Talk:Oldest people

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Ella Rentel, world's oldest person 1962?

Greetings,

Documentation for the Ella Rentel case (May 19, 1852-Sept 19 1962) has been received as of 8 November 2008. If accepted, this case will be a new "world's oldest person" (revised) for March-Sept 1962. Born in Lithuania (Russian Empire), she died in West Germany.Ryoung122 11:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This has now been inserted into the chronology on the main page. But has this been accepted? I don't see it on GRG or Epstein. Is someone jumping the gun here? Canada Jack (talk) 21:10, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Someone is jumping the gun here. This case looks good but until it appears on the GRG or Epstein lists, then there's no source for it. Of course I'd like to think of the WOP as a source but haven't gotten around to it yet.Ryoung122 05:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No slight intended there, Robert... Canada Jack (talk) 01:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If sended the information about Ella Ille Rentel also to Louis Epstein and hope that it will be exepted, too.
Btw.: She ist older than Helen Czechowicz, born in Lithuania, too, and listed as oldest person born in the Russian Empire...
--Statistician (talk) 21:42, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Josep Armengol of Spain, world's oldest man 1994

Greetings,

Documentation has been received for a new Spanish "world's oldest man", born in 1881.

Details soon.Ryoung122 11:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Worlds_Oldest_People/message/11413

Josep Armengol (1881 - 1994) Message List

Reply | Forward | Delete Message #11413 of 11820 < Prev | Next >

Hello,

I have completed the validation of this case thanks to the online archive of newspaper La Vanguardia, which allowed me to check that the person born in 1881 was the same who died in 1994.

THE CLAIM Josep Armengol Jover was born on July 23, 1881 and died on Jan. 20, 1994 at 112 years and 181 days of age. If true, he would be: - The oldest man in the World (June 1993 - Jan. 1994) - The oldest man in Spain (Jan. 1990 - Jan. 1994) - The second oldest man in Spain ever after Joan Riudavets. - The oldest person in Spain (Mar. 1990 - Jan. 1994)

VALIDATION Birth Certificate (Terrassa) - José Armengol Jover was born in Terrassa on July 23, 1881 - Parents: Pedro Armengol Padrós and Dolores Jover Barba - Grandparents: Pedro Armengol&María Padrós and Agustín Jover&Rosa Barba - Note: Cross-reference to the death record in Barcelona

Death Certificate (Barcelona) - José Armengol Jover died in Barcelona on Jan. 20, 1994 - Born in Terrassa on July 23, 1881 - Parents: Pedro Armengol and Dolores Jover - Note: Cross-reference to the birth in Terrassa

Son's Birth Certificate (Terrassa) - Amadeo Armengol Gibert was born in Terrassa on July 25, 1910 - Parents: José Armengol Jover (28) and Filomena Gibert Comellas (21) - Grandparents: Pedro Armengol & Dolores Jover and Pablo Gibert & Rosa Comellas

Son's Obituary (June 1973) - He died in Barcelona at age 62. - Her parents (José and Filomena) are confirmed to be alive.

Parents' and siblings' obituaries - Pedro Armengol (father, 69, Jun 1916). Wife (Dolores) and 3 children (José, Agustín and Rosa) alive. - Dolores Jover (mother, 101, Feb 1952). 3 children alive. - Agustín Armengol(brother, 71, oct. 1955). Brother José and sister Rosa alive. - Rosa Armengol (sister, 85, Jul. 1973). Brother José alive.

He married for a second time at age 99 with Teresa Delclós after the death of his fist wife (Filomena Gibert) at age 90.

I have sent all the documents supporting this case to Robert.

Regards, Miguel Quesada

Regards Robert Young Ryoung122 11:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Has this case been officially validated? Seems on a par to the Ella Rentel discussion above to me. SiameseTurtle (talk) 11:21, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He's now on Epstein's list. Rental last I checked is not. Canada Jack (talk) 22:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OTHER SOURCES

I am a professional genealogist. I have come across a number of people who belong on the list of oldest people ever. I also note there isn't an oldest women ever, only an oldest men. Verified by the social security index and backed up by census, there are a number of people whose age was never investigated or verified by Guinness or others.Daviddaniel37 (talk) 18:48, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you would like to e-mail me, the world's leading expert, I'll evaluate what you have. E-mail me at ryoung122@yahoo.com with your case presentation.

I am not only the Senior Consultant for Gerontology for Guinness World Records, the Senior Claims Researcher for the Gerontology Research Group, a co-founder of the Supercentenarian Research Foundation, but also a researcher for the New England Supercentenarian Study, a contributor to the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research and the International Database on Longevity. I am the only person in the world involved in every major group that studies supercentenarians.Ryoung122 09:15, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unconfirmed Cases

Yes; has anyone considered an "Unconfirmed Cases" subtitle from off of the main article of this page. I know there are an awful lot of cases, especially from Russia, where I believe one person was said to have lived to be 162 years old, but since there were no birth records being taken when he was born, his age just couldn't be confirmed.

WB2 (talk) 02:09, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, there are an awful lot of cases where when the person's true age isn't known, the attendant doctor or nurse simply guesses as to his or her age, and I find that in these cases they invariably underestimate what that person's true age is.

WB2 (talk) 02:21, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Puerto Rico is not a country

It is part of the United States (while it is on it's way of becoming either a state or a country, it has not been decided, which the people want yet). So it should say "Puerto Rico, United States" and have the US flag.--24.171.0.229 (talk) 18:18, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not a part of the United States. When the U.S. Census reports the nation's population, Puerto Rico's 3.8 million persons are NOT included...but D.C.'s population is.Ryoung122 18:24, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's more accurate to say that Puerto Rico is not a part of the United States but is a possession of the United States. The key term is "Unincorporated territory," which is what Puerto Rico is, as that means PR is not considered part of the United States proper. It is essentially a colony. So PR is not a country, but neither it is a part of the United States. It is colony, more or less, of the United States. Canada Jack (talk) 19:41, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

whatever, but the people living there are American citizens, so the PR fellow should be the oldest American. 69.250.186.142 (talk) 20:42, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jane Pittman

I think Jane Pittman (Sometime in 1851 or 1852 to 1962) she was 110 years old when she died making her one of the oldest African American to ever live. She was a Slave as a Child and evently fought freedom. Buffyfan882 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:28, 5 March 2009 (UTC).[reply]

That was a work of fiction. Miss Jane Pittman was a character in a novel, not a real person.Ryoung122 05:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No she was an actual person the book was her autobiography —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buffyfan882 (talk • contribs) 02:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming that the above poster is sincere, one should not cite as evidence the word "autobiography" in the title. Since the author's name is Ernest Gaines (born 1933), there should be a rather non-subtle clue here that the novel is a work of fiction.

But, don't take my word or the word of Robert above. Here is the author's own words: "Some people have asked me whether or not The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman is fiction or nonfiction. It is fiction... I think people were also thrown off by the introduction that I put into the book, where a young professor from a high school or a college in Baton Rouge goes to this plantation to interview this old lady with a tape recorder... The introduction is fiction just as the novel is. I created all of this. I did a lot of research in books to give some facts to what Miss Jane could talk about, but these are my creations. I read quite a few interviews performed with former slaves by the WPA during the thirties and I got their rhythm and how they said certain things. But I never interviewed anybody. Since The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman came out, I've gotten all these requests asking me to interview old people. I've said, 'Listen I don't know anything about interviewing old people!' I wrote a book!" [1] Cheers Canada Jack (talk) 03:08, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh Ok thanks I wasn't sure anyway thanks Buffyfan882

Sorry my daughter Christine wrote that she learned about Jane in her History class she thought she was real, but I tried to tell her she's not she wouldn't believe but she'd believe someone on Wikipedia but that's a teenager for you anyway thanks. Buffyfan882 —Preceding undated comment added 03:05, 14 March 2009 (UTC).[reply]

Oldest people/women

All that was discussed before was keeping or removing the oldest women table. It was removed primarily because of the repetition of information (9 of the top 10 women are in the top 10 people). Never was it discussed the possibility of merging these into one table. Wikipedia encourages people to be bold, and that is what I'm doing. Wikipedia is a source of information and someone may want to know the top 10 oldest people, women, and men. Why should we display the top 10 oldest men (as we did when we had over 10 verified men over 110), but not the top 10 oldest women? SiameseTurtle (talk) 18:50, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

its not fair, they should tell who the tenth oldest living man is wether he is 110 or not, or it shouldnt say 10 oldest men but living men over 110, make up your mind, its a contradiction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.81.240.34 (talk) 00:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Because either we do 10 men/10 women list, or we do 10 men/10 people list. And the consensus, like it or not, is to do the latter. Your attempt to do both here is in my eyes contrived and clumsy. What happens when another man makes the list, or two? Then we end up with a Top 12 or Top 13 list. Or, what happens when the #11 oldest person is a man, but you want to extend the list to include the 10th-oldest woman - but the way you have it almost forces you to include #11 man and then #12 woman to make it happen. So it becomes the "10 oldest people list and 10 oldest women list, except there is a guy who isn't in the top 10 list, but he's ahead of the 10th woman, so we better include him so you don't think that woman is #11 oldest person when she is in fact #12" list(And this is not some unlikely thing, either - currently a man is at #14).

Besides, the other lists are fairly consistent in keeping it to a top 10 list. Once we accept what you've done here, then we are pretty well forced to do the same with the all-time people list. Yet, in all these cases, there are links for those who want to see the longer lists. In the end, there should be a simple rule-of-thumb. A Top 10 list should be limited to 10 people. Only when there is doubt about someone's candidacy for the list should we mess with that simple principle. Canada Jack (talk) 19:10, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Very well, I see your point. However I still think we should be consistent with women/men lists. Here's an updated version of the table I made last year. I'd like people to comment as I think it's a legitimate alternative to the table we already have. SiameseTurtle (talk) 20:44, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The following table lists the 10 oldest women in the world along with any men aged over 110 years. Note that 90% of supercentenarians are female and many omitted female supercentenarians intersperse the lower-ranked men.

Female Male

Overall Rank	Male or Female Rank	Name	Age as of 5 November 2024	Born	Residence
1	1	Gertrude Baines	130 years, 213 days	6 April 1894	Oldest person in the world (since 2 January 2009). Lives in California, United States
2	2	Kama Chinen	129 years, 179 days	10 May 1895	Lives in Okinawa, Japan
3	3	Mary Josephine Ray	129 years, 172 days	17 May 1895	Lives in New Hampshire, United States
4	4	Olivia Patricia Thomas	129 years, 129 days	29 June 1895	Lives in New York, United States
5	5	Neva Morris	129 years, 94 days	3 August 1895	Lives in Iowa, United States
6	6	Chiyo Shiraishi	129 years, 91 days	6 August 1895	Lives in Ibaraki, Japan
7	1	Tomoji Tanabe	129 years, 48 days	18 September 1895	Oldest man in the world (since 24 January 2007). Lives in Miyazaki, Japan
8	7	Maggie Renfro	128 years, 357 days	14 November 1895	Lives in Louisiana, United States
9	8	Eugénie Blanchard	128 years, 263 days	16 February 1896	Lives in Saint Barthélemy, France
10	9	Lucia Lauria	128 years, 246 days	4 March 1896	Lives in Basilicata, Italy
11	10	Kou Iijima	128 years, 225 days	25 March 1896	Lives in Chiba, Japan
14	2	Henry Allingham	128 years, 152 days	6 June 1896	Lives in England, United Kingdom. World War I Veteran
18	3	Walter Breuning	128 years, 45 days	21 September 1896	Lives in Montana, United States
32	4	Jiroemon Kimura	127 years, 200 days	19 April, 1897	Lives in Kansai, Japan
47	5	Antonio de Castro	126 years, 304 days	6 January 1898	Lives in Portugal
62	6	Harry Patch	126 years, 141 days	17 June 1898	Lives in England, United Kingdom. World War I Veteran
67	7	Garland Adair	126 years, 98 days	30 July 1898	Lives in Missouri, United States

So far, it seems two of us already think this is not a good idea. The table above seems to be a solution seeking a problem. And in my view, it hopelessly confuses information which is much plainer as it stands already. For example, one may ask why there are only 7 men on the list when there are 10 women. It's not nearly as obvious as it was before. Further, the layout is simply confusing.

In the end, I think it is hard to justify any list which is not limited to a round number (10) or a significant milestone (reaching 110). I had argued before for a list of 10 women, but to include the 10 women within a list which could stretch to 12 or 13 makes it unwieldy and clumsy and, as I have already pointed out, forces you to list any man who wouldn't normally be on the lost simply as a placeholder. Your solution above is not helpful, in my view.

Further, it is inconsistent. All the other lists on the page are people/men. Sexist perhaps, but it reflects a demographic reality - that something like 90 per cent of super centenarians are women. To then insert a top women/top men list - when that information is readily available via the link - wrecks to flow of the page. If one is to insist on including the top 10 women (as I once insisted on, when there were 10 men it seemed odd to not know the 10th woman if a man was in the top 10 people list), there is perhaps a better "combined" solution. And that might be to keep two separate "top 10" lists but make them "top 10 women" and "top 10 men" and then include the other column to indicate each individual's rank in the over-all people list. So, we'd see 1-10 for women, with a second column running 1-9, then 11 for the tenth woman. For the men's list, we'd see, currently, 1-7, with the second column 7, 14, 18 etc for each male. I, personally, could live with that. I don't agree with an 11- or 12-deep list of oldest people extended to include the 10th woman. Canada Jack (talk) 16:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, that would be 1-6, then 8-11 for the women's "overall" rank. Canada Jack (talk) 16:24, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think part of the problem is that this, though seemingly simple, requires a bit of higher-order thinking. If women live longer (that is, not just outnumber males 9 to 1 but outlive them by 2-3 years), then I really don't see the point of needing to list the "11th woman." Let's face it, Henry Allingham got a LOT more news coverage than C. Letitia Lawson. Yes, she was older...but not even one of the ten oldest women, while Allingham is the second-oldest man. So, issue #1 is that the relative significance is not the same...living to 113 for a man is much rarer than a woman reaching the same age. It follows, then, that perhaps the "overdog" (Goliath) doesn't deserve recognition when they finish 11th overall. Issue #2: sometimes we don't even have ten males. "Top ten" is just a cutoff mechanism.

However, the problem is that this argument requires Einstein's concept of relativity (you know, that Emma Tillman died on January 28 2007 but it was already January 29 2007 in Japan). For the simple masses, I suggest making three lists to make them happy: "oldest persons," "oldest women," and "oldest males." Note that since we have articles on all three, each top-ten list would be a summary of the article and have its own "main list: see (x)" listed.Ryoung122 21:13, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

11th woman

Comment: why should there be 10 women listed (but just 7 men)?Ryoung122 00:02, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rosa Rein confirmed

Rosa Rein is now confirmed as the oldest Swiss national. I have accordingly put her in the Swiss record-holder. However, I understand there is some dispute whether she should be given that title as she was born in Germany. Canada Jack (talk) 04:03, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll say this again: the GRG lists nationality records by place of birth. Otherwise, someone could simply "move" to "set" a record, and the national records would be meaningless. That Rosa Rein is verified by the GRG to be born March 24, 1897 does NOT mean that she is validated to be the Swiss recordholder. She was not born in Switzerland, and indeed didn't move there until middle age.Ryoung122 04:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless, this is how the tables are organised on this page. It's not a table by place of birth. Florence, born in the UK is listed as the New Zealand recordholder. SiameseTurtle (talk) 08:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I don't know who slipped that one in, but the sources (the GRG lists) don't list the information that way.Ryoung122 17:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, I think we need to have a discussion: there are several ways to list this:

A. by birth nation

B. by death nation

C. only those born and died in the same nation and lived entire time in that nation

Let's talk about it.

Ryoung122 17:48, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I seem to remember trying to stimulate this discussion a while ago and the consensus was either against me, or I got few comments.

In summary though, this page should be a summary of the many articles we have (hence lots of 'top 10' listings). We can't give this section too much space: We must be clear and concise.

At the moment, the table is ordered by place of death/residence. What that means is, whoever was the oldest to die in a certain country is listed. The Emigrant table lists anyone who exceeds the oldest death in their birth country, but has emigrated to another country. For example, Benkner emigrated from Germany and died in the USA. She isn't the oldest to die in Germany, and she isn't the oldest to die in the USA. However she can be considered the oldest German-born person, which is what the emigrant table is for.

I attempted to make a table that showed the information together, but I wasn't sure if this became too confusing or not:

The following table is a list of the oldest people from each country, ranked by age.

Emigrant cases are highlighted in blue. These are people, who have outlived any lifelong resident of their birth country, but have died in another country. Immigrant cases are highlighted in yellow, which represents those who have outlived any lifelong resident of their country of death, but were born in a different country.

Birth	Death	Age	Sex	Name	Born	Died
France		122 years 164 days	F	Jeanne Calment	21 February 1875	4 August 1997
Japan		120? years 237 days	M	Shigechiyo Izumi	29 June 1865?	21 February 1986
United States		119 years 97 days	F	Sarah Knauss	24 September 1880	30 December 1999
Canada		117 years 230 days	F	Marie-Louise Meilleur	29 August 1880	16 April 1998
Ecuador		116 years 347 days	F	María Capovilla	14 September 1889	27 August 2006
Denmark^[1]	United States	115 years 252 days	M	Christian Mortensen	16 August 1882	25 April 1998
United Kingdom		115 years 228 days	F	Charlotte Hughes	1 August 1877	17 March 1993
Romania		115? years 157 days	F	Anitica Butariu	30 June 1882?	21 November 1997
Netherlands		115 years 62 days	F	Hendrikje van Andel-Schipper	29 June 1890	30 August 2005
Portugal		131 years, 56 days	F	Maria de Jesus	10 September 1893	Living
Cape Verde	United States	114 years 183 days	F	Adelina Domingues	19 February 1888	21 August 2002
Germany^[2]	United States	114 years 180 days	F	Charlotte Benkner	16 November 1889	14 May 2004
Algeria	France	114 years 172 days	F	Anne Primout	5 October 1890	26 March 2005
Australia		114 years 148 days	F	Christina Cock	25 December 1887	22 May 2002
Spain		114 years 81 days	M	Joan Riudavets	15 December 1889	5 March 2004
Italy		114 years 4 days	F	Virginia Dighero-Zolezzi	24 December 1891	28 December 2005
India	United Kingdom	113 years 197 days	F	Lucy d'Abreu	24 May 1892	7 December 2005
United Kingdom	New Zealand^[3]	113 years 109 days	F	Florence Finch	22 December 1893	10 April 2007
Sweden		113 years 0 days	F	Astrid Zachrison	15 May 1895	15 May 2008

Well, in case anyone sees the need to insert her record, there is the reason why it's not there. To be clear, will she set a German record if she survives another year, despite now being a Swiss citizen? Canada Jack (talk) 04:24, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, she won't. Rein is an emigrated case. The longest-lived German emigrant was Benkner. SiameseTurtle (talk) 18:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is an interesting alternative to what we have now. As usual, it has some benefits (Mortensen and Denmark are listed at 115) and a downside (Denmark's oldest resident, 111, wouldn't be listed). However, since this gives maximum weight to the "oldest" and less weight to political division and emigrant/immigrant status, I would be inclined to agree that this would be an improvement. One solution would be to move the current tables to the "main article" and use this combo for this article, which, as you said, is meant to provide a "summary" of the most important information, not the complete story.Ryoung122 11:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sakhan Dosova, unverified, claim to 130 yo

Do we add these sort of entries? Obviously Guiness hasn't made a determination yet, but is this legit enough to place in the article?^[4] -- Chupon (talk) 23:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Afraid not, but she can go to the longevity claims page. Only validated people go on the oldest people page. Let's face it: The passport looks very recent, and I would say she looks more like 70 than 100. And a grand-daughter who is 88 years younger? They also say "According to one version of her life, she must have given birth to several children over the age of 60". I think this case is pretty unlikely to be true. SiameseTurtle (talk) 00:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Doctors still back her claim though. Revan46 00:31, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Doctors have no way to verify such a claim. It's not as if there is a medical database out there for "typical" 130-year-olds.(!)Canada Jack (talk) 12:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

National & Emigrant Records

Someone changed the "National Records" and "Emigrant Records". The discuss about this section in the section s"Rosa Rein" ended in March and now it's changed in a strange way: As far as I know the "emigrant records" listed person born in a country and died in an other but who were older then the national record holder. "Mary Josephine Ray" is younger the the canadian record holder "Marie-Louise Meilleur"; he also changed from "Rosa Rein" to "Emma Duvoisin" but didn't but "Rosa Rein" on the emigration table like "Florence Finch"(born in the UK, died in New zeland, older then "Ethel Booth" but younger then "Charlotte Hughes". Isn't it riht that "Manolita Pina" was born in Spain?
So how will we handel this in the furture? Emigrant record only if older than other persons born in the country or for emigrants that are older then the oldest person born and died in that country? Two different lists? Other question nation list only for persons born and died in that country? It that, what with austria-hungarian cases? A lot of people were born in austria-hungarian but lived after WWI in an other country because austria-hungary didn't existed any more. Btw.: Maria Mika was born in the bohemian part of austria-hungary, later czechia.
Your opinions?
--Statistician (talk) 21:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello,
I saw that someone changed "Germany " today "Germany (now Poland)" on the "Rosa Rein"-entry - but only on her entry. "Elizabeth Stefan" was born in the hungarian part of austria-hungary but her place of birth is today in romania, "Helen Czechowicz" in what's today "Lithuania" and "Maria Mika" what's today "Czechis", so why "Germany (now Poland)" but not "Austria-Hungary (now Romania)" and "Russian Empire (now Lithuania)"?
--Statistician (talk) 07:30, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that everyone is using their own standards of measure. Elizabeth Stefan's family considered her "Hungarian". A person's nationality is more than just where the border was at the time of birth.Ryoung122 01:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Robert! I wasn't talking about nationality. Elizabeth Stefan clearly is of hungarian origian. Her Place of birth was at thsi time part of hungary too, but it changed to Romania after WWI. Btw.: Rosa Rein is of german origian and nobody claimed that she's of polish origian. As always I think we should have the same standards. So if the birth of plce of Rosa Rein is listed as Germany (now Poland) we should do this things on others, too, or don't do it on Rosa Rein at all.
Btw.: Someone changed a lot of things on the page, also the emigration table. The person put all emigrates of the list, he now - but not all of them where older then the oldest person living and dying in this country. So we realy want to make a list for oldest emmigrates from each to any other? I think the list now isn't coincident.
Do you realy want on the list oldest person born in the Russian Empire and died in USA? Or Anna Stephan (born Bohemia, austrian party of austria-hungary, died in germany), Catherine Trompeter (born Germany, died France), Johanna Meyer-Zettel (born germany, died italy) and Venere (Pizzinato) Papo (born austrian party of austria-hungary, living in Italy) on the list? Isn't it better to delete Mary Josephine Ray, Amalia Ruggieri, Ito Konno Kinase, Mary Marques, Gunhild Foerster and Anna Silverdahl?

--Statistician (talk) 13:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Age Range

I don't think we need exact-day counts for the age range. There is too much focus here on the detail, and not the big picture.Ryoung122 01:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ella Rentel, world's oldest person 1962, coming soon

Just to let you know this case will be on the next update of www.recordholders.org.Ryoung122 01:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Consuelo Moreno

Was born in Spanish Morocco (a Spanish colony), not the current nation of Morocco.Ryoung122 01:59, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish Morocco has been since 1912, she was born before: in Tangier there was a Spanish community because of its position. The red flag (without star) is of Kingdom of Morocco before Spanish domination.--Pascar (talk) 21:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I stand corrected. However, she did live there from 1912 until 1960, during the time it was Spanish Morocco.Ryoung122 22:32, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Too Many Details?

Hello everbody this is Frosty87 I don;t know why some people on this web forum seem intent on deleting my work I merly was telling people here the ages the people were when they became the Oldest person in the world but for some reason or other people here seem to want to desory my work.In my opinon it does not matter what a article loooks like as long as it gets the message acroos and increases knowledge but every sometimes when I try to do that here it gets deleted.Sorry about being so cross but thats the way I feel —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frosty87 (talk • contribs) 04:23, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're probably talking about the full ages that were put into the table in the 'age when oldest column'. I undid that because it stretched the column too much and made the data hard to read. It's very easy to glance at the column when it just says 110 - 112 and understand it. If you look at it when it says 110 years, 238 days - 112 years, 90 days then it becomes difficult to read by glance. Because this column became so wide, other columns became squashed on low resolution screens. It does matter what a table looks like because a poorly constructed and imbalanced table is hard to read (and prevents the message getting across). SiameseTurtle (talk) 08:34, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree with Siamese. Not only was the chart getting gummed up, I'm not sold on the idea that we need to know someone's age to the day when they became world's oldest person. In the end, the added info wasn't particularly relevant. Canada Jack (talk) 17:00, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I like the "year" counts better. It makes it easier to understand that the maximum ages don't vary that much...especially at the valleys. Since the late 1980s, the world's oldest person has been at least 114...yet as recently as 2009, it dipped to as low as 114. To me, to notice the long-term trend is more important than micro-analysis. Don't forget that with a sample size of one, you introduce chance. With a larger sample, the data become more meaningful.Ryoung122 19:31, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have always felt that the age at which the oldest person died and the length of time they held the "title" were unnecessary and made the tables too messy. I believe they were added by a user who tried to add various "records" about longest and shortest tenure etc (see Talk:Oldest people#Summary chart above) but was outvoted. if there is a poll to remove this info I would be in favour of the removal. DerbyCountyinNZ 05:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I belive that the dates in which the oldest people held the "title" are kind of nice such as Jeanne Calment held the "title" from Febuary 14,1991 until Augest 4,1997 June 14,2009 by Frosty87

The dates for the start and finish of a person's tenure as oldest person are not just "nice" they are quite, well actually, very, important for the table. Without them the list would be pointless. The same cannot be said for the number of years/days they held that position (and, given the variances in time due to global time differences, they are not even accurate). DerbyCountyinNZ 01:35, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Oldest POLISCH people

Miejsce	Imię i nazwisko	Aktualny wiek	Data urodzenia	Województwo
1	Marianna Ostrowska^[5]	111	5 sierpnia 1897	podlaskie
2	Michalina Wasilewska^[6]	110	21 grudnia 1898	mazowieckie
3	Józef Kowalski^[7]	109	2 lutego 1900	lubuskie
4	Apolonia Lisowska^[8]	109	18 lutego 1900	mazowieckie
5	Julianna Szewczyk^[9]	109	1 czerwca 1900	mazowieckie
6	Julianna Garbacz^[10]	108	czerwiec 1900	świętokrzyskie
7	Jadwiga Wrzos^[11]	108	6 listopada 1900	mazowieckie
8	Helena Kucharska^[12]	107	21 października 1901	kujawsko-pomorskie
9	Konstanty Jung^[13]	107	1 listopada 1901	lubelskie
10	Bolesław Krugło^[14]	107	22 stycznia 1902	wielkopolskie
11	Marianna Misiewicz^[15]	107	26 stycznia 1902	podlaskie
12	Adam Zemanowicz^[16]	107	2 lutego 1902	kujawsko-pomorskie
13	Maria Kutyła^[17]	106	12 lipca 1902	podkarpackie
14	Maria Jóźków^[18]	106	15 lipca 1902	opolskie
15	Marianna Szewczyk^[19]	106	7 grudnia 1902	wielkopolskie
15	Marian Utnik^[20]	106	7 grudnia 1902	mazowieckie

This is actually an interesting bit of information. However I think it would fit better on either a page about the oldest polish people or a page about oldest people by nationality. There is one list here that is a list of oldest by nationality, but it is still an international level scope. aremisasling (talk) 14:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Archiving

This talk page needs archiving again. There are a lot of sections which are no longer relevant. Unless someone would like to do it manually I'll add a bot. Cheers, DerbyCountyinNZ 05:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I've added the archive bot. I suspect once it has started it will need re-indexing, I'll have a go at that once it happens. Cheers, DerbyCountyinNZ 01:27, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

people from PR are American citizens

The guy listed as from Puerto Rico, should be listed as an American, since PR citizens are American citizens. If the guy was from Washington, DC would you put Washington DC or would you put American?

Fix the racism! At least put both USA and PRI69.250.186.142 (talk) 20:50, 20 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Puerto Rico is a territory of the USA, but not part of the USA so they should be represented by the Puerto Rican flag, not the American flag. SiameseTurtle (talk) 21:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why not check out Puerto Rico, and that should settle the dispute. And besides, it isn't racist, it's geographist. or soemthing. 209.206.206.169 (talk) 00:31, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lifespan for the elderly has NOT substantially increased!

I read somewhere that the average maximum life span of the elderly has only increased by 5 years since the 1800's. I don't remember where it was, but it was so shocking to me that I wrote it down. If I find the source, I'll write it here. Basically, even the 5 years increase in life span can be attributed to simple things like hygiene and diet, and in the end means that technology can't save you, and can't even extend your life very much. I'm sure it'll make you more comfortable though, as the doctors pump you full of morphine as your body shuts down in your final days. Qwasty (talk) 03:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense (verified/disputed)

"Oldest male and Asiatic person ever verified. Japanese. Disputed (may have been 105)." How can this be a verified person and be disputed? They are mutually exclusive. 209.206.206.169 (talk) 00:31, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He has been verified, but doubts about his authenticity have arisen since then. However the case has not been retracted and is considered verified but under dispute. SiameseTurtle (talk) 00:45, 30 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mariam Amash?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariam_Amash

She is apparently older than Gertrude Baines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.15.132 (talk) 05:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Apparently" is not the same as "verified". DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 06:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Betsy Baker revert war

For the moment I've reverted Betsy Baker back to Valgjer Svien because the section title as it stands implicitly excludes Betsy Baker and includes Valgjer Svien. Here's the reasoning:
1. The section is for supercentenarians who died before 1955
2. Both Baker and Svien were supercentenarians so they both meet that criterion
3. Betsy Baker died in 1955, which is not before 1955
4. Valgjer Svien died in 1953, which is before 1953

Conclusion: Baker cannot be on the list as she is out of scope. The fact that she was older at the time of Svien's death is irrelevant to the purpose of the section as it is currently stated. In no way does this section say it is a list of the oldest people at the time, merely that it is the oldest people who died before 1955. It doesn't even say it's in any order, though it happens to be.

Now before you think I'm picking on you, Frosty, there may be an argument for including Baker in a list like this. But it absolutely requires not just adding her, but altering the title of the section to fit her case. Either way this issue needs to be discussed here before changes are made and not in edit summaries in the midst of a revert war. aremisasling (talk) 14:51, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The reason the list is for before 1955 is that that is when Guinness started to compile and publish a category of world's oldest person. The list contains all proven centenarian cases before that date, i.e., people who lived to be 110+ but died before Guinness started the category, so it makes no sense to include Betsy Baker when she is already covered above and was alive when Guinness started the category. Canada Jack (talk) 17:30, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I should have known. I've been lurking and occasionally editing on the oldest/supercentenarian pages long enough to have recognized that year. aremisasling (talk) 17:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Claims ex-NHLer is 128 years old

On the List of oldest NHL players under unknown, Kenneth Thompson has a date of birth of May 29, 1881 and a given age of 128 years, 88 days (as of August 24, 2009) so he should either have his record or be recorded as having died at some point. NHLNUT 1:20 AM, August 25, 2009 (PST) Does anyone know if Sarah Knauss daughter who was 96 in 1999 is living or what happened to her Frosty87 Augest 30,2009

^ Although Mortensen was the oldest Danish-born person, Anne Mattheisen was the oldest to die in Denmark, at 111 years, 114 days.
^ Although Benkner was the oldest German-born person, Maria Laqua was the oldest to die in Germany, at 112 years, 362 days.
^ Although Finch was the oldest person to die in New Zealand, Ethel Booth was the oldest person to have been born in New Zealand, who died at age 110 years, 55 days.
^ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1164503/Is-woman-really-old-LIGHT-BULB-Oldest-person-world-set-celebrate-130th-birthday.html
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[Denmark-1] Although Mortensen was the oldest Danish-born person, Anne Mattheisen was the oldest to die in Denmark, at 111 years, 114 days.

[Germany-2] Although Benkner was the oldest German-born person, Maria Laqua was the oldest to die in Germany, at 112 years, 362 days.

[NewZealand-3] Although Finch was the oldest person to die in New Zealand, Ethel Booth was the oldest person to have been born in New Zealand, who died at age 110 years, 55 days.

[4] ttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1164503/Is-woman-really-old-LIGHT-BULB-Oldest-person-world-set-celebrate-130th-birthday.html

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