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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by JamiroquaiTopG (talk | contribs) at 23:16, 16 July 2023 (→It's too big: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Tate's gender identity

Andrew Tate now identifies as a woman. I think this should be reflected on her Wikipedia page. GHDmnespafro (talk) 19:28, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reliable source that verifies that claim? Cullen328 (talk) 19:40, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Her Twitter account. GHDmnespafro (talk) 19:46, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Provide links to the specific tweets and describe their context. Have secondary sources discussed this? Cullen328 (talk) 19:50, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here: https://twitter.com/Cobratate/status/1665414429628940290 - and the account description states "most Googled woman in the world". I don't think much more discussion is needed on the matter. She also identifies as a lesbian woman: https://twitter.com/Cobratate/status/1665427011689488384. GHDmnespafro (talk) 20:10, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He is bullshitting to get attention. Analysis by reliable secondary sources is required. Cullen328 (talk) 21:23, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's sarcasm. Similarly, Drake also made the song "Girls Want Girls". In the "Danny Glover" (Remix), Nicki Minaj rapped that she would "f*** ya wife". It's all attention-seeking nonsense.--2601:C4:C300:2890:517E:2636:7212:373E (talk) 22:17, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In response to a tweet by politician and activist Nina Turner that any person who identifies as a woman is a woman, Andrew Tate identified as a woman.
She also changed her Twitter profile description from "Most Googled Man in the world." to "Woman." and then changed it to "Most Googled Woman in the world."
Also in an now deleted Infowars podcast from July 2022 she talks about the idea to becoming a woman.
Also other influencers like Ryan Dawson or ALX refer to her as "(trans) woman". 2001:9E8:E92E:F200:4948:66EC:3D42:740 (talk) 03:45, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We cannot and should not conjecture or evaluate the motives but only whether it is serious or a temporary joke.
Since she has been talking about it for almost a year, the identification as a (trans) woman seems to be serious.
Also in view of the current investigations in Romania it might be more advantageous to be treated as a formal woman or at least trans instead of a cis man. 2001:9E8:E92E:F200:4948:66EC:3D42:740 (talk) 03:46, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tate is almost certainly not being serious. I would like to see reliable sources identify this as his legitimate gender identify before any consideration of changing pronouns. Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 03:48, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • From a policy perspective, the way to look at it this: We use the pronouns used in the most recent reliable sources. A self-identification is usually a reliable source, but not always. Per WP:ABOUTSELF, statements about oneself are not reliable if the material is ... an exceptional claim. Obviously, this is an exceptional claim, so secondary confirmation is needed. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 04:32, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    "Obviously, this is an exceptional claim" -- hmm, I don't think we generally should be seeing gender identifications in primary sources as "exceptional claims" and, therefore, unusable. We can probably trust gender-ID's in primary sources for most people. We just need to apply some common sense and WP:IAR with situations like this, and I'd like to note they are becoming more abundant. This happened with Tucker Carlson and Matt Walsh (political commentator) recently. Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 06:58, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah. It reminds me of the time that Ted Nugent said he identifies as a gay pirate from Cuba. Knowing what we know about Nugent, we should take that with a huge grain of salt and not actually start describing him as gay (or Cuban, or a pirate) in the Ted Nugent article. There was also a mass shooting at a gay nightclub recently where the shooter subsequently claimed to be nonbinary, even though he had never given any indications of such prior to the shooting. See Anderson Lee Aldrich. 2600:1014:B056:105A:7D45:D5A1:3099:4193 (talk) 07:05, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Iamreallygoodatcheckers: Oh, I'm not saying that gender self-IDs are categorically exceptional claims; in fact, very few are. It's just that this one in particular is, due to the subject's known views on trans issues and his tone in expressing this "coming-out". But yeah, one can just as well view it as IAR; both roads lead to Rome. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 14:51, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've pulled this back from the archive and pinned it, to avoid everyone having to make the same points each time someone brings this up. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 05:34, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Threads like this one and the one below make me worry about what's going to happen in two weeks when the page protection expires. If there's massive trolling, no doubt it will be reinstated, but per WP:PREEMPTIVE, we're in for a wild few days at least. 〜 Askarion ✉ 14:06, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't understand why we ever go through this song and dance on articles where we know frequent vandalism is inevitable. It's an all-around waste of time. DFlhb (talk) 08:00, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tate’s denial ought to be included in lede.

Again, I have to insist that Tate’s denial is included following the description of his charges in the lede. “Tate denies all charges.” or “Tate denies any wrongdoing.” would suffice. As it stands, this paragraph seems unbalanced to me. It’s only one side of an argument. Asperthrow (talk) 22:41, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. I'm fine with including or omitting it from the lead, seeing as his denial is discussed later in the article. It makes little difference, so in the interest of fairness I've added it to the lead unless someone else objects. 〜 Askarion ✉ 00:20, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Citation 29

Citation 29 is used to claim rate admits to owning the webcam business on his website but it actually just links to an article about him being banned from Twitter. I just want an actual source for the webcam site info. 2601:18C:9101:4930:6D6E:519A:52E4:E2FD (talk) 02:38, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The 18th paragraph of [29] reads:

It also includes a ‘PhD program’ on “all male-female interactions”, where Mr Tate claims that the success of a webcam studio he runs is due to the fact that “over 50% of all my employees were actually my girlfriend at the time” and that his job was “to get women to fall in love with [him]”.

This is the paragraph the article is citing, which backs up that Tate runs (or claims to run) a successful webcam business using his girlfriends as employees. 〜 Askarion ✉ 03:39, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tate is a woman

Trolling. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 05:14, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Tate discussed in her most recent interview with Patrick Bet David that she is now a woman. In order to maintain consistency with the rest of Wikipedia, and not be transphobic, all of her pronouns should be changed in the article. 2601:341:8100:B420:FC1C:B4B:B896:D820 (talk) 04:31, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This has already been discussed. Tate is not a woman in comments about being one are said in jest. Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 04:33, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You don’t get to decide if they were said in jest. If she says she’s a woman, that’s all it takes to be an irrefutable fact. Now stop being transphobic and change her pronouns! 2601:341:8100:B420:FC1C:B4B:B896:D820 (talk) 04:36, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are no reliable sources that report Tate's pronouns are she/her or that his identity as a woman is genuine. Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 04:37, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
She said it. That’s all it takes and all that matters. 2601:341:8100:B420:FC1C:B4B:B896:D820 (talk) 04:41, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MOS:GENDERID: Refer to any person whose gender might be questioned with the name and gendered words (e.g. pronouns, man/woman/person, waiter/waitress/server) that reflect the person's most recentexpressed self-identification as reported in the most recent reliable sources... Commonsense will tell you that someone like Andrew Tate is not authentically identifying as a woman and the absence of secondary reliable source's affirming his proclaimed womanhood is also telling. We can argue over the linguistics of any given guideline or policy, such as whether a primary source is reliable enough to evoke GENDERID protections. But that's not needed here because we know what's going on -- just ignore the rules. Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 04:51, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Go on YouTube and look up her interview. She literally says her pronouns are now she/her. As far as ignoring the rules, changing Dylan Mulvaney’s pronouns to she/her doesn’t make Wikipedia better, but if (BLP violation removed), I’d get an IP ban. Do you see the incoherence in this trans ideology and why Wikipedia should take no part in it? 2601:341:8100:B420:FC1C:B4B:B896:D820 (talk) 05:00, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to discuss Dylan Mulvaney go to Talk:Dylan Mulvaney, but you are correct in that you would likely be unsuccessful in arguing to change Mulvaney's pronouns from she/her. The reason why the Dylan Mulvaney article uses she/her is because there's no doubt that her identification is genuine and the identification is reported as so in reliable sources. I don't believe there is an inconstancy on how Wikipedia treats transgender issues in the way you are suggesting. Wikipedia accepts authentic gender identifications, and Tate's is simply not authentic while Mulvaney's is. Iamreallygoodatcheckers talk 05:08, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(BLP violation removed) 2601:341:8100:B420:FC1C:B4B:B896:D820 (talk) 05:13, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The House Arrest

Andrew Tate Andrew Tate has recently been released and his good friend Adin Ross tweeted out a very funny fact about Andrew’s release, he has been released on the same day the movie the matrix was released, Andrew Tate has recently been placed on house arrest for this time period because the judge decided it’s best for Andrew and his little brother Tristan Tate, while in prison, Andrew claims he did 7,000 pushups as the reason for the Tate brothers muscles, people speculated they were on steroids but that was later debunked. While in prison, the Tate brothers also grew hair and a big beard, but later while they were on house arrest, Adin Ross reacted to Andrew getting his old haircut back, for now that is all what happened, we will see what happens next. 2607:FEA8:68E8:9B00:C82C:2213:D131:5499 (talk) 15:19, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's too big

The article is too long to navigate comfortably and should be split up, including a separate article about the criminal investigation and a new article about Tristan Tate who is notable in his own right. JamiroquaiTopG (talk) 23:16, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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