Talk:Vladimir Lenin

Semi-protected edit request on 19 January 2024

Please add the following, as the penultimate sentence in the sub-section entitled "Death and funeral: 1923–1924".

In November 2018, Sergey Malinkovich, the central committee secretary of the Communists of Russia political party, called for the criminal prosecution of Vladimir Petrov, a lawmaker in the Leningrad region, for insulting religious believers by calling for Lenin’s preserved body to be buried. He said Petrov's proposal had violated the Criminal Code of Russia by insulting religious feelings and inciting hatred, and that he planned to "keep hounding" Petrov for his remarks. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:90C5:84C7:E1DA:1A9 (talk) 00:12, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: This information would be out of scope on this article. I would put it on Lenin's Mausoleum#Contemporary instead (not semi-protected). — FenrisAureus ▲ (she/they) (talk) 02:15, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

References

Syphilis

why is not mentioned here, that he probably got infected with Syphilis? At younger age during his european stays? See Valerij Novoselovs documentary. Russia refused to disclose official medical records about Lenin till 2024, but all ancillary evidence points to this diagnose. In other languages Wiki it is mentioned. 213.81.198.147 (talk) 12:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

The number of delegates at the First Congress of the Comintern

The current version of this article states that there were 34 delegates at the First Congress of the Comintern. However, having looked through different sources, i found that there are discrepancies regarding the number of people attended the meeting. For example:

• Shub (1966, p.390) states that there were "thirty-five delegates and fifteen guests."
• Service (2000, p.386) states that there were "thirty-four delegates."
• Furthermore, The Comintern by McDermott & Agnew (1996, p.12), not cited in this article, states that "Only nine of the fifty-one cold guests arrived from abroad [to attend the meeting]."

That being said, could someone here ascertain the exact number and correct the statement accordingly? - Billcipher123 (talk) 18:04, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

An easy solution would be for the article to omit mentioning an exact number of delegates, since it isn't really required. That being said, one book specifically about the First Congress gives 34 delegates with a "decisive vote" and 18 with a "consultative vote," making for 52 in total (Riddell, Founding of the Communist International: Proceedings and Documents of the First Congress, p. 67.) Another book dealing specifically about the first and second congresses likewise states that 52 individuals "participated" in the first (Hulse, The Forming of the Communist International, p. 17.) --Ismail (talk) 15:08, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, as you said, i think omitting this bit of info makes the most sense since this articles doesn't have to go into that level of detail anyway. Billcipher123 (talk) 12:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 February 2024

Replace {{family name hatnote}}, and place {{family name footnote}} in the lead sentence. 103.119.55.216 (talk) 12:26, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. I think it is better to have the visibility at the top of the article. RudolfRed (talk) 02:54, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Propose moving sub section "death and funeral: 1923-1924" up as a top level section.

Currently "death and funeral: 1923-1924" is a sub section under "Lenin's government". Does not seem logical. His death is really not a part of his government. PastaMonk 11:13, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I think the status quo is preferable; it is generally neater. Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:37, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

@Midnightblueowl:- A couple of months ago, I was reading a comment on Facebook that Lenin was assassinated on the orders of Stalin (this statement is seen very frequently on social media). I had a suspicion this is wrong information. I vaguely remember, he died of some illness. I came to this page to double check. I don't find this information. The average Wikipedia user does not have have the time or inclination to read the entire article, digest it, admire it's beauty etc. They need information they can look up quickly. That is what people expect from an encyclopedia. If the information cannot be found easily, it's not very neat. Agree ? PastaMonk 09:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@Midnightblueowl:When viewed on Wikipedia mobile phone app the section "death and funeral: 1923-1924" is easy to find. For web users (on PC or laptop) it's not easy to find. The main sections appear collapsed. So, he won't know which one to expand to find the section on "death and funeral" PastaMonk 11:53, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Proposed changes to lede

I propose the following changes to the lede section, which I added as of this revision (Special:Permalink/1224837838) and that were recently reverted by Midnightblueowl:

1. State in the first paragraph that Lenin was the "founder and leader of the Bolsheviks, which led the October Revolution that established the world's first socialist state". This is key information (as important as his leadership of the Soviet state), and should be included early.
2. Mention the Russian Civil War, the event which dominated his administration, in the first paragraph.
3. Add some detail on Leninism in the first paragraph, as it constitutes his political legacy beyond his leadership: "his developments of Marx's theories of party, imperialism, the state, and revolution are called Leninism." The use of wikilinks in this is up for debate.
4. Remove mentions of his wife Nadezhda Krupskaya and the location of his death (Gorki), as they are not comparatively important.
5. Add a mention of the April Theses, which was one of the most important political documents that Lenin wrote.
6. Add a mention of war communism (and its major expression in the requisitioning of grain from the peasantry), which is as important as the New Economic Policy, which is already mentioned. It needs to be mentioned to demonstrate what was "new" about the NEP.
7. Expand on "popular uprisings" by mentioning the two most significant by name: "revolts such as the Tambov and Kronstadt rebellions".
8. Rephrase this info: "His administration defeated right and left-wing anti-Bolshevik armies in the Russian Civil War from 1917 to 1922 and oversaw the Polish–Soviet War of 1919–1921. [...] Several non-Russian nations had secured independence from Russia after 1917, but five were forcibly re-united into the new Soviet Union in 1922, while others repelled Soviet invasions." as such: "Some non-Russian nations of the former empire were re-united in the Soviet Union in 1922, while others (notably Poland) gained independence." This is both more concise and more accurate (much more than five "nations" were involved, I count at least the Ukrainians, Belarusians, the 3 Baltic nations, the 3 Transcaucasian nations, and the peoples of the Northern Caucasus as major national movements in the civil war).
9. Expand on "his health failing" by including that he "suffered three debilitating strokes in 1922 and 1923 and died the following year", which is important because it implies the power struggle that began here, and contextualizes the leadership transition to Stalin.
10. Add that it was under Stalin's leadership that he became the figurehead of Marxism–Leninism, and specify that it was the state ideology.
11. Rephrase the summary of his legacy: "Lenin is viewed by his supporters as a champion of socialism, communism, anti-imperialism and the working class, while his critics accuse him of establishing a totalitarian dictatorship that oversaw mass killings and political repression of dissidents." as such: "Lenin is praised by his supporters for establishing soviet democracy and a "dictatorship of the proletariat" which took steps towards socialism, while critics accuse him of overseeing mass killings and political repression of dissidents and either leading or preparing the way for a totalitarian dictatorship." The current text says the same thing in four different ways, while the proposed adds detail on what Lenin believed that he was establishing. Also, as elaborated in the article, not all scholars and critics believe Lenin ran a totalitarian dictatorship, though almost everyone acknowledges that he laid the groundwork for Stalin's.

I support all of these changes to the text, but they can be discussed point by point. Thoughts? — Goszei (talk) 22:18, 8 June 2024 (UTC)