Talk:Public image of Barack Obama
Should someone mention his role in America. I see lots of Barack Obama pop art material in places. --Spikeleefan (talk) 03:44, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Overseas
Of course there is a huge controversy over his 200,000 listeners at a rally in Berlin, but I keep hearing about how he's immensely popular in Europe. I saw in an article on WP once (forgot which one) which provied poll data about how Europeans are rooting for him to win. This should be included in here. I know I should be bold but I really don't have the time to add this in myself. conman33 (. . .talk) 04:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Obama, Religion, and Redundancy
Obama converted to Christianity under the tutelage of Jeremiah Wright. This is a huge deal for him in his life story, as communicated in interviews and his autobiography. Striking this from the article is improper. And, after we establish that Obama is a Christian, it becomes redundant and in poor form to go on to say "incorrect belief". That's a given. Trilemma (talk) 20:33, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
- The section is meant to describe Obama's cultural and political image with respect to his religion. It is not meant to cover all aspects of his religious beliefs and church habits. Please confine the details to the actual subject, and avoid adding any unnecessary stuff that is better covered elsewhere. -- Scjessey (talk) 21:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
- His relationship with Jeremiah Wright, his church habits, etc. are all part of his cultural and political image. Trilemma (talk) 23:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
- No they aren't. They are part of his personal life, not his public image. Please note the title of the article. -- Scjessey (talk) 00:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- His personal life is inextricably intertwined with his cultural and political image. Have you read the version for John McCain? Please do so. Trilemma (talk) 03:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- I do not edit articles based on what other articles do, because that can mean lowering the standards of Wikipedia to the lowest common denominator. It is not "inextricably intertwined" - as evidenced by the fact that we have successfully managed to extricate it. This section is about the Muslim/Christian issue, not about his association with Jeremiah Wright (which is covered at length elsewhere). -- Scjessey (talk) 12:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- Excuse me but it is not our role as editors to 'extricate' public life from personal life. This article is to report on the cultural and political image of Obama, and his relationship with Jeremiah Wright is a part of that image. Trilemma (talk) 13:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- Nor is it our role as editors to 'conflate' personal life with public life. My complaint here is not that his relationship with Jeremiah Wright should be excluded. It is about the relevancy of that relationship in the context of the public perception that he is a Muslim. Consider these two sentences as an example of what I mean:
- John Doe is an omnivore because he has been seen eating meat products, but public perception is that he is a vegetarian.
- John Doe is an omnivore because he has been seen eating meat products, such as the Double Whopper with cheese and bacon he had at Burger King, but public perception is that he is a vegetarian.
- If we assume the "Double Whopper consumption" is adequately covered elsewhere, it is redundant information in this context - even jarring. The same is true with the attempt to shoehorn Wright into the section, because that relationship is not relevant in this context and it is better described elsewhere - perhaps even in a separate paragraph of this section, if necessary. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:44, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- Nor is it our role as editors to 'conflate' personal life with public life. My complaint here is not that his relationship with Jeremiah Wright should be excluded. It is about the relevancy of that relationship in the context of the public perception that he is a Muslim. Consider these two sentences as an example of what I mean:
- Excuse me but it is not our role as editors to 'extricate' public life from personal life. This article is to report on the cultural and political image of Obama, and his relationship with Jeremiah Wright is a part of that image. Trilemma (talk) 13:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- I do not edit articles based on what other articles do, because that can mean lowering the standards of Wikipedia to the lowest common denominator. It is not "inextricably intertwined" - as evidenced by the fact that we have successfully managed to extricate it. This section is about the Muslim/Christian issue, not about his association with Jeremiah Wright (which is covered at length elsewhere). -- Scjessey (talk) 12:36, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- His personal life is inextricably intertwined with his cultural and political image. Have you read the version for John McCain? Please do so. Trilemma (talk) 03:02, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- No they aren't. They are part of his personal life, not his public image. Please note the title of the article. -- Scjessey (talk) 00:27, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- His relationship with Jeremiah Wright, his church habits, etc. are all part of his cultural and political image. Trilemma (talk) 23:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Request for Comment
Currently, this article is practically a hagiography. A user as refused to allow mention of Jeremiah Wright in the article, specifically in the race and culture section, despite the huge controversy and the resulting impact it had on Obama's image, as it doesn't meet his standard of 'public life.' Trilemma (talk) 13:24, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose the wording of this RfC as being grossly misleading. The article mentions Wright with a wikilink to the entire separate article about him. An elaboration here that complied with all Wikipedia policies could be considered for inclusion, but what Trilemma has tried to insert is the assertion that "Obama, previously non-religious, became a Christianity in the 1980s, under Jeremiah Wright" -- violating WP:BLP, WP:RS, WP:NPOV, and probably a few other policies. JamesMLane t c 16:39, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- I'll be happy to provide the relevant quotes from Obama's books. And a redirect above the article simply does not cut it. There's no discussion of how the Wright controversy affected Obama's cultural and political image, which is the subject of this article. Trilemma (talk) 13:40, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
- Obama's relationship with Wright, and how that affects his cultural and political image, should be in a separate paragraph. It his nothing to do with the perception that he is a Muslim. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
- Agree that the Wright and Muslim controversies are distinct and should be covered in seperate paragraphs. AzureFury (talk) 16:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
- I'll be happy to provide the relevant quotes from Obama's books. And a redirect above the article simply does not cut it. There's no discussion of how the Wright controversy affected Obama's cultural and political image, which is the subject of this article. Trilemma (talk) 13:40, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
NOTE that an RfC is supposed to be written in a neutral manner (Please read WP:RfC for a further explanation of this rule). This is simply one editor's POV commentary written in the style of an RfC, but doesn't seem to be a legitimate request for comment. --Loonymonkey (talk) 00:57, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
- I sadly have to agree and hope the editor of the RFC will rephrase it in proper style within WP-guidelines since s/he had not obeyed them in the past even so S/he acted in good faith. --Floridianed (talk) 05:58, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Article
This article is an essay and relevant information should be merged into the main article. It seems that there is a tendency lately in wikipedia to have a navbox with this lame non enciclopedic "articles".