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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ingolfson (talk | contribs) at 05:24, 17 January 2007 (→‎Stub message placement). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Grutness would like to wish all visitors to this page a Merry Christmas, (or equivalent festive seasonal greetings). I hope it's a happy one for you and yours.

Please add new discussions at the bottom of the page!

Grutness is slowly easing back on his wikiworkload - any messages posted here may not be read for some time

Earlier talk

I've moved earlier discussions to archive pages (as listed below). A few of the items I've simply got rid of - if I have, it's simply that it was trivial and/or stuff which has been dealt with, and is therefore no longer relevant. The deletion is not a reflection of my opinion of the writers!

Archive pages

10/04-01/05 02/05 03-04/05 04-05/05 05/05
06/05 07/05 07/05 08/05 09/05: 1
09/05: 2 10/05 11/05 12/05 01/06
02/06 03-04/06 05-06/06 07-08/06 09-10/06
11/06*

* = still to archive

Who's this, then?

Your article is much better than mine. - Scooter 05:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still at the embarrassment stage about it - there are far more worthy people that don't have articles yet, but apparently I was a redlink on several pages, so someone decided I needed an article. They seem to have used the "non-article" I wrote as a user subpage as a basis for it. I wondered if it was the same Steve Kramer... shouldn't you have {{Notable Wikipedian}} on the talk page of the article :)? Grutness...wha? 07:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like it's gone now...as for me, I'm not sure how "notable" I am. *shrug* - Scooter 16:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hans,Hant

RFA thanks from Mike

Thank you for your Support on my recent RfA, which I withdrew at 16/20/4. The criticism I received will hopefully result in me learning becoming a better editor, and thanks again for your support!

MfD on Admin Standards pages

Please see this deletion debate. Carcharoth 00:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Sailor

Well that's one way to introduce myself :-p

Hi by the way.

I'm just leaving a message because I don't agree with the comment/"clean-up" thing left on the Hello Sailor's page/talk page above the discography and was wondering what your opinion on it is.

Cheers

RIANZ 03:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and yes I'm a Kiwi.

Hey again I'm working at RIANZ for like two months and do this when I'm bored. I have another prob. The JPS Experience single, Ray Of Shine has a music notability. I think the admin person has a hardon for that since he/she/it did the same thing for a Goodnight Nurse single. So what shall we do? Oh and I'll be adding the Warratahs albums (not all but some) over the next few days.

Cheers

RIANZ 02:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it's all recently added singles (and EPs?). I don't have time to cite a CD back. Really NZ music should just be left to the Kiwi's.
OK it's now the following. Only a little bit. Ray Of Shine‎ by JPS Experience, Go (Steriogram song), Soccerstar‎ & White Trash (song)

by Steriogram, My Only‎ and Death Goes to Disco‎ by Goodnight Nurse. They all have music importance template added to them. I was going to yell at him but since I (after much research... and boredom...) see that you contribute to a lot of NZ music, thought I'd seek you're help again. Sorry to be a pain. Oh and it's some user called User: Palfrey RIANZ 02:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Fairclough's birthday

Hi Grutness. This is kind of a long shot, but I was wondering if you were a Barnet fan. If so, do you know what Paul Fairclough's birthday is? I recently created List of English Football League managers by date of appointment and I can't find a source for Fairclough's birthday anywhere. HornetMike 17:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thomas Burns (New Zealand)

No problem - it was just a way of disambiguating him... I don't profess to have any knowledge on him, hence why I didn't create a stub article. robwingfield (talk) 14:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Grutness, just wanted to say thanks for starting the Thomas Burns article. Certainly notable and nice not to have that red link throughout Otago related articles. Blarneytherinosaur talk 03:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi I am currently going through European film most notably Finland and Belgium. I strongly suggest that a new stub category Finland-actor-stub is set up because soon the Euro-actor-stub cat will be WAY!!! to big. Also this will ease the use of the Finland-bio-stub which will soon be getting to large. Ernst Stavro Blofeld 10:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sinai vs Arabia

What's the difference between the Sinai Peninsula and Arabia?

The satellite views seem to show the same region, yet neither article mentions the other.

Roger Derby

Hi Roger - not quite sure why you've asked me this, but still - I've loaded up a small gif to show the difference. The large green area on this map is the Arabian Peninsula - it includes the country of Saudi Arabia and several other smaller coutries like Yemen, Kuwait and Qatar. The orange area is the much smaller Sinai Peninsula which is now part of Egypt but was occupied by Israel during the 1970s. Grutness...wha? 22:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

stub list

I wasn't aware they were done automaticly now. I just figured since nothing was done for a while, someone had to do it. I'm sorry if I messed anything up, but thanks for letting me know (so I don't waste any time with it). Streetsabre 04:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Māori stubs

I see a pic I took is being used for the Māori stubs. Hmm, I think I should start charging royalties - I'll be rich before I know it. Been a while since we chatted. How are things? Kahuroa

Cheers. Glad you found the pic useful. Yeah, I'm in Auckland, the weather has been crap mostly lately here too. A Wikibreak sounds like a good idea - enjoy your writing. Kahuroa 18:17, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Grutness,

If you have time, I was wondering if you'd take a look at the Virtual classroom I've created for Wikipedians to learn, teach, and share advanced wiki-skills. Right now the participants are engaged in a show and tell of their user interfaces (the tools we use to navigate and work on Wikipedia, including programs, extensions, scripts, settings, etc.). I hope you will stop by to share and compare. Interiot, Rich Farmbrough, and CBDunkerson have been kind enough to help get things started by describing the interfaces they use. User:Interiot has even completed a new Firefox extension to make navigating Wikipedia easier. It is available in the announcements section on the Virtual classroom page.  The Transhumanist   11:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC) [reply]

It looks and sounds like a great idea. Unfortunately my time is a little stretched at the moment, but I will see what I can come up with for it when I have some more free time (next week, with any luck). Perhaps a crash course on stubs - why we have them, why they're marked, etc, since that's what I spend much of my time on. Grutness...wha? 02:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A course on stubs would be cool. The code for setting the font on my user pages to "Trebuchet" is in my page header which is transcluded at the top of each of my user pages (like a template).  The Transhumanist   03:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thank you for anwering my question about templates. XYZ CrVo 22:25, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Any time. Grutness...wha? 03:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dunedin

Thanks for letting me know.

Re: User talk:The Transhumanist#Virtual classroom (eom)

Virtual classroom update and assignment template

We've moved on to our second lesson in the Virtual classroom, though each lesson is continuous so we may see more additions to the interface share and compare as well.

To help keep track of what's going on, here's a template you can place at the top of your userpage or talk page:

Tutorials
User guides to ...
In the wp:Signpost
The published book, online
Help contents

Hope to see you at the Virtual classroom again soon.  The Transhumanist   12:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC) [reply]

The Barnstar of Diligence
is hereby awarded to Grutness for development of a course on stubbing for the Virtual classroom.  The Transhumanist   15:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC) [reply]

As I said

It is kind of silly to have them in that Category. However... if you note my response on J's page,

Difficult one. While I can understand their point of view (it isn't worth having a stub type for only a few articles), I think this is more of a problem of systemic bias rather than "not enough" (e.g. I'm certain there are over 60 notable Tajiks). Perhaps we should just get on creating Tajik people stubs until we have enough for a category? - Francis Tyers · 08:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

- Francis Tyers · 09:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Friendly note

You know it is considered bad form to protect a page you are involved in a dispute on? You should ask an uninvolved admin to do it for you. If you could unprotect it, then ask an uninvolved admin to protect it that would be great. Thanks :) - Francis Tyers · 09:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's all in the interpretation. I don't see it as being me involved in a dispute personally. I'm just protecting it to maintain the decision made at SFD to upmerge the template. It's nothing personal. If that decision had not been made, then I'd have not been involved in this at all. As such, I don't really see it as a conflict of interest. I'll see who I can find though. Grutness...wha? 11:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I've been making some too. We're currently on 52 stub articles that transclude the {{Tajikistan-bio-stub}}. Only 8 to go :) - Francis Tyers · 10:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Dilorom Shermatova next... Grutness...wha? 11:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
2 to go. - Francis Tyers · 11:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And thats 60. Could you advise the next course of action please? - Francis Tyers · 11:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Already done. I've updated the information at WP:WSS/P. With that many stubs, a separate category is now both viable and appropriate. The debate should still be allowed to run for a while before creation - officially it's supposed to run a week, but under the circumstances, that will probably be reduced. Expect to see a category sometime very soon. Grutness...wha? 11:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the help. - Francis Tyers · 11:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, we all get that way sometimes. :) Its good that we could come to an amicable resolution (and help coverage of Tajikistan at the same time)! - Francis Tyers · 11:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That category thing...

Who the hell do you think... oh wait... sorry wrong administrator :-p. Just kidding. I actually don't mind what happens with the Māori category it was just since Cook Island Māori is also now a category (sadly though with the only prominant Cook Islander being Annie Crummer at the moment), and I did get over-zealous and and create it but I notice that we (Māori) are the only one that has the word people in it. I know I may be just being anal but because of that I have to keep an eye on Russell Crowe because it keeps getting deleted (usually with the line... "getting rid of obviously redundant cats" - insulting much! :-p)... oh and Russell Crowe has Māori heritage through his maternal grandmother. SO do what you must. I don't really mind. And I should be awake in oh say about 3 more hours and 5 ore cups of coffee. Coffee! Yeah Baby!

RIANZ 19:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC) PS: Thanks for the help. Just talk to me not at me and also there are double ups with two categories: NZ-Tongans and NZ-Samoans (obviously I'm being lazy and not spelling these proper) have double-ups and I don't know how to merge/delete/rename them as of yet. Coffee time! Cheers again.[reply]

Yeah I live here, or more precise in Auckland, though within the next year I should be one of many NZ ex-pats living in the United States. I had work early today. Sadly I don't work for RIANZ anymore. Stupidly volunteered to help sort the mail in another part of the building. Hah. Ah well I got to finish early so there was an up side. Weather is pretty crappy at the mo here. Hows things at your end of the country? RIANZ 01:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ugh now it's sunny here... though I wonder for how long. :-p RIANZ 02:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Absent_referent

Hi, I have vastly improved the article Absent referent to address the concerns of you and others. The ghits should now include the expression "absent|missing referent|antecedent". I will include redirects for these variations if needed upon closure of AfD. Please consider changing your vote to KEEP. Thanks for your comments! I feel the article is much stronger now, and I have learned much in this process both about the concept and WP in general. --Bhuston 13:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Virtual classroom

I've had a quick look, and nothing huge leaps out at me. No point in making it very much longer in any case, otherwise it'll just duplicate WP:STUB. I'd have sounded a bit more confident in the 40%+ "estimate", but I might be a tad partial. :) Alai 14:58, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK - I'll add a note on WP:WSS that it's there o that others can nit-pick it. Cheers! Grutness...wha? 00:58, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And coming back to the size thing: rather than saying that 50-800 is optimal, for consistency with the guidelines, /ST and /T, etc, I'd suggest something to the effect that it's desired to keep them between 60 and 800. (I suppose bang on one listing page would be 'optimal' in some sense.) Alai 21:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK - I've tweaked the text slightly. Thanks. Grutness...wha? 23:32, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Munich Stub templates

I think Ignore all rules policy is the policy that should be inforced here since the current stub rules prevent WikiProject Munich from improving and maintaining Wikipedia's Munich-related articles. Kingjeff 17:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That seems pretty obvious from your behaviour so far. However, if you check that page, you'll see that it says "If the rules prevent you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore them." what you are doing is to the detriment of wikipedia and is making it harder for others to maintain it. As such, I advise you to check out the pages linked from that page, such as Wikipedia:Use common sense. Grutness...wha? 03:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


This seems like a personal attack to me. Kingjeff 03:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry you think so - it isn't; it's exactly how I would respond to anyone who seems to be trying to disrupt Wikipedia. As has been expained to you, it makes little sense for any wikiproject to have so many stub templates - it fractionates the workload so much as to actually discourage editors from working on the project. as such, you are actually disrupting your own wikiProject. not only that, but you are also disrupting the Stub-sorting project, one which is an overarching project connected to virtually every other wikiproject in Wikipedia. In exactly the same way that process pages like CFD and TFD try to keep the categories and templates in a sensible hierarchy that works well and can be used by everyone on wikipedia, so WSS tries to maintain the same sort of standards for wikipedia's stub templates. Which is why it is requested that any new stub types be proposed for debate prior to creation, and also why stub types which are not proposed and run contrary to stubbing practice or standards get proposed for deletion. To say that your templates are for use primarily by your wikiproject is fine, but to say they are exclusively for that projects use, and are thus in some way WP:OWNed by it is not, since any stub type can be used by any Wikipedian editor and as such should be judged by the same standards as all other stub types. Given that some of the stub types you have created are detrimental to article editing (for reasons already spelt out elsewhere), and also given the excessive number of stub types you have created, is it any wonder there are concerns over these stub types? They are not helping you, they are not helping us - they are not helping anyone on wikipedia, in fact. You have given no logical expanation for why you think so many stub types are useful, nor to why it makes sense for Munich to have seven (and, in your own words, you "could have had more then twice as many") when no other wikiproject of a like nature needs more than three, and the majority manage quite happily with only one or two. Instead, rather than trying to justify the stub types, you have spent much of your time attacking dedicated wikipedians such as Alai and myself for no apparent justifiable reason. Grutness...wha? 04:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's clearly WikiProject Stub-sorting that is disrupting Wikipedia. Not me or anyone else in WikiProject Munich. Kingjeff 04:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Again, it is your prerogative to think so. Have you read those pages I suggested yet? Grutness...wha? 04:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No problem

Thanks for your help too :) - Francis Tyers · 08:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry!

Sorry, I made quite a few similar changes today and guess I forgot to check. Also, for your information, there's two other categories - "Football (soccer) players in New Zealand by club" and "New Zealand football clubs" - that could do with being standardised and avoid future confusion. Iae 22:09, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re:

My mistake. Nareklm 00:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Im pretty new although im getting the hang of this trying hard to become a helper :-) Nareklm 00:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Transnistria-stub

Hi Grutness.

You are right about your example with Kurdistan-(politician)-stub and similar being deleted. The same was the case with Kosovo. However, the debate about {{Transnistria-stub}} must have ended with keeping the darn thing since it is still around. Since I consider this template both controversial and politicizing, I've stopped sorting Moldovan material. Cheers. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 15:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know. I actually thought the vote was to delete or upmerge the Ossetians as well. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 10:05, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Btw, iff you resubmit this one to SFD, just be aware that all hell will probably break out again. I haven't forgot Mikka's accusations against me back then, so given the relationship some Russian editors have with the Poles, I'd be surprised if my name isn't on somebody's list, probably in an even worse category since I'm not even a "local". I also noted a fierce debate on Meta about closing the mo.wiki and it pretty much speaks for itself. However, I still believe it is wrong to give the impression - stubwise or otherwise - that this entity is in any way recognized. A nation is an entity recognized as independent by the rest of the world (or at least a significant portion of it). That's my take on it anyway. Just be aware that the Moldovan mess shares some properties with a Bosnian minefield. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 10:23, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandal

Hey dude,

I don't know how to block people for whatever amount of time but this contrib User:Robertbudapest vandalised the Witi Ihimaera article. Sorry to be a pest. RIANZ 19:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You might wish to check out Machine Elf as well. Seems to be the only other contribution of this editor. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 20:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Machine Elf was a cut and paste copy of the existing Wikipedia article Machine elf. I've deleted it. I've also warned Robertbudapest for his edits to Witi Ihimaera.-gadfium 20:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks G - Sunday evenings aren't a good time to find me online! Grutness...wha? 04:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Email

Your email is not activated... Could you drop me a quick email? <address> Thanks - crz crztalk 04:31, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Odd - it should be. Sure (removing your address to reduce spam). Grutness...wha? 04:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good... Will let you know when it's up. - crz crztalk 00:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

SfD

Dear Grutness, Sorry for my late response.Thanks for your comments in my talk page. Plese see my comments here Regards MustTC 08:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

apologies on Swan River (Montana)

Hi Grutness, I am Mumun. Nice to meet you. I must apologize because I flagged an article for speedy deletion too quickly when I was offline. I realized too late that Swan River (Montana) had been vandalized. I am embarrassed to admit that I didn't understand the revert explanation on the help page and so I was/am reluctant to try it myself. Mumun 21:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

replied.

re: westlea in seaham westlea is definately an estate situated in the west of seaham- i know this because i live there! hope this has clarified things kelly mcghin

Thanks for that Grutness...wha?

Thanks...wha?

I wasn't going to send thank-you cards, but the emotional impact of hitting WP:100 (and doing so unanimously!) changed my mind. So I appreciate your confidence in me at RFA (especially from someone of your WikiCaliber), and hope you'll let me know if I can do anything for you in the future. Cheers! -- nae'blis 23:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's a problem with your editor

Hi! It looks like you're using an external text editor that doesn't understand non-ASCII characters. Take a look at this diff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=May_30&diff=prev&oldid=90834579

In the version you edited, all non-English characters got mangled. I went ahead and reverted to the most recent unvandalized version, so the article is fine now, but you should look at using a different editor. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 04:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, after I noticed the problem and sent you the note, I noticed that you'd already picked up on it yourself. I have a PowerBook G4, but I rarely edit Wikipedia from it; most of my editing is using FireFox on a Windows box. That's a weird bug...does it affect all browsers on OS X? -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 04:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wait, you said OS X 10.2. I guess that might explain why I haven't seen it...I'm on the current version of 10.4. You can't upgrade? -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 04:55, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's a sensible plan; when you get a shiny new Intel Core2 Duo Mac, you'll get Leopard and iLife 2007 for free. (I'd love to get one myself, just can't justify the money.) -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 05:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re; Geography stub

You know, I didn't even think to try geo-stub. I just tried geography-stub first and it worked, so I just used that. Thanks for lettign me know though, didn't know those were the same. Learned something new. --Wizardman 00:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bangweulu Block

Hi there,

I was just wondering: why did you un-geo this? it fits much better in the Africa-geo-stub then Africa-stub.--Thomas.macmillan 19:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Apology

I apologise for the mistake, i totally missed the context, sorry Widders 18:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

RfA Thanks

I don't like spamming pages, but I thought I'd give a little note to my co-nominators. User:Amalas/RfA Thanks. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 14:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

WikiThanks
WikiThanks

Thank you so much for your very thorough explanation regarding instruction creep. I wasn't doing a very good job of explaining and I am extremely grateful that someone else stepped in to help. Have a great day and happy editing! ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 23:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC) [reply]

Kiwi template

Hey, I've just made this new Kiwi template, feel free to include it on your userpage: Template:User kiwi. -- SilvaStorm

admin

Thanks Grutness, I’m pleasantly surprised, that you would consider nominating me. Yes, I will accept.

On another note, in regards to the new “Waikato-geo-stub” that I noticed you have just put on the Taupo article, unfortunately Taupo is in a bit of a Catch 22. In the Phone book, on Trademe etc, Taupo is in the Bay of Plenty area; however Taupo is under the Environment Waikato Regional Council Brian | (Talk) 00:28, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gosh, I never realised just quite how bad RfA has on on wiki now :) Brian | (Talk) 07:23, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Houston peer review

The Houston, Texas article is currently being peer reviewed. Your advice on how to improve the article is appreciated. Thank you for your assistance. Postoak 05:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

{{deletedpage}}

I have changed {{deletedpage}} to use m:parser functions, so that, when used on a category or template page, it will display like {{Deletedstubpage}}. Try it out, if you have any wording suggestions, let me know and I will implement them. Happy editing! Prodego talk 00:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NSW geo stubs

Left a note with a link on WP:WSS/P about how NSW is split into 14 regions that have some degree of government recognition. Might prove more useful than a Lake Mackery stub. Caerwine Caer’s whines 07:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that - I've commented there. Grutness...wha? 09:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ceyockey RfA

Thanks for your support in my RfA. It's been a long time since I've dropped by stub city, but the time I spent there was definitely part of the learning curve leading to this. I think it was better to wait the almost two yearsf ... there's enough complexity around here and communicating in this environment is difficult enough that even after that long, I'm still making missteps; the horrors that would have been wrought had I been able to open the broom closet after only 6 months here *shudder*. Regards --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Make benefit

Hi. I agree with your opposal on the BJAODN title page, but I made an alternate title that you might want to support. Also, if you do a text search for "make benefit" you'll see that you suggestion has been made allready so you can support it. --GunnarRene 00:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that - I'll take a look. Grutness...wha?


History of Fatah/Hamas tensions

Ok then chears, i will try 2 fill some of it in over the weekend. But u are more than welcome to fill bits in, as to be honest i know jack all on the subject, but i just thought that it was kinda important. I will try 2 fill in the basics for each month, then hopefully other editors will add more detail. --Boris Johnson VC 08:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Breaking Unicode in Cruise control

This edit broke a number of en dashes and, more importantly, the lang-interwiki links; I assume you're using a broken editor? (If so, you might want to get it fixed – your contributions certainly are valued, but it's not much fun to have to clean up after people.) I'll let you fix it, assuming you're able to; otherwise, tell me and I'll fix it. --EdC 01:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Every now and again I complain about the glitches with Mac OS 10.2 on the VP and I'm told it's fixed or about to be. One of these days it actually will be >:( Grutness...wha?
I hope so too! Thanks! EdC 09:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

template:Stub-group

Thanks, that's a fine outcome, and, for me, pleasingly efficiently arrived at. I place or refine or reposition a lot of stub tags, but i think i've never templatized anything stub-taggish before. (And edited stub templates only in a short flurry within what seems to have ultimately been a successful campaign against "you can help [Wikiproject-name not focused specifically on stubs]" stub-tags, which i think i recall calling "Wiki-Project spam".) So i'll probably completely forget how to find the project you mention, but probably also never again cause any inconvenience by my ignorance of that project. Thanks for your attention to a WP area where i'm really glad that others are willing to labor what must be a great deal.
--Jerzy•t 16:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_ _ Well, i'm not sure i've ever read WP:CSD#Templates, and the Speedy process works well enuf not to. IMO the tag scheme does a excellent job of making it feasible for most of us to contribute very lightly (viewed individually), but hopefully contribute (collectively) a crucially well distributed "peripheral nervous system". And it may well require tough-minded decisions by specialists for realizing the goals.
_ _ But your note is timely re my ruminations during leaf-raking. I haven't satisfied myself that the "nightmares" wouldn't have been relieved by tuning up the automated tools i presume to have been involved, to take the template's use into acct. And it seems to me that a similar template could probably realize the same benefits without interfering with your work. It would need to
  1. insist as forcefully as {{Prod}} does on being subst'ed instead of transcluded (so your tools won't see the difference from unmediated tags), and
  2. reconstruct the markup that generated it as text inside a cmt (much as {{test}} does -- so that subsequent random manual stub-tag refiners have the option of tuning up the arguments of the template, rather than manually editing in full replacement or additional tags).
_ _ (BTW, while i'm not interested in implementation beyond stating this idea, i have to tell you that i have been progressively discouraged from trying to refine more than i can do from memory, by the awkwardness of finding out what the "children" of stub templates are, which i think involves using the Cat lks that appear only at bottom of the rendered page (rather than in the preview rendering above the edit pane, or via the pop-up tools wielded within the edit page) ... and something else, cumbersome feeling, that i've probably tried to forget? Anyway, perhaps the "you were supposed to use subst, dummy" text could be followed by category-sensitive info on possible more specific stub-tags...?)
_ _ But unless i've said something confusing but tantalizing, and worth your asking me for clarification, i'm back to happily leaving all these issues to the long-suffering Project members. Thanks again!
--Jerzy•t 23:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

_ _ Perhaps i was vague, perhaps i'm misinformed.
_ _ I use meta-Tls for LoPbN and, i've casually gotten the following impression:

  • the page that transcludes the meta-Tl
  • the meta-Tl, and
  • the Tl transcluded by the meta-Tl,

are all shown as lk'g the pg that is lk'd by the Tl that the meta-Tl transcludes. Thus i assumed the objection to using {{Stub group}} would have to do with not finding the markup for transcluding the stub tags in the stub's markup. (Ah! But perhaps the what-lks-here pg fails to list the stub tags, bcz their lks appear only in the rendering of the stub pg, and not in the markup of either that pg or the Stub group tl? Bad implementation decision, IMO, but not unthinkable.)
_ _ Presumably distinct from that, you raise an issue of the effect of subst'n on what-lks-here. Was it not clear that i was talking abt subst'ing a revised {{Stub group}} (which in turn would make only transclusions of the various stub templates invoked thru it)? My assumption is that this would (harmlessly) keep Stub group from being listed as lk'g to the stub-tag tl, and as being lk'd by the stub-pg, but not be problematic since it is only the titles of the stub-tag tl's that you should be interested in harvesting. To be explicit, i was not contemplating that the changes to the markup of {{Stub group}} would include any subst'n of stub-tags by it. Rather, it would insist that editors subst rather than transclude {{Stub group}}, which presumably would eliminate (since the transclusion of {{Stub group}} would place markup for transclusion of the stub-tag templates in the stub-pg's markup) any problem with the stub article not being recognized as lking to the stub tags. Hmm. Unless their placement inside parser-function conditionals interferes.
_ _ (I may be abusing your attention by now.)
--Jerzy•t 06:23, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, thanks for your patience, and i am also at the limits of my knowledge. I know there was concern that meta-templates simply be avoided, but i think that was either ill-founded or was solved by caching of frequently used ones. And i think Subst'g a meta-tl involves only the same load as a one time use of the meta-tl (since it turns into meta-tl-free markup) and the usual load of the templates whose markup it leaves in the markup of the pg it's subst'd into. I probably will be getting a little better informed and a little more confident in the next months, since i am doing a lot more with Tls for LoPbN than before, so this is only timely at the moment bcz of your informing me abt the prior concern. If you notice someone in the Stub-sorting WProj who seems better informed than we two, you might ask if they want to be put together with me; if that doesn't happen, perhaps i'll get less heavily loaded with LoPbN after a while, and be prepared to take the initiative on this there myself. (My interest was two-fold: i rewrote a {{skatingbio-stub}} call, i guess, bypassing the rdr w/ {{skating-bio-stub}}, and noticed that the br tag was the clean solution to bad spacing of tags below article content. But gotta run now.)
--Jerzy•t 08:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Medieval armour stub

Thanks for the note on my talk page. I am not familiar with the pertinent policies governing firm restrictions (particularly regarding the minimum article limit you listed), and I would ask you to direct me to them before I comment. It is my opinion that the category meets the spirit of stub sorting. Thanks. --Eyrian 01:04, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Feliz Navidad

Tony the Marine

O.K., so maybe you don't believe in Santa, but I still want to wish you and your loved ones a "Happy Holidays" and all of the happiness in the world and the best new year ever. Your friend, Tony the Marine 23:55, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Merry Christmas

Darwinek wishes you a Merry Christmas!

Hi Jimmy! I just want to say Merry Christmas to you! Have a nice holiday time. - Darwinek 19:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And merry Christmas to you too (and to all visitors to this page). One thing though - James or Jamie, not Jimmy (that's my cousin. And my granddad was Jim, and my uncle was Jay, and my cousin's son is Hamish, and...) Grutness...wha? 22:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Indian New Zealanders

Thanks for the help and articles.Bakaman 03:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings

Season's greetings Grutness. Hope all is well with you and yours.Kahuroa 20:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Māori wiki

Just a note regarding the Māori model pages created by Robin Patterson which I saw links to from your talk page on mi - the model pages are no longer available on the Māori Wikipedia because they were full of grammatical errors and the like. (Old versions are still linked from his English-Wikipedia user page tho, being old and uncorrected they are even worse regarding grammar etc.) Their use just creates too much work for the very few Māori speakers who use the site, and they also resulted in one-line stubs for the most part Kahuroa 20:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Snail Articles and Stubs

Thanks fot helping me redirect, sorry I didn't know that there was a molusc stubs. While 180 snails stubs were cover many still needs attention most which are species of the Cone Snail pages. ShadowKinght 01:19, 25 December 2006 (UTC) Talk?[reply]

County Route locator templates

I didn't even see the part that said "stub". What would you recommend so far as fixing it? Just removing that ID attribute, or something more drastic? I was just using a template that looked like what I was going for. -Branddobbe 11:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. I think the best thing to do would be to leave the new boxes the way they are (but take out the "stub" ID, because they fulfill different purposes from the road infobox; however, I'd also like to put in a road infobox in the respective articles as well. I'll get on it shortly. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. -Branddobbe 01:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proposing renaming Category:Multi-sport events to Category:Multisport

Thanks for bringing my mistakes to my attention, I've replied both on my talk page and on stub sorting page. Enjoy the rest of the christmas / new years break Mathmo Talk 12:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My Request for Adminship

Grutness

Thanks for your support on my successful Request for Adminship (final result 78 Support /0 Oppose / 1 Neutral) I have now been entrusted with the mop, bucket and keys. I will be slowly acclimating myself to my new tools over the next months. I am humbled by your kind support and would certainly welcome any feedback on my actions. Please do not hesitate to contact me. Once again, many thanks and happy new year! All the best, Asteriontalk 15:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stub categorization

I was creating a couple of literature articles didnt find any stub category to fit them. So, created them. I'm not aware of the stub creation process, so if there is one kindly fit these in. Or if there is any existing stub category that applies to Indian/Tamil literature related articles, kindly let me know. 06:13, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Overturn

What can I do to overturn the decision made in this nomination? Many government people are simply not politicians, given Hong Kong's long history as a British colony and most political offices were not elected until relative recently. Former governors were, for example, not politicians. Top-tier government officials in the colonial days and before the 2002 reform were not politicians either. The original structure was carefully set up to cater different people, and many articles are still left untagged. The SFD decision was obviously made with no input from editors who're familar with the situation. — Instantnood 21:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mind elaborate a bit on in what way was the original structure little ambiguous and ill-defined? The broader category was intended for anybody who're involved in politics yet aren't politicians. IMHO that structure was fine, yet of course there's always room for improvements. — Instantnood 23:35, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. I didn't come up with such problem when I tag the articles of these people with the correct stub types. Happy new year, by the way. :-D — Instantnood 23:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year

(Feliz Año Nuevo)


Happy New Year from Tony the Marine 02:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC) [reply]

I wish you and your loved ones all the happiness in the world this coming year.

Friendly Chat

I went to your user page and clicked on your autobio. Amazing, I didn't know that I had such a talented person as you for a friend in Wiki. Today, I recieved an e-mail where this magazine, for which I sometimes write for and which is recieved in the Library of Congress, published my bio. I want to share it with you. here:

Take care, Tony the Marine 07:59, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re-Illinois geo-stubs

I will do that from now on. When I was away from the PC, someone stubbed it with that plain one, so I started doing it for the rest. Thanks for the info.--Kranar drogin 08:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Australia, oztralia, osstriliea

Greetings fellow cafe wha? matey - happy all the bits and seasons to you! Just by chance over in nz's western colony we have started three new state based project - the biggest, and the two smallest - of which the most developed - west oz and tas (just a mere conversion of the hobart one) - all helped by our two prject whizbangos - longhair and cyberjunkie without whom etc - (I had done australian military history project jump in the water a bit earlier) - so it looks like your wss thingo will need to be au fait with the fact that all these projects are legit and above the water so to speak. Any clues on the official stub creation project thingo would be most appreciated at WP WA, WP TAS WP VIC and WP AMH - as we in the western colony are sometimes slow on these thingos :) SatuSuro 23:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BTW him- below - he's said his bit I see - he's ok! SatuSuro 23:21, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Translation, please! Grutness...wha? 23:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Translation: Happy new year. For your esteemed information - there are some recent projects created in Australia just recently. - WikiProject Victoria (least developed), WikiProject Tasmania, WikiProject Western Australia, WikiProject Australian Maritime History - all legit and watched over by admins who are 'minders' of the umbrella project WikiProject Australia - perhaps that Project's talk page is the most appropriate location for relating the info . Best wishes. Hope thats clearer! SatuSuro 23:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, my apologies for flippancy - best of luck with the titanic-, we have grass buckets in australia - not much help SatuSuro 23:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The question is should I put a reminder at the australian or the state projects re this issue - or would you like to? SatuSuro 01:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
okely dokeley I'll get em on the dont run dont walk - pages and give em da news!

Translation: I'll do it SatuSuro 01:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WesternAustralia-stub

Hi - it has come to our notice that you have recently created a new stub type. As it clearly states at WP:STUB, at the top of most stub categories, on the template page for new Wikiprojects and in many other places on Wikipedia, new stub types should be proposed prior to creation at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals, in order to check whether the new stub type is already covered by existing stub types, whether it is named according to stub naming guidelines, whether it reaches the standard threshold for creation of a new stub type, whether it crosses existing stub type hierarchies, and whether better use could be made of a WikiProject-specific talk page template.

In the case of your new stub type, it appears to be well-formed and well populated, and will almost certainly be kept rather than being deleted, but it would have been very useful if you had passed it by the people who actually deal with stubs in general first! Your new stub type is currently listed at WP:WSS/D - please feel free to make any comments there about the new stub type. Grutness...wha? 23:01, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Grutness,
Yes, I'm aware of the various exhortations for me to ask permission before creating new stubs. No doubt you're aware that there are still a few of us around who consider this "rule" to be an unacceptable imposition on the Wiki philosophy. It is a rule that I have every intention of ignoring, as I am very strongly opposed to having to ask a WikiProject's permission before creating a page.
Rest assured that I don't create stubs very often, and when I do whey are invariably sensible, so my refusal to sign on oughtn't cause you any difficulties going forward.
See you round.
Hesperian 23:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see a lot of foolishness on Wikipedia. Most of it is low impact. I agree that the application of foolishness to stub creation would have a larger than desirable impact, although I think that impact has been rather exaggerated by WP:STUB. I think the goals of WP:STUB are reasonable, even laudable, but I don't much like the way they go about doing things. To my mind, their structure and methods are unnecessarily overbearing and authoritarian. I think Wikipedia would continue to get along just fine if WP:STUB revised its pushy "ask permission first" policy down to a friendly "please let us know if you create a stub" policy. Other WikiProjects manage to promulgate and enforce conventions without resorting to the kind of overbearing methods that WP:STUB have adopted.

Regarding your reply, I rather feel as though you latched onto my decision to link the word "ignoring" to WP:IAR, and addressed that to the exclusion of everything else. I'm curious as to how you would have responded if I had not linked that one word.

Hesperian 00:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding your "toned down - my apologies" edit summary, apology accepted and unnecessary. I should add that I have no beef with any WP:STUB member, and certainly not with you, who I've seen doing good work around here for a long time. This is merely a friendly exchange of opposing views, right? Hesperian 00:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinates

Hi - please, if you add infoboxes for stadia (like Carisbrook and Westpac stadium) leave the coordinates at the top of the page - even if they're also in the infobox, it's useful to have all articles with coordinates in the same place. Grutness...wha? 05:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I assume that you're familiar with this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Coor_title_dms You are correct that coordinates should be in the same place, and that place should be infoboxs if they exist. As with Carisbrook and the current Wikipedia promotion the top of the page is a mess with 2 coordinates and a dismiss text overlaying each other. (You didn't pay attention to the page as someone else had added the title coords back by using 'at' in the infobox coords, hence the double-up) I see that you're an administrator, so please quell the debate on the above talk page and then we can have a definitive standard. Until then I don't think overlaying text keeps with the professional standards Wikipedia tries to achieve, when there's a perfectly suitable infobox with the info. Nosilleg 10:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, no, I wasn't aware of that p;age at all. I was aware, however, of the large flurry of reversions of your edits going on on quite a few of the stadium articles on my watchlist. Seems that the debate on that page is not only largely unknown, but the suggestion of moving the coordinates into infoboxes is also fairly unpopular! Grutness...wha? 11:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't call 2 people a flurry or fairly unpopular. I've reverted their edits and included the same commit message I did with yours, so hopefully they'll read that page and if they still have concerns, read/comment on this. Nosilleg 14:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First Stub

I have created my first stub (Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals#Amusement_park_stubs. Is there anything else to do. I.e., am I responsible for populating it? TonyTheTiger 19:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

I'll create more NZ art and culture articles, but I tend to be sporadic and concentrate on things of interest to me, and need to focus on work in real life, so no promises! I'm only really creating stubs at the moment, as there are people who know far more than I ever will about these subjects, and they can improve them of course. Mostlyharmless 05:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

{{SaintPetersburg-stub}}

I have sorted all the stubs in Category:Saint Petersburg by marking them with {{SaintPetersburg-stub}}. You have doubted about their number, but there are 66 of them. Geevee (talk|contribs) 09:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your consideration

Thank you for the consideration you gave to my RfA. To be chosen as an administrator requires a high level of confidence by a broad section of the community. Although I received a great deal of support, at this time I do not hold the level of confidence required, and the RfA did not pass. Yours was one of the neutral votes, and raised concerns. I am more than willing to discuss those concerns with you if you are interested. Please let me know. Sincerely, --BostonMA talk 13:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

{{Cluj-stub}} / Category:Cluj-Napoca stubs

It's closing time for this on SFD and I was wondering if you had any ideas as to what to do with it. Basically, there's you at a "strong delete" and the creator at a "keep." I would normally side with the "strong delete", but now there's 80-some articles, and that's not something to easily overlook. Should I go ahead and re-stub them all with something else or just keep this? Any thoughts? ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 15:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

{{Dharmic-Religion-stub}} / Category:Dharmic Religion stubs

One more question for you. What to do with this. Category:Dharmic religions seems to be a parent for all of Category:Hinduism, Category:Buddhism, Category:Sikhism, etc. So, it might seem like a decent parent for Category:Hinduism stubs, Category:Buddhism stubs, Category:Sikhism stubs, etc. However, they've only managed to populate it up to 38 articles (which is a miracle in and of itself considering Category:Dharmic religions only has 9 articles). I'm hesitant just to delete this because I know there will be an onslaught of religious fervor from both sides if the stubs are mixed together or mis-sorted. Any help would be greatly appreciated. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 15:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Canada Org Stubs

My apologies, it was not my intention to create more work, quite the opposite. I just have little faith in the policy making procedure of Wikipedia, and thus the policies/guidelines/whatever -- it seems arbitrary, chaotic and open to instant interpretation.

I'm curious what was wrong with the stub I made, I just copy and pasted from another geographic org stub; I saw that there were over 11 pages of general org stubs and I figured that was a good place to jump in.

Is there a way to more easily count the stubs in a specific category, btw? It would assist in that proposals section, which still doesn't make alot of sense to be to be honest with you unless the person making the stub has no experience with stubs or the stub doesn't have a similiar precdent for existence and would be deleted. Just H 18:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, i'll ask Alai. Just H 03:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OFFLINE

James (i.e., Grutness) is likely to be largely offline forr the next few ddays, owing to an exploded chip in his computer. No hard drive damage, but no connection to the screen! I'm currently using a borrowed laptop, and probably won't be able to edit much for a while.Grutness...wha? 02:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other stubs

I had a bit of a think about our previous discussion. Before our chat I didn't know that WP:STUB was endeavouring to track all stubs in existence. I still don't like the idea of having to ask permission to create a stub, but in future I will at least let the project know of my intentions/actions, so you can maintain your lists. In that spirit I thought I should mention the two other stubs that I am guilty of creating:

  1. I created {{Proteaceae-stub}} and Category:Proteaceae stubs. The category currently has 152 entries, which compares favourably to the other plant family stubs.
  2. I created {{Banksia-stub}} and Category:Banksia stubs on behalf of WP:BANKSIA, a very active WikiProject of which I am a member. It currently contains 61 articles, and has not much potential to grow, as we've only identified about 50 Banksia articles yet to be created. At one point it have about 100 articles, but the trend has been for the population to shrink, as we are improving our stubs at a greater rate than we create new ones. Seeing as there is no precedent for the creation of plant stubs at genus level, and WP:BANKSIA has the capacity to monitor our stubs through the talk page tag {{WP Banksia|class=Stub...}}, I won't object if WP:STUB sentences it to be cast into the belly of Proteaceae-stub.

Hesperian 05:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll pass that on to WP:WSS/D - thanks... Grutness...wha? 09:51, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BC stubs

Thanks for the advisory and the admonishment. My posts on the SFD aren't meant to be overbearing; other Wikipedians familiar with me know I'm kinda prolix/voluble - I just type real fast and usually have forty different things to say that more or less have to do with the topic at hand ;-) I just wrote up a fair explanation on my talk page why any subdivisions of BC are going to be difficult; it's easier (for us, if not for Wiki) to subdivide things by category of object; I won't go on as I have enough already on the SFD and the talkpage. I'll propose certain stub ideas - the poli-stub, and a gov-stub (?) for sure, and I had others in mind. I notice you didn't SFD the mountains-stub...was that an oversight? I have good reason why it's needed, as explained on the SFD, and also in the context given on my talk page; mountains have regions called mountain ranges; towns and rivers can't be classified that way; and mountains can't be classified by lowlander boundaries as they quite often then would have to be in two regions (being defining parameters or those regions, being ridge-summits and all...); which is why anything along the Continental Divide south of about 54 degrees latitude is in both BC and Alberta categories (there's currently a Category:Mountains of British Columbia, and a Category:Mountain ranges of Canada, which includes the BC cat; most ranges in Canada are in either BC or Alberta (with the huge bulk of them in BC, overwhelmingly) plus a few large ones in the Yukon and NWT, and a handful in Quebec and Newfoundland and Labrador; IMO there should be Category:Mountain ranges of Alberta and Category:Mountain ranges of Yukon as well as mountain cats for same; I know that's not your area but it's a similar/related issue, and the idea of mountain stubs is really relevant if you live in place where "there are more mountains than people" (as with BC). Anyway, BC has something like 5,000 named peaks, or more....(I know, as I was the senior geographer for the Canadian Mountain Encyclopedia for three years and either created or organized most of their entries....). Best place to reply is probably my talkpage I guess....Skookum1 10:13, 6 January 2007 (UTC) {Replied on Skookum1's talk page Grutness...wha? 10:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TRNC stub

Ok, but there is no stub to regroup all TRNC related stubs together... I am sorry, but this is about the TRNC as a political entity, whether it is recognized or not. There is no political undertone. Cyprus stub utilizes the flag of its opposing state, so there is not much logic to use it for topics concerning TRNC like "politics of TRNC". The problem is, Cyprus-stub is not a geographical stub, it uses the Republic of Cyprus flag, which means that it is a political stub, right? If it used the geographical map of Cyprus, then there wouldn't be a problem. However, I didn't know about the proposing procedure. But there is still a problem with utilizing the Cyprus stub. So, what is the solution? Baristarim 22:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Grutness (and Hi again Baristarim).
The {{Cyprus-stub}} has been messed up several times. I remember trying to switch to the NASA map of the island a few times, but everytime this was done, the image had been reverted to the flag when I logged on the next day. Mairi didn't have better luck either. Most of these reverts came from the same anon account. When I went through some Cypriot material and replaced the ROC flag with an updated graphic, I did the same here but that was because I wanted to get rid of a poor-quality image. I hope you'll have better luck with this template than me, but we'll have to see. Cheers. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I am kinda new in the Cyprus/TRNC territory in Wikipedia, and the only thing that bugged me was the flag issue. If it is a map, then I will have absolutely no problems. My only suggestion for a TRNC stub to group TRNC stubs was because I had the impression that Cyprus-stub was used to group Republic of Cyprus stubs. I also saw Valentinian's comments above, and I understood what the problem was. I will also try to keep an eye on it and will try to do my best. There are still things I am kind of discovering in Wikipedia, so I wasn't aware of the stub procedure. But I definitely agree with what you said about other non-recognized state stubs. Cheers! Baristarim 23:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Given the nature of this template, it should probably have been done long ago. Now you know whay I never proposed a -bio stub for the island, although it seems clearly viable. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Back to square one it seems. Suggestions? Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 13:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the stub image. I hope this solution will work, but I wouldn't bet money on it. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 17:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It went as I feared. Oh, btw, both of us have now officially been labelled as pro-Turks [1]. Funny, I didn't know that myself. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 22:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, unless he is a wikipedian there won't be much of a problem. But I did notice that this user has sent out messages written in Greek to quite a few Greek Wikipedians. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 09:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

{{Jamaica-footy-bio-stub}}

Hello Grutness. I don't expect stubsorters to do *anything*, as I don't have a problem populating the stub category myself. And as you pointed out yourself, my created stub is fine. I can see a Stub WikiProject as a good way to enforce common standards, but please don't be a police force with a monopoly of action. Especially when the task performed is standard (i.e. this Jamaica category), by people who know what they're doing (I was one of those who made the first sub-stub categories in the European football biographies category, and have made edits to clarify flawed football biography categories). I just don't see why I should use my leisure time go through internet bureaucracy, with a band of (more or less) random people posing as judges, to make a category which is sound anyways. Poulsen 07:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have placed these replies in order of your corresponding paragraphs on my talk page.
  1. Please don't equal "expect" to "want". I want people to do what they want, that is the idea of Wikipedia. And if a consensus is reached to revert what I have done, then so be it. But - it was you who used the word "expect", and I point out that I don't "expect" people to do anything on Wikipedia, simply because I have no place doing so, and if I want something done I do it myself. About making it available to others, I don't see how the Stub Project have made, fore example, the {{DRCongo-footy-bio-stub}} noticed in any way (see #2)? Which specifics should I have done to make the stub cats more noticed?
  2. Right, "appears" it is, my apologies. Take the examples of {{DRCongo-footy-bio-stub}} and {{SouthAfrica-footy-bio-stub}}. They were made, by a member of the Stub project, only as a stub template, without a specific category, and was only applied to few stub articles within the DR Congolese and South African footballers category. It might have been because they were thought to be too small in this discussion, but a week later, I populated South Africa with more than 80 stubs. Also, the {{Ghana-footy-bio-stub}} and {{Nigeria-footy-bio-stub}} weren't fully applied in their repsective footballer categories. The need for checking goes both ways, and I don't see why the project should have a monopoly in creating new stubs, when both you and I can make mistakes/bad research. This is Wikipedia, nothing is perfect - why not go about our business, and I can correct your mistakes (as in my examples) and you can correct mine when and if you find them.
  3. I don't see you as wanting people to go away. But you clearly want to be in control with your policy and contacting me now, right? Just contacting me to say that I appearently did a good thing, but that I forgot to ask you, and should do so in the future, is controlling/policing. As for the Stub Project catching mistakes, see #2.
  4. As was the case in #2, I took the time myself to finish a job which wasn't properly done by the Stub Project at first hand. The Stub Project isn't the best experts anywhere, they are the best experts who choose to join that specific project.
I can see your point that the project is good at structuring things and has a higher probability of catching mistakes than the casual user, but when the structure is in place, please let the editors edit - isn't that what "Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia that anyone can edit" means?
My point is, that when I stay within the consensus rules for stubs and create quality work, then it is a waste of time to wait for the bureaucracy to take its time, just so the stub project can say: We think it is okay. And it is especially a waste of time to tell people who did no wrong, that they were wrong in not consulting a Wikiproject before editing, just because you say so. I will (and have) use(d) the notability/usefulnes guidelines when making new stub categories, but as I see it, the Stub Project should solve queries and make structures, not hinder free editing.
I have listed the most obvious candidates for stub creation at the top of User talk:Poulsen/notes, where especially Ukraine and Slovakia are high on the list. If the Stub Project goes ahead and does them fine, but else I'll do them when I get around to it. Poulsen 10:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In "hindering free editing", I mean you put up a level or two of bureaucracy (controlled by more or less qualified people) between the user who gets an idea, and the work actually being done. Yes, it is less work when things aren't screwed up and only has to be done once, but as I have shown you, the Stub Project isn't a guarantee for that. The annoyance is a factor, but if your goal is to avoid annoyance, then Wikipedia shouldn't be open to all in the first place.. It is an interesting thought that I could "hinder the progress of Wikipedia" in any way, but I really doubt it.
First off, as you can see, I didn't include the Soviet cat in the "most likely" category of Ukraine and Slovakia, even though it has more articles than Ukraine. That is, I wasn't completely numb to the problem, but that is of little consequence now. Nevertheless; Why is it controversial to have a category of stubs of an established category, when the established category is seemingly uncontroversial in itself? Especially when the Soviet footballers category is in the main footballer catalogue (and not, say, as a subcat in the Russian footballers category). And why does it make sense to have a Korean stub category but not a Soviet stub category? Poulsen 12:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Talking about time waste, you're not obliged to answer me in any way. Don't contact me and then complain about me arguing my stance. If I'm "hindering the progress of Wikipedia" with my answers, then what are you doing with your initial contact? You're the only one who mentioned it at discoveries, taking three minutes to realise it was okay, and if I had taken it through proposals, having to wait for a few people to comment, that wouldn't have been more of a waste than three minutes? It isn't a to-do list, it's notes.. I'm not planing on crating all those footballer articles in there either, but you can read all you want into it, and have. The Stub Project is user-made, right? So it is users who have taken it upon themselves to be in control. That is, it has nothing to do with the starting point of Wikipedia, the freedom, but with the community monopolising various functions, and making controlling instances as an afterthought. About you creating the Slovakia and Ukraine stubs, it will be interesting to see how well you do, compared to the examples I've shown you, which you have chosen not to comment on. Just seeing that you won't give Slovakia their own category, even though I stopped counting stubs in its footballer category when I reached 60, shows that you could do with some actual research before making new stubs. Poulsen 10:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Cocktails

Hello. As a person interested in the WikiProject Cocktails, you may be interested to know that a name change is being considered for the WikiProject from Cocktails to Mixed Drinks. Please add your opinions to the discussion and vote. Also, check out the recent changes to the WikiProject area. Consider becoming an active Participant.

On a more personal note, I wanted to thank you for all your suggestions and helpful criticism provided during the template/category debacle I helped create. I'd appreciate it if you could take a glance through the rest of the WikiProject area and see if there is anything else that should be changed. I'd rather that we work together to fix whatever might be wrong informally, rather than go through the stress of any more formal actions. I really want to do things the right way, but even after 1600+ edits, there is still always more to learn. Thanks again! --Willscrlt 09:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for helping out with all the Cats. I didn't take a close look at what happens with the SUBST stuff. And thanks for the cool idea about all the flags on the user page. Problem, though: I can't get them all to display. Any ideas? Thanks. Cbdorsett 12:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

UK MPs

Hi Grutness

Your proposal at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007_January_10#UK_MPs looks like a good idea at first glance, but as the category creator I would like to point out that thse very terse names were created after a lot of discussion and a failed attempt at using longer names. May I ask you to reconsider your proposal? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:55, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As pointed out in the cfr, the abbreviations are confusing - also it's usual practice not to abbreviate category names, irrespective of the length the names become. Grutness...wha?

Don't look like a vandal. Please provide an edit summary when you edit.

When editing an article on Wikipedia there is a small field labeled "Edit summary" under the main edit-box. It looks like this:

Edit summary text box

The text written here will appear on the Recent changes page, in the page revision history, on the diff page, and in the watchlists of users who are watching that article. See m:Help:Edit summary for full information on this feature.

Filling in the edit summary field greatly helps your fellow contributors in understanding what you changed, so please always fill in the edit summary field, especially for big edits or when you are making subtle but important changes, like changing dates or numbers. Thank you. Will (Talk - contribs) 00:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WTF??? Grutness...wha?

There was a page, not sure where, that you made 5 edits. None had edit summaries. I saw no evidence you used summaries at all. I had to load the diffs for each to ensure you weren't a vandal. That took time. Without the edit summaries, I assume the worse. With them, I tend to skip edits.

I should also note that Help:Edit summary is a guideline according to Help:Edit summary#Recommendations. Will (Talk - contribs) 01:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can tell admins apart from non-admins by the user name? I didn't know that. I guess you learn something new every day. My apologies. Perhaps you could put "Admin" in each edit summary. Will (Talk - contribs) 01:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi James

Yes, you do indeed know me - it's Paul Scoones. In fact it's partly through looking at some of the work you've done here that's inspired me to get involved! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blad3runn3r (talk • contribs) 00:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Double re-directs!!

Oops. I got distracted in the middle of series of edits (for almost an hour), and didn't manage to clean that afterwards.... You get that I guess :) Cheers, --Limegreen 04:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Geo-stubs

Grutness wrote
Hi Gurch - good to see you adding stubs to articles. Can I ask one favour though? Almost every country in the world now has its own separate geo-stub in the form CountryName-geo-stub (e.g., Italy-geo-stub, SriLanka-geo-stub). If you can add the country where possible when you stub, it'll save a bit more work further down the line. Cheers, and keep up the good work :) Grutness...wha? 05:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, laziness on my part. I'll try and use slightly more specific tags – Gurch 05:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Any help is still good work, even if it's just the geo-stub tag. I just wasn't sure whether you knew about the country tags. Grutness...wha? 05:13, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've done stub-sorting before, but not since 2005, so I guess I'm out of practise. I knew about the tags though (or at least the ones that we had back then). I'm just going through Special:Shortpages and making sure everything on there is actually useful – Gurch 05:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A deletion discussion in which you voted, that of Template:Catholic-link, is up for deletion review, where the template may be deleted or retained depending upon the review discussion. You are welcome to comment and/or vote at Wikipedia:Deletion review#Template:Catholic-link. The key point of this discussion is whether the "default keep by no consensus" result was correct; discussion of the template itself is secondary (but may still be important). — coelacan talk — 04:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tonga

He he :), just watching your contribs. I'm doing my job here, will categorize rest of articles from "Geography" category in a few minutes. - Darwinek 09:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nah :), just looked on your improvement of List of volcanoes of New Zealand (thank you, btw) and saw your new Tonga contributions. ;) - Darwinek 09:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

aviation-terminology-stub

I apolagize if i seem rude or ignorant on the discussion of the new stub type. I will rename and what not tommorow. I am a very type A person, so I apolagize if i seem rude or impatient. I had done the research (not on the prope rnaming convetion) but i checked out, made sure it had good scope and alot of other things. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. While I respect the way it is done, i feel as though the process is more likley to discourage editors less familiar with stubs from getting involved. (just my personal prefernce). I have alot of respect for what you do, somebodys gotta do it, it just frustrates me to no end. Thanks again and for your good work enjoy this nice award

The Editor's Barnstar
I, Chrislk02, award you this editors barstar for your particulary fine work with wikiproject stub sorting and the what nots. Without it, the stub world would be too crazy (even though it does drive me slighlty nuts). Keep up the great work, it is much appreciated. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 01:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yea, i understand why stub proposals are imporant. It makes sense, I respect it as well as my reservations about it! Thanks again for your kind "poking" me in the right direction. Another notch in my belt cant hurt! Thanks again. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 01:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Stub message placement

I've looked, and so far haven't found it documented anywhere. Since you're one of the most savvy Stub people, I figured I'd as you--shouldn't stub messages be located below the visible article text (often the last external link), and _above_ the cats (and probably above large nav footers as well)? That's where I've generally seen them, but recently I've been finding many several lines after the last cat, and bots/AWB putting them there, such as this edit, leaving a bunch of unhelpful white space. Seattlenow 03:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hell-bourg

Hello Grutness. Point noted. Though, to complicate things, if the decision to apply UN areas to Wikipedia is implemented, and Madagascar moves to East Afrika (it appears on both maps, which is what tripped me up), then wouldn't Reunion sort of have to move as well? Cheers, MadMaxDog 05:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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