Talk:The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask: Difference between revisions

Masks

Well, now that I've made a more indepth mask section, can I delete the previous one, or is mine a bit too much?

The previous section probably shouldn't be completely deleted. I combined the two for now. --Matteh 01:32, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

10 feet tall?

This may be slightly unimportant, but I don't think the Fierce Diety mask makes Link 10 feet tall, this is an exaggeration. The Fierce Diety mask uses a similar player model to that of adult Link in Ocarina of Time, and adult Link isn't that tall!

While the Fierce Deity model is based on the Adult Link one in shape, its size is in fact much larger. Try standing next to a wall with brick work (so you have horizontal lines) such as in the room for Odalwa, the first boss, and change from Link's various forms into FD and you will notice quite a difference. He is more than twice as tall as Link, and considerably taller than Zora Link. However 10 foot is, as far as I am aware, just an estimation, and I shall reword the info for the mask and a couple of others. Ian Moody 14:46, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, if we guesstimate that Adult Link was 6ft, and Fierce Deity is even bigger as mentioned, 10 foot may not be far off, but it should be changed, not because it "sounds" wrong (a 10-ft-high person, out of context, sounds exaggerated) but since there is no unrefutable ingame proof. What would be nice is if someone with the *coughemulatedcough* game could make a screenshot montage with Child Link and Oni Link side by side, to show users the height difference. Heck, a height guesstimate could be made using that by counting the pixels!

So if someone could make that and make it fit nicely on the page, it would probably be very helpful. In the meantime I'll see if I can get my hands on the Oni Link promotional art I saw a while back. Master Thief Garrett 11:08, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My bad, it's gone now. But even so a comparison shot could be nice. Master Thief Garrett 11:25, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As a side note, everything in cyberspace has no height at all. Absolutely none. IF things had size, computers would be huge.

Oath to Order/Ode of Order

Are there versions of the game that display this song in the inventory as "Ode of Order"? I just checked my version (Zelda Collector's Edition, Gamecube) and it clearly shows "Oath to Order" after it's played and in the inventory. I found an N64 screenshot showing "Oath to Order" here. Jh51681 09:59, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Not having the actual game, I relied on various hint/cheat sites to verify the correct word. I (and they) could definitely be wrong for at least some games. Maybe we should replace 'Ode' with 'Ode/Oath'? Silas Snider (talk) 04:06, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)

They could be mistranslations or older versions, but I'm not sure which. A Google search for Zelda "Oath to Order" shows 600+ links, while Zelda "Ode of Order" shows only two, one of which is a dupe of this article. Jh51681 04:50, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sometimes games (not necessarily Zelda) are revised for a different region, changing words if they are "wrong" in that region. So say a game mentioned aluminum, it'd probably be changed to aluminium for non-US countries. However I don't think Oath/Ode would be inapplicable in ANY English-speaking country...

There was some de-religion-ising in revised versions of OOT (removal of Muslim symbol, alteration of song based off Muslim chant, etc.) so it could be that this game too had content changed. Maybe someone thought "Ode" alluded to praying to/singing to a god or something like that, I don't know.

So one of those is possibly the answer. You could always ask at the 1964 emulator forum or something, and I'm sure they'd tell you which ROM revisions featured it, and whether or not it had been altered for the GC versions. Master Thief Garrett 11:22, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Lack of Screenshots

It'd be nice if someone could take some shots of the game, preferably with your console hooked to the computer through a TV tuner (although, a rom would be an alright alternative). :3 -- A Link to the Past 23:25, July 10, 2005 (UTC)

Emulated screenshots are the purest and the ideal, as long as the game is run at original resolution (640x480?) and with all enhancements (Super2xSaI, antialiasing, etc.) turned off.

Alternately, using unwatermarked press pack screenshots would be fine, but of course then it's limited to only what Ninty screenshotted. Garrett^Talk 23:36, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

What about the TV tuner idea? I mean, if it could be done, shouldn't it be done as such? -- A Link to the Past 00:10, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

What is Zelda Gaiden??

"Gaiden" means "sidestory" (approximately) in Japanese. It was the development title for Majora's Mask. (It is, after all, a sidestory.) Setokaiba 07:30, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't THe Legend of Zelda Gaiden originally for the 64DD as an expansion for the Ocarina of Time, (like the Ura Zelda), Zelda Gaiden, would include a different overworld and a new adventure. And the project was cancelled due to the lack of popularity of the 64DD, Nintendo decided just to make Zelda Gaiden a stand alone game the Majora's Mask. And the Ura Zelda was added to a special 'Master Quest' for Gamecube.

This website would explan it better http://www.japan-101.com/video_games/ura_zelda.htm

Interesting intentions

I may be twenty-four years old, but I am currently playing Majora's Mask, and due to this, I have attained knowledge that I am positive will be informative and rewarding to this article. Also, I am a Wikipedian who contributes to articles that eventually receive featured article status, this desire coming from improving Wikipedia on a daily basis. This is a campaign I have started outside Wikipedia boundaries. So first and foremost, this article should begin citing its sources and references. --Hollow Wilerding 14:51, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I can't see what references or sources one would need to add or cite (except maybe the EGM award, one can cite where they found that information). The Wikipedians probably wrote this entire article on their own, from their own knowledge of the game. I, myself, know enough about the game to write an article like this one. -- RattleMan 15:52, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Some of what you have edited thus far is...somewhat odd. For one, you erased the "Fixed 3d|3D" pipe, so now it just says "Fixed 3d", which looks bad. Second, on the Ocarina Songs, you decapitalized all the first letter after the &mdash-es. They need to be caps. That's what I found so far by skimming your edits. Other parts you changed look good so far. -- RattleMan 16:16, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

"3D" is unnecessary, as it is too vague compared to "Fixed 3d", which gives the reader a better vision of the game's appearance. Also, the "caps lock on the first letters" is not true standard English, but your point will not be ignored, as it does make some sense. Now on to the issue with references: if no references are added to the article, then it will not be able to achieve featured status. Looking at the article as a whole right now, I would add references for what is presumed in the game, like the fact that the beginning of the game could be located in the Lost Woods. There should also be a reference of the storyline, for readers (and whiny Wikipedians) not to assume that we have made it up. Believe me, I had a friend who went through the featured article process, and it was no walk in the park for her. You might want to check out Mariah Carey, where practically every line is being referenced. --Hollow Wilerding 17:28, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I have accomplished excessive editing and removed the "Trivia" section from the article, which is better suited for a fan site or something along the lines of that. I will be seeking references and hope to finish the article in time for a nomination in the near future. --Hollow Wilerding 17:53, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Good luck. I'll give the article a look-over and see if I can do anything with it. -- RattleMan 18:40, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone know where I can access images from the video game? I'm quite stumped with internet locations (regrettably). --Hollow Wilerding 14:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I have located a minimal number of images. --Hollow Wilerding 20:33, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

What images do you still need? I can try to get some. -- RattleMan 20:57, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

An image of Deku Link would be admirable — since the main character spends the beginning of the game in this form, I find it rather acceptable for its presence. If that can't be found on the internet, then perhaps an image of one of the side characters (Romani, Anju, Kafei, Gorman, etc.) or one of the landscape to exhibit Termina's soils and grounds. Then there's the greedy me who would prefer both. Those are just my suggestions, but I do think that they would add the most variety. --Hollow Wilerding 00:50, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Here's some images that I got, some of them have bad brightness, but whatever...:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5382/smaskusnap00901ru.jpg - Majora, Tatl and Tatl

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/589/smaskusnap00913yc.jpg - Deku Link with Tatl

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/73/smaskusnap00920cl.jpg - Deku Link in light

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6822/smaskusnap00938do.jpg - Deku Link on Deku Flower

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6215/smaskusnap00959vz.jpg - Deku Link Horror Reflection

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2228/smaskusnap00969xn.jpg - Deku Link 3rd Day Clocktower Battle

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6835/smaskusnap01018vk.jpg - Termina Field (botched sun for some reason)

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2585/smaskusnap00985sn.jpg - Deku Link in Tatl's Light

"Deku Link on Deku Flower" amuses me; do you have the copyright information, RattleMan? --Hollow Wilerding

I believe it's {{game-screenshot}}. -- RattleMan 00:00, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Good, good. Should I add it to any particular place in the article? --Hollow Wilerding 23:27, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

The copyright? When you upload the image to Wikipedia, you insert the "{{game-screenshot}}" in the upload summary. -- RattleMan 02:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I was not clear enough: where should I add the image to the article? --Hollow Wilerding 21:16, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Anywhere you want, I'm just supplying the images :) -- RattleMan 21:56, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

History has been made: the image has been added! What else should the article include? --Hollow Wilerding 02:49, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

The new image of Zora Link playing the guitar is preferrable — much thanks, RattleMan. Are there any other adjustments we should make to the article? I still recommend references; if we do not include any, then the article will be turned down in the blink of an eye at featured article nomination time. –Hollow Wilerding 19:42, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to submit this article to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates — although I am positive that it will not succeed in its first attempt, whenever one wants a review of the article that will be useful to enhancing it, that's the place to go. Not peer review. Peer review is useless, if you ask me. —Hollow Wilerding 13:30, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I've upgraded the article substantially, although I still do not feel as though it is prepared for featured article candidates, however, I am not hesitant on submitting it. Any ideas or input? —Hollow Wilerding 14:37, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

A useful peer review has resulted to the request I made at Wikipedia:Peer review. I am rather impressed, since this is rarely the case. The article has improved substantially with the comments made, and I'll be addressing a few more headers and knick-knacks before I submit Majora to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. —Hollow Wilerding 14:23, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

ChristianAnswers?

I have one question. What on Earth is the following phrase doing in a Legend of Zelda article?

David Cady of ChristianAnswers commented, "The game does have a darker feel than the original, though I believe that it has improved in its morals."

Yes, it is all good and well that it has a darker feel than the original but what on Earth does its morales have to do with gameplay? Couldn't a better quote be used?

Let's have his comment put into context shall we?

The game does have a darker feel than the original, though I believe that it has improved in its morals. There is magic used, but not magic by witches or sorcerers. It is only used to increase your sword attack or a new arrow attack. The violence is at a minimal; there is no blood. You just fight against creatures, like giant spiders, or fish; no human harm is done. This game does teach perseverance, hard work, and compassion.

Source: [1]

I think I'll go and replace that quote by David Cady with one that isn't about the Christian persepective on the game.

Wolf ODonnell 14:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

One source, regardless of what it is, is enough to verify whether a game is darker than its predecessor. If this comment is not included in the article, then objections will be raised come nomination time for featured article. Or do you believe that a better source could be located and featured in the article instead? —Hollow Wilerding 21:53, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

If you had looked at my change, you would have seen a source tagged onto it. Frankly, I don't think David Cady's quote is good, because the focus of the article was on its Christian-ness and not the game's darkness. In the meantime, I have in fact found a different one.

"In the first of our second sittings with important titles of recent years, we look at the oddest, darkest and saddest of all Zelda games" - Edge Magazine, December 2004 issue, page 121.

How's about we use that one instead? And frankly, do we really need the quote, as long as we put the reference down as I had done in my change to the article?

Wolf ODonnell 22:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

It would be preferrable to place the quote in the Notes section; when I nominate the article for featured status, I really don't want people complaining. It must be placed where it belongs, and in this case, the "Notes" is where the quote belongs. A very good quote too, I must admit! —Hollow Wilerding 14:44, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

The comment made by the ChristianAnswers user has been removed. I will not restore it. —Hollow Wilerding 01:53, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured articles

The article has improved substantially—perhaps even considerably or remarkably—since the nomination process begun. Please vote at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. Thank you! —Hollow Wilerding 00:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Here is a better version of Image:Tatl_and_Tael.jpg. I'm putting this here instead of uploading it myself because the current one seems to be squished in order for it to be almost square-like (so it would look better on the article), and you can do what you want with it, then fix it. -- RattleMan 01:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Corrected. Thanks! :D —Hollow Wilerding 02:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Any time! -- RattleMan 02:50, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe erasing and replacing the review with a different word usage is anymore rewarding

Care to explain? I added "in its review" because it seemed to add more variation to the prose, nothing else. - Fredrik | tc 22:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

No, I was emphasizing the "erasing", but I suppose I failed; this is the internet after all. Are you going to address your vote at the nomination process? Sorry if I sound pushy. —Hollow Wilerding 22:56, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

No, I intend to do a few more changes first. Fredrik | tc 22:57, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Two questions:

1. What are those changes?
2. I've noticed that whenever you sign your posts, your talk page and contributions appear. How is it that one can do this?

—Hollow Wilerding 23:02, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

1. Essentially, work on the gameplay section. I think the layout can be improved, some details should be removed, and a few bits of information are missing. I'd also like to get some better screenshots.
2. Go to preferences, check "raw signature" and set "Nickname" to whatever you like. Fredrik | tc 23:14, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Which screenshots do you believe should be removed? —Hollow Wilerding 23:18, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, the biggest problem is that most screenshots are from cutscenes. I would at least like to replace some of them with equivalents that show some dialogue, but also add more action shots. Also, the aesthetics could be improved (the Goron shot is not particularly pretty) and some of them have visible emulation artifacts. Fredrik | tc 14:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

The Goron screenshot is supposed to demonstrate the landscape of Termina. Essential images include the Skull Kid, Moon, and Tatl and Tael. —Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 17:39, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree on all points, but it's possible to get better images. Fredrik | tc 22:49, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Spoiler tags

We don't need the spoiler tags, because nothing is being spoilt. All the information given here is also in the manual, except possibly some details of the intro that we'd probably be better off removing. Fredrik | tc 22:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. If we are going to be narrating the opening scenes of the video game, the spoiler tags are required. Why else would the tags have been created? —Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 23:40, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I've replaced the structure of the article in its previous form; the newer edition was not the apple of my eye and turned me away. —Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 23:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

They were created for endings, solutions to puzzles, and plot twists. Fredrik | tc 23:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Declining

Declining!

I had a reason for all the minor changes, such as moving the mention of "fixed 3D" to the section on technical development since it has nothing to do with gameplay (it is in fact directly related to the extra 4 MB of memory), removing speculation ("presumably the Lost Woods"), removing errors (Majora's Mask has indeed been cited as one of the greatest games of all time) -- and others which you just reverted without comment seemingly because you disagreed about the structure of the article, which isn't a very productive way to edit.

I also feel that my general changes to structure, layout and style improve the article -- eg "Graphical similarity to Ocarina of Time" vs just "characters", when that's what it's about, putting information on time travel in one place and transformations in one other place, instead of repeating the same information three times in different sections. I am not interested in waging a revert war; so for what it's worth, I'll rather let my FAC objection stand than continue with this. Fredrik | tc 23:57, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I have not removed your edits but merely attempted to restructure them. What do you think as it currently stands? —Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 00:03, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

The inaccuracies I removed have been re-added (and you have introduced a few new ones, for example, claiming that the article Termina is about the game's gameplay). Fredrik | tc 00:08, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

No, Termina is where the game is played. I find it acceptable enough to add it under this header despite that it is not directly related. —Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 00:25, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Featured status

The article is now a featured article! Thank you to everybody who contributed, and I'd like to announce that my next project is to upgrade The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time to featured status! :) —Hollow Wilerding . . . (talk) 01:14, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Resubmitted to FAC

It's been done. Hopefully this time it will pass despite previous allegations of fraud. - Cuivienen 20:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Inline citation

I just converted the notes section to the new inline citation format that was created. This format will make things a bit easier to manage when we do inline citations. During the conversion, I discovered that the ref to the following source was broken. I commented it out in the article, but i also brought it here. Does anyone know what this source was used for origianlly in the note section.

Miyamoto, Shigeru. N-Sider. The Making of the Game: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. Retrieved December 11, 2005.

--ZeWrestler ^Talk 06:38, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

The Woods

I'm sure that the woods that Link is in when searching for his friend is in Hyrule because this is before he steps on the portal that leads to Termina. Triforce of Power 15:00, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

True, it's definitely not Termina. However, Link is searching for Navi - it is possible that he wandered past the boundaries of Hyrule in his search. There's no way to know for sure. I'm reverting since this is speculation. Thanks for the copyedit changes, by the way, I've been trying to get help with that. --Pagrashtak 02:02, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I reverted a few things that I'm explaining here just to be clear: the Foo, then bar. construction is legitimate. If you add a conjunction, the comma cannot stay. (Foo and bar. not Foo, and bar.) The other revert is "Story and gameplay details.... show that the opening story ... as well as the use of masks ... are already in place". Story and use of masks take a plural verb here. --Pagrashtak 02:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I think that Nintendo has claimed that it was a section of the Lost Woods that were never visited in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

--Radaar 21:58, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Edits by anonymous contributer

I edited the article and made a few changes:

• The spoiler tag was in the wrong section; half of the plot was placed outside of the {{spoilers}}.
  • This is intentional, and was implemented to address a concern on the FAC submission. The first part of the plot is not really a spoiler, it was even known before the game's release.
• The "References" header was unusually farther down the page than other headers.
• One of the images clashed with the header change.
• Rewrote a poorly-written sentence (the last one) next to the image of the fish playing the guitar.
  • Your rewrite replaced "he is much taller than adult Link" with the awkward (and somewhat incorrect) "his size is much taller than that of adult Link's" and introduced a punctuation error. If you feel the sentence is poorly worded, feel free to discuss it here.

64.231.160.28 20:53, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm reverting most of your changes, see my reasons above. --Pagrashtak 22:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with placing the spoilers tag in the middle of the section because the first part is still a spoiler: the antagonist of Link is introduced; the Ocarina of Time and Epona are stolen; Link is transformed into a Deku Scrub. I find these to be spoilers, especially the latter two. You are right pointing out that the sentence in the next section if incorrect; I am going to rewrite it once more. I also noticed that you furthered the "References" header down the article again; isn't this incorrect in correspondence to the rest of the article and Wikipedia articles as a whole? 64.231.163.117 00:05, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I placed the spoilers tag at the top of the section in which it appears once again for the reasons noted above. Some other edits include switching the side of the article the image of the moon appears on due to writing contrasts (this will not appear on everybody's computer, but I have made this edit for the sake of people with the same computer as mine); I rewrote the "height" sentence once again, and added some wikilinks which were missing. 64.231.163.117 00:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm at a loss. You've now replaced "is much taller than Adult Link" with "is much taller compared to the height of Adult Link", which is the same problem as before - why do you insist on adding unecessary words? What else would one compare in that situation? As for moving references down, it's easy to overlook something minor like that when performing a partial revert; it wasn't intentional. The majority of the changes you are making are undoing the work agreed upon in the FAC submission. I request that you discuss proposed changes here and obtain a consensus before proceeding, as there were no objections to the changes you are undoing at the FAC submission.

Long story short, I suspect you are Hollow Wilerding, evading a block, and have submitted a CheckUser request. --Pagrashtak 02:07, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I've submitted my opposition to the FAC of this article. I don't know who Hollow Wilerding is or what a CheckUser request is. 64.231.163.117 02:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

By the way, "compare", from an English Oxford dictionary states:

• To consider or describe as similar, equal, or analogous; liken.
• To examine in order to note the similarities or differences of.

One does not need to compare more than one object in order to make a point. 64.231.163.117 02:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I know what compare means, although I think you mean "Oxford English Dictionary". I don't know what the definition has to do with anything. My point is that you're complicating the sentence without gain. Nothing is wrong with the phrase "is taller than". You don't have to say "compared to the height of", that's understood — taller is a comparison of height. It's like saying "A kilometer is longer than the length of a meter." instead of "A kilometer is longer than a meter". It's just silly. --Pagrashtak 03:55, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I rewrote the sentence, hopefully it will be agreeable to us both. --Pagrashtak 04:11, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

It's better than before, but not perfect. I won't argue though. Could you please place the moon image on the right side of the screen? On my computer, and on other various formats, the writing is literally moving into the image, but if you place it on the right side, no interference occurs. Could you please place it on the right? I still disagree with the spoilers tag, but I'll leave it for now. 64.231.163.10 20:42, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll leave it, I didn't know it caused a problem for you. Which text is in the picture, and what operating system and browser are you using? --Pagrashtak 00:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

The last sentence of the Storyline section was running into the image. Windows XP is the operating system that I access, however, I am not aware of the browser as this is a public computer. 64.231.163.10 00:51, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

That gives it about a 99% chance of being IE. That should be a common combo, anyone else experiencing a problem like this? --Pagrashtak 01:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I centred the reviews in the review template as it emphasizes the writing. I don't mind if one reverts these edits as it was based on personal taste. 64.231.68.22 02:20, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I went through the history and found a few wikilinks that had been removed and replaced them in the article. I think I'm finished editing this article, and may register an account on Wikipedia next month if I find the time to. Ciao! 64.231.168.58 21:13, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Alcohol reference

Majora's Mask has an alcohol reference. In the milk bar there is a man named Gorman drinking milk at the counter, and he's acting like he's drunk.