Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kingsley Bryce

Kingsley Bryce

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Concern was that the article fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. PROD contested by another user. Claiming that he will be making his pro debut shortly, which is a crystal ball violation. – Michael (talk) 04:23, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Michael, sorry for violating the crystal ball violation but it states in these articles [1] [2] that they are traveling with the team and that they are both gonna start for the team in the near future. If this deletion can just wait a while it is very likely it will happen that's why they were sent down. If not i'll just remake the page if he does end up starting or appearing in a game with Saint Louis or any other fully professional team. Da Drewster (talk) 05:44, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. – Michael (talk) 04:26, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Saint Louis FC - I think that's sufficient as people may look for information on him due to recent loan. Additionally this way the article can easily be recreated when he does play, which I agree does sound imminent. —Мандичка^YO 😜 05:53, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:NFOOTY as has not played senior international football nor played in a fully professional league. No indication that subject has garnered significant reliable coverage for any other achievements to satisfy GNG. Travelling with the team does not mean they will play anytime soon, once the player does pass a notability guideline then the article can be recreated / undeleted. Fenix down (talk) 08:39, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the claim that he will be making his pro debut shortly is made by his coach Frank Yallop in [3]. As such this is most certainly NOT a WP:CRYSTAL violation. Nfitz (talk) 11:20, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Actually Nfitz, you might want to reread that source. The article talks about two players going on loan and the article seems pretty clear that it is Magee who is going on loan and will, play in St. Louis and get a game under his belt - about 60 minutes (which is what I assume you are refrencing). Comments about Brice are limited to a much more nebulous, This loan is a great opportunity for Kingsley to get meaningful games under his belt. he may well play, but the guarantee provided in the source cited is not about him unfortunately. WP:CRYSTAL still applies here. Fenix down (talk) 12:26, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - the article seems pretty clear to me. And the quote you've provided does make it clear that he was sent down in order to get playing time. Not sure what your seeing in that quote that I'm not. There's multiple media coverage for this transfer of Kingsley, including http://www.csnchicago.com/fire/fire-send-magee-bryce-usl-affiliate-saint-louis-loan which notes that Bryce's loan will encompass a more prolonged period as Yallop intends for the former Saint Louis University Billiken to get an extended run of games. That seems pretty clear to me, that he's been sent down to get games. As such, there is nothing in WP:CRYSTAL that is applicable here. Fenix down, you might want to read and other references. If we delete this article, we'll simply be wasting everyone's time, when it's recreated in a few days. Nfitz (talk) 15:32, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Exactly, he's been sent down with the intention of getting games, that is completely different to guaranteeing he will get any game time. After all, he could step under a bus today. Once he plays he is notable, at the moment he is not by any guideline. I would also recommend you re-read WP:CRYSTAL as it specifically advises editors to, Avoid predicted sports team line-ups, which are inherently unverifiable and speculative. This is essentially the same as predicting that player will play soon, at least I see no fundamental difference in spirit. I'll happily change my view if plays while this AfD is open and have no problem personally undeleting the article should he meet any guideline at a later date, that literally takes two seconds. Fenix down (talk) 15:42, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:04, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - The fact that we do not apply WP:NFOOTBALL prematurely is an incredibly well established consensus, having been universally applied at afd for as long as the guideline has existed. Until he actually plays, the article does not does not meet WP:NFOOTBALL and in the absence of significant coverage fails WP:GNG as well. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:57, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]