Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 1980

Fair use rationale for Image:ESC1980.jpg

Image:ESC1980.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Returning countries

What is the significance of "Returning countries" in the side bar ? Turkey is the only country listed but surely others were returning as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.113.105.186 (talk) 00:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Voting error

I was using a Eurovision scoreboard simulator and used the exact voting from the 1980 scoreboard. Afterwards, Greece ended with 29 points, not 30. How many points did Greece actually end up with? --Ajitirj (talk) 13:46, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

The results used in the article can be found on the Eurovision website: [1]. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 14:21, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

the norwegian song caused german viewers to turn off their tvs or change channels

it should be noted on the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 09:49, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Austrian commentator

Hello,

I just wanted to point out that the commentator for ORF in 1980 was different. It was Günther Ziesel, an ORF journalist who was known for presenting the entertainment programme "Tip" and "Zeit im Bild 2" on Austrian television, as well as presenting the TV magazine programme "Alpen-Donau-Adria." I understand that the previous source supposedly verifies that Grissemann was the commentator for Austrian television that year, but here are some exceptions:

1979- Max Schautzer 1980- Günther Ziesel 1990- Barbara Stöckl 1991- Herbert Dobrovolny

Also, compare the Austrian commentated versions of ESC 1980 and another contest commentated by Grissemann: 1980: 1. Contest commentated by Grissemann: 2. The voices aren't the same. Thanks, Collin Butler. 75.117.124.215 (talk) 16:50, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately we cannot use those YouTube links as sources as they do not belong to the official broadcasting channel, and using such would go against copyrights. Youtube videos would have to come from a Youtube channel that is connected to the host broadcaster for that year's contest or the Eurovision official channel. Also the actions you kept doing go against edit warring and you're lucky not to have received a block in all fairness. Also this source verifies that the Austrian commentator was Ernst Grissemann at Eurovision 1980. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 17:14, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but the commentators were probably added by a user, since like Wikipedia, the IMDb can be edited by anyone. The only difference is that you have to have an account before you can edit the IMDb. Also, did you at least view the videos and compare them? 75.117.124.215 (talk) 17:26, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you really expect me to waste my time viewing those? I have better things to be doing. And that is a big allegation claim to make about IMDb. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 17:30, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Whoa, calm down there. I was not rude to you, so why be rude to me? I was only stating that there was an error because I watched the Eurovision 1980 with Austrian commentary and his voice was not the same as Grissemann's. So I gave you these two videos for comparison to prove my point, that's all. Regarding the IMDb, read the following Wikipedia section in the IMDb article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Movie_Database#Copyright.2C_vandalism.2C_and_error_issues 75.117.124.215 (talk) 17:41, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

I was not being rude, I was just saying that I have not the time to view those videos, as I am extremely busy on other aspects of this Encyclopaedia and also WikiProject Eurovision. As this is clearly a content dispute, then this will require a more broader input from other project members. There are 2 members of Project EUrovision who work for eurovision.tv, so we could ask them if they have evidence regarding the Austrian commentator. Or wait until the EBU have uploaded all of the contests, as part of their 60th anniversary celebrations. The we would know for sure who the commentators are. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 17:46, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

I understand. Regarding the EBU uploading all of the contests, it is unlikely that the EBU will have uploaded the 1980 contest with Austrian commentary, but we'll see. Maybe consulting an Austrian TV guide published around that time or asking the ORF (the Austrian broadcaster, as you probably know) might help as well. 75.117.124.215 (talk) 17:52, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

We cannot contact the Austrian broadcaster directly to obtain this information, as that constitutes original research, a policy that should not be violated. There is this YuoTube channel that has all the shows, but there is no indication if it belongs to the EBU. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 17:55, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

If the information were obtained from accessing a newspaper from a library, would that violate the Original Research policy? I mean, I don't think it would, given that it was published. 75.117.124.215 (talk) 18:06, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the YouTube link you posted, I think there is a copyright notice for EBU if you click on "More Info" ("All Rights © (year) EBU/(host broadcaster)), but I doubt that it is operated by EBU. Also, the 1980 edition in their channel has BBC commentary. I don't like bothering people, I really don't. I'm only trying to help. 75.117.124.215 (talk) 18:12, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Found a clear and reliable source that verifies Ernst as commentators at the 1980 Contest. This source from the official Eurovision website for German broadcaster NDR, states that Ernst was the commentator between 1970 and 1998. I very much doubt they would publish lies and factual errors. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 18:13, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm not saying they're 100% wrong, I was just pointing out that the commentator in 1980 did not sound like Grissemann. Also, while it may say that he was the commentator from 1970 to 1998 (which is mostly true), it does not necessarily mean that he was the commentator consecutively during that period, if you know what I mean. I think exceptions are sometimes trivial details when dealing with a timespan of activity. Just wanted to point that out to you. No hard feelings. 75.117.124.215 (talk) 18:33, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Those other links you provided, I have listened to them. The voices are the same. Don't forget our voice changes over the years, as we get older. So in 1980 Ernst would sound younger than he would in 1992. Plus the 1980 commentary was done via telephone, whereas the 1992 commentary was via microphone from a commentary booth. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 18:17, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I understand that (the voice changing when getting older), but Grissemann has a very, very distinct voice. Plus, Grissemann was born in 1934, whereas Ziesel was born in 1941 (information retrieved from German Wikipedia). Also, if you listen carefully at the 1:39 mark on the link I provided you with the 1980 contest, he says: "Aus Den Haag in Holland begrüßt Sie heute Günther Ziesel." (From The Hague in Holland, Günther Ziesel welcomes you today) Please try to understand that I'm not trying to start a war, and if I did, it was unintentional. 75.117.124.215 (talk) 18:33, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Could you please remember to sign your comments directly after the last word using ~~~~. Also it may seem that both the TV and Radio commentators are incorrect. Reading further into the source from NDR, it notes that Ernst worked for ORF Radio, not ORF Television; and that he was the radio commentator for Eurovision between 1970 to 1998. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 18:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I did, but apparently, I didn't notice to do it again after I edited my reply. Back to the NDR source, while I agree that Grissemann worked for radio (and is verified by the Wikipedia article), it does not necessarily mean that he cannot work outside of radio. For example, according to the German Wikipedia entry for Ernst Grissemann (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Grissemann), he was the ORF (TV) commentator for the annual New Year's Concert from 1983 to 2007. He also hosted the Ingeborg-Bachmann-Preis ceremony (an Austrian literary award) from 1988 to 1997. (The ceremony was broadcast on TV)

75.117.124.215 (talk) 18:58, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, so this is non-the-wiser then. I think I shall ask one of the EBU/eurovision.tv members to see if they know of any sources that would clear this up. Wes Mouse | ^T@lk 19:04, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

could anybody replace the pictures with colored ones

as the contest was in color the pictures should also be in color. who agrees with me?84.213.46.153 (talk) 13:23, 23 January 2015 (UTC)