User talk:Davidruben: Difference between revisions

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Drugbox automatically adding pregnancy category scheme

Hi there David. Una Smith recently posted at the Drugbox talk page suggesting that a category scheme to classify drugs by pregnancy category be created. I think it's an excellent idea, and was wondering whether you could rig the template so that articles are automatically added to cats according to the value of | pregnancy_AU =  and | pregnancy_US = , sort of like articles with no structure image are added to Category:Drug pages needing a structure drawing. Do you think it's feasible? Best, Fvasconcellos (t·c) 16:09, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Speen: to have a pneumococcal vaccination or not

I had my spleen removed at the age 14 through an accident. I am now 50 yeras old and have had 2 pneumococcal vaccinations over the past 10 years (one every five years) as my current GP advised this. However, I am fit and healthy and would like to know if there are any long term effects of (a) not having a spleen and (b) not having pneumococcal vaccinations, as opinions appear to differ amongst GPs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.145.242.168 (talk) 14:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Can't go giving specific medical advice here at Wikipedia. Look at Asplenia article and its links to official guidelines. As for duration of risk, a 1997 paper A study of 42 episodes of overwhelming post-splenectomy infection: Is current guidance for asplenic individuals being followed? observed "Patients of all ages were affected with OPSI occurring up to 59 years after splenectomy. A mortality rate of 45% was seen. Pneumococcal infection caused at least 37 of 42 episodes, but only 12 patients had received pneumococcal vaccine. " and "Much more needs to be done to ensure that asplenic patients are warned of the risks of infection, and given at least pneumococcal vaccine. The role of antibiotics for either continual prophylaxis or as a reserve supply for self-prescription at appropriate times also needs greater discussion."

I can only really then point you in the direction of some UK (given I'm British) Department of Health and Trust-produced infomation sheets:

• Splenectomy: Information for patients and patient card (Department of Health webpage to download factsheet)
• GUIDELINES FOR MANAGEMENT OF ASPLENIC PATIENTS (PDF - one hospital trust's guidelines)
• Are there guidelines for penicillin prophylaxis in asplenic patients? (NHS for Wales FAQ 2001 which discusses antibiotics and vaccinations)

Take care, David Ruben ^Talk 14:03, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Ban

Hi David, Just wondering, banning users from specific articles : does that usually work well? Is it common practice to use it?

Ciao, JacobH (talk) 15:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

As a community project, it is for general editors to indicate when another editor is being disruptive to the collaborative effort. As such (sensible) consensus on a talk page should guide other editors, and acting against that is therefore de facto disruptive and is well covered by policies on disruption WP:Block and WP:3RR which notes even one revert may be disruptive and warrant a block. The situation here is certainly not the commonly encountered disruption - he is articulate, knowledgeable in specialised areas and able reference, wikimarkup etc. Indeed 3RR itself is not (as far as I am aware) ever directly approached now. WP:COI is really the issue here, and where edits are self-promoting or cannot be respected as having impartial NPOV, then an editor continuing to so edit is disruptive. WP:AGF of course requires there to be dialogue and where this fails to achieve a satisfactory outcome then warning of being blocked. The community instruction to desist from further article editing is what is meant by a community ban (confusingly WP:Banned links to Wikipedia:Community sanction noticeboard which has since been closed down in favour of the one area of WP:AN/I - rightly as it acted often with undue haste in blocking). So following WP:COI/N discussion and the talk page, I have merely made an assessment (as a admin) of community consensus/decision and so notified GB (wikipedia is not a democracy and GB must work within this). The view at WP:COI/N is for progressive blocks if COI not heeded.

Does it usually work - no idea, but it seems the right approach (vs. just seeming to block as a punishment - which is not permitted). Will it work here ? - no idea but it is GB last chance to stop ignoring the views of other editors and respect consensus building.

Is it common practice ? - I suspect not, and most admins at this point would conclude he is already sufficiently familiar with policies and had enough previous warnings to just step in and have blocked him for a few days. I'm trying to be nice here, but as I said really up to GB to take stock.

PS remember do not aggravate the situation here yourself, as baiting is unfair, risks subsequent action having a broader sweep and include you in collateral actions, or risk being seen as mitigation. Lets give GB some space to reflect and decide how he wishes to work within the English Wikipedia guideline & policies and with its community of editors... David Ruben ^Talk 17:18, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

This is all very well, but show me where I acted against consensus on Vereniging Basisinkomen, or anywhere else for that matter. Guido den Broeder (talk) 20:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not familiar either with the procedures on the English wikipedia, I'll need my space as well. Thanks for your extensive reaction, I'm more or less interested in the procedures because we've got similar problems on the Dutch wikipedia as well (in general). The discussion of blocking, progressive blocks and edit wars is a never ending story. Any alternatives, suchs as banning users from certain articles, may be worth evaluating for the Dutch wikipedia. Regards, JacobH (talk) 11:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The possibility of banning users from certain articles or areas exists on nl:Wikipedia and has been applied on various occasions, sometimes as an agreement between users. Guido den Broeder (talk) 11:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Request for arbitration

This is to inform you that I have filed a request for arbitration on your ruling, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Request_to_lift_article_ban. Guido den Broeder (talk) 16:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Robotje

David, could you explain to user:Robotje that the talk page of Vereniging Basisinkomen is not the place to discuss perceived events on nl:Wikipedia? Thanks, Guido den Broeder (talk) 15:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

 Done - talk page clearly not place to discuss an editor’s invoking of administrative action in another Wikipedia (see also WP:VPP#Interwiki allowable evidence of user behaviour - somewhat against what I expected, misdemenas elsewhere may be more freely noted where appropriate) David Ruben ^Talk 23:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Guido den Broeder and Dutch Wikipedians

Hi David. I see from the above, COI/N, and the arbitration page that you are now attempting to resolve the issues around Guido den Broeder. My concern here is that some editors seem to have followed him from the Dutch Wikipedia with the express intent of removing the stuff he adds here. I think they have now realised that was not the best approach, and are now trying to work within the en-wiki community instead, but could you possibly give your opinion on that? I've been trying to handle things at Talk:Melody Amber chess tournament and that seems OK now. It is difficult to balance between working with people who want to edit on areas they are most interested in and knowledgeable about, and those who might be veering towards a COI. Sometimes it is better to work with them than ban them from articles. Carcharoth (talk) 07:58, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

• Hi David, I see your post. It occurred to me there is some things you may not be aware of. Please check this user. User:LucianoHdk and contributions Special:Contributions/LucianoHdk especially this and then Vereniging Basisinkomen Afd. It appears possible to me this is a user from the Dutch Wiki come to English wiki, not in a constructive way but more to antagonise Guido. SunCreator (talk) 22:41, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

You mentioned, and then were uncertain, about the WP:VPP#Interwiki allowable evidence of user behaviour thread. I had assumed cross mention was taboo if not frowned upon, but seemingly not, however I have acted on behalf of GDB that discussion of his actions re RFARs on Dutch Wikipedia are certainly inappropriate in an article talk-space. However, LucianoHdk made one talk page comment re COI adding links to ones own material and removed that once. Single AfD pointing out that Dutch Wikipedia does not include the organisation is hardly in itself antagonistic - and whilst interesting it was a weak argument that a topic is not-notable - Dutch Wikipedia may just have a gapping hole waiting to be filled ! Of course if Dutch wikipedia had had their own AfD and decided that the group was not notable, then I think it would be quite hard to justify why a foreign (aka Englkish) wikipdia finds the topic notable when only sources are in Dutch and the organisation has failed to raise itself above the horizon for Dutch editors. Now were LucianoHdk clearly identifyable as an editor at Dutch Wikipedia who has been incivil to GDB, or previoulsy cautioned not to wikistalk there, then presence/actions here in English Wikipedia would warrent at least an AGF warning. Difficult, not least because I don't speak Dutch and can't go investigating through Dutch Wikipedia :-) Having other uninvolved editor watch over these articles should help moderate the various parties and prevent edit warring - so thank you :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:31, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't speak Dutch either, which is saving me some time, as otherwise I might go and investigate what is going on the Dutch wiki. If this Vereniging Basisinkomen article was deleted on the Dutch wiki my initial thought would be that it was falsely deleted, i.e that the AFD was overrun with individuals intent on removing it for non valid wiki reasons. However, I guess as you said that didn't happen and I can't deeply investigate either. On the English wiki the activities of some who choose delete in the Afd look suspicious. User talk:GijsvdL(note talk page is all about GDB and his topics), User talk:Migdejong(few contributions and only one AFD the Vereniging Basisinkomen Afd plus comments on Chronic fatigue syndrome another one of GDB few topics of interest - those two topics have nothing in common except GDB), and the already cited Special:Contributions/LucianoHdk. SunCreator (talk) 00:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, GDB has edited Vereniging Basisinkomen today. I've unwatched the page 'cause frankly I don't care about it. I don't know what's extant or going on about potential COI issues. I still think that as treasurer, he shouldn't be editing the page. WLU (talk) 22:16, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It's a change of 'guaranteed minimum income' to 'basic income' which is proposed on the talk page without any objections. I shall keep the page on my watchlist for a while. SunCreator (talk) 23:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Please note that user:Fram has removed the external link to the Vereniging Basisinkomen from both Guaranteed minimum income and Basic income, claiming that the site has no English content (which is untrue), while leaving another, fully non-English site be. Guido den Broeder (talk) 07:29, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Does NOT appear any English content on the homepage, so can understand why it's been removed. Where is the English content found on the site please? SunCreator (talk) 13:23, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Specifically, at Studie/FRISBI, the basic income simulator which is unique material and entirely in English. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Where specifically please, with URL? All I found was this mainly in dutch. SunCreator (talk) 19:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Click on the download link. :-) Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but if you are expecting anyone to download anything and count that as English then you are mistaken. SunCreator (talk) 19:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

You've lost me here. Guido den Broeder (talk) 20:02, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

You have been saying that this has English content and therefore it's removal as not being English was incorrect but if the best you can come up with is a download and not web content then I agree with user:Fram that it's not English and should at best be said that it's an other language site or otherwise removed from the links. SunCreator (talk) 22:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, going with the flow: language indicated. Only listed on Basic income; external links on Guaranteed minimum income have been reduced to a single one. Guido den Broeder (talk) 00:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

(undent)Non-english sources are allowable. Non-english external links are not a good idea. BI and GMI should both have the BIEN websites, which is international and has English content, but a link to a site that is in dutch and only relevant to one country (and is tenuously notable and relevant anyway - the AFD outcome was no consensus, not keep) is not a good option. Fram's removal was a very good idea and the link should be removed from all pages except the VBI. WLU (talk) 15:20, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The content of the Nieuwsbrief is often enough non-local. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

RE: Template:Drugs for obstructive airway diseases

Hello. Could you please edit Template:Drugs for obstructive airway diseases, because I do not know which group of beta₂-adrenergic agonists which indacaterol should belong. Do you know where it should belong? :-) Carlo Banez (talk) 12:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

 Done Easy enough to look up at PubMed- ultra LABA David Ruben ^Talk 22:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

AN/I review

As the review got archived after several admins critisized your approach, I assume that the article ban is off. Guido den Broeder (talk) 07:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Guido den Broeder

Hello, some discussions and actions you were involved in are used as evidence in the RfC/U I started. Fram (talk) 12:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Robotje

David, could you take a look at this edit by user:Robotje, who seems intent on continuing to harass me? [1] Note that by removing the source, he violates my attribution rights. Guido den Broeder (talk) 15:50, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

A heads-up, GDB has put up an unblock request and seems to think that you have indicated somewhere one of his reverts was for vandalism, not over content. I don't know if you want to disabuse him of this notion or not, but you should probably know about it. WLU (talk) 10:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Mentoring @ Dutch Wikipedia

In respons to your question asked on Oscars talkpage, the answer is yes that Guido is being mentored on the Dutch Wikipedia. This mentoring (in Dutch) can be found here, while a summary of the decisions made by the mentor can be found here. Mentoring Guido was instated after this decision by the Dutch Arbitration Committee. Regards Silver Spoon 05:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I am no longer active on nl:Wikipedia. Guido den Broeder (talk) 08:25, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

double mentoring: why not

i am guido's mentor at nl.wikipedia since sep'07. he has in fact been trying his best time and again to avoid being mentored in different ways, his current attempt being a request for a permanent ban which he supposes whould cancel the mentoring. you said that mentoring on 2 projects wouldn't make sense, but i fail to see see why: would you perhaps suppose he be mentored by one person on 2 projects? since guido now states he is "no longer active on nl:Wikipedia" (see just above here) (check his contribs on nl), again: why not? good luck and all the best, oscar 08:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Clarification: User:Oscar believes that a 'mentor' can decide to keep that position against the wishes of the user, apparently even after an account has been closed(!), and regardless of abundant criticism from other users. Here, as well as on nl:Wikipedia, I find that unacceptable. Guido den Broeder (talk) 09:08, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the idea is that one mentors the person, not the account... Tdevries (talk) 09:54, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Policies across projects can vary, so mentoring by the same person on two wikis isn't necessarily the best idea; I think an admin mentor would be best due to the implied knowledge of policies and ability to negotiate disagreements. WLU (talk) 14:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

@Tdevries: I think the "mentor" is as guilty of COI as Guido. The only difference is that the person behind the account of the "mentor" may not be named. You speak Dutch, search nl:Wikipedia:Relevantie for which group of teachers at tertiary education are deemed relevant per se and find out which account added that clause (as a hint: you protected the subpage with that selfpromotion). Erik Warmelink (talk) 00:18, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry can't read Dutch at all (although can guess at a lot of the words which can be similar to English). Babel Fish (website) translation just moved over from Altavista to Yahoo and temporarily seems unable handle that page :-( David Ruben ^Talk 00:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

In short (and I have to be short, unless I get blocked by "accident" by oscar again, or by his friends from IRC because I violated oscars privacy), oscars profession in real life is the only teaching job which makes the holder of that job "relevant" for nl.wikipedia. Oscar added that clause, Tdevries protected the page. Oscar & friends managed to drive Guido from nl.wiki (in my opinion because anyone with a cum laude for his/her thesis is a threat to the pokemon, soccer and television crowd). That was not enough, so the mob started vandalising Melody Amber chess tournament on en.wiki, because some of the tournement books were written by Guido (and someone on wikipedia who has written books and a thesis instead of making a fancy signature is awfully threatening to their self-esteem). Well, that's not short at all. I guess I will spend less time on nl.wiki. Erik Warmelink (talk) 01:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Erik Warmelink seems to suggest that I protected the relevance-page on nl.wiki because of the addition of Oscar to "support" Oscar in his "self promotion". The edithistory of the page clearly shows otherwise, the only reason I protected the page was because of an ongoing editwar. No more, no less. Furthermore, I am quite surprised to find a comment on one of my actions on nl.wikipedia on the talkpage of someone else on a different project. If you (Erik) have comments about my actions as a sysop @ nl.wikipedia, please use my talkpage on that particular project and/or the administrators notice board overthere and/or the arbcom overthere in case you might find the reaction to your comment/question/request (which you never made before, anywhere, in this case!) unsatisfactionary.

The only reason for my small comment here about "the user, not the account" was that Guido seems to have the opinion that the mentorate only applies to a certain account he is using and does not apply if he uses another account. This seems a bit strange to me, it is more likely that a mentorate (and not Guido's in particular) applies to the person, whatever account he is using. And it would not be unlogical and/or impossible IMHO to extend a mentorate to other Wikimedia projects aswell. But if a mentorate is needed here,, on this project, is entirely the decission of the en.wikipedia community or "the powers that be" overhere. Tdevries (talk) 18:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I have only one account at each Wikipedia. Please don't try to think for me, thanks. Guido den Broeder (talk) 21:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Aphthous ulcers

Hi David,

I ended up re-writing the treatment section, thus, which deleted your reference to UK treatment options. I basically removed everything that didn't have a source, unfortunately that included the text you inserted here. My WP:PROVEIT approach tends to be a bit scorched earth, I think most of the information is still there in a more general form. I'll be adding a bit of text back, but after that edit I think I'm done; feel free to re-insert. I ended up with an edit conflict and over-wrote (worst collaborator ever!), I don't know if you prefer my more generic version, or your more specific one. Please feel free to expand if you'd like. WLU (talk) 17:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm done, earth is scorched, feel free to replace. WLU (talk) 17:22, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

No problem, good tidy up. Readded topical steroids and local anaesthetics with refs provided after the "spur" of your WP:PROVEIT :-) I've copied your posting and a fuller reply than this to Talk:Aphthous ulcer David Ruben ^Talk 03:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hyperemesis gravidarum

Well, now, I'd think the need for continuing IV hydration and feeding would depend on whether you were really treating HG or bulimia, among other things. A pregnant woman who is sticking her fingers down her throat isn't exactly going to tell the world she's doing that, or necessarily even be in a mental state to understand that the vomiting is self-manufactured. See PMID 14996962 for such a case study. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the article link - interesting case and a reminder to think more widely than the initial apparently "obvious" diagnosis, especially in pregnancy. However that case report would seem to be an example of why a patient should not be sent home with a PICC line for home treatment - she would have malnourished herself/baby to a critical state if she had not remained on the ward and her bulimia observed... hopefully suitable sources can be found for those fact-tags :-)David Ruben ^Talk 18:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

If you go to full nutrition by PICC line, you can't really vomit up all the food and water, because it was never in your stomach to begin with. A PICC line at home therefore seems like a reasonable stopgap measure when you are worried about malnutrition, even if it does nothing to address the underlying problem. It would certainly be better than doing nothing for the patient who refuses to remain in hospital. In a few cases, it might even be "curative": Consider self-induced vomiting prompted by subjective dysphagia, and the potentially beneficial effect of eliminating the need to swallow anything at all.

But I fully agree that it would be best to discover and treat the specific problem. (Now back to the grindstone...) WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Xtremly Sorry David

I never intented so it might be done by mistake.I apologise once again But I dont know why the hell I had unknowingly removed some other's comment. With absolete regards to you. Pls forgive me --203.194.98.177 (talk) 18:51, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

User:Beetstra

David, could you pay some attention to the posts of user:Beetstra who is presently targeting me both here [2] and on meta [3], insinuating that I am the same person as some Scandinavian account? Thanks, Guido den Broeder (talk) 12:02, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, GDB, please discuss the points/edits, and not the editor... I see though you've (subsequetly) had a perfectly sensible discussion on wikimedia and Beetstra has released some of the links (if I understand correctly).

re COI/N, comments on past links and COI reached a pause on RfC, and I agree probably same now approapriate for COI/N (unless there should be any future concerns). "If a week is a long time in politics, what is a month?" and so edits by early April now of far less importance than future contributions :-) David Ruben ^Talk 18:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh dear

Thanks for expanding on my brief comment here. I wasn't sure I trusted myself to say anything more involved as it would have contained an unprodcutive degree of sarcasm and incivility. But that's what being part of the "medical mafia" does to you. :) MastCell ^Talk 19:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

User: Daharja re sodium valproate edit

Hi David,

I'm new to this talk business so please forgive any incorrect usage of the forum.

I believe that the section "safety in pregnancy" is warranted on the sodium valproate wiki page. Wikipedia is designed to provide not just medical info, but info pertinent to all issues regarding to the subject in question - in this case, sodium valproate.

I also speak from experience that wikipedia is often one of the only places that a layperson can go to get information easily that may not come directly from the medical fraternity. Although it does contain biases and inconsistencies, it's generall a good and corerct source. I use wikipedia for a whole range of subjects, and find it is generally correct.

It could be the case that the information on the sodium valproate case could alert a woman to risks associated with being on the drug during pregnancy. The standard information given from neurologists (at least in Australia, where I hail from), is that there are no known risks associated with autism. This is the information that is given to all women contemplating pregnancy, and was the information given to me. I now have an autistic son. Had I known that risks were associated with this drug (risks that are now confirmed by the Australian Epilepsy Pregnancy Database, but still not told to women considering pregnancy and that are not listed in the inserts on the drug packaging), I would not have used epilim during pregnancy.

There is the possibility that something as simple as Wikipedia could make a difference to a woman's choice of anti-convulsant medication. A woman may trust her heurologist when he says epilim is fine, but just check the net to be sure. Providing the info that there is a class action involving the drug on the wiki page about the drug is relevant, and belongs there. It may just prevent another autism case as well.

Thus I believe that to remove the information is to remove valuable, relevant and appropriate information. I have therefore reinstated the information regarding the class action.

Regards,

Daharja

Thanks, although I disagree. I've copied your posting and added a full reply to Talk:Sodium valproate#News about action taken against this drug in UK (I try and follow WP:1RR). David Ruben ^Talk 03:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi David,

Thanks,

Cheers,

Daharja. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daharja (talk • contribs) 04:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

More here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Whilst I would agree that the comment at Autism#Causes about affect of many (?all) teratogens having effect in 1st 12 weeks is a suitable catch-all, given that this possible cause is a tiny minority compared to the overall number of cases of autism, I am tempted to suggest some mention of a few illustrative example worst-offending as not being unfair. A big however though, teratogen is linked in that sentance and Teratogen#Teratogenic agents lists out a very large number of agents (medications and otherwise) and it would need a reliable secondary source to suggest what might be the most improtant of these (autism article would seem to suggest this not known) - so adding just valproic acid might not be best example and undue weight to so suggest. Therefore I'ld agree leave it as it now is :-) David Ruben ^Talk 14:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Repeat case

Could you please look at this: [4] . This user was very generous with these links before: User_talk:68.35.21.191. These links are not bad, leave them or remove? --VanBurenen (talk) 10:20, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for heads up - there is generosity of linking and then again outright persisting spamming which is disruptive to article building (on basis WP:NOT#NOTLINK for external links). Linking to homepage for a clinic is spamming. Janet Travell is mentioned in the article and citations suitably given. That some clinic (MyoRehab in link www.aims-llc.org/ claims to be a national institute, whilst in www.myorehab.net/articles/article-archive.htm states "a treatment center") mentions her as basis for their technique, does not make the home page an expansion on the topic of trigger points itself. Finally given the same IP's past repeated horrendous spamming of the link across multiple articles, addition of the same link back into this article is the action of a single-purpose or COI IP and seems grounds to revert and reblock. If the IP were to discuss their edit, rather than soley add external links to wikipedia, then a dialogue might be started. Similarly if another editor wishes to reinsert the links then review of the link under WP:EL (which I feel they fail) might be had. David Ruben ^Talk 00:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I've requested the urls be blocked by User talk:XLinkBot/RevertList. David Ruben ^Talk 01:06, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

And they are back again [5]. I reverted this time. --VanBurenen (talk) 17:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - as sockpuppet or at least meatpuppet (which counts as same thing), I've indef blocked them too and I'll seek perminant block of web addresses as multiple new and old sockpuppet accounts being used for this.David Ruben ^Talk 01:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

 Done Both web links now blocked from wikipedia David Ruben ^Talk 03:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Anti-diabetic drug references

Hi there. Arcadian removed two references that weren't tied to the text, but they were actually there to support the article's general content (i.e. no specific statement). You're absolutely right about the section formatting—I didn't notice the nested headings. I'll go reformat them per Wikipedia:CS#Maintaining a "References" section in addition to "Notes" :) Thanks for the message, Fvasconcellos (t·c) 18:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Spam-blacklisting

I've moved it to MediaWiki:Spam-blacklisting fyi. cheers--Hu12 (talk) 10:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Image:DH thymus.jpg listed for deletion

David- I've removed the images with the watermarks. I agree they clouded the image from the view I wanted to share on Wiki. I will repost the images without the watermark, but probably not on as many pages. Sorry for the mistake. --LearnAnatomy (talk) 06:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow, many thanks for so swift and positive response, IfD proposal withdrawn :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Guido den Broeder

There's no reason to protect that talk page simply because he cleared all messages once. Please unprotect it. -- Ned Scott 03:36, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for request that single clearing once is insufficient reason to protect, I'm persuaded by you & your request and I shall unprotect and trust to his leaving the sanction notices for the remaining 5+ days of his block. David Ruben ^Talk 03:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, and I hope he uses good judgment and leaves them there as well. I'll try to keep an eye on it. -- Ned Scott 04:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I did not know that such a rule existed. It's not on the template; where can I find it? Guido den Broeder (talk) 23:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Users are of course free to archive old material from their talk pages, or remove sanction notices which nolonger apply; as you have now done :-) However, as I understand it, noticies should generally remain in place for the duration of a block. David Ruben ^Talk 01:07, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Please do not enforce on others your own made-up rules and interpretations, this is quite disruptive. Guido den Broeder (talk) 07:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Guido, please remain civil and assume good faith. This is not some made-up rule, but part of Wikipedia:User Page#Removal of comments, warnings, namely "Important exceptions may include declined unblock requests (while blocks are still in effect) or confirmed sockpuppetry notices. In this case it may be legitimate to keep a user from gaming the system. Such templates are intended not only to communicate with the user in question, but to display important information about blocks and sockpuppetry." (to be clear: in this case, it's about a block, there is no sockpuppetry involved). It is understandable that you were not aware of this, but you should not accuse people of making up rules when they are in fact acting according to our guidelines and common practice. You may notice that Ned Scott above agrees that the notices should stay, but that he only disagrees with the talk page protection, which shoulonly have been done after due explanation and repeated removal of the block notice and unblock requests. Fram (talk) 07:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I did not remove 'a declined unblock request', thanks. You also left out the key part of this guideline section: Users should note that restoring talk page warnings is not a listed exception to the three-revert rule. Guido den Broeder (talk) 08:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Guido, you did remove multiple declined unblock requests [6], after which David Ruben protected your talk page, and Ned Scott started this section. Furthermore, David restored these declined unblock requests once, so your "key part" about the three revert rule is completely irrelevant. Please stop this wikilawyering and stay with the facts. Fram (talk) 09:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I did not remove 'multiple declined unblock requests' either, thanks. What I removed was the block notice PLUS closed unblock requests (and not an open unblock request, what David insinuated in his revert summary), which cannot possibly lead to the 'gaming the system' that this guideline section is looking to prevent. Will you please stop these accusations? Guido den Broeder (talk) 09:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

You removed three declined unblock requests at once. Three = multiple... Each of these had in bold "Do not remove this unblock request while you are blocked." The edit summary by David stated "rvb - generally block/sanction notices should remain at least until they expire, afterwhich free to remove. Proceedural issue was your edit warring, ie you being disruptive, block reviewed by 3 admins". There is no insinuation there that you removed an open unblock request. What are you actually trying to achieve by denying these things? Fram (talk) 09:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

A template is not a guideline, see Template_talk:Unblock#Removing_a_request. Guido den Broeder (talk) 10:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course a template is not a guideline, a template is a tool. But this template (the unblock request) is the template that is specified in the Wikipedia:Appealing a block policy. Since you just can't stop wikilawyering and are wasting my time, I'll probably no longer participate in this useless discussion. I urge you to seriously reconsider your way of editing and discussing here. Fram (talk) 10:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you very much for your message. I will defi stay here and be a part of wikiproject medicine. regards Studentmed (talk) 01:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The LGBTProject and its relation to HIVAIDS

A debate is going here which could use input from editors from outside our project. Thankyou. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 12:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

MAlvis

David, could you have a look at the work of MAlvis (talk · contribs) and my comments on his talkpage? I feel I am about to lose my cool with this editor. Time and time again I have had to ask him not to WP:WEIGHT and WP:SOAPBOX on issues of cholesterol and atherosclerosis, but I feel the response is not quite what I was hoping for. JFW | T@lk 09:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm having similar issues with Pdeitiker (talk · contribs), mainly on Talk:Coeliac disease. Again, your opinion would be appreciated. JFW | T@lk 21:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

BL

Hi david, hope you don't mind, but I jumped in on a request you were handling, MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist#aboutmyarea.co.uk.2Fkt20, and declined it. After looking through the requestors contribs, I blocked the account as an advert-only account, and felt continuing the debate for the links inclusion would be moot, as the acount could no loger reply.--Hu12 (talk) 12:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

No problem - had only looked at the site not the requestor - a useful learning point :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:00, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

pmc= in cite journal

Thanks for adding that pmc= support to Template:Cite journal. I made a suggestion for further improvement in Template talk:Cite journal #Suggestion for improvement for new pmc= parameter; can you please follow up there if you have the time? Eubulides (talk) 21:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Entirely agree - if but can get some consensus to do this, I'll happily code :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

My talkpage

Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors, which you did not on User talk:Guido den Broeder. Assume that they are here to improve rather than harm Wikipedia. Do not frivolously accuse other users from making threats and insinuate bad faith and that they will act badly in the future. Guido den Broeder (talk) 07:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Issuing a warning is not a threat and your reciprocal tagging seems "inflexible demeanor". Yor article talk page message was, IMHO, inappropriate particularly as it was on the same article for which you had been edit warring and blocked. I therefore issued an advisory warning and what was meant as a helpful suggestion as to how best to now proceed in contributing to the article (given that you feel there are still issues to be addressed) - you are free to take or leave advice as your see fit, but per policy previously highlighted to yourself, further edit warring risks "escalating blocks, and decreasing latitude for uncooperative behavior". David Ruben ^Talk 18:03, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I have not been editwarring, thanks. Not in all my time on Wikipedia. Guido den Broeder (talk) 18:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

(Sigh) Untrue - as per Blocklog for "Guido den Broeder" you have edit warred twice with resulting upheld blocks:

• 2 May for 48hours, x1 unblock request declined [7]
• 30 May for 7 days, 3 requests for unblock declined and final admin stating "...your contributions to various Wikipedia articles have been of a disruptive nature... two instances of edit warring and inappropriate, non-constructive reverting ... I uphold the original block here: it is apparent that it is justified, to prevent further disruption" [8]

Hence twice edit warring blocked with 4 different other admins reviewing. David Ruben ^Talk 19:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Said admin had no response when I asked for evidence, thanks. It's easy to claim that someone is editwarring, etc., but claiming so does not make it true. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Dave, you want me to remove the warning template? I think it's frivolous. WLU (talk) 20:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer & comment, but elimination of template would remove the context of the subsequent thread postings. As I think this thread is current, best leave all of it here for now - it'll get archived eventually. Feel free to comment at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Guido den Broeder David Ruben ^Talk 20:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I've given up commenting there - it's a complete waste of time to talk to GDB and he's already ramping up escalating blocks. The arguments have generally settled on agreement from most editors that his edits and understanding of policies, guidelines and mores and GDB has consistently rejected any suggestions and failed to change his behaviour. He'll be blocked for his actions, not because of the RFC and I've said everything I need/want to say there already. WLU (talk) 20:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

And yet, you keep adding these disrespectful comments everywhere. Do you really think this is helping the situation? Guido den Broeder (talk) 21:32, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to make me eat my words You are most welcome to prove me wrong, something which would be of benefit to yourself and wikipedia. WLU (talk) 02:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Task force recruitment

Hi David! I know you are a member of many WikiProjects and watch all sorts of medicine articles... but thought I'd see if you were interested in one more. I've proposed a task force to provide a place to discuss the articles on methods of birth control. If you're interested, please add your name to the proposal: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine/Task forces#Reproductive medicine. Lyrl^Talk _C 00:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for "Invite" :-) David Ruben ^Talk 01:55, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

NHS edits

We've briefly conversed on email before, and sorry to poke you again, but it would be good if I could see my version of the NHS page from so long ago as soon as possible, as I'm away for a substantial period of time sporadically over the next few weeks. Thanks, RHB - Talk 22:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

 Done Sorry took me some time to work out what the page name had been (finally located the deletion notice posted to your talk page, since archived), from there easy to locate the old text for you - emailed, but let me know if problem of unicode vs standard email font used :-) David Ruben ^Talk 01:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I don't know how to do RFC, so maybe you could?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equintium I don't think that this page is necessary, but I could be wrong. Looks like the creator is creating a page for his game or summat.Amada (talk) 22:16, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Looks a suitable topic for consideration of WP:Notable, else for WP:AfD consideration. I'll explain more on your talk page :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Venlafaxine

David

Thank you for your kind advice regarding duplicate citations. As you will, no doubt, have gathered I am new to wikipedia and am learning as I work.

Please do let me know if you see any other errors as I am always happy to accept advice.

I haven't complated my wiki user page yet but my background regarding venlafaxine can be found at http://stevewhiting.co.uk/effexorfx.aspx. I have also previously made contributions concerning venlafaxine which have been published in the electronic version of the BMJ and by Psychiatry On-line.

I hope that my contributions to the wiki venlafaxine page have created a more balanced article whilst also adding some important (but often overlooked) information.

Best wishes,

EffexorFX (talk) 11:44, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Re: Cite journal template

Hi, thanks for the tip, I was unaware :)

I went ahead and further specified the source in Ménière's_disease#History. I was the one who added that around fall 2007, and from what I've seen it hasn't been touched until today. I still have the article so I went ahead and specified pages, paragraphs, and tables :) I didn't know how to fully cite that without looking ridiculous (I didn't want to use the cite template for every single ref) so I added the article as a reference and then added the cite template as a reference. Is there a better way to do this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ijustam (talk • contribs) 03:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Alternative is to just state the source in a "Reference" section (ie applies to much of the article as a whole), leaving specific points to be shown under a "Notes" (or "Footnotes") section with the "<references/>" tag. What I did in teh article was use the "ref" tag's name parameter and duplicate it later when required - but no "right" way :-) David Ruben ^Talk 10:13, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

RfA Review

Hello Davidruben. I've noticed that you have a completed set of responses to the RfA Review question phase at User:Davidruben/RfA review, but they don't seem to be included on the list of responses here. If you've completed your responses, please can you head to Wikipedia:RfA Review/Question/Responses and add a link to them at the bottom of the list so that they get included in the research. We have a closing date of midnight UTC on 1st July, so please add your link before this date. Once again, thank you for taking the time to participate in the Question Phase of RfA Review.Gazimoff ^Write_Read 11:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - not completed my responses yet - will do so when I get I free moment (I hope prior to closing date)David Ruben ^Talk 13:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Template:Citation archiving

Hi there, I noticed that when you archived Template talk:Citation back in April 08, you archived to Template talk:Cite journal/Archive 3. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I cannot figure out why that was done. Why wasn't the archive made as a subpage of the Citation template? — Huntster (t • @ • c) 08:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Oops - 'cos I'm an idiot ! I wondered why there seemed overlap and 2 previous archives (1 & 2) not yet linked to. I obviously had both talk pages open and got myself confused. Easily untangled and I'll do later today when I have a free moment. Oh the shame ! - but thanks for picking up on this :-) David Ruben ^Talk 08:53, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Lol, thanks :) — Huntster (t • @ • c) 09:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Template help offered

Apologies if this is the wrong place to reply; any help establishing the template would be great. Perhaps Template: Artists' books would be a better simpler name? The main aim is to build a virtual library of artists books that anyone could add to, to have simple information about the size of edition, country of origin, etc. I deliberately based the design on artists' infoboxes, to keep a visual unity. For the articles so far, see Category:Artist's books and multiples. I quite like the red. Any ideas to take it forward?? User:Franciselliott

OK. Discussion started at Wikipedia talk:List of infoboxes/Proposed/Infobox Artist's Books and Multiples. David Ruben ^Talk 17:00, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Pityriasis alba

Hi David, since you made some substantial edits in Pityriasis alba, maybe even wrote the article in the first place (hard to tell because of copy/rename), I thought you would like to know that your work is prospering in other languages: de:Pityriasis alba. Good work, and greetings from Germany! --Minderbinder-de (talk) 14:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks for letting me know - let me know if you come up with any additional material to reciprocate back to en:W :-) David Ruben ^Talk 23:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, will do. The article is being looked at by our MD-team right now, there might be some new additions through the review. --Minderbinder-de (talk) 10:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks-Regarding Hypothyroidism, Psychological Associations

Thanks for the tip, I agree that new threads should be at the bottom and intended for mine to land there and was confused when it did not. That being said I am quite new at editing and computer speak in general, I will do my best to add correctly in the future. Cheers. Starlightning (talk) 06:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

easily done - you'd clicked on the first section's "edit" rather than dropping down for the last's :-) David Ruben ^Talk 12:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Subarachnoid hemorrhage

Hi David,

I notice on your user page that you're a general practitioner. I was wondering if you could take a look at the article subarachnoid hemorrhage, particularly at the diagnosis section, and see if you think we've missed anything that you'd find important to mention. I appreciate that it's a fairly rare condition which you may not have come across personally in clinical practice, and that the main worrying symptom is a thunderclap headache, but it'd still be great to have your input. We're currently up for FAC so the article is in very good shape, but even so, you can never look at it too many times! Hope all is well!

— CycloneNimrod ^talk?_contribs? 15:31, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

A brave GP who wouldn't be on the phone to the nearest medical registrar if someone walks into the morning surgery with a history of thunderclap headache! JFW | T@lk 17:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't think the issue is one of making the correct diagnosis but NHS (?past) inefficiency in not having 24hr CT or neurosurgery availability. My sad experience (GP & previously as SHO) tends to be of admitting obvious cases, registrars/consultants not being overly convinced or CT scans not available 24hr and so booked for the following day, and so (IMHO predictably) patient then found moribund in hospital bed the following morning and so passing away before CT let alone emergency surgery could be performed (my tally of cases encountered in hospital/GP 4 deaths and 1 survivor - hardly encouraging for having myself made the correct diagnosis and acted promptly - I truly hope NHS now improved since my last case a few years ago) David Ruben ^Talk 00:30, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

updating cite web to reflect the optional autoformatting

Hi David

Full-date autoformatting has now optional for some time, and rules for the raw formatting in place since last year, I think—about time, too. There's a bit of a push at FAC and FLC to encourage nominators to remove it from their main texts where there's already a high density of links (i.e., to allow the high-value links to breathe). This is the reason for the discussion at cite web talk on adding a matching option to render the date according to the format chosen according to those rules for the main text. An added advantage is the reduction in blue clutter.

No one is interested in forcing people to use or not use autoformatting; it has simply become important to provide the option for editors to choose. I wonder whether we have you on-side to insert the change into the cite web code. There are appear to be no objections after a few days. I can't imagine why there would be.

Cheers, TONY (talk) 11:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Survey Request

Hi,
I need your help. I am working on a research project at Boston College, studying creation of medical information on Wikipedia. You are being contacted, because you have been identified as an important contributor to one or more articles.

Would you will be willing to answer a few questions about your experience? We've done considerable background research, but we would also like to gather the insight of the actual editors. Details about the project can be found at the user page of the project leader, geraldckane. Survey questions can be found at geraldckane/medsurvey. Your privacy and confidentiality will be strictly protected!

The questions should only take a few minutes. I hope you will be willing to complete the survey, as we do value your insight. Please do not hesitate to contact me or Professor Kane if you have any questions.

Thank You, Sam4bc (talk) 22:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

User talk:Guido Den Broeder

David, I have protected the talkpage in the wrong version. Whil you have the ability to revert it anyway, I hope you don't do it (at least until the protection expires). You may be technically correct that he shouldn't have removed the comments, but in the end, it's his talkpage, the comments are still in the history, and it all serves little or no purpose. As long as he doesn't remove unblock requests, and doesn't alter comments, I would let him act as he likes. I'll drop a note about his incivility and personal attacks though. Fram (talk) 08:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Did his edit summary of "defamatory comment removed"[9] constitute a legal threat directly here in en:Wikipedia though ?

I have no problems with his talk page protection nor "the wrong version" :-) Your further comment/advice above is kindly taken - such independant admin action should indeed not be interfered with by any other even obliquely involved editor (ie myself) David Ruben ^Talk 08:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

For someone who claims that he has no mentor at the Dutch Wikipedia, because a mentor is a legally defined term in the Netherlands (his claim, no idea if it is true); I suppose his use here of "defamatory" could be interpreted as such. However, I think it is better to just let it pass. He has in my opinion no chance of being unblocked until or unless he drops any legal threats he has made against Wikipedia arbcom members / checkusers for their actions on Wikipedia. I do love his "correct translation" of his Dutch language comment though, it is so very different from my presumably incorrect translation at AN/I ;-) Fram (talk) 08:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Guido den Broeder and the Harmonious Editing Club

David, I've responded over there to your comment here, but I wanted to come here and just say something to you in person. You seem to be refusing to let things go with Guido. Every time something comes up about him, you are there bringing up the past incidents and painting Guido in a bad light. I disagree with the way you have been presenting some of the incidents, and I don't think you are giving Guido a fair chance. Ever since the COI/N thread, you seem determined to try and make something stick to him. I've been consistently more lenient than you, and it is frustrating that we are both disagreeing so much over this. I've supported the NLT block, but I do hope someone (I can't always be here) gives him a fair hearing about this, especially because he is contesting the accounts of what happened. If he accepts that he made a legal threat (or it turns out there was a misunderstanding) and withdraws the legal threats, he should be allowed back, and I hope that no-one (including you) would try and use the past incidents to prevent his return. In other words, please keep the issues separate, even if you have reservations about Guido as an editor. Having said that, I want to ask you one frank question: how did you end up at the Harmonious Editing Club? As far as I can tell, you are not on the list of members. From the outside, it looks as though you followed Guido to that page and then brought up a list of (in your eyes) his past problems there. He added his name on 5th July, and you posted to the HEC talk page 5 days later. What brought that page to your attention? Was there some other reason for you to go there? My point here is that if you don't give someone a chance, they will find it hard to improve. So, if he is unblocked, are you willing to step back for a few months (not days or weeks, but months) and give him a chance? Carcharoth (talk) 21:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Emailed reply (happy for deletion that talk thread if you agree - I only got there from userbox on his talkpage...)David Ruben ^Talk 09:43, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah, right. That is logical. Sorry about that. Maybe best to leave everything in place. Sorry I didn't have time to reply to the e-mail. I've pointed Fram here as well, so do leave it here and/or archive it when ready, if possible. Thanks. Carcharoth (talk) 08:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

A request for the arbcom to examine the Guideo den Broeder situation

G'day - I'm dropping this note in to you because earlier today I responded to a request to file a request for arbitration. My examination of events led me to believe that there may be some use in the arbcom examining this matter, and perchance resolving an issue or two, and you have been named as an 'Involved Party'. As such, your thoughts would be most welcome at the Request page.

Yours rather nervously to be wearing a clerk-ish hat for the first time,

PM - Privatemusings (talk) 23:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Thanks

Quoted from User talk:Anomie:
“	I truely racked my brains trying to figure the non-translocating wikified dates... checked my number closing brackets etc. Then realised only difference in my coding and yours to which I was slowly edging in my own sandboxes was my careful insertion of spaces for clear coding layout - doh ! Was adding a space into the iso values :-( Teach me to space out my "}}" But thanks for your patience with my stupidity on this... now where is that bucket of sand :-) David Ruben Talk 00:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)	”

It's small things like that that are often the hardest to find. If you have any other troubles with the template feel free to leave me a note at my talk page. Anomie⚔ 02:54, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Datestyle in cite web

David, the change to the cite web to introduce datestyle has caused some serious problems. It was my understanding that the introduction of the datestyle field would not make any change to existing cite webs in articles until they set a valid datestyle value, i.e. there was no migration required. Please temporarily revert the the change to cite web, then we can find a way to allow datestyle without affecting existing cite webs. Thanks Rjwilmsi 21:47, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Reverted back . Indeed not meant to make any change if datestyle unset. What we had not realised (despite the code examples for all to see), was that only accessdate and archivedate fields were previously wikilinked to show as default ISO else the users style. "Date" though was freetext if error (past coded that error meant pre-1970 & pre-1901) but on think this would apply for "date" of say cite_book, error trap used for pre-1901 dates to be shown as free text. ie not quite the same error trapping on a "bad" date - a full on ISO compliant date was not adversely affect. Anyway thats what bold revert discuss is about - I was bold, problem reverted, now we need to rediscuss :-) David Ruben ^Talk 22:17, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

RfA Thanks

Thank you for participating in my RfA, wich was successful with 73 support, 6 oppose, and 5 neutral. I'll try to be as clear as I can in my communication and to clear some of the admin backlog on images. If there is anything I can help you with, don't hesitate to ask me on my talk page! Cheers, --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 15:08, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:RareDiseases

Template:RareDiseases has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Selket ^Talk 21:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for highlighting addressing problem. Template's URL addressing needed to reflect change by NIH to their website (this edit). Comment added to TfD. David Ruben ^Talk 22:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it! I've withdrawn my TfD. There were a few others that had problems with them, so you might want to take a look at those too. I don't have enough knowledge of these external web sites to fix them myself. --Selket ^Talk 22:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Tonsil Stones

In the Prevention area of the Wikipedia article about Tonsil Stones, I added, (with no verification other than my own experience) that the consumption of any bread or breadlike textured foods can add to the creation of tonsil stones.

I have had this problem for years. The Ear, Eyes, Nose and Throat doctors would offer me antibiotics, and little droppers to rinse the area (for prevention?). Even my primary doctor was skeptical about the existence of tonsil stones (that was only a couple months ago).

Well, those stones get really lodged in the folds in the tonsil area. It's unpleasant, but it usually takes time and effort to pull (not rinse) those stones out.

As time passed, I finally put two and two together. Any time I ate bread or anything like it, the stones would appear. If I rigourously avoided bread, the stones do not appear. I am not allergic to wheat. I can eat pasta with no problem.

I am not the only one that has observed this. Please see check these sites: http://www.tonsilstones.net/pictures-of-tonsil-stones-a2.html and http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?p=691712&highlight=nexium just for starters.

Goodbye2U (talk) 17:42, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Blogsite only proves perhaps you are not an isolated single case. But it will fail to establish if a notable observation (ie one relevant to large fraction of those with tonsiloliths), and those who partake in a blogsite might not be a representative sample of all people with the condition. Needs WP:reliable sources in order to verify - so any sutable paper at PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez ? David Ruben ^Talk 21:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Xtremly Sorry David

I never intented so it might be done by mistake.I apologise once again But I dont know why the hell I had unknowingly removed some other's comment. With absolete regards to you once again . Pls forgive me --Dralansun (talk) 18:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Dr.David to forgive me

As a favor if u find time -could u visit Brhmoism page. It's composed by me and I confess I am not good in writing or creating an article. But the contents may attract you. If u don't have time put some generous doctors or scientists like you on my page as a favor. If they like the ideology there, pls tell them to improve/enhance the page and also give their comment on [Article for deletion]

Brhmoism philosophy is for global welfare. See if you can help the cause pls. Take you impulsive decision as you might be annoying or spoiling the moods of many of your religious friends/coliges here who are against me & my page. I will not mind if you reject me or my page but do read it once. The page had moved to debate [Articles for deletion] and taking an ugly turn over there. And I am new to such type of kid or crab fights. See it your [logic or knowledge hungry]rational doctors/scientist friends here on wiki can shape/save this page. By attempting this-You may end in doing some noble job for the human kind. while u too would agree that-since ages, For instance: my religion hates yours & your religion hates mine. Rigid Religion followers are only instrumental to spread hatred , jealousy , comparisons, competitions , conversions, blaming each others’ religion . Hope u understand my feelings. And if you have some hindi friend don't forget to tranaslate/ read the Brhmand Pujan Book on the given website in references at end. I challange if u translate and read so- U will never forget this precious gift to you from this friend,in your life time. I will remind-This is a forbidden/contraversial book in India which carry mere 31 page. but no religion dares to touch or promote it. Reading the same will be a never forgetting experience. David I also need some of your rational friend who know hindi well and could help translate news/reviews on *Brhmaand Pujan Critics’, News-Reviews. Could you request them to summit the new/reviews content on the debate/deletion page where argument is on. U see No Indian are helping me out on as they are very possesive/protective to their religion.They all are working on wikipedia on different subject of hindu mythology.And I am finding difficult to convince them that Brhmoism is not against any religion. Regards --Dralansun (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

IMHO article heading for the chop - as it fails to indicate reliable independant 3rd party soureces (academic study, reliable source secondary source etc). Adding your plea at the top ahead of the deletion proposal and as a shouting (all in capitals) poor form. David Ruben ^Talk 21:55, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:MerckManual

A remarkable number of instances of the {{MerckManual}} template were deleted recently as "dead links". Do you know whether this template could be resurrected? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:40, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

On very quick look, it seems that Merc has changed some of its pages, eg Atelectasis had 6-71a. at The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy Professional Edition. But a search at Merck here shows no Professional section 6-71a, but there is a 6-65e. at The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy Professional Edition which still works with teh template. As the site states on trying the old page "You have requested a resource that is being modified or has been removed".

The template therefore is fine, but some online pages have indeed changed. David Ruben ^Talk 19:08, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Inflammatory diseases of unknown etiology (2nd nomination)

An article that you have been involved in editing, Inflammatory diseases of unknown etiology, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Inflammatory diseases of unknown etiology (2nd nomination). Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? I'm leaving you this note because you did so much work early in the article's history. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:29, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Medicine Featured Topic Task Force proposal

Hey Davidruben, I've just set up a proposal for a new task force in the WikiProject Medicine called FTTF, or the Featured Topic Task Force. We aim to create a featured topic for medicine, most likely to do with an infectious disease of some form (the proposals so far include polio and bacterial infections in general) and become the first medical featured topic. The proposal can be found here and further discussion can be found at the bottom of the WikiProject Medicine talk page. I've very much appreciate your comments and possibly support of such a proposal, if you'd be willing to take part! —Cyclonenim^T@lk? 13:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Eczema Cure

Hi Dave, I to became a sufferer of Eczema 4 years ago. It took a while to diagnose and the doctors had a field day with me. A heap of perscriptions that didn't work. Because I didn't know anything about it I learn't for my self. I was getting good results from magnify glass on a sunny day couple of minutes 2 pair of sunglasses. But I always felt as though my skin was excreting somthing. I began to suspect the excretion was somthing from within. I met a guy who put me on a path where I found it. Ascaris is the common allergen. It is a parasite that lives in your lungs, intestine and can travel to the brain. It molts its skin this is the allergen. I have helped several of my friends and people that I meet at work that have obvious Psorisis on their face. It's a free cure cost you nothing and works. Try a parasite programe weather from the pharmasist or herbalist you will get immediate results, remember it's in your lungs as well so very hard to kill. The Ascaris parasite is probably not the only allergen in you but it is the one that tips you over the edge. My wife is obviously infected but she doesn't react the same way I do, her body and imune system is healthier and can filter the allergen. Look up Ascaris on wikipedia it even states that it's skin is an allergen that may cause : eczema, psorisis, hay fever, asthma, etc. Like I said you will get direct benifets from this. I hope this benefits you and many others as it has been a big relief to me.RaefRaefon72 (talk) 22:03, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reliable sources (medicine-related articles)

Hi David. You may already be on top of this, but the new Wikipedia:Reliable sources (medicine-related articles) needs to be added to the main Wikipedia:Reliable sources page. Maybe the whole LEAD can be used. Thanks for your efforts in this whole matter. -- Fyslee / talk 00:03, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, no not sure I am on top of this one :-) I've been looking at WP:RS for a little time wondering how best to do that - opted for these 2 edits - not sure well integrated vs your suggestion of using the lead. Feel free to rephrase :-) David Ruben ^Talk 00:48, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Guido - up to his old tricks again?

Can you have a look at [10]? It looks like guido is up to his old tricks. I made a good faith edit, nothing major - just adding an English version of a reference that previously was in Belgian (added originally by Guido, I think), and then added a comment about why the study disagreed with previous studies. As you can see from the talk page, Guido accused me of using my own "(faulty) guesswork and should not be in the article". This of course it untrue - the comment I added was taken from the main CFS article (although I think might have been since removed), and I'm pretty sure I've seen it in a review on the subject. Anyway, I would have been happy to look for a reference for the comment, but rather than asking for the reference, instead Guido just insulted me.

Also if you look at the ME/CFS_therapies article you'll see he just made a whole load a changes which I can't really figure out at the moment - it looks like he moved a few things around and it has confused wikipedia's 'diff' so I can't make head nor tail of what he's actually done.

Anyway, I'm not going to be around for a day or two so I'm just going to leave things as they are for now. I just wanted to let you know in case you want to take a look at this. --Sciencewatcher (talk) 02:34, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Promoting MEDRS to guidelines question

David, You promoted MEDRS into guidelines. However, the significant minority of editors (3 vs 14) believed that it was not ready, and the consensus with those editors (me including) has not been reached. The guideline is extremely raw and even (until most recently) contained grammar errors. I wonder if you can support what you did with some precedents. Sincerely,Paul Gene (talk) 09:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Let me get this straight. 3 editors believed the proposal wasn't ready and 14 believed it was? How is that not consensus to promote it to guideline? —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 22:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Paul - that was not a vote, indeed Wikipedia:Not#Wikipedia is not a democracy. And as the essay Wikipedia:How to contribute to Wikipedia guidance notes: "Votes are rarely appropriate for policy debates, and almost never for guidelines. A vote can never create consensus, instead it may or may not indicate existing consensus".

That said, admins weigh up proposals on the strength of the points raised, and frankly 2 of the opposing views were I thought weak and well argued against (first re primary in favour of secondary which is against main WP:RS guideline, second over what is meant by "third party sources" again covered by WP:RS and is included in the WP:MEDRS). I thought Una Smith's 3rd oppose posting was the best presented issue: re quality of what can be a "mediocre review articles", but against good counterpoints of using judgement and considering whether a review article fits into a consensus of published material allows determination of NPOV and WP:Undue for any radically different views from the mainstream. So just as AfD or AN/I (by admins) or RfA (by sysops) and other straw polls are decided finally by one person who weighs up the issues, but are not beholden to precise vote percentages, so I acted in this example.

Of course as WP:Consensus advises: "Consensus develops from agreement of the parties involved. This can be reached through discussion, action (editing), or more often, a combination of the two" - so my actioning that IMHO the merits of promoting MEDRS from proposal to guideline seemed appropriate, does not of course preclude further discussion and improvements -indeed the more robust MEDRS can become, the more useful it will be as a basis of considering specific sources in specific articles. Finally consensus can change but this is meant to be a guideline, not a fixed policy, that is meant to offer helpful guidence of general approaches and with some examples to help out. It has had (IMHO) enough work over a long enough time and with widely posted proposal-to-guideline headsup that a guideline I decided, but guidence can and should always be improved upon and that is what is currently happening in the talk page threads - so please continue :-) David Ruben ^Talk 04:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

David, thank you for explaining the reasons why you did it. I happen to disagree with you, as the MEDRS actually gives a biased reflection of the WP:RS policy. MEDRS is all about "secondary sources are bad" and very little about "evaluate all sources and use editorial judgment". Since Wikipedia is not a democracy, that was not a vote, and the consensus was not achieved, your action may appear to be against the spirit of the WP and its policies. There are thousands of administrators on WP, and what if they start promoting raw essays to guidelines at their discretion? What could help to allay my doubts is if you could give me a couple precedents for the similar actions taken by other administrators in such cases. Thank you, Paul Gene (talk) 02:48, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

A minor point re "reflection of the WP:RS policy", but WP:RS's banner indicates it is just a "content guideline", but I get what you mean, so on with my attempt at reassuring... :-) David Ruben ^Talk 22:14, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate where your uncertainty on this is coming from, and I agree it is hard to find much information about confirming guidelines (plenty on how to propose a guideline but not on the completion of process - but then guidelines don't come along that often compared to say AfD).

WP:RS was first drafted 28 February 2005 and stated as guideline 12 May 2005 some 2.5 months later. By comparison WP:MEDRS was drafted 10 November 2006 and I promoted it 2 September 2008 after some 22 months and with a RfC that had run for an extensive time from 10 August 2008. So not really a question of promoting a new unworked-upon essay (which clearly would be undesirable). Of course length of discussion does not directly equate to worthiness, but WP:MEDRS had had a longer development time than its parent.

As for precedents for making a decision and what is needed by way of straw poling numbers: in another area an editor pointed me a few days ago to a NYT article The Charms of Wikipedia and I noticed a paragraph from it:

"In October 2001, the first Wikipedian rule appeared. It was:

Ignore all rules: If rules make you nervous and depressed, and not desirous of participating in the wiki, then ignore them entirely and go about your business.

The "ignore all rules" rule was written by co-founder Larry Sanger and signed by co-founder Jimbo Wales, along with WojPob, AyeSpy, OprgaG, Invictus, Koyaanis Qatsi, Pinkunicorn, sjc, mike dill, Taw, GWO, and Enchanter. There were two dissenters listed, tbc and AxelBoldt."

So an official policy of WP:IAR had 13 fors and 2 against (86.7%), by comparison WP:MEDRS, a mere guideline to try to give further help and guidance, had 16 supports and 3 opposes (84.2%), so consensus is not an absolute 100% approval rating but for a clear majority and with the arguments weighed up.

If one looks at WP:MOS which was started 6 October 2001, it illustrates that terminology has changed, so difficult to find precise precedents - initially described as a "style guide" and gained the "guideline" banner 26 June 2005 with no debate at all in archived talk.

Anyway hope that helps allay your doubts :-) - I don't think I did anything wildly extravagant, and as previously stated, WP:MEDRS continues to be discussed, per these changes so far since made a guideline (compare to changes WP:RS has undergone since it was made a guideline), so all the guidelines evolve over time and become less raw as they bed down with debate, queries and particlar events highlighting the need to clarrify, modify, and be more or less flexible. David Ruben ^Talk 22:08, 8 September 2008 (UTC)