Talk:Der Ring des Nibelungen

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JRR Tolkien, redux

The section about "J. R. R. Tolkien's fantasy novels The Hobbit (1937) and The Lord of the Rings (1954) [sharing] elements with Der Ring des Nibelungen" urgently needs sourcing that is not whole-cloth OR. In other words, you cannot just refer to the books and claim "it's obvious", you have to refer to a reputable, published source that says so, especially since the only other reference in the section is of the author himself denying it... -- 145.228.61.5 (talk) 12:42, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But it IS obvious...73.220.34.167 (talk) 05:23, 29 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The hobbit is largely influenced by Icelandic sagas, mainly the Völlungarsaga, the same source Wagners play is also largely influenced by. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien%27s_influences --2001:A62:43D:7101:EDD8:73DB:A21A:F99F (talk) 14:21, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Correct. Correlation is not causation, and no mention of Tolkien is necessary in this context.2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:F59D:E6C5:9974:ED (talk) 08:06, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality tag on article

On 27 August User:Alex Cohn added a POV tag to the article which leaves a message "The neutrality of this section is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page" but there is no discussion of that on this talk page, the most recent discussion is an argument about infoboxes, what a surprise, from three years ago. That NPOV tag should not be on the article without identifying what the problem is. I will wait a few days before removing it. The article is certainly a mess, many sections without citations and needs lots of work which I am not enough of a Wagnerian to undertake.Smeat75 (talk) 16:28, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, I forgot to update the talk page. I think the neutrality issues in the Content section are pretty obvious - we should not be making statements like "Perhaps the most outstanding facet of the monumental work" or "The music of the cycle is thick and richly textured" in Wikipedia's voice without providing a source and attributing them. Something somewhat akin to "X's reviews of the work emphasized the thick and richly textured music" would be ok with me. As it is now, it comes across as unencyclopedic puffery. I'm also not enough of a Wagnerian to tackle this. --Alex Cohn (let's chat!) 17:02, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Since every one of the shelves of criticism and analysis on the work would agree that the music is "thick and richly textured" we should absolutely not attribute this thought in the text to some random dork. WP:SKYISBLUE. A ref or two to key writers would be in order. Johnbod (talk) 17:35, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for removing the NPOV tag, which I also came to find the "citation" for. I thought "the music of the cycle is thick and richly textured" to be some of the best writing in Wikipedia. Editors forget, that after the citations are imbedded, someone needs to come through and actually write the article. Most of my editing is transforming disjointed lists of quotes into readable prose. As for "puffery", Wagner is the Prince of Puffery, the God of Grand. Let's celebrate his vision and talent, in his own style, as best we can approach his expressive genius. 184.69.174.194 (talk) 16:25, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

First paragraph of Story section appears in another site

https://www.storytel.com/pl/pl/books/765629-Siegfried-and-The-Twilight-of-the-Gods-The-Ring-of-the-Niblung-A-Trilogy-with-a-Prelude contains essentially the first paragraph of the Story section, which only has minor differences. Should that site be referenced as a source, has plagiarism occurred, or did that site copy the Wikipedia paragraph?— Wdfarmer (talk) 04:44, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That section has been in this article since 2002; its current section header was applied on 26 October 2003. The book cited above seems to be from 2016. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:46, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Wotan" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Wotan. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 8#Wotan until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Thespündragon 05:58, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Wotan redirects here" - tell people why

I reproduce in its entirety a comment from the redirection discussion in the section above.

QUOTE: This redirect previously pointed to Odin, but was changed to the current target, a set of epic music-dramas using Odin-Wotan as a character, in May of this year. Wotan is a German-language form of the name of Odin,(see wikt:Wotan) not specifically the name of Odin-Wotan as he appears in the Wagnerian epics. (Though the form was popularized by the epics) Most of the links to this redirect seem to be referring to the god rather than the epic character. I think that it should be retargeted back to Odin, as the god is the primary topic over the epic character, and the present target Der Ring des Nibelungen is potentially surprising to people looking for information on the god. -Thespündragon 05:55, 8 August 2021 (UTC) UNQUOTE

The result was "keep". If someone looks up "Wotan" and is redirected to this article, there is currently nothing to give them the information in the quote, and that is their primary interest - "potentially surprising". Adding the information, preferably near the top of the article, would disrupt the flow. Is it possible to put some sort of pointer in the redirection notice itself? Or else do have a separate article for "Wotan" saying little more than is in the quote, and then referring to this article. But then where are the Reliable Sources?

... It's beyond me. 194.193.146.51 (talk) 15:26, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The full text of the hatnote is «"Wotan" redirects here. For other uses, see Wotan (disambiguation).» Clicking of the provided link for "other uses" gives the explanation, as will inspection of the section "List of characters". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Brünhilde

Brünhilde is the only character who acts with honesty and integrity throughout. Thus she must be the linchpin of any moral or ethical interpretation of the cycle. I am sure I am not the only one who has noticed this. Is there any good citable literary criticism on this? 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:F59D:E6C5:9974:ED (talk) 08:08, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]