Talk:List of Scottish monarchs

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Or Stuart?

As this article is in specific reference to Scotland is it really necessary to include the English spelling of Stewart?

Stuart is the French spelling of the English, Stewart. Neither are the Scottish Gaelic spelling which is Stiubhart.
–Whaleyland 07:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

And what is the Scots spelling? --Xyzzyva 12:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Alpin and Dunkeld

The division between Alpin and Dunkeld are rather silly. These dynasties do not exist in contemporary sources. Cenél Loairn and Cenél nGabráin would be much more accurate. All kings of Scots from Malcolm III until the Great Cause had Gaelic genealogies read out to them on "coronation" tracing their descent to "Kenneth MacAlpin", and so are just as much "Alpin" as "Dunkeld". But as "Duncan" I was born of Crinan, Abbot of Dunkeld, the Dunkeld dynasty would start with him; it's arbitrary to start with "Malcolm" III. (See Mormaer_of_Moray#Comparative_Moravian_and_Scottish_Genealogies). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Calgacus (talk • contribs) .

That's true, but royalty fans like that sort of stuff, although they'd usually change the dynasty at Mary's death, and again on the ascension of William & Mary. So it's neither one thing nor the other as it is now. It gives no indication that Macbeth and Duncan had equally good claims, both being Uí Cináeda, Uí Ailpín and Uí Fergusa. That goes past the "Wars of Independence" as well, or so that James VI quote you found about being "sprung from Fergus's race" would lead me to believe. It also says Margaret was Queen, and Archie Duncan says not. Some of the Irish dynasties have a family tree thing - Uí Néill, Connachta, and so on - that might be better. Angus McLellan 00:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Having tried editing some of those family trees, no it wouldn't be a good plan. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stuart-Lennox

It is reasonable to distinguish between the Stewarts and Stuarts. The Stuarts came from the junior line of Lennox, which is just as notable as Capet-Valois etc and especially due to the nature differentiating the old Stewarts of Scotland and the new Stuarts at the Union of the Crowns. SEE HERE IP Address 22:11, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Coronated

Surely a monarch is crowned at their coronation? Conornated is a new one on me, and even if it is a word, it certainly isn't the usual form. Dainamo 13:34, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scots

Would it be possible to get the Scots language forms of the names, considering that Scots was the official language of Scotland from the 14th century until the Acts of Union? --Lemmy Kilmister-- 06/06/06, roughly 17:00

You mean 15th. Well, as Scots is a form of English, the names are the same. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 16:07, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Amlaíb of Scotland

I was quite surprised to see this person in the list, never heard of him before. A solitary reference in the Annals of Ulster seems scant ground for regarding him as a king of Scots. See the dispute over Margaret of Scotland. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PatGallacher (talk • contribs) .

Well, that's the Annals of Ulster and the Annals of Tigernach and the Chronicon Scotorum and the Annals of Clonmacnoise. However, if it were merely the primary sources, that would be WP:OR and a Bad Thing. As noted in the article, Warlords and Holy Men and Kingship of the Scots both include him as a king (or co-king for W&HM). What The Making of the Kingdom says I have no idea. I believe he's mentioned in the Biographical Dictionary of Dark-Age Britain. Compared to Eochaid of Scotland, say, or the "invented history" of Cináed I's forefathers, Amlaíb/Olafr is pretty solid. Angus McLellan (Talk) 14:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Direct descent from Fergus Mór to Elizabeth II

Do we have the relevant info and know-how to create a matching article to this English one?

Direct descent from William I to Elizabeth II

Could we do:

Direct descent from Kenneth I to Elizabeth II

or even better:

Direct descent from Fergus Mór to Elizabeth II

This, of course, raises the obvious question: is there a direct line of descent from the first Kings of Scots to the current UK monarch? (I think I read somewhere that there is.) --Mais oui! 10:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Direct descent from Kenneth I to Elizabeth II is easy and uncontroversial. Direct descent from Fergus Mór to Elizabeth II isn't. Accepting medieval claims as true, yes, there is a genealogy here (at &para 1696), and there are other ones, all of which tell roughly the same story. Unfortunately, anything befire Cináed mac Ailpín is at best dubious and at worst completely fabricated. Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's great. So, what are the bona fide sources for our new Direct descent from Kenneth I to Elizabeth II article? I note that Direct descent from William I to Elizabeth II is currently {{unsourced}} (We can mention the, probably bogus, claims of descent back to Fergus as a footnote.) --Mais oui! 12:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dauvit Broun's Irish Identity of the Kingdom of the Scots, Archie Duncan's Kingship of the Scots and the Oxford Companion to Scottish History to start with. Angus McLellan (Talk) 13:12, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[Kicks self really hard] Of course there would be the implicit assumption that the verifiable line is the most direct one, and that some more direct line of which we know nothing does not exist. None of the sources make any claims about the directness of the known descent. Hmm. Angus McLellan (Talk) 14:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by "direct"?

It is very verifiable that the primogeniture descent starts from Robert Bruce as an earliest point. Over him and his descent, there exists at least the very verifiable more primogenitural descent of Balliols. Additionally, Robert II's marriages form a shit for true uncontested legitimacy of that directness (it is approximately same as the Beaufort problem of the Lancaster descent in England). And, Act of Settlement 1701 diverted the succession from primogeniture as is all too well known. Suedois 12:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename

I propose to move this article to Monarch of Scotland. The current "List" title is a misnomer, since it isn't just a list. And the content of the opening sections can be expanded further. There is a lot more to say about the history of the monarchy of Scotland as an institution. The "List of monarchs" can be a section of this article. Any comments?--JW1805 (Talk) 00:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, some information is already at British monarch, but I am sure more can be provided- lists of monarchs are already adequately covered. Astrotrain 10:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move. This is a very good list. Check out featured lists for other lists like this. Rmhermen 03:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Format

I agree with the opposition to the renaming proposal above. However, if this article is to continue in the form of a list could someone with the relevant know-how possibly try formatting it to match : List of English monarchs. If not I'll have a play in the sandbox and try to do so myself at a future date, assuming there are no objections to the adoption of that style. Antisthenes 15:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Idi Amin

Can someone please explain Idi Amin's claim?