Talk:Witchcraft: Difference between revisions

Witchcraft is not intended to “harm others”. It is intended for personal power!

This post is an insult to witchcraft! 74.75.145.117 (talk) 03:50, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

This article includes the history of witchcraft, which was stigmatised at the time.

Nicerbep (talk) 13:12, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Nicerbep, I think the anon's point is that the lead is wrong; hence is unbalanced. Some witchcraft is intended for positive purposes (white magic vs. black magic), and this spans further back to subjects like Shamanism. The connotations of witchcraft as simply negative are also outdated, despite the fact that it isn't the first word related to (neutral) divination. 2A00:23C4:41A:9601:5024:97B:369B:2DAB (talk) 23:29, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

(The "Witchcraft traditionally means the use of magic or supernatural powers to harm others" part. At the same time, I think specifically when the word "witchcraft" came into use it was like a word with negative connotations, but that is no longer completely true today. 2A00:23C4:41A:9601:5024:97B:369B:2DAB (talk) 23:30, 27 November 2022 (UTC) )

(At that point, it comes down to the philosophy of what the subject of this article really is about; is it solely about witchcraft with loaded negative connotations, and where do we blur the lines between subjects like healing magic, modern divination (e.g. tarot card readings not intended to harm) New Age Movements; but society has historically used the term negatively (like a sociological moral panic); such as in the 1597 book Daemonologie by King James VI and I. 2A00:23C4:41A:9601:5024:97B:369B:2DAB (talk) 23:35, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

"New Age Movements" Some of these are continuing the traditional beliefs of western occultism, but I am not certain if there is a strong connection between their rituals and traditional conceptions of witchcraft. Dimadick (talk) 15:13, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

@Dimadick: Why does that matter? There are at least 1.5 million people in the US alone who identify as Wiccan. The central tenant of Wicca is the practice of (modern beneficial) witchcraft. Witchcraft is also a defining element of millennial culture (at least for women). At what point does the modern concept of witchcraft become important enough to warrant integration into this article? According to WP:WEIGHT an article on witchcraft should cover all the aspects and meanings of witchcraft "in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources". Given that there are literally thousands of published books about modern witchcraft (not to mention countless articles on the web), I don't understand why it is so staunchly excluded from the scope of this article (with a few token exceptions). I suspect there is some age and gender bias happening here, as I doubt the demographics of the people controlling this article are very similar to the demographics of the people reading it. But I digress. My question is: At what point does the modern concept of witchcraft become important enough to warrant integration into this article? Nosferattus (talk) 16:15, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

I'd say the connection between New Age adherents and "witchcraft" is not with the traditional meaning, or even with the more traditional Wiccan strains, but with the pop culture, self-helf, affirmations and charms as "spellcraft" type. Sort of the "white witchcraft" Wicca-lite of dabblers, spell kits with crystals advertised next to glitter makeup and Hello Kitty. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 20:01, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

If you wanna talk about the history of my religion, and the persecution of my people, go ahead and put it in the history section. It does not belong in the second sentence, stated as fact. This is hate speech. Remove it now. 68.229.102.219 (talk) 00:05, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

witchcraft is not used to harm others! Stop, forcing your opinions down other peoples throats! There are many things in life that harms, others, and witchcraft is not one of them. Witchcraft is about personal empowerment 174.162.157.131 (talk) 20:02, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm sure others are offended too...

This "information" is offensive if another religion was described with such discrimination it would be taken down! BB x 2.125.129.51 (talk) 16:27, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

You are welcome to feel how you like. But no, we have things somewhere on WP that will likely offend everyone in some way. WP:NOTCENSORED. DMacks (talk) 17:03, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

OK, let’s try and experiment. How about you go to the page about the Jewish people. They have been persecuted throughout history, much like witches have, so that’s a fair example, seeing how they suffered at the hands of the nazis, and we suffered at the hands of white Christians (eg burned at the stake). Now go say in the second sentence that they are evil. Or causing harm. Or greedy. How do you think that would go over. Really good right? Stop attacking my people. Get this hate speech removed now. FYI, not all witches are Wiccan. 68.229.102.219 (talk) 00:10, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

The article you're looking for is Wicca. – Asarlaí ^(talk) 10:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Not all witches are Wiccan. Which raft is a religion. Seeing this kind of discrimination over and over on Wikipedia of all places is disgusting. It’s hate speech. Remove it now. If you wants to mention, it’s negative connotations in history, do that in the history section! Not at the opening! Second sentence. Disgusting. 68.229.102.219 (talk) 00:03, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Witch craft is not evil!

Withcraft is not evil although i can be used to hurt others that rarely ever happens! Please change thay begining part I am a witch and it hurt me deeply to see witch craft be so demonized like that. 2604:6400:460E:2A01:2D77:59A0:D888:3623 (talk) 05:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

The article you're looking for is Wicca. – Asarlaí ^(talk) 10:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

yes i understand that you are and u hurt people but some witches make people's lives hell and can create sickness like depression and anxiety Lee gwebityala (talk) 12:09, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2023

106.51.166.180 (talk) 10:00, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

witchcraft is not used to harm others. ai would request that be corrected. its simply using nature to get energies and powers from and transformation

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:11, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Changes without consensus

@Randy Kryn: please read the sources and talk page. Editors have worked hard to come to the version we have. You will need consensus for the changes you want to make. Also, this is not a BLP. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 23:05, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Witches are people. I’m a witch. I’m not Wiccan. Are you enjoying attacking my religion? My ancestors were burned at the stake (yes really and I can prove it through my ancestry). This is hate speech. Remove it now. 68.229.102.219 (talk) 00:14, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

As I said on user talk: The article is based on the solid sources, and a worldwide view, not just recent, western beliefs (post Gerald Gardner) that have redefined the word in a few cultures. Traditional cultures see it very differently, and we need to represent a worldwide, well-researched view, not the dreck you'll find at a newage store or in clickbait. The other views are thoroughly covered on the 'pedia as well. Read both the article and the links.

Any innocent you are concerned about being harmed for calling themselves a witch (as was probably the case with the IP's ancestors) should be aware it's not a neutral word, and they should do their research before calling themselves this. Most newage and neopagan books are written by amateurs and contain all kinds of misinformation, leading to well-intentioned, but inaccurate ideas about both history and diverse cultures. Best wishes, - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 19:03, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Ridiculous!

This is an extremely biased and harmful view of witches and witchcraft! Neither witches nor witchcraft is evil, and magic is nothing like Harry Potter or Charmed or any other ridiculous fantasy film/TV show!

Spells are simply spoken affirmations,rituals are ways to focus and concentrate on self-awareness, self-discovery and self-correction, and magic is never used to harm or curse others!

Witches do not believe in evil or the devil or demons...this is lies spread by Christianity, and witch burning was a form of femicide. Powerful men used it to kill their lovers, mistresses, and women who accused them of sexual assault.

This article is NOT based on solid sources and worldwide views, it's based on the lies that have been spread by organised religion for hundreds of years now (mainly Christianity).

If you want this page to be correct, I suggest you do some non-biased research or even talk to some real witches...people who have practised for decades and know what they are actually talking about!!

If you want this page to be correct, I suggest you base it on facts instead of the opinions of organised religions intent on getting rid of all other beliefs that they don't agree with! 92.1.155.53 (talk) 20:16, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

The article you're looking for is Wicca.
This article is about the traditional and most common meaning of 'witchcraft'. It's absolutely based on solid academic sources and worldwide views. I suggest you take time and read it beyond the first line. – Asarlaí ^(talk) 13:11, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Actually, Witch redirects here and not to Wicca, so this page and its short descriptor should be presenting a present-day world view as well as the terminology and slant that was literally used and promoted by murderers during the witchhunts and witch trials. It's interesting that Wikipedia is claiming, in its voice, the same reasoning and descriptors of witches (nowadays probably millions of women identify as witches, mostly nature-centered and peaceful people whose tasks and beliefs are positive and benign) that was used during the years of using witchcraft as an excuse to kill intelligent and self-driven women and even young girls. At a bare minimum Witch should redirect to wicca, but it would be much better to balance this page out with topic accuracy. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:19, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

In that case I would suggest that Witch be redirected to Witch (disambiguation), where both the traditional and the Wiccan meanings can be listed. – Asarlaí ^(talk) 13:36, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

The term "Witchcraft" also covers the beliefs and practices of witches, so this page should be balanced as well (as for traditional, whose tradition?). Witchcraft is not solely the excuse to kill women, fairly recently in the context of historical eras, but is an ongoing and evolving topic. The short descriptor of this page by itself ("Practice of malevolent magic") could have been used in the witchhunts and witch trials to gain convictions. This page, which has over 1,700 daily readers, seems to be broken, probably more than just redirecting Witch to different terminology. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:41, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

I can agree. The page seems pretty biased, despite what Asarlai says. Just take from the first paragraph of the article "Witchcraft traditionally means the use of magic or supernatural powers to harm others...accused witches were usually women who were believed to have used malevolent magic against their own community, and often to have communed with evil beings. It was thought witchcraft could be thwarted by protective magic or counter-magic, which could be provided by cunning folk or folk healers. Suspected witches were also intimidated, banished, attacked or killed. Often they would be formally prosecuted and punished, if found guilty or simply believed to be guilty". This doesn't sound very neutral to me. The question is how to achieve this balance. Are there any sources we should add to ensure the page is more balanced? Historyday01 (talk) 14:35, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

In what way is it not "balanced"? – Asarlaí ^(talk) 14:54, 8 July 2023 (UTC)