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Talk:MuZero

2022-06-10T09:35:58Z

Parthian Scribe: /* "MuZero was trained via self-play, with no access to rules" */ new section

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== "MuZero was trained via self-play, with no access to rules" ==

This sounds impressive at first, but when you think about it the statement is nonsensical. For example, one of the rules of chess is that the player who captures the other's king wins the game. Without knowledge of this, any "self-play" would be meaningless, because a number of different board games can be played using chess pieces. You can learn the rules from looking at data, but then you cannot say the engine was trained by "self-play". This article needs clarification.

[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 09:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Plummer v. State

2021-02-07T04:07:59Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Undue weight towards alleged widespread false belief */ new section

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{{Old AfD multi| date = 17 March 2012 (UTC) | result = '''no consensus''' | page = Plummer v. State }}
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== Versions of Internet meme subsection ==

* '''Older version'''

''Plummer v. State'' is cited in Internet blogs and discussion groups but often misquoted.<ref>Robery Cubby, ''[http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/2014/12/10/the-right-to-resist-an-unlawful-arrest/ The Right to Resist An Unlawful Arrest]'', {{Smallcaps|Law Enforcement Today}} (Dec. 10, 2014); Paul Markel, ''[http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/do-you-have-the-right-to-resist-an-unlawful-arrest-2/ Do You Have the Right to Resist an Unlawful Arrest?]'' {{Smallcaps|The Blaze}} (May 9, 2014); Jon Roland, ''[http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest]'', {{Smallcaps|Constitution.org}} (July 10, 1996, as modified as of May 6, 2015); Google, ''[http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B%22Your+Right+of+Defense+Against+Unlawful+Arrest%22&tbs=li%3A1 Search:"Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest"]'' (May 6, 2015); Google, ''[https://www.google.com/search?q=%2B%22citizens+may+resist+unlawful+arrest+to+the+point+of+taking+an+arresting+officer’s+life+if+necessary%22&tbs=li%3A1 Search:"citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary"]'' (May 6, 2015);</ref>

<blockquote>"Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary." ''Plummer v. State'', 136 Ind. 306 [sic]. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: [[Bad Elk v. United States|''John Bad Elk v. U.S.'', 177 U.S. 529]]. The Court stated: "Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed."<ref>''[http://www.rayservers.com/blog/your-right-of-defense-against-unlawful-arrest Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest]'', {{smallcaps|Rayservers}} (Jan. 2, 2010, 1:00 PM); ''www.infowars.com/protesters-have-the-right-to-protest-%E2%80%A6-and-to-resist-unlawful-arrest/'', {{smallcaps|Infowars.com}} (Nov. 13, 2011, 7:52 AM); ''[http://freedom-school.com/right-of-defense-against-unlawful-arrest.html Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest]'', {{smallcaps|Freedom-school.com}} (Dec. 12, 2012, 12:26 PM).</ref></blockquote>

The above ''Plummer v. State'' quotation is a fabrication because the quoted text does not appear in the text of the ''Plummer'' opinion.<ref>Cubby.</ref> Modern sources describe ''Plummer'' and ''Bad Elk'' as applying when there is an unlawful use of force rather than when there is an unlawful arrest; under contemporary law in the majority of U.S. jurisdictions, a person may not use force to resist an unlawful arrest.<ref>Andrew P. Wright, ''Resisting Unlawful Arrests: Inviting Anarchy or Protecting Individual Freedom?'' 46 {{smallcaps|Drake L. Rev.}} 383, 387-88 (1997) (covering the common law rule, but noting that as of publication, 36 of the 50 states prohibited resisting unlawful arrests); ''see generally'' Darrell A.H. Miller, ''[http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ilj Retail Rebellion and the Second Amendment]'' 86 {{smallcaps|Ind. L.J.}} 939, 953 (2011); ''see also'' Scott H. Greenfield, ''[http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/02/21/bored-or-crazy-theyre-us/ Bored or Crazy, They're Us]'', {{smallcaps|Simple Justice}} (Feb. 21, 2013).</ref>

{{reflist-talk}}

*'''Revised version'''

''Plummer v. State'' is often wrongly characterized, for example characterizing it as supporting the claim that “citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary.”<ref>Robery Cubby, ''[https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20150106052548/http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/2014/12/10/the-right-to-resist-an-unlawful-arrest/ The Right to Resist An Unlawful Arrest]'', {{Smallcaps|Law Enforcement Today}} (Dec. 10, 2014); Scott H. Greenfield, ''[http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/02/21/bored-or-crazy-theyre-us/ Bored or Crazy, They're Us]'', {{smallcaps|Simple Justice}} (Feb. 21, 2013).</ref>

Modern sources describe ''Plummer'' and ''Bad Elk'' as applying when there is an unlawful use of force rather than when there is an unlawful arrest; under contemporary law in the majority of U.S. jurisdictions, a person may not use force to resist an unlawful arrest.<ref>Andrew P. Wright, ''Resisting Unlawful Arrests: Inviting Anarchy or Protecting Individual Freedom?'' 46 {{smallcaps|Drake L. Rev.}} 383, 387-88 (1997) (covering the common law rule, but noting that as of publication, 36 of the 50 states prohibited resisting unlawful arrests); ''see generally'' Darrell A.H. Miller, ''[http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ilj Retail Rebellion and the Second Amendment]'' 86 {{smallcaps|Ind. L.J.}} 939, 953 (2011)</ref>

{{reflist-talk}}

Now we can discuss them. I do see that we could well use a WL to Bad Elk in the second paragraph. That would be good, yes. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 23:57, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
:Yeah, a wikilink would solve all of the problems, except of course that the reader still won't have a clue why ''Bad Elk'' is even mentioned, since that part of the section was deleted. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 00:03, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::Step one: find out where you can compromise—find out where you can't. Step 2: list an [[WP:RFC|RfC]] about the latter. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 00:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::I know how to create and build articles, I've got five featured articles, all in the legal area. I've got a bunch of good articles, too. It's appropriate to quote [[User:Wehwalt|Wehwalt]] here:
<blockquote>''"This isn't an attempt to build an ideal society. We are building an encyclopedia here and the reader does not give a flying duck about what goes on behind the scenes. We are constrained by the legal and social limits of 2015, but as I have often said, we are not here to sing Kumbaya but to build an encyclopedia and this is the shop floor. Do you think anyone who visits, say, St. Peter's, while admiring, say, the stonework, would think the authorities in the 12th century should have suspended the chief stone mason from work for saying something nasty, or think the person who judges between the stone mason and the guy carting away the rubble should be someone who has expressed a hostile attitude towards skilled workers?"'' Wehwalt, 2015.</blockquote>
:::The problem arises when those who don't have competence in a particular field, especially a technical field like law, start screwing things up. This isn't the first time that I've dealt with this issue, and with the same individual. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 00:53, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::We can just add a note that Bad Elk is (ab)used the same way. This is not complicated. See below. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 01:14, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

*'''Further revised version'''

''Plummer v. State'' and ''[[Bad Elk v. United States]]'' are both often wrongly characterized as supporting the claim that people can use violence and even kill police officers to resist unlawful arrest.<ref>Robery Cubby, ''[https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20150106052548/http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/2014/12/10/the-right-to-resist-an-unlawful-arrest/ The Right to Resist An Unlawful Arrest]'', {{Smallcaps|Law Enforcement Today}} (Dec. 10, 2014); Scott H. Greenfield, ''[http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/02/21/bored-or-crazy-theyre-us/ Bored or Crazy, They're Us]'', {{smallcaps|Simple Justice}} (Feb. 21, 2013).</ref>

Modern sources describe ''Plummer'' and ''Bad Elk'' as applying when there is an unlawful use of force rather than when there is an unlawful arrest; under contemporary law in the majority of U.S. jurisdictions, a person may not use force to resist an unlawful arrest.<ref>Andrew P. Wright, ''Resisting Unlawful Arrests: Inviting Anarchy or Protecting Individual Freedom?'' 46 {{smallcaps|Drake L. Rev.}} 383, 387-88 (1997) (covering the common law rule, but noting that as of publication, 36 of the 50 states prohibited resisting unlawful arrests); ''see generally'' Darrell A.H. Miller, ''[http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ilj Retail Rebellion and the Second Amendment]'' 86 {{smallcaps|Ind. L.J.}} 939, 953 (2011)</ref>

{{reflist-talk}}

-- [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 01:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:Except that it is still screwed up. Whichever one of you moved the Greenfield reference didn't bother to make sure that it supported the material cited. It doesn't support the quoted material and needs to be moved to where it was when I added the reference. The section now also doesn't say anything about the cases being misquoted nor that ''Bad Elk'' is no longer good case law. I can fix it, but I'm not going to waste my time if the admins aren't going to post it, nor do I really feel like having to go behind you and QG to double-check your work. This is pretty much what happens every time you start to edit a legal article, from the time you started following {{ping|PraeceptorIP}} around to try and "fix" his articles. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 01:37, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::The Greenfield ref supports the statement that <s>both cases are</s> the bad elk case is wrongly characterized. It was the ref we needed for that and I glad you brought it. The place where you had originally put it, was in the last paragraph that says it is no longer good case law ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plummer_v._State&type=revision&diff=776243292&oldid=776242087 diff]). So what you write there is just ... strange. Unclear why you pinged Praceptor. Canvassing I reckon. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 01:40, 20 April 2017 (UTC) (redacted [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 01:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC))
:::No, it doesn't. Scott didn't mention ''Plummer'' at all. But if you want, I can email him to make sure what he was saying - but I can probably predict what he would say. Second, I haven't canvased anyone, I pinged Preceptor because I mentioned him in the discussion. When I get the RfC ready, I'll post it like I have before, as [[WP:LAW]] and [[WP:SCOTUS]]. That's not canvassing either. Of course, every time we've done that before, almost all of the legal editors point out that your position is not correct, from your problems understanding Bluebook to the actual matter cited from cases and secondary authorities. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 01:52, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::Yes Scott doesn't mention Plummer, only Bad Elk. So the use is correct in the re-revised version. The quote is here: "More to the point, I doubt Dorf (or LII’s Bruce) realizes how many people still contend that the Supreme Court’s John Bad Elk decision, authorizing the use of deadly force against an illegal police arrest, remains good law." [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 01:57, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

* Would you please propose a version that doesn't rely on invalid FRINGE sources like infowars or invalid sources like a google search? It is not impossible to reach agreement through discussion. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 02:02, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::You do understand that you can quote a fringe source for what idiocy that the fringe source actually said, so that you can then point out why it is fringe with a reliable source, don't you? [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 02:09, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::Actually no, we don't do that. This was discussed above. In any case we can resolve this locally if you would present a version without those kinds of sources. Would you please do that? thanks. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 02:15, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::Actually, we do. I'll prepare an RfC, like I said, but I'm not going to write a legal article based on your guidance. We'll let the community decide. Again. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 02:27, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

==Request for Comment - Internet meme section==
{{atop|result=[[WP:RFCEND|Withdrawn]] by requester based on initial comments of community, will revise to address concerns and resubmit [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 16:05, 20 April 2017 (UTC) |status=Withdrawn}}

Should the Internet meme section of the article be replaced with the following (between the three dash line on top and bottom):

---

''Plummer v. State'', along with ''[[Bad Elk v. United States]]'',<ref>''Bad Elk v. United States'', 177 U.S. 529 (1900).</ref> is cited in Internet blogs and discussion groups but often misquoted.<ref>Robery Cubby, ''[http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/2014/12/10/the-right-to-resist-an-unlawful-arrest/ The Right to Resist An Unlawful Arrest]'', {{Smallcaps|Law Enforcement Today}} (Dec. 10, 2014).</ref> A number of fringe websites purport to quote both cases, using the exact same language:

<blockquote>"Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary." ''Plummer v. State'', 136 Ind. 306 [sic]. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: ''John Bad Elk v. U.S.'', 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: "Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed."<ref>Jon Roland, ''[http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest]'', {{Smallcaps|Constitution.org}} (July 10, 1996, as modified as of May 6, 2015); ''[http://www.rayservers.com/blog/your-right-of-defense-against-unlawful-arrest Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest]'', {{smallcaps|Rayservers}} (Jan. 2, 2010, 1:00 PM); ''www.infowars.com/protesters-have-the-right-to-protest-%E2%80%A6-and-to-resist-unlawful-arrest/'', {{smallcaps|Infowars.com}} (Nov. 13, 2011, 7:52 AM); ''[http://freedom-school.com/right-of-defense-against-unlawful-arrest.html Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest]'', {{smallcaps|Freedom-school.com}} (Dec. 12, 2012, 12:26 PM) (none of the sites listed properly cite the cases, and none of the authors have any apparent legal training).</ref></blockquote>

The above ''Plummer v. State'' quotation is a fabrication because the quoted text does not appear in the text of the ''Plummer'' opinion.<ref>Cubby.</ref> Several other sources note that ''Bad Elk'' is no longer good law,<ref>Scott H. Greenfield, ''[http://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/02/21/bored-or-crazy-theyre-us/ Bored or Crazy, They're Us]'', {{smallcaps|Simple Justice}} (Feb. 21, 2013); Scott H. Greenfield, ''[https://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/05/21/taser-joe-martinez-meets-the-line/ “Taser Joe” Martinez Meets The Line]'', {{smallcaps|Simple Justice}} (May 21, 2013); ''see also'' Richard G. Kopf, ''[https://herculesandtheumpire.com/2014/08/16/swisher-sweets/ Swisher Sweets]'', {{smallcaps|Hercules and the Umpire}} (Aug. 16, 2014) (U.S. District Judge Kopf and several attorneys discuss ''Bad Elk'' in the comments).</ref> what one legal commenter stated was a "bizarre, irrational or merely grossly wrong understanding of law...."<ref>Scott H. Greenfield, ''[https://blog.simplejustice.us/2013/09/16/curb-your-catharsis/ Curb Your Catharsis]'', {{smallcaps|Simple Justice}} (Sep. 16, 2013).</ref> Modern sources describe ''Plummer'' and ''Bad Elk'' as applying when there is an unlawful use of force rather than when there is an unlawful arrest; under contemporary law in the majority of U.S. jurisdictions, a person may not use force to resist an unlawful arrest.<ref>Andrew P. Wright, ''Resisting Unlawful Arrests: Inviting Anarchy or Protecting Individual Freedom?'' 46 {{smallcaps|Drake L. Rev.}} 383, 387-88 (1997) (covering the common law rule, but noting that as of publication, 36 of the 50 states prohibited resisting unlawful arrests); ''see generally'' Darrell A.H. Miller, ''[http://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=ilj Retail Rebellion and the Second Amendment]'' 86 {{smallcaps|Ind. L.J.}} 939, 953 (2011).</ref>

{{reflist-talk}}

--- [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 04:01, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
===Survey===
Please limit entry to '''Support''' or '''Oppose'''.

*'''Support''', as proposer. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 04:01, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''oppose''' contains unreliable FRINGE sources like Infowars, and contains BLP policy-violating content, which is also [[WP:OR]], in the parenthetical comment in citation #3 describing the authors [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:04, 20 April 2017 (UTC) (tweaked w/out redaction [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 06:53, 20 April 2017 (UTC))
* '''Support:''' Wikipedia's rules exist to make articles better, not the other way around. The rules almost always result in a better article, but there are exceptions. [[WP:MEDRS]] is one good example; a special set of rules for a class of articles where following the normal rules makes the articles worse. [[WP:IAR]] specifically tells us '''"If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it."''' and this is a perfect example of an article where we need to apply that. [[WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY]] says '''"Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policies without consideration for their principles. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, not by tightly sticking to rules and procedures."''' This article was just fine the way it was for the last few years. It doesn't need "improving" by taking out content after we worked very hard and came to a consensus. Please read those previous discussions before opposing. We had and still have good reasons to make the decision that we made. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 05:15, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' and '''Delete''' the entire section. I have given many reasons previously in other areas of this talk page. Mostly there are no secondary sources, such as law reviews, that qualify as appropriate [[WP:RS]] talking about the subject. --[[User:David Tornheim|David Tornheim]] ([[User talk:David Tornheim|talk]]) 05:59, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' -- I see nothing wrong with the way it is. Rules are there to be broken and I'm happy if those rules are broken if it means it's a benefit to the article. '''[[User:Cassianto|Cassianto]][[User talk:Cassianto#top|Talk]]''' 06:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - contains unreliable FRINGE sources like Infowars. [[User:Govindaharihari|Govindaharihari]] ([[User talk:Govindaharihari|talk]]) 07:28, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' I'm OK with the sourcing for the specific purpose, and the phrasing seems appropriate.--[[User:Wehwalt|Wehwalt]] ([[User talk:Wehwalt|talk]]) 09:14, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. The editor was warned by an admin that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APlummer_v._State&type=revision&diff=776235255&oldid=776232946 infowars is a problematic source]. The text ''The above Plummer v. State quotation is a fabrication because the quoted text does not appear in the text of the Plummer opinion.[4]'' failed to pass V policy. The source being used does not verify the text being proposed. The RfC should be stopped. [[User:QuackGuru|'''QuackGuru''']] ([[User talk:QuackGuru|talk]]) 10:33, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose as written'''. No issue with the use of ''Infowars'' as a primary source supporting text stating that ''Infowars'' published something. But there are issues with OR, V, and NPOV (due, tone) which are not ignorable. - [[User:Ryk72|Ryk72]] [[User talk:Ryk72|'c.s.n.s.']] 11:34, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Infowars is a literal [[List of fake news websites|fake news]] site, it should not be cited for anything, anywhere outside [[Infowars]]. [[User:ValarianB|ValarianB]] ([[User talk:ValarianB|talk]]) 12:16, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' and '''Remove''' (possibly retaining a few words along the lines of "it's frequently misquoted/mischaracterized" in the preceding section if there are sources that say that it's frequently mischaracterized). I feel like I must be missing something for this to be at all controversial. As far as I can tell, none of these sources characterize it as an Internet meme but appear to be examples of mischaracterization (and I'll revise and take my lumps if I'm missing something -- I've only come across this via the RfC template at WP:W). Looking at a couple different versions, it seems to be different shades of OR in this regard. For any subject we can pull several sort-of-reliable-sometimes sources (that are nonetheless demonstrating unreliability in this case) along with some terrible sources to say "people are wrong on the Internet sometimes," citing IAR for something that's useful to the reader. The article can be clear about what the law does/doesn't say/mean without lending credibility ([[WP:PROFRINGE]]) to an incorrect interpretation by acknowledging it in this way. — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 12:26, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' and '''delete'''. It's bad enough when [[WP:OR]] and [[WP:SYNTH]] are violated using reliable resources, but this is one when someone has inserted a bunch of unreliable sources to do the same thing. Statements like "none of the sites listed properly cite the cases, and none of the authors have any apparent legal training" might be true but this is original analysis. I completely disagree with those who think that ignoring these rules improve Wikipedia. -[[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 12:29, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' I think some of the Oppose votes are misinterpreting the usage of the Infowars source. In particular [[User:Govindaharihari]] and [[User:ValarianB]]. [[User:Mr Ernie|Mr Ernie]] ([[User talk:Mr Ernie|talk]]) 13:32, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Opposer and delete''' section. Unnecessary compilation of OR and lack of RS. [[User:L3X1|L3X1]] [[User talk:L3X1|(distant write)]] 13:49, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

===Threaded discussion===
*'''Commment''', the proposed language is very similar to what the community consensus was at the end of several discussions in 2015 with several changes. First, two ABA Top 100 Blawgs were found as sources, ''Simple Justice'' by Scott Greenfield, a criminal defense attorney in NYC. That blog was a Top 100 Blawg from the first ABA listing until 2012, when it was placed in the ABA Blawg Hall of fame next to [[SCOTUSblog]]. The second, ''Hercules and the Umpire'', was a blog by U.S. District Judge Richard Kopf, which was also an ABA Top 100 Blawg in 2013 and 2014. Both blogs are/were widely read in the legal community. Note that the four references cited for the indented quotation are not necessarily reliable sources, they are fringe, as noted, and are cited as an example of how the law is misinterpreted and misapplied. Greenfield noted in one of the cited articles that the goal should be to make people more, rather than less knowledgeable. I believe that the proposed language does that as well as accurately reflex the sources. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 04:01, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::The use of the blog to refute FRINGE sources is fine. The use of the FRINGE sources and the parenthetical OR comment are not. Per [[WP:PARITY]] you can use a something like a blog by a reliable authority to describe and debunk FRINGE stuff; citing the FRINGE stuff itself is not OK. This is well established. Will post a notification of this RfC at [[WP:FRINGEN]]. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 04:05, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::Parenthetical comments are part of the [[Bluebook]] citation system and are not [[WP:OR|OR]]. You've been told this on numerous occasions, by a multitude of editors. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 04:37, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::Citations are within Wikipedia, and [[WP:OR]] is a Wikipedia policy. Bluebook style for formatting citations does not create a magical policy-free zone where editors can write [[WP:OR]]. Wow. The parenthetial remark also violates [[WP:BLP]] - you are proposing to add comments about living people - negative ones - to the article without sourcing. So a double policy violation, actually. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 05:40, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::I cannot hear your words (saying that certain parts need to be reworded) because of your deafening actions (deleting the entire section). Fringe sources such as infowars are acceptable as sources for the opinions of infowars itself, and fringe sources that are widely discussed by many reliable sources and quoted by many other fringe sources are prominent adherents of the fringe views in question. General comments about infowars by reliable sources establish that infowars is a prominent adherent of the fringe views held by infowars. There is no requirement that reliable sources cover every one of the batshit insane things that Alex Jones says. In fact when Jones says things like "no one died" at Sandy Hook Elementary School and that the victims were "child actors", that the World Order replaced his wife with a lizard person, or that that top Democratic officials were involved with a satanic child pornography ring centered around Comet Ping Pong, a pizza restaurant in Washington, D.C., is it any wonder that reliable sources focus on those stories rather than his claims about Plummer v. State? --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 05:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::I didn't delete the section, i moved it to the talk page for discussion because it was contested. This is entirely normal and I fully expected we would move it back when it was agreed upon. While I personally agree with your assessment of Jones, putting unsourced OR about a living person in an article is way out of bounds. more importantly there is no need to cite infowars. It is always better to rely on secondary sources than a pile of primary sources for a claim like the one we want to make in the article about this being widely misconstrued. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 05:52, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::::First, there is no BLP violations, and to claim that there are is both stretching and disingenuous. Nothing negative was said in a parenthetical. Next, you've brought up the parenthetical/[[WP:OR|OR]] issue on almost every legal article you've seen that was authored by a lawyer using the Bluebook citation style. Everytime you've done so, consensus stated that it was not OR. I've offered to work with you on legal articles and legal citation style, but you have refused, yet you have not become competent in either. You've got to step up and catch up if your going to be successful in this particular area of the project. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 06:16, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::::You cannot write what you did about living people without a reliable source in WP. Cannot. And as I already said, it is la-la land that some citation style creates a magical bubble within WP where you can violate OR and BLP. La la land. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 06:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
{{od}}Sure I can. Nothing in the parentheticals were negative nor untrue. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 07:04, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:There are DS on BLP for pete's sake. No you cannot just write whatever you want about living people. I am not entertaining this further but feel free to keep digging your hole here. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 07:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::That doesn't surprise me, that you want to drop it now, you haven't identified exactly what was a BLP violation, other than just a vague assertion. There was nothing that was either negative or derogatory towards anyone who was living. As is your typical method, you start making all sort of allegations without evidence. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 07:48, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::Not dropping, just no point responding to you further. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 07:50, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::Yeah, I didn't think that you could identify anything that was negative or derogatory. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 07:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::Of course I did, several times. I will keep saying no as long as you keep misrepresenting me. Boring, but whatever. [[User:Jytdog|Jytdog]] ([[User talk:Jytdog|talk]]) 08:09, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Question'''. {{ping|Guy Macon}} In your !VOTE above, you suggest that we should IAR; which ''rule'' are you suggesting we ignore? - [[User:Ryk72|Ryk72]] [[User talk:Ryk72|'c.s.n.s.']] 07:32, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:*May it was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APlummer_v._State&type=revision&diff=776235255&oldid=776232946 ignoring this] or maybe it was ignoring [[WP:OR]] policy. [[User:QuackGuru|'''QuackGuru''']] ([[User talk:QuackGuru|talk]]) 10:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::*Say Infowars ''is'' removed, what do editors think about the veracity of the other sources that are cited alongside it? [[User:El_C|El_C]] 11:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::*They are all crap. For example, the bottom of the rayservers link states "Posted by ChiefSteve <nowiki>http://www.myspace.com/chiefsteve</nowiki>". -[[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 12:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::*''All?'' Please be thorough. Let's avoid generalizations and be detailed in our responses. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 12:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::*I've looked at all of them and I think my generalization of constitution.org, rayservers.com, infowars.com, and freedom-school.com is accurate and should suffice. If you disagree, you can make your case for which of those are good sources or take it to WP:RSN. -[[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 12:36, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::*I have no opinion. But I want serious engagement. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 13:13, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
:::::::*You really want serious engagement that something cited to "ChiefSteve" in MySpace is not a good source?! Come on. You've been on Wikipedia for longer than I have. -[[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 13:22, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
::::::::*Looking for something more articulate and expansive then {{tq|"[t]hey are all crap."}} Serious engagement please. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 14:12, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
*'''Commment''' Firstly, the parenthetical in the source is a blatant BLP violation (on top of OR) and has to go. To say a bunch of living people are uninformed or unqualified to give an opinion on a subject is definitively a negative claim. No matter the truth of the claim, a negative claim about a living person has to be attributed to an RS that is discussing that particular person. The second Greenfield source doesn't address any of the fringe sources being used specifically. In fact it's talking about a friend's subreddit that has nothing to do with any sources being used here. The argument that such parenthetical use is a common legal citation style has no bearing here as we're not writing an essay or legal commentary. If the citation style violates policy it can't be used.

:I also have a problem with the quote itself. Who is this quote attributed to? The Infowars source doesn't seem to have that full quote in it. We're not quoting an actual decision here, it's a made up, so someone had to make it up to begin with. I'm not comfortable with a quote attributed to a bunch of sources, at least one of which doesn't even contain it. If this meme is even notable, then the proper way to deal with it per FRINGE is to use qualified RS that specifically both define and refute it. If Greenfield is qualified, for instance, then you could use him to say that these decisions are often misconstrued on internet sites then use his quote that is already there. Fringe internet memes that don't originate from a particular source, but are simply popular now, need an RS to say so to be notable. It's not like, say, a specific fringe claim made by an already notable person. In that case the fringe claim may simple inherit notability form its already notable source if that's what the person is mainly known for. [[User:Capeo|Capeo]] ([[User talk:Capeo|talk]]) 15:36, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
{{abot}}

== Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2019 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Plummer v. State|answered=yes}}
I don't get this site... I posted facts showing the court case in question is not a meme... The other person quoted a blog... I don't get this site at all... [[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:4000:9F90:49FB:2C24:B495:6FAC|2600:1700:4000:9F90:49FB:2C24:B495:6FAC]] ([[User talk:2600:1700:4000:9F90:49FB:2C24:B495:6FAC|talk]]) 18:50, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
:{{not done}}. See the discussion directly above. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 18:53, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

== Why do you censor info? ==

Ray Rosas a hispanic man shot 3 of them, legally. "CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas — A Nueces County jury that acquitted a man who shot Corpus Christi police officers executing a raid on his home said a “botched” operation and contradicting testimony led to their decision." https://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/249036006-Man-accused-of-shooting-Texas-officers-aquitted/

Henry Magee killed one as well. "DALLAS — A Central Texas man who shot and killed a sheriff's deputy entering his home will not be charged with capital murder, attorneys said Thursday. A local grand jury declined Wednesday to indict Henry Goedrich Magee for the Dec. 19 death of Burleson County Sgt. Adam Sowders, who was part of a group of investigators executing a search warrant for Magee's rural home." https://www.policeone.com/drug-interdiction-narcotics/articles/6815003-No-murder-charge-for-man-who-fatally-shot-Texas-deputy/

Jessie Murray a black man also has killed one... "Murray’s account of what happened during a 2014 bar fight was that Forest Park police Officer Nathan Adams jumped Murray and Murray accidentally shot and killed Adams. " https://www.ajc.com/news/local/murder-charges-dropped-against-man-trial-for-shooting-death-former-officer/yGKSqDSNl1GUdlBbRcLJ4N/

"Two Maryland police officers were shot while serving a drug-related search warrant at the wrong apartment late Wednesday, according to law enforcement officials. The resident shot the officers as soon as they opened the door, thinking they were home invaders, authorities said. No criminal charges will be filed against the man, Prince George's County Police Chief Hank Stawinski said Thursday." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/maryland-police-shot-prince-georges-county-entering-wrong-home-search-warrant/

Daniel Szabo shot at coast guard members trying to board him and was only charged with failure to stop since the boarding was illegal. "A federal jury has found a man accused of firing at a U.S. Coast Guard crew not guilty of both weapons charges handed down in an indictment by a grand jury in September.

Daniel Michael Szabo, 41, was facing a possible life prison sentence for charges of trying to kill a Coast Guard officer during a boarding and using a firearm while committing a violent crime.

But jurors on April 6 only found Szabo guilty of failing to stop his vessel when ordered to do so by the Coast Guard." https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/florida-keys/article71016982.html

Hell Tupac killed 2 cops. Why do you censor info? why call it a meme? This is why people don't respect wiki.
"In October 1993, in Atlanta, two brothers and off-duty police officers, Mark and Scott Whitwell, were with their wives celebrating Mrs. Whitwell's passing of the state bar examination. The officers were drunk and in possession of stolen guns. As they crossed the street, a car with Shakur inside passed them or "almost struck them". The Whitwells argued with the driver, Shakur, and the other passengers, who were joined by a second passing car. Shakur shot one officer in the buttocks and the other in the leg, back, or abdomen, according to varying news reports. Mark Whitwell was charged with firing at Shakur's car and later lying to the police during the investigation. Shakur was charged with the shooting. Prosecutors dropped all charges against the parties" It's ironic since its also on your own site... I just don't get these mods. When you cite info/fact and they choose a blog over it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur#Legal_issues — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:4000:9F90:49FB:2C24:B495:6FAC|2600:1700:4000:9F90:49FB:2C24:B495:6FAC]] ([[User talk:2600:1700:4000:9F90:49FB:2C24:B495:6FAC#top|talk]]) 18:53, 16 July 2019 (UTC) 

: Yes, the current article has many problems with sources, but most of the comments above are [[WP:SYN]]. WP wants sources that discuss these cases with respect to Plummer. That somebody shot a police officer and was not convicted does not mean that Plummer applies. The defendant must know that an officer is attempting an arrest. Off-duty officer in plainclothes? Why would the D know the person is an officer? Was the off-duty officer even attempting an arrest? Waking up from a sound sleep because some unknown person is trying to bash your door in? The person waking up does not know they are police. I do not doubt the court cases, but most of them seem distinguishable from Plummer. [[User:Glrx|Glrx]] ([[User talk:Glrx|talk]]) 16:15, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

::None of the cases listed involve Plummer, nor, for that matter, is Plummer even applicable to the jurisdictions in which the shootings occurred. [[User:GregJackP|GregJackP]] [[User talk:GregJackP|Boomer!]] 06:21, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

"The defendant must know that an officer is attempting an arrest. "
Nowhere does it say that, literally nowhere, that's your interpretation of the law. But here ill give you the benefit of the doubt. Say it did say that. 2 of my sources cops say they announced themselves.
Shooting at a coast guard boat with coast guards on-board, trying to pull you over,ramming them, etc doesn't qualify as "must know that an officer is attempting an arrest." Really... Im sorry, but call me crazy on that one but wow, really?
In Magee's case the officers did say they announced themselves.... That was their defense... Why don't you try reading before denying? This is why I called out a lot of mods on this thread.
"I believe the evidence also shows that an announcement was made," Renken said. "However, there is not enough evidence that Mr. Magee knew that day that Peace Officers were entering his home."
Anyone will say they don't know who is entering their home, Plummer v State/Bad Elk v US be damned. Its just a good defense for a lawyer to present.
"but is no longer considered good law in a growing number of jurisdictions. Most states have, either by statute or by case law, removed the unlawful arrest defense for resisting arrest."
Plummer v State/Bad Elk v State is a federal ruling. Bad Elk v US it isn't restricted to single states, or a single jurisdiction, it's once again federal. You guys also changed my post there... Yet only the Supreme court or Court of Appeals can overturn a Supreme court decision(s) ,that has never happened here. No one can find it and cite it since it was never stricken down. Hence you using a blog as a citation and/or no citations at all. They(the justices) would have to literally vote on it to change the law. It would be easy to find if it happened.
This is another reason why I call this entire article out people don't read and rather go off blog websites. PoliceOne is a police officer website... One of my articles is one of their safety articles...
The fact you call it a meme when multiple sources contradict that is just insane to me.
Please do not respond to me/my posts again, I don't like dealing with trolls(someone who won't even read my sources) I will also refrain from commenting towards you. (Enjoy the last word if you so choose)

"Plummer v. State, along with Bad Elk v. United States,[19] is cited in Internet blogs and discussion groups but often misquoted.[20] The misquote is that "citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary" although the Plummer quotation is a fabrication because the quoted text does not appear in the text of the Plummer opinion"
It's funny since if you pull the case up its right there... Page 537/538. If I can upload the PDF of the original case I can as well...
https://casetext.com/case/john-bad-elk-v-united-states

== Undue weight towards alleged widespread false belief ==

The following sentence should be removed from the lead:

:It is widely quoted on the internet, under the false belief that it gives citizens the right to resist an unlawful arrest by force, including deadly force.

It reads like the author is trying to tell the reader that if they learned about Plummer v. State from the internet, then what they read is probably an urban myth. I think this accusatory language should not be in the lead. I think an objective summary of the facts of the case would be better suited for this article's lead. If there is a widespread false belief on the internet related to this case, it can be addressed in later sections. Putting it in the lead makes it seem like it is central to the topic, which in this case I don't think it is. Additionally, the distinction between the allegedly widespread myth and the reality of the court decision is a fairly small one, which is another reason why I think it is wrong to make "urban myth" the focal point of this article.

[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 04:07, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Sabbath

2020-01-05T00:18:47Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Unification Church */ adding Baha'i day of rest

{{short description|Day set aside for rest and worship}}
{{About|rest or worship time}}
[[File:GOOD SHABBES -.jpg|thumb|Welcoming the Sabbath with candlelighting]]
The '''Sabbath''' ({{IPAc-en|ˈ|s|æ|b|ə|θ}}) ({{Lang-he|שַׁבָּת}}) is a day set aside for rest and worship. According to the [[Book of Exodus]] the Sabbath is a day of rest on the seventh day, [[Ten Commandments|commanded]] by [[God]] to be kept as a [[Holiday|holy day]] of rest, as God rested from [[Genesis creation narrative|creation]].<ref>http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sabbath</ref> The practice of observing the Sabbath ([[Shabbat]]) originates in the biblical commandment "[[Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy]]".

The term may describe a weekly observance in a number of religions.

==Biblical Sabbath==
{{details|Biblical Sabbath}}
[[Biblical Sabbath|Sabbath]] (as the verb שָׁבַת֙ ''šāḇaṯ'') is first mentioned in the [[Genesis creation narrative]], where the seventh day is set aside as a day of rest (in Hebrew, ''shabbath''), and made holy by [[God]] ({{Bibleverse||Genesis|2:2–3|KJV}}). Observation and remembrance of Sabbath ({{Lang-he|שַׁבָּת}} ''šabbaṯ'') is one of the [[Ten Commandments]] (the fourth in the original [[Jewish]], the [[Eastern Orthodox]], and most [[Protestant]] traditions, the third in [[Roman Catholic]] and [[Lutheran]] traditions). Most Jews who observe the Sabbath regard it as having been instituted as a perpetual [[covenant (Biblical)|covenant]] for the [[Israelites]] ({{Bibleverse||Exodus|31:13–17|KJV}}), as a sign respecting two events: the day during which God rested after having completed [[Genesis creation narrative|Creation]] in six days ({{Bibleverse||Exodus|20:8–11|KJV}}), and the Israelites' [[The Exodus|deliverance from Egypt]] ({{Bibleverse||Deuteronomy|5:12–15|KJV}}). However, most Sabbath-keeping Christians (who are a very small minority among Christians) regard the Sabbath as having been instituted by God at the end of Creation week, and that the entire world was then, and continues to be, obliged to observe the seventh day as Sabbath. Originally, [[Sabbath breaking|Sabbath-breakers]] were officially to be [[List of capital crimes in the Torah#Religious practices|cut off from the assembly or potentially killed]] ({{Bibleverse||Exodus|31:15|KJV}}). Observance in the [[Hebrew Bible]] was universally from [[Day#Boundaries of the day|sixth-day sundown]] to seventh-day sundown ({{Bibleverse||Nehemiah|13:19|KJV}}, cf. {{Bibleverse||Leviticus|23:32|KJV}}),<ref>{{cite web|title=cev bible, search keyword 'like sabbath'|url=https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=like+sabbath&qs_version=CEV}}</ref> on a [[seven-day week]]. Consultations with prophets (II Kings iv. 23) were sought on the Sabbath.<ref>Emil G. Hirsch, Joseph Jacobs, Executive Committee of the Editorial Board., Julius H. Greenstone. (1905). "Sabbath". Jewish Encyclopaedia : a descr. record of the history, religion, literature, and customs of the Jewish people from the earliest times to the present day. New York : Funk & Wagnall, p. 587. Retrieved 13 May 2016. [http://d2b4hhdj1xs9hu.cloudfront.net/I1LL587Q.jpg JewishEncyclopedia.com]</ref> Sabbath corporate worship was not prescribed for the community at large and the Sabbath activities at the shrines were originally a convocation of priests for the purpose of offering divine sacrifices with family worship and rest being centered in homes.<ref>Fruchtenbaum, Arnold G. (2001). Israelology: the missing link in systematic theology. Tustin, Calif.: Ariel Ministries. pp. 595–601. {{ISBN|0914863053}}</ref><ref>Goldberg, Louis A. (1980). Leviticus: A Study Guide Commentary. Grand Rapids:Zondervan Publishing House. p. 116. {{ISBN|9780310418139}}</ref>

==Judaism==
{{see also|Hebrew calendar}}
Jewish ''Shabbat'' (''Shabbath'', ''Shabbes'', ''Shobos'', etc.) is a weekly day of rest, observed from sundown on Friday until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night. It is also observed by a minority of Christians, such as adherents of [[Messianic Judaism]] and [[Seventh-day Adventist]]s. [[Activities prohibited on Shabbat|Thirty-nine activities prohibited on ''Shabbat'']] are listed in Tractate ''[[Shabbat (Talmud)|Shabbat]]'' ([[Talmud]]). Customarily, ''Shabbat'' is ushered in by lighting [[candle]]s shortly before sunset, at [[halakhic]]ally calculated times that change weekly and geographically.

''Shabbat'' is a widely noted hallmark of Jewish peoples. Several weekly ''Shabbat''s per year are designated as [[Special Sabbaths]], such as ''Shabbat haGadol'', prior to [[Pesach]] (literally, "the High Sabbath", but not to be confused with other [[High Sabbaths]]); and ''Shabbat Teshuvah'', prior to [[Yom Kippur]] ("Repentance Sabbath").

===Shabbaton===
{{Main article|Shabbaton}}
Colloquially, in contemporary Israel, the term ''Shabbaton'' or ''Shaboson'' may mean an event or program of education and usually celebration held on ''[[Shabbat]]'', or over an entire [[weekend]] with main focus on ''Shabbat''. Such events are held by youth groups, singles groups, synagogues, schools, social groups, charitable groups or family reunions, can be either multi-generational and wide-open or limited-group, and can be held where a group usually meets or offsite. "''Shabbaton''", rather than just "[[Retreat (spiritual)|retreat]]", signifies recognition of the importance of ''Shabbat'' in the event or program.{{Citation Needed|date=June 2018}}. Another meaning of the term is what in English is called "Sabbatical" - a period of paid leave from work, common mostly in educational systems.

==Christianity==
{{Main article|Sabbath in Christianity}}
{{See also|Gregorian calendar}}
In [[Eastern Christianity]], the Sabbath is considered still to be on [[Saturday]], the seventh day, in remembrance of the Hebrew Sabbath. In [[Catholic Church|Catholicism]] and most sects of Protestantism, the "[[Lord's Day]]" (Greek Κυριακή) is considered to be on Sunday, the first day (and "eighth day"). Communal worship, including the Holy Mysteries, may take place on any day, but a weekly observance of the resurrection is made consistently on Sunday. [[Western Christianity]] sometimes refers to the Lord's Day as a "Christian Sabbath", distinct from the Hebrew Sabbath, but related in varying manner.

===First-day===
{{details|Puritan Sabbath}}
Since [[Puritan]] times, most English-speaking [[Protestant]]s identify the "[[Lord's Day]]" (viz., Sunday) with a "[[Sunday Sabbath|Christian Sabbath]]", a term [[Roman Catholic]]s in those areas may also celebrate with the [[Eucharist]]. It is considered both the first day and the "eighth day" of the seven-day week. Members of [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]] generally follow the stronger of first-day Christian Sabbatarian traditions, avoiding shopping, leisure activities, and work unless absolutely necessary. In [[Tonga]], all commerce and entertainment activities cease on Sunday, starting at midnight and ending the next day, at midnight, as Tonga's constitution declares the Sabbath sacred forever.<ref>{{cite web |title=Constitution of Tonga |url=https://www.parliament.gov.to/parliamentary-business/documents/constitution-of-tonga/file/115-constitution-of-tonga-revised-1988 |website=Parliament of Tonga |accessdate=20 August 2018}}</ref> In [[Oriental Orthodoxy]], the [[Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church]] has observed both Sunday Resurrection Day and [[Saturday Sabbath]] in different ways for several centuries, as have other [[Eastern Orthodox]] traditions.

[[Puritan]] Sabbatarianism or [[Reformed]] Sabbatarianism is strict observance of [[Sabbath in Christianity]] that is typically characterized by its avoidance of [[leisure|recreational]] activities. "Puritan Sabbath", expressed in the ''[[Westminster Confession of Faith]]'', is often contrasted with "[[Continental Europe|Continental]] Sabbath": the latter follows the Continental [[Reformed Christian confessions of faith|Reformed confessions]] such as the ''[[Heidelberg Catechism]]'', which emphasize rest and [[worship]] on [[Lord's Day]], but do not forbid recreational activities.

===Seventh-day===
{{Main article|Sabbath in seventh-day churches}}
Several Christian denominations observe Sabbath in a similar manner to Judaism, though with observance ending at Saturday sunset instead of Saturday nightfall. Early church historians [[Sozomen]] and [[Socrates of Constantinople|Socrates]] cite the seventh day as the Christian day of worship except for the Christians in Rome and Alexandria. Many Sabbatarian Judeo-Christian groups were attested during the Middle Ages. The [[Waldensians]], a religious group founded during the 12th century, are regarded as one of the first Post-Constantinian Christian groups to observe the seventh-day Sabbath. The [[Szekler Sabbatarians]] were founded in 1588 from among the [[Unitarian Church of Transylvania]] and maintained a presence until the group converted to Judaism in the 1870s. [[Seventh Day Baptist]]s have observed Sabbath on Saturday since the mid-17th century (either from sundown or from midnight), and influenced the (now more numerous) [[Seventh-day Adventists]] in America to begin the practice in the mid-19th century. They believe that keeping [[seventh-day Sabbath]] is a moral responsibility equal to that of any of the other [[Ten Commandments]], based on the example of [[Jesus]]. They also use "Lord's Day" to mean the seventh day, based on Scriptures in which God calls the day "my Sabbath" ({{Bibleverse||Exodus|31:13|KJV}}) and "to the {{LORD}}" ({{Bibleverse||Exodus|16:23|KJV}}) and in which Jesus calls himself "Lord of Sabbath" ({{Bibleverse||Matthew|12:8|KJV}}). The question of defining Sabbath worldwide on a round earth was resolved by some [[seventh-day Sabbatarian]]s by making use of the [[International Date Line]] (i.e., permitting local rest-day adjustment, {{Bibleverse||Esther|9:16–19|KJV}}), while others (such as some [[Alaska]]n Sabbatarians) keep Sabbath according to [[Jerusalem]] time (i.e., rejecting manmade temporal customs, {{Bibleverse||Daniel|7:25|KJV}}). Many of the [[Lemba people|Lemba]] in [[southern Africa]], like some other African tribes, are Christians and claim [[African Jews|common descent]] from the Biblical [[Israelites]], keep one day a week holy like Sabbath, and maintain many beliefs and practices associated with Judaism.

===Seventh-day versus First-day===
{{Main article|Sabbath in Christianity|Sabbath in seventh-day churches}}

In 321 AD, Roman emperor [[Constantine the Great]] enacted the first civil law regarding Sunday observance. The law did not mention the Sabbath by name, but referred to a day of rest on "the venerable day of the sun."
{{quote|On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrate and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however, persons engaged in agricultural work may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain growing or for vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.<ref>Schaff’s History of the Christian Church, vol. III, chap. 75.</ref>}}

An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine:
:Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
:A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
:Q. How prove you that?
:A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.<ref>Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine. p. 58.</ref>

The Augsburg Confession:
:They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.<ref>Art. 28. Augsburg Confession.</ref>

A Doctrinal Catechism,
:Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
:A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.<ref>Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), A Doctrinal Catechism. p. 174.</ref>

Catholic Christian:
:Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
:A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath.<ref>The Catholic Christian Instructed in the Sacraments, Sacrifices, Ceremonies, and Observances of the Church By Way of Question and Answer, RT Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 204.</ref>

The Catechism of the Council of Trent:
:The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday!<ref>Catechism of the Council of Trent. p. 402, second revised edition (English), 1937. (First published in 1566)</ref>

===New moon===
{{See also|New moon}}
The new moon, occurring every 29 or 30 days, is an important separately sanctioned occasion in Judaism and some other faiths. It is not widely regarded as Sabbath, but some [[Hebrew Roots|messianic]] and [[Pentecostal]] churches,{{cn|date=September 2018}} keep the day of the new moon as Sabbath or rest day, from evening to evening. New-moon services can last all day.

Some modern sects who are Sabbath keepers have suggested a Sabbath based on the New Moon{{cn|date=September 2018}} citing [https://biblehub.com/psalms/104-19.htm Psalm 104:19] and [https://biblehub.com/genesis/1-14.htm Genesis 1:14] as a key [[prooftext]]s. Observers recognize the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, and 29th days of the month of the Hebrew Calendar as Sabbath days which should be observed.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.worldslastchance.com/wlc-challenge.html|title=The WLC Sabbath Challenge|website=Bible Prophecy {{!}} Online Bible Studies {{!}} Videos {{!}} WLC|access-date=2018-09-04}}</ref> They reject the 7 day week as non-biblical.{{cn|date=September 2018}} The Lunar Sabbath theory is rejected by most Sabbatarian groups and Judaism as false and misleading.

===Day of the Vow===
{{Main article|Day of the Vow}}
Day of the Vow or [[Dingane]]'s Day ([[Afrikaans language|Afrikaans]] ''Geloftedag'' or ''Dingaansdag'', December 16) was the name of a religious public holiday in [[South Africa]] commemorating a famous [[Boer]] victory over the [[Zulu people|Zulu]]. Celebrated as annual Sabbath (a holy day of thanksgiving) since 1838, it was renamed [[Day of Reconciliation]] in 1994. The anniversary and its commemoration are intimately connected with various streams of [[Afrikaner]] and South African nationalism.

===Millennial Sabbath===
{{Main article|Millennial Day Theory}}
Since [[Hippolytus of Rome]] in the early third century, Christians have often considered that some thousand-year Sabbath, expected to begin six thousand years after Creation, might be identical with the [[millennialism|millennium]] described in the [[Book of Revelation]]. This view was also popular among 19th- and 20th-century [[dispensationalism|dispensational]] [[premillennialist]]s. The term "Sabbatism" or "Sabbatizing" (Greek ''Sabbatismos''), which generically means any literal or spiritual Sabbath-keeping, has also been taken in {{Bibleverse||Hebrews|4:9|KJV}} to have special reference to this definition.

===Spiritual Sabbath===
As another minority view, some modern Christians uphold Sabbath principles but do not limit observance to either Saturday or Sunday, instead advocating rest on any one chosen day of the week as following the spirit of Sabbath, or advocating Sabbath as instead a symbolic metaphor for rest in Christ. These look upon Sabbath as a principle to be observed in spirit rather than in letter, regarding the rest offered in [[Jesus]] as the only New Testament admonishment containing the root word of "Sabbath" ({{Bibleverse||Matthew|11:28|KJV}}) and sometimes as a more permanent rest than a day could fulfill ({{Bibleverse||Hebrews|4:9|KJV}}).

===Latter Day Saint Movement===
In 1831, [[Joseph Smith]] published a revelation commanding his related movement, the formative [[Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints)|Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]], to go to the house of prayer, offer up their sacraments, rest from their labors, and pay their devotions on the Lord's day (D&C 59:9–12).
In a revelation given to founder [[Joseph Smith]] in 1831, the Lord commanded: {{quote|That thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day; for verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High.|D&C 59:9–10<ref>[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/59.9-11?lang=eng The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]}}</ref>}}

Mormons believe this means performing no labor that would keep them from giving their full attention to spiritual matters (Ex. 20:10). LDS prophets have described this as meaning they should not shop, hunt, fish, attend sports events, or participate in similar activities on that day.{{Citation needed|date=September 2019}} Elder [[Spencer W. Kimball]] wrote in his ''[[The Miracle of Forgiveness]]'' that mere idle lounging on the Sabbath does not keep the day holy, and that it calls for constructive thoughts and acts.<ref>''[[The Miracle of Forgiveness]]'', pp. 96–97</ref>

Mormons are encouraged to prepare their meals with "singleness of heart" on the Sabbath <ref>[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/59?lang=eng LDS.org D&C 59:13]</ref>(D&C 59:13) and believe the day is only for righteous activities (Is. 58:13.) In most areas of the world, Mormons worship on Sunday.<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20110715043511/http://lds.org/study/topics/sabbath?lang=eng LDS.org - Study by Topic - Sabbath]</ref>

In harmony with this revelation, members of the LDS church attend [[sacrament meeting]] each week. Other Sabbath-day activities may include: praying, meditating, studying the scriptures and the teachings of latter-day prophets, writing letters to family members and friends, reading wholesome material, visiting the sick and distressed, and attending other Church meetings.<ref>True to the Faith, p. 146 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/36863_eng.pdf{{full citation needed|date=February 2017}}</ref>

==Islam==
{{Main article|Jumu'ah}}
{{See also|Islamic calendar}}
The [[Quran]] acknowledges a six-part Creation period (32:4, 50:38) and the [[Biblical Sabbath]] as the seventh-day (''yaum as-Sabt'': 2:65, 4:47, 154, 7:163, 16:124), but [[Allah]]'s mounting the throne after Creation is taken in contradistinction to [[Elohim]]'s concluding and resting from his labors, and so Muslims replace Sabbath rest with ''jumu'ah'' ([[Arabic]] جمعة ). Also known as "Friday prayer", ''jumu'ah'' is a congregational prayer (''[[salat]]'') held every Friday (the Day of Assembly), just after midday, in place of the otherwise daily ''[[dhuhr]]'' prayer; it commemorates the [[Islamic view of Adam|creation of Adam]] on the sixth day, as a loving gathering of Adam's sons. The Quran states: "When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday, hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business: That is best for you if ye but knew" (62:9). The next verse ("When the prayer is ended, then disperse in the land ...") leads many Muslims not to consider Friday a rest day, as in [[Indonesia]], which regards the seventh-day Sabbath as unchanged; but many Muslim countries, such as [[Saudi Arabia]], the [[United Arab Emirates]] and [[Bangladesh]], do consider Friday a nonwork day, a holiday or a weekend; and other Muslim countries, like [[Pakistan]], count it as half a rest day (after the Friday prayer is over). ''Jumu'ah'' attendance is strictly incumbent upon all free adult males who are legal residents of the locality.

==Other religious traditions==
===Seven-day week===
{{Main article|Seven-day week}}
By [[synecdoche]] (naming the whole for a part), in Jewish sources by the time of the [[Septuagint]], the term "Sabbath" ([[Greek language|Greek]] ''Sabbaton'', Strong's ''4521'') also came to mean an entire "[[se'nnight]]" or seven-day week, the interval between two weekly Sabbaths. [[Jesus]]'s [[parable]] of the [[Pharisee and the Publican]] ({{Bibleverse||Luke|18:9–14|KJV}}) describes the [[Pharisee]] as fasting "twice a week" ([[Greek language|Greek]] ''dis tou sabbatou'', literally, "Twice of the Sabbath").

===High Sabbaths===
{{Main article|High Sabbaths}}
"High Sabbaths" are observed by Jews and some Christians. Seven annual Biblical festivals, called ''miqra'' ("called assembly") in Hebrew and "High Sabbath" in English and serving as supplemental testimonies to Sabbath, are specified in the books of [[Book of Exodus|Exodus]] and [[Deuteronomy]]; they do not necessarily fall on weekly Sabbath. Three occur in spring: the first and seventh days of [[Pesach]] ([[Passover (Christian holiday)|Passover]]), and [[Shavuot]] ([[Pentecost]]). Four occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called ''Shabbaton'': [[Rosh Hashanah]] ([[Feast of Trumpets (Christian holiday)|Trumpets]]); [[Yom Kippur]], "Sabbath of Sabbaths" ([[Christian observances of Yom Kippur|Atonement]]); and the first and eighth days of [[Sukkoth]] ([[Christian observances of Jewish holidays#Feast of Tabernacles|Tabernacles]]). "High Sabbaths" is also often a synonym of "[[High Holy Days]]", viz., Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.

===Shmita ===
''[[Shmita]]'' ({{lang-he|שמטה}}, Strong's 8059 as ''shemittah'', literally "release"), also called sabbatical year, is the seventh (שביעי, Strong's 7637 as ''shebiy'iy'') year of the seven-year agricultural cycle mandated by [[Torah]] for the [[Land of Israel]], relatively little observed in Biblical tradition, but still observed in contemporary [[Judaism]]. During ''Shmita'', the land is left to lie [[fallow]] and all agricultural activity, including plowing, planting, pruning and harvesting, is forbidden by Torah and [[halakha|Jewish law]]. By tradition, other cultivation techniques (such as watering, fertilizing, weeding, spraying, trimming and mowing) may be performed as preventive measures only, not to improve the growth of trees or plants; additionally, whatever fruits grow of their own accord during that year are deemed ''hefker'' (ownerless), not for the landowner but for the poor, the stranger, and the beasts of the field; these fruits may be picked by anyone. A variety of laws also apply to the sale, consumption and disposal of ''Shmita'' produce. When the year ended, all debts, except those of foreigners, were to be remitted ({{Bibleverse||Deuteronomy|15:1–11|KJV}}); in similar fashion, Torah requires a slave who had worked for six years to go free in the seventh year. [[Leviticus]] 25 promises bountiful harvests to those who observe ''Shmita'', and describes its observance as a test of religious faith. The term ''Shmita'' is translated "release" five times in the [[Book of Deuteronomy]] (from the root שמט, ''shamat'', "''desist'', ''remit''", 8058).

===Babylonian rest days===
{{Main article|Babylonian calendar#Days|Shappatum}}
Counting from the [[new moon]], the Babylonians celebrated the 7th, 14th, 21st, and 28th as "holy-days", also called "evil days" (meaning "unsuitable" for prohibited activities). On these days officials were prohibited from various activities and common men were forbidden to "make a wish", and at least the 28th was known as a "rest-day". On each of them, offerings were made to a different god and goddess. Tablets from the 6th-century BCE reigns of [[Cyrus the Great]] and [[Cambyses]] indicate these dates were sometimes approximate. The [[lunation]] of 29 or 30 days basically contained three [[seven-day week]]s, and a final week of nine or ten days inclusive, breaking the continuous seven-day cycle. The Babylonians additionally celebrated the 19th as a special "evil day", the "day of anger", because it was roughly the 49th day of the (preceding) month, completing a "week of weeks", also with sacrifices and prohibitions. Difficulties with [[Friedrich Delitzsch]]'s [[origin theory]] connecting Hebrew ''[[Shabbat]]'' with the Babylonian [[lunar cycle]] include reconciling the differences between an unbroken week and a lunar week, and explaining the absence of texts naming the lunar week as ''Shabbat'' in any language. Reconstruction of a broken tablet seems to define the rarely attested Babylonian [[Akkadian Empire|Akkadian]] word ''Sapattum'' or ''Sabattum'' as the [[full moon]]: this word is cognate or merged with Hebrew ''Shabbat'', but is monthly rather than weekly. It is regarded as a form of [[Sumer]]ian ''sa-bat'' ("mid-rest"), attested in [[Akkadian language|Akkadian]] as ''um nuh libbi'' ("day of mid-repose"). This conclusion is a contextual restoration of the damaged [[Enûma Eliš]] [[creation mythos]], which is read as: "[Sa]pattu shalt thou then encounter, mid[month]ly."

The [[pentecontad calendar]], thought to be of [[Amorite]] origin, includes a period known to [[Babylonia]]ns as ''Shappatum''. The year is broken down into seven periods of fifty days (made up of seven weeks of seven days, containing seven weekly Sabbaths, and an extra fiftieth day, known as the ''atzeret''), plus an annual supplement of fifteen or sixteen days, called ''Shappatum'', the period of harvest time at the end of each year. Identified and reconstructed by Hildegaard and Julius Lewy in the 1940s, the calendar's use dates back to at least the 3rd millennium BCE in Western [[Mesopotamia]] and surrounding areas; it was used by the [[Canaan]]ite tribes, thought by some to have been used by the [[Israelite]]s prior to [[King Solomon]], and related to the [[liturgical]] calendar of the [[Essene]]s at [[Qumran]]. Used well into the modern age, forms of it have been found in [[Nestorianism]] and among the [[Palestinian people|Palestinian]] ''[[fellaheen]]''. Julius Morgenstern believed that the calendar of the [[Jubilees]] had ancient origins as a somewhat modified survival of the pentecontad calendar.

===Zoroastrianism===
{{See also|Zoroastrian festivals}}
In relating to the seventh and other days of the month, the [[Zoroastrian calendar]] contributed to the [[Jewish calendar]].<ref>{{cite book|last1=Haas|first1=W.S.|title=Iran|url=https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.226820|date=1946|publisher=Columbia University Press|location=New York}}</ref> A number of writings by early Christians in the [[New Testament apocrypha]] ([[Zostrianos]], [[Marsenes]] and [[Allogenes]]) describe God's revelation received by a man named [[Zostrianos]]. Further evidence of Zoroastrian influence on Judaic tradition is demonstrated through [[Nehemiah]], the Priest in the [[Book of Nehemiah]], a book of the [[Neviim]] contained in the [[Tanakh]]. With the support and protection of [[Artaxerxes I of Persia]] (445/444 BCE), Nehemiah purified the Temple and the priests and Levites and enforced the observance of the law of Moses.<ref>{{cite book|last1=Allbright|first1=William|title=The Biblical Period from Abraham to Ezra: An Historical Survey|date=1963|publisher=Harpercollins College Div}}</ref>
{{See also|Second Temple}}

For exemplar, the observance of [[Passover]] coincides with [[Nowruz]], the Zoroastrian New Year which marks the first day of spring or vernal [[Equinox]].<ref>{{cite book|last1=Haas|first1=W.S.|title=Iran|url=https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.226820|date=1946|publisher=Columbia University Press|location=New York}}</ref>

===Buddhist rest day===
{{Main article|Uposatha}}
The ''Uposatha'' has been observed since [[Gautama Buddha]]'s time (500 BCE), and is still being kept today in [[Theravada Buddhist]] countries. It occurs every seven or eight days, in accordance with the four phases of the moon. Buddha taught that ''Uposatha'' is for "the cleansing of the defiled mind", resulting in inner calm and joy. On this day, [[Śrāvaka|disciples]] and [[monk]]s intensify their practice, deepen their knowledge, and express communal commitment through millennia-old acts of lay-monastic reciprocity.

{{details|Wan Phra}}
[[Thai Chinese]] likewise observe their Sabbaths and [[traditional Chinese holidays]] according to lunar phases, but not on exactly the same days as ''Uposatha''. These Sabbaths cycle through the month with respect to the [[Thai solar calendar]], so common Thai calendars incorporate Thai and [[Chinese calendar]] lunar dates, as well as ''Uposatha'' dates, for [[religion|religious]] purposes.

===Cherokee rest days===
The first day of the [[new moon]], beginning at sunrise, is a [[holiday]] of [[leisure|quiet reflection]] and [[prayer]] among the [[Cherokee]]. Monthly [[fasting]] is encouraged, for up to four days. Work, cooking, sex and childbirth were also prohibited during the empty moon days, called "un-time" or "non-days"; childbirth during these days was considered unlucky. The Cherokee [[new year]], the "great new moon" or "Hunting Moon", is the first new moon in [[autumn]], after the setting of the [[Pleiades]] star cluster and around the time of the [[Leonids]] meteoric shower.

===Sabbath as Saturday===
{{details|Saturday}}
One [[folk tradition]] in English is the widespread use of "Sabbath" as a synonym of midnight-to-midnight "Saturday" (literally, [[Saturn]]'s day in at least a dozen languages): this is a simplification of the use of "Sabbath" in other religious contexts, where the two do not coincide. (Using midnight instead of sundown as delimiter dates back to the [[Roman Empire]].) In over thirty other languages, the [[week-day names|common name]] for this day in the [[seven-day week]] is a cognate of "Sabbath". "[[Sabbatini]]", originally "Sabbadini", often "Sabatini", etc., is a very frequent Italian name form ("[[Christodoulos Sabbatos|Sabbatos]]" is the Greek form), indicating a family whose ancestor was born on Saturday, Italian ''sabato''; "Domenico" indicated birth on Sunday. In [[vampire hunter]] lore, people born on Saturday were specially designated as ''sabbatianoí'' in [[Greek language|Greek]] and ''sâbotnichavi'' in [[Bulgarian language|Bulgarian]] (rendered in English as "Sabbatarians"). It was also believed in the [[Balkans]] that someone born on a Saturday could see a [[vampire]] when it was otherwise invisible.

===Wicca===
{{See also|Sabbat|Esbat|Witches' Sabbath}}
The annual cycle of the Earth's seasons is called the Wheel of the Year in [[Wicca]] and [[neopagan]]ism. Eight [[sabbat]]s (occasionally "sabbaths", or "Sun sabbats") are spaced at approximately even intervals throughout the year. [[Samhain]], which coincides with [[Halloween]], is considered the first sabbat of the year.

An esbat is a ritual observance of the [[full moon]] in Wicca and neopaganism. Some groups extend the esbat to include the dark moon and the first and last quarters. "Esbat" and "sabbat" are distinct and are probably not [[cognate]] terms, although an esbat is also called "moon sabbat".

European records from the [[Middle Ages]] to the 17th century or later also place Witches' Sabbaths on similar dates to sabbats in modern Wicca, but with some disagreement; medieval reports of sabbat activity are generally not firsthand and may be imaginative, but many persons were accused of, or tried for, taking part in sabbats.

===Unification Church===
{{See also|Ahn Shi Il}}
The [[Unification Church]] has a regular day of worship on Sunday, but every eight days Unificationists celebrate the day of Ahn Shi Il, considered as Sabbath but cycling among the weekdays of the Gregorian calendar. The [[Family Pledge]], formerly recited at 5:00 a.m. on Sundays, was moved to Ahn Shi Il in 1994 and includes eight verses containing the phrase "by centering on true love".

===Baháʼí Faith===
{{See also|Baháʼí calendar}}

The day of rest in the Baháʼí Faith is Friday.<ref>{{cite book | editor-last = Hornby|editor-first=Helen | year = 1983 | title = Lights of Guidance: A Baháʼí Reference File | publisher = Baháʼí Publishing Trust | location = [[New Delhi, India]] | isbn = 978-81-85091-46-4 | url = http://bahai-library.com/hornby_lights_guidance&chapter=2#n372 | page = 109 | quote = III. Baháʼí: E. Miscellaneous Subjects: 372. Friday is Day of Rest in Baháʼí Calendar. | accessdate = 2009-03-15}}</ref>

==Secular traditions==
{{See also|Secular day of rest|Weekend}}
Secular use of "Sabbath" for "rest day", while it usually refers to the same period of time (Sunday) as the majority Christian use of "Sabbath", is often stated in [[North America]] to refer to different purposes for the rest day than those of [[Christendom]]. In ''[[McGowan v. Maryland]]'' (1961), the [[Supreme Court of the United States]] held that contemporary [[Maryland]] [[blue law]]s (typically, Sunday rest laws) were intended to promote the secular values of "health, safety, recreation, and general well-being" through a common day of rest, and that this day coinciding with majority Christian Sabbath neither reduces its effectiveness for secular purposes nor prevents adherents of other religions from observing their own holy days. [[Massachusetts]], uncharacteristically, does not specify the weekday in its "Day of Rest" statute, providing only that one day off from work is required every week; an unspecified weekly day off is a very widespread business production cycle. The [[Supreme Court of Canada]], in ''[[R. v. Big M Drug Mart Ltd.]]'' (1985) and ''[[R. v. Edwards Books and Art Ltd.]]'' (1986), found some blue laws invalid for having no legitimate secular purpose, but others valid because they had no religious purpose.

The weekend is that period of the week set aside by custom or law for rest from labor. In many countries it is Saturday and Sunday and often includes Friday night. This five-day workweek arose in [[United States|America]] when [[labor union]]s attempted to accommodate Jewish Sabbath, beginning at a [[New England]] [[cotton mill]] and also instituted by [[Henry Ford]] in 1926; it became standard in America by about 1940 and spread among English-speaking and European countries to become the international workweek. [[China]] adopted it in 1995 and [[Hong Kong]] by 2006. [[India]] and some other countries follow both the international workweek and a more traditional Saturday half-workday and Sunday weekend. While [[Indonesia]] and [[Lebanon]] have the international workweek, most Muslim countries count Friday as the weekend, alone or with Thursday (all or half) or Saturday. Some universities permit a three-day weekend from Friday to Sunday. The weekend in [[Israel]], [[Nepal]], and parts of [[Malaysia]], is Friday (all or half) and Saturday. Only the one-day customary or legal weekends are usually called "Sabbath".

===State-mandated rest days ===
{{See also|Blank day|Chinese week|Décadi|Soviet week}}
State-mandated rest days are widespread. Laws of the [[Han Dynasty]] (206 BCE – 220 CE) required imperial officials to rest on every ''mu'' (every fifth day), within a ten-day Chinese week. The rest day was changed to ''huan'' or ''xún'' (every tenth day) in the [[Tang Dynasty]] (618–907).

The [[calendar reform|reform calendar]] of the [[French Revolution]] was used from 1793 to 1805. It contained twelve months of three ten-day weeks; the five or six extra days needed to approximate the [[tropical year]] were placed after the months at the end of each year. The tenth day of each week, ''décadi'', replaced Sunday as the day of rest and festivity in France.

From 1929 to 1931, the [[Soviet Union]] mandated a [[Soviet calendar|five-day week]], with each day designated by color as a state rest day for a different 20% of the workforce; families usually did not share rest days. Three weeks a year were six or seven days, because interrupted by holidays. From 1931 to 1940, the Soviets mandated a six-day week, with state rest days for all upon the 6th, 12th, 18th, 24th, and 30th of each [[Gregorian month]], as well as upon March 1. This also necessitated varying weeks of five to seven days over the year.

Among many calendar reform proposals that eliminate the constant [[seven-day week]] in exchange for simplified calculation of calendrical data like [[weekday names]] for given dates, some retain Sabbatical influences. The [[Hermetic Lunar Week Calendar]] uses [[moon phases]], resulting in weeks of six to nine days. The [[International Fixed Calendar]] and [[World Calendar]] both consist of 364-day years containing exactly 52 weeks (each starting on a day designated as Sunday), with an additional one or two [[intercalation (timekeeping)|intercalary]] "blank" days not designated as part of any week (Year Day and Leap Day in the International Fixed Calendar; Worldsday and Leapyear Day in the World Calendar). Reform supporters sought to accommodate Sabbatical observance by retaining the modified week and designating the intercalary days as additional Sabbaths or [[holidays]]; however, religious leaders held that such days disrupt the traditional seven-day weekly cycle. This unresolved issue contributed to the cessation of reform activities in the 1930s (International Fixed Calendar) and again in 1955 (World Calendar), though supporters of both proposals remain.

===Subbotnik===
The [[subbotnik]] is a weekly day of volunteer work on Saturday in [[Russia]], other (former) [[Republics of the Soviet Union|Soviet republic]]s, the [[Eastern Bloc]], and the [[German Democratic Republic]], sporadically observed since 1919. The ''voskresnik'' is a related volunteer workday on Sunday. They focus on community service work; "[[Lenin]]'s Subbotnik" was also observed annually around his birthday.

===Sabbatical===
From the biblical sabbatical year came the modern concept of a [[sabbatical]], a prolonged, often one-year, hiatus in the career of an individual (not usually tied to a seven-year period). Such a period is often taken in order to fulfill some goal such as writing a book or traveling extensively for research. Some universities and other institutional employers of scientists, physicians, or academics offer paid sabbatical as an employee benefit, called "sabbatical leave"; some companies offer unpaid sabbatical for people wanting to take career breaks.

== References ==
{{Portal|Judaism|Christianity|Islam}}
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* {{Wiktionary-inline|Sabbath}}
* {{wikiquote-inline}}
* {{Cite NSRW|short=x|wstitle=Sabbath}}

{{Set index article}}

[[Category:Sabbath| ]]
[[Category:Religious holidays]]
[[Category:Working time]]

Fornication

2018-09-09T17:44:24Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Other faiths */ adding Baha'i section

{{Distinguish|Formication}}
{{Use dmy dates|date=August 2017}}
[[File:Ingres - Paolo and Francesca.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Francesca da Rimini#In Inferno|Paolo and Francesca]], whom [[Dante Alighieri|Dante]]'s [[Inferno (Dante)|''Inferno'']] describes as [[damnation|damned]] for fornication. ([[Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres]], 1819)]]

'''Fornication''' is generally consensual [[sexual intercourse]] between two people not married to each other.<ref>{{cite web|title=Fornication|url=http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=fornication|work=Student Dictionary|publisher=[[Merriam-Webster]]|accessdate=15 February 2013|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131202225430/http://www.wordcentral.com/cgi-bin/student?book=Student&va=fornication|archivedate=2 December 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref><ref name="Dictionaries on fornication">{{cite web |title=Fornication|accessdate = 25 November 2013|publisher=[[TheFreeDictionary.com]]|url =http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fornication}}</ref> When one of the partners to consensual sexual intercourse is a married person, it may be described as [[adultery]].

For many people, the term carries an overtone of moral or religious disapproval, but the significance of sexual acts to which the term is applied varies between religions, societies and cultures. In modern usage, the term is often replaced with a more [[Value judgment|judgment]]-neutral term like ''[[extramarital sex]]''.

== Etymology and usage ==
In the original [[Greek language|Greek]] version of the New Testament, the Greek term ''porneia'' (πορνεία) (or its variants) is used 25 times.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4202.htm|title=Strong's Greek: 4202. πορνεία (porneia) – 25 Occurrences|website=biblehub.com|access-date=2017-07-16|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20170712030625/http://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4202.htm|archivedate=12 July 2017|df=dmy-all}}</ref> ''Porneia'' meant prostitution, a usage still in use today.<ref>{{Cite journal|date=30 April 2017|title=Πορνεία|url=https://el.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%CE%A0%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%BD%CE%B5%CE%AF%CE%B1&oldid=6378124|journal=Βικιπαίδεια|language=el}}</ref>

In the late 4th century, the [[Vulgate|Latin Vulgate]], a Latin translation of the Greek texts, translated the term as fornicati, fornicatus, fornicata, and fornicatae. In 1611 [[King James Version]], the first English translation of the Christian Bible<ref>See [[Matthew 5:32]] for usage of the word in English Bibles.</ref> used the term fornication. Other translations have used terms such as ''whoredom'', ''[[sexual immorality]]'' (e.g., {{bibleverse||Matthew|19:9|ESV}}) or simply ''immorality''.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/591-the-english-standard-version |title=The English Standard Version |publisher=Christian Courier |accessdate=2 August 2013 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131204075220/https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/591-the-english-standard-version |archivedate=4 December 2013 |df=dmy-all }}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/porneia.html |title=The Greek Lexicon |publisher=BibleStudyTools.com |accessdate=4 February 2014 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140221223716/http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/porneia.html |archivedate=21 February 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

In Latin, the term ''fornix'' means arch or [[Vault (architecture)|vault]]. [[Prostitution in ancient Rome|In Ancient Rome, prostitutes]] waited for their customers out of the rain under vaulted ceilings,<ref>{{cite book |last=O'Gorman|first=James F.|title=ABC of Architecture|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=rzc6vh680FMC&pg=PA106|accessdate=15 February 2013|year=1998|publisher=U of Pennsylvania P|isbn=978-0-8122-1631-8|pages=106–107}}</ref> and ''fornix'' became a euphemism for brothels, and the Latin verb ''fornicare'' referred to a man visiting a brothel.<ref>{{cite book |title=Ancient Rome in So Many Words|author=Christopher Francese|page=146|publisher=Hippocrene Books|year=2007|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=gl5T47CvuDsC}}</ref><ref>{{cite book |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=IrcZEZ1bOJsC|title=The Merriam-Webster New Book of Word Histories|year=1991|publisher=Merriam-Webster|page=182}}</ref><ref>{{cite book |chapter=Fornix, n. |title=[[Oxford English Dictionary]] |publisher=Oxford University Press |edition=3rd |year=2001 |isbn= }}</ref> The first recorded use in English is in the ''[[Cursor Mundi]]'', c. 1300; the [[Oxford English Dictionary]] (OED) records a figurative use as well: "The forsaking of God for idols".<ref>{{cite book |chapter=Fornication, n.1 |title=[[Oxford English Dictionary]] |publisher=Oxford University Press |edition=3rd |year=2001 |isbn= }}</ref> ''Fornicated'' as an adjective is still used in botany, meaning "arched" or "bending over" (as in a leaf). [[John Milton]] plays on the double meaning of the word in ''[[The Reason of Church-Government Urged against Prelaty]]'' (1642): "[She] gives up her body to a mercenary whordome under those ''fornicated [ar]ches'' which she cals Gods house."<ref>{{cite book |chapter=Fornicated, adj. |title=[[Oxford English Dictionary]] |publisher=Oxford University Press |edition=3rd |year=2001 |isbn= }}</ref>

== Christian views ==
{{See also|Extramarital sex#Religions|Adultery#Abrahamic |Extramarital sex#Christianity|Adultery#Christianity}}

=== Generalities ===
The [[Pauline epistles]] contain multiple condemnations of various forms of extramarital sex. The [[First Epistle to the Corinthians]] states "Flee from sexual immorality" and lists adulterers and "those who are sexually immoral"/practicing-fornicators in a list of "wrongdoers who... will not inherit the kingdom of God". {{Bibleref2c|1Cor|6:9|NIV|1 Corinthians 6:9}}{{Bibleref2c|1Co|6:18|NIV|1 Cor 6:18}} First Corinthians and the [[Epistle to the Galatians]] also address ''fornication''.{{Bibleref2c|Galatians|5:19}}{{Bibleref2c|1Cor|7:2|NIV|1 Corinthians 7:2}} The ''Apostolic Decree'' of the [[Council of Jerusalem]] also includes a prohibition of ''fornication''.

Throughout history, most theologians have argued that any and all forms of premarital sex are immoral. An historical example is the medieval English monastic, [[John Baconthorpe]].<ref>{{cite journal |title=Premarital Sex: the Theological Argument from Peter Lombard to Durand |author=John F. Dedek |journal=[[Theological Studies (journal)|Theological Studies]] |volume=41 |issue=4 |date=December 1980 |pages=643–667 |url=http://cdn.theologicalstudies.net/41/41.4/41.4.1.pdf |doi=10.1177/004056398004100401 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160204221155/http://cdn.theologicalstudies.net/41/41.4/41.4.1.pdf |archivedate=4 February 2016 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> A more contemporary example is the modern-day theologian Lee Gatiss who argues that premarital sex is immoral based on scripture. He states that, from a Biblical perspective, "physical union should not take place outside a "one flesh" (i.e. marriage) union... In [1 Corinthians] chapter 7 Paul addresses the situation of two unmarried Christians who are burning with passion (7:8–9) who should either exercise self-control or be permitted to marry (cf. verses 36–38). The underlying assumptions are the same as those in Deuteronomy 22."<ref name="theologian.org.uk">{{cite web |title=The Issue of Pre-Marital Sex |author=Lee Gatiss |publisher=The Theologian |year=2005 |url=http://www.theologian.org.uk/pastoralia/premartialsex.html |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150324021344/http://www.theologian.org.uk/pastoralia/premartialsex.html |archivedate=24 March 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

However, a minority of theologians have argued in more recent times that premarital sex may not be immoral in some limited circumstances. An example is John Witte, who argues that the Bible itself is silent on the issue of consensual, premarital sex between an engaged couple.<ref name="books.google">{{cite book |url=https://books.google.com/?id=IlWH2jHaj1YC&pg=PA416&lpg=PA416&dq=calvin+premarital+sex#v=onepage&q=calvin%20premarital%20sex&f=false|title=Sex, Marriage, and Family in John Calvin's Geneva: Courtship, Engagement, and Marriage|isbn=978-0-8028-4803-1|author1=Witte|first1=John|year=2005 |page=416}}</ref> In other words, Witte claims that the Bible excludes premarital sex from its list of unlawful sexual relations (Leviticus 18) though Leviticus 18 is not the only such list, nor does Leviticus 18 claim to be exhaustive being devoted largely to forms of incest.

Some of the debate arises from the question of which theological approach is being applied. A [[Deontological ethics|deontological]] view of sex interprets porneia, aselgeia and akatharsia in terms of whether the couple are married or non-married. What makes sex moral or immoral is the context of marriage. By contrast, a [[Teleology|teleological]] view interprets porneia, aselgeia and akatharsia in terms of the quality of the relationship (how well it reflects God's glory and Christian notions of a committed, virtuous relationship.)<ref>{{cite web |url=http://web.campbell.edu/faculty/vandergriffk/ethics_sexuality.html |title=Archived copy |accessdate=2015-03-09 |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://archive.is/20150311120239/http://web.campbell.edu/faculty/vandergriffk/ethics_sexuality.html |archivedate=11 March 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

The debate also turns on the definition of the two Greek words ''moicheia'' (μοιχεία, adultery) and ''porneia'' ([[:el:πορνεία]], with meaning of prostitution, from which the word pornography is derived). The first word is restricted to contexts involving sexual betrayal of a spouse; however, the second word is used as a generic term for illegitimate sexual activity, although many scholars hold that the [[Septuagint]] uses "porneia" to refer specifically to male [[temple prostitution]].{{citation needed|date=February 2018}} Elsewhere in First Corinthians, [[incest]], homosexual intercourse (according to some interpretations)<ref>''arsenokoitēs'' (masc. noun of fem. 1st declension), literally a man who shares a bed with other men (see [[LSJ]] and [[BDAG]]).</ref> and prostitution are all explicitly forbidden by name.

Paul is preaching about activities based on sexual prohibitions laid out in [[Leviticus]] in the context of achieving holiness. One theory therefore suggests that it is these behaviours, and only these, that are intended by Paul's prohibition in chapter seven.<ref>{{cite web|last=Koltun-Fromm|first=Naomi|title=Hermeneutics of Holiness: Syriac- Christian and Rabbinic Notions of Holy Community and Sexuality|url=http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/symposiums/11th/papers/FrommHoliness.doc|accessdate=3 August 2013|format=.doc|date=April 2006|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130525215607/http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/symposiums/11th/papers/FrommHoliness.doc|archivedate=25 May 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> However, most mainstream Christian sources believe that porneia encompasses all forms of premarital sex. For instance, in defining ''porneia''/fornication, Kittel and Friedrich's 1977 ''Theological Dictionary of the New Testament'' states that "The NT is characterized by an unconditional repudiation of all extra-marital and unnatural intercourse".<ref>Kittel, G (ed): ''Theological Dictionary of the New Testament'', Volume VI, pages 579–95</ref> Likewise, Friberg's ''Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament'' defines ''porneia'' as being "generally, every kind of extramarital, unlawful or unnatural sexual intercourse".<ref>Friberg, T: ''Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament''</ref>{{page needed|date=May 2016}}

Lee Gatiss also argues that ''porneia'' encompasses all forms of premarital sex. He states that "the word 'fornication' has gone out of fashion and is not in common use to describe non-marital sex. However, it is an excellent translation for porneia, which basically referred to any kind of sex outside of marriage ... This has been contested ... but the overwhelming weight of scholarship and all the available evidence from the ancient world points firmly in this direction. "Flee sexual immorality (porneia) and pursue self-control" (cf. 1 Thess 4:1–8) was the straightforward message to Christians in a sex-crazed world."<ref name="theologian.org.uk" />

=== Jesus and the early Church ===
Attitudes towards marriage and sexuality at the time of Jesus stemmed from a blend of Roman and Jewish ideas. For instance, during the lifetime of Jesus, there was a strong social disapproval among Romans of [[polygamy]]. This made its way into Judaism and early Christianity, despite the Old Testament portraying examples of this behaviour among patriarchs and kings.<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk">{{cite web |title=The Church in Wales and Same-Sex Partnerships |date=March 2014 |publisher=The Standing Doctrinal Commission of the Church in Wales |url=http://cinw.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SameSexPartnership_DocComm-English.doc |accessdate=30 September 2014 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141006080935/http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/SameSexPartnership_DocComm-English.doc |archivedate=6 October 2014 }}</ref>

Jewish marriage in the time of Jesus was a two-stage process. First, there was a betrothal in which the man claimed the woman to be his only bride. Secondly, there was the marriage contract that specified what the bride and groom's families would give the couple and what the bride would obtain if she divorced. "At the time of Jesus, and in rural areas like Galilee, a young couple might well cohabit before the contract was signed 'in order to get acquainted'. The betrothal was held to be enough of a marriage that a divorce would be needed if the couple split up between betrothal and contract."<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/>

New Testament scholar [[N. T. Wright]] asserts that Paul absolutely forbade fornication, irrespective of a new Christian's former cultural practices. Wright notes "If a Corinthian were to say, 'Because I'm a Corinthian, I have always had a string of girl-friends I sleep with, that's part of our culture,' Paul would respond, 'Not now you're a Christian you don't.'... When someone disagreed with Paul's clear rules on immorality or angry disputes, the matters he deals with in Colossians 3.5–10, he is... firm, as we see dramatically in 1 Corinthians 5 and 6. There is no place in the Christian fellowship for such practices and for such a person."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Communion_Koinonia.htm|title=Communion and Koinonia: Pauline Reflections on Tolerance and Boundaries|author=|date=|work=ntwrightpage.com|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20080913230259/http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Communion_Koinonia.htm|archivedate=13 September 2008|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The early Church's statements on marital affairs mainly concerned acceptable reasons for divorce and remarriage. Whilst Paul, in his epistles to early believers, emphasised that both celibacy and marriage were good forms of life, after his life the Church felt that celibacy was more virtuous and liberating. This focus came about because the early church was very ascetic, possibly due to the influence of Greek philosophical thought. The focus on celibacy meant that other issues relating to sexual morality for the non-celibate remained under-developed.<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/>

[[Augustine of Hippo]]'s views strongly influenced how later Christians thought about sex. Before becoming a Christian, he had taken a concubine in defiance of his (Christian) mother's anxious warning to him "not to commit fornication".<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.bartleby.com/7/1/2.html|title=The Second Book. Augustine, Saint. 1909–14. The Confessions of St. Augustine. The Harvard Classics.|author=|date=|work=bartleby.com|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20161216054532/http://www.bartleby.com/7/1/2.html|archivedate=16 December 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref> "Though sinful in acting out his erotic desires, Augustine gives himself some credit, writing that "the single desire that dominated my search for delight was simply to love and be loved.""<ref name="sparknotes.com">{{cite web|url=http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/confessionsaug/section2.rhtml|title=SparkNotes: Confessions: Book II|author=|date=|work=sparknotes.com|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160927065025/http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/confessionsaug/section2.rhtml|archivedate=27 September 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Reflecting much later, he believed that the problem was that his love had "no restraint imposed [on it] by the exchange of mind with mind." Hence, pure love was perverted by its misdirection toward lust whereas a Godly relationship should focus on a loving, rational partnership instead.<ref name="sparknotes.com"/>

In his later writings, Augustine was "deeply suspicious of sexual passion" and this has influenced the outlook of all the major Christian denominations down to the present day.<ref>{{cite news |title=Church told to rethink bar on sex before marriage |author=[[Ruth Gledhill]] |date=31 March 2003 |newspaper=The Times |url=http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article1908115.ece}}{{subscription required}}</ref> Augustine considered fornication to have two definitions: the first was "cleaving to a prostitute" and the second, broader and more precise one was "what men who do not have wives do with women who do not have husbands".<ref name="ReferenceB">{{cite web|url=https://books.google.com.au/books?id=GcVhAGpvTQ0C&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=augustine%20fornication&source=bl&ots=j7vsL4YEfB&sig=OaiBx9wwHZbO3niy6msNsnwNpt8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8tqqzyKvPAhVBQJQKHWasDeQQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=augustine%20fornication&f=false|title=Augustine Through the Ages: An Encyclopedia|first1=Allan|last1=Fitzgerald|first2=John C.|last2=Cavadini|date=1 January 1999|publisher=Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing|via=Google Books}}</ref> Augustine believed fornicators were sinful because they corrupted their own selves, their image of God and the temple of God.<ref name="ReferenceB"/>

=== Mainstream Protestantism ===

==== Lutheranism ====
According to Susan C. Karant-Nunn and Merry E. Wiesner-Hanks in their book, ''Luther on Women'', [[Martin Luther]] felt that "The sex act was of course sinful outside of marriage."<ref>{{cite book|title=Luther on Women|url=https://encrypted.google.com/books?id=BE8yAl6K0tQC&dq=luther+and+women&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=RHyuSr4gh7ow48rZ8g0&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=sex&f=false|author=Susan C. Karant-Nunn and Merry E. Wiesner-Hanks|accessdate=5 June 2014|page=11|year=2003|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-0-521-65884-3|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140607012309/https://encrypted.google.com/books?id=BE8yAl6K0tQC&dq=luther+and+women&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=RHyuSr4gh7ow48rZ8g0&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=sex&f=false|archivedate=7 June 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref> In his sermon on the [[Epistle to the Ephesians]] Chapter 5, Luther stated:

{{cquote|In naming uncleanness in addition to fornication, the reference is to all sensual affections in distinction from wedded love. They are too unsavory for him [Paul] to mention by name, though in Romans 1, 24 he finds it expedient to speak of them without disguise. However, also wedded love must be characterized by moderation among Christians.<ref>{{cite web |title=Third Sunday in Lent, Ephesians 5:1–9 Exhortation to Be Imitators of God |publisher=Lectionary Central |url=http://www.lectionarycentral.com/lent3/LutherEpistle.html |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160304035324/http://www.lectionarycentral.com/lent3/LutherEpistle.html |archivedate=4 March 2016 |df=dmy-all }} Reprinted from volume VII: 150–161 of ''The Sermons of Martin Luther'', published by Baker Book House (Grand Rapids, MI). Originally published in 1909 in English by Lutherans in All Lands Press (Minneapolis, MN), as ''The Precious and Sacred Writings of Martin Luther'', vol. 2.</ref>}}

On another occasion, Luther wrote, "I... pass over the good or evil which experience offers, and confine myself to such good as Scripture and truth ascribe to marriage. It is no slight boon that in wedlock fornication and unchastity are checked and eliminated. This in itself is so great a good that it alone should be enough to induce men to marry forthwith, and for many reasons... The first reason is that fornication destroys not only the soul but also body, property, honor, and family as well. For we see how a licentious and wicked life not only brings great disgrace but is also a spendthrift life, more costly than wedlock, and that illicit partners necessarily occasion greater suffering for one another than do married folk. Beyond that it consumes the body, corrupts flesh and blood, nature, and physical constitution. Through such a variety of evil consequences God takes a rigid position, as though he would actually drive people away from fornication and into marriage. However, few are thereby convinced or converted."<ref>Luther's Works volume 45:43</ref>

Exploring this matter in more depth when writing on 1 Thessalonians 4:3–5, Luther advises, "All young people should avoid casual sex and preserve their purity. They should resolve to strengthen themselves against lust and sexual passions by reading and meditating on a psalm or some other portion of God's Word... If your sexual appetites continually tempt you, be patient. Resist them as long as necessary, even if it takes more than a year. But above all, keep praying! If you feel that you can't stand it any longer, pray that God will give you a devout spouse with whom you can live in harmony and true love... I have known many people who, because of their crude and shameful fantasies, indulged their passion with unrestrained lust. Because of their insatiable desires, they abandoned self control, and lapsed into terrible immorality. In the end, they had to endure dreadful punishment. Blinded to the realities of married life, some of them took unsuitable mates and ended up in incompatible relationships. They got what they deserved. You must pray diligently and strive to resist the desires of your corrupt nature. Ask God to give you a Rebekah or Isaac instead of a Delilah or Samson-or someone even worse. Finding a devoted, loyal wife or husband isn’t a matter of good luck. It’s not the result of good judgment, as unbelievers think. Rather, a devout spouse is a gift from God."<ref>{{cite web|url=https://books.google.com.au/books?id=wpwHNEQ-O44C&pg=PT106&lpg=PT106&dq=luther%20crude%20and%20shameful%20fantasies%20indulged&source=bl&ots=1lY96K6n5b&sig=KIUYVFdTyq-xiqLJ3JmWYanMbqY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7xsXBis3PAhXENpQKHaz-CTEQ6AEIHzAB#v=onepage&q=luther%20crude%20and%20shameful%20fantasies%20indulged&f=false|title=Faith Alone: A Daily Devotional|first=Martin|last=Luther|date=26 May 2009|publisher=Zondervan|via=Google Books}}</ref>

Luther however, in contrast to his Roman Catholic opponents, believed that it was not the Church's business to define marriage law. He understood marriage to be a legal agreement rather than a sacrament.<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/> He stated that marriage was instituted by God but its regulation was the business of the State, not the Church. Luther defined marriage as "the God-appointed and legitimate union of man and woman in the hope of having children or at least for the purpose of avoiding fornication and sin and living to the glory of God. The ultimate purpose is to obey God, to find aid and counsel against sin; to call upon God; to seek, love, and educate children for the glory of God; to live with one's wife in the fear of God and to bear the cross..."<ref>{{cite web |title=Luther, Marriage, Church & State |author=Rev. Jack Cascione |publisher=Luther Quest |date=9 December 2003 |url=http://www.lutherquest.org/walther/articles/700/719.htm |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150103023834/http://www.lutherquest.org/walther/articles/700/719.htm |archivedate=3 January 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

[[Martin Bucer]] argued that sexual intimacy belonged in marriage and that, in marriage, the man becomes "the head and saviour of the wife and forms one flesh with her in order to avoid fornication and that the wife is the body and help of her husband, again to avoid fornication". Marriage for him, though, not only meant the avoidance of sin and procreation of children but social and emotional bonding resulting in a fellowship.<ref name="books.google.com.au">{{cite book |title=Marriage and Divorce in the Thought of Martin Bucer |author=H. J. Selderhuis |publisher=Truman State Univ Press |year=1999 |volume=48 |series=Sixteenth century essays & studies |isbn=978-0-943549-68-2 |page=264 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=OadxchJg5cIC&pg=PA264&lpg=PA264&dq=bucer+fornication&source=bl&ots=t3uSoczMBI&sig=YF8a6eLbz1FlE9n8UQh5__pmngo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=D7Y1VOOdLMnc8AWI9IDQAg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=bucer%20fornication&f=false}}</ref> As Selderhuis notes, for Bucer, "When people conduct themselves lasciviously, either as married or unmarried folk, they fall under divine judgement... Marriage... [is] the context in which sexual intimacy should have its place... Marriage is, after all, the only framework within which sexual desires can be legitimately satisfied."<ref name="books.google.com.au" />

[[Immanuel Kant]], who was raised as a [[Pietist]], considered sex before marriage to be immoral. He argued that sexual desire objectifies the person you crave and, since no [[categorical imperative|logically consistent ethical rule]] allows you to use a person as an object, it is immoral to have sex (outside marriage). Marriage makes the difference because, in marriage, the two people give all of themselves to create a union and, thus, now have rights over each other as each now belongs to the other. As Kant himself puts it, "The sole condition on which we are free to make use of our sexual desires depends upon the right to dispose over the person as a whole – over the welfare and happiness and generally over all the circumstances of that person… each of them... [are obliged] to surrender the whole of their person to the other with a complete right to disposal over it."<ref>Kant, I: ''Lectures on Ethics''</ref>{{page needed|date=May 2016}}

Today, the [[Lutheran Church of Australia]] asserts that premarital sex is sinful. It believes that sexual activity belongs within the marriage relationship only and that the practice of pre-marital sex is in "violation of the will of God".<ref>{{cite web |title=Attitude to Birth Control|url=https://lca.box.net/shared/static/ltyczvrxb3ovdrsk2p8s.pdf|accessdate=3 August 2013|pages=1–2|format=PDF|year=1968}}</ref>

In the United States, pastors of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod undertook a survey on premarital sex among their congregations in 2010. "These Lutheran pastors reported that over 57 percent of the couples they now marry are living together prior to the wedding, and that the rate of cohabitation in their congregations is increasing." Despite this trend, the Synod believes that "Regardless of the reasons given for living together, cohabitation is simply wrong for Christians."<ref>{{cite web|last=Bergmann|first=Rev. Kevin|title=Where Practice Doesn't Make Perfect|url=http://witness.lcms.org/pages/wPagex.asp?ContentType=Web-exclusive+Stories!&IssueID=56|publisher=The Lutheran Witness|accessdate=3 August 2013|date=June–July 2011|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131203003143/http://witness.lcms.org/pages/wPagex.asp?ContentType=Web-exclusive+Stories!&IssueID=56|archivedate=3 December 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The [[Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod]] (WELS) takes the view that "Any use of the gift of sex aside from the marriage bond is adultery, whether this is premarital or extramarital ... To engage in premarital or extramarital sex, before or outside of marriage, is to sin in God's sight. That is precisely the point of Hebrews 13:4, a verse often referred to in this kind of discussion. "Marriage" and the marriage bed ... go together and are to be kept pure. Using the "bed" aside from "marriage" is sin that God will judge... The counsel given in 1 Corinthians 7:9 makes the same point. If a person has sexual urges and the sex drive (a good gift from God in itself) expresses itself within a person, that person has a God-pleasing remedy identified: to be married and thus obtain the right to be sexually active. Before or outside of marriage, sinful lust is sinful lust."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://wels.net/faq/bible-and-premarital-sex/|title=Bible and Premarital sex|author=|date=|work=wels.net|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20161020213657/http://wels.net/faq/bible-and-premarital-sex/|archivedate=20 October 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

Elsewhere on its official site, WELS states that "Even though our unbelieving society embraces living together outside marriage as an acceptable lifestyle, it is still a sinful arrangement. A pastor or congregation will deal patiently with cohabitating people who are seeking spiritual guidance... [and a]... Christian life of sanctification. This is done by firmly yet gently confronting them with their sin... and then guiding them to change their behavior to show their love for Christ."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://wels.net/faq/living-together-versus-marriage/|title=Living together versus marriage|author=|date=|work=wels.net|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20161020212149/http://wels.net/faq/living-together-versus-marriage/|archivedate=20 October 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The [[Evangelical Lutheran Church in America]] (ELCA) delivered a detailed document, entitled ''A Social Statement on Human Sexuality'', in 2009. With regard to sex before marriage, the document, declares that "Because this church urges couples to seek the highest social and legal support for their relationships, it does not favor cohabitation arrangements outside marriage. It has a special concern when such arrangements are entered into as an end in themselves. It does, however, acknowledge the social forces at work that encourage such practices. This church also recognizes the pastoral and familial issues that accompany these contemporary social patterns. In cases where a decision is made for cohabitation, regardless of the reasons, this church expects its pastors and members to be clear with the couple regarding the reasons for the position of this church and to support the couple in recognizing their obligation to be open and candid with each other about their plans, expectations, and levels of mutual commitment. Some cohabitation arrangements can be constructed in ways that are neither casual nor intrinsically unstable... This church believes, however, that the deepest human longings for a sense of personal worth, long-term companionship, and profound security, especially given the human propensity to sin, are best served through binding commitment, legal protections, and the public accountability of marriage, especially where the couple is surrounded by the prayers of the congregational community and the promises of God."<ref>{{cite web |title=A Social Statement on Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust |date=19 August 2009 |publisher=Evangelical Lutheran Church in America |url=http://download.elca.org/ELCA%20Resource%20Repository/SexualitySS.pdf |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141127040806/http://download.elca.org/ELCA%20Resource%20Repository/SexualitySS.pdf |archivedate=27 November 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

The [[Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland]]'s stance on the issue is ambiguous. It strictly condemns extramarital sex but in relation to pre-marital sex it states only that "Sexuality disconnected from love and from responsibility enslaves people, bringing harm to themselves and others."<ref>{{cite web|title=Catechism: Christian Doctrine of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland |url=http://www.evl.fi/english/catechism.pdf |publisher=Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland |accessdate=5 June 2014 |date=1999 |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20070927200624/http://www.evl.fi/english/catechism.pdf |archivedate=27 September 2007 |df=dmy }}</ref>

According to the Kinsey Institute, "Today, the Swedish Lutheran Church is very liberal in action, but careful not to take formal stands in most sexual issues, such as premarital sex, cohabitation, and sex education."<ref>{{cite web|title=Continuum Complete International Encyclopaedia of Sexuality: Sweden|url=http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/ccies/se.php|publisher=Kinsey Institute|accessdate=6 June 2014|date=2006|deadurl=yes|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150209224231/http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/ccies/se.php|archivedate=9 February 2015|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The [[Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland|Lutheran Church in Germany]] (EKD) has noted that all forms of long-term cohabitation are vulnerable and that legislators must give due recognition to the fundamental significance of marriage.<ref>{{cite web |title=Improve the legal status of homosexual partnerships |year=2000 |work=EKD-Bulletin |url=http://www.ekd.de/english/1691-2896.html |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141006071219/http://www.ekd.de/english/1691-2896.html |archivedate=6 October 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> The Church has further stated that "Marriage and family alone can be considered as role models for living together."<ref>{{cite web |title=EKD supports blessing for homosexuals as part of pastoral care |year=1996 |work=EKD-Bulletin |url=http://www.ekd.de/english/1709-3765.html |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141006101508/http://www.ekd.de/english/1709-3765.html |archivedate=6 October 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

The Australian non-denominational Christian teen sex education website, "Boys Under Attack", cites Lutheran sources to assert that people should maintain virginity until marriage. The site asserts that all sexual activity – including oral sex and mutual masturbation – between unmarried persons is a sin.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://boysunderattack.com/virgin.html|title=Virginity – Teenage Boys' Sexuality|first=|last=J.M.|website=boysunderattack.com|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20161001210643/http://boysunderattack.com/virgin.html|archivedate=1 October 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://boysunderattack.com/basics.html|title=Masturbation and Christianity – Teenage Boys' Sexuality|first=|last=J.M.|date=|work=boysunderattack.com|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20161001210702/http://boysunderattack.com/basics.html|archivedate=1 October 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

==== Calvinism ====
Calvinism has traditionally always asserted that engaging in premarital sex is a sin.<ref>{{cite web|last=Helm|first=Paul|title=Sex, Marriage, and Family in John Calvin's Geneva, Volume 1: Courtship, Engagement, and Marriage|url=http://www.reformation21.org/shelf-life/sex-marriage-and-family-in-john-calvins-geneva-volume-1-courtship-engagement-and.php|publisher=Reformation21|accessdate=3 August 2013|date=July 2006|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130901073828/http://www.reformation21.org/shelf-life/sex-marriage-and-family-in-john-calvins-geneva-volume-1-courtship-engagement-and.php|archivedate=1 September 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> [[John Calvin|Calvin]] himself said little on why he thought engaged couples should not have sex and [[John Witte, Jr.|Witte]] believes his rationale for the prohibition was vague<ref>{{cite book |last=Helm|first=Paul|title=Sex, Marriage, and Family in John Calvin's Geneva, Volume 1: Courtship, Engagement, and Marriage|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=IlWH2jHaj1YC&pg=PA417&lpg=PA417&dq=john+calvin+cohabitation&source=bl&ots=PCD86PPN49&sig=ukCbeDu0Lxc0m-roXFlAh_EC86c&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LC0uVPrUH4ad8QWL-oD4CQ&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=john%20calvin%20cohabitation&f=false|publisher=Reformation21|accessdate=3 October 2014|date=July 2006}}</ref> but he did seek to reduce the length of engagements among couples in Geneva to less than six weeks, to reduce the temptation of premarital sex.<ref name="books.google" /> He agreed, though, with Luther that marriage was a legal matter for the state, not a sacramental matter for the church.<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/>

[[John Witte, Jr.]] has written a study on John Calvin and marriage and family life. In it, he notes that, "For Calvin, the Commandment against adultery was equally binding on the unmarried, and equally applicable to both illicit sexual activities per se, and various acts leading to the same. Calvin condemned fornication sternly—sexual intercourse or other illicit acts of sexual touching, seduction, or enticement by non-married parties, including those who were engaged to each other or to others. He decried at length the widespread practice of casual sex, prostitution, concubinage, pre-marital sex, nonmarital cohabitation and other forms of bed hopping that he encountered in modern day Geneva as well as in ancient Bible stories. All these actions openly defied God's commandment against adultery and should be punished by spiritual and criminal sanctions. Calvin preached against fornication constantly... He often led the Consistory in rooting out fornicators and subjecting them to admonition and the ban, and to fines and short imprisonment."<ref>{{cite book |author=John Witte Jr. |editor=Herman J. Selderhuis |title= Herman J. Selderhuis |ssrn=1014729|chapter=John Calvin on Marriage and Family |publisher=Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. |year=2009 |location=Grand Rapids |pages=455–465}}</ref> [[Theodore Beza]] likewise strictly condemned it.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://books.google.com.au/books?id=UXseDQAAQBAJ&pg=PT281&lpg=PT281&dq=calvin%20fornication&source=bl&ots=M7adGWj7as&sig=5R1tAfvi5L8Nw9_NaRhzOpemJhk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiswI2epM_PAhWGUZQKHZnKDEUQ6AEIPTAI#v=onepage&q=calvin%20fornication&f=false|title=Morality After Calvin: Theodore Beza's Christian Censor and Reformed Ethics|first=Kirk M.|last=Summers|date=28 September 2016|publisher=Oxford University Press|via=Google Books}}</ref>

Raymond A. Mentzer notes that, "Wherever Calvinism took root – Geneva and France, the Low Countries and Rhine Valley, Scotland, England and New England – an element of moral rigor... accompanied it. Churches fashioned in the Calvinist tradition have typically set extremely high standard of behavior and, more particularly, sought to compel a strict morality within the community..."<ref>{{cite journal|jstor=2540632|title=Disciplina nervus ecclesiae: The Calvinist Reform of Morals at Nimes|first=Raymond A.|last=Mentzer|date=1 January 1987|publisher=|journal=The Sixteenth Century Journal|volume=18|issue=1|pages=89–116|doi=10.2307/2540632}}</ref> Sin, including sexual sin, was not simply considered a private failing; it affected the whole congregation.<ref name="auto">{{cite web|url=https://books.google.com.au/books?hl=en&lr=&id=n_ipwgt-dtMC&oi=fnd&pg=PR7&dq=calvinism%20fornication&ots=TxWVTvoKNR&sig=0-vqYgRgnw1Op8w0_fGhVQ1DkAw#v=onepage&q=fornication&f=false|title=Sin and the Calvinists: Morals Control and the Consistory in the Reformed Tradition|first=Raymond A.|last=Mentzer|date=1 January 2002|publisher=Truman State Univ Press|via=Google Books}}</ref> E. William Monter asserts that, "The supposedly repressive dimension of Calvinist morality affected women's lives in ways which were often beneficial... Each year the [Genevan] Consistory judged a half-dozen cases of fornication by engaged couples and as many accusations of illicit sex between masters and servants."<ref>{{cite journal|jstor=3173922|title=Women in Calvinist Geneva (1550–1800)|first=E. William|last=Monter|date=1 January 1980|publisher=|journal=Signs|volume=6|issue=2|pages=189–209|doi=10.1086/493792}}</ref> In the 1560s, a consistory met for the first time in Nîmes. The town soon had a Protestant majority but it still faced an enormous task in cleaning up morals as one of the first Protestant-controlled societies in France. According to Mentzer, one third of excommunications in Nîmes between the 1560s and the 1580s were due to improper sexual behaviour. At this time, proper conduct was considered as much a public matter as a private matter. The struggle against worldly dissoluteness, and the enforcement of respect for the family and the pacification of society were setting Nîmes "on the path towards social reform and, by extension, modernity itself."<ref name="auto"/>

As a result of this new moral rigour, there were remarkably low rates of premarital conceptions and illegitimate births among [[Huguenots]] by the seventeenth century in France compared to the rates among their Roman Catholic opponents, from whom the Reformed sought to distinguish themselves by their moral holiness.{{sfn|Manetsch|2013|p=211}} The low illegitimate birth rate indicates that the Calvinists had internalised the values that condemned premarital sex as immoral.<ref name="Benedict1991">{{cite book |author=Philip Benedict|title=The Huguenot Population of France, 1600–1685: The Demographic Fate and Customs of a Religious Minority|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=py0LAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA101|date=1 January 1991|publisher=American Philosophical Society|isbn=978-0-87169-815-5|page=101}}</ref><ref>{{cite book |title=Transactions of the American Philosophical Society|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=m0sLAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA98|year=1966|publisher=American Philosophical Society|page=98|chapter=The Huguenot Population of France|issn=0065-9746}}</ref>

An interesting case is that of Pierre Palma Cayet, who scandalously wrote a book in which he provided a scriptural defence of brothels, prostitution and fornication, which led to him being deposed as a Huguenot pastor. Shortly afterwards, in 1595, he re-converted to Roman Catholicism. He was readily accepted back into that church as a priest.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ZH9Rkw4Yl8EC&pg=PA375&lpg=PA375&dq=castellion%20fornication&source=bl&ots=4lfGKi_s_Z&sig=DNxJ3wbuKThyHquuxeVxuSnMXsM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjd6Zbepc_PAhVEjpQKHQZQDvAQ6AEIHTAB#v=onepage&q=%20fornication&f=false|title=Theodore Beza and the Quest for Peace in France: 1572 – 1598|first=Scott M.|last=Manetsch|date=1 January 2000|publisher=BRILL|via=Google Books}}</ref>

According to scholar Nicholas Must, "Marriage was, in the equations of Huguenot ministers... a means to avoid promiscuity and lechery. As a result of this, many sermons that dealt with marriage were also an opportunity to announce the dangers of illicit sex while, at the same time, offering a relatively positive appraisal of conjugal sex. For instance, Jean Mestrezat declares simply that marriage is the recommended solution for illicit sexuality, since God hates all impurities, especially paillardise [sexual immorality]... In another sermon, [Pastor Jean] Daillé provides a close hermeneutical reading of paillardise in a sermon on 1 Corinthians 10:8 when he states that it includes "all the species of this sin, that is to say all the faults of this nature, which are committed by any person, whether married or not, simple fornication as well as adultery"."<ref name="macsphere.mcmaster.ca">{{cite web |url=https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/13992/1/fulltext.pdf |title=Archived copy |accessdate=2016-10-10 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20161010125748/https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/13992/1/fulltext.pdf |archivedate=10 October 2016 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> To the Huguenot, “simple fornication” is a "grave sin".<ref name="macsphere.mcmaster.ca"/>

Throughout the centuries, French Huguenots have remained strictly opposed to fornication in all circumstances. An example is the famous French Protestant pastor, [[André Trocmé]], (active in the 1940s), who is on record as having been against all premarital and extramarital sex.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=XY2iAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA78|title=A Portrait of Pacifists: Le Chambon, the Holocaust, and the Lives of André and Magda Trocmé|first=Richard P.|last=Unsworth|date=1 January 2012|publisher=Syracuse University Press|accessdate=17 September 2016|via=Google Books}}</ref>

Today, [[United Protestant Church of France|French Calvinists]] maintain very high ethical standards and feel themselves to be different from their French Roman Catholic neighbours, in terms of their attitudes and higher standards of behaviour, including sexual behaviour. Indeed, French Reformed Christians "are widely regarded as having particularly high standards of honesty and integrity".<ref>{{cite news |title=Keeping the Huguenot tradition alive |author=Mary Dejevsky |date=1 September 1996 |newspaper=The Independent |url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/keeping-the-huguenot-tradition-alive-1361451.html |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20170815181255/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/keeping-the-huguenot-tradition-alive-1361451.html |archivedate=15 August 2017 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> Even one of France's most liberal Reformed Calvinist churches,{{citation needed|date=October 2016}} [[L'Oratoire du Louvre]] in Paris, today still condemns premarital sex, including casual sex and sex with prostitutes in all circumstances.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://oratoiredulouvre.fr/faq/sexualite-et-foi.php|title=Sexuality and faith|author=Marc Pernot, pasteur|publisher=[[L'Oratoire du Louvre]]|accessdate=17 September 2016|language=French|deadurl=yes|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160920143847/https://oratoiredulouvre.fr/faq/sexualite-et-foi.php|archivedate=20 September 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=https://oratoiredulouvre.fr/faq/j-ai-du-mal-a-trouver-la-paix-apres-une-aventure-avec-un-homme-qui-ne-m-aimait-pas.php|title=Have I done wrong to find peace after an adventure with a man who doesn't love me?|author=Marc Pernot, pasteur|publisher=[[L'Oratoire du Louvre]]|accessdate=17 September 2016|language=French|deadurl=yes|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160920144451/https://oratoiredulouvre.fr/faq/j-ai-du-mal-a-trouver-la-paix-apres-une-aventure-avec-un-homme-qui-ne-m-aimait-pas.php|archivedate=20 September 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The famous Swiss Huguenot theologian, [[Karl Barth]], discussed sexual morality in his magnum opus, ''[[Church Dogmatics]]''. He stated that "Coitus without coexistence is demonic"<ref name="Barth, K: Church Dogmatics">Barth, K: ''Church Dogmatics''</ref> ("demonic", in Christianity, simply meaning any sphere that does not submit to God.) Barth goes on to state that "the physical sexuality of man should form an integral part of his total humanity as male or female, and that the completion of the sexual relation should be integrated into the total encounter of man and woman. All right or wrong and therefore salvation or perdition in this matter depends on whether it is viewed in isolation and abstraction or within this whole... If it is not, if physical sexuality and sex relations have their own right and authority in which man and woman and their encounter may be controlled and fulfilled, then it is a demonic business. Naturally, the command of God will always resist any such idea of sovereign physical sexuality."<ref name="Barth, K: Church Dogmatics" /> For Barth, to engage in sex outside marriage is not only rebellious but dehumanising as it puts humans on the level of animals, driven by passion and a search for self-gratification.

Furthermore, for Barth, "A wedding is only the regulative confirmation and legitimation of a marriage before and by society. It does not constitute a marriage."<ref name="Barth, K: Church Dogmatics" /> Sex within marriage can be sinful as well unless it affirms the coexistence of the couple. This opens the door to a more holistic understanding of sex.

However, a few modern Swiss Reformed theologians, such as Michel Cornuz, take the teleological view that premarital sex is permissible if the sexual activities take a form which respects the partner and helps the relationship grow in intimacy. These theologians hold that it is when a relationship is exploitive that it is sinful.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.questiondieu.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=2846&Itemid= |title=La sexualité avant le mariage, est-ce un péché?|publisher=Questiondieu.com|language=fr|date=1 October 2007|accessdate=2 August 2013}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.questiondieu.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=1914&Itemid=|publisher=Questiondieu.com|title=Sexualité, relations avant ou après mariage ... qu'en dit la Bible?|language=fr|date=12 September 2004|accessdate=2 August 2013}}</ref> (Hence, engaging in sex with prostitutes is always sinful as it is an exploitive relationship and does not allow the participants to grow in dignity.)<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.questiondieu.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=4354&Itemid=|publisher=Questiondieu.com|title=Est-ce que coucher avec une prostituée est un péché?|language=French|date=22 June 2010|accessdate=2 August 2013|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130702012915/http://www.questiondieu.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=4354&Itemid=|archivedate=2 July 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> This change has come about within the last two generations in Switzerland. Prior to that, the cultural norm was that the couple would not engage in sex before marriage. Hence, the modern Reformed theologians have endeavoured to meet the challenge of applying Christian teaching to this massive cultural change in Switzerland.<ref name="questiondieu.com">{{cite web |url=http://www.questiondieu.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=1945&Itemid=|publisher=Questiondieu.com|title=Est-ce important de rester vierge jusqu'au mariage?|language=fr|date=26 March 2005|accessdate=2 August 2013}}</ref>

Essentially, Cornuz and his colleagues feel that one should always be true to one's individual conscience, so if the person feels sex before marriage is sinful, that person should listen to his or her conscience and abstain.<ref>{{cite web|title=Vierge pour le mariage?|url=http://www.questiondieu.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=1302&Itemid=|publisher=Questiondieu.com|accessdate=3 August 2013|language=fr|date=12 July 2005|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://archive.is/20130730044756/http://www.questiondieu.com/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=viewlink&link_id=1302&Itemid=|archivedate=30 July 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> The key thing is that it is up to the couple themselves to decide if engaging in premarital sex or remaining virgins is the best way for them to reflect the love of God in their relationship.<ref
name="questiondieu.com" />

According to Mentzer, during the first fifty years of the Scottish Reformation, "more than two-thirds of the cases brought before the Consistory involved illicit sex... everything else paled before the apparent obsession of Scots Calvinists with sex".<ref name="auto"/> This contrasted strikingly with the data from Germany, the Netherlands and France. For the parish of Saint Andrews, fornication accounted for 47.4% of all cases heard between 1573 and 1600. 986 were charged with fornication (sexual intercourse between two single persons) and 813 with "fornication antenuptial" (sexual intercourse between two people who were engaged to each other but not yet married).<ref name="auto"/> Between 1595 and 1597, the fornication levels in Saint Andrews plummeted. "The only... explanation for the relative absence of sexual offences, improbably though it may seem, is that a... genuine "reformation of manners" took place in the burgh."<ref name="auto"/> Mentzer and Graham argue that this focus on sex may actually be due to the Kirk's early weakness. "Since there is strong sentiment in Western societies today that governments should stay out of the private lives of citizens, the church courts today seem nosy or even voyeuristic to our modern eyes. But this was no all-powerful Big Brother peering into bedroom windows. Rather the Kirk's obsession with sex was more a sign of its weakness than its strength... The need to discourage illicit sexuality was accepted by nearly all powers... even when they could agree on little else."<ref name="auto"/> Only when ministers and presbyters gradually gained a stronger position were they able to gradually turn their focus to other disciplinary breaches surrounding the Sabbath, superstitious practices, neighborly disputes and so forth.<ref name="auto"/>

Scottish Calvinists today remain deeply opposed to any kind of sex outside marriage. In 2008, the Scottish health minister, [[Shona Robison]] noted, "There are deeply-held views on moral issues and cultural and lifestyle issues... The Highlands in general ... have a strong Calvinistic streak, a prudish thing that sees sex as something that happens behind closed doors and drawn curtains. As a consequence of this and because of lack of a scene for gay people, both straight and gay people are being driven out into these isolated areas to have [casual] sex."<ref>{{cite news |date=31 October 2008 |url=http://www.heraldscotland.com/calvinist-attitudes-blamed-for-surge-in-outdoor-sex-1.826614 |title=Calvinist attitudes blamed for surge in outdoor sex |work=Herald Scotland |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150709013718/http://www.heraldscotland.com/calvinist-attitudes-blamed-for-surge-in-outdoor-sex-1.826614 |archivedate=9 July 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

The American Presbyterian Church, "like other Christian bodies, has viewed marriage as a prerequisite to sexual intercourse and considered sex outside marriage a sin".<ref>{{cite web |url=http://articles.mcall.com/1991-04-22/news/2802948_1_church-of-john-calvin-view-sexual-relations-human-sexuality |title=Presbyterian Sex Report Attacks Church's Attitudes |date=April 1991 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/20140204160440/http://articles.mcall.com/1991-04-22/news/2802948_1_church-of-john-calvin-view-sexual-relations-human-sexuality |archivedate=4 February 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

The prominent conservative American Calvinist theologian, [[R. C. Sproul]], opposes premarital sex on the grounds that the marriage covenant is an essential legal safeguard, protecting both members of the couple from each other's sinfulness.<ref>{{cite web |date=22 September 2014 |url=http://www.ligonier.org/blog/marriage-just-piece-paper/ |title=Is Marriage "Just a Piece of Paper"? |work=Ligonier Ministries |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140922120245/http://www.ligonier.org/blog/marriage-just-piece-paper/ |archivedate=22 September 2014 |df=dmy-all }} Excerpted from {{cite book |author= R. C. Sproul |title=Can I Know God's Will? |year=2009 |isbn=978-1-56769-179-5 |publisher=Reformation Trust}}</ref>

==== Methodism ====
The American Methodist theologian and pastor, [[Ben Witherington III]], believes that "virginity in a woman was highly valued before marriage [in Biblical cultures]... In early Jewish law if you had sex with a woman you were considered married to her or you had shamed her. See the story of Mary and Joseph. Porneia can refer to all sorts of sexual sin including deflowering a virgin... there was no dating or physical intimacy prior to an arranged marriage in the vast majority of cases. The notion of dating doesn't exist in Jesus and Paul's world. Second, honor and shame cultures placed a high value on sexual purity. Notice how prostitutes were stigmatized. Women were mainly blamed for sexual immorality. Finally Jesus gave his disciples two choices in Mt. 19—fidelity in heterosexual marriage or being a eunuch! This means no sex outside marriage."<ref>{{cite web|title=Is Premarital Sex a Sin? Bible Scholars Respond|url=http://seedbed.com/feed/is-premarital-sex-a-sin-bible-scholars-respond/|publisher=Kinsey Institute|accessdate=6 June 2014|date=7 August 2012|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140606222007/http://seedbed.com/feed/is-premarital-sex-a-sin-bible-scholars-respond/|archivedate=6 June 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The position of the [[United Methodist Church]] in the United States on the issue is as follows: "Although all persons are sexual beings whether or not they are married, sexual relations are only clearly affirmed in the marriage bond."<ref>{{cite web|title=Does The United Methodist Church believe that premarital sex is OK?|url=http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1322|publisher=United Methodist Church|accessdate=6 August 2014|date=2004|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://archive.is/20140811222306/http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1322|archivedate=11 August 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The [[Uniting Church in Australia]] is still formulating its views on the subject. It recognises the changes in marriage practice and lifestyle that have resonated throughout society and that the UCA is perceived by the public of being more accepting of the realities of humanity than many other denominations.<ref name="Bos 2013">{{cite web |last=Bos |first=Robert |title=Views of marriage in the UCA: Report on a consultation process (PDF) |url=http://assembly.uca.org.au/marriage/item/download/659_c2660aea3da95ad27c2d0d7af966ccec |accessdate=1 August 2014 |date=2013 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140706051911/http://assembly.uca.org.au/marriage/item/download/659_c2660aea3da95ad27c2d0d7af966ccec |archivedate=6 July 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref><ref>{{cite web|last=Dowling|first=Heather|title=Sex, Marriage and All That Stuff)|url=http://unitingchurchwa.org.au/blog/2012/02/sex-marriage-and-all-that-stuff/|accessdate=1 August 2014|date=2012|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140811005706/http://unitingchurchwa.org.au/blog/2012/02/sex-marriage-and-all-that-stuff/|archivedate=11 August 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref> A report noted that scripture is not really about marriage as understood in contemporary western societies and, in fact, has very little to say about it. In the report, the church also acknowledged that many unmarried people had sex but neither condemned nor endorsed it, instead noting that there were many different views within the church.<ref name="Bos 2013" />

[[Stanley Hauerwas]] argues that questions about sex before marriage need to be reframed in terms of the narrative of the church. He asks individuals to consider if it is a pure or licentious lifestyle that will best prepare the Christian to live out and serve in the narrative of the church. Doctor Hauerwas goes on to conclude, "For the issue is not whether X or Y form of sexual activity is right or wrong, as if such activity could be separated from a whole way of life... The issue is not whether someone is chaste in the sense of not engaging in genital activity, but whether we have lived in a manner that allows us to bring a history with us that contributes to the common history we may be called upon to develop with one another. Chastity, we forget, is not a state but a form of the virtue of faithfulness that is necessary for a role in the community... what the young properly demand is an account of life and the initiation into a community that makes intelligible why their interest in sex should be subordinated to other interests. What they, and we, demand is the lure of an adventure that captures the imagination sufficiently that conquest means more than the sexual possession of another. I have tried to suggest that marriage and singleness for Christians should represent just such an adventure, and if it does not, no amount of ethics or rules will be sufficient to correct the situation."<ref>Hauerwas, S: ''A Community of Character: Toward a Constructive Christian Social Ethic''</ref>{{page needed|date=May 2016}}

=== Mennonites ===
[[Mennonites]] believe that sex outside marriage is sinful. The Mennonite ''Confession of Faith'' states "According to Scripture, right sexual union takes place only within the marriage relationship. Scripture places sexual intimacy within God's good created order. Sexual union is reserved for the marriage bond."<ref>{{cite book|last1=Church|first1=published by arrangement with the General Board of the General Conference Mennonite|last2=Board|first2=the Mennonite Church General|title=Confession of Faith in a Mennonite Perspective.|date=1995|publisher=Herald Press|location=Scottdale, Pa.|isbn=0-8361-9043-2|url=http://www.mennolink.org/doc/cof/|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20061003102107/http://www.mennolink.org/doc/cof/|archivedate=3 October 2006|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

=== Quakers ===
[[Quakers]] are essentially non-judgemental about sex and relationships outside marriage.<ref>[https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/quakers_1.shtml BBC – Religions – Christianity: Quakers] {{webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180306204617/http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/quakers_1.shtml |date=6 March 2018 }}. 3 July 2009. Retrieved 8 February 2018.</ref>

=== Anglicanism ===
The official resolutions of the Anglican Church are produced by the bishops in attendance at the Lambeth Conferences, which are held every ten years. The 1988 [[Lambeth Conference]] made this declaration in its ''Resolution on Marriage and Family'': "Noting the gap between traditional Christian teaching on pre-marital sex, and the life-styles being adopted by many people today, both within and outside the Church: (a) calls on provinces and dioceses to adopt a caring and pastoral attitude to such people; (b) reaffirms the traditional biblical teaching that sexual intercourse is an act of total commitment which belongs properly within a permanent married relationship; (c) in response to the International Conference of Young Anglicans in Belfast, urges provinces and dioceses to plan with young people programmes to explore issues such as pre-marital sex in the light of traditional Christian values" (Resolution 34).<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.lambethconference.org/resolutions/1988/1988-34.cfm|title=Lambeth Conference Archives – 1988 – Resolution 34|author=|date=|publisher=|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160308224155/http://lambethconference.org/resolutions/1988/1988-34.cfm|archivedate=8 March 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

A subsequent resolution was made at the 1998 Lambeth Conference. This sitting of the Conference resolved, "In view of the teaching of Scripture, [the Anglican Church] upholds faithfulness in marriage between a man and a woman in lifelong union, and believes that abstinence is right for those who are not called to marriage" (Resolution I.10). This Resolution also commended a report on human sexuality entitled ''Called to Full Humanity'' which stated that, "The Holy Scriptures and Christian tradition teach that human sexuality is intended by God to find its rightful and full expression between a man and a woman in the covenant of marriage, established by God in creation, and affirmed by our Lord Jesus Christ. Holy Matrimony is, by intention and divine purpose, to be a lifelong, monogamous and unconditional commitment between a woman and a man. The Lambeth Conference 1978 and 1998 both affirmed 'marriage to be sacred, instituted by God and blessed by our Lord Jesus Christ'. The New Testament and Christian history identify singleness and dedicated celibacy as Christ-like ways of living."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.lambethconference.org/resolutions/1998/1998-1-10.cfm|title=Lambeth Conference Archives – 1998 – Resolution I.10|author=|date=|publisher=|deadurl=yes|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20100713215909/http://www.lambethconference.org/resolutions/1998/1998-1-10.cfm|archivedate=13 July 2010|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

In the United States, the Episcopal Church only approves "of sex between men and women who are married. In 1979, the U.S. church's governing body voted down a resolution to approve other sexual activity."<ref name=articles.latimes.com>{{cite news|title=Episcopal Unit Supports Non-Marital Sex|url=http://articles.latimes.com/1987-01-30/news/mn-1666_1_episcopal-church|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=Los Angeles Times|date=30 January 1987|agency=Associated Press|location=Newark, New Jersey|deadurl=no|archiveurl=http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/20130803150215/http://articles.latimes.com/1987-01-30/news/mn-1666_1_episcopal-church|archivedate=3 August 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

Historically, the English reformers had taken a stern view of adultery and fornication, which Homily 11 of the First Book of Homilies (1547) defined to include "all unlawfull use of those parts, which bee ordeyned for generation".<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/>

Prior to the ''[[Marriage Act 1753]]'' (commonly known as the Hardwicke Act), British couples could live together and have sex after their [[betrothal]] or "the spousals". Theologian Adrian Thatcher claims that, before the Act was introduced, in the United Kingdom the betrothal was a formal, preliminary stage of marriage involving vows. During this stage, the marriage would become permanent and indissoluble if sexual intercourse occurred or when final vows were taken, whichever came first. Either of these would render "the conditional promise unconditional".<ref name="pravmir.com">{{cite web|url=http://www.pravmir.com/article_750.html|title=Living Together before Marriage – the Theological and Pastoral Opportunities|author=|date=|work=pravmir.com|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160930031012/http://www.pravmir.com/article_750.html|archivedate=30 September 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Hence, having sex would automatically turn the betrothal into a finalized, indissoluble marriage.<ref>http://www.adrianthatcher.org/data/resources/living%20together%20ct.pdf</ref> Betrothal vows were given in the future tense, hence sexual intercourse "activated" them, signalling the beginning of the binding marriage.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.intriguing-history.com/hardwickes-marriage-act-1754/|title=Hardwicke's Marriage Act 1754 and Clandestine Marriages|author=|date=4 June 2015|work=intriguing-history.com|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160816055317/http://www.intriguing-history.com/hardwickes-marriage-act-1754/|archivedate=16 August 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The Council of Trent in the Roman Catholic Church and the above-mentioned Marriage Act in the United Kingdom eliminated the tradition of the betrothal stage of marriage. In the Eastern Orthodox Churches, betrothal still exists but it has been combined into the wedding ceremony, rather than remaining as its own separate stage of the marriage process.

Thatcher notes that, today, "Non-nuptial cohabitation is unlikely ever to be thought consistent with Christian faith if only because God wills only what is best for us, and there [are] good reasons for thinking that these arrangements are not the best for us." He outlines some of the damage he believes is caused by cohabitation outside marriage in his paper, supported by empirical data.<ref name="pravmir.com"/>

In the United Kingdom, whilst the State defined who was married, it was the Anglican Church that was given the responsibility to police this law for the State.<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/> Today, Britain remains abnormal among European nations in having Church weddings whereas most other nations on that continent insist on civil registrations leaving it up to the couple if they choose to have a religious ceremony as well.<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/>

The 1984 English Anglican booklet ''Forward to Marriage'' showed a tolerance of premarital sex but strongly endorsed marriage as "a necessary commitment for a long-term relationship".<ref>{{cite news |title=Anglican church tolerant on premarital sex issue|url=https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=19840114&id=xfxNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rIsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6595,1598815|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=The Free Lance-Star|date=14 January 1984|agency=Associated Press|location=London}}</ref>

In 1987, the American Bishop John Shelby Spong's Newark Diocese had commissioned a report that concluded that the "Episcopal Church should recognize and bless committed non-marital sexual relationships between homosexuals, young adults, the divorced and widowed..." The report aimed "to ignite a new debate on sexual ethics among leaders of the nation's 3 million Episcopalians in the hope that they will amend church doctrine to embrace all believers... Spong, an advocate of the recommendations... said his views are a minority position in the church."<ref name="articles.latimes.com" />

Also in 1987, the General Synod of the Church of England asserted "(1) that sexual intercourse is an act of total commitment which belongs properly within a permanent married relationship, (2) that fornication and adultery are sins against this ideal, and are to be met by a call to repentance and the exercise of compassion".<ref>{{cite web |author=Simon Sarmiento |title=What Rowan Williams wrote about homosexuality in 1988 |date=6 August 2011 |publisher=Thinking Anglicans |url=http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/005115.html |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150714221347/http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/005115.html |archivedate=14 July 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

The 1996 [[National Church Life Survey]] in Australia found that Australian Anglicans were more liberal about premarital sex than churchgoers from other denominations but more conservative than the general [non-church going] population. The survey noted a divide between Anglicans who wanted to support sexually active unmarried couples in their churches and others who did not.<ref>{{cite book |title=Anglicans in Australia|author=Thomas R. Frame|publisher=UNSW Press|year=2007|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=PhCh7ZgMOhAC}}</ref> A 2009 survey found that Anglicans (along with Baptists, Roman Catholics and Uniting Church members) had become a little more accepting of premarital sex compared to a 1993 survey, whereas Pentecostal Christians had become markedly more conservative. 54% of Australian church attenders felt pre-marital sex was always or almost always wrong, whereas only 3% of non-church attenders thought it was always or usually wrong. Among those who attended church on a weekly basis, the percentage of those who thought pre-marital sex was always or almost always wrong rose to 67%.<ref name="ReferenceA">{{cite book |author=Philip Hughes |author2=Lachlan Fraser |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=o0y9AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA89|title=Life, Ethics and Faith in Australian Society: Facts and Figures |publisher=Christian Research Association |year=2014 |page=89 |isbn=978-1-875223-77-0}}</ref>

A 2002 survey by the ''[[Church Times]]'' in England found that less than half of the 5,000 readers questioned said it was wrong for men and women to have sex before they married. Over 25% also said it was acceptable for a couple to live together without ever intending to marry.<ref name="rethink">{{cite news |url=http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article1908115.ece|title=Church told to rethink bar on sex before marriage|author=Ruth Gledhill|date=31 March 2003|work=The Times}}</ref>

The 2003 report, ''Cohabitation: A Christian Reflection'', produced by the Diocese of Southwark, found that the Church's traditional teaching that sex before marriage is wrong has been inherited from a different form of society than that which exists today. However, the report then cited research that illustrates the problems that accompany cohabitation, particularly with regard to raising children. It concluded that marriage is "a much more satisfactory social convention than cohabitation", but says that the Church has failed to present marriage in a way that captures the imagination of young people and that the Church needed to rise to the challenge and rediscover its confidence in marriage.<ref name="rethink" /> The report noted that Paul gave a "cautious welcome" to marriage, but that there was also a "militant apostolic view" that favoured celibacy, which "was seen as more noble than marriage" by many early Christians. The report also noted that "the strict sexual codes of the earliest Christian communities helped to give them a separate identity distinct from the sexual hedonism of the pagan world."<ref name="rethink" />

The report ultimately rejected the possibility that cohabitation with no intention to marry is acceptable for members of the Christian Church.<ref name="rethink" />

In a 2004 interview, the [[Anglican Primate of Australia]], Archbishop [[Peter Carnley]], noted that heterosexual de facto relationships and a disinclination to commit were more serious worries for him than the same-sex marriage movement. When asked if he thought sexual morality was subjective, he disagreed, stating "I think it's possible to say, for example, that it is objectively quite clear that promiscuity is a bad thing."<ref>{{cite news |date=25 February 2004 |title=Archbishop Peter Carnley suggests 'lifelong friendships' over gay marriage |publisher=ABC Australia |url=http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2004/s1053387.htm |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160731062100/http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2004/s1053387.htm |archivedate=31 July 2016 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

In 2009, [[N. T. Wright]] noted that, in popular discourse, there has been a "supposed modern and scientific discovery of a personal 'identity' characterised by sexual preference, which then generates a set of 'rights'... Without entering into discussion of the scientific evidence, it must be said that the Christian notion of personal identity has never before been supposed to be rooted in desires of whatever sort. Indeed, desires are routinely brought under the constraints of 'being in Christ'. This quite new notion of an 'identity' found not only within oneself but within one's emotional and physical desires needs to be articulated on the basis of scripture and tradition, and this to my mind has not been done... The church has never acknowledged that powerful sexual instincts, which almost all human beings have, generate a prima facie 'right' that these instincts receive physical expression. All are called to chastity and, within that, some are called to celibacy; but a call to celibacy is not the same thing as discovering that one has a weak or negligible sexual drive. The call to the self-control of chastity is for all: for the heterosexually inclined who, whether married or not, are regularly and powerfully attracted to many different potential partners, just as much as for those with different instincts."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.anglicancommunioninstitute.com/2009/07/rowan%E2%80%99s-reflections-unpacking-the-archbishop%E2%80%99s-statement/|title=Rowan's Reflections: Unpacking the Archbishop's Statement|author=|date=|work=The Anglican Communion Institute, Inc.|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141010113146/http://www.anglicancommunioninstitute.com/2009/07/rowan%E2%80%99s-reflections-unpacking-the-archbishop%E2%80%99s-statement/|archivedate=10 October 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

On another occasion, Wright stated, "We need to remind ourselves that the entire biblical sexual ethic is deeply counter-intuitive. All human beings some of the time, and some human beings most of the time, have deep heartfelt longings for kinds of sexual intimacy or gratification (multiple partners, pornography, whatever) which do not reflect the creator's best intentions for his human creatures, intentions through which new wisdom and flourishing will come to birth. Sexual restraint is mandatory for all, difficult for most, extremely challenging for some. God is gracious and merciful but this never means that his creational standards don't really matter after all."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.preachingtoday.com/illustrations/2015/february/7022315.html|title=N.T. Wright: The Bible's Counter-Intuitive Sexual Ethic|author=|date=|work=preachingtoday.com|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20170207210245/http://www.preachingtoday.com/illustrations/2015/february/7022315.html|archivedate=7 February 2017|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The former [[Archbishop of Canterbury]], [[Rowan Williams]],<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-140843/Sex-outside-marriage-sin-says-Archbishop.html |title=Sex outside marriage is no sin, says Archbishop |date=17 March 2013 |location=London |work=Daily Mail |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://archive.is/20131013232002/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-140843/Sex-outside-marriage-sin-says-Archbishop.html |archivedate=13 October 2013 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> and the Archbishop of York, [[John Sentamu]], have expressed tolerance of [[cohabitation]].<ref name="telegraph.co.uk">{{cite news|title=Royal wedding: Archbishop backs William and Kate's decision to live together before marriage|url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-wedding/8481736/Royal-wedding-Archbishop-backs-William-and-Kates-decision-to-live-together-before-marriage.html|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=The Telegraph|date=29 April 2011|first1=Tim|last1=Ross|first2=Jonathan|last2=Wynne-Jones|first3=Gordon|last3=Rayner|location=London|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131025011043/http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-wedding/8481736/Royal-wedding-Archbishop-backs-William-and-Kates-decision-to-live-together-before-marriage.html|archivedate=25 October 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> In 2011, [[John Sentamu]], commenting on [[Prince William, Duke of Cambridge|Prince William]] and [[Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge|Catherine]]'s decision to live together before their wedding, said that the royal couple's public commitment to live their lives together today would be more important than their past. Sentamu said that he had conducted wedding services for "many cohabiting couples" during his time as a vicar in south London.<ref name="telegraph.co.uk" /> [[Rowan Williams]] stated he did not personally believe sex outside marriage to be a sin and noted in 2002 that he found it hard to reconcile his liberal personal beliefs with the public stance of the Church.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-140843/Sex-outside-marriage-sin-says-Archbishop.html |title=Sex outside marriage is no sin, says Archbishop |date=17 March 2013 |location=London |work=Daily Mail |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://archive.is/20131013232002/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-140843/Sex-outside-marriage-sin-says-Archbishop.html |archivedate=13 October 2013 |df=dmy-all }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |date=2 October 2002 |url=https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/oct/02/religion.world |title=Archbishop-in-waiting rejects resignation call |author=Colin Blackstock |work=the Guardian |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160818150646/https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/oct/02/religion.world |archivedate=18 August 2016 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> However, in 2008, Doctor Williams said, "Sex outside marriage is not as God purposes it... I always find it difficult to condense sexual ethics into a soundbite... All I can say is where the Church stands – it's not a question of what Rowan Williams's view is... the biblical view of sexual relations is consistently within the pattern of absolute mutual commitment, reflecting God's commitment to his people. And the assumption of the Bible is that that commitment is heterosexual. That is the framework we work in."<ref>{{cite news|url=http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/georgepitcher/4843667/Rowan_Williams_and_sex_a_clarification/|title=Rowan Williams and sex: a clarification|author=George Pitcher|date=7 August 2008|work=Telegraph Blogs|deadurl=no|archiveurl=http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/20160422164308/http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/georgepitcher/4843667/Rowan_Williams_and_sex_a_clarification/|archivedate=22 April 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

In his earlier 1997 essay, "Forbidden Fruit: New Testament Sexual Ethics", Dr Williams had noted, "I can't see that the New Testament easily allows any straightforwardly positive evaluation of sexual intimacy outside a relationship that is publicly committed [in marriage]."<ref>{{cite book |title=Intimate Affairs: Sexuality and Spirituality in Perspective |author=Martyn Percy (ed.) |date=1997 |location=London |work=Darton, Longman and Todd}}</ref>

In 2013, Doctor Williams' successor, [[Justin Welby]], stated that "My understanding of sexual ethics has been that, regardless of whether it's gay or straight, sex outside marriage is wrong."<ref>{{cite web|title="Whether it's gay or straight, sex outside marriage is wrong" Archbishop Justin Welby |url=http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2013/03/17/whether-its-gay-or-straight-sex-outside-marriage-is-wrong-archbishop-justin-welby/ |publisher=Anglican Mainstream |accessdate=3 August 2013 |date=17 March 2013 |quote=My understanding of sexual ethics has been that, regardless of whether it's gay or straight, sex outside marriage is wrong. |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131014173535/http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/2013/03/17/whether-its-gay-or-straight-sex-outside-marriage-is-wrong-archbishop-justin-welby/ |archivedate=14 October 2013 |df= }}</ref><ref>{{cite news|last=Doughty|first=Steve|title='My wife keeps an eye on my drinking and I never do it alone': Archbishop of Canterbury reveals his fears of following father into alcoholism|url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294686/Archbishop-Canterbury-Justin-Welby-reveals-fears-following-father-alcoholism.html|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=The Daily Mail|date=17 March 2013|location=London|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://archive.is/20130731103548/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294686/Archbishop-Canterbury-Justin-Welby-reveals-fears-following-father-alcoholism.html|archivedate=31 July 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> He reiterated this belief again later in 2013, further noting that, "To abandon the ideal simply because it's difficult to achieve is ridiculous."<ref>{{cite web|last=Kellaway|first=Lucy|title=Lunch with the FT: Justin Welby|url=http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/eab099ce-b729-11e2-a249-00144feabdc0.html|work=Financial Times|accessdate=3 August 2013|date=10 May 2013|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130809005037/http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/eab099ce-b729-11e2-a249-00144feabdc0.html|archivedate=9 August 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> After Welby made his first statement, a ''[[Sunday Times]]'' poll found that "A majority of adults (69%, including 76% of those professing no faith) believe Justin Welby to be wrong in condemning sex outside marriage, while 17% think he is right (including 30% of Anglicans), and 13% are unsure."<ref>{{cite news|last=Field|first=Clive|title=Sunday Times Religion Poll|url=http://www.brin.ac.uk/news/2013/sunday-times-religion-poll-2/|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=British Religion in Numbers|date=17 March 2013|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131202235509/http://www.brin.ac.uk/news/2013/sunday-times-religion-poll-2/|archivedate=2 December 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The Kinsey Institute comments that "Prior to the 1950s, the religious influences forming sexual constructs [in Britain] came almost exclusively from "the official church" of England, and "unofficially" from the other Christian denominations. In recent decades, the picture has become more complex. Since midcentury, the Church of England's approach to social morality and sexuality has fluctuated between two poles, the traditionalists and the modernists, or the "permission givers" and the "orthodox moral directors". With the national religious scene resembling the circular approach of the politicians to sexual knowledge and attitudes, the sociosexual control and influence appears to bounce back and forth between church and state according to a mutually cooperative formula... This doctrinal "pendulum" is confusing for the majority of the population who are not experts at moral and theological niceties and subtleties. The people themselves are part of the system of confusion: While expecting clear and definite moral messages from both establishment and Church, they reserve the right to judge the validity of those messages, even when they are biblically based."<ref>{{cite web|title=Continuum Complete International Encyclopaedia of Sexuality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland|url=http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/ccies/uk.php|publisher=Kinsey Institute|accessdate=6 June 2014|date=2006|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150223110445/http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/ccies/uk.php|archivedate=23 February 2015|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The 2013 British Social Attitudes survey found that members of the Church of England have become more accepting of pre-marital sex over the past 30 years. In 1983, 31% of British Anglicans surveyed thought that pre-marital sex was "always" or "mostly" wrong whereas, in 2012, only 10% thought this was the case. Likewise, in 1989, 78% of Anglicans surveyed thought that people should marry before having children. In 2012, this had declined to 54%.<ref name="churchtimes.co.uk">{{cite news |author=Ed Thornton |date=13 September 2013 |url=http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2013/13-september/news/uk/christians-more-liberal,-survey-finds |title=Christians more liberal, survey finds |newspaper=Church Times |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150402200654/http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2013/13-september/news/uk/christians-more-liberal,-survey-finds |archivedate=2 April 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

=== Roman Catholicism ===
[[Catholicism]] equates premarital sex with fornication and ties it with breaking the [[Ten Commandments|sixth commandment]] ("[[Thou shalt not commit adultery]]") in its [[Catechism of the Catholic Church|Catechism]]:

<blockquote>Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm |title=Catechism of the Catholic Church – The sixth commandment |publisher=Vatican.va |date=29 October 1951 |accessdate=2 August 2013 |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130813092321/http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm |archivedate=13 August 2013 |df=dmy }}</ref></blockquote>

In his book, [[James F. Keenan]] reports studies by some academics. A study by Bernard Hoose states that claims to a continuous teaching by the Church on matters of sexuality, life and death and crime and punishment are "simply not true". After examining seven medieval text about homosexuality, Mark Jordan argues that, "far from being consistent, any attempt to make a connection among the texts proved impossible". He calls the tradition's teaching of the Church "incoherent". Karl-Wilhelm Merks considers that [[Sacred tradition|tradition]] itself is "not the truth guarantor of any particular teaching." Keenan, however, says that studies of "manualists" such as [[John T. Noonan Jr.]] has demonstrated that, "despite claims to the contrary, manualists were co-operators in the necessary historical development of the moral tradition." Noonan, according to Keenan, has provided a new way of viewing at "areas where the Church not only changed, but shamefully did not".<ref>{{cite book|author=James F. Keenan|title=A History of Catholic Moral Theology in the Twentieth Century: From Confessing Sins to Liberating Consciences|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=KWbtc5XPMw0C&pg=PA45|date=17 January 2010|publisher=A&C Black|isbn=978-0-8264-2929-2|pages=45–46}}</ref>

The Catholic Church did not pro-actively condemn men for pre-marital sex until the twelfth century. The Third [[Council of Aachen]] had previously noted that it was almost unheard of for a man to remain a virgin until his wedding but males remained largely immune to punishment whereas females were heavily penalized for sexual misdemeanours.<ref name="ReferenceC">{{cite web|url=https://books.google.com.au/books?id=SiGe-Zf0nTIC&pg=PA146&lpg=PA146&dq=third%20council%20aachen%20sex&source=bl&ots=R3dUT_JNV8&sig=b-VsUhEKhLhZkDFfwhXnmdl9dIQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZxuXO2avPAhWGF5QKHRTaCV4Q6AEIHjAB#v=onepage&q=third%20council%20aachen%20sex&f=false|title=Law, Sex, and Christian Society in Medieval Europe|first=James A.|last=Brundage|date=15 February 2009|publisher=University of Chicago Press|via=Google Books}}</ref> Despite the Church's disapproval of nonmarital sex, fornication continued to be commonplace in the early medieval period.<ref name="ReferenceC"/>

In the twelfth century, the Paris-based "Reform Church" movement was a Catholic faction that attempted to refocus society's moral compass with a particular emphasis on sex and marriage. The movement sent priests to Wales where it was, up until that time, the norm for Christians to live together prior to marriage.<ref name="walesonline">{{cite news |url=http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/gerald-wales-patriotic-welshman-arrogant-1848276 |title=Gerald of Wales: Patriotic Welshman or arrogant agent of English imperialism? |work=Wales Online |date=3 October 2002 |accessdate=14 October 2013 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131021051317/http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/gerald-wales-patriotic-welshman-arrogant-1848276 |archivedate=21 October 2013 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

Up until this period, marriage was considered a private contract between two people. They would make a pledge to each other and, from that moment on, they were considered married. This pledge could take place anywhere; it did not have to occur in a church and neither the church nor the state were involved. It was during the twelfth century that the Catholic Church took control of the process of marriage. From that point on, to be legally recognised, a marriage had to take place in a church with a formal service conducted by a priest. Hence all marriage and sexual activity now came under the control of the Church.<ref name="bbc.co.uk" />

At the time of the Reformation, the Catholic Church "officially advocated celibacy for the religious, and prohibited marriage, but allowed fornication and concubinage".<ref name="Manschreck2009">{{cite book |author=Clyde L. Manschreck|title=Melanchthon: The Quiet Reformer|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=t-pLAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA72|date=8 January 2009|publisher=Wipf and Stock Publishers|isbn=978-1-60608-283-6|page=72}}</ref> For instance, in 1527 all but 10 out of 200 Catholic clergymen in Thuringia were living with women outside marriage.<ref name="Manschreck2009" />

The [[Council of Trent]] (which began in 1545 in reaction to the [[Protestant Reformation]]) formally ratified the Catholic view that marriage was a sacrament and set strict guidelines around what constituted a legitimate marriage in Catholic eyes.<ref>{{cite encyclopedia |url=http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15030c.htm |encyclopedia=Catholic Encyclopedia |article=Council of Trent |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140811181949/http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15030c.htm |archivedate=11 August 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

In his 1930 encyclical, ''[[Casti connubii]]'', [[Pope Pius XI]] strongly condemned premarital sex and all forms of "experimental" marriage.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19301231_casti-connubii.html|title=''Casti connubii''|author=Pius XI|date=31 December 1930|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160904063929/http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19301231_casti-connubii.html|archivedate=4 September 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

The Catholic belief that premarital sex is sinful was reasserted in [[Pope John Paul II]]'s 1993 encyclical, [[Veritatis Splendor]].<ref>{{cite web |author=Pope John Paul II |title=Veritatis Splendor |url=http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor.html |publisher=Libreria Editrice Vaticana |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150323060907/http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor.html |archivedate=23 March 2015 |df=dmy-all }}
</ref>

In 2012, [[Pope Benedict XVI]] claimed that premarital sex and cohabitation were "gravely sinful" and "damaging to the stability of society".<ref>{{cite news|url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-17320932|title=Pope Benedict warns against gay marriage|work=BBC News|date=9 March 2012|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141023232431/http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-17320932|archivedate=23 October 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-pope-is-asking-us-bishops-to-crack-down-on-gay-marriage-cohabitation-and-premarital-sex-2012-3|title=The Pope Is Asking US Bishops To Crack Down on Gay Marriage, Cohabitation And Premarital Sex|author=Sarah Wolfe|date=10 March 2012|work=Business Insider Australia|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141014143110/http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-pope-is-asking-us-bishops-to-crack-down-on-gay-marriage-cohabitation-and-premarital-sex-2012-3|archivedate=14 October 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref> The Catholic Church continues to portray premarital sex as a shameful act and believes that sexual relations are only acceptable between a married couple.<ref name="catholicsforchoice.org">{{cite book |title=Catholic Attitudes on Sexual Behavior & Reproductive Health |publisher=Catholics for a Free Choice |year=2004 |url=http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/topics/prevention/documents/2004worldview.pdf |isbn=0-915365-60-X |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150923200923/http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/topics/prevention/documents/2004worldview.pdf |archivedate=23 September 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

The 2012 British Social Attitudes survey showed that only one in ten British Catholics and Anglicans thought that pre-marital sex was wrong (however, of those who attended Church on a weekly basis, only 23% thought it was permissible).<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.brin.ac.uk/news/2013/british-social-attitudes-survey-2012/|title=British Social Attitudes Survey, 2012|author=|date=|publisher=|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141006095044/http://www.brin.ac.uk/news/2013/british-social-attitudes-survey-2012/|archivedate=6 October 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

A 1994 study of French Catholics showed that 83% preferred to listen to their consciences rather than to the official position of the Catholic Church when making major decisions in their lives, leading to 75% of Catholics, by 2003, to say that cohabitation outside marriage is a personal matter and 13% to say whether it is right or not depends on circumstances.<ref name="HargreavesKelsay2007">{{cite book |author1=Alec G. Hargreaves|author2=John Kelsay|author3=Sumner B. Twiss|title=Politics and Religion in France and the United States|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=re2wIpEB310C&pg=PA84|year=2007|publisher=Lexington Books|isbn=978-0-7391-1930-3|page=84}}</ref>

A 2004 survey showed vastly different attitudes among Catholics in different nations. For instance, in Germany, 76% of Catholics agreed or strongly agreed that cohabitation before marriage was acceptable. In Spain, that number was 72%, in the Czech Republic it was 66% and in France it was 62%. At the other end of the spectrum, only 32% of Australian Catholics thought it was acceptable, followed by 39% in the Philippines and 43% in the United States.<ref name="catholicsforchoice.org" />

The same survey sought to show the number of Catholics who believed that premarital sex is "not wrong at all" or "wrong only sometimes". In the Czech Republic, 84% of Catholics believed this, in France it was 83% and in Germany it was 80%. At the other end of the scale, in the Philippines it was 21%, in Ireland it was 51% and in Australia and the United States it was 64%.<ref name="catholicsforchoice.org" /> The survey also claimed that 40% of Catholic women in the United States have cohabited outside marriage.<ref name="catholicsforchoice.org" />

The 2013 British Social Attitudes survey showed that Catholics have become even more accepting than Anglicans of having children outside wedlock: in 1989, 73% of British Catholics thought people should marry before having children; whereas, by 2012, just 43% thought so.<ref name="churchtimes.co.uk" />

A 2014 survey showed that most German Catholics also disputed the Church's ruling against premarital sex.<ref name="German Catholics reject sex rules, bishops tell Vatican">{{cite news |url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-04/german-bishops-tell-vatican3a-catholics-reject-sex-rules/5236262 |title=German Catholics reject sex rules, bishops tell Vatican |publisher=ABC Australia |accessdate=4 February 2014 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140204144909/http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-04/german-bishops-tell-vatican3a-catholics-reject-sex-rules/5236262 |archivedate=4 February 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

=== Evangelicalism ===
In his book ''Forbidden Fruit: Sex & Religion in the Lives of American Teenagers'', sociologist [[Mark Regnerus]] notes that "Evangelical Christian teens are more likely to have lost their virginity earlier than mainline Protestants. They start having sex on average at age 16.3 and are more likely than other religious groups to have had three or more sexual partners by age 17."<ref>{{cite news |last=Gilmour|first=Maggie|title=Let's face it, sex happens|url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/05/07/f-vp-gilmour.html|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=CBC News|date=7 May 2010}}</ref>

A 2012 study, the National Survey of Reproductive and Contraceptive Knowledge, found that 80% of young American evangelical Christians aged between 18 and 29 are having pre-marital sex.<ref>{{cite web |author=Heather Dowling |date=5 February 2012 |url=http://unitingchurchwa.org.au/blog/2012/02/sex-marriage-and-all-that-stuff/ |title=Sex, Marriage and All That Stuff |publisher=Uniting Church in Australia Western Australia |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140811005706/http://unitingchurchwa.org.au/blog/2012/02/sex-marriage-and-all-that-stuff/ |archivedate=11 August 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

A 2012 survey found 56% of unmarried evangelical Christians between the ages of 18 and 29 were never sexually active. Unlike previous studies, this survey did not rely on respondents simply identifying themselves as "evangelical" but also had to attend a Protestant church at least once a month, believe that they will go to heaven when they die because they have accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior, strongly agree that the Bible is the written word of God and is accurate in all that it teaches, that their personal commitment to Jesus Christ is still important to their lives today, that eternal salvation is possible only through Jesus Christ, and that they personally have a responsibility to tell others about their religious beliefs.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.nae.net/most-unmarried-evangelical-millennials-have-never-had-sex/|title=Most Unmarried Evangelical Millennials Have Never Had Sex – National Association of Evangelicals|date=2012-11-29|work=National Association of Evangelicals|access-date=2017-10-16|language=en-US|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20171017041846/https://www.nae.net/most-unmarried-evangelical-millennials-have-never-had-sex/|archivedate=17 October 2017|df=dmy-all}}</ref> The same survey also found higher religiosity, as measured by frequency of Bible reading, was correlated with a lower rate of non-marital sexual activity.<ref>{{Cite news|url=https://www.nae.net/more-frequent-bible-readers-less-likely-to-have-sex-outside-marriage/|title=More Frequent Bible Readers Less Likely to Have Sex Outside Marriage – National Association of Evangelicals|date=2012-12-06|work=National Association of Evangelicals|access-date=2017-10-16|language=en-US|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20171017042010/https://www.nae.net/more-frequent-bible-readers-less-likely-to-have-sex-outside-marriage/|archivedate=17 October 2017|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

A 2014 press release from online dating websites announced the results of a poll of 2,600 Americans in their attitudes towards dating and sex.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140121-905639.html|title=ChristianMingle(R) and JDate(R) Release Second Annual State of Dating in America(TM) Report|work=Press Release/Marketwired|date=21 January 2014}}</ref> The poll found that 61 percent of Christians believed they would have sex before marriage. Fifty-six percent found it appropriate to cohabit with a romantic partner after dating for a time between six months and two years.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-are-following-secular-trends-in-premarital-sex-cohabitation-outside-of-marriage-says-dating-site-survey-113373/ |title=Christians Are Following Secular Trends in Premarital Sex, Cohabitation Outside of Marriage, Says Dating Site Survey |work=Christian Post |date=January 2014}}</ref>

==== American Baptists ====
The [[American Baptist Churches USA|American Baptist]] pastor and assistant professor, Jennifer Knust, believes that the Bible is contradictory on the subject of premarital sex and that some Bible texts, notably the [[Book of Ruth]], present it as a source of God's blessing.<ref>{{cite web |author=Stephen Prothero |date=16 February 2011 |url=http://www.bu.edu/today/2011/the-bible%E2%80%99s-contradictions-about-sex/ |title=The Bible's Contradictions About Sex |work=BU Today |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141006090401/http://www.bu.edu/today/2011/the-bible%E2%80%99s-contradictions-about-sex/ |archivedate=6 October 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref><ref>{{cite AV Media |author=Terry Gross |work=Fresh Air |url=https://www.npr.org/2011/03/10/133245874/unprotected-texts-the-bible-on-sex-and-marriage |title='Unprotected Texts': The Bible on Sex And Marriage |date=10 March 2011 |publisher=NPR |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20170815174625/http://www.npr.org/2011/03/10/133245874/unprotected-texts-the-bible-on-sex-and-marriage |archivedate=15 August 2017 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

==== Southern Baptist convention ====
A 2013 study of 151 newly married young adults at nine Southern Baptist churches in Texas found that over 70% of respondents reported having had premarital vaginal or oral sex.<ref>{{cite journal |author=Rosenbaum JE, Weathersbee B |title=True love waits: do Southern Baptists? Premarital sexual behavior among newly married Southern Baptist Sunday school students |journal=J Relig Health |volume=52 |issue=1 |pages=263–75 |date=March 2013 |pmid=21274632 |pmc=3156853 |doi=10.1007/s10943-010-9445-5 }}</ref> The Southern Baptist scholar [[Frank Stagg (theologian)|Frank Stagg]] interpreted the New Testament as saying that sex is reserved for marriage.<ref name="Staggs">Stagg, Evelyn and Frank. ''Woman in the World of Jesus.'' Philadelphia: Westminster, 1978. {{ISBN|0-664-24195-6}}</ref> He maintained that the New Testament teaches that sex outside marriage is a sin of [[adultery]] if either sexual participant is married, otherwise the sin of [[Porneia|fornication]] if both sexual participants are unmarried.

The Southern Baptists' Ethics and Religious Liberties Commission also condemns premarital sex on the grounds of their interpretation of the Bible.<ref name="erlc.com">{{cite web|url=http://erlc.com/article/cohabitation-confusion-what-does-the-bible-say |title=Archived copy |accessdate=30 September 2014 |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141006120158/http://erlc.com/article/cohabitation-confusion-what-does-the-bible-say |archivedate=6 October 2014 }}</ref> Feeling that marriage is a "divine institution"<ref name="erlc.com" /> the Southern Baptist position is closer to that of Roman Catholic sacramentalism than that of Luther and Calvin who maintained marriage was a legal agreement and the business of the State.<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/>

==== Pentecostals ====
In Australia, Pentecostals are increasingly opposed to the concept of premarital sex. In 1993, 62% of Australian Pentecostals felt that sex before marriage was wrong. By 2009, that figure had jumped to 78%.<ref name="ReferenceA" />

==Other faiths==
=== Bahá'í Faith ===
Bahá'ís are required to be "absolutely chaste" before marriage.<ref>{{cite book |title=The Lights of Guidance|author=Helen Hornby|url=http://bahai-library.com/hornby_lights_guidance_2&chapter=2#n1212}}</ref> To Bahá'ís this means not only abstaining from fornication, but also abstaining from hugging and kissing before marriage.<ref>{{cite letter |recipient=National Spiritual Assembly of the United States |title=Letter dated February 10, 1974|author=The Universal House of Justice|url=http://bahai-library.com/guardian_easy_familiarity#s4}}</ref> The most holy book of the Bahá'í Faith, the [[Kitáb-i-Aqdas]], punishes fornication with fines which double with every offense (as in the [[wheat and chessboard problem]]).<ref>{{cite book |title=The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, paragraph 49|author=Bahá'u'lláh|url=http://bahai-library.com/writings/bahaullah/aqdas/kaall.html#par49}}</ref><ref>{{cite book |title=The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Q&A 23|author=Bahá'u'lláh|url=http://bahai-library.com/writings/bahaullah/aqdas/kaall.html#q23}}</ref> The Arabic word used in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas for this sin is [[zina]], which can refer to either fornication or adultery, depending on context, but [[`Abdu'l-Bahá]] has clarified that in this context the word zina refers to fornication.<ref name=F77>{{cite book |title=The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, footnote 77|author=Bahá'u'lláh|url=http://bahai-library.com/writings/bahaullah/aqdas/kaall.html#note77}}</ref> `Abdu'l-Bahá further states that the purpose of this punishment is to shame and disgrace fornicators in the eyes of society.<ref name=F77/>

=== Buddhism ===
Buddhism disapproves of extramarital sex and adultery, which is considered [[sexual misconduct]].<ref>{{cite book |title=World Religions|author=Warren Matthews|publisher=CengageBrain.com|page=142}}</ref> The precepts of Buddhism denounces fornication for the monastics. Sexual activities between lay people however are left to their own discretion so long as it is not sexual misconduct such as adultery: fornication in itself is not considered sexual misconduct.<ref>{{cite book |title=Buddhist Spirituality: Later China, Korea, Japan, and the Modern World|page=169|publisher=Motilal Banarsidass Publisher|author=Takeuchi Yoshinori}}</ref>

=== Hinduism ===
Hinduism condemns [[pre-marital sex]] and [[adultery]].<ref>{{cite book |title=The Origins of Evil in Hindu Mythology|author=Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty|page=7|publisher=University of California Press}}</ref><ref>Cynthia A. Graham and Kathryn Hall, ''The Cultural Context of Sexual Pleasure and Problems: Psychotherapy with Diverse Clients'', p. 175.</ref>

=== Islam ===
{{Main|Zina}}

In traditional [[Sharia|Islamic law]] unlawful sexual intercourse is called ''zināʾ'' (زِنَاء) or ''zina'' (زِنًى or زِنًا).<ref name=Semerdjian>{{cite encyclopedia|first=Elyse|last=Semerdjian|title=Zinah|encyclopedia=The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Islamic World|editor=John L. Esposito|publisher=Oxford University Press|location=Oxford|year=2009|url=http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195305135.001.0001/acref-9780195305135-e-0984|subscription=yes|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20170225223722/http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195305135.001.0001/acref-9780195305135-e-0984|archivedate=25 February 2017|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Classification of homosexual intercourse as zina differs according to [[Madhhab|legal school]].<ref name=EI2>{{Cite encyclopedia|first=R. |last= Peters | year= 2012 | title=Zinā or Zināʾ |encyclopedia=Encyclopaedia of Islam| edition=2nd|publisher=Brill |editors=P. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel, W.P. Heinrichs|url=https://dx.doi.org/10.1163/1573-3912_islam_SIM_8168|subscription=yes}}</ref> The [[Quran]] disapproved of the promiscuity prevailing in Arabia at the time, and several verses refer to unlawful sexual intercourse, including one that prescribes the punishment of 100 lashes for fornicators.<ref name=EI2/> Four witnesses are required to prove the offense.<ref name=EI2/> Zina thus belong to the class of ''hadd'' (pl. ''[[hudud]]'') crimes which have Quranically specified punishments.<ref name=EI2/>

Although stoning for zina is not mentioned in the Quran, all schools of traditional jurisprudence agreed on the basis of [[hadith]] that it is to be punished by stoning if the offender is ''muhsan'' (adult, free, Muslim, and having been married), with some extending this punishment to certain other cases and milder punishment prescribed in other scenarios.<ref name=EI2/><ref name=Semerdjian/> The offenders must have acted of their own free will.<ref name=EI2/> According to traditional jurisprudence, zina must be proved by testimony of four eyewitnesses to the actual act of penetration, or a confession repeated four times and not retracted later.<ref name=EI2/><ref name=Semerdjian/> The [[Maliki]] legal school also allows an unmarried woman's pregnancy to be used as evidence, but the punishment can be averted by a number of legal "semblances" (''shubuhat''), such as existence of an invalid marriage contract.<ref name=EI2/> These requirements made zina virtually impossible to prove in practice.<ref name=Semerdjian/> Rape was traditionally prosecuted under different legal categories which used normal evidentiary rules.<ref name=aquraishi>{{cite journal | last1 = Quraishi | first1 = A. | year = 1999 | title = Her honour: an Islamic critique of the rape provisions in Pakistan's ordinance on zina | url = | journal = Islamic studies | volume = 38 | issue = 3| pages = 403–431 }}</ref> Making an accusation of zina without presenting the required eyewitnesses is called ''qadhf'' (القذف), which is itself a ''hadd'' crime.<ref>{{cite book|last1=Peters|first1=Rudolph|title=Crime and Punishment in Islamic Law: : Theory and Practice from the Sixteenth to the Twenty-First Century|date=2006|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-0521796705|page=63}}</ref><ref name="DLB2004: 89-90">[[#DLB2004|DeLong-Bas, ''Wahhabi Islam'', 2004]]: 89–90</ref>

=== Judaism ===
The Torah explicitly forbids adultery. All women were expected to be virgins upon marriage. In the case they were found not to be by a betrothed husband, the punishment was death<ref>{{bibleverse||Deuteronomy|22:20–21|NIV}}</ref> if the man to whom she married was not the man to whom she lost her virginity. Also if a man and a virgin had sex prior to marriage, then they were forced to marry.<ref>Deuteronomy 22:13–29</ref>

To quote two sources, "The Torah does not outlaw it—as it does many other types of sexual relationships—and the child of such a union is not considered a ''[[mamzer]]'' (illegitimate). Nonetheless, marital sex is considered ideal, and premarital sex is traditionally not approved of. The negative attitude toward premarital sex, to a large degree, reflects the overwhelmingly positive attitude toward sex within marriage."<ref>{{cite web |title=Jewish Views on Premarital Sex |url=http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Premarital_Sex.shtml |publisher=My Jewish Learning |accessdate=6 June 2014 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140606234610/http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_Sexuality/Premarital_Sex.shtml |archivedate=6 June 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> Likewise, "The only limits placed on sexual activities in the Torah are prohibitions against adultery and incest. In Biblical times, a man was not prohibited from having sexual relations with a woman, as long as it led to marriage. The Bible never explicitly states a woman and man may not have sexual intercourse prior to marriage; therefore, no sanction was imposed for premarital sex, but it was considered a violation of custom."<ref>{{cite web|title=Premarital Sex|url=https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/premarital_sex.html|publisher=Jewish Virtual Library|accessdate=6 June 2014|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150424045758/https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/premarital_sex.html|archivedate=24 April 2015|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

Despite the fact it is not condemned in the Torah, Orthodox Jews are opposed to premarital sex.<ref>{{cite web|title=Premarital Sex, Orthodox Jews & Censorship|url=http://www.jewishjournal.com/keepingthefaith/item/premarital_sex_orthodox_jews_censorship_religious_bullying_20111215/|work=Jewish Journal|accessdate=6 June 2014|date=15 December 2011|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140613130422/http://www.jewishjournal.com/keepingthefaith/item/premarital_sex_orthodox_jews_censorship_religious_bullying_20111215/|archivedate=13 June 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

=== Sikhism ===
Sikhism condemns any type of adultery and pre-marital sex. This falls under the Sikh tenant of [[kaam]], which translates to lust or greed.{{Citation needed|date=October 2016}}

== Across History, cultures, and laws ==
{{Globalize|section|date=February 2013}}

A survey undertaken by the ''American Sociological Review'' between 2000 and 2008 covering 31 developing countries found that "94 percent of Jews... reported having premarital sex, compared to 79 percent of Christians, 65 percent of Buddhists, 43 percent of Muslims and 19 percent of Hindus."<ref>{{cite web|title=On sex, Muslims and Hindus practice what they preach|url=http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2012-10/who-most-likely-stray-christians-and-jews|publisher=Christian Century|accessdate=6 June 2014|date=30 October 2012|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140425011234/http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2012-10/who-most-likely-stray-christians-and-jews|archivedate=25 April 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

===Roman Empire===
During the sixth century, [[Justinian I|Emperor Justinian]] formulated legislation that was to become the basis of Western marriage law for the next millennia. Under his laws, cohabiting couples were no longer recognised as married and their children were regarded as illegitimate, with the same status as the children of prostitutes. However, the status of illegitimate children could be updated if the parents later married.<ref name="churchinwales.org.uk"/>

=== Britain ===
In the 1170s, "it was common practice for ordinary couples to cohabit before marriage and for cousins to marry one another"<ref name="walesonline" /> and there was very little stigma around bastards at any social level in medieval England.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://homepages.ius.edu/RVEST/RoyalBastards.htm |title=Archived copy |accessdate=30 September 2014 |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130109045747/http://homepages.ius.edu/RVEST/RoyalBastards.htm |archivedate=9 January 2013 }}</ref> For instance, [[William the Conqueror]]'s right to succeed to the throne of Normandy was never questioned on the grounds he was a bastard nor, in his conflict with [[Harold Godwinson]] over who should rule England, was this issue raised as an argument against him. However, attitudes shifted a few generations later when bastards were no longer able to claim the English throne.<ref name="bbc.co.uk">{{cite AV media|title=Medieval Lives – Birth, Marriage and Death: Episode Two (A Good Marriage)|url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cv0lm|publisher=BBC|accessdate=1 August 2014|date=16 October 2013|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141019195730/http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cv0lm|archivedate=19 October 2014|df=dmy-all}}</ref>

During the ascendancy of the [[Puritan]]s, an Act for suppressing the detestable sins of Incest, Adultery and Fornication was passed by the [[English Council of State]] in 1650.<ref>{{cite web|title=May 1650: An Act for suppressing the detestable sins of Incest, Adultery and Fornication.|url=http://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-ordinances-interregnum/pp387-389|publisher=[[British History Online]]|accessdate=15 August 2015|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150907001122/http://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-ordinances-interregnum/pp387-389|archivedate=7 September 2015|df=dmy-all}}</ref> At the [[Restoration (1660)|Restoration]] in 1660, this statute was not renewed, and prosecution of the mere act of fornication itself was abandoned. However, notorious and open lewdness, when carried to the extent of exciting public scandal, continued to be an indictable offence at common law.<ref>{{Cite NIE|wstitle=Fornication|year=1905}}</ref>

Prior to the passing of the [[Marriage Act 1753]], laws against bastard children became more strict during the 1730s and 1740s.<ref>{{cite web |title=Origins of the Old Poor Law |publisher=The Workhouse |url=http://www.workhouses.org.uk/poorlaws/oldpoorlaw.shtml |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20141006133822/http://www.workhouses.org.uk/poorlaws/oldpoorlaw.shtml |archivedate=6 October 2014 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

In the Victorian era, however, the English working class continued to have a different set of sexual mores from the upper-middle and upper classes. Premarital intercourse was considered acceptable for the working class but only after an extended period of courtship and occurred infrequently even then. The couple were expected to marry, though. Disgrace only arose if the female became pregnant and the couple did not marry.<ref>{{cite book |title=Promises Broken: Courtship, Class, and Gender in Victorian England |author=Ginger Suzanne Frost |publisher=University of Virginia Press |year=1995 |page=98 |isbn=978-0-8139-1610-1 |url=https://books.google.com/books?id=bqj-uL8CiLsC&pg=PA98}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |title=Victorian England: An Introduction |author=Christine Roth |publisher=University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh |url=http://www.english.uwosh.edu/roth/VictorianEngland.htm |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20150316094022/http://www.english.uwosh.edu/roth/VictorianEngland.htm |archivedate=16 March 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref>

=== United States of America ===
Ethical issues arising from sexual relations between consenting heterosexuals who have reached the [[age of consent]] have generally been viewed as matters of private [[morality]], and so, have not generally been prosecuted as [[criminal offense]]s in the [[common law]].<ref>Jim Thompson, ''The Journal of Criminal Law, Criminology, and Police Science'', Vol. 49, No. 4 (Nov.–Dec. 1958), pp. 350–356</ref> This legal position was inherited by the United States from the United Kingdom. Later, some jurisdictions, a total of 16 in the southern and eastern United States, as well as the states of [[Wisconsin]]<ref>Jim Thompson, ''The Journal of Criminal Law, Criminology, and Police Science'', Vol. 49, No. 4 (Nov.–Dec. 1958), pp. 350–356, 353</ref> and [[Utah]],<ref>{{cite web|url=http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter7/76-7-S104.html?v=C76-7-S104_1800010118000101|title=Utah Code, Title 76, Chapter 07, Part 1, Section 104. ''Fornication''|access-date=7 April 2016|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160422065848/http://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter7/76-7-S104.html?v=C76-7-S104_1800010118000101|archivedate=22 April 2016|df=dmy-all}}</ref> passed statutes creating the offense of fornication that prohibited ([[vagina]]l) [[sexual intercourse]] between two unmarried people of the opposite sex. Most of these laws either were repealed, were not enforced, or were struck down by the courts in several states as being odious to their state constitutions. See also ''[[State v. Saunders]]'', [[Court decision|381 A.2d 333]] (N.J. 1977), ''[[Martin v. Ziherl]]'', [[Court decision|607 S.E.2d 367]] (Va. 2005).

Some acts may be prohibited under criminal laws defining the offense of [[sodomy]], rather than the laws defining the offense of fornication. The U.S. Supreme Court decision in ''[[Lawrence v. Texas]]'' (2003) rendered the states' remaining laws related to sodomy unenforceable. ''Lawrence v. Texas'' is also presumed by many to invalidate laws prohibiting fornication: the decision declared sodomy laws unconstitutional, saying that they interfered with private, consensual, non-commercial intimate relations between unrelated adults, and therefore were odious to the rights of liberty and privacy, such rights being retained by the people of the United States.

=== Australia ===
A 2003 survey reported that most non-religious Australians thought that premarital sex was acceptable. It showed that there was a correlation between liberalism, education levels, lack of religious beliefs and a permissive attitude to premarital sex.<ref>{{cite journal |last=Rissel |first=CE |last2=Richters |first2=J |last3=Grulich |first3=AE |last4=de Visser |first4=RO |last5=Smith |first5=AM |title=Sex in Australia: attitudes towards sex in a representative sample of adults |journal=Australian and New Zealand Journal of Public Health |year=2003 |volume=27 |issue=2 |pages=118–123 |pmid=14696701 |doi=10.1111/j.1467-842x.2003.tb00798.x}}</ref>

=== Islamic nations ===
{{Further|Zina}}

[[File:Criminalization of premarital and extramarital sex as zina under sharia in Islam.SVG|thumb|400px|Islamic parts of the world where sex before or outside marriage is forbidden.<ref>{{cite journal | last1 = Mir-Hosseini | first1 = Ziba | year = 2011 | title = Criminalizing sexuality: zina laws as violence against women in Muslim contexts | url = | journal = SUR – Int'l Journal on Human Rights | volume = 15 | issue = | pages = 7–31 }}</ref><ref>Haideh Moghissi (2005), ''Women and Islam: Part 4 Women, sexuality and sexual politics in Islamic cultures'', Taylor & Francis, {{ISBN|0-415-32420-3}}</ref> [[Sharia]] considers consensual premarital sex a hudud crime, and requires public punishment.]]

In some Muslim countries, such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,<ref>{{cite news|last=Jordan|first=Mary|title=Searching for Freedom, Chained by the Law|url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082003754.html|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=The Washington Post|date=21 August 2008|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20121114180828/http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/20/AR2008082003754.html|archivedate=14 November 2012|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Afghanistan,<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.e-ariana.com/ariana/eariana.nsf/allArticles/807B10B75C9F425487257A740056F9CD?OpenDocument |title=Afghanistan sees rise in 'dancing boys' exploitation |work=The Washington Post |date=9 September 2012 |author=Ernesto Londoño |location=DEHRAZI, Afghanistan |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130510180701/http://www.e-ariana.com/ariana/eariana.nsf/allArticles/807B10B75C9F425487257A740056F9CD?OpenDocument |archivedate=10 May 2013 |df=dmy }}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.aidsportal.org/news_details.aspx?ID=4236 |archive-url=http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20081026065259/http://www.aidsportal.org/news_details.aspx?ID=4236 |dead-url=yes |archive-date=26 October 2008 |title=Home |publisher=AIDSPortal |accessdate=2 August 2013 }}</ref><ref name=travel.state.gov>{{cite web|title=Iran |url=https://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1142.html |publisher=Travel.state.gov |accessdate=3 August 2013 |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130731160533/http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1142.html |archivedate=31 July 2013 |df=dmy }}</ref> Iran,<ref name="travel.state.gov" /> Kuwait,<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/0/2f5665ae20b956cb8025675a0033cafb?Opendocument |title=United Nations Human Rights Website – Treaty Bodies Database – Document – Summary Record – Kuwait |publisher=Unhchr.ch |accessdate=2 August 2013 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20151031125832/http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/0/2f5665ae20b956cb8025675a0033cafb?Opendocument |archivedate=31 October 2015 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> Maldives,<ref>{{cite web|title=Culture of Maldives|url=http://www.everyculture.com/Ja-Ma/Maldives.html|publisher=Every Culture|accessdate=3 August 2013|deadurl=no|archiveurl=http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/20110702065002/http://www.everyculture.com/Ja-Ma/Maldives.html|archivedate=2 July 2011|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Morocco,<ref>{{cite news|last=Nakim|first=Nora|title=Morocco: Should pre-marital sex be legal?|url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19049000|accessdate=3 August 2013|publisher=BBC News|date=9 August 2012|deadurl=no|archiveurl=http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/20130702175935/http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19049000|archivedate=2 July 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Oman,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.interpol.com/Public/Children/SexualAbuse/NationalLaws/csaOman.pdf |title=Archived copy |accessdate=30 June 2013 |deadurl=yes |archiveurl=http://arquivo.pt/wayback/20160516065620/http://www.interpol.com/Public/Children/SexualAbuse/NationalLaws/csaOman.pdf |archivedate=16 May 2016 }}</ref> Mauritania,<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/af/154358.htm |title=2010 Human Rights Report: Mauritania |publisher=State.gov |date=8 April 2011 |accessdate=2 August 2013 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130713172200/http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/af/154358.htm |archivedate=13 July 2013 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> United Arab Emirates,<ref>{{cite web |author= |url=http://www.dubaifaqs.com/education-dubai.php |title=Education in Dubai |publisher=Dubaifaqs.com |accessdate=2 August 2013 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130806144910/http://www.dubaifaqs.com/education-dubai.php |archivedate=6 August 2013 |df=dmy-all }}</ref><ref>{{cite news|title=Briton faces jail for sex on Dubai beach|url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/briton-faces-jail-for-sex-on-dubai-beach-863918.html|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=The Independent|date=10 July 2008|first1=Terri|last1=Judd|first2=Nikolina|last2=Sajn|location=London|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20131002133147/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/briton-faces-jail-for-sex-on-dubai-beach-863918.html|archivedate=2 October 2013|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Qatar,<ref>{{cite news|title="Sex outside of marriage is a criminal offense here," PH ambassador to Qatar warns Pinoys|url=http://www.spot.ph/the-feed/49282/ph-ambassador-to-qatar-warns-pinoys-sex-outside-of-marriage-is-a-criminal-offense-here/|accessdate=3 August 2013|newspaper=SPOT.ph|date=12 September 2011|deadurl=no|archiveurl=http://archive.wikiwix.com/cache/20150901023356/http://www.spot.ph/the-feed/49282/ph-ambassador-to-qatar-warns-pinoys-sex-outside-of-marriage-is-a-criminal-offense-here/|archivedate=1 September 2015|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Sudan,<ref>{{cite news |url=https://www.reuters.com/article/2007/06/28/idUSL28849488._CH_.2400 |title=Sudan must rewrite rape laws to protect victims |publisher=Reuters |date=28 June 2007 |accessdate=2 August 2013 |deadurl=no |archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20130615115805/http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/06/28/idUSL28849488._CH_.2400 |archivedate=15 June 2013 |df=dmy-all }}</ref> Yemen,<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/47387b712f.html/ |title=Women's Rights in the Middle East and North Africa – Yemen |publisher=Unhcr.org |accessdate=2 August 2013}}</ref> any form of sexual activity outside marriage is illegal.

Aside from "a few rare and isolated" instances from the pre-modern era and several recent cases, there is no historical record of stoning for zina being legally carried out.<ref name=Semerdjian/><ref name=Semerdjian2>{{cite encyclopedia|first=Elyse|last=Semerdjian|title=Zinah|encyclopedia=The Oxford Encyclopedia of Islam and Women|publisher=Oxford University Press|location=Oxford|year=2013|url=http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref:oiso/9780199764464.001.0001/acref-9780199764464-e-0406|subscription=yes|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20170225223709/http://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref:oiso/9780199764464.001.0001/acref-9780199764464-e-0406|archivedate=25 February 2017|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Zina became a more pressing issue in modern times, as [[Islamist]] movements and governments employed polemics against public immorality.<ref name=Semerdjian/> During the [[Algerian Civil War]], Islamist insurgents assassinated women suspected of loose morals, the [[Taliban]] have executed suspected adultresses using machine guns, and zina has been used as justification for [[honor killings]].<ref name=Semerdjian/> After sharia-based criminal laws were widely replaced by European-inspired statutes in the modern era, in recent decades several countries passed legal reforms that incorporated elements of hudud laws into their legal codes.<ref>{{cite encyclopedia|ref=harv|first=Knut S.|last=Vikør|title=Sharīʿah|encyclopedia=The Oxford Encyclopedia of Islam and Politics|publisher=Oxford University Press|editor=Emad El-Din Shahin|year=2014|url=http://bridgingcultures.neh.gov/muslimjourneys/items/show/226|deadurl=no|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20170202054116/http://bridgingcultures.neh.gov/muslimjourneys/items/show/226|archivedate=2 February 2017|df=dmy-all}}</ref> Iran witnessed several highly publicized stonings for zina in the aftermath the [[Iranian Revolution|Islamic revolution]].<ref name=Semerdjian/> In Nigeria local courts have passed several stoning sentences, all of which were overturned on appeal or left unenforced.<ref>{{cite book|author= Gunnar J. Weimann|title=Islamic Criminal Law in Northern Nigeria: Politics, Religion, Judicial Practice|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=2joqx6vG74cC&pg=PA77|page=77|publisher=Amsterdam University Press|year=2010}}</ref> In Pakistan, the [[Hudood Ordinances]] of 1979 subsumed prosecution of rape under the category of zina, departing from traditional judicial practice, and making rape extremely difficult to prove while exposing the victims to jail sentences for admitting illicit intercourse.<ref name=Semerdjian/><ref name=aquraishi/> Although these laws were amended in 2006, they still blur the legal distinction between rape and consensual sex.<ref name=Semerdjian2/> According to human rights organizations, stoning for zina has also been carried out in Saudi Arabia.<ref name=EI2/>

== See also ==
*[[Adultery]]
*[[Casual sex]]
*[[Cohabitation]]
*[[Religion and sexuality]]
*[[Religious views on masturbation]]
*[[Free love]]
*[[Infidelity]]
*[[Lust]]
*[[Open marriage]]
*[[Promiscuity]]
*[[Zina (Arabic)|Zina]]

== References ==
{{Reflist|30em}}

{{sex}}

[[Category:History of human sexuality]]
[[Category:Sexuality in Christianity]]
[[Category:Adultery]]
[[Category:Sexual abstinence and religion]]
[[Category:Marriage and religion]]
[[Category:Sexual acts]]
[[Category:Sexual ethics]]

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:You forgot to say "please". [[User:Ritchie333|Ritchie333]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|(cont)]] 12:59, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
::Someone please give me a [[Template:The 25 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal|25 DYK Creation and Expansion Medal]] or else. [[User:LavaBaron|LavaBaron]] ([[User talk:LavaBaron|talk]]) 13:00, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Sorry, but the [https://hbr.org/1993/09/why-incentive-plans-cannot-work Havard Business Review] says that's a bad idea. Will a pony do? [[User:Ritchie333|Ritchie333]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|(cont)]] 13:12, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
::::That would be fine. [[User:LavaBaron|LavaBaron]] ([[User talk:LavaBaron|talk]]) 17:33, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
::::: Ha... You folks are funny.... Don't forget to update [[Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of DYKs]]. --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 19:22, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::::I need a 50 DYK award... just sayin'. [[User:Montanabw|Montanabw]][[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]] 23:27, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::[[Dennis Nedry|Ah, ah, ah. You didn't say the magic word]]! '''[[User:The C of E|The C of E God Save the Queen!]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|talk]]) 23:36, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::I almost just gave you one, but I checked [https://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/dyk.py?user=Montanabw] and you only have 48 DYKs. Sucks to be you. Meanwhile, I'll be trotting around the Teahouse on my brand new pony. [[User:LavaBaron|LavaBaron]] ([[User talk:LavaBaron|talk]]) 00:03, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::: Does the tool count DYK credits that were given out manually when the bot was down? --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 05:25, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::: Don't call me a tool. [[User:LavaBaron|LavaBaron]] ([[User talk:LavaBaron|talk]]) 07:24, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::: Disregard the preceding, I misunderstood. Anyway, supposedly it doesn't count DYK credits given out manually prior to 2001. I don't know that for a fact, though, that's just what I heard. [[User:LavaBaron|LavaBaron]] ([[User talk:LavaBaron|talk]]) 07:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::: The bot doesn't count manual credits. I know because I've had DYKs for [[Canterbury Cricket Week]] and [[Newry City Ladies F.C.]] done manually but the bot didn't count them. '''[[User:The C of E|The C of E God Save the Queen!]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|talk]]) 09:32, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::::OK. In that case I've just GF awarded [[User:Montanabw|Montanabw]] a 50 DYK medal. [[User:LavaBaron|LavaBaron]] ([[User talk:LavaBaron|talk]]) 12:02, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::::: [[File:Emoji u1f44f.svg|20px]][[File:Emoji u1f44f.svg|20px]][[File:Emoji u1f44f.svg|20px]] [[File:Emoji u1f60a.svg|20px]] --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 16:34, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::Thanks! And actually, it's 51: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Montanabw/DYK]. The old ones apparently didn't get counted or something... [[User:Montanabw|Montanabw]][[User talk:Montanabw|(talk)]] 00:40, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
::I didn't know that these medals existed. Can I please get my goodies? I'm at 88 nominations so far. I'm not sure how many are for creations/expansions, and how many for just nominations, but I think it's about 2/3 for creations.--[[User:3family6|'''3family6''']] ([[User talk:3family6|Talk to me]] | [[Special:Contributions/3family6|See what I have done]]) 20:15, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Please be encouraged to update [[Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of DYKs]]. Cheers! --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 23:12, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
::::The DYK notices tool says I have 25 DYKs while the ones I've manually listed out on my page say 26. --[[User:Rsrikanth05|Rsrikanth05]] ([[User talk:Rsrikanth05|talk]]) 07:05, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

== Nominations page isn't transcluding properly ==

Beginning with January 27 and down, something is out of kilter on the transclusion of the nominations. On my system, anyway, it just looks like regular wiki links to the templates. It's not specific to my browser, because I see that no matter which browser is used. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 01:16, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
:[[#Problems with the syntax?]]. We should probably add this to the FAQ. It gets asked almost weekly. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 01:45, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
::The quickest way to solve this and keep it that way would be to fill another three prep sets now, and keep the total of filled preps and queues at seven or eight. We have too many unpromoted nominations on the page at the moment, which exceeds the maximum number of transclusions for a single page. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 03:16, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
:::Even when it's not over the transclusion limit, this page is frequently browser-stutteringly too long. Why not have a bot move the approved-but-not-yet-promoted nominations to a different subpage? [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 04:14, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
::::I support this idea. That could make it easier for potential promoters to see what is ostensibly ready to go. If a promoter sees a problem with the nomination, it could be moved back to the regular nomination page. Pulling an approved nomination, whether on the suggested separate page, or from the prep areas, would the same effort. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 13:28, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::Agree with [[User:Maile66|Maile]]. It would make it a lot easier to find hooks to promote, rather than scrolling through hundreds of nominations. [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 20:47, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::{{yo|BlueMoonset}} You might have previously offered some insight about a separate page for approved nominations, but I don't recall. If a bot could handle this, do you see any drawbacks? [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 17:27, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Well, the DYKHousekeepingBot would need to be rewritten to a certain extent, since it currently builds that helpful [[Wikipedia:Did you know/DYK hook count]] table at the top of both the [[T:DYK/Q]] and [[T:TDYK]] pages. And would we want the table to be a straight combination of the now-separated pages, so it contains the same data, or would we want two separate tables? I'd be worried about pages being moved prematurely: the key to moving is presumably having the most recent icon be a tick or AGF tick, but sometimes discussions are ongoing even at that point, with a new ALT hook having been proposed that still needs reviewing. (On the other hand, I don't see how this is feasible without a bot moving hooks between pages; I would consider the amount of manual work moving between pages to be far more onerous than scrolling down a page that already has a table linking you to dates with approved hooks in them.) Would I be correct in assuming that the special occasion section, since it only has approved hooks, would move to the new page as well? Pinging [[User:Shubinator|Shubinator]], whose bots would need to be updated if some form of this goes forward. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 17:46, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::::The special occasion hooks open up an additional question, since we already have a separate page for April Fools Day. A lot of things to consider on the overall issue, but I think it's worth community discussion. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 18:01, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, people should probably stop using "approved" to mean "not really quite finished" then ;) Or make a new {{tl|DYKready}} template or something to say "I'm definitely no-really-I-mean-it-this-time finished reviewing this and you can move it to the approved-hooks subpage." The table can be assembled on a separate page and transcluded into both the unreviewed and reviewed nominations pages. As for special occasions, those get missed or forgotten so often that I'd be inclined to add a parameter to the nomination subpage template for requested dates, which could easily be read by the bot. [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 20:50, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::{{u|Opabinia regalis}} Reviews who say they've passed a nomination mean just that. What {{u|BlueMoonset}} is talking about, is that the DYK system allows anyone to come along after a nomination has passed and offer an alt hook, or question something about the review, which re-opens an already approved nomination. It's a good feature, because criteria gets missed in a review. The only way to get around that, is a system not in place at DYK - one or more designated persons who are the only ones who can give the final approval on a reviewed nomination. This idea has been floated earlier and met with resistance by editors who have seen it on other review processes and don't like it. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 15:00, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::You don't need "official closers". If the reviewed ones are all on a single page, then people who want to give a second look to the reviews can focus their efforts. If they feel that their input is necessary, they can remove the "ready" template. Or, if this is really such a critical function, require a seconder before the review is considered complete. The most persistently annoying thing about the DYK [[Rube Goldberg machine]] is how difficult it is to follow a nomination's progress through the whole process, which results in things getting overlooked. Being able to actually read the nominations page would be a start. [[User:Opabinia regalis|Opabinia regalis]] ([[User talk:Opabinia regalis|talk]]) 18:37, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

== Oldest nominations needing DYK reviewers ==

The previous list has just been archived, so I've compiled a new set of the 37 oldest nominations that need reviewing, which takes us through the first twelve days of 2016. As of the most recent update, 156 nominations have been approved, leaving 212 of 368 nominations still needing approval. Thanks to everyone who reviews these, especially the four remaining from December and first nine from early January that are left over from last week's list.

*<s>December 14: [[Template:Did you know nominations/2015 Zaria Shia Massacre]]</s>
*<s>December 23: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Shaykh Al-Mufid]]</s>
*<s>December 26: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Storm Eva and 2015 Great Britain and Ireland floods]]</s>
*<s>December 27: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Davis v. Ayala]]</s>
*<s>January 1: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Strikefleet Omega]]</s>
*<s>January 2: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Matt Hobden]]</s>
*<s>January 4: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Spiro Crne]]</s>
*<s>January 5: [[Template:Did you know nominations/psychology of eating meat]]</s>
*<s>January 6: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Before I Fall (film)]]</s>
*<s>January 7: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Manufactured Crisis: The Untold Story of the Iran Nuclear Scare]]</s>
*<s>January 7: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Borophryne apogon]] (two articles)</s>
*<s>January 7: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Nyāya Sūtras]]</s>
*<s>January 7: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Causeway Bay Books disappearances]]</s>
*<s>January 8: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Camp Napoleon Council]]</s>
*<s>January 8: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Tartan Laboratories]]</s>
*<s>January 8: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Psychic Blues: Confessions of a Conflicted Medium]]</s>
*<s>January 9: [[Template:Did you know nominations/MUSE School]]</s>
*January 9: [[Template:Did you know nominations/State Shinto]]
*<s>January 9: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Emil Källström]]</s>
*<s>January 9: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Operation Silver Buckle]]</s>
*<s>January 9: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Paul Rosche]]</s>
*January 10: [[Template:Did you know nominations/DDC-I]]
*<s>January 10: [[Template:Did you know nominations/First Congregational Church of Albany]]</s>
*<s>January 10: [[Template:Did you know nominations/The Getaway Car]]</s>
*<s>January 10: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Ranikot Fort]]</s>
*January 10: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Social Encounter Party]]
*<s>January 11: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Jan Theobald Held]]</s>
*<s>January 11: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Evelyn Boscawen, 6th Viscount Falmouth]]</s>
*January 11: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Sometime (Gene Thomas song)]]
*<s>January 11: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Ralph Waldo Swetman]]</s>
*<s>January 12: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Bridgeton Incident]]</s>
*<s>January 12: [[Template:Did you know nominations/List of international goals scored by Sunil Chhetri]]</s>
*<s>January 12: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Civil War II]]</s>
*January 12: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Kang Shi'en]]
*<s>January 12: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Debopriya Chatterjee and Suchismita Chatterjee']]</s>
*January 12: [[Template:Did you know nominations/1995 India cyclone]]
*<s>January 12: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Amritabindu Upanishad]]</s>
*<s>January 12: [[Template:Did you know nominations/Joaquín Clausell]]</s>

Please remember to cross off entries as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Many thanks! [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 03:39, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

== Prep 6 ==

Just a quick suggestion. In Prep 6 the bottom hook on [[St. Paul's Church, Rusthall]] had a good image to go with it (better than the lead hook currently being used IMO) yet it is not being used as the lead hook. Can we swap them? '''[[User:The C of E|The C of E God Save the Queen!]]''' ([[User talk:The C of E|talk]]) 10:11, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
:An image of a building has been more recently displayed than a person, so replacing the person with the building isn't really appropriate. If someone wants to move your hook and its image to a later set, they can certainly do that. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 20:09, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

== Removed from main page: ... that Polyclonoolithus is one of the only dinosaur eggs known from the Hekou Group in Gansu? ==

[[Template:Did you know nominations/Polyclonoolithus]] {{ping|Ashorocetus|Kevmin|Casliber}}

What does that even mean? "... that Polyclonoolithus is one of the only dinosaur eggs known from the Hekou Group in Gansu?"

Please, can someone dissect this sentence grammatically? To me, it looks to be an unhappy marriage of two or three ideas crammed into a single hook.

Feel free to readd it when corrected, I didn't see an easy way to phrase it comprehensibly without losing one or more of the probably intended meanings (only a few eggs are known from the Hekou Group, Polywhatever is only known from eggs from that group, Polyagain is the only recognised dino from those eggs...) Perhaps something like "That Poly is only known from dinosaur eggs from the Hekou Group in Gansu"? [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 16:07, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

:It may not be primary-schoo-simple, but it in no way seems incoherent. It's more a case of you failing to read the article. Polyclonoolithus is not a dinosaur, it's a family of ''eggs'' (see [[Dinosaur egg#Classification]], linked in the very first sentence of the article). Hekou Group is a rock formation, which is in Gansu. This is pretty much the same, grammatically, as saying "badgers are one of the only known carnivores from Ireland". How this somehow came to be considered worthy of removal is beyond me. [[User:Grapple X|'''GRAPPLE''']] [[User talk:Grapple X|'''X''']] 17:02, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

::I concur with Grapple. There is nothing wrong with the hook. It seems perfectly intelligible to me.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 17:06, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

:::But it is not "one of the few" or "one of the many", it is the only oogenus known from there at all. There are a few eggs known (as in shells), and one oogenus. But you can't use both at once. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 17:14, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
::::I see your point, having now read the article. The hook fact is not accurate as written and should not have been given an approval tick. That said, the writing of the hook was fine in terms of clarity which was the issue originally brought here. Nice catch on the factual error. A new hook should be proposed. Best.[[User:4meter4|4meter4]] ([[User talk:4meter4|talk]]) 17:22, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::Well, I thought that the discrepancy between the hook and the article was simply due to a poorly written hook, as it sounded strange to my ears. Not being a native English speaker, I demur to you (plural) that from a grammatical point of view, there was nothing wrong with the hook. It has since been reinstated (which I can understand, seeing the above), but now we have found that there is a problem with it anyway... It would be good if some other people gave their opinion as well, I don't feel comfortable removing it a second time. {{ping|BorgQueen}}, like I just said, no problem with your revert, but considering the comments since, I'ld like your opinion on this as well please. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 17:30, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::Actually the article IS correct, ''Polyclonoolithus'' (italics people >.> ) is the only described oogenus from the Geologic formation. NO other oogenera have yet been described, making the hook accurate. Fram, please actually read the articles before claiming inaccuracy. --[[User:Kevmin|Kev]][[User talk:Kevmin|min]] [[Special:Contributions/Kevmin|§]] 19:58, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::::To be clear, other eggs are known from the Hekou group (just no identified oogenera), so the hook is accurate as stated. The eggs discovered in 2009 were mentioned in the "Discovery" section of the article. [[Ashorocetus]] ([[User talk:Ashorocetus|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Ashorocetus|contribs]]) 22:09, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::::{{ping|Kevmin}}, please don't assume that I haven't read the article before I claimed inaccuracy. "One of the only" means (in a rather confusing way) that there are others; since no others have been described, we don't know if there are others or not (other eggs have been found, could be from the same oogenus, ''we don't know'' and apparently no one does. You wouldn't write "one of the only" if there only was one, I hope. No idea why this hook couldn't be written in an unambiguous way instead of this confusing and rather misleading one. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 07:36, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::It would be misleading to say "the only" because there are other eggs known from the site which have not been classified as ''Polyclonoolithus''. Anyway it's a little late to worry about it now. Sorry about all the confusion, I could have made it clearer, you're right. [[Ashorocetus]] ([[User talk:Ashorocetus|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Ashorocetus|contribs]]) 14:45, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::No, that's why I would have done a hook saying something like "that the only known Poly... dinosaur egg comes from the Hekou Group" or something similar, to avoid all problems and get the interesting fact across more clearly. Water under the bridge, opinions can differ and all that. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 14:49, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Gosh..been busy IRL and look what I've missed. I did read through it when promoting it and felt it was ok...but it was late and the article is a bit tricky to follow in places...[[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 01:20, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
:Yeah, I'm not a great writer. [[Ashorocetus]] ([[User talk:Ashorocetus|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Ashorocetus|contribs]]) 14:45, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
::Well, I'm not as great a reader as I thought, so I guess it's time for a grouphug ;-) [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 14:49, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
::: :D [[Ashorocetus]] ([[User talk:Ashorocetus|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Ashorocetus|contribs]]) 21:24, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Everyone, try harder. Case closed. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 22:04, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

== Just wanted to put a note here ==

Hey there. I just wanted to put a repeat note here about [[Template:Did you know nominations/First first-class cricket match in Australia]], as it was played on 11 and 12 February 1851. You may want this DYK to be placed on the main page during the said days this month. Thanks. [[User:Xender Lourdes|Xender Lourdes]] ([[User talk:Xender Lourdes|talk]]) 09:21, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
::{{ping|Xender Lourdes}} It's been added to the Special Occasion Holding Area for those dates. [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 11:29, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Thank you. [[User:Xender Lourdes|Xender Lourdes]] ([[User talk:Xender Lourdes|talk]]) 14:27, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

== New pageview stats tool ==

After getting no response at [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Pageview_Stats_down_again]], I started looking around. It seems that there is a new tool [/media/api/rest_v1/?doc#!/Pageviews_data/get_metrics_pageviews_per_article_project_access_agent_article_granularity_start_end here], but I do not understand how to use it. Does this replace [http://stats.grok.se/ the old stats tool]? If so, how do I use it?--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] ([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]] / [[WP:FOUR]] / [[WP:CHICAGO]] / [[WP:WAWARD]]) 13:29, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
:* Here's another pageview tool which I've just been trying: [https://analytics.wmflabs.org/demo/pageview-api/ Article Comparison]. It's especially good for comparing several articles together but will only take 5 - not quite enough for a full DYK batch. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew D.]] ([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 14:16, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::*{{u|Andrew Davidson}}, That is pretty good. It seems to go back to October 1, 2015 and does not seem to readily produce monthly totals.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] ([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]] / [[WP:FOUR]] / [[WP:CHICAGO]] / [[WP:WAWARD]]) 03:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:::*{{ping|Andrew Davidson|TonyTheTiger}} You can learn more about the new API and the tool on the [[wmfblog:2015/12/14/pageview-data-easily-accessible/|Wikimedia Blog]]! That's definitely only a demo app, hence the limitations. [[User:Ed Erhart (WMF)|Ed Erhart (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Ed Erhart (WMF)|talk]]) 05:23, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

== ErrantX's new stat tool ==

I see {{u|ErrantX}} has created a [http://tools.wmflabs.org/dykstats/ new tool]. It seems to me that the PM time slot calculation should be D0 + D+1 - (D-1 + D+2) or else one of the two days' stats still gets inflated.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] ([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]] / [[WP:FOUR]] / [[WP:CHICAGO]] / [[WP:WAWARD]]) 21:43, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
:I think Tony is right; but a lot of the stats have been calculated on the page elsewith. Changing it will potentially impact the ordering of a lot of the DYKSTATS, hence my suggestion it needs consensus. I think I might build the alternate calculation into the tool in the meantime to give both options. --'''[[user:ErrantX|Errant]]''' ([[User_talk:ErrantX|chat!]]) 08:25, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::I think there were calculations before any adjustment, but that did not stop deciding to use an adjustment. We should make the adjustment correct.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] ([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|T]] / [[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|C]] / [[WP:FOUR]] / [[WP:CHICAGO]] / [[WP:WAWARD]]) 03:31, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

== Prep 2 (Desert Rat & Silver Buckle) ==

"... that '''[[Operation Desert Rat|Desert Rat]]''' followed [[Operation Silver Buckle|Silver Buckle]]?"
I'm not commenting on the ambiguity of the hook here, but I noticed that Silver Buckle has its own [[Template:Did you know nominations/Operation Silver Buckle|nomination]]. I think common sense would be too bold it in this hook and reject its nomination. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 21:57, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

== Beatles hook removed from Main Page ==

Not having learned anything from my previous removal of a hook from the main page, I have now done it again... [[Template:Did you know nominations/Kali-Saṇṭāraṇa Upaniṣad]]

{{ping|Nvvchar|Ms Sarah Welch|Johanna|Jolly Janner}}

* ... that a Beatles' recording by [[John Lennon]] and [[George Harrison]] of the [[Sanskrit]] [[mantra]] verses in the '''''[[Kali-Saṇṭāraṇa Upaniṣad]]''''' topped the music charts in Europe in 1969?

As said on [[WP:ERRORS]], it wasn't a Beatles' recording (this isn't even claimed in the article) and it didn't top the charts (it made the top twenty in two countries and "did well" in another). [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 08:41, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, John Lennon also had no hand in the recording of this single (also according to [[The Radha Krsna Temple (album)#"Hare Krishna Mantra" single]]. Not a lot of this hook actually remains after fact-checking.

* ... that a recording by [[George Harrison]] of the [[Sanskrit]] [[mantra]] verses in the '''''[[Kali-Saṇṭāraṇa Upaniṣad]]''''' charted in a few countries in Europe in 1969?

Something like that? [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 08:55, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

* As someone who's done quite a bit of Beatles article work, the only thing Lennon was interested in in 1969 was [[Yoko Ono]], beds, trees and world peace. He'd gone off the Indian thing (see [[Sexy Sadie]]) so without even looking at a source I say the hook is questionable. [[User:Ritchie333|Ritchie333]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|(cont)]] 09:14, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

**Well, the hook was accepted in AGF mode, since it wasn't linked in the article. No idea why not, as it is available online at [https://books.google.be/books?id=0gkABAAAQBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=brooks,+%22The+Hare+Krishnas+in+India%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyqavLpdvKAhUDVhoKHbFkDBAQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=lennon&f=false]. Page 83 of that book supports the hook, the problem is that no other reliable source does. E.g. the song never was "the number one song on the English musci charts", it peaked at #12. None of the many sources discussing the Beatles' recordings seems to support the claim that "Collectively the Beatles produced and played on" this song or the album; a suorce about "Hare Krishna in India" is probably less reliable for these kinds of things than the collective Beatle-ology of the past 50 years. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 09:42, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

:::It is widely documented in numerous sources that the Beatles did not collectively record anything together after 20 August 1969, save for a single session with 3/4 of them on 3 January 1970.<ref>{{cite book|title=Revolution in the Head - The Beatles Records and the Sixties|author=Ian McDonald|publisher=Pimlico / Random House|isbn=978-0712-666978|p=322}}</ref> {{ping|JG66}} is our resident Harrison expert, so he'll be able to supply an authoritative source or three. [[User:Ritchie333|Ritchie333]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|(cont)]] 09:50, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}

{{od}}
{{ping|Fram}}, {{ping|Ritchie333}} Here are two sources, one a secondary source published by Princeton University Press and another a tertiary source published by Routledge:
::1. Charles Brooks (1989), The Hare Krishnas in India, Princeton University Press, ISBN 978-8120809390, pages 83–85, '''Quote:''' "Hare Krishna Mantra soon became the number one song on the English music charts, and had similar success in West Germany and Czechoslovakia".
::2. Peter Clarke (2005), Encyclopedia of New Religious Movements, Routledge, ISBN 978-0415267076, page 308 Quote: "There they captured the imagination of The Beatles, particularly George Harrison who helped them produce a chart topping record of the Hare Krishna mantra (1969) and ...".
I am also able to verify what @Fram states, the song reaching #12, staying on the charts for weeks, etc. The good faith question is whether the other authors are referring to the same music charts in 1969, and whether there was only one music chart? Given the controversy, I will update the article further (include the above dissenting viewpoints for NPOV with WP:RS), and leave the DYK decision to the consensus. The following seems supported by the multiple sources "... that a song based on Sanskrit language mantra verses in the Kali-Saṇṭāraṇa Upaniṣad became a chart topping recording on the 1969 music charts in Europe?" [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 12:27, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::::There is only one "official" [[UK singles chart|singles chart]] in the UK, and on that chart it reached #12. That does not make it "chart-topping", whatever some writers might say. [[User:Ghmyrtle|Ghmyrtle]] ([[User talk:Ghmyrtle|talk]]) 13:28, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I don't think proposing a different text after the blatantly wrong one has "graced" the main page for 8 hours is necessary, this article won't go in the DYK section again (no "DYK decision" will happen, if it had been caught during the standard process before it hit the main page things would have been different). I would urge you to simply remove the Brooks source from the article (at least for anything related to the song and album), as it is obviously incorrect in most of what it says. Adding a quote with the incorrect information, like you just did [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kali-Sa%E1%B9%87%E1%B9%AD%C4%81ra%E1%B9%87a_Upani%E1%B9%A3ad&type=revision&diff=703087621&oldid=703043612 here], goes against everything an encyclopedia should try to be. While Brooks may be well-informed about Krishna in India, he is clearly completely incorrectly informed about the Beatles and what happened with the song, and should just ''not'' be used for that kind of information. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 12:40, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

:<edit conflict>When I created the Radha Krisna Temple album article, I noticed that a few sources inflate the single's commercial success somewhat – I recall reading that the song was a top-ten hit in the UK, and number 1 in Czechoslovakia and/or Yugoslavia. There were at least four national singles charts in the UK during the late '60s, so it is possible that one of them listed the HK Mantra higher than number 12 (it peaked at number 11 on ''Melody Maker''{{'}}s chart, for instance). What these sources could well be referring to is radio play in W Germany, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia – as in the UK, it was hugely popular on the radio.

:But although Lennon was very interested in the Krishnas (he certainly didn't leave all things Indian behind post 1968; and heroin would be another [major] interest of his in 1969!), there's ''no way'' he participated in the recording. McCartney was in the control room at Abbey Road during the session, offering suggestions on microphone placement – and it does seem that some [[ISKCON]]-aligned sources overplay that detail, imo. The single was issued on [[Apple Records]], so, combined with George Harrison's very public support, this could well be how the idea came about that "the Beatles produced" the track. [[User:JG66|JG66]] ([[User talk:JG66|talk]]) 13:19, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

::@Fram: Your comments and concern about the Brooks' book published by Princeton University Press is duly noted. Are you okay with the cited sources, on the Hare mantra song, published by Routledge and Cambridge University Press? @JG66/@Fram: Given your knowledge of the Beatles, the song and album, I welcome you to edit and improve the article. [[User:Ms Sarah Welch|Ms Sarah Welch]] ([[User talk:Ms Sarah Welch|talk]]) 13:29, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

:::{{ping|Ms Sarah Welch}} I'd say the Peter Clarke/Routledge book is good. In the [[Kali-Saṇṭāraṇa Upaniṣad#Beatles and English music charts|article]], I think the Lennon picture should be replaced by one of Harrison, and the text should definitely list Harrison first. (The pic of him with Mukunda at [[The Radha Krsna Temple (album)#Album recording]] might be worth considering?) Harrison's ties to the mantra, the Upanishads and Gaudiya Vaishnavism were lifelong and a major part of his public image even before the Beatles' break-up. With Lennon, though, it was more of a passing interest as he battled heroin addiction. Hope that helps. [[User:JG66|JG66]] ([[User talk:JG66|talk]]) 13:57, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
:::(ec)I changed the section of the article somewhat, and removed the John Lennon image as being largely irrelevant now. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 13:59, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

This hook ran on the main page for over eight hours of its scheduled twelve. The nomination has not been reopened, and I believe that is the right decision: it has had plenty of time on the main page, and indeed more than hooks get when we're running three sets a day. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 18:04, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

== Queue 5: Insert Name Here ==

Can some people please check the Queue5 hook for [[Insert Name Here]]? [[Template:Did you know nominations/For What It's Worth (game show), Insert Name Here]]. {{ping|Launchballer|Lemuellio|Jolly Janner}}

* ... that although [[Sandi Toksvig]]'s takeover of [[QI]] made her the first female to front a UK panel show, [[Sue Perkins]]' '''''[[Insert Name Here]]''''' was broadcast first?

A) What is meant is the first UK '''TV''' panel show (see e.g. ''[[The News Quiz]]'' for a much earlier UK Radio panel show hosted by the same Sandi Toksvig)

B) What is meant is the first female to '''regularly''' front a panel show: e.g. ''[[Have I Got News for You]]'' has had multiple women to front the show, but none of them were a regular host

C) Why is ''[[A Question of Sport]]'' not a panel show?

D) If C doen't count, what about ''[[What the Dickens]]'', hosted by ... Sandi Toksvig?

It seems as if a completely new hook will have to be found for this one... Oh well, at least I have learned that Stephen Fry will be replaced by Sandi Toksvig! [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 15:14, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
:Those of us with long memories will recall Sandi Toksvig hosting the "Sandwich Quiz" on [[No. 73]] several decades ago, but calling that a "panel show" is stretching it a bit. [[User:Ritchie333|Ritchie333]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|(cont)]] 15:18, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::I cannot verify it myself, but another reviewer extracted this from the source: "the first female host of a mainstream comedy TV panel show". My guess is that The Times author doesn't consider A Question of Sport a panel show and doesn't consider the other ones as mainstream. I admit it seems confusing, but we'd need a reliable source that disputes this. Such as classifying A Question of Sport as a comedy panel show. I think it's pretty obvious to anyone familiar to British TV that it is both hosted by a woman and "mainstream". '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 15:27, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::[https://books.google.ca/books?id=bHAFCwAAQBAJ Page 110] classifies it as a Panel Show. This should be pulled. I'm not sure if The Times got this one completely wrong or were trying to be overly precise. Either way, I don't think there's any unambiguous solution. My preferred solution is to go with the original hook proposed in the nomination, which would require editing ''For What It's Worth'' in queue 4. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 15:41, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
:::[http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/14/stephen-fry-step-down-presenter-bbc-qi] "There are other BBC panel shows with women presenters – including Sue Barker on BBC1’s A Question of Sport and Victoria Coren on BBC2’s Only Connect. However, these shows are not strictly of the “comedy” variety, although their devotees may beg to differ. " So at least this reliable source disagrees with the hook as written. And of course we make a bit of a fool of ourselves if a DYK hook contradicts our own articles, like [[List of British game shows#Panel games]]. Yes, most sources support the claim in the hook, though with added qualifiers. Even so, most were ranging from debatable to flat-out wrong. [[User:Fram|Fram]] ([[User talk:Fram|talk]]) 15:48, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::::The Times remark, and any further reproduction of that fact, can be blamed on John Lloyd, who first came out with it and was consequentially paraphrased. You can probably just add the phrase "mainstream comedy TV" to the hook.--[[User:Launchballer|Laun]][[User talk:Launchballer|chba]][[Special:Contributions/Launchballer|ller]] 16:46, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::To any sysops, please remove this and re-open the nomination before it reaches the Main Page in six hours. I've also requested this at the errors page. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 05:57, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
::::::The hook has been removed, but that leaves {{Queue|5}} short a hook. Since the removed hook was in the quirky spot, perhaps the quirky hook from {{Prep|4}} would do the trick, assuming the prep hasn't been promoted to queue by that point? [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 07:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

== 200 character limit ==

Does the 200 character limit for length of hooks include wikimarkup? You know, the <nowiki>'''[[]]'''</nowiki> at minimum, plus any other brackets needed to link other articles? Also, does it include spaces? And if we pipe a link, does it include the hidden part of the link, or just what is visible to the reader? ~ ''[[User:ONUnicorn|ONUnicorn]]''([[User talk:ONUnicorn|Talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/ONUnicorn|Contribs]])[[WP:P&S|problem solving]] 16:42, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
:It's 200 visible characters, so it doesn't include any of that.--[[User:Launchballer|Laun]][[User talk:Launchballer|chba]][[Special:Contributions/Launchballer|ller]] 16:46, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
::It does include visible spaces, but as Launchballer notes, not any of the behind-the-scenes wikimarkup, just the actual visible characters. The initial ellipsis and space are not counted in the total, but the final question mark is. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 00:18, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

==International Women's Day hooks==
Our sets for [[International Women's Day]] are going to look pretty boring with approved hooks like these:
*... that Christiane Floyd was the first professor of computer science in Germany?
*... that Edith Ellen Greenwood was the first female recipient of the Soldier's Medal?
*... that Mary F. Hoyt was the first woman to receive a position in the United States federal civil service?
*... that Ellen Fitz Pendleton was the first woman to serve on a panel to award the American Peace Prize?
::I proposed on the template: '''ALT1''' ... that Wellesley College president Ellen Fitz Pendleton supported academic freedom for pacifists during World War I and later opposed the 1935 loyal oath required of teachers in Massachusetts? [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 17:21, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
:::You're great, Maile. [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 18:50, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
*[[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 16:25, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
: I suggest to add [[Delores Ziegler]], an American with a career in Europe, [[Template:Did you know nominations/Delores Ziegler|hook]] mentioning Dorabella, no first ;) - Also a teamwork. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 16:50, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
:*I don't know if this is what you mean by boring, but the hooks focus too much on "first" to do something. What did these women accomplish after they chanced to step into history as the "first" of anything? [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]])
:*Also, 4 of the 5 hooks listed in the special holding area are by the same nominator. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 17:31, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
::We have a few weeks to assemble the March 8 sets. In the meantime, we should start some kind of page patrol to weed out and destroy these "I'm the first!" hooks. [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 18:50, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Did You Know ... that Michelle Obama was the first descendant of slaves to serve as First Lady of the United States? Wouldn't it be a shame if that's if that's all someone knew about her? [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 21:40, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
::::Just saying that there are tons of nominations about women on the page that don't mention "firsts". (And for the record, those that are included here are not from someone who is part of WP Women, which is alleged below somehow to have a single mind that being "first" is sufficiently notable for a hook, which is probably not a very accurate statement). Very few of the approved hooks for women have been moved to either black history month or women's history month. [[Deolinda Rodríguez de Almeida]], [[Rosita Baltazar]], [[Gwendoline Konie]] [[Rose Piper]], [[Carmen Souza]] just to name a few. But there are indeed women who were "serial first"s whose accomplishments shouldn't be discounted, like [[Ruby M. Rouss]]. Even with her, though, there are hooks which don't mention her multiple firsts. Maybe just proposing alternatives if you don't like the hooks that are nominated would broaden the scope? [[User:SusunW|SusunW]] ([[User talk:SusunW|talk]]) 22:59, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::::: Once approved, you can move a nom yourself to the special area, --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 23:10, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

== DYK that sounds like advertising ==

This DYK sounds like corporate spam:

"...that web-based jewelry retailer Bravelets donates ten dollars of each purchase to the charity of the customer's choice?"

I believe it should be removed. [[User:Duivelwaan|Duivelwaan]] ([[User talk:Duivelwaan|talk]]) 01:06, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

== [[Template:Did you know nominations/2015 Corsican protests]] ==

If anyone wants to come up with an interesting hook for [[2015 Corsican protests]]...be my guest. I am reviewing it. [[User:Casliber|Cas Liber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 02:26, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

== Food related hooks in image slots ==

Can anyone explain to me the logic of having all the image slots for this coming Monday (Feb 8) dedicated to food? If these images were scheduled for Feb 9, [[Mardi Gras]] and [[Shrove Tuesday]], then there would be an obvious connection between the image subject and the date they are scheduled to run ([[pancakes]] would be a better fit that fruit and soup, but you take what you can get). What is the connection that I am missing? --''[[User: Allen3|Allen3]]'' [[User talk:Allen3|talk]] 12:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:Since posting my original comment, the block of food images has been broken up by {{u|Yoninah}} ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know/Preparation_area_1&diff=prev&oldid=703422427] & [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know/Preparation_area_4&diff=prev&oldid=703422442]). This leads to a second question: is a thick rich bowl of soup an appropriate image for [[Ash Wednesday]], a traditional day of fasting for many Christian denominations? --''[[User: Allen3|Allen3]]'' [[User talk:Allen3|talk]] 13:41, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
::I've moved the chowder to the PM slot for Shrove Tuesday. It means we have a gap of bio pics, but IMO we often overcompensate them for the lead hooks. Any other suggested improvements, Allen? '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 04:06, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

: I picked the strawberry pic. I wanted something red for Chinese New Year. At the time, I was thinking more about plants than food. Thanks, folks, for mixing things up. --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 22:52, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

== Page view stats has a temporary fix ==

"Temporary", being until WMF institutes a new and permanent one they will maintain. Until then, {{u|MusikAnimal}} has given us a fix. Details [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29&oldid=703447077#Page_view_stats_-_somebody_please_fix_this.21 VP (technical)] thread. MusikAnimal, you have made a lot of people on this DYK project happy today.[[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 16:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:My pleasure. The real credit goes to the [https://github.com/marcelrf this wonderful person] who works for the WMF. Not sure what their on-wiki username is. I just took their code and made it accept params so we could link to it. Cheers — [[User:MusikAnimal|MusikAnimal]] [[User talk:MusikAnimal|talk]] 16:44, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
::Another thing I wanted to mention... I understand the DYK project does some record-keeping on the most viewed DYKs. Problem is the old stats.grok.se only reported desktop views (and probably not all of them either), where as the new pageviews API reports mobile and desktop. Since mobile accounts for 50%+ of enwiki's traffic, what you're seeing now is going to be dramatically higher than what the old tool would report. Thus you should not compare your new DYK statistics with old ones. I suppose the old record book will have to closed entirely and we can start a new one. But at least we know that moving forward we will have fully accurate data :) — [[User:MusikAnimal|MusikAnimal]] [[User talk:MusikAnimal|talk]] 07:39, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
::I did some quick tests and it appears the pageview API data goes back as far as August 1, 2015. I have adjusted the tool to prevent querying data earlier than that. Best — [[User:MusikAnimal|MusikAnimal]] [[User talk:MusikAnimal|talk]] 07:43, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Data from between Aug and early Oct. is patchy (from my testing). Earlier data is not planned to be loaded I don't think. Regarding the mobile hits; for DYK this has accounted for only a slight increase (I think it looked to be around 10%) in totals. It's at least representative; especially if we use the new stats going forward & note on the page. --'''[[user:ErrantX|Errant]]''' ([[User_talk:ErrantX|chat!]]) 10:08, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
::::{{ping|ErrantX}} Thanks for the note on Aug/Sep, going to update my tool to block those months. It appears you and {{u|MelanieN}} are right about DYK stats... checking those articles I see marginal differences. Come to find out, DYK's aren't shown on m.wikipedia.org! So there ya go :) However raw data from day to day is drastic: For instance looking at [[Google]] on December 9, 2015 shows 17,937 hits, but through the pageview API we see 211,806. Maybe that's a bad example — [[User:MusikAnimal|MusikAnimal]] [[User talk:MusikAnimal|talk]] 19:30, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
:Please see [[Wikipedia:Web statistics tool]] for a collection of questions and possible [[Wikipedia:Web statistics tool#Moving forward|new solutions]]. --[[user:.js|.js]][''[[m:Democracy|democracy]] [[WP:WikiProject Democracy|needed]]''] 14:58, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

== Can old TFA appear as DYK? ==

[[Kerala]] was recently promoted to GA status and I was thinking about nominating it for DYK. The criteria states that any article that has previously appeared in the INT and OTD sections is ineligible. However, it doesn't say anything about articles that have appeared in the TFA section. Kerala was a FA long back and featured in TFA section in 2006. The article was demoted and it just passed a GAR. So, is it eligible to appear as DYK? Regards, '''''[[User:Yash!|Ya]][[User talk:Yash!|sh]][[Special:Contributions/Yash!|!]]''''' 06:18, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
:You are right; the rules do not cover this scenario. Since it was ten years ago, I see no problem with this. Indeed, I'm sure there are plenty of articles that were first featured on DYK? and later became TFA. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 15:38, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
::True. It's the other way around here so wasn't sure if I should nominate it for DYK or not. I will move forward with it then. '''''[[User:Yash!|Ya]][[User talk:Yash!|sh]][[Special:Contributions/Yash!|!]]''''' 19:54, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

== [[Template:Did you know nominations/List of songs recorded by Madonna]] ==

Can I some some discussion here please. nomination is slightly over the 7 day rule but I think it should be allowed. Thank you.  — [[User:Calvin999|Calvin999]] 22:20, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
:How much over the limit are we talking about here? If it's hours and up to a day, I would allow it. Days to a week and that's clearly not new. I can understand frustrations, since by the time they are received on the Main Page, nominations are typically three weeks old. I would stress the importance of getting a nomination posted as soon as you can. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 22:41, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
::The expansion started at 20:35, 26 January 2016 (UTC)‎, and the nomination was made at 14:56, 3 February 2016 (UTC). That's 7 days and 18:21 in toto. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 23:01, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Back when it was a 5-day rule, we used to allow up to 8-day nominations. I think we should accept this. [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 00:04, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::::I agree that as long as it passes all other DYK criteria on the review, we shouldn't quibble on a few hours (according to BlueMoonset's calculation above). It's a terrific work, and I assume you're taking it up to FLC. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 00:40, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::I would advise [[User:Northamerica1000]] to do a full review of the nomination if it's to be used as a QPQ for [[Template:Did you know nominations/Queen Elizabeth cake|Queen Elizabeth cake]]. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 01:56, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

== More DYK that sounds like advertising ==

Do we really have to put Samantha Bee ({{queue|1}}) on MainPage the day of her show's debut? Are we reminding people to watch? I'd rather have this on MainPage soon after the debut. --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 18:54, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:I have no objection to it being posted on the day of the show's debut. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 19:30, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:: I hope Wikipedia's MainPage doesn't look like free 'front-page' advertising space tomorrow. --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 22:46, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:I agree. This is blatant advertising. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 23:17, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

== Lame hooks ==

Seriously, the hooks in the current main page group are appalling: the BMW one has "BMW ... bike ... BMW ... BMW bike" in one sentence. The <s>may</s>fly hook has "long wings ... longest wings .... lacewing". This is garbage for the main page of an encyclopedia. I'm trying to make sure the quality of the articles we feature isn't appalling, but these kind of hooks really need work before they're accepted and promoted. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 19:36, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:I don't suppose we could entice you to cruise by the Queues every now and then. You know...before this kind of stuff gets to the main page. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 20:27, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::I cruise by every article itself, but not the queues. I don't have time to think that hard, that's what the promoting editor and promoting admin should be doing. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:30, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::*Mayfly? ''Makarkinia'' isnt a mayfly, first off. Its a neuropteran, and if I had just put Neuropteran, the complaint would have been that I should have used the "vernacular" name becuse no one knows what a neuropteran is. IF you feel the need to bitch about things, then actually look at the preps and make suggestions there. How exactly would you have worded a hook on the longest wings of any species in the Lacewing order?--20:36, 7 February 2016 (UTC) — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Kevmin|Kevmin]] ([[User talk:Kevmin|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Kevmin|contribs]]) 
:::*For a start, I'd have refrained from using "long wings ... longest wings...." which is simply crap. Perhaps "The blah lacewing has the longest wings of all ... at x". Simple enough without the childlike repetition. Perhaps we need to start re-visiting each and every hook a third time. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:39, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::::*And yet you did not do that, but decided to vent here instead. Yes there was ONE long more then may have been needed, but bitching after the fact and insinuating that everyone else in the DYK process is incompetent is NOT appropriate, and its rude.--[[User:Kevmin|Kev]][[User talk:Kevmin|min]] [[Special:Contributions/Kevmin|§]] 20:42, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::*Don't worry, I'll be paying extra special attention to these incompetent hooks and those who promote them to the main page. It's about time this process started taking things seriously again. We had a surge in a quality a while ago when a few more people were carefully watching this process, seems like we need more eyes on it once again. By the way, if you can be bothered, you'd read my response above. I check the articles for quality control, but hooks ''should'' have gone through at least ''two'' other people before getting to the main page. I shouldn't have to perform a third check, but now it seems I should. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:43, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

: Why appalling? Lame? I like hooks about "the first", "the ___-est", "the most ___". --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 21:13, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::I'm talking about the repetition in each hook I mention. It's really poor writing. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 21:15, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::: Sounds cute to me, though. --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 21:22, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::::What does? The repetition? It sounds like piss-poor English to me. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 21:49, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::::: Not poetry, but passable. Get the point across alright. Please improve them as you see fit. --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 22:42, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:::::: Far from poetry, far from reasonable English on the homepage of the most visited encyclopaedia in history. Please read my previous comments that you seem to have missed. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 22:48, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

* If we're playing [[Just a Minute]] then notice that the FA blurb at the time repeated the words "storm" and "hurricane" five times each. But we needn't worry too much about FA and DYK as they are rotated every day and so any dull entries are resolved automatically. But ITN has been stuck with the same lead item for several days now. This almost exactly repeats [[Claud Cockburn]]'s notorious "Small earthquake in Peru, not many dead" which was the winner of a competition to find the most boring headline. Perhaps ITN has dried up and that's why TRM has come over here to spread joy and comfort. [[user:Andrew Davidson|Andrew D.]] ([[user talk:Andrew Davidson|talk]]) 06:55, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
*:What are you talking about? I've been working here for years. But you probably didn't notice that. The point remains, regardless of ''other'' problems, that we shouldn't be promoting such weak hooks. I would have thought you would have been in agreement considering this is an encyclopedia. But thanks for the veiled personal attack, duly noted. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 16:30, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

== Prep 4 ==

::''that the British plant pathologist Mary Glynne was the first woman to climb Mount Spencer in New Zealand?''
If "Mount Spencer" in New Zealand is so un-notable that we don't even have an article about it, why is the fact that a female plant pathologist climbing it first is considered of interest to anyone? [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:30, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::Yes, because wiki has articles on every notable land from on the planet already, and thus her accomplishment is not notable.</sarcasm> You are in a seriously bitch/whiny mood today. Please get off your horse. --[[User:Kevmin|Kev]][[User talk:Kevmin|min]] [[Special:Contributions/Kevmin|§]] 20:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Rather than focus on your hate for me, can you answer the original question please. What makes climbing a non-notable mountain notable? [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:45, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

::::Well, [[Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Dilys Glynne|Mary Dilys Glynne]] had two suggested hooks. {{u|Rosiestep}} recommended the nomination be set aside for March Women's History Month. We could always pull the hook and put it in a special holding area for March, but both Roseistep and the nominator {{u|Worm That Turned}} like the original hook. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 20:46, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

:::::Can someone answer the question please? What is notable about climbing a mountain that is considered non-notable such that we don't even have an article about it on Wikipedia? [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:51, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

::::::And that is why I pinged both Rosiestep and Worm That Turned. Over at WP Women, the first woman to do anything is considered significant enough for a hook. But the nominator and reviewer are the only two who can really answer your question. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 20:56, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

:::::::Well perhaps that's where WP Women need to broaden their horizons. If Mount Spencer is a mere hillock and Ms Glynne hopped upon it by chance, this isn't a hook worth anything. It should be pulled until we see the actual significance of the article-less Mount Spencer. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:59, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

:::::::: Pulling it from {{prep|4}} may not be a bad idea. This will give people time to come up with a better hook. --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 21:19, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

::::::::: Pull it if you wish. But WP Women needs to "broaden their horizons"? What? This isn't just about WP Women; let's add WP Geography into the convo. Is there a rule that landforms must have their own article or not be mentioned in a hook? It appears that Mount Spencer exists.[http://atojs.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/atojs?a=d&d=AJHR1930-I.2.3.2.2&cl=&srpos=0&e=-------10--1------0--&st=1][http://peakery.com/mount-spencer-new-zealand/][https://books.google.com/books?id=53sBAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA20][https://books.google.com/books?id=gCZAAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA103][http://www.aucklandartgallery.com/explore-art-and-ideas/artwork/9133/lake-tarawera-and-mount-spencer] I had considered writing the article about it at the time I reviewed the nom, but then I figured, meh, someone else will probably come along and do so, someone who has access to sources which I can't access. As for whether the hook appears in February or March, either is fine; but I recommended March because of WHM. --[[User:Rosiestep|Rosiestep]] ([[User talk:Rosiestep|talk]]) 21:26, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

::::::::::{{u|Rosiestep}}, I just pulled it and put it in special holding for Women's History Month where both you and {{u|Worm That Turned}} wanted it in the first place. [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 21:28, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

::::::::::: {{u|Maile66}}, thank you! I liked ALT1, too, except that the source said she was in her 60s (not specifically that she 68). --[[User:Rosiestep|Rosiestep]] ([[User talk:Rosiestep|talk]]) 21:33, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

:::::::::::: I was answering Maile66's point, only WP Women was mentioned as being part of the DYK nomination process, there was no mention of WP Geography looking to see this at DYK. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 21:48, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

::::::::::: Looking forward to reading about Mount Spencer soon. ''Viva la DYK.'' --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 22:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

:::::::::::: Feel free to create [[Mount Spencer (New Zealand)]] whenever convenient. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 22:49, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:Apologies, I'm not really around at the minute, so can't help much. I believe Mount Spencer is notable - but hasn't had an article yet - much of the New Zealand mountain range doesn't, possibly because Wikipedia is populated by the geographic North. Not that that's the point. Happy that the article is held until Women's History Month, I don't really mind either way. [[User:Worm That Turned|''Worm'']]TT([[User talk:Worm That Turned|talk]]) 13:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
::I read this yesterday and composed multiple answers, none of which could be posted. The very fact that less that 16% of the biographies on WP are about women belies the accuracy of the statement "so un-notable that we don't even have an article about it". Perhaps the facts that editathons have been held since last June on leadership, architecture, science, religion, music and black women's history shows a concerted effort by WP Women to broaden the scope of WP in general? Perhaps the first PERSON to do anything is significant enough for a hook, but that doesn't change the fact that there must be sufficient RS to create an article for WP. The biases shown in this conversation alone show how very far WP has to go to be an inclusive environment. DYK periodically becomes an extremely hostile environment and that really needs to stop. Maybe just maybe, instead of insulting each other, in phrases such as "this isn't a hook worth anything" or the assumption that all people have a singular mind, proposing alternatives would be more in the spirit of what the encyclopedia intends? [[User:SusunW|SusunW]] ([[User talk:SusunW|talk]]) 16:58, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
:::From my perspective, it was obvious that to benefit our readers we create an article about Mount Spencer so that claiming someone to be the first to climb it has some context, that it was, in fact, a notable achievement. That's all. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 17:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

==Women's hooks==
Note to prep builders: The [[WP:Women in Red]] project is busy churning out literally thousands of new articles about women. Many (not all!) are making their way to DYK. I think it's important to start using them in prep sets, and not running sets with less than 50% bios. I've also moved a number of approved black women hooks to the Special Occasion holding area for [[Black History Month]] (February) – these hooks should also be promoted, one or two per prep set, if we want to keep up with the deluge. [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 00:08, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
==Prep 3==
I have changed the approved and promoted hook for [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Amritabindu_Upanishad Amritabindu Upanishad] in Prep 3 by substituting "six-limbed" in the hook on the place of "five-limbed". Please could somebody else check that this is correct. [[User:Cwmhiraeth|Cwmhiraeth]] ([[User talk:Cwmhiraeth|talk]]) 09:08, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

== OTRS pending an image dealbreaker? ==

{{ping|Jolly Janner}} Hi. I noticed you [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know/Preparation_area_1&diff=703827939&oldid=703827376 removed] the image for the [[Pocket FM]] hook because "in its current state, this picture is completely unsuitable for use on Main Page". I presume that's because it's currently tagged as OTRS pending? Is that an automatic deal-breaker for DYK (and, I presume, other areas of the main page)? The permission was sent in two weeks ago, in advance of the nomination. The time it takes varies, of course, but it's not the case that it's simply uploaded with no context. In fact I could forward the permission email to you, if necessary. I guess it's not a huge deal -- I just think that image is better suited for DYK than the replacement image (and, selfishly, it's just the first time I've had a nom with an image that was suited for DYK :) ). — <tt>[[User:Rhododendrites|Rhododendrites]] [[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</tt> \\ 16:51, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
:Images need to have the sourcing clearly identified. This image doesn't as of yet and also has no file description. It gave me the overall feeling that it was incomplete. I'm not sure if there is a way to fast-track images needing OTRS approval, because they are candidates for the Main Page. Other than that, it would be a suitable image. '''[[User:Jolly Janner|Jolly]] [[Special:Contributions/Jolly Janner|Ω]] [[User talk:Jolly Janner|Janner]]''' 18:57, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
::The OTRS approval is indeed required. [[User:BlueMoonset|BlueMoonset]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonset|talk]]) 19:10, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Wir müssen durch viel Trübsal, BWV 146

2015-10-10T07:10:46Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Movement 8 of BWV 146 has the same music as Movement 7 of BWV 246 "Stille, stille! ist die Losung" */ new section

{{Classical|composition=yes}}
{{Germany}}
{{dyktalk|15 May|2011|entry=... that [[Johann Sebastian Bach|Bach]] superimposed voice parts to the "deeply moving slow movement" of his [[Harpsichord concertos (J. S. Bach)|Harpsichord Concerto]] in his [[Bach cantata|cantata]] '''''[[Wir müssen durch viel Trübsal, BWV 146]]''''', for [[Jubilate Sunday|Jubilate]]?}}

== closing chorale text question ==

The '''History and words''' section explains that this
Bach cantata has surviving music but not text for the final chorale .
In the '''scoring and structure''' section , the final chorale text is listed as an option 
: 8. Chorale: ''Denn wer selig dahin fähret'' '''or''' ''Ach, ich habe schon erblicket'' 
However , looking at the 6 example recordings at the bottom of the article page , I found 
''Denn wer selig dahin fähret'' seems to be listed for 
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005JRAX3S/ Harnoncourt (Teldec)]
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4B58W2/ Leusink ]
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003GGII1S/ Rilling ] and
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040T9LBQ Gardiner ] while
''Freu dich sehr, o meine Seele'' seems to be performed by
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QR71RC/ Koopman ] and
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002QLYP02/ Suzuki ]

I didn't find any version of bwv146 using the chorale text 
''Ach, ich habe schon erblicket'' , 
although it appears as the text for the closing chorale of
[[ Ach! ich sehe, itzt, da ich zur Hochzeit gehe, BWV 162 | bwv162 ]]

wikipedia editors may want to check and correct (if needed)
the text line for the closing chorale of bwv146 , perhaps by this 
: 8. Chorale: ''Denn wer selig dahin fähret'' '''or''' ''Freu dich sehr, o meine Seele''

if they agree with my suspicions .
I do not have the "suggested" hymn text from ''Lasset ab von euren Tränen''
unless by chance it is ''Denn wer selig dahin fähret'' as shown
[http://books.google.com/books?id=m9JuwslMcq4C&pg=PA313 in this book by Alfred Durr] ,
similar to ref.1 from the article page . If that is the "suggested" text ,
shouldn't the '''History and words''' section say so explicitly ?

[[Special:Contributions/70.106.152.64|70.106.152.64]] ([[User talk:70.106.152.64|talk]]) 04:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC) mgt220 a yahoo,com

:Thank you, I tried, --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 11:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Focusing on the question of where ''Denn wer selig dahin fähret''
came from ... [http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Texts/BWV146-Spa7.htm this page ]
lists a reference
[http://www.uvm.edu/~classics/faculty/bach/BWV146.html English-1]
by Z. Philip Ambrose , stating in part (re-arranged by me , in 2 parts :)

8. Chorale (S, A, T, B)," 1658 (Fischer-Tümpel, I, #309).

[Ah, I have already witnessed
This enormous majesty;
Now shall I have fine adornment
In the shining robe of heav'n;
With the golden crown of honor
I shall stand before God's throne then,
And shall such great gladness see,
Which can never have an end.](4)

4. The text supplied by Neumann T. using
Johann Rosenmüller or Johann Georg Albinus,
verse 7 of "Alle Menschen müssen sterben," 1652 (Fischer-Tümpel, IV, #311);

I think this is the chorus ''Ach, ich habe schon erblicket''
that none of the complete Cantata collections recorded -
[http://www.emmanuelmusic.org/notes_translations/translations_cantata/t_bwv146.htm check here ] - (and part 2 :)

[For who blessed passeth thither,
Where no death will knock again,
He shall all those things obtain then
That he ever could desire.
He'll be in that stronghold sure
Where God his own dwelling hath,
He'll have in that mansion lodging
Which no misery afflicteth.](5)

5. The text supplied by Wustmann.
by Gregorius Richter, verse 9 of Lasset ab von euren Tränen

which seems quite similar to the google translation of
''Denn wer selig dahin fähret'' ... and subsequent text ,
and also is close to the English text on p.313 of the
book by Alfred Durr I cited yesterday

That evidence seems to indicate that ''Denn wer selig dahin fähret''
did come from the Hymn ''Lasset ab von euren Tränen'' , and was
suggested by Wustmann . Is this evidence sufficient for an explicit
statement to be included in the '''History and words''' section ?

Note that there is a Rudolph Wustmann listed as co-author with Werner Neumann
as ref.4 on the page for [[Wer da gläubet und getauft wird, BWV 37 | bwv037]] .
(could that book have been part of the [[Neue Bach-Ausgabe | new Bach Edition ]]
which Werner Neumann was an editor of ?)

Whether Alfred Durr merely mentioned it as one of two good choices ,
or "suggested it" himself , I leave to the editors .

[[Special:Contributions/70.106.152.64|70.106.152.64]] ([[User talk:70.106.152.64|talk]]) 20:39, 21 November 2013 (UTC) mgt220 a yahoo,com

== Movement 8 of BWV 146 has the same music as Movement 7 of BWV 246 "Stille, stille! ist die Losung" ==

Am I the first to notice this? If there were not there no lyrics for the closing chorale, maybe it was sung with the lyrics for "Stille, stille! ist die Losung". Also, it is said that Bach did not write BWV 246, but copied it from an anonymous author. It makes me wonder if Bach wrote movement 8 of BWV 146. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 07:10, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Fried egg

2015-07-05T18:08:41Z

Parthian Scribe: /* United States and Canada */

{{For|the suspected meteor crater|Fried Egg structure}}
{{Use dmy dates|date=May 2015}}
{{refimprove|date=September 2010}}
[[File:Flickr - cyclonebill - Vagtel-spejlæg.jpg|right|thumb|Fried eggs in a cast iron pan]]
[[File:Fried egg 1 bg 20090705.jpg|right|thumb|Zucchini gratin topped with a fried egg, goat's cheese, and fried basil]]
[[File:pecena jaja1.jpg|thumb|right|Fried eggs served with [[Vegeta (food)|Vegeta spice]] in [[Croatia]]]]
A '''fried egg''' is a cooked dish commonly made using a fresh hen's [[Egg (food)|egg]], [[frying|fried]] whole with minimal accompaniment. Fried eggs are traditionally eaten for [[breakfast]] in English-speaking countries, but may also be served at other times of the day.

==Regional adaptations and specialities==

===Egypt===
In [[Egypt]], fried eggs are a common breakfast food. They are prepared plain, with [[vegetable oil]] or native [[butter]] or [[ghee]] only, or have one or more additions. These typically include [[tomato]]es, various types of cheeses, beef sausage (both the thin fresh type, and the larger dried [[sucuk]] type), [[Pastirma|bastirma]], or specially prepared [[Ground meat|minced meat]] with onions and spices; they may also be served with [[ful medames]] (slow-cooked [[fava bean]]s). Less frequently encountered are "star eggs", a dish somewhat similar to a [[Scotch egg]] prepared by deep frying a breaded [[boiled egg]] in vegetable oil.

===Germany, Austria, and Switzerland===
Fried eggs (''{{lang|de|Spiegeleier}}'') are a crucial part of such traditional German dishes as ''{{lang|de|[[Strammer Max]]}}'' (the egg is fried on one side with an unbroken yolk, and served "sunny-side up" on top of an open ham sandwich) or ''{{lang|de|Hamburger Schnitzel}}'' / ''{{lang|de|Holsteiner Schnitzel}}'' / ''Fernfahrerschnitzel'' ("trucker's schnitzel") – a similarly prepared fried egg served on a ''{{lang|de|[[Wiener Schnitzel]]}}''.

Fried eggs over (or side-by-side with) pan-fried potatoes is another common dish, sometimes served with spinach as a third component of the meal. Some German cooks break the yolk and distribute it across the surface of the white during the frying.

All of the above are typically lunch, rather than breakfast, dishes, although fried eggs themselves (like boiled or scrambled eggs) are a common part of a German breakfast.

===India===
In [[India]], fried eggs are most commonly called "poached," but are sometimes also known as bullseyes, as a reference to "bullseye" targets, or "half-boil" in Southern India, indicating that they are partly cooked, even though it's a fried egg. They are commonly served alone or as accompaniment to a variety of dishes including [[roti]], [[dosa]], or [[paratha]]. with a variety of oils such as [[mustard oil]] and [[vegetable oil]]. During or after the frying stage, they are sometimes sprinkled lightly with condiments such as [[black pepper]], [[chili powder]], [[Chili pepper|green chili]]s and salt. Bullseyes are a common street vendor dish in South India. Some restaurants also refer to them as "egg fry" (over hard) or "egg half fry" (sunny-side up).

In central and northern India's English-speaking middle classes and mid-level restaurants, "single-fried" refers to sunny side up and "double-fried" to over hard. Street food parlance uses "half-fry" as a base term with "half fry bina palti" (un-flipped) meaning sunny side up and "half fry palti maarke" or "alti palti" (flipped) meaning over easy/medium/hard where the customer oversees the flip and says when.

===Japan===
Called "medama yaki" (目玉焼き, lit.: cooked like eyeball), fried eggs are usually made sunny-side up. They may be served with salt and pepper, or soy sauce.

===Korea===
Eggs are fried in [[cooking oil]], sometimes with a sprinkle of salt. It is common to put a fried egg on top of ''{{lang|ko-Latn|[[bibimbap]]}}'' or ''{{lang|ko-Latn|[[Kimchi bokkeumbap]]}}''. Sometimes, rice dishes, such as ''{{lang|ko-Latn|bokkeumbap}}'', are simply made by applying a fried egg on a top of a bowl of hot rice, drizzled with a spoonful of ''{{lang|ko-Latn|[[gochujang]]}}'' and [[sesame oil]]. Occasionally, [[sodium chloride|salt]] is added to fried eggs, and served as ''{{lang|ko-Latn|[[Banchan]]}}'', which refers to small dishes of food served along with [[Bap (food)|bap]].

===Netherlands===
[[File:Uitsmijter bacon kaas.jpg|upright|thumb|A [[Netherlands|Dutch]] ''{{lang|nl|uitsmijter spek en kaas}}'': fried eggs with bacon and cheese]]

In the [[Netherlands]], a fried egg (''{{lang|nl|spiegelei}}'') is normally served on top of a slice of bread (white or whole wheat), often with fried bacon, for breakfast or lunch.<ref>C. Countess van Limburg Stirum: The Art of Dutch Cooking; First published in 1962 by Andre Deutsch Limited, London; 2nd edition, p.45)</ref>

An ''{{lang|nl|uitsmijter}}'' is a dish consisting of two or three fried eggs, sunny-side up. One version is fried together with ham and cheese (''{{lang|nl|uitsmijter ham en kaas}}'') or bacon and cheese (''{{lang|nl|uitsmijter spek en kaas}}''). Another version is placed on buttered bread over a generous slice of cold meat, e.g., cooked beef or ham, and usually garnished with a dill pickle. It is a common lunch dish served in many [[café]]s, [[lunch room]]s and canteens in the Netherlands. ''{{lang|nl|Uitsmijter}}'' literally means "thrower-out", and it is also the [[Dutch language|Dutch]] word for a [[bouncer (doorman)|"bouncer"]]. The Dutch name of this fried egg dish probably refers more to the fact that it is quickly made ("thrown out of the kitchen" so to speak) than to the similarly named doorman.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.thedutchtable.com/2011/04/uitsmijter-ham-cheese-and-egg-sandwich.html |title=Uitsmijter |publisher=The Dutch Table |date=3 April 2011 |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref>

===Russia===
[[Image:Eggs 20072007.jpg|thumb|left|''{{lang|ru-Latn|Yaichnitsa}}'']]

The two most popular fried egg dishes commonly eaten in Russia are ''{{lang|ru-Latn|yaichnitsa}}'' (Russian: {{lang|ru|яичница}}, a generic term for pure fried eggs, and ''omlet'' (Russian: {{lang|ru|омлет}}), an [[omelet]] distinguished from simple eggs by addition of milk and/or other liquids.

Yaichnitsa has two main varieties, a ''{{lang|ru-Latn|glazoon'ja}}'' (Russian: {{lang|ru|глазунья}}), usually referring to the sunny-side up but generally meaning any variant with the unbroken yolk, and a scramble called ''{{lang|ru-Latn|boltunya}}'' (Russian: {{lang|ru|болтунья}}), which may have various toppings such as fried [[bacon]], [[ham]], [[salt pork]] or other [[cold cuts]], [[fried bread]] or onion, vegetables, etc. added. A common way of preparing both types is to have multiple eggs cracked into a saucepan or frying pan and cooked without flipping. The whites flow together and individual portions are divided up after the whole pan-full has cooked.

===Southeast Asia===
[[File:Indomie Mie Goreng Iga Penyet 2.JPG|thumb|right|[[Mie goreng]] topped with fried egg and vegetable]]
[[File:Yam khai dao.JPG|thumb|right|''Yam khai dao'': A spicy and sour [[Thai salad]] made with fried eggs]]
[[File:Spam Meal.jpg|right|thumb|right|Fried [[Spam (food)|Spam]] with rice and eggs is a common meal in the Philippines]]
[[Nasi goreng]], one of the most popular dishes in [[Cuisine of Indonesia|Indonesia]], [[Cuisine of Malaysia|Malaysia]], [[Cuisine of Singapore|Singapore]] and [[Cuisine of Brunei|Brunei]] is often served with a fried egg, either ''setengah matang'' which is half cooked with still runny yolk or ''matang'' which is well done. In [[Indonesian language|Indonesian]], sunny side fried eggs is called ''telur mata sapi'' whichs translated as "bull's eye egg". Fried eggs is a popular topping for dishes such as [[mie goreng]], either freshly prepared noodle or cooked from [[instant noodle]] [[Indomie Mi goreng]].

In the [[Cuisine of the Philippines|Philippines]], fried eggs are often cooked like a sunny-side egg but the yolk is half cooked by sprinkling it with salt and oil while being fried, giving it a distinctive pink-colored membrane. It is served in the morning with garlic rice and a choice of breakfast meat such as beef [[Tapa (Filipino cuisine)|''tapa'']], [[Longaniza#Philippines|longaniza]], fried milkfish, dried fish, ''[[tocino]]'' (caramelised pork), [[Spam (food)|Spam]], or [[corned beef]], such as in [[tapsilog]] and its variants. In addition, fried eggs are eaten in a dish called [[Arroz a la cubana]], which is seasoned ground beef with raisins, cubed potatoes, tomato sauce, and olives, along with white rice and fried ripe plantains. Fried eggs are also a main ingredient in the noodle dish Pancit Batil Patong, where a fried egg is topped over stir-fried noodles.

In [[Thai cuisine]], when the words ''{{lang|th-Latn|khai dao}}'' (lit. "star egg") are placed after the name of a dish, it means that one wants that dish accompanied by a fried egg. The very popular ''{{lang|th-Latn|kaphrao mu rat khao khai dao}}'' for instance, translates to "basil fried pork on top of rice with a fried egg". Sometimes this is referred to as a "top egg".<ref>{{cite web|author=|url=http://athomeinthailand.com/eating-out/kra-pao-moo-stir-fry-pork-with-basil-for-lunch/ |title=Kra Pao Moo (stir fry pork with basil) for lunch |publisher=Athomeinthailand.com |date=29 September 2011 |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref> Fried rice is also popularly accompanied with a fried egg, such as with ''[[American fried rice|khao phat Amerikan]]'' and ''[[Thai fried rice|khao phat]]'' (standard Thai style fried rice).<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.austinbushphotography.com/blog/khao-phat-amerikan.html |title=Khao phat Amerikan |publisher=Austin Bush Photography |date=16 March 2011 |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|author=Kodi |url=http://kodikassell.blogspot.nl/ |title=A "Farangs" trek through a Culture of Food and the Unknown- Thailand |publisher=Kodikassell.blogspot.nl |date= |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref> Another popular way of eating fried eggs in Thailand is to use it as the main ingredient of the [[Thai salad]] called ''yam khai dao''.<ref>{{cite web|author=|url=http://www.shesimmers.com/2009/12/thai-spicy-fried-egg-salad.html |title=Thai Fried Egg Salad – Yam Khai Dao (ยำไข่ดาว) |publisher=SheSimmers |date=1 December 2009 |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref>

A fried egg served over white rice, topped with a dab of [[Oyster sauce|oyster]] or [[hoisin sauce]], is also popular in east Asia. Fried eggs are also sometimes used in a [[Vietnamese cuisine|Vietnamese]] [[Banh Mi|breakfast roll]].

===Spain, Italy, Portugal and Latin America===
Spanish painter [[Diego Velázquez]] painted a portrait of an elderly lady frying eggs in 1618.<ref>[[:es:Vieja friendo huevos|Spanish painter Velázquez painted a portrait of an elderly lady frying eggs in 1618]]</ref> In Spain, a fried egg served with boiled rice covered in tomato sauce is called [[arroz a la cubana]] Also served in Parts of Italy (so-called occhio di bue - Ox's eye) and Portugal. 'as well as the Philippines"

In Brazil, a runny egg placed over a steak with a side dish of rice and black beans is called a ''{{lang|pt-BR|[[bife a cavalo]]}}'', literally "horse-riding steak". A similar dish, with the name ''{{lang|es|bife a caballo}}'' in Spanish, is also common in Argentina, Uruguay and Ecuador (called "churrasco"); fried [[potato]]es and salad replace the beans and rice. In northern [[Mexico]], ''{{lang|es-MX|Huevos Montados}}'' (riding eggs) are served with [[refried beans]] and fried potatoes (or french fries). A common method of serving eggs in Mexico is ''{{lang|es-MX|huevos a la Mexicana}}'', which blends fried eggs with diced tomato, onion and green chili pepper; the amount of pepper added is often to order. There are several other egg dishes in Mexico which combine different ingredients: ''{{lang|es-MX|motuleños}}'' (in Yucatán), ''{{lang|es-MX|aporreados}}'' (mixed with refried beans), and ''{{lang|es-MX|[[huevos rancheros]]}}'' (sunny-side up eggs served over a corn [[tortilla]], covered with spicy salsa). Also, in some parts of Mexico, fried eggs are served with a fresh tomato, onions, and [[cilantro]] salsa. Red chili is optional, as is a blended sauce. In Peru and Chile, a fried egg is included in ''{{lang|es-CL|[[Lomo a lo Pobre|lomo a lo pobre]]}}'', ''{{lang|es-CL|[[Chorrillana]]}}'', ''{{lang|es-CL|[[Paila de Huevo]]}}'', and several other dishes. In Ecuador, a sunny-side up egg is served over pan-seared cheesy mashed potatoes and sausage, called "Llagingachos."

===UK and Ireland===
[[File:Lyme Regis harbour 02b.JPG|thumb|right|This traditional [[Full breakfast#England|full English breakfast]] includes bacon, fried egg, black pudding, grilled tomatoes, fried mushrooms, hash browns (not traditional), baked beans and sausages.]]
Fried eggs can be served on [[toast]], or in a sandwich, with [[bacon]], [[sausage]]s, and a variety of condiments. It is also an essential part of the [[full breakfast]] commonly eaten in Britain and Ireland. Fried eggs are often served with [[ham]] or [[Bacon|gammon]] steak as a popular [[pub grub]] meal. They are usually [[Cooking|cooked]] without turning over. The egg is cooked on a high heat and hot fat is splashed onto the top of the egg. This results in a custard-like yolk with a cooked surface.
May also be referred to as runny or hard.

===United States and Canada===
North Americans use many different terms to describe fried eggs, including:
*''Sunny side up'' — Cooked on one side only until the egg white is set but the yolk remains liquid. This is often known simply as ''eggs up''.{{citation needed|date=April 2014}} Gently splashing the hot cooking oil or fat on the sunny side uncooked white, i.e., [[Basting (cooking)|basting]], may be done to thoroughly cook the white. Covering the frying pan with a lid during cooking (optionally adding a cover and half-teaspoon of water just before finishing) allows for a less "runny" egg, and is an alternative method to flipping for cooking an egg over easy (this is occasionally called "sunny side down" or "basted").
*''Over easy'' or ''over light'' — Cooked on both sides; the yolk is runny and the egg white is fully cooked. "Over easy" fried eggs are also commonly referred to as "dippy eggs" or "dip eggs" by Marylanders, by [[Pennsylvania Dutch]] persons living in central [[Pennsylvania]], and by those living around them, mainly due to the practice of dipping toast into the yolk while eating.
*''Over medium'' — Cooked on both sides; the yolk is cooked through but soft and near liquid at the center. The egg white is thoroughly cooked.
*''Over well'' — Cooked on both sides with the yolk fully cooked through and hard. Similar to a hard-boiled egg.
*''Over hard'', also known simply as ''fried'' — Cooked on both sides with the yolk broken, until set or hard.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/16990/can-someone-please-give-an-explanation-of-different-egg-preparations|title=Can someone please give an explanation of different egg preparations?|work=stackexchange.com}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.kitchenriffs.com/2012/05/fried-eggs.html|title=Kitchen Riffs: Fried Eggs|work=kitchenriffs.com}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.home-ec101.com/the-great-fried-egg-tutorial/|title=How to Fry an Egg|author=Heather Solos|work=Home Ec 101}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.eggs.ca/eggs101/view/7/how-to-fry-the-perfect-egg|title=Eggs 101|work=Eggs.ca}}</ref>

==Egg in the basket==
[[File:Making eggs in basket.jpg|thumb|right|Eggs in the basket]]

{{Main|Egg in the basket}}

This American dish is usually made by cutting a circle or other shape out of a slice of bread, often using a drinking glass or biscuit cutter. The bread is fried until brown on one side and then flipped and an egg is broken into the center and seasoned, usually with [[edible salt|salt]] and [[black pepper|pepper]], and sometimes [[herb]]s. The pan is then covered and the egg is cooked until the white is just set. The cutout center of the bread is often fried as well and served alongside or on top of the finished egg.

==See also==
{{portal|Food}}
*[[List of egg dishes]]

==References==
{{Reflist|30em}}

==External links==
* {{Cookbook-inline|Fried Eggs}}
* {{Commons category-inline|Fried eggs}}

{{Eggs}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Fried Egg}}
[[Category:Egg dishes]]

Fried egg

2015-07-05T18:08:19Z

Parthian Scribe: /* United States and Canada */

{{For|the suspected meteor crater|Fried Egg structure}}
{{Use dmy dates|date=May 2015}}
{{refimprove|date=September 2010}}
[[File:Flickr - cyclonebill - Vagtel-spejlæg.jpg|right|thumb|Fried eggs in a cast iron pan]]
[[File:Fried egg 1 bg 20090705.jpg|right|thumb|Zucchini gratin topped with a fried egg, goat's cheese, and fried basil]]
[[File:pecena jaja1.jpg|thumb|right|Fried eggs served with [[Vegeta (food)|Vegeta spice]] in [[Croatia]]]]
A '''fried egg''' is a cooked dish commonly made using a fresh hen's [[Egg (food)|egg]], [[frying|fried]] whole with minimal accompaniment. Fried eggs are traditionally eaten for [[breakfast]] in English-speaking countries, but may also be served at other times of the day.

==Regional adaptations and specialities==

===Egypt===
In [[Egypt]], fried eggs are a common breakfast food. They are prepared plain, with [[vegetable oil]] or native [[butter]] or [[ghee]] only, or have one or more additions. These typically include [[tomato]]es, various types of cheeses, beef sausage (both the thin fresh type, and the larger dried [[sucuk]] type), [[Pastirma|bastirma]], or specially prepared [[Ground meat|minced meat]] with onions and spices; they may also be served with [[ful medames]] (slow-cooked [[fava bean]]s). Less frequently encountered are "star eggs", a dish somewhat similar to a [[Scotch egg]] prepared by deep frying a breaded [[boiled egg]] in vegetable oil.

===Germany, Austria, and Switzerland===
Fried eggs (''{{lang|de|Spiegeleier}}'') are a crucial part of such traditional German dishes as ''{{lang|de|[[Strammer Max]]}}'' (the egg is fried on one side with an unbroken yolk, and served "sunny-side up" on top of an open ham sandwich) or ''{{lang|de|Hamburger Schnitzel}}'' / ''{{lang|de|Holsteiner Schnitzel}}'' / ''Fernfahrerschnitzel'' ("trucker's schnitzel") – a similarly prepared fried egg served on a ''{{lang|de|[[Wiener Schnitzel]]}}''.

Fried eggs over (or side-by-side with) pan-fried potatoes is another common dish, sometimes served with spinach as a third component of the meal. Some German cooks break the yolk and distribute it across the surface of the white during the frying.

All of the above are typically lunch, rather than breakfast, dishes, although fried eggs themselves (like boiled or scrambled eggs) are a common part of a German breakfast.

===India===
In [[India]], fried eggs are most commonly called "poached," but are sometimes also known as bullseyes, as a reference to "bullseye" targets, or "half-boil" in Southern India, indicating that they are partly cooked, even though it's a fried egg. They are commonly served alone or as accompaniment to a variety of dishes including [[roti]], [[dosa]], or [[paratha]]. with a variety of oils such as [[mustard oil]] and [[vegetable oil]]. During or after the frying stage, they are sometimes sprinkled lightly with condiments such as [[black pepper]], [[chili powder]], [[Chili pepper|green chili]]s and salt. Bullseyes are a common street vendor dish in South India. Some restaurants also refer to them as "egg fry" (over hard) or "egg half fry" (sunny-side up).

In central and northern India's English-speaking middle classes and mid-level restaurants, "single-fried" refers to sunny side up and "double-fried" to over hard. Street food parlance uses "half-fry" as a base term with "half fry bina palti" (un-flipped) meaning sunny side up and "half fry palti maarke" or "alti palti" (flipped) meaning over easy/medium/hard where the customer oversees the flip and says when.

===Japan===
Called "medama yaki" (目玉焼き, lit.: cooked like eyeball), fried eggs are usually made sunny-side up. They may be served with salt and pepper, or soy sauce.

===Korea===
Eggs are fried in [[cooking oil]], sometimes with a sprinkle of salt. It is common to put a fried egg on top of ''{{lang|ko-Latn|[[bibimbap]]}}'' or ''{{lang|ko-Latn|[[Kimchi bokkeumbap]]}}''. Sometimes, rice dishes, such as ''{{lang|ko-Latn|bokkeumbap}}'', are simply made by applying a fried egg on a top of a bowl of hot rice, drizzled with a spoonful of ''{{lang|ko-Latn|[[gochujang]]}}'' and [[sesame oil]]. Occasionally, [[sodium chloride|salt]] is added to fried eggs, and served as ''{{lang|ko-Latn|[[Banchan]]}}'', which refers to small dishes of food served along with [[Bap (food)|bap]].

===Netherlands===
[[File:Uitsmijter bacon kaas.jpg|upright|thumb|A [[Netherlands|Dutch]] ''{{lang|nl|uitsmijter spek en kaas}}'': fried eggs with bacon and cheese]]

In the [[Netherlands]], a fried egg (''{{lang|nl|spiegelei}}'') is normally served on top of a slice of bread (white or whole wheat), often with fried bacon, for breakfast or lunch.<ref>C. Countess van Limburg Stirum: The Art of Dutch Cooking; First published in 1962 by Andre Deutsch Limited, London; 2nd edition, p.45)</ref>

An ''{{lang|nl|uitsmijter}}'' is a dish consisting of two or three fried eggs, sunny-side up. One version is fried together with ham and cheese (''{{lang|nl|uitsmijter ham en kaas}}'') or bacon and cheese (''{{lang|nl|uitsmijter spek en kaas}}''). Another version is placed on buttered bread over a generous slice of cold meat, e.g., cooked beef or ham, and usually garnished with a dill pickle. It is a common lunch dish served in many [[café]]s, [[lunch room]]s and canteens in the Netherlands. ''{{lang|nl|Uitsmijter}}'' literally means "thrower-out", and it is also the [[Dutch language|Dutch]] word for a [[bouncer (doorman)|"bouncer"]]. The Dutch name of this fried egg dish probably refers more to the fact that it is quickly made ("thrown out of the kitchen" so to speak) than to the similarly named doorman.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.thedutchtable.com/2011/04/uitsmijter-ham-cheese-and-egg-sandwich.html |title=Uitsmijter |publisher=The Dutch Table |date=3 April 2011 |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref>

===Russia===
[[Image:Eggs 20072007.jpg|thumb|left|''{{lang|ru-Latn|Yaichnitsa}}'']]

The two most popular fried egg dishes commonly eaten in Russia are ''{{lang|ru-Latn|yaichnitsa}}'' (Russian: {{lang|ru|яичница}}, a generic term for pure fried eggs, and ''omlet'' (Russian: {{lang|ru|омлет}}), an [[omelet]] distinguished from simple eggs by addition of milk and/or other liquids.

Yaichnitsa has two main varieties, a ''{{lang|ru-Latn|glazoon'ja}}'' (Russian: {{lang|ru|глазунья}}), usually referring to the sunny-side up but generally meaning any variant with the unbroken yolk, and a scramble called ''{{lang|ru-Latn|boltunya}}'' (Russian: {{lang|ru|болтунья}}), which may have various toppings such as fried [[bacon]], [[ham]], [[salt pork]] or other [[cold cuts]], [[fried bread]] or onion, vegetables, etc. added. A common way of preparing both types is to have multiple eggs cracked into a saucepan or frying pan and cooked without flipping. The whites flow together and individual portions are divided up after the whole pan-full has cooked.

===Southeast Asia===
[[File:Indomie Mie Goreng Iga Penyet 2.JPG|thumb|right|[[Mie goreng]] topped with fried egg and vegetable]]
[[File:Yam khai dao.JPG|thumb|right|''Yam khai dao'': A spicy and sour [[Thai salad]] made with fried eggs]]
[[File:Spam Meal.jpg|right|thumb|right|Fried [[Spam (food)|Spam]] with rice and eggs is a common meal in the Philippines]]
[[Nasi goreng]], one of the most popular dishes in [[Cuisine of Indonesia|Indonesia]], [[Cuisine of Malaysia|Malaysia]], [[Cuisine of Singapore|Singapore]] and [[Cuisine of Brunei|Brunei]] is often served with a fried egg, either ''setengah matang'' which is half cooked with still runny yolk or ''matang'' which is well done. In [[Indonesian language|Indonesian]], sunny side fried eggs is called ''telur mata sapi'' whichs translated as "bull's eye egg". Fried eggs is a popular topping for dishes such as [[mie goreng]], either freshly prepared noodle or cooked from [[instant noodle]] [[Indomie Mi goreng]].

In the [[Cuisine of the Philippines|Philippines]], fried eggs are often cooked like a sunny-side egg but the yolk is half cooked by sprinkling it with salt and oil while being fried, giving it a distinctive pink-colored membrane. It is served in the morning with garlic rice and a choice of breakfast meat such as beef [[Tapa (Filipino cuisine)|''tapa'']], [[Longaniza#Philippines|longaniza]], fried milkfish, dried fish, ''[[tocino]]'' (caramelised pork), [[Spam (food)|Spam]], or [[corned beef]], such as in [[tapsilog]] and its variants. In addition, fried eggs are eaten in a dish called [[Arroz a la cubana]], which is seasoned ground beef with raisins, cubed potatoes, tomato sauce, and olives, along with white rice and fried ripe plantains. Fried eggs are also a main ingredient in the noodle dish Pancit Batil Patong, where a fried egg is topped over stir-fried noodles.

In [[Thai cuisine]], when the words ''{{lang|th-Latn|khai dao}}'' (lit. "star egg") are placed after the name of a dish, it means that one wants that dish accompanied by a fried egg. The very popular ''{{lang|th-Latn|kaphrao mu rat khao khai dao}}'' for instance, translates to "basil fried pork on top of rice with a fried egg". Sometimes this is referred to as a "top egg".<ref>{{cite web|author=|url=http://athomeinthailand.com/eating-out/kra-pao-moo-stir-fry-pork-with-basil-for-lunch/ |title=Kra Pao Moo (stir fry pork with basil) for lunch |publisher=Athomeinthailand.com |date=29 September 2011 |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref> Fried rice is also popularly accompanied with a fried egg, such as with ''[[American fried rice|khao phat Amerikan]]'' and ''[[Thai fried rice|khao phat]]'' (standard Thai style fried rice).<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.austinbushphotography.com/blog/khao-phat-amerikan.html |title=Khao phat Amerikan |publisher=Austin Bush Photography |date=16 March 2011 |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|author=Kodi |url=http://kodikassell.blogspot.nl/ |title=A "Farangs" trek through a Culture of Food and the Unknown- Thailand |publisher=Kodikassell.blogspot.nl |date= |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref> Another popular way of eating fried eggs in Thailand is to use it as the main ingredient of the [[Thai salad]] called ''yam khai dao''.<ref>{{cite web|author=|url=http://www.shesimmers.com/2009/12/thai-spicy-fried-egg-salad.html |title=Thai Fried Egg Salad – Yam Khai Dao (ยำไข่ดาว) |publisher=SheSimmers |date=1 December 2009 |accessdate=2 September 2012}}</ref>

A fried egg served over white rice, topped with a dab of [[Oyster sauce|oyster]] or [[hoisin sauce]], is also popular in east Asia. Fried eggs are also sometimes used in a [[Vietnamese cuisine|Vietnamese]] [[Banh Mi|breakfast roll]].

===Spain, Italy, Portugal and Latin America===
Spanish painter [[Diego Velázquez]] painted a portrait of an elderly lady frying eggs in 1618.<ref>[[:es:Vieja friendo huevos|Spanish painter Velázquez painted a portrait of an elderly lady frying eggs in 1618]]</ref> In Spain, a fried egg served with boiled rice covered in tomato sauce is called [[arroz a la cubana]] Also served in Parts of Italy (so-called occhio di bue - Ox's eye) and Portugal. 'as well as the Philippines"

In Brazil, a runny egg placed over a steak with a side dish of rice and black beans is called a ''{{lang|pt-BR|[[bife a cavalo]]}}'', literally "horse-riding steak". A similar dish, with the name ''{{lang|es|bife a caballo}}'' in Spanish, is also common in Argentina, Uruguay and Ecuador (called "churrasco"); fried [[potato]]es and salad replace the beans and rice. In northern [[Mexico]], ''{{lang|es-MX|Huevos Montados}}'' (riding eggs) are served with [[refried beans]] and fried potatoes (or french fries). A common method of serving eggs in Mexico is ''{{lang|es-MX|huevos a la Mexicana}}'', which blends fried eggs with diced tomato, onion and green chili pepper; the amount of pepper added is often to order. There are several other egg dishes in Mexico which combine different ingredients: ''{{lang|es-MX|motuleños}}'' (in Yucatán), ''{{lang|es-MX|aporreados}}'' (mixed with refried beans), and ''{{lang|es-MX|[[huevos rancheros]]}}'' (sunny-side up eggs served over a corn [[tortilla]], covered with spicy salsa). Also, in some parts of Mexico, fried eggs are served with a fresh tomato, onions, and [[cilantro]] salsa. Red chili is optional, as is a blended sauce. In Peru and Chile, a fried egg is included in ''{{lang|es-CL|[[Lomo a lo Pobre|lomo a lo pobre]]}}'', ''{{lang|es-CL|[[Chorrillana]]}}'', ''{{lang|es-CL|[[Paila de Huevo]]}}'', and several other dishes. In Ecuador, a sunny-side up egg is served over pan-seared cheesy mashed potatoes and sausage, called "Llagingachos."

===UK and Ireland===
[[File:Lyme Regis harbour 02b.JPG|thumb|right|This traditional [[Full breakfast#England|full English breakfast]] includes bacon, fried egg, black pudding, grilled tomatoes, fried mushrooms, hash browns (not traditional), baked beans and sausages.]]
Fried eggs can be served on [[toast]], or in a sandwich, with [[bacon]], [[sausage]]s, and a variety of condiments. It is also an essential part of the [[full breakfast]] commonly eaten in Britain and Ireland. Fried eggs are often served with [[ham]] or [[Bacon|gammon]] steak as a popular [[pub grub]] meal. They are usually [[Cooking|cooked]] without turning over. The egg is cooked on a high heat and hot fat is splashed onto the top of the egg. This results in a custard-like yolk with a cooked surface.
May also be referred to as runny or hard.

===United States and Canada===
North Americans use many different terms to describe fried eggs, including:
*''Sunny side up'' — Cooked on one side only until the egg white is set but the yolk remains liquid. This is often known simply as ''eggs up''.{{citation needed|date=April 2014}} Gently splashing the hot cooking oil or fat on the sunny side uncooked white, i.e., [[Basting (cooking)|basting]], may be done to thoroughly cook the white. Covering the frying pan with a lid during cooking (optionally adding a cover and half-teaspoon of water just before finishing) allows for a less "runny" egg, and is an alternative method to flipping for cooking an egg over easy (this is occasionally called "sunny side down" or "basted").
*''Over easy'' or ''over light'' — Cooked on both sides; the yolk is runny and the egg white is fully cooked. "Over easy" fried eggs are also commonly referred to as "dippy eggs" or "dip eggs" by Marylanders, by [[Pennsylvania Dutch]] persons living in central [[Pennsylvania]], and by those living around them, mainly due to the practice of dipping toast into the yolk while eating.
*''Over medium'' — Cooked on both sides; the yolk is cooked through but soft and near liquid at the center. The egg white is thoroughly cooked.
*''Over well'' — Cooked on both sides with the yolk fully cooked through and hard. Similar to a hard-boiled egg.
*''Over hard'' also known simply as ''fried'' — Cooked on both sides with the yolk broken, until set or hard.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/16990/can-someone-please-give-an-explanation-of-different-egg-preparations|title=Can someone please give an explanation of different egg preparations?|work=stackexchange.com}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.kitchenriffs.com/2012/05/fried-eggs.html|title=Kitchen Riffs: Fried Eggs|work=kitchenriffs.com}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.home-ec101.com/the-great-fried-egg-tutorial/|title=How to Fry an Egg|author=Heather Solos|work=Home Ec 101}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.eggs.ca/eggs101/view/7/how-to-fry-the-perfect-egg|title=Eggs 101|work=Eggs.ca}}</ref>

==Egg in the basket==
[[File:Making eggs in basket.jpg|thumb|right|Eggs in the basket]]

{{Main|Egg in the basket}}

This American dish is usually made by cutting a circle or other shape out of a slice of bread, often using a drinking glass or biscuit cutter. The bread is fried until brown on one side and then flipped and an egg is broken into the center and seasoned, usually with [[edible salt|salt]] and [[black pepper|pepper]], and sometimes [[herb]]s. The pan is then covered and the egg is cooked until the white is just set. The cutout center of the bread is often fried as well and served alongside or on top of the finished egg.

==See also==
{{portal|Food}}
*[[List of egg dishes]]

==References==
{{Reflist|30em}}

==External links==
* {{Cookbook-inline|Fried Eggs}}
* {{Commons category-inline|Fried eggs}}

{{Eggs}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Fried Egg}}
[[Category:Egg dishes]]

John Kiffmeyer

2015-04-25T18:00:41Z

Parthian Scribe: Raj Punjabi was the original drummer

{{BLP sources|date=July 2010}}
{{Infobox musical artist 
| name = John Kiffmeyer
| image = John Kiffmeyer 1990.png
| caption = Kiffmeyer in 1990 with Green Day
| background = non_vocal_instrumentalist
| birth_name =
| alias = Al Sobrante
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1969|07|11|mf=yes}}
| birth_place = [[California]], [[United States]]
| origin =
| instrument = [[Drum kit|Drums]]
| genre = [[Punk rock]]
| occupation = [[Musician]], [[Record producer|producer]]
| years_active = 1987–1995, 2015 (musician) 1995–present (producer)
| label =
| associated_acts = [[Green Day]], [[Isocracy (band)|Isocracy]]
| website =
| notable_instruments = [[Drums]]
}}

'''John Kiffmeyer''' (also known as '''Al Sobrante'''), (born July 11, 1969) is an American musician, best known as a previous drummer for the [[punk rock]] band [[Green Day]].<ref name="Kimpel2006">{{cite book|last=Kimpel|first=Dan|title=How they made it: true stories of how music's biggest stars went from start to stardom!|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=wDyd16CHUu4C&pg=PA47|accessdate=31 July 2010|date=1 May 2006|publisher=Hal Leonard Corporation|isbn=978-0-634-07642-8|page=47}}</ref> He was given his nickname in reference to his hometown, [[El Sobrante, California|El Sobrante]]. His work with Green Day resulted in about 961,000 albums sold, which are mostly from the compilation album ''[[1,039/Smoothed Out Slappy Hours]]''.

==Biography==
John Kiffmeyer was born in [[California]] on July 11, 1969. His first exposure in the punk scene was as the drummer of the band [[Isocracy (band)|Isocracy]]. The group was popular in the [[East Bay (San Francisco Bay Area)|East Bay]], and mainstays at the famed club, [[924 Gilman Street]].

However, Kiffmeyer is most well known for his time in [[Green Day]]. After the end of Isocracy, Kiffmeyer helped form Green Day. Because of his experience and knowledge of the underground community, Kiffmeyer was able to get the young band on its feet by placing calls to friends, among them prominent figure of the East Bay [[Larry Livermore]]. The first few performances took place at [[Contra Costa College]], where Kiffmeyer was a journalism student. On the strength of an early performance, Livermore vowed to release a Green Day record on his [[Lookout! Records]]. The group's first full-length effort, ''[[39/Smooth]]'', would feature a Kiffmeyer original, "I Was There", which documented the band at that place in time. Being a fan of [[Ozzy Osbourne]], it was he who inspired the mini-covers of some famous songs, such as "[[I Don't Know (Ozzy Osbourne song)|I Don't Know]]" by [[Ozzy Osbourne]] and "[[Sweet Home Alabama]]" by [[Lynyrd Skynyrd]] during the bridge of "Disappearing Boy," a practice that is still carried out today.

In 1990, he left the band to attend [[college]] at [[Humboldt State University]] in [[Arcata, California]]. Kiffmeyer later joined the band [[Ne'er Do Wells|The Ne'er Do Wells]], leaving abruptly in 1994. Following a stint with punk band [[The Ritalins]], he became manager of [[The Shruggs]] until their split. In 1998 he was the executive producer of ''The Great Lost Trouble Makers Album'' by [[The Troublemakers]], a garage band from [[Sacramento, California]].

He now lives in [[San Francisco, California]] and is married to experimental filmmaker and [[San Francisco State University]] professor Greta Snider. He works as a [[Director of Photography]], specializing in [[green screen]] and producing mainly commercial work.

On April 16th, 2015, Kiffmeyer joined [[Billie Joe Armstrong]] and [[Mike Dirnt]] for a reunion of Sweet Children as an opening act for Green Day at The House of Blues in Cleveland, Ohio.

==References==
{{Reflist}}

{{Green Day}}

{{Persondata 
| NAME = Kiffmeyer, John
| ALTERNATIVE NAMES = Al Sobrante
| SHORT DESCRIPTION = American musician
| DATE OF BIRTH = July 11, 1969
| PLACE OF BIRTH = [[California]], [[United States]]
| DATE OF DEATH =
| PLACE OF DEATH =
}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kiffmeyer, John}}
[[Category:1969 births]]
[[Category:20th-century American musicians]]
[[Category:American male musicians]]
[[Category:American punk rock drummers]]
[[Category:American record producers]]
[[Category:Green Day members]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:Musicians from the San Francisco Bay Area]]

[[hu:Al Sobrante]]

User:Parthian Scribe/sandbox

2014-11-25T02:50:56Z

Parthian Scribe:

{{User sandbox}}

<div class="hatnote relarticle mainarticle">Main article: [[Parthian Scribe/sandbox]]</div>
A

User:Parthian Scribe/sandbox

2014-11-25T02:49:06Z

Parthian Scribe:

{{User sandbox}}

<div class="hatnote relarticle mainarticle">Main article: [[Parthian Scribe/sandbox]]</div>

User:Parthian Scribe/sandbox

2014-11-25T02:48:20Z

Parthian Scribe: ←Created page with '{{User sandbox}}  {{subst:Main|a}}'

{{User sandbox}}

{{#invoke:main|main}}

Talk:LGBTQ rights opposition

2013-07-28T02:58:05Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Bias against conservatives */

{{Talk header}}
{{LGBTProject|class=C}}
{{WikiProject Conservatism}}
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{{tmbox|type=content|text=Please limit discussion on this page to proposed changes to the Gay rights opposition article only. This is not the place for discussions about Wikipedia policies or guidelines. All discussion unrelated to the article will be removed.}}
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== Boy Scouts section ==

The Scouts are a private company, the issue is a labor issue, and the impact on the homosexual community is marginal. 44 states do not permit "same sex marriage." That would seem to be a more substantive issue for an article on "rights opposition." This section is WP:UNDUE and should be removed. – [[user:Lionelt|Lionel]] ([[user talk:Lionelt|talk]]) 07:02, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:This section should stay becouse it deals with LGBT rights oposition. Private organisation or not is irrelevant. What is "homosexual community"?--''[[User:Wikiwind|В и к и в и н д]][[User talk:Wikiwind| T a L k]] 09:45, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::When placed in context with the totality of lgbt rights opposition in the US, marriage, adoption, military service, housing, artificial insemination, sex change operations, etc., where does the "right to be a Scoutmaster" fit in? – [[user:Lionelt|Lionel]] ([[user talk:Lionelt|talk]]) 10:18, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
:::You are certainly underselling it. The BSA is not just a "private company", they are a federally-chartered group. The issue is not just a "labor issue", they discriminate not just against their "labor" (paid or unpaid), but against their paying customers as well - not that labor discrimination should be considered unimportant. It is not just an internal issue, they have campaigned for and receive special government dispensation to discriminate without legal impact. I don't know of any specific way to measure their impact on not just those who would be or are scoutmasters, but those who would be or are scouts, and those who deal those who have been indoctrinated by the scouts.
:::Having said that, this section could and probably should be ''shorter''. Are there are topics that should also be covered here? Yes, and that should be addressed by expanding the coverage on them, not by eliminating the coverage on other issues. --[[User:NatGertler|Nat Gertler]] ([[User talk:NatGertler|talk]]) 15:43, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
::::What about refocusing on "accomodation"? And include other incidents such as that church that refused to allow lesbians to marry at it's waterfront gazebo--the particulars elude me at the moment. – [[user:Lionelt|Lionel]] ([[user talk:Lionelt|talk]]) 02:01, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

== Starting with the Nazis? ==

Just scanning the article right now however, does it strike anyone else that ''starting'' the body of the article with the Nazi German suppression of homosexuality suggests a rather biased approach to the subject?
:There's an issue with the scope of the article; we seem to waffle between general anti-gay laws and attitudes (eg. the "religious reasons" section) and movements that were specifically reactionary ("history" and "different countries"). The article identifies late 19thc. Germany as the earliest gay rights movement, meaning that moving from there into the repression of that movement isn't so unnatural, but I'm sure there were earlier movements and/or reactions that we could discuss if someone wanted to research. I do think we should limit the scope as much as possible to the reactionary stuff, though. –[[User:Roscelese|Roscelese]] ([[User talk:Roscelese|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Roscelese|contribs]]) 17:55, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

== Bias against conservatives ==

Hello there, I have noticed an extreme bias against conservatism in this article. It makes anyone on the right look like the bad guy. [[Wikipedia:Neutrality]].

[[User:MJWilliams1998|MJWilliams1998]] ([[User talk:MJWilliams1998|talk]]) 13:39, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

:I agree, and I am shocked that this comment has gone four months without notice. The bias in this article is so thick, you could cut it with a knife! Just in the lead section alone, "Such opposition can be motivated by heterosexism, homophobia, sexualism, transphobia, bigotry, prejudice, extreme political ideologies, or other factors." All moderate or reasonable objections are shoved off as "other factors" while prejudice and bigotry are portrayed as the main motives for such opinions. "The human rights and civil rights that LGBT rights opponents actively work towards the denial of recognition for may include..." Whether or not the things listed there can even be considered human or civil rights at all are at the forefront of the debate!
:[[User:He who Geezes|He who Geezes]] ([[User talk:He who Geezes|talk]]) 01:32, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
::Please offer specific proposals for edits that make the article less biased. Remember though, that we follow reliable sources, and simply reflect what they say with the same relative weight. - [[user: MrX|Mr]][[user talk:MrX|X]] 02:18, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
:This article is a disaster. It has a strong bias not just against conservatives, but against everyone who doesn't agree with all the goals of the LGBT rights movement. This article does not give a neutral or encyclopedic description of opposition to the LGBT rights movement, it parrots the views of a small group of very passionate and dedicated LGBT activist editors. I just want to read about opposition to the LGBT rights movement, I don't want to read the political views of the editors! [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 02:58, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

== Organization ==

What do people think of organizing this by forms of opposition? Not rationales, I mean, but eg. campaigns for criminalization, opposition to equal protection laws, etc. I think any layout has the potential for some redundancy (people in the US definitely use the same arguments and shoddy research to argue against marriage and against adoption), but the geographical organization and historical section both have tons of holes that might not present as much of a problem if the article were organized differently. –[[User:Roscelese|Roscelese]] ([[User talk:Roscelese|talk]] ⋅ [[Special:Contributions/Roscelese|contribs]]) 21:45, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

== Christian section missing ==

Just because there is a main article on Christianity and homosexuality (or, apparently, three... that is in itself not right, one of those should be considered the main article) doesn't mean that there should be no coverage here. Rather, the coverage here should be basically a summary of the relevant content from the main page. --[[User:NatGertler|Nat Gertler]] ([[User talk:NatGertler|talk]]) 18:41, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

LGBTQ rights in Iran

2013-05-15T06:36:45Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Transsexuality in Iran */

{{pp-move-indef}}
{{Infobox LGBT rights
| location_header = Iran
| image = Iran (orthographic projection).svg
| caption = [[Iran]]
| legal_status = Illegal: Islamic [[Sharia]] Law applied
| penalty = [[Image:Skull and crossbones.svg|30px|Death penalty]] [[Capital punishment|Death penalty]]
| gender_identity_expression = [[Sex reassignment surgery]] (male to female) provided free of charge by the government
| recognition_of_relationships =
| adoption =
| military =
| discrimination_protections = No
}}
'''[[LGBT]] rights in Iran''' since the [[Iranian Revolution]] of 1979 have come in conflict with the [[penal code]], with international [[human rights group]]s claiming [[Flagellation|floggings]] and death sentences of lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals.

[[Homosexuality]] is a crime punishable by imprisonment, [[corporal punishment]], or in some cases of [[sodomy]], even execution of the accused is legal under the laws of this country's government.<ref name=Ind/> Gay men have faced stricter enforcement actions under the law than lesbians.<ref name=SexChange/> Iran insists that it does not execute people for homosexuality, and those who have either committed rape, murder, or drug trafficking.<ref>http://www.sfbaytimes.com/index.php?sec=article&article_id=9170</ref>

In 2007, Iranian President [[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]], speaking to [[Columbia University]], said (through a translator) that "In [[Iran]], we don't have homosexuals", though a spokesperson later stated that his comments were misunderstood.<ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301043,00.html Ahmadinejad Says Comments About Gays Were Misunderstood]; [[Fox News]]; October 30, 2007; Retrieved on December 12, 2007</ref>

Any type of sexual activity outside a [[heterosexual]] marriage is forbidden. [[Transsexuality in Iran]] is legal if accompanied by a [[sex change operation]]; however, transsexuals still report societal intolerance as in most societies.<ref name=SexChange>[http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2008/08/26/f-homosexuality-iran-sex-change.html Iran's gay plan], Matthew Hays, ''[[Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]]'', August 26, 2008. Retrieved September 20, 2008.</ref>

==History of LGBT rights in Iran==
===Pre-Islamic period===
The history of homosexuality in Iran has been both influential and contradictory. The religion of [[Zoroastrianism]] in the country, which reached its peak under the [[Sassanids]], taught that all homosexuals (active or passive) are inherently demonic and as such they must be put to death{{citation needed|date=January 2012}} when detected. This condemnation seems to have made its way slowly against the much older Iranian tradition of [[polytheism]] and initiatory [[pederasty]], coming into sharp conflict during the [[Achaemenid]] period.

===Islam===
{{main|Homosexuality and Islam}}
Persia was conquered by the Arabs in A.D. 637, when Islam took over as the predominant faith. The Arabs were only superficially intolerant of homosexuality, and certainly the Koran specified no earthly punishment for homosexual behavior. Nevertheless, the devout Muslim was expected to know that God would be displeased. The outcome was a toleration and even celebration of pederasty in classical Islam, and much of the Arab poetry of this time is devoted to boys and their beauty. There is a significant amount of literature in Persian that explicitly illustrates the ancient existence of homosexuality among Iranians.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.glbtq.com/literature/mid_e_lit_persian.html |title=>> literature >> Middle Eastern Literature: Persian |publisher=glbtq |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> As a result, over a period of time the people of Persia once again moderated or reversed their earlier position.

In Persian poetry, references to sexual love can be found in addition to those of spiritual/religious love. A few [[ghazal]]s (love poems) and texts in [[Saadi (poet)|Saadi]]'s [[Bostan (book)|Bustan]] and [[Gulistan of Sa'di|Gulistan]] have been interpreted by Western readers as homoerotic poems. In some poems, Sa'di's beloved is a young man, not a beautiful woman. In this he followed the conventions of traditional Persian poetry. Sa'di's own attitude toward homosexuals was more negative than positive. In the Gulistan he stated, "If a Tatar slays that hermaphrodite / The Tatar must not be slain in return." Another story tells of the qazi of Hamdan whose affection towards a farrier-boy is condemned by his friends and the king, who eventually says: "Everyone of you who are bearers of your own faults / Ought not to blame others for their defects."<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/sadi.htm |title=Sa'di |publisher=Kirjasto.sci.fi |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

===20th century Iran===

Under the rule of [[Mohammad Reza Pahlavi]], the last monarch of the Pahlavi Dynasty, homosexuality was tolerated, even to the point of allowing news coverage of a same-sex wedding. In the late 1970s, some Iranians even began to talk about starting up a gay rights organization, similar to the [[Gay Liberation]] movement. Until the revolution, there were some night clubs in which gay behavior was tolerated. During the Shah's time, however, homosexuality was still taboo everywhere, and often one could not turn to family or friends for support and guidance. There were no public agencies to assist youth or people who were confused or questioning their sexuality.

[[Janet Afary]] has argued that the 1979 revolution was partly motivated by moral outrage against the Shah's regime, and in particular against a mock same-sex wedding between two young men with ties to the court. She says that this explains the virulence of the anti-homosexual oppression in Iran.<ref name="gaycitynews.com">[http://www.gaycitynews.com/gcn_432/iraniansourcesquestion.html ]{{Dead link|date=October 2010}}</ref>

===Post Islamic revolution===
The new religious government that came to be established after the [[1979 Iranian Revolution]] classed transsexuals and [[transvestites]] with gays and [[lesbian]]s, who were condemned by [[Islam]] and faced the punishment and imprisonment under Iran's [[penal code]]. In 1986, transsexuals were re-classified as being "hetrosexual".

On September 24, 2007, while speaking at [[Columbia University]], Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said, in answer to the question "Iranian women are now denied basic human rights and your government has imposed draconian punishments including execution on Iranian citizens who are homosexuals. Why are you doing those things?", "We don't have homosexuals, like in your country. I don't know who told you that."<ref name=autogenerated1>[http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/24/us.iran/index.html Ahmadinejad speaks; outrage and controversy follow – CNN.com]{{Dead link|date=October 2010}}</ref> An aide later said that he was misquoted and was actually saying that "compared to American society, we don't have many homosexuals". The aide further clarified that "because of historical, religious and cultural differences homosexuality is less common in Iran and the Islamic world than in the West".<ref name=autogenerated2>{{cite news|url=http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSBLA05294620071010 |title=President misquoted over gays in Iran: aide | International |publisher=Reuters |date=October 10, 2007 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

====Transsexuality in Iran====
{{Main|Transsexuality in Iran}}
Sex-change operations are allowed and performed frequently in Iran. Transsexual women in Iran may live as women until they have surgery, have surgical reassignment, have their birth certificates and all official documents issued to them in their new gender, and get married to men.

One early campaigner for transsexual rights is [[Maryam Hatoon Molkara]], who was formerly male and known as Fereydoon. Before the revolution, she had longed to become physically female but could not afford surgery. Furthermore, she wanted religious authorization. Since 1975, she had been writing letters to Ayatollah Khomeini, who was to become the leader of [[Iran]] and was in exile. After the revolution, she was fired, forcedly injected with male [[hormone]], and institutionalized. She was later released with help from her connection, and she kept lobbying many other leaders. Later she went to see Khomeini, who had returned to Iran. At first she was stopped and beaten by his guards, but eventually Khomeini gave her a letter to authorize her sex reassignment operation. The letter is later known as the [[fatwa]] that authorizes such operations in Iran.<ref>Robert Tait, [http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/07/28/iran_transsexuals/print.html A fatwa for transsexuals], and [http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1536658,00.html a similar article] on [[The Guardian]]. Gives details on Molkara's plea to Khomeni.</ref><ref>Frances Harrison, [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/4115535.stm Iran's sex-change operations], [[BBC]].</ref><ref>[[UNHCR]], ''[http://www.ecoi.net/pub/mv100_cois2001-irn.pdf Iran Country Report]'', 7th European Country of Origin Information Seminar Berlin, June 11–12, 2001 – Final report. Transsexual part is on pp. 104.</ref><ref>{{note|saf}}Safra Project [http://www.safraproject.org/Reports/SP_Country_Information_Report_Iran.pdf Country Information Report Iran].</ref><ref>2004 report, and consider UNHCR report underestimate the pressure. Mentions gender diversity on pp, 15.</ref>

==Legal status==

Since the 1979 Iranian revolution, the legal code has been based on Islamic [[Shari'a]] law. All sexual relations that occur outside a traditional, heterosexual marriage (i.e. sodomy or adultery) are illegal and no legal distinction is made between consensual or non-consensual sodomy. Homosexual relations that occur between consenting adults in private are a crime and carry a maximum punishment of death (though not generally implemented) Forced homosexual relations (rape) often results in execution. The death penalty is legal for those above 18, and if a murder was committed, legal at the age of 15. (see [[Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni]] whose ages were raised to 19 in court transcripts). Approved by the Iranian Parliament on 30/7/1991 and finally ratified by the Guardian Council on 28/11/1991, articles 108 through 140 distinctly talk about homosexuality and its punishments in detail: {{Citation needed|date=July 2008}}

===Male homosexuality===
Sodomy (lavat) can in certain circumstances be a crime for which both partners can in theory be punished by death. If the participants are adults, of sound mind and consenting; the method of execution is for the judge to decide. If one person is non-consenting (ex. a rape), the punishment would only apply to the rapist. A non-adult who engages in consensual sodomy is subject to a punishment of 74 lashes. (Articles 108 to 113) Sodomy is proved either if a person confesses four times to having committed sodomy or by the testimony of four righteous men. Testimony of women alone or together with a man does not prove sodomy, not out of any prejudice toward women, but to narrow down the list of possible death sentences handed down. (Articles 114 to 119). "If sodomy, or the lesser crimes referred to above, are proved by confession, and the person concerned repents, the [[Shari'a]] judge may request that he be pardoned. If a person who has committed the lesser crimes referred to above repents before the giving of testimony by the witnesses, the punishment is quashed. (Articles 125 and 126). The judge may punish the person for lesser crimes at his discretion.

===Female homosexuality===
The punishment for lesbianism (mosahegheh) involving persons who are mature, of sound mind, and consenting, is 50 lashes. If the act is repeated three times and punishment is enforced each time, the death sentence will apply on the fourth occasion. (Articles 127, 129, 130) The ways of proving lesbianism in court are the same as for male homosexuality. (Article 128) Non-Muslim and [[Muslim]] alike are subject to punishment (Article 130) The rules for the quashing of sentences, or for pardoning, are the same as for the lesser male homosexual offences (Articles 132 and 133) Women who "stand naked under one cover without necessity" and are not relatives may receive a punishment of 50 lashes. (Article 134)

==Application of laws==
At the discretion of the Iranian court, fines, prison sentences, and corporal punishment are usually carried out rather than the death penalty (unless the crime was a rape).

The charges of homosexuality and ''Lavat'' ([[sodomy]]) have in a few occasions been used in political crimes. Other charges are had been paired with the Lavat crime, such as rape or acts against the state, and convictions are obtained in grossly flawed trials. On March 14, 1994, famous dissident writer [[Ali Akbar Saidi Sirjani]] was charged with offenses ranging from drug dealing to espionage to homosexuality. He died in prison under mysterious circumstances.<ref>[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E03EFDE1330F93BA15752C1A962958260 Leading Dissident Writer in Iran Dies After 8 Months in Detention], ''[[New York Times]]'', November 1994. Retrieved September 20, 2008.</ref>

=== Capital punishment ===
{{main|Capital punishment in Iran}}
According to The Boroumand Foundation,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.abfiran.org/english/memorial.php |title=The Boroumand Foundation |publisher=Abfiran.org |date=December 10, 1998 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> there are records of at least 107 executions with charges related to homosexuality between 1979 and 1990.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.abfiran.org/english/memorial-search.php?do_search=Search&charges=1778515990&pagenum=0 |title=Search the Iran Human Rights Memorial, Omid – Boroumand Foundation for Human Rights in Iran |publisher=Abfiran.org |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> According to [[Amnesty International]], at least 5 people convicted of "homosexual tendencies", three men and two women, were executed in January 1990, as a result of the Iranian government's policy of calling for the execution of those who practice homosexuality.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.abfiran.org/english/person-12694.php |title=Un-named person (male) – Promoting Human Rights in Iran |publisher=Abfiran.org |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>
In April 1992, Dr. Ali Mozafarian, a Sunni Muslim leader in the Fars province (Southern Iran), was executed in Shiraz after being convicted on charges of espionage, adultery, and sodomy. His videotaped confession was broadcast on television in Shiraz and in the streets of [[Kazerun]] and [[Lar, Iran|Lar]].

On November 12, 1995, by the verdict of the eighth judicial branch of [[Hamadan]] and the confirmation of the Supreme Court of Iran, Mehdi Barazandeh, otherwise known as Safa Ali Shah Hamadani, was condemned to death. The judicial authorities announced that Barazandeh's crimes were repeated acts of adultery and "the obscene act of sodomy." The court's decree was carried out by stoning Barazandeh. Barazandeh belonged to the Khaksarieh Sect of Dervishes. (Islamic Republic Newspaper – November 14, 1995 + reported in Homan's magazine June 10, 1996).

In a November 2007 meeting with his British counterpart, Iranian member of parliament Mohsen Yahyavi admitted that Iran believes in the death penalty for homosexuality. According to Yahyavi, gays deserve to be tortured, executed, or both.<ref>[http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2859606.ece Gays should be hanged, says Iranian minister]; ''The Times'', November 13, 2007; Retrieved on April 1, 2008</ref>

On March 15, 2005, the daily newspaper Etemaad reported that the Tehran Criminal Court sentenced two men to death following the discovery of a video showing them engaged in homosexual acts. Another two men were allegedly hanged publicly in the northern town of [[Gorgan]] for sodomy rape acts in November 2005.<ref name=HRW2005>[http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005/11/21/iran12072.htm Iran: Two More Executions for Homosexual Conduct], [[Human Rights Watch]], November 22, 2005. Retrieved September 20, 2008.</ref> In July 2006 two youths were hanged for "sex crimes" in north-eastern Iran, probably rape.<ref name=Ind>[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/brutal-land-where-homosexuality-is-punishable-by-death-792057.html Brutal land where homosexuality is punishable by death], Ann Penketh, ''[[The Independent]]'', March 6, 2008. Retrieved September 20, 2008.</ref> On November 16, 2006, the State-run news agency reported the public execution of man convicted of sodomy in the western city of [[Kermanshah]], also probably rape.<ref>[http://www.iglhrc.org/site/iglhrc/section.php?id=5&detail=752 IGLHRC Condemns Iran’s Continued Use of Sodomy Laws To Justify Executions and Arbitrary Arrests], IGLHRC, July 18, 2007. Retrieved September 20, 2008.</ref>

===Arrests===
On January 23, 2008, Hamzeh Chavi, 18, and Loghman Hamzehpour, 19, were arrested in [[Sardasht]], in [[Iranian Azerbaijan]] for homosexuality. An on-line petition for their release began to circulate around the internet.<ref>[http://www.indymedia.be/node/25698 Online Petition for the release of Hamzeh Chavi and Loghman Hamzehpour]; January 28, 2008. Retrieved September 20, 2008.</ref> They apparently confessed to the authorities that they were in a relationship and in love, prompting a court to charge them with ''Moharebeh'' ("waging war against God") and ''Lavat'' ([[sodomy]]).

There were two reported crackdowns in [[Esfahān]] (also spelled "Isfahan"), Iran's third-largest city. On May 10, 2007, Esfahān police arrested 87 people at a birthday party, including 80 suspected gay men, beating and detaining them through the weekend.<ref>[http://www.ukgaynews.org.uk/Archive/07/May/1404.htm 87 arrested at gay party in Iran], ''[[The Advocate]]'' via ''ukgaynews.org.uk'', May 14, 2007; July 11, 2012.</ref> All but 17 of the men were released; those who remained in custody were believed to have been wearing women's clothing.<ref>[http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?id=ENGUSA20070521002&lang=e Amnesty International press release], May 17, 2007. Retrieved September 20, 2008.</ref> Photos of the beaten men were released by the [[Toronto]]-based [[Iranian Railroad for Queer Refugees]].<ref>[http://www.irqr.net Photos of Isfahan men beaten by police], Iranian Queer Organization. Retrieved September 20, 2008.</ref> According to [[Human Rights Watch]], in February 2008 police in Esfhan raided a party in a private home and arrested 30 men, who were held indefinitely without a lawyer on suspicion of homosexuality.<ref name=HRW20080328>{{cite web|url=http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/03/28/iran18385.htm |title=Iran: Private Homes Raided for ‘Immorality’ |publisher=Human Rights Watch |date= March 28, 2008|accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

===Gender identity===
Some lesbian Iranian women have cross-dressed to avoid [[sexual harassment]] and [[rape]], opposition groups alleging that they do so to obtain "economic opportunities only available to men", despite 60% of professionals in Iran being women, and Iran even having a female vice-president. It is illegal for a woman to dress as a man, or for a barber to cut the hair of a woman short (out of fear that doing so would facilitate cross-dressing). Likewise, men who cross-dress or are deemed too effeminate will also face harassment or criminal charges. [[Transsexualism|Transsexuals]] are granted immunity from these regulations.<ref name="globalgayz.com">[http://www.globalgayz.com/iran-news07-02.html#article7]</ref>

Since the mid-1980s, the Iranian government has legalized the practice of sex change operations (under medical approval) and the modification of pertinent legal documents to reflect the changed gender. The basis for this policy stems from a [[fatwa]] by the leader of Iran's Islamic Revolution, [[Ayatollah Ruholla Khomeini]], declaring sex changes permissible for "diagnosed" transsexuals.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2008/08/26/f-homosexuality-iran-sex-change.html |title=CBC News – Film – Iran's gay plan |publisher=Cbc.ca |date=August 26, 2008 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> This religious decree was first issued for [[Maryam Khatoon Molkara]], who has since become the leader of an Iranian transsexual organization. [[Hojatoleslam Kariminia]], a mid-level Islamic cleric in Iran, is another advocate for transsexual rights, having called publicly for greater respect for the human rights of Iranian transsexuals.

Despite the government's policy, transsexualism is still a taboo topic within Iranian society, and no laws exist to protect post-operative transsexuals from discrimination. Some gay and bisexual individuals in Iran are pressured to undergo sex change operation and live as women in order to avoid legal and social persecution. [[Tanaz Eshaghian|Tanaz Eshaghian's]] 2008 documentary, ''[[Be Like Others]]'' addresses this issue.

==Family and relationships==
No legislation exists to address discrimination or bias motivated violence on the basis of [[sexual orientation]] or [[gender identity]]. Officially, the Iranian government believes that everyone is [[heterosexual]] and that homosexuality is a violation of the supreme will of God.{{Citation needed|date=February 2012}}

[[Same-sex marriages]] and or [[civil unions]] are not legally recognized in Iran. Traditional Iranian families often exercise strong influence in who, and when, their children marry and even what profession they chose (although the latter is often common in any society).<ref name="cultureofiran.com">[http://www.cultureofiran.com/Patriarchy.php ]{{Dead link|date=October 2010}}</ref> Few LGBT Iranians [[Coming out|come out]] to family for fear of being rejected, abused or turned over to the authorities.

Traditional Iranian families tend to prohibit their children from dating, as it is not a part of Iranian culture, although this has become somewhat more tolerated, among liberals.<ref name="cultureofiran.com"/> In 2004 an independent film was released, directed by [[Maryam Keshavarz]], that examined the changing mores of Iranian youth when it comes to sex and dating.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tiburonfilmfestival.com/filmInfo.php?film_id=4564 |title=Tiburon International Film Festival |publisher=Tiburonfilmfestival.com |date=March 26, 2007 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

Gay Iranian couples are often afraid to be seen together
<ref>{{cite web|author=Fozoole Mahaleh |url=http://www.fozoolemahaleh.com/2010/12/05/هم-جنس-بازی-دلبستگی-دو-انسان-و-طبیعی-است |title=آیا هم جنس گرایی، یک بیماری است و یا یک نوع علاقه و دلبستگی میان دو انسان؟ |publisher=FozooleMahaleh.com |date= |accessdate=December 5, 2010}}</ref> in public, and report that [[LGBT]] people were widely stereotyped as being sex-obsessed child molesters, rapists, and diseased ridden degenerates.<ref>{{cite web|author=Gay Republic Daily |url=http://gayrepublic.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1787&lead=1 |title=Interview with Iranian Gay Couple :: Gay Republic Daily :: international Gay news |publisher=Gayrepublic.org |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> A popular Iranian derogatory slur against is that of a, "evakhahar", typically a very effeminate gay man who seeks casual sex in public.<ref name="ReferenceA">[http://gaycitynews.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=18383191&BRD=2729&PAG=461&dept_id=568864&rfi=8 ]{{Dead link|date=October 2010}}</ref>

==Censorship==
In 2002 a book entitled ''Witness Play'' by Cyrus Shamisa was banned from shelves (despite being initially approved) because it said that certain notable [[Persian literature|Persian]] writers were homosexuals or bisexuals.<ref>[http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/?ArchiveNews=Yes&NewsCode=12103&NewsKind=CurrentAffairs Iran News – Book on homosexuality ordered off shelves]{{Dead link|date=October 2010}}</ref>

In 2004, the Iranian government loaned its collection of artwork, locked away since revolution for being, "profane" to the Tate Britain gallery for six months. The artwork included explicit homoerotic artwork by [[Francis Bacon]] and the Iranian government stated that upon its return, it would be put on display in Iran.<ref>[http://www.globalgayz.com/iran-news97-04.html#article8]</ref>

In 2005, the liberal Iranian paper [[Shargh]] was shut down by the government after it interviewed an Iranian author, living in Canada. While the interview never mentioned the [[sexual orientation]] of [[Saghi Ghahreman]], it did quote her as stating that, "sexual boundaries must be flexible... The immoral is imposed by culture on the body."<ref name="globalgayz.com"/> The conservative paper [[Kayhan]] attacked the interview and the paper, "Shargh has interviewed this homosexual while aware of her sick sexual identity, dissident views and porno-personality."<ref name="globalgayz.com"/> To avoid being permanently shut down, the paper issued a public apology stating it was unaware of the author's "personal traits" and promised to "avoid such people and movements."<ref name="globalgayz.com"/>

==Exiled political parties and groups==

The Iranian government will not allow a political party or organization to endorse LGBT rights.

Vague support for LGBT rights in Iran has fallen to a handful of exiled political organizations. The [[Green Party of Iran]] has an English translation of its website that states, "Every Iranian citizen is equal by law, regardless of gender, age, race, nationality, religion, marital status, sexual orientation, or political beliefs" and calls for a "separation of state and religion".<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.iran-e-sabz.org/program/program.html#equal%20rights |title=Green Party of Iran – Our Program |publisher=Iran-e-sabz.org |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

The [[Worker Communist Party of Iran]] homepage has an English translation of its manifesto that supports the right of "All adults, women or men" to be "completely free in deciding over their sexual relationships with other adults. Voluntary relationship of adults with each other is their private affair and no person or authority has the right to scrutinize it, interfere with it or make it public".<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.wpiran.org/English/english.htm |title=Worker-communist Party of Iran |publisher=Wpiran.org |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

The leftist [[Rah-e Karegar Party]], the liberal [[Marze Por Gohar|Marz-e Por Gohar]] and the center-right [[Constitutionalist Party of Iran]] have all expressed support for the separation of religion and the state, which might promote LGBT rights.

==LGBT rights movement==

In 1972, [[Dr. Saviz Shafaii]] gave a public lecture on homosexuality at the [[Shiraz University]] and in 1976 would research sexual orientation and gender issues at the [[Syracuse University]]. In the 1990s, he joined the first human rights group for LGBT Iranians, [[HOMAN]] and continued his work until he died of cancer in 2000.<ref>[http://www.globalgayz.com/iran-news97-04.html#article1]</ref>

In 2001 an online Iranian LGBT rights organization was founded by a well-known Iranian gay activist, [[Arsham Parsi]] called "Rainbow", followed by a clandestine organization called the Persian Gay and Lesbian Organization. As of 2008, this group has been renamed the [[Iranian Railroad for Queer Refugees]]. While the founder of this group had to flee Iran and continue his work as an exile, there is an underground LGBT rights movement in Iran.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu_tiFZjNQY |title=Broadcast Yourself |publisher=YouTube |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

In 2006, the career of Iranian-born, openly gay comedian [[Ali Mafi]] began. Since then, Ali has become one of the nations youngest and fastest rising gay comedians. In all his shows, Ali mentions his status as an Iranian citizen and his commitment to being proud of who he is regardless. Ali currently resides in San Francisco, California, which hosts a prominent gay community.

In 2007 the Canadian CBC TV produced a documentary that interviewed several LGBT Iranians who talked about their struggles.

During protests against the outcome of the [[Iranian presidential election, 2009|Iranian election]] in July 2009, it was reported that several openly gay Iranians joined crowds of straight protesters in the UK and were welcomed with mostly positive attitudes towards LGBT rights.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-12904.html |title=President of Iran admits gays do exist in his country as 700-strong crowd protests in London – from Pink News – all the latest gay news from the gay community |publisher=Pink News |date=June 19, 2009 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

==AIDS/HIV==
Despite the deeply conservative character of the Iranian government, its efforts to stop the spread of [[AIDS]]/[[HIV]] have been quite progressive.<ref name="commondreams.org">{{cite web|url=http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0414-03.htm |title=Iran's AIDS-prevention Program Among World's Most Progressive |publisher=Commondreams.org |date=April 14, 2006 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> The first official reports of AIDS/HIV in Iran were reported in 1987, and a government commission was formed, albeit it was not until the 1990s that a comprehensive policy began to arise .<ref name="commondreams.org"/>

In 1997, Dr. Arash Alaei and his brother, Kamiar, were given permission to open up a small office for research on AIDS/HIV among prisoners and with a few years, despite public protests, they helped open the first general AIDS/HIV clinics. A booklet was approved, with explanation of condoms, and distributed to high school students. By the late 1990s, a comprehensive educational campaign existed.

Several clinics opened up to offer free testing and counseling. Government funds were allocated to distribute condoms to prostitutes, clean needles and drug rehabilitation to addicts and programs aired on television advocating the use of condoms.<ref name="commondreams.org"/> While there are shortages, medication is given to all Iranian citizens free of charge.

The Alaei brothers were joined in their educational campaign by Dr. Minoo Mohraz, who was also an early proponent of greater AIDS-HIV education, who chairs a research center in [[Tehran]]. Along with government funding, UNICEF has funded several Iranian volunteer based groups that seek to promote greater education about the pandemic and to combat the prejudice that often follows Iranians who have it .<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.unicef.org/iran/hiv_aids_2029.html |title=UNICEF Iran (Islamic Republic of) – HIV/AIDS Prevention and Adolescent Friendly Services – Celebrity Football Match Launches Global Campaign in Iran |publisher=Unicef.org |date=December 5, 2005 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> Yet, the election of [[President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]] may signal a more restrictive approach to the pandemic.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs2212 |title=Kevin Sites in the Hot Zone – Video – Yahoo! News |publisher=Hotzone.yahoo.com |date= |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

In June 2008 the Alaei brothers were detained, without charge, by the Iranian government, after attending an international conference on AIDS/HIV.<ref>{{cite web|author=Joe Amon |url=http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2008/07/20/iran-release-detained-hivaids-experts |title=Iran: Release Detained HIV/AIDS Experts |publisher=Human Rights Watch |date=July 20, 2008 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> The government has since accused the two doctors of attending the conference as part of a larger plotting to overthrow the government.<ref>[http://www.iranfreethedocs.org]</ref>

As of 2007, the Iranian government says that 18,320 Iranians have been infected with HIV, bringing the official number of deaths to 2,800, although critics claim that the actual number may be much higher.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.thebody.com/content/art49072.html |title=Iran Reports 30 Percent Rise in HIV Infection on 2007 |publisher=The Body |date=October 20, 2008 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref> Officially, drug addiction is the most common way that Iranians become infected.

While educational programs exist for prostitutes and drug addicts, no educational campaign for LGBT has been allowed to exist. In talking about the situation Kaveh Khoshnood stated, "Some people would be able to talk about their own drug addiction or their family member's, but they find it incredibly difficult to talk about homosexuality in any way," Khoshnood said. "If you're not acknowledging its existence, you're certainly not going to be developing any programs" for gays.<ref>{{cite web|author=Post a Comment |url=http://www.internationalreportingproject.org/stories/detail/574/ |title=Stories – Iran tackles AIDS head-on — International Reporting Project |publisher=Internationalreportingproject.org |date=December 31, 2004 |accessdate=October 22, 2010}}</ref>

==Asylum cases==
Some middle class Iranians have received an education in a Western nation; there is a small population of gay Iranian immigrants who live in Western nations. However, most attempts by gay Iranians to seek asylum in a foreign country based on the Iranian government's anti-gay policies have failed, considering its policies are mild compared to US allies such as Saudi Arabia.

In 2001, the [[United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights]] rejected a plea from an Iranian man who escaped from an Iranian prison after being convicted and sentenced to death for the crime of homosexuality.<ref>[http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord2003/documentation/tbodies/cat-c-30-d-190-2001.htm For The Record 2003 – United Nations – Treaty Bodies Database – Document – Jurisprudence – Netherlands]{{Dead link|date=October 2010}}</ref> Part of the problem with this case was that the man had entered the country illegally and was later convicted of killing his boyfriend, after he discovered that he had been unfaithful.

In 2005, the [[Japanese government]] rejected an asylum plea from another Iranian gay man. That same year, the [[Swedish government]] also rejected a similar claim by an Iranian gay man's appeal. The Netherlands is also going through a review of its asylum policies in regard to Iranians claiming to be victims of the Iranian government's anti-gay policies.

In 2006, the Netherlands stopped deporting gay men back to Iran temporarily. In March 2006, Dutch Immigration Minister [[Rita Verdonk]] said that it was now clear "that there is no question of executions or death sentences based solely on the fact that a defendant is gay", adding that homosexuality was never the primary charge against people. However, in October 2006, after pressure from both within and outside the Netherlands, Verdonk changed her position and announced that Iranian LGBTs would not be deported.<ref>[http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/10/19/nether14428.htm Netherlands: Asylum Rights Granted to Lesbian and Gay Iranians]; October 26, 2006. Retrieved August 13, 2007.</ref>

The UK came under fire for its continued deporting, especially due to news reports documenting gay Iranians who committed suicide when faced with deportation. Some cases have provoked lengthy campaigning on behalf of potential deportees, sometimes resulting in gay Iranians being granted asylum, as in the cases of [[Kiana Firouz]]<ref>[http://www.everyonegroup.com/EveryOne/MainPage/Entries/2010/6/18_Refugees._EveryOne_Group__Kiana_Firouz,_has_been_granted_permission_to_remain_in_the_UK.html Refugees. EveryOne Group: Kiana Firouz, has been granted permission to remain in the UK]</ref> and [[Mehdi Kazemi]].<ref>[http://madikazemi.blogspot.com/2008/04/mehdi-kazemi-on-his-way-back-dutch-we.html Mehdi Kazemi: On his way back : Dutch "We have confidence in a good outcome"]</ref>

==Views of the Iranian Government on Homosexuality==
The Iranian state media have shown their detest towards homosexuality on many occasions. The Iranian government believes that homosexuals are deviant individuals who have, for some reason (psychological, social or physiological) deviated from the balanced and natural human condition and need help and support to stop sinking any further into the 'swamp of immorality'.<ref>''Know more about the obvious and hidden dimensions of promoting homosexuality in the world'', Mashregh News, Aug 11, 2012</ref> The same article claims that homosexuality is an Israeli conspiracy, without providing any evidence for such claim.

==See also==
{{Portal|LGBT|Iran|Human rights}}
*[[Ages of consent in Asia]]
*[[Be Like Others]], a documentary film about transsexuality in Iran
*[[Gender Identity Organization of Iran]]
*[[Homosexuality]]
*[[Human rights in the Imperial State of Iran]] (1925–1979)
*[[Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran]] (1979–present)
*[[Iran]]
*[[Judicial system of Iran]]
*[[LGBT rights by country]]
*[[Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni]]
*[[Sodomy laws]]
*[[Transsexuality in Iran]]

==Notes==
{{reflist|2}}

==References==
*[http://www.faryadmagazine.com/humanity_gay_rights.html The Secret World of Iran's Gay and Lesbian community]

==External links==
*[http://persiandutch.com/2012/08/06/persians-amsyerdam-gay-parade-4th-august-2012/ Persians (Iranians) at Amsterdam Gay Parade, Aug. 2012]
*[http://gaytoday.badpuppy.com/garchive/interview/052797in.htm Saviz Shafaie]
*[http://www.petertatchell.net/international/iranstatemurder.htm Iran – The State-Sponsored Torture & Murder of Lesbians & Gays Men]
*[http://current.com/items/76312142_transsexuality_in_iran Transsexuality in Iran (video report)]
*[http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/iran?ta=lawsCustoms&pg=3 UK government travel advice for Iran: Local laws and customs]

{{Iran topics}}
{{Asia topic|LGBT rights in}}
{{Use mdy dates|date=October 2010}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Iran}}
[[Category:Iranian law]]
[[Category:LGBT rights in Iran| ]]

User talk:Parthian Scribe

2013-02-13T04:04:29Z

Parthian Scribe:

{{wikibreak|[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]]| on a future date}}
== Welcome! ==

Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, and [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikipedia! Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/{{BASEPAGENAME}}|your contributions]]{{#if:|, especially what you did for [[:{{{art}}}]]}}. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
*[[Wikipedia:Five pillars|The five pillars of Wikipedia]]
*[[Wikipedia:Tutorial|Tutorial]]
*[[Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]]
*[[Wikipedia:Article development|How to write a great article]]
*[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign]] your messages on [[Wikipedia:talk page|discussion page]]s using four [[tilde]]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]], ask me on {{#if:|[[user talk:{{{1}}}|my talk page]]|my talk page}}, or ask your question on this page and then place <code><nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki></code> before the question. Again, welcome!  --[[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] ([[User talk:Wikiacc|¶]]) 17:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks, that was nice.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] ([[User talk:Parthian Scribe#top|talk]]) 17:59, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

== Talkback! ==

{{tb|WP:TW|How do you use it?|tp=1}}
[[User:Ioeth|Ioeth]] ([[User_talk:Ioeth|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Ioeth|contribs]] [[WP:FRIENDLY|friendly]]) 15:55, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
:Okay, I did.--[[User talk:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 06:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

== Replied to your message ==

Just wanted to let you know I replied to your message at [[Talk:Edgar Allan Poe in popular culture]]. I hope you'll reconsider your addition of the reference to Zelda based on the information I've provided. --[[User:Midnightdreary|Midnightdreary]] ([[User talk:Midnightdreary|talk]]) 11:58, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, you made a very good point, I guess I'll change it.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] ([[User talk:Parthian Scribe#top|talk]]) 23:27, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

== Category:Converts from Judaism ==

Hey there, I see you're pretty new to this, so I won't be mean. :) When you take a category to CFD for deletion or renaming, you also have to "tag" the category page. In this case, you need to post the ''renaming template'', using <nowiki>{{subst:cfr|proposed name}}</nowiki>. Also, in the future, be careful to use the right heading when you set up the discussion section on the CFD page -- for some reason, you "re-used" the heading from the section right below yours. Not to worry, I've already taken care of that, so all you have to do is post that ''renaming template''. Regards, [[User:Cgingold|Cgingold]] ([[User talk:Cgingold|talk]]) 05:45, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks --[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] ([[User talk:Parthian Scribe#top|talk]]) 06:03, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

==Scarlett Johansson==
Is there a source that she is a Christian? The below interview doesn't say that, celebrating "little bit of both" (the line you quoted) doesn't necessarily make somebody a Christian:

http://www.bangitout.com/reviews112.html

:"Q: I read that your mother is Jewish and your father is Danish?
:A: Yes.
:Q: With the holiday season coming up, how do you plan on celebrating?
:A: I'm just going to be with my family.
:Q: But what do you celebrate, more Christmas or more Chanukah?
:A: A little of both."

[[User:All Hallow's Wraith|All Hallow's Wraith]] ([[User talk:All Hallow's Wraith|talk]]) 22:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
:Yes, I was just looking at the page. Sorry about that.--[[User talk:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 22:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

== Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/McGill Street ==

The link from the disambiguation page [[McGill Street]] to [[McGill Street (Vancouver)]] is now blue. You may want to revisit [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/McGill Street]]. -- [[User:Eastmain|Eastmain]] ([[User talk:Eastmain|talk]]) 16:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Seeing that there is some use to the page now, I withdrew the AFD nomination.--[[User talk:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 20:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

== Your rollback request ==

Hello Parthian Scribe, I have granted your account rollback in accordance with your request. Please remember that rollback should be used to revert vandalism, and that misuse of the tool, either by reverting good-faith edits or reverting-warring with other users, can lead to its removal. For practice, you may wish to review [[Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback]]. Good luck. [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 22:01, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ''very'' quick response!--[[User talk:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 22:01, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
::You're welcome! [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 22:02, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

== Oh it's fine... ==

Happened to me this morning, it's all good [[User:Wysprgr2005|Wysprgr2005]] ([[User talk:Wysprgr2005|talk]]) 23:38, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

== October 2008 ==

[[Image:Information.png|25px]] Welcome to Wikipedia. The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalena+de+Kino?diff=247515998 recent edit] you made to [[:Magdalena de Kino]] has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]] for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, ensure that you provide an informative [[Help:Edit summary|edit summary]]. You may also wish to read the [[Wikipedia:Introduction|introduction to editing]]. Thank you.  [[User:Wysprgr2005|Wysprgr2005]] ([[User talk:Wysprgr2005|talk]]) 02:24, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:Hello again, you left a warning on my talk page for a perfectly legitimate edit I made [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magdalena_de_Kino&diff=prev&oldid=247515998]. What I was doing was changing a hyphen to a dash (read over [[WP:DASH]]) along with some automatic fixes the [[WP:AWB|AutoWiki Browser]] threw in. There is no reason the edit should have been reverted, and certainly no reason I should have received a vandalism warning on my talk page. Can you please review your edits ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magdalena%2Bde%2BKino&diff=next&oldid=247515998], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Parthian_Scribe&diff=247516036&oldid=247488626]), and then decide whether or not they were necessary? Thank you.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 02:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

== Sorry ==

Been really hectic, Huggle has it's issues. Not sure how to unwarn you... [[User:Wysprgr2005|Wysprgr2005]] ([[User talk:Wysprgr2005|talk]]) 02:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:Don't worry about it, if you want to unwarn me, you can just remove the section or undo your revision (I think), but it's not necessary. Have a nice day :) [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 02:53, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

[[Image:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px]] This is the '''only warning''' you will receive for your disruptive edits. If you [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia again{{#if:Barack Obama|, as you did to [[:Barack Obama]]}}, you '''will''' be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|}} [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] [[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]] 05:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

:I think you may have a misunderstanding, Obama's father was Kenyan; which is not the same thing as an "African-American" (who are descended primarily from West Africa. Even if the edit I made was false, it certainly did not deserve a warning message, especially one with no explanation of ''what'' I did that was wrong. For future reference, the edit I made was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=prev&oldid=249794146].--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 05:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

== Blocked for vandalism of Wikipedia ==

<div class="user-block"> [[Image:Stop x nuvola with clock.svg|40px|left]] {{#if:|You have been '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing for a period of '''time'''|You have been '''temporarily [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing}} in accordance with [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|Wikipedia's blocking policy]] for {{#if:|'''reason'''|[[Wikipedia:Vandalism|abuse of editing privileges]]}}. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|make constructive contributions]]. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may [[Wikipedia:Appealing a block|contest the block]] by adding the text <nowiki>{{</nowiki>unblock|''your reason here''<nowiki>}}</nowiki> below, but you should read our [[Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]] first. {{#if:|[[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] [[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]] 05:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)}}</div> [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] [[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]] 05:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

== Unblock request for unjust block ==

{| width="75%" align="center" class="notice noprint" style="background: none; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 0.5em; margin: 0.5em auto;"
|-
| valign="top" style="padding: 0.1em" | [[Image:Yes check.svg|50 px]]
| style="padding: 0.1em" |

'''Your request to be unblocked''' has been '''granted''' for the following reason(s):
 False positive. The article was being vandalized massively during these hours after the elections results and you got caught in the cross fire. Unblocked. My apologies.

''Request handled by:'' [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] [[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]] 19:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

|}

:::I would like to note that I was only warned once by "Jossi", and it was for [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=prev&oldid=249794146]. I was immediately ''blocked'' for reverting his edit [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=prev&oldid=249794146]; giving an explanation on my talk page. This user was ''very'' unclear about why he warned and blocked me, he never spoke to me directly which I found offensive, and he was too quick to block; I never "vandalized" Wikipedia, and the edit I made was (I believe) constructive to Wikipedia. Rather than posting a message on my talk page so we could settle our minor disagreement, he just blocked me. I felt violated.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 06:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

::I am reviewing your block now - at a glance, the block does seem somewhat harsh to me; however, I am removing your access to the rollback tool. That tool is intended for blatant vandalism only, and cannot be used for edit warring. Once your block is lifted or expires, you may request re-granting of this tool after some time to me directly or at [[WP:RFPERM]]. [[User:Hersfold|'''''Hersfold''''']] ([[User:Hersfold/t|t]]/[[User:Hersfold/a|a]]/[[Special:Contributions/Hersfold|c]]) 06:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you for taking my request into consideration. Sorry about the rollback thing though, I just used it to revert one edit because it was quicker than pressing the undo button; I assure you, I will not make this mistake again in the future. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 06:51, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
::::I also would say that from the surface, ''blocking'' you was rather petty and childish. Revoking rollback? OK. Blocking you? no. I don't know if there is something I'm missing, but it seems to me that Jossi's block was merely an "I'll show you" because you reverted him. I'll ask him what is going on. [[User:J.delanoy|J'''.'''delanoy]][[User Talk:J.delanoy|gabs]][[Special:Contributions/J.delanoy|adds]] 17:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the unblock Jossi, I realize it must have been very difficult to patrol that article at such a restless time. I also apologize for going a bit over the top with a lot of the things I said my unblock request, I shouldn't have been so enraged for something that was simply a mistake. Again, thanks for the unblock, but my block log shows me as being unblocked, yet somehow I am still unable to edit. I get a message saying "Autoblocked because your IP address was recently used by "Parthian Scribe". The reason given for Parthian Scribe's block is: "Vandalism".". I am puzzled as to why I am still getting this message because both my account and my IP address are "unblocked" according to the block log. Does anyone know why this is so? Thanks. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 00:22, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
::It looks like the autoblock was not removed when you were unblocked, as it is still visible in [[Special:IPBlockList]]. I assume the message [[MediaWiki:Autoblockedtext]] (or something similar) shows when you try to edit; the instructions are in the "rectifying an autoblock" section (which you may need to click "show" on). —[[User talk:Snigbrook|Snigbrook]] 00:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the information, Snigbrook, I'm going to place the request on my page.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 01:03, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

{{tlx|unblock-auto|75.164.111.197|[[Wikipedia:Autoblock|Autoblocked]] because your IP address was recently used by "[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]]". The reason given for Parthian Scribe's block is: "[[WP:Vandalism|Vandalism]]", even though the block has since been lifted (see [[User_talk:Parthian_Scribe|talk page]]).|Jossi|4=1201990}}
:Unblocked. [[user:east718|<big style="color:#900">east718</big>]] // [[user talk:east718#top|talk]] // [[special:emailuser/east718|email]] // 01:07, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== Changes to [[Template:Arabs]] ==
I don't need luck finding them, I've seen plenty of such studies. Even Jews have been shown to be closer related to Kurds, who are Iranian speakers, than to Arabs, so there you have it. Linguistics don't mean much when it comes to genetics. Here's some stuff I don't know if you can access: [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11380939?dopt=Abstract][http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1274378] and a map by Cavalli Sforza: [http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ar20iranian20genetic20cyc3.gif] [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 17:52, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:I didn't find when where exactly it said Kurds are more closely related to Arabs (but then again, I only skimmed over the second link). I think at this point you should start a discussion about this on the talk page of [[Arabs]] or [[Template:Arabs]] to see if a larger consensus could be reached. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 22:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Re: Rollback ==

No. It's good to see that the block was, after all, a mistake, however that doesn't change the fact that you misused rollback. When you accepted the tool the first time, you made the same promise (or at least accepted those conditions of its use). When I said you could re-request the tool, I meant after a few weeks, (hence "after some time" in my original post). You are welcome to request it at [[WP:RFPERM]] if you're not satisfied with this, but I will be happy to take another look at this after a couple weeks if you don't mind waiting that long. [[User:Hersfold|'''''Hersfold''''']] ([[User:Hersfold/t|t]]/[[User:Hersfold/a|a]]/[[Special:Contributions/Hersfold|c]]) 20:41, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
:Oops, I must have missed the "after some time" part, sorry about that. However, after reading [[Help:Reverting#Rollback]] it says ''it's polite to leave an explanation on the article talk page or on the talk page of the user whose edit(s) you reverted''. While I did not leave a comment on the other user's talk page or the article's talk page, I ''did'' leave an explanation to the revert on my own talkpage--where the other user had commented; since that's where the discussion previously existed. Also access to rollback rights for me was removed because of "edit warring with rollback"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=User%3AParthian+Scribe&year=&month=-1] however, [[WP:EDITWAR]] describes edit warring as "when individual editors or groups of editors ''repeatedly'' revert each other's edits"; I only reverted one edit, I'm not sure whether or not you saw that since the Obama article was flooded with edits at that time. But, I don't mind waiting another couple of weeks to get back rollback--it's not that big of a deal. Thanks. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 22:03, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== [[WP:ACC]] ==

[[Image:Pictogram voting support.svg|100px|left]] Thank you for applying to access the account creation tool. I have approved your request. You may now access the tool [http://stable.toolserver.org/acc/acc.php here]. Before you do so, please read the tool's [[WP:ACC/G|guide]] to familiarize yourself with the process. You may also want to join [irc://irc.freenode.org/wikipedia-en-accounts #wikipedia-en-accounts] on irc and/or the [https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/accounts-enwiki-l mailing list]. Keep in mind that the ACC tool is a powerful program, and misuse may result in your access being suspended by a tool administrator. Don't hesitate to get in touch with me if you have any questions. Thank you for your participating in the account creation process. '''[[User:Addshore|·Add§hore·]]''' [[User_talk:Addshore|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Addshore|Cont]] 22:27, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

== Persian people ==

Dear Parthian Scribe, [[Persian people]] article is general. As you know persons like Rumi, Khwarezmi and ... didn't live in present bounderies of Iran, but they were called "Persian". Also "Persian" in English mostly means "Iranian" and not exclusively a "Persian-speaker", and Persian-speakers of Iran don't call themselves "Parsi". In other words the present "Persian people" article is not about a special ethnic group. I humbly think that you should improve the infobox on [[Persian-speakers of Iran]] for Iranian nationals who speak Persian whether inside or outside Iran. These matters has been discussed previously in [[Talk:Persian_people]]. Please if you have a counter argument, discuss it there.--[[User:Raayen|Raayen]] ([[User talk:Raayen|talk]]) 03:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:Oh, I didn't realize there was previously a discussion about this topic. I apologize. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 04:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== DYK for Lebanese Navy SEALs Regiment ==

{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
| On [[13 November]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Lebanese Navy SEALs Regiment]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{7}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{8}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{9}}}]]'''''}}, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Sneath Glass Company ==
Dear Parthian Scribe,
I'm working on the 90%. I got it from a booklet called "The Glass Business and the Crimmels" by Clyde Crimmel II, on page 5. However, I have asked my source (a 75-year-old) for more proof. His reply so far is that Sneath has about 30 patents relating to kitchen and refrigerator ware. Here are the first two he listed: 1. Patent # 1,915,647 dated June 27, 1933, for the defroster tray that fit under the ice cube trays for defrosting the refrigerator
2. Patent # 1,915,849 dated June 27, 1933 - for refrigerator product. He has also mentioned Mildred & Ralph Lechner as author/sources, but I am not sure if this relates to the 90%, and I do not have any of their books. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:TwoScars|TwoScars]] ([[User talk:TwoScars|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TwoScars|contribs]]) 20:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC) 
:Thanks, I went ahead and added the source to the article, and updated the [[Template_talk:Did_you_know#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_November_9|Did you Know request]]. --[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 01:55, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:Mysql-screenshot.PNG==
Thanks for uploading or contributing to '''[[:Image:Mysql-screenshot.PNG]]'''. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to [[:Image:Mysql-screenshot.PNG|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline|fair use rationale]].

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|my contributions]]" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. [[User:Fastily|Fastily]] ([[User talk:Fastily|talk]]) 03:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
:Hi, I was just looking at the image, and it appears that the program is licensed under the [[GPL]] license; not fair use like I marked it. I'm going to change the the tags now. Sorry for the inconvenience. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 03:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

== DYK for Sneath Glass Company ==

{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[17 November]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Sneath Glass Company]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|}  '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 19:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Rollback Request ==

Now that I'm not getting edit conflicts out the wazoo.... As I'm pretty sure I already explained, rollback is intended for use with blatant vandalism only. The edits which led me to remove the tool from you could only be described as a content dispute. Even if leaving a note, it is inappropriate to use rollback, as that does not allow you to enter an edit summary for the benefit of other editors. It also marks the edit as minor, which if you're not reverting vandalism, it probably isn't. Edit conflicts are not a problem, as the undo button will often work for older revisions. If you get such a conflict, go back to the history and try again.

Anyway, in looking over your edits since the last request less than two weeks ago, I don't see any evidence of edit warring, but nor do I see much evidence of anti-vandalism work. I'll go ahead and give you the tool, since Huggle is good about finding only blatant stuff, but do use caution whenever using the tool manually. If you're not sure, use the undo button so you can leave a note. If you have further questions, do let me know. Happy editing. [[User:Hersfold|'''''Hersfold''''']] ([[User:Hersfold/t|t]]/[[User:Hersfold/a|a]]/[[Special:Contributions/Hersfold|c]]) 17:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

== RfA thanks ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #E6F2FF;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:THOBarnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The RfA Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | {{BASEPAGENAME}}, I would like to thank you for your participation in my recent [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Thehelpfulone|Request for Adminship]], which '''passed''' with 112 supports, 4 opposes and 5 neutrals. A special mention goes out to [[User:Stwalkerster|Stwalkerster]] and [[User:Pedro|Pedro]] for nominating me, thanks a lot for having trust in me! In response to the neutrals, I will try to double check articles that have been tagged for speedy deletion before I CSD them and will start off slowly with the drama boards of [[WP:ANI|ANI]] and [[WP:AN|AN]] to ensure that I get used to them. In response to the oppose !votes on my RfA, I will check that any images I use meet the [[WP:NFCC|non-free content criteria]] and will attempt to handle any disputes or queries as well as I can. If you need my help at all, feel free to simply [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Thehelpfulone&action=edit&section=new ask] at my [[User talk:Thehelpfulone|talk page]] and I'll see if I can help. Once again, thank you for your participation, and have a great day! :) [[User:Thehelpfulone|'''The''']][[User_talk:Thehelpfulone| '''Helpful''']][[Special:Contributions/Thehelpfulone| '''One''']] 22:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
|}
design by [[User:Neurolysis|neurolysis]] | to add this barnstar to your awards page, simply copy and paste <nowiki>{{subst:User:Neurolysis/THOBS}}</nowiki> and remove this bottom text | if you don't like thankspam, please accept my sincere apologies

== Adherents of Judaism category ==

Hi, please take a look at the comments I left [[Category_talk:Adherents_of_Judaism|here]] regarding my suggested deletion of this category. Your effort is commendable, but I think the category should be deleted. [[User:Shirulashem|'''shirulashem''']] [[User talk:Shirulashem|'''(talk)''']] 17:13, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Thanks, for the notification. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 23:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

==Kim Kardiashian and Ana Kasparian==

In order for there to be a feud Kardishian would have had to respond in some way. I care because the information is inaccurate.
Go to youtube and type in "The Kim Kardashian vs. Ana Kasparian Feud rages on" and you will see an excerpt from the young turks show where kasparian disputes the idea that theres a feud. She made fun of her a lot on the show and some writer decided to write that up as feud. Unless you find some source where Kardashian responds directly to Kasparian than this claim has no evidence to back it up. [[User:annoynmous|annoynmous]] 11:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
:Oh sorry, I didn't realize the whole situation. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 07:37, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== section on Baha'i Faith at [[Religion in Pakistan]] ==
I've just completed a whole article on the [[Baha'i Faith in Pakistan]], it has been my practice to include more or less the header section as a section/main article link in the "Religion in " article. I see you and another have built up a section there and would like to consult on the approach. For a broader review of my work see [[:Category:Bahá'í Faith by country]] For an example of what I normally do see [[Bahá'í Faith in Azerbaijan]] and [[Religion in Azerbaijan]]. [[User:Smkolins|Smkolins]] ([[User talk:Smkolins|talk]]) 10:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

==[[Wikipedia:WikiProject TRANSWIKI]]==
You are invited to join [[Wikipedia:WikiProject TRANSWIKI|WikiProject TRANSWIKI]] and join the '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject TRANSWIKI/Persian|Persian language transwiki project]]'''. The aim is to draw up a full directory of missing articles from Persian wikipedia and build a team of translators to work at bridging the gaps in knowledge and to improve existing articles by translation and finding reliable sources to back up information. We need your help, so please join up as your language skills are crucial to improving coverage of Iran on wikipedia in depth.[[User:Dr. Blofeld| '''''Dr. Blofeld''''']] [[User talk:Dr. Blofeld| White cat ]] 11:53, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

== Please comment ==

[[Talk:WKRK_(FM)#Move_article_to_WKRK-FM|Please comment here.]] [[User:MisterE2123Five3|MisterE2123Five3]] ([[User talk:MisterE2123Five3|talk]]) 07:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

== Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference ==

Hello there. This is an automated message to tell you about the gradual phasing out of the preference entitled "Mark all edits minor by default", which you currently have (or very recently had) enabled.

On 13 March 2011, this preference was hidden from the user preferences screen as part of efforts to prevent its accidental misuse ([[Help_talk:Minor_edit#Should_we_remove_the_Preference_setting_to_.22Mark_all_edits_minor_by_default.22_.3F|consensus discussion]]). This had the effect of locking users in to their existing preference, which, in your case, was <code>true</code>. To complete the process, your preference will automatically be changed to <code>false</code> in the next few days. This does not require any intervention on your part and you will still be able to manually mark your edits as being minor in the usual way.

For established users such as yourself there is '''[[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_78#Preference_to_mark_all_edits_minor_by_default_asked_to_be_removed_in_bugzilla:24313|a workaround available]]''' involving custom JavaScript. With the script in place, you can continue with this functionality indefinitely (its use is governed by [[WP:MINOR]]). If you have any problems, feel free to drop me a note.

Thank you for your understanding and happy editing :) Editing on behalf of [[User:Jarry1250]], [[User:LivingBot|LivingBot]] ([[User talk:LivingBot|talk]]) 19:14, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt

2013-02-13T04:03:06Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Merge/redirect */

{{talk header}}
{{blpo}}
{{WPBS|
{{WikiProject Crime|class=current|importance=low}}
{{WikiProject California|importance=low|la=yes|inland-empire=yes}}
{{WikiProject Law enforcement}}
{{WikiProject Biography|living=no|blpo=yes}}
}}
{{ITN note|2013 Southern California shootings|date=12 February 2013}}
=="Accidental Shooting"==
I do not think it is appropriate to use the term "accidental shooting" or "mistakenly fired" when it was very clearly intentional shooting. An "accidental shooting" might be where someone fires a weapon, but did not intend to. The same goes with "mistakenly fired". I do not think there is any source that suggests the firing of the weapons was mistaken. WHO they thought they were shooting was a mistake. But this was no accident and they weren't mistakenly fired weapons. More accurate would be "attempted assassination", but I'd settle for something at least true and neutral. [[User:Promontoriumispromontorium|Promontoriumispromontorium]] ([[User talk:Promontoriumispromontorium|talk]]) 03:25, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:I made the simple and very neutral change to "Civilian shooting," along with consistent edits in the body of that section. (Plus a few corrections, such as from "Doner" to "Dorner.") [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 03:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

It would be interesting to add: were they just shooting into an occupied vehicle with no idea who was in it or did they mistake 2 women for 1 300 pound bald man?
:It would be interesting, but I think against the grain of Wikipedia article guidelines. :) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Should I delete this now that it's been changed?[[User:Promontoriumispromontorium|Promontoriumispromontorium]] ([[User talk:Promontoriumispromontorium|talk]]) 20:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

:I think it's helpful and illuminating to see discussion history remain within the Talk section, but that's just me for all I know. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 15:40, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

:Promontoriumispromontorium, such deletions are specifically against Wikipedia policy. See [[WP:TALKO]]. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 23:30, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Unredacted manifesto ==

The media have been releasing heavily censored versions of Dorner's manifesto, which may or may not protect them legally (although I doubt it makes much of a difference) but it makes it difficult to google the names to figure out what happened in the incidents he's upset about. I was able to find [http://youranonnews.tumblr.com/post/42506354980/heres-an-uncensored-copy-of-the-rogue-lapd-officers an uncensored copy here]. [[Special:Contributions/71.215.66.32|71.215.66.32]] ([[User talk:71.215.66.32|talk]]) 21:29, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

http://pastebin.com/TAzPRfPy is a more readable version. [[Special:Contributions/71.215.66.32|71.215.66.32]] ([[User talk:71.215.66.32|talk]]) 21:35, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Who can say what is uncensored if the original page was taken down? The "more readable" version is labled as "scrubbed by the media" and identical to the "uncensored" one. Until consensus exists on what are the actual words of the accused perpetrator, the reference should be left out of the article IMHO. [[Special:Contributions/70.36.212.48|70.36.212.48]] ([[User talk:70.36.212.48|talk]]) 23:31, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
:Well it's the same as the censored versions, except with the names of his co-workers he's complaining about, many of whom are googlable to confirm the incidents he refers to. Who would release a version with made-up names? I don't know whether it should go in the article or not, but it's got to be useful for people doing research on background, and for finding news report sources that *should* go in the article. [[Special:Contributions/71.215.66.32|71.215.66.32]] ([[User talk:71.215.66.32|talk]]) 00:09, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::Agreed. On this point, his alleged conduct is immaterial. His allegations are specific and clearly relevant to the event; in fact, they constitute his (alleged) motive. Redacted versions of the document are markedly less clear and illuminating than what thus far consistently appears on various sites as an unedited version. It is admittedly unverifiable at this juncture, but *the edited/redacted version isn't from an original source, either*. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 05:42, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:Most media outlets are "leaving out" a great deal more than that, per the pastebin link above. Your very selective details are patently political, which doesn't serve the objective of Wikipedia. Best solution is to simply have the pastebin link included in the article. Note that in addition to many other details, that link includes those you have chosen to highlight. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 05:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: You're right, I agree I deleted my comment.--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 06:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Wikipedia people can be so mature relative to the Internet norm it's at times astonishing. :D [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:14, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

-- for you guys/gals at Wikipedia to not mention Chris Dorner's decisively left wing views is not surprising. He is a Left-Wing Extremist/Terrorist. He should be identified in the opening paragraph of the article as that. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.113.216.234|99.113.216.234]] ([[User talk:99.113.216.234|talk]]) 20:17, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 

Dorner's personal war against law enforcement, particularly the LAPD, is essentially a war on a local government, and his threats to all other law enforcement constitute, essentially, a war on government in totality. Note that "right wing" terrorist Timothy McVeigh has a section on his wikipedia article that identifies his religious and political beliefs. So should there not be a section on Dorner's article that identifies him as a left wing extremist agnostic (perhaps atheist) ???? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.113.216.234|99.113.216.234]] ([[User talk:99.113.216.234|talk]]) 20:33, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 

Quote from the manifesto include ' I’m not a fucking Christian '. He notes his support of most of President Obama's domestic policies as well. Praises Michelle Obama, and accuses Mitt Romney of being a sore loser.

er, this is wikipedia folks. You don't expect the FACTS about an Obama-supporting, left-wing spree killer to actually make into the article, do you? [[Special:Contributions/72.37.249.60|72.37.249.60]] ([[User talk:72.37.249.60|talk]]) 22:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I have strong reason to think that the manifesto referenced is actually a badly edited copy of the one put up by Dorner; there's a few severely out-of-character points, such as the sudden shout of support for the Anonymous movement. PaseteBin is a haven for anonymously posting these sorts of things on the parts of e-activists. I have strong suspicion this was made by such an activist who wished to put words conforming to their ideology in Dorner's mouth -- some passages just read very differently and out-of-place. [[Special:Contributions/86.21.137.79|86.21.137.79]] ([[User talk:86.21.137.79|talk]]) 23:16, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

There is a lot of concern about the manifesto
There appear to be at least THREE versions floating online from mainstream media sources
one with redacted names
one with names
and the one referenced in this wiki article with names AND a lot of left wing stuff about guns etc
We need to get 100% confirmation on this currently referenced manifesto that includes gun control references etc
I have seen a lot online that CLAIMS this version is fake — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.96.196.253|74.96.196.253]] ([[User talk:74.96.196.253|talk]]) 11:19, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

A section called "Manifesto versions" (or something like that) should be added to the article, since many are floating around and I'm personally skeptical about the one with all the pop culture references.. from what I understand it was done by /b/ and news sources are citing it as accurate. The reason I find the longer version to be less credible is that it contains much more spelling mistakes, and seems to change style.[[User:Nonfaridere|Nonfaridere]] ([[User talk:Nonfaridere|talk]]) 23:42, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

: I agree. A section titled "Manifesto variations" -- with coverage of what this means and a brief description of the variations -- would be most welcome. I, for one, blindly followed a link at Wikipedia to the supposedly "unredacted" version only to later find sources that claim the version in question is a deliberate fake due to containing spuriously added material. This is definitely part of the story, and it can be told without finger-pointing, just describing it as a factual by-product of the event. [[Special:Contributions/70.36.137.192|70.36.137.192]] ([[User talk:70.36.137.192|talk]]) 23:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Inaccurate characterization: "In the manifesto he blames racism for his predicament." ==

He consistently and explicitly blames whistleblower retaliation for his predicament.
[[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 02:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

== OWS Reaction ==

From an earlier revision of the article, as of now removed by an IP user:

"Revolutionary groups like [[Occupied Wall Street]] supported Dorner’s actions and called him a hero.[http://occupywallst.org/forum/christopher-jordan-dorner-is-a-true-patriot-hero-l/ Christopher Jordan Dorner Is A True Patriot Hero: LAPD Getting Everything It Deserves.]"

As the article is clearly marked as "not an official statement" on the website, I share the opinion of the IP user that this should not be included, but I'd like to place it here for debate. --[[User:MCaecilius|MCaecilius]] ([[User talk:MCaecilius|talk]]) 02:57, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:Are his supporters, or even whom he supports unless they are linked to his motives (retaliation for alleged whistleblower retaliation), remotely germane to the topic of the article? What's to discuss? [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 03:20, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I concur that this statement does not belong, as the linked OWS post is clearly labeled as anonymous user content on their website and obviously in no way is an official statement from OWS, which, to the original user who inserted that quote, stands for "Occupy" Wall Street, not "Occupied." [[User:Bosterson|Bosterson]] ([[User talk:Bosterson|talk]]) 03:22, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

== Referenced citations do not include specified details re. vehicle. ==
Dorner's Nissan Titan is silver and the newspaper truck is a blue Toyota Tacoma. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.130.178.237|72.130.178.237]] ([[User talk:72.130.178.237|talk]]) 07:20, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 

Neither source 15 nor 16 include the following descriptions: "The vehicle did not have its lights on in the dark, and had tinted windows, obstructing officers' ability to see into the vehicle, which may have raised their suspicion." I removed that statement, but include it here in the event there is a neutral reference for it and it is deemed applicable information. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 04:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I saw the vehicle. You can see the vehicle. It had tinted windows http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/07/16888732-women-shot-by-cops-were-just-delivering-papers#comments
:A *reference/citation* providing that information is precisely the point. Alas, insofar as whether I would agree the source you provide shows tinted windows, for me that URL just hangs. Maybe too much traffic, who knows. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:Ah, it opened. It shows only the rear window as tinted. If the side window is closed, then it isn't tinted. So, "partially tinted windows"? Or perhaps we can agree that it's a somewhat trivial detail? What's that detail's function, to make the presumption the vehicle's driver was Christopher Jordan Dorner more "reasonable" before opening fire on its occupants? [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:10, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

The tint to me? Did they mistake the two women for 1 300 pound bald Dorner or were they unable to see what they were shooting at? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.132.14.34|216.132.14.34]] ([[User talk:216.132.14.34|talk]]) 06:24, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 

:In California, tinted windshields or side windows are illegal, and it would be very unusual fr a newspaper delivery truck at night to not have both headlights and dome light on. I would need to see a reliable source for any claim to the contrary. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 23:36, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

==Needs a better name==
The current name, '''2013 Southern California shootings''', is accurate to this series of events, but also includes in its name all the other 2013 shootings in socal, which there will be a lot of. can we wedge in a word or two addressing how its police officer related? i dont have any bright ideas, but i think this name is way too generic. We can probably wait to see if the media comes up with a name, aside from the suspect himself.([[User:Mercurywoodrose]])[[Special:Contributions/99.157.205.137|99.157.205.137]] ([[User talk:99.157.205.137|talk]]) 04:35, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:Change article name to "Christopher Jordan Dorner"? (BTW I'd be signed in but the "forgot my credentials e-mail" never arrived in my inbox.) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 04:46, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: Disagree. This is an article about the ''killing spree'', not about the ''individual'' named Dorner. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 05:43, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Okay. I thought perhaps his related notoriety made that title acceptable, but maybe not. Either way, I understand the suggestion the title is too vague. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:04, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

::::I direct your attention to [[WP:PERP]], which states the following:

:::::''A living person accused of a crime is presumed not guilty unless and until this is decided by a court of law. Editors must give serious consideration to not creating an article on an alleged perpetrator when no conviction is yet secured.''

::::We can't name the article after Dorner, because to do so would imply his guilt. We have no way of knowing whether it is actually Dorner who is committing these crimes. For all we know, someone killed him two weeks ago and used his rage and frustration at being fired as an excuse to go on a killing spree targeting the LAPD. Yes, that sounds like bad fiction (I made it up just now), but it highlights my point: we can't prove that Dorner is doing this - not until he stands trial - so we can't name the article after him. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::Thanks. Understood. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 07:36, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::If Dorner is dead, as you suggest in your scenario, and for all we know he may be, then [[WP:PERP]] does not apply because as your own quote makes clear, [[WP:PERP]] only applies to a ''living person''. [[Special:Contributions/58.165.123.47|58.165.123.47]] ([[User talk:58.165.123.47|talk]]) 10:05, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
I kind of agree. What happens god forbid.. If he kills anyone in another state or country?--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 06:10, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:Then we address the issue if and when it happens. In the meantime, we can't go inventing names for it because that is [[WP:OR|original research]].

:Remember, Wikipedia [[WP:NOTNEWS|is not news]]. There is no hurry to add information to the article simply because it has become available. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because something has been reported, it is automatically notable enough for inclusion. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::No one asked you--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 11:59, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:::In that case, I suppose nobody asked you, either.

:::You have asked what we should do in the event that the suspect crosses a state or national border and kills someone there. Allow me to respond to your question with a question of my own: ''has'' the suspect crossed a state or national border and killed someone there? If the answer is no, then why are we even discussing it? [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 12:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::::Pay attention to exactly to what I responded to! It was in reponse to your Wikipedia is not News. No one asked you for all that!--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 12:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:::::I put that there for a reason: Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a news bulletin. There is no hurry to add content to a page simply because it has been reported. A lot of that content might not even be relevent to the actual article.

:::::For instance, an early version of this article had details of where Monica Quan and Keith Lawrence went to school and what they did for work. Any connection to the suspect was added as an afterthought. None of that content actually had anything to do with the article, which is the problem editors fall into when they rush to add content to a page.

:::::What I'm trying to say is that you should avoid falling into the trap of [[WP:RECENTISM|recentism]]. Just because something has happened, that doesn't automatically mean that it is notable enough for Wikipedia. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 12:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::::::We will likely have an article on the person, in addition to an article on this series of killings. I should point out the person is highly notable now, despite not having been convicted, and a case could be made for creating an article for him now, as long as the article is entirely neutral about what he has not demonstrably done. As for my idea for renaming, i think the best thing is to watch the news media, and if any sort of consensus shakes down as to a name for this, we can use it. I also recognize that we often use a name for such events that is really not used in media, like the tsunami in japan, where we chose precision over common usage.[[User:Mercurywoodrose|Mercurywoodrose]] ([[User talk:Mercurywoodrose|talk]]) 15:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Have you read some of the edits that have been made? There are people who are trying to turn the suspect into a folk hero. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 02:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
::::::::: Yeah, it's a terrible name. I suggest '''Christopher Dorner Shootings'''. -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 04:41, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

===Suggestion: 2013 Police Assassinations ===
I suggest 2013 Police Assassinations. It's more descriptive as it's not certain what the article's title is referring to. An uptick in police shootings in SoCal, or what? It's too vague.
[[User:Elryacko|Elryacko]] ([[User talk:Elryacko|talk]]) 17:37, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:meh... Police officers weren't the only victims.--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 18:18, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree. Of the three killed ("assassinated") so far, only one was a police officer. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 19:17, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Name of article is absurd. There were and are more than just this "set" of killings and it is only February. "Whistleblower Cop Rampage Killings" is as descriptive. Wait for and then use whatever name sticks, and if no name does stick, just merge into article on Dorner. 2013 Sothern California Police Assassinations almost works, but the young lady killed was not police. "2013 Rogue cop Vendetta" works better, as he is doing more than killing. He is terrifying law enforcement throughout SoCal. [[User:Madame L'Auteur|Madame L'Auteur]] ([[User talk:Madame L'Auteur|talk]]) 07:14, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
: I agree. The name of the article is absurd. It needs to be changed or the article needs to be merged with the existing article on [[Christopher Dorner]]. See my comments below. [[Special:Contributions/58.165.123.47|58.165.123.47]] ([[User talk:58.165.123.47|talk]]) 10:31, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

What if it were titled "LAPD Killer" or "LAPD Revenge Killings" or "LAPD Revenge Killer" or something to that effect? Nearly everyone involved were in the LAPD or were related to the LAPD. The primary threat is against the LAPD. You could tack on 2013 for more specificity. [[User:Promontoriumispromontorium|Promontoriumispromontorium]] ([[User talk:Promontoriumispromontorium|talk]]) 20:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:Another possibility, "Christopher Jordan Dorner shootings". In this story in the media, Dorner's name seems to be mentioned more than LAPD. --[[User:Bob K31416|Bob K31416]] ([[User talk:Bob K31416|talk]]) 23:39, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== No reference to or implication of quantity or frequency ==

"And had altercations with many students due to his race." The section of the referenced document (Dorner's) describing childhood altercations related to race offers no indication there were "many" such incidents. "Multiple times" is not sufficient for such an inference. I will remove the word "many" for that reason.
In evidence, with apologies for the length, here is the entire applicable paragraph:
:Journalist, I want you to investigate every location I resided in growing up. Find any incidents where I was ever accused of being a bully. You won't, because it doesn't exist. It's not in my DNA. Never was. I was the only black kid in each of my elementary school classes from first grade to seventh grade in junior high and any instances where I was disciplined for fighting was in response to fellow students provoking common childhood schoolyard fights, or calling me a nigger or other derogatory racial names. I grew up in neighborhoods where blacks make up less than 1%. My first recollection of racism was in the first grade at Norwalk Christian elementary school in Norwalk, CA. A fellow student, Jim Armstrong if I can recall, called me a nigger on the playground. My response was swift and non-lethal. I struck him fast and hard with a punch an kick. He cried and reported it to a teacher. The teacher reported it to the principal. The principal swatted Jim for using a derogatory word toward me. He then for some unknown reason swatted me for striking Jim in response to him calling me a nigger. He stated as good Christians we are to turn the other cheek as Jesus did. Problem is, I'm not a fucking Christian and that old book, made of fiction and limited non-fiction, called the bible, never once stated Jesus was called a nigger. How dare you swat me for standing up for my rights for demanding that I be treated as a equal human being. That day I made a life decision that i will not tolerate racial derogatory terms spoken to me. Unfortunately I was swatted multiple times for the same exact reason up until junior high. Terminating me for telling the truth of a caucasian officer kicking a mentally ill man is disgusting. Don't ever call me a fucking bully. I want all journalist to utilize every source you have that specializes in collections for your reports. With the discovery and evidence available you will see the truth. Unfortunately, I will not be alive to see my name cleared. That's what this is about, my name. A man is nothing without his name. Below is a list of locations where I resided from childhood to adulthood.
(I hope it is appropriate to include the paragraph here; apologies if otherwise.) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 04:39, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:Don't rely on the manifesto as a source. It's not [[WP:RELIABLE|reliable]]. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:33, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::In that case, the detail that Dorner had race-related altercations as a child would need to be omitted altogether. But aren't first-hand accounts reliable, at least as perspective information for the involved parties, if they are reported in news accounts by sources generally regarded as reliable? The only difference is that their version is in most but not all instances redacted and/or partial. If the non-redacted version otherwise matches the version offered by reliable sources, why would the "non-redacted" version not be regarded as a reliable first-person account? Indeed, according to the journalistic sources in question, the "manifesto" being referenced is acknowledged by law enforcement as being Dorner's. Similar points regarding verifiability. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 07:56, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::You know, I'll leave my comment there for potential contribution to the debate, but I'll respond to myself with the note that I think you're right. On reflection, it occurs to me that there's no way for us to have reasonable confidence Dorner wrote all or any of that document merely because law enforcement states he did. Law enforcement statements unto themselves reported by reliable sources cannot automatically be regarded as reliable information for citation. (Maybe an exercise in lateral thinking at best, but one might even idly wonder whether the "manifesto" could be a forgery designed to give a select law enforcement body the latitude to summarily execute someone.) In the encyclopedia, such information needs to be based on in-depth retrospective (after events more fully unfold) analyses from those generally reliable sources, not their "real-time" reporting. I yield to your perspective as I understand it. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 08:26, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

== Neighbors of his described him as [x] person who usually kept to himself. ==

It was changed from "an admirable" to "a quiet." I changed it back to "admirable" because the article cited does say admirable (specifically, "admired"). And it mentions nothing of "quiet." Don't edit to fit your preconceived narratives; stick to the source information. Doesn't matter whether it sounds odd to you (it does to me, too). From the cited article:
:“We were completely shocked,” he said. “This is a good family that appeared to be really nice people. They were really admired in the neighborhood.”
(Currently citation #4.) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 12:23, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: That quotation is describing the Dorner ''family'', not necessarily Chris Dorner. No? [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 14:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Precisely. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 14:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Pretty sure Chris Dorner is part of the Dorner family.[[Special:Contributions/74.79.239.198|74.79.239.198]] ([[User talk:74.79.239.198|talk]]) 15:01, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:I have members of family (unfortunately) who are in far-right hate groups, whereas I am the exact opposite. You can have a "nice" family with a bad member(s), or a "bad" family with a nice member(s). [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 15:03, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree with Giant Snowman. You can have a good person coming from a bad family, and you can have a bad person coming from a good family. In any event, that quotation above is describing the family as being "nice and admired", not Chris Dorner himself. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 18:05, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

== Edit request on February 9, 2013 ==

{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}

number of injured is 5 ( 2 police officers, 3 civilians )(2 of the civilians injured due to a incident of mistaken idenity)

[[User:Ommi9|Ommi9]] ([[User talk:Ommi9|talk]]) 04:46, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{ESp|n}}The civilians injured were unrelated incidents, even if caused by the shootings. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 17:15, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
::: Hard to make the claim that they were "unrelated". They were, in fact, ''directly'' related. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 20:20, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
:::: They are indeed directly related. The article currently has as much content about the manhunt and the police shooting of innocent civilians as there is content about the shootings perpetrated by Dorner, so showing the total injuries and adding a separate column for injuries caused by police isn't unreasonable at all. -- [[Special:Contributions/74.1.184.234|74.1.184.234]] ([[User talk:74.1.184.234|talk]]) 01:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::Perhaps, "unrelated" was the wrong word choice. The shootings of civilians was a result of the 2013 Southern California shootings, but wasn't part of the shootings. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 01:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
(outdent) would you mind clarifying please, Ryan? [[Special:Contributions/174.141.213.41|174.141.213.41]] ([[User talk:174.141.213.41|talk]]) 02:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== Serial killing as opposed to mass shooting ==

Doesn't this fit the definition of serial killing as opposed to mass killing? [[User:ScienceApe|ScienceApe]] ([[User talk:ScienceApe|talk]]) 04:51, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
:I don't think serial killing works at all because it requires a wait period between each killing. It's closer to a [[Spree shooting]] except the incidents seem to be too far apart for that. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 04:57, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

:Nope. The definition of a [[serial killer]] is given thusly:

::''An individual who has killed three or more people over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders, and whose motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification.''

:The suspect in this case does not fit this description because he has not gone through the "cooling off period" and his motive is not based on his own gratification. If you want to change the description from "mass killer" to "serial killer", you are going to need a source. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 05:00, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

::It may be closer to the operative definition used on the [[spree killer]] page. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 19:50, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

::: Prisondermonkeys, well from what I can tell Dorner has declared war against the LAPD, and his goals are creating change, not personal gratification, so I really don't see serial killer applying.
::: The best thing to do seems to be to refer to outside reliable sources, and see what labels/descriptive terms they are using. --[[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 04:56, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

::::This isn't a serial killing or mass killer. Spree killer is closer. But as the targets are individually chosen, it is closer to assassinations and spree killing.[[Special:Contributions/203.184.41.226|203.184.41.226]] ([[User talk:203.184.41.226|talk]]) 03:03, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

:::::Dorner's actions are neither serial killing nor mass killing, and they do not fit the usual definition of spree killing either. I think "assassination" is most accurate, as the victims have been chosen from a pre-designated list that Dorner made, based on their perceived "value" (Dorner's word) as "targets" (Dorner's word) in his campaign to bring attention to his cause.

::::::The problem here is that all the 3 declarations contain the word "killer" but are actually meaning "murderer". A soldier in a war might "kill" a series of people but normally soldiers are not being called "serial killers". I mention that because this destinction would not allow to call Dorner one of those 3 names mentioned above as long as one is prepared to assume that his motivation is rational and altruistic - which remains to be seen (until now he's technically not even prooven guilty of anything). In that case he would not fullfill the definition of a murderer (in the tighter sense of the word) and while above mentioned termins contain "killer" they still require the person to actually be a "murderer" in order to be applicable. (Of course my personal take on the subject). So we may well require a very different term - maybe vigilante or so (?). — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.195.73.220|92.195.73.220]] ([[User talk:92.195.73.220|talk]]) 17:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC) 
::::::: Domestic [[Terrorist]] or [[Insurgent]] are probably closer to describing the [[asymetric warfare]] described in his manifesto, and such terms have been used sporadically in the media. [[Special:Contributions/63.192.83.15|63.192.83.15]] ([[User talk:63.192.83.15|talk]]) 23:41, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== Manifesto in link is not the correct version ==

/b/ has inserted the last parts about tv-shows like shark week and personalities like Bill Cosby. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/212.130.113.36|212.130.113.36]] ([[User talk:212.130.113.36|talk]]) 12:31, 9 February 2013 (UTC) 

: This. Simply because the manifesto is longer does not mean it is the un-redacted and "most correct" version. Here's the real version. http://pastebin.com/qPMFkJwp --[[Special:Contributions/118.148.235.31|118.148.235.31]] ([[User talk:118.148.235.31|talk]]) 14:07, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

::Agreed, this is the one that was first posted. All these pop culture references et cetera were added about a day later. Either remove the later (longer) one entirely or at least point out that there are two versions which were posted with a day apart. [[Special:Contributions/5.146.44.24|5.146.44.24]] ([[User talk:5.146.44.24|talk]]) 02:58, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

:::This is becoming annoying. The link keeps getting changed. Did he really say all of that stuff about Cosby and Anonymous or not? [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 03:28, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
I think we should leave the manifesto out for the time being. There appears to be a movement among some editors to link to it, and I believe that they are doing this to try and garner some kind of sympathy for Dorner. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:04, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:"... I believe that they are doing this to try and garner some kind of sympathy for Dorner." Whether true or not true, that's immaterial, no? It either meets Wikipedia inclusion criteria or it doesn't, editorial motive(s) aside. And though I'm making the case that's immaterial, it seems reasonable to point out there are counter examples. E.g., in the current revision of section Police shootings of civilians, "the two women who were shot are expected to survive" was changed to "the two women were injured but are expected to survive." "Shot" is a particular form of injury, thus is desirably more specific regarding the event details than "injury." But the vague word choice "injured" is more charitable in tone to the LAPD than the specific nature of the women's injuries (having been struck by the police bullets). [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 02:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::The real question is what is accurate? And if we can't be sure of what is the real manifesto, then we need to either leave it out, or flag somehow that it may not be accurate. [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 20:22, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== "Police shootings of civilians" -- Reaction??? ==

The article will be improved, and [[WP:NPOV|more balanced]], when Wikipedia begins to cover reactions to the police shooting of civilians. It has been over 48 hours since the '''two separate incidents''' of LAPD Police shooting at vehicles where they had made no serious identification of the suspect being in either vehicle, and had no license plate match; the vehicle just "sorta, kinda" matched the description of the vehicle of the primary suspect. This seems to be a rather obvious and eggegious case of [[police misconduct]], or to keep it in the terminology of "alleged" and "suspect", of ''potential'' [[gross negligence]] by [[police misconduct|police]].

Has there been no reaction by [[civil libertarians]], [[Police accountability|police watch]] groups, etc.? Really? My sense is that surely there are notable statements by notable [[Police accountability|police watchdog]] groups, and some [[WP:RS|reliable source]] news coverage of the [[civil society|reaction]] to the police getting things so horribly wrong. Where is the [[police accountability]], and is that not a valid topic for coverage on Wikipedia? [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 19:47, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

: I'm not seeing much so far, [http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5htoNponho2oH70eWXJVNvatQYbqA?docId=d425400444524a45bd0cfdc4d41358d9 this] was the only thing I found relating to the ACLU and this case, but perhaps I'm missing something. Google News is a good place to start. --[[User:Joe Decker|j⚛e decker]][[User talk:Joe Decker|talk]] 20:45, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

::I'm guessing there will be more in a few days. I still have not found any reliable source coverage of civil libertarian and police watchdog group reaction, but I did find a news source with the names of the victims of the first (of the two) police-on-civilian shootings, and a much fuller description of the two victims and how totally different both victims were in nearly every respect from the alleged perpetrator the police were looking for. I would hope that the internal affairs folks at LAPD have started an investigation, and will (eventually) have to answer questions on this alleged [[police misconduct]] by many journalists; would give us more info to flesh out that important aspect of the ''2013 Southern California shootings''. I've updated the article with some information from the one source I found. I expect we'll have more clarity in the coming weeks and days. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 01:25, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

::: I suspect you're right, that there'll be more on it, right now things are moving so fast I'd be .. in those shoes, I'd be expressing (and I have) huge concerns, but I also know just how badly one can undercut oneself by relying on facts that aren't nailed down. I'm sure we'll hear more, and more reliable takes on things, as this progresses. --[[User:Joe Decker|j⚛e decker]][[User talk:Joe Decker|talk]] 01:35, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== New section? - LAPD reopening case into Dorner's firing ==

I think it might need a new section, because I'm not sure where else it fits. But here are two artices on how these Dorner's have caused his case to be reopened by the LAPD, and how they are putting a spotlight on LAPD racism and abuses past and current.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/09/searchers-struggle-to-pick-up-trail-former-los-angeles-cop-wanted-in-killing/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fugitives-rant-puts-focus-evolving-lapd-legacy-18451078

Any suggestions on how to call the section? Does it fit under "reactions"? -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 05:05, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

:It's already mentioned in the timeline. It should probably stay there until something - if anything - comes of it. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:02, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
: Yes, I also think it is fine under "reactions" for now. Until more becomes of it. Thanks. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 12:45, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

:: Ah, I found it, under the "timeline of shootings", which seems that it should only include shootings. For now, I'll just adjust the title to "Timeline". When the article gets longer, and if there are more shootings, it'll probably make sense to break out the reactions into a new section. -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 16:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== Dorner's allegations (various) ==

How about they open a case, or the silent supposedly "liberal" media "open a case," into the following frighteningly believable section of Dorner's "manifesto"?
:"Don't honor these fallen officers/dirtbags. When your family members die, they just see you as extra overtime at a crime scene and at a perimeter. Why would you value their lives when they clearly don't value yours or your family members lives? I've heard many officers who state they see dead victims as ATV's, Waverunners, RV’s and new clothes for their kids. Why would you shed a tear for them when they in return crack a smile for your loss because of the impending extra money they will receive in their next paycheck for sitting at your loved ones crime scene of 6 hours because of the overtime they will accrue. They take photos of your loved ones recently deceased bodies with their cellphones and play a game of who has the most graphic dead body of the night with officers from other divisions. This isn't just the 20 something year old officers, this is the 50 year old officers with significant time on the job as well who participate."
I know, it's Wikipedia. But I mean good God. That's got to be "encyclopedia worthy" somehow. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 09:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:: Fortunately, it's not up to us to judge what is "encyclopedia worthy". Wikipedia standards refer to an event's "notability" by it's coverage in reliable 3rd party sources. If you find articles in mainstream publications describing this or any of his other allegation, then it may merit inclusion. -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 19:22, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Included information based all or in part on Dorner's essay (or sensationally labeled "manifesto") is uneven as best. As you know, Wikipedia strives for neutrality/objectivity. Thus far, it appears that pro-establishment (for lack of a less provocative term) details related to Dorner's essay are being afforded more weight than details less sympathetic to the authorities. (IMHO. And P.S., I do not believe I know who's "in the right" here overall. Certainly, I'm no advocate for murder ... regardless of which party or party representatives attempt or commit it.) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 02:01, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Current article title needs to be changed ==

The current article title of ''2013 Southern California shootings'' has got to be a contender to win some sort of award for the most vague, mealy mouthed Wikipedia article title ever. Shootings occur in Southern California by the hour if not the minute. It's only 10 Feb 2013: there will be hundreds if not thousands more shootings between now and the end of 2013 in Southern California. Will all shootings in 2013 in Southern California henceforth be included in this article? In that case, then what about shootings in 2013 in Northern California; shootings in 2012 in Southern California and in all previous years; shootings in the rest of the fifty states of the USA, broken down region by region? No one looking for details about the alleged conduct of Christopher Dorner is going to search for ''2013 Southern California shootings'' unless they already know the name of the article. An encyclopaedic article title needs to be precise, specific, and easily searchable and found. This applies to the Wikipedia article on [[Christopher Dorner]] by naming the article after the subject. In my view, this article needs to be merged, therefore, with that on [[Christopher Dorner]]. [[Special:Contributions/58.165.123.47|58.165.123.47]] ([[User talk:58.165.123.47|talk]]) 10:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
: The problem with your suggestion is this. This is an article about Dorner's killing spree, it is not an article about the life and biography of Dorner. That is why this article cannot be named "Christopher Dorner". I agree that this title needs fixing. But the new title has to focus on the murders/killing spree/shootings, not on the name of the perpetrator. Any suggestions? Thanks. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 12:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

::Concur with [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]]: article title needs changed; the new title should '''not''' be Christopher Dorner. It appears, at this point in time, to be a bonafide [[shooting spree]], where the suspect/perpetrator has not been located, so it is very likely a still unfolding event, and none of us know what form its end will take. So anyone with a good proposal for a better (possibly interim) article name, start a new Talk page section and propose it. Cheers. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 13:45, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

::: '''Title suggestion: Christopher Dorner shootings''' -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 16:02, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:::: Impossible for BLP reasons. He is still just a suspect, and has not been convicted of anything. --[[User:MelanieN|MelanieN]] ([[User talk:MelanieN|talk]]) 17:05, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
::::: Ah... makes sense. But could be add a modifier (e.g. "associated", "related")? I don't love this, but '''Christopher Dorner related shootings''' seems better than the current title. -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 19:25, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

'''Title suggestion: Christopher Dorner manifesto and connected shootings''' [[Special:Contributions/178.3.166.254|178.3.166.254]] ([[User talk:178.3.166.254|talk]]) 17:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

: Same BLP problem as above. Who said that this is his manifesto? And who said that he is doing the shooting? That's a big BLP problem. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 21:30, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

'''Title suggestion: 2013 Manhunt for Christopher Dorner'''
The difficulty with the title is connected to how the story has grown--and, in turn, how the focus of the story has shifted. (The following sentences omit some chronology for simplicity's sake.) Initially, the story was a shooting in Irvine with two fatalities. It was significant news in Orange County and Southern California in general, but not yet a nationally-notable event. Then, the LAPD name Dorner as a suspect in connection with the shootings, with all the attendant detail of his ex-LAPD past, Naval experience, etc. At that point, the focus of the story tends to shift from the initial shooting to Dorner himself and the related pursuit. The subsequent shootings of and by police officers in connection with this manhunt further distance the story from the initial shootings.

To that end, something along the lines of 2013 Manhunt for Christopher Dorner seems accurate and not an explicit BLP issue: there is no disputing the presence of the manhunt itself; referring to the manhunt does not necessarily imply guilt or complicity in the initial shootings. Maybe the term "manhunt" is a bit loaded, or overly dramatic, but I think that gets this article headed in the correct direction. The newsworthiness of the story—and I mean this solely in an editorial, zeitgeist-y sense—is that an ex-cop is being hunted across state and national lines in connection with etc., etc. The shootings were the precipitating event, and later an exacerbating one. The pursuit, however, is lasting, and more noteworthy. [[Special:Contributions/63.146.101.45|63.146.101.45]] ([[User talk:63.146.101.45|talk]]) 20:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Change needed: Third police-attacked civilian was injured despite reports ==

The sections mentioning the third civilian attacked by police require change, according to this article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story

First it needs to be clarified that the LAPD reported no **visible** injuries, instead of **no** injuries. Secondly it needs to be mentioned that he did get hurt, as a result of a police cruiser crashing into his car in an effort to stop him. The summary at the top of the article needs to be changed, as well as the last paragraph under "Police shootings of civilians". [[Special:Contributions/178.3.166.254|178.3.166.254]] ([[User talk:178.3.166.254|talk]]) 17:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== Correction to first paragraph - injury to third person in Torrance ==

Right now, the article says: "In two separate incidents during the manhunt, police shot at three innocent civilians, mistaking them for Dorner. Two of these people were injured, while the third was not.[3][4]"

The LATimes reports that the third person was injured, he was not shot, but that he sustained injuries:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story

"In Perdue's case, his attorney said he wasn't struck by bullets or glass but was injured in the car wreck, suffering a concussion and an injury to his shoulder. The LAX baggage handler hasn't been able to work since, and his car is totaled, Sheahen said. "When Torrance issues this ridiculous statement saying he wasn't injured, all they mean is he wasn't killed," his attorney said, referring to a press release reporting "no visible injuries" to Perdue." — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.83.211.186|71.83.211.186]] ([[User talk:71.83.211.186|talk]]) 18:10, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

== Torrance shootings ==

This is a fast-changing story. The LAT is printing new reports that should be included in this article

'''1. 7 officers opened fire. The neighborhood is pockmarked with bullet holes''' http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/08/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209

Law enforcement sources told The Times that at least seven officers opened fire. On Friday, the street was pockmarked with bullet holes in cars, trees, garage doors and roofs. Residents said they wanted to know what happened.

"How do you mistake two Hispanic women, one who is 71, for a large black male?" said Richard Goo, 62, who counted five bullet holes in the entryway to his house.

Glen T. Jonas, the attorney representing the women, said the police officers gave "no commands, no instructions and no opportunity to surrender" before opening fire. He described a terrifying encounter in which the pair were in the early part of their delivery route through several South Bay communities. Hernandez was in the back seat handing papers to her daughter, who was driving. Carranza would briefly slow the truck to throw papers on driveways and front walks.

As bullets tore through the cabin, the two women "covered their faces and huddled down," Jonas said. "They felt like it was going on forever."

'''2. Lots of Shots - Sounded like fireworks'''
http://redondobeach.patch.com/articles/gunshots-sounded-like-fireworks-torrance-shooting-witnesses-say

Neighbors reported hearing hearing more than a dozen rounds fired.

"The sound was surreal, sort of like fireworks!" said Lloyd Taylor, who owns Triathlon Lab in Redondo Beach. "As 30-40 shots were fired within sections at (approximately) 5 a.m.!"

In a comment left on Redondo Beach Patch, Alexander Starr also said the gunshots sounded like fireworks. "I woke up to the gunshots," he wrote. "Dozens of shots were fired, pop pop pop pop!"

"I shouldn't have peeked out my windows, but I did, and there were the cops in my driveway, shooting," Redondo Union High School chemistry teacher Linda Dillard told the school newspaper, the High Tide. "(Later) we just heard a lot of police orders, but the shooting was over."

Dillard told the High Tide that her and her husband's garage door and house were hit by bullets. The windows in her husband's car were hit, and her car had one bullet in it.

Also: http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/02/08/35886/attorney-two-women-shot-police-torrance-says-offic/

“It’s very unfortunate because they were just doing their job,” Goo said in an interview in front of his house. Goo, a cardiology technician, has lived in the neighborhood for eight years. He said he and his wife were in bed when they heard gunshots.

“We heard all this pop-pop-popping. And then I hit the ground, crawled around, dragged her out of bed, onto the floor and then laid on top of her,” he said.

When he called 911, Goo said the dispatcher told him the police were right outside his house and to stay in the back of his house until officers came to tell him it was clear. Several bullets from the shooting hit his house and cars. He believes between 30 and 50 rounds of shots were fired.

“When one of the ricochets hit off our glass door, I thought it had come through the door into our living room,” Goo remembered. “So I thought bullets were coming into the house."

'''3. Six Officers placed on admin leave'''

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/02/08/35886/attorney-two-women-shot-police-torrance-says-offic/

Six LAPD officers who took part in the "mistaken identity" shooting of two women delivering newspapers in Torrance on Thursday were placed on administrative leave while the women — Margie Carranza, 47, and her 71-year-old mother, Emma Hernandez — were expected to survive.

The women's lawyer, Glen Jonas, argues that the officers did not follow protocol or the rules of engagement when using deadly force. "With no warning, no command, or no instructions, LAPD opened fire on their vehicle," Jonas said.

== new section on civilians shot and injured is non neutral ==

New section does not reflect the actual injuries and is not neutral.
This description does not reflect the new reports:
"Approximately 25 minutes after that incident, officers from the Hollywood Division of the LAPD struck and opened fire on another vehicle, but reported that '''there were no injuries due to the actual shooting'''.[37]"

Should add: "The occupant, however, reported a concussion and shoulder injury due to the crash." — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.83.211.186|71.83.211.186]] ([[User talk:71.83.211.186|talk]]) 18:47, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

reference is http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.83.211.186|71.83.211.186]] ([[User talk:71.83.211.186|talk]]) 18:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

== When did the shooting of civilians take place? ==

Under Police shootings of civilians it says that it happened at about 5:30. However there doesn't appear to be any sources to back this claim up, and the sources I have read say that it happened at about 5:15 or 5:10.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/07/us/lapd-attacks-timeline/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_22548130/lapd-looking-dorner-accused-street-justice-opening-fire — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.6.204.35|68.6.204.35]] ([[User talk:68.6.204.35|talk]]) 19:06, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

== 1 moa ==

The comment about the shot challenge coin implying that the shot was taken at 100m is no accurate. 1 moa means that the shooter is accurate to one inch at 100yards. It also means .5 inch at 50 yards, or 2 inches at 200 yards. 1 moa makes no implication as to how far away the shot was actually taken — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/167.102.135.131|167.102.135.131]] ([[User talk:167.102.135.131|talk]]) 20:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

Doesn't the size of the coin, along with "1 moa" indicate how far away the shot was taken? E.g. if the target is a barn door, then 100m away is not 1moa. Likewise, if the target is a flea, then 1moa would occur at a distance shorter than 100m. I don't know how large the coin was, but I've been assuming that the size of the coin allowed for 1moa at 100m.
[[Special:Contributions/195.95.190.2|195.95.190.2]] ([[User talk:195.95.190.2|talk]]) 11:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== "Career with LAPD" inaccurate and biased ==

This section omits important and facts and appears to have been written by someone sympathetic to Dorner. It neglects to mention nearly all the evidence supporting Dorner's termination -- particularly the fact that Dorner initially said the use of force was justified. He later filed a complaint literally the day after receiving a negative performance review from the same officer he accuses of using excessive force. Also omitted is the victim's father's statement that he didn't think twice about the head wound because it wasn't serious. The Wikipedia article also mentions a videotaped interview with the alleged victim, mistakenly calling it a deposition. In the interview, the guy answers leading questions, appears to be coached by Dorner's attorney, and is never subjected to cross-examination. Much more relevant and important is the fact (omitted by Wikipedia) that the victim testified at the hearing and was described by the appeals court as "generally . . . incoherent and nonresponsive." And there's also the board that looked all these witnesses in the eye and decided Dorner was lying.

The appellate opinion is here: http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/christopher-dorner-v-lapd-case-file/

This article needs some serious revisions. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/172.15.132.133|172.15.132.133]] ([[User talk:172.15.132.133|talk]]) 23:56, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

:That article is not a [[WP:RELIABLE|reliable source]], and so cannor be included. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 08:06, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::Here's a link to another website with the appellate opinion, which denied Dorner's appeal.[http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In%20CACO%2020111003006.xml]. There's a lot of info there that may be useful in Wikipedia. Here's the site's [http://www.leagle.com/ home page], [http://www.leagle.com/aboutus.aspx about us page], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_somatotropin#cite_note-Ohio_decision-28 an example of the site's info being used elsewhere in Wikipedia]. It looks like a reliable source that publishes court records. --[[User:Bob K31416|Bob K31416]] ([[User talk:Bob K31416|talk]]) 16:51, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Dorner is the first US drone target ==

"Dorner has become the first human target for remotely-controlled airborne drones on US soil."[http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/376732/Man-hunt-for-ex-soldier-who-shot-police-chief-s-daughter-and-killed-policeman] [[Special:Contributions/71.212.251.104|71.212.251.104]] ([[User talk:71.212.251.104|talk]]) 00:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:Although implied, it does not actually say that these drones carry weapons. Frankly, I seriously doubt they would carry weapons, but certainly they will carry various sensors. [[User:Enquire|Enquire]] ([[User talk:Enquire|talk]]) 22:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Appeal decision ==

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3122542803286291629&hl=en&as_sdt=2,5

CHRISTOPHER DORNER, Plaintiff and Appellant,
v.
LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT et al., Defendants and Respondents.
No. B225674. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/46.20.45.98|46.20.45.98]] ([[User talk:46.20.45.98|talk]]) 01:53, 11 February 2013 (UTC) 

== Controlled Fire ? ==

Looking at a photography of the shot vehicle of Maggie Carranza and Emma Hernandez I was able to count way over 35 bullet holes in the back of the car. No idea what is assumed to be reasonable force in this case, but that's more than a full clip of a modern assault rifle, almost two of them ... and some shots have obviously missed as the back is peppered side to side. I believe that this level of aggression should be mentioned in the report. --[[Special:Contributions/92.195.211.51|92.195.211.51]] ([[User talk:92.195.211.51|talk]]) 02:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC) JB.
:Needs a reliable source. Most ACP police pistols can hold 18 rounds, 2 cops would be 36 rounds.--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 05:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

::Spiegel-Online, aka SPON, is a german web-newsletter with one of the widest ranges here. They show this REUTERS picture :
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/spezialeinheiten-jagen-cop-killer-dorner-fotostrecke-93012-7.html The comment states that two women were wounded in it by LA police hunting Dorner. I was successfull to circle 40 separate bullet holes and had about 10 more "probables". I guess that should be reliable enough, but I'm not a WikiPedia specialist and don't know for how long the image will be accessible under that link. BTW: It's my impression that two different calibres were used - a smaller with lots of shots and a larger with fewer ... like assault rifle and pistol ... but that's pure guesswork. Important for me is that the police can shoot the living daylight out of that poor car, fail to really "finish" its occupants (a blessing this time) ... and then call "stop police" or whatever they did after almost killing to ladies earning their life the hard way. --[[Special:Contributions/92.195.152.160|92.195.152.160]] ([[User talk:92.195.152.160|talk]]) 01:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC) JB.

== California residents now terrified and untrusting of police ==

Due to the unjustified police shootings of random people who do not fit Dorner's description, using the excuse that the person(s) fit the descripton of Dorner, many residents in California and throughout the United States are now terrified of the police. Specifically, they are afraid that any armed police officer or any police vehicle on the road is there to target whichever random law-abiding citizen(s) the police officer(s) feel like shooting or injuring using the excuse "I thought the person matched the description of Dorner." — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.167.3.43|74.167.3.43]] ([[User talk:74.167.3.43|talk]]) 19:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC) 

First paragraph: Irvine PD identified Dorner as the suspect in the first two homicides.

http://www.cityofirvine.org/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1&Entry=1458 — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.231.144.156|70.231.144.156]] ([[User talk:70.231.144.156|talk]]) 21:43, 11 February 2013 (UTC) 
:As you can't edit the article would you like us to add that? Is that your text or a quote from a source? Who used the word 'terrified'? We may have to quote them my name. I wonder if there is another source about how many dark pick-ups went up for sale in a hurry?--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 22:29, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Switch of outline to timeline structure ==

At some point recently, the article has been re-organized and re-written in a "time-line format" ... this might make it easier to add days with a diary of what happened on each day, kind-of like a rap-sheet. But, IMHO, this is not the best way to present this article in an informative manner (this is an encyclopedia, not a police diary). A time-line graphic, (perhaps vertical diagram on the right side of the page) or a table of dates and events would suffice under a stand-alone time-line section; but I feel that it is best to revert the body to a "Shootings" "Manifesto" and "Police Shootings" (etc.) structure for the main narrative. Comments? 
[[User:Enquire|Enquire]] ([[User talk:Enquire|talk]]) 21:59, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:[[Sinking of the RMS Titanic|This timeline article]] uses a similar format. Would that work better? --[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 22:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:: The page had a section called "Timeline of shootings", but then people started adding events to that section that there not shootings, so I relabeled it "Timeline". That made it a bit better; but it wasn't the best fix. I agree the article would be improved by reorganizing it. Probably leaving the shootings in a section called "shootings", but pulling everything else out into other sections -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 06:55, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== Manifesto details ==

After an [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2013_Southern_California_shootings&diff=prev&oldid=537760139 edit] by MathematicianO there is too much detailed information about the manifesto in the lead. I am therefore reverting it. If these details are too be included it must be in the body of the article. The lead is curently more detailed about the manifesto than the body, which is not how articles shall be written. There also seems to be a slight tendency to argue the case for Dorner in the mentioned edit. With regards, [[User:Iselilja|Iselilja]] ([[User talk:Iselilja|talk]]) 22:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:That may need consensus. Seems your edit was reverted. Should we discuss it in this section or start a new one?--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 22:21, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::We can discuss it here. I reverted it back again. What I think is pretty clear is that [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section|the lead]] shall never be more detailed and specific than the body of the article: "Apart from trivial basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." So, if people want to have more stuff from the manifesto in the article one should start with the body, and then a short summary can appear in the lead. With regards, [[User:Iselilja|Iselilja]] ([[User talk:Iselilja|talk]]) 22:31, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
: Dorner's expressed motive is extremely relevant and belongs in the lead. The current summary is overly vague, and actually is not neutral, and it was this I was trying to repair.
: I welcome your work in expanding the details in the body of the article.
: It discourages contributions if you remove a contributor's work in its entirety just because other parts of the article have not yet been properly developed. I believe such a reversion is entirely improper and should be rejected. Please undo your reversions of my contributions. [[User:Mathematician0|Mathematician0]] ([[User talk:Mathematician0|talk]]) 22:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::This may be an uphill battle unless the two articles are merged. The manifesto can be in the lead of Mr. Dormer's article because he is the subject there. This article is about the shootings, not Mr. Dormer.--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 12:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== Merge/redirect ==

I believe that [[WP:BLP1E]] in this case indicates that we should not have a separate article on Dorner, at least not at this point. --[[User:Joe Decker|j⚛e decker]][[User talk:Joe Decker|talk]] 16:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge/redirect''' - with no objection to the [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] article being spun back out as a separate article at some point in the future, should there be consensus to do that. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 16:14, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge/redirect''': Based on the guideline, I also support for now, with as '''GiantSnowman''' said, no objection whatsoever to the possibility of a separate article in the future. [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 17:09, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support Merge/Redirect''' - There is no need for a separate article at this time. All relevant information can be covered here. If the suspect becomes notable in his own right later on, we can easily make a split. In the meantime, it makes more sense to work on one unified article, and allow a separate bio article to grow as a section, if it does. [[User:Bigdan201|Bigdan201]] ([[User talk:Bigdan201|talk]]) 18:17, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes <-- He has a page what's the difference.--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 18:56, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strong support to keep separate''' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes has a page so should he.--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 18:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:*[[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]]. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 19:55, 8 February 2013 (UTC
::Or to put it another way-- if you believe that there is a comparison, then explain why the two cases are comparable, and your example applies here, and is a sufficient argument to support your point. [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 20:19, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strong support to merge under [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] article only''' - His name is more notable than his crimes. The guy's become an antihero, and this will only grow IMHO. He's not your common-or-garden ordinary criminal. He's intelligent, liberal,{{cn}} has sympathetic issues, writes well, and is well informed. He's also about to be killed on sight. American to the core. [[User:JohnClarknew|JohnClarknew]] ([[User talk:JohnClarknew|talk]]) 19:48, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::See this: [[List of serial killers in the United States]]. Every one of them blue linkable. [[User:JohnClarknew|JohnClarknew]] ([[User talk:JohnClarknew|talk]]) 03:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge/redirect''' to [[2013 Southern California shootings]] per standard Wikipedia policy for such cases. [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)]] states '' "A person who is known only in connection with a criminal event or trial should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there is an existing article that could incorporate the available encyclopedic material relating to that person." '' There is such an article, and that is where information about this individual should go. He is not notable for anything else. --[[User:MelanieN|MelanieN]] ([[User talk:MelanieN|talk]]) 22:40, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge'''. I mistakenly originally nominated the article for AfD but withdrew my nomination. As of this time there is not enough coverage to warrant an independent article; see [[WP:BLP1E]]. In terms of case studies, there may be a time when he is [[WP:PERSISTENCE|mentioned enough to be significant]], but that will happen later, not now, and [[WP:CRYSTAL|it's not our place to judge if that will happen]]. '''[[User:Elektrik Shoos|elektrik]][[Special:Contributions/Elektrik Shoos|SHOOS]]''' ([[User talk:Elektrik Shoos|talk]]) 22:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
* '''Support merge''' back into this article. Wikipedia guidelines are clear on this. The perpetrator of a single crime (or crime spree) is not notable for a biography page except in the case when a single article becomes overly long. [[WP:PERP]] -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 04:45, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 
*'''Support merger''' of [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] to [[2013 Southern California shootings]]. The subject of the biography article is only notable due to the shootings that have occurred (so far only) in Southern California, and events related to the subject. Therefore, the subject of the biography article falls under [[WP:BLP1E]]. I understand that there are concerns about the name of this article, and perhaps there should be a separate discussion about possible renaming, but that does not have to do directly with the merger proposal.--[[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]] ([[User talk:RightCowLeftCoast|talk]]) 19:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose Merge''' It seems to me that many here don't understand [[WP:BLP1E]]. The intention of BLP1E is to keep the plethora of minor figures within an event from being notable enough from having an article, but its intention never was to prevent major characters of the event from having an article. Clear misinterpretation of BLP1E by just about everyone claiming it here.--[[User:Jojhutton|JOJ]] [[User talk:Jojhutton|Hutton]] 20:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
::Please see [[WP:CRIMINAL]]: {{quote|A person who is known only in connection with a criminal event or trial should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there is an existing article that could incorporate the available encyclopedic material relating to that person.}}
::As such, since there is already this article, the biography article shouldn't exist unless the subject of the biography article becomes independently notable beyond the crimes he is ''alleged'' to have committed, or if this article becomes to large per [[WP:LIMIT]]. As a reservist, the subject is not independently notable per [[WP:SOLDIER]]. As a police officer, the subject is not notable, as his service in the Los Angeles Police Department is more of a background to the events that lead up to the alleged criminal acts.--[[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]] ([[User talk:RightCowLeftCoast|talk]]) 21:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' It's a good idea to merge, but the title [[2013 Southern California shootings]] assumes that this will be the only shooting spree in Southern California this year. Hopefully it will be, but the proposed title could be more specific. Perhaps the merge should be the other way, into [[Christopher Dorner]]? Or a third title? [[User:Paris1127|Paris1127]] ([[User talk:Paris1127|talk]]) 20:31, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - I have been supporting the merge, but recent developments, such as the substantial reward and label of domestic terrorist has tipped my viewpoint in favor of keeping this article in its own context. I see this individual as having a significant impact upon criminal and popular culture. Therefore, I am now opposed to this merge. [[User:DarthBotto|DarthBotto]] [[User talk:DarthBotto|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/DarthBotto|cont]] 22:48, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strongly oppose merge''' Not only is Christopher Dorner a notable criminal suspect, but this is an ongoing situation. We have already beaten back the overzealous "AfD Cops" who wanted his article deleted on Notability grounds. Now they would have his story reduced to a paragraph or two in the main article related to his alleged crime spree. Maybe we don't need a [[James Eagan Holmes]] page. Maybe we should delete the page for [[Jared Lee Loughner]]. Or maybe what we really need is a 48 hour cooling off period before ANY AfD or merge gets proposed in the first place to stop the AfD storm troopers from acting with such haste. My next door neighbor is a capable single father and a very likeable guy who I call my friend. But he isn't notable enough to have a Wikipedia page. Christopher Dorner, on the other hand, is the subject of the largest manhunt in LA County history, a situation that is increasing in notability because of the LAPD's handling of the case and their shooting and otherwise attacking people who do not resemble Dorner in any way. [[User:Michaelh2001|AlaskaMike]] ([[User talk:Michaelh2001|talk]]) 23:07, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose Merge''' Dorner is becoming independently notable aside from the event itself. [[User:ScienceApe|ScienceApe]] ([[User talk:ScienceApe|talk]]) 23:16, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' When people recommend merging to this article [[2013 Southern California shootings]], the actual name of this article is irrelevant. They are really saying "merge to an article about the shooting incidents and manhunt, rather than the individual." It's quite possible that a better name for this article will emerge with time. But it should still be the main and only article, per [[WP:CRIMINAL]], unless and until the Dorner section of it becomes meaty enough to spin off. --[[User:MelanieN|MelanieN]] ([[User talk:MelanieN|talk]]) 23:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' [[WP:BLP1E]] is meant to be for one event, the plural of the name shootings and the info in the article shows that a series of shootings took place with widespread media coverage for each one. Thus this passes the criteria for a stand alone article ([[WP:GNG]]). - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 01:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::The subject of this article, per the name, encompasses all the shootings, and the attempted boat hijacking in San Diego. Now unless, the hijacking (piracy?) is considered a separate event, the subject is primarily known for the series of events that have occurred in the past week which this article treats as one subject.--[[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]] ([[User talk:RightCowLeftCoast|talk]]) 04:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose Merge''' As per [[WP:BIO1E]] "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate". The highly significant event in this case being the unprecedented manhunt, and the equally unprecedented reward posted.-[[User:Kiwipat|Kiwipat]] ([[User talk:Kiwipat|talk]]) 08:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC). Further, in regards to [[WP:BLP1E]] this "should be applied only to biographies of ''low-profile individuals''". I think Dorner has moved beyond ''low-profile''–-[[User:Kiwipat|Kiwipat]] ([[User talk:Kiwipat|talk]]) 16:59, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strongly oppose merge''' It seems a no-brainer at this point, with no disrespect intended. [[User:Elizabeth Blandra|Elizabeth Blandra]] ([[User talk:Elizabeth Blandra|talk]]) 16:55, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose Merge''', however, I do support merging biographical detail from this this page into the [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] page. There is way too much biographical information on this page, which is probably why some feel that a merge is appropriate. There needs to be a clear delineation between the pages, which is not quite clear right now. This page should be limited to a (very) brief bio (with links to the other page), and focus on the events. [[User:Enquire|Enquire]] ([[User talk:Enquire|talk]]) 21:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge/redirect''' to this article. As pointed out above, a spin out article on Dorner may be appropriate in future; however, he is so far only notable for this event (or collection of events if you wish). It is a current event and therefore highly significant at this time, but its historical significance remains to be seen. Many spree killers do not have their own article, although they were the subject of intense scrutiny and in the limelight at the time of their incident (ex: [[James Huberty]] redirects to San Ysidro McDonald's massacre, [[Jiverly Wong]] redirects to Binghamton shootings--note the blue links). Incidentally, BLP1E does not say it should only be applied to low-profile individuals; it says, it should be applied if the person is low-profile, which is quite different. [[WP:BIO1E]], [[WP:BLP1E]], [[WP:CRIMINAL]]--all apply at this time. [[User:Richigi|Richigi]] ([[User talk:Richigi|talk]]) 23:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merger''' of [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] to [[2013 Southern California shootings]]. Per [[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]]. Seems like an obvious place to apply [[WP:BLP1E]]. [[User:NickCT|NickCT]] ([[User talk:NickCT|talk]]) 14:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strongly Oppose merger'''. His notability is now off the charts. To not have a biographical article on him would be as insane as he is. [[User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] ([[User talk:Rreagan007|talk]]) 20:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Let's take a deep breath''' - How about we all hold off for one week after resolution of this (e.g., capture, death, etc.) and resume the discussion then. [[User: Go Phightins!|'''Go''']] [[User talk:Go Phightins!|'''''Phightins''''']][[Special:Contributions/Go_Phightins!|'''!''']] 21:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strong support merge''' his only notability comes from the shooting incident. Both [[Treyvon Martin]] and [[George Zimmerman]] redirect to [[Shooting of Trayvon Martin]]. This seems to be the norm on WP, and this should be the same. --[[User:IP98|IP98]] ([[User talk:IP98|talk]]) 22:20, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I am seeing alot of [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]] here, "Look at article x", "Article y redirects to article c so this one should too" all of these are weak arguements for a merge. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 23:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
**'''Reply''' I believe the correct wikipedia policy to cite here would be [[WP:CONSISTENCY]]. --[[User:IP98|IP98]] ([[User talk:IP98|talk]]) 00:59, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
***You are overstepping the [[WP:CONSISTENCY]] policy, [[WP:CONSISTENCY]] is for english usage in articles and is part of [[WP:MOS]]. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 01:56, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support of Merger''' - As far as I have seen, Dorner is only notable because of the shootings. I believe a merger would be alright, followed by a possible spinoff article at a later date. --[[User:Super Goku V|Super Goku V]] ([[User talk:Super Goku V|talk]]) 23:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support redirect/merge''' per [[WP:BLP1E]] and [[WP:PERP]]. Dorner's only notability is in relation to the shootings. Any biographical notes on him are background to the shootings and belong here. I could see a biographical article being spun off in the future, though, depending on the outcome of the manhunt. [[User:Oren0|Oren0]] ([[User talk:Oren0|talk]]) 00:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose merge''' '''''[[Wikipedia:BIO1E#People_notable_for_only_one_event|"If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate."]]''''' People are misunderstanding the purpose of BLP1E. Furthermore, Dorner's page is large and will only become larger. If the pages were merged, then the main article may no longer be comfortably readable. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 04:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== Proposed merger to [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] ==

See [[Talk:Christopher Jordan Dorner#Proposed merger from 2013 Southern California shootings]] --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 23:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Cut down the "suspect" section? ==

It seems that the section on the "Suspect" is far, far too long as there exists a separate Christopher Dorner article. I think the section should a significantly reduced in size.

What do people think about replacing the entire "Naval Reservist" and "Career with LAPD sections" with 1-2 sentences each?

-- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== Dump the "Timeline"? ==

Here's what I'd propose in it's place:

* Package received by Anderson cooper
* Shootings attributed to suspect
* Reopening of investigation
* Reward
* Plus the existing Manhunt and Shootings of Civilians by Police sections.

-- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

==Endgame?==

*[http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/manhunt-christopher-dorner-big-bear.html Christopher Dorner in gun battle with authorities, source says] — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/219.88.195.150|219.88.195.150]] ([[User talk:219.88.195.150|talk]]) 21:26, 12 February 2013 (UTC) 
:We aren't in a hurry. I think we should be wary of 'source says' material being added. Newspapers can quote un-named sources, but I don't think we can.--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 23:42, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== edit request ==

I made this request already at [[Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard]]. Someone agreed with it, but no one made the change for me. I'm asking that the second paragraph be changed to read as below.

A [[manifesto]] posted <ref name = "myFOXla_2013-02-06"/><ref name = "ABC.au_2013-02-08"/><ref name = "LAist_2013-02-07"/> on Facebook,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=8988394|title=Christopher Dorner search: Criminal charges filed|author=John North, Rob McMillan, Robert Holguin, Leanne Suter, Q McCray, Amy Powell and Melissa MacBride|date=2013-02-11|accessdate=2013-02-11}}</ref> which police say was written by Dorner,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/08/dorner-manifesto_n_2644813.html
|title=Dorner Manifesto: Suspected Gunman Talks Politics, Pop Culture In His 'Last Resort'
|author=The Associated Press
|date=2013-02-08
|accessdate=2013-02-11}}</ref> declared "[[Unconventional warfare|unconventional]] and [[asymmetric warfare]]" upon the [[Los Angeles Police Department]], their families, and their associates, until the LAPD admitted publicly he was fired in retaliation for reporting [[excessive force]].

[[User:Rybec|Rybec]] ([[User talk:Rybec|talk]]) 23:21, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Camyoung54|Camyoung54]] [[User talk:Camyoung54|talk]] 01:14, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Another request, mention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_off in why ammo is exploding, there's some confusion among why shots are going off.
[[User:Dietcoketm|Dietcoketm]] ([[User talk:Dietcoketm|talk]]) 00:50, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Camyoung54|Camyoung54]] [[User talk:Camyoung54|talk]] 01:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

{{edit protected|answered=yes}} Dorner's name is misspelled as Dormer under the Big Bear section. [[Special:Contributions/174.141.213.44|174.141.213.44]] ([[User talk:174.141.213.44|talk]]) 02:09, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{already done}} [[User:Camyoung54|Camyoung54]] [[User talk:Camyoung54|talk]] 03:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

The unchecked news report of "ammo exploding" is probably based on a local reporter hearing sounds and making assumptions. It is more likely "aerosol cans exploding" in the heat. For accuracy, this should be phrased as "explosions were heard from within the fire, possibly aerosol cans [ or ammunition, if that sensational turn of phrase is required]. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.14.59.118|24.14.59.118]] ([[User talk:24.14.59.118|talk]]) 02:53, 13 February 2013 (UTC) 
:{{not done}} The ammo exploding is mentioned in the news reports cited. [[User:Camyoung54|Camyoung54]] [[User talk:Camyoung54|talk]] 03:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== 2 women held hostage? ==

Would they count as "injured"-which would leave the total to 9-considering Dorner tied them down before stealing their car? [[User:CloudKade11|CloudKade11]] ([[User talk:CloudKade11|talk]]) 02:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== Puzzling original research regarding said “cabin” ==
The building identified by media as the cabin occupied by a person matching Dorner’s description appears to actually be the office for http://7oaksmtncabins.com/ and not an actual rental unit.[http://i45.tinypic.com/20957ya.png][http://i46.tinypic.com/3590gmc.png]

Oh and supposedly they’re open year-round. ―[[special:contributions/cobaltcigs|cobaltcigs]] 02:47, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== All in All ==

The coverage on the last day... we nailed it in an extremely timely manner. Kudos to all. [[User:Kennvido|Kennvido]] ([[User talk:Kennvido|talk]]) 03:56, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt

2013-02-13T04:00:52Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Merge/redirect */

{{talk header}}
{{blpo}}
{{WPBS|
{{WikiProject Crime|class=current|importance=low}}
{{WikiProject California|importance=low|la=yes|inland-empire=yes}}
{{WikiProject Law enforcement}}
{{WikiProject Biography|living=no|blpo=yes}}
}}
{{ITN note|2013 Southern California shootings|date=12 February 2013}}
=="Accidental Shooting"==
I do not think it is appropriate to use the term "accidental shooting" or "mistakenly fired" when it was very clearly intentional shooting. An "accidental shooting" might be where someone fires a weapon, but did not intend to. The same goes with "mistakenly fired". I do not think there is any source that suggests the firing of the weapons was mistaken. WHO they thought they were shooting was a mistake. But this was no accident and they weren't mistakenly fired weapons. More accurate would be "attempted assassination", but I'd settle for something at least true and neutral. [[User:Promontoriumispromontorium|Promontoriumispromontorium]] ([[User talk:Promontoriumispromontorium|talk]]) 03:25, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:I made the simple and very neutral change to "Civilian shooting," along with consistent edits in the body of that section. (Plus a few corrections, such as from "Doner" to "Dorner.") [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 03:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

It would be interesting to add: were they just shooting into an occupied vehicle with no idea who was in it or did they mistake 2 women for 1 300 pound bald man?
:It would be interesting, but I think against the grain of Wikipedia article guidelines. :) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Should I delete this now that it's been changed?[[User:Promontoriumispromontorium|Promontoriumispromontorium]] ([[User talk:Promontoriumispromontorium|talk]]) 20:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

:I think it's helpful and illuminating to see discussion history remain within the Talk section, but that's just me for all I know. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 15:40, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

:Promontoriumispromontorium, such deletions are specifically against Wikipedia policy. See [[WP:TALKO]]. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 23:30, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Unredacted manifesto ==

The media have been releasing heavily censored versions of Dorner's manifesto, which may or may not protect them legally (although I doubt it makes much of a difference) but it makes it difficult to google the names to figure out what happened in the incidents he's upset about. I was able to find [http://youranonnews.tumblr.com/post/42506354980/heres-an-uncensored-copy-of-the-rogue-lapd-officers an uncensored copy here]. [[Special:Contributions/71.215.66.32|71.215.66.32]] ([[User talk:71.215.66.32|talk]]) 21:29, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

http://pastebin.com/TAzPRfPy is a more readable version. [[Special:Contributions/71.215.66.32|71.215.66.32]] ([[User talk:71.215.66.32|talk]]) 21:35, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Who can say what is uncensored if the original page was taken down? The "more readable" version is labled as "scrubbed by the media" and identical to the "uncensored" one. Until consensus exists on what are the actual words of the accused perpetrator, the reference should be left out of the article IMHO. [[Special:Contributions/70.36.212.48|70.36.212.48]] ([[User talk:70.36.212.48|talk]]) 23:31, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
:Well it's the same as the censored versions, except with the names of his co-workers he's complaining about, many of whom are googlable to confirm the incidents he refers to. Who would release a version with made-up names? I don't know whether it should go in the article or not, but it's got to be useful for people doing research on background, and for finding news report sources that *should* go in the article. [[Special:Contributions/71.215.66.32|71.215.66.32]] ([[User talk:71.215.66.32|talk]]) 00:09, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::Agreed. On this point, his alleged conduct is immaterial. His allegations are specific and clearly relevant to the event; in fact, they constitute his (alleged) motive. Redacted versions of the document are markedly less clear and illuminating than what thus far consistently appears on various sites as an unedited version. It is admittedly unverifiable at this juncture, but *the edited/redacted version isn't from an original source, either*. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 05:42, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:Most media outlets are "leaving out" a great deal more than that, per the pastebin link above. Your very selective details are patently political, which doesn't serve the objective of Wikipedia. Best solution is to simply have the pastebin link included in the article. Note that in addition to many other details, that link includes those you have chosen to highlight. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 05:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: You're right, I agree I deleted my comment.--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 06:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Wikipedia people can be so mature relative to the Internet norm it's at times astonishing. :D [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:14, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

-- for you guys/gals at Wikipedia to not mention Chris Dorner's decisively left wing views is not surprising. He is a Left-Wing Extremist/Terrorist. He should be identified in the opening paragraph of the article as that. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.113.216.234|99.113.216.234]] ([[User talk:99.113.216.234|talk]]) 20:17, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 

Dorner's personal war against law enforcement, particularly the LAPD, is essentially a war on a local government, and his threats to all other law enforcement constitute, essentially, a war on government in totality. Note that "right wing" terrorist Timothy McVeigh has a section on his wikipedia article that identifies his religious and political beliefs. So should there not be a section on Dorner's article that identifies him as a left wing extremist agnostic (perhaps atheist) ???? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.113.216.234|99.113.216.234]] ([[User talk:99.113.216.234|talk]]) 20:33, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 

Quote from the manifesto include ' I’m not a fucking Christian '. He notes his support of most of President Obama's domestic policies as well. Praises Michelle Obama, and accuses Mitt Romney of being a sore loser.

er, this is wikipedia folks. You don't expect the FACTS about an Obama-supporting, left-wing spree killer to actually make into the article, do you? [[Special:Contributions/72.37.249.60|72.37.249.60]] ([[User talk:72.37.249.60|talk]]) 22:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I have strong reason to think that the manifesto referenced is actually a badly edited copy of the one put up by Dorner; there's a few severely out-of-character points, such as the sudden shout of support for the Anonymous movement. PaseteBin is a haven for anonymously posting these sorts of things on the parts of e-activists. I have strong suspicion this was made by such an activist who wished to put words conforming to their ideology in Dorner's mouth -- some passages just read very differently and out-of-place. [[Special:Contributions/86.21.137.79|86.21.137.79]] ([[User talk:86.21.137.79|talk]]) 23:16, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

There is a lot of concern about the manifesto
There appear to be at least THREE versions floating online from mainstream media sources
one with redacted names
one with names
and the one referenced in this wiki article with names AND a lot of left wing stuff about guns etc
We need to get 100% confirmation on this currently referenced manifesto that includes gun control references etc
I have seen a lot online that CLAIMS this version is fake — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.96.196.253|74.96.196.253]] ([[User talk:74.96.196.253|talk]]) 11:19, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

A section called "Manifesto versions" (or something like that) should be added to the article, since many are floating around and I'm personally skeptical about the one with all the pop culture references.. from what I understand it was done by /b/ and news sources are citing it as accurate. The reason I find the longer version to be less credible is that it contains much more spelling mistakes, and seems to change style.[[User:Nonfaridere|Nonfaridere]] ([[User talk:Nonfaridere|talk]]) 23:42, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

: I agree. A section titled "Manifesto variations" -- with coverage of what this means and a brief description of the variations -- would be most welcome. I, for one, blindly followed a link at Wikipedia to the supposedly "unredacted" version only to later find sources that claim the version in question is a deliberate fake due to containing spuriously added material. This is definitely part of the story, and it can be told without finger-pointing, just describing it as a factual by-product of the event. [[Special:Contributions/70.36.137.192|70.36.137.192]] ([[User talk:70.36.137.192|talk]]) 23:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Inaccurate characterization: "In the manifesto he blames racism for his predicament." ==

He consistently and explicitly blames whistleblower retaliation for his predicament.
[[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 02:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

== OWS Reaction ==

From an earlier revision of the article, as of now removed by an IP user:

"Revolutionary groups like [[Occupied Wall Street]] supported Dorner’s actions and called him a hero.[http://occupywallst.org/forum/christopher-jordan-dorner-is-a-true-patriot-hero-l/ Christopher Jordan Dorner Is A True Patriot Hero: LAPD Getting Everything It Deserves.]"

As the article is clearly marked as "not an official statement" on the website, I share the opinion of the IP user that this should not be included, but I'd like to place it here for debate. --[[User:MCaecilius|MCaecilius]] ([[User talk:MCaecilius|talk]]) 02:57, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:Are his supporters, or even whom he supports unless they are linked to his motives (retaliation for alleged whistleblower retaliation), remotely germane to the topic of the article? What's to discuss? [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 03:20, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I concur that this statement does not belong, as the linked OWS post is clearly labeled as anonymous user content on their website and obviously in no way is an official statement from OWS, which, to the original user who inserted that quote, stands for "Occupy" Wall Street, not "Occupied." [[User:Bosterson|Bosterson]] ([[User talk:Bosterson|talk]]) 03:22, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

== Referenced citations do not include specified details re. vehicle. ==
Dorner's Nissan Titan is silver and the newspaper truck is a blue Toyota Tacoma. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.130.178.237|72.130.178.237]] ([[User talk:72.130.178.237|talk]]) 07:20, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 

Neither source 15 nor 16 include the following descriptions: "The vehicle did not have its lights on in the dark, and had tinted windows, obstructing officers' ability to see into the vehicle, which may have raised their suspicion." I removed that statement, but include it here in the event there is a neutral reference for it and it is deemed applicable information. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 04:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

I saw the vehicle. You can see the vehicle. It had tinted windows http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/07/16888732-women-shot-by-cops-were-just-delivering-papers#comments
:A *reference/citation* providing that information is precisely the point. Alas, insofar as whether I would agree the source you provide shows tinted windows, for me that URL just hangs. Maybe too much traffic, who knows. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:Ah, it opened. It shows only the rear window as tinted. If the side window is closed, then it isn't tinted. So, "partially tinted windows"? Or perhaps we can agree that it's a somewhat trivial detail? What's that detail's function, to make the presumption the vehicle's driver was Christopher Jordan Dorner more "reasonable" before opening fire on its occupants? [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:10, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

The tint to me? Did they mistake the two women for 1 300 pound bald Dorner or were they unable to see what they were shooting at? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/216.132.14.34|216.132.14.34]] ([[User talk:216.132.14.34|talk]]) 06:24, 8 February 2013 (UTC) 

:In California, tinted windshields or side windows are illegal, and it would be very unusual fr a newspaper delivery truck at night to not have both headlights and dome light on. I would need to see a reliable source for any claim to the contrary. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 23:36, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

==Needs a better name==
The current name, '''2013 Southern California shootings''', is accurate to this series of events, but also includes in its name all the other 2013 shootings in socal, which there will be a lot of. can we wedge in a word or two addressing how its police officer related? i dont have any bright ideas, but i think this name is way too generic. We can probably wait to see if the media comes up with a name, aside from the suspect himself.([[User:Mercurywoodrose]])[[Special:Contributions/99.157.205.137|99.157.205.137]] ([[User talk:99.157.205.137|talk]]) 04:35, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:Change article name to "Christopher Jordan Dorner"? (BTW I'd be signed in but the "forgot my credentials e-mail" never arrived in my inbox.) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 04:46, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: Disagree. This is an article about the ''killing spree'', not about the ''individual'' named Dorner. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 05:43, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Okay. I thought perhaps his related notoriety made that title acceptable, but maybe not. Either way, I understand the suggestion the title is too vague. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 06:04, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

::::I direct your attention to [[WP:PERP]], which states the following:

:::::''A living person accused of a crime is presumed not guilty unless and until this is decided by a court of law. Editors must give serious consideration to not creating an article on an alleged perpetrator when no conviction is yet secured.''

::::We can't name the article after Dorner, because to do so would imply his guilt. We have no way of knowing whether it is actually Dorner who is committing these crimes. For all we know, someone killed him two weeks ago and used his rage and frustration at being fired as an excuse to go on a killing spree targeting the LAPD. Yes, that sounds like bad fiction (I made it up just now), but it highlights my point: we can't prove that Dorner is doing this - not until he stands trial - so we can't name the article after him. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::Thanks. Understood. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 07:36, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::If Dorner is dead, as you suggest in your scenario, and for all we know he may be, then [[WP:PERP]] does not apply because as your own quote makes clear, [[WP:PERP]] only applies to a ''living person''. [[Special:Contributions/58.165.123.47|58.165.123.47]] ([[User talk:58.165.123.47|talk]]) 10:05, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
I kind of agree. What happens god forbid.. If he kills anyone in another state or country?--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 06:10, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:Then we address the issue if and when it happens. In the meantime, we can't go inventing names for it because that is [[WP:OR|original research]].

:Remember, Wikipedia [[WP:NOTNEWS|is not news]]. There is no hurry to add information to the article simply because it has become available. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because something has been reported, it is automatically notable enough for inclusion. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::No one asked you--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 11:59, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:::In that case, I suppose nobody asked you, either.

:::You have asked what we should do in the event that the suspect crosses a state or national border and kills someone there. Allow me to respond to your question with a question of my own: ''has'' the suspect crossed a state or national border and killed someone there? If the answer is no, then why are we even discussing it? [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 12:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::::Pay attention to exactly to what I responded to! It was in reponse to your Wikipedia is not News. No one asked you for all that!--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 12:32, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:::::I put that there for a reason: Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a news bulletin. There is no hurry to add content to a page simply because it has been reported. A lot of that content might not even be relevent to the actual article.

:::::For instance, an early version of this article had details of where Monica Quan and Keith Lawrence went to school and what they did for work. Any connection to the suspect was added as an afterthought. None of that content actually had anything to do with the article, which is the problem editors fall into when they rush to add content to a page.

:::::What I'm trying to say is that you should avoid falling into the trap of [[WP:RECENTISM|recentism]]. Just because something has happened, that doesn't automatically mean that it is notable enough for Wikipedia. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 12:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::::::We will likely have an article on the person, in addition to an article on this series of killings. I should point out the person is highly notable now, despite not having been convicted, and a case could be made for creating an article for him now, as long as the article is entirely neutral about what he has not demonstrably done. As for my idea for renaming, i think the best thing is to watch the news media, and if any sort of consensus shakes down as to a name for this, we can use it. I also recognize that we often use a name for such events that is really not used in media, like the tsunami in japan, where we chose precision over common usage.[[User:Mercurywoodrose|Mercurywoodrose]] ([[User talk:Mercurywoodrose|talk]]) 15:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

::::::::Have you read some of the edits that have been made? There are people who are trying to turn the suspect into a folk hero. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 02:23, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
::::::::: Yeah, it's a terrible name. I suggest '''Christopher Dorner Shootings'''. -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 04:41, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

===Suggestion: 2013 Police Assassinations ===
I suggest 2013 Police Assassinations. It's more descriptive as it's not certain what the article's title is referring to. An uptick in police shootings in SoCal, or what? It's too vague.
[[User:Elryacko|Elryacko]] ([[User talk:Elryacko|talk]]) 17:37, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:meh... Police officers weren't the only victims.--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 18:18, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree. Of the three killed ("assassinated") so far, only one was a police officer. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 19:17, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Name of article is absurd. There were and are more than just this "set" of killings and it is only February. "Whistleblower Cop Rampage Killings" is as descriptive. Wait for and then use whatever name sticks, and if no name does stick, just merge into article on Dorner. 2013 Sothern California Police Assassinations almost works, but the young lady killed was not police. "2013 Rogue cop Vendetta" works better, as he is doing more than killing. He is terrifying law enforcement throughout SoCal. [[User:Madame L'Auteur|Madame L'Auteur]] ([[User talk:Madame L'Auteur|talk]]) 07:14, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
: I agree. The name of the article is absurd. It needs to be changed or the article needs to be merged with the existing article on [[Christopher Dorner]]. See my comments below. [[Special:Contributions/58.165.123.47|58.165.123.47]] ([[User talk:58.165.123.47|talk]]) 10:31, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

What if it were titled "LAPD Killer" or "LAPD Revenge Killings" or "LAPD Revenge Killer" or something to that effect? Nearly everyone involved were in the LAPD or were related to the LAPD. The primary threat is against the LAPD. You could tack on 2013 for more specificity. [[User:Promontoriumispromontorium|Promontoriumispromontorium]] ([[User talk:Promontoriumispromontorium|talk]]) 20:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:Another possibility, "Christopher Jordan Dorner shootings". In this story in the media, Dorner's name seems to be mentioned more than LAPD. --[[User:Bob K31416|Bob K31416]] ([[User talk:Bob K31416|talk]]) 23:39, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== No reference to or implication of quantity or frequency ==

"And had altercations with many students due to his race." The section of the referenced document (Dorner's) describing childhood altercations related to race offers no indication there were "many" such incidents. "Multiple times" is not sufficient for such an inference. I will remove the word "many" for that reason.
In evidence, with apologies for the length, here is the entire applicable paragraph:
:Journalist, I want you to investigate every location I resided in growing up. Find any incidents where I was ever accused of being a bully. You won't, because it doesn't exist. It's not in my DNA. Never was. I was the only black kid in each of my elementary school classes from first grade to seventh grade in junior high and any instances where I was disciplined for fighting was in response to fellow students provoking common childhood schoolyard fights, or calling me a nigger or other derogatory racial names. I grew up in neighborhoods where blacks make up less than 1%. My first recollection of racism was in the first grade at Norwalk Christian elementary school in Norwalk, CA. A fellow student, Jim Armstrong if I can recall, called me a nigger on the playground. My response was swift and non-lethal. I struck him fast and hard with a punch an kick. He cried and reported it to a teacher. The teacher reported it to the principal. The principal swatted Jim for using a derogatory word toward me. He then for some unknown reason swatted me for striking Jim in response to him calling me a nigger. He stated as good Christians we are to turn the other cheek as Jesus did. Problem is, I'm not a fucking Christian and that old book, made of fiction and limited non-fiction, called the bible, never once stated Jesus was called a nigger. How dare you swat me for standing up for my rights for demanding that I be treated as a equal human being. That day I made a life decision that i will not tolerate racial derogatory terms spoken to me. Unfortunately I was swatted multiple times for the same exact reason up until junior high. Terminating me for telling the truth of a caucasian officer kicking a mentally ill man is disgusting. Don't ever call me a fucking bully. I want all journalist to utilize every source you have that specializes in collections for your reports. With the discovery and evidence available you will see the truth. Unfortunately, I will not be alive to see my name cleared. That's what this is about, my name. A man is nothing without his name. Below is a list of locations where I resided from childhood to adulthood.
(I hope it is appropriate to include the paragraph here; apologies if otherwise.) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 04:39, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

:Don't rely on the manifesto as a source. It's not [[WP:RELIABLE|reliable]]. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:33, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::In that case, the detail that Dorner had race-related altercations as a child would need to be omitted altogether. But aren't first-hand accounts reliable, at least as perspective information for the involved parties, if they are reported in news accounts by sources generally regarded as reliable? The only difference is that their version is in most but not all instances redacted and/or partial. If the non-redacted version otherwise matches the version offered by reliable sources, why would the "non-redacted" version not be regarded as a reliable first-person account? Indeed, according to the journalistic sources in question, the "manifesto" being referenced is acknowledged by law enforcement as being Dorner's. Similar points regarding verifiability. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 07:56, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::You know, I'll leave my comment there for potential contribution to the debate, but I'll respond to myself with the note that I think you're right. On reflection, it occurs to me that there's no way for us to have reasonable confidence Dorner wrote all or any of that document merely because law enforcement states he did. Law enforcement statements unto themselves reported by reliable sources cannot automatically be regarded as reliable information for citation. (Maybe an exercise in lateral thinking at best, but one might even idly wonder whether the "manifesto" could be a forgery designed to give a select law enforcement body the latitude to summarily execute someone.) In the encyclopedia, such information needs to be based on in-depth retrospective (after events more fully unfold) analyses from those generally reliable sources, not their "real-time" reporting. I yield to your perspective as I understand it. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 08:26, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

== Neighbors of his described him as [x] person who usually kept to himself. ==

It was changed from "an admirable" to "a quiet." I changed it back to "admirable" because the article cited does say admirable (specifically, "admired"). And it mentions nothing of "quiet." Don't edit to fit your preconceived narratives; stick to the source information. Doesn't matter whether it sounds odd to you (it does to me, too). From the cited article:
:“We were completely shocked,” he said. “This is a good family that appeared to be really nice people. They were really admired in the neighborhood.”
(Currently citation #4.) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 12:23, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: That quotation is describing the Dorner ''family'', not necessarily Chris Dorner. No? [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 14:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Precisely. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 14:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Pretty sure Chris Dorner is part of the Dorner family.[[Special:Contributions/74.79.239.198|74.79.239.198]] ([[User talk:74.79.239.198|talk]]) 15:01, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:I have members of family (unfortunately) who are in far-right hate groups, whereas I am the exact opposite. You can have a "nice" family with a bad member(s), or a "bad" family with a nice member(s). [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 15:03, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:: I agree with Giant Snowman. You can have a good person coming from a bad family, and you can have a bad person coming from a good family. In any event, that quotation above is describing the family as being "nice and admired", not Chris Dorner himself. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 18:05, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

== Edit request on February 9, 2013 ==

{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}

number of injured is 5 ( 2 police officers, 3 civilians )(2 of the civilians injured due to a incident of mistaken idenity)

[[User:Ommi9|Ommi9]] ([[User talk:Ommi9|talk]]) 04:46, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{ESp|n}}The civilians injured were unrelated incidents, even if caused by the shootings. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 17:15, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
::: Hard to make the claim that they were "unrelated". They were, in fact, ''directly'' related. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 20:20, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
:::: They are indeed directly related. The article currently has as much content about the manhunt and the police shooting of innocent civilians as there is content about the shootings perpetrated by Dorner, so showing the total injuries and adding a separate column for injuries caused by police isn't unreasonable at all. -- [[Special:Contributions/74.1.184.234|74.1.184.234]] ([[User talk:74.1.184.234|talk]]) 01:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:::::Perhaps, "unrelated" was the wrong word choice. The shootings of civilians was a result of the 2013 Southern California shootings, but wasn't part of the shootings. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 01:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
(outdent) would you mind clarifying please, Ryan? [[Special:Contributions/174.141.213.41|174.141.213.41]] ([[User talk:174.141.213.41|talk]]) 02:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== Serial killing as opposed to mass shooting ==

Doesn't this fit the definition of serial killing as opposed to mass killing? [[User:ScienceApe|ScienceApe]] ([[User talk:ScienceApe|talk]]) 04:51, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
:I don't think serial killing works at all because it requires a wait period between each killing. It's closer to a [[Spree shooting]] except the incidents seem to be too far apart for that. [[User:Ryan Vesey|'''''Ryan''''']] [[User talk:Ryan Vesey|'''''Vesey''''']] 04:57, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

:Nope. The definition of a [[serial killer]] is given thusly:

::''An individual who has killed three or more people over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders, and whose motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification.''

:The suspect in this case does not fit this description because he has not gone through the "cooling off period" and his motive is not based on his own gratification. If you want to change the description from "mass killer" to "serial killer", you are going to need a source. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 05:00, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

::It may be closer to the operative definition used on the [[spree killer]] page. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 19:50, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

::: Prisondermonkeys, well from what I can tell Dorner has declared war against the LAPD, and his goals are creating change, not personal gratification, so I really don't see serial killer applying.
::: The best thing to do seems to be to refer to outside reliable sources, and see what labels/descriptive terms they are using. --[[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 04:56, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

::::This isn't a serial killing or mass killer. Spree killer is closer. But as the targets are individually chosen, it is closer to assassinations and spree killing.[[Special:Contributions/203.184.41.226|203.184.41.226]] ([[User talk:203.184.41.226|talk]]) 03:03, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

:::::Dorner's actions are neither serial killing nor mass killing, and they do not fit the usual definition of spree killing either. I think "assassination" is most accurate, as the victims have been chosen from a pre-designated list that Dorner made, based on their perceived "value" (Dorner's word) as "targets" (Dorner's word) in his campaign to bring attention to his cause.

::::::The problem here is that all the 3 declarations contain the word "killer" but are actually meaning "murderer". A soldier in a war might "kill" a series of people but normally soldiers are not being called "serial killers". I mention that because this destinction would not allow to call Dorner one of those 3 names mentioned above as long as one is prepared to assume that his motivation is rational and altruistic - which remains to be seen (until now he's technically not even prooven guilty of anything). In that case he would not fullfill the definition of a murderer (in the tighter sense of the word) and while above mentioned termins contain "killer" they still require the person to actually be a "murderer" in order to be applicable. (Of course my personal take on the subject). So we may well require a very different term - maybe vigilante or so (?). — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.195.73.220|92.195.73.220]] ([[User talk:92.195.73.220|talk]]) 17:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC) 
::::::: Domestic [[Terrorist]] or [[Insurgent]] are probably closer to describing the [[asymetric warfare]] described in his manifesto, and such terms have been used sporadically in the media. [[Special:Contributions/63.192.83.15|63.192.83.15]] ([[User talk:63.192.83.15|talk]]) 23:41, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== Manifesto in link is not the correct version ==

/b/ has inserted the last parts about tv-shows like shark week and personalities like Bill Cosby. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/212.130.113.36|212.130.113.36]] ([[User talk:212.130.113.36|talk]]) 12:31, 9 February 2013 (UTC) 

: This. Simply because the manifesto is longer does not mean it is the un-redacted and "most correct" version. Here's the real version. http://pastebin.com/qPMFkJwp --[[Special:Contributions/118.148.235.31|118.148.235.31]] ([[User talk:118.148.235.31|talk]]) 14:07, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

::Agreed, this is the one that was first posted. All these pop culture references et cetera were added about a day later. Either remove the later (longer) one entirely or at least point out that there are two versions which were posted with a day apart. [[Special:Contributions/5.146.44.24|5.146.44.24]] ([[User talk:5.146.44.24|talk]]) 02:58, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

:::This is becoming annoying. The link keeps getting changed. Did he really say all of that stuff about Cosby and Anonymous or not? [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 03:28, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
I think we should leave the manifesto out for the time being. There appears to be a movement among some editors to link to it, and I believe that they are doing this to try and garner some kind of sympathy for Dorner. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:04, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:"... I believe that they are doing this to try and garner some kind of sympathy for Dorner." Whether true or not true, that's immaterial, no? It either meets Wikipedia inclusion criteria or it doesn't, editorial motive(s) aside. And though I'm making the case that's immaterial, it seems reasonable to point out there are counter examples. E.g., in the current revision of section Police shootings of civilians, "the two women who were shot are expected to survive" was changed to "the two women were injured but are expected to survive." "Shot" is a particular form of injury, thus is desirably more specific regarding the event details than "injury." But the vague word choice "injured" is more charitable in tone to the LAPD than the specific nature of the women's injuries (having been struck by the police bullets). [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 02:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::The real question is what is accurate? And if we can't be sure of what is the real manifesto, then we need to either leave it out, or flag somehow that it may not be accurate. [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 20:22, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== "Police shootings of civilians" -- Reaction??? ==

The article will be improved, and [[WP:NPOV|more balanced]], when Wikipedia begins to cover reactions to the police shooting of civilians. It has been over 48 hours since the '''two separate incidents''' of LAPD Police shooting at vehicles where they had made no serious identification of the suspect being in either vehicle, and had no license plate match; the vehicle just "sorta, kinda" matched the description of the vehicle of the primary suspect. This seems to be a rather obvious and eggegious case of [[police misconduct]], or to keep it in the terminology of "alleged" and "suspect", of ''potential'' [[gross negligence]] by [[police misconduct|police]].

Has there been no reaction by [[civil libertarians]], [[Police accountability|police watch]] groups, etc.? Really? My sense is that surely there are notable statements by notable [[Police accountability|police watchdog]] groups, and some [[WP:RS|reliable source]] news coverage of the [[civil society|reaction]] to the police getting things so horribly wrong. Where is the [[police accountability]], and is that not a valid topic for coverage on Wikipedia? [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 19:47, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

: I'm not seeing much so far, [http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5htoNponho2oH70eWXJVNvatQYbqA?docId=d425400444524a45bd0cfdc4d41358d9 this] was the only thing I found relating to the ACLU and this case, but perhaps I'm missing something. Google News is a good place to start. --[[User:Joe Decker|j⚛e decker]][[User talk:Joe Decker|talk]] 20:45, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

::I'm guessing there will be more in a few days. I still have not found any reliable source coverage of civil libertarian and police watchdog group reaction, but I did find a news source with the names of the victims of the first (of the two) police-on-civilian shootings, and a much fuller description of the two victims and how totally different both victims were in nearly every respect from the alleged perpetrator the police were looking for. I would hope that the internal affairs folks at LAPD have started an investigation, and will (eventually) have to answer questions on this alleged [[police misconduct]] by many journalists; would give us more info to flesh out that important aspect of the ''2013 Southern California shootings''. I've updated the article with some information from the one source I found. I expect we'll have more clarity in the coming weeks and days. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 01:25, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

::: I suspect you're right, that there'll be more on it, right now things are moving so fast I'd be .. in those shoes, I'd be expressing (and I have) huge concerns, but I also know just how badly one can undercut oneself by relying on facts that aren't nailed down. I'm sure we'll hear more, and more reliable takes on things, as this progresses. --[[User:Joe Decker|j⚛e decker]][[User talk:Joe Decker|talk]] 01:35, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== New section? - LAPD reopening case into Dorner's firing ==

I think it might need a new section, because I'm not sure where else it fits. But here are two artices on how these Dorner's have caused his case to be reopened by the LAPD, and how they are putting a spotlight on LAPD racism and abuses past and current.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/09/searchers-struggle-to-pick-up-trail-former-los-angeles-cop-wanted-in-killing/

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fugitives-rant-puts-focus-evolving-lapd-legacy-18451078

Any suggestions on how to call the section? Does it fit under "reactions"? -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 05:05, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

:It's already mentioned in the timeline. It should probably stay there until something - if anything - comes of it. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 07:02, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
: Yes, I also think it is fine under "reactions" for now. Until more becomes of it. Thanks. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 12:45, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

:: Ah, I found it, under the "timeline of shootings", which seems that it should only include shootings. For now, I'll just adjust the title to "Timeline". When the article gets longer, and if there are more shootings, it'll probably make sense to break out the reactions into a new section. -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 16:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== Dorner's allegations (various) ==

How about they open a case, or the silent supposedly "liberal" media "open a case," into the following frighteningly believable section of Dorner's "manifesto"?
:"Don't honor these fallen officers/dirtbags. When your family members die, they just see you as extra overtime at a crime scene and at a perimeter. Why would you value their lives when they clearly don't value yours or your family members lives? I've heard many officers who state they see dead victims as ATV's, Waverunners, RV’s and new clothes for their kids. Why would you shed a tear for them when they in return crack a smile for your loss because of the impending extra money they will receive in their next paycheck for sitting at your loved ones crime scene of 6 hours because of the overtime they will accrue. They take photos of your loved ones recently deceased bodies with their cellphones and play a game of who has the most graphic dead body of the night with officers from other divisions. This isn't just the 20 something year old officers, this is the 50 year old officers with significant time on the job as well who participate."
I know, it's Wikipedia. But I mean good God. That's got to be "encyclopedia worthy" somehow. [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 09:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:: Fortunately, it's not up to us to judge what is "encyclopedia worthy". Wikipedia standards refer to an event's "notability" by it's coverage in reliable 3rd party sources. If you find articles in mainstream publications describing this or any of his other allegation, then it may merit inclusion. -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 19:22, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:::Included information based all or in part on Dorner's essay (or sensationally labeled "manifesto") is uneven as best. As you know, Wikipedia strives for neutrality/objectivity. Thus far, it appears that pro-establishment (for lack of a less provocative term) details related to Dorner's essay are being afforded more weight than details less sympathetic to the authorities. (IMHO. And P.S., I do not believe I know who's "in the right" here overall. Certainly, I'm no advocate for murder ... regardless of which party or party representatives attempt or commit it.) [[Special:Contributions/74.67.54.145|74.67.54.145]] ([[User talk:74.67.54.145|talk]]) 02:01, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Current article title needs to be changed ==

The current article title of ''2013 Southern California shootings'' has got to be a contender to win some sort of award for the most vague, mealy mouthed Wikipedia article title ever. Shootings occur in Southern California by the hour if not the minute. It's only 10 Feb 2013: there will be hundreds if not thousands more shootings between now and the end of 2013 in Southern California. Will all shootings in 2013 in Southern California henceforth be included in this article? In that case, then what about shootings in 2013 in Northern California; shootings in 2012 in Southern California and in all previous years; shootings in the rest of the fifty states of the USA, broken down region by region? No one looking for details about the alleged conduct of Christopher Dorner is going to search for ''2013 Southern California shootings'' unless they already know the name of the article. An encyclopaedic article title needs to be precise, specific, and easily searchable and found. This applies to the Wikipedia article on [[Christopher Dorner]] by naming the article after the subject. In my view, this article needs to be merged, therefore, with that on [[Christopher Dorner]]. [[Special:Contributions/58.165.123.47|58.165.123.47]] ([[User talk:58.165.123.47|talk]]) 10:27, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
: The problem with your suggestion is this. This is an article about Dorner's killing spree, it is not an article about the life and biography of Dorner. That is why this article cannot be named "Christopher Dorner". I agree that this title needs fixing. But the new title has to focus on the murders/killing spree/shootings, not on the name of the perpetrator. Any suggestions? Thanks. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 12:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

::Concur with [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]]: article title needs changed; the new title should '''not''' be Christopher Dorner. It appears, at this point in time, to be a bonafide [[shooting spree]], where the suspect/perpetrator has not been located, so it is very likely a still unfolding event, and none of us know what form its end will take. So anyone with a good proposal for a better (possibly interim) article name, start a new Talk page section and propose it. Cheers. [[User:N2e|N2e]] ([[User talk:N2e|talk]]) 13:45, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

::: '''Title suggestion: Christopher Dorner shootings''' -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 16:02, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
:::: Impossible for BLP reasons. He is still just a suspect, and has not been convicted of anything. --[[User:MelanieN|MelanieN]] ([[User talk:MelanieN|talk]]) 17:05, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
::::: Ah... makes sense. But could be add a modifier (e.g. "associated", "related")? I don't love this, but '''Christopher Dorner related shootings''' seems better than the current title. -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 19:25, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

'''Title suggestion: Christopher Dorner manifesto and connected shootings''' [[Special:Contributions/178.3.166.254|178.3.166.254]] ([[User talk:178.3.166.254|talk]]) 17:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

: Same BLP problem as above. Who said that this is his manifesto? And who said that he is doing the shooting? That's a big BLP problem. [[User:Joseph A. Spadaro|Joseph A. Spadaro]] ([[User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro|talk]]) 21:30, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

'''Title suggestion: 2013 Manhunt for Christopher Dorner'''
The difficulty with the title is connected to how the story has grown--and, in turn, how the focus of the story has shifted. (The following sentences omit some chronology for simplicity's sake.) Initially, the story was a shooting in Irvine with two fatalities. It was significant news in Orange County and Southern California in general, but not yet a nationally-notable event. Then, the LAPD name Dorner as a suspect in connection with the shootings, with all the attendant detail of his ex-LAPD past, Naval experience, etc. At that point, the focus of the story tends to shift from the initial shooting to Dorner himself and the related pursuit. The subsequent shootings of and by police officers in connection with this manhunt further distance the story from the initial shootings.

To that end, something along the lines of 2013 Manhunt for Christopher Dorner seems accurate and not an explicit BLP issue: there is no disputing the presence of the manhunt itself; referring to the manhunt does not necessarily imply guilt or complicity in the initial shootings. Maybe the term "manhunt" is a bit loaded, or overly dramatic, but I think that gets this article headed in the correct direction. The newsworthiness of the story—and I mean this solely in an editorial, zeitgeist-y sense—is that an ex-cop is being hunted across state and national lines in connection with etc., etc. The shootings were the precipitating event, and later an exacerbating one. The pursuit, however, is lasting, and more noteworthy. [[Special:Contributions/63.146.101.45|63.146.101.45]] ([[User talk:63.146.101.45|talk]]) 20:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Change needed: Third police-attacked civilian was injured despite reports ==

The sections mentioning the third civilian attacked by police require change, according to this article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story

First it needs to be clarified that the LAPD reported no **visible** injuries, instead of **no** injuries. Secondly it needs to be mentioned that he did get hurt, as a result of a police cruiser crashing into his car in an effort to stop him. The summary at the top of the article needs to be changed, as well as the last paragraph under "Police shootings of civilians". [[Special:Contributions/178.3.166.254|178.3.166.254]] ([[User talk:178.3.166.254|talk]]) 17:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

== Correction to first paragraph - injury to third person in Torrance ==

Right now, the article says: "In two separate incidents during the manhunt, police shot at three innocent civilians, mistaking them for Dorner. Two of these people were injured, while the third was not.[3][4]"

The LATimes reports that the third person was injured, he was not shot, but that he sustained injuries:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story

"In Perdue's case, his attorney said he wasn't struck by bullets or glass but was injured in the car wreck, suffering a concussion and an injury to his shoulder. The LAX baggage handler hasn't been able to work since, and his car is totaled, Sheahen said. "When Torrance issues this ridiculous statement saying he wasn't injured, all they mean is he wasn't killed," his attorney said, referring to a press release reporting "no visible injuries" to Perdue." — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.83.211.186|71.83.211.186]] ([[User talk:71.83.211.186|talk]]) 18:10, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

== Torrance shootings ==

This is a fast-changing story. The LAT is printing new reports that should be included in this article

'''1. 7 officers opened fire. The neighborhood is pockmarked with bullet holes''' http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/08/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130209

Law enforcement sources told The Times that at least seven officers opened fire. On Friday, the street was pockmarked with bullet holes in cars, trees, garage doors and roofs. Residents said they wanted to know what happened.

"How do you mistake two Hispanic women, one who is 71, for a large black male?" said Richard Goo, 62, who counted five bullet holes in the entryway to his house.

Glen T. Jonas, the attorney representing the women, said the police officers gave "no commands, no instructions and no opportunity to surrender" before opening fire. He described a terrifying encounter in which the pair were in the early part of their delivery route through several South Bay communities. Hernandez was in the back seat handing papers to her daughter, who was driving. Carranza would briefly slow the truck to throw papers on driveways and front walks.

As bullets tore through the cabin, the two women "covered their faces and huddled down," Jonas said. "They felt like it was going on forever."

'''2. Lots of Shots - Sounded like fireworks'''
http://redondobeach.patch.com/articles/gunshots-sounded-like-fireworks-torrance-shooting-witnesses-say

Neighbors reported hearing hearing more than a dozen rounds fired.

"The sound was surreal, sort of like fireworks!" said Lloyd Taylor, who owns Triathlon Lab in Redondo Beach. "As 30-40 shots were fired within sections at (approximately) 5 a.m.!"

In a comment left on Redondo Beach Patch, Alexander Starr also said the gunshots sounded like fireworks. "I woke up to the gunshots," he wrote. "Dozens of shots were fired, pop pop pop pop!"

"I shouldn't have peeked out my windows, but I did, and there were the cops in my driveway, shooting," Redondo Union High School chemistry teacher Linda Dillard told the school newspaper, the High Tide. "(Later) we just heard a lot of police orders, but the shooting was over."

Dillard told the High Tide that her and her husband's garage door and house were hit by bullets. The windows in her husband's car were hit, and her car had one bullet in it.

Also: http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/02/08/35886/attorney-two-women-shot-police-torrance-says-offic/

“It’s very unfortunate because they were just doing their job,” Goo said in an interview in front of his house. Goo, a cardiology technician, has lived in the neighborhood for eight years. He said he and his wife were in bed when they heard gunshots.

“We heard all this pop-pop-popping. And then I hit the ground, crawled around, dragged her out of bed, onto the floor and then laid on top of her,” he said.

When he called 911, Goo said the dispatcher told him the police were right outside his house and to stay in the back of his house until officers came to tell him it was clear. Several bullets from the shooting hit his house and cars. He believes between 30 and 50 rounds of shots were fired.

“When one of the ricochets hit off our glass door, I thought it had come through the door into our living room,” Goo remembered. “So I thought bullets were coming into the house."

'''3. Six Officers placed on admin leave'''

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/02/08/35886/attorney-two-women-shot-police-torrance-says-offic/

Six LAPD officers who took part in the "mistaken identity" shooting of two women delivering newspapers in Torrance on Thursday were placed on administrative leave while the women — Margie Carranza, 47, and her 71-year-old mother, Emma Hernandez — were expected to survive.

The women's lawyer, Glen Jonas, argues that the officers did not follow protocol or the rules of engagement when using deadly force. "With no warning, no command, or no instructions, LAPD opened fire on their vehicle," Jonas said.

== new section on civilians shot and injured is non neutral ==

New section does not reflect the actual injuries and is not neutral.
This description does not reflect the new reports:
"Approximately 25 minutes after that incident, officers from the Hollywood Division of the LAPD struck and opened fire on another vehicle, but reported that '''there were no injuries due to the actual shooting'''.[37]"

Should add: "The occupant, however, reported a concussion and shoulder injury due to the crash." — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.83.211.186|71.83.211.186]] ([[User talk:71.83.211.186|talk]]) 18:47, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

reference is http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.83.211.186|71.83.211.186]] ([[User talk:71.83.211.186|talk]]) 18:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

== When did the shooting of civilians take place? ==

Under Police shootings of civilians it says that it happened at about 5:30. However there doesn't appear to be any sources to back this claim up, and the sources I have read say that it happened at about 5:15 or 5:10.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/07/us/lapd-attacks-timeline/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_22548130/lapd-looking-dorner-accused-street-justice-opening-fire — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.6.204.35|68.6.204.35]] ([[User talk:68.6.204.35|talk]]) 19:06, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

== 1 moa ==

The comment about the shot challenge coin implying that the shot was taken at 100m is no accurate. 1 moa means that the shooter is accurate to one inch at 100yards. It also means .5 inch at 50 yards, or 2 inches at 200 yards. 1 moa makes no implication as to how far away the shot was actually taken — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/167.102.135.131|167.102.135.131]] ([[User talk:167.102.135.131|talk]]) 20:53, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

Doesn't the size of the coin, along with "1 moa" indicate how far away the shot was taken? E.g. if the target is a barn door, then 100m away is not 1moa. Likewise, if the target is a flea, then 1moa would occur at a distance shorter than 100m. I don't know how large the coin was, but I've been assuming that the size of the coin allowed for 1moa at 100m.
[[Special:Contributions/195.95.190.2|195.95.190.2]] ([[User talk:195.95.190.2|talk]]) 11:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== "Career with LAPD" inaccurate and biased ==

This section omits important and facts and appears to have been written by someone sympathetic to Dorner. It neglects to mention nearly all the evidence supporting Dorner's termination -- particularly the fact that Dorner initially said the use of force was justified. He later filed a complaint literally the day after receiving a negative performance review from the same officer he accuses of using excessive force. Also omitted is the victim's father's statement that he didn't think twice about the head wound because it wasn't serious. The Wikipedia article also mentions a videotaped interview with the alleged victim, mistakenly calling it a deposition. In the interview, the guy answers leading questions, appears to be coached by Dorner's attorney, and is never subjected to cross-examination. Much more relevant and important is the fact (omitted by Wikipedia) that the victim testified at the hearing and was described by the appeals court as "generally . . . incoherent and nonresponsive." And there's also the board that looked all these witnesses in the eye and decided Dorner was lying.

The appellate opinion is here: http://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/christopher-dorner-v-lapd-case-file/

This article needs some serious revisions. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/172.15.132.133|172.15.132.133]] ([[User talk:172.15.132.133|talk]]) 23:56, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 

:That article is not a [[WP:RELIABLE|reliable source]], and so cannor be included. [[User:Prisonermonkeys|Prisonermonkeys]] ([[User talk:Prisonermonkeys|talk]]) 08:06, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::Here's a link to another website with the appellate opinion, which denied Dorner's appeal.[http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In%20CACO%2020111003006.xml]. There's a lot of info there that may be useful in Wikipedia. Here's the site's [http://www.leagle.com/ home page], [http://www.leagle.com/aboutus.aspx about us page], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_somatotropin#cite_note-Ohio_decision-28 an example of the site's info being used elsewhere in Wikipedia]. It looks like a reliable source that publishes court records. --[[User:Bob K31416|Bob K31416]] ([[User talk:Bob K31416|talk]]) 16:51, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Dorner is the first US drone target ==

"Dorner has become the first human target for remotely-controlled airborne drones on US soil."[http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/376732/Man-hunt-for-ex-soldier-who-shot-police-chief-s-daughter-and-killed-policeman] [[Special:Contributions/71.212.251.104|71.212.251.104]] ([[User talk:71.212.251.104|talk]]) 00:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:Although implied, it does not actually say that these drones carry weapons. Frankly, I seriously doubt they would carry weapons, but certainly they will carry various sensors. [[User:Enquire|Enquire]] ([[User talk:Enquire|talk]]) 22:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Appeal decision ==

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3122542803286291629&hl=en&as_sdt=2,5

CHRISTOPHER DORNER, Plaintiff and Appellant,
v.
LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT et al., Defendants and Respondents.
No. B225674. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/46.20.45.98|46.20.45.98]] ([[User talk:46.20.45.98|talk]]) 01:53, 11 February 2013 (UTC) 

== Controlled Fire ? ==

Looking at a photography of the shot vehicle of Maggie Carranza and Emma Hernandez I was able to count way over 35 bullet holes in the back of the car. No idea what is assumed to be reasonable force in this case, but that's more than a full clip of a modern assault rifle, almost two of them ... and some shots have obviously missed as the back is peppered side to side. I believe that this level of aggression should be mentioned in the report. --[[Special:Contributions/92.195.211.51|92.195.211.51]] ([[User talk:92.195.211.51|talk]]) 02:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC) JB.
:Needs a reliable source. Most ACP police pistols can hold 18 rounds, 2 cops would be 36 rounds.--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 05:34, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

::Spiegel-Online, aka SPON, is a german web-newsletter with one of the widest ranges here. They show this REUTERS picture :
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/spezialeinheiten-jagen-cop-killer-dorner-fotostrecke-93012-7.html The comment states that two women were wounded in it by LA police hunting Dorner. I was successfull to circle 40 separate bullet holes and had about 10 more "probables". I guess that should be reliable enough, but I'm not a WikiPedia specialist and don't know for how long the image will be accessible under that link. BTW: It's my impression that two different calibres were used - a smaller with lots of shots and a larger with fewer ... like assault rifle and pistol ... but that's pure guesswork. Important for me is that the police can shoot the living daylight out of that poor car, fail to really "finish" its occupants (a blessing this time) ... and then call "stop police" or whatever they did after almost killing to ladies earning their life the hard way. --[[Special:Contributions/92.195.152.160|92.195.152.160]] ([[User talk:92.195.152.160|talk]]) 01:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC) JB.

== California residents now terrified and untrusting of police ==

Due to the unjustified police shootings of random people who do not fit Dorner's description, using the excuse that the person(s) fit the descripton of Dorner, many residents in California and throughout the United States are now terrified of the police. Specifically, they are afraid that any armed police officer or any police vehicle on the road is there to target whichever random law-abiding citizen(s) the police officer(s) feel like shooting or injuring using the excuse "I thought the person matched the description of Dorner." — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.167.3.43|74.167.3.43]] ([[User talk:74.167.3.43|talk]]) 19:54, 11 February 2013 (UTC) 

First paragraph: Irvine PD identified Dorner as the suspect in the first two homicides.

http://www.cityofirvine.org/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1&Entry=1458 — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.231.144.156|70.231.144.156]] ([[User talk:70.231.144.156|talk]]) 21:43, 11 February 2013 (UTC) 
:As you can't edit the article would you like us to add that? Is that your text or a quote from a source? Who used the word 'terrified'? We may have to quote them my name. I wonder if there is another source about how many dark pick-ups went up for sale in a hurry?--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 22:29, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Switch of outline to timeline structure ==

At some point recently, the article has been re-organized and re-written in a "time-line format" ... this might make it easier to add days with a diary of what happened on each day, kind-of like a rap-sheet. But, IMHO, this is not the best way to present this article in an informative manner (this is an encyclopedia, not a police diary). A time-line graphic, (perhaps vertical diagram on the right side of the page) or a table of dates and events would suffice under a stand-alone time-line section; but I feel that it is best to revert the body to a "Shootings" "Manifesto" and "Police Shootings" (etc.) structure for the main narrative. Comments? 
[[User:Enquire|Enquire]] ([[User talk:Enquire|talk]]) 21:59, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:[[Sinking of the RMS Titanic|This timeline article]] uses a similar format. Would that work better? --[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 22:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:: The page had a section called "Timeline of shootings", but then people started adding events to that section that there not shootings, so I relabeled it "Timeline". That made it a bit better; but it wasn't the best fix. I agree the article would be improved by reorganizing it. Probably leaving the shootings in a section called "shootings", but pulling everything else out into other sections -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 06:55, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== Manifesto details ==

After an [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2013_Southern_California_shootings&diff=prev&oldid=537760139 edit] by MathematicianO there is too much detailed information about the manifesto in the lead. I am therefore reverting it. If these details are too be included it must be in the body of the article. The lead is curently more detailed about the manifesto than the body, which is not how articles shall be written. There also seems to be a slight tendency to argue the case for Dorner in the mentioned edit. With regards, [[User:Iselilja|Iselilja]] ([[User talk:Iselilja|talk]]) 22:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
:That may need consensus. Seems your edit was reverted. Should we discuss it in this section or start a new one?--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 22:21, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::We can discuss it here. I reverted it back again. What I think is pretty clear is that [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section|the lead]] shall never be more detailed and specific than the body of the article: "Apart from trivial basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." So, if people want to have more stuff from the manifesto in the article one should start with the body, and then a short summary can appear in the lead. With regards, [[User:Iselilja|Iselilja]] ([[User talk:Iselilja|talk]]) 22:31, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
: Dorner's expressed motive is extremely relevant and belongs in the lead. The current summary is overly vague, and actually is not neutral, and it was this I was trying to repair.
: I welcome your work in expanding the details in the body of the article.
: It discourages contributions if you remove a contributor's work in its entirety just because other parts of the article have not yet been properly developed. I believe such a reversion is entirely improper and should be rejected. Please undo your reversions of my contributions. [[User:Mathematician0|Mathematician0]] ([[User talk:Mathematician0|talk]]) 22:52, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::This may be an uphill battle unless the two articles are merged. The manifesto can be in the lead of Mr. Dormer's article because he is the subject there. This article is about the shootings, not Mr. Dormer.--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 12:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== Merge/redirect ==

I believe that [[WP:BLP1E]] in this case indicates that we should not have a separate article on Dorner, at least not at this point. --[[User:Joe Decker|j⚛e decker]][[User talk:Joe Decker|talk]] 16:12, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge/redirect''' - with no objection to the [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] article being spun back out as a separate article at some point in the future, should there be consensus to do that. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 16:14, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge/redirect''': Based on the guideline, I also support for now, with as '''GiantSnowman''' said, no objection whatsoever to the possibility of a separate article in the future. [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 17:09, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support Merge/Redirect''' - There is no need for a separate article at this time. All relevant information can be covered here. If the suspect becomes notable in his own right later on, we can easily make a split. In the meantime, it makes more sense to work on one unified article, and allow a separate bio article to grow as a section, if it does. [[User:Bigdan201|Bigdan201]] ([[User talk:Bigdan201|talk]]) 18:17, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes <-- He has a page what's the difference.--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 18:56, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strong support to keep separate''' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eagan_Holmes has a page so should he.--[[User:Ronjohn|Ron John]] ([[User talk:Ronjohn|talk]]) 18:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
:*[[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]]. [[User:GiantSnowman|Giant]][[User talk:GiantSnowman|Snowman]] 19:55, 8 February 2013 (UTC
::Or to put it another way-- if you believe that there is a comparison, then explain why the two cases are comparable, and your example applies here, and is a sufficient argument to support your point. [[User:ProfessorTofty|ProfessorTofty]] ([[User talk:ProfessorTofty|talk]]) 20:19, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strong support to merge under [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] article only''' - His name is more notable than his crimes. The guy's become an antihero, and this will only grow IMHO. He's not your common-or-garden ordinary criminal. He's intelligent, liberal,{{cn}} has sympathetic issues, writes well, and is well informed. He's also about to be killed on sight. American to the core. [[User:JohnClarknew|JohnClarknew]] ([[User talk:JohnClarknew|talk]]) 19:48, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
::See this: [[List of serial killers in the United States]]. Every one of them blue linkable. [[User:JohnClarknew|JohnClarknew]] ([[User talk:JohnClarknew|talk]]) 03:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge/redirect''' to [[2013 Southern California shootings]] per standard Wikipedia policy for such cases. [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)]] states '' "A person who is known only in connection with a criminal event or trial should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there is an existing article that could incorporate the available encyclopedic material relating to that person." '' There is such an article, and that is where information about this individual should go. He is not notable for anything else. --[[User:MelanieN|MelanieN]] ([[User talk:MelanieN|talk]]) 22:40, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge'''. I mistakenly originally nominated the article for AfD but withdrew my nomination. As of this time there is not enough coverage to warrant an independent article; see [[WP:BLP1E]]. In terms of case studies, there may be a time when he is [[WP:PERSISTENCE|mentioned enough to be significant]], but that will happen later, not now, and [[WP:CRYSTAL|it's not our place to judge if that will happen]]. '''[[User:Elektrik Shoos|elektrik]][[Special:Contributions/Elektrik Shoos|SHOOS]]''' ([[User talk:Elektrik Shoos|talk]]) 22:58, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
* '''Support merge''' back into this article. Wikipedia guidelines are clear on this. The perpetrator of a single crime (or crime spree) is not notable for a biography page except in the case when a single article becomes overly long. [[WP:PERP]] -- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 04:45, 10 February 2013 (UTC) 
*'''Support merger''' of [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] to [[2013 Southern California shootings]]. The subject of the biography article is only notable due to the shootings that have occurred (so far only) in Southern California, and events related to the subject. Therefore, the subject of the biography article falls under [[WP:BLP1E]]. I understand that there are concerns about the name of this article, and perhaps there should be a separate discussion about possible renaming, but that does not have to do directly with the merger proposal.--[[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]] ([[User talk:RightCowLeftCoast|talk]]) 19:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose Merge''' It seems to me that many here don't understand [[WP:BLP1E]]. The intention of BLP1E is to keep the plethora of minor figures within an event from being notable enough from having an article, but its intention never was to prevent major characters of the event from having an article. Clear misinterpretation of BLP1E by just about everyone claiming it here.--[[User:Jojhutton|JOJ]] [[User talk:Jojhutton|Hutton]] 20:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
::Please see [[WP:CRIMINAL]]: {{quote|A person who is known only in connection with a criminal event or trial should not normally be the subject of a separate Wikipedia article if there is an existing article that could incorporate the available encyclopedic material relating to that person.}}
::As such, since there is already this article, the biography article shouldn't exist unless the subject of the biography article becomes independently notable beyond the crimes he is ''alleged'' to have committed, or if this article becomes to large per [[WP:LIMIT]]. As a reservist, the subject is not independently notable per [[WP:SOLDIER]]. As a police officer, the subject is not notable, as his service in the Los Angeles Police Department is more of a background to the events that lead up to the alleged criminal acts.--[[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]] ([[User talk:RightCowLeftCoast|talk]]) 21:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' It's a good idea to merge, but the title [[2013 Southern California shootings]] assumes that this will be the only shooting spree in Southern California this year. Hopefully it will be, but the proposed title could be more specific. Perhaps the merge should be the other way, into [[Christopher Dorner]]? Or a third title? [[User:Paris1127|Paris1127]] ([[User talk:Paris1127|talk]]) 20:31, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - I have been supporting the merge, but recent developments, such as the substantial reward and label of domestic terrorist has tipped my viewpoint in favor of keeping this article in its own context. I see this individual as having a significant impact upon criminal and popular culture. Therefore, I am now opposed to this merge. [[User:DarthBotto|DarthBotto]] [[User talk:DarthBotto|talk]]•[[Special:Contributions/DarthBotto|cont]] 22:48, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strongly oppose merge''' Not only is Christopher Dorner a notable criminal suspect, but this is an ongoing situation. We have already beaten back the overzealous "AfD Cops" who wanted his article deleted on Notability grounds. Now they would have his story reduced to a paragraph or two in the main article related to his alleged crime spree. Maybe we don't need a [[James Eagan Holmes]] page. Maybe we should delete the page for [[Jared Lee Loughner]]. Or maybe what we really need is a 48 hour cooling off period before ANY AfD or merge gets proposed in the first place to stop the AfD storm troopers from acting with such haste. My next door neighbor is a capable single father and a very likeable guy who I call my friend. But he isn't notable enough to have a Wikipedia page. Christopher Dorner, on the other hand, is the subject of the largest manhunt in LA County history, a situation that is increasing in notability because of the LAPD's handling of the case and their shooting and otherwise attacking people who do not resemble Dorner in any way. [[User:Michaelh2001|AlaskaMike]] ([[User talk:Michaelh2001|talk]]) 23:07, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose Merge''' Dorner is becoming independently notable aside from the event itself. [[User:ScienceApe|ScienceApe]] ([[User talk:ScienceApe|talk]]) 23:16, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' When people recommend merging to this article [[2013 Southern California shootings]], the actual name of this article is irrelevant. They are really saying "merge to an article about the shooting incidents and manhunt, rather than the individual." It's quite possible that a better name for this article will emerge with time. But it should still be the main and only article, per [[WP:CRIMINAL]], unless and until the Dorner section of it becomes meaty enough to spin off. --[[User:MelanieN|MelanieN]] ([[User talk:MelanieN|talk]]) 23:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' [[WP:BLP1E]] is meant to be for one event, the plural of the name shootings and the info in the article shows that a series of shootings took place with widespread media coverage for each one. Thus this passes the criteria for a stand alone article ([[WP:GNG]]). - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 01:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
::The subject of this article, per the name, encompasses all the shootings, and the attempted boat hijacking in San Diego. Now unless, the hijacking (piracy?) is considered a separate event, the subject is primarily known for the series of events that have occurred in the past week which this article treats as one subject.--[[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]] ([[User talk:RightCowLeftCoast|talk]]) 04:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose Merge''' As per [[WP:BIO1E]] "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate". The highly significant event in this case being the unprecedented manhunt, and the equally unprecedented reward posted.-[[User:Kiwipat|Kiwipat]] ([[User talk:Kiwipat|talk]]) 08:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC). Further, in regards to [[WP:BLP1E]] this "should be applied only to biographies of ''low-profile individuals''". I think Dorner has moved beyond ''low-profile''–-[[User:Kiwipat|Kiwipat]] ([[User talk:Kiwipat|talk]]) 16:59, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strongly oppose merge''' It seems a no-brainer at this point, with no disrespect intended. [[User:Elizabeth Blandra|Elizabeth Blandra]] ([[User talk:Elizabeth Blandra|talk]]) 16:55, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose Merge''', however, I do support merging biographical detail from this this page into the [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] page. There is way too much biographical information on this page, which is probably why some feel that a merge is appropriate. There needs to be a clear delineation between the pages, which is not quite clear right now. This page should be limited to a (very) brief bio (with links to the other page), and focus on the events. [[User:Enquire|Enquire]] ([[User talk:Enquire|talk]]) 21:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merge/redirect''' to this article. As pointed out above, a spin out article on Dorner may be appropriate in future; however, he is so far only notable for this event (or collection of events if you wish). It is a current event and therefore highly significant at this time, but its historical significance remains to be seen. Many spree killers do not have their own article, although they were the subject of intense scrutiny and in the limelight at the time of their incident (ex: [[James Huberty]] redirects to San Ysidro McDonald's massacre, [[Jiverly Wong]] redirects to Binghamton shootings--note the blue links). Incidentally, BLP1E does not say it should only be applied to low-profile individuals; it says, it should be applied if the person is low-profile, which is quite different. [[WP:BIO1E]], [[WP:BLP1E]], [[WP:CRIMINAL]]--all apply at this time. [[User:Richigi|Richigi]] ([[User talk:Richigi|talk]]) 23:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support merger''' of [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] to [[2013 Southern California shootings]]. Per [[User:RightCowLeftCoast|RightCowLeftCoast]]. Seems like an obvious place to apply [[WP:BLP1E]]. [[User:NickCT|NickCT]] ([[User talk:NickCT|talk]]) 14:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strongly Oppose merger'''. His notability is now off the charts. To not have a biographical article on him would be as insane as he is. [[User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] ([[User talk:Rreagan007|talk]]) 20:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Let's take a deep breath''' - How about we all hold off for one week after resolution of this (e.g., capture, death, etc.) and resume the discussion then. [[User: Go Phightins!|'''Go''']] [[User talk:Go Phightins!|'''''Phightins''''']][[Special:Contributions/Go_Phightins!|'''!''']] 21:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strong support merge''' his only notability comes from the shooting incident. Both [[Treyvon Martin]] and [[George Zimmerman]] redirect to [[Shooting of Trayvon Martin]]. This seems to be the norm on WP, and this should be the same. --[[User:IP98|IP98]] ([[User talk:IP98|talk]]) 22:20, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I am seeing alot of [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]] here, "Look at article x", "Article y redirects to article c so this one should too" all of these are weak arguements for a merge. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 23:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
**'''Reply''' I believe the correct wikipedia policy to cite here would be [[WP:CONSISTENCY]]. --[[User:IP98|IP98]] ([[User talk:IP98|talk]]) 00:59, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
***You are overstepping the [[WP:CONSISTENCY]] policy, [[WP:CONSISTENCY]] is for english usage in articles and is part of [[WP:MOS]]. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 01:56, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support of Merger''' - As far as I have seen, Dorner is only notable because of the shootings. I believe a merger would be alright, followed by a possible spinoff article at a later date. --[[User:Super Goku V|Super Goku V]] ([[User talk:Super Goku V|talk]]) 23:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support redirect/merge''' per [[WP:BLP1E]] and [[WP:PERP]]. Dorner's only notability is in relation to the shootings. Any biographical notes on him are background to the shootings and belong here. I could see a biographical article being spun off in the future, though, depending on the outcome of the manhunt. [[User:Oren0|Oren0]] ([[User talk:Oren0|talk]]) 00:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose merge''' [[Wikipedia:BIO1E#People_notable_for_only_one_event|"If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate."]] Furthermore, Dorner's page is large and will only become larger. If the pages were merged, then the main article may no longer be comfortably readable. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 04:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== Proposed merger to [[Christopher Jordan Dorner]] ==

See [[Talk:Christopher Jordan Dorner#Proposed merger from 2013 Southern California shootings]] --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 23:26, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

== Cut down the "suspect" section? ==

It seems that the section on the "Suspect" is far, far too long as there exists a separate Christopher Dorner article. I think the section should a significantly reduced in size.

What do people think about replacing the entire "Naval Reservist" and "Career with LAPD sections" with 1-2 sentences each?

-- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== Dump the "Timeline"? ==

Here's what I'd propose in it's place:

* Package received by Anderson cooper
* Shootings attributed to suspect
* Reopening of investigation
* Reward
* Plus the existing Manhunt and Shootings of Civilians by Police sections.

-- [[User:Bob drobbs|Bob drobbs]] ([[User talk:Bob drobbs|talk]]) 20:02, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

==Endgame?==

*[http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/manhunt-christopher-dorner-big-bear.html Christopher Dorner in gun battle with authorities, source says] — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/219.88.195.150|219.88.195.150]] ([[User talk:219.88.195.150|talk]]) 21:26, 12 February 2013 (UTC) 
:We aren't in a hurry. I think we should be wary of 'source says' material being added. Newspapers can quote un-named sources, but I don't think we can.--[[User:Canoe1967|Canoe1967]] ([[User talk:Canoe1967|talk]]) 23:42, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

== edit request ==

I made this request already at [[Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard]]. Someone agreed with it, but no one made the change for me. I'm asking that the second paragraph be changed to read as below.

A [[manifesto]] posted <ref name = "myFOXla_2013-02-06"/><ref name = "ABC.au_2013-02-08"/><ref name = "LAist_2013-02-07"/> on Facebook,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=8988394|title=Christopher Dorner search: Criminal charges filed|author=John North, Rob McMillan, Robert Holguin, Leanne Suter, Q McCray, Amy Powell and Melissa MacBride|date=2013-02-11|accessdate=2013-02-11}}</ref> which police say was written by Dorner,<ref>{{cite web
|url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/08/dorner-manifesto_n_2644813.html
|title=Dorner Manifesto: Suspected Gunman Talks Politics, Pop Culture In His 'Last Resort'
|author=The Associated Press
|date=2013-02-08
|accessdate=2013-02-11}}</ref> declared "[[Unconventional warfare|unconventional]] and [[asymmetric warfare]]" upon the [[Los Angeles Police Department]], their families, and their associates, until the LAPD admitted publicly he was fired in retaliation for reporting [[excessive force]].

[[User:Rybec|Rybec]] ([[User talk:Rybec|talk]]) 23:21, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Camyoung54|Camyoung54]] [[User talk:Camyoung54|talk]] 01:14, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Another request, mention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_off in why ammo is exploding, there's some confusion among why shots are going off.
[[User:Dietcoketm|Dietcoketm]] ([[User talk:Dietcoketm|talk]]) 00:50, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:Camyoung54|Camyoung54]] [[User talk:Camyoung54|talk]] 01:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

{{edit protected|answered=yes}} Dorner's name is misspelled as Dormer under the Big Bear section. [[Special:Contributions/174.141.213.44|174.141.213.44]] ([[User talk:174.141.213.44|talk]]) 02:09, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
:{{already done}} [[User:Camyoung54|Camyoung54]] [[User talk:Camyoung54|talk]] 03:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

The unchecked news report of "ammo exploding" is probably based on a local reporter hearing sounds and making assumptions. It is more likely "aerosol cans exploding" in the heat. For accuracy, this should be phrased as "explosions were heard from within the fire, possibly aerosol cans [ or ammunition, if that sensational turn of phrase is required]. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.14.59.118|24.14.59.118]] ([[User talk:24.14.59.118|talk]]) 02:53, 13 February 2013 (UTC) 
:{{not done}} The ammo exploding is mentioned in the news reports cited. [[User:Camyoung54|Camyoung54]] [[User talk:Camyoung54|talk]] 03:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== 2 women held hostage? ==

Would they count as "injured"-which would leave the total to 9-considering Dorner tied them down before stealing their car? [[User:CloudKade11|CloudKade11]] ([[User talk:CloudKade11|talk]]) 02:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== Puzzling original research regarding said “cabin” ==
The building identified by media as the cabin occupied by a person matching Dorner’s description appears to actually be the office for http://7oaksmtncabins.com/ and not an actual rental unit.[http://i45.tinypic.com/20957ya.png][http://i46.tinypic.com/3590gmc.png]

Oh and supposedly they’re open year-round. ―[[special:contributions/cobaltcigs|cobaltcigs]] 02:47, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

== All in All ==

The coverage on the last day... we nailed it in an extremely timely manner. Kudos to all. [[User:Kennvido|Kennvido]] ([[User talk:Kennvido|talk]]) 03:56, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Osama (disambiguation)

2012-06-22T14:28:24Z

Parthian Scribe: Undid revision 422969170 by JohnCengiz77 (talk) He is the most famous ''person'' to the West called Osama, but Osama is better known as a name. Cyrus not redirect to Cyrus the Great

#REDIRECT [[Osama (disambiguation)]]

Talk:Dada

2012-06-17T15:53:11Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Vague Intro, hard to understand for beginners */ new section

{{talkheader}}
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1={{WikiProject Sociology|class=B|importance=Low| nested=yes}}
{{Visual arts|class=B| nested=yes}}
{{philosophy|importance=low|class=B|aesthetics=yes|nested=yes}}
{{WikiProject Theatre|class=B|importance=high|nested=yes}}
{{WikiProject Switzerland|class=B|importance=low}}
{{Wikiproject Germany|class=B|importance=Mid}}

{{WPLIT}}
}}
{{DelistedGA|2007-08-09}}
{{High traffic|date=August 20, 2007|site=The Onion|url=http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/hard_to_tell_if_wikipedia}}

==Poème Simultané==
I'd like to see something about this form of artistic presentation added to the "Poetry, music, and sound" section. If I'm not mistaken, the concept itself has Dada origins, and even if it was not an original idea at the time, it was still a main attraction at Dada events (according to Hans Richter). I'd add information myself, but I don't feel as if I know enough about the subject to do so. [[User:75.69.110.227|75.69.110.227]] 02:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

==Nihilism==
Can we please get a citation for:

"Therefore, it is a movement based in Nihilism, in the sense that it embraces a systematic devaluation of Transcendental values and a reconstruction based in the will to power as the fundamental essence of humanity."

That is a very powerful statement and I think it's wholy inapropriate to have it on the page without some sort of reference to it. The subject of Dada is a little more complex than simply nihilism, it could be argued that the europe they opposed was nihilistic rather than them. Because of the complexity of this I'm removing the quote for the time being. Assuming it to be original research. If someone can find a citation then it can be re-added.

==Wonder Showzen==

I deleted the Wonder Showzen link. I love that show, but including every bit of pop culture influenced by Dada would be an excercise in futility. And if you were to relate TV shows to Dada one of the prime examples would be the Monty Python's Flying Circus.

==Opening section==

This article has gigantic mistakes, and I'll try to fix some in the future. But, the most important one is the origin of the word Dada. I think it should mention Hans Arp ironic letter to Tristan Tzara, claiming to admit Tzara had invented it as well as the much more credible reference written by Huelsenbeck, explaining how he and Hugo Ball found the word in a german-french dictionary, meaning "hobby-horse" in French. If there are no comments. I'll fix it myself.

Dada was not nihilistic or cynical or random - it was a concerted, political, anti-war movement. I have changed the intro as such - sources and verification are evident throughout the article. Please comment here before reverting. [[User:62.25.106.209|62.25.106.209]] 12:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

I really feel that's not correct. Cynical and nihlistic are subjective, but large parts of dada were random by design. Even the very name dada was random, derived from a randomly choosen dictionary entry. Dada was anti-war, but to describe it primarily as an anti-war movement is misleading and unhelpful. Please be specific in your evidence that dada was a concerted anti-war movement.
[[User:Detruncate|Detruncate]] 22:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

1. The origin of the word Dada are not confirmed. You will find many contradictory sources.

2. randomness, nihilism and cynicism were all employed as artistic devices in production of anti-war propoganda.

3. Dada began in the anti-war movement and developed past the end of WW1 - so it outlasted its purpose - but every single Dada artist and manifesto continued that anti-war line into a critique on "European civilisation" more generally. It is the describing of Dada as primarily artistic that is misleading and unhelpful. Maybe we should synthesise a new begining?

[[User:195.92.40.49|195.92.40.49]] 09:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think dada should be described as primarily artistic, but primarily cultural on the whole. Dada began in the anti-war movement, but it was not, in it's formation, exclusively anti-war. To the Dadaists, the first world war was the best example of "what was wrong", but the war itself was not the only target. It was anti-war in that it critiqued the entire culture and social organization that could allow something like the first world war to happen. It was anti-war, anti-art, anti-tradition, anti-prentension and so on, a critique of all the toxic cultural and organizational trends. The reason I don't want it to say anti-war at the top of the article is I feel it too narrowly defines the dadaist movement. It might be useful to have a more in-depth sentence on the orgins of the movement in the first paragraph of the article to more fully explain the relationship of dada and the first world war.
--[[User:Detruncate|Detruncate]] 18:09, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that 'cultural' would be a more accurate term than 'artistic', but DADA was most certainly a focussed anti-war and pro-life movement - every single manifesto and artist was united by that position and that - anti-war politics is integral to the anti-art praxis. [[User:195.92.40.49|195.92.40.49]] 09:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Detruncate - I think you are partially correct. The initial Swiss and subsequent French instantiations of dada were primarily artistic (like user 195.92.40.49, I think cultural is a better term here), though a) it is difficult for any art to be apolitical, b) the reason they were thrown together at all was due to the war and c) the war provided a huge impetus to their activities in terms of being something hugely obvious to be angry about and protest against. However the later offshoot of dada in Germany _was_ explicitly and self-consciously political in a way the earlier 'dadas' were not. Your suggestion of a more in-depth explanation of the origins of the movement re WWI is a good one - I think that would be valuable. --[[User:escha|escha]] 22:05, 4 February 2007 (GMT)

Gender: Male
Origin: Greek
Meaning: The Greek name Dadio means - a form of Dada which means torch

The following was found while researching the etymology of DADA (delta, alpha, delta, alpha) and thought it pertinent to the discussion:

Dadas / Δάδας & Dada / Δάδα The Prodromos Hellenikes Bibliothekes / Πρόδρομος Ελληνικής Βιβλιοθήκης, "A Forerunner to a Greek Library", published in Paris in 1805, was a literary collection of works by three ancient writers whom the editor considered as introductory to the corpus of the ancient classics. The editor and publisher was Adamantios Koraes, (Αδαμάντιος Κοραής, 1748–1833) a Greek humanist scholar and medical doctor and an active supporter of the French revolution
As a man of the Age of Enlightenment, who was in constant correspondence with the greatest liberal minds of his era He was in constant correspondence with Thomas Jefferson, for example), Koraes tirelessly worked for the liberation of Greece from the yoke of Ottoman slavery and for the education of young Greeks everywhere. His influence in the formation of the literrary modern Greek language has been compared to that of Dante for Italian or Martin Luther for the German language. Koraes believed in the power of education in liberating the minds of individual people and collectively their nations and convinced many wealthy expatriate Greeks to finance the publishing of books in the Greek language to be used in Greek schools in occupied Greece and abroad. The Prodromos Hellenikes Bibliothekes was one such case. In Koraes' Prodromos we find the short story of a Cretan woman named Dada, as relayed by Nikolaos Damaskenos / Νικόλαος Δαμασκηνός in his Ιστορίαι/Stories:
Ὀτι Σκάμανδρος ό βασιλεύσας πρώτος των Τρώων, Σάμωνι χρησάμενος συνεργώ, τους εν τή Τρωάδι ἐνίκησεν. ἀποθανόντος δε Σάμωνος κατά την μάχην, την γυναίκα αυτού Δάδαν [Dadan] μητέρα των νεανίσκων, εἰς το Πόλιον εξέπεμψε διά κήρυκος, ὠς ἀν έκεί συνοικήσειεν ότω βούληται. Ὀ δε κήρυξ κατά την όδόν βιασάμινος αὐτήν ήσχυνεν. Ἠ δε, το ξίφος έχουσα το του ἀνδρός, αὐτήν διεχρήσατο. Αίσθόμενοι δε οί Κρήτες τον κήρυκα κατέλευσαν, ένθα ό χώρος Ἀναίδειας ὠνομάσθη.
Dada's story was retold (using almost to the word Damaskenos' narrative) in French and then translated into English in the "Dictionary of Classical Mythology", by Pierre Grimal (Willey-Blackwell Publishing, 1990):
Dada/Δάδα
"The wife of the Cretan hero Samon, who helped Scamander take possession of the Troad. After Samon's death in battle Dada entrusted herself to a herald, asking him to accompany her to a nearby city, where she intended to remarry. On the way the herald violated her and, overcome with shame, Dada ran herself through with her dead husband's sword. When the Cretans became learnt of this tragic event they stoned the herald to death at the very place where he had carried out his rape; the place became known thereafter as the Field of Shamelessness."
This is an ancient Greek myth connecting a Greek woman from Crete named Dada and events on the island of Crete with Skamandros, the mythical king of the city of Troy, on the Asiatic shore of the Aegean Sea, by the Hellespont. The name Dada/Δάδα and her male equivalent Dadas/Δάδας are names that are found throughout the Greek speaking word, and not only in Macedonia, as professor Aleksandar Donsky implies. They happen to be far more widespread and popular in Ionia, and the rest of Hellenic Asia Minor, in what is now Turkey. Searching through the epigraphic record, we looked for the name Dadas and Dada, and their derivatives and other names derived from the same toot, and what we found is a rather disproportionate distribution:
We begin with Asia Minor: 45 mentions of Dadas or Dada 8 mentions of Dadouchos/Δαδούχος2 mentions of Adados/Ἀδαδος1 mention of Theudados/Θευδᾶδος (Θευδᾶδος is Ionian and Dorian for:Theodados/Θεο-δᾶδος. Θευ-= Θεο-=Theo-).1 mention of Νεικάδαδος/Neikadados.Below is an example on an inscription from Galatia, close to the modern Turkish capital Ankara:Regions : Asia Minor : GalatiaStrubbe, Cat. Pessinus 45 Gal., N. — Pessinous: Sivrihisar — AEMÖ 7.1883.182,56Δαδα Ἀλεξάνδρῳ ἀνδ-ρὶ κὲ Δίῳ υἱῷ μνήμης χάριν.Dada to Alexandros her husband and to Dion her son, in memory's favor.Another example from Phrygia, found not far from the first one:Regions : Asia Minor : PhrygiaMAMA 5 Lists Note:188,1[2/5] Phryg. — Dorylaion (Eskişehir), W. of: Inönü — MDAI(A) 25.1900.417,28 w/470ἀγαθῇ τύχῃ.Διὶ Βροντῶντι ἐπη-κόῳ θεῷ Δαδᾶς/Dadas Δαμᾶσὺν τοῖς τέκνοις Ὀ-νησίμῳ καὶ Διομᾶκαὶ Χρυσίῳ ὑπὲρ τῶνἰ]δίων εὐχὴν ἀνέστησανIn benevolent FortuneTo Zeus the Thundering onethe god who listens (epecoos), Dadas son of Damasalong with his children O-nesimos and Diomasand Chrysios, praying on their own behalf they raised this Next we look at inscriptions at the North Shore of the Black Sea: We find38 mentions of Dadas/Δάδας or Dada/Δάδα2 mentions of Dadaios/Δαδαίος4 mentions of Dadagos /Δάδαγος4 mentions of Dadakos /Δάδακος
Example of a Greek inscription from the Greek city of Ερμόνασσα/Ηερμονασσα, modern Tmutarakan (Тмутаракань) by the Cimmerian Bosporus,in Russia, a city strategically located by the entry from the Euxine Pontus into the Sea of Azov.
Regions : North Shore of the Black Sea
CIRB 1054
N. Black Sea — Hermonassa (Taman ) — 123-133 AD — IosPE IV 421
βασιλεύοντος βασι]-λέως [Τιβερίου Ἰουλίου]Κότυος υἱ[οῦ βασιλέως]Σαυρομάτου, [φιλοκαίσα]-ρος καὶ φιλορωμαίου,εὐσεβοῦς, ἡ σύνο-δος ἡ περὶ νακόρονΒάγην Σωσιπάτρου,καὶ ἱρ̣έα ΣτράτωναὈν̣[ησιδ?]ώ̣ρου καὶ ἱερομά-στορα Ἀπολλώνιον Χρυ-σαλίσκου καὶ γραμμα-τέα Ἀγαθοῦν Πολεμοκρά-του καὶ φιλάγαθον Μυρεῖ-νον β καὶ οἱ λοιποὶ θιασεῖτ[αι]·Καλοῦς ΜυρείνουΜέγης ΜηνᾶΔημοκράτης Δάδα/DadaἈρισταγόρας ἈγαθοῦΔάδας [Dadas] Ἀπολλωνί[ου]etcDuring the royal rule of king Tiberios Ioulios Kotys son of king Sautomates, who is philocaesar, philoroman, andpious, the council surroundingthe president of the temple:Bages son of Sosistratosand priest Straton son of Onesidoros and holy official Apollonios son ofChrysaliskos and secre-tary Agathon son of Polemo-krates and the well meaning Myrei-nos and the rest of the (Bacchic) thiasos members:Kalous son of MyreinosMeges son of MenasDemocrates son of DadasAristagoras son of AgathosDadas son of Apolloniosetc
Next we look at occurrences of these names in Thrace and Lower Danube:
19 mentions of Dadas/Δάδας or Dada /Δάδα.1 mention of Dadoparenos/Δαδοπαρηνός.1 mention of Dados/Δαδος.
The first examples is from ancient Οδησσός/Odessus, by modern Varna (not to be confused with Odessa of Ukraine, further north):IGBulg 286
Thrace and Moesia Inferior Odessus (Varna) — Galataabove relief.1 Ἥρωι Καραβασ]μῳbelow relief.2 Ἀγαθήνωρ Πόσσειος ὁκαὶ Δαδας/Dadas εὐχαριστήριονκατ´ εὐχὴν τοῦ πατρός.Agathenor Poseios alsoknown as Dadas, thanks offeringaccording to the wish of his fatherThe second example is from Byzantium/Βυζάντιον/Constantinople, modern Istanbul:IK Byzantion 234Thrace and Moesia Inferior Thrace — Byzantion (Istanbul) — 2nd c. BC (Fir.) Firatli-Robert (Annexe) 230 — SEG 24.721Χρηστὴ Δ̣α̣δα/Dada, Δα̣[δας]/DadasἈπολλωνίου.Chreste daughter of Dadas, Dadasson of ApolloniosWe now move to the Aegean Islands: Here we have5 mentions of Dadas/Δάδας3 mentions of Dadamas/ΔαδἀμαςBelow is a well published example from the island of Lesbos:Regions : Aegean Islands, incl. Crete (IG XI-[XIII]) : Lesbos, Nesos, and Tenedos (IG XII,2) IG XII,2 222 Lesbos — Mytilenefrom the base of a statue:ὀ δᾶμοςΔάδαν/Dadan Δίη, γύναικα δὲ Λεσβώνακτοςτῶ Ποτάμωνος, ἰρεύσαισαν Ἐτηφίλακάλως καὶ εὐσεβέως καὶ ἀποκατάσται-σαν τὰ ἶρα, ἀρέτας ἔννεκα καὶ εὐ-νοίας τᾶς εἰς αὖτον.
the peopleTo Dada daughter of Dies, and also wife of Lesbonaxson of Potamon, who has been priestess of Etephilain a good and pious way and was instrumental in reconstituting the Ira, due to her virtue and hergood will towards them, the people.
Incidentally, this same Dada, whose Roman citizen's name was Claudia, was later honored by the Mytilinean demos with a second statue. She was the daughter of Dies/Δίης, sister of Philon and wife of Lesboanax/Λεσβώναξ (yes, indeed, his name means "king of the Lesbians", and no, we should not get over-excited: it merely refers to the inhabitants of the Greek island of Lesbos).
The base of the second statue preserves the following commendation:
Κλαυδίαν Δα[δα?]/Dadaἠροίναν Γαίω[---]τὠ εὐεργέτα πα[ίδα].
To Klaudia Da[da?]a heroine to Gaio[---]to the benefactor child.Now we search for the same names in northern Greece, in Macedonia: We locate2 mentions of the name Dadas/Δάδας1 mention of the name Dadouchos/Δαδοῦχος. 1 mention of Dados/ΔάδοςExamples:EKM 1. Beroia 181
Macedonia : Bottiaia: Beroia
Διογένης Βαρναίου ἥρωςΔάδα/Dada ἡ[ρ]ώ̣ισσα.Diogenes son of Barnaios, a heroDada, a heroine
Another example comes in the form of a small inscription stamped on a clay vessel, an amphora, originating in the SE Aegean island of Cos:SEG 48:832,3Macedonia : Bottiaia: Pella, Unpublished Coan amphora stamp naming eponym Δάδας : DadasA third inscription from Macedonia, concerning the sale of a house: Regions : Northern Greece (IG X) : Macedonia Meletemata 22, Epig. App. 91 Meletemata 22, Epig. App. 90 Meletemata 22, Epig. App. 92 Makedonia (Edonis) — Amphipolis — 3rd c. BC — SEG 24.584
ἀγαθῆι τύ[χηι]. ἐφ´ ἱερέως Αἰσχύλου, ἐπισ̣-τάτου δὲ Κλεάνδρου, μηνὸς Δίου. Κίσσο-ς Ἑκαταίου ἐπρίατο παρὰ Σωσικράτους τοῦ Ἀ-νδρονίκου τὴν οἰκίαν καὶ τὸ οἰκόπεδον τὸπροσόν, ἧι γείτονες Ἀντίγονος Μαχάτα,Νίκανδρος Λεωνίδου, χρυσῶν ἑδομήκ̣-οντα τριῶν. βεβαιωταὶ Μαχάτας Ἀνδρονί-κ]ου, Καλλίστρατος Δάδου, Νύμφων Ξεν-οφῶντος καὶ αὐτὸς Σωσικράτης. μάρτυρ-ε]ς Νέων Ἰχναίου, Ἀ̣σ̣τιδ̣ί̣ης Ἀντιδότου.
In Good fortune. During the time of priest Aeschylos whenpresident was Cleandros, in the month of Dios, Kissosson of Hekataios took possession from Sosikrates son of An-dronikos of the house and the land plot adjacent to the properties of the neighbors Antigonos son of Machatas,and Nikandros son of Leonides, for seventy three gold (coins). Verifyiers: Machatas son of Andro-nikos, Kallistratos son of Dados/Δάδος, Nymphon son of Xeno-phon and Sosikrates himself. Witnes-ses Neon son of Ichnaios and Astides son of Antidotos. In Egypt of the Ptolemies we find: 2 mentions of the name Dadas/Δάδας1 mention of the name Dadouchos/Δαδοῦχος.1 mention of the name Dadouchios/Δαδοῦχιος.
Example of an inscription:Regions : Egypt, Nubia and Cyrenaïca : Egypt and NubiaSyringes 693
Eg. — Thebes [W.]: Syringes
Δαδᾶς/Dadas Ζ̣ιπύρουΘρᾶϊξ,Νίκανδρος Ζ̣ένωνοςΣελγεὺς ἥκω,ἐπ´ ἀγα-θῷ,εὐτυχῖτε {εὐτυχεῖτε}.Dadas son of Zipyros a ThracianNikandros son of Zenonwho came from Selgiafor goodness, well being.Joy to you!
In Central Greece: 2 mentions of the name Dada/ΔάδαExample from Thessaly, from a marble-inscribed declaration of freeing of slaves, mentioning a freed woman named Dada:IG IX,2 324
Thessaly (IG IX,2): Hestiaiotis: Aiginion (Kalambaka)στρατηγοῦντος Ἀσκλάπωνος μηνὸ[ς]Ἑ]ρμαίου τρίτῃ· αἱ ἀπελευθερωθῖσαι ἀ-π̣ὸ Ἀντικράτους τοῦ Νικάνορος καὶ Ἀ-φθ]οννῶς τῆς Λαχάρου Δ[ά]δα / Dada [κα]ὶ Κ[—]- Ι̣ραὶς ἡ θυ[γάτ]ηρ άδας/ D— — — — — — οἱ ἀπελ]ευθερωθέντες
While Strategos was Asclapon on the monthHermaios, the third day; the freed byAntikrates the son of Nikanoc and aph-thono daughter of Lacharos, Dada and K[—]-Irais the daughter of Dada.— — — — — — the freed slaves...
In Syria, Arabia and Masopotamia we had to be especially carefull in selecting names, since Babylonian, Persian and numerous other non-Greek names appear which sound similar to but are not related to the Greek Dadas. We only chose the ones which are indisputably Greek:
1 mention of Dadados/Δάδαδος1 mention of the name Das/Δας (genitive: Dados/Δαδός)1 mention of the name Dadaia/ΔαδαίαExample from Arabia: Regions : Greater Syria and the East : ArabiaPPUAES IIIA 5,651^1 Syria, S./Arabia-Hauran—Inkhilσῆ[μα] τόδεγαμετῇ τεκτή-ν]ατο Δαδος / Dadosἥτις ἄγαν πι-ν]υτὴ δο[ύλη]πο[λ]υήρατο-ς ο̣ὖσ ̣, ἵλα̣-ος(?)
here is the tomb built for the married womannamed Daswho was always wise, a much de-sired slaveand a joyous one
In Attica/Athens there are countless mentions of the word/atribute dadouchos, due to the Eleusinian and Panathenian festivals and their torch relays, but we only chose this word (Dadouchos/Δαδούχος) only when used as a person's name. Therefore, in Athens we have:1 mention of the name Dadates/Δαδάτης1 mention of the name Dada/Δάδα.30 mentions of the name Dadouchos/Δαδοῦχος.2 mentions of the name Dados/Δάδος
Example:Regions : Attica (IG I-III) : AtticaIG II² 11032 Att. — Athens: Akr. — s I p
ΚορνηλίαΔάδα / Dada
Cornelia daughter of Dadas.And also:Regions : Attica (IG I-III) : AtticaIG II² 8944 Att. — Athens: Akr.
ΕὐρυδίκηΔάδου / DadouἸχναία.
Euridicedaughter of Dadosfrom Ichna
Italy: 1 mention of the name Dadouchis/ΔαδουχίςThe inscription contains a very long list of Greek names (about five hundred), from a religious document from a temple in the city of Rome.IGUR I 160
Italy, incl. Magna GraeciaItalia — Roma: Torre Nova, area of — ca. mid. 2nd c. AD — cf. IGUR IV, p. 148, 160
οἱ ὑπογεγραμμένοι Μακ]ρεῖνος ἥρωςΚεθ]ηγίλλα δᾳδοῦχος/dadouchos (a torchbearer, as a function not as a name)ἱερεῖςΓ]α̣λλικανόςΓ̣αλλικανόςΜακρεῖνοςὌρφιτοςΓλύκεροςΠτέρωνΚαικιλίαΔύναμιςΦιλήτηἘπίκτητοςΔαδουχίς/DadouchisΡοῦφαΜουσικήΦοῖβοςthe undersignedMak]reinos heroKeth]egilla a torch bearer (δᾳδοῦχος/dadouchos)
the priestsGallikanosGallikanosMakreinosOrphitosGlykerosPteronKaikiliaDynamisPhiliteEpictetosDadouchisRoufaMousikePhoebos
Now that we have seen the name Dada and Dadas as well as many of similar names in related form, all derived from the same root, let us look at their meaning.
Let us start with Hesychios, the 5th century AD lexicographer, who saved for us thousands of unusual Greek words and words in various Greek dialects:
δᾷδα· λαμπάδα Dada: a torch δᾷδας· λαμπηδόνας Dadas: torches (plural)δᾷδες· λαμπάδες Dades: torches (plural)δᾳδουχεῖ· λάμπει, φέγγει. φωτίζει. [φαίνει] verb: Dadouchei: it shines, lights upδᾳδουχίας· λαμπαδηφορίας λυχναψίας. φωτισμοῦ Dadouchias: about torch bearingδᾳδοῦχος· λυχνάπτης. [λαμπαδηφόρος] Dadouchos: torch bearerδᾳδουχοῦνται· φαίνονται verb Dadouchountai: they are being lit, seenδᾳδουχῶν· διαλάμπων. n φωτίζων Dadouchon: sparkling shiny, well litδαΐδες· λαμπάδες. g λύχνοι Daides: torches, lights (plural)δαΐδων· λαμπάδων (Σ 492) Daidon: of torches δᾳδῶχορ· λυχνία Dadochor: a night lightδαίς· πεύκη, λαμπάς Dais: pine, torchδαίων· καίων S Daion: the burning oneδαίω· καίω ἐξάπτω vgAS verb Daio: to burn, to torch.
In the monumental work of the German Linguist Julius Pokorny's Indogermanisches Etymologisches Woerterbuch, which was published in 1959, we find the root / lemma:
" dāu-, dǝu-, dū̆- which means : "to burn". "
Pokorny connected this to:"Old Indian dunṓti `burns (trans), afflicts', dūná- `burnt, afflicted', Pass. dūyatē `burns' (intr.), kaus. dāvayati `burns' (trans), dāvá-ḥ (with ablaut change davāḫḥ) `blaze', etc...as in δεδαυμένος[dedaumenos]". He continues further down:
"gr. Δαίω [daio] (*δᾰF-ι̯ω) `set on fire, inflame', Perf. δέδηε [dedëe]`be in flames, be on fire' (: Old Indian dudāva), participle δεδαυμένος [dedaumenos] (δαῦσαι[dausai] ἐκκαῦσαι Hes., ἐκδαβῇ[ekdave] ἐκκαυθῇ Λάκωνες Hes.), δάος n., δαΐς[dais], -ίδος f. `torch' (to ᾳ: von att. δᾱͅς[das], δᾱͅδός[dados] s. Schwyzer Gr. Gr. I 266), δᾱνός [dais] `easily ignitable = to dry' (*δαεινός from *δαFεσ-νός), δᾱλός `burning piece of wood' (*δαFελός = lakon. Δαβελός)[davelos];" and also:
"air. dōīm `singe, burn' (about air. dōīm `get, exert' see under deu̯(ǝ)-), Verbalnom. dōud = Old Indian davathu-ḥ `blaze, fire'; atūd `kindle, inflame' from *ad-douth, cymr. cynneu `kindle, inflame'".
In the much more recent work "The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo European world, by J.P.Mallory and D.Q. Adams (Oxford University Press, 2006), a more updated lema is shown in *dehau, meaning "kindle, burn". On page 123 we read:"Getting a fire started may have been indicated by *dehau- "kindle, burn" with cognates in Celtic (e.g. OIr daud "burning"), Grk dai'o "kindle, burn", Skt Duno'ti "kindles, burns", and Tocharian (e.g. TochA twas- "kindle, ignite, light").
We look up some Sanskrit words in a Sanskrit-English dictionary freely available on the internet, and some words come up which are phonetically similar to the Greek dada and also etymologically related to it:"DAH, I. P. (E. also A.) DAHA, burn, consume with fire ; cauterize ; destroy ; torment, agitate ; pj.be burned; be destroyed; be consumed with inward fire ; be tortured : pp. DAFFDHA, i/, v. ; cs. DAHAYA, cause to be burned; burn (tr.); DO.DIDHAKEHA, be about to burn or destroy ; intv. DANDAHITL, dan- dagdhi, DANDANYATE, burn or destroy completely ; "
And also:"DAVA, m. (forest) conflagration; m. n. forest : -DAHANA, m. forest fire ; -Agni, m. fire of a burning forest; Tanala, iii. id.""A Sanskrit-English dictionary", by Arthur Anthony MacdonellDava is a word that in Sanskrit is related to both wood and fire, but particularly in a forest fire. The meaning of the Greek word for dada is similarly related to a piece of wood on fire. The word Dava-Agni-Davagni which indicates the fire of a burning forest could be of particular interest to us, since it has two familiar cognates: one in Greek (Sanskrit Dava – Greek Dada) and one for Latin (Sanskrit Agni - Latin Ignis [the Greek word agne/αγνή is also a cognate, although not an obvious one: agne=pure, purified – through fire). The English word "to ignite" is a cognate of the Sanskrit "agni", and the same word exists in Slavic too. The name Ignatius is derived from Ignis, for fire in Latin, and is therefore related to Agni; we will see it again, later on, so let us remember it, but it is interesting to see its Saskrit cognate here couple with Dada's Sanskrit cognate to form the Sanskrit forest-fight: "Davagni".As it becomes very apparent by now that the Greek word dais/δαίς-dados/δαδός and the names Dada/Δάδα Dadas/Δάδας and their derivatives all relate to the act of "starting a fire", "setting wood ablaze", "igniting", and of course "torches" and "torch bearing".
They are all derived from the verb daio/δαίω (in original form *δαF-ίω), which means "to light up", "to kindle", "to set on fire", "to burn,". Passive form: Dedaumai/δέδαυμαι, I am being lit up, torched. Δαίς/dais, is also found as δάς/das, in genitive form δαδός/dados, which translates as "the torch". In ancient Greek we also have the words δαδούχος / dadouxos for "the one holding a torch", as in the torch bearers at the festival of Eleusinian Demetra, in Athens, and δαδοφόρος / dadophoros which also means "the torch bearer". The two associates of the Persian Mithra, the prophet of Zaroaster, whose cult spread throughout the Roman empire and competed with Christianity for dominance in Europe in the beginning of the first millennium, always followed Mithra each holding a torch in their hand, and they were called Dadophoroi/Δαδοφόροι. The verb describing their action (bearing a torch) is δαδοφορέω/dadophoreo : to bear a torche, as in festivals (Liddel & Scott, Greek-English Lexicon, page 365, 1951 reprint). Dadaphorios/Δαδαφόριος was also the name of the fifth month in the calendar of Delphi (roughly equivalent to today's January, the Macedonian Peritios/Περίτιος and the Athenian Gamelion/Γαμηλιών). Dadophorios took its name from of the annual torch-light festival Dadaphoria/Δαδαφόρια that was held on this month in Delphi. Δαδουχεω/dadouheo is a verb meaning "to be a torch", being a torch bearer. The image of the two Dadophoroi/torch bearers passing a dais/dados, a torch to one another, shown at the beginning of this article, is from an ancient Greek amphora. It is showing the passing of the torch in such an athletic contest help during a religious festival, a Dadophoreia, a torch relay.
In modern Greek, δάδα/dada still means the torch. A quick "image" search in the internet (using a "copy and paste" for those who cannot spell it in Greek) of the word δάδα will bring up countless images of torches; especially the Olympic torches of the torch relay around the world (from the site of ancient Olympia, in the Peloponnese, to the Olympic city of that year). Dada/δάδα is what the statue of Liberty in New York harbor is holding on her right hand (also called a pyrsos/πυρσός, from Pyr/πύρ for fire). Dadi/δαδι in modern Greek is the resin wood chip used to ignite a fireplace fire.
Professor Aleksandar Donski/Александар Донски, of Skopje, FYROM, in his futile attempt to establish a non-existing connection between the ancient Greek names Dada/Δάδα - Dadas/Δάδας to words in the jugo-Slavic language spoken in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, proclaims that "The noun "dada" in the present day Macedonian [sic] language means "older sister"". He obviously forgot to inform us as to how Δάδας/Dadas is related to his own "Дада"". And what about Dados, Dadouchos, Dadates, etc...how are these men related to the Slavomakedonian "older sister-Dada/Дада"? Consistency, it seems, is not a pre-qualification criterion for the good nationalistic propagandist.
Having by now been informed of the meaning of Dada in the "present day" language of the modern inhabitants of FYROM (ancient Paeonia and Dardania-not Macedonia), it is time to recall what Dada means in the "present day" languages of most other European nations: DADA: an anti-war, anti-establishment radical art movement of the WWI years (started in Zürich in 1916), which reverberates on and off till now (the Punk subculture owed much to Dada). Unfortunately, the European Dada, despite its obvious phonetic similarities, happens to have about as much connection to the ancient Greek Dada/Δάδα and Dadas/Δάδας as the pseudo-makedonka "older sister"-"Dada/Дада".
In conclusion, Dada/Δάδα and Dadas/Δάδας and other similarly derived names of the same linguistic root, have been attested in Greek Mythology and Greek History. The Hellenic epigraphjic record containes numerous inscriptions with these names, as clearly demonstrated above. Equally important is the fact that Dadas, Dada and related names were popular throughout the Greek-speaking word, and certainly not only in Macedonia. While there are only four mentions of the name Dada (and similar, related names) in Macedonia, there are about twenty one mentions of these same names in Thrace (in modern Bulgaria, Turkey and Greece), over fifty-five mentions of these same and related names in Asia Minor (now Turkey) and forty eight in the (predominantly Ionian) Greek colonies of the Euxinus Pontus (the Black Sea), Greek cities in what is now Romania, Moldova, Ukraine and Russia. There were, as we showed above, ancient Greek inscriptions with the names Dada/Δάδα, Dadas/Δάδας, Dados/Δάδος etc found in other places in Greece, from Thessaly and Athens to Crete, Delos and Lesbos, but also in places as diverse and distant from each other as modern Syria, Mesopotamia-Iraq and Saudi Arabia, but also in Egypt and in Italy-Rome.
The common thread uniting these names is their "burning", "fire-igniting" and "torch"-related etymology:
Dadas/Δάδας, Dados/Δάδος, Dadaios/Δαδαίος, Dada/Δάδα: if they were Romans, instead of Greeks, with etymologically similar Latin names, they would have been named Inflammatus, Candelabrarius, Candela, or Ignatius: they too are "burning", "inflaming", "fire-igniting" and "torch" related names, like Dada/Δάδα and Dadas/Δάδας.

Miltiades Elia Bolaris —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/115.131.20.78|115.131.20.78]] ([[User talk:115.131.20.78|talk]]) 07:14, 11 April 2010 (UTC) 

==Miscellaneous==
Why does the bibliography only include two sources? I do not think Huelsenbeck's account should be the only account directly from a "dadaist"; what about Hans Richter's book Dada Art & Anti Art? I have this book and would be quite willing to submit my changes/additions to the Overview section of this page for consideration. ---- DYLAN GRAYSON DYLAN GRAYJSON FDJAKLSCEHBQWUO DYLAN GRAYSON WITHINWITHOUT@GMAIL.COM

I don't think that the "Dada Manifesto 2001" should be included in the text. It is obscure and insignificant. It only gets two results on google, both from the actual manifesto website. I've moved it to talk:
:[[Dale J. Sprague]] wrote the '''Dada Manifesto 2001''', endorsed by 10 people (as of [[2003]]), at [http://www.nwlink.com/~phoenix/dada-manifesto-2001.htm Phoenix Web Site].
--[[User:Snoyes|snoyes]] 16:39, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

:No problem with that. Actually the reason I included it was 1) to show that Dadaism is still alive among some people and 2) the main reason, to have something to fill the "Modern Developments" section, since I think in order to have a section it is a good idea to write at least two paragraphs. :) if u have something to add under the Modern Developments section, feel free to do so. [[User:Optim|Optim]] 17:43, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

sethmahoney, re:"Comments belong in the talk page"-- I thought this was a collaborative encyclopedia where people could contribute their knowledge. I was contributing knowledge. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to say that adherents of dada were trying to achieve a personal understanding of the true nature of the world around them?

:This is a collaborative encyclopedia, and we welcome your contributions. However, since it is an encyclopedia, there are style guidelines. See [[Wikipedia: Manual of style]] if you have questions. If the comment I left when I reverted your edit offended you, try to understand - Wikipedia gets lots of vandalism, and sometimes it can be difficult to tell who is trying to do what.
:As far as your question goes, I'm with you. Its a bit ridiculous to say that the adherents of dada (insofar as the word ''adherents'' applies to the people who produced dada art) were uniformly trying to do anything, much less trying to achieve a personal understanding of the true nature of the world around them. -[[User:Sethmahoney|Seth Mahoney]] 02:14, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

::OK--I wasn't offended per se. I was just trying to imagine what a dada version of the wikipedia definition of dadaism might actually be. Probably, it would have involved deleting the whole thing.

:::Heh, or maybe a blank page, or the word "dada" in big, bold letters, or some common household item made malicious looking, or a big web of string and glass? -[[User:Sethmahoney|Seth Mahoney]] 02:00, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

C'mon now. SURELY you can come up with a better example of modern Dada influence than Wonder Showzen!
--[[User:128.205.124.89|128.205.124.89]] 02:38, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
:::Would anyone consider using the "da da da" song from 1982 as a modern example of dadaism? The title is not the only hint, the structure and words of the song and especially the video seem to me to be dadaism at least as I understand it. Please check the video here: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=344705699499781309 Maybe watching this can illutrate for some people what dadaism is! Sorry, I do not know how to identify myself here.[[User:24.69.35.203|24.69.35.203]] 07:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

==Move?==

Seldom, in 35 years of reading about Dada, have I seen it called "Dadaism", and to me it feels awkward to write "Dadaism". Most often it's called "Dada". A check of "What links here" shows more links (about 150) to "Dada" than "Dadaism" (under 100).

How's about we move "Dadaism" to "Dada" and make "Dadaism" the redirect page? --[[User:Sparkit|sparkit ]] [[User_talk:sparkit|(talk)]] 01:04, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

More...

{{cite book | author=West, Shearer | title=The Bullfinch Guide to Art | publisher=U.K.: Bloomsbury Publishing Plc | year=1996 | id=ISBN 0-8212-2137-X}}, lists "Dada", not "Dadaism."

A search at bartleby.com for "Dadaism", returns "Dada."

A search at dictionary.cambridge.org for "Dadaism," returns "not found."

A search at www.metmuseum.org for "Dadaism," returns four listings. "Dada" returns 17.

--[[User:Sparkit|sparkit ]] [[User_talk:sparkit|(talk)]] 05:20, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

I've requested the move. [[Wikipedia:Requested moves#June 12, 2005|move request]]. --[[User:Sparkit|sparkit ]] [[User_talk:sparkit|(talk)]] 04:52, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

* '''Support''' ''—[[User:Mzajac |Michael]] [[User talk:Mzajac |Z.]] 2005-06-17 04:49 Z''
*'''Support''' move to [[Dada]]. [[User:Alexander 007|Alexander 007]] 06:29, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

''This article has been renamed as the result of a [[wikipedia:requested moves|move request]].'' The pages were swapped to retain the history (they were merged). [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 18:31, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you! --[[User:Sparkit|sparkit ]] [[User_talk:sparkit|(talk)]] 05:56, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

==removal of the Bonzo Dog Band from the "Related links" section==

Hello, I noticed you removed the Bonzo Dog Band from [[Dada]] on the grounds that the article is about the art movement that finished in the 20s/30s. However, it has a section called ''legacy'' and you haven't removed [[Tom Stoppard]]. Can you explain your reasoning in more detail? Thanks. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod]] 05:05, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

:So we meet at last? :-)
:I removed it from the "Related links" section as '''IMO the Bonzo Dog Band has only secondary and faint relations with Dada, at least in contrast with that section's other links: 1918 Dada Manifesto, Expressionism, Futurism, Modernism, Surrealism etc.'''

:Arguably, mentioning the band in the legacy section e.g. like this:

::''The British musical group originally named [[Bonzo_Dog_Doo-Dah_Band]] (Doo-Dah being an allusion to Dada) called one song Ready Mades and another The Bride Stripped Bare by Batchelors.''

:could be considered acceptable, '''though only from a mere formal point of view: the band was influenced by Dada - but then, where would that list end? I suppose hundreds, if not thousands of artist of any kind have been subject to Dada influence or be sympathetic to it'''. Wikipedia articles should not be [[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_mirror_or_a_repository_of_links.2C_images.2C_or_media_files|linklists]]. There are some exceptions to the rule for technical articles, but IMO this doesn't apply here.

:'''So the decision should be about relevancy: is the Bonzo Dog Band relevant enough to the subject to be included?''' I'm not too happy with the legacy section, IMO it should center on trends and movements inspired by Dada, possibly including artists that made a lasting imprint on art history. I don't think the Bonzo Dog Band falls into that category. Anyway, you should discuss this here, I might be wrong. ...and fear not: I'm not a Bonzo Dog Band hater. --[[User:Tickle me|Tickle me]] 06:23, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

:*Hello. First a correction: ''The Bonzo Dog '''Dada''' Band'' was the original name, which then became ''Doo-Dah'' as they became tired of describing what ''Dada'' was in interviews, and then finally boiled down to just ''The Bonzo Dog Band''.

::I think I would find it easier to agree with you if I was ''convinced'' that the article could indeed become overrun with those who claim to have been influenced by dada if a tight rein wasn't kept on things: but are there ''really'' that many names that could be put? And even if there are, are ''The Bonzos'' not notable by being a musical example (bearing in mind that beyond the mere randomly generated band-name, the dada references in their titles, they also used arty props and masks on-stage - though I confess I'm ill-equipped to say how true to dada these on-stage devices were) or are there many musical examples that could be added? Do you feel any enthusiasm for having a go at the legacy section? Perhaps then I could better state a case for ''The Bonzos'' inclusion. Otherwise I don't have much to go on, since I'm very much more into ''The Bonzos'' than I'm into ''Dada''.

::Anyway, I'd come in all wound up for a fight, but you've been quite charming, so I find myself annoyingly disarmed. Anyone else care to comment? --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod]] 11:11, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

:::''I'd come in all wound up for a fight'': no offense meant, feel free to include them, if include you must:-) Anyway, as both the Bonzos and Dada are long bygone, we might well wait for comments as you suggested. btw, though certainly none of my business: what about mopping up [[Bonzo_Dog_Doo-Dah_Band]] in the meantime? ''Do you feel any enthusiasm for having a go at the legacy section?'': Err, I will eventually if nobody else does... --[[User:Tickle me|Tickle me]] 12:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

:::*It was me that added the ''cleanup'' notice ;o) I encouraged people on the Bonzos Yahoo Group to contribute, but apparently it fell on deaf ears. I suppose there is a fair bit I could do to it. I seem to be overwhlemed with stuff I want to work on at the moment. ''Tickle me'' I'd be interested to hear your views on what I've done - in terms of presentation - on [[Rachel Whiteread]]. I've tried to initiate a discussion about getting external imagery into accessible positions on the page over at [[Portal_talk:Art#Formatting_visual_arts_articles_with_details_on_individual_works]], it's something I would like to hammer out with community support and then my intention is to use whatever format everyone enjoys on a number of artist's articles. If you would look at Whiteread and then add your view at that portal page I'd be grateful (even if it's negative!) --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod]] 19:15, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

=== Christian Death: removal ===

@84.66.163.10: I removed this till it's been discussed: 
<nowiki>[[Christian Death]], a [[Gothic rock]]/[[Deathrock]] band whose lyrics were heavily inspired by Dada.</nowiki>

From the articles 136 lines (use copy&paste + a line numbered editor) only one: 
''now Rozz showed an interest in Surrealism and the Dada movement and this reflected in the music...'' 
mentions Dada. Please see above. --[[User:Tickle me|tickle ]] [[User_talk:Tickle me|me]] 21:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

:Hi. I'm the guy who added Christian Death. I would like to point out that the [[Rozz Williams]] page has been criticised for not detailing his interest in DaDa. Perhaps the same could be said of the Christian Death page. Alternately, perhaps we should add a link from the nihilism page to the Rozz Williams page? Anyway, allow me to quote some Christian Death lyrics:
:The legless man had directed him to a window
:windows like blind eyes probed the mud
:the minutes that were left
:ran across his throat stuffed with cotton
:and his mouth could hear distant splashes

:Now don't tell me that doesn't sound Dada influenced. [[User:D-Raven]]

::Hi, arguably it does, but IMO that's not the point: I bolded the issues in the posts above that should apply here too. ''perhaps we should add a link from the nihilism page to the Rozz Williams page?'': I won't start a fight but advice against it for the same reasons.

::In the end it boils down to this: Impetuous youth should have some mercy on us old farts... one fine(?) day Dada, Nihilism and whatever will be hapless objects of your weird & whimsical vagaries, while we push up the daisies for you to have a place to merrily dispose of carousal's residue. --[[User:Tickle me|tickle ]] [[User_talk:Tickle me|me]] 00:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to write "Perhaps we should add a link from the dada page to the Rozz Williams page?" but I wrote Nihilism. Once again, I apologies. User: D-Raven

:I would reply no to either suggestion. Adding a link (with explanation, in the body of the article, not in the "See also" section) '''to''' the articles [[Dada]] or [[Nihilism]] '''in''' the [[Christian Death]] page would be appropriate. But neither the articles [[Dada]] or [[Nihilism]] are about popular music, nor are they places to store links to popular music bands. -[[User:Sethmahoney|Seth Mahoney]] 19:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

OK. That doesn't sound Dada influenced. At least I don't think so. It sounds influenced by anything with dark, slightly abstract lyrical value. That could have been influenced by anything from [[Emily Dickinson]] to [[Michael Gira]] to [[Trent Reznor]], but I really don't see Dadaism in that. Put it up next to anything by Tzara, they look nothing alike. sorry : (
--[[User:128.205.124.89|128.205.124.89]] 02:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

== A blogger's -mildly funny- wikispam attempt ==

The [[Carton Tragedy]] link is a wikispam attempt, cf. the [http://merzmag.blogspot.com Book of Merz] link on that article. He vandalized here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dada&oldid=26106342#Berlin Dada#oldid=26106342], user 128.119.132.100.

[http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Carton+Tragedy%22 google "Carton+Tragedy"] (arguably) proves Carton Tragedy's fictional nature. He should use uncyclopedia.org to have fun. Ceterum censeo, spam esse delendam - kill him (and her or it too), ex medio tollendus est!

== Chronology of Dada Cities ==

I have a minor quibble about the order in which the Dada cities are listed under the banner "History" on this page. Right now, the cities come in the order of Zurich, Berlin, Cologne, New York, and then Paris. I feel like this is misleading in two important ways.

First, an issue of chronology: the New York and Paris strains arose almost at the same time as Zurich (though you'll never hear me argue against the notion of Zurich as the undeniable birth place), and yet these cities are listed further down than Berlin. Picabia was working in New York as early as 1915, and Duchamp had been there at least since 1913, the year of the Armory Show. Berlin didn't really get fired up until around 1917, when the threat of a longer war emerged with the American entry into it, or even until 1918, when its members found a new source of disgust in post-war corruption, vice, and just general social decay. For these chronological reasons, I feel like Berlin should be moved below NY and Paris, followed by Cologne and The Netherlands, which -- can we all agree? -- are practically after-thoughts when compared to the works from the primary four cities.

The other discrepancy is ideological, but also influences my request for re-ordering the page's layout. The Berlin section makes a good point of showing how that city's manifestation of Dada was markedly more political and harsher in its criticism of social structures than its more anti-art concerns in NY, Paris, or Zurich, so let's push that point home! Moving Berlin down the list past the other cities, like I suggest above, would not only distinguish them on a time line, but would also help reinforce the point that Berlin Dada was notably different in its ideological aims, as well.

I bring up this issue because I'm only a semi-regular editor of Wiki-pages, and I don't even have the html chops to enact the changes I'm proposing. Plus, I want to make sure all you other contributors are on the same boat as me. If you agree with my long-winded reasoning above, could someone please change the layout of this page to help Wiki-visitors better understand the confusion that is Dada?

Thanks for the time,
Dan Julius (djulius@luc.edu for any responses)

ahhh nono. yeah new york was early, but paris didn't get "fired up" until Tristan Tzara moved there in late 1919. Chronologically it goes Zurich, New York, Berlin, Cologne, Paris.
--[[User:128.205.167.6|128.205.167.6]] 06:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

== ''Nude Descending a Staircase" ==

''Nude Descending a Staircase'' is more a cubist piece than a Dada piece. Also, it was painted 3 or 4 years before Dada got rolling. Painting was<s>n't</s> too traditional for Dada, for the most part. (The Ernst painting would more likely be classifed as Surrealist.) Collage is more representative of Dada. And of Duchamp's works ''[[Fountain]]'', ''In Advance of a Broken Arm'' or ''Blind Man'' would better depict Dada. Or Picabia's ''391'' magazine. [[User:Sparkit|>>sparkit|]][[User_talk:sparkit|TALK<<]] 02:41, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:Good call, [[User:Sparkit|>>sparkit|]], I agree completely. Thanks for improving the article. --[[User:Theoldanarchist|Charles]] 03:43, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

== [[Hannah Höch]] ==

I added Hannah Hoch to the Early Practitioners section, as one of her most famous Dadaist works 'Cut With The Kitchen Knife' predated the Dadaist Manifesto by three years and certainly put her at the forefront of the movement. [[User:Dustyhodges|Dustyhodges]] 11:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

==Citations for quotes needed in "What is Dada?" section==
Currently the section reads:

''According to Tristan Tzara, "God and my toothbrush are Dada, and New Yorkers can be Dada too, if they are not already." A reviewer from the American Art News stated that "The Dada philosophy is the sickest, most paralyzing and most destructive thing that has ever originated from the brain of man." Art historians have described Dada as being "in reaction to what many of the artists saw as nothing more than an insane spectacle of collective homicide."{{Fact|date=April 2008}} Years later, Dada artists described the movement as "a phenomenon bursting forth in the midst of the post-war economic and moral crisis, a savior, a monster, which would lay waste to everything in its path. [It was] a systematic work of destruction and demoralization...In the end it became nothing but an act of sacrilege."{{Fact|date=April 2008}} Dada was "a revolt against a world that was capable of unspeakable horrors."{{Fact|date=April 2008}} Reason and logic had led people into the horrors of war; the only route to salvation was to reject logic and embrace anarchy and the irrational.''

I put all those {{Fact|date=April 2008}}s in there, because those are formatted as if they were direct quotes, but are ''way'' too vaguely attributed. I sincerely doubt every "art historian" has described it in that exact same phrasing (and surely there was a first person who said that, even if it was repeated), and WHICH artists said those two lovely, striking lines? Cite, people. Don't just tell us some "artists" or "art historians" have said something, ''tell us which ones'' said it! I mean, those are all great quotes, very striking and all, very poetic, I love them - but we NEED to know who the heck actually said what, here. [[User:63.21.94.120|63.21.94.120]] 03:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

:I have added references for the first two <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki>s. Enjoy, and do improve if you feel the source says something else. (Using various search engines it doesn't have to take very long to find references, and adding them gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, which I'm not sure <nowiki>{{fact}}</nowiki> does
[[image:SFriendly.gif|18px]].) -- [[User:Woseph|Woseph]] 19:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

::Shouldn't the section be titled "Wat is Dada?" because of this piece? (by Theo van Doesburg) http://static.flickr.com/35/100391044_891b7e7110_m.jpg [[User:Xercessthegreat|Xercessthegreat]] 10:54, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

:::No, that would be esoteric, dontcha think? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:72.177.187.2|72.177.187.2]] ([[User talk:72.177.187.2|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/72.177.187.2|contribs]]) 

== Dada removed ==

Idi Amin Dada was added to the "see also" list. A self-referential attempt at Dada within the article? In any case I removed him. ---[[User:Sluzzelin|Sluzzelin]] 08:56, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== Tel Aviv and other modern things==

I just took this out:

'''Tel Aviv'''

''In the early 2000's a group called [[Free Academy]] is marked to be an [[essentialism|essentialistic]] Dada group, based in [[Tel Aviv]]. Led by Roy Arad and Joshua Simon it had published [[maayan|many articles]] and idea in the Dadaist spirit, such as planning a [[coup]] in [[City Hall]] (first ever large scale municipal takeover), moving Tel Aviv's beach to the center of town - into [[Rabin Square]] and reading poetry in McDonald's branches throughout the city. They have a special army like [[salute]] and recently opened road blocks in the city center, dressed up in highly decorated uniforms. Their film department is called [[Avriri]], and is led by Dadaist filmmaker Nimrod Kamer. "Avriri" main principle is that the making of a film must be held like and regarded as a social event.''

It's a modern thing, if it's even true. Perhaps there needs to be a modern section (or even article?) on modern Dada. Until then... [[User:Totnesmartin|Totnesmartin]] 19:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
:and another:
''Radiohead's CD [[Kid A]] consists of many lyrics said to have been drawn out of a hat, possibly inspired by the dada movement.''

== Citeable article on Smithsonian website ==

http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2006/may/dada.php?page=1

I haven't read it yet... [[User:Sparkit|>>sparkit|]][[User_talk:sparkit|TALK<<]] 15:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

== Ways Dadaism has been described ==

this section has been useful in the [[postmodernism]] page, perhaps it can be here too. [[User:Spencerk|Spencerk]] 08:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

This seems really out of place and awkward. [[User:Ridernyc|Ridernyc]] 20:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Nobody seems to have mentioned an essential aim and penetrating spiritual insight of dadaism: the destruction of the barriers between the sacred and secular, the artistic and non-artistic, the personal and political. I would like to see the spiritual nature of the dada movement addressed, for example, its use of paradox, and it's Zen and parable-like attempts to shock its audience into deep insight and transformation of consciousness. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Antinomi|Antinomi]] ([[User talk:Antinomi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Antinomi|contribs]]) 21:30, 25 June 2008 (UTC) 

==Pronunciation==
How is dada pronounced? Dah dah, or dae dah? --[[User:125.238.114.96|125.238.114.96]] 04:12, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Dah Dah — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Slrrrrrrrrrr|Slrrrrrrrrrr]] ([[User talk:Slrrrrrrrrrr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Slrrrrrrrrrr|contribs]]) 08:33, 2 January 2011 (UTC) 

== Need for disambiguation with Dada giri? ==

"Dada giri" is a word commonly used in India to indicate the act of bullying (example reference: [http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/mar/25inter.htm]) although the meaning of the word "dada" is "elder brother" in [[Bengali language]] (ISO 639-1:bn). The reason I am putting up this question here is that dada-ism (in this Indian context) and Dadaism (in Dada the art phenomenon context) are close interpretations that warrant at least a clarification. What do you think? -[[User:Deepraj|Deepraj]] | [[User talk:Deepraj|Talk]] 17:07, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

==Plagiarized==

[[Special:Contributions/72.68.178.189|User:72.68.178.189]] asserts that "WARNING: THIS PAGE HAS BEEN PLAGIARIZED FROM http://www.museum-online.ru/en/Epoch/Dadaism."

Having watched this article develop over the last several years, I'm certain that the museum-online.ru article was copied from wikipedia, not the other way around. [[User:Sparkit|--sparkit]][[User_talk:sparkit|TALK]] 16:35, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

hey, sparkit. you might be right. but one's person cursory comment does not settle the issue. i tried to contact the museum-online site but it's in russian. this should be investigated. i've announced a few plagiarized articles on wiki, and they were rightly taken down. if you're right, then we should leave it, but we need to clarify the matter first. btw, if you are an expert on plagiarism, perhaps you should spell check it. sorry to be rude, but the whole point is covering our bases, not our basiz. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:72.68.178.189|72.68.178.189]] ([[User talk:72.68.178.189|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/72.68.178.189|contribs]]) 

:Seeing as half the Internet recycles Wikipedia content, I'd say it's much more likely that that's what's happened here as well. Please refrain from editorialising in articles, it compromises their integrity. [[User:Riana|Riana]] [[User talk:Riana|'''⁂''']] 17:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

* (ec) I took the "plagiarized" comment from the main article, as it's not appropriate there. From reviewing the edit history of the article here, it looks strongly like the article grew here (as they do) and wasn't a copy/paste job from the Russian site. My immediate instinct on this one is that it may be copyvio all right, but it's not ours. - [[User:Alison|'''Alison''']] [[User talk:Alison|☺]] 17:52, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

:Other articles on that same site are also extracted from wikipedia, Surrealism for example. What is on that site is the surrealism article from wikipedia from about a year ago. I don't expect my comment to settle the issue. Some investigation into the history of this wikipedia Dada article will show the development of the article -- how it came to the state it was in when copied to the other site, and what's happened to it since. For reference, the copyright violation process is here [[WP:copyvio]]. [[User:Sparkit|--sparkit]][[User_talk:sparkit|TALK]] 17:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

==Um... but what is it?==

Sorry I've read the article through and I can't honestly say that I am any the wiser as to what Dada is. Surrealism, Nihilism, Post-Modernism, cubism and so forth I've no problem understanding but I'm afraid I couldn't really see anything in the article that plainly told me what Dada is. Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here but can anyone help?[[User:AlanD|AlanD]] 18:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
:You would be better off to read/view/see some of the works by the artists mentioned. It's like the old saying ''Writing about music is like dancing about architecture''. -- [[User:146.115.58.152|146.115.58.152]] 07:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
::Thanks. BUt then again surely an encyclopedia article should be able to define the subject of the article so that a layperson can understand it?[[User:AlanD|AlanD]] 08:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Have another look at the intro -- it was originally a bunch of people protesting war with avant gardé art, and as a cultural movement much has sprung from that. ←[[User talk:BenB4|BenB4]] 17:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

== GA Rereview ==

As part of the [[WP:UCGA]] work, I've put this article up for a [[WP:GA/R|GA re-review]] - the GA was added by an anon IP and the article currently lacks references to support a GA, among other possible problems others may find. --[[User:Masem|Masem]] 20:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
:This article has been delisted from [[WP:GA]] per [[WP:GA/R]]. The discussion, now in archive, can be found [[Wikipedia:Good_article_review/Archive_26#Dada|here]]. Once the article meets the criteria listed at [[WP:WIAGA]], it may be nominated at [[WP:GAC]]. Regards, [[User:LaraLove|Lara]][[User_talk:LaraLove|♥Love]] 17:12, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

== The Onion article ==

[http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/hard_to_tell_if_wikipedia Hard To Tell If Wikipedia Entry On Dada Has Been Vandalized Or Not]. -- [[User:146.115.58.152|146.115.58.152]] 07:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

: The next week or so should be very interesting. [[User:Rstandefer|Rstandefer]] 14:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

=== So, which is it? ===

; A) ongoing vandalization is being deleted through vigilant updating
# [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] 15:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

; B) a deliberate statement on the impermanence of superficial petit-bourgeois culture in the age of modernity

# ←[[User:Leondegrance|Leondegrance]] 22:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
# ←[[User:Plasticup |Plasticup]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|C]] 02:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

; C) voting is evil
# ←[[User talk:BenB4|BenB4]] 17:19, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

; D) eggbeater

# ←[[User:67.98.206.2|67.98.206.2]] 19:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
# ←[[User:Lizz612|Lizz612]] 19:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC) and then some.

B. Definately B. Though I do wish some of the text in this article was in the form of a Krazy Kat cartoon. [[User:Kvn8907|Kevin]] 22:55, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Pi in your face! [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] 15:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
[[:Image:1937 1107 kkat brick 500.jpg|300px]] This is [[Krazy Kat]]. [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] 15:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

== Modern usage? ==

I cut this from the "legacy" section, and I bring it here for discussion:

:The satirical [[Church of the SubGenius]] pays homage to Dada in its use of the term "[[wikt:Bulldada|Bulldada]]", which has passed into common usage as a description for concepts and items that are unintentionally ironic.{{Fact|date=September 2007}}

:The [[Brotherhood of Dada]] is a fictional gang in [[DC Comics]]. They are devoted to all things absurd and bizarre.

:The word Dada Core used to describe an underground music movement that originated in south western New York, as a reaction to the "sterile and stagnating" local music scene and overwrought ego of so called Indie rock bands. The genre's definitive act Japanese Lady Boy Massacre is well known for a wide range of musical styles.

Is any of this really relevant? The Church of the SubGenius, I would say, can legitimately be said to be influenced by Dada. Still, it is unreferenced. The comic book reference is really beside the point and trivial. This alleged "music movement" in southwestern New York really stretches the limits of believability, notability, verifiability, and relevance. Even if it were referenced and linked, so what? I would argue that if this section were to be deleted as, essentially, a trivia section, the article would not be hurt one bit. ---[[User:RepublicanJacobite|RepublicanJacobite]]''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|The'FortyFive']]'' 17:43, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

== "Soiree DADA" ==
I removed this paragraph from the "legacy" section, and I bring it here for discussion:

:In 1996, [[WNEP Theater]] in Chicago began performing Soiree DADA, created by Joe Janes and Joel Jeske. The show, which included new Dada sound poetry, short plays and manifestos, continues to be performed in Chicago with occasional events in Los Angeles and New York.

Is this notable enough to merit mention in the article? There are no references, none of the participants have articles, and there is nothing in this paragraph that indicates that this is anything of any particular importance. Plenty of arts groups claim descent from the Dadaists, but we are not going to list them all. ---[[User:RepublicanJacobite|RepublicanJacobite]]''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|The'FortyFive']]'' 17:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
:Considering that it [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dada&diff=prev&oldid=149916622 was added] by an editor with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JenJen1138 no other edits] to his/her credit...I would say it is nothing more than advertising for a non-notable group. [[User:Irishguy|'''IrishGuy''']] [[User talk:Irishguy|''talk'']] 18:32, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

=='World War II to 1920"==
When you search 'dada' on google the wikipedia description describes dada as World War II to 1920, obviously incorrect. I don't know how to change it though [[Special:Contributions/220.253.130.134|220.253.130.134]] ([[User talk:220.253.130.134|talk]]) 05:53, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
:Me neither, but it's wonderfully Dadaist! [[User:Totnesmartin|Totnesmartin]] ([[User talk:Totnesmartin|talk]]) 20:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

== Poorly-constructed article ==

A neophyte reading the "Overview" section will learn nothing, and the next section is about etymology.

Explain what it is in the thesis. Why is this such a hard concept for article editors to understand? [[Special:Contributions/71.131.202.152|71.131.202.152]] ([[User talk:71.131.202.152|talk]]) 19:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

== new page ==

Crazy World http://free21g.blogspot.com by jose m. fernandez (sevilla, spain) —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Dadaworld|Dadaworld]] ([[User talk:Dadaworld|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dadaworld|contribs]]) 01:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC) 

== Truisms ==

I have removed the following and bring it here for discussion. Quotation sections like this are not terribly helpful, as they give no source, and they remove the quotes from their context. Such information, when truly descriptive, edifying, and illuminating, should be integrated into the main text. ---[[User:RepublicanJacobite|RepublicanJacobite]]''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|The'FortyFive']]'' 02:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
<blockquote>
:"Dada is like your hopes: nothing
:like your paradise: nothing
:like your idols: nothing
:like your heroes: nothing
:like your artists: nothing
:like your religions: nothing" - Francis Picabia

:"Before Dada was there, there was Dada." - Hans Arp, 1919

:"In principle I am against manifestos, as I am also against principles." - Tristan Tzara, 1919

:"I can live without eating and drinking but not without DADA." - George Grosz, 1919

:"Art is dead. Long live Dada." - Walter Serner

:"I have forced myself to contradict myself in order to avoid conforming to my own taste." - Marcel Duchamp

:"The normal state of man is Dada." - First International Dada Fair poster, 1919

:"The true dadas are against Dada." - First International Dada Fair poster, 1919

:"Art has nothing to do with taste. Art is not there to be tasted." - Max Ernst

:"Dada signified nothing, it is nothing, nothing nothing . . ." - Francis Picabia, 1915

:"Dada has never claimed to have anything to do with art." - Max Ernst, 1920

:"No one can escape from DADA." - Tristan Tzara, 1920
</blockquote>

==Image copyright problem with File:An Anna Blume.jpg==
The image [[:File:An Anna Blume.jpg]] is used in this article under a claim of [[WP:NFC|fair use]], but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the [[WP:NFCC|requirements for such images]] when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an [[Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline|explanation]] linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

:* That there is a [[Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline|non-free use rationale]] on the image's description page for the use in this article.
:* That this article is linked to from the image description page.


This is an automated notice by [[User:FairuseBot|FairuseBot]]. For assistance on the image use policy, see [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]]. --10:45, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
:added Fair Use Rationale per request..[[User:Modernist|Modernist]] ([[User talk:Modernist|talk]]) 04:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

== Derrida? ==

I removed the following from the lede and bring it here for discussion:

:A letter by professors at the [[University of Cambridge]], including [[W. V. Quine]], [[David Malet Armstrong|David Armstrong]], [[Ruth Barcan Marcus]], and [[René Thom]], accused renowned philosopher [[Jaques Derrida]]'s work as being composed of "tricks and gimmicks similar to those of the [[Dada]]ists[,]" and that it did "not meet accepted standards of clarity and rigor".

This was inserted by [[User:Sweetmoose6|Sweetmoose6]] on 13 June without any explanation or edit summary. I fail to see the relevance, and no source is provided to prove this ever even occurred. Regardless, it certainly does not belong in the lede, if it belongs in the article at all. Anyone have any thoughts on this? ---'''[[User:RepublicanJacobite|RepublicanJacobite]]'''''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|The'FortyFive']]'' 23:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
:Linked this movement to something bigger.[[User:Sweetmoose6|Sweetmoose6]] ([[User talk:Sweetmoose6|talk]]) 04:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Good call. [[User:LombrizFeliz|LombrizFeliz]] ([[User talk:LombrizFeliz|talk]]) 02:13, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== Removed "Meg Gröss" ==

I am suspicious of this entry in the list of notable Dadaists. After a bit of research, I have decided to remove it. The top 20 results from a [http://www.google.com/search?gbv=2&hl=en&q=%22Meg+Gr%C3%B6ss%22+dada&start=10&sa=N Google Search] were Wikipedia mirrors. All the results from a [http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=%22Meg%20Gr%C3%B6ss%22%20dada&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi Google Image Search] were from this Wikipedia page. She is redlinked (hardly a point for notability). She is not even on the [[List of Dadaists|complete List of Dadaists]]. Thus I have removed it. Please RS notability if replacing.
::''[[User:Peace and Passion|Peace and Passion]]'' ☮  ''([[User talk:Peace and Passion|"I'm listening...."]]) 20:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
::::I have found where it was added in: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dada&diff=277221162&oldid=276301651 this diff]. Makes me think even more that this was a bit of ingenious "test-the-system" vandalism. The umlaut-dots really made it look like a "realistic" entry, compared to the others added at other times, like [[Barry Humphries]]!
::::::''[[User:Peace and Passion|Peace and Passion]]'' ☮  ''([[User talk:Peace and Passion|"I'm listening...."]]) 20:34, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

== Poor quality Article without adequate references ==
Inconsistencies regarding the date when Hugo Ball reads manifesto

This [[Dada#Z.C3.BCrich|Dada]] page says Hugo read the manifesto on July 14, 1916, but the [[Cabaret_Voltaire_(Zürich)|Cabaret Voltaire]] page says the manifesto was read on July 28, 1916. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.128.223.80|86.128.223.80]] ([[User talk:86.128.223.80|talk]]) 16:20, 8 April 2010 (UTC) 
:Two sources can contradict one another on such historical details. This is not at all uncommon. Such an inconsistency does not justify your ad hominem attack. ---'''[[User:RepublicanJacobite|RepublicanJacobite]]'''''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|The'FortyFive']]'' 17:42, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Woooo; it seems that someone got out of the wrong side of bed. I am sorry if I gave the impression I was making a "ad hominem attack". I am perplexed why you would think I am making an attack. The inconsistencies regarding the date indicate, to my mind, a poor threshold of verifiability. Merely because I raise what I consider to be a valid criticism this does not mean I am making a personal attack. I suggest that if nobody is really sure of the date then perhaps only the month and year should be included? It seems if editors can pick and choose between a number of dates, for a historical event, then it is impossible to adhere to a [[Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view|neutral point of view]]? If you wish to engage in further discussion it would be appreciated if you could [[Assume_Good_Faith|assume good faith]] regarding my comments. I am merely seeking to improve upon the articles in question. [[Special:Contributions/81.154.18.132|81.154.18.132]] ([[User talk:81.154.18.132|talk]]) 10:52, 9 April 2010 (UTC)XVarn

Where is the reference that corroborates the date of 14 July 1916? I can't seem to find this reference therefore I suggest [[WP:V|verifiability]] is lacking thus the day at least should be removed and only the month and year included. [[Special:Contributions/81.154.18.132|81.154.18.132]] ([[User talk:81.154.18.132|talk]]) 11:06, 9 April 2010 (UTC)XVarn

== Significant edits necessary ==

This article reads a little bit like an 11th grade research paper. Amongst other things, it contains unnecessary detail. I believe an easy way to start cleaning it would be to remove "Origins of the word DADA" as this section contains mere speculations. There is no clear academic consensus on why DADA is named DADA and it is meant to be so. Also, the section is written in poor grammar. I have removed the section, please add any comments or questions about the decision. [[User:LombrizFeliz|LombrizFeliz]] ([[User talk:LombrizFeliz|talk]]) 02:07, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

== First sentence ==
In what universe could this sentence, from the first line of the article, be true? Please correct it. -- [[Special:Contributions/77.7.131.141|77.7.131.141]] ([[User talk:77.7.131.141|talk]]) 15:44, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
:Can you please be more specific as to what you believe is the problem? Your hysterical message is not helpful. ---'''[[User:RepublicanJacobite|RepublicanJacobite]]'''''[[User talk:RepublicanJacobite|The'FortyFive']]'' 15:56, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

== Dada Magazine Translations ==

Why was the link to the Dada Magazine translations removed? The other "External Links" are to examples of Dada art and literature, and these magazines are nothing but Dada art and literature created by the most prominent and influential members of the "movement." They are the only english translations of these magazines on the internet. I feel like they are a great asset to anyone interested in Dada.

Individual links to each issue of the magazine:

ossilegium.com/dada/one/
ossilegium.com/dada/two/
ossilegium.com/dada/three/

The main website of the translator:

ossilegium.com — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Slrrrrrrrrrr|Slrrrrrrrrrr]] ([[User talk:Slrrrrrrrrrr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Slrrrrrrrrrr|contribs]]) 08:41, 2 January 2011 (UTC) 

== "Dada was melding into surrealism" ==

I feel that this line is an unfair portrayal of the connection between Dada and Surrealism.

Dada did not "become" Surrealism. Surrealism was an artistically violent mutiny on Tzara's nihilism led by Andre Breton.

Tzara's movement was a fire eating away at the smug and bourgeois world of the "artistic" imitation of reality. Their poems were giant blood-drenched middle fingers pointed at the church, at the military, and most of all, at the artistic institutions that seemed, to them, to be stifling humanity's creative impulses. After they decimated the art world and more or less "took over", Breton decided that instead of further participating in this destruction he would begin a movement dedicated to creating art that went beyond reality. The idea parallels the driving force behind Dada but is different in that Breton's movement is about creating a new kind of art, whereas Tzara's was about the destruction of old art. Tzara's movement was necessary for Breton's to exist, but one is not the other. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Slrrrrrrrrrr|Slrrrrrrrrrr]] ([[User talk:Slrrrrrrrrrr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Slrrrrrrrrrr|contribs]]) 09:06, 2 January 2011 (UTC) 

== Where is absurdity? ==

Where is absurdity? I searched and the term "absurd" does not occur in the article. [[User:PPdd|PPdd]] ([[User talk:PPdd|talk]]) 01:46, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

== Dada as 'anti-art' - some confusion ==

I have marked the comments in the Overview describing Dada as 'anti-art' as dubious and needing citation. 'Anti-art' is an often-used but unhelpful term in this case; while Dada challenged existing art mores, to claim that it rejected aesthetics is nonsensical.

Consider:

‘It is important to understand that Dada was not really anti-art as is often thought; quite the contrary, the Dadaists fervently believed in art as the repository and expression of humane and true civilized values. Believing this they naturally set out to purge existing art and create new and valid forms’.

- Simon Wilson, ‘Surrealist Painting’, Phaidon Press, 3rd ed, 1991, p. 5, and further comments, ibid.

[[Special:Contributions/94.172.224.249|94.172.224.249]] ([[User talk:94.172.224.249|talk]]) 19:19, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

== Copied ==

Just thought the editors of this article would like to know that their hard work appears to have been copied to a Wikia page: [http://mydadaistm.wikia.com/wiki/Dada]. The page creator, [http://mydadaistm.wikia.com/index.php?title=Dada&action=history Metsfan67], seems to be the same [[User:Metsfan67|Metsfan67]] who links to the Wikia [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AMetsfan67&action=historysubmit&diff=459733383&oldid=443096445 here]. Not sure how or whether to pursue this so am leaving this note here. '''''[[User:ClaretAsh|Claret]][[User talk:ClaretAsh|Ash]]''''' 12:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

== New York Dada not a result of the war? ==

So-called New York Dada (Duchamp, Picabia) was a result of the Armory Show, even if the War played a role later on, but NY was not the same as Zurich. --[[User:Radh|Radh]] ([[User talk:Radh|talk]]) 21:54, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

== Vague Intro, hard to understand for beginners ==

The introduction talks about everything related to Dadaism, except for what the hell it actually is. It starts off with "''Dadaism is a cultural movement that began in Zurich, Switzerland, during World War I and peaked from 1916 to 1922.''". I don't read the introduction to learn that it began in Zurich, I read to learn what it is.

The next thing after the first sentence is a very long quote that does give a very vague description of Dadaism, but it's mostly just history. A long quote might be appropriate for a college textbook where the goal is to develop an in-depth understanding, but the only reason I came here was because it was mentioned in another article and I wanted to have a general idea of what it is. Putting the history, origin, and etymology in the introduction only makes finding the essence of Dadism difficult for someone who has no idea what it is. After reading the introduction multiple times I still only know that it is a cultural movement associated with nonsense. Did a Dadaist write the intro?? [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 15:53, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2012 Zombie controversy

2012-06-07T05:30:06Z

Parthian Scribe:

===[[2012 Zombie controversy]]===
{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|S}}

:{{la|2012 Zombie controversy}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2012 Zombie controversy|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 June 3#{{anchorencode:2012 Zombie controversy}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{•}} [http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2012_Zombie_controversy Stats])
:({{Find sources|2012 Zombie controversy}})
Not a real controversy (or anything to do with 'zombies'), merely a sensationalist media meme made by stringing together a few unrelated incidents. This will probably have been forgotten by next week. [[User:Robofish|Robofish]] ([[User talk:Robofish|talk]]) 11:55, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
:(OK, to be fair, we do have an article on [[Summer of the Shark]]. But one article on a silly media frenzy doesn't justify another, and this one hasn't yet demonstrated lasting notability.) [[User:Robofish|Robofish]] ([[User talk:Robofish|talk]]) 12:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
:::the shark one was being discussed and analyzed at least 3 years later. if this search trend is still being discussed in 2015, THEN we might have a basis for an article. -- [[User talk:TheRedPenOfDoom|The Red Pen of Doom]] 21:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
'''Keep''' Obviously it's just sensationalism but it's been fairly substantive, to the point that the [http://rt.com/usa/news/cdc-denies-zombie-apocalypse-855/ CDC was asked about it]. I'd say it was noteworthy. [[User:CartoonDiablo|CartoonDiablo]] ([[User talk:CartoonDiablo|talk]]) 16:38, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
:Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Events|list of Events-related deletion discussions]].  [[User:Gene93k|• Gene93k]] ([[User talk:Gene93k|talk]]) 19:34, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Agree that this is nothing more than a media made meme (and not that it is widely reported). [[User:SYSS Mouse|SYSS Mouse]] ([[User talk:SYSS Mouse|talk]]) 19:39, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''Moderate Keep''' The article may be based on an event fed by "media sensationalism", but if its scope is as immense and perpetual as past [[media circus]] events, it could be worthy of keeping. Also, the article is in its infancy and with just substantial revision it could be fashioned better. ~ [[User:Jedi94|Jedi94]] 19:25, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' Just because it may sound absurd because zombies don't exist doesn't make it non-notable. [[User:KerathFreeman|KerathFreeman]] ([[User talk:KerathFreeman|talk]]) 11:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
**it is not the fact that ''zombies'' don't exist. it is the fact that a ''controversy'' doesn't exist. the news stories are only reporting a short term blip in google search term trending. we certainly do NOT need to have articles about every unusual search term trend.-- [[User talk:TheRedPenOfDoom|The Red Pen of Doom]] 21:35, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' - this is a good overview article; a category would be so complicated as to be useless. It is a widely reported meme, as noted by the references therein. [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] ([[User talk:Bearian|talk]]) 20:44, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''delete''' the news reports are just a slow news day filler story about a google search trend (and they are simply the same recycled AP story). absolutely not by any way by any interpretation encyclopedic. -- [[User talk:TheRedPenOfDoom|The Red Pen of Doom]] 20:47, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
:It's not a slow news day if a story is followed up by the media a week later and more. This is actually about several stories over a months' time. So [[WP:NOTNEWS]] does not apply here. [[User:Bearian|Bearian]] ([[User talk:Bearian|talk]]) 20:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
::Neither of the newly added week later stories talk about the perported subject of the article, the "zombie controversy", nor the '''actual''' subject of the original news stories, the trending of a google search term. -- [[User talk:TheRedPenOfDoom|The Red Pen of Doom]] 21:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. There is no controversy. [[User:Drmies|Drmies]] ([[User talk:Drmies|talk]]) 21:38, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. Possibly rename to [[Incidents of Cannibalism in 2012]]. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 05:30, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Richard Aoki

2012-04-28T23:23:53Z

Parthian Scribe: That's the correct spelling for that position of that position in the Black Panthers.

{{Infobox Person
|name = Richard Aoki
|image = RichardAoki.jpg
|image_size =
|caption =
|birth_name =
|birth_date = {{birth date|1938|11|20|mf=y}}
|birth_place = [[San Leandro, California]], [[United States]]
|death_date = {{Death date and age|2009|03|15|1938|11|20|mf=y}}
|death_place = [[Berkeley, California]], United States
|body_discovered =
|death_cause = complications from dialysis
|resting_place =
|resting_place_coordinates = 
|residence =
|nationality = United States
|ethnicity =
|citizenship =
|other_names =
|known_for =
|education = [[Merritt College]][[University of California, Berkeley]]
|alma_mater =
|employer =
|occupation = civil rights activist
|years_active =
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|salary =
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'''Richard Aoki''' ({{IPAc-en|icon|ɑ:|ˈ|oʊ|k|i}} or {{IPAc-en|eɪ|ˈ|oʊ|k|i}}; 20 November 1938 – 15 March 2009) was an [[United States|American]] [[civil rights]] activist. He was one of the first members of the [[Black Panther Party]] and was eventually promoted to the position of Field Marshall. Although there were several [[Asian American]]s in the Black Panther Party, Aoki was the only one to have a formal leadership position.<ref name="bio1">{{cite web|url=http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/Our_Stories/Chapter3/Richard_Aoki.html|title=Another shade of Black Panther...|publisher=It's About Time|accessdate=2009-06-07}}</ref><ref name="AsianWeek">{{cite web|url=http://www.asianweek.com/2001_04_27/feature_richardaoki.html|title=Back in the Day...|publisher=[[AsianWeek]]|author=Neela Banerjee|date=2001-04-27|accessdate=2009-06-07}}</ref>

==Life==
Aoki was born in [[San Leandro, California]] in 1938 to [[Japanese people|Japanese]] parents. He and his family were [[Japanese American Internment|interned]] at the [[Topaz War Relocation Center]] in [[Utah]] from 1942 to 1945. They moved to [[Oakland, California]] after [[World War II]] ended. Aoki spent eight years serving in the [[United States Army]], first as a medic and later in the infantry. He attended [[Merritt College]] for two years, where he became close friends with his longtime acquaintances [[Huey Newton]] and [[Bobby Seale]], the founding members of the Black Panther Party; the organization was founded in October 1966, one month after Aoki transferred to the [[University of California, Berkeley]]. He graduated with a bachelor's degree in sociology in 1968 and a [[Master of Social Work]] degree in 1970.

Aoki died at his home in [[Berkeley, California|Berkeley]] from complications from [[dialysis]].<ref name=chang>{{cite web|author=Momo Chang|title=Richard Aoki, charter member of Black Panthers, dies in Berkeley|publisher=[[San Jose Mercury News]]|date=2009-03-18|accessdate=2009-06-07|url=http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_11942438}}</ref> His life was chronicled in the 2009 documentary film, ''Aoki''.<ref name="PuckLo">{{cite web|url=http://oaklandnorth.net/2009/11/12/film-on-former-panther-richard-aoki-debuts-tonight/|title=Film on former Panther Richard Aoki debuts|author=Puck Lo|publisher=Oakland North|date=2009-11-12|accessdate=2010-02-19}}</ref>

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[http://aokifilm.com Official website for ''Aoki, A Film Documentary''] (includes video clips from film)

{{BlackPanther}}

{{Persondata 
| NAME = Aoki, Richard
| ALTERNATIVE NAMES =
| SHORT DESCRIPTION =
| DATE OF BIRTH = 1938-11-20
| PLACE OF BIRTH = [[San Leandro, California]], [[United States]]
| DATE OF DEATH = 2009-03-15
| PLACE OF DEATH = [[Berkeley, California]], United States
}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Aoki, Richard}}
[[Category:1938 births]]
[[Category:2009 deaths]]
[[Category:People from San Leandro, California]]
[[Category:Asian American Movement activists]]
[[Category:Japanese-American civil rights activists]]
[[Category:Black Panther Party members]]
[[Category:COINTELPRO targets]]
[[Category:Japanese-American internees]]

{{US-activist-stub}}

[[de:Richard Aoki]]
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[[pl:Richard Aoki]]

Geoffrey Arend

2012-04-22T22:19:57Z

Parthian Scribe: rv - no source

{{Infobox person
| name = Geoffrey Arend
| image = Geoffrey Arend 2011.jpg
| caption = Arend in September 2011
| birth_name =
| birth_date = {{Birth date and age|1978|02|28}}
| birth_place = [[Manhattan]], New York City
| other_names =
| occupation = Actor
| years_active = 1999–present
| spouse = [[Christina Hendricks]] (m. 2009-present)
}}
'''Geoffrey Arend''' (born February 28, 1978) is an [[United States|American]] [[actor]].

==Life and career==
Arend was born in the [[Manhattan]] borough of [[New York City]], to a [[White people|American father of European extraction]] and a [[Pakistan|Pakistani]] mother.<ref>http://web.starmagazine.com/news/16137</ref> He graduated from New York City's [[Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts]] in 1996. In 2000, he began providing voices for [[video games]] such as ''[[Daria's Inferno]]'' and soon landed small roles in films such as ''[[Super Troopers]]'' and ''[[Bubble Boy (film)|Bubble Boy]]''. He played a mentally challenged man in the film ''[[The Ringer (2005 film)|The Ringer]]'', and then had a supporting role in the [[romantic comedy]] ''[[(500) Days of Summer]]''. On October 11, 2009, Arend married [[actress]] [[Christina Hendricks]].<ref>http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20311577,00.html</ref>

Arend now appears in the [[medical drama]] television series ''[[Body of Proof]]'', which was to have premiered on [[American Broadcasting Company|ABC]] in October 2010, but had been pushed back to March 2011.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news/2010/05/14/abc-adds-body-of-proof-off-the-map-to-roster/8673/|title=ABC Adds "Body of Proof," "Off the Map" to Roster|date=May 14, 2010|work=The Futon Critic|accessdate=May 18, 2010}}</ref>

==Filmography==
*''[[Devil (film)|Devil]]'' (2010) – Vince McCormick
*''[[Worst Friends]]'' (2010) – Jeremey
*''[[Paper Tigers (film)|Paper Tigers]]'' (2009) – Meu
*''[[Rex (film)|Rex]]'' (2009) – Jeffrey Wagstaff
*''[[(500) Days of Summer]]'' (2009) – Mckenzie
*''[[An American Carol]]'' (2008) – Mohammed
*''[[She Pedals Fast (For a Girl)]]'' (2008) – Catcaller
*''[[Killing Zelda Sparks]]'' (2007) – Terry Seville
*''[[Loveless in Los Angeles]]'' (2007) – Ryan
*''[[Making It Legal]]'' (2007) – Ethan
*''[[Pledge This!]]'' (2006) – Dax / Mother / Photographer
*''[[Ultraviolet]]'' (2006) - uncredited / first victim of plague
*''[[The Ringer (2005 film)|The Ringer]]'' (2005) – Winston
*''[[Press or Say '2']]'' (2005) – Temp Agent (voice)
*''[[Garden State (film)|Garden State]]'' (2004) – Karl Benson
*''[[A Tale of Two Pizzas]]'' (2003) – Johnny
*''[[It Runs in the Family (2003 film)|It Runs in the Family]]'' (2003) – Malik
*''[[Porn 'n Chicken]]'' (2002) (TV) – Andy
*''[[Is It College Yet?]]'' (2002) – Charles 'Upchuck' Ruttheimer III (voice)
*''[[Bubble Boy (film)|Bubble Boy]]'' (2001) – Flipper Boy
*''[[Super Troopers]]'' (2001) – College Boy 3

==TV==
*''[[Body of Proof]]'' (2010–present) – [[Dr. Ethan Gross]] (Main Cast)
*''[[Medium (TV series)|Medium]]'' (2009) - Andy Seward (1 episode)
*''[[Trust Me (TV series)|Trust Me]]'' (2009) – Hector Culligan (13 episodes)
*''[[Greek (TV show)|Greek]]'' (2008) – Egyptian Joe (2 episodes)
*''[[The Wrong Coast]]'' (2004) – Various Celebrity Voices
*''[[Undeclared]]'' (2002) – Jimmy (1 episode)
*''[[Daria]]'' (1997–2002) Charles "Upchuck" Ruttheimer, III (64 episodes)

==Video games==
*''[[Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas]]'' (2004) – Pedestrian (voice)
*''[[Red Dead Revolver]]'' (2004) – Cowboys #6/Mr. Black/Prof. Perry (voice)
*''[[Daria's Inferno]]'' (2000) (voice)

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*{{IMDb name|0034309}}
* [http://www.geoffrey-arend.com/ Geoffrey Arend Unofficial Fansite. ]

{{Persondata 
| NAME = Arend, Geoffrey
| ALTERNATIVE NAMES =
| SHORT DESCRIPTION =
| DATE OF BIRTH = February 28, 1978
| PLACE OF BIRTH = [[Manhattan]], New York City
| DATE OF DEATH =
| PLACE OF DEATH =
}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Arend, Geoffrey}}
[[Category:1978 births]]
[[Category:American film actors]]
[[Category:American actors of Pakistani descent]]
[[Category:American people of Pakistani descent]]
[[Category:American television actors]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:Actors from New York City]]
[[Category:Body of Proof|Arend, Geoffrey]]

[[fr:Geoffrey Arend]]
[[it:Geoffrey Arend]]
[[ru:Аренд, Джеффри]]

Allah

2012-04-22T04:23:44Z

Parthian Scribe:

{{Use dmy dates|date=April 2012}}
{{about|the Arabic word "Allah"|the Islamic view of God|God in Islam}}
{{Other uses}}

{{good article}}
{{Pp-semi-indef}}{{Pp-move-indef}}
[[File:Allah-eser-green.png|thumb|right|Name of ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' after the 17th century Ottoman calligrapher [[Hâfız Osman]]]]
'''Allah''' ({{IPAc-en|lang|pron|ˈ|æ|l|ə}} or {{IPAc-en|ˈ|ɑː|l|ə}}; {{lang-ar|الله}} {{transl|ar|DIN|''Allāh''}}, {{IPA-ar|ʔɑlˈlɑː|IPA|Ar-allah.ogg}}, {{IPA-ar|ʔalˤˈlˤɑː|}}) is a word for '''God''' used in the context of Islam.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/allah |title=Allah |author=Merriam-Webster |publisher=Merriam-Webster |accessdate=25 February 2012}}</ref> In [[Arabic language|Arabic]], the word means simply "the God".<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/faithgod.html |title=God |work=Islam: Empire of Faith |publisher=PBS|accessdate=18 December 2010}}</ref><ref>"Islam and Christianity", ''Encyclopedia of Christianity'' (2001): Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews also refer to God as ''Allāh''.</ref><ref>{{Cite encyclopedia | title=Allah | encyclopedia=Encyclopaedia of Islam Online | author=L. Gardet | accessdate=2 May 2007}}</ref> It is used primarily by Muslims, and often, albeit not exclusively, used by [[Bahá'í]]s, [[Arabic language|Arabic-speaking]] [[Eastern Catholic Churches|Eastern Catholic Christians]], [[Malta|Maltese]] Roman Catholics, [[Eastern Orthodox|Eastern Orthodox Christians]], [[Mizrahi Jews]] and [[Sikhs]].<ref name="Britannica">
"Allah." [[Encyclopædia Britannica]]. 2007. Encyclopædia Britannica</ref><ref name="EncMMENA">Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa, ''Allah''</ref><ref name="Columbia">[[Columbia Encyclopedia]], ''Allah''</ref> It is related to ''{{Unicode|ʼĔlāhā}}'' in [[Aramaic language|Aramaic]].

==Etymology==
[[File:Arabic components (letters) in the word Allah.svg|thumb|right|240px| The Arabic components that build-up the word "Allah": 1. [[Aleph#Arabic|alif]] 2. [[Hamza#Hamzat waṣl|hamzat waṣl]] (همزة وصل‎‎) 3. [[Lamedh#Arabic lām|lām]] 4. lām 5. [[shadda]] (شدة‎) 6. [[dagger alif]] (ألف خنجرية‎‎) 7. [[He (letter)#Arabic hāʾ|hāʾ]]]]
The term ''Allāh'' is derived from a [[Synalepha|contraction]] of the Arabic definite article ''[[al-]]'' "the" and ''[[ʾilāh|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾilāh}}]]'' "deity, god" to ''{{transl|ar|DIN|al-lāh}}'' meaning "the [sole] deity, God" ({{lang|grc|ὁ θεὸς μόνος}}, ''ho theos monos'').<ref name="EoI">L. Gardet, ''Allah'', Encyclopaedia of Islam</ref>
[[Cognates]] of the name "Allāh" exist in other [[Semitic languages]], including [[Hebrew language|Hebrew]] and [[Aramaic language|Aramaic]].<ref name=autogenerated1>Columbia Encyclopaedia says: Derived from an old Semitic root referring to the Divine and used in the Canaanite ''[[El (deity)|El]]'', the Mesopotamian ''[[Ilah|ilu]]'', and the biblical ''[[Elohim]]'' and ''[[Eloah]]'', the word Allah is used by all Arabic-speaking Muslims, Christians, Jews, and other monotheists.</ref> [[Biblical Hebrew]] mostly uses the plural form (but functional singular) ''[[Elohim]]''. The corresponding [[Aramaic]] form is ''{{Unicode|ʼĔlāhā}}'' {{lang|arc|ܐܠܗܐ}} in [[Biblical Aramaic]] and ''[[Alaha|{{Unicode|ʼAlâhâ}}]]'' {{lang|arc|ܐܲܠܵܗܵܐ}} in [[Syriac language|Syriac]] as used by the [[Assyrian Christians|Assyrian Church]], both meaning simply "God".<ref name="cal">[http://cal1.cn.huc.edu The Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon] – Entry for ''{{Unicode|ʼlh}}''</ref> In the [[Sikh]] scriptures, [[Guru Granth Sahib]], the term ''Allah'' ({{lang-pa|ਅਲਹੁ}}) is used 46 times respectively.

The name was previously used by [[Arabian mythology|pagan]] [[Mecca]]ns as a reference to a [[creator deity]], possibly the supreme deity in [[pre-Islamic Arabia]].<ref name=autogenerated2>L. Gardet, "Allah", ''Encyclopedia of Islam''</ref><ref name="smith">{{cite encyclopedia |last= Smith |first= Peter |encyclopedia= A concise encyclopedia of the Bahá'í Faith |title= prayer |year= 2000 |publisher=Oneworld Publications |location= Oxford |isbn= 978-1-85168-184-6 |pages= 274–275}}</ref>
The concepts associated with the term ''Allah'' (as a deity) differ among religious traditions. In pre-Islamic Arabia amongst pagan Arabs, ''Allah'' was not considered the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters–a concept that was deleted under the process of [[Islamization]]. In Islam, the name ''Allah'' is the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name, and all other divine names are believed to refer back to Allah.<ref name="Tao-Islam">
{{Cite book
| last =Murata
| first =Sachiko
| author-link =
| last2 =
| first2 =
| author2-link =
| publication-date =
| year =1992
| title =The Tao of Islam : a sourcebook on gender relationships in Islamic thought
| edition =
| series =
| publication-place =Albany NY USA
| place =
| publisher=SUNY
| id =
| isbn =978-0-7914-0914-5
| oclc =
| url =
}}</ref>
''Allah'' is unique, the only Deity, [[Creator deity|creator of the universe]] and omnipotent.<ref name="Britannica"/><ref name="EncMMENA"/> Arab Christians today use terms such as ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh al-ʾAb}}'' ({{lang|ar|الله الأب}}, "God the Father") to distinguish their usage from Muslim usage.<ref name="Cambridge">{{cite book |author=Lewis, Bernard; Holt, P. M.; Holt, Peter R.; Lambton, Ann Katherine Swynford |title=The Cambridge history of Islam |publisher=University Press |location=Cambridge, Eng |year=1977 |page=32 |isbn=978-0-521-29135-4 |oclc= }}</ref> There are both similarities and differences between the concept of God as portrayed in the Qur'an and the Hebrew Bible.<ref name="Peters1"/> It has also been applied to certain living human beings as personifications of the term and concept.<ref>[http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm Nation of Islam – personification of Allah as Detroit peddler W D Fard]</ref><ref>[http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_3290.shtml "A history of Clarence 13X and the Five Percenters", referring to Clarence Smith as Allah]</ref>

[[Unicode]] has a codepoint reserved for ''Allāh'', {{lang|ar|ﷲ}} = U+FDF2.<ref name="Uni">[http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UFB50.pdf ''Unicode Standard 5.0'', p.479,492]</ref> Many Arabic type fonts feature special [[typographic ligature|ligatures]] for Allah.<ref name="Typ1">
* [http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/ArabicFonts.html Arabic fonts and Mac OS X]
* [http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/ArabicProgsx.html Programs for Arabic in Mac OS X]</ref>

==Usage in Arabic==
===Pre-Islamic Arabia===
In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.<ref>See Qur'an {{cite quran|13|16|style=nosup|expand=no}} ; {{cite quran|29|61–63|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|31|25|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|39|38|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref>
Allah was not considered the sole divinity; however, Allah was considered the creator of the world and the giver of rain. The notion of the term may have been vague in the Meccan religion.<ref name="EoI"/> Allah was associated with companions, whom pre-Islamic Arabs considered as subordinate deities. Meccans held that a kind of [[kinship]] existed between Allah and the [[Genie|jinn]].<ref>See Qur'an {{cite quran|37|158|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref> Allah was thought to have had sons<ref>See Qur'an ({{cite quran|6|100|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref> and that the local deities of [[al-‘Uzzá|{{transl|ar|DIN|al-ʿUzzā}}]], [[Manāt]] and [[al-Lāt]] were His daughters.<ref>See Qur'an ({{cite quran|53|19–22|style=nosup|expand=no}} ; {{cite quran|16|57|style=nosup|expand=no}} ; {{cite quran|37|149|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref> The Meccans possibly associated angels with Allah.<ref>See Qur'an ({{cite quran|53|26–27|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref><ref name="GodEoQ"/> Allah was invoked in times of distress.<ref name="GodEoQ">Gerhard Böwering, ''God and his Attributes'', Encyclopedia of the Qur'an</ref><ref>See Qur'an {{cite quran|6|109|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|10|22|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|16|38|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|29|65|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref> [[Abd Allah ibn Abd al Muttalib|Muhammad's father]]'s name was {{transl|ar|DIN|ʿAbd-Allāh}} meaning ''"the slave of Allāh".<ref name="GodEoQ"/>

===Islam===
{{main|God in Islam}}
{{see also|Names of God in the Qur'an}}
[[File:Allahmedal.jpg|thumb|Medallion showing 'Allah' in [[Hagia Sophia]], [[Istanbul]], Turkey.]]
According to Islamic belief, Allah is the proper name of God,<ref name="EoQ">Böwering, Gerhard, ''God and His Attributes'', Encyclopaedia of the Qurʼān, Brill, 2007.</ref> and humble submission to His Will, Divine Ordinances and Commandments is the pivot of the Muslim faith.<ref name="Britannica"/> "He is the only God, creator of the universe, and the judge of humankind."<ref name="Britannica">Britannica Concise Encyclopedia, ''Allah''</ref><ref name="EncMMENA"/> "He is unique (''{{transl|ar|DIN|wāḥid}}'') and inherently one (''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾaḥad}}''), all-merciful and omnipotent."<ref name="Britannica"/> The Qur'an declares "the reality of Allah, His inaccessible mystery, His various names, and His actions on behalf of His creatures."<ref name="Britannica"/>
[[File:Dcp7323-Edirne-Eski Camii Allah.jpg|thumb|150px|Allah script outside [[Eski Cami]] (The Old Mosque) in [[Edirne]], Turkey.]]
In Islamic tradition, there are [[99 Names of God]] (''{{transl|ar|DIN|al-ʾasmāʾ al-ḥusnā}}'' lit. meaning: "The best names") each of which evoke a distinct characteristic of Allah.<ref name="EncMMENA"/><ref name="Ben">{{cite book |last=Bentley |first=David |title=The 99 Beautiful Names for God for All the People of the Book |publisher=William Carey Library |year=1999 |month=September |isbn=978-0-87808-299-5 }}</ref> All these names refer to Allah, the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name.<ref name="Tao-Islam"/> Among the 99 names of God, the most famous and most frequent of these names are "the Merciful" (''[[Rahman (name)|ar-raḥmān]]'') and "the Compassionate" (''{{transl|ar|DIN|al-raḥīm}}'').<ref name="EncMMENA"/><ref name="Ben"/>

Most Muslims use the untranslated Arabic phrase ''[[Insha'Allah|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾinšāʾ Allāh}}]]'' (meaning "God willing") after references to future events.<ref>Gary S. Gregg, ''The Middle East: A Cultural Psychology'', Oxford University Press, p.30</ref> Muslim discursive piety encourages beginning things with the invocation of ''[[Basmala|{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llāh}}]]'' (meaning "In the name of God").<ref>Carolyn Fluehr-Lobban, ''Islamic Society in Practice'', University Press of Florida, p.24</ref>

There are certain phrases in praise of God that are favored by Muslims, including "[[Subhan'allah|Subhan-Allah]]" (Holiness be to God), "[[Alhamdulillah]]" (Praise be to God), ''[[Shahada|{{transl|ar|DIN|lā ʾilāha ʾilla-llāh}}]]'' (There is no deity but God) and "[[Takbir|Allāhu Akbar]]" (God is great) as a devotional exercise of remembering God ([[zikr]]).<ref>M. Mukarram Ahmed, Muzaffar Husain Syed, ''Encyclopaedia of Islam'',Anmol Publications PVT. LTD, p.144</ref> In a [[Sufi]] practice known as ''zikr Allah'' (lit. remembrance of God), the Sufi repeats and contemplates on the name ''Allah'' or other divine names while controlling his or her breath.<ref>Carl W. Ernst, Bruce B. Lawrence,'' Sufi Martyrs of Love: The Chishti Order in South Asia and Beyond'', Macmillan, p.29</ref>

Some scholars{{Who|date=December 2008}} have suggested that Muhammad used the term Allah in addressing both pagan Arabs and Jews or Christians in order to establish a common ground for the understanding of the name for God, a claim Gerhard Böwering says is doubtful.<ref name="EoQ"/> According to Böwering, in contrast with Pre-Islamic Arabian [[polytheism]], God in Islam does not have associates and companions nor is there any kinship between God and jinn.<ref name="EoQ"/> Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs believed in a blind, powerful, inexorable and insensible fate over which man had no control. This was replaced with the Islamic notion of a powerful but provident and merciful God.<ref>Allah, ''[[Encyclopædia Britannica]]''</ref>

According to [[Francis Edwards Peters]], "The [[Qur'an]] insists, Muslims believe, and historians affirm that [[Muhammad]] and his followers worship the same God as the Jews ({{cite quran|29|46|style=nosup|expand=no}}). The Koran's Allah is the same Creator God who covenanted with [[Abraham]]". Peters states that the Qur'an portrays Allah as both more powerful and more remote than Yahweh, and as a universal deity, unlike Yahweh who closely follows [[Israel]]ites.<ref name="Peters1">F.E. Peters, ''Islam'', p.4, Princeton University Press, 2003</ref>

===Christianity===
The [[Aramaic]] word for "God" in the language of [[Assyrian Christians]] is ''{{Unicode|ʼĔlāhā}}'', or ''[[Alaha]]''. [[Arabic language|Arabic]]-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".<ref name="Columbia"/> The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.<ref name="Cambridge"/> (Even the Arabic-descended [[Maltese language]] of [[Malta]], whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses ''Alla'' for 'God'.) Arab Christians for example use terms ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh al-ʾab}}'' ({{lang|ar|الله الأب}}) meaning [[God the Father]], ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh al-ibn}}'' ({{lang|ar|الله الابن}}) mean [[Son of God|God the Son]], and ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh ar-rūḥ al-quds}}'' ({{lang|ar|الله الروح القدس}}) meaning [[Holy Spirit|God the Holy Spirit]] (See [[God in Christianity]] for the Christian concept of God).

[[Arab Christian]]s have used two forms of invocations that were [[affix]]ed to the beginning of their written works. They adopted the Muslim ''{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llah}}'', and also created their own Trinitized ''{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llah}}'' as early as the eight century CE.<ref name="Thomas"/> The Muslim ''{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llah}}'' reads: "In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful." The Trinitized ''{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llah}}'' reads: "In the name of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, One God." The [[Syria]]c, [[Latin]] and [[Greek language|Greek]] invocations do not have the words "One God" at the end. This addition was made to emphasize the [[monotheism|monotheistic]] aspect of Trinitian belief and also to make it more palatable to Muslims.<ref name="Thomas">Thomas E. Burman, ''Religious Polemic and the Intellectual History of the Mozarabs'', [[Brill Publishers|Brill]], 1994, p.103</ref>

According to [[Marshall Hodgson]], it seems that in the pre-Islamic times, some Arab Christians made pilgrimage to the Kaaba, a pagan temple at that time, honoring Allah there as God the Creator.<ref>Marshall G. S. Hodgson, ''The Venture of Islam: Conscience and History in a World Civilization'', [[University of Chicago Press]], p.156</ref>

===Judaism===
{{main|Mizrahi Jews|Names of God in Judaism}}

As [[Hebrew]] and [[Arabic]] are closely related [[Semitic]] languages, it is commonly accepted that ''Allah'' (root, ''[[ʾilāh|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾilāh}}]]'') and the Biblical ''[[Elohim]]'' are cognate derivations of same origin, as in ''[[Eloah]]'' a Hebrew word which is used (e.g. in the [[Book of Job]]) to mean "(the) God" and also "god or gods" as in the case of ''Elohim'', ultimately deriving from the root ''El'', "strong", possibly genericized from [[El (deity)]], as in the [[Ugaritic]] '''lhm'' "children of El" (the ancient Near Eastern creator god in pre-Abrahamic tradition).

In Jewish scripture [[Elohim]] is used as a descriptive title for the God of the scriptures whose name is [[YHWH]], as well as for pagan gods.

==As a loanword==
===English and other European languages===
{{Islam}}
The history of the word "Allāh" in English was probably influenced by the study of [[comparative religion]] in 19th century; for example, [[Thomas Carlyle]] (1840) sometimes used the term Allah but without any implication that Allah was anything different from God. However, in his biography of Muhammad (1934), [[Tor Andræ]] always used the term Allah, though he allows that this 'conception of God' seems to imply that it is different from that of the Jewish and Christian theologies.<ref name="Watt45">William Montgomery Watt, ''Islam and Christianity today: A Contribution to Dialogue'', [[Routledge]], 1983, p.45</ref>

Languages which may not commonly use the term ''Allah'' to denote God may still contain popular expressions which use the word. For example, because of the centuries long [[Al-Andalus|Muslim presence in the Iberian Peninsula]], the word ojalá in the Spanish language and oxalá in the [[Portuguese language]] exist today, borrowed from [[Arabic]] (Arabic: إن شاء الله). This word literally means "God willing" (in the sense of "I hope so").<ref>Islam in Luce López Baralt, ''Spanish Literature: From the Middle Ages to the Present'', Brill, 1992, p.25</ref> The German poet [[Siegfried August Mahlmann|Mahlmann]] used the form "Allah" as the title of a poem about the the ultimate deity, though it is unclear how much Islamic thought he intended to convey.

Some Muslims leave the name "Allāh" untranslated in English.<ref>F. E. Peters, ''The Monotheists: Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Conflict and Competition'', [[Princeton University Press]], p.12</ref>

=== Malaysian and Indonesian language===
Christians in Indonesia and Malaysia also use ''Allah'' to refer to God in the [[Malaysian language]] and [[Indonesian language]] (both languages forms of the [[Malay language]] which is referred to as ''Bahasa Melayu'').

Mainstream Bible translations in both languages use ''Allah'' as the translation of Hebrew [[Elohim]] (translated in English Bibles as "God").<ref>Example: [http://alkitab.sabda.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=22&verse=32&search=allah&scope=all&exact=off Usage of the word "Allah" from Matthew 22:32 in Indonesian bible versions (parallel view) as old as 1733]</ref> This goes back to early translation work by [[Francis Xavier]] in the 16th century.<ref>The Indonesian Language: Its History and Role in Modern Society Sneddon, James M.; University of New South Wales Press; 2004</ref><ref>The History of Christianity in India from the Commencement of the Christian Era: Hough, James; Adamant Media Corporation; 2001</ref> The first dictionary of Dutch-Malay by [[Albert Cornelius Ruyl|A.C. Ruyl]], Justus Heurnius, and Caspar Wiltens in 1650 recorded "Allah" as the translation of the Dutch word "Godt".<ref>[http://books.google.co.id/books?id=3GcTAAAAQAAJ&v=onepage&q=allah&f=false Justus Heurnius, Albert Ruyl, Caspar Wiltens. "Vocabularium ofte Woordenboeck nae ordre van den alphabeth, in 't Duytsch en Maleys". 1650:65]</ref> Ruyl also translated [[Gospel of Matthew|Matthew]] in 1612 to Malay language (first Bible translation to non-European language, only a year after [[King James Version]] was published<ref>Barton, John (2002–12). The Biblical World, Oxford, UK: Routledge. ISBN 978-0-415-27574-3.</ref><ref>North, Eric McCoy; Eugene Albert Nida ((2nd Edition) 1972). The Book of a Thousand Tongues, London: United Bible Societies.</ref>), which was printed in the Netherlands in 1629. Then he translated [[Gospel of Mark|Mark]] which was published in 1638.<ref>{{Id icon}} [http://sejarah.sabda.org/sejarah/bio_ruyl.htm Biography of Ruyl]</ref><ref>[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/514364/Albert-Cornelius-Ruyl Encyclopædia Britannica: Albert Cornelius Ruyl]</ref>

The [[government of Malaysia]] in 2007 outlawed usage of the term ''Allah'' in any other but Muslim contexts, but the High Court in 2009 revoked the law, ruling that it was unconstitutional. While ''Allah'' had been used for the Christian God in Malay for more than four centuries, the contemporary controversy was triggered by usage of ''Allah'' by the Roman Catholic newspaper ''[[The Herald (Malaysian Catholic Weekly)|The Herald]]''. The government has in turn appealed the court ruling, and the High Court has suspended implementation of its verdict until the appeal is heard.

===In other scripts and languages===
''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' in other languages with Arabic script is spelled in the same way. This includes [[Urdu]], [[Persian language|Persian]]/[[Dari (Eastern Persian)|Dari]], [[Uyghur language|Uyghur]] among others.
* {{lang-bn|আল্লাহ}} ''Allah''
* {{lang-bs|Allah}}
* {{lang-zh|link=no|阿拉}} ''Ālā'', {{lang|zh|安拉}} ''Ānlā''; {{lang|zh|真主}} ''Zhēnzhǔ'' (semantic translation)
* {{lang-el|Αλλάχ}} ''Allách'', {{lang|el|Θεός}} ''Theós'' (God)
* {{lang-he|אללה}} ''Allah''
* {{lang-hi|अल्लाह}} ''Allāh''
* {{lang-ml|അള്ളാഹ്}} ''Aḷaḷah''
* {{lang-ja|アラー}} ''Alā'', {{lang|ja|アッラー}} ''Allāh'', {{lang|ja|アッラーフ}} ''Allāf''
* {{lang-mt|Alla}}
* {{lang-ko|알라}} ''Alla''
* {{lang-pl|Allah}}, also archaic ''{{lang|pl|Allach}}'' or ''{{lang|pl|Ałłach}}''
* Russian, [[Ukrainian language|Ukrainian]], {{lang-bg|Алла́х}} ''Allakh''
* [[Serbian language|Serbian]], [[Belarusian language|Belarusian]], {{lang-mk|Алах}} ''Alah''
* Spanish, {{lang-pt|Alá}}
* {{lang-th|อัลลอฮ์}} ''Anláw''
* Punjabi ([[Gurmukhi script|Gurmukhi]]): ਅੱਲਾਹ ''Allāh'' (archaic ਅਲਹੁ in Sikh scripture)

==Typography==
The word ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' is always written without an [[aleph|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}]] to spell the ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ā}}'' vowel. This is because the spelling was settled before Arabic spelling started habitually using ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'' to spell ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ā}}''. However, in vocalized spelling, a small diacritic ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'' is added on top of the ''[[shadda|{{transl|ar|DIN|šaddah}}]]'' to indicate the pronunciation.

One exception may be in the pre-Islamic [[History of the Arabic alphabet#Pre-Islamic Arabic inscriptions|Zabad inscription]],<ref>{{cite web
| title=Zebed Inscription: A Pre-Islamic Trilingual Inscription In Greek, Syriac & Arabic From 512 CE
| url=http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/zebed.html
| publisher=Islamic Awareness
| date=17 March 2005
}}
</ref> where it ends with an ambiguous sign that may be a lone-standing ''h'' with a lengthened start, or may be a non-standard conjoined ''{{transl|ar|DIN|l-h}}'':-
* {{lang|ar| الاه }}: This reading would be ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' spelled phonetically with ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'' for the ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ā}}''.
* {{lang|ar| الإله }}: This reading would be ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Al-ʾilāh}}'' = "the god" (an older form, without contraction), by older spelling practice without ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'' for ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ā}}''.

===Unicode===
[[Unicode]] has a codepoint reserved for ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'', {{script/Arabic|ﷲ}} = U+FDF2.
This character according to the official Unicode specification is a ligature of ''alif-lām-lām-shadda-(superscript alif)-hā'' (اللّٰه U+0627 U+0644 U+0644 U+0651 U+0670 U+0647).
[[File:Allah.svg|thumb|right|200px|An example of ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' written in simple [[Arabic calligraphy]].]]
There is, however some confusion arising from the fact that Arabic typography usually features a ''{{transl|ar|DIN|llāh}}'' glyph without the preceding ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'', which only occurs phrase-initially (or with {{transl|ar|DIN|''[[hamza]]tu l-waṣl''}} {{script|Arab|ٱ}} in Qur'anic orthography). Consequently, the majority of [[Arabic Unicode]] fonts do not conform with the specification and have a glyph without the alif at this position (e.g. those provided by [http://www.linotype.com/2517/arabicfonts.html Linotype], the great majority of those licensed to or developed by [http://www.microsoft.com/typography/links/FontPortal.aspx?PID=8 Microsoft], those of [http://www.arabeyes.org Arabeyes.org], [[SIL International|SIL]]'s [http://scripts.sil.org/ArabicFonts Lateef] and the fonts of [http://www.crulp.org CRULP] developed in Pakistan),
while others have the prescribed form with alif (e.g. [http://scripts.sil.org/ArabicFonts SIL's Scheherazade], [http://www.tdc.org/news/2006Results/AdobeArabic.html Adobe Arabic] distributed with the Middle-Eastern version
of the [http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readermain.html Adobe Reader 7], [[Arial Unicode MS]], and [http://sakkal.com/type/typesetting.html Arabic Typesetting], distributed with [http://www.microsoft.com/typography/VOLT.mspx VOLT] and with [http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/language/proofingtools.mspx Microsoft Office Proofing Tools 2003]).

The calligraphic variant of the word used as the [[Coat of arms of Iran]] is encoded in Unicode, in the [[Miscellaneous Symbols]] range, at codepoint U+262B ({{unicode|☫}}).

==See also==
* [[Abdullah (name)]]
* [[Ilah|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾIlāh}}]]
* [[Names of God]]
* [[Tawhid|{{transl|ar|DIN|Tawḥīd}}]]
* [[Dhikr|{{transl|ar|DIN|Ḏikr}}]]
* [[Termagant]]
* [[Five Pillars of Islam]]
* [[Kaaba|{{transl|ar|DIN|Kaʿbah}}]]
* [[Prophets of Islam]]
* [[El (deity)]]

==Notes==
{{Reflist|2}}

==References==
* The Unicode Consortium, ''Unicode Standard 5.0'', Addison-Wesley, 2006, ISBN 978-0-321-48091-0, [http://unicode.org/book/aboutbook.html About the Unicode Standard Version 5.0 Book]

==External links==
{{Wikisource}}
{{wikiquote}}
{{Commons and category|Allah}}
* [http://www.searchtruth.com/Allah/99Names.php Names of Allah with meaning on website, Flash, and Mobile phone Software.]
* [http://www.sultan.org/articles/god.html Concept of God (Allah) in Islam]
* [http://www.islam-info.ch/en/Who_is_Allah.htm The Concept of Allāh according to the Qur'an] by Abdul Mannan Omar
* [http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm Allah, the unique name of God]

; Typography
* [http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/ArabicFonts.html Arabic fonts and Mac OS X]
* [http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/ArabicProgsx.html Programs for Arabic in Mac OS X]

{{Islam topics|state=collapsed}}

[[Category:Allah| ]]
[[Category:Arabic loanwords]]
[[Category:Islamic theology]]
[[Category:Names of God in Islam]]
[[Category:God]]
[[Category:Creator deities]]

[[ace:Allah]]
[[af:Allah]]
[[am:አላህ]]
[[ar:الله (إسلام)]]
[[ast:Alá]]
[[av:Аллагь]]
[[az:Allah]]
[[bn:আল্লাহ]]
[[ba:Аллаһ]]
[[be:Алах]]
[[be-x-old:Паняцьце Бога ў ісламе]]
[[bg:Аллах]]
[[bs:Allah]]
[[br:Allah]]
[[ca:Al·là]]
[[cs:Alláh]]
[[cy:Al-lâh]]
[[da:Allah]]
[[de:Allah]]
[[dv:ﷲ]]
[[et:Allah]]
[[el:Αλλάχ]]
[[es:Alá]]
[[eo:Alaho]]
[[eu:Allah]]
[[fa:الله]]
[[fr:Allah]]
[[gl:Alá]]
[[ko:알라]]
[[hy:Ալլահ]]
[[hi:अल्लाह]]
[[hr:Alah]]
[[id:Allah]]
[[ia:Allah]]
[[is:Allah]]
[[it:Allah]]
[[he:אללה]]
[[jv:Allah]]
[[kn:ಅಲ್ಲಾಹ]]
[[ka:ალაჰი]]
[[kk:Аллах]]
[[sw:Allah]]
[[ku:Xweda]]
[[mrj:Аллах]]
[[lv:Allāhs]]
[[lb:Allah]]
[[lt:Alachas]]
[[hu:Allah]]
[[mk:Алах]]
[[ml:അല്ലാഹു]]
[[mt:Alla]]
[[ms:Allah]]
[[nl:Allah]]
[[nds-nl:Allah]]
[[ja:アッラーフ]]
[[ce:Аллахl]]
[[no:Allah]]
[[nn:Allah]]
[[mhr:Аллах]]
[[uz:Alloh]]
[[pnb:الله]]
[[pl:Allah]]
[[pt:Alá]]
[[ro:Allah]]
[[ru:Аллах]]
[[sah:Аллах]]
[[sq:Allahu]]
[[scn:Allah]]
[[simple:Allah]]
[[sd:الله]]
[[ss:Allah]]
[[sk:Alah]]
[[sl:Alah]]
[[so:Allaah]]
[[ckb:خوا لە ئیسلامدا]]
[[sr:Алах]]
[[sh:Allah]]
[[su:Alloh]]
[[fi:Allah]]
[[sv:Allah]]
[[ta:அல்லா]]
[[tt:Allah]]
[[th:อัลลอฮ์]]
[[tg:Оллоҳ]]
[[tr:Allah]]
[[uk:Аллах]]
[[ur:اللہ]]
[[vi:Allah]]
[[yo:Allah]]
[[zh:安拉]]

Allah

2012-04-22T04:21:00Z

Parthian Scribe: they primarily refer to him as "God" in most english texts

{{Use dmy dates|date=April 2012}}
{{about|the Arabic word "Allah"|the Islamic view of God|God in Islam}}
{{Other uses}}

{{good article}}
{{Pp-semi-indef}}{{Pp-move-indef}}
[[File:Allah-eser-green.png|thumb|right|Name of ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' after the 17th century Ottoman calligrapher [[Hâfız Osman]]]]
'''Allah''' ({{IPAc-en|lang|pron|ˈ|æ|l|ə}} or {{IPAc-en|ˈ|ɑː|l|ə}}; {{lang-ar|الله}} {{transl|ar|DIN|''Allāh''}}, {{IPA-ar|ʔɑlˈlɑː|IPA|Ar-allah.ogg}}, {{IPA-ar|ʔalˤˈlˤɑː|}}) is a word for '''God''' used in the context of Islam.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/allah |title=Allah |author=Merriam-Webster |publisher=Merriam-Webster |accessdate=25 February 2012}}</ref> In [[Arabic language|Arabic]], the word means simply "the God".<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/faithgod.html |title=God |work=Islam: Empire of Faith |publisher=PBS|accessdate=18 December 2010}}</ref><ref>"Islam and Christianity", ''Encyclopedia of Christianity'' (2001): Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews also refer to God as ''Allāh''.</ref><ref>{{Cite encyclopedia | title=Allah | encyclopedia=Encyclopaedia of Islam Online | author=L. Gardet | accessdate=2 May 2007}}</ref> It is used primarily by Muslims, and often, albeit not exclusively, used by [[Bahá'í]]s and [[Arabic language|Arabic-speaking]] [[Eastern Catholic Churches|Eastern Catholic Christians]], [[Malta|Maltese]] Roman Catholics, [[Eastern Orthodox|Eastern Orthodox Christians]], [[Mizrahi Jews]] and [[Sikhs]].<ref name="Britannica">
"Allah." [[Encyclopædia Britannica]]. 2007. Encyclopædia Britannica</ref><ref name="EncMMENA">Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa, ''Allah''</ref><ref name="Columbia">[[Columbia Encyclopedia]], ''Allah''</ref> It is related to ''{{Unicode|ʼĔlāhā}}'' in [[Aramaic language|Aramaic]].

==Etymology==
[[File:Arabic components (letters) in the word Allah.svg|thumb|right|240px| The Arabic components that build-up the word "Allah": 1. [[Aleph#Arabic|alif]] 2. [[Hamza#Hamzat waṣl|hamzat waṣl]] (همزة وصل‎‎) 3. [[Lamedh#Arabic lām|lām]] 4. lām 5. [[shadda]] (شدة‎) 6. [[dagger alif]] (ألف خنجرية‎‎) 7. [[He (letter)#Arabic hāʾ|hāʾ]]]]
The term ''Allāh'' is derived from a [[Synalepha|contraction]] of the Arabic definite article ''[[al-]]'' "the" and ''[[ʾilāh|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾilāh}}]]'' "deity, god" to ''{{transl|ar|DIN|al-lāh}}'' meaning "the [sole] deity, God" ({{lang|grc|ὁ θεὸς μόνος}}, ''ho theos monos'').<ref name="EoI">L. Gardet, ''Allah'', Encyclopaedia of Islam</ref>
[[Cognates]] of the name "Allāh" exist in other [[Semitic languages]], including [[Hebrew language|Hebrew]] and [[Aramaic language|Aramaic]].<ref name=autogenerated1>Columbia Encyclopaedia says: Derived from an old Semitic root referring to the Divine and used in the Canaanite ''[[El (deity)|El]]'', the Mesopotamian ''[[Ilah|ilu]]'', and the biblical ''[[Elohim]]'' and ''[[Eloah]]'', the word Allah is used by all Arabic-speaking Muslims, Christians, Jews, and other monotheists.</ref> [[Biblical Hebrew]] mostly uses the plural form (but functional singular) ''[[Elohim]]''. The corresponding [[Aramaic]] form is ''{{Unicode|ʼĔlāhā}}'' {{lang|arc|ܐܠܗܐ}} in [[Biblical Aramaic]] and ''[[Alaha|{{Unicode|ʼAlâhâ}}]]'' {{lang|arc|ܐܲܠܵܗܵܐ}} in [[Syriac language|Syriac]] as used by the [[Assyrian Christians|Assyrian Church]], both meaning simply "God".<ref name="cal">[http://cal1.cn.huc.edu The Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon] – Entry for ''{{Unicode|ʼlh}}''</ref> In the [[Sikh]] scriptures, [[Guru Granth Sahib]], the term ''Allah'' ({{lang-pa|ਅਲਹੁ}}) is used 46 times respectively.

The name was previously used by [[Arabian mythology|pagan]] [[Mecca]]ns as a reference to a [[creator deity]], possibly the supreme deity in [[pre-Islamic Arabia]].<ref name=autogenerated2>L. Gardet, "Allah", ''Encyclopedia of Islam''</ref><ref name="smith">{{cite encyclopedia |last= Smith |first= Peter |encyclopedia= A concise encyclopedia of the Bahá'í Faith |title= prayer |year= 2000 |publisher=Oneworld Publications |location= Oxford |isbn= 978-1-85168-184-6 |pages= 274–275}}</ref>
The concepts associated with the term ''Allah'' (as a deity) differ among religious traditions. In pre-Islamic Arabia amongst pagan Arabs, ''Allah'' was not considered the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters–a concept that was deleted under the process of [[Islamization]]. In Islam, the name ''Allah'' is the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name, and all other divine names are believed to refer back to Allah.<ref name="Tao-Islam">
{{Cite book
| last =Murata
| first =Sachiko
| author-link =
| last2 =
| first2 =
| author2-link =
| publication-date =
| year =1992
| title =The Tao of Islam : a sourcebook on gender relationships in Islamic thought
| edition =
| series =
| publication-place =Albany NY USA
| place =
| publisher=SUNY
| id =
| isbn =978-0-7914-0914-5
| oclc =
| url =
}}</ref>
''Allah'' is unique, the only Deity, [[Creator deity|creator of the universe]] and omnipotent.<ref name="Britannica"/><ref name="EncMMENA"/> Arab Christians today use terms such as ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh al-ʾAb}}'' ({{lang|ar|الله الأب}}, "God the Father") to distinguish their usage from Muslim usage.<ref name="Cambridge">{{cite book |author=Lewis, Bernard; Holt, P. M.; Holt, Peter R.; Lambton, Ann Katherine Swynford |title=The Cambridge history of Islam |publisher=University Press |location=Cambridge, Eng |year=1977 |page=32 |isbn=978-0-521-29135-4 |oclc= }}</ref> There are both similarities and differences between the concept of God as portrayed in the Qur'an and the Hebrew Bible.<ref name="Peters1"/> It has also been applied to certain living human beings as personifications of the term and concept.<ref>[http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-nation-of-islam.htm Nation of Islam – personification of Allah as Detroit peddler W D Fard]</ref><ref>[http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/article_3290.shtml "A history of Clarence 13X and the Five Percenters", referring to Clarence Smith as Allah]</ref>

[[Unicode]] has a codepoint reserved for ''Allāh'', {{lang|ar|ﷲ}} = U+FDF2.<ref name="Uni">[http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/UFB50.pdf ''Unicode Standard 5.0'', p.479,492]</ref> Many Arabic type fonts feature special [[typographic ligature|ligatures]] for Allah.<ref name="Typ1">
* [http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/ArabicFonts.html Arabic fonts and Mac OS X]
* [http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/ArabicProgsx.html Programs for Arabic in Mac OS X]</ref>

==Usage in Arabic==
===Pre-Islamic Arabia===
In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.<ref>See Qur'an {{cite quran|13|16|style=nosup|expand=no}} ; {{cite quran|29|61–63|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|31|25|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|39|38|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref>
Allah was not considered the sole divinity; however, Allah was considered the creator of the world and the giver of rain. The notion of the term may have been vague in the Meccan religion.<ref name="EoI"/> Allah was associated with companions, whom pre-Islamic Arabs considered as subordinate deities. Meccans held that a kind of [[kinship]] existed between Allah and the [[Genie|jinn]].<ref>See Qur'an {{cite quran|37|158|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref> Allah was thought to have had sons<ref>See Qur'an ({{cite quran|6|100|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref> and that the local deities of [[al-‘Uzzá|{{transl|ar|DIN|al-ʿUzzā}}]], [[Manāt]] and [[al-Lāt]] were His daughters.<ref>See Qur'an ({{cite quran|53|19–22|style=nosup|expand=no}} ; {{cite quran|16|57|style=nosup|expand=no}} ; {{cite quran|37|149|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref> The Meccans possibly associated angels with Allah.<ref>See Qur'an ({{cite quran|53|26–27|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref><ref name="GodEoQ"/> Allah was invoked in times of distress.<ref name="GodEoQ">Gerhard Böwering, ''God and his Attributes'', Encyclopedia of the Qur'an</ref><ref>See Qur'an {{cite quran|6|109|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|10|22|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|16|38|style=nosup|expand=no}}; {{cite quran|29|65|style=nosup|expand=no}})</ref> [[Abd Allah ibn Abd al Muttalib|Muhammad's father]]'s name was {{transl|ar|DIN|ʿAbd-Allāh}} meaning ''"the slave of Allāh".<ref name="GodEoQ"/>

===Islam===
{{main|God in Islam}}
{{see also|Names of God in the Qur'an}}
[[File:Allahmedal.jpg|thumb|Medallion showing 'Allah' in [[Hagia Sophia]], [[Istanbul]], Turkey.]]
According to Islamic belief, Allah is the proper name of God,<ref name="EoQ">Böwering, Gerhard, ''God and His Attributes'', Encyclopaedia of the Qurʼān, Brill, 2007.</ref> and humble submission to His Will, Divine Ordinances and Commandments is the pivot of the Muslim faith.<ref name="Britannica"/> "He is the only God, creator of the universe, and the judge of humankind."<ref name="Britannica">Britannica Concise Encyclopedia, ''Allah''</ref><ref name="EncMMENA"/> "He is unique (''{{transl|ar|DIN|wāḥid}}'') and inherently one (''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾaḥad}}''), all-merciful and omnipotent."<ref name="Britannica"/> The Qur'an declares "the reality of Allah, His inaccessible mystery, His various names, and His actions on behalf of His creatures."<ref name="Britannica"/>
[[File:Dcp7323-Edirne-Eski Camii Allah.jpg|thumb|150px|Allah script outside [[Eski Cami]] (The Old Mosque) in [[Edirne]], Turkey.]]
In Islamic tradition, there are [[99 Names of God]] (''{{transl|ar|DIN|al-ʾasmāʾ al-ḥusnā}}'' lit. meaning: "The best names") each of which evoke a distinct characteristic of Allah.<ref name="EncMMENA"/><ref name="Ben">{{cite book |last=Bentley |first=David |title=The 99 Beautiful Names for God for All the People of the Book |publisher=William Carey Library |year=1999 |month=September |isbn=978-0-87808-299-5 }}</ref> All these names refer to Allah, the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name.<ref name="Tao-Islam"/> Among the 99 names of God, the most famous and most frequent of these names are "the Merciful" (''[[Rahman (name)|ar-raḥmān]]'') and "the Compassionate" (''{{transl|ar|DIN|al-raḥīm}}'').<ref name="EncMMENA"/><ref name="Ben"/>

Most Muslims use the untranslated Arabic phrase ''[[Insha'Allah|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾinšāʾ Allāh}}]]'' (meaning "God willing") after references to future events.<ref>Gary S. Gregg, ''The Middle East: A Cultural Psychology'', Oxford University Press, p.30</ref> Muslim discursive piety encourages beginning things with the invocation of ''[[Basmala|{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llāh}}]]'' (meaning "In the name of God").<ref>Carolyn Fluehr-Lobban, ''Islamic Society in Practice'', University Press of Florida, p.24</ref>

There are certain phrases in praise of God that are favored by Muslims, including "[[Subhan'allah|Subhan-Allah]]" (Holiness be to God), "[[Alhamdulillah]]" (Praise be to God), ''[[Shahada|{{transl|ar|DIN|lā ʾilāha ʾilla-llāh}}]]'' (There is no deity but God) and "[[Takbir|Allāhu Akbar]]" (God is great) as a devotional exercise of remembering God ([[zikr]]).<ref>M. Mukarram Ahmed, Muzaffar Husain Syed, ''Encyclopaedia of Islam'',Anmol Publications PVT. LTD, p.144</ref> In a [[Sufi]] practice known as ''zikr Allah'' (lit. remembrance of God), the Sufi repeats and contemplates on the name ''Allah'' or other divine names while controlling his or her breath.<ref>Carl W. Ernst, Bruce B. Lawrence,'' Sufi Martyrs of Love: The Chishti Order in South Asia and Beyond'', Macmillan, p.29</ref>

Some scholars{{Who|date=December 2008}} have suggested that Muhammad used the term Allah in addressing both pagan Arabs and Jews or Christians in order to establish a common ground for the understanding of the name for God, a claim Gerhard Böwering says is doubtful.<ref name="EoQ"/> According to Böwering, in contrast with Pre-Islamic Arabian [[polytheism]], God in Islam does not have associates and companions nor is there any kinship between God and jinn.<ref name="EoQ"/> Pre-Islamic pagan Arabs believed in a blind, powerful, inexorable and insensible fate over which man had no control. This was replaced with the Islamic notion of a powerful but provident and merciful God.<ref>Allah, ''[[Encyclopædia Britannica]]''</ref>

According to [[Francis Edwards Peters]], "The [[Qur'an]] insists, Muslims believe, and historians affirm that [[Muhammad]] and his followers worship the same God as the Jews ({{cite quran|29|46|style=nosup|expand=no}}). The Koran's Allah is the same Creator God who covenanted with [[Abraham]]". Peters states that the Qur'an portrays Allah as both more powerful and more remote than Yahweh, and as a universal deity, unlike Yahweh who closely follows [[Israel]]ites.<ref name="Peters1">F.E. Peters, ''Islam'', p.4, Princeton University Press, 2003</ref>

===Christianity===
The [[Aramaic]] word for "God" in the language of [[Assyrian Christians]] is ''{{Unicode|ʼĔlāhā}}'', or ''[[Alaha]]''. [[Arabic language|Arabic]]-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".<ref name="Columbia"/> The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.<ref name="Cambridge"/> (Even the Arabic-descended [[Maltese language]] of [[Malta]], whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses ''Alla'' for 'God'.) Arab Christians for example use terms ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh al-ʾab}}'' ({{lang|ar|الله الأب}}) meaning [[God the Father]], ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh al-ibn}}'' ({{lang|ar|الله الابن}}) mean [[Son of God|God the Son]], and ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh ar-rūḥ al-quds}}'' ({{lang|ar|الله الروح القدس}}) meaning [[Holy Spirit|God the Holy Spirit]] (See [[God in Christianity]] for the Christian concept of God).

[[Arab Christian]]s have used two forms of invocations that were [[affix]]ed to the beginning of their written works. They adopted the Muslim ''{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llah}}'', and also created their own Trinitized ''{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llah}}'' as early as the eight century CE.<ref name="Thomas"/> The Muslim ''{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llah}}'' reads: "In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful." The Trinitized ''{{transl|ar|DIN|bismi-llah}}'' reads: "In the name of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, One God." The [[Syria]]c, [[Latin]] and [[Greek language|Greek]] invocations do not have the words "One God" at the end. This addition was made to emphasize the [[monotheism|monotheistic]] aspect of Trinitian belief and also to make it more palatable to Muslims.<ref name="Thomas">Thomas E. Burman, ''Religious Polemic and the Intellectual History of the Mozarabs'', [[Brill Publishers|Brill]], 1994, p.103</ref>

According to [[Marshall Hodgson]], it seems that in the pre-Islamic times, some Arab Christians made pilgrimage to the Kaaba, a pagan temple at that time, honoring Allah there as God the Creator.<ref>Marshall G. S. Hodgson, ''The Venture of Islam: Conscience and History in a World Civilization'', [[University of Chicago Press]], p.156</ref>

===Judaism===
{{main|Mizrahi Jews|Names of God in Judaism}}

As [[Hebrew]] and [[Arabic]] are closely related [[Semitic]] languages, it is commonly accepted that ''Allah'' (root, ''[[ʾilāh|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾilāh}}]]'') and the Biblical ''[[Elohim]]'' are cognate derivations of same origin, as in ''[[Eloah]]'' a Hebrew word which is used (e.g. in the [[Book of Job]]) to mean "(the) God" and also "god or gods" as in the case of ''Elohim'', ultimately deriving from the root ''El'', "strong", possibly genericized from [[El (deity)]], as in the [[Ugaritic]] '''lhm'' "children of El" (the ancient Near Eastern creator god in pre-Abrahamic tradition).

In Jewish scripture [[Elohim]] is used as a descriptive title for the God of the scriptures whose name is [[YHWH]], as well as for pagan gods.

==As a loanword==
===English and other European languages===
{{Islam}}
The history of the word "Allāh" in English was probably influenced by the study of [[comparative religion]] in 19th century; for example, [[Thomas Carlyle]] (1840) sometimes used the term Allah but without any implication that Allah was anything different from God. However, in his biography of Muhammad (1934), [[Tor Andræ]] always used the term Allah, though he allows that this 'conception of God' seems to imply that it is different from that of the Jewish and Christian theologies.<ref name="Watt45">William Montgomery Watt, ''Islam and Christianity today: A Contribution to Dialogue'', [[Routledge]], 1983, p.45</ref>

Languages which may not commonly use the term ''Allah'' to denote God may still contain popular expressions which use the word. For example, because of the centuries long [[Al-Andalus|Muslim presence in the Iberian Peninsula]], the word ojalá in the Spanish language and oxalá in the [[Portuguese language]] exist today, borrowed from [[Arabic]] (Arabic: إن شاء الله). This word literally means "God willing" (in the sense of "I hope so").<ref>Islam in Luce López Baralt, ''Spanish Literature: From the Middle Ages to the Present'', Brill, 1992, p.25</ref> The German poet [[Siegfried August Mahlmann|Mahlmann]] used the form "Allah" as the title of a poem about the the ultimate deity, though it is unclear how much Islamic thought he intended to convey.

Some Muslims leave the name "Allāh" untranslated in English.<ref>F. E. Peters, ''The Monotheists: Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Conflict and Competition'', [[Princeton University Press]], p.12</ref>

=== Malaysian and Indonesian language===
Christians in Indonesia and Malaysia also use ''Allah'' to refer to God in the [[Malaysian language]] and [[Indonesian language]] (both languages forms of the [[Malay language]] which is referred to as ''Bahasa Melayu'').

Mainstream Bible translations in both languages use ''Allah'' as the translation of Hebrew [[Elohim]] (translated in English Bibles as "God").<ref>Example: [http://alkitab.sabda.org/verse.php?book=Mat&chapter=22&verse=32&search=allah&scope=all&exact=off Usage of the word "Allah" from Matthew 22:32 in Indonesian bible versions (parallel view) as old as 1733]</ref> This goes back to early translation work by [[Francis Xavier]] in the 16th century.<ref>The Indonesian Language: Its History and Role in Modern Society Sneddon, James M.; University of New South Wales Press; 2004</ref><ref>The History of Christianity in India from the Commencement of the Christian Era: Hough, James; Adamant Media Corporation; 2001</ref> The first dictionary of Dutch-Malay by [[Albert Cornelius Ruyl|A.C. Ruyl]], Justus Heurnius, and Caspar Wiltens in 1650 recorded "Allah" as the translation of the Dutch word "Godt".<ref>[http://books.google.co.id/books?id=3GcTAAAAQAAJ&v=onepage&q=allah&f=false Justus Heurnius, Albert Ruyl, Caspar Wiltens. "Vocabularium ofte Woordenboeck nae ordre van den alphabeth, in 't Duytsch en Maleys". 1650:65]</ref> Ruyl also translated [[Gospel of Matthew|Matthew]] in 1612 to Malay language (first Bible translation to non-European language, only a year after [[King James Version]] was published<ref>Barton, John (2002–12). The Biblical World, Oxford, UK: Routledge. ISBN 978-0-415-27574-3.</ref><ref>North, Eric McCoy; Eugene Albert Nida ((2nd Edition) 1972). The Book of a Thousand Tongues, London: United Bible Societies.</ref>), which was printed in the Netherlands in 1629. Then he translated [[Gospel of Mark|Mark]] which was published in 1638.<ref>{{Id icon}} [http://sejarah.sabda.org/sejarah/bio_ruyl.htm Biography of Ruyl]</ref><ref>[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/514364/Albert-Cornelius-Ruyl Encyclopædia Britannica: Albert Cornelius Ruyl]</ref>

The [[government of Malaysia]] in 2007 outlawed usage of the term ''Allah'' in any other but Muslim contexts, but the High Court in 2009 revoked the law, ruling that it was unconstitutional. While ''Allah'' had been used for the Christian God in Malay for more than four centuries, the contemporary controversy was triggered by usage of ''Allah'' by the Roman Catholic newspaper ''[[The Herald (Malaysian Catholic Weekly)|The Herald]]''. The government has in turn appealed the court ruling, and the High Court has suspended implementation of its verdict until the appeal is heard.

===In other scripts and languages===
''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' in other languages with Arabic script is spelled in the same way. This includes [[Urdu]], [[Persian language|Persian]]/[[Dari (Eastern Persian)|Dari]], [[Uyghur language|Uyghur]] among others.
* {{lang-bn|আল্লাহ}} ''Allah''
* {{lang-bs|Allah}}
* {{lang-zh|link=no|阿拉}} ''Ālā'', {{lang|zh|安拉}} ''Ānlā''; {{lang|zh|真主}} ''Zhēnzhǔ'' (semantic translation)
* {{lang-el|Αλλάχ}} ''Allách'', {{lang|el|Θεός}} ''Theós'' (God)
* {{lang-he|אללה}} ''Allah''
* {{lang-hi|अल्लाह}} ''Allāh''
* {{lang-ml|അള്ളാഹ്}} ''Aḷaḷah''
* {{lang-ja|アラー}} ''Alā'', {{lang|ja|アッラー}} ''Allāh'', {{lang|ja|アッラーフ}} ''Allāf''
* {{lang-mt|Alla}}
* {{lang-ko|알라}} ''Alla''
* {{lang-pl|Allah}}, also archaic ''{{lang|pl|Allach}}'' or ''{{lang|pl|Ałłach}}''
* Russian, [[Ukrainian language|Ukrainian]], {{lang-bg|Алла́х}} ''Allakh''
* [[Serbian language|Serbian]], [[Belarusian language|Belarusian]], {{lang-mk|Алах}} ''Alah''
* Spanish, {{lang-pt|Alá}}
* {{lang-th|อัลลอฮ์}} ''Anláw''
* Punjabi ([[Gurmukhi script|Gurmukhi]]): ਅੱਲਾਹ ''Allāh'' (archaic ਅਲਹੁ in Sikh scripture)

==Typography==
The word ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' is always written without an [[aleph|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}]] to spell the ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ā}}'' vowel. This is because the spelling was settled before Arabic spelling started habitually using ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'' to spell ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ā}}''. However, in vocalized spelling, a small diacritic ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'' is added on top of the ''[[shadda|{{transl|ar|DIN|šaddah}}]]'' to indicate the pronunciation.

One exception may be in the pre-Islamic [[History of the Arabic alphabet#Pre-Islamic Arabic inscriptions|Zabad inscription]],<ref>{{cite web
| title=Zebed Inscription: A Pre-Islamic Trilingual Inscription In Greek, Syriac & Arabic From 512 CE
| url=http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/zebed.html
| publisher=Islamic Awareness
| date=17 March 2005
}}
</ref> where it ends with an ambiguous sign that may be a lone-standing ''h'' with a lengthened start, or may be a non-standard conjoined ''{{transl|ar|DIN|l-h}}'':-
* {{lang|ar| الاه }}: This reading would be ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' spelled phonetically with ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'' for the ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ā}}''.
* {{lang|ar| الإله }}: This reading would be ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Al-ʾilāh}}'' = "the god" (an older form, without contraction), by older spelling practice without ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'' for ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ā}}''.

===Unicode===
[[Unicode]] has a codepoint reserved for ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'', {{script/Arabic|ﷲ}} = U+FDF2.
This character according to the official Unicode specification is a ligature of ''alif-lām-lām-shadda-(superscript alif)-hā'' (اللّٰه U+0627 U+0644 U+0644 U+0651 U+0670 U+0647).
[[File:Allah.svg|thumb|right|200px|An example of ''{{transl|ar|DIN|Allāh}}'' written in simple [[Arabic calligraphy]].]]
There is, however some confusion arising from the fact that Arabic typography usually features a ''{{transl|ar|DIN|llāh}}'' glyph without the preceding ''{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾalif}}'', which only occurs phrase-initially (or with {{transl|ar|DIN|''[[hamza]]tu l-waṣl''}} {{script|Arab|ٱ}} in Qur'anic orthography). Consequently, the majority of [[Arabic Unicode]] fonts do not conform with the specification and have a glyph without the alif at this position (e.g. those provided by [http://www.linotype.com/2517/arabicfonts.html Linotype], the great majority of those licensed to or developed by [http://www.microsoft.com/typography/links/FontPortal.aspx?PID=8 Microsoft], those of [http://www.arabeyes.org Arabeyes.org], [[SIL International|SIL]]'s [http://scripts.sil.org/ArabicFonts Lateef] and the fonts of [http://www.crulp.org CRULP] developed in Pakistan),
while others have the prescribed form with alif (e.g. [http://scripts.sil.org/ArabicFonts SIL's Scheherazade], [http://www.tdc.org/news/2006Results/AdobeArabic.html Adobe Arabic] distributed with the Middle-Eastern version
of the [http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readermain.html Adobe Reader 7], [[Arial Unicode MS]], and [http://sakkal.com/type/typesetting.html Arabic Typesetting], distributed with [http://www.microsoft.com/typography/VOLT.mspx VOLT] and with [http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/language/proofingtools.mspx Microsoft Office Proofing Tools 2003]).

The calligraphic variant of the word used as the [[Coat of arms of Iran]] is encoded in Unicode, in the [[Miscellaneous Symbols]] range, at codepoint U+262B ({{unicode|☫}}).

==See also==
* [[Abdullah (name)]]
* [[Ilah|{{transl|ar|DIN|ʾIlāh}}]]
* [[Names of God]]
* [[Tawhid|{{transl|ar|DIN|Tawḥīd}}]]
* [[Dhikr|{{transl|ar|DIN|Ḏikr}}]]
* [[Termagant]]
* [[Five Pillars of Islam]]
* [[Kaaba|{{transl|ar|DIN|Kaʿbah}}]]
* [[Prophets of Islam]]
* [[El (deity)]]

==Notes==
{{Reflist|2}}

==References==
* The Unicode Consortium, ''Unicode Standard 5.0'', Addison-Wesley, 2006, ISBN 978-0-321-48091-0, [http://unicode.org/book/aboutbook.html About the Unicode Standard Version 5.0 Book]

==External links==
{{Wikisource}}
{{wikiquote}}
{{Commons and category|Allah}}
* [http://www.searchtruth.com/Allah/99Names.php Names of Allah with meaning on website, Flash, and Mobile phone Software.]
* [http://www.sultan.org/articles/god.html Concept of God (Allah) in Islam]
* [http://www.islam-info.ch/en/Who_is_Allah.htm The Concept of Allāh according to the Qur'an] by Abdul Mannan Omar
* [http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm Allah, the unique name of God]

; Typography
* [http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/ArabicFonts.html Arabic fonts and Mac OS X]
* [http://www.smi.uib.no/ksv/ArabicProgsx.html Programs for Arabic in Mac OS X]

{{Islam topics|state=collapsed}}

[[Category:Allah| ]]
[[Category:Arabic loanwords]]
[[Category:Islamic theology]]
[[Category:Names of God in Islam]]
[[Category:God]]
[[Category:Creator deities]]

[[ace:Allah]]
[[af:Allah]]
[[am:አላህ]]
[[ar:الله (إسلام)]]
[[ast:Alá]]
[[av:Аллагь]]
[[az:Allah]]
[[bn:আল্লাহ]]
[[ba:Аллаһ]]
[[be:Алах]]
[[be-x-old:Паняцьце Бога ў ісламе]]
[[bg:Аллах]]
[[bs:Allah]]
[[br:Allah]]
[[ca:Al·là]]
[[cs:Alláh]]
[[cy:Al-lâh]]
[[da:Allah]]
[[de:Allah]]
[[dv:ﷲ]]
[[et:Allah]]
[[el:Αλλάχ]]
[[es:Alá]]
[[eo:Alaho]]
[[eu:Allah]]
[[fa:الله]]
[[fr:Allah]]
[[gl:Alá]]
[[ko:알라]]
[[hy:Ալլահ]]
[[hi:अल्लाह]]
[[hr:Alah]]
[[id:Allah]]
[[ia:Allah]]
[[is:Allah]]
[[it:Allah]]
[[he:אללה]]
[[jv:Allah]]
[[kn:ಅಲ್ಲಾಹ]]
[[ka:ალაჰი]]
[[kk:Аллах]]
[[sw:Allah]]
[[ku:Xweda]]
[[mrj:Аллах]]
[[lv:Allāhs]]
[[lb:Allah]]
[[lt:Alachas]]
[[hu:Allah]]
[[mk:Алах]]
[[ml:അല്ലാഹു]]
[[mt:Alla]]
[[ms:Allah]]
[[nl:Allah]]
[[nds-nl:Allah]]
[[ja:アッラーフ]]
[[ce:Аллахl]]
[[no:Allah]]
[[nn:Allah]]
[[mhr:Аллах]]
[[uz:Alloh]]
[[pnb:الله]]
[[pl:Allah]]
[[pt:Alá]]
[[ro:Allah]]
[[ru:Аллах]]
[[sah:Аллах]]
[[sq:Allahu]]
[[scn:Allah]]
[[simple:Allah]]
[[sd:الله]]
[[ss:Allah]]
[[sk:Alah]]
[[sl:Alah]]
[[so:Allaah]]
[[ckb:خوا لە ئیسلامدا]]
[[sr:Алах]]
[[sh:Allah]]
[[su:Alloh]]
[[fi:Allah]]
[[sv:Allah]]
[[ta:அல்லா]]
[[tt:Allah]]
[[th:อัลลอฮ์]]
[[tg:Оллоҳ]]
[[tr:Allah]]
[[uk:Аллах]]
[[ur:اللہ]]
[[vi:Allah]]
[[yo:Allah]]
[[zh:安拉]]

AC Transit bus fight

2011-12-08T00:43:08Z

Parthian Scribe: adding age (see 3:01 in the interview) + it's unclear whether contact was made

'''The AC Transit Bus fight''' was an altercation between two men aboard a [[transit bus]] in [[Oakland]], [[California]], in the [[United States]], which took place on February 15, 2010, at approximately 3:00 p.m [[Eastern time zone|EST]]. The fight, featuring 67 years old Thomas A. Bruso, who became known as "Epic Beard Man" and a 50 year old<ref>{{Citation|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I1r3dhMUO4}}</ref> black man named Michael was [[video tape]]d and later uploaded to the [[Video hosting service|video hosting website]] [[YouTube]], where it became a [[viral video]]<ref>{{Citation|url=http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M7-nnVH48uYC&pg=PA13|title=Frommer's San Francisco 2011 - Google Books|work=books.google.co.uk|ISBN=978-0470636145|page=13|accessdate=2 March 2011}}</ref>. As of September 12, 2010, the video has received over 4.7 million views on various blogs and websites. It ranked among the top five most viewed videos on YouTube in its first week, but was not included in the official list.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/fight-breaks-out-in-ac-transit-bus_100321867.html|title=Fight Breaks Out In AC Transit Bus|last=Gomez|first=Cina|publisher=[[Thaindian News]]|date=February 17, 2010|accessdate=2010-02-19}}</ref><ref name=cbs13-21710/> Numerous racially charged comments were left on the YouTube page.<ref>{{cite news|author=Gay, Mara |url=http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/racially-charged-fight-on-oakland-bus-gets-even-uglier-on-youtube/19365342 |title=Racially Charged Fight on Oakland Bus Gets Even Uglier on YouTube |publisher=[[AOL News]] |date= |accessdate=2010-02-20}}</ref> The event raised concerns following a number of previous incidents involving violence on the public transport system in Oakland.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0217/Fights-on-public-transit-Oakland-bus-fracas-is-latest-flash-point|publisher=[[Christian Science Monitor]]|date=17 February 2010|title=Fights on public transit: Oakland bus fracas is latest flash point|last=Farrell | first=Michael B. | accessdate=20 February 2010}}</ref>

==Incident==
[[Image:ACTrans 40l.JPG|thumb|The incident took place aboard an [[AC Transit]] bus.]]
The incident took place in downtown Oakland on an [[Alameda-Contra Costa Transit District]] (AC Transit) Line NL bus bound for [[San Francisco]], and involved a [[black people|black]] man, identified only as Michael,<ref name=doghouse/> and an older [[white people|white]] bearded man identified as Thomas Alexander Bruso,<ref name=doghouse>{{cite web |author=''[[The Dog House (talk show)|Dog House FM]]''|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf8ZDs-D8Ys&feature=player_embedded |title=AC TRANSIT BUS FIGHT-- Interview w Tom (Epic Beard Man) & Parody Song |date=20 February 2010 |publisher=[[YouTube]] |accessdate=21 February 2010}}</ref><ref name=cbs5>{{cite news |url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/17/national/main6217265.shtml |title=Witness: Oakland Bus Fight Racially Tinged |date= 2010-02-17|publisher=[[CBS News]] |accessdate=18 February 2010}}</ref> who later came to be referred to as "'''Epic Beard Man'''".<ref name=huffpo>{{cite web|url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/20/why-epic-beard-man-is-the_n_470064.html|title=Why 'Epic Beard Man' Is The Fastest Growing Public Fight Meme Ever|date=20 February 2010|publisher=The Huffington Post}}</ref><ref name=dailymail>{{cite web |url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1251946/Racially-charged-fight-U-S-bus-YouTube-hit.html |title='Racially-charged' fight on U.S. bus becomes YouTube hit|date=18 February 2010 |publisher=[[The Daily Mail]] |accessdate=18 February 2010}}</ref> The events in the bus were recorded by Iyanna Washington.<ref name=cbs13-21710 />

In the video, Bruso is seen wearing a light blue T-shirt that reads "I AM a [[Motherfucker]]" on the back. Bruso is seated across from Michael near the rear of the bus. The cause of the altercation is unclear, but the conversation quickly becomes heated, with Michael angrily asking Bruso, "Why's a brother got to spit shine your shoes?" Thomas has stated in later interviews that Michael tried to make his statement racial. Thomas then tells how he was referring to a person that "was gonna shine his shoes" and that a brother "could be anyone." After additional charged exchange, Bruso says, "you ain't scaring this white boy," and moves to the front of the bus. Both men continue trading verbal barbs and Michael stands up after several seconds and walks towards Bruso's seat at the front of the bus.

Much of their conversation is inaudible, and some riders discourage Michael from approaching Bruso, while others encourage him to attack and use anti-white [[racial slur|slurs]]. Michael suddenly swings at Bruso during the verbal exchange. Very angry, Bruso stands and delivers several punches, knocking Michael to the floor. View of the men is lost briefly while Washington moves closer to the commotion; when view resumes, Bruso is shown with Michael, who is now bleeding from facial injuries, in his grasp. Bruso releases Michael, exclaiming "I told you not to fuck with me!", and then exits the bus, and is still yelling when the bus makes its next stop. After another exchange, Michael returns to his seat in the rear of the bus. Washington then takes a bag Bruso left behind and carries it to the back of the bus. Washington offers Michael the use of her recording if he wishes to press charges, but Michael never acknowledges the offer, instead requesting an ambalamps.<ref name=ap>{{cite web|author=[[Associated Press]] |url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KWEEBOtvTk |title=Raw Video: Fist Fight Aboard Oakland Bus|publisher=[[YouTube]] |date= |accessdate=2010-02-20}}</ref>

In a second video, Bruso, now on the street, continues to yell about the fight. He loudly mentions [[Vietnam War|Vietnam]] and kicks a newspaper dispenser before walking away.<ref name=ap /> Both men were treated at a local hospital for their injuries.<ref name=kgo-tv/> Bruso underwent [[psychiatric evaluation]] at [[John George Psychiatric Pavilion]] in [[San Leandro]]. Neither man was arrested.<ref name=kgo-tv>{{cite web|author= |url=http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=7282089 |title=Fight on AC Transit bus caught on video|publisher=[[KGO-TV]] |date=February 17, 2010 |accessdate=2010-02-17}}</ref><ref name=videopast>{{cite web|author=Woodall, Angela|url=http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_14434328 |title=AC Transit bus brawler has video past|publisher=[[San Jose Mercury]] |date=February 19, 2010 |accessdate=2010-02-20}}</ref>

===Videographer's response===
On February 17, 2010, Washington posted her own perspective of the events on YouTube.<ref name=cbs13-21710>{{cite web |url=http://cbs13.com/watercooler/fight.caught.on.2.1500830.html |title=Wild Fight On Transit Bus Caught On Tape|date=17 February 2010 |publisher=[[KOVR-TV]] |accessdate=26 February 2010}}{{Dead link|date=May 2011}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|author=“” |url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbsX5j-8T3Y&feature=related |title=The Day After The World Saw Ac Transit Buc Fight I Am A Motherfucker L & Ll |publisher=YouTube |date= |accessdate=2010-08-13}}</ref> In this video, Washington says she hopes to "clear some things up." ''See'' @ (0:45). She goes on later to say, "I would like to apologize to anyone who took offense to any part of this video." ''Id.'' @ (3:15—3:21).

Responding to allegations that Michael was her "companion," Washington makes clear, "I've never seen these two gentlemen ever before in my life", and claims she did not intend to steal Bruso's bag.<ref>{{cite news|author=Abraham, Zennie|url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/abraham/detail?entry_id=57453 |title=City Brights: Zennie Abraham : AC Transit Bus Fight - YouTuber iyannaw08 talks about video |publisher=San Francisco Chronicle |date= February 17, 2010|accessdate=2010-02-20}}</ref> In a subsequent interview, when asked if he got his "stuff back," Bruso said Sheriff's deputies ultimately did return his belongings, except an identification card and some money, "about three (3) hours later."<ref>{{cite web|author=“” |url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K46Hv0APV4&annotation_id=annotation_884790&feature=iv |title=Thomas Bruso aka Epic Beard Man Interviewed http://tinyurl.com/27o67s6 |publisher=YouTube |date= |accessdate=2010-08-13}}</ref> ''See'' @ (3:55—4:05). Washington also appeared in a local CBS news video interview giving her version of events.<ref name=cbs5 /><ref name=thescavenger32 />

==Thomas Bruso==
Bruso was born in [[Michigan]].<ref name=epicbeardmandocumentarypart1 /> In addition to the "AC Transit Fight", another video involving Thomas Bruso was uploaded to YouTube. He was stunned with a [[taser]] twice at the [[Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum|Oakland Coliseum]] by police on August 3, 2009, for failing to comply with police officers. He was charged with [[resisting arrest]] and taken to a psychiatric hospital for evaluation.<ref name=videopast /> [http://www.sfweekly.com/2010-05-12/news/the-rise-and-fall-of-an-internet-sensation/2/]

===Interviews of Bruso===
Bruso was the subject of several interviews, among those one shot in San Francisco by KRON on February 19, 2010.<ref>{{cite web|author=|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sWgtGdl7KQ |title=Epic Beard Man Interview|publisher=[[YouTube]] |date=February 19, 2010 |accessdate=2010-02-20}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|author=|url=
http://www.kron4.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/5038/reftab/536/t/AC%20Transit%20Says%20Bus%20Driver%20Followed%20Pr%20otocol%20During%20Fight%20on%20Bus%20in%20Oakland/Default.aspx |title=AC Transit Says Bus Driver Followed Protocol During Fight on Bus in Oakland |publisher=[[KRON 4]] |date=February 19, 2010 |accessdate=2010-02-28}}</ref> Nathan Maas, a [[graphic design]]er from [[Portland, Oregon|Portland]], [[Oregon]], produced a documentary short entitled ''I Am a Motherfucker'', in which Bruso is interviewed about his personal background, day-to-day activity, and thoughts on his contemporary celebrity status. The documentary was uploaded to YouTube.<ref name=thescavenger32>{{cite news|author=Yoo, Aileen|url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/scavenger/detail?entry_id=58249 |title=The obsession with AC Transit brawler, a.k.a. Epic Beard Man|publisher=San Francisco Chronicle |date=March 2, 2010 |accessdate=2010-03-02}}</ref><ref name=epicbeardmandocumentarypart1>{{cite web|author=Maas, Nathan|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AedJy9tAYL4 |title=''I Am a Motherfucker: Part One''|publisher=[[YouTube]] |date=February 26, 2010 |accessdate=2010-02-28}}</ref><ref name=epicbeardmandocumentarypart2>{{cite web|author=Maas, Nathan|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRkeSjn5Dv8 |title=''I Am a Motherfucker: Part Two''|publisher=[[YouTube]] |date=February 26, 2010 |accessdate=2010-02-28}}</ref> [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhh_HQwaNw8][http://www.sfweekly.com/2010-05-12/news/the-rise-and-fall-of-an-internet-sensation/5/]

==Michael==
The black male, identified only as Michael, was interviewed on the set of San Francisco Bay Area radio talk show ''[[The Dog House (talk show)|Dog House FM]]'' on February 22, 2010, where he issued an apology to AC Transit, the people who were present on the bus at the time of the incident, and to Bruso for his role in the fight. In the interview, he claimed that during the AC Transit event, he was intoxicated, but insisted that he was trying to calm down Bruso on the bus. Michael also said Bruso's accusations in one interview are not true (that Michael was a [[convict]]ed murderer on [[parole]]; that Michael brandished a knife at Bruso).<ref name=doghouse2>{{cite web|author=''[[The Dog House (talk show)|Dog House FM]]''|url=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I1r3dhMUO4 |title=AC Transit Bus Fight - Interview MICHAEL THE BLACK GUY THAT GOT BEAT UP - Epic Beard Man|publisher=[[YouTube]] |date=February 22, 2010 |accessdate=2010-02-22}}</ref>
He also said the famous quote, "Bring the ambalamps/amberlamps."

==Spread of the meme==
Within a short time of the original video "going viral", musical and animated parodies about the fight began to appear on YouTube<ref name=dailymail/> in a manner similar to the way parodies spread after the "Don't tase me, bro!" [[University of Florida Taser incident]]. ''[[The Huffington Post]]'' called the AC Transit Bus Fight "the fastest growing public fight [[meme]] ever".<ref name=huffpo/> Original songs, remixes, [[animation]]s, "tributes", and other derivative and reflective videos, [[slide show]]s, and photo galleries dedicated to the event and its participants were also hosted at newly opened [[Internet]] domains with names that derived from aspects of the event.{{Citation needed|date=April 2011}}

Typical of the adaptations of the original video that focused on the fight as a form of [[video game]] was a ''[[Mortal Kombat]]'' parody called "Epic Beard Man – Mortal Kombat Style".<ref name=thescavenger32 /><ref name=sfchronmortalkombat>{{cite web|author=Zierlein, Lance|url=http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2010/02/sweet_videos_mortal_kombat_epi.html|title=The Z Report|publisher=San Francisco Chronicle|date= February 19, 2010|accessdate=2010-02-20}}</ref>

==See also==
* [[The Bus Uncle]], a similar (albeit non-violent) confrontation on a bus in [[Hong Kong]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*{{YouTube|lQJFv9SMSMQ Original AC Transit Bus Fight}}
*{{YouTube|AedJy9tAYL4 ''I Am A Motherfucker''}}
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbsX5j-8T3Y Video by Iyanna Washington, woman who shot the original video]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Ac Transit Bus Fight}}
[[Category:Citizen journalism]]
[[Category:Bus transportation in California]]
[[Category:Internet memes]]
[[Category:Viral videos]]
[[Category:History of Oakland, California]]
[[Category:Transportation in Oakland, California]]
[[Category:2010 in transport]]
[[Category:2010 in California]]
[[Category:YouTube videos]]

[[ang:AC Transit Bus feoht]]

Philip Emeagwali

2011-03-23T08:06:40Z

Parthian Scribe:

'''Philip Emeagwali''' (born in 1954) is an [[African American]]-born [[engineer]] and [[computer scientist]]/[[geologist]] who was one of two winners of the 1989 [[Gordon Bell Prize]], a prize from the [[IEEE]], for his use of a [[Connection Machine]] [[supercomputer]] to help analyze petroleum fields. He has an IQ of 190. <ref name="IQ">http://palscience.com/science/the-worlds-top-8-smartest-people/</ref>

==Biography==
Emeagwali was born in [[Akure]], Nigeria on 23 August 1954.<ref name="born">Hamilton, Janice. ''Nigeria in Pictures''. Page 70</ref> His early schooling was suspended in 1967 due to the Nigerian-Biafran war. When he turned fourteen, he served in the Biafran army. After the war he completed a high-school equivalency through self-study. He travelled to the United States to study under a scholarship after taking a correspondence course at the University of London.{{Citation needed|date=March 2009}} He received a bachelor's degree in mathematics from Oregon State University in 1977. He worked as a civil engineer at the Bureau of Land Reclamation in Wyoming during this period.

==Awards==
Emeagwali received a $1,000<ref>[http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19970012353_1997018248.pdf Gordon Bell Prize Lectures]</ref> 1989 [[Gordon Bell Prize]], based on an application of the [[Connection Machine|CM-2]] massively-parallel computer for oil-reservoir modeling. He won in the "price/performance" category, with a performance figure of 400 [[flops|Mflops]]/$1M, corresponding to an absolute performance of 3.1 Gflops. The other recipient of the award, who won in the "peak performance" category for a similar application of the CM-2 to oil-related seismic data processing, actually had a price-performance figure of 500 Mflops/$1M and an absolute performance of 6.0 Gflops, but the judges decided not to award both prizes to the same team.<ref>[http://www.sc2000.org/bell/pastawrd.htm Gordon Bell Prize winners 1987-1999]</ref><ref>[http://index.ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel1/52/1996/x0421343.pdf "Special Report: 1989 Gordon Bell Prize"], ''IEEE Software'', March 1990, pp. 100-104,110</ref> Emeagwali's simulation was the first program to apply a pseudo-time approach to reservoir modeling.<ref name="siam">[http://emeagwali.com/society/society-for-industrial-and-applied-mathematics/SIAM-news-oil-industry-problem.html Both Gordon Bell Prize Winners Tackle Oil Industry Problems], SIAM News '''23'''(3), 1990; excerpted on Emeagwali's Web site.</ref>

Apart from the prize itself, there is no evidence that Emeagwali's work was ever accepted for publication in the [[peer review|peer-reviewed]] scientific literature, nor that it had any other lasting impact on the field of [[high-performance computing]] or the [[History of the Internet|development of the Internet]].<ref>As of December 2009, none of the [http://dblp.uni-trier.de/ Computer Science Bibliography], the [http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/ CiteSeer Research Index], nor [http://scholar.google.com/ Google Scholar] contain any record of either scientific publications by Emeagwali himself, or documented uses of his methods and results by other researchers in academia or industry.</ref> Neither does he hold any recognized [[patent]]s for his results.<ref>[http://inventors.about.com/od/blackinventors/a/black_historyE.htm African American inventors: Patent holders list (E)]</ref> (He does, however, own a US [[trademark]] for his website name, "EMEAGWALI.COM".)<ref>[http://tarr.uspto.gov/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78956022&action=Request+Status EMEAGWALI.COM record at US Patent and Trademark Office]</ref> Nevertheless, Emeagwali was voted the "35th-greatest African (and greatest African scientist) of all time" in a survey by ''[[New African]]'' magazine.<ref>[http://www.africasia.com/newafrican/na.php?ID=385&back_month=36 "Your 100 Greatest Africans of all time", ''New African'', August 2004]</ref> His achievements were quoted in a speech by [[Bill Clinton]] as an example of what Nigerians could achieve when given the opportunity.<ref>[http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8228484564915781123 Bill Clinton, ''Remarks to a Joint Session of the Nigerian National Assembly in Abuja'', August 2000] ([http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2889/is_35_36/ai_67645146/pg_5 transcript])</ref> He is also a frequent feature of [[Black History Month]] articles in the [[popular press]].<ref>[http://edition.cnn.com/fyi/interactive/specials/bhm/story/black.innovators.html "Innovators Who Break Barriers", CNNfyi.com, February 9, 2001]</ref><ref>[http://www.time.com/time/2007/blackhistmth/bios/04.html "Philip Emeagwali: A Calculating Move", ''TIME'' Black History Month feature, February 8, 2007]</ref>

==Court case==
Emeagwali studied for a Ph.D. degree from the University of Michigan from 1987 through 1991. His thesis was not accepted by a committee of internal and external examiners and thus he was not awarded the degree. Emeagwali filed a court challenge, stating that the decision was a violation of his civil rights and that the university had discriminated against him in several ways because of his race. The court challenge was dismissed, as was an appeal to the Michigan state Court of Appeals.<ref>[http://www.michbar.org/opinions/appeals/1999/102999/5473.html Michigan Appeals Court decision, ''Emeagwali v. University of Michigan'', October 1999] ([http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0DXK/22_16/58614840/p1/article.jhtml summary article])</ref>

==Disparaging Media Comment==
A news editorial published on October 18, 2010 by Sahara Reporters, a news agency, refuted all claims by Philip Emeagwali to his claimed success. The newspaper gave evidential and incisive details as to why he could never have achieved all self-described feats, including being the 'Father of the Internet'<ref>http://saharareporters.com/report/how-philip-emeagwali-lied-his-way-fame</ref>

==References==
{{Reflist}} Emeagwali is variously referred to as "a father of internet" not "the father of internet"

==External links==
{{Portal box|Nigeria|Computer science}}
*[http://www.emeagwali.com emeagwali.com] - Emeagwali's personal website.
*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/digital_giants/8561413.stm Digital Giants: Philip Emeagwali (BBC)]
*[http://www.ieee.org/web/aboutus/history_center/biography/emeagwali.html Biography of Emeagwali from IEEE]

*[http://magazine.biafranigeriaworld.com/cezeilo/2003nov09.html "Self-Promotion and Self-Authentication: the Abuse of Cyber Pseudo-Anonymity. Part II: 'Father of the Internet'", ''BiafraNigeriaWorld'', November 2003] - an article that highly critically examines Emeagwali's claims, describing them as "disingenuous"

{{Persondata 
| NAME = Emeagwali, Philip
| ALTERNATIVE NAMES =
| SHORT DESCRIPTION =
| DATE OF BIRTH = 1954
| PLACE OF BIRTH =
| DATE OF DEATH =
| PLACE OF DEATH =
}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Emeagwali, Philip}}
[[Category:1954 births]]
[[Category:African scientists]]
[[Category:George Washington University alumni]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:Igbo scientific computing researchers]]
[[Category:Igbo computer scientists]]
[[Category:Nigerian scientists]]
[[Category:Oregon State University alumni]]
[[Category:Scientific computing researchers]]
[[Category:People from Akure]]

[[sw:Philip Emeagwali]]
[[nl:Philip Emeagwali]]
[[ja:フィリップ・エミーグワリ]]
[[pl:Philip Emeagwali]]

Talk:Muhammad/images

2011-03-13T21:47:29Z

Parthian Scribe: /* images */

{{tmbox
|type=speedy
|style=border: 2px solid #B22222; background-color:#FFDDDD;
|image=[[Image:Stop sign UAE.jpg|60px]]
|text='''Important notice''':
This page is solely for constructive discussion of how best to integrate images in the [[Muhammad]] page, within [[WP:TALK|Wikipedia talkpage guidelines]].
*If you have come here to protest against the presence of images depicting Muhammad, '''please don't post here'''. Such objections have been raised before, and been given our consideration.
*If you have come here to protest against how Muslims are trying to remove images of Muhammad from Wikipedia, '''please don't post here'''. That is not new either.
*If you have come here to respond to those who have ignored point 1 and 2 above, please [[Wikipedia:Do not feed the trolls|Do not feed the trolls]] and post a simple link to the [[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ|FAQ]] instead.
A summary of the current consensus regarding pictures of Muhammad can be found at '''[[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ]]'''.
If you personally want to avoid seeing the images, you might want to read [[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ|How to set your browser to not see images of Muhammad]]'''.

Suggestions are expected to be informed by Wikipedia guidelines, in particular [[Wikipedia:No disclaimers in articles]]. Suggestions for an adaptation of standing guidelines are offtopic on this page and belong on [[Wikipedia talk:No disclaimers in articles]] or [[Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)]].

Because of disruption and trolling, the [[Muhammad]] page can be edited only by established Wikipedia users. Please be polite and calm. [[Troll (Internet)|Trolling]] or aggressive rhetoric either for or against the use of images will not be tolerated.
{{tmbox
|style=border-color:#b00000;
|type=content
|image=[[Image:Stop hand.svg|60px]]
|text=<div>
'''Important notice''': Prior discussion has determined that '''''pictures of Muhammad are allowed and will not be removed from this article'''''. <big>'''Discussion of images should be posted to the subpage [[Talk:Muhammad/images]]. Removal of pictures without discussion will be reverted.'''</big> If you find Muhammad images offensive, it is possible to configure your browser or use your personal Wikipedia settings not to display them, see [[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ]].

The '''FAQ''' addresses some common points of argument, including the use of images and honorifics such as "peace be upon him". The FAQ represents prior [[WP:CON|consensus]] of editors here. If you are new to this article and have a question or suggestion for it, please read the FAQ first.}}
}}
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{{User:MiszaBot/config
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== Credibility ==
I question the credibility of this article since it does not follow the Islamic rules of depicting the prophets own image. By displaying an image of the prophet then you have discredited this entire article all together. comment added by [[User:HShaltout747|HShaltout747]]
:Please read: [[WP:NOTCENSORED|Wikipedia is not censored]] and [[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ|the FAQ on Muhammad]] about why the pictures will not be removed. [[User:Jarkeld|Jarkeld]] ([[User talk:Jarkeld|talk]]) 01:25, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:Also, Wikipedia is not bound by the rules of Islam. The article would have less credibility if it adhered only to an Islamic point of view. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 09:07, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
::Amatulic, I'd say that these images reduce the credibility/quality of this article even from non-Muslim perspectives. Just compare if someone plastered images [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FABF06.jpg like this one] all over the [[Mozart]] article. Wouldn't you agree that such images would reduce the quality of the Mozart article? I'm sure that most Mozart fans would find that unencyclopedic or even offensive. Similarly, one wonders why there are images from an obscure Children book that was drawn almost a 1000-years after the fact, like [[Siyer-i Nebi]], all over the Muhammad article. '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 15:08, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::That comparison might have merit if this article contained images from the [[Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy]], but it doesn't. [[Siyer-i Nebi]] is a classic 16th century Ottoman manuscript (not a child's cartoon like the Mozart example) and the image provides a fascinating and informative view which couldn't be conveyed by text alone. What lacks credibility is complaints about historical images in an article about a historical person. [[User:Doc Tropics|Doc ]] [[User talk:Doc Tropics|Tropics]] 16:19, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::: Doc Tropics, actually [[Siyer-i Nebi]] is an obscure children book that was produced almost a 1000 years after the fact. Historical, yes, but still historically insignificant and irrelevant to the study of Muhammad himself. Also, since you claim that these images are informative, could you please explain in what sense (considering that they contain errors by showing Muhammad in Ottoman settings), and, more importantly, your positive assertion is based on which authority? '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 16:49, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

:::Speaking as a non-Muslim, I would say you could not possibly be more wrong. As an objective viewer interested in historical people, I would expect to see such depictions on this article, same as I would for any other significant person in history. To remove the images would destroy any expectation of reliability and neutrality, as I would immediately question what else has been changed, omitted or censored. I would therefore have no choice but to believe the article carries a biased point of view in that scenario. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 16:50, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

:::: Resolute, so you consider *all* articles about historical figures that lack images to be biased or censored? Is this for all articles or just a special treatment reserved for Muhammad? If it's a special treatment, then try to be neutral please, and remember that images conveying false information are being removed all the time. Also, your argument suffers from [[WP:Recentism]] because it assumes that a typical reader would think of censorship while reading this article. Why would they? Moreover, you're a heavily-involved editor in this battle, so by definition you're anything but "objective" (assuming that objectivity actually exists).

:::: On the other hand, a typical reader, being not part of any battles, will think that such images are here because they were deemed notable (which is false), they effectively illustrate an event (false), historically significant (false), drawn by a Muslim (partly true/disputed/false), etc. This is what I thought when I first read this article a couple of months ago, which all turned out to be false or original research. I think for now it would be best to add a couple of tags to this article (and FAQ) just to warn readers of the high dosage of misinformation awaiting them. '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 22:13, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::We've been through this repeatedly with you, and as per usual, your personal POV is not supported by policy, logic, consensus or neutrality. I realize that you are simply going to try and re-fight the same lost battle every time a new thread is created on this talk page, so at this point I am going to deny you the opportunity by simply ignoring your arguments until you have something new to say. Hopefully others will too. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 22:31, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

{{od}}
It's not a "personal POV", for I have already referred to 2-3 sources that support my claims. Here is another one. It's a book by [[Thomas Walker Arnold]] (full reference below). Arnold asserts that "pictures of Muhammad are so rare that some writers have even doubted the existence of any." (p.91) This supports my claim that these images are obscure. Arnold also describes the lack of pictorial religious art throughout Islamic history, which is a well-established historical fact. So despite the fact that Muhammad's history spans 1400-years that were overwhelmingly lacking in pictorial depictions of him, we see plenty in this article -- to the point of using multiple pages from the same obscure books and periods (a perfect example of giving [[wp:undue|undue space]]). Also contrary to what the FAQ claims that these images were drawn by Muslims, Arnold notes concerning the illustrators of [[Jami' al-Tawarikh]] that "we have no indications as to their nationality or religion". (p.94) Full reference below. '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 14:57, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

{{Cite book| publisher = Gorgias Press LLC| isbn = 9781931956918| last = Arnold| first = Thomas W.| title = Painting in Islam, a Study of the Place of Pictorial Art in Muslim Culture| date = 2002-11}}

Referencing the [[Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy]] problem, which means you have not understood the core of the crisis. Displaying an image of any of the 3 prophets is harmful to the islamic ways, what the Jyllands-Posten did was adding harm to misery. Again, i repeat my questioning, the writers have no background about islam, nor its traditions and have no respect whatsoever for the readers. I ask you to remove the entire post because of continued illiteracy regarding the topic. comment added by [[User:HShaltout747|HShaltout747]] —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 18:01, 12 December 2010 (UTC). 
:Around and around we go. Wikipedia isn't bound by Islam's rules. Islam-specific articles aren't bound by islam's rules, nor is any article bound by the rules of its subject (we are allowed, for example, to have an article on the [[Amish]], with images, who frown on the use of computers and dislike having their picture taken.)
:The pictures stay. --[[User talk:Kingoomieiii|King Öomie]] 16:42, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
::I think i diverted off and was replying somewhere else, I went to the Muhammad/Discussions (Edit request from 180.149.48.51, 26 October 2010). Keep the page and the images, but please understand, their incomplete unless you say the full truth about them, making it your responsibility in keeping them that way. Thank you for your time and your patience. PEACE!! [[User:HShaltout747|HShaltout747]] ([[User talk:HShaltout747|talk]]) 13:11, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The problem with the "full truth" is that some people here are adamant that the "full truth" as should be printed on wikipedia reads ''"This hateful, awful image, created by an enemy of Islam, characterizes the sheer ignorance of the unfaithful"''. I think you can see why really any description along these lines isn't acceptable. We're not trying to discredit artists- the purpose of the pictures is to display how Mohammad has been portrayed in the past. --[[User talk:Kingoomieiii|King Öomie]] 14:29, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
::::Kingoomieiii, I agree with your last point. That's why we have a "depiction of" article, which is perfectly appropriate for an encyclopedia. But adding images to the main article of Muhammad is not always appropriate. For instance, it's rather unencyclopedic to use images found in a children's book from a 1000 years after the fact to represent an influential historical battle like the conquest of Mecca. I've never seen such an awful editorial judgment in any other article on Wikipedia. '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 20:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::I don't see the relevance of how long after Mohammad's death the painting was made. If you're making the argument that the source [[WP:NOTE|isn't notable enough]] to pull an image from, good luck, but otherwise I don't see your point, especially if you're trying to argue that the point of view of the author isn't 'correct'. Historical depictions aren't always picture-perfect (for example, anthropologically speaking, there is little to no chance that the historical [[Jesus]] was a white man, despite what nearly 100% of depictions would have you believe). --[[User talk:Kingoomieiii|King Öomie]] 21:21, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::: Kingoomieiii, the date of this specific book is relevant because it shows Muhammad in 16th-century Ottoman settings (i.e., as a person from 1000-years after the fact). Not very useful or informative in the context of this article. So I'm not arguing on the basis of "correctness", but appropriateness (encyclopedic or not, informative or not, given due space or not). Also, the Jesus comparison is not valid considering that, unlike the Jesus images, images of Muhammad were obscure and generally not influential. '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 15:06, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::::I've seen this argument entirely too many times, so let me be plainly clear.
:::::::*It doesn't matter how long after the fact the images were made.
:::::::*It doesn't matter that the images likely don't reflect what Mohammad actually looked like (and no one is saying they do).
:::::::*Their lack of photorealism does not hurt their credibility as '''Historical Depictions of Mohammad''' in any way.
:::::::*They will not be removed on the basis of this argument, or any form of this argument. Really.
:::::::I'd like to put a pin in this topic now, as it's entirely fruitless. --[[User talk:Kingoomieiii|King Öomie]] 15:28, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

== These Images are extremely offensive. ==

Islam strictly prohibits any photography or drawing faces of a human and leads to the worse punishments in Hell. Even more if you are drawing the images of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). This is extremely offensive to us Muslims. We said many times to people do not draw any pictures of the Holy prophet yet you throw this regard over your shoulder and post it unto your profile. The Ottoman empire wasn't even considered a caliphate empire of Islam rather an empire of it own. Whoever has done this must have done this in secret and who ever shows this isn't improving any details of the life and message of our Holy Prophet(pbuh). If you want you can take pictures of Mosques or sceneries of Battles or even Maps showing how where and how Islam spread you may do so but posting up pictures showing nothing of significance besides the bodies of Gabriel(pbuh) and our Holy Prophet(pbuh) is strictly prohibited and offensive to Islam and the followers of that faith. We do not own wikipedia and we don't operate it but the most we can do it talk in this page. Please remove these pictures. Thousands of Muslims watching this are in stress!

P.S A troll is someone who is offensive regardlessly. Any Muslim trying to express on this certain page isn't. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Abdul3basid|Abdul3basid]] ([[User talk:Abdul3basid|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Abdul3basid|contribs]]) 01:32, 15 December 2010 (UTC) 
:Fair enough. You're not a troll, as you're obviously sincere. And thank you for being polite. That said, you haven't really given a good reason why the images should be removed. Everything stresses or offends ''somebody''; if we were to remove things on those grounds, there'd be nothing left.—[[User:Chowbok|Chowbok]] [[User talk:Chowbok|☠]] 01:52, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

:Furthermore, you haven't read [[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ]]. Please do so. The images aren't "extremely offensive", they are offensive only to you, because you decided it was so, or were told it was so. We all have a choice about what offends us. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 02:14, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the Koran does not prohibit such images (though it does prohibit worshiping them). The Koran also clearly states that what is not prohibited is permitted. So - these images are permitted here - and you are not permitted to worship them. OK? And if it makes you feel any better, I promise not to worship any of these images, either. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 05:04, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

== NPOV? ==

''"Wikipedia is not censored for the benefit of any particular group. So long as they are relevant to the article and do not violate any of Wikipedia's existing policies, nor the law of the U.S. state of Florida, where most of Wikipedia's servers are hosted"'' - So if the laws of U.S. said that you cannot depict some one, then you would abide by, but not if the laws of Islam says so? NPOV? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/131.215.220.164|131.215.220.164]] ([[User talk:131.215.220.164|talk]]) 06:59, 15 December 2010 (UTC) 
:No, what that means is that the only laws Wikipedia abides by are those that govern its servers. That's not optional, Wikipedia has no choice in the matter if it doesn't want to be sued. It doesn't follow any other laws, religious or secular. NPOV doesn't apply. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 07:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
::Oh, beyond sued. If the Foundation started hosting [[child pornography]] or some similarly illegal content, they'd be arrested and the server hardware seized. But, for the record, there are no Florida laws forbidding the depiction of particular historical figures, so we're in the clear of your hypothetical "gotcha" question. Doug is correct, by the way- NPOV refers to editorial decisions, not legal ones (WHAT we print, not what we're ALLOWED to print). --[[User talk:Kingoomieiii|King Öomie]] 07:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

:I knew if I monitored this page for enough years that someone would someday come up with an original argument for removing the images. Thanks for that. Yes, if Wikipedia were hosted in another country, the legal content would be different, but that isn't the same thing as editorial policy. I note that the Persian Wikipedia has no problem showing images of Muhammad. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 17:07, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't quite see how this is an original argument. Of course if our servers were in Iran, things would be different, but it would also be a sign of rather questionable judgement on Wikimedia's part to put its servers in under the jurisdiction of a theocratic regime. It is no coincidence that the concept of an ''[[encyclopedia]]'' is connected with the [[Age of Enlightenment]]. We should not forget that in spite of all cultural relativism, there are places where free thought is possible, and other places where it is repressed, and Wikipedia as well as all of the internet is a product of the former. If you don't like the godless libertarian west, what on earth are you doing on the internet in the first place? And I am not just talking about Islam. [[conservapedia]] is just as ironic a project. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] [[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]] 21:07, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:I meant that the argument is "original" in the sense that I hadn't seen it before, whereas all other requests to remove the images have been based on the same tired old arguments already addressed in the FAQ. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 00:04, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Wowsers, it's amazing that after all these years, editors are still popping in, calling for the deletion of the images. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 05:12, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong. I am not asking for removal of the pictures. I do agree that knowledge and art should be shared and recorded without restrictions, and if laws are to be violated for that reason then they should be violated. I am just asking for clarification whether Wikipedia should be claiming that they are completely neutral while they do not adhere to Muslim laws but adhere to U.S. laws. Muslim laws are valid anywhere in the world as long as the person being subjected to adheres to it, even in Florida. Since, Wikipedia is actively deciding not to adhere certain laws, and to adhere other ones, it should be made clear in the policies what counts as an acceptable law to wikipedia and what does not. For example, (despiting being from a Muslim family and a largely Muslim society) my mother does not adhere to laws regarding 'acceptable Muslim women clothing' because she think that law is wrong and unacceptable; but this means she am making a decision of "good or bad" and wikipedia is doing the same. My question is, what's Wikipedia's "good or bad" policy in regards to the laws they abide by? Who and how made the decision to not abide by Muslim laws, but abide by Florida laws? [for clarification, I am the same anonymous user above]

: And, by the way, before you start throwing big phrase like 'godless libertarian west' and "age of enlightenment" without knowing anything about other cultures, United States prohibited images of dead united states soldiers throughout the wars in the last ten years and web sites have been shut down for violating that law in the past. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/131.215.220.161|131.215.220.161]] ([[User talk:131.215.220.161|talk]]) 23:00, 30 December 2010 (UTC) 
::The decision to abide by US and Florida law is a practical not a ethical or moral choice. Breach of US law could result in real world repercussions including the seizure of the servers themselves. The only thing that I know of that Wikipedia really censors because of the location of the servers is child pornography. It is theoretically possible that there might be a location for the servers that would allow more freedom of speech, but I don't know where that would be. There are no laws in the US forbidding sharing pictures of dead US soldiers and they are all over the internet including websites with servers located in the US. --[[User:Daniel J. Leivick|Leivick]] ([[User talk:Daniel J. Leivick|talk]]) 23:23, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
::: My information on the images of soldiers was slightly wrong. the law was revoked in 2004 : http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2004/apr/23/Iraqandthemedia.pressandpublishing
:::: Would wikipedia have published images of dead U.S. soldiers before 2004? Probably not. But why so? What if U.S. got involved in another war and revived the ban? Would wikipedia remove the images? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/131.215.220.161|131.215.220.161]] ([[User talk:131.215.220.161|talk]]) 23:32, 30 December 2010 (UTC) 
:::::Who knows if Wikipedia would have published the images if they had been leaked? We certainly would have discussed it and I actually think we probably would have, if there was an encyclopedic purpose. There was never a law against showing these images, there was a DOD policy against releasing them which which actually happened to violate US law and the DOD was forced to share pictures taken by its own photographers. In any case showing pictures of Muhammad is both legal in the US and serves an encyclopedic purpose, so I see zero problem using them. --[[User:Daniel J. Leivick|Leivick]] ([[User talk:Daniel J. Leivick|talk]]) 23:40, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
{{outdent}}It's not that Wikipedia "chooses" to follow some laws and not others, rather WP follows ALL laws which can be legally enforced against it, and no others. After all, you don't expect Italians living in Italy to follow French law do you? Or expect Canadians at home to abide by Japanese law? Or Jews in Israel to live by [[Sharia]] law? The laws of the U.S. and Florida can be enforced because our servers are located there; Florida is our "home" so to speak, so we abide by those laws, but no others. [[User:Doc Tropics|Doc ]] [[User talk:Doc Tropics|Tropics]] 01:23, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

:I think that the point is Wikipedia isn't neutral because it must follow US laws. Point taken. Wikipedia is neutral when neutrality doesn't conflict with US (and Florida) laws. We aren't going to start violating US laws or move our servers to a lawless country in order to maintain some sort of global neutrality. Make a note of that on the relevant Five Pillars page and move on. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 05:01, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

== Message from 175.106.60.185 ==
Come-on dear! there is a big difference between a Christian and Christianity and big difference between a Muslim and Islam. If you want to know the position of any religion about anything you have to refer to the Scriptures. Now according to the Quran and Hadith(Teachings of the Prophet P.B.U.H) we cannot draw the pictures of our Prophet and the prominent companions of the Prophet P.B.U.H.

There are many wrong things that some Muslims are doing, but we cannot associate it to Islam.

My request is that If wikipedia can bring any quotation from Quran or Teachings of our Prophet P.B.U.H, then you can put any pictures, but there is no quotation that allows those pictures on that page. For us Muslims to draw picture of Prophets is a Bigger Sin.

Please wikipedians, Anything in Wikipedia is brought through a reference. You guys cannot put pictures of people without their permission. Do you guys have any reference from our Quran and Hadith that gives you permission to put fake pictures of our Prophet?

I like wikipedia, I have tried my best to help wikipedia not by posting or editing here but some other ways, It is all because Wikipedia's policy is neutral, so does neutral mean putting fake pictures of our Prophet P.B.U.H. I am very sorry, why are you hurting our feelings and Ideology.

To put the picture of an actor or actress, you have to get permission or find free pictures of him or her, but Muhammad P.B.U.H is the Prophet of a more than Billion muslims, almost all muslims are protesting, but can you please give a reference to prove posting such fake pictures.

Thanks with a hope that wikipedians will not hurt our feelings anymore.... —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/175.106.60.185|175.106.60.185]] ([[User talk:175.106.60.185|talk]]) 22:56, 22 January 2011 (UTC) 
:I moved your message down here. Since you made a lot of lines, I assumed it was meant to be a separate entry. Sorry if it was indeed meant to be attached to the text it was posted below.

:Anyway, this is an article about Muhammed as a person, with a lot of details on the religious aspect of him as a historical figure, though there is a page that deals with the [[Muhammad in Islam|Islamic account of Muhammed]]. All pages on Wikipedia must be written from a secular point of view, that is to say that you will not find critical information on cults/religions or other kinds of businesses censored on behalf of the people/organisation that the article is about. We simply don't need their permission, because if we did, then Wikipedia would be worthless as each article would be what the subjects of the article wanted it to be. An article on Scientology ould be exclusively about the crimes of psychiatry and all the good things about [[L Ron Hubbard]], an article on slavery would conform to the viewpoint of [[Neo-confederate|Neo-Confederates]], and so on, so on. As such, Wikipedia is not subject to social norms, religious dogma, or censorship on behalf of the subject of the article. Now, that is not to say in the least that Muslims cannot edit Islamic articles, or Scientologists Scientilogy-related articles. The whole idea is to source the info to [[WP:V|reliable third-party sources]]. If the images' origins were unknown, their authors unknown, and the pictures not historically/culturally significant, then you would be well within your right to question their inclusion.

:In this particular case, neutrality means that we can't submit to religious pressure because Wikipedia is a [[secularism|secular]] project; religious norms and values have no power here. It doesn't matter if the paintings are not accurate, because they tell a lot about how Muhammed was viewed artistically by the Ottomans, the Persians, and even the Russians(drawing on origins of the pictures in this article). The Jesus article has images of Jesus, too, and we know Jesus was not white as he's portrayed, and yet, those images still have cultural and historical value. As far as getting permission goes -- Paintings are not copyrighted as far as I understand. The images in this article have been obtained from their respective sources with legal permission. Other than that, there's something called fair use that applies here -- Images can be used to illustrate the subject matter, but I'm not very knowledgeable on this particular subject; I try to stay out of anything copyright-related. I hope I answered your question or at least clarified things a bit. [[User:Eik Corell|Eik Corell]] ([[User talk:Eik Corell|talk]]) 00:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

::The Quran does not prohibit making images of Muhammad, so I find it sad that someone who is passionate about their faith would dare change even a word of their holy book. The Quran does say very clearly "that which is not forbidden is permitted". So yes, it's permitted to make images - especially for teaching. Isn't that what Muhammad wanted - teaching? It is, of course, forbidden to worship images - any images, so please take care not to worship any of the images you might see here (if you're Muslim). And the Hadith? No one should give a hadith precedence over the Quran. Also note that not all Muslim sects follow all hadiths - they pick and choose. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 15:39, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

:::I've said it before and I'll say it again: Singling out Muhammad for special treatment is a form of idolatry. And to my understanding, idolatry ''is'' prohibited by the Qur'an. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 23:35, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
::::Keep in mind that the Quran does single out Muhammad for special treatment in a couple of places. For example, unlike any other man, the Quran made it clear that absolutely no one was permitted to marry one of his wives after he died. So in that sense, the Quran elevated Muhammad to something above a man. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 02:06, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
::::: Amatulić, the only special treatment I see is maintaining images that convey wrong information and violate [[WP:DUE]], and it's only happening in this article. Otherwise, could you name one other article about an important ''historical'' figure that contains multiple and historically insignificant images that show him/her as a person from 1000 years after the fact? '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 19:38, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
::::: How are the images historically insignificant? -- [[User:Doctorx0079|Doctorx0079]] ([[User talk:Doctorx0079|talk]]) 22:40, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

== Biggest Blasphamy against Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) on Wikipedia ==

the images shown in this article come in the issue of blasphemy please remove the images which is someones imagination not the reality. — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Fahadaziz85|Fahadaziz85]] ([[User talk:Fahadaziz85|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Fahadaziz85|contribs]]) 14:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 
:There's a link at the top of the page that explains why those pictures are there--also, there is a very helpful explanation there about how you can change a setting in your preferences so that you will not need to see the images. [[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian]] ([[User talk:Qwyrxian|talk]]) 15:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Wikipedians, what is going on.. Please remove the pictures of the cartoon guy on this article. They are not our beloved Prophet P.B.U.H. Why do you guys want the muslim countries to ban Wikipedia. Please remove the pictures, please! — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Warsaji|Warsaji]] ([[User talk:Warsaji|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Warsaji|contribs]]) 18:38, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 
:There are no cartoons on this pag, only historical images, some of which were made by muslims. [[User:Jarkeld|Jarkeld]] ([[User talk:Jarkeld|talk]]) 20:23, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
::It seems that calling the paintings "cartoons" is the new talking point of those who wish to force Wikipedia to remove the pictures of Muhammad. In the past month or two there have been multiple individuals using almost identical language to put forth a lame new "cartoon" angle to this whole brouhaha. Referring to the the painted representations of Muhammad that are featured in this article as cartoons is akin to claiming South Park's depiction of Jesus Christ is no different than Rembrandt's "The Storm on the Sea of Galilee"; a "Bart Simpson as Mozart" picture linked above is used in a particularly stupid attempt to make such an asinine comparison. Of course it should come as no surprise that Muslims are trying to force everyone else to adhere to the norms of their religion. After all that is THE hallmark of modern-day Islam. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/74.141.154.97|74.141.154.97]] ([[User talk:74.141.154.97|talk]]) 18:36, 25 February 2011 (UTC) 

::: They are ''illustrations'', not paintings. Comparing them to famous paintings is rather off mark. Furthermore, [[Siyer-i Nebi]] was a book that was written for didactic purposes, using a simple and direct language, and with the intention of emphasizing basic values, like honesty and courage. It was probably intended for a younger audience, perhaps for teaching young and prospective Sultans (a very important factor in Ottoman court). We also know that the team of painters who illustrated the book (although their individual identities have been disputed) were famous for illustrating simple romances. Now, considering the target audience of this book, and other low-quality features, like showing Muhammad in contemporary Ottoman settings, it doesn't seem far fetched to compare them to cartoons, and certainly they are not useful or informative in the context of ''this'' article (which is the main point that others have continually failed to address). '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 09:26, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Come-on dear! there is a big difference between a Christian and Christianity and big difference between a Muslim and Islam. If you want to know the position of any religion about anything you have to refer to the Scriptures. Now according to the Quran and Hadith(Teachings of the Prophet P.B.U.H) we cannot draw the pictures of our Prophet and the prominent companions of the Prophet P.B.U.H.

There are many wrong things that some Muslims are doing, but we cannot associate it to Islam.

My request is that If wikipedia can bring any quotation from Quran or Teachings of our Prophet P.B.U.H, then you can put any pictures, but there is no quotation that allows those pictures on that page. For us Muslims to draw picture of Prophets is a Bigger Sin.

Please wikipedians, Anything in Wikipedia is brought through a reference. You guys cannot put pictures of people without their permission. Do you guys have any reference from our Quran and Hadith that gives you permission to put fake pictures of our Prophet?

I like wikipedia, I have tried my best to help wikipedia not by posting or editing here but some other ways, It is all because Wikipedia's policy is neutral, so does neutral mean putting fake pictures of our Prophet P.B.U.H. I am very sorry, why are you hurting our feelings and Ideology.

To put the picture of an actor or actress, you have to get permission or find free pictures of him or her, but Muhammad P.B.U.H is the Prophet of a more than Billion muslims, almost all muslims are protesting, but can you please give a reference to prove posting such fake pictures.

Thanks with a hope that wikipedians will not hurt our feelings anymore.... —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/175.106.60.185|175.106.60.185]] ([[User talk:175.106.60.185|talk]]) 22:22, 22 January 2011 (UTC) 

...if as you say, you are a regular Wikipedia user, you will already know the answer and should not be surprised. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 23:00, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

If there is any "blasphemy against Islam" here, it is on the part of the "Muslims" who are turning Muhammad into an object of religious taboo and worship. If you know anything about Islam and Muhammad's teachings, you would realize that he did ''not'' want to be worshipped as a deity. That honour was to be reserved for God alone. The entire reason depictions of Muhammad were discouraged was to prevent people from creating idols of the prophet and worshipping them.

All this prancing about with the worship of Muhammad and the religious taboos associated with him is simply poor Islam. You want to be a Muslim, please go and do your homework and learn what the message of Muhammad was in the first place. --[[User:Dbachmann|dab]] [[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]] 11:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

:That echoes something I've been wanting to say for a while. The prohibition against images is, as I understand it, intended to prevent idolatry. However, by singling out Muhammad for special treatment, Muslims are, in fact, practicing idolatry already, so the presence of these images has nothing to do with the "idolatry" argument.. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 17:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

:: My understanding of the Muslim argument goes like this: if you're not allowed to spread false information about Muhammad in verbal form, then you shouldn't be allowed to do it in image form. The keyword here is ''conveying false information about Muhammad'', and almost every image in this article testifies to this (e.g., angles being female contrary to the teachings of Qur'an, Muhammad belonging to Chinese-Mongolian tradition contrary to primary sources stating he was an Arab, Kaaba and surroundings shown in Ottoman settings as opposed to 7th-century Arabia, etc). It is thus blasphemy because the closer you examine those images the less you learn about Muhammad and his teachings. '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 21:29, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

:::The same argument can be made about any image of Jesus (e.g. false information, always portrayed as Caucasian, etc.). And yet, there's a fundamental difference: Christians seem to recognize that depictions of Jesus are simply depictions, and they recognize depictions that are intended as respectful. The Muslims that come here to complain evidently don't have that understanding. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 21:52, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

:::: I wasn't really presenting an argument. I was only stating that some Muslims think blasphemy is a form of misinformation, which was not considered by you or dab (to put it bluntly, your claims that the prohibition "just" intended to prevent idolatry is false). As for the Jesus comparison, you shouldn't ignore the fact the images of Jesus are notable, had religious functions, and used to decorate churches throughout history. These facts should explain why Christians are more used to seeing images in [[Jesus]]. Conversely, images of Muhammad are neither notable nor historically significant. According to a source I cited, they were extremely rare throughout history that some historians thought they did not even exist. If you ignore notability, ignore reliable sources, and keep repeating false claims about blasphemy in Islam, people will complain and ask for those images to be removed or reduced. Also, most of them were drawn by artists not known to have been Muslims (contrary to what the FAQ claims). So the FAQ needs to change too. All in all, these are valid reasons to complain about, and none of which are applicable to other articles. '''[[User:Wiqi55|Wiqi]]'''x'''[[User talk:Wiqi55|talk]]''' 00:56, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

== Anyone against pictures of Muhammad...sign here ==

Here's an idea. Rather than continually getting new threads from those opposed to pictures of Muhammad appearing in this article, why don't those opposed to the pictures just put their request here. It can then just be archived regularly.
For these people...the answer is 'no'. For the reasons why, please look at the box at the top of this page with this in it: [[Image:Stop hand.svg|60px]] [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 23:10, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

SIGN HERE:

:That won't stop them from making requests. There's already a number of online petitions about Muhammad images in this article. We ignore them too. It would be simpler just to direct people there. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 23:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
::...and consensus can always change. There may be a valid reason someone has for removing them.--[[User:Adamfinmo|Adam in MO]] [[User talk:Adamfinmo|Talk]] 03:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

:::Quite so. Images have been removed from this article in the past for valid reasons. See, for example, [[Talk:Muhammad/images/Archive 17#Proposed removal of deliberately provocative images]]. Most of the time, however, invalid reasons are proposed, over and over ad nauseam, by Muslims who are personally offended because they were taught to be offended. [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]] and other arguments are amply addressed in [[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ]]. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 06:16, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I 100% agree with you but, if the disclaimer at the top won't stop them than neither will this. This talk page, the disclaimer and the FAQ are as good as it will get.--[[User:Adamfinmo|Adam in MO]] [[User talk:Adamfinmo|Talk]] 00:19, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

== Complain ==

Muhammad's (PBUH) Pictures should be removed as these are not allowed According to Islam —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/119.152.74.25|119.152.74.25]] ([[User talk:119.152.74.25|talk]]) 04:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC) 
:See above, thanks. [[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian]] ([[User talk:Qwyrxian|talk]]) 05:54, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

== Edit request from 2.120.26.236, 3 February 2011 ==
remove these pictures now
{{tl|edit semi-protected}}

The article about Muhammad has images where he is shown in the pictures. This is blasphemy and in Islam we are strictly against any images to be made about our Prophet. We find it extremely offensive and such acts cannot be tolerated therefore dear respected user, please take off these images immediately and change it to images of Masjid al-Haram (situated in Makkah), or even Masjid al-Aqsa instead of fake images of our beloved Prophet. Thank you for your sincere attention.


[[Special:Contributions/2.120.26.236|2.120.26.236]] ([[User talk:2.120.26.236|talk]]) 11:35, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

{{notdone}} Discussed at length in past. See notice at top of this page. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 11:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
:Is there an organized campaign to fill up this page with these requests? These editors seem unwilling to read the notices before posting. It's as if they are blindly following orders.- [[User:Doctorx0079|Doctorx0079]] ([[User talk:Doctorx0079|talk]]) 23:02, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::I doubt it - it's not very 'organized' if it is. I think it's just a strongly held view. They have prompted me to think about the choice/no. of images in the article. The focus has been on why the pics should not be removed rather why they are there. I've skimmed through the archives and couldn't track down why these particular choices were made. Does anyone who was involved at the time remember? It does occur to me that the choice of the 5 Ilkhanid and Ottoman pictures and the Russian painting may be a little... problematic. It seems to me that, as a generality, there would be three reasons to chose an image: to show what the person actually looked like (not applicable); to show what they might have looked like - typical style of dress etc (not applicable to most, as Ottoman/Ilkhanid styles are shown - perhaps applies to the Russian paninting); and to show what the prevalent cultural image of that person is, eg as with [[Jesus]] (mostly not applicable - since by definition there is no cultural image in general. The images shown are representative of 2 relatively narror cultural sources). It's made me wonder whether it should be reduced to say one Ilkhanid or Ottoman picture and the Russian picture, otherwise it's making me think it is a little 'undue'. But I'd be interested if someone could point out where this is discussed in the archive. Thanks. 14:36, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
:::I would also like to see links to the discussion. Sometimes it feels like we keep them just to to prove [[WP:NOTCENSORED|we're not censored]]. I'm not saying we should take them down, but I'd like to here the justification for keeping them specifically in this article, especially since, as DeCausa notes, they don't all seem necessary. On the other hand, as long as we have even a single picture here, I imagine we'll get the same complaints, so it's not like taking some down will solve the problem. [[User:Qwyrxian|Qwyrxian]] ([[User talk:Qwyrxian|talk]]) 03:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

::::There are multiple depictions in the article for the same reason there are multiple depictions of [[Jesus]] in the article about him. No one sat down with Muhammad or Jesus, drew his portrait then had him sign off on it. None of the images of either are considered to be completely faithful physical depictions. They do however give us important information as to how he has been represented by a variety of different cultures in different time periods.

::::The only reason images should ever be removed of either is if they are giving a misleadingly disproportionate weight to a particular artist or culture's representation. There are thousands of pictures of Jesus. If you picked all of the pictures of him drawn as a Native American from some obscure American artist in the 20th Century, that would be misleading and clearly not an accurate portrayal of how he has been represented over the course of history. There aren't many images of Muhammad, so there is more justification in taking them from a limited number of sources. If anything could improve the article it would actually be ''more'' pictures giving a broader view of how he has been portrayed in various significant populations.

::::One thing that seems to be getting ignored here is that the number of protests against the inclusion of these images indicates that they are considered representative of Muhammad to even the current Muslim community. None of the captions say "This is Muhammad." They say this is a depiction of him in such and such painting from such and such culture. Given that, the only possible argument for blasphemy is that the images actually ''do'' represent him in the view of the offended, which is their purpose.. to show how he has been typically represented.

::::Of course see also [[Talk:Muhammad/FAQ]] which covers most of this in more detail.
--[[Special:Contributions/184.232.188.80|184.232.188.80]] ([[User talk:184.232.188.80|talk]]) 23:40, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

:::::Forget 'blasphemy', that's irrelevant to my point - and, no, the FAQ doesn't cover this in any sort of detail. And I think you've missed the point entirely - this issue isn't about whether the images actualy look like Muhammad. Regarding Jesus, you say "They do however give us important information as to how he has been represented by a variety of different cultures in different time periods." This is NOT what the images of Muhammad in this article give us. The analogy you give of pictures of Jesus "as a Native American from some obscure American artist in the 20th Century" is actually, ironically, quite close I think to what we have here. A much more representative selection of 'images' of Muhammad would actually be his name in calligraphy, as in the infobox. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 01:01, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

== images ==

dont you think that you should have an image of Muhammad at the top? every other biography page has one.
--[[Special:Contributions/27.3.102.174|27.3.102.174]] ([[User talk:27.3.102.174|talk]]) 09:04, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
:Absolutely. Do you have a photo you can share? [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 13:57, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Use one of the pictures that are at the bottom of the page. --[[Special:Contributions/27.3.102.174|27.3.102.174]] ([[User talk:27.3.102.174|talk]]) 11:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
:Biographical articles use an image at the top of the article when a likeness exists. In this case, no likeness exists. [[User:Rklawton|Rklawton]] ([[User talk:Rklawton|talk]]) 15:24, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
If that's true the why did you say "Absolutely. Do
You have a photo you can share?" and now you come up with another stupid reason... --[[Special:Contributions/27.3.102.174|27.3.102.174]] ([[User talk:27.3.102.174|talk]]) 09:27, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
:It was a sarcastic was of saying "Only photos go at the top of a biography". I highly doubt you (or anyone) has a [[photograph]] of Muhammad. --[[User talk:Kingoomieiii|King Öomie]] 14:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
::No, we put drawings and other depictions at the top wherever we have them. In short, just about everyone who predates the age of photography. The only reason there is no such depiction at the top of this article is as a small nod to Muslims who oppose using images of Muhammad. We won't censor the article by removing all such depictions, but it was decided some time ago to editorially arrange them in this fashion. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 15:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
:::'It offends people', is a weak excuse for not having a picture at the top. Check the [[Jesus]] article, that subject's got a picture at the top. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 23:40, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I think that it is (or should be) more than a "nod to Muslims". I'm increasingly coming to the view that these images are somewhat problematic and that focusing the argument on [[WP:NOTCENSORED]] (bacause of the Muslim reaction) has stunted a "normal" discussion on the images value. I posted on this in an earlier thread but that didn't really go anywhere. I'll cut and paste the main point: "It seems to me that, as a generality, there would be three reasons to chose an image: to show what the person actually looked like (not applicable); to show what they might have looked like - typical style of dress etc (not applicable to most, as Ottoman/Ilkhanid styles are shown - perhaps applies to the Russian paninting); and to show what the prevalent cultural image of that person is, eg as with [[Jesus]] (mostly not applicable - since by definition there is no cultural image in general. The images shown are representative of 2 relatively narror cultural sources)." I think the representation of Muhammad in calligraphy in the infobox actually satisfies the third justification of an "image" since that is the overwhelmingly preponderent way of representing him. There's a real discussion to be had on this but it's been drowned out by the "Islamic" v. "not censored" positions. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 09:53, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

:I've re-posted this on the main Talk page[[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 11:25, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
::And it doesn't belong there. Image discussions belong on this page, so cross posting will serve only to split the discussion unnecessarily. And sorry, but we have had a "normal" discussion on the value of the images. We have, in fact, had several that are littered throughout the archives. In fact, every single point you have raised has been discussed repeatedly, and rejected repeatedly. [[User:Resolute|Reso]][[User Talk:Resolute|lute]] 16:27, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
:::Firstly,no need to be so aggressive. I'm asking the question more than anything. Secondly, I posted above asking where in archives this was discussed (having looked and found only a handful of brief superficial postings on that particular aspect), and no one (including you) had the courtesy to reply. Thirdly, I don't know why you bothered to post such a message without identifying where in the archive that discussion was held - your posting was pointless. Fourthly, I don't care how many times it was discussed before, it's not been discussed lately and consensus can change. So, all in all your reply was a waste of your time to write and my time to read. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 18:16, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
::::'It might offend people', is never a good reason for any type of censurship. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 23:42, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
:::::And your point is ...? The article has images of Muhammad. There is no representative image of Muhammad in existence that would be appropriate for the top of the article, because historical images of Muhammad are rare. It makes sense for the most common pictorial representation (in this case, calligraphic) be shown at the top of the article. The fact that Muslims would be somehow less offended by showing pictures of Muhammad further down the article is really irrelevant. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 00:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
::::::There should be an image at the top. [[William the Conquerer]], [[Jesus]], [[Pope Leo I]] etc etc, have theirs at the top of their respective articles. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 00:26, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:::::::[[WP:OTHERSTUFF]] isn't a valid argument. And this article does have an image at the top. See my previous comment. If you want an actual depiction of Muhammad there, you should offer a better reason than "other articles have it". ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] ([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]]) 04:39, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
::::::::Just pointing out that ''"it might offend"'', is a poor excuse. [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 05:26, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
:::::::::The picture at the top of any biographical article should be a symbol people use to the person with. In [[George Washington]]'s case, the picture used is an accurate portrait of him. In Jesus' case, the picture is a symbolic image that is not accurate, but still relevant since it is an extremely common image of Jesus. Unlike with Jesus, there is no common image people associate Mohammed with, except for perhaps his name. At least, that calligraphy of Mohammed's name is much more recognizable than any of the relatively unknown caricatures in this article. And by the way, [[WP:NOTCENSORED]] exists so that no content is removed for the sole reason of being offensive. The purpose of that rule is to make sure information is preserved, not to deliberately offend people. Everyone already knows offensive stuff is allowed on Wikipedia; you don't need to explain that. Instead give actual ''reasons'' why changing the image to one of Mohammed would be helpful. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 21:47, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Middle East

2010-12-03T22:28:19Z

Parthian Scribe: armenian is spoken throughout the many armenian communities in the middle east, not just armenia

{{pp-semi-protected|small=yes}}
<div style="float: right; margin: 0 0 1em 2em; width: 20em; text-align: right; font-size: 0.86em; font-family: lucida grande, sans-serif; line-height: normal;">
<div style="border: 1px solid #ccd2d9; background: #f0f6fa; text-align: left; padding: 0.5em 1em; text-align: center;">
<big>'''Middle East'''</big>
<div class="center">
</div>[[Image:Middle east graphic 2003.jpg|190px|Middle East]]
{| style="background:none; text-align:left; table-layout:auto; border-collapse:collapse; padding:0; font-size:100%;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
! style="border-top: solid 1px #ccd2d9; padding: 0.4em 1em 0.4em 0; vertical-align: top; text-align: left;" | Countries
| style="border-top: 1px #ccd2d9; padding: 0.4em 1em 0.4em 0; vertical-align: top" | 18 or 38
|-

! style="border-top: solid 1px #ccd2d9; padding: 0.4em 1em 0.4em 0; vertical-align: top; text-align: left;" | Languages
| style="border-top: solid 1px #ccd2d9; padding: 0.4em 1em 0.4em 0; vertical-align: top" |'''Middle East:''' [[Arabic language|Arabic]], [[Assyrian Neo-Aramaic|Aramaic]], [[Armenian language|Armenian]], [[Azerbaijani language|Azerbaijani]], [[French language|French]], [[Greek language|Greek]], [[Hebrew language|Hebrew]], [[Kurdish language|Kurdish]], [[Persian language|Persian]], [[Turkish language|Turkish]] '''Greater Middle East:''' [[Arabic language|Arabic]], [[Armenian language|Armenian]], [[Azerbaijani language|Azerbaijani]], [[Balochi language|Balochi]], [[Dari (Eastern Persian)|Dari]], [[French language|French]], [[Greek language|Greek]], [[Georgian language|Georgian]], [[Hebrew language|Hebrew]], [[Kurdish language|Kurdish]], [[Pashtun language|Pashtun]], [[Persian language|Persian]], [[Punjabi language|Punjabi]], [[Sindhi language|Sindhi]], [[Somali language|Somali]], [[Tigrinya language|Tigrinya]], [[Turkish language|Turkish]], [[Urdu]]
|-
! style="border-top: solid 1px #ccd2d9; padding: 0.4em 1em 0.4em 0; vertical-align: top; text-align: left;" | Time Zones
| style="border-top: solid 1px #ccd2d9; padding: 0.4em 1em 0.4em 0; vertical-align: top" | UTC +8:00 (Tibet) to UTC +3:30 (Iran)
|-
! style="border-top: solid 1px #ccd2d9; padding: 0.4em 1em 0.4em 0; vertical-align: top; text-align: left;" | Largest Cities
| style="border-top: solid 1px #ccd2d9; padding: 0.4em 1em 0.4em 0; vertical-align: top" |In rank order: [[Cairo]], [[Istanbul]], [[Tehran]], [[Baghdad]], [[Riyadh]], [[Ankara]], [[Jeddah]]
|}
</div>
</div>
{{redirect|The Middle East|other meanings|Middle East (disambiguation)}}
{{See also|Western Asia}}

The '''Middle East''' (from a colonial European perspective)<ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/ch08/ch08_sec050.html|title= 8 : Names and Terms: Chapter Contents»Names of Places»Parts of the World |accessdate= 2009-02-20 |work= The Chicago Manual of Style|year=2009 }}</ref> is a [[region]] that encompasses [[Western Asia]] and [[North Africa]]. In some contexts, particularly in the United States, the term has recently been expanded in usage to sometimes include [[Afghanistan]] and [[Pakistan]], the [[Caucasus]] and [[Central Asia]], and [[North Africa]]. It's often used as a synonym for [[Near East]], in opposition to [[Far East]]. The corresponding adjective is ''Middle-Eastern'' and the derived noun is ''Middle-Easterner''.

The [[history of the Middle East]] dates back to [[Ancient Near East|ancient times]], and throughout its history, the Middle East has been a major centre of world affairs. When discussing ancient history, however, the term Near East is more commonly used. The Middle East is also the historical origin of major religions such as [[Judaism]], [[Christianity]], [[Islam]] and [[Baha'i Faith]]. The Middle East generally has an [[arid]] and hot climate, with several major rivers providing for [[irrigation]] to support [[agriculture]] in limited areas. Many countries located around the [[Persian Gulf]] have large quantities of [[crude oil]]. In modern times the Middle East remains a strategically, economically, politically, culturally and religiously sensitive region. The Middle East expected economic growth rate is at about 4.1% for 2010 and 5.1% in 2011.<ref>[http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/02/pdf/c2.pdf IMF WEO Oct. 2010] Retrieved 15-10-2010</ref>

==Etymology==
The term "Middle East" may have originated in the 1850s in the British [[India Office]].<ref>Beaumont (1988), p. 16</ref> However, it became more widely known when [[United States|American]] naval strategist [[Alfred Thayer Mahan]] used the term in 1902<ref>{{cite journal |author=Koppes, C.R. |title=Captain Mahan, General Gordon and the origin of the term "Middle East" |journal=Middle East Studies |volume=12 |pages=95–98 |year=1976 |doi=10.1080/00263207608700307}}</ref> to 'designate the area between Arabia and India'.<ref>{{cite book |author=Lewis, Bernard |title=The Middle East and the West |year=1965|page=9}}</ref><ref>{{cite book |author=Fromkin, David |title=A Peace to end all Peace |year=1989|page=224}}</ref> During this time the [[British Empire|British]] and [[Russian Empire]]s were vying for influence in [[Central Asia]], a rivalry which would become known as [[The Great Game]]. Mahan realized not only the strategic importance of the region, but also of its center, the [[Persian Gulf]].<ref>Melman, Billie. [http://cco.cambridge.org/extract?id=ccol052178140x_CCOL052178140XA010 The Cambridge Companion to Travel Writing: 6 The Middle East / Arabia], Cambridge Collections Online. Retrieved January 8, 2006.</ref><ref>Palmer, Michael A. ''Guardians of the Persian Gulf: A History of America's Expanding Role in the Persian Gulf, 1833-1992.'' New York: The Free Press, 1992. ISBN 0-02-923843-9 p. 12-13.</ref> He labeled the area surrounding the Persian Gulf as the Middle East, and said that after the [[Suez Canal]], it was the most important passage for Britain to control in order to keep the Russians from advancing towards [[British Raj|British India]].<ref>Laciner, Dr. Sedat. "[http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=2117 Is There a Place Called ‘the Middle East’?]", ''The Journal of Turkish Weekly]", June 2, 2006. Retrieved January 10, 2007.</ref> Mahan first used the term in his article "The Persian Gulf and International Relations," published in September 1902 in the ''[[National Review (London)|National Review]]'', a British journal.


<blockquote>The Middle East, if I may adopt a term which I have not seen, will some day need its Malta, as well as its Gibraltar; it does not follow that either will be in the Persian Gulf. Naval force has the quality of mobility which carries with it the privilege of temporary absences; but it needs to find on every scene of operation established bases of refit, of supply, and in case of disaster, of security. The British Navy should have the facility to concentrate in force if occasion arise, about Aden, India, and the Persian Gulf.<ref>Adelson (1995), p. 22-23</ref></blockquote>

Mahan's article was reprinted in ''[[The Times]]'' and followed in October by a 20 article series entitled "The Middle Eastern Question," written by Sir [[Ignatius Valentine Chirol]]. During this series, Sir Ignatius expanded the definition of ''Middle East'' to include "those regions of Asia which extend to the borders of [[India]] or command the approaches to India."<ref>Adelson (1995), p. 24</ref> After the series ended in 1903, ''The Times'' removed quotation marks from subsequent uses of the term.<ref>Adelson (1995), p. 26</ref>

Until [[World War II]], it was customary to refer to areas centered around [[Turkey]] and the eastern shore of the Mediterranean as the "[[Near East]]", while the "[[Far East]]" centered on [[China]],<ref name="davison">{{cite journal |author=Davison, Roderic H. |title=Where is the Middle East? |journal=Foreign Affairs |volume=38 |pages=665–675 |year=1960}}</ref> and the Middle East then meant the area from [[Mesopotamia]] to [[Myanmar|Burma]], namely the area between the Near East and the Far East.{{Citation needed|date=November 2008}} In the late 1930s, the British established the [[Middle East Command]], which was based in [[Cairo]], for its military forces in the region. After that time, the term "Middle East" gained broader usage in Europe and the United States, with the [[Middle East Institute]] founded in [[Washington, D.C.]] in 1946, among other usage.<ref>{{cite book |author=Held, Colbert C. |title=Middle East Patterns: Places, Peoples, and Politics |publisher=Westview Press |year=2000 |page=7}}</ref>

===Criticism and usage===
[[File:Greater Middle East (orthographic projection).svg|300px|thumb|{{legend|#346733|Traditional definition of the Middle East}}
{{legend|#008000|G8 definition of the [[Greater Middle East]]}}
{{legend|#5FD35F|[[Central Asia]] (sometimes associated with the Greater Middle East)}}]]
Many have criticized the term ''Middle East'' due to its implicit [[Eurocentrism]].<ref>{{cite web |author=Shohat, Ella |title=Redrawing American Cartographies of Asia |url= http://commposite.uqam.ca/videaz/docs/elshen.html |publisher=City University of New York |accessdate=2007-01-12}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |author=Hanafi, Hassan |title=The Middle East, in whose world? |url=http://www.smi.uib.no/pao/hanafi.html |publisher=Nordic Society for Middle Eastern Studies |accessdate=2007-01-12}}</ref> In contemporary English-language academic & media venues, the term is used by both Europeans and non-Europeans.

The description ''Middle'' has also led to some confusion over changing definitions. Before the [[World War I|First World War]], "Near East" was used in English to refer to the [[Balkans]] and the [[Ottoman Empire]], while "Middle East" referred to [[Iran]], [[Afghanistan]], and Central Asia, [[Turkestan]], and the [[Caucasus]]. In contrast, "Far East" referred to the countries of [[East Asia]] (e.g. China, Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, etc.). Some critics usually advise using an alternative term, such as "[[Western Asia]]", which is the official designation of the [[UN]].

With the disappearance of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, "Near East" largely fell out of common use in English, while "Middle East" came to be applied to the re-emerging countries of the [[Islamic world]]. However, the usage of "Near East" was retained by a variety of academic disciplines, including [[archaeology]] and [[ancient history]], where it describes an area identical to the term ''Middle East'', which is not used by these disciplines (see [[Ancient Near East]]).

The first official use of the term "Middle East" by the [[Federal government of the United States|United States government]] was in the 1957 [[Eisenhower Doctrine]], which pertained to the [[Suez Crisis]]. Secretary of State [[John Foster Dulles]] defined the Middle East as "the area lying between and including [[Libya]] on the west and [[Pakistan]] on the east, [[Syria]] and [[Iraq]] on the North and the Arabian peninsula to the south, plus the [[Sudan]] and [[Ethiopia]]."<ref name="davison"/> In 1958, the [[United States Department of State|State Department]] explained that the terms "[[Near East]]" and "Middle East" were interchangeable, and defined the region as including only [[Egypt]], [[Syria]], [[Israel]], [[Lebanon]], [[Jordan]], [[Iraq]], [[Saudi Arabia]], [[Kuwait]], [[Bahrain]], and [[Qatar]].<ref>{{cite news |title='Near East' is Mideast, Washington Explains |url=http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70E10FC3D59127A93C6A81783D85F4C8585F9&scp=1&sq='Near%20East'%20is%20Mideast,%20Washington%20Explains&st=cse |publisher=The New York Times |date=1958-08-14 |accessdate=2009-01-25}}</ref>

The [[Associated Press]] Stylebook says that Near East formerly referred to the farther west countries while Middle East referred to the eastern ones, but that now they are synonymous. It instructs:
<blockquote>Use ''Middle East'' unless ''Near East'' is used by a source in a story. ''Mideast'' is also acceptable, but ''Middle East'' is preferred.<ref>Goldstein, Norm. ''The Associated Press Stylebook and Briefing on Media Law''. New York: Basic Books, 2004. ISBN 0-465-00488-1 p. 156</ref></blockquote>

At the [[United Nations]], the numerous documents and resolutions about the Middle East are in fact concerned with the [[Arab–Israeli conflict]], in particular the [[Israeli–Palestinian conflict]], and, therefore, with the four states of the [[Levant]]. The term Near East is occasionally heard at the UN when referring to this region.

===Translations===
There are terms similar to ''Near East'' and ''Middle East'' in other European languages, but since it is a relative description, the meanings depend on the country and are different from the English terms generally. In [[German language|German]] the term ''[[:de:Naher Osten|Naher Osten]]'' (Near East) is still in common use (nowadays the term ''Mittlerer Osten'' is more and more common in press texts translated from English sources, albeit having a distinct meaning) and in [[Russian language|Russian]] [[:ru:Ближний Восток|Ближний Восток]] or ''Blizhniy Vostok'', [[Bulgarian language|Bulgarian]] [[:bg:Близък Изток|Близкия Изток]], [[Polish language|Polish]] ''[[:pl:Bliski Wschód|Bliski Wschód]]'' or [[Croatian language|Croatian]] ''[[:hr:Bliski istok|Bliski istok]]'' (meaning ''Near East'' in all the four Slavic languages) remains as the only appropriate term for the region. However, some languages do have "Middle East" equivalents, such as the [[French language|French]] [[:fr:Moyen-Orient|Moyen-Orient]], [[Swedish language|Swedish]] [[:sv:Mellanöstern|Mellanöstern]], [[Spanish language|Spanish]] [[:es:Oriente Medio|Oriente Medio or Medio Oriente]], and the [[Italian language|Italian]] [[:it:Medio Oriente|Medio Oriente]].<ref>In Italian, the expression "Vicino Oriente" (Near East) was also widely used to refer to Turkey, and ''Estremo Oriente'' (Far East or Extreme East) to refer to all of Asia east of Middle East</ref>

Perhaps due to the influence of the Western press, the Arabic equivalent of ''Middle East'', الشرق الأوسط‬ (''ash-sharq-l-awsat''), has become standard usage in the mainstream Arabic press, comprehending the same meaning as the term “Middle East” in North American and Western European usage. The designation, ''[[Mashriq]]'', also from the Arabic root for ''east'', also denotes a variously defined region around the [[Levant]], the eastern part of the Arabic-speaking world (as opposed to the ''[[Maghreb]]'', the western part).<ref>{{cite book |author=Anderson, Ewan W., William Bayne Fisher |title=The Middle East: Geography and Geopolitics |publisher=Routledge |year=2000 |pages=12–13}}</ref> The [[Persian language|Persian]] equivalent for Middle East is خاورمیانه (''Khāvarmiyāneh'').

==Territories and regions==
===Traditional definition of the Middle East===

{| border="1" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border:1px solid #aaa; border-collapse:collapse; font-size:90%;width:100%;"
|- style="background:#ececec;"
!rowspan="2"| [[Country]], with [[flag]]
!colspan="2"| [[List of countries by area|Area]]
!rowspan="2"| [[List of countries by population|Population]]
!colspan="2"| [[List of countries by population density|Density]]
!rowspan="2"| [[Capital (political)|Capital]]
!rowspan="2"| [[Gross domestic product|GDP]] (Total)
!rowspan="2"| Per capita
!rowspan="2"| [[Currency]]
!rowspan="2"| [[Government]]
!rowspan="2"| [[Official languages]]
|- style="background:#ececec;"
!km2 !![[square mile|sq mi]] !!/km2!!/sq mi
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[Anatolia]]''':
|-
|{{flag|Turkey}}1
| {{convert|783562|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 73,914,000
| {{convert|91|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Ankara]]
| $1.028 trillion<ref name=WB-GDP-PPP>[http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP_PPP.pdf The World Bank: World Economic Indicators Database. ''GDP (PPP) 2008.''] Data for the year 2008. Last revised on July 1, 2009.</ref> (2008)
| $13,920<ref name=WB-GDP-PPP/><ref name=WB-Population>[http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/POP.pdf The World Bank: World Economic Indicators Database. ''Population 2008.''] Data for the year 2008. Last revised on July 1, 2009.</ref> (2008)
| [[Turkish new lira|Turkish lira]]
| [[Parliamentary democracy]]
| [[Turkish language|Turkish]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[Arabian Peninsula]]''':
|-
| {{flag|Bahrain}}
| {{convert|665|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 656,397
| {{convert|987|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Manama]]
| $26.970 billion (2008)
| $34,605 (2008)
| [[Bahraini Dinar]]
| [[Constitutional monarchy]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Kuwait}}
| {{convert|17,820|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 3,100,000
| {{convert|119|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Kuwait City]]
| $137.190 billion (2008)
| $39,849 (2008)
| [[Kuwaiti dinar]]
| [[Constitutional monarchy]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Oman}}
| {{convert|212,460|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 3,200,000
| {{convert|13|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Muscat, Oman|Muscat]]
| $66.889 billion (2008)
| $24,153 (2008)
| [[Omani rial|Omani Rial]]
| [[Absolute monarchy]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Qatar}}
| {{convert|11,437|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 793,341
| {{convert|69|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Doha]]
| $94.249 billion (2008)
| $85,867 (2008)
| [[Qatari riyal|Qatari Riyal]]
| [[Constitutional monarchy]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Saudi Arabia}}
| {{convert|1,960,582|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 23,513,330
| {{convert|12|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Riyadh]]
| $593.385 billion (2008)
| $23,834 (2008)
| [[Saudi riyal|Riyal]]
| [[Absolute monarchy]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|United Arab Emirates}}
| {{convert|82,880|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 5,432,746
| {{convert|30|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Abu Dhabi]]
| $184.984 billion (2008)
| $38,830 (2008)
| [[UAE dirham]]
| [[Federation|Federal]] [[Constitutional monarchy]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Yemen}}
| {{convert|527,970|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 18,701,257
| {{convert|35|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Sanaá]]
| $55.433 billion (2008)
| $2,412 (2008)
| [[Yemeni rial]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[Eastern Mediterranean]] and ([[Mesopotamia]])''':
|-
| {{flag|Cyprus}}
| {{convert|9,250|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 792,604
| {{convert|90|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Nicosia]]
| $22.703 billion (2008)
| $29,830 (2008)
| [[Euro (currency)|Euro]]
| [[Presidential republic]]
| [[Greek language|Greek]], [[Turkish language|Turkish]]
|-
| {{flagicon image|Flag of Palestine.svg}} ''[[Gaza Strip]]'' (not fully sovereign)
| {{convert|360|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 1,376,289
| {{convert|3,823|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Gaza]]
| $770 million (2008)
| $2,900 (2008)
| [[Israeli new sheqel]]
| [[Autonomous republic]] [[Palestinian National Authority]] [[Hamas]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Iraq}}
| {{convert|437,072|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 31,001,816
| {{convert|70.93|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Baghdad]]
| $202.3 billion (2008)
| $6,500 (2008)
| [[Iraqi dinar]]
| [[Parliamentary republic]]
| [[Arabic]], [[Syriac language|Assyrian]], [[Kurdish language|Kurdish]]
|-
| {{flag|Israel}}
| {{convert|20,770|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 7,465,000
| {{convert|290|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Jerusalem]]2
| $200.630 billion (2008)
| $28,206 (2008)
| [[Israeli new sheqel]]
| [[Parliamentary democracy]]
| [[Hebrew]], [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Jordan}}
| {{convert|92,300|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 6,407,085
| {{convert|58|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Amman]]
| $32.112 billion (2008)
| $5,314 (2008)
| [[Jordanian dinar]]
| [[Constitutional monarchy]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Lebanon}}
| {{convert|10,452|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 4,224,000
|{{convert|354|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Beirut]]
| $58.576 billion (2010)
| $14,988 (2010)
| [[Lebanese pound]]
| [[Republic]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Syria}}
| {{convert|185,180|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 22,505,000
| {{convert|93|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Damascus]]
| $105.238 billion (2010)
| $5,043 (2010)
| [[Syrian pound]]
| [[Presidential republic]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| {{flagicon image|Flag of Palestine.svg}} ''[[West Bank]]'' (not fully sovereign)
|{{convert|5,860|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}3
| style="text-align:right;"| 2,500,0005
| {{convert|432|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}3,4
| [[Ramallah]]
|
|
| [[Israeli new sheqel]]
| [[Autonomous republic]] [[Palestinian National Authority]] [[Fatah]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[Iranian Plateau]]''':
|-
| {{flag|Iran}}
| {{convert|1,648,195|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 71,208,000
| {{convert|42|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Tehran]]
| $819.799 billion (2008)
| $11,250 (2008)
| [[Iranian rial]]
| [[Islamic republic]]
| [[Persian language|Persian]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[North Africa]]''':
|-
| {{flag|Egypt}}
| {{convert|1,001,449|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 77,498,000
|{{convert|74|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Cairo]]
| $442.640 billion (2008)
| $5,898 (2008)
| [[Egyptian pound]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Arabic]]
|-
| colspan="12" |

'''Source:'''

*[[International Monetary Fund]], April 24, 2009, [http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2009/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2008&ey=2008&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C941%2C914%2C446%2C612%2C666%2C614%2C668%2C311%2C672%2C213%2C946%2C911%2C137%2C193%2C962%2C122%2C674%2C912%2C676%2C313%2C548%2C419%2C556%2C513%2C678%2C316%2C181%2C913%2C682%2C124%2C684%2C339%2C273%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C686%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558%2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C716%2C321%2C456%2C243%2C722%2C248%2C942%2C469%2C718%2C253%2C724%2C642%2C576%2C643%2C936%2C939%2C961%2C644%2C813%2C819%2C199%2C172%2C184%2C132%2C524%2C646%2C361%2C648%2C362%2C915%2C364%2C134%2C732%2C652%2C366%2C174%2C734%2C328%2C144%2C258%2C146%2C656%2C463%2C654%2C528%2C336%2C923%2C263%2C738%2C268%2C578%2C532%2C537%2C944%2C742%2C176%2C866%2C534%2C369%2C536%2C744%2C429%2C186%2C433%2C925%2C178%2C746%2C436%2C926%2C136%2C466%2C343%2C112%2C158%2C111%2C439%2C298%2C916%2C927%2C664%2C846%2C826%2C299%2C542%2C582%2C443%2C474%2C917%2C754%2C544%2C698&s=PPPGDP&grp=0&a=&pr.x=9&pr.y=12 PPP GDP 2008]
*[[World Bank]], July 1, 2009, [http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP_PPP.pdf PPP GDP 2008]


'''Notes:'''

1 The figures for Turkey includes Eastern Thrace, which is not a part of Anatolia.

2 Under Israeli law. The UN doesn't recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

3 Includes the whole of the West Bank, according to the pre-1967 boundaries.

4 In addition, there are around 400,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank, of which half are in East-Jerusalem.
|}

===Greater Middle East===
{{main|Greater Middle East}}

{| border="1" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="border:1px solid #aaa; border-collapse:collapse; font-size:90%;width:100%;"
|- style="background:#ececec;"
!rowspan="2"| [[Country]], with [[flag]]
!colspan="2"| [[List of countries by area|Area]] (km²)
!rowspan="2"| [[List of countries by population|Population]]
!colspan="2"| [[List of countries by population density|Density]] (per km²)
!rowspan="2"| [[Capital (political)|Capital]]
!rowspan="2"| [[Gross domestic product|GDP]] (Total)
!rowspan="2"| Per capita
!rowspan="2"| [[Currency]]
!rowspan="2"| [[Government]]
!rowspan="2"| [[Official languages]]
|- style="background:#ececec;"
!km2 !![[square mile|sq mi]] !!/km2!!/sq mi
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''Caucacus''':
|-
|{{flag|Armenia}}
| {{convert|29,800|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 2,968,586
| {{convert|111.7|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Yerevan]]
| $18.715 billion (2008)
| $5,272 (2008)
| [[Armenian dram]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Armenian language|Armenian]]
|-
|{{flag|Azerbaijan}}
| {{convert|86,600|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 8,621,000
| {{convert|97|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Baku]]
| $74.734 billion (2008)
| $8,620 (2008)
| [[Azerbaijani manat]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Azerbaijani language|Azerbaijani]]
|-
| {{flag|Georgia}}
| {{convert|20,460|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 4,630,841
| {{convert|99.3|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Tbilisi]]
| $21.812 billion (2008)
| $4,957 (2008)
| [[Georgian lari]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Georgian language|Georgian]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[South Asia]]''':
|-
| {{flag|Afghanistan}}1
| {{convert|647,500 |km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 31,889,923
| {{convert|46|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Kabul]]
| $21.340 billion (2008)
| $758 (2008)
| [[Afghan afghani|Afghani]]
| [[Islamic republic]]
| [[Dari (Eastern Persian)|Persian]], [[Pashto]]
|-
| {{flag|Pakistan}}
| {{convert|880,940|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 169,300,000
| {{convert|206|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Islamabad]]
| $439.558 billion (2008)
| $2,738 (2008)
| [[Pakistani Rupee]]
| [[Islamic republic]]
| [[Urdu language|Urdu]], [[English language|English]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[Central Asia]]''':
|-
| {{flag|Kazakhstan}}
| {{convert|2,724,900|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 15,217,711
| {{convert|5.4|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Astana]]
| $177.545 billion (2008)
| $11,416 (2008)
| [[Kazakhstani tenge]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Kazakh language|Kazakh]], [[Russian language|Russian]]
|-
| {{flag|Uzbekistan}}
| {{convert|447,400|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 27,372,000
| {{convert|59|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Tashkent]]
| $71.501 billion (2008)
| $2,629 (2008)
| [[Uzbekistani som]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Uzbek language|Uzbek]]
|-
| {{flag|Turkmenistan}}
| {{convert|488,100|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 5,110,023
| {{convert|9.9|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Ashgabat]]
| $30.091 billion (2008)
| $5,710 (2008)
| [[Turkmenistani manat]]
| [[Presidential system|Presidential republic]]
| [[Turkmen language|Turkmen]]
|-
| {{flag|Tajikistan}}
| {{convert|143,100|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 7,215,700
| {{convert|45|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Dushanbe]]
| $13.041 billion (2008)
| $2,019 (2008)
| [[Somoni]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Tajik language|Tajik]]
|-
| {{flag|Kyrgyzstan}}
| {{convert|199,900|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 5,356,869
| {{convert|26|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Bishkek]]
| $11.580 billion (2008)
| $2,180 (2008)
| [[Kyrgyzstani som]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Kyrgyz language|Kyrgyz]], [[Russian language|Russian]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[North Africa]] ([[Maghreb]] and [[Nubia]])''':
|-
| {{flag|Algeria}}
| {{convert|2,381,740|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 33,333,216
| {{convert|14|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Algiers]]
| $233.098 billion (2008)
| $6,698 (2008)
| [[Algerian dinar]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Mauritania}}
| {{convert|1,030,700|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 3,291,000
| {{convert|70|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Nouakchott]]
| $6.221 billion (2008)
| $2,052 (2008)
| [[Mauritanian ouguiya|Ouguiya]]
| [[Military junta]]
| [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Western Sahara}}
| {{convert|163,610 |km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 10,102,000
| {{convert|62|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[El Aaiun]]
|
|
| [[Moroccan dirham]]
|
| [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Libya}}
| {{convert|1,759,540 |km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 6,036,914
| {{convert|3|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Tripoli]]
| $90.251 billion (2008)
| $14,533 (2008)
| [[Libyan dinar]]
| [[Jamahiriya]]
| [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Morocco}}
| {{convert|446,550|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 33,757,175
| {{convert|70|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Rabat]]
| $136.728 billion (2008)
| $4,349 (2008)
| [[Moroccan dirham]]
| [[Constitutional monarchy]]
| [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Tunisia}}
| {{convert|163,610|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 10,102,000
| {{convert|62|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Tunis]]
| $82.226 billion (2008)
| $7,962 (2008)
| [[Tunisian dinar]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Sudan}}
| {{convert|2,505,813|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 39,379,358
| {{convert|14|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Khartoum]]
| $87.885 billion (2008)
| $2,305 (2008)
| [[Sudanese pound]]
| [[Presidential republic]]
| [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[Horn of Africa]]''':
|-
| {{flag|Djibouti}}
| {{convert|23,200|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 496,374
| {{convert|34|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Djibouti (city)|Djibouti]]
| $1.877 billion (2008)
| $2,392 (2008)
| [[Djiboutian franc]]
| [[Parliamentary republic]]
| [[Arabic language|Arabic]], [[French language|French]], [[Somali language|Somali]], [[Afar language|Afar]]
|-
| {{flag|Eritrea}}
| {{convert|117,600|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 4,401,009
| {{convert|37|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Asmara]]
| $3.739 billion (2008)
| $747 (2008)
| [[Nakfa, Eritrea|Nakfa]]
| [[Provisional government]]
| [[Tigrinya]], [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| {{flag|Somalia}}
| {{convert|637,661|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 9,588,666
| {{convert|13|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Mogadishu]]
| $5.524 billion (2008)
| $600 (2008)
| [[Somali shilling]]
| [[Semi-presidential republic]]
| [[Somali language|Somali]], [[Arabic language|Arabic]]
|-
| colspan=12 style="background:#eee;" | '''[[Indian Ocean]]''':
|-
| {{flag|Comoros}}
| {{convert|2,235|km2|sqmi|disp=table}}
| style="text-align:right;"| 798,000
| {{convert|275|PD/km2|PD/sqmi|disp=table}}
| [[Moroni]]
| $772 million (2009)
| $1,159 (2009)
| [[Comorian franc]]
| [[Federal republic]]
| [[Comorian language|Comorian]], [[Arabic language|Arabic]], [[French language|French]]
|-
| colspan="12" |
'''Source:'''

*[[International Monetary Fund]], April 24, 2009, [http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2009/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2008&ey=2008&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C941%2C914%2C446%2C612%2C666%2C614%2C668%2C311%2C672%2C213%2C946%2C911%2C137%2C193%2C962%2C122%2C674%2C912%2C676%2C313%2C548%2C419%2C556%2C513%2C678%2C316%2C181%2C913%2C682%2C124%2C684%2C339%2C273%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C686%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558%2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C716%2C321%2C456%2C243%2C722%2C248%2C942%2C469%2C718%2C253%2C724%2C642%2C576%2C643%2C936%2C939%2C961%2C644%2C813%2C819%2C199%2C172%2C184%2C132%2C524%2C646%2C361%2C648%2C362%2C915%2C364%2C134%2C732%2C652%2C366%2C174%2C734%2C328%2C144%2C258%2C146%2C656%2C463%2C654%2C528%2C336%2C923%2C263%2C738%2C268%2C578%2C532%2C537%2C944%2C742%2C176%2C866%2C534%2C369%2C536%2C744%2C429%2C186%2C433%2C925%2C178%2C746%2C436%2C926%2C136%2C466%2C343%2C112%2C158%2C111%2C439%2C298%2C916%2C927%2C664%2C846%2C826%2C299%2C542%2C582%2C443%2C474%2C917%2C754%2C544%2C698&s=PPPGDP&grp=0&a=&pr.x=9&pr.y=12 PPP GDP 2008]
*[[World Bank]], July 1, 2009, [http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP_PPP.pdf PPP GDP 2008]


'''Notes:'''
1 Afghanistan is often considered Central Asian<ref>[http://web.utah.edu/meca/2007Conf/2007%20MECA-%20Final%20Program.pdf ''The 2007 Middle East & Central Asia Politics, Economics, and Society Conference'' University of Utah].</ref><ref>[http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/reo/2006/eng/01/mreo0506.pdf "Regional Economic Outlook: Middle East & Central Asia" May 2006, International Monetary Fund].</ref>
|}

==History==
{{main|History of the Middle East}}
{{see also|List of conflicts in the Middle East}}
[[Image:Jerusalem kotel mosque.jpg|thumb|upright|The Temple Mount in Jerusalem]]
[[Image:Meshed ali usnavy (PD).jpg|thumb|left|The [[Imam Ali Mosque]], an important shrine in [[Najaf]]]]

The Middle East lies at the juncture of [[Eurasia]] and [[Africa]] and of the [[Mediterranean Sea]] and the [[Indian Ocean]]. It is the birthplace and [[Spirituality|spiritual]] center of the [[Christianity]], [[Islam]], [[Judaism]], [[Yezidi]], and in Iran, [[Mithraism]], [[Zoroastrianism]], [[Manichaeism]] and the [[Bahá'í Faith]]. Throughout its history the Middle East has been a major center of world affairs; a strategically, economically, politically, culturally, and religiously sensitive area.

The earliest civilizations, [[Mesopotamia]] and [[ancient Egypt]], originated in the [[Fertile Crescent]] and [[Nile]] Valley regions of the [[ancient Near East]], as well as the civilizations of the [[History of the Levant|Levant]], [[History of Iran|Persia]], and [[Arabian Peninsula]]. The [[Near East]] was first unified under the [[Achaemenid Empire]] followed later by the [[Macedonian Empire]] and later [[Persian Empire|Iranian empires]], namely the [[Arsacid Empire|Parthian]] and [[Sassanid Empire]]s. However, it would be the [[Caliphate|Arab Caliphates]] of the [[Middle Ages]], or [[Islamic Golden Age]], that would first unify the entire Middle East as a distinct region and create the dominant [[Arab|ethnic identity]] that persists today. The Turkic [[Seljuk Empire|Seljuk]], [[Ottoman Empire|Ottoman]] and [[Safavid dynasty|Safavid]] empires would also later dominate the region.

The modern Middle East began after [[World War I]], when the [[Ottoman Empire]], which was allied with the defeated [[Central Powers]], was [[partitioning of the Ottoman Empire|partitioned]] into a number of separate nations. Other defining events in this transformation included the establishment of [[Israel]] in 1948 and the departure of European powers, notably [[United Kingdom|Britain]] and [[France]]. They were supplanted in some part by the rising influence of the [[United States]].

In the 20th century, the region's significant stocks of [[crude oil]] gave it new strategic and economic importance. Mass production of oil began around 1945, with Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, Iraq, and the United Arab Emirates having large quantities of oil.<ref>Goldschmidt (1999), p. 8</ref> Estimated [[Oil reserves#Estimated reserves by country|oil reserves]], especially in Saudi Arabia and Iran, are some of the highest in the world, and the international oil cartel [[OPEC]] is dominated by Middle Eastern countries.

During the Cold War, the Middle East was a theater of ideological struggle between the two superpowers: the United States and the Soviet Union, as they competed to influence regional allies. Of course, besides the political reasons there was also the "ideological conflict" between the two systems. Moreover, as Louise Fawcett argues, among many important areas of contention, or perhaps more accurately of anxiety, were, first, the desires of the superpowers to gain strategic advantage in the region, second, the fact that the region contained some two thirds of the world's oil reserves in a context where oil was becoming increasingly vital to the economy of the Western world [...]<ref>Louise, Fawcett. ''International Relations of the Middle East''. (Oxford University Press, New York, 2005)</ref> Within this contextual framework, the United States sought to divert the Arab world from Soviet influence. Throughout the 20th and into the 21st century, the region has experienced both periods of relative peace and tolerance and periods of conflict and war. Current issues include the US [[Occupation of Iraq]] and the [[Israeli-Palestinian conflict]].

==Demographics==
===Ethnic groups===
{{see also|Demographics of the Arab League}}
[[Image:Ede ethnic groups.jpg|250px|thumb|Various [[Ethnic groups of the Middle East|ethnic]] and religious types present in the Middle East, 19th century]]

The Middle East is home to numerous [[ethnic groups]], including [[Arab]]s, [[Turkish people|Turks]], [[Persian people|Persians]], [[Jew]]s, [[Kurds]], [[Assyrian people|Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriacs]], [[Armenian people|Armenians]], [[Azeris]], [[Circassians]], [[Greeks]] and [[Georgians]].

===Migration===
According to the [[International Organization for Migration]], there are 13 million first-generation Arab migrants in the world, of which 5.8 reside in other Arab countries. Arab expatriates contribute to the circulation of financial and human capital in the region and thus significantly promote regional development. In 2009 Arab countries received a total of 35.1 billion USD in [[remittance]] in-flows and remittances sent to [[Jordan]], [[Egypt]] and [[Lebanon]] from other Arab countries are 40 to 190 per cent higher than trade revenues between these and other Arab countries.<ref>http://www.egypt.iom.int/Doc/IOM%20Intra%20regional%20labour%20mobility%20in%20Arab%20region%20Facts%20and%20Figures%20(English).pdf</ref>

Non-Arab Middle Eastern countries such as Turkey, Israel and Iran are also subject to important migration dynamics.

===Religions===
{{main|Religion in the Middle East|Christianity in the Middle East}}

The Middle East is very diverse when it comes to [[Major religious groups|religions]], many of which originated there. [[Islam]] in its many forms is by far the largest religion in the Middle East, but other faiths, such as [[Judaism]] and [[Christianity]], are also important. There are also important minority religions like [[Bahá'í Faith|Bahá'í]], [[Yazdânism]], [[Zoroastrianism]].

===Languages===
The three top languages, in terms of numbers of speakers, are [[Arabic language|Arabic]], [[Persian language|Persian]] and [[Turkish language|Turkish]], representing the [[Afro-Asiatic languages|Afro-Asiatic]], [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]], and [[Turkic languages|Turkic]] [[language family|language families]], respectively. Various other languages are also spoken in the Middle East.

[[Arabic language|Arabic]] is the most widely spoken language in the Middle East, being official in all the [[Arab countries]]. It is also spoken in some adjacent areas in neighbouring Middle Eastern non-Arab countries. It is a member of the [[Semitic languages|Semitic branch]] of the Afro-Asiatic languages.

The second-most widely spoken language is [[Persian language|Persian]]. While it is confined to [[Iran]] and some border areas in neghbouring countries, the country is one of the region's largest and most populous. It belongs to the [[Indo-Iranian languages|Indo-Iranian branch]] of the family of [[Indo-European languages]]. It is much influenced by [[Arabic]] (through Islam) and [[Aramaic]] (the pre-Arabic [[lingua franca]] of the Middle East).

The third-most widely spoken language, [[Turkish language|Turkish]], is confined to Turkey, which is also one of the region's largest and most populous countries. It is present in areas in neighboring countries. It is a member or the [[Turkic languages]], which have their origins in [[Central Asia]].

Other languages spoken in the region include [[Syriac]] (a form of [[Aramaic language|Aramaic]]), [[Armenian language|Armenian]], [[Azerbaijani language|Azerbaijani]], [[Berber languages|Berber]], [[Northwest Caucasian languages|Circassian]], [[Iranian languages|smaller Iranian languages]], [[Hebrew language|Hebrew]], [[Kurdish language|Kurdish]], [[Turkic languages|smaller Turkic languages]], [[Greek language|Greek]], and several [[Modern South Arabian languages]].

[[English language|English]] is commonly spoken as a second language, especially among the [[middle class|middle]] and [[upper class]]es, in countries such as [[Egypt]], [[Jordan]], [[Israel]], [[Iran]], [[Iraq]], [[Qatar]], [[Bahrain]], [[United Arab Emirates]] and [[Kuwait]].<ref>{{cite web |url= https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/jo.html#People |title=World Factbook - Jordan}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url= https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ku.html |title=World Factbook - Kuwait}}</ref> It is also a main language in some of the Emirates of the United Arab Emirates. [[French language|French]] is spoken in Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon, Morocco, Syria, and Tunisia. [[Urdu]]/[[Hindi]] is widely spoken in many Middle Eastern countries, such as Saudi Arabia(where 20-25% of the population is South Asian), the United Arab Emirates(where 50-55% of the population is South Asian), Israel, and Qatar, which have large numbers of [[Pakistan]]i and [[India]]n immigrants. The largest [[Romanian language|Romanian]]-speaking community in the Middle East is found in [[Israel]], where {{as of|1995|lc=on}} Romanian is spoken by 5% of the population.<ref>According to the 1993 ''Statistical Abstract of Israel'' there were 250,000 Romanian speakers in Israel, at a population of 5,548,523 (census 1995).</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.eurojewcong.org/ejc/news.php?id_article=110 |title=Reports of about 300,000 Jews that left the country after WW2 |publisher=Eurojewcong.org |date= |accessdate=2010-07-07}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.evz.ro/article.php?artid=185041 |title=Evenimentul Zilei |publisher=Evz.ro |date= |accessdate=2010-07-07}}</ref> [[Russian language|Russian]] is also spoken by a large portion of the Israeli population, due to [[Aliyah from the Commonwealth of Independent States in the 1990s|emigration in the late 1990s]].

==Economy==

{{main|Economy of the Middle East|Middle East economic integration}}

Middle Eastern economies range from being very poor (such as Gaza and Yemen) to extremely wealthy nations (such as Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia). Overall, {{as of|2007|lc=on}}, according to the CIA World Factbook, all nations in the Middle East are maintaining a positive rate of growth.

According to the [[World Bank]]'s ''World Development Indicators'' database published on July 1, 2009, the three largest Middle Eastern economies in 2008 were Turkey ($ 794,228,000,000), Saudi Arabia ($ 467,601,000,000) and Iran ($ 385,143,000,000) in terms of [[List of countries by GDP (nominal)|Nominal GDP]].<ref name=WB-GDP-Nominal>[http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GDP.pdf The World Bank: World Economic Indicators Database. ''GDP (Nominal) 2008.''] Data for the year 2008. Last revised on July 1, 2009.</ref> In regards to nominal GDP per capita, the highest ranking countries are Qatar ($93,204), the UAE ($55,028), Kuwait ($45,920) and Cyprus ($32,745).<ref>Data refer to the year 2008. [http://imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2009/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=26&pr.y=9&sy=2008&ey=2008&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C941%2C914%2C446%2C612%2C666%2C614%2C668%2C311%2C672%2C213%2C946%2C911%2C137%2C193%2C962%2C122%2C674%2C912%2C676%2C313%2C548%2C419%2C556%2C513%2C678%2C316%2C181%2C913%2C682%2C124%2C684%2C339%2C273%2C638%2C921%2C514%2C948%2C218%2C943%2C963%2C686%2C616%2C688%2C223%2C518%2C516%2C728%2C918%2C558%2C748%2C138%2C618%2C196%2C522%2C278%2C622%2C692%2C156%2C694%2C624%2C142%2C626%2C449%2C628%2C564%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C716%2C321%2C456%2C243%2C722%2C248%2C942%2C469%2C718%2C253%2C724%2C642%2C576%2C643%2C936%2C939%2C961%2C644%2C813%2C819%2C199%2C172%2C184%2C132%2C524%2C646%2C361%2C648%2C362%2C915%2C364%2C134%2C732%2C652%2C366%2C174%2C734%2C328%2C144%2C258%2C146%2C656%2C463%2C654%2C528%2C336%2C923%2C263%2C738%2C268%2C578%2C532%2C537%2C944%2C742%2C176%2C866%2C534%2C369%2C536%2C744%2C429%2C186%2C433%2C925%2C178%2C746%2C436%2C926%2C136%2C466%2C343%2C112%2C158%2C111%2C439%2C298%2C916%2C927%2C664%2C846%2C826%2C299%2C542%2C582%2C443%2C474%2C917%2C754%2C544%2C698&s=NGDPDPC&grp=0&a= World Economic Outlook Database-October 2009], [[International Monetary Fund]]. Retrieved October 1, 2009.</ref> Turkey ($ 1,028,897,000,000), Iran ($ 839,438,000,000) and Saudi Arabia ($ 589,531,000,000) had the largest economies in terms of [[List of countries by GDP (PPP)|GDP-PPP]].<ref name="WB-GDP-PPP"/> When it comes to per capita (PPP)-based income, the highest-ranking countries are Qatar ($86,008), Kuwait ($39,915), the UAE ($38,894), Bahrain ($34,662) and Cyprus ($29,853). The lowest-ranking country in the Middle East, in terms of per capita income (PPP), is the autonomous Palestinian Authority of Gaza and the West Bank ($1,100).

The economic structure of Middle Eastern nations are different in the sense that while some nations are heavily dependent on export of only oil and oil-related products (such as Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Kuwait), others have a highly diverse economic base (such as Cyprus, Israel, Turkey and Egypt). Industries of the Middle Eastern region include oil and oil-related products, agriculture, cotton, cattle, dairy, textiles, leather products, surgical instruments, defence equipment (guns, ammunition, tanks, submarines, fighter jets, UAVs, and missiles). Banking is also an important sector of the economies, especially in the case of UAE and Bahrain.

With the exception of Cyprus, Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon and Israel, tourism has been a relatively undeveloped area of the economy, due in part to the socially conservative nature of the region as well as political turmoil in certain regions of the Middle East. In recent years, however, countries such as the UAE, Bahrain, and Jordan have begun attracting greater number of tourists due to improving tourist facilities and the relaxing of tourism-related restrictive policies.

Unemployment is notably high in the Middle East and North Africa region, particularly among young people aged 15–29, a demographic representing 30% of the region’s total population. The total regional unemployment rate in 2005, according to the [[International Labor Organization]], was 13.2%,<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=108&subsecID=900003&contentID=254026 |title=Unemployment Rates Are Highest in the Middle East |publisher=Progressive Policy Institute |date=August 30, 2006}}</ref> and among youth is as high as 25%,<ref>{{cite web |author=Navtej Dhillon, Tarek Yousef |url=http://shababinclusion.org/content/document/detail/623/1 |title=Inclusion: Meeting the 100 Million Youth Challenge |publisher=Shabab Inclusion |year=2007}}</ref> up to 37% in [[Morocco]] and 73% in [[Syria]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.shababinclusion.org/content/document/detail/558/1 |author=[[Hilary Silver]] |title=Social Exclusion: Comparative Analysis of Europe and Middle East Youth |work=Middle East Youth Initiative Working Paper |date=September 200 |publisher=Shabab Inclusion}}</ref>

==See also==
{{Portal|Middle East}}
* [[Central Asia]]
* [[Fertile Crescent]]
* [[Greater Middle East]]
* [[History of the Middle East]]
* [[List of conflicts in the Middle East]]
* [[Maayan]] Middle East poetry magazine
* [[Middle East Institute]]
* [[Middle East Studies Association of North America]]
* [[Middle East Youth Initiative]]
* [[Near East]]
* [[Orientalism]]
* [[Timeline of Middle Eastern History]]
* [[Waithood]]
* [[Western Asia]]

==Notes==
{{Reflist|2}}

==References==
* {{cite book |author=Adelson, Roger |title=London and the Invention of the Middle East: Money, Power, and War, 1902-1922. |publisher=Yale University Press |year=1995 |isbn=0300060947}}
* {{cite book |author=Anderson, R., Seibert, R., & Wagner, J. |title=Politics and Change in the Middle East |edition=8th |publisher= Prentice-Hall |year=2006}}
*{{cite book |author=Barzilai, Gad.,Klieman Aharon.,Shidlo Gil|title=The Gulf Crisis and its Global Aftermath|publisher= Routledge |year=1993 |isbn=0-415-08002}}
* {{cite book |author=Barzilai, Gad.|title=Wars, Internal Conflicts and Political Order|publisher= State University of New York Press |year=1996 |isbn=0-7914-2943-1}}
* {{cite book |author=Beaumont, Peter, Gerald H. Blake, J. Malcolm Wagstaff |title=The Middle East: A Geographical Study |publisher=David Fulton |year=1988}}
* {{cite book |title=A Concise History of the Middle East |author=Goldschmidt Jr., Arthur |publisher=Westview Press |year=1999}}

==External links==
{{commons}}
{{wiktionary}}
{{wikinews}}
{{Spoken Wikipedia|Wikipedia_-_Middle_East.ogg|2008-03-28}}
*[http://www.cfr.org/region/397/middle_east.html "Middle East - Articles by Region"] - [[Council on Foreign Relations]]: "A Resource for Nonpartisan Research and Analysis"
*[http://www.cfr.org/publication/13850/?cid=080416a "Middle East - Interactive Crisis Guide"] - [[Council on Foreign Relations]]: "A Resource for Nonpartisan Research and Analysis"
*[http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/mideast/ Middle East Department] [[University of Chicago]] Library
*''[http://www.meed.com Middle East Business Intelligence since 1957]'': "The leading information source on business in the Middle East" - MEED.com
*[http://news.yahoo.com/i/736 Middle East News] from Yahoo! News
*{{dmoz|Regional/Middle_East/}}
*[http://www.arabianbusiness.com/ Middle East Business, Financial & Industry News] — ''ArabianBusiness.com''

{{Countries and territories of the Middle East}}
{{Regions of the world}}



[[Category:Middle East| ]]
[[Category:Western Asia]]
[[Category:North Africa]]


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Iran

2010-10-04T07:46:27Z

Parthian Scribe:

{{Redirect|Persia}}
{{Dablink|This article is about the country of Iran. For a topical guide of this subject, see [[Outline of Iran]]. For other uses, see [[Iran (disambiguation)]].}}
{{pp-semi-vandalism|small=yes}}
{{Coord|32|N|53|E||display=title}}

{{Infobox Country
|native_name='''جمهوری اسلامی ایران''' ''Jomhuri-ye Eslāmi-ye Irān''
|conventional_long_name=Islamic Republic of Iran
|common_name=Iran
|image_flag=Flag of Iran.svg
|image_coat=Coat of arms of Iran.svg
|image_map=Iran (orthographic projection).svg
|official_religion=[[Shia Islam]]
|national_motto=''استقلال. آزادی. جمهوری اسلامی'' ''Independence, Freedom, Islamic Republic
|national_anthem=[[Sorud-e Melli-e Iran|National Anthem of Iran]]{{spaces|2}}(official) {{lang|fa|''[[Ey Iran]]''}}{{spaces|2}}(De facto) ({{lang-fa|Oh Iran}})
| national_anthem = [[Sorud-e Melli-e Iran|National Anthem of Iran]]{{spaces|2}}(official) {{lang|fa|''[[Ey Iran]]''}}{{spaces|2}}(De facto) ({{lang-fa|Oh Iran}})
|capital=[[Tehran]]
|latd=35|latm=41|latNS=N|longd=51|longm=25|longEW=E
|largest_city=capital
|official_languages=[[Persian language|Persian]]
|languages_type=[[Regional languages]]
|demonym=[[Demography of Iran|Iranian]]
|government_type=[[Islamic republic]]
|legislature=[[Parliament of Iran|Consultative Assembly]]
|leader_title1=[[Supreme Leader of Iran|Supreme Leader]]
|leader_name1={{nowrap|[[Ali Khamenei]]}}
|leader_title2=[[President of Iran|President]]
|leader_name2={{nowrap|[[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]]}}
|leader_title3=[[Vice President of Iran|First Vice President]]
|leader_name3={{nowrap|[[Mohammad-Reza Rahimi]]}}
|leader_title4=[[List of Speakers of the Parliament of Iran|Speaker of the Parliament]]
|leader_name4={{nowrap|[[Ali Larijani]]}}
|leader_title5=[[Chief Justice]]
|leader_name5={{nowrap|[[Sadegh Larijani]]}}
|sovereignty_type=Unification<ref name="Encyclopædia Britannica Encyclopedia Article: Media ancient region, Iran"/>
|established_event1=[[Median Empire]]
|established_date1=625 BC
|established_event2=[[Safavid Empire]]
|established_date2=1501<ref name="Andrew J. Newman 2006"/>
|established_event5=[[Islamic Republic]]
|established_date5=1 April 1979
|established_event6=[[Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran|Current constitution]]
|established_date6=24 October 1979
|area_km2=1,648,195
|area_sq_mi=636,372 
|area_rank=18th
|area_magnitude=1 E12
|percent_water=0.7
|population_density_rank=163rd 
|population_estimate=74,196,000<ref name=unpop>{{Cite journal|url=http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wpp2008/wpp2008_text_tables.pdf|title=World Population Prospects, Table A.1|version=2008 revision|format=PDF|publisher=United Nations|author=Department of Economic and Social Affairs
Population Division|year=2009|accessdate=2009-03-12}}</ref>
|population_estimate_year=2008
|population_estimate_rank=17th<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://esa.un.org/UNPP/ |title=World Population Prospects: The 2008 Revision Population Database |publisher=Esa.un.org |date=2009-03-11 |accessdate=2010-09-25}}</ref>
|population_density_km2=45
|population_density_sq_mi=116.6 
|population_census=70,495,782
|population_census_year=2006
|GDP_PPP=$858,652 billion<ref name=imf>{{Cite web|url=http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2010/01/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2007&ey=2010&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=429&s=NGDPD%2CNGDPDPC%2CPPPGDP%2CPPPPC%2CLP&grp=0&a=&pr.x=49&pr.y=10|title=Iran|publisher=International Monetary Fund|accessdate=2010-04-21}}</ref>
|GDP_PPP_rank=
|GDP_PPP_year=2010
|GDP_PPP_per_capita=$11,395<ref name="imf"/>
|GDP_PPP_per_capita_rank=
|GDP_nominal=$359.970 billion<ref name="imf"/>
|GDP_nominal_rank=
|GDP_nominal_year=2010
|GDP_nominal_per_capita=$4,777<ref name="imf"/>
|GDP_nominal_per_capita_rank=
|Gini=38<ref name='CBI'>[http://www.cbi.ir/page/5881.aspx CBI: Economic Trends 2008/2009]. Retrieved 4 July 2009.</ref>
|Gini_year=2008
|Gini_category=medium
|HDI_year=2007
|HDI={{increase}} 0.782
|HDI_rank=88th
|HDI_category=medium
|currency=[[Iranian rial|Rial]] (<big>[[File:Rialsymbol.svg|20px]]</big>)
|currency_code=IRR
|time_zone=[[Iran Standard Time|IRST]]
|utc_offset=+3:30
|time_zone_DST=Iran Daylight Time (IRDT)
|utc_offset_DST=+4:30
|drives_on=right
|cctld=[[.ir]]
|calling_code=[[Telephone numbers in Iran|98]]
|footnote1=[http://www.bookrags.com/browse/Encyclopedia%20of%20Religious%20Practices/50 Bookrags.com]
|footnote2=[http://www.iranchamber.com/geography/articles/flag_anthem.php Iranchamber.com]
|footnote3={{Cite web|url=http://www.sci.org.ir/content/userfiles/_sci/sci/SEL/f02/2.1.html|title=جمعيت و متوسط رشد سالانه|author=Statistical Center of Iran|accessdate=2009-02-13|language=Persian}} {{Dead link|date=September 2010|bot=H3llBot}}
|footnote4=[https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html#Econ CIA Factbook]
}}
'''Iran''' ({{lang-fa|<big>ایران</big>}} {{IPA-fa|ʔiˈɾɒn||Iran_alborz.ogg}}), officially the '''Islamic Republic of Iran''' or '''Khomeini's Islamic Republic (KIR)'''<ref>{{lang-fa|<big>جمهوری اسلامی ایران</big>}}, pronounced {{IPA-fa|dʒomhuːɾije eslɒːmije iːɾɒn|}}</ref> is a country in [[Central Eurasia]] and [[Western Asia]].<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://cesww.fas.harvard.edu/ces_definition.html|title=«CESWW» - Definition of Central Eurasia|publisher=Cesww.fas.harvard.edu|accessdate=2010-08-01}}</ref><ref>[http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/places/countries/country_iran.html [[National Geographic]].]</ref> The [[Iran (word)|name ''Iran'']] has been in use natively since the [[Sassanid Empire|Sassanian era]] and came into use internationally in 1935, before which the country was also known to the western world as ''Persia''.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.iranica.com/articles/eran-eransah |title=D.N. Mackenzie, "ĒRĀN, ĒRĀNŠAHR" in Encyclopedia Iranica |publisher=Iranica.com |date=1998-12-15 |accessdate=2010-08-25}}</ref> Both ''Persia'' and ''Iran'' are used interchangeably in cultural contexts; however, ''Iran'' is the name used officially in political contexts.<ref name="artarena">[http://www.art-arena.com/history.html Iransaga], "Persia or Iran, a brief history".</ref><ref name="iranian">[http://www.iranian.ws/art.htm Iranian.ws], Iranian & Persian Art.</ref>

The 18th largest country in the world in terms of area at {{convert|1648195|km²|abbr=on}}, Iran has a population of over 74 million.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTIRAN/Resources/AAG-IRAM09.pdf |title=Worldbank.org |format=PDF |date= |accessdate=2010-08-25}}</ref> It is a country of particular [[geostrategy|geostrategic]] significance owing to its location in the [[Middle East]] and central [[Eurasia]]. Iran is bordered on the north by [[Armenia]], [[Azerbaijan]] and [[Turkmenistan]]. As Iran is a [[littoral zone|littoral]] state of the [[Caspian Sea]], which is an inland sea and [[Condominium (international law)|condominium]], [[Kazakhstan]] and [[Russia]] are also Iran's direct neighbors to the north. Iran is bordered on the east by [[Afghanistan]] and [[Pakistan]], on the south by the [[Persian Gulf]] and the [[Gulf of Oman]], on the west by [[Iraq]] and on the northwest by [[Turkey]]. [[Tehran]] is the capital, the country's largest city and the political, cultural, commercial and industrial center of the nation. Iran is a [[regional power]],<ref name="parliament">[http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmfaff/363/36310.htm parliament.uk, "Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, Eighth Report, Iran]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref><ref name="petro-hunt">[http://www.petro-hunt.com/lectures/LectureOpen.htm Iran @ 2000 and Beyond lecture series, opening address, W. Herbert Hunt, 18 May 2000]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref> and holds an important position in [[Energy superpower#Iran|international energy security]] and [[List of countries by GDP (PPP)|world economy]] as a result of its large reserves of [[petroleum]] and [[natural gas]].

Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuous major [[civilizations]].<ref>[http://www.iranicatours.com/history.htm Iranian History], Retrieved on 2 February 2009.</ref><ref>[http://www.iranchamber.com/architecture/articles/bazaar_of_isfahan1.php Iranian Architecture & Monuments], Retrieved on 2 February 2009.</ref><ref>[http://www.destinationiran.com/Pottery_Making.htm Pottery Making in Iran], Retrieved on 2 February 2009.</ref> The first Iranian dynasty formed during the [[Elamite kingdom]] in 2800 BC. The Iranian [[Medes]] unified Iran into an empire in 625 BC.<ref name="Encyclopædia Britannica Encyclopedia Article: Media ancient region, Iran">{{Cite web|author=Encyclopædia Britannica |url=http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/372125/Media |title=Encyclopædia Britannica Encyclopedia Article: Media ancient region, Iran |publisher=Britannica.com |date= |accessdate=2010-08-25}}</ref> They were succeeded by the Iranian [[Achaemenid Empire]], the [[Hellenistic civilization|Hellenic]] [[Seleucid Empire]] and two subsequent Iranian empires, the [[Parthian empire|Parthians]] and the [[Sassanid Empire|Sassanids]], before the [[Muslim conquest]] in 651 AD. Iranian post-Islamic dynasties and empires expanded the [[Persian language]] and [[Persian culture|culture]] throughout the [[Iranian plateau]]. Early Iranian dynasties which re-asserted Iranian independence included the [[Tahirids]], [[Saffarids]], [[Samanids]] and [[Buyids]].

The blossoming of [[Persian literature]], [[Persian philosophy|philosophy]], [[Science and technology in Iran|medicine]], [[Science and technology in Iran|astronomy]], [[Science and technology in Iran|mathematics]] and [[Persian art|art]] became major elements of Muslim civilization and started with the [[Saffarids]] and [[Samanids]]. Iran was once again reunified as an independent state in 1501 by the [[Safavid dynasty]]<ref name="Andrew J. Newman 2006">Andrew J. Newman, Safavid Iran: Rebirth of a Persian Empire, I. B. Tauris (30 March 2006)</ref>—who promoted [[Twelver]] [[Shi'a Islam]]<ref name="savoryeiref">R.M. Savory, ''Safavids'', [[Encyclopedia of Islam]], 2nd edition</ref> as the official [[religion]] of their empire, marking one of the most important turning points in the [[history of Islam]].<ref name="islamic1600"/> [[Iranian Constitutional Revolution|"Persia's Constitutional Revolution"]] established the nation's [[Majles|first parliament]] in 1906, within a [[constitutional monarchy]]. Iran officially became an [[Islamic republic]] on 1 April 1979, following the [[Iranian Revolution]].<ref name="britannica1">[http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article-202892 Iran Islamic Republic], Encyclopaedia Britannica retrieved 23 January 2008</ref><ref name="Britannica"/>

Iran is a founding member of the [[United Nations|UN]], [[Non-Aligned Movement|NAM]], [[Organisation of the Islamic Conference|OIC]] and [[OPEC]]. The [[Politics of Iran|political system of Iran]], based on the 1979 [[Constitution of Islamic Republic of Iran|constitution]], comprises several intricately connected governing bodies. The highest state authority is the [[Supreme Leader of Iran|Supreme Leader]]. Shia Islam is the official religion and Persian is the official language.<ref>{{Cite web|title=قانون اساسی جمهوری اسلامی ایران|url=http://fa.wikisource.org/wiki/قانون_اساسی_جمهوری_اسلامی_ایران|language=Persian|accessdate=23 January 2008 }}</ref>

==Name==
{{Main|Iran (word)|Name of Iran}}
The term ''Iran'' (ایران) in modern Persian derives from the [[Proto-Iranian]] term ''Aryānā,'' first attested in [[Zoroastrianism]]'s [[Avesta]] tradition.<ref name="Bailey_Arya">{{cite encyclopedia|last=Bailey|first=Harold Walter|authorlink=Harold Walter Bailey|title=Arya|pages=681–683|year=1987|volume=2|encyclopedia=Encyclopedia Iranica|location=New York|publisher=Routledge & Kegan Paul|url=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/v2f7/v2f7a004.html}}</ref> ''Ariya-'' and ''Airiia-'' are also attested as an ethnic designator in [[Achaemenid]] inscriptions. The term ''Ērān'', from [[Middle Persian]] ''Ērān'' ([[Pahlavi scripts|written as]] ''ʼyrʼn'') is found on the inscription that accompanies the investiture relief of [[Ardashir I]] at [[Naqsh-e Rustam]].<ref name="MacKenzie">{{cite encyclopedia|last=MacKenzie|first=David Niel|title=Ērān, Ērānšahr|year=1998|volume=8|encyclopedia=Encyclopedia Iranica|publisher=Mazda|location=Costa Mesa|url=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/v8f5/v8f545.html}}</ref> In this inscription, the king's appellation in [[Middle Persian]] contains the term ''ērān'' (Pahlavi ''ʼryʼn''), while in the [[Parthian language]] inscription that accompanies it, the term ''aryān'' describes Iran. In [[Ardeshir I|Ardeshir]]'s time, ''ērān'' retained this meaning, denoting ''the people'' rather than ''the state''. The name ''Iran'' is a [[cognate]] of ''Aryan'', and means "Land of the [[Aryan]]s".<ref name="hinduwebsite">[http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/concepts/arya.asp hinduwebsite.com, "The Concepts of Hinduism — Arya"]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref><ref name="wiscper">[http://imp.lss.wisc.edu/~aoliai/languagepage/iranianlanguages.htm LSS.wis.edu], "Iranian Languages", Political, Social, Scientific, Literary & Artistic (Monthly) October 2000, No. 171, Dr. Suzan Kaviri, pp. 26–7retrieved 1 October 2007</ref><ref name="about.com">[http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/persianempiremaps/qt/Iran.htm About.com], "Iran — The Ancient Name of Iran", N.S. Gill. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref>

Notwithstanding this inscriptional use of ''ērān'' to refer to the [[Iranian peoples]], the use of ''ērān'' to refer to the geographical empire is also attested in the early Sassanid period. An inscription relating to [[Shapur I]], Ardashir's son and immediate successor, includes regions which were not inhabited primarily by Iranians in ''Ērān'' regions, such as [[Armenia]] and the [[Caucasus]]."<ref name="Gignoux_Aneran">{{cite encyclopedia|title=Anērān|url=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/v2f1/v2f1a035.html|accessdate=25 February 2008 }}</ref> In [[Kartir|Kartir's]] inscriptions the high priest includes the same regions in his list of provinces of the antonymic ''Anērān''.<ref name="Gignoux_Aneran"/> Both ''ērān'' and ''aryān'' come from the [[Proto-Iranian]] term ''Aryānām'', (Land) of the (Iranian) Aryas. The word and concept of [[Airyanem Vaejah]] is present in the name of the country Iran (Lit. Land of the Aryans) inasmuch as Iran (''Ērān'') is the modern Persian form of the word ''Aryānā''.

Since the Sassanid era the country has been known to its own people as Iran; however, to the western world, the official name of Iran from the 6th century BC until 1935 was '''Persia''' or similar foreign language translations (''La Perse'', ''Persien'', ''Perzie'', etc.).<ref name="artarena"/> In that year, [[Reza Shah]] asked the international community to call the country by the name "Iran". A few years later, some Persian scholars protested to the government that changing the name had separated the country from its past, so in 1959<ref name="yarshater1">Yarshater, Ehsan [http://www.iran-heritage.org/interestgroups/language-article5.htm Persia or Iran, Persian or Farsi], ''Iranian Studies'', vol. XXII no. 1 (1989)</ref> [[Mohammad Reza Shah]] announced that both terms could officially be used interchangeably. Now both terms are common, but "Iran" is used mostly in the modern political context and "Persia" in a cultural and historical context. Since the [[Iranian Revolution]] of 1979, the official name of the country has been the "Islamic Republic of Iran."

==Geography and climate==
{{Main|Geography of Iran}}
{{See also|Agriculture in Iran|Wildlife of Iran}}
[[File:Damavand3.jpg|thumb|left|float|150px|[[Mount Damavand]], Iran's highest point, is located in [[Mazanderan]].]]
[[File:Lynx lynx poing.jpg|thumb|left|upright|150px|[[Eurasian Lynx]]]]
[[File:My-iran-climate-map-simplified.png|thumb|RIGHt|150px|Simplified Climatic Map of Iran {{legend|#41ee38|Caspian Mild}} {{legend|#b18114|Mountains}} {{legend|#ffeb6d|Desert and Semi-Desert}}]]

Iran is the [[List of countries and outlying territories by total area|eighteenth largest country]] in the world,<ref>[http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/world_statistics_by_area.htm World Statistics by Area]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> with an area of {{convert|1648000|km²|abbr=on}}.<ref name="CIA">{{Cite web|url=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html|title=Iran|author=CIA World Factbook|accessdate=2008-03-04}}</ref>
Its area roughly equals that of the United Kingdom, France, Spain, and Germany combined, or somewhat more than the US state of [[Alaska]].<ref>[http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Asia-and-Oceania/Iran-LOCATION-SIZE-AND-EXTENT.html Iran-Location, size, and extent]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> Its borders are with [[Azerbaijan]] ({{convert|432|km|mi|0|abbr=on|disp=/}}) and [[Armenia]] ({{convert|35|km|mi|0|abbr=on|disp=/}}) to the north-west; the [[Caspian Sea]] to the north; [[Turkmenistan]] ({{convert|992|km|mi|0|abbr=on|disp=/}}) to the north-east; [[Pakistan]] ({{convert|909|km|mi|0|abbr=on|disp=/}}) and [[Afghanistan]] ({{convert|936|km|mi|0|abbr=on|disp=/}}) to the east; [[Turkey]] ({{convert|499|km|mi|0|abbr=on|disp=/}}) and Iraq ({{convert|1458|km|mi|0|abbr=on|disp=/}}) to the west; and finally the waters of the Persian Gulf and the [[Gulf of Oman]] to the south.

Iran consists of the [[Iranian Plateau]] with the exception of the coasts of the [[Caspian Sea]] and [[Khuzestan]]. It is one of the world's most mountainous countries, its landscape dominated by rugged [[mountain range]]s that separate various [[drainage basin|basins]] or [[plateau]]x from one another. The populous western part is the most mountainous, with ranges such as the [[Caucasus Mountains|Caucasus]], [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros]] and [[Alborz]] Mountains; the last contains Iran's highest point, [[Mount Damavand]] at {{convert|5610|m|ft|0|abbr=on}}, which is not only the country's highest peak but also the highest mountain on the Eurasian landmass west of the [[Hindu Kush]].<ref>[http://news.surfwax.com/geography/files/Hindu_Kush_Mountains.html SurfWax: News, Reviews and Articles On Hindu Kush]. Retrieved 25 February 2008.</ref>

The northern part of Iran is covered by dense rain forests called [[Caspian Hyrcanian mixed forests|Shomal]] or the [[Jungles of Iran]]. The eastern part consists mostly of [[desert]] basins such as the [[Dasht-e Kavir]], Iran's largest desert, in the north-central portion of the country, and the [[Dasht-e Lut]], in the east, as well as some [[Salt lake (geography)|salt lakes]]. This is because the mountain ranges are too high for rain clouds to reach these regions. The only large [[plain]]s are found along the coast of the [[Caspian Sea]] and at the northern end of the Persian Gulf, where Iran borders the mouth of the [[Shatt al-Arab]] (or the Arvand Rūd) river. Smaller, discontinuous plains are found along the remaining coast of the Persian Gulf, the [[Strait of Hormuz]] and the [[Sea of Oman]].

Iran's [[climate]] ranges from [[Desert climate|arid]] or [[semiarid]], to [[subtropical]] along the Caspian coast and the [[Jungles of Iran|northern forests]]. On the northern edge of the country (the Caspian coastal plain) temperatures rarely fall below freezing and the area remains humid for the rest of the year. Summer temperatures rarely exceed {{convert|29|°C|°F|1|lk=on}}.<ref>[http://www.weneedtrees.com/iran/nature.asp Nature & Mountains of Iran]. Retrieved 25 February 2008.</ref><ref name="simmons">[http://my.simmons.edu/lcis/zoom/2005/10/iran-_current_i.html Iran- Current Information]. Retrieved 25 February 2008.</ref> Annual precipitation is {{convert|680|mm|in|1|abbr=on}} in the eastern part of the plain and more than {{convert|1700|mm|in|1|abbr=on}} in the western part.

To the west, settlements in the [[Zagros Mountains|Zagros]] basin experience lower temperatures, severe winters with below zero average daily temperatures and heavy snowfall. The eastern and central basins are arid, with less than {{convert|200|mm|in|1|abbr=on}} of rain, and have occasional deserts.<ref name="simmons"/> Average summer temperatures exceed {{convert|38|°C|1}}. The coastal plains of the Persian Gulf and [[Gulf of Oman]] in southern Iran have mild winters, and very humid and hot summers. The annual precipitation ranges from {{convert|135|to|355|mm|in|1|abbr=on}}.<ref name="simmons"/>

===Fauna===
[[Wildlife of Iran|Iran's wildlife]] is composed of several animal species including bears, gazelles, wild pigs, wolves, jackals, panthers, Eurasian lynx, and foxes. Domestic animals include, sheep, goats, cattle, horses, water buffalo, donkeys, and camels. The pheasant, partridge, stork, eagles and falcon are also native to Iran.
{{-}}

===Provinces and cities===
{{Main|Provinces of Iran|Counties of Iran}}
{{See also|List of Iran cities by population}}
{{Provinces of Iran Labelled Map|float=right}}
Iran is divided into thirty three [[Provinces of Iran|provinces]] (''ostān''), each governed by an appointed governor (استاندار, ostāndār). The provinces are divided into counties (''[[Counties of Iran|shahrestān]]''), and subdivided into districts (''[[bakhsh]]'') and sub-districts (''dehestān'').

Iran has one of the highest urban growth rates in the world. From 1950 to 2002, the urban proportion of the population increased from 27% to 60%.<ref name="payvand2">{{Cite web|url=http://www.payvand.com/news/03/nov/1135.html|title=Iran: Focus on reverse migration|author=Payvand|accessdate=2006-04-17}}</ref> The United Nations predicts that by 2030, 80% of the population will be urban.<ref name="sci.org.ir">[http://www.sci.org.ir/portal/faces/public/census85/census85.natayej/census85.abadipage "Islamic Azad University"]. Retrieved 28 January 2008.</ref> Most internal migrants have settled near the cities of [[Tehran]], [[Isfahan]], [[Ahvaz]], and [[Qom]]. The listed populations are from the 2006/07 (1385 [[Iranian calendar|AP]]) census.<ref>[http://www.sci.org.ir/portal/faces/public/census85/census85.natayej/census85.abadipage Iranian National Portal of Statistics]. Retrieved 27 February 2008.</ref> [[Tehran]], with a population of 7,705,036, is the largest city in Iran and is the Capital. Tehran is home to around 11% of Iran's population. Tehran, like many big cities, suffers from severe air pollution. It is the hub of the country's [[Communications in Iran|communication]] and [[Transport in Iran|transport]] network.

[[Mashhad]], with a population of 2,410,800, is the second largest Iranian city and the centre of the province of [[Razavi Khorasan]]. Mashhad is one of the holiest [[Shi'a]] cities in the world as it is the site of the [[Imam Reza shrine]]. It is the centre of tourism in Iran, and between 15 and 20 million pilgrims go to the [[Imam Reza]]'s shrine every year.<ref>[http://www.iran-daily.com/1383/2211/html/panorama.htm Religious Tourism Potentials Rich]. Retrieved 28 February 2008.</ref><ref>[http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/iran/mashad.htm Mashhad, Iran]. Retrieved 28 February 2008.</ref>

Another major Iranian city is Isfahan (population 1,583,609), which is the capital of [[Isfahan Province]]. The [[Naghsh-e Jahan Square]] in Isfahan has been designated by [[UNESCO]] as a [[World Heritage Site]]. The city contains a wide variety of [[Islamic architecture|Islamic architectural]] sites ranging from the 11th to the 19th century. The growth of the suburban area around the city has turned Isfahan into Iran's second most populous metropolitan area (3,430,353).<ref>[http://www.sci.org.ir/content/userfiles/_census85/census85/natayej/township/Os10.xls Iran – Statistical Centre]. Retrieved 27 February 2008.</ref>

The fourth major city of Iran is [[Tabriz]] (population 1,378,935), the capital of the [[East Azerbaijan province]]. It is also the second industrial city of Iran after [[Tehran]]. [[Tabriz]] had been the second largest city in Iran until the late 1960s and one of its former capitals and residence of the crown prince under the [[Qajar]] dynasty. The city has proven extremely influential in the country’s recent history.

The fifth major city is [[Karaj]] (population 1,377,450), located in [[Alborz province]] and situated 20 km west of Tehran, at the foot of the [[Alborz]] mountains; however, the city is increasingly becoming an extension of metropolitan Tehran.

The sixth major Iranian city is [[Shiraz]] (population 1,214,808); it is the capital of [[Fars Province]]. The [[Elamite]] civilization to the west greatly influenced the area, which soon came to be known as [[Persis]]. The ancient [[Persian people|Persians]] were present in the region from about the 9th century BC, and became rulers of a large empire under the [[Achaemenid dynasty]] in the 6th century BC. The ruins of [[Persepolis]] and [[Pasargadae]], two of the four capitals of the [[Achaemenid Empire]], are located in or near [[Shiraz]]. Persepolis was the ceremonial capital of the [[Achaemenid Empire]] and is situated {{nowrap|70 km}} northeast of modern Shiraz. [[UNESCO]] declared the citadel of Persepolis a [[World Heritage Site]] in 1979.

{{Largest cities of Iran}}

==History==
{{Main|History of Iran}}

===Pre-Historic era===
{{See|Archaeological sites in Iran}}
{{See|Tappeh Sialk|Jiroft culture|Shahr-i Sokhta}}
The earliest archaeological artifacts in Iran were found in the [[Kashafrud]] and [[Ganj Par]] sites that date back to the [[Lower Paleolithic]] era. [[Mousterian]] Stone tools made by [[Neanderthal]] man have also been found.<ref name=Museum>http://www.pbase.com/k_amj/tehran_museum retrieved 27 March 2008</ref> There are more cultural remains of [[Neanderthal]] man dating back to the [[Middle Paleolithic]] period, which have been found mainly in the Zagros region and less frequently in central Iran at sites such as Shanidar, Kobeh, Kunji, Bisetun, Tamtama, [[Warwasi]], Palegawra, and [[Yafteh]] Cave.<ref>J.D. Vigne, J. Peters and D. Helmer, ''First Steps of Animal Domestication'', Proceedings of the 9th Conference of the International Council of Archaeozoology, Durham, August 2002, ISBN 1-84217-121-6</ref> Evidence for [[Upper Paleolithic]] and [[Epipaleolithic]] periods are known mainly from the [[Zagros]] region in the caves of [[Kermanshah]] and [[Khoramabad]].

Early agricultural communities such as [[Chogha Bonut]] in 8000 BC,<ref>''[http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/pubs/nn/spr97_alizadeh.html EXCAVATIONS AT CHOGHA BONUT: THE EARLIEST VILLAGE IN SUSIANA, IRAN]'', by [[Abbas Alizadeh]] - The Oriental Institute and the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations The University of Chicago</ref><ref>[http://www.iranica.com/newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/ot_grp5/ot_neolithic_age_20050106.html ]{{Dead link|date=August 2010}}</ref> [[Susa]] (now a city still existing since 7000 BC)<ref>''Iranian official urges approval of Susa demarcation'', http://www.payvand.com/news/08/sep/1019.html</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com.au/books?id=RTGc9YH-C38C&source=gbs_navlinks_s ''Ancient Near Eastern art''] by Dominique Collon</ref> and [[Chogha Mish]] dating back to 6800 BC.<ref>''Chogha Mish (Iran)'', By K. Kris Hirst - http://archaeology.about.com/od/cterms/g/choghamish.htm</ref><ref name="xinhuaciv">[http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-08/10/content_6508609.htm Xinhua, "New evidence: modern civilization began in Iran", 10 Aug 2007]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref> started to form in the western Iran.
Dozens of [[Prehistory|pre-historic]] sites across the Iranian plateau point to the existence of ancient cultures and urban settlements in the [[fourth millennium BC]],<ref name="xinhuaciv">[http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-08/10/content_6508609.htm Xinhua, "New evidence: modern civilization began in Iran", 10 August 2007]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref><ref name="iran-daily">[http://www.iran-daily.com/1385/2795/html/panorama.htm Iran Daily, "Panorama", 3 March 2007]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref><ref name="iranian.ws">[http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_22427.shtml Iranian.ws, "Archaeologists: Modern civilization began in Iran based on new evidence", 12 August 2007]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref> centuries before the earliest civilizations arose in nearby [[Mesopotamia]].<ref>[http://oi.uchicago.edu/OI/MUS/VOL/NN_SUM94/NN_Sum94.html University of Chicago]. Retrieved 2006-04-29.</ref>

===Early history (3200 BC – 625 BC)===
{{Main|Tappeh Sialk|Jiroft civilization|Elamite kingdom|Mannaeans}}

[[File:Mappa di Eratostene.jpg|thumb|19th century reconstruction of a map of the world by [[Eratosthenes]], [[Circa|c.]]200 BC. The name Ariana (Aryânâ) was used to describe the region where the [[Iranian Plateau]] is found.]]

Elam was part of the early [[Cities of the Ancient Near East|urbanization]] during the [[Chalcolithic]]. The emergence of written records from around 3000 BC also parallels Mesopotamian history. In the Old Elamite period ([[Middle Bronze Age]]), from around 2800 BC, Elam consisted of kingdoms on the [[Iranian plateau]], centered in [[Anshan (Persia)|Anshan]], and from the mid-[[2nd millennium BC]], it was centered in [[Susa]] in the [[Khuzestan]] lowlands. [[Elamite kingdom]] continued its existence until the emergence of [[Median Empire|Median]] and [[Achaemenid Empire]]s.

[[Proto-Iranian]]s first emerged following the separation of [[Indo-Iranians]], and are traced to the [[Andronovo culture]].<ref name="Panshin">[http://www.panshin.com/trogholm/wonder/indoeuropean/indoeuropean3.html "The Palaeolithic Indo-Europeans"]—Panshin.com. Retrieved 4 June 2006.</ref> [[Aryan]], ([[Ancient Iranian peoples|Proto-Iranian]]) tribes arrived in the [[Iranian plateau]] in the third and second [[millennium]] BC, probably in more than one wave of emigration, and settled as nomads.

Further separation of Proto-Iranians into "Eastern" and "Western" groups occurred due to migration. By the first millennium BC, [[Medes]], [[Persian people|Persians]], [[Bactria]]ns and [[Parthia]]ns populated the western part, while [[Cimmerians]], [[Sarmatians]] and [[Alans]] populated the steppes north of the [[Black Sea]].

Other tribes began to settle on the eastern edge, as far as on the mountainous frontier of the north-western [[Indian subcontinent]] and into the area which is now [[Balochistan (region)|Balochistan]]. Others, such as the [[Scythia]]n tribes, spread as far west as the [[Balkans]] and as far east as [[Xinjiang]]. [[Avestan]] is an eastern Old [[Iranian language]] that was used to compose the sacred hymns and canon of the [[Zoroastrianism|Zoroastrian]] [[Gathas]] in c. 1000 BC.

===Pre-Islamic statehood (625 BC – 651 AD)===
{{Main|Median Empire|Achaemenid Empire|Seleucid Empire|Parthian Empire|Sassanid Empire}}
{{See also|Greco-Persian Wars|Roman-Persian Wars|Roman relations with the Parthians and Sassanids}}

[[File:Cyrus cilinder.jpg|thumb|130px|The [[Cyrus Cylinder]] a document issued by Cyrus the Great and [[Cyrus cylinder#As a charter of human rights|regarded by some as a charter of human rights]].]]
The [[Medes]] are credited with the unification<ref name="Encyclopædia Britannica Encyclopedia Article: Media ancient region, Iran"/> of Iran as a nation and empire (625<ref name="Encyclopædia Britannica Encyclopedia Article: Media ancient region, Iran"/>–559  BC), the largest of its day, until [[Cyrus the Great]] established a unified empire of the Medes and [[Persian people|Persians]] leading to the Achaemenid Empire (559–330  BC), and further unification between peoples and cultures. After Cyrus' death, his son [[Cambyses]] continued his father's work of conquest, making significant gains in Egypt.

Following a power struggle after Cambyses' death, [[Darius I]] was declared king (ruled 522–486 BC). Under [[Cyrus the Great]] and [[Darius the Great]], the Persian Empire eventually became the largest and most powerful empire in human history up until that point.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/PERSIANS.HTM|title=The Persians|accessdate=2006-08-20}}</ref> The borders of the [[Achaemenid Empire|Persian empire]] stretched from the [[Indus]] and [[Oxus]] Rivers in the east to the Mediterranean Sea in the west, extending through [[Anatolia]] (modern day Turkey) and Egypt.

[[File:Achaemenid Empire.jpg|thumb|left|230px|The [[Achaemenid Empire]] at its greatest extent, at about 500 BC]]

In 499 BC, Athens lent support to a revolt in [[Miletus]] which resulted in the sacking of [[Sardis]]. This led to an Achaemenid campaign against Greece known as the [[Greco-Persian Wars]] which continued through the first half of the 5th century BC. During the [[Greco-Persian wars]] Persia made some major advances and razed Athens in 480 BC, but after a string of Greek victories the Persians were forced to withdraw. Fighting ended with the [[peace of Callias]] in 449 BC.

The rules and ethics emanating from [[Zoroaster]]'s teachings were strictly followed by the Achaemenids who introduced and adopted policies based on [[human rights]], [[equality before the law|equality]] and banning of [[slavery]].{{Citation needed|date=September 2010}} Zoroastrianism spread unimposed during the time of the Achaemenids and through contacts with the exiled [[Jewish]] people in [[Babylon]] freed by Cyrus, Zoroastrian concepts further propagated and influenced the [[Abrahamic religions]]. The [[Golden Age of Athens]] marked by [[Aristotle]], [[Plato]] and [[Socrates]] also came about during the Achaemenid period while their contacts with Persia and the Near East abounded. The peace, tranquility, security and prosperity that were afforded to the people of the [[Near East]] and [[Southeastern Europe]] proved to be a rare historical occurrence, an unparalleled period where commerce prospered and the standard of living for all people of the region improved.<ref name="vohuman">[http://www.vohuman.org/Article/Historical%20perspective%20on%20Zoroastrianism.htm Vohuman.org], "Historical perspective on Zoroastrianism", Reproduced from Âtaš-è Dorün — The Fire Within, Jamshid Soroush Soroushian Memorial Volume II, 1st Books Library, Bloomington, IN, 2003. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref>

In 334 BC, [[Alexander the Great]] invaded the Achaemenid Empire, defeating the last Achaemenid Emperor [[Darius III]] at the [[Battle of Issus]] in 333 BC. He left the annexed territory in 328–327. In each of the former Achaemenid territories he installed his own officers as caretakers, which led to friction and ultimately to the [[Partition of Babylon|partitioning of the former empire]] after Alexander's death, and the subsequent formation of the [[Seleucid Empire]].

[[File:Parthian Queen Bust.jpg|thumb|upright|120px|A bust from the [[National Museum of Iran]] of [[Queen Musa]]]]

The Parthian Empire (238 BC–226 AD), led by the Arsacid Dynasty, was the third [[Iranian Peoples|Iranian]] kingdom to dominate the Iranian plateau, after defeating the [[Classical Greece|Greek]] [[Seleucid Empire]], beginning in the late 3rd century BC, and intermittently controlled [[Mesopotamia]] between ca. 150 BC and 224 AD. This was the third native dynasty of ancient Iran and lasted five centuries.
After the conquests of [[Medes|Media]], [[Assyria]], [[Babylonia]] and [[Elam]], the Parthians had to organize their empire. The former elites of these countries were [[Greeks|Greek]], and the new rulers had to adapt to their customs if they wanted their rule to last. As a result, the cities retained their ancient rights and civil administrations remained more or less undisturbed.

Parthia was the arch-enemy of the [[Roman Empire]] in the east, limiting Rome's expansion beyond [[Cappadocia]] (central [[Anatolia]]). By using a heavily armed and armoured [[cataphract]] cavalry, and lightly armed but highly mobile [[Horse archer|mounted archers]], the Parthians "held their own against Rome for almost 300 years".<ref>''Persians: Masters of Empire'', 1995, ISBN 0-8094-9104-4, p.142–143, Time-life Books</ref> Rome's acclaimed general [[Mark Antony]] led a disastrous campaign against the Parthians in 36 BC, in which he lost 32,000 men. By the time of Roman emperor [[Augustus]], Rome and Parthia were settling some of their differences through diplomacy. By this time, Parthia had acquired an assortment of golden eagles, the cherished [[Aquila (Roman)|standards of Rome's legions]], captured from Mark Antony, and [[Crassus]], who suffered a defeat at [[Carrhae]] in 53 BC.<ref>Cotterell, Arthur. ''From Aristotle to Zoroaster: An a to Z Companion to the Classical World.'' 1998. p.272, Free Press</ref>

[[File:Bas relief nagsh-e-rostam al.jpg|thumb|left|160px|Rock-face relief at [[Naqsh-e Rustam]] of Iranian emperor Shapur I (on horseback) capturing [[Valerian (emperor)|Roman emperor Valerian]] (kneeling) and Philip the Arab (standing)]]

The end of the Parthian Empire came in 224 AD, when the empire was loosely organized and the last king was defeated by Ardashir I, one of the empire's vassals. Ardashir I then went on to create the Sassanid Empire. Soon he started reforming the country both economically and militarily. The Sassanids established an empire roughly within the frontiers achieved by the Achaemenids, referring to it as ''Erânshahr'' or ''Iranshahr'', ''[[File:Eranshahr.svg|60px]]'', "Dominion of the Aryans", (i.e. of [[Iranian peoples|Iranians]]), with their capital at [[Ctesiphon]].<ref>Garthwaite, Gene R., ''The Persians'', p. 2, ISBN 1-4051-5680-5, Wiley-Blackwell (2006)</ref> Unlike the [[diadochi]]c Seleucids and the succeeding Arsacids, who used a [[vassal state|vassalary system]], the Sassanids—like the Achaemenids—had a system of governors (MP: ''shahrab'') personally appointed by the Emperor and directed by the central government. The Romans suffered repeated losses particularly by Ardashir I, [[Shapur I]], and [[Shapur II]].<ref>Lorentz, John H. ''Historical Dictionary of Iran.''Asian Historical Dictionaries; No.16. 1995. ISBN 978-0-8108-2994-7, p.189</ref> During their reign, Sassanid battles with the [[Roman Empire]] caused such pessimism in [[Rome]] that the historian [[Cassius Dio]] wrote:

[[File:Scythia-Parthia 100 BC.png|thumb|150px|Geographical extent of Iranian influence in the 1st century BC. The [[Parthia]]n Empire (mostly [[Western Iranian languages|Western Iranian]]) is shown in red, other areas, dominated by [[Scythia]] (mostly [[Eastern Iranian languages|Eastern Iranian]]), in orange.]]

{{Cquote
|''Here was a source of great fear to us. So formidable does the Sassanid king seem to our eastern legions, that some are liable to go over to him, and others are unwilling to fight at all''.<ref>Arthur Cotterell, ''From Aristotle to Zoroaster: An a to Z Companion to the Classical World''. 1998. ISBN 0-684-85596-8, p.344–345, Free Press</ref>}}
[[File:Persepolis The Persian Soldiers.jpg|thumb|left|160px|Persian and Median soldiers at [[Persepolis]]]]
In 632 raiders from the Arab peninsula began attacking the [[Sassanid Empire]]. Iran was defeated in the [[Battle of al-Qâdisiyah]], paving way for the [[Islamic conquest of Persia]].

During the Parthian and later [[Sassanid]] eras, trade on the [[Silk Road]] was a significant factor in the development of the great [[civilization]]s of China, [[Ancient Egypt|Egypt]], [[Mesopotamia]], Persia, [[Indian subcontinent]], and [[Ancient Rome|Rome]], and helped to lay the foundations for the modern world. Parthian remains display classical Greek influences in some instances and retain their oriental mode in others, a clear expression of the cultural diversity that characterized Parthian art and life.<ref>''Persians: Masters of Empire'', 1995, ISBN 0-8094-9104-4, p.134, Time-life Books</ref>

The Parthians were [[Parthian style (Iranian architecture)|innovators of many architecture designs]] such as that of [[Ctesiphon]], which later influenced European [[Romanesque architecture]].<ref>''Persians: Masters of Empire'', 1995, ISBN 0-8094-9104-4, p.138, Time-life Books</ref><ref>''"Even the architecture of the Christian church, with its hallowed chancel seems inspired by the designs of [[Mithra]]ic temples"''. [[Abbas Milani]]. ''Lost Wisdom''. 2004. Mage Publishers. p.13. ISBN 0-934211-90-6</ref> Under the Sassanids, Iran [[Iran-China relations|expanded relations with China]]. Arts, [[Sassanid music|music]], and [[Sassanid architecture|architecture]] greatly flourished, and centers such as the [[School of Nisibis]] and [[Academy of Gundishapur]] became world renowned centers of science and scholarship.

===Middle Ages (652–1501)===
{{Main|Islamization in Iran|Abbasid Caliphate|Tahirid dynasty|Saffarid dynasty|Samanid dynasty|Ziyarid dynasty|Buyid dynasty|Ghaznavid dynasty|Seljuk Empire|Khwārazm-Shāh dynasty}}

[[File:Iran circa 1000AD.png|thumb|Map of Iranian Dynasties c. 1000]]
After the [[Islamic conquest of Persia]], most of the urban lands of the [[Sassanid empire]], with the exception of Caspian provinces and Transoxiana, came under Islamic rule.<ref name="Ehsan">Encyclopedia Iranica, "Iran in the Islamic Period (651–1980s)", E. Yarshater. [http://www.iranica.com/newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/unicode/v13f3/v13f3001a.html Iranica.com]</ref>
Many provinces in Iran defended themselves against the Arab invaders, although none in the end were able to repulse the invaders. However, when the Arabs had subdued the country, many of the cities rose in rebellions, killing Arab governors, although reinforcement by Arab armies succeeded in putting down the rebellions.

However, the Iranians' conversion to Islam was a complex process and is generally considered to have been gradual; the notion of force has largely been discredited,<ref>"Conversion: Of Iranians to Islam." by Elton L. Daniel in Encyclopedia Iranica. [http://www.iranica.com/newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/unicode/v6f3/v6f3a001.html Iranica.com]</ref> although occasional acts of violence did take place, with Zoroastrian scriptures being burned and Zoroastrian priests being executed.<ref name="Ehsan"/><ref>آثار الباقیه، ابوریحان بیرونی، انتشارات امیرکبیر، 1377، ص 7۵ [[Biruni]] states: {{bquote|When [[Qutaibah bin Muslim|Qutaibah bin Moslem]] under the command of Al-Ḥajjāj ibn Yūsuf was sent to [[Khwarazmia]] with a military expedition and conquered it for the second time, he swiftly killed whoever wrote in the [[Khwarezmian language|Khwarazmian native language]] and knew of the Khwarazmian heritage, history, and culture. He then killed all their [[Zoroastrian]] priests and burned and wasted their books, until gradually only the illiterate remained, who knew nothing of writing, and hence the regions history was mostly forgotten.}}</ref>

By the 9th century, Islam became a dominant religion in Persia and the conversion of Iranians to Islam brought profound changes to their life and culture.<ref name="Ehsan"/> However, in some regions, such as the Fars province, Zoroastrianism remained strong up to the 9th century, although [[Sufis]] such as Abu Eshaq Kazeruni, the founder of Kazeruni Sufi order, brought mass conversion of Zoroastrians to Islam in the 10th century.<ref name="Ehsan"/>

During the Abbasid caliphate decline, independent<ref>[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/516118/Saffarid-dynasty "Ṣaffārid Dynasty"], [[Encyclopædia Britannica]], 2009. [[Encyclopædia Britannica Online]], 15 March 2009</ref><ref>[http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/520234/Samanid-dynasty "Sāmānid Dynasty"], Encyclopædia Britannica, 2009. Encyclopædia Britannica Online, 15 March 2009</ref> and semi-independent native Iranian dynasties arose in different parts of Persia including the [[Tahirids]], [[Saffarids]], [[Samanids]], [[Afrighids]], [[Ghurids]], [[Sallarid]], [[Justanids]], [[Shaddadids]] and [[Buyids]]. Socially, the Arabs abolished the previous social class system of Sassanians while later, especially under the Ummayyads, another form of discrimination and exclusion against non-Arabs evolved.<ref>"Class System", in [http://www.iranica.com/newsite/index.isc?Article=http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/unicode/v5f6/v5f6a028.html Encyclopedia Iranica.]</ref> In reaction to these, [[Abu Muslim|Abu Moslem]], an Iranian<ref>Joel Carmichael, "The Shaping of the Arabs: A Study in Ethnic Identity", Published by Macmillan, 1967. pg 235. Excerpt: "Abu Muslim, the Persian general and popular leader".</ref><ref>Richard Nelson Frye, "Iran", Edition: 2, revised Published by G. Allen & Unwin, 1960. p. 47: "A Persian Muslim called Abu Muslim.</ref> general, expelled the [[Umayyad]]s from [[Damascus]] and helped the [[Abbasid]] caliphs to conquer [[Baghdad]]. The [[Abbasid]] caliphs frequently chose their Iranians as their "[[Vizier|wazirs]]" (viziers), and Iranian governors acquired a certain amount of local autonomy. Thus in 822, the governor of Khorasan, [[Tahir II of Khorasan|Tahir]], proclaimed his independence and founded a new Persian dynasty of [[Tahirid dynasty|Tahirids]]. And by the [[Samanid]] era, Iran's efforts to regain its independence had been well solidified.<ref>Bosworth C. E., Cambridge History of Iran, vol. 4, p. 90.</ref>

Attempts at [[Arabization]] thus never succeeded in Iran, and movements such as the [[Shuubiyah]] became catalysts for Iranians to regain their independence in their relations with the Arab invaders.<ref>C.E. Bosworth, "Ajam" in Encyclopedia Iranica: ''But by the 3rd/9th century, the non-Arabs, and above all the Persians, were asserting their social and cultural equality (taswīa) with the Arabs, if not their superiority (tafżīl) over them (a process seen in the literary movement of the Šoʿūbīya). In any case, there was always in some minds a current of admiration for the ʿAǰam as heirs of an ancient, cultured tradition of life''.</ref> Other notable major revolts, some by Iranian Muslims and others by practitioners of old Iranian religions against Arab rule were led by [[Al-Muqanna]], [[Sunpadh]], [[Khurramites]], [[Babak Khorramdin]], [[Maziar]], [[Mardavij]], [[Ustadh Sis]] and [[Ya'qub-i Laith Saffari]].

The cultural revival of the post-[[Abbasid]] period led to a resurfacing of Iranian national identity. The resulting cultural movement reached its peak during the 9th and 10th centuries. The most notable effect of the movement was the continuation of the [[Persian language]], the official language of Iran to the present day. [[Ferdowsi]], Iran's greatest epic poet, is regarded today as the most important figure in maintaining the Persian language. After an interval of silence Iran re-emerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam.
[[File:Khwarezmian Empire 1190 - 1220 (AD).PNG|thumb|left|180px|[[Khwarezmid Empire]] around 1200]]
In 1218, the eastern [[Khwarezmian Empire|Khwarazmid]] provinces of [[Transoxiana]] and [[Greater Khorasan|Khorasan]] suffered a devastating [[invasion]] by [[Genghis Khan]]. During this period more than half of Iran's population was killed,<ref>The memoirs of [[Edward Teller]], ''[[Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory]] "Science and Technology Review"''. July/August 1998 p. 20. Link: [http://www.llnl.gov/str/pdfs/07_98.pdf LLNL.org]</ref> turning the streets of Persian cities such as [[Neishabur]] into "rivers of blood", as the severed heads of men, women, and children were "neatly stacked into carefully constructed pyramids around which the carcasses of the city's dogs and cats were placed".<ref>[[Sandra Mackey|Mackey, S.]]. ''The Iranians: Persia, Islam, and the soul of a nation''. 1996. ISBN 0-525-94005-7. p. 69.</ref> Between 1220 and 1260, the total population of Iran had dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass [[murder|extermination]] and [[famine]].<ref>[http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch618/Ibn_Battuta/Battuta's_Trip_Three.html Battuta's Travels: Part Three — Persia and Iraq]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref>

In a letter to King [[Louis IX of France]], [[Hulagu Khan|Holaku]], one of the [[Genghis Khan]]'s grandsons, took sole responsibility for 200,000 deaths in his raids of Iran and the Caliphate.<ref>[[Sandra Mackey|Mackey, S.]]. ''The Iranians: Persia, Islam, and the soul of a nation''. 1996. ISBN 0-525-94005-7. p. 70.</ref> He was followed by yet another conqueror, [[Timur|Tamerlane]], who established his capital in [[Samarkand]].<ref>[http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/oldwrld/armies/tamerlane.html Old World Contacts/Armies/Tamerlane]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> The waves of devastation prevented many cities such as [[Neishabur]] from reaching their pre-invasion population levels until the 20th century, eight centuries later.<ref>Mackey, S. ''The Iranians: Persia, Islam, and the soul of a nation''. 1996. ISBN 0-525-94005-7. p. 69.</ref>

In 1387, Tamerlane avenged a revolt in Isfahan by massacring 70,000 people.<ref>[http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Irans-Hidden-Jewel.html?c=y&page=2 Isfahan: Iran's Hidden Jewel]. ''Smithsonian Magazine.''</ref> But both [[Hulagu Khan|Hulagu]], Tamerlane, and their successors soon came to adopt the ways and customs of that which they had conquered, choosing to surround themselves with a culture that was distinctively Persian.<ref>Bertold Spuler. ''The Muslim World. Vol. I The Age of the Caliphs.'' Leiden. E.J. Brill. 1960 ISBN 0-685-23328-6 p. 29.</ref> The mid-14th-century [[Black Death]] killed about 30% of the country's population.<ref>[http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/kelly200509140843.asp Q&A with John Kelly on The Great Mortality on National Review Online].</ref>

[[File:Jami Rose Garden.jpg|thumb|140px|Illustration from [[Jami]] ''"Rose Garden of the Pious"'', dated 1553. The image blends [[Persian literature|Persian poetry]] and [[Persian miniature]] into one, as is the norm for many works of the Timurid era.]]

Iran was gradually Islamized after the collapse of the [[Sassanid empire]]; however, it was not Arabized. Iranian culture re-emerged with a separate and distinctive character and made an immense contribution to the Islamic civilization.<ref name="LewisIranHistory">Bernard Lewis, "Iran in History", [http://www.tau.ac.il/dayancenter/mel/lewis.pdf TAU.ac.il] excerpt: "Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians. And after an interval of silence, Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam, eventually adding a new element even to Islam itself. Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples: to the Turks, first in Central Asia and then in the Middle East in the country which came to be called Turkey, and of course to India. The Ottoman Turks brought a form of Iranian civilization to the walls of Vienna."</ref><ref>Grunebaum, G. V. von. "The sources of Islamic civilization." Islamic Society and Civilization. Eds. P. M. Holt, Ann K. S. Lambton and Bernard Lewis. Cambridge University Press, 1970. Cambridge Histories Online. Cambridge University Press. p. 501: "In some ways, the Persian components of Islamic civilization are more difficult to separate out than the Hellenic precisely because they are more fully integrated and have become effective on so many levels. In fact, the Muslim world itself, without necessarily putting this judgment in analytical terms, has long since come to accept Islamic civilization as 'Perso-Islamic synthesis'.</ref> When Islam came through Iran, what developed was an Iranian Islam or Persian Islam rather than the original Arab Islam, and this new Islam is sometimes referred to by scholars as Islam-i Ajam (Persian Islam).<ref name="LewisIranHistory"/><ref>Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Mehdi Amin Razavi,"The Islamic intellectual tradition in Persia", RoutledgeCurzon; annotated edition edition (4 July 1996). p. 157: "The appearance of the school of Ishraq meant both the guarantee of the propagation of Islamic philosophy in a form that was clearer to the heart of Islam than the earlier schools of thoughts, and also the creation of a school that was particularly close to the ethos of Persian Islam and spread wherever Persian Islamic culture was dominant.</ref>

It was this Persian Islam and Sufism which was brought to new areas and new peoples such as the Turks of Central Asia, the Ottoman Empire, and the Indian subcontinent.<ref name="LewisIranHistory"/> Among the major [[Iranian peoples|Iranian]] Muslims who cultivated [[Sufism]] and helped the spread of [[Islam]] through Sufism, one can mention Habib Ajami, [[Hallaj]], [[Hasan Basri]], [[Junayd Baghdadi]], [[Bayazid Bistami]], [[Maruf Karkhi]], [[Abdul Qadir Jilani]], [[Moinuddin Chishti]], [[Jalaluddin Rumi]], [[Najmuddin Kubra]], and [[Baha-ud-Din Naqshband Bukhari]]. Note should also be made of [[Abu Hanifa]], the founder of the [[Hanafi]] school of thought which is followed by most Muslims today.

Arabic writer [[Ibn Khaldun]] has remarked that the sedentary culture which was necessary for the development of civilization was rooted in the Persian empire.<ref name="Franz Rosenthal 1969">The Muqaddimah By Ibn Khaldūn translated by Franz Rosenthal, N. J. Dawood, Published by Princeton University Press, 1969.</ref>

One of the main developments after the advent of Islam in Iran was the rise of the [[Persian language|New Persian language]] as an important [[Indo-European]] language. The New Persian language was an evolution of [[Middle Persian]], which in turn was derived from [[Old Persian]]. New Persian absorbed a considerable amount of Arabic vocabulary<ref>Professor. Gilbert Lazard: ''The language known as New Persian, which usually is called at this period (early Islamic times) by the name of Dari or Parsi-Dari, can be classified linguistically as a continuation of Middle Persian, the official religious and literary language of Sassanian Iran, itself a continuation of Old Persian, the language of the Achaemenids. Unlike the other languages and dialects, ancient and modern, of the Iranian group such as [[Avestan]], [[Parthia]]n, [[Soghdian]], [[Kurdish people|Kurdish]], [[Pashto]], etc., Old [[Middle Persian|Middle]] and New Persian represent one and the same language at three states of its history. It had its origin in [[Fars Province|Fars]] (the true Persian country from the historical point of view) and is differentiated by dialectical features, still easily recognizable from the dialect prevailing in north-western and eastern Iran'' in (Lazard, Gilbert 1975, “The Rise of the New Persian Language” in Frye, R. N., The Cambridge History of Iran, Vol. 4, pp. 595–632, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.</ref><ref>Lazard, Gilbert, "Pahlavi, Pârsi, dari: Les langues d'Iran d'apès Ibn al-Muqaffa" in R.N. Frye, "Iran and Islam. In Memory of the late Vladimir Minorsky", Edinburgh University Press, 1971.</ref> during this era, although the Arabic vocabulary that was Persianized<ref>Ann K. S. Lambton, "Persian grammar ", Cambridge University Press, Cambridge University Press 1953. Excerpt: "The Arabic words incorporated into the Persian language have become Persianized".</ref> often took a different meaning than the [[Arabic]] origin. In terms of contribution to the Arabic language, Iranians like Sibawayhi<ref>M. G. Carter, "Sibawayhi", Published by I.B.Tauris, 2004. p. 9: "That Sibawayhi was by origin a Persian who came or was taken to Basra seems to be beyond challenge."</ref> pioneered writing books of grammar of the Arabic language.

Culturally, Iranians preserved their language, while they used [[Arabic language|Arabic]] for scientific and philosophical discourses;<ref name="chi-398">{{Cite book
|title=The Cambridge History of Iran
|volume=4
|publisher=Cambridge University Press
|year=1975
|pages=397–398
|isbn=0521200938
|author=William Bayne Fisher, Richard Nelson Frye, John Andrew Boyle }}</ref> this enabled them to reach a worldwide audience for the first time.<ref name="chi-398"/> After the 10th century, Persian, written in the modified Perso-Arabic script alongside Arabic, was used for scientific, philosophical, historical, mathematical, musical, and medical works, as important Iranian writers such as [[Nasir al-Din al-Tusi]], [[Avicenna]], [[Qotb al-Din Shirazi]], [[Zakhira-i Khwarizmshahi|Gurgani]], [[Naser Khusraw]], [[Biruni]], [[Abdul Qadir Maraghi]] made contributions to Persian scientific writing.

During this era, Iranians continued on a much larger scale the cultural and scientific enterprises set up by the [[Sassanids]].<ref name=chi4-nasr/> The blossoming [[Persian literature]], [[Iranian philosophy|philosophy]], [[Science and technology in Iran|medicine]], and [[Persian art|art]] became major elements in the forming Muslim civilization. The [[Islamic Golden Age]], which is characterized by developments in science, owed to a large extent its importance to vital contributions made by Iranians.<ref>
*Robert Palter, Solomon Gandz, "Toward Modern Science: Studies in ancient and medieval science", Published by Noonday Press, 1961, p. 180: "The so called golden age of Islamic science owed its importance to largely to the Persian contribution."
*Ehsan Yarshater, "The Persian Presence in the Islamic World" in Richard G. Hovannisian, Georges Sabagh, "The Persian Presence in the Islamic World", Published by Cambridge University Press, 1997. pp. 6–7: "The Golden age of Islam, as the early Abbassid period has been labeled, was distinguished by intellectual advances, literary innovations, and cultural exuberance attributable, in no small measure, to the vital participation of Persian men of letters, philosophers, theologians, grammarians, mathematicians, musicians, astronomers, geographers, and physicians"
*Bernard Lewis, "Iran in History", excerpt: "Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution." [http://www.tau.ac.il/dayancenter/mel/lewis.pdf TAU.ac.il]</ref> The [[Islamic Golden Age]] reached its peak in the 10th and 11th centuries, during which Persia was the main theatre of scientific activity.<ref name=chi4-nasr>William Bayne Fisher, et al., ''The Cambridge History of Iran 4'' Published by Cambridge University Press, 1975, ISBN 0-521-20093-8, p. 396.</ref> The Persian influence of this period relied heavily upon the achievements of the [[Sassanids]], and the weight of this influence has led the Muslim world to accept Islamic civilization as the ''Perso-Islamic civilization''.<ref>The following references give comprehensive analysis and clarification of the terms "ersian influence" and "perso-islamic" and the relation to Sassanids and the impact on Islamic cultures:
*Marilyn Robinson Waldman, ''Toward a Theory of Historical Narrative: A Case Study in Perso-Islamicate Historiography'', Published by Ohio State University Press, 1980, ISBN 0-8142-0297-7, p. 30.
*Richard M. Eaton, ''The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204–1760'', Published by [[University of California Press]], 1996, ISBN 0-520-20507-3, p. 28.
*Richard G. Hovannisian (ed.), ''The Persian Presence in the Islamic World'', Published by [[Cambridge University Press]], 1997, ISBN 0-521-59185-6. p. 78.
*P. M. Holt, et al. ''The Cambridge History of Islam: Volume 2B'', Published by Cambridge University Press, 1977, ISBN 0-521-29138-0. p. 501.</ref>

Even in the development of Arabic scientific prose itself, which differs in style from that of the [[Quran]], Persian scholars such as [[Ibn al-Muqaffa]] had a major role. Indeed, the class of clerks and civil administrators that was responsible for the cultivation of the sciences in the early Islamic centuries consisted mostly of Persians.<ref>William Bayne Fisher, et al., ''The Cambridge History of Iran 4'' Published by Cambridge University Press, 1975, ISBN 0-521-20093-8, p. 397.</ref> The contributions of Iranians to the Arabic language are however not limited to scientific prose but are also found in Arabic poetry. The contributions by Iranians are characterised as "the lively and graceful fancy, elegance of diction, depth and tenderness of feeling, and a rich store of ideas".<ref>Reynold Alleyne Nicholson. ''A Literary History of the Arabs'', Published by Routledge, 1995, ISBN 0-7007-0336-5, p. 290.</ref>

[[Iranian philosophy]] after the Islamic conquest is characterized by different interactions with Old Iranian philosophy, with [[Greek philosophy]], and with the development of [[Islamic philosophy]]. The [[Illumination School]] and [[Transcendent Philosophy]] are regarded as two of the main philosophical traditions of this era in Persia. These movements continued well into the 11th century, during which the [[Nizamiyya]] University was founded, and [[List of Iranian scientists and scholars|hundreds of Iranian scholars and scientists]] contributed greatly to technology, science, and medicine, later influencing the rise of European sciences during [[the Renaissance]].<ref>Kühnel E., in ''Zeitschrift der deutschen morgenländischen Gesell'', Vol. CVI (1956).</ref>

===Early modern era (1501–1921)===
{{Main|Safavid Dynasty|Afsharid Dynasty|Zand Dynasty|Qajar Dynasty}}{{See also|Russo-Persian Wars (disambiguation)|Anglo-Persian War|Iranian Constitutional Revolution}}
[[File:Сефи 1й 1629-42.jpg|thumb|upright|130px|[[Shah Ismail I]], the founder of the [[Safavid Dynasty]] (1501–1736)]]
Iran's first encompassing [[Shi'a Islam]]ic state was established under the [[Safavid Dynasty]] (1501–1722) by [[Shah Ismail I]]. The Safavid dynasty soon became a major political power and promoted the flow of bilateral state contacts. The Safavid peak was during the rule of [[Shah Abbas I|Shah Abbas The Great]].<ref name="islamic1600">[http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/islam/empires/safavid/abbas.html "The Islamic World to 1600", The Applied History Research Group, The University of Calgary, 1998]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref> The [[Safavid Dynasty]] frequently warred with the [[Ottoman Empire]], [[Uzbekistan|Uzbek]] tribes and the [[Portuguese Empire]].

[[File:Sattar Khan.jpg|thumb|left|upright|130px|[[Sattar Khan]] was a key figure in the [[Iranian Constitutional Revolution]]]]
The Safavids moved their capital from [[Tabriz]] to [[Qazvin]] and then to [[Isfahan]], where their patronage for the arts propelled Iran into one of its most aesthetically productive eras. Under their rule, the state became highly centralized, the first attempts to modernize the military were made, and even [[Isfahani style (Iranian architecture)|a distinct style of architecture developed]]. In 1722 [[Pashtun people|Pashtun]] rebels headed by the [[Hotaki dynasty|Hotakis]] of [[Kandahar]] defeated [[Husayn (Safavid)|Shah Sultan Hossein]] and ended the Safavid Dynasty, but in 1735, [[Nader Shah]] successfully drove out the Pashtuns from Isfahan and established the [[Afsharid Dynasty]].

He then staged an incursion into India in 1738, securing the [[Peacock throne]], [[Koh-i-Noor]], and [[Darya-ye Noor]] among other [[Royal family|royal]] treasures. His rule did not last long, however, as he was assassinated in 1747. The [[Mashhad]] based Afshar Dynasty was succeeded by the [[Zand dynasty]] in 1750, founded by [[Karim Khan]], who established his capital at [[Shiraz]]. His rule brought a period of relative peace and renewed prosperity.

The Zand dynasty lasted three generations, until [[Mohammad Khan Qajar|Aga Muhammad Khan]] executed [[Lotf Ali Khan]], and founded his new capital in [[Tehran]], marking the dawn of the [[Qajar|Qajar Dynasty]] in 1794. The [[Qajar]] chancellor [[Amir Kabir]] established [[Dar ul-Funun|Iran's first modern college]] system, among other modernizing reforms. Iran suffered [[Russo-Persian Wars (disambiguation)|several wars with Imperial Russia]] during the [[Qajar]] era, resulting in Iran losing almost half of its territories to [[Imperial Russia]] and the [[British Empire]], via the treaties of [[Treaty of Gulistan|Gulistan]], [[Treaty of Turkmenchay|Turkmenchay]] and [[Treaty of Akhal|Akhal]]. The Great Persian Famine of 1870–1871 is believed to have caused the death of 2 million persons.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0041-977X%281986%2949%3A1%3C183%3ATGPFO1%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Q&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage |title=The Great Persian Famine of 1870–1871 |publisher=Links.jstor.org |date= |accessdate=2010-08-25}}</ref>

In spite of [[The Great Game]] Iran managed to maintain her sovereignty and was never colonized, unlike neighbouring states in the region. Repeated foreign intervention and a corrupt and weakened Qajar rule led to [[Tobacco Protest|various protests]], which by the end of the Qajar period resulted in [[Iranian Constitutional Revolution|Iran's constitutional revolution]] establishing [[Majles|the nation's first parliament]] in 1906, within a [[constitutional monarchy]].

===Recent history (1921–present)===
{{Main|Pahlavi Dynasty|Iranian Revolution|History of the Islamic Republic of Iran|Iran–Iraq War|2009 Iranian election protests}}
{{See|1953 Iranian coup d'état}}
[[File:Mohammad Mosaddeq.jpg|thumb|100px|left|Prime Minister [[Mohammed Mosaddeq]]]]
In 1925, [[Reza Shah|Reza Khan]] overthrew the weakening [[Qajar Dynasty]] and became [[Shah]]. Reza Shah initiated [[industrialization]], [[Rail transport|railroad]] construction, and the establishment of a national [[Higher education in Iran|education]] system. Reza Shah sought to balance Russian and British influence, but when [[World War II]] started, his nascent ties to Germany alarmed Britain and Russia. In 1941, [[Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran|Britain and the USSR invaded Iran]] to use Iranian railroad capacity during [[World War II]]. The Shah was forced to abdicate in favor of his son, [[Mohammad Reza Pahlavi]].

In 1951, after the assassination of prime minister [[Ali Razmara]], Dr. [[Mohammed Mossadegh]] was elected [[Prime Minister of Iran|prime minister]] by a parliamentary vote which was then ratified by the Shah. As prime minister, Mossadegh became enormously popular in Iran after he [[nationalize]]d [[Petroleum industry in Iran|Iran's petroleum industry]] and oil reserves. In response, the British government, headed by [[Winston Churchill]], embargoed Iranian oil and successfully enlisted the United States to join in a plot to depose the democratically [[election|elected]] government of Mossadegh. In 1953 US President [[Dwight D. Eisenhower]] authorized [[Operation Ajax]]. The operation was successful, and Mossadegh was arrested on 19 August 1953. The coup was the first time the US had openly overthrown an elected, civilian government.<ref>[[Stephen Kinzer]]: ''[[All the Shah's Men]]. An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror'', John Wiley and Sons, 2003, p.x</ref>
[[File:Shah Farah.jpg|thumb|140px|[[Mohammad Reza Pahlavi]] and [[Farah Pahlavi|Empress Farah]] in official uniform]]
After Operation Ajax, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi's rule became increasingly [[autocracy|autocratic]]. With American support, the Shah was able to rapidly modernize Iranian infrastructure, but he simultaneously crushed all forms of political opposition with his intelligence agency, [[SAVAK]]. [[Ayatollah]] [[Ruhollah Khomeini]] became an active critic of the Shah's [[White Revolution]] and publicly denounced the government.

Khomeini was arrested and imprisoned for 18 months. After his release in 1964 Khomeini publicly criticized the United States government. The Shah was persuaded to send him into exile by General [[Hassan Pakravan]]. Khomeini was sent first to [[Turkey]], then to [[Iraq]] and finally to France. While in exile, he continued to denounce the Shah.

====Iranian Revolution====
The [[Iranian Revolution]], also known as the [[Islamic Revolution]],<ref>[http://www.iranchamber.com/history/islamic_revolution/islamic_revolution.php Islamic Revolution of 1979]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref><ref>[http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761588431/Islamic_Revolution_of_Iran.html Islamic Revolution of Iran], [[encarta]], retrieved 23 January 2008. [http://www.webcitation.org/query?id=1257012838707054 Archived] 2009-10-31.</ref><ref>Fereydoun Hoveyda, ''The Shah and the Ayatollah: Iranian Mythology and Islamic Revolution'' ISBN 0-275-97858-3, Praeger Publishers</ref> began in January 1978 with the first major demonstrations against the [[Shah]].<ref>[http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch29ir.html The Iranian Revolution]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> After strikes and demonstrations paralyzed the country and its economy, the [[Shah]] fled the country in January 1979 and [[Ayatollah Khomeini]] returned from exile to Tehran. The [[Pahlavi Dynasty]] collapsed ten days later, on 11 February, when Iran's military declared itself "neutral" after guerrillas and rebel troops overwhelmed troops loyal to the Shah in armed street fighting. Iran officially became an Islamic Republic on 1 April 1979, when Iranians overwhelmingly approved a national referendum to make it so.<ref name="britannica1"/><ref name="Britannica">[http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-32981 Encyclopædia Britannica] 23 January 2008</ref>

In December 1979, the country approved a [[theocratic]] constitution, whereby Khomeini became [[Supreme Leader]] of the country.
The speed and success of the revolution surprised many throughout the world,<ref>Jahangir Amuzegar, ''The Dynamics of the Iranian Revolution,'' (1991), p.4, 9–12 ISBN 0-7914-0731-4</ref> as it had not been precipitated by a military defeat, a financial crisis, or a peasant rebellion.<ref>Arjomand, ''Turban'' (1988), p. 191.</ref> Although both nationalists and Marxists joined with Islamic traditionalists to overthrow the Shah, tens of thousands were killed and executed by the Islamic regime afterward, and the revolution ultimately resulted in an Islamic Republic under [[Ayatollah]] [[Ruhollah Khomeini]].<ref name="Benard">Cheryl Benard, Zalmay Khalilzad, ''"The Government of God"'' ISBN 0-231-05376-2, Columbia University Press (1984), p. 18.</ref>
[[Image:Ruhollah Khomeini.jpg|thumb|110px|left|[[Ayatollah]] [[Khomeini]], founder of the Islamic Republic of Iran]]
Iran's [[US-Iran relations|relationship with the United States]] deteriorated rapidly during the revolution. On 4 November 1979, a group of Iranian students [[Iran hostage crisis|seized US embassy personnel]], labeling the embassy a "den of spies".<ref name="carterpbs">[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/sfeature/sf_hostage.html PBS, American Experience, Jimmy Carter, "444 Days: America Reacts"]. Retrieved 1 October 2007.</ref> They accused its personnel of being CIA agents plotting to overthrow the revolutionary government, as the CIA had done to [[Mohammad Mossadegh]] in 1953. While the student ringleaders had not asked for permission from [[Khomeini]] to seize the embassy, [[Khomeini]] nonetheless supported the embassy takeover after hearing of its success.<ref name="MarkBowden-Guests">Guests of the Ayatollah: The Iran Hostage Crisis: The First Battle in America's War with Militant Islam, Mark Bowden, p. 127 ISBN 0-8021-4303-2, Grove Press</ref>

While most of the [[female]] and [[African American]] hostages were released within the first months,<ref name="MarkBowden-Guests"/> the remaining 52 hostages were held for 444 days. Subsequent attempts by the [[Jimmy Carter]] administration to negotiate or [[Operation Eagle Claw|rescue]] were unsuccessful. In January 1981 the hostages were set free according to the [[Algiers declaration]].

Iraqi leader [[Saddam Hussein]] decided to take advantage of what he perceived to be disorder in the wake of the Iranian Revolution and its unpopularity with Western governments. The once-strong [[Iranian military]] had been disbanded during the revolution. Saddam sought to expand Iraq's access to the [[Persian Gulf]] by acquiring territories that Iraq had claimed earlier from Iran during the Shah's rule. Of chief importance to Iraq was [[Khuzestan Province|Khuzestan]] which not only has a substantial [[Arab]] population, but boasted rich oil fields as well. On the unilateral behalf of the [[United Arab Emirates]], the islands of [[Abu Musa]] and the [[Greater and Lesser Tunbs]] became objectives as well. On 22 September 1980 the Iraqi army invaded Iran at Khuzestan, precipitating the [[Iran–Iraq War]].

Although Saddam Hussein's forces made several early advances, by 1982, Iranian forces managed to push the Iraqi army back into Iraq. Khomeini sought to [[Export of revolution|export his Islamic revolution]] westward into Iraq, especially on the majority Shi'a Arabs living in the country. The war then continued for six more years until 1988, when Khomeini, in his words, "drank the cup of poison" and accepted a truce mediated by the United Nations. The total Iranian casualties of the war were estimated to be anywhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000; with more than 100,000 Iranians being victims of Iraq's chemical weapons.<ref name="r1">Centre for Documents of The Imposed War, Tehran. (مرکز مطالعات و تحقیقات جنگ)</ref> Almost all relevant international agencies have confirmed that Saddam engaged in chemical warfare to blunt Iranian [[human wave attack]]s; these agencies unanimously confirmed that Iran never used chemical weapons during the war.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1997/970205-480132.htm|title=News|publisher=FAS|accessdate=23 January 2008 }}</ref><ref>[http://www.fas.org/cw/intro.htm Federation of American Scientists] 23 January 2008</ref><ref>[http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Chemical/2340_2965.html NTI Chemical profile of Iran] 23 January 2008</ref>

Following the Iran–Iraq War President [[Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani]] and his administration concentrated on a pragmatic pro-business policy of rebuilding and strengthening the economy without making any dramatic break with the ideology of the revolution. Rafsanjani served until 1997 when he was succeeded by the moderate [[Iranian reform movement|reformist]] [[Mohammad Khatami]]. During his two terms as president, Khatami advocated [[freedom of expression]], tolerance and [[civil society]], constructive diplomatic relations with other states including [[EU]] and [[Asia]]n governments, and an economic policy that supported [[free market]] and foreign investment. However, Khatami is widely regarded as having been unsuccessful in achieving his goal of making Iran more free and democratic.<ref name="autogenerated3">{{Cite news|author=Dan De Luce in Tehran |url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/may/04/iran |title=The Guardian, Tuesday 4 May 2004, Khatami blames clerics for failure |publisher=Guardian |date= 4 May 2004|accessdate=2010-08-25 | location=London}}</ref> In the [[Iranian presidential election, 2005|2005 presidential elections]], Iran made yet another change in political direction, when conservative populist candidate [[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]] was elected over [[Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani]].<ref>
{{Cite news|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4740441.stm|title=Iran hardliner becomes president|accessdate=2006-12-06|date=3 August 2005|publisher=BBC}}</ref>

[[File:3rd Day - The Green Protest Rally.jpg|thumb|250px|June [[2009 Iranian election protests]] in Tehran]]

A significant challenge to Ahmadinejad's political power, and the foundations of the Islamic Republic itself occurred during the [[2009 Iranian presidential election]] that was held on 12 June 2009,<ref>{{Cite news|title=Iran To Hold Presidential Election In June 2009|curly=y|url=http://www.rferl.org/content/Iran_To_Hold_Presidential_Election_In_June_2009/1196953.html|format=[[Reuters]]|work=[[Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty]]|date=7 September 2008|accessdate=2 December 2008}}</ref> the tenth presidential election to be held in the country.<ref name=daily>{{Cite web|title=Ahmadinejad Wins Landslide|url=http://www.iran-daily.com/1388/3423/html/|date=13 June 2009|accessdate=13 June 2009|publisher=''[http://www.iran-daily.com/ Iran Daily]''}} {{Dead link|date=September 2010|bot=H3llBot}}</ref> The [[Ministry of Interior (Iran)|Interior Ministry]], announced incumbent president [[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]] had won the election with 62.63% receiving 24.5 million vote, while [[Mir-Hossein Mousavi]] had come in second place with 13.2 milion votes 33,75%.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://moi.ir/Portal/Home/ShowPage.aspx?Object=News&CategoryID=832a711b-95fe-4505-8aa3-38f5e17309c9&LayoutID=dd8faff4-f71b-4c65-9aef-a1b6d0160be3&ID=5e30ab89-e376-434b-813f-8c22255158e1|title=نتایج نهایی دهمین دورهٔ انتخابات ریاست جمهوری|publisher=[[Ministry of Interior (Iran)|Ministry of Interior of Iran]]|language=Persian|date=2009-06-13|accessdate=2009-06-27}}</ref><ref>[[Press TV]] [http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=98016&sectionid=351070101 Leader addresses nation on election results], 13 June 2009</ref> The [[European Union]] and several western countries expressed concern over alleged irregularities during the vote,<ref name=defeated>{{Cite news|title=Defeated Iranian reformist Mir-Hossein Mousavi calls for more protest against Mahmoud Ahmadinejad|author1=Colin Freeman|author2=David Blair|url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/5533782/Defeated-Iranian-reformist-Mir-Hossein-Mousavi-calls-for-more-protest-against-Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad.html|date=2009-06-14|accessdate=2009-06-14|publisher=The Daily Telegraph | location=London}}</ref> and some analysts and journalists from the [[United States]] and [[United Kingdom]] news media voiced doubts about the authenticity of the results.<ref name=skep>{{Cite news|url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/13/official-obama-administration-skeptical-irans-election-results/|title=Official: Obama Administration Skeptical of Iran's Election Results|publisher=[[Fox News Channel|Fox News]]|date=2009-06-13|accessdate=2009-06-13}} {{Dead link|date=August 2010|bot=RjwilmsiBot}}</ref><ref name=tele>{{Cite news|first=Colin|last=Freeman|url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/5526721/Iran-elections-revolt-as-crowds-protest-at-Mahmoud-Ahmadinejads-rigged-victory.html|title=Iran elections: revolt as crowds protest at Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's 'rigged' victory|publisher=The Daily Telegraph|date=12 June 2009|accessdate=12 June 2009 | location=London}}</ref><ref name=instant>{{Cite news|url=http://www.reuters.com/article/newsMaps/idUSTRE55C0W620090613|title=Instant View: Iran's election result staggers analysts|publisher=Reuters|date=2009-02-09|accessdate=2009-06-13 | first=Alistair | last=Lyon}}</ref>

Mousavi issued a statement accusing the Interior Ministry, which was responsible for conducting the election, of widespread election fraud and urged his supporters to engage in peaceful protests. He also lodged an official appeal with the Guardian Council for new and more transparent elections. [[2009 Iranian Election Protests|Protests, in favour of Mousavi and against the alleged fraud]], broke out in [[Tehran]]. [[Supreme Leader of Iran|Supreme Leader]] [[Ayatollah]] [[Ali Khamenei]] urged the nation to unite behind Ahmadinejad, labeling his victory as a "divine assessment".<ref name=abc>{{Cite news|title=Election Battles Turn Into Street Fights in Iran|publisher=[[ABC News]]|url=http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=7830630|date=13 June 2009|accessdate=13 June 2009}} {{Dead link|date=September 2010|bot=H3llBot}}</ref> Khamenei then announced there would be an investigation into vote-rigging claims.<ref name=black>{{Cite news|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/15/iran-opposition-rally-banned-mousavi|title=Iranians march in protest at Ahmadinejad re-election|author1=Ian Black|author2=Vikram Dodd|author3=Matthew Weaver|publisher=The Guardian|date=15 June 2009|accessdate=15 June 2009 | location=London}}</ref>

On 16 June, the [[Guardian Council]] announced it would recount 10% of the votes and concluded there were no irregularities at all, dismissing all election complaints.<ref>[[Press TV]] [http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=99364&sectionid=351020101 Iran's Guardian Council confirms vote results], 29 June 2009</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-2009-06-29-voa6-68692667.html |title=Iran Confirms Ahmadinejad Win After Partial Vote Recount |publisher=.voanews.com |date=2009-06-29 |accessdate=2010-08-25}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-20479751.html |title=Iran's Guardian Council Affirms Vote Result; Recount of 10 Percent of Ballot Boxes Certifies Landslide Victory by Ahmadinejad |publisher=Encyclopedia.com |date=2009-06-30 |accessdate=2010-08-25}}</ref> However, Mousavi stated that a recount would not be sufficient since he claimed 14 million unused ballots were missing, giving the Interior Ministry an opportunity to manipulate the results.<ref name=recount>{{Cite news|url=http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/16/iran.elections.protests/index.html|title=Rival demonstrations fill Tehran streets|publisher=CNN|date=2009-06-16|accessdate=2009-06-16|author1=Octavia Nasr|author2=Reza Sayah|author3=Samson Desta}}</ref> On 19 June, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei denounced the pro-Mousavi demonstrations as illegal,<ref name=afp-19june>{{Cite news|title=Amnesty says up to 10 dead in Iran protests|url=http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hmI8SkGap6fUGvyrbGIRk5oKCA9Q|date=19 June 2009|publisher=AFP|accessdate=19 June 2009}}</ref> and protests the next day were met with stiff resistance from government forces, with many reported deaths.<ref>{{Cite news|title=Iran police 'use gas' on protesters|url=http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/06/2009620132648106415.html|date=20 June 2009|publisher=al Jazeera|accessdate=20 June 2009}}</ref>

==Government and politics==
{{Main|Constitution of Iran|Politics and Government of Iran|Parliament of Iran|President of Iran|Supreme Leader of Iran|Judicial system of Iran|Council of Guardians}}

[[File:Ali Khamenei,.jpg|thumb|130px|[[Ali Khamenei]], Supreme Leader of Iran.]]

The political system of the Islamic [[Republic]] is based on the 1979 [[Iranian Constitution|Constitution]]. Accordingly, it is the duty of the [[Government of Iran|Islamic government]] to furnish all citizens with equal and appropriate opportunities, to provide them with work, and to satisfy their essential needs, so that the course of their progress may be assured.<ref>[http://www.servat.unibe.ch/law/icl/ir00000_.html University of Bern; Iranian Constitution summary]. Retrieved 30 November 2009.</ref>

The system comprises several intricately connected governing bodies. [[Supreme Leader of Iran|The Supreme Leader of Iran]] is responsible for [[Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists|delineation and supervision]] of the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran.<ref name="leader">[http://www.leader.ir/langs/en/index.php?p=leader_law Leader.ir], retrieved 13 May 2008</ref> The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, controls the military intelligence and security operations; and has sole power to declare war or peace.<ref name="leader"/>

The heads of the judiciary, state radio and television networks, the commanders of the police and military forces and six of the twelve members of the [[Council of Guardians]] are appointed by the Supreme Leader.<ref name="leader"/> The [[Assembly of Experts]] elects and dismisses the Supreme Leader on the basis of qualifications and popular esteem.<ref name="loc">{{Cite web|url=http://countrystudies.us/iran/81.htm|title=Iran — The Constitution|first=Library of Congress|last=Federal Research Division|accessdate=2006-04-14}}</ref> The Assembly of Experts is responsible for supervising the Supreme Leader in the performance of legal duties.

After the Supreme Leader, the Constitution defines the [[President of Iran]] as the highest state authority.<ref name="leader"/><ref name="photius">[http://www.photius.com/countries/iran/government/iran_government_the_presidency.html Iran The Presidency]. Retrieved 25 January 2008.</ref> The President is elected by [[universal suffrage]] for a term of four years and can only be re-elected for one term.<ref name="photius"/> Presidential candidates must be approved by the [[Council of Guardians]] prior to running in order to ensure their allegiance to the ideals of the Islamic revolution.<ref>Chibli Mallat, The Renewal of Islamic Law: Muhammad Baqer As-Sadr, Najaf and the Shi'i international, ISBN 0-521-53122-5, Cambridge University Press</ref>

The President is responsible for the implementation of the Constitution and for the exercise of executive powers, except for matters directly related to the Supreme Leader, who has the final say in all matters.<ref name="leader"/> The President appoints and supervises the [[Council of Minsters of Iran|Council of Ministers]], coordinates government decisions, and selects government policies to be placed before the legislature.<ref>[http://countrystudies.us/iran/84.htm Country Studies]. Retrieved 2 February 2008.</ref> Eight Vice-Presidents serve under the President, as well as a cabinet of twenty two ministers, who must all be approved by the legislature.<ref>[http://www.iranchamber.com/government/articles/structure_of_power.php The Structure of Power in Iran]. Retrieved 28 February 2008.</ref>
Unlike many other states, the executive branch in Iran does not control the armed forces. Although the President appoints the Ministers of Intelligence and Defense, it is customary for the President to obtain explicit approval from the Supreme Leader for these two ministers before presenting them to the legislature for a vote of confidence. Iran's current president, [[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]], was first elected in a run-off poll in the [[Iranian presidential election, 2005|2005 presidential elections]] and re-elected in the [[2009 Iranian presidential election|2009 presidential elections]].
[[File:Iran gov power structure.svg|thumb|300px|Iran's complex and unusual political system combines elements of a modern Islamic theocracy with democracy.]]
As of 2008, the [[Majlis of Iran|Legislature of Iran]] (also known as the [[Majlis of Iran]]) is a [[unicameral]] body.<ref name="Majlis">[http://www.electionguide.org/country.php?ID=103 IFES Election Guide]. Retrieved 3 February 2008.</ref> Before the [[Iranian Revolution]], the legislature was [[bicameral]], but the [[Iranian Senate|upper house]] was removed under the new constitution. The Majlis of Iran comprises 290 members elected for four-year terms.<ref name="Majlis"/> The Majlis drafts [[legislation]], ratifies international [[treaties]], and approves the national budget. All Majlis candidates and all legislation from the assembly must be approved by the [[Council of Guardians]].<ref>[http://countrystudies.us/iran/86.htm Iran – The Council of Guardians]. Retrieved 3 February 2008.</ref>

The [[Council of Guardians]] comprises twelve jurists including six appointed by the Supreme Leader. The others are elected by the [[Majlis|Parliament]] from among the jurists nominated by the Head of the [[Judicial system of Iran|Judiciary]].<ref name="photius">[http://www.photius.com/countries/iran/government/iran_government_the_council_of_guard~276.html Photius.com]. Retrieved 3 February 2008.</ref><ref>[http://www.iranonline.com/iran/iran-info/Government/constitution-6-2.html Iran Online Forum]. Retrieved 3 February 2008.</ref> The Council interprets the constitution and may [[veto]] Parliament. If a law is deemed incompatible with the constitution or [[Sharia]] (Islamic law), it is referred back to Parliament for revision.<ref name="photius"/> In a controversial exercise of its authority, the Council has drawn upon a narrow interpretation of Iran's constitution to veto parliamentary candidates. The [[Expediency Discernment Council|Expediency Council]] has the authority to mediate disputes between Parliament and the Council of Guardians, and serves as an advisory body to the Supreme Leader, making it one of the most powerful governing bodies in the country.<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/iran_power/html/expediency_council.stm BBC News]. Retrieved 3 February 2008.</ref>
[[File:Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.jpg|left|thumb|150px|President [[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]] at Columbia University.]]
The Supreme Leader appoints the head of [[Judicial system of Iran|Iran's Judiciary]], who in turn appoints the head of the Supreme Court and the chief public prosecutor.<ref name="Judiciary">[http://www.iranchamber.com/government/articles/structure_of_power.php Iran Chamber Society]. Retrieved 3 February 2008.</ref> There are several types of courts including public courts that deal with civil and criminal cases, and "revolutionary courts" which deal with certain categories of offenses, including crimes against [[national security]]. The decisions of the revolutionary courts are final and cannot be appealed.<ref name="Judiciary"/> The Special Clerical Court handles crimes allegedly committed by [[cleric]]s, although it has also taken on cases involving [[lay people]]. The Special Clerical Court functions independently of the regular judicial framework and is accountable only to the Supreme Leader. The Court's rulings are final and cannot be appealed.<ref name="Judiciary"/>

The [[Assembly of Experts]], which meets for one week annually, comprises 86 "virtuous and learned" clerics elected by adult suffrage for eight-year terms. As with the presidential and parliamentary elections, the [[Council of Guardians]] determines candidates' eligibility.<ref name="Judiciary"/> The Assembly elects the Supreme Leader and has the constitutional authority to remove the Supreme Leader from power at any time.<ref name="Judiciary"/> It has not challenged any of the Supreme Leader's decisions.<ref name="Judiciary"/>

[[City and Village Councils of Iran|Local City Councils]] are elected by public vote to four-year terms in all cities and villages of Iran. According to article seven of Iran's Constitution, these local councils together with the Parliament are "decision-making and administrative organs of the State". This section of the constitution was not implemented until 1999 when the first local council elections were held across the country. Councils have many different responsibilities including electing mayors, supervising the activities of municipalities; studying, planning, co-ordinating and implementing of social, cultural, educational, health, economic, and welfare requirements of their constituencies.

==Foreign relations and military==
{{Main|Foreign relations of Iran|Military of Iran|Iranian defense industry}}
{{See also|Military history of Iran|List of military equipment manufactured in Iran}}

[[File:Saeqeh-fighter-plane-test-Tehran1 (4).jpg|Iranian made jet fighter, [[HESA Saeqeh]]|thumb]]
[[Foreign relations of Iran|Iran's foreign relations]] are based on two strategic principles: eliminating outside influences in the region and pursuing extensive diplomatic contacts with developing and [[Non-Aligned Movement|non-aligned countries]]. Iran maintains diplomatic relations with almost every member of the [[United Nations]], except for [[Israel]], which Iran does not recognize, and the United States since the [[Iranian Revolution]].<ref>[http://www.pbs.org/newshour/indepth_coverage/middle_east/iran/timeline.html Key Events in Iran Since 1921]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> Since 2005, [[Nuclear program of Iran|Iran's nuclear program]] has become the subject of contention with the Western world due to suspicions that Iran could divert the civilian nuclear technology to a weapons program. This has led the [[UN Security Council]] to impose [[sanctions against Iran]] on select companies linked to this program, thus furthering its economic isolation on the international scene. The [[U.S. Director of National Intelligence]] said in February 2009 that Iran would not realistically be able to a get a nuclear weapon until 2013, if it chose to develop one.<ref>{{Cite news|url=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN25158068|title=RPT-EXCLUSIVE-Iran would need 18 months for atom bomb-diplomats|publisher=Reuters|accessdate=2010-08-01 | first=Louis | last=Charbonneau | date=26 October 2009}}</ref>
[[File:Iranian kilo class submarine.jpg|thumb|left|140px|One of Iran's three [[Kilo class submarine|SSK Kilo class submarines]]]]
The Islamic Republic of Iran has two types of [[armed forces]]: the regular forces [[Islamic Republic of Iran Army]], [[Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force]], [[Islamic Republic of Iran Navy]] and the [[Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps]] (IRGC), totaling about 545,000 active troops. Iran also has around 350,000 Reserve Force totaling around 900,000 trained troops.<ref>[[IISS]] Military Balance 2006, Routledge for the IISS, London, 2006, p.187</ref> Iran has a paramilitary, volunteer militia force within the IRGC, called the [[Basij]], which includes about 90,000 full-time, active-duty uniformed members. Up to 11 million men and women are members of the Basij who could potentially be called up for service; [[GlobalSecurity.org]] estimates Iran could mobilize "up to one million men". This would be among the largest troop mobilizations in the world.<ref>[http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/world/iran/basij.htm Niruyeh Moghavemat Basij Mobilisation Resistance Force]. Retrieved 27 February 2008.</ref> In 2007, Iran's military spending represented 2.6% of the GDP or $102 per capita, the lowest figure of the [[Persian Gulf]] nations.<ref>[http://www.payvand.com/news/06/jun/1011.html Iran's defense spending 'a fraction of Persian Gulf neighbors']. Retrieved 27 February 2008.</ref> Iran's military doctrine is based on [[deterrence theory|deterrence]].<ref>[http://www2.irna.com/en/news/view/line-24/0804185731142306.htm IRNA: Iran's doctrine based on deterrence]. Retrieved 28 June 2008.</ref>

Since the [[Iranian revolution]], to overcome foreign embargo, Iran has developed its own [[Iranian military industry|military industry]], produced its own [[tanks]], [[armored personnel carriers]], [[guided missile]]s, [[submarine]]s, military vessels, [[Iranian destroyer Jamaran|guided missile destroyer]], [[radar system]]s, [[helicopters]] and [[fighter planes]].<ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156160,00.html Iran Launches Production of Stealth Sub]. Retrieved 27 February 2008.</ref><ref>[http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=95824&sectionid=351020101 PressTv: Advanced attack chopper joins Iran fleet] Retrieved 24 May 2009</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=118982&sectionid=351020101|title=Iran launches advanced Jamaran destroyer|publisher=Presstv.com|date=2010-02-19|accessdate=2010-08-01}}</ref> In recent years, official announcements have highlighted the development of weapons such as the [[Hoot (missile)|Hoot]], [[Kowsar]], [[Zelzal]], [[Fateh-110]], [[Shahab-3]] and [[Sajjil]] missiles, and a variety of [[unmanned aerial vehicles]] (UAVs).<ref>{{Cite news|title=Iran tests new long-range missile|work=[[BBC]]|date=2008-11-12|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7725951.stm|accessdate=2008-11-12}}</ref> The [[Fajr-3 (MIRV)]] is currently Iran's most advanced [[ballistic missile]], it is a [[liquid fuel]] missile with an undisclosed range which was developed and produced domestically.

==Economy==
{{Main|Economy of Iran|Iranian Economic Reform Plan}}
{{See also|Central Bank of Iran|Tehran Stock Exchange|Industry of Iran|Transport in Iran|Communications in Iran|Construction in Iran|Privatization in Iran|Foreign Direct Investment in Iran|Tourism in Iran|Economic Cooperation Organization|Next Eleven}}
[[File:TCarpet2.jpg|thumb|150px|There is an estimated population of 1.2 million weavers in Iran producing [[Persian carpet|carpets]] for domestic markets and international export.<ref>{{Cite web
|url=http://www.presstv.com/Detail.aspx?id=74845&sectionid=351020102
|title=Iran to form carpet export consortium
|accessdate=2009-03-01
|date=9 November 2008
|publisher=[[PressTV]]}}</ref>]]
The [[economy of Iran]] is the [[List of countries by GDP (PPP)|sixteenth largest]] economy in the world by [[purchasing power parity]] (PPP). Iran's economy is a [[Mixed economy|mixture]] of [[Planned economy|central planning]], [[state ownership]] of oil and other large [[Business|enterprises]], village [[agriculture]], and small-scale private trading and service ventures.<ref>[http://www.traveldocs.com/ir/economy.htm Expedited Visas, Visa Applications, Rush Passport, Passports, Travel]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> Its economic [[communications in Iran|infrastructure]] has been improving steadily over the past two decades but continues to be affected by [[inflation]] and [[unemployment]].<ref>{{Cite web|date=2007-07-08|url=http://iran-daily.com/1386/2887/html|title=World Bank: Iran’s Economic Indices Improving|publisher=Iran Daily|accessdate=2007-07-08 |archiveurl = http://web.archive.org/web/20070927231116/http://iran-daily.com/1386/2887/html |archivedate = 27 September 2007}}</ref> In the early 21st century the service sector contributed the largest percentage of the GDP, followed by industry ([[Mining in Iran|mining]] and manufacturing) and [[Agriculture of Iran|agriculture]]. In 2006, about 45% of the government's budget came from oil and natural gas revenues, and 31% came from taxes and fees.<ref name="payvand.com">[http://www.payvand.com/news/08/jan/1250.html IRNA: Crude price pegged at dlrs 39.6 a barrel under next year's budget]. Retrieved 5 December 2008.</ref>

Government spending contributed to an average annual inflation rate of 14% in the period 2000–2004. As at 2007, Iran had earned $70 billion in [[foreign exchange reserves]] mostly (80%) from crude oil exports.<ref>[http://iran-daily.com/1386/3068/html/economy.htm Iran Daily] Forex Reserves Put at $70b Retrieved on 24 February 2008</ref> In 2009 GDP was $336 billion ($876 billion at PPP), or $12,900 at [[Purchasing power parity|PPP]] per capita.<ref name="CIA"/> In 2008, Iran's official annual growth rate was 6%.<ref>Surrounded:seeing the world from Iran's point of view Military review July–August 2007 Houman A. Sadri p.21</ref> Because of these figures and the country’s diversified but small industrial base, the [[United Nations]] classifies Iran's economy as semi-developed (1998).<ref name="newworldencyclopedia">[http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Iran "New World Encyclopedia"]. Retrieved 28 January 2008.</ref>
[[File:Runna.jpg|thumb|left|170px|[[Iranian automobile industry|Iran's automobile production]] crossed the 1 million mark in 2005. [[Iran Khodro]] is the largest car manufacturer in the Middle-East. It has established joint-ventures with foreign partners on 4 continents.]]
Close to 1.8% of national employment is generated in the tourism sector which is slated to increase to 10% in the next five years.<ref>[http://www.farsinet.com/travel2iran/ Farsinet.com]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> About 1,659,000 foreign [[tourists]] visited Iran in 2004; most came from [[Asia]]n countries, including the republics of [[Central Asia]], while a small share came from the countries of the [[European Union]] and [[North America]]. Iran currently ranks 89th in [[tourist]] income, but is rated among the "10 most touristic countries" in the world in terms of [[history of Iran|its history]].<ref name="Tourism">[http://web.archive.org/web/20080513074502/http://www.iran-daily.com/1384/2241/html/focus.htm Iran-daily.com]</ref><ref>[http://presstv.com/Program/142594.html PressTV: Iranian Hospitality Industry] Retrieved October 1, 2010</ref>. Retrieved 15 February 2008.</ref> Weak advertising, unstable regional conditions, a poor public image in some parts of the world, and absence of efficient planning schemes in the tourism sector have all hindered the growth of tourism.

The administration continues to follow the [[Iranian Economic Reform Plan|market reform plans]] of the previous one and indicated that it will diversify Iran's oil-reliant economy. Iran has also developed a [[Science in Iran#Biotechnology|biotechnology]], [[Science in Iran#Nanotechnology|nanotechnology]], and [[Health care in Iran#Pharmaceuticals|pharmaceuticals]] industry.<ref>[http://www.nanovip.com/nanotechnology-companies/iran List of Iranian Nanotechnology companies]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> The strong oil market since 1996 helped ease financial pressures on Iran and allowed for Tehran's timely debt service payments.

Iranian [[budget deficits]] have been a chronic problem, mostly due to [[Iranian Economic Reform Plan#Subsidy reform plan|large-scale state subsidies]], that include foodstuffs and especially gasoline, totaling more than $84 billion in 2008 for the energy sector alone.<ref>[http://www.payvand.com/news/07/jan/1295.html Payvand.com], "Ahmadinejad's Achilles Heel: The Iranian Economy". Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref><ref>{{Cite web|date=2007-01-08|url=http://www.iran-daily.com/1387/3111/html/economy.htm|title=Energy subsidies reach $84b|publisher=Iran-Daily|accessdate=2008-04-27 |archiveurl = http://web.archive.org/web/20080506122659/http://www.iran-daily.com/1387/3111/html/economy.htm |archivedate = 6 May 2008}}</ref> In 2010, the [[Iranian Economic Reform Plan#Subsidy reform plan|economic reform plan]] was approved by parliament to cut subsidies gradually and replace them with targeted social assistance. The objective is to move towards [[free market]] prices in a 5-year period and increase productivity.

Over the past 15 years, the authorities have placed an emphasis on the local production of domestic-consumption oriented goods such as home appliances, cars, agricultural products, pharmaceutical, etc. Today, Iran possesses a good [[industry of Iran|manufacturing industry]], despite [[sanctions against Iran|restrictions imposed by foreign countries]]. However, nationalized industries such as the [[bonyad]]s have often been managed badly, making them ineffective and uncompetitive with years. Currently, the government is trying to [[Privatization in Iran|privatize these industries]], and, despite successes, there are still several problems to be overcome, such as the [[History of the Islamic Republic of Iran#Corruption|lagging corruption in the public sector]] and lack of competitiveness.

Iran has leading manufacture industry in the fields of car-manufacture and transportation, construction materials, home appliances, food and agricultural goods, armaments, pharmaceuticals, information technology, power and petrochemicals in the [[Middle East]].<ref name="Economy">[https://www.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/ukti/appmanager/ukti/countries?_nfls=false&_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=CountryType1&navigationPageId=/iran UK Trade & Investment]. Retrieved 26 February 2008.</ref>

===Energy===
[[File:CIAIranKarteOelGas.jpg|thumb|170px|Iran holds 10% of the world's proven [[oil reserves]] and 15% of its [[gas]]. It is [[OPEC]]'s second largest exporter and the world's fourth oil producer.]]
{{Main|Energy in Iran|Petroleum industry in Iran|Nuclear program of Iran}}
Iran ranks second in the world in [[Natural gas reserves in Iran|natural gas reserves]] and third in [[Oil reserves in Iran|oil reserves]].<ref>https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2178rank.html</ref><ref>[http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Iran/Background.html Department of Energy]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> It is [[OPEC]]'s 2nd largest oil exporter and it has the potential to become an [[Energy superpower#Iran|energy superpower]].<ref>[http://www.eurasianhome.org/xml/t/opinion.xml?lang=en&nic=opinion&pid=558 The EU should be playing Iran and Russia off against each other], by Julian Evans, Eurasian Home, 8 November 2006</ref>
In 2005, Iran spent [[United States dollar|$]]4 billion on fuel imports, because of [[contraband]] and inefficient domestic use.<ref>[http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/205986/3/ "U.S. targets Iran's vulnerable oil"]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> Oil industry output averaged {{convert|4|Moilbbl/d|m3/d}} in 2005, compared with the peak of six million barrels per day reached in 1974. In the early 2000s, industry [[infrastructure]] was increasingly inefficient because of technological lags. Few exploratory [[Oil well|wells]] were drilled in 2005.

In 2004, a large share of [[Natural gas reserves in Iran|Iran's natural gas reserves]] were untapped. The addition of new [[hydroelectric]] stations and the streamlining of conventional [[coal]] and oil-fired stations increased installed capacity to 33,000 megawatts. Of that amount, about 75% was based on natural gas, 18% on oil, and 7% on hydroelectric power. In 2004, Iran opened its first [[wind]]-powered and geothermal plants, and the first [[Solar power|solar]] thermal plant is to come online in 2009.

[[Demographics of Iran|Demographic]] trends and intensified industrialization have caused [[electric power]] demand to grow by 8% per year. The government’s goal of 53,000 megawatts of installed capacity by 2010 is to be reached by bringing on line new gas-fired plants and by adding hydroelectric, and [[nuclear programme of Iran|nuclear power generating capacity]]. [[Bushehr Nuclear Power Plant|Iran’s first nuclear power plant]] at [[Bushehr]] is set to go online by 2010.<ref name="nuclear">[http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/Iran.pdf Library of Congress]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref><ref>[http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=111980 [[PressTV]]: Iran questions Russian credibility over Bushehr plant]. Retrieved 23 November 2009.</ref>

==Demography==
{{Main|Demography of Iran|Iranian peoples|Religion in Iran|Languages of Iran|Health care in Iran|Social class in Iran|Human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran|Iranian citizens abroad}}
[[File:Iran ethnoreligious distribution 2004.jpg|thumb|300px|Iran ethnoreligious distribution]]
Iran is a diverse country consisting of people of many religions and ethnic backgrounds cemented by the [[Persian culture]].<ref>[http://www.iranica.com/newsite/articles/v13f3/v13f3004a.html Encyclopaedia Iranica. R. N. Frye. Peoples of Iran]{{Dead link|date=August 2010}}</ref> The majority of the population speaks the [[Persian language]], which is also the [[official language]] of the country, as well as other [[Iranian language]]s or dialects. [[Turkic languages]] and dialects (most importantly [[Azeri]]) are spoken in different areas in Iran. Additionally, Arabic is spoken in the southwestern parts of the country.

The exact ethnic breakdown of Iran is unknown as there are no official numbers, however some organizations have made estimates. The [[Library of Congress]] released the estimate: [[Persian people|Persians]] (65%), [[Azeris]] (16 %), [[Kurds]] (7%), [[Lurs]] (6%), [[Arabs]] (2%), [[Baloch|Baluchi]] (2%), [[Turkmen people|Turkmens]] (1%), Turkic tribal groups such as the [[Qashqai]] (1%), and non-Iranian, non-Turkic groups such as Armenians, Assyrians, and Georgians (less than 1%). According to them [[Persian language|Persian]] is spoken as a mother tongue by at least 65% of the population and as a second language by a large proportion of the remaining 35%.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/Iran.pdf|title=Ethnic Groups and Languages of Iran|first=Library of Congress – Federal Research Division|last=Library of Congress|accessdate=2009-12-02}}</ref>

[[The CIA World Factbook]] estimates are as following: [[Persian people|Persians]] (51%), [[Azeris]] (24%), [[Guilak|Gilaki]] and [[Mazandarani people|Mazandarani]] (8%), [[Kurds]] (7%), [[Arabs]] (3%), [[Baloch|Baluchi]] (2%), [[Lurs]] (2%), [[Turkmen people|Turkmens]] (2%), [[Lak people (Iran)|Laks]], [[Qashqai]], [[Armenians]], [[Persian Jews]], [[Georgians]], [[Assyrian people|Assyrians]], [[Circassians]], [[Tats]], [[Mandaeans]], [[Romani people|Gypsies]], [[Brahui people|Brahuis]], [[Hazara people|Hazara]], [[Kazakh people|Kazakhs]] and others (1%).<ref name="CIA"/> However according to them [[Persian language|Persian]] and its dialects are spoken as first language by 58% while [[Azeri language|Azeri]] is spoken by 26%, [[Kurdish language|Kurdish]] by 9%, [[Luri dialects|Luri]] by 3%, [[Balochi language|Balochi]] by 1%, [[Arabic language|Arabic]] by 1% and that some 2% have other languages as first language.<ref name="CIA"/>
{{bar box
|title=Iran religiosity
|titlebar=#ddd
|left1='''Religion'''
|right1='''Percent'''
|float=right
|bars=
{{bar percent|Shia Islam|lightgreen|89}}
{{bar percent|Sunni Islam|darkgreen|9}}
{{bar percent|Other|red|2}}
}}
Iran's population increased dramatically during the latter half of the 20th century, reaching about 75 million by 2009.<ref name="una">{{Cite web|url=http://www.un.org/Depts/escap/pop/journal/v10n1a1.htm|title=A New Direction in Population Policy and Family Planning in the Islamic Republic of Iran|first=United Nations|last=Asia-Pacific Population Journal|accessdate=2006-04-14}}</ref> In recent years, however, Iran's [[birth rate]] has dropped significantly. Studies project that Iran's rate of population growth will continue to slow until it stabilizes above 105 million by 2050.<ref name="bureau">{{Cite web|url=http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbsum.pl?cty=IR|title=IDB Summary Demographic Data for Iran|first=Government of the U.S.A.|last=Census Bureau|accessdate=2006-04-14}} {{Dead link|date=September 2010|bot=H3llBot}}</ref><ref name="payvand">{{Cite web|url=http://www.payvand.com/news/04/aug/1017.html|title=Iran's population growth rate falls to 1.5 percent: UNFP|first=Payvand.com|last=Iran News|accessdate=2006-10-18}}</ref> More than two-thirds of the population is under the age of 30, and the literacy rate is 83%.<ref name="CIA"/> Women today compose more than half of the incoming classes for universities around the country and increasingly continue to play pivotal roles in society.

Iran hosts one of the largest [[refugee]] populations in the world, with more than one million refugees, mostly from [[Afghan refugees|Afghanistan]] and [[Iraq]].<ref>"[http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=77107 Afghanistan-Iran: Iran says it will deport over one million Afghans ]" IRIN Asia. 4 March 2008.</ref> Since 2006, Iranian officials have been working with the [[UNHCR]] and Afghan officials for their [[repatriation]].<ref name="bbcb">{{Cite web|url=http://www.unhcr.org/news/NEWS/452b78394.html|title=Tripartite meeting on returns to Afghanistan|first=[[UNHCR]]|last=United Nations|accessdate=2006-04-14}}</ref> According to estimates, about five million [[Iranian citizens abroad|Iranian citizens]] have emigrated to other countries, mostly since the Iranian Revolution in 1979.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=123686&sectionid=351020102|title=Iran to start bank for expat-investors|publisher=Presstv.com|date=2010-04-18|accessdate=2010-08-01}}</ref><ref>[http://www.migrationinformation.org/Profiles/display.cfm?ID=424 Migration Information Institute: Characteristics of the Iranian Diaspora]. Retrieved 10 January 2009.</ref>

[[File:Iran Population (1880-2005).JPG|thumb|250px|left|Population of Iran]]
[[Religion in Iran]] is dominated by the [[Twelver]] [[Shi'a Islam|Shi'a]] branch of [[Islam]], which is the official state religion and to which about 89% of Iranians belong. About 9% of Iranians belong to the [[Sunni Islam|Sunni]] branch of Islam, mainly Kurds and Iran's Balochi Sunni. The remaining 2% are non-Muslim [[Religious minorities in Iran|religious minorities]], including [[Bahá'í Faith|Bahá'ís]], [[Mandaeism|Mandeans]], [[Hindus]], [[Yezidi]]s, [[Yarsan]]is, [[Zoroastrians in Iran|Zoroastrians]], [[Persian Jews|Jews]], and [[Christians in Iran|Christians]].<ref name="CIA"/>

The latter three [[minority group|minority]] religions are officially recognized and protected, and have reserved seats in the ''[[Majlis]]'' (Parliament). However the [[Bahá'í Faith]], Iran's largest religious minority,<ref name="fdih2">{{Cite web|date=2003-08-01|title=Discrimination against religious minorities in Iran|author=International Federation for Human Rights|publisher=fdih.org|accessdate=2009-01-17|url=http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/ir0108a.pdf|format=PDF|page=6}}</ref> is not officially recognized, and has been persecuted during its existence in Iran. Since the 1979 revolution the [[persecution of Bahá'ís]] has increased with executions, the denial of civil rights and liberties, and the denial of access to higher education and employment.<ref name="fdih1">{{Cite web|date=2003-08-01|title=Discrimination against religious minorities in Iran|author=International Federation for Human Rights|publisher=fdih.org|accessdate=2007-03-19|url=http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/ir0108a.pdf|format=PDF}}</ref><ref name="ihrdc">{{Cite web|author=Iran Human Rights Documentation Center|publisher=Iran Human Rights Documentation Center|title=A Faith Denied: The Persecution of the Bahá'ís of Iran|year=2007|accessdate=2007-03-19|url=http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/pdfs/Reports/bahai_report.pdf|format=PDF}}</ref>

According to the [[Iranian Constitution]], the government is required to provide every citizen of the country with access to [[social security]] that covers [[retirement]], [[unemployment]], old age, [[disability]], [[accidents]], calamities, [[health]] and medical treatment and care services. This is covered by [[Labor and tax laws in Iran|public revenues]] and income derived from public contributions. The [[World Health Organization]] in the last report on health systems ranks Iran's performance on health level 58th, and its overall [[health care in Iran|health system]] performance 93rd among the world's nations.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/annex10_en.pdf|title=The World Health Report 2000|first=[[World Health Organisation]]|last=WHO|accessdate=2006-10-12|format=PDF}}</ref>

==Culture==
{{Main|Culture of Iran}}
{{See also|Media of Iran|Cinema of Iran|Iranian cuisine}}

[[File:Azadi1.jpg|thumb|left|140px|[[Azadi Tower]]]]
[[File:Teatreshahr11.jpg|thumb|left|140px|City Theater of Tehran, the largest Theater auditorium in the [[Middle East]]]]
The Culture of Iran is a mix of ancient pre-Islamic culture and Islamic culture. [[Iranian culture]] probably originated in [[Central Asia]] and the [[Andronovo culture]] is strongly suggested{{Citation needed|date=October 2010}} as the predecessor of Iranian culture ''ca''. 2000 BC. Iranian culture has long been a predominant culture of the [[Middle East]] and [[Central Asia]], with Persian considered the language of intellectuals during much of the 2nd millennium, and the language of religion and the populace before that.

The [[Sassanid empire|Sassanid era]] was an important and influential historical period in Iran as Iranian culture influenced China, India and Roman civilization considerably,<ref>J. B. Bury, History of the Later Roman Empire: From the Death of Theodosius I to the Death of Justinian Volume 1, p.109 ISBN 0-486-20398-0, Dover Publications</ref> and so influenced as far as Western Europe and Africa.<ref>[http://www.transoxiana.com.ar/0104/sasanians.html Transoxiana 04: Sassanids in Africa]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> This influence played a prominent role in the formation of both [[Asian art|Asiatic]] and European [[medieval art]].<ref>[http://www.artarena.force9.co.uk/sass2.htm Iransaga: The art of Sassanids]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> This influence carried forward to the [[Islamic world]]. Much of what later became known as Islamic learning, such as [[philology]], [[Islamic literature|literature]], [[Fiqh|jurisprudence]], [[Early Islamic philosophy|philosophy]], [[Islamic medicine|medicine]], [[Islamic architecture|architecture]] and the [[Islamic science|sciences]] were based on some of the practises taken from the [[Sassanid dynasty|Sassanid]] Persians to the broader Muslim world.<ref>[http://www.parstimes.com/history/title.html Iran – A country study]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref><ref>[http://www.levity.com/alchemy/islam16.html History of Islamic Science 5]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref><ref name="Iran in Britannica"/>

After [[Islamization in Iran|Islamicization of Iran]] Islamic rituals have penetrated in the Iranian culture. The most noticeable one of them is [[commemoration of Husayn ibn Ali]]. Every year in [[Day of Ashura]] most of Iranians, including [[Armenians]] and [[Zoroastrians]] participate in mourning for the martyrs of [[battle of Karbala]]. Daily life in modern Iran is closely interwoven with [[Shia Islam]] and the country's art, literature, and architecture are an ever-present reminder of its deep national tradition and of a broader literary culture.<ref name="Iran in Britannica">{{cite encyclopedia|last=Afary|first=Janet|title=Iran|year=2006|encyclopedia=Encyclopedia Britannica Online|accessdate=2007-10-29|url=http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9106324/Iran}}</ref><ref>[http://www.tebyan.net/Literature_Art/GodlyPeople/Occasions/2005/2/22/10530.html گزارش عزاداری ، ارامنه و زرتشتیان ایران]</ref>

[[File:Ferdowsi tehran.jpg|thumb|140px|[[Ferdowsi]], poet, author of the ''[[Shahnameh|Shāhnāmeh]]'']]
The Iranian New Year ([[Nowruz]]) is an ancient tradition celebrated on 21 March to mark the beginning of spring in Iran. It is also celebrated in Afghanistan, Republic of Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and previously also in Georgia and Armenia. It is also celebrated by the Iraqi and Anatolian Kurds.<ref>[http://www.zoroastrian.org/articles/nowruz.htm The Zarathushtrian Assembly]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> [[Nowruz]] was registered on the list of [[Masterpieces of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity]]<ref>[http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=121693&sectionid=351020101 PressTV: Leaders of regional countries to mark Nowruz]. Retrieved 27 March 2010.</ref> and described as the ''Persian New Year''<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_on/events_calendar/march_2010/norouz_persian_new_year.aspx|title=Norouz Persian New Year|publisher=British Museum|date=2010-03-25|accessdate=2010-04-06}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news|url=http://www.un.org/spanish/aboutun/organs/ga/55/verbatim/a55pv94e.pdf|title=General Assembly Fifty-fifth session 94th plenary meeting Friday, 9 March 2001, 10 a.m. New York|publisher=United Nations General Assembly|date=9 March 2001|accessdate=2010-04-06}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100317/wl_time/08599197278600|title=Nowrooz, a Persian New Year Celebration, Erupts in Iran - Yahoo!News|publisher=News.yahoo.com|date=2010-03-16|accessdate=2010-04-06}} {{Dead link|date=September 2010|bot=H3llBot}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=http://washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/19/us-mulls-persian-new-year-outreach-to-iran/|title=U.S. mulls Persian New Year outreach|work=Washington Times|date=2010-03-19|accessdate=2010-04-06}}</ref> by the [[United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization]] (UNESCO) in 2009.

[[File:Hafeziyeh 0386.JPG|thumb|150px|[[Tomb of Hafez|Hafezi'eh]], tomb of [[Hafez]] in [[Shiraz|Shiraz City]]]]
The [[cuisine of Iran]] is diverse, with each province featuring dishes, as well as culinary traditions and styles, distinct to their regions. The main Persian cuisines are combinations of rice with meat, chicken or fish and some onion, vegetables, nuts, and herbs. Herbs are frequently used along with fruits such as plums, pomegranates, quince, prunes, apricots, and raisins. Iranians also usually eat plain [[yogurt]] ({{lang-fa|ماست, māst}}) with lunch and dinner; it is a staple of the diet in Iran. To achieve a balanced taste, characteristic flavourings such as saffron, dried limes, cinnamon, and parsley are mixed delicately and used in some special dishes. Onions and garlic are normally used in the preparation of the accompanying course, but are also served separately during meals, either in raw or pickled form. Iran is also famous for its [[caviar]].<ref>[http://www.iran-daily.com/1383/2228/html/focus.htm Iran-daily.com]{{Dead link|date=August 2010}}</ref> Iranian food is not spicy.

[[Iranian cinema]] has thrived in modern Iran, and many Iranian directors have garnered worldwide recognition for their work. Iranian movies have won over three hundred awards in the past twenty-five years. One of the best-known directors is [[Abbas Kiarostami]]. The [[media of Iran]] is a mixture of private and state-owned, but books and movies must be approved by the [[Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance]] before being released to the public. The [[Internet]] has become enormously popular among the Iranian youth. Iran is now the world's fourth largest country of [[Iranian Blogs|bloggers]].<ref>[http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2004/dec/20/iran.blogging Freedom in Farsi blogs]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref>

===Language and literature===
{{Main|Persian language|History of the Persian language|Persian literature}}
{{See also|Music of Iran|Persian miniature}}

[[File:Moderniranianlanguagesmap.jpg|thumb|300px|Geographic distribution of the Modern Iranian languages: Persian (green), Pashto (purple) and Kurdish (turquoise), Lurish (red), Baloch (Yellow), as well as smaller communities of other Iranian languages]]

Article 15 of the Iranian constitution states that the "Official language (of Iran)... is Persian...[and]... the use of regional and tribal languages in the press and mass media, as well as for teaching of their literature in schools, is allowed in addition to Persian." Persian serves as a ''[[lingua franca]]'' in Iran and most publications and broadcastings are in this language.

Next to Persian, there are many publications and broadcastings in other relatively popular languages of Iran such as [[Azerbaijani language|Azeri]], [[Kurdish language|Kurdish]] and even in less popular ones such as Arabic and [[Armenian language|Armenian]]. Many [[Iranian languages|languages]] originated in Iran, but Persian is the most used language. Persian belongs to the [[Aryan]] or [[Iranian languages|Iranian]] branch of the [[Indo-European languages|Indo-European]] family of languages. The oldest records in [[Old Persian]] date to the [[Achaemenid Empire]],<ref>{{Cite book|title=The Languages of the World|year=2002|last=Katzner|first=Kenneth|publisher=Routledge|page=163|isbn=0415250048}}</ref> and examples of Old Persian have been found in present-day Iran, Iraq, [[Turkey]] and [[Egypt]].

In the late 8th century, Persian was highly Arabized and written in a [[Perso-Arabic script|modified Arabic script]]. This caused a movement supporting the revival of Persian. An important event of this revival was the writing of the ''[[Shahname]]'' by [[Ferdowsi]] (Persian: ''Epic of Kings''), Iran's national epic, which is said to have been written entirely in native Persian. This gave rise to a strong reassertion of Iranian national identity, and is in part credited for the continued existence of Persian as a separate language.

''{{cquote|<center>بسی رنج بردم در این سال سی عجم زنده کردم بدین پارسی</center>''For thirty years, I suffered much pain and strife with Persian I gave the [[Ajam]] verve and life''}}<center>''—[[Ferdowsi]]'' (935–1020)</center>''

[[File:Kelileh va Demneh.jpg|thumb|left|140px|[[Kelileh va Demneh]] Persian manuscript copy dated 1429]]

[[File:Mehmooni2.jpg|thumb|120px|17th century painting from Hasht-Bahesht palace, Isfahan]]

Persian beside Arabic has been a medium for literary and scientific contributions to the [[Islamic world]] especially in [[Anatolia]], [[central Asia]] and [[Indian sub-continent]]. Poetry is a very important part of Persian culture. Poetry is used in many Persian classical works, whether from literature, science, or metaphysics. Persian literature has been considered by such thinkers as [[Goethe]] as one of the four main bodies of world literature.<ref>Von David Levinson, Karen Christensen, Encyclopedia of Modern Asia, Charles Scribner's Sons. 2002 pg 48</ref>

The Persian language has produced a number of famous poets; however, only a few poets as [[Rumi]] and [[Omar Khayyám]] have surfaced among western popular readership, even though the likes of [[Hafez]], [[Saadi (poet)|Saadi]], [[Nezami]]<ref>C. A. (Charles Ambrose) Storey and Franço de Blois (2004), “Persian Literature – A Biobibliographical Survey: Volume V Poetry of the Pre-Mongol Period.”, RoutledgeCurzon; 2nd revised edition (21 June 2004). ISBN 0-947593-47-0. Pg 363: “Nizami Ganja’i, whose personal name was Ilyas, is the most celebrated native poet of the Persians after Firdausi. His nisbah designates him as a native of Ganja (Elizavetpol, Kirovabad) in Azerbaijan, then still a country with an Iranian population</ref> [[Attar Neyshapuri|Attar]], [[Sanai]], [[Naser Khusraw]], [[Jami]] are considered by many Iranians to be just as influential. The books of famous poets have been translated into western languages since 1634. An example of Persian poetic influence is the poem below which is widely popular:

''{{cquote|<center>بنى آدم اعضای يک پیکرند که در آفرينش ز يک گوهرند چو عضوى به درد آورد روزگار دگر عضوها را نماند قرار</center>''Of one Essence is the human race thus has Creation put the base One Limb impacted is sufficient For all Others to feel the Mace''}}<center>''—[[Saadi (poet)|Saadi]]'' (1184–1283)</center>''

===Art and architecture===
{{Main|Iranian architecture|Iranian art}}

[[Greater Iran]] is home to one of the richest [[art]]istic traditions in world history and encompasses many disciplines, including [[architecture]], [[painting]], [[weaving]], [[pottery]], [[calligraphy]], [[metalworking]] and [[stone masonry]]. Carpet-weaving is one of the most distinguished manifestations of Persian culture and art, and dates back to ancient Persia. Persians were among the first to use [[mathematics]], [[geometry]], and [[astronomy]] in architecture and also have extraordinary skills in making massive domes which can be seen frequently in the structure of bazaars and mosques. The main building types of classical [[Iranian architecture]] are the [[mosque]] and the [[palace]]. Iran, besides being home to a large number of art houses and galleries, also holds one of the [[Iranian Crown Jewels|largest and valuable jewel collections]] in the world.

Iran ranks seventh among countries in the world with the most archeological architectural ruins and attractions from antiquity as recognized by [[UNESCO]].<ref>[http://www.american.edu/ted/iran-tour.htm Bustling bazaars and ancient sights, parched deserts and snowcapped mountains, awesome architecture and simple hospitality]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> Fifteen of [[UNESCO]]'s [[World Heritage Site]]s are creations of [[Iranian architecture]].
{{-}}

{{wide image|Esfahan-shah-sq.jpg|650px|Panoramic view of [[Naqsh-e Jahan Square]]}}

==Science and technology==
{{Main|Science in Iran}}
{{See also|Education in Iran|Higher education in Iran}}
[[File:Ghotb2.jpg|thumb|upright|left|130px|13th century manuscript depicting an [[Epicycle|epicyclic planetary model]]]]

Ancient Iranians built [[Qanat]]s and [[Yakhchal]] to provide and keep water. The first [[windmill]] appeared in Iran in the 9th century.<ref name="Al-Hassan, Hill, p.54f.">[[Ahmad Y Hassan]], [[Donald Routledge Hill]] (1986). ''Islamic Technology: An illustrated history'', p. 54. [[Cambridge University Press]]. ISBN 0-521-42239-6.</ref> Iranians contributed significantly to the current understanding of [[astronomy]], [[natural science]], [[medicine]], [[mathematics]], and [[philosophy]]. [[Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī|Khwarizmi]] is widely hailed as the father of algebra. Ethanol (alcohol) was first identified by Persian alchemists such as [[Muhammad ibn Zakarīya Rāzi]]. Throughout the [[Middle Ages]], the [[natural philosophy]] and [[mathematics]] of the Ancient Greeks and Persians were furthered and preserved within Persia. The [[Academy of Gundishapur]] was a renowned centre of learning in the city of [[Gundeshapur]] during late antiquity and was the most important medical centre of the ancient world during the sixth and seventh centuries.<ref>The Cambridge History of Iran Vol 4, p396. ISBN 0-521-20093-8</ref> During this period, Persia became a centre for the manufacture of [[Measuring instrument|scientific instruments]], retaining its reputation for quality well into the 19th century.

[[File:Iran rocket irilv.jpg|thumb|130px|Iran's first domestically made satellite ([[Omid (satellite)|Omid]]) was placed into orbit through [[Safir (rocket)|Safir rocket]] in 2009]]

Iran strives to revive the golden age of Persian science. The country has increased its publication output nearly tenfold from 1996 through 2004, and has been ranked first in terms of output growth rate followed by China.<ref>[http://experts.about.com/q/Economics-2301/economic.htm About.com]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> Despite the limitations in funds, facilities, and international collaborations, [[List of Iranian scientists|Iranian scientists]] remain highly productive in several experimental fields, such as [[pharmacology]], [[pharmaceutical chemistry]], [[organic chemistry]], and [[polymer chemistry]]. Iranian scientists are also helping construct the [[Compact Muon Solenoid]], a detector for [[CERN]]'s [[Large Hadron Collider]]. In 2009, a SUSE Linux-based HPC system made by the Aerospace Research Institute of Iran (ARI) was launched with 32 cores and now runs 96 cores. Its performance was pegged at 192 [[GFLOPS]].<ref>[http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=knowledge_center&articleId=340338&taxonomyId=1&intsrc=kc_top Computerworld.com]</ref>

In the biomedical sciences, Iran's [[Institute of Biochemistry and Biophysics]] is a [[UNESCO]] chair in biology.<ref>[http://www.ibb.ut.ac.ir/ Institute of Biochemistry and Biophysics]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> In late 2006, [[List of modern Iranian scientists|Iranian scientists]] successfully [[Cloning|cloned]] a sheep by somatic cell nuclear transfer, at the [[Royan Institute|Rouyan research centre]] in Tehran.<ref>[http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=17674 Middle East Online ميدل ايست اونلاين] The first successfully cloned animal in Iran retrieved 7 August 2008</ref> According to a study by David Morrison and Ali Khademhosseini (Harvard-MIT and Cambridge), [[stem cell research]] in Iran is amongst the top 10 in the world.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://isg-mit.org/projects-storage/StemCell/stem_cell_iran.pdf |title=Iranian Studies Group at MIT |format=PDF |date= |accessdate=2010-08-25}}</ref> Iran ranks 15th in the world in [[nanotechnologies]].<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://en.nano.ir/index.php/news/show/1477|title=INIC - News - 73% of Tehran's Students Acquainted with Nanotechnology|publisher=En.nano.ir|date=2010-01-18|accessdate=2010-08-01}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/bm/newsworld.php?id=453647|title=Iran Ranks 15th In Nanotech Articles|publisher=Bernama|date=2009-11-09|accessdate=2010-08-01}}</ref><ref>[http://www.iran-daily.com/1388/3372/html/science.htm Iran daily: Iranian Technology From Foreign Perspective]{{Dead link|date=August 2010}}</ref>

[[File:Astrolabe-Persian-18C.jpg|thumb|left|upright|An 18th century Persian [[astrolabe]]]]

The [[Iranian nuclear program]] was launched in the 1950s. Iran is the 7th country in production of [[UF6|uranium hexafluoride]].<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1156.html|title=Iran, 7th in UF6 production - IAEO official|publisher=Payvand.com|date=2006-11-22|accessdate=2010-08-01}}</ref> Iran now controls the entire [[Nuclear fuel cycle|cycle for producing nuclear fuel]].<ref>[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090411/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_nuclear_4 ]{{Dead link|date=August 2010}}</ref> Iran's current facilities includes several research reactors, a [[uranium]] mine, an almost complete commercial [[nuclear reactor]], and uranium processing facilities that include a [[Enriched uranium#Gas centrifuge|uranium enrichment plant]].

The [[Iranian Space Agency]] launched its first [[reconnaissance satellite]] named [[Sina-1]] in 2006, and a space rocket in 2007,<ref>[http://asia.news.yahoo.com/070225/afp/070225120805top.html Rocket launch]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> which aimed at improving science and research for university students.<ref>[http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/2/26/90124.shtml Iran Says 'Space Rocket' for Research]. NewsMax.com, 26 February 2007.</ref> Iran placed its domestically built [[satellite]], [[Omid (satellite)|Omid]] into orbit on the 30th anniversary of the [[Iranian Revolution]], on 2 February 2009,<ref>[http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=84914&sectionid=351020101 Iran scientific savvy 'amazes world'], [[Press TV]], Retrieved on 11 February 2009.</ref> through [[Safir (rocket)|Safir rocket]], becoming the ninth country in the world capable of both producing a [[satellite]] and sending it into [[space]] from a domestically made [[launch pad|launcher]].<ref>[http://www.presstv.ir/Detail.aspx?id=84906&sectionid=351020101 West 'shocked by Iran spaceshot'], [[Press TV]], Retrieved on 11 February 2009.</ref>

[[List of Iranian scientists|Iranian scientists]] outside Iran have also made some major contributions to science. In 1960, [[Ali Javan]] co-invented the first [[gas laser]] and [[Fuzzy set|fuzzy set theory]] was introduced by [[Lotfi Zadeh]].<ref>[http://www-bisc.cs.berkeley.edu/Zadeh-1965.pdf cs.berkeley.edu]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> Iranian cardiologist, [[Toffy Musivand|Tofy Mussivand]] invented and developed the first artificial cardiac pump, the precursor of the [[artificial heart]]. Furthering research and treatment of diabetes, [[HbA1c]] was discovered by [[Samuel Rahbar]]. Iranian physics is especially strong in [[string theory]], with many papers being published in Iran.<ref>[http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2001/PR09.01EIran.html CERN – European Organization for Nuclear Research]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> [[Iranian-American]] string theorist [[Cumrun Vafa]] proposed the [[Vafa-Witten theorem]] together with [[Edward Witten]].

==Sports==
{{Main|Sport in Iran}}
[[File:Azadistadium tehran iran.jpg|thumb|[[Azadi Stadium|Azadi Football Stadium]]]]
[[File:Dizin.jpg|thumb|left|[[Dizin]] skiing resort, Iran]]
With two thirds of Iran's population under the age of 25, many sports are practised in Iran, both traditional and modern. Iran is the birthplace of [[polo]],<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4272210.stm news.bb.co.uk]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> and [[Varzesh-e Pahlavani]]. [[Freestyle wrestling]] has been traditionally regarded as Iran's [[national sport]], however today, the most popular sport in Iran is [[football (soccer)]], with the [[Iran national football team|national team]] having reached the [[Football World Cup|World Cup]] Final Tournament three times, and having won the [[Asian Cup]] on three occasions. In [[1974 Asian Games|1974]], Iran became the first country in the [[Middle East]] to host the [[Asian Games]]. Iran is home to several unique skiing resorts,<ref>[http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000088&sid=aGpcjac1ZTF8&refer=culture bloomberg.com]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> with the [[Tochal]] resort being the world's fifth-highest ski resort ({{convert|3730|m|ft|0|abbr=on|disp=/}} at its highest station), and located only fifteen minutes away from Tehran. Being a mountainous country, Iran is a venue for hiking, rock climbing,<ref>[http://www.rockclimbing.com Rockclimbing.com: Rock Climbing Routes, Gear, Photos, Videos & Articles]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref> and mountain climbing.<ref>[http://www.mountainzone.ir Iran Mountain Zone (IMZ)]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref><ref>[http://www.abc-of-mountaineering.com/middle-east/iran/ Mountaineering in Iran]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref><ref>[http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=News&id=2062458 Local Woman Feared Dead In Iran Mountain Hike]. Retrieved 23 January 2008.</ref>

==See also==
{{Portal|Iran}}
{{Main|Outline of Iran}}
*[[List of Iran-related topics]]
*[[Greater Iran]]
*{{Wikinews-inline}}

==References==

{{Reflist|colwidth=30em}}

==Further reading==
*A. Christian Van Gorder. ''Christianity in Persia and the Status of Non-Muslims in Iran'' (Lexington Books; 2010) 329 pages. Traces the role of Persians in Persia and later Iran since ancient times, with additional discussion of other non-Muslim groups.
*[[Benjamin Walker]], ''Persian Pageant: A Cultural History of Iran,'' Arya Press, Calcutta, 1950.
*A. Khanbaghi. ''The Fire, the Star and the Cross: Minority Religions in Medieval and Early Modern Iran'' (IB Tauris; 2006) 268 pages. Social, political and cultural history of religious minorities in Iran, c. 226-1722 AD.

==External links==
{{Sister project links}}
*[http://www.president.ir/en/ The President of Iran]
*[http://en.iran.ir/ Iran.ir]
*{{CIA World Factbook link|ir|Iran}}
*{{dmoz|Regional/Middle_East/Iran}}
*{{wikiatlas|Iran}}
*{{Wikitravel}}
{{Geographic location
|Northwest = {{Flag icon|Turkey}} [[Outline of Turkey|Turkey]]
|North = {{Flag icon|Armenia}} [[Armenia]], {{Flag icon|Azerbaijan}} [[Azerbaijan]], [[Caspian Sea]]
|Northeast = {{Flag icon|Turkmenistan}} [[Outline of Turkmenistan|Turkmenistan]]
|West = {{Flag icon|Iraq}} [[Outline of Iraq|Iraq]]
|Centre = {{Flag icon|Iran}} [[Outline of Iran|Iran]]
|East = {{Flag icon|Afghanistan}} [[Outline of Afghanistan|Afghanistan]]
|Southwest = {{Flag icon|Kuwait}} [[Outline of Kuwait|Kuwait]]
|South = [[Persian Gulf]], [[Gulf of Oman]]
|Southeast = {{Flag icon|Pakistan}} [[Outline of Pakistan|Pakistan]]
}}
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{{Iran topics}}
{{Template group
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{{Countries bordering the Caspian Sea}}
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{{Countries of Southwest Asia}}
{{Countries and Territories of South Asia}}
}}
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{{Economic Cooperation Organization}}
{{D8 nations}}
{{G15 nations}}
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{{Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC)|state=collapsed}}
{{Iranian-speaking regions}}
{{Islamic republics}}
}}
{{Use dmy dates|date=October 2010}}

[[Category:Iran| ]]
[[Category:Developing 8 Countries member states]]
[[Category:G15 nations]]
[[Category:Iranian Plateau]]
[[Category:Islamic republics]]
[[Category:Middle Eastern countries]]
[[Category:Near Eastern countries]]
[[Category:OPEC member states]]
[[Category:Organisation of the Islamic Conference members]]
[[Category:Persian Gulf countries]]
[[Category:Persian-speaking countries and territories]]
[[Category:Southwest Asian countries]]
[[Category:Western Asia]]

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Giovanni van Bronckhorst

2010-07-11T23:16:04Z

Parthian Scribe: removing ethnicity from lead per WP:MOSBIO. ethnicity is explained in more detail later in the article

{{Infobox Football biography 2
| playername = Giovanni van Bronckhorst
| fullname = Giovanni Christian van Bronckhorst<ref>{{cite news| url = http://www.footballdatabase.com/index.php?page=player&Id=660| title = Giovanni van Bronckhorst | publisher = Football Database|accessdate = 16 August 2009}}</ref>
| image = [[Image:Giovanni van Bronckhorst.jpg|250px]]
| height = {{height|m=1.78}}
| dateofbirth = {{birth date and age|1975|2|5}}
| cityofbirth = [[Rotterdam]]
| countryofbirth = [[Netherlands]]
| position = [[Defender (association football)|Left back]] / [[Midfielder|Defensive midfielder]]
| years1 = 1993–1994
| years2 = 1994–1998
| years3 = 1998–2001
| years4 = 2001–2003
| years5 = 2003–2007
| years6 = 2007–2010
| clubs1 = [[RKC Waalwijk]]
| clubs2 = [[Feyenoord]]
| clubs3 = [[Rangers F.C.|Rangers]]
| clubs4 = [[Arsenal F.C.|Arsenal]]
| clubs5 = [[FC Barcelona|Barcelona]]
| clubs6 = [[Feyenoord]]
| caps1 = 12
| caps2 = 103
| caps3 = 81
| caps4 = 52
| caps5 = 119
| caps6 = 89
| goals1 = 2
| goals2 = 22
| goals3 = 13
| goals4 = 2
| goals5 = 7
| goals6 = 8
| totalcaps = 456
| totalgoals = 54
| nationalyears1 = 1996–2010
| nationalteam1 = [[Netherlands national football team|Netherlands]]
| nationalcaps1 = 113
| nationalgoals1 = 6
| pcupdate = 00:07, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
| ntupdate = 00:07, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
}}

'''Giovanni Christian van Bronckhorst''' ({{IPA-nl|dʒoʊˈvɑni vɑn ˈbrɔŋkhɔrst}}; born 5 February 1975 in [[Rotterdam]]), known as '''Gio''' for short, is a former [[Netherlands|Dutch]] [[Association football|football]]er of who played for Dutch [[Eredivisie]] club [[Feyenoord]] and served as the [[Captain (association football)|captain]] of the [[Netherlands national football team|Dutch national team]] until his retirement in July 2010.

Van Bronckhorst signed a three-year contract with Feyenoord in June 2007, leaving [[FC Barcelona]] as a free agent. Prior to joining Barcelona, Bronckhorst played for [[RKC Waalwijk]] (1993–94), [[Feyenoord]] (1994–98), [[Rangers F.C.|Rangers]] (1998–2001), and [[Arsenal F.C.|Arsenal]] (2001–03).

He has earned over 100 [[Cap (sport)|caps]] for the [[Netherlands national football team|Dutch national team]], and played for his country in three [[FIFA World Cup|World Cups]] ([[1998 FIFA World Cup|1998]], [[2006 FIFA World Cup|2006]] and [[2010 FIFA World Cup|2010]]), as well as three [[UEFA European Football Championship|European Championships]] ([[UEFA Euro 2000|2000]], [[UEFA Euro 2004|2004]], and [[UEFA Euro 2008|2008]]).

== Club career ==

=== Childhood and early career ===
Van Bronckhorst was born in Rotterdam to a [[Indo_people|Dutch Indo-European]] father and a [[Maluku Islands|Moluccan]] mother.<ref name="officialbio">[http://giovanbronckhorst.wimsicl.com/autobiography%20entry/18249.1975-1990_%20EARLY%20YEARS Autobiography entry: The Early Years 1975-1990] - Giovanni van Bronkhorst Official Site</ref> He began playing for a local amateur youth team in Rotterdam from the age of 6, joining the youth academy at [[Feyenoord]] the following year.<ref name="officialbio"/> In 1990, aged 15, the club offered him a professional contract, which he accepted.<ref name="officialbio"/> He won the Dutch Youth League with Feyenoord in 1991, but struggled to break into the first team.<ref name="officialbio2">[http://giovanbronckhorst.wimsicl.com/autobiography%20entry/18250.1990-1996_%20STARTING%20AT%20FEYENOORD Autobiography entry: Making it at Feyenoord 1990-1996] - Giovanni van Bronkhorst Official Site</ref> He was loaned out to [[RKC Waalwijk]], making his [[Eredivise]] debut in 1993. He returned to Feyenoord for the 1994/5 season, but was used as a fringe player, making only ten appearances for the club.<ref name="officialbio2"/> 1995–96 was his breakthrough season, as he started almost every game for Feyenoord, playing alongside the likes of [[Regi Blinker]] and [[Henrik Larsson]].<ref name="officialbio2"/>

He also made his debut for the national Olympic team in 1996, although they failed to qualify for the [[Football at the 1996 Summer Olympics|1996 Olympic Games]] in [[Atlanta]].<ref name="officialbio2"/> He was given his first full international cap in August 1996, being given a starting place by [[Guus Hiddink]] in the [[Holland national football team|Oranje's]] lineup to face [[Brazil national football team|Brazil]] in a friendly at the [[Amsterdam Arena]].<ref name="officialbio3">[http://giovanbronckhorst.wimsicl.com/autobiography%20entry/18262.1996-1998_%20PLAYING%20FOR%20HOLLAND Autobiography entry:Playing for Holland 1996-1998] - Giovanni van Bronkhorst Official Site</ref> He was part of the Holland squad for the [[1998 World Cup]], but did not play during the tournament.<ref name="officialbio3"/>

Domestically, with Feyenoord failing to break the [[PSV Eindhoven|PSV]]-[[AFC Ajax|Ajax]] strangehold on the [[Eredivise]] for the fourth year in a row, and major players such as [[Henrik Larsson|Larsson]] leaving the team, van Bronckhorst began to search for a new club.<ref name="officialbio3"/> He chose to join up with [[Dick Advocaat]] (his former manager at international U-16 and U-18 level) at [[Glasgow Rangers]], joining the club in 1998 for a fee of £5.5m.<ref name="officialbio3"/> He cites Larsson, who had joined Rangers' Glasgow rivals [[Celtic F.C.|Celtic]], as a major factor in persuading him to move to Scotland.<ref name="officialbio3"/> Fellow Feyenoord teammates [[Regi Blinker]] and [[Bobby Petta]] had also joined Celtic.<ref name="officialbio3"/>

=== Rangers ===
Van Bronckhorst was already a regular international when he signed for Rangers in 1998, joining up with compatriot [[Dick Advocaat]], the Scottish club's new manager. In his first competitive game for Rangers, a remarkable [[UEFA Cup]] tie away to League of Ireland side [[Shelbourne FC|Shelbourne]] (although played at [[Tranmere Rovers F.C.|Tranmere Rovers]]' Prenton Park), van Bronckhorst marked his debut with a finely-struck goal as Rangers came back from 3–0 down to win the match 5–3. Van Bronckhorst went on to score 22 goals for Rangers (13 in the league, three in the [[Scottish Cup]], one in the [[Scottish League Cup]], three in the [[UEFA Champions League|Champions League]] and two in the UEFA Cup), mostly as a play-making midfielder of notable skill and subtlety, before an £8.5 m transfer to Arsenal in the summer of 2001.

=== Arsenal ===
[[Arsène Wenger]] signed van Bronckhorst to replace the midfield void left by the departure of [[Emmanuel Petit]] from Arsenal and he was expected to partner [[Patrick Vieira]] in the centre.<ref>{{cite news
| url = http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/1484947.stm
| title = Gio could be key to Arsenal glory
| work = [[BBC Sport]]
| publisher = British Broadcasting Corporation
| date = 13 August 2001
| accessdate = 9 March 2009
}}</ref> However, his period at Arsenal was marked by a [[Cruciate ligament|cruciate knee ligament]] injury which saw him sidelined after only a few months at the club. When he returned, his role was increasingly minimal and he found himself behind Vieira, [[Eduardo César Gaspar|Edu]] and shortly before his departure to Barcelona, [[Gilberto Silva]] in the pecking order. He did not leave Arsenal without any silverware, however, as he collected two [[FA Cup]] winners' medals (despite not playing in either final) and a [[Premier League]] winners medal in 2002. He scored two league goals in his time at Arsenal, one against [[Leicester City F.C.|Leicester City]] in January 2002<ref>{{cite news
|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/1768414.stm
|title=Arsenal maintain title push
|publisher=[[BBC]]
|date=23 January 2002 |accessdate=18 August 2009}}</ref> and one against [[Chelsea F.C.|Chelsea]] in January 2003.<ref>{{cite news
|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2606695.stm
|title=Arsenal edge past Chelsea
|publisher=[[BBC]]
|date=1 January 2003 |accessdate=18 August 2009}}</ref>

=== Barcelona ===
[[Image:Giovanni van Bronckhorst 25nov2006.jpg|thumb|upright|van Bronckhorst at Barcelona]]

As the 2003–04 season approached, van Bronckhorst had the opportunity to move to [[FC Barcelona]] and work with new boss [[Frank Rijkaard]] on a one-year loan, with a view to a permanent transfer.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/barcelona-complete-van-bronckhorst-loan-deal-537205.html |title=Barcelona complete van Bronckhorst loan deal |publisher=[[The Independent]] |date=27 August 2003 |accessdate=3 February 2010 | location=London | first=Andy | last=Hodges}}</ref> After adapting to his new role as a left back, he helped Barça to a revival in the second half of the season. In May 2004, van Bronckhorst completed his move from Arsenal to Barcelona for a fee of €2 million, signing a three-year deal.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SPORT/football/05/25/spain.bronkhorst/index.html |title=Bronckhorst completes Barca switch |publisher=[[CNN]] |date=25 May 2004 |accessdate=3 February 2010}}</ref> He won the [[La Liga]] title with Barça in the 2004–05 season after some of his finest displays together with 4 goals to his credit. In 2005–06, he helped his club repeat as Liga champions while winning the 2006 Champions League as well (he was the only player who participated in all Champions League matches that season). In Spain, he used 'Gio' as the name on his shirt, as opposed to 'Bronckhorst' from his time at Arsenal. He said on Dutch Football program Studio Voetbal, that he could return to [[Feyenoord]] due to a contract clause that allows him to sign immediately with the club he supported as a boy.

=== Feyenoord ===
[[File:Giovanni_van_Bronckhorst_005.jpg|thumb|left|upright|Van Bronckhorst at Feyenoord]]

On 21 August 2007, van Bronckhorst's contract with Barça ended and he subsequently joined up with Feyenoord for the second time in his career. Since joining, van Bronckhorst has become a pivotal member of the Eredivisie team's squad, most recently proving to be something of a rock in an injury-hit side. At the beginning of his first season in Rotterdam, coach [[Bert van Marwijk]] made van Bronckhorst captain.

On 12 May 2010, he announced that he will end his playing career after the [[World Cup 2010]] in South Africa.<ref>[http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/niederlande-van-bronckhorst-hoert-nach-wm-auf-/news/anzeigen_39196.html Niederlande: van Bronckhorst hört nach WM auf]</ref>

== International career ==
Van Bronckhorst made his national team debut in August 1996 at the [[FNB Stadium]] (now known as Soccer City) in a match against [[South Africa]] and has since gone on to earn over 100 caps, including three [[FIFA World Cup|World Cup]] and three [[UEFA European Football Championship|Euro]] campaigns. He did not appear in the [[1998 FIFA World Cup|1998 World Cup]] and only saw limited action in [[UEFA Euro 2000|Euro 2000]] as cover for leftback [[Arthur Numan]].

=== Euro 2004 ===
However later national team coaches appreciated van Bronkhorst's leftback capabilities, most notably [[Dick Advocaat]] who played him for the Netherlands in the [[UEFA Euro 2004|Euro 2004]] competition in [[Portugal]]. The Dutch team reached the semi-finals of the tournament when the host team, [[Portugal national football team|Portugal]], eliminated them.
[[Image:Gio Oranje.jpg|thumb|upright|Van Bronckhorst playing for the Netherlands]]

=== 2006 World Cup ===
He was a regular in the national team for the [[2006 FIFA World Cup|2006 World Cup]] qualification campaign. However, in the Round of 16 match against Portugal (see [[Battle of Nuremberg]]), he received a [[Misconduct (football)|red card]] in a match that saw four red cards given, a World Cup record. There was an unusual scene in which van Bronckhorst was sitting in the stands next to his FC Barcelona teammate at the time, Deco of Portugal who had also been sent off.

=== Euro 2008 ===
Van Bronckhorst scored the winning goal in a Euro 2008 qualifying match against [[Slovenia national football team|Slovenia]] on 28 March 2007. The Netherlands won the match 1–0.<ref>{{nl}} {{cite web | title=Gespeelde wedstrijden | publisher=KNVB | url=http://knvb.nl/oranje/selectie/spelers/detail/gesp-wedstr?player_id=20030901143325607 | accessdate=2007-05-16 }}</ref>

On 9 June 2008, while playing in a 3–0 victory over [[Italy national football team|Italy]] in [[UEFA Euro 2008]], he assisted in the second goal scored by the Netherlands and also scored the third goal, after running all the way from the back. For the second goal, he first cleared the ball off his own line and ran deep into the Italian half, then received the ball and crossed it to [[Dirk Kuyt]] who headed it down to [[Wesley Sneijder]] to slot between the post and the advancing [[Gianluigi Buffon]]. He later even scored another one himself to condemn the world champions to an embarrassing defeat.

===2010 World Cup===
Van Bronckhorst has announced that he will retire from football after the [[2010 World Cup]]. He was included in the preliminary squad for the tournament,<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iO9bETRJh0iovmmUN7ZeFDugTEIg |title=van Marwijk trims Dutch squad to 27 | publisher=AFP|date=2010-05-15 |accessdate=2010-05-18 }}</ref> and on 27 May 2010, Netherlands manager [[Bert van Marwijk]] announced that he would be part of the final squad of 23, and would serve as the team captain.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/27/holland-world-cup-23-man-squad |title=Holland coach Bert van Marwijk finalises World Cup squad |publisher=The Guardian |date=2010-05-27 |agency=Press Association |accessdate=2010-05-27}}</ref> Van Bronckhorst earned his 100th cap in the opening group match versus [[Denmark national football team|Denmark]]. In the semi-final against [[Uruguay national football team|Uruguay]] he scored the opening goal of the match, which the Netherlands won 3–2.
In the World Cup Final between Netherland and Spain, he was substituted in the 105th minute.There was a spectacular round of applause as he left the ground for the Last time.

=== International goals ===

{| class="wikitable"
! Num !! Date !! Venue !! Opponent !! Score !! Result !! Competition
|-
| 1. || June 04, 1997 || [[Johannesburg]], [[South Africa]] || {{fb|RSA}} || 0–1 || 0–2 || [[Friendly match]]
|-
| 2. || September 2, 2000 || [[Amsterdam]], [[Netherlands]] || {{fb|IRL}} || 2–2 || 2–2 || [[2002 FIFA World Cup qualification|World Cup 2002 qualifier]]
|-
| 3. || February 12, 2003 || [[Amsterdam]], [[Netherlands]] || {{fb|ARG}} || 1–0 || 1–0 || [[Friendly match]]
|-
| 4. || March 28, 2007 || [[Celje]], [[Slovenia]] || {{fb|SVN}} || 0–1 || 0–1 || [[UEFA Euro 2008 qualifying|Euro 2008 qualifier]]
|-
| 5. || June 9, 2008 || [[Bern]], [[Switzerland]] || {{fb|ITA}} || 3–0 || 3–0 || [[UEFA Euro 2008]]
|-
| 7. || July 6, 2010 || [[Cape Town]], [[South Africa]] || {{fb|URU}} || 1–0 || 3–2 || [[2010 FIFA World Cup]]
|-
|}

==Awards and honours==
=== Club===
{{flagicon|Scotland}} '''[[Rangers F.C.|Rangers]]'''
*[[Scottish Premier League]]: [[1998–99 Scottish Premier League|1998-99]], [[1999–2000 Scottish Premier League|1999-2000]]
*[[Scottish Cup]]: [[1999 Scottish Cup Final|1999]], [[2000 Scottish Cup Final|2000]]
*[[League Cup]]: [[1998 Scottish League Cup Final|1998]]

{{flagicon|England}} '''[[Arsenal F.C.|Arsenal]]'''
*[[Premier League]]: [[2001–02 FA Premier League|2001-02]]
*[[FA Cup]]: [[2002 FA Cup Final|2002]], [[2003 FA Cup Final|2003]]

{{flagicon|Spain}} '''[[FC Barcelona|Barcelona]]'''
*[[La Liga]]: [[2004–05 La Liga|2004–05]], [[2005–06 La Liga|2005–06]]
*[[Supercopa de España]]: [[2005 Supercopa de España|2005]], [[2006 Supercopa de España|2006]]
*[[UEFA Champions League]]: [[2006 UEFA Champions League Final|2006]]

{{flagicon|Netherlands}} '''[[Feyenoord]]'''
*[[KNVB Cup]]: [[KNVB Cup 1994-95|1994–95]], [[KNVB Cup 2007–08|2007–08]]

===National team===

* [[2006 FIFA World Cup|FIFA World Cup]] Runner-up: 2010

== References ==
{{Reflist}}

== External links ==
{{Commons category}}
*[http://www.fcbes.com/articles/article_gio.php Van Bronckhorst at FC Barcelona English Speaking Supporters Fansite]
*[http://www.vi.nl/vi/show/id=40053/dbid=11208/typeofpage=40054/sc=3117c5 Voetbal International profile]
*{{FIFA player|155679}}
*[http://www.national-football-teams.com/v2/player.php?id=4755 National Football Teams]
*{{wvo|454}}
*[http://giovanbronckhorst.wimsicl.com]- Official Website

{{Navboxes colour
|title=Netherlands squads
|bg=#F1771D
|fg=white
|bordercolor=
|list1=
{{Netherlands Squad 1998 World Cup}}
{{Netherlands Squad 2000 UEFA Euro}}
{{Netherlands Squad 2004 UEFA Euro}}
{{Netherlands Squad 2006 World Cup}}
{{Netherlands Squad 2008 Euro Cup}}
{{Netherlands Squad 2010 World Cup}}
}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Bronckhorst, Giovanni van}}
[[Category:1975 births]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:People from Rotterdam]]
[[Category:Expatriate footballers in England]]
[[Category:Expatriate footballers in Scotland]]
[[Category:Expatriate footballers in Spain]]
[[Category:Dutch expatriate footballers]]
[[Category:Dutch footballers]]
[[Category:Dutch people of Indonesian descent]]
[[Category:Dutch people of Moluccan descent]]
[[Category:Netherlands international footballers]]
[[Category:Eredivisie players]]
[[Category:RKC Waalwijk players]]
[[Category:Feyenoord players]]
[[Category:Rangers F.C. players]]
[[Category:Arsenal F.C. players]]
[[Category:La Liga footballers]]
[[Category:Premier League players]]
[[Category:Scottish Premier League players]]
[[Category:FC Barcelona footballers]]
[[Category:1998 FIFA World Cup players]]
[[Category:UEFA Euro 2000 players]]
[[Category:UEFA Euro 2004 players]]
[[Category:2006 FIFA World Cup players]]
[[Category:UEFA Euro 2008 players]]
[[Category:2010 FIFA World Cup players]]
[[Category:Association football utility players]]
[[Category:FIFA Century Club]]

[[ar:جيوفاني فان برونكهورست]]
[[bg:Джовани ван Бронкхорст]]
[[ca:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[cs:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[da:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[de:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[et:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[es:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[eo:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[fr:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[ga:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[gl:Giovanni Van Bronckhorst]]
[[hr:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[id:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[it:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[he:ג'ובאני ואן ברונקהורסט]]
[[jv:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[lv:Džovanni van Bronkhorsts]]
[[lt:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[hu:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[mr:जियोव्हानी व्हान ब्राँकहोर्स्ट]]
[[ms:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[nl:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[ja:ジョバンニ・ファン・ブロンクホルスト]]
[[no:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[nn:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[pl:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[pt:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[ro:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[ru:Бронкхорст, Джованни ван]]
[[simple:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[sk:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[sl:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[sr:Ђовани ван Бронкхорст]]
[[fi:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[sv:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[tr:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[vi:Giovanni van Bronckhorst]]
[[zh:乔瓦尼·范布隆克霍斯特]]

Persophilia

2009-06-04T18:50:34Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Origins */ fix

'''Persophilia''' and '''Iranophilia''' refer to the appreciation or interest in [[Iranian culture]], [[Demographics of Iran|people]] or [[History of Iran|history]]. One of the most prominent Persophiles was the [[British]] [[literary historian]] [[E. G. Browne]] who participated in the [[Iranian Constitutional Revolution]] in 1906.

==Origins==
Greek leaders who gave themselves Persian titles or names were considered Persophiles,<ref>
{{cite book
| coauthors = Max Cary, Percy Gardner, Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England), JSTOR (Organization), Ernest Arthur Gardner
| year = 1984
| title = Journal of Hellenic Studies
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=L6QxAAAAMAAJ&q=persophile&dq=persophile&pgis=1 Online Version]
</ref> as well as [[Sidon|Sidonian]] kings because of their governmental policies which gave more rights to the Persians.<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Boardman
| first = John
| year = 1982
| title = The Cambridge Ancient History
| publisher = Cambridge University Press
| location = Cambridge, England
| isbn = 0521233488
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=vx251bK988gC&pg=PA322&dq=persophile&sig=ACfU3U2BtLo0sPzi69FuPkGW_ho3QE1pIw Online Version]
</ref> The earliest use of the word "persophile" may have been by the [[Royal Numismatic Society]] in 1838,<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Wertheimer
| first = Londres
| year = 1838
| title = The Numismatic Chronicle
| publisher = Royal Numismatic Society
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=xM9WAAAAIAAJ&q=persophile+date:0-1900&dq=persophile+date:0-1900&lr=&as_brr=0&pgis=1 Online Version]</ref> it was referring to a king of Marium which is in modern-day [[Cyprus]]
. The opposite of Iranophilia is [[Anti-Iranian sentiment|Anti-Iranianism]].

Admiration of the Persians was especially high during the [[Achaemenid dynasty]]. For example, [[Cyrus the Great]] was the only Gentile to be considered a [[Messiah]].<ref>
{{bibleref|Isaiah|45:1}}</ref>

== Notable Persophiles ==

* [[Edward Browne]]
* [[Arthur Upham Pope]]
* [[Richard Nelson Frye]]
* [[Peter Avery]]
* [[John Limbert]]
* [[Dick Davis]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

== External links ==
* [http://www.payvand.com/news/09/feb/1085.html An Iranophile's view on Modern Iran]

[[Category:Admiration_of_foreign_cultures]]
[[Category:Iranian_culture]]
[[Category:Orientalism by type]]

[[sv:Iranofil]]

Persophilia

2009-06-04T18:49:41Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Early Persophiles */ rename

'''Persophilia''' and '''Iranophilia''' refer to the appreciation or interest in [[Iranian culture]], [[Demographics of Iran|people]] or [[History of Iran|history]]. One of the most prominent Persophiles was the [[British]] [[literary historian]] [[E. G. Browne]] who participated in the [[Iranian Constitutional Revolution]] in 1906.

==Origins==
Greek leaders who gave themselves Persian titles or names were considered Persophiles
,<ref>
{{cite book
| coauthors = Max Cary, Percy Gardner, Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England), JSTOR (Organization), Ernest Arthur Gardner
| year = 1984
| title = Journal of Hellenic Studies
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=L6QxAAAAMAAJ&q=persophile&dq=persophile&pgis=1 Online Version]
</ref> as well as [[Sidon|Sidonian]] kings because of their governmental policies which gave more rights to the Persians.<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Boardman
| first = John
| year = 1982
| title = The Cambridge Ancient History
| publisher = Cambridge University Press
| location = Cambridge, England
| isbn = 0521233488
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=vx251bK988gC&pg=PA322&dq=persophile&sig=ACfU3U2BtLo0sPzi69FuPkGW_ho3QE1pIw Online Version]
</ref> The earliest use of the word "persophile" may have been by the [[Royal Numismatic Society]] in 1838,<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Wertheimer
| first = Londres
| year = 1838
| title = The Numismatic Chronicle
| publisher = Royal Numismatic Society
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=xM9WAAAAIAAJ&q=persophile+date:0-1900&dq=persophile+date:0-1900&lr=&as_brr=0&pgis=1 Online Version]</ref> it was referring to a king of Marium which is in modern-day [[Cyprus]]
. The opposite of Iranophilia is [[Anti-Iranian sentiment|Anti-Iranianism]].

Admiration of the Persians was especially high during the [[Achaemenid dynasty]]. For example, [[Cyrus the Great]] was the only Gentile to be considered a [[Messiah]].<ref>
{{bibleref|Isaiah|45:1}}</ref>

== Notable Persophiles ==

* [[Edward Browne]]
* [[Arthur Upham Pope]]
* [[Richard Nelson Frye]]
* [[Peter Avery]]
* [[John Limbert]]
* [[Dick Davis]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

== External links ==
* [http://www.payvand.com/news/09/feb/1085.html An Iranophile's view on Modern Iran]

[[Category:Admiration_of_foreign_cultures]]
[[Category:Iranian_culture]]
[[Category:Orientalism by type]]

[[sv:Iranofil]]

Persophilia

2009-06-04T18:49:18Z

Parthian Scribe: translating more content from swedish wikipedia

'''Persophilia''' and '''Iranophilia''' refer to the appreciation or interest in [[Iranian culture]], [[Demographics of Iran|people]] or [[History of Iran|history]]. One of the most prominent Persophiles was the [[British]] [[literary historian]] [[E. G. Browne]] who participated in the [[Iranian Constitutional Revolution]] in 1906.

==Early Persophiles==
Greek leaders who gave themselves Persian titles or names were considered Persophiles
,<ref>
{{cite book
| coauthors = Max Cary, Percy Gardner, Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England), JSTOR (Organization), Ernest Arthur Gardner
| year = 1984
| title = Journal of Hellenic Studies
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=L6QxAAAAMAAJ&q=persophile&dq=persophile&pgis=1 Online Version]
</ref> as well as [[Sidon|Sidonian]] kings because of their governmental policies which gave more rights to the Persians.<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Boardman
| first = John
| year = 1982
| title = The Cambridge Ancient History
| publisher = Cambridge University Press
| location = Cambridge, England
| isbn = 0521233488
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=vx251bK988gC&pg=PA322&dq=persophile&sig=ACfU3U2BtLo0sPzi69FuPkGW_ho3QE1pIw Online Version]
</ref> The earliest use of the word "persophile" may have been by the [[Royal Numismatic Society]] in 1838,<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Wertheimer
| first = Londres
| year = 1838
| title = The Numismatic Chronicle
| publisher = Royal Numismatic Society
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=xM9WAAAAIAAJ&q=persophile+date:0-1900&dq=persophile+date:0-1900&lr=&as_brr=0&pgis=1 Online Version]</ref> it was referring to a king of Marium which is in modern-day [[Cyprus]]
. The opposite of Iranophilia is [[Anti-Iranian sentiment|Anti-Iranianism]].

Admiration of the Persians was especially high during the [[Achaemenid dynasty]]. For example, [[Cyrus the Great]] was the only Gentile to be considered a [[Messiah]].<ref>
{{bibleref|Isaiah|45:1}}</ref>

== Notable Persophiles ==

* [[Edward Browne]]
* [[Arthur Upham Pope]]
* [[Richard Nelson Frye]]
* [[Peter Avery]]
* [[John Limbert]]
* [[Dick Davis]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

== External links ==
* [http://www.payvand.com/news/09/feb/1085.html An Iranophile's view on Modern Iran]

[[Category:Admiration_of_foreign_cultures]]
[[Category:Iranian_culture]]
[[Category:Orientalism by type]]

[[sv:Iranofil]]

Persophilia

2009-06-04T18:36:13Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Notable Persophiles */ making smaller

'''Persophilia''' and '''Iranophilia''' refer to the appreciation or interest in [[Iranian culture]], [[Demographics of Iran|people]] or [[History of Iran|history]]. Greek leaders who gave themselves Persian titles or names were considered Persophiles
,<ref>
{{cite book
| coauthors = Max Cary, Percy Gardner, Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England), JSTOR (Organization), Ernest Arthur Gardner
| year = 1984
| title = Journal of Hellenic Studies
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=L6QxAAAAMAAJ&q=persophile&dq=persophile&pgis=1 Online Version]
</ref> as well as [[Sidon|Sidonian]] kings because of their governmental policies which gave more rights to the Persians.<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Boardman
| first = John
| year = 1982
| title = The Cambridge Ancient History
| publisher = Cambridge University Press
| location = Cambridge, England
| isbn = 0521233488
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=vx251bK988gC&pg=PA322&dq=persophile&sig=ACfU3U2BtLo0sPzi69FuPkGW_ho3QE1pIw Online Version]
</ref> The earliest use of the word "persophile" may have been by the [[Royal Numismatic Society]] in 1838,<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Wertheimer
| first = Londres
| year = 1838
| title = The Numismatic Chronicle
| publisher = Royal Numismatic Society
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=xM9WAAAAIAAJ&q=persophile+date:0-1900&dq=persophile+date:0-1900&lr=&as_brr=0&pgis=1 Online Version]</ref> it was referring to a king of Marium which is in modern-day [[Cyprus]]
. The opposite of Iranophilia is [[Anti-Iranian sentiment|Anti-Iranianism]].

Admiration of the Persians was especially high during the [[Achaemenid dynasty]]. For example, [[Cyrus the Great]] was the only Gentile to be considered a [[Messiah]].<ref>
{{bibleref|Isaiah|45:1}}</ref>

=== Notable Persophiles ===

* [[Edward Browne]]
* [[Arthur Upham Pope]]
* [[Richard Nelson Frye]]
* [[Peter Avery]]
* [[John Limbert]]
* [[Dick Davis]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Admiration_of_foreign_cultures]]
[[Category:Iranian_culture]]
[[Category:Orientalism by type]]

[[sv:Iranofil]]

Persophilia

2009-06-04T18:35:08Z

Parthian Scribe: Copying persophile list from swedish wikipedia

'''Persophilia''' and '''Iranophilia''' refer to the appreciation or interest in [[Iranian culture]], [[Demographics of Iran|people]] or [[History of Iran|history]]. Greek leaders who gave themselves Persian titles or names were considered Persophiles
,<ref>
{{cite book
| coauthors = Max Cary, Percy Gardner, Society for the Promotion of Hellenic Studies (London, England), JSTOR (Organization), Ernest Arthur Gardner
| year = 1984
| title = Journal of Hellenic Studies
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=L6QxAAAAMAAJ&q=persophile&dq=persophile&pgis=1 Online Version]
</ref> as well as [[Sidon|Sidonian]] kings because of their governmental policies which gave more rights to the Persians.<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Boardman
| first = John
| year = 1982
| title = The Cambridge Ancient History
| publisher = Cambridge University Press
| location = Cambridge, England
| isbn = 0521233488
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=vx251bK988gC&pg=PA322&dq=persophile&sig=ACfU3U2BtLo0sPzi69FuPkGW_ho3QE1pIw Online Version]
</ref> The earliest use of the word "persophile" may have been by the [[Royal Numismatic Society]] in 1838,<ref>
{{cite book
| last = Wertheimer
| first = Londres
| year = 1838
| title = The Numismatic Chronicle
| publisher = Royal Numismatic Society
| location =
| id =
}}
[http://books.google.com/books?id=xM9WAAAAIAAJ&q=persophile+date:0-1900&dq=persophile+date:0-1900&lr=&as_brr=0&pgis=1 Online Version]</ref> it was referring to a king of Marium which is in modern-day [[Cyprus]]
. The opposite of Iranophilia is [[Anti-Iranian sentiment|Anti-Iranianism]].

Admiration of the Persians was especially high during the [[Achaemenid dynasty]]. For example, [[Cyrus the Great]] was the only Gentile to be considered a [[Messiah]].<ref>
{{bibleref|Isaiah|45:1}}</ref>

== Notable Persophiles ==

* [[Edward Browne]]
* [[Arthur Upham Pope]]
* [[Richard Nelson Frye]]
* [[Peter Avery]]
* [[John Limbert]]
* [[Dick Davis]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Admiration_of_foreign_cultures]]
[[Category:Iranian_culture]]
[[Category:Orientalism by type]]

[[sv:Iranofil]]

Iranian nationalism

2009-04-16T03:32:19Z

Parthian Scribe: /* History */ ref

{{Expand|date=March 2007}}


'''Iranian Nationalism''' is the term given to describe a political movement that has been in existence in the Iran for thousands of years to maintain Iranian identity by keeping [[Iranian culture]] and [[Iranian languages]] and oppose [[cultural assimilation]] in the long [[history of Iran]] which dates back thousands of years.

==History==
{{Synthesis|section|date=March 1}}
First recorded history of the '''Iranian nationalism''' dates back to the reign of [[Darius the Great]] (r. [[29 September]] 522-October 486 BCE). In [[Naqsh-e Rustam|Naqsh-e Rostam inscription]] Darius emphasizes on his Persianhood and declares his Aryan lineage to the ancient world:
:''I am Darius, the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, '''a Persian''', '''son of a Persian''', '''an Aryan''', having '''Aryan lineage'''''.<ref>http://www.livius.org/aa-ac/achaemenians/DZ.html</ref>

The second surviving account is of the greatest of the Iranian national epic poet [[Ferdowsi]] who dedicated his life to preserve the national identity, language and heritage of Iran by writing [[Shahnameh]], a [[Persian language|Persian]] [[national epic]] and masterpiece. Shahnameh introduced many [[Iranian national heroes|national heroes]] who fought to keep their country standing.

[[Patrick Clawson]] writes:

:''"Since the days of the [[Achaemenids]], the Iranians had the protection of geography. But high mountains and vast emptiness of the [[Iranian plateau]] were no longer enough to shield Iran from the Russian army or British navy. Both literally, and figuratively, Iran shrank. At the beginning of the nineteenth century, Azerbaijan, Armenia, much of Georgia, and Afghanistan were Iranian, but by the end of the century, all this territory had been lost as a result of European military action. Iran translated her territorial losses into a sense of both victimization and a propensity to interpret European action through the lens of conspiracy. This in turn has helped shape Iranian nationalism into the twenty first century."''<ref>[[Patrick Clawson]]. ''Eternal Iran''. Palgrave. 2005. Coauthored with [[Michael Rubin (historian)|Michael Rubin]]. ISBN 1-4039-6276-6 p.31-32</ref>

Modern nationalism in Iran dates back to 1906, when an almost bloodless [[Constitutional Revolution of Iran|constitutional revolution]] created Iran's first [[Majles of Iran|parliament]].
[[Reza Shah]], helped shape Iranian nationalism by infusing it with a distinctly [[secular]] ideology, and diminishing the influence of Islam on Iran. In addition, Reza Shah sought to change the names of various towns to honor pre-Islamic Persian kings and mythological heroes, and to continue to reduce the power of the mullahs by seeking to [[modernize]] Iran. The Pahlavi dynasty thus was set irrevocably down the road towards infusing the country with a form of secular nationalism, a path that would eventually bring it into conflict with the country's clerical class.
Iranian nationalism was a deciding force in the 1951 movement to [[nationalization|nationalize]] Iran's oil wealth.

== Nationalist parties of Iran ==
=== National Front ===
{{main|National Front (Iran)}}

=== Nation Party ===
{{main|Mellat Iran}}

=== Pan-Iranism ===
{{main|Pan-Iranist Party of Iran}}

===Other===
* [[SUMKA]]
* [[Rastakhiz]]
* [[The Constitutionalist Party of Iran (CPI)]]

==References==
<references/>

==See also==
*[[Reza Shah]]
*[[Mohammad Mossadegh]]
*[[Dariush Forouhar]]

==Further reading==
*Richard W. Cottman, ''Nationalism in Iran'', Pittsburgh, 1979.

s
[[Category:Politics of Iran]]
[[Category:Nationalism]]

Who is Richard W. Cottman???

Iranian Americans

2009-04-08T12:55:08Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Religion */ thumb

{{Infobox Ethnic group
|group = Iranian American
|image = <div style="margin-top:1px; margin-bottom:px;">[[Image:Farhad Rostampour.JPG|60px|Farhad Rostampour]] [[Image:AnoushehAnsari.jpg|60px|Anousheh Ansari]]
[[Image:Goli Ameri.JPG|60px|Goli Ameri]] [[Image:Adrian Pasdar.jpg|60px|Adrian Pasdar]]
[[Image:Catherine Bell 200101233d hr.jpg|60px|Catherine Bell]]
|caption = <div style="background-color:#fee8ab">
|poptime = '''378,000'''<ref name=UScensus>[http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/08s0051.pdf U.S. Census Bureau: Population by Selected Ancestry Group and Region: 2005]</ref>
to '''691,000'''<ref>[http://www.iranian.com/Diaspora/2004/January/USA/index.html Iranian.com | Archive Pages]</ref>
|popplace = [[Western United States|West]], [[Northeastern United States|Northeast]], [[Southern United States|South]]
|langs = [[American English]], [[Persian language|Persian]], and other [[languages of Iran]]
|rels = [[Islam]], [[Christianity]], [[Judaism]], [[Zoroastrianism]], and the [[Bahá'í Faith]]
}}

{{Iranian diaspora}}

'''Iranian Americans''' or '''Persian Americans''' are [[United States of America|American]] citizens of [[Iranian people|Iranian ethnicity]] or heritage. Iranian Americans are among the most highly educated people in the country.<ref name="migrationinformation.org">http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=404</ref><ref name="payvand.com">http://www.payvand.com/news/04/jan/1191.html</ref> Although Iranians have lived in the US in relatively small numbers since the 1930s, a large amount of Iranian-Americans are immigrants that have lived in the US since the [[Islamic Revolution]] of 1979.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?id=404 |title=Spotlight on the Iranian Foreign Born |author=Hakimzadeh, Shirin |coauthors=Dixon, David |year=2006 |month=June |work=US in Focus |publisher=Migration Information Source |quote=The Iranian foreign born are a relatively new population whose migration to the United States was concentrated around the years of the Islamic Revolution (1978-1979). }}</ref>

==History==

Iranian immigration to the United States has been continuous since the 1980s. Between 1980 and 1990, the number of foreign born from Iran in the United States increased by 74 percent.<ref>http://www.migrationinformation.org/USFocus/display.cfm?ID=404</ref> Today, the United States contains the highest number of [[Demography of Iran|Iranians]]. The Iranian-American community has produced a sizable number of [[List of Iranian Americans|individuals notable in many fields]], including [[medicine]], [[engineering]], and [[business]]. The community expanded predominantly in the early 1980s in the wake of the [[Iranian Revolution]] and the fall of the former regime. They have comparatively [[Liberalism|liberal]] political opinions and [[western world|westernized]] lifestyles due in part to [[American culture|American]] [[acculturation]]. Iranian-Americans thus are secular or otherwise, tend to practice moderate, less traditional forms of [[Shi'ism]] (some were forced into [[Right of asylum|asylum]] or [[exile]] for disagreements over religion with the [[Islamic Republic]] of Iran) as well as liberal [[Judaism]].

Many Iranian Americans are also members of the [[Iranian Azeris|Azeri]], [[Armenian Iranians|Armenian]], [[Kurdish people|Kurdish]], [[Iranian Arabs|Arab]], [[Assyrian people|Assyrian]], or other ethnic groups, reflecting the diversity of Iran.

Before the [[Islamic revolution]]," [[American universities]] were very popular in Iran for their quality of education, and this was a major force in drawing a large number of Iranian students to the [[United States]]. In the 1977/78 academic year, there were about 100,000 Iranian students abroad of whom 36,220 were enrolled in the US institutes of higher learning; the rest were mainly in the [[United Kingdom]], [[West Germany]], [[France]], [[Austria]], and [[Italy]]. In the 1978/79 academic year, just on the verge of the revolution, the number of Iranian students enrolled in the US was 45,340, and in 1979/80 reached its peak of 51,310. Iran had the highest number of students in the US compared to any other country. From a total foreign student enrollment in the United States of 263,938 in the 1978/79 academic year, 17% were from Iran. Nigeria ranked second with 16,340 students or 6% of the enrollments. The number of students from other oil exporting countries was also high in that period due to the rapid increase of petroleum prices in the 1970s. The increase in [[oil prices]] brought higher oil revenues to the [[Iranian economy]], and as a result, part of it was invested in students' education abroad, either directly by government financial aid" and/or indirectly by the students' families. This investment paid off and resulted in an excellent cohort of Western-educated professionals. Because Iran had a shortage of high-level manpower at that time, a number of students were returning home after graduation to work. Some had to return because they had received financial aid in exchange for obligation to serve the government or industry upon graduation. Those who were politically dissatisfied with the former regime remained abroad. After the revolution, some of them returned to [[Iran]] to serve the country, but were gradually purged out of the newly established Islamic Republic. Some of the students who graduated abroad after the revolution also did not return because of the ruling clergy's repression in Iran. As a result, the educated elite who left Iran and the new graduates in the U.S. who chose not to return home created a large pool of highly educated and skilled Iranian professionals in the [[United States]]."<ref>Torbat, Akbar E (Spring 2002). "The brain drain from Iran to the United States". Middle East Journal 56 (2): 272–295.</ref>

'''Iranian American Physicians'''

"The earliest Iranian professionals in the US before the revolution were the physicians. They were mostly young temporary trainees who were working as medical interns or residents. Some could establish themselves to continue to practice beyond the residency stage. Their motives to stay in the US were more for professional, social and political reasons than for economic incentives. The total number of Iranian physicians in the US before the revolution grew to 2,306 in 1978. The physicians who migrated to the US after the revolution were mostly experienced and came with their families for a permanent stay. At present, there are about 5,000 [[Iranian physicians]] working in the United States who have their own practice and/or work in medical institutions. Based on a count in 2001, about 4,000 of them obtained their primary medical [[education in Iran]], and have gone through advanced training in the US. There are also about of a 3,000 new generation of Iranian physicians who have received their entire training in some aspects of the field in the US. This increases the total number of Iranian medical doctors in the US to about 8,000."<ref>Torbat, Akbar E (Spring 2002). "The brain drain from Iran to the United States". Middle East Journal 56 (2): 272–295.</ref>

'''Iranian American Professors'''

"Another major group of highly trained Iranian professionals in the US are university professors. Based on a report that was published by the [[National Science Foundation]] in 1998, 1,369 Iranian born professors were teaching engineering and science on a full-time basis in the US. The total number of Iranian professors in the US is substantially higher if the Iranians who teach in other fields and part-time lecturers are added. In 2001, it was estimated that the total number of Iranian professors who teach and research in higher education institutions in the United States was about 4,000."<ref>Torbat, Akbar E (Spring 2002). "The brain drain from Iran to the United States". Middle East Journal 56: 272–295</ref>

==Demography==
===US Census===

Large concentrations of Iranian Americans (also known as ''Persian Americans'') live in the state of [[California]], most of them live in [[Southern California]] particularly around [[Los Angeles]], [[Orange County, California|Orange County]] and La Jolla ([[San Diego]]). Other Iranian-American communities in California include the [[San Francisco Bay Area]], [[Sacramento Valley]], [[San Joaquin Valley]], [[Imperial Valley (California)|Imperial Valley]] and the [[Coachella Valley]]. For this reason, the L.A area with its Iranian American residents is sometimes referred to as "[[Tehrangeles]]" or "Irangeles" among Iranian Americans, in allusion to Iran and its capital, [[Tehran]], which is also a [[sister city]] of Los Angeles.<ref>{{cite news|title=Iranians at odds over talks with 'the Great Satan'|publisher=[[The Sunday Telegraph]]|date=04-06-2006|url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/04/wiran04.xml}}</ref>

Iranian-Americans are far more numerous in the United States than census data indicate, according to research by the Iranian Studies Group, an independent academic organization, at [[Massachusetts Institute of Technology]] (MIT). The group estimates that the actual number of Iranian-Americans may top 691,000 -- more than twice the figure of 338,000 cited in the 2000 [[U.S. census]].<ref name="migrationinformation.org"/>

===Concentrations===
Outside of California, there are also large concentrations in [[Washington DC]] (mostly in [[Northern Virginia]] and [[Montgomery County, Maryland]]), [[Chicago]], [[Atlanta]], [[Las Vegas, Nevada|Las Vegas]], [[New York City]] (and [[Great Neck|Great Neck, NY]]), [[Phoenix, Arizona|Phoenix]], and around [[Dallas]] and [[Houston]], [[Texas]], and a sizable Iranian American community developed in [[Oklahoma]] since the 1970s and 1980's (mostly in the cities of [[Tulsa]] and [[Oklahoma City]]) {{Fact|date=February 2007}}. An [[NPR]] report recently put the Iranian population of [[Beverly Hills]] as high as 20% of the total population. Beverly Hills elected its first Iranian-born [[Mayor]], [[Jimmy Delshad|Jamshid Delshad]], in 2007.<ref>[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5459468 NPR: Living in Tehrangeles: L.A.'s Iranian Community]</ref><ref>[http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-14-beverly-hills-mayor_N.htm?csp=34 Beverly Hills will have first Iranian-born mayor in USA - USATODAY.com]</ref>
Iranian communities in the US also have varying religious populations among each city.

===Education===
The majority of the Iranian born had a bachelor's degree or higher. According to [[Census 2000]], 50.9 percent of Iranian immigrants have attained a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 24.0 percent among the total foreign-born population.<ref name="migrationinformation.org"/> According to the latest census data available, more than one in four Iranian-Americans holds a master's or doctoral degree, the highest rate among 67 ethnic groups studied.<ref name="payvand.com"/>

===Contribution to the economy===
The [[Small Business Administration]] (SBA) recently conducted a study that found Iranian immigrants among the top 20 immigrant groups with the highest rate of business ownership, contributing substantially to the U.S. economy. According to the report, there are 33,570 active and contributing Iranian American business owners in the U.S., with a 21.5% business ownership rate. The study also found that the total net business income generated by Iranian Americans is $2,559,450,000.<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/nov/1171.html</ref>
Almost one in three Iranian American households have annual incomes of more than $100K (compared to one in five for the overall U.S. population).
<ref>http://paaia.org/galleries/new-gallery/Survey_of_Iranian_Americans_Final_Report_Dec_10%202008.pdf</ref>

According to a study carried out by the [[Massachusetts Institute of Technology]], [[List of contemporary Iranian scientists, scholars, and engineers|Iranian scientists and engineers]] in the United States own or control around $880 billion.<ref>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1239439901918627893&q=abbas+milani&pl=true</ref>

===Religion===
[[Image:IAmericanreligions.png|thumb|right]]
Two-fifths of Iranian Americans identify themselves as [[Muslims]], almost an equal percentage appear not to practice any particular religion, and the balance are roughly equally divided among [[Christians]], followers of [[Judaism]], [[Baha'i]]s and [[Zoroastrians]].<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

===Citizenship===
Nearly all Iranian-Americans are either [[U.S. citizen|citizen]]s (81%) or [[permanent residency|permanent resident]]s (15%) of the [[United States]] (2008 survey).<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

===Politics===
About one half of Iranian Americans surveyed identified themselves as registered Democrats, in contrast to one in eight as Republicans and one in four as independents (2008).<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

More than half of Iranian Americans cite domestic U.S. issues, including issues that are not unique to Iranian Americans, as the most important to them. In contrast, one quarter of Iranian Americans cite foreign policy issues involving [[U.S.-Iran relations]] and less than one in ten cite the internal affairs of Iran as being of greatest importance to them.<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

From 1980 to 2004, more than one out of every four Iranian immigrants was a refugee or asylee.<ref>http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=404</ref> Almost three-quarters of Iranian Americans believe the promotion of [[human rights]] and [[democracy]] in Iran is the most important issue relating to U.S.-Iran relations. About the same percentage, however, believe diplomacy is the foreign policy approach towards Iran that would be in the best interest of the United States. 84% support establishing U.S. Interest Section in Iran.<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

==Notable individuals==
{{Seealso|List of Iranian Americans}}
Iranian-Americans are among the most educated and successful communities in the U.S., according to a report by [http://isg-mit.org/research/?id=279&cat=iranian-american&stat=full Iranian Studies group at MIT]. Iranian-Americans have founded and/or participated in senior leadership positions of many major US companies, including many Fortune 500 companies such as [[GE]], [[Intel]], [[Verizon]], [[Motorola]], Google, and [[AT&T]].
The founder/[[CEO]] of [[eBay]] ([[Pierre Omidyar]]) is a Persian, as well as the founder of [[Bratz]] ([[Isaac Larian]]).
In September 2006, [[Anousheh Ansari]], co-founder of the [[Ansari X Prize]] became the first female tourist in space. Ansari is also the co-founder and former CEO of [[Prodea Systems]] Inc. and Telecom Technologies, Inc.
In July 18th 2007 [[Farhad Rostampour]] became the first Iranian-born pilot to complete a record setting flight around the world. His flight was known as [[FreedomFlight]]. [[Goli Ameri]] was recently confirmed as U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Educational and Cultural Affairs, making her the highest-ranking Iranian-American public official in the United States.

Many Iranian Americans are active philanthropists and leaders in improving their community. In 2006, [[The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center]] was the recipient of a 10 million dollar donation from an Iranian American couple based in [[Houston, Texas]].<ref>[http://www.payvand.com/news/07/dec/1013.html Profile of an Iranian-American philanthropist: Ali Saberioon]</ref><ref>[http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/newsroom/display.cfm?id=1B4B1107-CA18-4F96- Title_ - M. D. Anderson Cancer Center]</ref>[[Image:Houston Iranians.JPG|thumb|A street in Houston, Texas]] The [[University of Southern California]] was also the recipient of a 17 million dollar gift from an Iranian-American<ref>[http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/14601.html Alum Gives $17M to USC Viterbi Dept]</ref>, as was [[San Francisco State University]] which also received a 10 million dollar gift from an Iranian-American couple.<ref>[http://www.sfsu.edu/~news/2005/summer/69.htm SF State News]</ref>, and Chicago's Swedish Covenant Hospital ($4 million)<ref>[http://www.iranian.com/PhotoDay/2007/April/yelda.html Iranian.com | Archive Pages]</ref>, [[Portland State University]] ($8 million)<ref>[http://www.pdx.edu/cecs/visionary_alumnus.html Portland State Maseeh College of Engineering & Computer Science | Visionary Alumnus]</ref>, and [[UC Irvine]] ($30 million)<ref>[http://www.merage.uci.edu/CalendarAndNews/PressReleases/PressReleases.aspx?ReleaseID=144 University of California, Irvine | The Paul Merage School of Business]</ref><ref>[http://www.iranian.com/PhotoDay/2005/April/pm.html Iranian.com | Archive Pages]</ref>, among others.
Well-known Americans of Iranian descent include [[Christiane Amanpour]], [[Bijan Pakzad]], [[Sarah Shahi]], [[Firouz Naderi]], [[Shohreh Aghdashloo]], [[Maz Jobrani]], [[Ali Javan]], [[Sina Tamaddon]], [[Omid Kordestani]], [[Roya Hakakian]], [[Rudi Bakhtiar]], and [[Catherine Bell]]<ref>[http://imdb.com/name/nm0004738/bio Catherine Bell - Biography]</ref><ref>[http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/bio/catherine_bell.shtml Catherine Bell Biography, Bio, Profile, pictures, photos from Netglimse.com]</ref>.
A notable Iranian-American who works in sport is [[WWE]] wrestler [[Shawn Daivari]]. [[Sobhan Tadjalli]] is also a notable Iranian American Professional Soccer Player, who has had stints with the Philadelphia Kixx, Delaware Dynasty, and TSV 1860 Munich.
In film there are several Iranian American actors and film crew, including the [[Academy-Award]] nominee [[Shohreh Aghdashloo]], actor [[Adrian Pasdar]], producer [[Bob Yari]], and [[Farhad Safinia]], co-writer of [[Mel Gibson]]'s [[Apocalypto]],[[Daryush Shokof]](cult) Artist-writer-Filmmaker [[Seven Servants]] with [[Anthony Quinn]] and the Iranian American Film Director and writer, [http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1800518525/photo/136849 Kamshad Kooshan] whose theatrically released feature film "[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Surviving_Paradise&action=edit&redlink=1 Surviving Paradise]" starring Oscar Nominated [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shohreh_Aghdashloo Shohreh Aghdashloo], became the [http://survivingparadise.net/Site/SurvivingParadise_Main.html first Iranian-American film distributed in the United States].

The son of the last [[Shah]] of Iran, [[Reza Pahlavi]], lives in the USA, as well as several high ranking officials in the Shah's administration like [[Hushang Ansary]] and [[Jamshid Amouzegar]].

==See also==
{{portal|Iran|Flag of Iran.svg|48}}
*[[Iranian diaspora]]
*[[Iran-United States relations]]
*[[American Iranian Council]]
*[[List of Iranian Americans]]
*[[National Iranian American Council]]
*[[Little Persia, Los Angeles, California]]
*[[Persian palace]]
*[[Tehrangeles]]

==External links==
*[http://www.niacouncil.org/docs/irancensus.pdf] Iran Census Report (2003): Strength in Numbers - The Relative Concentration of Iranian Americans Across the United States
*[http://www.iranian.com/Diaspora/2004/January/USA/index.html Report into the life of Iranian-Americans from Iranian.com]
*[http://www.iaba.us/ Iranian American Bar Association]
*[http://www.american-iranian.org/ American Iranian Council Promoting Iranian American Participation in Civic Life]
*[http://www.niacouncil.org/ National Iranian American Council Promoting Iranian American Participation in American Civic Life]
*[http://isg-mit.org/research/?id=279&cat=iranian-american&stat=full Fact-sheet on the Iranian-American Community (ISG MIT)]
*[http://www.persiancity.com/ Persiancity.com - Comprehensive Iranian-owned business directory (US & Worldwide)]
*[http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=404 Migration Information Source] -Spotlight on the Iranian Foreign Born
*[http://www.parstimes.com/iranian_american.html Iranian-American Organizations]
*[http://www.iranianamericanpac.org/ Iranian American Political Action Committee]
*[http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/07/silence-of-iranian-lambs.php The Silence of the Iranian Lambs], [[JURIST]]
*[http://www.iranianalliances.org Iranian Alliances Across Borders (IAAB)]
*[http://www.payvand.com/news/07/jun/1120.html Resolution Condemning Discrimination and Bigotry Against Iranian Americans Re-Introduced in the House]
*[http://www.allied-media.com/persian_american/index.html Persian-American Community Outreach]
*[http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/article/20070220persiancandidates.html Persian Jews politicking on Rodeo Drive]
*[http://www.nipoc.org Network of Iranian American Professionals of Orange County]
*[http://www.iranian.com/ Iranian.com, website for the expatriate Iranian community, mostly Iranian-Americans]
*[http://parstimes.com/iranian_american.html Pars Times:Iranian-American Organizations] Comprehensive List of Internet Resources
*[http://www.mideasti.org/middle-east-journal/volume-56/2/brain-drain-iran-united-states Middle East Journal]The Brain Drain from Iran to the United States by Akbar E. Torbat
*[http://www.daftar.org/far/default.asp Interest Section of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Washington D.C.] - Consular affairs

==References==
{{Reflist|2}}


{{Middle Eastern American}}


[[Category:Ethnic groups in the United States]]
[[Category:Iranian Americans]]
[[Category:Iranian emigrants]]

[[fa:ایرانیان آمریکا]]
[[fr:Irano-Américains]]

Iranian Americans

2009-04-08T12:54:32Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Religion */ adding graph

{{Infobox Ethnic group
|group = Iranian American
|image = <div style="margin-top:1px; margin-bottom:px;">[[Image:Farhad Rostampour.JPG|60px|Farhad Rostampour]] [[Image:AnoushehAnsari.jpg|60px|Anousheh Ansari]]
[[Image:Goli Ameri.JPG|60px|Goli Ameri]] [[Image:Adrian Pasdar.jpg|60px|Adrian Pasdar]]
[[Image:Catherine Bell 200101233d hr.jpg|60px|Catherine Bell]]
|caption = <div style="background-color:#fee8ab">
|poptime = '''378,000'''<ref name=UScensus>[http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/08s0051.pdf U.S. Census Bureau: Population by Selected Ancestry Group and Region: 2005]</ref>
to '''691,000'''<ref>[http://www.iranian.com/Diaspora/2004/January/USA/index.html Iranian.com | Archive Pages]</ref>
|popplace = [[Western United States|West]], [[Northeastern United States|Northeast]], [[Southern United States|South]]
|langs = [[American English]], [[Persian language|Persian]], and other [[languages of Iran]]
|rels = [[Islam]], [[Christianity]], [[Judaism]], [[Zoroastrianism]], and the [[Bahá'í Faith]]
}}

{{Iranian diaspora}}

'''Iranian Americans''' or '''Persian Americans''' are [[United States of America|American]] citizens of [[Iranian people|Iranian ethnicity]] or heritage. Iranian Americans are among the most highly educated people in the country.<ref name="migrationinformation.org">http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=404</ref><ref name="payvand.com">http://www.payvand.com/news/04/jan/1191.html</ref> Although Iranians have lived in the US in relatively small numbers since the 1930s, a large amount of Iranian-Americans are immigrants that have lived in the US since the [[Islamic Revolution]] of 1979.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?id=404 |title=Spotlight on the Iranian Foreign Born |author=Hakimzadeh, Shirin |coauthors=Dixon, David |year=2006 |month=June |work=US in Focus |publisher=Migration Information Source |quote=The Iranian foreign born are a relatively new population whose migration to the United States was concentrated around the years of the Islamic Revolution (1978-1979). }}</ref>

==History==

Iranian immigration to the United States has been continuous since the 1980s. Between 1980 and 1990, the number of foreign born from Iran in the United States increased by 74 percent.<ref>http://www.migrationinformation.org/USFocus/display.cfm?ID=404</ref> Today, the United States contains the highest number of [[Demography of Iran|Iranians]]. The Iranian-American community has produced a sizable number of [[List of Iranian Americans|individuals notable in many fields]], including [[medicine]], [[engineering]], and [[business]]. The community expanded predominantly in the early 1980s in the wake of the [[Iranian Revolution]] and the fall of the former regime. They have comparatively [[Liberalism|liberal]] political opinions and [[western world|westernized]] lifestyles due in part to [[American culture|American]] [[acculturation]]. Iranian-Americans thus are secular or otherwise, tend to practice moderate, less traditional forms of [[Shi'ism]] (some were forced into [[Right of asylum|asylum]] or [[exile]] for disagreements over religion with the [[Islamic Republic]] of Iran) as well as liberal [[Judaism]].

Many Iranian Americans are also members of the [[Iranian Azeris|Azeri]], [[Armenian Iranians|Armenian]], [[Kurdish people|Kurdish]], [[Iranian Arabs|Arab]], [[Assyrian people|Assyrian]], or other ethnic groups, reflecting the diversity of Iran.

Before the [[Islamic revolution]]," [[American universities]] were very popular in Iran for their quality of education, and this was a major force in drawing a large number of Iranian students to the [[United States]]. In the 1977/78 academic year, there were about 100,000 Iranian students abroad of whom 36,220 were enrolled in the US institutes of higher learning; the rest were mainly in the [[United Kingdom]], [[West Germany]], [[France]], [[Austria]], and [[Italy]]. In the 1978/79 academic year, just on the verge of the revolution, the number of Iranian students enrolled in the US was 45,340, and in 1979/80 reached its peak of 51,310. Iran had the highest number of students in the US compared to any other country. From a total foreign student enrollment in the United States of 263,938 in the 1978/79 academic year, 17% were from Iran. Nigeria ranked second with 16,340 students or 6% of the enrollments. The number of students from other oil exporting countries was also high in that period due to the rapid increase of petroleum prices in the 1970s. The increase in [[oil prices]] brought higher oil revenues to the [[Iranian economy]], and as a result, part of it was invested in students' education abroad, either directly by government financial aid" and/or indirectly by the students' families. This investment paid off and resulted in an excellent cohort of Western-educated professionals. Because Iran had a shortage of high-level manpower at that time, a number of students were returning home after graduation to work. Some had to return because they had received financial aid in exchange for obligation to serve the government or industry upon graduation. Those who were politically dissatisfied with the former regime remained abroad. After the revolution, some of them returned to [[Iran]] to serve the country, but were gradually purged out of the newly established Islamic Republic. Some of the students who graduated abroad after the revolution also did not return because of the ruling clergy's repression in Iran. As a result, the educated elite who left Iran and the new graduates in the U.S. who chose not to return home created a large pool of highly educated and skilled Iranian professionals in the [[United States]]."<ref>Torbat, Akbar E (Spring 2002). "The brain drain from Iran to the United States". Middle East Journal 56 (2): 272–295.</ref>

'''Iranian American Physicians'''

"The earliest Iranian professionals in the US before the revolution were the physicians. They were mostly young temporary trainees who were working as medical interns or residents. Some could establish themselves to continue to practice beyond the residency stage. Their motives to stay in the US were more for professional, social and political reasons than for economic incentives. The total number of Iranian physicians in the US before the revolution grew to 2,306 in 1978. The physicians who migrated to the US after the revolution were mostly experienced and came with their families for a permanent stay. At present, there are about 5,000 [[Iranian physicians]] working in the United States who have their own practice and/or work in medical institutions. Based on a count in 2001, about 4,000 of them obtained their primary medical [[education in Iran]], and have gone through advanced training in the US. There are also about of a 3,000 new generation of Iranian physicians who have received their entire training in some aspects of the field in the US. This increases the total number of Iranian medical doctors in the US to about 8,000."<ref>Torbat, Akbar E (Spring 2002). "The brain drain from Iran to the United States". Middle East Journal 56 (2): 272–295.</ref>

'''Iranian American Professors'''

"Another major group of highly trained Iranian professionals in the US are university professors. Based on a report that was published by the [[National Science Foundation]] in 1998, 1,369 Iranian born professors were teaching engineering and science on a full-time basis in the US. The total number of Iranian professors in the US is substantially higher if the Iranians who teach in other fields and part-time lecturers are added. In 2001, it was estimated that the total number of Iranian professors who teach and research in higher education institutions in the United States was about 4,000."<ref>Torbat, Akbar E (Spring 2002). "The brain drain from Iran to the United States". Middle East Journal 56: 272–295</ref>

==Demography==
===US Census===

Large concentrations of Iranian Americans (also known as ''Persian Americans'') live in the state of [[California]], most of them live in [[Southern California]] particularly around [[Los Angeles]], [[Orange County, California|Orange County]] and La Jolla ([[San Diego]]). Other Iranian-American communities in California include the [[San Francisco Bay Area]], [[Sacramento Valley]], [[San Joaquin Valley]], [[Imperial Valley (California)|Imperial Valley]] and the [[Coachella Valley]]. For this reason, the L.A area with its Iranian American residents is sometimes referred to as "[[Tehrangeles]]" or "Irangeles" among Iranian Americans, in allusion to Iran and its capital, [[Tehran]], which is also a [[sister city]] of Los Angeles.<ref>{{cite news|title=Iranians at odds over talks with 'the Great Satan'|publisher=[[The Sunday Telegraph]]|date=04-06-2006|url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/04/wiran04.xml}}</ref>

Iranian-Americans are far more numerous in the United States than census data indicate, according to research by the Iranian Studies Group, an independent academic organization, at [[Massachusetts Institute of Technology]] (MIT). The group estimates that the actual number of Iranian-Americans may top 691,000 -- more than twice the figure of 338,000 cited in the 2000 [[U.S. census]].<ref name="migrationinformation.org"/>

===Concentrations===
Outside of California, there are also large concentrations in [[Washington DC]] (mostly in [[Northern Virginia]] and [[Montgomery County, Maryland]]), [[Chicago]], [[Atlanta]], [[Las Vegas, Nevada|Las Vegas]], [[New York City]] (and [[Great Neck|Great Neck, NY]]), [[Phoenix, Arizona|Phoenix]], and around [[Dallas]] and [[Houston]], [[Texas]], and a sizable Iranian American community developed in [[Oklahoma]] since the 1970s and 1980's (mostly in the cities of [[Tulsa]] and [[Oklahoma City]]) {{Fact|date=February 2007}}. An [[NPR]] report recently put the Iranian population of [[Beverly Hills]] as high as 20% of the total population. Beverly Hills elected its first Iranian-born [[Mayor]], [[Jimmy Delshad|Jamshid Delshad]], in 2007.<ref>[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5459468 NPR: Living in Tehrangeles: L.A.'s Iranian Community]</ref><ref>[http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-03-14-beverly-hills-mayor_N.htm?csp=34 Beverly Hills will have first Iranian-born mayor in USA - USATODAY.com]</ref>
Iranian communities in the US also have varying religious populations among each city.

===Education===
The majority of the Iranian born had a bachelor's degree or higher. According to [[Census 2000]], 50.9 percent of Iranian immigrants have attained a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to 24.0 percent among the total foreign-born population.<ref name="migrationinformation.org"/> According to the latest census data available, more than one in four Iranian-Americans holds a master's or doctoral degree, the highest rate among 67 ethnic groups studied.<ref name="payvand.com"/>

===Contribution to the economy===
The [[Small Business Administration]] (SBA) recently conducted a study that found Iranian immigrants among the top 20 immigrant groups with the highest rate of business ownership, contributing substantially to the U.S. economy. According to the report, there are 33,570 active and contributing Iranian American business owners in the U.S., with a 21.5% business ownership rate. The study also found that the total net business income generated by Iranian Americans is $2,559,450,000.<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/nov/1171.html</ref>
Almost one in three Iranian American households have annual incomes of more than $100K (compared to one in five for the overall U.S. population).
<ref>http://paaia.org/galleries/new-gallery/Survey_of_Iranian_Americans_Final_Report_Dec_10%202008.pdf</ref>

According to a study carried out by the [[Massachusetts Institute of Technology]], [[List of contemporary Iranian scientists, scholars, and engineers|Iranian scientists and engineers]] in the United States own or control around $880 billion.<ref>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1239439901918627893&q=abbas+milani&pl=true</ref>

===Religion===
[[Image:IAmericanreligions.png|130px|right]]
Two-fifths of Iranian Americans identify themselves as [[Muslims]], almost an equal percentage appear not to practice any particular religion, and the balance are roughly equally divided among [[Christians]], followers of [[Judaism]], [[Baha'i]]s and [[Zoroastrians]].<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

===Citizenship===
Nearly all Iranian-Americans are either [[U.S. citizen|citizen]]s (81%) or [[permanent residency|permanent resident]]s (15%) of the [[United States]] (2008 survey).<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

===Politics===
About one half of Iranian Americans surveyed identified themselves as registered Democrats, in contrast to one in eight as Republicans and one in four as independents (2008).<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

More than half of Iranian Americans cite domestic U.S. issues, including issues that are not unique to Iranian Americans, as the most important to them. In contrast, one quarter of Iranian Americans cite foreign policy issues involving [[U.S.-Iran relations]] and less than one in ten cite the internal affairs of Iran as being of greatest importance to them.<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

From 1980 to 2004, more than one out of every four Iranian immigrants was a refugee or asylee.<ref>http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=404</ref> Almost three-quarters of Iranian Americans believe the promotion of [[human rights]] and [[democracy]] in Iran is the most important issue relating to U.S.-Iran relations. About the same percentage, however, believe diplomacy is the foreign policy approach towards Iran that would be in the best interest of the United States. 84% support establishing U.S. Interest Section in Iran.<ref>http://www.payvand.com/news/08/dec/1117.html</ref>

==Notable individuals==
{{Seealso|List of Iranian Americans}}
Iranian-Americans are among the most educated and successful communities in the U.S., according to a report by [http://isg-mit.org/research/?id=279&cat=iranian-american&stat=full Iranian Studies group at MIT]. Iranian-Americans have founded and/or participated in senior leadership positions of many major US companies, including many Fortune 500 companies such as [[GE]], [[Intel]], [[Verizon]], [[Motorola]], Google, and [[AT&T]].
The founder/[[CEO]] of [[eBay]] ([[Pierre Omidyar]]) is a Persian, as well as the founder of [[Bratz]] ([[Isaac Larian]]).
In September 2006, [[Anousheh Ansari]], co-founder of the [[Ansari X Prize]] became the first female tourist in space. Ansari is also the co-founder and former CEO of [[Prodea Systems]] Inc. and Telecom Technologies, Inc.
In July 18th 2007 [[Farhad Rostampour]] became the first Iranian-born pilot to complete a record setting flight around the world. His flight was known as [[FreedomFlight]]. [[Goli Ameri]] was recently confirmed as U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Educational and Cultural Affairs, making her the highest-ranking Iranian-American public official in the United States.

Many Iranian Americans are active philanthropists and leaders in improving their community. In 2006, [[The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center]] was the recipient of a 10 million dollar donation from an Iranian American couple based in [[Houston, Texas]].<ref>[http://www.payvand.com/news/07/dec/1013.html Profile of an Iranian-American philanthropist: Ali Saberioon]</ref><ref>[http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/newsroom/display.cfm?id=1B4B1107-CA18-4F96- Title_ - M. D. Anderson Cancer Center]</ref>[[Image:Houston Iranians.JPG|thumb|A street in Houston, Texas]] The [[University of Southern California]] was also the recipient of a 17 million dollar gift from an Iranian-American<ref>[http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/14601.html Alum Gives $17M to USC Viterbi Dept]</ref>, as was [[San Francisco State University]] which also received a 10 million dollar gift from an Iranian-American couple.<ref>[http://www.sfsu.edu/~news/2005/summer/69.htm SF State News]</ref>, and Chicago's Swedish Covenant Hospital ($4 million)<ref>[http://www.iranian.com/PhotoDay/2007/April/yelda.html Iranian.com | Archive Pages]</ref>, [[Portland State University]] ($8 million)<ref>[http://www.pdx.edu/cecs/visionary_alumnus.html Portland State Maseeh College of Engineering & Computer Science | Visionary Alumnus]</ref>, and [[UC Irvine]] ($30 million)<ref>[http://www.merage.uci.edu/CalendarAndNews/PressReleases/PressReleases.aspx?ReleaseID=144 University of California, Irvine | The Paul Merage School of Business]</ref><ref>[http://www.iranian.com/PhotoDay/2005/April/pm.html Iranian.com | Archive Pages]</ref>, among others.
Well-known Americans of Iranian descent include [[Christiane Amanpour]], [[Bijan Pakzad]], [[Sarah Shahi]], [[Firouz Naderi]], [[Shohreh Aghdashloo]], [[Maz Jobrani]], [[Ali Javan]], [[Sina Tamaddon]], [[Omid Kordestani]], [[Roya Hakakian]], [[Rudi Bakhtiar]], and [[Catherine Bell]]<ref>[http://imdb.com/name/nm0004738/bio Catherine Bell - Biography]</ref><ref>[http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/bio/catherine_bell.shtml Catherine Bell Biography, Bio, Profile, pictures, photos from Netglimse.com]</ref>.
A notable Iranian-American who works in sport is [[WWE]] wrestler [[Shawn Daivari]]. [[Sobhan Tadjalli]] is also a notable Iranian American Professional Soccer Player, who has had stints with the Philadelphia Kixx, Delaware Dynasty, and TSV 1860 Munich.
In film there are several Iranian American actors and film crew, including the [[Academy-Award]] nominee [[Shohreh Aghdashloo]], actor [[Adrian Pasdar]], producer [[Bob Yari]], and [[Farhad Safinia]], co-writer of [[Mel Gibson]]'s [[Apocalypto]],[[Daryush Shokof]](cult) Artist-writer-Filmmaker [[Seven Servants]] with [[Anthony Quinn]] and the Iranian American Film Director and writer, [http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1800518525/photo/136849 Kamshad Kooshan] whose theatrically released feature film "[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Surviving_Paradise&action=edit&redlink=1 Surviving Paradise]" starring Oscar Nominated [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shohreh_Aghdashloo Shohreh Aghdashloo], became the [http://survivingparadise.net/Site/SurvivingParadise_Main.html first Iranian-American film distributed in the United States].

The son of the last [[Shah]] of Iran, [[Reza Pahlavi]], lives in the USA, as well as several high ranking officials in the Shah's administration like [[Hushang Ansary]] and [[Jamshid Amouzegar]].

==See also==
{{portal|Iran|Flag of Iran.svg|48}}
*[[Iranian diaspora]]
*[[Iran-United States relations]]
*[[American Iranian Council]]
*[[List of Iranian Americans]]
*[[National Iranian American Council]]
*[[Little Persia, Los Angeles, California]]
*[[Persian palace]]
*[[Tehrangeles]]

==External links==
*[http://www.niacouncil.org/docs/irancensus.pdf] Iran Census Report (2003): Strength in Numbers - The Relative Concentration of Iranian Americans Across the United States
*[http://www.iranian.com/Diaspora/2004/January/USA/index.html Report into the life of Iranian-Americans from Iranian.com]
*[http://www.iaba.us/ Iranian American Bar Association]
*[http://www.american-iranian.org/ American Iranian Council Promoting Iranian American Participation in Civic Life]
*[http://www.niacouncil.org/ National Iranian American Council Promoting Iranian American Participation in American Civic Life]
*[http://isg-mit.org/research/?id=279&cat=iranian-american&stat=full Fact-sheet on the Iranian-American Community (ISG MIT)]
*[http://www.persiancity.com/ Persiancity.com - Comprehensive Iranian-owned business directory (US & Worldwide)]
*[http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?ID=404 Migration Information Source] -Spotlight on the Iranian Foreign Born
*[http://www.parstimes.com/iranian_american.html Iranian-American Organizations]
*[http://www.iranianamericanpac.org/ Iranian American Political Action Committee]
*[http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/07/silence-of-iranian-lambs.php The Silence of the Iranian Lambs], [[JURIST]]
*[http://www.iranianalliances.org Iranian Alliances Across Borders (IAAB)]
*[http://www.payvand.com/news/07/jun/1120.html Resolution Condemning Discrimination and Bigotry Against Iranian Americans Re-Introduced in the House]
*[http://www.allied-media.com/persian_american/index.html Persian-American Community Outreach]
*[http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/article/20070220persiancandidates.html Persian Jews politicking on Rodeo Drive]
*[http://www.nipoc.org Network of Iranian American Professionals of Orange County]
*[http://www.iranian.com/ Iranian.com, website for the expatriate Iranian community, mostly Iranian-Americans]
*[http://parstimes.com/iranian_american.html Pars Times:Iranian-American Organizations] Comprehensive List of Internet Resources
*[http://www.mideasti.org/middle-east-journal/volume-56/2/brain-drain-iran-united-states Middle East Journal]The Brain Drain from Iran to the United States by Akbar E. Torbat
*[http://www.daftar.org/far/default.asp Interest Section of the Islamic Republic of Iran in Washington D.C.] - Consular affairs

==References==
{{Reflist|2}}


{{Middle Eastern American}}


[[Category:Ethnic groups in the United States]]
[[Category:Iranian Americans]]
[[Category:Iranian emigrants]]

[[fa:ایرانیان آمریکا]]
[[fr:Irano-Américains]]

Vaporizer (inhalation device)

2009-04-06T00:24:38Z

Parthian Scribe: oh come on

{{distinguish|humidifier}}
{{for|the device used in surgery|anaesthetic vaporiser}}
{{Citations missing|date=March 2009}}

[[Image:Volcano Vaporizer.jpg|thumb|right|A [[Volcano Vaporizer|Volcano]] forced-air Vaporizer]]
A '''vaporizer''' (or '''vapouriser''') is a device used to [[sublimate]] the active ingredients of [[plant]] material, commonly [[cannabis (drug)|cannabis]], [[tobacco]], or any of many other herbs or blends (phyto-inhalation; see also: [[aromatherapy]]). [[Vaporization]] is an alternative to [[smoking]]. Rather than [[Combustion|burning]] the herb, which produces irritating, [[Toxicity|toxic]], and [[carcinogen]]ic by-products, a vaporizer heats the material in a partial vacuum so that the active compounds contained in the plant boil off into a [[vapor]]. No combustion occurs, so no smoke or taste of smoke is evident. The vapor ideally contains virtually zero particulate matter or [[tar (tobacco residue)|tar]], and significantly lower concentrations of noxious gases such as [[carbon monoxide]]. The vapor is then inhaled directly through a hose or pipe for highest activity, or stored for subsequent inhalations in a container such as a bag or jar. With little to no smoke produced, cooler temperatures, and less material required to achieve a given level of effect, the irritating/harmful effects of smoking are greatly reduced or eliminated,<ref>
{{cite web
|url=http://harmreductionjournal.com/content/4/1/11
|title=Harm Reduction Journal | Full text | Decreased respiratory symptoms in cannabis users who vaporize
|publisher=harmreductionjournal.com
|accessdate=2008-07-28
|last=
|first=
}}
</ref><ref>
{{cite web
|url=http://www.aids.org/atn/a-327-02.html
|title=Vaporizers for Medical Marijuana
|publisher=www.aids.org
|accessdate=2008-07-28
|last=
|first=
}}
</ref><ref>
{{cite web
|url=http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=WLQV1VCMKJA38LX905QKR347R75K8LH6&ID=1467
|title=The Haworth Press Online Catalog: Article Abstract
|publisher=www.haworthpress.com
|accessdate=2008-07-28
|last=
|first=
}}
</ref><ref>
{{cite web
|url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17429350
|title=Vaporization as a smokeless cannabis delivery syst...[Clin Pharmacol Ther. 2007] - PubMed Result
|publisher=www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
|accessdate=2008-07-28
|last=
|first=
}}
</ref><ref>
{{cite web
|url=http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17821306
|title=Evaluation of a vaporizing device (Volcano) for the pulmonary administration of tetrahydrocannabinol
|publisher=cat.inist.fr
|accessdate=2008-07-28
|last=
|first=
}}
</ref> along with [[Passive smoking|second hand smoke]], by using a vaporizer. This makes vaporizers useful in places where there are [[List of smoking bans|public bans on smoking]] and under circumstances in which a more medically justifiable delivery medium is preferred.

==Medical implications==

Several scientific studies have been done showing that vaporization is a means of cannabis delivery less injurious to health than smoking. When using high-end vaporizers along with high grade cannabis (containing elevated levels of [[THC]]), almost all undesired compounds are found to be eliminated (depending on the precise heat of the mechanism along with the method of inhalation), in a manner consistent enough for clinical trials.{{Fact|date=March 2008}}
In comparison to other THC delivery methods such as ingestion, vaporization offers the advantages of rapid onset of pharmacological effect, direct delivery into the bloodstream (via the lungs), and more precise [[titration]] such that the desired level is reached and not exceeded, enabling consistent and appropriate dosage.

Vaporizers are available in many varieties and price ranges.

Precise vaporizers use an electric heating element, often featuring [[thermostat]]ic temperature control. High-end models may cost several hundred U.S. dollars.

Broadly, vaporizers may be classified by how they heat the substance:
* By [[thermal conduction]]
* By [[convection]]
* By [[thermal radiation]]

In '''conduction''' heating, the substance is placed on a metal plate that is then heated to release the active constituents. Conduction vaporizers were the first type to appear on the market, and are still in production.

In '''convection''' heating, the substance itself never touches a heating element. Instead, hot air passes through it, heating it rapidly, and allowing the release of the active constituents. This method of heating releases more active constituents than conduction heating.{{Fact|date=February 2007}}
* Many convection vaporizers use a tube (called a "whip") through which the user inhales the vapors. Some vaporizers have a bag or balloon attachment; vapor is blown into the bag, and the user detaches the bag and inhales the contents. Attachments can be placed between the vaporizer or bag and the user's mouth to cool the vapor with water or ice.
* Convection vaporizers are either forced air types which actively blow air through the heating element and herbs, or passive types, where the user inhales the air without help of a fan or pump. Most vaporizers today use the convection principle, including heat guns, "wood box" types, and nearly every higher end vaporizer on the market today.

In '''radiation''' heating, the substance is subjected to bright light. The substance absorbs radiant energy and its temperature rises. Radiation vaporizers are rare, but capable of duplicating the performance of convection vaporizers. A pipe and a magnifying glass on a bright, sunny day can, with care and practice, act as an adequate radiation vaporizer.

[[Image:Vaporizer 01.JPG|thumb|right|A conduction-style vaporizer]]

==Vapor quality==
Few vaporizer studies/reviews have really addressed the quality of the vapor extracted and delivered. Most studies/reviews have tended to focus on the mode of usage of the vaporizers and not the quality of the vapor extracted and delivered. When one considers that there are at least 60 pharmacologically-active compounds in cannabis and that the aromatic terpenoids begin to vaporize at 126 °C, but the more bio-active [[Cannabidiol|cannabidiol (CBD)]], [[Cannabinol|Cannabinol (CBN)]], and [[THC|delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)]] do not vaporize until near their respective [[flash point]]s: CBD 206.3 °C<ref>http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.2446.html</ref>, CBN 212.7 °C<ref>http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.2447.html</ref>, THC 149.3 °C)<ref>http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.15266.html</ref> then it becomes apparent that the only way to get a full spectrum vapor inhalation is to extract and deliver rapidly from a small sample at a time. Because most commercial vaporizers are slow in extraction and delivery, the vapor inhaled is first aromatic, but only minimally active; and then as the apparent temperature rises, the vapor becomes increasingly bio-active, but minimally aromatic as most of the aromatics already released.

Most vaporizers deliver dry, warm vapor that can irritate the throat and upper tracheo bronchial tree. It must be remembered that at least in terms of Cannabis, heat is the primary culprit leading to damage of the tracheo-bronchial tree whether smoking or vaporizing. Cannabis smoke contains tars and noxious gases known to be harmful not present in accurately extracted vapor; however, THC is a powerful [[expectorant]] and will cause the tars consumed to be subsequently coughed up (unlike [[nicotine]] which does not have a medicinal expectorant quality). Vaporizers or vaporization systems that feature rapid extraction and delivery combined with water or ice cooling and conditioning of the vapor deliver the best of all: clean, concentrated, cool, and moisturized vapor for maximized bio-activity and minimized impact.

==Health and medical use==

[[File:White widow.jpg|thumb|right|350px|Cannabis female flowers closeup with [[trichomes]], white. These plant parts contain the highest concentration of medicinal compounds. After vaporization, the trichomes are flattened, having released their contents as vapor.]]

Regardless of the benefits of [[medical cannabis]], the widely perceived health risks of smoking as a route of administration have been viewed as a major obstacle for the legal approval of cannabis for medical uses, though some studies indicate that the expectorant activity of THC may help the lungs remove much of the inhaled tar through coughing.<ref>
{{cite web
|url=http://www.torontohemp.com/tccinfo.htm
|title=Toronto Hemp Company (THC) - Information - TCC's Cannabis User's Guide - Hemp Marijuana Cannabis Store/Shop and Resource Centre / Center
|publisher=www.torontohemp.com
|accessdate=2008-07-07
|last=
|first=
}}
</ref> In response to the concerns, several studies have aimed to establish whether or not vaporizers could offer a clinically reliable and safe route of administration for cannabis. Though vaporizers show great variations in performance, such studies have consistently found vaporization superior to smoking and with best case (high-end vaporizers used with potent cannabis) results showing an elimination of undesired compounds suitable for clinical trials. {{Fact|date=July 2007}}
In comparison to other routes of administering cannabis such as eating, vaporization offers the advantages of inhalation - immediate delivery into the bloodstream, rapid onset of effect, and more precise [[titration]],{{Fact|date=September 2008}} the ability to more accurately control the dosage to produce a desired effect.

==Scientific studies==

All Studies have found the release of harmful constituents dramatically reduced<ref name="Gieringer 2004">''Cannabis Vaporizer Combines Efficient Delivery of THC with Effective Suppression of Pyrolytic Compounds'' By D. Gieringer et.al. Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics, Vol. 4(1) 2004, [http://www.maps.org/mmj/Gieringer-vaporizer.pdf] </ref> or completely eliminated.<ref name="Hazekamp 2006">''Evaluation of a Vaporizing Device (Volcano Vaporizer) for the Pulmonary Administration of Tetrahydrocannabinol''. By A. HAZEKAMP, R. RUHAAK, et.al. JOURNAL OF PHARMACEUTICAL SCIENCES, VOL. 95, NO. 6, JUNE 2006 [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16637053&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum abstract]</ref> Substantial reductions were also found for the M1-volatizer.<ref name="Gieringer 2001">''Cannabis Vaporization: A Promising Strategy for Smoke Harm Reduction''. By D. Gieringer, published in Journal of Cannabis Therapeutics Vol. 1#3-4: 153-70 (2001) [http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06359mj1.html Summary]. </ref> However, a 1996 study<ref name="Gieringer 1996">''Marijuana Water Pipe and Vaporizer Study''. By D. Gieringer. Newsletter of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
MAPS - Volume 6 Number 3 Summer 1996 [http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06359mj1.html] </ref> including two simple vaporizers still found ten times more tar in the vapor than THC, although this was nevertheless up to a 30% improvement compared to the best alternative smoking method.

The most recent study, published in the Journal of Psychopharmacology in May 2008,<ref name="Journal of Psychopharmacology">''Effect of intrapulmonary tetrahydrocannabinol administration in humans'' By L Zuurman. Journal of Psychopharmacology 2008, [http://jop.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/0269881108089581v1]</ref> investigated the acceptability and usefulness of intrapulmonary THC administration using a [[Volcano Vaporizer]] and pure THC instead of cannabis. Rising doses of THC (2, 4, 6 and 8 mg) were administered with 90 minutes intervals to twelve healthy males. Very low between-subject variability was observed in THC plasma concentrations, characterising the vaporizer as a suitable method for the administration of THC.

In 2007, a study by [[University of California, San Francisco]] published in the Official Journal of the American Academy of Neurology<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070515151145.htm|title=Marijuana Vaporizer Provides Same Level Of THC, Fewer Toxins, Study Shows|publisher=Official Journal of the American Academy of Neurology (summarized by [[Science Daily]])|date=2007-05-16|accessdate=2007-06-06}}</ref> examined the effectiveness of a vaporizer that heats cannabis to a temperature between 180°C (356°F) and 200°C (392°F) degrees and found:

{{Cquote|Using [[carbon monoxide|CO]] as an indicator, there was virtually no exposure to harmful combustion products using the vaporizing device. Since it replicates smoking's efficiency at producing the desired THC effect using smaller amounts of the active ingredient as opposed to pill forms, this device has great potential for improving the therapeutic utility of THC.}}

In 2006, a study performed by researchers at [[Leiden University]], tested a vaporizer with preparations of pure THC and found that:<ref name="Hazekamp 2006"/>

{{Cquote|Our results show that a safe and effective [[cannabinoid]] delivery system seems to be available to patients. The final pulmonal uptake of THC is comparable to the smoking of cannabis, while avoiding the respiratory disadvantages of smoking.}}

When using plant material (crude flower tops), besides THC, several other cannabinoids as well as a range of other plant components including [[Terpene|terpenoids]] were detected in the plant material. However, using pure THC in the Volcano vaporizer, no degradation products ([[delta-8-THC]] (D8-THC), [[cannabinol]] (CBN), or unknown compounds) were detected by [[High performance liquid chromatography|HPLC]] analysis. Also, a substantially larger fraction of the THC was delivered to the vapor by using pure THC.

Analysis of the vapor from the vaporizer found that using multiple passes it delivered 36% - 61% of the THC in the sample.<ref name="Gieringer 2004" /> A more recent study using pure cannabinoid preparations achieved a maximum of 54%.<ref name="Hazekamp 2006"/>
For comparison, studies of cannabis cigarettes smoked via a smoking machine under varying conditions of puff duration and air speed found very similar efficiencies of 34% to
61%. Consequently, users can achieve the desired effect with a similar amount of material as when smoking.

In a 2001 study testing a device called the M1 Volatizer,<ref name="Gieringer 2001"/> the researchers found that "it is possible to vaporize medically active THC by heating marijuana to a temperature short of the point of combustion, thereby eliminating or substantially reducing harmful smoke toxins that are normally present in marijuana smoke." The M1 Volatizer, produced THC at a temperature of 185°C (365°F), while eliminating three measured combustion products, [[benzene]], [[toluene]] and [[naphthalene]]. [[Carbon monoxide]] and smoke [[tar]]s were also reduced, but not quantified.

These positive results are in contrast to [[MAPS]]/[[NORML]]'s previous studies into vaporizers which found less encouraging results, leading one to the conclusion that the effectiveness of vaporization varies greatly from vaporizer to vaporizer. See [[Vaporizer#Factors affecting vaporizer output|Factors affecting vaporizer output]] for possible causes of variation.

A 1996 MAPS study<ref name="Gieringer 1996"/> tested two simple vaporizer models against water pipes and filtered and unfiltered cannabis cigarettes ([[joint (cannabis)|joint]]s). The smoke produced by each was analyzed for solid particulates (tars) and 3 major cannabinoids. The various smoking methods were then rated based on their cannabinoid-to-tar ratio. The two tested vaporizers performed up to 25% better than unfiltered cannabis cigarettes (second best) in terms of tar delivery. However, both vaporizers produced more than ten times more tars than cannabinoids, which may partly be attributable to the low potency (2.3%) of the [[NIDA]]-supplied cannabis used in the study. Surprisingly, the same study found that water pipes ([[bongs]]) and filtered cigarettes performed 30% ''worse'' than regular, unfiltered joints. The reason was that waterpipes and filters filter out psychoactive THC with the tars, thereby requiring users to smoke more to reach their desired effect. The study did not, however, rule out the possibility that waterpipes could have other benefits, such as filtering out harmful gases such as carbon monoxide.

These studies have not measured the presence of toxic gases, such as [[ammonia]], [[hydrogen cyanide]] and carbon monoxide, though previous studies have indicated unquantified decreases in carbon monoxide with vaporization.

Although vaporizers produce cleaner vapors than smoking, they do not completely eliminate respiratory irritation. A large puff of potent vaporized cannabis will often cause severe coughing. This is likely due to the THC itself, which is known to have a strong expectorant effect.

===Efficacy===

The wide range of results from tests of different vaporizers suggest that the choice of vaporizer is a major factor in determining extraction and delivery efficacy as well as the amount of harmful byproducts produced. In Cannabis and many other medicinal plants, the components responsible for the aromatic nature of the plant will often vaporize at a low-end temperature in the range of extraction temperature values for all the bioactive components. In Cannabis, the temperature range across which the actives will vaporize is at least 56°C (132°F) starting at around 127°C (260°F) where only aromatic compounds of minimal bioactivity will release and going all the way up to 200°C (392°F) with the higher end of this range representing where the cannabinoids of higher bioactivity appear to be released. It is believed{{Who|date=January 2009}} that both the total amount of actives delivered as well as the breadth of spectrum delivered per inhalation is critical in determining the value of the delivered dose and, in turn, systems that deliver the highest amount of actives and broadest spectrum of actives per inhalation are believed to be the most effective for medicinal applications: i.e. venturi enhanced extraction / convection based systems.

Proposed factors affecting output include:<ref name="Gieringer 2004"/><ref name="Hazekamp 2006"/>

*Temperature
*Specimen [[density]]
*Weight, content of water and [[essential oil]]s
*Consistency of material in the filling chamber
*Variety and potency of cannabis used
*Different preparations such as crude flower tops, [[hashish]], [[hash oil]], etc.
*Storage time of the vapor
*Proportion of THC exhaled (breathing technique)

Not all those have been scientifically tested. Research using the vaporizer found the delivery efficiency highest at around 226°C (439°F), falling to about half efficiency at 150°C (302°F) to 180°C (356°F) degrees depending on material.<ref name="Hazekamp 2006"/>
The purest preparations produced the highest efficiencies, about 54% for pure THC versus 29% for plant material (female flower tops) with 12% [[THCA]] content. Besides THC, several other cannabinoids as well as a range of other plant components including terpenoids were detected in the plant material. Using pure THC in the vaporizer, no degradation products (delta-8-THC (D8-THC), cannabinol (CBN), or unknown compounds were detected by [[HPLC]] analysis.<ref name="Hazekamp 2006" /> The longer vapor is stored, the more of the THC is lost as it condenses on the surface of the vaporizer or the balloon. This loss may be negligible over a few minutes but may exceed 50% after 90 minutes.<ref name="Hazekamp 2006"/> The Leiden Univsersity study<ref name="Hazekamp 2006"/> found that as much as 30%–40% of inhaled THC was not absorbed by the lungs and simply exhaled. However, they did not find large individual differences in the amounts exhaled.

==Byproducts of vaporized cannabis==
{{Unreferenced section|date=September 2008}}
[[Image:VaporizedCannabis.jpg|thumb|right|Cannabis after vaporization]]

Unlike the black ashes produced by burning plants, the byproducts of vaporization are usually brown. Cannabis [[trichomes]] containing very high concentrations of active compounds burst during vaporization and appear flattened afterwards under a microscope. The vaporized remains of cannabis may still contain THC or any number of the other 60 cannabinoids found in the plant. It is possible to extract these cannabinoids using a number of methods, including cooking, making a tincture, or revaporizing. It is also possible to smoke these remains and gain a possibly strong psychoactive effect, but the negative health effects typically leave this option as a last resort. The left-over cannabis after vaporization can be prepared using high proof ethyl alcohol (such as [[everclear]]) to create a potent [[tincture]], or [[Green Dragon (drink)|green dragon]].

==Use in the restaurant industry==
A bit of vapor is sometimes used by chefs as a method of applying controlled heat to herbs and spices to release flavors that are otherwise difficult to titrate or apply, or that might be spoiled by overheating during cooking.<ref name="caterer">[http://www.caterersearch.com/Articles/2007/08/22/315575/new-science-cooking-equipment.html Alinea restaurant uses Volcano as flavorizer]</ref><ref>[http://www.chow.com/stories/10417 Tools for creating aromatic flavors]</ref><ref>[http://www.rimag.com/article/CA6556364.html Volcano used to release nutmeg aroma]</ref> "Chicago's Achatz uses the aroma-filled bags as place-mats, punctured when plates are placed in front of the customer."<ref name="caterer"/>

== Table of vaporization temperatures ==

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
! Plant common name
! Scientific name
! Part utilized
! Temperature
|-
| Aloe Vera
| <center>[[Image:Aloe Vera.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Aloe Vera]]''</center>
| Gelatinous fluid from leaves
| 183°C (362°F)
|-
| Eucalyptus
| <center>[[Image:Koeh-147.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Eucalyptus globulus]]''</center>
| Leaves
| 130°C (266°F)
|-
| Hops
| <center>[[Image:Hopfen1.jpg|thumb|]]</center><center>''[[Humulus lupulus]]''</center>
| Cones
| 154°C (309°F)
|-
| Chamomile
| <center>[[Image:Chamomile@original size.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Chamomilla recutita]]''</center>
| Flowers
| 190°C (374°F)
|-
| Clove
| <center>[[Image:ClovesDried.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Syzygium aromaticum]]''</center>
| Dried flower buds
| 123°C (254°F)
|-
| Gingko
| <center>[[Image:Ginkgo biloba0.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Ginkgo Biloba]]''</center>
| Leaves, seeds
| 140°C(285°F)
|-
| Lavender
| <center>[[Image:Espliego 03 JMM.JPG|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Lavandula angustifolia]]''</center>
| Leaves
| 130°C (266°F)
|-
| Lemon balm
| <center>[[Image:Melissa officinalis01.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Melissa officinalis]]''</center>
| Leaves
| 142°C (288°F)
|-
| Sage
| <center>[[Image:Salvia officinalis0.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Salvia officinalis]]''</center>
| Leaves
| 190°C (374°F)
|-
| Thyme
| <center>[[Image:Thymus vulgaris.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Thymus vulgaris]]''</center>
| Herb
| 190°C (374°F)
|-
| Cannabis
| <center>[[Image:White widow.jpg|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Cannabis sativa]]''</center>
| Flowers
| 180-200°C (356-392°F)
|-
| Tobacco
| <center>[[Image:Tabak P9290021.JPG|thumb]]</center><center>''[[Nicotiana tabacum]]''</center>
| Leaf
| 140-200°C (284-392°F)<ref>
{{cite web
|url=http://www.californiachronicle.com/articles/63370
|title=California Chronicle | All about Vaporizer Gun and Pipes and Temperature
|publisher=www.californiachronicle.com
|accessdate=2008-07-28
|last=
|first=
}}
</ref>
|}

==See also==
*[[Aromatherapy]]
*[[Eagle Bill]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==


*[http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4948.html Two Medical Studies Find Vaporized Medical Marijuana is Safe and Effective]
*[http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizerstudy2.html NORML/MAPS Study Shows Vaporizer Can Drastically Reduce Toxins in Marijuana Smoke]
{{Cannabis resources}}

[[Category:Cannabis smoking]]
[[Category:Drug paraphernalia]]
[[Category:Tobacco]]

[[de:Vaporizer]]
[[es:Vaporizador (extractor)]]
[[fr:Vaporisateur]]
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White people

2009-04-04T08:30:25Z

Parthian Scribe: /* United States */ Middle Eastern people and "Arabs" CANNOT BE USED interchangibly

{{redirect|Whites|other uses|White (disambiguation)}}
{{For|the album|White People}}

{{race}}
'''White people''' is a term which usually refers to [[Human|human beings]] characterized, at least in part, by the light [[Human skin color|pigmentation of their skin]]. It often refers narrowly to people claiming ancestry exclusively from [[Europe]].<ref>According to Alastair Bonnett non-European claims to racial whiteness in Europe and North America have been reduced to a "technicality little favoured outside certain immigration bureaucracies and traditional anthropology." Bonnett, Alastair (2000) ''White Identities''. Pearson Education. ISBN 058235627X</ref><ref>Claims of ancestry exclusively from Europe became important especially in the USA due to [[anti-miscegenation law]]s and the [[one drop rule]], where a single "drop" of non-European "blood" excludes that person from whiteness. Nevertheless according to Frank B. Sweet, recent research has shown that a significant minority of white people in the USA do have recent non-European ancestors that they are probably unaware of: "About one-third of White Americans are of between two and twenty percent recent African genetic admixture, as measured by the ancestry-informative markers in their DNA. This comes to about 74 million Americans." Sweet, Frank, B. (2004) "[http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=5 Afro-European Genetic Admixture in the United States]" in ''Backintyme Essays''. See also [[Passing (racial identity)]]</ref> A broadly corresponding and sometimes synonymous concept is the [[Caucasian race]].<ref name="bonnet2">Bonnett, Alastair (2000) ''White Identities'': "Nevertheless a much stronger current of scientific research supporters the theory that Europeans were but one expression of a wider racial group (termed sometimes Caucasian, Aryan and white), a group that included peoples from Asia and North Africa... in ''A Geography of Africa'' (Lyde 1914) 'The non-European population of Africa belongs mainly to one of two races, the White and the Black' Amongst the whites of African are included 'Arabs and Abysinians... Berbers and Tuaregs, Masai and Somalis'" p. 18</ref> [[Caucasoid]] people from the [[Middle Easterner|Middle East]], [[North Africa]], and parts of [[Central Asia|Central]] and [[South Asia]] are therefore also sometimes considered "white."<ref name="bonnet2"/><ref>The Great Human Diasporas by Cavali-Sforza, 1995, pg 119-120 writes “[T]he Caucasoids are mainly fair-skinned peoples, but this group also includes the southern Indians, who live in tropical areas and show signs of a marked darkening in skin pigmentation, although their facial and body traits are Caucasoid rather than African or Australian."</ref>

Rather than a straightforward description of skin color, the term ''white'' functions as a [[color terminology for race]]. Various conceptions of ''whiteness'' have had implications in terms of national identity, [[consanguinity]], [[Public policy (law)|public policy]], [[religion]], [[census|population statistics]], [[racial segregation]]/[[affirmative action]], [[eugenics]], racial [[marginalization]] and [[Quota share|racial quotas]]. The concept has been applied with varying degrees of formality and internal consistency in disciplines including: [[sociology]], [[politics]], [[genetics]], [[biology]], [[medicine]], [[biomedicine]], [[language]], [[culture]], and [[law]].

Raj Bhopal and Liam Donaldson, both M.D.s at the [[University of Newcastle upon Tyne]], [[England]], criticize the broad classification of ''white'' used by contemporary demographic surveys such as the U.S. Census and British Census. They state that the term ''white'' "in practice, refers to people of European origin with pale complexions". They conclude that white people are a sufficiently heterogeneous group that ''white'' should be abandoned as a classification for purposes of epidemiology and health research.<ref>{{cite journal |author=Bhopal R, Donaldson L |title=White, European, Western, Caucasian, or what? Inappropriate labeling in research on race, ethnicity, and health |journal=Am J Public Health |volume=88 |issue=9 |pages=1303–7 |year=1998 |month=September |pmid=9736867 |pmc=1509085 |doi= 10.2105/AJPH.88.9.1303|url=http://www.ajph.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=9736867}}</ref>

==History of the term==
The definition of white people has varied in different time periods and locations. [[Ancient Greece]] used the term white as one description of skin color. Its light appearance was distinguished, for example, in a comparison of white-skinned [[Persian Empire|Persian]] soldiers from the sun-tanned skin of Greek troops in [[Xenophon]]'s ''Agesilaus''.<ref name="Dee 2004">James H. Dee, "Black Odysseus, White Caesar: When Did 'White People' Become 'White'?" ''The Classical Journal'', Vol. 99, No. 2. (December 2003 – January 2004), pp. 162 ''ff.''.</ref> One early use of the term appears in the Amherst [[Papyri]], which were scrolls written in ancient [[Ptolemaic Greek]]. It contained the use of ''black'' and ''white'' in reference to [[human skin color]].<ref>Alan Cameron, [http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-9475(199821)119%3A1%3C113%3ABAWANO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-9 Black and White: A Note on Ancient Nicknames], ''The American Journal of Philology'', Vol. 119, No. 1 (Spring, 1998), pp. 113-117</ref> In an analysis of the rise of the term, classicist James Dee found that, "the Greeks do not describe themselves as "white people" —or as anything else because they had ''no'' regular word in their color vocabulary for themselves—and we can see that the concept of a distinct 'white race' was not present in the ancient world."<ref name="Dee 2004" />
Assignment of positive and negative connotations of ''white'' and ''black'' date to the classical period in a number of European languages, but these differences were not applied to skin color ''per se''. Religious conversion was described figuratively as a change in skin color.<ref name="Dee 2004" />

The term "white race" or "white people" entered dictionaries of the major [[European languages]] in the 1600s.<ref name="Dee 2004" /> [[Winthrop Jordan]], author of ''White Over Black: American Attitudes Towards the Negro'', argues that race emerged with the inherited status of [[slavery]]. He says the shift from ''[[Christian]]'', ''free'', and ''[[English people|English]]'' to ''white'' happened in approximately 1680.<ref>Winthrop D. Jordan, ''The White Man's Burden,'' (condensed version of ''Black Over White''), 1974, p. 52.</ref> James Allen notes in ''The Invention of the White Race'' that white identity emerged in the [[colony|colonies]] with slavery, and says, "Another seventeenth-century commentator, Morgan Godwyn, found it necessary to explain to the English at home that, in [[Barbados]], 'white' was "the general name for Europeans."<ref>{{cite book|author=James Allen| title=The Invention of the White Race: Racial Oppression and Social Control|url=http://clogic.eserver.org/1-2/allen.html|publisher=Verso|year=1994|id=ISBN 086091660X}}</ref> White quickly became a legal category, encoded in a variety of laws and conferring different status.

In 1758, [[Carolus Linnaeus]] proposed what he considered to be natural [[taxonomic]] categories of the human species. He distinguished between [[Homo sapiens]] and Homo sapiens europaeus, and he later added four geographical subdivisions of humans: white [[European ethnic groups|European]]s, [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|red Americans]], yellow [[Asian people|Asian]]s and black [[African]]s. Although Linnaeus intended them as objective classifications, he used both taxonomical and cultural data in his subdivision descriptions.<ref name="nature1">Sarah A Tishkoff & Kenneth K Kidd (2004) [http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1438.html Implications of biography of human populations for 'race' and medicine] ''Nature Genetics'' </ref>

In 1775, [[Johann Friedrich Blumenbach]] described the white race as "the white color holds the first place, such as it is that most Europeans. The redness of cheeks in this variety is almost peculiar to it: at all events it is but seldom seen in the rest... Color white, Cheeks rosy".<ref name=Painter>Painter, Nell Irvin. Yale University. "Why White People are Called Caucasian?" 2003. September 27, 2007. [http://www.yale.edu/glc/events/race/Painter.pdf]</ref> He categorized humans into five races, which largely corresponded with Linnaeus' classifications, except for the addition of [[Oceanian]]s (whom he called Malay).<ref name="nature1"/> He characterized the racial classification scheme of Metzger as making "two principal varieties as extremes:(1) the white man native of Europe, of the northern parts of Asia, America and Africa.."<ref name=Blumtreat />, and the racial classification scheme of John Hunter as having, "seven varieties:... (6) brownish as the southern Europeans, Italians &e., Turks, Abyssinians, Samoiedes and Lapps; (7) white, as the remaining Europeans, the Mingrelians and Kabardinski"<ref name=Blumtreat />. Blumenbach is known for arguing that physical characteristics like skin color, cranial profile, etc., were correlated with group character and aptitude. [[Craniometry]] and [[phrenology]] would attempt to make physical appearance correspond with racial categories. The fairness and relatively high brows of Caucasians were held to be apt physical expressions of a loftier mentality and a more generous spirit. The epicanthic folds around the eyes of Mongolians and their slightly sallow outer epidermal layer bespoke their supposedly crafty, literal-minded nature.

Later in life, Blumenbach encountered in Switzerland "eine zum Verlieben schönen Négresse" ("a negro woman so beautiful to fall in love with"). Further anatomical study led him to the conclusion that 'individual Africans differ as much, or even more, from other individual Africans as Europeans differ from Europeans'. Furthermore he concluded that Africans were not inferior to the rest of mankind 'concerning healthy faculties of understanding, excellent natural talents and mental capacities'.<ref>Jack Hitt, “Mighty White of You: Racial Preferences Color America’s Oldest Skulls and Bones,” Harper’s, July 2005, pp. 39-55</ref> These later ideas were far less influential than his earlier assertions with regard to the perceived relative qualities of the different races, which opened the way to secular and scientific [[racism]].<ref> Fredrickson, George M. ''Racism: A Short History'', p.57, Princeton University Press (2002), ISBN 0-691-00899-X</ref>

In a 1775 work, ''Von den verschiedenen Rassen der Menschen'' ("Of [About] The Different Races of Humans"), German philosopher [[Immanuel Kant]] used the term ''weiß'' (white) to refer to "the white one [race] of northern Europe" (p.267).<ref name=Blumtreat>Quoted in Blumenbach, Johann. The Anthropological Treatise of Johann Friedrich Blumenbach. London: Longman Green, 1865.</ref>

According to Gregory Jay, a professor of English at the [[University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee]],
{{bquote|Before the age of exploration, group differences were largely based on language, religion, and geography. … the European had always reacted a bit hysterically to the differences of skin color and facial structure between themselves and the populations encountered in Africa, Asia, and the Americas (see, for example, Shakespeare's dramatization of racial conflict in Othello and The Tempest). Beginning in the 1500s, Europeans began to develop what became known as "scientific racism," the attempt to construct a biological rather than cultural definition of race ... Whiteness, then, emerged as what we now call a "pan-ethnic" category, as a way of merging a variety of European ethnic populations into a single "race" …|||Gregory Jay|"Who Invented White People?"<ref name=GJay> Gregory Jay w [Who Invented White People? http://www.uwm.edu/~gjay/Whiteness/Whitenesstalk.html], 1998.</ref>}}

==Physical appearance==

There is no universal definition of "whiteness" as a human physical characteristic. The most notable trait describing people who identify as white is light skin, although even this trait is not universal amongst people identifying as white, for example there is an: "influence of social class to the fluidity of color/race identification in Brazil. Wealthier people with darker phenotypes tend to classify themselves and be classified by others in lighter categories".<ref>''[http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0102-311X2004000300003&lng=es&nrm=iso The concept and measurement of race and their relationship to public health: a review focused on Brazil and the United States]'' by Claudia Travassos and David R. Williams. ''Cad. Saúde Pública'' (2004) v.20 n.3. ''[http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=6 The Perception of “Racial” Traits]'' by Frank W Sweet. ''Essays on the Color Line and the One-Drop Rule'' (2004). [http://backintyme.com/essays/ Backintyme Essays]. Sexual preference of [[paleness]] in women is a [[cultural universal]], and has been reported from medieval Japan, Aztec Mexico and Moorish Spain, even before there was significant contact with Western ideology: [[Peter Frost]] "Fair Women, Dark Men: The Forgotten Roots of Color Prejudice," (2005). Preference of lighter-skinned women by black men is reported both in sub-Saharan Africa and in the black diaspora ([http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_2730_134/ai_n16108105 Lyang 2006]</ref>{{Dubious|date=October 2008}}

===Light skin===
White people are archetypically distinguished by light skin. Scientists discovered a skin-whitening mutation that largely explains the first appearance of white skin in humans between 20,000-50,000 years ago.<ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501728.html Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin], The Washington Post, December 16, 2005</ref> In Jablonski and Chaplin's (2000) study, ''The evolution of human skin coloration'', Europeans have lighter skin (as measured by population average skin reflectance read by [[spectrophotometer]] at A685) than any other group that was measured. On the other hand, women have lighter skin than men in all human groups. Southern Europeans (measures taken from [[Spaniards]]) show a skin pigmentation in parts of the body not exposed to the sun similar to that of Northern Europeans and, in some cases, even lighter.<ref name="jablonski"> NG, Chaplin G. 2000 [http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/chem/faculty/leontis/chem447/PDF_files/Jablonski_skin_color_2000.pdf The evolution of skin coloration], p. 19.</ref> While all mean values of skin reflectance of non-European populations are lower than Europeans for the groups represented in this study, there is significant overlap between populations.<ref>American Anthropological Association, "[http://www.understandingrace.org/humvar/spectrum.html The Human Spectrum]", ''Race: Are we so different?'' website.</ref> This observation has been noted by the [[Supreme Court of the United States]], which stated in a 1923 [[lawsuit]] over whiteness that the "swarthy brunette[s] ... are darker than some of the lighter hued persons of the brown or yellow races".<ref>John Tehranian, "Performing Whiteness: Naturalization Litigation and the Construction of Racial Identity in America," ''The Yale Law Journal'', Vol. 109, No. 4. (Jan., 2000), p. 827.</ref>

The epidermis of light skinned people is not actually white. The underlying layers of [[collagen]] and [[adipose]] tissue are white in people of all races. In lightly pigmented people, the [[Epidermis (skin)|epidermis]] is an almost transparent layer of film. Consequently the epidermis allows the underlying white tissues to become visible.<ref>[http://www.siumed.edu/~dking2/intro/skin.htm#appearance Introduction to Skin Histology]</ref> Blood vessels interlaced between the [[adipose tissue]] produce the pale pink color associated with light skin. Pigments known as [[carotene]]s found in the fat produce a more yellow effect. In darker skinned people the epidermis is filled with [[melanosome]]s that obscure the underlying layers.<ref>[http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_4.htm Skin Color Adaptation]</ref><ref>[http://www.pg.com/science/skincare/Skin_tws_28.htm Light and the 4 skin color components]</ref><ref>[http://www.pg.com/science/skincare/Skin_tws_10.htm The 3 skin layers: epidermis, dermis, subcutaneous fat]</ref>
Most mammals have a thick layer of body hair that protects the skin from the sun's rays and also keeps the body warm at night. Chimpanzees are the closest living relatives to humans. Since they have light skin covered by hair, it is likely that our shared common ancestor would also have lacked pigmentation and been covered by hair.<ref name="humans_fur">[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C03E0DE1030F93AA2575BC0A9659C8B63&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=2 Why humans and their fur parted ways]</ref> As human brain size increased the increase in its energy requirements would have required finer [[thermoregulation]] to avoid overheating.<ref name="jablonski"/> This may be one reason why humans developed sweat glands, an evolution we share only with similarly hairless swine. The additional loss of body hair would have increased the effectiveness of evaporation of sweat, and produced better cooling.<ref name="jablonski"/> Though naked skin is advantageous for thermoregulation, it exposes the epidermis to destructive levels of UV radiation that can cause sunburn, skin cancer and birth defects resulting from the destruction of the essential vitamin B folate.<ref name="jablonski"/> Consequently strong natural selection in Africa favored increased levels of melanin in the skin, and the hairless [[Hominina]] ancestors of modern humans lost their light skin.<ref name="jablonski"/>

The skin of [[albino]]s is similar to European and [[East Asian]] people's skin in that it is depigmented relative to other populations. However, in white and East Asian people the enzymes that produce [[melanin]] are still active and produce relatively small amounts of melanin to provide some coloration to the skin. With albinos, the enzyme that produces melanin is defective, thus they produce virtually no melanin, which produces the palest skin of all humans.<ref>[http://www.caymannetnews.com/Archive/Archive%20Articles/December%202001/Issue%20136/How%20Skin.html ] Skin Care: How to Save Your Skin page 13 ISBN 0766838188</ref> Since melanin protects the skin from [[UV radiation]], albinos have no natural protection and their skin is vulnerable to sunlight that can be tolerated by other light-skinned peoples. Furthermore in the presence of more intense levels of UV radiation from the sun, the skin cells of white and East Asian people are able to produce additional amounts of melanin to [[sun tanning|tan]] the skin to a darker complexion, providing extra protection, while albinos lack the ability to tan.<ref>[http://discovermagazine.com/1994/nov/theskinwerein443 The skin we're in]</ref><ref>{{cite journal |author=Barsh GS |title=What controls variation in human skin color? |journal=PLoS Biol. |volume=1 |issue=1 |pages=E27 |year=2003 |month=October |pmid=14551921 |pmc=212702 |doi=10.1371/journal.pbio.0000027 |url=}}</ref>
Albinism is very rare. For example, one person in 17,000 in the United States has some type of albinism.<ref>[http://www.albinism.org/publications/what_is_albinism.html Albinism]</ref>

====Origins of light skin====

Any mutation that produced lighter skin color would have been a severe disadvantage to those living under the bright African sun.<ref name="humans_fur"/> When humans left Africa for less sun intense regions of the world, the selective pressure against lighter skin would have relaxed. This probably explains the greater variety of skin color found outside sub-Saharan Africa.<ref>{{cite journal | url=http://www.backintyme.com/skincolor/rana01.pdf |format=PDF| author=Rana et al | title=High Polymorphism at the Human Melanocortin 1 Receptor Locus |doi=10.1034/j.1600-0749.2000.130303.x | journal=Pigment Cell Research | year=2000 | volume=13 | pages=135}}</ref> Lighter skin colors may have been advantageous at higher latitudes since they allow greater penetration of the sun's UV radiation, a requirement for [[vitamin D#Production in the skin|vitamin D synthesis]]. This may have led to selection for lightly pigmented skin.<ref name="humans_fur"/> Scientists have identified at least 100 genes associated with pigment processing. Though African populations are relatively dark, according to a recent study{{Fact|date=October 2008}} they possess a greater diversity in skin complexion than all other populations. It is therefore likely that many of the alleles associated with light pigmentation were already present in an ancestral population in Africa prior to their dispersal. When humans migrated out of Africa, the lighter skin causing alleles may have accumulated in one population, either by [[genetic drift]], [[natural selection]], [[sexual selection]] or a combination of these effects. Since their effects are additive it is possible light skin could arise over several generations without any new mutations taking place.<ref>[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3659/is_200010/ai_n8910333/pg_1 Human skin color diversity is highest in sub-Saharan African populations]</ref><ref name="convergent"/>

According to [[Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza]], light skin probably arose in [[North Africa]] or both in the north and east.<ref>Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, ''Genes, Peoples and Languages'' p75, Penguin, 2001, ISBN 0140296026</ref>

A 2006 study provides evidence that the light skin pigmentation observed in Europeans and East Asians arose independently. They concluded that light pigmentation in Europeans is at least partially due to the effects of positive directional and/or sexual selection.<ref name="oxford1">Heather L. Norton, Rick A. Kittles, Esteban Parra, Paul McKeigue, Xianyun Mao, Keith Cheng, Victor A. Canfield, Daniel G. Bradley, Brian McEvoy and Mark D. Shriver (December 11, 2006) Genetic Evidence for the Convergent Evolution of Light Skin in Europeans and East Asians '''Oxford Journals''' [http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/msl203v1.pdf] </ref>

====Molecular biology of light skin====
Skin color is a quantitative trait that varies continuously on a gradient from dark to light, as it is a [[polygenic]] trait, under the influence of several genes. Many of these genes have yet to be identified, however two genes are known that do contribute to skin color, they are the ''[[melanocortin 1 receptor|MC1R]]'' and the ''[[SLC24A5]]'' genes.<ref name="humans_fur"/> The mutation resulting in the light skin version of the ''SLC24A5'' gene has been estimated to have originated in Europe between 6,000 and 12,000 years ago, indicating that at least one of the genes responsible for pale skin colour in Europeans arose relatively recently.<ref>{{cite journal |author=Gibbons A |title=American Association of Physical Anthropologists meeting. European skin turned pale only recently, gene suggests |journal=Science |volume=316 |issue=5823 |pages=364 |year=2007 |pmid=17446367 |doi=10.1126/science.316.5823.364a |url=http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4784/eurospaleonlyrecentlypu0.jpg}}</ref>

Mixed ancestry people of African-European descent who possess one or two copies of the European allele of the ''SLC24A5'' gene have skin color that is significantly lighter than mixed ancestry people who possess only the African allele. It is estimated, based on this observation, that the ''SLC24A5'' locus "explains between 25-38% of the European-African difference in skin melanin index".<ref>[http://www.hmc.psu.edu/pathology/residency/experimental/cheng%20pdf%20files/SciencePaper&Suppl.pdf SLC24A5, a Putative Cation Exchanger, Affects Pigmentation in Zebrafish and Humans]</ref><ref name="convergent">Heather L. Norton, Rick A. Kittles, Esteban Parra, Paul McKeigue, Xianyun Mao, Keith Cheng, Victor A. Canfield, Daniel G. Bradley, Brian McEvoy and Mark D. Shriver (December 11, 2006) Genetic Evidence for the Convergent Evolution of Light Skin in Europeans and East Asians ''Oxford Journals'' [http://www.erin.utoronto.ca/~eparra/profile/PDF%20files/Norton%20et%20al.,%202007.pdf]</ref><ref name= "washpost">{{cite journal | author=Lamason RL, Mohideen MA, Mest JR, Wong AC, Norton HL, Aros MC, Jurynec MJ, Mao X, Humphreville VR, Humbert JE, Sinha S, Moore JL, Jagadeeswaran P, Zhao W, Ning G, Makalowska I, McKeigue PM, O'donnell D, Kittles R, Parra EJ, Mangini NJ, Grunwald DJ, Shriver MD, Canfield VA, Cheng KC | title=SLC24A5, a putative cation exchanger, affects pigmentation in zebrafish and humans | journal=Science | year=2005 | pages=1782–6 | volume=310 | issue=5755 | pmid=16357253 | doi=10.1126/science.1116238}}</ref><ref name= "washpost2"> [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501728.html Scientists Find A DNA Change That Accounts For White Skin], Washington Post</ref>

==Census and social definitions in different regions==
{{further|[[Whiteness studies]]}}

Definitions of white have changed over the years, including the official definitions used in many countries, such as the United States and Brazil.<ref name="Dealing with Diversity">{{cite book | last =Adams | first =J.Q. | authorlink = | coauthors =Pearlie Strother-Adams | year =2001 | title =Dealing with Diversity | publisher =Kendall/Hunt Publishing Company | location =Chicago, IL |isbn = 0-7872-8145-X}}</ref> Some defied official regulations through the phenomenon of "[[Passing (racial identity)|passing]]", many of them becoming white people, either temporarily or permanently. Through the mid- to late 20th century, numerous countries had formal legal standards or procedures defining racial categories (see [[cleanliness of blood]], [[apartheid in South Africa]], [[hypodescent]]). However, as critiques of racism and scientific arguments against the existence of race arose, a trend towards self-identification of racial status arose. Below are some census definitions of white, which may differ from the social definition of white within the same country. The social definition has also been added where possible.

===Argentina===
{{main|White Argentine}}
[[demographics of Argentina|Argentina]], along with other areas of new settlement like Canada, Australia, New Zealand or the United States, is considered a country of immigrants where the vast majority originated from [[Europe]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6347349.stm |title=<nowiki>BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | Argentina's last Jewish cowboys</nowiki>}}</ref> According to different estimates, white Argentines make up anywhere from 86.4%<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Argentina.html |title=Argentine Demographics}}</ref> to 97% of Argentina's population, or around 39 million people.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ar.html |title=CIA World Factbook - Argentina}}</ref>

Most immigrants came between the mid-19th century and [[World War II]]. Nearly half were from [[Italy]],<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1990/1/90.01.06.x.html |title=90.01.06: South American Immigration: Argentina |accessdate=2008-12-01}}</ref> and almost one third from Spain. Poland, France, the Ottoman Empire (chiefly Christian Lebanese and Syrians), Russia, Austria-Hungary, Germany, Yugoslavia, and Portugal made up the other eight top sources of immigrants. Switzerland, Belgium, United Kingdom, Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, and the United States were the next largest. [[Ashkenazi Jews|European Jews]] were among the [[Eastern Europe]]an arrivals.

Argentine censuses are conducted on the basis of self-identification. According to the last census, 95% of Argentines identify as white.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.indec.mecon.ar/webcenso/index.asp |title=2001 National Census}}</ref>{{Verify source|date=December 2008}}

Criticism of the national census state that data has historically been collected using the category of national origin rather than race in Argentina, leading to undercounting [[Afro-Argentines]] and [[mestizos]].<ref>[http://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/georegions/southamerica/argentina01.htm Racial Discrimination in Argentina]</ref> Africa Viva (Africa Lives) is a black rights group in [[Buenos Aires]] with the support of the [[Organization of American States]], financial aid from the [[World Bank]] and Argentina's census bureau is working to add an "Afro-descendants" category to the 2010 census. The 1887 national census was the final year where blacks were included as a separate category before it was eliminated by the government.<ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/27/MNGH0FU3UG1.DTL Blacks in Argentina - officially a few, but maybe a million]</ref>

===Australia===
{{see|Europeans in Oceania}}
From 1788, when the [[History of New South Wales|first British colony in Australia]] was founded, until the early 19th century, most immigrants to Australia were [[Convicts in Australia|British and Irish convicts]]. These were augmented by small numbers of free settlers from Britain, Ireland and other European countries. However, until the mid-19th century, there were few restrictions on immigration, although members of ethnic minorities tended to be assimilated into the [[Anglo-Celtic]] populations.

People of many nationalties, including many non-white people, emigrated to Australia during the [[Australian gold rushes|goldrushes]] of the 1850s. However, the vast majority was still white and the goldrushes inspired the [[Lambing Flat riots|first racist activism]] and policy, directed mainly at [[Chinese people]].

From the late 19th century, the [[States and territories of Australia|Colonial/State]] and later [[Government of Australia|federal government]]s of Australia restricted all permanent immigration to the country by non-Europeans. These policies became known as the "[[White Australia policy]]", which was consolidated and enabled by the [[Immigration Restriction Act 1901]],<ref>Immigration Restriction Act 1901 [http://www.foundingdocs.gov.au/item.asp?dID=16]</ref> but was never universally applied. Immigration inspectors were empowered to ask immigrants to take dictation from any [[European language]] as a test for admittance, a test used in practice to exclude people from Asia, Africa, and some European and South American countries, depending on the political climate.

Although they were not the prime targets of the policy, it was not until after [[World War II]] that large numbers of [[southern Europe]]an and [[eastern Europe]]an immigrants were admitted for the first time.<ref>Stephen Castles, "The Australian Model of Immigration and Multiculturalism: Is It Applicable to Europe?," ''International Migration Review'', Vol. 26, No. 2, Special Issue: The New Europe and International Migration. (Summer, 1992), pp. 549-567.</ref> Following this, the White Australia Policy was relaxed in stages: non-European nationals who could demonstrate European descent were admitted (e.g. descendants of European colonizers and settlers from [[Latin American]] or [[Africa]]), as were [[autochthonous]] inhabitants of various nations from the [[Middle East]], most significantly from [[Lebanon]]. In 1973, all immigration restrictions based on race and/or geographic origin were officially terminated.

===Brazil===
{{main|White Brazilian}}
According to the IBGE's 2006 PNAD (National Research by Sample of Dwellings) <ref>http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/estatistica/populacao/condicaodevida/indicadoresminimos/sinteseindicsociais2006/indic_sociais2006.pdf Table 9.1</ref>, White Brazilians make up 49.7% of Brazil's population, or around 93 million people. Whites are present in the entire territory of Brazil, although the main concentrations are found in the South and Southeastern parts of the country. White Brazilians are all people who are full or mainly descended of European and other White immigrants.

Brazil has the largest White population in the Southern Hemisphere, and the third largest in the World, after the United States and Russia. The main ancestries of White Brazilians are Portuguese, Italian, Spanish and German.<ref>[http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1234928 The Phylogeography of Brazilian Y-Chromosome Lineages]</ref>

===Canada===
In the results of [[Statistics Canada]]'s 2001 [[Canadian Census]], ''white'' is one category in the ''population groups'' data variable, derived from data collected in question 19 (the results of this question are also used to derive the ''visible minority groups'' variable).<ref>"Groups" in Statistics Canada, [http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/docs/eng2b.pdf Sample 20001 Census form]. Statistics Canada, [http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Reference/tech_rep/vismin.cfm 2001 Census Visible Minority and Population Group User Guide]</ref>

In the 1995 Employment Equity Act, '"members of visible minorities" means persons, other than Aboriginal peoples, who are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour'. In the 2001 Census, persons who marked-in Chinese, South Asian, African, Filipino, Latin American, Southeast Asian, Arab, West Asian, Middle Eastern, Japanese or Korean were included in the visible minority population.<ref>Human Resources and Social Development Canada, [http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/asp/gateway.asp?hr=/en/lp/lo/lswe/we/ee_tools/data/eedr/annual/2001/technotes.shtml&hs= 2001 Employment Equity Data Report]</ref> A separate census question on "cultural or ethnic origin" (question 17) does not refer to [[Human skin color|skin color]].<ref>Census 2001: 2B (Long Form)</ref>

=== Chile ===
{{main|Demographics of Chile}}
The bulk of the [[Demographics of Chile|Chilean]] population features a white and white-mestizo (castizo) composition.<ref>[https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ci.html#People CIA - The World Factbook - Chile]</ref> making up the 95% of the population. A more detailed breakdown classifies 30% of Chileans as [[white]] and 65% as either [[castizo]] ("white mestizo").<ref name="Estructura racial - SISIB">Biblioteca Digital de la Universidad de Chile, [http://mazinger.sisib.uchile.cl/repositorio/lb/ciencias_quimicas_y_farmaceuticas/medinae/cap2/5b6.html Estructura racial]</ref> According to another recent study estimates that Lizcano (2005), the [[whites]] population corresponds to a 52.7% of Chileans.<ref name="Lizcano">
[http://books.google.cl/books?id=LcabJ98-t1wC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=chile+60%25+blancos+Esteva-Fabregat&source=bl&ots=AMUjY09aVi&sig=3PCwfKDokrZYem3dcZ2gkToFIoE&hl=es&ei=k8WjSYT3HJaitgfGncnOBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPA110,M1 Composición Étnica de las Tres Áreas Culturales del Continente Americano al Comienzo del Siglo XXI]</ref> And from Chile's various waves of immigrants [[Spanish people|Spanish]], [[Italian Chilean|Italians]], [[Irish people|Irish]], [[French Chilean|French]], [[German Chilean|Germans]], [[English people|English]], [[Scottish people|Scots]], [[Croatian people|Croats]], and [[Palestinian Chilean|Palestinian]] communities, the latter being the largest colony of that people outside of the Arab world.<ref>[http://www.blog-v.com/arabesenchile/ ''descendientes de árabes en porcentajes''.]</ref>
<ref>[http://laventana.casa.cult.cu/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=514 500,000 descendientes de palestinos en Chile.]</ref>
<ref>[http://www.nuestro.cl/notas/rescate/patronato1.htm immigrants Palestinians in Chile.]</ref> The more notable other groups are the largest ethnic group that makes up the Chilean population are arrived from [[Spain]] and Basque regions in the south of [[France]]. Estimated to be descendants of [[Basque people|Basques]] in Chile from 10% (1,600,000) to as high as 27% (4,500,000).<ref>[http://www.diariovasco.com/pg060724/prensa/noticias/AlDia/200607/24/DVA-ALD-003.html Diariovasco.]</ref> <ref>[http://www.deia.com/es/impresa/2008/05/22/bizkaia/ekonomia/469496.php entrevista al Presidente de la Cámara vasca.]</ref>
<ref>[http://www.osasun.ejgv.euskadi.net/r52-20726/es/contenidos/noticia/albis12_257_txile_08_11/es_txile/albis12_257_txile_08_11.html vascos] '''Ainara Madariaga''':
Autora del estudio ''"Imaginarios vascos desde Chile La construcción de imaginarios vascos en Chile durante el siglo XX"''.</ref>
<ref>[http://www.euskonews.com/0072zbk/gaia7204es.html Basques au Chili.]</ref>
<ref>'''''Contacto Interlingüístico e intercultural en el mundo hispano.instituto valenciano de lenguas y culturas.Universitat de València Cita:''''' " Un 20% de la población chilena tiene su origen en el País Vasco"''.</ref>
Another group of immigrants are historically significant, [[Croatia]]n with 380,000 to 500,000 with the highest number of descendants of Croats.<ref>[http://hrvatskimigracije.es.tl/Diaspora-Croata.htm Diaspora Croata.]</ref><ref>[http://www.hrvatski.cl/html/croatas.htm hrvatski.]</ref>
They did transform the country culturally, economically and politically.

=== Costa Rica ===
In 2008, Costa Rica had an estimated [[population]] of 4.381.987 persons.Together, [[whites]] and [[mestizos]] make up a full 94% of the population ,3 % are black people, 1 % amerindians, 1% Chinese, 1% other . [[Costa Rica]] white ancestry is mostly [[Spanish people|Spanish]] but there are significant numbers of Costa Ricans descent of [[Italians|Italian]], [[Germans|German]], [[English people|English]], [[Dutch people|Dutch]], [[French people|French]], [[Portuguese people|Portuguese]] and [[Polish people|Polish]], as well a sizable [[Jewish]] community.<ref>[https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cs.html#People CIA-The World Factbook-- Cost Rica]</ref>

===Norway===
According to the Norwegian Social Science Data Service, white is a possible answer to ethnic/people group category question. After [[Norwegian people|Norwegians]], [[Sami people|Sami]], [[Kven]]s and other Nordics, it is mentioned as white/[[Europe]]an. Other categories are [[Asian people|Asian]], [[Black people|Black]]/[[African people|African]]/Caribbean and "other".<ref>[http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/02/01/10/innvbef_en/ Immigrant population]</ref>

===South Africa===
[[White South African]]s is a term which refers to people from [[South Africa]] who are of [[Afrikaner]], [[United Kingdom|British]] or other [[continental European]] descent. Statistics South Africa estimates that there are about 4.3 million Whites in South Africa (2007)<ref>[http://www.southafrica.info/about/people/population.htm South Africa's population], SouthAfrica.info</ref>—down from an all-time high of 5.2 million in 1995.<ref>[http://www.fin24.com/articles/default/display_article.aspx?ArticleId=1518-25_2003186 Million whites leave SA - study], fin24.com, September 24, 2006</ref>

Prior to the decolonisation movements of the post-[[World War II]] era, Whites were represented in every part of Africa.<ref>[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901759-3,00.html "We Want Our Country" (3 of 10)], TIME</ref> Decolonisation during the 1960s and 1970s often resulted in the mass emigration of European-descended settlers out of Africa – especially from Algeria (''[[Pied-noir|pieds-noirs]]''), Kenya, Congo, Angola, Mozambique and Rhodesia. Nevertheless, [[White Africans]] remain an important minority in many African states. The African country with the largest White African population is South Africa.<ref>[https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sf.html#People South Africa: People: Ethnic Groups.] World Factbook of CIA</ref>

===Great Britain and Ireland===
====Historical white identities====
Historically in Great Britain and Ireland whiteness may have been associated with social status. Aristocrats may have had less exposure to the sun, and therefore a pale complexion may have been associated with status and wealth. This may be the origin of "blue blood" as a description of royalty, the skin being so lightly pigmented that the blueness of the veins could be clearly seen.<ref>Bonnet, Alistair (2000) ''White Identities'' p. 32</ref> The change in the meaning of white that occurred in the colonies (see [[White_people#History_of_the_term|above]]) to distinguish Europeans from non-Europeans did not apply to '[[Home Nations|home]]' countries ([[England]], [[Ireland]], [[Scotland]] and [[Wales]]). Whiteness therefore retained a meaning associated with social status. During the nineteenth century, when the [[British Empire]] was at its peak, many of the [[bourgeoisie]] and [[aristocracy]] developed extremely [[chauvinism|chauvinistic]] attitudes to those of lower social rank. [[Edward Lhuyd]] discovered that [[Welsh language|Welsh]], [[Goidelic languages|Gaelic]], [[Cornish language|Cornish]] and [[Breton language|Breton]] are all part of the same language family, which he called "[[Celtic languages|Celtic]]," and were distinct from the [[Germanic languages|Germanic]] [[English language|English]]; this can be seen in context with nineteenth century [[romantic nationalism]]. On the other hand the discovery of [[Anglo-Saxons|Anglo-Saxon]] remains also led to a belief that the English were descended from a distinct Germanic lineage that was fundamentally (and racially) different to that of the [[Modern Celts|Celts]]. Early [[British people|British]] anthropologists such as [[John Beddoe]] and [[Robert Knox]] emphasised this distinction, and it was common to find texts that claimed that Welsh, Irish and Scottish people are the descendants of the indigenous more "primitive" inhabitants of the islands, while the English, are the descendants of a more advanced and recent "Germanic" migration. Beddoe especially postulated that the Welsh and Irish people are closer to the [[Cro-Magnon]], whom he also considered ''Africanoid'', and it was common to find references to the [[wikt:swarthy|swarthy]]ness of the skin of peoples from the west of the islands, by comparison to the more pale skinned and blond English residing in the east. For example [[Thomas Huxley]]'s "On the Geographical Distribution of the Chief Modifications of Mankind" (1870) described Irish, Scots and Welsh peoples as a mixture of "melanochroi" (melano - dark coloured), and "xanthochroi", while the English were "xanthochroi" (xanthro - yellow). Just as race reified whiteness in the colonies, so capitalism without social welfare reified whiteness with regards to social class in nineteenth century Britain and Ireland; this social distinction of whiteness became, over time, associated with racial difference. For example George Sims in ''How the poor live'' (1883) wrote of "…a dark continent that is within easy reach of the General Post Office… the wild races who inhabit it will, I trust, gain public sympathy as easily as [other] savage tribes"<ref>Bonnet, Alistair (2000) ''White Identities'' p. 31</ref> and Count Gobineau in ''The Inequality of Human Races'' wrote the following: <blockquote>Every social order is founded upon three social classes, each of which represents a racial variety: the nobility, a more or less accurate reflection of the conquering race; the bourgeoisie composed of mixed stock coming close to the chief race; and the common people who live in servitude or at least in a very depressed position.<ref>Bonnet, Alistair (2000) ''White Identities'' p. 37</ref></blockquote>

====Modern and official use====
In the UK, the [[Office for National Statistics]] uses the term ''white'' as an ethnic category. The terms ''[[White British]]'', ''[[Irish Briton|White Irish]]'' and ''[[White Other (United Kingdom Census)|White Other]]'' are used. ''White British'' includes [[English people|English]], [[Northern Ireland|Northern Irish]], [[Scottish people|Scottish]], and [[Welsh people|Welsh]] peoples. The category ''White Irish'' refers to white people from the [[Republic of Ireland]]. ''White Other'' includes all white people not from the British Isles.<ref>[http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=459 Identity], Ethnicity and Identity, National Statistics online. Retrieved 3 November 2006.</ref><ref>[http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/commentaries/ethnicity.asp#ethnic Census 2001 - Ethnicity and religion in England and Wales], Ethnicity and religion. Retrieved 3 November 2001.</ref>
Socially, in the UK white usually refers only to people of native British and European origin.<ref>Kissoon, Priya. King's College of London. Asylum Seekers: National Problem or National Solution. 2005. November 7, 2006.</ref> In 2001 92.2% of the British population identified themselves as white, and 2006 estimates for England only, state the English population as 88.7% white; however, birth records for 2005 identify less than 65% of newborns as white.<ref>[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1050593/Only-babies-born-England-Wales-white-British.html 2005 birth records reveal less than 65% of newborns in England and Wales as white]</ref>

===United States===
{{seealso|White American|Definitions of whiteness in the United States}}
The current U.S. Census definition includes white "people having origins in any of the original peoples of [[Europe]], the [[Middle East]] or [[North Africa]].<ref name="Wpop">[http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-4.pdf The White Population: 2000], Census 2000 Brief C2KBR/01-4, U.S. Census Bureau, August 2001.</ref> The U.S. Department of Justice Federal Bureau of Investigation describes white people as "having origins in any of the original peoples of [[Europe]], the [[Middle East]], or [[North Africa]] through racial categories used in the UCR Program adopted from the Statistical Policy Handbook (1978) and published by the Office of Federal Statistical Policy and Standards, U.S. Department of Commerce.<ref name="FBIpop">[http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/handbook/ucrhandbook04.pdf Uniform Crime Reporting Handbook], U.S. Department of Justice. Federal Bureau of Investigation. P. 97 (2004)</ref>

The cultural boundaries separating [[white American]]s from other racial or ethnic categories are contested and always changing. According to John Tehranian, among those not considered white at some points in American history have been: the [[Irish people|Irish]], [[Germans]], [[Jews]], [[Italians]], [[Spaniards]], [[White Hispanic and Latino Americans|Hispanics]], [[Slavs]], and [[Greeks]].<ref>John Tehranian, "Performing Whiteness: Naturalization Litigation and the Construction of Racial Identity in America," ''The Yale Law Journal'', Vol. 109, No. 4. (Jan., 2000), pp. 825-827.</ref> Studies have found that while current parameters officially encompassed Arabs as part of the White American racial category, a lot of Arab Americans from places other than [[Bilad al-Sham]] feel they are not white and are not perceived as white by American society."<ref name="caliber">[http://caliber.ucpress.net/doi/abs/10.1525/sop.2004.47.4.371 Caliber - Sociological Perspectives - 47(4):371 - Abstract]</ref>

Professor [[David Roediger|David R. Roediger]] of the [[University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign|University of Illinois]], suggests that the construction of the white race in the United States was an effort to mentally distance slave owners from slaves.<ref>Roediger, Wages of Whiteness, 186; Tony Horwitz, Confederates in the Attic: Dispatches from the Unfinished Civil War (New York, 1998). </ref> By the 18th century, ''white'' had become well established as a racial term. The process of officially being defined as ''white'' by law often came about in court disputes over pursuit of [[citizenship]]. The Immigration Act of 1790 offered [[naturalization]] only to "any alien, being a free white person". In at least 52 cases, people denied the status of white by immigration officials sued in court for status as white people. By 1923, courts had vindicated a "common-knowledge" standard, concluding that "scientific evidence" was incoherent. Legal scholar John Tehranian argues that in reality this was a "performance-based" standard, relating to religious practices, education, intermarriage and a community's role in the United States.<ref>John Tehranian, "Performing Whiteness: Naturalization Litigation and the Construction of Racial Identity in America," ''The Yale Law Journal'', Vol. 109, No. 4. (Jan., 2000), pp. 817-848.</ref>

In 1923, the [[Supreme Court of the United States|Supreme Court]] decided in ''[[United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind]]'' that people of India were not "free white men" entitled to citizenship, despite anthropological evidence in "''the extreme northwestern districts of India''"<ref name=Thind>United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind, Certificate From The Circuit Court Of Appeals For The Ninth Circuit., No. 202. Argued January 11, 12, 1923.—Decided February 19, 1923, United States Reports, v. 261, The Supreme Court, October Term, 1922, 204–215.</ref> there is present the "''[[Caucasian race|Caucasian]] or [[Aryan race]]''"<ref name=Thind /> with an "''intermixture of blood''"<ref name=Thind /> from the "''dark skinned [[Dravidian people|Dravidian]].
====One drop rule====
{{Further|[[One drop rule]]|[[Racial segregation]]}}
The ''one drop rule'' — that a person with any amount of known of African ancestry (however small or invisible) is not white — is a classification that was used in the United States.<ref>[http://www.people.vcu.edu/~albest/misc/OneDropOfBlood.html One drop of blood]</ref> It is a colloquial term for a set of laws passed by 18 states of the USA between 1910 and 1931, many of these laws were passed as a consequence of [[Plessy v. Ferguson]], a [[Supreme Court of the United States|Supreme Court]] decision that upheld the concept of [[racial segregation]] by accepting a [[separate but equal]] argument. The set of laws was finally declared unconstitutional in 1967, when the Supreme Court ruled on [[anti-miscegenation laws]] while hearing [[Loving v. Virginia]], which also found that [[Racial Integrity Act of 1924|Virginia's Racial Integrity Act of 1924]] was unconstitutional. The one drop rule attempted to create a bifurcated system of either black or white regardless of a person's physical appearance, but sometimes failed as people with African ancestry sometimes passed as "white" as noted above. This contrasts with the more flexible social structures present in [[Latin America]], where there were no clear-cut divisions between various ethnicities.<ref>[http://backintyme.com/essays/?p=25 The triumph of the one drop rule]</ref>.

As a result of centuries of having children with White people, the majority of African Americans have white admixture, and many white people also have African ancestry. Robert P. Stuckert, member of the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at [[The Ohio State University]] said that the majority of the descendants of African slaves are white.<ref>[https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4532/1/V58N03_155.pdf The African ancestry of the white American population]</ref>
Writer and editor [[Debra Dickerson]] questions the legitimacy of the one drop rule, stating that "easily one-third of blacks have white DNA".<ref>''The End of Blackness'' by Debra Dickerson.</ref> She argues that in ignoring their white ancestry, African Americans are denying their fully articulated [[multi-racial]] identities. The peculiarity of the one drop rule may be illustrated by the case of singer [[Mariah Carey]],<ref>[http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/04/carey_cites_bir.php Carey Cites Bi-Racial Family for Insecurities] American Renaissance News</ref> who was publicly called "another white girl trying to sing black", but
in an interview with [[Larry King]], responded that—despite her physical appearance and the fact that she was raised primarily by her white mother—due to the one drop rule she did not "feel white."<ref>[http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070729174659AAy2C4h Yahoo questions/answers/ Is Mariah Carey white?]</ref><ref>[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n5_v46/ai_10405332 Mariah Carey: 'Not another White girl trying to sing Black.']</ref><ref>[http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0212/19/lkl.00.html Larry King interview with Mariah Carey]</ref>

===Uruguay===

{{main|Demographics of Uruguay}}

[[Uruguay]]ans and [[Argentina|Argentines]] share closely related demographic ties. Different estimates state that Uruguay's population of 3.4 million is composed of 88% to 93% white Uruguayans.<ref>[http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2091.htm Uruguay (07/08)]</ref><ref>[https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/uy.html#People CIA - The World Factbook - Uruguay]</ref> Uruguay's population is heavily populated by people of [[European ethnic groups|European]] origin mainly [[Spaniards]], followed closely by [[Italians]],<ref>[http://countrystudies.us/uruguay/30.htm Uruguay - Population ]</ref> including numbers of French, Germans, Irish, British, Swiss, [[Eastern Europe]]ans, [[Southern Europe]]ans, Dutch, Belgians, Austrians, Scandinavians, Lebanese, and Armenians which migrated to Uruguay in the late 19th and 20th centuries.{{Fact|date=August 2008}}

According to the 2006 National Survey of Homes by the Uruguayan National Institute of Statistics: 94.6% self-identified as having a white background, 9.1% chose Afro/Black ancestry, and 4.5% chose a native American ancestry (people surveyed were allowed to choose more than one option).<ref name=enha_asc>{{cite web |title=Extended National Household Survey, 2006: Ancestry |language=Spanish |format=pdf |publisher=National Institute of Statistics |url=http://www.ine.gub.uy/enha2006/flash/Flash%20Ascendencia.pdf }}</ref>

== References ==
{{reflist|3}}
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761572479/costa_rica.html

==Bibliography==
*Allen, Theodore, ''The Invention of the White Race'', 2 vols. (London: Verso, 1994)
*Bonnett, Alastair ''White Identities: Historical and International Perspectives'' (Harlow, Pearson, 2000)
* Brodkin, Karen, ''How Jews Became White Folks and What That Says About Race in America'', Rutgers, 1999, ISBN 0-8135-2590-X.
*Foley, Neil, ''The White Scourge: Mexicans, Blacks, and Poor Whites in Texas Cotton Culture'' (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1997)
*Gossett, Thomas F. , ''Race: The History of an Idea in America,'' New ed. (New York: Oxford University, 1997)
* Guglielmo, Thomas A. , ''White on Arrival: Italians, Race, Color, and Power in Chicago'', 1890-1945, 2003, ISBN 0-19-515543-2
*Hannaford, Ivan, ''Race: The History of an Idea in the West'' (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University, 1996)
* Ignatiev, Noel, ''How the Irish Became White'', Routledge, 1996, ISBN 0-415-91825-1.
* Jackson, F. L. C. (2004). Book chapter: ''[http://cshd.tamu.edu/pdfFiles/jackson.pdf Human genetic variation and health: new assessment approaches based on ethnogenetic layering]'' ''British Medical Bulletin 2004; 69: 215–235'' DOI: 10.1093/bmb/ldh012. Retrieved 29 December 2006.
* Jacobson, Matthew Frye, ''Whiteness of a Different Color: European Immigrants and the Alchemy of Race'', Harvard, 1999, ISBN 0-674-95191-3.
* Oppenheimer, Stephen (2006). ''The Origins of the British: A Genetic Detective Story''. Constable and Robinson Ltd., London. ISBN 978-1-84529-185-7.
*Rosenberg NA, Mahajan S, Ramachandran S, Zhao C, Pritchard JK, et al. (2005) ''Clines, Clusters, and the Effect of Study Design on the Inference of Human Population Structure. PLoS Genet'' ''1(6):'' e70 {{doi|10.1371/journal.pgen.0010070}}
*Rosenberg NA, Pritchard JK, Weber JL, Cann HM, Kidd KK, et al. (2002) ''Genetic structure of human populations. Science'' ''298:'' 2381–2385.[http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/5602/2381 Abstract]
*Segal, Daniel A. , ''[http://www.anthrosource.net/doi/abs/10.1525/ae.2002.29.2.470 review of Racial Situations: Class Predicaments of Whiteness in Detroit]'' [[American Ethnological Society|American Ethnologist]] May 2002, Vol. 29, No. 2, pp. 470-473 doi:10.1525/ae.2002.29.2.470
*Smedley, Audrey, ''Race in North America: Origin and Evolution of a Worldview,'' 2nd ed. (Boulder: Westview, 1999).
* Sweet, Frank W. , ''Legal History of the Color Line: The Rise and Triumph of the One-Drop Rule'', Backintyme, 2005, ISBN 0-939479-23-0.
*Tang, Hua., Tom Quertermous, Beatriz Rodriguez, Sharon L. R. Kardia, Xiaofeng Zhu, Andrew Brown,7 James S. Pankow,8 Michael A. Province,9 Steven C. Hunt, Eric Boerwinkle, Nicholas J. Schork, and Neil J. Risch (2005) ''Genetic Structure, Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, and Confounding in Case-Control Association Studies Am. J. Hum. Genet.'' '''76:'''268–275.
* "The United Independent Compensatory Code/System/Concept" A textbook/workbook for thought, speech and/or action for victims of racism (White supremacy) Neely Fuller Jr. 1984

{{White people}}

[[Category:Race]]
[[Category:Sociology]]

[[bg:Бяла раса]]
[[cs:Bílá rasa]]
[[de:Europid]]
[[et:Europiidne rass]]
[[es:Blanco (persona)]]
[[fa:سفیدپوست]]
[[fr:Race blanche]]
[[ko:백인]]
[[he:האדם הלבן]]
[[ja:コーカソイド]]
[[pl:Biała rasa człowieka]]
[[pt:Caucasiano]]
[[ru:Белые люди]]
[[fi:Europidi]]
[[zh:白人]]

Ethnic pornography

2009-04-04T08:13:00Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Portrayal in pornography */ Did you get that from the U.S. department of Pornfilms?

{{Refimprove|date=January 2008}}
'''Ethnicity''' plays a prominent role in '''pornography'''. Distinct genres of [[pornography]] focus on [[pornographic actor|performers]] of specific [[ethnic groups]], or on the depiction of [[miscegenation|interracial sexual activity]]. Ethnic pornography typically employs [[ethnic stereotype|ethnic and racial stereotypes]] in its depiction of performers.<ref name="LukeFord1999">{{cite web |url=http://www.lukeisback.com/essays/essays/racism.htm |title=Racism |accessdate=2008-01-18 |author=[[Luke Ford]] |date=1999 |publisher=LukeIsBack.com}}</ref>

Although ethnic pornography has always been a genre of pornography, its popularity grew considerably during the 1980s in print and [[VHS]] media and in the 1990s with the rise of the Internet.{{Fact|date=January 2009}} In the 2000s it has become a prominent aspect of pornography and is now considered mainstream in the industry.{{Fact|date=January 2009}}

==Ethnic pornography==
Ethnic pornography intended for a general audience typically features members of significant minority ethnic groups, particularly those seen as [[exoticism|exotic]]. Such people may be seen as sexually unattainable and therefore mysterious and exciting, or as promiscuous or sexually biddable. A viewer may be curious about what people of different ethnic groups look like with their clothes off, or in the visual contrast between people of different [[Race (classification of human beings)|races]]. Ethnic pornography may provide extra titillation by breaking [[taboo]]s regarding socially unacceptable ethnic or racial stereotypes, [[miscegenation|interracial sex]], or old [[anti-miscegenation laws]].

==Portrayal in pornography==
{{see also|Stereotypes of African Americans|Stereotypes of Hispanic and Latino Americans|Stereotypes of Asians|Stereotypes of white people}}

Ethnic pornography frequently depicts performers using ethnic and racial stereotypes. With few exceptions, members of each race are portrayed as having a high [[sex drive]]. Racial jokes relating to interracial married couples are also popular.

; [[Asian people|Asian]] women: Sometimes portrayed as sexually submissive. Western film and [[Western literature|literature]] has promoted stereotypes of Asian women, such as depicting Asian women as cunning and seductive "[[Dragon Lady (stereotype)|Dragon Ladies]]",<ref>{{cite book |last=Tong |first=Benson |title=Unsubmissive Women: Chinese Prostitutes in Nineteenth-Century San Francisco |year=1994 |publisher=[[University of Oklahoma Press]] |location=Norman, Okla. |isbn=0806126531 }}</ref> as servile "Lotus Blossom Babies", "China dolls", "[[Geisha|Geisha girls]]", [[war brides]], or prostitutes.<ref>{{cite book |last=Tajima |first=R. |editor=Asian Women United of California |title=Making waves: An anthology of writings by and about Asian American women |date=1989-06-28 |publisher=[[Beacon Press]] |location=Boston |isbn= 0807059056|pages=308–17 |chapter=Lotus Blossoms Don't Bleed: Images of Asian Women }}</ref> [[Japanese media]] have also at times sensationalistically promoted the stereotype of Japanese women overseas as "[[yellow cab (stereotype)|yellow cabs]]".<ref>{{cite book |last=Ma |first=Karen |title=The Modern Madame Butterfly: Fantasy and Reality in Japanese Cross-Cultural Relationships |year=1996 |publisher=[[Tuttle Publishing]] |location=North Clarendon, Vt. |isbn=0804820414 }}</ref>
; [[Black people|Black Africans]]: The penis size of Black men is an over-emphasized stereotype in pornography.<ref name="LukeFord1999"/>
; [[Latino (demonym)|Latin]]s/[[Hispanic]]s: Many Latin performers are categorized by their race instead of ethnicity, and are described as [[White Hispanic|white]], [[Afro Latin American|black]], [[mestizo]] or [[mulatto]], or [[Indigenous peoples of the Americas|Native American]]. Thus, Latin performers of all races, is also interracial pornography, such as a ''[[Puerto Rican people|White Puerto Rican]] ([[Carmen Luvana]]) or an [[Afro-Cuban]]''.{{Fact|date=March 2009}}

==Interracial pornography==

In the past, some of American pornography's leading white actresses were allegedly warned to avoid African-Americans, both on-screen and in their personal lives. One rationale was the purportedly widespread belief that appearing in interracial pornography would ruin a white performer's career, although some observers have said that there is no evidence that this is true.<ref name="LukeFord1999"/> ''[[AVN (magazine)|Adult Video News]]'' critic Sheldon Ranz wrote in 1997 that "we keep hearing a lot about 'the powers that be' that tell white women that it's not in their 'interest' to work with blacks. Is there any proof that [[Ginger Lynn|Ginger [Lynn]]]'s scene with Tony El-Lay in ''Undressed Rehearsal'' hurt her career? [[Nina Hartley]] still gets lots of bookings in [[Southern United States|Southern]] [[strip club]]s, especially [[Texas]], even though she is an avowed interracialist."<ref>{{cite newsgroup |title=Stars Who Refuse Interracial Scenes |first=Sheldon|last=Ranz |date=1997-04-05 |newsgroup=rec.arts.movies.erotica |url=http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.movies.erotica/msg/62a4233ee98f905a |accessdate= 2007-07-06}}</ref>

In recent years, interracial films have increased in popularity. Many of these films still include racial stereotypes, but the segregation of actors by race has diminished considerably.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.sextelevision.net/archives/episodeArchivesDisplay.asp?episodeID=179&segmentID=472&seasonID=8 |title=Black/White: Sex, Race & Profit |accessdate=2007-07-19 |date=2006-09-09 |publisher=[[SexTV]]}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.papermag.com/blogs/2007/06/becky_the_pussycats_savanna_sa.php |title=Savanna Samson: Becky & the Pussycats Debut Interview |accessdate=2007-07-19 |first=Rebecca |last=Carroll |date=2007-06-04 |publisher=PaperMag.com |quote=So many girls [in the industry] said, 'Oh you can't be with [a black man] it's gonna ruin your career.' I think that's insane. I love black men, so I was really insistent about being on camera in an interracial [situation] because I didn't want to be part of that mentality. }}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.xfanz.com/news/81907 |title=Lex Steele Talks God on BET |accessdate=2007-07-19 |first=Joanne |last=Cachapero |date=2007-07-15 |publisher=[http://www.xfanz.com Xfanz]}}</ref> Interracial films that include black men and white women together have a majority audience of white male viewers,<ref>{{Citation|author=Poulson-Bryant, Scott|date=2006|title=Hung: A Meditation on the Measure of Black Men in America| page=139|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=fQFdAAAACAAJ&dq=Scott+Poulson+Bryant&source=gbs_book_other_versions_r&cad=1_1|accessdate=10 Jan 2009}}</ref> which has led some people within the porn industry to speculate that the largest orders for interracial porn comes from the Southern U.S.<ref>{{Citation|author=Nathan, Debbie|date=2007|title=Pornography|page=30|url=http://books.google.com/books?lr=&id=WzYEAQAAIAAJ&dq=%22white+men%22+and+%22interracial+porn%22+and+%22black+men%22&q=%22white+men%22+and+%22interracial+porn%22+and+%22black+men%22&pgis=1|accessdate=10 Jan 2009}}</ref>

==Racial fetishism==
In academic discourse, '''racial fetishism''' is a [[postcolonialist]] term found in the writings of authors such as [[Homi Bhabha]], [[Anne McClintock]] and [[Kobena Mercer]]. The term combines elements of the Freudian psychoanalytic fetish and the Marxist commodity fetish, and is used in the context of British and French colonialism and imperialism and their aftereffects. The term has as its origins [[Frantz Fanon]]'s '''epidermal schema''' and [[Edward Said]]'s ''Orientalism''.<ref name=Bhabha/><ref>{{cite book
| first = Anne
| last = McClintock
| year = 1995
| title = Imperial Leather: Race Gender and Sexuality in the Colonial Contest
| publisher = Routledge
| location = New York:
}}</ref><ref>{{cite book
| first = Kobena
| last = Mercer
| year = 1993
| title = Fetishism as Cultural Discourse
| chapter = Reading Racial Fetishism: the Photographs of Robert Mapplethorpe
| editor = Apter, Emily and Pietz William
| publisher = Cornell UP
| location = Ithaca
}}</ref><ref>{{cite book
| first = Frantz
| last = Fanon
| year = 1967
| title = Black Skin, White Masks
| editor = transl. Charles Lam Markmann
| publisher = Grove Press
| location = New York
}}</ref>

[[Homi Bhabha]] defined the idea of a racial fetish in contrast to the idea of the [[Freud]]ian sexual fetish which he describes a denial of difference, where the male sees the female as a castrated male, seeing missing parts rather than a different anatomy. Similar to Freud's idea of a fetish, Bhabha defines racial fetish to be a fixation on other races being not different, but lesser or "mutilated" versions of the white male.<ref name=Bhabha>{{cite journal
| first = Homi K.
| last = Bhabha
| year = 1983
| month = June
| title = The Other Question: Difference, Discrimination and the Discourses of Colonialism
| journal = Screen
| volume = 24
| issue = 6
| pages = 18–36
}}</ref>

==Notables==
<center>
<gallery caption="Notable Pornstars by Ethnicity" heights="120px" perrow="4">
Image:Mika Tan at AVN 2005 (2).jpg|[[Mika Tan]] ([[Asian people|Asian]])
Image:Sunny_Leone_1.jpg|[[Sunny Leone]] ([[India]]n)
Image:Bobbistarr-avn2007.jpg|[[Bobbi Starr]] ([[White people|White]]/[[Europe]]an)
Image:Tiffany Taylor (porn star).JPG|[[Tiffany Taylor (porn star)|Tiffany Taylor]] ([[French people|French]]/[[South Asia])
Image:Avyleeroth-avn2007.jpg|[[Avy Lee Roth]] ([[Spanish people|Spanish]]/[[Europe]]an)
Image:Marie Luv, September 2006, 2.JPG|[[Marie Luv]] ([[African American]]/[[Black people|Black]])
Image:AN Carmen Luvana 1.jpg|[[Carmen Luvana]] ([[Puerto Rican people|Puerto Rican]]/[[Europe]]an)
Image:AN Katsumi 1.jpg|[[Katsuni]] ([[Eurasian (mixed ancestry)|Eurasian]])
</gallery>
</center>

== See also ==
* [[Asian fetish]]
* [[List of African-American porn stars]]
* [[List of Asian porn stars]]
* [[List of Hispanic porn stars]]
* [[Pornography by region]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
* [[Luke Ford]], [http://www.lukeisback.com/essays/essays/racism.htm Racism], [http://www.lukeisback.com LukeIsBack.com], 1999–2005.
* {{cite web|url=http://archive.salon.com/sex/feature/2002/02/11/frontline/index.html|title=American Porn|last=Taylor|first=Charles |date=2002-02-11|publisher=Salon.com|accessdate=2008-07-16}}
* {{cite web|url=http://www.klixxx.com/archive/gaymeltingpot.shtml|title=Gay Melting Pot|last=Palmer|first=Brandon|publisher=Klixxx Magazine|accessdate=2008-07-16}}
* Mireille Miller-Young, [http://www.socolar.com/ab.aspx?aid=5004486&vid=64890# Hardcore Desire: Black Women Laboring in Porn – Is It Just Another Job?] {{Dead link|date=July 2008}}, ''[[ColorLines Magazine|Colorlines Magazine: Race, Action, Culture]]'', Winter 2005.
* Justin Quirk, "The New Porn Apartheid", ''[[Arena (magazine)|Arena]]'', February 2006 ([http://www.lukeisback.com/images/images/pnaarena11oj.jpg page 1], [http://www.lukeisback.com/images/images/pnaarena20tt.jpg page 2], [http://www.lukeisback.com/images/images/pnaarena33qd.jpg page 3]).
* {{cite web|url=http://sugarbank.com/2006/03/16/the-new-porn-apartheid-luke-fords-rebuttal-rebutted|title=The New Porn Apartheid – Luke Ford’s Rebuttal Rebutted|last=Sugar|first=Sam|date=2006-03-16|publisher=SugarBank|accessdate=2008-07-16}}
* {{cite web|url=http://xbiz.com/articles/14948/interracial|title=Ethnic Episodes|last=Cachapero|first=Joanne|date=2006-05-15|publisher=Xbiz|accessdate=2008-07-16}}
* {{cite web|url=http://web.archive.org/web/20070515005610/http://www.eyeonadult.com/features/article1422.html|title=Why Interracial Porn is Stupid and So are You (For Watching It)|last=McGowan|first=Scott|date=2007-04-11|publisher=EyeOnAdult.com|accessdate=2008-07-16}}
* {{cite web|url=http://fleshbot.com/sex/uncomfortablepornstereotypes/why-interracial-porn-is-stupid-and-why-we-agree-257538.php|title="Why Interracial Porn is Stupid" (And Why We Agree)|date=2007-05-03|work=Uncomfortablepornstereotypes|publisher=Fleshbot|accessdate=2008-07-16}}
*{{cite web |url=http://nsrc.sfsu.edu/MagArticle.cfm?Article=564 |title=On Asian American Sexual Politics |accessdate=2008-01-18 |first=Darrell Y. |last=Hamamoto |date=2006 |publisher=''[[National Sexuality Resource Center|American Sexuality]]''}}

{{Sex fetish}}

[[Category:Pornographic sub-genres]]
[[Category:Sociology]]
[[Category:Pornography]]
[[Category:Ethnicity]]
[[Category:Stereotypes]]
[[Category:Multiracial affairs]]
[[Category:Postcolonialism]]
[[Category:Sexual fetishism]]

[[es:Pornografía interracial]]
[[fr:Interracial]]
[[pt:Sexo inter-racial]]

Talk:Aryan

2009-04-02T06:55:32Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Rewritten? */ new section

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== Nazi legal definition of "Aryan" ==

I am replacing this sentence: ''"In Nazi Germany the principal legal meaning of "Aryan" was "non-Jewish".''" since it is false and not supported by the source given (a book of Campt). The basis for the claim is the quoted portion of 1933 Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service which said "an individual descended from a non-Aryan (in particular Jewish parents or grandparents) where at least one non-Aryan parent or grandparent was present. This is particularly the case where one parent or grandparent belonged to the Jewish religion." (Campt, p143). However, the conclusion drawn here does not follow. The writers of the law wanted to ''emphasise'' the non-Aryan nature of Jews (in accordance with their obsession) but don't seek to exclude others. That's why it says "in particular". Lest this analysis be called Original Research, I hasten to add that Campt has the same opinion: "These laws were directed not only at Jews but at all individuals of alien blood...and alien races...as well as "racially less valuable" members of the German population."(same page) Campt's special interest (as the title of her book indicates) is black people and their treatment as non-Aryans by the Nazis occupies the book from cover to cover. So our sentence is not right. I hope my replacement is better. [[User:McKay|McKay]] ([[User talk:McKay|talk]]) 04:43, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

(Continuing) This issue is discussed in "Racial Purity Laws in the United States and Nazi Germany: The Targeting Process", Judy Scales-Trent, ''Human Rights Quarterly'', Vol. 23, No. 2 (May, 2001), pp. 259-307. There we find another translation of the Nazi law: "descent from non-Aryan, and especially Jewish, parents or grandparents, even though only one of the parents or grandparents was of the Jewish religion." The "and especially Jewish" plainly indicates that the definition is not restricted to Jews. As Scales-Trent writes later (p295), "Also, since Africans and Afro-Germans were considered 'non-Aryans,' all legislation which defined and limited the rights of the group 'non-Aryans,' similarly limited their rights." [[User:McKay|McKay]] ([[User talk:McKay|talk]]) 05:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

:The sentence was not false. It clearly stated that the ''principal'' meaning was non-Jew, which is fully supported by the quotation "''in particular Jewish'' parents". In fact the word Aryan caused problems precicely because there was no way of defining an "Aryan" in conformity with Nazi intention (if taken literally it would mean that someone of, say, Basque descent, should be excluded, while a dark-skinned person of Indian descent could have full citizenship). The word Aryan was not used in later legislation for just this reason, and part of that was to be sure that all non-white peoples would be excluded from full citizenship. At no point did the sentence state that no groups other than Jews were not considered to be Aryan. It said what is true - that the Nazis primarily directed the law at Jews; they were the only group mentioned specifically. Aryanization of Nazi-controlled Europe meant getting rid of Jews. The terms Aryanised and Jew-Free (Judenfrei) were used interchangably. The black population of Central Europe was miniscule. It was not an issue for the Nazis. They only adopted the word Aryan because it was a concept that explicitly excluded Jews, as 'Semites'. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 07:39, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

:First of all, the NS definition is missing from the 20th century section! Its only indirectly alluded to there, and -- regardless of what exactly Campt etc said -- a mention in the lead is not an adequate substitute.
:Secondly, precision is all very well and good, but with a little more circumspection please! The new sentence is out of context with respect to the preceding sentences, it does not follow to the next, and the paragraph to which the new sentence was added is now no longer coherent.
:Third, because the definition of "non-Aryan" does not progress towards the conclusion, it is pretty much besides the point. The singular relevance of NS race theory is that the resulting pogroms ultimately led to the vilification of the word. In the lead, those pogroms can be adequately summarized with the term "<nowiki>[[Aryanization]]</nowiki> programs". In the lead, it is not necessary or meaningful to qualify (leave alone qualify ''exactly'') who the subjects of those pogroms were. -- [[User:Fullstop|Fullstop]] ([[User talk:Fullstop|talk]]) 17:01, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
:: I don't disagree with most of what you wrote here. But my main concern is that this is an article about the concept "Aryan", not about the Nazi persecution of the Jews. So while it would be fine to note that the Nazis used the charge "non-Aryan" first and foremost as a stick to beat Jews with, it would not be fine to ignore the question of who was an Aryan according to Nazi racial theory. No self-respecting Nazi would have regarded an African, or (with rare exceptions) an East Asian or a Slav as an Aryan, but at the moment this information is missing from the article. In the case of Slavs, this had fatal consequences for countless thousands, so it isn't just an academic point. This suggests that my replacement sentence "''In Nazi Germany the classification of peoples as Aryan or not was most emphatically directed towards the exclusion of Jews.''" still needs work. [[User:McKay|McKay]] ([[User talk:McKay|talk]]) 00:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Slavs ''were'' Aryan and were perceived as such by Nazis. [[Alfred Rosenberg]] repeatedly stressed this. The Nazis used the word in their accounts of the area beyond the Ghetto (the 'Aryan district'). 'Aryan identification papers' included documents saying that you were a Pole, Ukrainian, etc. Yes, most Nazis thought that Slavs were inferior, and to be subjected to Germans, but that's quite quite different from saying they were not Aryan. Overwhelmingly, Aryan meant not-Jewish. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 08:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
:::I was wrong about Slavs. They were regarded as an Aryan race that had become corrupted and mongrelised (by the non-Aryan Mongols, among others). Similarly for Gypsies. If by "overwhelmingly" you mean "overwhelmingly in practice", I can agree. The issue seems to be the theory versus the application of the theory. Incidentally Yehuda Bauer agrees with you, so you are in good company :). [[User:McKay|McKay]] ([[User talk:McKay|talk]]) 09:09, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Between the two of you, you have said enough about 'Nazi legal definition of "Aryan"' to write a whole article on it. So, please do everyone a favor and churn out a paragraph on it in the '20th century' section? Please split those hairs in prose !!! -- [[User:Fullstop|Fullstop]] ([[User talk:Fullstop|talk]]) 09:27, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
: I just noticed that there is sort of an article about it: [[Racial policy of Nazi Germany]]. [[User:McKay|McKay]] ([[User talk:McKay|talk]]) 13:12, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
::Yea, and it's sort of a mess. [[User:Paul Barlow|Paul B]] ([[User talk:Paul Barlow|talk]]) 13:42, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
:: But wait, there's more: [[Nazism and race]], [[Aryan_race]]. [[User:McKay|McKay]] ([[User talk:McKay|talk]]) 14:03, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== Rewritten? ==

This article was recently rewritten, and a great deal of content has been removed. What happened??? There was no discussion on any of the talk pages at all (although by saying this, it is inevitable that someone will find some huge past discussion out of nowhere). Before it was a very thorough article about all aspects of the term "Aryan", but now it's really just focused on the recent Nazi connotation. Also, the rewritten version is kind of soapboxed.

What happened? [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 06:55, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism

2009-03-30T07:42:55Z

Parthian Scribe: more

<noinclude>[[Category: Wikipedia blocking]][[Category: Wikipedia noticeboards]]{{Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism/Header}}
{{Floatinglink|Administrator instructions|Administrator instructions}}
__NEWSECTIONLINK__

{{noadminbacklog}}

== Alerts ==
</noinclude>
{{Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism/TB2}}

=== User-reported ===

*{{IPvandal|12.105.154.66}} - vandalism after final warning. This ip won't stop vandalising (mostly the ana kasparian article) after numerous warnings and has yet to be blocked, and probably doesn't know that he can be blocked on wikipedia. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 07:41, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
:Hahahahaha, it looks like a workplace ip. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 07:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
*{{vandal|Manoffewwords}} - vandalism after final warning, actions evidently indicate a vandalism-only account [[User:Mandarax|MANdARAX]] '''•''' [[User talk:Mandarax|XAЯAbИAM]] 07:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism

2009-03-30T07:41:03Z

Parthian Scribe: Reporting 12.105.154.66. (TW)

User talk:Parthian Scribe

2009-03-30T07:37:40Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Kim Kardiashian and Ana Kasparian */ reply

{{wikibreak|[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]]| on a future date}}
<div class="boilerplate metadata" id="Response location" align="left" style="{{divstyleyellow}}">I will reply to any comments posted here–with the exception of messages from templates–on this page. Similarly, I will watch your talk page for a reply after I comment there. Thanks.</div>
== Welcome! ==

Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, and [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome]] to Wikipedia! Thank you for [[Special:Contributions/{{BASEPAGENAME}}|your contributions]]{{#if:|, especially what you did for [[:{{{art}}}]]}}. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Signatures|sign]] your messages on [[Wikipedia:talk page|discussion page]]s using four [[tilde]]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]], ask me on {{#if:|[[user talk:{{{1}}}|my talk page]]|my talk page}}, or ask your question on this page and then place <code><nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki></code> before the question. Again, welcome!  --[[User:Wikiacc|Wikiacc]] ([[User talk:Wikiacc|¶]]) 17:41, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks, that was nice.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] ([[User talk:Parthian Scribe#top|talk]]) 17:59, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

== Talkback! ==

{{tb|WP:TW|How do you use it?|tp=1}}
[[User:Ioeth|Ioeth]] ([[User_talk:Ioeth|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Ioeth|contribs]] [[WP:FRIENDLY|friendly]]) 15:55, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
:Okay, I did.--[[User talk:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 06:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

== Replied to your message ==

Just wanted to let you know I replied to your message at [[Talk:Edgar Allan Poe in popular culture]]. I hope you'll reconsider your addition of the reference to Zelda based on the information I've provided. --[[User:Midnightdreary|Midnightdreary]] ([[User talk:Midnightdreary|talk]]) 11:58, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, you made a very good point, I guess I'll change it.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] ([[User talk:Parthian Scribe#top|talk]]) 23:27, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

== Category:Converts from Judaism ==

Hey there, I see you're pretty new to this, so I won't be mean. :) When you take a category to CFD for deletion or renaming, you also have to "tag" the category page. In this case, you need to post the ''renaming template'', using <nowiki>{{subst:cfr|proposed name}}</nowiki>. Also, in the future, be careful to use the right heading when you set up the discussion section on the CFD page -- for some reason, you "re-used" the heading from the section right below yours. Not to worry, I've already taken care of that, so all you have to do is post that ''renaming template''. Regards, [[User:Cgingold|Cgingold]] ([[User talk:Cgingold|talk]]) 05:45, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks --[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] ([[User talk:Parthian Scribe#top|talk]]) 06:03, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

==Scarlett Johansson==
Is there a source that she is a Christian? The below interview doesn't say that, celebrating "little bit of both" (the line you quoted) doesn't necessarily make somebody a Christian:

http://www.bangitout.com/reviews112.html

:"Q: I read that your mother is Jewish and your father is Danish?
:A: Yes.
:Q: With the holiday season coming up, how do you plan on celebrating?
:A: I'm just going to be with my family.
:Q: But what do you celebrate, more Christmas or more Chanukah?
:A: A little of both."

[[User:All Hallow's Wraith|All Hallow's Wraith]] ([[User talk:All Hallow's Wraith|talk]]) 22:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
:Yes, I was just looking at the page. Sorry about that.--[[User talk:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 22:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

== Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/McGill Street ==

The link from the disambiguation page [[McGill Street]] to [[McGill Street (Vancouver)]] is now blue. You may want to revisit [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/McGill Street]]. -- [[User:Eastmain|Eastmain]] ([[User talk:Eastmain|talk]]) 16:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
:Seeing that there is some use to the page now, I withdrew the AFD nomination.--[[User talk:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 20:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

== Your rollback request ==

Hello Parthian Scribe, I have granted your account rollback in accordance with your request. Please remember that rollback should be used to revert vandalism, and that misuse of the tool, either by reverting good-faith edits or reverting-warring with other users, can lead to its removal. For practice, you may wish to review [[Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback]]. Good luck. [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 22:01, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the ''very'' quick response!--[[User talk:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 22:01, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
::You're welcome! [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 22:02, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

== Oh it's fine... ==

Happened to me this morning, it's all good [[User:Wysprgr2005|Wysprgr2005]] ([[User talk:Wysprgr2005|talk]]) 23:38, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

== October 2008 ==

[[Image:Information.png|25px]] Welcome to Wikipedia. The [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalena+de+Kino?diff=247515998 recent edit] you made to [[:Magdalena de Kino]] has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]] for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, ensure that you provide an informative [[Help:Edit summary|edit summary]]. You may also wish to read the [[Wikipedia:Introduction|introduction to editing]]. Thank you.  [[User:Wysprgr2005|Wysprgr2005]] ([[User talk:Wysprgr2005|talk]]) 02:24, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:Hello again, you left a warning on my talk page for a perfectly legitimate edit I made [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magdalena_de_Kino&diff=prev&oldid=247515998]. What I was doing was changing a hyphen to a dash (read over [[WP:DASH]]) along with some automatic fixes the [[WP:AWB|AutoWiki Browser]] threw in. There is no reason the edit should have been reverted, and certainly no reason I should have received a vandalism warning on my talk page. Can you please review your edits ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magdalena%2Bde%2BKino&diff=next&oldid=247515998], and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Parthian_Scribe&diff=247516036&oldid=247488626]), and then decide whether or not they were necessary? Thank you.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 02:37, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

== Sorry ==

Been really hectic, Huggle has it's issues. Not sure how to unwarn you... [[User:Wysprgr2005|Wysprgr2005]] ([[User talk:Wysprgr2005|talk]]) 02:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
:Don't worry about it, if you want to unwarn me, you can just remove the section or undo your revision (I think), but it's not necessary. Have a nice day :) [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 02:53, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

[[Image:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px]] This is the '''only warning''' you will receive for your disruptive edits. If you [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia again{{#if:Barack Obama|, as you did to [[:Barack Obama]]}}, you '''will''' be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|}} [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] [[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]] 05:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

:I think you may have a misunderstanding, Obama's father was Kenyan; which is not the same thing as an "African-American" (who are descended primarily from West Africa. Even if the edit I made was false, it certainly did not deserve a warning message, especially one with no explanation of ''what'' I did that was wrong. For future reference, the edit I made was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=prev&oldid=249794146].--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 05:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

== Blocked for vandalism of Wikipedia ==

<div class="user-block"> [[Image:Stop x nuvola with clock.svg|40px|left]] {{#if:|You have been '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing for a period of '''time'''|You have been '''temporarily [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]]''' from editing}} in accordance with [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|Wikipedia's blocking policy]] for {{#if:|'''reason'''|[[Wikipedia:Vandalism|abuse of editing privileges]]}}. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|make constructive contributions]]. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may [[Wikipedia:Appealing a block|contest the block]] by adding the text <nowiki>{{</nowiki>unblock|''your reason here''<nowiki>}}</nowiki> below, but you should read our [[Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks|guide to appealing blocks]] first. {{#if:|[[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] [[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]] 05:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)}}</div> [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] [[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]] 05:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

== Unblock request for unjust block ==

{| width="75%" align="center" class="notice noprint" style="background: none; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 0.5em; margin: 0.5em auto;"
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| style="padding: 0.1em" |

'''Your request to be unblocked''' has been '''granted''' for the following reason(s):
 False positive. The article was being vandalized massively during these hours after the elections results and you got caught in the cross fire. Unblocked. My apologies.

''Request handled by:'' [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] [[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]] 19:57, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

|}

:::I would like to note that I was only warned once by "Jossi", and it was for [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=prev&oldid=249794146]. I was immediately ''blocked'' for reverting his edit [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=prev&oldid=249794146]; giving an explanation on my talk page. This user was ''very'' unclear about why he warned and blocked me, he never spoke to me directly which I found offensive, and he was too quick to block; I never "vandalized" Wikipedia, and the edit I made was (I believe) constructive to Wikipedia. Rather than posting a message on my talk page so we could settle our minor disagreement, he just blocked me. I felt violated.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 06:34, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

::I am reviewing your block now - at a glance, the block does seem somewhat harsh to me; however, I am removing your access to the rollback tool. That tool is intended for blatant vandalism only, and cannot be used for edit warring. Once your block is lifted or expires, you may request re-granting of this tool after some time to me directly or at [[WP:RFPERM]]. [[User:Hersfold|'''''Hersfold''''']] ([[User:Hersfold/t|t]]/[[User:Hersfold/a|a]]/[[Special:Contributions/Hersfold|c]]) 06:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you for taking my request into consideration. Sorry about the rollback thing though, I just used it to revert one edit because it was quicker than pressing the undo button; I assure you, I will not make this mistake again in the future. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 06:51, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
::::I also would say that from the surface, ''blocking'' you was rather petty and childish. Revoking rollback? OK. Blocking you? no. I don't know if there is something I'm missing, but it seems to me that Jossi's block was merely an "I'll show you" because you reverted him. I'll ask him what is going on. [[User:J.delanoy|J'''.'''delanoy]][[User Talk:J.delanoy|gabs]][[Special:Contributions/J.delanoy|adds]] 17:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the unblock Jossi, I realize it must have been very difficult to patrol that article at such a restless time. I also apologize for going a bit over the top with a lot of the things I said my unblock request, I shouldn't have been so enraged for something that was simply a mistake. Again, thanks for the unblock, but my block log shows me as being unblocked, yet somehow I am still unable to edit. I get a message saying "Autoblocked because your IP address was recently used by "Parthian Scribe". The reason given for Parthian Scribe's block is: "Vandalism".". I am puzzled as to why I am still getting this message because both my account and my IP address are "unblocked" according to the block log. Does anyone know why this is so? Thanks. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 00:22, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
::It looks like the autoblock was not removed when you were unblocked, as it is still visible in [[Special:IPBlockList]]. I assume the message [[MediaWiki:Autoblockedtext]] (or something similar) shows when you try to edit; the instructions are in the "rectifying an autoblock" section (which you may need to click "show" on). —[[User talk:Snigbrook|Snigbrook]] 00:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the information, Snigbrook, I'm going to place the request on my page.--[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 01:03, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

{{tlx|unblock-auto|75.164.111.197|[[Wikipedia:Autoblock|Autoblocked]] because your IP address was recently used by "[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]]". The reason given for Parthian Scribe's block is: "[[WP:Vandalism|Vandalism]]", even though the block has since been lifted (see [[User_talk:Parthian_Scribe|talk page]]).|Jossi|4=1201990}}
:Unblocked. [[user:east718|<big style="color:#900">east718</big>]] // [[user talk:east718#top|talk]] // [[special:emailuser/east718|email]] // 01:07, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== Changes to [[Template:Arabs]] ==
I don't need luck finding them, I've seen plenty of such studies. Even Jews have been shown to be closer related to Kurds, who are Iranian speakers, than to Arabs, so there you have it. Linguistics don't mean much when it comes to genetics. Here's some stuff I don't know if you can access: [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11380939?dopt=Abstract][http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1274378] and a map by Cavalli Sforza: [http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ar20iranian20genetic20cyc3.gif] [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 17:52, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:I didn't find when where exactly it said Kurds are more closely related to Arabs (but then again, I only skimmed over the second link). I think at this point you should start a discussion about this on the talk page of [[Arabs]] or [[Template:Arabs]] to see if a larger consensus could be reached. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 22:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== Re: Rollback ==

No. It's good to see that the block was, after all, a mistake, however that doesn't change the fact that you misused rollback. When you accepted the tool the first time, you made the same promise (or at least accepted those conditions of its use). When I said you could re-request the tool, I meant after a few weeks, (hence "after some time" in my original post). You are welcome to request it at [[WP:RFPERM]] if you're not satisfied with this, but I will be happy to take another look at this after a couple weeks if you don't mind waiting that long. [[User:Hersfold|'''''Hersfold''''']] ([[User:Hersfold/t|t]]/[[User:Hersfold/a|a]]/[[Special:Contributions/Hersfold|c]]) 20:41, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
:Oops, I must have missed the "after some time" part, sorry about that. However, after reading [[Help:Reverting#Rollback]] it says ''it's polite to leave an explanation on the article talk page or on the talk page of the user whose edit(s) you reverted''. While I did not leave a comment on the other user's talk page or the article's talk page, I ''did'' leave an explanation to the revert on my own talkpage--where the other user had commented; since that's where the discussion previously existed. Also access to rollback rights for me was removed because of "edit warring with rollback"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=User%3AParthian+Scribe&year=&month=-1] however, [[WP:EDITWAR]] describes edit warring as "when individual editors or groups of editors ''repeatedly'' revert each other's edits"; I only reverted one edit, I'm not sure whether or not you saw that since the Obama article was flooded with edits at that time. But, I don't mind waiting another couple of weeks to get back rollback--it's not that big of a deal. Thanks. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 22:03, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== [[WP:ACC]] ==

[[Image:Pictogram voting support.svg|100px|left]] Thank you for applying to access the account creation tool. I have approved your request. You may now access the tool [http://stable.toolserver.org/acc/acc.php here]. Before you do so, please read the tool's [[WP:ACC/G|guide]] to familiarize yourself with the process. You may also want to join [irc://irc.freenode.org/wikipedia-en-accounts #wikipedia-en-accounts] on irc and/or the [https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/accounts-enwiki-l mailing list]. Keep in mind that the ACC tool is a powerful program, and misuse may result in your access being suspended by a tool administrator. Don't hesitate to get in touch with me if you have any questions. Thank you for your participating in the account creation process. '''[[User:Addshore|·Add§hore·]]''' [[User_talk:Addshore|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Addshore|Cont]] 22:27, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

== Persian people ==

Dear Parthian Scribe, [[Persian people]] article is general. As you know persons like Rumi, Khwarezmi and ... didn't live in present bounderies of Iran, but they were called "Persian". Also "Persian" in English mostly means "Iranian" and not exclusively a "Persian-speaker", and Persian-speakers of Iran don't call themselves "Parsi". In other words the present "Persian people" article is not about a special ethnic group. I humbly think that you should improve the infobox on [[Persian-speakers of Iran]] for Iranian nationals who speak Persian whether inside or outside Iran. These matters has been discussed previously in [[Talk:Persian_people]]. Please if you have a counter argument, discuss it there.--[[User:Raayen|Raayen]] ([[User talk:Raayen|talk]]) 03:38, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
:Oh, I didn't realize there was previously a discussion about this topic. I apologize. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 04:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

== DYK for Lebanese Navy SEALs Regiment ==

{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
| On [[13 November]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Lebanese Navy SEALs Regiment]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{7}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{8}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{9}}}]]'''''}}, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} [[User:Gatoclass|Gatoclass]] ([[User talk:Gatoclass|talk]]) 01:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Sneath Glass Company ==
Dear Parthian Scribe,
I'm working on the 90%. I got it from a booklet called "The Glass Business and the Crimmels" by Clyde Crimmel II, on page 5. However, I have asked my source (a 75-year-old) for more proof. His reply so far is that Sneath has about 30 patents relating to kitchen and refrigerator ware. Here are the first two he listed: 1. Patent # 1,915,647 dated June 27, 1933, for the defroster tray that fit under the ice cube trays for defrosting the refrigerator
2. Patent # 1,915,849 dated June 27, 1933 - for refrigerator product. He has also mentioned Mildred & Ralph Lechner as author/sources, but I am not sure if this relates to the 90%, and I do not have any of their books. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:TwoScars|TwoScars]] ([[User talk:TwoScars|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TwoScars|contribs]]) 20:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC) 
:Thanks, I went ahead and added the source to the article, and updated the [[Template_talk:Did_you_know#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_November_9|Did you Know request]]. --[[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 01:55, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

==Fair use rationale for Image:Mysql-screenshot.PNG==
Thanks for uploading or contributing to '''[[:Image:Mysql-screenshot.PNG]]'''. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to [[:Image:Mysql-screenshot.PNG|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline|fair use rationale]].

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|my contributions]]" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you. [[User:Fastily|Fastily]] ([[User talk:Fastily|talk]]) 03:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
:Hi, I was just looking at the image, and it appears that the program is licensed under the [[GPL]] license; not fair use like I marked it. I'm going to change the the tags now. Sorry for the inconvenience. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 03:28, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

== DYK for Sneath Glass Company ==

{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[17 November]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Sneath Glass Company]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|}  '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 19:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Rollback Request ==

Now that I'm not getting edit conflicts out the wazoo.... As I'm pretty sure I already explained, rollback is intended for use with blatant vandalism only. The edits which led me to remove the tool from you could only be described as a content dispute. Even if leaving a note, it is inappropriate to use rollback, as that does not allow you to enter an edit summary for the benefit of other editors. It also marks the edit as minor, which if you're not reverting vandalism, it probably isn't. Edit conflicts are not a problem, as the undo button will often work for older revisions. If you get such a conflict, go back to the history and try again.

Anyway, in looking over your edits since the last request less than two weeks ago, I don't see any evidence of edit warring, but nor do I see much evidence of anti-vandalism work. I'll go ahead and give you the tool, since Huggle is good about finding only blatant stuff, but do use caution whenever using the tool manually. If you're not sure, use the undo button so you can leave a note. If you have further questions, do let me know. Happy editing. [[User:Hersfold|'''''Hersfold''''']] ([[User:Hersfold/t|t]]/[[User:Hersfold/a|a]]/[[Special:Contributions/Hersfold|c]]) 17:01, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

== RfA thanks ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #E6F2FF;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:THOBarnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The RfA Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | {{BASEPAGENAME}}, I would like to thank you for your participation in my recent [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Thehelpfulone|Request for Adminship]], which '''passed''' with 112 supports, 4 opposes and 5 neutrals. A special mention goes out to [[User:Stwalkerster|Stwalkerster]] and [[User:Pedro|Pedro]] for nominating me, thanks a lot for having trust in me! In response to the neutrals, I will try to double check articles that have been tagged for speedy deletion before I CSD them and will start off slowly with the drama boards of [[WP:ANI|ANI]] and [[WP:AN|AN]] to ensure that I get used to them. In response to the oppose !votes on my RfA, I will check that any images I use meet the [[WP:NFCC|non-free content criteria]] and will attempt to handle any disputes or queries as well as I can. If you need my help at all, feel free to simply [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Thehelpfulone&action=edit&section=new ask] at my [[User talk:Thehelpfulone|talk page]] and I'll see if I can help. Once again, thank you for your participation, and have a great day! :) [[User:Thehelpfulone|'''The''']][[User_talk:Thehelpfulone| '''Helpful''']][[Special:Contributions/Thehelpfulone| '''One''']] 22:22, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
|}
design by [[User:Neurolysis|neurolysis]] | to add this barnstar to your awards page, simply copy and paste <nowiki>{{subst:User:Neurolysis/THOBS}}</nowiki> and remove this bottom text | if you don't like thankspam, please accept my sincere apologies

== Adherents of Judaism category ==

Hi, please take a look at the comments I left [[Category_talk:Adherents_of_Judaism|here]] regarding my suggested deletion of this category. Your effort is commendable, but I think the category should be deleted. [[User:Shirulashem|'''shirulashem''']] [[User talk:Shirulashem|'''(talk)''']] 17:13, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:Thanks, for the notification. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 23:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

==Kim Kardiashian and Ana Kasparian==

In order for there to be a feud Kardishian would have had to respond in some way. I care because the information is inaccurate.
Go to youtube and type in "The Kim Kardashian vs. Ana Kasparian Feud rages on" and you will see an excerpt from the young turks show where kasparian disputes the idea that theres a feud. She made fun of her a lot on the show and some writer decided to write that up as feud. Unless you find some source where Kardashian responds directly to Kasparian than this claim has no evidence to back it up. [[User:annoynmous|annoynmous]] 11:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
:Oh sorry, I didn't realize the whole situation. [[User:Parthian Scribe|Parthian Scribe]] 07:37, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Ana Kasparian

2009-03-25T04:02:38Z

Parthian Scribe: There was a source, and the source called it a "feud". It isn't up to the users to do things based on solely their own views; WP:OR

{{Infobox Person
| name = Ana Kasparian
| image =
| caption = Ana Kasparian, Producer of The Young Turks
| birthname = Anahit Kasparian
| birth_date = {{birthdate and age|1986|07|07}}
| birth_place = Los Angeles
| age = 22
| death_date =
| death_place =
| occupation = Radio Talk Show Producer and Entertainment Correspondent
| alias =
| gender = Female
| status =
| title =
| family =
| spouse =
| children =
| relatives =
| ethnicity = Armenian
| religion = Agnostic
| salary =
| networth =
| credits =
| URL = http://www.theyoungturks.com/
| agent =
}}

'''Ana Kasparian''' (born July 7, 1986 Los Angeles) is the American producer and co-host of the [[liberal talk radio|liberal]] [[talk radio]] show ''[[The Young Turks (talk show)|The Young Turks]]''.

==Early Life and Education==
Ana graduated from [[California State University, Northridge]] in 2007 with a degree in Broadcast Journalism. She is currently working on a Masters in Political Science. Currently dating Anthony Pace, of Lawrence, Kansas <ref>http://www.theyoungturks.com/user/uid:3874</ref>

==Career==
===Young Turks===
Ana currently works as a producer and as a co-host of the third hour on the [[liberal talk radio|liberal]] [[talk radio]] show ''[[The Young Turks (talk show)|The Young Turks]]''. The show currently airs on a number of places, including the morning drive on XM Satellite Radio's Talk Left, channel 167. Aside from airing on the radio, TYT has also made several online partnerships with media groups such as AOL News, TidalTV, and YouTube. The show's YouTube channel gets an average of 5 million hits per month.

Ana Kasparian is known mainly for her discussion of [[Pop Culture]] and international stories in the news. She also occasionally weighs in on political subjects on the show, and in her blogs. Ana tends to criticize absurd celebrities in the media, and one of her better known biting criticisms on TYT was saying that [[Kim Kardashian]] has "fat thighs". There has been an ongoing feud between the two, referenced by the public media as "The Dueling Armenians", from the French "Les Arméniens en Duel".

===General Media Career===
In addition to her work on the show Ana has worked with several media partners such as [[AOL News]], [[YouTube]], and [[TidalTv]]. Ana is also an entertainment correspondent for the show.<ref>http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/ana/kasparian</ref> Ana began working with The Young Turks in April 2007. Prior to her position on The Young Turks Show, she worked for a CBS radio affiliate [[KNX 1070]] in Los Angeles doing production work and news writing, and also worked for On Point.

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[http://www.examiner.com/x-5445-LA-Politics-in-Education-Examiner Ana's blog.]

[[Category:Air America Radio|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American agnostics|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American political pundits|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American radio personalities|Kasparian]]
[[Category:Armenian-Americans|Kasparian]]
[[Category:Living people]]

[[tr:Ana Kasparian]]

Kim Kardashian

2009-03-25T04:00:41Z

Parthian Scribe: There was a source, and the source called it a "feud". It isn't up to the users to do things based on their own views; WP:OR. Why do you care so much anyway?

{{pp-semi|small=yes}}
{{Infobox Person
| name = Kim Kardashian
| image = Kim Kardashian.jpg
| image_size
| caption = Kim Kardashian at the Seventh Annual Hollywood Life Magazine Awards.
| birth_name = Kimberly Noel Kardashian
| birth_date = {{birth date and age|1980|10|21|}}
| birth_place = [[Los Angeles, California]], [[United States|U.S.]]
| team = [[New York Yankees]]
| nationality = American
| known_for = Reality show ''[[Keeping Up with the Kardashians]]'',
| occupation = [[Entrepreneur]], [[actress]], [[fashion model|model]]
| height = {{height|ft=5|in=2.5|wiki=yes}}
| parents = [[Robert Kardashian]] [[Kris Jenner]]
| relatives = [[Kourtney Kardashian]] [[Khloe Kardashian]] [[Rob Kardashian|Robert Kardashian Jr.]] [[Kylie Jenner]] [[Kendall Jenner]] Burt Jenner (stepbrother) Casey Jenner (stepsister) Brandon Jenner (stepbrother) [[Brody Jenner]] (stepbrother)
| website = [http://www.kimkardashian.celebuzz.com/ www.kimkardashian.celebuzz.com]
}}
'''Kimberly Noel "Kim" Kardashian ''' (born October 21, 1980) is an American [[celebutante]], [[socialite]], [[fashion model|model]], [[actress]], apparel [[retailer]],<ref name=kimofficial>{{cite web |url=http://www.officialkimkardashian.com/about.php |title=Official Kim Kardashian Website: Biography |accessdate=2008-02-22}}</ref> and [[television personality]]. She is perhaps best known for her social life, [[sex tape]] scandal, feud with radio personality [[Ana Kasparian]],<ref>http://blogs.hairboutique.com/index.php/2009/02/17/kim-kardashian-gives-advice-to-new-dwts-contestants/</ref> and her role on the [[E!]] reality show ''[[Keeping Up with the Kardashians]].''

==Early life==
Kardashian is of [[Armenia]]n (father), [[Scottish people|Scottish]] and [[Dutch people|Dutch]] (mother) descent,<ref>http://www.kimkardashian.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?tag=Armenian&IncludeBlogs=13&IncludeBlogs=13</ref> the daughter of attorney [[Robert Kardashian]] and [[Kris Jenner]] ([[Married and maiden names|née]] Houghton). Robert Kardashian, best known for being [[O. J. Simpson]]'s lawyer during his murder trial, died on September 30, 2003.<ref>{{cite news| title=Caught on Tape: Kim Kardashian Goes Home With Her Family | publisher =CNN.com| date =2003-10-01 | url =http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/10/01/OJattorney.dead/ | accessdate =2008-02-22}}</ref> Her mother, Kris, divorced Robert in 1989, and married former [[Olympic Games|Olympian]] [[Bruce Jenner]] in 1991.<ref>{{cite news| last=Jodran| first=Peg|title=First family of fitness - Bruce and Kris Jenner | publisher =American Fitness| date =1994-01/02 | url =http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0675/is_n1_v12/ai_14832566 | accessdate =2008-02-22}}</ref>

Kardashian has two sisters, [[Kourtney Kardashian|Kourtney]] and [[Khloe Kardashian|Khloe]], and one brother, [[Rob Kardashian|Robert]]. She also has stepbrothers Burton Jenner, Brandon Jenner, and reality TV star [[Brody Jenner]], stepsister Casey Jenner, and half-sisters [[Kendall Jenner|Kendall]] and [[Kylie Jenner]].<ref>{{cite news|last=Buckman| first=Adam| title=Caught on Tape: Kim Kardashian Goes Home With Her Family | date =2007-10-04 | url =http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142007/tv/caught_on_tape.htm | work = [[New York Post]] |accessdate =2008-02-22}}</ref> O.J. Simpson is Kardashian's godfather.<ref>{{cite news| title=O.J. Simpson now: Tapes offer a glimpse of his life | publisher =LA Times.com| date =2008-09-28 | url =http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oj28-2008sep28,0,1689156.story?page=2}}</ref>

While attending high school Kardashian worked at her father's music marketing firm, ''Movie Tunes.''<ref name=kimofficial />

==Career==
===Acting===
Kardashian starred in the 2008 film ''[[Disaster Movie]]'' as Lisa, alongside [[Carmen Electra]] and [[Vanessa Minnillo]]. The film, which spoofed disaster films, received negative reviews and had mild success at the box office. At end December 2008, after its DVD release, the movie was rated the 2nd worst film ever made at the Internet Movie Database. Kardashian also appeared in an episode of ''[[Benefits (How I Met Your Mother)|How I Met Your Mother]]''.

===''Dancing with the Stars''===
Kardashian was one of thirteen participants on the [[Dancing with the Stars (U.S. season 7)|seventh season]] of ''[[Dancing with the Stars (U.S. TV series)|Dancing with the Stars]]''.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.people.com/people/kim_kardashian/biography/0,,20185121_10,00.html|title=Kim Kardashian Biography|publisher=people.com|accessdate=2008-10-12}}</ref> She was partnered with Current DWTS Champion [[Mark Ballas]]. Kardashian was the third contestant voted off the show on September 30, 2008.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/entertainment&id=6424586|title=Kim Kardashian gets voted off 'Dancing'|date=2008-09-30|publisher=abclocal.go.com|accessdate=2008-10-12}}</ref>

===''Dancing with the Stars'' performances===
{|class="wikitable" align="left"
|rowspan="2" bgcolor="CCCCCC" align="Center"|'''Week #'''
|rowspan="2" bgcolor="CCCCCC" align="Center"|'''Dance/song'''
|colspan="3" bgcolor="CCCCCC" align="Center"|'''Judges' score'''
|rowspan="2" bgcolor="CCCCCC" align="Center"|'''Result'''
|-
|-
|bgcolor="CCCCCC" width="10%" align="center"|Inaba
|bgcolor="CCCCCC" width="10%" align="center"|Goodman
|bgcolor="CCCCCC" width="10%" align="center"|Tonioli
|-
|-
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|1
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|[[Foxtrot]]/"[[The Pink Panther Theme]]"
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|6
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|7
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|6
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|Last to be saved
|-
|-
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|1
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|[[Mambo]]/"[[Baby Got Back]]"
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|6
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|6
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|6
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|Safe
|-
|-
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|2
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|[[Rumba]]/"[[You Give Me Something]]"
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|6
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|6
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|5
|align="center" bgcolor="FAF6F6"|Eliminated
|} 

===Business Endeavors===
On May 2, 2008, Kardashian released a workout DVD, ''Workout with Kim Kardashian,'' and a set of workout cards with the help of trainer Kathy Kaehler.<ref>{{cite web|url= http://www.officialkimkardashian.com/2008/05/breaking-news-my-online-store.php|title= Kim Kardashian Releases Workout DVD|officialkimkardashian.com}}</ref>

In July 2008, Kardashian announced on her personal [[blog]] that she is working on her own perfume line to be released in 2009.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.officialkimkardashian.com/2008/07/breaking-news-im-launching-my.php|title= Kim Kardashian Launches Perfume | officialkimkardashian.com}}</ref>

In March 2009 Kardashian launched a shoe shopping service.<ref>[http://stylenews.peoplestylewatch.com/2009/03/20/kick-it-with-kims-new-budget-friendly-shoe-club-2/ Kick It With Kim's New Shoe Shopping Service] People, March 20, 2009</ref>

==Personal life==
In 2000, Kardashian married music producer [[Damon Thomas]]; their relationship ended in divorce in 2004. She began dating R&B music artist [[Ray J]]. This relationship ended soon after and, in 2007, she began dating NFL star [[Reggie Bush]].<ref>{{cite news|last=Lu| first=Anne| title=Kim Kardashian Engaged?|date=2008-01-08|url=http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7009589393 | accessdate=2008-02-22}}</ref>

===Sex tape scandal===

In 2007, a [[Celebrity sex tape|pornographic home video]] she had made with then-boyfriend, [[R&B]] singer [[Ray J]], was leaked.<ref>{{cite web|url= http://www.hiphoppress.com/2007/02/vivid_entertain.html|title= Vivid Entertainment Spends $1-Million To Acquire Notorious Video 'Starring' Sexy Socialite Kim Kardashian And Hip Hop Star Ray J|accessdate= 2008-10-06|author= [[Vivid Entertainment]]|date= 2007-02-07|publisher= [[Hip Hop Press]]}}</ref> [[Vivid Entertainment]] was the distribution company against which Kardashian pursued legal action for ownership of the tape. Kardashian later dropped the suit and [[legal settlement|settled]] with [[Vivid Entertainment]] for [[United States dollar|US]] $5 million.<ref>{{cite news|last=Johnson| first=Richard|title =Happy Ending | publisher = New York Post | date =2007-05-01 | url =http://www.nypost.com/seven/05012007/gossip/pagesix/happy_ending_pagesix_.htm | accessdate =2008-02-26}}</ref>

==References==
{{Reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://kimkardashian.celebuzz.com/ Kim Kardashian Official Website]

{{commons|Kim Kardashian}}
* {{imdb name|id=2578007|name=Kimberly Kardashian}}

{{blpwatch|from=09/2008|gossip/sourcing problems (format fixed and renewed by ST47 9/08)}}


{{Persondata
|NAME= Kardashian, Kim
|ALTERNATIVE NAMES= Kardashian, Kimberly Noel
|SHORT DESCRIPTION= [[Entrepreneur]], [[Model (person)|model]], [[actress]]
|DATE OF BIRTH= October 21, 1980
|PLACE OF BIRTH= [[Los Angeles, California]]
|DATE OF DEATH=
|PLACE OF DEATH=
}}

{{Lifetime|1980||Kardashian, Kim}}
[[Category:American film actors]]
[[Category:American socialites]]
[[Category:Armenian-Americans]]
[[Category:Scottish-Americans]]
[[Category:Dutch Americans]]
[[Category:Armenian people]]
[[Category:American television actors]]
[[Category:Businesspeople in fashion]]
[[Category:Dancing with the Stars (US TV series) participants]]
[[Category:Participants in American reality television series]]
[[Category:People from Los Angeles, California]]
[[Category:Sex scandal figures]]
[[Category:Socialites]]

[[es:Kim Kardashian]]
[[fa:کیم کاردشیان]]
[[fr:Kim Kardashian]]
[[nl:Kim Kardashian]]
[[ja:キム・カーダシアン]]
[[pl:Kim Kardashian]]
[[ro:Kim Kardashian]]
[[ru:Кардашян, Ким]]
[[simple:Kim Kardashian]]
[[fi:Kim Kardashian]]
[[tr:Kim Kardashian]]

Ana Kasparian

2009-03-24T06:26:42Z

Parthian Scribe: rm

{{Infobox Person
| name = Ana Kasparian
| image =
| caption = Ana Kasparian, Producer of The Young Turks
| birthname = Anahit Kasparian
| birth_date = {{birthdate and age|1986|07|07}}
| birth_place = Los Angeles
| age = 22
| death_date =
| death_place =
| occupation = Radio Talk Show Producer and Entertainment Correspondent
| alias =
| gender = Female
| status =
| title =
| family =
| spouse =
| children =
| relatives =
| ethnicity = Armenian
| religion = Agnostic
| salary =
| networth =
| credits =
| URL = http://www.theyoungturks.com/
| agent =
}}

'''Ana Kasparian''' (born July 7, 1986 Los Angeles) is the American producer and co-host of the [[liberal talk radio|liberal]] [[talk radio]] show ''[[The Young Turks (talk show)|The Young Turks]]''.

==Early Life and Education==
Ana graduated from [[California State University, Northridge]] in 2007 with a degree in Broadcast Journalism. She is currently working on a Masters in Political Science. Currently dating Anthony Pace, of Lawrence, Kansas <ref>http://www.theyoungturks.com/user/uid:3874</ref>

==Career==
===Young Turks===
Ana currently works as a producer and as a co-host of the third hour on the [[liberal talk radio|liberal]] [[talk radio]] show ''[[The Young Turks (talk show)|The Young Turks]]''. The show currently airs on a number of places, including the morning drive on XM Satellite Radio's Talk Left, channel 167. Aside from airing on the radio, TYT has also made several online partnerships with media groups such as AOL News, TidalTV, and YouTube. The show's YouTube channel gets an average of 5 million hits per month.

Ana Kasparian is known mainly for her discussion flatulence, and of [[Pop Culture]] and international stories in the news. She also occasionally weighs in on political subjects on the show, and in her blogs. Ana tends to criticize absurd celebrities in the media, and one of her better known biting criticisms on TYT involves [[Kim Kardashian]] and Kim's "fat thighs". There has been an ongoing feud between the two, referenced by the public media as "The Dueling Armenians", from the French "Les Arméniens en Duel".

===General Media Career===
In addition to her work on the show Ana has worked with several media partners such as [[AOL News]], [[YouTube]], and [[TidalTv]]. Ana is also an entertainment correspondent for the show.<ref>http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/ana/kasparian</ref> Ana began working with The Young Turks in April 2007. Prior to her position on The Young Turks Show, she worked for a CBS radio affiliate [[KNX 1070]] in Los Angeles doing production work and news writing, and also worked for On Point.

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[http://www.examiner.com/x-5445-LA-Politics-in-Education-Examiner Ana's blog.]

[[Category:Air America Radio|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American agnostics|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American political pundits|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American radio personalities|Kasparian]]
[[Category:Armenian-Americans|Kasparian]]
[[Category:Living people]]

[[tr:Ana Kasparian]]

Ana Kasparian

2009-03-24T06:25:54Z

Parthian Scribe: /* Young Turks */ revert

{{Infobox Person
| name = Ana Kasparian
| image =
| caption = Ana Kasparian, Producer of The Young Turks
| birthname = Anahit Kasparian
| birth_date = {{birthdate and age|1986|07|07}}
| birth_place = Los Angeles
| age = 22
| death_date =
| death_place =
| occupation = Radio Talk Show Producer and Entertainment Correspondent
| alias =
| gender = Female
| status =
| title =
| family =
| spouse =
| children =
| relatives =
| ethnicity = Armenian
| religion = Agnostic
| salary =
| networth =
| credits =
| URL = http://www.theyoungturks.com/
| agent =
}}

'''Ana Kasparian''' (born July 7, 1986 Los Angeles) is the American producer and co-host of the [[liberal talk radio|liberal]] [[talk radio]] show ''[[The Young Turks (talk show)|The Young Turks]]''.

==Early Life and Education==
Ana graduated from [[California State University, Northridge]] in 2007 with a degree in Broadcast Journalism. She is currently working on a Masters in Political Science. Currently dating Anthony Pace, of Lawrence, Kansas <ref>http://www.theyoungturks.com/user/uid:3874</ref> But also dating Ladis.

==Career==
===Young Turks===
Ana currently works as a producer and as a co-host of the third hour on the [[liberal talk radio|liberal]] [[talk radio]] show ''[[The Young Turks (talk show)|The Young Turks]]''. The show currently airs on a number of places, including the morning drive on XM Satellite Radio's Talk Left, channel 167. Aside from airing on the radio, TYT has also made several online partnerships with media groups such as AOL News, TidalTV, and YouTube. The show's YouTube channel gets an average of 5 million hits per month.

Ana Kasparian is known mainly for her discussion of [[Pop Culture]] and international stories in the news. She also occasionally weighs in on political subjects on the show, and in her blogs. Ana tends to criticize absurd celebrities in the media, and one of her better known biting criticisms on TYT involves [[Kim Kardashian]] and Kim's "fat thighs". There has been an ongoing feud between the two, referenced by the public media as "The Dueling Armenians", from the French "Les Arméniens en Duel".

===General Media Career===
In addition to her work on the show Ana has worked with several media partners such as [[AOL News]], [[YouTube]], and [[TidalTv]]. Ana is also an entertainment correspondent for the show.<ref>http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/ana/kasparian</ref> Ana began working with The Young Turks in April 2007. Prior to her position on The Young Turks Show, she worked for a CBS radio affiliate [[KNX 1070]] in Los Angeles doing production work and news writing, and also worked for On Point.

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[http://www.examiner.com/x-5445-LA-Politics-in-Education-Examiner Ana's blog.]

[[Category:Air America Radio|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American agnostics|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American political pundits|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American radio personalities|Kasparian]]
[[Category:Armenian-Americans|Kasparian]]
[[Category:Living people]]

[[tr:Ana Kasparian]]

Ana Kasparian

2009-03-24T02:04:58Z

Parthian Scribe: Reverted edits by 12.105.154.66 (talk) to last version by 75.164.123.102

{{Infobox Person
| name = Ana Kasparian
| image =
| caption = Ana Kasparian, Producer of The Young Turks
| birthname = Anahit Kasparian
| birth_date = {{birthdate and age|1986|07|07}}
| birth_place = Los Angeles
| age = 22
| death_date =
| death_place =
| occupation = Radio Talk Show Producer and Entertainment Correspondent
| alias =
| gender = Female
| status =
| title =
| family =
| spouse =
| children =
| relatives =
| ethnicity = Armenian
| religion = Agnostic
| salary =
| networth =
| credits =
| URL = http://www.theyoungturks.com/
| agent =
}}

'''Ana Kasparian''' (born July 7, 1986 Los Angeles) is the American producer and co-host of the [[liberal talk radio|liberal]] [[talk radio]] show ''[[The Young Turks (talk show)|The Young Turks]]''.

==Early Life and Education==
Ana graduated from [[California State University, Northridge]] in 2007 with a degree in Broadcast Journalism. She is currently working on a Masters in Political Science. Currently dating Anthony Pace, of Lawrence, Kansas <ref>http://www.theyoungturks.com/user/uid:3874</ref>

==Career==
===Young Turks===
Ana currently works as a producer and as a co-host of the third hour on the [[liberal talk radio|liberal]] [[talk radio]] show ''[[The Young Turks (talk show)|The Young Turks]]''. The show currently airs on a number of places, including the morning drive on XM Satellite Radio's Talk Left, channel 167. Aside from airing on the radio, TYT has also made several online partnerships with media groups such as AOL News, TidalTV, and YouTube. The show's YouTube channel gets an average of 5 million hits per month.

Ana Kasparian is known mainly for her discussion of [[Pop Culture]] and international stories in the news. She also occasionally weighs in on political subjects on the show, and in her blogs. Ana tends to criticize absurd celebrities in the media, and one of her better known biting criticisms on TYT involves [[Kim Kardashian]] and Kim's "fat thighs". There has been an ongoing feud between the two, referenced by the public media as "The Dueling Armenians", from the French "Les Arméniens en Duel".

===General Media Career===
In addition to her work on the show Ana has worked with several media partners such as [[AOL News]], [[YouTube]], and [[TidalTv]]. Ana is also an entertainment correspondent for the show.<ref>http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/ana/kasparian</ref> Ana began working with The Young Turks in April 2007. Prior to her position on The Young Turks Show, she worked for a CBS radio affiliate [[KNX 1070]] in Los Angeles doing production work and news writing, and also worked for On Point.

==References==
{{Reflist}}

[http://www.examiner.com/x-5445-LA-Politics-in-Education-Examiner Ana's blog.]

[[Category:Air America Radio|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American agnostics|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American political pundits|Kasparian]]
[[Category:American radio personalities|Kasparian]]
[[Category:Armenian-Americans|Kasparian]]
[[Category:Living people]]

[[tr:Ana Kasparian]]