View source for Talk:Sugar apple

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{{old move|date=14 March 2023|from=Sugar-apple|destination=Sugar apple|result=moved|link=Special:Permalink/1147291355#Requested move 14 March 2023}}

==Untitled==
Could someone provide specifics on what parts are to be eaten?  Foreigners are unaware of this.  I've heard unsubstantiated rumours that the skin and seeds are to be avoided.
You open the fruit up and only eat the white insides, the large black seeds and skin are inedible. Its quite sweet inside. Cheers, 
Stromasher24
:I don't know how much this fruit is like the [[cherimoya]], but the seeds of that fruit are poisonous according to it's wikipedia article. --[[User:62.45.26.246|62.45.26.246]] 18:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
--[[User:Ricardo Carneiro Pires|Ricardo Carneiro Pires]] 17:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

== Not a Maldive native ==

Flora of Maldives page staes quite clearly that it is for plants growing as natives. This species is not native to the Maldives.
<small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Ethel Aardvark|Ethel Aardvark]] ([[User talk:Ethel Aardvark|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ethel Aardvark|contribs]]){{#if:22:55, 13 June 2007|&#32;22:55, 13 June 2007|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

== We need facts! ==

This page needs interesting facts.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Realledi51|Realledi51]] ([[User talk:Realledi51|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Realledi51|contribs]]) 13:59, 20 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Agree - all the more reason to merge it with ''[[Annona squamosa]]'' [[User:Roy Bateman|Roy Bateman]] ([[User talk:Roy Bateman|talk]]) 11:49, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

== history ==

Any history on this fruit?  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Realledi51|Realledi51]] ([[User talk:Realledi51|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Realledi51|contribs]]) 13:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Merge proposal ==
{{Discussion top}}
Remove tag as no one had commented on merge proposal since April 2008. Please feel to re-nominate. Please add any other nominations to [[WP:WikiProject Food and drink#Merge/split Proposals WikiProject|Food and drink page]]. 

*'''Merge''' [[Annona squamosa]] into [[Sugar-apple]]. As with [[Banana]] or [[Peach]], one article discussing the growth and fruit of this plant is sufficient. No consensus was sought nor obtained for a split into two separate articles about this plant and the length of the article is not so great that such a split was necessary. Illogical and confusing POV forks without consensus at the page's talk page must not be permitted without discussion and consensus. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 18:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

{{Discussion bottom}}

==Merge proposal==
{{Discussion top|1=The result was '''not to merge'''.--[[User:Tealwisp|Tealwisp]] ([[User talk:Tealwisp|talk]]) 23:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)}}
*'''Merge''' from [[Annona squamosa]]. Common English name; illogical to have two separate articles on the very same species, as we do not have separate articles for [[Peach]] and ''[[Prunus persica]]''. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 22:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
* Oppose; the distinction between plant taxon and plant product is sound. [[User talk:Hesperian|Hesperian]] 05:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' See [[WP:NC (flora)]], as the two articles cover not the species, but the species as a botanical subject and its fruit as a food, respectively.  [[User:Tealwisp|Tealwisp]] ([[User talk:Tealwisp|talk]]) 23:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
{{Discussion bottom}}

== sugar apple =?= custard apple ==

The opening statement:  ''In some regions of the world, the sugar-apple is also known as custard-apple, a different plant in the same genus.''  is a contradiction.  What did the writer mean to say here? [[User:Rp|Rp]] ([[User talk:Rp|talk]]) 17:38, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

: What this means, is that this fruit is called custard-apple in some regions, but the name '''custard-apple''' is used for a different kind of fruit in other places.[[User:Wendy.krieger|Wendy.krieger]] ([[User talk:Wendy.krieger|talk]]) 09:01, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

== Slime molds? ==

There was one time I visited [[Thailand]] and saw these weird, small, white blob-like things crawling all over every one of these fruits, even the ones sold at supermarkets there. Does anybody know what they are, where they came from, or what they're doing on them? They kind of remind me of slime molds, but I don't know if they really are or not. (They can be rinsed away with water, and they only stay on the surface of the fruit--they're not present on anywhere else on the tree, nor did they even crawl onto the packaging in markets.) [[User:Ron Stoppable|Ron Stoppable]] ([[User talk:Ron Stoppable|talk]]) 20:29, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

From the description I'm guessing they were some kind of of [[mealy bug]]. [[User:Pouletic|Pouletic]] ([[User talk:Pouletic|talk]]) 15:38, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

== [[:File:Sugar apple with cross section.jpg]] to appear as POTD soon ==
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that [[:File:Sugar apple with cross section.jpg]] will be appearing as [[Wikipedia:picture of the day|picture of the day]] on September 12, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at [[Template:POTD/2011-09-12]]. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the [[Main Page]] so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! <span style="font-family:Verdana; ">'''[[User:Howcheng|<span style="color:#33C;">howcheng</span>]]'''  <small>{[[User talk:Howcheng|chat]]}</small></span> 16:19, 9 September 2011 (UTC) <!-- substituted from [[Template:UpcomingPOTD]] -->
{{POTD/2011-09-12}}

== Sugar-Apple / Annona squamosa ==

Back in 2008 a merge proposal for these 2 articles was rejected on the grounds that the economic fruit deserved one article, the botanical species another. Fair enough, perhaps. But today, the two articles have substantial overlap - the Sugar-Apple article for example talks about the semi-evergreen shrub with very detailed measurements of the leaves and flowers, which you might think better suited for a botanical article on the species of plant rather than one on the fruit; leaving aside the obvious point that they are the same species of plant. 

Do the articles need clearer separation? Merging, pace the old proposal? Or neither? [[User:Chiswick Chap|Chiswick Chap]] ([[User talk:Chiswick Chap|talk]]) 10:37, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

== Biology ==

What's it's life span?  What's it's pollinator?  What distributes it's seeds? ETC ETC  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/75.40.72.160|75.40.72.160]] ([[User talk:75.40.72.160|talk]]) 05:30, 15 September 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== sugar-apple ==


One of the names of it in India is Persian by origin: shareefa (sarifa), also known as sitafal in some parts of india. Possibly it was known in Asia before its discovery in South America. It is still common in India, but very seasonal, to be had for a very short time only during summer monsoon, thus a little expensive, too. Eaten can be the thin soft white skin of the black kernels from inside the fruit, sometimes tiny hard sugary-starchy pieces stick to that, which can be eaten too.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/176.4.118.90|176.4.118.90]] ([[User talk:176.4.118.90|talk]]) 19:27, 28 July 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> The photograph seems to show an unripe exemplar of the species. Usually no cuts are needed, since each of the kernels has its own green part, thus can be plucked individually after a little pressure on the outside which makes the apple burst open. The squamosa is not the same as the cherimoya, though they both go as custard-apple.

== 2013 merge proposal ==

There's a notice that a merge proposal was made in 2013 but no section in the discussion page about it.

The proposal has been made twice before and voted down based on the wikipedia guidelines that the fruit and botanical species can be treated as a separate subject. That's how i would vote on the matter, ''especially'' considering the regional ambiguity about what constitutes a sugar apple, but i do agree with the comment made that there is overlap in the two articles and suggest they be excised of unnecessarily redundant material and made to reference one another in a way that discourages recurrence. If merge proposal fails, I will make some efforts to that end. [[User:Pouletic|Pouletic]] ([[User talk:Pouletic|talk]]) 15:48, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
:I'm fine with the idea of having two articles, one about the fruit and one about the plant, but the current status doesn't seem to make a good distinction between the two.  I agree with you that there is currently too much overlap between the two articles (and that's presumably the reason for the merge proposals).  You have my support for any effort you want to make to disentangle the two topics.  [[User:Deli nk|Deli nk]] ([[User talk:Deli nk|talk]]) 19:38, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
::I have excised most of the material on the [[sugar-apple]] page that is not specific to the fruit itself. Content that was not redundant and also reasonably well cited was moved to the [[Annona squamosa]] page. I removed the merge proposal template from both pages. There is still room for refinement in both pages, but the major surgery has been done. I hope i didn't step on too many toes. Much of the content was anecdotal, anyway. Note that the paragraph about atemoya should probably be dealt with somehow: i didn't touch it.  [[User:Pouletic|Pouletic]] ([[User talk:Pouletic|talk]]) 04:32, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

== Nomenclature ==

The nomenclature section is unencyclopedic and reads like a direct lift from Wiktionary. This is also the case for some other culinary plant articles on Wikipedia, for some reason those that have relevance to India and its surrounds (similar long lists of terms in non-English languages exist on the pages for [[Jackfruit]], [[Carambola]], [[Tamarind]], [[Cardamom]], [[Ginger]], and [[Galangal]]). Unless there are very good reasons for keeping these sections as they are, I propose they should be relegated to Wiktionary, where such lists can be dealt with much more easily. [[User:Thefamouseccles|Thefamouseccles]] ([[User talk:Thefamouseccles|talk]]) 03:46, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
== "Custard pear" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect [[:Custard pear]] and has thus listed it [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|for discussion]]. This discussion will occur at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 4#Custard pear]] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Steel1943|<span style="color: #3F00FF;">'''''Steel1943'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Steel1943|talk]]) 06:11, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

== Previous merge proposals ==

Back in April 2008, there was a merge proposal that passed as "Merge" this article with ''[[Annona squamosa]]''. Then for some reason, even though it passed, a second merge proposal was made that failed. This same proposal took place on the Annona squamosa page with the same results, but only because the same people voted on it, and the one that passed was the one that took place first. There is an additional request for the articles to be merged at the ''Annona squamosa'' page, so that could count as a vote for merge anyway, causing that proposal to be a "Merge" result as well.

It is correct to merge these two articles. Take [[Coconut]] for example -- the plant/tree, the fruit, and the seed all redirect to a single page. The same can be said for [[Peach]], [[Apple]], [[Banana]], [[Pineapple]], [[Blueberry]], [[Strawberry]], [[Carrot]], [[Turnip]], [[Potato]], [[Watermelon]], [[Tomato]], [[Cucumber]], etc. and I can go on and on. [[Orange (fruit)|Orange]] is an example of an exception -- this is because orange is a general term for various types of citrus fruits from various types of trees, e.g. there are [[sweet oranges]], [[bitter oranges]], [[blood oranges]], etc. [[Cherry]] is another exception because there are [[Sweet cherry|sweet cherries]], [[black cherries]], etc. Sugar-apple does not fall into the category of exceptions to this rule because it only relates to '''one''' plant: ''Annona squamosa''. Other plants/fruits in this genus have entirely different names, e,g, [[Cherimoya]] and [[Soursop]], which both have their fruits and trees combined in the same articles.

Instead of making a new merge proposal, I am pretty sure we should just go ahead and accept the first merge proposal from 2008 as "passed" and complete the merge. As long as I don't receive any opposition, or I receive support, I can complete this merge for us, or someone else can if they'd like.

Unlike [[Sugar apple]], [[Custard apple]] can refer to fruits of more than one type of plant, and therefore that page should be left as is. [[User:LightProof1995|LightProof1995]] ([[User talk:LightProof1995|talk]]) 06:53, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

== Requested move 14 March 2023 ==

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''

The result of the move request was: '''moved.''' <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Closure by a page mover|closed by non-admin page mover]])</small> [[User:BilledMammal|BilledMammal]] ([[User talk:BilledMammal|talk]]) 00:35, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
----

[[:Sugar-apple]] → {{no redirect|Sugar apple}} – [[Sugar apple]] is the [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. Hyphens generally aren't used in nouns like this, only in adjectives.&#32;[[User:LightProof1995|LightProof1995]] ([[User talk:LightProof1995|talk]]) 05:17, 14 March 2023 (UTC) <small>''This is a contested technical request'' ([[Special:Permalink/1144570161|permalink]]). [[User:LightProof1995|LightProof1995]] ([[User talk:LightProof1995|talk]]) 12:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)</small> <small>—&nbsp;'''''Relisting.'''''&nbsp;[[User_talk:Asukite|<span style="color:Purple;font-size:medium;font-family:Bradley Hand ITC"> ASUKITE</span>]] 15:55, 22 March 2023 (UTC)</small>
A quick Google search of "Sugar-apple or sugar apple?" reveals "Sugar apple" to be the [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. [[User:LightProof1995|LightProof1995]] ([[User talk:LightProof1995|talk]]) 12:57, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per [[WP:COMMONNAME]] based on the [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=sugar-apple%2Csugar+apple&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3 Google Ngrams]. Also, [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sugar%20apple Webster's dictionary], [https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sugar-apple Dictionary.com], and [https://www.thefreedictionary.com/sugar+apple TheFreeDictionary] all list it as "sugar apple" without a hyphen. [[User:Rreagan007|Rreagan007]] ([[User talk:Rreagan007|talk]]) 01:37, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Both forms are found in the article's sources, and when I search online, I don't see the proposed title as more common (the ngrams are likely misleading: Google Books results are swamped with false positives). {{u|LightProof1995}}, the use of hyphens you're referring to concerns adjectives like "centuries-old", but they're not relevant here. The convention used in this case is common in the literature about organisms. The principle is: use "A B" if A B is a form of B (e.g. [[Bellflower apple]], which is a cultivar of apple), but ''A-B'' otherwise (a sugar-apple is completely different from apples). This conventions isn't universally followed on Wikipedia, but it's helpful in deciding edge cases like this one. – [[User:Uanfala|Uanfala]] ([[User talk:Uanfala|talk]]) 14:52, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
*:That is cool and I didn't know that so thanks for sharing. However, this doesn't match [[custard apple]]. If what you say is true, and we leave this as sugar-apple, that page would need to be renamed to custard-apple. [[User:LightProof1995|LightProof1995]] ([[User talk:LightProof1995|talk]]) 14:58, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
*::Yeah, a lot of the same considerations apply to [[custard apple]]. – [[User:Uanfala|Uanfala]] ([[User talk:Uanfala|talk]]) 15:38, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support''' seems that both versions are used frequently as noted by a simple search above and a quick glance at two botanical databases [http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=200008509] [https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:72319-1/general-information#vernacular-names]. So not sure how much [[WP:COMMONNAME]] is applicable here. But per [[WP:CRITERIA]] point #5, Sugar apple would be the most [[WP:CONSISTENT]] to other similar articles' titles such as custard apple. [[User:Eucalyptusmint|Eucalyptusmint]] ([[User talk:Eucalyptusmint|talk]]) 19:53, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support''', [[User:Eucalyptusmint]] says it well. Botanical databases should always be used to support plant common names. In this case, where some databases e.g. [https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxon/taxonomydetail?id=3503 GRIN] use a hyphenated form and some e.g. [https://plants.sc.egov.usda.gov/home/plantProfile?symbol=ANSQ USDA] are unhyphenated, the more natural form (unhyphenated) should be favoured ([[WP:CRITERIA]] again). [[User:Declangi|Declangi]] ([[User talk:Declangi|talk]]) 23:59, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
:<small>Note: [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink|WikiProject Food and drink]] has been notified of this discussion. [[User_talk:Asukite|<span style="color:Purple;font-size:medium;font-family:Bradley Hand ITC"> ASUKITE</span>]] 15:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)</small>
:<small>Note: [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants|WikiProject Plants]] has been notified of this discussion. [[User_talk:Asukite|<span style="color:Purple;font-size:medium;font-family:Bradley Hand ITC"> ASUKITE</span>]] 15:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)</small>
:<small>'''Relisting comment''': Relisting to seek participation, it should be noted that the nom is indef. blocked and will be unable to reply, but not blocked for any reason that should invalidate their previous comments, from what I can tell. [[User_talk:Asukite|<span style="color:Purple;font-size:medium;font-family:Bradley Hand ITC"> ASUKITE</span>]] 15:55, 22 March 2023 (UTC)</small>
:'''Support''' per Eucalyptusmint. [[User:Silikonz|'''<span style="background:#36c;color:white;padding:5px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">Silikonz</span>''']][[User talk:Silikonz|<span style="background:#eaecf0;padding:2px;box-shadow:0 1px 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.2)">💬</span>]] 00:15, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
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