User talk:Flyer22 Frozen

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Respectful comments of remembrance may be left below.

Retired

This user is no longer active on Wikipedia.

Regarding this? Looking at all of Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence and knowing I'd be subjected to similar, and how certain editors go all out to prove false narratives, I cannot deal with that. Like some editors (including Girth Summit) know, I am dealing with COVID issues in the family. That is not something I just made up to get out of going through this "must take down Flyer" thing. It was happening before that, and it's gotten worse. I have a brother (not the one who edits here) in intensive care and a sister who was just put on a ventilator. I already lost an uncle to the virus. And editing here is supposed to help me take my mind off of stuff like that, not be subjected to as much stress and time-wasting that an ArbCom case entails.

I have said goodbye to editors here already. And I will say this before I leave: The argument from a few at the request page that ANI failed an editor because the admins are biased in my favor? Are we to honestly believe that I control all of these well-respected admins? They have their own minds and have disagreed with me before. They saw what they saw. So for this case to be accepted? It feels like this case would have been accepted regardless of the many requests to decline it. This case isn't about the private evidence -- material that I didn't write but am accused of writing. Material that was not passed on to me for scrutiny. None of the Arbs accepted the case on the basis of that "evidence", which speaks to just how immaterial it is. I acknowledge that I haven't always been the most civil. Editors on the case page noted that I work in areas where tempers flare. That's true. Editors accusing me of having been uncivil to them have also been uncivil to me at one point or another, often in the very discussions they've linked to. Beeblebrox stated, "Arbcom is not a court, it's purpose is to stop current and sustained disruption of the project, not to punish users for things they may have done in the past." But that is exactly what the request points to -- a free-for-all for anyone who has ever been in a heated dispute with me, with the added bonus of portraying my behavior as bullying, transphobic, or something else that it isn't. Consensus did not conclude that I was hounding or bullying anyone. Adhering to our policies and guidelines and expecting others to do the same is not bullying or being discriminatory. Criticisms are not automatically personal attacks. And commentary about what took place here at my own talk page can be seen here with my "18:00, 9 October 2020 (UTC)" post (scroll on down).

The claim that I went after anyone at WP:Med and made participation at WT:Med talk pages unbearable is false. For example, Sandy and I got along just fine for years until the Medicine ArbCom case and I continued to support Doc James -- our most influential and respected medical editor, who has been the face of WP:Med for years. These "just fine" interactions include stuff like this, this, this, this, this, this, and the view that I am a fine editor for new medical editors to work with. I was never a problem at WP:Med. I have a long history there. And the only supposed instance of me being problematic there is the claim that I was driving away a newcomer. As documented there with evidence, I criticized a newcomer for the same exact thing another editor criticized others for when it comes to adding quality sources. Like me, Girth saw no merit to the incivility claims leveled against me in that discussion. At the moment, I can only recall one other heated discussion I was involved in at WP:Med. And that is this one about the Battered woman syndrome article. But it was just that -- a heated discussion. It was not me being a problem. And, indeed, because of my arguments there and at the article's talk page, the article was moved to its proper name and appropriately expanded. Disagreements over MOS:MED, such as this one in a collapsed box which started off by me suggesting that we discuss significant changes before we make them (and then getting the reply I did), this one where I questioned removing guidance and pinged previously involved editors who helped craft the current MOS:MED guideline (which is perfectly fine per WP:APPNOTE), and challenging what were the "golden years" of WP:Med, does not equate to me being disruptive.

That's all I have say. This is not how I wanted to leave Wikipedia. But with my own declining health, it was only a matter of time anyway. Take care.

Flowers for Flyer

“

Nor shall death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st:
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.

”

— William Shakespeare, Sonnet 18

Goodbye

Not what I wanted to wake up to. You take care of yourself; you and your families health is much more important than any drama that happens here. It has been a pleasure working with you and watching you work. Wikipedia has just lost one of their best editors. Thank you for all the hard work you have put into the project over the years. You will be missed. AIRcorn (talk) 16:34, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this truly sucks. Maybe after your health issues are resolved, and the drama dies down, you can come back. That will always be my hope. Take care, happy holidays, and best to you. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:13, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am very sad to see you go. After losing editors like Doc James, and now you, how many highly valuable users must this ArbCom chase off the site? I think the essay about the problem of WP:SEALIONs aptly describes the situation: As a result of the arbitration committee's failure to deal with these issues, the committee has effectively abdicated the responsibility for ensuring neutrality, verifiability, and other content standards to a few users...who patrol these articles and attempt to keep them free of disruption. These users are generally very knowledgeable about the subject and committed to Wikipedia's policies on proper sourcing and appropriate weight. Unfortunately, they tend to burn out....The patient ones tend to go more quietly. They become disillusioned by the never-ending problems and the lack of support from the Wikipedia community, and stop editing on these topics or quit the site entirely. That is what happened today - even though many more in the community do support you, as you saw. I also would have had plenty of diffs presented about how those few disgruntled users ganging up on you and pinging each other are in fact the problem. And as for how you are with newbies, the only reason I became a regular editor is because you were kind to me and I saw from your example that improving Wikipedia really was possible. Thank you for your many years of service and hundreds of thousands of edits. The topic of human sexuality, among many others, have benefited greatly. You should take great pride in all you've accomplished over the years. I hope you enjoy your retirement to the fullest degree possible. I also wish the best for you and your family regarding health and the other issues of life. The rest of us will undoubtedly step up our work to ensure continued quality in these areas. I hold out hope that one day you will choose to come back. If so, you will be warmly welcomed. Kind regards, Crossroads ^-talk- 18:00, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I echo the comments made by Aircorn and Crossroads. I have worked with you on a few different articles and you have been extremely helpful and pleasant to contribute with. I wish you all of the best with your off-wiki situation and hope to see you back in the future. -- LuK3 (Talk) 18:06, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I likewise echo the above sentiments. Thanks to you, I have learned so much about what it takes to improve as an editor and make productive contributions. I think your absence from Wikipedia will be a huge loss as I find your work on articles and your dedication to this site invaluable. This situation really sucks. You've been a guide for me on what a good, even-minded, well-sourced, and thoughtful contributions to a wiki looks like and I so appreciate all of the advice and guidance you have given me. I really hope you decide to come back one day. I am so sorry to hear about the health issues occurring with you and in your family. I will keep thinking of you and I wish only good things for you, Flyer. Anatashala (talk) 20:40, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Desiderata--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 21:59, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If this retirment is permanent, then I'll deeply miss you. Best wishes to you and your family either way. The sooner your health improves, the better. I know from experience how it can be very frustrating when things go badly on Wikipedia. Sometimes we just need to temporarily step away from it all before spending time on the site is enjoyable again. Hopefully you return at some point. No matter what follows in your future, know that you won't be forgotten. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 00:33, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very sorry to hear about your retirement and your health issues, Flyer. The door is always open to you should you choose to return to Wikipedia in the future. Best wishes, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:02, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I miss you already. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 05:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
At least the legacy of your 14 years of labour here will be improving the world's understanding for many decades to come. I'll say prayers for the health of yourself and your family. FeydHuxtable (talk) 07:38, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Very sorry to hear the terrible health news. Please take care, best wishes, and thanks for all your great work. Johnuniq (talk) 09:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This news is just absolutely devastating. I have many women's articles on my radar but through the years as I've seen controversies come and go I've always known that we had the capable hands of Flyer to keep and restore our women-related articles to reflect a modern-day acceptance of the rights, the accomplishments, the history, etc. of women. Flyer easily falls into the top three leading editors when it comes to women. I pray that once Flyer's health problems are resolved she will return. Flyer is our very own Gloria, Florence, Rosie, Sojourner, Malala, and so many others who have had the persistence and the courage to speak out for women. Gandydancer (talk) 17:04, 11 December 2020 (UTC) (PS, just so it's understood, like the rest of us Flyer does not walk on water! Re the MED sourcing disagreement, IMO Colin and Waid were right.) Gandydancer (talk) 16:10, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You were one of the first editors I remember encountering on here when I first started editing many moons ago, and I've always been blown away by the heart and dedication you've poured into your contributions. If there's one thing I've always known about you, it's that your motives were always clear and never hidden. Though we may have disagreed at times, I never doubted that you always had WP's best interests at heart. No single editor can fill the gaping hole left behind in the wake of your departure. You will be sorely missed. May God bless you and your family during these difficult times. --GoneIn60 (talk) 17:21, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This makes me so sad. You are one of our finest and our best. I can't bring myself to write that in the past tense. Take good care of yourself, Flyer, and come back to us whenever you're ready. As the Quakers say, I will hold you and your family in the Light. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 01:36, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Very sad to see WP lose a fine editor who contributed with a lot of heart and soul. I read enough of the discussion to come to the conclusion that you were railroaded. Best wishes and hope you return. Carlstak (talk) 02:40, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I feel terrible reading about your experiences with the virus, it's nightmarish that this is happening to anyone, let alone someone so recognizable to many people. We did not interact a lot but I've seen you tons of times and I'm well aware that you've done great work for Wikipedia. I'm also saddened to learn that you have had to deal with ANI issues and conflicts here on the site. Wikipedia will be worse off with you gone, but the most important thing is for you to make sure to do what's best for you and those close to you.★Trekker (talk) 05:57, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am very disappointed to see you leave, Flyer. As more editors like you leave the project Wikpedia will slide further into advocacy. Unfortunately ArbCom doesn't seem to appreciate that by accepting the case they would be perpetuating the harassment you are experiencing. Being put on trial and having to defend yourself is a stressful experience, and nobody should be put through that unless there is clearly a problem. I think they have been too quick in accepting the case. ArbCom should review the three ANI cases first and only take on the case if they feel that those cases arrived at the incorrect conclusions. I hope your family's fortunes pick up over Christmas. Betty Logan (talk) 15:46, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We were never buddies, Flyer, but I greatly admire and respect the enormous responsibility you took over having our most contested and vandalized gender & sexuality articles on your Watchlist. An ArbCom case doesn't inevitably lead to sanctions but being a participant in a case proceeding can be taxing. Having lost my last aunt & uncle to COVID-19 this spring, my thoughts are with your family. Take a break from Wikipedia if this is stressful and tend to more important matters. But come back when this plague has lifted because the project needs you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:29, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Flyer, it definitely sounds like you need and deserve a break from the grind here. I hope you are able to put the Arbcom nastiness and drama from your mind and focus on the real life things that really matter. I hope your family members get better and that you stay safe. Hang in there. ~Awilley (talk) 07:32, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Best wishes for your family's COVID troubles, I'm so sorry to hear it. I hope taking a break will help with the stress. —valereee (talk) 15:34, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Best wishes for you and your family. You have been failed by two communities now, and that sucks, but I hope that both improve and we'll see you around again. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:42, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
So very sad to see you go. I hope you and your family are well. This website has treated you terribly and over the years I've been witness to the number of times, by virtue of the areas you edit in, you have been harrassed or wikistalked, and it's very sad to see this final straw. I don't think we deserve you back; what you do deserve is a wonderful time in the real world :). Yours --Tom (LT) (talk) 22:59, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have not interacted with you, but I have seen your name here and there, and I am extremely disappointed to see another valued and principled editor leave the project, especially in this nasty/drama way. I admire greatly editors who roll their sleeves up and do the difficult work for the good of the encyclopedia. I hope that you are able to take a break, look after your family and come back to us when all is well again. Family comes first. RandomGnome (talk) 07:17, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure I don't have to tell how personally grieved I would be if you left and didn't return. And also what a blow it would be the Wikipedia, and by extension the world. I'm sorry all this happened. I hope you change your mind. Herostratus (talk) 12:01, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Flyer. We interacted a few times over the years. I have not been very active on Wikipedia during the past couple of years due to multiple issues, but I have always admired your work and dedication to improve Wikipedia. Best wishes to you and your family. Mistercontributer (talk) 03:48, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I only just noticed your retirement now. Thank you for all that you've done for Wikipedia and although this is a well deserved break I hope that you eventually consider editing again in better circumstances. Farewell, —Paleo Neonate – 17:17, 19 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Too young to go. I don't know you personally, but I saw you many times at the Anatomy project talk page. You always tried to brush-up difficult pages (e.g. sex organs). I respect your efforts. Thank you and rest in peace. (or edit more at WikiHeaven!) --Was a bee (talk) 13:08, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I can't believe this happened. I know we didn't interact much, but thank you for being with us on Wikipedia all these years. Goodbye friend. My condolences to the friends and family of Flyer22 Frozen. Jerm (talk) 20:03, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	In recognition of all you have done. Crossroads ^-talk- 18:02, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Farewell barnstar

	The Working Woman's Barnstar
	For all of your dedication to helping improve this site for over a decade, I feel you deserve some props. I feel very grateful for how we crossed paths and know I'm far from the only one who values your contributions. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 00:30, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

Wiki MUST change the arbitration system. Maybe do it in private in the beginning and then open it up for comment before decision making. Sorry for my outburst on your talk page. I am just a simple editor. Eschoryii (talk) 04:57, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Best wishes

Flyer22, I'm not at all caught up (like maybe 1 percent), but I still wanted to first and foremost extend my best wishes to you and your family and to your collective health.

A candle among roses

In the evening garden

A shooting star

A flash of the moon's gown

A spark of the sun's hem

In syncopated eclipse

Emissary of day

In night's dark kingdom

Unseen at home

Lucid in exile

Opposite of the moth

The firefly is light

--Muhammad Iqbal

All the best, El_C 08:20, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think the light is gone out. Doug Weller talk 11:15, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I understand as well, and unfortunately while she was under the burden of an arbitration case. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC) [edited][reply]

Sad news indeed. She did so much amazing work here. Created high quality and needed content in a very difficult topic area. She will be impossible to replace and will be much missed by many. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:39, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	In recognition of all the years you spent making Wikipedia better than you found it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 14:47, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

child protection

Thank you , user with significant knowledge in the social/scientific/psychological/sexual fields, for quality unbiased articles on these topics, such as Clitoris and Todd Manning, for explaining edit summaries, for your firm stance on child protection, for your collection of vandalism moments, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

You are recipient no. 982 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:41, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing to add but that you were unique - dealing bravely with topics others would not dare to touch - and you will be missed and remembered. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:57, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rest in Peace

Reading of your passing is sad news. You did so much to improve and protect the project. You will be sadly missed here and, I feel sure, in real life. My deepest condolences to your family and friends. MarnetteD|Talk 15:58, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am truly sadden by this news. Fly was my friend! I first met her back in 2014, while working on Todd Manning, a soap opera article we brought to FA--at the time, the sixth FA-Class soap opera article and the third FA about a soap character. Fly was a polarizing figure here on WP (you either loved her or well, didn't love her), but she always treated me with respect and kindness. We supported each other and were always there for each other. I was always appalled about how factions of WP treated her. She was a dedicated and passionate editor. I loved her and will miss her, and WP (and the world) will be a much, much sadder place without her. My condolences to her family. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:25, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sad cat

—Paleo Neonate – 16:38, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rest in peace

Goodbye Flyer22. You will be missed. :( Steve M (talk) 16:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I miss you, Flyer. My deepest condolences to your family for the loss of someone who was clearly a very special and caring person. I made a donation today to Oxfam Canada to honour you and to give myself hope that the work you have done for women and children will somehow continue. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 17:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't recall working on any specific article with Flyer (I'm more a friend of a friend) - but I always respected what they had to say, and I CERTAINLY appreciate all the hard work they put in here at Wikipedia. I'm sorry to see this, and I offer my condolences to friends and family of someone who I viewed as a very good person. Rest well Flyer. — Ched (talk) 17:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ave Maria

Ave Maria, gratia plena,

Maria, gratia plena,

Ave, Ave, Dominus,

Dominus tecum.

Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus,

Et benedictus fructus ventris (tui),

Ventris tui, Jesus.

Ave Maria!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei,

Ora pro nobis peccatoribus,

Ora, ora pro nobis;

Ora, ora pro nobis peccatoribus,

Nunc et in hora mortis,

In hora mortis nostrae.

In hora, hora mortis nostrae,

In hora mortis nostrae.

Ave Maria!

no words to express--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You will be missed my friend. Love. Isaidnoway (talk) 21:29, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank-you, Flyer

		The Special Barnstar
		Flyer, so much of it is thanks to you that I was able to develop and improve as an editor over the years -- not simply on Wikipedia but on other wikis as well, in addition to many collaborative efforts building shared documents. When I returned to Wikipedia and asked you a question on your talk page, you were so kind, welcoming, and helpful, and I felt 100% better about my return. I can't tell you how much I appreciated your guidance on Wikipedia matters. Over the years, whenever I saw you were involved with an article on Wikipedia, I felt that much more secure with the veracity and quality of that article. Your passing represents an immeasurable loss for Wikipedia as well as all the editors you've guided and helped in their development. Anatashala (talk) 17:22, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm stunned by this news. Flyer was a boon to Wikipedia. Though I'm a seasonal editor at best, I am a frequent lurker -- referencing Wikipedia daily, using it as a place to begin my research using its sources. Many of those sources were vetted by Flyer as the articles I'd often reference were ones Flyer was involved with. Over the past seven years, I saw the dedication, effort, and devotion she put into improving and maintaining the qualities of these articles. It's nearly impossible for me to imagine a Wikipedia without her and I can only imagine the loss felt by her family and friends. It's even a struggle for myself to come to terms with and I didn't even know her name. I am so sorry for the devastating loss of Flyer experienced by her family and friends, beyond deeply saddened that Flyer passed, and I feel this is a major loss for Wikipedia.

Thank-you, Flyer, for your guidance and your part in helping me develop as an editor and collaborator. I miss you so much on this site, you were a gift. Anatashala (talk) 17:22, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We will miss you, Flyer22

This is indeed a very sad day. I first crossed paths with Flyer22 nearly 10 years ago. My first thought was, "this guy must be an F-22 pilot". We've never had much interaction, because when she crossed my watchlist it was usually because of her relentless work in patrolling new edits. But I have had a chance to observe over the years, and see first hand some of what she ~~does~~did through my activities at BLPN.

At Wikipedia, we're all supposed to be equal ... in theory. But, as Yogi Berra said, "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."

I've always been proud to be a part of Wikipedia. It's always been gratifying, if not somewhat humbling, to be able to work among so many people who are so incredibly intelligent and have such high integrity. But, like all society, there are always certain individuals who stand out among the crowd. People who you can look up to. Polyamorph. Materialscientist. SlimVirgin. Doc James up there. Seeing what Flyer22 has done for Wikipedia over the years, I have always held her in the highest esteem. She too has stood out among the crowd, and her loss is a devastating blow, not just to Wikipedia, but to her family and to the world. We will miss you Flyer22, and may whatever god, chi, or spirit you believe in take you and carry you. There are many here who will mourn this day for some time.

The force will be with you. Always. Zaereth (talk) 18:31, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Devastated

I cannot believe you're gone, Flyer22 Frozen. When I glanced at your talk page a few minutes ago, I thought you'd retired and I was going to leave a goodbye and thank you note to you, with a wish that you'd return to us one day.

But then I read further, and I'm devastated. :'( I remember our interactions from years ago, keeping BLPs free from bad content and being kind to one another. I am utterly saddened that those days are gone for good.

Thank you so much for everything you did. Best wishes to your family. Acalamari 19:16, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Very sad

I've very sorry to have you leave us Springee (talk) 19:57, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sad

So sorry to hear the news, greatest sympathies to Flyer22's family and friends. Although I had my disagreement's with Flyer22, I recognised she did important work especially in the area of WP:BLP which greatly improved and protected Wikipedia. Nil Einne (talk) 20:05, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In memory

Thanks for many contributions. Rest in peace and condolences to family and friends. Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm shocked and saddened to hear this news. Flyer22 is an editor I've been familiar with for as long as I can remember in my Wikipedia experience, and literally the first editor I remember thinking about as a highly respectable and valuable contributor with a lot to teach others. Our interactions probably do not number that many, but I've seen a great number of their edits and talk page messages. Whether I agreed with her or not, I always saw Flyer22 as an intelligent and good faith contributor whose opinion I gave significant weight. There's no denying that she had a great many Wikipedia-specific skills, whether an eye for socks or an eye for finding good sources. She will be sorely missed; her edits have made a great impact on this encyclopedia both to us as editors and to our worldwide audience, whether they know it or not. — Bilorv (talk) 22:08, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is devastating news. Flyer's work was first class and of immense benefit to Wikipedia. She will be greatly missed. Johnuniq (talk) 00:40, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So very sad to hear. You are irreplaceable, Flyer22 Frozen. We will always love you. Carlstak (talk) 01:04, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
RIP ... I'll always remember your diligence, tenacity, and passion for the project. Wikipedia is certainly a better place thanks to the contributions you made to the site. Graham87 08:10, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to add my condolences to Flyer22's family. I've spent a lot of time reviewing Flyer's contributions recently and would like to take this moment to say how much of an asset she was to the community. She will be missed. Worm^TT(talk) 08:57, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am very sad to learn of Flyer's passing. I did not know Flyer personally but we had some interactions on Wikipedia. Flyer dedicated so much of her time and energy researching and improving Wikipedia. We should all follow her example. Her contributions will last a very long time. This will be her legacy. Sincere condolences to her family and friends and loved ones. Mistercontributer (talk) 03:00, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just now learning of this. Rest in peace, Flyer. Your work here is exceptional. ^Thanks,L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 14:32, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Shocked and saddened. She was one of the editors I looked up to. My condolences to her family and friends. Usedtobecool ☎️ 16:32, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Very sad

My condolences to your family and friends. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Same, please take care, family and friends. starship .paint (exalt) 04:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Awful.

This is awful, just awful. I don't ever recall feeling this shocked, upset, and sad about the notice of someone passing that I never met in real life. I'm really very, very upset. She leaves a hole that can never be filled. My condolences to Halo Jerk1; please pass on my thoughts to other members of your family, and let them know there are people who really cared and felt her presence, though in my case, never knew her personally. She will be deeply missed. If there is one Wikipedia editor I would have liked to meet in real life, and get to know, it was she; now I never shall. I am so sad. Mathglot (talk) 21:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mathglot, I feel this. I cried when I saw this. For about a hour. It hits you hard because many of us are faceless, pseudonymous comrades who carry the torch of the wiki. May you be granted peace in your grief. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 02:14, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I cried when I saw the news this morning, and I've been processing it all day. The loss is just immense. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:51, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not over this loss. I think about this void, my loss, Wikipedia's loss, every time I'm at an article which Flyer would have improved, or commented on. Trying to channel her, to figure out what she might have said or done; but I'm not up to that task, she was unique. Not over this. Mathglot (talk) 18:50, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This sucks. I'm p.o.'d. Mathglot (talk) 01:01, 25 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Still upset. Mathglot (talk) 09:36, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For those interested

User:Flyer22 Frozen/Editing manual left after death, written in 2013... I've protected Flyer's subpages, which included some drafts; if you want them unportected so you can work on them just ask. Moneytrees🏝️^{Talk/CCI help} 21:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My Benediction For You

Peace to you and to your family. May your memory and contributions forever bless our project. You ~~were~~ are loved. I know I'll miss you. May we meet again on some wiki project in the next life. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 21:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

May you rest peacefully in eternity

I was concerned to see that you had retired, and shocked to learn that you had passed. We never had the opportunity to interact, but I feel the loss of a good editor, nonetheless. My condolences to your survivors, all those you loved and befriended. Rest in peace, Flyer22. Atsme 💬 📧 22:39, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We will miss you; rest in peace, and my deepest sympathy to your family. Miniapolis 00:22, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sad news. Your work in Wikipedia will be appreciate for the eternity. Rest in peace Flyer. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 00:37, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm so sad to learn of this

I've crossed paths with Flyer so many times over the years, and I'm absolutely shocked and devastated to learn of her death. She made so many outstanding contributions to the project, and she will be much missed, as an editor and as a person. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:19, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Very upset to hear of this ...

I've been thinking on this all day, and really can't put it well into words. I'm one of the few folks who knows Flyer22's name, and have spoken with her and her brother more than once. Behind the scenes, she did immense work on identifying banned editors - many pro-pedo ones - and this annoyed some of those folks, to the point that she was getting credible death threats and rape threats. I remember all that. Yet, she put her head down and kept working on the project, and did so for many years. I have a huge amount of respect for her and what she achieved, though we didn't always agree either. I am shocked and saddened that she is gone - I really don't know what to say - Alison ^❤ 01:25, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. I never knew that part of the story, although it was apparent something had happened back then, I just never knew the details. That's pretty scary, but it explains a lot. I've had the privilege of talking with her on occasion, and offered her advice she didn't always agree with. I don't know her real name and never really gave it a thought. She'll always be Flyer22 to me.

I'm like Mathglot. I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, over someone I've never really met. She was a shining star, and I'm just thinking ... hoping, that maybe she's up there somewhere, and maybe the sky won't be a little less bright tonight. Zaereth (talk) 02:01, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A great loss to Wikipedia. Condolences to her family and many friends, on and off wiki. For many years, she watched over important articles in sexuality and gender topics and that made her a target for some of the worst harassment on ENWP. Yet, she kept showing up in the true spirit of Wikipedians who believe in our mission. She will be greatly missed. Sydney Poore/FloNight User talk:FloNight 16:21, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dreadful shock

Woke up today and saw this fell news. Daresay I'm at a loss for words, had difficulty believing my eyes at first. I've crossed paths with Flyer22 in countervandalism and counter-LTA activities often, and it to me seems a disastrous loss to the community as a whole. Flyer22 (as Alison mentioned above) did valuable work for the encyclopedia. Now we have only a hollow that can never be filled. Rest in peace, Flyer22. We'll never forget your contributions. My most heartfelt sympathy goes out to Flyer's family. Java Hurricane 02:13, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The North remembers

Just going over our old GoT debates, good times. If you happen to somehow read this, thanks for that. Sorry and good luck to friends and family reading this; from what she taught me at Talk:The Bells (Game of Thrones)/Archive 1#"Mixed" Reviews? (twelve walls of text down), she seemed proud to be part of her pack. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:08, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Seven years on, I still think "however" is too often thoughtlessly misused, however. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:42, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rest in peace... this is devastating.

I never crossed paths with Flyer22 (only seen her in early January when I found them reverting some vandalism on articles under WPTC banner back in December), but seeing this news pretty much devastated me. Flyer22's death is devastating, devastating loss for Wikipedia. I don't have more words about this, but I am hoping that there is some editor that can rise up to fill the void. Mario Jump 83! 06:31, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Devastating is exactly the right word. BD2412 T 16:06, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Miss you

I am devastated. You did so much good for me, for other editors, for Wikipedia, and yes, for the whole world. This site is the most used reference work there is, and you put so much work into making sure that so many topics, including especially important topics relating to women and children, were well covered. And you gave of yourself and persevered for so long in ensuring they continued to be of increasing quality. Your work has a ripple effect reaching ever outward, educating countless readers and from there, others. Your legacy lives forever.

Rest in peace, Flyer.

Crossroads ^-talk- 06:45, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Vale

I'm really saddened to hear of this loss; for Flyer22's family, friends and for our community. Flyer22 was always an impassioned Wikipedian and I have worked with her for the better part of a decade now. She was, I believe, a fundamentally decent person and I hope her real life was less troubled than her Wikipedia existance where, like a bright warm light at night, she continually attracted editors with an unhealthy attention towards her. I'm so sad to here she has passed away of health issues and wish I could have got to meet her in real life to say hello and share a cup of tea. You'll be greatly missed, Flyer22. May you rest in peace. Vale. --Tom (LT) (talk) 08:06, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A sadness and a hope

I am deeply saddened at the loss of Flyer. I feel that the work she did on Clitoris and Vagina is the among the very best on Wikipedia. Thousands of people every day are coming to Wikipedia to find out more about these two deeply significant parts to the human body, and Flyer produced two well researched and well written, balanced, neutral, and informative articles that allow them to discover more. They are two shining examples of what Wikipedia is really good at, and they are Flyer's legacy. I had always hoped to work again with Flyer on another article or two of their quality. Sadly this will now not happen.

However, I am encouraged by her brother's comments in his email that Flyer's younger sister will probably be opening a Wikipedia account in the near future. I do hope that the sister will be welcomed, and will be encouraged to stay and pick up on Flyer's work. If she does open an account I pledge myself to offering her as much support, encouragement, protection, and advice as she needs to get settled. As part of that commitment, my first piece of advice is that the sister does not pick over the bones of any current or past disputes. Halo suggests she may do that, but that would not be a good idea. If the sister has any of the research skills, intelligence, determination, and courage of her sister, she will be a great asset to Wikipedia and may come close to equalling (or even exceeding) Flyer's achievements.

Goodbye Flyer and welcome (hopefully) to Flyer's sister. SilkTork (talk) 12:15, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your adding kind words. I want to clarify that Halo has since sent another email making clear that the only reason the younger sister would have joined is to confirm what happened and that's it. He said that won't be happening now as it doesn't seem needed. Crossroads ^-talk- 17:55, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Very sad

I've had many positive interactions with Flyer over the past 15 years, and have seen the considerable good work she has done here and have only good memories. I will miss her. Paul August ☎ 13:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to miss Flyer. She’s one of the bravest editors I have ever seen. Heart of gold and a spine of steel. A good human being. Montanabw^(talk) 14:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I am terribly sorry to hear this bad news. Flyer was a great editor and I had enormous respect for her work. She will be missed. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:24, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- One of the best of the best. I worked with Flyer on several woman-related articles but watched over many more that she watched over. It was so reassuring to know that when she was involved in the editing women would be fairly treated--not by putting men down but by careful research that backed her positions. We were so lucky to have her and she will be sadly missed. Gandydancer (talk) 18:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I want to add my voice to all of those who are going to miss Flyer. One of my earliest editing memories was being reverted by Flyer; the civil, well-reasoned and instructive discussion we had afterwards motivated me to read sources, engage on talk pages, and made me more interested in getting involved in the project. she was inspirational, and I will miss her greatly. My deepest condolences to her family. GirthSummit _(blether) 18:29, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Flyer's retirement news was already saddening, so to now find out she has died is even worse. May this valued editor rest in peace. Wikipedia won't be the same without her! SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 23:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requiescat in pace. Flyer was a mainstay of Wikipedia's women-related articles. Her knowledge and care will be tremendously missed. My condolences to her family and loved ones. gnu 57 07:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Vaya con Dios, Flyer22

I’m so sorry to hear about your passing. Thanks for everything you’ve done as a Wikipedia contributor. Rest In Peace. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:47, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Farewell

Extended content

As you set out for Ithaka
hope the voyage is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
angry Poseidon—don’t be afraid of them:
you’ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
wild Poseidon—you won’t encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

Hope the voyage is a long one.
May there be many a summer morning when,
with what pleasure, what joy,
you come into harbors seen for the first time;
may you stop at Phoenician trading stations
to buy fine things,
mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
sensual perfume of every kind—
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
and may you visit many Egyptian cities
to gather stores of knowledge from their scholars.

Keep Ithaka always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you are destined for.
But do not hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you are old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you have gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.

Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you would not have set out.
She has nothing left to give you now.

And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you.
Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,
you will have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.

Ithaka
by C. P. Cavafy

Farewell, Flyer. You made a difference. You did well. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 01:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Flyer and I sometimes communicated off Wikipedia so I considered her more than a collaborator. I was aware that some of her family members had contracted Covid, which partly contributed to her decision to not engage with Arb Com. I know that the Covid issues occurred before the business with Arb-Com so it was never an excuse, I genuinely believe she didn't feel up to dealing with it. I was already saddened by her decision to leave Wikipedia and I am genuinely upset at her passing. RIP Flyer, and I very much hope the rest of her family can come through this. Betty Logan (talk) 21:18, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Respect

I can't remember where or when we crossed paths, but I remember you. RIP. ✨ Ed talk! ✨ 03:46, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A message

I never interacted with you on Wikipedia, but I am firm that you do amazing contributions. I cannot praise you in a way so grandeur, but I can just hope you rest there in peace. This will not be your last contribution. Gerald WL 04:50, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Goodbye

I had contact with Flyer a fairly large number of times over the years. She quite frequently emailed me about various matters. I had a very high regard for her. She was conscientious and determined to do what she believed was best for Wikipedia, persisting in doing so even when others made it difficult for her to do so. She was in many ways very perceptive, and could often see through clouds of nonsense to the truth underneath when many others couldn't. Over the course of time I came to think of her as a friend, even though I never met her in the flesh, and knew nothing about her life away from Wikipedia. I shall miss her. JBW (talk) 21:24, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the support with LGBT+ and medicine

Thanks for the regular constructive criticism in medicine and LGBT content. I appreciated having you as a colleague in both places as hardly anyone else navigates both of those busy spaces. You pushed for quality in a friendly way and were a model of good collaboration for giving original writing and ideas when asking for improvement. I respect that when you asked for favors, you yourself came proactively presenting a favor yourself.

🌈🌈🌈🩺💊🏥

Blue Rasberry (talk) 22:00, 31 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RIP

Shocked and saddened to hear this, Flyer was a fantastic editor and they will be missed a lot, Thank you for each and every contribution you've made here Flyer, Rest in Peace. my sincere condolences to friends and family. –Davey2010^Talk 00:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A great loss to the community and our mission

I wish that I'd had some knowledge that Flyer was unwell: I don't know whether she made this common knowledge or played the fact close to her vest, but despite her being one of the editors I most frequently ran into incidentally out in the wild of our talk pages (due to our shared interest in human nature as explored by hard science), I had no idea she was ill and apparently had been for some time. I think she and I probably had similar perspectives on matters slightly more often than not, but by the same token, we shared a work space often enough to experience many situations in which we disagreed and it was in these moments that she most impressed me with the qualities of a true Wikipedian--openness and a commitment to respectful discourse in pursuit of understanding. Oh, make no mistake: she was prepared to stick to her guns and hold a line against what she felt was a misrepresentation of the truth of an issue. But she tempered that drive and doggedness with wit, warmth, and perspective. She was truly the type of person who represents the best in this community, and whom we can point to as proof that our great task summons together people of real character and strength. I am not a spiritualist in any sense, so I cannot invoke the words of her name (the one I knew her best by) in a way that might otherwise be a comfort in this moment, to say that she has taken flight and will be reborn in a heavenly sense. But I can say with no less certainty and meaning that her works will indeed take flight, and her spirit will be reborn every day in a world and in the people made noticeably better for her presence.

Flyer, I'm sorry that I did not get to tell you any of this directly--looking back, I'm not sure I ever even seized an opportunity to say to you expressly that you were my friend. I will have to try to learn from that lesson and be more careful to take the time to say such things here. I can only say now that this is merely a part of what I have learned from you and that you have my enduring gratitude. Snow ^{let's rap} 00:32, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Beautiful words. Carlstak (talk) 01:52, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Condolences

I am greatly saddened by this news and extend my deepest sympathies to all those who cared for Flyer22. Memory eternal! -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:15, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Goodbye.

User_talk:Bob_K31416/Archive_2010#Star_Wars_mention_in_Avatar Bob K31416 (talk) 11:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sad to hear you're gone

Flyer, you and I had our differences, but I've always admired your devotion to this encyclopedia and your earnest efforts to make it better. You did a lot of good around here. My heart skipped a beat when I saw that you'd passed. No matter how many times we butted heads, this is not news I ever hoped to hear. Been thinking of you. Armadillo pteryx 01:43, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rest in peace

Thank you for working with me for so many years. I'm extremely saddened to learn that you are gone. You will be missed. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 07:21, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Farewell

I am at a loss for what to say as this is honestly the first time I've truly felt a loss from the death on an online acquaintance/colleague. We crossed paths and conversed many times ([1]) given our overlapping interests. May the memory of Flyer be a blessing to all who knew her. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:27, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rest in peace shining star

What sad news to hear that Flyer22 has passed on. Wherever you may be, surrounded by scintillating starlight and mysterious stardust, your contributions to this world were truly stellar. Netherzone (talk) 19:08, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Taken too soon...

You will be missed, Flyer. Thank you for leaving the memory of your legacy with us on Wikipedia. Huggums537 (talk) 08:19, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Farewell

I only just noticed this and can't think of what else to say. Flyer22 always had the encyclopedia's best interests at heart and contributed enormously to an area of Wikipedia I know very little about and did it fighting off conflicts that I think would have caused many others to retire much sooner instead of sticking it out. Please give my condolences to her family and friends. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 16:18, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rest in peace

I thank Flyer22 for all the work she has done. I send my condolences to her family and friends. Rest in peace. You will be remembered. ~ Destroyeraa 🌀🇺🇸 16:34, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am very late in noticing this but I am saddened by Flyer's death and wish to add my tribute and condolences. She was an astute and prolific contributor. I had only passing interactions with her but all were positive. She took the time to thank me a number of times for edits and I always appreciated her acknowledgements. That personal touch was a wonderful addition to all her substantive contributions. Donner60 (talk) 08:05, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Frozen

I dedicate this image to your memory. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The icicles look like frozen musical notes, an étude in ice—a fitting tribute. Carlstak (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Condolences

I know I'm late to the funeral, but I was browsing an IP's TP when I saw a warning of yours. Seeing it, I miss you. Rest in peace. Firestar464 (talk) 03:48, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Condolences

Extending my condolences to Flyer22 and her family (I only just found out about her passing). Sad to hear of the death of another young Wikipedian. SamHolt6 (talk) 18:34, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Have only just found out about this, also. Really sad to hear, I’m at a complete loss for words. Rest in peace, Flyer22. Patient Zero^talk 04:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for everything you did

I haven't been active much and only realised the bad news a few days ago. You were a great contributor to this project and will be sorely missed. My condolences. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 19:07, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

R.I.P.

I haven't been that active on Wikipedia lately, so I was shocked to learn of Flyer22's passing while sorting through my watchlist. As someone who has worked and interacted with Flyer in film-related articles, I can attest that she was a productive and proficient member of this encyclopedia and her contributions have not gone unnoticed or unappreciated. On a more personal note, I only wish her family the best.

Rest in peace, Flyer. Dark knight 2149 04:29, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A loss for the project

I didn't know Flyer at all (just found out about this now) but I certainly noticed the prolific amount of work she put into WP. My condolences to her family. - wolf 02:27, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Miss you

I just do. Rest in peace. Firestar464 (talk) 11:07, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Rest In Peace

I’ve only just seen the awful news of your passing. This makes me regretful that our interactions were made antagonistic from my end. I feel I robbed myself of a better camaraderie with a dedicated and earnest editor such as yourself. Wherever you may be now, I wish you peace. Rusted AutoParts 16:55, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Deep and dreamless slumber

	The Legacy Barnstar
	Thank you for your time, energy, and hard work improving Wikipedia. Your contributions live on here, in the articles themselves. May you always be remembered. Viriditas (talk) 19:48, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Damn...

LessHeard vanU (talk) 09:54, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A message for you

Thank you for all your service. You will be remembered. Firestar464 (talk) 11:49, 9 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Precious and remembered

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It hurts to know you are gone

Flyer, you are missed, remembered, and mourned. Wikipedia is a darker place without you. AlexEng^(TALK) 09:12, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A candle for those we lost

Zaereth (talk) 09:24, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So sorry

I only just now heard this sad news. Flyer22 was one of the good ones - I'm very sorry to hear of her illness and death. Tvoz/talk 01:58, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to hear

I have been away from Wikipedia and I return to see the sad passing of not only Flyer22 but SarahSV who commented on the discussion about Flyer's obituary just months before her own death. I am generally a skeptic but I always hold out hope for some form of an afterlife, in some dimension, some universe, some time, somewhere. Best wishes. —DIYeditor (talk) 04:00, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Always precious

Eight years ago, you were found precious. You will be remembered! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:09, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your absence is still felt

I've been thinking about you the last little while, Flye. A new friend here has a memoriam page for lost community members and it got me thinking of you and others I will always miss here in my own time remaining. Actually, she reminds me of you in the more general sense as well, now that I think about it; I think you would really liked her. I don't believe in an immaterial soul, other than in a metaphorical sense, so I'm not sure who I'm talking to. Myself, I guess. I just felt the need to say I miss you, and still can't help but think of you when working on certain things. I'll check in on some of your articles for you. SnowRise ^{let's rap} 20:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Devastated

I took a break from editing in 2019 and I came back today. While I was gone, I thought many times about what a brave and strong editor you are, how Wikipedia is in safe hands as long as you keep watch, how you manage to dedicate so much of your time to ensuring Wikipedia stayed good, and how I would message you as soon as I come back. Now that I'm back 5 years later, I learn that not only are you retired, but that you passed away in 2021...

I cannot describe my shock and pain. I wish you are not actually gone but just taking a break from Wikipedia. I wish you are still here through some other account. Anything but the news of your passing. We had a somewhat antagonistic start but I soon came to realize that you were actually trying to help. You were so smart, so caring, so helpful, so dedicated, so courageous, full of integrity. You were my go-to person if I ever needed help regarding Wikipedia policies or anything really. You were my mentor. I will miss you so much Flyer. I am still shocked. I wish I had known you more, though that would have made news of your passing even more painful. I feel like I've lost a friend and want to mourn.

Thank you for your matchless contributions to Wikipedia, your guidance, your help and the kindness you showed to me. I will always remember you. My heartfelt condolences to your family. - Human10.0 (talk) 14:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]