Talk:Satori

Satori in Contemporary World

Although the concept of satori seems to be difficult when it is translated into Western languages, it is basically a simple way to describe the experience of the world after spending a considerable time in self reflection. If one wants to experience satori in one's life, the Zen Buddhist would say, "Well, sit down and just think by yourself for a while".

I have removed the above, as it entirely misrepresents the topic. Zen is the art of 'giving oneself wholeheartedly into whatever is happening at this particular moment', and is nothing to do with 'self reflection'. Satori certainly can't be experienced by sitting down and thinking.--MichaelMaggs 07:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hear hear

Momentary or Permanent

 There is a bit of a dillemma between Suzuki's claim that Satori is permanent, and the claim that nirvhana is permanent while satori is transitory. Perhaps the article might highlight rather than eliminate the this dillema, which is I believe one which exists in other and self appraisals of Zen. Non Zen buddhist have criticised zen for its search for momentary awakenings. Zen buddhist have replied that their awakenings are not impermanent but result in or thus in a sense are permanent enlightenment. There is no going back. 
 This links to the famous (for me contraversial from a Buddhist point of view) Zen saying along the lines of  "after enlightenment the mountain is still a mountain and a stream is still a stream." To this, siding with those that criticise Zen, this just goes to show that Satori is only momentary because after enlightement there is no mountain, no stream, but on the other hand it is true that they have not changed only ones awareness of them, and that through satori has become enlightened. 
 This debate reminds me of the variation on the nursery ryme, "Ten Green Bottles" -- "Ten sticks of dynamite hanging on a wall and if one stick of dynamite should accidentally fall, there'd be no sticks of dynamite and no b***** wall." Perhaps Zen is more like the original. --133.62.200.220 06:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]