Rosvall and Voutilainen - Revision history

68.150.205.46: /* See also */

2024-03-24T05:34:07Z

Smasongarrison: Moving from Category:Assassinated activists to Category:Assassinated trade unionists Diffusing per WP:DIFFUSE and/or WP:ALLINCLUDED using Cat-a-lot

2023-12-22T20:54:11Z

Moving from Category:Assassinated activists to Category:Assassinated trade unionists Diffusing per WP:DIFFUSE and/or WP:ALLINCLUDED using Cat-a-lot

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	[[Category:Canadian people of Finnish descent]]		[[Category:Canadian people of Finnish descent]]
	[[Category:Trade unionists from Ontario]]		[[Category:Trade unionists from Ontario]]

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	[[Category:Unsolved murders in Canada]]		[[Category:Unsolved murders in Canada]]

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2022-10-09T02:46:04Z

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		⚫	{{POV\|date=January 2022}}
	{{Infobox person		{{Infobox person
	\| name = Viljo Rosvall and Janne Voutilainen		\| name = Viljo Rosvall and Janne Voutilainen
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	\| children =		\| children =
	\| relatives =		\| relatives =
	\| salary =
	\| networth =
	\| credits =		\| credits =
	\| agent =
	}}		}}

⚫	{{POV\|date=January 2022}}
	'''Viljo Rosvall''' and '''Janne Voutilainen''' were two [[Finnish Canadians\|Finnish-Canadian]] [[Trades union\|unionists]] from [[Thunder Bay]], [[Ontario]] and members of the [[Lumber Workers Industrial Union of Canada]] who mysteriously disappeared on November 18, 1929, and were later found dead. The two were on their way to a bushcamp near Onion Lake to recruit sympathetic bushworkers for a large strike which was gaining momentum west of Thunder Bay in [[Shabaqua]] and [[Shebandowan]].		'''Viljo Rosvall''' and '''Janne Voutilainen''' were two [[Finnish Canadians\|Finnish-Canadian]] [[Trades union\|unionists]] from [[Thunder Bay]], [[Ontario]] and members of the [[Lumber Workers Industrial Union of Canada]] who mysteriously disappeared on November 18, 1929, and were later found dead. The two were on their way to a bushcamp near Onion Lake to recruit sympathetic bushworkers for a large strike which was gaining momentum west of Thunder Bay in [[Shabaqua]] and [[Shebandowan]].

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	==See also==		==See also==
		⚫	{{Portal\|Organized labour}}
	*[[List of solved missing person cases: pre-2000\|List of solved missing person cases]]		*[[List of solved missing person cases: pre-2000\|List of solved missing person cases]]

	==References==		==References==
	{{Reflist}}		{{Reflist}}
⚫	{{Portal\|Organized labour}}

	==External links==		==External links==

Finnusertop: /* Continuing controversy */

2022-07-21T12:37:04Z

Continuing controversy

← Previous revision		Revision as of 12:37, 21 July 2022
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	As for the second criticism, the reliance on oral history does not address many of the facts of the case. Voutilainen was a trapper who had maintained trap lines in the Onion Lake area for several years, and thus, intimately familiar with the area.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 85 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> How could an experienced trapper with an intimate knowledge of the local environment fall through ice and drown in (at most) three and a half feet of water? The testimony of the official coroner, Dr. Crozier, also raises doubts. Not only was his testimony highly agitated and hostile,<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 91 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> but Crozier also belonged to an anti-union "citizens' group" formed around the time of the [[Winnipeg General Strike]]. Other inconsistencies include contradictory statements from the camp boss, Maki, and evidence of injuries on the bodies suggesting a struggle before their drowning.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 92 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> That violent methods were used by employers, the authorities, and/or vigilantes to disrupt or discourage union activity around this time in North America is not unusual. Numerous instances such as the lynching of [[Frank Little (unionist)\|Frank Little]], the case of [[Sacco and Vanzetti]], the [[Everett Massacre]], or the [[Estevan Riot]], to name only a few, clearly show that violent and brutal means were common place in class conflict.		As for the second criticism, the reliance on oral history does not address many of the facts of the case. Voutilainen was a trapper who had maintained trap lines in the Onion Lake area for several years, and thus, intimately familiar with the area.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 85 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> How could an experienced trapper with an intimate knowledge of the local environment fall through ice and drown in (at most) three and a half feet of water? The testimony of the official coroner, Dr. Crozier, also raises doubts. Not only was his testimony highly agitated and hostile,<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 91 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> but Crozier also belonged to an anti-union "citizens' group" formed around the time of the [[Winnipeg General Strike]]. Other inconsistencies include contradictory statements from the camp boss, Maki, and evidence of injuries on the bodies suggesting a struggle before their drowning.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 92 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> That violent methods were used by employers, the authorities, and/or vigilantes to disrupt or discourage union activity around this time in North America is not unusual. Numerous instances such as the lynching of [[Frank Little (unionist)\|Frank Little]], the case of [[Sacco and Vanzetti]], the [[Everett Massacre]], or the [[Estevan Riot]], to name only a few, clearly show that violent and brutal means were common place in class conflict.

	{{n span\|Anti-union violence including targeted physical assaults and targeted murders continue to be common and a sad truth in the City of Thunder Bay to the present day. The oral history in Thunder Bay’s Finnish community is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were murdered for their pro-union efforts, resulting in the authorities in Thunder Bay conducting a major cover up in an attempt to conceal the truth. Thunder Bay remains a hotbed of anti-union violence against pro-union individuals, resulting in Thunder Bay being labelled the Capital of Anti-Union Violence in Canada. Anti-union violence remains common to this day aided by the authorities in Thunder Bay, including the police, Ministry of Labour and corrupt unions, all of whom are involved in covering up the truth.\|date=July 2022}}		{{cn span\|Anti-union violence including targeted physical assaults and targeted murders continue to be common and a sad truth in the City of Thunder Bay to the present day. The oral history in Thunder Bay’s Finnish community is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were murdered for their pro-union efforts, resulting in the authorities in Thunder Bay conducting a major cover up in an attempt to conceal the truth. Thunder Bay remains a hotbed of anti-union violence against pro-union individuals, resulting in Thunder Bay being labelled the Capital of Anti-Union Violence in Canada. Anti-union violence remains common to this day aided by the authorities in Thunder Bay, including the police, Ministry of Labour and corrupt unions, all of whom are involved in covering up the truth.\|date=July 2022}}

	==See also==		==See also==

Finnusertop: /* Continuing controversy */ fmt cn tag

2022-07-21T12:36:53Z

Continuing controversy: fmt cn tag

← Previous revision		Revision as of 12:36, 21 July 2022
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	As for the second criticism, the reliance on oral history does not address many of the facts of the case. Voutilainen was a trapper who had maintained trap lines in the Onion Lake area for several years, and thus, intimately familiar with the area.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 85 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> How could an experienced trapper with an intimate knowledge of the local environment fall through ice and drown in (at most) three and a half feet of water? The testimony of the official coroner, Dr. Crozier, also raises doubts. Not only was his testimony highly agitated and hostile,<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 91 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> but Crozier also belonged to an anti-union "citizens' group" formed around the time of the [[Winnipeg General Strike]]. Other inconsistencies include contradictory statements from the camp boss, Maki, and evidence of injuries on the bodies suggesting a struggle before their drowning.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 92 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> That violent methods were used by employers, the authorities, and/or vigilantes to disrupt or discourage union activity around this time in North America is not unusual. Numerous instances such as the lynching of [[Frank Little (unionist)\|Frank Little]], the case of [[Sacco and Vanzetti]], the [[Everett Massacre]], or the [[Estevan Riot]], to name only a few, clearly show that violent and brutal means were common place in class conflict.		As for the second criticism, the reliance on oral history does not address many of the facts of the case. Voutilainen was a trapper who had maintained trap lines in the Onion Lake area for several years, and thus, intimately familiar with the area.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 85 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> How could an experienced trapper with an intimate knowledge of the local environment fall through ice and drown in (at most) three and a half feet of water? The testimony of the official coroner, Dr. Crozier, also raises doubts. Not only was his testimony highly agitated and hostile,<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 91 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> but Crozier also belonged to an anti-union "citizens' group" formed around the time of the [[Winnipeg General Strike]]. Other inconsistencies include contradictory statements from the camp boss, Maki, and evidence of injuries on the bodies suggesting a struggle before their drowning.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 92 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> That violent methods were used by employers, the authorities, and/or vigilantes to disrupt or discourage union activity around this time in North America is not unusual. Numerous instances such as the lynching of [[Frank Little (unionist)\|Frank Little]], the case of [[Sacco and Vanzetti]], the [[Everett Massacre]], or the [[Estevan Riot]], to name only a few, clearly show that violent and brutal means were common place in class conflict.

	Anti-union violence including targeted physical assaults and targeted murders continue to be common and a sad truth in the City of Thunder Bay to the present day. The oral history in Thunder Bay’s Finnish community is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were murdered for their pro-union efforts, resulting in the authorities in Thunder Bay conducting a major cover up in an attempt to conceal the truth. Thunder Bay remains a hotbed of anti-union violence against pro-union individuals, resulting in Thunder Bay being labelled the Capital of Anti-Union Violence in Canada. Anti-union violence remains common to this day aided by the authorities in Thunder Bay, including the police, Ministry of Labour and corrupt unions, all of whom are involved in covering up the truth. ~~[Needs citations all the way through.]~~		{{n span\|Anti-union violence including targeted physical assaults and targeted murders continue to be common and a sad truth in the City of Thunder Bay to the present day. The oral history in Thunder Bay’s Finnish community is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were murdered for their pro-union efforts, resulting in the authorities in Thunder Bay conducting a major cover up in an attempt to conceal the truth. Thunder Bay remains a hotbed of anti-union violence against pro-union individuals, resulting in Thunder Bay being labelled the Capital of Anti-Union Violence in Canada. Anti-union violence remains common to this day aided by the authorities in Thunder Bay, including the police, Ministry of Labour and corrupt unions, all of whom are involved in covering up the truth.\|date=July 2022}}

	==See also==		==See also==

2600:6C67:487F:5359:95CA:E785:36E4:91D1: /* Continuing controversy */ needs citations

2022-04-29T00:40:13Z

Continuing controversy: needs citations

← Previous revision		Revision as of 00:40, 29 April 2022
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	As for the second criticism, the reliance on oral history does not address many of the facts of the case. Voutilainen was a trapper who had maintained trap lines in the Onion Lake area for several years, and thus, intimately familiar with the area.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 85 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> How could an experienced trapper with an intimate knowledge of the local environment fall through ice and drown in (at most) three and a half feet of water? The testimony of the official coroner, Dr. Crozier, also raises doubts. Not only was his testimony highly agitated and hostile,<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 91 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> but Crozier also belonged to an anti-union "citizens' group" formed around the time of the [[Winnipeg General Strike]]. Other inconsistencies include contradictory statements from the camp boss, Maki, and evidence of injuries on the bodies suggesting a struggle before their drowning.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 92 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> That violent methods were used by employers, the authorities, and/or vigilantes to disrupt or discourage union activity around this time in North America is not unusual. Numerous instances such as the lynching of [[Frank Little (unionist)\|Frank Little]], the case of [[Sacco and Vanzetti]], the [[Everett Massacre]], or the [[Estevan Riot]], to name only a few, clearly show that violent and brutal means were common place in class conflict.		As for the second criticism, the reliance on oral history does not address many of the facts of the case. Voutilainen was a trapper who had maintained trap lines in the Onion Lake area for several years, and thus, intimately familiar with the area.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 85 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> How could an experienced trapper with an intimate knowledge of the local environment fall through ice and drown in (at most) three and a half feet of water? The testimony of the official coroner, Dr. Crozier, also raises doubts. Not only was his testimony highly agitated and hostile,<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 91 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> but Crozier also belonged to an anti-union "citizens' group" formed around the time of the [[Winnipeg General Strike]]. Other inconsistencies include contradictory statements from the camp boss, Maki, and evidence of injuries on the bodies suggesting a struggle before their drowning.<ref>[[Satu Repo\|S. Repo]], "Rosvall and Voutilainen: Two Union Men Who Never Died", Labour/Le Travail Autumn/Spring 1981/82. Volume 8/9, pg. 92 http://www.lltjournal.ca/index.php/llt/article/viewPDFInterstitial/2634/3037</ref> That violent methods were used by employers, the authorities, and/or vigilantes to disrupt or discourage union activity around this time in North America is not unusual. Numerous instances such as the lynching of [[Frank Little (unionist)\|Frank Little]], the case of [[Sacco and Vanzetti]], the [[Everett Massacre]], or the [[Estevan Riot]], to name only a few, clearly show that violent and brutal means were common place in class conflict.

	Anti-union violence including targeted physical assaults and targeted murders continue to be common and a sad truth in the City of Thunder Bay to the present day. The oral history in Thunder Bay’s Finnish community is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were murdered for their pro-union efforts, resulting in the authorities in Thunder Bay conducting a major cover up in an attempt to conceal the truth. Thunder Bay remains a hotbed of anti-union violence against pro-union individuals, resulting in Thunder Bay being labelled the Capital of Anti-Union Violence in Canada. Anti-union violence remains common to this day aided by the authorities in Thunder Bay, including the police, Ministry of Labour and corrupt unions, all of whom are involved in covering up the truth.		Anti-union violence including targeted physical assaults and targeted murders continue to be common and a sad truth in the City of Thunder Bay to the present day. The oral history in Thunder Bay’s Finnish community is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were murdered for their pro-union efforts, resulting in the authorities in Thunder Bay conducting a major cover up in an attempt to conceal the truth. Thunder Bay remains a hotbed of anti-union violence against pro-union individuals, resulting in Thunder Bay being labelled the Capital of Anti-Union Violence in Canada. Anti-union violence remains common to this day aided by the authorities in Thunder Bay, including the police, Ministry of Labour and corrupt unions, all of whom are involved in covering up the truth. [Needs citations all the way through.]

	==See also==		==See also==

AnomieBOT: Dating maintenance tags: {{Original research section}}

2022-01-23T02:50:36Z

Dating maintenance tags: {{Original research section}}

← Previous revision		Revision as of 02:50, 23 January 2022
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	==Continuing controversy==		==Continuing controversy==
	{{Original research section\|reason=Unsubstantiated claims about Thunder Bay.}}		{{Original research section\|reason=Unsubstantiated claims about Thunder Bay.\|date=January 2022}}
	Historian [[Peter Raffo]] has carefully analyzed the oral and written evidence, and concluded, "According to the contemporary historical record, the likelihood is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were not murdered. The oral record - the myth - does not stand up well to close examination. Practically none of its details are sustained by the facts of the case... Not martyrs so much as tragic and brave victims."<ref>P. Raffo, "Oral Witness versus Documentary Evidence ; the case of Rosvall and Voutilianen," Thunder Bay Historical Museum Society ''Papers and Records'', XXIX (2001), 3-34.</ref>		Historian [[Peter Raffo]] has carefully analyzed the oral and written evidence, and concluded, "According to the contemporary historical record, the likelihood is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were not murdered. The oral record - the myth - does not stand up well to close examination. Practically none of its details are sustained by the facts of the case... Not martyrs so much as tragic and brave victims."<ref>P. Raffo, "Oral Witness versus Documentary Evidence ; the case of Rosvall and Voutilianen," Thunder Bay Historical Museum Society ''Papers and Records'', XXIX (2001), 3-34.</ref>

204.116.251.194 at 00:49, 23 January 2022

2022-01-23T00:49:44Z

← Previous revision		Revision as of 00:49, 23 January 2022
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	}}		}}

		⚫	{{POV\|date=January 2022}}
	'''Viljo Rosvall''' and '''Janne Voutilainen''' were two [[Finnish Canadians\|Finnish-Canadian]] [[Trades union\|unionists]] from [[Thunder Bay]], [[Ontario]] and members of the [[Lumber Workers Industrial Union of Canada]] who mysteriously disappeared on November 18, 1929, and were later found dead. The two were on their way to a bushcamp near Onion Lake to recruit sympathetic bushworkers for a large strike which was gaining momentum west of Thunder Bay in [[Shabaqua]] and [[Shebandowan]].		'''Viljo Rosvall''' and '''Janne Voutilainen''' were two [[Finnish Canadians\|Finnish-Canadian]] [[Trades union\|unionists]] from [[Thunder Bay]], [[Ontario]] and members of the [[Lumber Workers Industrial Union of Canada]] who mysteriously disappeared on November 18, 1929, and were later found dead. The two were on their way to a bushcamp near Onion Lake to recruit sympathetic bushworkers for a large strike which was gaining momentum west of Thunder Bay in [[Shabaqua]] and [[Shebandowan]].

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	==Continuing controversy==		==Continuing controversy==
	{{Original research section\|reason=Unsubstantiated claims about Thunder Bay.}}		{{Original research section\|reason=Unsubstantiated claims about Thunder Bay.}}
⚫	{{POV ~~section~~\|date=January 2022}}
	Historian [[Peter Raffo]] has carefully analyzed the oral and written evidence, and concluded, "According to the contemporary historical record, the likelihood is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were not murdered. The oral record - the myth - does not stand up well to close examination. Practically none of its details are sustained by the facts of the case... Not martyrs so much as tragic and brave victims."<ref>P. Raffo, "Oral Witness versus Documentary Evidence ; the case of Rosvall and Voutilianen," Thunder Bay Historical Museum Society ''Papers and Records'', XXIX (2001), 3-34.</ref>		Historian [[Peter Raffo]] has carefully analyzed the oral and written evidence, and concluded, "According to the contemporary historical record, the likelihood is that Rosvall and Voutilainen were not murdered. The oral record - the myth - does not stand up well to close examination. Practically none of its details are sustained by the facts of the case... Not martyrs so much as tragic and brave victims."<ref>P. Raffo, "Oral Witness versus Documentary Evidence ; the case of Rosvall and Voutilianen," Thunder Bay Historical Museum Society ''Papers and Records'', XXIX (2001), 3-34.</ref>

← Previous revision		Revision as of 05:34, 24 March 2024
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	{{Portal\|Organized labour}}		{{Portal\|Organized labour}}
	*[[List of solved missing person cases: pre-2000\|List of solved missing person cases]]		*[[List of solved missing person cases: pre-2000\|List of solved missing person cases]]
			*[[Timeline of labour issues and events in Canada]]

	==References==		==References==