Talk:List of The Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers characters and Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 June 15: Difference between pages

June 15

Category:Jazz musicians of New Orleans

Suggest merge: Template:Lc1 to Category:Musicians of New Orleans and Category:American jazz musicians.

Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization as WP:OCAT#Trivial intersection of location and genre. The musicians wikiproject categorizes musicians by nationality, genre and instrument, but strongly discourages categorizing anything more specific than nationality by genre or instrument. See, for example, earlier discussion on New York rappers (including various subcategories), California Hardcore musical groups, and Rappers from Florida. It's true that New Orleans is sometimes considered the "birthplace of Jazz", but as discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jazz#Proposed Category:New Orleans jazz musicians, this does not mean that every jazz musician in New Orleans contributed to that birth (most weren't even born themselves at the time). I suggested a more targetted list, but since the category was created anyway, I'm bringing it here for wider debate. Xtifr _tälk 02:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I will oppose such an action in every way that I can. [[Category:Musicians of New Orleans]] is a general category for any and all musicians. New Orleans is the cradle of jazz music and as such deserves a catagory entirely unto itself. New Orleans is not "sometimes considered the birthplace of jazz", it is the birthplace of jazz. To not have a category exclusively devoted unto it would surely be a crime. (Mind meal 02:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC))

As I said in the discussion at the Jazz Wikiproject, those are all great arguments for adding information about the history of Jazz to articles and for making lists. It is not a justification for creating overspecialized categories and impeding navigation. See the discussion about New York rappers for some of the reasons why we don't categorize by both genre and state or city. There's nothing wrong with the information; but a category is simply the wrong way to present that information. I advised you to review Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes for some insight into how to set this up properly, but you seem to be fixated on (mis)using the category system. I'm sympathetic to your views, but this violates all relevant guidelines and precedents, and is absolutely not necessary, as there are a wealth of great alternatives. Xtifr _tälk 03:54, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree with your entire premise. First of all, categories are the easiest way for users (new ones especially) to tag their articles. Series boxes are seldom added to articles, because most people aren't even aware of how to go about doing that. A list isn't exactly a bad idea, but they do not grow at a fast rate. Also, users seldom add a "See also" heading with, ie. [[Jazz musicians of New Orleans]]. It would seem to me you are trying to make it hard for users to find information efficiantly. I find it absolutely necessary, but that doesn't matter. What I feel is absolutely necessary or not isn't the point here. This isn't a generic category like "New York rappers", because New York cannot be said to be the birthplace of rap music. This category would seem to be a blatant example of the exception to the rule, as any historian will tell you that New Orleans is at once the most important area concerning jazz music. It continues to be today. Without New Orleans, there would not BE jazz music. This is a silly contest, though I know you have done so in good faith. It is funny you speak of "impeding navigation", because I find this to accelerate navigation. How does this category impede navigation? Explain that.(Mind meal 04:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC))

I will also state that this category does not, in my opinion, violate intersection by location. I say this because in the guideline it states "However, geographical boundaries are useful for dividing items into regions that are directly related to the items' characteristics." New Orleans jazz musicians wear their heritage like a badge of honor. In this case the location is directly realted to the item: jazz musicians, because as I stated it is the birthplace of jazz music. That is a fact that actually cannot be contested. It all started in the brothels of New Orleans by black musicians as a way to entertain the white customers. I mean think of it. When I say New Orleans, you think jazz music. They are critically linked. (Mind meal 04:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC))