Talk:Banat

Banat

I agree that "Banat" by itself means the serbian/romanian/hungarian banat. But look at the article text and at the picture. Like this, it sounds like "Banat" by itself means the Romanian part. And BTW, always? Zocky 11:45, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The text attached to the map clearly said that is the Romanian (part of) Banat. Serbs called their part "Voivodina", but romanians called their part "Banat" -- MihaiC

This page seems a bit romanocentric to me as well. The map only indicates the Romanian part of the Banat, and the msg: below does not mention the "Historical Regions of the Habsburg Empire" or so, but just other Romanian regions. Fransvannes 23:39, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think article is fine. I uploaded here map of Serbian Banat as well as map of Banat during Austro-Hungarian rule (So, article is complete now). PANONIAN

Banat region

is there a region Banat ? i understand there was a Elayet of Temesvar, that encompased all the teritory of Banat. but when exactly was Banat known as Banat, having a defined administrative status as Banat region/province/elayet/bansag ? -- Criztu 28 June 2005 12:43 (UTC)

Here is quote from the article: It received the title of Banat after the Treaty of Passarowitz (1718), and remained a separate province of Habsburg Monarchy under military administration until 1751, when Maria Theresa introduced a civil administration. The Banat province was abolished in 1778. The southern part of the Banat remained part of the Military Frontier (Banat Krajina) until it was abolished in 1871. So, Austrian province named Banat existed between 1718 and 1778. Today, Banat is geographical region. User:PANONIAN

History

have to be revised: - Ajtony was orthodox before the Great Scism??? - what Serbian uprisign are we talking?? not even the Serbs history Wiki Page speaks about such an uprising? - No words about the Serbian Conquest ... --fz22 12:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The eastern form of Christianity existed before the Great Scism. The Great Scism was only official split of two branches of Christianity, but de facto division existed before that. PANONIAN (talk) 13:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, but using this modern form 'Orthodox' is bizarre. Plus is a lame excuse which follows the formula: Othodox->vlach or slav->had nothing to do with Arpad's Magyars->opponent of the feudal Hungarian state->the Kingdom conquered the region etc etc

Sorry, but even Hungarian historians used term 'Orthodox' to describe the religion of Ahtum (Peter Rokai, Zoltan Đere, Tibor Pal, Aleksandar Kasaš, Istorija Mađara, Beograd, 2002). I do not see how else we can describe this. PANONIAN (talk) 19:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so ... They have used "gorog-keleti" instead ... the term "Byzantine-Rite" is more adequate here--fz22 20:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the book I quoted is in Serbian (but written by Hungarian historians), so they did not used word "gorog-keleti", but the exact quotation is: "Oblasni gospodar Ajtonj, koji je u Vidinu prešao u pravoslavlje, imao je, i posle pokrštavanja, sedam žena". The English translation: "The local ruler Ajtonj (Ahtum) became Orthodox Christian (pravoslavlje) in Vidin, but even after he was baptised, he had seven wives". Also, I think that it is important to keep word Orthodox, because most of the current inhabitants of Banat are Orthodox Christians, thus it is important that they know that somebody of their faith ruled over the region in that time. As a sort of compromise we can use both names, something like Orthodox (Byzantine-Rite). PANONIAN (talk) 22:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Serb uprising in Banat in 1594 was one of the 3 largest uprisings of Serbs in history (the other two are those in 1804 led by Karađorđe and in 1815 led by Miloš Obrenović). If some other Wiki pages do not speak about it, then it is because nobody wrote that there yet (History of Serbia article speak about it for example). And what Serbian conquest you talk about? PANONIAN (talk) 13:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

the well known immigration of Serbs into Szeremseg in the early 15th century, Bacska in the 17th century up toward Szentendre ... this process is quite well documented--fz22 18:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But that certainly cannot be described as "conquest". Besides this, what you mentioned were only some of many Serb migrations to the region, not to mentioned that some Serbs lived here even from the Slavic migration in the 6th and 7th century, and not to mention that until the 13th century Banat was mostly populated with Slavs, who, if not all of them were Serbs, have spoke the same language as Serbs today. So, the story about Serbian "conquest" is only a science fiction story developed by the nationalistic Hungarian historians in the 19th century. Of course, it is nice that there are many objective Hungarian historians who do not try to deny that most of the Pannonian plain had Slavic ethnic character in the time when Kingdom of Hungary was created. PANONIAN (talk) 19:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here Conquest = Honfoglalas for me ... --fz22 20:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand what you want to say. PANONIAN (talk) 22:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but I don't think there is term in English for Hungarian "honfoglalas" conquest. This is not just a simple "conqering the land by force of arms"--fz22 08:31, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but the problem is that nationalist people in all countries in our region think that their neighbours "conquered" parts of "their" lands. Same thing you will hear from Serbs, same from Albanians, same from Croats, same from Bulgarians, etc, etc... During the centuries, different regions and cities were inhabited by different peoples and nobody cannot claim that their neighbours "conquered" something from him. We all came to this region from somewhere. The ancient inhabitants of Balkans were Palazgians who spoke a language similar to basque. All Indo-European, Finno-Ugric and Turkic peoples came later. So, we all in fact "conquered" the land of Palazgians and we all are "land thiefs". The question is: can somebody stole something from a thief when he already stole this from somebody else? PANONIAN (talk) 14:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, so this is why we have to elucidate those people. Most of Magyars do not deny that there were slavic people in the region during the Hungarian conquest. But it is also undeniable that between the 15th-18th century almost half a million Serbian refugges immingrated into this deserted land while the Magyars simple died out ... --fz22 15:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Many Serbs did settled in the region between 14th and 16th century, and so did the Magyars in the centuries before that. What is a big difference between Serb and Magyar settling? PANONIAN (talk) 14:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

References please

Can we please have some references for the demographic data, it just says that "according to 1774 data", is that a census, which one (from which country). Thanks. AdrianTM 09:15, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In what other page you want to use this data? The reference where I found this data is this book: Miodrag Milin, Vekovima zajedno (iz istorije srpsko-rumunskih odnosa), Temišvar, 1995. Book is in Serbian, but it is published in Timisoara by the Serb minority of Romania. The numbers given there are statistical data for the year 1774, but are based on the 1771/1772 census. However, this census was partial, meaning it did not presented data for all settlements, thus the 1774 data are in fact corrected data from 1771/1772 census. PANONIAN (talk) 13:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. I was thinking to balance the data from Timisoara#History with the info that in 1774 there were less than 2400 Hungarians in all the Banat region. AdrianTM 15:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Geographical region

a geographical region would be the Pannonian Plain, as it is a geographical unit, a plain. Banat is not a geographical unit, not a mountain, not a plain, not a river, it is thus a historical, or informal region. at best Banat could be a political region Political geography, but it is not a political region, it was a political region, today it is only a historic thing. Criztu 12:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]