Talk:Gumstix

Could someone put a metric ruler instead of a coin in the gumstix picture?, coins are quite country specific and means little outside the specific nation. Electron9 09:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Even worse, the view is clearly not from directly above. This causes the coin in the foreground to appear slightly larger than the gumstix board and makes judging scale difficult. --Imroy 11:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The exact dimensions are given in the article.--agr

Well the point of the picture is to give a intuitive hint I presume..? Technical data is abstract. Electron9 21:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

If you want I can snap a picture of my gumstix. BJ^Talk 18:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, got any metric ruler ..? Electron9 21:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

How about using a stick of chewing gum instead -- wouldn't that be universal enough? Or a combination of all the above, since metric rulers would also be a bit non-intuitive to some folk? Seriously, it seems enough that the dimensions are given...

Check images at http://docwiki.gumstix.org/Gumstix_images Is a official Wiki under CC, and have clear comparation size images (any more global of a Coca-Cola? :) ).--Museo8bits 14:35, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Today, I updated the photo to show a verdex board compared to an iPod - Don A @ Gumstix. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Donnay (talk • contribs) 14:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

Gumstix article needs improvement; conflicts of interest.

It appears as though the principal editing of this page has been performed by the corporate officers of Gumstix, in violation of Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest. Gumstix officers: Please read and pay attention to Wikipedia:Suggestions_for_COI_compliance since you clearly wish to participate in the evolution of this article about your company.
The subject has potential encyclopedic merit and does not meet the "Blatant advertising" criteria for speedy deletion. However, the article is presently written in the style of an advertisement masquerading as an article, and has severe linkspam that needs to be removed immediately. The notability of Gumstix has not been established in the article. Since Gumstix probably is notable, I have tagged it with Template:Importance rather than Template:Notability. Regardless, the article should be proposed for deletion if notability cannot be established within a reasonable period of time.
Oskay 22:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The COI editing has not ceased, and has included a very inappropriate removal of a template requesting information about the notability of this subject. There are indeed constructive ways, allowed by Wikipedia policy, that even those with a conflict of interest can contribute to this article and shape its development. However, please note that per Wikipedia policy, "Accounts that appear, based on their edit history, to exist for the sole or primary purpose of promoting a person, company, product, service, or organization in apparent violation of this guideline should be warned and made aware of this guideline. If the same pattern of editing continues after the warning, the account may be blocked." You have been warned. Oskay 06:58, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, i'll try to help adding information the CMO of Gumstix forgot to mention here -lack of documentation and contradictions, limited warranty-. Feel free to correct my small contribution if it's somehow biased and comment here if citations to a mailing list archive are invalid or more are needed. Iunaw (talk) 19:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

another wiki - gumstix user wiki

http://gumstix.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page --Emesee (talk) 06:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality Dispute

I've added the neutrality dispute flag because almost all information on this article has been written by a Gumstix Inc employee, and now, after i made a contribution, i see it has been removed and replaced by, in my opinion, misleading information by Dvescovi (please, do not mess with my edit again, leave this to someone neutral). I've asked Oskay if he could help, as he is a neutral party. We should make a list of facts/contributions here, on the discussion page, to let that someone neutral takes the information to the article. Iunaw (talk) 01:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Facts/Contributions to the Gumstix article (Discussion)

Dvescovi: your (undone) "contribution" after deleting mine is in my opinion misleading: "Most Gumstix documentation, schematics and Printed Circuit Board layouts are online and made available under the Creative Commons ShareAlike license"

You are telling that most documentation is online, which is considered a feature, but omitting that there is no printed documentation, something that any customer would expect, even for a toaster. You say that most schematics are available in CC license, but omit to say that motherboard schematics are proprietary/closed-source. We are not here to say if that is good or bad, but to give complete information. If this article is only here to explain how wonderful Gumstix is, that is, to promote Gumstix (aka SPAM) it should be proposed for immediate deletion.

You have deleted:

• Gumstix products come with no documentation at all, this is a fact
• Customers have to search themselves on the mailing list archives or on the user wiki, this is a fact
• Information is split on different faq's, articles and mailing list posts that sometimes contradict each other, this is a fact
• Some parts are not documented anywhere yet, but users can ask on the mailing list where most questions are answered, this is a fact

I consider this information as very useful to any potential customers/interested persons. Usually this kind of products come with lots of printed documentation, schematics, examples and application notes, and Gumstix comes with NONE. Only part of them are online, and spread on their wiki/web servers and mailing list archives with some contradictions. I've never seen a product documented this way

Iunaw (talk) 01:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Update: I would even add that Gumstix Inc does not seem to have any interest in having it's products documented, as most wiki edits on their wiki have been done by it's users themselves, the gumstix.net website has lots of "coming soon" sections and no serious efforts have been done by the company to correct this lack of documentation (in years!). It should be added on a criticism section, as this is more a subjective issue. I'll add it to the list as optional. Customers should know what they can and cannot expect from the company. Iunaw (talk) 04:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

---

3rd Party Projects:

If 3rd party WinCE info and links to projects are added, it should be clear that WinCE is not supported by Gumstix - it could be put on a separate section for 3rd party Iunaw (talk) 02:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

---

Links:

A link to the gumstix mailing list on nabble could be added, if it's considered useful info: http://www.nabble.com/Gumstix-f22543.html

And information of the article should be updated, as currently gumstix uses OpenEmbedded Linux- there are some users that use the older buildroot (the SDK mentioned on the article) through. There are two wikis, the new one (linked on the article) is on http://gumstix.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page the old one in http://docwiki.gumstix.org/Main_Page -do we add both? Iunaw (talk) 03:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

We should remove the external link 'Microsoft Presentation by Don Anderson, Gumstix CMO' (to http://content.digitalwell.washington.edu/msr/external_release_talks_12_05_2005/14736/lecture.htm) as it's either a broken link or a broken page that works only in microsoft's universe Iunaw (talk) 09:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

TODO List: (add/remove/change after an explanation on the discussion section above)

• Check for any biased information on the article
• Add that motherboard schematics are proprietary and expansion board schematics images are available under CC Share-A-Like license [DONE]
• Add in criticism section that Gumstix Inc does not seem to be interested in documenting it's products properly (optional-being considered)
• Remove broken link [DONE] and update info to openembedded build environment

Removed opinions, restored Windows CE links

lunaw obviously has an ax to grind and this should not be a forum for his opinions. This is quite apparent from his over use of the words “I” and “in my opinion” in both his comments on this and his edits on the main page. Everyone in the community is quite aware that Gumstix does not release their motherboard schematics. My original edit stated, “Most schematics and board layouts are available” which is absolutely true and should have not been deleted. In any case, I reworded to state “peripheral interface ..” to make it clearer. Also, my original edit clearly stated that the “Windows CE” development was not associated with Gumstix Inc. I am aware of the legal implications and there is a disclaimer at the top of the page if you care to follow the link and in the original edit.. Gumstix software development is very much “community” driven, much like this web site. As such, we are use to getting most of our information online. Wikipedia is a testament to this. I restated to say no “printed” documentation is available, to say, “Gumstix comes with no documentation at all” is just plan wrong and only shows your obvious frustration. Dvescovi (talk) 13:42, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Dvescovi: No opinions have been added to the article, please don't lie as it's very easy to check the article's history. And you still don't know how Wikipedia works: I don't care if the Gumstix comunity is quite aware that motherboard schematics are proprietary, this is an encyclopedic article that has to be as accurate as possible, including all relevant information, not only what you think that should include and omit the relevant parts you don't like. I repeat it to you in case you still do not understand it: You are deliberately deleting parts of this article to change it with incomplete/incorrect and biased information. This is not tolerated on Wikipedia and i recommend you to read the Wikipedia policies before you make any new edit. I have moved the information of your project to a newly created 3rd party section with a link to the website. And that gumstix products come with no documentation at all is true, as no customer has received any user manual, product brochure, specifications, warranty information or any documentation at all, as you would expect. Parts of this information is online, as stated on the article, but Gumstix products still doesn't come with them. Stop removing content and adding misleading information instead. If you can't be neutral, do not edit on Wikipedia or ask for help to a neutral party, as i have done. This discussion is to seek consensus, and i won't participate in an edit war. Iunaw (talk) 02:44, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

If you count you will see 5 uses of the word "I" in just the above comment alone. Everyone is all for factual repersentation. Commentary belongs in a commentary section and not on a product description page. So what is the CIO entered the original content information, is was factual, informative and allowed under the Wikipedia rules. There was to blatant attempt to advertise .. only to inform. Dvescovi (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

This is the discussion page, you should learn first how Wikipedia works, this is not a "product description page" Iunaw (talk) 14:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Point by point:

• Gumstix products come with no documentation at all, this is a fact

Not true, just not "printed" documentation ..corrected on main page.

When you buy a product you expect it to come with documentation, product brochures, specifications, warranty information, and in this kind of products even application notes and examples, schematics, etc. and Gumstix comes with none. Part of this information is online, as it is stated on the article, but this products come with no documentation at all. You are not correcting anything, but removing content and replacing it with missleading information, omitting parts you don't like, it seems. Iunaw (talk) 03:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I fail to see how correcting to read "Does not come with printed documention.." could in anyway be construded as missleading information. I was only attempting to make the page better. Dvescovi (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

No you don't. You only have to see the history page of the article. You are removing information without discussion, only because it does not represent your point of view. You are adding misleading information (removing facts to replace them with incomplete and biased information). You haven't talked about other improvements to the article, you do not seek consensus, you don't have any interest in collaborating with Wikipedia. You are abusing it to represent your point of view. Iunaw (talk) 14:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• Customers have to search themselves on the mailing list archives or on the user wiki, this is a fact

This is only true if you do not have any electronics, computer background or are a novice.

Gumstix products come with no documentation, the only resource you have is to search the mailing list archive and the wiki, but in your universe online information isn't needed either because "This is only true if you do not have any electronics, computer background or are a novice." so it's pretty intuitive, and all other companies documenting their products are wasting their time because it's not really needed. Well, this is an encyclopedic article, allow me to give complete and accurate information in case someone does not see it like you do. And for your information, in some counties it's illegal to sell products without any documentation (online documentation is a *feature* printed is *mandatory*) Iunaw (talk) 03:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Simply stating that information is available in all forms. Your use of the statement "..waisting their time because it's not to really needed" is a grose mistatement. I have purchased several products with no documentation. Even products from top tear manufacturer. Online is my, and probably most everybody elses, first source now a days. Dvescovi (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm happy you don't expect any documentation with your products, but as i said it's not what an ordinary user would expect. I even told you that it's illegal to sell electronic products without documentation in a lot of countries. This is your point of view, and i'm trying to be objective and give accurate and complete information, while you are doing the opposite. Iunaw (talk) 14:29, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• Information is split on different faq's, articles and mailing list posts that sometimes contradict each other, this is a fact

This is just a fact of community development. Communities are composed of the whole spectrum of users from the novice to the experts. Many times the information is contradictory or in some cases just plane wrong. This should not be a reflection of Gumstix Inc. but the community at large. Place comments like these in a "rant" section but I would be carefull, I don't think you would get much sympathy here as Wikipedia operates in very much the same way. A constructive comment would be to suggest a "moderator" to filter commentary and content correctness.

This is not only community development, it's the only documentation source that exists for this product. And any new customer will have to deal with it because there is no other option. I don't want your sympathy or form anyone else, we are here to give complete and accurate information. If gumstix has no official documentation it's because they don't care. If information is split and some parts contradict each other it's because Gumstix Inc hasn't corrected it. It's not the job of gumstix customers to reverse engineer and document the products that Gumstix Inc sells, it's something that some users are doing voluntary with their best will. Iunaw (talk) 03:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

This is not the only documentation, and there are another option. For example, Windows CE (who's information and link you deleted) is also available. It has seperate documentation and is a viable alternate source of information. Your comment "no official documentation it's because they don't care" is just an obvious emotional characterazition which is just a reflection on the author. How does he know the intentions of Gumstix Inc.?

Dvescovi (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

You are free to mention it here so we can add it to the article. And i haven't deleted the information of your project, i've created a 3rd party section and information is there (even more complete), you only have to read this discussion page and the article's history. And read the whole discussion page, as i'm saying that the comment you cite is subjective. And BTW why do you think that there is still no official documentation after years? Iunaw (talk) 14:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• Some parts are not documented anywhere yet, but users can ask on the mailing list where most questions are answered, this is a fact

Somtimes.

Sometimes yes and sometimes not, great.. It seems you agree here, but you have removed it because you think this information is not useful to potential customers or interested persons, right? That some parts of a product are not documented anywhere is normal in your universe, and does not deserve to be mentioned on Wikipedia. Iunaw (talk) 03:28, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I never said it was normal, just becomming more common place. This is just a "fact of life" (and more so in our "online universe") that should be debated elsewhere, not on a product description page.

Dvescovi (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Dvescovi (talk) 15:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Nobody is going to believe this, sorry. And in any case it's relevant information you're removing with bad faith. And i repeat it again, this is not a "product description page" but a discussion page of the Gumstix article on Wikipedia. Iunaw (talk) 14:42, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Reverting Dvescovi deletions and other updates

Dvescovi's deletions have been restored, a warning has been added to his talk page and discussion continues here. We'll try to seek consensus and avoid an edit war. We could need a neutral party for a final check for biased information after discussion ends and consensus is reached. Information on the article has to be complete and not misleading, and no relevant information can be omitted deliberately. Iunaw (talk) 03:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC) I totally agree. Dvescovi (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC) If you agree why are you still deleting relevant information you don't like? You are not discussing it here to try to reach consensus, you are editing the article on your own to remove that parts, and you say here "i agree"? you say A and make then B. are you interested in improving the whole article? (other parts that need upgrade as i mentioned) because it seems you come here only to change some parts to reflect your POV and forget the rest Iunaw (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Other updates to the article: the dead link mentioned above has been removed, a section for 3rd party has been added and the new openembedded build system on gumstix has been mentioned. Should we remove now any information from the old buildroot build system and update it to the current openembedded build system or do we mention both in the article? Iunaw (talk) 03:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Update i forgot to mention: I've added the following paragraph: "Gumstix motherboard schematics are proprietary and are kept secret, but expansion board schematics images and layouts are available online under the Creative Commons Share-alike license." This is more accurate than just saying "Most Gumstix schematics and Printed Circuit Board layouts are online and made available under the Creative Commons ShareAlike license" because you think that "Everyone in the community is quite aware that Gumstix does not release their motherboard schematics" (I'm starting to think you are here to SPAM, as you deliberately delete and omit everything negative to Gumstix) Iunaw (talk) 04:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC) I corrected to state "moterboard board schematics are proprietary" and included a link to definition of "proprietary". To say "kept secret" is wrong. Please read the definition of "propritary" there is a difference.

The comment "Most Gumstix schematics and Printed Circuit Board layouts are online" was corrected in a previous edit (again, which you saw to delete).

Dvescovi (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Request for page protection

I have asked for page protection until dispute is resolved as Dvescovi keeps removing content ignoring the discussion page, the neutrality dispute and the uw-npov3 warning on his talk page. Has no interest in seeking consensus and has no appreciable interest in expanding the article with any contributions. He doesn't even know what a discussion page is and how Wikipedia works (i'll add some links to his talk page)

Dvescovi: You are removing information ("Some parts are not documented anywhere yet") because you consider it's negative for Gumstix, but this is not your private place to make SPAM, i have told several times that we have to seek consensus, give accurate and complete information and to avoid omitting relevant information deliberately. I even told you we should ask for help to a neutral party, but this doesn't seem to interest you (no comments on this issue so far) Iunaw (talk) 14:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I totally welcome independent third party resolution. Please, I invite it. Also please read the definition of Shared Source, a link has been provided on Wikipedia. Please be informed before posting, especially on legal issues.

Dvescovi (talk) 14:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Iunaw (talk) 14:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Protection declined, content in the article need to be attributed to reliable sources. I recommend that editor take a break an obtain sources before making any further alterations. Gnangarra 15:06, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

If you look at the article's history you'll see i added references on the first edit, but the contributions and citations were removed without discussion (this first deletion leaded to the beginning of the neutrality dispute) Iunaw (talk) 19:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I have done my very best to say neutral and provide information like the links and definition like "Shared Source" and "proprietary". I do not think personal attacks like "He doesn't even know what a discussion page is and how Wikipedia works" helps your case.

You have removed information without discussion, even after i set the neutrality dispute flag to attract your attention, you even keep doing it yet and it should be believed that you are doing your best to stay neutral? and after i told you to not remove relevant information. this is really shocking. and please don't consider it an attack, there's nothing wrong with it, but you are saying that opinions should not take place on the "product description page" and we are discussing on the talk page and not on the article (what you call product description page) ?? Iunaw (talk) 19:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I would invite ANY neutral third party to review the discussion and edits. I have no interest in "flameing" anyone and I do not work for, or are in anyway affiliated or associated with Gumstix. I love Wikipedia and hate to see it used in this way:(

Why are you trolling now? I was talking about neutral third party help one week ago, and you haven't said *anything* until yet that you are blocked. I have been waiting, but you have been removing relevant information you don't like to replace it with your misleading POV. And you say that you have done your best to stay neutral and that you are not affiliated in any way with Gumstix? Why don't you want that some aspects of Gumstix are documented here if they are relevant? You don't seem to have any conflicts with the Gumstix's CMO edits here, you are only vandalizing my contributions because they are the negative part, the points that should be worked out by the company. You are trying to do advertising here, censuring anything that is negative to that company, no matter if i'm here trying to reach consensus and contributing relevant information with references that could be usefull to potential customers/interested persons Iunaw (talk) 19:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone obviously took great pains to put together the main page only to inform, its a shame you choose to trash it this way. Dvescovi (talk) 15:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

So we are trashing the contributions to Wikipedia from a Gumstix Inc employee because it's not advertising anymore and includes the negative aspects too? That is not the purpose of Wikipedia, i'm sorry. As i'm repeating again and again, we are here to give complete and accurate information, avoiding to omit intentionally relevant aspects. You really want that information on this article remains incomplete, inaccurate and misleading, and that's why you don't discuss how it could be rewritten, you simply remove what you don't like! Iunaw (talk) 19:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Please be aware I would never suggest baring anyone from this or any other page, as Mr. lunaw has, especially those most knowledgeable of the product line. These are just desperate attempts at POV pushing, as most of us are quite aware. The over use of adjectives, and his inability to speak in a neutral, “third person” voice are all evidence to that fact. If anything we should encourage Mr. lanaw to continue, after all he himself presents my best evidence. I would encourage Mr. lanaw to familiarize himself with the Wikipedia rules, which would allow him to make more compelling arguments. I am sorry Mr. lanaw had a bad experience with the product but there are others who use it quite successfully and enjoy working with it. Dvescovi (talk) 12:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)