Talk:Musical comedy

Merge?

I'm not sure if this article is a good idea. It just duplicates the "development of the musical" section of the main musical theatre article and doesn't really add anything. Plus, it's very incomplete, ending at the turn of the 20th century. Whenever we improve the main article, someone will need to update this article. Plus, the question of which links go where is probably a mess now. -- Ssilvers 02:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since no one responded, and since there was no significant content in this article that was not already contained in the main article on Musical theatre, I merged this article back in. If anyone disagrees, please discuss on the talk page for musical theatre. It seems to me, however, that it would be difficult to create an article on musical comedy that would not have to be duplicated, by necessity, in the musical theatre article. I also note that the editor who originally split the article did not investigate the links to see if they were pointing correctly. Best regards, Ssilvers 01:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the merging of 'Musical Comedy' under 'Musical Theatre'

I recently discovered the Wikipedia genre Musical Comedy while researching this subject.

Unfortunately, the phrase appears to have been misconstrued by some people here and I have started this topic to clear up misunderstandings. As I discovered, 'Musical comedy' is being used as a descriptor for works of the musical theatre genre that are comedic in nature. However, the phrase is more indicative of any kind of comedy that involves music as a strong theme.

I can understand fully how an individual who has a passion for 'Musicals' might want to use the descriptor 'musical comedy' for comedic musicals, but in fact the term is incorrectly applied here and should rightly be called (for the musical theatre genre) 'Comedic Musical' or 'Musical (Comedic)' to rightly describe what they perceive. It is a question of language use - to use 'Musical comedy' in this sense, as a noun, is simply not correct English.

To elaborate, 'musical comedy' need not be occurring in a theatre environment. Entertainers who use music as a main theme throughout their shows, such as Bill Bailey in England, perform musical comedy - comedy that uses music. The mockumentary 'This Is Spinal Tap' is also an example of musical comedy, i.e. a comedy that has a musical theme. However there is no correlation with either of these last two examples and the world of theatre.

So when we ask the question: "Is musical comedy a comedic musical or comedy with a musical theme?" both are in a sense correct but proper usage of English leans toward the latter.

I invite others to comment on this and lend their opinions, and propose that what certain users adapt either 'Musical (comedy)' or 'Comedic Musical' henceforth. -- Puddingsan (talk) 09:59, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You do not seem to have any WP:Reliable sources to back up your assertions. Here is a dictionary definition: A play or movie in which singing and dancing are an important part of a humorous romantic story. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:17, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Play or movie in your quoted definition does not really support your argument. Movies and live stage shows do not come under the heading of musical theater. I do hope you see the common sense here ... I do realise you are a theater-oriented person, but I do maintain that musical comedy can come in many forms, not just a comedic musical. Puddingsan (talk) 20:53, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

An interesting view. I don't think I ever met it before. The present usage seems to me to cover what I think most readers would take the term to mean, though it is stimulating to see a novel interpretion, even if one doesn't agree with it. It wouldn't, frankly, be helpful to our readers to stretch the term "musical comedy" from its normal meaning to embrace works that are of other genres but are comic and musical such as a Victor Borge show or Wagner's Die Meistersinger. They are musical and they are comedy, but they are not musical comedy. This is what the Oxford English Dictionary has to say: "Musical comedy: A comic drama consisting of dialogue, songs, and dancing. The term is not normally applied to operas or operettas although the modern musical comedy derives from the operettas of the late 19th cent., which it originally resembled closely in terms of plot and musical idiom". Tim riley talk 21:44, 13 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well clearly we have a dispute about language and terminology and I am not convinced that the sources quoted are in themselves correct. Nobody has said that my argument is flawed, so I think the best thing to do would be to refer this matter to a higher authority and / or independent arbitration by senior contributors. I will be happy to abide by their decision. Puddingsan (talk) 19:19, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Puddingsan, the plain fact of the matter is that comedy plus music, or music that is comedic, is not "musical comedy". Musical comedy is a specific genre, specifically a subset of musical theatre, which is why the page redirects to that article. Please see [1]. I see no reason to prolong this discussion when the references are in unanimous agreement, and Puddingsan has not provided any WP:RS to the contrary. Softlavender (talk) 13:10, 8 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]