Featured pictures are images that add significantly to articles, either by illustrating article content particularly well, or being eye-catching to the point where users will want to read its accompanying article. Taking the adage that "a picture is worth a thousand words," the images featured on Wikipedia:Featured pictures should illustrate a Wikipedia article in such a way as to add significantly to that article, according to the featured picture criteria.
If you believe an image should be featured, please add it below to the current nominations section. Conversely, if you believe that an image should be unfeatured, add it to the nomination for delisting section.
For promotion, if an image is listed here for seven days with four or more supporting votes (including the nominator), and the consensus is in its favor, it can be added to the Wikipedia:Featured pictures list. Consensus in Featured picture candidates is generally regarded to be a two-third majority in support. Note however that anonymous votes are generally disregarded, as are votes of sockpuppets. If necessary, decisions about close votes will be made on a case-by-case basis.
The archive contains all votes and comments collected on this page, and also vote tabulations.
If you nominate an image here, please consider also uploading and nominating it at Commons, to help ensure that the pictures can be used not just in the English Wikipedia but on all other Wikimedia projects as well.
Please read Featured picture criteria on how to evaluate nominations. Most users reference terms from this page when evaluating your nomination.
Step 2: Create a subpage
Create a page to place the image on; this page needs to be a subpage of Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. To create your own subpage, add a title for the image you want to nominate in the field below (for example, Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Labrador Retriever). Click the "Create new nomination" button.
For Delists (or Delist & Replace)
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Supporting and opposing
If you approve of a picture, write Support followed by your reasons.
If you oppose a nomination, write Oppose followed by your reasons. Where possible, objections should provide a specific rationale that can be addressed.
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Votes added early in the process may be disregarded if they do not give any reasons for the opposition. This is especially true if the image is altered during the process. Editors are advised to monitor the progress of a nomination and update their votes accordingly.
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Note that on a LCD display (laptop or flat screen) the viewing angle strongly affects these images.
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Editing candidates
If you feel you could improve a candidate by image editing, please feel free to do so, but do not overwrite or remove the original. Instead, upload your edit with a different file name (e.g. add "edit" to the file name), and display it below the original nomination. Edits should be appropriately captioned in sequential order (eg, Edit 1, Edit 2, etc) and describe the modifications that have been applied.
The Virginia Opossum (Didelphis virginiana) is the only marsupial found in North America. A solitary and nocturnal animal about the size of a domestic cat, it is a successful opportunist and is found throughout North America from coast to coast (introduced to California in 1910), and from Central America and Mexico to southern Canada .AlternativeAlternative 2
Support (original image) What's with the interface between the tail and body in the original? If someone can explain to me what is going on there, and convince me that there are no edits to the actual opossum in the original (finger placement, tail, ect.) I'll support. Otherwise, I oppose. It is a very pretty picture, but I don't think featured pictures should be misleading about their subjects. One minor thing that bothers me is how its eyes look; not having seen an opossum in the daytime, I think it might just be that opossums have funny eyes, but does anyone know? Enuja03:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
CommentNot sure about the eyes, Enuja. He was out during the winter and he was out during the day neither of which are normal for opossums. --Cody.Pope08:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support The tail is going behind a twig first and then the big branch that's all. No edits at all, only some minor color tweaking when converting from RAW to jpg (also cropping, obviously). Also, concerning the full size version display, I tend to save my jpgs as 5-scan-progressive which means that your browser will load the image five times, which each scan getting progressively clearer (you won't notice this at all on fast connections); so you may need to wait a sec for a clearer version (the advantage being that the file sizes tends to be smaller for the same quality image, I think). --Cody.Pope06:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support awesome possum! I've seen opossums during the day before, although it's rare (usually you just see them dead on the road or not at all) and this is a great depiction of one. The way he's sitting stock-still in a tree like that is absolutely typical. I once almost walked straight under one without seeing it until a friend pointed it out. Mak(talk)17:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support and comment (original) Like HeretoHelp, I too seem to have difficulty downloading the fullsize image, and not just because the download takes a long time. It just stops, says done, with nothing on the screen. This should be worked out before nomination. However, I think the picture is very good quality, especially in capturing an opossum in daylight. --Asiir20:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I had the same trouble, but I purged the page and then purged my cache and it was fine. I wonder why the problem is persisting. Perhaps a re-upload is in order? Mak(talk)20:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I can't vote on the original since it isn't loading for me. It just stops. I've tried clearing my cache, but nothing works. Anyway, I don't support alternative or alternative 2. While the face of the animal is in focuse, much of the lower half is not. It seems as if the twig in front of the animal grabbed the focus, so the animal's tail and feet are all blurry. --Mad Max04:00, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Eh I'm not really sure why there are so many problems with viewing -- progressive scan is supposed to be a standard. On Sunday Monday I'll re-upload as jpeg basic. If you're having problems, could you please leave a message on my talk page, telling me what browser/OS you're using. Thanks. --Cody.Pope07:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Osteorpermum ecklonis, or African Daisy, is a species of shrub belonging to the Asteraceae family, the same of sunflowers. It is a perennial plant, 60cm to 1m tall, normally grown as annual. The flowers are daisy-shaped, white or bluish, blooming in summer or early autumn, and the leaves are green and elliptic.
weak oppose Beautiful picture, but not very encyclopedic. Yes, flowers are most the important diagnostic feature of flowering plants, but it helps to be able to see other parts, as in the oft-quoted cut lemon shot. In the case of pictures to identify plants, I think we should insist on foliage, although some way to include roots and seeds would be superb. Also, I'm not a big fan of the pale, slightly washed out lower and left petals, especially in the larger versions. Enuja07:28, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Very weak oppose, this would probably be great on commons, but as an encyclopaedic image I'm just not seeing it here, sorry. :( --Golbez23:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A lens glare art does not make. Personally, I don't find beautiful things that make me flinch or wince (it looks so bright), and I don't see how it's particularly encyclopedic. Very few buildings can actually be made out, and it looks like there is dirt or smudge on the lens, making the shadowed buildings even harder to see. Enuja07:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Try putting the sun *behind* you next time. That will avoid the unpleasant lens flare and overexposed centre part of the image. Stevage05:54, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Technical shortcomings ruin it for me. Edge unsharpness and slight overall blurryness, flat shadow without details, but considerable noise, and a slight tilt (especially noticable on the right edge of the frame). --Dschwen20:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeE4T5A8 Very atmospheric shot, but not very high technical quality, and among the gazillions of photos taken every year in SF it's certainly not the most encyclopedic shot of the Port. ~ trialsanderrors02:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Exposure looks perfect to me. Just the right amount of accent white. Also I didn't notice any artifacts. Fg207:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The exposure looks pretty good to be too, but look at the bottom - the white areas fade into the artificial background and it is difficult to see the definition of the biscuit. Also, it looks a bit 'overcooked' (no pun intended) - there are some definite dithering and posterization issues in the detail. Diliff | (Talk)(Contribs)08:24, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I do see what you mean about the bottom blending in with the white background (which I presume is a light table). Fg2 10:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC) But at full res, it looks distinct. Fg210:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Illustrates the subject in question, but is not among Wikipedia's best work in my opinion (and it doesn't make me want to eat a sausage biscuit).-Wutschwlllm13:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. High-quality shot and it really does look quite tasty. Don't know what everyone else is talking about --frotht13:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The crossed keys symbolize the keys of Simon Peter. The keys are gold and silver to represent the power of binding and loosing given to the Church. The triple crown (the tiara) represents the pope's three functions as "supreme pastor", "supreme teacher" and "supreme priest". The gold cross surmounting the triple crowns symbolizes the crucifixion of Jesus.File:Holysee-arms.png(Not nominated) For comparison: The coat of arms of the Holy See.
Reason
It has a good caption, it's pleasing to the eye, and it's of high quality.
Suspending my support for the moment, there are a number of differences between the one on the Vatican website and this one, and I'd like to see non-Wiki sourcing that establishes the accuracy of this version. ~ trialsanderrors22:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose until I can figure out what exactly this is representing. It's brilliantly done... but all of the source images are for different emblems. Nothing tells me that this SVG represents an emblem officially used by the Vatican. If it is it will have a strong strong support. I should note that I don't think it's supposed to represent any of its three sources or the image trialanderror linked to... but, is this a specific pope's emblem? We just need more info. grenグレン18:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's this one, scroll down to "Coat of Arms of the Holy See and of the State of Vatican City". There are some differences, but I can't tell if they're relevant in Heraldry. Artists have a certain amount of license when creating their versions of coats of arms. ~ trialsanderrors20:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there is license in this regard... this is not just differences in proportions.... this is differences in colors, etc. and they really need to be explained. It looks nice and they did a great job on it but it needs to represent something in reality to be used in an encyclopedic article.... we can't just go around changing heraldry emblems. grenグレン12:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support, if only to piss off people who hate SVG logos. One question, should the hanging tassel in the center be in front of the one going side to side? It is in the vatican's version. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 05:37, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Partial support. The papal emblem looks fine and is well done. However, it does not belong on the page Coat of arms of the Holy See since it is not the coat (missing important elements required by heraldry conventions & Vatican law; see my note below). Maybe use it on the Pope page? Perhaps also use it to explain the differences between the two? Pmadrid21:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would love to support, but I think it's not accurate and it can be done a bit better (maybe a matter of taste). --Arad20:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In heraldry a large amount of flexibility is allowed for the artist's imagination - it's accurate if it corresponds to the blazon, which is "two keys in saltire or and argent, interlaced in the rings or, beneath a tiara argent, crowned or." How the lappets are curled, or whether the ropes pass in front or behind, doesn't matter. How specifically is this considered inaccurate? Gimmetrow15:55, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's pretty much the answer I expected. I know there is limited freedom in rendering heraldic symbols, I just wasn't sure how much. Thanks! ~ trialsanderrors05:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The papal emblem is indeed used on the Holy See's coat of arms, but with two important differences. (1) It is displayed on a red shield, as gimmetrow properly acknowledged. (2) It's interlaced cord is changed to gold (interlaced in the rings or in blazon) in order to comply with heraldry rules. If you note, the papal emblem (not the coat) is displayed on the Vatican flag with the red cord, so I really have no problem with the image as displayed here. I just don't think it goes on Coat of arms of the Holy See since the blazon in the fundamental law requires a red field and a gold cord, and this image omits both. It could be used somewhere else, though, as it's a fine rendition of the papal insignia despite it failing as the coat of arms of the Holy See and Vatican City. Pmadrid21:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds more like the article should be expanded or merged than that the nomination withdrawn, especially since the website uses them in conjunction (similarly, the Coat of arms of Germany shows the Bundesadler both on golden shield and neutral background). I don't have access to the actual codex (which I just added as reference), so I don't know how reliable the Vatican website is in that regard. I'd say the best solution would be to also create a version on red shield, but sadly the creator hasn't respondend to a request to comment here. ~ trialsanderrors23:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Although the Vatican site shows both the emblem and the coat together, this isn't necessarily something to follow. The Vatican site does not distinguish the Vatican arms from the arms of the Holy See, although other authors do. Also the Vatican site shows the "coat of arms" with a red cord on a red shield, and the ropes untied. The coat of arms is sufficiently confusing that the emblem just adds to the confusion, unless it were contrasted and explained very well. Gimmetrow23:11, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Trialsanderrors, your solution (creating a version on a red shield) would work; however, the cord would need to be changed from red to gold. Otherwise, you'd not only have a coat of arms violating a fundamental heraldry rule (no color on color) but also not conforming to the blazon prescribed by law (interlaced in the rings or). While heraldry gives artists considerable license in rendering the arms, it does not give them licence to ignore prescribed charges or tinctures.
Besides, this is a fine rendition of the papal insignia as it appears on the Vatican flag, and I don't think it should be defeated merely because it is not a proper rendition of the Holy See's coat of arms, which is not on the Vatican flag. I think a solution for the time being might be to place the picture on Papal regalia and insignia, remove the emblem from Coat of arms of the Holy See, and start working on an svg version of properly rendered arms. This would also allow the nomination to continue. Pmadrid01:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, I don't see a problem with this as the emblem. (Was it taken from a svg version of the flag to begin with?) Determining the accuracy of both Image:Coa Vatican.svg and Image:Holysee-arms.png is a separate issue. The Vatican site says in text that the rope can be red. Also the personal coats of arms of popes usually have the rope untied, so this may be significant on the corporate arms. Gimmetrow02:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I'm the author of the image (Trialsanderrors call me in my Italian thalk page). I've done it from this image and this one. If you need some corrections, please ask me and I manage to satisfy your requests. Cheers, F l a n k e r09:34, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think we figured it out, but if you're able to create an svg of the coat of arms that would be much appreciated. Thanks for stopping by. ~ trialsanderrors19:09, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(De-indent) If the Vatican was concerned about little things like this, they'd publish an official version (probably raster) that we could faithfully vectorize. If they don't publish an official copy of the emblem, who's to say this isn't accurate?--HereToHelp18:17, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is of course an official text: Acta Apostolicae Sedis, Supplement, 01.02.2001, Attachment B. I don't think the good people at the Vatican are quite as web-savvy as the average Wikipedian though. ~ trialsanderrors19:09, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the onus is on us not to commit original research. My opinion in brief: I feel very wary about creating any emblem/logo that we don't have an example to copy from because, it may be in the guidelines, it may not be. Maybe someone should e-mail the Vatican PR and say "is this a proper version of your emblem" --grenグレン09:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is not "a proper way" because is a very old emblem-coat of arms, so it is been represented on portals, documents, monuments, flags, and many more things, in many different shapings (like many others coats in Italy...). That's all. And it is not a big deal. --F l a n k e r12:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Checking into what the Acta says would not be original research. It would simply be going to the primary source (legislation) and checking as to how far it specifies the design, whether by color picture, blazon, or whatever. If you object to going to primary sources and are insisting on reliance on secondary sources, then there is at least one herald, the late Archbishop Heim (the personal herald of Pope John XXIII), who distinguishes between the Papal emblem (tiara, crossed keys, red cord, not on a shield but could be on a lot of stuff like the flag of the Vatican City) and the Coat of Arms of the Holy See (red shield, tiara, crossed keys, gold cord). See his book Heraldry in the Catholic Church: Its Origins, Customs, and Laws. So at least one heraldry scholar of repute denounces a red shield-red cord or a no shield-red cord version of the Holy See's coat of arms and supports the idea of a red-cord Papal emblem, and thus supports the proposition that this picture is an accurate depiction of the Papal tiara/crossed keys emblem.
Other secondary sources are extraordinarily ambiguous. The text of the blazon from the Holy See's own website supports a differentiation, since for the coat of arms it uses a blazon which specifically says interlaced in the rings or (put a gold cord between the rings) and has examples that are not the Holy See's coat of arms (such as the Vatican flag and John Paul II's personal arms) using a red cord version. Despite this differentiation, right above the blazon it displays a red cord red shield version. What is up with that??? Later on the same page says the cord can be red or blue. Both of these contradict the explicit text of the blazon provided on the page. So, either both the provided blazon and Archbishop Heim are wrong or the website is wrong. This is why simply using secondary sources in this case is unacceptable. There's too many ambiguities, and going to the Acta, the primary source on what is the coat of arms and what is the emblem, would be useful to resolve the discrepancy.
Let's not forget though, as Gimmetrow has accurately pointed out, that this page's debate should not be about whether this picture is an accurate depiction of the coat of arms of the holy see. It should instead be whether this depiction of the tiara and keys, a traditional emblem of the Papacy used in many contexts other than the principal charge on a corporate coat of arms (flags, behind Papal personal arms, etc), is proper. I think it is. Pmadrid17:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
F l a n k e r, I'm not saying that there is a proper way and I (have come to) realize that there are many ways to represent the old, non-standardized emblems. I believe we could use any version that has previously been used in history and it would be fine. My worry is that--even if it may be a possible proper representation of the papacy--the first time this version has ever been used is on Wikipedia which makes me uncomfortable with its usage. I am not disputing anything of what you have said about it being proper heraldry, I am just worried that without this version having been used before it (while accurate) is still creating new work. That being said, if I am the only one still very wary about this do not let me keep this nomination held up. grenグレン03:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I can see the problem, but I can't see the solution. If someone can find a good image (good for all of you), I can try to make a new emblem. --F l a n k e r15:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Question. Looking at the official coat of arms, is the SVG not incorrect because the gold key points right instead of left, and vice versa for the silver key? Pstuart84Talk09:56, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The gold key must points to the right in the Coat of Arms of the Holy See and of the State of Vatican City, the same for the flag. In the Coat of Arms of the popes I've noticed the different disposition but I can't explain why (www.vatican.va). --F l a n k e r17:57, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To answer my own question: "The coat of arms of the Holy See. That of the State of Vatican City is the same except that the positions of the gold and silver keys are interchanged." [1] - Pstuart84Talk16:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not promoted Several issues and no consensus. Please feel free to nominate this image again in future after considering the feedback. --—Pengo05:16, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Jolly Roger is the traditional flag of European and Americanpirates. In early Roman times through the Middle Ages, skulls and long bones were on display in catacombs, churches, and graveyards to serve as a reminder of your own death. Thus, it became a common symbol of death and decay. It might seem a bad idea to forewarn a quarry by flying the Jolly Roger; however, its use may be seen as an early form of psychological warfare.
Reason
I think this is a good use of the SVG format, and it is a commonly used and encyclopedic flag.
Have a look at this page and you'll see why that's a rather silly reason to support this picture. I oppose, as it doesn't properly meet the size requirement. PhoenixTwo22:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I don't feel it properly represents the subject. It seems very childish in a way. It's also only 800x500, which doesn't meet the size requirement. The upside-down heart for a nose doesn't really look to great either. 24.239.185.95 22:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC) Please log in to vote. HereToHelp01:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: I agree with Froth. I think the picture is rather simplistic and childish- unless there was evidence that a flag looking exactly like that was used, I think it is a no. Otherwise, it should be portrayed as the flag of that individual or group, rather than a generic Jolly Roger. J Milburn23:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reply I chose this version because I felt it was the most encyclopedic. There is a whole, and rather large, article on this flag. It is also the basis of all the other permutations of similar flags such as the one of Calico Jack. Many good SVGs exist for the different permutations of this flag that are particular to a pirate, but articles are not written on those; this is the main flag. Basar03:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't realize there were so many good flags. Perhaps flags should be exempt from FP; if that is the case, consider this nomination withdrawn. Basar15:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think they should be exempt, but we should go through the svg designs and look for the one that shows a high level of creative effort, accuracy and provides detailed info on the image page. ~ trialsanderrors17:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, featured pictures are the best images Wikipedia has to offer, and this applies to the flags as well. If there is an exceptional flag, as you described, then it may be nominated. I just don't feel that this particular flag is exceptional. --Tewy19:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I thought I remembered a discussion about NOT allowing flag images. Someone had nominated a Union Jack (or something similar) at one point, but now I can't seem to find the discussion in the archives. howcheng {chat}21:47, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I've seen a lot of Jolly Rogers in my day, and I must say this is the cutest version I've ever seen. Problem is, the Jolly Rogers isn't supposed to look cute! It's supposed to look ominous and foreboding. Maybe even intimidating. Kaldari21:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I have thought about this a lot, and I have decided to stick with my vote. If we accept this, we are setting a precedent that flags will get through. Though I admit some definately are featured picture worthy (Image:Austria Bundesadler.svg, for example) if we accept this, then almost all of the flags in the linked category (including flags such as the Japanese one, which would be ridiculous) would basically have a 'right' to FP status. J Milburn11:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment A better, extended caption is needed before some people will support this picture. It is a FP criterion. What are those small white lines throughout the picture? Basar18:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment So sorry... I found this while surfing from one Wikarticle to another, via "See Also...". Anyway, since it is a satallite photo, I assume the white lines are similar to the ones in this photo, used by the techinicians at NASA for measuring distances. I think they are called "reticles". Does this exclude the pic from FPC status?
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude when I said it would need an extended caption, it's just that some people have recently decided to be stricter about that. I don't know if the lines exclude the picture. Perhaps there is a version where they aren't present or maybe someone could edit them out. The picture is also not very prominent in that article right now. Maybe it could be used in the Edward's AFB article too. Basar19:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Why is it in black and white; it's still there isn't it? And it does need a better caption: those lines actually exist! It looked Photoshopped at first. I support nonetheless.--HereToHelp23:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose because the vanilla Google Maps satellite image is in color and at comparable resolution; surely there must exist a high-rez, color, satellite image of this that would be more suitable for FP. It's a really cool subject though. Spebudmak01:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support edit - I personally don't think that color adds much to this image, and the visibility of the actual subject of the picture -- the rose -- is much lower in the Google version. I took out the yellow whiskers. --TotoBaggins01:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose 1. Needs a caption. 2. Not very encyclopedic, not particular high quality, and not that eye-catching: E4T5A6. (The subject OTOH might be feature-worthy with a better picture.) ~ trialsanderrors07:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment OMG GIGANTIC CROP CIRCLES!!! This is definitive proof that a) Aliens use crop circles to navigate, b) The government knows about it, and c) Worst of all, the government supports it! 66.109.229.101 (talk·contribs) 12:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Clarification - The color version is a copy-vio-illegal-for-the-front-page-or-any-other-page... thing. I only put it there to encourage people to finda a fair use or some such copyright-free image... The black-and-whites are the noms here... 'WiiWillieWiki(talk)14:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Good quality, and an overall interesting image. I would probably go for either of the first two, not the colored version. └Jared┘┌talk┐17:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
English actor David Garrick as the titular role in Shakespeare's Richard III as painted by William Hogarth. The scene depicted is Act V, Scene 3 where, on the eve of the battle of Bosworth Field, Richard is visited by the ghosts of those he has murdered. They warn of his death and he awakes to the realization that he is liked by no one.Alternative version.
Reason
David Garrick was one of the most painted individuals of his time, but this is really the most arresting image of him. Garrick was one of the first actors to use a naturalistic style of acting and while we only have descriptions of his performance and paintings of him in character, this image comes the closest of any of them to portraying the power of his performance.
Neutral high quality, oppose nom. Malemi's version is larger (the other is too small to qualify) and has better colors. It also has a layer of colorful noise on it.--HereToHelp23:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
An example of the entire post-processing effort used to make a viewable "HDR" image in one depiction (if requested, all exposure brackets can be uploaded).
Comment: it looks to me as if you could have gotten the same result by just tweaking the gamma curves of the 0.0/f offset exposure. The subject isn't really calling for such a long exposure series and HDR as far as I can see. More details on the tonemapping algorithm (and the software) used would be a plus for the caption too. --Dschwen08:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Dschwen here. It looks like there were no blown highlights on any of the exposures apart from +1.33. You could have achieved much the same result from post-processing the +1.0 exposure I think. In fact, apart from a more subtle gradient from left to right in the sky, I don't see how the end result is significantly different from the +1.0 exposure apart from being a bit soft from the stacking... A very aesthetic scene (where is it?) but doesn't really do justice to tone mapping for me. Diliff | (Talk)(Contribs)08:44, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'd almost agree, accept that no matter how you tweak either the 0.00ev or the 1.00ev, details are always lost (especially along the coast and in the sky as you said). You can grab the originals (Nikon RAW) at 0.00ev NEF or 1.00ev NEF. The point of this blending was to to find the subtly in color without making a surreal image -- hence the actually small exposure range. Also, it's Lake Michigan inside the Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore.
Thre range is small in terms of f-stops, but large considering the number of shots. Was that really necessary, wouldn't two or three exposures have been enough? --Dschwen12:54, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, what do you mean by lack of caption? I can make the caption more detailed as requested, but it is certainly present. Cody.Pope09:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Image does not give a good example of tone mapping as the dynamic range of the subject is not that large. I can release this HDR series into a compatible license if there is interest. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me)20:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Response I can see many of your concerns and I appreciate the feedback. The one thing I would say is that the small range is actually very helpful when it comes to blending the image. Most tone mapping software actually suggest 9-15 images to get the best results; since the blending is pretty complex, the more data the better results. A lot of hazy and murky tone-mapped images are a result of too few exposures and/or poor blending software/settings (think murky black skies). I good tone-mapped image should actually be -- at first glance -- unnoticeable and natural. And a lot of the HDR-tone-mapped-images aren't usually like that all. That being said, I still would like to see a good tone-mapped image presented in a similar matter as this. It's more the format of the image that I was promoting. In the future, I'll try to get a image with a higher overall range, but I'll still make sure to get a large number of shots. --Cody.Pope19:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with some of your points but disagree with others. I don't think you need a large number of images. You just need images with a reasonable amount of overlap. Tone mapped images that end up with problems such as murky skies are usually the result of poor settings and trying to squeeze too much dynamic range into a limited output rather than a low number of source images. Your image does look quite natural but that is mainly due to the fact that the scene didn't really HAVE a large dynamic range requirement in the first place. Any time you try to fit significantly more dynamic range into a typical PC output, you're going to either lower overall contrast, create halos or at least display a scene that on first glance looks a bit fishy and strange. Diliff | (Talk)(Contribs)08:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Tapantí National Park during a foggy/rainy day. One can see the tropical plants on the sides and the natural fog from the waterfall in the background.
Reason
Not only is this the only picture in Wikipedia that depicts the Tapantí National Park in Costa Rica, but it's also one of the most beautiful depictions of a tropical rain forest in Wikipedia. This picture grabs the viewer's attention and incites him/her to read more about the article. The picture has a relatively high quality and resolution (2080 × 1544 pixel) and any blurriness in the background is caused by the naturally forming fog from the waterfall and the water vapour exhaled by the trees and wet ground (not to mention that it was raining the day the picture was taken).
Oppose This picture has alot of potential if it is taken properly. That waterfall catches my eye but its depiction isnt very good. Overall, the picture has bad composition and I really hate the fog. I find it takes away from the picture. --Midnight Rider02:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Bad timing and composition. Generally it is bad to shoot landscapes during the day especially overcast noons, and are best taken dawn or dusk when the dynamic range is much more balanced. Composition wise, I have no idea what you trying to show here, other than a montain with a fall with some foliage close to the camera. --antilivedT | C | G07:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Sorry but it's too small and obviously not the best of Wikipedia. We can have a larger size for sure. Needs a crop at the bottom --Arad02:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Size requirement not fulfilled, unpleasant background, (one) german annotation. Also it clearly seems to be a derivative work and it is a bit fishy that this isn't mentioned anywhere. --Dschwen20:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Too small, and I really don't like the background glare in the middle/bottom of the picture. Also, this seems like a small subset of pasta types that don't include most of the ones I'm interested in. Enuja01:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A good example of a food picture.Suggestion If your goal is to take a featured picture with pasta kinds as a subject, I suppose you could lay out different pasta noodles and take a higher quality picture in the style of "Lemon" at right. Good luck. -- Sturgeonman20:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Another possibility is to do something like the coquina variation image that Debivort did: take individual pictures of pasta noodles and stich them all together into one single picture, so you avoid the flash reflection. howcheng {chat}20:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A very important thing is to use bounced/indirect flash instead of direct flash. Just hold a mirror in front of the flash and reflected to a white ceiling or somewhere and crank the flash level compensation (or exposure compensation if that's not available) up to avoid under-exposures. --antilivedT | C | G07:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Displaced victims of the earthquake, in front of a temporary tent shelter. Other tents can be seen in the background at right.
Reason
A picture that adds significantly to the SF 1906 earthquake article - the very first shelters were tents, before the Army built more permanent shelters. A high quality scan (1381 by 1078 px) of a 1906 snapshot that has survived in good shape for over 100 years. A snaphot, yes, but with high historical significance.
Comment: I think the image illustrates the clothing of the period very well, but doesn't do much to illustrate the tents, nor the article in question. — BRIAN0918 • 2007-03-12 16:21Z
Ditto Brian. I couldn't tell from the picture that this is near SF, related to an earthquake, or even a shelter. For all I know this could be a camping vacation in sweden. Just commenting on the picture, this doesn't mean that I doubt your word if you say it is what it is, Janke! --Dschwen20:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC) Still a great find though![reply]
Unfortunately, our great-aunt died many years ago (at the ripe age of 98!), so it's impossible to get any more info about the picture, or the location, other than what's written in the album. She lived in California for over a decade back then, and we have many of her pictures from SF. I doubt anyone can pinpoint the exact location of this shot, without having access to records of displaced people - such records may (or may not) have been kept back then. --Janke | Talk07:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this doesn't show the quake, it shows the displaced victims in front of their tent shelter... ;-) Seriously, I think it adds some human perspective to the article. --Janke | Talk07:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose with regrets. This is a nice picture, with the right amount of patina to convey "old", but as has been mentioned before, the occasion of this tent outing remains unclear. Also there are a bunch of technical problems, e.g. the elder gentleman on the right has no eyes. And finally, no caption. I'll give it a E4T5A9. ~ trialsanderrors17:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I may be missing something, but I don't see how the picture demonstrates that they actually are quake victims. They could be anyone in 1906 merely standing in front of a tent. -- Sturgeonman20:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Female internees practicing calisthenics at Manzanar internment camp, 1943.
Reason
Another political image of sorts. In 1943, Adams visited the Japanese-American internment camp at Manzanar and took a series of photographs, many of which are considered among his best portraits. He has been criticized for putting a positive spin on the subject, but when he gifted the set to the Library of Congress, he defended his decision:
The purpose of my work was to show how these people, suffering under a great injustice, and loss of property, businesses and professions, had overcome the sense of defeat and dispair [sic] by building for themselves a vital community in an arid (but magnificent) environment. — Ansel Adams, 1965
I believe this picture perfectly encapsulates this intent.
Support I looked through this database on several occasions for images to nominate. Good choice! — BRIAN0918 • 2007-03-12 16:23Z
Support. This is an issue that resonates highly with me. My wife's family was interned during the war and I've visited Manzanar several times myself. howcheng {chat}17:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Female internees practicing calisthenics at Manzanar War Relocation Center, Owens Valley, California. In 1943, Ansel Adams followed an invitation by newly appointed camp director Ralph Merritt to photograph the everyday life of the Japanese American internees in the camp. Unlike his colleague Dorothea Lange, whose pictures for the War Relocation Authority focused on the hardship and humiliation of the deportation and internment, Adams's intent was to "show how these people, suffering under a great injustice, (…) had overcome the sense of defeat and despair by building for themselves a vital community in an arid (but magnificent) environment." (Ansel Adams, 1965)
Support. Very good caption. I agree about making extended captions mandatory. Even for photos of mundane things, information about location, provenance of the subject, etc., and a basic description is helpful.--ragesoss01:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It might also help cut down on the number of ill-conceived nominations we get if editors are required to write a paragraph on the picture they nominate rather than just exclaim "beautiful shot". ~ trialsanderrors01:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Very nice historic photo by famous photographer -- Chris 73 | Talk
Support Yowza, what a great photo we've found here :D although its encyclopedic value may be dubious, it is nonetheless a famous (and I dareday fantastic) photo of good technical quality! Jellocube2707:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The haze prevents a clear view of the subject, and the wing distracts from it. This looks like a typical snapshot, not like the best Wikipedia has to offer. --Tewy04:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose edit 1. The wing and haze are probably the biggest problems, and cannot be significantly fixed in an edit. --Tewy22:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not only for the already mentioned reasons, but I also think a picture from space of the area would be much more significant.Bernalj9002:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose original, it needs a caption. There also appears to be jpg artifact at the bottom, fuzziness, and a little up and left of the big-pig's head you see a scratch line. grenグレン19:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support I removed the scratch line and a whole slew of scanner artifacts. The background is far from perfect, but the subject is in focus and the composition is good enough to support. ~ trialsanderrors21:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I guess aesthetics; it just seems a little distracting. Why, are those blown out reflections or is that just a bunch of white stuff on the ground? It also might be nice to have more DOF. Basar02:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like some heavy frost or light snowfall. anyway Support, highly enc (nursing, farm, pig, etc.) good quality. -Fcb98103:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is quite certainly frost. I checked for blown highlights but didn't see any digital white. Even the very light areas have structure. ~ trialsanderrors03:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose. I find several distractions in the picture. The sow's tail is docked, and she has an ear tag. The sow is not washed or cleaned. I would expect to see a better looking pig competing at my local county fair. At least the piglet is clean and extraordinary looking. The picture as a whole doesn't strike me as an extraordinary picture of a pig (as my grandpa had these Yorkshire pigs when I used to help at his pig farm). The snow in the background doesn't provide a great contrast like some nice green grass or mud would. RoyalbroilT : C04:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That may be so, but isn't it nice to have a pig looking like a pig and not all prettied up? I think that mud would be nice too, but if pigs live in frost, then I think it's enc. Basar04:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
come on, if you want a perfect picture of a pig someone can make an .svg picture. This is a great animal shot, full of life (for a change) Good lighting, composition, clerity is great. Tag on ear is Enc to farm. -Fcb98105:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A FP should be the best that Wikipedia has to offer. It's just a dirty pig to me. It's probably more than mud if you know what I mean. Look at these clean pigs and tell me that they don't look much better: HampshireDuroca clean Yorkshire . Either that, or go to a dirty muddy pig like this one. Notice that it they still has its have their tail intact and no ear tag. RoyalbroilT : C05:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I cleaned up my wording above a bit to better reflect my thoughts. I realize that my words are quite harsh (which is unusual for me), but I expect a featured picture of any animal to feature show quality animal. FP is a high standard. RoyalbroilT : C14:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Both aesthetics and encyclopaedic value are required. The line of reasoning "it's hard to take a pretty photo of X" is bogus, sorry. Stevage01:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
umm, it's not mud. Mud requires the temperature to be above freezing, and the snow indicated otherwise. It's 4 letter word that starts with S. I could be in favor of a pig with a muddy snout and/or muddy legs. That is not the case here. There are other breeds of pigs that look a lot nicer with some s... on them like I linked to above. I bet you couldn't even see the s... on the red breed called Durocs. RoyalbroilT : C20:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I thought about it for a bit, but no. It's glarey, with not much contrast, and the quality just isn't great. The composition is nice, but it's let down by so many other things. The bright background is just too displeasing. Stevage14:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Aesthetically painful to look at. It's just used to illustrate "pig" and "omnivore," there is no reason to have an ugly sow with an ear-tag and a distracting background. Enuja01:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I just don't see either overexposure nor harsh shadows. There is plenty of detail in the shadows as far as I can see. That being said I'm not too excited about the pic either. Focus is a bit soft and the subject matter is a bit too arbitrary. --Dschwen19:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Arbitrary!? Since when is the ruins of an ancient civilization arbitrary? As a matter of fact, since when is a UNESCO world heritage site arbitrary?Bernalj9002:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
By arbitrary I meant that the way the photo is taken does not depict the site in a unique way (or show its unique features) that makes it distinguishable from other ruins of an ancient civilizations. I did not intend to belittle the subject itself at all. --Dschwen07:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thats easy to say, but I think we give should the contributor some appreciation for uploading the picture under a free license... --Dschwen07:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Not concerned about shadows, which would be hard to get rid of without artificial lights (bleh) or if the sun was directly behind the subject, and that might not be possible based on positioning of the subject and lends itself to overexposure, which I see none of here. (That long and still a fragment! My English teachers would be proud.) But the view does not lend itself to showing the layout of the whole site (where am I?), and the focus, while good, could be better. This may be due to the camera itself.--HereToHelp00:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly Support I agree the shadows are well proportioned in this picture and I can't complain about the quality or resolution in any reasonable way. Also, I love the fact that it depicts a little-known yet immensely important ancient historical site. Bernalj9002:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Artifacts all over the place. The shadows look interesting, but overall this image is just not that striking to me. The lower third looks too bright. Not really Wikipedia's best work. -Wutschwlllm14:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - It looks good, but I feel it doesn't really show much of the park. It would be better if the picture had something important to the park, not just a brick sidewalk with trees. If this picture, hypothetically, had made it to FP status, nobody would know where that place is. — JuWiki (Talk <> Resources) 22:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: my knowledge on photography is basic, enough to say that this picture is nothing compared to other featured pictures. Has nothing special or at least a technique. Sorry guys but I'm pretty sure Colombia has better views. --((F3rn4nd0 ))(BLA BLA BLA)05:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The white balance is way off- way too bright. Also, why are there trees growing all over the sidewalk in the background? --frotht08:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Alas, only photographs and svgs are passing these days… This might be hard to vectorize because of the shadow and texture of the bones can be rather irregular.--HereToHelp03:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Not my favourite diagram but proud of it none the less, it's as good as any FP wikipedia has, and better than most imho. I'm not going to get into a lengthy discussion about the pro's and cons of SVGs and JPEGs. But the reality of the situation is that this image is 2000 pixels square thereabouts and no PC monitor looking at wikipedia can display even near that. It can be printed on A3 paper at around 200 DPI, it's really not an issue. Its one thing to request new diagrams be done in SVG, or painfully small ones, but theres no point wasting time that could be spent making new diagrams on tracing old ones into a new format with no real benefits. And no, locomotive system doesn't refer to muscles. Muscles are, interestingly, part of the muscular system. And even if muscles were part of the locomotive system, i'm bemused as to a good way to show both the bones and muscles as one would cover the other. WikipedianProlific(Talk)11:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think the main argument for SVG is because someday somewhere someone might have an application off of the computer screen. I'd have loved to bring your horse to science fair on a glossy 4 foot wide piece of paper. I think simpler ones should be SVG, but the shading on this would make that rather difficult. That's why I thought SVG was supposed to be better than large monitor filling PNG grenグレン20:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I believe there are four spelling mistakes - tuber ischm should be tuber ischium, tubuar sacrale should be tuber sacrale, humerous should be humerus and coccygeal vetebrae should be coccygeal vertebrae Can someone confirm if I'm right? - Adrian Pingstone17:42, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support if it's factually correct. Very nice looking and if someone with the ability and time wants it could use a nice image map. grenグレン20:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support if the spelling is checked/fixed. I'd also prefer a white background. Otherwise I think this is a very good illustration. --KFP (talk | contribs) 22:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm a little surprised to see support for an image that (at the time of my writing this) still has four spelling errors. A count of Support at this moment might make it a Featured Pic!! - Adrian Pingstone16:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose — I love these sorts of old maps/starmaps but even at 1804 × 1236 pixels, it is still not high enough resolution for the detail to be visible, sorry. —Pengo22:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Unfortunately, the reproduction I've scanned from is only about 8 x 12 inches in size, and doesn't show any more detail than in this scan. If anyone has a better original, pleace replace. --Janke | Talk08:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I feel kinda bad opposing for resolution when it's 1804x1236px, but there isn't enough detail to be able to read some of the text. ShadowHalo23:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you can't really read the small print on the existing FP "Carta Marina" [2], either, even though it's over 5000 px wide... --Janke | Talk06:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I can read just about all of the text pretty easily, and the major captions are larger and clearly visible. I think it's more of a problem that I can't read the names of the planets (I'm presuming that's what they are based on the corresponding symbols) in the center-top circle. ShadowHalo06:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Las Limas Monument 1, an important iconic representation of the Olmec belief system. Carved between 3000 and 2500 years ago, this statue shows a youth holding an apparently-lifeless were-jaguar baby. Incised icons on the youth's shoulders, legs, and face are considered by many prominent archaeologists as archetypical representations of Olmec dieties.[[Señor_de_las_limas_2.jpg|thumb|200px|Edit 1 by Chabacano]].
Reason
First, this is a very striking picture. The statue itself is very expressive and the light pool surrounding the were-jaguar baby gives it an otherworldly glow. Second, this statue is very important archaeologically, and a drawing or photograph of this appears in nearly any book on the Olmec culture. Third, the clarity is such that, at highest resolution, the incised icons on the statue can be clearly seen. In summary, this is the best photo I've seen of this statue, and one that Wikipedia is very fortunate to have. It's less in focus in the chest area than the face, and I myself wish the glow were a little less bright. Nonetheless, I do think the combination of its encyclopedi-osity and striking beauty makes this a fine candidate.
This photo was taken by an amateur photog from Mexico at the Museum of Anthropology in Xalapa, Veracruz, where the statue is on display. I saw it on Flickr and contacted the photographer, who graciously allowed me to upload it under CC 2.5 Attribution. For comparison sake, here is another photo of the same subject.
P.S., I also think that the subject matter is a nice counterbalance to the many wildlife, landscape, and cityscape shots we see here in FPC. Thanks, Madman15:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think it needs some editing to remove the lines and dots in the background. It may still be too low resolution and I'm not sure why such lighting is best to illustrate this sculpture. I'd probably oppose after editing but I think it could help. grenグレン21:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding background, I will have to depend on the kindness of strangers to do this, but I'm sure it can be done. Regarding the resolution, the criteria states that one side must be at least 1000px, and so this does qualify. And, I'm not sure that this lighting is the best to illustrate this sculpture, but the lighting does emphasize the religious nature of the statue and perhaps shows why this statue was venerated in modern times as a Madonna. Too often artifacts like this are shown in a dead, antiseptic light, and that's what makes this photo exciting to me. In addition, museum photos are difficult since amateur photogs do not control the lighting, placement, etc., and often risk getting chased out by the authorities. The results usually end up like this.
Whatever enc you lose is more than made up by by the composition. I would support an edit to remove the non-black patches, and to make the black blacker. The idea is there, but a bit of editing can bring out the full potential. I will abstain until such an edit is created.--HereToHelp04:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay...but somehow the sharpness is lacking. Alas, I have been spoiled by Diliff, Fir, etc. and their professional equipment. I still congratulate the photographer, though.--HereToHelp00:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That was fast! Check out Edit #1. I have used the Graphics labs folks in the past to improve several photographs. As mentioned, it is very difficult to get good shots of archaeological artifacts and they are really brought out the detail in this shot of Maya glyphs. Madman19:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, great subject, not a terrible shot, but the image quality just isn't that amazing. Seems... not very sharp? And to continue the argument above, the subject itself is only about 710×970 pixels, which would barely qualify. Would be great if someone with a high-end camera got a shot of this using a tripod. —Pengo07:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
CommentThe edited one is much better. I don't think the concerns about bad lighting are justified, on the contrary the lighting adds to the picture. I believe that there are good reasons for using effectful ligthing when taking a picture of a three dimentional artefact, inbstead of always using a straight flash or a diffuse lighting. ·Maunus··ƛ·19:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose what Fcb981 is saying is that there is nothing in the picture to give an indication of scale - the statue could be 1 foot tall or 20 feet tall, the picture is no guide. However, the picture needn't be a guide as to scale, that information could be in the caption and/or the article, which ought to be sufficient. Pstuart84Talk17:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think any additional size reference would distract from the quality of the image. It may be sufficient to write the size in the caption/comments of the image -- Chris 73 | Talk23:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support This picture definitively intrigues me, catches my eye, and makes me want to read more about its article. The quality is quite good and seriously I can't really see the difference between both the original and the edit. Bernalj9003:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - No doubt it is a bad lighting, with blown parts and harsh shadows, affecting the clarity of the image and its enc value. However, without this type of lighting the mistery is lost... Alvesgaspar12:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, mainly because of the blown highlights right in the middle of the subject. It really detracts from an otherwise compelling image.--ragesoss05:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. The composition is good, but there are artifacts, it's blurry, and the lighting is dull. A downsizing might help. --Tewy17:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Viewed in full size, the subject itself is a little blurry (look at, for instance, the eye). A downsizing would increase the overall sharpness of the image, even if it makes it smaller. --Tewy22:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Sorry, but I don't think it's quite good enough for a FP. It just isn't very striking; I think it might be because it's a little busy; maybe it lacks some important lines or coloring, something that would bring the picture together. The reflection almost does it, but it is disturbed by the weeds. Basar06:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is not that it depicts food, but that it depicts it in a not very attractive, encyclopedic, or technically outstanding way. ~ trialsanderrors00:46, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose just noticed some worrying DOF problems on the back of the fish. In fact, almost all of the fish is at least a little out of focus.. FPs should be razor sharp --frotht 05:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC) Neutral Don't know what everyone else is talking about- seems like a nicely enc (and very sharp and high-res) pic of fish n chips. But it doesn't belong on a beach; the beach background makes no sense. Put it in a fast food place or something --frothT18:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Froth, in many parts of the world where fish and chips is most common (ie UK and Australia, not so much the United States), it is pretty common to have them at or on the beach. See the image caption in the fish and chips article. Your own American bias may place fish and chips in a fast food restaurant but that isn't necessarily the case, particularly since this is a British image. Diliff | (Talk)(Contribs)21:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hm, I didn't know that but I was referring to the incongruity of having fast food just sitting alone near the beach, as if it washed up on shore or grows naturally in nature or something. Something like this provides a more realistic context --frotht05:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I'm going to buck the trend here and support it. Ideally it could be higher res and the horizon could be straightened somewhat but it isn't vital since it is OOF and of secondary importance to the beach and the foreground. Diliff | (Talk)(Contribs)21:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose', the composition doesn't work for me, why are the fish and chips just sitting there on the foreshore, and where are the seagulls?--Peta00:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The light on the sunward side of the food seems too bright. Plus the composition seems odd to me. This just looks like someone left their order on a wall or something. howcheng {chat}23:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The beach is blurry enough not to be the focus of the picture, but is also clear enough to distract the viewer from the fish and chips. Better focusing would improve the picture. -- Sturgeonman20:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Man holding sign during Iranian hostage crisis protest, 1979 Alternate captions: A man exemplifying anti-Iranian sentiments during a 1979 Washington, D.C. student protest of the Iranian hostage crisis. His raised sign reads "deport all Iranians, get the hell out of my country" and "Release all Americans now" on the reverse side. Anti-Iranian sentiments were particularly prevalent during the Iranian hostage crisis. This photo of a 1979 student protest in Washington, D.C. shows a man holding a sign which reads "deport all Iranians, get the hell out of my country", with "Release all Americans now" on the reverse side.Edit 1 - Noise removed - a bit retouchedFor the curious... you can see through his sign. I flipped it and added emphasis- this is what the other side says.
Reason
Historical image, enc value showing clearly the Anti-Iranian feelings in USA in the months of Iranian Hostage Crisis of 1979 following the revolution in Iran The hostage crisis was one of the most known, important events of its kind in world history. And plus that, the image has a very good quality and composition IMO. It's not the usual cliché "black" racism photo.
Weak support It looks somewhat grainy to me and there's not as much focus on the subject as I might like, but I like the picture overall. ShadowHalo02:14, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose I don't find this racist picture very striking, but I do find it offensive. —Pengo 03:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC) (changed to strong oppose as no specific details for this image can be given). —Pengo01:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, IMO, the point is that it's so offensive toward Iranians that it's striking how people can be so racist on something that is not even the Iranian people's fault. --Arad03:19, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support (Edit 1). Hate the racism, but love the depiction of it. And I have to say that I disagree somewhat with ShadowHalo regarding the focus of the subject... Having the subject so distant gives a "lost in the crowd" feel, and the people surrounding the subject add to the chaotic atmosphere. tiZom(2¢)14:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose - Very offensive. Imagine that you are an Iranian, and you see this picture on the main page or even the FP's icon in the upper part of the picture's page. I think you wouldn't like to visit Wikipedia anymore. Tomer T14:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm already offended as an Iranian that you think they are the same. (joking) Well now seriously, Iraq was a part of Iran before but not now. They are different nations now so don't confuse them. --Arad16:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I'm trying to defend Iranians by showing this image and the problems they had in those times, which is good for people to see on main page. --Arad16:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My fault. Arad, I think that the picture's presence on the main page wouldn't really make any Iranian happy. Tomer T16:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's fine. Well, those who are intelligent enough with enough knowledge will see the image and think that racism is a very bad thing. I don't think anyone would take the image as "Yes it's a good idea to deport Iranians". At least I hope people will not think about it like this. Do you? --Arad00:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - does the sign have something else written on the other side? It looks like "release all americans now" - which is a bit distractiing. Apart from that, great image — Jack · talk · 15:33, Friday, 9 March 2007
Weak support - Support only because of enc relevance, quality is quite poor. Historical or journalistic documents may indeed be considered offensive specially when the events are relatively recent. However that fact should not affect their scientific value or prevent anyone to use or disseminate them. This is of course, the opinion of someone who believes in the freedom of expression, an important value of the western democratic societies. But the scope of Wikipedia is much larger than that, I know... - Alvesgaspar17:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Agree with Alvesgaspar, as long as the image is contextualized in a proper historical prospective, denying it FP status because it might offend is against the NPOV policy. --Cody.Pope18:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support I really don't see any reason why an Iranian person should be offended by seeing this as a featured picture. It's not like Wikipedia supports racist behaviour by promoting this image. -Wutschwlllm20:08, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
By putting this on the main page it will likely give many people the (hopefully mistaken) impression that Wikipedia does support racism. Already Wikipedia is dominated by American viewpoints, and US-Iran relations are currently at their lowest point since the crisis. Note that Iran was one of the three countries of George Dubya's so called "Axis of evil", and Iranians are currently treated with suspicion in the US, generally requiring additional checks at airports, etc. —Pengo21:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I cite policy, the fact that the image can be seen as offensive is not enough to negate it's use or deny it FC status. If on the main page, the caption should clearly state it's historic context -- if it does in NPOV way, it should be allowed. --Cody.Pope22:13, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm completely with Cody.Pope on this one. In my opinion, this is really ridiculous. Let's just say this image of Adolf Hitler gets promoted and it appears on Wikipedia's main page, does this make Wikipedia a neo-nazi club, or what? This is an encyclopedia, not a political platform, and I hate (unnecessary) self-censorship, just because of some weird opinions on political correctness.
"Note that Iran was one of the three countries of George Dubya's so called "Axis of evil", and Iranians are currently treated with suspicion in the US, generally requiring additional checks at airports, etc." I know exactly what you mean. Since I watch Al Jazeera English I hate all the American news channels. Even CNN (I don't really need to mention Fox News) is so biased, they don't even invite Iranians to contribute to discussions (what Al Jazeera does, by the way). The bottom line is, I detest this sort of self censorship. -Wutschwlllm22:39, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I hesitate, since that seems only to confirm that wikipedia is censored by saying this significant image is important but too offensive to be displayed. At least from an ideological stand point that seems far worse to me. --Cody.Pope23:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I nominated the image and I'm Iranian. I wanted it to be on the homepage to show that how people could be so ignorant and racist against other nationalities. I hope people will take it in a good way, not that racism is good or that we are promoting it. If you guys think it's offensive to Iranians, then I would prefer a withdrawal. But I thought in this situation that Iran has currently with this Bush vs. Mullahs thing, it's a good time to show the image. I hope the captioning will be informative and not provocative. It wasn't Iranian people's fault that the hostage crisis happened. It was the government and I want the world to know that it still the same. It's not Iranian people's fault that their dictator government supports terrorism. They are trying their best to overthrow the government. But it's not easy. --Arad00:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's a news picture, and as such a witness to history. The image itself isn't POV, but it can be interpreted as such, in two ways: 1. As offensive to Iranians, and 2. As offensive to Americans. That's the essence of prejudice, to project the bad behavior of a subgroup onto the group as a whole. I don't think we should reject it based on its sensitive nature, but we should be careful in the way we put it in context. ~ trialsanderrors00:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment & Question As far as pictures portraying racist sentiments go, this one is even worse. My question here is really whether this image presents a historic occasion or is historic by itself. I don't remember this one being used, but then again I was twelve when the hostage affair happened. ~ trialsanderrors23:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This discussion regarding censorship is silly in my opinion. In the lynching article there is an actual picture of lynching with a teenage boy hanging from a tree. It shows the horror of the situation in a way text could not. In an article on the Iranian hostage situation how can one justify not having a picture showing how some Americans felt during that time? How could anyone interpret this photo as a Wikipedia endorsement of Iranian deportation? The caption should be written carefully so as not to paint all Americans with the sentiments shown in the photo. This situation is not unique on Wikipedia and has been handled many times. I don't understand the furor in this case.Meniscus01:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, for the moment. I like the image a lot and am willing to support it, but I would like to see a solid description (providing that context others have demanded) on the image page before I cast my !vote. A good extended caption is one of the featured picture criteria, and one that we have been letting slide for too long, especially on historical photographs. --ragesoss05:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support original (neutral edit, I think it loses some sharpness, harder to see man's features), nice image of important times. While this even in itself is probably not of great importance the hostage crisis is and this seems to be a good picture. Why? 1) it's from 5 days after the start of the crisis. 2) It's from MST. U.S. News & World Report Magazine Photograph Collection. Notable even from a notable magazine plus high quality image. It seems to work for me, although knowing more specifics wouldn't hurt. grenグレン08:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support Obviously its a historic photograph! It is even located in the US govt archives: http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ppmsca/09800/09800r.jpg which if you go here: http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ppmsca/09800/ you will find tons of other historic images from that time period. I don't have time to dig there, but assuredly there is a description somewhere on that website. Furthermore this image is of strong importance (strongly disagree with Grenavitar above) as this is one of the very few clear instances of anti-Iranian racism in the US. Usually in the Diaspora Iranians, mostly due to widespread secular background and easy assimilation into the wider culture, cannot be distinguished from the rest of the populace and thus do not suffer attacks the way has happened with non-secular Muslim Arabs, Indians, and Pakistanis. Even after 9/11, how many reports do we find of racist attacks against Iranians? Most Americans couldn't tell an Iranian if one were staring them in the face, unless the Iranian was dark-skinned or wearing some kind of Islamic dress and then the American would not be thinking "Iranian" but "Muslim" and if he were racist, the American would think something even more ignorant such as "camel jockey." So in that case the bigotry is against the religion, and not the ethnicity since he is unaware and thinks that "Muslim" is a race! And also when Iran has been attacked in recent times, it has not been of a necessarily racist character but against the country and government. So clearly racism against Iranians in the US is a rare phenomenon, and even rarer is masses of Americans calling Iranians "camel jockeys" and demanding that we be deported. For this reason there is no question that the picture is notable and evidence of a rare and ugly historic phenomenon, which unfortunately may resurface due to the ignorants who continue running Iran and give these type of bigots an excuse. Khorshid11:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The front page for the collection is here. There are 1.2 million pictures in the collection, donated by U.S. News & World Report, and the fact that the collection is owned by the LoC now doesn't make all of them historical. It's very likely that most of them were never even used. "Historical" in this context means that it is a picture viewers would recognize as an iconic represeentation of that particular event, like Migrant Mother or Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima. ~ trialsanderrors18:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What I mean to say is that the hostage crisis does not have one single iconic image that should be featured as does the Battle of Iwo Jima. The same clearly goes for anti-Iranian sentiment. Not being the important image does not make it unimportant or unfeaturable. (I hadn't read Trial's above when I wrote this) grenグレン18:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Obviously historical photograph of great significance, also very troubling and thought-provoking. Definately FP material, and I agree- I detest wiki censorship due to political correctness. --frothT18:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please specify Guys please indicate which version you like the most. The edit or original. Thanks a lot for all the votes. --Arad18:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm looking through Google image search to find historicl images of the crisis, and it seems to me these pictures of the crisis are more iconic, at least in the English-speaking media: 1, 2, 3. The question is really if (assuming free licanse and quality photo) we would be prepared to feature picture #1 on the front page. ~ trialsanderrors19:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support It would be nice to have a better description though; I wasn't able to find any more information on the LOC site, so I'm not sure more information is available. Basar20:16, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support with caption (edit 1) Excellent photo and extremely historical. As others have said, iconic. I would like to see an extended caption, if possible. On the issue of contect, which I think should not affect its featured status: sure, it depicts American racism, and I think that is reason enough to feature it so that we don't forget the past. --Asiir23:59, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support I'll stay out of the whole racism debate. Either way its a great picture that demonstrates an important historic event. RyGuy1719:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Switched to Oppose. The picture, which depicts at best a footnote to the Iran hostage crisis, fails WP:NPOV#Undue weight and WP:NOT#SOAPBOX. For one, no evidence whatsoever has been offered that the image itself is historic and has even been used in news article. In fact, it doesn't seem to be used at all outside Wikipedia. It elevates a reprehensible response to the crisis to a widespread response without any evidence that this sentiment was held by more than a small minority. (On the more prevalent response to the crisis, see loc.gov). In simple terms, it tries to shift culpability. On the artistic/technical merit, clearly the picture wouldn't even be considered if the sign said "Oppose Measure 16". ~ trialsanderrors20:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that probably wasn't the most widespread response but it does an excellent job of conveying the extreme tension felt in the united states over the crisis.. there was a lot of fear and hatred flying around --frotht04:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree, but are we documenting this as it was covered by authorative sources or are we creating a reality for ourselves? Looking around on Google image search, I find many striking contemporary images, blindfolded hostages, the ill-fated rescue effort, yellow ribbons, the jubilant return. Between the two policies no censorship and no soapboxing we can only make sure this falls under the former and not the latter by showing that this is a historical relevant photograph or shows a historical relevant scene, as determined by authorative sources. I don't see anything like this here. ~ trialsanderrors06:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Clearly and obviously notable and deserving of FP status as so many fine contributors here have demonstrated. To above user, please see WP:AGF. Your unfortunate comment comes across as a strongly bad faith and provocative insinuation. Please have some respect for others. metaspheres 23:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
You yourself might want to read the full discussion here before making ill-considered bad faith acusations. I have no doubt that Arad offered the picture in good faith. It still fails both core policies for lack of evidence against the problems I pointed out. ~ trialsanderrors00:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I don't think I'm qualified to weigh-in on the image quality or the historical status of the picture. But I do not believe it's racist to document racism, as long as it's done carefully and the context is clear. In fact, I think it's quite necessary to document it so that it doesn't get whitewashed. I realize I probably haven't put any arguments to rest, I just felt like contributing my two cents on the matter. --Paul19:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
support a good illustration of reactionary behavior in America. "ReLease" Americans? I didn't know we could be rented in the first place. Debivort19:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support My support gets stronger day by day. In my opinion it's not necessarily important if the image itself was important at the time it was taken, but just how it portrays a subject matter, like racism and how some people react completely irrationally (because it is irrational to "deport all Iranians", just because of the hostage crisis). -Wutschwlllm14:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support i don't think that making this picture a FP means wikipedia supports racism. i'm jewish but if there was a really good picture of a death camp (from WW2) i would support it -Nelro20:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm suprised to see so many here describing this photo as a depiction of racism. Call it bigotry, prejudice, extremism, nationalism, jingoism, ignorance, xenophobia, isolationism, anti-immigrant sentiment, etc., but it doesn't seem to qualify as racism per se. With respect to all, the sign is rather specific in attacking members of a particular nationality, not a race. Please, no flames - I'm no apologist, but prefer precision in language. It's harder to denounce unethical behavior if we can't properly describe it. -Tobogganoggintalk00:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Same thing. Big deal. Prejudice we may call it then? Because Iran is made out of many ethinics, then it is in a way racism. It's racism to Persians, Kurds, Lurs, Parths, etc,etc. and all who live in Iran. That is in my opinion. --Arad 02:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC) --Arad02:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
strong oppose, first I am Iranian and may have some kind of "conflict of interest" here. (me myself don't think so, but I am OK if you uncount my vote). let me frank, I don't see any good reason for seeing this Pic in the first page of Wikipedia; It may be offensive to some people, If you accept that it may be offensive, please stop this voting. regards,--Pejman4723:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Edit#1 Great picture, great imagery, classic. We need such a picture for Wikipedia, especially because of current events. No whitewashing, show the truth. --Ķĩřβȳ♥♥♥ŤįɱéØ00:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: im concerned if we promote this, whether people will see Wikipedia as promoting racism and anti-Iranian sentiments. Just a thought however. Ahadland13:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support Controversial, uncomfortable, and regrettable images bring the most attention to cultural mistakes such as this one. Do not place blinders on society to accommodate the easily offended - one sometimes must to see the needless hate of yesterday to understand the needless hate of today. - --Forzan04:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. We don't know who this guy is, where the protest was (one might assume it's the Iranian embassy, but it's best not to assume these things), how massive was the protest, how much coverage this guy got, etc. In short, it's lacking a good extended caption that explains the facts around this picture. Instead, what we have is a bunch of people who are reading into it and applying their own assumptions. Now I don't think we need a POTD caption per se, just something that gives us more context. howcheng {chat}17:48, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support original — This isn't a racist photo; this photo shows racism. There is a huge difference between these two things -- that is why this image gets my support. I've looked for information on this photo or this particular protest, but the closest thing I came across was a Nov 12, 1979 Washington Post article, which I don't have access to. So, I don't know if we'll be able to find the exact location of this protest, but it is really irrelevant, as the purpose of this photo is to illustrate anti-Iranian sentiments during the Iran hostage crisis, not to discuss a particular protest. I also added a couple of different captions, maybe they'll sway you naysayers. ♠ SG→Talk21:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No. Absent evidence that the picture is historic or shows a historic event this is still pushing an angle of the crisis that is, in comparison to others, fairly minor. Pictures of the blindfolded hostages and the downed aircrafts went around the world. This one, from all the silence by the support voters, went nowhere. ~ trialsanderrors23:38, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. The caption is well-done as far as it goes, but reveals the lack of much specific significance for the photo, and much specific knowledge about the photo's context.--ragesoss18:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Depicting racism is not a bad thing to do, but as trialsanderrors pointed out there is little evidence that this photo is historically significant. Most political protests have their share of signs written by whackjobs. If we were writers of a newspaper article or a history textbook, we would choose to depict a slogan representing the typical sentiments of the crowd, not the nuttiest slogan in sight. Kla'quot07:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support I believe the historical context was indeed very significant. That particular time in history was also important in development of Islamic fundamentalism and it's relationship to the West and America. This picture a great example to show how all of a sudden two allied nations suddenly became enemies --Rayis18:47, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Closeup of Eastern carpenter bee (Xylocopa virginica) male, showing white face and mouthparts.
Reason
This is a great shot of a bee. The vivid colour of the flower the bee is resting on is dramatic, and reflected nicely in its eyes. The tight focal length on the bee's face gives it a personality that would be lacking in a blander photograph.
Support if either an image map version is made, or a labelled-with-words version is made. (It's a great picture and i'm sure it will pass anyway). I wish I had bought that journal where they'd done a study which showed exactly how much more effectively people learnt when labels were closer to the picture. I also wish I had a word for the "close label effect". —Pengo02:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Also, I suggest creating either an "image map version" (first I've heard of this), or simply a second version with English labels instead of numbers. I've never understood the arguments for one or the other: just make both. Stevage02:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This image has parts that are not visible on a white background. This might be obvious to people with good monitors when you see the grey checkerboard, but my screen's contrast is pretty crap, So i've made a red backgrounded version to highlight it instead. Umm.. Does anyone else find this odd? (detail especially on the left side of the eye is lost with a white background) —Pengo01:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm seeing perfectly those transparent parts on white background. It look great. The quality of this pic is amazing, idk how can it be improved. --Arad04:29, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just checked and those bits are visible when the colours are inversed, so it must just be my old LCD screen. My apologies. —Pengo08:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Support - It looks great. But I'm not so crazy about the background being the same colour as many elements in the subject. A light cyan might be better, since it really isn't present anywhere else in the image, and is light enough to allow labels to be seen. --Paul18:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Also, does SVG support embedded metadata? (I'd be surprised if it didn't , since it's XML-based.) Because I preferred the version with labels. However, if the descriptions for each numbered label were in the metadata, it would make the picture independent of any page it might be embedded in. It's a pet peeve of mine to see images with label descriptions or colour keys that are in the referring page instead of the picture itself (though in this case, having the descriptions in the picture itself would make it too noisy, which is why I'm suggesting the use of metadata). --Paul18:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, SVG supports metadata but I don't believe there's a standard way to embed caption information, or at least any standard way to read it back again (someone please, please correct me). There is a standard [way to include href links, but unless Wikipedia begins to support them, or has a way to convert SVG link tags (with CURIEs) into image maps, then, well, it's all just an exercise in futility. Perhaps you'd just like the labels named or given IDs that reflect what they point to. I doubt it would help anyone though. —Pengo02:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Pomegranate (Punica granatum), illustration by Otto Wilhelm Thomé, 1885Alternative: white background.
Reason
This is a nomination partially to advertise two rich and underused resources: biolib.de , a repository of old, mostly out-of-print biology books, and Otto Wilhelm Thomé's work on German, Austrian and Swiss plants in particular. I picked one that is both attractive and easy to clean up (since most original scans have the common dark edges). There are two versions: I prefer the version with the yellowed, somewhat uneven paper, but there is also an edit with white background. (The original is here.)
In 1885, paper was (sometimes) plenty white; color like in this "original" (which has been retouched already and may have had an unknown amount of color correction to enhance the red even before trialsanderrors worked on it) would be a combination of aging discoloration and a not-super-white but probably much whiter original color. Still, I mostly agree with you.--ragesoss04:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I should have been more clear--yes, the paper will have darkened considerably, but the background of the second picture is, essentially, blank—i.e., not like paper at all. Chick Bowen04:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The original of my edit is directly from the biolib source. Looking at their gallery as a whole, they certainly didn't do any editing to their images. Of course the scanner setting might have contributed to the high saturation, but I don't see eveidence that all their images are oversaturated. I agree with Chick that the white background is digital white. ~ trialsanderrors05:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The surrender of the British at Yorktown, Virginia, on October 19, 1781, which ended the American Revolutionary War. Painting by John Trumbull, photograph by the Architect of the Capitol
Reason
This is one of those 'famous' paintings that many people recognize, and as such I thought it would make a good Featured Picture. Of course, before it gets to be an Featured Picture it has to clear this selection process first :)
A company of Danish artists in Rome, a painting by Constantin Hansen from 1837. Description from the image's page: A group of Danish artists in Rome. Lying on the floor is the architect Bindesbøll. From left to right: Constantin Hansen, Rørbye, Marstrand, Küchler, Blunck and Jørgen Sonne.Edit1
Support — Beautifully detailed. I've added an image map so you can click on their faces. Only two three of the subjects don't have Wikipedia articles already. —Pengo11:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I like the picture, but someone needs to put serious effort into improving quality before this is supportable. Both versions have dust particles all over the place. ~ trialsanderrors18:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The order which the original 13 states ratified the constitution, then the order that the others were admitted to the union
Reason
I looked at the article and saw this picture, which clearly explained and showed in a nice, attractive manner the order the states entered the union. It even shows W.V. and Maine splitting from Virgina and Massachusetts. Having this as a featured piture would compliment the featured list it is in. The Placebo Effect20:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support -i think there must be a better way to show Maine becoming a seperate state from Massachusetts -Nelro
Weak oppose - This is a nice and illustrative animation. But no being an American, it would be an useful improvement to show the names of the states when they appear. Alvesgaspar21:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Question: I'm terrible at U.S. History, but... is that exactly what each state looked like AS it joined the union? In other words, did any of them change boundaries after they joined? tiZom(2¢)22:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I would like to see the name of each state in its location at the "map". Now it's not really understandable for readers who don't know a lot about the U.S., its states and its geography. I think that in its current condition, it is not an attractive picture for most of Wikipedia's visitors. Tomer T16:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support I feel that adding names would clutter this map, and initials wouldn't add much to those without much knowledge about the US.KenBest04:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Provisional Support, I would like to see the year in question written in a large font - currently it only really shows the sequence of statehoods, to see what year the state received statehood you have a lot of trouble reading the years on the slider-bar at the bottom.
Actually I tried updating it with the dates before, but the thumbnail image refuses to work. Probably this is because of the larger filesize.. it is now located here --Astrokey4412:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Agree with Witty lama. Also, why is the time scale grey (instead of back or dark blue)? By the way, the states names are nice. Alvesgaspar10:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is it really that likely the date of statehoods will change? The image should look good at full size. It absolutely does not.Circeus22:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Atmospheric gases scatter blue wavelengths of visible light more than other wavelengths, giving the Earth’s visible edge a blue halo. At higher and higher altitudes, the atmosphere becomes so thin that it essentially ceases to exist. Gradually, the atmospheric halo fades into the blackness of space.
Reason
A beautiful high resolution phograph that illustrates Earth's atmosphere very well. Some image noise and minor compression artifacts are visible in the dark areas but I don't this is a very big problem.
Support A great shot, very illustrative- although perhaps somewhat uninformative. It is a pity that the sky has so much noise. Also, the horizon is tilted.Jellocube2723:11, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - I'm not sure what this image represents, but it is not for sure the top of the atmosphere, whatever the way we define it (the air density decreases exponentially with height). The "normal" clouds may extend from near the surface to the tropopause (the top of the troposphere), which is about 10 km high. At heights of about 80 km, the top of the stratosphere, the air is barely dense enough to scatter light to a visible degree. However, the atmosphere extends much higher than that, with measurable effects (like the auroras, which may occur at 1000 km). The question is: if, in the present picture, the cloud tops are 10 km high, what is the altitude of that line separating the blue from the black: 20, 30 km? But it is a beatiful image though the quality could be much better. - Alvesgaspar00:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The naming of this image as "The Top of the Atmosphere" on NASA's site is apparently based on the Kármán line which "is commonly used to define the boundary between the Earth's atmosphere and outer space." According to [3], this photograph was taken from an altitude of 335 kilometres. --KFP (talk | contribs) 00:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support Alvesgaspar, see accompanying text at [4]. I like the faint moon in the picture (should be noted in the caption though, at first I thought it might be a reflection). I don't have much problem with the noise or the tilt, but the color gradation gets a bit stripey in the mid-resolution version. ~ trialsanderrors01:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Using simple geometric reasoning, and based on the apparent curvature of the Earth in the photo, I have made a gross estimation of the scale of the image, which is of the order of 1:300 000 (this is a lower estimation, the true figure might be 1:150 000 or even more). This means that the height above the clouds of that line separating the blue from the black is of the order of 10-20 km (12 km according to my calculations), very far from the Karman line’s 100 km. Anyone interested in making a better estimate? - Alvesgaspar10:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see a sourced claim that this is the Kármán line. Are you saying that the image incorrectly presents the gradual color change in the atmosphere, and the fade into blackness should occur at higher altitudes? I don't see any argument in the accompanying text that the atmosphere ends where the picture turns black. We should be careful when writing our captions for the image not to imply this, but for the most part the image visually represents the gradual thinning of the atmosphere. ~ trialsanderrors16:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Photographically, it's as good a picture as I've seen of the upper atmosphere. KFP has given us a good overview of the source's information, and it seems to portray the facts well, even if Wikipedia's editors can't agree on what they're seeing (I'll take NASA's word on the altitude over "a gross estimation of the scale of the image.") The composition is excellent, and it relates well to encyclopedic content. -Harmil21:06, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Animated timeline map of the Confederate States of America
Reason
Self-nom. After seeing the happy responses and suggestions for my Canada map (Below) I decided to try it out on the Confederacy. This is much less a 'territorial evolution' map and more an 'animated timeline' but I'll stick with the naming system. ;) I added a days-of-the-month timeline because there are a few months where a large number of events happen. I wonder, should it be there the whole time, or only during busy months? Anyway, let me know what you think. --Golbez10:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Day of the month; since some months, particularly in 1861, had multiple things going on, I figured that was the best way. --Golbez14:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Question Are the colors based on a cartographic precedent? I have to admit I find them poorly matched and not very telling (for instance USA and CSA could be separated by different color schemes, with different levels of brightness or saturation establishing different levels of incorporation). Also, I don't see the need for the day-of-the-month timeline or the thick line between USA and CSA. ~ trialsanderrors19:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The colors are based on all of the hundreds of maps I've made up to this point, and I haven't yet been shown a better scheme. :) As for 'different levels of incorporation', I'm not quite sure what you mean; like showing how much control the CSA held at a certain time? That would be more of a war timeline, whereas this is more of a political timeline. --Golbez21:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that's a term I made up on the spot for want of a better one. It roughly means a state in a union is a higher level of incorporation than a territory, so a possible color scheme would be:
Hm, I might try that out at some point, but for now I like my system. :) though it did get a little out of whack here, I used my normal "disputed" color for the CSA territory. --Golbez13:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. In reference to Trialsanderrors. I don't know (care) so much about colors. I think the day of month thing works because there is plenty of room and I can't think of anything more worthwhile. I think the thick line is good because it's claiming to be a national boundary... not just a state boundary. grenグレン20:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I haven't looked at this in enough detail to make any criticism of the quality (looks pretty good on first glance) but I don't really think an animated GIF is an ideal way to show this progression. There are simply too many steps and the animation is therefore too long and lacks user control. This would be great as a Flash applet with forward/back controls and a speed slider for the automation. Unfortunately it doesn't seem that there's a Flash implementation for Wikipedia so I can't really suggest a constructive way to make this better - I just think it's too long at present, and too likely that someone would want to go back a frame or two and not be able to. --YFB¿20:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, as with my other animated timelines I'll eventually make a list article, I simply haven't done that yet. And yeah, this is rather long. And no, I will not be making one for the United States, that animated gif would be over 5 minutes long. =p --Golbez21:01, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
HTML-ish tabs
I was wondering the same thing. Is there a way to make it so you click on a little tab with a year and it changes to another (preloaded) image. I know this can be done... but I'm not sure if the code is allowed in Wikipedia. I think that would be ideal (providing there aren't too many years. But, can it be done? grenグレン13:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support, very nicely done, I like how it shows the confederacy separate from seceded states. Although it might be good to also show the borders of the US territories. Also, should Indian Territory (oklahoma) be confederate too as in this map, or at least shown as disputed? I tried doing something similar several months ago made from maps on wikipedia, interestingly with colors like those suggested by trials&errors above and showing part of the war borders. I had previously thought that writing would not work in an animated gif, but it does work very well here. --Astrokey4412:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My original version did have the U.S. territories, but there are too many changes in the time period that it distracted from the focus, which was the CSA. --Golbez19:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And that one includes Indian territory, but I specifically omitted that from mine, because even though it started under CSA control, it was never formally annexed or organized by the CSA, unlike Arizona Territory. --Golbez13:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Very well done animation, shows the image's intention well. The image is very informative with its descriptions and dates. Hello3202022:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
weak support very informative, but I would prefer something like the color scheme in the non nominated example. Debivort20:27, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I would recoment pending above recomended color scheme (blues and greys); also your "day of the month" bar kind of threw me off (I thought that it was going to be a slide counter, as in "map 1 of 30".) Otherwise, I am totally digging this map, and hope to see your continured involvement with Wikipedia. OverMyHead02:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The Canada one does a better job at representing this kind of an animated map. This one here is too cluttered, the day-of-the-month timeline is unintutive and unexplained, and the color scheme is unhelpful and unattractive. ~ trialsanderrors18:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support We are lucky to have a free license on a diagram that aethetically seems (IMHO) worthy of a quality biology textbook. Spebudmak05:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support This is pretty well done, although I'm not sure why the background is grey and what the significance of the green and yellow arrows is (both easily fixed, I suppose). "Weak" only because I see number of more impressive illustrations on LadyofHats' user page. ~ trialsanderrors21:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. The arrows indicate the direction water is moving in, but the colors suggest the arrows indicate the movement of two different substances. I will support an image in which the arrows are the same color. - Mgm|(talk)09:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weakly Oppose The yellow arrows indicate the diffusion of water into the cell's vacuole, the green arrows show water diffusion out of the vacuole. This is obvious if you think about it, but not immediately clear. I agree that the quality of the diagram is extremely high; however I do not really think that the image holds enough interest to be featured. -- Ninjakannon17:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Holdridge Life Zone Classification scheme. Potential evapotranspiration is the amount of evaporation that would occur if water were not limited. Annual precipitation is rain or snow.v2: Larger numbers & labelsv3: Larger belts/region labels too
Reason
Really well illustrates Holdridge's life zones, and is visually pleasing.
The numbers down the left and right sides (which I assume you're talking about) appeared larger (or at least clearer) in Inkscape before I uploaded. I'll have a go at fixing them. —Pengo05:45, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support if you can add to the image page all of the sources you used to create the image (to allow us to verify that it is factually correct). It'd also be nice if you could say what you used to make it... but, that isn't as necessary. grenグレン20:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It was created entirely in Inkscape. It's an amalgamation of various sources. See the image page for links to 7 web-based sources and 2 textbooks referenced (Sorry, they weren't linked from the old image page). Textbook of Biodiversity can be viewed through google books, but the other book (Ecology) was my main reference point and AFAIK is only available hardcopy. The colours used are my own. —Pengo03:15, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't so interesting in checking the sources myself, hah, but... I've just noticed people forget to source diagrams. I'd just looked at the old version it seems. Great job :) --grenグレン03:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't invent this diagram, I based it on existing diagrams, so I can only give a best guess. A hexagon better approximates a circle than would triangles or diamonds. E.g. a dry forest is has 500 to 1000mm precipitation (actually to 2000mm) and an evavotranspiration ratio between 1 and 2, which would fill a diamond on this diagram. However at the extremes of these parameters it might start to be considered a steppe or a very dry forest, so the hexagon better approximates this, while still giving rigid boundaries without gaps. —Pengo22:09, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's why bees use hexagons in their honeycombs: they are the regular polygon with the most sides that still tessellates.--HereToHelp15:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support v2 v3 Enc, SVG, larger labels visible in preview (important since many people don't have the ability to read SVGs).--HereToHelp 15:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Weak support edit Overall it is fairly well done and informative. It isn't remarkably striking, but it is probably about as interesting an image you can get with the subject matter. The use of color helps, and the shapes are dynamic. Isn't that useful in a thumbnail because labels are hard to see, but the edit helps the preview be more readable. SVG is a plus so it can easily be translated, edited, and updated by others.-Andrew c03:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I actually like the asthetics of this picture, but I wonder if it might have too much noise in the sky. I would make a decision after seeing the opinion of a more capable user. JHMM1320:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Harsh shadows everywhere, grain in the sky, and it's nowhere near as sharp as it could be at that resolution --frothT23:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose a very artistic shot however could be more ENC. The focus and noise in the sky distract me more than the dark shadows. -Fcb98105:37, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support - Photo IS of high quality. the shadows are NOT that harsh, and the shadowing ads emphesis onto the colour of the rainbow. The waterfall behind is quite beautiful and SHARP! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Syberwolff (talk • contribs).
This is a high quality scan of Ernst Haeckel's arachnid illustrations from Kunstformen der Natur. I think it illustrates the article arachnid very well.
Oh, it's Haeckel-time again?! I'll support as soon as the species on the pic got articles. Otherwise it's more like eye candy. Oppose. --Dschwen16:17, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But it illustrates arachnid right? This seems like asking a panorama of New York city to link to articles of every building visible, not just the article on the city... Debivort20:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder why you chose that example :-), as I happen to have an example for just that (but maybe you knew that...). Granted, its not every building, but the notable ones (better than none at all...) --Dschwen09:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Haha no, that was a coincidence. That said, I think that image would have perfectly illustrated New York, without any blue links to the buildings - of course it's better with them though. Debivort21:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support The picture is attractive and highly informative. That we have no articles on the species is the (very understandable) fault of article-writers. 18:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Support - These ones are always good. Also the red links link to Commons articles, not Wikipedia. It is very unlikely that we are going to have pictures on every one of those species, even if an article was written. Chris_huhtalk12:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It's possible that we do have articles on some of these spiders, just that the scientific names have changed since this plate was drawn. That's often the case with Haeckel's drawings. It can be very difficult to track down the new names just using the web (i've done so with a few of his drawings before). For example spider #1 (Tegeocranus hericins) gets only 3 hits on Google, all somewhat based on this image's description page. Not hugely helpful. Anyone who wants to have a go finding new scientific names or common names is welcome. —Pengo13:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It seems a little overbrightened to me (the numbers and the lines that should be close to black are a pretty light grey), but it's something of a matter of taste... and an improvement, in any case. By the way, I can provide something closer to the original scan if it will help (before I fiddled with it in Picasa).--ragesoss19:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well technically the colored areas should not be affected (I spent about an hour creating a mask for this yesterday), but I toned it down a bit. I guess those darkened borders have a certain nostalgic appeal. ~ trialsanderrors19:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What's the hangup with this one? I could upload my edit over ragesoss's original if that solves the deadlock, since he already ok'ed it. ~ trialsanderrors06:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Older nominations requiring additional input from voters
These nominations have been moved here because consensus is impossible to determine without additional input from those who participated in the discussion. Usually this is because there was more than one edit of the image available, and no clear preference for one of them was determined. If you voted on these images previously, please update your vote to specify which edit(s) you are supporting.
The Las Vegas Strip at night viewed from the Bellagio - New OriginalRemoved all hot pixels and the halo around the bleu dome - Edit1 by AradEdit 2 The right side of the restich looked a little dull. I upped the levels over there but in hindsight maybe a touch too much, I still say it looks good -Fcb981
Comment Very cool picture, but I feel like I'm seeing double on the far right side, there seem to be some doubles of buildings. Also, in the center there are two bright green spots in the sky which I can't account for. The are a couple other lines which I can't understand where they're coming from. I don't know whether these are due to stitching errors or what, but I wonder whether it's possible to fix them? Or at least minimize the doubling effect on the right side? It's an awesome picture in any case, just thought I'd ask though. Mak(talk)20:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment They are not stitching errors, they are actually reflections. The only way to get this shot is to take it from inside the Bellagio which necessitates taking it from behind a non opening dual paned window. This led to some slight reflections at the right hand end where the camera was at a very oblique angle to the glass for the extreme right shots. For photographic purposes I would crop the panorama down to remove any reflections but I decided to leave the shot with them in as for encyclopedia purposes I felt it was more useful to include the Project City Center construction on the right. Mfield20:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - Great scene, but I'm afraid the reflections everywhere really kill it. Has anyone noticed a pair of blue lights, repeated about ten times across the whole length of the sky? Mrug222:25, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. Several minor issues. The color balance might be a tiny bit off towards too much yellow. I'd like to see the pano extended at the bottom. And there is that duplication effect from shooting through glass. Everything is doubled. The New York casino suddenly is the New York, New York Casino. --Dschwen15:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There is an odd halo effect around the blue dome near the center.. also there are still several hot pixels. Other than that, absolute rubbish just like the rest of your photos ;) heheh drumguy8800CT16:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Edit 1 - But I still see hot pixels. And there are a few bleu dots in the sky. They look wierd. What are they? --Arad20:46, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Info Edit 1 - removed all hot pixels and the halo around the bleu dome and Eiffel tower of Paris Hotel. --Arad21:20, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support new Original - Good job really. Amazing photo now. The edit 2 isn't much different. So I support both. --Arad04:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both I know it might seem odd for me to be opposing a picture I took, but I've just looked at it properly and realized how embarassingly badly the verticals are aligned and what a mess I made of something in the PP process which made it hazy. I am rebuilding it from scratch right now and I will replace my original so I am opposing both edits in the mean time. Mfield03:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Edit 1 - have replaced original with complete restitch, now is vastly improved over all previous edits. Mfield06:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose edit1, weak support new original. Great job on the verticals, and I very much prefer the new version in terms of contrast/exposure correction. --Dschwen08:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment It looks as if the new origenal and edit arn't being voted on. Should it be renominated or something so that conscensus can form. -Fcb98105:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I can't quite follow this "new original" stuff, so I'll just support which ever one is agreed upon by the community. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to get us much of anywhere…--HereToHelp22:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Edit 2 Ill support my oun edit as it now has some other support and I think it balances the image in terms of brightness better than the new original. -Fcb98104:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support New Original Fcb981's edit is good, but it leaves an awful green glare at the left side of the MGM Grand building. Arad's edit leaves the image kind of muddy (looks like smog) with washed out colors, and it isn't as clear. --Mad Max04:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Mammatus Cloud formation over Swifts Creek, Victoria. Mammatus Clouds only occur where cumulonimbus are present and are often the byproduct of strong storm activityAlternative
A short interlude between insect noms :-) Quite a dramatic skyline of relatively uncommon clouds.
Support Although the size of the right side forground black is on the big size I see no other problems with the picture. Keep up the good work. -Fcb98106:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support I like the contrast between the grayish white sky to the pitch black objects on the ground. The cloud looks surreal. However, I believe the alternative is better used for the article about the Mammatus clouds since only that certain cloud is featured while the original have maybe two or more other clouds. I might be wrong however.--BirdKr13:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My interpretation of the image is that it's raining in the distance where the clouds are so dark. This is an effect which is best seen in the plains (and which I hadn't seen clearly myself until I visited the desert in southern Idaho). Mak(talk)16:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've seen mammatus clouds before several times, but never with such high contrast between their light and dark regions, but if you can verify it... Debivort21:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for late reponse, the clouds were an excellent example and had very good definition. With a polarizer and correct exposure values the captured image was pretty close to this. Not saying that I didn't use some contrasting to enhance the visibility of the clouds, but I don't feel that this detracts from the image at all. --Fir000212:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support original Someone get the cloud experts in to add a description. Also, you should stick to the template for creating FPC nominations. The "articles this picture appears in" info is missing. ~ trialsanderrors19:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As discussed when the new template generator thingy came in, it was by no means consensus to use it. Adding the "articles this picture appears on" is not a requirement and is rather ridiculous, as no one should judge the image on the thumbnail on WP:FPC, but should go to the image page, where interested users can easily see the File Links section. --Fir000212:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What more do you want from a caption? It states what it is and where it was taken - any more and that's what the article is for! As a side note I notice you're supporting the arachnid nom above this which has a total of 1 extra word (number actually) in it's caption than this. But oh well if you really want something bigger. But may I remind you this is WP Featured Picture Candidates, not caption candidates and the primary focus of this page is identifying the best images not the best captions. All the caption on this page should have is what would be necessary in an article where it is placed. And in this case it is silly to restate what the article says like the caption on the Tawny Owl nomination. I think when I get a chance I'll go into this with more depth on the talk page, but for now I've tacked on a little bit from the article to accommodate your demands. --Fir000222:36, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is no reason to be come truculent. I see four editors here who have asked for a better description, and jfwiw, a good caption is part of the FP criteria, so the objection is perfectly valid. Oh and btw, the top quarter of the picture needs to be cropped. ~ trialsanderrors18:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. I don't find the subject particularly mind-blowing and the whitebalance is uneven across the picture, causing a slightly visibly stitching seam. --Dschwen12:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support either. Move my vote if it's in the wrong place. The caption is fine, because as Fir said, any more would be reinstating the article. I agree with BirdKr in that the alternate would be better to describe the article, but the original provides some perspective. --Tewy15:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but not for the purpose of promoting an image or not. I think as long as the caption on the nomination page says what's unique about the image, or otherwise details the image itself, the POTD caption can supplement the nomination caption with information from the article. But not promoting an image because it doesn't have a full POTD caption doesn't seem like a good reason to me. --Tewy05:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's a very good reason, because it shifts the burden of writing the POTD caption from the scheduler to the nominator. If you want your picture promoted it's perfectly fair to request that you also provide the context in which it will be presented on the front page. ~ trialsanderrors07:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support original But since some people are rather particular recently, I guess an extended caption would be appropriate..... -Wutschwlllm22:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support anything but the combined version. Not sure how this would work; maybe feature all of them as a set and link to the others on each description page? — frothT02:34, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support all in one or trialsanderrors' arrangement Very informative, maybe combine them into one big diagram or hve 4 FPs from 1 FPC nom? --antilivedT | C | G03:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support - if we can get this into one image - needs to function as PotD on the front page, some day. (The linear version could be left out... ;-) --Janke | Talk09:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I say use just the quadratic on the front page and have it as a set.. I'll find/design the set template after classes today (or during classes if I get bored :P) --frothT13:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I guess when the fractals go up we can do something like the thumbnail of the outermost image, the caption, and a "Click here to view the series" like the animation link. Then we can do the same thing for the beziers: have a frame of one of the animations (quadratic probably, maybe around t=.55?), the caption, and "Click here to view the series". --frothT18:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - Definitely. So that's how it's done! Perhaps just pic. 3 or 4 on its own, perhaps the last three combined? Mrug213:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support and Comment, I don't have the technology but I'd like to see one gif that is a 2x2 rectangle with time synced (putting "linear" on it's side and adding white space where needed so all four exemplars are the same dimensions). Can someone make something like this? --Cody.Pope05:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe have 5 sets of identical points and apply each degree of bézier curve to each of them (ie. linear for the first, which would be sharp zig zag lines, etc.)? --antilivedT | C | G08:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support These make quite interesting animations that aren't half as scary as the maths that goes with them. I think Antilived's idea that they should all have five points in a set pattern and then apply the different degree of curve to them would be good, perhaps should avoid too many right angles though. Terri G12:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support Holy cow, THIS is how Bezier curves work? I've always been confounded by these things, and here we are, a single animation that explains it all. Brilliant! --Golbez22:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. You know, I've never had a problem using Bezier curves in Illustrator in Inkscape ... all the article did was make it a lot more confusing. :) howcheng {chat}05:53, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Uncommon? I thought that beziers were usually on the order of dozens of degrees for like edge tracing/smoothing, and that these were just for demonstration of how it works. Also, multiple degrees are important to show how the algorithm scales- otherwise it wouldn't be so "intuitively informative" so we shouldn't just feature one of them. And I have no trouble at all tracking quartic, although the one after the one after quartic is a little disorienting --frothT18:28, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral for now. I agree with Janke that the set should be fitted in a single image. Also, a little more attention should be given to the details, like the position (not over the lines, please) and size of the labels, and the thickness of the lines, which should be consistent in all images. It is a nice and quite clear animation but can be improved. Alvesgaspar00:19, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Very cool. I like Antilived's idea (as much as I can understand it, which isn't much), and the Mendelbrot set is procedure should be used as a precedent.--HereToHelp19:29, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose, Strong support all-in-one version — I can see right now that my vote isn't going to change the outcome of this candidacy, but I think these images, even as animations, are FAR too small. We need higher resolution animations. Image:Bezier linear anim.gif would be a record for the smallest FP ever by a long shot. These are excellent animations, but they are incredibly tiny. ♠ SG→Talk03:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But do you actually gain any more information from a higher resolution image? These images could well have infinite spatial and temporal resolution with up and coming stuffs like svg animation but is it absolutely neccessary for them to be a few megabytes big just to have more than 1k pixels for one side? --antilivedT | C | G04:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If possible, svg animations would be really cool. It also means that the stills in the article could be vectorized. Still, there's nothing wrong with the rasters.--HereToHelp14:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent work on the new version! Not only were all of the animations added into one, but they were also made much larger than previously. As it stands, I would prefer that THAT particular image gain featured picture status, while the other versions (though I'd still like to see them larger) remain to be used in the article as they are and be linked to from the all-in-one version's description page. ♠ SG→Talk03:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there. Glad you all (well most of you:) liked my animations. I actually created them for another web page (that has never seen the light of day), and then uploaded them to wikipedia/wikicommons later. They were created using a rather hairy Bash script that outputs another script that invokes ImageMagick to create the GIFs and PNGs. I can resize, change colours, move the points around etc. pretty easily. About the only thing I can't do is increase the number of frames in the animations by much, because then the argument list gets too long! I think most complaints were about the size of the images and that they are different sizes. I created them for the Bezier Curve wiki page and not to a be Featured Picture, so I was trying to keep file sizes a small as possible while still getting the point across. I'll knock together another version, addressing these points. Oh, and if anyone wants the Bash script, they're welcome to it. --Twirlip17:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Here's an image of 1st to fourth order curves. They don't work very well any bigger than this without increasing the number of frames in the animation, which I have problems with. I tried to keep this image true to to the ones on the Bezier Curve page, because that's what it's showcasing. Bash script on its way tomorrow... --Twirlip00:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, I'd much rather have separate ones of the same width. Combining the images would be highly unusual and quite unnecessary. Great work twirl, keep it up
I've now put up some slightly bigger images an the originals (about the same size as they are in the combined image), and made them the all the same dimensions. Hopefully they'll make their way over from the commons soon... --Twirlip19:48, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support I always wondered what the distinction was between these different types? I once bought S/N 000136 of the very first Adobe Illustrator a long time ago (bezier curves). Now I know how the others work. Very nice! Greg L06:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, Support — While the images are very pretty, I don't think they're very effective at giving an intuitive idea of how a Bezier curve is constructed. The intermediate line segments don't seem to add anything of substance to the pictures - they don't seem to add any information. And the article doesn't give a good explanation of their purpose either. Take the quadratic case, for instance: I can choose a point P1-prime, distinct from and further out from the original P1, and arrange it so that the green line segment is tangential to the red Bezier curve for every intermediate state in that case as well. So, by this sort of geometric illustration, nothing about P1 uniquely defines the curve - two distinct points P1 can define the same curve. There needs to be more information in the picture; for instance, what determines the point along the green segment where it's tangential to the curve? --Paul17:12, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I can see an argument that given three points P0, P1, P2, the Bézier curve needs to be uniquely defined, but how does that translate into an argument that that curve has to be distinct from one defined by P0', P1, P2? Also, the location of the tangent point on the green line is quite obviously defined by t. I don't even need to description to see that. ~ trialsanderrors19:02, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In answer to your first question: it doesn't. You're right, and I didn't articulate my point quite as well as I would've liked to. I was only trying to state the first part of your question: that given three points (...), the Bézier curve needs to be uniquely defined. But I don't think that's illustrated very well with the graphical technique used. The information that seems to be missing are the visual factors determining the enpoints, Q1 and Q2, of the green line segment. Without that info, the choice of Q1 and Q2 seems to be arbitrary for any particluar value of the parameter t, and we could trace-out any curve at all in the absence of this info. But then, maybe I'm splitting hairs here. After all, the position of (for instance) Q1 along the line segment P1-P2 would be decided by another parametric equation that's almost a projection of the original, and that would be difficult to illustrate in a more intuitive fashion. Perhaps the most important aspects of this have been successfully demonstrated intuitively, and I'm just trying to hash-out the details for myself. --Paul22:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, that would be P0, P1, P2, not P1, P2, P3 (have another look at the diagram for the quadratic case). Perhaps that caused some of the confusion? --Paul22:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Labeling fixed, thanks. The endpoints of the green line are defined in the same way as the pencil point on the green line, it moves from Q1 to Q2 at linear speed (i.e. it replicates the movement of the linear Bézier). That's the same principle that governs every single movement of a point along a line in all versions. I see nothing arbitrary about this. Simplified, if the starting point is 0 and the endpoint is 1, the position of the moving point at time t is t. (To make it clear, I don't have any prior knowledge of Béziers nor did I read the article in detail. The algorithm is perfectly simple and obvious from looking at the animation.) ~ trialsanderrors22:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I totally missed the fact of all the motion being linear / constant-speed. *smacks forehead* (and yes, it's very obvious in retrospect) --Paul16:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The actual algorithm for computing a bezier curve doesn't have to involve tangency. Take the quadratic one for example. The bezier curve is defined by the a point moving through space. This point is the midpoint of the green line. As time goes by, the endpoints of the green line go from P0 to P1 and from P1 to P2 respectively, at a rate of distance/time. For higher degrees of curve, P0 P1 and P2 aren't defined by the grey lines anymore- they're defined by a chain of parent functions that go all the way up to the grey lines through the same algorithm. So these intermediate line segments show how Bezier curves are algorithmically constructed, although mathematically the curve can still be expressed by
It's not the midpoint of the green line, the black dot (i.e., the "pencil") moves along the green line governed by the value of t. At t = 0, it's at the start of the green line, at t = 1, it's at the end. I haven't looked at the maths involved, but from eyeballing it's very plausible that it's always a tangent point. ~ trialsanderrors21:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've rescinded my original opposition. I think this does a damn good job at illustrating and giving an intuitive feel for how a bezier curve is constructed, in the ways that matter most. My initial objection was too pedantic. --Paul22:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per my original vote, also, I'm comfy with any consensus choice. The combo image needs a little tweaking, the Po is touching the line in the first image. Having seen the combo, I really think the Quartic would be best as FP, with links to the others. --Janke | Talk09:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
More comments: The combo above looks good, but the animations are not synchronized - but I don't know if that really matters. The linear could be drawn out a little, to fill the empty space in the upper left quadrant. --Janke | Talk08:01, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They can be asynchronous the first time you download the page, since animated gifs start immediately after downloading. The second time the files are already in your browser cache, so they should start synchronously. ~ trialsanderrors21:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Still support cubic. Higher order curves a rarely used. "Quadratic and cubic Bézier curves are most common; higher degree curves are more expensive to evaluate. When more complex shapes are needed, low order Bézier curves are patched together." ed g2s • talk23:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support the all-in-one version. Very, very nice. And what an excellent visualization. We need a lot more images like this. --Cyde Weys01:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. My preference is for the four curves to be promoted as a set but kept as separate images. One can be selected as representative of the set when it comes to Main Page appearances etc. Pstuart84Talk15:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Place the following text at the bottom of the WP:FPC/subpage:
{{FPCresult|Not promoted| }} [[Category:Ended featured picture nominations]]
Do NOT put any other information inside the FPCresult template. It should be copied and pasted exactly.
Move the nomination entry to the bottom of the October archive. This is done by simply moving the line {{Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Image name}} from this page to the bottom of the archive.
Remove the {{FPC}} tag from the image and any other suggested versions. If any of those images were on Commons, be sure to tag the description pages with {{missing image}}.
When promoted, perform the following:
Place the following text at the bottom of the WP:FPC/subpage:
{{FPCresult|Promoted|Image:FILENAME.JPG}} [[Category:Ended featured picture nominations]]
Replace FILENAME.JPG with the name of the file that was promoted. It should show up as:
Promoted Image:FILENAME.JPG
Do NOT put any other information inside the FPCresult template. It should be copied and pasted exactly.
Move the nomination entry to the bottom of the October archive. This is done by simply moving the line {{Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Image name}} from this page to the bottom of the archive.
Add the image to the appropriate section of Wikipedia:Featured pictures - newest on right and remove the oldest from the left so that there are always three in each section.
NOTE: Because animated GIFs usually cannot be resized properly, do not add them to this page.
Don't forget to update the count too.
Add the image to the proper sub-page of Wikipedia:Featured pictures - note the two sections (wikipedian / non-wikipedian) - newest on bottom
The caption should for a Wikipedian should read "Description at Article, by Photographer". For a non-Wikipedian, it should be similar, but if the photographer (or organization) does not have an article, use an external link. Additionally, the description is optional -- if it's essentially the same as the article title, then just use "Article, by Photographer". Numerous examples can be found on the various Featured Pictures subpages.
Update the picture's tag, replacing {{FPC}} with {{FeaturedPicture|''Image name''}} (the "Image name" parameter will link back to the FPC discussion), and remove {{FPC}} from alternatives of the promoted image. If the alternatives were on Commons, be sure to tag the description page with {{missing image}}.
If an alternate version of the originally nominated image is promoted, make sure that all articles contain the Featured Picture version, as opposed to the original.
Notify the nominator by placing {{subst:PromotedFPC|Image:file_name.xxx}} on the nominator's talk page. For example: {{subst:PromotedFPC|Image:Blue morpho butterfly.jpg}}
If the image was created by a Wikipedian, place {{subst:UploadedFP|Image:file_name.xxx}} on the creator's talk page. For example: {{subst:UploadedFP|Image:Blue morpho butterfly.jpg}}
Nomination for delisting
Here you can nominate featured pictures you feel no longer live up to featured picture standards. Please leave a note on the original uploader and/or nominator's talk page to let him know the delisting is being debated. The user may be able to address the issues and avoid the delisting of the picture. Please use the tool below to nominate for delisting.
Note: Please use Delist or Keep as your vote.
If consensus is to keep status then archive nomination for removal on archive page and optionally leave a note on the picture's talk page, also note your conclusion on the bottom of the removal candidacy section.
{{*If consensus is to remove status then replace the {{FeaturedPicture}} tag }}with {{FormerFeaturedPicture|discussion page}} (replace "discussion page" with the name of the discussion page), also note your conclusion on the bottom of the removal candidacy section. Also remove the image from the appropriate sub-page of Wikipedia:Featured pictures and the appropriate section of Wikipedia:Featured pictures thumbs. Don't forget to decrement the count at the top of Wikipedia:Featured pictures too.
Note that delisting an image does not equal deleting it. Delisting from FP in no way affects the image's status in its article(s).
Keep for now I also prefer this version to the new SVG, maybe have a SVG version of this and replace the currently used one? --antilivedT | C | G05:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I didn't intend this to be a replacement nom as the SVG has some problems that would have to be fixed first. One such problem is that the background color for the lower left corner is different from the background for the rest of image. The SVG version includes some information that is not in the PNG, the "La Elipa" station on line 2 for example. There is also a third map, Image:Madrid Metro 2003-2006.svg, that includes planned extensions (thumbnail and preview versions of this image are currently not working, it seems). --KFP (talk | contribs) 13:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If someone would tell me how to create an SVG version from a Photoshop vector image, I'd be happy to do so, or to send my version to someone who can do so for me. - Montréalais14:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And Pinar de Chamartín. God, if only we could build metro anywhere near this fast.
OK, then let's get the svg version up to speed and replace this one. Otoh, if this was part of a specual en-bloc nomination maybe it belongs to a "featured set" under the new proposed definition? ~ trialsanderrors20:57, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – original is much better than newer map (though the garish blue and red “Metro de Madrid” lettering at the bottom is pretty awful). --jacobolus(t)23:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think this photograph of Matti Vanhanen, the prime minister of Finland, illustrates the article well. While the WOW!! factor may not be very high, the image does have encyclopedic value and the composition and technical quality are also quite good.
Weak Support I completely agree with the nominator on this. Very enc, however I am going weak do to the (as the nom said) weak Wow!! factor. ~ Arjun22:43, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak SupportChanged to Neutral - Also, why the wrinkles on his face look so wierd? They look more like compression artifacts. |:-D (My Middle Eastern smiley with a unibrow). --Arad00:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose it does illustrate the article nicely, but FPs should also be technically sound. He's not looking at the photographer and the background is kind of bland too. - Mgm|(talk)09:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose He's the Prime Minister, there are probably higher quality pictures taken of him every single day. Its fine for illustrating the article I guess, but are there no official state portraits of him?Meniscus14:30, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support I agree with the "no wow factor" but what it loses there, it gains by capturing the human element of the subject. Coricus 10:07, 20 February 2007 (UTC) The guys below have talked up my opinion. The wrinkles mentioned above and distressed look are what make it work as a picture. Support.Coricus09:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a great photo in terms of quality. I oppose the use of this image in an infobox, because it doesn't have an official air; however getting a photo of a politician in a somewhat distressed state of mind (let alone a public domain one) is fantastic. I think it brings out the humanity of the subject. 60.230.105.56 08:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC) (signing in ... Leon08:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Support Outstanding non-posed photo. An official portrait is probably still more appropriate in the infobox on his page, but this is an eye-catching photo for use elsewhere. ProhibitOnions(T)22:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose/Comment -- It's never going to be featured picture quality, but this photo would be helped by cropping out some of the right and top, and maybe even a tiny bit off all sides. --jacobolus(t)00:53, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support It seems high quality to me, and although some people do not like its composition, I think it's nice to have a non-posed picture. Free images of people seem to be rather hard to come by which gives it additional credence in my opinion. Basar06:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I think it would look less realistic if the subject was looking at the camera. Technically it's quite good, in my opinion... typhoonchaser07:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Decent quality shot, but the face looks odd in close-up (Photoshopped?), the lighting is not very interesting, and it would look odd on the main page. ~ trialsanderrors23:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I can see the contrast enhancement but I have absolutely no idea how/why the noise filtering was done. I think the original has acceptable amount of noise for human skin while the edit looks like three layers of Clearasil. Don't you think it would be odd to have a head of state looking away from the camera with a puzzled expression on his face on the main page? ~ trialsanderrors03:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I have liked this picture since the first time i saw it (a couple months ago i believe). It does make him look human. SECProto00:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This image may require copyright status verification, the only statement I can find on the G8 website is "If you wish to re-publish photos, you must provide a link to www.g8russia.ru." --KFP (talk | contribs) 21:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is how it is currently interpreted on the image page ({{Attribution}} image copyright tag). However, the statement on the G8 website does not indicate that creation of derivative works is allowed. --KFP (talk | contribs) 14:30, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Another "shopped" coin via the US Mint and edited by fellow Wikipedians.
Reason
Per this delist, this current nomination and two former failed nominations (this one and this one) it features the same cameo effect as the 4 other coins, abeit with heavy editing by other wikipedia editors. If we're gonna discuss more about this type of shop, we should also include this one to the table as well.
I'd like to clarify. If there's a version of the same resolution but without the cameo effect, I recommend that to be nominated for FP. But in the meantime there seems no reason to delist this image. --Tewy23:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delist. Cameo and unnecessarily huge resolution. Not only is it oversampled to that resolution but I have a very hard time viewing it at full size- since it's just a coin there are very large fields of solid color --frothTC23:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like there's less image data than pixels.. I don't know how that happened though. Looking around the image intuition tells me I see maybe 1.1 pixel sized groups of samples --frothTC00:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Cameo proofs and US Mint photography style sometimes look tacky, but not in this case. Also, the cameo style is problematic with coins that are in regular circulation because most people see them in a scuffed, non-cameo form, while a bullion coin like this is meant to be sold to collectors and most specimens should look this shiny. —Dgiestc23:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And I say again elsewhere: Can you guarantee 100% that if I bought said coin, it'll look like that? I have seen examples of said coin in hand, and it DOESN'T look like the US Mint Picture.--293.xx.xxx.xx05:38, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Methinks the licence tag on all US Mint coins is wrong: [5]. This seems to be a "covered coin"", but the stament that the coin is ineligible for copyright is contradicted by the link. In particular the Sacagawea Golden Dollar has a copyright notice embedded in the picture. ~ trialsanderrors00:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The buffalo nickel seems to be covered by those additional terms. Anyway the only applicable term seems to be the last one and wikipedia does that very well: When the obverse and/or reverse design of any Covered Coin obtained from any United States Mint source is reproduced for publication, credit should be given as follows: "United States Mint image." The credit should be clearly legible and placed next to the coin design reproduction. The following may be used instead if a credit page is provided: "United States coin image [or images] from the United States Mint." --frothTC00:12, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So in other words this one is a copyvio since it's not a "Covered Coin"? → "This policy does not cover use of the design of any coin not specifically defined above as a Covered Coin. For example, it does not cover the Golden Dollar coin featuring Sacagawea." In any case, the licence tag should be corrected since it's clearly not true that US coins are "ineligible for copyright" and in the public domain. Currency in my understanding is always copyrighted by the Central Bank. ~ trialsanderrors01:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Re-read your quote: "This policy doesn't cover use of non-covered coins. For example it doesn't cover use of the golden dollar." Therefore the golden dollar isn't covered by the terms.. but even if it was wikipedia satisfies the terms. --frothTC02:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Covered Coins ← OK to reproduce with attribution, Non-covered Coins ← Not ok to reproduce, even with attribution. "The United States Mint will not object to use of the obverse or reverse design of (... long list ...) (each, a "Covered Coin" and collectively, "Covered Coins")" This one does not seem to be among the listed Covered Coins (since it's not the Buffalo Nickel) and so the US Mint objects and "does not grant any waiver, release, or written permission of the Director under 18 U.S.C. § 709i or 31 U.S.C. § 333". ~ trialsanderrors02:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That specific policy doesn't grant any release to non covered coins, but it doesn't mean that release hasn't been granted elsewhere. Presumably since that branch of the mint doesn't have jurisdiction over all coins. --frothTC05:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That argument sounds a bit, uh, manufactured, especially since the headline of the webpage is "United States Mint Circulating Coin Design Use Policy". ~ trialsanderrors06:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hm.. well try this argument: The policy releases the specifically mentioned coins under certain conditions that make them ineligable for Public Domain. The policy also makes it clear that these conditions do not extend in any way to coins not mentioned (golden dollar for example). Since those other coins have no specific terms, and they're the work of the US Government, they're automatically released into the public domain. --frothTC06:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
However works of the US govenment aren't eligible for copyright protection.. they're automatically released into the public domain unless withheld by additional conditions. see [6][7][8] --frothTC20:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
$105, "but the United States Government is not precluded from receiving and holding copyrights transferred to it by assignment, bequest, or otherwise" applies here, as clearly stated on the US Mint website. ~ trialsanderrors21:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But you might have a good point about all US currency not being public domain since some of it seems to be released under conditions (albiet conditions that WP satisfies) --frothTC02:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the designer and engraver credit listed is the designer of the 1913 Buffalo nickel, which is a "Covered coin". I think the only way this would not be PD is if there was copyright held by the photographer. Still it would be good to know for sure. —Dgiestc21:31, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's licensing@usmint.treas.gov but I'd rather not be the one to ask permission. In any case, with "Federal Fridays" I doubt we'll get an answer before Monday. —Dgiestc21:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry I may have used the term incorrectly. I meant to refer to the photoshopped background, and thought we have been using the term "cameo" to refer to that. In either case, I vote delist because of obvious photoshoppery in the background. Debivort06:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think that it is just fine with the cameo in this case. It is an excellent picture of a collecter Buffalo Gold Coin. Why1991 01:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Strong Keep as this seems to just be up for delisting to bolster an FPC argument and to prove a point, this is hardly the place for either... the better place to mention this if you want to use this as an example why these shouldn't be listed would be just to mention it in the current noms for coins. Cat-five - talk11:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Why not list it? We're questioning the validity of another shopped US coin, which is completely unnatural in apperance and doesn't have any equilvelent counterpart in real life. This coin also has the same questioned criteria as well. Which might be a moot point, because of the pending copyright problem above. --293.xx.xxx.xx10:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment So....anyone get info on if the coin images are Public Domain or ZOMG, WE'RE GONNA BE RAIDED BY TEH FEDERALI!!!! type of deal?--293.xx.xxx.xx22:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
After I closed this User:293.xx.xxx.xx pointed out to me that the copyright status of this picture hasn't been resolved yet. I'm putting this here in 'suspended nominations' until it can be sorted out fully. Raven4x4x12:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This source gives the date of original engraving as 1913, which would put it into the PD as expired copyright, but I would think it's the burden of the original uploader to confirm this. ~ trialsanderrors18:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then again, the design was "refreshed" for the $50 denomination, so that kinda leaves a grey area of sorts. The design might be PD, but the additions of the legends and denominations might lend the coin to be "copyright" by the US Mint. Just want to be 100% sure it's legit.--293.xx.xxx.xx22:15, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Um, no, because by keeping it here, we can get a clear understanding if it violates or fulfills Criteria #4. The FP tag hasn't been changed on the image page yet, and nobody has given a clear opinion on whats what. --293.xx.xxx.xx12:07, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just a thought on the refreshing of the design: in german copyright law there is the concept of Schoepfungshoehe which describes the amount of creative work. Trivial additions such as legendtext, contrast enhancement or putting numbers on the engraving would most likely not lead to sustainable copyright claims under german law. Comon sense suggest it is likely to be the same for US law. --Dschwen(A) 10:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Any copyrighted expression must be “original.” Feist Pubs., Inc. v. Rural Tel. Serv. Co., 499 U.S. 340, 345 (1991). Although the amount of creative input by the author required to meet the originality standard is low, it is not negligible. See Feist, 499 U.S. at 362. There must be something more than a “merely trivial” variation, something recognizably the artist’s own. Three Boys Music Corp. v. Bolton, 212 F.3d 477, 489 (9th Cir. 2000). The originality requirement mandates that objective “facts” and ideas are not copyrightable. Baker v. Selden, 101 U.S. (11 Otto) 99 (1879); Feist, 499 U.S. at 347; Roth Greeting Cards v. United Card Co., 429 F.2d 1106, 1109-10 (9th Cir. 1970). Similarly, expressions that are standard, stock, or common to a particular subject matter or medium are not protectable under copyright law. See v. Durang, 711 F.2d 141, 143 (9th Cir. 1983). --Dschwen06:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Two more things (always considering IANAL):
In 1991 in the case of Feist Publications, Inc., v. Rural Telephone Service Co., Inc. (499 US 340) the U.S. Supreme Court basically rejected the Sweat of brow doctrine. I.e. just because something took a lot of work to create does not justify a copyright claim.
Facts are not copyrightable. Ok I mentioned this before, but the denomination of the coin: fact, the year it was issued: fact, the issuer: fact. The arrangement of the letters: trivial.
IMHO this case can be closed. And there wasn't any helpful input for one and a half months. It all boils down to the original artwork, which has already determined to be free. --Dschwen08:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Update I've been in contact with the U.S. Mint and have a phone call scheduled for tomorrow. So I hope we'll get some more info then, although I doubt it will be a decisive Yes or No. ~ trialsanderrors00:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How did it go? Tomorrow was two days ago. I still stand by my argument (which nobody bothered to comment on :-( ) that we should be fine keeping this pic. --Dschwen19:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The phone call never came. I'll wait until tomorrow night and if nothing happens I'll summarize the e-mail exchange on the Commons page. ~ trialsanderrors21:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Skip to current candidates
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Support - great example of the proper use of SVG. —Vanderdecken∴ ∫ξφ 18:15, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
that Debivort did: take individual pictures of pasta noodles and stich them all together into one single picture, so you avoid the flash reflection. howcheng {chat} 20:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
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