Talk:Frasier

Maris Crane

Should Maris Crane, Niles Crane's ex-wife, be listed in the "main characters" section? She never appeared in the show, and no one played her, but as Niles and many other people were often talking about her, she's an important unseen character on the show, similar to Sheridan Bucket on Keeping up appearances. JIP | Talk 00:44, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

She's not a "main character" but seems like a recurring character to me, and an important one, too. I'm surprised she isn't listed, unless there's some rule that listed characters must have on-screen appearances? Grand Dizzy (talk) 09:08, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Season color

I notice the season colors (in the overview table) reflect the DVD box set color. Wouldn't it be better to use the logo colors instead? (Each season has a unique logo color.) Surely the color of the logo within the show itself is more authoratitive than box art, which can vary with re-releases? Having the logo color in the chart would also serve as a useful key for identifying what season an episode falls within. The column header could say "Season" then below that "(logo color)". I'd be happy to make this change if approved? Grand Dizzy (talk) 22:38, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

The current colors must remain as-is, i.e. stay. There's nothing wrong with "DVD box set color[s]," and trying to change to logo colors would be fan reaction or abidance to fans, wouldn't it? Furthermore, they should follow WP:COLOR/WP:contrast. George Ho (talk) 23:23, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't see what it has to do with fans? I don't consider myself a fan, but to me it just seems like common sense to use the official season colors chosen by the producers of the show to represent each season. Using colors of the DVD box sets seems more like something a fan would do. That is a separate medium and not an intrinsic aspect of the show. Furthermore, I think the logo colors are worthy of mentioning in the article anyway, and a table would make sense, so why not just combine this information with the main overview table? Grand Dizzy (talk) 13:55, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

First, there are colors listed in Fandom and seen in video. Then use one of color contrast tools like Colour Contrast Analyser to test out which color is visible for either black or white text and for most (if not all) readers on mobile and desktop. --George Ho (talk) 19:39, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Forgive me but I didn't understand your reply. I don't really see what legibility has to do with anything, all I'm suggesting is simply changing the color of the boxes, like this: https://i.ibb.co/bKVx4fW/Before-after.png Grand Dizzy (talk) 21:58, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

I'll elaborate further. Any color change may either affect or improve readability, especially of general readers, depending on which colors you use. If a background color is too dark or too light, then a reader would have difficulty seeing a text on front of the background color until you make minor correction (or change) to that color (or text color). To be sure, which code did you use for web colors? I would like to test out the colors for readability. (I bet it's hex triplet, isn't it?) As for matching which colors used for the show's logo, season 11's logo color doesn't look metallic gold, does it? I'm thinking golden yellow, almost similar to that logo color (methinks). And season 3's logo color isn't green; it's turquoise, right? Fandom has a list of the colors; so does a YouTube compilation video of opening titles. George Ho (talk) 22:22, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Oh, and to change colors, you must also change colors at the season articles, like Frasier (season 1). I wonder whether you knew that. George Ho (talk) 23:55, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I hadn't realized the colors were also used as headings on the List of Episodes page, that explains what the colors are actually for, and why you mentioned legibility. This is not an issue though, I can use shades that work against black or white text. See example image: https://i.ibb.co/HqJ2fLd/Legibility2.png

As for season 3 being too green, most of the logos on the show used slight gradients - season 3 is greener at the top, and I sampled all my colors from the very top of the logo where the color is strongest. Instead of doing this, I would use an overall average of the hue, to get the best overall approximation. And yes, the final two season colors have a metallic/shiny effect. We can only approximate these to a single color. I don't think this is a problem, so long as the color corresponds with overall color of the one on the show.

As for web-safe colors, they are a thing of the past. To quote Web_colors: "Through the 2000s, use of 256-color displays in personal computers dropped sharply in favour of 24-bit displays, and the use of "web-safe" colors has fallen into practical disuse." Grand Dizzy (talk) 11:48, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

No worries about not realizing. Well, someone else changed the background color of one season article, so I had to match the colors without reverting back the changes made. George Ho (talk) 17:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

OK. How about I make a final selection of colors, or make the edit, and if you or anyone has an objection then it can be undone, no harm done? Grand Dizzy (talk) 17:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Um... How about this: give out proposed hex triplet codes in this format, so I'll test out with a color analyzer tool whether each season color is good for everyone, including blind readers, and whether that color abides to WP:color and consensus from 2015 discussion. George Ho (talk) 18:12, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Great, but what exactly do you mean by this format? I would normally give colors in a format like #4F5D8C - is that any good? Grand Dizzy (talk) 23:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Um... never mind that format then. Anyways, according to the Colour Contrast Analyser, the #4F5D8C isn't a good color for black text, and any minor change to that color still wouldn't make black text readable. In other words, any major change to the color would make the black readable, but then the color wouldn't be the same.

For white text, the text is readable in Minimum mode (1.4.3) but not in Enhanced mode (1.4.6) (unless you enlarge the text in that mode). If you would like the white text to be more readable in both modes, I would just lessen the green color a little bit, turning the code into #4F548C. Notice that "5D" was reduced to "54". Turn the green part way down to "00" (i.e. #4F008C), and the Analyser tool finds the color passable, but then you would change the whole color. George Ho (talk) 00:15, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, the color I gave was random numbers just to illiustrate the color format. I'll get back to you with 11 real colors. Grand Dizzy (talk) 17:04, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Unresolved Issue?

"One unresolved issue was whether Frasier and Niles were psychiatrists or psychologists. On a few occasions Martin says his sons went to medical school and were doctors. That would have made them psychiatrists. On other occasions it was said both had PhD’s, which would have made them psychologists. In one episode Frasier claimed to have both an MD and a PhD. This issue was never addressed and still remains unresolved." (unsourced)

The characters states explicitly many times that they are psychiatrists. (Not to mention, that they are referred to as psychiatrists in every other instance on the page.)

Drsruli (talk) 07:57, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Scene Captions

"Frasier had humorous "chapter headings" on black as bumpers." This is distinctive and deserves a mention somewhere on the page.

Drsruli (talk) 08:02, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. I was looking for this as well. I can’t find a reference, maybe someone with journalistic talents can ask the show. These cards seem to me like lines that were in the scene but scrapped for some reason. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s true. ritu_m (talk) 20:16, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Canned laughter

Please remove this hideous distraction! 68.4.252.33 (talk) 04:04, 5 July 2023 (UTC)