User talk:David aukerman
As you have begun to work on those sections I just introduced to that page a month or so ago (it was sadly lacking), do you think that philosophy and theology ought to be maintained as separate sections? It kind of makes the philosophy section seem scant, but it also seems to distinguish between things as Aquinas himself never did or could have, considering his fundamental beliefs. What do you think? Srnec 18:41, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
- I think that the two sections (philosophy and theology) are good as separate sections. There is quite a bit of overlap between the two, but I think that's unavoidable. I introduced the theology section to try to flush out the article a bit, and I tried to keep it about the same length as the existing philosophy section. In any case, it looks like both sections contain equal amounts of important information... Perhaps we could say more about epistemology? David aukerman 19:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
- The problem is that Christians and theologians will read all of Aquinas writings as theological in nature, while students of philosophy and secular philosophers will read them as philosophical works contributing to and influencing greatly the subsequent philosophical tradition of the West. I think perhaps the theology section (and its subsections) should be made a subsection itself of the philosophy section. I think the epistemology section could be perhaps expanded and rounded off. Aquinas, as a philosopher, is noted for his empiricism and Aristotelianism and these are hardly even touched upon. His theology is so expansive a whole article could be written on that alone. Srnec 20:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
- You're right - both his theology and his philosophy could take up entire articles of their own. But I disagree with your suggestion that we make the theology section a subsection of philosophy. Like you said, theologians will read Aquinas through a theological lens, and philosophers will read him through a philosophical lens. Why not keep the two pieces separate? After all, the article's opening sentence calls Aquinas a "philosopher and theologian"... David aukerman 16:24, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- He is without a doubt a philosopher and a theologian. However, I don't want to have two sections in the article with a lot of overlap between them and I don't want to have to decide where some information belongs since it could belong in either section, but I'll leave it as is, it works for now. Srnec 18:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- That makes sense to me...I see your point. Maybe as more material gets added, we'll see better how to structure the article. David aukerman 03:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- He is without a doubt a philosopher and a theologian. However, I don't want to have two sections in the article with a lot of overlap between them and I don't want to have to decide where some information belongs since it could belong in either section, but I'll leave it as is, it works for now. Srnec 18:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- You're right - both his theology and his philosophy could take up entire articles of their own. But I disagree with your suggestion that we make the theology section a subsection of philosophy. Like you said, theologians will read Aquinas through a theological lens, and philosophers will read him through a philosophical lens. Why not keep the two pieces separate? After all, the article's opening sentence calls Aquinas a "philosopher and theologian"... David aukerman 16:24, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- The problem is that Christians and theologians will read all of Aquinas writings as theological in nature, while students of philosophy and secular philosophers will read them as philosophical works contributing to and influencing greatly the subsequent philosophical tradition of the West. I think perhaps the theology section (and its subsections) should be made a subsection itself of the philosophy section. I think the epistemology section could be perhaps expanded and rounded off. Aquinas, as a philosopher, is noted for his empiricism and Aristotelianism and these are hardly even touched upon. His theology is so expansive a whole article could be written on that alone. Srnec 20:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
...nevermind, in case you saw the last message. I'm a newbie and didn't understand the title. Thanks for fixing the vandalism. Kalossoter 21:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
- David, I'm looking for at least a few inline citations. The purpose of these is so that a reader can pursue a subject in the sources for the article. The rule of thumb is at least one cite per section. If the material is all from Schaff, then put an reference in every time the source materials for text is on a different page in Schaff or you switch paragraphs. Ideally, multiple sources should be checked, but no one really expects that here. Thanks for the work on this! Bob --CTSWyneken(talk) 14:08, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I knew the quotation I provided from the Summa was from an objection. I had seen it quoted and attributed to Aquinas before as his opinion, so I did likewise. My reading of that passage, however, affirms that Aquinas does not disagree that "without grace, man cannot know truth", he only specifies what this means, because to him it is different from what it means to most. Anyways, it's no big deal, but perhaps the relation between revelation (grace) and the senses can be further elucidated, Aquinas' epistemology is very important in Western philosophy. Srnec 03:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
- I see your point... you're right - his specification is that grace enables humans to know "certain truths . . . especially in regard to such as pertain to faith." I'll update the Epistemology section to balance this out ... but yes, there's still room for expansion in this material. - David aukerman talk 12:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Categorisation Thomas Aquinas
Hey, i agree with what you've said and it seems stupid of me to put it in there in the first place, apologies. But im not sure that leaving the educational institutions named after TA out of there was so smart? although it could be right? but i dont think so, in my view it should be re-instated - but im not ovrly strong on the idea. Smbarnzy 13:31, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Fixed, thanks! David aukerman talk 13:58, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Cite Help
Can you help find a citation for the view below linked to Aquinas in the Jesus article (under Majority view)?
The satisfaction view of atonement for sin, first articulated by Anselm of Canterbury, is that humanity owes God a debt of honor. This debt creates essentially an imbalance in the moral universe; it could not be satisfied by God's simply ignoring it. In this view, the only possible way of repaying the debt was for a being of infinite greatness, acting as a man on behalf of men, to repay the debt of honor owed to God. Therefore, when Jesus died, he paid a debt to God, his father. Thomas Aquinas consided atonement and articulated that rather than seeing the debt as one of honor, he sees the debt as a moral injustice to be righted. Aquinas concludes that punishment is a morally good response to sin, "Christ bore a satisfactory punishment, not for His, but for our sins," and substitution for another's sin is entirely possible.[citation needed] --Carlaude (talk) 13:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
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