Wikipedia - User contributions [en]

Trúc Bạch Lake

2009-11-19T11:04:42Z

Rungbachduong: change image with a better view

{{Infobox lake
| lake_name = Trúc Bạch Lake
| image_lake = Truc Bach Lake.jpg
| caption_lake =
| image_bathymetry =
| caption_bathymetry =
| location = [[Hanoi]]
| coords = {{coord|21|2|44|N|105|50|17|E|type:waterbody_region:VN|display=inline,title}}
| type = [[oxbow lake|oxbow]]
| basin_countries = Vietnam
| length = ca {{convert|400|m|ft|abbr=on}}
| width = ca {{convert|300|m|ft|abbr=on}}
| area = ca {{convert|9|ha|acre|abbr=on}}
| depth =
| max-depth =
| volume =
| residence_time =
| shore =
| elevation = ca {{convert|15|m|ft|abbr=on}}
| islands = a {{convert|20|m|ft|abbr=on}} in the northwest
}}

'''Trúc Bạch Lake''' ([[Vietnamese language|Vietnamese]]: {{linktext |Hồ| Trúc| Bạch}}) is one of the many [[lake]]s in the city of [[Hanoi]], the [[Capital (political)|capital]] of [[Vietnam]]. It is known outside Vietnam as the site where the US politician [[John McCain]] landed as a navy pilot during the [[Vietnam War]] after being shot down.

[[Image:Vietcapturejm01.jpg|thumb|[[John McCain]] being pulled out of Trúc Bạch Lake.]]

Trúc Bạch Lake is located northwest of Hanoi's Old Quarter, immediately adjacent to the eastern shore of the city's largest lake, the [[West Lake, Hanoi|West Lake]] (Hồ Tây), [[oxbow lake|a former branch]] of the [[Red River (Vietnam)|Red River]] whose west bank is nearby. Trúc Bạch Lake was separated from the West Lake by the construction of a narrow [[Dike (construction)|dike]] (Cổ Ngư, "reinforcement") in the 17th century to allow raising fish. The inhabitants of the Truc Yen Village, located on the south shore of the newly formed lake, were in the business of making bamboo blinds and hence cultivated a small variety of bamboo<ref name=thingsasian>[http://www.thingsasian.com/stories-photos/2746 Story on thingsasian.com]</ref>. In 1957 and 1958, major Thanh Niên Road was built between the lakes. In 1730s, the [[Trinh Lords|Trinh Lord]] [[Trinh Giang]] had Trúc Lâm [[Palace]] constructed on the lake shore. The building first served as a pleasure palace but was later converted into a prison for royal [[concubines]] found guilty of crime. The [[silk]] they produced, known as "Bamboo Village Silk" became famous for its beauty.

The lake front is open only along Thanh Niên Road, the other sides are occupied by houses and residential streets. The lake is among the most seriously polluted in Hanoi. Nearby historical sites include: Quán Thánh Temple to the southwest of the lake, Châu Long Pagoda to the east, An Trì Temple (dedicated to the worship of a hero from the war against the Chinese [[Yuan Dynasty]]) on Phó Đức Chính Street, and Cẩu Nhi temple on a small hill near the northern corner of the lake.

On October 26, 1967, during the [[Vietnam War]], [[John McCain]], then a US Navy pilot, was [[Early life and military career of John McCain#Prisoner of war|shot down by an anti-aircraft missile]] on a mission against a Hanoi power plant and parachuted wounded into Trúc Bạch Lake, nearly drowning. He was dragged out of water and mauled by a mob. A monument celebrating the downing of "Tchn Sney Ma Can" was erected at the western shore on Than Niên Road; McCain saw it on his first journey to Vietnam in 1985.

[[Image:Truc bach lake mccain memorial hanoi 2007 01.jpg|thumb|left|Monument of the McCain shot-down]]

==References and external links==
{{reflist}}
* [http://www.thudo.hanoi.gov.vn/eco/jsp/longArticle.jsp?articleID=90&language=2 Article on the lake's history] at Hanoi municipal website
* [http://www.ruaf.org/files/econf2_backgroundpaper_tran_duc_vien.doc The role of aquaculture in pollution-remediation in Tay Lake and Truc Bach Lake of Ha Noi], University of Vietnam ([[Microsoft Word]] document)

{{Hanoi Tourism}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Truc Bach Lake}}
[[Category:Lakes of Vietnam]]
[[Category:Hanoi]]

[[es:Lago Trúc Bạch]]
[[vi:Hồ Trúc Bạch]]

Six Strategies

2009-10-25T18:09:17Z

Rungbachduong: ←Redirected page to Six Secret Teachings

#redirect [[Six Secret Teachings]]

Wikipedia:Featured articles in other languages

2008-12-06T11:02:17Z

Rungbachduong: /* By language */ +Vietnamese

{| style="float:right; padding:1em; border:1px solid #dfdfdf; background-color:#FFFAF0;"
|{{shortcut|WP:FAOL}}
{{fapages}}
|}
This is a list of '''featured articles in other language Wikipedias'''. It is an effort to highlight articles that have gained [[Wikipedia:Featured article criteria|featured article status]] in other languages but are not as detailed (or do not even exist) in English.

This page aims at giving sources of information from other languages' Wikipedias to editors.

The requirements for being a [[Wikipedia:Featured articles|featured article]] are different in each language, and articles will still need to go through the [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates|featured article candidate]] nomination procedure in order to gain the featured status here.

==Identifying articles==
At the present time the list below is very much incomplete. Please visit the featured article pages of the other language Wikipedia and help to fill in the gaps. Check to see the state of the article in English and write a brief summary about it. You can then add '''{{[[Template:FAOL|FAOL]]}}''' to the talk page (see the usage in the template page).

==Helping articles==
There are three ways in which you can help:
#If you are able to translate some of the contents yourself you can expand the article yourself
#Create a [[Wikipedia:To-do list|to-do list]] on the talk page about what is missing from the English article but present in the other language article
#Request assistance from [[Wikipedia:Translation into English]] and add in the contents after it has been translated

You could also use an online translation tool (such as [http://translate.google.com/ Google Translate]) to help give you ideas of what is missing, but please avoid using the exact text generated as it is usually of a poor quality.

==By language==
*[[/Albanian]] All listings and FAOLs done. Translation now needed.
*[[/Arabic]]
*[[/Bengali]]
*[[/Bulgarian]]
*[[/Bosnian]]
*[[/Catalan]]
*[[/Cebuano]]
*[[/Chinese]]
*[[/Classical Chinese]]
*[[/Croatian]]
*[[/Czech]]
*[[/Danish]]
*[[/Dutch]]
*[[/Esperanto]]
*[[/Finnish]]
*[[/French]]
*[[/German]]
*[[/Greek]]
*[[/Hebrew]]
*[[/Hindi]]
*[[/Hungarian]]
*[[/Icelandic]] All listings and FAOLs done. Translation now needed.
*[[/Interlingua]]
*[[/Indonesian]]
*[[/Italian]]
*[[/Japanese]]
*[[/Kannada]]
*[[/Korean]]
*[[/Malayalam]]
*[[/Marathi]]
*[[/Norwegian (bokmaal)]]
*[[/Norwegian (nynorsk)]]
*[[/Persian]]
*[[/Polish]]
*[[/Portuguese]]
*[[/Romanian]]
*[[/Russian]]
*[[/Sanskrit]]
*[[/Slovak]]
*[[/Slovene]]
*[[/Spanish]]
*[[/Swedish]]
*[[/Tagalog]]
*[[/Tamil]]
*[[/Telugu]] All listings and FAOLs done. Translation <s>now needed</s> done.
*[[/Thai]]
*[[/Turkish]]
*[[/Ukrainian]]
*[[/Vietnamese]]


[[Category:Wikipedia featured articles in other languages|*]]
[[Category:Wikipedia featured content|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Wikipedia translation]]

[[it:Wikipedia:Voci di qualità in altre lingue]]
[[zh:Wikipedia:其他语言的维基百科特色条目]]

Wikipedia:Featured articles in other languages/Vietnamese

2008-12-06T11:00:55Z

Rungbachduong: ←Created page with 'Vietnamese language ''featured articles'': ===English version does not exist=== * [[:vi:Trường trung học phổ ...'

[[Vietnamese language]] [[:vi:Wikipedia:Bài viết chọn lọc|''featured articles'']]:

===English version does not exist===
* [[:vi:Trường trung học phổ thông Chu Văn An (Hà Nội)]] (could be [[Chu Van An High School (Hanoi)]])
* [[:vi:Chùa Việt Nam]] (could be [[Pagoda in Vietnam]])
* [[:vi:Nông thôn Việt Nam]] (could be [[Rural areas in Vietnam]])
* [[:vi:Tín ngưỡng Việt Nam]] (could be [[Faith in Vietnam]])

===Featured in both Vietnamese and English===
{| class="wikitable sortable"
! Vietnamese
! English
|-
| [[:vi:Mặt Trăng]]
| [[Moon]]
|-
| [[:vi:Sao chổi]]
| [[Comet]]
|-
| [[:vi:Sao Kim]]
| [[Venus]]
|-
| [[:vi:Vụ Nổ Lớn]]
| [[Big Bang]]
|-
| [[:vi:Cờ vua]]
| [[Chess]]
|-
| [[:vi:Thành Long]]
| [[Jackie Chan]]
|-
| [[:vi:Little Miss Sunshine]]
| [[Little Miss Sunshine]]
|-
| [[:vi:Michael Jackson]]
| [[Michael Jackson]]
|-
| [[:vi:Mariah Carey]]
| [[Mariah Carey]]
|-
| [[:vi:Rhinocerus]]
| [[Dürer's Rhinoceros]]
|-
| [[:vi:Lisa del Giocondo]]
| [[Lisa del Giocondo]]
|-
| [[:vi:Hướng đạo]]
| [[Scouting]]
|-
| [[:vi:Mahatma Gandhi]]
| [[Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi]]
|-
| [[:vi:Barack Obama]]
| [[Barack Obama]]
|-
| [[:vi:Paracetamol]]
| [[Paracetamol]]
|-
| [[:vi:Thuyết vô thần]]
| [[Atheism]]
|-
| [[:vi:Max Weber]]
| [[Max Weber]]
|-
| [[:vi:Đức]]
| [[Germany]]
|-
| [[:vi:Nhật Bản]]
| [[Japan]]
|-
| [[:vi:William Wilberforce]]
| [[William Wilberforce]]
|-
| [[:vi:Elizabeth I của Anh]]
| [[Elizabeth I of England]]
|-
| [[:vi:Catherine de Médicis]]
| [[Catherine de' Medici]]
|-
| [[:vi:Anne Frank]]
| [[Anne Frank]]
|-
| [[:vi:Trận Xích Bích]]
| [[Battle of Red Cliffs]]
|-
| [[:vi:Trận Cannae]]
| [[Battle of Cannae]]
|-
| [[:vi:Hải quân Đế quốc Nhật Bản]]
| [[Imperial Japanese Navy]]
|-
| [[:vi:Chiến tranh Boshin]]
| [[Boshin War]]
|-
| [[:vi:Tê giác Java]]
| [[Javan Rhinoceros]]
|}

Zhoukoudian Peking Man Site

2008-08-07T21:33:00Z

Rungbachduong: + interwiki

{{Infobox World Heritage Site
| WHS = Peking Man Site at Zhoukoudian
| Image = [[Image:Zhoukoudian Entrance.JPG|300px|Zhoukoudian Entrance]]
| State Party = [[Image:Flag of the People's Republic of China.svg|22px]] [[People's Republic of China|China]]
| Type = Cultural
| Criteria = iii, vi
| ID = 449
| Region = [[List of World Heritage Sites in Asia and Australasia|Asia-Pacific]]
| Year = 1987
| Session = 11th
| Link = http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/449
}}

'''Zhoukoudian''' or '''Choukoutien''' ({{zh-cp|c=周口店|p=Zhōukǒudiàn}}) is a [[cave|cave system]] near [[Beijing]] in [[China]]. It has yielded many [[archaeology|archaeological]] discoveries, including one of the first specimens of ''[[Homo erectus]]'', dubbed [[Peking Man]], and a fine assemblage of bones of the gigantic hyena ''[[Pachycrocuta brevirostris]]''. The Peking Man lived in this cave approximately 200,000 to 500,000 years ago.

The Peking Man Site was discovered by [[Johan Gunnar Andersson]] in [[1921 in archaeology|1921]]<ref name="doorKnock1">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = The First Knock at the Door| url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = In the summer of 1921, Dr. J.G. Andersson and his companions discovered this richly fossiliferous deposit through the local quarry men’s guide. During examination he was surprised to notice some fragments of white quartz in tabus, a mineral normally foreign in that locality. The significance of this occurrence immediately suggested itself to him and turning to his companions, he exclaimed dramatically “Here is primitive man, now all we have to do is find him!”}}</ref> and was first excavated by [[Otto Zdansky]] in 1921 and [[1923 in archaeology|1923]] unearthing two human teeth.<ref name="doorKnock2">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = The First Knock at the Door| url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = For some weeks in this summer and a longer period in 1923 Dr. Otto Zdansky carried on excavations of this cave site. He accumulated an extensive collection of fossil material, including two Homo erectus teeth that were recognized in 1926. So, the cave home of Peking Man was opened to the world.}}</ref> These were later identified by [[Davidson Black]] as belonging to a previously unknown species and extensive excavations followed.

[[Fissure]]s in the [[limestone]] containing middle [[Pleistocene]] deposits have yielded the remains of about 40 individuals as well as animal remains and stone [[lithic flake|flake]] and [[chopping tool]]s. The oldest are some 500,000 years old, contemporary with the [[Mindel]] or [[Anglian glaciation]].

During the [[Upper Palaeolithic]], the site was re-occupied and remains of ''[[Homo sapiens]]'' and its stone and bone tools have also been recovered from the Upper Cave.

The crater Choukoutien on asteroid [[243 Ida]] was named after the place.

==Excavation history==
[[Image:Peking Man.jpg|left|260px|thumb|Reconstruction of Peking Man]]

===Discovery===

[[Sweden|Swedish]] [[geologist]] [[Johan Gunnar Andersson]] first started his explorations of the region in [[1918 in archaeology|1918]] at an area called ''Chicken-bone Hill'' by locals who have misidentified the rodent fossils that are in abundance there,<ref name="unesco0">{{cite web | url = http://www.unesco.org/ext/field/beijing/whc/pkm-site.htm | title = The Peking Man World Heritage Site at Zhoukoudian | accessdate = 2008-04-20| author = | last = | first = | authorlink = | coauthors = | date = | year = | month = | format = | work = | publisher = [[UNESCO]] | pages = | language = English | doi = | archiveurl = | archivedate = | quote = In February 1918, Johann Gunnar Andersson, a famous Swedish geologist and archaeologist, was told that there were some fossils at what was called Chicken-bone Hill near Zhoukoudian. He was then serving as an adviser on mineral affairs in the Ministry of Agriculture and Commerce of the Chinese Government. He showed much interest and, in the following month, made a survey at the hill where a lot of rodent fossil was collected. The rodent fossil was taken as chicken bones by local people and the Chicken-bone Hill was so named. The latter is nominated later as Locality 6 of the Peking Man Site. This discovery of the locality is not so important, but the survey led to a series of investigations in the region.}}</ref> but it was not until [[1921 in archaeology|1921]] that he and [[USA|American]] [[palaeontologist]] [[Walter W. Granger]] were lead to the site known as ''Dragon Bone Hill'' by local quarry men. Noticing some white quartz that was foreign to the area he immediately realised that this would be a good place to search for the remains of primitive man.<ref name="historyMus1">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = John Gunnar Anderson, a Swedish geologist, discovered Peking Man Site in 1921. Under his supervision, Otto Zdensky, an Austrian palaeontologist, excavated at the site in 1921 and 1923 and found a human molar.}}</ref>

Excavations were undertaken by Andersson’s assistant [[Austria]]n [[palaeontologist]] [[Otto Zdansky]] in 1921 and [[1923 in archaeology|1923]] unearthing a great deal of material that was sent back to [[Uppsala University]] in Sweden for further analsis. In [[1926 in archaeology|1926]] Anderson announced the discovery of two human [[molars]] amongst this material and the [[1927 in archaeology|following year]] Zdansky published his finding cautiously identifying the teeth as ''?Homo sp.''<ref name="historyMus2">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = In 1926 a human premolar was found among the material from the Peking Man Site during preparation in the laboratory in Uppsala, Sweden. Andersson announced the discovery in October in Beijing.}}</ref>

{{rquote|left|Here is primitive man, now all we have to do is find him!|[[Johan Gunnar Andersson|J.G. Andersson]] upon discovery of the Peking Man Site}}

===Zhoukoudian Project===
[[Canadian]] [[paleoanthropologist]] [[Davidson Black]], who was working for the [[Peking Union Medical College]] at the time, was excited by Andersson and Zdansky's find an applied to the [[Rockefeller Foundation]] for funding to undertake a systematic excavation of the site.

Funding was granted and the Zhoukoudian Project commenced excavations in [[1927 in archaeology|1927]] under the supervision of [[China|Chinese]] [[geologist]] [[Li Jie]]. That fall a tooth was unearthed by Swedish [[paleontologist]] [[Anders Birger Bohlin]] for which Black proposed belonged a new species named ''[[Peking Man|Sinanthropus pekinensis]]''.<ref name="historyMus3">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Under support of Rockefeller Foundation, the excavation at Zhoukoudian started on a large scale in 1927. A well-preserved human molar was found. Davidson Black proposed a new genus and a new species, Sinathropus pekinensis, for the human teeth found at Peking Man Site.}}</ref> The [[1928 in archaeology|following year]] Black’s excavations uncover more fossils of his new species including teeth, a substantial part of a juvenile’s jaw and an adult jaw complete with three teeth.<ref name="historyMus4">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = During the field season of 1928, numerous isolated teeth, the greater part of a juvenile jaw and an adult jaw fragment with three molars were discovered.}}</ref> These finds allowed Black to secure an extra $80,000 grant from the Foundation which he used to establish a research laboratory.

===Cenozoic Research Laboratory===
The [[Cenozoic Research Laboratory]] of the [[Geological Survey of China]] was established at the [[Peking Union Medical College]] in [[1928 in archaeology|1928]] with the assistance of [[China|Chinese]] [[geologist]]s [[Ding Wenjing]] and [[Weng Wenhao]] for the research and appraisal of the fossils unearthed. Black stayed on at the Laboratory as honorary director while excavations continued at the site under Chinese [[archaeologists]] [[Yang Zhongjian]], [[Pei Wenzhong]] and [[Jia Lanpo]].

Conditions at the site remain primitive with scientists having to ride out to the excavation on mules, staying at caravansaries along the way, and when the first skullcap is unearthed at the site in [[1929 in archaeology|1929]] it is done by Pei, ''working in a 40-meter crevasse in frigid weather with a hammer in one hand and a candle in the other.''<ref name="sheilaMelvin0">{{cite web | url = http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/10/features/melvin.php | title = Archaeology: Peking Man, still missing and missed | accessdate = 2008-04-20| author = | last = Melvin | first = Sheila | authorlink = | coauthors = | date = October 11, 2005 | year = | month = | format = | work = | publisher = [[International Herald Tribune]] | pages = | language = English | doi = | archiveurl = | archivedate = | quote = The scientists who worked on the excavation rode to the site on mules and stayed in an old caravansary. The first skullcap was dug out by Pei Wenzhong working in a 40-meter crevasse in frigid weather with a hammer in one hand and a candle in the other.}}</ref> A second skullcap is discovered close to the first in [[1930 in archaeology|1930]]<ref name="unesco1">{{cite web | url = http://www.unesco.org/ext/field/beijing/whc/pkm-site.htm | title = The Peking Man World Heritage Site at Zhoukoudian | accessdate = 2008-04-20| author = | last = | first = | authorlink = | coauthors = | date = | year = | month = | format = | work = | publisher = [[UNESCO]] | pages = | language = English | doi = | archiveurl = | archivedate = | quote = Just after the discovery of the first skullcap of Peking Man, the second skullcap was discovered in the spring of 1930. It was found and restored from a block of sediments from Locus nearby that of the first skullcap and brought back to the Cenozoic Research Laboratory.}}</ref> and by [[1932 in archaeology|1932]] nearly 100 workers are deployed on the site each day.<ref name="unesco2">{{cite web | url = http://www.unesco.org/ext/field/beijing/whc/pkm-site.htm | title = The Peking Man World Heritage Site at Zhoukoudian | accessdate = 2008-04-20| author = | last = | first = | authorlink = | coauthors = | date = | year = | month = | format = | work = | publisher = [[UNESCO]] | pages = | language = English | doi = | archiveurl = | archivedate = | quote = In 1932, the scale of the excavation was large and daily employment of workers was more than one hundred. Within a square kilometre sphere, excavation of different Loci was often carried out simultaneously.}}</ref>

Despite the conditions at the site eminent researchers continue to visit. [[France|French]] [[palaeontologist]] [[Pierre Teilhard de Chardin]] has been a regular visitor to the site since 1926. French archaeologist [[Henri Breuil]] visits in [[1931 in archaeology|1931]] and confirms the presence of stone tools. That same year evidence of the use of fire at the cave becomes accepted.<ref name="historyMus6">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Henri Breuil, a French archaeologist, was invited to visit the site in 1931, he confirmed the existence of stone tools at Peking Man Site. In the same year, the evidence of using fire at this cave was accepted by anthropological circle.}}</ref>

The workaholic Black passes away one night in [[1934 in archaeology|1934]] at his office with one of the skullcaps unearthed at the site on his desk.<ref name="sheilaMelvin1">{{cite web | url = http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/10/features/melvin.php | title = Archaeology: Peking Man, still missing and missed | accessdate = 2008-04-20| author = | last = Melvin | first = Sheila | authorlink = | coauthors = | date = October 11, 2005 | year = | month = | format = | work = | publisher = [[International Herald Tribune]] | pages = | language = English | doi = | archiveurl = | archivedate = | quote = Black died at his office desk in the middle of the night with a skullcap of Peking Man beside him.}}</ref> [[Germany|German]] [[Jewish]] [[anthropologist]] [[Franz Weidenreich]] replaces him as honorary director of the Laboratory and excavations continue uncovering a further three skullcaps in [[1936 in archaeology|1936]].<ref name="unesco3">{{cite web | url = http://www.unesco.org/ext/field/beijing/whc/pkm-site.htm | title = The Peking Man World Heritage Site at Zhoukoudian | accessdate = 2008-04-20| author = | last = | first = | authorlink = | coauthors = | date = | year = | month = | format = | work = | publisher = [[UNESCO]] | pages = | language = English | doi = | archiveurl = | archivedate = | quote = Since 1935, excavation was under the charge of Mr. Jia Lan-po, world famous archeologist. In the following excavations, the most fruitful year was in 1936, three complete skullcaps were unearthed.}}</ref>

Altogether excavations uncoverg 200 human fossils from more than 40 individuals including 5 nearly complete [[skullcaps]]<ref name="historyMus5">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = During 1927-1937, abundant human and animal fossils as well as artefact were found at Peking Man Site, it made the site to be the most productive one of the Homo erectus sites of the same age all over the world. Other localities in the vicinity were also excavated almost at the same time.}}</ref> before they are brought to a halt in [[1937 in archaeology|1937]] by the [[Second Sino-Japanese War|Japanese invasion]] of China. Reports of Japanese atrocities include the torture and murder of workers at the site, three bayoneted to death and a fourth forced to pull a rickshaw until dying of starvation.<ref name="sheilaMelvin2">{{cite web | url = http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/10/features/melvin.php | title = Archaeology: Peking Man, still missing and missed | accessdate = 2008-04-20| author = | last = Melvin | first = Sheila | authorlink = | coauthors = | date = October 11, 2005 | year = | month = | format = | work = | publisher = [[International Herald Tribune]] | pages = | language = English | doi = | archiveurl = | archivedate = | quote = Three Chinese workers at the site were tortured and then bayoneted to death by Japanese soldiers, and one worker was forced to drive a rickshaw and died of starvation.}}</ref>

In [[1941 in archaeology|1941]] the bulk of the finds were lost, never to be recovered, while being transported to safety.<ref name="historyMus7">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = During World War II, Peking Man fossils were lost in 1941.}}</ref> Fortunately Weidenreich had taken copies of the fossils to preserve their physical characters.<ref name="historyMus8">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = But the fossils had been studied in great detail by Franz Weidenreich, a German Jewish anthropologist, whose publication on Peking Man provided most part of the knowledge of the physical characters of the earliest humans known by then.}}</ref>

[[Image:Peking Man Skulls.jpg|800px|thumb|center|Reconstructions of the Peking Man skulls unearthed]]

===Post War Excavations===

Excavation work was recommenced in [[1949 in archaeology|1949]] unearthing new Peking Man fossils including 5 teeth and fragments of thigh and shin bone.<ref name="historyMus9">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = The excavation work at Zhoukoudian site was resumed in 1949, 5 teeth and one piece of thighbone fragment as well as one piece of shinbone fragment of Peking Man were found.}}</ref> The [[1950 in archaeology|following year]] a third premolar was discovered in the material sent back to Uppsala by Zdansky in 1921 and 1923.<ref name="historyMus10">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = In 1950, another premolar was found in the materials unearthed from the Peking Man Site, the materials were transported to Uppsala in the early 1920’s.}}</ref>

Peking Man Site is designated ''type section of cave deposits of Middle Pleistocene in North China'' by the Annual Congress of the National Committee of Stratigraphy of China [[1959 in archaeology|1959]]<ref name="historyMus11">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Peking Man Site was designated as the type section of cave deposits of Middle Pleistocene in North China on the Annual Congress of National Committee of Stratigraphy of China in 1959.}}</ref> and a mandible fragment is unearthed.<ref name="historyMus12">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = A mandibular fragment of Peking Man was found in 1959.}}</ref>

Excavations lead by Pei in [[1966 in archaeology|1966]] unearthed a premolar and two pieces of skull fragment, these were discovered to match fragments retained from previous excavations in 1934 and 1936, and the only extant example of a nearly complete skullcap was pieced together.<ref name="historyMus13">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Two pieces of cranial fragment and a premolar of Peking Man were found in 1966, these two skull fragment perfectly matched with the two pieces of skull fragment unearthed in 1934 (one of which was recognized in laboratory in 1936), they belong to the same individual.}}</ref>

Excavations at Locality 4 in Zhoukoudian, from [[1972 in archaeology|1972]]-[[1973 in archaeology|73]], unearth a ''Homo sapiens'' premolar.<ref name="historyMus14">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = A premolar of Homo sapiens was found at Locality 4 of Zhoukoudian during 1972-1973.}}</ref>

Modern scientific dating techniques confirm that the site was occupied between 580,000 and 230,000 years ago.<ref name="historyMus15">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Review of the History | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Based on various chronometric data obtained with different techniques. Peking Man is known to had been occupying the site during the period between 580,000 and 230,000 years before the present.}}</ref>

==Excavation sites==
===Peking Man Site===
[[Image:Zhoukoudian Peking Man Site.jpg|250px|thumb|right|Peking Man Site]]
Locality 1, also known as Peking Man Site, was the first to be discovered in [[1921 in archaeology|1921]] under the direction of local quarry men. The site was originally a natural limestone cave although the roof had long since collapsed spreading a layer of breccia and rubble across the top of the deposits. Early excavations in 1921 and [[1923 in archaeology|1923]] revealed evidence of human habitation from 500,000 to 200,000 years ago. The cave was excavated from [[1927 in archaeology|1927]]-[[1937 in archaeology|37]] yielding 200 human fossils (from 40 individuals) identified as ''[[Homo erectus]]'', more than 10,000 pieces of stoneware, several cinder layers indicating fire use in early man, as well as animal fossils from 200 separate species. Tragically the bulk of this material was lost in [[1941 in archaeology|1941]] during the [[Second Sino-Japanese War|Japanese Occupation]] and has never been recovered. Excavations recommenced in [[1949 in archaeology|1949]] and continued to yield fossils and artefacts making this site one of the most fruitful sources of material from the [[Middle Pleistocene]] era.<ref name="pekingManSite1">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Peking Man Site | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Peking Man Site, or the Locality 1, at Zhoukoudian, was originally a natural limestone cave. The Peking Man, from about fix or six hundred thousand years ago, claimed here as their home. They lived Zhoukoudian discontinuously until about 200,000 years ago, and their remains, relics as well as the rock off from the cave roof and bedload from outside the cave deposited in the cave layer by layer. Eventually, thick deposits have come into being, which are some 140 meters long from the east to west, 2m to 40m wide from south to north, 40-plus meters thick, and composed of 13 layers.}}</ref><ref name="pekingManSite2">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Peking Man Site | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Discovered in 1921, this site had been excavated systematically from 1927 to 1937 when the July 7th Incident of 1937 broke out. The excavation restored after liberation. Over the past decades, the middle section (about 27,000m³) of the deposit was excavated, from which nearly 200 human fossils (belong to 40 ape men), more than 10,000 pieces of stoneware, several cinder layers as well as animal fossils of almost 200 species have been discovered. Compared to other sites of the same era in the world, Peking Man Site boasts the most integral and richest findings and is the best representative of all ape-man sites, therefore playing an important and irreplaceable role in the scientific research and human being’s ancient culture history.}}</ref><ref name="pekingManSite3">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Peking Man Site | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Before excavation, the roof of the cave had already collapsed, which became the breccia and rocks on the top of the deposits. In the process of digging, all holes were dug out except for the Pigeon Hole in the east, which was cemented too hard to be removed.}}</ref>

A total of 13 layers have been excavated at the site to a depth of nearly 40 m.
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Layer
! Thick
! Consistency
! Finds
|-
| 1-2
| 4m
| [[Breccia]] & [[travertine]]
| Fossils & stoneware
|-
| 3
| 3m
| Course breccia & [[limestone]] blocks formed by the roof collapse
| Peking Man skull (1966), fossils & stoneware
|-
| 4
| 6m
| Ash & limestone blocks
| Upper Cultural Zone of burned bone & stone, fossils & stoneware
|-
| 5
| 1m
| [[Ragstone]]
| Fossils & stoneware
|-
| 6
| 5m
| Breccia, limestone blocks & [[Hyena]] dung
| Fossils & stoneware
|-
| 7
| 2m
| [[Sand]]
| Fossils & stoneware
|-
| 8-9
| 6m
| Breccia & ash
| Lower Cultural Zone containg majority of the Peking Man fossils recovered
|-
| 10
| 2m
| [[Laterite]] and ash
| Fossils & stoneware
|-
| 11
| 2m
| Breccia
| First Peking Man skull (1929), fossils & stoneware
|-
| 12
| 2m
| Red sand
| Fossils
|-
| 13
| 2m
| Silt & Hyena dung
| Fossils & stoneware
|}
Layers below this have been shown by test-pit drilling to not contain fossils or stoneware and have never been excavated.<ref name="profileDesc">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Description of the profile | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Layers 1-2: Breccia containing travertine, about 4m thick. Layer 3: Coarse breccia, containing huge limestone blocks, formed by the roof collapse. A skull of Peking Man was found from this layer in 1966. Layer 4: Laminated ashy layer (Upper Cultural Zone) containing burned bones and stones, as well as huge limestone blocks, about 6m thick. Layer 5: Stalagmite layer, about 1m thick. Layer 6: Breccia, containing huge limestone blocks and hyena coprolites, about 5m thick. Layer 7: Sandy layer, about 2m thick. Layers 8-9: Breccia containing ash (Lower Cultural Zone), about half of Peking Man fossil assemblage was found from the layers, about 6m thick. Layer 10: Reddish clay (upper part) and ash (lower part), about 2m thick. Layer 11: Breccia. The first skull of Peking Man was found from the layer corresponding to this one in 1929, about 2m thick. Layer 12: Reddish sandy layer about, 2m thick. Layer 13: Sand and clay containing boulders and hyena coprolites, about 2m thick. All of the layers mentioned above contain fossils and contain stone artefacts except Layer 12. The deposit under the 13th layer was not excavated and only known from the test pit without fossil and stone artefact.}}</ref>

{|
|-
| valign="top" |

====East Slope====
Part of Peking Man Site this slope was excavated [[1930 in archaeology|1930]]-[[1958 in archaeology|58]] and again in [[1978 in archaeology|1978]]-[[1979 in archaeology|79]] by a multi-disciplinary research mission. Excavation have dug to a depth of 7m through Layers 3-6 and have unearthed stone tools, burned bones and ashes, and fossils of bird, reptile and mammal species.<ref name="eastSlope">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = The excavated area of The east slope | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = The East Slope is one part of Peking Man site, and it once was excavated during 1930-1958. The most recent excavation was conducted during the mission (1978-1979) of the multi-disciplinary synthetic researches at the site. The excavate area is 20 meters long, 16 meters wide from north to south, and 7 meters deep; approximately 320 square meters of surface. In stratigraphy, the excavated part can be correlated with the layers 3-6, among which the 4th layer is the ash-layer and the other layers are composed of well cemented breccias. The animal fossils recovered include mammals, reptiles and birds. Some stone tools, burned bones and ashes left by humans were also unearthed.}}</ref>
| valign="top" |

====Pigeon Hall====
Pigeon Hall was named in honour of its frequent visitors and was connected with Peking Man Site by workmen in 1928. Excavations from 1930-31 unearthed numerous Peking Man bones (including [[mandible]], [[clavicle]] and [[parietal bone]]), signs of fire use (including a scorched redbud stick), and stone tools of quartz and green sandstone.<ref name="pigeonHall">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Pigeon Hall | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Pigeon Hall was named for its frequent visit by pigeons. The northern wall is made of limestone. Two holes were made on the east side of the wall for the purpose of collecting stones and burnt limes. The cave roof and southern wall contain petrous breccia with fossils. In 1928, when the Locality 1 was being excavated, workers connected the west end of the cave with Locality 1. It was excavate in 1930 and 1931 respectively. The most important finding here include fossils of clavicles, parietal bones, mandibles of ape-men, and lots of primary stone tools made of quartz and green sandstones. The four culture layers include the signs of ape-men’s utilization of fire and large cinder layers, Particularly, a scorched stick of redbud tree was discovered in the Hall, whose geological age dates back to Middle Pleistocene, the same to that of Locality 1.}}</ref>
|}

===Upper Cave===
[[Image:Zhoukoudian Upper Cave.jpg|250px|thumb|right|Upper Cave Site]]
Situated on the upper part of ''Dragon Bone Hill'' this cave was discovered in [[1930 in archaeology|1930]] and excavated from [[1933 in archaeology|1933]]-[[1934 in archaeology|34]] during which time the roof and north facing opening were removed. Excavations found evidence of human habitation in the cave dating back to 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. The cave was divided into an upper level living quarters and a lower level burial ground, while a small recess on the lower level acted as a natural animal trap.<ref name="upperCave1">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Upper Cave | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = This site was discovered in 1930, and excavated in 1933 and 1934. From 20,000 to 10,000 years before present the Upper Cave Man lived in the cave. The cave originally had a complete roof and a north facing opening, but these were removed during the excavation. The site consists of four parts, the entrance (collapsed), the upper chamber, the lower chamber and the lower recess. The upper chamber is a living floor, the lower chamber is a graveyard and the lower recess is a natural trap from which many complete skeletons of large mammals have been unearthed.}}</ref> Finds unearthed included three human skulls and other remains from at least eight individuals indentified as [[Archaic Homo sapiens|Archaic ''Homo sapiens'']], tools and ornaments made from stone and bone, and numerous animal bones including complete skeletons of large mammals caught in the lower level trap. Also white powder sprinkled around the remains on the lower level indicates the inhabitants practiced burial rites.<ref name="upperCave2">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Upper Cave | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Three human skulls and other human fossils from at least 8 individuals, ornaments and tools made of bone and stone as well as animal bones were found in the cave. The white powder found around the human bones indicates that the inhabitants of upper cave already performed some form of burial rites for the dead.}}</ref>

===Other Localities===
More than 20 fossil bearing localities have been excavated in Zhoukoudian to date.

{|
|-
| valign="top" |

====Locality 2====
This north-south running fissure is filled with red binder soil and dates to the Middle Pleistocene era. Excavations in 1921 concurrent with those at Peking Man Site unearthed mammalian fossils including hamster, rhino and Chinese hyena.<ref name="locality2">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Locality 2 | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Locality 2 was excavated in 1921 at the same time with Locality 1. The site was 2m-thick and 15m-high south-northward deposit. The deposits are mainly red binder soil containing calcareous concretions. Unearthed animal fossils include hamster, Chinese hyena, rhinoceros, megaloceros pachyosteus, sus lydekkeri, etc. The geological age dates back to Middle Pleistocene.}}</ref>

====Locality 3====
Discovered in [[1927 in archaeology|1927]] this east-west running fissure is filled with [[breccia]] and dates to the late Middle Pleistocene era. Excavations in [[1933 in archaeology|1933]] unearthed mammalian fossils including porcupine, racoon dog and badger.<ref name="locality3">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Locality 3 | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Discovered in 1927 and excavated in 1933, Locality 3 is a fissure filling deposit stretching from east to west. It is 8 meters long and less than 4 meters wide. The content of the deposit is breccia. The unearthed fossils cover 56 mammals such as zokor, porcupine, racoon dog, badger, tiger, bear, dear and so on. The geological age is late Middle Pleistocene.}}</ref>

====Locality 4====
Discovered in 1927 this north-south running fissure is filled with yellow sandy clay and dates to the late Middle Pleistocene era. Excavations from [[1937 in archaeology|1937]]-[[1938 in archaeology|38]] unearthed stoneware, burned bones and seeds (indicating fire use in early man) and fossils of jackal and deer. A second excavation in [[1973 in archaeology|1973]] unearthed a human premolar and the fossilised remains of 40 mammalian species including macaque, pig, bear and horse.<ref name="locality4">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Locality 4 | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Discovered in 1927, this locality was excavated during 1937-1938. The fissure deposit extends in a north-south direction, and contains mainly yellow sandy clay with abundant limestone fragments. This excavation yielded lithic tools, evidence of fire used by early man (burned bones and burned seeds of hackberry trees) as well as mammalian fossils such as jackal (Cuon) and deer (Cervus). In 1973, a upper premolar of human’s and other 40 additional mammalian species were discovered, including macaque (Macaca), mole-rat (Myospalax), bear (Ursus), horse (Equus cf. sanmeniensis), pig (Sus cf. lydekkeri), red deer (Cervus elaphus), and sika deer (Cervus grayi). The geological age is late Middle Pleistocene similar to that of the upper part of Locality 1.}}</ref>

====Cap Deposit====
This deposit, located 60m above the riverbed, is filled with layers of sand and gravel and dates to the late Early Pliocene era. Excavations from 1937-38 unearthed mammalian fossils including civet and bamboo rat.<ref name="capDeposit">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Cap Deposit | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = The Cap Deposit is located at the 60 meters of the river bed of Ba’er River, which is mainly composed of gravel layers and sand layers. It was excavated between 1937 and 1938, and such animal fossils like prosipheus, rhizomys, Viverra peii etc. have been unearthed. The geological age is early Pliocene.}}</ref>

====New Cave====
Discovered in [[1967 in archaeology|1967]], this cave connects with Locality 4 to its south. The deposits formed by hydrostatic sedimentation in stagnant water conditions contained no fossils or human related artefacts.<ref name="newCave">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Locality 4 | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = In 1967 a cavern to the north of Locality 4 was discovered, this cavern connects with Locality 4 and was named the “New Cave”. Formed primarily under stagnant water condition, the deposits in the “New Cave” yielded neither fossils nor artefacts.}}</ref>
| valign="top" |

====Locality 12====
Discovered in 1933, when Locality 3 was being excavated, this column shaped corrosion pit is filled with red grit and dates to the late Early Pleistocene era. Excavations unearthed fossils of 22 mammalian species including [[sabre-toothed tiger]] and an extinct primate.<ref name="locality12">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Locality 12 | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Locality 12 was discovered in 1933 when the Locality 3 was being excavated. Locality 12 is a column shaped corrosion pit with a diameter of about one meter. The substances in the pit are red grits. Twenty-two types of animal fossil are unearthed, such as procynocephalus wimani, sabre-toothed tiger, postschaizo-therium chardini etc. The geological era is early Pleistocene.}}</ref>

====Locality 13====
This fissure in a limestone mound 1km south of Peking Man Site dates to the early Middle Pleistocene era and is the earliest site of cultural remains excavated so far at Zhoukoudian. Excavations of the thin-bedded sandy clay about 50m above the river bed have unearthed stone artefacts, ash and charred bones and 36 species of deeply fossilised mammalian fossils including thick-jawed giant deer and sabre-toothed tiger.<ref name="locality13">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Locality 13 | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Locality 13 lies on a limestone mound about 1km to the south of the Peking Man Site. This fissure or cave was filled with deposits about 50 meters above the local river bed. Some stone artefacts and traces of using fire (ash layer and a few charred bones) were found as well. This is the earliest site of cultural remains so far excavated in Zhoukoudian area. Many deeply fossilised fossils were found from the thin-bedded sandy clay. There are 36 species of mammalian fossils, including thick-jawed giant deer (Megaloceros pachyosteus), sabretooth (Homotherium). Locality 13 is roughly equivalent to the lower part of the deposits of Peking Man Site in geological age, i.e. it’s early Middle Pleistocene.}}</ref>

====Locality 14====
This narrow limestone cave 1.5km south of Peking Man Site dates to the Early Pliocene era and has yielded some of Zhoukoudian oldest fossils, dating back 5 million years. Excavations, in 1933, [[1951 in archaeology|1951]] and [[1953 in archaeology|1953]], of the thin-bedded fine sandstone about 70m above the river bed have unearthed more than 600 nearly complete fish fossils of four different species, two of which are now extinct.<ref name="locality14">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Locality 14 | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Locality 14 lies 1.5km to the south of the Peking Man Site. Originally it was a narrow and pocket-like limestone cave situated about 70 meters above the present riverbed. During the excavation in 1933, 1951 and 1953, more than 600 nearly complete fish fossils were unearthed from the thin-bedded fine sandstone. Many of the fishes are well preserved. These fishes can be attributed to four species: Matsya hsichihi, Barbus brevicephalus, Barbus szechuanensis and Barbus cf. yunnanensis, all of them are barbels. The former two species are extinct, whereas the latter two are still living today in the vast areas to the south of Changjian (Yangtze) river, such as Sichuan, Yunnan, Guangdong, Guangxi, Hainan, Fujian and Taiwan provinces. The fauna found at this locality is of Early Pliocene age (about 5 million years before present).}}</ref>

====Locality 15====
Discovered in [[1932 in archaeology|1932]] this relatively young site dates to around 100,000 to 200,000 years ago. Excavations from [[1934 in archaeology|1934]]-[[1935 in archaeology|35]] revealed three layers; an upper layer of loess and limestone debris; a middle layer containing ash, stoneware, burned bones and hackberry seeds; and a lower layer of red clay containing stoneware and bird and mammalian fossils including woolly rhino, giant deer and gazelle. The site has yet to be fully excavated.<ref name="locality15">{{cite news | first = | last = | authorlink = | author = | coauthors = | title = Locality 15 | url = | format = | work = | publisher = Peking Man Site Museum | pages = | page = | date = | accessdate = | language = English | quote = Discovered in 1932, Locality 15 was excavated during 1934-1935. The excavated part measures 16 meters long, 13 meters wide, and 10 meters thick, while other parts of the deposit have not been excavated. The deposit can be divided into three layers. The upper layer contains yellowish sandy clay with occasional limestone debris; the middle layer contains ash, big limestone blocks, seeds of hackberry trees, burned bones as well as lithic tools; the lower layer contains breccia with limestone blocks, bone fragments, lithic tools and red clay. This locality yielded bird fossils and 33 mammalian species, including mole-rat (Myospalax), woolly rhinoceros (Coelodonta antiquitatis), thick-jawed giant deer (Megaloceros pachyosteus), sika deer (Cervus grayi) and gazelle (Gazella). The geological age is younger than that of Locality 1, ranging from 200,000 to 100,000 years before present.}}</ref>
|}

==Gallery==
<gallery caption="Zhoukoudian localaties" widths="160px" heights="160px">
Image:Zhoukoudian-1.jpg|Peking Man Site (Locality 1)
Image:Zhoukoudian-3.jpg|Locality 3
Image:Zhoukoudian-4.jpg|Locality 4
Image:Zhoukoudian-5.jpg|Locality 5
Image:Zhoukoudian-12.jpg|Locality 12
Image:Zhoukoudian-15.jpg|Locality 15
Image:Zhoukoudian-66.jpg|Site of skull find in 1966
Image:Zhoukoudian_Museum_July2004.jpg|Peking Man Site Museum
</gallery>

==See also==
{{Commonscat|Zhoukoudian}}
* [[Peking Man]]
* [[List of fossil sites]] ''(with link directory)''
* [[List of hominina fossils|List of hominina (hominid) fossils]] ''(with images)''

==External links==
* [http://www.unesco.org/ext/field/beijing/whc/pkm-site.htm The Peking Man World Heritage Site at Zhoukoudian]
* [http://www.china.org.cn/english/MATERIAL/31256.htm Zhoukoudian Tourism Guide]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{World Heritage Sites in China}}

{{coord|39|41|21|N|115|55|26|E|display=title|region:CN-11_type:landmark_source:dewiki}}

[[Category:Caves of China]]
[[Category:Limestone caves]]
[[Category:Beijing]]
[[Category:Paleolithic sites in China]]
[[Category:World Heritage Sites in China]]
[[Category:Paleontological sites]]

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[[ja:周口店]]
[[nl:Zhoukoudian]]
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[[vi:Di chỉ người Bắc Kinh tại Chu Khẩu Điếm]]
[[zh:周口店北京人遗址]]

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Vietnam

2008-08-07T01:52:44Z

Rungbachduong: /* Need help at Battle of Bạch Đằng River (938) */

{{WPVN|class=NA}}
{{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=NA}}

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== Historical subdivisions ==

Hello all. I'm very excited to see a Vietnamese WikiProject finally assembled. As a Japan scholar, Southeast Asia has always interested me but has always been on the side.. What I guess I'm trying to say is I'm no expert, but I'm happy to be here.

One set of articles which I think could use some serious help from experts are those describing historical subdivisions of Vietnam. I'm afraid I am far from familiar enough with Vietnam's history overall to be able to tackle this alone, so I hope that others can jump in. Some terms which I think need better, clearer, explanations, along with some care taken to accurately represent the overlaps in terminology:

*[[Annam]] - the disambig page looks great, though [[Annam (Chinese Province)]] needs expansion, and [[Annam (French colony)]] needs some serious cleanup.
*[[Cochinchina]]/[[Quinam]]/[[Quang Nam]]/[[Dang Trong]] -- The confusion between these needs to be cleared and explained. [[Quang Nam]] currently only describes the modern-day province, not the historical central-southern section of the country controlled by the Nguyen lords in the 16th-17th centuries. Perhaps the best answer is to create an article at Dang Trong linked to in Quang Nam and Cochinchina and redirected from Quinam.
*[[Tonkin]]/[[Dang Ngoai]] -- Most sources I've seen refer to the northern area controlled by the Trinh as "Tonkin" ... Either this article needs expansion, or the Dang Ngoai article should be created to parallel the Dang Trong one, if we make that one.

Confusing, yes. But I'm hoping that some movement can be made on this issue. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 11:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

== Han Tu characters and alternate names for the country. ==

I understand that Chinese characters are no longer used in Vietnam, but as the language is derived from them, I find them quite useful for understanding the meaning and origin of terms. To seek the origin of the word Annam not purely from its Western sound (which means nothing) but from its Chinese origins (安南 - "the peaceful south", an exonym used by the Chinese to refer to the tributary state to their south) reveals something interesting and useful, I feel. After some searching, I have finally satisfied my curiosity as to the character used for Viet - [[wikt:越|越]]. I understand the meaning behind Vietnam ([[wikt:越|越]][[wikt:南|南]]) and Dai Viet (大越), but I have just come across a reference to Dai Nam (大南). Is this simply a synonym, or does it refer to something else? [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 17:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
:During the Nguyen Dynasty, Gia Long asked the Qing Dynasty to change the ''Quốc hiệu'' (囯号) to Nam Viet, but was denied and changed to Viet Nam. In 1820, Minh Mang asked to change it to Dai Nam, but was not accepted; however, as the Qing grew increasingly weaker, the Nguyen Dynasty unilaterally used the name since 1839. It was used officially until 1945. Dai Nam means a large Southern nation. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 19:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

== Vietnamese name ==

I feel glad that a WikiProject for Vietnam has been established after all. There're a lot of things to do. However, I think that we should create a standardize form for Vietnam-related articles first. I have problem using the diacritic for Vietnamese names. For example, [[User:Sesel]] renamed [[Huynh Phu So]] to [[Huỳnh Phú Sổ]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huynh_Phu_So&diff=49885347&oldid=49885331] and recently [[User:Blnguyen]] has reverted the move [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huynh_Phu_So&diff=142406366&oldid=142406280]. [[User:DMG413]] performed the similar action as Sesel [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Xu%C3%A2n_Di%E1%BB%87u&diff=44139441&oldid=44138363] in article [[Xuân Diệu]]. I myself created article [[Nguyễn Nhật Ánh]] with diacritic. There's a [[Talk:Thích Quảng Ðức#Requested move|requested move]] for [[Thích Quảng Ðức]] and the result is "keep". IMO I support the diacritic pattern. We need a synchronization in the naming system. '''[[User:@pple|A]][[User talk:@pple|''W'']]''' 09:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
:The thing is, not everyone's keyboard supports the diacritical marks. I have seen a standard somewhere, that says for the English language Wikipedia, the marks should not be used. I will keep looking. [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris]] 09:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
::We have a free software [http://www.unikey.org/ Unikey] for solving this. In fact, this problem seems to be widely noticed that there's a impending guideline on [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Vietnamese)]]. '''[[User:@pple|A]][[User talk:@pple|''W'']]''' 10:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
:I say, if you know the diacritics, and you have a vietnamese typing program, then use the diacritics. But create a redirect without the diacritics. The trend is definately towards more respect for other languages' names. Standards that call for some languages like Spanish to be written with diacritics and other languages to be written without them, reflect a US-centric view of the world and should not be used in Wikipedia. If you can't be bothered to type the diacritics yourself then wait for someone else to fix it later. Even if diacritics are not used in the title, they should always be used in the article body if possible. Diacritics may seem silly to English speakers who don't speak the language, but they do mean the difference between Y and D for example, so they are important. I've read a lot of history books which left out the diacritics, and it is very annoying knowing these people's names but not being able to pronounce them because I don't know the diacritics. It was a pleasant change when I read Trần Mỹ-Vân's history book with diacritics on all the Vietnamese and French names (but not the Japanese or Chinese ones :-( ). If the spelling is identical to the English name, including spaces, then use diacritics. If the English spelling removes the spaces though, then maybe you should not use the diacritics (eg. Hanoi). [[User:CarlKenner|Carl Kenner]] 20:17, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
::I just downloaded WinVNKey, which works great (using Telex mode, which allows you to type a vowel, then an accent or dot or whatever, and it adds the diacritic immediately to the vowel, also in combination). It works better than Unikey for mẹ [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 08:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::You're funny Carl. It's not just a US-centric imposition, but an English-centric one. Last I check the website for the Australian embassy in Vietnam, they omit diacritics! :-) [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 16:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

== [[Annam (French colony)]] ==

I am at a loss to know what to do with the old Encyclopedia Britannica stuff in the above article. Should it stay where it is? Could some or all of it go into [[History of Vietnam]]? Or should it just be junked? Any suggestions welcomed, or just take bold action. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 20:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::My suggestion would be to incorporate it as best as you can. I wouldn't trash it, nor would I leave it alone. I've been thinking of doing something with this myself, but I really don't know when I'd get around to it - thank you much for noticing the problem, and please do feel free to be bold and go and fix it. Thanks!! [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 01:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:::To answer [[User:Badagnani]]'s question, raised as a note in the above article, the Vietnamese name for the area is not Annam because the French division of the country into Tonkin, Annam and Cochinchina is widely regarded as arbitrary and unjustified. And before the colonial period Annam was one of various Sino-Vietnamese names for Vietnam as a whole. Nowadays if people want to refer to the areas that were covered by the former colonies, they use the neutral terms Bac Ky or Bac Bo (northern region), Trung Ky or Trung Bo (central region) and Nam Ky or Nam Bo (southern region) - sorry I don't have the diacritics to hand. In view of this, I also think it is not correct to add the Han Tu version of Annam to this article, although it should definitely be in the article [[Annam (Chinese province)]]. The [[Annam]] disambiguation page explains it but if it is still confusing - the 19th century French are to blame, not us! [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 09:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Thanks for this; I would say that if the article is under Annam it's referring to the French colony. Chinese characters were still used by educated Vietnamese during the time "Annam" was used for this division of French Indochina. It's the question of why there's a different Vietnamese name. If it was a French colony why would it have a completely different Vietnamese name, Trung Kỳ (Hán Tự: [[wikt:中|中]][[wikt:圻|圻]])? If it's a different Vietnamese name, I'd say it's not referring to the same entity but instead a roughly matching geographical region. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 09:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::If we could get a translation of this text, maybe it would explain more about it:
::::*Trong lịch sử cận đại, "Annam" được sử dụng trong tiếng Pháp để chỉ phần đất Miền Trung Việt Nam (hay Trung Kỳ) do triều đình Huế của nhà Nguyễn cai trị dưới sự bảo hộ của Pháp. Do thời kỳ Pháp thuộc bị coi là một giai đoạn ô nhục của dân tộc, nên người dân Việt Nam thường hiểu từ "Annam" theo một nghĩa tiêu cực, mang hàm ý miệt thị dân tộc và vì vậy không thích sử dụng nó. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 10:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::*:Translation: "In modern history, "Annam" was used in French to refer to central Vietnam, the area under the administration of the Nguyen Dynasty under French protectorate. ''Because the period of French domination is considered a period of national shame, Vietnamese people usually consider the term "Annam" derogatory, used pejoratively towards the Vietnamese people, and do not use it.'' [[User:DHN|DHN]] 15:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Thanks, I've made a small change at [[Annam (French colony)]]. One more question: was "Trung Kỳ" used by Vietnamese as the Vietnamese equivalent name referring to the same colony as Annam, or was the name applied after the French were defeated? I'm guessing it's the latter. (Or was the term used during the colonial period as well, to spite the French?) If so, that should be made clear in the article. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 19:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Maybe it would help to determine the usage of "Trung Kỳ" to see what http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trung_K%E1%BB%B3 says. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 20:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::It dates it from 1834. And yes I think it was used by anti-colonial writers (as "Vietnam" was), but we would need a reference. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 20:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::"Nam Kỳ", "Bắc Kỳ", and "Trung Kỳ" had been in use administratively before French colonialism. In 1834, Minh Mang established the three regions. Nam Ky, divided into 6 provinces, is known collectively as "Nam Kỳ Lục tỉnh" (''6 Southern region provinces''). They were the same 6 provinces that were ceded to France and later becoming [[Cochin China]]. After 1945, they're called "Nam Bộ", "Bắc Bộ", and "Trung Bộ", respectively. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 21:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

== What's a top importance article? ==

Would it be useful to agree some basic guidelines here for assessing articles? My assumption is that top importance is reserved for a very small number of articles: [[Vietnam]], [[History of Vietnam]], [[Hanoi]], [[Ho Chi Minh City]], [[Vietnam War]], perhaps just a few more. Does that mesh with what others are thinking? Then high importance would be all the provinces, other cities, the archdioceses, major hospitals and universities, the historical dynasties, historical figures such as [[Ho Chi Minh]], [[Ngo Dinh Diem]] and [[Vo Nguyen Giap]], major tourist resorts, geographical features such as [[Ha Long Bay]], the former French colonies such as [[Cochinchina]]. I don't have particularly strong views about the classification but if we are going to make inroads into the assessment then some consistency might be useful. Thanks. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 19:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:I personally like the way it's described in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany/Assessment#Importance scale]]. I'm not sure if that helps any, of course, but it's the best guideline I've seen to date. [[User:Warlordjohncarter|John Carter]] 19:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:Yes, it does look good. Maybe we could pinch the table layout and find Vietnam-related articles for the examples. Their top class category seems a bit wider than the one I was thinking of in my last post - but it's the consensus and consistency that matters of course. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 20:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::[[Ngo Dinh Diem]] and [[Vo Nguyen Giap]] might be recentism. I would think that in the long run, [[Trung sisters]], [[Nguyen lords]], [[Trinh lords]], [[Le Loi]], [[Gia Long]] or [[Quang Trung]] had a greater impact. I guess Diem got under the skin of a few more people who were they to record the facts... I can't see how a hospital could be any more than low, unless it was architecturally important. But anyway...'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 00:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
:::Belated thanks to people for their comments above. I am going to start doing some more assessments, since the majority of our articles are still unassessed. I've been assessing all province articles as high importance and will continue unless there is any disagreement. Following Blnguyen's comment, I will categorise all hospital articles as low importance unless it is clear that there is something very special about that hospital. I also take the point about recentism, but surely anyone who has had supreme power in the whole country or a major share of it at any period is a figure of high importance? [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 23:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

== Han Tu ==
:::''Copied from project page

:'''''Comment''''' - I've put in [[Hán Tự]] for the ones I could figure out. I think it would be less obtrusive to put them in the box as they're not generally used in the modern day (though they're useful for historical and etymological purposes. Can someone figure out how to do that? If we could add a "literal meaning" section in the box as well that would be just great; most of the province names do have Sino-Vietnamese literal meanings though I think at least a few of the southern provinces are probably transliterations of Khmer or Cham toponyms. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 06:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::If they're shown at all, they must be made absolutely clear that '''they are no longer used'''. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 07:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
:'''''Comment''''' - I think it's similar to the condition of the Korean [[Sino-Korean]] [[hanja]]; though many younger Koreans eschew any use of those characters of Chinese origin, they do contribute immeasurably to an understanding of the words (and the names of most Koreans living today) they were formerly used to write. I do support getting the Han Tu out of the lead paragraphs and into the infobox or an etymology section (for the province articles, if we went with the latter we could use some boilerplate text about the Sino-Vietnamese origin of many/most of the province names). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 07:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::The situation in Vietnamese is much more extreme than in Korean. '''It is not taught at all in schools'''. Currently, there is absolutely no printed media that uses Han tu, either in personal names, place names, or dictionaries. Most people, young and old, do not know any Chinese character. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 07:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
:Hmm, interesting. Anyway, I'm fascinated by the etymologies of at least the major place names, and regardless of the decision the Vietnamese educational system has taken over the past 100 years (though I do believe some university students study the old characters, since someone needs to staff the national institute that preserves all of the nation's ancient literature written in this system) that our encyclopedia could be a good source of reference for these etymologies in an Internet where this information is extremely hard to find. Regarding young and old, I do know that my teacher knows the characters to his name and knows many others as well; I think he learned them during the 1950s and 1960s as a Buddhist monk in Vinh Long. Yes, I guess he's the exception, so our encyclopedia could actually help Vietnamese people learn more about this, if they want to. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 07:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::There's a particularly poignant poem written during the 1930s and later turned into a song that's sung during Tet about a ''ông đồ già'' ([http://www.ykien.net/nhvongdo.html translation]). An ''ông đồ'' is sort of like a scribe; during Tet, people would come to him and pay him to write down "parallel lines" of Chinese characters so that they could bring home to display in their homes. As the song goes, every year fewer and fewer people would use his service, and he sits alone in the middle of the marketplace until one year there's no ''ông đồ'' anymore. Buddhists are one of the few remaining groups of scholars who still study Chinese characters. I can recognize my name in Han tu (since I know what my name means), but my parents, who named me, wouldn't. I can recognize about 20 other characters, but that doesn't make me some sort of "Han tu scholar"...I just happen to pick them up from Wikipedia. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 08:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
:Wow, that is heavy. I've got to learn more about that song. Regarding names, I was wondering whether it was possible to figure out the meanings of people's names, but I'd guess if one's parents donŖ't know the characters maybe in some cases it's impossible? In Chinese, there are sometimes several different characters for "peace," "happiness," or whatever. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 08:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::Here's a slideshow of the song being sung with pictures of modern-day ''ông đồ'': [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QJRD640XbY&feature=related]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
:I wonder if the characters for ''ông đồ'' are [[wikt:翁|翁]][[wikt:徒|徒]]. [[Special:Contributions/24.93.170.200|24.93.170.200]] ([[User talk:24.93.170.200|talk]]) 03:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmmm. I definitely agree with Badagnani - the etymologies of placenames, personal names, and other words and terms is quite fascinating, and an understanding of the Chinese characters involved offers huge insights into these meanings and origins. I understand the assertion that these are not used in modern language ''at all'', and I do not disagree with the argument that they should, for that reason, not be present in the leading sentence. Still, for historical topics, i.e. anything that concerns a time when Han Tu were used, I think it would be extremely interesting and useful, if not exactly necessary, to include this information. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 10:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Finding out their etymologies is necessary for people using Chinese language. For example, ''Hà Nội'' means river interior, and we can trace that Hà (means river) is 河 in Chinese, but not 何/荷. Therefore, 河內 is the only correct translation of Hà Nội. Nevertheless, many placenames with the name ''Long'' (e.g. ''Vĩnh Long'' or ''Long An'') are translated in Chinese as 隆 (which means prosperity) currently, but I doubted that many of them should be 龍 (dragon). --[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:Do you have access to a library that has a book giving the original Han Tu for the province names? That would solve this problem. For [[Mekong Delta]], I'm sure it's "Nine Dragons" (九龍). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:33, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::Sorry, no. It would be great if you can provide them (at least the name of all provinces first). Interestingly, as far as I know, at least 17 places are called 九龍 in China, so there is of little chance that Cửu Long Delta would use 隆.--[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:::Yup, [[Kowloon]] is etymology the same as the Vietnamese name of the Mekong. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 19:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:I was asking you because I thought you're in Vietnam and would have more access to these kinds of reference books. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::I am from Hong Kong, a guy that currently get messed up by those names. In Chinese Wikipedia we don't use Quốc Ngữ as article names, so finding out correct Chinese names is the most important thing before an article can be built. --[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:OK, we'll do it. I think, though, that in some cases (especially for the province and place names in the far south), that the names aren't Viet, but come from the languages of minority groups (former majorities like Khmers and Chams). So the Viet Han Tu used in the 19th century may differ from the current transliteration used by the PRC, TW, or HK. My teacher is from Vinh Long, so I'm asking him about that right now. You may very well be right that it's not "dragon." [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::Just name a few - Bình Long, Càng Long, Hạ Long, Long An, Long Biên, Long Điền, Long Hồ, Long Khánh, Long Mỹ, Long Phú, Long Thành, Long Xuyên, Minh Long, Phước Long (Bạc Liêu), Phước Long (Bình Phước), Vĩnh Long. Many of them uses 隆 in Chinese articles nowadays (e.g. Vĩnh Long = 永隆), but some of them uses 龍 (e.g. Hạ Long = 下龍). For the names from Khmers and Chams, phonetic translations are okay.--[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 18:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::Urgently needed to find the etymology of Long Thành -- I don't know how to name this new airport. Thành can correspond to 成 (success) or 城 (city). The name Long Thành may get 4 plausible translations -- but 3 are wrong. --[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 18:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:[http://nomfoundation.org/nomdb/lookup.php This tool] is a good one for finding Han Tu, but it doesn't know the exact one for the place names. It just gives all the possible characters a given syllable could be. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:See new page at '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Han tu requests]]'''. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 18:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::Long Thành is the name of the town nearby, so I'm inclined to go with 城. Long is probably prosperity or dragon. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 19:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:My teacher, who is from Vinh Long, thinks it means "ETERNAL PROSPERITY" or "EVERLASTING PROSPERITY." But he said that the original Han characters have been wiped out from all government records. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 22:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
::What he probably means is that Chinese characters for place name are no longer recorded in government records, as is all written Vietnamese for the past 50 years. I don't think there's any concerted effort to eliminate Chinese written records. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 23:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
::Ah ha, the first sentence of [[Vinh Long]] and [[Vinh Long Province]] need to be changed then. -[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 09:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
:Yes...I think I'm the one who originally added that, so sorry about that... I'm in touch with the Nom Foundation and they are working on my request for the original characters used for all the "Long" place names. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
===The Search for Lost Maps===
This might be useful. [http://bp1.blogger.com/_NEnBLhxqVCk/R4zty0l0x8I/AAAAAAAAAPM/XbcYLyiloaw/s1600-h/DaiNamNhatThongToanDo(bando).jpg 19th Unified Dai Nam Map] from the National History Book of the Nguyen Dynasty. [http://paracelspratlyislands.blogspot.com/2008/01/old-vietnam-maps-drawn-by-vietnamese.html Source] [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 07:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

:How wonderful! Can we use Photoshop to rotate and upload it? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 07:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

:: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:19th-Unified-Dai-Nam-Map.png [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 16:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

== Article naming policy ==
There needs to be a consistent naming policy for article names of Vietnamese place-names and people. Currently some names are written without diacritics, while others have them. While I have no strong feelings toward one or another, we still need to come to a consensus about which format to use. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 00:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:Yes. This is listed as Task 3 on the main page, but nobody has commented yet. I think User:Vardion has some thoughts about this, first expressed back in 2005, which have to do with commonly used English (i.e. non-diacritic) spellings for some of the provinces, city names, and other place names. But many more place names are largely unknown to Americans than are well known (via the war or otherwise). Of course, Saigon, Hanoi, Dalat, etc. are usually given in English as single words rather than two, and without diacritics. But the provinces we have both ways. It's confusing. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 01:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
::No diacritics seems to be the convenient thing for me. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
:::There're plentiful of convenient softwares for you, Blnguyen. [[User:@pple|@pple]] 10:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
::I'd likely find it more convenient to not use diacritics, but at the same time I do believe that things on wikipedia should be spelled correctly, and that means including the diacritics. I wouldn't mind having to google terms in order to find somewhere to copy-and-paste the correct spelling. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 10:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
:::I support diacritics and at least Carl Kenner agreed with me. I think his reason is persuasive. [[User:@pple|@pple]] 10:04, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
::::It's not hard to make redirects from the non-diacritic spelling, which will take you from [[Nguyen]] to [[Nguyến]]. I'm using WinVNKey, which I just downloaded a few weeks ago, and it works great (for Vietnamese diacritics as well as French, German, Spanish, etc. ones). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 00:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Please see [[Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese)]] on this matter. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 06:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

== Collaboration ==
Does anyone want to start a monthly collaboration article or anything. One very bad article springs to mind....[[North Vietnam]].....oh and we just got another FA. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 02:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
:Good idea! [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris]] 03:33, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
::Good idea. Is this different than doing a translation of a vi:WP article? en:WP has done some good translations of articles from es:WP. Could be possibly start with some of the tasks that need doing, which have been outlined on the WPVN page? Like for example filling out some of the province articles which are just one or two sentences? We now have some good contributors who live in VN and have good sources, and vn:WP usually has more complete articles on VN-related subjects than we do. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 04:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
:::A list of articles need translation in newsletter? But I still wonder about the sources. Some individuals just won their fame within Vietnam boundary, so it's hard to find sources in English. According to [[Wikipedia:External links]], non-English materials should be avoided. I'm going to create article for [[Huy Can]]. He's prominent, but (sigh)... [[User:@pple|@pple]] 18:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
::::And more: Does anyone care about '''contemporary''' Vietnamese politicians rather than historical ones? [[Nguyễn Tấn Dũng]], [[Phan Văn Khải]], [[Võ Văn Kiệt]], [[Nguyễn Minh Triết]] etc. all in bad state now. [[User:@pple|@pple]] 18:16, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::Had a quick look at [[Nguyễn Tấn Dũng]] and it raises a couple of issues. 1) the subject's name is spelt Dzung at one point - I understand what the motivation is, but it is not acceptable to switch between different spellings in one article. It really needs a sound link to the pronunciation to be added. 2) Article uses both UK and American date styles - we should settle on one for the project. Although I'm British I guess that recent Vietnamese publications in English more often use the American style so there is a logic for adopting that. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 13:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::I'd second a collaborative effort for improving articles on some contemporary politicians. Not much is known about them, even in the Vietnamese-language Wikipedia. Most information that can be obtained about them are their official biographies on their Party activities prior to their current position. Their current views and policies are not really well-known unless they've already retired ([[Vo Van Kiet]]) or that they're involved in a scandal. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 00:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
::Both Dũng and Phục have unfortunate meanings in English. I think a footnote could be added after Dung to explain that the pronunciation isn't "Dung," but "Yung" (Southern) or "Zung" (Northern) [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 00:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
::Can we get back to the idea of a collaboration, which User:Blnguyen presented above? Just let us know which article you want us all to work on, and we'll get started. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 00:06, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Collaboration is a very good idea. Perhaps we could start with one of the provinces? I have finished assessing them all (as "high" importance). Many are still stubs. I would also like to suggest that we adopt a standard format for province articles. For example, the WikiProject India guidelines for articles on Indian states can be found [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indian_states here] and we could simply take that over as standard content for Vietnamese provinces. Note also that all the India-related articles use a standard style for spelling, dates and numbers. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 23:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
::This sounds like a good start. Pick a province whose article you feel is particularly deficient and outline some of the things you'd like to begin standardizing on the Indian model. Those of us who read Vietnamese can draw on vi:WP and Vietnamese sources, and we can also link each province's official govt. site (which I assume exist, just like for each province of the PRC). Perhaps some of our members in Vietnam can take photos or find maps as well. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 23:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
:Thua Thien-Hue Province could be a good place to start. Many editors are interested in the history, and some of this should be introduced in summary, although most of the detail should be under the Hue city article. It is only a short stub at the moment. I will introduce some headings and put heading-stub templates on them, if that is acceptable. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 18:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

==[[Kho]]==
Can anyone familiar with this dish help expand the [[Kho]] article? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 02:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

== Moves of all province articles away from diacritics to no diacritis ==
An editor named Sl has apparently [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20071001090911&target=Sl just moved all the province articles that had diacritics in the title to no diacritics], without discussion or consensus. Thoughts? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 16:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
:My thoughts are that above all we must be consistent throughout this whole project. My preference is also for diacritics, even though I don't yet know how to add them when I edit. Also that where there are diacritics in an article title there should be a redirect from the non-diacritic version.[[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 17:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Sl just did the opposite. We've got a discussion going on at the project page. I said that for Vietnamese Americans who don't use diacritics, we shouldn't use them in article titles. In other cases they might be desirable in article titles due to the different pronunciations of several letters between English and Vietnamese (such as "d"). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
:I think I misunderstood your post and I should have added my comments on the substantive issue of diacritic use in the proper place for that discussion. On SI's edits, I don't think they were helpful while the discussion is still continuing. It will be a lot of work to revert all of them and I think we shouldn't do that until we have quickly - and friendlily - reached consensus on the diacritics issue. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 17:33, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I've just dropped the user a line. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

::I have no idea. I just don't want to see that some places using diacritics as article names, while some articles are not. Please count me as neutral vote if such vote is held.--[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:54, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

You're right--some titles were with diacritics, and some had none. It's because we never arrived at a consensus yet. Thanks for your work here in enhancing usability between the vi: and en: Wikipedias. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

::Besides, some articles' name contain spaces, and some are not (particularly notable ones). Should they be consistent?--[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 18:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

In English Wikipedia we usually use the most common English rendering (i.e. Hanoi instead of Ha Noi). Or if it's an obscure place and there is no commonly used English rendering, we might use instead the way the province/city itself or the Vietnamese government refer to the name when discussing it in English on their official website or other publicity. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 18:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

:Similar incidences have occured at [[Can Tho]] and [[Can Tho Bridge]]. — [[User:Moe Epsilon|Moe]] [[User talk:Moe Epsilon|ε]] 17:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Can you explain in more detail? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:Sure. I began editing to improve the article on [[Can Tho Bridge]] after the [[Collapse of Can Tho Bridge]] occured. Noticing that the article's correct title was Cần Thơ Bridge, I moved the article there. From there I moved '[[Collapse of Can Tho Bridge]]' to '[[Collapse of Cần Thơ Bridge]]' and '[[Can Tho]]' to [[Cần Thơ]]' and I moved a related providence to the title with diacritics. I looked at the template listing all providences and cities in Vietnam, and noticed that the majority of the articles had used the naming convention ''without'' diacritics, then I read [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)]]. From that, I determined that Can Tho and all related articles should be moved back, so I undid my page moves. Other editors began moving it back to the title 'Cần Thơ Bridge' citing diacritics were alright for titles, and I reverted stating that 'Can Tho' is prefered over 'Cần Thơ' because of the large amount of Vietnam providences and cities titled without the diacritics. [[Talk:Can Tho Bridge|Their argument]] suggests that because there is no 'official English name for Cần Thơ Bridge', diacritics should be used. I stated that there apparently is some kind of consensus, because all the articles are titled without diacritics and pointed them here to discuss it if they wish to furthur pursue it. IMHO, 'Can Tho Bridge', without the diacritics, is an acceptable English spelling (despite it not being official). I don't normally like to do this, but I Google tested it because of the sheer differential. [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=C%E1%BA%A7n+Th%C6%A1+Bridge&btnG=Search Cần Thơ Bridge] pulls up 119,000 results while [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Can+Tho+Bridge&btnG=Search Can Tho Bridge] pulls up 1,630,000. Of that 1,630,000, some are Vietnamese websites or under a Vietnamese domain. That draws me to conclude that English spelling should be used for these articles titles. — [[User:Moe Epsilon|Moe]] [[User talk:Moe Epsilon|ε]] 18:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Please see [[Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese)]] on this matter. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 06:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

== Assessment classes ==

I've assessed [[Agent Orange]] as mid-importance and think that [[Agent White]] and the others should be low-importance. Do others agree? And what importance do we give to the articles on languages and language groups, e.g. [[Chamic]]. I don't want to assess too many that will have to be changed later. Thanks. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 20:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

== [[Mì Quảng]] question ==
What are the noodles used for [[Mì Quảng]] made from? Rice flour and turmeric? Any other ingredients such as wheat or tapioca flour? Does anyone have access to a package of commercially available noodles or can look this up in Vietnamese or ask someone who knows? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 06:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
:It has egg in it. and probbaly other stuff. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

== Châu Thành ==

I am interested why there are 9 counties in Viet Nam called Châu Thành. Anyone know? -[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Arrest_and_assassination_of_Ngo_Dinh_Diem]] ==
I'm hoping to get this to FA in time for November 2, when he was killed. There's never been a VN FA on the main page before. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

== [[Paddy field]] ==

The Vietnam section in the above article has been expanded, but the English is not good and in several places I'm not clear what is intended. Does anyone have time to help out? [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 21:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

== Help on Wiktionary ==

If anyone wants to help out in regards to checking Vietnamese translations on Wiktionary, it would be much appreciated - we're developing something of a backlog:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Translations_to_be_checked_%28Vietnamese%29
Any help would be great. Thanks! [[User:Black-Velvet|Black-Velvet]] 11:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

== Article in Vietnamese needs translation: [[Gia đình phật tử]] ==

There's a page written in Vietnamese, [[Gia đình phật tử]], which is on AfD right now because it has gone untranslated for a month. You can comment on whether it should be deleted here: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gia đình phật tử]]. (Cross-posted also to [[User talk:Blnguyen]]) [[User:Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh|Awyong]] [[User talk:Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh|Jeffrey]] [[Special:Contributions/Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh|Mordecai]] [[Special:Emailuser/Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh|Salleh]] 01:24, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Southeast Asian cinema task force|Southeast Asian cinema task force]] ==

The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Southeast Asian cinema task force|Southeast Asian cinema task force]] was recently started as a joint project of [[WP:FILM|WikiProject Films]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Southeast Asia|WikiProject Southeast Asia]]. Editors who are writing about [[Cinema of Vietnam|Vietnamese films]] are welcome to join the project, where they will find support for collaboration on new articles and the expansion and promotion of existing articles. — '''[[User:Wisekwai|Wise]]'''''[[User talk:Wisekwai|Kwai]]'' 11:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

== Vietnam people! Please see this map ==
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Qing_Dynasty_map.png ( Source from [[Qing]] )

Dark Green: Qing China

Light Green: affiliated states

Vietnam was affiliated states of Qing China? is it true?
[[User:Heinekenbeerlover|Heinekenbeerlover]] 13:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

::I'm sure it is. I don't know that much about the details of the history of that period, but as Viet Nam was long a part of the Sinosphere, I'd be surprised if that did not remain true into the Qing period. Whether they could be called a tributary, a vassal state, a colony, an ally, or anything like that I do not know, but Viet Nam was most assuredly within the Chinese cultural sphere as it had been for centuries. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 22:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Resolved.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AHeinekenbeerlover&diff=175978996&oldid=175464247] --[[User:Nightshadow28|Nightshadow28]] ([[User talk:Nightshadow28|talk]]) 16:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

== City infobox ==

It appears that an editor is attempting to create a Vietnamese city infobox at [[Thai Nguyen]]. While we have a province infobox, I don't believe we have a Vietnamese city one (though Vietnamese Wikipedia appears to). Can someone help him/her? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

== Huỳnh Công Út ==

The article on [[Huỳnh Công Út]], aka Nick Ut, starts with the explanation:

:
:''This is a [[Vietnamese name]]; the [[family name]] is ''Út''{{#ifeq: Út | Ut | | , but is often simplified as ''Ut'' in English-language text }}. According to Vietnamese custom, this person properly should be referred to by the given name ''Công ''or'' Nick''.''

Now, I read in [[Vietnamese name]] that ''Vietnamese names generally consist of three parts: a family name, a middle name, and a given name, used in that order.''

"Generally" doesn't mean "always". Is Huỳnh Công Út one of the exceptions, or is the explanation at the top of his article wrong? Anyway, what's the correct order for his Vietnamese name? If the article were to refer to him by his Vietnamese name (which in ''his'' case strikes me as pedantic), by which one of the three names should he be repeatedly referred? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 04:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
:The explanation on top of his article is wrong. Fixed. Huỳnh is a common Vietnamese name, but if you were to refer to him as a Vietnamese person (not applicable in this case since he lives in the US), he would be referred to by his given name, Ut. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 04:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
::Thank you! -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

== Lý Nam Đế ==
(Will also be posted to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China]].)
There is an anonymous editor who insists on (without discussion) removing Chinese characters and [[pinyin]] of [[Lý Nam Đế]]. Now, before I am to treat this person as a vandal, I'd like to get some general feelings about this. If you can, please discuss the issue on [[Talk:Lý Nam Đế]]. Thanks. --[[User:Nlu|Nlu]] ([[User talk:Nlu|talk]]) 05:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

== Unilateral article title changes ==
Alert, people--I know it's the holidays but [[User:JacquesNguyen]] is moving many articles unilaterally (typically adding diacritics to the new titles). '''See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JacquesNguyen edit history].''' There was no agreement on this previously; however, he does not participate in this WikiProject yet works on many Vietnam-related articles, where he has become known for massive blanking, use of bad language, and uncited copying of swathes of text from published history books in articles he has begun. Please turn your attention to this and take action if you believe it necessary. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 23:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
:He is still doing this. Is it not time for us to reach a consensus on the diacritics issue? I am generally pro diacritic on the grounds that people who speak Vietnamese or are learning it (even at a very basic level, e.g. for use on holiday) frequently need the diacritics in order to distinguish different words or even to get anywhere close to a comprehensible pronunciation. Therefore I don't particularly see the user's page moves as vandalism. We must keep a close eye out for any blanking, bad language or plagiarism though. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 09:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[:Category:Chinese chess players]] ==

This category name is highly confusing, since [[Chinese chess]] is the common English name for a different board game, and one would naturally expect it to be filled with players of ''Chinese chess''. Any suggestions on renaming it?
[[Special:Contributions/70.51.9.174|70.51.9.174]] ([[User talk:70.51.9.174|talk]]) 07:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
:How about ''Chinese chess (Xiangqi) players'' [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 11:50, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
See [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_January_5#Category:Chinese_chess_players]] for discussion. [[Special:Contributions/70.55.87.75|70.55.87.75]] ([[User talk:70.55.87.75|talk]]) 05:16, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories]] ==
I have recursively dug up all teh categories under [[:Category:Vietnam]] and I have made a request for {{User|SatyrBot}} to periodically sweep these cats and tag all of them with {{tl|WPVN}} which should make things a lot more convenient, so that we don't have to find as many new articles by hand. If there are other cats which are "fully" (or almost fully) containing WPVN articles, then feel free to add it to the list in Alphabetical order, so that there are no duplicates and double-runs by the bot. Thanks, '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

:That's great, thanks. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:44, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
::[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories2]] - these ones are not so obviously synonymous with WPVN and would have to be checked manually on a case by case basis.'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

SatyrBot has done the run on the first 100 cats and the number of articles in teh project has jumped by around 500! '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

== Vietnamese Americans etc in {{tl|WPVN}} ==
Hi there. Badagnani has added quite a few poker players and other people of Vietnamese descent with the Viet wikiproject and I was wondering what you thought about these being in the scope of the project. My personal opinion is that poker players, Vietnamese American politicians and businessmen shouldn't be in [[WP:VIET]] because they don't operate inside Vietnam/none of their notability is related to Vietnam (unless they were notable when they were still in VN). I think Vietnamese language singers, eg [[Nhu Quynh]] might be in the scope of the project since they are propagating Vietnamese culture. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
:There is an argument for including the politicians because their notability reflects upon the standing of the Vietnamese-American community. Nothing such for the poker players. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 09:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
::I reverted this on [[Ahn Do]] and [[Khao Do]], with the logic that being born in Vietnam but moving to Australia, residing in Australia, working in Australia, etc., means that they really don't fall under the scope of this project. Many (most?) Australian sportspeople are born in Europe; many of our football (soccer) players are born in Italy. But we don't tag them for [[WP:ITALY]]. The same should, I think, apply here. [[User:DHMO|Dihydrogen]] [[User talk:DHMO|Monoxide]] ([[Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane 2|''party'']]) 00:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Most of the poker players were born in Vietnam. It is important that they be tagged for WPVN, because they are Vietnamese people--and the WikiProject is for articles related to Vietnam, its culture and people. We don't have a WikiProject for "people who are from Vietnam, but live in a different country," so of course WPVN is the most appropriate WikiProject to place them in. WPVN serves as a tool to draw editors interested in Vietnam and Vietnamese culture and people to easily find and improve such articles. I am such an editor, and those articles are absolutely of relevance and interest. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
:No, the most appropriate project for "people who are from Vietnam, but live in a different country" is the project for the place they now reside in. [[User:DHMO|Dihydrogen]] [[User talk:DHMO|Monoxide]] ([[Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane 2|''party'']]) 02:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
::The country from which their notability is derived.....thus, US soldiers killed in Vietnam are listed under {{tl|WPVN}} since their notability comes from fighting in Vietnam, Overseas Vietnamese [VN born or not] who sing Vietnamese music are categorised as {{tl|WPVN}} whereas overseas Vietnamese (born in Vietnam or overseas) who do English language hip-hop or play poker are not. Whereas a US general leading troops in Vietnam or a German professor who is known for research into Vietnamese history would be {{tl|WPVN}} as well as their home country of operating, since they plan/work from their home country. A person who was only a kid in VN or was born overseas derives none of their notablity from VN simply from racial affiliation. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 02:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
:I think I can claim a mandate to remove these. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:13, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

== Chinese-derived scripts and Vietnamese names ==
This is becoming an issue. Some users, such as [[User:Badagnani]] and some nationalistic Chinese editors, indiscriminately add Chinese characters to Vietnamese proper names, regardless of their etymology and irrelevance. Other users, such as [[User:JacquesNguyen]] and his sockpuppets, attempt to remove all semblance of Chinese characters, regardless of its appropriateness. There needs to be a policy on this topic. To prevent misunderstandings, here are the facts:
*Chinese-derived scripts are '''totally absent''' in modern Vietnamese. This is in contrast to Korean, where students do learn them in school and Hanja characters are used, if only sparingly; or Japanese, where Kanji is regularly used. The chance of Chinese scripts making a comeback in Vietnamese is slim to none.
*Some proper names are pure Vietnamese words or are derived from non-Chinese languages.
*Most Vietnamese official documents prior to the 20th century were written '''in Classical Chinesse''', this resulted in some native names being approximated with a near-sounding Chinese character. Other writers used Nom characters to record the proper pronunciations of the names.

First of all, I think it is improper to use Chinese-derived scripts on place names or people that did not exist 100 years ago. Second of all, while I think it is proper to include information on how a certain name was rendered in the past, putting it in the lead sentence gives undue weight to what essentially is a trivial fact. Putting it there is more likely to misinform than inform readers - it implies that Chinese-derived scripts are somehow relevant and is still widely used. Lastly, mentions of Chinese characters should provide sources - since they seem to be pulled out from the Chinese Wikipedia. Some names derived from a non-Chinese language were transcribed in Chinese for administrative purposes, but modern Vietnamese provides a truer representation of how the Vietnamese pronounced those words. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:45, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

:To have a truly encyclopedic article, well-sourced original-script names are essential and extremely valuable to have a true etymology of each toponym (as we have, for example, for all of the U.S. states, many of whose names originate from other languages). Yes, some names derived from a non-Chinese language were transcribed in Chinese for administrative purposes, and these are also quite valuable to document for our users. The implication that any user who insists on complete documentation of the etymology of Vietnamese toponyms (as we do for all other place names in the world) is doing so out of some nationalistic purposes is quite disturbing, and should be taken back immediately. Many of these original sources (written in "nom" characters) still exist and preserve hundreds, if not thousands of years of Vietnamese history. As stated previously at least three times, the characters may be listed in a separate section entitled "Etymology" or "History," rather than in the lead. Finally, the characters added are not Chinese; they are Sino-Vietnamese. That is an important distinction. They were used in official documents written by Vietnamese, for Vietnamese, for Vietnamese use and reading. Asserting otherwise is disingenuous. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

:::But in the case of short articles, which is the case in most of these instances, the one sentence of etymology takes up about 25% of the article and makes it undue weight anyway. Clearly we are focusing on unimportant things too much. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Why is it in the lead sentence of all the province articles when the province structure was created under a modern government?? They should be removed or relegated. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Which article are you speaking of? In most place name articles, it might be better if the etymology is moved to a section titled "Etymology" or something similar. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
::I'm not calling you or anyone else who randomly add Chinese characters to articles about Vietnamese people (like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/137.222.52.41] this) nationalists. I'm referring to people like [[User:城市獵人|this guy]] who had been making edits that claim that the Vietnamese people originate from China. In vi.wiki, [http://vi.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Th%C3%A0nh_vi%C3%AAn:%E5%BD%B1%E6%AD%A6%E8%80%85&oldid=562353 he's] been adding Chinese characters to every single proper name imaginable. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 20:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I fully respect your motives Badagnani, but I have to agree with DHN on this one. I know that in the early 20th century every Vietnamese place name, even the smallest hamlet, had a name in Chinese characters, but that is only one aspect of the etymology of the place name. Giving the Chinese characters might imply that we think that this is a more important part of the place name's evolution than it actually is. It is a very interesting thing to research but I'm not convinced that WP is the best place for it. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

::::I happen to agree with Badagnani on this one, at least as far as it pertains to historical topics. As a historian of pre-modern East Asia with a strong interest in Viet Nam (and as someone who is pretty good with kanji but knows nothing of Vietnamese written in the modern alphabet-based form), I find these things very interesting, if not out-and-out important. What purpose is served by not providing this information? Are we not here to share knowledge with the world? Withholding the Hán Tự is no different I think from withholding the diacritics, pronunciation guide, or in fact, any other aspect of the topic whatsoever. More to the point, please don't jump to conclusions and accuse people of pushing a nationalist agenda, introducing politics into a situation where it may not be relevant. We have a policy on Wikipedia called [[WP:Assume good faith|Assume good faith]]. I suggest you consider practicing it. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 14:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

:::::I don't mind moving such information down in the articles to a section entitled "Etymology" or "History" or something, rather than including it in the lead (as it is currently in most of the province articles). Blnguyen is adding names of the districts now and those should have their place name etymologies dug up and given as well, as it seems clear that many of them have interesting etymologies. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 16:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Do please consider helping to insert the area size and population stats and other information before the Etymology please.... [[WP:UNDUE]] is becoming a massive problem. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 21:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

::::::It could be a good idea to put the Han tu names in Etymology sections. I wonder if there are enough good sources for place name etymologies. As I understand it, by the 19th century Vietnamese villages had to have a name that "made sense" in Chinese, at least to the extent that it could be written in characters. That led to some alteration of the originals that were either in Vietnamese or in a minority language depending on where they were located. I have some familiarity with English and French placenames. There is an English Place Names Society and there has been a great deal of research over the years. Even still, there are many folk etymologies still quoted in guidebooks. Also, there have been several disputes in WP over the etymologies of Indian town place names. It would be good if we could avoid that in relation to Vietnam articles. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 20:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Oh, God, no--multiple sets of characters for place names (old and new)? What a mess. Now I see why they went to quoc ngu. In any case, old sources do still survive so this can be a cumulative process. In many cases, such as [[Hạ Long]] or [[Cửu Long]], the place names are well known and easy to figure out (and, of course, interesting). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 21:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Hi, I have just removed your "Han Tu" note for [[Cửu Long]]. This province was created in 1976 when Vietnamese did not use Chinese characters for a long time, so why does it need that note. Maybe you misunderstand this province with the "river" [[vi:Cửu Long Giang]], in that case, a Chinese characters (九龍江) is necessary because it existed before 1945. [[User:Rungbachduong|Rungbachduong]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 00:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Shall we attempt to establish a set [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Style Guidelines|guideline]] on this? I would like to propose that Chu Nom be included, either in the lead sentence in parentheses or in a sidebar infobox as is done for [[CJK characters|CJK]] topics, for those historical topics whose names are derived from Chinese, and for which the Chu Nom is thus relevant. I'm not positive what the cut-off year should be, though, as I'm not that familiar with the history of the language. Of course, if people don't like my proposal (or my wording), other proposals should be most welcome. What is most important, I think, is that we establish a guideline, whatever form that may take. Thank you. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 10:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

:We should have a chữ nôm and hán tụ box with an explanation what they are and when they are relevant (for example, chữ nôm is relevant for historical documents dating between the 13th- and 20th-century). While I understand DHN's concern for irrelevance or misleading Chinese origins, the Chinese have documents that talk about Vietnam as well, and I find it frustrating to see articles like [[Nanyue]] written completely in pinyin which is spelled differently than using quốc ngữ. I have to raise my Chinese literacy level just to understand that [[Ōuluò]] refers to [[Âu Lạc]]. I see that there is a discussion of a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Vietnam#suggested_infobox suggested infobox] below. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 02:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== [[Districts of Vietnam]] ==
They should all exist now. Hopefully the lists I was using was correct. A double-check would be nice. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 00:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:This is incredible. Wish someone would do this for all the missing counties in China :) [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Well the articles were really basic and could have been written a bot. Then it would have taken about 2-3 hours instead of about 15-20. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::And {{User|SatyrBot}} has stamped them. Districts are 2nd level divisions in VN, and Phuong are 3rd level, about 10500 of them......As far as [[WP:AUS]] goes, third level divisions (suburbs, corresponding) have articles - most have been created. And with 10,500 phuong around, that makes about 8500 Vietnamese people to a phuong, so, they're notable too if anyone wants to get cracking. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:Well, just having the stubs allows users (including Wikipedians who actually live in these parts of Vietnam) to easily add information, more and more. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

==Need diacritics==
At [[Thach Thi Ngoc]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 05:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:This article lacks references and the person might not be notable besides being an Olympian. We need some record that shows that she was indeed an Olympian. [http://www.nguoi-viet.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=46345 This article] gives her name as "Ngọc Thị Thạch". [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
The article was added by [[User:Bnguyen]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:That user had been adding many articles on many non-notable people, such as "first Vietnamese-American solder to die in Iraq", "first Vietnamese-American police officer of a city", etc. When an article he created is about a notable person, his description of them does not make it clear how they're notable; for example, his description of [[Nguyen Khanh]] was that he was born in South Vietnam and is an ardent anti-communist. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
::And random council staffers in Garden Grove etc, etc. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 00:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

== TET! TET! TET IS COMING! ==

[[:Image:Banhchung.jpg|thumb|200px|right|EATTTT!!!]]
Hmm, am I the only one who feel overjoyed when Tet is coming? :)) Should we do something to celebrate the happiest time of the year? I have one week off, hooray!!! First we begin with [[banh chung]]. I found a very "delicious" image for those who find it impossible to colLect enough stuffs to make banh chung on their own. I can't find a free image, though, but I'll take a photo of my banh chung as my grandfather finishes cooking them all. [[User:@pple|@pple]] [[User talk:@pple|complain]] 16:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:The article [[Tết]] needs a serious overhaul. It has accumulated a lot of cruft over the years. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 17:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
::Write a few FAs, As and GAs. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 00:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

== Wikimedia inside Vietnam ==
@pple - are you in Vietnam? I was wondering what Wikimedia activities occur inside Vietnam to get more participation by Vietnamese people in Wikipedia projects. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

== Attention ==

An editor is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mayumashu removing] Vietnamese American categories. I believe Vietnamese who have lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years are usually U.S. citizens. Sometimes s/he is replacing "Vietnamese Americans" with "Vietnamese expatriates" and sometimes replacing it with "Vietnamese immigrants to the United States," but in all cases removing "Vietnamese Americans" from dozens of articles about individuals who are most likely U.S. citizens. Can others please chime in or invite this individual to create a discussion here before doing such a thing? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 04:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

== [[:Category:Immigrants to the United States]] ==
Hello. I m at work adding to [[:Category:Vietnamese immigrants to the United States]] to complete work on [[:Category:Immigrants to the United States]]. Several pages for Vietnamese in the U.S. are not specific on whether the person has gained citizenship or not. I ll take advice provided me and assume for now that people who have lived more than 5 years in the States have gained citizenship (including the large number of pro poker players most of whom seem to have arrived in the U.S. for poker and not because of the dislocation of the 1960s and 70s) Best regards [[User:Mayumashu|Mayumashu]] ([[User talk:Mayumashu|talk]]) 04:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks, why not just wait a day or two until others with expertise in this subject chime in here? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 04:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

:Well immigrants do not have to have citizenship to be considered immigrants. There is such as thing as "undocumented immigrants" (or more pejoratively, "illegal immigrants"). Regardless, they are still immigrants. There is also a sizable number of Vietnamese Americans who are lawful permanent residents but who are still working on getting their citizenship. The citizenship waiting list is backlogged, so it's not unusual to hear stories of people waiting for 10 to 20 years. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 02:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Need assistance with ingredients ==
Need help with partly-untranslated text at [[Mi Quang]]: "Pork chops are mixed with ground '''củ nén''', pepper, peanut oil, '''curcuma aeruginosa''' powder and '''màu điều'''. Stir- frying it fast and simmering it. (Need English for bold items.) [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 05:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
:The problem with the article is its lack of sourcing. Curcuma aeruginosa could well be a poor translation, when it is simply [[turmeric]] that is meant. I'm sure that [[pork chop]]s is a mistranslation and it is really ground or sliced pork that is meant. If you don't have access to the original, then it would be best to shorten the stub to the bits that seem certain. WP isn't a how-to manual, so we don't need to include all the ingredients. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the text will be fine when we figure out what the Vietnamese means. It's normal to list what is in Asian dishes. [[Turmeric]] should be ''củ nghệ'' in Vietnamese. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 19:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Operation Camargue‎]] ==
FAC for this battle in the [[First Indochina War]] is open. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 08:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

== Need help at [[Cao Lanh]] ==

Second paragraph seems to mention (redlinked) a province that no longer exists. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
:Since 1976, Vietnamese provinces have been merged, separated, remerged, re-separated, spun off, etc. countless times. For an analysis of the reasons behind this phenomenon and an overview of the changes made since French colonial times, see [http://comparativepolitics.stanford.edu/Papers2005-06/Malesky.Gerrymandering.10_10_05.pdf Gerrymandering - Vietnamese Style: The Political Motivations behind the Creation of New Provinces in Vietnam]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

== To be done ==
All the province articles need the correct district templates (the olive-colored ones that are in all the district articles) for that district.

Also, all the redlinks in all the province articles need to be dab'ed. Can that be done by bot? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

==Zodiac==
I recently created the pages [[water buffalo (zodiac)]] and [[cat (zodiac)]], then created a new category called Vietnamese astrology. I think this category should be added to the list of Vietnamese categories, but I do not want to do it because I'm not sure the best way.

Also, I added Vietnamese references to ALL the Chinese zodiac animals (see the categories at the bottom of [[pig (zodiac)]], for example). The close relationship between Chinese and Vietnamese zodiac animals makes it difficult to deal with. Should the Chinese zodiac animals be considered the same as the Vietnamese animals (except for water buffalo and cat), or should separate pages be created for the Vietnamese (and Thai, Japanese, etc.) animals, with cross-links to the Chinese pages?

Also, a table like the Chinese zodiac table would be nice:
{{Chinese zodiac}}

I do not know anything about Vietnamese culture, so I hope I have not made any errors in doing this. I will watch this page for a week or so. Best regards [[User:Wakablogger|Wakablogger]] ([[User talk:Wakablogger|talk]]) 06:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC) Wakablogger

== suggested infobox ==

{| style="float:right; border:1px solid; margin:5px"
|+ {{{boxtitle}}}
|-
|colspan=2 align=center| {{{img}}}
|-
! align=center bgcolor=lightgrey | [[English]]
| bgcolor=lightblue | {{{eng}}}
|-
|| [[Quốc ngữ|Quoc ngu]] || {{{qn}}}
|-
|| [[Hán tự|Han tu]] || {{{ht}}}
|-
|| [[Chữ Nôm|Chu nom]] || {{{cn}}}
|-
|| [[French]] || {{{fr}}}
|-
|}

-Suggested general historical infobox. say at [[template:vietnamese]] [[Special:Contributions/132.205.44.5|132.205.44.5]] ([[User talk:132.205.44.5|talk]]) 03:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Although some articles would be useful with [[template:chinese]] as many of the historical articles seem to cover southern China as well as northern Vietnam. [[Special:Contributions/132.205.44.5|132.205.44.5]] ([[User talk:132.205.44.5|talk]]) 04:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

== Needs diacritics ==
[[Chao tom]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 07:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:Done. Ím on the diacrtic comptuer atm with VNKeys. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|photo straw poll]]'') 07:34, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

==MongHoa dress==
Do we need an article on [http://www.flickr.com/photos/7914983@N02/1942931580/ this kind of traditional Vietnamese dress]? I can't seem to get the diacritics from the photographer--does anyone know them? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:There's a valley called "Mường Hoa" in northern Vietnam and I'm guessing that dress is a traditional [[Muong people|Mường]] costume. The model in the photo appears to be an ethnic Kinh wearing an ethnic costume of the Muong. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:12, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks; as you can see from the discussion, she claims it's entirely Viet. She's perhaps just a high school student and doesn't know better. If Muong, though, why didn't she put the "ư" in the first syllable? Personally, I think it's a form of malpractice for Flickr users to upload photos and fail to adequately describe them, even after being asked. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 19:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:If it's an ethnic Vietnamese dress, I'll eat my hat. One of the comments said "[it makes you] look more like an ethnic [minority] girl than a kinh girl". [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Definitely a minority ethnic costume. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|photo straw poll]]'') 00:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::I don't see where she referred to it as an ethnic Vietnamese costume. In other photos in the gallery where she's in that costume, she jokingly referred to herself as "Gái Bản" (''Bản'' girl)[http://www.flickr.com/photos/7914983@N02/1943146168/]. ''Bản'' is a Vietnamese term for a mountain village, particularly indicative of the minority ethnic groups of Vietnam (another useful word is ''nương'', referring to agricultural land in the mountains). [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

If anything, she was cagey. I asked if it was Mong (Hmong) or Hoa (Chinese), and she just said, "it's a traditional dress of my country." What she should have said was, "No, you got the wrong ethnic group; it's not Hmong or Chinese, but Muong." That would have been the clearest and most factual explanation. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 04:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== Đại Nam ==

What is the translation of Đại Nam? "Great South"? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 04:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Yes. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 04:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== SatyrBot ==

I'm not sure why, but this bot keeps adding {{tl|WPVN}} to the article [[List of Blood+ characters|List of ''Blood+'' characters]]. This article is a character list of the Japanese anime television series ''[[Blood+]]'' --'''[[User:TheFarix|Farix]]''' ([[User talk:TheFarix|Talk]]) 12:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:This seems to be some malfunction. The bot is tagging articles in the cats listed at [[User:Blnguyen/VN]] but I don't see any cats in there that would be triggering this. Can you? '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 00:11, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
::I see. [[Carl Fei Wang]] is categorised under Vietnamese manga, but redirects to the List article, and the bot seems to be following the cat in the redirect page and stamping the target page. I've removed the cat in the redirect. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 00:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:The other reason may have to do with story: A few episodes are set in vietnam and deal with the vietnam war and the main characters role in the slaughter of US troops and vietnamese civies. That may have something to do with it, but that is only a guess. [[Special:Contributions/75.26.19.213|75.26.19.213]] ([[User talk:75.26.19.213|talk]]) 04:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wok]] ==

Is there a vi:WP article for [[Wok]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:13, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

== Point of clarification ==
Should {{USS|New Jersey|BB-62}} be tagged as being within this projects scope? It was present for a year or so, hence the question. [[Special:Contributions/75.26.19.213|75.26.19.213]] ([[User talk:75.26.19.213|talk]]) 04:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:I think that should be ok, since a large chunk of the article is about the NJ's service in Vietnam. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 05:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::I didn't actually see it there in the talk history at all. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 05:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Does this mean that every ship that made a deployment to/off of Vietnam during the Vietnam War falls under the scope of this project? Even if they don't, I would believe that {{USS|Newport News|CA-148}} does since the last half of her service history was spent on the gunline off Vietnam. -'''[[User:MBK004|MBK]]'''[[User talk:MBK004|004]] 00:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:I haven't been tagging every soldier or every boat that was in Vietnam, and I haven't systematically checked yet, but if something spent 30% of their working/notability career in Vietnam, then that seems like a reasonable rule of thumb to me. The other exception was that there were a few soldiers whose bios sole notability was because of them dying in Vietnam and being posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor so since all their notability was from activities in VN, they were blanket included included. As were the recipients of the "Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry" although most of them were Americans who were awarded by the RoV govt. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 01:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
::eg, there were some Infantry units that were categorised as "Units in the Vietnam War" but I skipped over it because the VN War section was about 10% of the article. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 01:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:::That makes sense. By the 30% threshold, Newport News does apply (not tagged for this project as of this edit), but I'm not sure about the carriers that were on Yankee or Dixie Station. -'''[[User:MBK004|MBK]]'''[[User talk:MBK004|004]] 01:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm going to be bold and tag Newport News for this project, per the 30% threshold. I'll leave the assessment to the members of this project. -'''[[User:MBK004|MBK]]'''[[User talk:MBK004|004]] 01:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Hi, all. A {{User|SatyrBot}} tagged the article [[Iowa class battleship]] as being within this projects scope, I'm guessing as a result of the tagging of ''New Jersey'' for her role in the vietnam war. As Iowa class battleship is presently a Featured Article I wonder if I may imposes upon one of this projects members to fill in the importance of the article to this project? I am not familar with you importance scale, and I doslike leaving empty parameters in talk page banners when the article in question is Featured. Thanks in advance. [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] ([[User talk:TomStar81|Talk]]) 08:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::I removed it as a false positive and put a repel notice on the page. The bot was tagging based on the VN war cat, but in this case, teh article has only a minor mention of vietnam. Less than 5%. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 09:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

== Cochin reference in primary source ==

I apologize to ask a question not directly related to our Wikiefforts, but I am hoping that someone can help me out. I am currently reading a Japanese [[Tsūkō ichiran|primary source document]] concerning relations between Edo period Japan and pre-colonial Vietnam. I have come across a reference to 交趾 (Giao Chỉ; the "Cochin" of Cochinchina), and while the editor's notes in my text explain that this refers to the capital of "Annam" at the time, I am not quite clear whether it refers to the Le, Trinh, or Nguyen capital, or whether it is something of a metaphor for the Trinh north as a whole, Nguyen south as a whole, or both together, i.e. Vietnam as a whole.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated. Thank you. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 06:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
::Just in case it might be helpful to anyone, here's the original text I'm working from: 「慶長六辛丑年より、海外数ヶ国入貢、夏交趾舶来る、當御代海舶の来る始なり」With the inscribed editor's note: 「按ずるに、前に辨せし如く、交趾は安南の都城の地なり」. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 06:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know much, the only book I have about that time is "Nguyen Cochinchina" by Li Tana, which talks at length between the strong trading relations between the Nguyen and the Japanese, especially through the pot of [[Hoi An]] (aka Faifo). In the old days, Cochinchina meant Nguyen territory in general. I dunno when Edo is either, but this commerce was in the 1600-1650 year range. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 06:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
::Sorry. I should have specified what I meant by Edo period (1603-1868). I've read Li's book - it's very useful and interesting. The problem is that my Japanese dictionary indicates that the term 交趾 refers to Tonkin/Hanoi, while everything else I know (such as the Western use of the term Cochinchina) points to the southern portion of the country. ... [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 00:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

== SatyrBot issue ==

[[User:SatyrBot]] is auto-adding the [[Template:WPVN]] on the [[Talk:Policies, activities and history of the Philippines in Spratly Islands|talk page]] of article [[Policies, activities and history of the Philippines in Spratly Islands]]. I believe that article is not covered by [[WP:VIET]]'s scope. It's about Philippines only. Read my conversation with [[User:SatyrTN]] [[User_talk:SatyrTN#Bot|here]], for my arguments why that article is not covered with your scope. The template is not yet deleted, I'll wait for your reply. Thanks [[User:Estarapapax|Estarapapax]] ([[User talk:Estarapapax|talk]]) 16:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, a false positive. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 03:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

== FACs ==
*[[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Double_Seven_Day_scuffle]]
*[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team (United States)]]

Are substantially about Vietnamese history. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 04:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Undiscussed page moves (again) ==

Once again, we've got an undiscussed page move ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=C%E1%BA%A3_River&diff=199921550&oldid=188306163 here]) to a title with diacritics, by an inveterate undiscussed-page-mover. Is this going to continue? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:44, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
:To support Vietnamese tone marks. The one who doesn't know this is not intellegence. Also, this one hates me so he tries to eliminate me. [[User:JacquesNguyen|JacquesNguyen]] ([[User talk:JacquesNguyen|talk]]) 01:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think diacritics should be used on things that are half English, eg [[Ca River]], since River is clearly English. Same for provinces. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 01:03, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
:::No-one here hates anyone, Jacques Nguyen. I support diacritics and wish we could agree to use them consistently throughout - including in cases when half the word is English. But I'm looking for consensus on this. Let's discuss it properly and not fall out. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 20:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
:::That would mean we would need to omit the diacritics on [[Hồng Bàng Dynasty]] and just about every other dynasty listed in the [[history of Vietnam]]? The only reference to '''Cả River''' when I googled for it is the Wikipedia article itself (hah! go figure). '''Ca River''' is mentioned in the Encyclopedia Britannica as well as [http://www.mekonginfo.org/mrc_en/doclib.nsf/0/87FE88C624F03E6B472568CD0015AC86/$FILE/9LS_Thongmanivong_Final.html this paper] from the National University of Laos. I'd like to build up a consensus on this issue on this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_%28Vietnamese%29#Article_Title talk page]. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 04:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Need location ==

What is the modern-day location of "Sa Nam village, Ðông-liệt District, in the region between Mount Hùng and the Lam River," the birthplace of [[Phan Boi Chau]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
:[[Nghe An Province]] somewhere. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 01:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

== FACs ==
*<s>[[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Nguyen Ngoc Tho]]</s>
**Passed. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 06:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
*<s>[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Early life and military career of John McCain]]</s>

Are substantially about Vietnamese history. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

*[[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/State of Vietnam referendum, 1955]]. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
*[[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/1962 South Vietnamese Presidential Palace bombing]]. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 06:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== "Bac Thai" Province ==
Hello. I'm researching the Tonkin Snub-nosed monkey, a monkey species endemic to Northern Vietnam. [http://www.animalinfo.org/species/primate/pygaavun.htm Animal Info] says it only occurs in "Tuyen Quang and Bac Thai provinces". I can find [[Tuyen Quang Province]], but there is no [[Bac Thai Province]] or anything similar. Was it renamed? Or is it a spelling error? Thanks if you can help me --[[Special:Contributions/80.108.59.151|80.108.59.151]] ([[User talk:80.108.59.151|talk]]) 09:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC) ([[:de:Benutzer:Bradypus]])

:[[User:DHN]] points out that there has been an epidemic of politically motivated province-splitting that the government of Vietnam has conducted over the past 30 years. If you look at [[Provinces of Vietnam]] you'll see two small provinces adjacent to Tuyen Quang Province: [[Bac Kan Province]] and [[Thai Nguyen Province]]. They probably used to be a single province. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 09:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

:Here's some confirmation of this: [http://books.google.com/books?id=Z8jzpQoVEtoC&pg=RA1-PA302&lpg=RA1-PA302&dq=%22Bac+Kan%22+%22Thai+Nguyen%22+%22bac+thai%22&source=web&ots=MNt3vTBzja&sig=nlkvCUOjIYHivAuF87dxcyjP1KU&hl=en]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 09:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks for your help, Badagnani. You were right, according to [http://www.theprimata.com/pygathrix_avunculus.html this website], which I found right now, Bac Thai have been split into two provinces: Bac Kan and Thai Nguyen. But thanks nevertheless. --[[Special:Contributions/80.108.59.151|80.108.59.151]] ([[User talk:80.108.59.151|talk]]) 11:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

== CJKV taskforce ==

The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation/CJKV taskforce|CJKV taskforce]] has been created to assist in disambiguation of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese when using [[Kyūjitai]], [[Hanja]], [[Hán tự]], [[Simplified Chinese]], and [[Shinjitai]] ([[Kanji]]). If you wish to participate, please come and help out. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|日本穣]][[Help:Japanese|?]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] 18:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[24 solar terms]] ==

Does the article [[24 solar terms]] need to be added to the project? I would find it useful if someone could comment on the relevance of this concept in contemporary Vietnam and/or the diaspora. I found it linked at [[Cross-quarter day]], where European and east Asian calendars are linked in some pure [[WP:OR|original research]]. Thanks. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:They are rarely-used but are often-heard-of concepts. One popular misconception is that the dates are based on the Chinese calendar; this is not so: solar terms are purely based on the movement of the sun, so the dates will be the same (give or take a day) every year in the Gregorian calendar - it's the Chinese calendar dates that will vary each year. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 15:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::I knew you would know. Please add the project banner to the article if you think it appropriate. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 19:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Question: "Thin-Hao" near or part of Hanoi ==

I have a question. There is a French chessplayer (and half-Vietnamese) [[César Boutteville]], born 1917 in "Thin-Hao" near or part of Hanoi. I could not find anything about this town or village which is probably nowadays a city quarter of Hanoi. It has probably a different name today. Can anybody help me? --[[User:DaQuirin|DaQuirin]] ([[User talk:DaQuirin|talk]]) 17:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:Perhaps that name is a corruption of [[Thanh Hoa]] (it's always been Thanh Hoa). [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 21:14, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you for your quick reaction. It seems to be a distorted name. But in the available sources it is stated that he was born in the outskirts of the city (''né dans la banlieue de Hanoï''). So "Thin-Hao" should nowadays be part of the city!? [[Thanh Hoa]] seems to be a bit too far off (or the French get it wrong, but the man is still alive and they should know...). Is there a place in the internet to find some historic map of Hanoi region from the French colonial period? --[[User:DaQuirin|DaQuirin]] ([[User talk:DaQuirin|talk]]) 01:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I asked over at vi.wikipedia and [[:vi:User:Dung005]] answered that it's probably Thịnh Hào village. Nowadays it's called ngõ Thịnh Hào in Hàng Bột Ward, Đống Đa District, Hanoi. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 01:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Great, you both found the solution! Thank you very much indeed. --[[User:DaQuirin|DaQuirin]] ([[User talk:DaQuirin|talk]]) 02:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

==Vietnamese people in Taiwan==
Hello everyone, I nominated [[Vietnamese people in Taiwan]] (include "en:" and other languages) as a candidate in [[m:Translation of the week/Translation candidates|Translation of the week]]. :) [[User:Luuva|Luuva]] ([[User talk:Luuva|talk]]) 15:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

==Need Vietnamese name==
Need Vietnamese name for [http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/attachments/month_0704/1138985266886_fg2RooKKmU6d.jpg this type of drum]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:Toy drum? [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:56, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
It has a name in about 6 other Asian languages, so most likely also has one in Vietnamese. The term "toy drum" could refer to other varieties of small drum for children. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

== Diacritics needed ==
Diacritics needed in Vietnamese name of [[Tila Tequila]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:Any name given will be pure speculation unless she states it herself; which is not very likely. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Some of us have better Vietnamese-language skills to search on Vietnamese-language websites then others of us. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:AFAIK she's never given any interview to any Vietnamese-language publication and Tila seems to be the name she's used since childhood. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
So where does the diacritic-less Vietnamese name come from? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 07:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:Either she gave it in some interview, it's written in some legal document, or someone made it up (most likely). [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:If you want speculation, here are some possible names, ranked by decreasing possibility: Nguyễn Thị Thiện Thanh, Thiên Thanh, Thiên Thành, Thiện Thành. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Better add a citeneeded tag, then. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 07:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

== Caucasians in Vietnam ==
Can someone help at the question just posted [[Talk:List of ethnic groups in Vietnam|here]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think this is going to be very difficult to answer. "Caucasian" defines a race rather than an ethnicity. Obviously there are people who have moved to Vietnam in recent years from Europe, North America and Australia and most of these could be called "Caucasian", though they might not want to be called that. Some are expats (intending to return to their original countries), others have sought naturalisation. I don't think the expats should be counted as among ethnic groups of Vietnam since they are not citizens. As for the naturalised people, I don't know if they identify as American-Vietnamese etc. or just as Vietnamese. And on top of all that, are any statistics collected? [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 17:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::They'd most likely be considered "undistinguished ethnic groups," as the [[Undistinguished ethnic groups in China]]. They can be listed at [[List of ethnic groups in Vietnam#Ethnic groups not included in official list]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 17:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Vietnam in the Dutch Empire ==

Hello everyone! There is a discussion at [[Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map]], because user [[User:Red4tribe|Red4tribe]] has made a map of the [[Dutch Empire]] ([[:Image:Dutch Empire 4.png]]) that includes significative parts of Vietnam. Would you like to comment? Thank you. [[User:The Ogre|The Ogre]] ([[User talk:The Ogre|talk]]) 15:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

New Map
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dutch_Empire_new.PNG
http://www.colonialvoyage.com/ square=tradingpost
([[User:Red4tribe|Red4tribe]] ([[User talk:Red4tribe|talk]]) 16:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC))
:Still OR, POV and unsourced (yours is not not a credible source). Please discuss stuff at [[Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map]]. This was just a request for comment, not a discussion. Thank you. [[User:The Ogre|The Ogre]] ([[User talk:The Ogre|talk]]) 16:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

==Deletion proposal==
See [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2008_April_27#Template:Chinese]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 14:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== FACs ==
*[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Le Quang Tung]]
*[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ngo Dinh Can]]
'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
*[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Krulak Mendenhall mission]]
'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 06:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

==China and PRC articles request to be renamed==
User:SmuckyTheCat is requesting that [[China]] be renamed, and replaced by the [[People's Republic of China]] article at "China". This will greatly affect articles that use the link to [[China]] to refer to Imperial China, as they will need to be fixed. [[Special:Contributions/70.55.88.176|70.55.88.176]] ([[User talk:70.55.88.176|talk]]) 08:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

== Satyr ==

Have you replaced [[User:SatyrTN]]'s [[User:SatyrBot]]? We at [[WP:CHICAGO]] are looking for a replacement since he is no longer active. Please respond at my talk page.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] ([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) 18:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested ==

Within [[WP:COMPANIES|WikiProject Companies]] I am trying to establish guidelines for all [[:Category:Lists of companies by country|Lists of companies by country]], the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Companies/Lists of companies by country|here]]. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - [[User:Richc80|Richc80]] ([[User talk:Richc80|talk]]) 14:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

== Deletion discussion ==

See [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dee Luong]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== Requests for ratings ==

Is anyone looking at these? I ask as I just added two to the page and noticed that the previous two had been added ''months'' ago. [[User:IainP|IainP]] [[User talk:IainP|(talk)]] 08:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Bắc Cạn]] ==
At [[Viet Bac]], [[Bắc Cạn]] is mentioned. Is this an alternate spelling for [[Bac Kan Province|Bắc Kạn]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 21:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:Yes, the initial "K" sound is not proper Vietnamese, but used officially probably to give an "ethnic" feel. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 22:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Chà bông ==
Should ''chà bông'' (also called ''thịt chà bông'') have its own article or should it just redirect to [[Rousong]]? For [[Tofu]] or [[Soy sauce]] we have a single article but, for example, for foods that are significantly different we have separate articles for [[Miso]], [[Doenjang]], and [[Tương]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 21:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

:Only if there is a notable difference, which I don't find to be the case. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 20:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

==Phở tái lăn==
''Phở tái lăn'' is mentioned at the [[Pho]] article, but what is the literal meaning of this name? A Vietnamese person has told me that such a name doesn't exist, but I do see it online. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:''tái'' means to cook rare. I'm not sure what ''lăn'' refers to in this case - it literally means "to roll". [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 00:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds like the way the meat is prepared. I've been to a few phở restaurants where phở tái are different. Some are prepared with thinly slice meat, while others are more like chunks of meat, which is more typical of the way it is prepared in Northern Vietnam. I suspect Phở tái lăn merely refers to the Northern Vietnamese way of serving Phở tái. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 20:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Is this findable? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

::Really? I am from Northern Vietnam and there they have all ''phở tái lăn'', ''phở tái gầu'', ''phở tái nạm'' whose names depend on quality of beef. @ Badagnani: Almost Phở restaurants in Hanoi serve ''tái lăn'', not sure about other cities (and other countries), best regard :). [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 19:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

:Thank you; can you tell us what ''lăn'' means (is it in your Vietnamese dictionary)? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:What do ''phở tái gầu'' and ''phở tái nạm'' mean, and should these terms be added to the article? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

::I think ''phở tái lăn'' can be translated as ''phở with briefly fried beef'', for the other two ''gầu'' and ''nạm'', I will find answer from my friends because I am not sure how they serve them (I am not in Vietnam now). [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 02:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:Thank you, also the meaning of ''lăn'' will be great. Do you not have a good Vietnamese dictionary there? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::As [[User:DHN|DHN]] said, ''tái'' is rare beef. They serve rare beef by some ways. ''Tái lăn'' is rare beef by frying it for very short time (so ''lăn'' can be called ''briefly fry''). For others, I find [http://flail.com/pho.cong.ly.html this web] with good definition of ''tái nạm'', ''tái gầu'' and ''tái sách''. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 14:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

==Page move request==
See [[Talk:Nanyue#Requested_Move]] [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 12:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

==About the article [[Hoa]]==

The article [[Hoa]] needs urgent attention by an expert. It has been compromised by serial systematic bias. [[Special:Contributions/122.105.150.76|122.105.150.76]] ([[User talk:122.105.150.76|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
:What do you have against it? It seems that you keep making assertions without backing them up with reliable sources. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:36, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

== Article [[Aodai]] ==

I've done quite a bit of editing on this article recently and I plan to nominate it as a "good article." Check out and see if you can improve it before it gets nominated. Also, someone other than me has to evaluate it. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 18:11, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

:'''Update''': The nomination is on the board now. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 17:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

::Kauffner, can you find better [[WP:RS]] sources, like a book about Vietnamese culture from a proper publisher. Because a lot of the sources you quotes were from blogs or self-styled websites and the GA reviewer will likely ocmplain. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:04, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

== colonial eras ==

The articles [[Annam (Chinese Province)]], [[Annam (French protectorate)]], [[Tonkin]] are somewhat mixed up. The French Annam has information more appropriate to the Tonkin article, or the Chinese Annam article. Further, there's more spillage into the [[Cochinchina]] article. I think the French protectorate/colonies should be clearly delineated in their coverage, and the Chinese colony/province article also, so that each more properly focuses in their area, instead of replicating [[History of Vietnam]]. North of Vietnam, Center of Vietnam, South of Vietnam should be the "whole" overview articles on the three zones.

*[[North of Vietnam]] - Tonkin, Chinese Annam, North Vietnam, Northern Vietnam
*[[Center of Vietnam]] - Champa, French Annam, the N/S border, Central Vietnam
*[[South of Vietnam]] - former Cambodian lands, Cochin, South Vietnam, Southern Vietnam
* etc.

[[Special:Contributions/70.55.87.181|70.55.87.181]] ([[User talk:70.55.87.181|talk]]) 13:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:"North of Vietnam" doesn't sound like real English to me. The natural way to express this thought would be "North Vietnam," "Central Vietnam," and "South Vietnam." But those names mean something different because interest in Vietnamese history is so focused on the war years. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 16:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

::What's wrong with [[Northern Vietnam]], [[Central Vietnam]], and [[Southern Vietnam]]? [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 16:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:::That could work. Right now they're redirects, though the [[Northern and southern Vietnam]] article defines only two regions, when historically, there were three cultural-geographic zones (China/Tonkin/North, Champa/Center, Cambodia/South). [[Special:Contributions/70.55.202.181|70.55.202.181]] ([[User talk:70.55.202.181|talk]]) 23:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

::::And the Mien Trung article leads to the central highlands only and not teh central coast. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

::For the U.S., it's the [[Northern United States]] and the [[Southern United States]], even thought the vast majority of Americans would say "the North" and "the South." The articles themselves follow this usage in their text. I would suggest a similar solution here. The main reason for dividing Vietnam into three regions isn't so much the history, but because the Vietnamese language has three major dialects. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 05:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

We need these articles, because it's better than all these links to Tonkin, Annam and CC to mean a general region. Although using T A and CC for the specific colony is fine. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:06, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

== Articles flagged for cleanup ==

Currently, 766 of the articles assigned to this project, or 18.2%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of {{date|2008-06-18}}.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See [[User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings]] for details. Subsribing is easy - just add [[User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription|a template]] to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at [[User talk:B. Wolterding|my user talk page]]. --[[User:B. Wolterding|B. Wolterding]] ([[User talk:B. Wolterding|talk]]) 17:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

==Edit Warring at [[Nanyue]]==
Urgent attention is needed at [[Nanyue]] to prevent continual edit warring. User Webster121 suspected of vandalising article to advance pro-Vietnam views and utilising sockpuppetry to facilitate his serial policy violations. [[Special:Contributions/122.109.98.117|122.109.98.117]] ([[User talk:122.109.98.117|talk]]) 03:06, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

==Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme==

As you [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2008-06-23/Dispatches|may have heard]], we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment|WP:ASSESS]].
*The '''new C-Class''' represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
*The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment/B-Class_criteria|a rubric]], and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
*A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment/A-Class_criteria|described here]].

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at [[:Category:C-Class_articles]]. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Index|The bot]] is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please [[Wikipedia_talk:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment#WikiProject_responses|leave a message]] with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team|1.0 Editorial Team]], [[User:ShepBot|'''§hepBot''']]''' ([[User talk:ShepBot|Disable]])''' 21:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article needing some translation ==

[[Le Quang Nhac]], an article about a Vietnamese composer is listed in the articles in need of translation. Some of the text is badly translated, some still in Vietnamese. I'll tag it for the project. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 21:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

== Nguoi o lại Charlie ==

There are currently no articles for either [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAebo3laIgk "Nguoi o lại Charlie"] (At Charlie, the men stayed) or [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26NkXQvvPMI "Hat Tren Nhung Xac Nguoi"] (Singing above the bodies), two popular war songs. I hope we can correct this. Listen to "Singing above the bodies." You won't forget it. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 04:19, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

:[[Trinh Cong Son]] wrote countless songs about the war, among them ''Bài ca dành cho những xác người'' (''Song for the corpses''), ''Gia tài của mẹ'' (''A mother's legacy''). You can find translations for some of the songs [http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~nguyenvu/Artists/TC_Son/VT_Music_TCSon_songs.htm here]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 04:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

::I put a link to a recording of "[[Hat Tren Nhung Xac Nguoi]]" on Son's page. The name of song is now redirects there. But "Charlie" still needs a home. Did Trần Thiện Thanh write anything else worth mentioning? I think song is much more famous than either the singer or the writer and in that case information about it should be under the name of the song.
::The translations don't do much for me. Music needs to be heard. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 08:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

:::I think this is putting undue weight on one song out of hundreds of his songs. The song is not necessarily a tribute to the massacre victims, and its purpose might have been hijacked for use not intended by the author. [[:vi:Trần Thiện Thanh|Trần Thiện Thanh]] was also a noted songwriter. He wrote over 100 songs, among them the most famous are: ''Chiếc áo bà ba'', ''Chiều trên phá Tam Giang'', ''Anh không chết đâu anh'', etc. Like many musicians who stopped working or who left Vietnam after 1975, he is largely forgotten within Vietnam (and probably unknown in northern Vietnam), but his works are regularly performed in overseas Vietnamese communities and some other (those not overtly about the war) are performed in Vietnam itself. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 08:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

::::I suggest making an en:WP article for Thanh, and also for making a list of Son's songs, either at Son's article or at a separate article, the way we do for Mozart or any other composer. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 08:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

:::Son finished writing the song on Feb. 28, 1968. He was living in Hue at that time and the massacre had just ended. What do you think was on his mind? [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 13:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Protracted fighting in Hue caused massive civilian casualties. I don't think the mass graves were discovered until much later. His other song about the Tet offensive, ''Bài ca dành cho những xác người'', described corpses lying everywhere - not being put in mass graves. The song never specifically mentioned the massacre. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 15:11, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

== Attention ==
[[User:Kinh Duong Vuong]] ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kinh_Duong_Vuong contributions]) is changing numbers in articles (particularly numbers of forces in various battles), always without comment or sources. Our encyclopedia has to be trustworthy but as this editor never makes comments or adds sources for such changes, I would ask that other members of this project keep a watchful eye on his/her contributions. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

== Wikiproject suggestion ==

There was a proposal for a China/Korea/Japan relations wikiproject. I suggested that it be expanded to also include Vietnam. [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Wikiproject_Sino-Japanese-Korean_relations]] [[Special:Contributions/70.51.9.25|70.51.9.25]] ([[User talk:70.51.9.25|talk]]) 05:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

==Dodgy edits at [[Talk:Nanyue]]==
An IP editor has been inserting highly inappropriate comments at [[Talk:Nanyue]] under various IP addresses. Urgent attention is needed to combat their serial racial abuse and condescending claims that the Cantonese people are not closely related to the Vietnamese people. The IP editor has been suspected of being a sockpuppeteer. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 05:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

==Project talk page tagging==
'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' had [[User_talk:Tinucherian#Project_talk_page_tagging|requested me for the]] service of [[User:TinucherianBot|TinucherianBot]] to tag articles in the categories in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories]] for the WikiProject Vietnam. I request the members to kindly have a look and to carefully verify ALL the categories and remove all the possibly wrong categories. Dont misunderstand by being cautious here , as we have faced many issues with such huge scale bot tagging before (see [[WP:BON#TinucherianBot]] ). Once I get the final go ahead, I will start the bot with the final list. Thank you for choosing [[User:TinucherianBot|TinucherianBot]] for the project,. It is a pleasure working for this project -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 05:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

: I am leaving a msg on the talk pages of all members -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 05:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::For example, [[:Category:Yi people]] has mostly China-related content. We should be cautious about some of these. Also, the history categories may include things like [[World War II]], which shouldn't be tagged with WPVN. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for not being a subject expert on Vietnam. But I am sharing below some of the categories found in the list. Can someone see if the categories mentioned are relavent to be completely tagged ? It will be good if you could go into the categories and have a check on the articles.

# [[:Category:American military personnel killed in the Vietnam War]]
# <s>[[:Category:American people of the Vietnam War]]</s>
# <s>[[:Category:Americans of Vietnamese descent]]</s>
# [[:Category:Asia Entertainment]]
# [[:Category:Battle of Ia Drang]]
# [[:Category:Battles and operations of the First Indochina War]]
# [[:Category:Battles and operations of the Vietnam War]]
# [[:Category:Battles involving Vietnam]]
# [[:Category:Battles of the Sino-French War]]
# [[:Category:Birds of Vietnam]]
# [[:Category:Buddhist crisis]]
# [[:Category:First Indochina War]]
# [[:Category:Gin people]]
# [[:Category:Military campaigns involving Vietnam]]
# [[:Category:Military history of Vietnam during World War II]]
# <s>[[:Category:Opposition to the Vietnam War]]</s>
# [[:Category:Paris by Night singers]]
# [[:Category:Paris By Night]]
# [[:Category:Sino-French War]]
# [[:Category:Tai history]]
# [[:Category:Tai peoples]]
# [[:Category:Third Indochina War]]
# [[:Category:United States military bases of the Vietnam War]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War amphibious warfare vessels of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War auxiliary ships of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War cruisers of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War destroyers of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War frigates and destroyer escorts of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War ships of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War submarines of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Wars involving Vietnam]]
# <s>[[:Category:World War II shipwrecks in the South China Sea]]</s>

If they are not to be tagged, kindly go to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories|list]] and remove them.. Thanks in advance -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 11:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::Most of the categories listed directly above seem good. We need to decide if we are tagging the articles on individual US soldiers who fought in the Vietnam War and other US topics that relate to the Vietnam War. Also, I think that we can remove the categories for Sino-French War, Cambodian Civil War, and other wars that do not 100% involve Vietnam; when an individual battle or other article does relate to Vietnam, it will be under another category, such as "Battles involving Vietnam" and will get tagged. ... I'm going to remove those war categories from the list. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 13:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I didn't think the two on Tai peoples were relevant. More interestingly, [[CAT:Gin people]] is a subcat of [[People of Vietnamese descent]], which could be tagged as a whole. There may some other cases where we could come up a level on the cats. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:Can somebody look into the rest of categories regarding United States ? Are they appropriate, people might just oppose tagging them as Vietnam too ... -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 12:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
::I think it's something we need to discuss as a Project, perhaps along with others, such as the [[WP:MILHIST|Military History Project]], as to whether or not we consider these things to be within our purview, rather than simply a matter of any one of us looking at the categories and deciding... I raised the same issue some time ago, before there was a Vietnam Project, [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Southeast_Asia#Vietnam_War|here]], and there wasn't much response or discussion, so I don't know if the matter was ever really resolved. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 17:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I removed the ones I crossed out. For the US personnel killed in VN, these are basically all Medal of Honor recipients, soldiers who were notable for getting killed by doing something very brave. As all their notable activities occurred in VN, I left it in there. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
: So shall I consider [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories]] as the final 'cleaned' up list. I will start the bot run soon...To be 'safe' , I will run the categories that invoves US men and military , the war categories on the second phase... I will keep updated of the progress... -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 06:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
::Yes please. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 06:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
::: Thanq.. {{doing}} : I am working on configuring the bot on the categories -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 07:26, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
:Phase 1 is starting soon [[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET]] -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 07:22, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
:: {{doing}} : Started ! -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 05:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_1|Phase 1]]''' : Completed -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 10:40, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_2|Phase 2]]''' : Completed -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 16:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_3|Phase 3]]''' : Completed -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 19:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_4|Phase 4]]''' : Completed -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 02:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_5|Phase 5]]''' : doing -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 02:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

:::Thank you, Tinucherian; you are one of the best Wikipedians. You've helped us a lot. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 16:23, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: Thanks Badagnani for your kind words. -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 16:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

This is the list of last Phase (5) categories, possibly a list of 'risky' categories:

[[:Category:American military personnel killed in the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Battle of Ia Drang]] , [[:Category:Battles and operations of the First Indochina War]] , [[:Category:Battles and operations of the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Battles involving Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Birds of Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Campaigns of the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Congressional opposition to the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Fauna of Vietnam]] , [[:Category:First Indochina War]] , [[:Category:Military campaigns involving Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Military history of Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Military history of Vietnam during World War I]] , [[:Category:Military history of Vietnam during World War II]] , [[:Category:Military operations involving Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Military operations of the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Naval battles involving Vietnam]] , [[:Category:North Vietnamese Vietnam War flying aces]] , [[:Category:Paracel Islands]] , [[:Category:Second Indochina War]] , [[:Category:Spratly Islands]] , [[:Category:Third Indochina War]] , [[:Category:United States military bases of the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War amphibious warfare vessels of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War auxiliary ships of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War cruisers of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War destroyers of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War frigates and destroyer escorts of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War military equipment]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War ships of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War submarines of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Wars involving Vietnam]]

Can some one go through the above and let us know if any of the categories above need to avoided ? Thanks in advance. -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 04:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
:They look ok. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 05:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_5|Phase 5]]''' : Completed.

{{Completed}} : Over 4000 article talk pages were edited including new additions and fixing banner redirects ....It was a pleasure working for this project. Now that I have gained 'confidence' in your project categories, next time it should be much easier. Don't hesitate to ask my Bot for help for your project again :) -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 16:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

==Wrong Tagging by the bot==
{{Caution|Placeholder for reporting 'False Positive' Tagging by [[User:TinucherianBot|TinucherianBot]] for WikiProject Vietnam.}}
:Please report the issues below. We will work on them.

===Question the following tag===
I wonder if tagging [[Plum Village]] is appropriate. Plum Village is a Buddhist monastery in France, and while it was started by Thich [[Nhat Hanh]], it is not exclusively for Vietnamese people. [[User:Nightngle|Nightngle]] ([[User talk:Nightngle|talk]]) 14:33, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
:What does it hurt to tag it? In any case, I figure that at least some people here at WP:VN would be more qualified to watch over, edit, expand the article than the average WP:France editor, right? [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 16:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
::I feel the same way. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 16:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: Plum Village was tagged because it was under [[:Category:Overseas Vietnamese Buddhist temples]] -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 04:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

::OK, I think these should be included/tagged with WPVN. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 05:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

:::Except that [[Plum Village]] is not a Vietnamese monastery, so it seems misleading. The monastery isn't in the WP:France project, but is in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Buddhism]] which would cover any "watching over" it needs with no problems. [[User:Nightngle|Nightngle]] ([[User talk:Nightngle|talk]]) 16:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

::It's not in Vietnam but then neither are many Vietnamese people. The leaders are Vietnamese and the article is chock full of quoc ngu names. I'm a member of WPVN and I would like to improve it for this reason, so it seems a good fit. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 16:59, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

==Warning! High risk of severe spamming and vandalism==
User [[User:Nefbmn|Nefbmn]] has been inserting extremely offensive commentary about ethnic Vietnamese and a number of other ethnic groups at various talk pages recently. In particular, [[Talk:Nanyue]] needs to be watched closely for any signs of abuse. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 05:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

== Request for verification ==

There's been a request for verification at [[Lý Long Tường]], by an editor who cannot read Vietnamese (and thus cannot cross-check with [[:vi:Lý Long Tường]], but who nevertheless believes that this article smacks of pseudo- or invented history. All you Vietnamese history buffs, please check in. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

==Funny Business at [[Hoa]]==
It seems that any attempt to suggest that the [[Hoa]] people and their descendants are ethnically Vietnamese is met with amusement or disgust; this is despite the fact that no one has a problem with the notion that Hoa people and their descendants living in the US are [[Vietnamese American]], '''not''' [[Chinese American]]. More editors who actually know their Vietnamese history need to check it out. 
By the way, it is ironic that [[Hoa]] is rated as a high importance article for WikiProject Vietnam given that it seems to experience far less input from editors of Vietnamese background than from Overseas Chinese (the article is considered "low importance" for WikiProject China). [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 12:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

== Borrowed Scenery in traditional East Asian gardens ==

I [[WP:Be bold|was bold]] and moved the article "[[Shakkei and the picturesque]]", a title no one would ever search for or link to, to the far more common and straightforward "[[borrowed scenery]]". I have done a little to bring a more worldwide view (i.e. not just Japan) into the intro sentence, and added the East Asian languages template, to represent the different ways this term is pronounced in different languages.

A lot of work needs to be done to expand this out to cover the Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese (and other?) applications of this concept, not just the Japanese, and the Korean and Vietnamese words need to be added to the language template at the top.

I am no expert on this subject, especially not on the non-Japanese aspects/versions of it, and so I apologize for leaving it in this half-done state, and implore anyone with an interest and an expertise in traditional East Asian gardens to contribute whatever you can. Thank you. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 17:20, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

==Severely Problematic POV Pushing==
Everyone who knows Vietnamese history should check out [[First Chinese domination (History of Vietnam)]] immediately. There are crucial omissions. The article appeared after [[User:Kinh Duong Vuong]] turned the former redirect to [[Nanyue]] into a fully fledged article. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 01:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Need diacritics ==

Need diacritics at [[Nguyen Hop Doan]]. Also, why do most of the external links deal with subjects other than the subject of the article? It doesn't make sense. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

==Need help at [[Battle of Bạch Đằng River (938)]]==
[[User:Rungbachduong]] seems to believe that the article [[Battle of Bạch Đằng River (938)]] is factually accurate and neutral. However, I believe otherwise. There is only one reference to a government-controlled website that I believe is a mousepiece of the Vietnamese Communist Party (or their sympathisers) and thus unsuitable for use at Wikipedia. Of more concern though is the overall quality of the article. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 00:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
:The point here is not believe or disbelieve, I just removed those improper templates that you are trying to put everywhere because of your argument. I recall one more time that we use sources and references after [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]], not after your criteria, so please do not show them here or other articles. Thank you.
:If anyone notice improper templates put by David873 in articles relating with Vietnam's subject, please remove them and remind him. Thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 01:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
::[[Wikipedia:Verifiability]] makes it very clear that sources that have a poor reputation for fact-checking are usually not suitable; this means we do '''not''' use state-run sources unless other high-quality sources can be used to support the information being presented. After all, a newspaper article produced by a Vietnamese media outlet (regardless of the language that it is in) does not constitute a mainstream newspaper article in the English-speaking world. Is there an exception here? 
::Perhaps it is time that this issue be referred to the reliable sources noticeboard. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 01:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Until wikipedia has your "this means", we will still use source from Vietnamese publisher, thank you for your concern. If you think that this is necessary to refer something to noticeboard, so do it and no need to show your argument here, thank you one more time. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 01:52, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Battle of Bạch Đằng (938)

2008-08-07T01:49:34Z

Rungbachduong: /* Removed sentences */

{{WPMILHIST
|class=start
|auto=
|small=
|portal=
|attention=yes
|needs-infobox=
|A-Class=
|peer-review=
|old-peer-review=
|collaboration-candidate=
|past-collaboration=
|Chinese=yes|Southeast-Asian=yes
}}
{{WikiProject Vietnam|class=start|importance=}}
{{WPCHINA}}

==This article is biased==
The article seems to have an overtly Vietnamese nationalistic tone. No reliable references have been provided to support some of the opinions in the article and it is clear from the contents of this article that it is designed to promote ethnic hatred. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 12:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
:I see no ethnic hate here, so I removed your template (no need to discuss about reliable source with you). [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 15:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
::This does not change the fact that the article has an overtly Vietnamese nationalistic tone though. Some sentences seem rather emotionally charged for an encyclopaedia such as "...the heavy Chinese warboats were ''all'' caught on the poles and lay ''helplessly'' trapped in the middle of the river" (italics mine) or "The Southern Han never attacked the Vietnamese again" (the latter quoted sentence was inserted in order to promote ethnic hatred perhaps?). [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 00:37, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
:::From what source you have "the fact that"? If there are some sentences or phrases not well built, you can freely correct them, why do you always try to put your argument for the whole article? Besides, I cannot see anything "ethnic hatred" comes from "The Southern Han never attacked the Vietnamese again"?! One more time, please hold your own argument for forums or blogs, save your time here in wikipedia to improve articles. Thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 00:52, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

== Location ==

Where exactly is the Bạch Đằng River? Does it still exist today? Where exactly did the battle occur? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:13, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
:The river still exists today, located near [[Halong Bay]]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 00:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, so, in [[Quang Ninh Province]]? Is there a vi:WP article on the river? We should add as much detail as we can to the article, and perhaps make an article on the river. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
:Many sites along the river are marked today: [http://www.vietnamtourism.com/e_pages/country/province.asp?mt=8433&uid=39][http://ditichbachdang.org.vn/views/public.php]. The vi.wiki article is [[:vi:Sông Bạch Đằng]]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 00:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

== Removed sentences ==

Sentences just removed need to be evaluated for inclusion:

*"The Southern Han never attacked the Vietnamese again."

*"It was the first truly independent Vietnamese state."

These would seem to be important, first because dynastic China attacked Vietnam again and again, and the Southern Han perhaps multiple times; and the second, if true, seems important as well.

[[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:31, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

:Yes, they certainly need to be evaluated. However, I was concerned that much of the material that I have deleted were either superfluous or essentially an emotional tirade that would not be allowed in an encyclopaeida such as Britannica. For example, if the first independent Vietnamese state did in fact begin after the battle, then why not simply say "It was the first soveriegn Vietnamese state" (note the omission of the word "truly")? [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 01:44, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
::Badagnani, sorry that I don't have English source, but here some source for those evaluation:
* "The Southern Han never attacked the Vietnamese again." - Ref: ''Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư'' - Ngoại Kỷ - Quyển V (External Note - Volume V) - 938.
* "It was the first truly independent Vietnamese state." - Ref: Tran Trong Kim, ''Việt Nam sử lược'' (''Summary of Vietnam's History''), Chương V - Bắc thuộc lần thứ 3 (Chapter V - Third Chinese domination) - 938.
::I don't know where one can find correlative English sources with above references, if you have them, please add to article, thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 01:49, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Battle of Bạch Đằng (938)

2008-08-07T01:11:22Z

Rungbachduong: /* This article is biased */

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Vietnam

2008-08-07T01:09:48Z

Rungbachduong: /* Need help at Battle of Bạch Đằng River (938) */

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Vietnam

2008-08-07T01:02:01Z

Rungbachduong: /* Need help at Battle of Bạch Đằng River (938) */

{{WPVN|class=NA}}
{{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=NA}}

{{archivebox|
*[[/Archive1]]
}}
----

== Historical subdivisions ==

Hello all. I'm very excited to see a Vietnamese WikiProject finally assembled. As a Japan scholar, Southeast Asia has always interested me but has always been on the side.. What I guess I'm trying to say is I'm no expert, but I'm happy to be here.

One set of articles which I think could use some serious help from experts are those describing historical subdivisions of Vietnam. I'm afraid I am far from familiar enough with Vietnam's history overall to be able to tackle this alone, so I hope that others can jump in. Some terms which I think need better, clearer, explanations, along with some care taken to accurately represent the overlaps in terminology:

*[[Annam]] - the disambig page looks great, though [[Annam (Chinese Province)]] needs expansion, and [[Annam (French colony)]] needs some serious cleanup.
*[[Cochinchina]]/[[Quinam]]/[[Quang Nam]]/[[Dang Trong]] -- The confusion between these needs to be cleared and explained. [[Quang Nam]] currently only describes the modern-day province, not the historical central-southern section of the country controlled by the Nguyen lords in the 16th-17th centuries. Perhaps the best answer is to create an article at Dang Trong linked to in Quang Nam and Cochinchina and redirected from Quinam.
*[[Tonkin]]/[[Dang Ngoai]] -- Most sources I've seen refer to the northern area controlled by the Trinh as "Tonkin" ... Either this article needs expansion, or the Dang Ngoai article should be created to parallel the Dang Trong one, if we make that one.

Confusing, yes. But I'm hoping that some movement can be made on this issue. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 11:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

== Han Tu characters and alternate names for the country. ==

I understand that Chinese characters are no longer used in Vietnam, but as the language is derived from them, I find them quite useful for understanding the meaning and origin of terms. To seek the origin of the word Annam not purely from its Western sound (which means nothing) but from its Chinese origins (安南 - "the peaceful south", an exonym used by the Chinese to refer to the tributary state to their south) reveals something interesting and useful, I feel. After some searching, I have finally satisfied my curiosity as to the character used for Viet - [[wikt:越|越]]. I understand the meaning behind Vietnam ([[wikt:越|越]][[wikt:南|南]]) and Dai Viet (大越), but I have just come across a reference to Dai Nam (大南). Is this simply a synonym, or does it refer to something else? [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 17:13, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
:During the Nguyen Dynasty, Gia Long asked the Qing Dynasty to change the ''Quốc hiệu'' (囯号) to Nam Viet, but was denied and changed to Viet Nam. In 1820, Minh Mang asked to change it to Dai Nam, but was not accepted; however, as the Qing grew increasingly weaker, the Nguyen Dynasty unilaterally used the name since 1839. It was used officially until 1945. Dai Nam means a large Southern nation. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 19:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

== Vietnamese name ==

I feel glad that a WikiProject for Vietnam has been established after all. There're a lot of things to do. However, I think that we should create a standardize form for Vietnam-related articles first. I have problem using the diacritic for Vietnamese names. For example, [[User:Sesel]] renamed [[Huynh Phu So]] to [[Huỳnh Phú Sổ]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huynh_Phu_So&diff=49885347&oldid=49885331] and recently [[User:Blnguyen]] has reverted the move [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Huynh_Phu_So&diff=142406366&oldid=142406280]. [[User:DMG413]] performed the similar action as Sesel [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Xu%C3%A2n_Di%E1%BB%87u&diff=44139441&oldid=44138363] in article [[Xuân Diệu]]. I myself created article [[Nguyễn Nhật Ánh]] with diacritic. There's a [[Talk:Thích Quảng Ðức#Requested move|requested move]] for [[Thích Quảng Ðức]] and the result is "keep". IMO I support the diacritic pattern. We need a synchronization in the naming system. '''[[User:@pple|A]][[User talk:@pple|''W'']]''' 09:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
:The thing is, not everyone's keyboard supports the diacritical marks. I have seen a standard somewhere, that says for the English language Wikipedia, the marks should not be used. I will keep looking. [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris]] 09:35, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
::We have a free software [http://www.unikey.org/ Unikey] for solving this. In fact, this problem seems to be widely noticed that there's a impending guideline on [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Vietnamese)]]. '''[[User:@pple|A]][[User talk:@pple|''W'']]''' 10:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
:I say, if you know the diacritics, and you have a vietnamese typing program, then use the diacritics. But create a redirect without the diacritics. The trend is definately towards more respect for other languages' names. Standards that call for some languages like Spanish to be written with diacritics and other languages to be written without them, reflect a US-centric view of the world and should not be used in Wikipedia. If you can't be bothered to type the diacritics yourself then wait for someone else to fix it later. Even if diacritics are not used in the title, they should always be used in the article body if possible. Diacritics may seem silly to English speakers who don't speak the language, but they do mean the difference between Y and D for example, so they are important. I've read a lot of history books which left out the diacritics, and it is very annoying knowing these people's names but not being able to pronounce them because I don't know the diacritics. It was a pleasant change when I read Trần Mỹ-Vân's history book with diacritics on all the Vietnamese and French names (but not the Japanese or Chinese ones :-( ). If the spelling is identical to the English name, including spaces, then use diacritics. If the English spelling removes the spaces though, then maybe you should not use the diacritics (eg. Hanoi). [[User:CarlKenner|Carl Kenner]] 20:17, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
::I just downloaded WinVNKey, which works great (using Telex mode, which allows you to type a vowel, then an accent or dot or whatever, and it adds the diacritic immediately to the vowel, also in combination). It works better than Unikey for mẹ [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 08:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::You're funny Carl. It's not just a US-centric imposition, but an English-centric one. Last I check the website for the Australian embassy in Vietnam, they omit diacritics! :-) [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 16:56, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

== [[Annam (French colony)]] ==

I am at a loss to know what to do with the old Encyclopedia Britannica stuff in the above article. Should it stay where it is? Could some or all of it go into [[History of Vietnam]]? Or should it just be junked? Any suggestions welcomed, or just take bold action. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 20:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::My suggestion would be to incorporate it as best as you can. I wouldn't trash it, nor would I leave it alone. I've been thinking of doing something with this myself, but I really don't know when I'd get around to it - thank you much for noticing the problem, and please do feel free to be bold and go and fix it. Thanks!! [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 01:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:::To answer [[User:Badagnani]]'s question, raised as a note in the above article, the Vietnamese name for the area is not Annam because the French division of the country into Tonkin, Annam and Cochinchina is widely regarded as arbitrary and unjustified. And before the colonial period Annam was one of various Sino-Vietnamese names for Vietnam as a whole. Nowadays if people want to refer to the areas that were covered by the former colonies, they use the neutral terms Bac Ky or Bac Bo (northern region), Trung Ky or Trung Bo (central region) and Nam Ky or Nam Bo (southern region) - sorry I don't have the diacritics to hand. In view of this, I also think it is not correct to add the Han Tu version of Annam to this article, although it should definitely be in the article [[Annam (Chinese province)]]. The [[Annam]] disambiguation page explains it but if it is still confusing - the 19th century French are to blame, not us! [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 09:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Thanks for this; I would say that if the article is under Annam it's referring to the French colony. Chinese characters were still used by educated Vietnamese during the time "Annam" was used for this division of French Indochina. It's the question of why there's a different Vietnamese name. If it was a French colony why would it have a completely different Vietnamese name, Trung Kỳ (Hán Tự: [[wikt:中|中]][[wikt:圻|圻]])? If it's a different Vietnamese name, I'd say it's not referring to the same entity but instead a roughly matching geographical region. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 09:54, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::If we could get a translation of this text, maybe it would explain more about it:
::::*Trong lịch sử cận đại, "Annam" được sử dụng trong tiếng Pháp để chỉ phần đất Miền Trung Việt Nam (hay Trung Kỳ) do triều đình Huế của nhà Nguyễn cai trị dưới sự bảo hộ của Pháp. Do thời kỳ Pháp thuộc bị coi là một giai đoạn ô nhục của dân tộc, nên người dân Việt Nam thường hiểu từ "Annam" theo một nghĩa tiêu cực, mang hàm ý miệt thị dân tộc và vì vậy không thích sử dụng nó. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 10:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::*:Translation: "In modern history, "Annam" was used in French to refer to central Vietnam, the area under the administration of the Nguyen Dynasty under French protectorate. ''Because the period of French domination is considered a period of national shame, Vietnamese people usually consider the term "Annam" derogatory, used pejoratively towards the Vietnamese people, and do not use it.'' [[User:DHN|DHN]] 15:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Thanks, I've made a small change at [[Annam (French colony)]]. One more question: was "Trung Kỳ" used by Vietnamese as the Vietnamese equivalent name referring to the same colony as Annam, or was the name applied after the French were defeated? I'm guessing it's the latter. (Or was the term used during the colonial period as well, to spite the French?) If so, that should be made clear in the article. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 19:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Maybe it would help to determine the usage of "Trung Kỳ" to see what http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trung_K%E1%BB%B3 says. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 20:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::It dates it from 1834. And yes I think it was used by anti-colonial writers (as "Vietnam" was), but we would need a reference. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 20:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:::::"Nam Kỳ", "Bắc Kỳ", and "Trung Kỳ" had been in use administratively before French colonialism. In 1834, Minh Mang established the three regions. Nam Ky, divided into 6 provinces, is known collectively as "Nam Kỳ Lục tỉnh" (''6 Southern region provinces''). They were the same 6 provinces that were ceded to France and later becoming [[Cochin China]]. After 1945, they're called "Nam Bộ", "Bắc Bộ", and "Trung Bộ", respectively. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 21:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

== What's a top importance article? ==

Would it be useful to agree some basic guidelines here for assessing articles? My assumption is that top importance is reserved for a very small number of articles: [[Vietnam]], [[History of Vietnam]], [[Hanoi]], [[Ho Chi Minh City]], [[Vietnam War]], perhaps just a few more. Does that mesh with what others are thinking? Then high importance would be all the provinces, other cities, the archdioceses, major hospitals and universities, the historical dynasties, historical figures such as [[Ho Chi Minh]], [[Ngo Dinh Diem]] and [[Vo Nguyen Giap]], major tourist resorts, geographical features such as [[Ha Long Bay]], the former French colonies such as [[Cochinchina]]. I don't have particularly strong views about the classification but if we are going to make inroads into the assessment then some consistency might be useful. Thanks. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 19:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:I personally like the way it's described in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany/Assessment#Importance scale]]. I'm not sure if that helps any, of course, but it's the best guideline I've seen to date. [[User:Warlordjohncarter|John Carter]] 19:33, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
:Yes, it does look good. Maybe we could pinch the table layout and find Vietnam-related articles for the examples. Their top class category seems a bit wider than the one I was thinking of in my last post - but it's the consensus and consistency that matters of course. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 20:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
::[[Ngo Dinh Diem]] and [[Vo Nguyen Giap]] might be recentism. I would think that in the long run, [[Trung sisters]], [[Nguyen lords]], [[Trinh lords]], [[Le Loi]], [[Gia Long]] or [[Quang Trung]] had a greater impact. I guess Diem got under the skin of a few more people who were they to record the facts... I can't see how a hospital could be any more than low, unless it was architecturally important. But anyway...'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 00:45, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
:::Belated thanks to people for their comments above. I am going to start doing some more assessments, since the majority of our articles are still unassessed. I've been assessing all province articles as high importance and will continue unless there is any disagreement. Following Blnguyen's comment, I will categorise all hospital articles as low importance unless it is clear that there is something very special about that hospital. I also take the point about recentism, but surely anyone who has had supreme power in the whole country or a major share of it at any period is a figure of high importance? [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 23:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

== Han Tu ==
:::''Copied from project page

:'''''Comment''''' - I've put in [[Hán Tự]] for the ones I could figure out. I think it would be less obtrusive to put them in the box as they're not generally used in the modern day (though they're useful for historical and etymological purposes. Can someone figure out how to do that? If we could add a "literal meaning" section in the box as well that would be just great; most of the province names do have Sino-Vietnamese literal meanings though I think at least a few of the southern provinces are probably transliterations of Khmer or Cham toponyms. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 06:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::If they're shown at all, they must be made absolutely clear that '''they are no longer used'''. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 07:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
:'''''Comment''''' - I think it's similar to the condition of the Korean [[Sino-Korean]] [[hanja]]; though many younger Koreans eschew any use of those characters of Chinese origin, they do contribute immeasurably to an understanding of the words (and the names of most Koreans living today) they were formerly used to write. I do support getting the Han Tu out of the lead paragraphs and into the infobox or an etymology section (for the province articles, if we went with the latter we could use some boilerplate text about the Sino-Vietnamese origin of many/most of the province names). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 07:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::The situation in Vietnamese is much more extreme than in Korean. '''It is not taught at all in schools'''. Currently, there is absolutely no printed media that uses Han tu, either in personal names, place names, or dictionaries. Most people, young and old, do not know any Chinese character. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 07:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
:Hmm, interesting. Anyway, I'm fascinated by the etymologies of at least the major place names, and regardless of the decision the Vietnamese educational system has taken over the past 100 years (though I do believe some university students study the old characters, since someone needs to staff the national institute that preserves all of the nation's ancient literature written in this system) that our encyclopedia could be a good source of reference for these etymologies in an Internet where this information is extremely hard to find. Regarding young and old, I do know that my teacher knows the characters to his name and knows many others as well; I think he learned them during the 1950s and 1960s as a Buddhist monk in Vinh Long. Yes, I guess he's the exception, so our encyclopedia could actually help Vietnamese people learn more about this, if they want to. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 07:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::There's a particularly poignant poem written during the 1930s and later turned into a song that's sung during Tet about a ''ông đồ già'' ([http://www.ykien.net/nhvongdo.html translation]). An ''ông đồ'' is sort of like a scribe; during Tet, people would come to him and pay him to write down "parallel lines" of Chinese characters so that they could bring home to display in their homes. As the song goes, every year fewer and fewer people would use his service, and he sits alone in the middle of the marketplace until one year there's no ''ông đồ'' anymore. Buddhists are one of the few remaining groups of scholars who still study Chinese characters. I can recognize my name in Han tu (since I know what my name means), but my parents, who named me, wouldn't. I can recognize about 20 other characters, but that doesn't make me some sort of "Han tu scholar"...I just happen to pick them up from Wikipedia. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 08:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
:Wow, that is heavy. I've got to learn more about that song. Regarding names, I was wondering whether it was possible to figure out the meanings of people's names, but I'd guess if one's parents donŖ't know the characters maybe in some cases it's impossible? In Chinese, there are sometimes several different characters for "peace," "happiness," or whatever. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 08:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
::Here's a slideshow of the song being sung with pictures of modern-day ''ông đồ'': [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QJRD640XbY&feature=related]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:55, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
:I wonder if the characters for ''ông đồ'' are [[wikt:翁|翁]][[wikt:徒|徒]]. [[Special:Contributions/24.93.170.200|24.93.170.200]] ([[User talk:24.93.170.200|talk]]) 03:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Hmmm. I definitely agree with Badagnani - the etymologies of placenames, personal names, and other words and terms is quite fascinating, and an understanding of the Chinese characters involved offers huge insights into these meanings and origins. I understand the assertion that these are not used in modern language ''at all'', and I do not disagree with the argument that they should, for that reason, not be present in the leading sentence. Still, for historical topics, i.e. anything that concerns a time when Han Tu were used, I think it would be extremely interesting and useful, if not exactly necessary, to include this information. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 10:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
::::Finding out their etymologies is necessary for people using Chinese language. For example, ''Hà Nội'' means river interior, and we can trace that Hà (means river) is 河 in Chinese, but not 何/荷. Therefore, 河內 is the only correct translation of Hà Nội. Nevertheless, many placenames with the name ''Long'' (e.g. ''Vĩnh Long'' or ''Long An'') are translated in Chinese as 隆 (which means prosperity) currently, but I doubted that many of them should be 龍 (dragon). --[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:Do you have access to a library that has a book giving the original Han Tu for the province names? That would solve this problem. For [[Mekong Delta]], I'm sure it's "Nine Dragons" (九龍). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:33, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::Sorry, no. It would be great if you can provide them (at least the name of all provinces first). Interestingly, as far as I know, at least 17 places are called 九龍 in China, so there is of little chance that Cửu Long Delta would use 隆.--[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:::Yup, [[Kowloon]] is etymology the same as the Vietnamese name of the Mekong. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 19:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:I was asking you because I thought you're in Vietnam and would have more access to these kinds of reference books. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::I am from Hong Kong, a guy that currently get messed up by those names. In Chinese Wikipedia we don't use Quốc Ngữ as article names, so finding out correct Chinese names is the most important thing before an article can be built. --[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:OK, we'll do it. I think, though, that in some cases (especially for the province and place names in the far south), that the names aren't Viet, but come from the languages of minority groups (former majorities like Khmers and Chams). So the Viet Han Tu used in the 19th century may differ from the current transliteration used by the PRC, TW, or HK. My teacher is from Vinh Long, so I'm asking him about that right now. You may very well be right that it's not "dragon." [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::Just name a few - Bình Long, Càng Long, Hạ Long, Long An, Long Biên, Long Điền, Long Hồ, Long Khánh, Long Mỹ, Long Phú, Long Thành, Long Xuyên, Minh Long, Phước Long (Bạc Liêu), Phước Long (Bình Phước), Vĩnh Long. Many of them uses 隆 in Chinese articles nowadays (e.g. Vĩnh Long = 永隆), but some of them uses 龍 (e.g. Hạ Long = 下龍). For the names from Khmers and Chams, phonetic translations are okay.--[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 18:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::Urgently needed to find the etymology of Long Thành -- I don't know how to name this new airport. Thành can correspond to 成 (success) or 城 (city). The name Long Thành may get 4 plausible translations -- but 3 are wrong. --[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 18:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:[http://nomfoundation.org/nomdb/lookup.php This tool] is a good one for finding Han Tu, but it doesn't know the exact one for the place names. It just gives all the possible characters a given syllable could be. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:See new page at '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Han tu requests]]'''. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 18:42, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
::Long Thành is the name of the town nearby, so I'm inclined to go with 城. Long is probably prosperity or dragon. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 19:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:My teacher, who is from Vinh Long, thinks it means "ETERNAL PROSPERITY" or "EVERLASTING PROSPERITY." But he said that the original Han characters have been wiped out from all government records. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 22:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
::What he probably means is that Chinese characters for place name are no longer recorded in government records, as is all written Vietnamese for the past 50 years. I don't think there's any concerted effort to eliminate Chinese written records. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 23:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
::Ah ha, the first sentence of [[Vinh Long]] and [[Vinh Long Province]] need to be changed then. -[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 09:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
:Yes...I think I'm the one who originally added that, so sorry about that... I'm in touch with the Nom Foundation and they are working on my request for the original characters used for all the "Long" place names. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
===The Search for Lost Maps===
This might be useful. [http://bp1.blogger.com/_NEnBLhxqVCk/R4zty0l0x8I/AAAAAAAAAPM/XbcYLyiloaw/s1600-h/DaiNamNhatThongToanDo(bando).jpg 19th Unified Dai Nam Map] from the National History Book of the Nguyen Dynasty. [http://paracelspratlyislands.blogspot.com/2008/01/old-vietnam-maps-drawn-by-vietnamese.html Source] [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 07:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

:How wonderful! Can we use Photoshop to rotate and upload it? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 07:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

:: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:19th-Unified-Dai-Nam-Map.png [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 16:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

== Article naming policy ==
There needs to be a consistent naming policy for article names of Vietnamese place-names and people. Currently some names are written without diacritics, while others have them. While I have no strong feelings toward one or another, we still need to come to a consensus about which format to use. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 00:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

:Yes. This is listed as Task 3 on the main page, but nobody has commented yet. I think User:Vardion has some thoughts about this, first expressed back in 2005, which have to do with commonly used English (i.e. non-diacritic) spellings for some of the provinces, city names, and other place names. But many more place names are largely unknown to Americans than are well known (via the war or otherwise). Of course, Saigon, Hanoi, Dalat, etc. are usually given in English as single words rather than two, and without diacritics. But the provinces we have both ways. It's confusing. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 01:00, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
::No diacritics seems to be the convenient thing for me. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
:::There're plentiful of convenient softwares for you, Blnguyen. [[User:@pple|@pple]] 10:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
::I'd likely find it more convenient to not use diacritics, but at the same time I do believe that things on wikipedia should be spelled correctly, and that means including the diacritics. I wouldn't mind having to google terms in order to find somewhere to copy-and-paste the correct spelling. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 10:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
:::I support diacritics and at least Carl Kenner agreed with me. I think his reason is persuasive. [[User:@pple|@pple]] 10:04, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
::::It's not hard to make redirects from the non-diacritic spelling, which will take you from [[Nguyen]] to [[Nguyến]]. I'm using WinVNKey, which I just downloaded a few weeks ago, and it works great (for Vietnamese diacritics as well as French, German, Spanish, etc. ones). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 00:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Please see [[Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese)]] on this matter. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 06:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

== Collaboration ==
Does anyone want to start a monthly collaboration article or anything. One very bad article springs to mind....[[North Vietnam]].....oh and we just got another FA. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 02:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
:Good idea! [[User:Kintetsubuffalo|Chris]] 03:33, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
::Good idea. Is this different than doing a translation of a vi:WP article? en:WP has done some good translations of articles from es:WP. Could be possibly start with some of the tasks that need doing, which have been outlined on the WPVN page? Like for example filling out some of the province articles which are just one or two sentences? We now have some good contributors who live in VN and have good sources, and vn:WP usually has more complete articles on VN-related subjects than we do. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 04:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
:::A list of articles need translation in newsletter? But I still wonder about the sources. Some individuals just won their fame within Vietnam boundary, so it's hard to find sources in English. According to [[Wikipedia:External links]], non-English materials should be avoided. I'm going to create article for [[Huy Can]]. He's prominent, but (sigh)... [[User:@pple|@pple]] 18:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
::::And more: Does anyone care about '''contemporary''' Vietnamese politicians rather than historical ones? [[Nguyễn Tấn Dũng]], [[Phan Văn Khải]], [[Võ Văn Kiệt]], [[Nguyễn Minh Triết]] etc. all in bad state now. [[User:@pple|@pple]] 18:16, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
:::::Had a quick look at [[Nguyễn Tấn Dũng]] and it raises a couple of issues. 1) the subject's name is spelt Dzung at one point - I understand what the motivation is, but it is not acceptable to switch between different spellings in one article. It really needs a sound link to the pronunciation to be added. 2) Article uses both UK and American date styles - we should settle on one for the project. Although I'm British I guess that recent Vietnamese publications in English more often use the American style so there is a logic for adopting that. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 13:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
::::::I'd second a collaborative effort for improving articles on some contemporary politicians. Not much is known about them, even in the Vietnamese-language Wikipedia. Most information that can be obtained about them are their official biographies on their Party activities prior to their current position. Their current views and policies are not really well-known unless they've already retired ([[Vo Van Kiet]]) or that they're involved in a scandal. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 00:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
::Both Dũng and Phục have unfortunate meanings in English. I think a footnote could be added after Dung to explain that the pronunciation isn't "Dung," but "Yung" (Southern) or "Zung" (Northern) [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 00:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
::Can we get back to the idea of a collaboration, which User:Blnguyen presented above? Just let us know which article you want us all to work on, and we'll get started. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 00:06, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
:::Collaboration is a very good idea. Perhaps we could start with one of the provinces? I have finished assessing them all (as "high" importance). Many are still stubs. I would also like to suggest that we adopt a standard format for province articles. For example, the WikiProject India guidelines for articles on Indian states can be found [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Indian_states here] and we could simply take that over as standard content for Vietnamese provinces. Note also that all the India-related articles use a standard style for spelling, dates and numbers. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 23:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
::This sounds like a good start. Pick a province whose article you feel is particularly deficient and outline some of the things you'd like to begin standardizing on the Indian model. Those of us who read Vietnamese can draw on vi:WP and Vietnamese sources, and we can also link each province's official govt. site (which I assume exist, just like for each province of the PRC). Perhaps some of our members in Vietnam can take photos or find maps as well. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 23:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
:Thua Thien-Hue Province could be a good place to start. Many editors are interested in the history, and some of this should be introduced in summary, although most of the detail should be under the Hue city article. It is only a short stub at the moment. I will introduce some headings and put heading-stub templates on them, if that is acceptable. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 18:01, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

==[[Kho]]==
Can anyone familiar with this dish help expand the [[Kho]] article? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 02:10, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

== Moves of all province articles away from diacritics to no diacritis ==
An editor named Sl has apparently [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20071001090911&target=Sl just moved all the province articles that had diacritics in the title to no diacritics], without discussion or consensus. Thoughts? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 16:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
:My thoughts are that above all we must be consistent throughout this whole project. My preference is also for diacritics, even though I don't yet know how to add them when I edit. Also that where there are diacritics in an article title there should be a redirect from the non-diacritic version.[[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 17:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Sl just did the opposite. We've got a discussion going on at the project page. I said that for Vietnamese Americans who don't use diacritics, we shouldn't use them in article titles. In other cases they might be desirable in article titles due to the different pronunciations of several letters between English and Vietnamese (such as "d"). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
:I think I misunderstood your post and I should have added my comments on the substantive issue of diacritic use in the proper place for that discussion. On SI's edits, I don't think they were helpful while the discussion is still continuing. It will be a lot of work to revert all of them and I think we shouldn't do that until we have quickly - and friendlily - reached consensus on the diacritics issue. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 17:33, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I've just dropped the user a line. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

::I have no idea. I just don't want to see that some places using diacritics as article names, while some articles are not. Please count me as neutral vote if such vote is held.--[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:54, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

You're right--some titles were with diacritics, and some had none. It's because we never arrived at a consensus yet. Thanks for your work here in enhancing usability between the vi: and en: Wikipedias. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

::Besides, some articles' name contain spaces, and some are not (particularly notable ones). Should they be consistent?--[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 18:15, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

In English Wikipedia we usually use the most common English rendering (i.e. Hanoi instead of Ha Noi). Or if it's an obscure place and there is no commonly used English rendering, we might use instead the way the province/city itself or the Vietnamese government refer to the name when discussing it in English on their official website or other publicity. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 18:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

:Similar incidences have occured at [[Can Tho]] and [[Can Tho Bridge]]. — [[User:Moe Epsilon|Moe]] [[User talk:Moe Epsilon|ε]] 17:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Can you explain in more detail? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 17:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
:Sure. I began editing to improve the article on [[Can Tho Bridge]] after the [[Collapse of Can Tho Bridge]] occured. Noticing that the article's correct title was Cần Thơ Bridge, I moved the article there. From there I moved '[[Collapse of Can Tho Bridge]]' to '[[Collapse of Cần Thơ Bridge]]' and '[[Can Tho]]' to [[Cần Thơ]]' and I moved a related providence to the title with diacritics. I looked at the template listing all providences and cities in Vietnam, and noticed that the majority of the articles had used the naming convention ''without'' diacritics, then I read [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)]]. From that, I determined that Can Tho and all related articles should be moved back, so I undid my page moves. Other editors began moving it back to the title 'Cần Thơ Bridge' citing diacritics were alright for titles, and I reverted stating that 'Can Tho' is prefered over 'Cần Thơ' because of the large amount of Vietnam providences and cities titled without the diacritics. [[Talk:Can Tho Bridge|Their argument]] suggests that because there is no 'official English name for Cần Thơ Bridge', diacritics should be used. I stated that there apparently is some kind of consensus, because all the articles are titled without diacritics and pointed them here to discuss it if they wish to furthur pursue it. IMHO, 'Can Tho Bridge', without the diacritics, is an acceptable English spelling (despite it not being official). I don't normally like to do this, but I Google tested it because of the sheer differential. [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=C%E1%BA%A7n+Th%C6%A1+Bridge&btnG=Search Cần Thơ Bridge] pulls up 119,000 results while [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Can+Tho+Bridge&btnG=Search Can Tho Bridge] pulls up 1,630,000. Of that 1,630,000, some are Vietnamese websites or under a Vietnamese domain. That draws me to conclude that English spelling should be used for these articles titles. — [[User:Moe Epsilon|Moe]] [[User talk:Moe Epsilon|ε]] 18:29, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Please see [[Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (Vietnamese)]] on this matter. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 06:51, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

== Assessment classes ==

I've assessed [[Agent Orange]] as mid-importance and think that [[Agent White]] and the others should be low-importance. Do others agree? And what importance do we give to the articles on languages and language groups, e.g. [[Chamic]]. I don't want to assess too many that will have to be changed later. Thanks. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 20:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

== [[Mì Quảng]] question ==
What are the noodles used for [[Mì Quảng]] made from? Rice flour and turmeric? Any other ingredients such as wheat or tapioca flour? Does anyone have access to a package of commercially available noodles or can look this up in Vietnamese or ask someone who knows? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 06:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
:It has egg in it. and probbaly other stuff. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

== Châu Thành ==

I am interested why there are 9 counties in Viet Nam called Châu Thành. Anyone know? -[[User talk:Sl|<big>✉</big> Hello World!]] 17:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Arrest_and_assassination_of_Ngo_Dinh_Diem]] ==
I'm hoping to get this to FA in time for November 2, when he was killed. There's never been a VN FA on the main page before. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

== [[Paddy field]] ==

The Vietnam section in the above article has been expanded, but the English is not good and in several places I'm not clear what is intended. Does anyone have time to help out? [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] 21:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

== Help on Wiktionary ==

If anyone wants to help out in regards to checking Vietnamese translations on Wiktionary, it would be much appreciated - we're developing something of a backlog:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Translations_to_be_checked_%28Vietnamese%29
Any help would be great. Thanks! [[User:Black-Velvet|Black-Velvet]] 11:26, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

== Article in Vietnamese needs translation: [[Gia đình phật tử]] ==

There's a page written in Vietnamese, [[Gia đình phật tử]], which is on AfD right now because it has gone untranslated for a month. You can comment on whether it should be deleted here: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gia đình phật tử]]. (Cross-posted also to [[User talk:Blnguyen]]) [[User:Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh|Awyong]] [[User talk:Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh|Jeffrey]] [[Special:Contributions/Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh|Mordecai]] [[Special:Emailuser/Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh|Salleh]] 01:24, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Southeast Asian cinema task force|Southeast Asian cinema task force]] ==

The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Southeast Asian cinema task force|Southeast Asian cinema task force]] was recently started as a joint project of [[WP:FILM|WikiProject Films]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Southeast Asia|WikiProject Southeast Asia]]. Editors who are writing about [[Cinema of Vietnam|Vietnamese films]] are welcome to join the project, where they will find support for collaboration on new articles and the expansion and promotion of existing articles. — '''[[User:Wisekwai|Wise]]'''''[[User talk:Wisekwai|Kwai]]'' 11:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

== Vietnam people! Please see this map ==
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Qing_Dynasty_map.png ( Source from [[Qing]] )

Dark Green: Qing China

Light Green: affiliated states

Vietnam was affiliated states of Qing China? is it true?
[[User:Heinekenbeerlover|Heinekenbeerlover]] 13:35, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

::I'm sure it is. I don't know that much about the details of the history of that period, but as Viet Nam was long a part of the Sinosphere, I'd be surprised if that did not remain true into the Qing period. Whether they could be called a tributary, a vassal state, a colony, an ally, or anything like that I do not know, but Viet Nam was most assuredly within the Chinese cultural sphere as it had been for centuries. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] 22:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Resolved.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AHeinekenbeerlover&diff=175978996&oldid=175464247] --[[User:Nightshadow28|Nightshadow28]] ([[User talk:Nightshadow28|talk]]) 16:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

== City infobox ==

It appears that an editor is attempting to create a Vietnamese city infobox at [[Thai Nguyen]]. While we have a province infobox, I don't believe we have a Vietnamese city one (though Vietnamese Wikipedia appears to). Can someone help him/her? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:32, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

== Huỳnh Công Út ==

The article on [[Huỳnh Công Út]], aka Nick Ut, starts with the explanation:

:
:''This is a [[Vietnamese name]]; the [[family name]] is ''Út''{{#ifeq: Út | Ut | | , but is often simplified as ''Ut'' in English-language text }}. According to Vietnamese custom, this person properly should be referred to by the given name ''Công ''or'' Nick''.''

Now, I read in [[Vietnamese name]] that ''Vietnamese names generally consist of three parts: a family name, a middle name, and a given name, used in that order.''

"Generally" doesn't mean "always". Is Huỳnh Công Út one of the exceptions, or is the explanation at the top of his article wrong? Anyway, what's the correct order for his Vietnamese name? If the article were to refer to him by his Vietnamese name (which in ''his'' case strikes me as pedantic), by which one of the three names should he be repeatedly referred? -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 04:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
:The explanation on top of his article is wrong. Fixed. Huỳnh is a common Vietnamese name, but if you were to refer to him as a Vietnamese person (not applicable in this case since he lives in the US), he would be referred to by his given name, Ut. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 04:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
::Thank you! -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 22:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

== Lý Nam Đế ==
(Will also be posted to [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China]].)
There is an anonymous editor who insists on (without discussion) removing Chinese characters and [[pinyin]] of [[Lý Nam Đế]]. Now, before I am to treat this person as a vandal, I'd like to get some general feelings about this. If you can, please discuss the issue on [[Talk:Lý Nam Đế]]. Thanks. --[[User:Nlu|Nlu]] ([[User talk:Nlu|talk]]) 05:02, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

== Unilateral article title changes ==
Alert, people--I know it's the holidays but [[User:JacquesNguyen]] is moving many articles unilaterally (typically adding diacritics to the new titles). '''See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/JacquesNguyen edit history].''' There was no agreement on this previously; however, he does not participate in this WikiProject yet works on many Vietnam-related articles, where he has become known for massive blanking, use of bad language, and uncited copying of swathes of text from published history books in articles he has begun. Please turn your attention to this and take action if you believe it necessary. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 23:54, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
:He is still doing this. Is it not time for us to reach a consensus on the diacritics issue? I am generally pro diacritic on the grounds that people who speak Vietnamese or are learning it (even at a very basic level, e.g. for use on holiday) frequently need the diacritics in order to distinguish different words or even to get anywhere close to a comprehensible pronunciation. Therefore I don't particularly see the user's page moves as vandalism. We must keep a close eye out for any blanking, bad language or plagiarism though. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 09:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[:Category:Chinese chess players]] ==

This category name is highly confusing, since [[Chinese chess]] is the common English name for a different board game, and one would naturally expect it to be filled with players of ''Chinese chess''. Any suggestions on renaming it?
[[Special:Contributions/70.51.9.174|70.51.9.174]] ([[User talk:70.51.9.174|talk]]) 07:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
:How about ''Chinese chess (Xiangqi) players'' [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 11:50, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
See [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_January_5#Category:Chinese_chess_players]] for discussion. [[Special:Contributions/70.55.87.75|70.55.87.75]] ([[User talk:70.55.87.75|talk]]) 05:16, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories]] ==
I have recursively dug up all teh categories under [[:Category:Vietnam]] and I have made a request for {{User|SatyrBot}} to periodically sweep these cats and tag all of them with {{tl|WPVN}} which should make things a lot more convenient, so that we don't have to find as many new articles by hand. If there are other cats which are "fully" (or almost fully) containing WPVN articles, then feel free to add it to the list in Alphabetical order, so that there are no duplicates and double-runs by the bot. Thanks, '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

:That's great, thanks. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:44, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
::[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories2]] - these ones are not so obviously synonymous with WPVN and would have to be checked manually on a case by case basis.'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

SatyrBot has done the run on the first 100 cats and the number of articles in teh project has jumped by around 500! '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

== Vietnamese Americans etc in {{tl|WPVN}} ==
Hi there. Badagnani has added quite a few poker players and other people of Vietnamese descent with the Viet wikiproject and I was wondering what you thought about these being in the scope of the project. My personal opinion is that poker players, Vietnamese American politicians and businessmen shouldn't be in [[WP:VIET]] because they don't operate inside Vietnam/none of their notability is related to Vietnam (unless they were notable when they were still in VN). I think Vietnamese language singers, eg [[Nhu Quynh]] might be in the scope of the project since they are propagating Vietnamese culture. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
:There is an argument for including the politicians because their notability reflects upon the standing of the Vietnamese-American community. Nothing such for the poker players. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 09:32, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
::I reverted this on [[Ahn Do]] and [[Khao Do]], with the logic that being born in Vietnam but moving to Australia, residing in Australia, working in Australia, etc., means that they really don't fall under the scope of this project. Many (most?) Australian sportspeople are born in Europe; many of our football (soccer) players are born in Italy. But we don't tag them for [[WP:ITALY]]. The same should, I think, apply here. [[User:DHMO|Dihydrogen]] [[User talk:DHMO|Monoxide]] ([[Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane 2|''party'']]) 00:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
:::Most of the poker players were born in Vietnam. It is important that they be tagged for WPVN, because they are Vietnamese people--and the WikiProject is for articles related to Vietnam, its culture and people. We don't have a WikiProject for "people who are from Vietnam, but live in a different country," so of course WPVN is the most appropriate WikiProject to place them in. WPVN serves as a tool to draw editors interested in Vietnam and Vietnamese culture and people to easily find and improve such articles. I am such an editor, and those articles are absolutely of relevance and interest. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
:No, the most appropriate project for "people who are from Vietnam, but live in a different country" is the project for the place they now reside in. [[User:DHMO|Dihydrogen]] [[User talk:DHMO|Monoxide]] ([[Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane 2|''party'']]) 02:06, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
::The country from which their notability is derived.....thus, US soldiers killed in Vietnam are listed under {{tl|WPVN}} since their notability comes from fighting in Vietnam, Overseas Vietnamese [VN born or not] who sing Vietnamese music are categorised as {{tl|WPVN}} whereas overseas Vietnamese (born in Vietnam or overseas) who do English language hip-hop or play poker are not. Whereas a US general leading troops in Vietnam or a German professor who is known for research into Vietnamese history would be {{tl|WPVN}} as well as their home country of operating, since they plan/work from their home country. A person who was only a kid in VN or was born overseas derives none of their notablity from VN simply from racial affiliation. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 02:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
:I think I can claim a mandate to remove these. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:13, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

== Chinese-derived scripts and Vietnamese names ==
This is becoming an issue. Some users, such as [[User:Badagnani]] and some nationalistic Chinese editors, indiscriminately add Chinese characters to Vietnamese proper names, regardless of their etymology and irrelevance. Other users, such as [[User:JacquesNguyen]] and his sockpuppets, attempt to remove all semblance of Chinese characters, regardless of its appropriateness. There needs to be a policy on this topic. To prevent misunderstandings, here are the facts:
*Chinese-derived scripts are '''totally absent''' in modern Vietnamese. This is in contrast to Korean, where students do learn them in school and Hanja characters are used, if only sparingly; or Japanese, where Kanji is regularly used. The chance of Chinese scripts making a comeback in Vietnamese is slim to none.
*Some proper names are pure Vietnamese words or are derived from non-Chinese languages.
*Most Vietnamese official documents prior to the 20th century were written '''in Classical Chinesse''', this resulted in some native names being approximated with a near-sounding Chinese character. Other writers used Nom characters to record the proper pronunciations of the names.

First of all, I think it is improper to use Chinese-derived scripts on place names or people that did not exist 100 years ago. Second of all, while I think it is proper to include information on how a certain name was rendered in the past, putting it in the lead sentence gives undue weight to what essentially is a trivial fact. Putting it there is more likely to misinform than inform readers - it implies that Chinese-derived scripts are somehow relevant and is still widely used. Lastly, mentions of Chinese characters should provide sources - since they seem to be pulled out from the Chinese Wikipedia. Some names derived from a non-Chinese language were transcribed in Chinese for administrative purposes, but modern Vietnamese provides a truer representation of how the Vietnamese pronounced those words. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:45, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

:To have a truly encyclopedic article, well-sourced original-script names are essential and extremely valuable to have a true etymology of each toponym (as we have, for example, for all of the U.S. states, many of whose names originate from other languages). Yes, some names derived from a non-Chinese language were transcribed in Chinese for administrative purposes, and these are also quite valuable to document for our users. The implication that any user who insists on complete documentation of the etymology of Vietnamese toponyms (as we do for all other place names in the world) is doing so out of some nationalistic purposes is quite disturbing, and should be taken back immediately. Many of these original sources (written in "nom" characters) still exist and preserve hundreds, if not thousands of years of Vietnamese history. As stated previously at least three times, the characters may be listed in a separate section entitled "Etymology" or "History," rather than in the lead. Finally, the characters added are not Chinese; they are Sino-Vietnamese. That is an important distinction. They were used in official documents written by Vietnamese, for Vietnamese, for Vietnamese use and reading. Asserting otherwise is disingenuous. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

:::But in the case of short articles, which is the case in most of these instances, the one sentence of etymology takes up about 25% of the article and makes it undue weight anyway. Clearly we are focusing on unimportant things too much. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
::::Why is it in the lead sentence of all the province articles when the province structure was created under a modern government?? They should be removed or relegated. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::Which article are you speaking of? In most place name articles, it might be better if the etymology is moved to a section titled "Etymology" or something similar. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
::I'm not calling you or anyone else who randomly add Chinese characters to articles about Vietnamese people (like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/137.222.52.41] this) nationalists. I'm referring to people like [[User:城市獵人|this guy]] who had been making edits that claim that the Vietnamese people originate from China. In vi.wiki, [http://vi.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Th%C3%A0nh_vi%C3%AAn:%E5%BD%B1%E6%AD%A6%E8%80%85&oldid=562353 he's] been adding Chinese characters to every single proper name imaginable. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 20:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
:::I fully respect your motives Badagnani, but I have to agree with DHN on this one. I know that in the early 20th century every Vietnamese place name, even the smallest hamlet, had a name in Chinese characters, but that is only one aspect of the etymology of the place name. Giving the Chinese characters might imply that we think that this is a more important part of the place name's evolution than it actually is. It is a very interesting thing to research but I'm not convinced that WP is the best place for it. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

::::I happen to agree with Badagnani on this one, at least as far as it pertains to historical topics. As a historian of pre-modern East Asia with a strong interest in Viet Nam (and as someone who is pretty good with kanji but knows nothing of Vietnamese written in the modern alphabet-based form), I find these things very interesting, if not out-and-out important. What purpose is served by not providing this information? Are we not here to share knowledge with the world? Withholding the Hán Tự is no different I think from withholding the diacritics, pronunciation guide, or in fact, any other aspect of the topic whatsoever. More to the point, please don't jump to conclusions and accuse people of pushing a nationalist agenda, introducing politics into a situation where it may not be relevant. We have a policy on Wikipedia called [[WP:Assume good faith|Assume good faith]]. I suggest you consider practicing it. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 14:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

:::::I don't mind moving such information down in the articles to a section entitled "Etymology" or "History" or something, rather than including it in the lead (as it is currently in most of the province articles). Blnguyen is adding names of the districts now and those should have their place name etymologies dug up and given as well, as it seems clear that many of them have interesting etymologies. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 16:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Do please consider helping to insert the area size and population stats and other information before the Etymology please.... [[WP:UNDUE]] is becoming a massive problem. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 21:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

::::::It could be a good idea to put the Han tu names in Etymology sections. I wonder if there are enough good sources for place name etymologies. As I understand it, by the 19th century Vietnamese villages had to have a name that "made sense" in Chinese, at least to the extent that it could be written in characters. That led to some alteration of the originals that were either in Vietnamese or in a minority language depending on where they were located. I have some familiarity with English and French placenames. There is an English Place Names Society and there has been a great deal of research over the years. Even still, there are many folk etymologies still quoted in guidebooks. Also, there have been several disputes in WP over the etymologies of Indian town place names. It would be good if we could avoid that in relation to Vietnam articles. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 20:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Oh, God, no--multiple sets of characters for place names (old and new)? What a mess. Now I see why they went to quoc ngu. In any case, old sources do still survive so this can be a cumulative process. In many cases, such as [[Hạ Long]] or [[Cửu Long]], the place names are well known and easy to figure out (and, of course, interesting). [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 21:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Hi, I have just removed your "Han Tu" note for [[Cửu Long]]. This province was created in 1976 when Vietnamese did not use Chinese characters for a long time, so why does it need that note. Maybe you misunderstand this province with the "river" [[vi:Cửu Long Giang]], in that case, a Chinese characters (九龍江) is necessary because it existed before 1945. [[User:Rungbachduong|Rungbachduong]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 00:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Shall we attempt to establish a set [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Style Guidelines|guideline]] on this? I would like to propose that Chu Nom be included, either in the lead sentence in parentheses or in a sidebar infobox as is done for [[CJK characters|CJK]] topics, for those historical topics whose names are derived from Chinese, and for which the Chu Nom is thus relevant. I'm not positive what the cut-off year should be, though, as I'm not that familiar with the history of the language. Of course, if people don't like my proposal (or my wording), other proposals should be most welcome. What is most important, I think, is that we establish a guideline, whatever form that may take. Thank you. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 10:29, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

:We should have a chữ nôm and hán tụ box with an explanation what they are and when they are relevant (for example, chữ nôm is relevant for historical documents dating between the 13th- and 20th-century). While I understand DHN's concern for irrelevance or misleading Chinese origins, the Chinese have documents that talk about Vietnam as well, and I find it frustrating to see articles like [[Nanyue]] written completely in pinyin which is spelled differently than using quốc ngữ. I have to raise my Chinese literacy level just to understand that [[Ōuluò]] refers to [[Âu Lạc]]. I see that there is a discussion of a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Vietnam#suggested_infobox suggested infobox] below. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 02:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== [[Districts of Vietnam]] ==
They should all exist now. Hopefully the lists I was using was correct. A double-check would be nice. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 00:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:This is incredible. Wish someone would do this for all the missing counties in China :) [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Well the articles were really basic and could have been written a bot. Then it would have taken about 2-3 hours instead of about 15-20. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
::And {{User|SatyrBot}} has stamped them. Districts are 2nd level divisions in VN, and Phuong are 3rd level, about 10500 of them......As far as [[WP:AUS]] goes, third level divisions (suburbs, corresponding) have articles - most have been created. And with 10,500 phuong around, that makes about 8500 Vietnamese people to a phuong, so, they're notable too if anyone wants to get cracking. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

:Well, just having the stubs allows users (including Wikipedians who actually live in these parts of Vietnam) to easily add information, more and more. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

==Need diacritics==
At [[Thach Thi Ngoc]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 05:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:This article lacks references and the person might not be notable besides being an Olympian. We need some record that shows that she was indeed an Olympian. [http://www.nguoi-viet.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=46345 This article] gives her name as "Ngọc Thị Thạch". [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
The article was added by [[User:Bnguyen]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:That user had been adding many articles on many non-notable people, such as "first Vietnamese-American solder to die in Iraq", "first Vietnamese-American police officer of a city", etc. When an article he created is about a notable person, his description of them does not make it clear how they're notable; for example, his description of [[Nguyen Khanh]] was that he was born in South Vietnam and is an ardent anti-communist. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
::And random council staffers in Garden Grove etc, etc. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 00:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

== TET! TET! TET IS COMING! ==

[[:Image:Banhchung.jpg|thumb|200px|right|EATTTT!!!]]
Hmm, am I the only one who feel overjoyed when Tet is coming? :)) Should we do something to celebrate the happiest time of the year? I have one week off, hooray!!! First we begin with [[banh chung]]. I found a very "delicious" image for those who find it impossible to colLect enough stuffs to make banh chung on their own. I can't find a free image, though, but I'll take a photo of my banh chung as my grandfather finishes cooking them all. [[User:@pple|@pple]] [[User talk:@pple|complain]] 16:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:The article [[Tết]] needs a serious overhaul. It has accumulated a lot of cruft over the years. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 17:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
::Write a few FAs, As and GAs. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 00:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

== Wikimedia inside Vietnam ==
@pple - are you in Vietnam? I was wondering what Wikimedia activities occur inside Vietnam to get more participation by Vietnamese people in Wikipedia projects. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

== Attention ==

An editor is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mayumashu removing] Vietnamese American categories. I believe Vietnamese who have lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years are usually U.S. citizens. Sometimes s/he is replacing "Vietnamese Americans" with "Vietnamese expatriates" and sometimes replacing it with "Vietnamese immigrants to the United States," but in all cases removing "Vietnamese Americans" from dozens of articles about individuals who are most likely U.S. citizens. Can others please chime in or invite this individual to create a discussion here before doing such a thing? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 04:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

== [[:Category:Immigrants to the United States]] ==
Hello. I m at work adding to [[:Category:Vietnamese immigrants to the United States]] to complete work on [[:Category:Immigrants to the United States]]. Several pages for Vietnamese in the U.S. are not specific on whether the person has gained citizenship or not. I ll take advice provided me and assume for now that people who have lived more than 5 years in the States have gained citizenship (including the large number of pro poker players most of whom seem to have arrived in the U.S. for poker and not because of the dislocation of the 1960s and 70s) Best regards [[User:Mayumashu|Mayumashu]] ([[User talk:Mayumashu|talk]]) 04:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks, why not just wait a day or two until others with expertise in this subject chime in here? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 04:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

:Well immigrants do not have to have citizenship to be considered immigrants. There is such as thing as "undocumented immigrants" (or more pejoratively, "illegal immigrants"). Regardless, they are still immigrants. There is also a sizable number of Vietnamese Americans who are lawful permanent residents but who are still working on getting their citizenship. The citizenship waiting list is backlogged, so it's not unusual to hear stories of people waiting for 10 to 20 years. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 02:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Need assistance with ingredients ==
Need help with partly-untranslated text at [[Mi Quang]]: "Pork chops are mixed with ground '''củ nén''', pepper, peanut oil, '''curcuma aeruginosa''' powder and '''màu điều'''. Stir- frying it fast and simmering it. (Need English for bold items.) [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 05:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
:The problem with the article is its lack of sourcing. Curcuma aeruginosa could well be a poor translation, when it is simply [[turmeric]] that is meant. I'm sure that [[pork chop]]s is a mistranslation and it is really ground or sliced pork that is meant. If you don't have access to the original, then it would be best to shorten the stub to the bits that seem certain. WP isn't a how-to manual, so we don't need to include all the ingredients. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the text will be fine when we figure out what the Vietnamese means. It's normal to list what is in Asian dishes. [[Turmeric]] should be ''củ nghệ'' in Vietnamese. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 19:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Operation Camargue‎]] ==
FAC for this battle in the [[First Indochina War]] is open. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 08:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

== Need help at [[Cao Lanh]] ==

Second paragraph seems to mention (redlinked) a province that no longer exists. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:50, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
:Since 1976, Vietnamese provinces have been merged, separated, remerged, re-separated, spun off, etc. countless times. For an analysis of the reasons behind this phenomenon and an overview of the changes made since French colonial times, see [http://comparativepolitics.stanford.edu/Papers2005-06/Malesky.Gerrymandering.10_10_05.pdf Gerrymandering - Vietnamese Style: The Political Motivations behind the Creation of New Provinces in Vietnam]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

== To be done ==
All the province articles need the correct district templates (the olive-colored ones that are in all the district articles) for that district.

Also, all the redlinks in all the province articles need to be dab'ed. Can that be done by bot? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

==Zodiac==
I recently created the pages [[water buffalo (zodiac)]] and [[cat (zodiac)]], then created a new category called Vietnamese astrology. I think this category should be added to the list of Vietnamese categories, but I do not want to do it because I'm not sure the best way.

Also, I added Vietnamese references to ALL the Chinese zodiac animals (see the categories at the bottom of [[pig (zodiac)]], for example). The close relationship between Chinese and Vietnamese zodiac animals makes it difficult to deal with. Should the Chinese zodiac animals be considered the same as the Vietnamese animals (except for water buffalo and cat), or should separate pages be created for the Vietnamese (and Thai, Japanese, etc.) animals, with cross-links to the Chinese pages?

Also, a table like the Chinese zodiac table would be nice:
{{Chinese zodiac}}

I do not know anything about Vietnamese culture, so I hope I have not made any errors in doing this. I will watch this page for a week or so. Best regards [[User:Wakablogger|Wakablogger]] ([[User talk:Wakablogger|talk]]) 06:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC) Wakablogger

== suggested infobox ==

{| style="float:right; border:1px solid; margin:5px"
|+ {{{boxtitle}}}
|-
|colspan=2 align=center| {{{img}}}
|-
! align=center bgcolor=lightgrey | [[English]]
| bgcolor=lightblue | {{{eng}}}
|-
|| [[Quốc ngữ|Quoc ngu]] || {{{qn}}}
|-
|| [[Hán tự|Han tu]] || {{{ht}}}
|-
|| [[Chữ Nôm|Chu nom]] || {{{cn}}}
|-
|| [[French]] || {{{fr}}}
|-
|}

-Suggested general historical infobox. say at [[template:vietnamese]] [[Special:Contributions/132.205.44.5|132.205.44.5]] ([[User talk:132.205.44.5|talk]]) 03:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Although some articles would be useful with [[template:chinese]] as many of the historical articles seem to cover southern China as well as northern Vietnam. [[Special:Contributions/132.205.44.5|132.205.44.5]] ([[User talk:132.205.44.5|talk]]) 04:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

== Needs diacritics ==
[[Chao tom]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 07:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
:Done. Ím on the diacrtic comptuer atm with VNKeys. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|photo straw poll]]'') 07:34, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

==MongHoa dress==
Do we need an article on [http://www.flickr.com/photos/7914983@N02/1942931580/ this kind of traditional Vietnamese dress]? I can't seem to get the diacritics from the photographer--does anyone know them? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:There's a valley called "Mường Hoa" in northern Vietnam and I'm guessing that dress is a traditional [[Muong people|Mường]] costume. The model in the photo appears to be an ethnic Kinh wearing an ethnic costume of the Muong. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:12, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks; as you can see from the discussion, she claims it's entirely Viet. She's perhaps just a high school student and doesn't know better. If Muong, though, why didn't she put the "ư" in the first syllable? Personally, I think it's a form of malpractice for Flickr users to upload photos and fail to adequately describe them, even after being asked. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 19:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:If it's an ethnic Vietnamese dress, I'll eat my hat. One of the comments said "[it makes you] look more like an ethnic [minority] girl than a kinh girl". [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Definitely a minority ethnic costume. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|photo straw poll]]'') 00:24, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::I don't see where she referred to it as an ethnic Vietnamese costume. In other photos in the gallery where she's in that costume, she jokingly referred to herself as "Gái Bản" (''Bản'' girl)[http://www.flickr.com/photos/7914983@N02/1943146168/]. ''Bản'' is a Vietnamese term for a mountain village, particularly indicative of the minority ethnic groups of Vietnam (another useful word is ''nương'', referring to agricultural land in the mountains). [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 19:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

If anything, she was cagey. I asked if it was Mong (Hmong) or Hoa (Chinese), and she just said, "it's a traditional dress of my country." What she should have said was, "No, you got the wrong ethnic group; it's not Hmong or Chinese, but Muong." That would have been the clearest and most factual explanation. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 04:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== Đại Nam ==

What is the translation of Đại Nam? "Great South"? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 04:23, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:Yes. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 04:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

== SatyrBot ==

I'm not sure why, but this bot keeps adding {{tl|WPVN}} to the article [[List of Blood+ characters|List of ''Blood+'' characters]]. This article is a character list of the Japanese anime television series ''[[Blood+]]'' --'''[[User:TheFarix|Farix]]''' ([[User talk:TheFarix|Talk]]) 12:52, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
:This seems to be some malfunction. The bot is tagging articles in the cats listed at [[User:Blnguyen/VN]] but I don't see any cats in there that would be triggering this. Can you? '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 00:11, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
::I see. [[Carl Fei Wang]] is categorised under Vietnamese manga, but redirects to the List article, and the bot seems to be following the cat in the redirect page and stamping the target page. I've removed the cat in the redirect. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 00:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
:The other reason may have to do with story: A few episodes are set in vietnam and deal with the vietnam war and the main characters role in the slaughter of US troops and vietnamese civies. That may have something to do with it, but that is only a guess. [[Special:Contributions/75.26.19.213|75.26.19.213]] ([[User talk:75.26.19.213|talk]]) 04:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wok]] ==

Is there a vi:WP article for [[Wok]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:13, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

== Point of clarification ==
Should {{USS|New Jersey|BB-62}} be tagged as being within this projects scope? It was present for a year or so, hence the question. [[Special:Contributions/75.26.19.213|75.26.19.213]] ([[User talk:75.26.19.213|talk]]) 04:55, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
:I think that should be ok, since a large chunk of the article is about the NJ's service in Vietnam. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 05:33, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
::I didn't actually see it there in the talk history at all. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 05:40, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Does this mean that every ship that made a deployment to/off of Vietnam during the Vietnam War falls under the scope of this project? Even if they don't, I would believe that {{USS|Newport News|CA-148}} does since the last half of her service history was spent on the gunline off Vietnam. -'''[[User:MBK004|MBK]]'''[[User talk:MBK004|004]] 00:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:I haven't been tagging every soldier or every boat that was in Vietnam, and I haven't systematically checked yet, but if something spent 30% of their working/notability career in Vietnam, then that seems like a reasonable rule of thumb to me. The other exception was that there were a few soldiers whose bios sole notability was because of them dying in Vietnam and being posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor so since all their notability was from activities in VN, they were blanket included included. As were the recipients of the "Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry" although most of them were Americans who were awarded by the RoV govt. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 01:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
::eg, there were some Infantry units that were categorised as "Units in the Vietnam War" but I skipped over it because the VN War section was about 10% of the article. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 01:17, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:::That makes sense. By the 30% threshold, Newport News does apply (not tagged for this project as of this edit), but I'm not sure about the carriers that were on Yankee or Dixie Station. -'''[[User:MBK004|MBK]]'''[[User talk:MBK004|004]] 01:21, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm going to be bold and tag Newport News for this project, per the 30% threshold. I'll leave the assessment to the members of this project. -'''[[User:MBK004|MBK]]'''[[User talk:MBK004|004]] 01:40, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Hi, all. A {{User|SatyrBot}} tagged the article [[Iowa class battleship]] as being within this projects scope, I'm guessing as a result of the tagging of ''New Jersey'' for her role in the vietnam war. As Iowa class battleship is presently a Featured Article I wonder if I may imposes upon one of this projects members to fill in the importance of the article to this project? I am not familar with you importance scale, and I doslike leaving empty parameters in talk page banners when the article in question is Featured. Thanks in advance. [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] ([[User talk:TomStar81|Talk]]) 08:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
::::I removed it as a false positive and put a repel notice on the page. The bot was tagging based on the VN war cat, but in this case, teh article has only a minor mention of vietnam. Less than 5%. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 09:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

== Cochin reference in primary source ==

I apologize to ask a question not directly related to our Wikiefforts, but I am hoping that someone can help me out. I am currently reading a Japanese [[Tsūkō ichiran|primary source document]] concerning relations between Edo period Japan and pre-colonial Vietnam. I have come across a reference to 交趾 (Giao Chỉ; the "Cochin" of Cochinchina), and while the editor's notes in my text explain that this refers to the capital of "Annam" at the time, I am not quite clear whether it refers to the Le, Trinh, or Nguyen capital, or whether it is something of a metaphor for the Trinh north as a whole, Nguyen south as a whole, or both together, i.e. Vietnam as a whole.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated. Thank you. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 06:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
::Just in case it might be helpful to anyone, here's the original text I'm working from: 「慶長六辛丑年より、海外数ヶ国入貢、夏交趾舶来る、當御代海舶の来る始なり」With the inscribed editor's note: 「按ずるに、前に辨せし如く、交趾は安南の都城の地なり」. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 06:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know much, the only book I have about that time is "Nguyen Cochinchina" by Li Tana, which talks at length between the strong trading relations between the Nguyen and the Japanese, especially through the pot of [[Hoi An]] (aka Faifo). In the old days, Cochinchina meant Nguyen territory in general. I dunno when Edo is either, but this commerce was in the 1600-1650 year range. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 06:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
::Sorry. I should have specified what I meant by Edo period (1603-1868). I've read Li's book - it's very useful and interesting. The problem is that my Japanese dictionary indicates that the term 交趾 refers to Tonkin/Hanoi, while everything else I know (such as the Western use of the term Cochinchina) points to the southern portion of the country. ... [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 00:01, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

== SatyrBot issue ==

[[User:SatyrBot]] is auto-adding the [[Template:WPVN]] on the [[Talk:Policies, activities and history of the Philippines in Spratly Islands|talk page]] of article [[Policies, activities and history of the Philippines in Spratly Islands]]. I believe that article is not covered by [[WP:VIET]]'s scope. It's about Philippines only. Read my conversation with [[User:SatyrTN]] [[User_talk:SatyrTN#Bot|here]], for my arguments why that article is not covered with your scope. The template is not yet deleted, I'll wait for your reply. Thanks [[User:Estarapapax|Estarapapax]] ([[User talk:Estarapapax|talk]]) 16:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, a false positive. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 03:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

== FACs ==
*[[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Double_Seven_Day_scuffle]]
*[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team (United States)]]

Are substantially about Vietnamese history. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 04:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Undiscussed page moves (again) ==

Once again, we've got an undiscussed page move ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=C%E1%BA%A3_River&diff=199921550&oldid=188306163 here]) to a title with diacritics, by an inveterate undiscussed-page-mover. Is this going to continue? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:44, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
:To support Vietnamese tone marks. The one who doesn't know this is not intellegence. Also, this one hates me so he tries to eliminate me. [[User:JacquesNguyen|JacquesNguyen]] ([[User talk:JacquesNguyen|talk]]) 01:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
::I don't think diacritics should be used on things that are half English, eg [[Ca River]], since River is clearly English. Same for provinces. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 01:03, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
:::No-one here hates anyone, Jacques Nguyen. I support diacritics and wish we could agree to use them consistently throughout - including in cases when half the word is English. But I'm looking for consensus on this. Let's discuss it properly and not fall out. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 20:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
:::That would mean we would need to omit the diacritics on [[Hồng Bàng Dynasty]] and just about every other dynasty listed in the [[history of Vietnam]]? The only reference to '''Cả River''' when I googled for it is the Wikipedia article itself (hah! go figure). '''Ca River''' is mentioned in the Encyclopedia Britannica as well as [http://www.mekonginfo.org/mrc_en/doclib.nsf/0/87FE88C624F03E6B472568CD0015AC86/$FILE/9LS_Thongmanivong_Final.html this paper] from the National University of Laos. I'd like to build up a consensus on this issue on this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_%28Vietnamese%29#Article_Title talk page]. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 04:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Need location ==

What is the modern-day location of "Sa Nam village, Ðông-liệt District, in the region between Mount Hùng and the Lam River," the birthplace of [[Phan Boi Chau]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
:[[Nghe An Province]] somewhere. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen#Straw_poll_for_selecting_photos_of_the_Indian_cricket_team_for_use_in_articles|vote in the photo straw poll]]'') 01:04, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

== FACs ==
*<s>[[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Nguyen Ngoc Tho]]</s>
**Passed. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 06:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
*<s>[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Early life and military career of John McCain]]</s>

Are substantially about Vietnamese history. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

*[[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/State of Vietnam referendum, 1955]]. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 04:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
*[[Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/1962 South Vietnamese Presidential Palace bombing]]. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 06:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== "Bac Thai" Province ==
Hello. I'm researching the Tonkin Snub-nosed monkey, a monkey species endemic to Northern Vietnam. [http://www.animalinfo.org/species/primate/pygaavun.htm Animal Info] says it only occurs in "Tuyen Quang and Bac Thai provinces". I can find [[Tuyen Quang Province]], but there is no [[Bac Thai Province]] or anything similar. Was it renamed? Or is it a spelling error? Thanks if you can help me --[[Special:Contributions/80.108.59.151|80.108.59.151]] ([[User talk:80.108.59.151|talk]]) 09:49, 2 April 2008 (UTC) ([[:de:Benutzer:Bradypus]])

:[[User:DHN]] points out that there has been an epidemic of politically motivated province-splitting that the government of Vietnam has conducted over the past 30 years. If you look at [[Provinces of Vietnam]] you'll see two small provinces adjacent to Tuyen Quang Province: [[Bac Kan Province]] and [[Thai Nguyen Province]]. They probably used to be a single province. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 09:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

:Here's some confirmation of this: [http://books.google.com/books?id=Z8jzpQoVEtoC&pg=RA1-PA302&lpg=RA1-PA302&dq=%22Bac+Kan%22+%22Thai+Nguyen%22+%22bac+thai%22&source=web&ots=MNt3vTBzja&sig=nlkvCUOjIYHivAuF87dxcyjP1KU&hl=en]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 09:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks for your help, Badagnani. You were right, according to [http://www.theprimata.com/pygathrix_avunculus.html this website], which I found right now, Bac Thai have been split into two provinces: Bac Kan and Thai Nguyen. But thanks nevertheless. --[[Special:Contributions/80.108.59.151|80.108.59.151]] ([[User talk:80.108.59.151|talk]]) 11:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

== CJKV taskforce ==

The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation/CJKV taskforce|CJKV taskforce]] has been created to assist in disambiguation of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese when using [[Kyūjitai]], [[Hanja]], [[Hán tự]], [[Simplified Chinese]], and [[Shinjitai]] ([[Kanji]]). If you wish to participate, please come and help out. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|日本穣]][[Help:Japanese|?]] · [[User talk:Nihonjoe|Talk to Nihonjoe]] 18:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[24 solar terms]] ==

Does the article [[24 solar terms]] need to be added to the project? I would find it useful if someone could comment on the relevance of this concept in contemporary Vietnam and/or the diaspora. I found it linked at [[Cross-quarter day]], where European and east Asian calendars are linked in some pure [[WP:OR|original research]]. Thanks. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:They are rarely-used but are often-heard-of concepts. One popular misconception is that the dates are based on the Chinese calendar; this is not so: solar terms are purely based on the movement of the sun, so the dates will be the same (give or take a day) every year in the Gregorian calendar - it's the Chinese calendar dates that will vary each year. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 15:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::I knew you would know. Please add the project banner to the article if you think it appropriate. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 19:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

== Question: "Thin-Hao" near or part of Hanoi ==

I have a question. There is a French chessplayer (and half-Vietnamese) [[César Boutteville]], born 1917 in "Thin-Hao" near or part of Hanoi. I could not find anything about this town or village which is probably nowadays a city quarter of Hanoi. It has probably a different name today. Can anybody help me? --[[User:DaQuirin|DaQuirin]] ([[User talk:DaQuirin|talk]]) 17:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:Perhaps that name is a corruption of [[Thanh Hoa]] (it's always been Thanh Hoa). [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 21:14, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
::Thank you for your quick reaction. It seems to be a distorted name. But in the available sources it is stated that he was born in the outskirts of the city (''né dans la banlieue de Hanoï''). So "Thin-Hao" should nowadays be part of the city!? [[Thanh Hoa]] seems to be a bit too far off (or the French get it wrong, but the man is still alive and they should know...). Is there a place in the internet to find some historic map of Hanoi region from the French colonial period? --[[User:DaQuirin|DaQuirin]] ([[User talk:DaQuirin|talk]]) 01:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I asked over at vi.wikipedia and [[:vi:User:Dung005]] answered that it's probably Thịnh Hào village. Nowadays it's called ngõ Thịnh Hào in Hàng Bột Ward, Đống Đa District, Hanoi. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 01:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Great, you both found the solution! Thank you very much indeed. --[[User:DaQuirin|DaQuirin]] ([[User talk:DaQuirin|talk]]) 02:03, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

==Vietnamese people in Taiwan==
Hello everyone, I nominated [[Vietnamese people in Taiwan]] (include "en:" and other languages) as a candidate in [[m:Translation of the week/Translation candidates|Translation of the week]]. :) [[User:Luuva|Luuva]] ([[User talk:Luuva|talk]]) 15:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

==Need Vietnamese name==
Need Vietnamese name for [http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/attachments/month_0704/1138985266886_fg2RooKKmU6d.jpg this type of drum]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:Toy drum? [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:56, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
It has a name in about 6 other Asian languages, so most likely also has one in Vietnamese. The term "toy drum" could refer to other varieties of small drum for children. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

== Diacritics needed ==
Diacritics needed in Vietnamese name of [[Tila Tequila]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:Any name given will be pure speculation unless she states it herself; which is not very likely. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Some of us have better Vietnamese-language skills to search on Vietnamese-language websites then others of us. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:AFAIK she's never given any interview to any Vietnamese-language publication and Tila seems to be the name she's used since childhood. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
So where does the diacritic-less Vietnamese name come from? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 07:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:Either she gave it in some interview, it's written in some legal document, or someone made it up (most likely). [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:If you want speculation, here are some possible names, ranked by decreasing possibility: Nguyễn Thị Thiện Thanh, Thiên Thanh, Thiên Thành, Thiện Thành. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Better add a citeneeded tag, then. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 07:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

== Caucasians in Vietnam ==
Can someone help at the question just posted [[Talk:List of ethnic groups in Vietnam|here]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
:I think this is going to be very difficult to answer. "Caucasian" defines a race rather than an ethnicity. Obviously there are people who have moved to Vietnam in recent years from Europe, North America and Australia and most of these could be called "Caucasian", though they might not want to be called that. Some are expats (intending to return to their original countries), others have sought naturalisation. I don't think the expats should be counted as among ethnic groups of Vietnam since they are not citizens. As for the naturalised people, I don't know if they identify as American-Vietnamese etc. or just as Vietnamese. And on top of all that, are any statistics collected? [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 17:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::They'd most likely be considered "undistinguished ethnic groups," as the [[Undistinguished ethnic groups in China]]. They can be listed at [[List of ethnic groups in Vietnam#Ethnic groups not included in official list]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 17:40, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Vietnam in the Dutch Empire ==

Hello everyone! There is a discussion at [[Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map]], because user [[User:Red4tribe|Red4tribe]] has made a map of the [[Dutch Empire]] ([[:Image:Dutch Empire 4.png]]) that includes significative parts of Vietnam. Would you like to comment? Thank you. [[User:The Ogre|The Ogre]] ([[User talk:The Ogre|talk]]) 15:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

New Map
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dutch_Empire_new.PNG
http://www.colonialvoyage.com/ square=tradingpost
([[User:Red4tribe|Red4tribe]] ([[User talk:Red4tribe|talk]]) 16:32, 26 April 2008 (UTC))
:Still OR, POV and unsourced (yours is not not a credible source). Please discuss stuff at [[Talk:Dutch Empire#Request For Comment: Map]]. This was just a request for comment, not a discussion. Thank you. [[User:The Ogre|The Ogre]] ([[User talk:The Ogre|talk]]) 16:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

==Deletion proposal==
See [[Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2008_April_27#Template:Chinese]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 14:29, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== FACs ==
*[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Le Quang Tung]]
*[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ngo Dinh Can]]
'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
*[[Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Krulak Mendenhall mission]]
'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 06:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

==China and PRC articles request to be renamed==
User:SmuckyTheCat is requesting that [[China]] be renamed, and replaced by the [[People's Republic of China]] article at "China". This will greatly affect articles that use the link to [[China]] to refer to Imperial China, as they will need to be fixed. [[Special:Contributions/70.55.88.176|70.55.88.176]] ([[User talk:70.55.88.176|talk]]) 08:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

== Satyr ==

Have you replaced [[User:SatyrTN]]'s [[User:SatyrBot]]? We at [[WP:CHICAGO]] are looking for a replacement since he is no longer active. Please respond at my talk page.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] ([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) 18:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

== Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested ==

Within [[WP:COMPANIES|WikiProject Companies]] I am trying to establish guidelines for all [[:Category:Lists of companies by country|Lists of companies by country]], the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Companies/Lists of companies by country|here]]. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - [[User:Richc80|Richc80]] ([[User talk:Richc80|talk]]) 14:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

== Deletion discussion ==

See [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dee Luong]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

== Requests for ratings ==

Is anyone looking at these? I ask as I just added two to the page and noticed that the previous two had been added ''months'' ago. [[User:IainP|IainP]] [[User talk:IainP|(talk)]] 08:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Bắc Cạn]] ==
At [[Viet Bac]], [[Bắc Cạn]] is mentioned. Is this an alternate spelling for [[Bac Kan Province|Bắc Kạn]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 21:13, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:Yes, the initial "K" sound is not proper Vietnamese, but used officially probably to give an "ethnic" feel. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 22:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

== Chà bông ==
Should ''chà bông'' (also called ''thịt chà bông'') have its own article or should it just redirect to [[Rousong]]? For [[Tofu]] or [[Soy sauce]] we have a single article but, for example, for foods that are significantly different we have separate articles for [[Miso]], [[Doenjang]], and [[Tương]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 21:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

:Only if there is a notable difference, which I don't find to be the case. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 20:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

==Phở tái lăn==
''Phở tái lăn'' is mentioned at the [[Pho]] article, but what is the literal meaning of this name? A Vietnamese person has told me that such a name doesn't exist, but I do see it online. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:''tái'' means to cook rare. I'm not sure what ''lăn'' refers to in this case - it literally means "to roll". [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 00:14, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds like the way the meat is prepared. I've been to a few phở restaurants where phở tái are different. Some are prepared with thinly slice meat, while others are more like chunks of meat, which is more typical of the way it is prepared in Northern Vietnam. I suspect Phở tái lăn merely refers to the Northern Vietnamese way of serving Phở tái. [[User:Yellowtailshark|Yellowtailshark]] ([[User talk:Yellowtailshark|talk]]) 20:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Is this findable? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

::Really? I am from Northern Vietnam and there they have all ''phở tái lăn'', ''phở tái gầu'', ''phở tái nạm'' whose names depend on quality of beef. @ Badagnani: Almost Phở restaurants in Hanoi serve ''tái lăn'', not sure about other cities (and other countries), best regard :). [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 19:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

:Thank you; can you tell us what ''lăn'' means (is it in your Vietnamese dictionary)? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:What do ''phở tái gầu'' and ''phở tái nạm'' mean, and should these terms be added to the article? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:28, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

::I think ''phở tái lăn'' can be translated as ''phở with briefly fried beef'', for the other two ''gầu'' and ''nạm'', I will find answer from my friends because I am not sure how they serve them (I am not in Vietnam now). [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 02:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:Thank you, also the meaning of ''lăn'' will be great. Do you not have a good Vietnamese dictionary there? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
::As [[User:DHN|DHN]] said, ''tái'' is rare beef. They serve rare beef by some ways. ''Tái lăn'' is rare beef by frying it for very short time (so ''lăn'' can be called ''briefly fry''). For others, I find [http://flail.com/pho.cong.ly.html this web] with good definition of ''tái nạm'', ''tái gầu'' and ''tái sách''. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 14:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

==Page move request==
See [[Talk:Nanyue#Requested_Move]] [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 12:58, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

==About the article [[Hoa]]==

The article [[Hoa]] needs urgent attention by an expert. It has been compromised by serial systematic bias. [[Special:Contributions/122.105.150.76|122.105.150.76]] ([[User talk:122.105.150.76|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
:What do you have against it? It seems that you keep making assertions without backing them up with reliable sources. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 06:36, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

== Article [[Aodai]] ==

I've done quite a bit of editing on this article recently and I plan to nominate it as a "good article." Check out and see if you can improve it before it gets nominated. Also, someone other than me has to evaluate it. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 18:11, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

:'''Update''': The nomination is on the board now. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 17:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

::Kauffner, can you find better [[WP:RS]] sources, like a book about Vietnamese culture from a proper publisher. Because a lot of the sources you quotes were from blogs or self-styled websites and the GA reviewer will likely ocmplain. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:04, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

== colonial eras ==

The articles [[Annam (Chinese Province)]], [[Annam (French protectorate)]], [[Tonkin]] are somewhat mixed up. The French Annam has information more appropriate to the Tonkin article, or the Chinese Annam article. Further, there's more spillage into the [[Cochinchina]] article. I think the French protectorate/colonies should be clearly delineated in their coverage, and the Chinese colony/province article also, so that each more properly focuses in their area, instead of replicating [[History of Vietnam]]. North of Vietnam, Center of Vietnam, South of Vietnam should be the "whole" overview articles on the three zones.

*[[North of Vietnam]] - Tonkin, Chinese Annam, North Vietnam, Northern Vietnam
*[[Center of Vietnam]] - Champa, French Annam, the N/S border, Central Vietnam
*[[South of Vietnam]] - former Cambodian lands, Cochin, South Vietnam, Southern Vietnam
* etc.

[[Special:Contributions/70.55.87.181|70.55.87.181]] ([[User talk:70.55.87.181|talk]]) 13:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:"North of Vietnam" doesn't sound like real English to me. The natural way to express this thought would be "North Vietnam," "Central Vietnam," and "South Vietnam." But those names mean something different because interest in Vietnamese history is so focused on the war years. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 16:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

::What's wrong with [[Northern Vietnam]], [[Central Vietnam]], and [[Southern Vietnam]]? [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 16:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

:::That could work. Right now they're redirects, though the [[Northern and southern Vietnam]] article defines only two regions, when historically, there were three cultural-geographic zones (China/Tonkin/North, Champa/Center, Cambodia/South). [[Special:Contributions/70.55.202.181|70.55.202.181]] ([[User talk:70.55.202.181|talk]]) 23:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

::::And the Mien Trung article leads to the central highlands only and not teh central coast. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

::For the U.S., it's the [[Northern United States]] and the [[Southern United States]], even thought the vast majority of Americans would say "the North" and "the South." The articles themselves follow this usage in their text. I would suggest a similar solution here. The main reason for dividing Vietnam into three regions isn't so much the history, but because the Vietnamese language has three major dialects. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 05:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

We need these articles, because it's better than all these links to Tonkin, Annam and CC to mean a general region. Although using T A and CC for the specific colony is fine. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:06, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

== Articles flagged for cleanup ==

Currently, 766 of the articles assigned to this project, or 18.2%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of {{date|2008-06-18}}.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See [[User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings]] for details. Subsribing is easy - just add [[User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription|a template]] to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at [[User talk:B. Wolterding|my user talk page]]. --[[User:B. Wolterding|B. Wolterding]] ([[User talk:B. Wolterding|talk]]) 17:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

==Edit Warring at [[Nanyue]]==
Urgent attention is needed at [[Nanyue]] to prevent continual edit warring. User Webster121 suspected of vandalising article to advance pro-Vietnam views and utilising sockpuppetry to facilitate his serial policy violations. [[Special:Contributions/122.109.98.117|122.109.98.117]] ([[User talk:122.109.98.117|talk]]) 03:06, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

==Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme==

As you [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2008-06-23/Dispatches|may have heard]], we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment|WP:ASSESS]].
*The '''new C-Class''' represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
*The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment/B-Class_criteria|a rubric]], and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
*A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment/A-Class_criteria|described here]].

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at [[:Category:C-Class_articles]]. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Index|The bot]] is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please [[Wikipedia_talk:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Assessment#WikiProject_responses|leave a message]] with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the [[Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team|1.0 Editorial Team]], [[User:ShepBot|'''§hepBot''']]''' ([[User talk:ShepBot|Disable]])''' 21:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article needing some translation ==

[[Le Quang Nhac]], an article about a Vietnamese composer is listed in the articles in need of translation. Some of the text is badly translated, some still in Vietnamese. I'll tag it for the project. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 21:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

== Nguoi o lại Charlie ==

There are currently no articles for either [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAebo3laIgk "Nguoi o lại Charlie"] (At Charlie, the men stayed) or [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26NkXQvvPMI "Hat Tren Nhung Xac Nguoi"] (Singing above the bodies), two popular war songs. I hope we can correct this. Listen to "Singing above the bodies." You won't forget it. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 04:19, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

:[[Trinh Cong Son]] wrote countless songs about the war, among them ''Bài ca dành cho những xác người'' (''Song for the corpses''), ''Gia tài của mẹ'' (''A mother's legacy''). You can find translations for some of the songs [http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~nguyenvu/Artists/TC_Son/VT_Music_TCSon_songs.htm here]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 04:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

::I put a link to a recording of "[[Hat Tren Nhung Xac Nguoi]]" on Son's page. The name of song is now redirects there. But "Charlie" still needs a home. Did Trần Thiện Thanh write anything else worth mentioning? I think song is much more famous than either the singer or the writer and in that case information about it should be under the name of the song.
::The translations don't do much for me. Music needs to be heard. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 08:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

:::I think this is putting undue weight on one song out of hundreds of his songs. The song is not necessarily a tribute to the massacre victims, and its purpose might have been hijacked for use not intended by the author. [[:vi:Trần Thiện Thanh|Trần Thiện Thanh]] was also a noted songwriter. He wrote over 100 songs, among them the most famous are: ''Chiếc áo bà ba'', ''Chiều trên phá Tam Giang'', ''Anh không chết đâu anh'', etc. Like many musicians who stopped working or who left Vietnam after 1975, he is largely forgotten within Vietnam (and probably unknown in northern Vietnam), but his works are regularly performed in overseas Vietnamese communities and some other (those not overtly about the war) are performed in Vietnam itself. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 08:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

::::I suggest making an en:WP article for Thanh, and also for making a list of Son's songs, either at Son's article or at a separate article, the way we do for Mozart or any other composer. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 08:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

:::Son finished writing the song on Feb. 28, 1968. He was living in Hue at that time and the massacre had just ended. What do you think was on his mind? [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 13:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
::::Protracted fighting in Hue caused massive civilian casualties. I don't think the mass graves were discovered until much later. His other song about the Tet offensive, ''Bài ca dành cho những xác người'', described corpses lying everywhere - not being put in mass graves. The song never specifically mentioned the massacre. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 15:11, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

== Attention ==
[[User:Kinh Duong Vuong]] ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kinh_Duong_Vuong contributions]) is changing numbers in articles (particularly numbers of forces in various battles), always without comment or sources. Our encyclopedia has to be trustworthy but as this editor never makes comments or adds sources for such changes, I would ask that other members of this project keep a watchful eye on his/her contributions. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

== Wikiproject suggestion ==

There was a proposal for a China/Korea/Japan relations wikiproject. I suggested that it be expanded to also include Vietnam. [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Wikiproject_Sino-Japanese-Korean_relations]] [[Special:Contributions/70.51.9.25|70.51.9.25]] ([[User talk:70.51.9.25|talk]]) 05:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

==Dodgy edits at [[Talk:Nanyue]]==
An IP editor has been inserting highly inappropriate comments at [[Talk:Nanyue]] under various IP addresses. Urgent attention is needed to combat their serial racial abuse and condescending claims that the Cantonese people are not closely related to the Vietnamese people. The IP editor has been suspected of being a sockpuppeteer. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 05:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

==Project talk page tagging==
'''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' had [[User_talk:Tinucherian#Project_talk_page_tagging|requested me for the]] service of [[User:TinucherianBot|TinucherianBot]] to tag articles in the categories in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories]] for the WikiProject Vietnam. I request the members to kindly have a look and to carefully verify ALL the categories and remove all the possibly wrong categories. Dont misunderstand by being cautious here , as we have faced many issues with such huge scale bot tagging before (see [[WP:BON#TinucherianBot]] ). Once I get the final go ahead, I will start the bot with the final list. Thank you for choosing [[User:TinucherianBot|TinucherianBot]] for the project,. It is a pleasure working for this project -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 05:47, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

: I am leaving a msg on the talk pages of all members -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 05:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::For example, [[:Category:Yi people]] has mostly China-related content. We should be cautious about some of these. Also, the history categories may include things like [[World War II]], which shouldn't be tagged with WPVN. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 06:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for not being a subject expert on Vietnam. But I am sharing below some of the categories found in the list. Can someone see if the categories mentioned are relavent to be completely tagged ? It will be good if you could go into the categories and have a check on the articles.

# [[:Category:American military personnel killed in the Vietnam War]]
# <s>[[:Category:American people of the Vietnam War]]</s>
# <s>[[:Category:Americans of Vietnamese descent]]</s>
# [[:Category:Asia Entertainment]]
# [[:Category:Battle of Ia Drang]]
# [[:Category:Battles and operations of the First Indochina War]]
# [[:Category:Battles and operations of the Vietnam War]]
# [[:Category:Battles involving Vietnam]]
# [[:Category:Battles of the Sino-French War]]
# [[:Category:Birds of Vietnam]]
# [[:Category:Buddhist crisis]]
# [[:Category:First Indochina War]]
# [[:Category:Gin people]]
# [[:Category:Military campaigns involving Vietnam]]
# [[:Category:Military history of Vietnam during World War II]]
# <s>[[:Category:Opposition to the Vietnam War]]</s>
# [[:Category:Paris by Night singers]]
# [[:Category:Paris By Night]]
# [[:Category:Sino-French War]]
# [[:Category:Tai history]]
# [[:Category:Tai peoples]]
# [[:Category:Third Indochina War]]
# [[:Category:United States military bases of the Vietnam War]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War amphibious warfare vessels of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War auxiliary ships of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War cruisers of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War destroyers of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War frigates and destroyer escorts of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War ships of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Vietnam War submarines of the United States]]
# [[:Category:Wars involving Vietnam]]
# <s>[[:Category:World War II shipwrecks in the South China Sea]]</s>

If they are not to be tagged, kindly go to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories|list]] and remove them.. Thanks in advance -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 11:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

::Most of the categories listed directly above seem good. We need to decide if we are tagging the articles on individual US soldiers who fought in the Vietnam War and other US topics that relate to the Vietnam War. Also, I think that we can remove the categories for Sino-French War, Cambodian Civil War, and other wars that do not 100% involve Vietnam; when an individual battle or other article does relate to Vietnam, it will be under another category, such as "Battles involving Vietnam" and will get tagged. ... I'm going to remove those war categories from the list. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 13:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:::I didn't think the two on Tai peoples were relevant. More interestingly, [[CAT:Gin people]] is a subcat of [[People of Vietnamese descent]], which could be tagged as a whole. There may some other cases where we could come up a level on the cats. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:Can somebody look into the rest of categories regarding United States ? Are they appropriate, people might just oppose tagging them as Vietnam too ... -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 12:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
::I think it's something we need to discuss as a Project, perhaps along with others, such as the [[WP:MILHIST|Military History Project]], as to whether or not we consider these things to be within our purview, rather than simply a matter of any one of us looking at the categories and deciding... I raised the same issue some time ago, before there was a Vietnam Project, [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Southeast_Asia#Vietnam_War|here]], and there wasn't much response or discussion, so I don't know if the matter was ever really resolved. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 17:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I removed the ones I crossed out. For the US personnel killed in VN, these are basically all Medal of Honor recipients, soldiers who were notable for getting killed by doing something very brave. As all their notable activities occurred in VN, I left it in there. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 03:23, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
: So shall I consider [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vietnam/Categories]] as the final 'cleaned' up list. I will start the bot run soon...To be 'safe' , I will run the categories that invoves US men and military , the war categories on the second phase... I will keep updated of the progress... -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 06:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
::Yes please. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 06:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
::: Thanq.. {{doing}} : I am working on configuring the bot on the categories -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 07:26, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
:Phase 1 is starting soon [[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET]] -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 07:22, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
:: {{doing}} : Started ! -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 05:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_1|Phase 1]]''' : Completed -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 10:40, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_2|Phase 2]]''' : Completed -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 16:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_3|Phase 3]]''' : Completed -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 19:31, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_4|Phase 4]]''' : Completed -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 02:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_5|Phase 5]]''' : doing -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 02:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

:::Thank you, Tinucherian; you are one of the best Wikipedians. You've helped us a lot. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 16:23, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: Thanks Badagnani for your kind words. -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 16:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

This is the list of last Phase (5) categories, possibly a list of 'risky' categories:

[[:Category:American military personnel killed in the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Battle of Ia Drang]] , [[:Category:Battles and operations of the First Indochina War]] , [[:Category:Battles and operations of the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Battles involving Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Birds of Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Campaigns of the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Congressional opposition to the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Fauna of Vietnam]] , [[:Category:First Indochina War]] , [[:Category:Military campaigns involving Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Military history of Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Military history of Vietnam during World War I]] , [[:Category:Military history of Vietnam during World War II]] , [[:Category:Military operations involving Vietnam]] , [[:Category:Military operations of the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Naval battles involving Vietnam]] , [[:Category:North Vietnamese Vietnam War flying aces]] , [[:Category:Paracel Islands]] , [[:Category:Second Indochina War]] , [[:Category:Spratly Islands]] , [[:Category:Third Indochina War]] , [[:Category:United States military bases of the Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War amphibious warfare vessels of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War auxiliary ships of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War cruisers of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War destroyers of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War frigates and destroyer escorts of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War military equipment]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War ships of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War submarines of the United States]] , [[:Category:Vietnam War]] , [[:Category:Wars involving Vietnam]]

Can some one go through the above and let us know if any of the categories above need to avoided ? Thanks in advance. -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 04:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
:They look ok. '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 05:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
: '''[[User:TinucherianBot/Autotagg/WPVIET#Phase_5|Phase 5]]''' : Completed.

{{Completed}} : Over 4000 article talk pages were edited including new additions and fixing banner redirects ....It was a pleasure working for this project. Now that I have gained 'confidence' in your project categories, next time it should be much easier. Don't hesitate to ask my Bot for help for your project again :) -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 16:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

==Wrong Tagging by the bot==
{{Caution|Placeholder for reporting 'False Positive' Tagging by [[User:TinucherianBot|TinucherianBot]] for WikiProject Vietnam.}}
:Please report the issues below. We will work on them.

===Question the following tag===
I wonder if tagging [[Plum Village]] is appropriate. Plum Village is a Buddhist monastery in France, and while it was started by Thich [[Nhat Hanh]], it is not exclusively for Vietnamese people. [[User:Nightngle|Nightngle]] ([[User talk:Nightngle|talk]]) 14:33, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
:What does it hurt to tag it? In any case, I figure that at least some people here at WP:VN would be more qualified to watch over, edit, expand the article than the average WP:France editor, right? [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 16:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
::I feel the same way. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 16:22, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
: Plum Village was tagged because it was under [[:Category:Overseas Vietnamese Buddhist temples]] -- [[User:Tinucherian|''' Tinu''']] [[User talk:Tinucherian|'''Cherian ''']] - 04:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

::OK, I think these should be included/tagged with WPVN. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 05:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

:::Except that [[Plum Village]] is not a Vietnamese monastery, so it seems misleading. The monastery isn't in the WP:France project, but is in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Buddhism]] which would cover any "watching over" it needs with no problems. [[User:Nightngle|Nightngle]] ([[User talk:Nightngle|talk]]) 16:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

::It's not in Vietnam but then neither are many Vietnamese people. The leaders are Vietnamese and the article is chock full of quoc ngu names. I'm a member of WPVN and I would like to improve it for this reason, so it seems a good fit. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 16:59, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

==Warning! High risk of severe spamming and vandalism==
User [[User:Nefbmn|Nefbmn]] has been inserting extremely offensive commentary about ethnic Vietnamese and a number of other ethnic groups at various talk pages recently. In particular, [[Talk:Nanyue]] needs to be watched closely for any signs of abuse. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 05:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

== Request for verification ==

There's been a request for verification at [[Lý Long Tường]], by an editor who cannot read Vietnamese (and thus cannot cross-check with [[:vi:Lý Long Tường]], but who nevertheless believes that this article smacks of pseudo- or invented history. All you Vietnamese history buffs, please check in. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

==Funny Business at [[Hoa]]==
It seems that any attempt to suggest that the [[Hoa]] people and their descendants are ethnically Vietnamese is met with amusement or disgust; this is despite the fact that no one has a problem with the notion that Hoa people and their descendants living in the US are [[Vietnamese American]], '''not''' [[Chinese American]]. More editors who actually know their Vietnamese history need to check it out. 
By the way, it is ironic that [[Hoa]] is rated as a high importance article for WikiProject Vietnam given that it seems to experience far less input from editors of Vietnamese background than from Overseas Chinese (the article is considered "low importance" for WikiProject China). [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 12:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

== Borrowed Scenery in traditional East Asian gardens ==

I [[WP:Be bold|was bold]] and moved the article "[[Shakkei and the picturesque]]", a title no one would ever search for or link to, to the far more common and straightforward "[[borrowed scenery]]". I have done a little to bring a more worldwide view (i.e. not just Japan) into the intro sentence, and added the East Asian languages template, to represent the different ways this term is pronounced in different languages.

A lot of work needs to be done to expand this out to cover the Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese (and other?) applications of this concept, not just the Japanese, and the Korean and Vietnamese words need to be added to the language template at the top.

I am no expert on this subject, especially not on the non-Japanese aspects/versions of it, and so I apologize for leaving it in this half-done state, and implore anyone with an interest and an expertise in traditional East Asian gardens to contribute whatever you can. Thank you. [[User:LordAmeth|LordAmeth]] ([[User talk:LordAmeth|talk]]) 17:20, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

==Severely Problematic POV Pushing==
Everyone who knows Vietnamese history should check out [[First Chinese domination (History of Vietnam)]] immediately. There are crucial omissions. The article appeared after [[User:Kinh Duong Vuong]] turned the former redirect to [[Nanyue]] into a fully fledged article. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 01:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Need diacritics ==

Need diacritics at [[Nguyen Hop Doan]]. Also, why do most of the external links deal with subjects other than the subject of the article? It doesn't make sense. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

==Need help at [[Battle of Bạch Đằng River (938)]]==
[[User:Rungbachduong]] seems to believe that the article [[Battle of Bạch Đằng River (938)]] is factually accurate and neutral. However, I believe otherwise. There is only one reference to a government-controlled website that I believe is a mousepiece of the Vietnamese Communist Party (or their sympathisers) and thus unsuitable for use at Wikipedia. Of more concern though is the overall quality of the article. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 00:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
:The point here is not believe or disbelieve, I just removed those improper templates that you are trying to put everywhere because of your argument. I recall one more time that we use sources and references after [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]], not after your criteria, so please do not them here or other articles. Thank you.
:If anyone notice improper templates put by David873 in articles relating with Vietnam's subject, please remove them and remind him. Thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 01:01, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Battle of Bạch Đằng (938)

2008-08-07T00:52:57Z

Rungbachduong: /* This article is biased */

Talk:Lý Long Tường

2008-08-06T15:23:55Z

Rungbachduong: /* Korean name */

{{WikiProject Vietnam|class=stub|importance=}}
{{WikiProject Korea|class=start|importance=|wg=history}}

==Korean name==
Was his Korean name Yi Nyeong-sang? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:30, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
:I tried Googling but got zero results for "이융상 베트남". --'''[[User:Kjoonlee|Kjoon]]'''[[User talk:Kjoonlee|lee]] 11:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
::Can you help us to find information about [http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/56/biz_philanthropy08_Ly-Sang-Jun_C6QR.html this Korean]? Because it's him who [http://www.hanvietfoundation.org/ proclaimed] descendent of Prince Ly Long Tuong. Thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 15:23, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hoax tag ==
What does the editor who placed the "hoax" tag believe to be fradulent/falsified in this article? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

See [http://books.google.com/books?id=mtU4H21wdFoC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=%22L%C3%BD+Long+T%C6%B0%E1%BB%9Dng%22+-wikipedia&source=web&ots=UhxKW0zUQ8&sig=bxprA2YQ8Tj412hMldpVnPedDsk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result Google Books search here]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:47, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Another article [http://www.vusta.vn/english/news_detail.asp?id=22944 here]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

:I placed a hoax tag because there are currently rather wild rumours flying all over the place regarding the supposed connections between certain political figures in the Korean peninsula and modern-day Vietnam. It is likely that the historical figure that the article is discussing actually exists; however, the information given does make me wonder whether a large chunk of it is just pseudo-history (I should add that the edit history is conspicuously short; obviously; this must an obscure topic). This actually reminds of how even an article like [[Trung Sisters]] tends to accumulate a lot of blatant pseudo-history and misrepresentations.

:Also, many books are written for deceptive purposes. I would not rely too heavily on book searches (unless it comes from a place like a reputable University) from the Internet if I were you.

:By the way, the website you have just provided seems to lead to a communist controlled website as it resolves to the .vn domain. This immediately trashes its credibility, ''regardless of the factual accuracy of the material being presented''. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 01:13, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Many sites that resolve to capitalist domains are full of misinformation as well. Let us begin evaluating the information now. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

:We've found only sources that are newspapers in Vietnam. Here is a good one (but in Vietnamese, sorry)[http://www.tuoitre.com.vn/tianyon/Index.aspx?ArticleID=172630&ChannelID=89] with information on Ly Long Tuong's decendents, who are now Korean citizens, some have visited and now do business in Vietnam, some even brought the whole family to live in Vietnam. This "Tuoi tre" is one of the 4 or 5 biggest newspapers in Vietnam. I don't see any reasons to say that "Tuoi tre" does not satisfy [[WP:V]], unless [[WP:V]] said something like "any communist-related sources are not reliable".
:Anyway, I'll ask vi editors to find non-Vietnamese sources and tell you as soon as we find one.
:[[User:Tmct|Tmct]] ([[User talk:Tmct|talk]]) 12:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
::@ David873: See for yourself [[Vietnamese people in Korea]], and if you want to claim that article POV, unreliable or even hoax, place "some" templates there too. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 15:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hoax or not, some of the details are clearly wrong. In the absence of good sourcing, that casts doubt on the reliability of the rest. For one example, Pusan is nowhere near South Hwanghae province. --[[User:Amble|Amble]] ([[User talk:Amble|talk]]) 23:17, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
::With the above sources, I removed {{tl|hoax}}. If David873 have further question, please put it here before place template, thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 19:49, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I have just done a Google search and I am still unconvinced that the article is not hoax. I noticed that the Google search is literally littered with links to websites that are either commercial, this Wikipedia article itself, references books whose authenticity and reliability cannot be ascertained or websites whose neutrality is questionable due to their association with either Vietnam or Vietnamese culture. Furthermore, not a single reliable English language publication on this historical figure could be found (note that sources from the Vietnamese government or its agencies are NOT to be trusted for obvious reasons). On the contrary, I have strong reasons (mostly geographic) to believe that at best, this historical figure only had tenuous links to Vietnam and far more likely that there were, in fact, no connections at all. 
:::Again, I have to reiterate the fact that the conspicuously short edit history (prior to the hoax tag being placed) speaks for itself, considering the fact that this article has existed for more than 12 months. Until a valid and reliable source in English surfaces, the hoax tag will remain in the article. Furthermore, I am seriously considering deletion of the article should it become clear that a substantial number of editors from the relevant WikiProjects believe that the article is a hoax and that there are simply no reliable sources in English available. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 10:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
::::So if we agree with your suggestion (''websites whose neutrality is questionable due to their association with either Vietnam or Vietnamese culture''), from now on, all articles relating with American culture must remove all source coming from CNN, NYTimes,...? Furthermore, "Institute of Southeast Asian Studies" is of course NOT a Vietnamese publisher but you still try to ignore that one (with your argument)?
::::"I have strong reasons" - show us your references because we have shown you valid sources (after [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]], not after your criteria). If you think this article must go to deletion discussions, so do it, the result will tell for itself. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 14:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
@David873. If you had looked at the Google link that Badagnani provided above, you would have seen the following:
:''Modernity and Re-Enchantment: Religion in Post-Revolutionary Vietnam
:''By Philip Taylor
:''Published by '''Institute of Southeast Asian Studies''', 2007
Would you insist that [http://muse.jhu.edu/about/publishers/iseas/ Institute of Southeast Asian Studies] is unreliable and a place where a hoax can be published? [[User:Tmct|Tmct]] ([[User talk:Tmct|talk]]) 20:08, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

::[http://rspas.anu.edu.au/people/personal/taylp_ant.php This] is the author. We could contact him and ask for more sources. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Excellent. That way, we can see if it is genuine or if it is just another example of fraud or forgery. Don't get me wrong here; I have literally seen a plethora of fake books and fraudulent references on the internet. One of the worst cases I have seen so far involved a fraudulent "e-book" that was either made up or was a modified version of a publication by a University staff member).
:::Also, I advise all editors who have even the slightest doubt as to the truthfulness of the article in question to actually examine a modern world map and ask themselves the following question: "Given the distance from Vietnam to Korea, does the article sound plausible?" I ask this because a lot of events and historical figures in Vietnamese history are blatant misrepresentations, yet there is often a lack of evidence to offer an alternative view.
:::The reason why I have not cited any sources was because, in my opinion, there are simply no sources whose reliability can be ''ascertained''. Yes, I found forum posts that also shared my views (and even gave alternative views) but they are no suitable for citing either.
:::I also noticed that there has been no input from any editor from WikiProject Korea so far. Perhaps I should inform them about this discussion. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 22:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

::The story about the long-lost Korean who showed up one day is compelling and newsworthy (you read the part where he produced genealogical records "proving" that he descended back to the Vietnamese ancestor?), but I agree we need to verify it. Otherwise it could simply be a falsification used to strengthen relations between the two countries, and picked up on by an unsuspecting academic who wouldn't imagine something like that could be made up. It wouldn't be the first time. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 22:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:::The fact that such claims have been made and accepted by a significant number of people certainly makes the claims notable. My main concern here is whether the claims can be proved beyond reasonable doubt, whether there is no conclusive evidence to prove either way or whether the claims are simply blatant examples of pseudo-history. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
== Earlier visitor to Korea ==
There's an even earlier visitor to Korea, Lý Dương Côn, mentioned at [[Vietnamese people in Korea]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:The sad thing is that there are simply scarce English language literature out there about many historical figures in Vietnamese history; of most concern though is that of the sources that are available, there are virtually none whose reliability can be ascertained. Indeed, there is not even a Wikipedia article on [[Lý Dương Côn]] and the article on the supposed adopter has inadequate references. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
:I must also add that there is clearly a pattern of bias here. Unless we actually see a proper source produced by a reputable organisation with no strong links to regimes known for promoting blatantly false information on a large scale (such as Vietnam and North Korea), I am afraid we will be stuck here. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
::''regimes known for promoting blatantly false information on a large scale'' - one more time, do not use your criteria for wikipedia's articles, there are a lot of forums, blogs where you can talk anything without proper arguments, so unless you have sources claiming this historic event (and other event of Vietnam's history) false, please stop judging and editing here after your "sad thing". Thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 12:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Sorry for telling you this but this is not the first time - nor will it be the last - that someone else has pointed out elsewhere on Wikipedia that communist sources should ''generally'' not be used for they are not reliable as per [[WP:SOURCE]]; they are questionable as they have "a poor reputation for fact-checking" due to the fact that they only serve the communist governments' agendas (this should remind you of the severe consequences that strong government control of the press can have such as censorship?). Clearly, some of the claims made in the article fall under the heading "Exceptional claims" as they are "surprising or apparently important claims not covered by mainstream sources". Please remember that this ''is'' the English Wikipedia after all so our point of reference here will be the mass media as seen by English-speaking communities; Yet, we have seen no more than a couple of sources (at most) that could ''possibly'' be deemed to be borderline and none that are indisputably high quality. For example, we have not seen a single source from a source like CNN or the BBC. I also believe that all Korean sources seen so far are all coming from the communist side. 
:::In any case, I will be waiting for meaningful input from a member of WikiProject Korea. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 13:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
::::So you are still trying to ignore this source?
:''Modernity and Re-Enchantment: Religion in Post-Revolutionary Vietnam
:''By Philip Taylor
:''Published by '''Institute of Southeast Asian Studies''', 2007
::::Moreover, "someone else" is not the final decision of [[WP:SOURCE]] so we will continue using sources from Vietnamese publishers. If you wait for "meaningful input" (means ours is meaningless?) from WikiProject Korea, why don't you go there and request them instead of staying here and showing your argument? [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 13:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::I have already posted a message at WikiProject Korea about this article. I have already commented at [[User:Badagnani]] about a possible irregularity with the source by Philip Taylor (it seems the subject was only mentioned in passing and might have qualifiers such as "Legend has it that..."; the actual paragraphs are needed for verification). Furthermore, three other editors of WikiProject Vietnam have been contacted for comment. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 13:42, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Vietnamese people

2008-08-06T15:05:11Z

Rungbachduong: /* About the languages spoken */

{{Ethnic groups|class=Start}}
{{WikiProject Vietnam|class=start|importance=}}
{{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=Start}}
'''''Note''''': This page contains material merged from the article [[Gin people]]. Please see that article's complete history [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gin_people&action=history here]. See also [[Talk:Gin people]]. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]) 06:47, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

==Ho Chi Minh==
Sorry if you oppose me, but I do not think that Ho Chi Minh would be deserving of being put as an example of a Vietnamese person, even though genetically he was one. [[User:211.30.138.38|211.30.138.38]] 13:19, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:Why not? He's one of the most well-known Vietnamese persons around. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 21:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:Because overseas Vietnamese get agitated staring at a communist leader. [[User:211.30.138.38|211.30.138.38]] 01:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::If you can find someone to replace his pic, be my guest. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 09:20, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for your understanding. I see it's removed already. :) [[User:211.31.58.206|211.31.58.206]] 02:13, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Why someone removed my image set?
Can we ban Minhtung91 for vandalising the page?

==Kinh==
Does anyone know the origin of the ethnonym "Kinh", and why does it appear with the character for "capital" when used in Chinese? [[User:Le Anh-Huy]]
:No idea, but you might be interested in this article about the Gin people in China from the POV of a Chinese ethnographer (translated to Vietnamese): [http://www.talawas.org/talaDB/showFile.php?res=5651&rb=0302]. Another article in a Vietnamese newspaper regarding the minority group: [http://www.tuoitre.com.vn/Tianyon/Index.aspx?ArticleID=88681&ChannelID=89]. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 23:59, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Here's another "ethnography" of ethnic Vietnamese in China. There is something quite ethnocentric about this Beijing-controlled website, as Russians and Koreans are referred to by their English ethnonyms, but the Viets are just called "Jing"! http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/EthnicGroups/136919.htm
[[User:Le Anh-Huy|Le Anh-Huy]] 02:20, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Speculated Answer: Well, I heard this and I can't quite back it up, but it means the metropolitans, Kinh/Jing though means capital can also mean metropolitan. It's meaning maybe lost throughout the years, but could reflect that the modern Vietnamese ethnic group is neither the Lac or the other ethnic groups stated in the Legend of Lac Long Quan. Rather a mixed group of "metropolitans." ~ Xiaohuang (Thieu Hoang)

I am preapring a genetic study to answer your questions. Manything needs to be done now. My hypothesis is that Kinh people originating from southeast Asia and influenced by migration from southern China people. (Toiyeuvietnam). I inserted some new clues from genetic studies by Chinese scholars published in some famous articles (ex. American J Hum Genet, Science..). But my change in "Vietnamese people" topic is rejected due to unconstructive conclusion. This decision that is very quickly shows that the editor did not read these studies. It is not good way.

==Vietnamese emigration after the Vietnam War==

Large scale emigration did not occur immediately after the Vietnam War, despite the imagery of boat people fleeing on American helicopters and aircraft carriers. It was later around 1978 onwards did Chinese-Vietnamese flee in greater numbers, when their economic interests in the south were threatened by nationalisation.
:The majority of boat people were Vietnamese, not Chinese. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 05:30, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
::On the other hand, copious [[Hoa]] escaped with the [[Viet]] because of the Communists' harrasment.

==Migration to the south after the Geneva Accords 1954==
This page said that there were 2 million northern Vietnamese who migrated south after 1954. The following page, however, states that there were around 1 million people migrating from the North to the South during two years after the Geneva Accords:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conference_(1954)

In fact, the number are under 1 million. I have changed the information in this page accordingly.

==Merge from [[Gin people]]==

I don't see the purpose of having a separate article about the Gin, as if they were a different ethnic group. Hypothetically, it would be interesting to have an article about specifically about ethnic Vietnamese people in China, but we don't have anything like enough material for that yet. And anyway, "Gin" is just a different ''spelling'' of "Kinh", which is a synonym for "ethnic Vietnamese"; "Jing" is simply the Chinese pronunciation of that word. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]) 01:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

:: Should [[Hoa]] merge with [[Chinese]]? [[User:203.218.71.17|203.218.71.17]] 17:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
:: No, Hoa live in Vietnam. Likewise, Gin live in China.

==Merger==
Technically, merging Gin people with Vietnamese people would be like merging African-American with Black people. So we should do the same with that article.[[User:1028|1028]] 00:49, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

:Well, no, if we make a mistake on this article, we certainly should not copy the same mistake on some other article to make up for it. More to the point, there are at least two important differences between this situation and the [[Black (people)]]-[[African American]] situation. First, the word "Gin" does not mean "Vietnamese Chinese people"; it just means "ethnic Vietnamese"; "Vietnamese Chinese would be something like 京族中国人 (''Jingzu Zhongguoren''—I don't know how to say it in Vietnamese). Second, there is already a well-written article about African-Americans, whereas there is not much of an article at [[Gin people]]. Furthermore, African-Americans have a culture distinct from people in African (they generally speak different languages, etc.), and I'm not sure that the Chinese Gins are that different from the Vietnamese Kinh. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]) 01:23, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
::I think they're different enough from other Vietnamese to have their own article. Perhaps rename the [[Gin people]] page to [[Gin people of China]]? [[User:DHN|DHN]] 01:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

:::That would be fine if we had a significant article about them. I've been one of the editors of [[Korean Chinese]]. However, in fact, we have about one short paragraph to say about the Gins of China, so I don't think that warrants a separate article as it stands. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]) 01:34, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

== Seperate section for Myths and Facts ==

According to legend, the first Vietnamese descended from the dragon lord Lạc Long Quân and a heavenly spirit Âu Cơ. They marrhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_peopleied and had one hundred eggs, from which hatched one hundred children. Their eldest son Hùng Vương ruled as the first Vietnamese king. The predecessors of the Vietnamese people emigrated from present southern China to the Red River delta and mixed with the indigenous population.

In 258 BC, An Dương Vương founded the kingdom of Âu Lạc in what is now northern Vietnam. In 208 BC, Chao Tuo (known as Triệu Đà in Vietnamese), a former Qin Dynasty general from China, allied with the leaders of the Yue peoples in modern-day Guangdong and declared himself King of Southern Yue. He defeated An Dương Vương and then combined Âu Lạc with territories in southern China and named his kingdom Nam Việt, or Southern Yue (南越). (Nam means south). Việt is cognate to yuet 越, which is the pronunciation of Yue in ancient Chinese and some modern southern Chinese dialects. The term was used for various peoples in the region south of China, including the regions of northern Vietnam.

:Do you think we should add a new section for facts and myth, althought the origins of vietnamese are shrouded in gray clouds, their language and pre-han culture does provide and in site. I notice that [[Vietnamese|vietnamese language]] belongs in the [[Mon-Khmer]] languages, and many vietnamese customs are suprisingly simmiliar to those of other mon-khmers, such as chewing bewtel nuts and blackening teeths. Even thought the vietnames today are wholly resemble chinese, the muongs whom claim closely related to the [[vietnamese|vietnamese people]] resemble [[Khmer people|khmer]] and other mon-khmer people, do you think they are related? They share simmilarities like the tendency to be around rivers. And for the Bai Yue part, doesn't [[Bai Yue]] include hundreds of groups of people? And if the Kinh adopted an MK language, that would be kind of strange seeing as Kinhs were basically in the influence of those who spoke [[Sino-tibetan]] and most MK speakers were hill tribes? --[[user:leaki]]

::They are Mon-Khmers who were Sinisized, not the other way around. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 19:49, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Thats what I mention, I basically said that its quite ludacris to say vietnamese were originally not mon-khmer, but I'm saying should we add a diffrent section on factual origins and include information on possible relations to other mon-khmer. --[[user:leaki|leaki]]
::::That's probably a good idea, if you can find some sources on that. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 20:53, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

::For the last several decades, they've been using the term [[Viet-Muong]] as exclusive to the Viets and the Muong people, to the exclusion of the so-called Mon Khmer. But the linguist Maspero in 1912 and again in 1952 even suggested the Viets (and by extension, the Muongs) are not Mon-Khmer, but rather a branch of the Thai/Dai peoples, in itself a branch of the Sino-Tibetan family. Read this article:
http://www.vny2k.com/vny2k/SiniticVietnamese5.htm
::That article have its flaws, it stated that korean was influence by chinese but did not gain tones is wrong, evident by its hangul-based writing system, korean once had tones. As for Japanese tones, around a good 30% percent is accented. Dai is no longer considered sino-tibetan.

I agree that we should clearly split myth and historical facts. [[User:Tridungvo|Tridungvo]] 15:26, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

==Response to Leaki==
Uhh, regardless of those elements you listed that are practiced amongst Vietnamese (betel nut chewing, lacquering of teeth), they’re not exclusive to Mon-Khmer speaking people but also practiced by Tai-Kadai (among others) people.

No matter where Vietnamese is classified language-wise, that does not necessarily prove that they’re close genetically to a specific group in that language family. Language and genetics are not the same thing - and I know now you’re gonna say that the only other possibility is that Vietnamese adopted Mon-Khmer language, but that’s not what I’m saying either! In any case, even though Vietnamese is language wise Mon-Khmer, it’s also obvious that Vietnamese shares 10 percent basic vocabulary with Tai-Kadai languages and similar grammar, not to mention pre-sinitic influenced Vietnamese also used stilt houses like Tai-Kadai people, among other examples. Vietnamese are most likely a mixture of mon-khmer and tai-kadai peoples, then you have to factor in the 1,000 year Chinese annexation/domination (in which massive immigration of Chinese is ruled out by scholars, but there is proof of some immigrations of Chinese throughout [read “The Birth of Vietnam” by Keith Taylor]).
Even language and mixing aside, Vietnamese people know their history and origins and know for a fact that the cradle of Vietnamese civilization is based in North Vietnam. People are affected not just by genetics but also by environment, North Vietnam is strikingly different from many other areas in Southeast Asia in climate, with its four seasons and it actually gets cold!
Making a claim for possibility of relation because of language at one point is ok, but you have to factor in a billion other factors as well.

By the way, an interesting tidbit=Japanese people - being a mix of yayoi and Jomon, also practice what is often deemed as indigenous southeast asian practices: including practice of animism and dyeing teeth black. [[User:Mojojojoinhawaii|Mojojojoinhawaii]] 04:05, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

==__==
I must say that although the Vietnamese resemble the southern Chinese in cultural traditions, habits, and finally in their physical typology, i find the Southern Chinese often even more southeast Asian then the Vietnamese themselves in several ways. This may be some kind of far-fetched speculation, but I suspect the Vietnamese (in least in some of their gene pools) have much more "northern" origins. Perhaps the Mongols or others had some affect centuries ago? My own family is of Vietnamese origin, and many of my relatives have a very Central Asian, Japanese, and even Turkic look, and so they look a bit different from most of their other brethren, not to mention other southeast Asians. Until several years ago, I always thought nothing of this, and thought myself quite an "average" Asian-Canadian, until my late teen years when other Asians always had no idea where I was from, not to mention non-Asians. I am of Vietnamese origin myself on both sides, but people always think I look Mongolian, Japanese or Turkic; and finally, recently I have met other people of Vietnamese origin who look just like myself, and not like the majority or Vietnamese around me. ie. some Vietnamese guys (esp. in my family) have much more facial or body hair than most others, yet are entirely Vietnamese).

is their any historical evidence or research of Vietnamese having Altaic or otherwise "non-native" (ie. to the south China-Indochina basin) origins in their gene pool? This might have drastically affected the actual origins of the Vietnamese people. [[User:Le Anh-Huy|Le Anh-Huy]] 07:14, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
That is a reasonable speculation. Since it is noticeable that Vietnamese people do not have one "homogenous" feature.

:: In human genetics there is a term used called 'The Milkman Effect'. You have European traits because somewhere you had a (white) European ancestor(s), which is not documented in your family history for various reasons including taboo. The same can be said of some Filipinos. Many Chinese from Macau have very obvious Portuguese traits for the same reason. 13 Sep 06.

::: You obviously do not know many Southern Chinese. Not even a typical Southern Chinese resemble a typical Vietnamese, although they are from the same geographic area. They are not typologically nor morphologically alike, and could be easily distinguished. Of course there are Vietnamese who are classed as ethnic Chinese, but many of these are genetically less than 50% Chinese, and in fact predominantly Vietnamese genetically, and morphologically resembling the Vietnamese. The Chinese have a custom of accepting anyone who has a Chinese ancestor as Chinese even though the genetic make-up of the person is heavily diluted from that of his/her Chinese ancestor. 13 Sep 06.

:Some Vietnamese customs that are more Southeast Asian than Chinese: [[fish sauce]], [[betel]] chewing, teeth blackening, [http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0520074173&id=rCl_02LnNVIC&pg=PA1&lpg=PR7&dq=Weller+Taylor%27s+The+Birth+of+Vietnam&sig=SbVYCsGTGxIS2ErKdD-a4zl5Xa0 origin myths], [http://www.ln.edu.hk/eng/staff/eoyang/icla/Karin%20Schmidt.doc fairy tales]. The [[Fourth Chinese domination (History of Vietnam)|Fourth Chinese domination of Vietnam]] did much to Sinicize the country in 20 short years. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 08:00, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Quoted from Talk:Vietnamese people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

a.) DHN responding to user:leaki, on the origin of the Vietnamese people:
They are Mon-Khmers who were Sinisized, not the other way around. DHN 19:49, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

b.) DHN responding to Le Anh-Huy's message of 07:14, 26 August 2006 (UTC), despite Le Anh-Huy clearly stating "I am of Vietnamese origin myself on both sides":
...You have European traits because somewhere you had a (white) European ancestor(s), which is not documented in your family history for various reasons including taboo... 13 Sep 06.

c.) DHN's "scientific" claim of genetic make-up for Vietnamese of Chinese origin:
Of course there are Vietnamese who are classed as ethnic Chinese, but many of these are genetically less than 50% Chinese, and in fact predominantly Vietnamese genetically, and morphologically resembling the Vietnamese. The Chinese have a custom of accepting anyone who has a Chinese ancestor as Chinese even though the genetic make-up of the person is heavily diluted from that of his/her Chinese ancestor. 13 Sep 06.

Sirs,

Who is this DHN? I found his/her comments very disturbing. Bad English to start with (Cf. Quote a.) above). What rights to make such huge & offending statements on the world stage? They are far from accurate, to say the very least.

Yours sincerely,
T.Vd./
:DHN is the idiot who originally wrote this article. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 01:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I speculate that Vietnamese are mixture of the north (chinese) with the indigenous populations through out time, leaving much of the population looking somewhere on the spectrum of looking very east asian to looking very austronesasian. After all, there were many Chinese who moved down to Vietnam during the successive dynasties, who though were 100% Han in genetics identified with Vietnam as it was their home province, it might also make sense that chinese military men, stationed south without their women, found indigenous partners, leaving people of highly mixed sino-vietnamese stock. likewise, there are other probably those that live outside the cities, where the Hans used to congregate in ancient times, having less exposure to han genes also leaving us with those who look more "indigenous." ~ Xiaohuang (Thieu Hoang)

==Should Hoa = Chinese? Gin people and Vietnamese should be separeated!==
:Yes, "Hoa" in Vietnamese language means not only the ethnic Chinese living in Vietnam, but also the ethnic Chinese living in other countries, for example in the USA, in France, in Thailand, in Malaysia, in Indonesia, in Cambodia, etc. Although less often, but this word is also used to refer to the Chinese living in China. [[User:Tryst Nguyen|Tryst Nguyen]]

=='''Cosmonaut, not Astronaut!'''==
Instead of [[Eugene Trinh]], why not have a picture of [[Pham Tuan]]? '''At least, he was the first Vietnamese cosmonaut, as well as the first Asian in space'''. Some Vietnamese Americans are so unwilling to recognize any progress that goes on "back home", preferring to only focus on personal achievements of Vietnamese-Americans who, are primarily doing the United States of America a favour, not Vietnam. Besides, Pham Tuan looks better, and will give the "ethnic photos" better exposure to Viets. [[User:Le Anh-Huy|Le Anh-Huy]] 05:48, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
:I have no objections to using these pics, but they keep getting deleted. I originally used [[Ho Chi Minh]], the girl, [[Phan Van Khai]], and [[Tran Duc Luong]], based solely on how well-known they are (plus the girl for balance). I have serious doubts as to whether [[Eugene Trinh]] is really Vietnamese. I really don't care too much whether they bring "pride" or "shame" to the people they represent. (Being chosen by the Soviets to show off how much better their socialist system are compared to the capitalist system isn't much to be proud of either) [[User:DHN|DHN]] 06:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

:Looking happy, confident and cultured, not to mention beautiful and enviable (And no makeup, very genuine), the girl in her Ao Dai (Ow Yai), the cultural symbol of Vietnam: Most beautiful image of Vietnam.
:Astronaut or Cosmonaut?: The 1st Asian in space was a Vietnamese citizen in space (not an American citizen). T.Vd./

Exactly! [[User:Le Anh-Huy|Le Anh-Huy]] 22:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

But, there are speculations that that cosmonaut did nothing but "ride along". :D I think it's safer to use Eugene Trinh. He is Vietnamese, definitely. (Yes, us overseas Vietnamese are being arrogant, but we have the right to, don't we?) [[User:220.239.231.118|220.239.231.118]] 11:46, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

==related to southern chinese==
i changed 'possibly related to southern chinese' to related to southern chinese. genetics study have shown that the vietnamese kinh are indeed closely related to them. we are genetically closer to them than the other peoples of southeast asia such as the thais, though we are somewhat closely related to the people of laos. the computer dictionary microsoft bookshelf 2000, also states that we are related to the southern chinese.

Possibly? Anyway, this is off-topic, but Vietnamese ''is not'' Chinese, right? People I know keep on saying that the Vietnamese people were from China (geographically originating from a part of today's China, yes, but I mean CHINA as in CHINA), which is stupid, in my opinion. [[User:220.239.231.118|220.239.231.118]] 11:49, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

==Also see: [[Yue (state)]], [[King Gou Jian of Yue]]==
What is the reason for including "Yue (state)" and "King Gou Jian of Yue" under "Also see"? Both these "Yue" refer to what is now [[Jiangsu]] and [[Zhejiang]] provinces in China and not are related to Vietnam. [[User:LDHan|LDHan]] 11:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
:This user has been pushing this hogwash in the Chinese and Vietnamese Wikipedias. According to him, the Vietnamese state was a successor to the [[State of Yue]] and "King Gou Jian of Yue" was their ancestor. He's been banned in the Vietnamese Wikipedia but keeps coming back. He keeps writing abusive messages in Chinese (which thankfully few in the Vietnamese Wikipedia can understand). [[User:DHN|DHN]] 15:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
::Oh I see, thanks. [[User:LDHan|LDHan]] 16:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

== "related groups" info removed from infobox ==

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{tl|Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the '''[[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#.22related groups.22 info removed from infobox|Ethnic groups talk page]]'''. [[User:Ling.Nut|Ling.Nut]] 23:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

==Photo==
What's this? Ho Chi Minh got removed whereas some strange guy with American flag on one arm and another in the background is put on as an example of a Vietnamese? This is serious POV, especially when this is an article about Vietnamese in general, not Vietnamese American. I will remove it if no one can give me a satisfying explanation.[[User:Hawkie|Hawkie]] 14:10, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

:Have to agree with you. [[User:LDHan|LDHan]] 14:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

::I have removed it for its disgusting impression, and I'm thinking of some other image to fill in its place. There're still many Vietnamese great names which are also well-known outside Vietnam. Or maybe we can find an image of male Vietnamese since I can see an image of female Vietnamese in traditional dress already.[[User:Hawkie|Hawkie]] 15:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

==Why are there so many Chinese references in this article? ==
First, there is no need to go into detail about Vietnamese people in specific a country, China in this case. There is no discussion of Vietnamese people in Thailand or South Korea and what they are labeled there because it is not needed. The Diaspora section covers all that is needed about Vietnamese people living abroad. Besides there are other Wikipedia articles that discuss Vietnamese people living outside of Vietnam or in a specific country (Vietnamese Canadians, Vietnamese Australians, etc). Remember this article is about the Kinh ethnic group not about Vietnamese living abroad.

Second, why are so many translations of Vietnamese words to their Mandarin equivalent? Remember this is a Vietnamese article not a Chinese one. Do you see Vietnamese translations of Chinese names and places in Chinese articles? The answer is no because Vietnamese translations are unnecessary in Chinese articles just like Chinese translations in Vietnamese ones.

I believe this article should be edited to omit all the Chinese references, which are unnecessary to begin with. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/134.139.52.17|134.139.52.17]] ([[User talk:134.139.52.17|talk]]) 15:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC) 

If nobody responses in a week I will go ahead make the edits myself —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/134.139.52.17|134.139.52.17]] ([[User talk:134.139.52.17|talk]]) 15:14, 23 October 2007 (UTC) 
: Actually, had you actually checked and been able to read Chinese, you would know that many Chinese pages about anything Vietnamese will also feature Vietnamese pronunciations and spellings, apart from Putonghua spellings. [[User:Le Anh-Huy|Le Anh-Huy]] 05:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
::As you stated, those Chinese pages dealing with Vietnamese issues have Vietnamese pronunciations and spellings because it is apt. Translating Vietnamese names, places, etc. into Chinese on a Vietnamese page is not appropriate.[[User:WanderDuck|WanderDuck]] ([[User talk:WanderDuck|talk]]) 00:56, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

:Vietnamese was originally written in Chinese, so the Chinese characters are appropriate for historical terms. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 15:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Vietnamese may have been originally written in Chinese, but it is not really pervalent in today's time. Hardly any Vietnameses are taught to read or write in Chinese script so it is pretty much useless if they can't understand it.

So is it okay to delete this passage? "In the People's Republic of China, they are among the recognized minority groups based especially in or around Guangxi Province and are known in Mandarin Chinese through their derivative name Jing/Gin (京) or "Jingzu"/"Ginzu" (京族)."
As I have stated this article should concentrate about the Kinh ethnic group. There is no need to go to mention what Vietnamese are labeled outside of their country. There is no metion of what Vietnamese are called in other countries like Laos or Thailand because it is unnecessary just like this passage. It more appropriate in the "Vietnamese people in China" article.
:I don't see a reason to delete it. It appropriately shows that there are Vietnamese people outside of Vietnam. In Laos or Thailand I'm not sure if they're an officially recognized ethnic group, but they are in China. The same thing about the Chinese characters can be said of the Vietnamese text in this article, since English speakers (the primary audience of this article) won't be able to read it either. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 15:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
::There's a specific reason only the [[Gin people|Jing]] (ethnic Vietnamese in China) are mentioned in this article as opposed to ethnic Vietnamese enclaves elsewhere. I think the article makes reference specifically to the Vietnamese who have been living in the southern areas of China for centuries, therefore they are a not only an established but historical ethnic group in those southernmost regions of China. If you look at Vietnamese origin theories, one states that Vietnamese originate mainly from Northern Vietnam but also partially from Southern China - one common misconception is that the current Jing (ethnic Vietnamese) living in some southernmost areas of China are indigenous when they are NOT - they just immigrated to those areas centuries ago, however it is notable because some majorly accepted theories are that one of the places of origin of Vietnamese people are in certain southernmost parts of China and that there is a group of Vietnamese living there now (the Jing who migrated there centuries ago).[[User:165.196.104.76|165.196.104.76]] 19:06, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
:::I believe there is a reason to delete the disputed passage, as I mentioned earlier it is not appropriate as this is a Vietnamese ethnic article not Vietnamese in China article. It starts out about discussing about Kinh then all of a sudden it talks about what Vietnamese people are called in China . . . why? How does that make scene? And Vietnamese people are a recognized ethnic group in Thailand, Germany, Norway, etc. but it is not mentioned here because it is not needed, same with China. And if it does get mentioned it should be brief in the diaspora section or in another Wikipedia article.
::::“The same thing about the Chinese characters can be said of the Vietnamese text in this article, since English speakers (the primary audience of this article) won't be able to read it either. DHN 15:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)” -- As I stated earlier, this article is a Vietnamese article in an English language site so Vietnamese script is necessary while the Mandarin script are out of place and unnecessary. By using your argument, it be okay to use Vietnamese script in a Chinese article since the English speaking audience is unable to understand it just like the Chinese script.
:::::It would have been appropriate if the Chinese language was written with Vietnamese script sometime in the past. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 16:29, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
::::::And yet Chinese script is no longer taught to Vietnamese in today's time, making the Chinese script pretty much useless. Since you argue that Chinese script should remain because it was used in the past, than would it be right to start using Chinese script in Korean and Japanese articles? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/134.139.52.17|134.139.52.17]] ([[User talk:134.139.52.17|talk]]) 16:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC) 

: Yet again, an erroneous assumption. Had you even been able to read Chinese text, you would know that many Korean and Japanese pages do give original Chinese text as a source of context for certain topics or words. Please refrain from discussion if you do not even know what you are talking about...and have the decency to sign in if you think you are up to editing. I propose that this page should bar those who do not sign in from "editing". [[User:Le Anh-Huy|Le Anh-Huy]] 05:38, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
:: I may not know much on this topic but I do know Korean and Japanese script use some loan characters from Chinese script and perhaps that is why there is Chinese script on Japanese and Korean pages. As you pointed out the use of Chinese script in Japanese and Korean pages are limited, being reserved for "certain topics or words" as opposed to how this page use to be with Chinese equivalents for all Vietnamese names, places, etc. However this is all made irrelevant since Vietnamese script is based on Latin script.[[User:WanderDuck|WanderDuck]] ([[User talk:WanderDuck|talk]]) 00:56, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

:::::::I finally gotten a username, I am the same person who started this discussion. All right if nobody responses by November 14, 2007 I'm going to edit the page. I thoroughly proven my point on this subject matter and if you want to make your own edits you have to discuss it first. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:WanderDuck|WanderDuck]] ([[User talk:WanderDuck|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/WanderDuck|contribs]]) 17:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC) 
::::::::Perhaps it would be a better idea to relegate the discussion of the Vietnamese in China to the body instead of mentioning it in the head or removing it altogether. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 17:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::I think its should be removed, as Tryst Nguyen pointed out earlier in his own discussion to whom nobody replied, the Chinese in Vietnam are called Hoa and there has been Hoa communities for centuries in Vietnam. Its not stated in the Han article because that deals with the Han ethnic group not Hans living aboard.- Wanderduck

==This article should be expanded==
Other subselections this article should include is culture, food, attire, etc. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/134.139.22.23|134.139.22.23]] ([[User talk:134.139.22.23|talk]]) 15:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC) 
:You're welcome to make those additions. [[User:DHN|DHN]] 20:34, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

== Genetic Origin of the Vietnamese People ==

I think a section on the genetic origin of the Vietnamese people should be added. It is modernly accepted among geneticist that the Vietnamese people have a dual genetic origin from the Chinese and the Thai, with certain Vietnamese more closely related to the Chinese and others more closely related to the Thai.

For example here: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1046/j.1365-2370.1999.00184.x?cookieSet=1

I think this section is important because while geographic, linguistic and cultural characteristics can be masked and changed depending on how and where a person is raised up, nobody can hide from their genetic code as it will always pinpoint exactly who they are, and where they come from. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Linerqi|Linerqi]] ([[User talk:Linerqi|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Linerqi|contribs]]) 05:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC) 

Also to add, Vietnamese people are genetically grouped with Miao, Southern Han (Southern Chinese), Buyi and Thais, implying that they are closely related.

For example here: http://www.wufi.org.tw/taiwan/lml2e.jpg

[[User:Linerqi|Linerqi]] ([[User talk:Linerqi|talk]]) 05:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

== "Bashi Islam" in the religions box ==

What is this? Is there a Vietnamese term? I can find absolutely no sources about this at all: {{find|Bashi Islam}}. [[User:CaliforniaAliBaba|cab]] ([[User talk:CaliforniaAliBaba|talk]]) 03:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

It should be called "Bani" Islam, a form of Islam that was syncretized into Malay culture...but the internationalists among the Cham and Malay Muslim community are trying to get rid of it, for a more puritan form of Islam. [[User:Le Anh-Huy|Le Anh-Huy]] ([[User talk:Le Anh-Huy|talk]]) 11:10, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

:Better ask [[User:Le Anh-Huy]], since he probably added it. If he doesn't provide any information, then I say we delete it. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 03:39, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

== Wrong Redirection ==
Why does the entry 'Viet' redirect to this article? The Vietnamese ethnicity is part of a much larger grouping of Viet peoples (just as the Turkish ethnic group is part of a much larger grouping of Turkic peoples). A disambiguation page needs to be provided to address this. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/122.105.145.206|122.105.145.206]] ([[User talk:122.105.145.206|talk]]) 02:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC) 
:Can you name another "Viet" ethnic group? Note "Viet" is only used in Vietnamese to refer to the Vietnamese people. If you're thinking of [[Yue peoples]], they're called something else. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 21:53, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Please note that the idea that 'Viet' only refers to the Vietnamese people is a misnormer (and possibly racist too). Cantonese, Hokkien and many other ethnic groups that originate in South East Asia are also Viet peoples. It must also be noted that the ancestors of ALL these peoples were NOT related to the Han people in any way.

By the way, what is this 'something else' called? Is it a derogatory term that just promotes a 'us and them' attitude? —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/122.105.150.242|122.105.150.242]] ([[User talk:122.105.150.242|talk]]) 23:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 
:The Yue peoples are Baiyue or Bach Viet. The only common thing about them is that they're called Yue by the Han. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 00:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

If 'Viet' really is used exclusively in the Vietnamese language to refer to ethnic Vietnamese, then I regret to say that I find such usage extremely offensive. As far as I am aware, 'Viet' as used in the English language refers to no only ethnic Vietnamese but also many other non-Vietnamese 'Viet' peoples (such as the Cantonese peoples). The bottomline: a disambiguation page needs to be provided to distinguish between the various meanings that 'Viet' might be construed to be. As the page stands, if one were looking for information on the various Viet peoples, they would be sent straight to this page without any opportunity to go to the correct article beforehand. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/122.105.148.100|122.105.148.100]] ([[User talk:122.105.148.100|talk]]) 01:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC) 
:I don't think the Cantonese call themselves Viet. They'd call themselves Yuet or something similar. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 01:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
::The fact that most, if not all, Cantonese peoples do not call themselves 'Viet' is of no consequence. The same applies for all other non-Vietnamese Viet peoples. The issue here is recognising the fact that the word 'Viet', as applied in the ''English'' language, ordinarily does NOT mean Vietnamese. Rather the Vietnamese people are just one example of a Viet ethnic group. So we really do need a disambiguation page for 'Viet'.
PS: It is clear that an 'us and them' attitude between the Vietnamese and other Viet peoples is well and truely alive here. It would appear that many people here do not really know much about history or are seeking to promote biased views.
[[Special:Contributions/122.105.148.100|122.105.148.100]] ([[User talk:122.105.148.100|talk]]) 03:49, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
:::I would agree that [[:vi:Việt|Việt]] needs to be a disambiguation page in the Vietnamese Wikipedia, which it is, but not in the English Wikipedia. In English, the term is clearly derived from Vietnamese and is only used to refer to the Vietnamese in English and need not be disambiguated. Here's an analogy for you: [[Japanese yen]], [[South Korean won]], and [[Chinese yuan]] are all derived from the same character, but when you speak of "yen", "won", and "yuan", you're implicitly referring to different things, and they don't need disambiguation. The term "[[Yue (people)|Yue]]", on the other hand, would be the appropriate place to talk about the different groups. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 05:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

::::So is there a reliable source that states that 'Viet', as used in the English language, refers to the Vietnamese people only? Some English language history books seem to use 'Viet' in a much broader sense. Furthermore, I have never seen any history book about Vietnam that refers to the ancient state of Nam Viet (which contained many non-Vietnamese Viet peoples as well as the 'native' Vietnamese people) as 'Nanyue'. —Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/122.105.145.58|122.105.145.58]] ([[User talk:122.105.145.58|talk]]) 10:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC) 

The redirect in question has been converted into a disambiguation page. Hopefully, this will reduce confusion. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 08:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

==Source and citation==
The third paragraph in the opening section contains several statements concerning Vietnamese genetics supported by two separate sources. The first source is hosted by the [[National Center for Biotechnology Information]] (NCBI), which is a perfectly acceptable source for this type of study. However, the user who added this information probably did not reflect the whole study, the user also changed (''deliberately''?) and perhaps manipulated the content a bit; in the NCBI research, it states [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=10583463&cmd=showdetailview]:

{{cquote|The comparison of the Vietnamese with other East Asian populations showed a close genetic relationship of the population under investigation with other Orientals. However, the Vietnamese population can be differentiated by the significantly higher frequency of the enzyme morph HincII-5 and by seven new markers. These results strongly support the hypothesis of a dual ethnic origin of the Vietnamese population from the Chinese and Thai-Indonesian populations based on HLA markers and linguistic evidence.}}

However, the information on this Wikipedia article which cited this reference is written as:

{{cquote|Genetic studies in the past decade have shown that the Vietnamese population exhibits genetic markers that are closely related and/or identical to those of Southern Chinese populations, with the exception of seven unique markers. These results, along with remnants of Thai enzyme morphs, indicate a dual ethnic origin of the Vietnamese population from Chinese and Thai populations.}}

In order to reflect the complexity of human genetics, we need to approach the information in a scentific perspective, rather than making it seem like ethnic-oriented (i.e. stating Vietnamese are closer to which ethnic group rather than...).

However, the second source (a map) [http://www.wufi.org.tw/taiwan/lml2e.jpg], unlike the first source which is hosted by a reputed research center that specializes on fields such as molecular biology, microbiology and biochemistry, is of unknown orgin and is hosted by the website called "wufi.org", which is a political organization titled "World United Formosans For Independence" ([[WUFI]]). I'm afraid it automatically advertizes a politically-oriented sentiment in its contents. Evenmore so, this reference was only a graph depicting genetic clusters, it did not denote such statements as it was written on this article. So by puting forth statements simply based on personal observation of the graph is not acceptable.--[[User:DerechoReguerraz|DerechoReguerraz]] ([[User talk:DerechoReguerraz|talk]]) 06:21, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
:For those interested, here is where the graph originally came from.[http://www.wufi.org.tw/eng/linmalie.htm]. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 03:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

On Page 421 of the article, the author asserts that when he/she refers to Orientals, he/she is predominantly talking about Chinese populations. The word Southern was added because the cross-referenced studies (Blanc et al ., 1983 and Johnson et al ., 1983) took samples predominantly from the Canton province. The author makes the conclusion that the genetic markers are closely related and/or identical in Table 4 of the same page. If you read his discussion, he talks about all of the related genetic markers, and then concludes that with this (in the very last sentence), that the Vietnamese population came from Chinese/Thai populations.

The article can be accessed on the same page with a subscription to the service or with access through a higher education system (Students, Faculty, Post-Doctorate Researchers of most mid to upper-tier Universities). [[User:Linerqi|Linerqi]] ([[User talk:Linerqi|talk]]) 01:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

A proper source has also been added for the second claim. The paper clearly states the genetic cluster on page 194 (once again, you will need either a subscription or be affiliated with a high quality University/Research Center to see the paper). [[User:Linerqi|Linerqi]] ([[User talk:Linerqi|talk]]) 01:23, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
:Why did the user remove (or conceal) part of the statement that was cited using the first source from NCBI? I find it to be extremely puzzling.

:It should also be clarified that the cited sources (and the new one), though both hosted by NCBI ([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=10583463&cmd=showdetailview "1"] and [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11285126?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum "2"]), are articles published by two different hospitals (one in France, one in Taiwan). They are not original contents by NCBI, but articles simply hosted by this link. The second article ([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11285126?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum "2"]) in particular is the same article that was hosted by the political site [[WUFI]].org ([http://www.wufi.org.tw/eng/linmalie.htm]), as they are both the exact same article by M. Lin and various authors of the [[Mackay Memorial Hospital]] in [[Taiwan]].--[[User:DerechoReguerraz|DerechoReguerraz]] ([[User talk:DerechoReguerraz|talk]]) 06:33, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

==About the languages spoken==
Why are Cantonese and Teo Chew not listed? Many ethnic Vietnamese around the world are fluent in speaking at least one of these languages in addition to Vietnamese. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 03:44, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

By the way, there ought to be a brief mention of the [[Hoa]] people as they are really ethnically Vietnamese and there are no real differences between 'native' Vietnamese and [[Hoa]] people. After all, the Cantonese people are closely related to the Vietnamese people in a genetic, ethnic and cultural sense, a closeness that can only be intensified by the very high rate of 'intermarriage' between the 'Hoa' people and 'native' Vietnamese. Please do not say that Hoa people are ethnically Chinese; this is just a political trick designed to promote hatred based on non-existent ethnic differences. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 04:02, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
:Please cite a [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|credible source]] that claims that Hoa people are ethnically Vietnamese. The view that they are ethically different is at least supported by a government. You claim that the other side is using political tricks to stir hatred - at least back up your claim. [[User:DHN|DHN]] ([[User talk:DHN|talk]]) 07:45, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
::The fact that there is a very high rate of intermarriage between "Hoa" people and non-Hoa ethnic Vietnamese and that even Cantonese people living in Canton are closely related to ethnic Vietnamese ought to say something about the relations between the Hoa people and (other?) ethnic Vietnamese; after all, the Vietnamese ethnic identity is really a multicultural one! Many ancient ancestors of modern ethnic Vietnamese did in fact come from modern-day southern China (which of course was not part of China in ancient times), which is also the homeland of modern-day Cantonese people. I think that it is already widely accepted that many people who consider themselves to be ethnic Vietnamese only would be considered "Hoa" by the Vietnamese government simply on the basis of their ''recent'' ancestry (i.e. their lineage tracing back to no more than a few hundred years). As for the claims that there is some kind of political trick going on, that was because I noticed that CCP propaganda has been cropping up across a number of Wikipedia pages relating to the [[Hoa]] ethnicity. The fact that the CCP's reporting on the supposed persecution of [[Hoa]] people has not been backed up by a reliable source speaks for itself (i.e. passes [[WP:DUCK]]) given that most of Mainland China's populace certainly do '''not''' (repeat not) regard [[Hoa]] poeple as ethnically Chinese!
::Also, it is true that people can call themselves whatever they want in a census. However, this alone will not change the fact that [[Hoa]] people are seen as ethnic Vietnamese and not ethnic Chinese by the ''wider community'' (and that is true in not only the US, but just about everywhere in the developed world). [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:47, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Show us your references, that's all we need. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 15:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Bạch Đằng (938)

2008-08-06T15:02:40Z

Rungbachduong: remove template, discussed

At the '''Battle of Bạch Đằng River in 938''' the [[Vietnam]]ese forces, led by [[Ngo Quyen]], defeated the [[China|Chinese]] invaders and put an end to Chinese imperial domination of the Vietnamese.

In 937, [[Liu Yan (Southern Han)|Liu Yan]], the [[Southern Han]] ruler, jumped at the chance to intervene in Vietnam again after the death of the Vietnamese patriot [[Dương Đình Nghệ]]. He had been foiled by Dinh Nghe in 931, but now that Dinh Nghe was dead, he thought the time was ripe for another try. He placed his own son, [[Liu Hung-ts'ao]] ([[wikt:劉|劉]][[wikt:弘|弘]][[wikt:操|操]]; Vietnamese: Lưu Hoằng Tháo), in command of the expedition, naming him "Peaceful Sea Military Governor" and "King of [[Giao]]." He hastily assembled an army at Sea Gate, where he personally took charge of the reserve force. He ordered Hung-ts'ao to embark the army and sail to Giao.

By the time Liu Hung-ts'ao arrived in Vietnamese waters with the Southern Han expedition, Hung-ts'ao's plan was to ascend the [[Bach Dang River|Bạch Đằng River]] ([[wikt:白|白]][[wikt:藤|藤]][[wikt:江|江]]) and to place his army in the heart of Giao before disembarking; the Bạch Đằng was the major [[Maritime geography|riverine]] route into the [[Hong River]] plain from the north.

Quyen anticipated this plan and brought his army to the mouth of the river. He had his men plant a barrier of large poles in the bed of the river. The tops of the poles reached just below the water level at high tide and were sharpened and tipped with iron. When Hung-ts'ao appeared off the mouth of the river, Quyen sent out small, shallow-draft boats at high tide to provoke a fight and then retreat upriver, drawing the Chinese fleet after in pursuit. As the tide fell, the heavy Chinese warboats were all caught on the poles and lay helplessly trapped in the middle of the river. Quyen attacked vigorously. More than half the Chinese were drowned, including Hung-ts'ao. When news of the battle reached Sea Gate with the survivors, Liu Kung wept openly. He collected what remained of his army and returned to [[Guangzhou|Canton]]. The Southern Han never attacked the Vietnamese again. This victory ended China's long domination of Vietnam and began Vietnam's period of "relative autonomy." Quyen's tactic would later be copied by [[Tran Hung Dao]] against the [[Mongols]] in a later battle at [[Battle of Bach Dang (1288)|Bạch Đằng River]] in 1288.

The Bach Dang victory in 938 put an end to the period of Chinese imperial domination. In 939, Ngo Quyen proclaimed himself king of [[Annam (Chinese Province)|Annam]], established his capital at [[Co Loa Thanh|Co Loa]] (previously a capital in the 3rd century BC) and set up a centralized government. It was the first truly independent Vietnamese state.
==See also==
*[[Battle of Bach Dang (981)]]
*[[Battle of Bach Dang (1288)]]
==External links==
*[http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/showarticle.php?num=04SUN220106 Spears offer insight into early military strategy]

[[Category:Ngô Dynasty]]
[[Category:Battles involving Vietnam|Battle of Bach Dang River (938)]]
[[Category:Battles involving China|Battle of Bach Dang River (938)]]
[[Category:938]]
[[Category:938 in China]]
[[Category:Naval battles involving Vietnam|Battle of Bach Dang River (938)]]
[[Category:Naval battles involving China|Battle of Bach Dang River (938)]]
[[Category:938 in Vietnam]]

[[fr:Bataille du Bạch Đằng]]
[[ja:白藤江の戦い (938年)]]
[[vi:Trận Bạch Đằng, 938]]

Talk:Battle of Bạch Đằng (938)

2008-08-06T15:02:17Z

Rungbachduong: /* This article is biased */

Talk:Lý Long Tường

2008-08-06T13:29:36Z

Rungbachduong: /* Earlier visitor to Korea */

{{WikiProject Vietnam|class=stub|importance=}}
{{WikiProject Korea|class=start|importance=|wg=history}}

==Korean name==
Was his Korean name Yi Nyeong-sang? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:30, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
:I tried Googling but got zero results for "이융상 베트남". --'''[[User:Kjoonlee|Kjoon]]'''[[User talk:Kjoonlee|lee]] 11:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hoax tag ==
What does the editor who placed the "hoax" tag believe to be fradulent/falsified in this article? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

See [http://books.google.com/books?id=mtU4H21wdFoC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=%22L%C3%BD+Long+T%C6%B0%E1%BB%9Dng%22+-wikipedia&source=web&ots=UhxKW0zUQ8&sig=bxprA2YQ8Tj412hMldpVnPedDsk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result Google Books search here]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:47, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Another article [http://www.vusta.vn/english/news_detail.asp?id=22944 here]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

:I placed a hoax tag because there are currently rather wild rumours flying all over the place regarding the supposed connections between certain political figures in the Korean peninsula and modern-day Vietnam. It is likely that the historical figure that the article is discussing actually exists; however, the information given does make me wonder whether a large chunk of it is just pseudo-history (I should add that the edit history is conspicuously short; obviously; this must an obscure topic). This actually reminds of how even an article like [[Trung Sisters]] tends to accumulate a lot of blatant pseudo-history and misrepresentations.

:Also, many books are written for deceptive purposes. I would not rely too heavily on book searches (unless it comes from a place like a reputable University) from the Internet if I were you.

:By the way, the website you have just provided seems to lead to a communist controlled website as it resolves to the .vn domain. This immediately trashes its credibility, ''regardless of the factual accuracy of the material being presented''. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 01:13, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Many sites that resolve to capitalist domains are full of misinformation as well. Let us begin evaluating the information now. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

:We've found only sources that are newspapers in Vietnam. Here is a good one (but in Vietnamese, sorry)[http://www.tuoitre.com.vn/tianyon/Index.aspx?ArticleID=172630&ChannelID=89] with information on Ly Long Tuong's decendents, who are now Korean citizens, some have visited and now do business in Vietnam, some even brought the whole family to live in Vietnam. This "Tuoi tre" is one of the 4 or 5 biggest newspapers in Vietnam. I don't see any reasons to say that "Tuoi tre" does not satisfy [[WP:V]], unless [[WP:V]] said something like "any communist-related sources are not reliable".
:Anyway, I'll ask vi editors to find non-Vietnamese sources and tell you as soon as we find one.
:[[User:Tmct|Tmct]] ([[User talk:Tmct|talk]]) 12:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
::@ David873: See for yourself [[Vietnamese people in Korea]], and if you want to claim that article POV, unreliable or even hoax, place "some" templates there too. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 15:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hoax or not, some of the details are clearly wrong. In the absence of good sourcing, that casts doubt on the reliability of the rest. For one example, Pusan is nowhere near South Hwanghae province. --[[User:Amble|Amble]] ([[User talk:Amble|talk]]) 23:17, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
::With the above sources, I removed {{tl|hoax}}. If David873 have further question, please put it here before place template, thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 19:49, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I have just done a Google search and I am still unconvinced that the article is not hoax. I noticed that the Google search is literally littered with links to websites that are either commercial, this Wikipedia article itself, references books whose authenticity and reliability cannot be ascertained or websites whose neutrality is questionable due to their association with either Vietnam or Vietnamese culture. Furthermore, not a single reliable English language publication on this historical figure could be found (note that sources from the Vietnamese government or its agencies are NOT to be trusted for obvious reasons). On the contrary, I have strong reasons (mostly geographic) to believe that at best, this historical figure only had tenuous links to Vietnam and far more likely that there were, in fact, no connections at all. 
:::Again, I have to reiterate the fact that the conspicuously short edit history (prior to the hoax tag being placed) speaks for itself, considering the fact that this article has existed for more than 12 months. Until a valid and reliable source in English surfaces, the hoax tag will remain in the article. Furthermore, I am seriously considering deletion of the article should it become clear that a substantial number of editors from the relevant WikiProjects believe that the article is a hoax and that there are simply no reliable sources in English available. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 10:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
::::So if we agree with your suggestion (''websites whose neutrality is questionable due to their association with either Vietnam or Vietnamese culture''), from now on, all articles relating with American culture must remove all source coming from CNN, NYTimes,...? Furthermore, "Institute of Southeast Asian Studies" is of course NOT a Vietnamese publisher but you still try to ignore that one (with your argument)?
::::"I have strong reasons" - show us your references because we have shown you valid sources (after [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]], not after your criteria). If you think this article must go to deletion discussions, so do it, the result will tell for itself. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 14:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
@David873. If you had looked at the Google link that Badagnani provided above, you would have seen the following:
:''Modernity and Re-Enchantment: Religion in Post-Revolutionary Vietnam
:''By Philip Taylor
:''Published by '''Institute of Southeast Asian Studies''', 2007
Would you insist that [http://muse.jhu.edu/about/publishers/iseas/ Institute of Southeast Asian Studies] is unreliable and a place where a hoax can be published? [[User:Tmct|Tmct]] ([[User talk:Tmct|talk]]) 20:08, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

::[http://rspas.anu.edu.au/people/personal/taylp_ant.php This] is the author. We could contact him and ask for more sources. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Excellent. That way, we can see if it is genuine or if it is just another example of fraud or forgery. Don't get me wrong here; I have literally seen a plethora of fake books and fraudulent references on the internet. One of the worst cases I have seen so far involved a fraudulent "e-book" that was either made up or was a modified version of a publication by a University staff member).
:::Also, I advise all editors who have even the slightest doubt as to the truthfulness of the article in question to actually examine a modern world map and ask themselves the following question: "Given the distance from Vietnam to Korea, does the article sound plausible?" I ask this because a lot of events and historical figures in Vietnamese history are blatant misrepresentations, yet there is often a lack of evidence to offer an alternative view.
:::The reason why I have not cited any sources was because, in my opinion, there are simply no sources whose reliability can be ''ascertained''. Yes, I found forum posts that also shared my views (and even gave alternative views) but they are no suitable for citing either.
:::I also noticed that there has been no input from any editor from WikiProject Korea so far. Perhaps I should inform them about this discussion. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 22:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

::The story about the long-lost Korean who showed up one day is compelling and newsworthy (you read the part where he produced genealogical records "proving" that he descended back to the Vietnamese ancestor?), but I agree we need to verify it. Otherwise it could simply be a falsification used to strengthen relations between the two countries, and picked up on by an unsuspecting academic who wouldn't imagine something like that could be made up. It wouldn't be the first time. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 22:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:::The fact that such claims have been made and accepted by a significant number of people certainly makes the claims notable. My main concern here is whether the claims can be proved beyond reasonable doubt, whether there is no conclusive evidence to prove either way or whether the claims are simply blatant examples of pseudo-history. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
== Earlier visitor to Korea ==
There's an even earlier visitor to Korea, Lý Dương Côn, mentioned at [[Vietnamese people in Korea]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:The sad thing is that there are simply scarce English language literature out there about many historical figures in Vietnamese history; of most concern though is that of the sources that are available, there are virtually none whose reliability can be ascertained. Indeed, there is not even a Wikipedia article on [[Lý Dương Côn]] and the article on the supposed adopter has inadequate references. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
:I must also add that there is clearly a pattern of bias here. Unless we actually see a proper source produced by a reputable organisation with no strong links to regimes known for promoting blatantly false information on a large scale (such as Vietnam and North Korea), I am afraid we will be stuck here. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
::''regimes known for promoting blatantly false information on a large scale'' - one more time, do not use your criteria for wikipedia's articles, there are a lot of forums, blogs where you can talk anything without proper arguments, so unless you have sources claiming this historic event (and other event of Vietnam's history) false, please stop judging and editing here after your "sad thing". Thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 12:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Sorry for telling you this but this is not the first time - nor will it be the last - that someone else has pointed out elsewhere on Wikipedia that communist sources should ''generally'' not be used for they are not reliable as per [[WP:SOURCE]]; they are questionable as they have "a poor reputation for fact-checking" due to the fact that they only serve the communist governments' agendas (this should remind you of the severe consequences that strong government control of the press can have such as censorship?). Clearly, some of the claims made in the article fall under the heading "Exceptional claims" as they are "surprising or apparently important claims not covered by mainstream sources". Please remember that this ''is'' the English Wikipedia after all so our point of reference here will be the mass media as seen by English-speaking communities; Yet, we have seen no more than a couple of sources (at most) that could ''possibly'' be deemed to be borderline and none that are indisputably high quality. For example, we have not seen a single source from a source like CNN or the BBC. I also believe that all Korean sources seen so far are all coming from the communist side. 
:::In any case, I will be waiting for meaningful input from a member of WikiProject Korea. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 13:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
::::So you are still trying to ignore this source?
:''Modernity and Re-Enchantment: Religion in Post-Revolutionary Vietnam
:''By Philip Taylor
:''Published by '''Institute of Southeast Asian Studies''', 2007
::::Moreover, "someone else" is not the final decision of [[WP:SOURCE]] so we will continue using sources from Vietnamese publishers. If you wait for "meaningful input" (means ours is meaningless?) from WikiProject Korea, why don't you go there and request them instead of staying here and showing your argument? [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 13:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Lý Long Tường

2008-08-06T12:28:37Z

Rungbachduong: /* Earlier visitor to Korea */

{{WikiProject Vietnam|class=stub|importance=}}
{{WikiProject Korea|class=start|importance=|wg=history}}

==Korean name==
Was his Korean name Yi Nyeong-sang? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:30, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
:I tried Googling but got zero results for "이융상 베트남". --'''[[User:Kjoonlee|Kjoon]]'''[[User talk:Kjoonlee|lee]] 11:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hoax tag ==
What does the editor who placed the "hoax" tag believe to be fradulent/falsified in this article? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

See [http://books.google.com/books?id=mtU4H21wdFoC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=%22L%C3%BD+Long+T%C6%B0%E1%BB%9Dng%22+-wikipedia&source=web&ots=UhxKW0zUQ8&sig=bxprA2YQ8Tj412hMldpVnPedDsk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result Google Books search here]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:47, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Another article [http://www.vusta.vn/english/news_detail.asp?id=22944 here]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

:I placed a hoax tag because there are currently rather wild rumours flying all over the place regarding the supposed connections between certain political figures in the Korean peninsula and modern-day Vietnam. It is likely that the historical figure that the article is discussing actually exists; however, the information given does make me wonder whether a large chunk of it is just pseudo-history (I should add that the edit history is conspicuously short; obviously; this must an obscure topic). This actually reminds of how even an article like [[Trung Sisters]] tends to accumulate a lot of blatant pseudo-history and misrepresentations.

:Also, many books are written for deceptive purposes. I would not rely too heavily on book searches (unless it comes from a place like a reputable University) from the Internet if I were you.

:By the way, the website you have just provided seems to lead to a communist controlled website as it resolves to the .vn domain. This immediately trashes its credibility, ''regardless of the factual accuracy of the material being presented''. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 01:13, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Many sites that resolve to capitalist domains are full of misinformation as well. Let us begin evaluating the information now. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 01:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

:We've found only sources that are newspapers in Vietnam. Here is a good one (but in Vietnamese, sorry)[http://www.tuoitre.com.vn/tianyon/Index.aspx?ArticleID=172630&ChannelID=89] with information on Ly Long Tuong's decendents, who are now Korean citizens, some have visited and now do business in Vietnam, some even brought the whole family to live in Vietnam. This "Tuoi tre" is one of the 4 or 5 biggest newspapers in Vietnam. I don't see any reasons to say that "Tuoi tre" does not satisfy [[WP:V]], unless [[WP:V]] said something like "any communist-related sources are not reliable".
:Anyway, I'll ask vi editors to find non-Vietnamese sources and tell you as soon as we find one.
:[[User:Tmct|Tmct]] ([[User talk:Tmct|talk]]) 12:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
::@ David873: See for yourself [[Vietnamese people in Korea]], and if you want to claim that article POV, unreliable or even hoax, place "some" templates there too. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 15:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hoax or not, some of the details are clearly wrong. In the absence of good sourcing, that casts doubt on the reliability of the rest. For one example, Pusan is nowhere near South Hwanghae province. --[[User:Amble|Amble]] ([[User talk:Amble|talk]]) 23:17, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
::With the above sources, I removed {{tl|hoax}}. If David873 have further question, please put it here before place template, thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 19:49, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I have just done a Google search and I am still unconvinced that the article is not hoax. I noticed that the Google search is literally littered with links to websites that are either commercial, this Wikipedia article itself, references books whose authenticity and reliability cannot be ascertained or websites whose neutrality is questionable due to their association with either Vietnam or Vietnamese culture. Furthermore, not a single reliable English language publication on this historical figure could be found (note that sources from the Vietnamese government or its agencies are NOT to be trusted for obvious reasons). On the contrary, I have strong reasons (mostly geographic) to believe that at best, this historical figure only had tenuous links to Vietnam and far more likely that there were, in fact, no connections at all. 
:::Again, I have to reiterate the fact that the conspicuously short edit history (prior to the hoax tag being placed) speaks for itself, considering the fact that this article has existed for more than 12 months. Until a valid and reliable source in English surfaces, the hoax tag will remain in the article. Furthermore, I am seriously considering deletion of the article should it become clear that a substantial number of editors from the relevant WikiProjects believe that the article is a hoax and that there are simply no reliable sources in English available. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 10:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
::::So if we agree with your suggestion (''websites whose neutrality is questionable due to their association with either Vietnam or Vietnamese culture''), from now on, all articles relating with American culture must remove all source coming from CNN, NYTimes,...? Furthermore, "Institute of Southeast Asian Studies" is of course NOT a Vietnamese publisher but you still try to ignore that one (with your argument)?
::::"I have strong reasons" - show us your references because we have shown you valid sources (after [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]], not after your criteria). If you think this article must go to deletion discussions, so do it, the result will tell for itself. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 14:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
@David873. If you had looked at the Google link that Badagnani provided above, you would have seen the following:
:''Modernity and Re-Enchantment: Religion in Post-Revolutionary Vietnam
:''By Philip Taylor
:''Published by '''Institute of Southeast Asian Studies''', 2007
Would you insist that [http://muse.jhu.edu/about/publishers/iseas/ Institute of Southeast Asian Studies] is unreliable and a place where a hoax can be published? [[User:Tmct|Tmct]] ([[User talk:Tmct|talk]]) 20:08, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

::[http://rspas.anu.edu.au/people/personal/taylp_ant.php This] is the author. We could contact him and ask for more sources. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 20:23, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Excellent. That way, we can see if it is genuine or if it is just another example of fraud or forgery. Don't get me wrong here; I have literally seen a plethora of fake books and fraudulent references on the internet. One of the worst cases I have seen so far involved a fraudulent "e-book" that was either made up or was a modified version of a publication by a University staff member).
:::Also, I advise all editors who have even the slightest doubt as to the truthfulness of the article in question to actually examine a modern world map and ask themselves the following question: "Given the distance from Vietnam to Korea, does the article sound plausible?" I ask this because a lot of events and historical figures in Vietnamese history are blatant misrepresentations, yet there is often a lack of evidence to offer an alternative view.
:::The reason why I have not cited any sources was because, in my opinion, there are simply no sources whose reliability can be ''ascertained''. Yes, I found forum posts that also shared my views (and even gave alternative views) but they are no suitable for citing either.
:::I also noticed that there has been no input from any editor from WikiProject Korea so far. Perhaps I should inform them about this discussion. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 22:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

::The story about the long-lost Korean who showed up one day is compelling and newsworthy (you read the part where he produced genealogical records "proving" that he descended back to the Vietnamese ancestor?), but I agree we need to verify it. Otherwise it could simply be a falsification used to strengthen relations between the two countries, and picked up on by an unsuspecting academic who wouldn't imagine something like that could be made up. It wouldn't be the first time. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 22:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:::The fact that such claims have been made and accepted by a significant number of people certainly makes the claims notable. My main concern here is whether the claims can be proved beyond reasonable doubt, whether there is no conclusive evidence to prove either way or whether the claims are simply blatant examples of pseudo-history. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
== Earlier visitor to Korea ==
There's an even earlier visitor to Korea, Lý Dương Côn, mentioned at [[Vietnamese people in Korea]]. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
:The sad thing is that there are simply scarce English language literature out there about many historical figures in Vietnamese history; of most concern though is that of the sources that are available, there are virtually none whose reliability can be ascertained. Indeed, there is not even a Wikipedia article on [[Lý Dương Côn]] and the article on the supposed adopter has inadequate references. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
:I must also add that there is clearly a pattern of bias here. Unless we actually see a proper source produced by a reputable organisation with no strong links to regimes known for promoting blatantly false information on a large scale (such as Vietnam and North Korea), I am afraid we will be stuck here. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 09:55, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
::''regimes known for promoting blatantly false information on a large scale'' - one more time, do not use your criteria for wikipedia's articles, there are a lot of forums, blogs where you can talk anything without proper arguments, so unless you have sources claiming this historic event (and other event of Vietnam's history) false, please stop judging and editing here after your "sad thing". Thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 12:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

User talk:David873

2008-08-05T20:17:22Z

Rungbachduong: /* Lý Long Tường */

''Notice to all editors: This talk page is '''not''' for soapboxing or other content that is contrary to Wikipedia user talk page guidelines. Unless disallowed by Wikipedia policy, this talk page may be blanked at any time without warning by the user of this page.'' [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873#top|talk]]) 13:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC) 


== About [[User:Omaga99]] ==

I have replied my views at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Good articles#About User:Omaga99]]. [[User:OhanaUnited|OhanaUnited]][[User talk:OhanaUnited|Talk page]] 14:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

==[[Lý Long Tường]]==
Have you examined [[:vi:Lý Long Tường]]? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
:Well, I cannot do so since I can only understand English. Sorry. 
:I must add that the lack of sources in the English language version is very alarming, considering that some of the information sounds like pseudo-history. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873#top|talk]]) 00:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

There are sources; please see the Google Books source I have added at the discussion page. It is in English. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 00:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
:Please see [[Talk:Vietnamese people in Korea]], thank you. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 20:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== About opening time of the beijing olympics. ==

I want to have you attention that the "08:08:08" in the source article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/7498629.stm) does not mean 8:08:08pm but actually 8pm on Aug. 8th. So the correct time is 8pm. I hope to avoid edit war.--[[User:Tingo|Tingo]] ([[User talk:Tingo|talk]]) 13:00, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Socks ==

Your guess is as good as mine. I don't think the way these people do, and consequently it's hard for me to imagine behaving that way, let alone figure it out. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 17:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe you should remove any content from that user page (including the "F U" comment), because it clearly illustrates why this individual had been blocked in the first place, and may avoid any decision to unblock him in the future. I ask you to please reconsider that removal. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 17:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:Unfortunately, some of the contents deleted attacked other editors. Also, an administrator has made it plain at [[Talk:Nanyue]] that there is no excuse for any kind of racism whatsoever at Wikipedia pages and that any such content must be removed on sight. In any case, diffs can still be used in any report that may be written against the offending user. [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873#top|talk]]) 22:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Vietnamese people in Korea

2008-08-05T20:16:06Z

Rungbachduong: /* Early history: Fact or Fiction? */

{{WikiProject Vietnam|class=|importance=}}
{{WikiProject Korea|start|low}}
{{WikiProject Southeast Asia|class=start|importance=low}}

== Vietnamese Refugees in South Korea ==

Up until shortly before diplomatic relations were restored in 1992 South Korea maintained a Vietnamese refugee camp on the south coast near Pusan. Vietnamese citizens picked up on the high seas by Korean flag vessels were taken to Korea and allowed refugee status and housing within the camp. As it became apparent that diplomatic relations were about to be re-established, the Koreans quickly hustled the Vietnamese out of Korea and disassembled the camp. By the time the former South Vietnamese Embassy in Seoul was handed over to the Socialist Republic of Vietnam there was no remaining trace of the refugees. {{unsigned|202.79.62.27|08:14, 25 May 2007 (UTC)}}

==Early history: Fact or Fiction?==
The section "Early history" smells of a hoax. In particular, no reliable English language sources appear to have been used to support the ideas put forward and an attempt to find one by Google search has proved fruitless (note that sources from the Vietnamese government or its agencies are unsuitable as references for history articles due to interference by the communist party). [[User:David873|David873]] ([[User talk:David873|talk]]) 12:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:According to you, all communistic sources, north Korean sources which are used in this articles is unreliable? Only English sources are reliable? Could you tell me where have you get this citeria? [[WP:V]], [[WP:RS]]?--[[User:Xvn|Xvn]] ([[User talk:Xvn|talk]]) 13:55, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
::David873, we judge the reliability of sources after [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]], NOT your criteria. If you want to put some templates here because of your criteria (''sources from the Vietnamese government or its agencies are unsuitable as references for history articles due to interference by the communist party''), let change first [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]]. From now on, I will remove all templates that you put here or another articles relating with Vietnam if you continue using your arguments for judging sources. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 20:16, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Vietnamese people in Korea

2008-08-05T20:07:59Z

Rungbachduong: Remove ALL template, see discussion

'''Vietnamese people in Korea''' have a history going back to the latter days of Vietnam's [[Ly Dynasty]]; several princes of Ly sought refuge with the kingdom of [[Goryeo]].<ref> Professors review Vietnamese-Korean cultural relationship,http://english.vietnamnet.vn/lifestyle/2007/07/719203/</ref> After the [[division of Korea]] and the [[Korean War]], [[Vietnamese people]] began settling in both [[North Korea|North]] and [[South Korea]].

==Early history==
One of the earliest Vietnamese people in Korea was [[Lý Dương Côn]] (李陽焜), an adopted son of Emperor [[Lý Nhân Tông]]; following a succession crisis, he fled to [[Goryeo]]. He is remembered in modern-day Korea as the founder of the [[Jeongseon|Jeongseon-gun]], [[Gangwon (historical)|Gangwon-do]] ''[[bon-gwan]]'' of the [[Lee (Korean name)|Lee]] family.<ref>{{citation|url=http://www.rootsinfo.co.kr/name/frame.cgi?sirname=lee&bon=lee_jsn|title=RootsInfo Korea|date=2007|accessdate=2007-07-09|contribution=旌善李氏 (Jeongseon Lee)}}</ref><ref name="TT">{{citation|url=http://www.tuoitre.com.vn/Tianyon/Index.aspx?ArticleID=172417&ChannelID=89|title=Đi tìm dòng họ Lý ở Hàn Quốc: 800 năm hoài cố hương (Looking for the Lee family in Korea)|author=Trung Nghia|periodical=Tuoi Tre
|date=[[2006-11-14]]|accessdate=2007-07-02}}</ref> Later, a Vietnamese prince of the [[Ly Dynasty]], [[Lý Long Tường]] (the seventh son of emperor [[Lý Anh Tông]]) and his crew of several thousand mandarins and servants sailed directly to Korea after hearing that the Ly Dynasty would be overthrown by the [[Tran Dynasty]]. [[Lý Anh Tông]] and his crew sought refuge in Goryeo in 1226. The Vietnamese prince made significant contributions, sharing warfare tactics which would help Korea repel Mongol invasions. A report on [[Lý Long Tường]] was broadcast by the South Korean TV channel [[KBS]] in December 1995.<ref>Kelly, Tim (2006-09-18), “Ho Chi Minh Money Trail”, Forbes, <http://members.forbes.com/global/2006/0918/028.html>. Retrieved on 27 March 2007 </ref>

Legend has it that King [[Gojong of Goryeo]] (1213-1259) had dreamt of a grand phoenix flying from the south landing in his nation; therefore, he ordered the local government of [[Haeju]], [[Hwanghae]] to give the Vietnamese refugees a red-carpet welcome and let them live in a manor in the nearby countryside. [[Lý Long Tường]] thus became the patriarch of the [[Hwasan]], [[Ongjin, South Hwanghae|Ongjin-gun]] ''bon-gwan'' of the [[Lee]] family. On November 6, 1958, during his visit to [[South Vietnam]], South Korean president [[Syngman Rhee]] reportedly told the local press that he was a descendant of [[Ly Long Tuong]].<ref name="TT"/><ref>{{citation|url=http://www.rootsinfo.co.kr/name/frame.cgi?sirname=lee&bon=lee_hws|contribution=花山李氏 (The Hwasan Lee clan)|title=RootsInfo Korea|date=2007|accessdate=2007-07-09}}</ref>

==After the division of Korea==
Students from [[North Vietnam]] began going to [[North Korea]] to study as early as the 1960s, even before the formal establishment of Korean-language education in their country.<ref>{{citation|url=http://newsletter.kf.or.kr/english/contents.asp?vol=51&lang=English&no=545|title=Korean Studies in Vietnam|journal=Korea Foundation Newsletter|date=February 2005|volume=14|issue=1|last=Le|first=Quang Thiem|accessdate=2007-07-09}}</ref> The current Vietnamese ambassador to South Korea is a graduate of [[Kim Il-sung University]].<ref>{{citation|url=http://article.joins.com/article/article.asp?total_id=442471|title=`우리는 김일성대학 동문 사이`|periodical=JoongAng Ilbo|date=[[2005-01-27]]|accessdate=2007-07-09|last=Choe|first=Won-gi}}</ref> The son of a former staff member in the Vietnamese embassy in [[Pyongyang]], who also attended Kim Il-sung University between 1998 and 2002, gave an interview in 2004 with [[Newspapers of South Korea|South Korean newspaper]] ''[[The Chosun Ilbo]]'' about the experiences he had while living there.<ref>{{citation|publisher=The Chosun Ilbo|date=2004-10-05|title=김일성大 베트남 유학생이 본 북한}}</ref>

Vietnamese migration to South Korea began later, but quickly grew to a large scale; their population consists mainly of migrant workers and women introduced to local husbands through marriage agencies.<ref>{{citation|last=Nguyen|first=Nhu|date=1999|title=The Reality: Vietnamese Migrant Workers in South Korea|location=Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam|publisher=Mobility Research and Support Center}}</ref> In 1994, 20,493 [[guest worker|labour migrants]] went from [[Vietnam]] to South Korea on traineeship visas; by 1997, this had risen by about 10% to 22,325. Migrants were mostly male and unskilled; they were employed in small and medium-sized companies in labour-intensive industries such as fishing and manufacturing.<ref>{{citation|title=Migration in the Asia Pacific: Population, Settlement and Citizenship Issues|last=Iredale|first=Robin R.|coauthors=Castles, Stephen; Hawksley, Charles|publisher=Edward Elgar Publishing|location=Cheltenham, United Kingdom|date=2003|isbn=1840648600|page=173}}</ref> [[Mail-order bride|Spousal migration]] has a somewhat longer history; during the [[Vietnam War]], some of the more than 300,000 [[Military of South Korea|South Korean soldiers]] and civilian support staff stationed in Vietnam married Vietnamese women and brought them back to Korea; however, many of these marriages ended in divorce.<ref name=Kagan>{{citation|url=http://www.hamline.edu/~rkagan/Publications_Asian%20Literary%20Views%20on%20Vietnam.html|title=Disarming Memories: Japanese, Korean and American Literature on the Vietnam War|publisher=Hamline University|location=St. Paul, Minnesota|last=Kagan|first=Richard C.}}</ref> Spousal migration would not become a large-scale phenomenon until the 1990s, when South Korean men unable to attract wives locally began to turn to marriage agencies to seek brides in overseas countries, including Vietnam; as of 2006, 5,000 Vietnamese brides immigrated to South Korea every year.<ref name=Forbes>{{citation|url=http://members.forbes.com/global/2006/0918/028.html|title=Ho Chi Minh Money Trail|last=Kelly|first=Tim|date=[[2006-09-18]]|accessdate=2007-03-27|periodical=Forbes}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|title=Marriage brokers in Vietnam cater to S. Korean bachelors|last=Onishi|first=Norimitsu|authorlink=Norimitsu Onishi|periodical=International Herald Tribune|date=[[2007-02-21]]|accessdate=2007-03-27|url=http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/21/news/brides.php}}</ref><ref>{{citation|last=Onishi|first=Norimitsu|title=Wed to Strangers, Vietnamese Wives Build Korean Lives|date=[[2008-03-30]]|accessdate=2008-03-31|periodical=The New York Times|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/world/asia/30brides.html?pagewanted=all}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Koreans in Vietnam]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{Immigrants and expatriates in Korea}}
{{Overseas Vietnamese}}

[[Category:Korean society]]
[[Category:Vietnamese diaspora|Korea, Vietnamese people in]]

[[ko:재한 베트남인]]
[[vi:Người Việt tại Triều Tiên]]

Ho Chi Minh

2008-08-04T16:02:38Z

Rungbachduong: + image

:''For the city named after him, see [[Ho Chi Minh City]].''
{{Infobox_President
| name=Hồ Chí Minh
| image=Ho Chi Minh 1945.jpg
| caption=Ho Chi Minh at the independence day of [[Democratic Republic of Vietnam]], [[September 2]] [[1945]]
| nationality=[[Vietnam]]ese
| birth_date={{birth date|1890|5|19|mf=y}}
| birth_place=[[Nghe An Province|Nghệ An Province]], [[Vietnam]]
| death_date={{death date and age|1969|9|2|1890|5|19|mf=y}}
| death_place=[[Hanoi]], [[Vietnam]]
| spouse
| order= First [[President of Vietnam|President of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam]]
| term_start=[[September 2]], [[1945]]
| term_end=[[September 2]], [[1969]]
| predecessor=N/A
| successor=[[Tôn Đức Thắng]]
| party=[[Communist Party of Vietnam|Vietnam Workers' Party]]
| vicepresident=
| order2= Second [[Prime Minister of Vietnam|Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam]]
| term_start2=[[September 2]], [[1945]]
| term_end2=[[September 20]], [[1955]]
| predecessor2=N/A
| successor2=[[Phạm Văn Đồng]]
}}

'''Hồ Chí Minh''' {{Audio|HoChiMinh.ogg|listen}} (name {{pronounced|hò̤ tɕǐmɪ̄ɲ}}) ([[May 19]], [[1890]] – [[September 2]], [[1969]]) was a [[communism|Communist]], [[Marxism-Leninism|Marxist-Leninist]] [[Vietnam]]ese [[revolutionary]] and statesman, who later became prime minister (1946–1955) and president (1946–1969) of the [[Democratic Republic of Vietnam]] (North Vietnam).

Ho led the [[Viet Minh]] [[independence movement]] from 1941 onward, establishing the communist-governed Democratic Republic of Vietnam in 1945 and defeating the [[French Union]] in 1954 at [[battle of Dien Bien Phu|Dien Bien Phu]]. He led the North Vietnamese in the [[Vietnam War]] until his death; six years later, the war ended with a North Vietnamese victory, and Vietnamese unification followed. He was named by [[Time Magazine]] as one of the [[Time 100: The Most Important People of the Century|100 most influential]] people of the 20th century,<ref>[http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/hochiminh.html Time 100: Ho Chi Minh] by Stanley Karnow, April 13 1998</ref> while the former capital of [[South Vietnam]], [[Saigon]], was renamed [[Ho Chi Minh City]] in his honor.

===Early life===

Hồ Chí Minh was born, as Nguyễn Sinh Cung, in 1890 in Hoàng Trù Village, his mother's hometown. From 1895, he grew up in his paternal hometown of Kim Liên Village, Nam Đàn District, [[Nghe An Province|Nghệ An Province]], Vietnam. He had three siblings, his sister Bạch Liên (or Nguyễn Thị Thanh), a clerk in the [[French Army]], his brother [[Nguyễn Sinh Khiêm]] (or Nguyễn Tất Đạt), a [[Geomancy|geomancer]] and traditional herbalist, and another brother (Nguyễn Sinh Nhuận) who died in his infancy. Following [[Confucianism|Confucian]] traditions, at the age of 10 his father named him Nguyễn Tất Thành (Nguyễn the Accomplished).
Ho's father, Nguyễn Sinh Sắc, was a Confucian scholar, small time teacher and later an imperial magistrate in a small remote district Binh Khe (Qui Nhon). He was later sacked for torturing a peasant to death during his drunkenness. Different to his father, Ho were with french education, attended lycée in Huế, the alma mater of his later disciples, Phạm Văn Ðồng and Võ Nguyên Giáp. He later left his studies and chose to teach at Dục Thanh school in Phan Thiết.

====First sojourn in France====
On [[5 June]] [[1911]], Hồ Chí Minh left Vietnam on a French steamer, ''Amiral Latouche-Tréville'', working as a kitchen helper. Arriving in [[Marseille]], [[France]], he applied for the [[French Colonial Administrative School]] but his application was rejected.<ref>[http://www.hungviet.org/hcm/xinhoc.html Hồ applied for the French Colonial Administrative School]</ref> During his stay, he worked as a cleaner, waiter, and film retoucher. Hồ spent most of his free time in public libraries reading history books and newspapers to familiarize himself with [[Western Civilization|Western]] society and politics.

===In the USA===
In 1912, again working as the cook's helper on a ship, Hồ Chí Minh traveled to the [[United States]]. From 1912 to 1913, he lived in [[New York City|New York]] ([[Harlem]]) and [[Boston, Massachusetts|Boston]], where he worked as a baker at the [[Omni Parker House|Parker House]] Hotel. He worked in menial jobs and later claimed to have worked for a wealthy family in [[Brooklyn]] between 1917 and 1918, and during this time he may have heard [[Marcus Garvey]] speak in [[Harlem]]. It is believed that while in the United States he made contact with [[Koreans|Korean]] [[nationalist]]s, an experience that developed his political outlook.<ref name="Quinn Judge">Sophie Quinn-Judge, ''Hồ Chí Minh: The Missing Years'', University of California Press, 2002 ISBN 0-520-23533-9</ref>

===In England===
At various points between 1913 and 1919, Hồ lived in [[West Ealing]], west [[London]], and later in [[Crouch End]], [[Hornsey]], north London. He is reported to have worked as a chef at the Drayton Court Hotel, on The Avenue, West Ealing.<ref>[http://www.ealing.gov.uk/services/leisure/local_history/historic_buildings/drayton_court_hotel.html The Drayton Court Hotel]</ref> It is claimed that Ho trained as a pastry chef under the legendary French master, [[Auguste Escoffier|Escoffier]], at the [[Carlton Hotel]] in the Haymarket, [[Westminster]], but there is no evidence to support this.<ref name="Quinn Judge"/> However, the wall of [[High Commission of New Zealand in London|New Zealand House]], home of the New Zealand [[High Commission]], which now stands on the site of the Carlton Hotel, displays a [[Blue plaque|Blue Plaque]], stating that Hồ worked there in 1913 as a waiter.<ref>[http://www.londontourist.org/attractions.html The London Tourism Guide - a free tourist and visitor guidebook for England's capital city]</ref>

===Political education in France===

From 1919–1923, while living in [[France]], Hồ Chí Minh embraced [[communism]], through his friend Marcel Cachin ([[SFIO]]).{{Fact|date=January 2008}} Ho claimed to have arrived in Paris from London in 1917 but French police only have documents of his arrival in June 1919.<ref name="Quinn Judge"/> Following [[World War I]], under the name of Nguyễn Ái Quốc (Nguyen the Patriot), he petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the Vietnamese people in [[French Indochina]] to the Western powers at the [[Versailles]] peace talks, but was ignored. Citing the language and the spirit of the [[U.S. Declaration of Independence]], Ho petitioned [[President of the United States|U.S. President]] [[Woodrow Wilson]] for help to remove the French from [[Vietnam]] and replace it with a new, nationalist government. His request was ignored.

In 1921, during the Congress of [[Tours]], France, Nguyen Ai Quoc became a founding member of the ''Parti Communiste Français'' ([[French Communist Party]]) and spent much of his time in [[Moscow]] afterwards, becoming the [[Comintern]]'s Asia hand and the principal theorist on colonial warfare. It was at this time that Nguyễn Ái Quốc took the name of "Hồ Chí Minh",{{Fact|date=November 2007}} a Vietnamese name combining a common Vietnamese surname (Hồ, [[wikt:胡|胡]]) with a given name meaning "enlightened will" (from [[Sino-Vietnamese]] [[wikt:志|志]][[wikt:明|明]]; Chí meaning 'will' (or spirit), and Minh meaning 'light'). During the Indochina War, the PCF would be involved with antiwar propaganda, sabotage and support for the revolutionary effort.

===In the Soviet Union and China===
In 1923, Hồ left Paris for [[Moscow]], where he was employed by the [[Comintern]], and participated in the Fifth Comintern Congress in June 1924, before arriving in Canton ([[Guangzhou]]), China, in November 1924. During 1925-26 he organized 'Youth Education Classes' and occasionally gave lectures at the [[Whampoa Military Academy]] on the revolutionary movement in Indochina. He left Canton again in April 1927 and returned to Moscow, spending some of the summer of 1927 recuperating from [[tuberculosis]] in the [[Crimea]], before returning to Paris once more in November. He then returned to Asia by way of [[Brussels]], [[Berlin]], [[Switzerland]], [[Italy]], from where he took a ship to [[Bangkok]] in [[Thailand]], where he arrived in July 1928. He remained in Thailand until late 1929 when he moved on to [[Hong Kong]], and [[Shanghai]]. In June 1931, he was arrested in [[Hong Kong]] and incarcerated by British police until his release in 1933. He then made his way back to the [[Soviet Union]], where he spent several more years recovering from [[tuberculosis]]. In 1938, he returned to [[China]] and served as an adviser with Chinese [[Communist]] armed forces.<ref name="Quinn Judge"/>

===In Thailand===
In 1928-29, Hồ Chí Minh stayed in the Thai village of Nachok.

===Independence movement===
In 1941, Hồ returned to Vietnam to lead the [[Viet Minh|Việt Minh]] independence movement. He oversaw many successful military actions against the [[Vichy French]] and Japanese occupation of Vietnam during [[World War II]], supported closely but clandestinely by the United States [[Office of Strategic Services]], and also later against the French bid to reoccupy the country (1946-1954). He was also jailed in China for many months by [[Chiang Kai-shek]]'s local authorities. After his release in 1943, he again returned to Vietnam. He was treated for malaria and dysentery by American [[Office of Strategic Services|OSS]] doctors.

After the [[August Revolution]] (1945) organized by the Việt Minh, Hồ became Chairman of the Provisional Government (Premier of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam) and issued a declaration of independence that borrowed much from the French and American declarations.<ref>{{cite book
| last = Zinn
| first = Howard
| authorlink =
| coauthors =
| title = A People's History of the United States: 1492-Present
| publisher = Harper Perennial
| date = 1995
| location = New York
| pages = 460
| url =
| doi =
| id =
| isbn = 0060926430 }}</ref> Though he convinced Emperor [[Bao Dai|Bảo Đại]] to abdicate, his government was not recognized by any country. He repeatedly petitioned American President [[Harry Truman]] for support for Vietnamese independence,<ref>[http://rationalrevolution.net/war/collection_of_letters_by_ho_chi_.htm Collection of Letters by Ho Chi Minh]</ref> citing the [[Atlantic Charter]], but Truman never responded.<ref>{{cite book
| last = Zinn
| first = Howard
| authorlink =
| coauthors =
| title = A People's History of the United States: 1492-Present
| publisher = Harper Perennial
| date = 1995
| location = New York
| pages = 461
| url =
| doi =
| id =
| isbn = 0060926430 }}</ref>

In 1945, in a power struggle, the Viet Minh killed members of rival groups, such as the leader of the Constitutional Party, the head of the Party for Independence, and [[Ngo Dinh Diem]]'s brother, [[Ngo Dinh Khoi]].<ref>Joseph Buttinnger, ''Vietnam: A Dragon Embattled'', vol. 1. (New York: Praeger, 1967)</ref> Purges and killings of [[Trotskyists]], the rival anti-Stalinist communists, have also been documented<ref>See: ''[[The Black Book of Communism]]''</ref>. In 1946, when Hồ traveled outside of the country, his subordinates imprisoned 25,000 non-communist nationalists and forced 6,000 others to flee.<ref>Cecil B. Currey, ''Victory At Any Cost'' (Washington: Brassey's, 1997), p. 126</ref> Hundreds of political opponents were also killed in July that same year.<ref> Spencer Tucker, ''Encyclopedia of the Vietnam War: a political, social, and military history'' (vol. 2), 1998</ref> All rival political parties were banned and local governments purged<ref>John Colvin, ''Giap: the Volcano under the Snow'' (New York: Soho Press, 1996), p.51</ref> to minimise opposition later on.

===Birth of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam===
On [[September 2]], [[1945]], after Emperor [[Bao Dai]]'s abdication, Hồ Chí Minh read the Declaration of Independence of Vietnam,<ref>[http://coombs.anu.edu.au/%7Evern/van_kien/declar.html Vietnam Declaration of Independence]</ref> under the name of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam. With violence between rival Vietnamese factions and French forces spiraling, the British commander, [[Douglas Gracey|General Sir Douglas Gracey]] declared martial law. On [[September 24]], the Viet Minh leaders responded with a call for a general strike.<ref>Stanley Karnow, ''Vietnam a History''</ref>

In September 1945, a force of 200,000 Chinese Nationalists arrived in [[Hanoi]]. Hồ Chí Minh made arrangement with their general, Lu Han, to dissolve the Communist Party and to hold an election which would yield a coalition government. When Chiang Kai-Shek later traded Chinese influence in Vietnam for French concessions in Shanghai, Hồ Chí Minh had no choice but to sign an agreement with France on [[March 6]], [[1946]], in which Vietnam would be recognized as an autonomous state in the Indochinese Federation and the [[French Union]]. The agreement soon broke down. The purpose of the agreement was to drive out the Chinese army from North Vietnam. Fighting broke out with the French soon after the Chinese left. Hồ Chí Minh was almost captured by a group of French soldiers led by [[Jean-Etienne Valluy]] at [[Việt Bắc]], but was able to escape.

In February 1950, Hồ met with [[Stalin]] and [[Mao]] in Moscow after the [[Soviet Union]] recognized his government. They all agreed that China would be responsible for backing the [[Viet Minh]].<ref>Luo Guibo, pp. 233-6</ref> Mao's emissary to Moscow stated in August that China planned to train 60-70,000 Viet Minh in the near future.<ref>Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, "Chronology," p. 45.</ref> China's support enabled Ho to escalate the fight against France.

According to a story told by Journalist [[Bernard Fall]], after fighting the French for several years, Hồ decided to negotiate a truce. The French negotiators arrived at the meeting site, a mud hut with a thatched roof. Inside they found a long table with chairs and were surprised to discover in one corner of the room a silver ice bucket containing ice and a bottle of good Champagne which should have indicated that Hồ expected the negotiations to succeed. One demand by the French was the return to French custody of a number of Japanese military officers (who had been helping the Vietnamese armed forces by training them in the use of weapons of Japanese origin), in order for them to stand trial for war crimes committed during [[World War II]]. Hồ replied that the Japanese officers were allies and friends whom he could not betray. Then he walked out, to seven more years of war. (From ''Last Reflections on a War'', Fall's last book, published posthumously.)

In 1954, after the important defeat of French paratroopers at the [[Battle of Dien Bien Phu|Battle of Điện Biên Phủ]], France was forced to give up its empire in Indochina.

===Becoming president===
[[Image:Giap-Ho.jpg|thumb|Ho Chi Minh (right) with [[Vo Nguyen Giap]] (left)]]
[[Image:Ho-Chi-Minhs-House.jpg|thumb|Ho Chi Minh's house behind the Presidential Palace in [[Hanoi]].]]
In 1955, Ho Chi Minh became president of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam ([[North Vietnam]]), a [[Communist]]-led [[single party state]].

The [[Geneva Conference (1954)|1954 Geneva Accords]] required that a national election would be held in 1956 to reunite Vietnam under one government. The agreement was signed by North Vietnam and France, but was rejected and not signed by [[South Vietnam]] and the United States. Therefore the government of [[South Vietnam]], now under the leadership of [[Ngo Dinh Diem]], refused the proposed election. Some contemporary observers consider that if an election had been held in the 1954-55 period, around 80% of the Vietnamese population would have voted for Ho Chi Minh. However the totalitarian government of North Vietnam could never tolerate the free press and free organization of opposition groups required by a free election. <ref> Brigham, ''Guerrilla Diplomacy'', p. 6; Marcus Raskin & Bernard Fall, ''The Viet-Nam Reader'', p. 89; William Duiker, ''U. S. Containment Policy and the Conflict in Indochina'', p. 212</ref> Even "President Eisenhower is widely quoted to the effect that in 1954 as many as 80% of the Vietnamese people would have voted for Ho Chi Minh, as the popular hero of their liberation, in an election against Bao Dai... "<ref>[http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon/pent11.htm The Pentagon Papers, Chapter 5, "Origins of the Insurgency in South Vietnam, 1954-1960"]</ref> The U.S. committed itself to oppose Communism beginning in 1950, when it funded 80% of the French effort. When South Vietnam became independent of France in 1954, the U.S. was its chief sponsor and financial backer, but there never was a treaty between the U.S. and South Vietnam.

{{main|Operation Passage to Freedom}}

Following the [[Geneva Conference (1954)|Geneva Accords]], there was to be a 300-day period in which people could freely move between the zones of the two Vietnams. Some 900,000 to 1 million Vietnamese, mostly [[Roman Catholic Church|Roman Catholic]], left for [[South Vietnam]], while a much smaller number, mostly communists, went from South to North.<ref>[[Pentagon Papers]]: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon/pent11.htm</ref><ref>[[United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees]], [http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/publ/opendoc.pdf?id=3ebf9bad0&tbl=PUBL ''State of the World's Refugees''], Chapter 4, "Flight from Indochina".</ref> This was partly due to propaganda claims by a CIA mission led by Colonel [[Edward Lansdale]] that the [[Virgin Mary]] had moved South out of distaste for life under [[communism]]. Some Canadian observers claimed that some were forced by North Vietnamese authorities to remain against their will.<ref>Thakur, p. 204</ref> During this era, Hồ, following the communist doctrine initiated by Stalin and Mao, started a land reform in which hundreds of thousands of people accused of being landlords were summarily executed or tortured and starved in prison. This also caused millions of people to flee to South Vietnam.<ref>[http://www.rfa.org/english/news/2006/06/08/vietnam_landreform/ RFA: 50 Years On, Vietnamese Remember Land Reform Terror]</ref>

In 1957, [[Lê Duẩn]] was appointed acting party boss and began sending aid to the [[Vietcong]] insurgency in South Vietnam. This represented a loss of power by Hồ, who is said to have preferred the more moderate Giáp for the position. The so called [[Hochiminh Trail]] was built in 1959 to allow aid to be sent to the Vietcong through Laos and Cambodia, thus escalating the war.<ref> Lind, 1999 </ref> Duẩn was named permanent party boss in 1960, leaving Hồ a figurehead president and symbol of Vietnamese Communism.

In late 1964, North Vietnamese combat troops were sent southwest into neutral [[Laos]].<ref> Davidson, ''Vietnam at War: the history, 1946–1975'', 1988 </ref> During the mid to late 1960s, Lê Duẩn permitted 320,000 Chinese volunteers into northern [[North Vietnam]] to help build infrastructure for the country, thereby freeing a similar number of North Vietnamese forces to go south.<ref> Chen Jian, "China's Involvement in the Vietnam Conflict, 1964-69," ''China Quarterly'', No. 142 (June 1995), pp. 366–69. </ref>

=== Death ===
[[Image:Ho-Chi-Minh.jpg|right|thumb|A historical photo of Ho Chi Minh lying in state in his [[mausoleum]]. His body is now displayed in a larger display case.]]
[[Image:Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum 2006.jpg|thumb|Ho Chi Minh [[mausoleum]], Hanoi]]
[[Image:Ho Chi minh estatua.jpg|thumb|Ho Chi Minh statue]]
With the outcome of the [[Vietnam War]] still in question, Ho Chi Minh died on the morning of [[September 2]], [[1969]], at his home in [[Hanoi]] at age 79 from heart failure.

The former capital of [[South Vietnam]], Saigon, was renamed [[Ho Chi Minh City]] on [[1 May]], [[1975]] shortly after its capture which officially ended the war.

His embalmed body is on display in a granite [[Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum]] modeled after [[Lenin's Mausoleum|Lenin's Tomb]] in Moscow. This is similar to other Communist leaders who have been similarly displayed before and since, including [[Mao Zedong]], [[Kim Il-Sung]], and for a time, [[Joseph Stalin]], but the "honor" violated Hồ's last wishes. He wished to be cremated and his ashes buried in urns on hilltops of Vietnam (North, Central and South). He wrote, "Not only is cremation good from the point of view of hygiene but also it saves farmland."

The [[Ho Chi Minh Museum]] in Hanoi is dedicated to his life and work.

In Vietnam today, he is regarded by the Communist government with almost god-like status in a nationwide [[personality cult]], even though the government has abandoned most of his economic policies since the mid-1980s. He is still referred to as "Uncle Hồ" in Vietnam. Hồ's image appears on the front of every [[Vietnamese dong|Vietnamese currency]] note, and Hồ is featured prominently in many of Vietnam's public buildings. In 1987, [[UNESCO]] officially recommended to Member States that they "join in the commemoration of the centenary of the birth of President Ho Chi Minh by organizing various events as a tribute to his memory", considering "the important and many-sided contribution of President Ho Chi Minh in the fields of culture, education and the arts" and that Ho Chi Minh "devoted his whole life to the national liberation of the Vietnamese people, contributing to the common struggle of peoples for peace, national independence, democracy and social progress."<ref name = "unesco">[http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0007/000769/076995E.pdf UNESCO. General Conference; 24th; Records of the General Conference, 24th session, Paris, 20 October to 20 November 1987, v. 1: Resolutions; 1988]</ref>

=== Criticism ===
In contrast, some Vietnamese who lived through the war hated Ho Chi Minh for bringing chaos to the country. Vietnamese people living outside of Vietnam, commonly known as [[Overseas Vietnamese]], have more hostile opinions of Ho Chi Minh. In particular, the Vietnamese in the U.S., who fled communist rule after 1975, view Hồ as a murderer and traitor who ruined Vietnam by starting a war.<ref>"[http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/21/ho.chi.minh.protest/ Ho Chi Minh poster angers Vietnamese Americans]," ''[[CNN]]''</ref>

==Quotes==
{{Copy section to Wikiquote}}
*"Nothing is more valuable than independence and freedom."
*"I follow only one party: the Vietnamese party."
*"You can kill ten of our men for every one we kill of yours. But even at those odds, you will lose and we will win." - referring to France and America in their wars in Vietnam.
*"It is better to sacrifice everything than to live in slavery!"
*"The Vietnamese people deeply love independence, freedom and peace. But in the face of United States aggression they have risen up, united as one man."
*"We have to win independence at any cost, even if the Truong Son mountains burn."
*"In (Lenin's Theses on the National and Colonial Questions) there were political terms that were difficult to understand. But by reading them again and again finally I was able to grasp the essential part. What emotion, enthusiasm, enlightenment and confidence they communicated to me! I wept for joy. Sitting by myself in my room, I would shout as if I were addressing large crowds: "Dear martyr compatriots! This is what we need, this is our path to liberation!" Since then (the 1920s) I had entire confidence in Lenin, in the Third International!"
*"When the prison doors are opened, the real dragon will fly out."
*"It was patriotism, not communism, that inspired me."
*"Remember, the storm is a good opportunity for the pine and the cypress to show their strength and their stability."
*"My only desire is that all of our Party and people, closely united in struggle, construct a peaceful, unified, independent, democratic and prosperous, and make a valiant contribution to the world Revolution." (Hanoi, [[May 10]] [[1969]].)
*“Better to eat the French dung for 100 years than the Chinese dung for 1,000.”<ref>[http://www.mfh.org/newsandevents/newsletter/MassHumanities/Fall2004/interview.html Mass Humanities: David Halberstam Interview]</ref>

==Notes==
{{reflist|2}}

== Further reading ==
===Essays===
*[[Bernard B. Fall]], ed., 1967. ''Ho Chi Minh on Revolution and War, Selected Writings 1920-1966''. New American Library.
===Biography===
*[[William J. Duiker]]. 2000. ''Ho Chi Minh: A Life''. Theia.
*[[Jean Lacouture]]. 1968. ''Ho Chi Minh: A Political Biography''. Random House.
*[[N. Khac Huyen]]. 1971. ''Vision Accomplished? The Enigma of Ho Chi Minh''. The Macmillan Company.
*[[David Halberstam]]. 1971. ''Ho.'' Rowman & Littlefield.
*Hồ chí Minh toàn tập. NXB chính trị quốc gia
*[[Sophie Quinn-Judge]]. 2003. ''Ho Chi Minh: The missing years''. C. Hurst & Co. ISBN 1-85065-658-4
===The Viet Minh, NLF & the Democratic Republic of Vietnam===
*[[William J. Duiker]]. 1981. ''The Communist Road to Power in Vietnam''. Westview Press.
*[[Hoang Van Chi]]. 1964. ''From colonialism to communism''. Praeger.
*[[Truong Nhu Tang]]. 1986. ''A Viet Cong Memoir''. Vintage.

===The War in Vietnam===
*[[Frances Fitzgerald]]. 1972. ''[[Fire in the Lake: The Vietnamese and the Americans in Vietnam]]''. Little, Brown and Company.

===American Foreign Policy===
*[[Christopher Hitchens]]. 2001. ''[[The Trial of Henry Kissinger]]''. Verso.
*[[Henry A. Kissinger]]. 1979. ''White House Years''. Little, Brown.
*[[Richard Nixon]]. 1987. ''No More Vietnams''. Arbor House Pub Co.

==External links==
{{wikisource author|Ho Chi Minh}}
{{wikiquote}}{{commons|Category:Ho Chi Minh|Ho Chi Minh}}
*[http://www.ealing.gov.uk/services/leisure/local_history/historic_buildings/drayton_court_hotel.html The Drayton Court Hotel]
*[http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0519.html Obituary in ''The New York Times'', [[September 4]] [[1969]]]
*[http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/hochiminh.html TIME 100: Hồ Chí Minh]
*[http://www.cpv.org.vn/english/archives/?topic=14&subtopic=99&leader_topic=39 Hồ Chí Minh's biography]
*[http://www.withfriendship.com/user/tuyen/ho-chi-minh.php Hồ Chí Minh pictures as slides]
*[http://maps.google.com/maps?t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=21.036772,105.834383&spn=0.002333,0.003616&om=1 Satellite photo of the mausoleum on Google Maps]
*[http://acjournal.org/holdings/vol3/Iss3/spec1/decaro.html]
*[http://www.cpv.org.vn/details_e.asp?id=BT2750372918 Final Tribute to Ho Chi Minh from the Central Committee of the Vietnam Workers' Party]
*[http://www.clemson.edu/caah/history/facultypages/EdMoise/commlead.html#ho Bibliography: Writings of Ho Chi Minh, and Books about Him]
{{Vietnamese independence movement}}
{{VietnamPres}}
{{VietnamPMs}}
{{VietnamFirstSecs}}
{{Cold War}}
{{Cold War figures}}



{{Persondata
|NAME= Minh, Hồ Chí
|ALTERNATIVE NAMES=
|SHORT DESCRIPTION=Prime minister, president, [[Democratic Republic of Vietnam|North Vietnam]]
|DATE OF BIRTH=1890-05-19
|PLACE OF BIRTH=[[Nghe An Province|Nghệ An Province]], [[Vietnam]]
|DATE OF DEATH=1969-09-2
|PLACE OF DEATH=[[Hanoi]], [[Vietnam]]
}}
[[Category:Presidents of Vietnam]]
[[Category:Communist rulers]]
[[Category:Vietnamese revolutionaries]]
[[Category:Vietnamese communists]]
[[Category:People of the Vietnam War]]
[[Category:World War II Resistance members]]
[[Category:People of the First Indochina War]]
[[Category:Cold War leaders]]
[[Category:1890 births]]
[[Category:1969 deaths]]
[[Category:Prime Ministers of Vietnam]]

[[ar:هو تشي منه]]
[[br:Hồ Chí Minh]]
[[bg:Хо Ши Мин]]
[[ca:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[cs:Ho Či Min]]
[[cy:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[da:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[de:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[es:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[eo:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[eu:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[fa:هو شی مین]]
[[fr:Hô Chi Minh]]
[[gl:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[ko:호찌민 (사람)]]
[[hi:हो चि मिन्ह्]]
[[hsb:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[hr:Ho Ši Min]]
[[io:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[id:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[is:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[it:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[he:הו צ'י מין]]
[[ka:ხო ში მინი]]
[[lt:Ho Ši Minas]]
[[hu:Ho Si Minh]]
[[ml:ഹോ ചി മിന്‍]]
[[nl:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[ja:ホー・チ・ミン]]
[[no:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[nn:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[pl:Hồ Chí Minh]]
[[pt:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[ro:Ho Şi Min]]
[[ru:Хо Ши Мин]]
[[sa:हो चि मिन्ह]]
[[simple:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[sk:Ho Či Min]]
[[sl:Ho Ši Minh (politik)]]
[[sr:Хо Ши Мин]]
[[fi:Hồ Chí Minh]]
[[sv:Ho Chi Minh]]
[[ta:ஹோ சி மின்]]
[[te:హొ చి మిన్]]
[[th:โฮจิมินห์]]
[[vi:Hồ Chí Minh]]
[[tr:Ho Şi Mingh]]
[[uk:Хо Ши Мін]]
[[zh:胡志明]]

Talk:Lý Long Tường

2008-08-04T14:16:54Z

Rungbachduong: /* Hoax tag */

Lý Long Tường

2008-08-03T19:51:59Z

Rungbachduong: /* Reference */

{{Refimprove|date=August 2008}}
'''Lý Long Tường''' ([[Hán tự]]: [[wikt:李|李]][[wikt:隆|隆]][[wikt:祥|祥]]; 1174-?) was a prince of the [[Lý Dynasty]] of Đại Việt (the name of [[Vietnam]] at that time) and later became Lee of Hwasan, General of Korea. He is an ancestor of one branch of the [[Lee (Korean name)|Lee]] (or Rhee) family today in both South and North Korea.

Lý Long Tường was born in 1174, the seventh son of king [[Ly Anh Tông]] (who reigned from 1138-1175) and queen Lê Mỹ Nga. He was appointed: ''Thái sư Thương trụ quốc'' (the national great tutor), ''Khai phủ nghị đồng tam tư'', ''Thượng thư tả bộc xạ'', ''lĩnh đại đô đốc'', ''tước Kiến Bình vương''.

In [[1225]], Trần Thủ Độ overthrew the Ly Dynasty by introducing his nephew Trần Cảnh to the royal court to serve the incumbent queen Lý Chiêu Hoàng, he then orchestrated a political marriage between Trần Cảnh and Lý Chiêu Hoàng and thereafter forced Ly Chieu Hoang to abdicate in favour of her husband Tran Canh. This marked the end of the Ly Dynasty and the beginning of the Tran Dynasty. With the Tran family having just gained the throne, Tran Thu Do ordered the massacre of the Ly family members and forced all of its descendants to change their surname to Nguyen, and sent them to the northern mountainous areas.

==Life in exile==
In 1226, (Kiến Trung's year of the Second Tran Dynasty of Thái Tông), in order to avoid further bloodshed by the Tran family, Lý Long Tường, together with 6000 [[Mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarin]]s and servants departed from the Thân Phù (now [[Thanh Hóa]] Province) estuary and fled to the [[South China Sea]] in three large ships. They carried with them worships, i.e. the royal crown, royal costumes, and the Thuong phuong bao kiem (heaven royal sword). After a month on the high seas, they were forced to land in [[Taiwan]] due to a typhoon. When Lý Long Tường decided to leave, his son Lý Long Hiền was severely ill and had to stay in Taiwan together with 200 mandarins, followers and servants. Lý Long Tường continued northwards to [[Ongjin, South Hwanghae|Ongjin County]] and then on to [[Haeju]], [[Hwanghae]] in the [[Yellow Sea]]. Legend has it that the Korean king [[Kojong]] of the [[Goryeo]] Dynasty (1192-1259) had dreamt of a grand [[Phoenix (mythology)|phoenix]] flying from the south and landing in his nation. Therefore, he ordered the local government of Hae-ju to give the Vietnamese refugees a red-carpeted welcome and allow them to live in a manor in his country.

Lý Long Tường and his companions started their culture of fishing and breeding. He also opened a Độc thư đường, taught literature (poetry, rhythmical prose and worship rituals) and constructed a school to teach martial arts - the art of war. Thousands of local students joined his two schools.

==Defeat of the Mongol invaders==
In 1232, an army of the [[Mongol Empire]] led by [[Kublai Khan]] launched an [[Mongol invasion of Korea|attack on Korea]] by both sea and land. The troops, using the waterways, attacked Hwang-hae but were defeated by the army and the local inhabitants led by Lý Long Tường. Lý Long Tường always rode a white horse and as a result, was dubbed the "White Horse General."

In 1253, The Mongol army led by the great Khan Mongca launched a second attack on Korea. The Yuan-Mongol army, led by Tang Ji, attacked Hwang-hae overland and by using the waterways. Lý Long Tường, although by then over 70 years old, led the army and the local inhabitants to victory after a five month campaign. As a result of this important triumph, the Korean king renamed Chen-san (鎭山) Hwa-san (花山) and appointed Lý Long Tường Hwa-san a General. The location of the Mongol army surrender was called Soo-jiang-mun (hanja: [[wikt:受|受]][[wikt:降|降]][[wikt:門|門]]; "Gate of Surrender Acceptance"). The Korean king also had a pillar erected here to honour Lý Long Tường. (The pillar can still be seen today).

When Lý Long Tường died, he was buried at the foot of Mount Di A near Panmunjeom (hanja: 板門店). The mountain peak (Kwang-dea) where Lý Long Tường always sat to look southwards and cried is now called the "Peak of Nostalgia" (hanja: [[wikt:望|望]][[wikt:國|國]][[wikt:壇|壇]]).

==Lý Long Tường's descendants in Korea==
General Lee Maeng Woo was a Korean general and the sixth descendant of Lý Long Tường who assisted General Pyun Hong Kee and was killed by the Choseon king. Today, there are some 1500 households in [[North Korea]] and 600 in [[South Korea]] with connections to Lý Long Tường. On November 6, 1958, South Korean president [[Syngman Rhee]] said to the local press when he visited [[Saigon]] (the Republic of Vietnam's capital), that he was a descendant of Lý Long Tường, which is not true because his ancestral homeplace of origin (Pon-gwan in Korean) is Cheon-ju, not Hwa-san. A descendant of Lý Long Tường visited Lý's temple in Dinh Bang village in Bac Ninh Province and has sent money to help in the reconstruction of the temple. He also invested in a local project. At the end of 1995, a report on Lý Long Tường was broadcast by South Korean TV channel [[KBS]].

==Reference==
* {{cite book|title=Modernity and Re-Enchantment|first=Philip|last=Taylor|publisher=Institute of Southeast Asian Studies|year=2007|isbn=9812304401|pages=80}}

==External links==
* {{cite web|url=http://www.vusta.vn/english/news_detail.asp?id=22944|title= There were two Vietnamese Princes becoming famous in Korea |publisher=Vietnam Union of Science and Technology Association|date=02/10/2007|| accessdate = August 2008}}
[[Category:1174 births]]
[[Category:13th century deaths]]
[[Category:Vietnamese people]]
[[Category:Korean people of Vietnamese descent]]
[[Category:Lý Dynasty]]
[[Category:13th century conflicts]]
[[Category:Vietnamese generals]]
[[Category:Military history of the Mongol Empire]]

[[vi:Lý Long Tường]]

Talk:Lý Long Tường

2008-08-03T19:49:26Z

Rungbachduong: /* Hoax tag */

Lý Long Tường

2008-08-03T19:46:36Z

Rungbachduong:

{{Refimprove|date=August 2008}}
'''Lý Long Tường''' ([[Hán tự]]: [[wikt:李|李]][[wikt:隆|隆]][[wikt:祥|祥]]; 1174-?) was a prince of the [[Lý Dynasty]] of Đại Việt (the name of [[Vietnam]] at that time) and later became Lee of Hwasan, General of Korea. He is an ancestor of one branch of the [[Lee (Korean name)|Lee]] (or Rhee) family today in both South and North Korea.

Lý Long Tường was born in 1174, the seventh son of king [[Ly Anh Tông]] (who reigned from 1138-1175) and queen Lê Mỹ Nga. He was appointed: ''Thái sư Thương trụ quốc'' (the national great tutor), ''Khai phủ nghị đồng tam tư'', ''Thượng thư tả bộc xạ'', ''lĩnh đại đô đốc'', ''tước Kiến Bình vương''.

In [[1225]], Trần Thủ Độ overthrew the Ly Dynasty by introducing his nephew Trần Cảnh to the royal court to serve the incumbent queen Lý Chiêu Hoàng, he then orchestrated a political marriage between Trần Cảnh and Lý Chiêu Hoàng and thereafter forced Ly Chieu Hoang to abdicate in favour of her husband Tran Canh. This marked the end of the Ly Dynasty and the beginning of the Tran Dynasty. With the Tran family having just gained the throne, Tran Thu Do ordered the massacre of the Ly family members and forced all of its descendants to change their surname to Nguyen, and sent them to the northern mountainous areas.

==Life in exile==
In 1226, (Kiến Trung's year of the Second Tran Dynasty of Thái Tông), in order to avoid further bloodshed by the Tran family, Lý Long Tường, together with 6000 [[Mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarin]]s and servants departed from the Thân Phù (now [[Thanh Hóa]] Province) estuary and fled to the [[South China Sea]] in three large ships. They carried with them worships, i.e. the royal crown, royal costumes, and the Thuong phuong bao kiem (heaven royal sword). After a month on the high seas, they were forced to land in [[Taiwan]] due to a typhoon. When Lý Long Tường decided to leave, his son Lý Long Hiền was severely ill and had to stay in Taiwan together with 200 mandarins, followers and servants. Lý Long Tường continued northwards to [[Ongjin, South Hwanghae|Ongjin County]] and then on to [[Haeju]], [[Hwanghae]] in the [[Yellow Sea]]. Legend has it that the Korean king [[Kojong]] of the [[Goryeo]] Dynasty (1192-1259) had dreamt of a grand [[Phoenix (mythology)|phoenix]] flying from the south and landing in his nation. Therefore, he ordered the local government of Hae-ju to give the Vietnamese refugees a red-carpeted welcome and allow them to live in a manor in his country.

Lý Long Tường and his companions started their culture of fishing and breeding. He also opened a Độc thư đường, taught literature (poetry, rhythmical prose and worship rituals) and constructed a school to teach martial arts - the art of war. Thousands of local students joined his two schools.

==Defeat of the Mongol invaders==
In 1232, an army of the [[Mongol Empire]] led by [[Kublai Khan]] launched an [[Mongol invasion of Korea|attack on Korea]] by both sea and land. The troops, using the waterways, attacked Hwang-hae but were defeated by the army and the local inhabitants led by Lý Long Tường. Lý Long Tường always rode a white horse and as a result, was dubbed the "White Horse General."

In 1253, The Mongol army led by the great Khan Mongca launched a second attack on Korea. The Yuan-Mongol army, led by Tang Ji, attacked Hwang-hae overland and by using the waterways. Lý Long Tường, although by then over 70 years old, led the army and the local inhabitants to victory after a five month campaign. As a result of this important triumph, the Korean king renamed Chen-san (鎭山) Hwa-san (花山) and appointed Lý Long Tường Hwa-san a General. The location of the Mongol army surrender was called Soo-jiang-mun (hanja: [[wikt:受|受]][[wikt:降|降]][[wikt:門|門]]; "Gate of Surrender Acceptance"). The Korean king also had a pillar erected here to honour Lý Long Tường. (The pillar can still be seen today).

When Lý Long Tường died, he was buried at the foot of Mount Di A near Panmunjeom (hanja: 板門店). The mountain peak (Kwang-dea) where Lý Long Tường always sat to look southwards and cried is now called the "Peak of Nostalgia" (hanja: [[wikt:望|望]][[wikt:國|國]][[wikt:壇|壇]]).

==Lý Long Tường's descendants in Korea==
General Lee Maeng Woo was a Korean general and the sixth descendant of Lý Long Tường who assisted General Pyun Hong Kee and was killed by the Choseon king. Today, there are some 1500 households in [[North Korea]] and 600 in [[South Korea]] with connections to Lý Long Tường. On November 6, 1958, South Korean president [[Syngman Rhee]] said to the local press when he visited [[Saigon]] (the Republic of Vietnam's capital), that he was a descendant of Lý Long Tường, which is not true because his ancestral homeplace of origin (Pon-gwan in Korean) is Cheon-ju, not Hwa-san. A descendant of Lý Long Tường visited Lý's temple in Dinh Bang village in Bac Ninh Province and has sent money to help in the reconstruction of the temple. He also invested in a local project. At the end of 1995, a report on Lý Long Tường was broadcast by South Korean TV channel [[KBS]].

==Reference==
* {{cite book|title=Modernity and Re-Enchantment|first=Philip|last=Taylor|publisher=Institute of Southeast Asian Studies|year=2007|isbn=9812304401|pages=80}}
[[Category:1174 births]]
[[Category:13th century deaths]]
[[Category:Vietnamese people]]
[[Category:Korean people of Vietnamese descent]]
[[Category:Lý Dynasty]]
[[Category:13th century conflicts]]
[[Category:Vietnamese generals]]
[[Category:Military history of the Mongol Empire]]

[[vi:Lý Long Tường]]

Lý Long Tường

2008-08-03T19:46:01Z

Rungbachduong: change hoax => refimprove, disscussed

{{Refimprove}}
{{Unreferenced|date=July 2008}}
'''Lý Long Tường''' ([[Hán tự]]: [[wikt:李|李]][[wikt:隆|隆]][[wikt:祥|祥]]; 1174-?) was a prince of the [[Lý Dynasty]] of Đại Việt (the name of [[Vietnam]] at that time) and later became Lee of Hwasan, General of Korea. He is an ancestor of one branch of the [[Lee (Korean name)|Lee]] (or Rhee) family today in both South and North Korea.

Lý Long Tường was born in 1174, the seventh son of king [[Ly Anh Tông]] (who reigned from 1138-1175) and queen Lê Mỹ Nga. He was appointed: ''Thái sư Thương trụ quốc'' (the national great tutor), ''Khai phủ nghị đồng tam tư'', ''Thượng thư tả bộc xạ'', ''lĩnh đại đô đốc'', ''tước Kiến Bình vương''.

In [[1225]], Trần Thủ Độ overthrew the Ly Dynasty by introducing his nephew Trần Cảnh to the royal court to serve the incumbent queen Lý Chiêu Hoàng, he then orchestrated a political marriage between Trần Cảnh and Lý Chiêu Hoàng and thereafter forced Ly Chieu Hoang to abdicate in favour of her husband Tran Canh. This marked the end of the Ly Dynasty and the beginning of the Tran Dynasty. With the Tran family having just gained the throne, Tran Thu Do ordered the massacre of the Ly family members and forced all of its descendants to change their surname to Nguyen, and sent them to the northern mountainous areas.

==Life in exile==
In 1226, (Kiến Trung's year of the Second Tran Dynasty of Thái Tông), in order to avoid further bloodshed by the Tran family, Lý Long Tường, together with 6000 [[Mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarin]]s and servants departed from the Thân Phù (now [[Thanh Hóa]] Province) estuary and fled to the [[South China Sea]] in three large ships. They carried with them worships, i.e. the royal crown, royal costumes, and the Thuong phuong bao kiem (heaven royal sword). After a month on the high seas, they were forced to land in [[Taiwan]] due to a typhoon. When Lý Long Tường decided to leave, his son Lý Long Hiền was severely ill and had to stay in Taiwan together with 200 mandarins, followers and servants. Lý Long Tường continued northwards to [[Ongjin, South Hwanghae|Ongjin County]] and then on to [[Haeju]], [[Hwanghae]] in the [[Yellow Sea]]. Legend has it that the Korean king [[Kojong]] of the [[Goryeo]] Dynasty (1192-1259) had dreamt of a grand [[Phoenix (mythology)|phoenix]] flying from the south and landing in his nation. Therefore, he ordered the local government of Hae-ju to give the Vietnamese refugees a red-carpeted welcome and allow them to live in a manor in his country.

Lý Long Tường and his companions started their culture of fishing and breeding. He also opened a Độc thư đường, taught literature (poetry, rhythmical prose and worship rituals) and constructed a school to teach martial arts - the art of war. Thousands of local students joined his two schools.

==Defeat of the Mongol invaders==
In 1232, an army of the [[Mongol Empire]] led by [[Kublai Khan]] launched an [[Mongol invasion of Korea|attack on Korea]] by both sea and land. The troops, using the waterways, attacked Hwang-hae but were defeated by the army and the local inhabitants led by Lý Long Tường. Lý Long Tường always rode a white horse and as a result, was dubbed the "White Horse General."

In 1253, The Mongol army led by the great Khan Mongca launched a second attack on Korea. The Yuan-Mongol army, led by Tang Ji, attacked Hwang-hae overland and by using the waterways. Lý Long Tường, although by then over 70 years old, led the army and the local inhabitants to victory after a five month campaign. As a result of this important triumph, the Korean king renamed Chen-san (鎭山) Hwa-san (花山) and appointed Lý Long Tường Hwa-san a General. The location of the Mongol army surrender was called Soo-jiang-mun (hanja: [[wikt:受|受]][[wikt:降|降]][[wikt:門|門]]; "Gate of Surrender Acceptance"). The Korean king also had a pillar erected here to honour Lý Long Tường. (The pillar can still be seen today).

When Lý Long Tường died, he was buried at the foot of Mount Di A near Panmunjeom (hanja: 板門店). The mountain peak (Kwang-dea) where Lý Long Tường always sat to look southwards and cried is now called the "Peak of Nostalgia" (hanja: [[wikt:望|望]][[wikt:國|國]][[wikt:壇|壇]]).

==Lý Long Tường's descendants in Korea==
General Lee Maeng Woo was a Korean general and the sixth descendant of Lý Long Tường who assisted General Pyun Hong Kee and was killed by the Choseon king. Today, there are some 1500 households in [[North Korea]] and 600 in [[South Korea]] with connections to Lý Long Tường. On November 6, 1958, South Korean president [[Syngman Rhee]] said to the local press when he visited [[Saigon]] (the Republic of Vietnam's capital), that he was a descendant of Lý Long Tường, which is not true because his ancestral homeplace of origin (Pon-gwan in Korean) is Cheon-ju, not Hwa-san. A descendant of Lý Long Tường visited Lý's temple in Dinh Bang village in Bac Ninh Province and has sent money to help in the reconstruction of the temple. He also invested in a local project. At the end of 1995, a report on Lý Long Tường was broadcast by South Korean TV channel [[KBS]].

==Reference==
* {{cite book|title=Modernity and Re-Enchantment|first=Philip|last=Taylor|publisher=Institute of Southeast Asian Studies|year=2007|isbn=9812304401|pages=80}}
[[Category:1174 births]]
[[Category:13th century deaths]]
[[Category:Vietnamese people]]
[[Category:Korean people of Vietnamese descent]]
[[Category:Lý Dynasty]]
[[Category:13th century conflicts]]
[[Category:Vietnamese generals]]
[[Category:Military history of the Mongol Empire]]

[[vi:Lý Long Tường]]

Vietnam

2008-08-03T11:18:47Z

Rungbachduong: Japan, not France

{{Infobox Country
|native_name = ''{{lang|vi|Cộng hòa xã hội chủ nghĩa Việt Nam}}''
|conventional_long_name = Socialist Republic of Vietnam
|common_name = Vietnam
|image_flag = Flag of Vietnam.svg
|image_coat = Coat of arms of Vietnam.svg
|symbol_type = Coat of arms
|image_map = Location0fVietnam.svg
|map_caption = Map of Vietnam, see also; [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Atlas_of_Vietnam Atlas of Vietnam]
|national_motto = {{lang|vi|''Độc lập - Tự do - Hạnh phúc''}} "Independence - Freedom - Happiness"
|national_anthem = ''[[Tiến Quân Ca]]'' "Army March" (first verse)
|official_languages = [[Vietnamese language|Vietnamese]]
|demonym = Vietnamese
|capital = [[Hanoi]]
|latd=21 |latm=2 |latNS=N |longd=105 |longm=51 |longEW=E
|largest_city = [[Ho Chi Minh City]]
|leader_title1 = [[Communist Party of Vietnam|General Secretary]]
|leader_name1 = {{lang|vi|[[Nông Đức Mạnh]]}}
|government_type = [[Socialist republic]]{{smallsup|1}}
|leader_title2 = [[President of Vietnam|President]]
|leader_name2 = {{lang|vi|[[Nguyễn Minh Triết]]}}
|leader_title3 = [[Prime Minister of Vietnam|Prime Minister]]
|leader_name3 = {{lang|vi|[[Nguyễn Tấn Dũng]]}}
|sovereignty_type = [[History of Vietnam#Post World War II Period|Independence]]
|sovereignty_note = from [[Empire of Japan|Japan]]
|established_event1 = Date
|established_date1 = [[September 2]] [[1945]]
|established_event2 = Recognized
|established_date2 = 1954
|area_rank = 65th
|area_magnitude = 1,000,000,000
|area_km2 = 331,690
|area_sq_mi = 128,527
|percent_water = 1.3
|population_estimate = 86,116,559
|population_estimate_year = 2008 mid-year
|population_estimate_rank = 13th
|population_census = 76,323,173
|population_census_year = 1999
|population_density_km2 = 253
|population_density_sq_mi = 655
|population_density_rank = 46th
|GDP_PPP_year = 2006
|GDP_PPP = $262.5 billion 
|GDP_PPP_rank = 36th
|GDP_PPP_per_capita = $3,100
|GDP_PPP_per_capita_rank = 123rd
|HDI_year = 2007
|HDI = {{increase}} 0.733
|HDI_rank = 105th
|HDI_category = medium
|Gini = 37
|Gini_year = 2002
|Gini_rank = 59th
|Gini_category = medium
|currency = {{lang|vi|[[Vietnamese đồng|đồng]]}} (₫)
|currency_code = VND
|time_zone = [[UTC+7]]
|utc_offset = +7
|time_zone_DST = No DST
|utc_offset_DST = +7
|cctld = [[.vn]]
|calling_code = 84
|footnote1 = According to the official name and 1992 Constitution.
}}
'''Vietnam''' ({{pronEng|ˌviːɛtˈnɑːm}}; {{lang-vi|Việt Nam}}), officially the '''Socialist Republic of Vietnam''' ({{lang-vi|Cộng hòa xã hội chủ nghĩa Việt Nam}}), is the easternmost [[country]] on the [[Indochina]] [[Peninsula]] in [[Southeast Asia]]. It is bordered by [[People's Republic of China|China]] to the north, [[Laos]] to the northwest, [[Cambodia]] to the southwest, and the [[South China Sea]] to the east. With a [[population]] of over 86 million, Vietnam is the [[list of countries by population|13th]] most populous country in the world.

Vietnam was under [[China|Chinese]] control for a thousand years before becoming a nation-state in the 10th century. Successive dynasties flourished along with geographic and political expansion deeper into Southeast Asia, until it was colonized by the French in the mid-19th century. Efforts to resist the French eventually led to their expulsion from the country in the mid-20th century, leaving a nation divided politically into two countries. Bitter fighting between the two sides continued during the [[Vietnam War]], ending with a [[communism|communist]] victory in 1975.

Emerging from a long and bitter war, the war-ravaged nation was politically isolated. The government’s centrally-planned economic decisions hindered post-war reconstruction and its treatment of the losing side engendered more resentment than reconciliation. In 1986, it instituted economic and political reforms and began a path towards international reintegration. By 2000, it had established diplomatic relations with most nations. Its economic growth had been among the highest in the world in the past decade. These efforts culminated in Vietnam joining the [[World Trade Organization]] in 2007 and its successful bid to become a non-permanent member of the [[United Nations Security Council]] in 2008.

== Etymology ==
Through the centuries, Vietnam has been called by many different names: [[Van Lang|Văn Lang]] during the [[Hùng Vương]] Dynasty, Âu Lạc during the [[An Dương Vương]] dynasty, Van Xuan during the Anterior Lý Dynasty, [[Đại Cồ Việt]] during the [[Dinh Dynasty|Đinh dynasty]] and [[Anterior Lê Dynasty]]. Starting in 1054, Vietnam was called Đại Việt (Great Viet). During the [[Hồ Dynasty]], Vietnam was called [[Đại Ngu]] ([[Hán tự]]: [[wikt:太|太]][[wikt:虞|虞]]). Then, in 1804, King [[Gia Long]] planned to use the name of Nam Việt for Vietnam then changed it to Việt Nam. In English, the two syllables were written into one: Vietnam. From 1839 to 1945, Emperor [[Minh Mạng]] renamed Việt Nam to Đại Nam (literally "Great South").

The name Việt Nam had been used for this country before it became the official name in "Dư địa chí" of [[Nguyễn Trãi]] written in 1435 and perhaps even before. "Việt" is the name of the largest ethnic group in Vietnam: the Kinh (người Kinh) and "Nam" means "the South", affirming Vietnam's sovereignty from China (usually called "North country" by the Vietnamese).

== History ==

{{main|History of Vietnam}}

=== Pre-Dynastic era ===
The area now known as Vietnam has been inhabited since [[Paleolithic]] times, and some archaeological sites in [[Thanh Hoa Province]] purportedly date back several thousand years. Archaeologists link the beginnings of Vietnamese civilization to the late [[Neolithic]], [[Early Bronze Age]], Phung-nguyen culture, which was centered in [[Vinh Phuc Province]] of contemporary Vietnam from about 2000 to 1400 [[Common Era|BCE]]. By about 1200 [[Common Era|BCE]], the development of wet-[[rice]] cultivation and bronze casting in the [[Ma River]] and [[Red River (Vietnam)|Red River]] plains led to the development of the [[Dong Son culture]], notable for its elaborate bronze drums. The bronze weapons, tools, and drums of Dongsonian sites show a Southeast Asian influence that indicates an indigenous origin for the bronze-casting technology. Many small, ancient [[copper]] [[Mining|mine]] sites have been found in northern Vietnam. Some of the similarities between the Dong Sonian sites and other Southeast Asian sites include the presence of boat-shaped coffins and burial jars, stilt dwellings, and evidence of the customs of [[Betel nut#Betel chewing|betel-nut-chewing]] and teeth-blackening.

The legendary [[Hồng Bàng Dynasty]] of the [[Hùng Vương|Hùng kings]] is considered by many Vietnamese as the first Vietnamese state, known as Văn Lang. In 257 BCE, the last Hùng king lost to Thục Phán, who consolidated the Lạc Việt tribes with his Âu Việt tribes, forming Âu Lạc and proclaiming himself [[An Dương Vương]]. In 207 BCE, a Chinese general named [[Zhao Tuo]] defeated An Dương Vương and consolidated Âu Lạc into [[Nanyue]]. In 111 BCE, the Chinese [[Han Dynasty]] consolidated Nanyue into their empire.

For the next thousand years, Vietnam was mostly under Chinese rule.<ref>[http://asia.msu.edu/seasia/Vietnam/History/chinesecolonization.html Chinese Colonization (200BC - 938AD)]</ref> Early independence movements such as those of the [[Trung Sisters|Trưng Sisters]] and of [[Trieu Thi Trinh|Lady Triệu]] were only briefly successful. It was independent as Vạn Xuân under the Anterior Ly Dynasty between 544 and 602. By the early 10th century, Vietnam had gained autonomy, but not independence, under the Khúc family.

=== Dynastic era ===

In 938 [[Common Era|CE]], a Vietnamese lord named [[Ngo Quyen|Ngô Quyền]] defeated Chinese forces at the [[Battle of Bach Dang River (938)|Bạch Đằng River]] and gained independence after 10 centuries under Chinese control. Renamed as Đại Việt, the nation went through a golden era during the [[Lý Dynasty|Lý]] and [[Trần Dynasty|Trần]] Dynasties. During the rule of the Trần Dynasty, Đại Việt repelled three [[Mongol invasions of Vietnam|Mongol invasions]].<ref>[http://countrystudies.us/vietnam/9.htm The Tran Dynasty and the Defeat of the Mongols]</ref> [[Buddhism in Vietnam|Buddhism]] flourished and became the state religion. Following the brief [[Hồ Dynasty]], Vietnamese independence was momentarily interrupted by the Chinese [[Ming Dynasty]], but was restored by [[Le Loi|Lê Lợi]], the founder of the [[Lê Dynasty]]. Vietnam reached its zenith in the Lê Dynasty of the 15th century, especially during the reign of Emperor [[Le Thanh Tong|Lê Thánh Tông]] (1460–1497). Between the 11th and 18th centuries, the Vietnamese expanded southward in a process known as {{lang|vi|nam tiến}} (''southward expansion''). They eventually conquered the kingdom of [[Champa]] and part of the [[Khmer Empire]].<ref>[http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Article/549713 The Kingdom of Champa]</ref><ref>[http://countrystudies.us/vietnam/11.htm The Le Dynasty and Southward Expansion]</ref>

Towards the end of the Lê Dynasty, civil strife engulfed much of Vietnam. First, the Chinese-supported [[Mạc Dynasty]] challenged the Lê Dynasty's power. After the Mạc Dynasty was defeated, the Lê Dynasty was reinstalled, but with no actual power. Power was divided between the [[Trịnh Lords]] in the North and the [[Nguyễn Lords]] in the South, who engaged in a [[Trịnh-Nguyễn War|civil war]] for more than four decades. During this time, the Nguyễn expanded southern Vietnam into the [[Mekong Delta]], annexing the [[Champa]] in the central highlands and the Khmer land in the Mekong. The civil war ended when the [[Tay Son|Tây Sơn]] brothers defeated both and established their new dynasty. However, their rule did not last long and they were defeated by the remnants of the Nguyễn Lords led by [[Gia Long|Nguyen Anh]] with the help of the French. Nguyen Anh unified Vietnam, and established the [[Nguyễn Dynasty]], ruling under the name Gia Long.

=== Western Colonial era ===
{{main|Sino-French War|Union of Indochina|Empire of Vietnam}}
Vietnam's independence was gradually eroded by [[French colonial empires|France]] in a series of military conquests from 1859 until 1885 when the enitre country became part of [[French Indochina]]. The French administration imposed significant political and cultural changes on Vietnamese society. A Western-style system of modern education was developed, and [[Christianity]] was introduced into Vietnamese society. Developing a [[plantation economy]] to promote the exports of [[tobacco]], [[indigo dye|indigo]], [[tea]] and [[coffee]], the French largely ignored increasing calls for self-government and civil rights. A nationalist political movement soon emerged, with leaders such as [[Phan Boi Chau]], [[Phan Chu Trinh]], [[Phan Dinh Phung]], Emperor [[Ham Nghi]] and [[Ho Chi Minh]] calling for independence. However, the French maintained control of their colonies until [[World War II]], when the [[Pacific war|Japanese war in the Pacific]] triggered the invasion of [[French Indochina]] in 1941. This event was preceded by the establishment of the [[Vichy France|Vichy French]] administration, a puppet state of [[Nazi Germany]] then ally of the [[Japanese Empire]]. The natural resources of Vietnam were exploited for the purposes of the Japanese Empire's military campaigns into the [[British colonial empire|British Indochinese colonies]] of [[Burma]], the [[Malay Peninsula]] and [[India]].

=== First Indochina War ===
{{main|First Indochina War|Democratic Republic of Vietnam|State of Vietnam|State of Vietnam referendum, 1955}}
In 1941, the Viet Minh — a communist and nationalist liberation movement — emerged under [[Ho Chi Minh]], to seek independence for Vietnam from France as well as to oppose the Japanese occupation. Following the military defeat of Japan and the fall of its [[Empire of Vietnam]] in August 1945, Viet Minh occupied Hanoi and proclaimed a provisional government, which asserted independence on September 2.<ref>http://coombs.anu.edu.au/%7Evern/van_kien/declar.html Declaration of Independence, Democratic Republic of Vietnam] - Vietnam Documents</ref> In the same year the [[Provisional French Republic]] sent the [[French Far East Expeditionary Corps]], which was originally created to fight the Japanese occupation forces, in order to pacify the liberation movement and to restore French rule. On [[November 20]], [[1946]], triggered by the [[Haiphong Incident]], the [[First Indochina War]] between Viet Minh and the French forces ensued, lasting until [[July 20]], [[1954]].

Despite fewer losses—Expeditionary Corps suffered 1/3 the casualties of the Chinese and Soviet-backed Viet Minh—during the course of the war, the U.S.-backed French and [[Vietnamese National Army|Vietnamese loyalist]]s eventually suffered a major strategic setback at the [[Siege of Dien Bien Phu]], which allowed Ho Chi Minh to negotiate a ceasefire with a favorable position at the ongoing [[Geneva Conference (1954)|Geneva conference]] of 1954. Colonial administration ended as French Indochina was dissolved. According to the [[Geneva Conference (1954)|Geneva Agreements]] the country was [[Partition of Vietnam|partitioned]] at the [[Vietnamese Demilitarized Zone|17th parallel]]. Ho Chi Minh's Democratic Republic of Vietnam ruled the [[North Vietnam|north]], while Emperor [[Bao Dai]]'s [[State of Vietnam]] ruled the [[South Vietnam|south]]. This was intended to be temporary, pending an election in 1956, which never took place. Instead, State of Vietnam Prime Minister [[Ngo Dinh Diem]] toppled Bao Dai in a [[State of Vietnam referendum, 1955|fraudulent referendum]] organised by his brother [[Ngo Dinh Nhu]] and proclaimed himself president of the Republic of Vietnam.

=== Vietnam War ===
{{main|Vietnam War|North Vietnam|South Vietnam}}
The [[Communist]]-held [[North Vietnam|Democratic Republic of Vietnam]] was opposed by the [[United States|US]]-supported [[South Vietnam|Republic of Vietnam]]. Disagreements soon emerged over the organizing of elections and reunification, and the [[Viet Cong]] began a guerrilla campaign in the late 1950s, assisted by North Vietnam, hoping to bring South Vietnam under communist rule. To support South Vietnam's struggle against the communist insurgency, the US began increasing its contribution of military advisers. US forces became embroiled in combat operations in 1965 and at there peak they numbered more than 500,000. North Vietnamese forces unsuccessfully attempted to overrun the South during the 1968 [[Tet Offensive]] and the war soon spread into neighboring Laos and Cambodia, in both of which the United States bombed Communist forces supplying the North Vietnamese Army.

With its own casualties mounting, the U.S. began transferring combat roles to the South Vietnamese military in a process the U.S. called {{lang|en|[[Vietnamization]]}}. The effort had mixed results. The [[Paris Peace Accords]] of [[January 27]], [[1973]], formally recognized the sovereignty of both sides. Under the terms of the accords all American combat troops were withdrawn by [[March 29]], [[1973]]. Limited fighting continued, but all major fighting ended until the North once again sent troops to the South during the Spring of 1975, culminating in the [[Fall of Saigon]] on [[April 30]], [[1975]]. South Vietnam briefly became the [[Republic of South Vietnam]], under military occupation by North Vietnam, before being officially integrated with the North under communist rule as the ''Socialist Republic of Vietnam'' on [[July 2]] [[1976]].

=== Postwar ===
Upon taking control, the Vietnamese communists banned all other political parties, arrested public servants and military personnel of the Republic of Vietnam and sent them to [[reeducation camp]]s. The government also embarked on a mass campaign of [[collectivization]] of farms and factories. Reconstruction of the war-ravaged country was slow, and serious humanitarian and economic problems confronted the communist regime. Millions of people [[boat people|fled the country]] in crudely-built boats, creating an international humanitarian crisis.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.unhcr.org/publ/PUBL/3ebf9bad0.pdf |author=[[United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees]] |title=The State of The World's Refugees 2000 - Chapter 4: Flight from Indochina |accessdate=2007-04-06 }}: Three million fled Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos combined; close to a million Vietnamese were helped by the UNHCR.</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-69-524/life_society/boat_people/ |author=[[Canadian Broadcasting Corporation]] |title=Boat people: A Refugee Crisis |accessdate=2007-04-06 }}</ref> In 1978, the Vietnamese army invaded Cambodia (sparking the [[Cambodian-Vietnamese War]]) to remove the [[Khmer Rouge]] from power. This action worsened relations with China, which launched a brief incursion into northern Vietnam (the [[Sino-Vietnamese War]]) in 1979. This conflict caused Vietnam to rely even more heavily on Soviet economic and military aid.

=== Đổi Mới ===
In a historic shift in 1986, the Communist Party of Vietnam implemented [[free-market]] reforms known as {{lang|vi|[[Doi Moi|Đổi Mới]]}} (''renovation''). With the authority of the state remaining unchallenged, private ownership of farms and companies, deregulation and foreign investment were encouraged. The [[economy of Vietnam]] has achieved rapid growth in agricultural and industrial production, construction and housing, exports, and foreign investment. It is now one of the fastest growing [[Vietnam#Economy|economies]] in the world.

== Government and politics ==
{{main|Politics of Vietnam}}
[[Image:vietnam national convention center.jpg|thumb|350px|right| [[Vietnam National Convention Center]] ]]
The Socialist Republic of Vietnam is a [[single-party state]]. A new [[Constitution of Vietnam|state constitution]] was approved in April 1992, replacing the 1975 version. The central role of the Communist Party was reasserted in all organs of government, politics and society. Only political organizations affiliated with or endorsed by the Communist Party are permitted to contest elections. These include the [[Vietnamese Fatherland Front]], worker and trade unionist parties. Although the state remains officially committed to [[socialism]] as its defining creed, the ideology's importance has substantially diminished since the 1990s. The [[President of Vietnam]] is the titular [[head of state]] and the nominal [[commander in chief]] of the [[military of Vietnam]], chairing the Council on National Defense and Security. The [[Prime Minister of Vietnam]] [[Nguyen Tan Dung]] is the [[head of government]], presiding over a [[Council of Ministers of Vietnam|council of ministers]] composed of 3 deputy prime ministers and the heads of 26 ministries and commissions.

The [[National Assembly of Vietnam]] is the [[unicameral]] [[legislature]] of the government, composed of 498 members. It is superior to both the executive and judicial branches. All members of the council of ministers are derived from the National Assembly. The [[Supreme People's Court of Vietnam]], which is the highest [[court of appeal]] in the nation, is also answerable to the National Assembly. Beneath the Supreme People's Court stand the [[Provincial Municipal Courts of Vietnam|provincial municipal courts]] and the [[Local Courts of Vietnam|local courts]]. [[Military Courts of Vietnam|Military courts]] are also a powerful branch of the judiciary with special jurisdiction in matters of national security. All organs of Vietnam's government are controlled by the Communist Party. Most government appointees are members of the party. The General Secretary of the Communist Party is perhaps one of the most important political leaders in the nation, controlling the party's national organization and state appointments, as well as setting policy.

The [[Vietnam People's Army]] is the official name for the combined military services of Vietnam, which is organized along the lines of China's [[People's Liberation Army]]. The VPA is further subdivided into the Vietnamese People's Ground Forces (including Strategic Rear Forces and Border Defense Forces), the [[Vietnam People's Navy]], the [[Vietnam People's Air Force]] and the [[coast guard]]. Through Vietnam's recent history, the VPA has actively been involved in Vietnam's workforce to develop the economy of Vietnam, in order to coordinate national defense and the economy. The VPA is involved in such areas as industry, agriculture, forestry, fishery and telecommunications. The total strength of the VPA is close to 500,000 officers and enlisted members. The government also organizes and maintains provincial militias and police forces. The role of the military in public life has steadily been reduced since the 1980s.

==Subdivisions==

{{main|Provinces of Vietnam|Districts of Vietnam}}

[[Image:VietnameseProvincesMap.png|thumb|200px|Provinces of Vietnam]]

Vietnam is divided into '''58 [[province]]s''' (known in [[Vietnamese language|Vietnamese]] as ''tỉnh'', from the Chinese [[wikt:省|省]], shěng). There are also '''5 centrally-controlled municipalities''' existing at the same level as provinces (''thành phố trực thuộc trung ương'').

The provinces are further subdivided into [[Provincial city|provincial municipalities]] (''thành phố trực thuộc tỉnh''), [[township]]s (''thị xã'') and [[county|counties]] (''huyện''), and then, subdivided into [[town]]s (''thị trấn'') or [[Communes of Vietnam|commune]]s (''xã'').

The centrally-controlled municipalities are subdivided into [[district]]s (''quận'') and counties, and then, subdivided into [[Ward (country subdivision)|wards]] (''phường'').

== Geography and climate ==
{{main|Geography of Vietnam}}
Vietnam is approximately 331,688 km² (128,066 [[square mile|sq mi]]) in area (not including Hoang Sa and Truong Sa islands), larger than Italy and almost the size of Germany. The perimeter of the country running along its international boundaries is 4,639 km (2,883 mi). The topography consists of hills and densely forested mountains, with level land covering no more than 20%. Mountains account for 40% of the area, with smaller hills accounting for 40% and tropical forests 42%. The northern part of the country consists mostly of highlands and the [[Red River Delta]]. [[Fan Si Pan|Phan Xi Păng]], located in [[Lao Cai province|Lào Cai province]], is the highest mountain in Vietnam at 3,143 m (10,312 ft). The south is divided into coastal lowlands, [[Annamite Chain]] peaks, extensive forests, and poor soil. Comprising five relatively flat plateaus of basalt soil, the highlands account for 16% of the country's arable land and 22% of its total forested land. [[Image:Ha Long Bay with boats.JPG|thumb|300px|right|[[Ha Long Bay]], a [[World Heritage Site]]]]

The delta of the Red River (also known as the {{lang|vi|Sông Hồng}}), a flat, triangular region of 15,000 square kilometers<ref>[http://xttm.agroviet.gov.vn/en/newsletter/2005/September.asp Agroviet Newsletter September 2005]</ref>, is smaller but more intensely developed and more densely populated than the Mekong River Delta. Once an inlet of the Gulf of Tonkin, it has been filled in by the enormous alluvial deposits of the rivers over a period of millennia, and it advances one hundred meters into the Gulf annually. The Mekong delta, covering about 40,000 square kilometers, is a low-level plain not more than three meters above sea level at any point and criss-crossed by a maze of canals and rivers. So much sediment is carried by the Mekong's various branches and tributaries that the delta advances sixty to eighty meters into the sea every year.

Because of differences in latitude and the marked variety of topographical relief, the climate tends to vary considerably from place to place. During the winter or dry season, extending roughly from November to April, the monsoon winds usually blow from the northeast along the China coast and across the Gulf of Tonkin, picking up considerable moisture; consequently the winter season in most parts of the country is dry only by comparison with the rainy or summer season. The average annual temperature is generally higher in the plains than in the mountains and plateaus and in the south than in the north. Temperatures in the southern plains (Ho Chi Minh City and the Mekong Delta) varies less, going between 21 and 28 degree Celsius (70 and 82.5 °F) over the course of a year. The seasons in the mountains and plateaus and in the north are much more dramatic, and temperatures may vary from 5 degree Celsius (41 °F) in December and January to 37 degree Celsius (98.6 °F) in July and August.

== Nature ==
[[Image:Mui Ne4.jpg|thumb|left|260px|Sunset in the fishing village of [[Mui Ne]] on the south-east coast]]
Vietnam has two World's Natural Heritage sites: [[Halong Bay]] and [[Phong Nha-Ke Bang National Park]] and 6 World's [[biosphere reserve]]s including: [[Can Gio Mangrove Forest]], [[Cat Tien National Park|Cat Tien]], [[Cat Ba National Park|Cat Ba]], [[U Minh Thuong National Park|Kien Giang]], [[Red River Delta]], [[Western Nghe An]].

=== Biodiversity ===
[[Image:Pseudoryx nghetinhensis.PNG|thumbnail|right|250px| [[Saola]]]]
Vietnam is in the [[Indomalaya ecozone]].

According to chapter 1 in National Environmental Present Condition Report 2005- Biodiversity Subject of Vietnam Environment Protection Agency,<ref>[http://www.nea.gov.vn/HTMT_ddsh05.htm Báo cáo Hiện trạng môi trường quốc gia 2005] - (Vietnamese)</ref> in [[species diversity]], Vietnam is one of 25 countries having high level in biodiversity all over the world, is ranked 16th of biologically diverse level (having 16% world's species) (page 9). 15,986 flora was identified of which 10% was endemic (p9). Statistic says that there are 307 [[nematodes]], 200 [[oligochaeta]], 145 [[acarina]], 113 [[springtails]], 7750 [[insects]], 260 [[reptiles]], 120 [[amphibians]], 840 [[birds]] and 310 [[mammals]] of which 100 birds and 78 mammals are endemic (p9,10). Vietnam also have 1438 fresh water [[microalgae]] (9,6% species in the world) (Table 1.2, p9). It is defined that there are 794 aquatic [[invertebrate]] and 2458 sea fish (p10,11). In recent years, there have been 13 genera, 222 species, 30 taxa of flora newly described and 6 mammals have been discovered such as the [[saola]], [[giant muntjac]], [[Edwards's Pheasant]], [[Tonkin Snub-nosed Langur]], [[livistona halongensis]], [[geothelphusa vietnamica]], etc (frame 1.4, p11,12). In agricultural [[genetic diversity]], Vietnam is one of 12 world's original cultivar centers (p13). Vietnam National Cultivar Gene Bank is preserving 12,300 cultivars of 115 species (p14).

In chapter 4 of that report, it is said that Vietnam government spent 49.07 million [[USD]] for biodiversity in 2004 (p71) and have established 126 conservation areas including 28 [[List of national parks of Vietnam|national parks]] (p73).

== Economy ==
{{main|Economy of Vietnam}}

[[Image:500000t.jpg|thumbnail|right|300px| Vietnamese currency: 500 000 [[VND]]]]

The Vietnam War destroyed much of the economy of Vietnam. Upon taking power, the Government created a [[planned economy]] for the nation. [[Collectivization]] of farms, factories and economic capital was implemented, and millions of people were put to work in government programs. For a decade, united Vietnam's economy was plagued with inefficiency and corruption in state programs, poor quality and underproduction and restrictions on economic activities and trade. It also suffered from the trade embargo from the United States and most of Europe after the Vietnam War. Subsequently, the trade partners of the Communist blocs began to erode. In 1986, the Sixth Party Congress introduced significant economic reforms with [[market economy]] elements as part of a broad economic reform package called "[[doi moi|đổi mới]]" (''Renovation''). Private ownership was encouraged in industries, commerce and agriculture. Vietnam achieved around 8% annual [[Gross domestic product|GDP]] growth from 1990 to 1997 and continued at around 7% from 2000 to 2005, making it the world's second-fastest growing economy. Simultaneously, [[foreign investment]] grew threefold and [[savings|domestic savings]] quintupled. [[Image:Tam Coc - Ninh Binh.JPG|thumb|left|300px|Rice farming in [[Ninh Binh Province]]]]Manufacturing, [[information technology]] and high-tech industries form a large and fast-growing part of the national economy. Vietnam is a relative new-comer to the oil business, but today it is the third-largest oil producer in Southeast Asia with output of {{convert|400000|oilbbl/d|m3/d}}. Vietnam is one of Asia's most open economies: two-way trade is around 160% of GDP, more than twice the ratio for China and over four times India's.<ref>[http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/11/13/8393174/index.htm Vietnam Vrooooom: Asia's second-fastest-growing economy takes the global stage.] - [[CNN]] Money</ref>

Vietnam is still a relatively poor country with an annual GDP of US$280.2 billion at purchasing power parity (2006 estimate)<ref>Source for GDP: Economist Intelligence unit</ref>. This translates to a purchasing power of about US$3,300 per capita (or US$726 per capita at the market exchange rate). Inflation rate was estimated at 7.5% per year in 2006. Deep poverty, defined as a percent of the population living under $1 per day, has declined significantly and is now smaller than that of China, India, and the Philippines.
<ref>[https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vm.html Economy of Vietnam] - CIA World FactBook</ref>

As a result of several [[land reform]] measures, Vietnam is now the largest producer of [[cashew]] nuts with a one-third global share and second largest [[rice]] exporter in the world after [[Thailand]]. Vietnam has the highest percent of land use for permanent crops, 6.93%, of any nation in the Greater Mekong Subregion. Besides rice, key exports are [[coffee]], [[tea]], [[rubber]], and fishery products. However, agriculture's share of economic output has declined, falling as a share of GDP from 42% in 1989 to 20% in 2006, as production in other sectors of the economy has risen. According to the CIA World Fact Book, the unemployment rate in Vietnam is 5.4% for 2007. Among other steps taken in the process of transitioning to a market economy, Vietnam in July 2006 updated its intellectual property legislation to comply with [[TRIPS]]. Vietnam was accepted into the [[World Trade Organization|WTO]] on November 7, 2006. Vietnam's chief trading partners include Japan, [[Australia]], ASEAN countries, the U.S. and Western European countries.

== Military ==
[[Image:Ha Tien coast guard.JPG|right|thumb|Coast guard station in [[Hà Tiên]]]]
{{main|Military of Vietnam}}
''Quân Đội Nhân Dân Việt Nam'', The Vietnam People's Army (VPA), is the official collective term for the [[armed forces]] of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam. The VPA consists of the Vietnam People's [[Ground Forces]], Vietnam People's [[Navy]], Vietnam People's [[Air Force]], and Vietnam People's [[Coast Guard]].

== Transport ==
[[Image:Hai Van Pass Vietnam.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Hai Van Pass.]]
{{main|Transportation in Vietnam}}
The modern transport network of Vietnam was originally developed under French rule for the purpose of raw materials harvesting, and reconstructed and extensively modernized following the Vietnam War. The road system is the most popular form of transportation in the country. Vietnam’s road system includes national roads administered by the central level; provincial roads managed by the provincial level; district roads managed by the district level; urban roads managed by cities and towns; and commune roads managed by the commune level.

[[Bicycle]]s, motor scooters and motorcycles remain the most popular forms of road transport in Vietnam's cities, towns, and villages although the number of privately-owned automobiles is also on the rise, especially in the larger cities. Public bus operated by private companies is the main long distance travel means for many people. Traffic congestion is a serious problem in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City as the cities' roads struggle to cope with the booming numbers of automobiles. There are also more than 17,000 kilometers of navigable [[waterway]]s, which play a significant role in rural life owing to the extensive network of rivers in Vietnam.

The nation has seven developed ports and harbors at [[Cam Ranh]], [[Da Nang]], [[Hai Phong]], [[Ho Chi Minh City]], [[Hong Gai]] (Halong City), [[Qui Nhon]], and [[Nha Trang]].

== Demography ==
{{main|Demography of Vietnam}}

=== Population ===
{{main|Ethnic groups in Vietnam}}
[[Image:FlowerHmong Vietnam (pixinn.net).jpg|right|thumb|Close portrait of a [[Hmong people|Hmong]] woman]]
Recent census estimates the population of Vietnam at beyond 84 million. [[Vietnamese people]], also called "Viet" or "Kinh", account for 86.2 percent of the population. Their population is concentrated in the [[alluvial fans|alluvial deltas]] and coastal plains of the country. A homogeneous social and ethnic majority group, the Kinh exert political and economic control. There are more than 54 ethnic minorities throughout the country, but the Kinh are purveyors of the dominant culture. Most ethnic minorities, such as the [[Muong]], a closely related ethnic of the Kinh, are found mostly in the highlands covering two-thirds of the territory. The Hoa (ethnic Chinese) and [[Khmer Krom]] are mainly lowlanders. The largest ethnic minority groups include the Hmong, Dao, Tay, Thai, and Nung.

=== Languages ===
{{main|Vietnamese language}}

The people of Vietnam speak [[Vietnamese language|Vietnamese]] as a native language. In its early history, Vietnamese writing used [[Chinese characters]]. In the 13th century, the Vietnamese developed their own set of characters called [[Chu Nom|Chữ nôm]]. The celebrated epic {{lang|vi|[[The Tale of Kieu|Đoạn trường tân thanh]]}} ({{lang|vi|Truyện Kiều}} or {{lang|en|The Tale of Kieu}}) by [[Nguyen Du|Nguyễn Du]] was written in Chữ nôm. During the French colonial period, [[Quoc Ngu|Quốc ngữ]], the romanized Vietnamese alphabet used for spoken Vietnamese, which was developed in 17th century by [[Jesuit]] [[Alexandre De Rhodes]] and several other [[Roman Catholic|Catholic]] [[missionary|missionaries]], became popular and brought literacy to the masses.

Various other languages are spoken by several minority groups in Vietnam. The most common of these are [[Tai languages|Tày]], [[Muong language|Mường]], [[Khmer language|Khmer]], [[Chinese language|Chinese]], [[Nung language|Nùng]], and [[Hmong language|H'Mông]]. The [[French language]], a legacy of colonial rule, is still spoken by some older Vietnamese as a second language, but is losing its popularity. Vietnam is also a full member of the [[Francophonie]]. [[Russian language|Russian]] — and to a much lesser extent [[German language|German]], [[Czech language|Czech]], or [[Polish language|Polish]] — is sometimes known among those whose families had ties with the [[Soviet bloc]]. In recent years, [[English language|English]] is becoming more popular as a second language. English study is obligatory in most schools. [[Chinese language|Chinese]] and [[Japanese language|Japanese]] have also become more popular.

=== Religions ===
{{main|Religion in Vietnam}}
{{bar box
| title=Vietnam religiosity
| titlebar=#ddd
| left1=religion
| right1=percent
| float=left
| bars=
{{bar percent|Buddhism|yellow|85}}
{{bar percent|Christianity|blue|8}}
{{bar percent|Caodaism|violet|3}}
{{bar percent|Others|gray|4}}
}}

[[Image:One Pillar Pagoda Hanoi Vietnam.jpg|thumb|right|300px|"One pillar" pagoda, [[Hanoi]] capital.]]
[[Image:Cao Dai My Tho.JPG|right|thumb|300px|[[Cao Dai]] temple in [[My Tho]]]]

For much of Vietnamese history, [[Mahayana Buddhism]], [[Taoism]] and [[Confucianism]] have strongly influenced the religious and cultural life of the people. About 85% of Vietnamese identify with Buddhism even though they do not practice on a regular basis<ref>[http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/4130.htm US Department of State: Background Note: Vietnam]</ref><ref>[http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_buddhist.html The Largest Buddhist Communities] - adherents.com. This quotes a much lower figure than the 85% quoted by the US Department of State</ref><ref>[http://www.apecdoc.org/Vietnm/religion_belief.htm APEC - Vietnam]</ref><ref>[http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Asia-and-Oceania/Vietnam-RELIGIONS.html Encyclopedia of the Nations - Vietnam]</ref><ref>[http://www.vietnam-holidays.co.uk/aboutvietnam/religion.htm Vietnam travel and holidays - Vietnam's religions]</ref><ref>[http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Den/5908/religion/religioninvn.html Religion of the Vietnamese]</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=Vietnam: International Religious Freedom Report 2007 |url=http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2007/90159.htm |publisher=[[U.S. Department of State]]: [[Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor]] |date=2007-09-14 |accessdate=2008-01-21}}</ref>. About 8% of the population are Christians (about 6 million Roman Catholics and less than 1 million Protestants, census of 2007). Christianity was introduced first by the Portuguese and the Dutch traders in the 16th and 17th centuries, then further propagated under the French colonists in the 19th and 20th centuries, and to a lesser extent, by American Protestant missionaries during the presence of American forces during the 1960s and early 70's. The largest Protestant churches are the Evangelical Church of Vietnam and the Montagnard Evangelical Church.

Vietnam has great reservation towards Roman Catholicism. This mistrust originated during the French colonial time when some Catholics collaborated with the French colonists as espionage agents and militiamen to suppress the Vietnamese independence movement. Furthermore, the Church's teaching regarding communism made it an unwelcome counterforce to communist rule. Relationship with the Vatican, however, has improved in recent years. Membership of [[Sunni Islam|Sunni]] and [[Bashi]] [[Islam]] is usually accredited to the ethnic [[Cham people|Cham]] minority, but there are also a few ethnic Vietnamese adherents of Islam in the southwest. The total number of Muslims remains very small nevertheless. The communist government has from time to time been criticized for its religious restrictions although it has categorically denied that such restrictions exist today.

The vast majority of Vietnamese people of Asian religions practice [[Ancestor Worship]], although this may not be strictly considered a religion.

From the articles of [[Religions by country]], [[Religion in Vietnam]] and [[Demographics of Vietnam]]; 85% is nominal/secular Buddhists including predominant 83% [[East Asian Buddhist]] or "Triple religion" (80% of people are worship the mixture of [[Mahayana Buddhism]] mainly, [[Taoism]], [[Confucianism]] with [[Ancestor Worship]]; 2% [[Hoa Hao|Hòa Hảo]] with 1% of some new Vietnamese-Buddhist sects as Tứ Ân Hiếu Nghĩa, Pure Land Buddhist, etc) and 2% [[Theravada Buddhism]], mainly among [[Khmer people]] but the census of Government showed that only over 10 million people have taken [[Refuge (Buddhism)|refuge]] in the [[Three Jewels]]<ref>[http://www.vietnamembassy-usa.org/learn_about_vietnam/culture/beliefs_and_religions/ Embassy of Vietnam - Beliefs and religions]</ref><ref>[https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vm.html CIA Factbook- Vietnam]</ref>; 8% Christians (7% Catholics and 1% Protestants); 3% [[Caodaism]]; 2.5% Tribal animism; less than 70 thousand Muslims; small Hindu communities (over 50 thousand people) and a small numbers of Baha'is.

=== Education ===
{{main|Education in Vietnam}}
Vietnam has an extensive state-controlled network of schools, colleges and universities but the number of privately-run and mixed public and private institutions is also growing. General education in Vietnam is imparted in 5 categories: [[Kindergarten]], [[elementary school]]s, [[middle school]]s, [[high school]]s, and [[college]] / [[university]]. Courses are taught mainly in Vietnamese. A large number of public schools have been organized across cities, towns and villages with the purpose of raising the national literacy rate which is already among the highest in the world. There are a large number of specialist colleges, established to develop a diverse and skilled national workforce. A large number of Vietnam's most acclaimed universities are based in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City. Facing serious crises, Vietnam's education system is under a holistic reform launched by the government. In Vietnam, education from age 6 to 11 is free and mandatory. Education above these ages is not free, therefore some poor families may find it hard to come up with the tuition for their children without some forms of public or private assistance. Regardless, school enrollment is among the highest in the world and the number of colleges and universities increased quite dramatically in recent years, from 178 in 2000 to 299 in 2005.

== Health service ==
== Science ==

In the past, Vietnam did not have "science" in its generally accepted meaning, but many fields were well developed, especially social science and humanities. It has at least ten centuries of commentary and analytic writings. Among the best known works are those of "[[Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư]]" of Ngô Sĩ Liên. Writings that deal with geography, nature, customs and people were written by "Dư địa chí" of [[Nguyễn Trãi]]. In mathematics, operations (including power and extract the root) of primary arithmetics and surveying, measurement (length, area, volume...) of primary geometry were taught in schools using the famous textbook: "Đại thành toán pháp" of Lương Thế Vinh. Lương Thế Vinh had notion of [[0 (number)|zero]] and Mạc Hiển Tích used the term "số ẩn" (unknown/secret/hidden number) to refer to negative numbers. Much knowledge was collected into [[encyclopedia]]: "Vân đài loại ngữ" of [[Lê Quý Đôn]] and "Lịch triều hiến chương loại chí" of Phan Huy Chú.

== Culture ==
{{main|Culture of Vietnam}}
[[Image:EOS 6354 raw.jpg|thumb|The [[Văn Miếu]] (Temple of Literature).]]
[[Image:Hanoi Oper.jpg|thumb|The [[Hanoi Opera House]] is an example of French Colonial architecture in Vietnam.]]
The official spoken and written language of Vietnam is Vietnamese.

The culture of Vietnam has been influenced by neighboring China. Due to Vietnam's long association with the south of [[China]], one characteristic of Vietnamese culture is financial duty. Education and self-betterment are highly valued. Historically, passing the imperial [[Mandarin (bureaucrat)|Mandarin]] exams was the only means for Vietnamese people to socially advance themselves.

In the socialist era, the cultural life of Vietnam has been deeply influenced by government-controlled media and the cultural influences of socialist programs. For many decades, foreign cultural influences were shunned and emphasis placed on appreciating and sharing the culture of communist nations such as the Soviet Union, China, [[Cuba]] and others. Since the 1990s, Vietnam has seen a greater exposure to Southeast Asian, European and American culture and media.

One of the most popular Vietnamese traditional garments is the "{{lang|vi|[[Áo dài|Áo Dài]]}}", worn often for special occasions such as weddings or festivals. White Áo dài is the required uniform for girls in many high schools across Vietnam. Áo Dài was once worn by both genders but today it is worn mainly by females, except for certain important traditional culture-related occasions where some men do wear it.

[[Cuisine of Vietnam|Vietnamese cuisine]] uses very little oil and many vegetables. The main dishes are often based on [[rice]], [[soy sauce]], and [[fish sauce]]. Its characteristic flavors are sweet (sugar), spicy ([[serrano pepper]]s), sour (lime), nuoc mam (fish sauce), and flavored by a variety of mint and basil.

[[Vietnamese music]] varies slightly in the three regions: {{lang|vi|Bắc}} or North, {{lang|vi|Trung}} or Central, and {{lang|vi|Nam}} or South. Northern classical music is Vietnam's oldest and is traditionally more formal. Vietnamese classical music can be traced to the Mongol invasions, when the Vietnamese captured a Chinese [[opera]] troupe. Central classical music shows the influences of Champa culture with its melancholic melodies. Southern music exudes a lively [[laissez-faire]] attitude.

''See also [[Vietnamese art]], [[Vietnamese theatre|theatre]], [[Vietnamese dance|dance]], and [[Vietnamese literature|literature]]

[[Image:my dinh stadium.jpg|thumb|[[My Dinh National Stadium]] in Western Hanoi]]
[[Football (soccer)]] is the most popular sport in Vietnam. Sports and games such as [[badminton]], [[tennis]], [[ping pong]], and [[chess]] are also popular with large segments of the population. [[Volleyball]], especially women's volleyball, is watched by a fairly large number of Vietnamese. The (expatriate Vietnamese) community forms a prominent part of Vietnamese cultural life, introducing Western sports, films, music and other cultural activities in the nation.

See also ''[[List of Vietnamese traditional games]].''

Vietnam is home to a small film industry.

Among countless other traditional Vietnamese occasions, the [[traditional Vietnamese wedding]] is one of the most important. Regardless of [[westernization]], many of the age-old customs in a Vietnamese wedding continue to be celebrated by both Vietnamese in Vietnam and overseas, often combining both western and eastern elements.

See also ''[[List of festivals in Vietnam]]''

=== Media ===
Vietnam's media sector is controlled by the government to follow the official communist party line. The [[Voice of Vietnam]] is the official state-run radio broadcasting service that covers the nation. It also broadcasts internationally via shortwave, renting transmitters in other countries and provides broadcasts from its website. [[Vietnam Television]] is the national television broadcasting company. As Vietnam moved toward a free-market economy with its [[Đổi mới]] measures, the government has relied on the print media to keep the public informed about its policies. The measure has had the effect of almost doubling the numbers of [[newspaper]]s and magazines since 1996 . Vietnam is putting considerable effort into modernization and expansion of its telecommunication system, but its performance continues to lag behind that of its more modern neighbors.

=== Tourism ===
Vietnam's number of visitors for tourism and vacation has increased steadily over the past ten years. About 3.56 million international guests visited Vietnam in 2006, an increase of 3.7% from 2005. The country is investing capital into the coastal regions that are already popular for their beaches and boat tours. Hotel staff and tourism guides in these regions speak a good amount of English.

== Sports and games ==
== International rankings ==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Organization
! Survey
! Ranking
|-
| [[Heritage Foundation]]/''[[The Wall Street Journal]]''
| [[Index of Economic Freedom#Current ratings|Index of Economic Freedom]]
| 142 out of 157
|-
| ''[[The Economist]]''
| [http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf Worldwide Quality-of-life Index, 2005]
| 61 out of 111
|-
| [[Reporters Without Borders]]
| [[Reporters Without Borders#Worldwide press freedom index|Worldwide Press Freedom Index]]
| 155 out of 167
|-
| [[Transparency International]]
| [[Corruption Perceptions Index]]
| 111 out of 163
|-
| [[United Nations Development Programme]]
| [[List of countries by Human Development Index|Human Development Index]]
| 109 out of 177
|-
| [[World Economic Forum]]
| [[Global Competitiveness Report]]
| 77 out of 125
|}

== See also ==
{{Vietnam topics|state=expanded}}

== Sources and notes ==
{{reflist|2}}

== References ==
{{Refbegin}}
* Herring, George C''. America's Longest War: The United States and Vietnam, 1950-1975'' (4th ed 2001), most widely used short history.
* Jahn GC. 2006. The Dream is not yet over. In: P. Fredenburg P, Hill B, editors. Sharing rice for peace and prosperity in the Greater Mekong Subregion. Victoria, (Australia): Sid Harta Publishers. p 237-240
* Karrnow, Stanley. ''Vietnam: A History''. ''Penguin (Non-Classics)''; 2nd edition ([[June 1]], [[1997]]). ISBN 0-14-026547-3
* McMahon, Robert J. ''Major Problems in the History of the Vietnam War: Documents and Essays'' (1995) textbook
* Tucker, Spencer. ed. ''Encyclopedia of the Vietnam War'' (1998) 3 vol. reference set; also one-volume abridgment (2001)
*Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, 7th edition, Oxford University Press.
{{Refend}}

== External links ==
{{Sisterlinks|Vietnam}}

=== Government ===
* [http://www.vietnam.gov.vn/en/ Portal of the Government of Vietnam]
* [http://www.cpv.org.vn/index_e.html Communist Party of Vietnam]
* [http://www.na.gov.vn/htx/English/C1330/ National Assembly]: the Vietnamese legislative body
* [http://www.gso.gov.vn/default_en.aspx?tabid=491 General Statistics Office]
* [http://www.mofa.gov.vn/en/ Ministry of Foreign Affairs]
===Economy===
* [http://www.vneconomy.com.vn/eng/ Site Vietnam economy ]
* [http://www.ssc.gov.vn/ssc/defaulte.aspx?tabid=710 National Securites Center]
* [http://www.vse.org.vn/ Securites]
* [http://www.fpts.com.vn/User/stock/hcm/ live price of stock ]

=== Media ===
==== State-run ====
* [http://www.vov.org.vn/?lang=2 Voice of Vietnam]: State radio broadcaster
* [http://www.vtv.org.vn/en/ Vietnam Television]: State television broadcaster
* [http://www.vnagency.com.vn/Home/tabid/117/Default.aspx Vietnam News Agency]: Official state news agency
* [http://www.nhandan.com.vn/english ''Nhân Dân''] (''[[Nhân Dân|The People]])'': Official Communist Party newspaper
* [http://www.qdnd.vn/army/home.qdnd ''Quân đội Nhân Dân'']: Newspaper of the People's Army
* [http://english.vietnamnet.vn/ Vietnam Net]: Largest Vietnamese portal, run by the government-owned Vietnam Post and Telecommunication Corporation
* [http://www.hanoimoi.com.vn/ ''Hà Nội Mới''] (''New Hanoi''): run by the Hanoi Communist Party {{vi icon}}
* [http://www.saigon-gpdaily.com.vn/ ''Sài Gòn Giải Phóng''] (''Liberated Saigon''): run by the Ho Chi Minh City Communist Party

==== Non state-run ====
While all media in Vietnam must be sponsored by a Communist Party organization and be registered with the government, the following media sources have less government control than others.
* [http://www.vnexpress.net/ VnExpress]: Popular online newspaper {{vi icon}}
* [http://www.tuoitre.com.vn ''Tuổi Trẻ''] (''Youth''): Daily newspaper with highest circulation, affiliated with the Ho Chi Minh Communist Youth Organization of Ho Chi Minh City {{vi icon}}
* [http://www.thanhniennews.com/ ''Thanh Niên''] (''Youth''): Major daily newspaper, affiliated with the Vietnam National Youth Federation
* [http://www.laodong.com.vn/ ''Lao Động''] (''Labour''): Major daily newspaper, affiliated with the Vietnam General Confederation of Labour (the sole labour union in Vietnam) {{vi icon}}
* [http://www.tienphongonline.com.vn ''Tiền Phong''] (''Vanguard''): Major daily newspaper, affiliated with the Ho Chi Minh Communist Youth organization {{vi icon}}
* [http://www.vneconomy.com.vn/eng/ Vietnam Economic Times] - for foreign investors.

=== Overviews ===
* [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1243338.stm BBC - Country profile: ''Vietnam'']
* [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vm.html CIA World Factbook - ''Vietnam'']
* [http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=140&edition=7&ccrpage=31&ccrcountry=140 Freedom House "Countries at the Crossroads" report - ''Vietnam'']: information on government accountability, civil liberties, rule of law, and anticorruption efforts
* [http://www2.hcm.ciren.gov.vn/cirengis VietNam Map] or [http://www.sjvietnam.org/map a collection of Vietnamese maps]
* [http://www.britannica.com/nations/Vietnam Encyclopaedia Britannica - ''Vietnam'']
* [http://dmoz.org/Regional/Asia/Vietnam/ Open Directory Project - ''Vietnam''] directory category
* [http://www.state.gov/p/eap/ci/vm/ US State Department - ''Vietnam''] includes Background Notes, Country Study and major reports
* [http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/vntoc.html US Library of Congress - ''Country Study: Vietnam'']
* [http://www.mofa.gov.vn/en/tt_vietnam/ Information about Vietnam]: from the Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affair
* [http://perso.numericable.fr/patrickgu Le Viêt Nam, aujourd'hui]: News concerning Vietnam (English & French)
* [http://www.business-anti-corruption.dk/normal.asp?pageid=148 Business Anti-Corruption Portal] Vietnam Country Profile
* [http://www.vietnamtourism.com Vietnam tourism website] Official Tourism website of Vietnam

 {{Subdivisions of Vietnam}}
{{Template group
|title = Geographic locale
|list =
{{Countries and territories of Southeast Asia}}
{{Countries of Asia}}
}}
{{Template group
|title = International membership
|list =
{{Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)}}
{{East Asia Summit (EAS)}}
{{La Francophonie|state=collapsed}}
{{Communist states}}
{{Austroasiatic-speaking}}
{{Austronesian-speaking countries and territories}}
{{Sino-Tibetan-speaking}}
{{World Trade Organization (WTO)}}
}}


[[Category:Vietnam| ]]
[[Category:ASEAN members|Vietnam]]
[[Category:Communist states|Vietnam]]



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List of first ascents of mountain summits

2008-08-03T10:25:40Z

Rungbachduong: Undid revision 224622944 by 71.106.231.113 (talk) - revert vandal

The following list summarizes the [[first ascent]]s of [[mountain]]s and peaks around the world, in chronological order

{| border=1 cellspacing=1 cellpadding=5 style="border-collapse: collapse; background:#f0f0f0;"
|- bgcolor="#dfdfdf;"
! Peak !! Height !! Range !! Country !! Climber !! Nationality !! Year
|-
| [[Mount Fuji]] || 3,776 m || || {{JPN}} || anonymous || {{JPN}} || 663
|-----
| [[Corno Grande]] || 2,912 m || [[Apennine Mountains|Apennines]] || {{ITA}} || [[Francesco De Marchi]] || {{ITA}} || [[1573]]
|-----
| [[Mount Washington (New Hampshire)|Mount Washington]] || 1,917 m || [[Appalachians]] || {{USA}} || [[Darby Field]] || {{USA}} || 1642
|-----
| [[Ben Nevis]] || 1,334 m || [[Grampian Range]] || {{SCO}} || [[James Robertson|J. Robertson]]|| {{UK}} || 1771
|
|-----
|[[Mont Blanc]] || 4,808 m || [[Alps]] || {{FRA}} || [[Jacques Balmat|J. Balmat]] & [[Michel Paccard|M. Paccard]] || {{FRA}} || 1786
|-
| [[Klyuchevskaya Sopka]] || 4,750 m || [[Kamchatka Peninsula|Kamchatka]] || {{RUS}} || Daniel Gauss and 2 others || ? || 1788
|-----
| [[Großglockner]] || 3,797 m || [[Alps]] || {{AUT}} || [[Franz Josef Horrasch|F. Horrasch]], [[Martin Klotz|M. Klotz]] & [[Sepp Klotz|S. Klotz]] || {{AUT}} || 1800
|-----
| [[Ortler]] || 3,905 m || [[Alps]] || {{ITA}} || [[Josef Pichler|J. Pichler]] & 2 others || || 1804
|-----
| [[Katahdin]] || 1,608 m || [[Appalachians]] || {{USA}} || [[Charles Turner Jr.]], [[William Howe]] & [[Amos Patten]] || {{USA}} || 1804
|-----
| [[Jungfrau]] || 4,158 m || [[Alps]] || {{SUI}} || [[J. Meyer]], [[H. Meyer]] and others || {{SUI}} || 1811
|-----
| [[Zugspitze]] || 2,962 m || [[Alps]] || {{GER}} / {{AUT}} || [[Josef Naus|J. Naus]] and others || {{GER}} || 1820
|-----
| [[Pikes Peak]] || 4,302 m || [[Rockies]] || {{USA}} || [[Edwin James (mountaineer) | Edwin James]] & 2 others|| || 1820
|-----
| [[Mount Elbrus]] || 5,642 m || [[Caucasus]] || {{RUS}} || [[Killar Kashirov]] (expedition led by Lenz )||{{RUS}} || 1829
|-----
| [[Gerlachovský štít]] || 2,655 m || [[Carpathian Mountains]] || {{SVK}} || [[Ján Still]] || {{SVK}} || 1834
|-----
| [[Rysy]] || 2,503 m || [[Carpathian Mountains]] || {{SVK}} \ {(Poland)} || [[Eduard Blásy]], [[Ján Ruman Driečny (older)|Ján Ruman Driečny Sr.]]|| {{SVK}} || 1840
|-----
| [[Aneto]] || 3,404 m || [[Pyrenees]] || {{ESP}} || [[Platon de Tchihatcheff|P. de Tchihatcheff (Chikhachev)]] five others|| {{RUS}} {{FRA}} || 1842
|-----
| [[Citlaltépetl]] || 5,700 m || [[Sierra Madre Oriental]] || {{MEX}} || [[Alexander Doignon|A. Doignon]] ||{{FRA}} || 1851
|-
| [[Mount St. Helens]] || 2,550 m || [[Cascade Range]] || {{USA}} || [[Thomas J. Dryer|T. J. Dryer]] || {{USA}} || 1853
|-----
| [[Mount Cameroon]] || 4,070 m || || {{CMR}} || [[Gustav Mann|G. Mann]] ([[Germany]]) & [[Richard Francis Burton|R.F. Burton]] || {{UK}} || 1861
|-----
| [[Matterhorn]] || 4,478 m || [[Alps]] || {{SUI}} / {{ITA}} || [[Edward Whymper|E. Whymper]] and others ||{{UK}} || 1865
|-----
| [[Aiguille Verte]] || 4,121 m || [[Alps]] || {{FRA}} || [[Edward Whymper|E. Whymper]] [[Christian Almer|C. Almer]] [[Franz Biner|F. Biner]] ||{{UK}} {{UK}} {{SUI}} || 1865
|-----
| [[Longs Peak]] || 4,345 m || [[Rockies]] || {{USA}} || [[John Wesley Powell]] || {{USA}} || 1868
|-----
| [[Grand Teton]] || 4,197 m || [[Rockies]] || {{USA}} || N. Langford/Owens & Spalding || {{USA}} || 1872/1893
|-----
| [[La Meije|Meije]] || 3,983 m || [[Alps]] || {{FRA}} || [[E. Boileau de Castelnau|E. B. Castelnau]], father and son [[Pierre Gaspard|P. Gaspard]] || {{FRA}} || 1877
|-----
| [[Mount Ruapehu]] || 2,797 m || [[Taupo Volcanic Zone]] || {{NZL}} || [[George Beetham|G. Beetham]], [[Joseph Prime Maxwell|J.P. Maxwell]] || {{NZL}} || 1879
|-----
| [[Chimborazo (volcano)|Chimborazo]] || 6,267 m || [[Andes]] || {{ECU}} || [[Edward Whymper|E. Whymper]] || {{UK}} || 1880
|-----
| [[Kibo (volcano)|Kibo]] || 5,895 m || [[Kilimanjaro]] || {{TAN}} || [[Hans Meyer|H. Meyer]] [[Ludwig Purtscheller|L. Purtscheller]] || {{GER}} {{AUT}} || 1889
|-
| [[Aoraki/Mount Cook]] || 3,754 m || [[Southern Alps]] || {{NZL}} || T. Fyfe, G. Graham, J. Clarke || || 1894
|-----
| [[Aconcagua]] || 6,959 m || [[Andes]] || {{ARG}} || [[Matthias Zurbriggen|M. Zurbriggen]] || {{SUI}} || 1897
|-----
| [[Mount Saint Elias]] || 5,489 m || [[Saint Elias Mountains]] || {{CAN}}/{{USA}} || [[Luigi Amedeo, Duke of the Abruzzi|Duke of the Abruzzi]] || {{ITA}} || 1897
|-----
| [[Batian]] || 5,199 m || [[Mount Kenya|Mount Kenya Massif]] || {{KEN}} || [[Halford Mackinder|H. Mackinder]], [[Cesar Ollier|C. Ollier]] & [[Joseph Brocherel|J. Brocherel]] || {{UK}} || 1899
|-----
| [[Margherita Peak]] || 5,109 m || [[Ruwenzori Mountains]] || {{COD}} & {{UGA}} || [[Ludwig Amadeus von Savoyen|L.A. v. Savoyen]] || {{ITA}} || 1906
|-----
|[[Mount Erebus]] || 3,794 m || [[Transantarctic Mountains]] || {{ATA}} || [[Tannatt William Edgeworth David|T.W.E. David]] and others || {{UK}} || 1908
|-----
| [[Huascaran|Huascaran N.]] || 6,645 m || [[Andes]] || {{PER}} || [[Annie Peck]], [[R. Taugwalder]] ||{{USA}} || 1908
|-----
| [[Mount McKinley|Denali N. Peak]] || 5,935 m || [[Alaska Range]] || {{USA}} || [[Tom Lloyd (maountaineer) | Tom Lloyd]] || {{USA}} || 1910
|-----
| [[Mount McKinley]] || 6,198 m || [[Alaska Range]] || {{USA}} || [[Hudson Stuck|H. Stuck]] and others || || 1913
|-----
| [[Mount Robson]] || 3,954 m || [[Canadian Rockies]] || {{CAN}} || Kain & McCarty ([[Canada]]) and others|| || 1913
|-----
| [[Mount Logan]] || 5,959 m || [[Saint Elias Mountains]] || {{CAN}} || A.H. MacCarthy et al.|| ? || 1925
|-----
| [[Mount Russell (California)|Mount Russell]] || 4,294 m || [[Sierra Nevada (U.S.)|Sierra Nevada]] || {{USA}} || [[Norman Clyde]] || {{USA}} || 1926
|-----
| [[Huascaran|Huascaran S.]] || 6,768 m || [[Andes]] || {{PER}} || Bernard, Borchers || {{AUT}} || 1932
|-----
| [[Devils Tower]] || 1,558 m || [[Rockies]] || {{USA}} || Rogers, Willard, (Wiessner) || {{USA}} || 1893, 1934
|-----
| [[Annapurna]] || 8,091 m || [[Himalayas]] || {{NPL}} || [[Maurice Herzog|M. Herzog]] & [[Louis Lachenal|L. Lachenal]] || {{FRA}} || 1950
|-----
| [[Mount Everest]] || 8,848 m || [[Himalaya]] || {{NPL}} / {{CHN}} || [[Tenzing Norgay|T. Norgay]] [[Edmund Hillary|E. Hillary]] ||{{NPL}} {{NZL}} || 1953
|-----
| [[Nanga Parbat]] || 8,126 m || [[Himalaya]] || {{PAK}} || [[Hermann Buhl|H. Buhl]] || {{AUT}} || 1953
|-----
| [[K2]] || 8,611 m || [[Karakorum Range|Karakorum]] || {{PAK}} || [[Achille Compagnoni|A. Compagnoni]] & [[Lino Lacedelli|L. Lacedelli]] || {{ITA}} || 1954
|-----
| [[Kangchenjunga]] || 8,586 m || [[Himalayas]] || {{NPL}} & {{IND}} || [[George Band|G. Band]] & [[Joe Brown (climber)|J. Brown]] || {{UK}} || 1955
|-----
| [[Lhotse]] || 8,516 m || [[Himalaya]] || {{NPL}} || F. Luchsinger and E. Reiß || {{SUI}} || 1956
|-----
| [[Broad Peak]] || 8,047 m || [[Karakoram]] || {{PAK}} || [[Fritz Wintersteller|F. Wintersteller]], [[Marcus Schmuck|M. Schmuck]],[[Kurt Diemberger|K. Diemberger]] & [[Hermann Buhl|H. Buhl]] || {{AUT}} || 1957
|-----
| [[Mount Vinson]] || 4,897 m || [[Sentinel Range]] || {{ATA}} || [[Nicolas Clinch|N. Clinch]] and others || {{USA}} || 1966
|}

==See also==
*[[Exploration of the High Alps|List of first ascents in the Alps]]
*[[List of highest mountains|List of first ascents in the Himalaya]]
[[Category:Climbing]]

[[de:Liste der Erstbesteigungen]]
[[es:Anexo:Primeras Ascensiones]]

Vietnamese people in Korea

2008-08-01T15:31:58Z

Rungbachduong: /* Early history */

'''Vietnamese people in Korea''' have a history going back to the latter days of Vietnam's [[Ly Dynasty]]; several princes of Ly sought refuge with the kingdom of [[Goryeo]].<ref> Professors review Vietnamese-Korean cultural relationship,http://english.vietnamnet.vn/lifestyle/2007/07/719203/</ref> After the [[division of Korea]] and the [[Korean War]], [[Vietnamese people]] began settling in both [[North Korea|North]] and [[South Korea]].

==Early history==
One of the earliest Vietnamese people in Korea was [[Lý Dương Côn]] (李陽焜), an adopted son of Emperor [[Lý Nhân Tông]]; following a succession crisis, he fled to [[Goryeo]]. He is remembered in modern-day Korea as the founder of the [[Jeongseon|Jeongseon-gun]], [[Gangwon (historical)|Gangwon-do]] ''[[bon-gwan]]'' of the [[Lee (Korean name)|Lee]] family.<ref>{{citation|url=http://www.rootsinfo.co.kr/name/frame.cgi?sirname=lee&bon=lee_jsn|title=RootsInfo Korea|date=2007|accessdate=2007-07-09|contribution=旌善李氏 (Jeongseon Lee)}}</ref><ref name="TT">{{citation|url=http://www.tuoitre.com.vn/Tianyon/Index.aspx?ArticleID=172417&ChannelID=89|title=Đi tìm dòng họ Lý ở Hàn Quốc: 800 năm hoài cố hương (Looking for the Lee family in Korea)|author=Trung Nghia|periodical=Tuoi Tre
|date=[[2006-11-14]]|accessdate=2007-07-02}}</ref> Later, a Vietnamese prince of the [[Ly Dynasty]], [[Lý Long Tường]] (the seventh son of emperor [[Lý Anh Tông]]) and his crew of several thousand mandarins and servants sailed directly to Korea after hearing that the Ly Dynasty would be overthrown by the [[Tran Dynasty]]. [[Lý Anh Tông]] and his crew sought refuge in Goryeo in 1226. The Vietnamese prince made significant contribution, sharing warfare tactics which would help Korea repel Mongol invasions. A report on [[Lý Long Tường]] was broadcasted by South Korean TV channel [[KBS]] in December 1995.<ref>Kelly, Tim (2006-09-18), “Ho Chi Minh Money Trail”, Forbes, <http://members.forbes.com/global/2006/0918/028.html>. Retrieved on 27 March 2007 </ref>

Legend has it that King [[Gojong of Goryeo]] (1213-1259) had dreamt of a grand phoenix flying from the south landing in his nation; therefore, he ordered the local government of [[Haeju]], [[Hwanghae]] to give the Vietnamese refugees a red-carpet welcome and let them live in a manor in the nearby countryside. [[Lý Long Tường]] thus became the patriarch of the [[Hwasan]], [[Ongjin, South Hwanghae|Ongjin-gun]] ''bon-gwan'' of the [[Lee]] family. On November 6, 1958, during his visit to [[South Vietnam]], South Korean president [[Syngman Rhee]] reportedly told the local press that he was a descendant of [[Ly Long Tuong]].<ref name="TT"/><ref>{{citation|url=http://www.rootsinfo.co.kr/name/frame.cgi?sirname=lee&bon=lee_hws|contribution=花山李氏 (The Hwasan Lee clan)|title=RootsInfo Korea|date=2007|accessdate=2007-07-09}}</ref>

==After the division of Korea==
Students from [[North Vietnam]] began going to [[North Korea]] to study as early as the 1960s, even before the formal establishment of Korean-language education in their country.<ref>{{citation|url=http://newsletter.kf.or.kr/english/contents.asp?vol=51&lang=English&no=545|title=Korean Studies in Vietnam|journal=Korea Foundation Newsletter|date=February 2005|volume=14|issue=1|last=Le|first=Quang Thiem|accessdate=2007-07-09}}</ref> The current Vietnamese ambassador to South Korea is a graduate of [[Kim Il-sung University]].<ref>{{citation|url=http://article.joins.com/article/article.asp?total_id=442471|title=`우리는 김일성대학 동문 사이`|periodical=JoongAng Ilbo|date=[[2005-01-27]]|accessdate=2007-07-09|last=Choe|first=Won-gi}}</ref> The son of a former staff member in the Vietnamese embassy in [[Pyongyang]], who also attended Kim Il-sung University between 1998 and 2002, gave an interview in 2004 with [[Newspapers of South Korea|South Korean newspaper]] ''[[The Chosun Ilbo]]'' about the experiences he had while living there.<ref>{{citation|publisher=The Chosun Ilbo|date=2004-10-05|title=김일성大 베트남 유학생이 본 북한}}</ref>

Vietnamese migration to South Korea began later, but quickly grew to a large scale; their population consists mainly of migrant workers and women introduced to local husbands through marriage agencies.<ref>{{citation|last=Nguyen|first=Nhu|date=1999|title=The Reality: Vietnamese Migrant Workers in South Korea|location=Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam|publisher=Mobility Research and Support Center}}</ref> In 1994, 20,493 [[guest worker|labour migrants]] went from [[Vietnam]] to South Korea on traineeship visas; by 1997, this had risen by about 10% to 22,325. Migrants were mostly male and unskilled; they were employed in small and medium-sized companies in labour-intensive industries such as fishing and manufacturing.<ref>{{citation|title=Migration in the Asia Pacific: Population, Settlement and Citizenship Issues|last=Iredale|first=Robin R.|coauthors=Castles, Stephen; Hawksley, Charles|publisher=Edward Elgar Publishing|location=Cheltenham, United Kingdom|date=2003|isbn=1840648600|page=173}}</ref> [[Mail-order bride|Spousal migration]] has a somewhat longer history; during the [[Vietnam War]], some of the more than 300,000 [[Military of South Korea|South Korean soldiers]] and civilian support staff stationed in Vietnam married Vietnamese women and brought them back to Korea; however, many of these marriages ended in divorce.<ref name=Kagan>{{citation|url=http://www.hamline.edu/~rkagan/Publications_Asian%20Literary%20Views%20on%20Vietnam.html|title=Disarming Memories: Japanese, Korean and American Literature on the Vietnam War|publisher=Hamline University|location=St. Paul, Minnesota|last=Kagan|first=Richard C.}}</ref> Spousal migration would not become a large-scale phenomenon until the 1990s, when South Korean men unable to attract wives locally began to turn to marriage agencies to seek brides in overseas countries, including Vietnam; as of 2006, 5,000 Vietnamese brides immigrated to South Korea every year.<ref name=Forbes>{{citation|url=http://members.forbes.com/global/2006/0918/028.html|title=Ho Chi Minh Money Trail|last=Kelly|first=Tim|date=[[2006-09-18]]|accessdate=2007-03-27|periodical=Forbes}}</ref><ref>{{cite news|title=Marriage brokers in Vietnam cater to S. Korean bachelors|last=Onishi|first=Norimitsu|authorlink=Norimitsu Onishi|periodical=International Herald Tribune|date=[[2007-02-21]]|accessdate=2007-03-27|url=http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/21/news/brides.php}}</ref><ref>{{citation|last=Onishi|first=Norimitsu|title=Wed to Strangers, Vietnamese Wives Build Korean Lives|date=[[2008-03-30]]|accessdate=2008-03-31|periodical=The New York Times|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/world/asia/30brides.html?pagewanted=all}}</ref>

==See also==
*[[Koreans in Vietnam]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{Immigrants and expatriates in Korea}}
{{Overseas Vietnamese}}

[[Category:Korean society]]
[[Category:Vietnamese diaspora|Korea, Vietnamese people in]]

[[ko:재한 베트남인]]
[[vi:Người Việt tại Triều Tiên]]

Talk:Lý Long Tường

2008-08-01T15:27:54Z

Rungbachduong: /* Hoax tag */

Cinema of China

2008-07-19T17:09:27Z

Rungbachduong: + interwiki

{{East Asian cinema}}
[[Image:Tan Xinpei Dingjunshan 1905.jpg|thumb|right|Actor Tan Xinpei in ''The Battle of Dingjunshan'', 1905]]
The [[Chinese language|Chinese-language]] [[film|cinema]] has three distinct historical threads: [[Cinema of Hong Kong]], '''Cinema of China''', and [[Cinema of Taiwan]]. After 1949 and until recent times, the cinema of [[mainland China]] operated under restrictions imposed by the [[Communist Party of China]]. Some films with political overtones are still censored or banned in China itself. However, most of these films are allowed to be shown abroad in commercially distributed [[theater]]s or in [[film festival]]s.

The vast majority of the Mainland-produced movies are [[Mandarin language|Mandarin]]-based, unlike those from contemporary [[Hong Kong]], which are almost exclusively made in [[Standard Cantonese|Cantonese]]. Mainland films are often dubbed when exported to Hong Kong for theatrical runs, though Taiwan, like the PRC is predominantly Mandarin-speaking, and offers ready alternative commercial outlets for export.

==The Beginnings: Shanghai as the centre, 1896-1945==
[[Motion pictures]] were introduced to [[China]] in 1896. The first recorded screening of a motion picture in China occurred in [[Shanghai]] on August 11, 1896, as an "act" on a variety bill. The first Chinese film, a recording of the [[Beijing Opera]], ''[[The Battle of Dingjunshan]]'', was made in November 1905.<ref name=Geiselmann>{{cite web | url = http://www.univie.ac.at/Sinologie/repository/ueLK110_ChinFilmgesch/filmgeschichteSkript.pdf
|title = Chinese Film History - A Short Introduction | accessdate = 2007-07-25 |date=2006 | author = Martin Geiselmann|publisher = The University of Vienna- Sinologie Program}}</ref> For the next decade the production companies were mainly foreign-owned, and the domestic [[film]] industry did not start in earnest until 1916, centering around [[Shanghai]], a thriving entrepot center and the largest city in the [[Far East]].
During the 1920s film technicians from the [[United States]] trained Chinese technicians in Shanghai, and American influence continued to be felt there for the next two decades. It was during this period that some of the more important production companies first came into being, notably [[Mingxing Film Company]] ("Bright Star" Pictures) and the [[Shaw Brothers]]' [[Tianyi Film Company]] ("Unique"). Mingxing, founded by [[Zheng Zhengqiu]] and [[Zhang Shichuan]] initially focused on comic shorts, including the oldest surviving Chinese film, ''[[Laborer's Love]]'' (1922).<ref name=Centennial>{{cite web | url = http://chinesecinema.ucsd.edu/essay_ccwlc.html
|title = A Centennial Review of Chinese Cinema| accessdate = 2007-04-26| author = Zhang Yingjin |date= 2003-10-10| publisher = University of California-San Diego}}</ref><ref>{{cite web | url =
http://people.cohums.ohio-state.edu/denton2/courses/c505/temp/history/chapter2.html
|title = A Brief History of Chinese Film | accessdate = 2007-04-24 |date= | author = |publisher = Ohio State University}}</ref> This soon shifted, however, to feature length films and family dramas including ''[[Orphan Rescues Grandfather]]'' (1923).<ref name=Centennial/> Meanwhile, Tianyi shifted their model towards folklore dramas, and also pushed into foreign markets; their film ''[[White Snake (film)|White Snake]]'' (1926) proved a typical example of their success in the Chinese communities of Southeast Asia.<ref name=Centennial/>

===The Leftist movement===
However, the first truly important Chinese films were produced beginning in the 1930s, with the advent of the "progressive" or "left-wing" movement, like [[Cheng Bugao]]'s ''[[Spring Silkworms (film)|Spring Silkworms]]'' (1933), [[Sun Yu (director)|Sun Yu]]'s ''[[The Big Road]]'' (1935), and [[Wu Yonggang]]'s ''[[The Goddess (1934 film)|The Goddess]]'' (1934). These progressive films were noted for their emphasis on class struggle and external threats (i.e. Japanese aggression), as well as on their focus on common people, such as a family of silk farmers in ''Spring Silkworms'' and a prostitute in ''The Goddess''.<ref name=Geiselmann/> In part due to the success of these kinds of films, this post-1930 era is now often referred to as the first "golden period" of Chinese cinema.<ref name=Geiselmann/>

Three [[production company|production companies]] dominated the market in the early to mid- 1930s: the newly formed [[Lianhua Film Company|Lianhua]] ("United China"),<ref>Lianhua is also sometimes referred to in scholarly literature as the "United Photoplay Service".</ref> the older and larger Mingxing and Tianyi.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/international/feature_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001614559 | title = Timeline | accessdate = 2006-05-08 | author = Kraicer, Shelly |date= 2005-12-06| publisher = Hollywood Reporter}}</ref> Both Mingxing and Lianhua leaned left (Lianhua's management perhaps more so),<ref name=Geiselmann/> while Tianyi continued to make less socially conscious fare.

The period also produced the first big Chinese [[movie star]]s, namely [[Hu Die (actress)|Hu Die]], [[Ruan Lingyu]], [[Zhou Xuan]], [[Zhao Dan]] and [[Jin Yan]]. Other major films of the period include ''[[New Women]]'' (1934), ''[[Song of the Fishermen]]'' (1934)'', [[Crossroads (1937 film)|Crossroads]]'' (1937), and ''[[Street Angel (1937 film)|Street Angel]]'' (1937). Throughout the 1930s, the [[Kuomintang|Nationalists]] and the [[Communist Party of China|Communists]] struggled for power and control over the major studios; their influence can be seen in the films the studios produced during this period.

===Shanghai, the Solitary Island===
The [[Second Sino-Japanese War|Japanese invasion of China]], in particular their occupation of Shanghai, ended this golden run in Chinese cinema. All production companies except [[Xinhua Film Company]] ("New China") closed shop, and many of the filmmakers fled Shanghai, relocating to [[Hong Kong]], the wartime Nationalist capital [[Chongqing]], and elsewhere. The Shanghai film industry, though severely curtailed, did not stop however, thus leading to the so-called "[[Solitary Island]]" period (also known as the "Sole Island", "Isolated Island", or "Orphan Island"), with Shanghai's foreign concessions serving as an "island" of production in the "sea" of Japanese occupied territory. It was during this period that artists and directors (who remained in the city) had to walk a fine line between staying true to their leftist and nationalist beliefs and Japanese pressures. Director [[Bu Wancang]]'s ''[[Mulan Joins the Army (1939 film)|Mulan Joins the Army]]'' (1939), with its story of a young Chinese peasant fighting against a foreign invasion, was a particularly good example of Shanghai's continued film-production in the midst of war.<ref>{{cite web | url =
http://www.chinaculture.org/gb/en_artqa/2003-09/24/content_38559.htm | title = Sole Island Movies| accessdate = 2006-08-18 | author = Ministry of Culture Staff |date= 2003| publisher = ChinaCulture.org}}</ref><ref name=Centennial/> Following declared war with the Western allies in the aftermath of December 7th, 1941, this period largely ended; the solitary island finally being engulfed by the rest of the Japanese occupation. With the Shanghai industry firmly in Japanese control, films like the [[Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere]]-promoting ''[[Eternity (1943 film)|Eternity]]'' (1943) were produced.<ref name=Centennial/> By the end of [[World War II]] one of the most controversial Japanese-authorized company, [[Manchukuo Film Association]], would be separated and integrated into Chinese cinema.

==The Second Golden Age, the late 1940s==
The film industry continued to develop after 1945. Production in Shanghai once again resumed as a new crop of studios took the place that Lianhua and Mingxing had occupied in the previous decade. In 1946, Cai Chusheng returned to Shanghai to revive the Lianhua name as the "Lianhua Film Society."<ref>{{cite web | url =http://chinesecinema.ucsd.edu/directors_ccwlc.html#cai | title = Chinese Cinema - Cai Chusheng| accessdate = 2007-04-25| author =Zhang Yingjin |date= 2007-01-2004| publisher = University of California-San Diego}}</ref> This in turn became [[Kunlun Film Company|Kunlun Studios]] which would go on to become one of the most important studios of the era, putting out the classics, ''[[Myriads of Lights]]'' (1948), ''[[The Spring River Flows East]]'' (1947), and ''[[Crows and Sparrows]]'' (1949).<ref>{{cite web | url =http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/organisation/13907 | title = Kunlun Film Company| accessdate = 2007-04-25| author = |date= 2004| publisher = British Film Institute}}</ref>
Many of these films showed the disillusionment with the oppressive rule of [[Chiang Kai-shek]]'s Nationalist Party. ''The Spring River Flows East'', a three-hour-long two-parter directed by Cai Chusheng and [[Zheng Junli]], was a particularly strong success. Its depiction of the struggles of ordinary Chinese during the Sino-Japanese war, replete with biting social and political commentary struck a chord with audiences of the time.

Meanwhile, companies like the [[Wenhua Film Company]] ("Culture Films"), moved away from the leftist tradition and explored the evolution and development of other dramatic genres. Wenhua's romantic drama ''[[Spring in a Small Town]]'' (1948), a film by director [[Fei Mu]] shortly prior to the revolution, is often regarded by Chinese film critics as one of the most important films in the history of Chinese cinema, with it being named by the [[Hong Kong Film Awards]] in 2004 as the greatest Chinese-language film ever made.<ref>{{cite web | url =http://www.hkfaa.com/news/100films.html | title = Welcome to the Hong Kong Film Awards| accessdate = 2007-04-04 | author = |date= 2004| publisher =}}</ref> Ironically, it was precisely its artistic quality and apparent lack of "political grounding" that led to its labeling by the [[Communist Party of China|Communists]] as rightist or reactionary, and the film was quickly forgotten by those on the mainland following the [[Chinese Civil War|Communist victory]] in China in 1949.<ref>Zhang Yingjin, "Introduction" in ''Cinema and Urban Culture in Shanghai, 1922–1943'', ed. Yingjin Zhang (Stanford: Stanford University Press, 1999), 8.</ref> However, with the China Film Archive's re-opening after the Cultural Revolution, a new print was made from the original negative, allowing ''Spring of the Small Town'' to find a new and admiring audience and to influence an entire new generation of filmmakers. Indeed, an acclaimed [[Springtime in a Small Town|remake]] was made in 2002 by [[Tian Zhuangzhuang]].

==The Communist era, 1950s-1960s==

With the Communist takeover in 1949, the government saw motion pictures as an important mass production art form and tool for [[propaganda]]. Starting from 1951, pre-1949 Chinese films and Hollywood and Hong Kong productions were banned as the [[Communist Party of China]] sought to tighten control over mass media, producing instead movies centering around peasants, soldiers and workers such as ''[[Bridge (film)|Bridge]]'' (1949) and ''[[The White Haired Girl (film)|The White Haired Girl]]'' (1950). One of the production bases in the middle of all the transition was the [[Changchun Film Studio]].

The number of movie-viewers increased sharply, from 47 million in 1949 to 415 million in 1959. Movie attendance reached an all-time high of 4.17 billion entries in that same year. In the 17 years between the founding of the [[People's Republic of China]] and the [[Cultural Revolution]], 603 feature films and 8,342 reels of documentaries and [[newsreel]]s were produced, sponsored mostly as [[Communist Party of China|Communist]] [[propaganda]] by the government.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.china.org.cn/english/features/film/84966.htm | title = Film Industry in China | accessdate = 2007-02-27 | author = Li Xiao |date= 2004-01-17| publisher = China.org.cn}}</ref> Chinese filmmakers were sent to [[Moscow]] to study [[Soviet]] filmmaking. In 1956, the [[Beijing Film Academy]] was opened. The first wide-screen Chinese film was produced in 1960. [[Animations|Animated films]] using a variety of [[Chinese folk art|folk arts]], such as [[Chinese paper art|papercuts]], [[shadow theatre|shadow plays]], [[glove puppetry|puppetry]], and [[Chinese painting|traditional paintings]], also were very popular for entertaining and educating children. The most famous of these, the classic ''[[Havoc in Heaven]]'' (two parts, 1961, 4), was made by [[Wan Laiming]] of the [[Wan Brothers]] and won Best Film award at the [[London International Film Festival]].

The thawing of censorship in 1956-7 and the early 1960s led to more indigenous Chinese films being made which were less reliant on their Soviet counterparts. The most prominent filmmaker of this era is [[Xie Jin]], whose two films in particular, ''[[The Red Detachment of Women (film)|The Red Detachment of Women]]'' (1961) and ''[[Two Stage Sisters]]'' (1965), exemplify China's increased expertise at filmmaking during this time.

==The Cultural Revolution and its aftermath, 1960s-1980s==

During the [[Cultural Revolution]], the film industry was severely restricted. Almost all previous films were banned, and only a few new ones were produced, the most notable being a ballet version of the revolutionary opera ''[[The Red Detachment of Women]]'' (1971). Feature film production came almost to a standstill in the early years from 1967 to 1972. Movie production revived after 1972 under the strict jurisdiction of the [[Gang of Four]] until 1976, when they were overthrown.

In the years immediately following the Cultural Revolution, the film industry again flourished as a medium of popular entertainment. Domestically produced films played to large audiences, and tickets for foreign [[film festival]]s sold quickly. The industry tried to revive crowds by making more innovative and "exploratory" films like their counterparts in the West.

In the 1980s the film industry fell on hard times, faced with the dual problems of competition from other forms of entertainment and concern on the part of the authorities that many of the popular thriller and [[martial art]]s films were socially unacceptable. In January 1986 the film industry was transferred from the [[Ministry of Culture (China)|Ministry of Culture]] to the newly formed [[Ministry of Radio, Cinema, and Television (China)|Ministry of Radio, Cinema, and Television]] to bring it under "stricter control and management" and to "strengthen supervision over production."

The end of the Cultural Revolution brought the release of "scar dramas", which depicted the emotional traumas left by this period. ''[[Evening Rain]]'' ([[Wu Yonggang]], [[Wu Yigong]], 1980) and ''[[Legend of the Tianyun Mountains]]'' ([[Xie Jin]], 1980) both won the first [[Golden Rooster Award]] in 1981. The best-known of these is probably Xie Jin's ''[[Hibiscus Town]]'' (1986), although they could be seen as late as the 1990s with [[Tian Zhuangzhuang]]'s ''[[The Blue Kite]]'' (1993).

==The rise of the Fifth Generation, 1980s-1990s==

Beginning in the mid-late 1980s, the rise of the so-called Fifth Generation of Chinese filmmakers brought increased popularity of Chinese cinema abroad. Most of the filmmakers who constitute the Fifth Generation had graduated from the [[Beijing Film Academy]] in 1982 and included [[Zhang Yimou]], [[Tian Zhuangzhuang]], [[Chen Kaige]], [[Zhang Junzhao]] and others. These graduates constituted the first group of filmmakers to graduate since the [[Cultural Revolution]] and they soon jettisoned traditional methods of storytelling and opted for a more free and unorthodox approach.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.kinema.uwaterloo.ca/ghy-941.htm | title = The Irresistible Rise of Asian Cinema-Tian Zhuangzhuang: A Director of the 21st Century| accessdate = 2007-04-23 |date= 2002-11-19 | author=Yvonne Ng|publisher = Kinema}}</ref> Zhang Junzhao's ''[[One and Eight]]'' (1983) and Chen Kaige's ''[[Yellow Earth]]'' (1984) in particular were taken to mark the beginnings of the Fifth Generation.<ref>Notably Zhang Yimou served as cinematographer for both films.</ref> The most famous of the Fifth Generation directors, Chen Kaige and Zhang Yimou, went on to produce celebrated works such as ''[[King of Children]]'' (1987), ''[[Ju Dou]]'' (1989), ''[[Farewell My Concubine (film)|Farewell My Concubine]]'' (1993) and ''[[Raise the Red Lantern]]'' (1991), which were not only acclaimed by Chinese cinema-goers but by the Western [[art film|arthouse]] audience. [[Tian Zhuangzhuang]]'s films, though less well-known by Western viewers, were well noted by directors such as [[Martin Scorsese]]. It was during this period that Chinese cinema began reaping the rewards of international attention, including the 1988 [[Golden Bear (award)|Golden Bear]] for ''[[Red Sorghum]]'', the 1992 [[Golden Lion]] for Zhang Yimou's ''[[The Story of Qiu Ju]]'', the 1993 [[Palme d'Or]] for ''[[Farewell My Concubine (film)|Farewell My Concubine]]'', and three [[Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film|Best Foreign Language Film]] nominations from the Academy Awards.<ref name=Greatfall/>

Extremely diverse in style and subject, the Fifth Generation directors' films ranged from black comedy ([[Huang Jianxin]]'s ''[[The Black Cannon Incident]]'', 1985) to the esoteric (Chen Kaige's ''[[Life on a String (film)|Life on a String]]'', 1991), but they share a common rejection of the socialist-realist tradition worked by earlier Chinese filmmakers in the Communist era. Other notable Fifth Generation directors include [[Wu Ziniu]], [[Hu Mei]], and [[Zhou Xiaowen]]. Some of their bolder works with political overtones were banned by Chinese authorities.

The Fourth Generation also returned to prominence. Given their label after the rise of the Fifth Generation, these were directors whose careers were stalled by the Cultural Revolution and who were professionally trained prior to 1966. [[Wu Tianming]], in particular, made outstanding contributions by helping to finance major Fifth Generation directors under the auspices of the [[Xi'an Film Studio]], while continuing to make films like ''[[Old Well (film)|Old Well]]'' (1986) and ''[[The King of Masks]]'' (1996).

The Fifth Generation movement effectively ended in the [[Tiananmen Square protests of 1989|1989 Tiananmen Incident]], although its major directors continued to produce notable works, such as ''[[The Emperor's Shadow]]'' (1996) by Zhou Xiaowen. Several of its filmmakers went into self-imposed exile: Wu Tianming moved to the [[United States]] (but has since returned), Huang Jianxin left for [[Australia]], while many others went into television-related works.

==The Sixth Generation and beyond, 1990s - present==
The recent era has seen the "return of the amateur filmmaker" as state [[censorship]] policies have produced an edgy underground film movement loosely referred to as the Sixth Generation. These films are shot quickly and cheaply, which produces a documentary feel, with long takes, hand-held cameras, ambient sound; more akin to [[Italian neorealism]] and [[cinéma vérité]] than the often lush productions of the Fifth Generation.<ref name=Greatfall>Rose, S. [http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,767253,00.html "The great fall of China"], ''[[The Guardian]]'', [[2002-08-01]]. Retrieved on [[2007-04-28]].</ref> Many films are joint ventures and projects with international investment. Some important Sixth Generation directors to have emerged are [[Wang Xiaoshuai]] (''[[The Days (film)|The Days]]'', ''[[Beijing Bicycle]]''), [[Zhang Yuan]] (''[[Beijing Bastards]]'', ''[[East Palace West Palace]]''), [[Jia Zhangke]] (''[[Xiao Wu]]'', ''[[Unknown Pleasures (film)|Unknown Pleasures]]'', ''[[Platform (film)|Platform]]'', ''[[The World (film)|The World]]'') and [[Lou Ye]] (''[[Suzhou River (film)|Suzhou River]]'', ''[[Summer Palace (film)|Summer Palace]]'').

Unlike the Fifth Generation, the Sixth Generation brings a more individualistic, anti-romantic life-view and pays more attention to contemporary urban life, especially those affected by disorientation. Many of their films have highlighted the negative attributes of China's entry into the modern capitalist market. [[Li Yang (director)|Li Yang]]'s ''[[Blind Shaft]]'' for example, is a chilling account of two murderous con-men in the unregulated and notoriously dangerous mining industry of northern China.<ref>{{cite web | url =http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504EFD7113CF934A35756C0A9659C8B63 | title = Filming the Dark Side Of Capitalism in China | accessdate = 2008-04-10 | author = Kahn, Joseph|date= 2003-05-07| publisher = New York Times}}</ref> While Jia Zhangke's ''[[The World (film)|The World]]'' emphasizes the emptiness of [[globalization]] in the backdrop of an internationally-themed amusement park.<ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/festivals/05/34/new_york2004.html | title = Minimalism and Maximalism: The 42nd New York Film Festival | accessdate = 2007-04-28 | author = Rapfogel, Jared |date= 2004-12| publisher = Senses of Cinema}}</ref><ref>{{cite web | url = http://www.cinema-scope.com/cs21/fea_kraicer_beijing.htm | title = Lost in Time, Lost in Space: Beijing Film Culture in 2004 | accessdate = 2007-04-28 | author = Kraicer, Shelly|date= | publisher = Cinema Scope No. 21}}</ref>

===New Documentary Movement===
Two decades of reform and commercialization have brought dramatic social changes in mainland China, reflected not only in fiction film but in a growing documentary movement. [[Wu Wenguang]]'s ''[[Bumming in Beijing: The Last Dreamers]]'' (1990) is now seen as one of the first work of this "[[New Documentary Movement]]" (NDM) in China of China's New Documentary.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/03/28/chinas_new_documentary.html|title=Dancing with Myself,Drifting with My Camera: The Emotional Vagabonds|publisher=Senses of Cinema|author=Reynaud, Berenice|date=September 2003|accessdate=2007-12-10}}</ref> Another internationally acclaimed documentary is [[Wang Bing (director)|Wang Bing]]'s epic nine hour tale of deindustrialization ''[[Tie Xi Qu: West of the Tracks]]'' (2003). [[Li Hong (filmaker)|Li Hong]], the first women in the NDM, in ''[[Out of Phoenix Bridge]]'' (1997) relates the story of four young women, who moving from rural areas to the big cities like millions of other men and women, have come to Beijing to make a living.

==New Chinese international cinema==
Chinese films have enjoyed box office success abroad. Films such as ''[[Farewell My Concubine (film)|Farewell My Concubine]]'', ''[[2046 (film)|2046]]'', ''[[Hero (2002 film)|Hero]]'', ''[[Suzhou River (film)|Suzhou River]]'', ''[[The Road Home]]'' and ''[[House of Flying Daggers]]'' have been critically acclaimed around the world. The [[Hengdian World Studios]] can be seen as the "Chinese Hollywood", with a total area of up to 330 ha. and
13 shooting bases, including a 1:1 copy of the [[Forbidden City]].

In 2000, the multi-national production ''[[Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon]]'' achieved massive success at the Western box office despite being dismissed by some Chinese cinema-goers for pandering to Western tastes. Nevertheless, it provided an introduction to Chinese cinema (and especially the [[Wuxia]] genre) for many and increased the popularity of many Chinese films which may have otherwise been relatively unknown to Westerners.

In 2002, ''[[Hero (2002 film)|Hero]]'' was made as a second attempt to produce a Chinese film with the international appeal of ''Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon''. The cast and crew featured many of the most famous Chinese actors who were also known to some extent in the West, including [[Jet Li]], [[Zhang Ziyi]], [[Maggie Cheung]], [[Tony Leung Chiu-Wai]], directed by [[Zhang Yimou]]. The film was a phenomenal success in most of [[Asia]] and topped the U.S. box office for two weeks, making enough in the U.S. alone to cover the production costs.

The successes of ''Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon'' and ''Hero'' blur what may be called the boundary between Mainland Chinese cinema and a more international-based "Chinese-language cinema". ''Crouching Tiger'', for example, was directed by a [[Taiwan]]ese director ([[Ang Lee]]), but its leads include [[Mainland China|Mainland Chinese]], [[Hong Kong]], and [[Taiwan]] actors and actresses while the film was co-produced by an array of Chinese, American, Hong Kong, Taiwanese film companies. This merging of people, resources, and expertise from three regions (China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan) seemed to imply big-budgeted Chinese-language cinema is moving toward a more international-based arena looking to compete with the best Hollywood films. Further examples of films in this mould would include ''[[House of Flying Daggers]]'' (2004), ''[[The Promise (2005 film)|The Promise]]'' (2005) and ''[[The Banquet (2006 film)|The Banquet]]'' (2006). Tighter-financed Chinese-language cinema are still relatively localized in content, as seen in those from Hong Kong, Mainland China and Taiwan, especially in the latter two where many films have not yet found international distributors abroad.

==Sources==

*''Film History: An Introduction''. Kristin Thompson and David Bordwell. Second edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 2002.
*''The Oxford History of World Cinema''. Geoffrey Nowell-Smith (ed). Oxford University Press, 1999.

==See also==
* [[East Asian cinema]]
* [[Chinese animation]]
* [[Chinese art]]

===Related cinema===
* [[Cinema of Hong Kong]]
** [[Hong Kong action cinema]]
* [[Cinema of Taiwan]]

===Lists===
* [[List of Chinese actors]]
* [[List of Chinese actresses]]
* [[List of Chinese directors]]
* [[List of Chinese films]]
* [[List of Chinese film production companies (pre-PRC)]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==Further reading==
*Rey Chow, ''Primitive Passions: Visuality, Sexuality, Ethnography, and Contemporary Chinese Cinema'', Columbia University Pres 1995.
*Shuqin Cui, ''Women Through the Lens: Gender and Nation in a Century of Chinese Cinema'', University of Hawaii Press 2003.
*Dai Jinhua, ''Cinema and Desire: Feminist Marxism and Cultural Politics in the Work of Dai Jinhua'', eds. Jing Wang and Tani E. Barlow. London: Verso 2002.
*Laikwan Pang, ''Building a New China in Cinema: The Chinese Left-Wing Cinema Movement, 1932-1937'', Rowman & Littlefield Pub Inc 2002.
*[[Jay Leyda]], ''Dianying'', MIT Press, 1972.
*Harry H. Kuoshu, ''Celluloid China: Cinematic Encounters with Culture and Society'', Southern Illinois University Press 2002 - introduction, discusses 15 films at length.
*Gary G. Xu, ''Sinascape: Contemporary Chinese Cinema'', Rowman & Littlefield, 2007.
*Yingjin Zhang, ''Chinese National Cinema'' (National Cinemas Series.), Routledge 2004 - general introduction.
*Yingjin Zhang (Author), Zhiwei Xiao (Author, Editor), ''Encyclopedia of Chinese Film'', Routledge, 1998.
*Cheng, Jim, ''Annotated Bibliography For Chinese Film Studies'', Hong Kong University Press 2004.

==External links==
* {{dmoz|Arts/Movies/Cultures_and_Groups/Asian/Chinese/|Chinese Cinema}}
* [http://www.intellectbooks.co.uk/journals.php?issn=17508061 Journal of Chinese Cinema]

{{CinemaofChina}}
{{Worldcinema}}
{{People's Republic of China topics|state=autocollapse}}

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[[Category:Arts in China]]
[[Category:Film industries]]

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Gong Li

2008-07-18T22:38:07Z

Rungbachduong: + image

{{weasel}}

{{Infobox Chinese actor and singer
| image= Gong li moscow edited.jpg
| tradchinesename = 鞏俐
| simpchinesename = 巩俐
| birthdate = {{birth date and age|1965|12|31}}
| birthplace = {{flagicon|China}} [[Shenyang]], [[China]]
| spouse = Ooi Wei Ming (1996-)
| hongkongfilmwards = '''Best Actress''' 2007 ''[[Curse of the Golden Flower]]''
| goldenroosterawards = '''Best Actress''' 1993 ''[[The Story of Qiu Ju]]'' 2000 ''[[Breaking the Silence (film)|Breaking the Silence]]''
| awards = '''[[National Board of Review Award for Best Supporting Actress|NBR Award for Best Supporting Actress]]''' 2005 ''[[Memoirs of a Geisha (film)|Memoirs of a Geisha]]'' '''[[New York Film Critics Circle Award for Best Supporting Actress|NYFCC Award for Best Supporting Actress]]''' 1993 ''[[Farewell My Concubine (film)|Farewell My Concubine]]'' '''[[Venice Film Festival|Volpi Cup for Best Actress]]''' 1992 ''[[The Story of Qiu Ju]]''
}}

{{chinese name|Gong}}

'''Gong Li''' ({{zh-stp |s=巩俐 |t=鞏俐 |p=Gǒng Lì}}) (born [[December 31]], [[1965]]) is a two-time [[Golden Rooster Awards|Golden Rooster]], two-time [[Hundred Flowers Awards|Hundred Flowers Award]], [[Berlin International Film Festival|Berlinale Camera]], [[Cannes Film Festival|Cannes]] Festival Trophy, [[National Board of Review]], [[New York Film Critics Circle Award]], and [[Venice Film Festival|Volpi Cup]] winning [[Chinese people|Chinese]] film actress. She first came into international prominence through close collaboration with Chinese director [[Zhang Yimou]] and is credited with helping bring Chinese cinema to Europe and the United States.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE6DC143AF935A25754C0A9629C8B63|author = Kehr, Dave|date=2004-07-16|title=Torn Between a Dreamy Idealist and a Veterinarian|publisher = ''[[The New York Times]]''|accessdate=2008-01-07}}</ref>

==Biography==
===Early life===
Gong Li was born in [[Shenyang]], [[Liaoning]], China, the fifth child in her family. Her father was a professor of economics and her mother, who was 40 when Gong was born, was a teacher.<ref>[http://www.charlest.whipple.net/gongside.html Gong Li Sidebar]</ref> Gong grew up in [[Jinan]], the capital of [[Shandong]] Province. She wished to be an actress from a young age{{Fact|date=July 2008}}. She was accepted to the Beijing Central College of Drama in 1985 and graduated in 1989.<ref>[http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/Biography.asp?ctr=620460 Gong Li Biography - Barnes & Noble.com]</ref> She was a student there when [[Zhang Yimou]] chose her in 1987 for the lead role in his first film as a director.<ref name=asiaweek1>Ghahremani, Yasmin; Stanmeyer, Anastacia ([[1999-09-24]]), "Nation builders". ''Asiaweek''. '''25''' (38):74</ref>

===Career===
Over the next several years after her 1987 debut in ''[[Red Sorghum]]'', Gong received both local and international acclaim for her roles in several more Zhang Yimou films, becoming his muse.<ref name=NYT2>Dargis, Manohla ([[2004-12-05]]), "Glamour's New Orientation". ''New York Times''. '''154''' (53054):Arts & Leisure 1</ref> She appeared in ''[[Ju Dou]]'' in 1990. Her performance in the Oscar-nominated ''[[Raise the Red Lantern]]'' thrust her into the international spotlight.<ref name=asiaweek1/> and ''[[The Story of Qiu Ju]]'', for which she was named Best Actress at the [[1992]] [[Venice Film Festival]]. The roles help solidify her reputation as, according to ''[[Asiaweek]]'', one of the "world's most glamorous movie stars and an elegant throwback to Hollywood's golden era."<ref name=asiaweek1/> Gong and Zhang, however were not only colleagues but lovers. When Gong ended their personal relationship in 1995 (marrying a businessman the following year), their professional relationship ended as well.<ref name=NYT2/>

In 1993 she received a [[New York Film Critics Circle]] award for her role in ''[[Farewell My Concubine (film)|Farewell My Concubine]]''. Directed by [[Chen Kaige]], the film was at the time her first major role with a director other than Zhang Yimou. In [[2006]], ''[[Premiere (magazine)|Premiere Magazine]]'' ranked her performance as the 89th greatest performance of all time.

With her ascent and influence, Gong began to criticize the censorship policy in China. Her films ''Farewell My Concubine'' and ''The Story of Qiu Ju'' were both initially banned in her native land, reportedly for being thinly-veiled critiques of the government.<ref name=asiaweek2>No byline ([[2000-02-25]]), "FIRST LADY OF FILM". ''Asiaweek''. '''26''' (7):34</ref> In regards to the sexual material in Ju Dou, one official called the film "a bad influence on the physical and spiritual health of young people."<ref name=NYT2>She said (translated) "Under the new wave of directors, films in China are getting more in depth and have more Chinese characteristics than before. But mainland directors face an entirely different system from their counterparts elsewhere. You can't just make whatever films you like."<ref name=asiaweek1/>

She retains a very strong popularity in most Asian countries and is prized for both her talents and beauty .{{Fact|date=October 2007}} In addition to acting, she is also an exceptional singer, as demonstrated during her performance in the [[1998]] film ''[[Shanghai Triad]]''.{{Fact|date=October 2007}} Her international acclaim was demonstrated when she became a recipient of France's [[Ordre des Arts et des Lettres]] in June 1998. She was also chosen to be the
president of the international jury of the 50th annual Berlin Film Festival in 2000.<ref name=asiaweek2/>

Gong and Zhang had not worked together since 1995 when, in 2006, they were finally reunited for Zhang's ''[[Curse of the Golden Flower]]'', in which she played the beautiful, and ultimately dying, Golden Phoenix.

Gong was a spokesperson for [[Shanghai Tang]] clothing store.<ref>Gault, Ylonda; Fannin, Rebecca A. ([[1997-07-14]]), "Hong Kong retail giant Tang ready to pluck Big Apple". ''Advertising Age''. '''68''' (28):33</ref>

Gong wrote the introduction to the 2001 book "Chinese Opera".<ref>Dopp, Bonnie Jo ([[2001-10-15]]), "Chinese Opera". ''Library Journal''. '''126''' (17):78</ref>

Despite her high profile, Gong put off working on [[Hollywood]] films for years, due to both her lack of confidence in speaking [[English language|English]] and her discontent with the types of roles that had been offered to her<ref>[http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1138891_3,00.html The Women of ''Memoirs of a Geisha'' | Memoirs of a Geisha | Movie News | Movies | Entertainment Weekly | 3]</ref>. Her first major English-language role came in 2005 when she starred as the beautiful but vindictive Hatsumomo in ''[[Memoirs of a Geisha (film)|Memoirs of a Geisha]]''. Her performance met generally rave reviews.<ref>Lyttle, John ([[2006-01-16]]), "The eastern affront". ''New Statesman'', '''135''' (4775):47</ref>

Her other English-language roles to date have been in ''[[Miami Vice (film)|Miami Vice]]'' in [[2006]] and ''[[Hannibal Rising (film)|Hannibal Rising]]'' in [[2007]]. In all three films, she learned her English lines [[phonetically]].

==Controversy==
Gong created a major stir at Peking University in 2000 when the university accepted her to take an undergraduate degree course in social studies. Students of the institution felt her celebrity status allowed her to "jump the queue" when other prospective students are held to much more competitive standards. In her defence, Gong said she simply wanted to "pursue the spirit of learning."<ref>No byline ([[2000-05-19]]), "Too Pretty for School?". ''Asiaweek''. '''26''' (19):45</ref>

==Personal life==
Her relationship with [[Zhang Yimou]] was both professional and romantic and they created a scandal for being lovers during their long [[collaboration]], despite Zhang having been married at the time. The couple eventually broke up in [[1995]]. In 1996, rumors began circulating that Gong had married [[Singaporean]] tobacco tycoon [[Ooi Hoe Soeng]] (黄和祥), allegations she denied until a Singapore tabloid printed a copy of the marriage certificate.<ref name=people>No byline ([[1997-02-10]]), "Gong Li & Ooi Hoe Seong". ''People''. '''47''' (5):112</ref> They eventually had a wedding reception that November at Hong Kong's China Club.<ref>Louie, Elaine ([[1996-10-29]]), "Chronicle:Gong Li". ''New York Times''. '''146''' (50595):B16</ref><ref name=people/>
She has a reputation for being elusive and is very private about her personal life.
[[As of 2007]], she is said to be able to speak fluent conversational English.{{Fact|date=May 2008}}

== Filmography ==

{| class="wikitable"
!align="left" valign="top" width="40"|Year
!align="left" valign="top"|English Title
!align="left" valign="top"|Chinese Title
!align="left" valign="top"|Role
!align="left" valign="top"|Notes
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1987 in film|1987]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Red Sorghum]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|红高梁
|align="left" valign="top"|My Grandma
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1989 in film|1989]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[The Empress Dowager (1989)|The Empress Dowager]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|西太后
|align="left" valign="top"|Guilian
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1989
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Mr. Sunshine (film)|Mr. Sunshine]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|開心巨無霸
|align="left" valign="top"|
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1989
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Codename Cougar]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|代号美洲豹
|align="left" valign="top"|Ah Li
|align="left" valign="top"|[[Hundred Flowers Award]] for Best Supporting Actress, 1989
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1990 in film|1990]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[A Terracotta Warrior]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|秦俑
|align="left" valign="top"|Winter/Lili Chu
|align="left" valign="top"|Nominated for [[Hong Kong Film Awards]] for Best Actress
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1990
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Ju Dou]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|菊豆
|align="left" valign="top"|Ju Dou
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1991 in film|1991]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[God of Gamblers III: Back to Shanghai]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|賭俠2之上海灘賭聖
|align="left" valign="top"|Yu-Sin/Yu-Mong
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1991
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Raise the Red Lantern]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|大红灯笼高高挂
|align="left" valign="top"|Songlian
|align="left" valign="top"|[[Hundred Flowers Award]] for Best Actress, 1993
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1991
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[The Banquet (1991 film)|The Banquet]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|豪門夜宴
|align="left" valign="top"|Waitress at banquet
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1992 in film|1992]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[The Story of Qiu Ju]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|秋菊打官司
|align="left" valign="top"|Qiu Ju
|align="left" valign="top"|[[Golden Rooster Awards]] for Best Actress, 1993 Volpi Cup ([[Venice Film Festival]]) for Best Actress
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1992
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Mary from Beijing]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|夢醒時分
|align="left" valign="top"|Mary
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1993 in film|1993]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Farewell My Concubine (film)|Farewell My Concubine]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|霸王别姬
|align="left" valign="top"|Juxian
|align="left" valign="top"|[[NYFCC Award]] for Best Supporting Actress, 1993
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1993
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Flirting Scholar]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|唐伯虎點秋香
|align="left" valign="top"|Chow Heung
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1994 in film|1994]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Dragon Chronicles: The Maidens of Heavenly Mountain]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|新天龍八部之天山童姥
|align="left" valign="top"|Mo Han-Wen
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1994
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[A Soul Haunted by Painting]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|画魂
|align="left" valign="top"|Pan Yuliang
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1994
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[To Live (film)|To Live]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|活着
|align="left" valign="top"|Xu Jiazhen
|align="left" valign="top"|Nominated for [[Chlotrudis Award]] for Best Actress, 1995
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|1994
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[King of Western Chu]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|西楚霸王
|align="left" valign="top"|Lu Zi
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1995 in film|1995]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Shanghai Triad]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|摇啊摇，摇到外婆桥
|align="left" valign="top"|Xiao Jingbao
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1996 in film|1996]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Temptress Moon]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|风月
|align="left" valign="top"|Pang Ruyi
|align="left" valign="top"|Nominated for [[Hong Kong Film Awards]] for Best Actress, 1997
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1997 in film|1997]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Chinese Box]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|
|align="left" valign="top"|Vivian
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[1999 in film|1998]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[The Emperor and the Assassin]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|荆柯刺秦王
|align="left" valign="top"|Lady Zhao
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[2000 in film|2000]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Breaking the Silence (film)|Breaking the Silence]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|漂亮妈妈
|align="left" valign="top"|Sun Liying
|align="left" valign="top"|[[Golden Rooster Awards]] for Best Actress, 2000 [[Montreal World Film Festival]] for Best Actress, 2000
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[2002 in film|2002]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Zhou Yu's Train]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|周渔的火车
|align="left" valign="top"|Zhou Yu
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[2004 in film|2004]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[2046 (film)|2046]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|2046
|align="left" valign="top"|Su Li Zhen
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|2004
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Eros (film)|Eros]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|
|align="left" valign="top"|Miss Hua
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|2005
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Memoirs of a Geisha (film)|Memoirs of a Geisha]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|艺伎回忆录
|align="left" valign="top"|Hatsumomo
|align="left" valign="top"|Nominated for [[Satellite Award for Best Supporting Actress|Satellite Award for Outstanding Actress in a Supporting Role - Motion Picture Drama]]
Best Supporting actress-National Board of Review
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[2006 in film|2006]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Miami Vice (film)|Miami Vice]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|
|align="left" valign="top"|Isabella
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|2006
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Curse of the Golden Flower]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|满城尽带黄金甲
|align="left" valign="top"|Empress Phoenix
|align="left" valign="top"|[[Hong Kong Film Awards]] for Best Actress, 2007/ Hong Kong Film critics award for Best Actress, 2007
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|[[2007 in film|2007]]
|align="left" valign="top"|''[[Hannibal Rising (film)|Hannibal Rising]]''
|align="left" valign="top"|
|align="left" valign="top"|Lady Murasaki Shikibu Lecter
|align="left" valign="top"|
|-
|align="left" valign="top"|2008
|align="left" valign="top"|Shanghai
|align="left" valign="top"|
|align="left" valign="top"|Anna
|align="left" valign="top"|
|}

==Other information==
*Gong Li was voted the most beautiful person in China.<ref>{{cite news|first=|last=|title=Gong Li voted China's Most Beautiful Person|url=http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/lifestyle/2006-05/23/content_597722.htm|publisher=China Daily|date=[[May 23]], [[2006]]|accessdate=2007-03-17}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|first=Shen|last=Min|title=Gong Li Voted China's Most Beautiful Star|url=http://english.cri.cn/349/2006/05/22/44@92879.htm|publisher=|date=[[May 22]], [[2006]]|accessdate=2007-03-17}}</ref>
*One of the [[B-sides]] of [[Red Hot Chili Peppers]] single ''[[Scar Tissue]]'', from the album ''[[Californication (album)|Californication]]'', is called [[Gong Li]].

==See also==
* [[Cinema of China]]

==Footnotes==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*{{imdb name|id=0000084|name=Gong Li}}

{{CinemaofChina}}



{{Persondata
|NAME = Gong, Li
|ALTERNATIVE NAMES = 巩俐 (Chinese)
|SHORT DESCRIPTION = Chinese actress
|DATE OF BIRTH = [[December 31]], [[1965]]
|PLACE OF BIRTH = [[Shenyang]], [[China]]
|DATE OF DEATH =
|PLACE OF DEATH =
}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Gong, Li}}
[[Category:1965 births]]
[[Category:Best Actress HKFA]]
[[Category:Chinese actors]]
[[Category:Chinese female models]]
[[Category:Living people]]

[[ar:جونج لي]]
[[da:Gong Li]]
[[de:Gong Li]]
[[el:Γκονγκ Λι]]
[[es:Gong Li]]
[[eo:Gong Li]]
[[fa:گونگ لی]]
[[fr:Gong Li]]
[[id:Gong Li]]
[[it:Gong Li]]
[[nl:Gong Li]]
[[ja:コン・リー]]
[[no:Gong Li]]
[[pl:Li Gong]]
[[sq:Gong Li]]
[[fi:Gong Li]]
[[sv:Li Gong]]
[[th:กงลี่]]
[[vi:Củng Lợi]]
[[tr:Gong Li]]
[[zh:巩俐]]

Diaolou

2008-07-15T20:37:00Z

Rungbachduong: + interwiki

{{Infobox World Heritage Site
| WHS = Kaiping Diaolou and Villages
| Image = [[Image:Rui_Shi_Lou.jpg|thumb|right|Ruishi Diaolou 瑞石樓]]
| State Party = [[Image:Flag of the People's Republic of China.svg|22px]] [[People's Republic of China|China]]
| Type = Cultural
| Criteria = ii, iii, iv
| ID = 1112
| Region = [[List of World Heritage Sites in Asia and Australasia|Asia-Pacific]]
| Year = 2007
| Session = 31st
| Extension =
| Link = http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1112
}}

The '''diaolou''' (碉樓) are fortified multi-storey towers, generally made of [[reinforced concrete]]. These towers are located mainly in [[Kaiping]] County, [[Guangdong]] province, China. Kaiping together with its neighbouring counties of [[Enping]], [[Taishan]] and [[Xinhui]] are collectively known as the "[[Sze Yup|Four counties]]". It was from the four counties that many of the Chinese labourers to [[North America]], [[Australia]], and [[Southeast Asia]] originated from.

Also known as the "Kaiping diaolou", the first towers were built during the early [[Qing Dynasty]], reaching a peak in the 1920s and 1930s, when there were more than three thousand of these structures. Today, approximately 1,833 diaolou remain standing in Kaiping, and approximately 500 in Taishan. Although the diaolou served mainly as protection against forays by bandits, a few of them also served as living quarters.

Kaiping has traditionally been a region of major emigration abroad, and a [[melting pot]] of ideas and trends brought back by [[overseas Chinese]]. As a result, many diaolou incorporate architectural features from China and from the West.

In 2007, [[UNESCO]] named the [[Kaiping Diaolou and Villages]] in China as a [[World Heritage Site]]. UNESCO wrote, "...the Diaolou ... display a complex and flamboyant fusion of Chinese and Western structural and decorative forms. They reflect the significant role of émigré Kaiping people in the development of several countries in South Asia, Australasia, and North America, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and the close links between overseas Kaiping and their ancestral homes. The property inscribed here consists of four groups of Diaolou, totaling some 1,800 tower houses in their village settings."

==Examples==
'''Ruishi Diaolou''', located behind Jinjiangli Village, Xianggang Township. Constructed in 1921, it has nine floors and is the highest diaolou at Kaiping. It features a Byzantine style roof and a Roman dome.

The '''Majianglong''' diaolou cluster spread across the villages of '''Nan'an li''', '''He'dong li''', Qing lin li''', '''Long jiang li''' and '''[http://www.generasian.ca/roots3.html Yong'an li]'''.

'''Li Garden''', in Beiyi Xiang, was constructed in 1936 by Mr. Xie Weili, a Chinese emigrant to the United States.

'''Fangshi Denglou''' - Built in 1920 after contributions from villagers, this denglou is five stories high. It is referred to as the "Light Tower" because it had an enormous searchlight as bright as the beam of a lighthouse.

'''Bianchouzhu Lou''' (The Leaning Tower), located in Nanxing Village was constructed in 1903. It has seven floors and overlooks a pond.

'''Tianlu Lou''' (Tower of Heavenly Success), located in '''[http://www.generasian.ca/diaolou.html Yong'an li]''', was built in 1922 and is seven storeys tall plus a roof top floor.

==External links==
{{commons|Category:Diaolou|Diaolou}}
* [http://www.generasian.ca/diaolou.html A Hoyping (Kaiping) descendant visits his ancestral village and its diaolou]
* [http://youtube.com/watch?v=FNfx-0yTkKA A personal diaolou slideshow movie]
* [http://www.apex.net.au/~jgk/taishan/diaolou.html Diaolous or Gold Mountain Houses in the Wuyi Region]
* [http://www.icm.gov.mo/exhibition/tc/kpintroE.asp Information about the diaolou]
* [http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1112 Kaiping Diaolou and Villages - UNESCO World Heritage Centre]
* [http://www.flickr.com/photos/olaer/sets/72157603831003654/ Kaiping photo collection of diaolou]

{{World Heritage Sites in China}}

[[Category:Buildings and structures in Guangdong]]
[[Category:Chinese architecture]]
[[Category:World Heritage Sites in China]]
[[Category:Jiangmen]]
[[Category:Kaiping]]
[[Category:Enping]]
[[Category:Taishan]]

[[cs:Tiao-lou]]
[[de:Diaolou]]
[[es:Diaolou]]
[[fr:Diaolou]]
[[it:Diaolou]]
[[ja:開平楼閣と村落]]
[[pt:Diaolou e aldeias de Kaiping]]
[[ru:Дяолоу]]
[[vi:Điêu lâu Khai Bình]]
[[zh-yue:開平碉樓]]
[[zh:开平碉楼与村落]]

List of World Heritage Sites in China

2008-07-15T20:36:13Z

Rungbachduong: /* List */ update

This is a list of [[UNESCO]] [[World Heritage Sites]] in [[China]]. China has 35, ranking third in the world. China ratified The Convention Concerning the Protection of the World Cultural and Natural Heritage on [[December 12]], [[1985]]. These sites comprise the most essential part of China's valuable and rich [[Tourism in China|tourism]] resources.

== Overview ==
In August 2004, the 28th Session of UNESCO's [[World Heritage Committee]] (WHC) was held in the famous historical and cultural city of Suzhou. The convention decided to add to the World Heritage List the capital cities and tombs of the ancient Koguryo Kingdom, the Imperial Palace of the Qing Dynasty in Shenyang, and three imperial mausoleums of Shengjing in Liaoning Province. Dating back some 2,000 years, the ancient Koguryo Kingdom sites are located mainly in Ji'an city, Jilin Province and Huanren County, Liaoning Province, including three cities, 12 tombs of Koguryo kings, 26 tombs of the nobility, Haotaiwang Stele and No.1 Grave of the General's Tomb. The Imperial Palace in Shenyang and the three imperial mausoleums were included in the list as extensions to the Imperial Palace and Tombs of the Ming and Qing Dynasties.

Since joining the International Convention Concerning the Protection of World Cultural and Natural Heritage in 1985, China has '''35''' world heritage sites to date; of these '''25''' are cultural heritage sites, '''six''' are natural heritage sites, and '''four''' are cultural and natural (mixed) sites, ranking third in the world. Since 2004, China has made the first large-scale renovations on six world cultural heritage sites in Beijing - the [[Ming Tombs]], the [[Great Wall]], the [[Forbidden City]], the [[Temple of Heaven]], the [[Summer Palace]], and the "[[Peking Man]]" site at [[Zhoukoudian]], all of which are planned for completion before 2008. In addition, China has a rich non-material cultural heritage, one of the world's richest. [[Kunqu Opera]] and the art of playing the [[guqin]], a seven-stringed [[zither]], are among UNESCO's list of Masterpieces of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity. The ancient Naxi Dongba literature manuscripts have also been inscribed on the World Heritage List. In 2001, Chinese Tibetan epic [[King Gesar]], the longest epic in the world, was listed by UNESCO in the world millennium memorials.

== List ==
:<nowiki>*</nowiki> = World Cultural Site
:<nowiki>†</nowiki> = World Natural Site
:<nowiki>*†</nowiki> = World Cultural and Natural Site (Mixed)

*The [[Great Wall of China|Great Wall]] (1987)*
*[[Mount Taishan]], [[Shandong]] province (1987)*†
*Imperial Palaces of the [[Ming Dynasty|Ming]] and [[Qing Dynasty|Qing]] Dynasties in [[Beijing]] (the [[Forbidden City]]) (1987) and [[Shenyang]] ([[Mukden Palace]]) (2004)*
*[[Mogao Caves]], [[Dunhuang]], [[Gansu]] proivince (1987)*
*[[Terracotta Army|Mausoleum]] of the [[Qin Shi Huang Di|First Qin Emperor]] in [[Xian|Xi'an]], [[Shaanxi]] province (1987)*
*[[Peking Man]] Site at [[Zhoukoudian]], [[Beijing]] municipality (1987)*
*[[Mount Huangshan]], [[Anhui]] province (1990)*†
*[[Jiuzhaigou Valley]] Scenic and Historic Interest Area, [[Sichuan]] province (1992)†
*[[Huanglong]] Scenic and Historic Interest Area, Sichuan province (1992)†
*[[Wulingyuan]] Scenic and Historic Interest Area, [[Hunan]] province (1992)†
*[[Mountain Resort]] and its Outlying Temples in [[Chengde]], [[Hebei]] province (1994)*
*Temple and Cemetery of [[Confucius]], and the Kong Family Mansion in [[Qufu]], [[Shandong]] province (1994)*
*Ancient Building Complex in the [[Wudang Mountains]], [[Hubei]] province (1994)*
*Historic Ensemble of the [[Potala Palace]], including the [[Jokhang Temple]] and [[Norbulingka]], [[Lhasa]], [[Tibet]] (1994, 2000, 2001)*
*[[Lushan National Geological Park|Lushan National Park]], [[Jiangxi]] province (1996)*
*[[Mount Emei]] Scenic Area, including [[Leshan Giant Buddha]] Scenic Area, [[Sichuan]] province (1996)*†
*Old Town of [[Lijiang City|Lijiang]], [[Yunnan]] province (1997)*
*Ancient City of [[Ping Yao]], [[Shanxi]] province (1997)*
*Classical Gardens of [[Suzhou]], [[Jiangsu]] province (1997, 2000)*
*[[Summer Palace]], an Imperial Garden in Beijing (1998)*
*[[The Temple of Heaven|Temple of Heaven]]: an Imperial Sacrificial Altar in Beijing (1998)*
*[[Mount Wuyi]], [[Fujian]] province (1999)*†
*[[Dazu Rock Carvings]], [[Chongqing]] municipality (1999)*
*[[Mount Qingcheng]] and the [[Dujiangyan Irrigation System]], [[Sichuan]] province (2000)*
*Ancient Villages in Southern [[Anhui]] - [[Xidi]] and [[Hongcun]] (2000)*
*[[Longmen Grottoes]], [[Luoyang]], [[Henan]] province (2000)*
*[[Imperial Tombs of the Ming and Qing Dynasties]], including the [[Ming Dynasty Tombs]] and the [[Ming Xiaoling Mausoleum]] (2000, 2003, 2004)*
*[[Yungang Grottoes]], [[Datong]], [[Shanxi]] province (2001)*
*Three Parallel Rivers of [[Yunnan]] Protected Areas (2003)†
*Capital Cities and Tombs of the Ancient [[Goguryeo]] Kingdom, [[Jilin Province|Jilin]] and [[Liaoning Province|Liaoning]] provinces (2004)†
*[[Historic Centre of Macau]] (2005)*
*[[Sichuan Giant Panda Sanctuaries]] (2006)†
*[[Yin Xu]], [[Henan]] province (2006)*
*[[Kaiping]] [[Diaolou]] and Villages, [[Guangdong]] province (2007)*
*[[South China Karst]], [[Yunnan]], [[Guizhou]] provinces and [[Chongqing]] municipality (2007)†
*[[Fujian Tulou]], [[Fujian]] province (2008)*
*[[Sanqingshan]], [[Jiangxi]] province (2008)†

==See also==
* [[Table of World Heritage Sites based on State Parties]]
* [[List of World Heritage Sites in Asia and Australasia]] (see template below for more regions)
* [[Organization of World Heritage Cities]]
* [[List of UNESCO Biosphere Reserves in China]]

==References==
*[http://english.gov.cn/2006-02/08/content_182625.htm World cultural and natural heritage in China]

==External links==
*[http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/cn China - UNESCO World Heritage Centre]
*[http://www.unesco.org/whc UNESCO World Heritage Sites] - Official site
*[http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31 UNESCO World Heritage Centre] - Official site
*[http://whc.unesco.org/heritage.htm List of UNESCO World Heritage Sites] - Official site

{{World Heritage Sites in China}}
{{Lists of World Heritage Sites}}

[[Category:World Heritage Sites in China| ]]
[[Category:China-related lists|World Heritage Sites]]

Fortifications of Vauban

2008-07-12T01:12:36Z

Rungbachduong: + interwiki

{{Infobox World Heritage Site
| WHS = Fortifications of Vauban
| Image = [[Image:Citadelle Besançon.jpg|300px|Citadel of [[Besançon]], [[Doubs]]]]
| State Party = {{FRA}}
| Type = Cultural
| Criteria = i, ii, iv, vi
| ID = 1283
| Region = [[List of World Heritage Sites in Europe|Europe and North America]]
| Year = 2008
| Session = 32nd
| Link = http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1283/
}}
[[Image:Carte des sites majeurs de Vauban.svg|thumb|300px|location of the sites]]
'''Fortifications of Vauban''' consists of 12 groups of fortified buildings and sites along the western, northern and eastern borders of [[France]]. They were designed by [[Vauban]] (1633–1707), and were added in 2008 to the list of [[UNESCO]] [[World Heritage Site]]s.

Numerous other places were fortified by Vauban. (see [[Vauban|article]] for details)

==List of sites==

[[Image:Neuf-Brisach 007 850.jpg|thumb|Neuf-Brisach]]

* [[Arras]], [[Pas-de-Calais]]: [[citadel]]
* [[Besançon]], [[Doubs]]: citadel, city walls and Fort Griffon
* [[Blaye]]-[[Cussac-Fort-Médoc]], [[Gironde]]: citadel of Blaye, city walls, Fort Paté and Fort Médoc
* [[Briançon]], [[Hautes-Alpes]]: city walls, Redoute des Salettes, Fort des Trois-Têtes, Fort du Randouillet, ''ouvrage de la communication Y'' and the Asfeld Bridge
* [[Camaret-sur-Mer]], [[Finistère]]: ''Tour dorée'' (lit. "Golden Tower") aka. ''Tour Vauban''
* [[Longwy]], [[Meurthe-et-Moselle]]: ''ville neuve''
* [[Mont-Dauphin]], [[Hautes-Alpes]]: ''place forte''
* [[Mont-Louis]], [[Pyrénées-Orientales]]: citadel and city walls
* [[Neuf-Brisach]], [[Haut-Rhin]]: ''ville neuve''/[[Breisach]] ([[Germany]]): gateway of the [[Rhine]]
* [[Saint-Martin-de-Ré]], [[Charente-Maritime]]: city walls and citadel
* [[Saint-Vaast-la-Hougue]]/[[Tatihou]], [[Manche]]: watchtowers
* [[Villefranche-de-Conflent]], [[Pyrénées-Orientales]]: city walls, Fort Libéria and Cova Bastera

Two sites initially considered were removed from the final list:
* [[Bazoches]], [[Nièvre]]: château
* [[Belle-Île-en-Mer]], [[Morbihan]]: citadel and walls surrounding [[Le Palais]]

== External links ==

{{commons|Category:Fortifications of Vauban|Fortifications of Vauban}}
* http://www.sites-vauban.org/ {{fr icon}}

{{World Heritage Sites in France}}
[[Category:Forts in France]]

[[fr:Réseau des sites majeurs de Vauban]]
[[it:Fortificazioni di Vauban]]
[[ja:ヴォーバンの作品]]
[[vi:Các pháo đài do Vauban thiết kế tại Pháp]]

Fortifications of Vauban

2008-07-12T01:12:22Z

Rungbachduong: + interwiki

{{Infobox World Heritage Site
| WHS = Fortifications of Vauban
| Image = [[Image:Citadelle Besançon.jpg|300px|Citadel of [[Besançon]], [[Doubs]]]]
| State Party = {{FRA}}
| Type = Cultural
| Criteria = i, ii, iv, vi
| ID = 1283
| Region = [[List of World Heritage Sites in Europe|Europe and North America]]
| Year = 2008
| Session = 32nd
| Link = http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1283/
}}
[[Image:Carte des sites majeurs de Vauban.svg|thumb|300px|location of the sites]]
'''Fortifications of Vauban''' consists of 12 groups of fortified buildings and sites along the western, northern and eastern borders of [[France]]. They were designed by [[Vauban]] (1633–1707), and were added in 2008 to the list of [[UNESCO]] [[World Heritage Site]]s.

Numerous other places were fortified by Vauban. (see [[Vauban|article]] for details)

==List of sites==

[[Image:Neuf-Brisach 007 850.jpg|thumb|Neuf-Brisach]]

* [[Arras]], [[Pas-de-Calais]]: [[citadel]]
* [[Besançon]], [[Doubs]]: citadel, city walls and Fort Griffon
* [[Blaye]]-[[Cussac-Fort-Médoc]], [[Gironde]]: citadel of Blaye, city walls, Fort Paté and Fort Médoc
* [[Briançon]], [[Hautes-Alpes]]: city walls, Redoute des Salettes, Fort des Trois-Têtes, Fort du Randouillet, ''ouvrage de la communication Y'' and the Asfeld Bridge
* [[Camaret-sur-Mer]], [[Finistère]]: ''Tour dorée'' (lit. "Golden Tower") aka. ''Tour Vauban''
* [[Longwy]], [[Meurthe-et-Moselle]]: ''ville neuve''
* [[Mont-Dauphin]], [[Hautes-Alpes]]: ''place forte''
* [[Mont-Louis]], [[Pyrénées-Orientales]]: citadel and city walls
* [[Neuf-Brisach]], [[Haut-Rhin]]: ''ville neuve''/[[Breisach]] ([[Germany]]): gateway of the [[Rhine]]
* [[Saint-Martin-de-Ré]], [[Charente-Maritime]]: city walls and citadel
* [[Saint-Vaast-la-Hougue]]/[[Tatihou]], [[Manche]]: watchtowers
* [[Villefranche-de-Conflent]], [[Pyrénées-Orientales]]: city walls, Fort Libéria and Cova Bastera

Two sites initially considered were removed from the final list:
* [[Bazoches]], [[Nièvre]]: château
* [[Belle-Île-en-Mer]], [[Morbihan]]: citadel and walls surrounding [[Le Palais]]

== External links ==

{{commons|Category:Fortifications of Vauban|Fortifications of Vauban}}
* http://www.sites-vauban.org/ {{fr icon}}

{{World Heritage Sites in France}}
[[Category:Forts in France]]

[[fr:Réseau des sites majeurs de Vauban]]
[[it:Fortificazioni di Vauban]]
[[ja:ヴォーバンの作品]]
[[en:Các pháo đài do Vauban thiết kế tại Pháp]]

Abigail Breslin

2008-07-10T20:40:59Z

Rungbachduong: /* Filmography */ - disambig

{{Infobox actor
| image = Abigail Breslin.jpg
| imagesize =
| caption = Breslin at Palm Springs Film Festival, [[2007]]
| birthdate = {{birth date and age|1996|4|14|}}
| birthplace = [[New York City]], [[United States]]
| birthname = Abigail Kathleen Breslin
| yearsactive = 2002 - present
| sagawards = '''[[Screen Actors Guild Award for Outstanding Performance by a Cast in a Motion Picture|Outstanding Cast in a Motion Picture]]''' 2006 ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
}}

'''Abigail Kathleen Breslin''' (born [[April 14]], [[1996]]) is an [[United States|American]] [[child actor|child actress]]. The fourth youngest actress ever to be nominated for a competitive [[Academy Award]], Breslin is known for her role in the film ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]'', as well as for several supporting parts in other [[Hollywood, Los Angeles, California|Hollywood]] films.

==Biography==
===Personal life===
Breslin was born in [[New York City]], [[New York]], the daughter of Kim, who manages Abigail's career, and Michael Breslin, a telecommunications expert, computer programmer and consultant.<ref name="Breslin3">{{cite news
|last=Rosen
|first=Steve
|coauthors=
|title=It’s our job to tell kids about work
|pages=
|publisher=The Kansas City Star
|date=2007-03-11
|url=http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/16877918.htm|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref><ref>[http://www.filmreference.com/film/7/Spencer-Breslin.html Spencer Breslin Biography (1992-)]</ref> Her maternal grandparents, Catherine and Lynn Blecker, are from [[New Jersey]], and now live in [[Lancaster County, Pennsylvania]].<ref name="Breslin12">{{cite news
|last=Stauffer
|first=Cindy
|coauthors=
|title=A little ray of sunshine
|pages=
|publisher=Lancaster Online
|date=2007-02-26
|url=http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/201101|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref><ref name="Breslin11">{{cite news
|last=Todd
|first=Jennifer
|coauthors=
|title=Proud couple watches granddaughter at Oscars
|pages=
|publisher=Lancaster Online
|date=2007-02-26
|url=http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/201081
|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref> She has two older brothers, Ryan and [[Spencer Breslin]], who is also an actor. Breslin lives in [[New York]] with her family, which her maternal grandparents have described as "very close-knit".<ref name="Breslin11" /><ref name="Breslin12" /> She is named after [[First Lady of the United States]] [[Abigail Adams]]<ref name="Breslin7">{{cite news
|last=Breslin
|first=Abigail
|coauthors=
|title=THE THINGS THEY SAY 4130
|pages=
|publisher=Contact Music
|date=2007-02-25
|url=http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/the%20things%20they%20say%204130_1023115
|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref> and collects [[American Girl (company)|American Girl]] dolls and [[stuffed animal]]s; she also has two dogs, two cats and a turtle. She wants to be a vet when she grows up and loves animals. In March 2008, Breslin joined the [[Girl Scouts of the USA|Girl Scouts of the United States of America]].

Breslin admits during a [[Total Request Live|TRL]] appearance that she does not have a [[MySpace]] profile.

===Career===
Prior to her star-making turn in ''Sunshine'', Breslin appeared in the films ''[[Signs (film)|Signs]]'' (2002), ''[[Raising Helen]]'' (in which Breslin and her brother Spencer played siblings), ''[[The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement]]'' (which Spencer also appeared in), ''[[Keane (film)|Keane]]'', ''Chestnut: Hero of Central Park'', and ''[[The Family Plan]]''. In 2006, Breslin starred in the comedy ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]'', playing a beauty pageant contestant, the youngest in a dysfunctional family on a [[road trip]]. Her co-stars, [[Greg Kinnear]] and [[Alan Arkin]], both mentioned that they were "astounded by her seriousness of purpose during shooting".<ref name="Breslin2">{{cite news
|last=Puig
|first=Claudia
|coauthors=
|title=Abigail: 'Little Miss Sunshine' highlights her winning ways
|pages=
|publisher=USA Today
|date=2006-12-21
|url=http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2006-12-21-kid-oscars-abigail_x.htm
|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref> For her performance, Breslin received a [[Screen Actors Guild Award]] Nomination, as well as an [[Academy Award]] nomination for Best Supporting Actress (on [[January 23]], [[2007]]). At the time of her nomination and at the age of ten years old, Breslin became the fourth youngest actress to be nominated for the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress. The three actresses younger than Breslin to receive the nomination were [[Tatum O'Neal]], [[Mary Badham]], and [[Quinn Cummings]]. Breslin's co-star, [[Alan Arkin]], did not want her to win the award, specifying that he thought that she has "had enough attention" and "needs to have a childhood".<ref name="Breslin10">{{cite news
|last=andPOP Staff
|first=
|coauthors=
|title=Arkin Wanted Breslin To Lose Academy Award
|pages=
|publisher=andPOP
|date=2007-02-18
|url=http://www.andpop.com/article/8670
|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref>

Although Breslin did not win the Oscar, she co-presented with [[Jaden Smith]] at the [[79th Academy Awards]] on [[February 25]], [[2007]]. Breslin was part of the Disney Year of a Million Dreams celebration. [[Annie Leibovitz]] photographed her as Fira from Disney Fairies with [[Julie Andrews]] as the Blue Fairy from Pinocchio. On [[October 27]], [[2007]], Breslin made her stage debut in the play ''Right You Are (If You Think You Are)'' in New York City at the Guggenheim Museum starring in an ensemble cast alongside [[Cate Blanchett]], [[Dianne Wiest]], [[Natalie Portman]] and [[Peter Sarsgaard]].<ref>[http://www.juniorcelebs.com/abigail-breslin-in-nyc/ Abigail Breslin in New York] Junior Celebs</ref> In 2007, Breslin was ranked #8 in [[Forbes]] Magazine's list of "Young Hollywood's Top-Earning Stars", having earned $1.5 million in 2006.<ref name="Breslin9">{{cite news
|last=Zap2It.com
|first=
|coauthors=
|title=Olsens top young rich list
|pages=
|publisher=JAM! Movies
|date=2007-02-28
|url=http://www.zap2it.com/movies/news/zap-forbesrichestunder21list2006,0,3648493.story|accessdate=2008-05-28
}}</ref>

Breslin was recently seen in the drama ''[[The Ultimate Gift]]'', playing a terminally ill girl. The film was shot in the fall of 2005 in [[Charlotte, North Carolina]]<ref name="Breslin6">{{cite news
|last=Toppman
|first=Lawrence
|coauthors=
|title=FILM GETS GALA PREMIERE
|pages=
|publisher=The Charlotte Observer
|date=2007-03-08
|url=http://charlotte.com/493/story/43992.html|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref> and opened on [[March 9]], [[2007]]. Reviewer Steve Persall of the [[St. Petersburg Times]] commented that Breslin "isn't a fluke, but will require smarter scripts until she matures".<ref name="Breslin5">{{cite news
|last=Persall
|first=Steve
|coauthors=
|title=‘Gift’ teaches big lessons
|pages=
|publisher=Telegram.com
|date=2007-03-10
|url=http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070310/NEWS/703100334/1102
|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref> Breslin next appeared in the romantic comedies ''[[No Reservations (film)|No Reservations]]'', playing the niece of a [[chef]], and ''[[Definitely, Maybe]]'', in which her character is the daughter of a single father ([[Ryan Reynolds]]).<ref name="Breslin8">{{cite news
|last=Strickler
|first=Jeff
|coauthors=
|title=What's next for the nominees
|pages=
|publisher=Star Tribune|date=2007-02-26
|url=http://www.startribune.com/1553/story/1025378.html
|accessdate=2007-03-12
}}</ref> In 2008, Breslin starred with former child star [[Jodie Foster]] in the film ''[[Nim's Island]]'' and will also headline ''[[Kit Kittredge: An American Girl]]'' as the title character.

==Filmography==
{| class="wikitable"
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"
! Year !! Title !! Role !! Notes
|-
|2002
|''[[Signs (film)|Signs]]''
|Bo Hess
|
|-
|rowspan="4"|2004
|''[[Raising Helen]]''
|Sarah Davis
|
|-
|''[[The Princess Diaries 2: Royal Engagement]]''
|Parade Girl Carolina
|
|-
|''[[Keane]]''
|Kira Bedik
|
|-
|''Chestnut: Hero of Central Park''
|Ray
|
|-
|2005
|''Family Plan''
|Nicole
|television movie
|-
|rowspan="5"|2006
|''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|[[Olive Hoover]]
|
|-
|''[[Imaginary Friend]]''
|Hally
|
|-
|''[[The Ultimate Gift]]''
|Emily Rose
|
|-
|''[[The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause]]''
|Trish
|
|-
|''[[Air Buddies]]''
|Rosebud
|direct-to-video voice
|-
|2007
|''[[No Reservations]]''
|Zoe
|
|-
|rowspan="3"|2008
|''[[Definitely, Maybe]]''
|Maya Hayes
|
|-
|''[[Nim's Island]]''
|Nim Rusoe
|
|-
|''[[Kit Kittredge: An American Girl]]''
|[[Kit Kittredge]]
|
|-
|2009
|''[[My Sister's Keeper]]''
|Andromeda 'Anna' Fitzgerald
|filming
|}

==TV guest appearances==
*''2008 Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards'' introducing [[The Naked Brothers Band]] with [[Ryan Sheckler]]
*''[[2007 Academy Awards]]'' presenting the awards with [[Jaden Smith]] for Best Animated Short and Best Live-Action Short
*''[[2006 Video Music Awards]]'' presenting the award with [[Stacy Ferguson|Fergie]] for Best New Artist
*''[[Ghost Whisperer]]'' playing Sarah Applewhite in episode: "Melinda's First Ghost"
*''[[NCIS (TV series)|NCIS]]'' playing Sandy Watson in episode: "[[See No Evil (NCIS)|See No Evil]]"
*''[[Law and Order: Special Victims Unit]]'' playing Patty Branson in episode: "Birthright"
*''[[What I Like About You (TV series)|What I Like About You]]'' playing Josie in episode: "Teddy Bear"
*''[[Hack (TV series)|''Hack'' (TV series)]]'' playing Kayla Adams in episode "Domestic Disturbance"
*''[[Grey's Anatomy]]'' playing Megan Clover in episode 303 "[[Grey's Anatomy episodes (Season 3)#Sometimes a Fantasy|Sometimes a Fantasy]]" (2006)

==Awards==
===Awards and Nominations===
{| class=wikitable
! Award !! Year !! Category !! Result !! Role
|-
| '''[[Academy Awards]]''' || 2007 || Best Actress in a Supporting Role || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''Alliance of Women Journalists''' (EDA Awards) || 2006 || Best Breakthrough Performance for a Young Actress || style="background: #ddffdd" | Won || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''[[BAFTA Awards]]''' || 2007 || Best Actress in a Supporting Role || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''[[Chicago Film Critics Association Awards]]''' || 2006 || Best Supporting Actress || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| rowspan=2 | '''[[Critics Choice Awards]]''' || rowspan=2 | 2007 || Best Young Actress || rowspan=2 style="background: #ddffdd" | Won || rowspan=2 | Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| Best Esemble Cast (Shared with cast)
|-
| '''[[Gotham Awards]]''' || 2006 || Breakthrough Actor || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''[[Iowa Film Critics Awards]]''' || 2006 || Best Supporting Actress || style="background: #ddffdd" | Won || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''[[2007 MTV Movie Awards|MTV Movie Awards]]''' || 2007 || Best Breakthrough Performance || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''Online Film Critics Awards''' || 2006 || Best Supporting Actress || style="background: #ddffdd" | Won || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''[[Phoenix Film Critics]]''' || 2006 || Best Performance by a Youth in a Lead or Supporting Role -Female || style="background: #ddffdd" | Won || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''[[Satellite Awards]]''' || 2006 || Best Actress in a Supporting Role || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| rowspan=2 | '''[[Screen Actors Guild]]''' ([[SAG]]) || rowspan=2 | 2007 || Supporting Actress || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || rowspan=2 | Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| Cast in a motion picture (Shared with cast) || style="background: #ddffdd" | Won
|-
| '''St. Louis Film Critics''' || || Best Supporting Actress || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''[[Tokyo International Film Festival]]''' || 2006 || Best Actress || style="background: #ddffdd" | Won || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| '''Women Film Critics Circle Awards''' || 2006 || Best Young Actress || style="background: #ddffdd" | Won || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| rowspan=3 | '''[[Young Artist Award]]''' || 2003 || Best Performance in a Feature Film Young Actress Age Ten or Under || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Bo Hess in ''[[Signs (film)|Signs]]''
|-
| 2007 || Best Performance in a Feature Film Young Actress Age Ten or Under || style="background: #ddffdd" | Won || Olive in ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]''
|-
| 2008 || Best Performance in a Feature Film Leading Young Actress || style="background: #ffdddd" | Nominated || Zoe Armstrong in ''[[No Reservations (film)|No Reservations]]''
|}

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*{{imdb|1113550}}
*{{amg name|2:328341}}
*{{tvtome person|162248}}
*[http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2008/07/breslin200807 Vanity Fair spotlight]
*[http://www.abigail-breslin.net Miss Abigail Breslin Online - Fansite]
*[http://tf.org/person/648 Abigail Breslin Filmography]
*[http://www.abigail-breslin.info Abigail Breslin News, 2 youtube Video and old Photos]
*[http://www.childstarlets.com/lobby/bios/abigail_breslin.html Abigail Breslin Image Library]

{{start box}} {{s-awards}}
|-
! colspan="3" style="background: #DAA520;" | [[Tokyo International Film Festival]]
|-
{{succession box
| title = [[Tokyo International Film Festival|Best Actress]]
| years = '''for ''[[Little Miss Sunshine]]'' ''' 2006
| before= [[Helena Bonham Carter]] for ''[[Conversations with Other Women]]''
| after = [[Shefali Shah]] for ''[[Gandhi, My Father]]''
}}
{{end box}}

{{Lifetime|1996||Breslin, Abigail}}
[[Category:1996 births]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:American child actors]]
[[Category:American film actors]]
[[Category:American voice actors]]
[[Category:American television actors]]
[[Category:New York actors]]
[[Category:People from New York City]]

[[ar:أبيجيل برسلين]]
[[de:Abigail Breslin]]
[[es:Abigail Breslin]]
[[fr:Abigail Breslin]]
[[hr:Abigail Breslin]]
[[it:Abigail Breslin]]
[[nl:Abigail Breslin]]
[[ja:アビゲイル・ブレスリン]]
[[no:Abigail Breslin]]
[[pl:Abigail Breslin]]
[[pt:Abigail Breslin]]
[[ru:Бреслин, Эбигейл]]
[[sr:Абигејл Бреслин]]
[[fi:Abigail Breslin]]
[[sv:Abigail Breslin]]
[[tr:Abigail Breslin]]
[[zh:艾碧·貝絲琳]]

Flickr

2008-07-09T11:12:21Z

Rungbachduong: /* Censorship */ Weasel

{{Infobox Website
| name = Flickr
| favicon =
| logo = [[Image:Flickr gamma Logo.svg|200px]]
| screenshot = 
| caption =
| url = [http://www.flickr.com/ Flickr.com]
| commercial = Yes
| type = [[Photo sharing|photo]]/ [[video sharing]] and Photo/Video networking
| registration =
| owner = [[Yahoo!]]
| language = [[Standard Cantonese|Chinese]] (traditional) [[English language|English]] (original) [[French language|French]] [[German language|German]] [[Italian language|Italian]] [[Portuguese language|Portuguese]] [[Spanish language|Spanish]] [[Korean language|Korean]]
| author = [[Ludicorp]]
| launch date = February 2004
| current status = Active
| revenue =
}}
'''Flickr''' is an [[image hosting service|image]] and [[video hosting service|video hosting]] [[website]], [[web services]] suite, and [[online community]] platform. It was one of the earliest [[Web 2.0]] applications. In addition to being a popular Web site for users to share personal photographs, the service is widely used by [[blog]]gers as a photo repository. Its popularity has been fuelled by its organization tools, which allow photos to be tagged and browsed by [[folksonomy|folksonomic]] means. [[As of November 2007]], it hosts more than two billion images.<ref>[http://blog.flickr.com/en/2007/11/13/holy-moly/ Holy moly! « Flickr Blog]</ref><ref>[http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/13/2-billion-photos-on-flickr/ 2 Billion Photos On Flickr]</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSHO94233920071119 |title=Flickr to map the world's latest photo hotspots |work = [[Reuters]] |last=Auchard |first=Eric |date= 2007-11-19 |accessdate = 2008-01-27 }}</ref>

==History==
Flickr was developed by [[Ludicorp]], a [[Vancouver, British Columbia]], [[Canada]]-based company founded in 2002. Ludicorp launched Flickr in February 2004. The service emerged out of tools originally created for Ludicorp's ''[[Game Neverending]]'', a web-based [[massively multiplayer online game]]. Flickr proved a more feasible project and ultimately ''Game Neverending'' was shelved.<ref>{{cite news
| last = Graham
| first = Jefferson
| title = Flickr of idea on a gaming project led to photo website
| work = [[USA Today]]
| date = [[2006-02-27]]
| url = http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2006-02-27-flickr_x.htm
| accessdate = 2006-09-04 }}</ref>

Early versions of Flickr focused on a multiuser [[chat room]] called FlickrLive with real-time photo exchange capabilities. There was also an emphasis on collecting images found on the web rather than photographs taken by users. The successive evolutions focused more on the uploading and filing backend for individual users and the chat room was buried in the site map. It was eventually dropped as Flickr's backend systems evolved away from the Game Neverending's codebase.

Some of the key features of Flickr not initially present were [[Tag (metadata)|tags]], marking photos as favorites, group photo pools and interestingness, for which a [[patent pending|patent is pending]].<ref>{{cite web
| url=http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220060242139%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20060242139&RS=DN/20060242139
| title=US Patent Application 20060242139: Interestingness ranking of media objects
| work=Butterfield; Daniel S. ; et al.
| accessdate=2007-01-21
| date=2006-10-26 }}</ref>

In March 2005, [[Yahoo!]] Inc. acquired Ludicorp and Flickr. During the week of [[June 28]], [[2005]], all content was migrated from servers in [[Canada]] to servers in the [[United States]], resulting in all data being subject to [[Law of the United States|United States federal law]].<ref>{{cite web
| title = Data moving to U.S. very soon!
| work = Flickr
| date = [[2005-06-10]]
| url = http://www.flickr.com/forums/help/8280/
| accessdate = 2006-09-04 }}</ref>

On [[May 16]], [[2006]], Flickr updated its services from [[Development stage#Beta|beta]] to "gamma", along with a design and structural overhaul. According to the site's [[FAQ]], the term "gamma", rarely used in software development, is intended to be [[tongue-in-cheek]] to indicate that the service is always being tested by its users, and is in a state of perpetual improvement.<ref>{{cite web
| title = What does Flickr Gamma mean?
| work = Flickr
| url = http://flickr.com/help/general/#167
| accessdate = 2006-09-04 }}</ref> For all intents and purposes, the current service is considered a stable release.

On [[December 29]], [[2006]] the upload limits on free accounts were increased to 100MB a month (from 20MB) and were removed from Pro Accounts, permitting unlimited uploads for holders of these accounts (originally a 2GB per month limit).<ref>{{cite web
| title = How many photos can I upload for free?
| work = Flickr
| url = http://www.flickr.com/help/limits/
| accessdate = 2007-05-16 }}</ref>

In January 2007, Flickr announced that the "Old Skool" members, those that pre-date the Yahoo acquisition, would be required to associate their account with a Yahoo ID by [[March 15]] to continue using the service.<ref>{{cite web
| title = Yahoo! IDs, signing in and screen names
| work = Flickr
| url = http://flickr.com/help/signin/
| accessdate = 2007-02-01 }}</ref> This move was criticized by some users.<ref>{{cite web|title=Flickr to require Yahoo usernames|work=BBC News|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6316761.stm|accessdate=2007-06-15}}</ref>

Flickr later added limits of 3,000 contacts and 75 tags for photos. Pre-existing accounts with over 3,000 contacts would not be able to add more until some were removed, with the same applying to tag limits. This contact limit no longer exists.

In June 2007, Flickr changed the tagline on its [[logo]] to "Flickr loves you".<ref>[http://www.flickr.com/photos/imelda/525484812/ flickr Loves You - We love you too! sur Flickr : partage de photos !]</ref>

On [[April 9]], [[2008]], Flickr began to allow its paid subscribers to upload videos limited to 90 seconds in length and 150MB in size.

In June 2008, Flickr co-founder [[Stewart Butterfield]] announced his resignation, following his wife and co-founder [[Caterina Fake]], who left the company on [[2008-06-13]].<ref>[http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/06/17/flickr-co-founders-join-mass-exodus-from-yahoo/ Flickr Co-founders Join Mass Exodus From Yahoo]</ref> Neither Butterfield nor Fake have mentioned why they are leaving or what they plan to do in the future. Butterfield wrote a resignation letter to Brad Garlinghouse talking about being an old tin man in a new age.<ref>[http://valleywag.com/5017424/stewart-butterfields-bizarre-resignation-letter-to-yahoo Stewart Butterfield's bizarre resignation letter to Yahoo]</ref>

==Features==
===Organization===
[[Image:Screenshot-HotTags-Flickr.png|right|thumb|A screenshot of hot tags on Flickr.]]
Flickr asks photo submitters to organize images using [[Tag (metadata)|tags]] (a form of [[metadata (computing)|metadata]]), which allow searchers to find images concerning a certain topic such as [[Location (geography)|place name]] or subject matter. Flickr was also an early website to implement [[tag cloud]]s, which provide access to images tagged with the most popular keywords. Because of its support for tags, Flickr has been cited as a prime example of effective use of [[folksonomy]], although [[Thomas Vander Wal]] suggested Flickr is not the best example.<ref>{{cite web
| last = Vander Wal
| first = Thomas
| authorlink = Thomas Vander Wal
| title = Folksonomy Research Needs Cleaning Up
| date = [[2006-01-17]]
| url = http://www.vanderwal.net/random/entrysel.php?blog=1781
| accessdate = 2006-09-04 }}</ref>

Flickr also allows users to organize their photos into "sets", or groups of photos that fall under the same heading. However, sets are more flexible than the traditional folder-based method of organizing files, as one photo can belong to one set, many sets, or none at all. Flickr's "sets", then, represent a form of categorical [[metadata (computing)|metadata]] rather than a physical hierarchy. Sets may be grouped into "collections", and collections further grouped into higher-order collections.

Finally, Flickr offers a fairly comprehensive web-service API that allows programmers to create applications that can perform almost any function a user on the Flickr site can do.<ref>[http://www.flickr.com/services/api/ Flickr Services: API Documentation]</ref>

===Organizr===
Organizr is a [[web application]] for organizing photos within a Flickr account that can be accessed through the Flickr interface. It allows users to modify tags, descriptions, and set groupings, and to place photos on a world map (a feature provided in conjunction with [[Yahoo! Maps]]). It uses [[Ajax (programming)|Ajax]] to emulate the look, feel, and quick functionality of desktop-based photo-management applications. Because of this, Organizr simplifies the batch organization of photos, which is more cumbersome with the normal web interface.

===Access control===
Flickr provides both private and public image storage. A user uploading an image can set privacy controls that determine who can view the image. A photo can be flagged as either public or private. Private images are visible by default only to the uploader, but they can also be marked as viewable by friends and/or family. Privacy settings also can be decided by adding photographs from a user's photostream to a "group pool". If a group is private all the members of that group can see the photo. If a group is public the photo becomes public as well. Flickr also provides a "contact list" which can be used to control image access for a specific set of users in a way similar to that of [[LiveJournal]].

In November 2006 Flickr created a "guest pass" system that allows private photos to be shared with non Flickr members. For instance, a person could email this pass to parents who may not have an account to allow them to see the photos otherwise restricted from public view. This setting allows sets to be shared, or all photos under a certain privacy category (friends or family) to be shared.

In March 2007, Flickr added new content filtering controls that let members specify by default what types of images they generally upload (photo, art/illustration, or [[screenshot]]) and how "safe" (i.e., unlikely to offend others) their images are, as well as specify that information for specific images individually.<ref>[http://flickr.com/help/filters/ flickr.com / Help / FAQ / Content filters]</ref> In addition, users can specify the same criteria when searching for images. There are some restrictions on searches for certain types of users: non-members must always use SafeSearch, which omits images noted as potentially offensive, while members whose Yahoo! accounts indicate that they are underage may use SafeSearch or moderate SafeSearch, but cannot turn SafeSearch off completely.

Many members allow their photos to be viewed by anyone, forming a large collaborative [[database]] of categorized photos. By default, other members can leave comments about any image they have permission to view, and in some cases can add to the list of tags associated with an image.

===Interaction and compatibility===
Flickr's functionality includes [[RSS (file format)|RSS]] and [[Atom (standard)|Atom]] feeds and an [[application programming interface|API]] that allows independent programmers to expand its services.

The core functionality of the site relies on standard [[HTML]] and [[HyperText Transfer Protocol|HTTP]] features, allowing for wide compatibility among [[Operating system|platforms]] and [[Web browser|browsers]]. Organizr uses [[Ajax (programming)|Ajax]], with which most modern browsers are compliant, and most of Flickr's other text-editing and tagging interfaces also possess Ajax functionality.

Images can be posted to the user's collection via email attachments, enabling direct uploads from many cameraphones and applications with email capabilities.

Flickr has increasingly been adopted by many web users as their primary photo storage site, especially members of the [[weblog]] community. In addition, it is popular with [[Apple Macintosh|Macintosh]] and [[Linux]] users, who are locked out of photo-sharing sites that require Windows and [[Internet Explorer]].

Flickr uses the [[Geo (microformat)|Geo microformat]] on the pages for over 3 million [[geotagging|geotagged]] images.<ref name="uFwiki">[http://microformats.org/wiki/geo#Examples_in_the_wild Geo examples, in the wild]</ref>

Flickr also lets members 'do more with your photos' through partnerships with third parties, offering streamlined printing of various forms of merchandise, including business cards, photo books, and large size prints.

Users of Windows Live Photo Gallery BETA now have the ability to upload their photos directly to Flickr.

===Archiving===
With a free account, each user has access to only the most recent 200 images he or she has uploaded. Older images are not deleted, and are still accessible via their [[URL]]s (e.g., linked from another website).<ref>{{cite web
| title = I have a free account. Some of my photos aren't showing up. Why?
| work = Flickr
| url = http://flickr.com/help/limits/#66
| accessdate = 2006-09-04 }}</ref>
Free accounts which are inactive for 90 consecutive days may be automatically deleted.

===Filtering===

In March 2007, Flickr introduced mandatory filtering of all photos and a process of central review of photos by staff to set levels of appropriateness. By default all Flickr accounts are set to the status appropriate for a minor and must be changed by the user in their account.

Flickr has since used this setting to change the level of accessibility to "unsafe" content for entire nations, including South Korea, Hong Kong, and Germany. In summer 2007, German users staged a "revolt" over being assigned to the user rights of a minor. <ref>http://flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/43626/ Offical Topid: German SafeSearch Settings</ref> See [[#Censorship controversy|Censorship controversy]] below.

The filter system of Flickr assumes that photos may be unsafe and should not be public until a staff person has validated that the material is safe. Until this happens, which could take up to a month, material cannot be viewed by persons without a valid Yahoo and Flickr account. A Flickr site not marked as safe can only be viewed by people in the community who have set their filters beyond the default status of that of a “minor”.

===Yahoo! Photos===
Yahoo announced that they would shut down [[Yahoo! Photos]] on [[September 20]], [[2007]], after which all photos would be deleted.<ref>{{cite web
| title = Yahoo Photos going dark as Flickr shines on
| work = USAToday
| url = http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/2007-05-03-yahoo-photos-flickr_N.htm
| accessdate = 2007-05-30 }}</ref><ref>[http://yodel.yahoo.com/2007/06/13/give-your-photos-the-fun-of-flickr/ Yodel Anecdotal » Blog Archive » Give your Photos the fun of Flickr]</ref> During the interim, users had the ability to migrate their photos to Flickr or other services (including [[Shutterfly]], [[Kodak Gallery]], [[Snapfish]], and [[Photobucket]]). All who migrated to Flickr were given three months of a Flickr Pro account.

===Licensing===
Flickr offers users the ability to release their images under certain common usage [[license]]s. The licensing options primarily include the [[Creative Commons]] 2.0 attribution-based and minor content-control licenses - although jurisdiction and version-specific licenses cannot be selected. As with "[[Tag (metadata)|tags]]", the site allows easy searching of only those images that fall under a specific license.<ref>{{cite web
| title = Flickr: Help: Photos: How can I copyright my photos?
| work = Flickr
| url = http://www.flickr.com/help/photos/#87
| accessdate = 2007-11-12}}</ref>

===Integration with Yahoo Web Search===
Since [[August 24]], [[2006]], some Yahoo! web searches return image results from Flickr, for example "funny photos" or "travel photography".<ref>{{cite web
| title = Yahoo! Search blog: It's a Flickr Moment!
| author = [[Yahoo!]]
| date = 2006-08-24
| url = http://www.ysearchblog.com/archives/000350.html
| accessdate = 2007-01-01 }}</ref>

==Software architecture==
[[Cal Henderson]], a Flickr developer, discussed the service's backend in a presentation at the Vancouver PHP Association in 2005.<ref>[http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/uploads/flickr_php.pdf Flickr and PHP]</ref> The platform consisted of:
* [[PHP]] for core application logic
* [[Smarty]] Template Engine
* [[PHP Extension and Application Repository|PEAR]] for XML & Email
* [[Perl]] for "controlling"
* [[ImageMagick]]
* [[MySQL]] 4.0
* [[Java (programming language)|Java]] for the node service
* [[Apache Web Server]] 2
* [[Adobe Flash]]
* Fotonotes for photo annotation<ref name="Fotonotes">[http://fotonotes.net/ Collection of scripts for annotating images.]</ref>

==Controversy==
=== Censorship ===
[[Image:FlickrPhotosServerBlocked.JPG|thumb|Users in mainland China could not see any images in Flickr when they log in.]]
On [[June 12]] [[2007]], in the wake of the rollout of localized language version of the site, Flickr implemented a user-side rating system for filtering out potentially controversial photos. Simultaneously, users with accounts registered with Yahoo subsidiaries in Germany, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Korea were prevented from viewing photos rated "moderate" or "restricted" on the three-part scale used. Many Flickr users, particularly German, protested against the new restrictions, claiming unwanted censorship from Flickr and Yahoo.<ref>[http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/91160 heise online - Flickr filter raises eyebrows]</ref>

Flickr management, unwilling to go into legal details, implied that the reason for the stringent filtering were unusually strict age-verification laws in Germany. The issue received some attention in the German national media, especially in online publications. Initial reports indicated that Flickr's action was a sensible, if unattractive, precaution against prosecution,<ref>[http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,488542,00.html Zwangsfilter: Flickr verbietet Deutschen Nacktfotos - Netzwelt - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten]</ref> although later coverage implied that Flickr's action may have been unnecessarily strict.<ref>[http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,489837,00.html Foto-Portal: Jugendschützer: Flickr-Filter nach deutschem Recht nicht nötig - Netzwelt - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten]</ref>

On [[June 20]] [[2007]] Flickr reacted by granting German users access to "moderate", but not "restricted" images, and hinted at a future solution involving advanced age-verification procedures for Germany, though no mention was made of Singapore, Hong Kong or Korea.

Flickr is also blocked by the governments of some countries{{Who?|date=July 2008}}.

However, users in [[mainland China]] are no longer blocked by Chinese [[Internet service provider|ISP]]s.

===Virgin Mobile ad copyright===
In 2007, [[Virgin Mobile]] launched a [[bus stop]] [[advertising campaign|ad campaign]] promoting their cellphone [[text messaging]] service using the work of amateur photographers who uploaded their work to Flickr using a [[Creative Commons licenses#The original licenses|Creative Commons-by]] (Attribution) license. Users licensing their images this way freed their work for use by any other entity, as long as the original creator was attributed credit, without any other compensation required. Virgin upheld this single restriction by printing a URL leading to the photographer's Flickr page on each of their ads. However, one picture depicted 15 year-old Alison Chang at a fund-raising carwash for her church,<ref name="permission">{{cite news |first= |last= |authorlink= |coauthors= |title=Use My Photo? Not Without Permission. |url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/technology/01link.html |quote=One moment, Alison Chang, a 15-year-old student from Dallas, is cheerfully goofing around at a local church-sponsored car wash, posing with a friend for a photo. Weeks later, that photo is posted online and catches the eye of an ad agency in Australia, and the altered image of Alison appears on a billboard in Adelaide as part of a [[Virgin Mobile]] advertising campaign. |publisher=[[New York Times]] |date= |accessdate=2007-09-25 }}</ref> for which Chang sued Virgin Mobile and Creative Commons. The photo was taken by Alison's church youth counsellor, Justin Ho-Wee Wong, who uploaded the image to Flickr under the [[Creative Commons]] license.<ref name="permission"/>
{{Cquote|The case hinges on privacy, the right of people not to have their likeness used in an ad without permission. So, while Mr. Wong may have given away his rights as a photographer, he did not, and could not, give away Alison's [[Personality rights|rights]]. In the lawsuit, which Mr. Wong is also a party to, there is an argument that Virgin did not honor all the terms of the nonrestrictive license.<ref name="permission"/>}}
On [[November 27]], [[2007]] Chang filed for a voluntary dismiss of the lawsuit against Creative Commons,<ref>[http://www.lessig.org/blog/2007/11/from_the_whyagcfromcravathisgr.html From the Why-a-GC-from-Cravath-is-great Department: The lawsuit is over (Lessig Blog)]</ref>
focusing their lawsuit against Virgin Mobile.<ref>{{cite news
| last = Gross
| first = Grant
| title = Lawsuit Against Creative Commons Dropped
| work = [[PC World (magazine)|PC World]]
| date = [[2007-12-01]]
| url = http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/140189/lawsuit_against_creative_commons_dropped.html
| accessdate = 2008-05-25 }}</ref> As of May, 2008 the lawsuit is still pending <ref>[http://news.justia.com/cases/featured/texas/txndce/3:2007cv01767/171558/ Chang et al v. Virgin Mobile USA LLC et al :: Justia News]</ref>

==See also==
* [[Image hosting service]]
* [[List of social networking websites]]
* [[Photo sharing]]
* [[User-generated content]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.flickr.com/ Official Website]
*[http://blog.flickr.com/ FlickrBlog]
*[http://www.ludicorp.com/ Ludicorp corporate website]
*[http://flickrbits.com/ Flickrbits], a repository for third party plug-ins and API-based tools











{{Yahoo! Inc.}}

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Sadako Sasaki

2008-07-09T07:23:58Z

Rungbachduong: + interwiki

'''Sadako Sasaki''' ([[Japanese language|Japanese]]:佐々木禎子 ''Sasaki Sadako'', [[January 7]], [[1943]] – [[October 25]], [[1955]]) was a Japanese girl who lived near Misasa Bridge in [[Hiroshima]], [[Japan]]. Sadako was [[Hibakusha|a victim]] of the atomic bomb [[Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki|dropped on Hiroshima]] and was only two years old on [[August 6]], [[1945]]. At the time of the explosion she was at home, about 1 mile from [[ground zero]]. Ten years later she was diagnosed with leukemia, which her mother called "an atom bomb disease."<ref>Sasaki Fujiko. [http://www.sadako.org/sadakomotherletter.htm "Come back to me again, Sadako".] [http://www.sadako.org World Peace Project for Children.] Retrieved on 2008-02-16</ref>

In November 1954, lumps developed on her neck and behind her ears. In January 1955, purple spots started to form on her legs. She was hospitalized on [[February 21]], [[1955]] and given, at the most, a year to live.

==Sadako and the paper cranes==
[[Image:PaperCranes.jpg|thumb|125x|right|Every day more cranes arrive at the memorial from children all over the world in the hope for peace.]]
On [[August 3]], [[1955]], Chizuko Hamamoto — Sadako's best friend — came to the hospital to visit and cut a golden piece of paper into a square and folded it into a paper crane. At first Sadako didn't understand why Chizuko was doing this but then Chizuko retold the story about the paper cranes. Inspired by the crane, she started folding them herself, spurred on by [[Thousand origami cranes|the Japanese saying]] that one who folded 1,000 cranes was granted a wish. A popular version of the story is that she fell short of her goal of folding 1,000 cranes, having folded only 644 before her death, and that her friends completed the 1,000 and buried them all with her. This comes from the book ''Sadako Sasaki and the Thousand Paper Cranes''. An exhibit which appeared in the [[Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum]] stated that by the end of August, 1955, Sadako had achieved her goal and continued to fold more cranes.<ref>[http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/virtual/VirtualMuseum_e/exhibit_e/exh0107_e/exh01071.html Sadako and the Paper Cranes.] [http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/virtual/VirtualMuseum_e/exhibit_e/exh0107_e/exhi_top_e.html Hiroshima Peace Memorial Special Exhibit 2001]Retrieved on 2008-02-16 </ref>

Though she had plenty of free time during her days in the hospital to fold the cranes, she lacked paper. She would use medicine wrappings and whatever else she could scrounge up. This included going to other patients' rooms to ask to use the paper from their get-well presents. Chizuko would bring paper from school for Sadako to use.

During her time in hospital her condition progressively worsened. Around mid-October her left leg became swollen and turned purple. After her family urged her to eat something, Sadako requested tea on rice and remarked "It's good." Those were her last words. With her family around her, Sadako died on the morning of [[October 25]], [[1955]].
{{clear}}

==Memorial==
[[Image:Sadako_sasaki_memorial.jpg|thumb|200x|right|Children's Peace Monument with the statue of Sadako holding a golden crane]]

After her death, Sadako's friends and schoolmates published a collection of letters in order to raise funds to build a memorial to her and all of the children who had died from the effects of the atomic bomb. In 1958, a [[Children's Peace Monument|statue of Sadako holding a golden crane]] was unveiled in the [[Hiroshima Peace Memorial]], also called the Genbaku Dome. At the foot of the statue is a plaque that reads, ''This is our cry. This is our prayer. Peace in the world.''

There is also a statue of her in the [[Peace Park (Seattle)|Seattle Peace Park]]. Sadako has become a leading symbol of the impact of a nuclear war. Sadako is also a heroine for many girls in Japan. Her story is told in some Japanese schools on the anniversary of the Hiroshima bombing. Dedicated to her, people all over Japan celebrate August 15 as the annual peace and love day.

==The story of Sadako in popular culture==
Sadako's story has become familiar to many schoolchildren around the world through the novels ''[[The Day of the Bomb]]'' (1961, in German, ''Sadako will leben'') by the [[Austria]]n writer [[Karl Bruckner]] and ''[[Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes]]'' by [[Eleanor Coerr]], first published in 1977. Sadako is also briefly mentioned in ''Children of the Ashes'', [[Robert Jungk]]'s historical account of the lives of Hiroshima victims and survivors. Her story continues to inspire millions to hope for lasting peace in the world.

In 1969, the [[Dagestan]]i national poet [[Rasul Gamzatov]] may have been inspired by Sadako's story to write his most famous poem, "[[Zhuravli]]". (Gamzatov may, however, have taken his inspiration from Soviet soldiers who died in the battle for Stalingrad. Associating cranes with World War II victims already appears, for example, in 1957 Soviet movie ''Letyat Zhuravli''.) The [[jazz fusion]] band [[Hiroshima (band)|Hiroshima]] wrote a song called "Thousand Cranes" inspired by Sadako's story and as a tribute to the band's namesake city. Toward the end of the song, children's laughter can be heard. Another song inspired by Sadako's story is [[Fred Small]]'s "Cranes Over Hiroshima".

<gallery>
Image:Hiroshima senzaburu.jpg|Japanese school children dedicate their contribution of [[origami]] cranes at the Sadako memorial in [[Hiroshima]].
Image:Sadako Memorial.jpg|Sadako Sasaki memorial in Hiroshima, surrounded by paper cranes
Image:Childrensmemorial.jpg|A recent photo of the Children's Peace Memorial, showing the structures built to protect the paper cranes from the elements.
Image:S4010023.JPG|Statue in memory of Sadako Sasaki in Hiroshima.
</gallery>

==See also==
{{Origami portal}}
*[[Children's Peace Monument]]
*[[Thousand origami cranes]]
*[[Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park]]
*[[Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki]]
*[[Hiroshima Witness]]
*[[Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes]]

==External links==
* [http://www.sadako.org/sadakostory.htm Sadako story from the Sadako organisation]
* [http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/virtual/VirtualMuseum_e/exhibit_e/exh0107_e/exhi_top_e.html Sadako and the Paper Cranes] — photos, a lot of various information on The Official Homepage of Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum.
* [http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/frame/kids_e/sadako_e/index.html Sadako and the Atomic Bombing] - Kids Peace Station at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum
* [http://www.mizushobai.freeserve.co.uk/senzaburuorikata.htm Senzaburu Orikata] - a 1797 book of origami designs to be used in the folding of thousand-crane amulets.
* [http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/cranesov.htm "Cranes over Hiroshima"] - lyrics to a song by [[Fred Small]] inspired by Sadako Sasaki
* [http://www.bcps.org/offices/lis/models/sadako/index.html Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes]
* [http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=27499792 Memorial Page at FindaGrave]

==References==

{{reflist}}

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George Pólya Prize

2008-07-08T16:34:43Z

Rungbachduong: /* Winners */ update

''This article is about the Pólya Prize awarded by the Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics. For the prize awarded by the London Mathematical Society, see [[Pólya Prize (LMS)]].''

The '''Pólya Prize''' is a prize in [[mathematics]], awarded by the [[Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics]]. First given in [[1969]], the prize is named after Hungarian mathematician [[George Pólya]]. It is now awarded in evenly numbered years.

The George Pólya Prize is given every two years, alternately in two categories: (1) for a notable application of combinatorial theory; (2) for a notable contribution in another area of interest to George Pólya such as approximation theory, complex analysis, number theory, orthogonal polynomials, probability theory, or mathematical discovery and learning.

The prize is broadly intended to recognize specific recent work. Prize committees may occasionally consider an award for cumulative work, but such awards should be rare.

== Winners ==

* 1971 [[Ronald Graham|Ronald L. Graham]], [[K. Leeb]], [[B. L. Rothschild]], [[A. W. Hales]], and [[R. I. Jewett]]
* 1975 [[Richard P. Stanley]], [[Endre Szemerédi]], and [[Richard M. Wilson]]
* 1979 [[László Lovász]]
* 1983 [[Anders Björner]] and [[Paul Seymour (mathematician)|Paul Seymour]]
* 1987 [[A. C. Yao]]
* 1992 [[Gil Kalai]] and [[Saharon Shelah]]
* 1994 [[Gregory Chudnovsky]] and [[Harry Kesten]]
* 1996 [[Jeffry Ned Kahn]] and [[David Reimer (mathematican)|David Reimer]]
* 1998 [[Percy Deift]], [[Xin Zhou]], and [[Peter Sarnak]]
* 2000 [[Noga Alon]]
* 2002 [[Craig A. Tracy]] and [[Harold Widom]]
* 2004 [[Neil Robertson (mathematician)|Neil Robertson]] and [[Paul Seymour (mathematician)|Paul Seymour]]
* 2006 [[Greg Lawler|Gregory F. Lawler]], [[Oded Schramm]], [[Wendelin Werner]]
* 2008 [[Vu Ha Van|Van H. Vu]] 

==External links==
*[http://www.siam.org/prizes/sponsored/polya.php SIAM: George Pólya Prize]
*[http://www.siam.org www.siam.org]
[[Category:Mathematics awards]]
[[Category:Awards established in 1969]]

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Table tennis

2008-07-08T14:37:40Z

Rungbachduong: /* Notes and trivia */ fact?

{{redirect|Ping Pong}}
{{otheruses4|the sport of Table tennis|the game by Rockstar Games|Rockstar Games presents Table Tennis}}
{{sport
|image = Pingpong equip.jpg
|imagesize = 250px
|caption = A standard table tennis table, together with a racket and ball.
|union = ITTF
|nickname = Ping pong
|first = 1880s
|registered =
|clubs =
|contact = No
|team = Single or doubles
|mgender = Single
|category = [[Raquet sport]], indoor
|ball = [[celluloid]], 40 mm
|olympic = 1988}}
'''Table tennis''' is a [[sport]] in which two or four [[players]] hit a lightweight, hollow ball back and forth to each other with paddles. The game takes place on a hard table divided by a net. Players must allow a ball played towards them only one bounce on their side of the table and must return it so that it bounces on the opposite side. Points are scored when the opponent fails to return the ball within the rules. Play is fast and demands quick reactions. A skilled player can impart [[spin]] to the ball, which makes its bounce and reaction on the opponent paddle or racket difficult to predict or return with confidence.

Table tennis originated in England in the 1880s as an after-dinner amusement for upper-class Victorians. A line of books was used as a net, a rounded top of a champagne cork or knot of string as a ball, and a cigar box lid as a paddle.<ref>Did You Know? "''Westside News''", April 9, 2008, published in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia</ref>

Table tennis evolved into the modern game in Europe, the United States and Japan<ref name="History of Table Tennis">[http://www.ittf.com/museum/history.html History of table tennis from the Table Tennis Museum of the International Table Tennis Federation]</ref>. The game is controlled by the [[International Table Tennis Federation]] (ITTF), founded in 1926.
Since 1988, table tennis is an [[Olympic sports|olympic sport]] which includes four [[competition|events]]: men's singles, women's singles, men's teams, and women's teams.

== General description ==
'''Table tennis''' is a [[sport]] where two or four players hit a ball with rackets back and forth to each other on a table, in a manner similar to [[tennis]]. The rules are slightly different, but the concept is quite similar. In singles play, the serve is not required to cross from the server's right-hand court to the receiver's right-hand court (or left to left) as it is in [[tennis]]. However, serving across is required in doubles play. Ball spin, speed, placement, strategy and tactics play an important part in competitive table tennis matches. The speed of the ball can vary from slow serves with much spin to smashes that travel as fast as 112.5 [[kilometers per hour]] (70 mph). <ref> [http://www.ittf.com/ittf_juniors/Stories_detail.asp?Year=&General_Catigory=&ID=4885&PT_Title=New+Zealand+Junior+Open+%28NZL%29&Year1=2003 Speed of ball article from the International Table Tennis Federation]</ref>

The game is played on a 274 cm × 152.5 cm × 76 cm high (9 ft × 5 ft × 30 inches high) playing surface. The International Table Tennis Federation requires an area not less than 14 m long, 7 m wide and 5 m high for competitions. No limitations in size or shape are specified. Modern rackets usually have a thin layer of [[rubber]] covering the racket's striking surface. The rubber may have pimples pointing outwards or inwards, as well as a thin layer of sponge between the plywood center and the rubber surface. Since spin plays a large role in the modern sport of table tennis, the composition of the rubber and the combination of sponge and rubber is designed to maximize the amount of spin and speed a player can impart onto the ball. Other technological improvements include the use of carbon or other synthetic layers as part of the blade to increase the size of the sweet spot or the stiffness of the blade.

The ball used in table tennis has a diameter of 40 mm, is made of [[celluloid]], and is hollow. A three star rating on a ball usually implies a top quality ball, in relation to its bounce, roundness and their respective consistency between balls of the same make and type.

The winner is the first to score 11 points, with each player alternating serves every two points. At 10-10 (or deuce) the players alternate with every serve; the winner is then the first person to gain a clear two points advantage over his opponent. The 11 point game is an International Table Tennis Federation ([[ITTF]]) change which occurred in 2001. All games played at national level and at international tournaments (ITTF) are played to 11 points in either a best of five (5) games (preliminaries) or best of seven (7) games format (championship matches).

== History ==
[[Image:startingtabletenniss.jpg|thumb|250px|Table tennis depicted on a 1987 postage stamp from the [[German Democratic Republic|DDR]]]]
The game has its origins in [[England]] as an after-dinner amusement for upper-class Victorians in the [[1880s]]. Mimicking the game of [[tennis]] in an indoor environment, everyday objects were originally enlisted to act as the equipment. A line of books would be the net, a rounded top of a Champagne cork or knot of string as the ball, and a cigar box lid as the racket {{Fact|date=July 2007}}.

The popularity of the game led game manufacturers to sell the equipment commercially. Early rackets were often pieces of [[parchment]] stretched upon a frame, and the sound generated in play gave the game its first nicknames of ''"whiff-whaff"'' and ''"Ping-pong."'' A number of sources indicate that the game was first brought to the attention of [[Hamleys|Hamley's of Regent Street]] under the name "Gossima". The name "ping-pong" was in wide use before English manufacturer J. Jaques & Son Ltd [[trademark]]ed it in [[1901]]. The name "Ping-Pong" then came to be used for the game played by the rather expensive Jaques equipment, with other manufacturers calling theirs table tennis. A similar situation came to exist in the United States where Jaques sold the rights to the "Ping-Pong" name to [[Parker Brothers]].

The next major innovation was by James Gibb,<ref> [http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall04/Baksh/history.html University of Florida table tennis history project] </ref> an English enthusiast of the game, who discovered novelty [[celluloid]] balls on a trip to the U.S. in 1901 and found them to be the ideal balls for the game. This was followed by E.C. Goode who in 1901 invented the modern version of the racket by fixing a sheet of pimpled, or stippled, [[rubber]] to the wooden blade. Table tennis was growing in popularity by 1901 when table tennis tournaments were being organized, books on table tennis were being written, and an unofficial world championship was held in 1902. During the early 20th century the game was banned in Russia due to a belief that was held by the rulers at the time that playing the game had an adverse effect on players' eyesight. In 1921, the Table Tennis Association was founded in England, and the International Table Tennis Federation followed in 1926. London hosted the first official world championship in 1927. Table tennis was introduced as an Olympic sport at the [[1988 Summer Olympics|Olympics in 1988]].

In the 1950s rackets that used a rubber sheet combined with an underlaying sponge layer changed the game dramatically, introducing greater spin and speed. These were introduced to England by the sports goods manufacturers S.W. Hancock Ltd. The use of [[speed glue]] increased the spin and speed even further, resulting in changes to the equipment to "slow the game down."

Toward the end of 2000, the [[ITTF]] instituted several rules changes aimed at making table tennis more viable as a televised spectator sport. First, the older 38 mm balls were officially replaced by 40 mm balls. This increased the ball's air resistance and effectively slowed down the game. By that time, players had begun increasing the thickness of the fast [[sponge]] layer on their rackets, which made the game excessively fast, and difficult to watch on television. Secondly, the ITTF changed from a 21 to an 11 point scoring system. This was intended to make games more fast-paced and exciting. The ITTF also changed the rules on service to prevent a player from hiding the ball during service, in order to increase the average length of rallies and to reduce the server's advantage.
Variants of the sport have emerged. "Large-ball" table tennis uses a 44 mm ball which slows down the game significantly. This has seen some acceptance by players who have a hard time with the extreme spins and speeds of the 40 mm game. The ball's mass is 2.47 grams.

There is a move towards reviving the table tennis game that existed prior to the introduction of sponge rubber. Classic table tennis or "[[Hardbat]]" table tennis players reject the speed and spin of reversed sponge rubber, preferring the 1940-60s style of no-sponge, short pimpled rubber of play which makes defense less difficult by decreasing the speed and eliminating any meaningful [[magnus effect]] of spin. Because hardbat killer shots are almost impossible to hit against a skilled player, hardbat matches focus on the strategic side of table tennis, requiring skillful maneuvering of the opponent before an attack can be successful.

== Equipment ==
===Ball===
[[Image:Ballsizes.JPG|thumb|right|40 mm, 44 mm, and 54 mm celluloid Table Tennis balls]]
The international rules specify that the game is played with a light 2.7 [[gram]], 40 mm diameter ball. Generally, it is the most-used ball. The rules say that the ball shall bounce up 23cm when dropped from a height of 30cm thereby having a [[coefficient of restitution]] of 0.88. The 40 mm ball was introduced after the 2000 Olympic Games. However, this created some controversy as the Chinese National Team argued that this was merely to give non-Chinese players a better chance of winning. A 40 mm table tennis ball is slower and spins less than a 38 mm one. The ball is made of a high-bouncing gas-filled [[celluloid]], colored white or orange, with a [[wikt:matte|matte]] finish. The choice of ball color is made according to the table color and its surroundings. For example, a white ball is easier to see on a green or blue table than it is on a grey table.
Stars on the ball indicate the quality of the ball. 3 stars indicates that it is of the highest quality.

===Table===
[[Image:Table Tennis the table.jpg|thumb|400px|Diagram of a table tennis table showing the official dimensions]]
The table is 2.74 m (9 ft) long, 1.525 m (5 ft) wide, and 76 cm (30 inch) high with a [[Masonite]] (a type of hardboard) or similarly manufactured timber, layered with a smooth, low-[[friction]] coating. The table or playing surface is divided into two halves by a 15.25 cm (6 inch) high net.<ref>[http://www.sizes.com/sports/table_tennis.htm#website Table tennis ball regulations at sizes.com]</ref> The table surface can either have a green or blue color.

===Racket===
Players are equipped with a wooden blade covered with rubber on one or two sides depending on the grip of the player. This is called either a paddle, racket or bat depending on where in the world the game is being played. In the USA the term "paddle" is common, in Europe the term is "bat," and the official ITTF term is "racket." This section will use the [[ITTF]] term.

Table tennis regulations allow different surfaces on each side of the racket. The different types of surfaces provide various levels of spin or speed, or in some cases, nullify spin. For example, a player may have a rubber that provides much spin on one side of his racket, and no spin on the other side of the racket. By flipping the racket in play, different types of returns are possible. To help a player distinguish between different types of rubber used by his opposing player, international rules specify that one side must be red while the other side must be black. The player has the right to inspect his opponent's racket before a match to see the type of rubber used and what color it is. Despite high speed play and rapid exchanges, a player can see clearly what side of the racket was used to hit the ball.

Recent years have seen an advancement in technology of table tennis blades. Materials of different properties may be combined with the wood in the blade to enhance its playing performance. Many blades today feature one or more carbon layers within them to enhance their '[[sweet spot]]', and to give the player a greater margin of error when playing powerful shots. Materials incorporated into table tennis blades today include [[titanium]], [[acrylate]], [[aramids]], [[fiberglass]], and [[aluminium]].

The rubber coating may be of [[pimpled rubber]], with the pimples outward, or it may be a rubber that is composed of two materials, a sponge layer, covered by a pimpled rubber, with the pimples pointed inwards or outwards. Some rackets are not covered with rubber at all, because a "naked" racket is believed to be more resistant to a spin. However, it is illegal to use these types of racket in competition as they are not approved by the ITTF. Some types of rubbers are also not approved. Approved rubbers have the ITTF emblem on the base of the rubber.<ref>[http://www.sizes.com/sports/table_tennis.htm#website Table tennis racket regulations at sizes.com]</ref>

Players have many choices and variations in rubber sheets on their racket. Although a racket may be purchased with rubber by the manufacturer, most serious tournament players will create a customized racket. A player selects a blank blade (i.e. a racket without rubber), based on his playing style. The type of wood and synthetic layers used to make up the blade will provide a slower or faster blade. The player can choose from different types of rubber sheets which will provide a certain level of spin, speed and specific playing characteristics.

Normally, a sheet of rubber is glued to a blade using rubber cement and not removed until the rubber wears out or becomes damaged. In the 1980s, a new technique was developed where the player would use a special glue called [[Speed Glue|speed glue]] to apply the rubber every time he played. The glue would help provide more spin and speed by providing a "[[catapult]]" effect. This technique is known as "regluing" and has become a standard technique for top players.

The surface of a racket will develop a smooth glossy patina with use. The rubber surface needs to be regularly cleaned to ensure it retains a high friction surface to impart spin to the ball. Players use a commercial cleaner, or just water and detergent as cleaning agents. <ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.megaspin.net/info/equip.asp|title= Table Tennis Information - Equipment maintenance|accessdate=2007-07-10 |last=|first=|authorlink= |coauthors= |date= |year= |month= |format= |work= |publisher=Webgenix |pages= |language= |archiveurl= |archivedate= |quote= }}</ref>

Racket construction and new rubber technology (skilled elite players typically select and attach the rubber to their own rackets and glue them before every match) contribute significantly to the amount of deviation from the expected ball flight path. The fairly recent development of speed glue speeds up the departure of the ball from the rubber considerably, though at the cost of some ball control on touch shots where little or no spin is put on the ball.

;Different types of rubber sheets:

*'''Inverted (non-Chinese):''' This is the most widely used rubber type. The surface is smooth, with the pimpled side facing inwards toward the blade. This enables the player to generate high levels of spin and speed. Spin is generated not by the action of the topsheet alone, but also by the ball sinking into the sponge and allowing greater surface area to contact the ball.

*'''Inverted (Chinese):''' Chinese rubbers typically have stickier (or "tackier") topsheets. Spin is generated mainly by the topsheet, as opposed to the sponge, which is more condensed and firm. The result is usually a far better short game and potential offensive capabilities than normal inverted, but also a less consistent defensive and/or counter play.

*'''Short pimples (or "pips"):''' Short pimples-out rubbers are usually used by close-to-the-table hitters (for example, Liu Guoliang). They do not generate as much spin as inverted rubbers, but also make the user less susceptible to the opponent's spin. Speed generated from a short pip rubber is generally greater than that of an inverted with the same sponge. Depending on the thickness of the sponge it is also possible to play a chopping game with short pimples by varying the spin of the return. Whilst blocking and attacking a "dead ball" effect is often noticed. Ding Song is an exponent of this style.

*'''Long pimples (or "pips"):''' Long pimples-out rubbers carry relatively long and soft pips. They do not have the ability to generate any real spin of their own, but feed off of the opponent's spin instead. This allows the user to confuse the opponent and upset their rhythm. Long pips rely on the opponent's oncoming spin, as they tend to "continue" the opponent's spin, by bending upon impact, rather than reversing or changing the spin, like inverted rubbers. Long pips are usually used by close-to-the-table blockers, or choppers, but, in some cases, they can be used away from the table for long distance chops. They are usually only used on the backhand side, as they offer very limited attacking capabilities. Depending on the grip of the sides of the pimples and the thickness of the sponge it is also possible to play an aggressive game with long pips, although without much spin capability.

*'''Anti-spin:''' Anti-spin rubbers may look similar to the inverted ones, but their surfaces are very slick and frictionless. Like long pimples, they cannot generate much spin. Anti-spin is also not very susceptible to the opponents oncoming spin, due to the low coefficient of friction of the rubber's surface, as well as the incredibly soft sponge, which is designed to cushion or absorb the momentum of the ball upon impact. This is also used to confuse the opponent, but is not widely used at the international level.

===Glue===

In Japan, JTTA changed a policy of the glue which is used to glue rubbers and racket in September 2006.
Using glues and rubber cleaner which contains some volatile organic solvents is banned in a game place, except where allowed to use them. A game place means that all of grounds, including a parking area. On the other hand, the glues ITTF or JTTA authorized can be used in a place which is located to use them. From September 1st, no one can be allowed to use the glues that contain some volatile organic solvents. 

==Gameplay ==
=== Starting a game ===
In top-flight competition, service is decided by a [[coin toss]]. At lower levels it is common for one player (or the umpire/scorer) to hide the ball in one or the other hand (usually hidden under the table), allowing the other player to guess which hand the ball is in. The correct or incorrect guess gives the "winner" the option to choose to serve, receive, or to choose which side of the table to use. Another method is for one player to hit the ball to the other and he or she returns it. Then, they play one point to see who serves first.

=== Service ===
In game play, the player serving the ball commences a point. Standing so that the ball is held behind the endline of the table, with the ball in the palm of the free hand - over the table's height - and the racket in the other, the server tosses the ball without spin, upward, at least sixteen centimeters (approximately 6 inches). In casual (non-tournament) games, many players do not toss the ball upward, however this is technically illegal and can give the player serving an unfair advantage.

He or she then must hit the ball such that it bounces once on his or her half of the table, and then bounces at least one time on the opponent's half, into the diagonal corner. If the ball strikes the net but does not strike the opponent's half of the table, then a point is awarded to the opponent. However, if the ball hits the net, but nevertheless goes over and bounces on the other side, it is called a let (or net-in). Play stops, and the ball must be served again with no penalty. A player may commit any number of lets without penalty.

If the service is "good", then the opponent must then make a "good" return — by returning the ball before it bounces on his or her side of the table a second time. Returning the serve is one of the most difficult parts of the game, as the server's first move is often the least predictable and thus most advantageous to him or her.

=== Hitting the ball ===
[[Image:Wang Liqin from ITTF.jpg|thumb|250px|[[Wang Liqin]], 2001, 2005 and 2007 World Champion]]
Any hitting of the ball must be done such that the ball passes over or around the net. If the ball is struck such that it travels around the net, but still lands on the opponent's side of the table, the hit is legal and play should be continued. If the opponent cannot return it over (or around) the net and make it bounce on your side, then you win the point.

=== Scoring ===
Points are awarded to the opponent for any of several errors in play: <ref>{{PDFlink|[http://www.ittf.com/ITTF_Hand_Book/2_Handbook.pdf The Laws of Table Tennis]|28.0 [[Kibibyte|KiB]]}} at the ITTF. Accessed July 2007</ref>
* Allowing the ball to bounce on one's own side twice
* Double hitting the ball. Note that the hand above the wrist is considered part of the racket and making a good return off one's hand or fingers on the racket-holding hand is allowed, but hitting one's hand or fingers and subsequently hitting the racket is a double strike and an error.
* Allowing the ball to strike anything other than the racket (see above for definition of the racket)
* Causing the ball not to bounce on the opponent's half (i.e., not making a "good" return)
* Placing one's free hand on the playing surface or moving the playing surface
* Offering and failing to make a good serve (i.e., making a service toss and failing to strike the ball fairly into play)
* Making an illegal serve: (e.g., one preceded by a player's hiding the ball or his failing to toss the ball at least 16 [[centimeters]] (six [[inch]]es) in the air).
* Hitting the net with racket or any body part, or moving the table.
* By volleying the ball (not allowing the ball to bounce on your side)

=== Alternation of service ===
Service alternates between opponents every two points (regardless of winner of the rally) until a player reaches 11 points with at least a two-point lead, or until both players have 10 points a piece. If both players reach 10 points, then service alternates after each point, until one player gains a two-point advantage.

In doubles, service alternates every two points between sides, but also rotates between players on the same team. At the end of every two points, the receiving player becomes the server, and the partner of the serving player becomes the receiver.

In the older 21-point game system, service would alternate every 5 points. If both players reached a score of 20, then service would alternate each point until one player gains a two-point advantage.

=== Series of games ===
After each game, players switch sides of the table and in the fifth or seventh, game "for the match", players switch sides when the first player scores 5 points, regardless of whose turn it is to serve. In competition play, matches are typically best of five or seven games.

=== Doubles game ===
[[Image:Doubles.gif|thumb|Service zone in doubles game]]In addition to games between individual players, pairs may also play table tennis. In doubles, all the rules of single play apply except for the following. A line painted along the long axis of the table to create doubles courts bisects the table. This line's only purpose is to facilitate the doubles service rule, which is that service, must originate from the right hand "box" in such a way that the first bounce of the serve bounces once in said right hand box and then must bounce at least once in the opponent side's right hand box (far left box for server). Play then continues normally with the exception that players must alternate hitting the ball. For example, after a player serves, the receiving player makes his or her return, the server's partner returns the ball and then the service receiver's partner would play the ball. The point proceeds this way until one side fails to make a legal return and the point is then awarded to the other team. Also, when the game reaches the final set, the teams must switch side and the team that receives the service must switch receiver when one of the teams reach 5 points. Singles and doubles are both played in international competition, including the Olympic Games since 1988 and the [[Commonwealth Games]] since 2002. In 2005, the [[ITTF]] announced that doubles table tennis will only be featured as a part of teams events in the 2008 Olympics.

== Styles of play ==
{{main|Table tennis styles}}
===Grip===
Competitive table tennis players grip their rackets in a variety of ways. The manner in which competitive players grip their rackets can be classified into two major families of styles. One is described as ''penhold'', and the other ''shakehand''. The Laws of Table Tennis do not prescribe the manner in which one must grip the racket, and numerous variations on gripping styles exist.


;Penhold :The penhold grip is so-named because one grips the racket similarly to the way one holds a [[writing instrument]]. The style of play among penhold players can vary greatly from player to player. The most popular style, usually referred to as the [[China|Chinese]] penhold style, involves curling the middle, ring, and fourth finger on the back of the blade. The amount of curl in the fingers can vary from clenched, to almost perfectly straight. The three fingers however, will always remain touching one another. Chinese penholders favour a round racket head, for a more over-the-table style of play. In contrast, another style, sometimes referred to as the [[Japan]]ese penhold grip, involves splaying those three fingers out across the back of the racket, usually with all three fingers touching the back of the racket, rather than stacked upon one another. Japanese penholders will often use a square-headed racket for an away-from-the-table style of play. Traditionally these square-headed rackets feature a block of cork on top of the handle, as well as a thin layer of cork on the back of the racket, for increased grip and comfort. Penhold styles are popular among players originating from [[East Asia]]n regions such as [[China]], [[Taiwan]], [[Japan]], and [[South Korea]]. Traditionally, penhold players use only one side of the racket to hit the ball during normal play. The side which is in contact with the last three fingers is generally not used. However, the [[Chinese people|Chinese]] have developed a new technique in which a penholder utilizes both sides of the racket. This is referred to as the ''Reverse penhold backhand'' (RPB) where the player produces a stroke (most often topspin) by turning the traditional side of the racket to face him or herself, and swinging, with a backhand motion, using the opposite side of the racket. This stroke has greatly improved and strengthened the penhold style both physically and psychologically, as it eliminates the strategical weakness of the traditional penhold backhand.

{| class="wikitable" align="right"
!
[[Image:Shakehand1.jpg|100px|center]]
!
[[Image:Shakehand2.jpg|100px|center]]
|}
; Shakehand :The shakehand grip is so-named because one grips the racket similarly to the way one performs a handshake. The grip is sometimes colloquially referred to as a "tennis grip" or a "Western grip," although it has no correlation to the Western grip used in Tennis. The shakehand grip is most popular among players originating in [[Western world|Western]] nations and [[South Asia]]n nations, for example. Today, though, there are many Asian players using the shakehand grip, as it can be viewed as strategically and technically superior.

=== Types of shots ===
In table tennis, the strokes break down into generally offensive and defensive. You can spin, smash, block, push, chop, or lob the ball. The types of strokes include backhand and forehand.

==== Offensive strokes ====
; Speed drive : These strokes differ to ones from other racket sports like tennis. The racket is primarily ''[[perpendicular]]'' to the direction of the stroke, and most of the energy applied to the ball results in ''speed'' rather than ''spin'', creating a shot that does not arc much, but is fast enough that it can be difficult to return. A speed drive is used mostly for keeping the ball in play, applying pressure on the opponent and potentially opening up an opportunity for a more powerful attack.
; Loop drive : Essentially the reverse of the speed drive. The racket is much more ''[[parallel]]'' to the direction of the stroke ("closed") and the racket thus ''grazes'' the ball, resulting in a large amount of topspin. A good loop drive will arc quite a bit, and once striking the opponent's side of the table will jump forward, much like a kick serve in tennis. Returning a loop drive may not be as difficult to return as a speed drive; however, because of its topspin, it is more likely to rebound off the opponent's racket at a very high angle, setting up an easy smash (described below) on the follow up. As the loop drive requires a lot of topspin, players generally use their entire body to generate the movement required. Variations in spin and speed add to the effectiveness of this shot.
:Chinese players categorize loop-drives in 3 variations based on trajectories:
:; 1. The "Loop": The "Loop" produces a more pronounced loopy arc, with a higher trajectory and extreme topspin, but is typically slower.
:; 2. The "Hook": Similar to a regular Loop, but carries a tilted topspin (or is referred as the "top-side" spin), it bounces sideways and downward upon hitting the table. Similar but stronger than the defensive "side-drive" described below.

; Counter drive : Usually a counter attack against drives (normally high loop drives). You have to close the racket and stay close to the ball (try to predict its path). The racket is held closed and near to the ball, which is hit with a short movement "off the bounce" (before reaching the highest point) so that the ball travels faster to the other side. If performed correctly, a well-timed, accurate counter-drive can be as effective as a smash.
; Flip (or Flick in [[Europe]]) : When a player tries to attack a ball that has not bounced beyond the edge of the table, he/she does not have the room to wind up in a ''backswing''. The ball ''may still be attacked'', however, and the resulting shot is called flip because the backswing is compressed into a quick wrist action. A flip is not a single stroke and can resemble either a drive or a loop in its characteristics. What identifies the stroke is instead whether the backswing is compressed into a short wrist flick. Also known as ''払い "harai"'' in Japanese.
; Smash : The offensive trump card in table tennis. A player will typically execute a smash when his or her opponent has returned a ball that bounces too high and/or too close to the net. ''Smashing'' is essentially self-explanatory — large backswing and rapid acceleration imparting as much speed on the ball as possible. The goal of a smash is to get the ball to move so quickly that the opponent simply cannot return it. Because the ball speed is the main aim of this shot, often the spin on the ball is something other than topspin. Sidespin can be used effectively with a smash to alter the ball's trajectory significantly, although most intermediate players will smash the ball with little or no spin. An offensive table-tennis player will think of a rally as a build-up to a winning smash; only a calculated series of smashes can guarantee a point against a good opponent. However, most players will be able to return at most one or two smashes consistently. Provided that the opponent is not too close to the table or too far away from the ball, a smash can be lobbed, chopped, blocked or even counter-looped, albeit with some difficulty. A player who smashes generally works out a series of smashes (and possibly drop-shots) to rush the opponent out of position, put him off balance, or both. Smashers who fail to do this find it difficult to win a point against an excellent defense.

==== Defensive strokes ====
; Push: The push is analogous to the speed drive in some respects smash; it is very simple, usually used for keeping the point alive and creating offensive opportunities. A push resembles a tennis slice: the racket cuts underneath the ball, imparting backspin and causing the ball to float slowly to the other side of the table. While not obvious, a push can be difficult to attack because the backspin on the ball causes it to drop toward the table upon striking the opponent's racket – in order to attack a push, a player must loop the ball back over the net. Often, the best option for beginners is to simply push the ball back again, (which repeats and results in pushing rallies), but for good players it is the worst option because they will loop you and your are in a defensive position which most likely you will lose (does not apply to choppers). Otherwise, another option is to flip the ball, only when it is close from the net. Pushing can have its advantages, but it's a shot worth avoiding. Players should only push when their opponent makes easy mistakes. Offensive players should only push for variation and not for general rallies. A push can easily be counter-looped into the opposite corner (as said above), if it doesn't drop short on the table. The goal of most player's push is to make it too short to be to give you a chance to attack, rather than attempting to over-spin the opponent.
; Chop : A ''chop'' or ''cut'' is the defensive, backspin counterpart to the offensive ''loop drive''. A ''chop'' is essentially a bigger, heavier ''slice'', taken well back from the table. The racket face points primarily horizontally, perhaps a little bit upward, and the direction of the stroke is ''straight down''. The object of a defensive ''chop'' is to ''match'' the topspin of the opponent's shot with your own racket speed. A good ''chop'' will float nearly horizontally back to the table, in some cases having so much backspin that the ball actually ''rises''. A ''chop'' such as this can be ''extremely'' difficult to return due to the enormous amount of backspin. Sometimes a defensive player can impart no spin on the ball during a ''chop'', or frequently add right- or left-hand spin to the ball. This may further confuse his/her opponent. ''Chops'' are difficult to execute, but are devastating when completed properly because it takes a tremendous amount of ''topspin'' on a ''loop drive'' to return the ball back over the net.
; Block : The ''block'' or ''short'' is a simple shot, barely worthy of being called a "stroke," but nonetheless can be ''devastating'' against an attacking opponent. A ''block'' is executed by simply putting the racket in front of the ball — the ball rebounds back toward the opponent with nearly as much energy as it came in with. This is not as easy as it sounds, because the ball's spin, speed, and location all influence the correct angle of a ''block''. Disregarding the difficulty of a block, it is very possible for an opponent to execute a perfect ''loop'', ''drive'', or ''smash'', only to have the ''blocked'' shot come back at him just as fast. Due to the power involved in offensive strokes, often an opponent simply cannot recover quickly enough, and will be unable to return his own shot ''blocked'' back to him/her. ''Blocks'' almost always produce the same spin as was received, which is nearly always topspin.
; Push-Block : High level players may use what is called ''push block'' or ''active block'', adding speed to the ball (with a small topspin movement). When playing in the ''Penhold Grip'', many players use ''push blocks'' when being pressured on the backhand. Chinese pen-hold players refer it as ''push-block'' as they literally "push" their backhand forward, instead of simply blocking it.
; Side Drive : This spin is alternately used as a defensive and offensive maneuver. The premise of this move is to put a spin on the ball either to the ''right'' or the ''left'' of the racket. The execution of this move is similar to a slice, but to the right or left instead of down. This spin will result in the ball curving to the side but bouncing in the opposite direction when the opponent returns it. Do not attempt a right-side spin (moving your arm to the right when hitting the ball) when too close to the left side of the table, and visa versa. To return, simply execute the same sided spin as your opponent just gave you.
; High Balls : The defensive ''High Ball'' is possibly the most visually-impressive shot in the sport of table tennis, and it is deceptive in its simplicity. To execute a ''High Ball'', a defensive player first backs off the table 8-10 meters; then, the stroke itself consists of simply lifting the ball to an enormous height before it falls back to the opponent's side of the table. A ''High Ball'' is inherently a creative shot, and can have nearly any kind of spin you can imagine. Top quality players use this fact to their advantage in order to control the spin of the ball. For instance, though the opponent may ''smash'' the ball hard and fast, a good defensive ''High Ball'' could quite possibly be even ''harder'' to return due to the unpredictability (and heavy amounts) of the spin on the ball. Thus, though backed off the table by tens of feet and apparently running and leaping just to ''reach'' the ball, a good defensive player can still ''win'' the point using good ''High Balls'' but most of the time you will lose the point so it is not recommended unless it is really necessary.
;Drop Shot :The ''drop shot'' is a high level stroke, used as another variation for close-to-table strokes (like ''harai'' and ''slice''). You have to position the bat close to the ball and just let the ball touch the racket (without any hand movement) in a way that the ball stays close to the net with almost no speed and spin and touches the other side of the table more than twice if the opponent doesn't reach it. This stroke should be used when opponents are far from the table and not prepared to get close to the table. This technique is most usually done by pen-holders and players who use long or short pimples. A very deceiving technique, this could result in the opponent failing to reach the ball after misjudging the ''distance'' of the ball. A perfectly executed stroke after a ''topspin sequence'' can win a point.

== Competition ==
[[Image:Competitive table tennis.jpg|thumb|250px|left|A competition game played at the highest level.]]
Competitive table tennis is popular in [[Asia]] and [[Europe]] and has been gaining attention in the [[United States]]. The most important international competitions are World Cup, World Championship, the [[Olympics]] and the ITTF Pro Tour, as well as continental competitions like European Championship, Euro Top-12, Asian Championship and [[Asian Games]]. [[China]] continues to dominate most world titles, while other strong teams come from [[East Asia]] and [[Europe]] including [[France]], [[Germany]], [[former Yugoslavia]], [[Hong Kong]], [[Japan]], [[South Korea]], [[Singapore]], [[Sweden]], and [[Taiwan]].

There are also professional competitions at the clubs level. The national league of countries like [[China]] (the [[China Table Tennis Super League]]), [[Germany]], [[France]], [[Belgium]] and [[Austria]] are some of the examples being at the highest level. There are also some important international club teams competitions such as the [[European Champions League (table tennis)|European Champions League]] and its former competition, the European Club Cup, which the top club teams from different European countries compete.

== Notable players ==
[[Image:Jan-Ove Waldner Olympia-2004.jpg|thumb|150px|left|[[Jan-Ove Waldner]]]]
{{main|List of notable table tennis players}}
An international [[hall of fame]] exists at the {{PDFlink|[http://www.ittf.com/museum/HallofFame.pdf ITTF Museum webpage]|349 [[Kibibyte|KiB]]}}. A ''Grand Slam'' is earned by a player who wins an [[Olympic Games]] [[gold medal]], [[List of World Table Tennis Champions|world championship title]], and World Cup of Table Tennis gold medal.
{{further|[[List of World Table Tennis Champions]]}}

== Governance ==
The [[International Table Tennis Federation]] ([[ITTF]]): worldwide [[Governance|governing]] body with national bodies responsible for the sport in each country. There are other local authorities applicable as well.
* The European Table Tennis Union is the governing body responsible for table tennis in Europe.
:* The English Table Tennis Association is the governing body responsible for table tennis in England.
:* The Irish Table Tennis Association is the governing body responsible for table tennis in Ireland.
:* The Scottish Table Tennis Association is the governing body responsible for table tennis in Scotland.
:* The Table Tennis Association of Wales is the governing body responsible for table tennis in Wales.
 
:* The Canadian Table Tennis Association is the governing body responsible for table tennis in Canada.
:* The USA Table Tennis (USATT): national governing body for table tennis in the United States.
::* The [[National Collegiate Table Tennis Association]] ([[National Collegiate Table Tennis Association|NCTTA]]): official governing body for collegiate table tennis in the United States.

== Notes and trivia ==
{{Trivia|date=October 2007}}

*Multi-talented sportsman [[Jason Stancil]], an [[Olympic Games|Olympic]] and [[The Championships, Wimbledon|Wimbledon]] champion at [[lawn tennis]] and one-time captain of the [[England national football team]], once defeated actor and [[film director]] [[Charlie Chaplin]] at table tennis while playing with a [[butter knife]] instead of a racket.<ref>{{cite book|last=Collins|first=Mick||year=2006|title=All-Round Genius: The Unknown Story of Britain's Greatest Sportsman|publisher=Aurum Press Limited|location=London|id=ISBN 1-84513-137-1}}</ref>
*Table tennis inspired the first commercially successful [[video game]], ''[[Pong]]''.
*In the early 1970s the [[People's Republic of China]] (PRC) invited American table tennis players to a tournament in the PRC. This marked a thawing in relations with the [[United States]] that was followed up by a visit by U.S. president [[Richard Nixon]]. The popular media therefore dubbed this visit "[[Ping Pong Diplomacy]]".
*At the [[1936 in sports|1936]] World Championships contested in [[Prague]], two [[Defense (sport)|defensive]] players took over an hour to contest one point.
* [[Soviet]] rule once banned the sport because it was seen as carrying significant risk of eye damage.{{Fact|date=July 2007}}
*Certain world-class players can impart spin approaching 9000 [[revolutions per minute|RPM]] on table tennis balls. {{Fact|date=February 2007}}
*More than 30 table tennis companies exist around the world, making a full line of accessories from rackets to warm-up suits.
*A man in [[Hawaii]] has invented a three-player table for table tennis, calling it [[Tri-Pong]]
*There are also competitions in table tennis variants: "Hardbat", in which all competitors use a racket with small pips-out rubber (sponge is not allowed); and "Large ball", where a 44 mm ball is used to decrease the speed.
*In the movie [[Forrest Gump]], while Forrest is in recovery for a bullet shot to his [[buttocks|buttocks]], he discovers his uncanny ability for table tennis, eventually gaining popularity and rising to celebrity status, later playing table tennis competitively against [[People's Republic of China|Chinese]] teams.
*If you play Ping Pong while drinking Jack Daniels, it is called '''Ding Dang Daniels'''. You must volley the ball 4 times before you are eligible for a drink. The person who loses the point after 4 vollies must consume a gulp of Jack Daniels or Jack & Coke. Games will go to 21 and victor must win by at least 2 points.

==References==
For all aspects of the game refer to the ITTF official web site at http://www.ittf.com/

===Specific references===
<references/>

===Bibliography===
* ''SizzliCharyne, Publisher: Four Walls Eight Windows (September 2002) ISBN 1-56858-242-0
* ''Winning Table Tennis: Skills, Drills, and Strategies'' by Dan Seemiller, Publisher: Human Kinetics Publishers (October 1996) ISBN 0-88011-520-3
* ''Planet Ping Pong'', A Time Shift TV documentary from BBC4 60mins 2006 [http://www.ittf.com/stories/Stories_detail.asp?ID=9958&Category=&General_Catigory=General
ng Chops & Devilish Spins: Ping-Pong and the Art of Staying Alive'' by Jerome

== External links ==
{{Commonscat|Table tennis}}
{{Wiktionarypar|table tennis|ping pong}}
*{{PDFlink|[http://www.ittf.com/ITTF_Hand_Book/2_Handbook.pdf Laws of Table Tennis]|28.0 [[Kibibyte|KiB]]}}
*[http://www.tennistavolovicenza.it/public/video/upload/index.php Video Archive Table Tennis]
*[http://www.tabletennisratings.com/ Table Tennis Equipment Reviews and Ratings]
*[http://www.tabletennisdb.com/ Table Tennis Database]
*[http://www.pipfacts.info/ PIPS website]

=== Governing bodies ===
*[http://www.ittf.com/ International Table Tennis Federation (ITTF)]

====Africa====
*[http://www.egypttta.net/home.html Egyptian Table Tennis Association (ETTA)]
*[http://www.tabletennis.co.za South African Table Tennis Board (SATTB)]

====Asia====
*[http://www.attu.org/ Asian Table Tennis Union (ATTU)]
*[http://www.ttfi.org/ Table Tennis Federation of India (TTFI)]
*[http://tabletennis.sport.org.cn/ Chinese Table Tennis Association]
*[http://cttta.org.tw/ Chinese Taipei Table Tennis Association]
*[http://www.koreatta.or.kr Korea Table Tennis Association]
*[http://www.jtta.or.jp Japan Table Tennis Association]
*[http://www.stta.org.sg Singapore Table Tennis Association]
*[http://kdtta.we.bs Kollam District Table Tennis Association]
*[http://www.hktta.org.hk/ Hong Kong Table Tennis Association]

====North America====
*[http://www.usatt.org/index.shtml USA Table Tennis (USATT)]
*[http://www.nctta.org/ National Collegiate Table Tennis Association (NCTTA)]
*[http://www.ctta.ca/ Canadian Table Tennis Association (English)]

====Europe====
*[http://www.ettu.org European Table Tennis Union]
*[http://www.nttb.nl/ Dutch Table Tennis Federation]
*[http://www.etta.co.uk English Table Tennis Association]
*[http://www.sptl.fi/ Finnish Table Tennis Association]
*[http://www.fftt.com/ French Table Tennis Federation]
*[http://www.tischtennis.de/ German Table Tennis Federation]
*[http://www.moatsz.hu/ Hungarian Table Tennis Association]
*[http://www.irishtabletennis.com/ Irish Table Tennis Association]
*[http://www.fitet.org/ Italian Table Tennis Federation]
*[http://www.ttaw.co.uk/ Table Tennis Association of Wales]
*[http://www.frtenismasa.ro/ Table Tennis Romania]
*[http://www.tabletennisscotland.com/ Table Tennis Scotland]
*[http://www.tmtf.gov.tr/ Turkish Table Tennis Association]

====Oceania====
*[http://www.ottf.org Oceania Table Tennis Federation]
*[http://www.tabletennis.org.au/ Table Tennis Australia]
*[http://www.tabletennis.org.nz/ Table Tennis New Zealand]

====South America====
*[http://www.ultm.org Latin American Table Tennis Union]
*[http://www.cbtm.org.br/ Brazilian Table Tennis Federation (BTTF)]
*[http://www.fatm.org.ar/ Argentinian Table Tennis Federation]
*[http://www.futm.org/ Uruguay Table Tennis Federation]

[[Category:Table tennis|*]]
[[Category:Olympic sports]]
[[Category:Racquet sports]]

{{Link FA|de}}

[[ar:تنس الطاولة]]
[[be:Настольны тэніс]]
[[bs:Stoni tenis]]
[[bg:Тенис на маса]]
[[ca:Tennis de taula]]
[[cs:Stolní tenis]]
[[da:Bordtennis]]
[[de:Tischtennis]]
[[et:Lauatennis]]
[[el:Επιτραπέζια αντισφαίριση]]
[[es:Tenis de mesa]]
[[eo:Tabloteniso]]
[[fa:تنیس روی میز]]
[[fo:Borðtennis]]
[[fr:Tennis de table]]
[[gl:Tenis de mesa]]
[[hak:Tsok-khiù]]
[[ko:탁구]]
[[hi:टेबल टेनिस]]
[[hr:Stolni tenis]]
[[id:Tenis meja]]
[[it:Tennis tavolo]]
[[he:טניס שולחן]]
[[ka:მაგიდის ჩოგბურთი]]
[[ht:Pingpong]]
[[lv:Galda teniss]]
[[lt:Stalo tenisas]]
[[hu:Asztalitenisz]]
[[mk:Пинг-понг]]
[[ms:Ping pong]]
[[nl:Tafeltennis]]
[[ja:卓球]]
[[no:Bordtennis]]
[[ug:تىكتاك توپ]]
[[pl:Tenis stołowy]]
[[pt:Tênis de mesa]]
[[ksh:Deshdënniß]]
[[ro:Tenis de masă]]
[[ru:Настольный теннис]]
[[sa:पटलानम्]]
[[simple:Table tennis]]
[[sk:Stolný tenis]]
[[sl:Namizni tenis]]
[[sr:Стони тенис]]
[[fi:Pöytätennis]]
[[sv:Bordtennis]]
[[tl:Pingpong]]
[[ta:மேசைப்பந்தாட்டம்]]
[[th:เทเบิลเทนนิส]]
[[vi:Bóng bàn]]
[[tr:Masa tenisi]]
[[uk:Настільний теніс]]
[[vec:Pinpón]]
[[zh:乒乓球]]

Wheel of Fortune (U.S. syndicated game show)

2008-07-07T16:04:05Z

Rungbachduong: + interwiki

{{refimprove|date=June 2008}}
{{otheruses4|the current, syndicated nighttime edition of the U.S. game show, which began in 1983|the original daytime series|Wheel of Fortune (US daytime game show)}}
{{Infobox Television
| image = [[Image:Wheel of Fortune 25th Anniversary.jpg|225px]]
| caption = ''Wheel of Fortune'' intertitle commemorating its 25th season.
| show_name = Wheel of Fortune
| format = [[Game show]]
| rating = {{TV-g}}
| picture_format = [[NTSC]] ([[480i]]), [[720p]] & [[1080i]] ([[HDTV]]) | creator = [[Merv Griffin]]
| starring = [[Pat Sajak]], host (1983-present) [[Vanna White]], co-host (1983-present) [[Charlie O'Donnell]], announcer (1989-present) [[M. G. Kelly]], announcer (1988-1989) [[Jack Clark (television)|Jack Clark]], announcer (1983-1988)
| country = [[USA]]
| network = [[Broadcast syndication|first-run syndication]]
| first_aired = [[September 19]], [[1983]]-present
| num_episodes = 4,865 as of [[May 30]], [[2008]]
|website = http://www.wheeloffortune.com/
|}}
'''''Wheel of Fortune''''' is a [[United States]] television [[game show]] created by [[Merv Griffin]]. Three contestants (occasionally three pairs of contestants) compete against each other to solve a word puzzle, similar to those seen in the game [[Hangman (game)|hangman]]. The name of the show comes from the large wheel that determines the dollar amounts and prizes won (or lost) by the contestants.

The show first aired in 1975 on daytime network television. The current version has been [[broadcast syndication|syndicated]] in [[prime time]] access beginning on [[September 19]] [[1983]], and has been the most watched syndicated program since May 1984. It is the longest-running syndicated game show in American television history, and the second-longest in either network or syndication (behind the current CBS version of ''[[The Price Is Right (U.S. game show)|The Price Is Right]]'', which began airing in [[1972]]). The show is produced by [[Sony Pictures Television]] and syndicated by [[CBS Television Distribution]] (which was formerly [[King World Productions]]).

[[Pat Sajak]] and [[Vanna White]] have hosted this version of the show since its debut, and [[Charlie O'Donnell]] has been the show's announcer since early 1989. [[Jack Clark (television personality)|Jack Clark]] served as the show's announcer until his death in July 1988; [[M. G. Kelly]] and [[Don Pardo]] filled in between 1988 and 1989 before O'Donnell, who had previously announced the daytime version, arrived. <ref>David Schwartz, Steve Ryan and Fred Wostbrock, ''The Encyclopedia of TV Game $hows'', Third Ed., Checkmark Books, 1999.</ref>

The show's 26th nighttime season premieres on September 8, 2008.

==Game play==
Before taping begins, the players draw numbers to determine their positions on stage. Play proceeds from right to left from the contestant's perspective: from the red player to yellow, then to blue, then back to red.
===Categories===
{{main|List of Wheel of Fortune puzzle categories}}
The game uses a wide variety of categories for its puzzles. Some are generic, such as "Place" or "Thing." Puzzles frequently refer to popular culture, such as the name of a celebrity, television show, book, song, or sports team. It is also common for puzzles to refer to everyday life, including common activities, foods, or objects usually found somewhere in one's house. Some puzzle categories involve word games which are unique to the show, and others allow a solving player to earn an additional cash prize by answering a question related to it. Prize puzzles (discussed below) offer a player a trip to a destination described by the puzzle.

===Toss-Up Puzzles===
The game contains three Toss-Up Puzzles. Players are given the category, and the hostess activates the board. Letters are randomly revealed until a player buzzes in and solves the puzzle. An incorrect guess disqualifies the player for the rest of the puzzle. The player solving the first Toss-Up wins $1,000 and is introduced first by the host. The player solving the second Toss-up wins $2,000 and starts the first round of the game. A $3,000 Toss-Up is played will decide which player will start Round 4.

===Spinning the Wheel===
The wheel has 24 spaces. These represent cash values, prizes, penalty spaces, two elements for use in the game, and some features which are specific to each round of the game (see below). A player who does not land on a penalty space asks for a consonant. If it is not in the puzzle, play proceeds to the next player. If the letter appears in the puzzle, the hostess reveals all instances of it, and the player is credited with cash or a prize. All descriptions of players being credited with cash or prizes in the remainder of this article assume that the player calls a consonant which appears in the puzzle.

[[Image:$5000 Space.jpg|thumb|left|200px|The $5000 space as seen in a 1997 episode of Wheel]]
'''Cash Spaces''': A player who spins a cash value is credited with that amount for each instance of that letter in the puzzle. Currently, the minimum cash value on the wheel is $300, and the top value (except as described below) is $2,500 in Round 1, $3,500 in Rounds 2 and 3, and $5,000 in Round 4 or more.

'''Prize Spaces and Gift Tags''': A player who lands on one of these and picks a correct consonant in the puzzle picks it up from the wheel, and wins that prize or gift by solving the puzzle without hitting Bankrupt. If not claimed, these are removed from the wheel after Round 3. From 1992-1998, there was also a prize wedge marked SURPRISE in black with the wedge in magenta glitter. Unlike the prize wedge, the prize was not announced until it was won.

'''Free Spin''': The Free Spin token may be used once to continue the player's turn if he solves the puzzle incorrectly, selects a letter that does not appear in the puzzle, or lands on a penalty wedge. Starting in 2007, the space is also worth $300 per letter when a player originally lands on it to pick it up. The token is available during the first three rounds.

'''Wild Card''': The Wild Card allows a player who spins a cash value to call an additional consonant for that same value, without spinning again and even if his first guess was not in the puzzle. A player may buy a vowel between the consonants. The Wild Card is lost upon hitting a Bankrupt. It also may be allowed to be used to call a fourth consonant in the Bonus Round. It can only be used once.

'''Penalty Spaces''': If a player lands on '''Lose A Turn''', play moves to the next contestant. A player landing on '''Bankrupt''' loses his or her turn and any prizes and cash accumulated in the round, including the Wild Card. Previous winnings are not affected. There is one Bankrupt on the wheel throughout the game, a second in Rounds 2 and 3, sometimes in Round 4 or more, but most likely in Round 4 or more is one Bankrupt on the wheel, and three others associated with special wedges as described below.

[[Image:$10,000 Space from 2007.jpg|thumb|right|225px|The Bankrupt/$10,000/Bankrupt space, as seen in 2007]]
'''Bankrupt/$10,000/Bankrupt''': Round 1 features a three-part wedge with a $10,000 cash prize sandwiched by two Bankrupts (see illustration). The wedge is treated like a prize wedge, and if the contestant lands on the $10,000 and guesses correctly the space is removed from the wheel. This money is not multiplied per letter, and cannot be spent on vowels. Like a regular Bankrupt, the cash and prizes are lost if landing on either Bankrupt on the wedge.

'''Jackpot''': Round 2 features a progressive jackpot which begins at $5,000 and increases by the value of each cash space landed on. A player who lands on the Jackpot space and calls a consonant which appears in the puzzle may try to win the Jackpot by solving the puzzle immediately. Landing on this space also adds $500 per valid consonant to a player's score, and to the Jackpot value itself. This round debuted on September 16, 1996. This was in Round 3 until 2000, when it moved to Round 2. In 1998, the Jackpot Round added a sponsor.

'''25 Wedge''': Round 2 also features a prize wedge marked "25" in commemoration of the syndicated show's 25th anniversary season (2007-08). This prize consists of "25 of something," such as gift certificates from a sponsor, or even $2,500 cash in $100 bills.

'''Big Money Wedge''': Starting with the 25th season, Round 3 features a wedge with a small flat-screen TV monitor initially displaying "Big Money". The value shown on the monitor randomly changes with each spin, among $5,000, $7,500, $25,000, Bankrupt and Lose a Turn. A contestant who lands on the wedge when it displays a cash value is credited with the amount of money on the monitor at the time. The Wild Card may be used here to call an additional consonant for the same amount. After the Big Money amount is claimed, the wedge then becomes a regular $1,000 space. Unlike the normal cash amounts, the Big Money prize is not increased by multiple consonants; however, unlike other cash prizes, it may be spent on vowels.

'''Mystery Wedges''': Round 3 also features the "Mystery wedges," two spaces with [[question mark]]s. A player landing here may either take $1,000 ($500 until 2004) per letter occurrence, or decline that money and turn over the wedge to reveal either a prize or a Bankrupt. Originally, the Mystery prize was a car; it is now almost always $10,000 in cash. After one Mystery wedge is revealed, the other acts as a $1,000 cash space for the rest of the round. Since 2005, the value of the wedge is shown to the home audience before the contestant makes a decision whether to reveal it.

===Buying a vowel===
A player who has sufficient cash in bank during the current round may choose to buy a vowel while in control of the wheel. The cost of the vowel, $250, is deducted from the player's score, and all instances of the requested vowel in the puzzle are revealed. If the purchased vowel is not in the puzzle, the player loses his or her turn in addition to the aforementioned cost.

The host will notify the players that there's "NO MORE VOWELS" if all vowels contained in the puzzle have been revealed, even if all five vowels have not been called. Multiple vowels may be purchased until either the player's bank or the supply of vowels is exhausted.
After purchasing a vowel the player must either spin the wheel or try to solve the puzzle.

===Solving the puzzle===
The player whose turn it is may guess the solution to the puzzle. If correct, the round ends, the complete puzzle is revealed, and the solving player wins the cash and prizes accumulated. A player who guesses incorrectly loses his turn. Totals less than $1,000 are automatically increased to the "house minimum" of that amount (per player in games with two-member teams). Only the player who solves the puzzle keeps the winnings from that round. The puzzle must be read exactly as it appears, and pronounced correctly, although dialectal variations in pronunciation are generally accepted.

'''Bonus solution''': Occasionally, the solving player is asked a question for an additional cash bonus, currently $3,000. If the puzzle is the first part of a phrase or quotation, the player is asked to give the next line. A player may be asked to identify the author of a book or product associated with a slogan. Players may also be asked to fill in a blank or identify a number or location associated with the puzzle.

'''Prize Puzzles''' award the winner with an additional prize, usually a trip, which is somehow related to the solution (e.g. if the solution is "Fun in the Sun", the prize might be a vacation to a tropical island). The prize puzzle will be randomly select the puzzle in either Rounds 1, 2, and/or 3.

'''SPIN I.D.''': Home viewers in the U.S. are given a chance to win some of the same prizes as the studio players, under the title "Wheel Watchers Club". Viewers who sign up on the show's website are given a "Special Prize Identification Number" (S.P.I.N.) A viewer whose number is revealed has 24 hours to go to the website and claim the prize, either the trip associated with a Prize Puzzle or a car won by the studio player in the Bonus Round. Sony Card holders who win the prize are awarded an additional $50,000.

===Speed-Up Round (Final Spin)===
The speed-up round happens no earlier than the fourth round, but may occur later, depending on how much time is left in the game. The speed-up round happens in four, five, and/or even six rounds. When time is running short in the game, a bell rings. The host spins the wheel, and all remaining consonants in the puzzle are worth $1,000 plus the value of this spin. The Wild Card or Free Spin cannot be used during this portion of the game. The players take turns giving one letter each. A vowel can be called at no cost, but also with no cash value. If the called letter appears in the puzzle, the player has three seconds to try to solve the puzzle. There is always a Final Spin, unlike in the past when the game could end after a puzzle is solved without one.

===End of the game===
The player who has won the most wins the game and proceeds to the Bonus Round. Players who fail to earn any cash or prizes on the show are awarded a consolation prize, currently $1,000 ($2,000 during special weeks where two non-celebrity players--such as family members of friends--play in teams). If two or more players finish the game with the same score, they play an additional Toss-Up puzzle to determine the winner.

===Celebrity weeks===
The show sometimes features themed weeks with celebrities paired with contestants. The celebrities play for charity. Each charity receives at least $10,000, and the one represented by the celebrity who plays in the Bonus Round may receive $25,000.

===Bonus round===
The player who wins the game plays the Bonus Round. The Bonus Wheel consists of 24 wedges, each containing an unmarked envelope. The contestant spins it to determine the prize he will win for solving the puzzle. The contestant is given a puzzle, its category, and the letters R, S, T, L, N, and E as they appear in it. The contestant then selects three more consonants and a second vowel. A contestant who has the Wild Card picks an additional consonant. The selected letters are revealed and the player has ten seconds to solve the puzzle. The player may win a cash amount from $25,000 to $100,000, or one of two cars.

Originally, when the contestants played for prizes rather than cash, the Bonus Round contestant selected one of the larger prizes which had not been won in the main game. Originally, the contestant was not given any letters automatically, but chose five consonants and one vowel, and had 15 seconds to solve the puzzle. Beginning in 1988, the most frequently chosen letters, R, S, T, L, N, and E, were given to the contestant automatically, and the player then selected three more consonants and one more vowel. The time to solve was reduced to ten seconds.

Beginning in 1989, the bonus round no longer allowed the contestants to choose their prize. The player drew an envelope placed behind one of the letters in the word WHEEL. Each prize could only be won once in each week of shows. This format continued until the current Bonus Round format, allowing for a possible $100,000 prize, was adopted in 2001. Since its introduction, the $100,000 bonus prize has been won 16 times.<ref>wheeloffortune.com</ref>. In June 2008, ''Wheel'' announced, during in-show advertisements, that the bonus round for season 26 (starting fall 2008) will have a top prize of $1,000,000. In order to go for the top prize, a player must spin the $1 million wedge, solve the puzzle, avoid bankrupt, and spin the $1,000,000 space on the bonus wheel.<ref name="bc-million">{{cite web|url=http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6575603.html|title=Wheel of Fortune Adds $1M Twist|last=Albiniak|first=Paige|date=2008-07-03|work=Broadcasting & Cable|accessdate=2008-07-04}}</ref>

==Retired Gameplay Elements==
Wheel of Fortune has utilized a number of production elements in the past that it has since retired from use.

===Shopping===
Prior to 1987, the game was not played for cash winnings. Money earned in solving a puzzle was used to shop for prizes displayed in the studio, primarily cars, furniture, trips, furs, and jewelry. A particular prize could only be bought once per episode. Each round had a themed prize showcase. The most expensive prizes were available throughout the game and in the Bonus Round. The winner of a round could place all or part of his or her winnings "On Account," banking (and risking) it to save toward a more expensive prize. Unlike already-purchased prizes, winnings On Account were lost if the player hit Bankrupt or did not win another round of the game. A player who could not buy the least expensive remaining prize was offered a [[gift certificate]] in the remaining amount for merchandise from a particular retailer (usually [[Service Merchandise]]). In 1987, the show adopted a play-for-cash format, which sped up game play by removing the time-consuming shopping segments between puzzles.

===Returning champions===
Until 1989, and again since 1998, contestants have been limited to one appearance. From 1989 through 1996, winning contestants could appear on up to three episodes. From 1996 to 1998, a "Friday Finals" format, which had been previously seen on some specialty weeks, was used regularly. The top three winners from the week's first four shows would return to play on Friday, with a Jackpot beginning at $10,000 instead of $5,000. For the first season of this format, the weekly champion also received a prize package.

Note: There was a contestant on a Season 25 episode from Wheel of Fortune in 2007 whom appeared on the show in 2000, which broke the rules above.

[[Image:Double Play from 1995.jpg|thumb|right|175px|The Double Play token, as seen in 1995]]

===Puzzle and wheel elements===
From 1983 to 1989, a tan '''Free Spin''' space was part of the first-round wheel, allowing contestants to earn a "Free Spin" token at any time they landed in the space. It was removed in favor of the current rules in the fall of 1989. Several contestants were known to land on the space several times in a row (and thus rack up several "Free Spin" tokens) without attempting to land on a dollar amount.

From 1992 to 1998, a '''Surprise''' space appeared on the wheel, representing a prize which was not revealed unless won. In 1995-96, a '''Double Play''' token appeared on the wheel. A player who earned it could turn it in before a future spin to double the spin's value. From 1992 to 1995, some puzzles would contain a set of specially designated, red-colored letters, which could be unscrambled to form another word or phrase. These '''Red Letter Puzzles''' were introduced in 1992 as a basis for home viewers to win cash or prizes by guessing the word and submitting a contest entry, and kept through 1995 to provide studio players with additional winnings. In the 1998-2000 seasons, a '''Puzzler''' was featured. The winner of a round was given an additional puzzle related to the same topic (for example, DAYTONA BEACH FLORIDA would lead to a Puzzler called AUTO RACING). In 1999-2000, a '''Preview Puzzle''' was shown to home viewers near the introduction of the show; it had no bearing on gameplay and was replaced by the Toss-Up Puzzles the following year.

==Sets==
{{Imageframe|width=360|align=right|content=[[Image:WOF Puzzle Board 1980s.jpg|175px]] [[Image:WOF Puzzle Board 2007-08.jpg|175px]]|caption=The Puzzle Board as it appeared through the 1997 season (left), and its current electronic counterpart (right).}}
===Puzzle boards===
Until 1997, the show used a manually-operated puzzle board composed of 48 [[trilon]]s in four rows. The board was surrounded by a double-arched border of lights which flashed at the beginning and end of the round. When a letter was placed in the puzzle, its space would light up, and White would turn the trilon to reveal it. In February 1997, the show adopted a computerized board composed of 52 monitors; to illuminate a letter, Vanna simply touches the right edge of the monitor. This board makes Toss-Up puzzles possible, and reveals a solution instantly. The digital board also has an advantage over the old one in that it no longer requires taping to stop in segments that had more than one puzzle. With the prior board, after a puzzle was solved, Pat would face the camera and announce "Here is our next puzzle", and while the viewers at home saw a seamless transition to the next puzzle, what actually happened was a show stop down. During the stop down, the board would be wheeled off stage and the new puzzle loaded in by hand out of sight of the contestants. On some episodes, reflections of the puzzle board being whisked off could be seen. With the new board, no stop downs were necessary, meaning tapings could finish quicker at a lower cost to the production company.<ref>[http://gscentral.net/wof/1997.htm Game Show Central: Wheel of Fortune Timeline]</ref> Also, as a result, some question whether a hostess is required since during Toss Up puzzles and revealing the answers are done instantly, instead of the hostess turning each letter, this meant that the hostess' role is less that a hostess wouldn't be required to reveal letters since they can done automatically.

===Score displays===
Until 2002, the show used [[eggcrate display]]s to display scores. These were replaced by LCD monitors, which also display special "Bankrupt" and "Lose a Turn" animations when those spaces are hit. Flat-panel displays were used beginning in 2007. For the Chi-Chi's Mexican specials near the end of Season 25, the scores were in Universal font.

===The Wheel===
The Wheel mechanism weighs two tons (4000 lbs.)<ref>[http://www.wheeloffortune.com/showguide/history/ Wheel of Fortune]</ref>, and is surrounded by light extensions. Until 1997, the wheel featured alternating gold lights and panels. This design was replaced by a metallic blue circle surrounded by gold panels, with several similar paneled spikes going around the wheel. However, the wheel's automation was discontinued as a result of this change. The current LED and glass light extension debuted in 2003.

====The Wheel's configuration====
[[Image:Thewheel-season24-wiki.jpg|thumb|right|225px|The wheel's configuration used for round 4 from 1999-2007, with $5,000 as the top dollar value.]]
{{main|Wheel of Fortune (The wheel's configuration)}}

==Changes==
The following is a list of some of the changes over the show's history.
====Cash Prizes and Wheel Dollar Values====
*'''1984:''' The top dollar value for Round 1 is raised from $750 to $1,000.
*'''1986:''' The lowest dollar value on the wheel is increased to $150 in Rounds 1, 2 and 3, and $200 in Round 4 and onward.
*'''1987:''' Shopping is replaced by play for cash. $2,500 becomes the top dollar value for Round 2, $3,500 for Round 3, and $5,000 for Round 4.
*'''1990:''' Bonus solutions are introduced, at a value of $500.
*'''1995:''' The value of a bonus solution is raised to $2,000.
*'''1996:''' The lowest dollar value on the wheel is increased to $250.
*'''1999:''' The lowest dollar value on the wheel is increased to $300, and $1,000 is added to the value of the Final Spin.
*'''2000:''' The top dollar value on the wheel is increased to $2,500 in Round 1 and $3,500 in Rounds 2 and 3. Toss-Up Puzzles are introduced.

*'''2002:''' $500 cash is the new consolation prize (formally parting gifts).
*'''2004:''' The value of the Mystery wedges is increased to $1,000.
*'''2005:''' The "house minimum" and consolation prize are increased to $1,000.
*'''2006:''' The Wild Card is introduced, replacing the second gift tag. The Jackpot wedge is now worth $500 per consonant.
*'''2007:''' The Free Spin space is also worth $300 per consonant. The "Big Money" wedge is introduced in Round 3 replacing the second Bankrupt.

====Prizes====
*'''1987:''' A second prize is placed on the wheel in Round 4.
*'''1992:''' The Surprise wedge is introduced, and used until 1998.
*'''1994:''' The Bankrupt/$10,000/Bankrupt wedge is introduced.
*'''2000:''' The $1,000 gift tag is introduced.
*'''2002:''' The Mystery wedges and a second gift tag are introduced.
*'''2003:''' Prize Puzzles are introduced.
*'''2004:''' The SPIN I.D. is introduced for home viewers.
*'''2007:''' The "25 Prize" is introduced.
*'''2008:''' The top bonus prize is raised from $100,000 to $1,000,000, as seen on a promo for the show.

====Set====
*'''1987:''' A neon "$25,000" sign represents as a prize in the Bonus Round.
*'''1988:''' Diamond-shaped backdrops are introduced and used for road shows until 1995. The neon "$25,000" sign is replaced with a grid-like version which is used until 1996.
*'''1989:''' Production moves to CBS Television City. Chevron-shaped backdrops are now used until 1991.
*'''1990:''' A shiny black floor is introduced.
*'''1991:''' The diamond-shaped road show backdrops are now used full-time until 1992.
*'''1992:''' Asterisk-shaped, firework-like backdrops are used until 1996 except for road shows.
*'''1994:''' The puzzle board gets a new border with golden spiked lights.
*'''1995:''' Production moves to Sony Pictures Studios. The pink $1,000 wedge is replaced with a sequin green one which is used until 2000.
*'''1996:''' A central video display is introduced. The backdrops are randomized until 1998. A single wheel template is now used for the entire game. The LOSE A TURN wedge (formerly Yellow) becomes white for enhanced contrast with the BANKRUPT wedge. The yellow $750, $1,000, and $1,500 wedges are discontinued.
*'''1997:''' The touch-screen puzzle board debuts. Arrow-shaped spires are added to the wheel's lighting. The wheel's automation is discontinued.
*'''1998:''' The randomized backdrops are replaced with a large flat-screen display. Prize wedges are given distinct artistic designs.
*'''2002:''' The eggcrate score displays are replaced with new flat-screens which feature BANKRUPT & LOSE A TURN.
*'''2003:''' The show receives a new set featuring LED lights. The color font on the Bonus Wheel is Blue instead of Red.
*'''2004:''' A New LED Bonus Wheel is introduced.
*'''2005:''' The Bonus Wheel is part of the closing of every episode.
*'''2006:''' The wheel is redesigned for high-definition broadcasting.
*'''2007:''' The score displays and the Puzzle Board are revamped with new flat-screens for the 25th season. The Second BANKRUPT no longer appears on the Wheel after Round 3.
*'''2008:''' The Bonus Wheel no longer appears at the closing of every episode.

====Theme music====
From 1983 to 2000, the show's theme music was "Changing Keys" by program creator Merv Griffin. Since 2000, the theme has been "Happy Wheels" by Steve Kaplan. Several variations on each theme have been used throughout the years.

====Production====
''Wheel of Fortune'''s original home was [[NBC Studios]] in Burbank, the same place where its [[Wheel of Fortune (US daytime game show)|daytime counterpart]] was taped. In 1989 the show moved to [[CBS Television City]], remaining there until 1995 when production moved to its current home at [[Sony Pictures Studios]].

==Winnings records==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Record
! Set by
! Amount
! Air date
|-
| All time winnings, overall & team (returning champions format)
| Peter Argyropolous and Deborah Cohen
| $146,529
| February 1996 (two shows)<ref>[http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-63310222.html HOW TO GET ON A GAME SHOW Easy, you say. Is that your final answer? If it is, think again. Otherwise,you lose.(SPOTLIGHT) - The Fresno Bee (Fresno, CA) - HighBeam Research]</ref>
|-
| All time winnings, solo player (returning champions format)
| Mindi Mitola
| $146,254
| September 1990 (three shows){{fact|date=February 2008}}
|-
| One-day team winnings
| Christine Denos and [[Jack Wagner (actor)|Jack Wagner]]
| $142,550
| February 28, 2006<ref>[http://www.wheeloffortune.com/showguide/history/ Wheel of Fortune]</ref>
|-
| One-day solo winnings
| Becca Rhine
| $128,177
| February 7, 2007<ref>[http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch07/0207/arc02154012097.shtml Wheel winner]</ref>
|}

==Episode Status==
Repeat episodes of this version of the show are seen on [[Game Show Network|GSN]]. Several seasons have been aired on GSN. The current season being rerun is The 1994-95 Season.

==Merchandise==
===Board games===
Numerous board games version of the game have been released by different toy companies. The games are all similar, however, incorporating a wheel, a puzzle display board, fake money and various accessories like free spin tokens.
*[[Milton Bradley]] released the first board game in [[1975]]. In addition to all the supplies mentioned above, the game included 20 prize cards (to simulate the "shopping" prizes of the show; the prizes ranged in value from $100 to $3,000). Two editions were released.
*[[Pressman Toy Corporation|Pressman Toy Corp.]] released several different editions from [[1985]] to [[1991]].
*[[Tyco]]/[[Mattel]] created three editions from [[1992]] to [[1998]]
*[[Parker Brothers]] released their own version in [[1999]]
*Pressman Toy Corp. has released four editions since [[2002]], including a 20th Anniversary edition,a Simpsons edition,and a Disney Version as well and retains the rights at present.

===Video, arcade, slot, and online games===
{{main|Wheel of Fortune (video game)}}

===Mobile game===
In 2005, '''Info Space Games''' teamed up with Sony Pictures Mobile to create the mobile game ''Wheel of Fortune for Prizes''. Players competed against others across the U.S. in multi-player tournaments for a chance to win daily and weekly prizes.

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
{{wikiquote}}

* {{Official|http://www.wheeloffortune.com/}}
* [http://www.u-gottaseethis.com/ U-gottaseethis.com] A website from Sony with classic Wheel video clips

[[Category:Wheel of Fortune]]
[[Category:TV word game shows]]
[[Category:American game shows]]
[[Category:First-run syndicated television programs in the United States]]
[[Category:Television series by Sony Pictures Television]]
[[Category:Television series by CBS Paramount Television]]
[[Category:Roulette and wheel games]]
[[Category:Mobile phone games]]
[[Category:Sony mobile games]]
[[Category:1980s American television series]]
[[Category:1990s American television series]]
[[Category:2000s American television series]]
[[Category:1983 television series debuts]]

[[da:Lykkehjulet]]
[[de:Glücksrad (Spielshow)]]
[[es:Wheel of Fortune]]
[[fr:La Roue de la fortune]]
[[it:La Ruota della Fortuna]]
[[he:גלגל המזל]]
[[nl:Rad van Fortuin (televisieprogramma)]]
[[ja:ホイール・オブ・フォーチュン (テレビ番組)]]
[[pl:Koło Fortuny]]
[[pt:Wheel of Fortune]]
[[fi:Onnenpyörä]]
[[vi:Chiếc nón kỳ diệu]]

Isabella Rossellini

2008-07-05T23:47:01Z

Rungbachduong: /* Background */ - fact?

{{Infobox actor
| name = Isabella Rossellini
| image = Isabella_Rossellini_-_at_the_2005_Torino_Film_Festival.jpg
| imagesize = 200px
| caption = Isabella Rossellini at the 2005 Torino Film Festival
| birthdate = {{birth date and age|1952|6|18}}
| location = [[Rome]], [[Italy]]
| birthname = Isabella Fiorella Elettra Giovanna Rossellini
| spouse = [[Martin Scorsese]] (1979–1982) Jonathan Wiedemann (1983–1986)
| children = [[Elettra Rossellini Wiedemann]] (b.1983)
| parents = [[Roberto Rossellini]] (1906-1977) [[Ingrid Bergman]] (1915-1982)
| yearsactive = 1976 - present
| awards = '''[[Saturn Award for Best Supporting Actress (film)]]''' 1992 ''[[Death Becomes Her]]'' '''[[Independent Spirit Award for Best Actress]]''' 1986 ''[[Blue Velvet]]''
}}

'''Isabella Fiorella Elettra Giovanna Rossellini''' (born [[June 18]], [[1952]]) is an [[Italian people|Italian]] [[Actor|actress]], [[filmmaker]], [[author]], [[philanthropist]], and [[model (person)|model]]. Rossellini is noted for her 14-year tenure as a [[Lancôme]] model, and for her roles in films such as ''[[Blue Velvet]]'' and ''[[Death Becomes Her]]''.

==Biography==
===Background===
Rossellini is the daughter of [[Sweden|Swedish]] actress [[Ingrid Bergman]] and the [[Italy|Italian]] director [[Roberto Rossellini]]. She has three siblings from her mother: her twin sister [[Ingrid Rossellini|Isotta Ingrid Rossellini]], who is an adjunct [[professor]] of [[Italian literature]]; a brother, Roberto Ingmar Rossellini, who works in [[finance]]; and a half-sister, [[Pia Lindström]], who formerly worked on television and is from her mother's first marriage. She also has four other siblings from her father's two other marriages: Romano (died at age 9), Renzo, Gil, and Raffaella.<ref>{{cite news |title=Like Father... |url=http://film.guardian.co.uk/venice/story/0,,1299861,00.html |work=Guardian Unlimited |publisher=Guardian News and Media Limited |date=2004-09-06 |accessdate=2007-01-29 }}</ref>

Rossellini was born and raised in [[Rome]], [[Santa Marinella]], and [[Paris]]. At the age of 13, she was diagnosed with [[scoliosis]]. In order to correct it, Isabella had to undergo an 18 month ordeal of painful stretchings, body casts, surgery on her spine using pieces of one of her shin bones (used to add supports for the individual vertebrae without risking foreign body rejection issues), and a recovery from that surgery. Consequently, she has permanent incision scars on her back and shin. Incidentally, her daughter, [[Elettra Rossellini Wiedemann|Elettra]], also developed scoliosis when she was a child.{{fact|July 2008}}

At the age of 19, she came to New York, where she attended [[Finch College]] while working as a translator and a [[RAI]] television reporter. She also appeared intermittently on [[Roberto Benigni]]'s Italian comedy show, ''The Other Sunday''. However, she did not decide to stay full time in New York until her marriage to [[Martin Scorsese]] (1979–1982). After her marriage to Scorsese, she married Jon Wiedemann (1983–1986), a German model (now a Microsoft executive), and gave birth to a daughter, [[Elettra Rossellini Wiedemann|Elettra]]. Later, she dated [[David Lynch]], [[Gary Oldman]], and [[Gregory Mosher]].

===Modeling career===
At the age of 28, her modeling career began, when she was photographed by [[Bruce Weber (photographer)|Bruce Weber]] for [[Vogue (magazine)|British ''Vogue'']] and by Bill King for American ''[[Vogue (magazine)|Vogue]]''. During her career, she has also worked with many other renowned photographers, including [[Richard Avedon]], [[Steven Meisel]], [[Helmut Newton]], [[Peter Lindbergh]], [[Norman Parkinson]], [[Eve Arnold]], [[Francesco Scavullo]], [[Annie Leibovitz]], and [[Robert Mapplethorpe]]. Her image has appeared on such magazines as ''[[Marie Claire]]'', ''[[Harper's Bazaar]]'', ''[[Vanity Fair (magazine)|Vanity Fair]]'', and ''[[ELLE]]''. Furthermore, in March 1988, an exhibition dedicated to photographs of her, called ''Portrait of a Woman'', was held at the Musee d'Art Moderne in [[Paris]].

Rossellini's modeling career led her into the world of [[cosmetics]], when she became the exclusive spokesmodel for the international cosmetics brand [[Lancôme]] in 1982, replacing [[Nancy Dutiel]] in the United States and [[Carol Alt]] in Europe. While there, in 1990, she was involved in product development for Lancôme's fragrance Trésor. Later, in 1995, she worked with the Coty Group and developed her own brand of cosmetics, Isabella Rossellini's Manifesto. However, in 1996, after 14 years with the company, she was infamously removed as the face of Lancôme for being "too old", since she was in her 40s at the time. She is signed to [[Trump Model Management]].

===Film career===
Rossellini made her film debut with a brief appearance as a nun opposite her mother in the [[1976 in film|1976]] film ''[[A Matter of Time (1976 film)|A Matter of Time]]''. However, she did not truly begin acting until the [[1979 in film|1979]] film ''Il Prato''. She did not become successful with acting until after her mother's death in 1982, when she was cast in her first American film, [[White Nights (film)|White Nights]] ([[1985 in film|1985]]). Nonetheless, she is probably best known for her pivotal role as the nightclub singer Dorothy Vallens in [[David Lynch]]'s ''[[Blue Velvet]]''. Some other notable film [[r]]oles include her work in ''[[Cousins (film)|Cousins]]'', ''[[Death Becomes Her]]'', ''[[Immortal Beloved (film)|Immortal Beloved]]'', and ''[[Fearless (1993 film)|Fearless]]''.

In 2003, Rossellini had a recurring role on the television series, ''[[Alias (TV series)|Alias]]''. In that same year, she also appeared in the [[Canada|Canadian]] film ''[[The Saddest Music in the World]]'' directed by [[Guy Maddin]]. In 2004 she played as the High Priestess Thar in the [[Sci Fi Channel (United States)|Sci Fi Channel]] miniseries ''[[Legend of Earthsea (TV miniseries)|Legend of Earthsea]]''. In addition, she acted in an Off-Broadway production of ''[[Stendhal syndrome|The Stendhal Syndrome]]''. Furthermore, she became an ambassador for the Silversea Cruise Line, which has her appearing in print ads and on their website.<ref name="Silversea">{{cite web |url=http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1189 |title=News: Actress Isabella Rossellini Joins Silversea |accessdate=2007-02-09 |work=Cruise Critic News: Cruise Reviews and News | date=2004-10-11 }}</ref>

In 2006, Rossellini was on television for several documentaries. First, she narrated a two-hour television special on [[Italy]] for the [[Discovery Channel]]'s ''[[Discovery Atlas]]'' series, in order to show a glimpse of present-day Italy. In addition, on an episode of the [[Sundance Channel]] series [[Iconoclasts (Sundance Channel)|''Iconoclasts'']], which also featured the [[Segway PT]] inventor [[Dean Kamen]], she told about her past and what activities she is currently involved in.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.sundancechannel.com/iconoclasts/?section=episodes&ixContent=9747 |title=Episode 4: Isabella Rossellini + Dean Kamen |accessdate=2007-01-29 |work=Iconoclasts: change the way you see celebrity |publisher=Sundance Channel L.L.C. }}</ref> In 2007, Rossellini guest starred on two episodes of the television show ''[[30 Rock]]'', playing [[Alec Baldwin]]'s ex-wife.

In 2008, Rossellini toured the festival circuit with a series of short films entitled [[Green Porno]], which she wrote and co-directed with [[Jody Shapiro]]. Each [[Green Porno]] film is one minute long, and has Rossellini reenacting the mating rituals of various insects.

Rossellini received a 1987 [[Independent Spirit Award]] for Best Female Lead for her role in ''[[Blue Velvet]]''. In 1997, she received two notable award nominations. She received a [[Golden Globe Award|Golden Globe]] nomination for Best Performance by an Actress in a Mini-Series or Motion Picture Made for TV for her role in ''[[Crime of the Century]]'' and an [[Primetime Emmy Award|Emmy Award]] nomination for Outstanding Guest Actress in a Drama Series for her work on the television series ''[[Chicago Hope]]''.

===Activism===
Outside of acting, modeling, and cosmetics, Rossellini is involved in conservation efforts. She is a board member of the Wildlife Conservation Network.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.wildnet.org/who.htm#board |title=About WCN |accessdate=2007-01-29 |work=Wildlife Conservation Network |publisher=Wildlife Conservation Network, Inc. }}</ref> In addition, she is the president and director of the Howard Gilman Foundation, a leading institution focused on the preservation of wildlife, arts, photography and dance.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.activistcash.com/foundation.cfm/did/1037 |title=Howard Gilman Foundation |accessdate=2007-01-29 |work=ActivistCash.com |publisher=Center for Consumer Freedom}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.animalplanetasia.com/conservation/people/isabella_rossellini/index.shtml |title=Famous Conservationists: Isabella Rossellini |accessdate=2007-01-29 |work=Animal Planet |publisher=Discovery Communications Inc.}}</ref> [[Disney]] gave $100,000 to her to help with her conservation efforts in those two organizations.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://disney.go.com/disneyhand/environmentality/dwcf/ |title=Environmentality: Disney Wildlife Conservation Fund |accessdate=2007-01-29 |work=Disney Worldwide Outreach |publisher=Disney }}</ref> She has also helped with the Central Park Conservancy.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.nrpa.org/content/default.aspx?documentId=1520 |title=Power Play - July 2004 - Isabella Rossellini |accessdate=2007-01-29 |work=Park and Recreation Magazine |publisher=National Recreation and Park Association }}</ref> Furthermore, Rossellini is considered a major benefactor of the Bellport-Brookhaven Historical Society of [[Bellport, New York|Bellport, Long Island]], where she is a part-time resident.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DE2DB1539F937A1575BC0A9659C8B63&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/M/Mead,%20Julia%20C.|title=EXHIBITS; How the Gruccis' Pyrotechnics Grew |accessdate=2007-12-02 |work=New York Times |publisher=NYT }}</ref>

Rossellini is also involved in training guide dogs for the blind.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.guidedog.org/pupprog/pupprog.htm |title=Puppy Program |accessdate=2007-01-29 |publisher=Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind, Inc.}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |first=Verena |last=Dobnik |title=Rossellini gains new insight from guide dog training |url=http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20041228/ai_n12573482 |work=Chicago Sun-Times |publisher=The Chicago Sun-Times, Inc. |date=2004-12-28 |accessdate=2007-01-29 }}</ref> In addition, she is a former trustee of the [[George Eastman House]] and a 1997 [[George Eastman]] Award honoree for her support of film preservation.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.eastmanhouse.org/inc/press_room/06-05-29-1.php |title=Press Room: Isabella Rossellini visits Eastman House [[May 1]] |accessdate=2007-01-29 |date=2006-03-29 |work=George Eastman House: International Museum of Photography and Film |publisher=George Eastman House}}</ref> She is also a National Ambassador for the U.S. Fund for [[UNICEF]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.unicefusa.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=duLRI8O0H&b=86848&ct=127636 |title=News Releases: Angela Bassett, Alyssa Milano, Isabella Rossellini, Liv Tyler and Courtney B. Vance appointed National Ambassadors for the U.S. Fund for UNICEF |accessdate=2007-01-29 |date=2003-11-18 |work=United States for UNICEF |publisher=United States Fund for UNICEF }}</ref>

===Writing===
Rossellini has written three books. In 1997, her self-described fictional memoir, ''Some of Me'', was published. In 2002, she released her second book, ''Looking at Me (on pictures and photographers)''. In 2006, ''In the name of the Father, the Daughter and the Holy Spirits: Remembering Roberto Rossellini'' was published and was accompanied by the Guy Maddin-directed short film ''My Dad Is 100 Years Old'' (both the film and the book are tributes to her father). In the film, she played almost every role, including [[David Selznick]], [[Alfred Hitchcock]], and her mother [[Ingrid Bergman]].

==Personal life==
Isabella Rossellini holds dual United States and Italian citizenship.<ref name="Silversea" /><ref>{{cite journal | author = Isabella Rossellini | date = 2001-11-06 | title = In Defense of Fallaci | journal = New York Times | url = http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A05E4D61539F935A35752C1A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink | accessdate = 2007-02-09 }}</ref> She has a daughter, [[Elettra Rossellini Wiedemann]] (born 1983), and an adopted son, Roberto (born 1993).<ref>{{cite news |title=People always say: 'It's Ingrid' |url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2006/06/16/bfisabella16.xml |work=Telegraph.co.uk |publisher=Telegraph Media Group Limited|date=2006-06-16 |accessdate=2007-01-29 }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |first=Annabel |last=Rivkin |title=She's Elettra |work=Evening Standard |publisher=Associated Newspapers Ltd. |date=2004-11-12 |accessdate=2007-01-29 }}</ref>

==Credits==
===Filmography===
* ''[[A Matter of Time (1976 film)|A Matter of Time]]'' (1976)
* ''Il Prato'' (''The Meadow'')
* ''Il Pap'occhio'' (1980)
* ''[[White Nights (film)|White Nights]]'' (1985)
* ''[[Blue Velvet]]'' (1986)
* ''Oci Ciornie'' (1987)
* ''[[Tough Guys Don't Dance (film)|Tough Guys Don't Dance]]'' (1987)
* ''Siesta'' (1987)
* ''Zelly and Me'' (1988)
* ''[[Cousins (film)|Cousins]]'' (1989)
* ''[[Red Riding Hood]]'' (1989)
* ''[[Wild at Heart (film)|Wild at Heart]]'' (1990)
* ''Dames Galantes'' (1990)
* ''Caccia Alla Vedova'' (1991)
* ''[[Death Becomes Her]]'' (1992)
* ''The Pickle'' (1993)
* ''[[The Innocent]]'' (1993)
* ''[[Fearless (1993 film)|Fearless]]'' (1993)
* ''[[Wyatt Earp (film)|Wyatt Earp]]'' (1994)
* ''[[Immortal Beloved (film)|Immortal Beloved]]'' (1994)
* ''Croce e delizia'' (1995)
* ''[[Big Night]]'' (1996)
* ''[[The Funeral (1996 film)|The Funeral]]'' (1996)
* ''[[Left Luggage (film)|Left Luggage]]'' (1998)
* ''[[The Impostors]]'' (1998)
* ''Il Cielo cade'' (2000)
* ''[[Empire (2002 film)|Empire]]'' (2002)
* ''[[Roger Dodger (film)|Roger Dodger]]'' (2002)
* ''[[The Tulse Luper Suitcases|The Tulse Luper Suitcases, Part 1: The Moab Story]]'' (2003)
* ''[[The Saddest Music in the World]]'' (2003)
* ''[[The Tulse Luper Suitcases|The Tulse Luper Suitcases, Part 2: Vaux to the Sea]]'' (2004)
* ''[[King of the Corner]]'' (2004)
* ''[[Heights]]'' (2004)
* ''La Fiesta Del Chivo'' (2005)
* ''My Dad is 100 Years Old'' (2005)
* ''[[The Architect (film)|The Architect]]'' (2006)
* ''[[Infamous (film)|Infamous]]'' (2006)
* ''The Last Jews of Libya'' (2007)
* ''[[The Accidental Husband]]'' (2008)
* ''[[My Dog Tulip]]'' (2008)
* ''[[Two Lovers (film)|Two Lovers]]'' (2008)
* ''[[Green Porno]]'' (2008)<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.sundancechannel.com/minisites/greenporno/pr/Green%20Porno%20General%20Press%20kit.pdf |title=Green Porno Press Kit |accessdate=2008-05-03 |date=2008-03-24 |format=PDF |work=Sundancechannel.com |publisher=[[Sundance Channel|The Sundance Channel]]}}</ref>

===Television credits===
* ''[[The Tracey Ullman Show]]'' (3 episodes, 1989–1990)
* ''Ivory Hunters'' (1990)
* ''Lies Of the Twins'' (1991)
* ''[[Fallen Angels (TV series)|Fallen Angels]]" (1 episode, 1993)
* ''[[The Gift (1994 film)|The Gift]]'' (1994)
* ''[[Tales from the Crypt (TV series)|Tales from the Crypt]]'' (1 episode, 1995)
* ''[[Friends]]'' (1 episode, 1996)
* ''Crime of the Century'' (1996)
* ''[[Chicago Hope]]'' (2 episodes, 1997)
* ''[[The Odyssey (TV miniseries)|The Odyssey]]'' (1997)
* ''[[Merlin (film)|Merlin]]'' (1998)
* ''[[The Simpsons]]'' (1 episode, 1999)
* ''[[Don Quixote]]'' (2000)
* ''[[Napoléon (miniseries)|Napoleon]]'' (2002)
* ''[[Monte Walsh]]'' (2003)
* ''[[Legend of Earthsea|Earthsea]]'' (2004)
* ''[[Alias (TV series)|Alias]]'' (5 episodes, 2004–2005)
* ''Filthy Gorgeous'' (2006)
* ''[[Discovery Atlas|Discovery Atlas: Italy Revealed]]'' (2006)
* ''[[Iconoclasts (Sundance Channel)|Iconoclasts]]'' (2006)
* ''[[30 Rock]]'' (2 episodes, 2007)

===Theatre credits===
*''[[Stendhal syndrome|The Stendhal Syndrome]]'' (2004) (off-Broadway)

==Notes==
{{reflist}}

==References==
*{{cite web |url=http://www.iconoclaststv.com/ |title=Isabella Rossellini: Biography |accessdate=2007-01-29 |format=[[Adobe Flash|Flash]] |work=Iconoclasts |publisher=Sundance Channel L.L.C. }}

==Further reading==
*{{cite book | author=Rossellini, Isabella| title=Some of Me | publisher=Random House | year=1997 | location=New York | isbn=0-679-45252-4}}
*{{cite book | author=Rossellini, Isabella| title=Looking at Me (on pictures and photographers)| publisher=Schirmer Art | year=2002 | location=Munich | isbn=3-8296-0057-7}}
*{{cite book | author=Rossellini, Isabella| title=In the Name of the Father, the Daughter and the Holy Spirits, Remembering Roberto Rossellini | publisher=Haus Publishing | year=2006 | location=London | isbn=1-9049-5091-4}}

==External links==
{{commonscat|Isabella Rossellini}}
* {{imdb name|id=618|name=Isabella Rossellini }}
* {{tcmdb name|id=165789|name=Isabella Rossellini }}
* {{fashionmodel|id=Isabella_Rossellini|name=Isabella Rossellini}}
* [http://www.lortel.org/LLA_archive/index.cfm?search_by=people&first=Isabella&middle=&last=Rossellini Isabella Rossellini] at the [http://www.iobdb.com Internet Off-Broadway Database]
* [http://ae.philly.com/entertainment/ui/philly/movie.html?id=127217&reviewId=15096 Interview with Isabella Rossellini before the release of ''The Saddest Music in the World''.]
* [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_n2_v26/ai_18082731/pg_1 Interview with Isabella Rossellini after 14 years with Lancôme]
* [http://film.guardian.co.uk/interview/interviewpages/0,,2072828,00.html Interview with Isabella Rossellini about her career and her parent's legacy]



{{Persondata
|NAME=Rossellini, Isabella
|ALTERNATIVE NAMES=Rossellini, Isabella Fiorella Elettra Giovanna
|SHORT DESCRIPTION=Actress, Model, Filmmaker, Author, Philanthropist
|DATE OF BIRTH=[[June 18]], [[1952]]
|PLACE OF BIRTH=[[Rome]], [[Italy]]
|DATE OF DEATH=
|PLACE OF DEATH=
}}
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[[Category:1952 births]]
[[Category:People from Rome (city)]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:Italian film actors]]
[[Category:Italian actors]]
[[Category:Italian fashion models]]
[[Category:Italians of Swedish descent]]
[[Category:Italian Roman Catholics]]
[[Category:Italian female models]]
[[Category:Saturn Award winners]]

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[[zh:伊莎貝拉·羅塞里尼]]

Penélope Cruz

2008-07-05T02:49:18Z

Rungbachduong: /* Personal life */ +fact?

{{Infobox actor
| name = Penélope Cruz
| image = PenelopeCruz.jpg
| imagesize = 160px
| caption = Penélope Cruz
| birthname = Penélope Cruz Sánchez
| birthdate = {{birth date and age|1974|4|28}}
| birthplace = [[Alcobendas]], [[Community of Madrid|Madrid]], [[Spain]]
| othername =
| occupation = [[Actress]]
| yearsactive =
| spouse =
| homepage =
| academyawards =
| goyaawards = '''[[Goya Award for Best Actress|Best Actress]]''' 1998 ''[[La niña de tus ojos]]'' 2006 ''[[Volver]]''
| emmyawards =
| tonyawards =
| awards = '''[[Prix d'interprétation féminine|Best Actress Award]] - [[Cannes Film Festival]]''' 2006 (with all the female cast) ''[[Volver]]''
}}

'''Penélope Cruz Sánchez''' ({{pronounced|pe̞ˈne̞ˑlo̞pe̞ ˈkɾuθ̟ ˈs̺änʲʨe̞θ̟ or Pe-ne-lope Cr-oo-z}}; born [[April 28]], [[1974]]), better known as '''Penélope Cruz''', is a [[Spain|Spanish]] actress and the muse of [[Pedro Almodóvar]]. She gathered critical acclaim as a young actress for films such as [[Jamón, jamón]], [[Carne trémula]], [[La Niña de tus ojos]] and [[Belle époque]]. She has also starred in several American films such as [[Blow]] and [[Bandidas]].

Cruz has been awarded two [[Goya]]s, two [[European Film Award]]s and the [[Coppa Volpi]] for her work. She is notable as the first Spanish and third [[Hispanic]] actress to be nominated for an [[Academy Award for Best Actress]] for her role in the 2006 Spanish [[Almodóvar]] film [[Volver]].

==Biography==
===Early life===
Cruz was born in [[Alcobendas]], [[Community of Madrid|Madrid]], [[Spain]], the daughter of Encarna Sánchez, a hairdresser, and Eduardo Cruz, a retailer and auto mechanic.<ref>[http://www.filmreference.com/film/70/Penelope-Cruz.html Penelope Cruz Biography (1974-)]</ref> Her younger sister is Spanish dancer [[Mónica Cruz]].<ref name="Yahoo Corazon">{{cite web|url=http://es.celebrities.yahoo.com/famosos/P/penelope-cruz.html|title=Yahoo Corazon!|language=Spanish|accessdate=2007-03-15}}</ref> As a toddler, she was already a compulsive performer, re-enacting TV commercials for her family's amusement. Initially, Cruz decided to focus her energies on dance. After studying classical ballet for nine years at Spain's National Conservatory, she continued her training under a series of prominent dancers. She received three years of Spanish Ballet training with Ángela Garrido. She also had jazz dance training with Raúl Caballero and studied at [[Cristina Rota]] (mother of [[Juan Diego Botto]]) school in [[Madrid]]. At 15, however, she followed another calling after besting more than 300 other girls at a talent agency audition.

===Career===
Cruz first achieved fame when she appeared in the Lucio Villalba-directed video clip ''La fuerza del destino'' for the Spanish [[synthpop]] group [[Mecano]]. She later started a relationship with [[Nacho Cano]], a member of the group.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.terra.com/entretenimiento/penelopecruz/|title=Terra.com entry|language=Spanish|accessdate=2007-03-15}}</ref> A TV presenter for the teen-oriented program ''La Quinta Marcha'',<ref name="Yahoo Corazon"/> she also had early exposure in ''Série Rose'', a French erotic TV serial.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0131187/epcast|title=IMDb entry - "Série rose" (1986)|accessdate=2007-03-15}}</ref> In one episode she played the role of a blind prostitute and in another played a young noble woman pretending to be a young nobleman in a comedy of errors. She also directed Nacho Cano's video of "El waltz de los locos", in 1994.

Cruz's first major films were ''[[Jamón, jamón]]'' and ''[[Belle Époque (film)|Belle Époque]]'', a film which won an [[Academy Award for Foreign Language Film]]. In 1997, she starred as Sofía Pangia, alongside [[Eduardo Noriega (Spanish actor)|Eduardo Noriega]] in ''[[Abre los ojos]]'', directed by [[Alejandro Amenábar]], while in 1999 she appeared in [[Pedro Almodóvar]]'s ''[[Todo sobre mi madre]]'' (All About My Mother), which won an Academy Award for Foreign Language Film. In 2000 she appeared with [[Matt Damon]] in ''[[All the Pretty Horses (film)|All the Pretty Horses]]''.

In late 2001, she appeared in the film ''[[Vanilla Sky]]'', the Hollywood remake of ''[[Abre los ojos]]''. Cruz co-starred with her best friend, [[Salma Hayek]] in the 2006 film, ''[[Bandidas]]''.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.showbuzz.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/09/people/main2344497.shtml||title=Cruz on Hayek: Like Sisters! Not Lovers|access date=2007-03-15}}</ref> In 2006, Cruz received highly favourable reviews for her performance in [[Pedro Almodóvar]]'s ''[[Volver]]''. She won a [[Best Actress Award (Cannes Film Festival)|Best Actress]] ensemble award at the [[Cannes Film Festival]] and has been nominated for an [[Academy Award]], [[Golden Globe Award]], [[Screen Actors Guild]] Award and [[BAFTA]] Award. She is the first Spanish Actress to be nominated for the [[Academy Award for Best Actress]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.elpais.com/articulo/cultura/videoclip/carrera/Oscars/elpepucul/20070123elpepucul_2/Tes|title=ElPais.com - De un vídeoclip a la carrera de los Oscars|language=Spanish|accessdate=2007-03-15}}</ref>

In May 2007, it was announced that Penelope and her sister Mónica would be designing a 25-piece collection for the Barcelona-based fashion chain, [[Mango (clothing)|Mango]].<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.fashionunited.co.uk/news/mango.htm |title=Mango spain, fashion, collection, newspage |accessdate=2008-01-08}}</ref> On [[7 July]] [[2007]], Cruz presented at [[Live Earth]]. In late 2007, she starred in the [[Jaume de Laiguana]]-directed video for her brother's first single, named "Cosas que contar", along with her friend [[Mía Maestro]] and her sister Mónica.

===Personal life===
Cruz has a younger brother, Eduardo, a singer, and a younger sister, Mónica, who closely resembles her: a similarity exploited for some Spanish TV ads. In the 2000s, Mónica left her dancing career and achieved note on her own in the youth-oriented TV series ''Un Paso Adelante''.

Cruz claims to be a [[Vegetarianism|vegetarian]] since 2000, though this fact is disputed.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.ivu.org/people/actors/cruz.html|title=International Vegetarian Union entry}}</ref> She speaks four languages: Spanish, Italian, French and English. Cruz has also donated a considerable amount of money and time to charity. In 1997 she volunteered in [[Uganda]] for two months.
[[Image:Penelope cruz ben kingsley.jpg|thumb|right|250px|Cruz shopping with actor [[Ben Kingsley]]]]
After appearing in the 2001 film ''[[Vanilla Sky]]'' with [[Tom Cruise]], they had a three-year relationship which ended in January 2004. After filming ''[[Sahara (2005 film)|Sahara]]'' in February 2005, she began dating actor [[Matthew McConaughey]]. In May 2006, they released a joint statement to ''[[People (magazine)|People]]'', saying that they "have decided to take time off as a couple." Later that year they announced that they were "no longer intimate and separating was the best thing to do at this time".<ref>{{cite web|url=http://people.aol.com/people/articles/0,19736,1200409,00.html|title=Matthew McConaughey & Penelope Cruz Are 'Separating' - AOL||accessdate=2007-01-25}}</ref>

Apart from being a close personal friend of the actress, [[Salma Hayek]], Cruz is also a good friend of [[Colombian]] singer [[Shakira]].

In April 2007 Cruz, who was single at the time, stated that she would like to have children one day and she feels the need to adopt. "Of course I want to have kids," Cruz, 34, tells the Spanish edition of ''Marie Claire'' in its April issue. "I want to have my own kids, but also adopt. For a while I've had the feeling that my life won't be complete if I don't adopt".<ref>[http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20034917,00.html Penelope Cruz says she wants to adopt]</ref>.

Cruz is currently involved in a relationship with Oscar winning actor [[Javier Bardem]].{{fact|July 2008}}

===Controversy===
Cruz has featured strongly in [[L'Oreal]] advertising campaigns, most noticeably the Telescopic mascara campaign. In 2007, the British [[Advertising Standards Authority]] ruled that L'Oreal has mislead customers as to the bulk and volume the mascara added to a lash after it was revealed Cruz wore artificial lashes in the advertisements <ref>http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSL2583702620070725</ref>. The claim that the mascara could make lashes '60% longer' was dismissed as false and misleading. However it must be noted that Cruz would have been fully aware upon seeing the final version of the ad that she was in fact wearing false implants and the claims in the advertisement could not possibly be true.

==Filmography==
{| class="wikitable"
|- bgcolor="#CCCCCC"
! Year !! Film !! Role !! Notes
|-
| rowspan="2"| [[1992 in film|1992]] || ''[[Jamón, jamón]]'' || Silvia ||
|-
| ''[[Belle Époque (film)|Belle Époque]]'' || Luz ||
|-
| rowspan="3"|[[1997 in film|1997]] || ''[[Love Can Seriously Damage Your Health]]'' (''El amor perjudica seriamente la salud'') || Younger Diana / Diana's daughter ||
|-
| ''[[Open Your Eyes (film)|Open Your Eyes]]'' (''Abre los ojos'') || Sofía ||
|-
| ''[[Live Flesh (film)|Live Flesh]]'' (''Carne trémula'') || Isabel Plaza Caballero ||
|-
| rowspan="2"|[[1998 in film|1998]] || ''[[La niña de tus ojos|The Girl of Your Dreams]]'' (''La niña de tus ojos'') || Macarena ||Goya Award winner
|-
| ''[[Don Juan (1998 film)|Don Juan]]'' || Mathurine ||
|-
| [[1999 in film|1999]] || ''[[All About My Mother]]'' (''Todo sobre mi madre'') || Sister María Rosa Sanz ||
|-
| rowspan="2"|[[2000 in film|2000]] || ''[[All the Pretty Horses (film)|All the Pretty Horses]]'' || Luisa ||
|-
| ''[[Woman on Top]]'' || Isabella Oliveira ||
|-
| rowspan="4"|[[2001 in film|2001]] || ''[[Blow (film)|Blow]]'' || Mirtha Jung ||
|-
| ''[[Bendito infierno|Don't Tempt Me]]'' (''Bendito infierno'') || Carmen Ramos ||
|-
| ''[[Captain Corelli's Mandolin (film)|Captain Corelli's Mandolin]]'' || Pelagia ||
|-
| ''[[Vanilla Sky]]'' || Sofia Serrano ||
|-
| rowspan="2"|[[2003 in film|2003]] || ''[[Fanfan la tulipe (2003 film)|Fanfan la tulipe]]'' || Adeline La Franchise ||
|-
| ''[[Gothika]]'' || Chloe Sava ||
|-
| rowspan="3"|[[2004 in film|2004]] || ''[[Head in the Clouds]]'' || Mia ||
|-
| ''[[Don't Move (film)|Don't Move]]'' (''Non ti muovere'') || Italia ||
|-
| ''[[Noel (film)|Noel]]'' || Nina Vasquez ||
|-
| [[2005 in film|2005]] || ''[[Sahara (2005 film)|Sahara]]'' || Eva Rojas ||
|-
| rowspan="3"|[[2006 in film|2006]] || ''[[Chromophobia (film)|Chromophobia]]'' || Gloria ||
|-
| ''[[Bandidas]]'' || María Álvarez ||
|-
| ''[[Volver]]'' || Raimunda || Academy Award-Nomination
|-
| rowspan="2"|[[2007 in film|2007]] || ''[[The Good Night]]'' || Anna ||
|-
| ''[[Manolete (film)|Manolete]]'' || Antoñita "Lupe" Sino ||
|-
| rowspan="2"|[[2008 in film|2008]] || ''[[Elegy (film)|Elegy]]'' || Consuela Castillo || ''awaiting release''
|-
| ''[[Vicky Cristina Barcelona]]'' || María Elena || ''awaiting release''
|-
|rowspan=3| [[2009 in film|2009]] || ''[[G-Force (film)|G-Force]]'' || Juarez (voice) || ''post-production''
|-
| ''[[Nine (musical)#Film|Nine]]'' || Carla || ''pre-production''
|-
| ''[[Broken Hugs]]'' (''Los abrazos rotos'') || Magdalena || ''in production. Will be her fourth film with director [[Almodóvar]]''
|-
|}

==Awards and nominations==
'''Academy Awards'''
*2007 Nominated [[Academy Award]] Best Performance by an Actress in a Leading Role for: ''[[Volver]]'' (2006)

'''ALMA Awards'''
*1999 Nominated [[ALMA Award]] Outstanding Actress in a Feature Film for: ''[[The Hi-Lo Country]]'' (1998)
*2002 Nominated ALMA Award Outstanding Actress in a Motion Picture for: ''[[Vanilla Sky]]'' (2001)

'''BAFTA Awards'''
*2007 Nominated [[BAFTA Award]] Best Actress in a Leading Role for: ''[[Volver]]'' (2006)

'''Blockbuster Entertainment Awards'''
*2001 Nominated [[Blockbuster Entertainment Award]] Favorite Actress - Drama/Romance for: ''[[All the Pretty Horses]]'' (2000)

'''Cannes Film Festival'''
- To the female ensemble cast
*2006 Won [[Cannes Film Festival|Cannes Award]] Best Actress for: ''Volver'' (2006) award shared with Carmen Maura; Lola Dueñas; Blanca Portillo; Yohana Cobo; Chus Lampreave

'''David di Donatello Awards'''
*2004 Won [[David di Donatello|David]] Best Actress (Migliore Attrice Protagonista) for: ''[[Non ti muovere]]'' (2004)

'''European Film Awards'''
*1999 Nominated [[European Film Award]] Best Actress for: ''[[La Niña de tus ojos]]'' (1998)
*2001 Nominated Audience Award Best Actress for: ''[[Captain Corelli's Mandolin (film)|Captain Corelli's Mandolin]]'' (2001)
*2003 Nominated Audience Award Best Actress for: ''Fanfan la tulipe'' (2003)
*2004 Nominated European Film Award Best Actress for: ''Non ti muovere'' (2004)
*2004 Won Audience Award Best Actress for: ''Non ti muovere'' (2004)
*2006 Won European Film Award Best Actress for: ''Volver'' (2006)

'''Fotogramas de Plata'''
*1999 Won Fotogramas de Plata Best Movie Actress (Mejor Actriz de Cine) for: ''La Niña de tus ojos'' (1998)
*2007 Won Fotogramas de Plata Best Movie Actress (Mejor Actriz de Cine) for: ''Volver'' (2006)

'''Golden Globe Awards'''
*2007 Nominated [[Golden Globe]] Best Actress in a Dramatic Role for: ''Volver'' (2006)

'''Goya Awards'''
*1993 Nominated [[Goya Awards|Goya]] Best Lead Actress (Mejor Actriz Principal) for: ''[[Jamón, jamón]]'' (1992)
*1999 Won Goya Best Lead Actress (Mejor Actriz Principal) for: ''La Niña de tus ojos'' (1998)
*2005 Nominated Goya Best Lead Actress (Mejor Actriz Principal) for: ''Non ti muovere'' (2004)
*2007 Won Goya Best Lead Actress (Mejor Actriz Principal) for: ''Volver'' (2006)

'''[[Imagen Foundation Awards]]'''
*2003 Creative Achievement Award

'''MTV Movie Awards'''
*2002 Nominated [[MTV Movie Award]] Breakthrough Female Performance for: ''[[Blow (film)|Blow]]'' (2001)

'''NAACP Image Awards'''
*2007 Nominated [[NAACP Image Award]] Outstanding Actress in a Motion Picture for: ''[[Volver]]'' (2006)

'''Ondas Awards'''
*1993 Won [[Ondas Awards|Ondas]] Film Award Best Acting (Mejor Interpretación) tied with [[Javier Bardem]] (no award category given officially).

'''Peñíscola Comedy Film Festival'''
*1995 Won Best Actress for: ''Todo es mentira'' (1994)

'''Razzie Awards'''
*2002 Nominated [[Razzie Award]] Worst Actress for: ''Blow'' (2001), ''Captain Corelli's Mandolin'' (2001) and ''Vanilla Sky'' (2001).

'''Spanish Actors Union'''
*1993 Nominated Newcomer Award for: ''Jamón, jamón'' (1992)
*1993 Won Award of the Spanish Actors Union Film: Supporting Performance (Secundario Cine) for: ''[[Belle Époque]]'' (1992)
*1998 Nominated Award of the Spanish Actors Union Film: Performance in a Minor Role (Reparto Cine) for: ''[[Carne trémula]]'' (1997)
*1999 Won Award of the Spanish Actors Union Film: Lead Performance (Protagonista Cine) for: ''La Niña de tus ojos'' (1998)
*2007 Won Award of the Spanish Actors Union Film: Lead Performance (Protagonista Cine) for: ''Volver'' (2007)

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*{{imdb name|id=0004851|name=Penélope Cruz}}
*[http://moviegrande.com/volver/interview2.htm Penélope Cruz Cannes Interview]
* Penelope Cruz at the [http://www.maxim.com/Girls/82Pen233lopeCruz/slideshow/24900/2463.aspx Maxim Hot 100]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Cruz, Penélope}}
[[Category:1974 births]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:People from Madrid]]
[[Category:Spanish film actors]]
[[Category:Spanish television actors]]
[[Category:Spanish television presenters]]
[[Category:Spanish vegetarians]]

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Phan Đình Phùng

2008-07-04T22:36:14Z

Rungbachduong: /* Downfall */ + image of Hoang Cao Khai

{{Infobox revolution biography
|name=Phan Đình Phùng
|lived=1847 – [[January 21]] [[1896]]
|image=[[Image:Phan Dinh Phung.jpg]]
|caption=Phan Đình Phùng, 19th century Vietnamese scholar and anti-colonial revolutionary
|alternate name=Phan Dinh Phung
|dateofbirth= 1847
|placeofbirth=[[Dong Thai]], [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]], [[Vietnam]]
|dateofdeath=[[January 21]], [[1896]]
|placeofdeath=[[Nghe An Province]], [[Vietnam]]
|movement=[[Can Vuong]]
|organizations=[[Nguyen Dynasty]]
|religion=[[Confucianism]]
|prizes=1st place, Metropolitan imperial examinations, 1877
|footnotes=Imperial Censor of Emperor [[Tu Duc]]
}}

'''Phan Đình Phùng''' (1847 – [[January 21]], [[1896]]) was a [[Vietnamese people|Vietnamese]] revolutionary who led rebel armies against [[French Colonial Empire|French colonial forces]] in [[Vietnam]]. He was the most prominent of the [[Confucian]] court scholars involved in anti-French military campaigns in the 19th century and was cited after his death by 20th century nationalists as a [[national hero]]. He was renowned for his uncompromising will and principles—on one occasion, he refused to surrender even after the French had desecrated his ancestral tombs and had arrested and threatened to kill his family.

Born into a family of [[mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarins]] from [[Ha Tinh Province]], Phan continued his ancestors' traditions by placing first in the metropolitan imperial examinations in 1877. Phan quickly rose through the ranks under Emperor [[Tu Duc]] of the [[Nguyen Dynasty]], gaining a reputation for his integrity and uncompromising stance against corruption. Phan was appointed as the Imperial Censor, a position that allowed him to criticise his fellow mandarins and even the emperor. As the head of the censorate, Phan's investigations led to the removal of many incompetent or corrupt mandarins.

Upon Tu Duc's death, Phan almost lost his life during a power struggle in the imperial court. The regent [[Ton That Thuyet]] disregarded Tu Duc's will of succession, and three emperors were deposed and killed in just over a year. Phan protested against Thuyet's activities and was stripped of his honours and was briefly jailed before being exiled to his home province. At the time, [[France]] had just conquered Vietnam and made it a part of [[French Indochina]]. Along with Thuyet, Phan organised rebel armies as part of the [[Can Vuong]] movement, which sought to expel the French and install the boy Emperor [[Ham Nghi]] at the head of an independent Vietnam. This campaign continued for three years until 1888, when the French captured Ham Nghi and exiled him to Algeria.

Phan and his military assistant [[Cao Thang]] continued their guerrilla campaign, building a network of spies, bases and small weapons factories. However, Cao Thang was killed in a campaign in late 1893. The decade-long campaign eventually wore Phan down, and he died from [[dysentery]] as the French surrounded his forces.

== Court official ==
[[Image:Phan Dinh Phung manuscript.jpg|right|thumb|Manuscript signed by Phan Dinh Phung]]
Phan was born in the village of [[Dong Thai]], reputed for producing a number high-ranking [[mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarins]], in the northern central coast province of [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]]. Dong Thai had produced senior imperial officials from the time of the [[Le Dynasty]]. The Phan family had twelve consecutive generations of successful mandarinate graduates before Phan.<ref name="m61"/> Of Phan's brothers, the three that lived to adulthood all passed the imperial examinations and became mandarins.<Ref name="m61"/><Ref>Hodgkin, p. 117.</ref> Phan himself gave early indications of distaste towards the classical curriculum required of an aspiring mandarin. He nevertheless persevered with his studies, passing the regional exams in 1876 and then topping the metropolitan exams in the following year.<ref name="m61">Marr, p. 61.</ref> In his exam response, Phan cited [[Japan]] as an example of how an Asian country could make rapid military progress given sufficient willpower.<Ref>Hodgkin, p. 116.</ref>

Phan was never known for his scholarly abilities; it was his reputation of principled integrity that led to his quick rise through the ranks under the reign of Emperor [[Tu Duc]].<ref name="m61"/> His was first appointed as a district mandarin in [[Ninh Binh Province]], where he punished a Vietnamese [[Catholic]] priest, who, with the tacit support of French [[missionaries]], had harassed local non-Catholics. Amid the diplomatic controversy that followed, he avoided blaming the unpopular alliance between Vietnamese Catholics and the French on the nature of Catholicism itself, stating that the partnership had arisen out of the military and political vulnerabilities of Vietnam's imperial government.<Ref name="m61"/> Despite this, the Huế court eventually removed Phan from this post.<Ref name="m62"/>

Phan was transferred to the court as a member of the censorate, a watchdog body that monitored the work of the mandarinate. He earned the ire of many of his colleagues, but the trust of the emperor by revealing that the vast majority of the court mandarins were making a mockery of a royal [[edict]] to engage in regular [[rifle]] practice.<ref name="m62"/> Tu Duc later dispatched Phan on an inspection trip to northern Vietnam. His report led to the ousting of many officials who were deemed to be corrupt or incompetent, including the [[viceroy]] of the northern region.<ref name="m62">Marr, p. 62.</ref> He rose to become the Ngu Su, meaning Imperial Censor. The position allowed him to criticise other high officials and even the emperor for misconduct.<Ref name="k"/> Phan openly criticised [[Ton That Thuyet]], the foremost mandarin of the court, believing him to be rash and dishonest.<ref name="k">Karnow, p. 121.</ref> Aside from his work in rooting out corruption, Phan also compiled a historical geography of Vietnam, which was penned in 1883.<Ref name="g24">Goscha, p. 24.</ref>

Despite his prominent position in the [[Nguyen Dynasty]], little is known about Phan's personal stance on Vietnamese relations with France, which was in the process of colonising Vietnam.<ref name="m62"/> France had first invaded in 1858,<Ref name="mc43">McLeod, p. 43.</ref> beginning the [[colonization of Cochinchina|colonisation of southern Vietnam]].<Ref>McLeod, pp. 44–45.</ref> Three provinces were ceded under the 1862 [[Treaty of Saigon]],<ref>McLeod, p. 54.</ref><ReF>Karnow, p. 119.</ref> and a further three in 1867 to form the colony of [[Cochinchina]].<ref>McLeod, p. 55.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 90.</ref> During the period, there was debate in the Huế court on the best strategy to regain the territory. One group advocated regaining the land by military means, while another group advocated the use of diplomacy and the offering of financial and religious concessions.<Ref>McLeod, pp. 51–53.</ref> By the time of [[Tu Duc]]'s death in 1883, the whole of Vietnam was colonised, henceforth incorporated with [[Laos]] and [[Cambodia]] into [[French Indochina]].<ref>Marr, p. 55.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 98.</ref>

Upon his death in 1883, the childless Tu Duc had named his nephew [[Kien Phuc]] as his successor,<Ref name="m62"/> rather than [[Duc Duc]], the most senior heir. Tu Duc had written in his will that Duc Duc was depraved and unworthy of ruling the country.<Ref name="c15">Chapuis, p. 15.</ref> However, led by Thuyet, the regents enthroned Duc Duc under the pressure of the ladies of the court.<ref name="m62"/><ref name="c15"/> Phan protested against the violation of Tu Duc's will of succession and refused to sanction anyone other than Kien Phuc. Lucky to escape a death penalty, Phan was stripped of his positions.<ref name="m62"/> Later, Duc Duc was deposed and executed by Thuyet on the grounds of ignoring court etiquette, ignoring the mourning rites for Tu Duc and having affairs with the late emperor's consorts.<Ref name="c15"/> Phan again protested against the regents' actions and was briefly imprisoned by Thuyet, before being exiled to his home province.<ref name="m62"/>

== Revolutionary career ==
===Can Vuong ===

Phan rallied to the cause of the boy Emperor [[Ham Nghi]] after an abortive royal uprising at [[Huế]] in 1885.<Ref name="m62"/> Ham Nghi was the fourth monarch in little over a year.<ref>Chapuis, 15–18.</ref> Thuyet and fellow regent [[Nguyen Van Tuong]] had enthroned [[Hiep Hoa]] after disposing of Duc Duc. However, the new emperor was wary of the regents' behaviour and attempted to avoid their influence, leading Thuyet to organise execution.<ref>Chapuis, p. 16.</ref> The teenaged [[Kien Phuc]] ascended the throne, but was poisoned to death by his adoptive mother [[Hoc Phi]]—one of Tu Duc's wives—whom he caught with Tuong.<ref name="c17">Chapuis, p. 17.</ref> Kien Phuc was replaced by his 14-year-old brother Ham Nghi. In the meantime, the French concluded that the regents had to be disposed of.<Ref name="c17"/>

Thuyet had already decided to place Ham Nghi at the head of the ''Phong Trào Cần Vuơng'' (''Loyalty to the Emperor Movement''), which sought to end French rule with a royalist rebellion. Phan helped the cause by setting up bases in [[Ha Tinh]] and creating his own guerrilla army.<ref name="m62"/> Thuyet had hoped to secure support from the [[Qing Dynasty]] of [[China]],<Ref name="c21">Chapuis, p. 21.</ref> but Phan thought that Vietnam's best chance of effective support came from [[Siam]].<ref name="g24"/> [[Gia Long]], the founder of the Nguyen Dynasty and great-grandfather of Tu Duc, had married his sister off to the King of Siam. He had also used Siam as a base-in-exile during his quest for the throne in the 1780s.<ref name="g24"/> However, direct appeals to the Siamese government for aid only yielded a few pack trains of firearms and ammunition.<ref name="m62"/> In preparation for the revolt, Thuyet had been preparing an armed base at [[Tan So]] for over a year.<ref name="c17"/><Ref name="c20">Chapuis, p. 20.</ref>

In any case, the Can Vuong revolt started on [[July 5]], [[1885]] when Thuyet attempted a surprise attack against the colonial forces after a diplomatic confrontation with the French.<ref>Marr, p. 47.</ref><ref name="k99">Karnow, p. 99.</ref><Ref name="c19">Chappuis, p. 19.</ref> The attack failed and Thuyet took Ham Nghi on a northbound escape to the Tan So mountain base near the border with Laos. The campaign was launched when the regent had the emperor issue his Can Vuong edict.<Ref name="c20"/><ref>Marr, p. 43.</ref>

Phan initially rallied support from his native village and set up his headquarters on Mount [[Vu Quang]]. The headquarters overlooked the coastal French fortress at [[Ha Tinh]]. Phan's organisation became a model for future insurgents. For flexibility, he divided his operational zone into twelve districts.<ref name="k"/> His forces upheld military discipline and wore uniforms.<Ref name="c93">Chapuis, p. 93.</ref> Phan initially used the local scholar-gentry as his military commanders. Their first notable attack targeted two nearby Catholic villages that collaborated with the French colonials. French troops arrived a few hours later, quickly overwhelming the rebels and forcing them to retreat to their home village, where the retribution was heavy.<ref name="m62"/> Phan managed to escape but his elder brother was captured by the same former viceroy of northern Vietnam who had been removed from office by Emperor Tu Duc as a result of Phan's critical report. The disgraced official was now a French collaborator, serving as the governor of [[Nghe An]] province.<ref name="m62"/>

The strategy of attempting to pressure Phan into capitulating was a classical strategy of coercion. It used an old friend and fellow villager to make an emotional and deeply Confucian appeal for Phan to surrender in order to save his brother, his ancestral tombs and his entire village. Phan was reported to have replied:<Ref name="m63"/>

{{quote|From the time I joined with you in the Can Vuong movement, I determined to forget the question of family and village. Now I have but one tomb, a very large one, that must be defended: the land of Vietnam. I have only one brother, very important, that is in danger: more than twenty million countrymen. If I worry about my own tombs, who will worry about defending the tombs of the rest of the country? If I save my own brother, who will save all the other brothers of the country? There is only one way for me to die now.<ref name="m63">Marr, p. 63.</ref>}}

He was later reported to have simply retorted, "If anyone carves up my brother, remember to send me some of the soup".<Ref name="m63"/> However, Phan held no illusions about the prospect of successfully driving out the French, stating "It is our destiny. We accept it."<ref name="c93"/>

This incident and Phan's response are often cited as one of the reasons why Phan was so admired by the populace and among future generations of Vietnamese anti-colonialists and nationalists for adhering to the highest personal standards of patriotism. The incident was interpreted as his identification with a countrywide cause, far removed from the questions of family and region.<ref name="m63"/>

Phan's men were well-trained and disciplined, and the military inspiration behind his rebels was derived from [[Cao Thang]], a bandit leader who was protected from royal forces by Phan's brother a decade earlier.<ref name="m61"/> They operated in the provinces of [[Thanh Hoa Province|Thanh Hoa]] in the north, [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]], [[Nghe An Province|Nghe An]] in the centre and [[Quang Binh Province|Quang Binh]] in the south, but were strongest in the two central provinces.<ref name="k"/> In 1887, Phan concluded that his tactics were misguided and ordered Cao Thang and his other subordinates to cease open combat and resort to guerrilla tactics. They built up a network of [[base camp]]s, food caches, intelligence agents and peasant supply contacts. Phan traveled to the north in the hope of organising strategy and tactics with other leaders. In the meantime, Cao Thang led a force of around a 1,000 men with some 500 firearms between them.<ref name="c93"/><Ref name="m63"/> Cao Thang was able to produce around 300 rifles by disassembling and copying 1874-model French weapons that had been captured.<Ref name="m63"/><Ref name="g25">Goscha, p. 25.</ref> Vietnamese artisans were captured for the purpose of creating such replica guns. According to French officers who later captured some of the Vietnamese copies, the weapons were proficiently reproduced. The only details in which they were regarded as being defective were in the tempering of the springs, which were improvised with [[umbrella]] spokes, and the lack of [[rifling]] in the barrels, which curtailed range and accuracy.<ref name="m64">Marr, p. 64.</ref>

Nevertheless, Phan's rebels were equipped with weapons that were far inferior to their adversaries, and their inland positions were within firing range of the [[French Navy]].<Ref name="g24"/> The Vietnamese could not rely on China to give them material support, and other European powers such as [[Portugal]], [[The Netherlands]] and the [[United Kingdom]] were unwilling to sell weapons for various reasons. Thus, Phan had to explore overland routes to procure weapons from Siamese sources—using seafaring transport was not possible due to the presence of the French Navy.<Ref name="g24"/> He instructed his followers to create a secret route from Ha Tinh through Laos into north-eastern Siam. One such route from Mount Vu Quang was believed to have been created in around 1888.<ref name="g25"/> It is unclear if Phan himself went to Thailand,<ref name="g25"/> but a young female supporter by the name of Co Tam was his designated arms buyer in [[Tha Uthen]], which boasted a substantial expatriate Vietnamese community.<ref name="g25"/> In 1890, around 1,000 Austrian repeating-rifles were transported by the Siamese Army from Bangkok to [[Luang Prabang]] in Laos. However, it is unclear whether the weapons found their way into Vietnamese hands or whether they were related to Co Tam's activities.<ref name="g25"/>

=== After Can Vuong ===

In 1888, Ham Nghi was betrayed by his [[Muong]] bodyguard Truong Quang Ngoc,<ref name="c92">Chapuis, p. 62.</ref> and was captured by the French, who deported him to [[Algeria]].<ref name="c21"/><Ref>Marr, p. 57.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 100.</ref> Phan and Cao Thang fought on in the mountainous areas of Ha Tinh, Nghe An and Thanh Hoa. Another 15 bases were built along the mountain to complement the headquarters at Vu Quang. Each base had a subordinate commander and between 100 and 500 men. The operations were funded by local villagers, who were levied with a land tax in silver and rice.<ref name="k"/><Ref name="g25"/><ref name="m64"/> Local bases were supported by nearby villages and excess funds were sent to Vu Quang. [[Cinnamon]] bark was foraged and sold to raise funds, while lowland peasants donated spare metals for the production of weapons.<Ref name="g25"/><Ref name="m64"/>

When Phan returned from the north in 1889, his first order was for his rebels to track down Ham Nghi's betrayer Ngoc.<Ref name="m64"/> Phan personally executed Ngoc in [[Tuyen Hoa]].<ref name="c93"/> He then commenced a series of small-unit attacks on French installations through the summer of 1890, but these proved indecisive. The French relied mostly on district and provincial colonial units to man their perpetually increasing line of forts, which were usually commanded by a French lieutenant.<ref name="m64"/> In late 1890, a French effort to move into the low-lying villages and isolate the populace from the mountainous rebel bases failed. In the spring of 1892, a major French sweep of Ha Tinh failed, and in August, Cao Thang seized the initiative with a bold counterattack on the provincial capital. The rebels broke into the jail and freed their compatriots, killing a large number of the Vietnamese soldiers who defended the penitentiary as members of the French colonial forces. This caused the French to intensify their efforts against Phan, and a counteroffensive was conducted throughout the remainder of 1892, forcing the rebels to retreat back into the mountains. Two of their bases fell and steady French pressure began to break their covert resistance links with lowland villages. This compounded the problems of securing food, supplies, intelligence data and recruits. A ring of French forts continued to be erected, increasingly pinning down the rebels.<ref name="m65"/> The only notable positive for Phan's forces during this period was the acquisition of gunpowder supplies from Siam.<Ref name="g25"/> This enabled them to mix foreign and local powder on a 50:50 proportion, rather than their previous weaker mixture of 20:80 proportion.<Ref>Marr, pp. 64–65.</ref>

Late in the year, the burden on Phan increased after the loss of two Can Vuong allies. In September, [[Tong Duy Tan]]—who led the royalists in Thanh Hoa— was captured and publicly executed.<ref name="c93"/><ref>Marr, p. 60–61.</ref> Nguyen Thien Thuat, who had been active in the northern provinces of [[Hung Yen]] and [[Hai Duong]], fled to [[Guangxi]] in [[China]]. The supporters of Tan and Tuat moved south and integrated into Phan's force.<ref name="c93"/>

In mid-1893, Cao Thang proposed a full-scale attack on the provincial seat of [[Nghe An]] and the surrounding posts. The plan proposed to Phan included diversions to the south and the training of almost 2000 men in conventional military tactics. Skeptical of its viability , Phan reluctantly approved the plan.<ref name="m65"/> The troops were eager, but after overpowering several small posts ''en route'', the main force was pinned down while attacking the French fort of No on [[September 9]], [[1893]]. Along with his brother, Cao Thang was mortally wounded while leading a risky frontal attack with 150 men, and the forces retreated in disarray. Phan regarded the loss of Cao Thang as a significant one, admitting as much in his eulogy and funeral oration for Cao Thang.<ref name="m65">Marr, p. 65.</ref> According to the historian David Marr, there was evidence that Phan clearly realised the advantages and limitations of prolonged resistance.<ref name="m66"/> Although Phan had previously stated that he was not expecting ultimate success,<ref name="c93"/> the guerrilla leader thought it important to keep pressuring the French and to demonstrate to the Vietnamese people that there was an alternative to what he felt was a defeatist attitude from the Huế court.<Ref name="m66">Marr, p. 66.</ref>

=== Downfall ===
[[Image:Hue linh luoc su Hoang Cao Khai.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Hoang Cao Khai]]
[[Hoang Cao Khai]], the French-installed viceroy of [[Tonkin]], perceived Phan's intent to a degree that his French masters did not.<Ref name="m66"/> Khai was born into a scholar-gentry family from the same village as Phan.<Ref name="h113">Hodgkin, p. 113.</ref> Khai became the main backer of a determined effort to decisively crush Phan's rebels, and he used every means available: political, psychological and economic.<ref name="m66"/> By late 1894, suspected rebel sympathisers in the lowlands and relatives of insurgents were intimidated and several more insurgent commanders had been killed. Communications were disrupted, and the rebel hideouts became increasingly insecure. In an attempt to force Phan to surrender, the French arrested his family and desecrated the tombs of his ancestors, putting the remains put on display in Ha Tinh.<Ref name="k"/><ref name="m66"/>

Khai had a message delivered to Phan via a relative. Phan sent a written reply, allowing the exchange between the opposing viewpoints to be studied. Khai's letter recalled the common origins of the pair and promised Phan that Khai would lobby Governor-General Jean-Marie Antoine de Lannessan and other French officials for an amnesty in return for Phan's surrender.<ref name="l123">Lam, p. 123.</ref> Khai credited Phan with righteousness, loyalty and dedication towards the monarchy.<ref name="m66"/>

{{quote|The situation has changed and even those without intelligence or education have concluded that nothing remains to be saved. How is it that you, a man of vast understanding, do not realise this? . .You are determined to do whatever you deem to be righteous. . . All that matters indeed is giving of one's life to one's country. No one therefore can deter you from your goal.<ref name="m66"/><ref name="hck">Lam, pp. 122–124.</ref>
 
 
I have always been taught that superior men should consider the care of the people as fundamental; who has ever heard of men who were loyal to their King but forgot the people's aspirations?. . .As of now, hundreds of families are subject to grief; how do you have the heart to fight on? I venture to predict that, should you pursue your struggle, not only will the population of our village be destroyed but our entire country will be transformed into a sea of blood and a mountain of bones.<ref name="hck"/><ref name="m67">Marr, p. 67.</ref> }}

According to Marr, "Phan Dinh Phan's reply was a classic in savage understatement, utilizing standard formalism in the interest of propaganda, with deft denigration of his opponent".<ref name="m67"/> Phan appealed to Vietnamese nationalist sentiment, recalling his country's stubborn resistance to Chinese aggression. He cited defensive wars against the [[Han Dynasty|Han]], [[Tang Dynasty|Tang]], [[Sung Dynasty|Sung]], [[Yuan Dynasty|Yuan]] and [[Ming Dynasty|Ming dynasties]], asking why a country "a thousand times more powerful" could not annex Vietnam.<ref name="l125">Lam, p. 125.</ref> He concluded that it was "because the destiny of our country has been willed by Heaven itself".<ref name="m67"/><ref name="l125"/>

Phan placed the responsibility for the suffering of the people at the feet of the French who "acted like a storm".<Ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp">Lam, p. 126–127.</ref> After analysing his own actions, Phan concluded with a thinly-veiled attack on Khai and his fellow collaborators.<Ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp"/>

{{quote|If our region has suffered to such an extent, it was not only from the misfortunes of war. You must realise that wherever the French go, there flock around them groups of petty men who offer plans and tricks to gain the enemy's confidence. These persons create every kind of enmity; they incriminate innocent persons, blaming one one day, punishing another the next. They use every expedient to squeeze the people out of their possessions. That is how hundred of misdeeds, thousands of offenses have been perpetrated.<ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp"/>}}

Khai's appeal was rebutted with an appeal to history, nationalist sentiment and a demand that the blame for death and destruction lay with the colonials and their Vietnamese assistants. Phan raised the stakes above family and village to the entire nation and its populace.<Ref name="m68">Marr, p. 68.</ref>

With Phan's rebuke in his hands, Khai translated both documents into French and presented them to de Lanessan, proposing that it was time for the final "destruction of this scholar gentry rebellion".<ref name="m68"/> In July 1895, French area commanders called in 3,000 troops to tighten the cordon around the three remaining rebel bases.<ref name="c93"/> The insurgents were able to execute ambushes at night, but Phan contracted dysentery and had to carried whenever his unit moved. A collaborator mandarin named [[Nguyen Than]], who had previous experience in pacification in [[Quang Ngai]] and [[Quang Nam]], was drafted in to isolate the villagers from the rebels. Cut off from their supplies, the insurgents were left to survive by eating roots and occasional handfuls of dried corn. Their shoes were worn through and most were without blankets.<Ref name="h113"/><ref name="m68"/> Phan died of dysentery on [[January 21]], [[1896]] and his captured followers were executed. A report submitted by the de Lanessan to the Minister of Colonies in [[Paris]] stated that "the soul of resistance to the protectorate was gone".<ref name="m68"/>

== Legacy ==

Phan's remains were disturbed after his death. [[Ngo Dinh Kha]], a Catholic mandarin and father of [[Ngo Dinh Diem]]—the first President of [[South Vietnam]]—was a member of the French colonial administration. Kha had Phan's tomb exhumed and used the remains in gunpowder used for executing revolutionaries.<Ref>{{cite journal |author= Vu Ngu Chieu |year=1986 |month=February |title=The Other Side of the 1945 Vietnamese Revolution: The Empire of Viet-Nam |journal=[[Journal of Asian Studies]] |volume=45 |issue=2 |pages=p. 306 |accessdate= 2007-11-02}}</ref>

Phan is widely regarded by Vietnamese people as a revolutionary hero. [[Phan Boi Chau]], regarded as the leading Vietnamese anti-colonial figure of the early 20th century, strongly praised Phan in his writing, with particular emphasis on his defiance of Khai.<ref>Marr, p. 117.</ref> During Chau's career as a teacher, he particularly emphasised Phan's deeds to his students.<ref>Marr, p. 85.</ref> In the 1940s, the [[Vietminh]] named their self-produced style of grenades in honour of Phan.<ref>Karnow, p. 173.</ref> Both North and South Vietnam had prominent thoroughfares in their capital cities ([[Hanoi]] and [[Saigon]], respectively) named in Phan's honour.<ref>{{cite book| title=Vietnam Country Map |publisher=Periplus Travel Maps |year=2002–03 |isbn=0-7946-0070-0}}</ref>

==Notes ==
{{reflist|3}}
== References ==
*{{cite book|title= The last emperors of Vietnam: from Tu Duc to Bao Dai |first=Oscar |last=Chapuis |publisher=[[Greenwood Press]] | year=2000 |isbn=0-313-31170-6}}
*{{cite book|title= Thailand and the Southeast Asian Networks of the Vietnamese Revolution, 1885–1954 |first=Christopher E. |last=Goscha |publisher=[[Routledge]] | year=1999 |isbn=0-700-70622-4}}
*{{cite book| title=Vietnam:A history| first=Stanley |last=Karnow |authorlink=Stanley Karnow| year=1997 |publisher=[[Penguin Books]] | isbn=0-670-84218-4}}
*{{cite book |first=Mark W. |last=McLeod | title=The Vietnamese response to French intervention, 1862–1874 |publisher=[[Praeger Publishers]] | year=1991 |isbn=0-275-93652-0}}
*{{cite book|title=Vietnamese anticolonialism, 1885–1925| first= David G. |last=Marr |year=1970 |publisher=[[University of California]] |location=[[Berkeley, California|Berkeley]]| isbn=0-520-01813-3}}
*{{Cite book |author=Truong Buu Lam | title=Patterns of Vietnamese response to foreign intervention: 1858–1900 |year=1967 |publisher=[[Yale University|Southeast Asia Studies Yale University]] |series=Monograph Series No. 11}}

{{Vietnamese independence movement}}

{{Persondata
|NAME = Phan Đình Phùng
|ALTERNATIVE NAMES =
|SHORT DESCRIPTION = Vietnamese revolutionary
|DATE OF BIRTH = 1847
|PLACE OF BIRTH = Dong Thai, [[Ha Tinh Province]], [[Vietnam]]
|DATE OF DEATH = [[21 January]] [[1896]]
|PLACE OF DEATH = [[Nghe An Province]], [[Vietnam]]
}}

[[Category:1847 births]]
[[Category:1896 deaths]]
[[Category:French Indochina]]
[[Category:Vietnamese revolutionaries]]
[[Category:Ha Tinh Province]]
[[Category:Mandarins of the Nguyen Dynasty]]
[[Category:Vietnamese Confucianists]]

[[vi:Phan Đình Phùng]]

Talk:Phan Đình Phùng

2008-07-04T05:50:27Z

Rungbachduong: /* Name */

{{FAC}}
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{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Talk||{{error:not substituted|GANOH}}<div style="display:none;">}}

==Good article nomination on hold==
This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of November 8, 2007, compares against the [[Wikipedia:What is a good article?|six good article criteria]]:

:'''1. Well written?:''' [[Image:Symbol wait.svg|15px]] Reasonably well-written (I'll be doing a little copy-editing here and there), but some [[WP:MoS]] issues. Remember that according to MoS, cquotes should not be used for general block quoting, instead regular <nowiki><blockquote></nowiki> formatting is to be used. Also, block quotes are ''only'' for quotes of four+ lines or multiple paragraphs. Next, the article needs an appropriate infobox - probably best to use one from WikiProject Biography.
:'''2. Factually accurate?:''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Good basic citations to references. If you're eventually aiming for FA, I'd suggest finding more than two references, and making sure to cite all potentially controversial facts, such as claims of exact numerical/dollar figures.
:'''3. Broad in coverage?:''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Covers all major points concisely.
:'''4. Neutral point of view?:''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Gives fair representation to all major points of view.
:'''5. Article stability?''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Not the subject of edits wars, or of future events.
:'''6. Images?:''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Accounted for with proper tags where present.

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be [[Wikipedia:Good article nominations|reviewed again]]. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article '''''may be failed without further notice'''''. Thank you for your work so far.— [[User:VanTucky|'''VanTucky''']] [[User talk:VanTucky|Talk]] 19:35, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

===Notes===
''For readability, please place any comments or questions pertaining to the hold below rather than within the body of the review. Thank you''
#I have done the quote style changes and the infobox. Do you have any specifics about the prose or just the general parts?
#As regards to 2, my style is to get a book in front of me and then type up. I don't tend to write off my head and then search around for a book or a webpage. As such, my articles tend to follow the books relatively closely. In the cases where there is only one ref at the end of the para, it was because I got the whole para from the page in the book

Thanks, '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 02:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

:Good work on the MoS stuff. As to the general prose, I have read some repetitive stuff (French forces surrounded his forces etc.). I'll do some combing, but GA is not FA. As long as it is clear, neutral and cited, it meets the criteria. [[User:VanTucky|'''VanTucky''']] [[User talk:VanTucky|Talk]] 02:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'm done with my copyediting, so it would seem all the issues of the review have been dealt with. Thanks for your hard work everyone! [[User:VanTucky|'''VanTucky''']] [[User talk:VanTucky|Talk]] 01:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

==Impressions and suggestions==

Phùng seems like an interesting person, and I enjoyed learning about him; thanks for inviting me! :) Here are my initial impressions of the article as I read through it; I hope they're helpful in reaching FA. [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 09:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

* The lead and the article seem rather short for an FA; do they really cover all the scholarship on Phùng? [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 09:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

* Given that the lead is only two paragraphs long, the first paragraph seems to dwell too long on minor details? For example, I suspect that casual readers won't want to know who "placed first in the metropolitan imperial examinations in 1877". I'd advise filling in the lead with the stories and facts that made Phùng historic and memorable. For example, you might expand the first two sentences of the second paragraph; they seem like they're leaving out a lot and the story line isn't clear. [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 09:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

* This sentence seems hard to parse: "where he punished a Vietnamese Catholic priest on charges of harassing local non-Catholics (with tacit support from French missionaries)." Which missionaries, and were they supporting the priest (as I assume) or the punishment? [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 09:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

* Consistent use of Phùng, instead of Phung? [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 10:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

*I'm sorry to say this, but the article seems a long way from [[WP:FA|FA]]. I would rank it as a B-class article at present, because it uses mainly one source (Marr), has few references and effectively no illustrations. The writing is OK, in that the facts are given in logical order, but at least to me, it's not vivid and certainly not compelling; it lacks a strong story-line. The article would be helped by maps showing Phùng's movements, historical and geographical context, and stronger flow in the writing. Oh, and no typos, please. ;) [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 10:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

== Name ==
I removed notice for Vietnamese name because the fact that Vietnamese scholar (like Phan Dinh Phung) in old days should be called by his full name (Phan Dinh Phung), family name (Phan) or courtesy name (Chau Phong), not by his given name. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Phan Đình Phùng

2008-07-04T05:33:21Z

Rungbachduong: /* Impressions and suggestions */

{{FAC}}
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|action1result=listed
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{{#ifeq:{{NAMESPACE}}|Talk||{{error:not substituted|GANOH}}<div style="display:none;">}}

==Good article nomination on hold==
This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of November 8, 2007, compares against the [[Wikipedia:What is a good article?|six good article criteria]]:

:'''1. Well written?:''' [[Image:Symbol wait.svg|15px]] Reasonably well-written (I'll be doing a little copy-editing here and there), but some [[WP:MoS]] issues. Remember that according to MoS, cquotes should not be used for general block quoting, instead regular <nowiki><blockquote></nowiki> formatting is to be used. Also, block quotes are ''only'' for quotes of four+ lines or multiple paragraphs. Next, the article needs an appropriate infobox - probably best to use one from WikiProject Biography.
:'''2. Factually accurate?:''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Good basic citations to references. If you're eventually aiming for FA, I'd suggest finding more than two references, and making sure to cite all potentially controversial facts, such as claims of exact numerical/dollar figures.
:'''3. Broad in coverage?:''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Covers all major points concisely.
:'''4. Neutral point of view?:''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Gives fair representation to all major points of view.
:'''5. Article stability?''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Not the subject of edits wars, or of future events.
:'''6. Images?:''' [[Image:Symbol support vote.svg|15px]] Accounted for with proper tags where present.

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be [[Wikipedia:Good article nominations|reviewed again]]. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article '''''may be failed without further notice'''''. Thank you for your work so far.— [[User:VanTucky|'''VanTucky''']] [[User talk:VanTucky|Talk]] 19:35, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

===Notes===
''For readability, please place any comments or questions pertaining to the hold below rather than within the body of the review. Thank you''
#I have done the quote style changes and the infobox. Do you have any specifics about the prose or just the general parts?
#As regards to 2, my style is to get a book in front of me and then type up. I don't tend to write off my head and then search around for a book or a webpage. As such, my articles tend to follow the books relatively closely. In the cases where there is only one ref at the end of the para, it was because I got the whole para from the page in the book

Thanks, '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' (''[[User talk:Blnguyen|bananabucket]]'') 02:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

:Good work on the MoS stuff. As to the general prose, I have read some repetitive stuff (French forces surrounded his forces etc.). I'll do some combing, but GA is not FA. As long as it is clear, neutral and cited, it meets the criteria. [[User:VanTucky|'''VanTucky''']] [[User talk:VanTucky|Talk]] 02:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'm done with my copyediting, so it would seem all the issues of the review have been dealt with. Thanks for your hard work everyone! [[User:VanTucky|'''VanTucky''']] [[User talk:VanTucky|Talk]] 01:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

==Impressions and suggestions==

Phùng seems like an interesting person, and I enjoyed learning about him; thanks for inviting me! :) Here are my initial impressions of the article as I read through it; I hope they're helpful in reaching FA. [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 09:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

* The lead and the article seem rather short for an FA; do they really cover all the scholarship on Phùng? [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 09:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

* Given that the lead is only two paragraphs long, the first paragraph seems to dwell too long on minor details? For example, I suspect that casual readers won't want to know who "placed first in the metropolitan imperial examinations in 1877". I'd advise filling in the lead with the stories and facts that made Phùng historic and memorable. For example, you might expand the first two sentences of the second paragraph; they seem like they're leaving out a lot and the story line isn't clear. [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 09:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

* This sentence seems hard to parse: "where he punished a Vietnamese Catholic priest on charges of harassing local non-Catholics (with tacit support from French missionaries)." Which missionaries, and were they supporting the priest (as I assume) or the punishment? [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 09:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

* Consistent use of Phùng, instead of Phung? [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 10:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

*I'm sorry to say this, but the article seems a long way from [[WP:FA|FA]]. I would rank it as a B-class article at present, because it uses mainly one source (Marr), has few references and effectively no illustrations. The writing is OK, in that the facts are given in logical order, but at least to me, it's not vivid and certainly not compelling; it lacks a strong story-line. The article would be helped by maps showing Phùng's movements, historical and geographical context, and stronger flow in the writing. Oh, and no typos, please. ;) [[User:WillowW|Willow]] ([[User talk:WillowW|talk]]) 10:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

== Name ==
I removed notice for Vietnamese name because the fact that Vietnamese scholar (like Phan Dinh Phung) in old days should be called by his family name (Phan) or by his courtesy name (Chau Phong), not by his given name. [[User:Rungbachduong|RBD]] ([[User talk:Rungbachduong|talk]]) 05:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Phan Đình Phùng

2008-07-04T05:29:03Z

Rungbachduong: remove notice for Vietnamese name, see discussion

{{Infobox revolution biography
|name=Phan Đình Phùng
|lived=1847 – [[January 21]] [[1896]]
|image=[[Image:Phan Dinh Phung.jpg]]
|caption=Phan Đình Phùng, 19th century Vietnamese scholar and anti-colonial revolutionary
|alternate name=Phan Dinh Phung
|dateofbirth= 1847
|placeofbirth=[[Dong Thai]], [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]], [[Vietnam]]
|dateofdeath=[[January 21]], [[1896]]
|placeofdeath=[[Nghe An Province]], [[Vietnam]]
|movement=[[Can Vuong]]
|organizations=[[Nguyen Dynasty]]
|religion=[[Confucianism]]
|prizes=1st place, Metropolitan imperial examinations, 1877
|footnotes=Imperial Censor of Emperor [[Tu Duc]]
}}

'''Phan Đình Phùng''' (1847 – [[January 21]], [[1896]]) was a [[Vietnamese people|Vietnamese]] revolutionary who led rebel armies against [[French Colonial Empire|French colonial forces]] in [[Vietnam]]. He was the most prominent of the [[Confucian]] court scholars involved in anti-French military campaigns in the 19th century and was cited after his death by 20th century nationalists as a [[national hero]]. He was renowned for his uncompromising will and principles—on one occasion, he refused to surrender even after the French had desecrated his ancestral tombs and had arrested and threatened to kill his family.

Born into a family of [[mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarins]] from [[Ha Tinh Province]], Phung continued his ancestors' traditions by placing first in the metropolitan imperial examinations in 1877. Phung quickly rose through the ranks under Emperor [[Tu Duc]] of the [[Nguyen Dynasty]], gaining a reputation for his integrity and uncompromising stance against corruption. Phung was appointed as the Imperial Censor, a position that allowed him to criticise his fellow mandarins and even the emperor. As the head of the censorate, Phung's investigations led to the removal of many incompetent or corrupt mandarins.

Upon Tu Duc's death, Phung almost lost his life during a power struggle in the imperial court. The regent [[Ton That Thuyet]] disregarded Tu Duc's will of succession, and three emperors were deposed and killed in just over a year. Phung protested against Thuyet's activities and was stripped of his honours and was briefly jailed before being exiled to his home province. At the time, [[France]] had just conquered Vietnam and made it a part of [[French Indochina]]. Along with Thuyet, Phung organised rebel armies as part of the [[Can Vuong]] movement, which sought to expel the French and install the boy Emperor [[Ham Nghi]] at the head of an independent Vietnam. This campaign continued for three years until 1888, when the French captured Ham Nghi and exiled him to Algeria.

Phung and his military assistant [[Cao Thang]] continued their guerrilla campaign, building a network of spies, bases and small weapons factories. However, Cao Thang was killed in a campaign in late 1893. The decade-long campaign eventually wore Phung down, and he died from [[dysentery]] as the French surrounded his forces.

== Court official ==
[[Image:Phan Dinh Phung manuscript.jpg|right|thumb|Manuscript signed by Phan Dinh Phung]]
Phung was born in the village of [[Dong Thai]], reputed for producing a number high-ranking [[mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarins]], in the northern central coast province of [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]]. Dong Thai had produced senior imperial officials from the time of the [[Le Dynasty]]. The Phan family had twelve consecutive generations of successful mandarinate graduates before Phung.<ref name="m61"/> Of Phung's brothers, the three that lived to adulthood all passed the imperial examinations and became mandarins.<Ref name="m61"/><Ref>Hodgkin, p. 117.</ref> Phung himself gave early indications of distaste towards the classical curriculum required of an aspiring mandarin. He nevertheless persevered with his studies, passing the regional exams in 1876 and then topping the metropolitan exams in the following year.<ref name="m61">Marr, p. 61.</ref> In his exam response, Phung cited [[Japan]] as an example of how an Asian country could make rapid military progress given sufficient willpower.<Ref>Hodgkin, p. 116.</ref>

Phung was never known for his scholarly abilities; it was his reputation of principled integrity that led to his quick rise through the ranks under the reign of Emperor [[Tu Duc]].<ref name="m61"/> His was first appointed as a district mandarin in [[Ninh Binh Province]], where he punished a Vietnamese [[Catholic]] priest, who, with the tacit support of French [[missionaries]], had harassed local non-Catholics. Amid the diplomatic controversy that followed, he avoided blaming the unpopular alliance between Vietnamese Catholics and the French on the nature of Catholicism itself, stating that the partnership had arisen out of the military and political vulnerabilities of Vietnam's imperial government.<Ref name="m61"/> Despite this, the Huế court eventually removed Phung from this post.<Ref name="m62"/>

Phung was transferred to the court as a member of the censorate, a watchdog body that monitored the work of the mandarinate. He earned the ire of many of his colleagues, but the trust of the emperor by revealing that the vast majority of the court mandarins were making a mockery of a royal [[edict]] to engage in regular [[rifle]] practice.<ref name="m62"/> Tu Duc later dispatched Phung on an inspection trip to northern Vietnam. His report led to the ousting of many officials who were deemed to be corrupt or incompetent, including the [[viceroy]] of the northern region.<ref name="m62">Marr, p. 62.</ref> He rose to become the Ngu Su, meaning Imperial Censor. The position allowed him to criticise other high officials and even the emperor for misconduct.<Ref name="k"/> Phung openly criticised [[Ton That Thuyet]], the foremost mandarin of the court, believing him to be rash and dishonest.<ref name="k">Karnow, p. 121.</ref> Aside from his work in rooting out corruption, Phung also compiled a historical geography of Vietnam, which was penned in 1883.<Ref name="g24">Goscha, p. 24.</ref>

Despite his prominent position in the [[Nguyen Dynasty]], little is known about Phung's personal stance on Vietnamese relations with France, which was in the process of colonising Vietnam.<ref name="m62"/> France had first invaded in 1858,<Ref name="mc43">McLeod, p. 43.</ref> beginning the [[colonization of Cochinchina|colonisation of southern Vietnam]].<Ref>McLeod, pp. 44–45.</ref> Three provinces were ceded under the 1862 [[Treaty of Saigon]],<ref>McLeod, p. 54.</ref><ReF>Karnow, p. 119.</ref> and a further three in 1867 to form the colony of [[Cochinchina]].<ref>McLeod, p. 55.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 90.</ref> During the period, there was debate in the Huế court on the best strategy to regain the territory. One group advocated regaining the land by military means, while another group advocated the use of diplomacy and the offering of financial and religious concessions.<Ref>McLeod, pp. 51–53.</ref> By the time of [[Tu Duc]]'s death in 1883, the whole of Vietnam was colonised, henceforth incorporated with [[Laos]] and [[Cambodia]] into [[French Indochina]].<ref>Marr, p. 55.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 98.</ref>

Upon his death in 1883, the childless Tu Duc had named his nephew [[Kien Phuc]] as his successor,<Ref name="m62"/> rather than [[Duc Duc]], the most senior heir. Tu Duc had written in his will that Duc Duc was depraved and unworthy of ruling the country.<Ref name="c15">Chapuis, p. 15.</ref> However, led by Thuyet, the regents enthroned Duc Duc under the pressure of the ladies of the court.<ref name="m62"/><ref name="c15"/> Phung protested against the violation of Tu Duc's will of succession and refused to sanction anyone other than Kien Phuc. Lucky to escape a death penalty, Phung was stripped of his positions.<ref name="m62"/> Later, Duc Duc was deposed and executed by Thuyet on the grounds of ignoring court etiquette, ignoring the mourning rites for Tu Duc and having affairs with the late emperor's consorts.<Ref name="c15"/> Phung again protested against the regents' actions and was briefly imprisoned by Thuyet, before being exiled to his home province.<ref name="m62"/>

== Revolutionary career ==
===Can Vuong ===

Phung rallied to the cause of the boy Emperor [[Ham Nghi]] after an abortive royal uprising at [[Huế]] in 1885.<Ref name="m62"/> Ham Nghi was the fourth monarch in little over a year.<ref>Chapuis, 15–18.</ref> Thuyet and fellow regent [[Nguyen Van Tuong]] had enthroned [[Hiep Hoa]] after disposing of Duc Duc. However, the new emperor was wary of the regents' behaviour and attempted to avoid their influence, leading Thuyet to organise execution.<ref>Chapuis, p. 16.</ref> The teenaged [[Kien Phuc]] ascended the throne, but was poisoned to death by his adoptive mother [[Hoc Phi]]—one of Tu Duc's wives—whom he caught with Tuong.<ref name="c17">Chapuis, p. 17.</ref> Kien Phuc was replaced by his 14-year-old brother Ham Nghi. In the meantime, the French concluded that the regents had to be disposed of.<Ref name="c17"/>

Thuyet had already decided to place Ham Nghi at the head of the ''Phong Trào Cần Vuơng'' (''Loyalty to the Emperor Movement''), which sought to end French rule with a royalist rebellion. Phung helped the cause by setting up bases in [[Ha Tinh]] and creating his own guerrilla army.<ref name="m62"/> Thuyet had hoped to secure support from the [[Qing Dynasty]] of [[China]],<Ref name="c21">Chapuis, p. 21.</ref> but Phung thought that Vietnam's best chance of effective support came from [[Siam]].<ref name="g24"/> [[Gia Long]], the founder of the Nguyen Dynasty and great-grandfather of Tu Duc, had married his sister off to the King of Siam. He had also used Siam as a base-in-exile during his quest for the throne in the 1780s.<ref name="g24"/> However, direct appeals to the Siamese government for aid only yielded a few pack trains of firearms and ammunition.<ref name="m62"/> In preparation for the revolt, Thuyet had been preparing an armed base at [[Tan So]] for over a year.<ref name="c17"/><Ref name="c20">Chapuis, p. 20.</ref>

In any case, the Can Vuong revolt started on [[July 5]], [[1885]] when Thuyet attempted a surprise attack against the colonial forces after a diplomatic confrontation with the French.<ref>Marr, p. 47.</ref><ref name="k99">Karnow, p. 99.</ref><Ref name="c19">Chappuis, p. 19.</ref> The attack failed and Thuyet took Ham Nghi on a northbound escape to the Tan So mountain base near the border with Laos. The campaign was launched when the regent had the emperor issue his Can Vuong edict.<Ref name="c20"/><ref>Marr, p. 43.</ref>

Phung initially rallied support from his native village and set up his headquarters on Mount [[Vu Quang]]. The headquarters overlooked the coastal French fortress at [[Ha Tinh]]. Phung's organisation became a model for future insurgents. For flexibility, he divided his operational zone into twelve districts.<ref name="k"/> His forces upheld military discipline and wore uniforms.<Ref name="c93">Chapuis, p. 93.</ref> Phung initially used the local scholar-gentry as his military commanders. Their first notable attack targeted two nearby Catholic villages that collaborated with the French colonials. French troops arrived a few hours later, quickly overwhelming the rebels and forcing them to retreat to their home village, where the retribution was heavy.<ref name="m62"/> Phung managed to escape but his elder brother was captured by the same former viceroy of northern Vietnam who had been removed from office by Emperor Tu Duc as a result of Phung's critical report. The disgraced official was now a French collaborator, serving as the governor of [[Nghe An]] province.<ref name="m62"/>

The strategy of attempting to pressure Phung into capitulating was a classical strategy of coercion. It used an old friend and fellow villager to make an emotional and deeply Confucian appeal for Phung to surrender in order to save his brother, his ancestral tombs and his entire village. Phung was reported to have replied:<Ref name="m63"/>

{{quote|From the time I joined with you in the Can Vuong movement, I determined to forget the question of family and village. Now I have but one tomb, a very large one, that must be defended: the land of Vietnam. I have only one brother, very important, that is in danger: more than twenty million countrymen. If I worry about my own tombs, who will worry about defending the tombs of the rest of the country? If I save my own brother, who will save all the other brothers of the country? There is only one way for me to die now.<ref name="m63">Marr, p. 63.</ref>}}

He was later reported to have simply retorted, "If anyone carves up my brother, remember to send me some of the soup".<Ref name="m63"/> However, Phung held no illusions about the prospect of successfully driving out the French, stating "It is our destiny. We accept it."<ref name="c93"/>

This incident and Phung's response are often cited as one of the reasons why Phung was so admired by the populace and among future generations of Vietnamese anti-colonialists and nationalists for adhering to the highest personal standards of patriotism. The incident was interpreted as his identification with a countrywide cause, far removed from the questions of family and region.<ref name="m63"/>

Phung's men were well-trained and disciplined, and the military inspiration behind his rebels was derived from [[Cao Thang]], a bandit leader who was protected from royal forces by Phung's brother a decade earlier.<ref name="m61"/> They operated in the provinces of [[Thanh Hoa Province|Thanh Hoa]] in the north, [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]], [[Nghe An Province|Nghe An]] in the centre and [[Quang Binh Province|Quang Binh]] in the south, but were strongest in the two central provinces.<ref name="k"/> In 1887, Phung concluded that his tactics were misguided and ordered Cao Thang and his other subordinates to cease open combat and resort to guerrilla tactics. They built up a network of [[base camp]]s, food caches, intelligence agents and peasant supply contacts. Phung traveled to the north in the hope of organising strategy and tactics with other leaders. In the meantime, Cao Thang led a force of around a 1,000 men with some 500 firearms between them.<ref name="c93"/><Ref name="m63"/> Cao Thang was able to produce around 300 rifles by disassembling and copying 1874-model French weapons that had been captured.<Ref name="m63"/><Ref name="g25">Goscha, p. 25.</ref> Vietnamese artisans were captured for the purpose of creating such replica guns. According to French officers who later captured some of the Vietnamese copies, the weapons were proficiently reproduced. The only details in which they were regarded as being defective were in the tempering of the springs, which were improvised with [[umbrella]] spokes, and the lack of [[rifling]] in the barrels, which curtailed range and accuracy.<ref name="m64">Marr, p. 64.</ref>

Nevertheless, Phung's rebels were equipped with weapons that were far inferior to their adversaries, and their inland positions were within firing range of the [[French Navy]].<Ref name="g24"/> The Vietnamese could not rely on China to give them material support, and other European powers such as [[Portugal]], [[The Netherlands]] and the [[United Kingdom]] were unwilling to sell weapons for various reasons. Thus, Phung had to explore overland routes to procure weapons from Siamese sources—using seafaring transport was not possible due to the presence of the French Navy.<Ref name="g24"/> He instructed his followers to create a secret route from Ha Tinh through Laos into north-eastern Siam. One such route from Mount Vu Quang was believed to have been created in around 1888.<ref name="g25"/> It is unclear if Phung himself went to Thailand,<ref name="g25"/> but a young female supporter by the name of Co Tam was his designated arms buyer in [[Tha Uthen]], which boasted a substantial expatriate Vietnamese community.<ref name="g25"/> In 1890, around 1,000 Austrian repeating-rifles were transported by the Siamese Army from Bangkok to [[Luang Prabang]] in Laos. However, it is unclear whether the weapons found their way into Vietnamese hands or whether they were related to Co Tam's activities.<ref name="g25"/>

=== After Can Vuong ===

In 1888, Ham Nghi was betrayed by his [[Muong]] bodyguard Truong Quang Ngoc,<ref name="c92">Chapuis, p. 62.</ref> and was captured by the French, who deported him to [[Algeria]].<ref name="c21"/><Ref>Marr, p. 57.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 100.</ref> Phung and Cao Thang fought on in the mountainous areas of Ha Tinh, Nghe An and Thanh Hoa. Another 15 bases were built along the mountain to complement the headquarters at Vu Quang. Each base had a subordinate commander and between 100 and 500 men. The operations were funded by local villagers, who were levied with a land tax in silver and rice.<ref name="k"/><Ref name="g25"/><ref name="m64"/> Local bases were supported by nearby villages and excess funds were sent to Vu Quang. [[Cinnamon]] bark was foraged and sold to raise funds, while lowland peasants donated spare metals for the production of weapons.<Ref name="g25"/><Ref name="m64"/>

When Phung returned from the north in 1889, his first order was for his rebels to track down Ham Nghi's betrayer Ngoc.<Ref name="m64"/> Phung personally executed Ngoc in [[Tuyen Hoa]].<ref name="c93"/> He then commenced a series of small-unit attacks on French installations through the summer of 1890, but these proved indecisive. The French relied mostly on district and provincial colonial units to man their perpetually increasing line of forts, which were usually commanded by a French lieutenant.<ref name="m64"/> In late 1890, a French effort to move into the low-lying villages and isolate the populace from the mountainous rebel bases failed. In the spring of 1892, a major French sweep of Ha Tinh failed, and in August, Cao Thang seized the initiative with a bold counterattack on the provincial capital. The rebels broke into the jail and freed their compatriots, killing a large number of the Vietnamese soldiers who defended the penitentiary as members of the French colonial forces. This caused the French to intensify their efforts against Phung, and a counteroffensive was conducted throughout the remainder of 1892, forcing the rebels to retreat back into the mountains. Two of their bases fell and steady French pressure began to break their covert resistance links with lowland villages. This compounded the problems of securing food, supplies, intelligence data and recruits. A ring of French forts continued to be erected, increasingly pinning down the rebels.<ref name="m65"/> The only notable positive for Phung's forces during this period was the acquisition of gunpowder supplies from Siam.<Ref name="g25"/> This enabled them to mix foreign and local powder on a 50:50 proportion, rather than their previous weaker mixture of 20:80 proportion.<Ref>Marr, pp. 64–65.</ref>

Late in the year, the burden on Phung increased after the loss of two Can Vuong allies. In September, [[Tong Duy Tan]]—who led the royalists in Thanh Hoa— was captured and publicly executed.<ref name="c93"/><ref>Marr, p. 60–61.</ref> Nguyen Thien Thuat, who had been active in the northern provinces of [[Hung Yen]] and [[Hai Duong]], fled to [[Guangxi]] in [[China]]. The supporters of Tan and Tuat moved south and integrated into Phung's force.<ref name="c93"/>

In mid-1893, Cao Thang proposed a full-scale attack on the provincial seat of [[Nghe An]] and the surrounding posts. The plan proposed to Phung included diversions to the south and the training of almost 2000 men in conventional military tactics. Skeptical of its viability , Phung reluctantly approved the plan.<ref name="m65"/> The troops were eager, but after overpowering several small posts ''en route'', the main force was pinned down while attacking the French fort of No on [[September 9]], [[1893]]. Along with his brother, Cao Thang was mortally wounded while leading a risky frontal attack with 150 men, and the forces retreated in disarray. Phung regarded the loss of Cao Thang as a significant one, admitting as much in his eulogy and funeral oration for Cao Thang.<ref name="m65">Marr, p. 65.</ref> According to the historian David Marr, there was evidence that Phung clearly realised the advantages and limitations of prolonged resistance.<ref name="m66"/> Although Phung had previously stated that he was not expecting ultimate success,<ref name="c93"/> the guerrilla leader thought it important to keep pressuring the French and to demonstrate to the Vietnamese people that there was an alternative to what he felt was a defeatist attitude from the Huế court.<Ref name="m66">Marr, p. 66.</ref>

=== Downfall ===

[[Hoang Cao Khai]], the French-installed viceroy of [[Tonkin]], perceived Phung's intent to a degree that his French masters did not.<Ref name="m66"/> Khai was born into a scholar-gentry family from the same village as Phung.<Ref name="h113">Hodgkin, p. 113.</ref> Khai became the main backer of a determined effort to decisively crush Phung's rebels, and he used every means available: political, psychological and economic.<ref name="m66"/> By late 1894, suspected rebel sympathisers in the lowlands and relatives of insurgents were intimidated and several more insurgent commanders had been killed. Communications were disrupted, and the rebel hideouts became increasingly insecure. In an attempt to force Phung to surrender, the French arrested his family and desecrated the tombs of his ancestors, putting the remains put on display in Ha Tinh.<Ref name="k"/><ref name="m66"/>

Khai had a message delivered to Phung via a relative. Phung sent a written reply, allowing the exchange between the opposing viewpoints to be studied. Khai's letter recalled the common origins of the pair and promised Phung that Khai would lobby Governor-General Jean-Marie Antoine de Lannessan and other French officials for an amnesty in return for Phung's surrender.<ref name="l123">Lam, p. 123.</ref> Khai credited Phung with righteousness, loyalty and dedication towards the monarchy.<ref name="m66"/>

{{quote|The situation has changed and even those without intelligence or education have concluded that nothing remains to be saved. How is it that you, a man of vast understanding, do not realise this? . .You are determined to do whatever you deem to be righteous. . . All that matters indeed is giving of one's life to one's country. No one therefore can deter you from your goal.<ref name="m66"/><ref name="hck">Lam, pp. 122–124.</ref>
 
 
I have always been taught that superior men should consider the care of the people as fundamental; who has ever heard of men who were loyal to their King but forgot the people's aspirations?. . .As of now, hundreds of families are subject to grief; how do you have the heart to fight on? I venture to predict that, should you pursue your struggle, not only will the population of our village be destroyed but our entire country will be transformed into a sea of blood and a mountain of bones.<ref name="hck"/><ref name="m67">Marr, p. 67.</ref> }}

According to Marr, "Phan Dinh Phung's reply was a classic in savage understatement, utilizing standard formalism in the interest of propaganda, with deft denigration of his opponent".<ref name="m67"/> Phung appealed to Vietnamese nationalist sentiment, recalling his country's stubborn resistance to Chinese aggression. He cited defensive wars against the [[Han Dynasty|Han]], [[Tang Dynasty|Tang]], [[Sung Dynasty|Sung]], [[Yuan Dynasty|Yuan]] and [[Ming Dynasty|Ming dynasties]], asking why a country "a thousand times more powerful" could not annex Vietnam.<ref name="l125">Lam, p. 125.</ref> He concluded that it was "because the destiny of our country has been willed by Heaven itself".<ref name="m67"/><ref name="l125"/>

Phung placed the responsibility for the suffering of the people at the feet of the French who "acted like a storm".<Ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp">Lam, p. 126–127.</ref> After analysing his own actions, Phung concluded with a thinly-veiled attack on Khai and his fellow collaborators.<Ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp"/>

{{quote|If our region has suffered to such an extent, it was not only from the misfortunes of war. You must realise that wherever the French go, there flock around them groups of petty men who offer plans and tricks to gain the enemy's confidence. These persons create every kind of enmity; they incriminate innocent persons, blaming one one day, punishing another the next. They use every expedient to squeeze the people out of their possessions. That is how hundred of misdeeds, thousands of offenses have been perpetrated.<ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp"/>}}

Khai's appeal was rebutted with an appeal to history, nationalist sentiment and a demand that the blame for death and destruction lay with the colonials and their Vietnamese assistants. Phung raised the stakes above family and village to the entire nation and its populace.<Ref name="m68">Marr, p. 68.</ref>

With Phung's rebuke in his hands, Khai translated both documents into French and presented them to de Lanessan, proposing that it was time for the final "destruction of this scholar gentry rebellion".<ref name="m68"/> In July 1895, French area commanders called in 3,000 troops to tighten the cordon around the three remaining rebel bases.<ref name="c93"/> The insurgents were able to execute ambushes at night, but Phung contracted dysentery and had to carried whenever his unit moved. A collaborator mandarin named [[Nguyen Than]], who had previous experience in pacification in [[Quang Ngai]] and [[Quang Nam]], was drafted in to isolate the villagers from the rebels. Cut off from their supplies, the insurgents were left to survive by eating roots and occasional handfuls of dried corn. Their shoes were worn through and most were without blankets.<Ref name="h113"/><ref name="m68"/> Phung died of dysentery on [[January 21]], [[1896]] and his captured followers were executed. A report submitted by the de Lanessan to the Minister of Colonies in [[Paris]] stated that "the soul of resistance to the protectorate was gone".<ref name="m68"/>

== Legacy ==

Phung's remains were disturbed after his death. [[Ngo Dinh Kha]], a Catholic mandarin and father of [[Ngo Dinh Diem]]—the first President of [[South Vietnam]]—was a member of the French colonial administration. Kha had Phung's tomb exhumed and used the remains in gunpowder used for executing revolutionaries.<Ref>{{cite journal |author= Vu Ngu Chieu |year=1986 |month=February |title=The Other Side of the 1945 Vietnamese Revolution: The Empire of Viet-Nam |journal=[[Journal of Asian Studies]] |volume=45 |issue=2 |pages=p. 306 |accessdate= 2007-11-02}}</ref>

Phung is widely regarded by Vietnamese people as a revolutionary hero. [[Phan Boi Chau]], regarded as the leading Vietnamese anti-colonial figure of the early 20th century, strongly praised Phung in his writing, with particular emphasis on his defiance of Khai.<ref>Marr, p. 117.</ref> During Chau's career as a teacher, he particularly emphasised Phung's deeds to his students.<ref>Marr, p. 85.</ref> In the 1940s, the [[Vietminh]] named their self-produced style of grenades in honour of Phung.<ref>Karnow, p. 173.</ref> Both North and South Vietnam had prominent thoroughfares in their capital cities ([[Hanoi]] and [[Saigon]], respectively) named in Phung's honour.<ref>{{cite book| title=Vietnam Country Map |publisher=Periplus Travel Maps |year=2002–03 |isbn=0-7946-0070-0}}</ref>

==Notes ==
{{reflist|3}}
== References ==
*{{cite book|title= The last emperors of Vietnam: from Tu Duc to Bao Dai |first=Oscar |last=Chapuis |publisher=[[Greenwood Press]] | year=2000 |isbn=0-313-31170-6}}
*{{cite book|title= Thailand and the Southeast Asian Networks of the Vietnamese Revolution, 1885–1954 |first=Christopher E. |last=Goscha |publisher=[[Routledge]] | year=1999 |isbn=0-700-70622-4}}
*{{cite book| title=Vietnam:A history| first=Stanley |last=Karnow |authorlink=Stanley Karnow| year=1997 |publisher=[[Penguin Books]] | isbn=0-670-84218-4}}
*{{cite book |first=Mark W. |last=McLeod | title=The Vietnamese response to French intervention, 1862–1874 |publisher=[[Praeger Publishers]] | year=1991 |isbn=0-275-93652-0}}
*{{cite book|title=Vietnamese anticolonialism, 1885–1925| first= David G. |last=Marr |year=1970 |publisher=[[University of California]] |location=[[Berkeley, California|Berkeley]]| isbn=0-520-01813-3}}
*{{Cite book |author=Truong Buu Lam | title=Patterns of Vietnamese response to foreign intervention: 1858–1900 |year=1967 |publisher=[[Yale University|Southeast Asia Studies Yale University]] |series=Monograph Series No. 11}}

{{Vietnamese independence movement}}

[[Category:1847 births]]
[[Category:1896 deaths]]
[[Category:French Indochina]]
[[Category:Vietnamese revolutionaries]]
[[Category:Ha Tinh Province]]
[[Category:Mandarins of the Nguyen Dynasty]]
[[Category:Vietnamese Confucianists]]

[[vi:Phan Đình Phùng]]

Phan Đình Phùng

2008-07-04T05:17:54Z

Rungbachduong: /* Court official */ + image

{{Vietnamese name2|Phan|Phùng}}
{{Infobox revolution biography
|name=Phan Đình Phùng
|lived=1847 – [[January 21]] [[1896]]
|image=[[Image:Phan Dinh Phung.jpg]]
|caption=Phan Đình Phùng, 19th century Vietnamese scholar and anti-colonial revolutionary
|alternate name=Phan Dinh Phung
|dateofbirth= 1847
|placeofbirth=[[Dong Thai]], [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]], [[Vietnam]]
|dateofdeath=[[January 21]], [[1896]]
|placeofdeath=[[Nghe An Province]], [[Vietnam]]
|movement=[[Can Vuong]]
|organizations=[[Nguyen Dynasty]]
|religion=[[Confucianism]]
|prizes=1st place, Metropolitan imperial examinations, 1877
|footnotes=Imperial Censor of Emperor [[Tu Duc]]
}}

'''Phan Đình Phùng''' (1847 – [[January 21]], [[1896]]) was a [[Vietnamese people|Vietnamese]] revolutionary who led rebel armies against [[French Colonial Empire|French colonial forces]] in [[Vietnam]]. He was the most prominent of the [[Confucian]] court scholars involved in anti-French military campaigns in the 19th century and was cited after his death by 20th century nationalists as a [[national hero]]. He was renowned for his uncompromising will and principles—on one occasion, he refused to surrender even after the French had desecrated his ancestral tombs and had arrested and threatened to kill his family.

Born into a family of [[mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarins]] from [[Ha Tinh Province]], Phung continued his ancestors' traditions by placing first in the metropolitan imperial examinations in 1877. Phung quickly rose through the ranks under Emperor [[Tu Duc]] of the [[Nguyen Dynasty]], gaining a reputation for his integrity and uncompromising stance against corruption. Phung was appointed as the Imperial Censor, a position that allowed him to criticise his fellow mandarins and even the emperor. As the head of the censorate, Phung's investigations led to the removal of many incompetent or corrupt mandarins.

Upon Tu Duc's death, Phung almost lost his life during a power struggle in the imperial court. The regent [[Ton That Thuyet]] disregarded Tu Duc's will of succession, and three emperors were deposed and killed in just over a year. Phung protested against Thuyet's activities and was stripped of his honours and was briefly jailed before being exiled to his home province. At the time, [[France]] had just conquered Vietnam and made it a part of [[French Indochina]]. Along with Thuyet, Phung organised rebel armies as part of the [[Can Vuong]] movement, which sought to expel the French and install the boy Emperor [[Ham Nghi]] at the head of an independent Vietnam. This campaign continued for three years until 1888, when the French captured Ham Nghi and exiled him to Algeria.

Phung and his military assistant [[Cao Thang]] continued their guerrilla campaign, building a network of spies, bases and small weapons factories. However, Cao Thang was killed in a campaign in late 1893. The decade-long campaign eventually wore Phung down, and he died from [[dysentery]] as the French surrounded his forces.

== Court official ==
[[Image:Phan Dinh Phung manuscript.jpg|right|thumb|Manuscript signed by Phan Dinh Phung]]
Phung was born in the village of [[Dong Thai]], reputed for producing a number high-ranking [[mandarin (bureaucrat)|mandarins]], in the northern central coast province of [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]]. Dong Thai had produced senior imperial officials from the time of the [[Le Dynasty]]. The Phan family had twelve consecutive generations of successful mandarinate graduates before Phung.<ref name="m61"/> Of Phung's brothers, the three that lived to adulthood all passed the imperial examinations and became mandarins.<Ref name="m61"/><Ref>Hodgkin, p. 117.</ref> Phung himself gave early indications of distaste towards the classical curriculum required of an aspiring mandarin. He nevertheless persevered with his studies, passing the regional exams in 1876 and then topping the metropolitan exams in the following year.<ref name="m61">Marr, p. 61.</ref> In his exam response, Phung cited [[Japan]] as an example of how an Asian country could make rapid military progress given sufficient willpower.<Ref>Hodgkin, p. 116.</ref>

Phung was never known for his scholarly abilities; it was his reputation of principled integrity that led to his quick rise through the ranks under the reign of Emperor [[Tu Duc]].<ref name="m61"/> His was first appointed as a district mandarin in [[Ninh Binh Province]], where he punished a Vietnamese [[Catholic]] priest, who, with the tacit support of French [[missionaries]], had harassed local non-Catholics. Amid the diplomatic controversy that followed, he avoided blaming the unpopular alliance between Vietnamese Catholics and the French on the nature of Catholicism itself, stating that the partnership had arisen out of the military and political vulnerabilities of Vietnam's imperial government.<Ref name="m61"/> Despite this, the Huế court eventually removed Phung from this post.<Ref name="m62"/>

Phung was transferred to the court as a member of the censorate, a watchdog body that monitored the work of the mandarinate. He earned the ire of many of his colleagues, but the trust of the emperor by revealing that the vast majority of the court mandarins were making a mockery of a royal [[edict]] to engage in regular [[rifle]] practice.<ref name="m62"/> Tu Duc later dispatched Phung on an inspection trip to northern Vietnam. His report led to the ousting of many officials who were deemed to be corrupt or incompetent, including the [[viceroy]] of the northern region.<ref name="m62">Marr, p. 62.</ref> He rose to become the Ngu Su, meaning Imperial Censor. The position allowed him to criticise other high officials and even the emperor for misconduct.<Ref name="k"/> Phung openly criticised [[Ton That Thuyet]], the foremost mandarin of the court, believing him to be rash and dishonest.<ref name="k">Karnow, p. 121.</ref> Aside from his work in rooting out corruption, Phung also compiled a historical geography of Vietnam, which was penned in 1883.<Ref name="g24">Goscha, p. 24.</ref>

Despite his prominent position in the [[Nguyen Dynasty]], little is known about Phung's personal stance on Vietnamese relations with France, which was in the process of colonising Vietnam.<ref name="m62"/> France had first invaded in 1858,<Ref name="mc43">McLeod, p. 43.</ref> beginning the [[colonization of Cochinchina|colonisation of southern Vietnam]].<Ref>McLeod, pp. 44–45.</ref> Three provinces were ceded under the 1862 [[Treaty of Saigon]],<ref>McLeod, p. 54.</ref><ReF>Karnow, p. 119.</ref> and a further three in 1867 to form the colony of [[Cochinchina]].<ref>McLeod, p. 55.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 90.</ref> During the period, there was debate in the Huế court on the best strategy to regain the territory. One group advocated regaining the land by military means, while another group advocated the use of diplomacy and the offering of financial and religious concessions.<Ref>McLeod, pp. 51–53.</ref> By the time of [[Tu Duc]]'s death in 1883, the whole of Vietnam was colonised, henceforth incorporated with [[Laos]] and [[Cambodia]] into [[French Indochina]].<ref>Marr, p. 55.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 98.</ref>

Upon his death in 1883, the childless Tu Duc had named his nephew [[Kien Phuc]] as his successor,<Ref name="m62"/> rather than [[Duc Duc]], the most senior heir. Tu Duc had written in his will that Duc Duc was depraved and unworthy of ruling the country.<Ref name="c15">Chapuis, p. 15.</ref> However, led by Thuyet, the regents enthroned Duc Duc under the pressure of the ladies of the court.<ref name="m62"/><ref name="c15"/> Phung protested against the violation of Tu Duc's will of succession and refused to sanction anyone other than Kien Phuc. Lucky to escape a death penalty, Phung was stripped of his positions.<ref name="m62"/> Later, Duc Duc was deposed and executed by Thuyet on the grounds of ignoring court etiquette, ignoring the mourning rites for Tu Duc and having affairs with the late emperor's consorts.<Ref name="c15"/> Phung again protested against the regents' actions and was briefly imprisoned by Thuyet, before being exiled to his home province.<ref name="m62"/>

== Revolutionary career ==
===Can Vuong ===

Phung rallied to the cause of the boy Emperor [[Ham Nghi]] after an abortive royal uprising at [[Huế]] in 1885.<Ref name="m62"/> Ham Nghi was the fourth monarch in little over a year.<ref>Chapuis, 15–18.</ref> Thuyet and fellow regent [[Nguyen Van Tuong]] had enthroned [[Hiep Hoa]] after disposing of Duc Duc. However, the new emperor was wary of the regents' behaviour and attempted to avoid their influence, leading Thuyet to organise execution.<ref>Chapuis, p. 16.</ref> The teenaged [[Kien Phuc]] ascended the throne, but was poisoned to death by his adoptive mother [[Hoc Phi]]—one of Tu Duc's wives—whom he caught with Tuong.<ref name="c17">Chapuis, p. 17.</ref> Kien Phuc was replaced by his 14-year-old brother Ham Nghi. In the meantime, the French concluded that the regents had to be disposed of.<Ref name="c17"/>

Thuyet had already decided to place Ham Nghi at the head of the ''Phong Trào Cần Vuơng'' (''Loyalty to the Emperor Movement''), which sought to end French rule with a royalist rebellion. Phung helped the cause by setting up bases in [[Ha Tinh]] and creating his own guerrilla army.<ref name="m62"/> Thuyet had hoped to secure support from the [[Qing Dynasty]] of [[China]],<Ref name="c21">Chapuis, p. 21.</ref> but Phung thought that Vietnam's best chance of effective support came from [[Siam]].<ref name="g24"/> [[Gia Long]], the founder of the Nguyen Dynasty and great-grandfather of Tu Duc, had married his sister off to the King of Siam. He had also used Siam as a base-in-exile during his quest for the throne in the 1780s.<ref name="g24"/> However, direct appeals to the Siamese government for aid only yielded a few pack trains of firearms and ammunition.<ref name="m62"/> In preparation for the revolt, Thuyet had been preparing an armed base at [[Tan So]] for over a year.<ref name="c17"/><Ref name="c20">Chapuis, p. 20.</ref>

In any case, the Can Vuong revolt started on [[July 5]], [[1885]] when Thuyet attempted a surprise attack against the colonial forces after a diplomatic confrontation with the French.<ref>Marr, p. 47.</ref><ref name="k99">Karnow, p. 99.</ref><Ref name="c19">Chappuis, p. 19.</ref> The attack failed and Thuyet took Ham Nghi on a northbound escape to the Tan So mountain base near the border with Laos. The campaign was launched when the regent had the emperor issue his Can Vuong edict.<Ref name="c20"/><ref>Marr, p. 43.</ref>

Phung initially rallied support from his native village and set up his headquarters on Mount [[Vu Quang]]. The headquarters overlooked the coastal French fortress at [[Ha Tinh]]. Phung's organisation became a model for future insurgents. For flexibility, he divided his operational zone into twelve districts.<ref name="k"/> His forces upheld military discipline and wore uniforms.<Ref name="c93">Chapuis, p. 93.</ref> Phung initially used the local scholar-gentry as his military commanders. Their first notable attack targeted two nearby Catholic villages that collaborated with the French colonials. French troops arrived a few hours later, quickly overwhelming the rebels and forcing them to retreat to their home village, where the retribution was heavy.<ref name="m62"/> Phung managed to escape but his elder brother was captured by the same former viceroy of northern Vietnam who had been removed from office by Emperor Tu Duc as a result of Phung's critical report. The disgraced official was now a French collaborator, serving as the governor of [[Nghe An]] province.<ref name="m62"/>

The strategy of attempting to pressure Phung into capitulating was a classical strategy of coercion. It used an old friend and fellow villager to make an emotional and deeply Confucian appeal for Phung to surrender in order to save his brother, his ancestral tombs and his entire village. Phung was reported to have replied:<Ref name="m63"/>

{{quote|From the time I joined with you in the Can Vuong movement, I determined to forget the question of family and village. Now I have but one tomb, a very large one, that must be defended: the land of Vietnam. I have only one brother, very important, that is in danger: more than twenty million countrymen. If I worry about my own tombs, who will worry about defending the tombs of the rest of the country? If I save my own brother, who will save all the other brothers of the country? There is only one way for me to die now.<ref name="m63">Marr, p. 63.</ref>}}

He was later reported to have simply retorted, "If anyone carves up my brother, remember to send me some of the soup".<Ref name="m63"/> However, Phung held no illusions about the prospect of successfully driving out the French, stating "It is our destiny. We accept it."<ref name="c93"/>

This incident and Phung's response are often cited as one of the reasons why Phung was so admired by the populace and among future generations of Vietnamese anti-colonialists and nationalists for adhering to the highest personal standards of patriotism. The incident was interpreted as his identification with a countrywide cause, far removed from the questions of family and region.<ref name="m63"/>

Phung's men were well-trained and disciplined, and the military inspiration behind his rebels was derived from [[Cao Thang]], a bandit leader who was protected from royal forces by Phung's brother a decade earlier.<ref name="m61"/> They operated in the provinces of [[Thanh Hoa Province|Thanh Hoa]] in the north, [[Ha Tinh Province|Ha Tinh]], [[Nghe An Province|Nghe An]] in the centre and [[Quang Binh Province|Quang Binh]] in the south, but were strongest in the two central provinces.<ref name="k"/> In 1887, Phung concluded that his tactics were misguided and ordered Cao Thang and his other subordinates to cease open combat and resort to guerrilla tactics. They built up a network of [[base camp]]s, food caches, intelligence agents and peasant supply contacts. Phung traveled to the north in the hope of organising strategy and tactics with other leaders. In the meantime, Cao Thang led a force of around a 1,000 men with some 500 firearms between them.<ref name="c93"/><Ref name="m63"/> Cao Thang was able to produce around 300 rifles by disassembling and copying 1874-model French weapons that had been captured.<Ref name="m63"/><Ref name="g25">Goscha, p. 25.</ref> Vietnamese artisans were captured for the purpose of creating such replica guns. According to French officers who later captured some of the Vietnamese copies, the weapons were proficiently reproduced. The only details in which they were regarded as being defective were in the tempering of the springs, which were improvised with [[umbrella]] spokes, and the lack of [[rifling]] in the barrels, which curtailed range and accuracy.<ref name="m64">Marr, p. 64.</ref>

Nevertheless, Phung's rebels were equipped with weapons that were far inferior to their adversaries, and their inland positions were within firing range of the [[French Navy]].<Ref name="g24"/> The Vietnamese could not rely on China to give them material support, and other European powers such as [[Portugal]], [[The Netherlands]] and the [[United Kingdom]] were unwilling to sell weapons for various reasons. Thus, Phung had to explore overland routes to procure weapons from Siamese sources—using seafaring transport was not possible due to the presence of the French Navy.<Ref name="g24"/> He instructed his followers to create a secret route from Ha Tinh through Laos into north-eastern Siam. One such route from Mount Vu Quang was believed to have been created in around 1888.<ref name="g25"/> It is unclear if Phung himself went to Thailand,<ref name="g25"/> but a young female supporter by the name of Co Tam was his designated arms buyer in [[Tha Uthen]], which boasted a substantial expatriate Vietnamese community.<ref name="g25"/> In 1890, around 1,000 Austrian repeating-rifles were transported by the Siamese Army from Bangkok to [[Luang Prabang]] in Laos. However, it is unclear whether the weapons found their way into Vietnamese hands or whether they were related to Co Tam's activities.<ref name="g25"/>

=== After Can Vuong ===

In 1888, Ham Nghi was betrayed by his [[Muong]] bodyguard Truong Quang Ngoc,<ref name="c92">Chapuis, p. 62.</ref> and was captured by the French, who deported him to [[Algeria]].<ref name="c21"/><Ref>Marr, p. 57.</ref><ref>Karnow, p. 100.</ref> Phung and Cao Thang fought on in the mountainous areas of Ha Tinh, Nghe An and Thanh Hoa. Another 15 bases were built along the mountain to complement the headquarters at Vu Quang. Each base had a subordinate commander and between 100 and 500 men. The operations were funded by local villagers, who were levied with a land tax in silver and rice.<ref name="k"/><Ref name="g25"/><ref name="m64"/> Local bases were supported by nearby villages and excess funds were sent to Vu Quang. [[Cinnamon]] bark was foraged and sold to raise funds, while lowland peasants donated spare metals for the production of weapons.<Ref name="g25"/><Ref name="m64"/>

When Phung returned from the north in 1889, his first order was for his rebels to track down Ham Nghi's betrayer Ngoc.<Ref name="m64"/> Phung personally executed Ngoc in [[Tuyen Hoa]].<ref name="c93"/> He then commenced a series of small-unit attacks on French installations through the summer of 1890, but these proved indecisive. The French relied mostly on district and provincial colonial units to man their perpetually increasing line of forts, which were usually commanded by a French lieutenant.<ref name="m64"/> In late 1890, a French effort to move into the low-lying villages and isolate the populace from the mountainous rebel bases failed. In the spring of 1892, a major French sweep of Ha Tinh failed, and in August, Cao Thang seized the initiative with a bold counterattack on the provincial capital. The rebels broke into the jail and freed their compatriots, killing a large number of the Vietnamese soldiers who defended the penitentiary as members of the French colonial forces. This caused the French to intensify their efforts against Phung, and a counteroffensive was conducted throughout the remainder of 1892, forcing the rebels to retreat back into the mountains. Two of their bases fell and steady French pressure began to break their covert resistance links with lowland villages. This compounded the problems of securing food, supplies, intelligence data and recruits. A ring of French forts continued to be erected, increasingly pinning down the rebels.<ref name="m65"/> The only notable positive for Phung's forces during this period was the acquisition of gunpowder supplies from Siam.<Ref name="g25"/> This enabled them to mix foreign and local powder on a 50:50 proportion, rather than their previous weaker mixture of 20:80 proportion.<Ref>Marr, pp. 64–65.</ref>

Late in the year, the burden on Phung increased after the loss of two Can Vuong allies. In September, [[Tong Duy Tan]]—who led the royalists in Thanh Hoa— was captured and publicly executed.<ref name="c93"/><ref>Marr, p. 60–61.</ref> Nguyen Thien Thuat, who had been active in the northern provinces of [[Hung Yen]] and [[Hai Duong]], fled to [[Guangxi]] in [[China]]. The supporters of Tan and Tuat moved south and integrated into Phung's force.<ref name="c93"/>

In mid-1893, Cao Thang proposed a full-scale attack on the provincial seat of [[Nghe An]] and the surrounding posts. The plan proposed to Phung included diversions to the south and the training of almost 2000 men in conventional military tactics. Skeptical of its viability , Phung reluctantly approved the plan.<ref name="m65"/> The troops were eager, but after overpowering several small posts ''en route'', the main force was pinned down while attacking the French fort of No on [[September 9]], [[1893]]. Along with his brother, Cao Thang was mortally wounded while leading a risky frontal attack with 150 men, and the forces retreated in disarray. Phung regarded the loss of Cao Thang as a significant one, admitting as much in his eulogy and funeral oration for Cao Thang.<ref name="m65">Marr, p. 65.</ref> According to the historian David Marr, there was evidence that Phung clearly realised the advantages and limitations of prolonged resistance.<ref name="m66"/> Although Phung had previously stated that he was not expecting ultimate success,<ref name="c93"/> the guerrilla leader thought it important to keep pressuring the French and to demonstrate to the Vietnamese people that there was an alternative to what he felt was a defeatist attitude from the Huế court.<Ref name="m66">Marr, p. 66.</ref>

=== Downfall ===

[[Hoang Cao Khai]], the French-installed viceroy of [[Tonkin]], perceived Phung's intent to a degree that his French masters did not.<Ref name="m66"/> Khai was born into a scholar-gentry family from the same village as Phung.<Ref name="h113">Hodgkin, p. 113.</ref> Khai became the main backer of a determined effort to decisively crush Phung's rebels, and he used every means available: political, psychological and economic.<ref name="m66"/> By late 1894, suspected rebel sympathisers in the lowlands and relatives of insurgents were intimidated and several more insurgent commanders had been killed. Communications were disrupted, and the rebel hideouts became increasingly insecure. In an attempt to force Phung to surrender, the French arrested his family and desecrated the tombs of his ancestors, putting the remains put on display in Ha Tinh.<Ref name="k"/><ref name="m66"/>

Khai had a message delivered to Phung via a relative. Phung sent a written reply, allowing the exchange between the opposing viewpoints to be studied. Khai's letter recalled the common origins of the pair and promised Phung that Khai would lobby Governor-General Jean-Marie Antoine de Lannessan and other French officials for an amnesty in return for Phung's surrender.<ref name="l123">Lam, p. 123.</ref> Khai credited Phung with righteousness, loyalty and dedication towards the monarchy.<ref name="m66"/>

{{quote|The situation has changed and even those without intelligence or education have concluded that nothing remains to be saved. How is it that you, a man of vast understanding, do not realise this? . .You are determined to do whatever you deem to be righteous. . . All that matters indeed is giving of one's life to one's country. No one therefore can deter you from your goal.<ref name="m66"/><ref name="hck">Lam, pp. 122–124.</ref>
 
 
I have always been taught that superior men should consider the care of the people as fundamental; who has ever heard of men who were loyal to their King but forgot the people's aspirations?. . .As of now, hundreds of families are subject to grief; how do you have the heart to fight on? I venture to predict that, should you pursue your struggle, not only will the population of our village be destroyed but our entire country will be transformed into a sea of blood and a mountain of bones.<ref name="hck"/><ref name="m67">Marr, p. 67.</ref> }}

According to Marr, "Phan Dinh Phung's reply was a classic in savage understatement, utilizing standard formalism in the interest of propaganda, with deft denigration of his opponent".<ref name="m67"/> Phung appealed to Vietnamese nationalist sentiment, recalling his country's stubborn resistance to Chinese aggression. He cited defensive wars against the [[Han Dynasty|Han]], [[Tang Dynasty|Tang]], [[Sung Dynasty|Sung]], [[Yuan Dynasty|Yuan]] and [[Ming Dynasty|Ming dynasties]], asking why a country "a thousand times more powerful" could not annex Vietnam.<ref name="l125">Lam, p. 125.</ref> He concluded that it was "because the destiny of our country has been willed by Heaven itself".<ref name="m67"/><ref name="l125"/>

Phung placed the responsibility for the suffering of the people at the feet of the French who "acted like a storm".<Ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp">Lam, p. 126–127.</ref> After analysing his own actions, Phung concluded with a thinly-veiled attack on Khai and his fellow collaborators.<Ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp"/>

{{quote|If our region has suffered to such an extent, it was not only from the misfortunes of war. You must realise that wherever the French go, there flock around them groups of petty men who offer plans and tricks to gain the enemy's confidence. These persons create every kind of enmity; they incriminate innocent persons, blaming one one day, punishing another the next. They use every expedient to squeeze the people out of their possessions. That is how hundred of misdeeds, thousands of offenses have been perpetrated.<ref name="m67"/><Ref name="lpdp"/>}}

Khai's appeal was rebutted with an appeal to history, nationalist sentiment and a demand that the blame for death and destruction lay with the colonials and their Vietnamese assistants. Phung raised the stakes above family and village to the entire nation and its populace.<Ref name="m68">Marr, p. 68.</ref>

With Phung's rebuke in his hands, Khai translated both documents into French and presented them to de Lanessan, proposing that it was time for the final "destruction of this scholar gentry rebellion".<ref name="m68"/> In July 1895, French area commanders called in 3,000 troops to tighten the cordon around the three remaining rebel bases.<ref name="c93"/> The insurgents were able to execute ambushes at night, but Phung contracted dysentery and had to carried whenever his unit moved. A collaborator mandarin named [[Nguyen Than]], who had previous experience in pacification in [[Quang Ngai]] and [[Quang Nam]], was drafted in to isolate the villagers from the rebels. Cut off from their supplies, the insurgents were left to survive by eating roots and occasional handfuls of dried corn. Their shoes were worn through and most were without blankets.<Ref name="h113"/><ref name="m68"/> Phung died of dysentery on [[January 21]], [[1896]] and his captured followers were executed. A report submitted by the de Lanessan to the Minister of Colonies in [[Paris]] stated that "the soul of resistance to the protectorate was gone".<ref name="m68"/>

== Legacy ==

Phung's remains were disturbed after his death. [[Ngo Dinh Kha]], a Catholic mandarin and father of [[Ngo Dinh Diem]]—the first President of [[South Vietnam]]—was a member of the French colonial administration. Kha had Phung's tomb exhumed and used the remains in gunpowder used for executing revolutionaries.<Ref>{{cite journal |author= Vu Ngu Chieu |year=1986 |month=February |title=The Other Side of the 1945 Vietnamese Revolution: The Empire of Viet-Nam |journal=[[Journal of Asian Studies]] |volume=45 |issue=2 |pages=p. 306 |accessdate= 2007-11-02}}</ref>

Phung is widely regarded by Vietnamese people as a revolutionary hero. [[Phan Boi Chau]], regarded as the leading Vietnamese anti-colonial figure of the early 20th century, strongly praised Phung in his writing, with particular emphasis on his defiance of Khai.<ref>Marr, p. 117.</ref> During Chau's career as a teacher, he particularly emphasised Phung's deeds to his students.<ref>Marr, p. 85.</ref> In the 1940s, the [[Vietminh]] named their self-produced style of grenades in honour of Phung.<ref>Karnow, p. 173.</ref> Both North and South Vietnam had prominent thoroughfares in their capital cities ([[Hanoi]] and [[Saigon]], respectively) named in Phung's honour.<ref>{{cite book| title=Vietnam Country Map |publisher=Periplus Travel Maps |year=2002–03 |isbn=0-7946-0070-0}}</ref>

==Notes ==
{{reflist|3}}
== References ==
*{{cite book|title= The last emperors of Vietnam: from Tu Duc to Bao Dai |first=Oscar |last=Chapuis |publisher=[[Greenwood Press]] | year=2000 |isbn=0-313-31170-6}}
*{{cite book|title= Thailand and the Southeast Asian Networks of the Vietnamese Revolution, 1885–1954 |first=Christopher E. |last=Goscha |publisher=[[Routledge]] | year=1999 |isbn=0-700-70622-4}}
*{{cite book| title=Vietnam:A history| first=Stanley |last=Karnow |authorlink=Stanley Karnow| year=1997 |publisher=[[Penguin Books]] | isbn=0-670-84218-4}}
*{{cite book |first=Mark W. |last=McLeod | title=The Vietnamese response to French intervention, 1862–1874 |publisher=[[Praeger Publishers]] | year=1991 |isbn=0-275-93652-0}}
*{{cite book|title=Vietnamese anticolonialism, 1885–1925| first= David G. |last=Marr |year=1970 |publisher=[[University of California]] |location=[[Berkeley, California|Berkeley]]| isbn=0-520-01813-3}}
*{{Cite book |author=Truong Buu Lam | title=Patterns of Vietnamese response to foreign intervention: 1858–1900 |year=1967 |publisher=[[Yale University|Southeast Asia Studies Yale University]] |series=Monograph Series No. 11}}

{{Vietnamese independence movement}}

[[Category:1847 births]]
[[Category:1896 deaths]]
[[Category:French Indochina]]
[[Category:Vietnamese revolutionaries]]
[[Category:Ha Tinh Province]]
[[Category:Mandarins of the Nguyen Dynasty]]
[[Category:Vietnamese Confucianists]]

[[vi:Phan Đình Phùng]]

AFI's 10 Top 10

2008-07-01T20:07:38Z

Rungbachduong: /* Sports */ - disambig

{{AFI 100 Years... series}}
'''''AFI's 10 Top 10''''' honors the ten greatest [[United States|American]] films in ten classic film genres. Presented by the [[American Film Institute]] (AFI), the lists were unveiled on a [[television special]] broadcast by [[CBS]] on [[June 17]], [[2008]].

[[Jennifer Love Hewitt]], [[Jessica Alba]], [[Clint Eastwood]], [[James Woods]], [[Quentin Tarantino]], [[Gabriel Byrne]], [[Kirk Douglas]], [[Isabella Rossellini]], [[Sean Astin]], [[Harrison Ford]], [[Steven Spielberg]], [[George Lucas]], [[Elizabeth Perkins]], [[Cuba Gooding, Jr.]], [[James Earl Jones]], [[Nathan Lane]], [[Tim Allen]], [[Sigourney Weaver]], [[Michael J. Fox]], [[Dennis Hopper]], [[Gene Hackman]], [[Amy Madigan]], [[Dominic Monaghan]], [[Rita Wilson]], [[Andie MacDowell]], [[Harold Ramis]], [[Roman Polanski]], [[Robert Loggia]], [[Talia Shire]], [[Susan Sarandon]], [[Daniel Stern (actor)|Daniel Stern]], [[Norman Jewison]], [[Sidney Lumet]], [[Rob Reiner]], [[Ray Liotta]], and [[Jane Fonda]] discussed their admiration for and personal contributions to the films cited.

Like previous specials in the [[AFI 100 Years... series]], the entire list of 500 nominated films is available on the American Film Institute website.

==[[Animation]]==
Presented by Jennifer Love Hewitt
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film)|Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs]]''
| [[1937 in film|1937]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[Pinocchio (1940 film)|Pinocchio]]''
| [[1940 in film|1940]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[Bambi]]''
| [[1942 in film|1942]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[The Lion King (film)|The Lion King]]''
| [[1994 in film|1994]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[Fantasia (film)|Fantasia]]''
| [[1940 in film|1940]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[Toy Story]]''
| [[1995 in film|1995]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[Beauty and the Beast (1991 film)|Beauty and the Beast]]
| [[1991 in film|1991]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[Shrek]]''
| [[2001 in film|2001]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[Cinderella (1950 film)|Cinderella]]''
| [[1950 in film|1950]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[Finding Nemo]]''
| [[2003 in film|2003]]
|}

==[[Romantic comedy film]]s==
Presented by Jessica Alba
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[City Lights]]''
| [[1931 in film|1931]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[Annie Hall]]''
| [[1977 in film|1977]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[It Happened One Night]]''
| [[1934 in film|1934]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[Roman Holiday]]''
| [[1953 in film|1953]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[The Philadelphia Story]]''
| [[1940 in film|1940]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[When Harry Met Sally...]]''
| [[1989 in film|1989]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[Adam's Rib]]''
| [[1949 in film|1949]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[Moonstruck]]''
| [[1987 in film|1987]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[Harold and Maude]]''
| [[1971 in film|1971]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[Sleepless in Seattle]]''
| [[1993 in film|1993]]
|}

==[[Western (genre)|Westerns]]==
Presented by Clint Eastwood
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[The Searchers (film)|The Searchers]]''
| [[1956 in film|1956]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[High Noon]]''
| [[1952 in film|1952]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[Shane (film)|Shane]]''
| [[1953 in film|1953]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[Unforgiven]]''
| [[1992 in film|1992]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[Red River (film)|Red River]]''
| [[1948 in film|1948]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[The Wild Bunch]]''
| [[1969 in film|1969]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid]]''
| [[1959 in film|1969]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[McCabe and Mrs. Miller]]''
| [[1971 in film|1971]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[Stagecoach (film)|Stagecoach]]''
| [[1939 in film|1939]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[Cat Ballou]]''
| [[1965 in film|1965]]
|}

==[[List of sports films|Sports]]==
Presented by Cuba Gooding, Jr.
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[Raging Bull]]''
| [[1980 in film|1980]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[Rocky]]''
| [[1976 in film|1976]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[The Pride of the Yankees]]''
| [[1942 in film|1942]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[Hoosiers]]''
| [[1986 in film|1986]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[Bull Durham]]''
| [[1988 in film|1988]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[The Hustler (film)|The Hustler]]''
| [[1961 in film|1961]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[Caddyshack]]''
| [[1980 in film|1980]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[Breaking Away]]''
| [[1979 in film|1979]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[National Velvet (film)|National Velvet]]''
| [[1944 in film|1944]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[Jerry Maguire]]''
| [[1996 in film|1996]]
|}

==[[Mystery film]]s==
Presented by Gabriel Byrne
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[Vertigo (film)|Vertigo]]''
| [[1958 in film|1958]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[Chinatown (film)|Chinatown]]''
| [[1974 in film|1974]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[Rear Window]]''
| [[1954 in film|1954]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[Laura (1944 film)|Laura]]''
| [[1944 in film|1944]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[The Third Man]]''
| [[1949 in film|1949]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[The Maltese Falcon (1941 film)|The Maltese Falcon]]''
| [[1941 in film|1941]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[North by Northwest]]''
| [[1959 in film|1959]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[Blue Velvet]]''
| [[1986 in film|1986]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[Dial M for Murder]]''
| [[1954 in film|1954]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[The Usual Suspects]]''
| [[1995 in film|1995]]
|}

==[[Fantasy film]]s==
Presented by Sean Astin
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[The Wizard of Oz (1939 film)|The Wizard of Oz]]''
| [[1939 in film|1939]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring]]''
| [[2001 in film|2001]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[It's a Wonderful Life]]''
| [[1946 in film|1946]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[King Kong (1933 film)|King Kong]]''
| [[1933 in film|1933]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[Miracle on 34th Street]]''
| [[1947 in film|1947]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[Field of Dreams]]''
| [[1989 in film|1989]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[Harvey (film)|Harvey]]
| [[1950 in film|1950]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[Groundhog Day (film)|Groundhog Day]]''
| [[1993 in film|1993]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[The Thief of Bagdad (1924 film)|The Thief of Bagdad]]''
| [[1924 in film|1924]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[Big (film)|Big]]''
| [[1988 in film|1988]]
|}

==[[Science fiction film]]s==
Presented by Sigourney Weaver
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[2001: A Space Odyssey (film) | 2001: A Space Odyssey]]''
| [[1968 in film|1968]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope]]''
| [[1977 in film|1977]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial]]''
| [[1982 in film|1982]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[A Clockwork Orange (film) | A Clockwork Orange]]''
| [[1971 in film|1971]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951 film) | The Day the Earth Stood Still]]''
| [[1951 in film|1951]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[Blade Runner]]''
| [[1982 in film|1982]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[Alien (film) | Alien]]''
| [[1979 in film|1979]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[Terminator 2: Judgment Day]]''
| [[1991 in film|1991]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[Invasion of the Body Snatchers]]''
| [[1956 in film|1956]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[Back to the Future]]''
| [[1985 in film|1985]]
|}

==[[Crime film|Gangster films]]==
Presented by Quentin Tarantino
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[The Godfather]]''
| [[1972 in film|1972]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[Goodfellas]]''
| [[1990 in film|1990]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[The Godfather Part II]]''
| [[1974 in film|1974]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[White Heat]]''
| [[1949 in film|1949]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[Bonnie and Clyde (film)|Bonnie and Clyde]]''
| [[1967 in film|1967]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[Scarface (1932 film)|Scarface: The Shame of the Nation]]''
| [[1932 in film|1932]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[Pulp Fiction (film)|Pulp Fiction]]''
| [[1994 in film|1994]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[The Public Enemy]]''
| [[1931 in film|1931]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[Little Caesar (film)|Little Caesar]]''
| [[1931 in film|1931]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[Scarface (1983 film)|Scarface]]''
| [[1983 in film|1983]]
|}

==[[Legal drama|Courtroom dramas]]==
Presented by James Woods
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[To Kill a Mockingbird (film)|To Kill a Mockingbird]]''
| [[1962 in film|1962]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[12 Angry Men]]''
| [[1957 in film|1957]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[Kramer vs. Kramer]]''
| [[1979 in film|1979]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[The Verdict]]''
| [[1982 in film|1982]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[A Few Good Men]]''
| [[1992 in film|1992]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[Witness for the Prosecution]]''
| [[1957 in film|1957]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[Anatomy of a Murder]]''
| [[1959 in film|1959]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[In Cold Blood (film)|In Cold Blood]]''
| [[1967 in film|1967]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[A Cry in the Dark]]''
| [[1988 in film|1988]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[Judgment at Nuremberg]]''
| [[1961 in film|1961]]
|}

==[[Epic film|Epics]]==
Presented by Kirk Douglas
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="font-size: 100%; text-align: center; width: auto;"
|-
! Rank
! Film
! Year
|-
| 1
| ''[[Lawrence of Arabia (film)|Lawrence of Arabia]]''
| [[1962 in film|1962]]
|-
| 2
| ''[[Ben-Hur (1959 film)|Ben-Hur]]''
| [[1959 in film|1959]]
|-
| 3
| ''[[Schindler's List]]''
| [[1993 in film|1993]]
|-
| 4
| ''[[Gone with the Wind (film)|Gone with the Wind]]''
| [[1939 in film|1939]]
|-
| 5
| ''[[Spartacus (film)|Spartacus]]''
| [[1960 in film|1960]]
|-
| 6
| ''[[Titanic (1997 film)|Titanic]]''
| [[1997 in film|1997]]
|-
| 7
| ''[[All Quiet on the Western Front (1930 film)|All Quiet on the Western Front]]''
| [[1930 in film|1930]]
|-
| 8
| ''[[Saving Private Ryan]]''
| [[1998 in film|1998]]
|-
| 9
| ''[[Reds (film)|Reds]]''
| [[1981 in film|1981]]
|-
| 10
| ''[[The Ten Commandments (1956 film)|The Ten Commandments]]''
| [[1956 in film|1956]]
|}

==List breakdown==
*[[Alfred Hitchcock]] has a record number of movies in the mystery category, with four films he directed: ''[[Vertigo (film)|Vertigo]]'', ''[[Rear Window]]'', ''[[North By Northwest]]'', and ''[[Dial M for Murder]]''.

*[[Steven Spielberg]] has directed two epics on the list with ''[[Schindler's List]]'' and ''[[Saving Private Ryan]]'', and one science fiction film, ''[[E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial]]''.

*[[Stanley Kubrick]] directed multiple films on the lists with ''[[2001: A Space Odyssey (film)|2001: A Space Odyssey]]'' and ''[[A Clockwork Orange (film) |A Clockwork Orange]]'' on the science fiction list, and ''[[Spartacus (film)|Spartacus]]'' on the epic films list.

*[[The Walt Disney Company]] had more films cumulative on the list than any other director or producer. In the animation category, they had nine animated films that they either produced (seven) or released under their [[Walt Disney Pictures]] banner (two produced by [[Pixar]]). The only non-Disney cartoon film on the list is ''[[Shrek]]''.

*[[James Stewart (actor)|James Stewart]] is the most represented leading actor with six films. He makes his mark in four categories: fantasy with ''[[It's a Wonderful Life]]'' and ''[[Harvey (film)|Harvey]]'', mystery with ''[[Vertigo (film)|Vertigo]]'' and ''[[Rear Window]]'', romantic comedy with ''[[The Philadelphia Story]]'', and courtroom drama with ''[[Anatomy of a Murder]]''.

*[[Tom Hanks]] stars in four ranking films: fantasy with ''[[Big (film)|Big]]'', romantic comedy with ''[[Sleepless in Seattle]]'', epic with ''[[Saving Private Ryan]]'', and animation with ''[[Toy Story]]'', for which he provided lead vocals.

*[[Diane Keaton]] also appears in four ranking films: gangster with ''[[The Godfather]]'' and ''[[The Godfather Part II]]'', romantic comedy with ''[[Annie Hall]]'', and epic with ''[[Reds (film)|Reds]]''. She had a lead role in ''Annie Hall'' and ''Reds'', but only a supporting role in ''The Godfather'' and ''The Godfather Part II''.

*Actors [[John Wayne]], [[Grace Kelly]], [[Paul Newman]], [[Robert De Niro]], [[Gene Hackman]], [[Jack Nicholson]], [[Al Pacino]] each have three films on the list.

*[[Ward Bond]] appears in four films on these lists: ''[[It Happened One Night]]'', ''[[Gone with the Wind]]'', ''[[The Searchers]]'', and ''[[It's a Wonderful Life]]'', but all of them in varying degrees of support.

*There are a total of thirteen [[Academy Award]] [[Best Picture]] winners that appear on nine of the lists: ''[[Rocky]]'' in sports, ''[[Unforgiven]]'' in the westerns, ''[[The Godfather]]'' and ''[[The Godfather Part II]]'' in the gangsters, ''[[Annie Hall]]'' and ''[[It Happened One Night]]'' in the romantic comedies, ''[[Kramer vs. Kramer]]'' in the courtroom dramas, and finally, ''[[Lawrence of Arabia (film)|Lawrence of Arabia]]'', ''[[Ben-Hur (1959 film)|Ben-Hur]]'', ''[[Schindler's List]]'', ''[[Gone with the Wind (film)|Gone with the Wind]]'', ''[[Titanic (1997 film)|Titanic]]'', and ''[[All Quiet on the Western Front (1930 film)|All Quiet on the Western Front]]'' in the epics. There is not a Best Picture winner on the animation list. The only animated film ever nominated for Best Picture is ''[[Beauty and the Beast (1991 film)|Beauty and the Beast]]'', which appears at #7.

==External links==
[http://www.afi.com/tvevents/100years/10top10.aspx AFI's 10 Top 10]

[[Category:Cinema of the United States]]
[[Category:AFI 100 Years series]]
[[Category:CBS network shows]]

[[it:AFI's 10 Top 10]]
[[zh:AFI百年各類型電影十大佳片]]