first3 =Alberto | name-list-format = vanc | year =1994 | title =The History and Geography of Human Genes | publisher =Princeton University Press|ref={{harvid|Cavalli-Sforza|1994}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Choi Y, Mägi R, Romero IG, Soares P, van Oven M, Behar DM, Rootsi S, Hudjashov G, Mallick CB, Karmin M, Nelis M, Parik J, Reddy AG, Metspalu E, van Driem G, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C, Thangaraj K, Singh L, Remm M, Richards MB, Lahr MM, Kayser M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Population genetic structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: the role of landscape barriers and sex-specific admixture | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 28 | issue = 2 | pages = 1013–24 | date = February 2011 | pmid = 20978040 | pmc = 3355372 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq288 |ref={{harvid|Chaubey|2011}} }}<br /> * {{cite book | last1 =Coningham | first1 =Robin | last2 =Young | first2 =Ruth | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Archaeology of South Asia: From the Indus to Asoka, c.6500 BCE–200 CE | publisher =Cambridge University Press|ref=harv}}<br /> &lt;!-- D --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Bahmanimehr A, Denisova G, Perkova M, Farjadian S, Yepiskoposyan L | title = Complete mitochondrial DNA diversity in Iranians | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 8 | issue = 11 | pages = e80673 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24244704 | pmc = 3828245 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0080673 | bibcode = 2013PLoSO...880673D|ref={{harvid|Derenko|2013}} }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | chapter = South Asia and the Middle East | title = Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages | editor-last = Moseley | editor-first = Christopher | publisher = Routledge | year = 2007 | isbn = 978-0-7007-1197-0 | pages = 283–347|ref=harv }}<br /> * {{cite web | last =van Driem | first =George L. | name-list-format = vanc | year =2007b | title =Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies | url =http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf}}<br /> * {{cite journal | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | title = Tibeto-Burman subgroups and historical grammar | journal = Himalayan Linguistics Journal | volume = 10 | issue = 1 | year = 2011 | pages = 31–39 | url = http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | url-status = dead | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20120112220623/http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | archive-date = 12 January 2012 | df = dmy-all|ref=harv }}<br /> &lt;!-- J --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation | last1=Jones | first1=Eppie R. | year=2016 | title=Upper Palaeolithic genomes reveal deep roots of modern Eurasians |journal=Nature Communications |volume=6 |pages=8912 | doi=10.1038/ncomms9912 | pmid=26567969 | pmc=4660371|bibcode=2015NatCo...6E8912J }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Bamshad MJ, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Reidla M, Laos S, Parik J, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Papiha SS, Mastana SS, Mir MR, Ferak V, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Deep common ancestry of indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 9 | issue = 22 | pages = 1331–4 | date = November 1999 | pmid = 10574762 | doi = 10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 | url = http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | url-status = dead | df = dmy-all | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20051030014804/http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | archive-date = 30 October 2005 |ref={{harvid|Kivisild et al.|1999}} }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Kuz'mina |first=Elena Efimovna | name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Elena Efimovna Kuzmina |editor=J. P. Mallory |editor-link=J. P. Mallory |title=The Origin of the Indo-Iranians |publisher=Brill |year=2007 |isbn=978-90-04-16054-5|ref=harv}}<br /> &lt;!-- L --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation|last=Lazaridis |display-authors=etal|year =2016 | title =The genetic structure of the world's first farmers | | journal =Nature | series =Supplementary Information | volume =536 | issue =7617 | pages =419–424 | bibcode =2016Natur.536..419L | doi =10.1038/nature19310 | pmc =5003663 | pmid =27459054 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2016/06/16/059311.DC1/059311-1.pdf |ref={{harvid|Lazaridis et al.|2016}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Manickham |first=Sandra Khor| name-list-format = vanc |editor-last = Hägerdal | editor-first = Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 | ref = {{sfnref|Metspalu et al.|2011}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | ref = {{sfnref|Moorjani et al.|2013}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | name-list-format = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | journal =bioRxiv | pages =292581 | url =https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 }}<br /> * {{Citation | last =Narasimhan |display-authors=etal | title =The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =|ref=harv}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Palanichamy MG, Mitra B, Zhang CL, Debnath M, Li GM, Wang HW, Agrawal S, Chaudhuri TK, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = West Eurasian mtDNA lineages in India: an insight into the spread of the Dravidian language and the origins of the caste system | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 134 | issue = 6 | pages = 637–47 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25832481 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-015-1547-4 |ref={{harvid|Palanichamy|2015}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037|ref=harv }}<br /> &lt;!-- R --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last = Ruhlen | first = Merritt | authorlink = Merritt Ruhlen | name-list-format = vanc | title = A Guide to the World's Languages: Classification | publisher = Stanford University Press | year = 1991 | isbn = 978-0-8047-1894-3 }}<br /> * {{cite web | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2010 | title =A Dravidian solution to the Indus script problem | publisher =World Classical Tamil Conference | url = http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/00133/_A_Dravidian_Soluti_133901a.pdf }}<br /> * {{cite book | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Roots of Hinduism. The Early Arians and the Indus Civilization | publisher =Oxford University Press|ref=harv}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | url = https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R | ref = {{sfnref|Reich et al.|2009}}}}<br /> &lt;!-- S --&gt;<br /> * {{Citation | last =da Silva |display-authors=etal | year =2017 | title =A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals | journal =BMC Evolutionary Biology volume 17, Article number: 88 (2017) | url =https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9}}<br /> * {{Citation | last =Shinde |display-authors=etal | year =2019 | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10 | pmid = 31495572 | pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}<br /> &lt;!-- V --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x | url = http://repository.ias.ac.in/21333/1/328.pdf |ref={{harvid|Vishwanathan|2004}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | year =2002 | publisher =Princeton University Press | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | year =2012 | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | publisher =Random House Publishing Group | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * {{cite book | last=Witzel | first=Michael | name-list-format = vanc | year=2005 | chapter=Indocentrism | editor-last1=Bryant | editor-first1=Edwin | editor-last2=Patton | editor-first2=Laurie L. | title=TheE Indo-Aryan Controversy. Evidence and inference in Indian history | publisher=Routledge | chapter-url=https://archive.org/details/EdwinBryantLauriePattonIndoAryanControversyEvidenceAndInferenceInIndianHistoryRoutledge2005|ref=harv}}<br /> &lt;!-- Z --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Zhang X, Liao S, Qi X, Liu J, Kampuansai J, Zhang H, Yang Z, Serey B, Sovannary T, Bunnath L, Seang Aun H, Samnom H, Kangwanpong D, Shi H, Su B | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro-Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent | journal = Scientific Reports | volume = 5 | pages = 15486 | date = October 2015 | pmid = 26482917 | pmc = 4611482 | doi = 10.1038/srep15486 | bibcode = 2015NatSR...515486Z |ref={{harvid|Zhang|2015}} }}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> ;Web-sources<br /> {{reflist|group=web}}<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> * {{Citation | last =Joseph | first =Tony | year =2018 | title =Early Indians: The Story of Our Ancestors and Where We Came From | publisher =Juggernaut|ref=none}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> ;Overview<br /> * Akhilesh Pillalamarri, ''Where Did Indians Come from'', [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/unraveled-where-indians-come-from-part-1/ part1], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-indians-come-from-part-2-dravidians-and-aryans/ part 2], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-did-indians-come-from-part-3-what-is-caste/ part 3]<br /> <br /> ;Genetics<br /> * Tony Joseph (16 June 2017), [http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-genetics-is-settling-the-aryan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece ''How genetics is settling the Aryan migration debate''], The Hindu<br /> * Tony Joseph (2018), [https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/genomic-study-vedic-aryan-migration-dravidian-languages-sanskrit ''How We, The Indians, Came to Be''] (summary of Narasimhan (2018)<br /> * Scroll.in, {{cite web|url=https://scroll.in/article/874102/aryan-migration-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-study-on-indian-genetics|title=Aryan migration: Everything you need to know about the new study on Indian genetics}}, on Narasimhan (2018)<br /> * The Economic Times (12 October 2019), [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/steppe-migration-to-india-was-between-3500-4000-years-ago-david-reich/articleshow/71556277.cms?from=mdr Steppe migration to India was between 3500-4000 years ago: David Reich]<br /> <br /> ;Negritos<br /> * [https://thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com/tag/negrito/ thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com, ''Negrito'']<br /> <br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:History of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Peopling of the world|India]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=940558033 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-02-13T06:41:26Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Chronological order of info */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=C|importance=low|assess-date=February 2020}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} He seems to be back and evading ban. <br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.66}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.42}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.50}} <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> <br /> I think he is IP hopping? [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{re|Ilber8000}} I've blocked the range. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:56, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} he seems to be back again and IP hopping, similar vandalism. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 05:17, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> * {{Checkip|1=81.10.217.91}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=117.254.65.252}}<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. 2019==<br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below:<br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;If one of these population fits, it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that poten-tially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Ah, I see it now. Thank you. [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 16:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Chronological order of info ==<br /> <br /> * I've moved the ANI_ASI downwards, to create a more chronological order. Some of it's info could be moved further to other places.<br /> * This section, by the way, contains a lot of doublures. <br /> * The Iranian neolithic farmer hypothesis has to be adjusted, given Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> * The Holocene section is now very short, but can serve as an introductory overview. Da Silva et al. (2017), [https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 ''A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals''] should be mentioned; they argue for various post-glacial, pre-farmer migrations into South Asia. This collaborates the early date of western Eurasian ancestry in South Asia, found by Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> I'm a bit in a hurry now, but I'll work on this further. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:31, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> : {{ping|Joshua Jonathan}} Thank you, the Negrito section and [[Andamanese people]] page also needs some clean up. It's all repetition. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 22:30, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> ::Done. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:57, 1 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> LGM section: Silva et al (2018) study claims mtdna N1a1b1 arrived from Near East during 21 ybp and further Near Eastern mtdna clades W4, HV + 16311!, HV12b,I1, U7a and J1b1b1 spread to South Asia in the Late Glacial period, 16–13 ka (4.5% of west eurasian mtdna in their dataset). But, they're data-set includes Baloch &amp; Jewish Indians who are medieval migrants, and they point out they carry near eastern ancestry but (in contrast) the study says South Asians do not carry Near Eastern ancestry ''&quot;However, this component is virtually absent in other South Asians (including Muslims) except for Jewish groups&quot;''. They don't specify which South Asian group carries this N1a1b1 mtdna for some reason, which would be very helpful. I'll remove this for time being considering Shinde et al gives 13kya as arrival time frame for west eurasian ancestry based on aDNA. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 06:41, 13 February 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Indo-Aryan_migrations&diff=940555155 Talk:Indo-Aryan migrations 2020-02-13T06:04:47Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Shinde et al. (2019) */</p> <hr /> <div>{{talk header |search=yes }}<br /> {{Auto archiving notice |bot=Lowercase sigmabot III |age=30 |units=days |dounreplied=yes}}<br /> {{WikiProjectBannerShell |1= <br /> {{WikiProject India|class=b|importance=mid|history=yes|pre=yes|history-importance=high|assess-date=May 2012}}<br /> {{WikiProject Central Asia| ... | class=B | importance=mid |}}<br /> }}<br /> {{tmbox | text =See also [[Wikipedia:Genetic research on the origins of India's population]]}}<br /> {{User:MiszaBot/config<br /> |archiveheader = {{aan}}<br /> |maxarchivesize = 200K<br /> |counter = 10<br /> |minthreadsleft = 5<br /> |algo = old(30d)<br /> |archive = Talk:Indo-Aryan migration/Archive %(counter)d<br /> }}<br /> <br /> == Ancient DNA study of skeletal remains of IVC. ==<br /> <br /> https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/harappan-site-of-rakhigarhi-dna-study-finds-no-central-asian-trace-junks-aryan-invasion-theory/articleshow/64565413.cms &lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;&lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rioter 1|Rioter 1]] ([[User talk:Rioter 1#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rioter 1|contribs]]) 06:20, 13 June 2018 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> :Desperate and confused. Razib Khan, [https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/06/12/no-steppe-ancestry-in-the-the-rakhigarhi-samples-non-sequitur/ ''No steppe ancestry in the the Rakhigarhi samples = non sequitur'']:<br /> :{{talkquote|I haven’t heard anything definitive, but this is what I have heard: that the genetics they could analyze indicates continuity, but none of the steppe element ubiquitous in modern North India (and that there was contamination in the Korean lab). The Rakhigarhi samples date to 2500 to 2250 BC last I checked. That means they shouldn’t have any steppe ancestry if the model of the relatively late demographic impact of Indo-Aryans after 2000 BC is correct.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Basically, the whole article is kind of a non sequitur. I do understand that many archaeologists think there was continuity culturally. And there could have been. But taking into account the genetics of the modern region of India where Rakhigarhi is located, there was a major demographic perturbation after 2250 BC.}}<br /> :And Lhendup G. Bhutia, [http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/science/the-genetic-history-of-indians-are-we-what-we-think-we-are ''The Genetic History of Indians: Are We What We Think We Are?''], OPEN, 20 April 2018:<br /> :{{talkquote|“I KNOW PEOPLE won’t be happy to hear this,” geneticist Niraj Rai says over the phone from Lucknow. “But I don’t think we can refute it anymore. A migration into [ancient] India did happen.” As head of the Ancient DNA Lab at Lucknow’s Birbal Sahni Institute of Palaeosciences (BSIP), he earlier worked at the CCMB in Hyderabad and has been part of several studies that employed genetics to examine lineages. “It is clear now more than ever before,” he says, “that people from Central Asia came here and mingled with [local residents]. Most of us, in varying degrees, are all descendants of those people.”}}<br /> :&quot;Rai is part of a new global study&quot; - that is, Narasimhan et al. 2018, [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 ''The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia''], mentioned in a previous tread.<br /> :And Rohan Venkataramakrishnan, [https://scroll.in/article/882497/do-rakhigarhi-dna-findings-debunk-the-aryan-invasion-theory-or-give-it-more-credence ''Do Rakhigarhi DNA findings debunk the Aryan invasion theory or give it more credence? A confusing news report draws conclusions that seem to contradict the findings of the study on the Indus Valley Civilisation.''], Scroll.in:<br /> :{{talkquote|Who were the people of the Indus Valley Civilisation? This hotly debated question is likely to be answered in one of the most anticipated scholarly studies of the last few years and, if [http://www.caravanmagazine.in/vantage/indus-valley-genetic-contribution-steppes-rakhigarhi recent reports] are anything to go by, the results of that research paper will be made public soon. On Wednesday, an Economic Times report put out a preview of those results based on comments by one of the authors, but drew conclusions that left experts scratching their heads, because they seemed to contradict the findings mentioned in the report.}}<br /> :That &quot;recent report&quot; is Hartosh Singh Ball, [http://www.caravanmagazine.in/vantage/indus-valley-genetic-contribution-steppes-rakhigarhi ''Indus Valley people did not have genetic contribution from the steppes: Head of Ancient DNA Lab testing Rakhigarhi samples]], The Caravan, quoting Rai:<br /> :{{talkquote|Rai said that he and his team at the BSIP agreed to be a part of the March 2018 paper “after two years of intense discussion and analysis of our own data sets.” He continued, “There is no question of the model being flawed. It is a most solid piece of work—no new study will overturn it. Our own work which will be out very soon provides solid evidence for the model.” [...]&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The work by Rai and his team will provide direct evidence for the model proposed by the March 2018 paper from the Reich Lab, which has bearing on a number of questions of great interest pertaining to the Indian past. The preprint states, “Our results also shed light on the question of the origins of the subset of Indo-European languages spoken in India and Europe. It is striking that the great majority of Indo-European speakers today living in both Europe and South Asia harbor large fractions of ancestry related to … Steppe pastoralists … suggesting that ‘Late Proto-Indo-European’—the language ancestral to all modern Indo- European languages—was the language” of the steppe pastoralist population.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In other words, the preprint observes that the migration from the steppes to South Asia was the source of the Indo-European languages in the subcontinent. Commenting on this, Rai said, “any model of migration of Indo-Europeans from South Asia simply cannot fit the data that is now available.”}}<br /> :Same article:<br /> :{{talkquote|This story makes ZERO sense. The 'Aryan' migration theory says that this migration happened AFTER the Indus Civilization and, therefore, there will be NO Steppe-related genetic presence in sites like Rakhigarhi - which is exactly what is found! [...] — Tony Joseph (@tjoseph0010) June 13, 2018&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;this confirms what i reported, harappan dna has no steppes DNA. the conclusion the article draws from it is idiotic. If Rakhigarhi has no steppes DNA while most of us today have some steppes DNA then somebody came here in some numbers from the steppes. [...] — Hartosh Singh Bal (@HartoshSinghBal) June 13, 2018}}<br /> :With other words: the article in the Economic Times is bullshit, drawing conclusions which are not supported by the studies to which Rai contributes, nor taking into account the statements he made on these studies. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:17, 26 June 2018 (UTC) / update [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:19, 26 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Yup, bullshit is exactly what it is. It was spin taken too far, so badly and so poorly that it is entirely embarrassing. I have no idea how these scientists will be able to hold their heads up any more. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:34, 26 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::[https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/amp/we-are-all-harappans/300463 We are all Harappans, Outlook Coverstory 2 Aug 2018]-[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 05:03, 4 August 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::Is this paper important here?: [https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0192299 Archaeological and anthropological studies on the Harappan cemetery of Rakhigarhi, India] -[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 07:47, 4 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::New coverage<br /> :::* [https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20180910-rakhigarhi-dna-study-findings-indus-valley-civilisation-1327247-2018-08-31 4500-year-old DNA from Rakhigarhi reveals evidence that will unsettle Hindutva nationalists]<br /> :::* [https://theprint.in/talk-point/does-rakhigarhi-skeleton-dna-confirm-dravidian-ancestry-or-reignite-aryan-invasion-debate/110576/ Does Rakhigarhi skeleton DNA confirm Dravidian ancestry or reignite Aryan invasion debate?]<br /> ::: Rakhigarhi DNA.-[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 07:39, 4 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thanks! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:09, 4 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} see [https://indo-european.eu/2018/09/evolution-of-steppe-neolithic-and-siberian-ancestry-in-eurasia-isba-8-19th-sep/#reich Central Asia and Indo-Iranian] and [https://twitter.com/samleggs22/status/1042344611598028800/photo/1 We were wrong]: wrong about what?!? I recall Shinde stating somewhere that ASI first formed, and that ANI formed out of ASI + steppe-people. Which is different fro what Narasimhan stated: ASI is AASI + Iranian farmers. Are Reich c.s. now suggesting that the Iranian component came from the BMAC? If so, does this mean that the Harappans were mainly indigenous? That would be very welcome for some indigenists, and yet, would also be a great twist to Aryanism! Do you recall where Shinde explained his take on ASI and ANI? See also Razib Kahn [https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/guest-column/story/20180910-3-strands-of-ancestry-1328485-2018-08-31 august 31, 2018] and [http://www.razib.com/wordpress/?cat=110 september 26, 2018] (I have to read it, yet). [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:42, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> : The obvious candidate for &quot;wrong&quot; is the claim that there was no BMAC ancestry in South Asia. We discussed that somewhere else. I recall saying that, if that were the case, it would enormously complicate the picture. &quot;Where did Indra come from?&quot; <br /> : About IVC being &quot;Iranian&quot; (or &quot;Mesopotamian&quot; in my terminology), I have an open mind. It doesn't matter particularly where they came from, as far as we are concerned. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:55, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> :: There is a [https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26036&amp;d=1537350610 slide] &lt;s&gt;here, labelled &quot;We were wrong&quot;. (You need to register, if you haven't already.) It&lt;/s&gt; doesn't say anything new. It appears that the &quot;Null hypothesis&quot; that assumed that the ASI didn't have West Eurasian ancestry was wrong. I have no idea what &quot;West Eurasian&quot; means here. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 16:43, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> :: The whole drama has now shifted to the BMAC, from my point of view. What exactly happened there?<br /> :: {{talkquote|The study arrived at these conclusions after detecting the signals of the migration in the ancient DNA. To quote: “Outlier analysis shows no evidence of Steppe pastoralist ancestry in groups surrounding BMAC sites prior to 2,100 BCE, but suggests that between 2,100-1,700 BCE, the BMAC communities were surrounded by peoples carrying such ancestry.”[https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/genomic-study-vedic-aryan-migration-dravidian-languages-sanskrit]}}<br /> :: The Indo-Aryans destroyed the ''puras'' of these people, but didn't mix with them? Were they the ''Dasas'' that hoarded wealth? -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:01, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::It could be that Reich means that their initial ANI-ASI hypothesis was wrong in the way they envisioned the constituent parts of ANI-ASI. I'll have to check their publications... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 18:09, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> :::: A [[null hypothesis]] turning out to be wrong happens quite frequently. And, scientists advertise it too, to generate excitement about their results. The effect it had on the lady is exactly what is intended. But we know better. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 21:59, 30 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> {{collapse top|[[WP:FORUM]]}}<br /> I read your links and I have to say that none of you are making any sense here. You're not judging based on evidence, you're judging based upon nonsense that linguists -- who have no understanding of history (I've even checked their videos in South Asian studies) and whose books are based on old colonial theories that never had any degree of weight on them beyond a desire for racial supremacy against Blacks and Jews -- are now trying to desperately support a theory that has been debunked over and over and over. This is what, the 120th debunking since 2014? I don't understand this desperation to believe in the Aryan Migration Theory, nothing in history supports it and none of these Western indologists (who have only linguistic and philosophy degrees without any real understanding of history) claim this theory is true. <br /> <br /> I checked your links and your own links prove the &quot;Junks Aryan race theory&quot; is right. <br /> <br /> From: https://theprint.in/talk-point/does-rakhigarhi-skeleton-dna-confirm-dravidian-ancestry-or-reignite-aryan-invasion-debate/110576/<br /> <br /> His first paragraph: &quot;It is too premature to associate the Rakhigarhi findings to either Dravidian or Aryan ancestry. '''There is nothing called Aryan DNA or Dravidian DNA for that matter. As an anthropologist, I can say that anthropology has not been able to establish a skeletal feature that is Aryan or Dravidian in nature.''' The two are only language groups, not races.&quot;<br /> <br /> Your very wiki purports that this is an &quot;ethnolinguistic&quot; debate. Are Aryans and Dravidains defined by ethnicity or not? Your counter proof is admitting it is not. <br /> <br /> Your other link: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0192299<br /> <br /> States there was differences in burial based upon evidence of leprosy in bodies. Nothing about Aryan invasions, nothing showing evidence for any Aryan invasion. <br /> <br /> This link:<br /> <br /> https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20180910-rakhigarhi-dna-study-findings-indus-valley-civilisation-1327247-2018-08-31<br /> <br /> Rai claimed with full confidence it would be there to prove the Aryan Invasion theory. He repeatedly said it would be there, because if not then there could never have been an invasion or migration. Why? Because the lack of gene intermixing and lack of smashed architecture would be counter proof of the opposite. Now, he's admitting it's not there and that this so-called migration, which should have evidence in the burials, no longer makes sense. Did everyone just up and leave the same vicinity and head north to get massacred by supposed invaders? Does that make sense? Where is the evidence that this migration or invasion ever took place? If it's not there, then Hindutva's arguments are being proven correct. It isn't deception, their is no evidence for the invasion which supports their argument. <br /> <br /> None of you seem to be using logic and reason here, you seem to just be badmouthing Hindutva for the crime of being Center-Left instead of the Marxist-Left of the Indian Congress Party. I don't know why people are calling the BJP right wing, evidently putting the death penalty on Hindu extremists, supporting women's rights, supporting a successful vaccine campaign, and supporting eco-friendly solutions like planting trees is &quot;right-wing&quot; in Modern Western discourse while everybody praises Saudi Arabia's &quot;reforms&quot; as they bomb Yemen to death or ignore Asia Bibi's suffering as Pakistan tries to find excuse after excuse to lynch her even after she's been proven innocent of a blasphemy charge. <br /> <br /> And by the way, I have read some of Western Indology's writings. All they do is make-up guesswork without any archaeology, history, and they don't even use logical fallacies to counter other arguments. Their basis of argument is Edward Said's claim that former Colonized nation-states have no right to an opinion because they were colonized. It's in the introductory of a book I took the time to review. Western Indology's arguments is literal make-believe without any verified evidence. Here's my review and examination of the contents of one such author as proof, which I took the time to review and by the way, I was firmly in Western Indology's camp until reading their actual arguments. They're so bad and have no basis or foundation in history, that it makes no sense to defend them. https://jarinjove.com/2018/07/06/unifying-hinduism-errors-in-reasoning/ and here's my examination of the Oxford Book of Indian philosophy, it's amazing how many lies are in it. The racial aspect of the Aryan race theory was debunked in 2014, yet they use a Nazi conspiracy theory and celebrate it: https://jarinjove.com/2018/06/24/indology-is-a-worthless-academic-discipline/ [[User:Superfriend223|Superfriend223]] ([[User talk:Superfriend223|talk]]) 13:26, 11 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> Some more reporst on this study:<br /> * [https://www.economist.com/asia/2018/04/05/a-new-study-squelches-a-treasured-theory-about-indians-origins ''A new study squelches a treasured theory about Indians’ origins. The Aryans did not come from India; they conquered it'']<br /> * [https://scroll.in/article/874102/aryan-migration-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-study-on-indian-genetics ''Aryan migration: Everything you need to know about the new study on Indian genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:57, 13 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> * [https://www.newslaundry.com/2018/10/10/sensationalism-trumps-science Rakhigarhi: When sensationalism trumps science] Good read on other coverage.-[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 17:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|[[WP:NOTAFORUM]]}}<br /> ::Joshua repeatedly cites EARLIER articles than the Niraj Rai article which found no DNA trace as proof that it is wrong, most of Jonathon's &quot;proof&quot; is news articles which are mainly speculation and not an honest attempt at discerning the truth. Given the fact that there has been no credible challenge and most articles arguing against the Niraj Rai's genetic findings, it seems clear that the Aryan Invasion Theory has no evidence to back it up anymore. Also, many of you seem to have no understanding of what Indologists actually are. If you read the Oxford Handbook of Indian Philosophy, they explain that they're literally just translators who make-up their own personal views about a religion without any evidence. They are not archaeologists, they're not scientists, and they're not historians. Many of them now seem to be denying the Islamic genocide of India ever happened without ever addressing the historic information, of Muslim historians copiously cited, in Will Durant's work Our Oriental Heritage written in 1935. I don't believe any of you seem to understand that Indologists are the least credible people to go to for information about facts because they don't do any research of their own at all. They make-up things as per Hermenutics outside of Legal Hermeneutics philosophy. I don't expect any changes since it seems whatever is said by one-side is seen as far-right bigotry and none of you give a damn about the facts or are willing to change your minds from your preconceived, racist views. Oh, and by the way, the IndiaTV rebuttal makes no sense as Tony Joseph is literally arguing that he believes in the Indo-Aryan invasion because he has no evidence. It seems Joshua Jonathan repeatedly posts news sources that have no scientific value, claim Hindutva is the boogeyman, and uses politically charged language to ridicule other political groups while claiming to be objective with their own political biases. As in typical racist fashion. [[User:Superfriend223|Superfriend223]] ([[User talk:Superfriend223|talk]]) 04:23, 6 July 2019 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == Further confirmation of Narasimhan (2018) ==<br /> <br /> * [http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457 ''Ancient genomes suggest the eastern Pontic-Caspian steppe as the source of western Iron Age nomads''] <br /> * [https://indo-european.eu/2018/10/the-genetic-makings-of-south-asia-ivc-as-proto-dravidian/ ''The genetic makings of South Asia – IVC as Proto-Dravidian'']. Nice maps. <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 07:23, 8 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The first link isn't proof of the Aryan migration theory, it's a claim that Scythians migrated. There's no mention of any Aryan migration, in fact it completely disproves your point, as it claims the people who settled on North-East India seem to be either Scythians or Sarmatians. So... what does that have to do with anything, unless you mean to say that Indo-Aryans are debunked?<br /> <br /> :The second link claims a &quot;possibility&quot; but assumes they simply settled in North-East India according to the evidence and didn't head southward. This neither proves the Aryan Race or Aryan Migration theory and seems to again debunk it. <br /> <br /> :Moreover, your two links contradict each other, so what are you even arguing? You clearly didn't even read them as they directly self-contradict in information given. --[[User:Superfriend223|Superfriend223]] ([[User talk:Superfriend223|talk]]) 15:09, 11 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Indo-Aryan_migration&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=875865506&amp;oldid=873453903 For the record]:<br /> ::* FirstPost, {{cite web|url=https://www.firstpost.com/india/examining-the-evidence-for-aryan-migrations-into-india-the-story-of-our-ancestors-and-where-we-came-from-5797501.html|title=Examining the evidence for ‘Aryan’ migrations into India: The story of our ancestors and where we came from}}<br /> ::* IndianExpress, {{cite web|url=https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/the-long-walk-did-the-aryans-migrate-into-india-new-genetics-study-adds-to-debate/|title=The Long Walk: Did the Aryans migrate into India? New genetics study adds to debate}}<br /> ::* Scroll.in, {{cite web|url=https://scroll.in/article/874102/aryan-migration-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-study-on-indian-genetics|title=Aryan migration: Everything you need to know about the new study on Indian genetics}}<br /> ::Related: <br /> ::* Razib KHan (ja.18, 2018), [https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/01/18/t/ ''The Dravidianization of India'']<br /> ::[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 07:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::These are all echo-chamber articles without any scientific evidence provided. Some of these a blogs, not even news sources. What are you doing, Jonathon? [[User:Superfriend223|Superfriend223]] ([[User talk:Superfriend223|talk]]) 04:25, 6 July 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Narasimhan et. al. was just published in Science (big deal, kudos to the authors) after being peer reviewed, and seems like its primary conclusion underwent some rewording. Two main conclusions relevant to this article:<br /> ::::1. &quot;Early Holocene populations of Iran and South Asia ... [sic] were likely the characteristic of the IVC.&quot;<br /> ::::2. Steppe migrants made up less than 30% of post-IVC ANI population<br /> ::::[[User:Mr. Naik|Mr. Naik]] ([[User talk:Mr. Naik|talk]]) 00:19, 14 November 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Unsourced statement in 1.1 ==<br /> <br /> The last paragraph of 1.1 is unsourced. <br /> <br /> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration#Linguistics:_relationships_between_languages[[User:Viciouspiggy|Viciouspiggy]] ([[User talk:Viciouspiggy|talk]]) 22:51, 20 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> :Anthony (2007) is not a source? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:12, 21 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. (2019)==<br /> <br /> ===Rakighari-paper===<br /> Finally, the [Rakhighari] paper is out. Shinde et al. (2019), [https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(19)30967-5 ''An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers'']. -[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 02:46, 6 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> See also: [https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-09/cp-fad083019.php ''First ancient DNA from Indus Valley civilization links its people to modern South Asians'']. [[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 03:02, 6 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Kautilya3}}, the study is published. Is there any change needed in the article? [[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 08:10, 6 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Wow, for sure! This is big:<br /> :{{talkquote|The Iranian-related ancestry in the IVC derives from a lineage leading to early Iranian farmers, herders, and hunter-gatherers before their ancestors separated, contradicting the hypothesis that the shared ancestry between early Iranians and South Asians reflects a large-scale spread of western Iranian farmers east. Instead, sampled ancient genomes from the Iranian plateau and IVC descend from different groups of hunter-gatherers who began farming without being connected by substantial movement of people.}}<br /> :But.... [https://indianexpress.com/article/india/harappa-civilisation-indus-valley-south-asians-ancestory-iranian-steppe-pastoralists-5972200/ Tony Joseph in IndianExpress]: <br /> :{{talkquote|“It means the West Asian migrants who mixed with the First Indians to form the population that spread agriculture in northwestern India and built the Harappan Civilization were not yet farmers when they came to India. They came before agriculture had begun anywhere in the world,” said Tony Joseph, author of ‘Early Indians’ in a tweet. This is significant in that it explains that farming is likely to have started independently in India through an exchange of ideas rather than a mass migration as such.}}<br /> :See also [http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/09/on-surprising-genetic-origins-of_5.html Eurogenes.blogspot]. <br /> :Anyway: Indo-Aryan migrations, IVC, History of agriculture in India, Elamite theory; quite a number of articles for which this is relevant. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:16, 6 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> :: Once again, I think a big hullabaloo is being raised about a trivial issue. Ancient Iranian DNA exists and it is in fact the &quot;predominant&quot; part of the Rakhigarhi DNA. But it dates from before 10,000 BCE, i.e., before farming started.<br /> :: {{talkquote|This ''does not mean'' that movements of people were unimportant in the introduction of farming economies at a later date; for example, ancient DNA studies have documented that the introduction of farming to Europe after 6500 BCE was mediated by a large-scale expansion of Western Anatolian farmers who descended largely from early hunter-gatherers of Western Anatolia. (p.5)}}<br /> :: In fact, if any Iranian ''farmer'' DNA is to be found, it would be in the vicinity of Mehrgarh. The claims that the South Asians &quot;independently developed&quot; farming is neither demonstrated nor contradicted by the study.<br /> :: But, hopefully, this is the final burial of the &quot;Rigveda in the Sarasvati&quot; theory. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 09:50, 6 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> :: I.e. ''I disagree that this is anything &quot;big&quot; or &quot;surprising&quot;''. The bloggers are unnecessarily misleading. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 10:08, 6 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::[https://www.theweek.in/news/india/2019/09/06/new-study-debunks-aryan-invasion-theory.amp.html The Week] article confuses me. Title says &quot;New DNA study debunks Aryan invasion theory&quot;. [[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 17:28, 6 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Again? ;) Shinde means that the Aryan migrations were not an invasion. And that the Vedic culture which developed in India was carried by a population which mostly descended from the Harappans - but not entirely. Sharma has taken Shinde out of context. But see also [https://fountainink.in/qna/039harappans-are-the-founders-of-indian-culture039 this interview with Shinde]; big sigh... Luckily, there are also [https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20180910-rakhigarhi-dna-study-findings-indus-valley-civilisation-1327247-2018-08-31 authors with a realistic worldview]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 17:41, 6 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::[https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2019/09/05/the-day-of-the-dasa/ Razib Khan's comments], with a link to on [https://scholar.harvard.edu/vagheesh/centralsouthasia Narasimhan (2019)], the formal publication of Narasimhan (2018) in Science. See also this [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190905145348.htm?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Ffossils_ruins%2Farchaeology+%28Archaeology+News+--+ScienceDaily%29 summary in Science], which clearly states (of course) that Vedic culture is related to the Aryans, wbo migrated to India. And responds, in a very polite but nevertheless dismissive way, to Shinde's observation that the Aryan migration left no archaeological traces. -- [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:35, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::: {{U|Nizil Shah}}, it is all spin. The Deccan College people are expert spinners. <br /> ::::: The traditional [[Indigenous Aryans|indigenist]] theory is that the IVC was &quot;Aryan&quot;. The IVC people supposedly woke up one day, started speaking Sanskrit and composing the Vedas. When the Rakhigarhi DNA was first extracted, these people believed that it would be full of ANI genes, thereby debunking the theory that the &quot;Aryans&quot; came from somewhere.<br /> ::::: Now, they found that there were no ANI genes. So, how does Shinde explain the presence of ANI genes in the present day population? By ignoring them. In the recent interviews he makes no mention of ANI at all. Rather he claims that the present day populations are &quot;direct descendants&quot; of the Rakhigarhi people. How? Where? No idea. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 12:43, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::::::{{ping|Kautilya3}}, Shinde told things in the press conference which are neither mentioned in the paper nor supported by the studies. His co-authors do not fully agree with him either. -[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:41, 13 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===new study disproves aryan invasion theory===<br /> please update all sections mentioning aryan invasion or migration as a theory that has been disproven: [https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/dna-analysis-of-rakhigarhi-remains-challenges-aryan-invasion-theory/articleshow/71018198.cms ''genetical study disproves aryan invasion theory'']. &lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;&lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:190.98.51.50|190.98.51.50]] ([[User talk:190.98.51.50#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/190.98.51.50|contribs]]) sept 7, 2019 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;<br /> :Nope. See previous section. This ToI-article cofuse Shinde's personal beliefs with the scientific findings of Reich c.s. The Cell-article does ''not'' claim there waz no Aryan migration. [https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/india-news-the-press-conference-on-rakhigarhi-findings-throws-up-more-questions-than-answers/338052 Shinde's &quot;interpretation&quot;] is embarrassing. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 15:12, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> :: Some sympathy, JJ. If they don't say stuff like that, they will be branded anti-national, and asked to go to Pakistan! -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 15:25, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Guess you're right. Nevertheless, from the ToI-article:<br /> :::{{talkquote|The study explains the spread of Indo-European languages to likely later migrations. &quot;...a natural route for Indo-European languages to have spread into south Asia is from eastern Europe via central Asia in the first half of the 2nd millennium BCE, a chain of transmission that did occur as has been documented in detail with ancient DNA. The fact that Steppe pastoralist ancestry in south Asia matches that in Bronze Age eastern Europe provides additional evidence for this theory, as it elegantly explains the shared distinctive features of Balto-Slavic and Indo-Iranian languages.&quot; The mature IVC was spread over northwest India between 2600-1900 BCE.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Speaking to TOI, Dr Niraj Rai of the Birbal Sahni Institute of Paleosciences, who conducted the genetic research on the Rakhigarhi skeletons, defended the extrapolation of data on the basis of one genome sample.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;One sample means a billion people. That is the power of genetics. We have conclusive data and evidence to prove that there was no Aryan invasion.}}<br /> :::[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 15:34, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::We really shouldn't rush in to change everything with a primary source. We should wait until it's been discussed. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 16:47, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::: the point the artice making is that it is not foreign aryan invaders that brought the IVC . IVC is indigenous to India and Indo European languages were later spread to the same indigenous population. &lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt;&lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/186.179.224.184|186.179.224.184]] ([[User talk:186.179.224.184#top|talk]]) 18:02, 7 September 2019 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> ::::::What's the news then? No scholar argues that the Aryans initiated the IVC, except for fringe Indigenous Aryans &quot;theorists.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 18:21, 7 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::::::This is a very interesting blogpost: [https://t-o-i-h.blogspot.com/?m=1 ''The antiquity of west eurasian ancestry in south asia'']. I don't recall the details, but Taharaj or Moorjani published on an element in India-s ancestry which was present before 12,500 years ago, and unmixed for most of that time. Intriguely, this blogpost also notes that R1a may have been present in India for thousands of years - hence the impression that it originated there? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:49, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::::::The Telegraph-reporter actually did read the article: [https://m.telegraphindia.com/india/rakhigarhi-dna-does-not-contain-aryan-genetic-trace/cid/1703089 ''Rakhigarhi DNA does not contain 'Aryan’ genetic trace. Study does not rule out the theory of Aryan invasion'']. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:43, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::::::David Reich responds: [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/indus-valley-civilisation-is-largest-source-of-ancestry-for-south-asians/articleshow/71042072.cms ''Indus Valley Civilisation is largest source of ancestry for South Asians: David Reich'']. He's very polite and diplomatic! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 11:13, 9 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> :::::::This makes some sense: [https://scroll.in/article/936872/two-new-genetic-studies-upheld-aryan-migration-theory-so-why-did-indian-media-report-the-opposite Two new genetic studies upheld Indo-Aryan migration. So why did Indian media report the opposite? - Scroll]. -[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:36, 13 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Article needs to be changed. Because Dr. Sinde has proven that the aryans were indigenous and aryan and dravidians were same. [[User:Manojjha5432|Manojjha5432]] ([[User talk:Manojjha5432|talk]]) 22:49, 13 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> :{{yo|Manojjha5432}} please read the thread you've just contributed to. Shinde has made personal statements which contradict his recent publication, and are not supported by his co-authors. As a matter of fact, Shinde et al. (2019) ''confirms'' the Indo-Aryan migration. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 04:17, 14 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::[https://thewire.in/media/rakhigarhi-indus-valley-civilisation-aryan-steppe-migration-vasant-shinde The Wire] on Shinde's spin. Ah, and Tony Jospeh comments: [https://www.thehindu.com/society/history-and-culture/theres-no-confusion-the-new-reports-clearly-confirm-arya-migration-into-india/article29409611.ece ''New reports clearly confirm ‘Arya’ migration into India'']! See also [https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/what-does-ancient-dna-show-about-history/article29418631.ece this additional commentary in The Hindu]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:07, 15 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::Another blog on the ancientness of the connection between IVC and Iranian farmers: [https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/09/15/the-origins-of-the-neolithic-in-the-indian-subcontinent/ ''The Origins of the Neolithic in the Indian subcontinent'']. As noted by other bloggers also ([https://t-o-i-h.blogspot.com/?m=1 ''The Antiquity of West Eurasian Ancestry in South Asia'']), that the split between Iranian and Indus Valley hunter-gatherers took place before the start of the Holocene, was already implied by previous research. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 10:11, 16 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Fowler&amp;fowler}} {{ping|Kautilya3}} Was there any consensuses on adding genetic studies to South Asian ethnic groups pages? I thought there was not? either way, there has been recent vandalism on [[Vedda people]] page, [[Tamil people]] page, [[Telugu people]] page and [[Brahui language]] page. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 06:04, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> See this IP hopper. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 06:04, 13 February 2020 (UTC) <br /> * {{Checkip|1=81.10.217.91}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=117.254.65.252}}<br /> <br /> == Narasimhan et al. (2019) and the advent of farming ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Krakkos|Skllagyook|Florian Blaschke}} Narasimhan et al. (2019) p.11 has been puzzling me for months. They give two possibilities for the origins of the Iranian farmer-related ancestry. One is, or so they seem to suggest, is that this ancestry came from east-Iranian hunter-gatherers. The other is that it came with farmers who brought farming to India. Yet, they then state that the Iranian component lacked Anatolian farmer ancestry, which was common in Iran after 6000 BCE. I've alway thought that this meant that those Iranian farmer related people couldn't be agrarians, and somehow stayed out of contact with (Anatolia-related) farmers, either in some enclave in Iran; or in India, arriving there long before they mixed with the Indian hunter-hatherers-turned farmers.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Yet, their real argument seems to be that IE-languages did not arrive in India with the advance of farming, since there was no substantial Iranian (farmer) migration towards India after 6000 BCE. They state so, because the Anatalian, widespread in Iran after 6000 BCE, is lacking in India.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Well, that's in line with the fact that farming seems to have originated in northern India more or less independent from the ferticle crescent. But note this from Mascarenhas et al. (2015):<br /> {{talkquote|new, possibly West Asian, body types are reported from the graves of Mehrgarh beginning in the Togau phase (3800&amp;nbsp;BCE).}}<br /> And note that Narasimhan et al. state that IVC was a mixture of ancient Indian hunter-gatherers ''related'' people and Iranian farmers related people; those AHG may or may not have been the first Indian farmers; but it could also be those Iranians who became the first farmers. So, while their real point is that IE-languages were not introduced by Iranian farmers, they argue that farming was not introduced ''from'' Iran by these Iranians. What are your thoughts? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 07:39, 28 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;br&gt;<br /> PS: it was Shinde et al. (2019), [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers ''An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers''] who suggest that this Iranian-farmers related population split-off 12,000 years ago:<br /> {{talkquote|[p.4:] the Iranian-related ancestry in the IVC Cline descends from a different group of hunter-gatherers from the ancestors of the earliest known farmers or herders in the western<br /> Iranian plateau.}}<br /> That seems to be the source of my puzzlement: where did those people stay, c.q. when did they move into India? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 07:55, 28 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> [[File:Vavilov-centers updated.jpg|thumb|right|[[Vavilov Center|Vavilov model]] from 1930s]]<br /> : I am not entirely sure what you are saying, but I would expect that the spread of farming does not necessarily involve large-scale migration, especially when it spreads into populated areas. Dispersion, diffusion etc. would be at play. On the other hand, spread of languages is likely to involve large-scale migration. The new language speakers would need to be of sufficient number to supplant the earlier languages. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 11:02, 28 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{yo|Joshua Jonathan}} I'm somewhat busy, but will try to look at this when I can. [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 18:34, 28 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Those studies relate the advance of farming in Iran with the advance of Anatolian genes in Iran, which is lacking in the Iranian component in India. Yet, the timeframe of the introduction of this Iranian component in India coincides with the start of the regionalisation phase of the IVC. And farming in northern India ''is'' related to Iran/Mesopotamia. So, somehow I don't buy it, that those Iranians werenot farmers. Where did those Iranians hide-out not becoming farmers, and why did they the become farmers in India, mixing with locals? If they already were in India, as Narasimhan et al. seem to suggest, why didn't they mix earlier? And if they were in Iran, not being farmers, why would they move to India, to become farmers there? It makes more sense if they were farmers who brought new techniques to India, and mixed with the local population. But then, still, how about this claim that the advance of farming in Iran coincides with the advance of Anatolian ancestry in Iran? Could it be that hunter-gatherers who took over farming, next became part of a farmer's mating network? See also Lazaridis et al. (2017), [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5003663/ ''Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East'']:<br /> :::{{talkquote|We reject the hypothesis that the spread of agriculture in the Near East was achieved by the dispersal of a single farming population displacing the hunter-gatherers they encountered. Instead, the spread of ideas and farming technology moved faster than the spread of people, as we can determine from the fact that the population structure of the Near East was maintained throughout the transition to agriculture.}}<br /> :::But, on the other hand, Razib Khan, [https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2019/09/05/the-day-of-the-dasa/ ''The day of the Dhasa'']:<br /> :::{{talkquote|...it may, in fact, be the case that ANI-like quasi-Iranians occupied northwest South Asia for a long time, and AHG populations hugged the southern and eastern fringes, during the height of the Pleistocene.}}<br /> :::Qustions, questions... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 05:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> ::::I'm not particularly acquainted with the pre-Indo-European genetic history of South Asia. It seems like recent studies contract each other in certain respects. Hopefully, future studies will straighten out these uncertainties. [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 15:01, 29 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> :::::Ah yes, Iranian hunter-gatherers:<br /> :::::* Jaydeepsinh_Rathod, [https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/09/15/the-origins-of-the-neolithic-in-the-indian-subcontinent/ ''The Origins of the Neolithic in the Indian subcontinent'']<br /> :::::* [https://t-o-i-h.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-antiquity-of-west-eurasian-ancestry.html ''The Antiquity of West Eurasian Ancestry in South Asia'']<br /> :::::This person argues, convincingly, that previous DNA-research already pointed to a longer presence of this west-Eurasian ancenstry in India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:38, 30 January 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=940551262 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-02-13T05:18:16Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Ancient DNA studies */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=C|importance=low|assess-date=February 2020}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} He seems to be back and evading ban. <br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.66}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.42}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.50}} <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> <br /> I think he is IP hopping? [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{re|Ilber8000}} I've blocked the range. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:56, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} he seems to be back again and IP hopping, similar vandalism. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 05:17, 13 February 2020 (UTC)<br /> * {{Checkip|1=81.10.217.91}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=117.254.65.252}}<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. 2019==<br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below:<br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;If one of these population fits, it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that poten-tially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Ah, I see it now. Thank you. [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 16:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Chronological order of info ==<br /> <br /> * I've moved the ANI_ASI downwards, to create a more chronological order. Some of it's info could be moved further to other places.<br /> * This section, by the way, contains a lot of doublures. <br /> * The Iranian neolithic farmer hypothesis has to be adjusted, given Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> * The Holocene section is now very short, but can serve as an introductory overview. Da Silva et al. (2017), [https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 ''A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals''] should be mentioned; they argue for various post-glacial, pre-farmer migrations into South Asia. This collaborates the early date of western Eurasian ancestry in South Asia, found by Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> I'm a bit in a hurry now, but I'll work on this further. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:31, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> : {{ping|Joshua Jonathan}} Thank you, the Negrito section and [[Andamanese people]] page also needs some clean up. It's all repetition. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 22:30, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> ::Done. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 08:57, 1 February 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mal%27ta%E2%80%93Buret%27_culture&diff=938561297 Mal'ta–Buret' culture 2020-01-31T23:25:46Z <p>Ilber8000: Went though the source again, South Asians are not even mentioned in ANE context.</p> <hr /> <div>{{Infobox ethnic group<br /> | group = Mal'ta–Buret' culture<br /> | native_name = <br /> | native_name_lang = <br /> | image = Engraving of a mammoth on a slab of mammoth ivory, from the Upper Paleolithic Mal'ta deposits at Lake Baikal, Siberia.gif<br /> | image_caption = Engraving of a mammoth on a slab of mammoth ivory, from the Upper Paleolithic Mal'ta deposits at Lake Baikal, Siberia<br /> <br /> | total = &lt;!-- total population worldwide --&gt;<br /> | total_year = &lt;!-- year of total population --&gt;<br /> | total_source = &lt;!-- source of total population; may be ''census'' or ''estimate'' --&gt;<br /> | total_ref = &lt;!-- references supporting total population --&gt;<br /> | genealogy = <br /> | regions = Irkutsk Oblast, Siberia, Russian Federation<br /> <br /> | languages =<br /> | philosophies = <br /> | religions =<br /> | related_groups = <br /> | footnotes = <br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{Infobox archaeological culture<br /> | name = Mal'ta–Buret' <br /> | map =<br /> | mapcaption = <br /> | mapalt =<br /> | altnames =<br /> | horizon =<br /> | region = Siberia<br /> | period = Upper Paleolithic<br /> | dates = 24,000-15,000 BP<br /> | typesite =<br /> | majorsites =<br /> | extra =<br /> | precededby =<br /> | followedby = [[Afontova Gora]]<br /> | definedby =<br /> | antiquatedby =<br /> | module =<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{coord|52.9|N|103.5|E|display=title}}<br /> {{Paleolithic|upper}}<br /> <br /> The '''Mal'ta–Buret' culture''' is an [[archaeological culture]] of the [[Upper Paleolithic]] (c. 24,000 to 15,000 BP) on the upper [[Angara River]] in the area west of [[Lake Baikal]] in the [[Irkutsk Oblast]], [[Siberia]], [[Russian Federation]]. The type sites are named for the villages of '''Mal'ta''' ({{lang|ru|Мальта́}}), [[Usolsky District, Irkutsk Oblast|Usolsky District]] and '''Buret' ''' ({{lang|ru|Буреть}}), [[Bokhansky District]] (both in [[Irkutsk Oblast]]).<br /> <br /> A boy whose remains were found near Mal'ta is usually known by the abbreviation '''MA-1''' (or MA1). Discovered in the 1920s, the remains have been dated to 24,000 BP. According to research published since 2013, MA-1 belonged to a population related to the genetic ancestors of [[Siberia]]ns, [[Genetic history of indigenous peoples of the Americas#Haplogroup R1|American Indians]], and Bronze Age [[Yamna culture|Yamnaya]] and [[Botai culture|Botai]]&lt;ref name=&quot;urlCharacterizing the genetic history of admixture across inner Eurasia | bioRxiv&quot;&gt;{{cite web |url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/327122v1.full |title=Characterizing the genetic history of admixture across inner Eurasia &amp;#124; bioRxiv |format= |work= |accessdate=|quote=The Eneolithic Botai individuals are closer to each other in the PC space than to any other ancient or present-day individual, and are in proximity to the upper Paleolithic Siberians from the Mal’ta (MA-1) or Afontova Gora (AG3) archaeological sites}}&lt;/ref&gt; people of the [[Eurasian steppe]].{{sfn|Raghavan|Skoglund et al.|2014}}{{sfn|Haak|Lazaridis et al.|2015}} In particular, modern-day [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Native Americans]], [[Ket people|Kets]], [[Mansi people|Mansi]], and [[selkup people|Selkup]] have been found to harbour a lot of ancestry related to MA-1.{{sfn|Flegontov|Changmai et al.|2015}}<br /> <br /> Much of what is known about Mal'ta comes from the Russian archaeologist [[Mikhail Mikhaylovich Gerasimov|Mikhail Gerasimov]]. Better known later for his contribution to the branch of anthropology known as [[forensic facial reconstruction]], Gerasimov made revolutionary discoveries when he excavated Mal'ta in 1927. Until his findings, the Upper Paleolithic societies of Northern Asia were virtually unknown. Over the remainder of his career Gerasimov twice more visited Mal'ta to excavate and research the site.<br /> <br /> ==Material culture==<br /> ===Habitation and tools===<br /> {{unreferenced section|date=August 2017}}<br /> Mal'ta consists of semi-subterranean houses that were built using large animal bones to assemble the walls, and reindeer antlers covered with animal skins to construct a roof that would protect the inhabitants from the harsh elements of the Siberian weather.<br /> <br /> Evidence seems to indicate that Mal'ta is the most ancient known site in eastern Siberia; however, relative dating illustrates some irregularities. The use of flint flaking and the absence of pressure flaking used in the manufacture of tools, as well as the continued use of earlier forms of tools, seem to confirm the fact that the site belongs to the early [[Upper Paleolithic]]. Yet it lacks typical [[skreblo]]s (large side scrapers) that are common in other Siberian Paleolithic sites. Additionally, other common characteristics such as pebble cores, wedge-shaped cores, burins, and composite tools have never been found. The lack of these features, combined with an art style found in only one other nearby site, make Mal'ta culture unique in Siberia.<br /> <br /> ===Art===<br /> There were two main types of art during the Upper Paleolithic: mural art, which was concentrated in Western Europe, and portable art. Portable art, typically some type of carving in ivory tusk or antler, spans the distance across Western Europe into Northern and Central Asia. Artistic remains of expertly carved bone, ivory, and antler objects depicting birds and human females are the most commonly found; these objects are, collectively, the primary source of Mal'ta's acclaim.<br /> <br /> In addition to the female statuettes there are bird sculptures depicting swans, geese, and ducks. Through ethnographic analogy comparing the ivory objects and burials at Mal'ta with objects used by 19th and 20th century Siberian shamans, it has been suggested that they are evidence of a fully developed shamanism.<br /> <br /> Also, there are engraved representations on slabs of mammoth tusk. One is the figure of a mammoth, easily recognizable by the trunk, tusks and thick legs. Wool also seems to be etched, by the placement of straight lines along the body. Another drawing depicts three snakes with their heads puffed up and turned to the side. It is believed that they were similar to cobras.<br /> <br /> ====Venus figurines====<br /> {{Main|Mal'ta Venus|Venus of Buret'}}<br /> Perhaps the best example of Paleolithic portable art is something referred to as &quot;[[Venus figurines]]&quot;. Until they were discovered in Mal'ta, &quot;Venus figurines&quot; were previously found only in Europe. Carved from the ivory tusk of a mammoth, these images were typically highly stylized, and often involved embellished and disproportionate characteristics (typically the breasts or buttocks). It is widely believed that these emphasized features were meant to be symbols of fertility. Around thirty female statuettes of varying shapes have been found in Mal'ta. The wide variety of forms, combined with the realism of the sculptures and the lack of repetitiveness in detail, are definite signs of developed, albeit early, art.<br /> <br /> At first glance, what is obvious is that the Mal'ta Venus figurines are of two types: full figured women with exaggerated forms, and women with a thin, delicate form. Some of the figures are nude, while others have etchings that seem to indicate fur or clothing. Conversely, unlike those found in Europe, some of the Venus figurines from Mal'ta were sculpted with faces. Most of the figurines were tapered at the bottom, and it is believed that this was done to enable them to be stuck into the ground or otherwise placed upright. Placed upright, they could have symbolized the spirits of the dead, akin to &quot;spirit dolls&quot; used nearly worldwide, including in Siberia, among contemporary people.<br /> <br /> ;Context of the Venus figurines<br /> The Mal'ta figurines garner interest in the western world because they seem to be of the same basic form as European female figurines of roughly the same time period. This similarity between Mal'ta and Upper Paleolithic Europe coincides with other suggested similarities between the two, such as in their tools and dwelling structures{{Citation needed|reason=evidence for similarity in tools and dwellings?|date=November 2017}}.<br /> <br /> On the other hand, one can argue that, as a group, the Mal'ta Venus figurines are rather different from the female figurines of Western and Central Europe. For example, none of the Siberian specimens depict abdominal enlargement as many European examples do. Also, as breasts are often lacking in the Mal'ta figurines, few offer clear enough evidence of gender to define them as female. More conclusively, nearly half of them show some facial details, something which is lacking in the Venus figurines of Europe. It may not be possible to reach a definitive answer as to the origins of these peoples and their culture.<br /> <br /> A 2016 genomic study shows that the Mal'ta people have no genetic connections to the [[Dolní Věstonice (archaeology)|Dolní Věstonice people]] from the [[Gravettian culture]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Fu |first1=Qiaomei |last2=Posth |first2=Cosimo |last3=Hajdinjak |first3=Mateja |title=The genetic history of Ice Age Europe |journal=[[Nature (journal)|Nature]] |volume=504 |issue=7606 |pages=200–5 |date=May 2, 2016 |doi=10.1038/nature17993 |pmid=27135931 |pmc=4943878 |display-authors=2 |bibcode=2016Natur.534..200F|hdl=10211.3/198594 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Symbolism===<br /> Discussing this easternmost outpost of [[paleolithic]] culture, [[Joseph Campbell]] finishes by commenting on the symbolic forms of the artifacts found there:<br /> :We are clearly in a [[paleolithic]] province where the [[Serpent (symbolism)|serpent]], [[labyrinth]], and rebirth themes already constitute a symbolic constellation, joined with the imagery of the sunbird and [[shaman]] flight, with the goddess in her classic role of [[Hestia|protectress of the hearth]], mother of man's second birth, and [[Potnia Theron|lady of wild things]] and of the food supply.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Campbell|first=Joseph|title=Primitive Mythology|year=1987|isbn=0-14-019443-6|pages=[https://archive.org/details/masksofgod00camp_0/page/331 331]|url-access=registration|url=https://archive.org/details/masksofgod00camp_0/page/331}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Archaeogenetics==<br /> {{main|Ancient North Eurasian}}{{anchor|ANE}}<br /> MA-1 is the only known example of [[Basal_(phylogenetics)|basal]] [[Haplogroup R-M207|Y-DNA R*]] (R-M207*) – that is, the only member of haplogroup [[Haplogroup R-M207|R*]] that did not belong to haplogroups [[Haplogroup R-M173|R1]], [[Haplogroup R-M124|R2]] or secondary subclades of these. The [[mitochondrial DNA]] of MA-1 belonged to an unresolved subclade of [[haplogroup U (mtDNA)|haplogroup U]].&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/extref/nature12736-s1.pdf doi 10.1038/nature12736 Supplementary Information]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The term [[Ancient North Eurasian]] (ANE) has been given in genetic literature to an ancestral component that represents descent from the people similar to the Mal'ta–Buret' culture or a population [[Afontova Gora|closely related]] to them.{{sfn|Flegontov|Changmai et al.|2015}} The genetic component ANE descends from Ancient South Eurasian.&lt;ref name=Lazaridis&gt;{{Cite journal | doi = 10.1038/nature19310| pmid = 27459054| title = Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East| journal = Nature | date = 16 June 2016| last1 = Lazaridis| first1 = Iosif| last2 = Nadel| first2 = Dani| last3 = Rollefson| first3 = Gary| last4 = Merrett| first4 = Deborah C.| last5 = Rohland| first5 = Nadin| last6 = Mallick| first6 = Swapan| last7 = Fernandes| first7 = Daniel| last8 = Novak| first8 = Mario| last9 = Gamarra| first9 = Beatriz| last10 = Sirak| first10 = Kendra| last11 = Connell| first11 = Sarah| last12 = Stewardson| first12 = Kristin| last13 = Harney| first13 = Eadaoin| last14 = Fu| first14 = Qiaomei| last15 = Gonzalez-Fortes| first15 = Gloria| last16 = Jones| first16 = Eppie R.| last17 = Roodenberg| first17 = Songül Alpaslan| last18 = Lengyel| first18 = György| last19 = Bocquentin| first19 = Fanny| last20 = Gasparian| first20 = Boris| last21 = Monge| first21 = Janet M.| last22 = Gregg| first22 = Michael| last23 = Eshed| first23 = Vered| last24 = Mizrahi| first24 = Ahuva-Sivan| last25 = Meiklejohn| first25 = Christopher| last26 = Gerritsen| first26 = Fokke| last27 = Bejenaru| first27 = Luminita| last28 = Blüher| first28 = Matthias| last29 = Campbell| first29 = Archie| last30 = Cavalleri| first30 = Gianpiero| last31 = Comas| first31 = David| last32 = Froguel| first32 = Philippe| last33 = Gilbert| first33 = Edmund| last34 = Kerr| first34 = Shona M.| last35 = Kovacs| first35 = Peter| last36 = Krause| first36 = Johannes| last37 = McGettigan| first37 = Darren| last38 = Merrigan| first38 = Michael| last39 = Merriwether| first39 = D. Andrew| last40 = O'Reilly| first40 = Seamus| last41 = Richards| first41 = Martin B.| last42 = Semino| first42 = Ornella| last43 = Shamoon-Pour| first43 = Michel| last44 = Stefanescu| first44 = Gheorghe| last45 = Stumvoll| first45 = Michael| last46 = Tönjes| first46 = Anke| last47 = Torroni| first47 = Antonio| last48 = Wilson| first48 = James F.| last49 = Yengo| first49 = Loic| last50 = Hovhannisyan| first50 = Nelli A.| last51 = Patterson| first51 = Nick| last52 = Pinhasi| first52 = Ron| last53 = Reich| first53 = David| display-authors = 3| biorxiv=059311 | volume=536 | issue = 7617| pages=419–424| bibcode = 2016Natur.536..419L| pmc = 5003663}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|&quot;Ancient South Eurasian&quot; (ASE) is also known as ''Eastern Non-Africans'' (ENA) in genetic literature. Lazaridis et al. (2016) describes ANE as &quot;a population on the Onge→Han cline.&quot; (p.23; cf. ''Figure 3, A'' and ''Figure S11.3, Table S11.6'')}}<br /> <br /> A people similar to MA1 and Afontova Gora were important genetic contributors to Native Americans, Siberians, Europeans, Caucasians, Central Asians, with smaller contributions to Middle Easterners and some East Asians.{{sfn|Lazarids et al.|2016|p.10}} Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes &quot;a cline of ANE ancestry across the east-west extent of Eurasia.&quot;{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016|p.10}} According to a 2016 study, it was found that the global maximum of ANE ancestry occurs in modern-day [[Ket people|Kets]], [[Mansi people|Mansi]], [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Native Americans]], and [[Selkup people|Selkups]].{{sfn|Flegontov|Changmai et al.|2015}} Additionally it has been reported in ancient Bronze-age-steppe [[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya]] and [[Afanasevo culture|Afanasevo]] cultures.{{sfn|Haak|Lazaridis et al.|2015}} Between 14 and 38 percent of Native American ancestry may originate from gene flow from the Mal'ta Buret people, while the other geneflow in Native Americans appears to have an Eastern Eurasian origin. {{sfn|Raghavan|Skoglund et al.|2014}}<br /> <br /> MA1 is also related to two older Upper Paleolithic Siberian individals found near Yana river called Ancient North Siberians (ANS) and to [[Tianyuan man]] from Upper Paleolithic China.&lt;ref name=&quot;urlThe population history of northeastern Siberia since the Pleistocene | Nature&quot;&gt;{{cite web |url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1279-z |title=The population history of northeastern Siberia since the Pleistocene &amp;#124; Nature |format= |work= |accessdate=}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note}}<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==Bibliography==<br /> * {{cite journal |last=Bednarik |first=Robert G. |year=1994 |title=The Pleistocene Art of Asia |journal=Journal of World Prehistory |volume=8 |issue=4 |pages=351–75 |doi=10.1007/bf02221090}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Chard |first=Chester S. |year=1974 |title=Northeast Asia in Prehistory |url=https://archive.org/details/northeastasiainp00char |url-access=registration |location=Madison, WI |publisher=The University of Wisconsin Press }}<br /> * {{cite journal |author1=Dolitsky, A.B. |author2=Ackerman. R.E. |author3=Aigner, J.S. |author4=Bryan, A.L. |author5=Dennell, R. |author6=Guthrie, R.D. |author7=Hoffecker, J.F. |author8=Hopkins, D.M. |author9=Lanata, J.L. |author10=Workmanm, W.B. |year=1985 |title=Siberian Paleolithic Archaeology: Approaches and Analytic Methods |journal=Current Anthropology |volume=26 |issue=3 |pages=361–78 |display-authors=2 |doi=10.1086/203280}}<br /> *{{cite journal |last1=Flegontov |first1=Pavel |last2=Changmai |first2=Piya |last3=Zidkova |first3=Anastassiya |date=Feb 11, 2016 |title=Genomic study of the Ket: a Paleo-Eskimo-related ethnic group with significant ancient North Eurasian ancestry |journal=Scientific Reports |volume=6 |doi=10.1038/srep20768 |display-authors=2 |ref={{harvid|Flegontov|Changmai et al.|2015}} |pages=20768 |pmid=26865217 |pmc=4750364|bibcode=2016NatSR...620768F |arxiv=1508.03097 }}<br /> *{{Cite journal |last1=Haak |first1 =W. |last2=Lazaridis |first2=I. |last3=Patterson |first3=Nick |year=2015 |title=Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe |journal=[[Nature (journal)|Nature]] |volume=522 |issue =7555 |pages=207–11 |doi=10.1038/nature14317 |display-authors=2 |ref={{harvid|Haak|Lazaridis et al.|2015}} |pmid=25731166 |pmc=5048219|bibcode =2015Natur.522..207H |arxiv=1502.02783 }}<br /> * {{cite journal |author1=Jones, Eppie R. |author2=Gonzalez-Fortes, Gloria |author3=Connell, Sarah |year=2015 |title=Upper Palaeolithic genomes reveal deep roots of modern Eurasians |journal=Nature Communications |volume=6 |doi=10.1038/ncomms9912 |display-authors=2 |pages=8912 |pmid=26567969 |pmc=4660371|bibcode=2015NatCo...6.8912J }}<br /> * {{cite journal |author1=Lazaridis, Iosif |author2=Patterson, Nick |author3=Mittnik, Alissa |year=2014 |title=Ancient human genomes suggest three ancestral populations for present-day Europeans |journal=Nature |volume=513 |issue=7518 |pages=409–13 |doi=10.1038/nature13673 |display-authors=2 |pmid=25230663 |pmc=4170574|bibcode=2014Natur.513..409L |arxiv=1312.6639 }}<br /> * Martynov, Anatoly I, ''The Ancient Art of Northern Asia'', trans. Demitri B. Shimkin and Edith M. Shimkin. Chicago, Illinois: University of Illinois Press, 1991.<br /> *{{cite journal |last1=Raghavan |first1=Maanasa |last2=Skoglund |first2=Pontus |last3=Graf |first3=Kelly E. |year=2014 |title=Upper Palaeolithic Siberian Genome Reveals Dual Ancestry of Native Americans |journal=Nature |volume=505 |issue=7481 |pages=87–91 |pmid=24256729 |doi=10.1038/nature12736 |display-authors=2 |ref={{harvid|Raghavan|Skoglund et al.|2014}} |pmc=4105016|bibcode=2014Natur.505...87R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 = Schlesier | first1 = Karl H | year = 2001 | title = More on the Venus Figurines | url = | journal = Current Anthropology | volume = 42 | issue = 3| pages = 410–412 | doi=10.1086/320478}}<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 = Sieveking | first1 = Ann | year = 1971 | title = Palaeolithic Decorated Bone Discs&quot; T | url = | journal = He British Museum Quarterly | volume = 35 | issue = 1/4| pages = 206–229 | doi=10.2307/4423083| jstor = 4423083 }}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> {{Commons category|Mal'ta-Buret' culture}}<br /> <br /> * [http://kunstkamera.ru/en/temporary_exhibitions/virtual/gerasimov/ &quot;Faces of our Ancestors: A centenary celebration of M. M. Gerasimov.&quot; Кунсткамера - Новости]<br /> * [https://arstechnica.com/science/2013/11/ancient-siberians-skeleton-yields-links-to-europe-and-native-americans/ Ancient Siberian’s skeleton yields links to Europe and Native Americans] peene<br /> <br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:Mal'ta-Buret' culture}}<br /> [[Category:Upper Paleolithic cultures]]<br /> [[Category:Archaeological sites in Siberia]]<br /> [[Category:Archaeological cultures of Siberia]]<br /> [[Category:Irkutsk Oblast]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=938553952 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-01-31T22:30:29Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Chronological order of info */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=start|importance=low|assess-date=February 2015}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} He seems to be back and evading ban. <br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.66}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.42}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.50}} <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> <br /> I think he is IP hopping? [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{re|Ilber8000}} I've blocked the range. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 18:56, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. 2019==<br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below:<br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;If one of these population fits, it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that poten-tially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Ah, I see it now. Thank you. [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 16:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Chronological order of info ==<br /> <br /> * I've moved the ANI_ASI downwards, to create a more chronological order. Some of it's info could be moved further to other places.<br /> * This section, by the way, contains a lot of doublures. <br /> * The Iranian neolithic farmer hypothesis has to be adjusted, given Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> * The Holocene section is now very short, but can serve as an introductory overview. Da Silva et al. (2017), [https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-017-0936-9 ''A genetic chronology for the Indian Subcontinent points to heavily sex-biased dispersals''] should be mentioned; they argue for various post-glacial, pre-farmer migrations into South Asia. This collaborates the early date of western Eurasian ancestry in South Asia, found by Narasimhan et al. (2019) and Shinde et al. (2019)<br /> I'm a bit in a hurry now, but I'll work on this further. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 06:31, 31 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> :: {{ping|Joshua Jonathan}} Thank you, the Negrito section and [[Andamanese people]] page also needs some clean up. It's all repetition. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 22:30, 31 January 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mal%27ta%E2%80%93Buret%27_culture&diff=938553436 Mal'ta–Buret' culture 2020-01-31T22:26:55Z <p>Ilber8000: Undid revision 938443123 by Skllagyook (talk) Iran_Neoltihic is partially ANE. It's where most of the ANE is from for South Asians.</p> <hr /> <div>{{Infobox ethnic group<br /> | group = Mal'ta–Buret' culture<br /> | native_name = <br /> | native_name_lang = <br /> | image = Engraving of a mammoth on a slab of mammoth ivory, from the Upper Paleolithic Mal'ta deposits at Lake Baikal, Siberia.gif<br /> | image_caption = Engraving of a mammoth on a slab of mammoth ivory, from the Upper Paleolithic Mal'ta deposits at Lake Baikal, Siberia<br /> <br /> | total = &lt;!-- total population worldwide --&gt;<br /> | total_year = &lt;!-- year of total population --&gt;<br /> | total_source = &lt;!-- source of total population; may be ''census'' or ''estimate'' --&gt;<br /> | total_ref = &lt;!-- references supporting total population --&gt;<br /> | genealogy = <br /> | regions = Irkutsk Oblast, Siberia, Russian Federation<br /> <br /> | languages =<br /> | philosophies = <br /> | religions =<br /> | related_groups = <br /> | footnotes = <br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{Infobox archaeological culture<br /> | name = Mal'ta–Buret' <br /> | map =<br /> | mapcaption = <br /> | mapalt =<br /> | altnames =<br /> | horizon =<br /> | region = Siberia<br /> | period = Upper Paleolithic<br /> | dates = 24,000-15,000 BP<br /> | typesite =<br /> | majorsites =<br /> | extra =<br /> | precededby =<br /> | followedby = [[Afontova Gora]]<br /> | definedby =<br /> | antiquatedby =<br /> | module =<br /> }}<br /> <br /> {{coord|52.9|N|103.5|E|display=title}}<br /> {{Paleolithic|upper}}<br /> <br /> The '''Mal'ta–Buret' culture''' is an [[archaeological culture]] of the [[Upper Paleolithic]] (c. 24,000 to 15,000 BP) on the upper [[Angara River]] in the area west of [[Lake Baikal]] in the [[Irkutsk Oblast]], [[Siberia]], [[Russian Federation]]. The type sites are named for the villages of '''Mal'ta''' ({{lang|ru|Мальта́}}), [[Usolsky District, Irkutsk Oblast|Usolsky District]] and '''Buret' ''' ({{lang|ru|Буреть}}), [[Bokhansky District]] (both in [[Irkutsk Oblast]]).<br /> <br /> A boy whose remains were found near Mal'ta is usually known by the abbreviation '''MA-1''' (or MA1). Discovered in the 1920s, the remains have been dated to 24,000 BP. According to research published since 2013, MA-1 belonged to a population related to the genetic ancestors of [[Siberia]]ns, [[Genetic history of indigenous peoples of the Americas#Haplogroup R1|American Indians]], and Bronze Age [[Yamna culture|Yamnaya]] and [[Botai culture|Botai]]&lt;ref name=&quot;urlCharacterizing the genetic history of admixture across inner Eurasia | bioRxiv&quot;&gt;{{cite web |url=https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/327122v1.full |title=Characterizing the genetic history of admixture across inner Eurasia &amp;#124; bioRxiv |format= |work= |accessdate=|quote=The Eneolithic Botai individuals are closer to each other in the PC space than to any other ancient or present-day individual, and are in proximity to the upper Paleolithic Siberians from the Mal’ta (MA-1) or Afontova Gora (AG3) archaeological sites}}&lt;/ref&gt; people of the [[Eurasian steppe]].{{sfn|Raghavan|Skoglund et al.|2014}}{{sfn|Haak|Lazaridis et al.|2015}} In particular, modern-day [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Native Americans]], [[Ket people|Kets]], [[Mansi people|Mansi]], and [[selkup people|Selkup]] have been found to harbour a lot of ancestry related to MA-1.{{sfn|Flegontov|Changmai et al.|2015}}<br /> <br /> Much of what is known about Mal'ta comes from the Russian archaeologist [[Mikhail Mikhaylovich Gerasimov|Mikhail Gerasimov]]. Better known later for his contribution to the branch of anthropology known as [[forensic facial reconstruction]], Gerasimov made revolutionary discoveries when he excavated Mal'ta in 1927. Until his findings, the Upper Paleolithic societies of Northern Asia were virtually unknown. Over the remainder of his career Gerasimov twice more visited Mal'ta to excavate and research the site.<br /> <br /> ==Material culture==<br /> ===Habitation and tools===<br /> {{unreferenced section|date=August 2017}}<br /> Mal'ta consists of semi-subterranean houses that were built using large animal bones to assemble the walls, and reindeer antlers covered with animal skins to construct a roof that would protect the inhabitants from the harsh elements of the Siberian weather.<br /> <br /> Evidence seems to indicate that Mal'ta is the most ancient known site in eastern Siberia; however, relative dating illustrates some irregularities. The use of flint flaking and the absence of pressure flaking used in the manufacture of tools, as well as the continued use of earlier forms of tools, seem to confirm the fact that the site belongs to the early [[Upper Paleolithic]]. Yet it lacks typical [[skreblo]]s (large side scrapers) that are common in other Siberian Paleolithic sites. Additionally, other common characteristics such as pebble cores, wedge-shaped cores, burins, and composite tools have never been found. The lack of these features, combined with an art style found in only one other nearby site, make Mal'ta culture unique in Siberia.<br /> <br /> ===Art===<br /> There were two main types of art during the Upper Paleolithic: mural art, which was concentrated in Western Europe, and portable art. Portable art, typically some type of carving in ivory tusk or antler, spans the distance across Western Europe into Northern and Central Asia. Artistic remains of expertly carved bone, ivory, and antler objects depicting birds and human females are the most commonly found; these objects are, collectively, the primary source of Mal'ta's acclaim.<br /> <br /> In addition to the female statuettes there are bird sculptures depicting swans, geese, and ducks. Through ethnographic analogy comparing the ivory objects and burials at Mal'ta with objects used by 19th and 20th century Siberian shamans, it has been suggested that they are evidence of a fully developed shamanism.<br /> <br /> Also, there are engraved representations on slabs of mammoth tusk. One is the figure of a mammoth, easily recognizable by the trunk, tusks and thick legs. Wool also seems to be etched, by the placement of straight lines along the body. Another drawing depicts three snakes with their heads puffed up and turned to the side. It is believed that they were similar to cobras.<br /> <br /> ====Venus figurines====<br /> {{Main|Mal'ta Venus|Venus of Buret'}}<br /> Perhaps the best example of Paleolithic portable art is something referred to as &quot;[[Venus figurines]]&quot;. Until they were discovered in Mal'ta, &quot;Venus figurines&quot; were previously found only in Europe. Carved from the ivory tusk of a mammoth, these images were typically highly stylized, and often involved embellished and disproportionate characteristics (typically the breasts or buttocks). It is widely believed that these emphasized features were meant to be symbols of fertility. Around thirty female statuettes of varying shapes have been found in Mal'ta. The wide variety of forms, combined with the realism of the sculptures and the lack of repetitiveness in detail, are definite signs of developed, albeit early, art.<br /> <br /> At first glance, what is obvious is that the Mal'ta Venus figurines are of two types: full figured women with exaggerated forms, and women with a thin, delicate form. Some of the figures are nude, while others have etchings that seem to indicate fur or clothing. Conversely, unlike those found in Europe, some of the Venus figurines from Mal'ta were sculpted with faces. Most of the figurines were tapered at the bottom, and it is believed that this was done to enable them to be stuck into the ground or otherwise placed upright. Placed upright, they could have symbolized the spirits of the dead, akin to &quot;spirit dolls&quot; used nearly worldwide, including in Siberia, among contemporary people.<br /> <br /> ;Context of the Venus figurines<br /> The Mal'ta figurines garner interest in the western world because they seem to be of the same basic form as European female figurines of roughly the same time period. This similarity between Mal'ta and Upper Paleolithic Europe coincides with other suggested similarities between the two, such as in their tools and dwelling structures{{Citation needed|reason=evidence for similarity in tools and dwellings?|date=November 2017}}.<br /> <br /> On the other hand, one can argue that, as a group, the Mal'ta Venus figurines are rather different from the female figurines of Western and Central Europe. For example, none of the Siberian specimens depict abdominal enlargement as many European examples do. Also, as breasts are often lacking in the Mal'ta figurines, few offer clear enough evidence of gender to define them as female. More conclusively, nearly half of them show some facial details, something which is lacking in the Venus figurines of Europe. It may not be possible to reach a definitive answer as to the origins of these peoples and their culture.<br /> <br /> A 2016 genomic study shows that the Mal'ta people have no genetic connections to the [[Dolní Věstonice (archaeology)|Dolní Věstonice people]] from the [[Gravettian culture]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal |last1=Fu |first1=Qiaomei |last2=Posth |first2=Cosimo |last3=Hajdinjak |first3=Mateja |title=The genetic history of Ice Age Europe |journal=[[Nature (journal)|Nature]] |volume=504 |issue=7606 |pages=200–5 |date=May 2, 2016 |doi=10.1038/nature17993 |pmid=27135931 |pmc=4943878 |display-authors=2 |bibcode=2016Natur.534..200F|hdl=10211.3/198594 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Symbolism===<br /> Discussing this easternmost outpost of [[paleolithic]] culture, [[Joseph Campbell]] finishes by commenting on the symbolic forms of the artifacts found there:<br /> :We are clearly in a [[paleolithic]] province where the [[Serpent (symbolism)|serpent]], [[labyrinth]], and rebirth themes already constitute a symbolic constellation, joined with the imagery of the sunbird and [[shaman]] flight, with the goddess in her classic role of [[Hestia|protectress of the hearth]], mother of man's second birth, and [[Potnia Theron|lady of wild things]] and of the food supply.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book|last=Campbell|first=Joseph|title=Primitive Mythology|year=1987|isbn=0-14-019443-6|pages=[https://archive.org/details/masksofgod00camp_0/page/331 331]|url-access=registration|url=https://archive.org/details/masksofgod00camp_0/page/331}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Archaeogenetics==<br /> {{main|Ancient North Eurasian}}{{anchor|ANE}}<br /> MA-1 is the only known example of [[Basal_(phylogenetics)|basal]] [[Haplogroup R-M207|Y-DNA R*]] (R-M207*) – that is, the only member of haplogroup [[Haplogroup R-M207|R*]] that did not belong to haplogroups [[Haplogroup R-M173|R1]], [[Haplogroup R-M124|R2]] or secondary subclades of these. The [[mitochondrial DNA]] of MA-1 belonged to an unresolved subclade of [[haplogroup U (mtDNA)|haplogroup U]].&lt;ref&gt;[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v505/n7481/extref/nature12736-s1.pdf doi 10.1038/nature12736 Supplementary Information]&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The term [[Ancient North Eurasian]] (ANE) has been given in genetic literature to an ancestral component that represents descent from the people similar to the Mal'ta–Buret' culture or a population [[Afontova Gora|closely related]] to them.{{sfn|Flegontov|Changmai et al.|2015}} The genetic component ANE descends from Ancient South Eurasian.&lt;ref name=Lazaridis&gt;{{Cite journal | doi = 10.1038/nature19310| pmid = 27459054| title = Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East| journal = Nature | date = 16 June 2016| last1 = Lazaridis| first1 = Iosif| last2 = Nadel| first2 = Dani| last3 = Rollefson| first3 = Gary| last4 = Merrett| first4 = Deborah C.| last5 = Rohland| first5 = Nadin| last6 = Mallick| first6 = Swapan| last7 = Fernandes| first7 = Daniel| last8 = Novak| first8 = Mario| last9 = Gamarra| first9 = Beatriz| last10 = Sirak| first10 = Kendra| last11 = Connell| first11 = Sarah| last12 = Stewardson| first12 = Kristin| last13 = Harney| first13 = Eadaoin| last14 = Fu| first14 = Qiaomei| last15 = Gonzalez-Fortes| first15 = Gloria| last16 = Jones| first16 = Eppie R.| last17 = Roodenberg| first17 = Songül Alpaslan| last18 = Lengyel| first18 = György| last19 = Bocquentin| first19 = Fanny| last20 = Gasparian| first20 = Boris| last21 = Monge| first21 = Janet M.| last22 = Gregg| first22 = Michael| last23 = Eshed| first23 = Vered| last24 = Mizrahi| first24 = Ahuva-Sivan| last25 = Meiklejohn| first25 = Christopher| last26 = Gerritsen| first26 = Fokke| last27 = Bejenaru| first27 = Luminita| last28 = Blüher| first28 = Matthias| last29 = Campbell| first29 = Archie| last30 = Cavalleri| first30 = Gianpiero| last31 = Comas| first31 = David| last32 = Froguel| first32 = Philippe| last33 = Gilbert| first33 = Edmund| last34 = Kerr| first34 = Shona M.| last35 = Kovacs| first35 = Peter| last36 = Krause| first36 = Johannes| last37 = McGettigan| first37 = Darren| last38 = Merrigan| first38 = Michael| last39 = Merriwether| first39 = D. Andrew| last40 = O'Reilly| first40 = Seamus| last41 = Richards| first41 = Martin B.| last42 = Semino| first42 = Ornella| last43 = Shamoon-Pour| first43 = Michel| last44 = Stefanescu| first44 = Gheorghe| last45 = Stumvoll| first45 = Michael| last46 = Tönjes| first46 = Anke| last47 = Torroni| first47 = Antonio| last48 = Wilson| first48 = James F.| last49 = Yengo| first49 = Loic| last50 = Hovhannisyan| first50 = Nelli A.| last51 = Patterson| first51 = Nick| last52 = Pinhasi| first52 = Ron| last53 = Reich| first53 = David| display-authors = 3| biorxiv=059311 | volume=536 | issue = 7617| pages=419–424| bibcode = 2016Natur.536..419L| pmc = 5003663}}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|&quot;Ancient South Eurasian&quot; (ASE) is also known as ''Eastern Non-Africans'' (ENA) in genetic literature. Lazaridis et al. (2016) describes ANE as &quot;a population on the Onge→Han cline.&quot; (p.23; cf. ''Figure 3, A'' and ''Figure S11.3, Table S11.6'')}}<br /> <br /> A people similar to MA1 and Afontova Gora were important genetic contributors to Native Americans, Siberians, Europeans, Caucasians, Central and South Asians, with smaller contributions to Middle Easterners and some East Asians.{{sfn|Lazarids et al.|2016|p.10}} Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes &quot;a cline of ANE ancestry across the east-west extent of Eurasia.&quot;{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016|p.10}} According to a 2016 study, it was found that the global maximum of ANE ancestry occurs in modern-day [[Ket people|Kets]], [[Mansi people|Mansi]], [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Native Americans]], and [[Selkup people|Selkups]].{{sfn|Flegontov|Changmai et al.|2015}} Additionally it has been reported in ancient Bronze-age-steppe [[Yamnaya culture|Yamnaya]] and [[Afanasevo culture|Afanasevo]] cultures.{{sfn|Haak|Lazaridis et al.|2015}} Between 14 and 38 percent of Native American ancestry may originate from gene flow from the Mal'ta Buret people, while the other geneflow in Native Americans appears to have an Eastern Eurasian origin. {{sfn|Raghavan|Skoglund et al.|2014}}<br /> <br /> MA1 is also related to two older Upper Paleolithic Siberian individals found near Yana river called Ancient North Siberians (ANS) and to [[Tianyuan man]] from Upper Paleolithic China.&lt;ref name=&quot;urlThe population history of northeastern Siberia since the Pleistocene | Nature&quot;&gt;{{cite web |url=https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1279-z |title=The population history of northeastern Siberia since the Pleistocene &amp;#124; Nature |format= |work= |accessdate=}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note}}<br /> <br /> ==References==<br /> {{Reflist}}<br /> <br /> ==Bibliography==<br /> * {{cite journal |last=Bednarik |first=Robert G. |year=1994 |title=The Pleistocene Art of Asia |journal=Journal of World Prehistory |volume=8 |issue=4 |pages=351–75 |doi=10.1007/bf02221090}}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Chard |first=Chester S. |year=1974 |title=Northeast Asia in Prehistory |url=https://archive.org/details/northeastasiainp00char |url-access=registration |location=Madison, WI |publisher=The University of Wisconsin Press }}<br /> * {{cite journal |author1=Dolitsky, A.B. |author2=Ackerman. R.E. |author3=Aigner, J.S. |author4=Bryan, A.L. |author5=Dennell, R. |author6=Guthrie, R.D. |author7=Hoffecker, J.F. |author8=Hopkins, D.M. |author9=Lanata, J.L. |author10=Workmanm, W.B. |year=1985 |title=Siberian Paleolithic Archaeology: Approaches and Analytic Methods |journal=Current Anthropology |volume=26 |issue=3 |pages=361–78 |display-authors=2 |doi=10.1086/203280}}<br /> *{{cite journal |last1=Flegontov |first1=Pavel |last2=Changmai |first2=Piya |last3=Zidkova |first3=Anastassiya |date=Feb 11, 2016 |title=Genomic study of the Ket: a Paleo-Eskimo-related ethnic group with significant ancient North Eurasian ancestry |journal=Scientific Reports |volume=6 |doi=10.1038/srep20768 |display-authors=2 |ref={{harvid|Flegontov|Changmai et al.|2015}} |pages=20768 |pmid=26865217 |pmc=4750364|bibcode=2016NatSR...620768F |arxiv=1508.03097 }}<br /> *{{Cite journal |last1=Haak |first1 =W. |last2=Lazaridis |first2=I. |last3=Patterson |first3=Nick |year=2015 |title=Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe |journal=[[Nature (journal)|Nature]] |volume=522 |issue =7555 |pages=207–11 |doi=10.1038/nature14317 |display-authors=2 |ref={{harvid|Haak|Lazaridis et al.|2015}} |pmid=25731166 |pmc=5048219|bibcode =2015Natur.522..207H |arxiv=1502.02783 }}<br /> * {{cite journal |author1=Jones, Eppie R. |author2=Gonzalez-Fortes, Gloria |author3=Connell, Sarah |year=2015 |title=Upper Palaeolithic genomes reveal deep roots of modern Eurasians |journal=Nature Communications |volume=6 |doi=10.1038/ncomms9912 |display-authors=2 |pages=8912 |pmid=26567969 |pmc=4660371|bibcode=2015NatCo...6.8912J }}<br /> * {{cite journal |author1=Lazaridis, Iosif |author2=Patterson, Nick |author3=Mittnik, Alissa |year=2014 |title=Ancient human genomes suggest three ancestral populations for present-day Europeans |journal=Nature |volume=513 |issue=7518 |pages=409–13 |doi=10.1038/nature13673 |display-authors=2 |pmid=25230663 |pmc=4170574|bibcode=2014Natur.513..409L |arxiv=1312.6639 }}<br /> * Martynov, Anatoly I, ''The Ancient Art of Northern Asia'', trans. Demitri B. Shimkin and Edith M. Shimkin. Chicago, Illinois: University of Illinois Press, 1991.<br /> *{{cite journal |last1=Raghavan |first1=Maanasa |last2=Skoglund |first2=Pontus |last3=Graf |first3=Kelly E. |year=2014 |title=Upper Palaeolithic Siberian Genome Reveals Dual Ancestry of Native Americans |journal=Nature |volume=505 |issue=7481 |pages=87–91 |pmid=24256729 |doi=10.1038/nature12736 |display-authors=2 |ref={{harvid|Raghavan|Skoglund et al.|2014}} |pmc=4105016|bibcode=2014Natur.505...87R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 = Schlesier | first1 = Karl H | year = 2001 | title = More on the Venus Figurines | url = | journal = Current Anthropology | volume = 42 | issue = 3| pages = 410–412 | doi=10.1086/320478}}<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 = Sieveking | first1 = Ann | year = 1971 | title = Palaeolithic Decorated Bone Discs&quot; T | url = | journal = He British Museum Quarterly | volume = 35 | issue = 1/4| pages = 206–229 | doi=10.2307/4423083| jstor = 4423083 }}<br /> <br /> ==External links==<br /> {{Commons category|Mal'ta-Buret' culture}}<br /> <br /> * [http://kunstkamera.ru/en/temporary_exhibitions/virtual/gerasimov/ &quot;Faces of our Ancestors: A centenary celebration of M. M. Gerasimov.&quot; Кунсткамера - Новости]<br /> * [https://arstechnica.com/science/2013/11/ancient-siberians-skeleton-yields-links-to-europe-and-native-americans/ Ancient Siberian’s skeleton yields links to Europe and Native Americans] peene<br /> <br /> {{DEFAULTSORT:Mal'ta-Buret' culture}}<br /> [[Category:Upper Paleolithic cultures]]<br /> [[Category:Archaeological sites in Siberia]]<br /> [[Category:Archaeological cultures of Siberia]]<br /> [[Category:Irkutsk Oblast]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=936739769 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-01-20T18:37:44Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Ancient DNA studies */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=start|importance=low|assess-date=February 2015}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} He seems to be back and evading ban. <br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.66}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.42}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.50}} <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> <br /> I think he is IP hopping? [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:37, 20 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. 2019==<br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below:<br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;If one of these population fits, it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that poten-tially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :{{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Ah, I see it now. Thank you. [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 16:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/WorldCreaterFighter/Archive&diff=936732576 Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter/Archive 2020-01-20T17:46:41Z <p>Ilber8000: /* 12 January 2020 */</p> <hr /> <div>__TOC__<br /> {{SPIarchive notice|1=WorldCreaterFighter}}<br /> {{SPIpriorcases}}<br /> =====&lt;big&gt;10 March 2015&lt;/big&gt;=====<br /> <br /> <br /> ;Suspected sockpuppets<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Spiritclaymore}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=Spiritclaymore User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=649787888 Quack] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huns&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=650579497 quack], no prior discussion or interaction between the two to my knowledge. I've also had to previously warn both about edit warring in copyright violations, and both have proven [[WP:CIR|unable to understand the concept]]. CU is not needed for this case, but that one was established while the other was still active, I suspect we've got someone who willfully intends to use sockpuppets and probably has sleepers. [[User:Ian.thomson|Ian.thomson]] ([[User talk:Ian.thomson|talk]]) 00:09, 10 March 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ======&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:150%&quot;&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/span&gt;======<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *{{Ping|Callanecc}} It was i who earlier added both {{User|WorldCreaterFighter}} and {{User|Spiritclaymore}} as suspected socks of {{User|Tirgil34}}. I explained the reasons [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Tirgil34/Archive#26 February 2015|here]]. At the most recent investigation, only a few suspected socks were endorsed. Nevertheless a very large number of users were confirmed as socks by {{User|DeltaQuad}}, including suspects i listed which were not endorsed for a CU. Due to these revelations, i'm considering launching another investigation containing both newly discovered and some earlier listet non-stale suspects. WorldCreaterFighter and Spiritclaymore initially belonged to the latter group. However would it be inappropriate to list them now that you have checked them in this investigation? [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 21:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :By the way, i'm also quite certain that {{User|92.236.36.173}} is a [[WP:IPSOCK]] of WorldCreaterFighter/Spiritclaymore.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAttila&amp;diff=629723030&amp;oldid=629699628] [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 21:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|Callanecc}} As you've now stated that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ASockpuppet_investigations%2FWorldCreaterFighter&amp;diff=650824650&amp;oldid=650813847 there were no sleepers], never mind my question above. [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 23:03, 10 March 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ======&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:150%&quot;&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/span&gt;======<br /> *{{Endorse}} - There is a possibility that this case is somehow linked to the massive [[WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Tirgil34]] case, so I'm endorsing the CU to check if there are more accounts. '''[[User:Vanjagenije|&lt;font color=&quot;008B8B&quot;&gt;Vanjagenije&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|&lt;font color=&quot;F4A460&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]''' 00:17, 10 March 2015 (UTC)<br /> *They're {{confirmed}} to each other with no other sleepers but {{unrelated}} to Tirgil34. {{ping|Vanjagenije}} In the future could you please describe why you think there's a link, makes it easier for CUs and clerks &amp; admins reviewing the case in the future. &lt;b&gt;[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]&lt;/b&gt; ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 08:04, 10 March 2015 (UTC)<br /> *The sock has been blocked and the master was given a 1 week block. As the IP hasn't made an edit for about 3 weeks (and the diff you provided was back in October) I'm going to leave it be for now. &lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Palatino;&quot;&gt; [[User:Mike V|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#151B54&quot;&gt;Mike V&lt;/b&gt;]] • [[User_talk:Mike V|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#C16C16&quot;&gt;Talk&lt;/b&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 18:09, 13 March 2015 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> =====&lt;big&gt;25 April 2015&lt;/big&gt;=====<br /> <br /> <br /> ;Suspected sockpuppets<br /> <br /> <br /> * {{checkip|1=92.236.36.173}}<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> On 10 March 2015, a sockpuppetry investigation of {{User|Spiritclaymore}} as a [[WP:SOCK|sock]] of {{User|WorldCreaterFighter}} was filed by {{User|Ian.thomson}}. I added the IP {{User|92.236.36.173}} as an [[WP:IPSOCK]] of WorldCreaterFighter, but this was rejected by [[WP:CLERK]] {{User|Mike V}} because the IP had not been editing for a while. This IP is clearly WorldCreaterFighter/Spiritclaymore, as illustrated by this diff.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAttila&amp;diff=629723030&amp;oldid=629699628] The [[WP:CHECKUSER]] was endorsed by clerk {{User|Vanjagenije}}, and Spiritclaymore was confirmed as a sock of WorldCreaterFighter by Checkuser {{User|Callanecc}}. On 13 April, sockmaster WorldCreaterFighter was [[WP:BLOCK|blocked]] indefinately by [[WP:ADMIN|administrator]] {{User|Diannaa}} for sockpuppetry, repeated [[WP:COPYVIO|copyviolations]] and other disruptive edits. After the recent block of sockmaster WorldCreaterFighter, WorldCreaterFigher has been violating his block through the same IP. The IP's most recent edit concerns [[Terence Tao]]'s [[Cantonese people|Cantonese]] ancestry.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terence_Tao&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=659099696] The first edit by Spiritclaymore was to [[Cantonese people]][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=581955059] and WorldCreaterFighter has edited Cantonese people as well.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=623725527][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=623725658] [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 20:00, 25 April 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ======&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:150%&quot;&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/span&gt;======<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ======&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:150%&quot;&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/span&gt;======<br /> {{clerknote}} The IP {{noping|92.236.36.173}} obviously belongs to WorldCreaterFighter (signs as {{U|Spiritclaymore}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AAttila&amp;diff=629723030&amp;oldid=629699628 here]), and is very active there days. Should be blocked. '''[[User:Vanjagenije|&lt;font color=&quot;008B8B&quot;&gt;Vanjagenije&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|&lt;font color=&quot;F4A460&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]''' 22:31, 28 April 2015 (UTC)<br /> *When looking at their contribs I can see that is the same editor going back to 2013. As their IP is that persistent, I have hardblocked it for 3 years. Closing. &lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 14:35, 29 April 2015 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> =====&lt;big&gt;10 July 2015&lt;/big&gt;=====<br /> <br /> <br /> ;Suspected sockpuppets<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Namela123}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> The first edit by [[User:Namela123|Namela123]] is to restore[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pazyryk_burials&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=669768315] [[WP:COPYVIO|copyviolated]] content at [[Pazyryk burials]] originally added by [[User:WorldCreaterFighter|WordlCreaterFighter's]] blocked [[WP:IPSOCK|IP sock]] [[Special:Contributions/92.236.36.173|92.236.36.173]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pazyryk_burials&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=561682365&amp;oldid=557252147] WorldCreaterFighter has been restoring this content numerous times both through the master account[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pazyryk_burials&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=654579913&amp;oldid=651240672][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pazyryk_burials&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=656328588&amp;oldid=655102619] and the confirmed sock [[User:Spiritclaymore|Spiritclaymore]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pazyryk_burials&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=649602191&amp;oldid=649527196] At [[Turkish people]] Namela123 also restores[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turkish_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=669769087] content originally added by WorldCreaterFighter's blocked IP sock.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turkish_people&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=628038715&amp;oldid=627988772] At [[Bulgars]] Namela123 restores[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bulgars&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=670848549&amp;oldid=670224897] content originally added by the master account.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bulgars&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=597799428] At [[Indus Valley Civilization]] Namela123 restores content added by Spiritclaymore.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Indus_Valley_Civilization&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=670848922] Namela123 adds the same content as Spiritclaymore to [[Eurasian (mixed ancestry)]][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eurasian_%28mixed_ancestry%29&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=670849355][[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eurasian_%28mixed_ancestry%29&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=646312534&amp;oldid=643873940]] [[Interracial marriage]],[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interracial_marriage&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=670849430][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interracial_marriage&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=646312340] [[Miscegenation]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miscegenation&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=670849546][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miscegenation&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=646312397] and [[Pazyryk culture]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pazyryk_culture&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=670849940] Bear in mind that this is precisely the same copyviolated content which WorldCreaterFight [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive881#WorldCreaterFighter and plagiarism, again|was indefinately blocked for persistently insterting]]. Namela123 is probably either a sock of WorldCreaterFighter or someone pretending to be him. I'm adding a [[WP:CheckUser|CU]] request to check for [[WP:SLEEPER|sleepers]]. [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 18:51, 10 July 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ======&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:150%&quot;&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/span&gt;======<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ======&lt;span style=&quot;font-size:150%&quot;&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/span&gt;======<br /> *{{user2|Namela123}} is {{likely}} to {{user2|WorldCreaterFighter}}. {{Nosleepers}}.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 23:54, 10 July 2015 (UTC)<br /> *Blocked and tagged. Closing. &lt;b&gt;[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]&lt;/b&gt; ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 06:28, 12 July 2015 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===08 December 2015===<br /> <br /> <br /> ;Suspected sockpuppets<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=ConspiracyThinkerPeople}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Same interests in races of Eurasia, genetics, Cantonese people, [[Arakan massacres in 1942]], [[Rohingya people]] etc. Definately a WorldCreaterFighter sock. Same attempts to insert &quot;Mongoloid&quot; to [[Ordos culture]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ordos_culture&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=650926488&amp;oldid=647749656][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ordos_culture&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=683442334&amp;oldid=665130941] Also see edits of his IP [[Special:Contributions/92.236.36.173|92.236.36.173]]. [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 16:54, 8 December 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> * {{Ping|Vanjagenije}}: I guess a [[WP:DUCK|duck block]] could be applied then. ConspiracyThinkerPeople makes the same edits as WorldCreaterFighter at [[Bulgars]],[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bulgars&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=683164964][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bulgars&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=597799428&amp;oldid=595527284] [[Polynesians]] (search for &quot;bismarck&quot;),[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Polynesians&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=683533590][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Polynesians&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=683578681] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Polynesians&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=646664598&amp;oldid=644425542][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Polynesians&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=556697098&amp;oldid=555167606] and [[Polynesia]] (search for &quot;kayser&quot;),[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Polynesia&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=683534634][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Polynesia&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=670850308&amp;oldid=667573966] and displayes the same agenda to insert &quot;mongoloid&quot; at [[Ordos culture]],[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ordos_culture&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=683384879][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ordos_culture&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=650926488&amp;oldid=647749656] add historical figures to [[Cantonese people]],[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/timeline.py?page=Cantonese_people&amp;users=92.236.36.173&amp;users=ConspiracyThinkerPeople] and highlight atrocities against the [[Rohingya]] during [[World War II]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arakan_massacres_in_1942&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=693845714][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arakan_massacres_in_1942&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=634425951&amp;oldid=631525146] [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 09:07, 9 December 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *{{Decline}} - The master and all previous socks are {{staleIP}}. '''[[User:Vanjagenije|&lt;font color=&quot;008B8B&quot;&gt;Vanjagenije&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|&lt;font color=&quot;F4A460&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]''' 21:37, 8 December 2015 (UTC)<br /> *Indeffed and removed some of his edits.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:33, 11 December 2015 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ===11 December 2015===<br /> <br /> <br /> ;Suspected sockpuppets<br /> <br /> <br /> * {{checkip|1=77.98.238.98}}<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> This is clearly the IP from which WorldCreaterFighter is now editing from. Same interests spanning from racial theories and genetics, China, to rape during the occupation of Germany. Should be [[WP:HARDBLOCK|hardblocked]] as his previous IP [[Special:Contributions/92.236.36.173|92.236.36.173]] [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 21:30, 11 December 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *Hardblocked 6 months. Closing.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:33, 11 December 2015 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===01 January 2016===<br /> <br /> <br /> ;Suspected sockpuppets<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=HeichtiSmech}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> [[User:HeichtiSmech|HeichtiSmech]] restores[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=696422432] the edit by WorldCreaterFighter sock ConspiracyThinkerPeople at [[Rape during the occupation of Germany]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=693816490&amp;oldid=692966157] [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 00:43, 1 January 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *{{Confirmed}}, blocked, tagged. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 00:58, 1 January 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> <br /> ===01 January 2016===<br /> <br /> <br /> ;Suspected sockpuppets<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Mvarle13}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=Ms02090209}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=ChowChowWong}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=Dan Capoccia}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=125.24.72.6}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> [[User:Mvarle13|Mvarle13]] and [[User:Ms02090209|Ms02090209]] are similar [[WP:SPASOCK|SPA socks]] editing [[Ainu people]], just like [[User:ConspiracyThinkerPeople|ConspiracyThinkerPeople]], [[User:HeichtiSmech|HeichtiSmech]] and [[WP:IPSOCK|IP sock]] [[User:77.98.238.98|77.98.238.98]]. [[User:ChowChowWong|ChowChowWong]] makes similar edits like [[User:92.236.36.173|92.236.36.173]] and [[User:Spiritclaymore|Spiritclaymore]] to [[Taishanese people]]. [[User:Dan Capoccia|Dan Capoccia]] restores edits by various WorldCreaterFighter socks at Ainu people. [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 01:26, 1 January 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> :Except for one edit on Korea, all of Dan' Capoccia's edits have been to restore sockpuppet edits. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 10:07, 4 January 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *The following accounts are {{likely}} to each other and to {{user|HeichtiSmech}}:<br /> :{{checkuser|1=ChowChowWong}}<br /> :{{checkuser|1=Dan Capoccia}}<br /> *The following accounts appear to be {{unrelated}}:<br /> :Ms02090209<br /> :Mvarle13<br /> :{{nc}}. &lt;span style=&quot;font-family: Palatino;&quot;&gt; [[User:Mike V|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#151B54&quot;&gt;Mike V&lt;/b&gt;]] • [[User_talk:Mike V|&lt;b style=&quot;color:#C16C16&quot;&gt;Talk&lt;/b&gt;]]&lt;/span&gt; 00:26, 7 January 2016 (UTC)<br /> *{{user|ChowChowWong}} and {{user|Dan Capoccia}} have been tagged and blocked indef. The IP has been blocked for two weeks for block evasion by Doug Weller. No action taken towards other accounts. Closing case now. [[User:Mark Arsten|Mark Arsten]] ([[User talk:Mark Arsten|talk]]) 00:36, 7 January 2016 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===10 February 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=Kumasojin 熊襲}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=일성강}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=X Aterui x}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=93.137.139.156}}<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=Kumasojin%20%E7%86%8A%E8%A5%B2 User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Primarily for the user X Aterui x, as the 1st 2 are already confirmed as socks; the ip sock evidence is much weaker. The user edits on articles related to Turkey, Ryukyu/Okinawa, and Korea/Japan. The user appears to be the same as this Quora profile [https://www.quora.com/profile/Il-Sung-Kang-%EC%9D%BC%EC%84%B1%EA%B0%95] with the same name, who repeats many similar statements and shares the exact same beliefs as what the user has edited on Wikipedia. Th primary evidence for adding X Aterui x is this edit[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J%C5%8Dmon_period&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=764215100], which repeats these edits [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J%C5%8Dmon_period&amp;diff=754038788&amp;oldid=749832104] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J%C5%8Dmon_period&amp;diff=747446389&amp;oldid=744137333] on Jomon period by Kumasojin 熊襲. The user removes &quot;less than&quot; and replaces with &quot;about&quot;, and adds erroneous, highly inflated percentages. X Aterui x also uses the exact same reference above that is also found in another Kumasojin edit on Turanism ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turanism&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=753877615]. X Aterui x makes an edit on Taiwan independence movement here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taiwan_independence_movement&amp;diff=764217372&amp;oldid=758301631] that is very similar to a statement made here by 일성강 on Quora here [https://www.quora.com/Are-Japanese-nationalists-shamelessly-diverting-its-war-crimes-like-comfort-women-by-focusing-on-the-Armenian-Genocide-and-post-hate-against-Korea/answer/Il-Sung-Kang-%EC%9D%BC%EC%84%B1%EA%B0%95] &quot;For Japanese .... So they Support a free Taiwan, a free tibet and mostly all southeast-asian nations against the peoples republic of China.&quot;. The IP editor also repeats the erroneous genetic percentage inflation for Jomon here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Japanese_Paleolithic&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=764102106] and also made edits in articles related to Okinawa/Ryukyu. [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 17:23, 10 February 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *{{Noping|X Aterui x}} is {{likely}} a sock of {{User|Kumasojin 熊襲}}. {{nc}}--[[User:Ponyo|&lt;font color=&quot;Navy&quot;&gt;Jezebel's '''Ponyo'''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Ponyo|&lt;font color=&quot;Navy&quot;&gt;''bons mots''&lt;/font&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 21:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)<br /> *Sock indeffed and tagged, IP is stale. Case closed. '''[[User:Vanjagenije|&lt;font color=&quot;008B8B&quot;&gt;Vanjagenije&lt;/font&gt;]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|&lt;font color=&quot;F4A460&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/font&gt;]]''' 19:25, 18 March 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===06 April 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=NonoHIDE98}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=Jinjin555}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=90.146.213.80}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.68.156}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.68.126}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.68.123}}<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=NonoHIDE98 User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Repetitive editing of adding irrelevant genetic studies to a linguistic/archaeological subsection and unsourced allegations that Koreans are from Chinese.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Koreans&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=768274066][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Koreans&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=771573100&amp;oldid=770278956][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Koreans&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=773826966&amp;oldid=773770625][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Koreans&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=773953997&amp;oldid=773930998]<br /> <br /> Alleging that a Korean historical figure is Han Chinese.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wiman_Joseon&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=771571647][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wiman_Joseon&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=772934375]<br /> <br /> Opposition against Altaic theory.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Altaic_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=754857771][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryukyuan_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=765228321] [[User:Veritas et aequitas Korea|Veritas et aequitas Korea]] ([[User talk:Veritas et aequitas Korea|talk]]) 06:56, 6 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> There is a common emphasis of relating Koreans to Chinese and distancing Koreans from others. &lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;&lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Veritas et aequitas Korea|Veritas et aequitas Korea]] ([[User talk:Veritas et aequitas Korea#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Veritas et aequitas Korea|contribs]]) 07:13, 6 April 2017 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *Indeffed sock, blocked master two weeks and hardblocking 213.162.68.0/24 for a year. He has been prolific in hopping those IPs as seen [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?limit=300&amp;title=Special%3AContributions&amp;contribs=user&amp;target=213.162.68.*&amp;namespace=&amp;tagfilter=&amp;year=2017&amp;month=-1 here]. Closing. &lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 22:36, 20 April 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===22 May 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> <br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.72.156}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.72.188}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.72.234}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.72.234}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=212.95.8.249}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=212.95.7.203}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.72.160}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=212.95.7.195}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=212.95.7.193}}<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=NonoHIDE98 User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Biased editing and edit warring in a broad spectrum of Korean topics, usually with the intention of distorting origins of Korean culture and language from what seems to be a Chinese nationalistic point of view.<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...did=781019065]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...did=781183125]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...did=781281838]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...did=781459938]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...did=778175335]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...did=780005740]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...did=778527771]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...did=778004740] [[User:제승원|제승원]] ([[User talk:제승원|talk]]) 03:35, 22 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> Are you serious. I am not the person that is violating wikipedia rules or delete sourced content that do not fit my worldview. If you would look close, i never support any chinese claims. Chinese would claim koreans as chinese...<br /> <br /> For example: [[Koreans]]<br /> You deleted several times the newest researches of korean-origin, and get reverted from mostly all other users.<br /> <br /> The source clearly say:<br /> &quot;Koreans are the descendants or an admixture of the ancient people who settled the Korean Peninsula, often said to be Siberian,[10][11] paleo-Asian[12] or proto-Dravidian[13] tribes.&quot;<br /> <br /> &quot;Studies of polymorphisms in the human Y-chromosome have so far produced evidence to suggest that the Korean people have a long history as a distinct, mostly endogamous ethnic group, with successive waves of people moving to the peninsula and three major Y-chromosome haplogroups.[20] A recent study made by the Ulsan National Institute of Science and Technology (UNIST) and international research teams from the UK, Russia and Germany in 2017 indicates that modern Koreans are descendants of peoples from today's Russian Far East and Southern Asia over 13,000-7,000 years ago, with closer genetic connection to people from Southeast Asia,[21] especially with Taiwanese and native Vietnamese groups.[22] The research team said that the Ulchi people have a genetic structure which is the closest to modern Koreans.[21] Bhak Jong-hwa who is a professor in the biomedical engineering department at the Ulsan National Institute of Science and Technology Genome Research Foundation said that Koreans were formed from a pre-existing Northern Mongoloid group, a Southern Mongoloid group that went north and an additional Southern Mongoloid group. Bhak also said that Koreans were formed from the admixture of hunter-gatherers on the peninsula and agricultural Southern Mongoloids from Vietnam who went through China.[23] The reference population for Koreans used in Geno 2.0 Next Generation is 94% Eastern Asia and 5% Southeast Asia &amp; Oceania.[24]&quot;<br /> <br /> Or the infobox(also included from another user) say: admixture in modern koreans:<br /> 48% north east and and 52% Southeast Asian.<br /> <br /> (!! The researches are from a korean university in ulsan, a university in hawai'i and a english-german-russian research team. Nothing chink)<br /> <br /> About haplogroup O2B/O-M176: the siurce say: <br /> Indonesians: 0.194 36 M176(x47z)=6<br /> 47z=1 Jin 2009 (=~20%) &lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt;&lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/212.95.8.219|212.95.8.219]] ([[User talk:212.95.8.219#top|talk]]) 07:16, 22 May 2017 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> Also in the hanbok article, I deleted out the Chinese claim. I included only the well sourced iranian/scythian influence on korea. Also from a korean source. Even the former president park is mentioned in the source where she speaks about the connections between the crowns of silla and iranian crowns in today Afghanistan.<br /> <br /> So what is your problem you ultra-nationalistic korean racist?<br /> <br /> Altaic theory is discredited if you haven't heard that. Welcome in 2017!<br /> <br /> And i am btw. half japanese half european.[[Special:Contributions/212.95.8.219|212.95.8.219]] ([[User talk:212.95.8.219|talk]]) 07:11, 22 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> We don't publicly disclose the IP(s) of named accounts. CU declined.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 06:22, 22 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> *No one's edited in over a month, closing. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 02:57, 30 June 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===15 June 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=DragoniteLeopard}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> *[[China]]: Master[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=609125855&amp;diff=prev] Sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=771432341&amp;diff=prev]<br /> *[[Wartime sexual violence]]: Master[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=693832237&amp;diff=prev] Sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=774801726&amp;diff=prev]<br /> *[[Indian Americans]]: Master[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=669768612&amp;diff=prev][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=670846315&amp;diff=prev] Sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=763035938&amp;diff=prev]<br /> *[[Tajiks of Xinjiang]]: Master[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=670847539&amp;diff=prev] Sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=771705674&amp;diff=prev]<br /> *[[Qing dynasty]]: Master[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=562727125&amp;diff=prev] Sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=771705230&amp;diff=prev]<br /> *[[Ottoman Empire]]: Master[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=617076900&amp;diff=prev] Sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=768358745&amp;diff=prev]<br /> <br /> Requesting [[WP:CheckUser|CheckUser]] to find [[WP:SLEEPER|sleepers]]. [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 10:30, 15 June 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> The case is {{IPstale}}. CU declined.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 13:01, 15 June 2017 (UTC)<br /> *Indeffing and closing. &lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 01:18, 19 July 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===05 August 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=KnowledgeAndPeace}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=77.100.234.159}}<br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Major overlap in edits between KnowledgeAndPeace, WorldCreaterFighter, and past socks like DragoniteLeopard:<br /> *[[Cantonese people]] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=775328824&amp;oldid=774111943], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=779053748&amp;oldid=778820487], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=793983679&amp;oldid=793181427]<br /> *[[Miscegenation]] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miscegenation&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=791469265&amp;oldid=790196593], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miscegenation&amp;diff=793626157&amp;oldid=793598931], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miscegenation&amp;diff=646312397&amp;oldid=645365133]<br /> *[[Taishanese people]] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taishanese_people&amp;diff=765929670&amp;oldid=764712560], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taishanese_people&amp;diff=793984459&amp;oldid=790598316]<br /> *[[Ryukyuan people]] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryukyuan_people&amp;diff=776624644&amp;oldid=776619678], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ryukyuan_people&amp;diff=793982007&amp;oldid=793865279]<br /> *[[Interracial marriage]] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interracial_marriage&amp;diff=764940513&amp;oldid=764940192], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Interracial_marriage&amp;diff=791467884&amp;oldid=791465932]<br /> *[[Donghu people]] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donghu_people&amp;diff=574291454&amp;oldid=566584172], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Donghu_people&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=793807413&amp;oldid=790021515]<br /> <br /> IP signed as KnowledgeAndPeace: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ryukyuan_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=793999912]. KnowledgeAndPeace restores IP's edits ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=791219010&amp;oldid=790750629], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=793180060&amp;oldid=791219755])<br /> <br /> DUCK quacks are getting deafening.<br /> <br /> Requesting CU for the account, not the IP [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 22:41, 5 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Been a few days and no admin comments yet. [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 18:15, 8 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{Re|Courcelles}} the previous sock account mentioned here {{user links|DragoniteLeopard}} was reported here back in June. I thought less that two months was within the window before &quot;staleness&quot;. [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 06:18, 11 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *From a checkuser standpoint, this case is {{IPstale}}. I've got nothing to compare with the listed sock. [[User:Courcelles|Courcelles]] ([[User talk:Courcelles|talk]]) 15:42, 10 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> *{{u|EvergreenFir}} it is 90 days data retention based on their ''last edit date'' which in this case was 5-12. The account in the archive is indeed stale now. I've hardblocked the IP for six months and indeffed the sock account. Closing. &lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:45, 11 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===31 August 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=WorkingCatDog123}}<br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Editing the same articles ([[Kitchee SC]], [[Cantonese people]]) as sock {{U|KnowledgeAndPeace}}, similar badly written voluminous and argumentative edit summaries, simiar wanton reverting &lt;small&gt;[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub style=&quot;margin-left:-2.0ex;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]&lt;/sub&gt; 05:54, 31 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> I too was keeping an eye on this user thinking they might be a sock. Note the gap between account creation and first edit. [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 06:28, 31 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> <br /> {{User:Sro23/ClerkAtWork}}<br /> *{{awaitingadmin}} - Note how [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kitchee_SC&amp;diff=794620492&amp;oldid=794467452 this edit] compared to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kitchee_SC&amp;diff=797187929&amp;oldid=794816202 this one], it's nearly identical. Please indef the sockpuppet. [[User:Sro23|Sro23]] ([[User talk:Sro23|talk]]) 16:08, 31 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> *{{bnt}}. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:55, 31 August 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===24 September 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=CantoneseMaster}}<br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Editing on ethnicity pages, specifically on lists of notable people. <br /> <br /> Edited on entry a previous sock edited ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taishanese_people&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=794278849&amp;oldid=790598316] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taishanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=794278849]). User went straight to [[Cantonese people]] where many socks have edited before (see page history).<br /> <br /> Requesting CU for sleeper check. User has many socks in record [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 17:22, 24 September 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> It's been over a week. Can someone kindly attend to this? [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 04:54, 2 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *Following are {{confirmed}}, {{bnt}}:<br /> :*{{checkuser|LemanderOrange}}<br /> :*{{checkuser|CantoneseMaster}}<br /> :*{{checkuser|DrKoraKora}}<br /> :*{{checkuser|InternationalAffairs3}}<br /> :*{{checkuser|TurkicDelight}}<br /> :*{{checkuser|Robela2}}<br /> :*{{checkuser|WuyueDNApeople}}<br /> :&lt;b&gt;[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]&lt;/b&gt; ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 10:04, 7 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===12 October 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=SushigirlJessice}}<br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Past sock: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=803899349&amp;oldid=803899282]<br /> SushigirlJessice: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=805003664&amp;oldid=804990887]<br /> <br /> Brand new account went straight to [[Cantonese people]], a long-term target of the sockmaster [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 17:53, 12 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *The following accounts are {{confirmed}} to each other:<br /> **{{checkuser|1=SushigirlJessice}}<br /> **{{checkuser|1=Adygeheipeople}}<br /> **{{checkuser|1=Pinoy123xaaa}}<br /> **{{checkuser|1=Deccodabo}}<br /> **{{checkuser|1=BoxRec9}}<br /> *{{Inconclusive}} with respect to the master. {{behav}} ~ [[User:BU Rob13|&lt;b&gt;Rob&lt;/b&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;sub&gt;13&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]&lt;sup style=&quot;margin-left:-1.0ex;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 04:55, 13 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> *SushigirlJessice's behavior is pretty telling, and the sleepers overlap with previous socks. {{bnt}}. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:07, 13 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===19 October 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=GoguryeoHistorian}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=212.95.8.185}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=90.146.213.80}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=GoguryeoHistorian User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> The account was created at [[Special:Log/GoguryeoHistorian|13:58, 17 October 2017]], almost immediately started edit-warring at [[South Korea–Turkey relations]] ([[Special:Diff/805821395|21:05, 17 October 2017]]). I went to the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_Korea–Turkey_relations&amp;action=history revision history] and started finding suspicious overlaps (Korean POV editing) with these two Austrian IP addresses ([http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users=GoguryeoHistorian&amp;users=212.95.8.185&amp;users=90.146.213.80&amp;startdate=&amp;enddate=&amp;ns=&amp;server=enwiki Editor Interaction Analyser]). I am hoping a clerk would take a look at this to see if it calls for a CU. [[User:Alex Shih|Alex Shih]][[User talk:Alex Shih|&lt;sup&gt;Talk&lt;/sup&gt;]] 18:57, 19 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> &quot;GoguryeoHistorian&quot; is possibly another sockpuppet of the longtime Austria-IP pro-Austronesian anti-Turan anti-Altaic nationalist. <br /> <br /> GoguryeoHistorian suddenly appeared on South Korea-Turkey relations with the same motivation as 212.95.8.185<br /> <br /> These are his suspected accounts that I know of. There are most likely more.<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/213.162.68.151]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/212.95.8.185]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/90.146.213.80]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/%EC%9D%BC%EC%84%B1%EA%B0%95]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kumasojin_%E7%86%8A%E8%A5%B2]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Kumasojin_%E7%86%8A%E8%A5%B2/Archive]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/NonoHIDE98/Archive]<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Satoshi_Kondo]<br /> <br /> <br /> And there are many more one-time use IPs such as 212.95.8.* and other accounts. I don't think diffs are necessary because his posting style and preoccupations are so focused and obvious that scanning his post history makes it obvious. Just taking a look at the post histories will show really obvious QUACKING.<br /> <br /> -Posts from Austria, sometimes from neighboring countries. Will frequently use Austria T-mobile to phonepost.<br /> <br /> -Extreme preoccupation and bias of Austronesian/Dravidian.<br /> <br /> -Extreme preoccupation and animosity of Turanism, Turkey, and Altaic.<br /> <br /> -Extreme preoccupation with distancing Japanese and Korean language and race away from Altaics and toward Austronesian.<br /> <br /> -Usually makes edits to languages and history.<br /> <br /> -Claims to be Japanese or Korean or both but is actually neither.<br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/213.162.68.151] &lt;!-- Template:Unsigned IP --&gt;&lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/64.134.36.56|64.134.36.56]] ([[User talk:64.134.36.56#top|talk]]) 21:33, 19 October 2017 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> I concur with the user above. See here: [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/213.162.72.246]]<br /> Probably other sockpuppets used by this ethno-POV account on a mission. Regards [[User:Akocsg|Akocsg]] ([[User talk:Akocsg|talk]]) 21:43, 19 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *These IPs are clearly the same as GoguryeoHistorian, and all of them have engaged in POV-pushing, edit-warring, and incivility across multiple pages. I have thus blocked GoguryeoHistorian for 1 week. Closing. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 00:20, 20 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> *{{adminnote}} Block extended to 2 weeks for using {{user|212.95.8.136}} and {{user|212.95.8.240}} for [[WP:EVADE|block evasion]]. 212.95.8.128/25 {{Rblock}}. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:14, 21 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> *{{clerknote}} As per {{u|Berean Hunter}} [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Berean_Hunter&amp;diff=806395111&amp;oldid=806376088 here]:<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Satoshi Kondo}} is {{tallyho}} from {{checkuser|1=GoguryeoHistorian}}, who is {{confirmed}} as WorldCreaterFighter<br /> <br /> * {{tallyho}} from WorldCreaterFighter:<br /> ** {{checkuser|1=Verakhu}}<br /> ** {{checkuser|1=OrenburgNative}}<br /> ** {{checkuser|1=MasterChai}}<br /> ** {{checkuser|1=PeopleTaking11}}<br /> ** {{checkuser|1=WayneMacleod1}}<br /> ** {{checkuser|1=DrKoraKora}}<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Lynch Kevin de León}} is {{likely}} to WorldCreaterFighter.<br /> <br /> :*Cases merged, blocks and tags dished out. We're not done here, so placing this {{onhold}}. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 19:30, 21 October 2017 (UTC)<br /> *Closing so we can archive this then do a histmerge, as suggested by {{u|Berean Hunter}}. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 18:59, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===24 November 2017===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> <br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.72.238}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.72.210}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=213.162.72.186}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=80.243.173.100}}<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> The dispute started at [[Hanbok]], then eventually [[Pazyryk culture]]. In a dispute over [[Hanbok]] this IP user kept calling me a cockroach in Japanese and other various ad hominem attacks[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hanbok&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=811562681][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hanbok&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=811562887][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hanbok&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=811563390][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hanbok&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=811563845][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hanbok&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=811568280] and made no substantive effort to talk over it in the discussion page.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AHanbok&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=811563706&amp;oldid=811563175] As soon as 213.162.72.238 got banned, other IPs within the 213.162.72.* range was used to evade the block and continue editing [[Pazyryk culture]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pazyryk_culture&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=811855920&amp;oldid=811819472][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pazyryk_culture&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=811570350&amp;oldid=811569806] Currently, [[Hanbok]] is locked in a version in his favor. [[User:VeryGoodBoy|VeryGoodBoy]] ([[User talk:VeryGoodBoy|talk]]) 21:29, 24 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> These IPs are consistent with other socks and IPs, that they usually engage in Turckic/Korean/Japanese/Chinese issues with a determined POV. [[User:VeryGoodBoy|VeryGoodBoy]] ([[User talk:VeryGoodBoy|talk]]) 21:44, 24 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> If you see the investigation archive, the 213.162.* IP range has already been pointed out as IP socks of this user. [[User:VeryGoodBoy|VeryGoodBoy]] ([[User talk:VeryGoodBoy|talk]]) 21:48, 24 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> I added 80.243.173.100. It began reverting same articles as soon as 213.162.72.* got banned. WHOIS indicates same geographical locality. [[User:VeryGoodBoy|VeryGoodBoy]] ([[User talk:VeryGoodBoy|talk]]) 14:11, 26 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> I have already ask to you to use the talk. The deleted sentence is not in english and make no sense. Desbite that my edits are all sourced and accepted. But you keep deleting them or pushing your strange opinion. You are the one using POV. To say that &quot;Koreans&quot; lived at the altai mountains and that koreans was the counterpart of the Scythians is unhistorical POV. also i have asked you many times to use the TALKPAGE. But you ignore it. I also showed you the source that say the opposite of you claim. It is stated that the mummy found has caucasoid features and is believed to be of Tocharian or Scythian origin. And NO ONE support a &quot;korean&quot; origin of this mummy. And to your claim I am no sock. I use a mobile IP, that change by move and by login into the net. But i quess it is useless to explain this to a korean pov nationalist. You koreansentry members are a shame for asians and humanity. Please admins keep a watch on these korean nationalist. There are alrew many who are blocked. Mostly based in the USA or australia. CHECK HIS EDIT HISTORY AND HIS BLOCK LOG. CHECK THE OTHER KOREAN BLOCKED USERS. CHECK MY EDITS CAREFULLY AND SHOW ME WHERE I VANDALIZED OR EDITED WRONG.ϜϓſϞ[[Special:Contributions/213.162.72.163|213.162.72.163]] ([[User talk:213.162.72.163|talk]]) 22:15, 24 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *{{Requestandendorse}} - Can I hardblock {{CheckIP|213.162.72.128/25}}, and if so, for how long? Thanks, [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 22:34, 24 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> ::{{u|GeneralizationsAreBad}} Please do so, and quickly. It's becoming a pain to keep up with, and revert their edits. [[User:Boomer Vial|Boomer Vial]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:Boomer Vial|&lt;span style=&quot;color: darkgreen;&quot;&gt;Holla! We gonna ball!&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:49, 26 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> :::{{re|GeneralizationsAreBad}} The collateral is fairly low – go for it. ~ [[User:BU Rob13|&lt;b&gt;Rob&lt;/b&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;sub&gt;13&lt;/sub&gt;&lt;/small&gt;]]&lt;sup style=&quot;margin-left:-1.0ex;&quot;&gt;[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:34, 26 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> *{{Rblock}}, closing. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:50, 26 November 2017 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===02 February 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=John breese}}<br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Past socks edit on East Asian ethnicities with lists of notable people. Check user would be appreciated with the data aren't too stale given this user's history of socking . Example edits [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=794981083] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=794984082] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taishanese_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=794272632] [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 04:06, 2 February 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> Okay, give me until Monday please. I'll try to put stuff together. [[User:EvergreenFir|'''&lt;span style=&quot;color:#8b00ff;&quot;&gt;Eve&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#6528c2;&quot;&gt;rgr&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#3f5184;&quot;&gt;een&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#197947;&quot;&gt;Fir&lt;/span&gt;''']] [[User talk:EvergreenFir|(talk)]] 03:11, 4 February 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *{{Decline}} - Everything in the archives looks {{IPstale}}, sorry. {{behav}}. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 21:57, 3 February 2018 (UTC)<br /> *Evidence is insufficient. Closing without action. [[User:Sro23|Sro23]] ([[User talk:Sro23|talk]]) 17:10, 10 February 2018 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===21 February 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=86.56.207.16}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> I know this user as [[User:Kumasojin 熊襲]]. It says that this sock is now listed under this new name, so I'm filling it here. This user (Kumasojin variant) likes to edit around Korean and Japanese languages/ethnicity topics and supports fringe genetic theories. This user's loves to use Alexander Vovin to support his claims. Previous sock refs [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Koreanic_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=754435050]; here's the IP sock's vovin refs[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Koreans&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=826561756][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yayoi_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=826529011][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Austroasiatic_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=826528853][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Classification_of_the_Japonic_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=826528615]. Strongly anti-Altaic. Previous socks: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kikai_language&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=764032101][] Current IP sock [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Koreanic_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=823366105]. Makes the same exact changes as a previous sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jin_(Korean_state)&amp;diff=805283419&amp;oldid=798641108] here[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jin_(Korean_state)&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=822771654]. Constantly links Gaya to Japonic vs Korea, previous sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gaya_confederacy&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=795450647] and IP[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gaya_confederacy&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=795450647]. I could go on and on, but this is clearly the same banned sockpuppet editor. [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 11:05, 21 February 2018 (UTC) [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 11:05, 21 February 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *{{IPblocked}}. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 19:09, 21 February 2018 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ===22 February 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=Nam Việt 18}}<br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Adding fringe genetic theories, restoring edits of blocked socking IP to [[Cantonese people]] &lt;small&gt;[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub style=&quot;margin-left:-2.0ex;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]&lt;/sub&gt; 16:03, 22 February 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *Already blocked, closing. &lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;&lt;small class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:BU Rob13|BU Rob13]] ([[User talk:BU Rob13#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/BU Rob13|contribs]]) 18:30, February 22, 2018 (UTC)&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===04 March 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=77.100.234.159}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report] &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> *[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]<br /> <br /> Same profile of pretending to be a certain ethnicity, obsession with fringe genetics, interest in Japan/Korea topics, anti-Altaic, obsession with tracing the origins of the Jomon and Ainu, and oddly obsessed with the article Kitchee SC: IP[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kitchee_SC&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=826653066], previous socks[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kitchee_SC&amp;diff=797189843&amp;oldid=797188107][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kitchee_SC&amp;diff=794620828&amp;oldid=794620492]. This is the smoking gun.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ryukyuan_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=793999912][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ryukyuan_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=793999991#Accused_of_disrupting_edits_for_being_more_accurate] The IP sock edits and changes the signature date, as a continuation of sock [[User:KnowledgeAndPeace]]'s arguments on the talk page here[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ryukyuan_people&amp;diff=793981567&amp;oldid=776928040]<br /> , just after the user was banned. Makes almost the same edit here with the exact same source and source format (a careful look at the source format should make it very clear); with the IP[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Classification_of_the_Japonic_languages&amp;diff=825471404&amp;oldid=825190259], with sock user [[User:KnowledgeAndPeace]] here[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Classification_of_the_Japonic_languages&amp;diff=792557656&amp;oldid=791303749]. Also removes the same info on Altaic languages here as the IP[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Altaic_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=826320115] and here as the sock.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Altaic_languages&amp;diff=790407403&amp;oldid=789888074] [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 08:32, 4 March 2018 (UTC) [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 08:32, 4 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> This is an already once blocked IP used by this editor; see the editing history &gt; 6 months ago, block log, and the archive.--&lt;small&gt;[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]&lt;/small&gt;&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]&lt;/sup&gt;&lt;sub style=&quot;margin-left:-2.0ex;&quot;&gt;[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]&lt;/sub&gt; 09:20, 4 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> :Hmm, I suspect this user is using this old, known IP sock to edit war with himself to legitimize this new IP editor 121.214.36.82 who also just popped up. Their writing style is exactly the same and they argue the same way. This new IP 121.214.36.82 also likes to make absurd attacks like this [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dravido-Korean_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=828500301] which is typical for this suckpuppet editor; of course, this IP also uses it as an opportunity to sneak in fringe genetic theories into another article on Wikipedia. Also makes odd claims about Chinese propaganda on Wikipedia[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chen_Yongqiang_(painter)&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=828499292], similar to ones made by the sockpuppet here.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nam_Vi%E1%BB%87t_18&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=827079857] [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 11:17, 4 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *Already blocked, closing. &lt;b&gt;[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]&lt;/b&gt; ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 03:54, 5 March 2018 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===17 May 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=193.171.130.114}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=86.56.207.16}} <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> Restores[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wucheng_culture&amp;diff=841657414&amp;oldid=827076568] the exact same edit made multiple times by various sockpuppets of this sockmaster on this page: previous sock edits on this page by multiple confirmed socks socks[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wucheng_culture&amp;diff=827064907&amp;oldid=827064008], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wucheng_culture&amp;diff=826524392&amp;oldid=826522399]. Makes the exact same edit here[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Haplogroup_DE&amp;diff=841336799&amp;oldid=839866926] as a previous confirmed IP sock here[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Haplogroup_DE&amp;diff=822857070&amp;oldid=822619645]. Has the same range of editing interests as Kumasojin/WorldCreationFighter. It's highly unusual for this IP editor with limited edits to have such a huge overlap of editing on similar articles, ranging from rather disparate topics like [[Wucheng culture]] (shown above), [[South Korea–Turkey relations]] (by the IP sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_Korea%E2%80%93Turkey_relations&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=823435609]; previous socks [[User:GoguryeoHistorian]][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_Korea%E2%80%93Turkey_relations&amp;diff=806095715&amp;oldid=806095460)] (only showing one of many), [[User:일성강]][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=South_Korea%E2%80%93Turkey_relations&amp;diff=750022329&amp;oldid=749994992] to [[Haplogroup DE]], [[Haplogroup D-M174]], [[Haplogroup D-M55]], [[Japonic languages]], [[Classification of the Japonic languages]] and many more - the overlap is pretty obvious and clear, and it's not surprising since the IP sock is editing the same type of topics favored by Kumasojin/WorldCreationFighter - articles related to Japan, the Ryukyu Islands, Jomon, Korea, and fringe genetics. This socks's dislike of the Altaic theory, especially when linked to Japanese, is also reflected by this IP editor here[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sprachbund&amp;diff=823100321&amp;oldid=809689834], while a previous sock also edited the same article to support this fringe theory here trying to link Japanese elsewhere[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sprachbund&amp;diff=824495455&amp;oldid=823245875]. [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 06:28, 17 May 2018 (UTC) [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 06:28, 17 May 2018 (UTC)<br /> :This section is for 86.56.207.16. This IP was already caught once in the past for being a confirmed sock, and it's back again making the same type of edits as the previous sockmaster; this sock returned the day that the previous ban was lifted. I suggest a longer ban for this IP since this sock is so persistent. Gratuitously assigning modern concepts of race/nationality to the past here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=L%E1%BA%A1c_Vi%E1%BB%87t&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=842413349]; makes pretty much the same edit with the same source here[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Austroasiatic_languages&amp;diff=843076812&amp;oldid=843009151], such as this edit by a previous confirmed sock [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Austroasiatic_languages&amp;diff=827064326&amp;oldid=827023340] and sock IP [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Austroasiatic_languages&amp;diff=826682223&amp;oldid=826613102][[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 12:04, 28 May 2018 (UTC)<br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *The 193 IP was inactive for a few weeks following the creation of this request, so although I reverted some edits by the IP, I did not bother to block it. However, it has returned to editing in the same pattern over the past few days, so further action may be warranted. [[User:Dekimasu|Dekimasu]]&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Dekimasu|よ!]]&lt;/small&gt; 01:12, 19 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> * {{u|NinjaRobotPirate}} has blocked 86.56.207.16 for 6 months. {{u|Dekimasu}} has blocked 193.171.130.114 for 1 week. In view of the amount of time over which this IP address has been involved in this matter, I would have blocked for longer, but we'll see how it goes. I don't see that there's anything else to be done, so I'm closing this investigation. &lt;small&gt;''The editor who uses the pseudonym''&lt;/small&gt; &quot;[[User:JamesBWatson|JamesBWatson]]&quot; ([[User talk:JamesBWatson#top|talk]]) 13:45, 21 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> :*I have reblocked the IP for 3 months because similar behavior resumed after expiration of the shorter block. [[User:Dekimasu|Dekimasu]]&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Dekimasu|よ!]]&lt;/small&gt; 07:43, 27 June 2018 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===18 September 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Dddcg}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> Same interest in fringe linguistics and falsification of sources to justify ethno-nationalist POV editing. This variation is mostly editing around Korean topics; edits the same topics as various sockpuppets of WorldCreationFighter, and also goes back to Vovin to justify his questionable linguistic claims.<br /> :1.This edit was made by an acknowledged/now banned IP sock[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khitan_language&amp;diff=845422180&amp;oldid=845093984] in the Khitan language article, which is pretty much repeated by DDdcg here[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Goguryeo_language&amp;diff=849083310&amp;oldid=849082420] in the Goguryeo language article. Uses the exact same Vovin source with similar formatting and phrasing, to justify his fringe claims linking Goguryeo/Korean to Khitan.<br /> :2.This disingenious edit with misleading edit summary (the user was actually restoring previous sockpuppet editing) on Paleosiberian language [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paleosiberian_languages&amp;diff=848913336&amp;oldid=847430260] is also very similar to a sockpuppet edit here [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paleosiberian_languages&amp;diff=748048293&amp;oldid=735449078] by a previous sockpuppet of this user, with the exact same source (Vovin again). [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 12:40, 18 September 2018 (UTC) [[User:Fraenir|Fraenir]] ([[User talk:Fraenir|talk]]) 12:40, 18 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *Yes, this does look like him, especially when running the EIU. {{bnt}}. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:00, 18 September 2018 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===26 October 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> See below. [[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 19:24, 26 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *The following accounts are {{confirmed}} to each other and {{likely}} to previous socks:<br /> **{{checkuser|AmurTiger18}}<br /> **{{checkuser|HainanTai}}<br /> **{{checkuser|TAMILinJAPAN}}<br /> **{{checkuser|AustronesianTaiwan}}<br /> **{{checkuser|Lord Huynh}}<br /> **{{checkuser|HlaaluTW}}<br /> *{{checkuser|KuroZetsu oho}} is {{likely}} to the above group.<br /> *{{bnt}}.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 19:25, 26 October 2018 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===04 December 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Moalli}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> User ''[[User:AmurTiger18|AmurTiger18]]'' (a confirmed sock of ''[[User:WorldCreaterFighter|WorldCreaterFighter]]'' insisted on removing a sourced section in the article [[Cantonese]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese&amp;diff=864952504&amp;oldid=864015230], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cantonese#Substrate]. After this user is blocked, user ''[[User:Moalli|Moalli]]'' continues to carry on exactly the same behavior [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese&amp;diff=871903555&amp;oldid=871840370], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese&amp;diff=871812793&amp;oldid=871475584], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese&amp;diff=870086842&amp;oldid=869954820], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese&amp;diff=869931466&amp;oldid=869820565], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cantonese&amp;diff=869545382&amp;oldid=869378852], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cantonese#Page_protection?] (talk page). [[Special:Contributions/126.124.157.198|126.124.157.198]] ([[User talk:126.124.157.198|talk]]) 04:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> :Content moved from talk page. I take no opinion on the report. [[User:Sakura Cartelet|&lt;span style=&quot;color: fuchsia;&quot;&gt;Sak&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: red;&quot;&gt;ura &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: gold;&quot;&gt;Cart&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color: cyan;&quot;&gt;elet&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User_talk:Sakura Cartelet|Talk]]&lt;/sup&gt; 04:51, 4 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *The edit war is unfortunate, but I'm not sure this really fits the profile. [[User:Dekimasu|Dekimasu]]&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:Dekimasu|よ!]]&lt;/small&gt; 06:17, 4 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> *This looks unrelated; closing. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 17:34, 4 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===09 December 2018===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Erminwin}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=WorldCreaterFighter User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> After [[User:AmurTiger18|AmurTiger18]] (contribution [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nanyue&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=864951787], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baiyue&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=864947788], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baiyue&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=864910281]) and [[User:HainanTai|HainanTai]] (contribution [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vietic_languages&amp;diff=865583197&amp;oldid=865559265], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tai_peoples&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=865719286], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tai_peoples&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=865588734]), two recent sockpuppets of User ''WorldCreaterFighter'', got blocked a while ago, [[User:Erminwin|Erminwin]] suddenly appeared and made exactly the same edits and in yhe same articles as User [[User:AmurTiger18|AmurTiger18]] and [[User:HainanTai|HainanTai]], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vietic_languages&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=872444196], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tai_peoples&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=872329301], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baiyue&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=872327320], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baiyue&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=872263982]). [[Special:Contributions/119.204.41.231|119.204.41.231]] ([[User talk:119.204.41.231|talk]]) 17:17, 9 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *This appears to be a student editor, not WCF. Closing. [[User:GeneralizationsAreBad|GAB]]&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:GeneralizationsAreBad|gab]]&lt;/sup&gt; 17:50, 9 December 2018 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===23 May 2019===<br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Alexkyoung}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=193.171.130.114}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=77.100.234.159}}<br /> * {{checkip|1=80.243.173.100}}<br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;users={{urlencode:Alexkyoung}}&amp;users={{urlencode:193.171.130.114}} Editor interaction utility] • &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&amp;user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;user={{urlencode:Alexkyoung}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> * 193.171.130.114 has previously been blocked as an IP sock of WorldCreaterFighter,[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/WorldCreaterFighter/Archive#26_October_2018][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&amp;page=User%3A193.171.130.114] but that block has recently expired and the IP has resumed editing topics of interest of WorldCreaterFighter.<br /> * [[User:Alexkyoung|Alexkyoung]] is a newly created user who has made a large amount of edits to articles frequented by WorldCreaterFighter: <br /> :*[[Yangtze]]: Alexkyoung[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=891513155]; WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=825792224]<br /> :*Origins of the [[Kra–Dai languages]]: Alexkyoung[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kra%E2%80%93Dai_languages&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=894517429&amp;oldid=893945213]; WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kra%E2%80%93Dai_languages&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=825157439&amp;oldid=824786157][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kra%E2%80%93Dai_languages&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=865724306&amp;oldid=865278128]<br /> :*[[Yuezhi]]: Alexkyoung[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yuezhi&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=896395639&amp;oldid=893338788]; WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=847705847]<br /> :*[[Mongoloid]]: Alexkyoung[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=894349537]; WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=532862939][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=535329681][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=595264428][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=645434320][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mongoloid&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=805911146&amp;oldid=805418610][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=822282700]<br /> :*Racial origins of the [[Tocharians]]: Alexkyoung[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=896540786]; WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=641787897][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=642600838][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=670851254]<br /> :*Diverse origins of the [[Tocharian languages]]: Alexkyoung[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=896406087]; WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=670851254][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=764210382]<br /> :*Political [[history of Xinjiang]]: Alexkyoung[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Xinjiang&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=896689317&amp;oldid=894170007]; WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&amp;oldid=644366720]<br /> :*Racial origins of the [[Tarim mummies]]: Alexkyoung[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tarim_mummies&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=896423852&amp;oldid=894435985]; WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tarim_mummies&amp;diff=561469852&amp;oldid=557122456]<br /> :* Alexkyoung and WorldCreaterFighter combines interest in these obscure topics with interests in Asian scientists([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shiing-Shen_Chern&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=897396254][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danqi_Chen&amp;oldid=895746795][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andrew_Ng&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=892811623][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sebastian_Seung&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=891900352])([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Terence_Tao&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=659099696]) and sex-related topics.([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sexual_jealousy&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=896706388][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taoist_sexual_practices&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=892397560][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Concubinage&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=892391429])([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Human&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=599497657][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=693816490&amp;oldid=692966157][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=693832237&amp;diff=prev][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Prostitution_in_Macau&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=638211215]) <br /> * 77.100.234.159 is a previously blocked IP sock of WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&amp;page=User%3A77.100.234.159] which has resumed editing WorldCreaterFighter-topics after the block expired.<br /> * 80.243.173.100 is a previously blocked IP sock of WorldCreaterFighter[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&amp;page=User%3A80.243.173.100] which has resumed editing WorldCreaterFighter-topics after the block expired. [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] ([[User talk:Krakkos|talk]]) 18:14, 23 May 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> The accusation to Alexkyoung is wrong.<br /> <br /> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dealing_with_sock_puppets#What_is_a_sock_puppet?<br /> <br /> I had to read the above article to learn what a 'sockpuppet' is.<br /> Not only is the accusation wrong, but it is uncivil.<br /> I do not even know 'WorldCreaterFighter'.<br /> I am the only user using this account, and I am not aware of any hackers. <br /> If the moderators can tell me if my account has been hacked, that would be good for me to know.<br /> <br /> The above articles are merely a fraction of my wikipedia contributions.<br /> And some of those articles are edited by hundreds of other users, so to single me out among the crowd is discrimination.<br /> I have freedom to edit articles of my choice, especially the ones that you deem more 'obscure' because those are precisely the kinds of wikipedia articles that we need more information on to share with the rest of the world.<br /> Some of those 'Asian scientists' are actually American by nationality.<br /> Michael Hardy and David Eppstein are two other users who also make a lot of edits on articles that I contribute to.<br /> Correlation does not imply causation. <br /> <br /> I request the accuser [[User:Krakkos|Krakkos]] to apologize for their McCarthy-like accusations and conspiracy theories, especially if they know what is best for them and the greater wikipedia community.<br /> I trust the wikipedia moderators to confirm my claims and drop this allegation.<br /> <br /> --Alexkyoung<br /> <br /> *{{ping|Krakkos}} Note that checkusers will not relate IPs to accounts --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 08:58, 27 May 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> *{{checkuser|1=Alexkyoung}} appears {{Unrelated}} to WCF. {{nc}}. [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]]&amp;nbsp;[[User talk:Yunshui|&lt;sup style=&quot;font-size:90%&quot;&gt;雲&lt;/sup&gt;]][[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|&lt;sub style=&quot;font-size:90%&quot;&gt;水&lt;/sub&gt;]] 08:41, 29 May 2019 (UTC)<br /> ** With the named account unrelated and the IPs now inactive, I think it's safe to close this request. [[User:ST47|ST47]] ([[User talk:ST47|talk]]) 22:30, 24 June 2019 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===16 August 2019===<br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Masamannamasam}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=Benjamin Samasa}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;users={{urlencode:Masamannamasam}}&amp;users={{urlencode:Benjamin Samasa}} Editor interaction utility] • &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&amp;user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;user={{urlencode:Masamannamasam}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> See below. &lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:38, 16 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> Reverting his own socks. {{confirmed}}, {{bnt}}.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 02:39, 16 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> *Closing per the above. [[User:TheSandDoctor|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;&quot;&gt;The&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009933; font-weight:bold;&quot;&gt;SandDoctor&lt;/span&gt;]] &lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:TheSandDoctor|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#009933;&quot;&gt;Talk&lt;/span&gt;]]&lt;/sup&gt; 13:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===21 August 2019===<br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Kang Sung-Tae}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;users={{urlencode:Kang Sung-Tae}} Editor interaction utility] • &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&amp;user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;user={{urlencode:Kang Sung-Tae}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 19:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> {{Confirmed}} {{bnt}}--[[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 19:18, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :{{ping|Doug Weller}} Should be [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] (not creat'''o'''r). [[User:ST47|ST47]] ([[User talk:ST47|talk]]) 19:31, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> :Oops, yes. I'm not sure how to fix this without deleting something. [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 20:28, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::I've done a histmerge. Ready for archiving. [[User:ST47|ST47]] ([[User talk:ST47|talk]]) 20:37, 21 August 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===08 September 2019===<br /> <br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=DerekHistorian}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=AsadalEditor}}<br /> * {{checkuser|1=Manasam98}}<br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&amp;user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> Please see this guy's edits to:<br /> <br /> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turkmens&amp;action=history<br /> <br /> His user activity closely mirrors Manasam98 who was banned as a sockpuppet of AsadalEditor/WorldCreatorFighter [[User:Hunan201p|Hunan201p]] ([[User talk:Hunan201p|talk]]) 20:54, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> : Evidence that I'm not a sock-puppet of AsadalEditor( Manasam98, Gyatso1), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:J%C5%8Dmon_people<br /> :I'm the one who asked for AsadalEditor sockpuppet to get banned and made a thread to expose his sockpuppet and the moderator did it. This user Hunan201 deliberate removes every reference and data that mentions East Asian/East Eurasian Y-DNA or anthropologically. He did the same with [[Turkmen]], [[Hazara]], [[Cumans]], [[Eurasian (mixed ancestry)]], [[Haplogroup Q-M25]], [[Y-DNA haplogroups in populations of Central and North Asia]] even though they are well source. Even on Turkmen he deliberate goes as far to avoid mentioning the Y-DNA of Turkmen in Iran, Afghanistan because it doesn't suit his agenda ‎[[User:DerekHistorian|DerekHistorian]] ([[User talk:DerekHistorian|talk]]) 10:20, 9 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> <br /> ::DerekHistorian is AsadalEditor. He obsessively monitors articles related to the Jomon/Japanese and Central Asian genetics, with a malicious tendency to defend incorrect statements about central Asian genetics, by attempting to make them seem more East Eurasian on their paternal line than they actually are. He also does things like taddling on himself to evade bans, and he is also the author of this blog, in which he tries to muddle his responsibility for his own contributions by criticizing himself, spreading confusion:<br /> <br /> DerekHistorian restores the same content as Manasam98 (AsadalEditor):<br /> <br /> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turkmens&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=912271844<br /> <br /> <br /> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turkmens&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=914448115<br /> <br /> [[User:Hunan201p|Hunan201p]] ([[User talk:Hunan201p|talk]]) 23:47, 10 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> * &lt;s&gt;Might as well check if Hunan201p is a sockpuppet of [[User:Irantointerna]]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turkic_peoples&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=911221053 diff] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turkic_peoples&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=914749456&amp;oldid=914748789 diff]; same pov-pushing.&lt;/s&gt; {{yo|Wario-Man}} any thoughts here? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 18:43, 9 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> ::At second thought: Hunan201p's addition was good; I've reinserted it. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;]] 19:27, 9 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> {{ping|Hunan201p}} Please provide evidence in the form of diffs. {{clerk request}} Please move this report to the correct case.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 21:19, 8 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> *Merged. [[User:Sir Sputnik|Sir Sputnik]] ([[User talk:Sir Sputnik|talk]]) 18:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> *Insufficient evidence. Closing.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 00:01, 11 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===24 September 2019===<br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=OghurBushi}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;users={{urlencode:OghurBushi}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&amp;user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;user={{urlencode:OghurBushi}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> See below. &lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 21:45, 24 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> {{confirmed}}, {{bnt}}.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 21:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===05 October 2019===<br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=Sakushain}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;users={{urlencode:Sakushain}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&amp;user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;user={{urlencode:Sakushain}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> See below. &lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:14, 5 October 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> {{confirmed}}<br /> *{{checkuser|Encyclopedia Pioneer}}<br /> *{{checkuser|ShiroEmishi}}<br /> *{{checkuser|Sakushain}}<br /> *{{checkuser|Bayan Khagan}}<br /> {{bnt}}.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 23:14, 5 October 2019 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===11 January 2020===<br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> <br /> * {{checkuser|1=MomotaniSS}}<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;users={{urlencode:MomotaniSS}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&amp;user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}&amp;user={{urlencode:MomotaniSS}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> See below. &lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 12:41, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> {{confirmed}}<br /> *{{checkuser|MomotaniSS}}<br /> *{{checkuser|MomotaniYY}}<br /> *{{checkuser|AntiTuranism1908}}<br /> *{{checkuser|TürkSamurai}}<br /> {{bnt}}&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 13:03, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> ===12 January 2020===<br /> <br /> ====Suspected sockpuppets====<br /> * {{checkuser|1=Benji887}}<br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> *'''Tools''': &lt;span class=&quot;plainlinks&quot;&gt;[https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} Editor interaction utility] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/interaction-timeline?wiki=enwiki&amp;user={{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}} Interaction Timeline] • [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/UserCompare/{{urlencode:{{SUBPAGENAME}}}}.html User compare report]&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;''Auto-generated every hour.''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> Benji887 started editing today in [[Jōmon people]] and added content that looks very similar to recent edits by [[User:MomotaniYY]], blocked sock of [[User:WorldCreaterFighter]], in [[Ainu people]].<br /> <br /> :MomotaniYY: &quot;Seguchi et al. 2014 presented archeologic, anthropologic and genetic evidence that the [[Jōmon people|ancestors of the Ainu]] descended from a paleolithic population in [[Southern Siberia]].&quot;[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ainu_people&amp;diff=934962468&amp;oldid=933161416] (above Line 137)<br /> :Benji887: &quot;In 2015, Japanese geneticist proposed that the proto-Jōmon originated from a paleolithic population located in [[Southern Siberia]].&quot;[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=J%C5%8Dmon_people&amp;diff=prev&amp;oldid=935414963]<br /> –[[User:Austronesier|Austronesier]] ([[User talk:Austronesier|talk]]) 13:00, 12 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Comments by other users&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> &lt;small&gt;''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''&lt;/small&gt;<br /> <br /> ====&lt;big&gt;Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments&lt;/big&gt;====<br /> {{confirmed}}. I saw him in my watchlist before I saw this report and have just finished blocking him. He is now using proxies to try to hide his location.&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;—&amp;nbsp;[[User:Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;Berean Hunter&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk :Berean Hunter|&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:High Tower Text;color:#0000ff;font-weight:900;&quot;&gt;(talk)&lt;/span&gt;]] 13:47, 12 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> *Nothing more to do. Closing. [[User:Cabayi|Cabayi]] ([[User talk:Cabayi|talk]]) 13:53, 12 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> ----&lt;!--- All comments go ABOVE this line, please. --&gt;<br /> <br /> ==20 January 2020==<br /> {{Ping|Doug Weller}} He seems to be back. <br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.66}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.42}}<br /> * {{Checkip|1=154.49.100.50}} <br /> &lt;!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts--&gt;<br /> <br /> I guess he's ip hopping? [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 17:46, 20 January 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&diff=936731029 Peopling of India 2020-01-20T17:35:50Z <p>Ilber8000: Expanding, study only mentions Hazaras.</p> <hr /> <div>{{short description|Immigration patterns of different races of people of India}}<br /> {{See also|Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia}}<br /> {{use dmy dates|date=March 2017}}<br /> {{Use Indian English|date=March 2017}}<br /> [[File:Spreading homo sapiens la.svg|thumb|upright=1.5|Successive dispersals of {{color box|#e8e22c}} ''[[Homo erectus]]'' (yellow), {{color box|#e4ca30}} ''[[Homo neanderthalensis]]'' (ochre) and {{color box|#e9252c}} ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' (red).]]<br /> The '''peopling of India''' refers to the migration of ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' into the Indian subcontinent. [[Homo sapiens#Anatomical modernity|Anatomically modern humans]] settled India in multiple waves of [[Early human migrations|early migrations]], over tens of millennia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url= https://www.openthemagazine.com/article/books/migrant-nation |title=Migrant Nation }}&lt;/ref&gt; The first migrants came with the Southern Coastal dispersal, ca. 65,000 years ago, whereafter complex migrations within south and southeast Asia took place. With the onset of farming the population of India changed significantly by the migration of Iranian agri-culturalists and the [[Indo-European migrations|Indo-Europeans]], while the migrations of the Munda people and the Tibeto-Burmese speaking people from [[East Asia]] also added new elements.<br /> <br /> ==Ancestral components in the Indian population==<br /> A series of studies since 2009-2019 have shown that the [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is broadly related to West Eurasians and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}}{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} Later, a component termed &quot;AASI&quot; (found to be the predominant element in ASI), was distinguished in subsequent studies. As no &quot;ASI&quot; or &quot;AASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] (exemplified by the [[Onge]], a possibly distantly related population native to the Andaman Islands) is used as an (imperfect) proxy.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}} Narashimhan et al.2019 suggests AASI split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge (and other Andamanese), and Aboriginal Australian ancestors separated from each other.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} {{sfn|Yelmen et al.|2019}} Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI ''&quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time&quot;''.{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}}<br /> <br /> A number of studies since 2018 have presented a refined model of South Asian ancestry with the help of Ancient DNA.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.2019}}{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}} These studies also concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of South Asian population history.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.2019}}<br /> <br /> ====AASI==== <br /> Narashimhan et al 2018 study introduced AASI - ''“Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI)-related - a hypothesized South Asian Hunter-Gathere lineage&quot;'' which represents ''&quot;an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian ancestors separated from each other&quot;'' and is deeply related to Andaman islanders exemplified by the Onge as proxy.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019|p=9}} Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI ''&quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time&quot;''.{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}} ASI was synonyms to AASI before 2018.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} <br /> <br /> {{quote|&quot;This finding is consistent with a model in which essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.&quot;{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}}}<br /> <br /> ====ASI==== <br /> Narasimhan et al. 2018 and Shinde et al. 2019 analyzed ancient DNA remains from the archaeological sites related to Indus Valley civilization, they found them to have a dual ancestry: AASI-related ancestry and Neolithic Iran-related ancestry.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2019}} Narasimhan et al. 2018 study labels this group &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot;.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|&quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;{{sfn|Shinde et al|2019}}}}<br /> <br /> ASI formed as mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group who moved south and mixed further with AASI-related ancestry. &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group did not carry steppe admixture and were instead mixture of Neolithic Iran-related ancestry and hypothesized AASI-related ancestry. According Narasimhan the genetic makeup of the ASI population consisted of about 73% AASI and about 27% from Iranian-related peoples.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> ==== ANI====<br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) with the help of ancient DNA from neolithic Iran and bronze age steppe found that ANI-related ancestry in South Asians can be modeled as a mix of ancestry related to both early farmers of Iran and to people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite biorxiv | last =Lazaridis | first =Iosif | year =2016 | title =The genetic structure of the world's first farmers | biorxiv=059311 |mode=cs2 | ref={{sfnref|Lazaridis et al.|2016}}}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Narasimhan et al. (2018) and Shinde et al (2019) ancient DNA study came to conclusion that neolithic Iran-related ancestry was present in South Asia before the arrival of steppe ancestry.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}{{sfn|Shinde et al|2019}} ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot;'' and migrants from Bronze age steppe.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> ==== East Asian components ====<br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}|group=note}} namely Ancestral [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]] (AAA) and Ancestral [[Tibeto-Burman languages|Tibeto-Burman]] (ATB). While Tibeto-Burmese ancestry is predominantly found in [[Northeast India]], [[Nepal]] and other parts of northern India, Austroasiatic ancestry is commonly found along the eastern [[Indo-Gangetic Plain]].{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322207974_EAST_ASIAN_ANCESTRY_IN_INDIA|title=East Asian ancestry in India|last=Chaubey|first=|date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt; Additionally Yunusbayev et al. (2015) notes that [[Turkic peoples|Turkic]] and [[Mongolic languages|Mongolic]] related ancestry among [[Hazaras]] in northwest South Asia.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yunusbayev|first=Bayazit|last2=Metspalu|first2=Mait|last3=Metspalu|first3=Ene|last4=Valeev|first4=Albert|last5=Litvinov|first5=Sergei|last6=Valiev|first6=Ruslan|last7=Akhmetova|first7=Vita|last8=Balanovska|first8=Elena|last9=Balanovsky|first9=Oleg|last10=Turdikulova|first10=Shahlo|last11=Dalimova|first11=Dilbar|date=2015-04-21|title=The Genetic Legacy of the Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads across Eurasia|url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4405460/|journal=PLoS Genetics|volume=11|issue=4|doi=10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068|issn=1553-7390|pmc=4405460|pmid=25898006}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====2009-2018 studies====<br /> Reich et al. (2009) study found that [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is &quot;genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians, and Europeans&quot;, and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}} These two groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to [[endogamy]] took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; during the Hindu [[Gupta empire|Gupta rule]].{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} Reich et al. stated that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers”.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. (2013) proposed three scenarios regarding the bringing together of the two groups: <br /> *Migrations before the development of agriculture (8,000–9,000 years before present BP). <br /> *Migration of western Asian people together with the spread of agriculture, maybe up to 4,600 years BP.<br /> *Migrations of western Eurasians from 3,000 to 4,000 years BP.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013|p=422-423}} Moorjani suggests that the ANI and the ASI were plausibly present &quot;unmixed&quot; in India before 2,200 BC.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} <br /> <br /> While Reich notes that the onset of admixture coincides with the arrival of Indo-European language,&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich-interview&quot; /&gt; according to Moorjani et al. (2013) these groups were present &quot;unmixed&quot; in India before the Indo-Aryan migrations.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} Gallego Romero et al. (2011) propose that the ANI component came from Iran and the Middle East,{{sfn|Gallego Romero|2011|p=9}} less than 10,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;Dravidian&quot;}} while according to Lazaridis et al. (2016) ANI is a mix of &quot;early farmers of western Iran&quot; and &quot;people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe&quot;.{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016}} Several studies also show traces of later influxes of maternal genetic material{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild2000&quot; /&gt; and of paternal genetic material related to ANI and possibly the Indo-Europeans.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Jones|2015}}{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016}}<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), the ASI are earliest settlers in India, possibly arriving on the [[Peopling of the world|southern exit]] wave out of Africa.{{sfn|Basu|2016}} These two groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to endogamy took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; by the &quot;Hindu Gupta rulers.&quot;{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} <br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}} namely Ancestral Austro-Asiatic (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}} According to Basu et al. (2016), the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct, fifth ancestry, which is &quot;coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> ====2018-2019 studies====<br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI hypothesized South Asian hunter-gathere lineage; and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> Yelmen et al. (2019) study shows that the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for AASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not found in the northern Indian Gujarati (ASI was not detected in the Gujarati when the Onge were used as a proxy), and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from peoples related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common ancestry with the Andamanese, with the Iranian-related ancestry being predominant on average. And the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry). The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;Steppe ancestry&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10 | date = October 2019 | pmid = 31495572 | pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Paleolithic==<br /> {{Main|Paleolithic|Paleolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> ===First modern human settlers===<br /> {{main|Recent African origin of modern humans}}<br /> <br /> ====Pre- or post-Toba====<br /> The dating of the earliest successful migration modern humans out of Africa is a matter of dispute.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}} It may have pre- or post-dated the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba catastrophe]], a volcanic [[Supervolcano|super eruption]] that took place between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at the site of present-day [[Lake Toba]]. According to Michael Petraglia, stone tools discovered below the layers of ash deposits in India at [[Jwalapuram]], Andhra Pradesh point to a pre-Toba dispersal. The population who created these tools is not known with certainty as no human remains were found.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}} An indication for post-Toba is [[Haplogroup L3 (mtDNA)|haplogroup L3]], that originated before the dispersal of humans out of Africa, and can be dated to 60,000–70,000 years ago, &quot;suggesting that humanity left Africa a few thousand years after Toba.&quot;{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}}<br /> <br /> It has been hypothesized that the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba supereruption]] about 74,000 years ago destroyed much of India's central forests, covering it with a layer of volcanic ash, and may have brought humans worldwide to a state of near-extinction by suddenly plunging the planet into an ice-age that could have lasted for up to 1,800 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Supervolcano Eruption – In Sumatra – Deforested India 73,000 Years Ago | date=Nov 24, 2009 | access-date=Mar 1, 2011 | journal=ScienceDaily | url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091123142739.htm | quote=''... new study provides &quot;incontrovertible evidence&quot; that the volcanic super-eruption of Toba on the island of Sumatra about 73,000 years ago deforested much of central India, some 3,000 miles from the epicenter ... initiating an &quot;Instant Ice Age&quot; that – according to evidence in ice cores taken in Greenland – lasted about 1,800 years ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; If true, this may &quot;explain the apparent [[population bottleneck|bottleneck in human populations]] that geneticists believe occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago&quot; and the relative &quot;lack of genetic diversity among humans alive today.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Since the Toba event is believed to have had such a harsh impact and &quot;specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash,&quot; it was &quot;difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref59movel&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Out of Eden: the peopling of the world | first = Stephen | last = Oppenheimer Chaudhuri | publisher=Robinson | date = 2004 | isbn=978-1-84119-894-1 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=H_zwAAAAMAAJ | quote=''... The Toba event specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash. It is difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters. So, we could predict a broad human extinction ...'' }}&lt;/ref&gt; Therefore, it was believed that all humans previously present in India went extinct during, or shortly after, this event and these first Indians left &quot;no trace of their DNA in present-day humans&quot; – a theory seemingly backed by genetic studies.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref67curug&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=The evolution and history of human populations in South Asia: Inter-disciplinary Studies in Archaeology, Biological Anthropology, Linguistics and Genetics | first1 = Michael D. | last1 = Petraglia | first2 = Bridget | last2 = Allchin | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer, 2007 | isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC | quote=... had H. sapiens colonized India before the eruption? The majority of genetic evidence seems to suggest that the initial colonization of India took place soon after the Toba event. It should be noted, however, that on the basis of this evidence, the hypothesis that modern human populations inhabited India before ~74ka and underwent extinction as a result of Toba cannot be ruled out. If population extinction occurred, there would be no trace of their DNA in present-day humans ...|date=2007-05-22 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Pre-Toba tools====<br /> Research published in 2009 by a team led by Michael Petraglia of the [[University of Oxford]] suggested that some humans may have survived the hypothesized catastrophe on the Indian mainland. Undertaking &quot;[[Pompeii]]-like excavations&quot; under the layer of Toba ash, the team discovered tools and human habitations from both before and after the eruption.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=New evidence shows populations survived the Toba super-eruption 74,000 years ago | publisher=University of Oxford | date=Feb 22, 2009 | access-date=Mar 1, 2011 | url=http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | quote=... Newly discovered archaeological sites in southern and northern India have revealed how people lived before and after the colossal Toba volcanic eruption 74,000 years ago. The international, multidisciplinary research team, led by Oxford University in collaboration with Indian institutions, has uncovered what it calls ‘Pompeii-like excavations’ beneath the Toba ash ... suggests that human populations were present in India prior to 74,000 years ago, or about 15,000 years earlier than expected based on some genetic clocks,’ said project director Dr Michael Petraglia ... | url-status=dead | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101230210026/http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | archive-date=30 December 2010 | df=dmy-all }}&lt;/ref&gt; However, human fossils have not been found from this period, and nothing is known of the ethnicity of these early humans in India.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;/&gt; Recent research also by Macauly et al. (2005){{sfn|Macauly|2005}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot; /&gt; and Posth et al. (2016),{{sfn|Posth|2016}} also argue for a post-Toba dispersal.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot;&gt;[http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/science-magazine.php Bradshaw Foundation, ''Human Migration'']&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Early [[South Asian Stone Age|Stone Age]] hominin fossils have been found in the Narmada valley of Madhya Pradesh. Some have been dated to 200- 700,000 BP. It is uncertain what species they represent.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kennedy KA, Sonakia A, Chiment J, Verma KK | title = Is the Narmada hominid an Indian Homo erectus? | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 86 | issue = 4 | pages = 475–96 | date = December 1991 | pmid = 1776655 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.1330860404 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Post-Toba Southern Coastal dispersal====<br /> {{see|Southern Dispersal|Proto-Australoid}}<br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | align = right<br /> | direction = vertical<br /> | width = 200<br /> | header = Migrations routes according to the [[Coastal Migration]] Model<br /> | image1 = Peopling of eurasia.jpg<br /> | alt1 = <br /> | caption1 = Note the route of the mtDNA [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|Haplogroup M]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]], to [[Andaman Islands]] and [[Southeast Asia]].<br /> | image2 = C=M130-Migration.jpg<br /> | alt2 = <br /> | caption2 = Note the route of the Y-DNA [[Haplogroup C-M130|Haplogroup C]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]] to [[Australia]].<br /> | image3 = Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG<br /> | alt3 = <br /> | caption3 = Y-DNA [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and it's descendants. <br /> }}<br /> By some 70-50,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;Hirst&quot;&gt;{{cite web | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm | first = K. Kris | last = Hirst | name-list-format = vanc | title = Southern Dispersal Route – Early Modern Humans Leave Africa | work = About.com }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Posth&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Karmin M, Saag L, Vicente M, Wilson Sayres MA, Järve M, Talas UG, Rootsi S, Ilumäe AM, Mägi R, Mitt M, Pagani L, Puurand T, Faltyskova Z, Clemente F, Cardona A, Metspalu E, Sahakyan H, Yunusbayev B, Hudjashov G, DeGiorgio M, Loogväli EL, Eichstaedt C, Eelmets M, Chaubey G, Tambets K, Litvinov S, Mormina M, Xue Y, Ayub Q, Zoraqi G, Korneliussen TS, Akhatova F, Lachance J, Tishkoff S, Momynaliev K, Ricaut FX, Kusuma P, Razafindrazaka H, Pierron D, Cox MP, Sultana GN, Willerslev R, Muller C, Westaway M, Lambert D, Skaro V, Kovačevic L, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Khusainova R, Trofimova N, Akhmetova V, Khidiyatova I, Lichman DV, Isakova J, Pocheshkhova E, Sabitov Z, Barashkov NA, Nymadawa P, Mihailov E, Seng JW, Evseeva I, Migliano AB, Abdullah S, Andriadze G, Primorac D, Atramentova L, Utevska O, Yepiskoposyan L, Marjanovic D, Kushniarevich A, Behar DM, Gilissen C, Vissers L, Veltman JA, Balanovska E, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Metspalu A, Fedorova S, Eriksson A, Manica A, Mendez FL, Karafet TM, Veeramah KR, Bradman N, Hammer MF, Osipova LP, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Johnsen K, Remm M, Thomas MG, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Willerslev E, Nielsen R, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = A recent bottleneck of Y chromosome diversity coincides with a global change in culture | journal = Genome Research | volume = 25 | issue = 4 | pages = 459–66 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25770088 | pmc = 4381518 | doi = 10.1101/gr.186684.114 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;ReferenceC&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Haber M, Jones AL, Connell BA, Arciero E, Yang H, Thomas MG, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications for the Expansion of Modern Humans Out of Africa | journal = Genetics | volume = 212 | issue = 4 | pages = 1421–1428 | date = August 2019 | pmid = 31196864 | pmc = 6707464 | doi = 10.1534/genetics.119.302368 }}&lt;/ref&gt; only a small group, possibly as few as 150 to 1,000 people, crossed the Red Sea.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |year=2008 |first=Gary |last=Stix | name-list-format = vanc |url=http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-migration-history-of-humans|title=The Migration History of Humans: DNA Study Traces Human Origins Across the Continents|access-date=2011-06-14}}&lt;/ref&gt; The group that crossed the Red Sea travelled along the coastal route around the coast of [[Arabia]] and [[Persia]] until reaching India, which appears to be the first major settling point.&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid15339343&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | issue = | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 | ref = harv }}&lt;/ref&gt; Geneticist [[Spencer Wells]] says that the early travellers followed the southern coastline of Asia, crossed about {{convert|250|km|0|abbr=out}} of sea, and colonized Australia by around 50,000 years ago. The [[Australian Aborigines|Aborigines of Australia]], Wells says, are the descendants of the first wave of migrations.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7358868.stm |title= Human line 'nearly split in two' |publisher= BBC News |date= April 24, 2008 | access-date=2009-12-31 | first=Paul | last=Rincon | name-list-format = vanc }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The oldest definitively identified Homo sapiens fossils yet found in South Asia are [[Balangoda Man|Balangoda man]]. Named for the location in Sri Lanka where they were discovered, they are at least 28,000 years old.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Deraniyagala|first=Siran U.| name-list-format = vanc |date=1989-06-01|title=Fossil Remains of 28,000-Year-Old Hominids from Sri Lanka|journal=Current Anthropology|volume=30|issue=3|pages=394–399|doi=10.1086/203757|issn=0011-3204}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Hypothised substrates===<br /> <br /> ====&quot;Negritos&quot;====<br /> {{see also|Negrito|Andaman Islands|Andamanese people|Sentinelese people|Sentinelese language}}<br /> <br /> The appropriateness of using the label 'Negrito' to bundle together peoples of different [[ethnicity]] based on similarities in stature and complexion has been challenged.{{sfn|Manickham|2009}} The Negrito peoples are more likely descended from the [[Melanesians|Melanesian]]-related settlers of Southeast Asia. Vishwanathan et al. (2004) conclude that &quot;the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot;{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to Vishwanathan et al. (2004), the typical &quot;negrito&quot; features could also have been developed by [[convergent evolution]].{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to [[Gyaneshwer Chaubey]] and Endicott (2013), &quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as 'negritos.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Reich et al. (2009), &quot;ASI, Proto-East-Asians and Andaman islanders&quot; split around 1,700 generations ago. And the Andaman Islanders, though distinct from it, are the closest surviving group to the &quot;ASI&quot; population which contributed varying degrees of ancestry to South Asians.{{sfn|Reich|2009a|p=40}}{{refn|group=note|According to Basu et al. (2016): &quot;The Andaman archipelago was peopled by members of a distinct, fifth ancestry,&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}} yet they also state that &quot;ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}} According to Chaubey and Endicott (2013) Overall, the Andamanese are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians (as well as being closer to Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians).&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Endicott P | title = The Andaman Islanders in a regional genetic context: reexamining the evidence for an early peopling of the archipelago from South Asia | journal = Human Biology | volume = 85 | issue = 1–3 | pages = 153–72 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24297224 | doi = 10.3378/027.085.0307 | url = https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|Chaubey and Endicott (2013):&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;&lt;br&gt;* &quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled less than ~26 ka and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and [[Great Andamanese]] commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)&lt;br&gt;* &quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)}}<br /> <br /> Modern South Asians have not been found to carry the paternal lineages common in the Andamanese, which has been suggested to indicate that certain lineages may have become extinct in India or that they may be very rare and have not yet been sampled.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Endicott P, Gilbert MT, Stringer C, Lalueza-Fox C, Willerslev E, Hansen AJ, Cooper A | title = The genetic origins of the Andaman Islanders | language = English | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 1 | pages = 178–84 | date = January 2003 | pmid = 12478481 | pmc = 378623 | doi = 10.1086/345487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to a large craniometric study (Raghavan and Bulbeck et al. 2013) the native populations of South Asia ([[India]] and [[Sri Lanka]]) have distinct craniometric and anthropologic ancestry. Both southern and northern groups are most similar to each other and have generally closer affinities to various &quot;[[Caucasoid]]&quot; groups. The study further showed that the native South Asians (including the [[Vedda]]) form a distinct group and are not morphologically aligned to &quot;[[Australoid]]&quot; or &quot;[[Negrito]]&quot; groups. The authors state: &quot;''If there were an Australoid “substratum” component to Indians’ ancestry, we would expect some degree of craniometric similarity between Howells’ Southwest Pacific series and Indians. But in fact, the Southwest Pacific and Indian are craniometrically very distinct, falsifying any claim for an Australoid substratum in India.''&quot;<br /> <br /> However, Raghavan and Bulbeck et al., while noting the distinctiveness between South Asian and Andamanese crania, also explain that this is not in conflict with genetic evidence (found by Reich et al. in 2009), which suggests some shared ancestry between Andamanese and South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Raghavan P, Bulbeck D, Pathmanathan G, Rathee SK | title = Indian craniometric variability and affinities | journal = International Journal of Evolutionary Biology | volume = 2013 | pages = 836738 | date = 2013 | pmid = 24455409 | pmc = 3886603 | doi = 10.1155/2013/836738 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the ASI, though not closely related to any living group, are &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. also suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI. The study concluded that “almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West Eurasians in PCA (referred to as “Indian cline”)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Basu et al. 2016 concluded that the Andamanese have a distinct ancestry and are not closely related to other South Asians but are closer to Southeast Asian Negritos, indicating that South Asian peoples do not descend directly from &quot;Negritos&quot; as such.{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> A study by Narasimhan et al. in 2018 observed that samples from an &quot;Indus periphery group&quot; (a population from the periphery of the [[Indus Valley civilization]]) are always mixes of Andamanese-related South Asian hunter-gatherer ancestry (called &quot;AASI&quot;) and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. 2019 shows that the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and not closely related, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for ASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not detected in the northern Indian [[Gujarati people|Gujarati]], and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Genetic studies by Shinde et al. and Narasimhan et al. (both in 2019) on remains from the Indus Valley civilization of northeast India and nearby Pakistan, found a mixture of two kinds of ancestry: ancestry from native South Asian hunter-gatherers distantly related to the Andamanese (ranging from 2% to 50%) and early Iranian farmer-related ancestry (50% to 98%) in those analyzed by Shinde et al. (with the Iranian farmer related ancestry generally greater), and with the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. having 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Vedda====<br /> {{see also|Vedda people}}<br /> Groups ancestral to the modern [[Vedda people|Veddas]] were probably the earliest inhabitants of the area. Their arrival is dated tentatively to 60,000–70,000 years ago. They are genetically distinguishable from the other peoples of Sri Lanka and they show a high degree of intra-group diversity. This is consistent with a long history of existing as small subgroups undergoing significant [[genetic drift]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Deraniyagala SU | title = Pre-and protohistoric settlement in Sri Lanka. | journal = XIII UISPP Congress Proceedings | date = September 1996 | volume = 5 | pages = 277–285 | url = http://www.lankalibrary.com/geo/dera1.html }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Ranaweera_2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Ranaweera L, Kaewsutthi S, Win Tun A, Boonyarit H, Poolsuwan S, Lertrit P | title = Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 59 | issue = 1 | pages = 28–36 | date = January 2014 | pmid = 24196378 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.112 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Holocene==<br /> {{Main|Holocene|Neolithic|Neolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> After the last [[Ice age|glacial maximum]], human populations started to grow and migrate. With the invention of agriculture, the so-called Neolithic revolution, larger numbers of people could be sustained. The use of metals (copper, bronze, iron) further changed human ways of life, giving an initial advance to early users, and aiding further migrations, and admixture.<br /> <br /> ===Neolithic farmers===<br /> {{See also|Dravidian peoples|Indus Valley Civilisation|Mehrgarh}}<br /> <br /> The neolithic farmers are generally linked to the early [[Dravidian peoples]], which are suggested to have migrated from the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] to northern South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/jgen/087/02/0175-0179&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Gallego Romero et al. (2011), their research on lactose tolerance in India suggests that &quot;the west Eurasian genetic contribution identified by Reich et al. (2009) principally reflects gene flow from Iran and the Middle East.&quot;{{sfn|Gallego Romero|202011|p=9}} Gallego Romero notes that Indians who are lactose-tolerant show a genetic pattern regarding this tolerance which is &quot;characteristic of the common European mutation.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | url = http://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2011/09/14/lactose-tolerance-in-the-indian-dairyland/ | first = Rob | last = Mitchum | name-list-format = vanc | title = Lactose Tolerance in the Indian Dairyland | work = ScienceLife | publisher = UChicago Medicine | date = 14 September 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Romero, this suggests that &quot;the most common lactose tolerance mutation made a two-way migration out of the Middle East less than 10,000 years ago. While the mutation spread across Europe, another explorer must have brought the mutation eastward to India – likely traveling along the coast of the Persian Gulf where other pockets of the same mutation have been found.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Asko Parpola, who regards the Harappans to have been Dravidian, notes that Mehrgarh (7000&amp;nbsp;BCE to c. 2500&amp;nbsp;BCE), to the west of the [[Indus River]] valley,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4882968.stm |title=Stone age man used dentist drill | work = BBC News | date = 6 April 2006 }}&lt;/ref&gt; is a precursor of the Indus Valley Civilisation, whose inhabitants migrated into the Indus Valley and became the Indus Valley Civilisation.{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}} It is one of the earliest sites with evidence of farming and herding in [[South Asia]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | work = UNESCO World Heritage | date = 2004 | url = https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1876/ | title = Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | last = Hirst | first = K. Kris | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2005 | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/g/mehrgarh.htm | title = Mehrgarh | work = Guide to Archaeology }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Lukacs and Hemphill, while there is a strong continuity between the neolithic and [[chalcolithic]] (Copper Age) cultures of Mehrgarh, dental evidence shows that the chalcolithic population did not descend from the neolithic population of Mehrgarh,{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} which &quot;suggests moderate levels of gene flow.&quot;{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} They further noted that &quot;the direct lineal descendents of the Neolithic inhabitants of Mehrgarh are to be found to the south and the east of Mehrgarh, in northwestern India and the western edge of the Deccan plateau,&quot; with neolithic Mehrgarh showing greater affinity with chalcolithic [[Inamgaon]], south of Mehrgarh, than with chalcolithic Mehrgarh.{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}}<br /> <br /> According to David McAlpin, the Dravidian languages were brought to India by immigration into India from [[Elam]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin D, Emeneau MB, Jacobsen Jr WH, Kuiper FB, Paper HH, Reiner E, Stopa R, Vallat F, Wescott RW | chapter = Elamite and Dravidian: Further Evidence of Relationship [and Comments and Reply]. | title = Current Anthropology | date = March 1975 | volume = 16 | issue = 1 | pages = 105–15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin DW | chapter = Linguistic prehistory: the Dravidian situation. | title = Aryan and Non-Aryan | date = 1979 | pages = 175–89 | publisher = Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of Michigan | location = Ann Arbor}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McAlpin DW | title = Proto-Elamo-Dravidian: The evidence and its implications. | journal = Transactions of the American Philosophical Society | date = January 1981 | volume = 71 | issue = 3 | pages = 1–55 | doi = 10.2307/1006352 | jstor = 1006352 | url = https://semanticscholar.org/paper/897c74bc98e62cec162ddf7f75af4650c27147e1 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Genetic Disorders of the Indian Subcontinent | first = Dhavendra | last = Kumar | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer | year=2004 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-1-4020-1215-0 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bpl0LXKj13QC | quote=... The analysis of two Y chromosome variants, Hgr9 and Hgr3 provides interesting data (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). Microsatellite variation of Hgr9 among Iranians, Pakistanis and Indians indicate an expansion of populations to around 9000 YBP in Iran and then to 6,000 YBP in India. This migration originated in what was historically termed Elam in south-west Iran to the Indus valley, and may have been associated with the spread of Dravidian languages from south-west Iran (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Renfrew and Cavalli-Sforza, proto-Dravidian was brought to India by farmers from the Iranian part of the Fertile Crescent,{{sfn|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|p=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;mukherjee2001&quot; &gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/bf02717908 | quote = ... More recently, about 15,000-10,000 years before present (ybp), when agriculture developed in the Fertile Crescent region that extends from Israel through northern Syria to western Iran, there was another eastward wave of human migration (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994; Renfrew 1987), a part of which also appears to have entered India. This wave has been postulated to have brought the Dravidian languages into India (Renfrew 1987). Subsequently, the Indo-European (Aryan) language family was introduced into India about 4,000 ybp ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}{{refn|group=note|Derenko: &quot;The spread of these new technologies has been associated with the dispersal of Dravidian and Indo-European languages in southern Asia. It is hypothesized that the proto-Elamo-Dravidian language, most likely originated in the Elam province in southwestern Iran, spread eastwards with the movement of farmers to the Indus Valley and the Indian sub-continent.&quot;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Derenko refers to:&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1987), ''Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins''&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1996), ''Language families and the spread of farming.'' In: Harris DR, editor, ''The origins and spread of Agriculture and Pastoralism in Eurasia'', pp. 70–92&lt;br&gt;* Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, Piazza (1994), ''The History and Geography of Human Genes''.}} but more recently Heggerty and Renfrew noted that &quot;McAlpin's analysis of the language data, and thus his claims, remain far from orthodoxy&quot;, adding that Fuller finds no relation of Dravidian language with other languages, and thus assumes it to be native to India.&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew&gt;{{cite book |last1=Heggarty |first1=Paul |last2=Renfrew |first2=Collin | name-list-format = vanc |year=2014|chapter=South and Island Southeast Asia; Languages|editor-last1=Renfrew|editor-first1=Colin|editor-last2=Bahn|editor-first2=Paul|title=The Cambridge World Prehistory|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vWbwAwAAQBAJ|publisher=Cambridge University Press}}&lt;/ref&gt; Renfrew and Bahn conclude that several scenarios are compatible with the data, and that &quot;the linguistic jury is still very much out.&quot;&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew/&gt;{{refn|group=note|The Elamite-hypothesis has drawn attention in the scholarly literature, but has never been fully accpeted:&lt;br&gt;* According to Mikhail Andronov, Dravidian languages were brought to India at the beginning of the third millennium BCE.{{sfn|Andronov|2003|p=299}}&lt;br&gt;* Kivisild et al. (1999) note that &quot;a small fraction of the West Eurasian mtDNA lineages found in Indian populations can be ascribed to a relatively recent admixture.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1331}} at ca. 9,300 ± 3,000 years before present,{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}} which coincides with &quot;the arrival to India of cereals domesticated in the [[Fertile Crescent]]&quot; and &quot;lends credence to the suggested [[Elamo-Dravidian languages|linguistic connection]] between the Elamite and Dravidic populations.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}}&lt;br&gt;* According to Palanichamy et al. (2015), &quot;The presence of mtDNA haplogroups (HV14 and U1a) and Y-chromosome haplogroup ([[Haplogroup L-M20|L1]]) in Dravidian populations indicates the spread of the Dravidian language into India from west Asia.&quot;{{sfnp|Palanichamy|2015|p=645}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; According to Krishnamurti, Proto-Dravidian may have been spoken in the Indus civilization, suggesting a &quot;tentative date of Proto-Dravidian around the early part of the third millennium.&quot;{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501}} Krishnamurti further states that South Dravidian I (including pre-Tamil) and South Dravidian II (including Pre-Telugu) split around the eleventh century BCE, with the other major branches splitting off at around the same time.{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501-502}}}}<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}, and were preceded by a mixture of “AASI” (ancient ancestral South Asian hunter-gatherers, sharing a common origin with the Andamanese), and early peoples from what is now [[Iran]], who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery population are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> The Iranian farmer-related ancestry in the Indus Valley Civilisation is estimated at 50–98% according to a 2019 study by Shinde et al. (generally a majority) and at 45–82% according to a 2019 study by Narasimhan et al., with the remainder in both studies (2-50% according to Shinde et al, and 11–50% according to Narasimhan et al.) deriving from the &quot;AASI&quot; population (native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common root with the indigenous Andamanese).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to another study the neolithic farmers ancestry component forms the main ancestry of modern South Asians. These neolithic farmers migrated from the [[Fertile Crescent|fertile crescent]], most likely from a region near the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] in modern day Iran, to South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm|title=Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians|website=ScienceDaily|language=en|access-date=2020-01-20}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Austroasiatic===<br /> {{See also|Austroasiatic languages|Munda peoples|Khasi people}}<br /> <br /> According to Ness, there are three broad theories on the origins of the Austroasiatic speakers, namely northeastern India, central or southern China, or southeast Asia.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}} Multiple researches indicate that the Austroasiatic populations in India are derived from (mostly male dominated) migrations from southeast Asia during the Holocene.{{sfn|van Driem|2007a}}{{sfn|Chaubey|2010}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot; /&gt;{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;!--** START OF NOTE **--&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;ASI-AAA&quot;|Nevertheless, according to Basu et al. (2016), the AAA were early settlers in India, related to the ASI: &quot;The absence of significant resemblance with any of the neighboring populations is indicative of the ASI and the AAA being early settlers in India, possibly arriving on the “southern exit” wave out of Africa. Differentiation between the ASI and the AAA possibly took place after their arrival in India (ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population in SI Appendix, Fig. S2).{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}}&lt;!--** END OF NOTE **--&gt; According to Van Driem (2007), <br /> {{quote|...the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.{{sfn|van Driem|2007a|p=7}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey et al. (2011), &quot;AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;{{sfn|Chaubey|2010}}{{refn|group=note|See also:&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | work = Dienekes Anthropology Blog | url = http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html | title = Origin of Indian Austroasiatic speakers | date = 27 October 2010 }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | year = 2010 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/#.UQfBCVQR-Sp | title = Sons of the conquerors: the story of India? }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2013 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ | title = Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India}} }} According to Zhang et al. (2015), Austroasiatic (male) migrations from southeast Asia into India took place after the lates Glacial maximum, circa 10,000 years ago.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Arunkumar et al. (2015), Y-chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, which is typical for Austrosiatic speaking peoples, clearly decreases from Laos to east India, with &quot;a serial decrease in expansion time from east to west,&quot; namely &quot;5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India.&quot; This suggests &quot;a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first = Miguel | last = Vilar | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2015 | url = http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ | title = DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India | work = National Geographic }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Riccio et al. (2011), the Munda people are likely descended from Austroasiatic migrants from southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Riccio ME, Nunes JM, Rahal M, Kervaire B, Tiercy JM, Sanchez-Mazas A | title = The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study | journal = Human Biology | volume = 83 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–35 | date = June 2011 | pmid = 21740156 | doi = 10.3378/027.083.0306 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Alejandro | last1 = Gutman | first2 = Beatriz | last2 = Avanzati | name-list-format = vanc | work = The Language Gulper | url = http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Austroasiatic.html | title = Austroasiatic Languages }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Ness, the Khasi probably migrated into India in the first millennium BCE.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}}<br /> <br /> According to a genetic research (2015) including linguistic analyses, suggests an [[East Asia|East Asian]] origin for proto-Austroasiatic groups, which first migrated to Southeast Asia and later into India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283080042|title=Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro- Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent|last=Zhang| name-list-format = vanc |date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Indo-Aryans===<br /> {{Main|Indo-Aryan peoples|Indo-Aryan migration theory#genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[File:IE expansion.png|400px|thumb|right|Scheme of Indo-European migrations, of which the Indo-Aryan migrations form a part, from c. 4000 to 1000 BCE according to the [[Kurgan hypothesis]].&lt;br /&gt;* The magenta area corresponds to the assumed ''[[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|Urheimat]]'' ([[Samara culture]], [[Sredny Stog culture]]) and the subsequent [[Yamna culture]].&lt;br /&gt;* The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to c. 2500 BCE.&lt;br /&gt;* The orange area to 1000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=30}}]]<br /> <br /> The '''Indo-Aryan migration theory'''{{refn|group=note|The term &quot;invasion&quot; is only being used nowadays by opponents of the Indo-Aryan Migration theory.{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}} The term &quot;invasion&quot; does not reflect the contemporary scholarly understanding of the Indo-Aryan migrations,{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}} and is merely being used in a polemical and distractive way.}} explains the introduction of the [[Indo-Aryan languages]] in the Indian subcontinent by proposing migrations from the [[Sintashta culture]]{{sfn|Anthony|2007|pp=408–411}}{{sfn|Kuz'mina|2007|p=222}} through [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]] and into the northern [[Indian subcontinent]] (modern day [[India]], [[Pakistan]], [[Bangladesh]] and [[Nepal]]). It is based on linguistic similarities between northern Indian and western European languages, and supported by archeological and anthropological research. They form part of a complex genetical puzzle on the origin and spread of the various components of the Indian population.<br /> <br /> The Indo-Aryan migrations started in approximately 1,800 BCE, after the invention of the [[Chariot|war chariot]], and also brought Indo-Aryan languages into the [[Levant]] and possibly [[Inner Asia]]. It was part of the diffusion of [[Indo-European languages]] from the [[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|proto-Indo-European homeland]] at the [[Pontic steppe]], a large area of [[grassland]]s in far [[Eastern Europe]], which started in the 5th to 4th millennia BCE, and the [[Indo-European migrations]] out of the Eurasian steppes, which started approximately in 2,000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=33}}{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}}<br /> <br /> The theory posits that these Indo-Aryan speaking people may have been a genetically diverse group of people who were united by shared cultural norms and language, referred to as ''aryā'', &quot;noble.&quot; Diffusion of this culture and language took place by patron-client systems, which allowed for the absorption and acculturalisation of other groups into this culture, and explains the strong influence on other cultures with which it interacted.<br /> <br /> The idea of an Indo-Aryan immigration was developed shortly after the discovery of the [[Indo-European language family]] in the late 18th century, when similarities between western and Indian languages had been noted. Given these similarities, a [[Proto-Indo-European language|single source or origin]] was proposed, which was diffused by migrations from some original homeland. This linguistic argument{{sfn|Bryant|2001}} is complemented with archaeological, literary, and cultural evidence, and research and discussions on it continue.<br /> <br /> The [[Proto-Indo-Iranians]], from which the [[Indo-Aryans]] developed, are identified with the [[Sintashta culture]] (2100–1800 BCE),{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=390 (fig. 15.9), 405–411}} and the [[Andronovo culture]],{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=49}} which flourished ca. 1800–1400 BCE in the steppes around the [[Aral sea]], present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. The proto-Indo-Iranians were influenced by the [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]], south of the Andronovo culture, from which they borrowed their distinctive religious beliefs and practices. The Indo-Aryans split off around 1800–1600 BCE from the Iranians,{{sfn|Anthony|2007|p=408}} whereafter the Indo-Aryans migrated into the Levant and north-western India.<br /> <br /> ===Tibeto-Burmese===<br /> {{Main|Tibeto-Burman languages}}<br /> <br /> According to Cordaux et al. (2004), the Tibeto-Burmans possibly came from the Himalayan and north-eastern borders of the subcontinent within the past 4,200 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Weiss G, Saha N, Stoneking M | title = The northeast Indian passageway: a barrier or corridor for human migrations? | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 21 | issue = 8 | pages = 1525–33 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15128876 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msh151 | url = http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/8/1525 | access-date = 2008-11-25 | quote = ... Our coalescence analysis suggests that the expansion of Tibeto-Burman speakers to northeast India most likely took place within the past 4,200 years ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A wide variety of Tibeto-Burman languages are spoken on the southern slopes of the Himalayas. Sizable groups that have been identified are the [[West Himalayish languages]] of [[Himachal Pradesh]] and western Nepal, the [[Tamangic languages]] of western Nepal, including [[Tamang language|Tamang]] with one million speakers, and the [[Kiranti languages]] of eastern Nepal. The remaining groups are small, with several isolates.<br /> <br /> The [[Newar language]] (Nepal Bhasa) of central Nepal has a million speakers and a literature dating from the 12th century, and nearly a million people speak [[Magaric languages]], but the rest have small speech communities. Other isolates and small groups in Nepal are [[Dura language|Dura]], [[Raji–Raute languages|Raji–Raute]], [[Chepangic languages|Chepangic]] and [[Dhimal languages|Dhimalish]]. [[Lepcha language|Lepcha]] is spoken in an area from eastern Nepal to western Bhutan.{{sfnp|van Driem|2007|p=296}} Most of the languages of Bhutan are Bodish, but it also has three small isolates, [['Ole language|'Ole]] (&quot;Black Mountain Monpa&quot;), [[Lhokpu language|Lhokpu]] and [[Gongduk language|Gongduk]] and a larger community of speakers of [[Tshangla language|Tshangla]].{{sfnp|van Driem|2011a}}<br /> <br /> ===Crossovers in languages and ethnicity===<br /> {{See also|Adivasi}}<br /> One complication in studying various population groups is that ethnic origins and linguistic affiliations in India match only inexactly: while the [[Kurukh people|Oraon]] [[adivasi]]s are classified as an &quot;Austric&quot; group, their language, called [[Kurukh language|Kurukh]], is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Bilingual Education | first1 = Jim | last1 = Cummins | first2 = David | last2 = Corson | name-list-format = vanc | year=1999 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-0792348061 | publisher=Springer | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=x1aw6j7xHpwC | quote=... over one million speakers each: Bhili (Indo-Aryan) 4.5 million; Santali (Austric) 4.2 m; Gondi (Dravidian) 2.0 m; and Kurukh (Dravidian) 1.3 million ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Nicobarese are considered to be a Mongoloid group,&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Khongsdier R, Mukherjee N | title = Growth and nutritional status of Khasi boys in Northeast India relating to exogamous marriages and socioeconomic classes | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 122 | issue = 2 | pages = 162–70 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 12949836 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.10305 | url = http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | access-date = 2008-11-25 | url-status = dead | quote = ... The Khasis are one of the Indo-Mongoloid tribes in Northeast India. They speak the Monkhmer language, which belongs to the Austro-Asiatic group (Das, 1978) ... | archive-url = https://archive.today/20130105170233/http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | archive-date = 2013-01-05 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Tribal Development in India: The Contemporary Debate | first = Govinda Chandra | last = Rath | name-list-format = vanc | year=2006 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-0761934233 | publisher=SAGE | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=BxDKhOnWwOsC | quote=... The Car Nicobarese are of Mongoloid stock ... The Nicobarese speak different languages of the Nicobarese group, which belongs to an Austro-Asiatic language sub-family ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; and the [[Munda people|Munda]] and [[Santals]] [[Adivasi]] are &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=The Sacred Complex of Munda Tribe | first = Malini | last = Srivastava | name-list-format = vanc | journal=Anthropologist | volume = 9 | issue = 4 | pages = 327–330 | year=2007 | access-date=2008-11-25 | url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T-Anth/Anth-09-0-000-000-2007-Web/Anth-09-4-000-07-Abst-PDF/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M-Tt.pdf | quote=... Racially, they are proto-australoid and speak Mundari dialect of Austro-Asiatic ...| doi = 10.1080/09720073.2007.11891020 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;chaudhuri1993&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=State Formation Among Tribals: A Quest for Santal Identity | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1993 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-8121204224 | publisher=Gyan Publishing House | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=rhMXAAAAIAAJ | quote=... The Santal is a large Proto-Australoid tribe found in West Bengal, northern Orissa, Bihar, Assam as also in Bangladesh ... The solidarity having been broken, the Santals are gradually adopting languages of the areas inhabited, like Oriya in Orissa, Hindi in Bihar and Bengali in West Bengal and Bangladesh ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;culshaw1949&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Tribal Heritage: A Study of the Santals | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1949 | access-date=2008-11-25 | publisher=Lutterworth Press | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=PpFCAAAAIAAJ | quote=''... The Santals belong to his second &quot;main race&quot;, the Proto-Australoid, which he considers arrived in India soon after the Negritos ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; but all four speak Austro-Asiatic languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot; /&gt; The [[Bhil]]s and [[Gondi people|Gonds]] [[Adivasi]] are frequently classified as &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;shankarkumar2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |title=A Correlative Study of HLA, Sickle Cell Gene and G6PD Deficiency with Splenomegaly and Malaria Incidence Among Bhils and Pawra Tribes from Dhadgon, Dhule, Maharastra | vauthors = Shankarkumar U |journal=Studies of Tribes and Tribals |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=91–94 |date=2003 |access-date=2008-11-25 |url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T%20&amp;%20T/T%20&amp;%20T-01-0-000-000-2003-Web/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-174-2003-Abst-PDF/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar.pdf |quote=... The Bhils are one of the largest tribes concentrated mainly in Western Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Eastern Gujarat and Northern Maharastra. Racially they were classified as Gondids, Malids or Proto-Australoid, but their social history is still a mystery (Bhatia and Rao, 1986) ...| doi=10.1080/0972639X.2003.11886488 }}&lt;/ref&gt; yet [[Bhil languages]] are [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]] and the [[Gondi language]] is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{col div|colwidth=30em}}<br /> * [[Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia]]<br /> * [[Early Indians]]<br /> * [[Early human migrations]]<br /> * [[Andamanese]]<br /> * [[Irulas]]<br /> * [[Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis]]<br /> {{colend}}<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note|2}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{reflist|2}}<br /> <br /> ==Sources==<br /> {{refbegin|30em}}<br /> &lt;!-- A --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Andronov |first=Mikhail Sergeevich | name-list-format = vanc |title=A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian Languages |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vhB60gYvnLgC&amp;pg=PA299 |year=2003 |publisher=Otto Harrassowitz Verlag |isbn=978-3-447-04455-4 |ref=harv }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last=Anthony | first=David W. | name-list-format = vanc | year=2007 | title=The Horse The Wheel And Language. How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped The Modern World | publisher=Princeton University Press }}<br /> * {{cite journal |last=Appenzeller |first=Tim | name-list-format = vanc |year=2012 |title=Human migrations: Eastern odyssey. Humans had spread across Asia by 50,000 years ago. Everything else about our original exodus from Africa is up for debate. |journal=Nature |volume=485 |issue=7396 |url=http://www.nature.com/news/human-migrations-eastern-odyssey-1.10560}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Wei LH, Kavitha VJ, Syama A, Arun VS, Sathua S, Sahoo R, Balakrishnan R, Riba T, Chakravarthy J, Chaudhury B | collaboration = The Genographic Consortium | year =2015 | title =A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west | journal =Journal of Systematics and Evolution |volume=53 |issue=6 |pages=546–560 | doi =10.1111/jse.12147| url =https://semanticscholar.org/paper/cb2c767a6f58bc2cf853fbf57ac38f1c5388cc32 }}<br /> &lt;!-- B --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | ref = {{sfnref|Basu et al.|2016}} | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Beckwith |first=Christopher I.| name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Christopher I. Beckwith |title=Empires of the Silk Road: A History of Central Eurasia from the Bronze Age to the Present |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=-Ue8BxLEMt4C |date=16 March 2009 |publisher=[[Princeton University Press]] |isbn=978-1-4008-2994-1 |access-date=30 December 2014 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last=Bryant | first=Edwin | name-list-format = vanc | author-link=Edwin Bryant (author) | year=2001 | title=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate | publisher=Oxford University Press | isbn=978-0-19-513777-4 | title-link=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture }}.<br /> &lt;!-- C --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Cavalli-Sforza | first1 =Luigi Luca | last2 =Menozzi | first2 =Paolo | last3 =Piazza | first3 =Alberto | name-list-format = vanc | year =1994 | title =The History and Geography of Human Genes | publisher =Princeton University Press}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Choi Y, Mägi R, Romero IG, Soares P, van Oven M, Behar DM, Rootsi S, Hudjashov G, Mallick CB, Karmin M, Nelis M, Parik J, Reddy AG, Metspalu E, van Driem G, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C, Thangaraj K, Singh L, Remm M, Richards MB, Lahr MM, Kayser M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Population genetic structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: the role of landscape barriers and sex-specific admixture | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 28 | issue = 2 | pages = 1013–24 | date = February 2011 | pmid = 20978040 | pmc = 3355372 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq288 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Coningham | first1 =Robin | last2 =Young | first2 =Ruth | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Archaeology of South Asia: From the Indus to Asoka, c.6500 BCE–200 CE | publisher =Cambridge University Press}}<br /> &lt;!-- D --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Bahmanimehr A, Denisova G, Perkova M, Farjadian S, Yepiskoposyan L | title = Complete mitochondrial DNA diversity in Iranians | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 8 | issue = 11 | pages = e80673 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24244704 | pmc = 3828245 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0080673 | bibcode = 2013PLoSO...880673D }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | chapter = South Asia and the Middle East | title = Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages | editor-last = Moseley | editor-first = Christopher | publisher = Routledge | year = 2007 | isbn = 978-0-7007-1197-0 | pages = 283–347 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =van Driem | first =George L. | name-list-format = vanc | year =2007b | title =Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies | url =http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf}}<br /> * {{cite journal | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | title = Tibeto-Burman subgroups and historical grammar | journal = Himalayan Linguistics Journal | volume = 10 | issue = 1 | year = 2011a | pages = 31–39 | url = http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | url-status = dead | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20120112220623/http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | archive-date = 12 January 2012 | df = dmy-all }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Bamshad MJ, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Reidla M, Laos S, Parik J, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Papiha SS, Mastana SS, Mir MR, Ferak V, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Deep common ancestry of indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 9 | issue = 22 | pages = 1331–4 | date = November 1999 | pmid = 10574762 | doi = 10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 | url = http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | url-status = dead | df = dmy-all | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20051030014804/http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | archive-date = 30 October 2005 }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Kuz'mina |first=Elena Efimovna | name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Elena Efimovna Kuzmina |editor=J. P. Mallory |editor-link=J. P. Mallory |title=The Origin of the Indo-Iranians |publisher=Brill |year=2007 |isbn=978-90-04-16054-5}}<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Manickham |first=Sandra Khor| name-list-format = vanc |editor-last = Hägerdal | editor-first = Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 | ref = {{sfnref|Metspalu et al.|2011}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | ref = {{sfnref|Moorjani et al.|2013}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | name-list-format = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | journal =bioRxiv | pages =292581 | url =https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Palanichamy MG, Mitra B, Zhang CL, Debnath M, Li GM, Wang HW, Agrawal S, Chaudhuri TK, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = West Eurasian mtDNA lineages in India: an insight into the spread of the Dravidian language and the origins of the caste system | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 134 | issue = 6 | pages = 637–47 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25832481 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-015-1547-4 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = Ruhlen | first = Merritt | authorlink = Merritt Ruhlen | name-list-format = vanc | title = A Guide to the World's Languages: Classification | publisher = Stanford University Press | year = 1991 | isbn = 978-0-8047-1894-3 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2010 | title =A Dravidian solution to the Indus script problem | publisher =World Classical Tamil Conference | url = http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/00133/_A_Dravidian_Soluti_133901a.pdf }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Roots of Hinduism. The Early Arians and the Indus Civilization | publisher =Oxford University Press}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | ref = {{sfnref|Reich et al.|2009}} | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | url = https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x | url = http://repository.ias.ac.in/21333/1/328.pdf }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | year =2002 | publisher =Princeton University Press | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | year =2012 | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | publisher =Random House Publishing Group | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * {{cite book | last=Witzel | first=Michael | name-list-format = vanc | year=2005 | chapter=Indocentrism | editor-last1=Bryant | editor-first1=Edwin | editor-last2=Patton | editor-first2=Laurie L. | title=TheE Indo-Aryan Controversy. Evidence and inference in Indian history | publisher=Routledge | chapter-url=https://archive.org/details/EdwinBryantLauriePattonIndoAryanControversyEvidenceAndInferenceInIndianHistoryRoutledge2005}}<br /> &lt;!-- Z --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Zhang X, Liao S, Qi X, Liu J, Kampuansai J, Zhang H, Yang Z, Serey B, Sovannary T, Bunnath L, Seang Aun H, Samnom H, Kangwanpong D, Shi H, Su B | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro-Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent | journal = Scientific Reports | volume = 5 | pages = 15486 | date = October 2015 | pmid = 26482917 | pmc = 4611482 | doi = 10.1038/srep15486 | bibcode = 2015NatSR...515486Z }}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> ;Overview<br /> * Akhilesh Pillalamarri, ''Where Did Indians Come from'', [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/unraveled-where-indians-come-from-part-1/ part1], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-indians-come-from-part-2-dravidians-and-aryans/ part 2], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-did-indians-come-from-part-3-what-is-caste/ part 3]<br /> ;Negritos<br /> * [https://thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com/tag/negrito/ thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com, ''Negrito'']<br /> <br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:History of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Peopling of the world|India]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&diff=936728179 Peopling of India 2020-01-20T17:11:32Z <p>Ilber8000: RV : sock puppet vandalism</p> <hr /> <div>{{short description|Immigration patterns of different races of people of India}}<br /> {{See also|Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia}}<br /> {{use dmy dates|date=March 2017}}<br /> {{Use Indian English|date=March 2017}}<br /> [[File:Spreading homo sapiens la.svg|thumb|upright=1.5|Successive dispersals of {{color box|#e8e22c}} ''[[Homo erectus]]'' (yellow), {{color box|#e4ca30}} ''[[Homo neanderthalensis]]'' (ochre) and {{color box|#e9252c}} ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' (red).]]<br /> The '''peopling of India''' refers to the migration of ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' into the Indian subcontinent. [[Homo sapiens#Anatomical modernity|Anatomically modern humans]] settled India in multiple waves of [[Early human migrations|early migrations]], over tens of millennia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url= https://www.openthemagazine.com/article/books/migrant-nation |title=Migrant Nation }}&lt;/ref&gt; The first migrants came with the Southern Coastal dispersal, ca. 65,000 years ago, whereafter complex migrations within south and southeast Asia took place. With the onset of farming the population of India changed significantly by the migration of Iranian agri-culturalists and the [[Indo-European migrations|Indo-Europeans]], while the migrations of the Munda people and the Tibeto-Burmese speaking people from [[East Asia]] also added new elements.<br /> <br /> ==Ancestral components in the Indian population==<br /> A series of studies since 2009-2019 have shown that the [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is broadly related to West Eurasians and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}}{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} Later, a component termed &quot;AASI&quot; (found to be the predominant element in ASI), was distinguished in subsequent studies. As no &quot;ASI&quot; or &quot;AASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] (exemplified by the [[Onge]], a possibly distantly related population native to the Andaman Islands) is used as an (imperfect) proxy.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}} Narashimhan et al.2019 suggests AASI split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge (and other Andamanese), and Aboriginal Australian ancestors separated from each other.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} {{sfn|Yelmen et al.|2019}} Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI ''&quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time&quot;''.{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}}<br /> <br /> A number of studies since 2018 have presented a refined model of South Asian ancestry with the help of Ancient DNA.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.2019}}{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}} These studies also concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of South Asian population history.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.2019}}<br /> <br /> ====AASI==== <br /> Narashimhan et al 2018 study introduced AASI - ''“Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI)-related - a hypothesized South Asian Hunter-Gathere lineage&quot;'' which represents ''&quot;an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian ancestors separated from each other&quot;'' and is deeply related to Andaman islanders exemplified by the Onge as proxy.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019|p=9}} Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI ''&quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time&quot;''.{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}} ASI was synonyms to AASI before 2018.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} <br /> <br /> {{quote|&quot;This finding is consistent with a model in which essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.&quot;{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}}}<br /> <br /> ====ASI==== <br /> Narasimhan et al. 2018 and Shinde et al. 2019 analyzed ancient DNA remains from the archaeological sites related to Indus Valley civilization, they found them to have a dual ancestry: AASI-related ancestry and Neolithic Iran-related ancestry.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2019}} Narasimhan et al. 2018 study labels this group &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot;.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|&quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;{{sfn|Shinde et al|2019}}}}<br /> <br /> ASI formed as mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group who moved south and mixed further with AASI-related ancestry. &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group did not carry steppe admixture and were instead mixture of Neolithic Iran-related ancestry and hypothesized AASI-related ancestry. According Narasimhan the genetic makeup of the ASI population consisted of about 73% AASI and about 27% from Iranian-related peoples.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> ==== ANI====<br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) with the help of ancient DNA from neolithic Iran and bronze age steppe found that ANI-related ancestry in South Asians can be modeled as a mix of ancestry related to both early farmers of Iran and to people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite biorxiv | last =Lazaridis | first =Iosif | year =2016 | title =The genetic structure of the world's first farmers | biorxiv=059311 |mode=cs2 | ref={{sfnref|Lazaridis et al.|2016}}}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Narasimhan et al. (2018) and Shinde et al (2019) ancient DNA study came to conclusion that neolithic Iran-related ancestry was present in South Asia before the arrival of steppe ancestry.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}{{sfn|Shinde et al|2019}} ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot;'' and migrants from Bronze age steppe.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> ==== East Asian components ====<br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}|group=note}} namely Ancestral [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]] (AAA) and Ancestral [[Tibeto-Burman languages|Tibeto-Burman]] (ATB). While Tibeto-Burmese ancestry is predominantly found in [[Northeast India]], [[Nepal]] and other parts of northern India, Austroasiatic ancestry is commonly found along the eastern [[Indo-Gangetic Plain]].{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322207974_EAST_ASIAN_ANCESTRY_IN_INDIA|title=East Asian ancestry in India|last=Chaubey|first=|date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt; Additionally Yunusbayev et al. (2015) notes that [[Turkic peoples|Turkic]] and [[Mongolic languages|Mongolic]] peoples had some influence on the population of [[south-central Asia]], especially on [[Afghanistan]], [[Pakistan]] and some parts of northern India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yunusbayev|first=Bayazit|last2=Metspalu|first2=Mait|last3=Metspalu|first3=Ene|last4=Valeev|first4=Albert|last5=Litvinov|first5=Sergei|last6=Valiev|first6=Ruslan|last7=Akhmetova|first7=Vita|last8=Balanovska|first8=Elena|last9=Balanovsky|first9=Oleg|last10=Turdikulova|first10=Shahlo|last11=Dalimova|first11=Dilbar|date=2015-04-21|title=The Genetic Legacy of the Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads across Eurasia|url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4405460/|journal=PLoS Genetics|volume=11|issue=4|doi=10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068|issn=1553-7390|pmc=4405460|pmid=25898006}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====2009-2018 studies====<br /> Reich et al. (2009) study found that [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is &quot;genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians, and Europeans&quot;, and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}} These two groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to [[endogamy]] took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; during the Hindu [[Gupta empire|Gupta rule]].{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} Reich et al. stated that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers”.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. (2013) proposed three scenarios regarding the bringing together of the two groups: <br /> *Migrations before the development of agriculture (8,000–9,000 years before present BP). <br /> *Migration of western Asian people together with the spread of agriculture, maybe up to 4,600 years BP.<br /> *Migrations of western Eurasians from 3,000 to 4,000 years BP.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013|p=422-423}} Moorjani suggests that the ANI and the ASI were plausibly present &quot;unmixed&quot; in India before 2,200 BC.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} <br /> <br /> While Reich notes that the onset of admixture coincides with the arrival of Indo-European language,&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich-interview&quot; /&gt; according to Moorjani et al. (2013) these groups were present &quot;unmixed&quot; in India before the Indo-Aryan migrations.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} Gallego Romero et al. (2011) propose that the ANI component came from Iran and the Middle East,{{sfn|Gallego Romero|2011|p=9}} less than 10,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;Dravidian&quot;}} while according to Lazaridis et al. (2016) ANI is a mix of &quot;early farmers of western Iran&quot; and &quot;people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe&quot;.{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016}} Several studies also show traces of later influxes of maternal genetic material{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild2000&quot; /&gt; and of paternal genetic material related to ANI and possibly the Indo-Europeans.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Jones|2015}}{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016}}<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), the ASI are earliest settlers in India, possibly arriving on the [[Peopling of the world|southern exit]] wave out of Africa.{{sfn|Basu|2016}} These two groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to endogamy took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; by the &quot;Hindu Gupta rulers.&quot;{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} <br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}} namely Ancestral Austro-Asiatic (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}} According to Basu et al. (2016), the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct, fifth ancestry, which is &quot;coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> ====2018-2019 studies====<br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI hypothesized South Asian hunter-gathere lineage; and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> Yelmen et al. (2019) study shows that the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for AASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not found in the northern Indian Gujarati (ASI was not detected in the Gujarati when the Onge were used as a proxy), and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from peoples related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common ancestry with the Andamanese, with the Iranian-related ancestry being predominant on average. And the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry). The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;Steppe ancestry&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10 | date = October 2019 | pmid = 31495572 | pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Paleolithic==<br /> {{Main|Paleolithic|Paleolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> ===First modern human settlers===<br /> {{main|Recent African origin of modern humans}}<br /> <br /> ====Pre- or post-Toba====<br /> The dating of the earliest successful migration modern humans out of Africa is a matter of dispute.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}} It may have pre- or post-dated the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba catastrophe]], a volcanic [[Supervolcano|super eruption]] that took place between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at the site of present-day [[Lake Toba]]. According to Michael Petraglia, stone tools discovered below the layers of ash deposits in India at [[Jwalapuram]], Andhra Pradesh point to a pre-Toba dispersal. The population who created these tools is not known with certainty as no human remains were found.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}} An indication for post-Toba is [[Haplogroup L3 (mtDNA)|haplogroup L3]], that originated before the dispersal of humans out of Africa, and can be dated to 60,000–70,000 years ago, &quot;suggesting that humanity left Africa a few thousand years after Toba.&quot;{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}}<br /> <br /> It has been hypothesized that the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba supereruption]] about 74,000 years ago destroyed much of India's central forests, covering it with a layer of volcanic ash, and may have brought humans worldwide to a state of near-extinction by suddenly plunging the planet into an ice-age that could have lasted for up to 1,800 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Supervolcano Eruption – In Sumatra – Deforested India 73,000 Years Ago | date=Nov 24, 2009 | access-date=Mar 1, 2011 | journal=ScienceDaily | url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091123142739.htm | quote=''... new study provides &quot;incontrovertible evidence&quot; that the volcanic super-eruption of Toba on the island of Sumatra about 73,000 years ago deforested much of central India, some 3,000 miles from the epicenter ... initiating an &quot;Instant Ice Age&quot; that – according to evidence in ice cores taken in Greenland – lasted about 1,800 years ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; If true, this may &quot;explain the apparent [[population bottleneck|bottleneck in human populations]] that geneticists believe occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago&quot; and the relative &quot;lack of genetic diversity among humans alive today.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Since the Toba event is believed to have had such a harsh impact and &quot;specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash,&quot; it was &quot;difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref59movel&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Out of Eden: the peopling of the world | first = Stephen | last = Oppenheimer Chaudhuri | publisher=Robinson | date = 2004 | isbn=978-1-84119-894-1 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=H_zwAAAAMAAJ | quote=''... The Toba event specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash. It is difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters. So, we could predict a broad human extinction ...'' }}&lt;/ref&gt; Therefore, it was believed that all humans previously present in India went extinct during, or shortly after, this event and these first Indians left &quot;no trace of their DNA in present-day humans&quot; – a theory seemingly backed by genetic studies.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref67curug&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=The evolution and history of human populations in South Asia: Inter-disciplinary Studies in Archaeology, Biological Anthropology, Linguistics and Genetics | first1 = Michael D. | last1 = Petraglia | first2 = Bridget | last2 = Allchin | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer, 2007 | isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC | quote=... had H. sapiens colonized India before the eruption? The majority of genetic evidence seems to suggest that the initial colonization of India took place soon after the Toba event. It should be noted, however, that on the basis of this evidence, the hypothesis that modern human populations inhabited India before ~74ka and underwent extinction as a result of Toba cannot be ruled out. If population extinction occurred, there would be no trace of their DNA in present-day humans ...|date=2007-05-22 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Pre-Toba tools====<br /> Research published in 2009 by a team led by Michael Petraglia of the [[University of Oxford]] suggested that some humans may have survived the hypothesized catastrophe on the Indian mainland. Undertaking &quot;[[Pompeii]]-like excavations&quot; under the layer of Toba ash, the team discovered tools and human habitations from both before and after the eruption.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=New evidence shows populations survived the Toba super-eruption 74,000 years ago | publisher=University of Oxford | date=Feb 22, 2009 | access-date=Mar 1, 2011 | url=http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | quote=... Newly discovered archaeological sites in southern and northern India have revealed how people lived before and after the colossal Toba volcanic eruption 74,000 years ago. The international, multidisciplinary research team, led by Oxford University in collaboration with Indian institutions, has uncovered what it calls ‘Pompeii-like excavations’ beneath the Toba ash ... suggests that human populations were present in India prior to 74,000 years ago, or about 15,000 years earlier than expected based on some genetic clocks,’ said project director Dr Michael Petraglia ... | url-status=dead | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101230210026/http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | archive-date=30 December 2010 | df=dmy-all }}&lt;/ref&gt; However, human fossils have not been found from this period, and nothing is known of the ethnicity of these early humans in India.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;/&gt; Recent research also by Macauly et al. (2005){{sfn|Macauly|2005}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot; /&gt; and Posth et al. (2016),{{sfn|Posth|2016}} also argue for a post-Toba dispersal.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot;&gt;[http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/science-magazine.php Bradshaw Foundation, ''Human Migration'']&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Early [[South Asian Stone Age|Stone Age]] hominin fossils have been found in the Narmada valley of Madhya Pradesh. Some have been dated to 200- 700,000 BP. It is uncertain what species they represent.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kennedy KA, Sonakia A, Chiment J, Verma KK | title = Is the Narmada hominid an Indian Homo erectus? | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 86 | issue = 4 | pages = 475–96 | date = December 1991 | pmid = 1776655 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.1330860404 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Post-Toba Southern Coastal dispersal====<br /> {{see|Southern Dispersal|Proto-Australoid}}<br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | align = right<br /> | direction = vertical<br /> | width = 200<br /> | header = Migrations routes according to the [[Coastal Migration]] Model<br /> | image1 = Peopling of eurasia.jpg<br /> | alt1 = <br /> | caption1 = Note the route of the mtDNA [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|Haplogroup M]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]], to [[Andaman Islands]] and [[Southeast Asia]].<br /> | image2 = C=M130-Migration.jpg<br /> | alt2 = <br /> | caption2 = Note the route of the Y-DNA [[Haplogroup C-M130|Haplogroup C]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]] to [[Australia]].<br /> | image3 = Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG<br /> | alt3 = <br /> | caption3 = Y-DNA [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and it's descendants. <br /> }}<br /> By some 70-50,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;Hirst&quot;&gt;{{cite web | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm | first = K. Kris | last = Hirst | name-list-format = vanc | title = Southern Dispersal Route – Early Modern Humans Leave Africa | work = About.com }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Posth&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Karmin M, Saag L, Vicente M, Wilson Sayres MA, Järve M, Talas UG, Rootsi S, Ilumäe AM, Mägi R, Mitt M, Pagani L, Puurand T, Faltyskova Z, Clemente F, Cardona A, Metspalu E, Sahakyan H, Yunusbayev B, Hudjashov G, DeGiorgio M, Loogväli EL, Eichstaedt C, Eelmets M, Chaubey G, Tambets K, Litvinov S, Mormina M, Xue Y, Ayub Q, Zoraqi G, Korneliussen TS, Akhatova F, Lachance J, Tishkoff S, Momynaliev K, Ricaut FX, Kusuma P, Razafindrazaka H, Pierron D, Cox MP, Sultana GN, Willerslev R, Muller C, Westaway M, Lambert D, Skaro V, Kovačevic L, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Khusainova R, Trofimova N, Akhmetova V, Khidiyatova I, Lichman DV, Isakova J, Pocheshkhova E, Sabitov Z, Barashkov NA, Nymadawa P, Mihailov E, Seng JW, Evseeva I, Migliano AB, Abdullah S, Andriadze G, Primorac D, Atramentova L, Utevska O, Yepiskoposyan L, Marjanovic D, Kushniarevich A, Behar DM, Gilissen C, Vissers L, Veltman JA, Balanovska E, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Metspalu A, Fedorova S, Eriksson A, Manica A, Mendez FL, Karafet TM, Veeramah KR, Bradman N, Hammer MF, Osipova LP, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Johnsen K, Remm M, Thomas MG, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Willerslev E, Nielsen R, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = A recent bottleneck of Y chromosome diversity coincides with a global change in culture | journal = Genome Research | volume = 25 | issue = 4 | pages = 459–66 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25770088 | pmc = 4381518 | doi = 10.1101/gr.186684.114 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;ReferenceC&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Haber M, Jones AL, Connell BA, Arciero E, Yang H, Thomas MG, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications for the Expansion of Modern Humans Out of Africa | journal = Genetics | volume = 212 | issue = 4 | pages = 1421–1428 | date = August 2019 | pmid = 31196864 | pmc = 6707464 | doi = 10.1534/genetics.119.302368 }}&lt;/ref&gt; only a small group, possibly as few as 150 to 1,000 people, crossed the Red Sea.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |year=2008 |first=Gary |last=Stix | name-list-format = vanc |url=http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-migration-history-of-humans|title=The Migration History of Humans: DNA Study Traces Human Origins Across the Continents|access-date=2011-06-14}}&lt;/ref&gt; The group that crossed the Red Sea travelled along the coastal route around the coast of [[Arabia]] and [[Persia]] until reaching India, which appears to be the first major settling point.&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid15339343&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | issue = | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 | ref = harv }}&lt;/ref&gt; Geneticist [[Spencer Wells]] says that the early travellers followed the southern coastline of Asia, crossed about {{convert|250|km|0|abbr=out}} of sea, and colonized Australia by around 50,000 years ago. The [[Australian Aborigines|Aborigines of Australia]], Wells says, are the descendants of the first wave of migrations.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7358868.stm |title= Human line 'nearly split in two' |publisher= BBC News |date= April 24, 2008 | access-date=2009-12-31 | first=Paul | last=Rincon | name-list-format = vanc }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The oldest definitively identified Homo sapiens fossils yet found in South Asia are [[Balangoda Man|Balangoda man]]. Named for the location in Sri Lanka where they were discovered, they are at least 28,000 years old.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Deraniyagala|first=Siran U.| name-list-format = vanc |date=1989-06-01|title=Fossil Remains of 28,000-Year-Old Hominids from Sri Lanka|journal=Current Anthropology|volume=30|issue=3|pages=394–399|doi=10.1086/203757|issn=0011-3204}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Hypothised substrates===<br /> <br /> ====&quot;Negritos&quot;====<br /> {{see also|Negrito|Andaman Islands|Andamanese people|Sentinelese people|Sentinelese language}}<br /> <br /> The appropriateness of using the label 'Negrito' to bundle together peoples of different [[ethnicity]] based on similarities in stature and complexion has been challenged.{{sfn|Manickham|2009}} The Negrito peoples are more likely descended from the [[Melanesians|Melanesian]]-related settlers of Southeast Asia. Vishwanathan et al. (2004) conclude that &quot;the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot;{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to Vishwanathan et al. (2004), the typical &quot;negrito&quot; features could also have been developed by [[convergent evolution]].{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to [[Gyaneshwer Chaubey]] and Endicott (2013), &quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as 'negritos.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Reich et al. (2009), &quot;ASI, Proto-East-Asians and Andaman islanders&quot; split around 1,700 generations ago. And the Andaman Islanders, though distinct from it, are the closest surviving group to the &quot;ASI&quot; population which contributed varying degrees of ancestry to South Asians.{{sfn|Reich|2009a|p=40}}{{refn|group=note|According to Basu et al. (2016): &quot;The Andaman archipelago was peopled by members of a distinct, fifth ancestry,&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}} yet they also state that &quot;ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}} According to Chaubey and Endicott (2013) Overall, the Andamanese are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians (as well as being closer to Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians).&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Endicott P | title = The Andaman Islanders in a regional genetic context: reexamining the evidence for an early peopling of the archipelago from South Asia | journal = Human Biology | volume = 85 | issue = 1–3 | pages = 153–72 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24297224 | doi = 10.3378/027.085.0307 | url = https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|Chaubey and Endicott (2013):&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;&lt;br&gt;* &quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled less than ~26 ka and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and [[Great Andamanese]] commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)&lt;br&gt;* &quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)}}<br /> <br /> Modern South Asians have not been found to carry the paternal lineages common in the Andamanese, which has been suggested to indicate that certain lineages may have become extinct in India or that they may be very rare and have not yet been sampled.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Endicott P, Gilbert MT, Stringer C, Lalueza-Fox C, Willerslev E, Hansen AJ, Cooper A | title = The genetic origins of the Andaman Islanders | language = English | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 1 | pages = 178–84 | date = January 2003 | pmid = 12478481 | pmc = 378623 | doi = 10.1086/345487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to a large craniometric study (Raghavan and Bulbeck et al. 2013) the native populations of South Asia ([[India]] and [[Sri Lanka]]) have distinct craniometric and anthropologic ancestry. Both southern and northern groups are most similar to each other and have generally closer affinities to various &quot;[[Caucasoid]]&quot; groups. The study further showed that the native South Asians (including the [[Vedda]]) form a distinct group and are not morphologically aligned to &quot;[[Australoid]]&quot; or &quot;[[Negrito]]&quot; groups. The authors state: &quot;''If there were an Australoid “substratum” component to Indians’ ancestry, we would expect some degree of craniometric similarity between Howells’ Southwest Pacific series and Indians. But in fact, the Southwest Pacific and Indian are craniometrically very distinct, falsifying any claim for an Australoid substratum in India.''&quot;<br /> <br /> However, Raghavan and Bulbeck et al., while noting the distinctiveness between South Asian and Andamanese crania, also explain that this is not in conflict with genetic evidence (found by Reich et al. in 2009), which suggests some shared ancestry between Andamanese and South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Raghavan P, Bulbeck D, Pathmanathan G, Rathee SK | title = Indian craniometric variability and affinities | journal = International Journal of Evolutionary Biology | volume = 2013 | pages = 836738 | date = 2013 | pmid = 24455409 | pmc = 3886603 | doi = 10.1155/2013/836738 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the ASI, though not closely related to any living group, are &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. also suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI. The study concluded that “almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West Eurasians in PCA (referred to as “Indian cline”)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Basu et al. 2016 concluded that the Andamanese have a distinct ancestry and are not closely related to other South Asians but are closer to Southeast Asian Negritos, indicating that South Asian peoples do not descend directly from &quot;Negritos&quot; as such.{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> A study by Narasimhan et al. in 2018 observed that samples from an &quot;Indus periphery group&quot; (a population from the periphery of the [[Indus Valley civilization]]) are always mixes of Andamanese-related South Asian hunter-gatherer ancestry (called &quot;AASI&quot;) and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. 2019 shows that the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and not closely related, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for ASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not detected in the northern Indian [[Gujarati people|Gujarati]], and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Genetic studies by Shinde et al. and Narasimhan et al. (both in 2019) on remains from the Indus Valley civilization of northeast India and nearby Pakistan, found a mixture of two kinds of ancestry: ancestry from native South Asian hunter-gatherers distantly related to the Andamanese (ranging from 2% to 50%) and early Iranian farmer-related ancestry (50% to 98%) in those analyzed by Shinde et al. (with the Iranian farmer related ancestry generally greater), and with the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. having 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Vedda====<br /> {{see also|Vedda people}}<br /> Groups ancestral to the modern [[Vedda people|Veddas]] were probably the earliest inhabitants of the area. Their arrival is dated tentatively to 60,000–70,000 years ago. They are genetically distinguishable from the other peoples of Sri Lanka and they show a high degree of intra-group diversity. This is consistent with a long history of existing as small subgroups undergoing significant [[genetic drift]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Deraniyagala SU | title = Pre-and protohistoric settlement in Sri Lanka. | journal = XIII UISPP Congress Proceedings | date = September 1996 | volume = 5 | pages = 277–285 | url = http://www.lankalibrary.com/geo/dera1.html }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Ranaweera_2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Ranaweera L, Kaewsutthi S, Win Tun A, Boonyarit H, Poolsuwan S, Lertrit P | title = Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 59 | issue = 1 | pages = 28–36 | date = January 2014 | pmid = 24196378 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.112 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Holocene==<br /> {{Main|Holocene|Neolithic|Neolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> After the last [[Ice age|glacial maximum]], human populations started to grow and migrate. With the invention of agriculture, the so-called Neolithic revolution, larger numbers of people could be sustained. The use of metals (copper, bronze, iron) further changed human ways of life, giving an initial advance to early users, and aiding further migrations, and admixture.<br /> <br /> ===Neolithic farmers===<br /> {{See also|Dravidian peoples|Indus Valley Civilisation|Mehrgarh}}<br /> <br /> The neolithic farmers are generally linked to the early [[Dravidian peoples]], which are suggested to have migrated from the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] to northern South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/jgen/087/02/0175-0179&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Gallego Romero et al. (2011), their research on lactose tolerance in India suggests that &quot;the west Eurasian genetic contribution identified by Reich et al. (2009) principally reflects gene flow from Iran and the Middle East.&quot;{{sfn|Gallego Romero|202011|p=9}} Gallego Romero notes that Indians who are lactose-tolerant show a genetic pattern regarding this tolerance which is &quot;characteristic of the common European mutation.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | url = http://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2011/09/14/lactose-tolerance-in-the-indian-dairyland/ | first = Rob | last = Mitchum | name-list-format = vanc | title = Lactose Tolerance in the Indian Dairyland | work = ScienceLife | publisher = UChicago Medicine | date = 14 September 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Romero, this suggests that &quot;the most common lactose tolerance mutation made a two-way migration out of the Middle East less than 10,000 years ago. While the mutation spread across Europe, another explorer must have brought the mutation eastward to India – likely traveling along the coast of the Persian Gulf where other pockets of the same mutation have been found.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Asko Parpola, who regards the Harappans to have been Dravidian, notes that Mehrgarh (7000&amp;nbsp;BCE to c. 2500&amp;nbsp;BCE), to the west of the [[Indus River]] valley,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4882968.stm |title=Stone age man used dentist drill | work = BBC News | date = 6 April 2006 }}&lt;/ref&gt; is a precursor of the Indus Valley Civilisation, whose inhabitants migrated into the Indus Valley and became the Indus Valley Civilisation.{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}} It is one of the earliest sites with evidence of farming and herding in [[South Asia]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | work = UNESCO World Heritage | date = 2004 | url = https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1876/ | title = Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | last = Hirst | first = K. Kris | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2005 | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/g/mehrgarh.htm | title = Mehrgarh | work = Guide to Archaeology }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Lukacs and Hemphill, while there is a strong continuity between the neolithic and [[chalcolithic]] (Copper Age) cultures of Mehrgarh, dental evidence shows that the chalcolithic population did not descend from the neolithic population of Mehrgarh,{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} which &quot;suggests moderate levels of gene flow.&quot;{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} They further noted that &quot;the direct lineal descendents of the Neolithic inhabitants of Mehrgarh are to be found to the south and the east of Mehrgarh, in northwestern India and the western edge of the Deccan plateau,&quot; with neolithic Mehrgarh showing greater affinity with chalcolithic [[Inamgaon]], south of Mehrgarh, than with chalcolithic Mehrgarh.{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}}<br /> <br /> According to David McAlpin, the Dravidian languages were brought to India by immigration into India from [[Elam]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin D, Emeneau MB, Jacobsen Jr WH, Kuiper FB, Paper HH, Reiner E, Stopa R, Vallat F, Wescott RW | chapter = Elamite and Dravidian: Further Evidence of Relationship [and Comments and Reply]. | title = Current Anthropology | date = March 1975 | volume = 16 | issue = 1 | pages = 105–15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin DW | chapter = Linguistic prehistory: the Dravidian situation. | title = Aryan and Non-Aryan | date = 1979 | pages = 175–89 | publisher = Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of Michigan | location = Ann Arbor}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McAlpin DW | title = Proto-Elamo-Dravidian: The evidence and its implications. | journal = Transactions of the American Philosophical Society | date = January 1981 | volume = 71 | issue = 3 | pages = 1–55 | doi = 10.2307/1006352 | jstor = 1006352 | url = https://semanticscholar.org/paper/897c74bc98e62cec162ddf7f75af4650c27147e1 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Genetic Disorders of the Indian Subcontinent | first = Dhavendra | last = Kumar | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer | year=2004 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-1-4020-1215-0 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bpl0LXKj13QC | quote=... The analysis of two Y chromosome variants, Hgr9 and Hgr3 provides interesting data (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). Microsatellite variation of Hgr9 among Iranians, Pakistanis and Indians indicate an expansion of populations to around 9000 YBP in Iran and then to 6,000 YBP in India. This migration originated in what was historically termed Elam in south-west Iran to the Indus valley, and may have been associated with the spread of Dravidian languages from south-west Iran (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Renfrew and Cavalli-Sforza, proto-Dravidian was brought to India by farmers from the Iranian part of the Fertile Crescent,{{sfn|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|p=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;mukherjee2001&quot; &gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/bf02717908 | quote = ... More recently, about 15,000-10,000 years before present (ybp), when agriculture developed in the Fertile Crescent region that extends from Israel through northern Syria to western Iran, there was another eastward wave of human migration (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994; Renfrew 1987), a part of which also appears to have entered India. This wave has been postulated to have brought the Dravidian languages into India (Renfrew 1987). Subsequently, the Indo-European (Aryan) language family was introduced into India about 4,000 ybp ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}{{refn|group=note|Derenko: &quot;The spread of these new technologies has been associated with the dispersal of Dravidian and Indo-European languages in southern Asia. It is hypothesized that the proto-Elamo-Dravidian language, most likely originated in the Elam province in southwestern Iran, spread eastwards with the movement of farmers to the Indus Valley and the Indian sub-continent.&quot;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Derenko refers to:&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1987), ''Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins''&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1996), ''Language families and the spread of farming.'' In: Harris DR, editor, ''The origins and spread of Agriculture and Pastoralism in Eurasia'', pp. 70–92&lt;br&gt;* Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, Piazza (1994), ''The History and Geography of Human Genes''.}} but more recently Heggerty and Renfrew noted that &quot;McAlpin's analysis of the language data, and thus his claims, remain far from orthodoxy&quot;, adding that Fuller finds no relation of Dravidian language with other languages, and thus assumes it to be native to India.&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew&gt;{{cite book |last1=Heggarty |first1=Paul |last2=Renfrew |first2=Collin | name-list-format = vanc |year=2014|chapter=South and Island Southeast Asia; Languages|editor-last1=Renfrew|editor-first1=Colin|editor-last2=Bahn|editor-first2=Paul|title=The Cambridge World Prehistory|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vWbwAwAAQBAJ|publisher=Cambridge University Press}}&lt;/ref&gt; Renfrew and Bahn conclude that several scenarios are compatible with the data, and that &quot;the linguistic jury is still very much out.&quot;&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew/&gt;{{refn|group=note|The Elamite-hypothesis has drawn attention in the scholarly literature, but has never been fully accpeted:&lt;br&gt;* According to Mikhail Andronov, Dravidian languages were brought to India at the beginning of the third millennium BCE.{{sfn|Andronov|2003|p=299}}&lt;br&gt;* Kivisild et al. (1999) note that &quot;a small fraction of the West Eurasian mtDNA lineages found in Indian populations can be ascribed to a relatively recent admixture.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1331}} at ca. 9,300 ± 3,000 years before present,{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}} which coincides with &quot;the arrival to India of cereals domesticated in the [[Fertile Crescent]]&quot; and &quot;lends credence to the suggested [[Elamo-Dravidian languages|linguistic connection]] between the Elamite and Dravidic populations.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}}&lt;br&gt;* According to Palanichamy et al. (2015), &quot;The presence of mtDNA haplogroups (HV14 and U1a) and Y-chromosome haplogroup ([[Haplogroup L-M20|L1]]) in Dravidian populations indicates the spread of the Dravidian language into India from west Asia.&quot;{{sfnp|Palanichamy|2015|p=645}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; According to Krishnamurti, Proto-Dravidian may have been spoken in the Indus civilization, suggesting a &quot;tentative date of Proto-Dravidian around the early part of the third millennium.&quot;{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501}} Krishnamurti further states that South Dravidian I (including pre-Tamil) and South Dravidian II (including Pre-Telugu) split around the eleventh century BCE, with the other major branches splitting off at around the same time.{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501-502}}}}<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}, and were preceded by a mixture of “AASI” (ancient ancestral South Asian hunter-gatherers, sharing a common origin with the Andamanese), and early peoples from what is now [[Iran]], who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery population are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> The Iranian farmer-related ancestry in the Indus Valley Civilisation is estimated at 50–98% according to a 2019 study by Shinde et al. (generally a majority) and at 45–82% according to a 2019 study by Narasimhan et al., with the remainder in both studies (2-50% according to Shinde et al, and 11–50% according to Narasimhan et al.) deriving from the &quot;AASI&quot; population (native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common root with the indigenous Andamanese).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to another study the neolithic farmers ancestry component forms the main ancestry of modern South Asians. These neolithic farmers migrated from the [[Fertile Crescent|fertile crescent]], most likely from a region near the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] in modern day Iran, to South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm|title=Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians|website=ScienceDaily|language=en|access-date=2020-01-20}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Austroasiatic===<br /> {{See also|Austroasiatic languages|Munda peoples|Khasi people}}<br /> <br /> According to Ness, there are three broad theories on the origins of the Austroasiatic speakers, namely northeastern India, central or southern China, or southeast Asia.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}} Multiple researches indicate that the Austroasiatic populations in India are derived from (mostly male dominated) migrations from southeast Asia during the Holocene.{{sfn|van Driem|2007a}}{{sfn|Chaubey|2010}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot; /&gt;{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;!--** START OF NOTE **--&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;ASI-AAA&quot;|Nevertheless, according to Basu et al. (2016), the AAA were early settlers in India, related to the ASI: &quot;The absence of significant resemblance with any of the neighboring populations is indicative of the ASI and the AAA being early settlers in India, possibly arriving on the “southern exit” wave out of Africa. Differentiation between the ASI and the AAA possibly took place after their arrival in India (ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population in SI Appendix, Fig. S2).{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}}&lt;!--** END OF NOTE **--&gt; According to Van Driem (2007), <br /> {{quote|...the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.{{sfn|van Driem|2007a|p=7}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey et al. (2011), &quot;AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;{{sfn|Chaubey|2010}}{{refn|group=note|See also:&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | work = Dienekes Anthropology Blog | url = http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html | title = Origin of Indian Austroasiatic speakers | date = 27 October 2010 }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | year = 2010 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/#.UQfBCVQR-Sp | title = Sons of the conquerors: the story of India? }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2013 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ | title = Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India}} }} According to Zhang et al. (2015), Austroasiatic (male) migrations from southeast Asia into India took place after the lates Glacial maximum, circa 10,000 years ago.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Arunkumar et al. (2015), Y-chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, which is typical for Austrosiatic speaking peoples, clearly decreases from Laos to east India, with &quot;a serial decrease in expansion time from east to west,&quot; namely &quot;5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India.&quot; This suggests &quot;a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first = Miguel | last = Vilar | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2015 | url = http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ | title = DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India | work = National Geographic }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Riccio et al. (2011), the Munda people are likely descended from Austroasiatic migrants from southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Riccio ME, Nunes JM, Rahal M, Kervaire B, Tiercy JM, Sanchez-Mazas A | title = The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study | journal = Human Biology | volume = 83 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–35 | date = June 2011 | pmid = 21740156 | doi = 10.3378/027.083.0306 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Alejandro | last1 = Gutman | first2 = Beatriz | last2 = Avanzati | name-list-format = vanc | work = The Language Gulper | url = http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Austroasiatic.html | title = Austroasiatic Languages }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Ness, the Khasi probably migrated into India in the first millennium BCE.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}}<br /> <br /> According to a genetic research (2015) including linguistic analyses, suggests an [[East Asia|East Asian]] origin for proto-Austroasiatic groups, which first migrated to Southeast Asia and later into India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283080042|title=Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro- Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent|last=Zhang| name-list-format = vanc |date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Indo-Aryans===<br /> {{Main|Indo-Aryan peoples|Indo-Aryan migration theory#genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[File:IE expansion.png|400px|thumb|right|Scheme of Indo-European migrations, of which the Indo-Aryan migrations form a part, from c. 4000 to 1000 BCE according to the [[Kurgan hypothesis]].&lt;br /&gt;* The magenta area corresponds to the assumed ''[[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|Urheimat]]'' ([[Samara culture]], [[Sredny Stog culture]]) and the subsequent [[Yamna culture]].&lt;br /&gt;* The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to c. 2500 BCE.&lt;br /&gt;* The orange area to 1000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=30}}]]<br /> <br /> The '''Indo-Aryan migration theory'''{{refn|group=note|The term &quot;invasion&quot; is only being used nowadays by opponents of the Indo-Aryan Migration theory.{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}} The term &quot;invasion&quot; does not reflect the contemporary scholarly understanding of the Indo-Aryan migrations,{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}} and is merely being used in a polemical and distractive way.}} explains the introduction of the [[Indo-Aryan languages]] in the Indian subcontinent by proposing migrations from the [[Sintashta culture]]{{sfn|Anthony|2007|pp=408–411}}{{sfn|Kuz'mina|2007|p=222}} through [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]] and into the northern [[Indian subcontinent]] (modern day [[India]], [[Pakistan]], [[Bangladesh]] and [[Nepal]]). It is based on linguistic similarities between northern Indian and western European languages, and supported by archeological and anthropological research. They form part of a complex genetical puzzle on the origin and spread of the various components of the Indian population.<br /> <br /> The Indo-Aryan migrations started in approximately 1,800 BCE, after the invention of the [[Chariot|war chariot]], and also brought Indo-Aryan languages into the [[Levant]] and possibly [[Inner Asia]]. It was part of the diffusion of [[Indo-European languages]] from the [[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|proto-Indo-European homeland]] at the [[Pontic steppe]], a large area of [[grassland]]s in far [[Eastern Europe]], which started in the 5th to 4th millennia BCE, and the [[Indo-European migrations]] out of the Eurasian steppes, which started approximately in 2,000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=33}}{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}}<br /> <br /> The theory posits that these Indo-Aryan speaking people may have been a genetically diverse group of people who were united by shared cultural norms and language, referred to as ''aryā'', &quot;noble.&quot; Diffusion of this culture and language took place by patron-client systems, which allowed for the absorption and acculturalisation of other groups into this culture, and explains the strong influence on other cultures with which it interacted.<br /> <br /> The idea of an Indo-Aryan immigration was developed shortly after the discovery of the [[Indo-European language family]] in the late 18th century, when similarities between western and Indian languages had been noted. Given these similarities, a [[Proto-Indo-European language|single source or origin]] was proposed, which was diffused by migrations from some original homeland. This linguistic argument{{sfn|Bryant|2001}} is complemented with archaeological, literary, and cultural evidence, and research and discussions on it continue.<br /> <br /> The [[Proto-Indo-Iranians]], from which the [[Indo-Aryans]] developed, are identified with the [[Sintashta culture]] (2100–1800 BCE),{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=390 (fig. 15.9), 405–411}} and the [[Andronovo culture]],{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=49}} which flourished ca. 1800–1400 BCE in the steppes around the [[Aral sea]], present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. The proto-Indo-Iranians were influenced by the [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]], south of the Andronovo culture, from which they borrowed their distinctive religious beliefs and practices. The Indo-Aryans split off around 1800–1600 BCE from the Iranians,{{sfn|Anthony|2007|p=408}} whereafter the Indo-Aryans migrated into the Levant and north-western India.<br /> <br /> ===Tibeto-Burmese===<br /> {{Main|Tibeto-Burman languages}}<br /> <br /> According to Cordaux et al. (2004), the Tibeto-Burmans possibly came from the Himalayan and north-eastern borders of the subcontinent within the past 4,200 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Weiss G, Saha N, Stoneking M | title = The northeast Indian passageway: a barrier or corridor for human migrations? | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 21 | issue = 8 | pages = 1525–33 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15128876 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msh151 | url = http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/8/1525 | access-date = 2008-11-25 | quote = ... Our coalescence analysis suggests that the expansion of Tibeto-Burman speakers to northeast India most likely took place within the past 4,200 years ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A wide variety of Tibeto-Burman languages are spoken on the southern slopes of the Himalayas. Sizable groups that have been identified are the [[West Himalayish languages]] of [[Himachal Pradesh]] and western Nepal, the [[Tamangic languages]] of western Nepal, including [[Tamang language|Tamang]] with one million speakers, and the [[Kiranti languages]] of eastern Nepal. The remaining groups are small, with several isolates.<br /> <br /> The [[Newar language]] (Nepal Bhasa) of central Nepal has a million speakers and a literature dating from the 12th century, and nearly a million people speak [[Magaric languages]], but the rest have small speech communities. Other isolates and small groups in Nepal are [[Dura language|Dura]], [[Raji–Raute languages|Raji–Raute]], [[Chepangic languages|Chepangic]] and [[Dhimal languages|Dhimalish]]. [[Lepcha language|Lepcha]] is spoken in an area from eastern Nepal to western Bhutan.{{sfnp|van Driem|2007|p=296}} Most of the languages of Bhutan are Bodish, but it also has three small isolates, [['Ole language|'Ole]] (&quot;Black Mountain Monpa&quot;), [[Lhokpu language|Lhokpu]] and [[Gongduk language|Gongduk]] and a larger community of speakers of [[Tshangla language|Tshangla]].{{sfnp|van Driem|2011a}}<br /> <br /> ===Crossovers in languages and ethnicity===<br /> {{See also|Adivasi}}<br /> One complication in studying various population groups is that ethnic origins and linguistic affiliations in India match only inexactly: while the [[Kurukh people|Oraon]] [[adivasi]]s are classified as an &quot;Austric&quot; group, their language, called [[Kurukh language|Kurukh]], is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Bilingual Education | first1 = Jim | last1 = Cummins | first2 = David | last2 = Corson | name-list-format = vanc | year=1999 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-0792348061 | publisher=Springer | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=x1aw6j7xHpwC | quote=... over one million speakers each: Bhili (Indo-Aryan) 4.5 million; Santali (Austric) 4.2 m; Gondi (Dravidian) 2.0 m; and Kurukh (Dravidian) 1.3 million ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Nicobarese are considered to be a Mongoloid group,&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Khongsdier R, Mukherjee N | title = Growth and nutritional status of Khasi boys in Northeast India relating to exogamous marriages and socioeconomic classes | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 122 | issue = 2 | pages = 162–70 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 12949836 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.10305 | url = http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | access-date = 2008-11-25 | url-status = dead | quote = ... The Khasis are one of the Indo-Mongoloid tribes in Northeast India. They speak the Monkhmer language, which belongs to the Austro-Asiatic group (Das, 1978) ... | archive-url = https://archive.today/20130105170233/http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | archive-date = 2013-01-05 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Tribal Development in India: The Contemporary Debate | first = Govinda Chandra | last = Rath | name-list-format = vanc | year=2006 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-0761934233 | publisher=SAGE | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=BxDKhOnWwOsC | quote=... The Car Nicobarese are of Mongoloid stock ... The Nicobarese speak different languages of the Nicobarese group, which belongs to an Austro-Asiatic language sub-family ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; and the [[Munda people|Munda]] and [[Santals]] [[Adivasi]] are &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=The Sacred Complex of Munda Tribe | first = Malini | last = Srivastava | name-list-format = vanc | journal=Anthropologist | volume = 9 | issue = 4 | pages = 327–330 | year=2007 | access-date=2008-11-25 | url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T-Anth/Anth-09-0-000-000-2007-Web/Anth-09-4-000-07-Abst-PDF/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M-Tt.pdf | quote=... Racially, they are proto-australoid and speak Mundari dialect of Austro-Asiatic ...| doi = 10.1080/09720073.2007.11891020 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;chaudhuri1993&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=State Formation Among Tribals: A Quest for Santal Identity | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1993 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-8121204224 | publisher=Gyan Publishing House | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=rhMXAAAAIAAJ | quote=... The Santal is a large Proto-Australoid tribe found in West Bengal, northern Orissa, Bihar, Assam as also in Bangladesh ... The solidarity having been broken, the Santals are gradually adopting languages of the areas inhabited, like Oriya in Orissa, Hindi in Bihar and Bengali in West Bengal and Bangladesh ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;culshaw1949&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Tribal Heritage: A Study of the Santals | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1949 | access-date=2008-11-25 | publisher=Lutterworth Press | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=PpFCAAAAIAAJ | quote=''... The Santals belong to his second &quot;main race&quot;, the Proto-Australoid, which he considers arrived in India soon after the Negritos ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; but all four speak Austro-Asiatic languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot; /&gt; The [[Bhil]]s and [[Gondi people|Gonds]] [[Adivasi]] are frequently classified as &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;shankarkumar2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |title=A Correlative Study of HLA, Sickle Cell Gene and G6PD Deficiency with Splenomegaly and Malaria Incidence Among Bhils and Pawra Tribes from Dhadgon, Dhule, Maharastra | vauthors = Shankarkumar U |journal=Studies of Tribes and Tribals |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=91–94 |date=2003 |access-date=2008-11-25 |url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T%20&amp;%20T/T%20&amp;%20T-01-0-000-000-2003-Web/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-174-2003-Abst-PDF/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar.pdf |quote=... The Bhils are one of the largest tribes concentrated mainly in Western Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Eastern Gujarat and Northern Maharastra. Racially they were classified as Gondids, Malids or Proto-Australoid, but their social history is still a mystery (Bhatia and Rao, 1986) ...| doi=10.1080/0972639X.2003.11886488 }}&lt;/ref&gt; yet [[Bhil languages]] are [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]] and the [[Gondi language]] is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{col div|colwidth=30em}}<br /> * [[Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia]]<br /> * [[Early Indians]]<br /> * [[Early human migrations]]<br /> * [[Andamanese]]<br /> * [[Irulas]]<br /> * [[Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis]]<br /> {{colend}}<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note|2}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{reflist|2}}<br /> <br /> ==Sources==<br /> {{refbegin|30em}}<br /> &lt;!-- A --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Andronov |first=Mikhail Sergeevich | name-list-format = vanc |title=A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian Languages |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vhB60gYvnLgC&amp;pg=PA299 |year=2003 |publisher=Otto Harrassowitz Verlag |isbn=978-3-447-04455-4 |ref=harv }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last=Anthony | first=David W. | name-list-format = vanc | year=2007 | title=The Horse The Wheel And Language. How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped The Modern World | publisher=Princeton University Press }}<br /> * {{cite journal |last=Appenzeller |first=Tim | name-list-format = vanc |year=2012 |title=Human migrations: Eastern odyssey. Humans had spread across Asia by 50,000 years ago. Everything else about our original exodus from Africa is up for debate. |journal=Nature |volume=485 |issue=7396 |url=http://www.nature.com/news/human-migrations-eastern-odyssey-1.10560}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Wei LH, Kavitha VJ, Syama A, Arun VS, Sathua S, Sahoo R, Balakrishnan R, Riba T, Chakravarthy J, Chaudhury B | collaboration = The Genographic Consortium | year =2015 | title =A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west | journal =Journal of Systematics and Evolution |volume=53 |issue=6 |pages=546–560 | doi =10.1111/jse.12147| url =https://semanticscholar.org/paper/cb2c767a6f58bc2cf853fbf57ac38f1c5388cc32 }}<br /> &lt;!-- B --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | ref = {{sfnref|Basu et al.|2016}} | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Beckwith |first=Christopher I.| name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Christopher I. Beckwith |title=Empires of the Silk Road: A History of Central Eurasia from the Bronze Age to the Present |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=-Ue8BxLEMt4C |date=16 March 2009 |publisher=[[Princeton University Press]] |isbn=978-1-4008-2994-1 |access-date=30 December 2014 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last=Bryant | first=Edwin | name-list-format = vanc | author-link=Edwin Bryant (author) | year=2001 | title=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate | publisher=Oxford University Press | isbn=978-0-19-513777-4 | title-link=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture }}.<br /> &lt;!-- C --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Cavalli-Sforza | first1 =Luigi Luca | last2 =Menozzi | first2 =Paolo | last3 =Piazza | first3 =Alberto | name-list-format = vanc | year =1994 | title =The History and Geography of Human Genes | publisher =Princeton University Press}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Choi Y, Mägi R, Romero IG, Soares P, van Oven M, Behar DM, Rootsi S, Hudjashov G, Mallick CB, Karmin M, Nelis M, Parik J, Reddy AG, Metspalu E, van Driem G, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C, Thangaraj K, Singh L, Remm M, Richards MB, Lahr MM, Kayser M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Population genetic structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: the role of landscape barriers and sex-specific admixture | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 28 | issue = 2 | pages = 1013–24 | date = February 2011 | pmid = 20978040 | pmc = 3355372 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq288 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Coningham | first1 =Robin | last2 =Young | first2 =Ruth | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Archaeology of South Asia: From the Indus to Asoka, c.6500 BCE–200 CE | publisher =Cambridge University Press}}<br /> &lt;!-- D --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Bahmanimehr A, Denisova G, Perkova M, Farjadian S, Yepiskoposyan L | title = Complete mitochondrial DNA diversity in Iranians | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 8 | issue = 11 | pages = e80673 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24244704 | pmc = 3828245 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0080673 | bibcode = 2013PLoSO...880673D }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | chapter = South Asia and the Middle East | title = Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages | editor-last = Moseley | editor-first = Christopher | publisher = Routledge | year = 2007 | isbn = 978-0-7007-1197-0 | pages = 283–347 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =van Driem | first =George L. | name-list-format = vanc | year =2007b | title =Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies | url =http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf}}<br /> * {{cite journal | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | title = Tibeto-Burman subgroups and historical grammar | journal = Himalayan Linguistics Journal | volume = 10 | issue = 1 | year = 2011a | pages = 31–39 | url = http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | url-status = dead | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20120112220623/http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | archive-date = 12 January 2012 | df = dmy-all }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Bamshad MJ, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Reidla M, Laos S, Parik J, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Papiha SS, Mastana SS, Mir MR, Ferak V, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Deep common ancestry of indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 9 | issue = 22 | pages = 1331–4 | date = November 1999 | pmid = 10574762 | doi = 10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 | url = http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | url-status = dead | df = dmy-all | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20051030014804/http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | archive-date = 30 October 2005 }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Kuz'mina |first=Elena Efimovna | name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Elena Efimovna Kuzmina |editor=J. P. Mallory |editor-link=J. P. Mallory |title=The Origin of the Indo-Iranians |publisher=Brill |year=2007 |isbn=978-90-04-16054-5}}<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Manickham |first=Sandra Khor| name-list-format = vanc |editor-last = Hägerdal | editor-first = Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 | ref = {{sfnref|Metspalu et al.|2011}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | ref = {{sfnref|Moorjani et al.|2013}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | name-list-format = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | journal =bioRxiv | pages =292581 | url =https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Palanichamy MG, Mitra B, Zhang CL, Debnath M, Li GM, Wang HW, Agrawal S, Chaudhuri TK, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = West Eurasian mtDNA lineages in India: an insight into the spread of the Dravidian language and the origins of the caste system | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 134 | issue = 6 | pages = 637–47 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25832481 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-015-1547-4 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = Ruhlen | first = Merritt | authorlink = Merritt Ruhlen | name-list-format = vanc | title = A Guide to the World's Languages: Classification | publisher = Stanford University Press | year = 1991 | isbn = 978-0-8047-1894-3 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2010 | title =A Dravidian solution to the Indus script problem | publisher =World Classical Tamil Conference | url = http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/00133/_A_Dravidian_Soluti_133901a.pdf }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Roots of Hinduism. The Early Arians and the Indus Civilization | publisher =Oxford University Press}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | ref = {{sfnref|Reich et al.|2009}} | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | url = https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x | url = http://repository.ias.ac.in/21333/1/328.pdf }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | year =2002 | publisher =Princeton University Press | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | year =2012 | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | publisher =Random House Publishing Group | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * {{cite book | last=Witzel | first=Michael | name-list-format = vanc | year=2005 | chapter=Indocentrism | editor-last1=Bryant | editor-first1=Edwin | editor-last2=Patton | editor-first2=Laurie L. | title=TheE Indo-Aryan Controversy. Evidence and inference in Indian history | publisher=Routledge | chapter-url=https://archive.org/details/EdwinBryantLauriePattonIndoAryanControversyEvidenceAndInferenceInIndianHistoryRoutledge2005}}<br /> &lt;!-- Z --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Zhang X, Liao S, Qi X, Liu J, Kampuansai J, Zhang H, Yang Z, Serey B, Sovannary T, Bunnath L, Seang Aun H, Samnom H, Kangwanpong D, Shi H, Su B | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro-Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent | journal = Scientific Reports | volume = 5 | pages = 15486 | date = October 2015 | pmid = 26482917 | pmc = 4611482 | doi = 10.1038/srep15486 | bibcode = 2015NatSR...515486Z }}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> ;Overview<br /> * Akhilesh Pillalamarri, ''Where Did Indians Come from'', [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/unraveled-where-indians-come-from-part-1/ part1], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-indians-come-from-part-2-dravidians-and-aryans/ part 2], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-did-indians-come-from-part-3-what-is-caste/ part 3]<br /> ;Negritos<br /> * [https://thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com/tag/negrito/ thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com, ''Negrito'']<br /> <br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:History of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Peopling of the world|India]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&diff=936724836 Peopling of India 2020-01-20T16:42:40Z <p>Ilber8000: RV : Sockpuppet evading ban. Go see Fig. 3</p> <hr /> <div>{{short description|Immigration patterns of different races of people of India}}<br /> {{See also|Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia}}<br /> {{use dmy dates|date=March 2017}}<br /> {{Use Indian English|date=March 2017}}<br /> [[File:Spreading homo sapiens la.svg|thumb|upright=1.5|Successive dispersals of {{color box|#e8e22c}} ''[[Homo erectus]]'' (yellow), {{color box|#e4ca30}} ''[[Homo neanderthalensis]]'' (ochre) and {{color box|#e9252c}} ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' (red).]]<br /> The '''peopling of India''' refers to the migration of ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' into the Indian subcontinent. [[Homo sapiens#Anatomical modernity|Anatomically modern humans]] settled India in multiple waves of [[Early human migrations|early migrations]], over tens of millennia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url= https://www.openthemagazine.com/article/books/migrant-nation |title=Migrant Nation }}&lt;/ref&gt; The first migrants came with the Southern Coastal dispersal, ca. 65,000 years ago, whereafter complex migrations within south and southeast Asia took place. With the onset of farming the population of India changed significantly by the migration of Iranian agri-culturalists and the [[Indo-European migrations|Indo-Europeans]], while the migrations of the Munda people and the Tibeto-Burmese speaking people from [[East Asia]] also added new elements.<br /> <br /> ==Ancestral components in the Indian population==<br /> A series of studies since 2009-2019 have shown that the [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is broadly related to West Eurasians and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}}{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} Later, a component termed &quot;AASI&quot; (found to be the predominant element in ASI), was distinguished in subsequent studies. As no &quot;ASI&quot; or &quot;AASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] (exemplified by the [[Onge]], a possibly distantly related population native to the Andaman Islands) is used as an (imperfect) proxy.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}} Narashimhan et al.2019 suggests AASI split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge (and other Andamanese), and Aboriginal Australian ancestors separated from each other.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} {{sfn|Yelmen et al.|2019}} Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI ''&quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time&quot;''.{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}}<br /> <br /> A number of studies since 2018 have presented a refined model of South Asian ancestry with the help of Ancient DNA.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.2019}}{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}} These studies also concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of South Asian population history.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.2019}}<br /> <br /> ====AASI==== <br /> Narashimhan et al 2018 study introduced AASI - ''“Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI)-related - a hypothesized South Asian Hunter-Gathere lineage&quot;'' which represents ''&quot;an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian ancestors separated from each other&quot;'' and is deeply related to Andaman islanders exemplified by the Onge as proxy.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019|p=9}} Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI ''&quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time&quot;''.{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}} ASI was synonyms to AASI before 2018. Narasimhan further mentioned that there is evidence for a heterogeneous origin of the AASI, including possibly more than three distinct ancestry components, which is complicating the estimations.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} <br /> <br /> {{quote|&quot;This finding is consistent with a model in which essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.&quot;{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}}}<br /> <br /> ====ASI==== <br /> Narasimhan et al. 2018 and Shinde et al. 2019 analyzed ancient DNA remains from the archaeological sites related to Indus Valley civilization, they found them to have a dual ancestry: AASI-related ancestry and Neolithic Iran-related ancestry.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2019}} Narasimhan et al. 2018 study labels this group &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot;.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|&quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;{{sfn|Shinde et al|2019}}}}<br /> <br /> ASI formed as mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group who moved south and mixed further with AASI-related ancestry. &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group did not carry steppe admixture and were instead mixture of Neolithic Iran-related ancestry and hypothesized AASI-related ancestry. According Narasimhan the genetic makeup of the ASI population consisted of about 73% AASI and about 27% from Iranian-related peoples.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> ==== ANI====<br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) with the help of ancient DNA from neolithic Iran and bronze age steppe found that ANI-related ancestry in South Asians can be modeled as a mix of ancestry related to both early farmers of Iran and to people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite biorxiv | last =Lazaridis | first =Iosif | year =2016 | title =The genetic structure of the world's first farmers | biorxiv=059311 |mode=cs2 | ref={{sfnref|Lazaridis et al.|2016}}}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Narasimhan et al. (2018) and Shinde et al (2019) ancient DNA study came to conclusion that neolithic Iran-related ancestry was present in South Asia before the arrival of steppe ancestry.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}{{sfn|Shinde et al|2019}} ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot;'' and migrants from Bronze age steppe.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> ==== East Asian components ====<br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}|group=note}} namely Ancestral [[Austroasiatic languages|Austroasiatic]] (AAA) and Ancestral [[Tibeto-Burman languages|Tibeto-Burman]] (ATB). While Tibeto-Burmese ancestry is predominantly found in [[Northeast India]], [[Nepal]] and other parts of northern India, Austroasiatic ancestry is commonly found along the eastern [[Indo-Gangetic Plain]].{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322207974_EAST_ASIAN_ANCESTRY_IN_INDIA|title=East Asian ancestry in India|last=Chaubey|first=|date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt; Additionally Yunusbayev et al. (2015) notes that [[Turkic peoples|Turkic]] and [[Mongolic languages|Mongolic]] peoples had some influence on the population of [[south-central Asia]], especially on [[Afghanistan]], [[Pakistan]] and some parts of northern India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yunusbayev|first=Bayazit|last2=Metspalu|first2=Mait|last3=Metspalu|first3=Ene|last4=Valeev|first4=Albert|last5=Litvinov|first5=Sergei|last6=Valiev|first6=Ruslan|last7=Akhmetova|first7=Vita|last8=Balanovska|first8=Elena|last9=Balanovsky|first9=Oleg|last10=Turdikulova|first10=Shahlo|last11=Dalimova|first11=Dilbar|date=2015-04-21|title=The Genetic Legacy of the Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads across Eurasia|url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4405460/|journal=PLoS Genetics|volume=11|issue=4|doi=10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068|issn=1553-7390|pmc=4405460|pmid=25898006}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====2009-2018 studies====<br /> Reich et al. (2009) study found that [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is &quot;genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians, and Europeans&quot;, and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}} These two groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to [[endogamy]] took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; during the Hindu [[Gupta empire|Gupta rule]].{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} Reich et al. stated that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers”.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. (2013) proposed three scenarios regarding the bringing together of the two groups: <br /> *Migrations before the development of agriculture (8,000–9,000 years before present BP). <br /> *Migration of western Asian people together with the spread of agriculture, maybe up to 4,600 years BP.<br /> *Migrations of western Eurasians from 3,000 to 4,000 years BP.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013|p=422-423}} Moorjani suggests that the ANI and the ASI were plausibly present &quot;unmixed&quot; in India before 2,200 BC.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} <br /> <br /> While Reich notes that the onset of admixture coincides with the arrival of Indo-European language,&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich-interview&quot; /&gt; according to Moorjani et al. (2013) these groups were present &quot;unmixed&quot; in India before the Indo-Aryan migrations.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} Gallego Romero et al. (2011) propose that the ANI component came from Iran and the Middle East,{{sfn|Gallego Romero|2011|p=9}} less than 10,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;Dravidian&quot;}} while according to Lazaridis et al. (2016) ANI is a mix of &quot;early farmers of western Iran&quot; and &quot;people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe&quot;.{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016}} Several studies also show traces of later influxes of maternal genetic material{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild2000&quot; /&gt; and of paternal genetic material related to ANI and possibly the Indo-Europeans.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Jones|2015}}{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016}}<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), the ASI are earliest settlers in India, possibly arriving on the [[Peopling of the world|southern exit]] wave out of Africa.{{sfn|Basu|2016}} These two groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to endogamy took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; by the &quot;Hindu Gupta rulers.&quot;{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} <br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}} namely Ancestral Austro-Asiatic (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}} According to Basu et al. (2016), the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct, fifth ancestry, which is &quot;coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> ====2018-2019 studies====<br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI hypothesized South Asian hunter-gathere lineage; and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> Yelmen et al. (2019) study shows that the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for AASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not found in the northern Indian Gujarati (ASI was not detected in the Gujarati when the Onge were used as a proxy), and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref name=&quot;:0&quot;&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from peoples related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common ancestry with the Andamanese, with the Iranian-related ancestry being predominant on average. And the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry). The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;Steppe ancestry&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10 | date = October 2019 | pmid = 31495572 | pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Paleolithic==<br /> {{Main|Paleolithic|Paleolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> ===First modern human settlers===<br /> {{main|Recent African origin of modern humans}}<br /> <br /> ====Pre- or post-Toba====<br /> The dating of the earliest successful migration modern humans out of Africa is a matter of dispute.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}} It may have pre- or post-dated the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba catastrophe]], a volcanic [[Supervolcano|super eruption]] that took place between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at the site of present-day [[Lake Toba]]. According to Michael Petraglia, stone tools discovered below the layers of ash deposits in India at [[Jwalapuram]], Andhra Pradesh point to a pre-Toba dispersal. The population who created these tools is not known with certainty as no human remains were found.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}} An indication for post-Toba is [[Haplogroup L3 (mtDNA)|haplogroup L3]], that originated before the dispersal of humans out of Africa, and can be dated to 60,000–70,000 years ago, &quot;suggesting that humanity left Africa a few thousand years after Toba.&quot;{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}}<br /> <br /> It has been hypothesized that the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba supereruption]] about 74,000 years ago destroyed much of India's central forests, covering it with a layer of volcanic ash, and may have brought humans worldwide to a state of near-extinction by suddenly plunging the planet into an ice-age that could have lasted for up to 1,800 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Supervolcano Eruption – In Sumatra – Deforested India 73,000 Years Ago | date=Nov 24, 2009 | access-date=Mar 1, 2011 | journal=ScienceDaily | url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091123142739.htm | quote=''... new study provides &quot;incontrovertible evidence&quot; that the volcanic super-eruption of Toba on the island of Sumatra about 73,000 years ago deforested much of central India, some 3,000 miles from the epicenter ... initiating an &quot;Instant Ice Age&quot; that – according to evidence in ice cores taken in Greenland – lasted about 1,800 years ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; If true, this may &quot;explain the apparent [[population bottleneck|bottleneck in human populations]] that geneticists believe occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago&quot; and the relative &quot;lack of genetic diversity among humans alive today.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Since the Toba event is believed to have had such a harsh impact and &quot;specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash,&quot; it was &quot;difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref59movel&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Out of Eden: the peopling of the world | first = Stephen | last = Oppenheimer Chaudhuri | publisher=Robinson | date = 2004 | isbn=978-1-84119-894-1 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=H_zwAAAAMAAJ | quote=''... The Toba event specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash. It is difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters. So, we could predict a broad human extinction ...'' }}&lt;/ref&gt; Therefore, it was believed that all humans previously present in India went extinct during, or shortly after, this event and these first Indians left &quot;no trace of their DNA in present-day humans&quot; – a theory seemingly backed by genetic studies.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref67curug&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=The evolution and history of human populations in South Asia: Inter-disciplinary Studies in Archaeology, Biological Anthropology, Linguistics and Genetics | first1 = Michael D. | last1 = Petraglia | first2 = Bridget | last2 = Allchin | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer, 2007 | isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC | quote=... had H. sapiens colonized India before the eruption? The majority of genetic evidence seems to suggest that the initial colonization of India took place soon after the Toba event. It should be noted, however, that on the basis of this evidence, the hypothesis that modern human populations inhabited India before ~74ka and underwent extinction as a result of Toba cannot be ruled out. If population extinction occurred, there would be no trace of their DNA in present-day humans ...|date=2007-05-22 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Pre-Toba tools====<br /> Research published in 2009 by a team led by Michael Petraglia of the [[University of Oxford]] suggested that some humans may have survived the hypothesized catastrophe on the Indian mainland. Undertaking &quot;[[Pompeii]]-like excavations&quot; under the layer of Toba ash, the team discovered tools and human habitations from both before and after the eruption.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=New evidence shows populations survived the Toba super-eruption 74,000 years ago | publisher=University of Oxford | date=Feb 22, 2009 | access-date=Mar 1, 2011 | url=http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | quote=... Newly discovered archaeological sites in southern and northern India have revealed how people lived before and after the colossal Toba volcanic eruption 74,000 years ago. The international, multidisciplinary research team, led by Oxford University in collaboration with Indian institutions, has uncovered what it calls ‘Pompeii-like excavations’ beneath the Toba ash ... suggests that human populations were present in India prior to 74,000 years ago, or about 15,000 years earlier than expected based on some genetic clocks,’ said project director Dr Michael Petraglia ... | url-status=dead | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101230210026/http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | archive-date=30 December 2010 | df=dmy-all }}&lt;/ref&gt; However, human fossils have not been found from this period, and nothing is known of the ethnicity of these early humans in India.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;/&gt; Recent research also by Macauly et al. (2005){{sfn|Macauly|2005}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot; /&gt; and Posth et al. (2016),{{sfn|Posth|2016}} also argue for a post-Toba dispersal.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot;&gt;[http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/science-magazine.php Bradshaw Foundation, ''Human Migration'']&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Early [[South Asian Stone Age|Stone Age]] hominin fossils have been found in the Narmada valley of Madhya Pradesh. Some have been dated to 200- 700,000 BP. It is uncertain what species they represent.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kennedy KA, Sonakia A, Chiment J, Verma KK | title = Is the Narmada hominid an Indian Homo erectus? | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 86 | issue = 4 | pages = 475–96 | date = December 1991 | pmid = 1776655 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.1330860404 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Post-Toba Southern Coastal dispersal====<br /> {{see|Southern Dispersal|Proto-Australoid}}<br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | align = right<br /> | direction = vertical<br /> | width = 200<br /> | header = Migrations routes according to the [[Coastal Migration]] Model<br /> | image1 = Peopling of eurasia.jpg<br /> | alt1 = <br /> | caption1 = Note the route of the mtDNA [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|Haplogroup M]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]], to [[Andaman Islands]] and [[Southeast Asia]].<br /> | image2 = C=M130-Migration.jpg<br /> | alt2 = <br /> | caption2 = Note the route of the Y-DNA [[Haplogroup C-M130|Haplogroup C]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]] to [[Australia]].<br /> | image3 = Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG<br /> | alt3 = <br /> | caption3 = Y-DNA [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and it's descendants. <br /> }}<br /> By some 70-50,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;Hirst&quot;&gt;{{cite web | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm | first = K. Kris | last = Hirst | name-list-format = vanc | title = Southern Dispersal Route – Early Modern Humans Leave Africa | work = About.com }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Posth&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Karmin M, Saag L, Vicente M, Wilson Sayres MA, Järve M, Talas UG, Rootsi S, Ilumäe AM, Mägi R, Mitt M, Pagani L, Puurand T, Faltyskova Z, Clemente F, Cardona A, Metspalu E, Sahakyan H, Yunusbayev B, Hudjashov G, DeGiorgio M, Loogväli EL, Eichstaedt C, Eelmets M, Chaubey G, Tambets K, Litvinov S, Mormina M, Xue Y, Ayub Q, Zoraqi G, Korneliussen TS, Akhatova F, Lachance J, Tishkoff S, Momynaliev K, Ricaut FX, Kusuma P, Razafindrazaka H, Pierron D, Cox MP, Sultana GN, Willerslev R, Muller C, Westaway M, Lambert D, Skaro V, Kovačevic L, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Khusainova R, Trofimova N, Akhmetova V, Khidiyatova I, Lichman DV, Isakova J, Pocheshkhova E, Sabitov Z, Barashkov NA, Nymadawa P, Mihailov E, Seng JW, Evseeva I, Migliano AB, Abdullah S, Andriadze G, Primorac D, Atramentova L, Utevska O, Yepiskoposyan L, Marjanovic D, Kushniarevich A, Behar DM, Gilissen C, Vissers L, Veltman JA, Balanovska E, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Metspalu A, Fedorova S, Eriksson A, Manica A, Mendez FL, Karafet TM, Veeramah KR, Bradman N, Hammer MF, Osipova LP, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Johnsen K, Remm M, Thomas MG, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Willerslev E, Nielsen R, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = A recent bottleneck of Y chromosome diversity coincides with a global change in culture | journal = Genome Research | volume = 25 | issue = 4 | pages = 459–66 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25770088 | pmc = 4381518 | doi = 10.1101/gr.186684.114 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;ReferenceC&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Haber M, Jones AL, Connell BA, Arciero E, Yang H, Thomas MG, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications for the Expansion of Modern Humans Out of Africa | journal = Genetics | volume = 212 | issue = 4 | pages = 1421–1428 | date = August 2019 | pmid = 31196864 | pmc = 6707464 | doi = 10.1534/genetics.119.302368 }}&lt;/ref&gt; only a small group, possibly as few as 150 to 1,000 people, crossed the Red Sea.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |year=2008 |first=Gary |last=Stix | name-list-format = vanc |url=http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-migration-history-of-humans|title=The Migration History of Humans: DNA Study Traces Human Origins Across the Continents|access-date=2011-06-14}}&lt;/ref&gt; The group that crossed the Red Sea travelled along the coastal route around the coast of [[Arabia]] and [[Persia]] until reaching India, which appears to be the first major settling point.&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid15339343&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | issue = | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 | ref = harv }}&lt;/ref&gt; Geneticist [[Spencer Wells]] says that the early travellers followed the southern coastline of Asia, crossed about {{convert|250|km|0|abbr=out}} of sea, and colonized Australia by around 50,000 years ago. The [[Australian Aborigines|Aborigines of Australia]], Wells says, are the descendants of the first wave of migrations.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7358868.stm |title= Human line 'nearly split in two' |publisher= BBC News |date= April 24, 2008 | access-date=2009-12-31 | first=Paul | last=Rincon | name-list-format = vanc }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The oldest definitively identified Homo sapiens fossils yet found in South Asia are [[Balangoda Man|Balangoda man]]. Named for the location in Sri Lanka where they were discovered, they are at least 28,000 years old.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Deraniyagala|first=Siran U.| name-list-format = vanc |date=1989-06-01|title=Fossil Remains of 28,000-Year-Old Hominids from Sri Lanka|journal=Current Anthropology|volume=30|issue=3|pages=394–399|doi=10.1086/203757|issn=0011-3204}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Hypothised substrates===<br /> <br /> ====&quot;Negritos&quot;====<br /> {{see also|Negrito|Andaman Islands|Andamanese people|Sentinelese people|Sentinelese language}}<br /> <br /> The appropriateness of using the label 'Negrito' to bundle together peoples of different [[ethnicity]] based on similarities in stature and complexion has been challenged.{{sfn|Manickham|2009}} The Negrito peoples are more likely descended from the [[Melanesians|Melanesian]]-related settlers of Southeast Asia. Vishwanathan et al. (2004) conclude that &quot;the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot;{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to Vishwanathan et al. (2004), the typical &quot;negrito&quot; features could also have been developed by [[convergent evolution]].{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to [[Gyaneshwer Chaubey]] and Endicott (2013), &quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as 'negritos.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Reich et al. (2009), &quot;ASI, Proto-East-Asians and Andaman islanders&quot; split around 1,700 generations ago. And the Andaman Islanders, though distinct from it, are the closest surviving group to the &quot;ASI&quot; population which contributed varying degrees of ancestry to South Asians.{{sfn|Reich|2009a|p=40}}{{refn|group=note|According to Basu et al. (2016): &quot;The Andaman archipelago was peopled by members of a distinct, fifth ancestry,&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}} yet they also state that &quot;ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}} According to Chaubey and Endicott (2013) Overall, the Andamanese are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians (as well as being closer to Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians).&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Endicott P | title = The Andaman Islanders in a regional genetic context: reexamining the evidence for an early peopling of the archipelago from South Asia | journal = Human Biology | volume = 85 | issue = 1–3 | pages = 153–72 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24297224 | doi = 10.3378/027.085.0307 | url = https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|Chaubey and Endicott (2013):&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;&lt;br&gt;* &quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled less than ~26 ka and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and [[Great Andamanese]] commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)&lt;br&gt;* &quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)}}<br /> <br /> Modern South Asians have not been found to carry the paternal lineages common in the Andamanese, which has been suggested to indicate that certain lineages may have become extinct in India or that they may be very rare and have not yet been sampled.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Endicott P, Gilbert MT, Stringer C, Lalueza-Fox C, Willerslev E, Hansen AJ, Cooper A | title = The genetic origins of the Andaman Islanders | language = English | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 1 | pages = 178–84 | date = January 2003 | pmid = 12478481 | pmc = 378623 | doi = 10.1086/345487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to a large craniometric study (Raghavan and Bulbeck et al. 2013) the native populations of South Asia ([[India]] and [[Sri Lanka]]) have distinct craniometric and anthropologic ancestry. Both southern and northern groups are most similar to each other and have generally closer affinities to various &quot;[[Caucasoid]]&quot; groups. The study further showed that the native South Asians (including the [[Vedda]]) form a distinct group and are not morphologically aligned to &quot;[[Australoid]]&quot; or &quot;[[Negrito]]&quot; groups. The authors state: &quot;''If there were an Australoid “substratum” component to Indians’ ancestry, we would expect some degree of craniometric similarity between Howells’ Southwest Pacific series and Indians. But in fact, the Southwest Pacific and Indian are craniometrically very distinct, falsifying any claim for an Australoid substratum in India.''&quot;<br /> <br /> However, Raghavan and Bulbeck et al., while noting the distinctiveness between South Asian and Andamanese crania, also explain that this is not in conflict with genetic evidence (found by Reich et al. in 2009), which suggests some shared ancestry between Andamanese and South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Raghavan P, Bulbeck D, Pathmanathan G, Rathee SK | title = Indian craniometric variability and affinities | journal = International Journal of Evolutionary Biology | volume = 2013 | pages = 836738 | date = 2013 | pmid = 24455409 | pmc = 3886603 | doi = 10.1155/2013/836738 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the ASI, though not closely related to any living group, are &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. also suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI. The study concluded that “almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West Eurasians in PCA (referred to as “Indian cline”)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Basu et al. 2016 concluded that the Andamanese have a distinct ancestry and are not closely related to other South Asians but are closer to Southeast Asian Negritos, indicating that South Asian peoples do not descend directly from &quot;Negritos&quot; as such.{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> A study by Narasimhan et al. in 2018 observed that samples from an &quot;Indus periphery group&quot; (a population from the periphery of the [[Indus Valley civilization]]) are always mixes of Andamanese-related South Asian hunter-gatherer ancestry (called &quot;AASI&quot;) and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. 2019 shows that the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and not closely related, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for ASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not detected in the northern Indian [[Gujarati people|Gujarati]], and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Genetic studies by Shinde et al. and Narasimhan et al. (both in 2019) on remains from the Indus Valley civilization of northeast India and nearby Pakistan, found a mixture of two kinds of ancestry: ancestry from native South Asian hunter-gatherers distantly related to the Andamanese (ranging from 2% to 50%) and early Iranian farmer-related ancestry (50% to 98%) in those analyzed by Shinde et al. (with the Iranian farmer related ancestry generally greater), and with the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. having 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Vedda====<br /> {{see also|Vedda people}}<br /> Groups ancestral to the modern [[Vedda people|Veddas]] were probably the earliest inhabitants of the area. Their arrival is dated tentatively to 60,000–70,000 years ago. They are genetically distinguishable from the other peoples of Sri Lanka and they show a high degree of intra-group diversity. This is consistent with a long history of existing as small subgroups undergoing significant [[genetic drift]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Deraniyagala SU | title = Pre-and protohistoric settlement in Sri Lanka. | journal = XIII UISPP Congress Proceedings | date = September 1996 | volume = 5 | pages = 277–285 | url = http://www.lankalibrary.com/geo/dera1.html }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Ranaweera_2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Ranaweera L, Kaewsutthi S, Win Tun A, Boonyarit H, Poolsuwan S, Lertrit P | title = Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 59 | issue = 1 | pages = 28–36 | date = January 2014 | pmid = 24196378 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.112 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Holocene==<br /> {{Main|Holocene|Neolithic|Neolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> After the last [[Ice age|glacial maximum]], human populations started to grow and migrate. With the invention of agriculture, the so-called Neolithic revolution, larger numbers of people could be sustained. The use of metals (copper, bronze, iron) further changed human ways of life, giving an initial advance to early users, and aiding further migrations, and admixture.<br /> <br /> ===Neolithic farmers===<br /> {{See also|Dravidian peoples|Indus Valley Civilisation|Mehrgarh}}<br /> <br /> The neolithic farmers are generally linked to the early [[Dravidian peoples]], which are suggested to have migrated from the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] to northern South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/jgen/087/02/0175-0179&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Gallego Romero et al. (2011), their research on lactose tolerance in India suggests that &quot;the west Eurasian genetic contribution identified by Reich et al. (2009) principally reflects gene flow from Iran and the Middle East.&quot;{{sfn|Gallego Romero|202011|p=9}} Gallego Romero notes that Indians who are lactose-tolerant show a genetic pattern regarding this tolerance which is &quot;characteristic of the common European mutation.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | url = http://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2011/09/14/lactose-tolerance-in-the-indian-dairyland/ | first = Rob | last = Mitchum | name-list-format = vanc | title = Lactose Tolerance in the Indian Dairyland | work = ScienceLife | publisher = UChicago Medicine | date = 14 September 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Romero, this suggests that &quot;the most common lactose tolerance mutation made a two-way migration out of the Middle East less than 10,000 years ago. While the mutation spread across Europe, another explorer must have brought the mutation eastward to India – likely traveling along the coast of the Persian Gulf where other pockets of the same mutation have been found.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Asko Parpola, who regards the Harappans to have been Dravidian, notes that Mehrgarh (7000&amp;nbsp;BCE to c. 2500&amp;nbsp;BCE), to the west of the [[Indus River]] valley,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4882968.stm |title=Stone age man used dentist drill | work = BBC News | date = 6 April 2006 }}&lt;/ref&gt; is a precursor of the Indus Valley Civilisation, whose inhabitants migrated into the Indus Valley and became the Indus Valley Civilisation.{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}} It is one of the earliest sites with evidence of farming and herding in [[South Asia]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | work = UNESCO World Heritage | date = 2004 | url = https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1876/ | title = Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | last = Hirst | first = K. Kris | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2005 | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/g/mehrgarh.htm | title = Mehrgarh | work = Guide to Archaeology }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Lukacs and Hemphill, while there is a strong continuity between the neolithic and [[chalcolithic]] (Copper Age) cultures of Mehrgarh, dental evidence shows that the chalcolithic population did not descend from the neolithic population of Mehrgarh,{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} which &quot;suggests moderate levels of gene flow.&quot;{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} They further noted that &quot;the direct lineal descendents of the Neolithic inhabitants of Mehrgarh are to be found to the south and the east of Mehrgarh, in northwestern India and the western edge of the Deccan plateau,&quot; with neolithic Mehrgarh showing greater affinity with chalcolithic [[Inamgaon]], south of Mehrgarh, than with chalcolithic Mehrgarh.{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}}<br /> <br /> According to David McAlpin, the Dravidian languages were brought to India by immigration into India from [[Elam]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin D, Emeneau MB, Jacobsen Jr WH, Kuiper FB, Paper HH, Reiner E, Stopa R, Vallat F, Wescott RW | chapter = Elamite and Dravidian: Further Evidence of Relationship [and Comments and Reply]. | title = Current Anthropology | date = March 1975 | volume = 16 | issue = 1 | pages = 105–15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin DW | chapter = Linguistic prehistory: the Dravidian situation. | title = Aryan and Non-Aryan | date = 1979 | pages = 175–89 | publisher = Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of Michigan | location = Ann Arbor}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McAlpin DW | title = Proto-Elamo-Dravidian: The evidence and its implications. | journal = Transactions of the American Philosophical Society | date = January 1981 | volume = 71 | issue = 3 | pages = 1–55 | doi = 10.2307/1006352 | jstor = 1006352 | url = https://semanticscholar.org/paper/897c74bc98e62cec162ddf7f75af4650c27147e1 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Genetic Disorders of the Indian Subcontinent | first = Dhavendra | last = Kumar | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer | year=2004 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-1-4020-1215-0 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bpl0LXKj13QC | quote=... The analysis of two Y chromosome variants, Hgr9 and Hgr3 provides interesting data (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). Microsatellite variation of Hgr9 among Iranians, Pakistanis and Indians indicate an expansion of populations to around 9000 YBP in Iran and then to 6,000 YBP in India. This migration originated in what was historically termed Elam in south-west Iran to the Indus valley, and may have been associated with the spread of Dravidian languages from south-west Iran (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Renfrew and Cavalli-Sforza, proto-Dravidian was brought to India by farmers from the Iranian part of the Fertile Crescent,{{sfn|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|p=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;mukherjee2001&quot; &gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/bf02717908 | quote = ... More recently, about 15,000-10,000 years before present (ybp), when agriculture developed in the Fertile Crescent region that extends from Israel through northern Syria to western Iran, there was another eastward wave of human migration (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994; Renfrew 1987), a part of which also appears to have entered India. This wave has been postulated to have brought the Dravidian languages into India (Renfrew 1987). Subsequently, the Indo-European (Aryan) language family was introduced into India about 4,000 ybp ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}{{refn|group=note|Derenko: &quot;The spread of these new technologies has been associated with the dispersal of Dravidian and Indo-European languages in southern Asia. It is hypothesized that the proto-Elamo-Dravidian language, most likely originated in the Elam province in southwestern Iran, spread eastwards with the movement of farmers to the Indus Valley and the Indian sub-continent.&quot;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Derenko refers to:&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1987), ''Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins''&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1996), ''Language families and the spread of farming.'' In: Harris DR, editor, ''The origins and spread of Agriculture and Pastoralism in Eurasia'', pp. 70–92&lt;br&gt;* Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, Piazza (1994), ''The History and Geography of Human Genes''.}} but more recently Heggerty and Renfrew noted that &quot;McAlpin's analysis of the language data, and thus his claims, remain far from orthodoxy&quot;, adding that Fuller finds no relation of Dravidian language with other languages, and thus assumes it to be native to India.&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew&gt;{{cite book |last1=Heggarty |first1=Paul |last2=Renfrew |first2=Collin | name-list-format = vanc |year=2014|chapter=South and Island Southeast Asia; Languages|editor-last1=Renfrew|editor-first1=Colin|editor-last2=Bahn|editor-first2=Paul|title=The Cambridge World Prehistory|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vWbwAwAAQBAJ|publisher=Cambridge University Press}}&lt;/ref&gt; Renfrew and Bahn conclude that several scenarios are compatible with the data, and that &quot;the linguistic jury is still very much out.&quot;&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew/&gt;{{refn|group=note|The Elamite-hypothesis has drawn attention in the scholarly literature, but has never been fully accpeted:&lt;br&gt;* According to Mikhail Andronov, Dravidian languages were brought to India at the beginning of the third millennium BCE.{{sfn|Andronov|2003|p=299}}&lt;br&gt;* Kivisild et al. (1999) note that &quot;a small fraction of the West Eurasian mtDNA lineages found in Indian populations can be ascribed to a relatively recent admixture.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1331}} at ca. 9,300 ± 3,000 years before present,{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}} which coincides with &quot;the arrival to India of cereals domesticated in the [[Fertile Crescent]]&quot; and &quot;lends credence to the suggested [[Elamo-Dravidian languages|linguistic connection]] between the Elamite and Dravidic populations.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}}&lt;br&gt;* According to Palanichamy et al. (2015), &quot;The presence of mtDNA haplogroups (HV14 and U1a) and Y-chromosome haplogroup ([[Haplogroup L-M20|L1]]) in Dravidian populations indicates the spread of the Dravidian language into India from west Asia.&quot;{{sfnp|Palanichamy|2015|p=645}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; According to Krishnamurti, Proto-Dravidian may have been spoken in the Indus civilization, suggesting a &quot;tentative date of Proto-Dravidian around the early part of the third millennium.&quot;{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501}} Krishnamurti further states that South Dravidian I (including pre-Tamil) and South Dravidian II (including Pre-Telugu) split around the eleventh century BCE, with the other major branches splitting off at around the same time.{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501-502}}}}<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}, and were preceded by a mixture of “AASI” (ancient ancestral South Asian hunter-gatherers, sharing a common origin with the Andamanese), and early peoples from what is now [[Iran]], who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery population are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> The Iranian farmer-related ancestry in the Indus Valley Civilisation is estimated at 50–98% according to a 2019 study by Shinde et al. (generally a majority) and at 45–82% according to a 2019 study by Narasimhan et al., with the remainder in both studies (2-50% according to Shinde et al, and 11–50% according to Narasimhan et al.) deriving from the &quot;AASI&quot; population (native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common root with the indigenous Andamanese).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to another study the neolithic farmers ancestry component forms the main ancestry of modern South Asians. These neolithic farmers migrated from the [[Fertile Crescent|fertile crescent]], most likely from a region near the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros mountains]] in modern day Iran, to South Asia some 10,000 years ago.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm|title=Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians|website=ScienceDaily|language=en|access-date=2020-01-20}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Austroasiatic===<br /> {{See also|Austroasiatic languages|Munda peoples|Khasi people}}<br /> <br /> According to Ness, there are three broad theories on the origins of the Austroasiatic speakers, namely northeastern India, central or southern China, or southeast Asia.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}} Multiple researches indicate that the Austroasiatic populations in India are derived from (mostly male dominated) migrations from southeast Asia during the Holocene.{{sfn|van Driem|2007a}}{{sfn|Chaubey|2010}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot; /&gt;{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;!--** START OF NOTE **--&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;ASI-AAA&quot;|Nevertheless, according to Basu et al. (2016), the AAA were early settlers in India, related to the ASI: &quot;The absence of significant resemblance with any of the neighboring populations is indicative of the ASI and the AAA being early settlers in India, possibly arriving on the “southern exit” wave out of Africa. Differentiation between the ASI and the AAA possibly took place after their arrival in India (ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population in SI Appendix, Fig. S2).{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}}&lt;!--** END OF NOTE **--&gt; According to Van Driem (2007), <br /> {{quote|...the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.{{sfn|van Driem|2007a|p=7}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey et al. (2011), &quot;AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;{{sfn|Chaubey|2010}}{{refn|group=note|See also:&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | work = Dienekes Anthropology Blog | url = http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html | title = Origin of Indian Austroasiatic speakers | date = 27 October 2010 }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | year = 2010 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/#.UQfBCVQR-Sp | title = Sons of the conquerors: the story of India? }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2013 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ | title = Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India}} }} According to Zhang et al. (2015), Austroasiatic (male) migrations from southeast Asia into India took place after the lates Glacial maximum, circa 10,000 years ago.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Arunkumar et al. (2015), Y-chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, which is typical for Austrosiatic speaking peoples, clearly decreases from Laos to east India, with &quot;a serial decrease in expansion time from east to west,&quot; namely &quot;5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India.&quot; This suggests &quot;a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first = Miguel | last = Vilar | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2015 | url = http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ | title = DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India | work = National Geographic }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Riccio et al. (2011), the Munda people are likely descended from Austroasiatic migrants from southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Riccio ME, Nunes JM, Rahal M, Kervaire B, Tiercy JM, Sanchez-Mazas A | title = The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study | journal = Human Biology | volume = 83 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–35 | date = June 2011 | pmid = 21740156 | doi = 10.3378/027.083.0306 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Alejandro | last1 = Gutman | first2 = Beatriz | last2 = Avanzati | name-list-format = vanc | work = The Language Gulper | url = http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Austroasiatic.html | title = Austroasiatic Languages }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Ness, the Khasi probably migrated into India in the first millennium BCE.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}}<br /> <br /> According to a genetic research (2015) including linguistic analyses, suggests an [[East Asia|East Asian]] origin for proto-Austroasiatic groups, which first migrated to Southeast Asia and later into India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283080042|title=Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro- Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent|last=Zhang| name-list-format = vanc |date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Indo-Aryans===<br /> {{Main|Indo-Aryan peoples|Indo-Aryan migration theory#genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[File:IE expansion.png|400px|thumb|right|Scheme of Indo-European migrations, of which the Indo-Aryan migrations form a part, from c. 4000 to 1000 BCE according to the [[Kurgan hypothesis]].&lt;br /&gt;* The magenta area corresponds to the assumed ''[[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|Urheimat]]'' ([[Samara culture]], [[Sredny Stog culture]]) and the subsequent [[Yamna culture]].&lt;br /&gt;* The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to c. 2500 BCE.&lt;br /&gt;* The orange area to 1000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=30}}]]<br /> <br /> The '''Indo-Aryan migration theory'''{{refn|group=note|The term &quot;invasion&quot; is only being used nowadays by opponents of the Indo-Aryan Migration theory.{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}} The term &quot;invasion&quot; does not reflect the contemporary scholarly understanding of the Indo-Aryan migrations,{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}} and is merely being used in a polemical and distractive way.}} explains the introduction of the [[Indo-Aryan languages]] in the Indian subcontinent by proposing migrations from the [[Sintashta culture]]{{sfn|Anthony|2007|pp=408–411}}{{sfn|Kuz'mina|2007|p=222}} through [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]] and into the northern [[Indian subcontinent]] (modern day [[India]], [[Pakistan]], [[Bangladesh]] and [[Nepal]]). It is based on linguistic similarities between northern Indian and western European languages, and supported by archeological and anthropological research. They form part of a complex genetical puzzle on the origin and spread of the various components of the Indian population.<br /> <br /> The Indo-Aryan migrations started in approximately 1,800 BCE, after the invention of the [[Chariot|war chariot]], and also brought Indo-Aryan languages into the [[Levant]] and possibly [[Inner Asia]]. It was part of the diffusion of [[Indo-European languages]] from the [[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|proto-Indo-European homeland]] at the [[Pontic steppe]], a large area of [[grassland]]s in far [[Eastern Europe]], which started in the 5th to 4th millennia BCE, and the [[Indo-European migrations]] out of the Eurasian steppes, which started approximately in 2,000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=33}}{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}}<br /> <br /> The theory posits that these Indo-Aryan speaking people may have been a genetically diverse group of people who were united by shared cultural norms and language, referred to as ''aryā'', &quot;noble.&quot; Diffusion of this culture and language took place by patron-client systems, which allowed for the absorption and acculturalisation of other groups into this culture, and explains the strong influence on other cultures with which it interacted.<br /> <br /> The idea of an Indo-Aryan immigration was developed shortly after the discovery of the [[Indo-European language family]] in the late 18th century, when similarities between western and Indian languages had been noted. Given these similarities, a [[Proto-Indo-European language|single source or origin]] was proposed, which was diffused by migrations from some original homeland. This linguistic argument{{sfn|Bryant|2001}} is complemented with archaeological, literary, and cultural evidence, and research and discussions on it continue.<br /> <br /> The [[Proto-Indo-Iranians]], from which the [[Indo-Aryans]] developed, are identified with the [[Sintashta culture]] (2100–1800 BCE),{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=390 (fig. 15.9), 405–411}} and the [[Andronovo culture]],{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=49}} which flourished ca. 1800–1400 BCE in the steppes around the [[Aral sea]], present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. The proto-Indo-Iranians were influenced by the [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]], south of the Andronovo culture, from which they borrowed their distinctive religious beliefs and practices. The Indo-Aryans split off around 1800–1600 BCE from the Iranians,{{sfn|Anthony|2007|p=408}} whereafter the Indo-Aryans migrated into the Levant and north-western India.<br /> <br /> ===Tibeto-Burmese===<br /> {{Main|Tibeto-Burman languages}}<br /> <br /> According to Cordaux et al. (2004), the Tibeto-Burmans possibly came from the Himalayan and north-eastern borders of the subcontinent within the past 4,200 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Weiss G, Saha N, Stoneking M | title = The northeast Indian passageway: a barrier or corridor for human migrations? | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 21 | issue = 8 | pages = 1525–33 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15128876 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msh151 | url = http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/8/1525 | access-date = 2008-11-25 | quote = ... Our coalescence analysis suggests that the expansion of Tibeto-Burman speakers to northeast India most likely took place within the past 4,200 years ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A wide variety of Tibeto-Burman languages are spoken on the southern slopes of the Himalayas. Sizable groups that have been identified are the [[West Himalayish languages]] of [[Himachal Pradesh]] and western Nepal, the [[Tamangic languages]] of western Nepal, including [[Tamang language|Tamang]] with one million speakers, and the [[Kiranti languages]] of eastern Nepal. The remaining groups are small, with several isolates.<br /> <br /> The [[Newar language]] (Nepal Bhasa) of central Nepal has a million speakers and a literature dating from the 12th century, and nearly a million people speak [[Magaric languages]], but the rest have small speech communities. Other isolates and small groups in Nepal are [[Dura language|Dura]], [[Raji–Raute languages|Raji–Raute]], [[Chepangic languages|Chepangic]] and [[Dhimal languages|Dhimalish]]. [[Lepcha language|Lepcha]] is spoken in an area from eastern Nepal to western Bhutan.{{sfnp|van Driem|2007|p=296}} Most of the languages of Bhutan are Bodish, but it also has three small isolates, [['Ole language|'Ole]] (&quot;Black Mountain Monpa&quot;), [[Lhokpu language|Lhokpu]] and [[Gongduk language|Gongduk]] and a larger community of speakers of [[Tshangla language|Tshangla]].{{sfnp|van Driem|2011a}}<br /> <br /> ===Crossovers in languages and ethnicity===<br /> {{See also|Adivasi}}<br /> One complication in studying various population groups is that ethnic origins and linguistic affiliations in India match only inexactly: while the [[Kurukh people|Oraon]] [[adivasi]]s are classified as an &quot;Austric&quot; group, their language, called [[Kurukh language|Kurukh]], is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Bilingual Education | first1 = Jim | last1 = Cummins | first2 = David | last2 = Corson | name-list-format = vanc | year=1999 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-0792348061 | publisher=Springer | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=x1aw6j7xHpwC | quote=... over one million speakers each: Bhili (Indo-Aryan) 4.5 million; Santali (Austric) 4.2 m; Gondi (Dravidian) 2.0 m; and Kurukh (Dravidian) 1.3 million ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Nicobarese are considered to be a Mongoloid group,&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Khongsdier R, Mukherjee N | title = Growth and nutritional status of Khasi boys in Northeast India relating to exogamous marriages and socioeconomic classes | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 122 | issue = 2 | pages = 162–70 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 12949836 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.10305 | url = http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | access-date = 2008-11-25 | url-status = dead | quote = ... The Khasis are one of the Indo-Mongoloid tribes in Northeast India. They speak the Monkhmer language, which belongs to the Austro-Asiatic group (Das, 1978) ... | archive-url = https://archive.today/20130105170233/http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | archive-date = 2013-01-05 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Tribal Development in India: The Contemporary Debate | first = Govinda Chandra | last = Rath | name-list-format = vanc | year=2006 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-0761934233 | publisher=SAGE | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=BxDKhOnWwOsC | quote=... The Car Nicobarese are of Mongoloid stock ... The Nicobarese speak different languages of the Nicobarese group, which belongs to an Austro-Asiatic language sub-family ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; and the [[Munda people|Munda]] and [[Santals]] [[Adivasi]] are &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=The Sacred Complex of Munda Tribe | first = Malini | last = Srivastava | name-list-format = vanc | journal=Anthropologist | volume = 9 | issue = 4 | pages = 327–330 | year=2007 | access-date=2008-11-25 | url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T-Anth/Anth-09-0-000-000-2007-Web/Anth-09-4-000-07-Abst-PDF/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M-Tt.pdf | quote=... Racially, they are proto-australoid and speak Mundari dialect of Austro-Asiatic ...| doi = 10.1080/09720073.2007.11891020 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;chaudhuri1993&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=State Formation Among Tribals: A Quest for Santal Identity | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1993 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-8121204224 | publisher=Gyan Publishing House | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=rhMXAAAAIAAJ | quote=... The Santal is a large Proto-Australoid tribe found in West Bengal, northern Orissa, Bihar, Assam as also in Bangladesh ... The solidarity having been broken, the Santals are gradually adopting languages of the areas inhabited, like Oriya in Orissa, Hindi in Bihar and Bengali in West Bengal and Bangladesh ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;culshaw1949&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Tribal Heritage: A Study of the Santals | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1949 | access-date=2008-11-25 | publisher=Lutterworth Press | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=PpFCAAAAIAAJ | quote=''... The Santals belong to his second &quot;main race&quot;, the Proto-Australoid, which he considers arrived in India soon after the Negritos ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; but all four speak Austro-Asiatic languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot; /&gt; The [[Bhil]]s and [[Gondi people|Gonds]] [[Adivasi]] are frequently classified as &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;shankarkumar2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |title=A Correlative Study of HLA, Sickle Cell Gene and G6PD Deficiency with Splenomegaly and Malaria Incidence Among Bhils and Pawra Tribes from Dhadgon, Dhule, Maharastra | vauthors = Shankarkumar U |journal=Studies of Tribes and Tribals |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=91–94 |date=2003 |access-date=2008-11-25 |url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T%20&amp;%20T/T%20&amp;%20T-01-0-000-000-2003-Web/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-174-2003-Abst-PDF/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar.pdf |quote=... The Bhils are one of the largest tribes concentrated mainly in Western Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Eastern Gujarat and Northern Maharastra. Racially they were classified as Gondids, Malids or Proto-Australoid, but their social history is still a mystery (Bhatia and Rao, 1986) ...| doi=10.1080/0972639X.2003.11886488 }}&lt;/ref&gt; yet [[Bhil languages]] are [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]] and the [[Gondi language]] is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{col div|colwidth=30em}}<br /> * [[Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia]]<br /> * [[Early Indians]]<br /> * [[Early human migrations]]<br /> * [[Andamanese]]<br /> * [[Irulas]]<br /> * [[Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis]]<br /> {{colend}}<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note|2}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{reflist|2}}<br /> <br /> ==Sources==<br /> {{refbegin|30em}}<br /> &lt;!-- A --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Andronov |first=Mikhail Sergeevich | name-list-format = vanc |title=A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian Languages |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vhB60gYvnLgC&amp;pg=PA299 |year=2003 |publisher=Otto Harrassowitz Verlag |isbn=978-3-447-04455-4 |ref=harv }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last=Anthony | first=David W. | name-list-format = vanc | year=2007 | title=The Horse The Wheel And Language. How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped The Modern World | publisher=Princeton University Press }}<br /> * {{cite journal |last=Appenzeller |first=Tim | name-list-format = vanc |year=2012 |title=Human migrations: Eastern odyssey. Humans had spread across Asia by 50,000 years ago. Everything else about our original exodus from Africa is up for debate. |journal=Nature |volume=485 |issue=7396 |url=http://www.nature.com/news/human-migrations-eastern-odyssey-1.10560}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Wei LH, Kavitha VJ, Syama A, Arun VS, Sathua S, Sahoo R, Balakrishnan R, Riba T, Chakravarthy J, Chaudhury B | collaboration = The Genographic Consortium | year =2015 | title =A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west | journal =Journal of Systematics and Evolution |volume=53 |issue=6 |pages=546–560 | doi =10.1111/jse.12147| url =https://semanticscholar.org/paper/cb2c767a6f58bc2cf853fbf57ac38f1c5388cc32 }}<br /> &lt;!-- B --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | ref = {{sfnref|Basu et al.|2016}} | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Beckwith |first=Christopher I.| name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Christopher I. Beckwith |title=Empires of the Silk Road: A History of Central Eurasia from the Bronze Age to the Present |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=-Ue8BxLEMt4C |date=16 March 2009 |publisher=[[Princeton University Press]] |isbn=978-1-4008-2994-1 |access-date=30 December 2014 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last=Bryant | first=Edwin | name-list-format = vanc | author-link=Edwin Bryant (author) | year=2001 | title=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate | publisher=Oxford University Press | isbn=978-0-19-513777-4 | title-link=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture }}.<br /> &lt;!-- C --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Cavalli-Sforza | first1 =Luigi Luca | last2 =Menozzi | first2 =Paolo | last3 =Piazza | first3 =Alberto | name-list-format = vanc | year =1994 | title =The History and Geography of Human Genes | publisher =Princeton University Press}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Choi Y, Mägi R, Romero IG, Soares P, van Oven M, Behar DM, Rootsi S, Hudjashov G, Mallick CB, Karmin M, Nelis M, Parik J, Reddy AG, Metspalu E, van Driem G, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C, Thangaraj K, Singh L, Remm M, Richards MB, Lahr MM, Kayser M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Population genetic structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: the role of landscape barriers and sex-specific admixture | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 28 | issue = 2 | pages = 1013–24 | date = February 2011 | pmid = 20978040 | pmc = 3355372 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq288 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Coningham | first1 =Robin | last2 =Young | first2 =Ruth | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Archaeology of South Asia: From the Indus to Asoka, c.6500 BCE–200 CE | publisher =Cambridge University Press}}<br /> &lt;!-- D --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Bahmanimehr A, Denisova G, Perkova M, Farjadian S, Yepiskoposyan L | title = Complete mitochondrial DNA diversity in Iranians | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 8 | issue = 11 | pages = e80673 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24244704 | pmc = 3828245 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0080673 | bibcode = 2013PLoSO...880673D }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | chapter = South Asia and the Middle East | title = Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages | editor-last = Moseley | editor-first = Christopher | publisher = Routledge | year = 2007 | isbn = 978-0-7007-1197-0 | pages = 283–347 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =van Driem | first =George L. | name-list-format = vanc | year =2007b | title =Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies | url =http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf}}<br /> * {{cite journal | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | title = Tibeto-Burman subgroups and historical grammar | journal = Himalayan Linguistics Journal | volume = 10 | issue = 1 | year = 2011a | pages = 31–39 | url = http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | url-status = dead | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20120112220623/http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | archive-date = 12 January 2012 | df = dmy-all }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Bamshad MJ, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Reidla M, Laos S, Parik J, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Papiha SS, Mastana SS, Mir MR, Ferak V, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Deep common ancestry of indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 9 | issue = 22 | pages = 1331–4 | date = November 1999 | pmid = 10574762 | doi = 10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 | url = http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | url-status = dead | df = dmy-all | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20051030014804/http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | archive-date = 30 October 2005 }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Kuz'mina |first=Elena Efimovna | name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Elena Efimovna Kuzmina |editor=J. P. Mallory |editor-link=J. P. Mallory |title=The Origin of the Indo-Iranians |publisher=Brill |year=2007 |isbn=978-90-04-16054-5}}<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Manickham |first=Sandra Khor| name-list-format = vanc |editor-last = Hägerdal | editor-first = Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 | ref = {{sfnref|Metspalu et al.|2011}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | ref = {{sfnref|Moorjani et al.|2013}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | name-list-format = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | journal =bioRxiv | pages =292581 | url =https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Palanichamy MG, Mitra B, Zhang CL, Debnath M, Li GM, Wang HW, Agrawal S, Chaudhuri TK, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = West Eurasian mtDNA lineages in India: an insight into the spread of the Dravidian language and the origins of the caste system | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 134 | issue = 6 | pages = 637–47 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25832481 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-015-1547-4 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = Ruhlen | first = Merritt | authorlink = Merritt Ruhlen | name-list-format = vanc | title = A Guide to the World's Languages: Classification | publisher = Stanford University Press | year = 1991 | isbn = 978-0-8047-1894-3 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2010 | title =A Dravidian solution to the Indus script problem | publisher =World Classical Tamil Conference | url = http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/00133/_A_Dravidian_Soluti_133901a.pdf }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Roots of Hinduism. The Early Arians and the Indus Civilization | publisher =Oxford University Press}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | ref = {{sfnref|Reich et al.|2009}} | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | url = https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x | url = http://repository.ias.ac.in/21333/1/328.pdf }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | year =2002 | publisher =Princeton University Press | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | year =2012 | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | publisher =Random House Publishing Group | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * {{cite book | last=Witzel | first=Michael | name-list-format = vanc | year=2005 | chapter=Indocentrism | editor-last1=Bryant | editor-first1=Edwin | editor-last2=Patton | editor-first2=Laurie L. | title=TheE Indo-Aryan Controversy. Evidence and inference in Indian history | publisher=Routledge | chapter-url=https://archive.org/details/EdwinBryantLauriePattonIndoAryanControversyEvidenceAndInferenceInIndianHistoryRoutledge2005}}<br /> &lt;!-- Z --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Zhang X, Liao S, Qi X, Liu J, Kampuansai J, Zhang H, Yang Z, Serey B, Sovannary T, Bunnath L, Seang Aun H, Samnom H, Kangwanpong D, Shi H, Su B | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro-Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent | journal = Scientific Reports | volume = 5 | pages = 15486 | date = October 2015 | pmid = 26482917 | pmc = 4611482 | doi = 10.1038/srep15486 | bibcode = 2015NatSR...515486Z }}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> ;Overview<br /> * Akhilesh Pillalamarri, ''Where Did Indians Come from'', [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/unraveled-where-indians-come-from-part-1/ part1], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-indians-come-from-part-2-dravidians-and-aryans/ part 2], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-did-indians-come-from-part-3-what-is-caste/ part 3]<br /> ;Negritos<br /> * [https://thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com/tag/negrito/ thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com, ''Negrito'']<br /> <br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:History of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Peopling of the world|India]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&diff=935789407 Peopling of India 2020-01-14T19:16:18Z <p>Ilber8000: RV : Narashiman et al. is talking about &quot;splits&quot; see provided source.</p> <hr /> <div>{{short description|Immigration patterns of different races of people of India}}<br /> {{See also|Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia}}<br /> {{use dmy dates|date=March 2017}}<br /> {{Use Indian English|date=March 2017}}<br /> [[File:Spreading homo sapiens la.svg|thumb|upright=1.5|Successive dispersals of {{color box|#e8e22c}} ''[[Homo erectus]]'' (yellow), {{color box|#e4ca30}} ''[[Homo neanderthalensis]]'' (ochre) and {{color box|#e9252c}} ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' (red).]]<br /> The '''peopling of India''' refers to the migration of ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' into the Indian subcontinent. [[Homo sapiens#Anatomical modernity|Anatomically modern humans]] settled India in multiple waves of [[Early human migrations|early migrations]], over tens of millennia.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |url= https://www.openthemagazine.com/article/books/migrant-nation |title=Migrant Nation }}&lt;/ref&gt; The first migrants came with the Southern Coastal dispersal, ca. 65,000 years ago, whereafter complex migrations within south and southeast Asia took place. With the onset of farming the population of India changed significantly by the migration of Iranian agri-culturalists and the [[Indo-European migrations|Indo-Europeans]], while the migrations of the Munda people and the Tibeto-Burmese speaking people also added new elements.<br /> <br /> ==Ancestral components in the Indian population==<br /> A series of studies since 2009-2019 have shown that the [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is broadly related to West Eurasians and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}}{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} As no &quot;AASI&quot; ancient DNA is available, the indigenous [[Andamanese]] (exemplified by the [[Onge]], a possibly distantly related population native to the Andaman Islands) is used as an (imperfect) proxy.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}} Narashimhan et al.2019 suggests AASI ''&quot;split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian ancestors separated from each other&quot;''.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} {{sfn|Yelmen et al.|2019}} Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI ''&quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time&quot;''.{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}}<br /> <br /> A number of studies since 2018 have presented a refined model of South Asian ancestry with the help of Ancient DNA.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.2019}}{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}} These studies also concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of South Asian population history.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.2019}}<br /> <br /> ====AASI==== <br /> Narashimhan et al 2018 study introduced AASI - ''“Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI)-related - a hypothesized South Asian Hunter-Gathere lineage&quot;'' which represents ''&quot;an anciently divergent branch of Asian human variation that split off around the same time that East Asian, Onge and Australian ancestors separated from each other&quot;'' and is deeply related to Andaman islanders exemplified by the Onge as proxy.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019|p=9}} Shinde et al. 2019 found either Andamanese or East Siberian hunter-gatherers fit as proxy for AASI ''&quot;due to shared ancestry deeply in time&quot;''.{{sfn|Shinde et al.|2019}} ASI was synonyms to AASI before 2018.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al.|2019}} <br /> <br /> {{quote|&quot;This finding is consistent with a model in which essentially all the ancestry of present-day eastern and southern Asians (prior to West Eurasian-related admixture in southern Asians) derives from a single eastward spread, which gave rise in a short span of time to the lineages leading to AASI, East Asians, Onge, and Australians.&quot;{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}}}<br /> <br /> ====ASI==== <br /> Narasimhan et al. 2018 and Shinde et al. 2019 analyzed ancient DNA remains from the archaeological sites related to Indus Valley civilization, they found them to have a dual ancestry: AASI-related ancestry and Neolithic Iran-related ancestry.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2019}} Narasimhan et al. 2018 study labels this group &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot;.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> {{quote|&quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;{{sfn|Shinde et al|2019}}}}<br /> <br /> ASI formed as mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group who moved south and mixed further with AASI-related ancestry. &quot;''Indus Periphery-related''&quot; group did not carry steppe admixture and were instead mixture of Neolithic Iran-related ancestry and hypothesized AASI-related ancestry. According Narasimhan the genetic makeup of the ASI population consisted of about 73% AASI and about 27% from Iran-related peoples.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> ==== ANI====<br /> Lazaridis et al. (2016) with the help of ancient DNA from neolithic Iran and bronze age steppe found that ANI-related ancestry in South Asians can be modeled as a mix of ancestry related to both early farmers of Iran and to people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite biorxiv | last =Lazaridis | first =Iosif | year =2016 | title =The genetic structure of the world's first farmers | biorxiv=059311 |mode=cs2 | ref={{sfnref|Lazaridis et al.|2016}}}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Narasimhan et al. (2018) and Shinde et al (2019) ancient DNA study came to conclusion that neolithic Iran-related ancestry was present in South Asia before the arrival of steppe ancestry.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}{{sfn|Shinde et al|2019}} ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot;'' and migrants from Bronze age steppe.{{sfn|Narashimhan et al|2018}}<br /> <br /> ====2009-2018 studies====<br /> Reich et al. (2009) study found that [[Indian subcontinent]] harbours two major ancestral components,{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Metspalu et al.|2011}}{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} namely the ''Ancestral North Indians'' (ANI) which is &quot;genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians, and Europeans&quot;, and the ''Ancestral South Indians'' (ASI) which is clearly distinct from ANI.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016) discern four major ancestries in mainland India, namely ANI, ASI, Ancestral Austro-Asiatic tribals (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1594}}}} These two groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to [[endogamy]] took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; during the Hindu [[Gupta empire|Gupta rule]].{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} Reich et al. stated that “ANI ancestry ranges from 39-71% in India, and is higher in traditionally upper caste and Indo-European speakers”.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. (2013) proposed three scenarios regarding the bringing together of the two groups: <br /> *Migrations before the development of agriculture (8,000–9,000 years before present BP). <br /> *Migration of western Asian people together with the spread of agriculture, maybe up to 4,600 years BP.<br /> *Migrations of western Eurasians from 3,000 to 4,000 years BP.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013|p=422-423}} Moorjani suggests that the ANI and the ASI were plausibly present &quot;unmixed&quot; in India before 2,200 BC.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} <br /> <br /> While Reich notes that the onset of admixture coincides with the arrival of Indo-European language,&lt;ref name=&quot;Reich-interview&quot; /&gt; according to Moorjani et al. (2013) these groups were present &quot;unmixed&quot; in India before the Indo-Aryan migrations.{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} Gallego Romero et al. (2011) propose that the ANI component came from Iran and the Middle East,{{sfn|Gallego Romero|2011|p=9}} less than 10,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;Dravidian&quot;}} while according to Lazaridis et al. (2016) ANI is a mix of &quot;early farmers of western Iran&quot; and &quot;people of the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe&quot;.{{sfn|Lazaridis et al.|2016}} Several studies also show traces of later influxes of maternal genetic material{{sfn|Kivisild et al.|1999}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Kivisild2000&quot; /&gt; and of paternal genetic material related to ANI and possibly the Indo-Europeans.{{sfn|Reich et al.|2009}}{{sfn|Jones|2015}}{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016}}<br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), the ASI are earliest settlers in India, possibly arriving on the [[Peopling of the world|southern exit]] wave out of Africa.{{sfn|Basu|2016}} These two groups mixed in India between 4,200 and 1,900 years ago (2200 BCE-100 CE), whereafter a shift to endogamy took place,{{sfn|Moorjani et al.|2013}} possibly by the enforcement of &quot;social values and norms&quot; by the &quot;Hindu Gupta rulers.&quot;{{sfn|Basu et al.|2016|p=1598}} <br /> <br /> According to Basu et al. (2016), mainland India harbors two additional distinct ancestral components which have contributed to the gene pools of the [[Indian subcontinent]],{{refn|group=note|Basu et al. (2016): &quot;By sampling populations, especially the autochthonous tribal populations, which represent the geographical, ethnic, and linguistic diversity of India, we have inferred that at least four distinct ancestral components—not two, as estimated earlier have contributed to the gene pools of extant populations of mainland India.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}} namely Ancestral Austro-Asiatic (AAA) and Ancestral Tibeto-Burman (ATB).{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}} According to Basu et al. (2016), the populations of the [[Andaman Islands]] archipelago form a distinct, fifth ancestry, which is &quot;coancestral to [[Oceania|Oceanic]] populations.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> ====2018-2019 studies====<br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} They were preceded by a mixture of AASI hypothesized South Asian hunter-gathere lineage; and Iranian agriculturalists who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE, and &quot;must have reached the Indus Valley by the 4th millennium BCE&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} According to Narasimhan et al., this mixed population, which probably was native to the Indus Valley Civilisation, &quot;contributed in large proportions to both the ANI and ASI&quot;, which took shape during the 2nd millennium BCE. ANI formed out of a mixture of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; and migrants from the steppe, while ASI was formed out of &quot;''Indus Periphery''-related groups&quot; who moved south and mixed further with local hunter-gatherers. The ancestry of the ASI population is suggested to have averaged about 73% from the AASI and 27% from Iranian-related farmers. Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery group are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; (with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population).{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> Yelmen et al. (2019) study shows that the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for ASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not found in the northern Indian Gujarati (ASI is was not detected in the Gujarati when the Onge were used as a proxy), and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Two genetic studies (Shinde et al. 2019 and Narasimhan et al. 2019,) analysing remains from the Indus Valley civilisation (of parts of Bronze Age Northwest India and East Pakistan), found them to have a mixture of ancestry: Shinde et al. found their samples to have about 50-98% of their genome from peoples related to early Iranian farmers, and from 2-50% of their genome from native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common ancestry with the Andamanese, with the Iranian-related ancestry being predominant on average. And the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. had 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry). The analysed samples of both studies have little to none of the &quot;Steppe ancestry&quot; component associated with later Indo-European migrations into India. The authors found that the respective amounts of those ancestries varied significantly between individuals, and concluded that more samples are needed to get the full picture of Indian population history.&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Shinde V, Narasimhan VM, Rohland N, Mallick S, Mah M, Lipson M, Nakatsuka N, Adamski N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Ferry M, Lawson AM, Michel M, Oppenheimer J, Stewardson K, Jadhav N, Kim YJ, Chatterjee M, Munshi A, Panyam A, Waghmare P, Yadav Y, Patel H, Kaushik A, Thangaraj K, Meyer M, Patterson N, Rai N, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = An Ancient Harappan Genome Lacks Ancestry from Steppe Pastoralists or Iranian Farmers | journal = Cell | volume = 179 | issue = 3 | pages = 729–735.e10 | date = October 2019 | pmid = 31495572 | pmc = 6800651 | doi = 10.1016/j.cell.2019.08.048 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Narasimhan VM, Patterson N, Moorjani P, Rohland N, Bernardos R, Mallick S, Lazaridis I, Nakatsuka N, Olalde I, Lipson M, Kim AM, Olivieri LM, Coppa A, Vidale M, Mallory J, Moiseyev V, Kitov E, Monge J, Adamski N, Alex N, Broomandkhoshbacht N, Candilio F, Callan K, Cheronet O, Culleton BJ, Ferry M, Fernandes D, Freilich S, Gamarra B, Gaudio D, Hajdinjak M, Harney É, Harper TK, Keating D, Lawson AM, Mah M, Mandl K, Michel M, Novak M, Oppenheimer J, Rai N, Sirak K, Slon V, Stewardson K, Zalzala F, Zhang Z, Akhatov G, Bagashev AN, Bagnera A, Baitanayev B, Bendezu-Sarmiento J, Bissembaev AA, Bonora GL, Chargynov TT, Chikisheva T, Dashkovskiy PK, Derevianko A, Dobeš M, Douka K, Dubova N, Duisengali MN, Enshin D, Epimakhov A, Fribus AV, Fuller D, Goryachev A, Gromov A, Grushin SP, Hanks B, Judd M, Kazizov E, Khokhlov A, Krygin AP, Kupriyanova E, Kuznetsov P, Luiselli D, Maksudov F, Mamedov AM, Mamirov TB, Meiklejohn C, Merrett DC, Micheli R, Mochalov O, Mustafokulov S, Nayak A, Pettener D, Potts R, Razhev D, Rykun M, Sarno S, Savenkova TM, Sikhymbaeva K, Slepchenko SM, Soltobaev OA, Stepanova N, Svyatko S, Tabaldiev K, Teschler-Nicola M, Tishkin AA, Tkachev VV, Vasilyev S, Velemínský P, Voyakin D, Yermolayeva A, Zahir M, Zubkov VS, Zubova A, Shinde VS, Lalueza-Fox C, Meyer M, Anthony D, Boivin N, Thangaraj K, Kennett DJ, Frachetti M, Pinhasi R, Reich D | display-authors = 6 | title = The formation of human populations in South and Central Asia | journal = Science | volume = 365 | issue = 6457 | pages = eaat7487 | date = September 2019 | pmid = 31488661 | pmc = 6822619 | doi = 10.1126/science.aat7487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Paleolithic==<br /> {{Main|Paleolithic|Paleolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> ===First modern human settlers===<br /> {{main|Recent African origin of modern humans}}<br /> <br /> ====Pre- or post-Toba====<br /> The dating of the earliest successful migration modern humans out of Africa is a matter of dispute.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}} It may have pre- or post-dated the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba catastrophe]], a volcanic [[Supervolcano|super eruption]] that took place between 69,000 and 77,000 years ago at the site of present-day [[Lake Toba]]. According to Michael Petraglia, stone tools discovered below the layers of ash deposits in India at [[Jwalapuram]], Andhra Pradesh point to a pre-Toba dispersal. The population who created these tools is not known with certainty as no human remains were found.{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}} An indication for post-Toba is [[Haplogroup L3 (mtDNA)|haplogroup L3]], that originated before the dispersal of humans out of Africa, and can be dated to 60,000–70,000 years ago, &quot;suggesting that humanity left Africa a few thousand years after Toba.&quot;{{sfn|Appenzeller|2015}}<br /> <br /> It has been hypothesized that the [[Toba catastrophe theory|Toba supereruption]] about 74,000 years ago destroyed much of India's central forests, covering it with a layer of volcanic ash, and may have brought humans worldwide to a state of near-extinction by suddenly plunging the planet into an ice-age that could have lasted for up to 1,800 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Supervolcano Eruption – In Sumatra – Deforested India 73,000 Years Ago | date=Nov 24, 2009 | access-date=Mar 1, 2011 | journal=ScienceDaily | url=https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091123142739.htm | quote=''... new study provides &quot;incontrovertible evidence&quot; that the volcanic super-eruption of Toba on the island of Sumatra about 73,000 years ago deforested much of central India, some 3,000 miles from the epicenter ... initiating an &quot;Instant Ice Age&quot; that – according to evidence in ice cores taken in Greenland – lasted about 1,800 years ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; If true, this may &quot;explain the apparent [[population bottleneck|bottleneck in human populations]] that geneticists believe occurred between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago&quot; and the relative &quot;lack of genetic diversity among humans alive today.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;sciencedaily2009hds&quot;/&gt;<br /> <br /> Since the Toba event is believed to have had such a harsh impact and &quot;specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash,&quot; it was &quot;difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ref59movel&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Out of Eden: the peopling of the world | first = Stephen | last = Oppenheimer Chaudhuri | publisher=Robinson | date = 2004 | isbn=978-1-84119-894-1 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=H_zwAAAAMAAJ | quote=''... The Toba event specifically blanketed the Indian subcontinent in a deep layer of ash. It is difficult to see how India's first colonists could have survived this greatest of all disasters. So, we could predict a broad human extinction ...'' }}&lt;/ref&gt; Therefore, it was believed that all humans previously present in India went extinct during, or shortly after, this event and these first Indians left &quot;no trace of their DNA in present-day humans&quot; – a theory seemingly backed by genetic studies.&lt;ref name=&quot;ref67curug&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=The evolution and history of human populations in South Asia: Inter-disciplinary Studies in Archaeology, Biological Anthropology, Linguistics and Genetics | first1 = Michael D. | last1 = Petraglia | first2 = Bridget | last2 = Allchin | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer, 2007 | isbn=978-1-4020-5561-4 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Qm9GfjNlnRwC | quote=... had H. sapiens colonized India before the eruption? The majority of genetic evidence seems to suggest that the initial colonization of India took place soon after the Toba event. It should be noted, however, that on the basis of this evidence, the hypothesis that modern human populations inhabited India before ~74ka and underwent extinction as a result of Toba cannot be ruled out. If population extinction occurred, there would be no trace of their DNA in present-day humans ...|date=2007-05-22 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Pre-Toba tools====<br /> Research published in 2009 by a team led by Michael Petraglia of the [[University of Oxford]] suggested that some humans may have survived the hypothesized catastrophe on the Indian mainland. Undertaking &quot;[[Pompeii]]-like excavations&quot; under the layer of Toba ash, the team discovered tools and human habitations from both before and after the eruption.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=New evidence shows populations survived the Toba super-eruption 74,000 years ago | publisher=University of Oxford | date=Feb 22, 2009 | access-date=Mar 1, 2011 | url=http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | quote=... Newly discovered archaeological sites in southern and northern India have revealed how people lived before and after the colossal Toba volcanic eruption 74,000 years ago. The international, multidisciplinary research team, led by Oxford University in collaboration with Indian institutions, has uncovered what it calls ‘Pompeii-like excavations’ beneath the Toba ash ... suggests that human populations were present in India prior to 74,000 years ago, or about 15,000 years earlier than expected based on some genetic clocks,’ said project director Dr Michael Petraglia ... | url-status=dead | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101230210026/http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_releases_for_journalists/100222_1.html | archive-date=30 December 2010 | df=dmy-all }}&lt;/ref&gt; However, human fossils have not been found from this period, and nothing is known of the ethnicity of these early humans in India.&lt;ref name=&quot;oxford2009jhs&quot;/&gt; Recent research also by Macauly et al. (2005){{sfn|Macauly|2005}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot; /&gt; and Posth et al. (2016),{{sfn|Posth|2016}} also argue for a post-Toba dispersal.&lt;ref name=&quot;Bradshaw-migration&quot;&gt;[http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/science-magazine.php Bradshaw Foundation, ''Human Migration'']&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> Early [[South Asian Stone Age|Stone Age]] hominin fossils have been found in the Narmada valley of Madhya Pradesh. Some have been dated to 200- 700,000 BP. It is uncertain what species they represent.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Kennedy KA, Sonakia A, Chiment J, Verma KK | title = Is the Narmada hominid an Indian Homo erectus? | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 86 | issue = 4 | pages = 475–96 | date = December 1991 | pmid = 1776655 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.1330860404 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Post-Toba Southern Coastal dispersal====<br /> {{see|Southern Dispersal|Proto-Australoid}}<br /> {{multiple image|caption_align=center|header_align=center<br /> | align = right<br /> | direction = vertical<br /> | width = 200<br /> | header = Migrations routes according to the [[Coastal Migration]] Model<br /> | image1 = Peopling of eurasia.jpg<br /> | alt1 = <br /> | caption1 = Note the route of the mtDNA [[Haplogroup M (mtDNA)|Haplogroup M]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]], to [[Andaman Islands]] and [[Southeast Asia]].<br /> | image2 = C=M130-Migration.jpg<br /> | alt2 = <br /> | caption2 = Note the route of the Y-DNA [[Haplogroup C-M130|Haplogroup C]] through the [[Indian subcontinent]] to [[Australia]].<br /> | image3 = Haplogroup F (Y-DNA).PNG<br /> | alt3 = <br /> | caption3 = Y-DNA [[Haplogroup F (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup F]] and it's descendants. <br /> }}<br /> By some 70-50,000 years ago,&lt;ref name=&quot;Hirst&quot;&gt;{{cite web | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/sterms/qt/southern_disper.htm | first = K. Kris | last = Hirst | name-list-format = vanc | title = Southern Dispersal Route – Early Modern Humans Leave Africa | work = About.com }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Posth&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Karmin M, Saag L, Vicente M, Wilson Sayres MA, Järve M, Talas UG, Rootsi S, Ilumäe AM, Mägi R, Mitt M, Pagani L, Puurand T, Faltyskova Z, Clemente F, Cardona A, Metspalu E, Sahakyan H, Yunusbayev B, Hudjashov G, DeGiorgio M, Loogväli EL, Eichstaedt C, Eelmets M, Chaubey G, Tambets K, Litvinov S, Mormina M, Xue Y, Ayub Q, Zoraqi G, Korneliussen TS, Akhatova F, Lachance J, Tishkoff S, Momynaliev K, Ricaut FX, Kusuma P, Razafindrazaka H, Pierron D, Cox MP, Sultana GN, Willerslev R, Muller C, Westaway M, Lambert D, Skaro V, Kovačevic L, Turdikulova S, Dalimova D, Khusainova R, Trofimova N, Akhmetova V, Khidiyatova I, Lichman DV, Isakova J, Pocheshkhova E, Sabitov Z, Barashkov NA, Nymadawa P, Mihailov E, Seng JW, Evseeva I, Migliano AB, Abdullah S, Andriadze G, Primorac D, Atramentova L, Utevska O, Yepiskoposyan L, Marjanovic D, Kushniarevich A, Behar DM, Gilissen C, Vissers L, Veltman JA, Balanovska E, Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Metspalu A, Fedorova S, Eriksson A, Manica A, Mendez FL, Karafet TM, Veeramah KR, Bradman N, Hammer MF, Osipova LP, Balanovsky O, Khusnutdinova EK, Johnsen K, Remm M, Thomas MG, Tyler-Smith C, Underhill PA, Willerslev E, Nielsen R, Metspalu M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = A recent bottleneck of Y chromosome diversity coincides with a global change in culture | journal = Genome Research | volume = 25 | issue = 4 | pages = 459–66 | date = April 2015 | pmid = 25770088 | pmc = 4381518 | doi = 10.1101/gr.186684.114 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;ReferenceC&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Haber M, Jones AL, Connell BA, Arciero E, Yang H, Thomas MG, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C | display-authors = 6 | title = A Rare Deep-Rooting D0 African Y-Chromosomal Haplogroup and Its Implications for the Expansion of Modern Humans Out of Africa | journal = Genetics | volume = 212 | issue = 4 | pages = 1421–1428 | date = August 2019 | pmid = 31196864 | pmc = 6707464 | doi = 10.1534/genetics.119.302368 }}&lt;/ref&gt; only a small group, possibly as few as 150 to 1,000 people, crossed the Red Sea.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web |year=2008 |first=Gary |last=Stix | name-list-format = vanc |url=http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-migration-history-of-humans|title=The Migration History of Humans: DNA Study Traces Human Origins Across the Continents|access-date=2011-06-14}}&lt;/ref&gt; The group that crossed the Red Sea travelled along the coastal route around the coast of [[Arabia]] and [[Persia]] until reaching India, which appears to be the first major settling point.&lt;ref name=&quot;pmid15339343&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Kivisild T, Metspalu E, Parik J, Hudjashov G, Kaldma K, Serk P, Karmin M, Behar DM, Gilbert MT, Endicott P, Mastana S, Papiha SS, Skorecki K, Torroni A, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in south and southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans | journal = BMC Genetics | volume = 5 | issue = | pages = 26 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15339343 | pmc = 516768 | doi = 10.1186/1471-2156-5-26 | ref = harv }}&lt;/ref&gt; Geneticist [[Spencer Wells]] says that the early travellers followed the southern coastline of Asia, crossed about {{convert|250|km|0|abbr=out}} of sea, and colonized Australia by around 50,000 years ago. The [[Australian Aborigines|Aborigines of Australia]], Wells says, are the descendants of the first wave of migrations.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7358868.stm |title= Human line 'nearly split in two' |publisher= BBC News |date= April 24, 2008 | access-date=2009-12-31 | first=Paul | last=Rincon | name-list-format = vanc }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> The oldest definitively identified Homo sapiens fossils yet found in South Asia are [[Balangoda Man|Balangoda man]]. Named for the location in Sri Lanka where they were discovered, they are at least 28,000 years old.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Deraniyagala|first=Siran U.| name-list-format = vanc |date=1989-06-01|title=Fossil Remains of 28,000-Year-Old Hominids from Sri Lanka|journal=Current Anthropology|volume=30|issue=3|pages=394–399|doi=10.1086/203757|issn=0011-3204}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Hypothised substrates===<br /> <br /> ====&quot;Negritos&quot;====<br /> {{see also|Negrito|Andaman Islands|Andamanese people|Sentinelese people|Sentinelese language}}<br /> <br /> The appropriateness of using the label 'Negrito' to bundle together peoples of different [[ethnicity]] based on similarities in stature and complexion has been challenged.{{sfn|Manickham|2009}} The Negrito peoples are more likely descended from the [[Melanesians|Melanesian]]-related settlers of Southeast Asia. Vishwanathan et al. (2004) conclude that &quot;the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot;{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to Vishwanathan et al. (2004), the typical &quot;negrito&quot; features could also have been developed by [[convergent evolution]].{{sfn|Vishwanathan|2004}} According to [[Gyaneshwer Chaubey]] and Endicott (2013), &quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as 'negritos.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Reich et al. (2009), &quot;ASI, Proto-East-Asians and Andaman islanders&quot; split around 1,700 generations ago. And the Andaman Islanders, though distinct from it, are the closest surviving group to the &quot;ASI&quot; population which contributed varying degrees of ancestry to South Asians.{{sfn|Reich|2009a|p=40}}{{refn|group=note|According to Basu et al. (2016): &quot;The Andaman archipelago was peopled by members of a distinct, fifth ancestry,&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}} yet they also state that &quot;ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population.&quot;{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}} According to Chaubey and Endicott (2013) Overall, the Andamanese are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians (as well as being closer to Southeast Asian Negritos and Melanesians).&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Endicott P | title = The Andaman Islanders in a regional genetic context: reexamining the evidence for an early peopling of the archipelago from South Asia | journal = Human Biology | volume = 85 | issue = 1–3 | pages = 153–72 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24297224 | doi = 10.3378/027.085.0307 | url = https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/humbiol/vol85/iss1/7 }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{refn|group=note|Chaubey and Endicott (2013):&lt;ref name=&quot;Chabey-Endicott2103&quot; /&gt;&lt;br&gt;* &quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled less than ~26 ka and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and [[Great Andamanese]] commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)&lt;br&gt;* &quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)}}<br /> <br /> Modern South Asians have not been found to carry the paternal lineages common in the Andamanese, which has been suggested to indicate that certain lineages may have become extinct in India or that they may be very rare and have not yet been sampled.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Endicott P, Gilbert MT, Stringer C, Lalueza-Fox C, Willerslev E, Hansen AJ, Cooper A | title = The genetic origins of the Andaman Islanders | language = English | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 72 | issue = 1 | pages = 178–84 | date = January 2003 | pmid = 12478481 | pmc = 378623 | doi = 10.1086/345487 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to a large craniometric study (Raghavan and Bulbeck et al. 2013) the native populations of South Asia ([[India]] and [[Sri Lanka]]) have distinct craniometric and anthropologic ancestry. Both southern and northern groups are most similar to each other and have generally closer affinities to various &quot;[[Caucasoid]]&quot; groups. The study further showed that the native South Asians (including the [[Vedda]]) form a distinct group and are not morphologically aligned to &quot;[[Australoid]]&quot; or &quot;[[Negrito]]&quot; groups. The authors state: &quot;''If there were an Australoid “substratum” component to Indians’ ancestry, we would expect some degree of craniometric similarity between Howells’ Southwest Pacific series and Indians. But in fact, the Southwest Pacific and Indian are craniometrically very distinct, falsifying any claim for an Australoid substratum in India.''&quot;<br /> <br /> However, Raghavan and Bulbeck et al., while noting the distinctiveness between South Asian and Andamanese crania, also explain that this is not in conflict with genetic evidence (found by Reich et al. in 2009), which suggests some shared ancestry between Andamanese and South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Raghavan P, Bulbeck D, Pathmanathan G, Rathee SK | title = Indian craniometric variability and affinities | journal = International Journal of Evolutionary Biology | volume = 2013 | pages = 836738 | date = 2013 | pmid = 24455409 | pmc = 3886603 | doi = 10.1155/2013/836738 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Moorjani et al. 2013 state that the ASI, though not closely related to any living group, are &quot;related (distantly) to indigenous Andaman Islanders.&quot; Moorjani et al. also suggest possible gene flow into the Andamanese from a population related to the ASI. The study concluded that “almost all groups speaking Indo-European or Dravidian languages lie along a gradient of varying relatedness to West Eurasians in PCA (referred to as “Indian cline”)”.&lt;ref name=&quot;:1&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Basu et al. 2016 concluded that the Andamanese have a distinct ancestry and are not closely related to other South Asians but are closer to Southeast Asian Negritos, indicating that South Asian peoples do not descend directly from &quot;Negritos&quot; as such.{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1594}}<br /> <br /> A study by Narasimhan et al. in 2018 observed that samples from an &quot;Indus periphery group&quot; (a population from the periphery of the [[Indus Valley civilization]]) are always mixes of Andamanese-related South Asian hunter-gatherer ancestry (called &quot;AASI&quot;) and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot;.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> A genetic study by Yelmen et al. 2019 shows that the native South Asian genetic component (ASI) is distinct from the Andamanese and not closely related, and that the Andamanese are thus an imperfect and imprecise proxy for ASI. According to Yelmen et al, the Andamanese component (represented by the Andamanese Onge) was not detected in the northern Indian [[Gujarati people|Gujarati]], and thus it is suggested that the South Indian tribal [[Paniya]] people (who are believed to be of largely ASI ancestry) would serve as a better proxy than the Andamanese (Onge) for the &quot;native South Asian&quot; component in modern South Asians.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite journal|last=Yelmen|first=Burak|last2=Mondal|first2=Mayukh|last3=Marnetto|first3=Davide|last4=Pathak|first4=Ajai K.|last5=Montinaro|first5=Francesco|last6=Gallego Romero|first6=Irene|last7=Kivisild|first7=Toomas|last8=Metspalu|first8=Mait|last9=Pagani|first9=Luca|date=2019-08-01|title=Ancestry-Specific Analyses Reveal Differential Demographic Histories and Opposite Selective Pressures in Modern South Asian Populations|journal=Molecular Biology and Evolution|language=en|volume=36|issue=8|pages=1628–1642|doi=10.1093/molbev/msz037|pmid=30952160|pmc=6657728|issn=0737-4038}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> Genetic studies by Shinde et al. and Narasimhan et al. (both in 2019) on remains from the Indus Valley civilization of northeast India and nearby Pakistan, found a mixture of two kinds of ancestry: ancestry from native South Asian hunter-gatherers distantly related to the Andamanese (ranging from 2% to 50%) and early Iranian farmer-related ancestry (50% to 98%) in those analyzed by Shinde et al. (with the Iranian farmer related ancestry generally greater), and with the samples analyzed by Narasimhan et al. having 45–82% Iranian farmer-related ancestry and 11–50% AASI (or Andamanese-related hunter-gatherer ancestry).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ====Vedda====<br /> {{see also|Vedda people}}<br /> Groups ancestral to the modern [[Vedda people|Veddas]] were probably the earliest inhabitants of the area. Their arrival is dated tentatively to 60,000–70,000 years ago. They are genetically distinguishable from the other peoples of Sri Lanka and they show a high degree of intra-group diversity. This is consistent with a long history of existing as small subgroups undergoing significant [[genetic drift]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Deraniyagala SU | title = Pre-and protohistoric settlement in Sri Lanka. | journal = XIII UISPP Congress Proceedings | date = September 1996 | volume = 5 | pages = 277–285 | url = http://www.lankalibrary.com/geo/dera1.html }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;Ranaweera_2014&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Ranaweera L, Kaewsutthi S, Win Tun A, Boonyarit H, Poolsuwan S, Lertrit P | title = Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations | journal = Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 59 | issue = 1 | pages = 28–36 | date = January 2014 | pmid = 24196378 | doi = 10.1038/jhg.2013.112 }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ==Holocene==<br /> {{Main|Holocene|Neolithic|Neolithic revolution}}<br /> <br /> After the last [[Ice age|glacial maximum]], human populations started to grow and migrate. With the invention of agriculture, the so-called Neolithic revolution, larger numbers of people could be sustained. The use of metals (copper, bronze, iron) further changed human ways of life, giving an initial advance to early users, and aiding further migrations, and admixture.<br /> <br /> ===Neolithic period===<br /> {{See also|Dravidian peoples|Indus Valley Civilisation|Mehrgarh}}<br /> <br /> According to Gallego Romero et al. (2011), their research on lactose tolerance in India suggests that &quot;the west Eurasian genetic contribution identified by Reich et al. (2009) principally reflects gene flow from Iran and the Middle East.&quot;{{sfn|Gallego Romero|202011|p=9}} Gallego Romero notes that Indians who are lactose-tolerant show a genetic pattern regarding this tolerance which is &quot;characteristic of the common European mutation.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | url = http://sciencelife.uchospitals.edu/2011/09/14/lactose-tolerance-in-the-indian-dairyland/ | first = Rob | last = Mitchum | name-list-format = vanc | title = Lactose Tolerance in the Indian Dairyland | work = ScienceLife | publisher = UChicago Medicine | date = 14 September 2011}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Romero, this suggests that &quot;the most common lactose tolerance mutation made a two-way migration out of the Middle East less than 10,000 years ago. While the mutation spread across Europe, another explorer must have brought the mutation eastward to India – likely traveling along the coast of the Persian Gulf where other pockets of the same mutation have been found.&quot;&lt;ref name=&quot;ScienceLife2011&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> Asko Parpola, who regards the Harappans to have been Dravidian, notes that Mehrgarh (7000&amp;nbsp;BCE to c. 2500&amp;nbsp;BCE), to the west of the [[Indus River]] valley,&lt;ref&gt;{{cite news |url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4882968.stm |title=Stone age man used dentist drill | work = BBC News | date = 6 April 2006 }}&lt;/ref&gt; is a precursor of the Indus Valley Civilisation, whose inhabitants migrated into the Indus Valley and became the Indus Valley Civilisation.{{sfn|Parpola|2015|p=17}} It is one of the earliest sites with evidence of farming and herding in [[South Asia]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | work = UNESCO World Heritage | date = 2004 | url = https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1876/ | title = Archaeological Site of Mehrgarh }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | last = Hirst | first = K. Kris | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2005 | url = http://archaeology.about.com/od/mterms/g/mehrgarh.htm | title = Mehrgarh | work = Guide to Archaeology }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Lukacs and Hemphill, while there is a strong continuity between the neolithic and [[chalcolithic]] (Copper Age) cultures of Mehrgarh, dental evidence shows that the chalcolithic population did not descend from the neolithic population of Mehrgarh,{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} which &quot;suggests moderate levels of gene flow.&quot;{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}} They further noted that &quot;the direct lineal descendents of the Neolithic inhabitants of Mehrgarh are to be found to the south and the east of Mehrgarh, in northwestern India and the western edge of the Deccan plateau,&quot; with neolithic Mehrgarh showing greater affinity with chalcolithic [[Inamgaon]], south of Mehrgarh, than with chalcolithic Mehrgarh.{{sfn|Coningham|Young|2015|p=114}}<br /> <br /> According to David McAlpin, the Dravidian languages were brought to India by immigration into India from [[Elam]].&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin D, Emeneau MB, Jacobsen Jr WH, Kuiper FB, Paper HH, Reiner E, Stopa R, Vallat F, Wescott RW | chapter = Elamite and Dravidian: Further Evidence of Relationship [and Comments and Reply]. | title = Current Anthropology | date = March 1975 | volume = 16 | issue = 1 | pages = 105–15 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite book | vauthors = McAlpin DW | chapter = Linguistic prehistory: the Dravidian situation. | title = Aryan and Non-Aryan | date = 1979 | pages = 175–89 | publisher = Center for South and Southeast Asian Studies, University of Michigan | location = Ann Arbor}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = McAlpin DW | title = Proto-Elamo-Dravidian: The evidence and its implications. | journal = Transactions of the American Philosophical Society | date = January 1981 | volume = 71 | issue = 3 | pages = 1–55 | doi = 10.2307/1006352 | jstor = 1006352 | url = https://semanticscholar.org/paper/897c74bc98e62cec162ddf7f75af4650c27147e1 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;kumar2004&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Genetic Disorders of the Indian Subcontinent | first = Dhavendra | last = Kumar | name-list-format = vanc | publisher=Springer | year=2004 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-1-4020-1215-0 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bpl0LXKj13QC | quote=... The analysis of two Y chromosome variants, Hgr9 and Hgr3 provides interesting data (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). Microsatellite variation of Hgr9 among Iranians, Pakistanis and Indians indicate an expansion of populations to around 9000 YBP in Iran and then to 6,000 YBP in India. This migration originated in what was historically termed Elam in south-west Iran to the Indus valley, and may have been associated with the spread of Dravidian languages from south-west Iran (Quintan-Murci et al., 2001). ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Renfrew and Cavalli-Sforza, proto-Dravidian was brought to India by farmers from the Iranian part of the Fertile Crescent,{{sfn|Cavalli-Sforza|1994|p=221-222}}&lt;ref name=&quot;mukherjee2001&quot; &gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Mukherjee N, Nebel A, Oppenheim A, Majumder PP | title = High-resolution analysis of Y-chromosomal polymorphisms reveals signatures of population movements from Central Asia and West Asia into India | journal = Journal of Genetics | volume = 80 | issue = 3 | pages = 125–35 | date = December 2001 | pmid = 11988631 | doi = 10.1007/bf02717908 | quote = ... More recently, about 15,000-10,000 years before present (ybp), when agriculture developed in the Fertile Crescent region that extends from Israel through northern Syria to western Iran, there was another eastward wave of human migration (Cavalli-Sforza et al., 1994; Renfrew 1987), a part of which also appears to have entered India. This wave has been postulated to have brought the Dravidian languages into India (Renfrew 1987). Subsequently, the Indo-European (Aryan) language family was introduced into India about 4,000 ybp ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}{{refn|group=note|Derenko: &quot;The spread of these new technologies has been associated with the dispersal of Dravidian and Indo-European languages in southern Asia. It is hypothesized that the proto-Elamo-Dravidian language, most likely originated in the Elam province in southwestern Iran, spread eastwards with the movement of farmers to the Indus Valley and the Indian sub-continent.&quot;{{sfn|Derenko|2013}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Derenko refers to:&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1987), ''Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins''&lt;br&gt;* Renfrew (1996), ''Language families and the spread of farming.'' In: Harris DR, editor, ''The origins and spread of Agriculture and Pastoralism in Eurasia'', pp. 70–92&lt;br&gt;* Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi, Piazza (1994), ''The History and Geography of Human Genes''.}} but more recently Heggerty and Renfrew noted that &quot;McAlpin's analysis of the language data, and thus his claims, remain far from orthodoxy&quot;, adding that Fuller finds no relation of Dravidian language with other languages, and thus assumes it to be native to India.&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew&gt;{{cite book |last1=Heggarty |first1=Paul |last2=Renfrew |first2=Collin | name-list-format = vanc |year=2014|chapter=South and Island Southeast Asia; Languages|editor-last1=Renfrew|editor-first1=Colin|editor-last2=Bahn|editor-first2=Paul|title=The Cambridge World Prehistory|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vWbwAwAAQBAJ|publisher=Cambridge University Press}}&lt;/ref&gt; Renfrew and Bahn conclude that several scenarios are compatible with the data, and that &quot;the linguistic jury is still very much out.&quot;&lt;ref name=Heggarty_Renfrew/&gt;{{refn|group=note|The Elamite-hypothesis has drawn attention in the scholarly literature, but has never been fully accpeted:&lt;br&gt;* According to Mikhail Andronov, Dravidian languages were brought to India at the beginning of the third millennium BCE.{{sfn|Andronov|2003|p=299}}&lt;br&gt;* Kivisild et al. (1999) note that &quot;a small fraction of the West Eurasian mtDNA lineages found in Indian populations can be ascribed to a relatively recent admixture.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1331}} at ca. 9,300 ± 3,000 years before present,{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}} which coincides with &quot;the arrival to India of cereals domesticated in the [[Fertile Crescent]]&quot; and &quot;lends credence to the suggested [[Elamo-Dravidian languages|linguistic connection]] between the Elamite and Dravidic populations.&quot;{{sfn|Kivisild|1999|p=1333}}&lt;br&gt;* According to Palanichamy et al. (2015), &quot;The presence of mtDNA haplogroups (HV14 and U1a) and Y-chromosome haplogroup ([[Haplogroup L-M20|L1]]) in Dravidian populations indicates the spread of the Dravidian language into India from west Asia.&quot;{{sfnp|Palanichamy|2015|p=645}}&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; According to Krishnamurti, Proto-Dravidian may have been spoken in the Indus civilization, suggesting a &quot;tentative date of Proto-Dravidian around the early part of the third millennium.&quot;{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501}} Krishnamurti further states that South Dravidian I (including pre-Tamil) and South Dravidian II (including Pre-Telugu) split around the eleventh century BCE, with the other major branches splitting off at around the same time.{{sfn|Krishnamurti|2003|p=501-502}}}}<br /> <br /> {{harvtxt|Narasimhan et al.|2018}} conclude that ANI and ASI were formed in the 2nd millennium BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}, and were preceded by a mixture of “AASI” (ancient ancestral South Asian hunter-gatherers, sharing a common origin with the Andamanese), and early peoples from what is now [[Iran]], who arrived in India ca. 4700–3000 BCE.{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}} Narasimhan et al. observe that samples from the Indus periphery population are always mixes of the same two proximal sources of AASI and Iranian agriculturalist-related ancestry; with &quot;one of the Indus Periphery individuals having ~42% AASI ancestry and the other two individuals having ~14-18% AASI ancestry&quot; (with the remainder of their ancestry being from the Iranian agriculturalist-related population).{{sfn|Narasimhan et al.|2018|p=15}}<br /> <br /> The Iranian farmer-related ancestry in the Indus Valley Civilisation is estimated at 50-98% according to a 2019 study by Shinde et al. (generally a majority) and at 45–82% according to a 2019 study by Narasimhan et al., with the remainder in both studies (2-50% according to Shinde et al, and 11–50% according to Narasimhan et al.) deriving from the &quot;AASI&quot; population (native South Asian hunter-gatherers sharing a common root with the indigenous Andamanese).&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA&quot;/&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;IVCDNA2&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Austroasiatic===<br /> {{See also|Austroasiatic languages|Munda peoples|Khasi people}}<br /> <br /> According to Ness, there are three broad theories on the origins of the Austroasiatic speakers, namely northeastern India, central or southern China, or southeast Asia.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}} Multiple researches indicate that the Austroasiatic populations in India are derived from (mostly male dominated) migrations from southeast Asia during the Holocene.{{sfn|van Driem|2007a}}{{sfn|Chaubey|2010}}&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot; /&gt;{{sfn|Zhang|2015}}{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;!--** START OF NOTE **--&gt;{{refn|group=note|name=&quot;ASI-AAA&quot;|Nevertheless, according to Basu et al. (2016), the AAA were early settlers in India, related to the ASI: &quot;The absence of significant resemblance with any of the neighboring populations is indicative of the ASI and the AAA being early settlers in India, possibly arriving on the “southern exit” wave out of Africa. Differentiation between the ASI and the AAA possibly took place after their arrival in India (ADMIXTURE analysis with K &lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt; 3 shows ASI plus AAA to be a single population in SI Appendix, Fig. S2).{{sfn|Basu|2016|p=1598}}}}&lt;!--** END OF NOTE **--&gt; According to Van Driem (2007), <br /> {{quote|...the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.{{sfn|van Driem|2007a|p=7}}}}<br /> <br /> According to Chaubey et al. (2011), &quot;AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;{{sfn|Chaubey|2010}}{{refn|group=note|See also:&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | work = Dienekes Anthropology Blog | url = http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html | title = Origin of Indian Austroasiatic speakers | date = 27 October 2010 }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | year = 2010 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/sons-of-the-conquerers-the-story-of-india/#.UQfBCVQR-Sp | title = Sons of the conquerors: the story of India? }}&lt;br&gt;* {{cite web | first = Razib | last = Khan | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2013 | url = http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ | title = Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India}} }} According to Zhang et al. (2015), Austroasiatic (male) migrations from southeast Asia into India took place after the lates Glacial maximum, circa 10,000 years ago.{{sfn|Zhang|2015}} According to Arunkumar et al. (2015), Y-chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, which is typical for Austrosiatic speaking peoples, clearly decreases from Laos to east India, with &quot;a serial decrease in expansion time from east to west,&quot; namely &quot;5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India.&quot; This suggests &quot;a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;{{sfn|Arunkumar|2015}}&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first = Miguel | last = Vilar | name-list-format = vanc | date = 2015 | url = http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ | title = DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India | work = National Geographic }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> According to Riccio et al. (2011), the Munda people are likely descended from Austroasiatic migrants from southeast Asia.&lt;ref name=&quot;Riccio2011&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Riccio ME, Nunes JM, Rahal M, Kervaire B, Tiercy JM, Sanchez-Mazas A | title = The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study | journal = Human Biology | volume = 83 | issue = 3 | pages = 405–35 | date = June 2011 | pmid = 21740156 | doi = 10.3378/027.083.0306 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;{{cite web | first1 = Alejandro | last1 = Gutman | first2 = Beatriz | last2 = Avanzati | name-list-format = vanc | work = The Language Gulper | url = http://www.languagesgulper.com/eng/Austroasiatic.html | title = Austroasiatic Languages }}&lt;/ref&gt; According to Ness, the Khasi probably migrated into India in the first millennium BCE.{{sfn|Ness|2014|p=265}}<br /> <br /> According to a genetic research (2015) including linguistic analyses, suggests an [[East Asia|East Asian]] origin for proto-Austroasiatic groups, which first migrated to Southeast Asia and later into India.&lt;ref&gt;{{Cite web|url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283080042|title=Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro- Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent|last=Zhang| name-list-format = vanc |date=2015|website=|url-status=live|archive-url=|archive-date=|access-date=}}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> ===Indo-Aryans===<br /> {{Main|Indo-Aryan peoples|Indo-Aryan migration theory#genetics}}<br /> <br /> [[File:IE expansion.png|400px|thumb|right|Scheme of Indo-European migrations, of which the Indo-Aryan migrations form a part, from c. 4000 to 1000 BCE according to the [[Kurgan hypothesis]].&lt;br /&gt;* The magenta area corresponds to the assumed ''[[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|Urheimat]]'' ([[Samara culture]], [[Sredny Stog culture]]) and the subsequent [[Yamna culture]].&lt;br /&gt;* The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to c. 2500 BCE.&lt;br /&gt;* The orange area to 1000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=30}}]]<br /> <br /> The '''Indo-Aryan migration theory'''{{refn|group=note|The term &quot;invasion&quot; is only being used nowadays by opponents of the Indo-Aryan Migration theory.{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}} The term &quot;invasion&quot; does not reflect the contemporary scholarly understanding of the Indo-Aryan migrations,{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}} and is merely being used in a polemical and distractive way.}} explains the introduction of the [[Indo-Aryan languages]] in the Indian subcontinent by proposing migrations from the [[Sintashta culture]]{{sfn|Anthony|2007|pp=408–411}}{{sfn|Kuz'mina|2007|p=222}} through [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]] and into the northern [[Indian subcontinent]] (modern day [[India]], [[Pakistan]], [[Bangladesh]] and [[Nepal]]). It is based on linguistic similarities between northern Indian and western European languages, and supported by archeological and anthropological research. They form part of a complex genetical puzzle on the origin and spread of the various components of the Indian population.<br /> <br /> The Indo-Aryan migrations started in approximately 1,800 BCE, after the invention of the [[Chariot|war chariot]], and also brought Indo-Aryan languages into the [[Levant]] and possibly [[Inner Asia]]. It was part of the diffusion of [[Indo-European languages]] from the [[Proto-Indo-European Urheimat hypotheses|proto-Indo-European homeland]] at the [[Pontic steppe]], a large area of [[grassland]]s in far [[Eastern Europe]], which started in the 5th to 4th millennia BCE, and the [[Indo-European migrations]] out of the Eurasian steppes, which started approximately in 2,000 BCE.{{sfn|Beckwith|2009|p=33}}{{sfn|Witzel|2005|p=348}}<br /> <br /> The theory posits that these Indo-Aryan speaking people may have been a genetically diverse group of people who were united by shared cultural norms and language, referred to as ''aryā'', &quot;noble.&quot; Diffusion of this culture and language took place by patron-client systems, which allowed for the absorption and acculturalisation of other groups into this culture, and explains the strong influence on other cultures with which it interacted.<br /> <br /> The idea of an Indo-Aryan immigration was developed shortly after the discovery of the [[Indo-European language family]] in the late 18th century, when similarities between western and Indian languages had been noted. Given these similarities, a [[Proto-Indo-European language|single source or origin]] was proposed, which was diffused by migrations from some original homeland. This linguistic argument{{sfn|Bryant|2001}} is complemented with archaeological, literary, and cultural evidence, and research and discussions on it continue.<br /> <br /> The [[Proto-Indo-Iranians]], from which the [[Indo-Aryans]] developed, are identified with the [[Sintashta culture]] (2100–1800 BCE),{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=390 (fig. 15.9), 405–411}} and the [[Andronovo culture]],{{sfn|Anthony|2009|p=49}} which flourished ca. 1800–1400 BCE in the steppes around the [[Aral sea]], present-day Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. The proto-Indo-Iranians were influenced by the [[Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex|Bactria-Margiana Culture]], south of the Andronovo culture, from which they borrowed their distinctive religious beliefs and practices. The Indo-Aryans split off around 1800–1600 BCE from the Iranians,{{sfn|Anthony|2007|p=408}} whereafter the Indo-Aryans migrated into the Levant and north-western India.<br /> <br /> ===Tibeto-Burmese===<br /> {{Main|Tibeto-Burman languages}}<br /> <br /> According to Cordaux et al. (2004), the Tibeto-Burmans possibly came from the Himalayan and north-eastern borders of the subcontinent within the past 4,200 years.&lt;ref name=&quot;cordaux2004&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Cordaux R, Weiss G, Saha N, Stoneking M | title = The northeast Indian passageway: a barrier or corridor for human migrations? | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 21 | issue = 8 | pages = 1525–33 | date = August 2004 | pmid = 15128876 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msh151 | url = http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/8/1525 | access-date = 2008-11-25 | quote = ... Our coalescence analysis suggests that the expansion of Tibeto-Burman speakers to northeast India most likely took place within the past 4,200 years ... }}&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> A wide variety of Tibeto-Burman languages are spoken on the southern slopes of the Himalayas. Sizable groups that have been identified are the [[West Himalayish languages]] of [[Himachal Pradesh]] and western Nepal, the [[Tamangic languages]] of western Nepal, including [[Tamang language|Tamang]] with one million speakers, and the [[Kiranti languages]] of eastern Nepal. The remaining groups are small, with several isolates.<br /> <br /> The [[Newar language]] (Nepal Bhasa) of central Nepal has a million speakers and a literature dating from the 12th century, and nearly a million people speak [[Magaric languages]], but the rest have small speech communities. Other isolates and small groups in Nepal are [[Dura language|Dura]], [[Raji–Raute languages|Raji–Raute]], [[Chepangic languages|Chepangic]] and [[Dhimal languages|Dhimalish]]. [[Lepcha language|Lepcha]] is spoken in an area from eastern Nepal to western Bhutan.{{sfnp|van Driem|2007|p=296}} Most of the languages of Bhutan are Bodish, but it also has three small isolates, [['Ole language|'Ole]] (&quot;Black Mountain Monpa&quot;), [[Lhokpu language|Lhokpu]] and [[Gongduk language|Gongduk]] and a larger community of speakers of [[Tshangla language|Tshangla]].{{sfnp|van Driem|2011a}}<br /> <br /> ===Crossovers in languages and ethnicity===<br /> {{See also|Adivasi}}<br /> One complication in studying various population groups is that ethnic origins and linguistic affiliations in India match only inexactly: while the [[Kurukh people|Oraon]] [[adivasi]]s are classified as an &quot;Austric&quot; group, their language, called [[Kurukh language|Kurukh]], is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Bilingual Education | first1 = Jim | last1 = Cummins | first2 = David | last2 = Corson | name-list-format = vanc | year=1999 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-0792348061 | publisher=Springer | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=x1aw6j7xHpwC | quote=... over one million speakers each: Bhili (Indo-Aryan) 4.5 million; Santali (Austric) 4.2 m; Gondi (Dravidian) 2.0 m; and Kurukh (Dravidian) 1.3 million ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; The Nicobarese are considered to be a Mongoloid group,&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | vauthors = Khongsdier R, Mukherjee N | title = Growth and nutritional status of Khasi boys in Northeast India relating to exogamous marriages and socioeconomic classes | journal = American Journal of Physical Anthropology | volume = 122 | issue = 2 | pages = 162–70 | date = October 2003 | pmid = 12949836 | doi = 10.1002/ajpa.10305 | url = http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | access-date = 2008-11-25 | url-status = dead | quote = ... The Khasis are one of the Indo-Mongoloid tribes in Northeast India. They speak the Monkhmer language, which belongs to the Austro-Asiatic group (Das, 1978) ... | archive-url = https://archive.today/20130105170233/http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/104533560/abstract | archive-date = 2013-01-05 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=Tribal Development in India: The Contemporary Debate | first = Govinda Chandra | last = Rath | name-list-format = vanc | year=2006 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-0761934233 | publisher=SAGE | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=BxDKhOnWwOsC | quote=... The Car Nicobarese are of Mongoloid stock ... The Nicobarese speak different languages of the Nicobarese group, which belongs to an Austro-Asiatic language sub-family ...}}&lt;/ref&gt; and the [[Munda people|Munda]] and [[Santals]] [[Adivasi]] are &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=The Sacred Complex of Munda Tribe | first = Malini | last = Srivastava | name-list-format = vanc | journal=Anthropologist | volume = 9 | issue = 4 | pages = 327–330 | year=2007 | access-date=2008-11-25 | url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T-Anth/Anth-09-0-000-000-2007-Web/Anth-09-4-000-07-Abst-PDF/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M/Anth-09-4-327-07-417-Srivastava-M-Tt.pdf | quote=... Racially, they are proto-australoid and speak Mundari dialect of Austro-Asiatic ...| doi = 10.1080/09720073.2007.11891020 }}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;chaudhuri1993&quot;&gt;{{cite book | title=State Formation Among Tribals: A Quest for Santal Identity | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1993 | access-date=2008-11-25 | isbn=978-8121204224 | publisher=Gyan Publishing House | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=rhMXAAAAIAAJ | quote=... The Santal is a large Proto-Australoid tribe found in West Bengal, northern Orissa, Bihar, Assam as also in Bangladesh ... The solidarity having been broken, the Santals are gradually adopting languages of the areas inhabited, like Oriya in Orissa, Hindi in Bihar and Bengali in West Bengal and Bangladesh ...}}&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;culshaw1949&quot;&gt;{{cite journal | title=Tribal Heritage: A Study of the Santals | vauthors = Chaudhuri AB | year=1949 | access-date=2008-11-25 | publisher=Lutterworth Press | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=PpFCAAAAIAAJ | quote=''... The Santals belong to his second &quot;main race&quot;, the Proto-Australoid, which he considers arrived in India soon after the Negritos ...''}}&lt;/ref&gt; but all four speak Austro-Asiatic languages.&lt;ref name=&quot;khongsdier2003&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;rath2006&quot; /&gt;&lt;ref name=&quot;srivastava2007&quot; /&gt; The [[Bhil]]s and [[Gondi people|Gonds]] [[Adivasi]] are frequently classified as &quot;Austric&quot; groups,&lt;ref name=&quot;shankarkumar2003&quot;&gt;{{cite journal |title=A Correlative Study of HLA, Sickle Cell Gene and G6PD Deficiency with Splenomegaly and Malaria Incidence Among Bhils and Pawra Tribes from Dhadgon, Dhule, Maharastra | vauthors = Shankarkumar U |journal=Studies of Tribes and Tribals |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=91–94 |date=2003 |access-date=2008-11-25 |url=http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Journals/T%20&amp;%20T/T%20&amp;%20T-01-0-000-000-2003-Web/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-174-2003-Abst-PDF/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar/T%20&amp;%20T-01-2-091-094-2003-Shankar.pdf |quote=... The Bhils are one of the largest tribes concentrated mainly in Western Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Eastern Gujarat and Northern Maharastra. Racially they were classified as Gondids, Malids or Proto-Australoid, but their social history is still a mystery (Bhatia and Rao, 1986) ...| doi=10.1080/0972639X.2003.11886488 }}&lt;/ref&gt; yet [[Bhil languages]] are [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]] and the [[Gondi language]] is Dravidian.&lt;ref name=&quot;cummins1999&quot; /&gt;<br /> <br /> == See also ==<br /> {{col div|colwidth=30em}}<br /> * [[Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia]]<br /> * [[Early Indians]]<br /> * [[Early human migrations]]<br /> * [[Andamanese]]<br /> * [[Irulas]]<br /> * [[Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis]]<br /> {{colend}}<br /> <br /> ==Notes==<br /> {{reflist|group=note|2}}<br /> <br /> == References ==<br /> {{reflist|2}}<br /> <br /> ==Sources==<br /> {{refbegin|30em}}<br /> &lt;!-- A --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Andronov |first=Mikhail Sergeevich | name-list-format = vanc |title=A Comparative Grammar of the Dravidian Languages |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vhB60gYvnLgC&amp;pg=PA299 |year=2003 |publisher=Otto Harrassowitz Verlag |isbn=978-3-447-04455-4 |ref=harv }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last=Anthony | first=David W. | name-list-format = vanc | year=2007 | title=The Horse The Wheel And Language. How Bronze-Age Riders From the Eurasian Steppes Shaped The Modern World | publisher=Princeton University Press }}<br /> * {{cite journal |last=Appenzeller |first=Tim | name-list-format = vanc |year=2012 |title=Human migrations: Eastern odyssey. Humans had spread across Asia by 50,000 years ago. Everything else about our original exodus from Africa is up for debate. |journal=Nature |volume=485 |issue=7396 |url=http://www.nature.com/news/human-migrations-eastern-odyssey-1.10560}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Arunkumar G, Wei LH, Kavitha VJ, Syama A, Arun VS, Sathua S, Sahoo R, Balakrishnan R, Riba T, Chakravarthy J, Chaudhury B | collaboration = The Genographic Consortium | year =2015 | title =A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west | journal =Journal of Systematics and Evolution |volume=53 |issue=6 |pages=546–560 | doi =10.1111/jse.12147| url =https://semanticscholar.org/paper/cb2c767a6f58bc2cf853fbf57ac38f1c5388cc32 }}<br /> &lt;!-- B --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Basu A, Sarkar-Roy N, Majumder PP | title = Genomic reconstruction of the history of extant populations of India reveals five distinct ancestral components and a complex structure | journal = Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America | volume = 113 | issue = 6 | pages = 1594–9 | date = February 2016 | pmid = 26811443 | pmc = 4760789 | doi = 10.1073/pnas.1513197113 | ref = {{sfnref|Basu et al.|2016}} | bibcode = 2016PNAS..113.1594B }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Beckwith |first=Christopher I.| name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Christopher I. Beckwith |title=Empires of the Silk Road: A History of Central Eurasia from the Bronze Age to the Present |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=-Ue8BxLEMt4C |date=16 March 2009 |publisher=[[Princeton University Press]] |isbn=978-1-4008-2994-1 |access-date=30 December 2014 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last=Bryant | first=Edwin | name-list-format = vanc | author-link=Edwin Bryant (author) | year=2001 | title=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture: The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate | publisher=Oxford University Press | isbn=978-0-19-513777-4 | title-link=The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture }}.<br /> &lt;!-- C --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Cavalli-Sforza | first1 =Luigi Luca | last2 =Menozzi | first2 =Paolo | last3 =Piazza | first3 =Alberto | name-list-format = vanc | year =1994 | title =The History and Geography of Human Genes | publisher =Princeton University Press}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Chaubey G, Metspalu M, Choi Y, Mägi R, Romero IG, Soares P, van Oven M, Behar DM, Rootsi S, Hudjashov G, Mallick CB, Karmin M, Nelis M, Parik J, Reddy AG, Metspalu E, van Driem G, Xue Y, Tyler-Smith C, Thangaraj K, Singh L, Remm M, Richards MB, Lahr MM, Kayser M, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Population genetic structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: the role of landscape barriers and sex-specific admixture | journal = Molecular Biology and Evolution | volume = 28 | issue = 2 | pages = 1013–24 | date = February 2011 | pmid = 20978040 | pmc = 3355372 | doi = 10.1093/molbev/msq288 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Coningham | first1 =Robin | last2 =Young | first2 =Ruth | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Archaeology of South Asia: From the Indus to Asoka, c.6500 BCE–200 CE | publisher =Cambridge University Press}}<br /> &lt;!-- D --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Bahmanimehr A, Denisova G, Perkova M, Farjadian S, Yepiskoposyan L | title = Complete mitochondrial DNA diversity in Iranians | journal = PLOS ONE | volume = 8 | issue = 11 | pages = e80673 | year = 2013 | pmid = 24244704 | pmc = 3828245 | doi = 10.1371/journal.pone.0080673 | bibcode = 2013PLoSO...880673D }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | chapter = South Asia and the Middle East | title = Encyclopedia of the World's Endangered Languages | editor-last = Moseley | editor-first = Christopher | publisher = Routledge | year = 2007 | isbn = 978-0-7007-1197-0 | pages = 283–347 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =van Driem | first =George L. | name-list-format = vanc | year =2007b | title =Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies | url =http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf}}<br /> * {{cite journal | last = van Driem | first = George L. | name-list-format = vanc | title = Tibeto-Burman subgroups and historical grammar | journal = Himalayan Linguistics Journal | volume = 10 | issue = 1 | year = 2011a | pages = 31–39 | url = http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | url-status = dead | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20120112220623/http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/HimalayanLinguistics/articles/2011/HLJ1001B.html | archive-date = 12 January 2012 | df = dmy-all }}<br /> &lt;!-- K --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Kivisild T, Bamshad MJ, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Metspalu E, Reidla M, Laos S, Parik J, Watkins WS, Dixon ME, Papiha SS, Mastana SS, Mir MR, Ferak V, Villems R | display-authors = 6 | title = Deep common ancestry of indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages | journal = Current Biology | volume = 9 | issue = 22 | pages = 1331–4 | date = November 1999 | pmid = 10574762 | doi = 10.1016/s0960-9822(00)80057-3 | url = http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | url-status = dead | df = dmy-all | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/20051030014804/http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Kivisild_1999.pdf | archive-date = 30 October 2005 }}<br /> * {{cite book |last=Kuz'mina |first=Elena Efimovna | name-list-format = vanc |authorlink=Elena Efimovna Kuzmina |editor=J. P. Mallory |editor-link=J. P. Mallory |title=The Origin of the Indo-Iranians |publisher=Brill |year=2007 |isbn=978-90-04-16054-5}}<br /> &lt;!-- M --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book |last=Manickham |first=Sandra Khor| name-list-format = vanc |editor-last = Hägerdal | editor-first = Hans|title=Responding to the West: Essays on Colonial Domination and Asian Agency|chapter-url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Onr3-thtL2MC&amp;pg=PA69|year=2009|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|isbn=978-90-8964-093-2|pages=69–79|chapter=Africans in Asia: The Discourse of 'Negritos' in Early Nineteenth-century Southeast Asia}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Metspalu M, Romero IG, Yunusbayev B, Chaubey G, Mallick CB, Hudjashov G, Nelis M, Mägi R, Metspalu E, Remm M, Pitchappan R, Singh L, Thangaraj K, Villems R, Kivisild T | display-authors = 6 | title = Shared and unique components of human population structure and genome-wide signals of positive selection in South Asia | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 89 | issue = 6 | pages = 731–44 | date = December 2011 | pmid = 22152676 | pmc = 3234374 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2011.11.010 | ref = {{sfnref|Metspalu et al.|2011}} }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Moorjani P, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Lipson M, Loh PR, Govindaraj P, Berger B, Reich D, Singh L | display-authors = 6 | title = Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India | journal = American Journal of Human Genetics | volume = 93 | issue = 3 | pages = 422–38 | date = September 2013 | pmid = 23932107 | pmc = 3769933 | doi = 10.1016/j.ajhg.2013.07.006 | ref = {{sfnref|Moorjani et al.|2013}} }}<br /> &lt;!-- N --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | last1 =Narasimhan | first1 =Vagheesh M. | last2 =Anthony | first2 =David | last3 =Mallory | first3 =James | last4 =Reich | first4 =David | name-list-format = vanc | year =2018 | title =The Genomic Formation of South and Central Asia | journal =bioRxiv | pages =292581 | url =https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/31/292581 |ref={{sfnref|Narasimhan et al.|2018}}| doi =10.1101/292581 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration}}<br /> &lt;!-- P --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Palanichamy MG, Mitra B, Zhang CL, Debnath M, Li GM, Wang HW, Agrawal S, Chaudhuri TK, Zhang YP | display-authors = 6 | title = West Eurasian mtDNA lineages in India: an insight into the spread of the Dravidian language and the origins of the caste system | journal = Human Genetics | volume = 134 | issue = 6 | pages = 637–47 | date = June 2015 | pmid = 25832481 | doi = 10.1007/s00439-015-1547-4 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Posth C, Renaud G, Mittnik A, Drucker DG, Rougier H, Cupillard C, Valentin F, Thevenet C, Furtwängler A, Wißing C, Francken M, Malina M, Bolus M, Lari M, Gigli E, Capecchi G, Crevecoeur I, Beauval C, Flas D, Germonpré M, van der Plicht J, Cottiaux R, Gély B, Ronchitelli A, Wehrberger K, Grigorescu D, Svoboda J, Semal P, Caramelli D, Bocherens H, Harvati K, Conard NJ, Haak W, Powell A, Krause J | display-authors = 6 | title = Pleistocene Mitochondrial Genomes Suggest a Single Major Dispersal of Non-Africans and a Late Glacial Population Turnover in Europe | journal = Current Biology | volume = 26 | issue = 6 | pages = 827–33 | date = March 2016 | pmid = 26853362 | doi = 10.1016/j.cub.2016.01.037 }}<br /> * {{cite book | last = Ruhlen | first = Merritt | authorlink = Merritt Ruhlen | name-list-format = vanc | title = A Guide to the World's Languages: Classification | publisher = Stanford University Press | year = 1991 | isbn = 978-0-8047-1894-3 }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2010 | title =A Dravidian solution to the Indus script problem | publisher =World Classical Tamil Conference | url = http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/archive/00133/_A_Dravidian_Soluti_133901a.pdf }}<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Parpola | first =Asko | name-list-format = vanc | year =2015 | title =The Roots of Hinduism. The Early Arians and the Indus Civilization | publisher =Oxford University Press}}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | ref = {{sfnref|Reich et al.|2009}} | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Reich D, Thangaraj K, Patterson N, Price AL, Singh L | title = Reconstructing Indian population history | journal = Nature | volume = 461 | issue = 7263 | pages = 489–94 | date = September 2009 | pmid = 19779445 | pmc = 2842210 | doi = 10.1038/nature08365 | url = https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf | bibcode = 2009Natur.461..489R }}<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Vishwanathan H, Deepa E, Cordaux R, Stoneking M, Usha Rani MV, Majumder PP | title = Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers | journal = Annals of Human Genetics | volume = 68 | issue = Pt 2 | pages = 128–38 | date = March 2004 | pmid = 15008792 | doi = 10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x | url = http://repository.ias.ac.in/21333/1/328.pdf }}<br /> &lt;!-- W --&gt;<br /> * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | year =2002 | publisher =Princeton University Press | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * * {{cite book | last =Wells | first =Spencer | name-list-format = vanc | year =2012 | title =The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey | publisher =Random House Publishing Group | isbn =978-0-691-11532-0 | url =https://archive.org/details/journeyofmangene00well }} <br /> * {{cite book | last=Witzel | first=Michael | name-list-format = vanc | year=2005 | chapter=Indocentrism | editor-last1=Bryant | editor-first1=Edwin | editor-last2=Patton | editor-first2=Laurie L. | title=TheE Indo-Aryan Controversy. Evidence and inference in Indian history | publisher=Routledge | chapter-url=https://archive.org/details/EdwinBryantLauriePattonIndoAryanControversyEvidenceAndInferenceInIndianHistoryRoutledge2005}}<br /> &lt;!-- Z --&gt;<br /> * {{cite journal | vauthors = Zhang X, Liao S, Qi X, Liu J, Kampuansai J, Zhang H, Yang Z, Serey B, Sovannary T, Bunnath L, Seang Aun H, Samnom H, Kangwanpong D, Shi H, Su B | display-authors = 6 | title = Y-chromosome diversity suggests southern origin and Paleolithic backwave migration of Austro-Asiatic speakers from eastern Asia to the Indian subcontinent | journal = Scientific Reports | volume = 5 | pages = 15486 | date = October 2015 | pmid = 26482917 | pmc = 4611482 | doi = 10.1038/srep15486 | bibcode = 2015NatSR...515486Z }}<br /> {{refend}}<br /> <br /> == Further reading ==<br /> * {{cite journal | last =Ness | first =Immanuel | name-list-format = vanc | year =2014 | title =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration | publisher =The Global Prehistory of Human Migration}}<br /> <br /> == External links ==<br /> ;Overview<br /> * Akhilesh Pillalamarri, ''Where Did Indians Come from'', [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/unraveled-where-indians-come-from-part-1/ part1], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-indians-come-from-part-2-dravidians-and-aryans/ part 2], [https://thediplomat.com/2019/01/where-did-indians-come-from-part-3-what-is-caste/ part 3]<br /> ;Negritos<br /> * [https://thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com/tag/negrito/ thepeoplingofindia.wordpress.com, ''Negrito'']<br /> <br /> [[Category:Indigenous peoples of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:History of South Asia]]<br /> [[Category:Peopling of the world|India]]</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=935764914 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-01-14T16:05:31Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Shinde et al. 2019 */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=start|importance=low|assess-date=February 2015}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. 2019==<br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below:<br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;If one of these population fits, it does not mean it is the true source; instead, it means that it and the true source population are consistent with descending without mixture from the same homogeneous ancestral population that poten-tially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=935764093 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-01-14T15:59:29Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Ancient DNA studies */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=start|importance=low|assess-date=February 2015}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Shinde et al. 2019==<br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below:<br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;If one of these population fits, it does not mean itis the true source; instead, it means that it and the true sourcepopulation are consistent with descending without mixturefrom the same homogeneous ancestral population that poten-tially lived thousands of years before. The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=935763026 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-01-14T15:50:44Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Ancient DNA studies */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=start|importance=low|assess-date=February 2015}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> <br /> {{ping|User:Ilber8000}} Hello. I can't seem to the find place in Shinde et al. 2019 containing the passage quoted below: <br /> <br /> &quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;<br /> <br /> Do you know on what page of the study this appears? I cannot seem to find it, but only the images showing a common ancestry/descent between the South Asian hunter-gatherer population (AASI) and the Andamanese. Here is a link to the full study: https://www.academia.edu/40264601/Ancient_Harappan_Genome_lacks_ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers_--_Vasant_Shinde_et_al_Cell_5_Sept._2019_Full_text_<br /> and another link (with better resolution): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> Thank you, [[User:Skllagyook|Skllagyook]] ([[User talk:Skllagyook|talk]]) 02:29, 14 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{ping|Skllagyook}} It's right on page 3 in that link you posted. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335641385_An_Ancient_Harappan_Genome_Lacks_Ancestry_from_Steppe_Pastoralists_or_Iranian_Farmers<br /> <br /> ''&quot;The only fitting two-way models were mixtures of a group related to herders from the western Zagros mountains of Iran and also to either Andamanese hunter-gatherers (73% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.103 for overall model fit) or East Siberian hunter-gatherers (63% ± 6% Iranian-related ancestry; p = 0.24) (the fact that the latter two populations both fit reflects that they have the same phylogenetic relationship to the non-West Eurasian-related component of I6113 likely due to shared ancestry deeply in time)&quot;'' [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Peopling_of_India&diff=935312545 Talk:Peopling of India 2020-01-11T22:01:29Z <p>Ilber8000: /* Ancient DNA studies */</p> <hr /> <div>{{WikiProject India|class=start|importance=low|assess-date=February 2015}}<br /> <br /> ==Start==<br /> I'm starting this article and, given strong opinions and varying evidence on this topic, it is likely that it will go through a rough and tumble phase. That is fine. And the whole area of how the subcontinent was colonized by humans is too important to simply ignore. However, everything should be referenced. As a ground rule, it would be good to agree to be ruthless about pruning out anything that is not accompanied by reliable and inline references. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 02:21, 9 April 2010 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Dravidian-speakers - Dravidian-speakers are Australoid, not Caucasoid ==<br /> '''Hunnjazal wrote:''' I guess the rough and tumble phase has begun 1.5 years after I predicted it :)<br /> <br /> Bodhidharma, much of the recent genetic analysis indicates a different variant of the story. Dravidian speakers were very much caucasoid. Infact, based on the analysis of Brahui speakers, it appears that they are *more* Caucasian than neighboring Indo-European speakers (both Baloch and Persian). See [http://www.harappadna.org/2011/07/brahui-are-something-old-not-new/ Brahui are something old, not new]:<br /> :''&quot;The Brahui look to be somewhat less cosmopolitan than the Balochi, and less South Asian. Balochi is a Northwest Iranian language, like Kurdish. This points to an intrusive history of this group in the current region which it dominates. If the Brahui and Baloch are both intrusive, I suspect that the latter are more recent than the former.&quot;'' <br /> Please digest this: it means that Brahuis who are '''less''' South Asian speak Dravidian and Balochs who are more South Asian speak IE. On top of that Dravidian higher-castes show marked differences from North Indians and North Indian high castes in having higher percentages (almost double) of Southwest Asian [[Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)|haplotypes like J2]]:<br /> :''&quot;The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).&quot;''<br /> It looks like Dravidian arrived in India with Iranian caucasoid invaders who spread everywhere. Then there was a second Caucasoid wave of IE speakers (Aryans) who were genetically more South Asian proximate (these display higher East European type haplotypes). They may have caused language switches in Iran (from [[Elamite language]]) and Northern India from Dravidian, which still leaves a tonne of Dravidian words in IE languages of North India. It all points to a Iranian caucasoid origin for Dravidian. All non-tribal Indians (except in the NE) are basically caucasoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Look at [http://www.harappadna.com/2011/09/admixture-ref3-k11-hrp0161-hrp0170/ Histogram of genetic components of various Indian individuals]. In this C1 is primarily Neolithic caucasoid native to South Asia. Your linking of Australoid ethnicity and Dravidian speakers is *totally* wrong. What do you base this on? I have not seen any recent research or books that would substantiate this. Produce reliable references please or desist. I am totally comfortable including alternative hypothesis as long as they are referenced. Thanks! --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 11:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhisharma7:''' Hunnjazal,<br /> <br /> I've already provided a number of references demonstrating that Dravidians are primarily of Australoid racial origin, but you never bothered reading them. <br /> * This is from my first source, by the The Indian Genome Variation database 2005: <br /> ::''&quot;All the four major morphological types—Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid and Negrito are present in the Indian population (Malhotra 1978). The ‘‘Caucasoid’’ and ‘‘Mongoloid’’ populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The ‘‘Australoids’’ are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the ‘‘Negritos’’ are restricted only to the Andaman Islands (CavalliSforza et al. 1994) (Fig. 1).&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.imtech.res.in/raghava/reprints/IGVdb.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> :You should study Fig.1 and Fig.2 carefully, because the Australoid region overlaps with the region where Dravidian languages are spoken. <br /> * Here's another study from 2003 which basically says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;Indian populations include four ethnic groups: Austroloid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. Caucasoid and Mongoloid populations are mainly concentrated in the north and northeastern parts of the country. The Australoid groups are mostly confined to the central, western and southern India, while the Negritos are restricted only to the Andaman Islands ... Majority of Indians speak Indo-European or Dravidian languages, spread over the northern and southern parts of the subcontinent, respectively.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug252003/464.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> * Here's another study from 2004, which says the same thing: <br /> ::''&quot;The diverse populations in India can be broadly classified phenotypically into four ethnic classes: Australoid, Negrito, Mongoloid, and Caucasoid. The last ethnic group is spread the over entire country, with specific concentration in the northern regions. Australoid group is mostly confined to western and southern states. The Negrito element is restricted to the Andaman Islands...&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ias.ac.in/jgenet/Vol83No1/49.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> ::Look at Appendix 1 of the same study and notice how all the Dravidian/Austro-Asiatic populations are classified as Australoid. <br /> * This study from 2003 speaks of Tamil Nadu being predominantly Australoid and then uses three endogamous Australoid populations in order to demonstrate the indigenous origin of Dravidian-speakers as a whole: <br /> ::''&quot;Population groups inhabiting Tamil Nadu have the distinction of belonging to the Dravidian linguistic family and are predominantly of Australoid ethnicity ... In the study reported here, we attempt to verify the indigenous origin of the Dravidian linguistic group represented by the three endogamous Australoid groups from Tamil Nadu as a separate genetic pool and analyze the extent of diversity and gene flow among them using autosomal microsatellite markers ... The NJ dendrogram also suggests a strong association between the migrant Indian population in United Arab Emirates and Dravidian populations of India [including the 3 Tamil populations in Fig.3], which can be expected since a considerable number of the southern Indian Dravidians reside in the Emirates.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> <br /> I could go on and on, but this should be enough for now. <br /> <br /> Now, I'm not interested in any forum wars or anything like that and I am prepared to compromise, if you are. I have provided more than enough evidence that Dravidians are non-Caucasoid, but am willing to conclude that Dravidians are a mixture of Caucasoid and Australoid elements, which is the middle way.<br /> <br /> &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 16:06, 28 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Bodhidharma, you are missing the point entirely and confusing language for ethnicity (and I have differences with the other stuff you say - but leave that aside for now). This article is about the &quot;Peopling of India&quot; and not about &quot;the People of India.&quot; The question is who the original Dravidian speakers were and here the evidence is overwhelming. They were Caucasoid and possibly *more* Caucasoid than IE speakers. The article explicitly says the Australoids came in prior to the Caucasoids.&lt;br&gt;<br /> What looks like happened was: Negritos, AA-speaking Australoids, then a period of 10-20k years, then Dravidian caucasoids. Dravidian languages spread from these people to the entire subcontinent, which is why it is found all the way from Iran to Bangladesh down to the southernmost tip of India. Then came IE which supplanted Dravidian, but still left lots of Dravidian roots, place names, etc in the Northern subcontinent.&lt;br&gt;<br /> You have not provided a single piece of evidence that says Dravidians = Australoids. What you are doing is WP-SYNTH. Reverting and will continue to do so. Please arrive at consensus here first. I have no agenda at all on any of this but you have to go with published references without synthesizing. Provide links to your sources. Even North Indians and Pashtoons (who are part of the subcontinental ANI-ASI cline) demonstrate some presence of ASI of 20-30% and more, i.e. even they are a mix of Australoid/Negrito and Caucasoid, so I don't know what you're getting at there. This is true of modern-day IA, subcontinental Iranian and Dravidian speakers alike. Only the percentages vary. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:12, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Hunnjazal:''' BTW, in your source [http://wysinger.homestead.com/dravidian.pdf Microsatellite Diversity among Three Endogamous Tamil Populations Suggests Their Origin from a Separate Dravidian Genetic Pool], look more carefully at the dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are closer to Kallars and Pallars than Vanniyars are. North Indian Kayasths are closer to Vanniyars than they are to Bihari Bhumihars. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 16:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Hunnjazal, you haven't read any of my sources. All of them clearly indicate that southern India is mostly occupied by Australoids, which is where the majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. And yes, many researchers have stated that Dravidian = Australoid, such as in this paper by Chakraborty et al.: <br /> :''&quot;Since in the current ethnohistoric literature the terms Caucasoid and Proto-Australoid are commonly used to indicate Indo-Aryan and Dravidian ancestry, in this paper we will use the terminology of Caucasoid for Indo-Aryan and Proto-Australoid for Dravidian interchangeably.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330710305/abstract&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> This study pretty much says that Dravidians = Australoids: <br /> :''&quot;They belonged to the following ethnic groups: Rajput, Gorkha and South Indian. They represent different geographical, ecological and cultural settings of India. The Rajputs are from northwest India (Rajasthan), the Gorkhas are basically sub-mountainous people living in northern parts of India and South Indians are people from southern parts (Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala, Tamil Nadu) of the country. Place of origin and age (i.e., date of birth) were self-reported. Based on morpholinguistic classification of the Indian population (4): Caucasoid=Indo-European (Rajputs), Mongoloid=Tibeto-Burman (Gorkhas) and Australoid=Dravidian (South Indians) subtypes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t10/i2/iaft10i2p153.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study which equates Australoids with Dravidians: <br /> :''&quot;The Indian population includes several major ethnic groups, such as Indocaucasoid, Mongoloid, and Australoid, and the linguistic family includes Austroasiatic, Tibetoburman, Indoeuropean, and Dravidian. The Australoid/Dravidian population is confined to southern India; their language family is further subdivided into Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, and Tamil.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1079210410005676&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> Here's another study: <br /> :''&quot;The tribes in Orissa, as in the whole of India, are by no means homogeneous in their history, language, culture or social organization. It may be mentioned here that the major tribes of Orissa belong to three linguistic groups, namely, Indo-Aryan or Indo-Europeans (Non-Australoid), Austro-Asiatic (Mundari) speakers (Proto-Australoid) and Dravidian (Gondi or Kuvi) speakers (Australoid). Mundari speakers (Austro-Asiatic) belong to Proto-Australoid racial group, which include Bhumiz, Gadaba, Juang, Kharia, Koda, Kolha, Mahali, Mirdha, Munda, Santal and Saora tribes. The Northern Mundari comprise of tribes such as the Bhumiz, Juang, Kharia, Kolha or Ho, Korku, Munda and Santal; and from the southern region, the Southern Mundari covering the tribes, namely, Bonda, Didayi, Gadaba, Parenga and Saora. Tribes like Bathudi, Bhatra, Binjhal, Bhuyan, Lodha and Saunti are Indo-Aryan or Indo-European speakers and belong to non-Australoid racial stock. The Dravidian (Kuvi or Gondi) speaker group belongs to Australoid racial stock and includes Gond, Kondh, Kissan oraon, Paraja and Pentia Halva tribes.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.ijhg.com/article.asp?issn=0971-6866;year=2006;volume=12;issue=2;spage=86;epage=92;aulast=Balgir&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> <br /> Also, you don't know how to read a dendrogram. Karnataka Brahmins are from southern India and have significant Australoid admixture, which is why they cluster with the Australoid Tamils. In fact, if southern Indians are so Caucasoid, then how come none of them cluster with Arabs or Pakistanis, like Northern Indians? Instead, they cluster with Tamils, an Australoid group. Also, Kayasths are in cluster II with the north Indians, whereas Vanniyars are in cluster I with the other Dravidian-speaking Australoids. You're not looking closely enough at the evidence because the conclusion is inescapable: most Dravidian-speakers are Australoid. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 19:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' I could contest this point by point but it seems pointless. Are you even reading what I wrote. You keep talking about present day. The question is who the '''original''' Dravidians were. I could similarly point to studies of Brahuis and say, Dravidian speakers are more Caucasoid than IE speakers. The question here is who peopled India first. Australoids came before Caucasoids. Are you contesting this? It seems like you're engaged in some other argument that has little to do with this article. Maybe we can compromise in the following way: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; Okay with this? Bottomline is that Dravidian languages didn't originate with Australoids. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 01:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I agree that Australoids came before Caucasoids, but here's my problem: the Caucasoids who invaded the subcontinent, the ANI, came about 3500 ybp. These were the Indo-Europeans. The Dravidians invaded about 8,000 ybp. These must have been ASI, because ANI-ASI admixture takes place about 3,500, which roughly coincides with the Caucasoid Indo-European migration into India. Of course, you know who possesses the purest ASI ancestry, it's the tribals I believe. I'm suspecting you might be arguing for some sort of Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, in which the Dravidian languages were transmitted to India by Caucasoid Elamite agriculturalists and were subsequently adopted by Australoids or something like it. If this is the case, then I have no problem with what you are trying to say. Just make it clear in the article. I'm also OK with the final statement: &quot;Many modern South Indian speakers of Dravidian languages appear to genetically be mixtures of Australoid and Caucasoid.&quot; I hope we can at least agree on this as this all sounds quite reasonable and finish this dispute once and for all.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 01:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' BTW, I believe the Brahui are an outlier. Anyway, that's all. I think we can come to an amicable agreement on this whole subject.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 02:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Also, this might be of interest concerning the identity of the first Dravidian speakers in ancient India. This is from Reich's 2009 study: <br /> :''&quot;ANI ancestry is significantly higher in Indo-European than Dravidian speakers (P 5 0.013 by a one-sided test), suggesting that the ancestral ASI may have spoken a Dravidian language before mixing with the ANI.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.genome.duke.edu/seminars/journal-club/documents/nature08365.pdf&lt;/ref&gt;'' <br /> And of course, the only ASI group in India without ANI ancestry are the Andamanese Onge tribe, as Reich says in the study. So what does this tell us? Well, it immediately suggests that at the time of Indo-Aryan conquest, the Dravidian speakers the invaders encountered were of Australoid race. And even from a linguistic point of view, if one looks at the Rig Veda, the Aryans refer to the aboriginals as black-skinned and flat-nosed, which is exactly what one would expect if most of India was inhabited by Dravidian Australoids. This is hardly the kind of description one would expect if they were Caucasoid. Although, I suppose one could argue that Caucasian Elamites carried the Dravidian language with them to India just before the Indo-Aryan migration, where it was rapidly adopted by the native Australoids as their own tongue. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bodhidharma7|contribs]]) 22:11, 30 September 2011 (UTC)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt; &lt;!--Autosigned by SineBot--&gt;<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Okay, we're agreed on what to put in. To continue our other interesting discussion (otherwise we'll just end-up clashing in some other article on this), I think the emerging genetic-linguistic consensus that is emerging runs along the following lines now:<br /> * Negritos come into India ~60k ybp: they contain the M mtDNA haplogroup - 60%+ of all Indians carry it and it is found in Kashmiris, Pathans, etc - they carry ASI<br /> * Australoids come into India speaking AA 20-40k ybp (by this time the sea has risen and the land bridge to the Andamans is gone, so Negritos survive there largely intact)<br /> * Caucasoid Dravidian speakers enter from Iran ~8.5k ybp; They spread everywhere as an elite group causing mass switches to Dravidian; Northern Indians speak Dravidian <br /> * Caucasoid Indo-European speakers enter from Central Asia ~4k ybp; They spread in the Northern areas and cause North Indians to switch to IA, but a Dravidian substrate survives (In Iran also they cause switches from Elamite to IE/Iranian)<br /> <br /> The thing is that ANI and ASI are not singular populations. ANI = Neolithic caucasoids + later incursions. ASI = Negrito + some element of Australoid. Another issue is that there were probably many migrating strands. If you look at the HarappaDNA site, you will see that even Punjabis, Kashmiris, etc carry some shared [[Onge]] DNA in them. All people on the Indian cline are ANI-ASI mixes, i.e. North Indians are Australoid-Caucasoid mixes too. In terms of peopling though, the Brahui are not the outliers - they appear to be part of the original Dravidian speaking group. This is also necessary to explain why South Indian Brahmins are proportionally so much more West Asian in Y-DNA than North Indian Brahmins.&lt;br&gt;<br /> Bottomline here is that Dravidian appears to have originated with West Asian Caucasoids and AA with Australoids. It is possible that it may have been associated with Australoids also, but then how did it get all the way to Iran and why do so many Australoids speak AA?&lt;br&gt;<br /> Lots of questions remain and this view may get revised also, since lots of Mongoloid people speak AA also and if Australoids were the first widespread group then how come AA languages don't have pockets everywhere like Dravidian does (it is found in Nepal as well). AFAIK only Australoids and Mongoloid tribes speak AA so it has to have come from one of them. What would you consider Santalis? They speak AA and appear to be Australoid.&lt;br&gt;<br /> The original founding block of ASI is likely Negrito and not Australoid: ''[http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/09/indians-as-hybrids-a-k-a-aryan-invasion-in-the-house/ The Onge branch seems to descend from an ancestral population which also gave rise what is termed in the paper “Ancestral South Indian” (ASI)] (Indians as hybrids: a.k.a Aryan invasion in the house!)''. ON RV references to snubnosed and darkskinned, it is now also suggested that this may be an encounter outside the boundaries of modern India between two Caucasoid groups. Remember that Iranians look darkskinned to Scandinavians. We just don't know what we don't know. --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 23:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Bodhidharma7:''' Yes, I would agree with your historical chronology of human migrations into India. However, osteo-archaeological evidence reveals that the ancient Harappans, a Dravidian-speaking culture, were comprised of both Mediterranean and Australoid elements, with the Australoid elements predominating. So it appears that there was some racial synthesis even before the Indo-Aryan invasion and probably to such an extent that the Mediterranean element was largely submerged by the time of the actual Indo-Aryan conquest of the subcontinent. The Caucasoid Elamites, the bringers of the urban civilization to the Indus valley, probably invaded the subcontinent through Balochistan and their influence upon the indigenous Australoid was so far-reaching as to result in a massive cultural and linguistic replacement which probably explains why the majority of modern Dravidian-speakers are of Australoid race.&lt;br&gt; <br /> But does it make sense to associate the origins of the modern Dravidian languages entirely with these Caucasoid migrants? To what extent was this proto-Dravidian language influenced by Elamite agriculturalists and to what extent was it influenced by indigenous Australoid inhabitants, phonetically, morphologically, grammatically etc.? It is entirely possible that the modern Dravidian languages may be of dual Elamo-Dravidian and Australoid origin, so to see it as being entirely Elamite in origin might be a mistake. You understand what I mean? There is still considerable uncertainty as to what the underlying syntactical structure of proto-Dravidian actually was; however, what does seem certain, from osteological evidence gathered from a variety of Chalcolithic sites around the Indus valley and recent genetic/archaeogenetic research, is that the people conquered by the Aryans were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, the dasas of the Rig Veda (which would also explain why they were referred to as dark-skinned and flat-nosed). The Indo-Iranians and Indo-Aryans were of the same racial stock and language, so it seems highly unlikely that the term &quot;dasa&quot; could have referred to another Caucasoid group. <br /> <br /> As for the Brahui, they are most definitely an outlier, as it is the only Dravidian language which lies outside the region where the overwhelming majority of Dravidian languages are spoken. From what I've seen, there are two competing hypotheses as to their origins: <br /> # that they may be Indo-European migrants from central India who settled in Balochistan about 1000 AD or <br /> # the possible remnant of an ancient population of Elamo-Dravidian agriculturalists who subdued the indigenous Australoids of the subcontinent. <br /> Again, you are totally mistaken about the genetic ancestry of the castes. As north Indians are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indians, so north Indian Brahmins are more Caucasoid paternally than south Indian Brahmins. This makes total sense if the Mediterranean Elamite stock was so completely absorbed by the aboriginals that by the time of the Indo-Aryan migrations, the native peoples were Dravidian-speaking Australoids, who subsequently fled to southern India to escape Aryan dominance. Anyway, there is still considerable uncertainty as to the origin of the Dravidian languages, as the linguist Krishnamurti argues (2003): <br /> :''&quot;For the time being, it is best to consider Dravidians to be natives of the Indian subcontinent who were scattered throughout the country by the time the Aryans entered India around 1500 BCE.&quot;&lt;ref&gt;http://books.google.ca/books?id=54fV7Lwu3fMC&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;dq=the+dravidian+languages&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=z2CHTrC9L-nV0QHA6bHLDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=1&amp;ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false&lt;/ref&gt;''<br /> But just for the record, I would probably subscribe to the proto-Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis, with some reservations.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 18:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the Austro-Asiatic languages, notably Munda, it is possible that Dravidian may have an Austro-Asiatic or a Para-Munda substrate, as it has been argued that certain words and grammatical features of Dravidian seem to be of proto-Munda origin. Dravidian may actually be a synthesis of Elamite and an ancient proto-Munda dialect, with whatever Austro-Asiatic elements present in the language largely being replaced by Elamite. Of course, this is just speculation, but it is a definite possibility and does contribute to the Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 19:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Further reply by Bodhidharma7:''' As for the literal interpretation of skin color as an ethnic marker as mentioned in the Rig Veda, this seems supported by other Sanskrit literature. The Sanskrit grammarian Patanjali speaks of the ideal Brahmin as being white with blond or red hair; in the Bhagavata Purana, it is said of Bahuka, the father of the Nisada class, being the children of Brahmin males and Sudra females, that &quot;his complexion was as black as a crow's. All the limbs of his body were very short, his arms and legs were short, and his jaws were large. His nose was flat, his eyes were reddish, and his hair copper-colored.&quot; The Aryans had three classes among themselves and only added the Sudra after their conquest of the Indus Valley. The description of the dasa, the sudra and the nisada seem to overlap. It seems to refer to the Dravidian-speaking Australoid, although the references to Arya varna and the black varna in the Rig Veda may be subject to interpretation.<br /> <br /> Anyway, when you do get back, I'd be interested in seeing a preliminary revision of the article.<br /> <br /> [[User:Bodhidharma7|Bodhidharma7]] ([[User talk:Bodhidharma7|talk]]) 17:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> '''Reply by Hunnjaza:''' Sorry about the delay in responding Bodhidharma. I definitely want to pursue this discussion further but have to travel for some time. However, I don't want to hold this up. Please go ahead and make the agreed upon changes. I will trust your judgment and goodwill and not contest them. Will post on your talk page to round up our discussion once I am back. Best --[[User:Hunnjazal|Hunnjazal]] ([[User talk:Hunnjazal|talk]]) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> '''Comment by JJ:''' interesting discussion. It's pretty obvious that the Dravidians were the ANI. If they were astraulian/negrito, then they were not the ANI. In that case, a nmajor population hided away from the Indo-Europeans for a thousand years (no ANI-loans in the Rig Veda), yet were able to mix with the ASI in a major way. Sounds pretty unlikely, right? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 14:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago' ==<br /> <br /> {{yo|Kautilya3}} I've checked Metspalu 2011 again.This is what they say, regarding the 12,500 years (emphasis mine):<br /> * &quot;PC4 (or k5), distributed across the Indus Valley, Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ''might'' represent the genetic vestige of the ANI (Figure S2). However, within India the geographic cline (the distance from Baluchistan) of the Indus/Caucasus signal (PC4 or k5) is very weak, which is unexpected under the ASI-ANI model, according to which the ANI contribution should decrease as one moves to the south of the subcontinent.&quot; (p.739)<br /> * &quot;We found no regional diversity differences associated with k5 at K ¼ 8. Thus, regardless of where this component was from (the Caucasus, Near East, Indus Valley, or Central Asia), its spread to other regions must have occurred well before our detection limits at 12,500 years. Accordingly, the introduction of k5 to South Asia cannot be explained by recent gene flow, such as the hypothetical Indo-Aryan migration.&quot; (p.740)<br /> So, this is not about ANI, but about a hypothesized, but weak, connection between k5 and ANI. I'll correct this throughout. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:04, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :I have removed the sentence; it's too thin. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:48, 13 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == All but the Andaman people in India are the result of recent migrations ==<br /> <br /> See [http://www.unz.com/gnxp/agriculture-came-with-men-to-the-indian-subcontinent/ Razib Khan (2015), ''Agriculture Came with Men to the Indian Subcontinent'']. Interesting. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Munda ==<br /> <br /> Riccio et al. (2011), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740156 ''The Austroasiatic Munda population from India and Its enigmatic origin: a HLA diversity study'']:<br /> :''&quot;their peculiar genetic profile is better explained by a decrease in genetic diversity through genetic drift from an ancestral population having a genetic profile similar to present-day Austroasiatic populations from Southeast Asia (thus suggesting a possible southeastern origin), followed by intensive gene flow with neighboring Indian populations. This conclusion is in agreement with archaeological and linguistic information. The history of the Austroasiatic family represents a fascinating example where complex interactions among culturally distinct human populations occurred in the past.&quot;''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:08, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Sources on &quot;Negrito&quot; ==<br /> <br /> Being uncomfortable with this term &quot;Negrito,&quot; I've started looking for sources.<br /> * Vishwanathan et al. (2004), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2003.00083.x/full ''Genetic structure and affinities among tribal populations of southern India: a study of 24 autosomal DNA markers''], Annals of human genetics<br /> :* ''&quot;The tribal groups constitute about 8% of the total Indian population and they “may represent relic populations of unknown origin but potentially of great genetic interest” (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has been argued that Africa may have made some direct genetic contribution to India, since some tribal populations in southern India possess phenotypic similarities with Africans, the so-called “Negrito” physical characteristics (Maloney, 1974; Saha et al. 1974; Roychoudhury, 1982; Chandler, 1988; Majumder, 1998).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;It has also been suggested that at one time a “Negrito element” was widespread throughout India and was eventually forced into a more restricted location in south India (Majumder &amp; Mukherjee, 1993).&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> :* ''&quot;In conclusion, the present study suggests that the tribal groups of southern India share a common ancestry, regardless of phenotypic characteristics, and are more closely related to other Indian groups than to African groups.&quot; (Vishwanathan et al. (2004)''<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 16:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: We need to add some information regrading language-shift (to Dravidian/Indo-Aryan) of Austroasiatics during neolithc and post-neolothic period. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 20:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Totally agree, but also tricky, since it may be close to [[WP:OR]]. Not so much for language-shift to Indo-Aryan languages; but language-shift to Dravidian may be more complicated. Though, I do remember that I once read about a tribe that became 'Dravidianised.' And part of Sri Lanka, of course, was also 'Dravidianised' as late as the 11th (or was it the 10th?) century CE. 21:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]]<br /> {{od}}<br /> :: That tribe you are talking about is [[Veddas]], they are an isolated linguistic group (not related to Dravidian or Indo-Aryan). They seem to be different from other groups, due to low M mtdna (17%) compared to Indian Tamils in Lanka who have (70%) M mtdna according this study. <br /> <br /> Study : [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations]<br /> <br /> ''&quot;From the phylogenetic, principal coordinate and analysis of molecular variance results, the Vedda occupied a position separated from all other ethnic people of the island, who formed relatively close affiliations among themselves, suggesting a separate origin of the former. The haplotypes and analysis of molecular variance revealed that Vedda people’s mitochondrial sequences are more related to the Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils’ than the Indian Tamils’ sequences.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/fig_tab/jhg2013112t2.html#figure-title Table 2. Haplogroup frequency in Sri Lankan population] (Mtdna) <br /> <br /> ''&quot;It has been hypothesized that the Vedda was probably the earliest inhabitants of the area ... dated tentatively to 37 000 YBP, were discovered from the cave site, Fahien-lena,8 on the island, with their association with the present-day Vedda people proposed on a comparative anatomical ground ... Vedda population has the lowest proportion of shared haplotypes among their subgroups (63%) indicating their greater genetic diversity among subgroups ... Vedda people had the lowest frequency of haplogroup M (17.33%). It is quite astonishing to see such a lower frequency of M haplogroup in the Vedda population ... This is probably due to the effect of genetic drift in the smaller population of Vedda ... Vedda people ... showed relatively high frequencies of haplogroup R (45.33 ... Haplogroup U was mostly found in Vedda (29.33%) ... Low frequency of M haplogroup and high frequencies of R and U haplogroups were found to be the unique characteristics of Vedda ... All the island populations, except some subgroups of the Vedda, form close genetic affiliations among themselves and with majority of the groups from the mainland suggesting the origin of the majority of the island population on the Indian mainland.&quot;'' [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 03:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich &amp; the Andaman-islanders ==<br /> <br /> [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Peopling_of_India&amp;type=revision&amp;diff=712218204&amp;oldid=712215834 Please...] This is a quote from Reich et al. (2009); you can't just change quotes as you like. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:11, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> == Reich et al. (2009) and the dating of the peopling of the Andaman-islands ==<br /> <br /> ===Haplogroups===<br /> I've removed the following &quot;info,&quot; because Reich et al. (2009) mentions nothing about these haplogroups, not about these dates:<br /> :''&quot;Andamanese are unique in that they were the only population in the study that lacked Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]].{{sfn|Reich|2009}} The authors thus suggest that the peopling of Andaman islands must have occurred before the appearance of Y-DNA [[Haplogroup CF (Y-DNA)|Haplogroup CF]] and [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogroup F]] and its descendants, around 60,000 ybp to 50,000 ybp.{{sfn|Reich|2009}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> The closest Reich gets to info like this is the following:<br /> :''&quot;Previous mtDNA analyses suggested that the Onge do not share any maternal ancestry with groups outside India within the last ,48,000 years19,39. Although the Onge do share ancestry with some rare haplogroups in some Indian tribal populations within the last ,24,000 years39,40, this observation is consistent with our inferred Onge–ASI clade, as long as the gene flow predated the ASI–ANI mixture that later occurred on the mainland.&quot;''<br /> <br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:23, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Ah, you copied it from [[:Andamanese people]]. Next time you do so, please say so in your edit-summary. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:26, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::And IP 117.221.28.87 really screwed-up there, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Andamanese_people&amp;diff=next&amp;oldid=678268662 adding false &quot;info&quot;]. Was that you too? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 21:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> :Yes, i copied and pasted it from Anamanese page but it does make sense that split between ASI and &quot;Andamanese&quot; component could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000 years ago with the emergence of [[Haplogroup CF]] or [[Haplogroup F-M89|Haplogorup F]]. This is because South Indian tribals are predominantly Y-haplogroup F, as oppose to the ''caste'' population. <br /> <br /> ===Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution===<br /> <br /> *Regrading emergence of Haplogroup F time period is around 55,000 to 44,000 BCE. [https://books.google.co.in/books?id=DuevAwAAQBAJ&amp;pg=PT48&amp;dq=Haplogroup+F+India&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;redir_esc=y#v=onepage&amp;q=Haplogroup%20F%20India&amp;f=false Architecture of First Societies: A Global Perspective By Mark M. Jarzombek ].<br /> <br /> :''&quot; This genetic strand (Haplogroup F) developed around 50,000 BCE, not in Africa but probably in India and was center of dispersion cloud that radiated northward into Asia. Facilitating this movement was dramatic warming of the climate during the period 55,000 - 44,000 BCE that allowed people to return to the Levant after an absense of 40,000 years. From there, humans encountered a vast stretch of semi-arid, grass-covered plains stretching from eastern France to Korea that allowed movement throughout Asia, yielding new haplogroups such as K, I, J, O, and others. Humans were spreading so quickly and over such a diverse geograpcal range that no single natural disaster could now impede their progress.''&quot;<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart] for tribal south indian Y-dna (forgers &amp; hill tribes) who are predominantly Haplogroup F (73% to 23%) but notice the ''caste'' south indians (farmers, warriors, brahmins) who carry this haplogroup only (12% to 5%). <br /> <br /> *This is from the study [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> :''&quot; The geographical origins of many of these HGs are still debated. However, the associated high frequencies and haplotype variances of HGs '''H-M69, F*-M89, R1a1-M17, L1-M27, R2-M124 and C5-M356''' within India, have been interpreted as evidence of an '''autochthonous origins of these lineages during late Pleistocene''', while the lower frequency within the subcontinent of J2-M172, E-M96, G-M201 and L3-M357 are viewed as reflecting probable gene flow introduced from West Eurasian Holocene migrations in the last 10 Kya.''&quot; <br /> <br /> :''&quot;F*-M89 was the only HG showing clear population-specific clusters among tribals (Paniya, Paliyan and Irula of HTF) suggesting long-term isolation&quot;''<br /> <br /> *[http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-HtVmJL1bx1M/ULo6gBQ-3rI/AAAAAAAABWk/jSPTvdAjejY/s640/TamilNaduT2a.png Here is the chart for tribal south indian Y-DNA] from [http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0050269#pone.0050269-Sahoo1 Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System]<br /> <br /> This distinction of &quot;ASI&quot; and &quot;Andamanese component&quot; could have occurred between 50,000 to 40,000. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :10,000 years are gone with one edit... Think of all those children who suddenly are pushed out of existence! But serious: 50,000 to 40,000 sounds credible (I didn't check your links yet, except Jarzombek; you'd see Hugo Reyes-Centeno (2016), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1040618215011891 ''Out of Africa and into Asia: Fossil and genetic evidence on modern human origins and dispersals''], ScienceDirect], but this is [[WP:OR]], of course. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: It was 42,500 years ago when split between ASI, Proto, East-Asia and Andamans occurred according to Reich et al. His chart on page 40 explain migrations in detail from out of Africa to modern population. I have added it in below (page 40). We could add it in quotes under Ancestral components, explaining migrations. [[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:26, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> === ASI and Andaman split ===<br /> Why Andaman forms distinct, fifth component? It's split from ASI 42,500 years ago according to Reich et al. (This time period is also when [[Haplogroup F-M89|Halpogroup F]] emerged in India.)<br /> <br /> ''&quot;These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. &quot;Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,&quot; &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al&lt;/ref&gt;&lt;ref&gt;http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/new-research-reveals-the-ancestral-populations-of-india-and-their-relationships-to-modern-groups/&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> <br /> [http://www.unzcloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/reich1.png Reich et al, (2009) divergence chart.] &lt;--- Look at this explained chart, it's from Figure 4 from Reich et al study, page number 40. &lt;ref&gt;https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf Reich et al study, figure chart, page number 40&lt;/ref&gt;<br /> *4,000 gens (100,000 yrs) ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens (50,000 yrs) ago: Split of ANI and ASI ancestors <br /> *'''1,700 gens (42,500 yrs) ago: Split of Asian populations (‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Andamanese/Onge)'''<br /> *600 gens (15,000 yrs) ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens (10,000 yrs)ago: Split of CEU and Adygei <br /> *200 gens (5,000 yrs) ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.&quot;'' <br /> <br /> As you can see, 42,500 years ago Proto-East Asian (AAA?), ASI and Andamanese split from 1,700 (42,000 yrs) generations ago and this is exactly around the time when CF and F emerged in South Asia.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 01:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> <br /> :That's a really nice chart! Ehm... You got it at one of [https://www.google.nl/search?num=100&amp;newwindow=1&amp;q=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;oq=%22Gene+flow+from+%E2%80%98proto-East+Asia%27+into+the+ancestral+population+of+ANI+and+West+Eurasians%22&amp;gs_l=serp.3...2712.4190.0.5886.4.4.0.0.0.0.128.438.1j3.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.ZvENFpILna8 these forums]? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Chart is from Reich et al 2009, see page number 40. I'll linked it. https://genetics.med.harvard.edu/reich/Reich_Lab/Publications_files/2009_Nature_Reich_India_Supplementary.pdf<br /> ::What's this Cp, this &quot;Asian split&quot; at 1,700 generations? Is this the Siberian connection? [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:27, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::: That is the split at '''1,700 gens''' (42,000 yrs) ago when ASI, proto-east asia, Andamans split into different groups.[[Special:Contributions/117.192.217.229|117.192.217.229]] ([[User talk:117.192.217.229|talk]]) 05:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::42k seems reasonable. [[User:Capitals00|Capitals00]] ([[User talk:Capitals00|talk]]) 06:09, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::Proto-East-Asia, thanks! Indeed, the Siberia-connection. And also the reason why Metspalu (2011) wrote that the Indo-Aryans should have introduced an Asian component, if they were the ANI. Which leaves the Harappans to be the ANI; but that's a different discussion. Though, for the nationalists among us: I think there's a lot of continuity between Harappans, BMAC, Indo-Aryans and India after ca. 1,000/500 BCE. Those Indo-Aryans were not blood-thirsty vandals, but groups of migrants who were laready acquainted with non-Indo-European cultures. But as I said, that's another doucssion. Best regards, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:18, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :::::: Proto-East-Asia, is not Siberian connection. Proto-East-Asian is not synonymous to East Asian. &quot;Proto-East-Asia&quot; gene flew into ANI and split again creating modern East Asian population. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 06:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Haak et al. (2015); see also [[Yamna culture]]:<br /> :''&quot;Autosomal tests also indicate that the Yamnaya are the most likely vector for &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; admixture into Europe.{{sfn|Haak|2015}} &quot;Ancient North Eurasian&quot; is the name given in literature to the genetic component which represents descent from the people of the [[Mal'ta-Buret' culture]], or some other people closely related to it. That genetic component is visible in tests of the Yamna people{{sfn|Haak|2015}} as well as modern-day Europeans, but not of Europeans predating the Bronze Age.{{sfn|Lazaridis|2014}}&quot;''<br /> {{reflist-talk}}<br /> * {{Cite journal | last1 =Haak | first1 =W. | year =2015 | title =Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe | journal =Nature | doi =10.1038/nature14317 | url =http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/02/10/013433 | ref =harv}}<br /> Correct me if I'm wrong. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 06:33, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::Reich et al is not clear about Proto-East Asian, it could be basal to something East related because Andamanese's Y-DNA is found mostly among East Asians. Basu et al mentions AAA being one of ASI split groups, that's what i have in mind. If you're wondering what CEU is then it's central european. <br /> *It makes sense that it could be related to [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 17:02, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ==Additional info from Reich et al. (2009)==<br /> @[[User:Joshua Jonathan|Joshua Jonathan]], we need to add new section titled &quot;Early migrations&quot; or &quot;peopling of eurasia&quot; before &quot;Ancestral Components&quot; based on reich et al diversions and formation of &quot;Indian Cline&quot;. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :You mean, like re-ordering some of the information? Good to see &lt;s&gt;your&lt;/s&gt; a username here! [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Reply by Kannadiga (Pebble101): <br /> ::1. We could maybe add section for reich et al's early human diversions timeline that i added here, before Ancestral components. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#ASI_and_Andaman_split]<br /> ::2. 'Proto-East-Asia' is some kind of basal east-asian, because Andamanese ''Y-DNA D'' is mostly found among East-Asian related groups outside Andaman today.<br /> ::3. ASI seems to have further evolved in mainland subcontinent after it's ''related groups'' Andaman &amp; Proto-east-asia split, likely with emergence of Y-DNA F which is dominant among tribal south Indians as mentioned here[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution]<br /> ::4. In Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution, we need to add this first point[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Peopling_of_India#Glacial_period_and_Paleolithic_revolution] regrading dispensation of F and it's descendants during post Glacial period. <br /> ::5. I have re-worded &amp; updated this in Ancestral components based on Reich et al study : ''According to Reich et al. (2009), ASI, 'Proto-East-Asia' and Andaman islanders split around 42,500 years ago. Andamanese were unique in that they were the only population in the study without ANI ancestry.''[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 19:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Wow! You're putting me on some additional homework! But, that's nice; I like it to be challenged.<br /> :::ad 1: that's a very good idea. I'd never seen tbis additional material, and I'm glad the chart comes from Reich himself (additional material p.40). I'd love to use it, but I guess it's copy-righted, so we'll have to redraw it ourselves, I'm afraid. And I'll have to read that stuff. But it's really a great chart!<br /> :::ad 2: this is the split between Europeans and Asians? Makes sense.<br /> :::ad 3: yes, I figured that too. It's also what several authors wrote - but I don't have references at hand...<br /> :::ad 4: did you read the link to this theory on 'Out of Africa into the Arabian vestibule'? Dienekes blogspot adheres to the same theory. The/an alternative theory is a back-migration from India to Europe, isn't it, as Jarzombek claims? I don't know if Jarzombek is right (I guess not), but it's fascinating point, for which we need additional sources. More homework to do!<br /> :::ad 5: I reverted you there, because Recih et al. (2009) p.489 does ''not'' make that point. Now that I know it's based on the additional material, I understand. But you'll have to properly source it!<br /> :::Best regards, and thanks for the additional material, [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:10, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::Ah, and now I see what you mean with adding a new section based on Reich. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{od}}<br /> Ad 1: copyrights for Nature: [http://www.nature.com/authors/policies/license.html publishing licences] and [http://www.nature.com/reprints/permission-requests.html permission requests]. And via [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/ NCBI] (emphasis mine): <br /> :''&quot;Wholesale re-publishing is prohibited<br /> :''3. Archived content may not be published verbatim in whole or in part, whether or not this is done for Commercial Purposes, either in print or online. <br /> :''4. This restriction does not apply to reproducing normal quotations with an appropriate citation. In the case of text-mining, individual words, concepts and quotes up to 100 words per matching sentence may be reused, whereas longer paragraphs of text and '''images cannot''' (without specific permission from NPG).&quot;'' <br /> So, we'll have to draw it ourselves. Shouldn't be too difficult, though. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 20:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Reply by Kannadiga:<br /> :*To your question &quot;this is the split between Europeans and Asians?&quot; 50,000 years ago there was a split between Europe (ANI) and Asian (ASI). Later, ''Asian population'' split into 'Proto-east-asia', ASI, and Andamans 42,500 years ago. <br /> :*I can make the map if you want me to but we need to add various additional sources before we do it. There is not much info in Glacial period and Paleolithic revolution but sources for this can be found in here [[Haplogroup F-M89]].<br /> :*I have added source and page for my edit (regrading splitting of asians). <br /> :*We should unify Basu et al hidden notes into one note, along with the one next to AAA (it still forms it's ''own'' component). We can have two hidden notes, one for Reich et al and one for Basu et al, rather than two notes just for Basu et al.<br /> :*Regrading note next to AAA - It still forms it's ''own'' component even if it's split from ASI. Base et al treats it as such, it's four components, not three. Hidden-note next to AAA seems to be repeat of already added hidden-note in last paragraph of that section. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 21:31, 28 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::Thanks for the edit. I have to think about the notes, or you do it. I get the impression that you are a very fast thinker, even faster than I am; and I am already above the average... The downside of fast thinking is that you have to explain yourself to others, lest you lose them on the way. That's boring, I know; but the reward is great, if you can learn to &quot;translate.&quot; [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:03, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: Looks like you have done it yourself, faster than me. I seem to be the average one here. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> To be clear, this is our to-do list? <br /> * Merge notes<br /> * Add additional Reich-info, including chart<br /> * Learn more about the ASI-differentiation<br /> * Learn more about the the split between Europeans and Asians<br /> * Learn more about the Arabian/Indian vestibule<br /> I start with reading the additional Reich-info; in between I've got some real life work to do too, of course... [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:24, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :: Thank you, I will find more sources for each topic next few weeks so we can build upon that. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ===Merge notes===<br /> I've merged the doublure-notes. Yet, I think that Basu et al. (2016) are wrong on proposing that the AAA are early sttlers ''in India''; Holocene settlement seems more likely. See also the [[Munda people]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :I think AAA could represent various waves of migrations rather than just Holocene. &lt;small&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;autosigned&quot;&gt;—&amp;nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kannadiga|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;!-- Template:Unsigned --&gt;<br /> <br /> ::Maybe; but then, maybe not. One of those blogs stated that AA sprwad with rice-farming; when we speak of AAA, it's locus of origin may well be southeast Asia, not India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Additional Reich-info===<br /> [[File:Reich (2009) Ancestry Estimation Chart.png|thumb|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart|thumb|right|200px|Reich (2009 - Additional Material) Ancestry Estimation Chart (p.40)]]<br /> Here's the chart. But, without time-estimates; Reich doesn't mention the number of years per generation. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 15:38, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> :And, without time-estimates, I don't think that this chart adds additional info. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:04, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::Thank you, that chart is good. I agree it does not add additional information but reich et al's early human diversions gives a good idea on how the Indian Cline formed and it could be useful? Perhaps, we could add it in hidden-note somewhere but it's up to you. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I agree it could be usefull, to provide info on the formation of the Indian cline. NB: the additional info also says: <br /> ::::''&quot;The demographic parameters were chosen to roughly mimic parameters that emerged from previous studies of human historical expansions and contractions [15].&quot;''<br /> :::The source is: Keinan A, Mullikin JC, Patterson N, Reich D (2007) ''Measurement of the human allele frequency spectrum demonstrates greater genetic drift in East Asians than in Europeans.'' Nat Genet. 39, 1251-1255. I guess we'll have to look there for their info, and eventual dates. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:07, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::It's not int he article itself, so I'll guess it's in the supplementary notes. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ASI-differentiation===<br /> * Munda/AA:<br /> :* Razib Khan (2013), [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/01/phylogenetics-implies-austro-asiatic-are-intrusive-to-india/ ''Phylogenetics implies Austro-Asiatic are intrusive to India'']<br /> :* [http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.nl/2013/01/munda-as-intrusive-to-india.html ''Munda As Intrusive To India'']<br /> * Basu et al. (2016):<br /> :* Dienekes blogspot (2016), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/history-of-extant-populations-of-india.html ''History of extant populations of India''], see the comments to that post<br /> :* Eurogenes blogpsot (2016), [http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html ''http://eurogenes.blogspot.nl/2016/01/four-major-ancestries-in-mainland-india.html], see the comments<br /> * Moorjani (2013):<br /> :* [https://technaverbascripta.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/historical-linguistics-and-population-genetics/ ''Historical Linguistics and Population Genetics'']<br /> [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 10:58, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :The Munda are intrusive to India; Dravidian languages diverted fairly recently. So, ASI would be the first inhabitants, who evolved further, and/or plus early migrations from Austroasiatics from southeast Asia. Can we ever know exactly? NB: how large (small) was the ASI-population, compared to the fast-growing agricultural ANI-population? That is: ASI may have existed for millennia in small groups, while the ANI came fairly recently and/but in large groups [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:15, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::I agree with with you, ASI are first inhabitants and ASI further evolved in mainland subcontinent. ''Some'' AAA could have stayed in India after split while some might have migrated back into India in multiple waves from Southeast Asia before and after on set of rice-farming which is believed to be have been introduced from Southeast Asia into India. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> ::* We can see from this [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] that &quot;AAA&quot; speaking Indians seems to have closest pull towards Onge component. <br /> ::* This [http://i.imgur.com/chwfVIC.jpg chart] from from Anthrogenica also seems to show AAA's pull towards Onge component.<br /> ::* It seems that I-E and DR speakers in India somewhat cluster together due to ANI &amp; ASI admixture. AAA seems like an outliner group with pull towards Onge component.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 03:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::: The original migrants to India probably wouldn't look very different from the original migrants to anywhere else. They were coastal people who didn't venture inland. They are most likely to be like the Andamanese.<br /> :::: {{U|Kannadiga}} what do the PC1 and PC2 mean in the &quot;Moorjani et al - Chart&quot;? (Make sure that you distinguish between AA, which is a language family, and AAA, which is a hypothetical genome.) -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 07:52, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> ::::: <br /> *Yes, I understand but i was trying to make a point about what [http://www.pnas.org/content/113/6/1594.full.pdf Base et al] says how AAA and ASI are related. I was trying to say AAA &amp; ASI have been in contact after their split, as Base et al claims the split between ASI and AAA occurred in India. <br /> *That [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9i6jahCv_4/UgPApW5yg1I/AAAAAAAAJBA/OvlrTcEdAYE/s1600/moorjani.jpg Moorjani et al - Chart] shows how I-E &amp; DR Indians cluster together because of their ANI &amp; ASI admixture, while AA speakers in India form their own &quot;component&quot; with close pull towards Onge component. This shows that Base et al (2016) is right regrading AAA &amp; ASI being related.[[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 20:19, 30 March 2016 (UTC) <br /> <br /> ====Publications====<br /> A Google-Scholar search on [https://scholar.google.nl/scholar?start=40&amp;q=negrito+austroasiatic+india&amp;hl=en&amp;as_sdt=0,5&amp;as_ylo=2010&amp;as_yhi=2016 negrito austroasiatic india] from 2010 onwards alone yet gives 194 hits. Some highlights:<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; overview<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0301 Introduction: Revisiting the “Negrito” Hypothesis: A Transdisciplinary Approach to Human Prehistory in Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The consensus reached by the contributors to this '''special double issue of Human Biology''' is that there is not yet conclusive evidence either for or against the negrito hypothesis.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0323 Concluding Remarks. What's in a Name? “Negritos” in the Context of the Human Prehistory of Southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;The evidence presented in this double issue of Human Biology speaks more against the category of “negrito” than for it.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;&quot;Negrito&quot; specific<br /> * Benjamin (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0321 ''Why Have the Peninsular “Negritos” Remained Distinct?''], Human Biology 2013, nr. 1-3:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> * [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0319 Terror from the Sky: Unconventional Linguistic Clues to the Negrito Past]:<br /> ::''&quot;Given prehistoric language shifts among both Philippine and Malayan negritos, the prospects of determining whether disparate negrito populations were once a linguistically or culturally unified community would appear hopeless. Surprisingly, however, some clues to a common negrito past do survive in a most unexpected way.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Andaman Islands<br /> * Chaubey and Endicott (2013), [http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3378/027.085.0307 ''The Andaman Islanders in a Regional Genetic Context: Reexamining the Evidence for an Early Peopling of the Archipelago from South Asia''], Human Biology 85 (1-3):<br /> ::- ''&quot;these estimates suggest that the Andamans were settled '''less than ~26 ka''' and that differentiation between the ancestors of the Onge and Great Andamanese commenced in the Terminal Pleistocene.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;In conclusion, we find no support for the settlement of the Andaman Islands by a population descending from the initial out-of-Africa migration of humans, or their immediate descendants in South Asia. It is clear that, overall, the Onge are more closely related to Southeast Asians than they are to present-day South Asians.&quot; (p.167)''<br /> ::- ''&quot;At the current level of genetic resolution, however, there is no evidence of a single ancestral population for the different groups traditionally defined as “negritos.”&quot; (p.168)''<br /> * Wang et al. (2011), [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1673852711000324 Mitochondrial DNA evidence supports northeast Indian origin of the aboriginal Andamanese in the Late Paleolithic], Journal of Genetics and Genomics, Volume 38, Issue 3, 20 March 2011, Pages 117–122:<br /> ::''&quot;the Andaman archipelago was likely settled by modern humans from northeast India via the land-bridge which connected the Andaman archipelago and Myanmar '''around the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM)''', a scenario in well agreement with the evidence from linguistic and palaeoclimate studies.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;Austroasiatic:<br /> * Kumar et al. (2007), [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851701/ ''Y-chromosome evidence suggests a common paternal heritage of Austro-Asiatic populations'']], Evol Biol. 2007; 7: 47. doi: 10.1186/1471-2148-7-47<br /> * Goerge van Driem (2007), [http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2007MKS.pdf ''Austroasiatic phylogeny and the Austroasiatic homeland in light of recent population genetic studies'']:<br /> ::''&quot;the mitochondrial picture indicates that the Munda maternal lineage derives from the earliest human settlers on the Subcontinent, whilst the predominant Y chromosome haplogroup argues for a Southeast Asian paternal homeland for Austroasiatic language communities in India.&quot; (p.7)''<br /> * Reddy &amp; Kumar (2008), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470015902.a0020816/abstract;jsessionid=5AF45D7A668DC7DA2A4C6C107667E8F2.f02t04?userIsAuthenticated=false&amp;deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= ''Origins of the Austro-Asiatic Populations'']:<br /> ::''&quot; We infer a common paternal origin of Austro-Asiatics and the migration of paternal ancestors of Austro-Asiatic populations from East to South Asia, followed by the origin of Austro-Asiatic languages which subsequently spread to Southeast Asia, with primarily male-mediated migrations.&quot;''<br /> * Chaubey et al. (2010), [http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2010/10/origin-of-indian-austroasiatic-speakers.html ''Population Genetic Structure in Indian Austroasiatic speakers: The Role of Landscape Barriers and Sex-specific Admixture''], Mol Biol Evol (2010) doi: 10.1093/molbev/msq288:<br /> ::''&quot;We propose that AA speakers in India today are derived from dispersal from Southeast Asia, followed by extensive sex-specific admixture with local Indian populations.&quot;''<br /> * Immanuel Ness (2014), ''The Global Prehistory of Human Migration'', section ''Austroasiatic'' (p.264-267)<br /> * Arunkumar et al. (2015), [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jse.12147/suppinfo ''A late Neolithic expansion of Y chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95 from east to west''], Journal of Systematics and Evolution, Volume 53, Issue 6, pages 546–560, November 2015, DOI: 10.1111/jse.12147:<br /> ::''&quot;Y-Chromosomal haplogroup O2a1-M95, distributed across the Austro Asiatic speaking belt of East and South Asia [...] A serial decrease in expansion time from east to west: 5.7 ± 0.3 Kya in Laos, 5.2 ± 0.6 in Northeast India, and 4.3 ± 0.2 in East India, suggested a late Neolithic east to west spread of the lineage O2a1-M95 from Laos.&quot;''<br /> :* Miguel Vilar (2015), [http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2015/04/21/genographic-southeast-asia/ ''DNA Reveals Unknown Ancient Migration Into India''], National Geographic:<br /> :::''&quot;“Since O2a1 is accepted as the founding lineage of Austro-Asiatic languages (a group of related languages from Southeast Asia), the origin and spread of this lineage gives clues on the history of these speakers and the region. Our study shows a clear decrease in age and diversity of haplogorup O2a1 from Laos to East India, suggesting an east to west spread out of Southeast Asia,” explains Dr. ArunKumar about his findings.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;South Asia:<br /> * Thangaraj, [http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12038-012-9256-9 Complex genetic origin of Indian populations and its implications]<br /> * [http://www.olmec98.net/indohomo.pdf The Ancient Indian Populations Were Not Homogenous]<br /> <br /> ;Southeast Asia:<br /> * Jared Diamond, [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v512/n7514/full/512262a.html Population history: Human melting pots in southeast Asia]:<br /> ::''&quot;If the phenotype is many (as now seems likely), it must have resulted from parallel evolution in the several different regions where it has been claimed to exist. This would suggest (contrary to certain views that have been expressed on the basis of very partial genetic data) that the phenotype originated recently and by biologically well-authenticated processes from within the neighboring populations. Whole-genome and physical-anthropological research currently support this view.&quot;''<br /> <br /> ;East Asia<br /> * [http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822%2809%2902067-3?_returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0960982209020673%3Fshowall%3Dtrue The Human Genetic History of East Asia: Weaving a Complex Tapestry]<br /> <br /> At first sight, these publications seem to argue for a complex genetical and migrational history, which questions the straightforward existence of a &quot;negrito&quot; component. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 07:15, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Andaman Islands====<br /> Ah, what a joy to read the literature! See Chaubey and Endicott (2013) and Wang et al. (2011) above: the Andaman Islands were populated at &quot;less than ~26 ka,&quot; around the latest Glacial Maximum, and not by direct descendents of the first Out-of-Africa wave. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 13:10, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ====Austroasiatic====<br /> Well, there's a lot more than I'd expected. And it all, except for Basu et al. (2016), clearly points to a Holocene migration of Austroasiatic speakers from southeast Asia to India. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 09:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===ANI and ASI admixture time period===<br /> I found this interesting information that could be helpful regrading ASI and ANI mixture, quote is from Moorjani et al.[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3769933/] <br /> :Moorjani et al 2013 ''&quot;It is also important to emphasize what our study has not shown. Although we have documented evidence for mixture in India between about 1,900 and 4,200 years BP, '''this does not imply migration from West Eurasia into India during this time.''' On the contrary, a recent study that searched for West Eurasian groups most closely related to the ANI ancestors of Indians '''failed to find any evidence for shared ancestry between the ANI and groups in West Eurasia within the past 12,500 years'''. An alternative possibility that is also consistent with our data is that the ANI and ASI were both living in or near South Asia for a substantial period prior to their mixture. Such a pattern has been documented elsewhere; for example, ancient DNA studies of northern Europeans have shown that Neolithic farmers originating in Western Asia migrated to Europe about 7,500 years BP but did not mix with local hunter gatherers until thousands of years later to form the present-day populations of northern Europe.&quot;''<br /> <br /> This could mean ANI (after splitting from ''West Eurasians'') ASI were living in or near south asia some 12,000 years ago but did not mix until much later. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :Moorjani's statement needs to be qualified. See [[Talk:Peopling of India#ANI and 'before 12,500 years ago']] and [[Talk:Indo-Aryan migration theory#Moorjani (2013) and Kivisild (1999)]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 05:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :: Kannadiga's bold faced stuff has to be taken with a pinch of salt. There are two kinds of analyses being performed right now. Population genetics approaches, done by Metspalu &amp; co and a whole bunch of other groups, try to target isolated haplogroups. In contrast, the analysis of Reich Lab and Basu (2014) is full-genome analysis and is much more sophisticated. However, they don't have full genome databases of the populations surrounding India in order to identify where the ANI could have come from. And I haven't seen firm connections between concepts like ANI found in the full genome analysis and the haplogroups they talk about in population genetics research. So what is known about the origins of ANI is very little. I think Moorjani et al (2013) jumped the gun a bit in trying to draw conclusions from limited knowledge. We should ignore it. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Split between Europeans and Asians===<br /> This topic belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]], I think. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:07, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ===Arabian/Indian vestibule===<br /> This topic too belongs to [[:Peopling of the world]]. [[User:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;2&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Forte;color:black&quot;&gt;Joshua Jonathan&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] -[[User talk:Joshua Jonathan|&lt;font size=&quot;3&quot;&gt;&lt;span style=&quot;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;color:black&quot;&gt;Let's talk!&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/font&gt;]] 18:11, 29 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> <br /> {{od}}<br /> I agree, if it's necessary we should think about adding reich et al diversions in hidden-note/or hidden text somewhere appropriate. [[User:Kannadiga|Kannadiga]] ([[User talk:Kannadiga|talk]]) 01:32, 30 March 2016 (UTC)<br /> {{collapse top|for hidden text}}<br /> *4,000 gens ago Split of West African and Eurasian ancestors <br /> *2,000 gens ago: Split of Europe(ANI) and Asia(ASI) ancestors <br /> *1,700 gens ago: Split of Asian populations ‘proto-East Asia', ASI, and Onge (Andamanese)<br /> *600 gens ago: Gene flow from ‘proto-East Asia' into the ancestral population of ANI and West Eurasians, so that the proto-West Eurasian/ANI mixture proportion is mP. Most of our simulations assume mP=100% (no gene flow), but we vary this parameter to test the robustness of our procedure if the ancestors of ANI and West Eurasians were mixed. <br /> *400 gens ago: Split of CEU (Europeans) and Adygei(Caucasus)<br /> *200 gens ago: Age of the ancient mixture event that formed the Indian Cline.<br /> {{collapse bottom}}<br /> <br /> == New studies ==<br /> <br /> Please look at the following new study. Add relevant info to article.--[[User:Nizil Shah|Nizil]] ([[User talk:Nizil Shah|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2017 (UTC)<br /> * {{Cite journal|last=Blinkhorn|first=James|last2=Ajithprasad|first2=P.|last3=Mukherjee|first3=Avinandan|date=2017-05-16|title=Did Modern Human Dispersal Take a Coastal Route into India? New Evidence from Palaeolithic Surveys of Kachchh, Gujarat|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|journal=Journal of Field Archaeology|volume=0|issue=0|pages=1–16|doi=10.1080/00934690.2017.1323543|issn=0093-4690}}<br /> <br /> ==Ancient DNA studies==<br /> {{Ping|MomotaniSS}} What was the POV there? Only POV i saw there what you were pushing. Mondal et al 2017 study is as relevent as pre aDNA studies, which contradicts everything what recent Ancient DNA genetics has found. Y-DNA R2 was also found by Lazardidi et al study in Iran_Neolithic people. You also changed Shinde et al. 2019 study specifically wording East Siberian to East Asian when he says no such thing. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:12, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> &lt;s&gt;:The claim “...is as relevent as pre aDNA studies...” is POV for example. You can not decide what is relevant or not. Also this large scale structure changes should be discussed l. Why you add the new content not to the existing subsections?[[User:MomotaniSS|MomotaniSS]] ([[User talk:MomotaniSS|talk]]) 18:17, 10 January 2020 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;<br /> <br /> ::We actually know since aDNA lazaridie et al. 2014 and 2018 study that South Asians are not related to Southern Europeans or Levant (Anatolian shifted poplation), and that South Asians are relatated to (Iranian farmer-shifted population). They are very distinct farmer populations in ancestry as well. Both Narashiman and Shinde's aDNA study mentions this, specifically.[[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:21, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::{{Ping|MondtaniSS}} - I just went through the Mondol study and It specifically talks about Y-DNA clads being closer to Southern Europe and Levant, It says nothing about Indians being closer to them, neither nuclear DNA or autosumal DNA.<br /> <br /> {{Quote|text=the closest neighbours of Indian clades in our dataset are generally from Southern Europe (and not other European populations), a place known to have had more influence from the first Neolithic expansion from the Levant through Anatolia and less from the steppe migration which was perhaps responsible for the Indo-European expansion of languages in Europe; the future availability of ancient Y-chromosome sequences and reanalysis after merging available data from Western Asia will help to better interpret this finding |sign=Mondal et al. 2017|source=}}<br /> <br /> ::This study is specifically about Y-DNA, your misinterpretation of the study is POV. It does NOT say Indians are closer to Southern Europe or Levant. No wonder I was suprised by what you were suggesting as it goes against everything we have known since aDNA study, you misinterpreted the study. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 18:43, 10 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> :::I've struck through MomotaniSS's article as they were a block-evading sock, see [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WorldCreaterFighter]] [[User:Doug Weller|&lt;span style=&quot;color:#070&quot;&gt;Doug Weller&lt;/span&gt;]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] 14:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)<br /> <br /> ::::Thank you. He has added additional recent edits on there which is not mentioned in the provided source (no mention of Turkic or Austronesian admixture in Indians/Lankans in provided studies) along with pov interpretations. I'll be undoing them. [[User:Ilber8000|Ilber8000]] ([[User talk:Ilber8000|talk]]) 21:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC)</div> Ilber8000