View source for Talk:Yeshua

{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|1=
{{WikiProject Anthroponymy|importance=high}}
{{WikiProject Christianity|importance=High|jesus-work-group=yes|messianic-judaism=yes|messianic-judaism-importance=Top|bible=yes|bible-importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Judaism}}
}}

==Greek transliteration==

I'm again removing this stuff:

"The fact that the Septuagint and Nehemiah call Joshua Iēsous or Yeshua indicates that the name was pronounced in this way at their time. The question we address now is whether this form was used at the time of Jesus. Was the Greek spelling Iēsous meant to reflect the actual pronunciation as Yeshua, or was his name really Yehoshua and those who composed the Greek of our New Testament changed it to Iēsous in order to conform to some convention?

Although the form Iēsous was the normal form for [[Joshua son of Nun]], this would obviously not require Greek writers or translators to use it for someone else named Yehoshua`. (The normal transliteration of Yehoshua would have been Ιωσους or Ιωσουε (compare the Latin Iosue), as in other NT names like Ιωσαφατ for Yehoshaphat.) And yet all New Testament writers or translators (at least nine different persons) use the form Iēsous for the founder of Christianity.<!--Ghost, please do not delete this again as though it's "original research"! It's simply a statement of fact.-->"


This is indeed original research. The forms Ιωσους or Ιωσουε are unattested in any Greek text nor does any discussion of the name in published works present these speculative forms. All known cases of Greek transliteration of the name Joshua are Iēsous, no other form is known. Also its not the Septuagint that calls "Joshua" by the name "Yeshua" it is the original Hebrew texts of Ezra and Nehemiah that use "Yeshua", you seem to be equating Iēsous with "Yeshua" despite the fact that it is used for "Yehoshuah" as well and there is no indication that Yehoshua was pronounced Yeshua when written out in Hebrew in uncontracted form, you seem to think that the Greek form implies the contracted Hebrew pronunciation Yeshua, but that is fallacy, Greek does not have an "h", the fact that its not present in the Greek form says nothing about the pronunciation of the Hebrew, you can't make up alternative speculative Greek transliterations and use them to conclude that Iēsous implies a pronunciation Yeshua. [[User:Kuratowski&#39;s Ghost|Kuratowski&#39;s Ghost]] ([[User talk:Kuratowski&#39;s Ghost|talk]]) 22:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

: Related to that, the initial paragraph states that ''Yeshua''... "is thought by some scholars and religious groups to be the Hebrew or Aramaic name for Jesus." I think it's well-established and well-sourced for the hypothesis. What surprises me is that the phrase implies that it is a contested issue or minority position. If that is indeed the case, what other possibilities are there, or which groups do not advocate such a form as being the original Aramaic or Hebrew form of Jesus's name? --[[User:Wtrmute|Wtrmute]] ([[User talk:Wtrmute|talk]]) 21:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

::Yeshua is the name used for Jesus by Maimonides and anonymous redactors of the Josippon, but it is not known if this was the name used for him in the 1st century, as the article explains it could have been the full form Yehoshua or the Greek Iesous. As explained the Church fathers who discuss the matter claim that the Greek form is his original name. [[User:Kuratowski&#39;s Ghost|]] ([[User talk:Kuratowski&#39;s Ghost|talk]]) 14:17, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

===2019===
Can you please cite which Church Fathers said so and where? I agree with you, this "Yeshua" nonsense is one of the great lies ever wrought against our Lord, and the citation of the Septuagint and other Jewish writers as the basis to understand his original name is a misdirection. God said the Kingdom would be given to another people's, He gave that Kingdom to the Greeks, would it not make sense then that the Messiah would have a Greek name?  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.80.190.155|72.80.190.155]] ([[User talk:72.80.190.155#top|talk]]) 23:47, 29 January 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Yarim Ha’Am Veyokhiakh Shedvaro Vetorato Omdim==
I'm not sure, but this story about a Rabbi blurting out the word Yeshua in Kabbalistic language is interesting, and might deserve a mention if its relevancy is correctly pointed out or demonstrated. [http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=128&view=item&idx=1347] [[User:ADM|ADM]] ([[User talk:ADM|talk]]) 20:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

:You misunderstood, this is not some "Kabbalistic language". Please re-read: The Hebrew(!) sentence "Yarim Ha’Am Veyokhiakh Shedvaro Vetorato Omdim" translated simply means "He will lift the people and prove that his word and law are valid". [And from the context it is very easy to understand what it means.] As it says: "The initials [first letters of each word] spell the Hebrew name of Jesus". (And he is not talking about Christian Jesus, just to make sure.) ''-- 21:56, 23 August 2014 178.202.127.181''

==Yahshua-Yahshuah==
See [[Talk:Yahshua#Merge]] regarding a proposal to merge the articles [[Yahshuah]] and [[Yahshua]]. --[[User:AuthorityTam|AuthorityTam]] ([[User talk:AuthorityTam|talk]]) 21:25, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

== Sound sample ==

I'd love to hear the variations here spoken. Any chance we can get some sound samples on this page? -- [[User:SpareSimian|SpareSimian]] ([[User talk:SpareSimian|talk]]) 15:12, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

== Yeshu (ישו)==
There is not one single Christian source that links this pejorative hebrew spelling of Yeshua/Jesus. It is complete crap that it is in this article and I suggest that it is removed. In the interm I posted reference from printed articles showing that it is infact pejorative and biased. --[[User:Teacherbrock|Teacherbrock]] ([[User talk:Teacherbrock|talk]]) 12:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
:This article is about Yeshua, not Yeshu.  If you want to include material about the latter being perjorative, maybe the [[Yeshu]] article would be a better place.  Also, when you put in citations, use the book's name, author and page number, not the google link.  --[[User:Noleander|Noleander]] ([[User talk:Noleander|talk]]) 23:26, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
---So we can remove Yeshu from the article completely? I agree. --[[User:Teacherbrock|Teacherbrock]] ([[User talk:Teacherbrock|talk]]) 17:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
::The name [[Yeshu#Etymology| Yeshu]] is a deliberately inaccurate transcription of [[Yeshua]], for this reason I have removed it. I note it is already somewhat dubiously listed in the disambiguation page for [[Yeshua_(disambiguation)| Yeshua]], where it is described as 'a Hebrew scribal abbreviation for enemies'. [[User:Cpsoper|Cpsoper]] ([[User talk:Cpsoper|talk]]) 22:08, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

== Disambig links at top ==

Teacherbrock:  the convention in WP is to have a single disambiguation sentence/paragraph at the top, not 2 separate paragraphs.  Is that okay?  --[[User:Noleander|Noleander]] ([[User talk:Noleander|talk]]) 17:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


sure--[[User:Teacherbrock|Teacherbrock]] ([[User talk:Teacherbrock|talk]]) 20:41, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

== Article lede ==
I have I hope tweaked the lede in a good way; putting the Strong's ref into a ref box, and adding into lede [[Joshua the High Priest]] - which is the most notable sourced used of this spelling - then [[Joshua]] and [[Yeshu]] in [[Franz Delitzsch]] etc. What further [[WP:source]] can be added for the spelling in the lede? [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 01:41, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
:Way over-elaborate - Yeshua simply is the name used in Hebrew and Aramaic. List variants if you must, but there's really no need.[[User:PiCo|PiCo]] ([[User talk:PiCo|talk]]) 00:40, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

== Yahshua and Yeshua as separate names (in addition to Yahshua being abbreviated to Yeshua) ==

I propose my previous edit be reinstated, as it is factually accurate.
Whereas Yahshua is abbreviated to Yeshua, Yeshua is also a separate name.
Yahshua is a theophoric name, abbreivated to Yeshua; whereas Yeshua as a separate name is a verbal form of Shua.

The same goes for Yoseph and Yehoseph; Yoseph is a verbal form of Seph, and also (separately) an abbreviated form of the theophoric Yehoseph.
Many other examples exist. I strongly challege the undoing of my contribution.

[[User:Ben Ammi|Ben Ammi]] ([[User talk:Ben Ammi|talk]]) 01:34, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

----
"Yahshua" does not occur anywhere in the Bible or Hebrew/Aramaic literature.  Rather, there's the name Yəhōšūʕ which is abbreviated to Yēšūʕ (or Yəhōšūaʕ which is abbreviated to Yēšūaʕ in the forms of the names as they're preserved by the Masoretes, though the "a" vowels were non-syllabic, and would not have been present in the pronunciation of the Biblical period itself).  Yēšūʕ probably does contain a shortened form of the Tetragrammaton (etymologically at least), but formulas such as "Yehoshua is a theophoric name, combining Yeho and Shua"[sic] are extremely simplistic and not really accurate, and unhelpful in the context of this article.  "Yoseph" is a finite inflected verb type of Semitic name, and not derived from "Seph"[sic].  If you don't know that Semitic-language etymologies generally proceed by way of [[triliteral root]]s, then you won't get too far in this area... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 07:43, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

:Those are ''very'' unhelpful statements, you clearly miss the point. Personal opinions are irrelevant. I'm not debating pronounciations with you, as nobody knows them. Yeshua is known to be both a shortened form of Yehoshua (or as it is often spelled including on Wikipedia, Yahshua) as well as a verbal form of Shua. The same goes for Yosef, it is both a theophoric name and otherwise. You can't disagree with facts. As for trilateral roots, it has NOTHING to do with this, (you're clearly trying to show off) and is not always the case as you have to admit. In either case, Shua is trilateral (shin waw ayin). I'm quite stunned at your tone. Notice further that Yehosha (Yehoshua) doesn't have a waw, being Hoshea with a yod prefix, as is evident from the case of Hosea son of Nun getting the name Joshua (Yehosha) by simply adding a letter. '''This too underlines how Yeshua (always spelled with waw) is''' '''a separate name from Yehosh(u)a'''.
:[[User:Ben Ammi|Ben Ammi]] ([[User talk:Ben Ammi|talk]]) 14:18, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

::Dude, I'm sorry, but consonantal roots (triliteral or sometimes quadriliteral) have to do with almost everything in the Semitic languages.  There are some exceptions (such as grammatical particles, or a few basic nouns such as those for "father" or "fish" or "hand"), but in a typical older Semitic language, 100% of verb forms and 95% of noun and adjective forms (excluding foreign proper names) are based on consonantal roots.  The name Yəhōšūʕ and its variant Yēšūʕ are most commonly referred to the root ''y-š-ʕ'' which is actually the root ''w-š-ʕ'' due to a historical sound change of transforming "w" at the beginning of a word to "y" (except in the case of the conjunction).  The word šūʕ (or "šūaʕ") comes from a root ''š-w-ʕ'', which is different from ''y-š-ʕ''/''w-š-ʕ''.  Furthermore, when you state that Yehoshua = Yeho + Shua, it seems that you're thinking in terms of a type of noun compounding which doesn't really occur in the Semitic languages (except in the rather different construct+absolute genitive construction).  Also, your claim that Yəhōšūʕ is Hōšēʕ "with a yod prefix" would appear to undermine your claims elsewhere that that Yəhōšūʕ is theophoric. The basic "yod prefix" of names in Hebrew and closely-related languages is actually the imperfect third person masculine singular verb inflection, since verbs conjugated according to consonantal roots can be used as names in this languages.  So Yiṣħaq (a verb form meaning "he laughs", formed from triconsonantal root ץחק) is the name usually rendered into English as "Isaac".  No one claims that Yiṣħaq is theophoric -- [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 17:16, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

== YESHUWA ==

I believe this sentance should be added to the article; "Yeshua is spelled with a W in the [[Strong's Concordance]] as YESHUWA which has seven letters in it not just six."

Did you know the name Jesus is just the same name as Joshua? Joshua is a corruption of Yahshua and Yahshua is not the true spelling which is Yeshua. In the Hebrew there is a constinant letter there denoting the W which most people are dropping so therefore it should be YESHUWA. Note that the long form of YESHUWA is YEHOSHUWA. It is awe inspiring that the name YEHOVAH the name of the Father has the same letters as the name of the Son. YEHOSHUA just has the inset SHU and the H dropped off the end. As you know the Hebrew letter W and V are the same letter in Hebrew. In the Strong's Concordance the real root word of YEHOVAH is listed but no claims are made that it is the root of YEHOVAH. That root is HOVAH. For an explination of this see the take page of "[[Jehovah]]". [[Special:Contributions/108.81.134.196|108.81.134.196]] ([[User talk:108.81.134.196|talk]]) 23:39, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

----
:I already replied on your IPv6 talk page, as indicated in my edit summary.  Here it is again: [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 18:44, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

::I'm sorry, but [[Strong's Concordance]] is a convenient form of "Greek and Hebrew for those English-speakers who don't actually feel like learning Greek and Hebrew", and is really not a definitive source on anything.  Many of your other claims are extremely dubious at best.  Semitic-language etymologies most often proceed by way of [[triconsonantal root]]s, and if you don't understand that, then you won't get very far in this subject matter.  The idea that the name of Jesus can be derived by adding a letter "shin" in the middle of the Tetragrammaton is the [[:commons:Category:Pentagrammaton|Pentagrammaton]], which was originally invented by Renaissance occultists, and has not been accepted by Biblical or Hebrew scholarship. [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 21:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

== Requested move 13 May 2016 ==

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''moved'''. Arguments in support of moving are stronger. [[User talk:SSTflyer|SST<span style="color:DarkSlateGray">flyer</span>]] 02:48, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

----


* [[:Yeshua (name)]] → {{no redirect|Yeshua}}
* [[:Yeshua]] → {{no redirect|Yeshua (disambiguation)}}
– "Yeshua" is most popularly refers to the [[Yeshua (name)|name Yeshua]]. As you can see using the Pageview Analysis program from WMF Labs, the name of Yeshua receives {{circa}} 843 views per day, while the other variant spellings and subjects with the name of Yeshua get very low views per day, the highest being with the spelling [[Yeshu]], with {{circa}} 84 views per day. The name Yeshua is the primary topic. Therefore, per policy, the name of Yeshua should be [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC|primary topic]] and there should be a disambiguation page named Yeshua (disambiguation) with the other spelling variants and subjects with the name. '''[[User:CookieMonster755|CookieMonster755]] <sup>[[User_talk:CookieMonster755|📞]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:EmailUser/CookieMonster755|✉]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/CookieMonster755|✓]]</sup>''' 03:07, 13 May 2016 (UTC) <small>'''-- Relisted''' '''<font face="Papyrus">[[User:Anarchyte|<font color="#ff0000">Anarchyte</font>]] <font color="#000"><small>([[Special:Contributions/Anarchyte|<font color="#EB4E4F">work</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:Anarchyte|<font color="#EB4E4F">talk</font>]])</small></font></font>''' 01:27, 22 May 2016 (UTC)</small>
*'''Oppose''' leave dab at base [[Special:Contributions/2601:541:4305:C70:B464:2C6:9E5E:1603|2601:541:4305:C70:B464:2C6:9E5E:1603]] ([[User talk:2601:541:4305:C70:B464:2C6:9E5E:1603|talk]]) 18:23, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
::I have no problem of you opposing, [[Special:Contributions/2601:541:4305:C70:B464:2C6:9E5E:1603|2601:541:4305:C70:B464:2C6:9E5E:1603]], but please provide an explanation of why you oppose {{p|wink}} Cheers, '''[[User:CookieMonster755|CookieMonster755]] <sup>[[User_talk:CookieMonster755|📞]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:EmailUser/CookieMonster755|✉]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/CookieMonster755|✓]]</sup>''' 21:32, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom, the name is the primary topic here. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 21:29, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
----
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]].  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

== Requested move 22 July 2016 ==

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''WITHDRAWN''' by nominator. [[User talk:CookieMonster755|<b style="color:limegreen"><sup>Ḉɱ̍</sup></b>]] [[User:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:Gold">2nd anniv.</span>]]  19:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

----


[[:Yeshua]] → {{no redirect|Yeshua (name)}} – Proposed move: 
*Yeshua → Yeshua (name)
*Yeshua → redirect to [[Jesus]] of Nazareth

*I know, I did a requested move back in May, but now I realize it was a mistake. Though the name is primary usage of Yeshua, it should be moved back to [[Yeshua (name)]] with the name "Yeshua" redirecting to [[Jesus|Jesus of Nazareth]]. The [[Jesus (name)|name ''Jesus'']] comes from the name ''[[Yeshua (name)|Yeshua]]'', and many people, specifically [[Messianic Jews]], refer to Jesus strictly as ''Yeshua''. That is why I believe Yeshua should redirect to Jesus, and the current page be named Yeshua (name). Besides, ''[[Yeshua Ha Mashiach]]'' (Jesus the Messiah or Jesus Christ in Hebrew) already redirects to Jesus, and I believe plainly Yeshua should too because it most commonly refers to Jesus and is used strictly by Messianic Jews and [[Hebrew Roots|Hebrew Roots Christianity]]. If you do a quick [[Google search]], you will see that everything that comes up is related to Jesus (the) [[Christ]] (of Nazareth). [[User talk:CookieMonster755|<b style="color:limegreen"><sup>Ḉɱ̍</sup></b>]] [[User:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:Gold">2nd anniv.</span>]]  17:07, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom and per [[WP:CONSISTENCY]] with the [[Jesus]] / [[Jesus (name)]] article pair. [[User:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:green; font-family:Copperplate Gothic Bold,Times,serif;">juju</font>]] ([[User talk:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">hajime!</font>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">waza</font>]]) 19:41, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
::Although I '''note''' the format of this RM is broken.  Looks like you tried to force a multiple move into a single move template.  I'd recommend withdrawing and reopening below with the proper template. See [[WP:RM#Requesting multiple page moves]]. [[User:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:green; font-family:Copperplate Gothic Bold,Times,serif;">juju</font>]] ([[User talk:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">hajime!</font>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">waza</font>]]) 19:45, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
{{cot|Off-topic. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 22:59, 22 July 2016 (UTC)}}
:::{{note:}} This user was [[WP:CANVASSED]] here by the nominator. See [[User talk:Jujutsuan#Christ article, needing work]]. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 22:47, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
::::I was asked to "leave my thoughts", not to vote a particular way. [[WP:CANVASS]] says that "it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions". I want to [[WP:AGF]], but this "note" really seems to be just an underhanded way of discrediting my vote. [[User:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:green; font-family:Copperplate Gothic Bold,Times,serif;">juju</font>]] ([[User talk:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">hajime!</font>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">waza</font>]]) 22:49, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::You were brought here in a non-transparent manner by the nominator. You don't need to be asked to !vote in a particular manner to be canvassed. See [[WP:APPNOTE]] for more information. My note was simply to make the canvass transparent, not to discredit your !vote. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 22:52, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::You are the one being non-transparent.  You keep quoting policies and guidelines that undermine your own point, hoping no one actually reads them and will just be intimidated by the "WP:" in front.  This one, [[WP:APPNOTE]], says: "An editor who may wish to draw a wider range of informed, but uninvolved, editors to a discussion can place a message at any of the following: #4 On the user talk pages of concerned editors. Examples include: #4c Editors known for expertise in the field" (in this case, Christianity in general).  {{U|CookieMonster755|CookieMonster}} did nothing wrong, and you know it. I would believe your stated motive except that your rationale is 100% bogus, by the very policies you cite. [[User:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:green; font-family:Copperplate Gothic Bold,Times,serif;">juju</font>]] ([[User talk:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">hajime!</font>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">waza</font>]]) 22:58, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::::I'm simply making it transparent how you were brought to this discussion. That's it. Okay? I'm collapsing this since it's not adding anything to the discussion at hand. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 22:59, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
::::::::I'll end simply by pointing out that [[WP:STEALTH]] only considers off-wiki communication to be "non-transparent", while [[WP:APPNOTE]] considers user talk page notification perfectly transparent; so I really don't see why you felt compelled to point this out. [[User:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:green; font-family:Copperplate Gothic Bold,Times,serif;">juju</font>]] ([[User talk:Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">hajime!</font>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Jujutsuan|<font style="color:red;">waza</font>]]) 23:13, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
{{cob}}
* '''Oppose''' – The [[Yeshua]] article is very informative and mentions extensively the etymology and Hebrew usage. Moving back to a [[Jesus]] redirect would lower the encyclopedic level of this entry. Besides, in the Hebrew Bible, Yeshua refers to several figures called Joshua as well as Jesus, so I doubt that Jesus can be considered the [[WP:PTOPIC]] for "Yeshua". — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 22:35, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. What would someone searching for "Yeshua" be searching for? Since our English-speaking audience knows Jesus as "Jesus," people ''typically'' aren't going to be looking for Jesus. Instead, they're probably curious about the name in general. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 22:43, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
:*{{tq|Since our English-speaking audience knows Jesus as "Jesus," people ''typically'' aren't going to be looking for Jesus.}} Sorry, but that ain't the best argument. There are many foreign language redirects to their English counterpart, because people know the subject by both names, such as this for example. But I will leave that up to you, since you are an admin and I know you have good judgement, my friend :) I am just trying to help out with the Wikipedia community. [[User talk:CookieMonster755|<b style="color:limegreen"><sup>Ḉɱ̍</sup></b>]] [[User:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:Gold">2nd anniv.</span>]]  01:09, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per JFG. Sufficient reason to have this at the base page instead of making it a redirect. ---- [[User:Patar knight|Patar knight]] - <sup>[[User talk:Patar knight|chat]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Patar knight|contributions]]</sub> 17:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' This article exists in its own right, and is neither about just the name nor just about Jesus. The nomination is perhaps POV inspired? [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 18:00, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
:*{{u|Debresser}} POV inspired? I don't think so. If you have concerns, please leave it at ''my'' talk page. Thanks, and have a nice day! [[User talk:CookieMonster755|<b style="color:limegreen"><sup>Ḉɱ̍</sup></b>]] [[User:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:Gold">2nd anniv.</span>]]  18:41, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
----
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]].  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

==Messianic Jews use Y'shua for Jesus==
To set themselves off, Messianic Jews use 'Y'shua' instead of Jesus. This has the same pronunciation as 'Yeshua'. Using English [[Gematria]] with the key of A=1, B2 C3...Z26, Y'shua=74=Y25+S19+H8+U21+A1. G-d=7_4, Judeans=74, Jewish=74, Messiah=74, Joshua=74, Jesus=74, etc. [[Special:Contributions/2601:589:4700:2390:C129:9F7B:16E0:CDCC|2601:589:4700:2390:C129:9F7B:16E0:CDCC]] ([[User talk:2601:589:4700:2390:C129:9F7B:16E0:CDCC|talk]]) 15:19, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

== Requested move 25 January 2018 ==

<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''not moved'''. <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Page mover closure|closed by page mover]])</small> [[User:GeoffreyT2000|GeoffreyT2000]] ([[User talk:GeoffreyT2000|talk]]) 03:25, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
----

[[:Yeshua]] → {{no redirect|Yeshua (name)}} – The name ''Yeshua'' (Hebrew: ישוע‎, translit. Yēšū́aʿ) overwhelming refers to [[Jesus]], and not simply the ''name'' itself. If you do a Google Book search [https://www.google.com/search?q=Yeshua&rlz=1C1JZAP_enUS750US750&tbm=bks&ei=RCtpWuTvFMGejwPD77D4BQ&start=0&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=974&dpr=1 here]), the first 6+ page results refer specifically to Jesus, returning 45,000 results. [[Yeshua Ha Mashiach]], [[Yeshua Messiah]] and other variations already redirect to Jesus. Messianic Jews, as well as Hebrew speaking people refer to Jesus as ''Yeshua''. The current setup is inconvenient – Yeshua should redirect to Jesus per [[WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT]] with the name at [[Yeshua (name)]]. The very name ''Jesus'' originates from the name ''Yeshua''. Academic works point to the usage of "Yeshua" as referring to Jesus, "This is likely an inference from the Talmud and other Jewish usage, where Jesus is called Yeshu, and other Jews with the same name are called by the fuller name Yehoshua, 'Joshua'" (Robert E. Van Voorst, ''Jesus outside the New Testament'', 2000, ISBN 978-0-8028-4368-5 p. 124). Other academic work also supports the usage of common usage of Yeshua to refer to Jesus. <b style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC">[[User:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:blue">CookieMonster755</span>]][[User talk:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:green">✉</span>]]</b> 01:09, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per the last time this user tried the same thing. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 01:23, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
:*User? {{p|wink}} <b style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC">[[User:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:blue">CookieMonster755</span>]][[User talk:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:green">✉</span>]]</b> 04:50, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
:: @Tavix Could you be more specific, please. I see some merit to this proposal. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 09:58, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
:::I have read the previous discussion and I agree with the result of it. --[[User:Tavix| <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">'''T'''avix</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Tavix|<span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span>]])</sup> 14:35, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
::::Can ya at least give me a little credit for having some more merit? ;) Cheers, <b style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC">[[User:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:blue">CookieMonster755</span>]][[User talk:CookieMonster755|<span style="color:green">✉</span>]]</b> 01:40, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' Yeshua can be any post-exilic Joshua. The only notable time the spelling occurs in the Bible it refers to [[Yeshua the High Priest]] in Zechariah 3 etc., not to Jesus. But more oppose since anyone looking it up would presumably be wanting the name itself. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 10:55, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
::While we are here we still have the nonsense [[Yeshu]] article as a [[WP:FRINGE]] farm, duplicating but denying the sourced scholarly content in the [[Jesus in the Talmud]] article. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 10:58, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
*'''Leaning oppose'''. My thinking here is that if people want to look up Jesus, they will look up [[Jesus]]. Someone who bothers to type in Yeshua is probably looking for something else. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:gold">'''''bd2412'''''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 16:27, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' This is English Wikipedia, I highly doubt that most people will be typing Yeshua to go to such a well known figure as Jesus.<sub><small>[[User:Zxcvbnm|ZXCVBNM]] ([[User Talk:Zxcvbnm|TALK]])</small></sub> 23:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

*'''Oppose''' -- None of the occurrences in of Hebrew ''Yeshua`'' in the Bible at Ezra 2:2, 2:6, 2:36, 2:40, 3:2, 3:8, 3:9, 3:10, 3:18, 4:3, 8:33; Nehemiah 3:19, 7:7, 7:11, 7:39, 7:43, 8:7, 8:17, 9:4, 9:5, 11:26, 12:1, 12:7, 12:8, 12:10, 12:24, 12:26; 1 Chronicles 24:11; 2 Chronicles 31:15, or Ezra 5:2 refer to Jesus of Nazareth.  The Hellenistic Greek form Ιησους was the common equivalent of both Hebrew Yeshua (Jeshua) '''and also''' Hebrew Joshua, and occurs in the [[Septuagint]] and [[Josephus]] etc. referring to people other than Jesus of Nazareth (it actually even occurs in the Greek New Testament referring to people other than Jesus of Nazareth (see Acts 7:45 etc.). [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 03:03, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
----
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]].  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

== Lead too long ==

I added [[Template:Lead too long]] because the lead is too long and contains a malplaced {{tlx|Main article}}. I am not able to do it myself because of insufficient knowledge of the subject. [[User:Shhhnotsoloud|Shhhnotsoloud]] ([[User talk:Shhhnotsoloud|talk]]) 05:54, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
: Issue resolved and tag removed. Turns out a section header was removed for unclear (and bad) reason. I restored it. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 17:35, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks {{reply to|Debresser}} it makes more sense now. [[User:Shhhnotsoloud|Shhhnotsoloud]] ([[User talk:Shhhnotsoloud|talk]]) 06:34, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

== Y'shua spelling used by Messianic Judaism ==

Since the 1960s, [[Messianic Judaism]] aka [[Jews for Jesus]] uses the spelling Y'shua to distinguish itself.<ref]citation needed</ref] [[Special:Contributions/73.85.206.203|73.85.206.203]] ([[User talk:73.85.206.203|talk]]) 14:37, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
: With a source, that might be noteworthy. Even though Y'shua is '''not''' the correct spelling. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 00:27, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

== Merge ==

This page overlaps for the most part with [[Jesus (name)]]. It would be better for readers if they were combined. [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 18:10, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

:See my comment of "03:03, 30 January 2018" above. [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 16:00, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

==spelling==

I added... Y'shua is the correct way to spell Jesus in trying to get as close as possible as to how the Messiah's name was pronounced in the Aramaic of his day. Some Messianic-Jews having been spelling it as Y'shua since the 1960s [[Special:Contributions/99.169.79.198|99.169.79.198]] ([[User talk:99.169.79.198|talk]]) 15:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

:The name in the Hebrew of the Old Testament (and in the Aramaic of the Old Testametn at Ezra 5:2), is annotated with the ''tsere'' diacritic of two horizontally-arranged dots below the letter, which indicates a real [e] vowel (in some systems of transcription, it would indicate a long [e] vowel).  It is not transcribed with the ''shewa'' or schwa diacritic of two vertically-arranged dots below the letter, which would indicate a reduced vowel... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 16:06, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

== The note "literal translation" is imprecise ==

In the lede, "Joshua" is given as a literal translation. This is imprecise and misleading. Joshua is instead an English cognate. The literal translation is not "Joshua" but "to rescue" (or whatever else), as explained in the etymology section. [[User:Cameron.coombe|Cameron.coombe]] ([[User talk:Cameron.coombe|talk]]) 23:31, 8 October 2024 (UTC)