User talk:Brooke Vibber

Old talk at User talk:Brion VIBBER (archive)

A message for you on Meta

A message on subpages for you on zh:用户对话:Brion VIBBER. --Menchi 16:47 22 May 2003 (UTC)

Response there. --Brion 02:15 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Also, is the Chinese Wikipedia on the new statistics algorithm? It seems strange to have that many edits in Recent Changes and there to only be 182 articles there. --Chuck SMITH

I think Chinese wiki is still on broken comma system. I'll fix it when I get a chance. --Brion 02:15 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Howdy Brion, I noticed on Village Pump that you can merge my pre-User edits in with my current login. I only edited about a dozen articles, but I'd like them to be part of my history. I was the only person using 12.235.65.71. If you could merge them, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! --Dante Alighieri 21:23 23 May 2003 (UTC)

Sure, I'll run that in a bit. --Brion 02:15 25 May 2003 (UTC)

I sure you get fed up with stupid questions/requests, but here is another one. On the "My contributions" Special page, is there any way of showing a running total of edits made and/or new pages created? I have no programming knowledge whatsoever, so if this is either obvious or impossible, just put it down to my ignorance. thanks jimfbleak 10:27 24 May 2003 (UTC)

Hypothetically this could be done, yes. Which reminds me also of the proposed m:User details special page. --Brion 02:15 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Message for you on User talk:Tim Starling -- Tim Starling 04:56 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the article count fix. Any chance to get my beloved SpecialAncientpages and deletion fix online soon? --Eloquence 06:07 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Any way to avoid that "oops, two people rolled the article back negating each other effect"? -- Someone else 06:35 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, yeah, I'll go code that up. You take over here. :) --Brion 06:36 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Hello. I'm trying to update Wikipedia:Most active Wikipedians again, but this time I turned on the "-w" warning message thingy, and I got the following output:

Possible unintended interpolation of @bebbington in string at modified_script line 15.
Illegal hexadecimal digit '-' ignored at modified_script line 50.
Illegal hexadecimal digit '-' ignored at modified_script line 50.
Illegal hexadecimal digit '-' ignored at modified_script line 61.
Illegal hexadecimal digit '-' ignored at modified_script line 61.
Name "main::bebbington" used only once: possible typo at modified_script line 15.
Use of uninitialized value in hash element at modified_script line 51, <CUR> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in hash element at modified_script line 52, <CUR> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in hash element at modified_script line 52, <CUR> line 1.
<table border="1">
Use of uninitialized value in hash element at modified_script line 62, <OLD> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in hash element at modified_script line 63, <OLD> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in addition (+) at modified_script line 63, <OLD> line 1.
<tr><td align="right">1<td>Ram-Man<td align="right">45052

Ands then everything's okay after that. Does this mean everything's gone wrong, or what? -- Oliver P. 16:24 25 May 2003 (UTC)

And another thing... When I add the correspondence "BigFatBuddha" => "º¡º", the number of that user's contributions goes down from 1729 to 1633. Now that shouldn't happen, should it...? Is it anything to do with the strange characters? -- Oliver P. 18:41 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Okay, well, it still does strange things, but I'm going to give up for today, and hope that I will wake tomorrow magically imbued with an understanding of Perl. ;) -- Oliver P. 19:39 25 May 2003 (UTC)

Hi Brion,

It looks like you've got work piled up to the ceiling, but just hoping to get an answer for once. Is there a chance that the Hebrew wiki will be updated anytime soon, or should i just wait very quietly in the corner? :-)

Thanks, -- Aarrrggghhh 09:15 26 May 2003 (UTC)

Regarding the edits: Yes, they are by me. I have been psychologically quite shaken up today, but I still think I'm the same person. But one minus some parts of his bicycle, some glasswork in his kitchen, the glass in his front door and the usual amount of self-confidence, and with a referral for a psychotherapist. Andre Engels 18:16 26 May 2003 (UTC)

I obtain copyright free maps and fair use maps from universities etc. on the Internet as well as scan them in at the local public library who has every historical map that ever existed copyright free and who are not required to provide each library user with a copyright certification certificate. That is one of the reasons why, under the DMCA et al (See Alex 756’s good work) Wikipedia is not obligated to check each photo posted and has no legal liability whatsoever except to remove it when notified by a claiming party. So, my question is why is this particular one being singled out by you? First, I had a sysop revert my very detailed and factual work without reason, now suddenly this inquiry. Coincidence? I too am very concerned about Wikipedia being harmed. I have a list of about 120 photos on Wikipedia that I have doubts about. So, seeing as you are saying I should post each of these on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion, I shall do so ASAP.

I have over 300 maps on my computer. The two I posted on Weikipedia are available in about 50 different formats. Some come from:

http://historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/natmapwestemp843.htm?once=true&

There are hundreds of maps put on the Web by About.com and others and in About.com’s case each map is labeled as follows or similar: "This map is from the Atlas to Freeman's Historical Geography, edited by J.B. Bury, Longmans Green and Co. Third Edition 1903. It is in the public domain and you may download it or print it for any use. Click it to return to the smaller version."

I frequently download these copyright free items, resize them, convert them and label them if necessary. I’m telling you this to save time in the future, but if you wish, I will provide proof each time I post, subject to being advised by the owner, Mr. Wales, that I am an exception to the fixed legal policy and required to do so.

As to the two specific images you refer to, I would like to know why Ms. Kemp, a Wikipedia sysop, contravened your policy and deleted one of them from the Clovis I article? Is there two standards here. One for Ms. Kemp and another for us “obtuse”, “misrepresenters”, and “liars” as she called a contributor to this page?

Image:ClovisDomain.jpg and :Image:843-870 Europe.jpg?

For these two images go to:

http://globegate.utm.edu/french/globegate_mirror/medhist.html

TennesseeBob Peckham Director, The Globe-Gate Project University of Tennessee-Martin

At his website he has these two specific maps you refer to that you will see come from Paul Halsall, Ph.D. history. (You might suggest Ms. Hemp go to this website and learn FACTS about Merovingian History from an expert) - It is part of the Fordham University website to aid researchers. The University of Tennessee links to Fordham University, the Government of France service departments and other education places who in fact put these historical documents on the web and WANT places like Wikipedia to have these maps (assuming that the intellect level is high enough to ensure the written input has narrative based on fact, not personal opinions). Now, Mr. Vibber, I trust this meets with your satisfaction. Would you please inform Ms. Kemp that she should not vandalize pages by deleting peoples maps/photos etc. before following Wikipedia procedure. Perhaps I’m wrong, but don’t they ban people from Wikipedia for deliberate deletions of photos without proper authorization? Maybe you could advise me on this, please. While you are at it, suggest also to Ms. Kemp (and someone called sysop Tannin who reverted my FACTS from the good Professor) not to delete my text additions when I support them with facts that contradict her unfounded opinions. I welcome improvement to my miniscule efforts to contribute, but not vandalism by someone with a personal agenda who asserts baseless opinions on the Internet claims of personal accreditations.

Thank you, I am appreciative of your concern and great diligence in seeing that Wikipedia operates properly and fairly. I hope this meets with your satisfaction, should you have need of any further information, please do not hesitate to ask. Have a lovely day. May the Prophet bless you. Triton

Just a small PS re fair use. I wasn't aware you were a lawyer. As I said, Wikipedia has no obligation to verify photos/maps posted. Anyone may in fact claim "fair use" when items are found on the Web without copyright claim. There is no legal requirement of any kind for a person to go searching for copyright. That is why the DMCA was created, it was new and huge as well as multi-country. If someone inadvertently has copied an unidentified copyright photo, they have no liability except to remove it when provided with PROPER notice. That is the law. Triton

Response on your talk page. --Brion 00:00 27 May 2003 (UTC)

Thank you. I am not the lawyer for Wikipedia.org. nor are you. The copyright issue is well documented, if Mr. Wales plans to change the legal requirements for posting photos I will be glad to follow them but I certainly will not act contrary to the policy that applies to all contributors. I believe it is referred to as equality under the law. I take personal exception to your insinuations because if you read the issue being debated here with myself and Ms. Kemp, you would clearly see that it is about me working hard and posting facts while she deletes them with her unfounded theories thatr are definitely not even close to a Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Please read her text on List of French monarchs and tell me this is NPOV and encyclopedic. Then, please tell me why you allow her deletions without justification of my documented facts on Clovis I AND why she could refer to users as "Obtuse", "misrepresenters" and "liars" and you, Mr. Vibber say not one word. Now, I am asking one more time that you put an end to her abusive conduct. Is that a reasonable request? My behaviour has been most tolerant given the situation. And yes, I most certainly could be a lawyer or a clerk at Sears. Now, please take a moment and read those articles and check out Ms. Kemp's conduct before you insinuate anything with me. Thank you. Triton

Triton, you haven't been exactly nice to Julie from the start, calling her edits "unfounded whims" and telling her to learn more about a subject that she teaches. I think it is understandable that she got aggravated. If you both calm down, it might be possible to work out an agreeable solution. Just try to understand her point of view, and then try to find a solution that would be acceptable to both of you. --Eloquence 00:26 27 May 2003 (UTC)~

I must beg to differ. User Ms. Kemp belitted another user at Clovis I a few weeks ago. That condescending attitude, calling that erstwhile contributor a liar was not tolerable to me. I happen to know a tiny bit about the Merovingians, so I objected to her deletions that were made solely because she says so. No facts, no substantation. Only because she says she is this or that. Yet, I can't find one single publication by "Dr. Kemp", even if she could prove she is who she says she is. Encyclopedias are supposed to be books of facts, not books of opinions or theories. Read my article today on Clovis I that she deleted. She then accused me of copyright violation of the text (no proof) then belittled my very precise, accurate and 100% factual work. Why? Then she accused my maps of being copyright violation. WRONG! But, I proved it, I didn't just say it. And, what does she teach. This is the Internet. Identity theft, claims of education, occupation, mean nothing. What does though, is the content of ones work and I challenge Ms. Kemp to find one fault in mine -- with proof. Now, look at her work and attitude. With all due respect, what I see is unlike any teacher I ever had, and quite often I swear I think I'm Einstein, Joe that is.Triton

I recommend both Triton and JHK take a break and come back a while later for an objective biew of the work. kt2

Mr. Vibber. Would you please explain why this destructive abuse at Wikipedia is still being tolerated? :

cur) (last) . . 23:28 26 May 2003 . . J Hofmann Kemp (is the map copyrighted ? a question never answered)

Thank you. Triton

Well, largely because no one has any sympathy for you on account of your own behavior and rhetoric. I recommend you try taking the high ground: be nice. --Brion 01:28 27 May 2003 (UTC)

I don't want sympathy. That's rather a hilarious thought on this site with all the outbursts like poor old Andre today. I already pointed out Ms. Kemp's conduct. Did you tell her to be nice? Please show me where I was less than tolerable of a difficult situation I most certainly did not cause. AND, why do you allow sysop Kemp to delete this picture AFTER YOU posted its validity? Put an end to the crap and you won't hear rrom me other than quality input which you are totally cognizant of. I just don't get it. Did you even look at how she belittled someone on the Clovis I talk page. She drove away other sincere users who were actually trying to make a contribution. Perhaps if you dealt with an even hand, examined facts, all would respect you. Triton

Thank you for referencing Talk:Clovis I. I find Julie's messages there to be entirely appropriate and well-reasoned. Nothing she did involved use of any sysop powers, much less abuse. She mentions particular sources and authors, and offers to double-check those sources. You, on the other hand, come in flames a-blazing, refuse to cite sources, don't respond to requests for more details on sources, make constant accusations of abuse of sysop powers that are completely unsubstantiated, and have some weird fixation on "a detailed procedure required for deleting photos" (no photos were deleted, but indeed the procedure for deleting them involves first putting notes on talk pages and removing the image reference from articles, exactly what Julie did). --Brion 02:05 27 May 2003 (UTC)

Please cite my misconduct and define it. According to you the following from Talk:Clovis I is perfectly acceptable conduct by someone deleting another persons work without reason or proving supporting evidence:

"The statement about all prominent scholars considering the Merovingians to be French is at best a sad demonstration of obtuseness by a well-meaning amateur, at worst, a deliberate misinterpretation and/or outright lie."

Where every decent person comes from Mr. Vibber, it is reprehensible conduct. No one making an honest effort to Wikipedia wants to be put down like this. It smacks of intolerance. And again, please dear sir, read before you speak. The contributor left this site months ago because he was degraded and belittled for trying. And what, you want me to come along, accept Ms. Kemp's false articles and congratulate her for belittling the contributor? Sometoimes, we need to tell people the truth. Also, Mr. Vibber, look at the bottom of this page at what the honorable FearÉIREANN has said. It is a diatribe by someone bordering on paranoia. You made no reprimand here, nor did you respond to his spreading this lie despite you being the key party to the truth:

Same refusal to say where the images come from

So, I assume insinuations, unproven allegations, and derogatory remarks are acceptable to you too. If not, please speak out. Mr, Vibber try and deal straight up and above board. Treat all users equally. And yes, I read a great deal of the sysop wars over Fred's stuff and others. Where is the manners you claim you want in that kind of diatribe? Thank you. Triton

By the way, Paul Halsall states on the Internet Sourcebook home page that he reserves copyright on electronic versions he has posted -- does that mean that, if he scanned and resized the picture at Clovis I, he now can claim a new copyright on that version? Fortunately, he also states that permission to use is granted if no financial gain is to be made -- so I guess we're in the clear if Bomis isn't making money -- but what happens if it does become a commercial venture? Just asking ... JHK

Ms. Kemp. Why do you think Mr. Vibber is the legal counsel for Wikipedia.org? Triton

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/ makes the same kind of vague copyright claims on their (poorly) scanned (unproofread) copy of the public domain 1911 EB texts which are extensively used here; it's not clear that that kind of claim applies in any meaningful fashion where no creative additions have been made on the work. However I'd be happy to rescan anything I can get ahold of a local physical copy of anyway (we could use a cleaner, higher-resolution scan). In any case, I'll e-mail him and ask for clarification on whether this applies to the images (as opposed to the text, which is presumably proofread and laid out creatively in HTML). --Brion 05:57 27 May 2003 (UTC)

I don't know if you are aware of it, but there is a widespread belief that Triton is our old pal from hell, DW! Same pre-occupations. Same approach. Same abuse. Using the same images. Same refusal to say where the images come from. Same topics. Only a different name. Why can't he have a personality transplant to go along with each of his names? Heh heh. Slán. FearÉIREANN 05:40 27 May 2003 (UTC)

A message on malfunction for you on zh:用户对话:Brion VIBBER. --Menchi 03:43 28 May 2003 (UTC)

Response re: copyright stuff at Wikipedia:Copyright issues.

I would still appreciate it if you could put en: on current CVS status. --Eloquence 14:53 29 May 2003 (UTC)

Brion, could you please ban User:Michael/Crass? The Anome 00:38 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

...and you might want to take a look at User:Michael/Trapeze, too. The Anome 19:17 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Just wanted to thank you for all your help with User:Kils/User:Viking. It was certainly an unpleasant situation. MB 07:30 1 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hi Brion!

It still always amazes me that with all the load you still get around to helping me out.

Which makes me feel all the more bad about this little request - When trying to go to he.wikipedia.org, I get - (quote)

Wikipedia has moved!

http://www.wikipedia.org/ is now handled by our new server at 130.94.122.199. If you're seeing this page thinking you're coming to www.wikipedia.org, your DNS is out of date!

(endquote)

huh?!, and thanks!!!! -- Aarrrggghhh 09:14 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Could you teach me how to update the most active wikipedians page? MB 14:43 2 Jun 2003 (UTC)

hello dear Brion. A french user is reporting a little mess in user old and new identity. Could you check your french page for support please ? ant

Could a developer check to see if User:Eddie is loging in using User:Michael's ip range (i.e. 152.163.25x.xxx)? He has been reverting articles of User:Michael's back to user Michael's content in a sneaky way. I just want to make sure it is or isn't User:Michael. If it is him, please ban the account. Thanks. MB 17:40 4 Jun 2003 (UTC)

User:Fuck is Michael, please ban and delete the account, or whatever is nessesary. MB 15:31 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Michael is back as User:Weezer/NOFX, attempts to reason with him to E-mail Jimbo have come to nothing, usual mind-games, alas, please ban the account. The Anome 15:11 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)

user:My Green Dice is also Michael-- Green Dice, with spaces, not MyRedDice, without. Anyway, he's leaving vulgar edit summaries and moving Hephaestos' page to different places; could you block him please? Thanks. Koyaanis Qatsi 01:53 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)

deletion comment bug fixed in cvs. --Eloquence 01:47 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)