I don't enjoy arbitration cases, let alone the process of filing one - I'll make this short and to the point. Jytdog has acted in a grossly inappropriate manner, as described at Wikipedia talk:Harassment#Off-wiki contact, and I believe this falls short of our harassment policy. I don't enjoy blocking editors, and having Jytdog unable to edit the project will be a loss, but something needs to be done, as our unwillingness or weak actions give the message that we don't care, and that behaviour like this is acceptable.

I blocked Jytdog indefinitely per their previous blocks. This block was reduced to 24 hours by BD2412, citing a first offence. I don't think this is the case because of the previous Oversight and blocks reserved to ArbCom which involved private information. As this case involves information which administrators who are not functionaries cannot access, it is explicitly within ArbCom's remit.

(I don't think that BD2412 did anything against policy here, but as they reduced the initial block, I'm adding them as a party and ArbCom can keep or remove them.)

I ask ArbCom to review Jytdog's history with off-wiki issues and to take any action as they deem necessary.

Thank you for your time - TNT ^💖 22:09, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@EdChem: Thank you for the direct questions, I am of course happy to clarify:

Why a block justified more than four hours after Jytdog had stated twice that he would not make such a call again?

I have no faith in empty promises - we've heard "I won't do it again, honest!" more than once. I dislike speaking of a colleague in such a way, but I still genuinely believe actions such as these will be repeated in the future.

What part of the harassment policy was clearly violated?

In letter, I'm relying heavily on the section 'Off-wiki harassment', in spirit it's fairly clear we shouldn't find a work phone number of another editor and ring them. We shouldn't need a section to our harassment policy which states that, but by golly it looks like it's going to have to be added.

On what basis was an indefinite block justified by the discussion you cited?

Tony actually puts it as well as I could - third offence, previous two being indefs. I'm a big supporter of the whole "indef isn't infinite", to me it means blocked until a successful unblock, nothing more.

What the block was supposed to prevent and how, given it did not limit Jytdog's ability to make phone calls and he had already undertaken not to repeat his action?

A good question, and I made it very clear I did not want my block to be perceived as WP:PUNITIVE - obviously I don't have the ability to prevent anyone from making phone calls, but I do have the button to stop edits to Wikipedia. Does this stop off-wiki harassment? No, it does not. It does send a clear message, it is a sanction and is explicitly mentioned as a remedy in the harassment policy ("As is the case with on-wiki harassment, off-wiki harassment can be grounds for blocking, and in extreme cases, banning. Off-wiki privacy violations shall be dealt with particularly severely."

I hope these go some way to clarifying why I took the actions I did. - TNT ^💖 08:11, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As a general clarification, it strikes me as rather odd there is some question as to these actions being acceptable - they're not, and this case wasn't created to discuss that. If we as a community feel it's A-OK to phone another editor using a phone number we found, without permission, then I'm not just disappointed but downright disturbed. The reason behind my rename and other changes was due to getting harassment over the phone - this upset me greatly and still affects me. I don't wish that on anyone, "good faith" or not. - TNT ^💖 08:11, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Alex Shih: I was waiting for your comment, and whilst I respect your opinion on the matter, I'm disappointed you need to air your apparent dislike of me here of all places. Regardless, I will respond:

Did There'sNoTime block Jytdog indefinitely mostly based on their oversight block in June 2016 that was handled by ArbCom, of which the information There'sNoTime have no access to?

Other than being previously aware of the actions which caused that block, I can also view the revisions Jytdog has added which have been suppressed. I have access to enough information to make an informed decision. I do not have access to the full picture, obviously, but that's part of the reason we're here.

Do we block editors based on assumptions now?

No - I'm not sure what you do Alex, but I do not block editors based solely on assumptions.

To me this is close to being an act of intimidation which is equally a problematic behaviour.

I couldn't be intimidating if I tried Alex, and is definitely not the result I want from any actions I take here. I did what I did with the mindset of protecting the Wikipedia community - as pointed out, a block is physically fairly useless in preventing off-wiki harassment (whilst still having merits of a sort), yet it's listed explicitly as a remedy.

On a personal note Alex, if you have a problem with my conduct as an administrator generally, I'd really welcome a frank discussion on my talk page (or by email if you'd prefer) - these pot-shots are tiring - TNT ^💖 08:25, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Jytdog

Context: The person whom I telephoned is a WP:SPA who has edited one article, Specific carbohydrate diet (SCD). Their first edit rewrote the page into an advertisement for the diet complete with the closing selling statement. The edit note refers to a specific conference. Their edit was reverted by me and then by another person. I gave them the WPMED welcome. The editor opened a discussion at my talk page, which you can see here. I assumed that what they wrote in that edit note was true -- that they are a "doctor of pharmacy" and understand the medical literature. As the discussion at my talk page was bizarre, I went and looked at the conference page that the user pointed to, and indeed an organization advocating for SCD was listed there as an exhibitor, with a phone and address. After a few days the person copied the discussion from my talk page to the article talk page, and sought a 3O. I removed that pasted content and left a link to the discussion at my talk page, and warned the person not to do that in the future. A few days later yet -- yesterday -- they melted down and ended up edit warring to restore the pasted discussion and requesting more 3O, as you can see in the history of the article talk page and their contribs. I filed an EWN case which is here, but it was also clear that the user was floundering, and I thought actually talking could help.

I first asked if they wanted to talk at their talk page, but given the difficulties they were having with the platform itself and the fact that they have never edited their own talk page, I was not confident they would even know to respond. I recalled the number from the exhibition booth, and went ahead and just called them. Please bear in mind, that this is a phone number that was posted for the advocacy organization for the diet, and this person had posted an advertisement for the diet in WP. I expected that they would want to talk, as odd as that might sound to folks here.

I introduced myself, and asked if the person wanted to talk about what was going on. The person said "yes". I would have ended the call, had they said "no". In any case, after they said yes, the conversation very quickly went south - what happened on the phone was pretty much a duplicate of what you see on my talk page. I allowed myself to get frustrated and abruptly ended the call. It is entirely my fault, that I allowed myself to do that.

After the call, I removed the request to talk, as it was now pointless.

So:

I called to try to help them -- that was truly my intention. I talk advocates/conflicted people off the ledge, a lot, on WP. Sometimes it goes badly. Often it goes well.
I should have waited to see if they accepted the invitation at their talk page, instead of just calling them.
I should not have taken the multiple risks of calling them, and will not use contact information someone does not themselves post on WP, ever again.

--Jytdog (talk) 02:34, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by BD2412

The offense cited for this block was that Jytdog made a single phone call to a publicly advertised phone number of a new editor who was struggling with Wikipedia's policies, but who had provided no other means to contact them. It appears that Jytdog politely offered advice or assistance to put that editor on the right track. There was no repetition of this incident, no outing of the other editor's private information. Our own policy on harassment defines harassment (correctly) as "threats, intimidation, repeated annoying and unwanted contact or attention, and repeated personal attacks" (emphasis added). Notably, off-wiki communication is not directly addressed in the policy; it only remarks upon off-wiki harassment, which is not separately defined, so must be presumed to mean the same as on-wiki harassment. Since no contact was repeated, and no threats are alleged, the assertion appears to be that telephone contact is inherently intimidating, but we have no policy saying that. If that is going to be our policy, then we should say so, and should address violations prospectively, rather than retroactively defining the term to mean that.

I would also note that our policy states that "[i]ncidents of wikihounding generally receive a warning. If wikihounding persists after a warning, escalating blocks are often used, beginning with 24 hours". Although it has been noted in various discussions that Jytdog has been blocked in the past for abrasive interactions, the interaction at issue in this discussion is completely different from anything that has previously been addressed, and should stand on its own. That being the case, the 24-hour block that resulted from my reduction of the initial indefinite block should be considered to resolve the issue. Trout-slaps all around, and let's not do it again.

Full disclosure: I did not consult this policy before reducing the block to that amount, but it happens to coincide, which is fine with me. I stand by the outcome. bd2412 T 23:29, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ivanvector

This is certainly within the Committee's jurisdiction as it involves off-wiki communication which has been alleged to be unwelcome by the recipient (whether or not that constitutes harassment is being argued on-wiki), as well as previous private communication. I'll write more later but noting I agree with TNT's view that BD2412 was not wheel-warring. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 22:22, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think that my close of this discussion from just a few months ago will be relevant if this is accepted as a full case. I noted in closing that discussion that Jytdog was continuing to wear the community's patience despite having been warned many times and having promised many times to do better. I have little opinion on that matter myself but the sentiment was evident in that discussion, and it is apparent that the sentiment has been building for some years. See, for example, this ANI discussion from March 2015 about Jytdog's incivility and alleged harassment, in which it was also recognized that his behaviour was inappropriate, he was warned and he promised to reform. The move to telephoning editors without invitation to discuss Wikipedia disputes is an alarming trend in the opposite direction, in my view, even if he believes his intentions to be good. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 23:33, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TonyBallioni

Given the subject matter and previous blocks, I think the committee should accept this as a private case. I’ll also state that I think both administrators acted in good faith and within policy. TonyBallioni (talk) 22:35, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

KrakatoaKatie, the relevant motion is here that lifted the topic ban. It did include a strong warning on PII, however. That isn't directly relevant here, but it is related in my opinion. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:45, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

EdChem: taking the liberty of speaking for There'sNoTime here, but I think the reason for an indef was that this was the third time something like this has happened (see Thryduulf’s diplomatically worded statement). Someone who has had two oversight blocks and was given a warning by ArbCom that if they came near it again they could be site banned should at least have had the common sense not to call a COI editor IRL. TNT’s actions here were reasonable in that context and his actions as well as BD’s in reducing the block should not be a focus of this case if it’s accepted: both of them were acting on policy as they understood it, and TNT’s reading of the policy certainly has consensus even if the words aren’t spelled out in part because until now we thought it was obvious.

That being said, I also strongly believe that people who have given a lot to this project should be allowed to explain themselves, which is why I support Kelapstick’s unblock and I think the committee should do something here, even if it’s an abreviated private case. Let people be heard and tell their side of it, then come to a conclusion on how to respond. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:44, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tryptofish

The Committee needs to consider carefully how much of this should be dealt with on-site, and how much handled privately. But I think that the reduction of the block to 24 hours was entirely appropriate, and the original indefinite block may require some scrutiny. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:42, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mr Ernie

Restore the indef and upgrade to a full arbcom ban. This is one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen on Wikipedia. Calling an editor whose number you snooped from a couple disclosures? Incredibly shocking and even more so that Jytdog thought it would be ok. This represents a fundamental incompatibility with what’s acceptable. I have sympathies per the long history of improvements to the project, but it is clear to me that Jytdog has such a deep seated COI about COI or MEDRS issues that they aren’t able to see when they’ve crossed a line. Mr Ernie (talk) 22:54, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by User:Doc James

In my opinion it would depend on the content of that conversation. I have had an editor with whom I was in a dispute call me. It was not a big deal. Should we have a policy against such content, I think so as that form of contact can easily go sideways and does not easily leave a paper trail. Jyt appears to understand the gravity of his mistake. I am fairly certain he will not repeat it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:26, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Iridescent

Per my comments on Wikipedia talk:Harassment#Off-wiki contact and Jytdog's talk page, I think this behavior is grossly unethical and totally unacceptable; however, I do feel that Jytdog genuinely believed they were being helpful and didn't realise just how inappropriate this kind of thing is. As User:Only in death points out at the WT:HA thread, we don't actually have a written policy forbidding this; as per my comments there I personally feel that the reason we have no written policy is because when the policies were being drafted, nobody ever thought it necessary to formalize something so glaringly obvious, but nonetheless there's a just-about-plausible "since it wasn't expressly forbidden I thought it was OK" argument. (To prevent any future incidents like this, we should put it in writing that this isn't appropriate; whether Arbcom wants to toss the call back to the community, invoke the To resolve matters unsuitable for public discussion clause of WP:ARBPOL and write policy directly, or punt the decision upstairs to Trust and Safety, is up to you.) I'd be inclined to agree with Doc James above that this incident isn't going to be repeated, since Jytdog is surely aware that there won't be a third chance. ‑ Iridescent 00:05, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(adding) Unless there's something in suppressed contributions or off-wiki evidence to justify it, I don't see the need for a case here. This is the kind of situation for which "deal by motion" is eminently suitable; given that I don't think anyone is going to question the legitimacy of the actions of There'sNoTime or BD2412 (regardless of whether they agree with them or not), ultimately there are only two people and a single piece of evidence involved. Consequently, all a full case will consist of is a long parade of whoever happens to turn up, each offering their own opinion on whether Jytdog should be blocked or not, and you already have the evidence to make that call on your own. ‑ Iridescent 01:29, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Thryduulf

I am aware of some, but not all, of the non-public context that led to Jytdog's previous blocks. In the light of that context, the comments by Ivanvector giving details of more history that I was not aware of, and the comments from other editors about this sort of behaviour in general at Wikipedia talk:Harassment#Off-wiki contact I believe Jytog has already exceeded the number of chances an editor can reasonably be given.

Harassment and/or behaviour that is or is reasonably and likely to be interpreted as harassing by the recipient cannot be excused. None of the quality or volume of your edits or the length of your tenure are relevant. Thryduulf (talk) 00:22, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I do feel it important to say that I think BD242 was acting in good faith and was not wheel warring. However when an editor's block log indicates previous blocks based on non-public information, I would very strongly encourage every admin to check with those who have access to that information before removing or reducing a block, even if the most recent block was not related to non-public information (except where it is unquestionably unrelated). This is something arbcom should consider adopting as a principle or stronger. Thryduulf (talk) 00:29, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sir Joseph

This behavior is not excusable at all and should not be tolerated, especially by a person with a history of harassment. Just think of the chilling effect this could have. Am I now to expect a call or perhaps a visit at work to discuss my Wiki posts? I can't imagine how someone can think contacting a stranger on the internet via phone is acceptable. We need a strong message and harassment by Jytdog has gone on long enough. I also think the block should not have been reduced pending a discussion. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 00:32, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JzG

Context: I've been doxxed by an article subject, had them phone my house in the small hours, I've had to get a court order to unmask an anonymous harasser. I'm not a fan of harassment. I've also had unsolicited calls from people trying to help (the editor of a magazine, for example, who knew one person who was creating grief). I appreciated that. There is a difference between reaching out in person and harassment.

I have spoken to Jytdog on the phone before, at his request, I do not think he is an aggressive person (very mellow, in fact, despite a distinctly heated exchange between us on-wiki) and I am inclined to assume good faith here: I think Jytdog was almost certainly trying to be helpful in the absence of any other way to contact the user. That said, it was a terrible idea. All admin actions here are 100% understandable and in good faith.

Unfortunately we're likely to see a pile on here from people who do not appreciate Jytdog's robust editing of articles related to antivaccinationism, quackery and undisclosed paid editing. You make a lot of enemies by opposing vested interests. Guy (Help!) 00:35, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 28bytes

I strongly agree with what BD2412 says above. I would add that both BD2412 and There'sNoTime made reasonable admin actions in good faith and I would not want to see either of them sanctioned or warned for their actions.

I do not think there's anything ArbCom needs to do here. For the sake of clarity the harassment policy should probably be updated to include a warning about unsolicited telephone contact. In almost any other context, calling someone on the phone to more efficiently sort out things when written messages aren't working well is a perfectly reasonable thing to do; on Wikipedia, for a variety of reasons, it is very much not the done thing, so this would be helpful information for new editors especially. Jytdog, of course, is not a new editor, but as he has promised not to do that again I don't see much benefit in having a case about his actions. 28bytes (talk) 01:05, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Davey2010

This was a terrible idea and certainly was poor judgement on Jytdogs part .... that being said it's certainly plausible that they simply tried to help the editor the best they could,

I feel his actions like I said above were done with good intentions and there was no harassment here, As noted above we don't actually have any sort of policy forbidding this so maybe one should be created,

Should the case be accepted (publicly or privately) ? - Personally I'd say no, Clearly it was done in good faith but I think we can all agree no thought was put in to it. –Davey2010^Talk 01:09, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree with BD changing the block from indef to 24hrs - Again both sides acted in good faith but personally I feel indef is OTT but ofcourse we all judge things differently. –Davey2010^Talk 01:11, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by RexxS

I've worked with Jytdog on numerous articles to help him clean up inappropriate contributions, usually breaches of MEDRS, so I do appreciate the work he does. On the other hand, I've been in direct and strong conflict with him in a case where I felt he was damaging a wiki-colleague (a Wikimedian-in-Residence), over allegations of paid editing that I felt missed the mark. During that confrontation, Jytdog suggested in email that he'd like to talk to me, but we never quite managed to fix up a Skype call before it all petered out.

I'm therefore aware of the store that Jytdog puts in talking though issues – and he's quite right that in real life, that's how problems and misunderstandings are best resolved, i.e. in real-time by two-way dialogue. So I'm not at all surprised that he would see the chance to talk as an "obvious" helpful step, and I have no problem assuming good faith on that.

What went wrong, IMHO, in this case is that Jytdog had been looking at the other editor's edits because of the problem of their posting possibly spam or promotional external links. Examining the content of the external sites linked, in itself, is perfectly normal (and actually vital) if you're trying to understand the nature of that sort of problem. It seems that one of the possibly promotional links contained a clear phone number which Jytdog saw. Where it went wrong was that he seems to get too involved in an issue and that clouds his judgement. He should have realised that using that phone number to make contact had the potential to blow up in his face. Most uninvolved observers would form that conclusion, I believe.

Having said all that, I sincerely believe that Jytdog has now come to his senses and understands how bad an idea that phone call was. I only hope he'll give us some reassurance that he now understands how he sometimes allows himself to be so involved that he can follow a bad idea like that, and that he'll be particularly careful to recognise how it can happen, and will take measures to reduce the chance of anything like it ever happening again. Heck, I'll even offer to take a Skype call from him myself if he wants another opinion when he has another idea like this last one. --RexxS (talk) 01:16, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by olive

Simply put: I don't support an indef. I would suggest a line has been crossed and I would assume Jytdog realizes he went too far. Above all our first consideration must be to treat other editors with respect and patience as if we want them to stay around. We are editors but we are also the ones who help train new editors - support them. It takes time and may be frustrating but that's part of the job in my opinion. ~~And while the end never justifies the means, as I said, a sanction is probably not necessary this time~~. Littleolive oil (talk) 02:53, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Kelapstick

I’ve unblocked Jytdog, as noted on his talk page. Blocks are preventative and the likelihood of reoccurance in the next day is nil. Now he can participate correctly.

Related to this request. Jytdog, while a villagant combatant of COI, has been down this road before (oversight blocks are nothing to take lightly), and so far as I know, the topic ban mentioned by KK hasn’t been lifted. Simply put, he should know better.

Thanks to those pointing out the lifting of the topic ban. The fact that a ban is lifted does not mean that a user should not tread lightly in formerly problem areas. Even if there are no active sanctions. —kelapstick^(bainuu) 03:21, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Montanabw

While I can appreciate that Jytdog cares about the issues where he edits, and on at least one issue we agree, I think his behavior in this instance, however provoked he thinks it may have been, went over the top. If we don't have a policy that "off-wiki communication which has been alleged to be unwelcome by the recipient" is unethical, then it's high time we get one.

Jytdog has exhibited this pattern for years of being unable to cool down when he is challenged, and he can't hide behind MEDRS as an excuse to be a vigilante. We all get tired of the various tendentious editors we come across from time to time, but that's what article protection is for. That's what ANI is for. That's what AIV is for. That's what SPI is for. What happens on wiki stays on wiki unless BOTH sides agree otherwise.

To be clear: If someone enables email, they agree to be contacted via email. But unless we create a little checkbox that says "here is my phone number and I consent to be contacted via telephone," then HELL NO, we don't breach the anonymity of Wikipedia. No one should just be called up out of the blue unless they have previously agreed to such contact via an agreed-upon method.

A gray area is if someone does post their name or phone number on their userpage or something. But personally, I still think it is wise to never initiate contact with another editor that I know only via WP other than with the "email this user" feature.

I mean, in some jurisdictions, including where I live, unwelcome contact triggers the warning provision of the stalking statutes. (and the intent of the initiator is irrelevant.) If I tell person X, "do not contact me again" and they contact me again, it doesn't matter a flying f--- what they say, it's my privacy that is to be respected. Their behavior is enough for me to to file a stalking complaint in my jurisdiction.

All that said, maybe Jytdog meant no harm, but he's got to learn how to dial it back. I am not certain what the appropriate sanctions on Jytdog should be at this point, as I have not reviewed the situation fully, nor at the moment do I have time to do so. BUT, this is classic Jytdog: disagree with him and if you don't completely roll over and play dead, he just keeps upping the ante until he goes nuclear.

As far as whether Jytdog needs to be indeffed, or given a 12-month ban, or just have an assigned nanny to remind him that it's sunset and sing kumbayah, something has to be done to get it through his head that no matter how passionate he feels, he has to quit being such a bully. His block record speaks for itself. He goes in cycles and it's time to break this infinite loop. I encourage ArbCom to take this case and consider it within the broader context of where to draw a firm line on off-wiki stalking. Montanabw^(talk) 04:12, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Johnuniq

Some good points have been made and I particularly endorse Montanabw's statement just above. However, I cannot see what use a case would be. Once started, a case would grind on for months and would reach the obvious conclusion which we know already—just read Montanabw's statement. My reading of WP:Harassment is that the policy is silent about what Jytdog did (although I agree that do not phone people is in the bleeding-obvious category). I do not see how Arbcom could justify a sanction because arbitration has to be formal and the policy only prohibits certain on-wiki behaviors. The "repeated annoying and unwanted contacts" in the nutshell refers to repeatedly posting on an opponent's talk, or pinging them, etc. WP:OWH would not justify an Arbcom sanction.

A proposal to expand the policy to cover the issue under question is at WT:Harassment#Suggested revision. Johnuniq (talk) 04:38, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by EdChem

Maybe there are things that I am missing, but the reaction that Jytdog has received seems to me to be over the top and statements appear based on large assumptions. For example:

Montanabw states that If we don't have a policy that "off-wiki communication which has been alleged to be unwelcome by the recipient" is unethical, then it's high time we get one. That's reasonable, as far as it goes, but where is the evidence here that the call was unwelcome to Beall4? Jytdog has said, repeatedly, that his first act on the phone call was to identify himself and ask to discuss the situation, and that he received a response of "yes". That doesn't suggest the call was unwelcome, rejected, or found to be harrassing / intimidating, and those statements are (as far as I am aware) undisputed. Now, the call became problematic / unproductive and heated and, it appears, Jytdog hung up, but that is not proof that it was experienced by Beall4 as harassment.
Others have made similar statements, such as Ivanvector: ... off-wiki communication which has been alleged to be unwelcome by the recipient (whether or not that constitutes harassment is being argued on-wiki). Contrast also Mr Ernie's declaration that This is one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever seen on Wikipedia or Iridescent's statement that I think this behavior is grossly unethical and totally unacceptable with Doc James' rather more nuanced (and realistic) In my opinion it would depend on the content of that conversation. Are the former comments really reasonable if the call was agreed to by Beall4 at the start and included frustration and disagreement but no threats or harassment?
Ivanvector's statement also cites a previous ANI case to support the implicit assertion that the call constituted harassment even if Jytdog was trying to be helpful: See, for example, this ANI discussion from March 2015 about Jytdog's incivility and alleged harassment, in which it was also recognized that his behaviour was inappropriate, he was warned and he promised to reform. The move to telephoning editors without invitation to discuss Wikipedia disputes is an alarming trend in the opposite direction, in my view, even if he believes his intentions to be good
In short, I suspect that Jytdog's reputation with some editors (as JzG noted) and the previous ban (which I do not know recall details of, but which I presume was serious) are colouring views of the present event. It is surprising how few comments even note that hearing from Beall4 would be helpful (and thanks to Cameron11598 for contacting Beall4 and adding them as a party).
Jytdog's view that a call might be acceptable can be seen in Beall4's editing. The report to the edit warring noticeboard shows Beall4 re-adding content to talk:specific carbohydrate diet six times on 26 November. Five of those re-additions (01:56, 02:19, 16:55, 21:14 and 21:42), include the sentence I would like to communicate with you directly regarding reverting the update to the SCD from Beall4 to Jytdog. At the end of this last edit, Beall4 declared I can see that it is not possible to have an academic discussion in this venue, as one editor can simply delete or re-arrange the comments of another, as my response has been deleted 3 x by jytdog and then removed a comment from Jytdog about talking once MEDRS-compliant sources were suggested. Mathglot then added a post that explained, inter alia, that Talk pages are about discussing how to improve the article. Academic discussions that don't forward this goal are off-topic. In this context, is Jytdog's idea for changing the venue to a verbal conversation so unreasonable?
I will not defend Jytdog's decision to call without waiting for a response to the user talk page message that he left, as it was (at best, in my opinion), foolish. I do not see any evidence, however, that makes offering the suggestion unacceptable or inappropriate. Perhaps he might not have identified where he got the phone number, but that is a minor detail.
I do not see the justification for jumping to an indefinite block by There'sNoTime as a "Clear violation of our harassment policy - see Wikipedia talk:Harassment#Off-wiki contact". As Tryptofish noted, the block was made more than four hours after Jytdog had said I am hearing what people are saying. I should not have taken the risk and will not do so again. Jytdog had also already said Calling the person was a high risk thing to do for sure. If it would have gone well -- if the person had come away understanding how we use MEDRS and what they were doing wrong -- it would have been good for everybody. However I should have a) had my act way more together in the call instead of getting upset by the person's combativeness and b) beforehand, considered the risk that (i) it would go south (ii) it would be badly received by the person afterwards if it went south; (iii) considered how it could be framed here. Considering those things now, I would not have done it and I will not be be trying that again. Just what was it that was being prevent by this block? I note the context of Drmies preceding comment that Even if you're trying to be helpful this is not cool, a comment followed by discussion of threats and genuine harassment and feeling fearful. These are reasons why Jytdog calling without having permission was unwise and potentially frightening, but it must be remembered that there is no evidence (as far as I am aware) of Jytdog having made threats or engaged in harassment. There'sNoTime, I think you need to explain:

Why a block justified more than four hours after Jytdog had stated twice that he would not make such a call again?
What part of the harassment policy was clearly violated?
On what basis was an indefinite block justified by the discussion you cited?
What the block was supposed to prevent and how, given it did not limit Jytdog's ability to make phone calls and he had already undertaken not to repeat his action?

ArbCom, if you are to take this on (either as a case or a motion), please look at what has been said with an eye to what is fact and what is assumption. I do think the initial block was questionable given that the evidence for harassment on which it was based appears to be all assumption, and as it prevented nothing (especially given Jytdog's prior statements on wiki). That Jytdog was stupid to call without waiting for permission is evident, but that does not make it harassment. Doc James and others have received such calls and found them unproblematic, others have found them disturbing and unwelcome, but I don't think that they become sanctionable unless they are truly harassment, threats, or other inappropriate behaviours. EdChem (talk) 06:24, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by WBG

Echo EdChem, in entirety who has superbly crafted the entire stuff and Guy's last line. And, whilst TNT certainly acted in good faith, IMO, that was a bad call.∯WBG^converse 06:59, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Alex Shih

The initial block needs to be scrutinised. Did There'sNoTime block Jytdog indefinitely mostly based on their oversight block in June 2016 that was handled by ArbCom, of which the information There'sNoTime have no access to? Do we block editors based on assumptions now? As Tryptofish and EdChem have pointed out, blocking Jytdog four hours after they have made the reflection on not to repeat the behaviour with the mere basis that "you don't believe them" needs to be better justified (paraphrased from User_talk:Jytdog#November_2018). What is the purpose of this block, "to send a message"? Excuse me, but the blocking tool should never be used for the purpose of one administrator sending a unilateral message without the explicit backing of a community consensus. To me this is close to being an act of intimidation which is equally a problematic behaviour. Communicate first before you act; ArbCom needs to comment on the policy aspect of this entire issue (not just the technical aspect of the block itself).

Once we have the block issue resolved, we can move on to the next issue, in which there is of course no excuse for Jytdog's recurring poor decisions and aggressive editing behaviours despite of years of promise "to do better" (they have improved in their approach, but the occasional relapse is deeply unhelpful). Jytdog's tireless works in combating COI and paid editing are under appreciated, especially in the face of many ArbCom members past and present that are far too disconnected from the community to realise the lasting damage paid editing has on our project; instead there seems to be a trend to claim moral high ground and inadvertently shelters (in the name of "protection") those whose only intention is to use Wikipedia as a platform for their promotion. Regardless, Jytdog need to know when to stop, and we cannot continue going in circles about this. Ask for help from administrators/functionaries whenever possible instead of being creative and come up with solutions that are often very inappropriate in the context of communication on Wikipedia. But this has been blown way out of proportion despite of the fact that talk page discussion was going in the right direction. A case is unnecessary, please handle this by motion. Alex Shih (talk) 08:05, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@There'sNoTime: Focus on the content please, there is no need to make anything personal. Labelling legitimate concerns as "pot-shots" is not okay, so please don't make another remark that could be incompatible with "standards of conduct and decorum" as expressed in WP:ARBPOL. If you are uncertain about the consequences in which of your administrative actions in this case will bring (your uncertainty was apparent in the immediate aftermath of the unblock discussion), is it unreasonable to ask you to ask first, which would be the same response you should be giving to Jytdog? Did you seek any input from oversight-l or other functionaries, or did you simply decide that you should be the one to make example out of Jytdog and send out a general message about your interpretation of Wikipedia:Harassment? I think this is a legitimate question to ask, but of course your opinion may differ. Alex Shih (talk) 08:43, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Smartse

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm in the camp of this being a bad idea but it was done with the intention of helping and not harassing the user. I've read through all of he harassment policy and there is definitely nothing to say that you shouldn't do this. I get that some people think it's blindly obvious that you shouldn't but we can't enforce non-existent policies. Given the admission by Jytdog that he realises now it was a bad idea and won't do it again, the block was unnecessary and I don't see what opening a case would achieve. SmartSE (talk) 08:13, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nick

I disagree entirely with Alex Shih, who is once again demonstrating his staggering incompetence. The initial block was 100% justifiable given the circumstances alone, never mind Jytdog's previous behaviour and the question of the topic ban potentially still being in force at the time the block was made. The community remains enormously fortunate Alex stepped away from ArbCom and isn't running this year, given how wrong he is yet again. I would strongly encourage the community to explicitly prohibit the type of contact Jytdog has made by expanding and modifying the relevant policies, so nobody can be under any illusion as to how the community views such behaviour, or that such behaviour is anything other than entirely inappropriate. If you want to telephone someone, you must wait for them to ask you and to offer their phone number themselves, freely, willingly and not under any sort of duress. Nick (talk) 09:03, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

I've added Beall4 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) as a party at the direction of the committee; per clerks-l. --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 05:08, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Bilby was mistakenly added as a party, I've removed them from the case request. --Cameron₁₁₅₉₈ ^(Talk) 05:08, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/0/0>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

Awaiting Jytdog's statement. I'd like to hear how his behavior here does not violate his topic ban prohibiting investigations against other editors, under which he was unblocked by a previous committee in 2016 [1]. If this topic ban is no longer in effect, I cannot find where it was rescinded, so please give the diff where that happened. Katie^talk 02:39, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@TonyBallioni: Thanks very much. Katie^talk 03:23, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The facts here are not under serious dispute, so I don't consider this ripe for a month-long case. As much as I know my colleagues dislike admonishments, I think passing one by motion fits perfectly here. It is important to send a clear message that this conduct was not okay and could/will lead to sanctions if repeated in the future. I do not have an appetite to take more substantive action when the person they called has not requested sanctions. We should hear directly from Beall4 before making any decision. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 04:36, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Was this unwise? Yes, and Jytdog has made it clear that he now regrets having done this, as well he should. Is off-Wiki contact a violation of policy? No, as several people have made clear. Is there evidence that it was done to harass? Again no unless it can be proven that there were threats or or obvious intimidation, and I don't see how either can be definitely shown to have taken place nor do I think it likely. Perhaps we do need to amend policy to prohibit phone calls but we don't have one, and the argument that it should be obvious is not one that holds water for me. Thus I see no grounds for a sanction. Should we pass a motion? I don't see what good it would do and I think the discussions here and those at Wikipedia talk:Harassment have already sent a message and Jytdog's statements show that he's heard it. I won't oppose one however, although I think it would be only symbolic. I'm holding off from voting at the moment, but barring something completely new I shall vote decline. Doug Weller talk 08:52, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 210: / Line 210: @@
 === Statement by Smartse ===
 [[The road to hell is paved with good intentions]]. I'm in the camp of this being a bad idea but it was done with the intention of ''helping'' and not ''harassing'' the user. I've read through all of he harassment policy and there is definitely nothing to say that you shouldn't do this. I get that some people think it's blindly obvious that you shouldn't but we can't enforce non-existent policies. Given the admission by Jytdog that he realises now it was a bad idea and won't do it again, the block was unnecessary and I don't see what opening a case would achieve. [[User:Smartse|SmartSE]] ([[User talk:Smartse|talk]]) 08:13, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
+=== Statement by Nick ===
+I disagree entirely with Alex Shih, who is once again demonstrating his staggering incompetence. The initial block was 100% justifiable given the circumstances alone, never mind Jytdog's previous behaviour and the question of the topic ban potentially still being in force at the time the block was made. The community remains enormously fortunate Alex stepped away from ArbCom and isn't running this year, given how wrong he is yet again. I would strongly encourage the community to explicitly prohibit the type of contact Jytdog has made by expanding and modifying the relevant policies, so nobody can be under any illusion as to how the community views such behaviour, or that such behaviour is anything other than entirely inappropriate. If you want to telephone someone, you must wait for them to ask you and to offer their phone number themselves, freely, willingly and not under any sort of duress. [[User:Nick|Nick]] ([[User talk:Nick|talk]]) 09:03, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 === Jytdog: Clerk notes ===