Talk:Waco siege
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on April 19, 2014. |
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2019 and 12 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mdchavez02.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Chronology of events on February 28
Time | Event |
---|---|
05:00 | 76 agents assemble at Fort Hood for the drive to the staging area at the Bellmead Civic Center. According to a later Treasury Department Review, the agents drove in an 80-vehicle convoy that stretched for a mile (1.6 km) with a cattle trailer at either end. |
09:45 | ATF agents move in on the compound. A gun battle begins. |
09:48 | Branch Davidian Wayne Martin, a Waco attorney, calls 9-1-1. |
11:30 | Ceasefire reached. |
16:00 | The first message from Koresh is relayed over KRLD Radio In Dallas. |
16:55 | Michael Schroeder is shot dead returning to the compound. |
17:00 | ATF spokesman Ted Royster says gunfire has continued sporadically through the afternoon. |
19:30 | Koresh is interviewed by CNN. The FBI instructs CNN not to conduct further interviews. |
20:15 | ATF spokesperson Sharon Wheeler says negotiations continue with Branch Davidians and gunfire has ended. |
22:00 | Four children exited the compound (two Sonobe children and two Fagan children). |
22:05 | Koresh talks for about 20 minutes on KRLD, describing his beliefs and saying he is the most seriously wounded of the Branch Davidians. |
Cyanide mention
There seems to be a political or non-neutral desire to insert that cyanide gas from the CS devices caused the deaths of children. No credible source has shown that the devolution of CS to form cyanide as a byproduct. A cursory examination of the known chemical pathways shows this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8000:D100:72ED:91B5:87C0:5BD2:6D55 (talk) 17:03, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
This article by a former chemical-warfare defence expert with the US Army and later the US Secret Service says, 'It is clear from the literature that HCN — that is, hydrogen cyanide gas — is one of the thermal decomposition products that can be created when CS breaks down at high temperatures.' Being lighter than air it would only concentrate to dangerous levels in confined spaces, but that might apply to the burning Waco compound. And HCN can also be produced by burning PVC plastic, which is very common. There was probably a fair bit of it in those buildings. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/02/07/cs-tear-gas-in-hong-kong-and-elsewhere-assessing-the-hazards/ Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:36, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
Another horrible article
As usual, Wikipedia fails in providing accurate facts. The lead claims (as of 6/27/2022) that the U.S. military was part of the "siege" and provides a reference to a very short ABC News piece that does NOT support that claim. The lead also claims that the siege, also known as the massacre was carried out by the government. So, the government carried out a massacre??? or a siege?? Or are the editors incapable of distinguishing between the two? The way the lead is written is highly misleading and unquestionably incorrect. Fix it.174.131.48.89 (talk) 02:11, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
- a 152.26.89.236 (talk) 16:50, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
- Based on the contents of the article, the term "siege" seems accurate. Wikipedia's page on the term states "A siege is a military blockade of a city, or fortress, with the intent of conquering by attrition, or a well-prepared assault." The FBI engaged in attrition-focused tactics (loud music to prevent sleep, cutting off utilities). Whether the compound could be considered a "fortress" is somewhat debatable, but the definition seems to fit. Whether or not the actions were justified by the fact that the compound was led by an authoritarian serially pedophilic rapist who was hording weapons only useful in combat against similarly armed humans is immaterial to the description of the actions taken. The article is quite clear about the conditions inside the compound.
- The term "massacre" seems more dubious. There doesn't seem to be enough evidence to say with confidence how the fires started, let alone determine the level of intentionality. However, I think the use of the word in this article is appropriate. In fact, outside of the "references" and "see also" sections, it only appears 4 times. The first time is in the intro, where it states that the event is also referred to as the Waco Massacre. Labeling it this way might be misleading, but this is a term used often enough that it is informative to note that this label refers to the events described in this article. The second use is noting that the Columbine High School massacre may have happened on the day it did due to the day of the Waco siege. The third time is referencing the title of a book, and the fourth time is describing the contents of a book describing how a sect can massacre itself. I don't see any indication that the article is promoting the idea that the government perpetrated the massacre, other than to note that some people have made that accusation. Skyvine (talk) 19:42, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
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