View source for Wikipedia:Requests for de-adminship/Macdonald-ross

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:''The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a '''successful''' [[Wikipedia:Requests for permissions|permissions request]]. <strong style="color:red">Please do not modify it</strong>.''[[Category:Successful requests for adminship|{{SUBPAGENAME}}]]
*'''Result:''' Sysop rights removed. [[User:Chenzw|<span style="color:rgb(96,0,0)">Chenzw</span>]]&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User_talk:Chenzw|<span style="font-size:10px;color:rgb(96,0,0)">Talk</span>]]&nbsp; 01:11, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
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===Macdonald-ross===
:[[User:Macdonald-ross|Macdonald-ross]] <span class="plainlinks">([[User talk:Macdonald-ross|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contribs/Macdonald-ross|contribs]] '''·''' [//xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/?username=Macdonald-ross&project=simple.wikipedia.org count])</span>
<noinclude>{{RfA Statistics|Macdonald-ross}}</noinclude>
''End date: 21:25, 6 September 2024 (UTC)''

<!--Please type in your reason for requesting adminship below this line-->
Hello there,

I'm requesting that Macdonald-ross have his adminship removed here, for misusing admin tools &ndash; primarily not following quick deletion criteria and [[:w:WP:ADMINACCT|not being responsive to previous concerns about the way he is using his tools]].

Much of this de-adminship request centres around misuse of the "A4" quick deletion (QD) criterion and notability in particular. A4 is about, quoting from [[WP:A4|deletion policy]], {{tq|people, groups, companies, products, services or websites that do not '''claim''' to be notable.}} (bolding mine). There is a difference between articles on non-notable topics and articles on non-notable topics that have a claim to notability (or a [[:w:Wikipedia:Credible claim of significance|credible claim of significance]] on enwiki), yet there have been many cases where claims to notability seemingly have gone unnoticed and even articles for notable topics have been deleted. He has also deleted many articles in cases where QD criteria do not apply, or just used his own reasons with no reasoning in policy instead. I would like to provide a few examples, although this is obviously not an exhaustive list:

#On 16 July 2022, Macdonald-ross deleted [[Priyanka Rani Joshi]] as A4 but, as [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Archive 5#Priyanka Rani Joshi|was pointed out at Deletion review]], she won a national beauty pageant, Miss Nepal, that is a clear claim to notability. No comment was made by him at Deletion review.
#On 25 October 2022, he deleted [[:2022 WhatsApp Outage]] as a test page. [[Special:Redirect/logid/2303127|The public log entry]] indicates it clearly is not a test page. No comment was made at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Archive 5#2022 WhatsApp Outage]]. The page was later deleted at Requests for deletion (RfD), but it did not meet any QD criteria.
#On 12 January 2024, [[:Coat of arms of Bulgaria]] was deleted as A4 by Macdonald-ross, despite it being the coat of arms for a country. Complex language was also noted in the deletion reason, but the article is not [[WP:A3|a copy from the English Wikipedia]] and complex language is not alone a reason for quick deletion. No comment was made at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#Coat of Arms of Bulgaria]].
#On 26 March 2024, [[:X-Men '97]] was deleted as G2 but [[Special:Diff/9440136|this]] is clearly not a test page. I restored it following [[User talk:Ferien/Archives/2024/March#Deleted article|a request on my talk page]].
#On 28 March 2024, [[:Puppy Bowl]] was deleted for the reason of "not notable". Sure, there is no claim to notability in that article, but pages are not deleted for failing notability guidelines (or just being "not notable" as the deletion reason says), as this is determined at RfD. Simply reviewing the [[:w:Puppy Bowl|enwiki equivalent]] will show plenty of references to prove notability. No comment was made at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#Puppy Bowl]].
#On 9 July 2024, [[:Area code 712]] was deleted for the reason of "Area codes not notable in encyclopedia". If this is the case, we have [[:Category:Area codes|hundreds of articles to get deleting]]. Area codes are not eligible for A4, as they do not fall under any of the categories listed in A4. No comment was made at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#Area code 712]].
#On 29 July 2024, [[:Lena Katina]] was randomly deleted for the reason of "Notability scarcely justified". Again, deletion policy is usually referred to if making a quick deletion over it yet this did not happen here. Lena Katina is one half of the duo [[:w:t.A.T.u.|t.A.T.u. (enwiki link)]], a group that produced many popular songs, one example being "All The Things She Said" that reached number 1 in 19 countries. I restored it, as it was a long-standing article on a clearly notable topic.
#On 28 August 2024, [[:Fourth Sarkar ministry]] was deleted as A4, despite it previously being the government for an Indian state with 3.67 million people, which I believe is a clear claim of notability. I should note this was an article I created, but I wasn't made aware until I was scrolling through my own logged actions for other reasons.

I believe these deletions show a pattern of not listening to the community's concerns and not following Deletion policy over a long period of time. There are definitely other inappropriate deletions I could probably find, but I don't think it is necessary to find dozens of these deletions and collect them in one place.

I would like to note I did not want to start this RfdA. Macdonald-ross is one of our most active administrators, and editors in general, and I have a lot of respect for his work here. All admins make mistakes, but these have been repeated many times without any sign that he is intending to start following policy. The comment at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Archive 5#Cat racism|Deletion review in 2021 here]] particularly concerns me, as it indicates he will continue to delete pages at RfD early in "obvious cases", rather than following the quick deletion criteria. Indeed, as shown by the evidence above, this is what he has continued to do despite criticism from other editors and admins. Finally, there is a fine line between being tough on spammy articles and [[WP:BITE|biting newcomers]] trying their best to create new articles. I find it the case that that line was crossed long ago and Macdonald-ross' attitude to deletion is hindering constructive articles from being created. --[[User:Ferien|Ferien]] <small>([[User talk:Ferien|talk]])</small> 21:25, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
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====Support====
#{{support}} Mistakes can be forgiven, but repeating them after warnings is not acceptable as an admin.  --[[User:Cactusisme|'''<span style="color:#0D98BA;">Cactus</span><span style="color:#013220;">🌵</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Cactusisme|<i style="color:green">spiky</i>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Cactusisme|<i style="color:green">ouch</i>]]</sup>  04:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#:I am really sorry @[[User:Macdonald-ross|Macdonald-ross]] but if you had cleaned up your mess after and not let others do or even just responded to peoples comments, this would not have happened. If you improve, I '''will''' support your adminship in the future. [[User:Cactusisme|'''<span style="color:#0D98BA;">Cactus</span><span style="color:#013220;">🌵</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Cactusisme|<i style="color:green">spiky</i>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Cactusisme|<i style="color:green">ouch</i>]]</sup>  11:01, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#{{support}} The biggest error I know is [[special:redirect/logid/2631723]], and this was finally corrected by others. We already lost 3 admins in this year and I don't think we have enough admins to correct others. [[User:MathXplore|MathXplore]] ([[User talk:MathXplore|talk]]) 09:09, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#{{support}} This user has multiple times shown issues with their actions, like the whatsapp outage listed here. While we do understand mistakes, we also understand that continuing to make said mistakes after being told previously is not a good activity. His actions also harm his trustworthiness, and in my opinion, an admin fails when they can no longer be trusted to execute proper policy.- [[User:FusionSub|<span style="color: #0C6508">FusionSub</span>]] ([[User_talk:FusionSub|Talk page]]) ([[Special:Contributions/FusionSub|Contributions]]) 11:25, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#{{support}} Mistakes happen, but this is a repeated pattern of disruptive behaviour with little to no signs of change. Maybe I can support a future admin request in a year or two when they've evidenced change, but right now I don't see any way out of this other than a desysop nom. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 11:30, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#{{support}} - While I acknowledge that our Wikipedia currently has a limited number of administrators and losing one, especially an active one like @[[User:Macdonald-ross|Macdonald-ross]], is a significant loss, but I share Ferien's concerns, especially regarding the handling of QD and RFD requests. I have seen articles deleted by Macdonald-Ross, perhaps "by mistake", such as the [[Fourth Sarkar ministry]] (deleted as A4) and [[Abdulrahman Abed]] (Deleted during an ongoing RFD). Mistakes like [[Special:Diff/9736830]] only increase the workload for other admins. Contributions like [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Macdonald-ross/Archive_37#Blood this removed just because it wasn't very detailed] and mistakes like [[Special:Diff/9705761]], [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Macdonald-ross/Archive_36#Punctuation Accidental revert], and [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Macdonald-ross/Archive_36#Why_did_you_indefinetly_block_136.158.7.247 Indefinite block of an IP] are concerning. Everyone makes mistakes, but consistently repeating them is not acceptable behavior for an admin. The diff by MathXplore also concerns me, and I’ve noticed that most comments left on Macdonald-Ross's talk page are left unaddressed or answered by others. In conclusion, I support this de-adminship, but I hope Macdonald-Ross continues to be an active editor. I still appreciate your contributions here, as you are one of the most active editors on this small wiki. – [[User:Cyber.Eyes.2005|<span style="color: #0099ff;">'''Cyber.Eyes.'''</span><span style="color: #ff6600;">'''2005'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Cyber.Eyes.2005|<span style="color: #003366;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 11:55, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#:FYI @[[User:Cyber.Eyes.2005|Cyber.Eyes.2005]] I'm not saying this is the case but the indeffing of the IP may have been a glitch with the system as I recall this also happened with Drmies and a few other admins at the English Wikipedia whom were all unaware until it was pointed out to them, Thanks, –[[User:Davey2010|<span style="color: blue;">'''Davey'''</span><span style="color: orange;">'''2010'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Davey2010|<span style="color: navy;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 16:09, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#::I understand that it might have been a system glitch, but it's concerning that Mac didn't address the issue when the reason for the block was questioned. I would be willing to support a future admin request if there is evidence of improvement in addressing the concerns raised here. – [[User:Cyber.Eyes.2005|<span style="color: #0099ff;">'''Cyber.Eyes.'''</span><span style="color: #ff6600;">'''2005'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Cyber.Eyes.2005|<span style="color: #003366;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 16:24, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#:::@[[User:Cyber.Eyes.2005|Cyber.Eyes.2005]] I completely agree with you, "Ooops I wasn't aware, I'll fix this now" or ''any'' response would've been better than just silence, Thanks, –[[User:Davey2010|<span style="color: blue;">'''Davey'''</span><span style="color: orange;">'''2010'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Davey2010|<span style="color: navy;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 16:35, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#{{support}} Many times I have filed an RFD only for the article to be quickly deleted by Mac. In those cases, the RFD in question isn't even closed by Mac. Their application of QD criteria, especially ones that have to do with notability, shows a disregard of the deletion policy. — [[User:Fehufanga|*Fehufangą]] ♮ [[User talk:Fehufanga|✉ Talk page]]  14:35, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#{{support}}, due to concerns raised above unfortunately. Sometimes, admins who do not attempt to help new administrators after a successful RfA... that can potentially lead to not-so-good errors from said new administrators. [[User:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0024FF">'''''Codename Noreste'''''</span>]] 🤔 [[User talk:Codename Noreste|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0A16A5">''Talk''</span>]] 14:41, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
#{{support}} per everyone above - We certainly need all of the admins we can get so I take no joy in supporting this de-adminship however Macdonald-ross's QD-deletions have been questionable for a very long time but [https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Lena+Katina the deletion of Lena Katina] was the final nail in the coffin for me, They were told [https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=9620885 here] to stop with the random deletions and yet unfortunately it still continued. Mistakes happen but the random deletions of articles under your own criteria aren't mistakes - they're disruptive and damaging. Unfortunate support. –[[User:Davey2010|<span style="color: blue;">'''Davey'''</span><span style="color: orange;">'''2010'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Davey2010|<span style="color: navy;">'''Talk'''</span>]]</sup> 16:31, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
# {{support}} per nom; shame. [[User:Queen of Hearts|Queen of Hearts]] ([[User talk:Queen of Hearts|talk]]) 20:47, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
# {{support}} While I do support I wanted to state that this has nothing against Macdonald-ross himself. Rather, this is from a policy standpoint. --[[User:つがる|<span style="color: #f207cb">'''Tsugaru'''</span>]] [[User_Talk:つがる|<span style="color:blue">'''let's talk! :)'''</span>]] 02:45, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
# '''Support''' we expect a little more from our admins (see [[w:WP:ADMINCONDUCT]]). Whilst I don't think anything specific here is a red flag in of itself, there's clearly a lack of communication, which is the base minimum I expect from an admin. The sheer amount of vandalism deletion and other admin only actions is quite vast on simple, so we might struggle without this user, however, we still need those with the toolset to be trussted. '''[[User:Lee Vilenski|<span style="color:green">Lee Vilenski</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Lee Vilenski|talk]] • [[Special:Contribs/Lee Vilenski|contribs]])</sup>''' 13:51, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
# '''Support''' Cactusisme's comment echoes my thoughts.  Mistakes - no problem, but improving, clear communication and owning up to errors is needed.  The QD's when there's a solid article on enwiki is really bothersome.  More than once I've tagged an article here with no sources and just a line or two and only afterwards realized there's a better article on another wiki that shows notability.  Revert the tag and go on.  That's not happened here. [[User:Ravensfire|Ravensfire]] ([[User talk:Ravensfire|talk]]) 23:09, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
# {{Support}} I am sorry and I promise it is nothing personal, but I have to support this request. I too have a story to share, happened late August 2024: see [[User talk:Macdonald-ross#Undeletion request (done)|this discussion]]. I think there was a mistake on my part, when I asked for the G6 deletion of the redirect (I wanted to move that userbox, I probably should have asked in the admin's noticeboard instead), however I have never ever asked for the deletion of the userbox itself (and I never placed any QD tags on it). Problem is, the userbox was deleted as "G2: test page" ([https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=2798926 single deletion log], [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=&user=&page=Template%3AUser+wikipedia&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist all logs]). Careful: my concerns do <u>not</u> come from the accidental deletion of the userbox, but from the ''reason'' for that deletion. It was a [[Template:User Wikipedia|nice looking userbox]], used by 103 users, clearly not a test page in any way. He might have deleted it by mistake (the title is very similar to its redirect), but how was that a test page? '''[[User:Dream Indigo|<span style="color:Indigo;font-family:Andalus">✩ Dream</span>]] [[User talk:Dream Indigo|<span style="color:Indigo;font-family:Andalus">Indigo ✩</span>]]''' 16:01, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
#:@[[User:Dream Indigo|Dream Indigo]] adding on, even when Indigo told him about the mistake, he still didn't undelete it. Mathxplore undeleted it based on my request. [[User:Cactusisme|'''<span style="color:#0D98BA;">Cactus</span><span style="color:#013220;">🌵</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:Cactusisme|<i style="color:green">spiky</i>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Cactusisme|<i style="color:green">ouch</i>]]</sup>  09:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
#:: (Note) The request is archived in [[User_talk:MathXplore/2024/08#Concern]]. [[User:MathXplore|MathXplore]] ([[User talk:MathXplore|talk]]) 10:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
# {{Support}} unfortunately. It's sad it has come down to this, but the disregard for policy is concerning. [[User:Ternera|Ternera]] ([[User talk:Ternera|talk]]) 20:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
# {{support}} It's sad but it's obvious that the trust of the community has been lost.  '''''[[User:Fr33kman|<span style="color: darkgreen">fr33k</span>]][[User talk:Fr33kman|<span style="color: navy">man</span>]]''''' 21:39, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

====Oppose====


====Comments====
*There was also some strangeness/ oddity about handling of the [[Carbon suboxide]] topic being Deleted after at least two experienced users having made improvements to the article. See<br>[[Wikipedia:Simple_talk/Archive_160#Chemistry_(second_week_of_August)]], and<br>[[Wikipedia:Simple_talk/Archive_160#Issue_with_carbon_suboxide_page]].--The overall case seems to be a misuse of QD tools (resulting in some strangeness regarding someone coming along a few days later and (allegedly) recreating some lines of the previous article. The result being that the somewhat new article has a lot of gobbledegook in the lede, which was not in the lede of the old article, at the time of QD.) [[Special:Contributions/2001:2020:30B:CC99:BD90:74FF:2A91:ADB3|2001:2020:30B:CC99:BD90:74FF:2A91:ADB3]] ([[User talk:2001:2020:30B:CC99:BD90:74FF:2A91:ADB3|talk]]) 01:08, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
*:The previous comment was meant as a general comment ('''not Oppose''' and '''not Support''').--Merely pointing out a viewpoint of "a misuse of QD tools".--(The comment at  01:08 today, was allegedly mine. Sorry if i should have been clearer in my earlier post.) [[Special:Contributions/2001:2020:355:A53B:3DF7:4E4F:5185:171D|2001:2020:355:A53B:3DF7:4E4F:5185:171D]] ([[User talk:2001:2020:355:A53B:3DF7:4E4F:5185:171D|talk]]) 13:36, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
*::You are in the comments section... [[User:Eptalon|Eptalon]] ([[User talk:Eptalon|talk]]) 16:35, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
* I'll note this RfDA was linked to in [[WP:Discord|the Discord]]; the post was neutral (although I don't believe I can actually post it here), but worth noting. [[User:Queen of Hearts|Queen of Hearts]] ([[User talk:Queen of Hearts|talk]]) 20:47, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
*:Confirming the same, it's how I became aware of this. [[User:Hey man im josh|Hey man im josh]] ([[User talk:Hey man im josh|talk]]) 01:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
*:Yeah, that was me. I wanted to make sure that it was neutral to avoid pushing the outcome in one direction but rather having people decide themselves.- [[User:FusionSub|<span style="color: #0C6508">FusionSub</span>]] ([[User_talk:FusionSub|Talk page]]) ([[Special:Contributions/FusionSub|Contributions]]) 16:28, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
*I remember having [[Special:Permalink/7198632#Restore of Reham Khan|a disagreement]] with Macdonald-ross about this 5 years ago (honestly can't believe I remember something that specific from 2018). I haven't been active enough lately to feel comfortable voting in this, but I wanted to note that I'm sad it came to this. Thank you for starting this discussion Ferien, it's necessary but unfortunate; this could have been resolved with just more communication. [[User:Vermont|Vermont]] ([[User talk:Vermont|🐿️]]—[[Special:Contributions/Vermont|🏳️‍🌈]]) 01:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
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