Jump to content

Talk:Turkey

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Myanw (talk | contribs) at 21:07, 6 February 2007 (Revert to revision 106033716 dated 2007-02-06 12:10:14 by Tedblack using popups). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

{{ArticleHistory ugh. i am so annoyed that someone called me a punk! god...lol |action1=FAC |action1date=20:17, 9 January 2007 |action1link=Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Turkey |action1result=promoted |action1oldid=99596248 |currentstatus=FA }}

WikiProject iconTurkey FA‑class Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
FAThis article has been rated as FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
"WP:WPC" redirects here. For the WikiProject on WikiProjects, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Council. For the editing tool, see Wikipedia:WPCleaner. See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Categories and Wikipedia:WikiProject China.
Project Countries main pageTalkParticipantsTemplatesArticlesPicturesTo doArticle assessmentCountries portal

This WikiProject helps develop country-related pages (of all types) and works toward standardizing the formats of sets and types of country-related pages. For example, the sets of Culture of x, Administrative divisions of x, and Demographics of x articles, etc. – (where "x" is a country name) – and the various types of pages, like stubs, categories, etc.

WikiProject Countries articles as of May 7, 2024

What's new?

Did you know

Proposed deletions

  • 22 Oct 2024 – Dobruja Horde (talk · edit · hist) was PRODed by Mccapra (t · c): Unverifiable.
  • 24 Oct 2024 – Champa (Ja Thak Wa) (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by 202.53.53.118 (t · c) was deproded by 唐吉訶德的侍從 (t · c) on 27 Oct 2024

Categories for discussion

Redirects for discussion

Featured list candidates

Good article nominees

Featured article reviews

Requests for comments

Requested moves

Articles to be merged

Articles to be split

Articles for creation

To do list

Scope

This WikiProject is focused on country coverage (content/gaps) and presentation (navigation, page naming, layout, formatting) on Wikipedia, especially country articles (articles with countries as their titles), country outlines, and articles with a country in their name (such as Demographics of Germany), but also all other country-related articles, stubs, categories, and lists pertaining to countries.

This WikiProject helps Wikipedia's navigation-related WikiProjects (Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge, WikiProject Categories, WikiProject Portals, etc.) develop and maintain the navigation structures (menus, outlines, lists, templates, and categories) pertaining to countries. And since most countries share the same subtopics ("Cities of", "Cuisine of", "Religion in", "Prostitution in", etc.), it is advantageous to standardize their naming, and their order of presentation in Wikipedia's indexes and table-of-contents-like pages.

Categories

Click on "►" below to display subcategories:
Countries
Click on "►" below to display subcategories:
WikiProject Countries

Subpages

Formatting

Many country and country-related articles have been extensively developed, but much systematic or similar information about many countries is not presented in a consistent way. Inconsistencies are rampant in article naming, headings, data presented, types of things covered, order of coverage, etc. This WikiProject works towards standardizing page layouts of country-related articles of the same type ("Geography of", "Government of", "Politics of", "Wildlife of", etc.).

We are also involved with the standardization of country-related stubs, standardizing the structure of country-related lists and categories (the category trees for countries should be identical for the most part, as most countries share the same subcategories – though there will be some differences of course).

Goals

  1. Provide a centralized resource guide of all related topics in Wikipedia, as well as spearhead the effort to improve and develop them.
  2. Create uniform templates that serve to identify all related articles as part of this project, as well as stub templates to englobe all related stubs under specific categories.
  3. Standardize articles about different nations, cultures, holidays, and geography.
  4. Verify historical accuracy and neutrality of all articles within the scope of the project.
  5. Create, expand and cleanup related articles.

Structure and guidelines

Although referenced during FA and GA reviews, this structure guide is advisory only, and should not be enforced against the wishes of those actually working on the article in question. Articles may be best modeled on the layout of an existing article of appropriate structure and topic (See: Canada, Japan and Australia)

Main polities

Main article: Country

A country is a distinct part of the world, such as a state, nation, or other political entity. When referring to a specific polity, the term "country" may refer to a sovereign state, states with limited recognition, constituent country, or a dependent territory.

Lead section

Shortcut
See also: WP:Lead section
For lead length see, #Size
Opening paragraphs
Further information: MOS:INTRO

The article should start with a good simple introduction, giving name of the country, general location in the world, bordering countries, seas and the like. Also give other names by which the country may still be known (for example Holland, Persia). Also, add a few facts about the country, the things that it is known for (for example the mentioning of windmills in the Netherlands article). The primary purpose of a Wikipedia lead is not to summarize the topic, but to summarize the content of the article.

First sentence
Further information: MOS:FIRST

The first sentence should introduce the topic, and tell the nonspecialist reader what the subject is, and where. It should be in plain English.

The etymology of a country's name, if worth noting and naming disputes, may be dealt with in the etymology section. Foreign-languages, pronunciations and acronyms may also belong in the etymology section or in a note to avoid WP:LEADCLUTTER.

Example:

checkY Sweden,[a] formally the Kingdom of Sweden,[b] is a Nordic country located on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe.
☒N Sweden,(Swedish: Sverige [ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ⓘ) formally the Kingdom of Sweden,(Swedish: Konungariket Sverige [ˈkôːnɵŋaˌriːkɛt ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ⓘ) is a Nordic country located on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe.

Detail, duplication and tangible information
Shortcut
Further information: Wikipedia:How to create and manage a good lead section

Overly detailed information or infobox data duplication such as listing random examples, excessive numbered statistics or naming individuals should be reserved for the infobox or body of the article. The lead prose should provide clear, relevant information through links to relevant sub-articles about the country an relevant terms, rather than listing random stats and articles with minimal information about the country.

Example:

checkY A developed country, Canada has a high nominal per capita income globally and its advanced economy ranks among the largest in the world, relying chiefly upon its abundant natural resources and well-developed international trade networks. Recognized as a middle power, Canada's strong support for multilateralism and internationalism has been closely related to its foreign relations policies of peacekeeping and aid for developing countries. Canada is part of multiple international organizations and forums.
☒N A highly developed country, Canada has the seventeenth-highest nominal per-capita income globally and the sixteenth-highest ranking in the Human Development Index. Its advanced economy is the tenth-largest in the world and the 14th for military expenditure by country, Canada is part of several major international institutions including the United Nations, NATO, the G7, the Group of Ten, the G20, the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement, the Commonwealth of Nations, the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum, and the Organization of American States.

Infobox

There is a table with quick facts about the country called an infobox. A template for the table can be found at the bottom of this page.

Although the table can be moved out to the template namespace (to e.g. [[Template:CountryName Infobox]]) and thus easen the look of the edit page, most Wikipedians still disapprove as of now, see the talk page.

The contents are as follows:

  • The official long-form name of the country in the local language is to go on top as the caption. If there are several official names (languages), list all (if reasonably feasible). The conventional long-form name (in English), if it differs from the local long-form name, should follow the local name(s). This is not a parameter to list every recognized language of a country, but rather for listing officially recognize national languages.
  • The conventional short-form name of the country, recognised by the majority of the English-speaking world; ideally, this should also be used for the name of the article.
  • A picture of the national flag. You can find flags at the List of flags. A smaller version should be included in the table itself, a larger-sized version in a page titled Flag of <country>, linked to via the "In Detail" cell. Instead of two different images, use the autothumbnail function that wiki offers.
  • A picture of the national coat of arms. A good source is required for this, but not yet available. It should be no more than 125 pixels in width.
  • Below the flag and coat of arms is room for the national motto, often displayed on the coat of arms (with translation, if necessary).
  • The official language(s) of the country. (rot the place to list every recognized or used language)
  • The political status. Specify if it is a sovereign state or a dependent territory.
  • The capital city, or cities. Explain the differences if there are multiple capital cities using a footnote (see example at the Netherlands).
  • If the data on the population is recent and reliable, add the largest city of the country.
  • Land area: The area of the country in square kilometres (km²) and square miles (sq mi) with the world-ranking of this country. Also add the % of water, which can be calculated from the data in the Geography article (make it negligible if ~0%).
  • Population: The number of inhabitants and the world-ranking; also include a year for this estimate (should be 2000 for now, as that is the date of the ranking). For the population density you can use the numbers now available.
  • GDP: The amount of the gross domestic product on ppp base and the world ranking. also include the amount total and per head.
  • HDI: Information pertaining to the UN Human Development Index – the value, year (of value), rank (with ordinal), and category (colourised as per the HDI country list).
  • Currency; the name of the local currency. Use the pipe if the currency name is also used in other countries: [[Australian dollar|dollar]].
  • Time zone(s); the time zone or zones in which the country is relative to UTC
  • National anthem; the name of the National anthem and a link to the article about it.
  • Internet TLD; the top-level domain code for this country.
  • Calling Code; the international Calling Code used for dialing this country.
Lead map

There is a long-standing practice that areas out of a state's control should be depicted differently on introductory maps, to not give the impression the powers of a state extend somewhere they do not. This is for various types of a lack of control, be it another state (eg. Crimea, bits of Kashmir) or a separatist body (eg. DPR, TRNC).

Sections

Further information: Wikipedia:Summary style and Wikipedia:Too much detail
Shortcut

A section should be written in summary style, containing just the important facts. Undue weight can be given in several ways, including but not limited to the depth of detail, the quantity of text, prominence of placement, the juxtaposition of statements, and the use of imagery. Main article fixation is an observed effect that editors are likely to encounter in county articles. If a section it is too large, information should be transferred to the sub-article. Avoid sections focusing on criticisms or controversies. Try to achieve a more neutral text by folding debates into the narrative, rather than isolating them into sections.

Articles may consist of the following sections:

  • Etymology sections are often placed first (sometimes called name depending on the information in the article). Include only if due information is available.
  • History – An outline of the major events in the country's history (about 4 to 6 paragraphs, depending on complexity of history), including some detail on current events. Sub-article: "History of X"
  • Politics – Overview of the current governmental system, possibly previous forms, some short notes on the parliament. Sub-article: "Politics of X"
  • Administrative divisions – Overview of the administrative subdivisions of the country. Name the section after the first level of subdivisions (and subsequent levels, if available) (e.g. provinces, states, departments, districts, etc.) and give the English equivalent name, when available. Also include overseas possessions. This section should also include an overview map of the country and subdivisions, if available.
  • Geography – Details of the country's main geographic features and climate. Historical weather boxes should be reserved for sub articles. Sub-article: "Geography of X"
  • Economy – Details on the country's economy, major industries, bit of economic history, major trade partners, a tad comparison etc. Sub-article: "Economy of X"
  • Demographics – Mention the languages spoken, the major religions, some well known properties of the people of X, by which they are known. Uncontextualized data and charts should be avoided. (See WP:NOTSTATS and WP:PROSE) Sub-article: "Demographics of X".
  • Culture – Summary of the country's specific forms of art (anything from painting to film) and its best known cultural contributions. Caution should be taken to ensure that the sections are not simply a listing of names or mini biographies of individuals accomplishments. Good example Canada#Sports. Sub-article: "Culture of X".
  • See also – 'See also" sections of country articles normally only contain links to "Index of country" and "Outline of country" articles, alongside the main portal(s).
  • References – Sums up "Notes", "References", and all "Further Reading" or "Bibliography"
  • External links – Links to official websites about the country. See WP:External links
Size
Shortcut
Main pages: Wikipedia:Article size and Wikipedia:Summary style § Article size
Articles that have gone through FA and GA reviews generally consists of approximately 8,000 to 10,000 words as per WP:SIZERULE, with a lead usually four paragraphs as per MOS:LEADLENGTH.
  • Australia = Prose size (text only): 60 kB (9,304 words) "readable prose size"
  • Bulgaria = Prose size (text only): 56 kB (8,847 words) "readable prose size"
  • Canada = Prose size (text only): 67 kB (9,834 words) "readable prose size"
  • Germany = Prose size (text only): 54 kB (8,456 words) "readable prose size"
  • Japan = Prose size (text only): 51 kB (8,104 words) "readable prose size"
  • East Timor = Prose size (text only): 53 kB (8,152 words) "readable prose size"
  • Malaysia = Prose size (text only): 57 kB (9,092 words) "readable prose size"
  • New Zealand = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9,761 words) "readable prose size"
  • Philippines = Prose size (text only): 62 kB (9,178 words) "readable prose size"
Hatnote

The link should be shown as below: Avoid link clutter of multiple child articles in a hierarchical setup as hatnotes. Important links/articles shoukd be incorporated into the prose of the section. For example, Canada#Economy is a summary section with a hatnote to Economy of Canada that summarizes the history with a hatnote to Economic history of Canada. See WP:SUMMARYHATNOTE for more recommended hatnote usages.

checkY== Economy ==

Main article: Economy of Canada

☒N== Economy ==

Main article: Economy of Canada

See also: Petroleum industry in Canada and Agriculture in Canada

Further information: Economic history of Canada and Early Canadian banking system

Charts

Shortcut

As prose text is preferred, overly detailed statistical charts and diagrams such as economic trends, weather boxes, historical population charts, and past elections results, etc, should be reserved for main sub articles on the topic as per WP:DETAIL as outlined at WP:NOTSTATS.

Galleries

Shortcut

Galleries or clusters of images are generally discouraged as they may cause undue weight to one particular section of a summary article and may cause accessibility problems, such as sand­wich­ing of text, images that are too small or fragmented image display for some readers as outlined at WP:GALLERY. Articles that have gone through modern FA and GA reviews generally consists of one image for every three or four paragraph summary section, see MOS:ACCESS#FLOAT and MOS:SECTIONLOC for more information.

Footers

As noted at Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes the number of templates at the bottom of any article should be kept to a minimum. Country pages generally have footers that link to pages for countries in their geographic region. Footers for international organizations are not added to country pages, but they rather can go on subpages such as "Economy of..." and "Foreign relations of..." Categories for some of these organizations are also sometimes added. Templates for supranational organizations like the European Union and CARICOM are permitted. A list of the footers that have been created can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries/Templates/Navboxes, however note that many of these are not currently in use.

Transclusions

Transclusions are generally discouraged in country articles for reasons outlined below.

This section is transcluded from Help:Transclusion. (edit | history)
Shortcut
Further information: Wikipedia:Transclusion costs and benefits

Like many software technologies, transclusion comes with a number of drawbacks. The most obvious one being the cost in terms of increased machine resources needed; to mitigate this to some extent, template limits are imposed by the software to reduce the complexity of pages. Some further drawbacks are listed below.

Lists of countries

To determine which entities should be considered separate "countries" or included on lists, use the entries in ISO 3166-1 plus the list of states with limited recognition, except:

  • Lists based on only a single source should follow that source.
  • Specific lists might need more logical criteria. For example, list of sovereign states omits non-sovereign entities listed by ISO-3166-1. Lists of sports teams list whichever entities that have teams, regardless of sovereignty. Lists of laws might follow jurisdiction boundaries (for example, England and Wales is a single jurisdiction).

For consistency with other Wikipedia articles, the names of entities do not need to follow sources or ISO-3166-1. The names used as the titles of English Wikipedia articles are a safe choice for those that are disputed.

Resources

Notes

  1. ^ Swedish: Sverige [ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ⓘ; Finnish: Ruotsi; Meänkieli: Ruotti; Northern Sami: Ruoŧŧa; Lule Sami: Svierik; Pite Sami: Sverji; Ume Sami: Sverje; Southern Sami: Sveerje or Svöörje; Yiddish: שוועדן, romanized: Shvedn; Scandoromani: Svedikko; Kalo Finnish Romani: Sveittiko.
  2. ^ Swedish: Konungariket Sverige [ˈkôːnɵŋaˌriːkɛt ˈsvæ̌rjɛ] ⓘ

Template:European Union

WikiProject iconSoftware: Computing Unassessed
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Software, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of software on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SoftwareWikipedia:WikiProject SoftwareTemplate:WikiProject Softwaresoftware articles
???This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Computing.

Template:V0.5

Guidelines for editing the Turkey article
  • Units in metric should be spelled out with the converted English units abbreviated in parentheses per Manual of Style.
  • Only external links pertaining to Turkey as a whole, or official government of Turkey links are solicited on this page. Please add other links in their respective articles. For further information, please see Wikipedia guidelines on External links and Conflict of interest.
  • All sections are a summary of more detailed articles. If you find any points missing, please add it in the section's main article rather than on this page to keep this page size within reasonable limits.
  • Please use the correct WP:CITE format when adding references. If you are not sure what citation format is appropriate, please see WP:CITE for a list of available citation templates.
Archive
Archives

Please do not edit archived pages. If you want to react to a statement made in an archived discussion, please make a new header on THIS page. Baristarim 03:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Archives:

The article of 1911 Edition of Encyclopaedia Brittanica about Turkey posted by User:3210

Archives continued

Note: There have been contoversial issues in the past. Please check the archives on the right to overview the past discussions before making any substantial changes.

Comments

GA PASSED!!!

I am going to pass this article based on the following criteria:

  1. It is well written.: It is VERY well written. The prose is easy to understand and flows very nicely!
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.: It is with regard to GA threshold: That is all assertions either challenged or likely to be challenged are referenced. This article is close to FA status, but further referencing is needed to meet the FA standard for referencing. See below for some more tips before you take this to FA review...
  3. It is broad in its coverage.: Boy is it ever. This is FA material if I ever saw it!
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy. With a nation so close to many of our cultutal and philosophical crossroads, it would be east not to be NPOV. This article seems to do a VERY good job of addressing all issues, even those that could be controversial, in a sensitive and yet comprehensive manner.
  5. It is stable Looks like the only changes are improvements, and there does not seem to be any contentious edit wars...
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.: I spot checked the images included and they seem to be in good order WRT liscencing. Please double check EVERY image before going to FA as rules of liscencing images are very stringent there.

If you are going to take this for a Featured Article Review (and I STRONGLY encourage you to do so... I will endorse it!) then please consider the following checks:

  • All assertions of fact (not just those deemed "controversial") should probably be referenced. This is nearly done here, and should be easy to pick up what you missed, things like Historical dates, geographic information, etc. etc.
  • All images need to be double checked to insure they ALL meet proper guidelines for inclusion and compatability with GFDL/CC etc.
  • There's a typo in the refs section. One of the dates is missing a digit. No biggie, but you might as well fix it.

Anyways, congrats, and let me know on my talk page when you nominate this for FA. Like I said, I will endorse its promotion if it looks as good as it does now! --Jayron32 03:53, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!!!! Made me smile after a long stressful day. I will fix whatever is necessary to make it FA. Cheers! Baristarim 06:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Congratulations to all contributors and to Baristarim who initiated and undertook most of this effort. Thanks for the review Jayron! Atilim Gunes Baydin 18:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yea wonderful job Baristarim :) Its been really good that you've been working on this article for so long. We all really appreciate it :) -- WiiVolve 11:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Locator map

Hi, during last October, I created and uploaded the map Image:Europe_location_TUR2.png to match the then newly launched map style used by Turkey's immediate neighbors (part of the "Europe location" map series created and maintained by User:David Liuzzo). The "Europe location" map collection is recently updated (see Image:Europe_location_ITA.png as an example), and unfortunately on the map depicting Turkey in this new series, Image:Europe_location_TUR.png, the country is half covered with a legend. This last update made Image:Europe_location_TUR2.png obsolete, as its design is no longer shared with any other country article. The other map suggested by David Liuzzo, Image:Asia location TUR.png also suffers from not following any established style and is very oddly cropped.

For now, I'm replacing the map with Image:LocationTurkey2.png, one of the two main designs currently in use. The article can also switch back to the veteran green Image:LocationTurkey.png, which has less detail. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 05:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can we not get David Luzzo to move the legend to the left for the Turkey map? --A.Garnet 13:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I still haven't talked with him, but from some of his comments on his user talk page on Commons, and the fact that he nominated Image:Europe_location_TUR2.png for deletion [1], it looks like he is not happy to see his design used on this article and he only intends it to be used only when a country is wholly on the European continent. Actually, I sense that he purposefully put the legend there to prevent the design from being used by Turkey, Armenia, and Georgia, as it also conveniently covers the vague European boundaries in the Caucasus. But that's just my guess. Atilim Gunes Baydin 16:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FA!!!

Pop the champagne! Baristarim 20:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent stuff, good effort. Great to see another Turkish related article at FA. Whats next? :) --A.Garnet 20:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Great news! Congrats! --Free smyrnan 21:08, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Baristarim, it is your right to drink all the champagne. Victory! Deliogul 21:31, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yay. :-) Khoikhoi 06:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats to Baristarim and all, who contributed to this result! CeeGee 07:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Tebrikler, Baris abi! Finally it is concluded! Caglarkoca 11:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Tebrikler & congratulations to all contributors..! :) --Xasf 11:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This was like a dream when I started editing Wikipedia in 2005 and it is mostly achieved by the complete dedication of Baristarim. So does any of you have a suggestion for the date of main page appearance (Wikipedia:Today's featured article)? I mean, it could perhaps coincide with a special anniversary for the Republic (the closest one seems to be April 23), or do you want it to make the appearance as soon as possible? Thanks for the champagne! Atilim Gunes Baydin 16:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As an important issue, I checked the suggested intro for the main page appearance, by Baristarim (Wikipedia:Today's_featured_article/requests#Turkey) and it's not as good as I expected (for this brilliant article). I specifically don't like the "one of the most populous of the Middle East" part, and it doesn't make sense to focus on this "most populous" and "Middle East" issue, when there is no mention of the European Union candidacy and accession negotiations (that's the primary issue in Turkey's government, politics, economy, reforms, and almost everything else). Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 16:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) I filed a request this morning, and I said no particular date since nothing came to my mind. I suppose that if there are any proposals, I can modify it. Thanks a lot by the way, and I am just glad that I could help; It was also like a dream when I first came to Wikipedia :) And it was really sad that many of us were spending time in the talk page and on the article since the article's state was leading to a lot of disputes and POV problems. Many of the references in this article as it is can also be used to develop other related articles. I just thought that if WikiProject Turkey was ever going to be doing some serious work, we needed to start from the beginning with a solid main country article which will be the main article to englobe other Turkey-related articles in a clear hierarchy. And, by the way, it feels good to be discussing the date of a FA appearance rather than some hardcore political dispute for a change :)) Baristarim 16:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm.. You are right.. It was way too late when I prepared that entry and couldn't put too much thought into it. It can still be modified, the next round of selections won't be for another week. Baristarim 16:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Congratulations everyone -- WiiVolve 10:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Map situation

Do we have any progress on a proper map? From what i understood the current map is a temporary measure until we sort out something more consistent with other maps on Wikipedia, any news on this? I think there is a more urgent need to sort this considering its FA status now. Thanks, --A.Garnet 01:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can say that the current map is rubbish. I love the older European continental map. Deliogul 12:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
True. The problem is that this seems to be a wider Wikipedia thing that is affecting the maps of many country articles, so we are kind of waiting the resolution of the problem at a wider level. I think Atilim tried to contact the mapmaker for further clarification, but there is still no news. If there is still no news of a new brand of maps (that are supposedly being prepared), then we should revert back to the older European continental map soon.Baristarim 12:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is currently no change in the situation. Since it seems no one likes the current map and it's not like there is a consensus for one definite map style (I mean, overall in Wikipedia), I'm changing the map back to Image:Europe location TUR2.png. Note that the map is currently nominated for deletion in Wikimedia Commons, but I do not believe the result will be deletion. Please feel free to change it back, if this poses a problem for the FA status. Also, if you have any suggestions for a new map (style, layout, everything) please share it with me and I'll do my best to create a better map. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 16:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi again, my last stance is to go with Image:LocationTurkey.png. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 00:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Europe location map is the best the rest look very bad. Nareklm 00:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There was another round of edit-wars in all country articles about the maps... Baristarim 07:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, the beloved map comes back :) Deliogul 22:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Human rights

Human rights is a central issue mitigating against Turkish EU accession, as well as Orhan Pamuk trial and others against Turkish intellectuals and HR activists. I suggest that a Human Rights sub-section is needed - a short paragraph with all the relevant links. The issue is too important to be lost in the text. To those concerned, IMHO such a sub section is not 'anti-Turkish' (as defined in the Turkish Constitution) but reveals the HR movement in the country. Politis 23:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As for sub-sections, pls see other FA country articles like Canada, India, Australia etc. The structure of the article was copied from them. There shouldn't be any sub-sections. Again don't forget that the article is an overview of the whole country, not one particular topic. It is not the article about the TR-EU accession :) the accession process is not the only thing that needs to be known about Turkey. It is a main issue in foreign relations, but that's it. There are also other areas that need to be covered: economy, geography, culture, history, military, politics etc. The whole Ottoman years is talked about in a paragraph, talking about the case of Orhan Pamuk wouldn't make sense - particularly since the charges were annulled to begin with. It is already mentioned in their respective articles. It is all about context. :) Baristarim 00:23, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, this doesn't make sense "such a sub section is not 'anti-Turkish' (as defined in the Turkish Constitution)". I rewrote the Turkish Constitution article, is there any mention of human rights being anti-Turkish?? :) I think that you are a bit fuzzy about the subject and I am guessing that you are talking about a particular article in the Penal Code that penalizes acts of overtly insulting Turkishness. They are not the same thing. And its jurisprudence and ramifications are still not clear. Orhan Pamuk was the editor in chief for one day of a major Turkish newspaper just two days ago, as a gesture by the newspaper. There is no anti-Orhan Pamuk hunting going on that you are making it out to be :) Don't get lost in the hype generated in the West about this sort of stuff.Baristarim 00:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1922, just the one army

The text reads, "By September 18 1922, the occupying armies were repelled and the country saw the birth of the new Turkish state"... In fact, there was only one army that was defeated, the Greek army.
Greece re-emerged as a state by becoming the first people to defeat the Ottoman Turks and establish their own country; and Turkey became a Republic - the last country to emerge out of the Ottoman Empire - by defeating the Greeks. Now that, is symetry. Politis 23:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Umm, not quite true. I see what you mean, but the Greek army was the last one to leave the territory of what is now Turkey. I think that's what you meant. Take a look at Turkish-Armenian War for example. There were also French, British and Italian troops in Istanbul until the Treaty of Lausanne for example, not to mention in various parts of Anatolia between 1918-1922, and etc etc.. :) It is quite a long story.. Baristarim 23:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
September 18 1922, Turkish forces entered Izmir, the last stronghold of the Greek forces. Actually the Greek army was not the only one Politis. You know, British were controlling Istanbul and Eastern Thrace but because we are talking about a specific date, you are right. Also, Greek people weren't the first nation to try it (it was Serbia) but the first nation to achieve it. Take care, Deliogul 23:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Zaferrr!

Turkcell Super League article is choosen as the football collaboration of the week! Please help expanding the article. Oy atanlara büyük teşekkür. Deliogul 14:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good.. I left a note in the talk page of WPTR as well. By the way, WPTR pages have been undergoing some changes lately. Any interested editors are welcome to take a look, particularly at the [[2]] and article drives. Baristarim 09:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bounty

By the way, the FA earned the Wikimedia foundation 25 USD in donations [3] :) I had forgotten to mention this along the way; I actually ran into it right after the FA when I was perusing through some older discussions at WP Countries and contacted the user who made the offer before it was too late... Baristarim 02:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Map of Turkey includes Greek island

A mistake in the map of the Turkish provinces (Image:BlankMapTurkeyProvinces.png.) Just off Edirne Province it includes the island of Samothraki; it is on the top, left hand side of the map. Needs to be removed for accuracy - it does not come under any Turkish provice :-)

Baristarim, I found the reference to 'anti-Turkish' activities mentioned above. I actually meant the crime of 'insulting Turkishness'(!). Where does it stand now days? For instance, Hrant Dink was charged with it and received a 6 month suspended sentence. Politis 21:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Case law (jurisprudence) is still being established because the law is fairly new, and the cases have to go before the High Court of Appeals for it to clarify its interpretation. By the way, you said that it was the Turkish constitution, that's why I had asked. Baristarim 22:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I could not figure out by whom the notice about Samothraki was added to the page and I don't get what you people are talking about under this heading :). After double checking the map again, I don't see Samothraki painted orange (I assume Image:Europe location TUR2.png was referred to). Are you perhaps mistaken because Gökçeada / Imbros? Atilim Gunes Baydin 23:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Baris. I assume it is not in the constitution then. But it's a strange, if not challenging offence to understand, especially since there are presumably no specific clauses defining Turkishness. Gunes, I think the designer of the map confused Gokceada/Imbros for Samothraki and Tenedos for Imbros. Tenedos is, in fact, too small to appear on the map; make sense :-? Politis 00:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Turkishness

Found it. Where? Wikipedia's front page, news section 2 days ago. It is called Insulting Turkishness or Article 301 (Turkish penal code). But what is Turkishness? When does it begin@ I ask myself because its cultural and political influence exists around the area, or is that Ottomanism? No immediate answers required :-)Politis 17:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New Para

Someone added a (well referenced) paragraph in "culture" about radicalisation. I've reformatted and ever so slightly rewritten it, anyone think there's a better section for this to go in? It fits in "culture" because of the "insulting Tukishness" link, but it's not a perfect fit. Maybe moving it until after we've said who the Nobel guy is? Anyway, it seems interesting enough, the refs are top notch, opinions? yandman 10:15, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Baristarim has been busy chopping this paragraph (which I inserted ; the Nobel guy is the brilliant turkish writer Orhan Pamuk author of "Instanbul: Memories and the City"). Seems he likes NPOV as long as it is pro-Turkish. Yes this paragraph is based on well known coverage by reputable british newspapers that cannot be accused of perpetuating anti-turkish propaganda (in fact the Guardian is decidedly pro-turkish). Can anyone stop the multiple reverts imposed by Baristarim? This is not turkipedia after all... --Tedblack 16:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I hadn't see the posts here. I posted messages to your talk pages in the mean time. I will paste some of them again.
In this case, the addition, in the culture section that gives the overview of a millenia of Turkish culture, of a whole paragraph (on top of the existing four) that compares the Turkish youth to Nazis based on very weird analysis??? The fact that Mein Kempf sold 150,000 doesn't mean anything, and it definitely doesn't merit to be in that article by a longshot. I have Mein Kempf at home which I had bought in college, along with the Bible, Das Capital etc etc. You know we should actively stop the article from becoming a newscast. You know why? Off the topic, let me give you an example: Mein Kempf sold (in its first ever edition in Turkish in Turkey ~150,000 copies. (Before the only copies were in English) Well, there are 72m people. Anybody who adds this info to the culture section and try to make it look like Turks are Nazis is either a)doesn't know anything about the topic or b)is in bad faith with an axe to grind. Anyways.. So 150,000 copies eh? The latest Picasso exhibit in Istanbul in the Sabanci Museum (first in Turkish history as well) - drew nearly 1m visitors for the duration of the exhibit. So next time, if someone adds that Turks are Nazis because some book sold so many in its first addition, I think we can add that bit too :) Please try to sit back and think again about such additions. Turkey has been opening up to the world very fast since the end of the Cold War, and such fluctuations are normal. It is not like the book had been on sale since the 40s and suddenly people rushed to the bookstores to buy it.
This article is not a newscast on Turkey. It won't go to any other section in this article either. This article gives an overview, and is not some common article - it is one of the best FA country articles in Wikipedia. Ted, please cut down on the innuendo - this is not "let's bang on Turkey forum" either. Just from a Wikipedian point of view, I would say that any more additions to this article would have to be carefully scrutinized. And yandman, "references are top-notch" doesn't mean anything - the addition has to make sense and fit in with the article to begin with, then it becomes referenced - not the other way around. The Picasso exhibit drew in two months ten times more visitors than those who bought that book. Can I include in that section "Turks are extremely cultured and sophisticated people, and major art exhibits easily draw million visitors"?? No. This is an overview of the country in a historical timeline. I don't know how many times this has been said in the talk page... Baristarim 16:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
<edit conflict> Hi Ted. First, try not to make personal attacks, and assume good faith on the part of other editors. Baristarim is worried that the paragraph gives undue mention to a relatively minor statistic in a paragraph which is supposed to be about culture. According to him, the Mein Kamp statistic is because the book has only just been sold in Turkish, which means it's not that important. I think we need to mention (very briefly) the whole ultra-nationalist movement somewhere in the article, though. I know such movements are common in middle-eastern countries, but Turkey is also a developed, maybe one day European, state, so I think it deserves a passing comment in the article (maybe at the same place as we mention the demographics). Does anyone have an idea as to where it could be mentioned? yandman 16:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I will try to find a way to possibly add a phrase into the foreign relations section since most of that rise in nationalism stems from the problems encountered during the EU accession process + possibly northern Iraq, but that is relatively minor. I should get around to it soon but I got to run for the moment! Baristarim 17:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just in case Baristarim or Yandman think that I added the comments on the radicalisation of turkish youth by picking on minority views from anti-turkish newspapers or the last few years from a long (and impressive) history of Turks as a nation here are some more references that cover this trend: [4]; [5]; Ali Tuna Kuyucu "Ethno-religious 'unmixing' of 'Turkey': 6–7 September riots as a case in Turkish nationalism", Nations and Nationalism 11 (3), 361–380; Ioannis Grigoriadis , "Nationalism, Society and Culture in post-Ottoman South East Europe", 29-30 May 2004, Oxford Balkan Society South East European Studies Programme (SEESP) European Studies Centre, St Antony’s College ; wikipedias article on neo-fascism ; [6] ; [7] etc. If you guys still believe that I am adding "weid" views supported by writers with "an axe to grind" then god help the NPOV policy ! --Tedblack 16:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody said that nationalism hasn't risen in Turkey in the last couple of years, but simply taking out the Mein Kempf stat and blending it with Dink's assassination and say that it has practically become a hobby for the Turkish youth is a bit weird, I am sorry to say. It is way too piecemeal and doesn't analyze the issue correctly. There have been many journalists assassinated in Turkey over the decades and the level of nationalism has always fluctuated depending on the status of Turkey's foreign relations and economy. Same goes for religion. The way you added the latest bit made it really sound like there was a huge Nazi revival among the young Turks, and it doesn't fit in well with the culture section at all. I will look into it soon and see if I can do another addition to the foreign relations section and contact you when I will get around to it. Cheers Baristarim 17:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

yandman a good place to add the new paragraph is under culture. As my references show current rise in authoriarian political currents (islamofascism etc) is part of a long trend in militant policies from the beginning of the Ottoman empire. --Tedblack 17:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no need for a new paragraph. You seem to be confused about what "culture" means. Your additions are extremely POV and unbalanced. I personally don't think that you are trying to improve the article actually seeing your history and contributions. Baristarim 18:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Paragraph? It doesn't deserve even a sentence!
Well, Milliyet the Turkish newspaper just the other day wrote that according to calculations done by an architect, it was actually 120.000 to 200.000 people that walked for Hrant Dink's funeral, shouting "we are all Armenians". This is around the number of mein kampf copies that are sold, if not more.(and I wonder how many of them are completely read) Consider that, it was on a relatively hard time to join the ceremony, a weekday morning plus the week for the final examinations in most of the 20-something universities in Istanbul. (To explain how this is related, university students are considered to be one of the most active community in such demonstrations, and a lot of my friends couldn't join the walk just because of this reason). Since it has been almost two years since the sales of mein kampf boomed (I just checked and the articles about that were from march 2005) I guess mein kampf helped to decrease the Turkish nationalism, if it did any effect on it.
I believe that Turkey is in an ideological transition period, exactly the opposite of nationalism. Yes, just recently a journalist was shot dead by an idiot kid, but have you seen the reactions for that?
Plus I just read this source [8] you have given and absoulutely terrified. Dude, I don't know where you found this and who wrote it but I am living in this Turkey and half of the stuff there is made up, and the other half is exaggrated. whatsmore that MHP party there got %8.5 votes in last elections and couldn't even get into the parliment. That essay talks about them as if they are in office.
And even if it was not so, what does that have to be with Turkish culture for god's sake? "Turks are culturally nationalist", that sounds... well, awkward is the mildest word I can use.
Now tell me. Who's POV?Ombudsee 18:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tedblack's addition about "Turk"

I'm removing the following addition made by Tedblack:

In the early Ottoman state (1259) the word Turk was used as a derogatory term for the lower classes by the ruling elite [1]

The source doesn't say that, at least not specifically about the "early" Ottoman period. As far as I know it may partly have been true for some later times. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In fact I had thought it was me who had reverted it - you beat me to it. "Turk" also meant Muslim in Europe. This is the academic etymology of the word "Turkey" - not the "history of the word "Turk"". That user is blatantly disrupting the article by adding false inflation figures, comparing the Turkish youth to the Nazis etc. Ted (or GreekWarrior or etc), if you have issues with Turks, please take it somewhere else. Thanks. Baristarim 18:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In which way does The Economist produce "false inflation figures"? Have you lost all measure of objectivity? I have added a new source that supports the use of the term "Turk" as a derogatory term for the lower classes. Baristarim stop spreading lies about me using other ids. Unlike you I maintain a single id: --Tedblack 18:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What part of this is hard to understand: " the inflation has dropped to 8.2% in 2005, and the unemployment rate to 10.3%" reffed by an accessible World Bank release [9]???? You are adding an unaccessible figure and expecting us to buy it in the light of this? Whatever :))) That section is for the academic etymology of the word "Turkey" - not the "history of the word "Turk"". Please cease your blatant disruption of that article and go do something more useful. Thanks. Baristarim 18:51, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The figure quoted by the World Bank release covers only the last year. For economic surveys of a country -- as any economist knows -- a more accurate figure is a five year average. I am sure there are years when any economy has outstanding macro figures (for example lets pick Greece GDP growth just before the 2004 Olympics); but to avoid the impact of short term measures (monetary tightening is a good example for Turkey) a five year average should be used. You should get used to constructive debate instead of unilaterally imposing aggressive edits. --Tedblack 10:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Listen Ted (or User:GreekWarrior or whatever).. this article has been carefully scrutinized from every angle possible and every info in there is reffed rock solid to the smallest date. Take your harassment of the article somewhere else please. Thanks. Baristarim 19:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep you fantasies about me using a false identity in your sick mind. God knows how many false ids you are using on a daily basis Baristarim or whatever you call yourself now. --Tedblack 13:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestions for the inclusion of a new paragraph on these trends have received fierce attacks by propagandists that seem to believe that such addition would distort the "truth". Baristarim is leading this assault and seems to believe that repeated assasinations and massive sales of Mein Kampf are side isssues that obstruct Turkey's march to political reform and human rights. It is all the more suprising then that the following article appeared today in Reuters: 


   12:50 02Feb2007 RTRS-UPDATE 1-Turk police probe TV images of Dink murder suspect
   By Paul de Bendern
   ANKARA, Feb 2 (Reuters) - Turkey launched an inquiry into footage showing a teenager charged
   with the murder of a Turkish-Armenian journalist posing with the Turkish flag and security
   officials after his arrest, police said on Friday. Hrant Dink was shot outside his Istanbul office
   on Jan.19.
   His funeral drew 100,000 mourners on to the streets in protest at the militant nationalism that
   apparently inspired his killer.
   A 17-year-old unemployed youth, Ogun Samast, has confessed to the murder.
   Turkey's leading television channels showed video footage of Samast posing in front of a Turkish
   flag, and holding another flag next to security officials dressed in paramilitary and regular
   police uniforms shortly after his arrest on Jan. 21. The Gendarmerie, Turkey's paramilitary
   police, denied reports the footage was shot at one of their offices in Samsun, the city where
   Samast was arrested after a nationwide manhunt. Media said the images suggested Samast was treated
   like a hero.
   "The pictures were shown on television in the evening (of Thursday) and inspectors will clarify  
   who took the pictures and why. We in the police will do everything necessary," national police
   spokesman Ismail Caliskan told a news conference. "Whoever is responsible will be given the 
   appropriate punishment."
   Dink, 52, had been a hate figure for ultra-nationalists because of his comments on the mass
   killing of Armenians on Turkish soil in 1915, still a highly sensitive issue in this European
   Union candidate country.
   Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan has already questioned whether the killing was the work of Turkey's
   so-called "deep state" -- code for shadowy ultra-nationalist elements in the security forces
   ready, if need be, to act outside the law.
   "What appears on the video is in itself not new for Turkey. The difference is that this time the
   media decided to publish it," said CNN Turk diplomatic editor Semih Idiz.
   "The implications of this scandal are enormous. It's too early to tell whether ministers will be
   fired."
   Eight people, at least seven of them from the Black Sea province of Trabzon, have been charged 
   over the murder.
   Authorities have been accused of failing to act on warnings that ultra-nationalists planned to
   murder Dink. Opposition parties have demanded the resignation of the interior minister.
   Last week, the interior ministry dismissed the police chief and governor of Trabzon and sent 
   prosecutors to investigate whether local authorities were at fault.
   Liberal newspaper Radikal editor-in-chief Ismet Berkan said the release of the video images was
   like killing Dink a second time. He said it showed extreme nationalism in Turkey was again on the 
   rise.
   Pressure is mounting on the government to crack down on ultra-nationalist groups, a tricky task in
   a year of presidential and parliamentary elections.
   (Additional reporting by Selcuk Gokoluk in Ankara)
   ((Editing by Robert Woodward; Ankara newsroom, +90 312 292 7012))
    Keywords: TURKEY DINK/INQUIRY

It could be just another case of anti-Turkish propaganda by Reuters but this article shows that ultra-nationalist radicalisation is not the isolated reaction of unemployed sociopaths but has institutional support and only recently it has begun to be questioned. How can Baristarim and his entourage insist that this relevant piece of fact is excluded ? --Tedblack 13:12, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This kind of nationalism is a new thing for Turkey but Europe has been experiencing it for more than two hundred centuries. This is a fact but we don't see info about such situations in European countries' Wikipedia articles. You have two choices, make it a big deal for every country and add a part about ultra nationalism to every article or keep the pattern and don't modify the article of Turkey too. Deliogul 17:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please try to understand my position Deliogul: I have no doubt in my mind that there is Greek nationalism. And I know from having lived in France, Germany, the UK and America that nationalist attitudes are quite prevalent. What is worth mention, however, is the deadly face of nationalism, when people go to jail or are murdered for being anti-Greek, or anti-English or anti-whatever. If you have such examples from Greece or other european countries I would agree that they should be included. --Tedblack 17:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

economy of turkey

I wanted to make changes to the economy section, but the article is protected. In the paragraph it says: One of the biggest economic problems faced by Turkey is the distribution of wealth among the populace. This is a political problem, not an economic problem. Furthermore, the wording seems to imply income inequality in itself causes people to be poor. I find this hard to believe, and this is WP:OR assertion. PerLund 02:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hear, hear PerLund. The author of this article wants to underplay the real issue: the deprivation and poverty of Anatolia living side-by-side with a prosperous Instanbul. Income inequality is an ideological issue and does not make Turkey a special case; the US has a high income inequality but that is a political issue that does not affect its impressive economic performance. What makes Turkey a special case are the stark conditions of its Anatolian part that give rise to the high poverty rate mentioned (it took a long drawn battle to convince the Baristarim to include it).--Tedblack 12:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4094873.stm. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Turkey&oldid=106141461"