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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by AdDzer86 (talk | contribs) at 21:18, 11 April 2008 (→Page Overhaul). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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  1. /Archive 4(Mar 08)

Markreidyhp has developed a navigation template whose title is virtually unreadable against the green background. Perhaps a lighter shade of green would work. Several of the redlinks have been un-created for a long time and should probably be excluded until actually created. I am adding a link to Category:Ireland articles needing images. ww2censor (talk) 13:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure that it was created in good faith, but at this stage, the template is not helping, so I have removed it. Apart from the legibility problems, its location half way down the page below the table of contents makes it too inaccessible to be helpful. Maybe a horizontal template at the top might work? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed

Cleaned up the red links and put in a lighter shade of green.I was going to do it this morning but had to go to my place of learning before I could !!!!!!So Stop Patronizing me!!!!!Markreidyhp 16:35, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mark, I really wasn't intending to patronise you, and I'm very sorry if anything I said came across that way. The way we do things on wikipedia is that when people have concerns, we stop and discuss things to try to reach consensus. Please can we discuss this?
I have removed the template again, because now it has moved the table of contents down to an inaccessible place, and I still think that a horizontal template would be a better way to go. I also don't like the use of the flag; flags tend to be divisive in Ireland and there is a general tendency on wikipedia to limit their use. As you may have noticed, the projects templates use a map instead, and that's a better way to go. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
fine i'll put a map instead of a flag. but i don't know how to change it to a horizontal navigation box. Markreidyhp 18:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Try starting here and here to find something suitable to copy. ww2censor (talk) 18:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Made another one

Here it is!!

If you except it i will move it off my user subpage and onto its own template page, unless you don't want me too.Markreidyhp 12:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've made some stylistic changes ,looks good Gnevin (talk) 11:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Dublin

A stub page has been started at Wikipedia:WikiProject Dublin.

I have no objection in principle, but when WikiProject Ireland has such poor participation rates, a subproject seems to me to be superfluous. The editor who created it is obviously keen to work on Dublin stuff, which is great and should be warmly encouraged, but a new project seems to me to be wrong approach at this time.

However, it does remind me that we do need to do some urgent work on improving the participation rates in Irish wikiprojects, and maybe User:Markreidyhp (who created the new project) would like to work with us on reinvigorating this project? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Markreidyhp did you even consider making a proposal for this at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals. Often this type of request is met with the suggestion it should be a Task Force of the main WikiProject. The proposal page also allows other editors to indicate their interest and see if such a suggestion is a viability in the first place. Let's see how many people step up to the plate. What is the scope of the project in terms of possible current articles? That number will determine a lot, because if it is low then a stand-alone project seems overkill. Good luck. ww2censor (talk) 17:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Russian Wiki, Irish Towns project

I received the following message but my Irish language skills are a horrorshow. (Although it really is a straight proposition not needing much in the way of such skills.) Sure, I certainly have an opinion on the subject of which names for them to use but I figure it would good for Obersachse to have wider input from interested parties from this project. (I'm actually a tad puzzled why I alone seem to have been chosen for input by Obersachse since my work on Irish related articles is far from my primary WP focus.) Slán, Pigman☿ 19:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Hi Pigman! We've created Project Ireland in the russian section of Wikipedia. We plan to create (supported by a bot) articles about all irish towns and villages on the base of the english Wikipedia. Now we are thinking about the names of the articles. It would be political correctly to transliterate the irish (gaelic) names. On the other hand, english language is common used in Ireland and it's much more easier for us to take the english pronouncation. Most of us understand english, but only some linguists can read irish words. What would you propose us to do? --Obersachse (talk) 18:36, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, my tuppence worth: most Irish villages, towns and suburbs have their primary legal name in English - but most also do have an Irish form, and while some of these are bad modern inventions, most have real history behind them, and local support. "Political correctness" has no place here but I think a good and simple approach to recommend would be:

- for names of places outside the Gaeltacht, the English name with the Irish form in brackets - for names of places inside the Gaeltacht, the Irish name with the English form in brackets

It sounds a very worthy and interesting project. What will the Russian team use as sources - the "Towns and Villages in County X" series? SeoR (talk) 12:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with SeoR here. Irish may be the native language of Ireland, but it's not native like Italian is in Italy, or Greek is in Greece. Irish is not after all the first language of any but a small minority of modern Irish people, and the only de facto national language of Ireland today is English. Are there even any rules for Irish-Russian transliteration? Anyways, those other theoretical points aside, the rules on en.wiki to follow usage are good IMHO. Just go with whatever forms are actually used in Russian. If that's no good, then assume any Russophone looking for more info in another language would turn to literature in English rather than literature in Irish. Best, Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 21:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In most instances Irish language names would fail WP:COMMONNAME. Let me see if I can point you to a legal list of towns. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 00:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Greater Cork and Metropolitan Cork

The articles Greater Cork and Metropolitan Cork cover the same topic, but "Metropolitan Cork" seems to be the term used in official documents.

See merge proposal at Talk:Metropolitan Cork#Proposed_merger_from_Greater_Cork — it would be great if someone had the energy to do the merger. It's not a simple redirect job, because the article have differing strengths and weaknesses and some checking of the sources will be needed, but there do seem to be enough sources already included to create a reasonable article. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see from the above there is a discussion section at WP:IE , would it make sense to redirect it to here or Wikipedia talk:Irish Wikipedians' notice board to it as they both have the same scope and goals ?Gnevin (talk) 13:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I support this merger. It would be good if more users with an interest in Irish topics used the same discussion forum. Redking7 (talk) 20:41, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also support this, as somebody who is newish to things Irish on Wikipedia, there was a fair amount of confusion in my head as to where to go, would be good if most (if not all) was in one place Perryn (talk) 22:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would support the merger if it was a merger to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland. It would make no sense to have discussion removed from a wikiproject, but a noticeboard can remain just that -- a noticeboard. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have to agree with BHG. Not all Irish Wikipedians are members of WikiProject Ireland, though many may be interested in both, but the Project deals with all Irish related articles while Irish Wikipedians may not be interested in all Irish articles, so let's reveres the suggestion. ww2censor (talk) 01:36, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My reading BHG is in favour of merging here to WP:IE , BHG can you clarify? Gnevin (talk) 08:57, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Will merge these two on the 7th of this month if not one else disagrees, so speak now of forever hold your pieceGnevin (talk) 07:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I support. Scolaire (talk) 16:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on British Isles moved from News section of notice board

  • In the interests of NPOV, I changed the opening paragraph of British Isles to read The British Isles is a controversial name relating to a group of islands to indicate that the name is not accepted by many people (therefore it's a controversial name). I think this is the best way to introduce the term to those that come to wikipedia to learn. Bardcom (talk) 20:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You just beat me to it here. Users might want to drop over to that page, where (again) certain users are determined to state as fact that Ireland is the British Isles with the fact that many Irish people disagree being relegated to later on, as if to say 'factually Ireland is in the British Isles, but the Irish have a problem with it.' FearÉIREANN\(caint) 22:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There will probably be debate about the exact phrasing of how many people object - the one case that made the news was when Folens dropped the phrase from an atlas due to a complaint. On the one hand, it could be said that the use of the phrase in the atlas until so recently was an indicator of lack of widespread strong objections - on the other hand, it could be said that the publisher thought that the issue was important enough meant that the publisher felt there were enough people who objected to make commercial sense to change. In short, the exact figures aren't clear, most of the evidence is anecdotal (e.g. Kevin Myers' opinion column) and I'm sure there will be arguments about the exact phrasing, though it's important to mention that it is an issue for some. Autarch (talk) 09:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Should articles such as Celtic Christianity have an info box which reads "Part of a series on History of Christianity in the British Isles"? I raised the issue at Template talk:History of British Christianity without effect. ClemMcGann (talk) 21:09, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It shouldn't - it's unnecessary. Bardcom (talk) 19:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure - I tend to avoid such arguments on the ground that they generate more heat than light and rarely convice anyone on either side of the dispute. Autarch (talk) 17:14, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
True
They changed it to "Part of a series on History of Christianity in Great Britain"
I don't know which is worse ClemMcGann (talk) 20:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's still the 1st of April, so I'm hoping that labels like the one Clem has pointed out will vanish tomorrow. (I'm also hoping that a flying pig will bring me a winning lottery ticket). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My compliments. Next question: should it be on Catholic Emancipation? - ClemMcGann (talk) 23:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's a better case for having it there, since the crucial steps were all Acts of the Westminster Parliament. But its impact was most significant in Ireland, so I have moved {{IrishN}} above it. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nice diplomacy. well done ClemMcGann (talk) 23:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Use of the term British Isles in articles

This discussion on Talk:British Isles#Use of the term British Isles in Articles may be of interest to some here. Bardcom (talk) 15:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Page titles

Should clubs with a saints name such as Saint Vincents GAA be at Saint Vincent's GAA with a '? Gnevin (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article's title should be the club's title. According to their website, Saint Vincents doesn't have an apostrophe in its name, so the article name is correct as it stands. Scolaire (talk) 16:26, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But there should be a redirect from the apostrophised form of the name. I'll create one now. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But the club does not expand St to Saint. Neither does anyone else - county board, newspapers, TV. The naming conventions suggest to me that because it is almost exclusively known as St Vincents GAA, then that is where the article should stand. Saint Vincents GAA should be the redirect. Crispness (talk) 19:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good call, Crispness! I missed that. Scolaire (talk) 19:31, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article rescue

I think we could do with an "article rescue" section here, and as a starting point here's two articles:

There is already a category for that Ireland articles needing attention currently lists 280 articles and the articles are listed there based on using the parameter in the assessment template. Will that work for you. We might need to promote the category somewhere within the project so that others might get involved in making some improvements. ww2censor (talk) 02:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I thought of the category, and should have mentioned it. The difficulty with it is that it's just a bare listing of articles, so it doesn't give editors much of an idea of what needs to be fixed.
I thought that a listings section might might provide an easy entry point for editors wanting to get involved, and we really do need to get more ppl involved in this project.
I just spotted a slightly difft example: Eastern Bypass of Dublin, currently a new sub-stub. An eastern bypass has been a key goal of Dublin road-planners since the early 1970s, attracts lots of opposition as well as equally diehard supporters, and it is still on the cards. There will be tons of sources available, and if we had somewhere prominent in this project to list this sort of potentially-great-article, it would be another great entry point for editors to get stuck into. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We definitely need to get people involved. Maybe if we list the above articles needing attention in the Tasks section with some specific details, along with a the category link. That might be good start as well as advertise it at the Irish Wikipedian's noticeboard. ww2censor (talk) 03:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think we should merge the Eastern bypass with this other stub? Crispness (talk) 07:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I you did you would have to change the name but I think that it would better fit with the Dublin Bay ArticleMarkreidyhp 17:02, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WPI Template

Whats the WPI template? If I did know i would do as it says on the Wikiproject homepage and make it like WP:AU's one.Markreidyhp 17:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Mark, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you explain more?--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
this is what i'm talking about:

Modify WPI template so that it follows the hierarchy structure found in Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia. :Add the {{WikiProject Ireland}} template to all Ireland-related articles' talk pages, without engaging in too much templatomania.

N.B. - please do not substitute the template, as any future changes to the template will not be updated automatically. :On top of this, a substituted inclusion will not appear on the :list of links that provides a :gauge for the size of the WikiProject and ultimately all articles within the WikiProject (and does not include any non-relevant pages).
Do you mean with WP:AUSTRALIA's subprojects such as Australian sports, Australian law etc?
If so, it's a lovely idea in theory, but in practice it would only be useful to create subprojects if there are enough editors maintain active projects in those fields. Unfortunately, WikiProject Ireland is understaffed, WP Irish maritime has one or two wonderfully dedicated editors but that's all, WikiProject Northern Ireland has little activity, etc. There is no point in creating sub-projects until this one has many more active participants. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind. I've already figured it out.Markreidyhp 06:43, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that someone has already done it now... although I don't see any difference in the template itself.Prehaps someones has changed the script?Markreidyhp 14:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anthony Trollope

Could Anthony Trollope be added to this project, especially because of Anthony Trollope#Time in Ireland. I will update more of the connections of his works with Ireland, but I think it would be nice if he was added, especially in regards to his respectful treatment of Ireland. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And William Molyneux too! :) Ottava Rima (talk) 21:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am well aware of Trollope time in Ireland and have added an assessment template to the talk page; B-class/low-importance. Trollope was responsible for bringing the Ashworth pillar boxes to Ireland and one of them still exists in the National Museum. In fact I was jointly responsible creating a report and proposal for the Museum director to refurbish it and put it on display again back in the early-1990s after it had been languishing in store in Daingean, County Offaly, for many years. BTW assessment requests are usually made here. ww2censor (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Its not so much an assessment request as an asking for people from this project to participate on the page itself. There are many "Irish" pages that get very little attention, because they aren't widely known as being "Irish" or are outside of common acknowledgement. The 18th and 19th century pages tend to get ignored a lot. :) Ottava Rima (talk) 22:04, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, when an article is assessed then it can be less difficult to find, unless you actually know him and are looking out for him. Mind you there are indeed many pages that are neglected after the initial spurt. It sometimes seems that some people prefer arguing and edit warring than constructively editing. To me your phraseology did not really request participation, but I will see what my sources can add to Trollope. With some work this could even become an FA. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 23:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Page Overhaul

I've made a new version of the WikiProject:Ireland home page that you can find it at this address Please Do NOT delete it!!!!!!!Markreidyhp 15:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC) Here is what it will look like!!! User:Markreidyhp/sandbox/wpie[reply]

I LOVE the User:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox I particularly like the Map and greenness of it all!!!!Davxs (talk) 19:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ditto I think that User:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox look's awesome!!AdDzer86 (talk) 19:45, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
User:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox does look good I agree , i don't prefer User:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox2 or a {{Irishnoticeboard}}Gnevin (talk) 16:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll remove the User:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox if you want so long as the page is accepted or nobody else wants it removedMarkreidyhp 06:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If nobody object i'am going to change the page on Saturday 7:00 UTC or 8:00pm Irish time.Markreidyhp 14:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't like it either. This one, User:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox2, might work, so long as it does not get overloaded. It should only have the most important links. I think it should normally be in a collapsed state. ww2censor (talk) 14:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(contribs) 17:17, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please talk about the the navbox that I created on it's user talk sub page.NOT HERE! THIS IS FOR DISCUSSEING THE PAGE OVERHAULMarkreidyhp 19:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The Orginal Navbox Talk Page
User talk:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox
The New Navbox Talk Page
User talk:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox2
I don't like the green in the templates, much to bright for my liking. User:Markreidyhp/wpie navbox2 is a little bit overloaded, but could work with some reduction.
I also don't like it if my comments get removed from here as this is very bad style. The comments about the navboxes are on topic here, as I don't want to see them on the projectpage in the current form (why do we have to change the page anyhow?). The discussion should also be in one place and not in split over several places. And Markreidyhp, you don't have to shout if you are talking here. --Mdebets (talk) 20:24, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

<outdent>This page doesn't need a page overhaul. If someone wants to add a navbox somewhere, then fine. Lets have a proposal. But please do not do anything else to the project page. Thanks. Crispness (talk) 19:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC) Then why do this page say on Major Pending tasks to overhaul this page??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Markreidyhp 19:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Class Template man!!! I wonder could you post it on my page I've already made some room(I don't like long pages) Dylman78 (talk) 19:54, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea! Could Markreidyhp do the same on this page Here. AdDzer86 (talk) 20:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ALRIGHT!!Thanks for the Article ManAdDzer86 (talk) 20:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto the page looks awesome!!! Dylman78 (talk) 20:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The last two comments seem to be sock puppets of Markreidyhp --Mdebets (talk) 21:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So how's the page over-haul going? I think the new page is way better!(especially the VERTICAL navbox!). I also think we should overhaul the page ASAP so people can start to contribute because very soon the "new page " will become out-dated because there will be new posts and more articles and we would have to start from scratch and I for one (I've all ways wanted to say that!!) do not want THAT to happen WHO AGREES?Davxs (talk) 21:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I DO I think that Davxs is TOTALLY and Completely right! Dylman78 (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC) I DO Dylman78 and Davxs ARE RIGHT!!!!!! AdDzer86 (talk) 21:18, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural_cringe

Anyone ever hear of this and more important this Cultural_cringe#Ireland?Gnevin (talk) 16:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reminds me of this, the Scottish cringe. Our two countries just have everything in common! ;) Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 16:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Scottish cringe is what linked me to Cultural_cringe#Ireland but the whole thing seems to be WP:NOR Gnevin (talk) 16:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Look, it doesn't really matter. The source of modern culture is basically from Italy. The British (English) copied much of their culture from the French, the Dutch, the Germans, and the Spanish. Ireland and Scotland has had a huge influence on British culture. And now British culture is being influenced greatly by American culture. Even in my short lifetime, I can see it, being a child of the 60s. Culture just flows around like mercury, and Britain (English), is more influenced than influencing. Old cultures like Scotland, Wales and Ireland have more impact on the modern ethos than is realised. Stuffy plastic culture has nothing to offer, but older cultures are now saving and adding to humanity, I'm sure. -78.19.75.148 (talk) 00:00, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is this all just psychobabble? Won't we all be turning Chinese in a few years time? Everybody will be Kung-fu fighting....Sarah777 (talk) 06:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Is this all just psychobabble?". No, guinnessbabble! LOL. 78.19.4.75 (talk) 11:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What should the MOS template look like

I don't get it.What should the MOS template look like. Where would you put it??Markreidyhp 07:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm quite lost , can we keep all these page/template ideas together? Gnevin (talk) 11:55, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

okMarkreidyhp 14:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mark, I'm not sure what you mean by "the MOS template". Please, if you want advice from others, can you explain more precisely what you mean and supply any necessary links? Thanks! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Irish literature

I think that this WikiProject should be merged with this one as Wikipedia:WikiProject Irish literature is dead.MarkreidyhpFile:Free-tibetlogo.jpg 19:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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