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Talk:Ibn al-Banna' al-Marrakushi

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Suratrat (talk | contribs) at 18:11, 8 January 2023 (→January 2023). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

January 2023

@Suratrat: you've been around (using different accounts) long enough to know better than to describe as "vandalism" what clearly is not. You also know, as well as I do, that there was no such thing as Moroccan, Algerian or Tunisian back then. Maghrebis were simply referred to as either Maghrebis, Muslims, Arabs, etc., with some having the tribes they belonged to or the towns they lived in attached to their name (al-Marrakushi == from Marrakesh). The same goes for birth and death place: to avoid the anachronism, the most appropriate "country"/place would be Almohad Caliphate and Marinid Sultanate (this is in line with how we treat other Maghrebis from the same period). Obviously, you can find sources for all kind of things (even those who were born a 1000 years are described in some sources as Algerians, Tunisians, etc), but it doesn't mean that you have to use them. M.Bitton (talk) 14:38, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The only thing I know is that you're removing referenced content which is vandalism. Stick to what the reliable sources in the article state. -Suratrat (talk) 15:03, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Since you insist on describing it as "vandalism" and started an edit war, I don't really know what else to say to you. M.Bitton (talk) 15:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is vandalism and you're really removing sourced content from the article. -Suratrat (talk) 15:11, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually there was no Morocco at the time of al-Marrakushi's birth or death. It appears the Almohad Caliphate was in power when al-Marrakushi was born and the Marinid Sultanate was in power when he died. Is this not historically accurate? --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:47, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The problem of when the Moroccan state was founded is still debated in historical circles. There are usually maximalists (the historians who say that it started in the Idrisid era) and minimalists (the ones who say that it started in the Saadid era) but this article is not about this. The only thing we should do is present what's in reliable sources which is that he was a "Moroccan scholar/polymath" (Encyclopaedia of Islam, 3rd ed. , Encyclopaedia of Islam, 2nd ed.) and that he was born in "Morocco" (The Biographical Encyclopedia of Astronomers Encyclopaedia of the History of Science, Technology, and Medicine in Non-Western Cultures p:1088) -Suratrat (talk) 15:57, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense! The Almoravids invaded what we now call Morocco and so did the Marinids. What would make these invaders Moroccans or explain the fictitious continuation of a so-called state is anyone's guess. In any case, you didn't answer the question. M.Bitton (talk) 16:03, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense! The Almoravids invaded what we now call Morocco and so did the Marinids. What would make these invaders Moroccans or explain the fictitious continuation of a so-called state is anyone's guess. In any case, you didn't answer the question.
You're doing it again, speculating about the existence of Morocco with some Bokpasien arguments and your fringe theory that Morocco didn't exist before the 20th century while all historians contradict you. You already had that discussion with Walrasiad and it didn't go anywhere.
You're still not giving any reasons to justify removing the content in this article and you're just POV pushing. All these specialized reliable sources mention him as a Moroccan and the place where he was born as Morocco:
"...a versatile Moroccan scholar whose reputation rests mainly on his knowledge of mathematics, astronomy, astrology and occult sciences." Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition
"....was a Moroccan polymath best known for his textbooks on mathematics and astronomy." Encyclopaedia of Islam, THREE
"The Moroccan Ibn al-Banna' (1256-1321)" General history of Africa, abridged edition v. 4, p:28
"Ibn al-Banna' was born in Marrakesh, Morocco on 29 December 1256....." Encyclopaedia of the History of Science, Technology, and Medicine in Non-Western Cultures p:1088
"Marrakech, (Morocco)" The Biographical Encyclopedia of Astronomers
Why should we omit the fact that he was a Moroccan scholar/polymath and that most of reliable sources represent him as such? -Suratrat (talk) 17:39, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As I already explained: there was no such a thing as Morocco or Moroccan back then. That's a fact!
I see no reason to introduce anachronism into the article or treat him differently from the other Maghrebis of the same period.
Your WP:CANVASSING and persistent personal attacks have been duly noted. If this continues, you'll take a trip to ANI. M.Bitton (talk) 17:48, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As I already explained: there was no such a thing as Morocco or Moroccan back then. That's a fact!

Yes your theory that it started existing in the 20th century is the real one.

I see no reason to introduce anachronism into the article or treat him differently from the other Maghrebis of the same period.

Again, Are all of these sources unreliable so we shouldn't use them or you just don't like it?

Your WP:CANVASSING has been duly noted.

You figured me out, you caught me red handed. Linking to a semi-retired editor who isn't editing anymore is canvassing, okay. -Suratrat (talk) 18:10, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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