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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 71.193.11.63 (talk) at 15:22, 19 June 2009 (→Settlers of Catan: Formatting). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Please add new comments in new sections, e.g., by clicking here. Thanks. SarekOfVulcan

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page.

Talib controversy

Ah, you read the Rosser vs. Talib blog items. I never heard of Talib until last week, but found his derivative strategy interesting when I read about it. Then I found out his funds that used the strategy had tanked. (I run Downside, so I follow stuff like that. He did Empirica LLC, which Wikipedia says "was closed in 2004" and the WSJ says "shut down in 2004 after several years of lackluster returns amid a period of low volatility."[1]) I suspect the real problem with that strategy is that options that are way out of the money tend to be technically under-priced until you buy enough of them to be useful; then the price goes up. If that's the case, it's a cute idea theoretically but doesn't work in real trading against other players. No big deal; it's not the first time some quant ran into that problem.

Why Talib and his supporters are losing it isn't clear. Talib's press is generally favorable, and the article approaches puffery. He's not as good as he thinks he is, though, which seems to be the problem. I'll leave that to others to untangle. --John Nagle (talk) 16:39, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What I do?

I'm still perplexed. Domer doesn't delete everybodies messages, yet mine continues to get no response (unless you consider deletion, a response). GoodDay (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:BLANKING, he can delete whatever he wants from his userpage -- including my comments, as well. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I know, a fella's Userpage is his castle. But, it doesn't help collaboration wise. GoodDay (talk) 18:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removing other people's comments

Yes, we do want editors to find it— but not find a biased, "summary." Please move it ALL back, leave as is, or write an unbiased summary--Carlaude talk 19:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you have a problem with the summary, address it here -- don't remove other people's comments. --User talk:SarekOfVulcan

This is my point!

(1) I am not removing other people's comments-- I am keeping comments altogether. These comments already moved, copied, but only these pro-move comments have been left here and there!
(2) Would rather that none of these be moved-- be if they are moved they should all be moved or at least not leave a notice from only one POV. --Carlaude talk 19:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So object on the talkpage, don't censor what you feel to be a biased summary. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia SignpostWikipedia Signpost: 15 June 2009

Delivered by SoxBot (talk) at 12:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Pelham" hatnote

I would have appreciated having an opportunity to comment on the "Pelham" hatnote before any decision was made. The WP:HAT guideline is very clear as to what hatnotes are for. The specific point that indicates that the hatnote in question is not valid can be found at WP:HAT#Disambiguating article names that are not ambiguous. There is practically *no way* for a reader to arrive at The Taking of Pelham One Two Three (1974 film) without meaning to be there. All major variations of the ambiguous title (Taking of Pelham 123, The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3, The Taking of Pelham One Two Three, etc.) lead to the disambiguation page. I specifically told this to Ed Fitzgerald. He has since removed this from his talkpage. This hatnote is not "useful". Nobody is going to type or click on a link that specifically and clearly leads to the 1974 film unless that is where they want to go. All roads that may be taken by someone unsure of where they want to be will lead to the disambiguation page. This hatnote is unnecessary, not helpful and should be removed as the guidlelines indicate. I think Ed has simply gotten the bit between his teeth and is refusing to admit that he is wrong on this.

As for my status, I have a long history of editing on the Wikipedia, but choose to often do simple and obvious cleanup work without bothering to log in. That was the case here. I suppose once he started biting, I should have logged in, but I really thought he'd take the time to understand why the hatnote was unneeded or explain why he thought it was helpful (he hasn't, so far). Anyway, as a sign of good faith, I've logged in before responding to you. I will not remove the hatnote again at this time, but it is the right thing to do. Rhindle The Red (talk) 15:47, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for failing to use your "new note" link. Didn't spot it. Rhindle The Red (talk) 15:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Eh, same effect -- it's just for people who are too new to spot the + tab up top, like I was at the time. :-)
In any case, there are a couple of other ways to get to that link -- The Taking of Pelham One Two Three (film) and The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3. WP:NAMB doesn't seem to me to apply, as (1974 film), (1988 film), and (2009 film) aren't nearly as far apart as Tree and Tree (set theory). You could make an argument that this _is_ the primary article, as it's likely the one most people would have been looking for until recently, and hence linking to a dab pag would clearly apply. Are you sure it's Ed with the bit in his teeth? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I just unprotected it -- it's obviously no longer needed. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiproject Freemason member

Hello!! I just stop here, to ask you, if can i become a member of Freemason Wikiproject, but only in images and symbols. I´am also responsible for this stuff.

Thanks and best regards.

--Lightwarrior2 (talk) 22:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's not something I really have any control over. :-) If you want to participate in a WikiProject, you pretty much just do. See you around! --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 23:26, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sarek, given this edit, we should keep an eye on what this fellow posts. Blueboar (talk) 23:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As with anyone. :-) Yes, I do have some particular concerns -- but if he does a good job with the edits, it won't be a problem. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 23:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to worry about... I came here in peace. If I had other intentions or if it was a vandalism,it would be worse ... Still, thanks for the confidence. Best regards. --Lightwarrior2 (talk) 06:29, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, Lightwarrior, everyone here who sees your username is going to immediately think of Wikipedia:Long term abuse/Lightbringer, so don't be offended if it takes us a bit to warm up to you. :-) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:11, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Once again, thanks for the confidence. :-) --Lightwarrior2 (talk) 16:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Everlast

I reported Jonnny Spasm for reverting the factual and cited material that fits in that paragraph. I don't see how it is fair for me to be threatened with being blocked when my reasons are it is relevant, factual, and sourced, and his reasons are 'will the real slim shady cut it out.' Remove the entire thing if one extra sentence is not valid. I notice an entire verse from Dialated Peeples on there, is that even legal? --216.17.75.89 (talk) 18:55, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And that source is where, exactly? (And I already cut that verse out, thanks for the notice.) --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at which one of us is writing what, you'd see which one of us is truly "warring." For that matter, look at his talk page.--Johnny Spasm (talk) 09:14, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cemetary

Vote has been changed. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 23:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me?

Sir, I don't believe I had the pleasure of meeting you. I haven't done anything to you, or spoken to you.

I am attempting to resolve an issue of blatant abuse by user:Wuhwuzdat, and admin/user:Toddst1.

I don't believe this involves you or requires your attention, unless of course you would like to assist in resolving this mess. All I want is to be left alone, to edit and correct where I feel I can help, in areas that I have knowlege.

Thank you for any help you might be able to provide.Dfwaviator (talk) 02:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Derrial Book

I fail to see your point. The consensus is delete. Silence does not mean opposition. 65.120.179.226 (talk) 02:14, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There was never a consensus to merge Book's article. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 02:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Everlast

This revision war with Johnny Spasm is getting out of control. He simply reverted everything you changed, and I notice you didn't have a huge problem with the exact same thing being there. What I want to know is why he leaves up 'everlast says check eminem's kid for dna' and even the bit from the SAME song I am commenting on where eminem tells his fans to pelt everlast with rocks, but this other bit of information he says is BIASED. The only BIAS is him removing this information to protect his idol, Everlast. This is stupid. He clearly reverts how HE wants with no concern for the rules of Wikipedia or the facts of the matter, the other content of the article, or anything but his own misguided fandom.

You should insist that he EXPLAIN his reversions in some meaningful, relevant to wikipedia policy manner before he can change it. --216.17.75.89 (talk) 13:44, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have gone to the talk page, which I did before. Johnny has not ONCE explained why that piece of information violates wikipedia policy. He calls it biased, but it is no more biased than the other information which is included in that paragraph and the one before. THE BURDEN IS ON HIM TO EXPLAIN, something he hasn't done and for some reason hasn't had any pressure on him to do. I insist that he give a rational, wikipedia policy based decision before he is allowed to change it. --216.17.75.89 (talk) 14:31, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Queen of All saints Cemetery

Hi. The contributor asserts permission on this one, though he has not yet verified. There's a discussion about it at ANI. I had converted the speedy to a "copyvio" with a note in edit summary, but had not yet had an opportunity to point to the assertion at the talk page when you deleted it. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:47, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neutralhomer

Neutralhomer (talk · contribs) seems sincere in his unblock request, and promises to strike his problematic comments. I wanted to check in with you before unblocking (with the warning that further disruption will lead to an immediate reblock). Thoughts? Thanks, –Juliancolton | Talk 16:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not opposed to an unblock in theory, but given his previous gross-incivility blocks, I'm hesitant to believe that an unblock would help. How has he been on articles unconnected to this one? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You may not have noticed, also, that those were from 2008. So while I don't condone what he said, it seemed, to me anyway, to be inappropriate hyperbole - but not a true opinion that an editor be actually executed "IRL". –xenotalk 16:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't matter what his opinion is: just that he expressed it here. Unless someone's perfected Mediawiki:Extensions/NeuralInterface.js, and I missed it.... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yea, again, I don't condone the comments. WP:COOL violation, but a month seems a bit lengthy given that it's been nearly a year since the last block. I'd urge reduction, or commuting to time served. And I thought they had a neural interface? Unless these folks are lying! –xenotalk 17:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but he seems to have learned his lesson. Overall he's a fairly productive editor. Your call. –Juliancolton | Talk 16:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you think it's appropriate, go ahead and reduce it to time served. I'm not convinced, but you seem more familiar with his editing patterns than I am.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be alright with reducing the block duration to ~48 hours. –Juliancolton | Talk 17:04, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That seems fair enough. Want to take care of it yourself, or should I? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:05, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Senator Diane Black

Hello SarekOfVulcan you removed an entire section concerning a racial attack against the President by a Senator's staffer made in the Senator's office. The entire section was never of dispute and should and will be added. At dispute were comments by two blacks experts, a sociologist and a political strategist. Review your reckless decision and explain your actions on the article talk page. Scribner (talk) 19:49, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to wait a day or two, give everyone time to cool off and then re-add the first paragraph, which is only a couple of sentences and then remove the POV tag, . I can't in good conscience not represent two black experts' positions who spoken out against this issue. I'll read the coatrack ref you left on my page. Scribner (talk) 21:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tennessee Republican Party

SarekOfVulcan explain why you removed an entire section involving a race controversy from a race controversy section? Scribner (talk) 21:43, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Initially, another user placed that section there and I removed it. Since Diane Black is the Tennessee Senate Republican Caucus Chairman I added it back. I'm adding an edited version of that section back in a day or so. If you have any objections, let me know before hand. Scribner (talk) 22:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
http://tndp.org/blog/2009/06/17/wednesday-reactions-to-the-latest-chapter-in-tennessee-republican-racism/
Not meaning to overwhelm you or pester you but yet another Tennessee Republican staffer got busted today for emailing racial sensitive items from Senate offices...only this time Republicans went after the guy thinking he was a Democrat because he worked in a Democrat's office. They insisted he be fired. The guy turned out to be a Republican...a member of a college Republican group. http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/2009/06/tit_for_tat_democratic_staffer.php Scribner (talk) 06:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Heh. Warms the cockles of my heart, that does... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 06:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding your "WHOA!"

I'm simply restoring the state of these articles after the torrent of changes made last night by User:Jenuk1985. Please look at his or her contribution list from last night, I'll hold in my restoring of them until you get back to me. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 00:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Checking now, but you're hitting articles I didn't see edited last night. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
They're all on my watch list, and all were edited by Jenuk. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 00:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see now. Hmmm.
Incidentally, I hadn't planned on reverting all of those edits -- there are far too many for me to do by hand -- just the ones on my watch list and a few other articles. I've got no desire to start an edit war with this person, who was completely unknown to me before now, despite the fact that he or she clearly went right down my contribution list to make their changes. (Just start at "Amen" on their contrib last and oompare it to my edits last night.) Ed Fitzgerald t / c 00:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Per Wikipedia:Layout#References, it's not incorrect either way. Why don't you discuss it somewhere, instead of just switching it?----SarekOfVulcan (talk) 00:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know it's not incorrect either way, which means that Jenuk's edits, in many cases undoing long-standing status quo, are a problem. Considering that I've just been the (rather obvious) object of a rather aggresive editing-attack, I feel a bit odd just walking up to this person and saying "Thanks for pummeling me, can we talk about it?". Would you consider mediating? Ed Fitzgerald t / c 00:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just for reference, I have been restoring articles back to the Notes/References situation before you embarked on your mass change programme over the past month. You really should get consensus before making such large scale changes. Jenuk1985 | Talk 01:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)I'm a better enforcer than a mediator. If you feel you've been attacked, maybe you should ask at WP:AN/I if other people agree that it's something that should be acted on. That might not be the correct venue, but someone would definitely be able to point you that way. (Also, at the moment, I'm supposed to be cooking, not Wikipedi-ing...)--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And BTW, 3 wrongs don't make a right... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't intending to ask you to mediate anything, just bringing the full situation to your attention, rather than a once sided discussion :). All I have done is reverted large scale changes made without any consensus to make the, on a seemingly random subset of articles. I have no intention of taking this further unless the large scale changes continue! Jenuk1985 | Talk 01:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to Wikipedia:Cite#Footnote system, it should be "Notes", though the Guide to Layout says it can be either. (And the "mediator" comment was a response to Ed, not you.)--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But we do however have a general accepted way of using "References" as the heading, which is used on the majority of articles. To go randomly making all these changes without starting a discussion first is massively inappropriate, and many of the cases I discovered had already been reverted. I didn't revert the articles which used the format ==References== followed by ====Notes==== and ====Bibliography==== as that seems perfectly acceptable. As I keep emphasising, if Ed would like to make mass changes in this way, the only sensible thing to do is to find an appropriate place, and discuss it there first. And making these edits without using an edit summary was also a terrible move, and throw in some MoS violations, its all a mess really. But yes, I'll stop hijacking your talk page now! Jenuk1985 | Talk 01:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sarek: There have been no "large scale" changes - you can check my contribution list for that. What he did last night was a large scale change. What I do is edit articles.

OK, so, he's undoing the edits I've just did. Some of these articles I wrote from scratch, some of them I've done major reconsitructions on, which means they've had "Notes" in them for quite a long time. Clearly, this person is, for whatever reason, bent on attacking me, undoing my edits (including image work, which I spend a lot of time on getting right), and apparently admins can't do anything about it but ask me to bend over so that he can get better aim. The behavioral evidence is clear (compare those contrib lists, there's not an article I didn't work on), and yet this kind of aggresive anti-social behavior goes untouched. Meanwhile in the last month I've been attacked on numerous occasions on my talk page, and never raised a stink about it. I've had one editor calling me a "stupid asshole" and another telling me I'm a mental case, but because I'm here to edit and not to play stupid games, I let this stuff go. But when my edits are hit, that's another matter: if I can't edit, there's no particualr purpose in my being here.

Look, I'm sure you mean well, but what's called for here is the hammer, not the velvet glove. Since that doesn't seem to be coming, I'm going to take a break for a while. I've got a surgical procedure scheduled for Monday which was going to force a short Wikibreak anyway, I'll just start it now. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 01:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I never said bend over. I just don't have enough of my attention here to review this properly. As I said, my dinner is cooking...--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For the record.. its she, not he. I'd appreciate it if you'd get that right. I have no issues in admitting I went through your contributions list to weed out all the changes you made so they could be reverted, allowing you then to start a discussion on where to go from here. I always check the contributions of editors who make controversial edits, to weed out the other controversial edits they have made. I still need to go through and fix all the image changes you made to conform with the WP:MOS, I'm gonna have a long few nights ahead of me! One question, if as it has been pointed above, it can be done either way, why are you randomly changing articles to your preferred version? I don't understand how you managed to get to a village article in the UK and do this (the one which alerted me to what you were doing). Maybe an ANI thread would be a good idea afterall. Jenuk1985 | Talk 01:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
She, he doesn't matter. An asshole is an asshole. Ed Fitzgerald t / c 01:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And a blocked editor is a blocked editor.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 01:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks

He was getting out of hand, I had just filed a Wikiquette Alert, but you beat me to it with the block! Apologies that all of this split over onto your talk page in this way. I will start an ANI thread in the morning regarding this users conduct, after doing a bit of research there are other issues involved here too. Thanks again for stepping in, and apologies again for everything! In fact, I think you deserve something... Jenuk1985 | Talk 02:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

The Barnstar of Peace
For putting up with the rubbish that WikiPedia throws at you and dealing with it well :) Jenuk1985 | Talk 02:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please restore Singh

Please restore User:BullRangifer/Singh. Your justification is incorrect, and the issue was resolved per the request of the nominator before you deleted it, hence your deletion was improper. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that anything was "resolved" at the point I deleted it, so it would be more appropriate to take this to Wikipedia:Deletion review. Thanks.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 11:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Levine2112 objected to the words "add your signature..." and I removed them from the template. Then I got a notice of possible deletion and you deleted it before I had seen it and gotten a chance to reply. The problem had already been solved. -- Brangifer (talk) 13:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Settlers of Catan

Sourced material does not matter when the source fails to make any sense. You need to read the article "killer app" links to before you comment on this. It isn't an opinion. A killer app is an application that proves the viability of its platform. Board Games do not require a seperate setup in order to run. Settlers of Catan does not prove the viability of anything except itself. Something cannot be its own "killer app." If they wrote, "Settlers of Catan is the Paris Hilton of Mars" in a review, would you place it into the article? It shouldn't be there. At the very least, it shouldn't be in the introduction. Giberish praise is meaningless. - 71.193.11.63 (talk) 08:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cute. That wasn't an effort to cite a reference. If you want one, here:
killer app. (n.d.). Jargon File 4.2.0. Retrieved June 19, 2009, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/killer app
That was simply for your benefit. I assumed you didn't know the term. If you didn't, and I think that's likely now, you now have a sourced definition to work from. Even taking the first definition (the one that is less based on Jargon) Settlers of Catan is not an application. Feel better? - 71.193.11.63 (talk) 15:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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