Talk:Samael

Samael DOES NOT mean 'Poison of God'

Article states that "SAM" is Hebrew for venom/poison, but this is not accurate. "SAM" means drug. Old texts sometimes refer to Poison as "SAM HA-MAVET", meaning the drug of death, but there are at least two special words for poison ("RAAL" and "ROSH") and at least one word for venom ("ERES").

I changed the relevant sentence, but perhaps it is better removed entirely.

--79.179.102.33 20:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I have had to remove the Samael="poison of God" garbage again, I will continue to do so.

Source your entymology please! Kairos (talk) 07:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Some have stated that Samael means “venom of God” or “the blind god”. Despite that belief, the name “Samael” does not have anything to do with venom, poison or blindness. With its roots in Mesopotamia, the name is constructed of two parts--SAMA and EL, to form SAMA.EL. The term "Sama" equates with peace or harmony, while the term "El" notes divinity or the status of being a lord or god. This can be readily observed in the construction of angelic names such as Michael (MICHA.EL), Gabriel (GABRI.EL), etc. Of course, the word "angel" itself contains it (ANG.EL). Therefore SAMA.EL means "Lord of Peace", not Venom Of/To God.--RoninDH

Can we get some actual source on this? Both NationMaster and the JewishEncyclopaedia stand by "poison of god".

Really needs sourcing. From what I have read in books (and I really don't feel like working on this mess of an article) "poison of/to God" is usually rendered as "Sammael", with one book even making certain to note "not Samael". I'm thinking this is a conflation that has to do with how the syllables are written in English. Reading the "Lord of Peace" etymology above makes me think that yet another improper English rendering has been added to the mix. Hell, this entire article should probably go AfD and be re-start from scratch anyway if we can't get some sources up in here. --98.25.28.14 (talk) 19:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

 189.31.217.50 (talk) 15:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Samael in the Christian Bible

Has Samael ever been mentioned in any translation/version of the Christian Bible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.181.168.245 (talk) 09:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

No. Samael has not appeared in the OT (Unless you considered him Satan as Kabbalah does) nor the Nt. Xuchilbara (talk) 21:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

No. Samael is not mentioned in the Christian Bible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabbaoth (talk • contribs) 15:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually Samael/Lucifer is traditionally thought to be referenced in a poem in the old testament by a good number of christians. Kairos (talk) 07:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Although the Isaiah passage that refers to Lucifer is "Helel Ben Shahar" [Helel son of Shahar], a Canaanite deity, and metaphor for a Babylonian king. Xuchilbara (talk) 03:38, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

ANSI ARtist confusion.

Removed from the article as unverifiable (spectacularly fails the Google test — one hit for "sammael ansi artist", which no longer exists):

Sammael is the handle of an ANSI artist who was active in the scene from 1994 to 1999. He was a member of many high profile groups including Samsara, FiRE, CiA, Rile, and Anemia.

Uncle G 16:39, 2005 Jan 7 (UTC)

Many if not most ANSI artists are impossible to google as the web wasn't what it is today when the ANSI scene was alive. This link this linkshows much of his work:

Samael has veered very very very far from what would usually be labeled black metal. Progressive metal is a more accepted label, although the music is naturally unclassifiable.

In any case, an artist with the same name would have his own page(which would be called "Samael(ARtist)" or "Samael(singer)" etc...), at most he'd have link to that page here.

Lucifer and Satan

I edited out some of the parts concerning Lucifer and a explanation of why Lucifer is not Samael, although informative, it seemed to be written in a way that a great deal about Lucifer and not Samael, who this article is about, so I cut some of it.Xuchilbara 00:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Xuchilbara I think this article could be more clearly written, as things are very unclear. That's the main problem I see. (Hijou)

A number of religious traditions consider Lucifer, Satan, and Samael to be one and the same. Kairos (talk) 07:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Samael's primary mythology is Jewish. Not Christian. The name "Samael" is rarely used or said in a Christian context. You can only consider them the "same" from this context, which again, is rare. Xuchilbara (talk) 03:40, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Samael in other traditions

"Samael in Kabbalah is the Qliphoth corresponding to the sephirah Hod. It means "the poison of God", the liar and the jugglers, and the demons associated with it are described as dull-yellow, demon-headed dog-like monsters.[citation needed]

The Qliphoth is the unbalanced aspect of a particular sephirah. Hod is the sephirah concerned with rationalisation, intellectualism and the occult, that gives form to ideas, as opposed to Netzach, that is raw energy, the ability of passion to transcend form. Hod must be balanced with Qliphoth to prevent dullness that follows from complete rationalization of the world, such as that of the sceptic who believes he knows everything and dismisses many potentially joyous experiences out of hand. For this reason, Hod becomes Samael, the Liar, the Juggler, who through clever words and rationalisations denies the existence of anything higher or greater.[citations needed]"

I've been told that Samael is actually attributed to the sephira, Geburah. According to Gustav Davidson in "A Dictionary of Angels" on page 255. "In Waite, The Holy Kabbalah, p.255, Samael is characterized as the "severity of God" and is listed as 5th of the archangles of the world of Briah. Here he corresponds to the sefira Geburah." Samael and is also attributed to Mars, Geburah's planet. EGGO 05:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Samael does preside over Gevurah or Din as Archangel, and is attributed to Mars in this guise. Since the Prince of the Left-Hand Emanation had an ominous and dangerous aspect, however, the name was often written differently as Camael of Kamael or Khamael. Note that the Hebrew letter Kaph resembles a Samekh that has not been closed at the right. Whether this is a deliberate avoidance of writing the title in full or merely the result of bad transcription, I do not know. That said, yes, the cohorts of the Kelippot answering to the eighth emanation, Hod, are ascribed as "Samael" as well, though I suspect this was a matter of Mathers or Kircher or whoever either getting muddled or glossing over the true attribution as a blind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.213.144.148 (talk) 02:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Fictional Samaels

"In the first game in the Silent Hill series, Dahlia Gillespie, an antagonist, refers to a symbol as being the "Mark of Samael", which led many players to believe that the entity, refered to in the third game as "The God", was actually Samael. This was disproved when, later in the series, it is revealed that the mark is actually the "Seal of Metatron", as well as the fact that the incarnation of "The God" in the first game resembles Baphomet, not Samael."

A citation is needed here because Baphomet and Samael are a reference to the samething. I am not basing this off a video game but the occult itself. Although, I think the game makes this all pretty clear. Either some of you are over complicating and estimating a pretty simple storyline or are deliberately trying to misguide people like occultist tend to try and do. Your argument between Baphomet and Samael is an oxymoron along with several other peoples comments here. Here is just one reference. [1] Although, this site is incorrect about the traceable dated use of the inverted pentacle in rituals involving a symbolic sacrificial goat. It still serves its purpose here.--Theseus23 (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

This is was this article has to say about the fiction Samael, yet the account of Samael in the Silent Hill Mosters article is different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Silent_Hill_monsters

"Samael - The Incubus harbored within Alessa Gillespie that acts as the destructive hand of God, killed by Harry in Silent Hill 1. It is speculated whether or not Samael exists, or is just a lie told to Harry by Dahlia so she could trick him into helping her. Why she believed telling him this would get him to help her is anyone's guess, since Harry does not appear to be heavily versed in religion and demonology. In any case, it appears Dahlia was in fact telling the truth, the mark that appears throughout Silent Hill is that of Samael's, NOT the mark of Metatron. The Mark of Samael is a triangle within a twin circle that is filled with symbols - the mark we see in the games - whilst Metatron is a series of interconnected circles and lines that bear no resemblance to the mark we actually see."

Which one of these is correct?

I don't know, but neither of them deserve that much space in the article. Snip:

...which led many players to believe that the entity, referred to in the third game as "The God", was actually Samael. This was disproved when, later in the series, it is revealed that the mark is actually the "Seal of Metatron", as well as the fact that the incarnation of "The God" in the first game resembles Baphomet, not Samael. However, in Silent Hill 3 there is mention that those who despised the Cult's deity identified it with a demon (Samael)so Samael could be considered an outside name given to the deity.

I hope this offends no one, but that's a full paragraph explaining the plot of a video game. --Mgreenbe 00:54, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Again, Mgreenbe your stating that oxymoron between Samael and Baphomet.--Theseus23 (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

yep. And Metatron is said carries on a ceaseless battle with Samael. (and Alessa is using the seal of Metatron to kill "the god". So speculation on rather the incubus inside her is Samael remains.) 67.78.156.66 16:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

First off, the opposers of the Order in Silent Hill were said to give demonic names to the God. Memo in SH3:

"There is no religion that has

remained unchanged from the

moment it was founded.

This one is no exception.

When this religion fell into the

hands of immigrants, it was deeply

influenced by their own original

Christian beliefs.

For example, the traditional

representatives of these primal

gods may be given the names and

descriptions of Christian angels.

Thus shared characteristics begin

to appear.

(There is also one rare example

of the chief deity, "Creator of

Paradise" or "Lord of Serpents

and Reeds", being dubbed with

a demon's name. Of course, this

was not done by believers, but

by their opponents.)"

Lastly, we have that Dahlia didn't even know that the seal of Metatron was beig used by Alessa at all.

Then as far as Venom of God is concerned, could you cite the source were Samael's name does not translate to 'venom of God'? Because you know, Samael, for being one of the serpents in the Garden of Eden, has a relation to venom. [2] "Lord of Peace" is just simply too farfetched, not too mention Samael is the angel partly to blame for the fall of mankind. he also charcged with impregnanting Eve with Cain in his serpent form.[3] And as you know Silent Hill is full of Kabbalah, so I would think they don't have the idea that he's "nice".

Xuchilbara 18:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Where do some of you get some of this stuff??? Although, at first it might be kind of difficult to understand I think the base of the plot isn't that difficult to grasp. Too much over thinking on such a simple message and formula.

Ian Samael is a main character in the webcomic Errant Story. --Kestenvarn

"*In the game series Silent Hill, Samael is the demonic entity worshipped by the cult hidden in the town of Silent Hill, whose soul was ritually bound into the bodies of two sisters. His power is believed to be behind much of the series' supernatural happenings.

Those parts are entirely false. In fact I have no idea who the "two sisters" are or where that story came from, it isn't in game. Nor does the cult worship Samael, because their God is a female Solar diety. Xuchilbara 16:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Silent Hill

I decided to make a entire talk tribute page to the weird Silent Hill fan based speculations regarding Samael that seem to just eternally keep popping up here. If anybody wants to contest that on why its being removed and how factually inaccurate or accurate some of info, please do tell.

"

• Samael is the Demon God Ruler of Silent Hill In the First and Third Silent Hill Video Games For The Playstation 1 and Playstation 2. The Cult Group known as The Order worships him and they summoned him to the town. Samael Is Defeated by Harry Mason (the main character of the first Silent Hill) in the Good and Good+ ending of the Game.He Returns in the Third Game, Silent Hill 3 but is Defeated again for a final time by Harry Mason's Daughter Heather Morris (Cheryl Mason). Samael is still recovering in Silent Hill 2, and Is therefore not shown. He No longer is in power over the Demonic town when Silent Hill 4 Takes Place."

This was taken out because:

• 1. Samael is never mentioned in Silent Hill series, he's only mentioned in 1 through the "Mark of Samael".[4] The games and extra works do not state Samael's overall importance and the fact remains that he is only mentioned in Sh1 and does not appear anywhere else, not even in other documents.
• 2. See above document from the game of Silent Hill 3, in which God was not given demon names except by opposers.[5] Furthermore the God of the Order is a female Solar deity, not male as Samael is, obviously. And the SH creators stated that the supposed "Mark of Samael" has little or no profound signafigance and falls under the catagory of word play by Dahlia.[6] Any Silent Hill fan would know that its hard to trust everything Dahlia says as she is a known manipulater through words and attempts to decieve Harry multiple times.
• 3 The God Harry defeats in one is based of the image of God that Dahlia had, or more accurately the image of Baphomet. Its labeled as a incubus and dream demon by more than one official source. Samael is not a part of this incubi-succbea/night/dream class of demons, although his wife Lilith certinly is.
• 4. In the third game, the God that Heather defeats is made after the image of God that Claudia had. This is image is of Alessa and all the monster's parts are female, how could she be even remotely considered to be Samael?[7]
• 5. Samael and other Jewish figures have nothing to do with Silent Hill 2. They are not even mentioned. "Samael is still recovering in Silent Hill 2, and Is therefore not shown." That is speculation.
• 6."He No longer is in power over the Demonic town when Silent Hill 4 Takes Place." More speculation.

Xuchilbara 19:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The incorrect assertion that Samael is the cultist God of Silent Hill has been removed (probably again). The name is only ever used in reference to the "Mark of Samael", and Silent Hill 3 makes clear that this name is an intentional misnomer. I cited a source from the Silent Hill 3 file transcript, though I may not have the formatting correct--I'm new at this.

It is a difficult source to verify by text because there is no text in the game stating outright that the Seal of Metatron/Virun VII Crest is the same object as the so-called "Mark of Samael". You learn this by seeing the two and making a visual comparison, and I can't think of any way to translate that into a workable method on Wikipedia. I just wanted to make this clarification so that the change is not reverted to its original, inaccurate state. There is no entity within Silent Hill named Samael. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iungwu (talk • contribs) 22:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

--Ryan (talk) 22:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Anthrosophism

I give up. What the hell is 'Anthrosophism'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.128.44 (talk) 00:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

It's just a typo. Cyb3r (talk) 01:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Redirect from Göap

Could someone write some text telling what "Göap" is and why it redirects here? 71.90.130.7 (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Samael's wikipage suffering vandalism.

Hello friends.

I need help in order to revert some unsourced vandalisms that are happening in the page.

Archangel Of FireArchangel of Fire (talk) 14:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

article contradictions

I though AZRAEL is the angel of death the article for Azrael claims he is the Islamic and Judaeochristian angel of death

Semi-nonsense

There's a lot of poorly-worded gibberish near the end of the article that seems to have been written by someone to whom English is a second language. While the author seems to have a lot of detail concerning the topic, the way it's written is messy and doesn't make a lot of sense.76.186.52.32 (talk) 19:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Non-Technicality of Early Languages

Although it is true that Samael does not mean "Poison of God" and that its origin is not of a negative derivation, we need to remember that the early languages were not exact, and transcriptions often did not change names thought they did change meanings to new culture's beliefs and words. Therefore, there also exists evidence that says the meaning of Samael is "The Desolate One". This not withstanding, that was always one of the main difficulties in translating these ancient languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Uwriel Immortallo (talk • contribs) 13:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The translation of ancient languages, is of course especially difficult for those who do not know the language in question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.125 (talk) 19:35, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Samael meaning "blind god"?

The name Samael is mentioned once in the Apocryphon of John, with no elaboration. What is the source of the claim that its meaning in this context is "blind god"? What is the source of the claim that "the theme of blindness" runs "throughout gnostic works"? Where is his appearance described as "a lion-faced serpent" or "a blind soldier"? 24.179.143.119 (talk) 04:03, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

New stuff goes at the bottom. I've added a reference for the lion-faced serpent (it's contextual, but it's there). I remember seeing something that could be used as a source for the other two commments somewhere, but it's quarter past midnight where I am, and I may get to go out with my girlfriend tomorrow, so it'll have to wait (sorry). Ian.thomson (talk) 04:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for the quick response (and for moving this to the bottom; I've never edited much, so I don't really know protocol). I found the lion-faced serpent description as you linked it, but it's directly in reference to the name Yaltabaoth -- which, in the context of this Apocryphon at least, is supposed to be the same being as Samael, but are the three names entirely interchangeable, or do they name different forms/faces/manifestations of this being? Even if we assume the names are interchangeable, I think it should be noted in the article that the lion-faced serpent description is given to this being under the name Yaltabaoth. Does that seem reasonable? Also, I note that the article on Demiurge says: “Samael” literally means “Blind God” or “God of the Blind” in Aramaic (Syriac sæmʕa-ʔel). If that's true, why does this article on Samael specify the name only means that "in this context" (of the Apocryphon of John)? Are there other interpretations?24.179.143.119 (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

IIRC, different gnostic groups came up with different meanings. The Apocryphon of John does go with Yaldabaoth/Saklas/Samael being different names for the same being, so I dunno if we even need to mention that it's directed at Yaldabaoth (it'd be kinda like taking some description of El Shaddai in the Hebrew Bible being directed at El Elyon in some other text, and pointing out it was originally towards El Shaddai, different title, same being). Also, while (or rather because) I didn't get to see my girlfriend today, I'm not going to doing more work today, sorry, I'm going to be irresponsible and watch a movie to distract me. ... I've also got church, and I've gotta get to the DMV... It may be a bit, but I will try to dig up those sources. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:25, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It may mean "God of the Blind" in Aramaic but in Hebrew it means "Poison of a God". 99.56.174.63 (talk) 10:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Samuel is Latin. Could this be Samael a patron of Rome?

Have you noticed the simularities of the name Samael to Samuel? Since Samuel is not the real pronunciation of the Hebrew prophet it is logical to conclude that it also has another meaning other then "Shemuwel" (real spelling) which means "Heard by God". Yes Samuel has the same meaning as Samael which means "Poison of a God". No wonder Sammy Davis Jr felt compelled to join the Church of Satan but before he died denounced them for Jesus (Yeshuwa). Samael is said to be an archangel that is often viewed as being Satan. Something to think about. Better to choose the spelling Shemuwel or Shemuel when naming a son. Also I noticed in the Samuel article that "Samuel" is Latin. Were the Latinese deliberatly trying to honor and worship Samael by changing Shemuwel to Samuel? It would appear so because the Samael article reveals that Samael was a patron of the Roman empire. Interesting. I wonder how many other Biblical names have been this cleverly subverted? 99.56.174.63 (talk) 07:49, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Wow, your information is off. Sammy Davis Jr. (a Jew, who didn't convert back to Christianity) did not join the (atheistic) Church of Satan, the title of Reverend is something they hand out to people they revere for whatever reason. They could hand it out to Jesus if they wanted. Also, the Hebrew for Samael (סמאל) and Samuel (שְׁמוּאֵל) are different, there is a ו present in Samuel. In Latin, they're still different (U and A are not the same letter). I've only seen English speakers get the two mixed up, for whatever reason. Also, you've got it backwards, some Jews decided that Samael was the patron of Rome, Rome didn't give a rat's patoot about Samael, and they never worshipped Samuel (after becoming Christians, they liked him, but not anymore any Christians of any other race).

Latinese? WTF? Dude, seriously, you really don't know what you're talking about. The Romans spoke Latin (and before them, the Latins), not the "Latinese." Your views of the Romans almost border on superstitious racism. Ian.thomson (talk) 12:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't speaking of the Hebrew spellings of Samael verses Samuel but the way the Hebrew name Shemuwel was "transliterated" by the Latin speaking people of Rome to Samuel which is almost the same as Samael. Obviously because the Jews did say that Samael was the patron of Rome so they must have took it to heart and decided to venerate him instead of choosing a true translieration of Shemuwel. I was being funny when I said Latinese. It is still proper English though. I don't have to speak the Queen's English. As far as Sammy Davis Jr was concerned he said before he died that the only reason he joined the church of Satan was "for the chicks". 99.56.174.63 (talk) 13:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Taken from Yahoo Answers: Myth 27 ASL was a close friend of Sammy Davis, Jr. and inducted him into the Church of Satan. Sammy Davis, Jr. was invited to accept an honorary membership in the Church of Satan by Michael Aquino. After Davis sent Aquino his acceptance on March 17, 1973, he was presented with the honorary membership on April 13, 1973 by Aquino and Karla LaVey alone. ASL did not meet Davis until August 1973. Davis would later renounce Satanism, claiming later he was "only into it for the chicks" and re-embraced Judaism. At a nationaly televised event honoring him a few weeks before he died, Davis said "First of all, I want to thank Jesus for letting me be here tonight", completely shattering any doubt he had any lingering affinty to Satanism. Davis had been an activist for civil rights, and battled racism, in contrast to the racists and Neo-nazis that often embrace Satanism. [SOURCES: Davis letter to Aquino 3/17/73; Church of Satan Priesthood Bulletin 4/30/73; Aquino, COS, Chapter 23; Sammy Davis, Hollywood in a Suitcase (pre-publication text, printed in Daily News, New York, 9/11/80), Karla LaVey.]

                    Source(s):          http://usminc.org/satanism.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.56.174.63 (talk) 13:45, 28 October 2010 (UTC) 

There is no evidence of the Romans venerating Samael, you're just making that up to justify paranoid and racist fantasies. In various other instances, the Hebrew Sh became the Latin S, such as did with the names Jesus, Moses, Hosea, Isaac, Solomon... Clearly, it was just a more familiar sound to the Roman tongue. Latin also lacked a W, that was brought into the alphabet by later languages, so they could not have transliterated it as Shemuwel. You are once again showing you don't know anything about the Latin language or the Romans. Only some Jews said that Samael was the patron of Rome. Latinese isn't proper English.

Yahoo Answers is user generated content with no editorial oversight, and no fact checkers. There are also Neo-Nazis and racists that embrace Christianity, and Satanists that reject neo-Nazism, so the contrast at the end doesn't really demonstrate anything. The source given is a personal website meant to push a POV, not a reliable source. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:28, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Samael in the White Wolf rpg Vampire the Masquerade.

In the old World of Darkness setting for White_Wolf's Vampire:_the_Masquerade Samael is named as the progenitor of the Salubri clan of vampires. 67.149.196.9 (talk) 17:48, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

That... Doesn't exactly affect culture. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Which... Would be relevent if I were suggesting the creation of a new article page. 67.149.196.9 (talk) 09:51, 9 February 2011 (UTC)