Talk:Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

More Info

June 16th 2005 - Renegade Zero: I completely revamped the entire page including release dates, pictures, plot summaries etc.

We desperatly need more information on this film.

The link to the preview script is sadly dead... Does anyone have a copy of the document ? I can host it on another server...

Preview Script?

Are you talking about a transcript of the preview videos shown at the Venice and Montreal film festivals? I have a copy as well as an audio recording. Also, I believ that Rufus Shinra should be included in the returning characters list.--IdoAlphaOmega 06:28, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

do u know that rufus is a returning character? if u have a statement or proof that he is it should be added (with a link somewhere) however if not then we should wait till the film is released so we can add/remove people. since the movie is very close to release we might as well wait.

Release date change

I changed the release date to that which is on the official trailer on the AC website. It says the date for japan is 1 day after that of america. Not really a dreadfully important detail but i thought it should be corrected just to be accurate. -Tik

Some sites have pre orders for August 14. -- Psi edit

I believe it, your referring to places like suncoast or other movie stores im presuming? if your know the names of some of the companies you could list one or 2 and state that preorders are being taken place, this would be helpful but would have to be removed post-release.

Never mind I was wrong. -- Psi edit

Lol :( well its ok, i bet pre-orders will take place soon so you werent completely wrong, just got your date mixed up ;) -tik

Yeah I know. Best Buy has a preorder. I just misread the date. -- Psi edit

Actually does anyone know exactly where to get a DVD copy of the movie when it comes out? So far Gamestop is releasing the DVD at November which I think is absurd. -- Psi edit

Thank you to whoever changed the wording for the original release date in hte opening paragragh, if anyone read the EGM for this month it had an interview with i think the release date somewhere in the article. i dont have it in front of me but yeah november is the new target area for release date, hey Psi, u may be able to stop at any dvd store who regularly gets new titles like best buy and circuit city. gamestop online maybe but not the store.Tik 15:18, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

== English Translation ==:

Not that I doubt a translation but has there been one officialy announced? I ask this because the all trailers are in Japanese and have subtitles. Except the one with english Narration (which makes an english version inevitable) -- Psi edit

yes the dubbed version began recording just month(s) ago so they will be finished for the 2 to launch simultaneously, hence the release dates. voice actors have yet to be confirmed though. i think they did the japanese version first to make sure everything was working out and not to waste money on english translation only to go back and change it, which makes since. -Tik

Thats good. Thanks for confirming. -- Psi edit

Cinema

I've read from some FF websites that Final Fantasy VII; Advent Children will be released in cinema for Japan on 8 and 10 of September 2005 and the mondial's before-première (I don't know the exact term, I'm not english, but you should understand) in Europe on end-2005 at the 62nd Festival of Venise. If you go to the Japanese website of Advent Children and go to the info section's 2nd page, you can see 9.8 and 9.10 which must stand for these two dates, but I can't confirm they're talking about a cinema release date as I don't understand Japanese. – DarkEvil 14:02, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

I'm a native Japanese, but I can write poor English... I translate literally.

September 8, JAPAN Premier (previewing event)

September 10, private screening　(opening to the public)

"JAPAN Premier" is preview event's name.

Darc 15:14:49, 2005-08-05 (UTC)

• Well, thanks for the help! This should confirm a Japanese Cinema release date. – DarkEvil 15:39, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

– Sadly though, it will most likely not be seen across shores. Even if it is, the likelyhood of it reaching non metropolis areas is very very low. We will just have to get it on DVD.--216.212.238.38 19:59, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Rufus revert

How do you know this is rufus, do you have proof? If you have a SE comment or a character states the person in the wheelchair is rufus in the trailer than you can keep the revert with link to source, however if you have no proof its no good and shouldnt be included.-Tik

Well it would mean the world to me to have your permission to edit this article, so I'll play along.

From Wikipedia:
Rufus Shinra returns as a character in the upcoming Final Fantasy VII movie sequel, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, produced by Square Enix. In previews and trailers, Rufus is seen sitting in the wheelchair shrouded in a blanket. He is said to be at this point suffering from the last stages of the disease called Geostigma. Rufus tries to enlist the help of Cloud Strife, but he also appears to be in league with the three silver-haired men, Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, who are enemies to Cloud in the movie.

Also, I take it you haven't seen the 25-minute preview of Advent Children, because that shows you who the man in the wheelchair is, along with Rude referring to him as "Mr President."
Do I have your permission? — CuaHL 16:55, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

• Edit: and can you sign your talks comments? It's four tildes - ~~~~ — CuaHL 16:56, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
• Edit 2: It's even in the article itself - Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

  The president of the former Shinra, Rufus is also residing here in a wheelchair. He is also infected with Geostigma and must use a wheelchair. He is using the Turks; Reno and Rude to bodyguard him and also hires Cloud to be one too. He is undergoing searches on the effects that Sephiroth's death had on the Planet.

  — CuaHL 16:59, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

ok then, i was wrong, i hadnt heard anything about this in the news lately so i just wanted to keep from having people put rumors in here, u saw the above topic about rufus, i just figured it was something like that. Didnt mean to come across as rude but you know a lot of fanboys come on here and change things that they just want to see but have no fact. But you proved your point and i support it then, so its cool.Edit sign like this?Edit: resigned article to test signature Tik 12:54, 13 August 2005 (UTC)Tik

• It's no problem. Be assured, these pages are being watched by WikiProject Final Fantasy. I have most of the Final Fantasy articles on my watchlist, and what I don't have others do.. so you'll probably see any vandalism/POV/fancruft removed that same day it was edited in. We still need help though, so if you're interested in the Final Fantasy series and you think you can help the cause why not join us? You'll have to get a registered username first (which in turn will get you more respect than using your IP address anyway). I'd put this on your talk page but I think your IP changes regularly? Take a look and see what you think though — CuaHL 23:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Hey there, i think this Rufus talk is quite messy, i couldn't understand by reading it.. Anyway, i saw the movie, and i really like Final Fantasy, (both the movie and the videogames), so, i'd like to join to... Is there an organization already? Oh, and by the way, yes, the guy in the wheelchair, altought looking like the Emperor on SW, is Rufus. - Lettucefolk 23:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Too many images?

Does anyone else think that there are too many images on this page? There should really only be like 4 or something. It just seems like too much. Thunderbrand 19:32, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, a lot of the images should just be put on the Commons. --Vyran 19:45, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

I highly doubt that they've been released on a free license. Or has Commons changed its criteria for inclusion? - Vague | Rant 10:58, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Leak

Should the article include information about a rip of the DVD being leaked onto the Internet? - Vague | Rant 10:58, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, its pretty notable to get a mention. Also, the lead paragraph seems a bit long. Maybe putting in a line break somewhere in there? Thunderbrand 16:05, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

I noticed there's nothing about the leak there (though I haven't looked to see if it was added and reverted), but in my opinion it's not noteworthy at all -- it was pretty much inevitable anyway. It doesn't seem like it's appropriate for Wiki anyway. Melodia Chaconne 21:21, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

So who's Denzel?

So who's the character of Denzel, and why does he look so much like Cloud? --Brasswatchman 17:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Just some orphan kid Cloud and Tifa adopted. - 211.28.78.104 08:38, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup needed

This article needs some attention pretty badly, IMO. First of all, it's wayyyy too image heavy, and since they're all copyrighted images, I'm getting a little bit nervous that we're going to start attracting attention copyvio attention. To sum up, if we're going to claim fair use, we need to ensure that "the amount of copyrighted material used should be the bare minimum necessary to serve its point on Wikipedia." Thirteen images is pushing it for a single film. The other problem is the story summary. The average length of plot summaries for film-related articles is two or three reasonably brief paragraphs. We've got twelve lengthy paragraphs, which is far too much detail for a general interest encyclopedia. I'd have made the changes myself (and will do so later, if no one else volunteers), but I haven't been among the most actives editors for this article, I wanted to voice my thoughts before committing to anything.... Thoughts and/or comments? – Seancdaug 02:24, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

I for one have no objections, though I haven't worked on the article. Melodia Chaconne 03:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Mysterious Wolf

Does anyone know who the wolf is that stands beside Cloud before he wakes up in the church (toward the end)? The only one I can think of is Seto, but it doesnt make any sense. If anyone does know, please share.

It's a figurative wolf, some claim it's a reference to Zack, others claim it's just a reference to Cloud's 'lone wolf' persona.

The wolf is a representation of Cloud. His bike is called Fenrir, a mythical figure associated with wolves, and the wolf is seen in the film representing Cloud's true nature, eg, at the pool where Aeris was killed, lying next to him in the Church, etc. Cloud's buckle is also a wolf's head, if you're wondering. Valenkorps.

It believe it symbolizes Zack, it is hanging around Zack's grave near the start of the film, and Zack is speaking to Cloud later when you see the wolf again.--Undc23 10:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

The Director's Commentary on the DVD confirms that it's a representation of Cloud's guilt. - Squall of SeeD

On The Way To A Smile merge

I say no to the merge to be honest.. I think the article has potential — CuaHL 18:23, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

There is some existing dicussion on the merge here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Final_Fantasy#On_The_Way_To_A_Smile. Personally I fell that as a short story, it isn't notable enough for it's own article. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 20:10, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

The Manual of Style says an article should have at least to good paragraphs else it should be merged or added to a list. There is potential for more than two paragraphs, and it is definantly a seperate thing from Advent Children.--Undc23 10:41, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

At this point, though, there are only two paragraphs, and the second one is almost certainly way too detailed for our standards. And length isn't really the critical issue, anyway: an article can be as long or as short as we make it. The question is a) is the article of sufficient length without resorting to material not of interest to non-fans, and b) is the article topic itself noteworthy enough to warrant an entry? I could probably write a twelve paragraph article about my seventh grade English teacher, but she's still not encyclopedia-worthy. – Seancdaug 16:52, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I believe that is does connect directly to the Advent Children storyline, therefore making it part of the movie. It would be wiser to merge than create its own article. And it is part of the official website, therefore enforcing the fact that it is just a little bonus info for the movie. I vote for merged. Nemesismo

Kadaj article

I've removed the Kadaj article again, for the same basic reasons I've stated earlier. As a frequent contributor to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion and Wikipedia:Featured article candidates, I can testify to the fact that one of the most frequent complaints about video game related articles is the tendency towards fancruft. The general rule of thumb espoused by most is that characters who appear in only one work do not transcend that work, and therefore do not deserve their own article. In other words, any discussion of Kadaj is, by its very nature, a discussion of Advent Children, and therefore the material belongs here. The only reason to create a seperate article is if it becomes necessary to split this article for space reasons. As it is, there's simply not enough to say about Kadaj, and this article is nowhere near long enough, to justify that. As for the comment "many characters of less importance have their own page," I'm not really convinced that's true, and, even so, I and others have spent a great deal of time moving Final Fantasy-related articles "of less importance" to more appropriate locations (particularly the Final Fantasy Wiki) over the past several weeks. Wikipedia is a general interest encyclopedia, not a fansite, and it is no one's interests to decentralize over several articles information that can and should be included in one. It makes it harder for readers to find the information they need, and harder for editors to keep track of what has already been said. – Seancdaug 20:33, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

If the pages on Kadaj and other minor characters are removed, should there be a "List of Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children characters" page? Or perhaps a subsection of List of Final Fantasy VII characters? --Undc23 10:11, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I was attempting to tidy up the "Jenova" article somewhat, and I saw that Kadaj and his two "brothers" are mentioned regarding their attempt at a Jenova Reunion. While I do think that the events in Advent Children deserve mention on Jenova's page, it's beyond my current level of expertise. I started to scribble out a revision, but my mind eventually blanked out (perhaps due to the fact that it's 3 in the morning). Here it is in case anyone more versed in theories regarding the nature of these silver-haired guys feels inspired to get something a little more "authoritative" about them into Wikipedia. (Unless this has already been done and I'm just being horribly negligent.) Feel free to maul this if it seems useful enough:

[start]The exact nature of Kadaj, Loz, and Yazoo, the silver-haired antagonists of Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, is never spelled out: They are referred to only as Sephiroth's shinentai (思念体) -- translated as the rather vague "spirits" in one fan translation -- and a proper understanding of the term might elucidate the matter. However, they could possibly represent three former members of SOLDIER (Kadaj refers to Rufus as "Boss") who lived beyond the first Reunion, only revealing themselves two years after Sephiroth's "defeat". In the film, their goal is, indeed, to initiate another Reunion, bringing all of "Mother's" cells together and recreating Sephiroth to fulfill the destruction of the Planet and everything on it. Ultimately, Kadaj brings about his "own Reunion", assimilating the head of Jenova (or, at least, what remains of it) and becoming the new vessel of Sephiroth, however briefly.[end]

However, that doesn't get into other Jenova-relevant stuff like Geostigma or how her head can possibly fit into that box. (I suppose they cast "Mini" on it.) Also, it suddenly occurs to me that Kadaj's goal to "get back at the Planet" is somewhat inconsistent with Sephiroth's own plans, to utilize the Planet as a vessel to reach a new world (which also has nothing to do with Sephiroth's original plan involving Meteo and becoming a god by absorbing the Lifestream...). On a pointless side note, Kadaj and the others are all left-handed -- suspicious, considering the only other left-handed FF7 character is you-know-who. -Reichu 07:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

The reason that Kadaj and company don't deserve their own article is because they do not transcend their source material. Any discussion of Kadaj is, by its very nature, a discussion of Advent Children, so the logical place for information about Kadaj is in the Advent Children article. The only reason to create a new article is for space management concerns, which is really not an issue with this article: properly trimmed, there should be more than enough space to deal with Kadaj and every other character within the bounds of this one article. – Seancdaug 20:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes'm, I can see that. I'll probably take a knife to that out-of-control plot summary to make room for some subsections on elements distinct to the film, like the new characters (since something on the "Silver-Haired Men" is sorely needed) and other things, like Geostigma, Bahamut TREMOR, Shadow Creepers, etc. Unless someone else gets to it first. -Reichu 16:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Gallery???

Why do we need a gallery at all? The problem was too MANY pictures, most of which are not public domain, not that we needed to group them for easy viewing. I suspect we need to get rid of the gallery completely and trim the rest of the pictures down to at most 3 or 4. Nezu Chiza 02:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Why is it such a problem (I added the gallery) that there are so many pictures? I dont think theres any real reason to get rid of them. -- Psi edit

It's very likely a copyright violation: we have to be careful how many fair use images we use, and in what capacity we use them. One or two images for illustrative purposes are acceptable, but the large gallery we have now probably isn't. – Seancdaug 03:05, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I dont know how to determine how many images we should have. How do we determine which images are kept and which arent? -- Psi edit

Personally, I would suggest eliminating the gallery altogether, and only using images which we can effectively work into the flow of the article. I would think three screenshots is probably the most that is appropriate, under the circumstances. As for which images we keep and which we lose, well, be bold. It probably doesn't matter too much, in the scheme of things, which images we have, provided we don't have all of them. – Seancdaug 20:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah thats what I meant. -- Psi edit

Bahamut Sin vs. Bahamut Tremor

This article calls Advent Children's incarnation of Bahamut "Bahamut SIN", whereas the Bahamut (Fictional) page calls it "Bahamut TREMOR". This obviously needs to be resolved somehow... -Reichu 18:53, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, nevermind! Google yielded the answer. Here's the scoop: The new Bahamut is called, in Japanese, バハムート・震 or バハムート・シン. They're both the same thing, really; the kanji 震 ("quake, shake, tremble, etc.") is pronounced shin, which is シン in katakana. "Bahamut TREMOR" was obtained by translating the kanji, whereas "Bahamut SIN" was obtained by assuming (quite reasonably) that the katakana represented a foreign word, ergo, "sin". It's not clear why the two versions of the name exist... The latter provides significantly more ambiguity than the former, as shin, in katakana, can be taken to mean a helluva lotta things. Even more confusing is that both versions are used in reference to the same KOTOBUKIYA figure.

In any event, "Bahamut TREMOR" is probably the way to go, unless the English version of the name is officially something else. -Reichu 05:47, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

That makes sense. Thanks for doing the research legwork, Reichu! – Seancdaug 20:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

JUST DOWNLOAD IT

WHY NOT JUST DOWNLOAD THE MOVIE.

IF YOU ALL WERE TRUE FANS, YOU WOULD NOT LET ANYONE OR ANYTHING STAND IN YOUR WAY!

NOW, GET TO IT PEOPLE.

GO ON LIMEWIRE AND TYPE 'FINAL FANTASY ADVENT CHILDREN'

FIND A FILE AT AROUND 700MB AND DOWNLOAD IT THERE SIMPLE.

OH EXCEPT IF YOU DOWNLOAD IT AND IT DOESN'T WORK, YOU WILL NEED TO GO TO THE WEB HELP AND DOWNLAOD THE LATEST CODEC MANUALLY.

AFTERWHICH YOU CAN WATCH THE MOVIE. I HAVE JUST WATCHED IT AND I COULD SINK MY TEETH INTO A BIG MAC RIGHT NOW,

CAUSE IT IS, IN MY OWN OPINION, THE BEST MOVIE OF THE YEAR!