Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kriss Perras Running Waters

Kriss Perras Running Waters

I am also nominating the following related pages:

Non-notable film industry worker. All movies appear to be self-released and occurring some time in the future. Fails WP:N, WP:CRYSTAL, WP:CORP, and WP:MOVIE. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 03:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all for a multitude of reasons. IMDB is not a valid source on it's own, as entries are user-submitted. Too many "credits" are unreleased films too far into the future to escape crystalballism. "Continuity Supervisor" is an inherently non-notable position. There are no independent sources whatsoever. DarkAudit (talk) 04:00, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all Darkaudit said most of it for me but I can add by saying that hits on google suggest no notabilty whatsoever §hawn poo 04:58, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I do not agree at all with the comments made above - the films have notable film industry names associated with the productions and seem to be going through the same process as all films, a very slow gaining of industry support. The film "Fard Ayn" has Chase Brandon associated with it in the IMDb, and he wrote the film "The Recruit" and has worked with Ridley Scott, among other notable Hollywood types. Maybe you should call him and ask if he is involved - his number is easy to come by here it is at the CIA. He is the film liaison at the CIA - I did call him before about something else I am in the film industry, just not part of these projects)... Fard Ayn also has Henry Mortensen credited with the film. Same with the film Tiananmen Square. The film First Canyon Rain is a short and is likely to be produced by the director's company, as almost all shorts are made that way. It seems the person who wrote the comment above is not at all knowledgeable about how the film industry works and made a challenge that is not even at all credible. It is not easy to get credits into IMDb - there is a verification process a project must go through to get into IMDb. So if the films made into the IMDb, they're credible projects. Plus I've seen the projects Fard Ayn and Tiananmen Square listed in the Hollywood Reporter too. It is also hard to get a film listed in the Hollywood Reporter's production listings. There is a similar verification process a film must go through to get into that magazine. I'm the person who listed the projects into Wikipedia and am not affiliated with the films, and I updated the director's film page beuase I noticed it was not acurate with the IMDb and had some rude comments on the page that also did not seem accurate. I researched the projects prior to putting anything into Wikipedia. I thought it was cool Henry Mortensen was making his first debut in a leading role of a short and noticed the production company had many other films listed in the IMDb. Maybe you should research like I did before you make such uninformed comments and challenges about film projects. This industry is hard enough without people who do not know anything say things that are inaccurate. I also wonder if the comments made above are the same folks who posted the rude comments on the director's Wikipedia page that I deleted when I rewrote the page. If so the users above should be banned from Wikipedia. WLaccount (talk) 07:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)t —Preceding unsigned comment added by WLaccount (talk • contribs) 06:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - IMDB is not a reliable source per WP:RELIABLE. This article is under reveiw by all of wikipedia, so if it's the community's wishes for it to stay, it will, if not so be it. §hawn poo 07:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Administrative comment. This discussion should focus on the merits, or lack thereof, of the article. It is not the venue for discussing editors' conduct. —C.Fred (talk) 07:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

COMMENT - Holywood Reporter is another source used for these inclusions. I'm very serious - there was vandalism on the director's page I deleted that sounds very much like the comments made by this Gogo Dodo tonight and the person nominating many pages for deletion that involve Henry Mortensen. WLaccount (talk) 07:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Please split the nominations, as they are all different cases. You can't throw a movie, a company and a person into one bucket. Otherwise one could come, merge them into one article and say each of them is one third of notable... --Avant-garde a clue-hexaChord² 07:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

COMMENT - I also do not think a film company or director would create an entire web page and press kit for a project if it was not a credible film - First Canyon Rain has an entire press kit for the project including film posters. It seems the director and Henry Mortensen would have told you by now to delete the film if he wasn't really part of this short and if the film wasn't a credible project. http://www.runningwatersproductions.com/film/firstcanyonrain.html http://www.runningwatersproductions.com/press/first-canyon-rain-press-kit.html WLaccount (talk) 07:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: One should read Talk:Kriss Perras Running Waters. But please leave Henry Mortensen (actor) out of this whole mess. --Avant-garde a clue-hexaChord² 08:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Running Waters Productions since listing nine films in development or pre-development, without a single film finished, is just ridiculous. Dream Focus 10:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note "The film "Fard Ayn" has Chase Brandon associated with it in the IMDb, and he wrote the film "The Recruit" and has worked with Ridley Scott, among other notable Hollywood types. " This line of reasoning doesn't quite work. Notability doesn't inherit to a film just because one of the makers once worked with a notable figure in some capacity. The guideline calls for notable people to be directly associated with the specific production either in front or behind the camera. = Mgm|^(talk) 10:45, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: The "Fard Ayn" film also has Lloyd Ahern II as the DP who was a cinematographer on "Up close and Personal" andon the films "Kicking and Screaming" and "Dodgeball" and "We Were Soldiers" and he is an award winning cinematographer. And so does the "Tiananmen Square" film. Are you any of you guys in the film biz? Having films in pre-production and development are big feats in and of themselves. There is no recognition here for how hard it is just to get a film that far. It is a miracle when any film gets made or progresses along at all. It is a hard business. I did do research on these citations for about two hours, but it seems not worth it to post things in Wikipedia because all that time is lost so easy with no real reason behind it - your actions seem arbitrary

Comment There are standards that any article must satify for inclusion. The first is that there must be reliable, verifiable, third-party sources that are independent of the subject. Let's run down the list, shall we? IMDB. Unreliable, as it's entries are user-submitted. It can be used to check the veracity of other sources, but not as a primary source on it's own. Lime Salted Water refers crew info to IMDB. Cinema Hill lists her name as Script Supervisor, but goes no further. Same for A through M. No trouble there, but nothing considered "notable". Then there's Running Waters Productions. Nothing there is usable. It's her own site. Not third-party, not independent. Absolutely invalid as a source. You seem to be taking this awfully personally for someone claiming to just be someone in the film industry, and accusing other editors of a specific vendetta against this person. Tell me, just WHY would I pick out *this particular woman and this particular article* for attack? DarkAudit (talk) 15:03, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

COMMENT: That is not what I said. I said I did not think it was right to pick out the article I posted with two hours of research using citations and request it for deletion - then leave in the article I requested for deletion that cites no sources whatsoever and claims the person wrote something that is obviously written by the site's owners - in addition the article I requested for deletion was not neutral and rules also say the postings are suppose to be neutral. That is what I'm saying, not whatever it is you think I'm saying. That is is not right. And there seems to be a lot of emphasis and credibility here going into a posting that did not leave a signature nor did they cite any sources - it is all opinion - and yet you seem to think it is credible. That does not say a whole lot about the process that is going on here to determine things. That is the other thing I am saying. Plus to say that IMDb is not a credible source is not right either. IMDb is the main source for films. The postings here cite IMDb can be posted by the user, which might be true, but the film has to meet certain criteria elsewhere that are not posted by the user to be included in IMDb. So being in film gives me a little more insight than what I see going on here is also what I'm saying. This will be my last post as this site has severely disappointed me. I used to consider Wikipedia very good place to read stuff because so many people posted on it, but not any more now that I see what happens on this site.