User talk:Hotcop2/Archive 1

Hi My name is Lucy, I wanted to let you know of a correction the the May Pang Page but cannot access the discussion as it is locked.

According to May Pang's book, John and May lived in TOGETHER LA as follows

Sept 1973 Oct 1973 Nov 1973 Dec 1973 Jan 1974 Feb 1974 March 1974 April 1974

8 months in LA together in May 1974 John returned to NY alone and left May in LA for 4 weeks.

From June 1974, through January 1975 they lived in NY 8 months in NY

This is in May pangs book, I can provide the pages numbers when I get home, I am at work now.

May pang states at least 6 instances of Lennon being drunk and violent, not just the two widely publicised ones. Again I can provide the page numbers her book states this in. Additionally, May cites 4 accounts of John running off with other women that suggest he enagaged in some form of sexual activity.

I am writing here to let you know of these errors as with the war going on over this page I do not want to edit anything and be accused of vandelism. I am letting you as a moderator know of this so that the page can be accurate and factual.

If you would like to, you may email me at LucyLennon4me@yahoo.com if posting these corrections on your page is in any way a rule breaker. I want to be helpful.

May Pang removal

I do not think you want to push for the inclusion of unsourced info in either the May Pang or the John Lennon articles. I have responded on both pages, offering you direction if you wish to bring the matter up to either the good folk at WP:BLP or an admin noticeboard. I would only ask that if you choose to go the latter route, you inform me upon doing so, as I don't typically watchlist that page, and would like the opportunity to respond - if it even becomes necessary to do so. Before you take that step, I urge you to confer with an admin familiar with the policies, and get their feedback. I am not trying to stick it to you, bud. I won't allow anyone to add uncitable cruft into an article whose provenance is shaky at best.
Let me know if I can be of any further assistance to expanding your wiki knowledge base. :) - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 03:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, as per your email, I am responding here, as it might assist others in understanding what sort of stringent citations are necessary for a BLP. The Larry Kane book, Lennon Revealed is prefaced by the author himself, in a nod to the idea that his recollections may not be pure or accurate:

"My reporting of Lennon and his adult life will no doubt vary from others," Kane aptly notes, "but it is mine." (1)

By his own words, he has removed himself from being consdered reliable. With that, we are forced to look at the references he provides in his book. By following those citations, we can certainly cite at least some of the statements made in his book (avoind those endnotes that recount a personal discussion that cannot be verified). What we are looking for here are newspaper articles, interviews and the like.
And to reiterate on this end, while the only person disparaged int he article is May Pang, it is - by Wikipedia's strictly enforced policies - one person too many. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 04:22, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Nowhere Man

"He's as blind as he can be, just sees what he wants to see, isn't he a bit like you"

Larry Kane isn't removing himself from being reliable. As one of the few biographers he actually knew him, he's saying that his unique insider's status differs from other biographers, which it does. Hotcop2 13:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I realize that you are new to Wikipedia and all, but please follow the idea that your responses shouldn't be the beginning of a new subject, but instead should follow the natural pattern of a conversation. Jeez, if you don't know these things, you can save ypurself a lot of time and embarrassment and just ask.

I am not saying that Larry Kane doesn't offer a unique perspective. Citations from him are to be considered noteworthy, but not exclusive. I am just pointing out that he himnself notes that his perspective might be skewed by his proximity to the subject. I also pointed out that seeking other perspectives is not only the intelligent thing to do, it is required by wikipedia policy.

Lastly, the actual line from the song is:

"He's as blind as he can be, just sees what he wants to see, isn't he a bit like you and me."

I can see why you chose to avoid including it. Nowhere Man, indeed. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 16:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Now you're disparaging Larry Kane

Hotcop2 13:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

No, disparaging would be like calling you an ass clown for not being able to see reason enough to create a better article about Lennon and Pang. Since I am not really into disparagement, I wouldn't say that. I feel that Larry Kane cannot be the only source you use, for the reasons noted above and before on other pages. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 16:24, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

POV

I used other sources, all of which you deem unacceptable. Larry Kane, the most recent, is the only biographer to really explore this period and is the only person who has ever had both Yoko Ono and May Pang talk about it. By the way, Ms. Pang's autobiography, Loving John, was her memoire. For you to decide it's an incredulous "tell-all" is pretty opinionated for this venue (not that I believe it's you who thinks that way). Finally, the instamatickarma site is up. the "coming soon" refers to the book, not the website. 18:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Sigh, I see you aren't really one of those folk who learn things quickly, or take criticism well (referring to your rather incorrect method of thinking your responses within a single conversation deserve their very own new subject header). Because of that, this is probably going to be my last post to your User Talk page, barring some grand display of ineptness on your part (which I actually hope isn't forthcoming).

I am not sure what sources you supplied, but if they were from IMDB or some fanblog or whatnot, then no, I wouldn't have accepted them. Perhaps you should bring these "sources" to the discussion area. As for Pang's book, most autobiographies are two parts wishful thinking to 1 part fact. It has not gone unnoticed that you seem hesitant to bring the references from her book to the Discussion page for the article. Might it be that there aren't any? If so, then that makes her book a single source. And as her book is a primary citation of facts, we need confirmation of that. The same issue arises with Larry Kane's book as well. It isn't called opinion to evaluate them this way; its called policy. If you do not like it, I will repeat my suggestion that you work to change BLP policy.

Lastly, the website is not active, and gives no information. As such, providing an external link to an inactive site is not encyclopedic. When it does become active, it can be added again. Not before then.

I hope that clarifies matter for you. I won't be responding here, so please direct any future comments to the Discussion Page for the article. I am kinda tired of trying to educate those who would rather not learn. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 19:59, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

300

I reverted your addition of citation-needed tags to the lead section of 300 (film) because it is not imperative to equip them with references. The lead section is a concise overview of the article, which is adequately referenced. From what I've seen, one may reference an item in the lead section if it is potentially controversial. Also, can I please suggest that you refrain from personally attacking Arcayne? Wikipedia is not a battleground; we are all here to contribute knowledge for the benefit of all, and information should be verifiable. If you have an issue with Arcayne's conduct in terms of tagging items that need citations, please have a civil discussion with him on his talk page. Let me know if you have any other concerns! —Erik (talk • contrib) - 14:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm following Arcayne's lead from the May Pang page, in which he insists that every other word be "citated" -- One cannot have a civil conversation with him, as evidenced by the talk history (that is the talk history that hasn't re-edited or deleted by Mr. Arcayne) so I must insist that all these articles follow the same strigent guidelines. I'm sorry if I appear unreasonable, and I'm not attacking Arcayne, I'm just "citing" his standards.

You are not "citing" his standards in good faith; you are doing it with attitude. Please do try to start over and initiate a new discussion with him. I will speak to him as well to see if both of you can't renew this with a clean slate and just discuss objectively the merits (or lack thereof) of each other's contributions. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 16:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)