Talk:Three Mile Island accident: Difference between revisions

Diagrams? It's great to hear about valves and pumps, etc., but a diagram will explain a lot that can't be efficiently explained by text... 69.212.106.44 13:50, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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An event in this article is a March 28 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment)

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Removed "the accident was not serious." Granted no one died, but any accident that cost a $1 billion to fix and killed an entire industry strikes me as a big oops.

See comment below re "one excess fatal cancer."

Killed an industry? The US has the largest nuclear generating industry in the world, over 100 reactors producing over 8% of total US output. Hardly dead.

Is it true that no new reactors were ordered after TMI - only in process ones completed? Also "2.5 million curies of radioactive gas" is wrong. Curies measure an amount of radiation - not a volume of gas. Is there a good way to rephrase this? --rmhermen

No new reactors have been made since the 70's for comercial perposes. the thing that really killed it was the desicion in the US to not reprocess the spent fule rods.

Actually, a curie measures an amount of radioactivity (not radiation). (The SI unit is the Becquerel). A Becquerel is an amount of radioactive material that produces one decay per second. So this is a correct unit for the answer. --Andrew 20:16, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)

The figure of 2.5 million curies / 90 PBq on this article page has been queried on the talk page for Windscale. Can we have a source for this figure, please? I've seen a figure of 3 x 10^17 Bq (of Xenon 133) quoted in Radiation and Health: The Biological Effects of Low Level Exposure to Ionizing Radiation Edited by Robin Russell Jones and Richard Southwood, published by John Wiley ISBN 0-471-91674-9.Blaise 07:58, 2005 May 11 (UTC)

• J. Samuel Walker, the NRC's official historian, has written in his new book on TMI that "the accident discharged up to 13 million curies of radioactive noble gases to the environment" (231), but "less than 20 curies" of iodine-131 (238). Hope that is helpful. --Fastfission 12:31, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

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How many square km are 814 acres ? Thanks, it's for a translation into French. Yann

About 3.3 km^2. -- Coneslayer 19:46, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

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The phrase "no one died at Three Mile Island" has become almost a slogan. It is an oversimplification. The correct statement is that there were no identifiable deaths. Estimates are unreliable because radiation monitoring was spotty and it is not clear just how much radiation the local population was exposed to, but the official report (below) estimated "one excess fatal cancer." In other words, someone was killed by radiation, we just have no way of identifying who. Mortality among the Residents of the Three Mile Island Accident Area: 1979-1992 found statistically significant mortality elevations, but dismisses it as inconclusive. A correlation with radiation exposure and breast cancer was found but assumed not to reflect causality, for reasons I cannot follow.

Certainly the health effects were so small as to be statistical and difficult to detect, but a flat assertion that there were none goes too far.

Authority for the estimate of "one excess fatal cancer:"

Battist L, Buchanan J, Congel F, Nelson C, Nelson M, Peterson H, Rosenstein M. Population Dose and Health Impact of the Accident at the Three Mile Island Nuclear Station. Preliminary Estimates for the Period March 28 through April, 1979. Washington, DC:U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 1979.

Dpbsmith 22:08, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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Presidential influence muting criticism voiced in report: citation?

The article says:

According to Admiral Hyman Rickover, the key figure in the development of nuclear power plants and a close confidant of the president, the original report was so critical of the nuclear power industry's safety lapses that if it had been released, all nuclear plants in the US would probably be forced to close. The final version was more muted, at the command of Jimmy Carter.

There really ought to be some reference given for that. Which "report" is being described? The Kemeny report? Kemeny was not part of the government or the military, nor were other members of the panel, and would not have been under "command" of Jimmy Carter," though they might, of course, have responded to Presidential influence.

I'm not doing to do anything about this now, but if I remember to come back in a month or two and if that statement is still in there without any citation or reference, I'll be inclined to snip it. Dpbsmith 00:15, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I removed the POV implication that President Carter undeniably commanded that the final report be muted. Rookkey 02:30, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

General public's approval rating for nuclear power?

An anon added this paragraph to the article:

Another effect, and one usually overlooked, is the physchological impact on the nation and on those who lived near the plant. Before the accident nuclear power was considered one of the great awe inspiring inventions of the twentieth century, and enjoyed an aproximatly seventy percent approval rating. After this accident, support for nuclear power across the country fell to about fifty percent, where it has remained.

I don't think this effect has been "usually overlooked" and nothing is cited to suggest that it was, so I've removed that phrase. I think it was nuclear weaponry rather than peaceful nuclear electricity generation that was "considered one of the great awe inspiring inventions of the twentieth century" so I've removed this phrase too. I've generally toned down the language to read:

Another effect was the psychological impact on the nation. Before the accident approximately seventy percent of the general public approved of nuclear power. After this accident, support for nuclear power across the country fell to about fifty percent, where it has remained.

But I still see a problem with the use of the phrases "seventy percent approval rating" and "support for nuclear power across the country fell to about fifty percent, where it has remained," without any citation of the source or nature of these "approval ratings."

In a general way, I don't think anybody would challenge the statement that the Three Mile Island accident reduced public approval of nuclear electric-power generation in the United States. But I don't like the false precision of the numbers. Unless they are sourced, in a week or so I'll probably rewrite this sentence, too. I'll see whether I can find some objective/authoritative source(s) that can be cited to show the impact Three Mile Island had on public support for nuclear power. If not, the impact is so obvious to anyone old enough to have lived through it that I think a general statement that the TMI accident "caused significant and long-lasting decline in public support for nuclear power" is OK, but no number and percentages if they can't be sourced. Dpbsmith 11:16, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Public support is a vague way to judge the impact. It's simple enough to show that there have been no new plants authorized since 1978. Of the 129 plants authorized to be built at the time of TMI, suggesting a boom during the energy crisis, just 53 were ever completed.

Ohio.com article

It reduced it not only in the US, but all over the world Eric B. and Rakim 00:57, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It would be wonderful to have actual facts; I am sure that they exist (public opinion polls, numbers of station licenses granted over time, etc.). I'll check some of the sources that might have them (I'm thinking Garwin's _Megawatts and Megatons_ probably does) and if so, add them in... others are welcome to do this as well, of course! --Fastfission 20:57, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

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Changed sentence indicating that the quench tank ruptured to say the quench tank rupture disk ruptured which is a design feature of the quench tank. The pressure relief valve for that quench tank had already opened but could not vent the full amount of flow coming from the stuck pressurizer relief valve.

Changed the sentence indicating a hydrogen explosion in the reactor to say a hydrogen explosion in the reactor building. Even that is a probable explanation as no one was in the building and only instrumentation readings and a "bump" felt in the control room lead to that conclusion.

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How about some basic geography of the island? I just had someone ask me how long the island was, and I can't find the answer anywhere. --Carnildo 04:24, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Is that a joke? =) Well, try looking at Mapquest. If they can keep the URL stable for awhile. That's more-or-less centered on the plant. (Pity they don't have the aerial photo anymore. Or is it by subscription or something?)

Also: regarding Rickover's pursuading Carter to whitewash the report and his regret thereof, it may be more accurate to say "according to an affidavit sworn by his daughter-in-law Jane"[1] unless you know of some more direct source. Kwantus 22:57, 2004 Nov 20 (UTC)

Aerial photo of TMI pstudier 05:30, 2004 Dec 1 (UTC)

Lack of clarity in event discription

The event description needs work and may be incorrect or oversimplified. Specifically the sequence of events which led to the partial meltdown. Sources at PBS might be helpful in clarifing this incident.

I agree completely. I'm currently reviewing a book about TMI and will try and brush up the entry a bit. About five discrete things went wrong at TMI (a mix of technical failure and operator error) which should be highlighted. --Fastfission 17:14, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The China Syndrome

I was about to correct the grammar in the section of the article entitled The China Syndrome, but then it struck me how irrelevant the entire section is to the topic. I think maybe this section belongs in another article, perhaps an article about the movie or the actress or activation. Anyone else for chopping this section?

Jdbartlett 20:26, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would agree. There should be a mention and a link, but the section probably belongs elsewhere. --Millsdavid 23:02, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The China Syndrome was essential to the reception of the TMI accident, most because of its timing but also because of some of its similiarities (stuck valves, vibrations, faulty or unhelpful indicators, human errors in the assumption of the level of the coolant, etc.) in the accident itself. If anything I think more ought to be written on it, if we are really going to talk about the "aftermath" (more should be written on the attitudes towards nuclear power before TMI as well, considering an almost duplicate accident had happened two years earlier and was dismissed as a freak occurrence). All of these things added up to the reception of the accident both by the public but also by the politicians, the NRC, etc. --Fastfission 17:17, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Then "The China Syndrome" should, at most, be a subsection of "Aftermath". I certainly agree that we should discus the manner in which people reacted to it in relation to the TMI accident, but I believe its plot and lead actress should be detailed in a "China Syndrome" article, not in this one. For the purpose of this article, the plot can be described succinctly as a movie that raised awareness of the nuclear safety issue.

location

where exactly is three mile island?

Next to Goldsboro, Pennsylvania. Three Mile Island on Google Maps. --Fastfission 22:21, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

PORV

Reverted section about PORV. IIRC, the PORV exhaust line was always hot because it had a cronic leak. Don't have a reference handy. pstudier 19:20, 2005 Apr 25 (UTC)

Secret report?

I removed the following changes by an anon:

A report comissioned by President Carter concluded that nuclear power plans in the US were inherently unsafe and should all be shut down. Later, after pressure from the nuclear power lobby, a toned-down report was released about the incident.

... Over the years, journalists who have tried to find this earlier report have been rebuffed by Jimmy Carter and/or the editors they work for. Some have been threated with violence to themselves and their families.

I'd really like to see such information cited if you are going to make claims that former U.S. presidents have been threatening people's families. Additionally -- if the report was made secret, how do we even know it existed or was real? Again, citations needed so this sort of thing can be verified and NPOVed if necessary. --Fastfission 29 June 2005 23:38 (UTC)