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Contents

Vilma Espin

It strikes me - should we really include her second surname in the article name ? She is normally just referred to as Vilma Espin. -- Beardo 02:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Beardo it is most appropriate to include her last name as it links her to her family history a matter of some importance in Latin America where even the communists have genealogical concerns. As to her betrayal of Frank Pais and if memory serves of others I think that needs to be known. El Jigue 1-2-07

EJ - I am not saying exclude her second surname - just don't include it in the title of the article. -- Beardo 02:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Beardo I agree then, Vilma should have an article of her own, for she as much as any other was responsible for Castro's rise to absolute power. In my view a kind of wicked witch of the west type mention. Eva Braun, Dolores Ibárruri (La Pasionaria) and Rosa Luxemburg do so why not Vilma. The article needs balance and to mention the nasty things she did such as her "accidental" phone call that betrayed Frank Pais [1] [2]. This is also said mentioned in Robert Freeman Smith (The Hispanic American Historical Review, Vol. 55, No. 3 (Aug., 1975), pp. 585-586) but as yet I have not read this. Vilma naturally blames someone else [3]. There is also juicy gossip that she seduced somebody and then yelled rape, to get rid of another rival. This is from memory but I will try to get citations. Jose Espin her father hid some of the Moncada attackers in 1953 (The Cuban Insurrection, 1952-1959. by Ramon Bonachea, Marta San Martin p. 52). Nilsa Espin, her sister, was murdered or commited suicide in Raul Castro's office in 1969 [4]. Vilma is said to be one of the most corrupt among the Castro elite in Cuba and it is alleged that her brother left Cuba to live the life of a millionaire in Ecuador [5]. El Jigue 1-2-07

In Karol, K. S. (Translated from the French by Arnold Pomerans) 1970 Guerrillas in Power. The Course of the Cuban Revolution. Hill & Wang New York. (A review is available in Hispanic American Historical Review, 51, (4) (Nov., 1971) pp. 670-674. This author was educated as a communist and it shows. However, Footnote 113 pp. 173-174 demonstrates the struggle for power between Guevara and Frank País, and can be taken to suggest that the Guevara and Raul used Vilma Espín for their purposes. And this also demonstrates Guevara over weaning ambition in that despite his Argentine accent which would have given him away as soon as he opened his mouth in Santiago de Cuba) he wanted to be Frank País’ s replacement in “El Llano.” Footnote 114 on p. 174 ends with”…On the day of victory the human material was politically immature, even on admission of many veterans, and this explains why so many guerrilleros later defected.” In other words El Llano rebels were not communists nor were most of those in the Sierra; thus by definition sooner or later they would be candidates for purges by Fidel, Guevara and Raul. El Jigue 1-3-06

Z: You might want to look at the topics I have been raising in Vilma Espin discussion. El Jigue 1-6-07

Thanks

Thanks for reverting vandalism on my talk page. --Qyd 14:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cuba edits

You do a good job keeping up with the Cuba-related edits. Thought I'd tell ya. takethemud 16:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)takethemud[reply]

Editor Help

Hi, I've reached an impasse with another editor on the Oliver Kamm page and would appreciate a third party opinion. Thanks.Felix-felix 10:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Will do Felix. But beware. If memory serves me, a friend whose opinion I value discussed a book written by Gilad Atzmon which he described as outrageously anti-semitic, and virtually the rantings of a madman. Incidently, the same friend later provided me with David Edwards and David Cromwell's new book "Guardians of Power", and thus is well versed in all the matters at hand. I'd also be loathe to present anything that showed the odious Socialist Worker Party in an improved light. As for the absurd Kamm, I believe he was banned from editing this site, or at least an editor showing all the hallmarks of Kamm was banned, for repeatedly editing his own article.--Zleitzen 12:11, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Ambassador to Cuba

See my reply. •DanMS 04:22, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Christmas Greetings

Merry Christmas my fellow Wikipedian Zleitzen. Yours truly GoodDay 19:05, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Request for help

I noticed that you were instrumental in bringing a recent article to FA status. I have been trying to get the Ohio Wesleyan University article to FA status. One of the critical areas for the article that remains an issue is copyediting and prose. I was wondering if you might be willing to help me in this area? I'd greatly appreciate it! Thank you. WikiprojectOWU 22:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Christmas wishes from Miami

And a Merry Christmas, to you too, Z. And all the best for the coming year. -- Beardo 06:04, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Feliz Aňo Nuevo

Hello, Zleitzen. Many thanks for the Christmas greetings! As you may have noticed, I have decided to celebrate the holidays by taking something of a wiki-break. (Must confess I am really enjoying it.) I wish you and your family health, happiness and continued success throughout the new year!! -- Polaris999 07:54, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I too will be seeking a break from activities, Polaris, perhaps more permanent in nature. I see Jmabel has entered semi-retirement, and the unwelcome return of an editor - whom I am not ashamed to say I believe is the worst and most ungracious editor on wikipedia - to Cuban articles, leaves me with the feeling that I'm too old to be dealing with such people. I just thank the heavens that in the real world I am still able to engage with archivists, historians and people with some nouse about the issues at hand. It seems a lot more preferable than talking turkey with American undergraduates at this place, regardless of how ungracious that may sound itself. I hope I've managed to present a more nuanced and detailed picture of Cuba on various articles and I've put myself to good use. And I'm glad that my pet project reached featured article status. I'll be following developments on citizendium, which if it goes as planned, will hopefully mean an opportunity to re-engage in a generally enjoyable enterprise without having to deal with various lunatics and the plain ignorant on a regular basis. Thanks for all your help and I've very much enjoyed your excellent input which is always of the highest standard.--Zleitzen 15:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I swear, we need some admins that are actually willing to do something about problem editors. We are losing far to many good people because of it. Anyway, I really do hope you decide to stick around for a bit at least. There is so much more work to be done on Cuban-related articles and to be quite honest because of the political situation in Cuba there is extreme partisanship from both sides that tends to make editing such articles a difficult task. I find you to be one of the few rational people whom I find editing such articles and losing that will be a big loss. Anyway, happy new year.--Jersey Devil 08:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: One of the best references on the bloody failure of the Guevaran approach to guerrilla warfare in Guatemala is: Le Bot, Yvon 1997 La guerra en tierras mayas (War in Mayan Lands). Fondo de Cultura Económica, Mexico D.F ISBN-10 9681645375, ISBN-13 978-9681645373

or if you prefer it in French: Lebot, Yvon 1992 La guerre en terre maya: Communauté, violence et modernité au Guatemala, 1970-1992 Editions Karthala. Paris ISBN-10 286537369X, ISBN-13 978-2865373697

Although this book gives too much credence to Rigoberta Menchú at the time it was written Menchú's little changes to history were not well known.

El Jigue 1-2-07

ps Happy New Year

Z: You might want to look at some of the topics I have been raising in Vilma Espin discussion page. El Jigue 1-6-07

Charles Magoon

You added the ref to Cuba: The Pursuit of Freedom on this page. I've fleshed it out to use the cite book template and found the ISBN number, but can you check and fill in the edition of the book you have (from which you pulled the page numbers), so that they match up? I assumed first edition, but I could be mistaken. JRP 22:14, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ah, ha, Cuba topic, so Zleitzen is involved :-) I think he's taking a bit of a wiki break. I've also been experimenting lately with Diberri's ISBN finder, and I can't make that ISBN work there - I admit ISBNs are Greek to me, but you can play around with Diberri's tool (click on the ISBN drop down) to see if you can find something. Saludos, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The tool may be somewhat borken. It comes up in ISBNdb, which is (according to the text) the data source for that tool. JRP 22:32, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not surprised - have had many problems with Diberri's tool, but it's helpful with PMIDs. Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: I have added the following to the discussion of the Escopetero article:

Raul Castro, Ernesto Guevara and Camilo Cienfuegos' views on escopeteros

Raul Castro recognizes the presence of escopeteros in his Diario de Campa~na. He divides escopeteros into two categories: (1)"escopeteros por la libre" and (2) "escopeteros" under the control of the Castro comandancias. During the "opening" of La Segunda Frente Raul admits the prior presence of "500" escopeteros in the area and talks about executing some he accuses of banditry. Then and this is the surprising thing he incorporates the rest into his own forces. This generates the largest group of anti-Batista guerrillas in existence at that time.

Guevara's approach is far more self serving, he accuses the escopeteros of crimes and executes a good number of them (see Jon Anderson). This action drastically decreases the resistance to Batista in the Sierra Maestra zone ("Primera Frente"). The credit for the military actions of these guerrillas is then assumed by Guevara. For instance at the second action at Hombrito, much of the credit goes to El Mejicano (Francisco Rodriguez Tamayo) but this is not mentioned. Anderson refers only to Guevara pardoning of Rodriguez Tamayo. Of course later one finds on the web reports of the defection of Rodriguez Tamayo who had been sent to Miami to kill Rolando Masferrer, leaving one with puzzling thought that if Rodriguez Tamayo was considered such a skilled assassin (he is also reported by Cuban government sources as involved in the JFK assassination), what did he do to earn that reputation, become second in command of Universo Sanchez's forces, and then be completely written out of Cuban government official histories.

Camilo Cienfuego's first Llanos campaign's success is readily attributed to support of Orlando Lara Batista group (Los Muchachos de Lara). Cienfuegos, a more generous soul, readily admits this support, and after Lara Batista is wounded the support of the July 26 Movement towards the central provinces by the Muchachos de Lara is also recognized. However, Orlando Lara Batista did something to offend the powers that be and sometimes in official Cuban sources there are hints of such. El Jigue 1-11-07

Fabio Grobart

A mayor éminence gris of Cuban history is best known as Fabio Grobart (although his original name is Polish). His importance in founding the Cuban (Stalinist) communist party is/was(:>) recognized by Fidel Castro:

Castro, F. 1965 (accessed 1-9-07) Pursc Central Committ Presentation, Havana's Chaplin Theater -Havana Domestic Radio - Speech Report_Nbr- Fbis - Date- 19651004 -Text- Castro Refers To Cuban Refugees, Guevara [6],

the Rand thinktank [www.rand.org/pubs/research_memoranda/2006/RM4994.pdf],

and Jewish History experts: Asís, Moisés 2000 (accessed 1-8-07) Judaism in Cuba 1959-1999 ICCAS Occasional Paper Series, [7]. “By 1925, there were 8,000 Jews in Cuba (some 2,700 sephardic, 5,200 ashkenazic, and 100 Americans). Four ashkenazic Jews were in the small group that founded the first Communist Party of Cuba in 1925: Grimberg, Vasserman, Simjovich aka Grobart, and Gurbich. They opposed the religious and community life of the other Jews.”

Evidence has been presented to link Grobart to the Leon Trotsky assassination, and less strong evidence to the Julio Antonio Mella assassination.

Although the party Grobart helped found was not the first Cuban communist party, it is considered as such by the present Cuban government.

His son(?) Fabio Grobart Sunshine has a number of publications and is highly placed among the Cuban Nomenclatura.

I am preparing a major footnote in my book on Grobart and I am will to share some (but not all (:>) citations) to this major figure in Cuban history. Could somebody be so kind as too open such an article El Jigue 1-12-07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 19:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Hello EJ. I'm at present fairly disillusioned with the process, therefore I'm not editing at the prolific levels I was last year. What may interest you is the important role of Spanish anarchists in the period which saw the rise of Grobart and others, many of whom were later deported by Machado. I remember you have written about the lack of coverage of Grobart here in the past, Good luck with your research.--Zleitzen 02:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: Thank you. You might also consider Italian Anarquists who were active in Cuba since at least the 1895-1898 war. I have been scanning an Orestes Ferrara book which is on line (Ferrara y Marino, Orestes. 1975 Una mirada sobre tres siglos. Memorias. Playor Madrid ISBN 84-359-0119X)) it is found a site which puts old Cuban books on line (many of which I read with some distaste, but then reading Cuban government produced books is even more distasteful). The main site is [8], and the Orestes Ferrara book of interest is found at [9]. Unfortunately this book is in a pdf form that my computer finds unsearchable, so I must use the index and read it all. In one of the later chapters Ferrara talks about how he maintained links to his former anarquist coleagues. The book amazingly enough narrates events up to the 1960s, and although it glosses over the author's ties to Machado, he has a certain view which might be called arrogant independence. The long introduction by CArlos Marquez Sterling is most informative. Thus this books is well worth reading as are others at this site, even if one. as in the case of the Batista volumes, finds the authors views distasteful. El Jigue 1-13-06

Celia Sanchez photo

Wandering through the web a photograph of Celia Sanchez (which I assume given the source is in the public domain) it shows the Che but it also shows a quite different Celia Sanchez profile (my memory of faces is not that good). The interesting thing about this Celia profile is that it shows her clearly to be of a least partial Taina inheritance (whether this is a deliberate propaganda distortion I do not know). this is found at: Martínez Crespo, Xurxo 2004 (last accessed 1-13-07) Manolo Ponte Regueira “Duende”, a sombra galega de Fidel Castro en Caracas en xaneiro de 1959 A Coruña, 15 de marzo de 2004 [10] Still given where Celia was born and grew up this is very possible. El Jigue 1-13-07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 16:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Talk:Havana Club Question

Thanks for your vote in Talk:Havana Club#Proposal to Disambig. However, as I have stated, for a 'support vote there are three options as stated in the poll question, but you didn't answer which option you prefer-- I suppose you'd support option 1 (move away Barcadi only), but if not, plus clarify at your vote, thank you. --Samuel Curtis^{Shinichian-Hirokian}-- _{TALK·CONTRIBS} 12:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fabio Grobart article

Z: Perhaps you have time to glance at the new Fabio Grobart article. El Jigue 1-13-06

Good work EJ. That's an article that had been waiting to be written for a long time. Though I was surprised to read mention of Star Trek in the article!--Zleitzen 00:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: Thank you. I did quite a bit more then took a rest from Fabio Grobart, to work on something else. You may want to take another look at it. Thank you. BTW If you are not a trekkie you might want to watch re-runs of "Deep Space Nine," the complexity of the tailor-spy Garak tells you that he is a composite character taken from real life. Besides there are quite a number of followers of this program in the computer world and in fiction who recall such, e.g. John LeCarre's "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" El Jigue 1-14-06

Fidel Castro dying

It seems finally clear that Fidel Castro is dying after a series of failed gastro-intestinal operations [11] [12].El Jigue 1-16-07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 14:49, 16 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Z: inconditional Castro partisans are attacking on a wide front from Cuba to Che Guevara. l Jigue 1-18-07

Z: Norseman's deletion of Miami Herald sources still stand. Frankly this points out one of the greatest weakness of Wikipedia: contributors with strong feelings and not necessarily the most accurate information prevail. "The good are without will and the bad full of passionate intensity." we are way back to 1917 El Jigue 1-19-07

I think the links themselves were actually dead EJ. The Herald archives pages after a few months and the website address changes. Though the concept of not using the Herald at all seems simply impractical.--Zleitzen 00:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Omar Bakri Muhammad

This is English Wikipedia, not British English Wikipedia. KazakhPol 00:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style which states:

"Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the usage and spelling of that country."

--Zleitzen 00:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The last time I checked Bakri is not in the UK. KazakhPol 00:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bakri was a British citizen, spent most of his life in Britain, is a known figure in British public life and has had no association with the United States. Which is probably why another user was as surprised as me when the spelling was reverted three times by you to United States spelling from British/International English without any justification and against policy. --Zleitzen 00:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Adminship?

Hi, I've been considering nominating you for adminship on Wikipedia. Would you object if I nominated you for adminship?--Jersey Devil 08:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the endorsement Jersey, though I don't think I have the patience for all the grief that seems to follow the role, and I imagine I've made more enemies than friends at this place to pass the stingent review process! More urgently, having successfully submitted yourself to a peer review, it would seem right that you should be up for adminship.--Zleitzen 23:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, I actually was up for adminship a while ago (last July) in Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Jersey Devil.--Jersey Devil 02:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bay of Pigs

I'm curious why you removed the following paragraph from the Bay of Pigs Invasion article?

The reaction of some of the American combat pilots when Kennedy canceled the planned air attack can be seen in this quote from the book Nicaragua Betrayed by the former President of Nicaragua Anastasio Somoza Debayle. "In the meantime, the U.S. aircraft carriers stood off Cuba and never launched their fighters. One fighter squadron, VA-34, known as the 'Blue Blasters,' did get airborne but was prohibited from engaging the enemy. It has been reported that some of those American combat pilots were actually in tears. All was in readiness, but at the last moment, orders came from the White House to cancel fighter support for the invading [exiled] Cubans. Only President Kennedy and his brother, Bobby, knew why this decision was made. It was a U.S.-planned and U.S.-financed operation and, in the end, it was a U.S. decision that led to disaster for the invasion force and permitted Castro to remain in power." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Misbach (Misbach)

Not cited.
Contrary to popular thinking, Kennedy didn't cancel air strikes. The option of airstrikes and direct US involvement was not on the table and had been dismissed long before the invasion - see extensive writing on the Kennedy administration, Bay of Pigs invasion and declassified records.
Somoza is simply not an appropriate source. A brutal figure bitterly resentful of both the United States for apparently betraying Nicaragua, and Cuba. His statement "Only President Kennedy and his brother, Bobby, knew why this decision was made" is hopelessly ahistorical. Records which would show this to be hollow and false rhetoric are freely available from all sides.

Therefore I consider the quote to be misleading to readers. Bear in mind that I have no interest in protecting the reputation of the Kennedy administration, but rather, would prefer the article to reflect the multitude of research by leading historians. --Zleitzen 08:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anastasio Somoza was a staunch anti-communist, a graduate of West Point, a General, and a President. He was not bitter towards the U.S., he was bitter towards the President. He was a friend of America, educated in our schools, who spoke perfect English, and had helped with the Bay of Pigs invasion, but who was betrayed by the Jimmy Carter administration during his country's bloody fight with the Communist Sandinista invaders, armed and trained by Castro. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Misbach (talk • contribs) 20:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Right, OK. Whether the charming Mr Somoza was betrayed by Jimmy Carter and was therefore unable to protect Nicaragua from those "communist invaders" as you call them - the Sandinistas - or not, his claims concerning the Bay of Pigs invasion were erroneous and are not really serious enough to be on the page. Again, Somoza's analysis "Only President Kennedy and his brother, Bobby, knew why this decision was made" contradicts extensive coverage of the detailed decision making process in Washington, where numerous advisors, planners and analysts were involved. Consider that Bobby Kennedy was barely involved in any decision making regarding the Bay of Pigs, only after its failure did he adopt the central role he was to have during the missile crisis. Which is why, alongside the fact that his quote is not sourced anyway, the section was removed from the article. I suggest rexamining the period, reading established historians, and examining the declassified records to establish the story of Washington and the Bay of Pigs. All should be freely available. --Zleitzen 00:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: I have heard this before from sources far more savory than Somoza, when I run into a citation will place it here. El Jigue 1-27-06

Charles Magoon

Thanks for your kind words. I'm happy this is over and have been working on some other Spanish-American War-era articles that I can try and advance to FA. So many wonderful stories and biographies of people very important and notable in their day, but someone forgotten. If you have some suggestions, please let me know. JRP 06:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Che Guevara's purges

Purges

The article states;

Guevara conducted a series of purges of those he viewed as unreliable or not appropriately ideological

The source provided is Jon Lee Anderson. Checking the appropriate pages of his book, it seems to me that it would take a leap of logic to describe Anderson's description in the terms laid out above. For instance, one of the page numbers given in the our reference list (p.279) refers to the murder of René Cuervo. He was executed by Guevara's forces for "victimizing an entire section of the population of the Sierra, perhaps in collusion with the army. In view of his status as a deserter, the trial was speedy". This case is typical. I have read nothing in those citations that imply that people were executed for being "unreliable or not appropriately ideological". --Zleitzen 15:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Of the other page citations given, p264 doesn't refer to executions, p269 refers to Guevara sending his men out to track a deserter with orders "to kill him if they found him". p269 refers to an attack on enemy chivatos and Guevara's orders to kill Cuervo if found. --Zleitzen 15:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Z: the orders were carried out and Rene Cuervo was killed. The motive behind this killing was apparently to take the money Cuervo was bringing in from the folowers of the now dead Frank Pais and from Cuervo's parents. As to Cuervo and the others being "bandits, chivatos etc, etc." all we have as evidence are the Che Guevara's words, repeated by Anderson. In the Sierra the word was that Guevara had killed Cuervo,"por que el le hacia sombra." You are just going to have to await the documentation in my book El Jigue 1-21-07

There is an academic reference at [13] which supports at least in part what I stated previously about the Che's purges in the Sierra. El Jigue 1-21-07

I have read Julia Sweig's book and used it as a reference before, EJ. I highly recommend it if you haven’t seen it, as it covers a lot of the Frank País arena. Though I don't remember reading anything about Guevara murdering the non-ideological in the Sierra, nor does she detail any of the rumors you have discussed concerning País's death. Given that Julia E. Sweig is one of the leading historical authorities on the Cuban revolution anywhere, and has written and spoken about events in much detail many times, perhaps you could contact her with these revelations and perhaps, oversights.--Zleitzen 14:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z:What Sweig does mention as I have repeatedly is the tension between Frank Pais and the Che was serious, a number of others (such as Huber Matos) have commented on this. However, the most revealing details are from verbal histories, which will appear in my own book, as will other views of betrayal of Frank Pais. Dunno if it is useful to filter personal memories through the mind of an academic who was not there. Still it is not scholarly to take without reservation words of accusation from the Che's own writings. El Jigue 1-22-06

Indeed EJ. If you take a look at this paragraph I added to Che Guevara's involvement in the Cuban Revolution here [14]I have attempted to convey both the differences between Guevara and the other groups, and some of the self-serving issues with Guevara's memoirs. This is taken from Swieg.--Zleitzen 16:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: The one who really knows is Francisco Rodriguez Tamayo (El Mejicano, El Mexicano, The Mexican, there are others who also use this knickname) who served with Guevara. Jon Anderson mentions Guevara, pardoning Francisco Rodriguez Tamayo, but this seemed to be because Guevara could not field a fighting force without him after these purges. Perhaps I owe my life to El Mejicano. However, he is hard to get hold of (I believe he contacted me under a pseudonym but refused to go into further detail since then I could have identified him). He crops up in unexpected places on the web, such as in the endless discussions on plots to kill JFK (I think that accusation is invalid and may have been fabricated by Fabian Escalante and that against Rolando Masferrer (El Mejicano defected instead, somebody else got El Tigre). The last I heard of him was years ago something to do with gambling and gamecocks and possible involvement in crime in south Florida. Anybody who makes contact has access to a goldmine of information. Sporadically I keep trying to find him but given what I owe him do not want to place him in jeopardy. El Jigue 1-22-07

One should keep in mind that Sweig had access to Cuban government sources, a privilege only given to those who favor the Castro government (see

Inside the Cuban Revolution: Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.(Book Review) The Historian - June 22, 2004 Luis Martinez-Fernandez

Word count: 924. citation details

Inside the Cuban Revolution: Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground. By Julia E. Sweig. (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2002. Pp. xv, 254. $29.95.)

This review starts “Few, if any, t.....”

but the critical part of this review is:

"The bulk of the documentary evidence sustaining the book consists of hundreds of documents housed at the Cuban Council of State’s Office of Historic Affairs, which the Cuban government made available to Sweig while keeping the archive’s doors closed to other researchers. This valuable and fascinating collection of documents allowed the author to paint a well-documented and nuanced perspective on llano- sierra relations as well as on how the leaders of the 26th of July Movement related to other anti-Batista figures. These sources are complimented by much of the extant historiography on the insurrection and around twenty interviews that Sweig conducted in Cuba. Although the able use of the Council of State’s documents stands as one of the book’s most salient contributions, the admittedly sanitized nature of the document collection and the author’s failure to interview voices beyond those loyal to the Castro regime produces a somewhat distorted picture of the events and a more favorable portrayal of Castro. The correspondence between Castro and former president Carlos Prío Socarrás, for example, which was withheld from the author, would have most likely exposed the politiquero (politically opportunistic) side of Castro. Contrary to Sweig’s conclusion that Castro was opposed to politiquería, while scolding Hart and others for overtures to Cuba’s politicians, three years earlier he had maneuvered to secure for himself Havana’s mayoralty in exchange for supporting Justo Carrillo, leader of the Agrupación Montecristi, who at the time appeared most likely to emerge as the post-Batista leading figure. Likewise, had Sweig interviewed and/or used sources written by key protagonists who are not Castro supporters such as Colonel Ramón Barquín, Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo, Carlos Franqui, Huber Matos, and Gustavo Arcos, to name only five, she would have produced a more accurate and balanced view of the Cuban insurrection. Unfortunately, such manifestations of Miami-phobia plague much of the scholarship on Cuba. Despite these problems in terms of the selection of sources, Sweig’s book is an important and useful contribution for the understanding of the struggle against Batista.

Rutgers University Luis Martínez-Fernández "

El Jigue 1-22-07

Very good EJ. By the way, I've been meaning to read Carlos Franqui's book for a while. Do you recommend it? One major consideration that I have to bring up concerning various rumours is this: Guevara's animosity towards certain individuals and groups is well known, but would Celia Sanchez and others really continue to show such genuine affection for Guevara, if it was the case that Guevara had been involved in the death of various underground figures including País? It seems unlikely. Likewise the old Camilo rumours. If Castro was somehow responsible for his death, Guevara - who worshipped Camilo - certainly never thought so, as is evident from his continued devotion to the old fox after the events. Occam's razor seems appropriate to apply to these matters and it seems simpler than these rumours imply, I fear that we are heading too far into the murky world of George Smiley :>)--Zleitzen 00:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: The trouble with that argument is that Vilma Espin's telephone call was the trigger for Frank Pais's killing. As to the argument that Celia would have objected does not consider how deeply she was in love with Fidel Castro. Besides it would not be Fidel, but Raul and the Che...... Fidel Castro has always "hid his hand" when murder was done,he learned to do that when a student at Havana University. Then there is the mystery as to why did Vilma's sister kill herself in Raul's office. One has to look at the series of betrayals of rivals of Castro to Batista killers, even though the only one I know to be extremely well documented is the betrayal of the palace attackers in Humbolt 7 by the high level communist Marquito..... One should be aware that most historians do not have a history of involvement in these bloody details and often, unconsciously view the actions of revolutionaries as if it were a mere faculty fight over office space or such. A far more realistic and rational approach would be to consider that murder and betrayal are a "Modus Vivendi" (sarcasm intended) among hardened revolutionaries and only those who have gone through such (e.g. "George Orwell) really understand that. Thus it is equally erroneous to assume innocence as to postulate guilt in these matters. All hardened revolutionaries involved in the Frank Pais matter, especially Raul and Guevara are known to have killed openly on other occasions. One can get and idea of what this means considering the case of Universo Sanchez shooting and killing a communist bureaucrat who refused him a milk ration, and only getting house arrest. BTW I will get to Franqui later. El Jigüe 1-23-07

A most useful reference in his regard is:

Grossman, Dave 1996 On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society. Back Bay Books (Little, Brown and Company) New York ISBN 0316330116

El Jigüe 1-23-07

An even more critical review is found at [15] El Jigüe 1-23-07

Recent minor rebellion

Illustrating the point of the difficulty of obtaining information from Cuba is the following matter I recieved by e-mail today:

"It is common to read that nothing is happening in Cuba, as Fidel Castro, seems to be dying. However, this is not exactly true, what is more appropriate is to say no news of rebellion reaches the outside world. For instance here is a description (footnote 1) of a minor rebellion among army recruits, which involved an escape and a relatively large military operation to capture them. The rebels are expected to be shot......." [16] El Jigue 1-24-07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 20:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Religion in Cuba

I inserted this note in the Cuban article discussion:

The present article is so bland and kind to the past and present circumstance of religion in Cuba, that it bears revision. A good starting point might well be: Super, John C., 2003 Interpretations of church and state in cuba, 1959-1961. Catholic Historical Review, Jul 003, 89 (3)511-529.

A friend of mine excerpted the following from this article: “ Then in the fall of 1959 Raúl Castro disbanded the Comandos Rurales (Rural Comandos), a group formed in February, 1959, to promote community development in the Sierra Maestra.( n26) By the end of the year, the regime also made efforts to control the Central de Trabajadores de Cuba (Cuban Labor Confederation), purging from its ranks members of Acción Católica.( n27)” “The Church took the offensive when it organized the Primer Congreso Católico Nacional (First National Catholic Congress) in Havana on November 29, 1959. Some one million Cubans crowded the Plaza of the Revolution to attend Mass and to hear denunciations of communism.” “As resistance to the revolution became more difficult within Cuba, forces organized outside of it, culminating in the Bay of Pigs invasion of April 17, 1961. Much attention has been given to the three Catholic chaplains who accompanied the expeditionary force, which lent it the air of a crusade. Castro's reaction could be interpreted as a counter crusade. Widespread arrests, imprisonments, and expulsions followed on the heels of the invasion. The government arrested bishops, shut down La Quincena, the last Catholic publication, closed the offices of Acción Católica, and created a general climate of intolerance. More Catholics now believed that the struggle went beyond politics and involved the very survival of their faith.( n49)” Increasing confrontations hardened the relationship between the church and state, and contributed to discrimination, intimidation, insuits, sabotage, and much more.( n50) Even Cubans returning to Cuba from the United States in 1961 were filled with propaganda against the Church. In the summer of 1961, the widely read Spanish author José Maria Gironella sat on the deck of the Guadalupe as it steamed toward Havana and watched Cubans reading in Cuba Nueva stories about "nuns who killed children, about cardinals given over to orgies, and every time it referred to Spanish priests in Cuba, it called them 'Falangist clergy.'"( n51) Stories such as these fit very well with the government's emphasis on popular education to mold attitudes and beliefs. This was the education of home and office, of ballfield and beach, and it was an education that criticized religion and the Church.” “) The final blow came in May, 1961, when the government took over all remaining private schools, both parochial and non-parochial, and then closed them, displacing some 100,000 students.( n54)” ’ Events surrounding the feast day of the Virgen de la Caridad del Cobre in 1961 also help to explain the historiography of the revolution. The Virgin of Charity of Copper, a figure as celebrated in Cuban history as the Virgin of Guadalupe in Mexican history, continues to influence Cuban identity, despite the efforts of the revolution to minimize her importance. Castro refused to allow the Church to celebrate the feast day on September 8, but did grant permission for September 10. When the procession left the church, the police and their supporters attacked it, wounding ten and killing Arnaldo Socorro, a young student. The following day the government claimed that Socorro had been killed by "falangist priests" bent on destroying the revolution. The government buried him as a hero, claiming that "reactionary priests" continued to serve the interests of "Yankee imperialists."( n57) The war of violence and propaganda would continue.” El Jigue 1-26-06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 19:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Great quotes and sources EJ, certainly should be incorporated into the Religion in Cuba page.--Zleitzen 14:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Signing Posts

Hello, Zleitzen. I've noticed 'Little Joe/EJ's IP address page, is being peppered with 'sign your posts' advice from HagermanBot. Hope 'Little Joe' agrees to those instructions. Hopefully his 'not signing posts' doesn't lead to blocks. GoodDay 22:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aureliano, thanks for your concern. In my view the "robots" attention is kind of touching. BTW I left at note on the Che Guevara page discussion which reads:

Guevara and executions

Fuentes, Norberto 2004 La Autobiografía de Fidel Castro. Destino Ediciones. Barcelona, Editora Planeta Mexicana, Mexico D.F. ISBN 8423336042. ISBN 9707490012 pp. 695-696 Lists four "traitors" secretly executed before the Granma left Mexico these were Jesus Bello Melgarejo, Arturo Avalos Marcos, Cirilio Guerra plus a fourth unnamed individual. One was said executed by Raul Castro. This leaves three who could have been executed by the Che. Now I do not completely trust Fuentes as a source, not because he does not know, but because he follows "line" that is suspiciously closer to the present Cuban government official dogma than I would like. BTW on page 692 Joaquin Ordoqui, is quoted as saying the Antonio Blanco Rico, Batista's chief of Military Intelligence (who was assassinated in Havana before Castro landed in 1956) was a member of the Cuban Communist Party. This can be taken to suggest that the Cuban communist party as usual was playing both sides of the fence. On page 696 this author states that Guevara was in Mexico for two years and three months which is sufficient time for quite a lot of things. El Jigue 1-27-07

Thanks again EJ, more food for thought and this information has been noted. Apparently, the graves of those executed in Mexico remain to this day. I understood those executions to be the responsibility of Fidel's "council" and I might be wrong but at least one of these men was executed by Fidel himself. I'm not sure if Guevara, who was not yet an integral figure at that time was directly involved. This would be an area that I imagine Polaris would have some further details on.--Zleitzen 19:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It would seem that Fidel Castro has never been reported to carry out a murder personally, attempted murder yes in his student days, but not successful killings. Thus if this could be documented it would be of singular interest. Now Raul had no problems with this and neither did Guevara. One must be aware that at the present time Raul according to some reports is trying to shift all blame on Guevara, and thus present himself as "clean." Raul could be expected to have difficulty with this since his killings are well documented. One wonders if the bodies in Mexico can be dug up, bodies buried on beaches might be "lost." Still the present Mexican Government might be interested... According to word of mouth (oral tradition) Guevara had a grave yard, which was called "La Hortaliza" which could be anywhere along the main ridge of the Sierra Maestra, and from below the heights of El Oro on the upper Bayamo River to perhaps at la Pata de Mesa below Las Minas de Frio. At least some of Fidel Castro ordered execution were said carried out in a small valley labeled "Puerto Malanga" near the heights of La Plata (Castro's main "Comandancia"). Other reported execution sites include the Universo Sanchez's comandancia at Pe~na Prieta, and some at Fidel Castro's last rebel headquarters at the sugar mill "Central Oriente." El Jigue 1-27-07.

Health care redux

There are two articles in the Miami Herald to day on heathcare in Cuba, one of them takes the official data as approximately true [16] placed on the "front page," while the other more carefully examines this data [17]. It might be wise to accesss them now. "Un dia sin sol naci..." Marti's birthdate. El Jigue 1-28-06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 15:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Thanks yet again EJ, good articles indeed. I'm limiting my activities at the moment (though I am tempted to improve the article on the Cabildos where your help would be invaluable). But as per usual all your sources and comments remain on record and will be incorporated in some fashion. I know that the Health stats are a regular bug bear of yours. Of course, the stats are massaged (as they are everywhere in the world) and there appears to be some serious issues that the government are obviously reluctant to export. Also, I like the authenticity of Hilda Molina and have quoted her on a few articles on wikipedia. As far as I'm concerned, she is the essential, credible, critical voice to counter the official stories that pour out. I tried to base criticisms of the healthcare system around her writings on the healthcare page, but it got bogged down and submerged by a load of silly baloney from the US government that an editor repeatedly foisted on the page, which stank to high heaven and actually detracted from the key specific criticisms. It left me disillusioned with the whole process. Of course, Hilda will always be remembered for being at the centre of the storm that sent Castro into that one rage too far!!!! I recall your words having viewed the infamous balconey clip, noting that Fidel had finally lost all control of his senses. Only a few days later he had lost control of his bowels. Eek!--Zleitzen 04:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: Thank you for your kind words, will visit Cabildos article soon. Just to keep you in the loop the item below was posted previously to the Guevara discussion:

new details on Guevara

There is a new reference (unfortunately for some in Spanish):

Arzuaga, Javier 2006 (accessed 1-29-07) Complete Radio interview on executions in la Cabaña in 1959 and related topics interviewed by Guillermo Toledo and others on El Programa Radial Magazine Cubano on 12-17-06. Transcript from ContactCuba. Com [18]

This reference has a number of odd spellings (e.g. Autilio instead of Eutimio) however, it contains novel information such as the execution of the killers in the Humbolt 7 murders, an event we know now to have been triggered by a communist party informant ("Marquito" I think). While the death of Ariel Lima a 16 year old, and anti-Batista resistance activist, who had turned informer to avoid the rape of his mother, was immediate. This together with such known Guevara acts as keeping BRAC files secret, strongly suggests that the Che was interested in "whitewashing" communist party's colaboration with Batista by informing on other resistance leaders. In addition the previously cited attribution of communist party affiliation (by Fuentes) of Colonel Blanco Rico the head of Batista Military Intelligence (SIM), also detracts from the credibility of details in Guevara's accounts of the war against Batista, and can be taken to suggest the possibility of bias beyond that of an expected military leader's self-serving statements. Another interesting statement found in this reference is the suggestion that partisans of Raul Castro are at present trying (as mentioned before) to burden Guevara with Raul's own actions. There is reference to Arzuaga's new book "Cuba 1959: La Galera de muerte" which I have not yet read. El Jigue 1-29-0617:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC) (most odd all I did was put in tildes)

Manuel Artime Buesa

Filled in a little on Manuel Artime page

Manuel Artime Buesa (29 January 1932 - 18 November 1977) , joined with Castro rebels in late 1958; was a Cuban soldier in the United States. He led the Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961.

Hunt (p. 47) places Artime in 1958 with as a member of Castro forces at Guisa, Maffo and Palma Soriano actions. This is credible since he acted in military capacity during the Bay of Pigs Invasion. He had a degree in Medicine and perhaps served as a medic since rebel losses in those actions were not negligible. After the war against Batista was over he became an official in the INRA (Instituto National de Reforma Agraria), in the Ciro Redondo (that would include Agua Reves where Ciro Redondo was killed on the main ridge of the Sierra Maestra) and as such implies what Hunt says is true. A devout Catholic apparently he was involved in an early (January 26) agrarian rebellion of Catholics (Comandos Rurales)in that area where he met Comandante Sori Marin and Rogelio Gonzalez Corso (see Pedro Corso p. 14).

Corzo, Pedro 2003 Cuba Cronología de la lucha contra el totalitarismo. Ediciones Memorias, Miami. ISBN 1890829242

Hunt, E. Howard 1973 Give us this day. Arlington House, New Rochelle, N.Y. ISBN-10 0870002287 ISBN-13: 978-0870002281 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 23:08, 31 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

El Jigue 1-29-07

Z this is a revised version, I would appreciate it if you addressed the obvious flaws in my writing El Jigue 2-1-07\:

Wikipedia revised

Manuel Artime Buesa (29 January 1932 - 18 November 1977), joined with Castro rebels in late 1958; was a Cuban soldier in the United States. He led the Bay of Pigs invasion in 1961. Hunt (p. 47) places Artime in 1958 with as a member of Castro forces at Guisa, Maffo and Palma Soriano actions. This action at Maffo may well have placed him in contact with Rebel Lieutenant Cipriano Beatón Martínez (see last plate in the Dickey Chapelle’s 1962 book labeled “La Maya Oriente Province Cuba, December 1958 Lt. Cypriano…” Cipriano was executed for rebellion against Castro June 15th 1960, Corzo p. 36).

After the war against Batista was over Artime became an official in the INRA (Instituto Nacional de Reforma Agraria), in the Ciro Redondo district (that would include Agua Revés where Ciro Redondo was killed on the main ridge of the Sierra Maestra) this was agrarian Zone then under the direction of of Comandante René “Bujero” Vallejo and as such implies what Hunt says is true. A devout Catholic apparently he was involved in an early (January 26) promoting Catholic style (e.g. small holdings) agrarian reform (Comandos Rurales) in that area where he was in contract with Comandante Humberto Sorí Marin and Rogelio Gonzalez Corzo (see Pedro Corzo p. 14). Both Sorí Marin and Rogelio Gonzalez were captured on the eve of the Bay of Pigs Invasion and executed on the 20th (Corzo p. 92; Ros pp. 181-185 and others).

Hunt’s assertion that Artime participated in actions against Batista is credible (although denigrated by Cuban government partisans [19]), since he showed courage during the Bay of Pigs actions,. He had a degree in Medicine and perhaps served as a medic during the war against Batista since rebel losses in the above mentioned actions were not negligible.

Artime was said to have been the civilian leader of Cuba if the Bay of Pigs Invasion had succeeded was not among the civilian leadership held incommunicado 17th to 20th of April 1961 at Opalocka Florida until the invasion failed (Ros, pp. 252-253). He landed as leader with the expedition and was captured after two weeks [20], and is maligned by Cuban government supporters e.g. [21]. He lead several expeditions against Castro after that. He died of cancer November 18th 1977 [22] [23], he was 45. The circumstances of his premature death are considered unusual on both sides of the Florida e.g. Straits [24], [25], [26], but to date such comments are commonly considered speculative.

Good work EJ. I've put it on my watchlist and will hopefully put some additional work in when time allows. The page has reminded me that there is no article yet on Manuel Ray who seems to be a character most worthy of inclusion. --Zleitzen 00:33, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

References

Chapelle, Dickey 1962 What's a woman doing here?: A reporter's report on herself Morrow New York ASIN B0006AXN80

Corzo, Pedro 2003 Cuba Cronología de la lucha contra el totalitarismo. Ediciones Memorias, Miami. ISBN 1890829242

Hunt, E. Howard 1973 Give us this day. Arlington House, New Rochelle, N.Y. ISBN-10 0870002287 ISBN-13: 978-0870002281

Ros, Enrique 1994 (1998) Giron la verdadera historia. Ediciones Universales (Colección Cuba y sus jueces) third edition Miami ISBN 0-89729-738-5

Thank you for the editing of Manuel Artime article

Z: Thank you perhaps a Humberto Sori Marin might take precedence over Manolo Ray. What are your thoughts on the matter. BTW an appendix to this Enrique Ros book pp. 287-298 gives the names of Bay of Pigs veterans who became officers in the US Army in Vietnam, these names include 6 colonels, 19 Lt Colonels, 9 Majors, and 29 Captains. El Jigüe 2-2-07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 20:29, 2 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Ultramarine.

I see that you too have come across him and his systematic botchering of articles. As a fairly inactive member on the English Wikipedia I do not know what ways there are to reach a consensus, such as a mediation group as on other language versions. Do you know of any ways to prevent him from deleting any content he dislikes else than restoring it and continuing the endless circle that almost can be seen as edit warring? --Nyp 16:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sexual objectificcation

I submitted a photo to sexual objectification of women in panties heels and nothing else vacuuming; it's of a fashion show by Imitation of Christ, a well-known label. Several editors want NO images on the page, but I think this one is pretty clear: at a fashion show, these topless models vacuuming in heels shows women objectified sexually. Could you interject with your opinion please? Talk:Sexual_objectification#Request_for_Comment--DavidShankBone 04:08, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Soviet Advisors to Cuban forces

Z: I have added this section to Bay of Pigs Invasion

(Saw some comments that might be inferred to sully my El Jigue persona (:>), wish people who write them would have experienced those days in Cuba and/or had read more Cuban history.)

Castro militia, artillery, and intelligence service were trained and directed by Spanish speaking Hispano-Russian officers, by Raul Castro's admission these were necessary to field a regular army [27]; the most senior of these were Francisco Ciutat de Miguel, Enrique Lister, and Alberto Bayo (Paz, 2001, pp 189-199). Ciutat de Miguel (Masonic name: Algazel; Russian name: Pavel Pablovich Stepanov; Cuban alias: Ángel Martínez Riosola) is said to have arrived the same day as La Coubre explosion and was wounded in the foot during the War Against the Bandits, the type of wound that is common to senior officers observing combat at the edge of effective rifle range. Date of wound is not given in references cited [28], [29]. This wound may have been received during the action blocking the Escambray mountains during the Invasion.

Since the Raul cite is from 2006 it could be taken to suggest that Raul is trying to diminish his elder brother's habit of taking all the credit. After all it was Raul who brought the Hispano- russians into Cuba in 1959-1960.

Che Guevara was in Oriente Province lured away by Nino Diaz’s feints. El Jigue 2-5-07

de Paz-Sánchez, Manuel 2001 Zona de Guerra, España y la revolución Cubana (1960-1962), Taller de Historia, Tenerife Gran Canaria ISBN 8479263644 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.188.149 (talk) 22:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Z: remember no good deed goes unpunished, the deed itself is its own reward. El Jigue 2-5-07208.65.188.149 00:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cuban Healthcare

I see that this article seems to be being mangled by ultramarine again-should we organise more resistance against this again?Felix-felix 14:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's just a mess, Felix. Even small things like the editor in question repeatedly stubbing the lead down to 1-2 sentences against style guidelines - without any explanation - grates. I find collaborating with this editor to be by far the single most depressing and demeaning experience I have had at wikipedia. And I'm far from alone in thinking this, virtually all collaborators appear to come away with the same sense it seems. As I have stated before, one of the worst aspects of that article is it actively obscures the serious criticisms of Cuban doctors who have sacrificed their careers and more to highlight specific issues with the system.

I don't think organising resistance is really in the spirit of the process, but then, this editor's whole demeanour appears to be one long edit war over many pages for years and is itself the antithesis of the wikpedia process. Recently a link on the page, which informed the readers of the advances made in Cuba during the 19th century against yellow fever, went dead. So the editor arbitarily removed a whole uncontroversial paragraph which detailed this. With no discussion, without even adding "source needed", and with no attempts to find alternative sources for the well covered topic. It's typical and unsurprising. Numerous articles have been choked into a collection of badly worded arguments and incoherent fragments by this editor, with eccentric POV forks and bad writing all over the place. By the way, when editors point out the failings of these methods, they are accused of conducting an "ad hominem attack" and of having "lost the argument"! I'm too old to debate on the level this user inhabits in the first place, that I have done so leaves me with no sense of pride. But its a shame to see work go down the pan at the hands of such relentless counter-productive editing and wilful belligerence. --Zleitzen 15:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Z: this kind of nonsense is one of the main weaknesses of Wikipedia. Just today an uniformed contributor removed all mention of Hispano/Soviet involvement in the Bay of Pigs Invasion article; I and apparently others restored it; however, I am sure that this restoration will not last. El Jigue 2-7-07208.65.188.149 19:56, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Francisco Ciutat de Miguel

Z: Working on Francisco Ciutat de Miguel former officer in the Spanish Civil War, who when to Russia and was trained and apparently fought as a general in WW II, in Cuba he was responsible for repressing the resistance he named bandits in the War Against the Bandits he was wounded there, and also was the top hispano/soviet officer during the Bay of Pigs Invasion. There are a number of citations I left at the Bay of Pigs Invasion site. Apparently most have not heard of him but he played an extremely important role in Cuba, as confirmed even by Raul Castro. Could you start a stub on him..... El Jigue 2-7-07208.65.188.149 19:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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