Talk:Made in America (The Sopranos)

General Discussion

All of this is ridiculous. If people insist on posting "speculation", which is pretty silly by itself, then at the very least they would have to link to non-original research like any other article. Otherwise people are just using Wikipedia to post fan fiction. Schrodingers Mongoose 04:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree. There's no point trying to spoil people's anticipation or curiosity about an event that's to come. Wikipedia should be about the interpretation and representation of what's already happened and been seen, etc. There are plenty of blogs out there for spoilers, fan fiction, and speculative nonsense. Bgibson1 05:47, 10 June 2007 (UTC) BGibson1, 11:45 MT

I've given up trying to revert vandalism because "good people" are editing the page too fast. ThunderE6 02:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

• The article is mistaken - "Made In America" opens up with Tony lying prose in his hideout bed, backdropped by a pop song that begins with church bells (read: as in a funeral). Please tell me someone remembers that, and will be responsible enough to insert that within this article! I cannot BELIEVE that the so-called editors of this page missed that! David Chase (in my opinion only) made it clear that Tony died - in various ways - but left it ambiguous so that fans don't feel short-changed by some random and sudden shooting scene that ends Tony's life. That show ended perfectly. Either way, Tony was screwed in the end (even for people who don't believe that he was shot and killed, he was still probably facing charges from the government).

"The car crawls forward, rolling over and crushing Phil's head, causing an onlooker to vomit, but is brought to a stop by an onlooker who reaches inside the vehicle."

Can we please have the editing ban lifted so that this grammatical hack-job can be cleaned up?

74.101.253.224 14:49, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

ending

TALK PAGES ARE NOT A FORUM Parjay 18:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, this entire Talk section should be removed. If you want to speculate and debate, do it at one of the hundreds of websites designed for that purpose. "I think this is what happened" is not going to improve the quality of this article.KyuzoGator 20:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

if you would look back to the original intention for this sections is was to find out if the 11 second balck out was a glich or an intended part. How it got blown to how the ending was bad is beyond me --BYMAstudent 02:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

The Lady, or the Tiger?

• I would suggest putting a link to The Lady, or the Tiger? in discussing the ending. It's intentionally left vague, in the same way that the story's ending was left vague. How you interpret it or what you think will happen next is supposed to be an insight into your own psyche. 24.107.23.241 02:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that if the cut to black and lack of music has to be read as Tony's death. If they wanted an ambiguous, why not just end the episode? As many people commented, if the black screen was an ambiguous ending, it was a bit lame. I think that we need to give the writers / producers more credit than that - I suspect they thought that it was obvious that he was dead.

Definitely a link to The Lady, or the Tiger?, a classic story that involves the reader as much as it involves good narrative, which in a sense is what this series has done.

Of course they didn't "think it was obvious he was dead". They left the whole thing perfectly ambiguous, and there's plenty of subtext to suggest that he is not dead - the movie never ends, it goes on and on and on and on, and so forth. john k 21:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hommage?

• Was It another Godfather reference?

A Hommage to the scene in the Godfather when whoever comes out of the bathroom??--68.94.62.131 20:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Twilight Zone

Does anyone which Twilight Zone episode that was? MrBlondNYC 03:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

What you're gonna do? Everything's black. Kakun 03:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Why are anonymous IPs still shown in the edit list?

It says that they were banned from editing this article until the 11th. It doesn't look like they're doing this article much good either.--Folksong 04:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

it seems to have calmed down now...~ Tarabyte 22:05, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Tony's probable death

I believe that Tony dies right as the screen goes black. If you recall in the episode "Sopranos Home Movies", when Tony and Bobby are talking on the lake about getting shot. Bobby replies "You probably never see it coming." Well I strongly believe this explains the ending. The guy in the baseball cap looks suspicious throughout the entire scene and keeps looking back at something. Then as he gets up to go to the restroom you can see him fidgeting with something around his belt. Then it shows Tony eating an onion ring, looking up at Meadow entering the restaurant, and hearing the final "Don't Stop" before the screen goes blank. I believe the man in the baseball cap shot Tony and we were seeing death from Tony's point of view.

I also have heard all night that the man in the baseball cap had a strong resemblance to one of the guys from the earlier seasons (I do not remember his name or the episodes) but he owed Tony money and Tony ended up taking his sports shop. The guy then took his son's vehicle and presented it to Tony who in turn gives it to Meadow. Meadow recognizes that it's her friend's vehicle and denies it. The guy in the baseball cap could have been that man.

• According to this article it was not the same person... ~Tarabyte 08:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the guy who owned the sports shop tony "busted out" was Robert Patrick, the T-1000 from Terminator. --Fxer 15:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

That link from the Phillyburbs.com is not referring to Robert Patrick though. It's referring to the man at the bar who many people think whacks Tony after coming out of the bathroom. The main reason for this is because some thought that he was Nikki Leotardo, Phil's nephew, who was seen earlier in Season 6. However this is NOT TRUE. As that link shows, the guy at the bar was never in a previous episode and was just played by some random guy from NJ.--Freepablo 03:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Agent Harris...

It seemed that Agent Harris was gloating about the news of Phil's death. Like he wanted Phil to die, to get him off the streets. But I was trying to figure out though if he also thought it'd tie back to Tony somehow, and perhaps secretly wanted Tony to go down. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but am trying to figure out what Agent Harris' real thoughts were when he seemed pleased upon hearing that news. ~Tarabyte 08:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I am pretty sure agent Harris excitedly said "they're winning", after hearing of Phil's death, meaning that he was rooting for Soprano to win the war." Justinmcl 209.146.241.93 12:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I think Harris was supposed to be so stressed with the Anti-Terror thing that he was kind of living vicariously through Tony, in a world where there actually were results for all his hard work. --W.marsh 15:02, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought Harris said: "We're gonna win this!" Which I suppose could mean 2 things, either he wants Tony to simply win the gang war, or he wants Tony to live to face trial, because he knows the Fed's hand.

Harris wasn't working Organized Crime anymore so I don't think he cared about bringing Tony down because it wasn't his case anymore. Tony helped him out and he returned the favor. MrBlondNYC 02:07, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Screen goes blank

When the screen went blank at the end, I thought something was wrong with the transmission signal to my TV and I was going to miss the ending of the show (Did anyone else experience that?). I don't know whether such 'screw with the viewer' approach was intended, but if we can find a WP:RS that indicates such a view, it should be included in the article. -- Jreferee 14:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

The screen blacking out was the intended ending. ~Tarabyte 21:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Original Research in the Speculation

"This scenario is weakened by the fact that the final screenshot was on Tony, yet you did not seen a gun, see a gun shot flash, or hear a sound. If Tony had been shot, the shot would have been heard or seen before the bullet impacted him. In order for the shot and death to be instantaneous, the gun would have had to be against his head, which it was clearly not."

Many bullets are supersonic. He'd likely be dead before he ever heard a thing. For example, a 9 mm bullet travels at about 1150 ft/s, whereas the speed of sound is 1128 ft/s. I'm deleting this last part. KyuzoGator 16:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I would think you would hear it. If the speed of a 9mm bullet is only 22 ft/s faster then sound and the bullet slows down by more then that (by the skin/skull before hitting the brain) then it would be very possible that the sound wave could reach the ear before the bullet exploded your brain. (what a strange argument). C5mjohn 20:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

This is all OR. john k 21:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

It's Tony's life, and they say you never hear the one that gets you. --Golbez 22:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Specific brands?

Why are the specific cars named and linked? While I realize that the Sopranos always have used some placement of car brands, the "BMW M3", "Nissan XTera," and Meadow's car (can't remember its name) all disrupt the flow of the article and seem unimportant. Anyone else?

75.185.245.122 17:24, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Because as said later in the article, the two people who seem to have problem with the American dream in the series drive foreign cars. In this episode there was a large amount of Americana.--Freepablo 03:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

DeVecchio's "we're going to win this thing" reference.

I don't know how to edit citations so if someone could do this I'd appreciate it. This real life incident is detailed on page 341 of Selwyn Raab's book Five Families: The Rise, Decline, and Resurgence of America's Most Powerful Mafia Empires. I just finished the book a few days ago and dug up the source.

• I added the citation for you. ~Tarabyte 21:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

original research or fact?

An anon user claimed that a gunshot was heard after the credits finished rolling. Tarabyte 22:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I just watched the episode for about the forth time, and I heard no gunshot when the screen went black. --Raderick 23:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

OR, and in any case, not one reliable source has claimed that there was a gunshot at the end of the credits, so it couldn't go in the article anyway. Me suspects vandalism. Ramsquire ^{(throw me a line)} 23:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)