Talk:Ethnomethodology

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Useful information: Durkheims Aphorism comes from: The Rules of Sociological Method, ed. Steven Lukes (New York, Free Press 1895), S.45): "Very often the disagreements were due to the refusal to admit at all, or to admit with reservations, our basic principle, that of the objective reality of social facts. It is therefore upon this principle that in the end everything rests, and everything comes back to." - via an ethnomethodological mailing list. --Vintagesound 10:48, 14 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Fine description of ethnomethodolgy

As an early fan of ethnomethodology (without credentials), I found this to be a well-written description of the area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.207.7 (talk) 15:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

CITATIONS NEEDED?

This article has far more citations than the Wikipedia entries for "Symbolic Interactionism", "Structural Functionalism", and/or "Social Psychology" - yet only Structural Functionalism has a red flag; that article contains no in-line citations or pagination. The latter half of the entry for "Sociology" dealing with modern versions of Sociology has only one citation. THIS ARTICLE NOW CONTAINS 46 CITATIONS. We would humbly submit that this is now the best documented site on Wikipedia dealing with the social sciences.

The above statement is quite accurate, and I have removed the 'citations missing' template. In future, when you see that an article contains an inappropriate template, you can always remove it yourself. Terraxos (talk) 05:28, 12 September 2008 (UTC).[reply]

However the citations are very confusing. What format is this? (Author:Year)? (Not Chicago, APA, or AAA) And why, when Garfinkel and Rawls is being cited, is the ref to Garflinkel:2002, which is co-authored? --Reagle (talk) 17:46, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ASA (Author:Year:Page). To the best of my knowledge, the Rawls bits are authored by Rawls, as appearing in Garfinkel. The text is credited to Garfinkel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ASchutz (talk • contribs) 02:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WHY IS ETHNOMETHODOLOGY SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND?

There are a number of reasons why ethnomethodology is so difficult to understand: [1] there is no unified ethnomethodological theory; [2] there is no agreed upon ethnomethodological method; [3] there are no independent criteria, other than that of authority, for the evaluation of ethnomethodological studies; [4] Garfinkel's writings are generally impenetrable for the student as they have now become so complex in terms of references that reading all of the sources referenced has becomes increasingly unrealistic; [5] Garfinkel's writings are generally impenetrable for the professional sociologist as they are counterintuitive relative to his/her training; [6] Garfinkel's writings are inconsistent in their use of terminology and formulation; [7] Garfinkel's writing style is completely idiosyncratic and convoluted to the point of being occaisionally incoherent - despite his adherents defense, there is really no excuse for this type of prose style; [8] references are made to authors who are generally outside of the general mainstream of sociology; [9] references to outside authors in philosophy are not to their systems, but to fragments of their systems, resulting in confusion as to how far ethnomethodology's use of these authors ideas extends to the rest of their theoretical systems; [10] ethnomethodologists rarely, if ever, provide critical commentary on Garfinkel's writings in fear of earning his displeasure and being deleted from the periodic lists of "approved" ethnomethodologists appearing in his texts; [11] ethnomethodology as a policy eschews discussion of theory, and hence any discussion of theoretical foundations; [12] ethnomethodology denies that it has a methodology of its own, thus avoiding having to work out a methodology of its own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ASchutz (talk • contribs) 14:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)````[reply]

ethno-method-o-logy

Wouldn’t it be more correct to say that the three roots are ethnos, methodos and logos? I am not really sure about this, but if this is the case, than it would make more sense the split the word into the three parts ethno-methodo-logy. Wouldn’t it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ozean (talk • contribs) 21:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ethno-method-ology. Trying to keep it in simple, colloquial English. If you must change it go with your second formulation. My concern is the misleading implications of the "logy" part - look it up in an English dictionary before you change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.221.218 (talk) 17:32, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The "Problem of Order"

What is the "Problem of Order", and exactly whose problem is it? Locate the class origins of this question and you have located the essence of traditional, mainstream sociology. Thomas Hobbes, from whom the concept emanates, was a Royalist during the English Revolution [17th cent.], fled England after Charles I was beheaded, and returned to England as a supporter of Charles II after the restoration of the monarchy.

Hobbes was by no stretch of the imagination a social democrat. His major interest, like the other social contract theorists of the time [Locke, etc.], was to provide a "secular" rationalization for maintaing the established power relationships [social order] of the time - and his place in that social order.

The problem of order in modern sociology [Parsons and his derivitives] manifests itself in the discipline's obsession with mechanism of social engineering: conformity, social control, and deviance. Even questions of social integration [racial, ethnic, class] are framed from the perspective of legitimizing the existing social order, not changing it.

Garfinkel's writing style: "Ethnomethodologist's tend..."

The question is: how do you know this? Did you do a survey of all ethnomethodologists? I would suggest that in the absence of any supporting data to support this formulation, you revert to the original sentence construction.

Please do not delete the comments of others on the talk page. For talk page policy see: Talk_page_guidelines#Editing_comments. In a case like this (where the comment has been addressed and the entry seems to be not necessary anymore), you might just want to reply to the comment with a comment of your own, e.g. something like “This has been addressed in today’s revision.” This would make the history of this article easier to understand.

In addition to this comment about talk page policy in general, I would also like to reformulate the original writer’s comment and generalize it to apply it to the whole article: I think the edits made by the two/three anonymous IPs (161.185.xxx.xxx, 68.198.221.218 and the “late” ASchutz) are really enhancing the quality of this article. I am deeply impressed by the amount of work that you invest for this article. However, the style of the article often seems strange for an encyclopedia. Formulations like the above “Ethnomethodologist's tend”, or others like “We use these authors rather than Garfinkel”, “Note that…” suggest some (authoritative, insider) person lecturing/teaching those who read the article. I think it would enhance the quality of the article if these kinds of statements could be evaded/changed. If I read the entry like it is now, it sounds more like an article for a journal, written by some ominous insider figure that claims particularly close insight into the workings and relations of those who do EM. I do not want to interrupt your work on the article, therefore I did not make any edits – in particular because there seems to be a team at work here. Since this team is so productive, I don't want to break the workflow.

The article has been enriched by many helpful citations – however, on some critical statements (critical because they express judgements), no source or (that would be the alternative) reason is given. An outstanding example is “Garfinkel's writing style has been described by some as abstruse, convoluted, and obscure in terms of both meaning and reference. Others have maintained that it is adequate to the task at hand, and unavoidable given the phenomena being described. Some maintain that it has gotten better over time, others maintain that it has gotten worse. Most have given up such arguments and accepted it for what it is.” I agree with the statement and I find the conclusion quite witty and entertaining, but I also find this problematic because it differs so greatly from what is the commonly accepted style of wikipedia. (And as ethnomethodologists we all know about member’s rules…)

Finally, I want say once more that this comment is intended as sympathetic feedback for the two anonymous editors and User:ASchutz. By the way: I sometimes have a hard time keeping in mind which number/person does what kind of edits - why don’t you register an account [1] at the wikipedia and use it to submit you edits? That would make keeping track for all involved much easier! --ozean (talk) 16:24, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GENERALIZABILITY OF FINDINGS BETWEEN SETTINGS

According to orthodox Garfinkelian doctrine, are the "findings" of a particular ethnomethodological study generalizable to other settings, even those for "the same" activity, even when conducted in "the same" physical setting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.185.150.188 (talk) 20:38, 30 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]