Talk:Cigarette

I deleted the line in "Consumption" that said Greece has the highest rate of adult smokers in the world, at 80 percent. This contradicts data from both the WHO and Encarta online which suggests that Greece a smoking rate of 38 percent, which doesn't even rank in the top 20 smoking countries.

See

http://encarta.msn.com/media_701500668_761579162_1_1/Prevalence_of_Smoking_by_Country_in_the_World.html

What about the different kinds of cigarettes and packs, like hard pack, soft pack, 100's, menthols, etc? Urbster1 05:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Visa and MasterCard really refuse payment for online cigarette stores? I doubt that as I am curently smoking a cigarette I aquired n just this way.

Can anyone write about Eclipse, Accord and Star Tobacco? These are so-called "safer cigarettes."

Smoking increases the metabolic rate? Really? I have never heard of someone loosing weight by taking up smoking, although the converse is of course very true: I myself went from W31 to W34 after quitting smoking, and had to replace all my pants. Mkweise

I have known people who've lost weight by taking up smoking, not that I'd advise it.

Aren't Djarum only a brand of clove cigarettes? I didn't think they make plain tobacco cigs. Matt gies 18:18, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

They don't, but the article is about cigarettes, not plain tobacco cigarettes. (BTW, the only brand on the list that's made from only tobacco, without additional flavorings, is American Spirit.) Mkweise 19:27, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It's pretty much impossible to find a cigarette that doesn't have additives (American Spirit and Winston claim not to have additives, but I have heard it alleged that although their tobacco is unadulterated, they simply move all the nasty chemicals to the paper wrapper instead). But even still, everything else on the list is a tobacco cigarette, adulterated or not. Whereas most people conceive of clove cigs as a different genre entirely. I would restrict the list to tobacco. Matt gies 19:37, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Clove cigarettes have tobacco in them, the clove is only a flavoring added to the cigarette. I should know, I have a package of Djarum Black sitting in front of me!

This page could use a bit of polishing... User:Teen_smoker_guy

Cigarettes effect on drivers

1. One guy was blowing smoke out the window as he rear ended another car at a red light. Not very fast, but good enough to be funny. 2. A pretty girl flicked a butt out the window just as a cop rolled up alongside. The butt bounced across the cops hood, and then its roof lights went on. Duh! 3. A trucker driving a dump truck which had dual fuel tanks under the cab doors. The driver flicked the butt STRAIGHT DOWN, BOUNCING IT OFF THE TANK. For about 1/25 of a second, my clutch hand fought my brain, and the brain won. The truck was obviously burning diesel, I thought, and diesel will actually put out a fire under normal atmospheric conditions. And even if it were gasoline I doubted the truck would have caught light. Still, it was an exciting 1/25 of a second. Better yet... is when you're riding your motorcycle you get a red hot butt in your:

 1) face (for all you 3/4ths out there) 
 2) jacket
 3) crotch

i've always wanted to pick up the butt and throw it back in the window of the perpetrator, but typically i just freak out and toss it away (not into other motorcyclists, mind you...)

Since both car drivers and cigarette smokers are engaging in singularly dumb-ass activities, I don't find it so surprising that their dumb-assedness not so infrequently crosses the boundary between domains and becomes a kind of interdisciplinary dumb-assery. Sure, it's a pain, but what do you expect from anyone selfish enough to poison the planet or dumb enough to poison themselves?

Note: the above testimonials come from an Everything2 node on the subject of "cigarette butt-throwing dumb-ass drivers". —No-One Jones 05:15, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Dumbass?

The only dumbass I see is the one who has nothing better to do but call nicotine addicts dumbasses. I guess you don't believe in civil rights; it's my civil right to smoke cigarettes, whether the smoke is going to kill me or not, it's my choice, not the government's. I toss cigarettes out the window as often as possible just to piss liberals like you off. The day it becomes a crime to smoke (which I do see in the future in this "free" country we call America), I'm moving to Mexico. People like you hate freedom, you want to take away as much of it as you possibly can..

Consider this me blowing smoke in your face, and tossing a butt on your front lawn.

--Ddhix 2002 14:33, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, blowing smoke in one's face and tossing a butt on one's front lawn, thus restricing one's right to clean air and a litter free garden. I guess you don't believe in civil rights. --Thomas 18:48, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

PS (from Wikipedia's "Liberalism" article) "The word "liberal" derives from the Latin "liber" ("free") and liberals of all stripes tend to see themselves as friends of freedom...". You seem to be a little misinformed in your choice of words.

NONSENSE

The only reason people have problems with smokers is because they need someone to pick on. But why cripple the tobacco industry just becuuse its in vogue to complain about smokers? What about the hundreds of thousands of people who chain smoked for years without any ill effects? randazzo56 3-03-06

UK cigarette packaging

Can someone find a better picture of some UK cigarette packaging. The example on the main page looks like it was picked up off the ground - which is where you see most of those things anyway in the UK.

Junk science

This is ridiculous. Wikipedia doesn't call things "junk science". Stop adding your own opinion to the article. Also re: Howrealisreal's edit summary, how in the world would one prove that something "is not factual"? The burden is on you to properly attribute POV phrases. It's not my burden to prove that the tobacco industry's science is or is not "junk science". Original argument like that is beyond the scope of Wikipedia. Rhobite 19:45, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

I've breifly included why the scientific studies conducted by the tobacco industry are considered to be "junk science". You cannot claim to be NPOV when the content of the article equalizes the tobacco industry's studies with more objective, peer-reviewed scientific research that are clearly at a different level of validity. I agree my inital edits were incorrect because I did not say why they are 'junk' studies. --Howrealisreal 20:08, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Fine, this is going on RFC. That's YOUR opinion that the studies are "deeply flawed". Don't add your opinion to encyclopedia articles. Hey look everyone, I guess it's OK for an encyclopedia article to badmouth big tobacco! Since they're so evil and all, the NPOV policy doesn't apply here. The only time we have to attribute opinions is when they're unpopular: Don't you dare say that the 2004 U.S. election was not stolen, or that Bill Gates isn't really the antichrist. But by all means, criticize evil corporations all you like. Everyone agrees with you, no need for a cite! Rhobite 20:11, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

No, I am just a representitive of this POV. I did not come up with this idea on my own, I was taught this. I think you are being very shallow in making this seem more personal than it really is. --Howrealisreal 20:19, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oh lovely, I'm the one being shallow. Thanks for setting me straight, didn't realize you were the self-appointed representative of anti-tobacco POV. Your lofty self-granted status doesn't give you the right to boldly insert, um, the opinions of your constituents into articles. Rhobite 20:23, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

I think we have gotten as far as we can with this. I respect your point of view on this topic and perhaps I am mislead by feeling that you do not feel the same way towards how I feel. I am happy to allow this issue to be settled by general wikipedia consensus rather than continuing to argue in this pointless manner. I am sorry if I have vexed you, that is what happens when passionate wikipedia contributors clash I guess. --Howrealisreal 20:28, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

RFC response: "junk science" is pure POV. You can say that other scientific studies not sponsored by the tobacco industry have discredited them, you can say that their methodology was criticised, and you can say that there is a general distrust of studies funded by those who are on one side of a contentious argument, and you can even say they are regarded as "junk science" by anti-smoking campaigners, but you can't just say they are "junk science" even if you provide the reasons. It's an expression of opinion. Read the NPOV policy and it is quite clear. David File:Arms-westminster-lb.jpg | Talk 20:30, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

RFC response: The above comments by Dbiv/David express my opinion on this question flawlessly. Tverbeek 17:26, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

(Also a RFC response) Here's a possible wording(I would have added it but I'm too tired right now to find a source, and I think it needs one): "According to {As reputable a source possible}, these studies were deeply flawed due to their strong bias and poor methodology, and were considered to be junk science." Howrealisreal, would you find a reputable web page(guesses: Americian Cancer Society, Science mag article, or something like that) to put in as a source for this? (Make sure they do say the studies were flawed for the reasons listed and that they do refer to them as junk science. I agree with you as for the facts, but the glory of NPOV is that sourced facts are better, and I agree with that even more. Thanks to all of you for contributing to the 'pedia. JesseW 10:13, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks everyone for your guidance. I plan on using this source [1]: It's a prosecution memo written by Congressman Martin Meehan to Attorney General Janet Reno in 1994 that details how many administrators from the tobacco industry suppressed scientific information about the adverse health effects of cigarettes. For simplicity you can scroll down to the part about Joseph Taddeo, where the memo specifically uses the term "junk science" to talk about his attempt to claim that nicotine is non-addictive even though his own research proved otherwise. Furthermore, you can see countless other examples in this source that support my stance, specifically how many administrators and researchers of the tobacco industry were charged with:

DECEPTION OF PUBLIC, 15 U.S.C. §52(A)(2)
PERJURY, 18 U.S.C. §1621
DECEPTION OF CONGRESS, 18 U.S.C. §1001

I know it's not the end-all-be-all, but I think this substantiates my position. --Howrealisreal 19:06, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Another RfC response: Obviously the tobacco industry uses junk science, but, for better or worse, we can't simply assert that obvious point as fact. We can and should present it as an opinion, properly attributed to a notable spokesperson. Another example of the use of the specific term is at [2], reprinting material from the American Journal of Public Health, including a reference to "the tobacco industry's 'junk science' arguments", although this may be in the context of second-hand smoke rather than the effect on smokers. (By the way, the article might be improved by adding a reference to the issue of second-hand smoke, also sometimes referred to as environmental tobacco smoke. I live in New York City, where smoking is banned in most workplaces ([3]) because of concern about this issue.) JamesMLane 17:05, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This is interesting. Do you think there should be some type of merge with tobacco smoking? Especially see the talk for another discussion of junk science in the reverse context. --Howrealisreal 18:09, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No, I don't think there should be a merger. The two topics are different. Not all tobacco smoking is by means of cigarettes, and not all cigarettes are made of tobacco. As it stands, each article links to the other, but this one notes that some cigarettes are not tobacco, and the tobacco smoking article mentions that cigars are also an option. I think that's exactly the right way to do it. JamesMLane 20:52, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Brand section

The Brand section really needs some cleanup/improvement. I think it should only list the top 10 or so brands(by sales, probably) and a small(like 7 or less) collection of other noteable brands. Each of them should have a short explanation of why they are notable following the link. I just removed an external link added by an annon just today. I've added explanations to some of the ones on the list, but I don't know enough about cigarettes to fix most of them. Help is requested. Thoughts, responses, etc? JesseW 20:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Turkey?

Even during Ramadan?

Not sure , maybe not in public during Ramadan.

cannabis??

I've done some minor edits removing the cannabis references - check the history but the jist was that cogareetes are the common name for cannabis joints etc and it was going into the manufacturing process of joints...

So I just changed them to Tobacco but there might be a couple of references still there.

I just finished reading through the article and there seems to be a large amount of marijuana refrences when they should be refrences to tobacco - wes

Treatment with chemicals

Not all brands are chemically treated; therefore, the statement in the main article is misleading. Nat Sherman brand cigarettes (I only mention because this is the brand I smoke and know best), for example, contain no additives, fiber-glass, etc. Ix

They still will kill you.

Does your assertion that "Non-treated Cigarettes will still kill me" justify the blanket statement that all cigarettes are treated with chemicals prior to sale?

Cigarettes will still kill me, so all cigarettes are treated with chemicals? Thats a non-sequitor if I've ever seen one. I am going to revise the article, since no one has raised any objections. Ix

I'm going to remove the "cigarettes contain 4,000 chemicals" statement. It's a bit too alarmist for a Wikipedia article, and has more of a place in anti-smoking propaganda. People usually think of chemicals as something bad and unnatural, when in reality, most plants contain hundreds or thousands of chemicals.--Aleron235 23:18, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The statement is that "tobacco smoke contains". Maybe its positioning in the article causes an unfair perception that the cigarettes are all treated bathed in chemicals during production. Either way, there should be a source for this. My personal experience is that the second-hand smoke haze has gotten worse since about 2001. It smells a lot worse and is a lot thicker. Makes me wonder if there's genetically modified tobacco in addition to the chemicals.--Pro-Lick 16:26, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've searched for the actual categorization and quantitation of the chemicals present in cigarette smoke, but all I can find are uncited anti-smoking research papers with the same numbersIx

Max. quantity of tar gas

Etymology of 100s

If anyone knows why "100s" are called "100s", please let me know on my talk page. I thought it was from 100mm, but I didn't have a metric ruler at my workplace, and i'm unlikely to remember to bring one in next time to measure those things when i'm bored. Karmafist 03:13, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. Ix 06:04, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I take it 100 is mm, hence 10cm. Where did this terminology originate from, as in the UK you can buy King Size, and Super Kingsize (which are approx the same length as 100mm) alhtough in the last 5 years or so i've seen these "100's" appearing more commonly so i'm gussing that 100's is a US term but I thought the US used imperial measurement. Strange eh? (Martin / UK / 04:39am, Feb 13th)

Second Hand Smoke

This part of the article is troubling:

" as well as second-hand smoke inhalation show no increase in lung cancer rates among U.S. white males in all credited observational studies."

There are many commercials today about people who did not smoke, and yet worked in restaurants where other people smoked and got cancer. There's even a lady who goes around lecturing people because this happened to her.

Where's the credible evidence that second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer? Accountable Government 08:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is no hard evidence either way. Plus, people can get lung cancer without exposure to tobacco, something people often fail to realize. With the different carcinogens people are exposed to every day, it's really difficult to determine one source that causes the cancer. I too though, would like to see some references to credible studies. It's troubling that the only source listed for this article is a single book from 1978.--Aleron235 02:15, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sale

The first paragraph of the Sale section seems like it would fit better under History.

"Major tobacco companies also pack their cigarettes differently, using the longer more potent section of the tobacco leaf in the end, and moving the short cut pieces in the front (also known as "shake"). The hybrid tobacco leaves a more potent addiction effect this way."

Does hybrid here mean the mixture of the two kinds of tobacco or a hybrid tobacco plant? How does this affect addiction? --Gbleem 17:29, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Slang terms for cigarettes

This section has gotten too long and is completely unorganized. In my opinion, a good course of action is to move it to its own page: List of slang terms for cigarettes. GilliamJF 06:32, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added REAL slang terms in Norwegian for Cigaretts, why where they removed?--Fantact 01:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Devanatha 00:45, 22 April 2006 Removed chapter on Norwegian slang terms because of irrelevancy (this is an article in English) and uncorrectness: "In Norway Cigarettes are commonly called "sigg"(for a single cigarette) Uninteresting "gerro"(used by foreigners or immigrants) Irrelevant, not Norwegian. or "rørdd"(most commonly by Norwegians in eastern areas of oslo), No such word. If it were, it wouldn't be spelt like this. hand rolled cigarettes are often called "rullings". True, but uninteresting.

I was bold, and alphabetized what was a sloppy, unorganized list of slang terms for cigarettes. I moved it in its entirety to List_of_street_names_of_drugs#Cigarette. There you'll find every slang term you could want for cigarettes, alcohol, cannibis, etc. GilliamJF 07:09, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality

Obviously we walk a fine line here where it might be better to err on the side of keeping people away from smoking, but I think it would be best if we do not err at all.

Thus I would like to suggest that this article is not living up to the standards of NPOV. In my opinion, entire sections ought to be rewritten with the aim of greater neutrality.

May I also say that, even despite neutrality issues, I believe this article to be quite good. Good work all.

Ambiguity

In other countries, such as Egypt, however, there is no legal smoking age at all.

As in, it's illegal to smoke at any age? Or there's no minimum age, meaning anyone can legally smoke? Can someone who knows fix the phrasing? —Etaoin (talk) 16:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Impotency

hmm... interesting facts about impotency! Did you know what Heavy smokers have higher impotency risk!? Read here - [4]