Talk:Opioid
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Categorization of synthetics
I just changed the size of the heading "Piperanilides" to match the other headings. Due to the fact that "Morphinan derivatives", "Others", etc. were subheadings of it, and they don't seem to be related to piperidines, I think it was just a mistake made by the anon who added the subhead a couple months ago. If possible, I'd like someone who knows more about the chemistry to confirm this for me, as I can't find anything on Google for "piperanilide" but WP mirrors. What relation do piperanilides have with phenylpiperidines (as fentanyl is definitely also classed as the latter... I believe)? Oy. Thanks in advance... --Galaxiaad 08:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
- They are actually called "anilidopiperidines" or "anilinopiperidines". Fentanyl is no way a phenylpiperidine derivative, since it is an 4-anilidopiperidine (so N-phenylamino-piperidine) derivative.
The relation between 4-phenylpiperidines (e.g. meperidine/pethidine) and 4-anilidopiperidines (e.g. fentanyl) is that, both groups have certain structural similarity, namely the base of their molecular sceleton is the 1-alkylated, 4- substitued-piperidine. In the case of 4-phenylpiperidines, the 4-substituent is a phenyl or substitued phenyl cycle (e.g. 3-hydroxyphenyl in ketobemidone), whereas 4-anilidopiperidines have a N-phenylN-acylamido group as their 4-substituent (Ph-N(-CO-R)-), mostly N-phenyl-N-propionamido group (Ph-N(-CO-CH2-CH3)-). In general, anilidopiperidines are more potent opioids than phenylpiperidines.--84.163.87.92 21:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Chemical categorisation of fully synthetic opioids.
I have removed the link to ketobemidone from the sub-category "Piperoanilidines (or anilidopiperidines), because it is chemically a phenylpiperidine derivative (4-(3-hydroxyphenyl-1-methyl-4-(1-oxopropyl)-piperidine). I further suggest to fuse the sub-categories of "Phenylheptylamines" and "Diphenylpropylamine derivatives", under "Diphenylpropylamine derivatives", since both methadone and LAAM are chemically derivatives of 3,3-dipheylpropylamine (methadone can be described as (R,S)-1-methyl-3,3-diphenyl-3-(1-oxopropyl-)propyl-N,N-dimethylamine, however it is an homologue of diphenylpropylamine, namely (R,S)-2-N,N-dimethylamino-4,4,-diphenylheptan-5-one; same can be applied for levacetylmethadol/LAAM). Discussion is wellcomed, if nobody has objections, I will do so in few days.--84.163.87.92 21:19, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I will begin to try to improve the style of writing.
I think this article is quite good, but at present somewhat inaccessible for an untrained person. I will try to rewrite the point-wise sections as prose, and begin improving citations (as per WP:CITE and WP:CITET template). I will try not to change the content and meaning, but as always, criticism from others is important, especially as I am not a pro writer. I will post sections as I complete them. --Seejyb 23:50, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
- Should all the long paper or book citation details within the text not be converted into footnotes ? If people agree, I can help markup as footnotes and use the relevant citation template to standardise the styling. :-) The information in the article is detailsed and good but overall it reads like lecture-notes points rather than flowing prose. David Ruben Talk 01:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Summary of changes of January 24th, 2007; Section: synthetic opioids
The sub-categories "Diphenylheptylamines" (Methadone and LAAM) and "Diphenylpropylamine der." were fused under "Diphenylpropylamine derivatives"; for reason see my argumentation of January 19th. Further, "Piperoanilines" were renamed to "Anilidopiperidines", since this is the mostly used name for this subcategory of synthetic opioids in english literature (fentanyl derivatives); the opioid Etorphine was moved into subcategory "Oripavines", since it is an oripavine derivative. Opioids Loperamide and Diphenoxylate were moved into subcategory "Diphenylpropylamine derivatives", because they are both derivatives of this class (structurally akin to the opioid Piritramide). Spelling of the titles of subcategories "Benzomorphan derivatives" and "Morphinan derivatives" were corrected to "Benzomorphane" and "Morphinane" derivatives, respectivelly (see IUPAC organic nomenclature, english). For every change, a standard source cited is: ISBN 3-527-30403-7 ; Buschmann et al.: Analgesics. From Chemistry and Pharmacology to Clinical Apllication. Wiley-VCH, 2002.--84.163.91.142 03:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Summary of changes to opioids Jan 2007
Over the past two months I have been working steadily to add the clinical use of opioids for people with palliative care needs. I realise that opioids are used and abused for many other reasons, but feel that some of these are subjects for other sections, particularly the recreational use of the naturally occuring agents.
There is so much misinformation about this group of chemicals that many people who need opioids for the relief of symptoms such as pain or breathlessness, are frightened by the fear of addiction, tolerance or intolerable adverse effects. Ocasionally patients will believe pain is preferable.
I realise that some will find these changes more 'clinical', but I have tried to make the academic aspects readable. As far as possible I have tried to reference the experience of palliative care and attempted to make clear the diference between safe and unsafe use of opioids.
Being relatively new to Wikipedia, I am still learning the rules, and apologise that I have not previously written a comment to explain my actions and encourage debate. I am happy to do so now.
--Claud Regnard 23:22, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
No title
A citation is DEFINITELY needed for the claim that people taking opioids for medicinal purposes rarely get addicted.
-Jessica 71.246.71.26 12:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Quite right, although it is true that addiction is rare. After 30 years practice using opioids in palliaitve care I have never known a patient develop a craving or drug-seeking behaviour for their opioid. There are many references for this, but currently the best text is the Oxford Textbook of Palliatve Medicine. --Claud regnard 23:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I have merged the previous text for opiate into this expanded entry for opioid, and created a redirect from opiate.
As the article says, the word "opioid" is now the preferred general medical and scientific term for any drug, natural or synthetic, that behaves like opium on the central nervous system. "Opiate" is a more restrictive term that applies only to natural and semi-synthetic opioids, so I thought it made sense to perform this restructuring.
I have now also merged in the contents of opioid analgesic, added some text, and created a redirect. The list of opioids is not complete, and the various classifications need checking.
I am not particularly happy with the opening sentence referring to opium. I think this is a little unfortunate to imply all drugs listed below are opium derivates or opioid receptors are in any way sensitive to opium. It'd be better to mention opium later on in the article. Kpjas
How would you reword it? The definition of "opioid" *is* in fact any drug that mimics the effects of opium in the body, whether or not the drug is actually made from opium. Perhaps it would be better to say that an opioid is any drug that mimics the effects of *morphine*, the primary alkaloid in natural opium? User:Karn
The moderator was not happy with the style of the 'dangerous opioids or dangerous prescribers section, so I have changed this into a more suitable style (I hope).
--Claud regnard 23:48, 9 May 2007 (UTC)