Talk:Biofuel

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Archives

/Archive 1

Article editing

This article is looking scrappy and needs a good reworking. Any takers?!--Alex 16:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Smog?

Even though biofuels close the carbon cycle, wouldn't biofuels still produce smog when burned, just like conventional gasoline and diesel? —Ben FrantzDale 21:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes they do, sometimes even worst because the engines are not designed for the biofuel, biodiesel has this particular problem. Lkleinjans 12:25, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What a shame... close the carbon cycle but still pollute. If that's the case, it should be mentioned in the article. —Ben FrantzDale 14:02, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bioethanol/ethanol combustion contributes less smog as combustion temperatures inside the cylinder are lower compared to diesel and petroleum engines, and so less NOx is formed from nitrogen and oxygen reacting. NOx contibutes to photochemical smog

2nd generation fuels

I was very surprised to see nothing on 2nd generation fuels in this article. So I added some stuff I know. I will gather more references over the next weeks, so please don't delete! Lkleinjans 19:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal of New layout of Article

I would like to propose a new layout for the biofuel article. Firstly:

Shorten the introduction - it goes into too much depth
Abolish Direct Biofuel heading
Abolish Second Generation Biofuel heading
Abolish Examples heading and subheadings

Replace these with a list of all known biofuels stating below each biofuel how it is made -wikilinking to processes-; where it can be used -wikilinking to uses- and then state in which countries it is being used and to what percentage. Also for biofuels such as biodiesel and bioethanol provide a 'main article' link. This page should be a summary of all biofuels linking to the main pages of those biofuels and to the main pages of the processes and biomasses to make those biofuels. It can be stated below a biofuel heading if it is direct use or not. For instance:

Biodiesel

Main article: biodiesel

Production Raw Materials - e.g. Rapeseed
Production Methods - e.g. Transesterification of SVO or waste fat
Uses - e.g. as replacement for mineral diesel in diesel engines, can be used directly without engine modification. Currently used in the following countries: Europe etc.
Criticism - Palm oil rainforests etc.

Another heading of interest could be Biofuel Policies for instance in the UK 5% of all fuel sold must be biofuel by 2010 [1]

Could people please let me know what they think! Lkleinjans 19:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Back to Biofuel

"On the down side, methane has a global warming potential of 23 relative to CO2." The statement above is in the article but what is meant by down side. Is methane good or bad for the environment and how is it good or bad by burning it or doing nothing. @June 18 2007 by Daron Smith

The biofuel article is biased. Using fossil fuel to produce biofuel violates the principle of using biofuel in the first place. The burning of fossil fuel is one of the main causes of carbon dioxide increase leading to global worming. The planting of new crops especially legumes that don’t need fertilizers and then converting them to biofuel to replace all burning of fossil fuel would reduce the carbon dioxide in the air dramatically. @June 1 2007 by Daron Smith

Dear Daron Smith, I agree it is ridiculous that biofuels can be called biofuel when they are produced using mainly fossil fuels, but that is what First generation biofuels are, they usually on reduce carbon emissions by 20-40% instead of the 100% most people expect; Second generation fuels are a bit better at about 80% carbon emissions savings as opposed to using fossil fuel. But at the moment it is almost impossible to produce anything that doesn't have a net carbon emission due to the whole fossil oil economy.

Also try and get a user name at wikipedia, that way you can sign your comments using ~~~~ and so people can't see your IP address. Cheers Lkleinjans 22:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

definations of biofuels

If you google the terms: biofuel and glossary (and term, biomass) you will find that about 80% or more define it as a liquid or gas fuel derived from biomass. Calling wood a biofuel may be technically correct but confusing and swimming against the tide. KAM 01:46, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi KAM. If your point concerns wood (solid fuel?) and is directed to me, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Solid fuel has been specifically mentioned in the lead for some time. The changes I recently made were really just cosmetic and are unrelated to this point. TheBusiness 07:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC) Ok, I think you meant this in relation to wood fuel, so I've changed that back to just "fuel". TheBusiness 09:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- - Yes I shouldn't have edited in such an abrupt manner, it was done in a moment of impatience. Just from general reading it seems that the term biofuel is almost always used to mean liquid or gas fuels for transportation which I think you agree. Saying wood is a biofuel seems pedantic to me However it seems to me that, as written, it implies that this article is going to define the term biofuels in a more narrow manner then it's general use which would be original research. I though my edits just clarified what what was already implied in the article. For now I will remove the sources that I don't think support the statement and I apologize for the manner in which I made the edits. KAM 11:33, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism - ecological impact

Hi,

I just reworked the "ecological impact" section of the criticism. This section was poorly written and not terrbly to the point. I have changed things around to focus on the main criticisms of biofuels from an environmental perspective -- little net carbon gain and habitat destruction, especially in tropical regions. I haven't had a chance to cite them, but will. In any case, I thinkt the article benefits from removal of the section on specific impacts of monoculture-based agriculture, if someone wants to find a way to incorporate that information more succinctly, I'm with you. I also changed "ecoloical impact" to "environmental impact" -- those are not synonyms and need to be consistently distinguished. 11:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)Envirocorrector