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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Creation vs. evolution debate

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by R.123 (talk | contribs) at 16:32, 12 December 2004 (→[[Creation vs. evolution debate]]: k). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Creation vs. evolution debate

Do not let the word debate fool you. This article does not describe or define a debate. This article IS a debate. An article about a debate should define who is debating, what the motives of the debators are and who starts the debate. This article doesn't do any of these things, but it does introduce every issue raised by creationists without saying that these issues are raised by creationists. Not only is this a debate and not a description of a debate, it is a biased debate. Like most conflicts between creation and evolution, this article was initiated by biblically literal creationists. It does not describe the formalized system of argument between any two sides. It merely defines and states the problems that creationists have with evolution and backs them up with citations. I have no doubt that the major contributors to this article will appear here and vote no (Ungtss, Phillip J. Rayment) and say that the article presents both sides of the debate. This is not true. The most major contributor (Ungtss) has admitted to being biased toward creationism. Please vote yes for the sake of NPOV. Bensaccount 21:27, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • Keep. putting my 2 cents in just to make sure mr. accounts does not win by a majority of one. the discussion history pages will reveal that Mr. Accounts is doing this because he has a personal problem with me, whom he has repeatedly called a moron and liar. Anyone who thinks the page is unfair is welcome to come help me make it fair. Anyone who thinks there is no debate at all (as Mr. Accounts has repeatedly argued) or that evolutionists never debate creationists but only creationists debate evolutionists (which he has also repeatedly argued) is welcome to vote with Mr. Accounts. Ungtss 21:39, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I'm an unremitting evolutionist who believes that the best way to keep creationists in line is to expose their silly arguments. This article seems to me to describe the debate; I don't note any prejudice in how it presents its points. Bensaccount appears a wee bit thin-skinned on this. Denni☯ 21:43, 2004 Dec 11 (UTC)
  • I think this is appropriate for an entry of some sort, but the text inside is pretty POV. I think the main problem is that it is written with too much authority, for example: "Evolutionary theory and Creationism are not mutually exclusive" -- says who? Depends on who's defining the terms. Maybe "Some say evolutionary theory and creationism are not mutually exclusive," then go on to discuss who believes it. But as it stands, the article takes too many liberties and assumes way too much with its authoritative language, for such a hotly debated topic. I'd vote a major cleanup, rather than delete. Katefan0 21:45, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I'm with Denni on this. It is very important to present this debate as accurately as possible. I also agreee with Katefan0 that there are many uncited and undocumented statements in the current page. But I think the page is coming along with great strides and advances. If you would peruse the Talk Page, I think you would see that there is a major effort at collecting good citations from published scholars and polls to ensure that NPOV is reached by the "final stage of this rocket." ---Rednblu | Talk 22:22, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Abstain. I don't know which way to go with this one. The debate is an issue which needs to be covered, but I think the article is terrible. Its very long and therefore difficult to read, certainly has POV problems and uses far too many scientific terms to be understandable by the average person. There are also far too many external links strewn throughout and stacks of other minor issues. I'm not convinced that a good article can be salvaged from it. I'd like to see Creation vs. evolution debate/temp created, by people who are not biased either way, containing just the facts and nothing more. [[User:David Johnson|David Johnson [T|C]]] 23:58, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • No vote. I think the article is in desperate need of cleanup. In particular, it's excessively long, and probably redundant, since many of the topics covered have their own full-length articles. I hesitate to vote either way on deletion (1) because I'm not sure if it's actually redundant or not, and (2) because I'm severely biased. Aerion 01:35, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep and fix it if it's broke. VfD is not a dispute resolution process. Gazpacho 04:55, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep and edit down for length, wordiness. A quick peek at some of the article strikes me a rather balanced. Besides, listing an article because the editors believe one way or another is not valid if they are attempting to be balenced. Good article with potential. hfool 03:50, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • Looking at User_talk:Bensaccount, I see some very disturbing POV statements about the article, including saying the debate is only a debate for the ignorant and considering to make the article a redirect to ignorant. This strikes me very odd, indeed. hfool 03:54, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, but throw the good material into what should be a host of separate articles. Evolution controversy, evidence in support of evolution, evidence against evolution, et cetera. (If my position matters, I'm an evolutionist.) EventHorizon 04:52, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. If it's not an adequate discussion of the topic, work through the information and keep what needs to be kept, throw away what needs to be thrown away, and add what needs to be added. It could probably stand to use a better name, perhaps Creationism vs. evolutionism. [[User:Livajo|Ливай | ☺]] 07:17, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • keep. Yuckfoo 09:02, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • I added the TD tag; I think it's largely unsalvageable morass of POV personal research by creationists, but we do need the article, though it could do with a complete rewrite. Dunc|☺ 12:16, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • keep. However, it is is serious need of a rewrite. CheeseDreams 14:22, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • keep. Just because some of us (probably all of us, certainly including Bensaccount) may be biased (i.e. have made up our own minds on the issue) doesn't mean that we can't write an NPOV article, and this one is still under (very active) development. Philip J. Rayment 14:42, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep for the numerous reasons listed above. —[[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 16:32, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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